Hm . I can see the argument that fate doesn ' t apply in a neutral universe . It ' s kind of like a preexisting buff on the Aesir , though , so your argument is similar to stating that characters lose all buffs when entering a neutral universe not at all unreasonable , but I don ' t know if that ' s generally assumed as default . Again , it ' s kind of like the fact that Aoko has replaced herself with her future self at one point , thus locking the timeline to ensure that she can ' t die until ten years have passed . Do we say that she can be killed in a neutral universe even by people who can ' t override that effect ? That would still fuck up the timeline in the Nasuverse since she won ' t be able to go back after her death , and the Nasuverse has mechanics which prevent time paradoxes . I ' m not arguing it either way , just giving a concrete example for comparison to the Ragnarok effect I ' m personally not sure at all whether or not it ' s fair to include that Aoko effect , but it is a legit part of her character in her own universe , so it does feel weird to ignore it . Or , regarding the fact that it ' s a buff from outside sources , it ' s like Caine ' s Mark of God reflecting all damage dealt to Caine , in White Wolf ' s World of Darkness . It ' s a curse that God has placed on Caine , so it ' s help from an outside source , but much like the Ragnarok effect it ' s not something that requires ongoing input from God . It ' s a preexisting buff that was placed once and sticks there without God ' s input , just as the Norns don ' t need to interfere directly to ensure that Ragnarok happens . This part I feel is a lot more unfair to exclude , so I do strongly disagree with your argument on this front . I mean , we accept that DD spellcasters have all their powers in a neutral universe , but that requires ONGOING help from outside sources since spellcasters simply call upon the powers of their deities when casting things . Even arcane spellcasters use Mystra , the goddess of magic . A onetime effect shouldn ' t be a problem at all . EDIT By the way , just as a reminder , this is really only a point I ' m trying to clear up in order to figure out how future problems like this should go . In the case of the Aesir , I don ' t think this really matters much , for the reason I noted earlier Hel can always let them back into the real world , so their deaths are irrelevant . A fight in a neutral universe can ' t generally destroy Hel ' s realm , so the only thing that could possibly be a problem regarding the Ragnarok effect would be destroying their souls entirely .