I am being ahistoric , because we ' re not talking about history , we ' re talking about theoryI ' m trying to talk about the reality of a capitalist system we live in , if you have to disconnect yourself from reality in order to justify capitalism then I think that says a thing or two about your philosophy . And land being communally owned is not an awkward fact to me at all , in fact it ' s not even relevant . Most of all human history has been like this and it ' s not even relevant . All we ' re talking about is whether or not there ' s a fundamental difference in ownership between somebody continuing to impart their labor onto property and somebody who once imparted their labor on it . And this is what is then used to justify the current capitalist society , which is where my biggest problem stems from . given the starting point of labor theory of property . I ' m not goign to work from the starting point of the theory of property I ' m going to work from the starting point of reality . This is exactly what I was talking about in the first post , assuming what you are trying to prove .