This happens on other products as well . May not be related yet . Time will tell . <| sep |> I don ' t get it , Cherenkov a tons of turkeys in Australia <| sep |> It may have been 14 feet but the curve was incredibly easy . I don ' t think anyone had a problem with it . <| sep |> I agree with another poster who said this is a tough subject , so I ' m going to approach it with caution . The only stoic text I ' ve read so far is the Enchirideon . I can give you the advice Epictetus would have on the subject , along with my own experience . My own experience is that stoicism doesn ' t require me to forgive anybody . To me , forgiveness to feel that someone has hurt me , but to love them anyway . I have never been able to do that . The Enchirideon chapter 31 , gave me the words to explain why I haven ' t been able to do it . It says , It is impractical , then , that one who supposes himself to be hurt should rejoice in the person who , as he thinks , hurts him just as it is impossible to rejoice in the hurt itself . So stoicism doesn ' t demand that a person be able to love someone despite the pain they have inflicted . Instead , stoicism does something different . It gives you permission to not care , not even in the slightest , about things beyond your control . Do you know how freeing it is to not care at all if someone lives or dies , if they are happy or angry , if I love them or if they hurt me ? With this mindset , I ' ve been able to deal tolerably with people who I was formerly classifying as enemies . I didn ' t ' forgive ' them in the sense of generously glossing over the fact that they did something bad to me . Instead , I stoically redefined the world so that anything out of my direct , total control is neither good , nor evil , but just something that is possible in the world I live in . That being said , I don ' t pretend that the actions they took don ' t cause me to take precautions against them happening again . If I am hiking in the woods , and step on a bear trap , you can bet that if I go hiking in the woods I will be poking a stick before me to spring bear traps before they get my leg . It ' s stoically ok to take measures to limit your exposure to the human equivalent of bear traps , just as it ' s stoically ok to not blame yourself if those measures fail , because you can only control the measures you take , not that of other people . To directly answer your question at what point do you forgive them or let them go , I like to use this short pixar movie for an analogy . 9 yOxx 4 oOMsThe cloud in the movie is , with the best of intentions , hurting the bird that serves him . After tolerating it to the point where he ' s beaten black and blue , the bird flies off . The cloud thinks he ' s been abandoned . But that ' s not the case the bird comes back wearing body armor . That body armor is a reasonable way to salvage the relationship . The bird took measures to protect himself , and the cloud was happy that the bird found a way to maintain their relationship . This is a relationship that can be maintained . Now , if the cloud were offended that the bird would need body armor in the first place , that is not a relationship that can be maintained . Stoicism does not require that you live in someone else ' s fantasy world in order to relate to them .