Pretty sure I heard the same thing in gastown <| sep |> Jaa , sauberer in einigen Sinnen , aber massenweise Atommll in der Nordsee ist auch nicht so cool . Das Zeug muss schlielich irgendwo hin . Ich hab grad berlegt , ob man nicht Atommll in Glas einschlieen knnte und prompt herausgefunden , dass man das seit 2005 macht . Interessant . 1 . 92276 <| sep |> It ' s a hurdle that once you decide to clear , against your initial instincts , there ' s rarely other options as satisfying in game . The first time I was truly ganked I was with 3 other equally shitty pilots , and SDC anchored in 7 on us following an interdiction . The 4 of us thought we were good . We ' d all soloed wings of 5 NPC condas we were the real deal . And we all got our asses handed to us in that fight in spectacular fashion . None of us understood how the hell they ' d done it so well . 16 months later I can see our vectors were awful , our communication nonexistant , I can see which modules they sniped on which ship and why , where the focus went and why , the builds we were using that had never really needed to think about optimization because bots are so forgiving , and the aspects of piloting that just never really needed to be thought about vs . bots , etc . I was pissed off and so were my wingmates . Those 3 basically wrote off pvp after that . Avoiding it is just so tempting in that moment . I didn ' t , and it was initially a slightly painful and ego wrenching process . But now it ' s really the truest fun available in game . Why ? Because there ' s actually a great community . One that teaches the merits of a thick skin and trains to take a towel whip to the nuts in style . People on the outside look at groups like SDC as angst ridden teenage shit pilots who just coordinate stacked odds . It ' s wildly untrue . The focus is competitive and worthy pvp . Stop in GCI ' s discord and you ' ll see these nefarious sorts alongside aa , ctrl , rng etc guys taking their time to provide evals on boring ass 15 minute vids of new guys asking for pvp help . That ' s pretty damn friendly when you think about it . They ' re answering questions about their builds . And once you show you have adequate intelligence and can take a good hit to the crotch the community basically rallies behind you . And they all have great fun murdering each other over and over and over . But it ' s entirely about challenge for most of the community I ' m talking about . For me personally it ' s the only option for a challenge that ' s not utterly contrived . Your practice is rewarded , and it ' s not until you ' ve spent a long time doing it that you can quantify the changes in your piloting , where you stand , and what you have to look up to . That understanding just continually grows and you realize , wow , there ' s no real ceiling to this . You don ' t just git gud in a month and get to hang with the top rung . With pve , that bar is surprisingly static . A lot of folks that write off pvp at that first negative just never really open up their ego to acknowledging this difference . And the forum community and culture just runs rampant in the effort to discredit the entirety of pvp . The cultures have become so inherently polarized due to the structure of the game . In a generic scenario it starts with a pvp ' er looking for a good fight . Someone logs on him . His communication becomes less forgiving . Forum posts are made and a surge of antigriefing cries come to the support of someone he killed , who wasn ' t quite as combat fit as he ' d assumed given rank , ship , and subtargets . Insults are thrown in both directions by an increasingly polarized community . He eventually comes to assume that everyone outside the pvp circle is a complete POS that gains power through the forums alone and furthermore can live in a protected state of private mode . Kill ' em all and laugh at the forum posts . Right ? This is simplified and only one angle of thought admittedly but it ' s kinda what the game has created . I don ' t go for the station ganks . I rarely go for someone that ' s just not into pvp . I basically just try to figure out where pvp ' ers are gathering and go there to look for solid fights . And I surround myself with guys that basically have the same focus keep on getting better , accept the hardest challenges you can , learn from them , die gracefully , and hopefully put up a good showing to the wings you know are the best when events like the league crop up . PVE aspects of the game are good . I have fun doing them . But personal growth in those areas are internal to the individual , protected , and because they don ' t lack the vulnerability of putting yourself out there in a test against all takers the achievement is often hollow . Cool story . ikr