I still remember my C 64 lightpen fondly . I used to move sprites around the TV from my couch . <| sep |> I ' ve been trading HRTX this way all year . Sell 17 . 50 puts for between 1 . 50 to 3 . Have them either expire worthless and keep premium or take assignment and sell call on your stock at 20 It ' s worked all year . I expect the trading channel to move from 15 to 20 up to 20 to 25 in Jan due to dataAnother one you can do this with is itek <| sep |> My family is from Newfoundland and there is a Viking village that main stream science still has issues accepting . <| sep |> Where did I ever imply that ? Read before you post . <| sep |> The 144 , 000 are from the nation and tribes of Israel . Im facepalming harder then I ever have before . Nobody before Jesus was anointed . There are anointed people alive today . They are from different nations , speak different languages . David wasn ' t anointed ? Samuel wasn ' t anointed ? Jeremiah wasn ' t anointed ? Isaiah wasn ' t anointed ? Moses wasn ' t anointed ? Joshua wasn ' t anointed ? I could go on and about who were anointed . And it seems that you don ' t know who the great crowd is . The Great Crowd is EVERYONE BUT THE 144 , 000 . Revelation chapter 7 refers to them as TWO SEPERATE ENTITIESLol , I think I stated that when I said the great crowd are from all the tribes and nations and the 144 , 000 are from Israel and their tribes . The 144 , 000 aren ' t the 24 elders either I feel like this proves that they are the same fairly wellIn ancient Israel , older men of Israel represented and spoke for the entire nation . Ex 316 197 In the same way elders may stand for , or represent , the entire congregation of spiritual Israel . Therefore , the 24 elders seated on thrones about God might well represent the entire body of anointed Christians who , proving faithful till death , receive the promised reward of a heavenly resurrection and thrones near that of Jehovah . Re 321 The number 24 is also significant , for this was the number of the divisions into which King David organized the priests to serve at Jerusalem ' s temple . The anointed Christians are to be a royal priesthood . NO context is given to determine the identity of the 24 elders . NONE and here your organization comes out the blue with Oh hey , they are representatives of the 144 , 000 ! You cannot accurately attribute any title to the 24 elders because we aren ' t given a background context . Period . You ' re really goig beyond what ' s written now . And even if the 144 , 000 aren ' t the 24 Elders , then why are they there . To stand there and sing forever ? I doesn ' t make sense . The 144 , 000 being the 24 elders is the only logical answerWhat ' s the purpose of the four living creatures ? To stand there and give praise to God forever ? How illogical ! sThe 24 Elders are indeed rulers under godRevelation 1116 And the 24 elders who were seated before God on their thrones fell upon their faces and worshipped GodI said the 24 elders aren ' t seen ruling the Great Crowd . Nor are they seen as the 144 , 000 or represenatives . Sleep is a form of unconsciousness of an altered state . Unconsciousness is when you don ' t respond to any stimuli that may be given to you , however sleep is an altered state of consious because those who are asleep can be mentally aware of sounds , time , light , position , movement etc . Still doesn ' t prove that dead people can suffer eternal tormentROFL , that ' s what your rebuttal has been reduced to . Not giving any formal rebuttal that ' s pertinent to the forstated matter . So here is a question I bet you want me to adress If the 144 , 000 is the 24 Elders , how can they sing before them ? How can the 144 , 000 sing before theelders , since the 24 elders are the 144 , 000 intheir glorious heavenly position ? Early inthe Lord ' s day , those dead in union withChrist were resurrected as spirit creatures . Thus , faithful anointed Christians who haveconquered are now in heaven , symbolicallyfulfilling functions comparable to those of 24 divisions of priestly elders . They are included in the vision of Jehovah ' s heavenly organization . 1 Thessalonians 415 , 161 Chronicles 24118 Revelation 44 611 The remnant of the 144 , 000 still on earth aretherefore singing the new song before , or inthe sight of , their resurrected brothers inheaven . Oh that is RICH ! First they say 24 elders are spiritual Israel without any context , then they say the remnant of the 144 , 000 are singing the new song on earth ! ? In order for that all to be true , you must find one verse that says some Christians go to Heaven , and some do not . Name one verse that says Only 144 , 000 will go to Heaven and the rest will be ruled by them .