Home » Uncategorized » Assange Must Not Also Die in Jail
Assange Must Not Also Die in Jail 303
August 13, 2019 in Uncategorized by craig
The highly dubious death of Jeffrey Epstein in a US maximum security prison is another strong reason not to extradite Julian Assange into one – particularly as many of the same people who are relieved by Epstein's death would like to see Assange dead too.
But there is every reason to fear Assange is already in danger, in Belmarsh maximum security prison, where he is currently incarcerated. As the great journalist John Pilger tweeted six days ago:
Do not forget Julian #Assange. Or you will lose him.
I saw him in Belmarsh prison and his health has deteriorated. Treated worse than a murderer, he is isolated, medicated and denied the tools to fight the bogus charges of US extradition. I now fear for him. Do not forget him.
There is no official explanation as to why Julian's health has continued to deteriorate so alarmingly in Belmarsh. Nobody genuinely believes him to be a violent danger, so there is absolutely no call for him to be imprisoned in the facility which houses the hardcore terrorist cases.
Assange is fighting major legal cases in the UK, Sweden and the United States, yet is permitted visitors for only two hours per fortnight, inclusive of time spent with his three sets of lawyers. All of his visitors have been alarmed by his state of physical health and many have been alarmed by his apparent disorientation and confusion.
It is because of Assange's draconian one year sentence for "bail-jumping" on claiming political asylum that he can be kept in such harsh conditions and with so little access to his lawyers. That is why his sentence was so unprecedentedly stiff for missing police bail. Otherwise, as a remand prisoner awaiting extradition hearing his conditions would ordinarily be less harsh and his access to lawyers much better. The Establishment has conspired to reduce his ability to defend himself in court. I am not convinced it is not conspiring to destroy him.
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303 thoughts on "Assange Must Not Also Die in Jail"
Patricia Wheeler August 14, 2019 at 10:15
The UK has no legal or political reason for keeping Assange, apart from slavish compliance with US priorities. I think a good case could be made for getting him out of Belmarsh and repatriating him to Australia.
Sharp Ears August 14, 2019 at 10:37
Who are these creeps/weirdos? The Cult of the Dead Cow. Any of them coming on here? Note Cloud. IQ Ltd.**
'The Black Hat conference in Las Vegas reunited three important figures in the history of famed 35-year-old hacking group Cult of the Dead Cow (cDc), including one member who made his first-ever appearance under his actual name. But the real name-dropping began when the group members shared their thoughts on another former member, Democratic presidential candidate Beto O'Rourke – as well as WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange.
"I thought the original stated goal of WikiLeaks was a laudable one. I think it quickly became a personal… ego trip" for founder Assange, said Luke Benfey, who used the occasion of Black Hat to publicly acknowledge that he is the former cDc Minister of Propaganda "Deth Veggie." (He now is head of operations at London-based e-commerce engagement platform provider Cloud.IQ Ltd.
Assange, who in his teens formed his own hacking group, the International Subversives, has long carried the reputation among the hacker community of being an "a**hole," Benfey stated bluntly. At least, for a time, he was "doing something good," but no longer, Benfey continued.'
https://www.scmagazine.com/home/security-news/historic-hacking-group-members-dish-on-julian-assange-beto-orourke/
** https://www.cloud-iq.com/about-us
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Hat_Briefings
https://www.crunchbase.com/person/luke-benfey#section-recent-news-and-activity
Who employs them? How do they make their living?
Rowan Berkeley August 14, 2019 at 12:21
Don't worry, Sharp Ears:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_the_Dead_Cow
Peter N August 14, 2019 at 13:17
Assange isn't in a fit state to stand trial anywhere. For those that missed it the following fairly recent interview by Chris Hedges of Nils Melzer, UN special rapporteur on torture, is utterly eye-opening on what was and is being done to Assange. Melzer gives some detail on what two medical doctors, one a psychiatrist, both with extensive experience of dealing with people subjected to torture, made of Assange when they visited him along with Melzer. Everyone should watch it.
https://www.rt.com/shows/on-contact/461420-julian-assange-prison-torture/
Rafferty August 14, 2019 at 18:11
Thanks very much for this post. How sad it is that we have to resort to getting this information from FT as no-one in UK mainstream media has the credibilty to publish anything like this.
Tom Welsh August 14, 2019 at 20:36
RT, not FT.
I wouldn't mention it, but there is an important difference.
Sackerson August 14, 2019 at 14:54
Republicofscotland August 14, 2019 at 15:36
Assange has no propensity towards violence, request a independent doctor visits him in prison, and if Assange's health has deteriorated as much as we think, then a request to have him moved to a hospital other than Belmarsh's facility should be ask for.
I doubt though they'd agree to that, revealing the war crimes of Britain and the US, means your treatment behind bars will be at the least very uncomfortable.
Most Brits/American's don't really care what their countries are up to, others probably care but feel hamstrung as to what action can be taken.
If the Great Satan wants Assange they'll get him, the British government will make sure of that.
John2o2o August 14, 2019 at 17:05
Sackerson, you can also try writing to Julian.
https://writejulian.com/
I wrote to Julian about 2 weeks ago. My letter was short and I tried to be encouraging.
Maybe my letter will make no difference at all, but on the other hand it might make a bit of a difference.
Others like yourself might write better letters. Personally, I think it's worth taking the half hour or so to do it.
Borncynical August 14, 2019 at 17:54
John2o2o
I sent him a letter today. As you, I felt it appropriate to keep it relatively brief but compassionate. I simply stressed that he should be assured that there are many people out here who remain extremely concerned and vocal about his plight, even if most politicians and the mainstream media choose to ignore it. I implored him to "never give up hope, and continue to battle on against all you encounter with the resilience and determination that you have bravely demonstrated thus far." I feel sure that letters of support must lift his spirits to some degree.
Brianfujisan August 14, 2019 at 18:36
Sackerson
Some tips on what to do here..including a few tips from Julian's mother Christine –
https://steemit.com/wikileaks/@elizbethleavos/actions-for-assange-ideas-and-examples-of-how-to-help?
michael norton August 14, 2019 at 19:26
Perhaps someone should write on Julian's behalf to Priti Patel?
giyane August 14, 2019 at 21:03
I doubt Patel was talking about murderers when she said she wanted them to feel terror about getting punished. She obviously meant that she wanted the whistleblowers on crime should feel terrified of getting punished. I'm not sure we should allow someone even to be home secretary when they have another Home in Israel and therefore another completely different set of loyalties.
The last 30 years have been spent softening up Israel's neighbours in the Middle East for the creation of a new Greater Israel. millions of Muslims have been promised money , land and power if they destroy the Middle East for Zionism. Islamism is Zionism and now it appears Britishness is Zionism and the best way to express your loyalty to Britain is to destroy for Israel.
To earn more brownie points the British imams stand up in the prayer and preach that Muslims should kill Christians as well as the Muslims they are already killing.
Logic tells us that if they are killing Muslims in the Middle East and Christians in Sri Lanka, the obvious being of worship is the elephant in the room. i.e. Patel's second Home.
Her secret meetings in Israel in 2017 about which she lied saying she had been on holiday.
Priti Patel returns to face uproar over Israel trip
Cabinet colleague says she is certain to be sacked over 'extraordinary' behaviour
https://www.ft.com/content/c7f278ac-c3c8-11e7-a1d2-6786f39ef675
Sacked? That's laugh. Now Home Secretary under Johnson as you say.
Ken Kenn August 14, 2019 at 22:54
From what I've read about Priti Patel some people think she should be in prison for Treason.
I'll settle for a prisoners swap – Patel for Assange.
Surely the media are aware ( but not letting on ) that three quartes of the current cabinet would have been swerved in the Commons Tea Rooms around four years ago?
Now they are in charge.
Latest from the Centrists :
Rather than carry out a vote of no confidence in the government they now want to pass the Withdrawal Agreement they voted against many times as a way to stop a No Deal Brexit.
Of course it is a way of stopping No Deal but also a way of stopping a Corbyn led government.
Fronted up by an MP who kept his job due to Labour's 2017 Manifesto.
Kinnock should be re-named Pillock.
they are all flapping around like young kids who just discovered the Deep End of the swimming pool.
It's goin to get worse between now and October the 31st.
Jo1 August 15, 2019 at 11:20
@Ken Kenn
Patel certainly committed treason. There is no other word to describe a serving minister who travels to a foreign country and holds private meetings with members of that country's government…. without the knowledge or permission of her own PM or government.
Thanks for this link, Brian. Can I stress to everyone thinking of writing to Julian that the guidance states that not only must the destination address be written precisely as specified, but the sender must also put their own full name and address on the back of the envelope OR ELSE IT WON'T BE DELIVERED. I cannot see why this should be deemed necessary other than to prevent Julian from receiving messages of support. I hadn't realised this so I shall resend a copy of my letter tomorrow.
Rose August 15, 2019 at 11:11
Thank you Brian.
As well as writing to Julian, I would also like to write to my MP to urge an immediate transfer to a proper hospital so that he can receive the necessary physical and mental care he desperately needs. How can we officially protest against the treatment being meted out right now when they are all off on their jolly hols – no doubt with lashings and lashings of ginger beer?
Writing and marching is all very well, but he is suffering at this very moment and that suffering must stop now.
Ros Thorpe August 15, 2019 at 20:49
That's a good question and I'm mulling the answer. I'm guessing lawyers are tying them in knots but public support is important to prevent dire consequences. I'd like to find out who the lawyers are and build a support base around them.
David August 14, 2019 at 17:05
DailyMail going for it like real journalists still on evil-Epstein the movie.
They claim to have linked Ghislaine Maxwell's current hiding place to a tech CEO who's coincidentally a member of the infamous US Council on Foreign Relations
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7352813/Ghislaine-Maxwell-consort-Jeffrey-Epstein-living-mansion-outside-Boston.html
CFR of course link back to exposé's by JA at Wikileaks…. small world
https://thefreethoughtproject.com/wikileaks-cfr-media-control/
more CFR & wikileaks at….
https://www.transcend.org/tms/2018/02/wikileaks-exposes-how-council-on-foreign-relations-controls-most-all-mainstream-media/
jmg August 14, 2019 at 17:33
It seems Julian won't go to Epstein's Manhattan jail. They have something different for him, unfortunately:
"His most likely destination is the 'Alcatraz of the Rockies,' otherwise known as the United States Penitentiary Administrative Maximum Facility, or ADMAX, in Florence, Colorado. Among its 400 inmates are Unabomber Ted Kaczynski, Boston Marathon terrorist Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, FBI agent-turned-Russian spy Robert Hanssen, and Oklahoma City co-bomber Terry Nichols. The prison's regime is as ruthless as its prisoners: 23-hour daily confinement in a concrete box cell with one window 4 inches wide, six bed checks a day with a seventh on weekends, one hour of exercise in an outdoor cage, showers spraying water in one-minute spurts and 'shakedowns' at the discretion of prison staff."
My Final Visit With Julian Assange — Charles Glass, American journalist
https://theintercept.com/2019/04/14/julian-assange-languishes-in-prison-as-his-journalistic-collaborators-brandish-their-prizes/
There is a similar case, Justin Liverman, charged with hacking conspiracy against CIA Director John Brennan. From a report:
"Like Assange, Liverman didn't do the hacking himself but encouraged it — and he got the maximum sentence of five years in 2017. Liverman's initial indictment was sealed in the Eastern District Court of Virginia, just like Assange's. Liverman is doing his time at Fort Dix in New Jersey."
Assange's initial indictment was only "conspiracy to commit computer intrusion" as well, and the Fort Dix federal prison is a low-security one. However, a second superseding indictment added 17 Espionage Act charges. Because of this, Assange is expected to probably spend the rest of his life in ADX Florence supermax prison in Colorado, according to Assange's friend American journalist Charles Glass, and also accoding to this other quoted report from Washington Examiner:
"Cartel leaders, terrorists, and traitors will be Julian Assange's fellow prisoners if federal prosecutors and intelligence chiefs have their way and he is incarcerated in America's most secure facility.
"Once he arrives on U.S. soil after he's extradited, the Australian-born WikiLeaks founder, 47, is likely to a slew of charges — including espionage — that would land him in prison for life. If convicted of such serious charges, Assange would almost certainly end up at the Supermax facility known ADX Florence in Colorado, in part because intelligence officials believe he represents a grave threat to the U.S. . . .
"Prisoners there are under constant surveillance, kept in near-isolation, and are locked in soundproof cells for 23 hours each day. . . .
"Few prisoners are released from the Supermax. One of those who did was Travis Dusenbury, who spent 10 years inside. Recalling his experience in 2016, he said: 'You're just shut off the world. You feel it. It sinks in, this dread feeling. … It's just the harshest place you've ever seen. Nothing living, not so much as a blade of grass anywhere.'"
Inside the Supermax prison that awaits Julian Assange
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/inside-the-supermax-prison-that-awaits-julian-assange
There is some hope for Julian to stop his US extradition, concerning the federal supermax prison for spies, terrorists, etc. where he is expected to be sent for life:
"Since 2007, the European Court of Human Rights has put a stay on the extradition of six men wanted on terrorism charges because of concerns about the treatment that would be in store for them at ADX."
US 'supermax' prison is condemned internationally for its abusive regime
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/sep/18/us-supermax-prison-international-opprobrium
The word "traitor", when used by the US government, denotes a decent person who wants to tell the truth about their filthy crimes. It should be considered a badge of honour.
It's a good thing that you have made the synergies between these case even though Assange has done nothing at all that even remotely aligns with this horrible creep's crimes. Assange really needs protection because the powers could easily decide that he's expendable. I hope they don't. Even Russia kept their dissidents alive. Are we worse than them?
pretzelattack August 14, 2019 at 20:22
looks like we are worse than them. we're certainly more warlike and aggressive, we have more prisoners, we claim the legal right to assassinate our own citizens.
I agree with Ros. There is also the element of hypocrisy, which the USA and the UK have taken to the level of a fine art.
Not hypocrisy, exceptionalism, which means one rule for us because we are better than you and another rule for all those who are actually better for not submitting themselves to the Pharaoh being God. What was the source of Pharaoh's power, astronomy by which he could predict the flooding of the Nile .
What is the source of the modern Pharaoh's power? The ability to destroy humanity by nuclear explosion and the ability to enslave society through their IT activity. All the nuclear states think they are impregnable without exception. Like the cartoon of Gove strapped down on the psychiatrist's couch with his hand over the No Deal release button.
I stand by "hypocrisy", although maybe I am just looking at a slightly different aspect of the matter.
n	noun (plural hypocrisies) the practice of claiming to have higher standards or more laudable beliefs than is the case.
Middle English: from Old French ypocrisie, via ecclesiastical Latin from Greek hupokrisis 'acting of a theatrical part', from hupokrinesthai 'play a part, pretend'.
Tatyana August 15, 2019 at 22:48
I'm appalled by the degree of racism in your statement "even Russia…are we worse than them?"
Either you directly say that Russia is the shame of the humankind, or my knowledge of English fails me?
Most of us on the blog want you here..
Thanks. I am always happy to support an interesting and informative dialogue and to provide the opinion of a russian person and I'm pleased that there are people on here who are interested in reading it.
Jonathan McNabb August 16, 2019 at 08:50
I find your contributions very informative.
Ingwe August 16, 2019 at 10:45
Tatyana, it was a stupid post, probably made without any thought to the offensive generalisation.
We are very fortunate to have the benefit of your Russian perspectives on here Tatyana. It is uncommon to find a Russian person who has both an excellent command of the English language and a strong understanding of the issues of importance in the world.
Patricia Ormsby August 16, 2019 at 13:08
Tatyana, I love Russia. But for half of my relatives in America (the half that identifies with the so-called left), it doesn't matter that I learned the language, read the literature and spent a total of about a year there, the MSM is the source of the Truth and I'm a traitor for questioning it. Because I like Russia, to them I am also a racist. America has gone stark raving mad. The whole yardstick has become that Russia is the world's worst dictatorship, and furthermore, that it is taking joy at getting us Americans to fight each other. Three years ago, I couldn't imagine that this kind of insanity would befall America.
Patricia, I've mentioned earlier that this summer I met with my close friend, who migrated to the USA about 20 years ago.
What is interesting about her, she loved the feeling of being 'privileged' from our childhood days. This feeling naturally developed from the jobs her parents got in our semi-rural small provincial town. Now she feels 'privileged' to be a US housewife, living in the best country in the wold and to be a part of the exceptional nation 🙂 She is so stuck on this her feeling that she immediately attributes everything bad to Russia (she uses despiteful 'Rushka').
Here is an illustration: she complained about she cannot access her Amazon account from Russia. She explained this fact 'Rushka is such an uncivilised dreadful country, that Amazon banned it'. sic!
I tried to tell her it is account security tool, but she didn't believe me. I adviced to turn on two-factor authentication – she even didn't understand what I'm talking about. Well, she was never a tech-savvy person.
I told her that she is wrong, I'm Amazon seller for some years and never had troubles with logging into my seller account. This time she admitted that she might be a bit wrong in her opinion 🙂 and immediately asked how people risk to buy something from me when delivery time is so long, 35+ days. I answered that I'm not sure for what reason Mr. Jeff Bezos indicates such a long delivery time on his marketplace. In fact the packages reach EU customers in 10-14 days and US customers in 14-17 days.
Now I wonder what will she tell to her US friends about Russia? As russian migrant she must be believed an expert, I think. Will she tell them that she was wrong and prejudiced? I guess, no. Russophobia is new legal rasism. Regretful, but certain part of any society needs an 'alien threat' to feel united, and 'barbarians there' to feel privileged.
To talk how awful Russia is – it is new pattern of social activity. Like monkeys groom each other not really looking for insects, but it is their way of being social. The same with Russophobia, nobody cares of true facts. Sh*tting on Russia is just a new manner to be social.
If you could read russian forums where people discuss methods to get western citizenships, you'd be apalled! They choose what is better to say to surely get citizenship. They are ready to say they are gay, they are banned religion, they are Putin haters ets.
Back to my friend. She despites Russia, but it doesn't prevent her from taking money in russian social system. I'm sure if Russian state could offer fatter bone higher living standard than US state, she would turn very pro-russian.
Money make principles flexible.
Kempe August 16, 2019 at 12:33
He was using the past tense and I think meant Soviet Union rather than Russia.
I've said already, that your sources of information about Russia is outdated and biased. People who visited Russia some 20, 30, 40 years ago. Perhaps minor changes in the UK, the same queen, the same prince, the same House of Lords 🙂 But in Russia … I've got news for you. Stalin is dead, USSR does not exist along with the communist ideology.
You may think that gay people are murdered in Russia, that we have no freedoms etc. but please check if you hear this from ex-ussr migrants. Because in their forums they say it is surefire way to get citizenship is to say something in Russia threatens their lifes.
Also please check if it is some silly housewife spreading her flat out wrong words about Russia.
And a hint from me. When we come across western people telling lies about Russia we do not get angry, we have a good laugh at you, we mock you and we make memes 🙂 because absurdity is funny.
"Are we worse than them?"
I presume you are referring here to the government of the Soviet Union (USSR), which dissolved peacefully in 1991?
During the Cold War we in the West were subject to a great deal of anti-Russian propaganda by our governments. It is worth remembering this. We were taught to fear them. I now believe that much (if not all) of what we were told about Russia and Russians was untrue.
I certainly believe our government is "worse" than any Soviet era government in Russia, except perhaps for that under Stalin who was the father of the Gulag system.
In my limited experience Russians are a generous and warmhearted people whose desire is for world peace and not world domination.
We are neither worse, no better, John. We are just the same. 140 millions of different russian people. There are kind and evil, generous and greedy and everything. Most of us want peace.
But some say that you can get much further with a Kind Word and a Gun than with a Kind Word …
No, I do think that the average Russian is probably nicer than for example the average American.
Russians on average are less money orientated and less vain than Americans – in my opinion. Russia has a less violent culture. You seem a more genuine and honest people to me. I really do believe that, and I have thought so for a good while now. I am not saying that you do not have the same good and bad points as people in any other country and that all Russians are good. I know that is not so.
I don't think guns achieve much to be honest. Death and misery are not achievements worth celebrating. And Gandhi liberated the whole of India without one. I always prefer kind words.
Peter August 14, 2019 at 21:20
"Treated worse than a murderer, he is isolated, medicated and denied the tools to fight the bogus charges of US extradition."
No doubt many will have already tried with little or no success but from whom can/should we demand an explanation for this and to whom do we complain about it?
Is there a petition, there should be?
Ah, ok:
Free Julian Assange (almost 170,000):
https://www.change.org/p/free-julian-assange-before-it-s-too-late-stop-usa-extradition
End Julian Assange's isolation (116,000+):
https://www.change.org/p/end-julian-assange-s-isolation
Don't extradite Assange! (Almost 93,000):
https://internal.diem25.org/petitions/1
And there are, of course, others. Just Google it, who'd have thought … ?
Ron August 14, 2019 at 23:34
It seems that the above petitions are very old and do not currently target the UK Government (the UK Government had previously rejected a petition, in April 2019, saying that they could not interfere in a legal process – we believe them of course).
So it appears that at present nobody is actively pursuing the fact that, following Epstein's death while in US custody, the UK Government should not be considering extraditing anyone to a country that cannot guarantee the life/safety of the extraditee.
Is it not possible that someone from Julian's legal team could draft a petition to change.org that will not be knocked back so easily and end up being debated in the House of Commons.
Tony_0pmoc August 14, 2019 at 22:17
Even the comments are too hard to read. The Western World even England has gone mad.
When we lose justice and integrity, we lose everything.
We in England controlled by The USA are treating Julian Assange even worse than the Soviet Union treated Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn.
I never thought we could come to this, not in my lifetime.
Has anyone any ideas re solving this problem?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Solzhenitsyn
" Russian novelist, historian, and short story writer.[6] He was an outspoken critic of the Soviet Union and communism and helped to raise global awareness of its Gulag forced labor camp system. He was allowed to publish only one work in the Soviet Union, One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich (1962), in the periodical Novy Mir. After this he had to publish in the West, most notably Cancer Ward (1968), August 1914 (1971), and The Gulag Archipelago (1973). Solzhenitsyn was awarded the 1970 Nobel Prize in Literature "for the ethical force with which he has pursued the indispensable traditions of Russian literature".[7] Solzhenitsyn was afraid to go to Stockholm to receive his award for fear that he would not be allowed to reenter. He was eventually expelled from the Soviet Union in 1974, but returned to Russia in 1994 after the state's dissolution. "
Hatuey August 15, 2019 at 01:00
Someone should be trying to galvanise support from journalists, journalist unions like the NUJ, and others in News industry, in order to establish that what Assange is being accused of is just basic journalism.
That's his only defence.
bevin August 15, 2019 at 02:04
The public must be mobilised. Neither Journalists, journalists unions nor the "News Industry" can or will help Assange.
The obvious course and one which it would be easy enough to organise is to hold a Teach In on "Julian Assange, Wikileaks and holding the State to account."
It should be held in September in one of the many University of London lecture halls. John Pilger, Craig Murray and many others, Chris Williamson perhaps should be on the panel of speakers. Such an event would publicise itself.
All it needs is for a group of people to get together and do it. I remember the Vietnam War Teach Ins: they galvanised important and influential layers of public opinion.
Relying on the enemy-the capitalist media- to defend principals in the struggle against imperialism by appealing to their sense of fair play is almost ghoulish in its ineffectiveness.
Mobilise young people and Assange will never be extradited. From a distance it is difficult to conceive of a political class so depraved that it can seriously contemplate extradition; and then we look at The Guardian and the BBC and the depths of the Establishment's prostitution become apparent.
A government that smiles merrily as IDF snipers pick off infants in Gaza is unlikely to be fazed by charges of complicity in war crimes and kowtowing to Washington. What enables it to do such things is public apathy, mingled with the smokescreens put up by Identity Politicians, particularly those who hold a torn condom to be of more importance than the deliberate murder of a crowd in Baghdad.
Agree with all of that Bevin.. Great Ideas. your Idea of Speakers is spot on too
Wikileaks Editor in Chief – Kristinn Hrafnsson, Talks about the Public being lied to.. At Doune the Rabbit Hole Fest –
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpPqGCqX-pQ&t=90s
Thanks Brian and Bevin. Kristinn is a good man. His goodness radiates from him.
I watched it through to the end but the view counter stayed at 207. Are YT figures being manipulated ?
Here is Craig at DTRH
https://youtu.be/1Hln8k3_Y_o
nevermind August 15, 2019 at 08:46
Thanks for the ideas Bevin and Brian, Kristinn' s message was loud and clear and it was amplified this morning on the BBC, amplifying multiple attacks from power addicts such as Swinson and tearing at Labour for daring to put a no confidence motion to Parliament, proposing a caretaker Government and swift GE.
With haradins and establishment operators manipulating us into a no deal chaos, we will become fodder to Bolton and Trump? With no fall back position.
What if Corbyn proposes PR via a law and for all elections, and then joins XR in a massive tree planting action?
N_ August 15, 2019 at 09:20
I suspect what will happen is that Boris Johnson will lose a vote of confidence and then pull the rug by proposing a general election, and that he will easily get a two-thirds Commons majority in favour of it. There's nothing to stop a vote on such a proposal being held during the 14-day period after a successful VONC. Never mind what the Liberal Democrats or the Greens are piffling on about. Johnson could even stand up immediately the result of the VONC is announced and say "Let's have a people's election – and sure it can be before 31 October! That's no problem for me, punks, because we're gonna smash all you collaborators, whingers, politically correct all-colours-of-the-rainbow extremist remainist types, half of you with bombs under your coats, once and for all."
The drift in the Tory media including the BBC is towards this.
There may well also be a son-of-Novichok or a son-of-Batalan or both, as a page is taken out of Hermann Göring's book:
@Nevermind
I have no idea whether you are joking here. Even if you are, some people take that kind of idea seriously.
I say screw the Liberal Democrats and the Greens, don't run after them.
Babuška August 15, 2019 at 22:15
The view count is 235 when I watched Sharp Ears
yes excellent interview, although I'm not in your corner of the world, I do support the fight to free Julian Assange,sovereignty for Scotland and media freedom.
I would love to one day visit this wonderful festival.
Something else to consider bevin.
If the U.K. does end up Cliff Edge Brexiting out of the European Union, with very bad intent, presumably we also instantly end our relationship with any E.U. laws.
In this case any European laws, would no longer of be of use to Julian Assange, if he does not get out of prison untill Christmas?
The United Kingdom is to start preparing to remove itself from the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice as Boris Johnson stands firm on his "do or die" Brexit pledge.
J August 15, 2019 at 11:04
Sounds like an idea.
Optional thoughts: it would need a series of hooks which resonate, something which guarentees the press can't hide from it, such that by doing so they must further disgrace themselves. How could such a campaign be designed to really cost 'mainstream' media with their natural remaining audiences? A tall order by itself these days, but possible.
For examples, what if someone like Banksy produced and donated a large work on the theme, to be used as a backdrop, poster, flyer etc. And on a similar theme, what if some of those influential and respected public figures currently on the fence could be persuaded to get off. Approach them directly, present them with a tight argument, the facts, where we are, what's at stake, why it matters they stand up and be counted, what we all stand to gain from their participation, etc.
"The public must be mobilised… Mobilise young people…"
That's the equivalent of suggesting that in order to solve a problem, you recommend we solve the problem. It has a tautological symmetry to it, I'll grant you that.
Maybe we can mobilise the public and young people and sort out the Middle East, third world poverty, global warming, and put an end to war too… if it's that easy, why not?
The more grounded amongst you who happen to read this nonsense will understand my contention here — that mobilising the public is extremely unlikely, if not impossible, and that it would be much easier to "mobilise" (what a great word btw) a couple of hundred journalists around the world.
Thanks for lightening the mood.
" mobilising the public is extremely unlikely, if not impossible, and that it would be much easier to "mobilise" (what a great word btw) a couple of hundred journalists around the world."
No doubt it would be easier to mobilise 200 journalists around the world-the cost would be minimal. But what good would come of it? The only logical reason in influencing journalists is the hope that they, in turn, will influence the wider public. My point, which amuses you, is that journalists with pulpits are, for the most part already enrolled on the other side.
Or didn't you notice?
Thank you for darkening the mood with that cynicism which always accompanies apathy. And tyranny.
Bevin, you have yet to explain how you intend to mobilise the public. And since we all know it isn't going to happen, you needn't bother.
"The only logical reason in influencing journalists is the hope that they, in turn, will influence the wider public."
That wasn't my point at all. And as you stealthily admit, not all journalists fit the stereotype of being "enrolled on the other side" — that, btw, is more cynical than anything I suggested. There are plenty of good journalists out there, if you know where to look.
Julian Assange is a good example of how to motivate people, especially young people. He used to before the sneers and the character assassination. He's proof you're wrong. Every time a new Banksy goes up it's still (although barely) news. He's proof you're wrong too. Stephen Hawking motivates young people. Craig is inspiring and motivating to young people too. And so on.
J, the word used was "mobilised", not "motivate".
I have no idea what sort of kick someone might get out of talking so casually about mobilising the public, as if there's a button you press somewhere. I guess you enjoy making speeches and trying to sound like one of your historical heroes.
Has it occurred to you, though, that If you can't mobilise the public to save the planet and stop wars, not to mention a thousand other things that are arguably more important than the plight of Assange, it might not be as simple as you think?
Rhys Jaggar August 16, 2019 at 06:01
You are too cynical Hatuey.
30 years of 'mobilising journalists' did nothing for the victims of Child Sexual Abuse.
When a band of victims self-organised themselves into the Shirley Oaks Survivors Association and co-opted a few key heavyweights with relevant expertise, they logged their victim statements to standards set by former police officers and then took their grievances to Lambeth Council where they secured a multi-milion pound settlement.
'If you want something done properly, then do it yourself….'
Rhys, "30 years of 'mobilising journalists' did nothing for the victims of Child Sexual Abuse."
I'm not sure what you're referring to here. Maybe you can be more specific.
But, and this is important, the reason I suggested galvanising the support of journalists is because Assange himself was a journalist and I'm sure many other journalists would not only recognise that he was doing the sort of job they in theory ought to be doing routinely, but also recognise that it is in their self interest to speak out in his defence.
Moreover, I think if a bunch of journalists insist that Assange is a journalist then their collective opinion would go some way towards establishing the fact that Assange was acting in a journalistic capacity with regard to the leaks. If that needs further explanation then one of us is on the wrong forum.
Nevertheless, if 200 mechanics publicly attests to my ability and role as a mechanic, then that would go a long way to establishing that I'm a mechanic.
If 200 dog groomers publicly attests to my ability and role as a dog groomer, then that would go a long way to establishing that I'm a dog groomer.
If 200 porn stars publicly attests to my ability and role as a porn star, then that would go a long way to establishing that I'm a porn star.
Assange's only chance in the US rests on being recognised as a journalist.
You can moralise and grandstand all you want, make beautifully worded speeches about power to the people, sing "we shall overcome", and indulge in self righteousness as much as you like. None of that will help.
Anything that hinges on "mobilising" the people isn't worth taking seriously.
@Tony – "The Western World even England has gone mad."
I've always had some respect for Solzhenitsyn too. Unlike many Soviet dissidents who came to the West he never ever became a cheerleader for western society. He basically saw it as decadent and corrupt and doomed and not worth spending much time looking at. Wikipedia isn't quite right that he was "expelled". He was swapped.
On the madness point, have you noticed the drift in how support for Britain staying in the EU is being portrayed? This is very very important for those who are interested in the political and opinion environment in Britain. The Tory "kick the members of the public in the teeth like they've never been kicked before" far right mob have really got their fangs out. I've spotted a new word which is probably going to be used a lot in the coming election or plebiscite: "remainism". As prime minister Boris Johnson denounces "collaborators", "remainists" are getting painted as halfway to terrorism. I am not joking. Take a look at the following two articles, one in the Torygraph, one in the Guardian.
Meanwhile the left seems unable to say clearly that Leaverism is not a position that is worthy of respect. It is, and always has been, a dogwhistle for far-right xenophobia and racism, for white power. EU membership was never a problem for anyone. Those who believe it was are either deliberate fakers or they don't have the intelligence to know what's going on in their own minds.
Here are links to the two articles:
"Boris can win the Brexit war by smashing the Remainer enemy in a snap election" (Nigel Jones in the Torygraph)
"'Loud, obsessive, tribal': the radicalisation of remain" (Daniel Cohen in the Guardian)
The second article is especially worth reading. It sounds like a strategic "think tank" piece. Clearly a lot of work has gone into how "Remainism" is portrayed, essentially as a manic extremist movement hell-bent on destroying society as we know it, in traitorous collaboration with foreigners and foreign governments. It's as if the rabid Tory right wing have been playing with themselves for years, and they're about to have the festival of blood they've always wanted. There has always been a fascist wing in the British bourgeoisie and its main political party… That's what Leaverism is all about: fascism and white power.
Northern August 15, 2019 at 10:19
Will you at least try and stay attached to reality? It gets really tiring reading you darkly insinuating that all leave voters are part of some conspiracy to bring back the goose step. You're not even worth the energy in making the valid arguments too.
I'd be tempted to say that remain voters are flirting with fascism in trying to stop Brexit by literally any means necessary because they're either politicians with their nose in the trough or arrogantly narrow minded fools who banally believe what the BBC tells them to believe, but that would be a sweeping idiotic statement that gets us nowhere wouldn't it? Reducing the votes of millions of people on either side to a few phrases is never going to do anything for your analysis other than mark you out as a simpleton.
@Northern – Have you actually got an analysis or even feelings about what is happening, or do you prefer to sneer on the internet at those who have? You don't even seem to know your own mind about whether what I say is worth responding to or not. Your actions show you don't feel it's worth responding to other than with abuse and belittlement.
Meanwhile, in the latest blow of the White Power dogwhistle, the British government says it will put "knife-free" boxes in more than 200 fried chicken shops.
MJ August 15, 2019 at 11:21
Any views on why the Left is also opposed to the EU? (I exclude here those neo-con Blairites trying to oust Corbyn of course).
You're not worth responding to with anything other than belittlement because what you say is so self evidently ridiculous that I don't see the point in making the effort. Like I said the first time, reducing the votes of millions of people on either side to a few phrases is never going to do anything for your analysis other than mark you out as a simpleton. So you're just going to out of hand dismiss the myriad of other reasons people could and did had for voting leave and call us all white supremacists? Surely you're not so dim that you can't see the irony in that? All I'm asking is for you to at least try and retain some semblance of reality in your posts rather than over exaggerating every phrase you use until it sounds like there's a literal pogrom against people of colour happening outside.
Look, think what you want about what you want, just understand that if you're determined to see everything through a racial lense then I think you're part of the problem no matter how much you want to pose as some kind of revolutionary.
@Northern – Clearly to your mind I am scum for knowing and analysing what the Tory bourgeoisie is about, and for using up-to-the-minute examples regarding not just its nature but the dynamic. Do you have a view on any matter that has been raised or discussed in this thread that you are willing even to express, let alone to argue for or support? I am not getting to get down in the gutter with you and engage in a slanging match.
Don't put words in my mouth, please. I've never used the word 'scum' in these posts. All I did was call you a simpleton. And if we're being honest, reducing a complex geo-political question differently interpreted by millions of people regardless of their ethnicity, to parameters of race and skin colour is a bit simplistic, isn't it? I'm not intending to 'have a slanging match' with you, merely pointing out that most people have other motivations, regardless of what you choose to believe. It gets tiring being constantly told that we're all fascists, especially by people who often write self congratulatory, cryptically hard to fathom posts that seemingly speak more to their own delusions than reality. There's a real arrogance in professing to know why people choose to vote the way they do which I refuse to believe you're not intelligent enough to understand.
kathy August 28, 2019 at 01:53
"Any views on why the left is also opposed to the EU"
I believe it is due to Marxist ideology- "Workers of the World Unite" with the EU being viewed as a priveleged "White Man's Club" – all hopelessly idealistic
It's odd that there's an obsession with explaining why people voted for Brexit. I didn't know we were required to explain why we voted in a supposed democratic system. Usually it's enough to simply count the votes.
While you're at it, though, N, why don't you feel the need to explain why people voted for Thatcher, Major, Blair and others?
I suppose if you go down the road of explaining why people voted in all those other elections, you will find they voted on the same basis that they voted for Brexit — lies, MSM spin, propaganda, news reports, what they see in their own communities, etc., etc., and that leaves you in a pickle because you'd basically need to argue that every single election (ever) was some sort of miscarriage of justice and de-legitimise them all.
So, in short, why single out the Brexit voters for this special treatment?
I myself have no interest in why people voted for Brexit. It's another thing that a lot of people were wrong about, like Thatcher, Blair, the pop band Bros, and a million other things. My personal view is that it was more down to a failure of Labour rather than right wing crackpots, but who cares?
Accept the result and move on.
Deb O'Nair August 15, 2019 at 19:15
"It's odd that there's an obsession with explaining why people voted for Brexit."
It is not odd to recognise the subversion of democracy by super-wealthy oligarchs for their own personal interests. Many people who voted for the Leave campaign were duped by lies from a campaign that was illegally funded, and that's a simple, verifable fact.
That's not exactly an original point, Deb. The point I was making, which is just as original (and obvious), is that you could just as easily argue that every election in living memory was subverted, with lies and and illegal funding.
That's verifiable too; in fact, if you take the most recent election before the brexit vote, it won't take you long to find serious allegations of over-spending by Cameron's conservatives (look into the role of their "battle bus"). If I remember correctly, the over-spend arguably swung the election too by pouring dark money into key marginals.
We could discuss this for a thousand years, with example after example. Thatcher allegedly started a war in the Falklands in order to win her second election. I'd argue that that was worse than the brexit stuff…
The question I asked still stands. Why is it we have never looked so forensically at the motives of voters in other elections, some of which I refer to above? Why is it that nobody talked seriously of over-ruling those equally corrupt results? Etc. Etc.
"My personal view is that it was more down to a failure of Labour"
That's what the BBC said after the referendum. The fact is the Labour Party ran a good Remain campaign but pulled less than 20% of the media coverage, it's ridiculous nonsense to blame Labour.
Citing the aberration that was Cameron as an example of a typical election victory when his premiership was brought about by the same oligarchs behind Brexit; 2001 becomes an MP for the first time. 2005 become Tory leader. 2010 become PM. All done with huge amounts of finance and non-stop PR in the corporate media. No one has ever entered parliament and become PM within 10 years, and no one thought it was odd, not least he corporate media the cheer led him for years.
Also, the points you make about GEs are irrelevant as in a referendum there is one issue to be voted on, which is massively different than supporting a party's manifesto. If a party wins and they're crap they can be voted out. Brexit is forever.
If you're life savings were defrauded by a crook would you accept it and move on?
Deb: "Citing the aberration that was Cameron as an example of a typical election victory when his premiership was brought about by the same oligarchs behind Brexit…"
Tell you what, point to one election after 1945 that didn't involve lies, over-spending, or extremely rich people influencing the result.
During the Scottish referendum of 2014, about 99% of the MSM was opposed to independence. We know that the "no" campaign over-spent too and came out with a bunch of lies every day. The yes campaign's email server was even hacked and the purdah rules were completely and massively broken and ignored.
That's just one more example of a subverted election. I don't see the left leaning luvvy liberals or anyone talking about re-running that election. Yet, for some reason, we are all supposed to be offended and make a stand on the Brexit vote.
Appreciate you being the voice of reason with regards to a subject I know it brings you no joy to defend. The left wing puritanical streak that occasionally surfaces in discussions like these is an interesting phenomenon.
To return to topic, I plan to write something to Julian this weekend – will make a fresh comment regarding that so more people see it hopefully.
fonso August 15, 2019 at 11:55
The EU exists as a tool of big business, which is why its structures and policies are so anti democratic. The Labour party used to recognise that. Certainly all genuine Marxists did (and do).
J Galt August 15, 2019 at 15:19
What in God's name is a "genuine Marxist"?
J Galt
A: a mothball to protect the stored hoards of capitalism from moth and rust.
A sop to those who for God's sake do not lie, steal or kill.
Or in Corbyn' s case a whiff of common sense in an otherwise self-destructive Tory game of strip poker.
Genuine Marxism has not been tried, except as an antidote to the bonkers logic of me-first Thatcherism that the ERG bet on the failure of Britain and win.
One swivel-eyed commentator on Radio 4 this morning referred to the " Thatcher Settlement ".
The only settlement I remember is her being kicked out of office by her own party for being a total obsessive dictator.
A fate that will never happen to Johnson because Saint George has spiked Corbyn's Marxist flame…
Silly season.
Of course the EU is a tool of big business. So is the UK.
You cannot successfully argue from that fact that Brexit is good or that from a working class perspective it doesn't matter.
N_
Exactly.Brexit is a colour revolution for Zionism.
We now have a cabinet in Downing Street which represents this alone, riding on populist garbage about racist nationalism.
Nonsense. If that was true why did Rupert Murdoch vote for Brexit? It was because he had no influence over the EU unlike the UK where 10 Downing Street was like a second home to him with great attention being paid to his ideas.
There is a simple truth which must be acknowledged about the referendum and that is that is was funded by oligarchs, supported by oligarch owned media and the campaign was based on proven lies and illegal funding. Getting people to cast a vote in light of that is not democratic. Democracy can not thrive when there is not a fair and representative press free of influence from oligarchical interests.
Let me give you a very recent example of how the oligarch press are trying to openly pervert democracy and public opinion :-
https://fullfact.org/europe/telegraph-suspending-parliament/
grafter August 15, 2019 at 09:38
Glad it's you in "England" doing this. We in Scotland intend to relieve ourselves of your corrupt government.
Doghouse August 15, 2019 at 14:33
The *you*, the people in England are no different to the ordinary people in any country, and are doing exactly the same as the people in Scotland and Wales and would like to see a happier and more beneficial country for all in exactly the same manner – and don't quote vote twaddle. Your pointing finger at people no different to you aids nothing save smug conceit.
Sadly, the truth is, if the people of Scotland successfully gain independence, it will be only a matter of minutes before their administration becomes as corrupt as any other. History defines this plainly. Countries are not run by the people for the people, they are run by people with certain propensities, with certain mindsets, mindsets which are attracted by the glitter of power like flies to the glitter in …..
Only a matter of time before that government just like you, sees itself as different and apart and points the finger at its own people and its own people return the gesture, only their case it will be for good reason. Fact.
RandomComment August 15, 2019 at 17:35
Agreed Doghouse. They want you divided
I hate to burst your bubble but the people of England are not just like the people of Scotland. It is shocking to read about the racist attacks going on down there and the shocking treatment of migrants such as Windrush. As for your doom-filled prognosis of how Scotland will be after independence, that scenario would be highly unlikely as, besides the fact that Scots are more egalatarian, our parliament is run by ordinary working people rather than Eton toffs so the likelihood of widespread corruption is unlikely to say the least. The facts speak for themselves.
Good luck with that. Getting rid of a corrupt government I mean.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/07/20/assa-j20.html
Node August 15, 2019 at 10:11
We in England controlled by The USA …
England (and the rest of the UK) are not controlled by the USA. Both countries are controlled by TPTB. This is not a trivial point. It is THE point.
I struggle to believe the number of intelligent people here who still don't get THE point, never-ending talk about which country is the tail to some other country that is the master.
The controllers are supra-national – they make up the rules as they steamroller along
It's sad to say but Assange is now caught firmly in the jaws of the Great Satan, if he'd escaped to Russia or Venezuela for example things might have been very much different.
So what can be done to extradite Assange from his ominoius position? Who or what( nation body etc) has the influence or clout to free Assange, and why would they come forward to do so and incur the wrath of the USA and most Western intel agencies who want Assange silenced on their covert operations, that Assange and Wikileaks have generously informed us all on.
Public opinion on Assange what is the current feeling towards Assange and his unjust predicament at the moment around the globe?
We know most journalists are just paid stooges barking out what they're told to bark out. So it very unlikely thst they will be a voice of reason for Assange. Nor will the Western media, I doubt China or Russia will intervene on Assange's behalf. The EU certainly won't so where does that leave us?
As for Assange at present, can his extradition be stopped? Will, leaving the EU in October see his EU human rights impinged upon, and will that lead to tougher conditions for him.
Finally speculation also must play a part, could his death be faked, and he himself moved to some dingy ME dungeon to be tortured to the end?
"…why would they come forward to do so and incur the wrath of the USA and most Western intel agencies who want Assange silenced on their covert operations, that Assange and Wikileaks have generously informed us all on."
Self evident really. The world order is changing to accomodate the certainty of the death of all things if everything remains as it is. Every state in the world interested by the possibility of their own near term survival has to begin to defy the United States now or later, and later is quite obviously too late.
In my opinion it's in the peoples interest to know what their governments are up to, afterall we elected them. Yet here we are, where a window of opportunity to keep knowing what they are up to ( Though not all of it) is about to close, (Assange's incarceration and ultimately his demise) and yet there is no real great uproar from the people.
Have the majority of folk become so unconcerned as to what their governments get up to that the passing by of Assange will go out with nothing more than a few protests, accompanied by statement waving placards.
They may as well bind their hands and feet and cover their eyes with a blindfold to what going on.
Finally can we really ask another brave soul to stand in the spotlight and follow in Assange's footsteps, when most folk don't really care, would you step into the light?
I offer the following rhetorical idea…
How about comparing the British state's relationship with the United States in the Julian Assange case (subservience, and an intention to extradite on the more powerful government's orders, insisting to the local population that the procedure is thoroughly legal and proper) with the Hong Kong government's desired relationship with the People's Republic of China (ditto)?
Free biscuit for any interviewer who has the guts to put that comparison to Dominic Raab or Robert Buckland.
On the positive side, I would hold up the example of the Icelandic government, which had the courage to grant Icelandic citizenship to Bobby Fischer, a decision which allowed him to get out of the Japanese prison cell in which he had been confined on United States instructions – not pending an extradition (playing chess in Yugoslavia has never been a crime in the Japanese jurisdiction), but pending an intended frogmarch out to a waiting US aircraft, no court papers required. He too would have ended up in a prison such as Florence, probably to die there, had the US government been successful.
I offer the following rhetorical idea.
How about comparing the British state's relationship with the United States with that of Punch and Judy? Is Judy subservient to Punch? Or are they equally subservient to the puppetmaster?
Are we kids or adults?
Serious question: is Julian Assange's organisation Wikileaks interested in the ongoing story about the use of face recognition technology "in the area of King's Cross station in London"?
This isn't just about a transport hub. It isn't even primarily about a transport hub. King's Cross station is protected by truck bomb barriers and frequently patrolled by armed police.
It's about the big and extremely powerful private company that has its HQ on the site. I mean on the site that is protected by face recognition technology. There's face recognition tech all over central London and there has been for years. I'm talking about a company that some believe may have gone too far. This is the company that even managed to piss off the SAS. If anyone can't guess which one, "Google" it.
BBC: "Argent, the developer of the 67-acre (0.3-sq-km) site, has said facial recognition is being used to 'ensure public safety'. But the use of cameras and databases to work out who is passing through and using the site has proved controversial. So far, Argent has not said how long it has been using facial-recognition cameras, what is the legal basis for their use, or what systems it has in place to protect the data it collects."
"The King's Cross Central development is home to both King's Cross and St Pancras International stations, as well as restaurants, shops and cafes.There are also offices occupied by companies such as Google and Central St Martin's College."
Hahaha! Imagine putting today's equivalent of IBM in the 1950s on a par with Centra) St Martin's College! Is there a sandwich shop in the area too? Why not go the whole hog and write that those acres are home to both Google and Luigi's sandwich bar?
I'd like to amend my characterisation of Google as today's equivalent of IBM in the 1950s. In the sense that IBM made almost all the computers and Google have their tentacles on almost all the internet and almost all mobile phones, yes. But given the importance of those spheres – or rather, that sphere – today, Google are FAR more powerful than IBM ever was.
The company's London HQ is far more important to the world economy than King's Cross railway station, and it can be expected to have far better security. And as we know, Google is highly aggressive and tends to operate at the edge, "moving fast and breaking things", with little regard to the letter of the law, as "things", and especially the concentration of power in the hands of those who control this monster, are developing so rapidly. I would not be surprised if this company's site in London has better security than the local country's government buildings and even than the US embassy and CIA station.
Dungroanin August 16, 2019 at 05:56
The Guardian? In their Kings 'palace'?
"Are we kids or adults?" Mass-democratic politics isn't based primarily on the intellect.
The goal is to free Julian Assange from prison and from the prospect of extradition, more prison, and possible execution. A little bit of playing along with the false idea that many countries are separate entities with "independence", rather than functioning primarily as brands deployed by the centralised global capitalist machine, is acceptable if it is required to achieve this goal. A similar statement can be made about the "rule of law". A huge explosion of crystal clear revolutionary consciousness isn't on the horizon.
Free straight-jacket to anyone who thinks that's a meaningful point to make.
Note to all crackpots; Hong Kong is China.
It's often good to expose an opponent's hypocrisy. If the British government (judiciary included) is willing to hand over a prisoner to the US authorities on receiving a "request" from those authorities, it seems to me that those who want to fight against JA's persecution should consider emphasising the fact that the very same British government throws up its arms in feigned horror at the thought of the mainland Chinese government extraditing prisoners from Hong Kong.
But wait, an internet quick-reaction troll calls my point meaningless and spits that I should be physically restrained and presumably locked up in an asylum for making it.
For the second time, Hong Kong is China. Your comparison makes no sense.
We should be looking to simplify thinge, not complicate them?
John Pillager August 15, 2019 at 13:54
"Killing Julian Assange Slowly" by Stephen Lendman;
https://stephenlendman.org/2019/08/killing-julian-assange-slowly/
lysias August 15, 2019 at 15:20
News about Epstein IS on topic for this thread. Look again at the title of the thread and take note of the word "also". And read Craig's first sentence about Epstein's highly dubious death being additional reason to oppose Assange's extradition.
If Julian is to remain in a U.K. prison until Christmas and if we have Cliff Edged Brexit on Halloween,
are we to assume that after Halloween, he can not apply to the European Courts,
as the U.K. will no longer have any truck with any E.U. laws?
I don't know what kind of legal battles he is fighting, but the answer depends on what you mean by the European Courts. The European Court of Human Rights is nothing to do with the European Union or its European Court of Justice.
Olaf S August 15, 2019 at 17:45
Potential good news for JA in that BJ lets the Grace 1 go? A slight sign the the new government is less cruel/stupid/criminal than the May/Hunt crew? According to RT the US protests vehemently in the shape of Pompeo, but it is hard to beleive there has not been confidential telephone talks and some agreement between BJ & DT ( if you ask me).
The Pompeo quote "One must kick Iran while it is down", makes me remember Iran's action when the US was down (9/11): It offered assistance/support! (And that came from a much less moderate Iranian leadership).
What would be interesting would be if Boris/The Donald actually freed/exonerated Assange, claiming this is all about the globalist, NWO, deep-state cabal.
Greg Park August 15, 2019 at 18:15
You've more chance of seeing a one-legged cat bury a turd on a frozen pond.
I think it has more to do with the visit from private US citizen John Bolton, who seems to have been received by HMG and the media as if he is a democratically elected representative of the USG.
John Sholton August 15, 2019 at 21:00
The post of National Security Advisor is an appointed and not an elected post. And John Bolton is not a private citizen, he serves the USG and is therefore a US government official. Nul points, I'm afraid.
You are completely wrong. The NSA serves the President, not the USG. He is not in the cabinet and he does not represent the USG. He may be a US government official but so are hundreds of thousands of other private US citizens.
Your third sentence contradicts your second one.
No it doesn't, you made an error in stating that Bolton "serves the USG", the role of National Security Adviser is not a public office and private citizens can be USG officials (civil servants), e.g. someone that works at the IRS.
"The National Security Advisor is appointed by the President and does not require confirmation by the Senate…the National Security Advisor is a staff position in the Executive Office of the President and does not have line or budget authority"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Advisor_(United_States)
My final point is that John Bolton has absolutely no authority, whatsoever, to be telling the UKG that they are "first in line for a trade agreement", a comment which has been taken by the British media as if this is a policy statement of the USG.
Deb O Nair
Bolton is a prominent creature of the swamp which sends a message to US voters that Trump breaks his promises.
Trump has also mismanaged the economy by taxing Chinese goods and lowering taxes for the rich.
He was voted in to do something new, not take the US back to the 1930s and war.Admittedly his defeat by Russia and China in Syria and the ensuing loss of reconstruction profits was the fault of Obama Cameron and John Bolton.
But Trump is packing his trunks
Andyoldlabour August 16, 2019 at 08:53
Olaf S
The Iranian president at the time was Khatami, very much a moderate, more so than even Rouhani. The reason why Ahmadinejad was elected, was because he was a populist – trreated the poor very well and stood up to the belicose George W Bush neocons who had placed Iran in the "axis of evil".
Thank you for the correction on this point.
Another question if (Ajatollah) Khamenei was not giving the instruction on how to act in important and principal cases like this.
BTW, In line with what you are saying about the Bush epoch: I remember the story about Ahmadinejad's congrats to newly elected Obama. ( It is said he did not even get a "thank you" from the Prince of Peace).
You are quite correct, something which wasn't really highlighted by the BBC at the time. I remember watching the Channel 4 alternative to the Queens speech at Christmas one year, and it was given by Ahmadinejad who far from being perfect (is any politician?) is very intelligent (qualified as an engineer and teacher, from a poor background) and spoke extremely well.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/27575431/ns/world_news-watching_america_vote/t/ahmadinejad-offers-congratulations-obama/#.XVatVnt7mUk
Rousing salute to Julian Assange and call to action by John Wight.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5NdCbrY0Gck&feature=youtu.be
Chick McGregor August 15, 2019 at 18:45
How many future schoolchildren will be as appalled by this barbaric behaviour as they are by the treatment of Guido Fawkes in 1605?
Bring on Rees Mogg, the man is clearly a moderniser.
Modernised?
Mogg is a hedgefund owner who is gambling on Britain's bankruptcy after No Deal.
If that is a modern way of monetizing treason, yes he's a moderniser The Tower would be the best place for him after common sense Corbyn gets in.
If Corbyn doesn't get in, the Tower of London will probably be bought up by Boris Johnson's pal Evgeny Lebedev and function as the Tower Casino, at least for three or four days while the airports are still open.
Conversation:
JOHNSON: My stepmum's family own Marks and Spencer!
LEBEDEV: I know. My dad told me. He was in the KGB before he bought the Evening Standard.
Don't get all malmesbury with me mate. Corbyn has built a new prison tower complete with corbies to house the asset stripping Tories for 1000 years of racking hunging and quartering.
It's called ideas
gremlins3 August 15, 2019 at 19:29
Perhaps people need to be reminded of Boris Johnson's robust stance when in 2006 he challeneged the extradition of one of his constituents, one of the Nat West Three. He went on to condemn in Parliament, at some length in several well-argued exchanges, the asymmetrical nature of the extradition treaty and our "poodling" to the US:
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmhansrd/vo060712/debtext/60712-0010.htm
He is on record as saying: "… We are failing to protect our nationals…we should suspend the treaty, undesignate America as a category 2 country, and do justice by our people…." and much more.
He has always robustly defended fraudulent banksters. You can see him here proudly boasting that no politician in Britain defended the banksters more robustly – "day in and day out" – than he did on the wake of the global financial crisis.
https://mobile.twitter.com/owenjones84/status/1142688688729546752?lang=en
John Goss August 15, 2019 at 21:42
I'll post this link again because the last time the page quickly moved on. Jennifer Robinson is part of the Assange legal team.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/08/09/jenr-a09.html
I wrote to my MP, Steve McCabe, at the end of May about the deteriorating condition of Julian Assange's health and asked what politicians are doing about it. I had to resend it because I never got the standard acknowledgement of receipt. Last week he wrote back to apologise for not responding but that he had a lot of local work which he prioritises from the hundreds of emails and letters he receives daily. (I believe it). However he never mentioned the appalling conditions that have led to Julian Assange's deterioration of health but would like to see him sent to Sweden to face charges should a request be made to face rape charges. Knowing that he believes in MSM I sent him this which is one of the best outlines of the alleged rape case, and written by a Swedish journalist Celia Farber.
https://observer.com/2016/02/exclusive-new-docs-throw-doubt-on-julian-assange-rape-charges-in-stockholm/
I rack my brains trying to think of a way of making MPs pay attention to this immoral incarceration of a good man. Can somebody please raise an epetition to parliament. I will sign it. The last one I raised, regarding the Skripals, was not allowed.
I have just done a search of epetitions on the name Julian Assange. There is one open petition about him facing charges in Sweden as a priority should Sweden request his extradition (similar wording to my MP's email response) but there are some 30 rejected petitions calling for him not to be extradited. That's how biased those filtering petitions are.
However, a petition should be raised on health grounds, since we protest strongly about people imprisoned abroad in countries whose regimes we do not agree with. Own back yard comes to mind.
How about a blog hosting a petition to free Julian, how about 3 four or 10 blogs hosting a petition that is worded as one?
I'm not trained in IT but what would happen if Glass/ Craig/ John Pilger/ Nafeez Ahmed/ and others who dare/ Snowden/ Kristinn H./ as well as many excellent bloggers/ journalists down under and in the middle east.
One concerted petition to free a persecuted man who publicised war crimes, just as in My Lai, and who is pursued by gangster law and flamed by false procedures.
There has already been one petition on behalf of Julian Assange which Craig signed together with some other very influential people who have campaigned for his release. It was ignored.
What I suspect it needs is a grass roots movement with so many people swarming Belmarsh. What baffles me is why left groups are not taking up the cause. It can only be because MSM have done such a thorough job on making ordinary people believe there may be substance in the 'rape' allegations. If the US gets its way over this then free-speech will be a thing of the past. Why then are so many people complacent? To my mind everybody should be behind Assange and Wikileaks, the only news outlet with 100% accuracy.
To see a man imprisoned like this is unbelievable. I suggested to my MP that anyone in a position to do so not supporting Julian Assange is like Pontius Pilate.
I don't think it's because they believe there may be substance in the rape allegations. Reasons may include that Julian Assange is not left wing (that's a bad reason), and that the left is not really into all of the New York Times and Washington Post and Hollywood sh*t about "a free press" and the "first amendment" to some bunch of freemasonic scumbag slaveowners' "Constipation" (good reason).
John Goss wrote: "What baffles me is why left groups are not taking up the cause."
In fact it's quite clear, many supposedly progressive people repeat it over and over, at least in the US and even in the UK. A typical example:
"I have no sympathy for Julian Assange. None. If it weren't for him Hillary would be the President of the USA. Let him rot."
https://twitter.com/mrsmacchan/status/1159121877048135681
So it's about fake progressive, real neocon mass murderer Hillary Clinton. Most people just don't know the facts, only war propaganda.
The left are the new "right"
SA August 16, 2019 at 03:56
The way it works is by constant demonisation in concert. Most of the demonisers of Assange are also participating in demonising Corbyn.
But now Corbyn has asked those against him to back him thereby forcing them to show their true colours. MPs elected to back a Labour Party into power like Chuka, have declared that they know better than those who elected them and would rather continue with a Johnson led Tory no deal Brexit than have Corbyn even as a temporary leader. And Jo Swinson has reverted to the true colours of the Lib Dems as Tory enablers as she reels with the delusion that her party is on an upswing.
And who does Swinson suggestion my unite parliament against Boris? Kenneth Clark or Harriet Harman or Yvette Cooper non of whom command a mandate from anyone to be leader except for the self important Swinson.
And Swinson's grasp of parliamentary arithmetic must be very poor if she thinks that all of labour MPs including Corbyn , are more likely to unite behind those named by her to lead an interim government than Corbyn, against a hard Brexit.
I think it would be easier for the media if they asked the politicians:
Hands up – who's not for a General Election?
Because from where I'm sitting and watching every manouvre by the anti Corbyn MPs are trotting out is to avoid any chance of a Corbyn led government – even temporarily.
Swinson and others have a very stark choice to make in September.
That is: you either vote to bring this current government down or face an inevitable No Deal Brexit.
OK you may not like Corbyn and if you don't then you need a credible alternative to him.
Various names have been bandied about and Ken Clarke is willing but I detect that he is not that keen on a GE
himself. He would rather take over from Johnson and his chums then go for an extension and then a referendum.
A Referendum on what exactly?
May's Withdrawal Agreement or some mythical agreement yet to be agreed by a majority of MPs?
This is why the vote of No Confidence is crucial irrespective of who leads the temporary replacement of this terrible government.
That must be done in September or No Deal it is.
Posturing like Swinson or Grieve will allow Johnson and his Kool Aiders to win without trying.
If it fails to happen in September then when/if Johnson calls an Election post No Deal he will benefit and the electorate will be
reminded ( certainly by Corbyn et al) of those who failed to act in bringing this government down.
It won't be Corbyn the post No Deal traumatised people will come looking for – it will be Swinson _ Grieve – Soubrey etc etc.
Either way for most of the anti Corbyn anti GE lot an election will happen eventually.
It may be that Johnson calls it post 31/10/19.
After the deadly deed is done.
I'll bet Johnson can't believe his luck.
N_ made a good point earlier. What if those who seem to support the rioters in Hong Kong decide to back peaceful demonstrations against the one sided extradition treaty we have with the US? Would the government then back off and scrap the treaty? Should NED not support such a noble cause and should the Brexiters not hail this as a sign of how we can regain our national sovereignty?
Rebecca August 16, 2019 at 04:34
Here is one explanation why he is so disoriented because United States and United Kingdom interrogators administered to him a drug called BZ during two coercive interrogation sessions back in early May of this year. And who knows what they're administering to him against his will and he's not in any position to speak for himself but they interrogated him without his attorneys being present. This drug induces psychosis. It was right after this that he was moved into the hospital Ward of that prison. What he is going through when he has committed no crime is egregious.
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2019/05/karen-kwiatkowski/pray-and-weep/
JA's ealiest (&only?) chance is a change of government here, that would demand that Legal niceties ARE observed. Or that Trump grants him 'immunity' perhaps in exchange for the dodgy dossier commissioners.
Corbyns letter is a checkmate move – and could see them into No10 within weeks
The Guardian comments under Steve Bell's cartoon are telling overnight! The 'Guardian Picks' are not the top voted.
The 77th appear to have abandoned attack there. Only Tory/NuLabInc types there. Most Lib types seem to have been shocked by Swinson and the recent turncoat arriviste M's into their ranks and have woken up to being sold a pig in a poke by the LibDem leadership AGAIN!
The 'coup' as a wildebeast … sorry, GNU, could have just been defeated!!
Which leaves only a GE called by the Tories themselves…
Julian's chances just got a lot better!
Anthony August 16, 2019 at 07:59
Corbyn gets strafed endlessly by centrist politicians and media for lacking passion on the Brexit issue. But it shoukd be pretty obvious now that Jo Swinson's passionate remainer shtick is every bit as bogus as the Boris Johnson diehard leaver canard. Perhaps even more so.
looks like Ms. Nicola Sturgeon is going to do a deal with Jeremy Corbyn, to get Corbyn in to number ten downing street.
Shocking, innit? Could you imagine the outrage there would have been if the Tories had, for example, been bribing big Arlene with our money for the past two years to get May and Johnson into 10 Downing St?
MIkeNort- Doubt it.
No such deal can be contemplated let alone agreed until AFTER a GE which requires a coalition or S&C agreement for the largest party without an overall majority.
Any such talk is scaremongering and electioneering.
PS – it seems that since my earlier post – a huge swathe of trollbots have been set loose on the Steve Bell cartoon. Comments which had accumulated to around a thousand or so have suddenly gone to 4k in a couple of hours – the majority of them anti Corbyn – lol it's as if there is a warehouse full of posters who have decided to zero in there. The panic is pleasurable.
The current red herring being flouted is to let the Mum & Dad of the house be incharge of a undemocraticaly elected GNU, rather than a caretaker govt that seeks a further extension to A50 so that an election can happen.
The rules of Parliament are sacrosanct – a No Confidence vote. Followed by 14 days to form an alternative then a GE. The whole thing can be done and dusted in 6 weeks.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2019/aug/15/steve-bell-on-jo-swinsons-reaction-to-corbyns-call-to-oust-pm-cartoon
The number of comments is approaching 4,000.
LibDem party are flipping, now they want to marry up with SNP/Greens/Labour and Changlings to cut off Boris in his stride.
Lib Dem Jo Swinson claims Ken Clarke and Harriet Harman are willing to lead caretaker government after they get rid of Boris.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/08/16/brexit-latest-news-boris-johnson-jeremy-corbyn/
Whoops sorry SE didn't read as far down! It's as much fun as cricket.
Now approaching 5k! Imagine them all tapping away on their gadgets.
Apologies if this has already been covered somewhere in the thread, did have a quick scan through and could not find reference to it.
Looking at the writetojulian website, is anyone on here familiar enough with prisoner writing regulations to know if they've been changed in the last few months? I have wrote, emailed and visited a couple of friends in prison inside the last 12 months and the stipulations for ensuring the prisoner would receive your communication were not the same as the ones being advised on this website? Specifically, I know that without their prisoner number clearly marked, your message would not be delivered, and you would not be notified of this. The write to Julian site advises against this, however. As I say, it's almost a year since I last had cause to write to someone, so perhaps the regulations have changed and I'm not aware? Either way I would hate to think of the thousands of messages of support he might not be getting if that stipulation is still relevant. I may endeavour to bring this to their attention this weekend if it doesn't turn out that I'm wrong these days.
I note HMP Belmarsh is also covered by the email a prisoner service – would be intrigued to know if Julian can receive communication this way also, there's no legal reason he shouldn't.
Northern I too would like to know the answer to this. If it turns out to be the case that prisoner numbers need to be included for the prisoner to receive the letter, then I will need to write again.
Shaun August 17, 2019 at 22:17
Northern, WRITING LETTERS TO JULIAN:
https://www.prisonadvice.org.uk/hmp-belmarsh
"You must write your own name and address on the back of the envelope or it will not be delivered to the prisoner.
"If you do not know the prisoners' prison number, please address the envelope as above with the prisoner's date of birth next to his name.
– So, the "writejulian" website is correct! People don't google anymore. First thing I did was to confirm the advice by checking the prison web site.
Also in prison are these 40 detainees in Guantanamo.
As of May 1, 2018, 40 detainees remain at Guantanamo Bay, according to the Federal government of the United States. This list of Guantánamo prisoners has the known identities of prisoners at the Guantanamo Bay detention camp in Cuba, but is compiled from various sources and is incomplete.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Guantanamo_Bay_detainees
One of them, Saifullah Paracha will turn 72 years old tomorrow in that prison. He has been held there for 15 years without charge or trial. He has had two heart attack and is ill.
Reprieve ask for messages to be sent to him. https://act.reprieve.org.uk/page/s/send-a-birthday-message-of-support-to-saifullah?
A year in Bagram. 9/11 etc The war on terror.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/dec/13/saifullah-uzair-paracha-guantanamo-bay-al-qaida-war-on-terror
After listening to Alexander Johnson today as he is embellishing himself by looking concerned for a policeman who died in action, on the road, i have now made my mind up.
Not far from being a throttle bottom, he most definitely is a sumptious snollygostler, a man not to be reckoned with.
Sorry, its snollygoste and it fits. From now on I will call him Snolly G. Johnson.
Or Snollugoster Johnson
Quip of the week about Johnson from Father of the House Clarke :
' I'm not sure if Boris has any deeply held opinions about Brexit ".
To Carrie he is 'Bozzie Bear' To him she is 'Little Otter'. Source D Express, therefore that must be true. 😉
You useless article,
how do you know he is not concerned by the death of the young policeman, who was due to go on his Honeymoon, tomorrow.
Michael Norton
Answer to your question to never mind is – because his girl friend is recorded as saying he was spoilt and didn't give a funk about anything.
Serendipity . Exactly when you want to command total trust God exposes you for the shallow lying politician you are … in your own flat.
Spilling red wine on your girlfriend's couch is not a crime, no doubt she flipped and he did not say sorry enough
but that is utterly insignificant, as to Boris Johnson's ability to run a government or his compassion for a newly wed couple who can not now go on their honeymoon, because the policeman was run over twice by robbers. Meaning he was murdered.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-49379191
You couldn't be more wrong about Johnson. He is a compulsive liar and conveyor of falsehood.
You never give the benefit of the doubt to liars because once they start to lie they become addicted to it.
You're living in fairyland if you think Johnson cares about an individual crime .
He invented the Skripal lie and all British and EU politicians have to go along with the falsehood to maintain the peace.
His pathetic attempt to describe gluing cardboard into a bus was as fake as his cutie blonde hair.
I feel sick. Johnson would find the process of empathy difficult enough, but expressing empathy for him is as impossible.
Someone may have written a statement on his behalf.
Giyanne is right, he is a compulsive liar and a snollygoster of the worst kind? You only have to ask his past peers, foreign ministers of various countries.
Nozomi Hayase – https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/08/16/the-prosecution-of-julian-assange-affects-us-all/
'August 16, 2019
The Prosecution of Julian Assange Affects Us All
With the indictment of WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange and the imprisonment of whistleblower Chelsea Manning, we are seeing the US government's blatant attack on the First Amendment. This assault now is officially acknowledged by a US federal court, where the judge dismissed a Democratic National Committee (DNC) civil suit against WikiLeaks on the grounds of First Amendment protections that apply to all journalists.
Assange, who has become a political prisoner in this war on the free press, was charged under the Espionage Act over publications exposing the US illegal wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. He is currently serving a 50 week sentence in Belmarsh prison in London for a violation of bail conditions he made in 2012 while attempting to obtain political asylum in Ecuador to mitigate the risk of extradition to the US. While in a maximum-security prison that holds some of the highest-risk prisoners in the country, he continues to fight US extradition.'
It was seven years ago, yesterday, that Julian made the fatal decision to enter the Ecuadorian Embassy. He was trapped.
An absolutely must read essay on propaganda and events covering the last 120 years by Gregg Maybury at Off-G.
https://off-guardian.org/2019/08/16/inside-the-submissive-void/
I personally have been coming across and verifying for myself many of the strands in there over the last few years but Maybury seems to be a lot further down that road.
It explains to me the hatred by the MSM 'journo' stenographers towards Wikileaks.
Please read, re-read and share widely. Such knowledge protects us and will set humans free.
Ishmael August 17, 2019 at 15:54
"I am not convinced it is not conspiring to destroy him"..
Nor am I. It's intolerable that this blatant abuse continues, As are thous who knowingly go along. …Your human beings god dam it. …Grrr.
Im posting this here as it seems to have been censored by YT on the last show, cut off early. https://consortiumnews.com/2019/08/16/watch-cn-live-webb-on-epstein-and-the-guardian-the-nyt-and-wikileaks-episode-6-at-2pm-edt/
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