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Thoughts On The #MeToo Movement
November 18, 2017 by tamaratattles 59 Comments
I received an submission for a post here from someone who wishes to remain anonymous. I hesitated about whether to post it at all, especially on the heels of the Ryan Seacrest post. The number of women coming forward has been a bit overwhelming for me. There is really no place to get away from the topic these days and sometimes I just need a break from the topic. There also seems to be a lot of deaths reportedly lately and that bothers me as well. I decided to post the piece here, because it's clear there are a lot of us who have things they want to say about a topic they have never opened up about. So here is the piece and here is the forum for conversation. Feel free to skip it, and I will try to come up with something lighter to post about as the open forum topic this weekend.
The national conversation we're having about sexual abuse by powerful men (most always men) is so important but it risks getting drowned out by partisan politics. I am going to say some horrible things about both parties in an effort to be bipartisan. 🙂
First a couple of definitions:
– Sexual harassment is a workplace violation. It's governed by federal and state laws and is illegal. Most recently in the sexual harassment category we've had Harvey Weinstein and also allegedly Kevin Spacey at the Old Vic theater in London and on the set of House of Cards. The accusation against Ryan Seacrest….
– Sexual assault is a criminal thing also governed by mostly state laws. Roy Moore undressing that 14-year old girl and trying to get her to touch him is sexual assault plain and simple because 14-year olds are unable to consent. Please don't bring up 'mature' 14-year olds in the comments. Sure, there are mature 14-year olds, but legally they cannot consent and adult males have no business trying to get with them. Consent is a big part of this. You can't have sex with someone who can't consent because they are underage or drugged (hi Bill Cosby! – allegedly). Obviously rape and grabbing someone by the p*ssy are also illegal, but apparently both can get you elected to President of the United States.
– Then there's what I like to call sexual sqwickiness. It's legal, but we sure as fuck can be judgey about it. Roy Moore at the mall, for example. Or Louis CK pulling out his dick. Why do guys think women want to see their junk again?
THIS IS IMPORTANT: One brief word about due process, innocence until proven guilty, etc. before I move on. These are legal terms that apply when the State is attempting to jail you. And everyone is absolutely entitled to them. But as the Greater Birmingham Young Republicans just said in their press release denouncing Moore, "[We] believe in innocence until proven guilty but not electability until proven guilty." Well said kids.
The most interesting development of the past week is many liberals turning on Bill Clinton. It's about time. I've always believed Juanita Broadderick. I mean just the fact the NBC held off reporting on her accusations of rape until after the impeachment hearings were over because they thought she was credible, says an awful lot. Of course, as conservatives have pointed out that it's easy to criticize Bill now that Hillary is basically done. And that criticism is certainly fair. What was fascinating to me is how many liberals jumped up to say "Trying to get with young girls is way worse than having an affair in the oval office." Ok, that's true. Everyone seems to forget that Bill was pretty credibly accused of rape. Until you remind them. Then they shut up. What liberals and feminists really have to answer for in my view is normalizing Bill's behavior and in the way they attacked and attacked all of the women who spoke up. Hillary was of course attacker-in-chief which is why she was completely ineffective in countering the Trump p*ssy grab audio. But Gloria Steinem among other supposed pillars of feminism defended Bill and then there was that nut job who said women should line up to give Bill blowjobs because he was protecting their rights. Not kidding, google it. Or google the horrible things Maureen Dowd said about Lewinsky. The rank hypocrisy of the left was on full display.
Not that the right is immune from rank hypocrisy. The long list of 'family values' Republicans who have ended up being adulterers, pedophiles, etc. is, well, long. Draping yourself in God and the flag only to cry later that you're 'flawed' earns you a special place in hell. I feel like special places in hell are fast becoming a hot commodity. Let's reserve one for the Governor of Alabama, a woman, who just said, basically, "yeah, I believe Moore's accusers but I'm going to vote for him anyway because we need a Republican in the Senate." Really? Hitting on underage girls used to be automatically disqualifying for public office. My how we've (d) evolved. Did you know that in 2011, 20% of Evangelicals believed that someone accused of sexual impropriety could serve well in public office. That number is now 72%. Left is right, up is down.
Where do we go from here? Honestly, I don't know. Was that Al Franken photo just a dumb prank (as the left would like to think) or criminal assault (as the right is asserting)? It makes a big difference and I hate that it is being politicized, but that is life. We're always going to have a tendency to make excuses for the behavior of those we support and vilify what is frequently the same behavior in those we don't. In the end, it's a national conversation that we need to have.
Filed Under: News Tagged With: Me too, News
Sadly enough, I discovered this forum as a way to escape being inundated with it.
Keep moving then.. you can go to other posts.
Well written. I like Bill Maher because he's One of the few on the left willing to criticize the left. But I was disappointed last night with his dismissal of Al Franken. Yes, yes, there is a WORLD of difference between Roy Moore and Al Franken, but we don't know that this isn't a pattern of behavior for him. I don't think we should be so quick to defend and dismiss, just because we like someone or they're on our side politically.
Ugh.. Bill Maher makes me shudder. I'm too tired to google it, but he's been a bit of a pig himself in the past.
I was SO fucking disappointed in Franken. I have a lot of his books, and if you have read them or heard him speak, he ADORES his Frannie. I even remember his wife's name! Nevertheless, I believed her. Didn't matter that she is a conservative who supported Trump. I believed her. Several activist/writer women I follow believed her. We've been tweeting back and forth about our disappointment.
But then I saw the picture. He wasn't touching her at all, and frankly, looked like the stupid juvenile shit my freshmen used to do (before cell phones thank god)… not to girls, but each other. No matter, it was inappropriate, she wasn't awake, and she didn't deserve to be mocked like that, even in a remotely sexual way. But now I questioned whether or not he should resign.
I acted in high school, did a few skits in college. I firmly supported the idea that turning a stage kiss into an assault is entirely possible. You don't do tongue without a SPECIFIC conversation beforehand in a stage kiss.
Now there are more pictures… of them kissing. She's fucking wrapped around him. Arm around his neck, and leg up around his ass.
The tweets I talked about? Some guy said he is a victims advocate, and he knows computers and photoshop. Apparently he got ahold of pure copies of the photos released. Said that as a former military guy and a victim advocate, he wanted to know who took the picture as he felt they should be under scrutiny too – they are charged with protecting the USO performers.
He found some very questionable indicators that her dates, etc. don't add up AT ALL.
Oh, and there is another picture of her doing the exact same skits with another USO performer, Robin Williams. (Deep kiss and everything).
Plus, I'm REALLY bothered by the fact that he apologized, said he didn't remember the kiss but said pictures don't lie and he was stupid. He requested an investigation by the Ethics committee.
Then she said she didn't want an investigation AND has signed a book deal???
I'm really confused now. I want the ethics committee to investigate, but I am seriously nervous that this destracts everyone and Roy Moore will get elected vs. Doug Jones who would be a great addition to the Senate.
Why are we so willing to believe the allegations against Moore but question the ones against Franken? I am guilty of it as well. I have read the stuff about the Moore accusers all having strong ties to the Clintons and hthe left and yet I believe them. Is it just becauseTrump is such a douche or is it deeper than that?
Parker, Just Parker says
It's tribalism, pure and simple. Where it really bugs me is when it descends into the tinfoil beanie realm and people start making excuses like "we did some digging and it doesn't add up." I mean, how do you say that with a straight face with the picture staring at you?
You could say "different time, different place, dumb sophomoric joke, I'm really sorry." At some point though we, as a society have to decide what crosses the line for our politicians. And whether he needs to resign.
Mary, I don't know where you "read the stuff about the Moore accusers all having strong ties to the Clintons and hthe left", but you must have had to dig pretty deep to find such reckless speculation. Virtually all of the five initial women (Moore accusers) voted for Trump (the abuser in chief) and expressed they had no encouragement from any political faction.
I am very concerned for our future when willfully ignorant people repeat these easily disproven* "facts" as gospel. Do you due diligence, Justanothermary!
* spellcheck says 'disproven' is not a word but it really is, most often used before the word 'facts'. Goggle it, there's been a surge in its use over the past year. I wonder why.
I believed her (re: Franken). The guy who found the discrepancies in the photos believed her, and was simply trying to find out who stood by and let him do that without saying anything. (Real complicity, not this "you heard the rumors and didn't say anything, you are complicit bullshit).
But it isn't tribalism, etc. Harvey Weinstein and Kevin Spacey, both dems, both pigs and I believe their accusers. Same with Bill Cosby. Anthony Weiner resigned and is currently serving time in prison. I don't recall anyone defending his actions at all, not the way Roy Moore is being supported. I heard calls for his wife to also quit her position, and others who expressed support to her as someone also victimized by the situation.
There is all sorts of information online that shows that Franken's accuser was seeking publicity and now has a book deal with a publisher that is connected to Bannon, Also the guy who took the photo has come forward to say that he was Franken's military escort for the tour and that the photo was a joke and the woman was in on the joke. There are also photos of her kissing Franken in REHEARSAL with her arms around his neck tightly. There are also photos of her doing the exact same skit with Robin Williams and groping him. There are also photos of her playing grab ass with a musician who was trying to perform without acknowleding her. There is overwhelming evidence that she was simply seeking attention.
Itwasjulie says
Tamara the official photographer was Owen Franken, he has denied taking the picture. The story about the photographer saying it was a joke she was in on is false. That was started by some tool named Aidan Benjamin, Snopes rated it FALSE additionally the USO denied it.
USO shows are risque and I don't give a crap if she kissed him or anybody else on stage or rehearsal, using forcing your tongue down her throat was assault.
I admire her for putting up and touring for so many USO shows, she is a military daughter and wife. Several years ago she was featured in Military Spouse, she talked about what a wonderful person Robin Williams was and many other people. She did not mention AL Franken. Good for her, if she got a book deal, doing 16 USO tours, she deserves it.
Roy Moore, could teach Phaedra something about fake religion, I wish a lightening bolt would just fry him and his wife on national TV. Alabama Republicans should withdraw their support and that would cancel the damn election. nothing else to say about that shit show other than a running stream of obscenities.
If anybody wants to remember "we were innocent once upon a time' look up Lawerence Welk "One Toke" a modern spiritual.
melanctha says
The Moore accusers are all Republicans.
Carrol says
Politics should be left out of this.
Could there be a few women among those coming forward who are just seeking attention? That's possible but in most cases the accusations are creditable and most women wouldn't put themselves out in the public this way unless they really were victimized.
But regarding Franken —-he has along history of sexually offensive jokes and statements….a few examples:
Franken once joked about child rape during a comedic roast of film director Rob Reiner. Franken laid out a scene where Reiner's father, Carl, would invite famous friends over to rape his son. Franken said. "Well, the success of The Dick Van Dyke Show changed things dramatically. Carl started inviting many of his famous friends to fuck his son. That list includes some of the greats in comedy: Paul Lynde, Dom DeLuise, Rip Taylor, Danny Kaye, Charles Nelson Reilly and Rock Hudson—whom I frankly don't think is that funny."
Franken also brought up rape in a 1995 New York magazine article and detailed three-way sex with robots in a 2000 article, during which he also discussed a well-known 60 Minutes reporter. "And, 'I give the pills to Lesley Stahl. Then, when Lesley's passed out, I take her to the closet and rape her,'" Franken said. "Or, 'that's why you never see Lesley until February.' Or, 'when she passes out, I put her in various positions and take pictures of her.'"
Franken was also quoted at a Feminist Majority Foundation event in 1999 that was aimed at helping Afghani women: "Why don't we focus on what Afghan women can do? They can cook, bear children and pray. As I recall, that was fine for our grandmothers."
To me this kind of filthy talk qualifies as 'verbal' sexual assault—-if I was in an audience where this happened I would not only walk out I would complain to whoever hired or let him use these 'jokes'.
Franken has a problem. And society has a problem if it finds Franken's 'jokes' and sex talk funny.
You do realize that you listed a bunch of comedy skits that never happened that were discussed in a room with other male comedians who decided not to use them and you are comparing them to CHILD MOLESTATION OF NUMEROUS YOUNG GIRLS, you ignorant twat/
You being offended by a comedy act is NOT LIKE CHILD MOLESTATION, You just get the fuck up and walk out.
2tall4u2 says
" You do realize that you listed a bunch of comedy skits that never happend."
No I did not list 'skits' that never happened.
I listed the Roast which happened as described by Newsweek.
I listed a New York Magazine article in which Franken said those things.
I could have listed others by USA Today, Politico, etc. that all reported the same thing.
All of whom I am sure do careful fact checking since they don't want slander suits.
I believe you are the ignorant twat here honey pie so getting' the fuck up and walking out' is no lose to me since reality blog are a dime a dozen and if so inclined I think I can find one who's owner doesn't support porno type talk and jokes like you do….but I will be delighted to let everyone know that you do… so maybe you will get some new readers who enjoy gutter talk.
Obviously too classy to post here. You go girl!
Carrol = Russian troll. Zdravstvujtye, comrade.
Plus, you need to read more about what the Roasts really are. They tell the most vile, disgusting, inappropriate jokes they can about the "honoree". They want to shock. It is literally a room where everyone gets a free pass to comment on the honoree or any other comedian. I looked it up.. you are talking about the REAL roasts, which were hosted at a Friar's Club. The Comedy Central ones are copycats and pale in comparison (and even those walk the line for something shown to the general public)
Something that was brought up in conversation with friends who were also really hurt and struggling about the Franken accusations: In an effort to be fair, to show that we democrats and liberals won't tolerate sexual harassment/assault from anyone, even if they are from our own political party, we have made a false equivalency between Franken and Moore. This is similar to what the media did during the election, focusing on Hillary's emails over and over to prove that they were fair and unbiased. Every day trump did something or said something horrible or outrageous, and everyday to show that they were covering the two candidates fairly, the media would talk about Hillary's emails. The implication was that her emails were as bad as anything he did. Are we doing that now with Franken? In an effort to show that we are not blind sheep following anyone with a D after their name no matter what they've done, are we creating a false equivalency? Are we saying that taking a photo where he mimes touching her breasts is as bad as a grown man trolling the courthouse where he works to pick up underage teenagers and then literally molesting them? Should it warrant the same punishment? Or in this case, a worse punishment? Bc Alabama might still elect Moore, but we will have expelled Franken from the Senate.
I don't think he dismissed the Al Franken situation at all, he simply pointed out the difference between his offense and those of Harvey Weinstein, Trump, or Kevin Spacey. And as it stands now, there is a huge difference.
He said Franken is not a predator, but he absolutely did wrong and his behavior was inappropriate, offensive and out of line. He also added if more women were to surface, or more instances of franken behaving this way as a pattern, he would revisit that comparison.
I didn't see it as at all dismissive of the seriousness of the situation.
I posted about being assaulted by someone in the news, that was Louis CK back in the early 90's. People knew. I didn't know until it was too late but I talked, no one listened then. Ok times are evolving, he's faced up to it, admitted he hurt women. Would I like to see him in jail, no. He did to me what he did to them, I can't speak for them, only me. I'm angry when someone says they're tired of hearing about this. I'm tired of thinking about it, triggered daily. I am better but the scars remain. Thanks for this space, I'm going to go read about Dorinda and her happy Christmas.
I am so sorry Lisa. I imagine that it is extremely hard to see his name, etc. It needs to be talked about, both among men and women.
I mean fuckballs, he joked about it! (Apparently, in the early stand up years, Bill Cosby joked about slipping women drugs as well.
I will say this, I think times are changing for the better even with all of this coming out. My sons have been taught how to treat women and I think the next generation will be better. Remember, sexual harassment wasn't even a "thing" not that long ago. I'm glad that regardless of politics people are talking. Having someone masturbate in front of you uninvited is just wrong regardless of laws.
Cheychey says
I'm quite frankly alarmed that in 2017 it's still such a problem in our society that women and girls are still not valued or protected as they should be. Our virtue so to speak should not be a bargaining tool for a job nor a way keep the job we have or be promoted. when a President will be so eagerly accepted as basically the role model of men in our country and has degraded and made numerous offensive comments to women it just shows that things have not progressed as much as we thought. I'm truly disheartened that there appears to be quite a few men that still feel that they can control us, abuse us and cover it up and get away with it. When will it end.
samael says
the problem I have with social media – directing guilty or not guilty. What happened to "Believe the victim". This issue is not a Hollywood/DC issue, it is an issue – period.
Being Canadian, I don't understand how sexual abuse becomes politicized – yet it does. My reality is, believe the victim until tangible proof that sexual abuse did not occur. Due process, should be for all, not for us, but not for celebrities/politicians.
This format of sexual abuse has existed at least since the 1950's , the difference is, one victim spoke out and the domino affect occurred.
Bottom line, believe the victim. Abuse is rampant and only will be dealt with if victims feel safe – and that is the issue as well – the safety factor is non existent, so there is no way to enforce policy it at any workplace.
The world needs to remember, the children are watching and are learning how the victim is treated.
It is politicized in our country because the "moral majority" types have interjected themselves into our politics, and unfortunately were given much power in the Republican party. One of our founding fathers wrote about being careful of minority factions trying to rule over everyone else.
I sometimes think the socially conservative people are being manipulated by their bigotry and their own "faith".
One particular Republican friend is at a loss. He would hate me saying it, but he IS socially liberal. For freedom from religion, for gay marriage, etc. Hates Trump with a passion.
I agree Samuel to believe the victim but I'm sorry I don't if they reach for Twitter before calling the Police! Report it to the Police. I'm tired of social media being a political blackboard and a criminal trial. If you are raped or sexually assaulted tell the Police. This is the exception for children obviously. Children are too scared to tell so it comes out later but then it is a police matter.
But it's not a criminal trial. None of these men who have been outed on social media have been throw in jail. They are facing public scorn and many may lose their jobs. But the public conscience does not go by "innocent until proven guilty," and companies have a right to fire anyone who has broken the company rules against sexual harassment and assault. Especially in Hollywood or politics where image is everything and what the public thinks affects the sale of movies or who gets elected. We do not need to coddle and protect men who are accused of sexual assault often by many different women. And women do not need to be told how they are allowed to deal with it. These men broke the law and they also did not respect the wants, needs, or even the personhood of the women they assaulted or harassed. Women do not then need to respect and protect these men's livelihood and public image. Speaking out on social media is not illegal. Raping and assaulting women is.
Yes the victims should have someone tell them how to deal with it. That is what a licensed private therapist is for. Getting on social media and other media platforms to say you were raped does absolutely nothing to put rapists behind bars. Nothing. It makes the story look completely incredible if the victim doesn't report it to the Police and cooperate with an investigation. Rape is a police matter. Selling your story to a tabloid after posting all over Twitter your story hurts real victims. It undercredits real victims.
I agree, both side huge hypocrites. Pink warriors were MIA on Obama Administration but magically reappear when Dem not in office. I am independent and voted for Obama & Trump however I find what Al did worse bc there is proof. And Moore should be investigated but it's my understanding that all but the accusers except 1 were within the age of consent. First, I dont think someone should be destroyed based on one victims word. #2 Alabama change your damn laws! No normal teenager wants a 30 year old. Don't care if he asked their parents permission! I still wouldn't vote for Moore bc he has shown very bad judgement thus far at the very least.
Wish our media BOTH sides stuck to the facts and not talk opinions or comparing and contrasting other situations but let victims be heard and ppl deem their story credible for voting. And Let real investigations be conducted. Rachael Maddow & Hannity aren't cops. I wish all national news networks had Dem, Rep, Indeps, etc. Not just one party to stir the pot and break up neighbors, friends and families.
Sorry, but let's look at your comment a little more closely. "All of the accusers but 1." One 14-year old isn't enough?
"Destroyed based on one victims [sic] word." No, actually it is 7 women now between the ages of 14-17 who have come forward. One was 14, another describes an attempted rape when she was 16. None of them knew each other. And then there is the whole creeping at the mall thing.
Yes, absolutely Roy Moore's political life should be destroyed because of this. Bill Clinton's should have been too, which is I think the point the author of the post was making.
Also it doesn't matter if they were old enough to consent if they did not consent! When an adult man rapes an adult woman we don't say "oh well she was old enough to consent so it's not a problem." It's a problem in that case and in the cases with Moore because he did things to these girls that they did not want, did not ask for, and did not consent to. He also used his position as an adult, as a lawyer, and as a political figure, to create a power imbalance and to make girls and their mothers trust him. After he did things to them, the power imbalance prevented them from speaking out.
Wait a minute. Lets unpack this statement a little.
"I find what Al did worse bc there is proof."
There is proof of him hovering his hands over her breasts that were covered by a flak jacket. (Very thick – she wouldn't have felt it.) Still juvenile and inappropriate. I doubt that Al was intending to rape her, otherwise he wouldn't have posed for the picture. He was also probably going for a laugh, not a boner or whatever "high" the sexual harassers like Louis CK get from exposing themselves, etc.
No one else has come forward with stories about Al. Think of all the coke fueled, weed smoke filled years with Saturday Night Live. Surely in those years of inhibition, etc. there would be SOME inkling that he was a sexist dirtbag. I've heard rumors about others, not about Al. (Wait … Lorne Michaels had to tell him to calm down, or would arrange for him to NOT be at 30 Rock if some political person or military person that Al objected to was coming around because Al would debate them at the very least.
MOORE undressed, took the clothes off of a 14 year old girl, and forced her to put her hand on his ERECT PENIS. This was the "second" interaction. He kissed her before this time. Keep in mind, he was in his 30s. She was 14.
Since then, another woman has come forward and stated after offering to give her a ride when she was 16, he assaulted her in the car. Tried to rape her. Told her that if she said anything, no one would believe her. (He was district attorney, and probably could make the charges go away) He has said he didn't know her, never had met her. Guess he forgot asking to sign her yearbook. (Quite frankly, a 30 something year old man who is NOT a teacher and no other affiliation with her school asking to sign a 16 year old's yearbook is creepier than Franken's picture)
SashaV says
Jeez, who wants to have kids anymore? This world is a hot mess. I would like to move to a remote spot in Montana with my three sons and husband and unplug from all the bs. Can we start a commune there for those of us that just want to live peacefully and be decent human beings??????
We could, but human nature being what it is, some people would surely fuck it up.
But I am with you on finding that life off the grid. Or at least some approximation of it. If we can't change the world, we can at least change how we live our own lives in response.
This flood of women with their stories and experiences has been a godsend. The timing is right – and I think the groper-in-chief has a lot to do with women finally having enough, and speaking out. Of course, along the way there will be a handful who try to take advantage by manufacturing stories for political or monetary gain. Those are easily routed, like the Franken accuser.
Yes, Bill Clinton was a serial womanizer who used his power to take advantage of, and possibly commit assault against, women. People overlooked the stories initially because he was a good candidate, and later, an effective president. The people who paid for his sins, sadly, were people in his orbit, and the Democratic party – his victims, his wife, his vice president, etc.
But Bill isn't running for office now. Roy Moore is. Al Franken will be. So, as John Oliver dubbed it, the "whataboutism" response to corruption, malfeasance and sexual predation, is nothing but a distraction and deflection and shouldn't be part of the discourse.
I'm so sickened by this but not in the way that people would expect. Not to long ago these same twats were offended over a comment over groping and wearing pussy hats that I wanted to shove cigars in btw…js. NOW…since a bunch of regina George's came forward….they are saying "this director raped me AND I SAID NOTHING ABOUT IT and got paid". the regina George reference was the popular girl in the movie "mean girls" and if she did something it became popular and that's why I think these woman are coming forward because it's "in" now. I don't even believe some of them. What would have been really brave is if before the A listers started coming forward, they would have come forward on their own YEARS AGO AND STOPPED IT FROM HAPPENING TO OTHER WOMAN. They proved trump was right so in a way it's hilarious. The hypocrisy of it all. #metoo A relative got inappropriate when I was young and I immediately told my mom. She did nothing folks…nothing. Years later my mom ratted him out to make him look bad because he caught her stealing money from my grandmother's account….she used it as leverage but did NOTHING when I was little so these bitches are reminding me of her.
ericzku says
How cute that you think that some "Regina Georges" coming forward earlier would have "stopped it happening to other woman [sic]".
Society disbelieves and vilifies women who come forward against powerful men. And the men just continue doing what they did before. Ever heard of Anita Hill? Maybe look her up before you continue blaming women for men's behavior.
By the way, it took A MAN to get the current ball rolling by writing an article on Weinstein for The New Yorker.
This, a thousand times this.
Think it's easy coming forward, go read Breitbart or Daily Kos. You'll find plenty of people tearing these women down.
I guess where I come down on it is that this is just the beginning of how this plays out. And the pendulum is going to keep swinging until we get it right as a country.
Chloe says
Funny that it was Woody Allen's son who broke the story. Disturbing that the head of NBC was unwilling to run it. That's why The New Yorker had to get the story out.
Rose McGowan DID try to come forward. No one fucking believed her. He tried to buy her silence, but she refused the money. As a result, he hired PRIVATE INVESTIGATORS to stalk her.
He literally had the power to destroy careers and livelihoods.
The woman accusing Roy Moore was 14 at the time. She was afraid she would get into trouble. He was the district attorney. Who was she going to report it to? Her friends were probably right that the only thing that would come of it would be her getting a reputation.
There is a LOT of literature out there as to why victims have a difficult time coming forward. Geezus… watch a little Law and Order for that matter. It isn't hard to figure out.
THEY are not responsible for these predators' behaviors. Lets blame the fuckers who actually do it.
These people are not your mother… they are you. Should I blame you for not persisting and not telling someone else? I don't. My heart breaks for you. I am so sorry.
I found out something similar happened to a relative of mine. An older one She told her mom, and actually got called a liar and called a troublemaker. Got that rep in her town, so she was afraid to tell anyone else.
Hell, Elizabeth Smart didn't admit that she was Elizabeth Smart right away, when the cops finally found her. It took the cops 45 minutes to get her to "confess", and they even had to cuff her! Her kidnappers/rapist was also cuffed and in squad cars. She was STILL afraid.
@Erika I told everyone he got around….I was determined that they be informed. What's really sad is an older cousin who he talked trash about to the family (it didn't have to be true…did the same thing about me) was his first victim if you don't count the victims in the Philippines…. my cousin never said a word bad about him. She should have told her side. She should have punched him out. .I know he has a kid in the Philippines by a 15yr old. he never reported it?? hmmm…asshole. prick…the girl in the Philippines was happy with 50 dollars a month for child support and didn't push it. Her name is Melinda. Ok, and if anyone knows if the outlaw biker club still exist in America?? reply!! I will tell them exactly where he lives. They would want him from crap he did in the 80's!!! They just tried to kill him twice back then.lol Hence the transfer to the Philippines. I will help them!! I know EXACTLY where he is at. I can give a city and state but not an exact address. But I will give them a name?? easy to find??
Jasmine says
Pam, what your Mom did in ignoring your assault is disgraceful. But there's no logic in you then saying women are making allegations because it's 'in now' and so should also be ignored.
How about when women did report the abuse, they were ignored and their careers suffered? Weinstein wielded that sort of power and so do many others in the entertainment industry. The abuse didn't stop. The managers and agents still sent actresses to meetings with Weinstein or James Toback knowing these men might sexually assault them. See also Bret Ratner or Kevin Spacey etc etc.
In the UK, we had the Jimmy Savile scandal in which a TV star raped children backstage at the BBC but was knighted by the Queen and befriended by Prime Ministers.
It happened in plain sight and yet it's amazing how many were willing to turn a blind eye.
My point is HOW COULD YOU NOT REPORT A FUCKING ASSAULT??? How?? As a kid I knew better so I have to think these adult grown ass fucking woman know better…js…It was for their careers while they are marching around in pussy hats. gross. Paid off players. And who does not know the background on ANITA FUCKING HILL??? AND HER MOTIVES?? I've been played..you can't play a player.
Many of these women , most of these women, told their friends and colleagues and boyfriends. No one believed them or cared enough to take it further. Or they did believe them a care, but could not do anything about it bc the guys that attacked them had too much power and would shut them down and ruin their lives. People have to continue to live and work and make money. Most women are not able to quit their job and hold up a sign 24/7 that says "this man raped me!" . They did however, often quietly warn other women. They did what they could at the time. They now have an opportunity to be believed when they speak so they are retelling their stories.
okay…amy…my life was ruined….no payday…forgive me if I don't feel sorry for the late sayers…….I don't…I feel furious…
I mean,, I wasn't offended by trumps "pussy groping:" comment…as a matter of fact….I thought he was telling the truth…JFK and Marylyn and std's and so forth…..yeah…monika luwinski taught me it was more than possible but libs put up this fake as offense>>>>AHHHHHHH like they did lay down on the casting couch but they did!!! see!!! movie stars and their political opinions don't count…they are paid.
Oklahoma city, ok…..outlaw mc…they have their own reasons for killing him but if they are still raw about it…that's where it began….he lives in bull shouls now or mountain view arkansaw….at least 10 miles from Missouri…..you're welcome if it still matters to you. he was a bouncer in a bar…he got stitches but two of you got taken out!! you put paint thinner in his vents in his house….you rewired his car which he should have been blown up in but it misfired…enough for him to get out of….there was no where in America he was safe during that time…..so he pussied out to the philpines to rape other girls…#AF.
I just love the outlaw MC…if they still exist….northeast of Arkansas….10 miles from Missouri….small town…I am NOT from their but everything he cares about is….and it's easy picking….
Ashamed says
First time ever opening up. I was raped by my good girlfriend's husband when she went to pick up breakfast the in the morning after a fun night out with a group of friends. I stayed over night in guest bed room. Not out of the ordinary. I couldn't believe it was happening. I tried with all my might to fight him off..I couldn't. I ran out after it was over and I could not tell my friend. It would have been a huge blow up. She didn't know But wondered why I left before she returned with breakfast. To this day I feel terrible and ashamed. If anyone ever violates me AGAIN I will NOT BE SILENT.
I'm so sorry. I can't imagine how awful that was and how much you've had to deal with since. Everyone who is claiming how easy it should be for women to come forward sooner should reserve one of those special places in hell for themselves.
Please don't be ashamed. The last attack I suffered was from a friend's husband. I trusted him and, like you, kept my mouth shut. I lost the friend because it was obvious I was behaving strangely. You aren't to blame. They take advantage of the friendships we have with their wives. It's cruel. I'm not sure what to say over the internet that's soothing to such a violent attack. I can only say I'm thinking of you and sending you healing thoughts and energy.
Hindsight is 20/20…no need for shame. Just say his name to people. Let it be known. If he tries to get you for slander?? maybe others will come forward. yOu can't be the first or the last. That's not their amo.
It's not a political issue. It's a moral and ethical issue. I've been a victim of these things and always felt it must have been my fault. Now I finally know it's as common as my own experience suggested. For me it's been healing.
For sure this can be a platform for women who have kept quiet in the aftermath of a sexual assault to unite and let there feelings be heard. If nothing else it's being talked about and hopefully with that comes change and more woman may feel comfortable enough to report an attack.
I think saying it's not "in" to jump on this bandwagon is disingenuous. There, I said it. I can't count how many women have admitted abuse to me during my lifetime. Nobody is going to flip a switch and make that go away, sadly. Raise awareness? Is there anyone not aware how fucked up touching someone without consent is? Seems like last week it was racists ruining the world. Or bump stocks. See what I'm saying?
I'd get in a Donald Trump/Roy Moore sandwich if I could get healthcare for less than $1200/mo with a 13K deductible. But I can't. It's one of two options offered in this state, which didn't expand Medicaid. I wish people would stop this social media outrage of the day bullshit. Tweeting back and forth should not be what is validating you. "Google it" is not an answer. Stop getting your news from Facebook. Stop having the argument of the day sponsored by Twitter. Donald Trump is a travesty? So, vote. What's happening at the polls should give us hope. I think we're beyond help, people are just too nasty to each other, but maybe change will follow. Maybe.
DebBrenn says
There will always be lowlifes and murderers, whether it be from sexual attack or a gun. But what defines our culture (or lack thereof) is how we as a society deal with the individual that crosses the line. When I hear the masses either line up to vilify the action of a politician or defend the perpetrator based on what party they support, I realize how much decency and common sense we've lost as a nation. And when a rape is downplayed but an awkward kiss is treated like murder, I feel the same.
Kiyoshigirl says
On one hand I fully applaud victims of abuse who now have the courage to speak out. For many of them this is a healing moment and for others, such as Al Franken's accuser, now is a pivotal moment in time when she has a chance to leave this world a better place for her children (her words, not mine). On the other hand, I do worry about leeches (this world is full of them) sucking on to this precious moment to gain attention, or use it to cover for situations they would like to manipulate or rewrite to suit their own needs. Before anyone jumps on me for protecting predators, know that I have dealt with giving up advancements in my own career because I stood up and said NO. Also know that I have never confronted the asshole who preyed on me many moons ago, and I regret that, because he was the type of most likely dominated others. Having said all of that, many years ago, my oldest son had a group of tight and diverse friends who struggled to get through high school after Columbine. Their high school went over board banning black clothes, long coats, skirts, etc. As parents we tried to listen more than talk, and thankfully guided him through it in one piece. As tough as that period was, his group of friends was rocked by a girl from a prominent religious family in our community who accused two of his male friends of rape. One was black, the other Filipino. Their reputations were destroyed by the media and school administration irregardless of the fact that no charges were ever filed. There are many complex details to this story (both young men were gay and in a committed relationship with each other, but not ready to come out and their accuser was hiding a terminated pregnancy from her parents). Every child in their group was forced into troubling interviews with the authorities, scared to say what they knew to be true in order to protect lesser secrets. Thanks to the sensitive but thorough work of a 1st year detective, the accuser eventually admitted that she had told her parents a lie because she was trying to cover up evidence they had found regarding her terminated pregnancy. Needless to say, the friend group was torn apart, and two good young boys reputations were tattered. Of course neither the school or the local press bothered to make sure the damage they had caused was corrected. I am still angry about the residual repercussions of that lie to this day. People do lie. My first reaction is to always validate an accuser's truth, but I know the importance of substantiating that "truth" with proof, and that's not always easily done.