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Got commissioned to draw Scarlet!
Just finished this drawing of Edelgard.
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FE3H Lords x Eeveelutions
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A Day in the Life of Heroes - Adapting to a New Realm
General SpoilerUnmasking the Master Tactician: An Analysis on Claude von Riegan (self.fireemblem)
submitted 1 year ago * by SigurdVII
Claude von Riegan has to be simultaneously one of the most popular and yet also undiscussed characters to follow in the wake of Fire Emblem: Three Houses. He gets a lion's share of the memes and yet when you search for discussions, they are largely consumed by Edelgard and Dimitri and their respective fans, or discussions about the Church about whether they were right or wrong. What I wanted to do today was to take some time to discuss Claude and draw attention to why he's one of the most complex characters in the narrative of Three Houses. While he doesn't take center stage outside of his own route, he's a key part of the game's themes and is an astonishingly strong character when given focus.
Claude's Past
As anyone who has played Verdant Wind ought to know: Claude was not born in Fódlan. While his mother is indeed a noble from the Leicester Alliance's House Riegan, she left years ago and crossed the border to Almyra, having fallen in love with an Almyran royal. Claude was born as a result of that love, but grew up under the shadow of being from two worlds. Growing up biracial, his mother a daughter of a nation of cowards and of a House that was one of their main enemies, he faced mistreatment by the Almyrans he grew up among. As he describes in his A-Support with Marianne:
Claude: Just listen. Once upon a time, in a faraway place, there was a young boy. This boy came from a despised lineage. In short, his mother was a daughter of the enemy. So the young boy was treated horribly by everyone around him. He hadn't done anything wrong. Everyone hated him simply for existing. Yelling, fighting back, explaining himself... Nothing he did could change his situation. When he was finally old enough, he ran far away from home. He escaped.
Marianne: It sounds to me like he had no choice. I would have done the same, had it been me...
Claude: Thing is, after he ran away, he still found himself in the very same position. People in the outside world hated him for where he came from.
Marianne: Well, now that's—
Claude: The boy thought he had no place to go. All he could do was destroy the boundary between the inside and outside worlds.
Marianne: Destroy the boundaries?
Claude: Right. If there was no outside and inside, just one side to share, then the people wouldn't have a reason to hate him anymore, right? It wouldn't be easy, but if he managed it, he could shrug off that burden.
One of the key differences between Claude's JP and EN versions are that in the former, Claude tends to disseminate stories about his past in the form of a third person story. This is one of the rare times in the English version where Claude does the same. In sharing his story with Marianne, he also explains his desire to free people from the constraints of borders and, in time, their prejudices too by learning about new people and new ways of living. He suffered firsthand from people's prejudices and wanted to prevent people from suffering the way he had.
However, as he noted in his A-Support with Byleth, life wasn't that much different in the land of his mother's birth:
Claude: Hey, Sensei... Will you talk with me a while? I bet you've figured this out, but I wasn't born in Fódlan. Where I come from, the people of Fódlan are looked down on as cowards. Technically, that cowardice runs in my veins. On my mother's side, anyway. That's why the people who were around me when I was growing up thought of me as an outsider. But I don't believe the people of Fódlan are cowards. That kind of perspective is just based on ignorance.
Claude: The person from Fódlan who I know best is my mother. She fell in love with a man from the wrong side of the border and had the guts to leave home to pursue that love. I always threw that in the faces of anyone who tried to make a fool of me. My mother is proof the people of Fódlan aren't all cowards.
Claude: Just saying that doesn't achieve anything, though. I need to destroy the prejudices that have taken root in my homeland. That's why I came here, to see Fódlan with my own eyes. I thought I might be able to find a new perspective that could help me change things.
Claude: And what did I find? That the people here view anyone who's an outsider as a beast of sorts. I was shocked. Even though our cultures and beliefs are completely different, our two lands have that much in common. That's when I realized the only way to change things is to bring the whole world together and start anew. That's the dream I've been working towards since I first entered the Officers Academy five years ago. To unify the Alliance, and then all of Fódlan, and to bring a new set of values to this new land of mine... After that, I'd expand that vision to the rest of the world. Break down the walls and let a new perspective come rushing in! Start all over!
It's also worth noting that the way Fódlan thinks isn't an accident. Claude mentions multiple times how racist and suspicious Fódlan is of foreigners. He goes so far as to talk about how foreigners are viewed as beasts. A sentiment that isn't contradicted considering the Church's treatment of Dedue with suspicion and scorn. As well as any appearance of Almyrans being undercover, or regarded with suspicion up until a certain point in the game. Views are also massaged or restricted by the Church with extreme suspicion. Claude's own support with Leonie reflects that, with his fear of something as benign as talking about whether the goddess blesses the crops being a view of heresy.
Claude: Eh, I dunno. I'm more inclined to thank the bountiful earth than the goddess for such things. The goddess may offer spiritual guidance, but she doesn't fill our bellies, that's for sure.
Leonie: Not a very noble-sounding thing, to disregard the goddess and honor the land.
Claude: Leonie... Whose grace do you suppose humans live by? The goddess? The nobility? I'd say it's neither. It's the endless bounty of this magnificent land that gives us life.
Leonie: Won't hear me deny it. But who's to say it isn't the goddess whose protection makes nature thrive? I'm not the most devout person, but I'm not about to go around saying we don't need the goddess at all.
Claude: I said she gives spiritual support, didn't I? I wouldn't go as far as to say she's wholly unnecessary. But in Almyra, Dagda, Brigid, and plenty of other places, they don't believe in the goddess... Nature is a blessing that knows nothing of borders. The goddess is the goddess, and the earth is the earth. They should both be revered for what they are.
Leonie: Hmm.
Claude: Look, this is just my personal opinion. If you truly believe that everything depends on the goddess of Seiros, that's your-
Leonie: Hey, it's fine. You don't have to worry about me. I'm a believer, but I know there are those who aren't. And I kind of like your way of thinking - giving thanks to nature and all. It makes sense.
Claude: I knew a wild girl like you would be able to get behind an idea like that.
Leonie: What, like I'm feral or something?
Claude: Hey... You know, this kind of talk could be viewed as heresy if it was public.
Those views are dangerous to Claude and Leonie alike. For them to have a discussion outside of what the church views acceptable is a risk. As I'll also note below: Lorenz mentions that Claude's desire for open borders and free trade directly contradicts the Seiros tenets. On top of that, a member of the Knights of Seiros notes that the "Archbishop of the time" (it isn't indicated whether this was Rhea or a proxy) was responsible for the handling of the response to Almyra's invasion, which also included the formation of the Officer's Academy. Simply put, the Church has acted to chain Fódlan in order to prevent it from meeting and making peace with foreign nations on equal terms. Such a state of affairs ensures that people like Claude cannot influence Fódlan away from the Church's teachings and as such, it becomes that much more clear why Claude takes such drastic measures.
Supreme Ruler of Fódlan
In Fódlan, Claude's reasons for becoming his grandfather's heir were quite simple. His hope is to use the influence afforded to him as head of the highest house in the Alliance to gain the power needed to unite Fódlan and in turn destroy Fódlan's Locket so that Almyra and Fódlan could break past their history of mutual prejudice. However, his above-mentioned shock of Fódlan being as ruled by prejudice as it is is also what led him to join the Officer's Academy and look for power that would allow him to rule Fódlan. His initial plan coming to Garreg Mach was to steal the Sword of the Creator. His obsession with it comes up several times throughout Part 1 including his references to it as a relic that can "split a mountain in half" before Byleth even acquires it. Afterward, he's shown musing about whether it's possible for him to use it.
Claude: The Sword of the Creator... Pulled right from the legends. I finally found it, and yet it ended up in Sensei's hands. Could I even use it anyway? Damn it. There's no telling what's to come…
While he eventually drops this goal once he becomes close with Byleth, the only reason he's able to enact his plan to unify Fódlan is due to two things:
The chaos of the war begun by the Adrestian Empire creating a power void that he could take advantage of by installing Byleth as ruler.
Byleth and the Sword of the Creator.
The problem with arguments that Claude did things "the right way" stems from a naivete that he wasn't ever willing to start a war himself. His desire to acquire the Sword of the Creator's power for himself, power that he himself describes in awe-inspiring terms is a testament to that. Claude himself admits to having come to Garreg Mach looking for power and allies in a conversation with Byleth and Edelgard.
Claude: Oh boy. I'm trapped here. I have no choice but to surrender under your intimidating gazes. My dream, in truth, is a selfless dream. But I require power to make it a reality. When I learned about the power of my Crest, I knew I had a chance. So I'm chasing that dream. To the bitter end, if need be. I came to this monastery because I thought I might find someone useful. Someone to help me on my path. So what do you think? If you promise to help me achieve my dream no matter what, I'll promise to tell you anything.
This is also why he attempts to cling to power in the game's routes by prolonging the civil war that engulfs the Leicester Alliance in three routes out of four, while still maintaining the facade of neutrality. The state of the Alliance is made fairly clear in the three different examples below from the map narration of Crimson Flower, Verdant Wind, and Azure Moon respectively:
Crimson Flower: As leader of the Alliance, Claude maintains a facade of neutrality amidst infighting between those who support and those who oppose the Empire.
Verdant Wind: In the Leicester Alliance, House Riegan leads an anti-Imperial faction, while House Gloucester directs the Empire's supporters. Despite the undeniable threat of fracture, the Alliance's adept new leader, Claude, deftly maintains the outward appearance of a united front.
Azure Moon: Intent on the Imperial capital, the Kingdom army marches around the Oghma mountains and marches through Alliance territory as they continue south. But this route takes them through the territory of House Gloucester --- Imperial supporters --- so they request help from Claude, the leader of House Riegan. Claude agrees to distract House Gloucester's soldiers, and the Kingdom army marches onward toward the Great Bridge of Myrddin to cross the Airmid River, which separates the Alliance and the Empire.
In the first example, the situation between the Alliance is based around a diplomatic conflict. When crossing the Great Bridge, Judith and the Daphnel forces are guarding it, not Gloucester or Imperial forces. Considering the proximity of the Bridge to the Empire, as well as the most Gloucester being willing to do is to not interfere with the Empire or Claude's fight, the Empire doesn't have the pressure campaign it does in the other three routes. Claude however, is the one who applies pressure to prevent the Empire's supporters from intervening in its favor according to the game's narration in Crimson Flower.
Crimson Flower Chapter 13 Narration: "Meanwhile Claude, leader of the Leicester Alliance staves off Imperial intervention by stirring up conflicts between Leicester lords in an effort to feign neutrality."
Where Verdant Wind and Azure Moon stand describes the cards Claude is dealt in the majority of the game's routes. The Empire applies pressure to House Gloucester due to its proximity to the Empire and forces it to submit to vassalage. Lorenz admits that they would have been invaded had they not done so and are used by the Empire along with Imperial forces to keep anyone from crossing the Great Bridge. Claude in turn wanting to keep the Alliance intact for as long as possible would never allow it to dissolve. Given that he submits to Dimitri's request to distract Gloucester's forces, it's fairly clear that they're already at war. It's also why Claude mentions that he's okay with Lorenz's father maintaining his ties to the Empire until he's ready to move and why he requires the facade of a new army that's not connected to the Alliance.
Claude: Naturally. And to be clear, I have no problem with your house maintaining its Imperial ties until we're sufficiently prepared to revolt. The Empire is the cause of the infighting. If we rid ourselves of them, the situation should resolve itself.
His actions in Crimson Flower are also a reflection of his willingness to capitalize on any situation. Given that Claude himself was infiltrating the Officer's Academy during Part 1 concurrently to what Edelgard was doing, it would seem that on some level they're natural allies. When Edelgard declares war in Crimson Flower, it's against the Church. She sends manifestos to every noble in Fódlan so that no one is ignorant of why she's taking a drastic course of action. Dimitri's response upon returning to Faerghus is to ascend as king and then in turn swear fealty to Rhea. He directly inserts himself into the war.
Claude, on the other hand, takes a different course of action upon replacing his late grandfather as the head of the Leicester Alliance; he blocks sympathetic houses such as Gloucester, Ordelia, and Edmund from directly joining the Empire. He also positions himself as the flagship of the anti-Imperial faction alongside Houses Daphnel and Goneril. He manages to keep the Empire out of his affairs for five years until Byleth returns, which leads to the Great Bridge of Myrddin being seized, Claude responds by shutting down all traffic in Derdriu and calling in the Almyran Navy as reinforcements for his final stand. This of course is a possible interpretation of his calling in the Almyran Navy, but had Edelgard committed her forces to Faerghus, he was in a perfect position to strike at Garreg Mach and Eastern Adrestia, while Nader's forces could sail directly into Faerghus and take advantage of the fighting between the Empire and Kingdom to eat away at its territory. But any plans he had end up falling apart due to Byleth returning making it possible for the war to be tipped in the Empire's favor. After he's defeated (and if he is spared), he ultimately admits that he packed up the Alliance for Byleth and Edelgard's use and that he'd hoped to become Fódlan's supreme ruler. His willingness to let go in this case being that he expects his dream will be realized by them. He's a graceful loser when it suits him.
The Embodiment of Distrust
One of the things that seems keenly misunderstood about Claude is just what kind of person he actually is. His personality has largely been consumed by the memes that have sprouted up in the wake of the game's popularity, as well as him having the appearance of being a benign figure alongside more obviously traumatized personalities such as Edelgard, Dimitri, and Rhea. Which is a shame since his character is a lot more multi-dimensional than people seem to be willing to believe. He calls himself "the embodiment of distrust" after Byleth rescues them and Byleth, in turn, observes that Claude "has a smile that doesn't reach his eyes". There's good reason for that.
The personality Claude presents, or rather the mask he wears throughout most of the game has swallowed most of the subtext behind his actions. Part of that is also down to the English translation of the game amping up his casual nature (i.e. instead of calling Byleth "Sensei" like everyone else, he calls Byleth "Teach"). However, it also drastically tones down the more ominous parts of his personality. For one, his willingness to use violence as a solution is played down. While JP Claude wants for everyone to survive, he's quite clear he's okay with doing what he views as necessary in order to win. This includes his musings when he reunites with Byleth in the Goddess Tower that it would be better for everyone if Rhea remained missing:
「だが、レアさんが大司教として再臨するのが果たして良いことなのかどうなのか・・・いっそ、このまま消えてくれたほうが・・・あーいや、危険な話はやめとこう。」
Claude: But I don't know if it's going to be good or not for Rhea to be here again... in fact, it'll be better if she would just forever continue being missing.... ahh let's not talk about dangerous things now.
In a follow-up of this conversation in Chapter 14, the subject of whether Claude believes Rhea should be dead is handled differently. JP Claude is quite clear he thinks a world where Rhea is dead is one he wants to see, while EN Claude dances around it.
Byleth: 「死んでいて欲しい?」 クロード支援値アップ
Claude: 「危ないことを聞くな、あんた。正直に言や考えたことはあるが・・・難しい質問だよ、本当にな。ただ、彼女にはいろいろ聞くべきことが残ってる。 ...(explains all the knowledge they are missing that only Rhea can answer)...
Claude: だから、そういう意味では、レアさんには是非とも生きててほしいよ。
Claude: 一方で・・・フォドラの情勢って意味ではレアさんがいない世界も興味があるんだ。
Byleth: Do you wish for her to be dead? (Claude's support points go up)
Claude: Asking me dangerous questions, eh. Honestly, I have thought so before, but... it's a difficult question, a really difficult question. It's just that we still have so many things we need to ask her. ...(explains all the knowledge they are missing that only Rhea can answer)...
Claude: That's why, in that sense, I do hope she is alive.
Claude: On the other hand... if I were to consider Fódlan's state of affairs, I have more interest in seeing a world without Rhea.
And in the EN version
Byleth: Do you hope she's dead? (Claude's support points go up)
Claude: That's a dangerous question, Sensei. To be honest, I've given it a lot of thought. All I know is that I still have a lot of questions I need to ask her. (explains all the knowledge they are missing that only Rhea can answer)...
Claude: In that sense, I absolutely hope Rhea is still alive. But as far as Fódlan goes, I do wonder what a world without Rhea would look like.
Claude's willingness to use violent language and indicate his willingness to violent ends also extends in his discussions in more metaphorical matters as well. His support with Marianne contains one of the more overt instances of it.
Claude: The point is, people are born with burdens to carry. That much is undeniable. But whether they bind us or we cast them aside... that's up to us. So I think you should try to cast yours aside, Marianne. Put that heavy burden down. It's time.
Marianne: But I...I don't know if I can do it...It's this one.
And with the above Marianne support, in the JP version the words "bind" or "cast aside" are replaced with "destroy". Marianne is disturbed by his use of the word "destroy" to describe the boy's intent of tearing down walls, and even repeats it in shock. The overall point being that Claude's a lot darker of a character than he presents himself as, which isn't too surprising factoring in that he was raised as an Almyran, and still regards himself as such even as his grandfather's heir. This, of course, means that he's willing to do what he believes is necessary in order to fulfill his dream.
One of the few surviving instances of Claude's willingness to use violence is in regards to how to handle Edelgard. Before they enter the Imperial Palace, Byleth asks Claude whether they can walk the same path as Edelgard. In the English version, this is his response:
Claude: She's a fellow student to all of us. If there's a path that we can walk together, that would be preferable. But that all depends on Edelgard. If she won't yield, then that's that. If showing pity would put my allies in danger, I will not hesitate to kill her.
In the Japanese version, this is his response:
Claude: 情けをかけて仲間が危うくなるくらいなら、俺は躊躇なく、あいつを討つ
Claude: It's up to her, but if compassion endangers our allies, then I won't hesitate to shoot her down.
The difference is a matter of degrees. Japanese Claude says he'll shoot her down (attack/kill). English Claude is direct that he'll kill her. Both in response to the idea of what they would do if their compassion should endanger their friends. This is one of the rare instances where the JP and EN versions align.
Fear the Deer
This, of course, extends to the treatment of the people he considers his friends. There is one thing that I will clear out of the air before continuing. Claude does care about his friends and values their lives, he goes out of his way to protect them in achieving his goals. However, one thing needs to be made clear though: Claude will do what is necessary to achieve his goals.
While Claude has friends within the Golden Deer House, they're notably extremely different from the other houses.
The Black Eagles are a mash of various nobles, a princess from a foreign country who is a "permanent guest" of the Empire, and a former songstress trying to find a husband. While there's a lot of clash between their personalities, Edelgard tries to be friends with all of them and values their friendship deeply if you head into Crimson Flower. Blue Lions is the one most composed of preexisting relationships with most of the members being friends of Dimitri, or know people who are close to him. The exceptions to this are Mercedes and Ashe, who are a former Empire noble and the adopted son of a lord respectively, but even when they don't fit within the preexisting dynamic, they still fit within Faerghus's twin planks of religion and chivalry.
The Golden Deer House is quite different in that with the exception of Raphael and Ignatz, there's very few preexisting relationships there. Raphael and Ignatz are already friends, but that's it. While Claude, Lorenz, Hilda, and Marianne are all rooted in Alliance nobility, they're not close to each other like Faerghus's nobility, nor are they even familiar with each other like Adrestia's nobility at Garreg Mach. In particular, Lorenz doesn't trust Claude and keeps tabs on him, while Marianne and Hilda are largely disassociated from it all. It's also not helped that Claude himself is a void as far as his past and does everything possible to keep his secrets, while working over everyone else. In particular, one of his reasons for getting close to Hilda is to gain access to her brother Holst when he becomes his grandfather's successor, so as to enact his plan to make peace with the Almyrans. While this has a great deal of utility given that the Almyran reinforcements save the plan to infiltrate Fort Merceus, Claude also still refuses to come clean with the fact that he's Almyran. He admits to knowing Nader, but not that he's from Almyra.
Lorenz: Claude. It is time for you to explain. Why are you so close with an Almyran general?
Claude: Well, he did quite a bit for me when I was younger.
Lorenz: When you were younger… So, before you joined House Riegan. How and where did you meet him? There aren't many opportunities to meet a general from Almyra in Fódlan...
Claude: If that's what you believe, it's only because that's what you've been led to believe. After all, we have Cyril here among our allies, and he was born in Almyra.
Cyril: Hey, now. Don't drag me into this.
Claude: There's a big wide world outside of Fódlan, and it's overflowing with different places and cultures. You think interacting with outsiders is odd, but isn't avoiding contact with the outside world far more unnatural?
Lorenz: Don't change the subject, Claude. To the people of the Alliance, the Almyrans are---
Claude: It's true that there's a history of hostility, but why should that mean we're doomed to remain hostile forever? The Almyrans aren't monsters. Just look at Cyril! Does he look like a monster to you?
Cyril: Hey, just what's that supposed to mean?
Claude: Right, Sensei? What did you think when you met Nader?
Byleth: He's a reliable general.
Claude: Ha! I'll tell him you said that. And I'm sure that if all of you got to know him, all of your preconceived notions would change too. I know you guys, and you aren't the type of people to reject someone without trying to get to know them.
Hilda: But… how did those Almyrans even get past Fódlan's Throat? I doubt my brother would just let them pass without saying anything…
Claude: About that… I actually made sure your brother met Nader in advance.
Lorenz: What?! Lord Holst met with an Almyran General?
Hilda: Oh, so that's why you were so interested in my brother. But wait, they're supposed to be bitter enemies! They've fought each other several times before!
Claude: I know. It was a big gamble. But rather than having me to try to convince them myself, I knew it would be easier to just have them meet. They were taken aback at first, but sure enough, they hit it off. They were even drinking to their newfound brotherhood before parting.
Judith: It makes sense. If you take the greatest heroes away from the battlefield, of course they'll get along.
Hilda: Fighting one minute and drinking together the next… Men are so weird!
Claude: Ultimately, someone's bloodline has nothing to do with the friendships they forge. Relations between the Alliance and Almyra is a matter we'll tackle in the future. Still, I want to take this opportunity to make one thing clear to all of you. After we defeat the Empire, I intend to tear down the walls that separate Fódlan from the outside world. I want to let people and goods come and go freely, and in doing so, eradicate prejudices about the outside world.
Lorenz: Would it even be possible to achieve such a thing? It directly contradicts the Seiros tenets.
Claude: Does it? I'm not so sure. In any case, I'm prepared for the inevitable protests and criticism. New ways of doing things are always met with resistance.
The key thing to note about this is that while Claude explains his motivations and make clear he knows Nader personally, he does not explain that he's Almyran. While he trusts his friends, and makes clear that he believes they can make value judgements about people without descending into Fódlan's amped up racism, he also has to put his mission in front of his feelings. Notably Claude doesn't reveal he's Almyran until after the game's end when he returns at some point having ascended to the throne.
Fódlan's New Dawn
As noted above, his initial goal in arriving to Garreg Mach is to take control of the Sword of the Creator, which becomes more achievable when Byleth acquires it. He admits as much to coveting Byleth's power and wanting to use them in their S-Support.
Claude: I have something else to ask. Please... I hope you'll accept this. When I first saw you wield the Sword of the Creator, I wanted to use your power to my advantage. I wanted to use you to make my dream of a new world come true. But before long, I realized what I really wanted was to see that new world... with you by my side.
That obviously changed though once he actually got to know Byleth and became close to them. One of the missing aspects of Claude's character (and one I'm frankly sentimental about) from the Japanese version is that just before the invasion of Garreg Mach, Claude declares Byleth to be his 兄弟 (kyoudai) meaning "sibling". It's a declaration of just how much Byleth means to him, which given how important family is as a concept to Claude, as well as his isolation from the people around him is pretty intense for him.
Notably though, he still uses Byleth to his own ends from using them as the leader of the Resistance Army with the Crest of Flames as a banner, in order to ensure the Alliance can't take advantage of the unification of Fódlan, which means Byleth becomes King/Queen of the newly unified continent. However, it's also a sign of growth. While he had once hoped to conquer Fódlan for himself, as he admits to Byleth and Edelgard in Crimson Flower, his ability to trust in other people is what made him place his faith in his sensei and allow him to move forward into the future. His trust in Byleth is what allows him to leave Fódlan behind so that he can reach out from the other side as the Almyran King. And if their S-Support is reached, that includes saving the new United Kingdom in a comeback victory against the Adrestian Empire remnants and Those Who Slither in the Dark.
The takeaway I would like to present is this. While Claude hides his identity as an Almyran and has goals that go far beyond simply winning the war, he still places his friends and their safety first. In the end, he trusts Byleth to make his dream come true. It's also his unwillingness to let Byleth duel Nemesis alone that allows them to win. By distracting Nemesis with a goading speech about friendship and taking a hit from someone who took down Holst like an afterthought, they win. He makes the shot that allows Byleth to kill the former King of Liberation and in turn liberates Fódlan from the shackles that had kept it restricted, which, admittedly, is still Claude being a schemer.
Credit to u/omegaxis1, u/missingpuzzle, and u/skylxtumn for helping with the construction of the post.
EDIT: Added in an additional segment from Chapter 14 regarding Claude's belief that Rhea should die.
best (suggested)
[–]SableRhapsody 76 points77 points78 points 1 year ago (5 children)
Great post, OP. About the perception of Claude:
His personality has largely been consumed by the memes that have sprouted up in the wake of the game's popularity, as well as him having the appearance of being a benign figure alongside more obviously traumatized personalities such as Edelgard, Dimitri, and Rhea.
IMO, he's a bit like Margaery Tyrell from Game of Thrones. (Talking about TV Margaery here, since she has a much more prominent role.) Like Claude, Margaery is quite cunning and manipulative, happy to use others for her own advancement. But Margaery and Claude both benefit from the people around them appearing so much worse by comparison, and from their own manipulations being relatively bloodless. No one's gonna complain about Margaery when Cersei's running around, and likewise, Claude does seem rather benign compared to the other faction leaders.
Personally, I thought this was a rather clever narrative trick in both cases, since it lulls the audience into a convenient false sense of security along with the characters in the story. Claude is aggressively charming in Verdant Wind, and it's easy to forget that behind that charm lies the guy who wanted to cut down the mountains with the Sword of the Creator. IMO, it gave the moments where Claude tips his hand (the arrival of Almyran troops, his angry confrontation with Rhea) a lot of narrative punch.
[–]SigurdVII[S] 44 points45 points46 points 1 year ago * (4 children)
That's definitely a good comparison. And you're right, it does work as a disarming tactic for him to be fairly casual. The JP version plays that up similarly in Part 1 with Ingrid mistaking him as being like Sylvain (when he drops the act and isn't being flirty) because they both act in a casual fashion using very loose pronouns around her, which is why she gets angry at him initially. It helps especially when he's played against Edelgard and Dimitri who both wear fairly self-serious masks.
Though where it falls for me is it barely drops. The EN version files down both the tender and more ominous parts of his personality. While not all of it vanishes (i.e. Rhea, his willingness to kill Edelgard, or his Marianne support) it's hard not to feel like there's a lot missing. It's a problem with TH's localization in general, but Claude gets hit really hard with it. So it ends up being kind of easy to miss just how much he's puppeteered everyone around him, even post-TS. Mind you, I adore Claude. Partly because characters like him who aren't always ultra positive and POC need to exist, so this is all coming from a fan here.
I tend to stick with dubbed/localized versions whenever I play games from Japan, so it was definitely interesting seeing your comparisons between the versions. I wonder why the EN version tones down some of Claude's dialogue when, say, Dimitri's whole scene about torturing Randolph is still very upsetting even in the EN version. Clearly the maturity of the content isn't the issue, otherwise a lot of Azure Moon would be out the window.
In general, I felt the EN version of 3H left a lot of the characterization "between the lines," so to speak. It's on the player to figure out what's up, and players draw different conclusions based on which routes they played first, and what information they have. Generally I like that the game doesn't spell out who's good, who's bad, and why. However, I think that approach has also contributed to some of the genuine confusion in the fandom, as well as some of the wilder misinterpretations of characters, so it's a double-edged sword. Add the slight but significant differences in localization, and the variety of interpretations is really wild.
[–]SigurdVII[S] 15 points16 points17 points 1 year ago (2 children)
It's sort of a problem with the game as a whole honestly. For the most part it's a fairly 1:1 translation. But sometimes they'll make tweaks that honestly don't make sense (i.e. Claude dropping kyoudai for my friend), or the inability for English to compensate for certain concepts (i.e. how the game uses the text to show how passionately Edelgard views Byleth in Black Eagles. I don't want to detract from this topic, but this post covers it.) Some of it is understandable though like the Church of Seiros borrowing from language pertaining to Catholicism to more directly draw a connection between it and the Church of Seiros, that's a bit of a hand grenade-y subject, and they carry it over by being more direct. And to be clear, for the most part I don't have an issue with the localization, but in a game as swiss watch precise as Three Houses, those small differences add up.
[–]mikee1317 8 points9 points10 points 1 year ago (1 child)
Yeah I would have been fine with "My brother" or "My sister" or just straight up "sibling". Now that you mention it, that is an odd localization change to have "My friend". I think that's another reason people miss out on some characterization. I mean I can see people having trouble reading between the lines of "My friend" and "Teach" and how that transition of how he addresses us signaled a sense of a bond and trust considering when you choose a house, we just assume everybody including Byleth, the house leader, and members are all friends now. Idk if I'm forming my thoughts on this matter correctly so I hope you get what I am trying to say.
[–]SigurdVII[S] 6 points7 points8 points 1 year ago (0 children)
Nah, I get what you're saying. The problem with "my friend" is the same reason "dearest friend" is just awful in Edelgard's S-Support when she's already declared she and Byleth are like family. We already assume that Byleth is friendly with Claude is because with the exception of someone like say Hubert, Byleth is friendly with everyone. Claude also tries to be (or at least maintain the appearance of) friends with everyone. There's no real relationship upgrade, and family as a concept is extremely important to Claude like it is for Edelgard. It isn't as if the concept of saying someone is like a brother or sister to you is uncommon outside of Japan either.
[–]mikee1317 35 points36 points37 points 1 year ago (0 children)
Honestly I hate when people say Claude is a Mary Sue. You described this very elegantly. My thoughts exactly. The tone may shift for Golden Deer overall and Claude may provide levity for the player, but even I could see it was a front. Heck he even tells Dimitri they weren't cut from the same cloth and that he'd ask a favor if he had something to gain. Whereas Dimitri in Azure Moon would put his life second. Also Claude is VERY perceptive. He may not know exactly what went on with Dimitri but that scene at Deirdru where he described Dimitri's struggle in a nutshell caught me by surprise. He said "And remember both the living and the dead cling to us without any regard for our own lives. It's up to us to break free of that weight and follow the path we believe in."
[–]DaeinsNationalDebt 20 points21 points22 points 1 year ago (1 child)
Cyril Analysis; Part two. Electric Boogaloo.
For real though dude, holy shit. Fantastic post on Cyril's No. 3 Fan. Further cementing my favorite 3H lord by miles at this point. It's not that I don't like the other ones. Claude is the honesty and the clowning yet the serious undertones that I like.
Also as much as I'm not huge on Leonie, the girl's got big redacted for just agreeing with Claude and not trying to hide anything from him. So shoutout for Leonie to be about to sniff out church BS. I do like how Claude and Leonie are agnostic though. Not that Golden Deer is the most faithful house, Marianne/Ignatz have faith. Lorenz prays because he knows that's what the commoners do (at least to my understanding, he's pretty neutral on faith) I don't know if it states how Lysithea feels. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I have to admit, I don't like Cyril that much personally. Partly because he ends up being a flat character on first impression and because his borderline self-loathing of home (while understandable) is something that's way too familiar to me. That said, it is pretty heartbreaking watching Claude try to reach out to someone who's just like him and look hurt when Cyril isn't too keen on reminiscing about Almyra in a positive fashion. Though their B-Support gives me some hope.
Also yeah, Leonie gets some really good supports with Claude, so it was nice to put a spotlight on her here, as well as how an ordinary girl like her would clash with Claude's big picture vision. And as far as Lorenz, he admits that his faith is pretty much another thing he has to check off on the list of things you do to be a good noble.
[–]Big_D4rius 19 points20 points21 points 1 year ago (1 child)
This is a good post. I wonder if the differences you noted between the English and Japanese localizations made that big of a difference, but I personally felt the narrative didn't do as well a job "developing" Claude as a multi-faceted character as it did for Edelgard and Dimitri (in the sense that a good amount of details about his character were given to us via direct exposition, telling vs. Showing). The Japanese version using more "ominous" language in his dialogue would definitely play a part in making the player realize a lot more easily that his smiles are mostly a facade. I still think he's an excellent character, albeit a bit undercut by the narrative not doing a particularly good job of really fleshing out both his strengths and weaknesses.
As I noted in the post above, it's a problem with the game as a whole having trouble either with compensating for certain concepts, or flat out changing stuff. For the most part it carries over well, but those small differences add up. I didn't have trouble following it personally in the English version, but part of why this post took so long to write is because I had to do comparison between EN and JP dialogue in order to spot the differences and see what concepts weren't being communicated. With Claude in particular, he gets some of his more violent tendencies shorn, but also his more sentimental side (like how he views Byleth) which does hurt him somewhat.
[–]Thanni44 15 points16 points17 points 1 year ago * (0 children)
I appreciate this long analysis and a further look into his dialogue and supports and the state of the Fodlan with the later in particular my knowledge feels limited on. It is wonderful to see more post regarding Claude. It is also interesting looking at the differences between the Japanese and English text, which not everyone has the luxury for. For some reason Claude's intent and more duplicitous nature and actions were pretty clear to me when playing the whole game in english which is why I'm surprised when I went online to see he's painted as a person just standing around doing nothing or taking his cheerful, casual front as his whole personality when Claude is pretty damn hard working and intelligent with all intentions of not sitting idly by.
[–]Super_Nerd92 14 points15 points16 points 1 year ago (1 child)
Great post! I played GD last of the 3 so I was already infused with a lot of the fandom discussion of GD being the meme house and Claude being the best person of the 3 lords, etc. And arguably he still is, but there was a lot more nuance and depth to his cunning, which impressed me. I wonder how dark he would have gone if he had been backed into more corner, as he is in CF.
I think I agree with your hunch that CF Claude, had he won that battle and taken out Edelgard, would probably have taken advantage of that fact to attack. And it'd be really interesting to see how he handled the Holy Kingdom + Rhea at that point. I'd guess he might sue for peace, but only because he'd already have what he wanted - unquestioned control of the Almyran border.
[–]SigurdVII[S] 8 points9 points10 points 1 year ago * (0 children)
Given that he straight up admits to wanting to conquer Fódlan to Byleth and Edelgard, I'm skeptical that he'd stop there. He doesn't want just the Almyran border, he already has that. But that's all speculation at that point. Though I do wonder how Claude would act if he were backed into a further corner. By comparison to AM, CF is him getting what he wants even if he's not the one to see it through. (If he survives anyway)
[–]YoutubeHeroofTime 13 points14 points15 points 1 year ago (1 child)
It seems like the English translation, while mostly great, doesn't butcher things as much as it makes certain things less clear. You can get almost all of these details from the English version, but you have to pay attention. Whereas in Japanese they make it much more overt and obvious. It's the same with stuff I see being talked about in this thread, such as Edelgard's unique way to address Byleth. They have her call you "my teacher" and act very attached to you, but don't explicitly spell it out in the text like they do in Japanese. Anyone can pick it up, but not everyone will like they do in Japanese because it requires a bit more effort from the player in terms of paying attention and actually absorbing what's going on. Though for the El sensei thing I think that's more of an English limitation, so we can't blame Treehouse too much there. Claude's sibling way to address Byleth getting downgraded is a shame, "my friend" isn't a strong enough substitute for that. It'd be like if Edelgard called you professor all the time instead of my teacher. It still works and you can pick up on the deeper relationship in other ways, but it lessens the impact. Would you say Claude got hit the hardest by the translation? It's still not a big deal, but it seems like he got toned down/changed the most. Edelgard got changed somewhat too, though other than her S-Support (which really only screws up a few phrases), they did about as well as they could with her given the Japanese to English language limitations for her unique sensei word. She is a bit more stern in the English version as well, though that doesn't seem to change her character's perception or portrayal most of the time except for some scenarios like Jeralt's death where people ignore her words because her tone isn't as tender and comes off a little too stern/cold. Though unfortunately for her, the few scenarios where she is noticeably less tender can give people who are not already fond of her the wrong impression, perhaps souring their view of a character they weren't very fond of to begin with. Having played in English and read many things on here about the original Japanese version and its intentions, 95% or more of the time I think the Edelgard intended by the Japanese version is presented properly and most people on here seem to understand her character and where she is coming from emotionally. Though there are some notable exceptions that can feel somewhat out of character due to mistranslations or a change in tone or direction, which has led some to misunderstand her character's personality and feelings. Whereas with Claude people seem to think he's much less cunning and deceptive than the Japanese version lets on. He's portrayed as much more of a chill dude in the English version. You can still see his true nature, it's just not nearly as clear as in Japanese. I'd bet people would be less surprised and angry at him for asking Byleth for Jeralt's diary in the Japanese version, as he has more clearly displayed those cunning tendencies in that version. None of this ruins the game or translation, but it can make certain scenes or character actions a little less clear than in Japanese. I totally understood the Edelgard the Japanese writers intended despite a few discrepancies here and there in English, while I'll admit I had no idea Claude was more upfront and ruthless in the Japanese version. I can see now why he is called a schemer in game, he was much more driven and determined than the English version let on. He's still great there, though I'm glad I read this for context. A bit of a shame they changed some of his more ruthless traits in translation, it makes him a stronger character and gives me a view on him that I didn't really have before. He's still the same character, but this certainly adds some valuable nuances to him.
True enough. Though in regards to Edelgard, I think the problem is both a matter of compensating as best as they could for "shi" not being a concept in English, and quite simply that Tara Platt's voice direction was ill-thought out. Christina Vee (I listened to the E3 trailer recently) is way more in line with Ai's positively tender performance and I get the feeling things would've been different had she still been in the role.
And yes for the most part Claude is intact from his JP version. The problem is more that he's overplayed as chill, which means his more distinctly ominous moments are omitted or missed.
[–]goldtreebark 11 points12 points13 points 1 year ago * (1 child)
This is a really nice write up. Personally, I don't think there is a huge discrepancy between the way English Claude is handled vs. Japanese, especially regarding the Rhea point, but the way I'm viewing this could definitely be something of a semantics issue especially regarding the dialogue and how it's regionally interpreted. The one thing I am always most interested in is even if those nuances that get lost in translation will even have the same impact that they do for their intended audiences and vice versa.
The "kyoudai" bit is interesting too. I always felt that it was meant to demonstrate the difference in values that Claude personally has from the common mindset of Fodlan, one of the many cues the game subtly attempts to show that Claude is unique in amongst the cast, as opposed to the overt way it is done with characters like Dedue and Petra. Perhaps in Almyra, for example, to call someone a brother or sister is a demonstration of a bond that is highly valued in his culture. I can also see why this would have been difficult to directly incorporate in English, probably to avoid making Claude seem like Hulk Hogan, lmao. So, this bit was definitely something that indeed got lost in translation, and wasn't really recovered.
What I like about Claude's story, however though, is that he really does have to navigate through Fodlan's deeply embedded xenophobic/racist culture in a way without outing himself to it, and so looking at his predicament becomes more of an examination of subtle prejudices, which is a very prevalent experience and honestly I feel a lot of that goes missed from the fandom from what I've seen and what it's like to live in it, so it's interesting to see a game kind of tackle that issue in its admittedly limited way. It's also refreshing that Claude as a character is allowed to be somewhat cynical of this situation and maybe even a bit resentful about it, if we can interpret that from how he initially treats others. In contrast, I feel like they really fumbled this in regards to Dedue.
And you know, one of the things I was kind of disappointed in playing VW was that I felt we didn't really get to get anything with Claude's distrust of Rhea. I feel in the end, when they find Rhea, he has to suck up any particular misgivings he has for the good of everyone else and Fodlan to get the information that's necessary, and honestly that's for the better, and may have shown growth on his end, but I still would've liked to have explored that a little. but I'm a lil biased cuz I liked that he had the balls to say he'd rather prefer Rhea not be around lol
Regardless, I feel that even a little more than with Dimitri and Edelgard, there's a lot of Claude that is never really explicit, even in both versions, (though there is quite a lot of ambiguity to all of them) so there's a lot about him that can really fly over and under the radar in the case of interpretations and hypotheticals, but I think that's one of the points that makes him interesting, especially when people put forth the effort to read a little more in between the lines.
[–]SigurdVII[S] 8 points9 points10 points 1 year ago (0 children)
Thank you for your take on it. I really do appreciate that people have been enjoying the write-up. Claude is a character that I really feel a great deal of commonality with, and I've been hoping for more serious discussion about him. So as it turns out, forcing the topic was the right thing to do in this case lol. As far as your points:
1) It's not especially different so much as they file down more overt instances of his willingness towards darker thoughts, or his feelings coming through in a way that aren't casual. The real differences are the reduction of his use of third-person stories to talk about himself, and the discarding of his sibling relationship with Byleth.
2) That's possible. The problem I have with it personally is that calling Byleth "my friend" isn't really as intense as how Claude views Byleth in the JP version and it isn't something that's uncommon outside of Japan. Speaking personally, I have friends that are as close as family to me and call them "brother/bro", etc. It's just this really sentimental and sweet thing that tells you just how much his sensei means to him.
3) Yup. That's the major thing I like about Claude, vs why I have issues with Dedue. Dedue isn't really allowed to be the center of his own story in terms of Duscur, it's usually filtered through Dimitri and other people, and he's usually burying his feelings. Claude is allowed to have his moments where he trusts people like Byleth enough to drop his guard, but also rationally guard himself and be cynical about his situation, especially when the case in Fódlan is that he has every right to be wary of who he trusts. It's something that's easy to empathize with him on given how insidious IRL racism is.
4) I think his talk explains it well. While he definitely hates Rhea and would be just fine if she died, he also still has questions that only he can answer. He at least gets to vent his anger at her for still trying to bury her secrets. In the end it's a win/win for him since he gets the answers he wanted and she's no longer in power.
5) Yup. And I feel like in general that's why discussion has stalled for so long. The forest being missed for the trees. But I'm glad it's happening now.
[–]Lunallae 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago (1 child)
This is a great analysis! I really liked reading the differences between the Japanese and English version of Claude. I actually did play Verdant Wind once in Japanese, but a good portion of it was above my level of Japanese comprehension so I still missed a lot of the nuances. I did notice the "kyoudai" part though and it did feel that "friend" wasn't a very accurate translation. Reading this also makes me wonder if Claude's individual usages of "teach" and "friend" have additional meanings... As I remember it, he flip-flops back and forth between those two words when talking to Byleth post-timeskip (and I think he does the same in Japanese as well). I originally felt that when he uses "friend" he is being genuine... but he uses "teach" in his A-support so I don't think that adds up. Maybe it just corresponds to his mood/attitude in the moment he addresses Byleth? Anyway, just something I'll being pondering...
I also like your point of Claude clinging to power. It was actually not a point mused over a lot before, but it makes sense to why Claude isn't willing to give up the Alliance without a fight.
It's weird because he calls Byleth "Sensei" like everyone else in the JP version. I assume they were trying to go for a more casual vibe for Claude. But dropping the sibling bit definitely obscured the nature of how he views Byleth.
And yeah it has shocked me how no one pays attention to that. It's one of the few distinct things about him. In every route he does his level best to hold the Alliance together, but the why is never really asked.
[–]King_Obama0294 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago (1 child)
Fascinating write up, I really enjoyed Claude's character and your essay has made me appreciate him even more. Something I've been pondering for fun is, what would have been Claude's plan to unify Fodland and change the church had Edelgard not launched her attack? Would Claude be willing to start a continental war to unify Fodland?
That's presumably what he wanted to steal the Sword of the Creator for. To force Fodlan to bend the knee. Otherwise he really had no way to exert force on the rest of the continent.
[–]triggerpigking 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago (0 children)
This is really good!, Claude's been my fav character in the game, so seeing some of the lost details from the Jap version and getting context for some more is interesting.
I do think it's a bit of a stretch to say he would start a war by himself though at-least as an initial plan anyway, while he's definitely not opposed to violent action it does seem to be more as a last resort if he can't talk his way out, what's more given Fodlan's power structure, him having the sword of the creator alone would give him a lot of political power to attain his goals, not just due to it's overwhelming power but also because of it's nature as basically the ultimate crest weapon and what that would say about Claude as it's wielder.
I have no doubt that he does capitalize on those violent situations when he can though to further his goal.
Overall he actually reminds me a lot of some of the more ruthless Doctors in Doctor Who such as 7 or 12, overall he has noble goals and will try his best to attain them peacefully, but he's not past manipulation and violence where he feels it's absolutely necessary.
[–]ArcherUmi 5 points6 points7 points 1 year ago (5 children)
I honestly don't know how I feel about English Claude vs. Japanese Claude. I really don't know if I would have liked him as much his more cynical side was played up as much as it was in Japanese, though I feel like I'm in the minority there (honestly, Claude's friendship speech in the E3 trailer was what really sold me on him as well as what made me love the Verdant Wind despite finding the TWSITD/Nemesis endgame kinda weak, and I feel kinda alone on that one) and you could argue that it makes him a more nuanced character and less clearly the "good guy" (not that he's totally a straightforward heroic figure in English either) in comparison to Dimitri, Edelgard, and Rhea.
Which, speaking of Rhea, what I really don't know how I feel about looking back (and seeing how much more explicit he is about thinking Fodlan would be better off with Rhea dead in Japanese) is his views on her. In hindsight it kind of makes me like him less honestly, since I'm generally pretty pro-Rhea, but I think I might've agreed with him at that point in Verdant Wind since her exposition speech in the endgame was the biggest influence for me changing my mind on her. Which I guess probably makes me a sucker but who knows.
[–]SigurdVII[S] 10 points11 points12 points 1 year ago * (1 child)
You have to consider who Claude really is and why he would feel the way he does. For him, Rhea and the Church are one of the major reasons he can't live freely and openly as an Almyran, or be the person he actually is since those are things that could literally get him killed. At that point, one of his biggest obstacles to making Fódlan a more tolerable place, and one that would be willing to open a dialogue with Almyra is gone. So yeah, he's not particularly sad if she's dead. He talks to Byleth in that same conversation about how Rhea's disappearance means that Byleth as the leader of the Church in her stead has a unique opportunity to use the power afforded to them to reshape the Church for the better and undo the damage that Rhea has done with it. That's part of why he spends so much time building the Resistance Army around Byleth and ensuring that the Leicester Alliance can't take credit for the victory of the war. He trusts his Sensei to do it for him.
And notably, his friendship/empathy is still there. If anything it's more intense. He calls Byleth (kyoudai) his sibling as a symbol of how much he trusts them. But he's also capable of dispassionate decisions. It doesn't mean that caring is any less real. But as someone who's suffered from racism myself, Claude is one of my favorite characters precisely because his response is quite a bit different from the expected one.
[–]ArcherUmi 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago (0 children)
Yeah, I do get where he's coming from. I have some quibbles with it and I'm not sure he's necessarily right, but that's not worth getting in to. Regardless, it's an interesting analysis and I'm glad to see Claude getting a closer look given how much ink (metaphorically) has already been spent on Edelgard, Dimitri, and the Church.
[–]henyouyisi 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago (2 children)
You should probably cover the spoilers that you mentioned in your reply (;-__-)
[–]ArcherUmi 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago (1 child)
I usually go by anything that's mentioned in an OP is fine to leave untagged in the comments and the essay itself already mentions endgame Verdant Wind stuff. It's kinda weird since when a thread is tagged as a spoiler the body of the message is still behind a spoiler warning after you open the thread so I've never felt 100% sure whether or not to still tag things, but I do think it's a reasonable standard. Regardless, I'm sorry if you got spoiled.
Oh no worries! I didn't get spoiled but it was just my interpretation that something like that may or may not be something important to cover
[–]kremihildgretchen 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago (1 child)
i thought claude was lying to Edelgard when he said his goal was to become the supreme ruler of fodlan because he tells dimitri (who he entrusts failnaught to) ""That's why I became the Alliance Leader to begin with, actually. But it left me no time for what I was really after."
[–]SigurdVII[S] 9 points10 points11 points 1 year ago (0 children)
1) He wasn't lying. Crimson Flower is the closest he ever comes to being honest outside of his own route. That's why he spells out the fact he's Almyran for Byleth, he has no reason to lie since he trusts Byleth and Edelgard to see his dream through. He also could've continued the war, but chose not to. That's why he isn't bargaining from a position of weakness. Their goal is fairly similar to what he'd intended. Though his plan involved using the Sword of the Creator to his own ends and then transformed into uniting Fódlan around Byleth.
2) That's overestimating how much Failnaught means to Claude. He isn't from Fódlan, it's just a tool to him along with his Crest. Things he can use to get what he wants. You also have to remember how hostile the bad blood between the Leicester Alliance and Faerghus is, that's why he calls it "putting it back together." It's an oath of fealty from the descendant of the Riegan who screwed over Dimitri's ancestors and rebelled in the Crescent Moon War. It's also why he isn't honest about where he's from. For now he's just lucky to escape with his life since Dimitri is the reason his plans fell apart. Failnaught itself is also left behind in CF considering that one of the plot points (that sadly never gets followed up on) is Arundel stealing it and Friekugel for some reason.
[–]MikaHaruka 1 point2 points3 points 11 months ago (0 children)
I am very late to respond (and also because I finally made a basic alt for this name), but this was a very informative post! Thank you for making it those 3ish months ago!
I can certainly enjoy aspects of EN Claude as he is, but the level of nuance and depth, and some of the outright differences between him and JP Claude are truly stunning. Between Claude and other characters like Edelgard and Hubert...it seems like a number of characters had their personalities changed to such a drastic extent.
Your post will be very useful for any translations I plan to do going forward, and I am definitely understanding his headspace a little more easily, seeing as I've only played in EN (barring a few supports and other clips in JP).
I've been unable to play with JP audio, since I can understand it and it clashes with the EN text...but I will definitely want to play in JP soon, so I will definitely plan on changing my Switch language to Japanese soon. Perhaps after the DLC passes in a week.
[–]MintyLime 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago * (5 children)
Removing prejudice where everyone can be equal, starting anew, not believing in the cult. Sounds like he should have joined Edel.
Edel was set on creating a society where your pedigree or crest doesn't matter; where the success matters purely based on their skills and abilities rather than bullshittery of nobility and crest crap.
She was also set on building a good diplomatic relationships with all countries and people such as Brigid and others. She didn't care what bloodline or homeland people come from.
Claude is failed character due to the devs' inability to come up with some actual great schemes or strategies that he's supposed to be so capable of.
He just ended up as being more a troll that doesn't appear to have a clear goal or a strong ambition, and instead just being a pain in the ass as a third wheel that distracts you from going full force against the main opponent. I guess that was part of his plan too, o keep things under control without blowing it up too much, but the only thing that accomplished was just dragging the wars on and on and causing more casualties and setbacks.
Feeling of him not taking things seriously can also be seen when you beat him but spare his life. He just pretty much shrugs off and leave never to be seen or heard again. What the hell is that? Why would you waste all those years being a pain in the ass if you were just gonna casually quit everything, decide to cooperate, and go poof? Could've just helped out from the beginning especially if his "goals" seem to match with Edel's.
As much of an El fan as I am, that's an unfair criticism to levy against Claude. The entire focal tragedy of the game is that if any of the three lords had trusted each other, they could've worked together. Claude and Edelgard in particular *do* have similar views, but they also have no reason to trust one another. Edelgard has no reason to reach out to someone she barely knows and when she does, Claude pretty much gives her an impossible demand before he'll comply. Up till that point, he had no reason to believe he could trust anyone in the pre-existing structure, especially when you consider that outing who he is could literally be the death of him.
But it's also worth noting that they both acknowledge the compatibility of their beliefs in Verdant Wind. But it was too late by then. In terms of where Claude's head is at in Crimson Flower, it's notably the only other route where he hints at being Almyran. He practically spells it out for Byleth when he's defeated. The whole reason he left the Alliance intact is because he realized that Byleth and Edelgard would be able to make his dream come true. At that point his goal is to return to Almyra as he does in Verdant Wind to make things possible for him and whoever is on the other side of Fódlan's Locket to work together. What changed his belief is Byleth. In every route, the only person who he gives the benefit of the doubt to is Sensei.
[–]mikee1317 6 points7 points8 points 1 year ago (3 children)
Honestly, I've been wondering what if they did a split path for Golden Deer. I mean even if Claude ultimately wasn't a fan of her methods on that route, I believe that once Byleth got yeeted to the dark realm, that is when he realized how important this person was in his life. So he would begrudgingly join the Empire with Byleth if we had a choice. I mean in general even though we aren't teaching Edelgard's class in GD, I don't think Byleth's about executing 18 year old students on a whim, but Edelgard just warps out of the scene before Byleth can even make some type of decision. I mean technically even in Crimson Flower the choice is "Protect Edelgard" and not "Join the Empire" and judging by Rhea's reaction for protecting her, she assumes Byleth has betrayed her. I mean heck, Byleth doesn't even want to kill Edel in timeskip so why would he attempt to execute Edel pretimeskip via Rhea's orders? Anyways, both Edel and Claude realize their goals are similar in both Crimson Flower and Verdant Wind so I would have found it intriguing if he joined the Empire as a choice. After all, he is a "Graceful Loser" as OP said and so as long as his dream is fulfilled even if its not directly by his hand, I think he would be satisfied. It's why in Blue Lions too, where it is implied he goes back to Almyra, he tells Dimitri they should meet up after years have passed to probably work on the whole foreign relation thing with Dimitri.
That's an interesting question with a really sad answer unfortunately. I mentioned above about aspects of JP Edelgard that don't quite play in here, but since it's relevant here I'll go into detail. Edelgard has a unique view of Byleth that nobody else has, just like how in JP Claude calls Byleth 兄弟 (kyoudai). Everyone in the game who's a student calls Byleth 先生 (Sensei), Edelgard in Black Eagles however calls Byleth 師 (master) with the phonetics for Sensei written on top. The short version is that she essentially views Byleth as more than a teacher and more like a mentor and a whole swirl of other things into one. Point being her view of them is extremely passionate and steps beyond the boundaries of being a student. They try to capture that with her changing the way she talks about Byleth from "my teacher" to "professor" outside of her own route, but it's too downplayed to really work IMHO.
Anyway, I noticed this while in the process of research, but Edelgard doesn't call Byleth that outside of her route, just plain old 先生. They're not close in the way they are in Black Eagles and while she may have a crush on or even love Byleth, they don't really know each other. The route split in Black Eagles is explicitly foreshadowed and coded as an act of love, so it doesn't make sense here. Given that Claude and Edelgard don't trust or know each other either, they have no reason to work together. Claude in particular doesn't understand Edelgard's motives till later on in Verdant Wind, and in Crimson Flower he's still trying to cling to power so that he can enact his vision. It's Byleth's presence that changes his mind in all routes.
As far as Blue Lions... I don't think he really hints at that at all. While he does say he plans to return someday, he specifically avoids hinting at who he really is. Crimson Flower is unique in that reason where he spells out to Byleth who he really is. With Dimitri he has to still hold his cards tight since while he has no choice but to hope he wins, escaping with his life is really all he had left since the Leicester Alliance is finished.
[–]mikee1317 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago * (1 child)
That's all true, but I guess I didn't think about it to that degree that you have. I especially mentioned an Empire split for GD because Claude isn't a fan of the Church either, but I guess in this case he just doesn't know better in terms of trust and in terms of power. He is still under the impression at the time of the Church's power maybe being greater than the Empire's. I mean after all even though we as Golden Deer were protecting Rhea, we also see Dimitri in the cutscene so I can assume that Claude thought going against the Church would be risky considering pretimeskip most of the Alliance is probably with the church and Knights of Seiros by default, as well as the Kingdom.
Plus in timeskip he basically sides with the church out of convenience and personal gain especially with "Minty Green Haired Jesus" on his side
Yeah, unfortunately Claude had no reason to trust Edelgard, nor did he want to pick a fight with the church before he was ready. He does side with them out of convenience, but he also flat out tells Byleth in the Chapter 14 conversation I cited that as the Church's leader they can make positive changes to undo the damage Rhea and the Church have done to Fódlan. So he ended up getting lucky. Byleth's presence is in turn why he has the confidence to try something different and form the Resistance Army around Byleth. But yes, culturally he couldn't go directly against the Church since most nobles by default don't mess with it. That's why the Sword of the Creator would be a way for him to force everyone to obey him.
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