What's your opinion
Davy51 replied to Stallard12's topic in General Chat
In the modern era with the need of being able to go everywhere ,door to door by car is it pedestrianisation schemes that are also killing town centres & also helping to boost internet shopping ? Where i live ,more shopping happens at most shops outside of pedestrian zone hours when people can park outside where they want to shop.
asperity replied to Stallard12's topic in General Chat
Funny how it's the people wedded to car use complaining about the people who are wedded to car use 🤔. "But, but, but I NEED to go by car, all these other people don't NEED to go by car, they should use the bus".
Mz Krankie again -
asperity replied to Observer II's topic in Political Soapbox
I think you mean "obsession" rather than "phobia" Obs 😉.
New Railway Lines
Latchford Locks replied to Latchford Locks's topic in National/General Issues
Guess Maggie can be blamed for lots but not this total inept idea from the early 1960's Apart from it being overseen by the then Misguided Tory "think tankers" .....Some things in life never change
Observer II posted a topic in Political Soapbox
Seems Scotland wants powers to increase immigration "into Scotland" - call me cynical, but I think the real motive is to change the electoral demographic to get her Independence phobia over the line. btw, what makes them think such immigrants won't head for London at the first opportunity. Don't fall for this one Boris.
Observer II replied to Latchford Locks's topic in National/General Issues
It was under Maggie - and Nicholas Ridley was busy allowing "out of town" (car dependent) retail at the same time. Guess the wheel has turned full circle.
Latchford Locks started following New Railway Lines Yesterday at 11:57 AM
Latchford Locks posted a topic in National/General Issues
I see that the government has given £500 million to get an old line back in service around the Fleetwood area and I can't help but think what damage Dr Beeching did with his ill thought plan to castrate our great British rail network of yesteryear. I'm convinced that the roads would be relieved of all the horrendous congestions we now endure on a daily basis. All those articulated wagons clogging our motorways would probably halve and commuters, would have the chance to get the train into Warrington from Heatley/Lymm/Thelwall(for an example) is just a start to the great opportunities we would have. Oh Doctor Beeching what ever did you think you were doing!
Observer II replied to Stallard12's topic in General Chat
It's a habit that won't be cured, despite the ranting and raving of the tree huggers. What they promise is a life of economic austerity, whilst the majority prefer the comfort of the car, despite being stuck in traffic queues for ever longer periods. Meanwhile, the kids (our future) are equally wedded to being taken everywhere, check out the school run.
Bill replied to Stallard12's topic in General Chat
Given the choice, most of us would prefer the convenience of a car, however councils seem to disagree with this and prefer us all to use bikes and public transport. But given they can't force us to use the bus, they instead do as little as possible for the motorist, even to the point where it looks like they're deliberately trying to make it more difficult for private car owners to get around. Fast forward to 2050 where we're all electric and most of the environmental arguments won't exist. People will still prefer to own a private car over a shared-self-driving Ubermoiles but either way, the lack of foresight means we'll probably still be on roads designed for the horse and cart, traffic lights designed by five year olds and still not enough parking places. Clearly our planners should have watched the Jetsons when they were kids rather than Bill & Ben! Bill
Obs, I would question your conflating the parking problems of the hospital with the town centre planning. Perhaps the best plan would be to knock down the whole of the town centre as it is now and build a huge hospital in its place. Then surround the mega-hospital with acres of car parking served by electric busses a la Disneyworld Florida. This comes to mind: https://youtu.be/xWwUJH70ubM
The love in with the car continues Dave; that's why Greta is flogging a dead horse. And the Politicians know it.
I think at the time there was a national love in with cars & nobody at the time ,in planning terms ,foresaw what problems they would cause 50 years in the future. Public transport was probably expected to disappear altogether.
Didn't say N/T was a developer; it provided the planned infrastructure; which was a "T" shaped alignment linking it's new housing developments, thus ignoring and not integrating with the existing Town - a radial system would have been preferable. The Planners did have plans that attempted a vision for the TC, but they were forgotten with every individual planning app by developers, with politicians valuing expediency over real planning. What by and large we got was cheap lego sheds of no architectural value, piece meal development, without any general integration and improvement of the townscape. As for the car, it dominated planning, meaning that major venues didn't have to be sited along major (bus) routes; thus sealing the dependency on the car and consequent car parking (EG the Hospital).
Evil Sid replied to Stallard12's topic in General Chat
I always thought nostalgia was exactly what it used to be.......🤔
Confused52 replied to Stallard12's topic in General Chat
If not referring to an earthquake the dictionary definition of epicentre is: The central point of something, typically a difficult or unpleasant situation. Seems fair. Obs, the New Town was not developer led at all. Each development was based on a plan and a delivery contract with the New Town or the CNT, exactly like the arrangement now in the South with Homes England (the successor to the New Town). The development at Chapelford was actually led by the Government too through the sale with lots of conditions by the Ministry of Defence. This idea that everything is developer led is mischief from those that want to return to council housing as the norm which they wrongly believe was the case before. The scale of Golden Square was originally set incorrectly in my view. The shop units were set too small to have sufficient range of stock for the size of town Warrington was set to become. Equivalent sized towns had larger units and this may have been the consequence of the rejection of the New Town even then. The extension had larger shops but by then there was a mismatch between the rents for a central Warrington shop and the takings it could provide. The constant animosity towards the car, partly caused by the inadequacy of the road network, means that it became easier to shop outside the Town Centre. Not everyone can do a weeks shop and get it all home on the bus! What really kills shops off is pedestrianisation where the area is not one with a unique selling point that means that folk still want to walk there. The problem is that planners see successful pedestrian areas such as the old centres of places like York and attribute the success to the pedestrianisation instead of the eclectic mix of shops and tourist appeal. Where is the place in Warrington Town Centre that you cannot stop people wanting to go such that putting barriers like pedestrian areas will not stop them? The council are betting on a cinema, restaurants and their own offices as well as the Market being such an area, that is the driving notion of Time Square (along with free offices for the Council) so we must hope that it works. The number of users will probably be larger than anything in the recent past.
The Town is called Warrington, it's epicentre is the TC.
There's more to a town than just its centre. Where I live isn't part of the New Town project, in fact my house was built in 1932.
Your not wrong Stall; most Northern Towns are now ghost towns incl Warrington. New Town was grafted onto the outside of the Town like a polo mint, with a linear road system feeding the need for a car, out of town retails centres built like lego land, while the TC rotted away. Likewise, residents were encouraged to the periphery, depopulating the TC. Golden Square literally moved the TC to the NW, Leaving the rest abandoned. All development has been developer led, making it piecemeal, without any attempt to any overall integrated plan.
Yes Stall, I know what you mean. Nostalgia isn't what it used to be unfortunately.
Stallard12 replied to Stallard12's topic in General Chat
As I said Asp, just flowery language, cos I was having difficulty putting my feelings into words. Maybe I'm wrong, I believe it happened once before, don't want to make a habit of it. I just know that the town center, with the traffic circle, flower beds and Montague Burtons felt like home. Buses scraping sides on Sankey Street, walking up Horsemarket in the drizzle and waiting at the bus stop seemed better when it wasn't pedestrian only. Maybe Im just getting old, I was 81 this week, still playing sport and traveling the world, but maybe nostalgia is becoming more intense.
Where do I find character in Leigh exactly? In my view the problem with Warrington started when the New Town was disbanded and Terry O'Neill and his acolytes put the brakes on necessary development for decades having already stopped the road schemes that supported the existing development and all the future stuff too. It caused the overheating of house prices in the south as houses in the New Town area had to be attractive to those with jobs in Manchester and Chester so that the traffic mostly went towards the M56 rather than over the swing bridges, the new high level crossing being scuppered by the council. That problem in the south was made worse by the designating of everything that could be as Green Belt, even though much of it was not envisaged as such by the Cheshire County Structure Plan, which effectively created our Green Belt. It was done by the Lib Dems to protect the south from further development and protect the inflated house prices. Meanwhile every square foot of the North was developed but the expressway that was promised by the council when Junction 8 of the M62 was built never happened. Protecting Orford Park was more important than fixing traffic chaos. Being a New Town was a chance to get it right but the council fought against progress every inch of the way.
Your "East Germany" comparison is way out to be honest Stall. Warrington is a very large town and, by all accounts, very successful economically, with some parts rustic. Something for everyone if you like. I've been a Warrington resident for over 30 years and am generally happy here.
A perfect storm -
Davy51 replied to Observer II's topic in National/General Issues
That was amazing,Bill, looked like a video game with all the diggers.
Stallard12 posted a topic in General Chat
In the fifties I always thought that Warrington was much more of a complete, homely, family town than places like Leigh, St Helens, Widnes and every town in Yorkshire. Maybe it was the accents or maybe the level of grime or the color of their buses. Thing is, from what I have seen, all of the Lancashire towns have suddenly got character and Yorkshire has the prettiest villages, while Warrington turned into East Germany ! Please don't be mad, I'm just using Obs ' flowery speech'. My opinion is that it is all the fault of Warrington being designated a New Town. What do y'all think? Would you rather it had slid into rustic, or is economic benefit worth the result ?
Bill replied to Observer II's topic in National/General Issues
So did you see their plans to build a brand new 1000 bed isolation hospital from scratch? They reckon it'l be ready in a few of days! Bill :}