KaijuWorld #TeamGodzilla
Jan-20-2018 5:13 AM
Mechagodzilla is one of if not the most iconic of Godzilla's enemies. With the release of "Godzilla monster planet" which also included Mechagodzilla, I wanted to make a topic about why, when and how Mechagodzilla could fit into the Monsterverse. I know that the expansion of the Monsterverse is right now only matter of time and seeing if the upcoming movies are successful enough (for which I'm crossing my fingers for), but let's just imagine more movies are on the way.
First, lets talk about why Mechagodzilla should be in the monsterverse. Mechagodzilla is part of the Toho top 5 (the rest of the list includes Godzilla, Rodan, Mothra and King Ghidorah). Mechagodzilla seems to be the number 2 of this list in recognisability (obviously after Godzilla) according to the people that I know at least. You don't have to be a hardcore Godzilla fan to know this kaiju. The idea is pretty easy to understand and the idea of Godzilla fighting a robot version of himself will definitely make people get their attention. Especially seeing that Godzilla has really become popular over the last decade. Mechagodzilla could also fit in really nicely in the Monsterverse and might even be set up for Mechagodzilla to join. Later on this in the "how he could fit in" part.
The only problem that with adding Mechagodzilla in the Monsterverse is "pacific rim". Pacific Rim is getting a sequel very soon and people who want to see Mechagodzilla join are afraid that pacific rim might overshadow the idea of giant robots fighting monsters. When Mechagodzilla joins, people might be like "oh, another giant robot fighting a monster". I think this problem could be solved in 2 ways. 1 is to stop making pacific rim movies and let Mechagodzilla in 2023 or something join. That way people will be like "this we haven't seen in like 5 or 6 years". The 2nd way of doing this will be explained in the "how he could fit in" part.
Now let's talk about when Mechagodzilla should be added. Legendary tried to sign a contract for all of the top 5 Toho monsters. Out of these monsters and Mechagodzilla was the only one that didn't get and I think we finally know why. In "Godzilla monster planet" Mechagodzilla is present and will be more focused on in the sequel. This might be why legendary didn't get Mechagodzilla, because Mechagodzilla already was planned for the Toho movies (at least until the "monster planet" trilogy is over). This is also the reason why Toho can't make any live action Godzilla movies until after 2020's "Godzilla vs Kong".
Back to Pacific rim argument, I think that there have to be a few years of space between the next pacific rim movie and the introduction of Mechagodzilla. I think a gap of 5 or 6 years should be enough.
My conclusion is that Mechagodzilla should be added in Godzilla 3 in 2023 or later. Maybe this is a bit of a big gap between 2020's "Godzilla vs kong" and this movie to keep the Monsterverse fresh. So what I was thinking is adding in 1 or 2 movies in between like a Mothra stand alone movie or a "kong 2".
Now finally let's talk about how Mechagodzilla fit in the monsterverse. I have a couple of ideas starting from most to least likely.
The first idea is by using the origin of Mechagodzilla 3/kiryu. For the people that don't know the origin of Kiryu, I will give a short explanation. Mechagodzilla/Kiryu was made by the humans to fight Godzilla and defend Japan. This version really took the realistic problems of making a giant robot like fuel and broken parts during the fight. This version of Mechagodzilla also explained why Japan would make a robot that looks like a Godzilla instead of just making a death star or something to kill Godzilla. Its because this Godzilla was made around the skeleton of the original Godzilla. This origin makes the most sense in my opinion and it looks like legendary might have accidentally set this origin up because in the beginning of 2014's Godzilla you see a giant skeleton. If this is a Godzilla skeleton is up for debate. if it is a Godzilla skeleton than it could go like this. monarch and military agree on taking the monster problem in their own hands. They take the skeleton with them and turn it into a robot to fight monsters that might attack the world. Of course, this is just a simple explanation for the idea and you can defiantly create your own reasons why they would make a giant robot and how an entire story could be based on this idea. Just use your imagination. This is, in my opinion, the way to go.
The other idea I had is the 2nd way Mechagodzilla could avoid the pacific rim problem and that's by crossing over the 2 franchises and making Mechagodzilla a Jaeger. I don't really know how this would work, but it would make sense of "the giant robot looking like Godzilla problem" and the "Pacific rim taking the giant robot movie spotlight problem". Personally this is not the way I want to see this happen, but it's a way none the less.
This is the end of the forum. I am really hoping for the Monsterverse to be successful and can't wait what the future might bring to it. But hey, if dc can make about 5 movies with only 1 or 2 being good movies, I think the Monsterverse should too.
Any opinions are welcome and maybe you can make some of your own theories about how Mechagodzilla could fit in.
Godzilla: King of the monsters is one of the best cinema experiences I have had in quite a while. Go see it now whilst you still can.
32 Responses to how to include mechagodzilla into the monsterverse
G. H. (Gman) #TeamGhidorah
Jan-20-2018 11:41 AM
I've never been too worried about the "how" necessarily. If Toho and Legendary want MechaGodzilla featured in the MonsterVerse, he'll be featured in the MonsterVerse and that's that. It's less about plausibility and more about what sells.
"It wouldn't be a true Godzilla film if you didn't touch upon those things. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not a true Godzilla fan." - Mike Dougherty, fellow gatekeeper-elitist ;)
TheGMan123 #TeamGhidorah
I'd say the best way to introduce Mechagodzilla is to not have him be an Earth creation. Or at least not entirely of Earth.
Based on what promotional material we've seen thus far for the next major installment of the Monsterverse, Godzilla: King of the Monsters, it seems as though this film is an attempt to branch out from the "prehistoric giants of Earth long past". We even saw some of this branching out with Kong: Skull Island and its supplementary material.
With the Kong example, we have the Iwi, their rituals, and the particularly strange wildlife seen and discussed in the fluff. And with the third installment into the Monsterverse, we have Mothra, whom has a lot of mysticism being attached to her, and King Ghidorah, a being whom has hints towards non-terrestrial origins. That last one is key, here.
Based on what has been displayed by Humanity thus far in the Monsterverse, a giant mech is out of the question for the time being. To introduce one so soon is a major tonal and lore-based dissonance. However, if King Ghidorah can be smoothly introduced as an alien organism, we have some more to work with. The three-headed dragon could serve as a gateway for more outlandish sci-fi concepts and ideas to be introduced, INCLUDING more general aliens.
And with aliens, we can get all sorts of things: alien mechanical engineering and alien materials science. Perhaps start to seed in the idea of intelligent aliens, and then create fictional materials and/or building techniques not of Earth that would speed up the process of actually creating a functional giant mech. In fact, let's combine the OP's idea with mine. By combining unearthed alien materials and engineering knowledge with the structural support and biological data obtained on the Godzilla species, Humanity could potentially create a Mechagodzilla if given a decent amount of years of R&D.
The Jurassic Bootleg
I would just have Godzilla 3 be set in the far away future(50-100 years later).
Godzilla Generations was a beautiful game! I loved the fact that there's a laser cannon inside of Dr. Serizawa's eyepatch.
riggzamortis86
Have mecha-Godzilla be alien.
That would give MG back his alien roots. the Kiryu idea is great as well. Still must be alien.
I would never give way to any pacific rim movies however. Pacific Rim is paving the way for giant monsters right now. Unless KOTM is the best monster movie since Shin then move over PR, but until I see the new PR and if its good. then keep em coming. Don't put it on the back burner
There is plenty of room for MechaG and PR.
YOU.....DUMBBELL!
MinecraftDinoKaiju #TeamGodzilla
Isn't that going away from the realism of the Monstervers, though? Also, while it is till cool to see something about Mechagodzlla in the Monsterverse and using the Kiryu version as an example, I honestly see it more like this: just like in the Heisei Era, assuming it isn't too beat up, Monarch and the military salvage King Ghidorah's body, "cyborgize" him (not sure what the actual term is), basically create Mecha-King Ghidorah, he gets defeated by Godzilla, the salvage whatever they have of Mecha-King Ghidorah, and create something similar to Mechagodzilla II from the Heisei Era, and there you go,Mechagodzilla in the Mosterverse. Love the Kiryu idea, but the "King Ghidorah - Mecha-King Ghidorah - Mechagodzilla" idea seems more likely considering the direction they are going for currently in the Monsterverse.
Why not mix both? Like, have Monarch use the Godzilla skeleton and reuse MKG's parts to make MV MechaGodzilla? It just sounds interesting to me.
There's that word again. "Realism". We need to stop using that word to predict anything about the Monsterverse here. Nothing about Godzilla, King Ghidorah, or any other MUTO in this universe are never going to fit into any kind "realism" here. The object here is "Believable". Godzilla and the MUTO's are "Believable" in this monstervese, they are not anywhere near "realism". Throw away any part of that thought process out the window if you want to enjoy these films. Because if you want to use realism as a point of conversation then I can point to any University on this planet and the professors there will tell you that none of the monsters in this films will be in the same textbook for realism.
Aliens could be possible for the reasoning behind both King Ghidorah or any kind of Mechagodzilla that could be fathomed for this movie universe. Its a far fetched one I admit, but when you add King Ghidorah to the mix(mind you a 3 HEADED MONSTER with 2 TAILS and 0 ARMS), aliens cant be far from context now.
I can totally agree on that. Realism is not the problem here. Obviously there are borders to realism, but it is more about the way you present/execute it. Marvel and dc both have things that are unrealistic (for example groot or superman) and it is working for them (for marvel at least). Also sometimes you have to throw realism out of the window to make a good/fun movie. Wouldn't be much of a movie if Godzilla collapsed and died ones he came on land even though that would be "realistic" now would it.
Also that idea of the Heisei era MechaGodzilla could also work.
I recently had the idea for Mechagodzilla to be build by humans and aliens. I know that they would have to introduce alien life into the monsterverse for that to happen but I think it could work. Maybe monarch is being helped by aliens without them knowing. after Mechagodzilla (MechaGodzilla would be controlled by humans at this point) has fought Godzilla (maybe Mechagodzilla even wins), MechaGodzilla gets taken over by the aliens and gets used as an alien weapon. This way we would have both origins of Mechagodzilla in one.
It would be interesting if aliens have been frozen along with King Ghidorah, and the aliens become unfrozen along with Ghidorah. Maybe the aliens are in some kind of hibernation chamber in a space craft near the monster and wakes up thanks to Monarch. The aliens maybe wanted to try and stop Ghidorah and crashed along the monster.
Then thanks to the alien engineering the aliens help Monarch create a super monster robot to combat Godzilla. Thus the creation of Mechagodzilla. That would be interesting. Just throwing out ideas. I just cant see Monarch(who have been struggling to stay afloat as an organization all these years) all of a sudden have the influence and funds to just say "ok, our solution involves a giant robot fighting Godzilla" and our government just says "you had me at giant robot, lets do it!"
It seems to me that even though Monarch performs great cover ups and somewhat secret gov't support, that they don't have much say over what happens to the MUTO's once they wreck havoc. In 2014 they lost command on how to deal with the male MUTO once the monster escaped their clutches. The military took over operations right away and had Dr. Serizawa and company along as advisers. Even that had limitations on Dr. Serizawa's opinion on the matter of using a nuclear bomb to both attract and destroy all the monsters. His opinion was ignored.
Now one might argue that since the attack in 2014, Monarch might gain more influence over MUTO related decisions, but Monarch is led by scientists' not the military. So I highly doubt that Monarch might have much traction and resources to influence anybody on building a giant fighting robotic Godzilla over 350ft high. Unless with the help of extraterrestrial beings that can make there space craft into some kind of makeshift mechagodzilla. I know it seems contrary to my point but that what Monarch seems to me.
To further prove my point, Monarch didn't have much rank in the decision to fight against Kong back in the 70s. Monarch seemed to be more of a joke.
Just saying for the sake of this conversation of possibly having Mechagodzilla in this Monsterverse, aliens seem more plausible for the creation of Mechagodzilla more than Monarch gaining any support to build a giant robot.
This all really reminds me of "invasion of Astro monster" with aliens being on earth the whole time and working with humans but eventually turning on them and using their monsters against them. Maybe the aliens could take the bodies of King Ghidorah and the male muto into space and turning them into cyborgs as well. King Ghidorah could become Mecha-king ghidorah and the male muto could become GIGAN.
just think about that. Gigan and the male muto have a lot of similarities, for example : the big red eye, they can both fly, hook like hands and a detail nobody thought about "the place were the muto got stabbed". The place were the male muto got stabbed was in his chest leaving space for the saw in gigans stomach.
mind blown!!!
^I must admit, even though I doubt that scenario would happen here, that would be awesome! I could see a Gigan MUTO. if I were a comic book writer I would take that idea and run with it.
There are still MUTO body parts lying around after the fight. What will become of them? That is if we are going off the same idea of a Kiryu narrative.
Also instead of monarch getting the help of getting aliens could be changed into the military getting the help from aliens. I could see that happening way more than monarch. The question is if the aliens are going to reveal themselves to world and help earth or stay secret and secretly helping the military with MechaGodzilla.
Also if aliens are going to be introduced into the monsterverse, I want them to be classic Godzilla aliens like the xilliens, the kilaakians or the black hole planet 3 aliens.
I am positive the current Hollywood trope would to make the aliens look nothing like its earlier Japanese toho counter parts. They will either look very human or like the ones from independence day or something like that. But they wont share any of the wardrobe that the Xillians or Kilaaks or the Simian black hole planet share. That trend is outdated by Hollywood standards. Im sure if there were to be aliens introduced they would not share anything that resembles or similar to the classic toho style of aliens. Unfortunately I might add.
Legendary doesn't have any rights to the aliens from Toho that I am aware of. So Im sure if there is another movie after GVK featuring aliens, they wont be anything of resemblance to our favorite alien foes of the classic movies.
^ Good point, but you all seem to forget that there are aliens in the Godzilla: Planet of the Monsters anime trilogy. Now, I'm not saying that Legendary should use these or just have rip-offs of these. What I'm saying is that that might be the most modern you could get humanoid aliens (although the Xilliens from Final Wars still look cool to me, even if it's been 14 years). And btw, when I was saying "realism", I meant "believability" (or something similar).
to be fair if Mechagodzilla and aliens are going to be introduced into the monsterverse, it will be in 2022 at least. at this point, the anime Godzilla movies would have ended for 4 years. maybe that time gap is enough for it to not to feel repetitive? that might just be a big guess.
it might even get worse if the aliens in the anime movies turn out to be evil as well and use Mechagodzilla against the humans. now then we have ourselves a problem.
Wasn't there a theory about that second part? As for the first part, I feel like that might be plausible. Heck, I'm thinking about this topic in general and thinking, "If it is possible in the Monsterverse (the closest thing to a universe with a IRL Godzilla), would it be possible to create Mechagodzilla IRL?". Ignore the other giant monsters and their plausibility of existing IRL (Seriously, you won't believe how many things I have seen saying Godzilla would collapse and basically die out of water IRL.) and just think about the plausibility of Mechagodzilla, especially if his purpose is as a military weapon. How plausible would *that* be?
we will find out soon if the aliens are evil seeing as the next 2 movies are said to release this year.
also, the anime Netflix movies aren't as well known as the current American Godzilla movies. the anime is only being screened in Japanese cinemas and on Netflix and seeing as the people that watched the anime on Netflix are probably mostly Godzilla fans. the American movies are screened all over the world and are getting much more attention. this likely means that if the anime goes the same route as what we are predicting, it won't even bother the casual movie viewer if the American movies would have the same plot with Mechagodzilla.
btw it isn't something new to see the Godzilla franchise using alien invaders over and over again.
Ok. And what about the part of the plausibility of Mechagodzilla's existance in IRL (aka the second part)?
you said the American movies are the most IRL Godzilla movies, but I think shin Gojira is way more IRL. shin goes and explains so many things like what you said about him collapsing when he comes ashore. shin has become so IRL that I can't imagine any other kaiju joining that universe.
but here is the thing, shin is not trying to be a fun movie. it's just trying to be as IRL as possible and trying to get the spirit of the original back (which they did in my opinion). the American movies are trying to have fun with the ideas they come up with. sometimes realism needs to stay aside to make a fun and great movie.
pacific rim has giant robots, whilst being trying to be realistic (although I think the monsterverse can do even more IRL with giant robots than pacific rim). marvel and dc are doing the same with being IRL. In my opinion, the monsterverse can definitely come up with a way to put both Mechagodzilla and aliens in this grounded universe and make it believable.
I think we should give Aliens a break from live action stuff.
But Shin doesn't fully explain everything. They just make the situation believable and above all relatable to Japanese audiences.
Shin just goes into the fact that Godzilla is the most evolved being on the planet to summarize his abilities. It is no where near like the way fans are trying to theorize how Legendary is operating.
aliens are being used a lot. but as I said in my original forum the monsterverse doesn't need aliens to make Mechagodzilla. I do see some flaws now I think about the idea of Mechagodzilla without aliens, but if legendary finds a way to do Mechagodzilla realistically without aliens I will be impressed.
but then again aliens have become such a trend recently with sci-fi movies in general.
and about the American movies being more theorized about, well that is the thing. the American movies are more popular than shin and people are expecting a lot from it including a new version of Mechagodzilla. people are really hoping to see more of this universe and what it can bring. mechagodzilla is up there in the "Toho top 5" for a reason.
^I cant disagree with anything you said there.
I'm just trying to point out things that could work. Aliens and Mechagodzilla just make sense to me. Why would we build a giant robot to fight a monster when we can fit all of mechagodzilla's weapons on military vehicles or planes? Im trying to bring in some kind reasoning behind the need for a giant robot in the Monsterverse. If you have a giant robot, aliens cant be far from the story. I mean why not!?
Any situation with Mechagodzilla is going to be a stretch in this Monsterverse. Might as well add aliens to the mix to be able to expand the universe for more monsters to be added in possible sequels.
I might have a possible reason for the military not using the same weapons for Mechagodzilla on regular tanks and planes. I think it is because the only way to hurt these MUTO is by pure strength. You saw what tanks and planes did to Godzilla, Kong and the MUTO's and that is nothing. The only way these Kaiju can be hurt/killed is by pure strength of something as big as them (aka mechs). You need to fight fire with fire.
Also, tanks and planes need pilots and when you have a lot of pilots getting killed by these Kaiju, the military wouldn't have much left. The military needs something else to deal with these situations. something that doesn't need many pilots to control (and even control from a distance) and can take the battle to somewhere were the kaiju can't cause any deaths or damage.
btw, there just so happens to be a Godzilla like a skeleton (from the first scene of the 2014 movie) that can support all of that weight of tons of metal (maybe the skeleton possesses regenerative capabilities). I am just saying.
@KaijuWorld Is this forum done, or are you still going to improve on it?
I don't think so. I think it is pretty good as it is right now. I will be answering any questions that are asked on this forum though. depends on what you mean with "improve". Why are you asking?
Again, it's because I have come across forums like this where it seemed like a long time since the last time anyone replied to them. Just saying that it feels unsettling that a good forum is just left to waste for a long time on this website.
osa25pancer
Movie about godzilla for example 3 can start on 2200 year and future humans make reconstruction of fight godzilla and new MechaG and maybe create portal to 2020 year ( like king ghidorah from 1991) and now we are on the middle on movie when scientist analise godzilla fighting agains king ghidorah , mothra and rodan and make concept weapons agains godzilla. And now godzilla go to destroy one of nuklear generators when army try stop godzilla new mechagodzilla land behind godzilla and start fight, after a fiew time fight godzilla and "Anty godzilla" godzilla back to the sea and maybe new kiryu with future pilot join to earth defence force
Thats a idea
Luis M
I think that if a crossover with the Pacific Rim universe happens it would be way better... And have Godzilla reappear in the future before the events of Pacific Rim and have a Godzilla and MechaGodzilla team up against some kaijus
Cecegames02 #TeamGodzilla
Dec-15-2018 11:57 AM
I agree we need a good modern Kaiju game. the 2014/2015 Godzilla game was a let-down for me because It's only 1 player. Alex Merdich's Daikaiju Battle Royale is fun, but it gets boring after a while and playing 2 player is hard. I think I'll make a post about a modern Kaiju game.
"Now I am become death, the destroyer of worlds."