The Washington National Masjid
As many readers already know, Dymphna and I are Episcopalians. We are admittedly hanging onto the church by the thinnest of threads — mostly because we like our small local parish — but we are still canonical residents of our diocese, the ECUSA, and the Anglican Communion.
That's why I almost didn't post about tomorrow's momentous event at the Washington National Cathedral. It gives me the creeps. It causes me to despair for my church, and for Christendom in general. And it makes me deeply, deeply angry.
The administrative leaders of the Episcopal Church obviously have no idea what it means to allow their building to be used a place where formal Islamic prayers take place. Or maybe they do, and they don't mind. In any case, once Muslims have said their prayers as an assembled group, the structure becomes a masjid, a mosque, and the property of the waqf board, the Islamic trust for the Ummah. The local Islamic community may decide to defer taking formal title to the building until their numbers in the Washington area are sufficient to make it prudent to do so, but after tomorrow, the National Cathedral will have become a mosque.
And not just any old mosque, but one with full connectivity to the Muslim Brotherhood. Here's what the Center for Security Policy said about the whole sordid affair in a press release from earlier today:
Americans of Conscience Urge Cancellation of Jihadist Day at the National Cathedral
(Washington, D.C.): On the eve of the 100th anniversary of the start of one of history's most horrific acts of genocide, a group of prominent figures in the religious, national security and human rights communities have written a letter to the leadership of Washington's National Cathedral. They urged the Cathedral not to allow a group of Muslim Brotherhood-affiliated organizations to utilize its house of worship on November 14th, 2014 for a prayer service that will inevitably — given the nature of the sponsors, their traditional service and the occasion — be a highly symbolic demonstration of Islamic supremacism.
The group's letter notes:
November 14th, 2014, will be the 100th anniversary of the last sitting Caliph of the Ottoman Empire's call for jihad against non-believers. The call for violent jihad against non-believers directly resulted in a genocide against the Armenian, Assyrian and Greek residents of Turkey. And while for most westerners the November 14th Jihad declaration is little more than a footnote in the annals of World War I, for Islamic supremacists like those associated with Muslim Brotherhood, it is a date pregnant with meaning. To permit such a public display, and permit such groups to occupy the National Cathedral of the United States on this date represents an affront to the memories of those who were killed as a result of this genocide, and an affront to those Christians across the Middle East who are currently under threat by those who seek to emulate it.
Among the signatories of the letter, which was organized by the Center for Security Policy were:
Lieutenant General William G. Boykin, Former Deputy Under Secretary of Defense
Dr. Ron Crew CH (COL) USAR, (Ret.), Executive Director, Chaplain Alliance for Religious Liberty
Pastor Jim Garlow, Senior Pastor, Skyline Church
Reverend Dan Cummins, Founder, Come Pray with Me
Pastor Paul Blair, Fairview Baptist Church
The group offered to meet with the leadership of the National Cathedral and to provide additional evidence regarding how the groups involved in the November 14th event have ties to the Muslim Brotherhood. The signatories called to mind that, as proven in federal court, the stated goal of the Brotherhood in America is to "destroy Western civilization from within."
The letter also notes how the Muslim Brotherhood has "…repeatedly targeted Middle Eastern Christians," including "bombing places of worship" as well as attacking "fellow Muslims who do not meet the Brotherhood's strict Shariah standards." Such atrocities and other acts of violent jihad are not things of the past; they are happening currently.
Center for Security Policy President Frank Gaffney observed:
The National Cathedral was recently rocked by an unusual earthquake, causing millions of dollars in damage to its exquisite structure. The act of opening its doors to top members and front groups of the Muslim Brotherhood — an organization that epitomizes and practices the worst of Islam's intolerant Shariah code — on a day that will always be associated with genocidal jihadism should rock the conscience of every member of the Cathedral's community. If this outrageous event is not cancelled, the damage that will assuredly be caused to the reputation of the institution's leadership and, by association, the Cathedral itself will likely be far more severe and difficult to repair than any caused by the tremor.
The full text of the letter is available here. [pdf]
Below is a brief Fox News report about tomorrow's event:
National Cathedral to host first Muslim prayer
WASHINGTON — Washington National Cathedral is hosting a Muslim prayer service for the first time on Friday.
Planners say they hope Friday's service at the historic cathedral will foster more understanding and acceptance between Christians and Muslims around the world.
The prominent Episcopal cathedral often hosts national events, such as presidential funerals, and has hosted Muslims at various interfaith services in the past. But planners say this is the first time the cathedral has invited Muslims to lead their own prayers there, which they call a "powerful symbolic gesture."
Planners say the prayer service developed after the cathedral's liturgical director met South African Ambassador Ebrahim Rasool while planning the national memorial service for Nelson Mandela.
In a statement, Rasool says, "This is a dramatic moment in the world and in Muslim-Christian relations."
And this is the high-minded, suave, ever-so-nice announcement from the Episcopal News Service:
Muslim Friday prayers to be offered at Washington National Cathedral
Washington National Cathedral and five Muslim groups have announced that the first celebration of Muslim Friday prayers (Jumaa) at the cathedral will be observed on Friday, Nov. 14.
"Leaders believe offering Muslim prayers at the Christian cathedral shows more than hospitality," according to a cathedral media advisory. "It demonstrates an appreciation of one another's prayer traditions and is a powerful symbolic gesture toward a deeper relationship between the two Abrahamic traditions."
The prayers will be held between 11:30 a.m. and 1:30 p.m. and will be attended by the Rev. Canon Gina Campbell, director of liturgy for Washington National Cathedral, South African Ambassador Ebrahim Rasool, Masjid Muhammad of The Nation's Mosque,
and representatives from the All Dulles Area Muslim Society, Council on American-Islamic Relations, Islamic Society of North America, Muslim Public Affairs Council.
The opportunity grew out of a "trusted relationship" between Campbell and Rasool, who met while planning the national memorial service for Nelson Mandela, the advisory said.
"Deep relationships come out of prayer," said Campbell. "Different connections come out of being in prayer — beyond the political or academic."
Rasool thanked Campbell for the cathedral's generous offer to use Friday prayers as a beginning to a deeper conversation and partnership. "This is a dramatic moment in the world and in Muslim-Christian relations," said Rasool. "This needs to be a world in which all are free to believe and practice and in which we avoid bigotry, Islamaphobia, racism, anti-Semitism, and anti-Christianity and to embrace our humanity and to embrace faith."
The cathedral has welcomed Muslims in the past, often at interfaith services and events, as well as at the Interfaith Conference of Greater Washington's annual concert and specific programs such as the 2008 Ramadan Iftar at the Cathedral College. But this is the first time the cathedral has invited Muslims to come and lead their own prayers in a space known as a house of prayer for all people.
Planners hope that the people around the world will take note of this service and the welcome extended by the cathedral so that Muslims everywhere will adopt a reciprocal welcome of Christians by Muslims.
The prayers will be offered in the north transept, an area of the cathedral with arches and limited iconography that provide an ideal space — almost mosque-like — with the appropriate orientation for Muslim prayers.
The prayers will also be webcast live from the cathedral's website.
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34 thoughts on "The Washington National Masjid"
William Palmer on November 13, 2014 at 11:53 pm said:
We are going to have to demand that our leaders pass some academic exams re Sharia and Islam…else they're going to kill us all. Robert Spencer, [Major] Coughlin and Dr. Andrew Bostom could design a nice two week course. Shrewd is what we've gotta be…quick! This is getting like the frog and the scorpion crossing the river joke. "Why would I kill you if you were so nice as to let me ride your back across the river?" Come on guys, ascend the learning curve!
steven karmi on November 14, 2014 at 12:46 am said:
Outrageous!!! I'd make the trek down to Washington DC to protest against this ghastly betrayal…but, I wouldn't make it back home prior to the onset of Shabbat. God bless us all–and a saber shake at allah.
simpleton on November 14, 2014 at 7:16 am said:
The betrayal one finds is that unwittingly, it was the scorpion from the church riding on your back .
It brings a very heavy grief with that, as you would think in following the bible, though there may be differences, you know where the focus is supposed to be. Your commitment and support to a church has to be questioned, as you thought at least in general the church had your back.
We had done the testing, time, study of islam and so learnt and then knew the nature of what a scorpion was, and so had grown very wary of it.
I have questioned an Anglican vicar, in our small co-operating parish, for the past 5 years. I did not like how social justice, multi-cultural, accepting gangs, diversity, "the shack" and other modern readings, seem so pervasive in his sermons. From a congregation of 40 plus supporters we are down to less than half a dozen, and a year ago he left. I stayed, watching, listening and wising up, as wrangles and unhappy people moved on. I learnt that techniques of what he was doing in manipulation and control through "Delphi techniques" at meetings and unreasonable time/energy consuming delays and pressures.
Unfortunately I also see this higher up in the diocese and recognize the same problem. I will not be making it such an issue with the higher elites, as at this stage though supporting the local church, sort of reviewing other churches too.
Sometimes it may be the scorpion could be there, either in the fire pan or the fire.
Previously I was able to be an occasional prayer intercessor, so able to raise many points to the congregants such as Asia Bidi in Pakistan, and name many other specific points such as woman and fmg. I did know that it had to be couched in such a way, done in adult level and polite specific prayer, and later, often over a cup of tea into general politics of islam and country problems.
Only once in 2007 was I reprimanded as it was said that it should have been in the "notices" for a meeting that was being held "Mosques & Miracles, revealing Islam and God's Grace" by Stuart Robinson, http://tinyurl.com/lqon2fb (one very good review of the book from Amazon[yes I am still dubious, and prefer Father Zacharia's approach too]) and doing a tour through the country. Some churches were "heavied" by pc, mc, sj congregations and islam associations. that stopped churches being used for this knowledge revealing meeting. The Christchurch Baptist church capitulated.
http://tinyurl.com/ocsp49k
It is with sadness to feel that betrayal, though joy in that letter, so that people do have a choice, a strong choice and the issues laid bare for all to see, and to wise up.
William on November 14, 2014 at 12:48 am said:
A sane person cannot avoid being pessimistic in these out-of-joint times. The West seems to be on a path to cultural suicide. It will be slow, but the end seems predictable. The process of Islamization will continue even after we who are alive today are dust. The West will in a few generations hence resemble Lebanon, and some parts of the Middle East, where Christianity remains, under assault by ever growing Islamic populations. Or it may be worse. I cannot see any other outcome. All those in authority are completely out of touch with reality and refuse to be impelled by rational thought. The few that can see reality do not have the power to change things. And most people are in oblivion. During the Protestant Reformation, those who refused to conform to the majority doctrine were able to separate themselves from the larger population. A strong bond allowed them the opportunity to leave their fellow countrymen, living apart within country or leaving for foreign lands. Do dissenters today have that cohesion and vision to withdraw successfully? It appears to be the only possible recourse for retaining one's tradition before the current one is eventually swallowed up by a ghastly alien one. I am afraid the end will be balkanization, less wealth, and lots of hostility. The battle now is for posterity's sake. The task is so immense that a successful outcome, if it is possible, will require time that is beyond more than the span of one generation. A prosperous and safe posterity might only be possible by means of a defensible refuge.
cmblake6 on November 15, 2014 at 4:35 pm said:
The West seems to be on a path to cultural suicide. It will be slow, but the end seems predictable.
Slow? This demoncrap government seems to be forcing us headlong into it at near warp speed!
cl on November 14, 2014 at 1:00 am said:
This is so disturbing …….it is like mass mind control of a nation using our best instincts against us, courtesy of the Muslim Brotherhood. It was a slow deliberate demeaning of the nations principles, faith and character…by using our media and ..creating drama's to instill guilt and shame and the rements of our faith to achieve their complete agenda. Islam is very cunning.
Julius O' Malley on November 14, 2014 at 1:02 am said:
Well Gina Campbell, that's very nice that hope of yours. We've all got to hope. Just out of interest, did you make any attempt at arranging some reciprocal event with the lovely Ebrahim Rasool whom you have such an affectionate and respectful relationship? I'm not thinking of an Episcopal service being held in, say, the National Mosque in Mecca because that would be too ambitious as it would involve Saudi Arabia amending its laws to remove the prohibition on non-Muslims entering into that city. Aiming a bit lower, I'd suggest the Al-Aqsa Mosque on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem as Jerusalem is both somewhat historically significant in the Christian faith and there are lots of Christians living nearby as well as many more who travel there.
What's that you say Gina? You didn't think about reciprocity when you made the arrangements with Ebrahim to use the northern transept for Islamic services? I suggest you re-schedule the event to a few months hence to get the Jerusalem mosque deal in place. No? I see, I see, Ebrahim is absolutely insistent it take place on November 14.
Did Ebrahim happen to mention that that date is highly significant to Islam as its the 100th anniversary of the Caliph declaring Jihad on Armenians, Assyrians and Greeks, ie the Christians, in his Caliphate? I guess not. Gina, are you taking any prescription medication? Or were you born this obtuse?
Takuan Seiyo on November 14, 2014 at 1:06 am said:
Maybe demand that they import some Anglican bishops from Nigeria; they do not suffer from whitey's autoimmune diseases…
Brandy on November 15, 2014 at 12:58 pm said:
You know. You are absolutely right. It may very well be the source of revival. Meantime the question of our survival will never be addressed by the current lot of burnt out gay blades.
HarrietHT on November 14, 2014 at 3:43 am said:
At the rate things are going it won't be long before we are treated to a redux of 1453, with Constantinople under siege by the Ottoman Empire: America and the West play Constantinople's role, and the Ottomans are played by the current enemies of Christ, of whatever stripe (including those "Christians" who make nice with the MB — I can assure you that evangelism is not on the former's menu).
1930's Germany had its own apostate church (the German Christian movement), bowing to Herr Hitler. There were however notable exceptions: those church bodies which signed the Barmen Declaration, whose allegiance was to Christ.
America is not different today, in that many church bodies serve man and not God.
But thankfully, God's truth is still preached in many a pulpit throughout America.
And no, I didn't know you and Dymphna were Episcopalians. This Lutheran keeps you in her prayers. (BTW, Lutherans have their own apostate synods.)
Nemesis on November 14, 2014 at 5:03 am said:
Betrayal by those entrusted to safeguard the house of the Lord is far worse than being betrayed by one's own countrymen to one's recognized enemy. At the very least and when betrayed to the recognized enemy, there is still the opportunity for fight back, but what does one do when one's Church is easily given over to those who will eventually defile it? My commiserations to you both, we do indeed live in dark, but foretold times.
DP111 on November 14, 2014 at 7:00 am said:
I too go to the parish Anglican chiurch. The people are nice, and genuinely believe that Islam is not bad but for a tiny minority etc. Its depressing.
What made a difference was when a representative of Open Doors came to talk of the horrendous persecution of Christians worldwide, for the most part in Islamic countries.
Please try it. Truth sets us free in all spheres of life.
And pray. I now realize that we are in a for a torrid time, and frankly, deservedly so. Nothing can save us now but God's mercy.
Michael Copeland on November 14, 2014 at 7:31 am said:
"Okay, they have three choices, either they became a Muslim, or they have to pay the jizya, or to be killed."
See "Islam: the Learning Curve"
http://libertygb.org.uk/v1/index.php/home/root/news-libertygb/4402-islam-the-learning-curve
acuara on November 14, 2014 at 10:31 am said:
Jack Hibbs of Calvary Chapel Chino Hills referred to today's event in the Wednesday evening service as a desecration of what had been holy ground, (sanctified for the worship of God through Jesus Christ). Given the apostasy that passes for Liberal Theology, I would say that the National Cathedral had been desecrated long before this. It is only now, just as when the Philistines took the Ark of the Covenant and the Babylonians sacked Jerusalem and the Temple, that the Glory has departed. It is best to call the building Ichabod, for that is its true name now.
BTW, there isn't a building on earth fit for the presence of God to abide in. He has been gracious to make a way through Christ Jesus that He can dwell within us, a true temple not made with human hands. It is when we come together in His name that He is present among us. We don't need four walls and a roof to worship Him, but during inclement weather the shelter form the elements is helpful.
Nick on November 14, 2014 at 11:03 am said:
http://callofthepatriot.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/chrislam-nein-danke.html
Funnily enough I came across that video the other day, of this sort of thing happening in Germany.
And this just blew my mind altogether when it happened …
http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland/top-stories/episcopal-church-opens-doors-to-aberdeen-muslims-1-2843168
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/mar/18/aberdeen-muslims-christians-share-church
Video of that incident – and check out the location of the mosque in the first place @ 1 min 16 secs ->
Question: That kirk has been there for donkeys years – these mohammedans arrive in the city & decide to put up a mosque … where, exactly?
Next they butter up the guy running the kirk & get inside the building ….
Anyone else see a pattern developing here?
Nick on November 14, 2014 at 6:39 pm said:
Whoops, forgot to include the link to that video … here it is then:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZhfd4FbPBw
BEWARE THOUGH!
You may very well have an MI or stroke out while watching this video.
JBP on November 14, 2014 at 11:57 am said:
I converted from RC to E about 30 years ago; my experience with the E church has been a downhill slide ever since. This, however, pretty much takes the cake.
At least when the Byzantine emporers were commiserating with muslims in the 15th century the figurative sword to the emporers throat was held by the muslim; now the sword against our throats is being weilded by our 'fellow Christians' (also known as 'liberal extremists'.
Hey! Isn't that the label we should start hitting all the loudmouth liberals who are destroying our civilization with? Especially when they align with muslims, who are all religious idealogue extrememists (or else…. by their own koran)
"Liberal extremist" repeat, repeat, repeat
Hoss on November 14, 2014 at 2:57 pm said:
At the appropriate time, our new Muslim overlords will put a few artillery
pieces in front of the National Cathedral and blow it away, as they did
with the Buddhist cave carvings in Afghanistan. It must go as it is unIslamic.
On the other hand, they might decide to make it a Mosque, in the grand
tradition of the Islamic practice of building a Mosque on conquered ground,
similar to what almost happened at Ground Zero.
Jeanne on November 14, 2014 at 5:39 pm said:
I will never again step foot in the National Cathedral…….because I don't visit mosques.
Julius O' Malley on November 14, 2014 at 6:12 pm said:
Ebrahim walks into room with huge smile on his face: "She did it, she's agreed to it!"
Broad grins break out on the faces of three of the four men seated at the table. The fourth man, Ahmed, rubs his bearded chin with a wary concern and speaks tersely in heavily Arabic-accented English:
"What do we have to do in return?"
Ebrahim's smile broadens "Nothing. Absolutely nothing!"
Ahmed is wary at this claim. His years in a Lebanese prison as a Hezbollah activist had made his already distrustful nature near paranoid. He had been betrayed to the authorities by a fellow mujihadeen who had become jealous of his successful graft operation.
"You didn't agree to make any speech about how Islam respects the Christian faith?"
One of the other three seated men, Mohammed, in his early 40's, rolls his eyes at Ahmed and speaks with an almost perfect Mid-Atlantic American accent:
"Ahmed" scolding him mildly, "you're always such a pessimist! You don't understand these Americans"
The other two seated at the table, the elderly Hussein and the young Jihad, smirked benevolently at the ignorance of the newly-arrived Ahmed.
"I just refuse to believe that this kaffir woman would agree to such a thing without …" he struggled to finish his statement.
"Believe it, believe it!" Mohammed, Hussein and Jihad chorused mirthfully in unison.
"What does it tell you, Ahmed, that the national place of worship of America's main Christian sect lets a woman conduct business of this nature?" Hussein asked, striking a more serious tone.
Ahmed paused to reflect upon this fact: "Don't they know that once we hold Islamic prayer service in a place of infidel worship that place thereafter forever becomes a … consecrated … holy place of Islam?"
The others had already started shaking their heads before Ahmed had finished his question.
"No, they don't!" Mohammed said with a smile.
"And they're so historically ignorant, they didn't even flinch when I proposed November 14!" Ebrahim added.
"They can't be that stupid" Ahmed mused aloud.
"Yes .. they are!" Hussein intoned calmly. "Ahmed, when I arrived here thirty years ago on a 3 month tourist visa, my first wife was pregnant with our third child. We overstayed our visas, she gave birth to Ashraf and then we applied for permanent residence on the grounds that our son was an American citizen! And they gave it to us!"
"It wasn't quite that straightforward Hussein …" Mohammed spoke, "You had to go to some court to remove some INS objection to the fact you hadn't disclosed your imprisonment in Egypt for being an activist in the Brotherhood on your visa application!"
"Yes, and not only did the kaffirs provide me with a free lawyer, some other kaffir organization here provided me with a different lawyer for free because they didn't think my original one was good enough!" he responded to Mohammed.
Ahmed listened in awe. The other smiled at 'The Education of Ahmed'. Hussein continued, directing his comments to Ahmed:
"So after we got our Green Cards, Khalifa and I divorced under the kaffir's laws and she and the six children got a new house to live in at a ridiculously low rent. Subsidized by the government! I kept my rented apartment for my own affairs …" The other three men grinned at this as Hussein continued:
"They never bothered to find out that I moved into that house within a few days of Khalifa moving in and I spent six out of seven nights there! They actually believed we had divorced. So two years later I brought Yasmin over from Port Said on a spousal visa – I spun them some story about having been originally been betrothed to Yasmin and was trying to rectify the shame I had brought upon my family and her family by marrying Khalifa for love – and then I married her here! Yasmin's father paid me a huge dowry to get his daughter into the States"
Mohammed then spoke: "Ahmed, I've had three stores here. I burned the first two down myself and both times the insurance company paid up without question!"
Ahmed looked at him in utter astonishment: "Twice!?"
"Twice" he confirmed smugly with obvious abundant pride and self-satisfaction at his cleverness.
"Didn't you get the money to start your store by pretending to fall down on a building site and got a compensation payout for a bad back?" Hussein asked.
"No that was my brother Abdullah who I got in here on family re-union grounds."
"Your half-brother" Ebrahim corrected him.
"My half-brother" Mohammed conceded, "Not that I told them that. Or that we grew up in different cities and hardly knew each other. No, I founded my first store with the money I got for faking the robbery of my house and claiming on the burglary insurance"
"Mine was an automobile insurance policy" Ebrahim stated proudly, "I staged the theft with my cousin and he torched it. When the insurance company started asking too many questions I called them 'racists' and 'Islamophobes' and threatened to go to the media. I had my cheque and a written apology from the boss of the company within a week! I had to give my cousin half."
Ahmed turned his uncomprehending face to each of the men in the room and each nodded back at him. Young Jihad, keen to establish himself as player in this contest, though he was born in America and the only claim was that he had three driver's licences under three different names, two of which were false, but all of them had multiple licences, and a string of sexual assault charges against him whilst at college, that were dropped under the pressure of a campus advocacy group called 'Diversity'. And all the women victims were too frightened to testify against him some friends of his had visited them. He later raped the coordinator of 'Diversity', but the fellow was too ashamed to go to the police about it. He didn't discuss the latter with this circle:
"My great-aunt in Chicago was a member of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine in the 60's, she got jailed by the Zionists for setting off a bomb in a supermarket …"
"Yeah, but she only killed two Zionists!" Mohammed interjected lest Ahmed get the idea that the boastful Jihad's great aunt had struck a serious blow against the Zionist entity.
"Anyway, the Zionists released her from prison after only ten years and she went straight to Jordan. After a couple of years she applied to come to the States claiming she was Jordanian! They let her in here and she didn't even have to use a false name!"
"Unbelievable" muttered Ahmed.
"Then in 1995 she got her Green Card no trouble, then about ten years later she got her US citizenship. They did no background checks on her at all both times. And she's been active in the Palestinian cause ever since she's arrived here! She created a thing called the 'Arab American Action Network' to spread taquiya among the kaffirs!"
"She's in a bit of trouble now though isn't she? For what she wrote on her Green Card and citizenship applications?" Mohammed interjected. He and Jihad, unknown to the rest of the group had been lovers for several years, but Jihad had ended things recently, having acquired a boy much younger than himself and finding continuing to be his Uncle Mohammed's catamite 'unmanly'. It had also become a little uncomfortable when one of Mohammed's four sons had married Jihad's older sister (who had once caught he and Mohammed in the act. He knew she wouldn't ever use it against him because she knew that Jihad would kill her if she did, but still best to have ended things with his sister's new father-in-law and his father's brother now that he was getting married himself.)
"CAIR is waging a huge PR campaign about that to get the charges dropped. And most of her supporters are kaffirs!"
"Most of them?" Ahmed asked dubious at the assertion.
"More than 80%" Hussein confirmed, "All these college students are out on the streets protesting on her behalf as a warrior for Palestine who's being unjustly persecuted for her political views!"
"And some of them are Jews!" Ebrahim added.
"Jews!" Ahmed exclaimed disbelievingly. The men around the table all nodded at him.
"Are they insane or stupid or both?" he asked in Arabic.
"Both!" the four others chimed in unison.
Hep0nen on November 14, 2014 at 7:36 pm said:
Words of prophecy from the highest author:
15 ¶Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
More than fitting, for the occasion. The same can be interpreted for a church that welcomes idolaters for the sake of tolerance.
Radegunda on November 14, 2014 at 9:18 pm said:
Once again, the people who blather about mutual understanding have done nothing to gain a real understanding of what they're dealing with.
I suspect they think they don't actually need to understand Islam very deeply because they have so much confidence in their own moral superiority, which they disguise as humility. In their spiritual arrogance, they imagine that the power of their own outreach and good example will soften the hardest hearts. Never mind that it hasn't worked yet in 1,400 years.
bobm on November 14, 2014 at 9:26 pm said:
reciprocity is hardly the issue ; where Light and darkness are concerned.
Binks, Webelf on November 15, 2014 at 10:39 am said:
http://steynian.wordpress.com/2014/11/14/behind-the-headline/
Behind The Headline
Bill Gore on November 15, 2014 at 10:49 am said:
It really is time for you and your family to leave the episcopal 'church'. Really. Many former episcopalians have found a home in the growing ACNA (Anglican Church of North America). ECUSA is one organization that is utterly beyond hope of change from within. Do you really have the time and the energy for these battles? My koan for the ECUSA 'progressives' is: "They win and they lose."
Mark H on November 15, 2014 at 12:25 pm said:
Not wishing to downplay the seriousness of this item, Baron, but where is that amazing corbel/hunkypunk* of Darth Vader?
*On old buildings, mostly churches: corbels are stone figures, usually inside, where the arches supporting the roof meet the supporting column; they are sometimes very old jokes, caricaturing local dignitaries or the masons who built the structure. Hunkypunks are carvings on the outside of churches, only in Somerset, SW England, like gargoyles but without any practical function; they're often crouching (down on their hunkers) and always grotesque, hence the name.
Excuse architecture lesson; for a heathen, I spend a lot of time in old churches!
Now that's interesting. How did grotesque images get built in a church wall? It would seem a bad placement for a demon figure.. Was there a purpose for them? I'll have to study this.
Baron Bodissey on November 15, 2014 at 1:48 pm said:
Darth Vader is a grotesque high up on the northwest tower of what was once the National Cathedral, and is now the National Masjid.
Lord Vader was put there after the Cathedral held a sculpture design contest for school students. One of the winners drew a Darth Vader grotesque, which was then carved in stone for the cathedral.
Vader and the other gargoyles are graven images. We'll see how long they last on the masjid after the Waqf takes title to it.
See the Darth Vader page on the National Masjid's website.
Mark H on November 16, 2014 at 3:36 pm said:
Thanks Baron. Assuming our culture survives, and the National Cathedral isn't demolished by further earthquakes (how dare they show up in the East?), Darth will be an interesting subject for future students of architecture and popular culture!
More Change on November 15, 2014 at 3:44 pm said:
Or they may inadvertently or otherwise set off a nuclear device – 9/11 is a bit old for them by now – I imagine. In the 1980's apparently while Regan was throwing the patients out of the mental hospitals and into the streets through the back door he was flooding the country with real lunatics through the front door. On and on it goes.
Dymphna on November 15, 2014 at 6:04 pm said:
Please get your hard-hearted presidents right.
John Kennedy, with the best of intentions, began closing mental institutions in favor of community care. Problem was, it became another of those magic pony unfunded mandates – the communities were forced to take back their mentally unstable and dangerous but the govt didn't give those places nearly enough money to operate their "community service boards". I worked with that population for a number of years, Mr/Ms More Change, and I saw the derelicts blooming in the streets due to this short-sighted well-meaning decision. When that began, Reagan was still in Hollywood, was still a reflex Democrat, and hadn't yet developed his philosophy of government. Even when he did the change-over, he couldn' help himself: he grew govt by adding another cabinet position…
But before that, when Kennedy was yanked from the scene it gave LBJ, a BIG govt true believer, the chance to put it all on steroids, the most infamous being the "War on Poverty". Daniel Moynihan, a small-govt Dem, warned him he'd destroy the black family if he followed thru with these half-baked plans. But the Dems wanted to insure a permanent underclass they could turn to for votes. IOW, it was never about poverty at all. Anymore than ObamaCare was designed to fix anything beyond a larger permanent vote for Dems…that turgid mess got those who voted for it thrown out…though we still have the henchmen – Reid and Pelosi – braying about it. At least now Reed has to bray from the back bench.
Get your government demons straight, please. Reagan didn't keep his initial promise to get rid of waste and fraud, though in his first term he sure did RIF a lot of govt workers. Now government is the fastest growing sector in this country. It will mean impoverishment for many of those who aren't part of the nomenklatura…
More Change on November 16, 2014 at 5:01 am said:
Thank you so much. I didn't know any of that. I remember walking from the downtown Los Angeles office to the carpark required stepping over babbling bodies. I have lots of reading to do. My apologies Mr. Regsn R.I.P.