The Barry Jennings "Bodies" Claim -- False, Now that the BBC Interviews Him . . .
Victronix Sat, 07/05/2008 - 8:36pm
Barry Jennings
Barry Jennings seems to have just exposed himself on the BBC, so this looks like it was a set-up to make us look "confused" or misrepresenting our sources. Perhaps Jennings had some other reason that just ended up making us look bad. It sounds like it was intentional since it's unlikely someone would be unclear about such a powerful detail. Some on here were pointing out what a huge issue it would be if there were bodies -- it looks like that helped everyone to accept Jennings, despite his drama and the confusing aspects of his claims.
But regardless, after he does something like this, no one should promote any of his claims.
Q&A: The collapse of Tower 7
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/conspiracy_files/7434230.stm
"The writer and director of Loose Change, Dylan Avery, told The Conspiracy Files: "The amount of detail that Barry gave us in this interview was unreal. He says he was stepping over dead bodies in the lobby."
Barry Jennings himself disagrees with their interpretation of his words. Barry Jennings told the BBC: "I didn't like the way you know I was portrayed. They portrayed me as seeing dead bodies. I never saw dead bodies"
Dylan Avery is adamant that he didn't take anything out of context. He played The Conspiracy Files a recording of Barry Jennings words: "The fire fighter who took us down kept saying do not look down. And I kept saying why.
"He said do not look down. And we're stepping over people and you know you could feel when you're stepping over people."
However, Barry Jennings told the BBC: "I said it felt like I was stepping over them but I never saw any.
"And you know that's the way they portrayed me and I didn't appreciate that so I told them to pull my interview."
Victronix's blog
Barry Jennings Indeed Said He Was Stepping Over Bodies
As the BBC article quotes Barry Jennings' own recorded words made to Dylan Avery:
He said do not look down. And we're stepping over people and you know you could feel when you're stepping over people.
So Barry Jennings most certainly did indeed tell Dylan Avery that he was stepping over bodies: again, "And we're stepping over people ..."
"Terrorism is the health of the State."--James Redford, author of "Jesus Is an Anarchist," June 1, 2006 http://praxeology.net/anarchist-jesus.pdf
Theophysics http://geocities.com/theophysics/
James Redford on Sun, 07/06/2008 - 9:10am.
How can Mike Rudin explain
How can Mike Rudin explain this - Dylan's video?
Summer of Truth
betsy on Sun, 07/06/2008 - 9:53am.
The video.
Reprehensor on Sun, 07/06/2008 - 9:13am.
Not going to 'pull' the Prison Planet story...
or video. But I did edit our post, with a link to Jennings' denial;
http://www.911blogger.com/node/16285
This is exactly what Jones and co. were expecting to happen.
Other examples of witnesses contradicting themselves;
Amanda Keller recants;
http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060910/NEWS/60...
Carthel Weeden contradicts his sworn MLK testimony;
http://911blogger.com/node/16353
And way back: Marina Oswald proclaimed Lee Harvey's innocence... at first. Then after spending some quality time with the FBI and Secret Service, she testified to his obvious guilt.
This is business as usual, but definitely from here on in, approach Jennings with caution.
Reprehensor on Sun, 07/06/2008 - 10:23am.
constitutional911 on Sun, 07/06/2008 - 10:26am.
I suspect Jennings was gotten to....
Jennings was probably talked to by authorities and instructed on how he should be handling himself. There's no substantiation but it makes the most sense. Jennings may have been offered a carrot as well as threatened with the stick?
As Rephrensor reiterates the Jones and Co. belief, BBC intended it as a hit piece. They had to do something. Jennings' statement about feeling as if stepping over bodies and not actually seeing them, suggests he's been instructed to split hairs. It's rather sickening.
I encourage anyone with Jenning's recorded statements to continue to use them. It needs to be clear what he was recorded as saying!
Jennings....
...don't believe him!
alllans2k7 on Sun, 07/06/2008 - 12:14pm.
Jennings was the one......
...who brought up the the fact that he was told to not look down and that it felt like he was walking over bodies. It wasn't a response to a question like, "Did you see any bodies?" Arabesque is right, there's something really shady going on here. I sort of agree with Victronix that we shouldn't "promote" Jennings claims, but we can use his video testimony in our ongoing research to put the pieces of the puzzle together. It's still very valuable.
I, too, think someone got to Jennings and this is all back tracking to cover and discredit his original remarks -- to "throw the baby out with the bath water" as the old saying goes. We still need to verify, substantiate and corroborate his claims. Remember folks, Building #7 IS the smoking gun. If it wasn't, the BBC wouldn't have devoted so much $$$ to debunk it. We should take this as verification that we've hit a nerve. From here on, we need to sharpen our pencils and become savvy investigators. We also need to crank up the support for ae911truth. The BBC has raised the bar to a level where now only scientists and engineers will be able to adequately sort thru the obstacles thrown at us. But remember, if this is disinformation or a deliberate smear campaign, then there is incriminating truth mixed in that they are willing to introduce in order to eliminate later. We can't fall for that.
So let's just chill out and really help Gage,Jones, Ryan et. al. get these bad guys. And for the record, I never thought the dead bodies claim was ever that significant. The evacuation of the OEM bunker is far more incriminating, as is a collapsing landing before towers 1 and 2 collapsed. You can be sure Mr. Hess won't make any comments to verify or refute Jennings story. Why is that? And did the BBC interview Mr. Hess to clarify Jennings story? NOT!
OK all you WeAreChange confrontationalists, it's time to get cracking. Go get Hess on record, please.
911Peacenik on Sun, 07/06/2008 - 12:40pm.
Yes! "...We also need to crank up the support for ae911truth."
911Peacenik : "...We also need to crank up the support for ae911truth.... ...So let's just chill out and really HELP Gage,Jones, Ryan et. al. get these bad guys...."
TomT on Sun, 07/06/2008 - 4:42pm.
I agree totally, but the BBC
I agree totally, but the BBC spent £££ not $$$ LOL! After watching it this one was better than last time, the pro-establishment bias was still thick but I got the impression that they gave a lot of credence and respect to Richard Gage and Dr Jones, so even though it ended on a pro-OCT note, it was almost like they had to use bias in places as an excuse to let some truth out - hard to believe but that was the impression I came away with, quite surprising.
Dem Bruce Lee Styles on Sun, 07/06/2008 - 6:03pm.
Jennings testimony can never be used now
Even if Jennings were to now say that the BBC coerced him, he is now tainted as a witness and could likely never be used in a court or investigation. He has flipflopped enough that his testimony could be easily discredited to an audience.
If he had some sort of proof of all the possibilities that people are describing on here that he was somehow forced or threatened, etc., then I'd reconsider. But I see nothing like that coming from him, only from people commenting on here. And even if it did come from him, he would need proof, at this point, to be believed, since no one will believe his personal testimony anymore.
Why would not a single other person have mentioned "bodies" in WTC7?
The fact is, while bodies would help to generate interest, the collapse itself is really all we should need.
Victronix on Sun, 07/06/2008 - 12:55pm.
Thanks Allan2k
That's the clearest explanation I've got. Yes he's just splitting hairs. He's telling the truth when he says that he didn't "see any dead bodies" because he followed the firefighter's orders and did not look down.
patrick on Fri, 07/11/2008 - 9:45pm.
The Amanda Keller Testimony Can Still Be Safely Used
Amanda Keller's testimony regarding her previous boyfriend Mohamed Atta can still be quite safely used because many other witnesses' statements to the press right after the 9/11 attacks makes clear that she was telling the truth to begin with.
Indeed, her false retraction makes her original veridical testimony even far more powerful and convincing, since many of the witnesses as to Mohamed Atta's activities in Florida have complained about the FBI harassing them to not talk about what they know (just as Amanda Keller herself originally testified).
For much more on that, including the news documentation regarding witnesses' statements, see:
"Amanda Keller Was Indeed Mohamed Atta's Girlfriend," James Redford, July 3, 2008 http://911blogger.com/node/16420#comment-191135
James Redford on Sun, 07/06/2008 - 2:13pm.
Jason Bermas talks about this
http://www.radiodujour.com/people/bermas_jason/
AJFan on Sun, 07/06/2008 - 11:07am.
Something is very shady here.
"Barry Jennings seems to have just exposed himself on the BBC, so this looks like it was a set-up to make us look "confused" or misrepresenting our sources."
This guy has been causing a surprising amount of controversy over his testimony. Unfortunately for him, his words are on tape, and they speak for themselves. Whether he was telling the truth, who knows?
The way this guy has been acting (retracting use of his testimony, saying he was taken out of context) makes me question his motives.
It would be nice if we could get some photos inside the building to confirm if there were "bodies", or that the lobby was "blown". Keep in mind, that we KNOW that the WTC lobbies were blown out, because this has been captured on film. It's pretty indisputable he was trapped in the building because this has been confirmed by other sources, like NIST. Furthermore, he gave a television interview on 9/11 talking about the explosion. It's very doubtful that he would be making up stories like this on 9/11.
Arabesque: 911 Truth
Arabesque on Sun, 07/06/2008 - 11:32am.
Smells like set-up, but we may never know
If you want the public to question the veracity and the legitimacy of the "outrageous" claims being made by the "conspiracy theorists," all you have to do is have someone directly contradicting them on the programme, and even suggesting there was intentional misuse of testimony, for an effect.
They know that millions will see their video, while only hundreds or thousands or even just hundreds of thousands will see ours, so his original testimony won't matter.
Victronix on Sun, 07/06/2008 - 11:34am.
Jennings interview
was poorly done (imo) by loose change. I'd like to see
a new one which gets his experience 100%, without
any question marks.
truthoverprofit on Sun, 07/06/2008 - 11:41am.
BBC tried to say that LC "lied" about his testimony
I think this explains the situation pretty well. Recommend listening if you want to know the deal about Barry Jennings and the BBC's attempt to discredit the 9/11 truth movement.
http://www.radiodujour.com/people/bermas_jason/mp3/20080623_alexjones_ja...
BBC tried to say that LC "lied" about his testimony in their upcoming hit piece, but Bermas responded by playing the tape to prove this false.
According to Jones, Jennings said he was threatened.
Where were these bodies supposed to have come from? I read that
WTC-7 was used as a triage/morgue area for dead & injured after one or both towers were struck. That does sound more plausible than leaving the dead & injured exposed on the sidewalks or streets.
Consider mass emailing truth messages. More info here: http://www.911blogger.com/node/13321
Colombo on Sun, 07/06/2008 - 12:24pm.
Barry Jennings is still a
Barry Jennings is still a fine witness and has an airtight timeline. So what if he was a little confused about whether he saw bodies or thought he saw bodies?
Jennings has received death threats, so this does not surprise me.
But what Jennings says here has nothing to do with his timeline.
Galileo on Sun, 07/06/2008 - 2:17pm.
its the timeline
yes its the timeline which is important
Headspin on Sun, 07/06/2008 - 3:47pm.
Submitted by Galileo on Thu, 06/26/2008 - 12:59pm
Jennings never says the entire WTC 7 was evacuated at 9:03, only that everyone was gone from the OEM at that time.
Submitted by Chris Sarns on Sat, 06/28/2008 - 12:28am.
Richard Sheirer director OEM
Testimony May 18, 2004
http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/library/congress/9-11_commission/...
When the second plane hit the South Tower, we felt an explosion in the North Tower
lobby, but at first we did not know what it was. I was immediately notified over the radio by the
EOC about what had happened.
Almost instantly after the South Tower had been hit, I contacted the EOC to confirm that
air support was on its way to New York. At that time, the EOC informed me that that there were
still planes unaccounted for that may have been heading for New York. I relayed this
information to the command post in the North Tower lobby. At the same time, OEM evacuated
the EOC. The rest of 7 World Trade Center had been evacuated earlier, but after the report of a
possible third plane, we had to get our people out of the building.
Barry Jenkins' statement is incorrect.
Mo betta we 'nitpick' Barry's statements than embrace them and wind up with an omelet on our face.
The ONLY thing in his statements that can be verified is:
When they reached the 8th floor there was an explosion and they were trapped on the 8 th floor.
Michael Hess: I was part of the emergency management crew on the 23rd floor and when all the power went out on the building, another gentleman and i walked down to the 8th floor where there was an explosion! and we were trapped on the 8th floor. Smoke, thick smoke wrapped(?) around us for about an hour and a half"
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6475257160515133665&q=wtc7+new+f...
[start at 6:20. WARNING: audio very loud, turn down volume]
Barry Jenkins "Me and Mr. Hess ..... We made it to the 8th floor. Big explosion!
Blew us back into the 8th floor."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxAuN5lKLio [@ 0:15]
Barry's interview with Jason also contains absurd statements like:
"The firefighter that took us down kept saying "Don't look down." and i kept saying why."
"You know you can feel when you're stepping on people."
Do you really believe that he never looked down?
He said the lobby was total ruins but he didn't see the bodies?
Officer: "You'll have to run."
Barry: "I can't run, my knees are swollen."
Officer: "Then you'll have to get on your knees and crawl then." [right]
Barry: ". . . and that's when i started crawling."
[if your knees are swollen and you have to move as fast as possible, do you walk, or crawl on your swollen knees?]
"When I got to that lobby, the lobby was totally destroyed.
It was so destroyed they had to take me out through a hole in the wall"
http://www.prisonplanet.com/audio/190607clips2.mp3
[Hole in the wall? This one on the east side? Looks like a door to me.]
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/4442/eastwalldoorjo6.png
Dr. Michael Guttenberg, NYC Office of Medical Affairs:
"We found our way out one of the back doors of No. 7 and came outside."
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/...
With all due respect to Dylan and Jason, who have done more for the Truth Movement than anyone by blowing it wide open with Loose Change, this is going to come back and bite them in the ass.
This interview only serves to discredit Barry and the evidence of an explosion in WTC 7.
And that's exactly what the BBC will use it for.
Chris Sarns on Mon, 07/07/2008 - 4:19am.
I've already debated this
I've already debated this stuff elsewhere, but here goes.
Sheirer is not a witness to the 23rd floor, Jennings and Hess are.
Sheirer may have confused the 1st and 2nd planes. Sheirer also does not say who he talked to, and neither do Hess or Jennings. Maybe Hess or Jennings called Sheirer? Jennings and Hess are the only witnesses on the 23rd floor at 9:03.
Sheirer is also an upper management level type person, the type that rarely admit mistakes unless forced to. He says "I contacted the EOC", which could mean that he contacted someone had been at the EOC and left, or someone on their way to the EOC, its a vague statement. Jennings and Hess are very specific in their timeline.
Hess may have said all the electricity went out in the building, but he would have no way of knowing that. He only knew it went out where he was, on the 23rd floor. He thought it all went out, or his statement was influenced by later events.
The rest of your post does not concern his timeline. Nor do I find anything unusual in what he says. We are talking about a person who survived a very hectic situation.
I take on the JREF nitpickers and twisters here:
Barry Jenning's "Tale"
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=85646
Galileo on Mon, 07/07/2008 - 11:46am.
>>Sheirer is also an upper
>>Sheirer is also an upper management level type person, the type that rarely admit mistakes unless forced to.
That's quite a generalization. Not every single person in an upper management position can be fit into a formula for their response to events. People get jobs for many different reasons and we don't know what his reasons were.
Victronix on Mon, 07/07/2008 - 1:57pm.
I agree its a
I agree its a generalization, which I believe is accurate. Regardless, Sheirer was not a witness to what happened on the 23rd floor of WTC 7 at 9:03.
Jennings timeline is airtight. Not even the JREFers could find anything to contradict it.
Galileo on Mon, 07/07/2008 - 3:00pm.
Another problem with
Another problem with Sheirer, he never mentions that the alarm system in WTC 7 was put on test status at 6:47 A.M. He's at upper management level, and should not withhold this information.
Confused?
Read the statement again.
Sheirer was in the command center in the north tower when the second plane hit the south tower at 9:03.
"Almost instantly after the South Tower had been hit, I contacted the EOC. . . . . . At the same time, OEM evacuated
possible third plane, we had to get our people out of the building."
It would take at least 17 minutes to evacuate a 47 story building.
BTW: There are windows all around the 8th floor. It was NOT dark.
Why didn't they just use the other stairway?
This whole thing stinks.
Chris Sarns on Mon, 07/07/2008 - 2:22pm.
Sheirer wasn't in WTC 7 on
Sheirer wasn't in WTC 7 on the 23rd floor at 9:03. He's not a witness. Jennings says he was on the 23rd floor at 9:03.
Is English your first language?
"When the second plane hit the South Tower [9:03], we felt an explosion in the North Tower
lobby,
"Almost instantly after the South Tower had been hit, I contacted the EOC."
"At that time, the EOC informed me that that there were
still planes unaccounted for that may have been heading for New York.."
"At the same time, OEM evacuated the EOC [9:03+]. The rest of 7 World Trade Center had been evacuated earlier,"
[17 minutes between impacts]
Therefore, Barry arrived after the second plane hit the south tower.
Barry said he was on the
Barry said he was on the 23rd floor when the 2nd plane hit. The floor is the size of a football field. The evacuation times given by various witnesses are all over the place. Other witness claim to have arrived there at about 9:30.
Sheirer is a bad witness, and I wouldn't trust him.
Galileo on Tue, 07/08/2008 - 3:13pm.
did LC guys or anyone ever claim Jennings said he'd "seen" bodies- what i've seen they only repeat what he said, which clearly implies he believed there were bodies.
He's definitely not reliable, what with his most recent statement; but he hasn't backed away from his statements about explosions, and his emphatic denial that it could've been the fuel
I find it incredible this guy could even do 1 pull-up, let alone pull himself up onto a floor he was hanging from; his reports of explosions and everything else are suspect because of that claim, imho
9/11 Family Steering Committee Review of the 9/11 Commission Report:
http://911truth.org/images/resources/Family%20Steering%20Cmte%20review%2...
Complete 9/11 Timeline
http://cooperativeresearch.org/project.jsp?project=911_project
loose nuke on Sun, 07/06/2008 - 2:17pm.
Ahhh I knew this observation would be usefull...Oneday.
I cannot recall the name of the 911 documentary... but it is the one that follows the fire fighters into the Towers.
The scene is with all the fire fighters standing in the Lobby..
You CLEARLY hear a Chief talk about setting up Triage at Building 7.--- Logically that would mean there would be bodies in the lobby of 7.
I will start to look ... But IF any of you want to look and find it first.. Thumbs Up.. as that segment is a fatal blow to his back peddling...
tryptamine on Sun, 07/06/2008 - 4:03pm.
Great little typo in this
In the section "Was Tower 7 deliberately destroyed by explosives?" about half way down, the 10th paragraph begins thusly:
"But most controlled experts disagree."
Controlled experts indeed!
nobodyparticular on Sun, 07/06/2008 - 5:09pm.
maybe not even a typo; maybe the copy guy's a truther, and the controlled editor's overworked
Jennings Retraction Like Pat Dawson Rationalization
See Pat Dawson explaining away his 9/11/2001 NBC comments on the History Channel hit-piece.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VRqSpBtceg
We must accept that news networks owned by corporations that often work in close cooperation with the government, may always attempt to refute our positions because 9/11=Checkmate for the criminal enterprise that masquerades as our legitmate government.
9/11 was central to the U.S.'s continued domination of the world's resources.
Aidan Monaghan on Sun, 07/06/2008 - 5:33pm.
hess and Jennings: guess what
Back on sept 13, there was an article that refers to Jennnigs and Hess.BUT it makes no mention of WTC7:
'Higher up, the second explosion took a more immediate toll. Shirley Bates, who worked on the 88th floor of One World Trade Centre. "Everything came like a tornado," she said. "People started running." A woman near her caught some of the direct blast of the explosion. Her arms and hair caught fire.
The explosion in the second building came just as Jennifer Brickhouse, 34, from Union, New Jersey, escaped from the first tower. "The minute I got out of the building, the second building blew up," she said. She had been going up an escalator when she heard an enormous boom.
"All this stuff started falling and all this smoke was coming through," she said. "People were screaming, falling, and jumping out of the windows from high in the sky." Up in the command centre on the 23rd floor, two men felt the building rock with the second explosion. Housing Authority worker Barry Jennings, 46, had reported there after the initial blast. So had Michael Hess, the city's corporation counsel. After the second plane hit they scrambled downstairs to the lobby, or what was left of it. "I looked around, the lobby was gone. It looked like hell," Mr Jennings said.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20010913/ai_n14406465/print
No mention is made of WTC7. It seems as if J and H are in one of the first two towers.
brianct on Mon, 07/07/2008 - 6:13pm.
It only seems that way if one reads it uncritically
and doesn't know that the "command centre on the 23rd floor" is in WTC 7, and not one of the towers.
This is careful editing work done by someone trying to confuse people into thinking that Mr. Jennings and Mr. Hess were in one of the towers and not WTC 7.
This story also confirms that they were in the building when the second plane hit.
The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.
LeftWright on Thu, 07/10/2008 - 12:54am.