Instant reaction: Seahawks well beaten, drop to 7-3-1
November 27th, 2016 | Written by Rob Staton
Blame it on the injuries, blame it on the offensive line. Blame the putrid offense or the crucial turnovers. Whatever your choice, this was bad.
It's not unexpected that the defense would lose a step missing Earl Thomas, Deshawn Shead and Michael Bennett. That said, the 'plan' to handle Mike Evans at the start of the game was puzzling.
Pete Carroll's mantra of winning games in the fourth quarter has aided this team so many times over the years. Their inability to defend Evans at all cost them 14 early points and put them in an immediate hole from which they never recovered.
Even so, the defense bounced back and made some plays. Frank Clark forced a safety, K.J. Wright's stunning hit ended the half, they forced two turnovers and the Buccs ended the game without adding another point.
They gave the Seahawks a chance to claw their way back into it. They failed because the offense had arguably it's roughest day in the Russell Wilson era.
The two competing games in terms of ineptitude are probably the 2013 Rams road game and the draw in Arizona this year. Against St. Louis, Wilson also had no time to do anything but still managed a couple of big plays (and two touchdowns) to secure a close win. Against the Cardinals, Wilson found some rhythm in overtime and moved the ball with relative ease.
Here — there was nothing. George Fant looked more like George Costanza trying to block Noah Spence. Bradley Sowell replaced Garry Gilliam almost immediately (why not just start Sowell?) and Joey Hunt matched up against Gerald McCoy for his NFL debut.
The results were not pretty.
— 1/11 on third downs
— 118 net passing yards
— Six sacks conceded
Wilson knew this line couldn't block and it appeared to engulf him. He was antsy in a way we haven't seen in a while. On a third down throw needing five yards he fired way above Tyler Lockett's head and was nearly picked. He forced a throw to Paul Richardson and was intercepted. He doubled clutched several times and held onto the ball almost in vain hope that he'd get longer than a couple of seconds to find an open man.
His yardage at half time was a career low 20 yards — beating the 28 he had last time these two teams met.
Wilson didn't play well — but an O-line featuring three rookies played just as poorly if not worse.
The offense consistently floundered. Even when they were given the opportunity to put points on the board — they turned it over. Wilson's pick potentially took three points off the board before half time. Jimmy Graham's fourth quarter fumble prevented them making it a one-score game. Wilson's second interception ended it with a minute to go.
In a sloppy game they were in range to kick the nine points they required and turned it over on each occasion. They lost 14-5 with the offense scoring three points — just as they did in Los Angeles in week two.
Could they have done anything differently? Maybe some deeper drops from play action — but with no running game it's not like the Buccs were going to bite on that. RB Screens? That's often the go-to complaint from fans. The thing is, a good screen relies on the blockers not being tied up with a defender or on their backside. A badly performing O-line can actually be a major issue on screens because you're dumping the ball off, hoping for YAC and downfield blocking.
Simply put — they had to find a way to block better and never achieved it.
Any hopes of a half-time adjustment were blown away with an immediate chop-block penalty on Hunt. 1st and 22. Three-and-out. Punt. Rinse and repeat.
They tried some WR screens and extended hand-off's. It just didn't feel like Seattle's day. They didn't deserve the win — and this time couldn't find a way to get it done.
It ends more than just a three-game winning streak. Momentum was building. The talk of another fearsome late run was growing. This was a bit of a reality check in the sense that while key players will return soon — this team still has some flaws.
The loss almost certainly leaves the Cowboys with a free run to the #1 seed. With Arizona and Los Angeles both losing there was no damage suffered in the NFC West race. The key now is whether they can regroup, get healthy and get back on form against Carolina next week.
Is it a bad time to mention how resurgent the Panthers suddenly look?
On the plus side, K.J. Wright was sensational. His big hit to end the first half, his blowing up of an early screen pass and his TFL on Doug Martin at the start of the second offered hope. One of the more underrated players in the league was a rare positive today.
Frank Clark also had a handful of nice pressures on top of the safety.
It's worth celebrating the defense in general. They battled and scrapped after the two early drives and at least kept Seattle in the game. If only the offense could've managed even an average day instead of an abominable one.
210 Responses to "Instant reaction: Seahawks well beaten, drop to 7-3-1"
nichansen01 says:
in the second quarter, and second half, the defense allowed 0 points. This one is on the offense 100%.
Was not expecting a sin today. Felt like a trap game after last week, but 5 points?
Defense played damn good after the 1st and much better than I thought they would w/o ET.
Ifedi had his worst game. Same with Fant. But, TC will let these guys make mistakes and hope they grow from it.
Inability to convert 3rd downs, the O-line was awful, 3 TOs in TB territory, and no Prosise looks to mean no run game or that added dimension/weapon they need.
Rough game. We'll be alright though.
*win
And man did it make a difference after the refs told WR Mike Evans the arm bar is OK, but we ain't letting ya push off that much.
rowdy says:
But he was still pushing off on most of his catches and they never called it
What do you mean they didn't call it? A referee went to the sideline and told him they weren't gonna allow it. They aren't gonna call every one.
But that's what I mean. They obviously seen him push off and didn't call it. Then he continued to push off, they rarely call it but it's not like it stopped him.
I missed the Col vs Utah game last night and forgot to PVR.
How did Bolles look? Anyone else standout?
Is there any chance the team begins to rethink the traits they look for in offensive linemen if are o-line is still dreadful at the end of the season?
Change to what though?
Instead of big, powerful, long, explosive athletes… take mediocre, middling average joe's?
I be happy with capable backups lewis over hunt could of made all the difference this game
No, but you could sacrifice a little bit of explosion for more refined technique or more "polish." I understand the logic that all o-lineman going from college to the pros need to have their technique re-taught anyway so you might as well start from scratch, but while the rest of the league is full of bad offensive lines, it seems that they aren't as bad as ours and they haven't invested as much draft capital in them. So given our investment in the line and its bad play compared to the rest of the league I'm trying to figure out what's wrong. Were they just unlucky with a few picks, or am I missing something?
I'm here to tell you Daniel — there is no superior technique or polish in college football. Virtually every college O-liner has to learn NFL technique from scratch. You are not drafting a ready made prospect ever, but that is especially true if you go OL.
Also, the rest of the league has a similar issue. This isn't just a Seahawks problem. O-line play across the NFL is horrendous with about 3-4 exceptions.
That makes sense. Thanks for explaining.
EranUngar says:
I have a question about that Rob:
While i accept that "Virtually every college O-liner has to learn NFL technique from scratch", being able to learn is a trait on its own. A player that has learned college technique and excelled at it is more likely to learn NFL technique than a player that failed to learn and become technically polished at college level. (i.e. – once a good student…)
Does that not count?
Not at all — because it's actually worse to learn a technique that is worthless at the next level. It creates bad habits and you almost have to coach out the bad technique before you start.
I'm not sure i buy into that. I coach volleyball and my experiance is that some player are open to coach, will try and work on everything the coach tells them till they get it right while others tend to give up quickly on a new technique that is harder to get right at first.
Some players take much longer till they get a new technique smooth to the level on instinctive muscle memory than others.
Just look at Ifedi's slide step and explain why a top draft candidate after years at a good program still has such a glaring issue? Alabama has good coaches and i'm sure they tried to get him to do it right.
Being able to learn and implement moves is an individual trait that some players have and some don't….
Surely you accept though that there's a difference between an attitude that is open to coaching and naturally being a quick learner — and being a player who is 'exceptionally technically sound' in a heap load of bad technique and therefore needs to forget almost everything they've been taught to start from scratch? That isn't easy.
Also, it's not such a black and white issue. You're not either technically sound and therefore open to coaching or not technically sound and therefore a total bonehead.
As for Ifedi — maybe you could also explain why a guy like Greg Robinson, who also spent years at a good program, was a healthy scratch at the weekend years into his career? Ifedi is a few games into his rookie season. Players have growing pains. Kam Chancellor didn't start as a rookie and then became a generational talent.
Let's have some perspective here.
LordSnow says:
You build around what you have. Britt, keep, Ifedi keep. For lack of nothing better in the pipeline, keep Glowinski, but I admit he's disappointed me this season when I thought going in he'd end up our best lineman. So that's 3 positions. Fant really took a step back today. A big big step back. So you're back to where you were before: the tackles.
Draft one more early and keep working Odhi. Keep this unit together, and don't expect any Cable miracles with some no name off the street. Keep what you have on the interior because it's the hand you dealt yourself but the tackles should be fair game.
I agree Rob this was the worst game for the Offense in the RW era.
On a positive note all division teams lost and we still hold the 2nd seed. I thought the defense once again showed what incredible heart they have. To pitch a shut out after the 1st Q missing 3 key players when you have no offense is amazing.
I for one would prefer to play in Dallas than Sea so I am fine with the 2 seed I just want to get that OL figured out and get guys healthy. If we do then today will just seem like a bad dream in a couple of weeks.
Still I thought today magnified the weakness of this team the OL. This why despite my love of Dem Walker, Charlton etc. on the defensive side of the ball I truly believe Bolles or Feeney has to be the pick in RD #1 to try and add talent and fix this OL once and for all.
Andrew C Taylor says:
Just adding talent to the OL may not be enough. Ifedi had a horrible game, hunt well it was his first start, and Fant well we keep saying he is improving but he took a step back. It sure did not take long to replace Gilliam with Sowell and RW was sacked multiple time and under pressure all the time. Add turnovers to the mix and we did not have a chance. That said Hawks will come back next week and get a W.
Midway thru the third qtr I would have preferred the staff to dial up a quicker pace to this offense to try to get something sustained, change of pace, or just bring some energy to this offense.
I know you love Jermaine Kearse, but really, opposing teams are leaving him one on one and not fearing what he provides. They need someone who can physically win his matchup because right now everything must be perfect for him to get a catch.
Russell IS healthy, that's a positive.
Joey Hunt needs to be a backup and stay a backup. he's just too small. Fant sure did suck today. As a power forward, I wonder if he ever played defense – he looked like Ben Ossai out there. As far as Gilliam, it sure must be the ultimate insult to get benched in favor of Sowell. Can it get any lower than that?
I love Rawls, but I guess we're seeing it wasn't all Cmike's fault. That oline is the lowest paid in the NFL, and deserves to be the lowest paid. Tom Cable can't bake a cake with this group.
This game wasn't on Hunt. He did what he could.
Let me rephrase it. This team needs to resign Justin Britt, and I cringe writing that.
I agree about cmike, Rawls looks the same as he did
sdcoug says:
Matches a lot of my frustrations. I'll withhold my bevell rants, cause that's just not acceptable on this board, but doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. It was clear from the second drive that we were being overwhelmed, but we didn't do much to mix it up. No hurry up. First slant to Jimmy (which negates a pass-rush) didn't happen till under two minutes left in the first half. When players aren't getting it done, it falls on coaching adjustments to help them succeed.
Spot on with Kearse. I would rather his touches go to Preach and McEvoy. At least they bring a unique trait (speed/height) to the offense. People here can point to all his big catches. Fine, I'll point to the fact it was mostly his drops putting us in the position where we needed those big catches in the first place. Check out Russ's QB rating throwing to Kearse vs every one else
The response to the criticism of Kearse always frustrates me, because no one is saying dump him to the sewer. It would be better if he returned to his role in 2013 off the bench. People forget he made many many of his huge catches as a BACKUP. His role would change, but he would still be a part of the offense.
And we don't know how good Prich's speed or McEvoy's size would play out without them having a chance to develop a trust with Wilson. We'll never know. Honestly, this is where I was hoping Kasen Williams would have come on this preseason and by now have forced his way into the starting lineup, but I'm guessing that ship has sailed too.
It's not that Bevell rants are 'not acceptable' — it's just I want to try and create a debate that is above the usual internet forum hand-wringing of every bad result = hammer the offensive coordinator. It is so basic it is unreal — and every set of fans in the NFL does it. There are so many moving parts in a football game, so many things we don't understand. And yet fans feel perfectly qualified to critique the offensive coordinator as a major negative after every bad result. You say here, for example, when players aren't getting it done it's down to the coaches to adjust. Why? Why are the players absolved from blame?
Let's move on.
Oh I think the coaches could have adjusted the game plan. Certainly. I was hoping to see more up tempo and see if they could get a rhythm going and get the Bucs on their heels a bit. I was pleading for it in the third qtr. It was clear the oline was completely overmatched, had no confidence, and were blowing their assignments.
I never once absolved the players from blame. Clear as day the Oline wasn't getting it done. Just as they don't routinely get it done against LA, AZ, Car, etc. That's the point. We don't adequately adjust to mitigate the damage when a D line is having their way with us. That is on coaches.
It's too simplistic an argument sdcoug. The first play of the half was a quick WR screen to Kearse for a solid gain and it was called back on a chop block by the rookie center. Instead of second and short it's 1st and 22. So whatever 'adjustment' you've planned is suddenly out of the window in a flash.
You can spend all the half time making adjustments. That's a basic error by the center and boom — three and out.
What's more, did Bevell fumble or was it Graham? Did RW forced the first pick to Richardson? Was it the coaches making those mistakes?
And what if the adjustments don't work? Is a coach ripe for criticism unless he's absolutely perfect making adjustments? On the days when the other team just plays better, is it right to hammer the coach for not somehow magically finding a way (as they have so many times, I'll add)?
This instant need for a scapegoat — and the ease with which Bevell and Cable fit the role — is just so tiresome.
Rob, I'm a pro Bevell and a pro Kearse fan. I've never been on the fire Bevell weagon.
However, Bevell has a job to do and that is to prepare the Offense to play on game day. When that offense fails as missurably as they did yesterday, he has to be a part of the problem. The OL played bad, RW was not his great self, Graham fumbled and Bevell had no answers to it all.
I am not saying we should cut Graham or RW after yesterday and the same applies to the fire Bevell slogan. I'm just saying that they should all feel they are partly responsible for that poor display and they need to do better (OL included…).
p.s. – The DL is not stopping the run lately. They are being pushed back constantly in the past month and stretch runs are becoming a problem. It opens up play action plays and keeps the heavy package on the field constantly and effecting the pass rush. It is becoming an issue….
You can prepare all you want Eran. If the other team dominates your O-line, even the best laid plans are going to fail.
The idea that the reason the Seahawks lost yesterday due to a lack of planning or preparation — I'm not buying it. The OL had their asses handed to them and it severely impacted Wilson to the tune of one of the worst games of his career. It happens. We move on. I don't think we have to spend every loss critiquing Bevell.
And I should clarify, I'm not blaming this game on kearse either. I just don't see what he brings to the table that someone else couldn't do on a more consistent basis given his reps.
smitty1547 says:
He brought something as a 700K back up, but as a 4 mil a year starter Im with you, would rather see a descent tackle or guard out there with that money.
Exactly. How can you justify paying Kearse $4m a year when he's performing like this, meanwhile the line is getting absolutely obliterated. Horrendous allocation of resources.
If you didn't resign Kearse and didn't sign Webb, you could have actually signed a decent FA tackle maybe.
Kearse isn't the only player facing single coverage.
He caught another 4th quarter ball with the game on the line, on 4th and 15 in front of our endzone.
Ad he was wide open behind the defense on that deep miss to Lockette. Would have won yet another Seahawk game if the line could block and Russell could see, and kept us in the hunt for postseason homefield.
Well, would have kept us in position to win
He had one catch on 5 targets today. I love him as a player and was glad for the resigning. He can and should play a valuable role on this team…as a backup.
They should look to add to that spot in the draft, or what is on the roster this offseason. It won't happen right now in the middle of this run, but it needs to be addressed at some point. It isnt happening this season, it just isn't.
I think we will be alright but Wilson was constantly sacked, hurried and the OLine just kept wiffing on 4 man rush. Our DL did not generate enough pressure although the defense stepped up and still only allowed 14 points. This was clearly on the offense it seems 2 steps forward then 1.5 steps back.
It is clear to me that Britt is now the glue for this young OL and IMO extending him this off season is ever bit as important as taking care of Kam and Bennett.
Would love to see Bolles added at OT and keep the rest of the unit together for a whole off season to really gel and grow.
There were awful games near the end of 2013 as well so don't loose hope.
MJ says:
I'm afraid of a 3-3 finish. The remaining schedule on paper is "easy," but the teams we face are talented or cause us headaches (STL). Color me worried until things change.
TB outplayed Seattle. It happens.
The remaining schedule looks brutal to me. I don't care about the records. Too many division rivals, and two playoff rivals who hate us as much as we hate them.
Russ is healthy finally and that is huge. Get Britt back to sure up the middle of the OL and things will only get better.
OL and RB still the focus early in the draft IMO which sucks because there is sooooo much defensive talent in this draft.
There is a ton of defensive talent which means good players will slip through the cracks.
Russell was repeatedly off, he had plays to make when he rarely had a clean pocket or eluded pressure.. His worst game since 95% of the NFC Championship. When people talked of an "easy" schedule, they went by record, not the strengths of the defensive lines coming up, this was a mess against a lately improving but suspect D.
Bruuuuuce!
Him and Mack just end the game for Carolina.
I know he was too pricey for us but I really do miss Bruce. Thinking about him with the ever improving Wright and Wagner would be an amazing LB Corp.
Vol you think that kid from UCLA could play the same role as Bruce did?
Absolutely. I'm not sure about him in coverage, they don't use him that way, but Bruce wasn't either at W.Virginia.
The kid from UCLA will go in the top-12.
He does look pretty special athletically. Could be this years Ziggy Ansah ?
This years draft class seems loaded on D wow! Rob you are right about the special athletes wanting to play D now coming out of HS. It has become really clear that is for sure.
The Hawk is Howling says:
Well it can't rain all the time. Sometimes matchups in the NFL just don't work out on particular day's. It's a bummer but can't wait till next week.
Go Hawks
negative neil says:
Well what can you say? The offense reverted to the Rams/ cardinals performance. Did they take this game lightly? probably.However, 10-5-1 is a real possibility now, but that might still hold the #2 seed.Looking at the Giants and Falcon schedules, they both have 3 loseable games left. If the Giants only lose 2 though the Hawks would be 3 seed.
Giants can't be the #2 seed if Dallas is #1.
Right I forgot about that. Hopefully the Vikings will go to 6 losses next week. The Lions could lose 2 of their last3 games. So maybe the Hawks are still in good shape. The question is which Panthers team will we see next week. A disspirated one or one using the Hawks as their playoff game.
Greg Haugsven says:
If we can go 4-1 down the stretch that should get us the #2 seed. Either Atlanta or Detroit would have to go 5-0 to get the 2.
Think it's going to be tough going 4-1 down the stretch. Think we lose at least 2 of Rams, Cards, Panthers, Packers.
DavidM2 says:
I think the Hawks forgot to eat their Wheaties this morning…
I think they forgot how to run the god damn ball. This is a PC offense? Hard to see and type it. Their putting too much on RW.
I think he realizes that OL gets no push what so ever. You can't keep running when you are not getting at least 2-3 yds. It has to be driving him absolutely crazy.
That is what makes the fact this D still leads in scoring D all the more impressive. They have been on the feild a ton because of no run game. I think it is a big reason for all the injuries.
Well, in case you guys missed today's highlights. Here you go, https://youtu.be/qYVRqN03aHw I think the Rhino pretty much sums it up.
Sacks and penalties. Really tough to run the ball, when the QB is immediately getting dumped on his butt. Seeing the way the Bucs where able to move the ball straight out of the gate, I think it stands to reason the coaches felt they needed to get to the passing game early.
Ground_Hawk says:
Even though Britt didn't play, I'm not sure his presence would have saved the day. Seattle REALLY needs to work on the O-line. LordSnow said, "Tom Cable can't bake a cake with this group," and I agree with that statement, because as much flak as TC has caught over the years this group of players is not the answer, and I'm not sure how much success any O-line coach could have with them. Although the FO has made investments into the offensive side of the trenches, they need to add more. 3 total points on offense is just sad, for comparison the Browns managed 13 points against the arguably better defense of the Giants.
While the OL salary is minuscule, the investment in the OL over the last few years has been significant (draft capitalz0. This, to me, is more about a lack of being able to scout OL worth a damn.
I have been saying the same thing for a long time. They let Cable pick his own guys and it is not working. He may be able to coach guys. For that he deserves a ton of credit! But he cannot scout talent IMO they need to get Paul Allen to break out the check book and hire the Cowboys OL scout. Kidding but not really.
"They let Cable pick his own guys and it is not working"
It was my understanding Cable is given a list of players to look at and then he offers his input. This is hardly him getting to pick his own guys. The fact is we don't know how they select OL. There's nothing to suggest Cable is 'scouting' college players. He's coaching the team.
Plus it's easy to say 'hire the Cowboys OL scout'. Does that scout also come with two top-15 picks so they can select players akin to the talent of Smith and Martin?
And don't JS/PC hold rank in that war room? I mean I get they trust Cable, but doubt they give him carte blanche.
Vol name an OL that you think Cable did not personally hand pick. His comments after each draft tell it all such as Rees this year being the strongest guy he put his hands on along with Ifedi.
Again though — it's my understanding he's given a list of possibilities and he offers his input, does his work, works some guys out. It stands to reason that after doing all of that and picking the guy he will speak positively about the person drafted. That's a world away from 'hand picking' your guys.
You maybe right Rob and if so i will stand corrected but I have never heard another position coach talk about the draft picks the way Cable does. I am sure you are right and they short list a group of OL but is not a given anyways given the physical specifications he wants TEF? He does not have a ton of guys to even evaluate.
If they use something like TEF (we don't know for 100% sure) then it does limit the options — but I doubt it's all-encompassing and without exception plus it's also with good reason. Drafting mediocre (or worse) athletes and then expecting them to block the monsters playing D-line in the NFL is like sticking your hand in a viper nest and not expecting to get bitten.
I am a fan of the TEF by the way and hope they do use something like that for our sake!
Rob I am giving Cable is props as a coach but it is also very clear that they let him pick the guys he wants to work with. For the amount of draft capital we have spent on the OL vs other potions we should have better results. Imagine if Cable could not coach these guys up.
I am not calling for him to be fired or anything but we have had a below average OL every year since Pete has been here so they need to try something different evaluation wise IMO.
Do you think Cable had no say in Sowell or Webb either. It is just furstrating every year to be hoping that somehow Cable can patch together a working unit by the end of the year when the rest of the team is stacked and firing on all cylinders.
I think they trust Cable. But, remember. JS made his bones as a scout. This entire scouting staff does a great job of identifying what each position coach looks for. They put names on the board, on a list, however they do it, and IMO they pick from that.
Its hard enough as an organization to find 8-10 guys you 'love' to draft, let alone the O-lineman that are coming from the college ranks these days.
Good point Vol and it looks like Britt may in fact turn out and I have high hopes for Ifedi. So maybe in a year or two the picks they made will be talked upon with reverence because they have gelled into a solid unit. JS has just killed all the other positions in the draft so perhaps expectations are just too high.
Yeah, the O-line has been the 1 position they've struggled to nail, but its not due to lack of draft capital. They had to skimp somewhere to keep this D together.
I think Britt gets extended this off-season. Ifedi will be fine. He's still learning. They just need 1 more OT and probably a vet as a backup on the interior. That won't stop them from spending a pick or two every year and grabbing that special athlete in UDFA.
Now that I think about it more it may be that the reason their offensive line is so bad is that they haven't been resigning players they draft to second contracts (I'm guessing this is due to both the the inflated market for offensive linemen and the ridiculous amount of talent they need to pay at other positions). As a result of not resigning talent on the o-line they are left with a bunch of young, inexperienced, and sub-par players starting. Imagine if our starting line right now went Okung, Sweezy, Unger, Carpenter, and Ifedi. It wouldn't be an amazing line, but it would be ok.
Rob – What are your honest opinions about Germain Ifedi so far?
Feels like he's gonna have to stay on the interior and hasn't shown any spurts of dominance outside of a handful of plays throughout the year. Is it time to worry about him? And no, I don't mean replace him or anything crazy like that, but I do find it worrisome that a 1st Round interior OL is failing to perform at even an Average standard so far. I'm most worried about him seemingly "miss" a ton of blocks. For a guy like Fant, I can understand, but for Ifedi (again) it is worrisome to me.
Keep up the good work and hope you enjoyed your time in Seattle!
Ifedi has had some good games and some bad games.
Which is what I would expect from a rookie OL playing on an inexperienced OL.
Thx for the response. Do you think he is interior only, at this point? Or any chance at RT in the future?
I'd rather he stay at guard and solidify that position personally. They need some consistency up front, some growth.
I agree I think had he not gotten hurt early and was playing on a more experienced OL then his results would be much more consistent. You can tell the talent is clearly there. I have big hopes for Ifedi and hope they let him, Britt and Glow grow together to really solidify the middle of that OL.
I'm not saying this is all Bevell, but it's time to get rid of the Cable/Bevell team. Too many offensive slow starts. If you know what you have (or don't have), do something else. Want to be the bully, be the bully. Get a bruiser (Rawls has shown he can do it) and move a man blocking scheme. Glow/Britt/Ifedi can move people off the ball, quit with zone scheme and just blow people up.
22nd in scoring
17th total yards
29th rushing yards
30th in first downs
21st 3rd down %
Those aren't good statistics
Seahawks lose — fans call for Cable and Bevell to be fired.
Enough already.
Actually, I say it if they win. I didn't blame this loss on him, but the slow starts and offensive issues can't all be put on bad oline. Other teams have bad oline, so they do other things to minimize. Today, again, not really done. Even late, I saw a lot of 5-7 step drops when the oline was getting manhandled.
Not just about the loss, it's about many things and you continue to defend DB when the Hawks have a good game, but pass the blame when the O struggles (If you're related, let me know and I will stop calling for a change). ha ha.
For a team being so successful on O (as you always try and support), he has not gotten any HC sniffs. What does that tell you?
Anyways, Hawks still control the west and are a game up for 2nd place in the conference, so take care of business and still can get a bye and home game and go to Dallas for the upset.
I didn't see any of this talk about slow starts etc in the previous three wins against Buffalo, New England or Philly.
Seahawks lose — people start complaining about the two guys they are happy to criticise. The scapegoats. Same old, same old.
AlaskaHawk says:
You know Rob- you don't have to spend your energy defending Bevell and Cable. You have the choice of letting those comments go unanswered and spending your time with more constructive comments.
Firstly — I am not 'defending' Bevell. I'm merely highlighting that the automatic want and need to criticise him (and Cable) after every Seahawks loss is predictable and over simplistic. Sometimes criticism is warranted (I have occasionally criticised Bevell in my post-game pieces) — but it's got to the point now where even a good offensive performance in a loss comes with the calls to fire somebody (or cut Jimmy Graham — that's the other regular favourite).
Secondly — I do feel the need to reply to those comments because I think it helps nip it in the bud quite quickly and prevents the comments section on this blog deteriorating in a way other forums do into a mass of pitchforks and torches calling for the heads of the offensive coaching staff.
Kenny Sloth says:
Great points, Rob. I would like to keep Bevell around if only for consistency w RW. I don't think he called a very good game today. FB run on 3rd and 2
SeventiesHawksFan says:
I don't state my opinion about it very often and I feel the same way after wins, but I don't think Bevell is the best we can do as an offensive coordinator at all. It's rather easy for even casual fans to simply look at the Hawks pre snap formation and predict how the play will turn out. Which is coupled with frequent inexplicably terrible play calls in the red zone on low percentage plays that have no chance. I think he often sets up the offense for failure. Seems to only snap out of it and when we're behind really needing to score and it's hard for to imagine us ever being a great offense with him as coordinator. Though I also think we'll be passably above average with him as well. And he will occasionally call a nice game. Maybe if his critics would offer that opinion after they win, they'd be taken more seriously. But then it's usually characterized as misplaced as well, because hey they won. I think he's a mediocre, uninspiring coordinator at best. And Pete and John would do well to seek a more capable person for the job. Especially when our extended history of struggles in the red zone is what it is.
PC has been ruthless with his coordinators in the past (see: Jeremy Bates). I'm willing to trust there's a good reason why he believes Bevell is the right man to help coordinate his offense.
I see the offense on a downward spiral which has been masked by Lynch, then Russell Wilson and Baldwin/Graham's performance. It is all tied into the offensive line. The big question is how did we arrive at the line we have? Why do the Seahawks always look poor at beginning of season? Why does the offense usually start slow in the first half?
I see that as a major overreaction. Seattle's offense was singing to end last season and finished the year #1 per DVOA. They were sensational vs Buffalo, NE and Philly. One bad day and it's a crisis?
They are one in the same its not that they want to cut jimmy, however if you have a OC who does not use him properly and puts a 10 million $ TE in line to block who cant block, its somewhat a waste of cap capital. However they have been doing a better job of that although not great.
Jimmy Graham is on pace for a 1000 yard season and before the weekend was the second most productive TE in the league behind Greg Olsen in terms of yardage. I suspect that is still the case.
Plus Graham's blocking has been nothing short of tremendous so far this year.
Michael M. says:
Ed – I can't help but notice that 4 of the 5 statistics you threw out are counting stats. This is almost always a terrible way to evaluate the Seattle Seahawks because unlike Chip Kelly and his 1-10 team, they're not trying to set a record for number of plays run in a game/season. It's about efficiency. You'd be better served looking at DVOA or at least points per drive instead of things like total yards.
Then there's the issue of sample size… Yes, this game was atrocious. An absolutely abysmal performance. But I'd caution against evaluating Bevell or Cable over the sample size of one game, or even the 11 games of this season (much of which Russ was playing with one leg…) when there is far more data available to include in your consideration. Since 2012 the Seahawks offense has finished 4th, 7th, 5th, and 1st in overall offensive efficiency as measured by DVOA. They were #9 coming into this game (though they will surely drop after this disaster).
These stats would suggest that these guys are good at what they do, so unless you think that something tied to their intrinsic coaching ability has changed that now makes them considerably worse than their track record, why would you want to fire them?
I totally agree about stats. As the stats you show can be looked at the same way. They can show a picture that isn't entirely true. And it isn't about a pitchfork mentality only when the Hawks lose. I find Bevell to be a middle of the pack at best offensive gameplaner and below average game adapter. Wilson has gotten this team and offense to look a lot better by his normally high late game antics. His improvisational skills and escapability have masked yes a poor offensive line, but also inflated stats and numbers by his abilities.
Did the Hawks win a SB, yes, are they continually in the playoff hunt, yes. But if you look at the Hawks in the PC years, 9 out of 10 loses are because of the offense. Bevell and Cable have been here a long time. Maybe they get someone better with more ingenuity. Maybe they get someone a little worse, that wouldn't change much of what has already been a repeating history.
Ramdom thoughts.
1. Credit the Bucs. They came out on fire, and bullied the bully.
2. Credit the defense adjusting and settling in, doing enough to give the offense a chance. I thought Steven Terrell had a decent game. IMO, the D is most vulnerable with plays to the outside, Bucs took advantage, but other teams have been having success as well. I think we have two great linebackers in KJ and Bobby, but we're subpar at SAM, and kinda getting by. Carolina will no doubt try to exploit this again.
3. Starting 3 rookies on the OL, replacing the starting RT in game, clearly wasn't ideal. I don't think Hunt was terrible, but my hunch is that the OL missed it's best player in Justin Britt today. Today, it looked like we good play out of Glownski, and not good, or good enough play out of anyone else. This was rough. I'm curious as to what is going on with Gilliam and why that switch was made, and.. perhaps whether he is going to be on the team next week.
4. On the positives, it was good seeing RW run the ball, as bad as the offense was, it still felt like they could do enough to pull out the win in the 4th quarters. 3 turn overs in the red zone was the story of the game. Just can't do that and win.
5. Personally, I think I might be done with the George Farmer experiment. Rough game to try and get him going in, and maybe this is just me, but I kinda sensed a player maybe being a bit lost out there.
6. In my glass half full outlook, maybe Seattle needed to lose this game today in this fashion. They didn't seem to match the Bucs in intensity. They're going to have the Panthers coming in trying to hold onto their division hopes, Seattle needs to get that fire back, now. Getting Britt back should help. Getting Bennett back on the DL will be a godsend.
7. In terms of the draft, I guess after a game like this, you could pick your poison with what you think the team needs to grab. For my $, if there's some special offensive talent sitting there in R1, I'd love to see Seattle grab that guy.
3. They want to see them both play and compare the film. Creating competition is what PC said.
6. Sometimes, and its tough, you learn more about yourself in a loss than you do a win.
This is a weird speculation, re: 6, but I wonder knowing that the whole NFC West lost today, they didn't decide to get cute with experimenting with personal. I agree with Rob in that it felt weird to make that RT switch early in the game. It was also weird seeing Will Tukuafu playing DL early when they have a stampede of DLs already active in the game. And having Farmer in the game in the critical late moments of the game and not Rawls, IMO, was really strange. But it is what it is. Far be it for me to question a HC who has won national championships and a Super Bowl, and keeps this team heading towards the playoffs every year since he took over the job.
Just a really odd game today all the way around. But kind of not so odd in that we were still in it into the 4th quarter.
Posted this in wrong spot earlier.
Ehh. They don't sustain their blocks well. Utah that is. And it could've just been Colorado getting off their blocks, but they also couldn't get to the 2nd level with any consistency.
Thanks Vol. Anyone standout from Col. They have a couple of interesting guys in the secondary.
S/DB Tedric Thompson is very exciting. Has the ball skills and range of a FS, but is built more like a SS. Also plays CB for them when they start to press teams.
CB Ahkello Witherspoon sure looks like a Seahawk target at CB. Does he play the run well enough?
DT Josh Tupuo plays angry and is a man amongst boys a lot of times. 2 down NT or 1-tech. Has some off field issues so he could and will probably go late.
LB Kenneth Olugbode is all speed. Nice project as a WILL.
EDGE Jimmie Gilbert looks interesting in an Obum Gwachum kind of way. If I had to guess, probably goes in the same range. 6th-UDFA.
Glad you like Thompson and he played well. He was a guy I was going to ask about. Seems like a rel ball hawk and at least on hi-lights hits like a ton.
Seems like a versatile guy the Hawks might like. Where is he currently rated? Could he be a mid round option?
Good question. I think he is rated as such. With this safety and corner class being so good, its gonna push some talented defenders down the board.
Yeah he could be an option.
It they loose Mcray as a FA a guy like him who could play both spots might be of real value and we know they like guys with ball skills.
Did Obum Gwaachum make a team this year?
Forrest says:
After watching the PC press conference I think this team will come roaring back next week. The defense will only get better with the likely returns of ET, Shead, and Bennett. I think the offense is going to get a dressing down tomorrow and will come in focused next week. This team could win out…I don't think the #1 seed is possible, but #2 seed is in their grasp. Three big wins made this game feel like a trap game for sure. It reminded me of the 2013 Cardinals game in Seattle (the defense looked great for 95% of that game, and the offense was terrible). Either way, I'm not too worried, and come playoff time this team is a different animal. Go Hawks!!
DC says:
Anyone have a scouting report on Patriots RT Marcus Cannon? I remember he fell in the draft due to injury but was a guy I thought the Hawks might have had interest in.
It's funny how quickly divisional power shifts. The NFC West has cycled to the NFC Worst and the NFC Least is now quite stacked.
Cannon started the year with a lot of talk he was going to be cut. It's my understanding he's been used predominantly as a swing tackle. Not a player I'd covet for Seattle personally.
Roger that. Thanks.
Ishmael says:
Couple of quick thoughts
Rawls isn't magically going to turn the running game on all by his one-sie. Like Michael, he's going to need slightly more than basement trash work from the O-Line to get things moving.
Prosise was missed more than I thought he would be. He's a bit like Tevin Coleman in Atlanta – probably not able to put a team on his back in the run game, but the run/pass thread he brings is lethal.
After the first quarter weirdness the defence were pretty much lights out. No points, a safety, an interception, and a forced fumble. Not sure how much more you can ask for than that.
That's three times now this season where the offence has completely shit the bed – the Rams loss, the Cards draw, and now today. I don't know enough about football to start talking about where the blame lies. But I have to think Britt being out blew up way worse than expected. That was rough out there today. It's an inexperienced O-Line, and when things start going bad it's probably no surprise to see it spiral a bit out of control.
I like the Coleman comp. I've heard Ricky Waters too, due to them both being former receivers from ND, but the Coleman is better as of now.
The defense is not the issue. Not by a long shot. They kept us in this game and it was blown opportunity after another. RW did his thing scrambling, but they gotta fix the run game so every game isn't dependent on RW being nearly flawless. Its unattainable and puts a ton of pressure on the defense.
And I'm not saying you were suggesting or implying anything about the D. Let me clarify that. I'm in agreement with ya there.
Yeah, all good man. I'm with you. I was totally spooked in the first quarter, but they pulled it together and did another incredible job.
I think the blame for the offensive performance comes down to the following:
— A terribly inexperienced O-line getting their asses kicked
— The impact of the poor OL performance on Wilson and the way he became antsy
No doubt that. It was an awful performance and hopefully a learning experience for them. Because there's no magic solution.
Is it as simple as that?
Do the skill players have anything to do with it? The WRs, the TEs, the RBs? What did we think about the play-calling balance?
Obviously it's difficult to know without going back over the All-22, but if it really is as simple as the O-Line going to pieces then Britt suddenly becomes just about priority #1 over the off-season. If he's been the solidifying force over the last few weeks, then pay the man.
On first glance that's what I'd put it down to. The O-line having a majorly bad day and the way it impacted Wilson even when he wasn't sacked.
Of course there's a chance there are other reasons too — but having watched the game once using TV copy that was my first impression.
Yeah, same here, I was just wondering if there was more going on that I'd missed on first glance.
Something that I think is missing is any sort of intermediate passing game. In games where the run gets bottled up, we're constantly being forced into trying to make massive chunk plays. I know PC wants those explosive plays, but there's something to be said for the sort of 7/8 yard plays that it feels like Atlanta are constantly peeling off.
I think the worst thing they could do with this O-line is going into the off-season with 3-4 different or new starters.
Totally. Think they have to stick with Fant – Glow – Britt – Ifedi and then go hunting for a RT. If Odiambo beats out Fant for LT in training camp then that's awesome, and a happy surprise, but they're going to have to take their lumps with this core. They've actually been fine with Britt in, so hopefully his return next week will stabilise everything again.
Absolutely. In fact, I'd like to see one offseason priority perhaps be looking to extend Britt
All indication say they won't. Resigning oline is something they just don't seem to do. For some reason continuity on the oline is not something they ever went for.
They extended Max Unger after Carroll's first or second year in town.
That's one and that was 5 years ago when you couldn't roll over the salary cap money. It's not out of the question I'm I hope they do resign him but I wouldn't bet on it.
The player needs to actually earn or warrant the extension. Dolling out money for the sake of it is not the way to keep your core together long term.
Britt is clearly worthy of an extension based on the evidence so far — and will likely receive one if his play continues to prosper.
Adog says:
I have to wonder what would have happened if we still had Patrick Lewis on the roster. After all it was his presence and leadership that helped turn around the offensive line last year. I believe that hunt will be good in time, but he was in deep water today…looks small and inexperienced. Obviously this experience will help him immensely. There seems to be some discord between the receivers and Wilson. They look like they're on different pages of the play book. There's probably more to Baldwin flipping the bird to bevell than we know. The constant and futile attempts to get Kearse the ball whether he's open or not is strange enough as well. The problem with the offensive line is that they're throwing the ball more than they're running it. They are a line built to run the ball…so run it! The results can't be more worse than today.
mantis says:
i also would add that they never came to play, initially
During the game I said oline problems in this game is all on the coaches and someone said that it's not there fault the line had 3 rookies on it. My point was they hand pick the rookies over experience versatile linemen. The choice to go cheap and with rookies is on them.
So it's the coaches fault the front office chose not to sign experienced vets?
That doesn't make any sense.
And which experienced vets did they snub for these rookies? Because I've just watched Russell Okung give up a horrendous sack/safety vs Kansas City.
Pete has final say over the roster. I think lewis is obvious and making no attempt to bring in any worthy tackle is an obvious gaffe. Sure they would of had to spend more on a tackle but the money they paid Webb and Sowell could of went to a better tackle instead of waiting for the guys no one wanted
I don't think Lewis would've made much difference today to be honest. Hard to say that was a gaffe considering the way Britt has performed.
The cost of Webb + Sowell in 2016 was a total $3.4m cap hit. I'm not sure what tackle they were going to bring in for $3.4m.
Hunt struggled today and was overmatched and to my eye couldn't make the right calls. Lewis isn't great but knows the offense can make the calls and was always decent in taking on blockers. There might not of been great options this year but the hawks haven't been bringing in any competent tackles in for years and it's killing the offense.
Sure, but we're discussing a backup center here. I don't think they would've played that much better, or won the game, with Lewis in there. Lewis was the starter when a similar thing happened in Carolina in the playoffs last season. Britt missing a game was unfortunate and if he'd played, we wouldn't be talking about Lewis vs Hunt.
Dumbquestions says:
This was the kind of game where I think Prosise would have been useful. Not a difference-maker, but useful. The fact is, the defense held enough to preserve winning chances until midway through Q4 – and RW's desperation offense nearly made a win possible. Against a defense running hot, you need a strong safety valve, and it just wasn't there. Rawls isn't the answer in that sense.
Obviously, if you can't block, you can't win, and everything else looks bad – I understand that. I *hope* this game turns into a point of pride/teaching moment for the OL – and frankly, it couldn't have happened at a better time, under better circumstances. Overconfidence is not what this team needs. I hate to call it an affordable loss, but that's what it was. Unfortunately, it reduces the margin for error in the games ahead.
What worried me most was the picks. I suspect TB took some time trying to understand RW's tendencies on improv throws and soft tosses, guessing where he was likely to go and jumping in. If other defenses pick up on TB's lying-in-wait approach to neutralize RW, that could be very bad.
These types of games expose something that remains a Seattle weakness: mid-range passing. It's always bombs or screen-y quickies to the sidelines. It's mysterious that Lockett and Richardson seem to lack slot-style skills, the sort you associate with Julian Edelman, Cole Beasley and (once upon a time) Wes Welker. They're speedy, but not shifty. The weakness becomes more obvious when other elements aren't working. Are defenses learning to take Baldwin away, forcing RW to rely on others? I can't tell.
I am not down on Kearse per se – but I don't understand his function in the game plan. He's big, but not really big. Physical, but not uber-physical. Spectacular one play, pedestrian the next.
Like the call on the mid-range passing, I just wrote something similar up above.
Agree with pretty much all of your post, all of the points have me nodding in agreement.
Just on Kearse, nailed it. And it's a problem that pops up with a few of our receivers. Willson, Kearse, Richardson, McEvoy, even Lockett to an extent. They either go off or they don't really show up. Did Lockett even have a reception today?
All fairness, I think RW had a bad day, which contributed – and most of it wasn't his fault. He is *not* fully recovered.
I'm wondering if on the first sack he hurt his pec again because those throws were pretty consistently off for the whole game
RealRhino2 says:
I agree with that, and why I think some blame should go to Bevell. I get the overall numbers, but he's like a guy who is really good at driving to his right but has no left hand. Against 80% of guys you put up numbers, but if you come up with somebody quick enough to force you to go left and you got nothing, you stink. That's Bevell to me. Great against most teams, but the 20% of the time we play a defensive front with quick LBs such as (wait for it, and see if these names have anything that correlates to our offensive performance) Miami and LA, he has no counter.
It's like if you went to Bevell before the game and say, okay, our OL is getting gashed and Russ is getting happy feet when he has to stand in the pocket so he's missing throws, what should we do?, his answer is, Uh, try harder? It's not, for example, use the read option a ton to slow the dang DE once in a while (we did, it worked, so we abandoned it). It's not, for example, throw slants so we get the throw out quicker (we did, once, then stopped, I think). It's not, for example, to get Rawls running outside, or use power more, or actually get JFG off the end of the OFL and out wide instead of wasting him.
That should be the gameplan for next week. Darrell, imagine our OL is getting blown up so we can't do all the things you normally want to do. Now plan around that from the start.
One thing I have noticed is when Russ gets pressure up the middle like most QBs he gets antsy feet and struggles. That is why Donald and the Rams give us so much trouble as well as Short and Carolina. Well with Britt being out today TB was able to do the same with Mccoy and it was compounded with Fant and Sowell struggling off the edge. When Britt get back to shore up the middle everyone will look better. At least I think.
Fant finally looked like the novice he is today. It will be telling how he bounces back. I hope it does not hurt his confidence and development because I think he has a ton of potential.
A good way to notice if a QB is feeling pressure up the middle is exactly that. The lower half of his body gets out of whack.
Rob please post your 7 round mock soon 🙂 Need to forget about this game ASAP!
Thanks! Love when you do those to get some sleeper / late round guys to check out.
Once again so appreciative of the blog and all your hard work on here!
Seconded. Is that a word?
I wouldn't be overly excited with the late rounders — they don't have a 4th or 5th rounder and the 6th and 7th rounders are two familiar names in this mock. Hard to identify those late rounders at this stage until after the combine.
icb12 says:
Did AC get even one tote in this game?
I think that is incredibly telling.
Was kind of hoping they might get the run game going to at least get a look at him with multiple carries on a drive so he might get some rhythm. Hate to write a guy off when it seems he has not really gotten much of a chance. But clearly with him not even being active last week they are not that high on him. He never fit their draft profile at all for RBs as Rob highlighted so I am shocked he was even taken. If he is not getting carries now with all the injuries and lack of production have to wonder if he ever will.
Why would they keep him over cmike then? I don't get it after all Rawls isn't looking any better then cmike
Cmike wasn't cut purely for football reasons. That much is obvious.
I think that's obvious too.
pretty pessimistic take on it.
I find it more curious than "telling".
He hasn't been cut and he's been active for every game. He's reportedly losing weight and in the best condition he's ever been. I find that more telling personally.
I am not being pessimistic just realisitc. I hope he turns into the next Beast Mode but more likely he is not back next year.
He was not active last week by the way. They activated Pope an UDFA they cut earlier in the year and just got off the Jets practice roster. Yesterday Farmer got more action and he is a converted WR off the practice roster. That tells you exactly what the Hawks think of Collins.
Imagine how much that plane from TB to Sea would suck tonight! I think these guys are going to come out on fire next week.
TB's defense won this game for them. They left a lot of points and yards out there today.
And that TB front is not better than Philly's. That's what is frustrating.
I have a hunch Seattle wasn't up for this matchup like Tampa Bay was. That could just be coach speak, but that 3 game winning streak included a tough hard fought MNF game, going to Foxboro and beating the Patriots, and then another hard hitting game against a good Eagles team. There's a chance TB was more up for this. It felt that way.
As for the OL, I kinda have a sneaking feeling that if Britt was in the game, he might have been able to do enough to settle the players around him down. Sometimes it just takes that one calming presence, and I think with this young line, he's probably that guy.
Elliott Atkinson says:
I wonder if the Seahawks consider giving Rees Odhiambo the start at RT next week, both Sowell and Gilliam looked terrible. I don't see how he could play any worse, I mean he looked decent filling in for Fant at LT last week.
It's going to be really cool to see Rob's mock draft tomorrow.
After day, and the gloom and doom that's likely to hang over the heads of 12s, it's awfully hard to argue against going offense early and often. For my $, I want to see another dynamic play maker added. Someone to genuinely give defensive coordinators fits and will open things up for the other playmakers on the offense. OL, and RB are likely needs, probably not to be ignored. I like them to add SAM, DL, and LOB help, but really, under PC, the defense is going to be fine. They were the only reason Seattle was in this game they way they were, and that's minus Earl Thomas III, Shead, and Michael Bennett.
29: R1P29
WR CURTIS SAMUEL
OT CHAD WHEELER
RB ELIJAH HOOD
135: R4P32
EDGE HAASON REDDICK
CB BRENDAN LANGLEY
TE GERALD EVERETT
226: R7P8
DL JOSH TUPOU
Samuels add the Percy Harvin threat and receiver and running back, Wheeler a starter probably at RT, Hood a back that fits their athletic profile, Reddick to play SAM and work as a rusher, Langley to develop as another corner, Everett to be looked at as a TE/H-Back, and Tupou to add depth at DT.
They definetly need another to get RW one more target.
I keep seeing 'Kenny Stills would be a great addition in FA.' Not sure about that one myself.
I just don't see Seattle being big spenders in FA anymore with all the big contracts on the team, and Stills doesn't seem better than what they already have. I think they will bargain shop for DL and OL and use the draft pretty much year in year out for now.
If there's ever a time to spend on an outside FA, this would be the year to do it.
I think that we had a fair game plan going in, but our OL was just outmanned at the line of scrimmage, therefore not leaving Rawls a lot of room to run, and for Wilson not a lot of time to throw and the receiving corps not enough time to get open. We took negative yardage on a lot of plays which kind of eliminates the short/quick throw game to be a viable option for making down conversions… the defense made amazing adjustments and held up their end of the bargain. I think Cable is doing his best with what he has… a rookie undersized center, a five star recruit (?) basketball player, free agent turnstile RT. OL functions as a unit, and even if you have a couple positives in the line, it only takes 1 missed assignment for a play to get blown. Ugly loss? Yeah. Still good learning experience for the O in general? Also yes! Time for payback against Cam Newton and CAR >:)
I keep hearing that Cable is doing the best with what he has. And I read above that Rob says Cable's input is likely limited to JS giving him a list of names and Cable saying which guys he likes best. If true, maybe Cable needs to have MORE input. He should (metaphorically) wipe his arse with the list and hand it back to JS, asking for a different list.
Because there's a 4th-round tackle in Terry Poole and a 3rd-round tackle in Rees Odhiambo that were hand-selected by somebody on the Seahawks, and they aren't doing jack to help this team. If we got guys that would be decent instead, Cable wouldn't be relying on a basketball player and a free agent turnstile RT.
As to the gameplan going in, see my post above. Maybe we would look less hapless if our game plan specifically assumed that our OL will be outmanned at the LOS. Today it was good gameplan, found out our OL was garbage, so throw out gameplan. If a coach knows his QB sucks, his gameplan is mostly handing off to the RB. He doesn't plan with the hope that his QB might not suck. Our OL is not good. Plan for the game that way. Do something to slow down the rush or make it less effective.
STTBM says:
To play devils advocate, a conservative gameplan based on expecting the line to suck is what doomed us in New Orleans and lost the game. Had they opened the offense up we would have hammered them.
We had too many late developing plays called and Bevell didnt go with what was working often enough to sustain drives. Carrol pretty much said as much. To me that points more to a lack of adaptability and a stubborn insistence on sticking with a gameplan that is failing than it is needing to be more conservative.
If the line is getting their ass kicked, you have to be able to go to quicker throws and the read-option, and Bevell didnt do that. But you cant just put in a gameplan to avoid all deeper throws or you risk another NO game.
Finding balance and making quick adjustments are whats needed.
503Hawk says:
Just got back into town… Sounds like I made a good decision to set the DVR and spend time w/ friends and family instead of watching the game.
We all knew going into this season there would be some big holes to fill, a lot of young guys needing to step up, and an attitude adjustment (reestablishing who the bully is).
If we go 3-2 in our last five and finish 10-5-1, that's exactly where I thought we would be (10-6 or 11-5 I predicted). This team is up and down. Good games where we think they've turned the corner and pathetic games where it's doom & gloom, fire everybody and kick the dog while we are at it.
This team is in good hands (better than any of us calling the shots), and less we forget, this is the NFL. Pretty dog gone tough to dominate year in and year out, especially when so many teams looked to what PC & JS built, modeled their programs after, and then punched the bully in the nose and screamed in our face; "pay back is a b___h!"
Keep building w/ impact play makers, stoke the fires, dominate the division. We will be alright. Enjoy the ride. It could be worse… (Cleveland, LA, etc)
OL play was the key. Now I think Britt will be extended or locked up as center for the foreseeable future. He is that key to the OL performing adequately. Who would have thought this would be the case week #1 of the season….
The OT/OG hand off of blocks looked messed up multiple time. The Bucs ran an inside (DT) out side (DE) stunt multiple time…. with a slight delay of the outside rusher, then coming inside across the OG face. Seattle players were late or didn't recognize it multiple times. If I can see it, being "dude on the couch", then I'm sure the coaching staff could see it.
The good news, there are 3-4 guys who will be back next week that are all front line starters. The Panthers hung up over 30 on the Raiders, but the Raiders D has not been any great shakes this whole season. If Bennett is playing in the game, Seattle wins.
Anyone else think Tyler Lockett played terribly?
Sweet, emotional victory for Tampa
He's not a hands catcher. Just not his game. He'll make his fair share of clean grabs, but he's gotta trap it against his body.
Volume, I utterly disagree. Lockett is fantastic at high pointing the ball and holding on in traffic. He's far better at that than Richardson, which is a major reason that with all his speed, PRich has averaged something like 9 yards per reception. Lockett has fantastic hands, and was known for that coming out of college.
He had a bad game, and hasnt done much since spraining his knee vs the Rams, but his hands are not a concern to me.
Is there a safety in the NFL more valuable to his team's success than Earl Thomas?
Nope. Except for maybe Bam Bam who is having a fantastic year.
The defense actually played much better than I thought they would w/o ET. And Terrell, except for 1-2 plays on that 1st drive, is actually better than I thought he was.
BTW, Neiko Thorpe looks like another great find at CB.
I agree completely about Thorpe Vol and he is one of the best gunners in the league as well.
line_hawk says:
Miami, Rams, Arizona, Bucs : Its a pattern that started last year including both the playoff games. This is a boom or bust offense; dynamic one week, stinking the next. In fact, this is the first time in RW era that they have stunk a game in late November. Usually, by this time, they find their magic.
I agree playing rookies on the offensive line is part of the problem. But, its no guarantee that rooks will develop. Look at how Gilliam is worse now than he was last year. Why should I trust that Glowinski, Fant and Ifedi will improve? Britt is playing better but he has a small sample set so far. In seven years of drafting Oline by Seattle, we have zero all pro and only one pro bowl (2012 okung). I am not trying to be negative but waiting for something that has never happened is just dreaming?
So, what is the solution? I don't know. It seems that the book on Seattle's offense is written. Overwhelm the line and man-cover the receivers and RW cannot do anything. They need to change something fundamentally different but they need the offseason for that. Our personnel is not meant to run PC's grind it out offense.
For now, hoping for the #2 seed so that the only team they face on the road is Cowboys (not a great pass rush) should be sufficient. I don't feel too confident of playing Atlanta's defensive line on the road.
It's why I don't want to see Ifedi switched to RT like a lot of people want. If he's showing promise at RG, which he is, just leave him there and consider it locked down. This ongoing revolving "need to find someone competent" at every line position year after year is just old. If we had to deal with only one line position per offseason, that would be such a nice thing for once.
And besides, in another season, we'll have to start turning our attention back to the defense again.
Looking on the bright side, we somehow managed to keep our streak alive of not losing by more than 10.
KyleT says:
Here's the problem wrapped up in why we have been successful to this point and why there is no easy fix:
1. Coaching philosophy – With Pete it starts with expecting good things to happen when you show up, always compete, demonstrating the right attitude, passion, etc.
2. Drafting philosophy – The Seahawks don't try to play small ball (baseball reference) in the draft. They look for home runs. If you look at their philosophy in rounds 1-7, nowhere do they just look for somebody to a fill a spot because they are a good technician with limited athletic abilities. They look for diamond in the rough home runs. They will miss constantly, but over time their hits will result in greatness, not mediocrity.
3. OL play in college is down massively due to the trend of elite athletes playing defense and shift in offense to spread systems.
These 3 issues result in a situation where we are swinging for the fences (drafting philosophy) on pitches in the dirt (state of the OL in college) and expecting our philosophy (Pete!) which is our identity to eventually result in home runs. Yes, this may happen eventually and come together. But this explains our frustration with the results and why it's not as simple as blame Bevell or blame Cable or whatever.
It's also ridiculous to explain this as "everyone else struggles to put together an OL". Very few teams, much less teams as great as the Seahawks are struggling as much as we are in this area. It is truly a situation where an OL full of JAG's with good technique would likely out-produce what we have right now. If you watch other teams/other games, nowhere is it as ugly as what we have going on.
We will never go with the JAG route in the PCJS era, so we might as well get on-board and keep hoping we hit that home run here soon as the PCJS/RW legacy depends on it. All other aspects of this team are dynastic in quality.
BTW, this also addresses why we have let most of our past OL go in FA. We don't sign mediocre players, which is what Sweezy, Carp and Okung all were. We try to sign people who are top 5 at their position. Again the HR hitting philosophy.
Unfortunately, there is no quick answers to the oline. We're stuck with what we have. I'm all for this group growing together, as the sample size is ridiculously small.
I guess we'll see next week whether Justin Britt's absence was the primary cause. If he plays, and they play like they did against NE, great, we know it's communication. If they fall apart again, don't know what to think. Yesterday looked like back to game 3, back to the drawing board. Horrifying line play. Early playoff exit line play.
Britt's absence makes it hard to tell if this is interfering with what we would hope is a linear growth in this line. Next week might give us clues on our expectations for how this season should turn out.
As it is, I'm not expecting much from the running game. I don't think it will magically turn into top 5, Marshawn Lynch era running. I think it will end up bottom 5 regardless of how the line comes together.
But virtually every team is struggling to put together a competent OL. Nobody watching the Seahawks last week vs Philly or the week before vs New England would've said 'wow the Seahawks are really bad up front'. I guarantee you that what happened on Sunday in Tampa Bay happens more often you assert — and it's certainly not ridiculous to suggest this is a problem the majority of the NFL is facing.
But that's not really my point. All teams are struggling, but that doesn't explain why we are amongst the worst at OL play by just about any statistical measure you choose on a team which could dominate the NFL at almost every other position group.
My point is that we have approached it differently and the results ARE worse for the same reasons we dominate in the other position groups. And we won't adjust or change that philosophy. So we better just hope it comes together.
It also means that we shouldn't just think the off-season/draft will fix it. I would not be shocked if we didn't pick OL until round 3 next year.
Let's have some perspective here. The Seahawks have been excellent in run offense for years but are having a down year in 2016. Their pass pro ranking on Football Outsiders before the weekend was #16 in the league. Sunday was bad but that's not a total shock fielding three rookies and losing Britt. This idea that the Seahawks are somehow a lot worse than everyone else just isn't true.
But it was clear NE had no pass rush at all, nor was even really trying to put pressure on Wilson. And you could say Philly just had a bad day. Spence tore us up more than any team he's played all year, same with McCoy.
It could well be that Seattle's performance vs NE was due to zero pass rush and the success vs Philly was an aberration. Everyone is hoping the TB game was just a blip, not an indicator of whats to come for the O-line, but its entirely possible this game will not be an outlier.
If we're going to argue Philly 'just had a bad day' we could just as easily argue what Tampa Bay did was just down to a 'bad day' for the Seahawks (starting three rookies).
That was the point I was trying to make, Rob. I probably could have done a better job making that clear. Both could be just an off day, or they could be both a harbinger of future problems. Or one of each…
I think the line will improve immediately with Britt at C, but it is entirely possible Seattle's "resurgence" was not nearly as successful as we all thought, given as stated earlier that NE had no rush at all, Buffalo isnt great, and Philly may have just had an off day.
We wont know for a couple weeks yet, but an improving Carolina may give us a better barometer of where we're at. More data, more grist for the mill…
Vista says:
I just read that Kearse has been called for 5 pass interference penalties this year. Which is the most for a single player and more than all but 2 teams
I saw that. Pretty ridiculous. Why wasn't there a PI on that deep shot to P-Rich where the DB jumps through his back? They called a PI on the exact same situation with Baldwin. Its this inconsistency from the refs that's hurting the product of professional football. CFB has been much, much better this year.
I also could not agree more with what PC said today: "Wish we would have stuck with the run game instead of trying to solve the pass."
I'm OK with them trying to get the pass game going, but the way they approached it in the 2nd half seemed odd. They still called several long-developing pass plays with RW's back to the defense. When he turned to make a read, he had a DL in his lap. Not many short, rhythm and tempo type passes.
KC executed that incredibly well last night. The Denver DL was eating Alex Smith alive in the first half. Second half, they came out and had several nice 3 step drop plays and moved 5-8 yards a pop down the field. Keeping Alex Smith clean and moving the ball.
GoHawks5151 says:
Yuck. You guys pretty much said it all. Allow me to turn the focus back to scouting for the draft! I know most of you had your eyes on the Apple cup, but down here in Oregon we had quite a competitive Civil War (In which the good guys won). As a OSU Alum there are a couple kids that look pretty Seahawky. The most by far is CB Treston Decoud. 6'3″ 208 with a lanky build that many compare to Sherman (including saturdays broadcasters). Was the #1 corner all year and largely tasked with covering the #1 receiver every game. Held Cal WR Hansen to less than 40 yards in their game. Tough, handsy and strong at the point. Plenty of potential to work with in Seattle. Also, Safety Devin Chappell. 6'2″ 203, rangy and sure tackler. A little hit and miss this year due to injury but again, many good traits. Lastly, WR Victor Bolden. 5'9″ 183. Seen down here as the next Markus Wheaton/Brandin Cooks he fell a bit short of those expectations but has great special teams value was effective as a fly sweep runner. As a receiver he is quick in and out of routes and is able to get deep but will also drop some balls. A little hard to evaluate as QB has been an issue the past 2 years after a coaching change but was a 1000 yard receiver as a sophmore.
OSU kind of reminds me of a Colorado last year. They're on the right path, have a fair coach, and are a couple recruitment classes away from really contending in the rest of the PAC-12.
I'm an official supporter of Lavon Coleman getting drafted by Seattle.! After meeting starting RG Andrew Kirkland at the bar this weekend after the Apple Cup, he told me that Coleman is the third strongest guy on the team, and that everybody on the team has noticed a real dedication to hitting the hole and running with aggression instead of trying to dance for the chance at the big run.
DeCoud's big weakness is his technique. Has to clean that up.
I like everything about him, but that.
True. Was a JC transfer and only got a year and a half of time to learn after a nasty concussion last year. Just came up today that he will play in the East West Shrine game. Hope he ends up in Seattle
vrtkolman says:
I'm a huge Ryan Nall fan. The guy is a truck and has some speed with open field agility. I have no idea what his combine would be, but I just love his running style.
Me too. Would love to see how he tests. Always has little injuries though. It would be great to see him put together a full, healthy year next season.
Michael (CLT) says:
Seattle lost 2 of there last 4 games in 2013. Stuff happens. Blow out the Panthers and all is well. I get the reaction, but this is one game. Get up, brush yourself off, and look forward.
Go Spurs!
The Panthers are back. There's no way Seattle blows them out.
LantermanC says:
Question if anyone follows other rookies, but Spriggs was someone who fit Cable's criteria of TEF but someone it seemed didn't have the mentality he wanted. Does anyone know how he's doing?
CHawk Talker Eric says:
I just finished reading all the comments about this game and I see a prominent theme running through them that I would like to counter. But first I want to stress that I'm not trying to single out any particular commentator, or trying to say anyone's opinion is wrong. That's the thing about opinions: each one is as valid as any other, and a respectful, open dialogue is what makes SDB the tremendous community that it is.
The prominent theme I read above is that Britt's absence really hurt SEA vs TBB. Or put another way, Hunt crippled SEA's OL play because he's inexperienced and doesn't know the line calls. I disagree. The poor OL play wasn't so much the product of improper line calls, but rather just all around poor individual performances (with the possible exception of Glow who played the best of the group). I'm not saying Britt wouldn't have made ANY difference. But even if SEA had the best Center on the planet playing for them in this game making perfect line calls and perfect blocks (and we all know that wouldn't be Britt), it would not have helped George Fant keep up with Noah Spence on the edge. Fant was simply outmatched by Spence's quickness.
Many of us will remember that Spence was the topic of frequent discussions on the Blog last season. Some of us questioned his character and off field red flags, others wondered if his tremendous collegiate production was due to the relative lack of elite competition in the FCS and Ohio Valley conference. But then he lit up the Senior Bowl, where he was quite literally unstoppable, and he showed well at the Combine where he posted some pretty gaudy explosion numbers (121″ BJ, 35″ VJ and 4.80/1.61 40yd/10yd). Ultimately, TBB picking Spence in R2 was very similar to SEA's pick of Frank Clark in 2015 – a (late) R1 talent at a R2 price.
Speaking of Fant vs Spence, in the same way that there isn't a Center alive who would've been able to help Fant vs Spence, there really aren't any LTs in the League with the pure athleticism to match Spence's speed off the edge. Success by any LT in this situation would be a combination of athleticism, length, and most importantly, skill and technique – both of which come only through experience. How could Fant possibly have that experience in only his 5th NFL start, only his 5th start at LT, heck only his 5th start in the game of football at ANY level? That's just not a reasonable expectation. The only way SEA could've countered this mismatch was to give Fant help from a TE or RB, which they did on a few snaps. Unfortunately, double teaming Spence meant SEA was essentially a man down everywhere else on the field and it hurt them. So it was a bit of 'pick your poison.' As a side bar, it was an interesting (if not quite fair) matchup of former intrastate collegiate rivals from WKU and EKU. I'd like to see it again next year, after Fant has a season of experience under his belt.
Perhaps to a lesser extent, Britt similarly would not have made Ifedi much more effective vs Gerald McCoy. McCoy is one of the top interior DLers in the NFL. He was the third overall pick in 2010 and has 6 seasons of experience. Ifedi may have the athleticism to be effective vs a player like McCoy (at least I think he does), but he's a raw rookie going against one of the savviest DTs in the prime of his pro-bowl/all-pro career. It's possible Britt may have helped Ifedi contain McCoy on some snaps, but I saw McCoy beat Ifedi on as many inside-out (and bull rush) moves as he did on outside-in ones. In either case, McCoy brilliantly set up the inexperienced Ifedi repeatedly to get Ifedi to overcommit one way, then move past him easily the other way.
And with respect to Sowell…well, he just looked lost, which isn't entirely unexpected given it was his first play at RT this season. I have a hard time imagining that any Center would've made him perform any better. Ultimately, I think Britt's absence made an already weak OL group even weaker, but he wouldn't have made enough of a difference to change the outcome of the game.
The other factor in the overall poor offensive performance was RW. With his legs finally back underneath him, it seemed as if he regressed to his younger, less experienced self, relying more on his ability to scramble and improvise on the move than on his much improved pocket presence. To be fair, he didn't have a lot of time in this game. But it's not like he hasn't faced fierce pressure in other games this season, and when he was much less mobile than yesterday. I sincerely hope he puts it all together the way he was able to toward the end of last season – confidence in the pocket, with the ability to improvise and extend plays on the move.
And finally, on the defensive side, I thought yesterday was a dramatic demonstration of how important Michael Bennett is to this team. For me, his absence was much more impactive than the combined absence of ET and Shead. For the most part, SEA's secondary kept TBB's WRs in check. Sure, Evans had some nice receptions. But firstly, he's clearly one of the elite WRs in the League. And second, most of his catches came from his ability to find the soft spots in SEA's zone coverage (no doubt the result of his experience in the scramble drill with Manziel at TAMU). He did have that one really nice TD catch 1on1 vs Sherm, but he clearly pushed the limits of what the officials were going to allow by way of OPI – V12 noted during the game how one ref was on the sidelines obviously telling Evans that he wasn't going to get away with that again. To my eye, what really hurt SEA defensively was their inability to put consistent pressure on Winston. Clark had a couple of moments, as did Avril. But for the most part, Winston had ample time in the pocket, and TBB's WRs had ample time downfield to find the holes in SEA's coverage, resulting in crucial completions, particularly on third downs. SEA had a very tough time getting off the field on third downs and their inability to pressure Winston really hurt them in those situations.
One other theme I read above that I meant to highlight – the theme that there's something fundamentally wrong with SEA's coaches (Cable/Bevell) or their draft philosophy with respect to the OL. Again, I disagree. I'll use DAL as an example to highlight my perspective. DAL's philosophy to building their team along the LOS is essentially the opposite side of the same coin to SEA. SEA emphasizes superior DL performance – stifling run defense combined with relentless pass rush – to keep them in games, and adequate (even if just barely) OL play to give them an opportunity to win on offense. DAL uses pretty much the opposite strategy: superior OL performance – sound pocket protection and punishing run blocking – to keep them in games, with just enough DL play to give them the opportunity to outlast their opponent. So far this season, and at first glance, DAL seems to have the better approach. But it's never as simple as that. There are a multitude of factors that affect the success or failure of a team's philosophy, including most importantly, injuries and strength of schedule/individual match ups. So far, the only teams DAL have faced that are ranked in the top 10 DVOA (thru Week 11) are PHI (#2), WAS (#7) and PIT (#10), and their average margin of victory in those games is just under 7 pts. In comparison, SEA have faced PHI, NEP (#3), ATL (#5), MIA (#6) and BUF (#9), with an average margin of victory of just under 6 pts. That's about as close as you can get.
bankhawk says:
Great stuff Eric!
Great Post Eric.
Your thoughts on Britt are pretty much dead on. One man cannot solve the multiple issues the line had.
I'm still thinking about Seahawks zone defense, it seems like there are always soft spots in the zone and lack of coverage on swing passes to the sidelines.
I loved your comparison to Dallas. I hope there is a little more of those comparisons in the future. Having a future hall of fame QB and running back helps too. Yes I'm calling it now – unless injuries derail them Prescott and Eliot will both be in the hall of fame.
You may be right, Eric. But I would counter that even IF the line calls were ok and Hunt played ok one on one, the results show that the line just wasnt even close to as effective as they are with Britt. And I'd be willing to bet that Hunts inexperience led to quite a few plays where he blocked the wrong guy or no one, or wasnt able to anticipate a bluff etc, which led to confusion and a lesser performance as a whole.
I think we win that game with Patrick Lewis at C, but no way in hell with Hunt. Its a shame we couldnt hold onto Lewis as backup and Hunt. Remember how much different the line got within a week of Lewis' taking the job last year? The individual performances werent that much better across the line, but overall they got the job done. That wasnt the case yesterday, and it wasnt just Spence and McCoy getting through, it was a jailbreak.
This line isnt good, but without Britt, for whatever reason, they arent even functional.
For what its worth, I thought losing Britt was the difference in the game, far more than losing ET. The D held TB to 14, all the offense had to do was score ten points in the second half to win, and they couldnt even manage that. They didnt even manage to score a single TD. They outscored their own D by only one point!
I saw Hunt blocking no one on many plays in pass pro yesterday, which means they overloaded a side and Hunt didnt anticipate it with his line calls. And predictably, when your C is blocking no one, someone got through to pressure Wilson.
Seattle has spent nearly identically to Dallas in terms of the Draft along the O-line. You can make the case Seattle has outspent them in resources over the last 5-7 years. It isnt that Seattle is unwilling to invest in the line, its that they have bombed in talent evaluation, and they werent willing to overpay to keep guys. Not only that, good players like Okung and Unger were let loose because their bodies couldnt hold up to Cable's system.
Carpenter was not a good player in Cable's system, but he's pretty good in NY. Giacomini never was worth what they Jets are paying him and his best days are over. Sweezy was still far too inconsistent in the run game and not good enough in pass pro to justify anywhere near what TB signed him for, and he's never played for them with a serious back injury.
Perhaps its time to entertain the thought that Cable's way of doing things no longer works in the NFL. If he cant find guys who can run it properly and effectively on a consistent basis, given the resources he's had, then I believe we need to move on and find a line coach who CAN be successful with the players available. If you cant get the guys to make a system work, then you need to change your system or get a new one.
"It isnt that Seattle is unwilling to invest in the line, its that they have bombed in talent evaluation"
It's also worth noting that Dallas had the luxury of spending two top-16 picks on their O-line, in years when the talent really stood out. I suspect the Seahawks, given the chance, would've happily drafted Tyron Smith for example (heck, Pete recruited him!) and Zack Martin was about as safe a pick as you'll ever find. A textbook player.
Look at the alternatives the year Seattle drafted Okung, Carpenter and Ifedi in R1. It's not like they passed on players of Smith or Martin's level.
True, Rob. And they reportedly wanted Trent Williams but the Skins took him so Seattle was left with Okung.
The interesting thing about Martin was everyone was saying he was reach where Dallas took him–until after his second season when they all shut their yaps lol!
My thing is that if Cable's system destroys good players–Okung and Unger–and isnt successful for multiple years (2014-2016) with a multitude of players, then perhaps the system is to blame and needs to change? Any system that wont work with its parts will fail. Perhaps its time to adjust the system to fit the guys you have–maximize their strengths while minimizing their weaknesses rather than trying to force the players to fit a system.
Well put, Rob.
The best thing I can say about this debacle of a game by Seattle was that it humbled them, and they seemed to need that. Too many times Ive heard guys like ET, Sherm, and Baldwin act like a bad game was no big deal, as if their past performance would dictate future success. It doesnt work like that in the NFL; you have to show up every week with a chip on your shoulder and a fire in your heart, or you will lose–to anyone.
Perhaps this game will light a fire under everyone's ass in Seattle–it should. Not one coach did a good job, from Carrol to Bevell to Cable to Kris Richard. They showed up uninspired as players and with an uninspiring gameplan of plays they've run endlessly before–and it showed. Once again, a team that did their homework on Seattle showed up ready to go toe to toe and whupped them all over the place.
Now, this is utter speculation on my part, but from Carrols behavior and comments yesterday to the media (rather abruptly and rudely ending questions regarding the O-line, etc), I think he's really unhappy with Tom Cable and Darrel Bevell. He came out and said they didnt adjust on offense the way they needed to, they didnt adapt quickly enough, they needed to have run more read-option plays, etc. That is pretty much the harshest Ive ever heard him be with the Media and in comments regarding his offense. And I say, Bravo! No more talk of growth, of potential, lets call it what it is: a bad gameplan, lack of adjustment and imagination and balls by Bevell and a total farce showing from Cable's offensive line.
Bevell does this every year; costs us at least two games with a stale gameplan and lack of in-game adjustments, and keeps several games close that should be blowouts by being too conservative. His Red Zone offense is never particularly good at scoring TD's either. But thats not to say he isnt good at his job–he wins far more than he loses, and a handful of games every year he looks like a Genius and an adjustment-wizard. He just needs to learn to loosen the reins sooner (Saints game) and also to know when to scrap a gameplan and adapt on the fly to what IS working (stop trying to throw deep and go to quick passes and read-option plays vs TB).
Cable has fielded a good line just one half of one season in his entire tenure here (second half of 2013). He's had a draft pick investment among the richest in the league, yet his line ranks in the bottom 20% in both run blocking and pass pro any way you slice it. He and Carrol believed he could teach these guys how to play good enough not to get Wilson destroyed, and two years in a row that isnt the case. I dont have all the answers, but at some point, as a coach, you are what the performance of your line says you are after 5+ years.
I agree with Rob, they have to take the best O-lineman they can get who is tough in the first two rounds, and they better draft at least two guys next year. The tackle situation is desperate, and Glowinsky is struggling and Ifedi isnt playing up to expectations.
For comparison look what TB's makeshift line, missing three supposed starters from preseason, did to our D-line.
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