Commissions $$$ for level packs
Warfare Incorporated Forum Index -> Mission Authoring
knelson
Established Forum User
Location: Hobart, IN
Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 5:31 pm Post subject: Commissions $$$ for level packs
It's obvious that building levels and creating mission packs is not cut out for everyone by the number of successful level packs posted.
A lot of creativity, coding, debugging etc... goes into creating a mission. I think compensation would be a great incentive to encourage others to join in.
Ok, now let me ask the question that I know must be on the back of everyone's mind. Will we be able to sell our mission packs?
I envision something similar to the original game. The first level free but to continue the mission you have to purchase the mission pack.
Palm Tungsten|E
crakerz
Mega-Poster
Location: California Bay Area
Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:19 pm Post subject:
Now that's a can of worms! How will spifcode and Handmark get compensated? I mean, it's their software, their editor, and their website.
As for incentive, I think the same incentive that has worked for so many other freeware levels applys here: no fortune, just fame
But then, what the heck do I know?
I was thinking that Handmark & Spiffcode could sell the item on their site and handle the payments. We would be affiliate members and earn commissions. For example you as an affiliate would earn 40% commission an all sales.
So let's say if you sold a mission pack for $10. You as the affiliate would earned $4.00 and Handmark would get $6.00 for every mission pack you sold.
I was just wondering because I know some extra cash would be a great incentive for me to design a complete mission pack. Either way I think Handmark & Spiffcode will have to let us know what rights we do have.
scottlu
WI Founder
When you run the mission editor for the first time, it brings up a Eula ("End user license agreement"). If you're not like me and you actually read those things then you saw where it mentions the licensing terms regarding authored missions. (If you want to read it again you can close M, go to the directory M is in and delete m.ini, then restart M - I will put a more graceful way to see the license agreement as a menu item).
In a nutshell, authored missions are "derivative works" and as such cannot be sold or distributed commercially. I can explain the reasoning behind this if anyone is interested. We're following the same model for user mission / level creation that was established in the PC market since the DOOM days by Id Software. Creating a mission is for fun (and some glory), not profit.
Truthfully though I had not considered what you mention knelson, that Handmark distributes for a percentage. There are some issues with this. I've assumed it is of greater value to allow the mission author to have ownership of the authored mission (within the non-commercial license requirements). I also believe that it is of greater value to the players out there to have missions that are available for free. This made for free / played for free model has worked well in the PC games industry.
I am very happy with the new missions we have so far. There are around 8 new missions currently in 5 mission packs, which is huge considering the game shipped with 20 missions. And I expect we'll see even more over time after the editor becomes public next week.
I'm happy to answer any questions.
Warfare Incorporated Development Team
Scott, originally I did briefly looked at the EULA. However, I still would like more information on the reasoning behind the decision.
I may be wrong, but I believe that the quality of the mission packs would be greatly increased by providing compensation.
I personally would not have a problem paying $5 or $10 for a new mission pack.
I love the game and think that it would be in the best interest of the game, creators and Handmark to compensate mission creators.
The majority of people are not even going to try to create their own mission. They will just look for new missions to download.
I believe that the people who really put in the time and effort to create a successful mission pack will get bored after a while and eventually lose interest in the glory.
Compensation is a great motivator, especially if you have built a name for yourself.
I don't know if the initial decision is set in stone, but I would like to hear some feedback from members and the mission level creators.
Keith, what is set in stone is free download of the editor, free creation of missions, and the ability to share those for free (only for free, and with no commercial distribution).
What isn't set in stone is other arrangements like what you mention (which would have to go through Spiffcode and/or Handmark). It's a new concept for us so we need to think about the implications and get back to you. I will begin the discussion internally.
PhillipEarl
knelson wrote:
I, for one, couldn't disagree more. In the first place, this is a handheld game, not a desktop game. Bearing that in mind, many people (myself most assuredly NOT included) complained long and loudly about the price being too high. It's almost certain that none of these people will buy user-created missions, to say nothing of any who thought the price high, but justified. You'd really have to win most people over, especially considering that while five dollars in and of itself is not that steep, there are twenty missions in the core game; no matter how good you are at designing missions, the preconception among the vast majority of players is that the core missions (being professionally designed by the game's developers) would be superior to those created by other players. Therefore, at a perceived worth of at least five dollars per mission, the game should have at least cost one hundred dollars. Since this is a handheld game, and more than a few have complained about the price, you can be sure that they wouldn't suddenly feel that they've gotten an unusually good bargain on the game. In other words, a user-created mission with a five dollar plus price tag would only be seen as overpriced.
Look back through the forums and count how many times this game has been compared to Warcraft, Starcraft, etc. Now ask yourself how many of these desktop games charge for user created levels. None, so far as I know. As long as people insist on comparing this game to those games, and as long as those games offer user-created maps for free, don't look for your idea to go over very well in the handheld community of buyers.
The notion of shareware levels is not new, either. There are handheld games out there that charge per the level. Master Thief immediately comes to mind, and it offers the first level for free, while Handmark charges just under thirty dollars for its core missions. Does it work for Master Thief to charge per mission? I could be wrong, but the last time I checked it wasn't exactly burning up the market.
Your theory that paid levels would inspire a higher quality doesn't hold water, either. There are literally thousands of shareware games out there right now whose makers rightly felt that they were entitled some compensation for their titles. Some of them are quite good. The vast majority of them aren't worth spit. The shareware market is huge mainly because users weed through the crap and buy the good titles. They all to frequently judge a game by its screen shots before they even download a demo. Why is this important? All the screenshots of WI levels, if they existed at all, would appear to be of the same quality, to say nothing of the problems associated with creating demos for each mission or mission pack.
Lastly, and certainly most damaging to your proposal, is the fact that users will still be able to create and distribute missions for free. Even if interest in creating free missions wanes, it will be enough to kill the paid mission market, as almost NO ONE will pay for a level when they can get what would certainly appear to be its equivalent for free! By the time interest in making free missions for glory waned, those making missions for monetary compensation would have made so little that they too would have lost interest.
All this being said, if you want to pursue some sort of paid incentive for creating missions, knock yourself out. I'm just giving a few reasons why it won't work. After all, Handmark originally justified the price of its game by saying that it had endless replayability, and while that wasn't necessarily a guarantee that the replayability would be free, it was most certainly implied, whether intentionally or not. Charge for additional levels, and you'll quickly find those levels are routinely snubbed in favor of the free ones.
Just an opinion.
Well said, PhillipEarl! I agree wholeheartedly. I've been watching the gaming world for (too many) years, and I have seen exactly what you are talking about. I can't think of too many people that would pay for what they can get for free. I also know that with the fairly small group of beta testers we have seen a good number of decent levels. When it goes public, I expect it to explode. Yeah, some will be crap, and some will be great, and I'll probably play most of 'em. For free.
(Another worm in the can is quality control, not to mention support. )
I suppose someone could post a link to Paypal, and beg for donations if their level pak was really good. I just don't think someone is going to pay for what they can get for free (I know, I keep saying that). As you mentioned, look at the tons of shareware/freeware stuff out there, just for the PDA.
(Wow, look at all the soap bubbles! )
WI Forum Novice
I can see both sides of it. I must admit i would have been annoyed back in the day if i had to pay for all the extra Doom WAD's created. On the other hand if you want to make some money out of it then its a difficult one to answer, do you also pay for all the Rom's you 'may' download or mp3's etc ?
People mention all the time and hard work to create these Warfare maps but how about music artists making songs, or game designers working days on end to create GBA games etc ? Difficult one
Saying that i've got a few ideas about maps for Warfare. Most of them pretty basic but i would love someone to design it for me using the editor and i could pay a small payment via paypal for it.
Some of the best maps i've played are ones with a huge enemy base protected very well and obviously i have to create a huge force to get into it. The one negative is when the computer runs out of ore and then i can just wait and pick him off one by one.
A huge map with a huge chunk of ore in each corner for the computer and me i would love to see etc.
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