Has anybody from this forum become man number 4 (or higher)?
Thread starter Hitsu
sitting said:
Highfive said:
This is why I responded to the OP (not "organic portal" but "original poster" :), and as a I said I will answer questions regarding this on this thread. But I will not limit myself to this forum and I have other "real life" activities to attend to also.
Hi Highfive,
Forgive my curiosity, but what do you do for a living?
Hehe, curiosity is good. I work in a regular 9-5 office job, I will leave it at that. I see working as a way to be of service to people I come into contact with and getting paid for it...
alkhemst said:
The day of the actual peak experience I was sitting alone in my cabin meditating and feeling very strong kundalini. The center of my brain (3rd eye or pineal gland) started to vibrate intensely, and I could actually move this vibrating ball wherever I wanted up and down the spine. I remember a candle light flicker was kind of annoying me, and immediately an "energy tentacle" (can't find a better way to describe it) moved out from the top of my head and touched the flame. The flame was totally still after that.
This weirdness went on for about 1 hour, and then I sort of came out of it a totally changed being.
Why after announcing your state on first introduction to people, it has to be qualified with another claim of telekinesis?
The quality of a man is best seen by one's fruits, is my opinion, not by his / her claims. Wouldn't you agree?
Edit: for clarity
I don't qualify anything. I simply explained how it happened.
Yes, I agree totally. I don't expect or need anyone to "believe me" or anything I say. I answer the questions and people will make up their own mind about it. Maybe someone will get something out of it, maybe not.
My intention is simply to point in a direction, and if that seems like an exciting way to go, at least the possibility of that is now known...
lilyalic
I'm just wondering whether irrational thoughts/ talking to yourself in your head EVER go away? or do they just become a backing track in your mind that are much easier to ignore and KNOW they're false and they're trying to move you from your aim? I suppose it links into the different numbers of man, i.e. man 1,2,3,4,5 - what about after a certain crystallization, or a transformation, do these thoughts get replaced with new ones? do they get replaced with more objective ones? the more you transform and grow, do the thoughts become less self-destroying, more objective?
I remember reading in a C transcript that Ark asked "do you still talk to yourself in your own head?" - so that made me think that really, Ark and others don't really have this "talking to oneself" - I asked my Counsellor, as we've been through and written down many irrational thoughts (Depicting whether they're true or false, ALL false) - and she stated that these thoughts never go away, but more so they become LESS listened/ reacted to. I still find that hard to believe, that the self-destructive thoughts (by that I mean just thoughts that disrupt your own life) always stay with you, when in reality we're meant to be growing and learning, gathering knowledge... Does the knowledge replace the faulty thinking? When you progress to "the next level" (Whatever manifestation that is) wouldn't you leave certain things (like faulty thoughts) behind?
axj
Lilyalic said:
It seems that the internal dialogue stays there for a pretty long time - I don't know if it ever goes away at some point. Though it does become much less self-destructive and less frantic. And yes, not being identified in the thoughts is a big one.
Esote
... I don't expect or need anyone to "believe me" or anything I say. I answer the questions and people will make up their own mind about it. Maybe someone will get something out of it, maybe not.
Actually I'm glad you are still here Highfive, because what you said after my previous joking post in this thread is very valuable for me so far !
My apologies, by the way :)
Quick question for Mods: the posting sequence in this thread seems to have been altered. Beginning around 60 and on-wards. I'm seeing posts (from Highfive) now inserted, that were clearly not there earlier this morning.
Is this possible--or am I just having my own computer problems?
Miss.K
I don't remember having read that transcript, but I was curious about it, as I have thought about thinking process lately, and how other people think (not what they think, but how)
I figure out things best through conversation, and so when I'm alone, often I have "thought conversations" to figure out what I think about whatever, -sometimes imagining what a person who knows more than me would say to a question I have, -of cause knowing that I'm the one making up the answer (but I do think that it can still inspire the part of myself that is closest to thinking like whoever I imagine), or if I'm presented with opposing views of an earlier understanding, I will have part of my thoughts play the role of someone holding the opposing view, both so I can understand where they are coming from, and to see if I can find where the mistake is in either mine or their view.
This is not the same as obsessing, or having self destructive thoughts, (I know what those are too)
Though sometimes my thoughts are a bit silly and tell each other jokes, or dwell on cool sentences they have heard somewhere, or sometimes talk just to talk (I like words, can't help it, working on it ) and should rather shut up and wash the dishes, I don't see it as a bad thing (it is funny to joke, and healthy to laugh)
Anyways I'm not sure I can think any other way, and had been wondering lately if it is the same for everybody, or if other people can think without talking to themselves?
You say you have heard negative things about Osho. When it comes to man 6/7 teachers, and especially such a public figure like Osho was, they are bound to be controversial. More than 10 000 people lived around Osho when he made that city in the US. People came and went. He could not control what all those people did. It was a crazy time with free sex etc etc...:)
Despite all the controversy Osho was a man 7 teacher. The man 7 teacher who helped me was actually Osho's bodyguard and he became enlightened because of Osho. If you read books/transcripts of Osho's speeches you will find that he is a great man of wisdom and enormous vocabulary.
I take it that this is the primary source for most--if not all--of the things you've claimed. Yes?
Oh ho! Osho! The originator of a whole stream of New Age sewage and salad-shooter metaphysics.
In mid-1981, Rajneesh relocated to the United States, where his followers established an intentional community (later known as Rajneeshpuram) near Antelope, Oregon south of The Dalles, Oregon. Almost immediately, the commune's leadership became embroiled in conflicts with local residents (primarily over land use), which were marked by hostility on both sides. The large number of Rolls-Royce cars purchased for Rajneesh's use by his followers also attracted criticism. The Oregon commune collapsed in 1985 when Rajneesh revealed that the commune leadership had committed a number of serious crimes, including a bioterror attack (food contamination) on the citizens of The Dalles.[2] He was arrested shortly afterwards, and charged with immigration violations. Rajneesh was deported from the United States in accordance with a plea bargain.[3][4][5] Twenty-one countries denied him entry, causing Rajneesh to travel the world before returning to Pune, where he died in 1990.
Definitely not even man number 4. More than likely, man number 3, moving center dominated with a high sex center charge. That's most likely what people feel in his presence. The activation of that energy is pretty much guaranteed to hinder any real personal development. Reminds me of the guy who was abducted by reptilians and claimed that their "wisdom emanation" was so "sensual."
So, sorry HighFive, your guru has been covered in much previous research and discussion. I know plenty of New Agey types who make the same claims you are making only they don't cast them in 4th Way terms as you have here as your "entree". But it's the same old stuff "Peak experiences" and "feel good-ism". It basically amounts to shutting out reality and living in a dream.
Allow me to suggest that you are in the and if you want to answer further questions, you can create your own website and do it there.
Since the software update, all new members posts are put in a moderating queue. The mods get to them as they have time. Once approved, the post falls into line according to actual posting time. So, in a fast moving thread, many other posts that do not go in the queue might appear before the queued ones are approved.
Got it. Thanks Laura.
Gurdjieff addresses the problem of the Osho types and their followers.
"All that has been said up till now refers to real groups connected with real concrete work which in its turn is connected with what has been called the 'fourth way.' But there are many imitation ways, imitation groups, and imitation work. These are not even 'black magic.'
"Questions have often been asked at these lectures as to what is 'black magic' and I have replied that there is neither red, green, nor yellow magic. There is mechanics, that is, what 'happens,' and there is 'doing.' 'Doing' is magic and 'doing' can be only of one kind. There cannot be two kinds of 'doing.' But there can be a falsification, an imitation of the outward appearance of 'doing,' which cannot give any objective results but which can deceive naive people and produce in them faith, infatuation, enthusiasm, and even fanaticism.
"This is why in true work, that is, in true 'doing,' the producing of infatuation in people is not allowed. What you call black magic is based on infatuation and on playing upon human weaknesses. Black magic does not in any way mean magic of evil. I have already said earlier that no one ever does anything for the sake of evil, in the interests of evil. Everyone always does everything in the interests of good as he understands it. In the same way it is quite wrong to assert that black magic must necessarily be egoistical, that in black magic a man strives after some results for himself. This is quite wrong. Black magic may be quite altruistic, may strive after the good of humanity or after the salvation of humanity from real or imaginary evils. But what can be called black magic has always one definite characteristic. This characteristic is the tendency to use people for some, even the best of aims, without their knowledge and understanding, either by producing in them faith and infatuation or by acting upon them through fear.
"But it must be remembered in this connection that a 'black magician,' whether good or evil, has at all events been at a school. He has learned something, has heard something, knows something. He is simply a 'half-educated man' who has either been turned out of a school or who has himself left a school having decided that he already knows enough, that he does not want to be in subordination any longer, and that he can work independently and even direct the work of others. All 'work' of this kind can produce only subjective results, that is to say, it can only increase deception and increase sleep instead of decreasing them. Nevertheless something can be learned from a 'black magician' although in the wrong way. He can sometimes by accident even tell the truth. That is why I say that there are many things worse than 'black magic.' Such are various 'occult' and theosophical societies and groups. Not only have their teachers never been at a school but they have never even met anyone who has been near a school. Their work simply consists in aping. But imitation work of this kind gives a great deal of self-satisfaction. One man feels himself to be a 'teacher,' others feel that they are 'pupils,' and everyone is satisfied. No realization of one's nothingness can be got here and if people affirm that they have it, it is all illusion and self-deception, if not plain deceit. On the contrary, instead of realizing their own nothingness the members of such circles acquire a realization of their own importance and a growth of false personality.
"At first it is very difficult to verify whether the work is right or wrong, whether the directions received are correct or incorrect. The theoretical part of the work may prove useful in this respect, because a man can judge more easily from this aspect of it. He knows what he knows and what he does not know. He knows what can be learned by ordinary means and what cannot. And if he learns something new, something that cannot be learned in the ordinary way from books and so on, this, to a certain extent, is a guarantee that the other, the practical side, may also be right. But this of course is far from being a full guarantee because here also mistakes are possible. All occult and spiritualistic societies and circles assert that they possess a new knowledge. And there are people who believe it.
Notice Osho's criminal activities and his abusive use of the trust of his followers to make himself wealthy and indulge his every whim so - one supposes - he can have an endless "peak experience" of one sort or another.
His "bodyguard" ????!!!!
Oh, puh-leeeeeeeeze.
This is like Eric Pepin/Higher Balance institute redux. Been there, done that. There's a long thread about it.
Mouravieff also describes a similar type of "bird" in his Mesoteric Cycle, Chapter XVI, section 5:
Another typical deformation of human Personality also exists. This case is rather rare in its extreme form but today as in the past weaker forms can be met in all eras and strata of society, especially in the Orient. Three or four hundred years ago this human type became widespread in the West: this was the sorcerer. A ferocious fight was waged against them.
The case we are to study is that of a man 1 whose highly developed motor centre entirely dominates his emotional centre. In this type of man the latter is awake and even quite developed, but it is under the sway of the motor centre and as a result it is richly nourished by usurped sexual energy. As in the fourth case, the intellectual centre is not entirely asleep: the negative part of this centre is paralysed but the positive part is completely under the domination of the motor centre. That is why this type of man feels no doubt. This fact provides him with extraordinary strength and endows his psyche with a suggestive, hypnotic dynamism.
This type of man 1 includes fakirs, sorcerers, magicians: volkhvy in Slavonic. Though unbalanced in its development, this Personality has lost all its anarchistic characteristics: it is subjected to an iron discipline exercised by the motor centre in the place of the magnetic centre, with the T of the body predominant. This kind of man can acquire certain powers, but their nature differs from that of the gifts of the Holy Spirit which interior men acquire.
A magician's power —that of a Cagliostro, Rasputin and their like —is based, as we said, on excessive development of the motor centre, which dominates the other two. The working of the intellectual centre is reduced to what is strictly necessary to ensure vital needs and to elaborate projects; its negative part is smothered, and this is what leads to the absence of doubt. The emotional centre is not only not smothered but is rather well developed. However, this development is unbalanced, as it is not the result of correct discernment of 'B' from 'A' influences, but of the accumulation of those of the latter whose action, although different in quality, works parallel to the 'B' influences, Lastly, an overgrowth on the psyche is formed on the right side of the emotional centre of this type of man 1, which shows all the characteristics of an impure or black magnetic centre. While the magnetic centre formed of'B' influences is a subsidiary organ enabling esoteric development, this black magnetic centre formed by 'A' influences can clearly not be oriented towards esoteric goals. Shaped by 'A' influences whose action runs parallel to the 'B' influences, the orientation of this black magnetic centre is automatically directed towards objectives limited to within the perimeter of exterior life. These objectives are well known; money, women, and power in all their forms.
This type of unbalanced development of Personality, which gives birth to the sorcerer in all its aspects, is shown below: FIG. 22
The reader will remember the diagram in chapter VI of the first volume (fig. 21), accompanied there by a brief explanation. Evidently the black magnetic centre, instead of sending man forward towards the second Birth and so towards the union of his Personality with his real I, emphasizes and crystallizes the I of the Personality and inspires it with the strength it needs to impose itself on other Personalities who are in an unstable inner state. It is important to know that this human type exists, especially for those who have an inclination for esoteric research and who begin by looking for the 'marvellous.' While awaiting an encounter with a guide, their Personality is wide open to the influences emanating from this type of man, and they may easily fall under his sway. Such a 'guide' may be represented by the diagram from the first volume we have just described. We reproduce it here because of its great importance (see below)
As Mouravieff mentions, I think the major problem with these types of black magicians, psychopaths, etc. is that manipulation and abuse of their sexual energy allows them to mimic and caricaturize the feeling and being of a more highly evolved person. The problem obviously is that it's not genuine or authentic spirituality -- that is to say, it is not rooted in true conscience of the higher emotional center, and cannot develop past the domain of matter (1-4D). The higher emotional and sex center have a similar intensity (hydrogen 12) but have distinct flavors (Si12 and Sol12), and in order to distinguish the two one needs to have a LOT of knowledge of "octaves." I say octaves in quotation marks because this is really shorthand for describing the cosmic system of micro- and macro-evolution and the role individuals play to adapt and contribute to creation. Conscience is an essential quality needed to elevate creatures out of their subjective reality and participate in the directed creative growth of the world around them; whereas, while sex has its role in the general law, its creative energies are strictly limited to secular life and the material realm. This is why, I believe, 4D STS beings (the spiritual successors/descendents of the black magicians) cannot evolve past 4D, where the material universe no longer exists.
obyvatel
Osho has been previously discussed here.
https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,16796.0.html
Too bad, it was starting to be "pleasing"! Which is another red flag related to New Age sewage, adding eventually some kind of sour sauce to Osho's salad-shooters