Slog Jul 25, 2013 9:45 AM
What He Said: Andrew Sullivan On Anthony Weiner
Repeat after me - it ain't the sexting; it's the lack of judgment, the impulsiveness, and the fact that he's already repented. He's been very Republican about this, and deserves all our scorn.
Your comments in general are spot on; but with Wiener, they are not. Let's wait for someone with the honesty to admit what he does and the courage to stand up for it.
Matt from Denver on July 25, 2013 at 9:52 AM · Report this
And I'm with Fnarf:
But the mayor of the largest city in the country shouldn't be ordinary. He should be better than that. I don't give a shit how durrrrty the pics are, I care about the terrible judgement he showed in tweeting them to some girl not his wife. It makes him look like a compulsive moron, not a sex pervert.
I don't care what pervy pics he's got on his hard drive. I do care that he can't figure out how to keep them out of the fucking news.
http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive…
TomJohnsonJr on July 25, 2013 at 9:53 AM · Report this
I think the problem isn't Weiner's antics of exhibitionism. I think the problem is how Weiner has handled these problems. He could had survived his time in Congress if he came clean from the beginning. His press conference on his latest smartphone exhibitionism, shows how calculating, and scheming he can be. He kind of blames the media for the problem, given it is bad timing they found out now, then if they did their homework and found out before he announced his candidacy.
Hamlet comes across sympathetic while calling his fiancee a whore and his future father in law a pimp and stabbing him behind the curtain. Delivery helps a long way in getting forgiveness.
ferret on July 25, 2013 at 9:54 AM · Report this
It used to be that any hint of prior drug use would destroy someone's ambitions for high office. Now our last three presidents have admitted to using marijuana, and the last two have admitted to using even stronger drugs.
I've maintained for several years now that the same will be true with nudie pix. The prevalence of digital photos and high-quality cameras in cell phones makes it practically inevitable that some sort of naked college hi-jinks photos will emerge for a presidential/VP candidate in the relatively near future. And I suspect voters won't care, especially if they're perceived as youthful indiscretions. (Whether the voters take Anthony Weiner's sexting in the same context remains to be seen.)
Kevin_BGFH on July 25, 2013 at 9:55 AM · Report this
he resigned because of the first revelations. then he didn't stop. that's pathological behavior. that's the issue.
but shit, it's not my city. i'll be amused if NYC elects him, and he'll probably do a great job.
Max Solomon on July 25, 2013 at 10:00 AM · Report this
Ok, but let's stop pretending Weiner and Abedin might have an "agreement." Their whole official story has been that they did not. They were the cover story of the NY Times Magazine recently, and a whole big part of it was how shocked she was when she found out, and how she's forgiven him.
Could all this be a lie? Yes, of course, but at this point I don't think we need the caveat. They're not being secretive about their marriage, so let's not write them a whole narrative that almost certainly isn't there.
Belle Starr on July 25, 2013 at 10:00 AM · Report this
If he were just sexting with willing participants, I'd agree with you, Dan. But his first sexting (god I hate that that is a word) scandal involved him randomly send a photo of his junk to someone who had signed on to follow his "official" twitter account. I don't see this as that different than him walking into a campaign event and opening his raincoat to flash one of his constituents. It's merely another example of (some) men sexualizing women without their participation or consent.
Luckier on July 25, 2013 at 10:03 AM · Report this
The guy wasn't sending pictures of himself (or parts thereof) to his girlfriend, he was compulsively emailing them out to random people he barely knew. He's a weirdo and they always need more perverts in the private sector. Let someone with a little more self-control be mayor.
J.R. on July 25, 2013 at 10:05 AM · Report this
It's not about the pics at this point. Get your head out of your ass.
Rotten666 on July 25, 2013 at 10:10 AM · Report this
The fact remains that there are plenty of folks out there without ANY nude pictures available on the internet.
Keekee on July 25, 2013 at 10:13 AM · Report this
@2 (and by extension, Fnarf) - Yes, how dare he slip up and be looked at by the sex-obsessed/sex-averse American public. I for one refuse to be led by people who are human, and will only ever vote for confirmed automatons.
And who gives the tiniest fuck whether he and his wife have an agreement? I am not part of their marriage, and neither one is engaging in an affair of any kind with me; the terms of their relationship do not concern me or any of you.
MacCrocodile on July 25, 2013 at 10:13 AM · Report this
I don't care about his junk or how he shows it. But he does have a propensity to lie. And that must be considered.
Pope Peabrain on July 25, 2013 at 10:14 AM · Report this
He's married and its kinda gross. if he was single it'd be a totally different story. And maybe his wife is cool with it is an ok justification, I guess. But the odds of that seem really low.
Chester Copperpot on July 25, 2013 at 10:19 AM · Report this
Nobody cares what Anthony Weiner did in college, and nobody expects a college kid to be Mayor of New York City. They don't have the impulse control, and apparently neither does Anthony Weiner.
on July 25, 2013 at 10:24 AM · Report this
I thinking sexting pics is a great, low-risk activity for a couple in a monogamish relationship, IF you're not in the public eye. Like many other commentators, I'm more concerned that he knew this was a liability that could ruin his campaign, but he STILL couldn't stop the behavior. His lack of self control in such a high stakes scenario indicates a huge character flaw.
Ashley on July 25, 2013 at 10:24 AM · Report this
Danny is right.
Gommorah ain't going to skip itself to us, people...
crank up the depravity and deviancy.
Times 'a wasting!
I'm with @7 -- definitely about the consent issues, but especially about the awfulness of the word "sexting."
Alicia on July 25, 2013 at 10:30 AM · Report this
@11, voters give politicians a lot of power. Weiner's asking for that power, claiming he's got good enough political judgment to hang onto it for a full mayoral term, so that voters will know they won't be left unprotected against opposing interests during that time.
If Weiner can't manage to hold it together even for the course of a campaign for mayor, why should voters believe he can hold it together for the duration of an actual mayoral term?
It doesn't matter what the nature of his inability to hold off his opponents may be.
TomJohnsonJr on July 25, 2013 at 10:32 AM · Report this
I agree with the issue being a lack of judgment and let's also not forget what country we are living in. This is the Backward States of America and not Europe. Sad but true; this shit DOES matter to much of the electorate at large. Should it matter? Of course not, but it does. And if you are a politician in this day and age doing sexting and the rest you have to go back to Fnarf's original issue of judgment.
Cato the Younger Younger on July 25, 2013 at 10:32 AM · Report this
Please think of the precedent this will set. In 15 years, there may be literal dick-size measuring contests in politics.
delirian on July 25, 2013 at 10:33 AM · Report this
But we don't live in this future crass Bonobo-Star-Trekian Sex paradise.
We live now.
And now - here and now - being a politician repeatedly being busted compulsively sending pictures of your dick to people not your spouse is FUCKING STUPID and makes you look like an incompetent fool.
tkc on July 25, 2013 at 10:34 AM · Report this
Cmon Dan its foolish to think all "kids" do this, plenty don't. But you are right this shouldn't destroy a political career.
Seattle14 on July 25, 2013 at 10:34 AM · Report this
To be honest about he's New York's problem. If they're okay with a guy who tweets pictures of his junk then so be it. If not he'll pay the consequences.
Frank Blethen's vodka distiller on July 25, 2013 at 10:34 AM · Report this
@ 19 Backwards there is nothing backwards here, if you got such a hard on for Europe why don't you move there?
I agree with @20. That will be the inevitable result.
MLM on July 25, 2013 at 10:38 AM · Report this
BULLSHIT. Go read # 1, Dan.. and please forward it to Andrew.
TreGibbs on July 25, 2013 at 10:43 AM · Report this
Are you guys kidding? This has nothing to do with the "content" or "context" of the scandal. Anthony Weiner will never live this down because he sent someone picks of his dick AND HIS LAST NAME IS WEINER. Forget @2 "Mayors should be better," the real lesson here is "if your name is a sex thing you need to be more careful about sex things."
Ruke on July 25, 2013 at 10:55 AM · Report this
First, I reject the premise that "Kids today: each and every one of them" are doing this. I'll assume that's just hyperbole. A lot of them, yes. All of them, no. The kids you encounter and hear from, Dan, are hardly a representative sampling.
Second, even if they were, there is a world of difference between a kid whose brain is still developing who makes the ill-informed decision to send a pic of his junk to his girlfriend and that of a 48-year old man who already quit Congress because of what he did with strangers AND THEN KEEPS DOING IT with strangers! No self-control whatsoever. Did he not consider that one of these women might share his sexting with a reporter?
That said, this is indeed up to the people of NYC to decide. I get to say my piece, but the decision is theirs. It will be interesting to see what happens to Weiner's donors.
NotYourStrawMan on July 25, 2013 at 10:58 AM · Report this
If he hadn't resigned from Congress, I'd be much less judgmental. He was a good/great liberal advocate, and he threw that away because it's only okay if you're a Republican. If he's going to hold *himself* to such idiotic standards, then he better hold to them and not continue with this kind of impulsive behavior.
keshmeshi on July 25, 2013 at 11:02 AM · Report this
you don't have to stick by your original point, which made sense at the time, but now doesn't at all. weiner has no sense of judgment or shame, and his apology was a travesty.
Cook on July 25, 2013 at 11:03 AM · Report this
How is showing someone your junk, without their permission, not sexual harassment? Doesn't matter if it's real life or the internets. If he had exposed his junk to someone he barely knew in Central Park, would we even be having this discussion? (If he was mayor and did the same thing, wouldn't that be an abuse of power?)
Also agree re the abject lack of judgment, the lying, etc. etc. No reason to grant power to someone who has repeatedly shown pathological behavior.
Minneapolitan on July 25, 2013 at 11:05 AM · Report this
The whole thing is circular:
sexting should be forgivable....
but he showed poor judgement...
but it shouldn't be a career killer...
but it is and he shouldn't have done it...
On and on ad infinitum - Dan is right. Cut the knot! Someone has to be the first to overcome this stupid cycle, and it might as well be Weiner. Everyone needs to put a naked pic online. It should be required by law. Then we'd be over this idiocy.
Lance Thrustwell on July 25, 2013 at 11:08 AM · Report this
Yep, I think its a mistake for Dan to pick Weiner as the poster cock for sexual freedom between consenting adults.
At best he's a creep, at worst he's a sexual predator for sending unwanted dick-picks to women.
Gentlemen: The existence of a handful of women who welcome cock shots does not give you license to send cock shots to all women.
Savage Love July 2011
Consent, consent, consent....
debug on July 25, 2013 at 11:13 AM · Report this
Consent. Consent. Say it with me, Dan. This is about consent.
Torchy Blane on July 25, 2013 at 11:32 AM · Report this
I don't care about Anthony Weiner because I don't live in New York. Local news in New York tends to be over reported, but there really is no reason for most major news sources to be expending any resources on this.
fletc3her on July 25, 2013 at 11:46 AM · Report this
Why are we talking about this like "kids will be kids" and "we all did crazy stuff in college"? Weiner is in his 40's! The internet and digital photos and twitter are not his native environment like kids today. I'm in my late 20's and I only knew one person in University with a digital camera for the first few years. I'm in my 20's and I'm legit scandalized by this.
This is a grown ass man, and he is expected to act as a respectable adult. Imagine how incomprehensible it is that say, Hillary Clinton started tweeting pictures of her junk all over the internet while running for office in her 60's. See how that is fundamentally incompatible with our concept of a competent respectable adult?
Maybe this "junk on the internet" taboo will be broken, but it should be broken by someone who actually came of age in the time of social media and camera phones. Not some man who took up the habit in his 40's.
ams_ on July 25, 2013 at 11:48 AM · Report this
It isn't the sexting.
It is the sexting to women without their consent. It is the lying. It is the hypocrisy. It is the utter cluelessness.
He would creep me out as the manager of a bar, much less the mayor of a city.
Reverse Polarity on July 25, 2013 at 11:56 AM · Report this
Fucking A, I agree with Dan Savage AND Andrew Sullivan, end of the world must be nigh......
SoapMacTavish on July 25, 2013 at 12:05 PM · Report this
@19 you're so right. In Europe you can rape the shit out of an immigrant hotel maid and nobody cares. Or get elected Prime Minister in spite of your taste for 14 year old Moroccan prostitutes. The have it dialed in so much better than us puritanical Americans.
Westside forever on July 25, 2013 at 12:08 PM · Report this
My impression was he sent his dick picks to women without them requesting them or consenting to them.
If he had walked to the park and whipped his dick out in front of a bunch of ladies, we would not be having this discussion, now would we?
Theodore Gorath on July 25, 2013 at 12:19 PM · Report this
I can agree with the premise that eventually, if all known people with revealing photos available on line are ruled out of holding public office, we will be left with no candidates but homeschooled creationists. But must a trench-hardened lesbian who has earned her way up be the sacrificial victim for the first case?
Why not get over this with a woman candidate first? That would be a double win.
vennominon on July 25, 2013 at 12:22 PM · Report this
The three most pathetic people in the universe:
- Anthony Weiner
- His wife
- Any New Yorker that votes for him.
Here are his recent penis pics. After he resigned from Congress, and after he announced for mayor.
raindrop on July 25, 2013 at 12:27 PM · Report this
This is just the final public outing of what has been going on with adult male heterosexuality in the past 14 years.
It's like the transition from I didn't inhale to President Choom (or the difference between homosexuality in the 1950s and the 1970s).
Supreme Ruler Of The Universe on July 25, 2013 at 12:39 PM · Report this
So long as we ask people not to be sexual, so long as we require them to lie about being sexual when we find out about it, so long as sexuality is something pushed into closets, we're going to get this type of "dishonesty."
Should he be honest? Of course. But, who among us is honest about our sexuality to every stranger that happens to walk by? If a perfect stranger walked up to you and asked you about intimate details about your sex life…are you required to be honest about that? Of course not, and the same should hold true for elected officials. We shouldn't require them to tell us anything about their sex lives. And, if we do ask them, their lying to us is perfectly justifiable, just as you'd be justified in lying to a stranger who asks you questions about your sex life.
A lie is only a lie to someone who is entitled to the truth. We, the public, are not entitled to any truth about the sex lives of our politicians. All this "it's the way he handled it" bullshit is just that.
Timothy on July 25, 2013 at 12:58 PM · Report this
1. This guy continued to sext and make gross comments to young women even after swearing publicly that he felt like a changed person. It would be one thing if he'd said, "I did some sexting and I'm sorry it got out where it could bother people, but it's private and here's why it won't affect my ability to work for you as a public servant," but he didn't. He took the craven route and lied. 2. There are programs that he could have used to keep his pictures private, but he didn't use them. He wanted to get caught and have a big scandal.
That is why it would not be good for him to be mayor of New York. He's a coward and a hypocrite who definitely lacks self-control and may have self-destructive tendencies.
DRF on July 25, 2013 at 1:10 PM · Report this
Even if Weiner and his wife have an agreement - which is possible but not likely - she still looks pretty damn miserable on that podium.
chicago girl on July 25, 2013 at 1:11 PM · Report this
@46…she's miserable because YOU are putting her on that platform and watching her squirm. You are part of the problem.
@45…Anthony Weiner does not owe you the truth on this topic. You're the one demanding it, but he isn't obligated to be honest with you on this (or likely any) topic.
Timothy on July 25, 2013 at 1:14 PM · Report this
ahh, well faahh-quee both Dan&andrew, I don't think we should it should wreck a political career if a person have naked pictures of themselves, and the specialized specific data sites have become like the fantasies of a persons mind, if they want think about it but not have the courage to do it, who I am to call -- chicken bwak-bwak-CHICKEN!! -- what the hell is wrong with following through just once?
but I can't force them to DO IT! They're not me
your pal Weiner there, sent -- unsolicited -- images of his dick, and it wasn't some tech saavy polytick that hacked his phone, grabbed the images and ran nor did the cracker POS send it.
Weiner did, and it's not testosterone alone, that makes you horny, nor is it being horny that is the problem, and if you think that being "uncontrolably" horny is a problem, YOU too are part of the problem. There is a difference between fucking anything willing, and being overpowering, forceful, and controlling over those who in no way shape or form consent. Testosterone not only provides idiots the pathway to go that route, but it blinds them to the truth as to why they do it.
If you want to make a difference, how bout advocating for secure online voting, since nearly everyone has access to the web, there are secure ways to record everything that happens and there would be no more ignoring any demographic that is eligible and simply wants to vote.
Instead of now, and the 30-40% who decide who makes policy because they don't want to take the two hour long two transfer bus ride to the polling station and set in line for two hours and hopeful make the last bus back
Anyone who values democracy, will be interested in the True Voice of the People, not this bullshit "if they are too lazy to vote" not this "the republic stops angry mob rule" cause I say fuck it all-- There is no Freedom, Justice, Liberty until any state in any Democracy listen to the True Voice of the People
fuck all that other bullshit, there are important things than my unimportant life, if it means His Truth is Marching On
Glory-glooory-hallelujah!
enough of the comedy, quit fucking around and say what will bring change, makes sure you are always in the right (as in not wrong, and not politically) and go forward, bulldoze over toes, roll through whatever idiot attempts to prevent Freedom, Liberty and Justice for ALL, carry if you have to, and slaughter those foolish enough draw first.
There are countless people depending on someone to do something
Dirtclustit on July 25, 2013 at 1:33 PM · Report this
It is amazing how angry and entitled so many people are here. Conceptually, this is pretty simple. What he does with his dick is none of my business. His marriage is none of my business. Running for office does not forfeit all rights to privacy. How he conducted himself in Congress, however, is relevant. Wiener campaigns for a job and nobody asks whether or not he's technically qualified? Vote for him or don't, but Christ, people are acting like he's married to their little sister.
lolorhone on July 25, 2013 at 1:35 PM · Report this
@47 When supporters provide him with millions of dollars to be elected and to fulfill a certain set of political missions, then he is obligated to try - really really try - to be elected.
Shoulder-shrug boys-will-be-boys responses to internet pictures of his junk, are a total 'fail' - fair or not.
NotSean on July 25, 2013 at 1:45 PM · Report this
In 15 years the scandal will be that we ever listened to Andrew Sullivan.
dirge on July 25, 2013 at 2:06 PM · Report this
@49 Christ. How simple is this? He sent pictures of his junk to women who didn't ask to see his junk. And he got busted.
Then he did it AIGAIN. And got busted. He's not doing it to solicit sex, he's doing it because the act of exposing himself get's him off.
It's only different from exposing himself on a subway train in the technology used to deliver the goods.
If that is not a demonstration of some pathologically unsound behavior worthy of shame I don't know what is.
tkc on July 25, 2013 at 2:15 PM · Report this
"He's not doing it to solicit sex, he's doing it because the act of exposing himself get's him off."
You know this how?
"It's only different from exposing himself on a subway train in the technology used to deliver the goods. "
Uh, they were cyberfucking. This requires some back and forth, some mutual participation that simply does not happen with flashers.
"If that is not a demonstration of some pathologically unsound behavior worthy of shame I don't know what is."
Well, he's not very nice but that's a matter for his wife to sort out, not the public at large.
Again, I'm not saying people SHOULD vote for him. But this angry, finger-wagging, torch-wielding mob that has arisen should mind their own. Wiener only owes the public competence at the job he is elected to, not an apology for being a bad husband. How simple is that?
Something that should be understood. Anthony Weiner isn't the Barney Frank of sexting; he's much more like Larry Craig. They were both outed for who they were, but only one of them was honest and open about it, and dealt with the attendant scandal as such. Weiner isn't behaving like that.
At some point, some politician will be brave when caught doing this, and actually help normalize this phenomenon. Anthony Weiner isn't that person. Anyone seeing an opportunity to use Weiner to further the goal of getting America's stick out of its ass will, at best, have no effect, and at worst, will help shove it further up there.
Matt from Denver on July 25, 2013 at 3:12 PM · Report this
Don't hope Weiner drops out/loses because of the sexting - hope it happens because he promised to rip up all of the new bike lanes.
on July 25, 2013 at 3:20 PM · Report this
> Kids today: each and every one of them is creating a smutty digital trail that could be used
> against them one day—unless we defuse these ticking dick pic time bombs now.
I'm skeptical that this describes all children today, anymore than a suggestion that all children in the 1970s had phone sex.
Sam Levine on July 25, 2013 at 3:49 PM · Report this
@54 Matt In Denver…
Have you written a letter to Anthony Weiner and Huma Abedin outlining your sexual proclivities? Have you been honest with us here on SLOG about what kind of sticks you like your ass? Do tell us; we expect full honesty here.
@53 Nobody here cares about his wife or their marriage.
He was sexually harassing women he did not know and sending them photos of his dick. None of these women asked him to send them a photo of his dick. Yet he did it anyway.
I'm pretty sure in this imaginary Bonobo-Star-Trekian-Sex-Party-Future Dan and Sullivan have in mind there will still be rules governing consent. THAT and Weiner's poor judgement are the issues here.
@58: They were sexting relationships- who made the first move is irrelevant when that move is reciprocated. Which is not to say it's not reckless or even compulsive behavior, just to say it's not a crime and really none of our collective business.
@59 In the first instance they certainly were not in any sort of relationship. That's why the story broke. The woman involved was creeped out.
@60 tkc and others, you've made some very bold statements about this being sexual harassment. For example, you stated "He was sexually harassing women he did not know and sending them photos of his dick."
I've searched, and the closest I can find is one woman who received a picture of him in his underwear; she doesn't say the messaging continued beyond that, and she doesn't make the charge of sexual harassment.
Can you point me to documentation that Mr. Weiner was sexually harassing these women?
The first story broke because Wiener accidentally sent an explicit photo over Twitter publically instead of privately. He then deleted the photo, but not before many had taken notice, after which other women that he had exchanged photos and sexts with came forward. Which makes it inappropriate. Not criminal.
Regardless, I think you're missing my point. I'm not defending his behavior, I'm just noting it's none of the public's business and a separate issue from job competence.
unless weiner is a child, your point is meaningless.
tainte on July 25, 2013 at 5:25 PM · Report this
It became the public's business right around the time he sent the public a picture of his erect penis, albeit by accident.
ams_ on July 25, 2013 at 5:30 PM · Report this
Nope, Dan, not every kid in America is sexting. Really. I don't claim that my kids aren't, but I think that there are certain activities that tap into the public imagination, igniting fear and unhappiness in the minds of parents and they get exaggerated.
Even if every kid in American is sending sexually explicit images of him/herself over the Internet, that doesn't mean it's a good reason for New Yorkers to elect Anthony Weiner to mayoral office. That's not what a vote to elected office is supposed to be about.
It's not the photos, it's the poor judgment shown in his choice of recipient (pick someone who wants your dick pic), the lies which are bound to be exposed, and the hubris to think that they won't be investigated and exposed, and the poor judgment in not realizing that sending pictures of your genitals to random people over the Internet is going to make many people question your fitness for political office.
nocutename on July 25, 2013 at 5:34 PM · Report this
@61 the very definition of harassment is sending sexual images to somebody without their explicit consent.
@62 It was Wiener version of events that it was mutual. I can find no verification of that.
@47, uh, excuse me? When did I say her personal life ought to be open for public consumption? I only said that she looks miserable. You are reading a ridiculous amount into a very brief comment, asshole.
@63: You want to explain what you mean, or did you just want to be a dick?
@66: I would think charges of sexual harassment would have been filed (or at least a public accusing) if it had down gone as you said. But there was not so much as a settlement. It's not like it wasn't already bad enough as is, PR-wise.
@ 57, on what do you base your attempt at turnabout? I think you're trying to call me a hypocrite, but there is nothing hypocritical in my statement. I welcome you to explain it to me as though I'm five.
Ms Cute - Perhaps we both didn't say the same thing.
I don't think this really fits the Gertrude Award, but this situation is a sort of cousin, if we really are thinking along similar lines.
vennominon on July 25, 2013 at 7:58 PM · Report this
So it was "truly awful" to see Huma publicly humiliated by her husband, but it's all good because she stood up and took that humiliation like a man!
Lol. Seriously? Fuck this idiot and fuck Weiner, too.
tacky on July 25, 2013 at 8:01 PM · Report this
@69…because you think you're entitled to something here from Weiner. You aren't. You're a stranger to him and he to you. He has no need to explain his sexuality to you, and you have no right to expect it.
The very notion that this is news is twisted simply for public consumption. Trading in the titillation and passing judgement on the character or acts of Weiner is well beyond your call of duty. So, I was just wondering if when asking and judging this stranger to you about his sexual life, you are freely offering your own as well?
@ 72, what do I think I'm entitled to? Where in my statement am I expressing any such thought?
You're clearly misreading me, possibly on purpose so that you can unload on someone. Sorry, but you're off base.I judge Weiner on his actions, as I have the right to do any public figure. My statement @54 isn't judgment upon his sexuality (which is the wrong word - you mean his proclivities, not sexuality), but upon the idea that Weiner is a victim of hypocritical American puritanical attitudes about the sex lives of politicians. As I said, there are pols like Barney Frank, and those like Larry Craig. Weiner is like Larry Craig.
Barney Frank is gay; Larry Craig was tap dancing like the ghost of Gregory Hines for dick in a bathroom stall in the Minneapolis Airport. Frank's "scandal" in quotes was about his sexuality; Craig's SCANDAL in all caps was about his proclivities which are, as you yourself just pointed out, not really analogous. And the only reason I say Craig's scandal should have cost him his political career is that his actions are relevant to his policy-making; he explicitly endorsed anti-gay legislation before he was arrested. Weiner has no such professional hypocrisy on record. He's just skeevy.
@ 74 But really Craig should have lost his position due to his anti-gay advocacy even if he'd been straight - his sexuality properly had no relevance. A straight homophobe is not better than a closeted gay homophobe.
LookielouE1707 on July 25, 2013 at 10:25 PM · Report this
@75: I agree, but advocating anti-gay legislation is, sadly, not illegal. In fact it was quite popular in this country until recently. However, it's ethically untenable to support anti-gay legislation while serving in Congress and engage in homosexual acts (in an illegal manner, no less) simultaneously. That bald PROFESSIONAL hypocrisy- that Craig actually shaped policy against not only his own identity and his peers but his very own actions at the time- should have cost him his career immediately.
BTW, the straight homophobe may do as much damage as the closeted gay one, but the latter is an enemy AND a traitor. So, in my mind, a bit worse.
lolorhone on July 25, 2013 at 10:57 PM · Report this
If only that were true. Instead, the fact still remains that only the asexual are in any position to claim that they're morally superior to the rest of us, and can shame us about our normal sexual desires.
gromm on July 26, 2013 at 12:09 AM · Report this
@77: I hope you're joking.
lolorhone on July 26, 2013 at 1:17 AM · Report this
Mr Rhone - Agreed; there's a distinct Victorian flavour to legislating against X publicly and proudly while Xing it up in secret, although I'd go so far as to say that orientation is mainly relevant in terms of frequency.
I didn't think of it earlier, but the mention of Mr Fierstein in the vodka threads reminded me that it's curious that Mr Savage's post's reminding me of Mr F (as this one does) happens so infrequently. Is anyone else picking up on a similarity to Torch Song Trilogy? (I think Ms Cute might be on a similar wavelength and accordingly I shall avoid more pointedly leading questions.)
vennominon on July 26, 2013 at 4:07 AM · Report this
Vitter and Sanford were forgiven for their sexual indiscretions. I think Weiner has a personal problem, but his sexual issues shouldn't derail his political ambitions.
Patricia Kayden on July 26, 2013 at 7:33 AM · Report this
@ 74, not exactly. Both Frank and Craig are gay. They were both outed in scandal. The nature of each scandal is immaterial. So are their voting records. That stuff is beside the point.
See, Dan and Sullivan are taking this up solely on the basis of taking on American puritanical views on sex. So I'm looking at two other male politicians who were also victims of that. (And yes, Craig was; if it weren't for the way our attitudes twist gay men into lifelong closet cases, he wouldn't have had to resort to trying to give or get head in an airport restroom.)
Dan, I sincerely hope no predatory douchecanoe has to sent unwanted dick pics to your kid for you to really *get* why what he did is wrong wrong wrongity wrong with a capital WRONG.
This has nothing to do with Puritanical American pearl-clutching and everything to do with another foundation block laid for the dispicable Rape Culture Support Warehouse, built out of blocks including this garbage screed of yours. Fuck you for going along with it.
Also, leave his wife the hell alone. Nothing she does won't be picked apart as if it was *her fault* he's a privilege-abusing jackwagon. It isn't. He's responsible for his own shit, being a grown man and all. Jesus.
happyhedonist on July 26, 2013 at 1:28 PM · Report this
@81: Uh, no. Both the nature of the scandals and their voting records are quite relevant. I agree with Dan and Sullivan about American puritanical bullshit completely. That's why the only reason I care about Craig's indiscretions is because he spent his career advocating anti-gay legislation. His professional life and his personal life are not distinct and separate in this case. Which takes "privacy" right off the table; you seek to legislation other people's sex lives, you forfeit the luxury of keeping yours to yourself. And, on a personal note, those who shit on their peers because they can't handle being who they are forfeit any sympathy from me.
@ 83, sorry, but you can't have it both ways. If there's a line between the public and private persona of one politician, then that line exists for all. If we make one exception, then that exception applies to all.
Anyway, you're missing my point completely. I'll let you see if you can reread what I wrote from a fresh perspective. Because I feel that I've been quite clear, I won't spend any more time explaining it.
@84: There is a difference between missing your point and disagreeing with it. The crux of my argument is simple- a separation between an elected official's personal and professional life. However, if this elected official uses their professional position to legislate other people's private lives, then they have opened their own private life up to scrutiny. That is not having it both ways, that's being fair.
"I'll let you see if you can reread what I wrote from a fresh perspective. Because I feel that I've been quite clear, I won't spend any more time explaining it."
BTW, I don't feel you've heard my point either, and I'm managing to express that without being a condescending dick about it.
Mr. Ven,
You flatter me. I simply noted that Harvey Fierstein was the person who drew initial attention (at least for me) to the Vodka/Russian/Putin-is-a-scary-bigot issue. His is a voice I wish we heard more from (literally--I love his voice).
nocutename on July 27, 2013 at 8:30 AM · Report this
He's not a kid and he did not do this activity when he was a kid.
End of story. It goes to judgment.
westello on July 27, 2013 at 9:43 AM · Report this
@33, 52, et al. Exactly, thank you.
If he were single, engaged with willing participants, had the judgement to be discreet, I wouldn't care. If he were married, had an agreement, engaged with willing participants, and discreet I wouldn't care. In either of these two scenarios if he were honest and had the BALLS to stand up for his choices I wouldn't care. I would applaud him. This isn't the case--he got caught, lied his ass off, resigned, and kept on his merry way only to be caught again. I mean c'mon, this guy has a problem. And yes, it's very indicative of his judgement and self control. It would seem he has an addiction or at the very least a compulsion. I know when I first started playing online I was obsessed with it (please god don't let that come back to haunt me!) and yes--it interfered with my work and my life. THAT is the issue here--he doesn't seem capable of putting others' needs before his compulsion (ie humiliating his wife on a national stage yet again)--someone like that can't be trusted to put the needs of one of the world's most important cities first.
jujubee80 on July 28, 2013 at 7:26 AM · Report this
@87 precisely, this guy is not in high school. I think it's appropriate to expect public figures to exhibit better judgement than a horny 15 year old.
Weiner needs a name change... might help him get his dick off his brain.
An aside... anyone remember the Nickelodeon show, Weinerville? When they'd fade to commercial, they'd have puppets singing, Weiner, weiner, weiner..."
That's what runs through my head every time I see a photo of this very stupid man. If he's too dumb to figure out Twitter, he's too dumb for public office. Which also rules out 95% of Congress...
portland scribe on July 28, 2013 at 1:00 PM · Report this