Downloads / Bootlegs
Smiths Rarities in FLAC/WAV
Thread starter Ess90
Ess90
Hi, guys. Longtime reader.
I don't know if it's poor etiquette to make one's very first post in the download section, but here I go.
I've been undertaking a homespun Smiths archival project recently, which has consisted of sequencing five seperate compilations of material in addition to reassembling all the individual UK single releases as best I can from various official releases. Three of those compilations are complete, as are all but one of the singles. I'm missing some key tracks for the rest, however—or rather, I have most of them in MP3, but would like to get hold of FLAC or WAV copies if possible. I realise that available sources for some of these tracks are hardly high fidelity to begin with and are marred by tape hiss and other sonic mud, but I'd much prefer to work from a 'lossless' format so as to minimize further deterioration of the source. If anybody can help me out with any of these, I'd certainly be happy to privately share the results of my labors when completed (if nothing else, these sets will provide a new context in which to revisit and refresh one's appreciation of this great music).
The material I'm looking for;
• I Want a Boy for My Birthday—1982 Home Demo/The Hand That Rocks the Cradle—1982 Decibelle Studios Demo/Suffer Little Children—1982 Decibelle Studios Demo (I realise these three cuts from 1982 may never have appeared on any kind of hard copy bootleg and are probably only circulating in the form of MP3's ripped from YouTube, but one can hope)
• I Don't Owe You Anything—Kid Jensen BBC Session, 09.05.1983 (The best sounding copy I've heard of this one is on the Never-Heard Symphonies set, but that only seems to be circulating in MP3 form, and I'm none the wiser as to the compiler's original source)
• What Difference Does It Make?—Single Edit, Rough Trade 7" RT 146 (A vinyl rip in FLAC/WAV)
• Girl Afraid—Live at University of Glasgow, UK, 03.02.1984, New Musical Express NME 011 Cassette (A cassette rip of this one in FLAC/WAV would be much appreciated, as opposed to a bootleg of the live show)
• Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now—Extended Mix, Rough Trade 12" RTT 156 Mispressing (A vinyl rip in FLAC/WAV)
• Nowhere Fast/Stretch Out and Wait/Shakespeare's Sister/Meat Is Murder—Live at Oxford Apollo, 03.18.1985, Rough Trade 12" RTT 186 (A vinyl rip of these four tracks in FLAC/WAV would be much appreciated, as opposed to a bootleg of the live show or the 'fade-out' versions released on Singles Box)
• Rubber Ring—Drone Studios Demo, 08.1985, Warner Bros. Records 7" TSRSD 2017 (A vinyl rip in FLAC/WAV)
• Rubber Ring—RAK Studios Demo, 08.1985 (This is the one that clocks in a good 45 seconds or so longer than the Drone Studios demo; I don't know if this ever featured on a bootleg disc, or whether it's only circulated in the form of the MP3 I already have)
• Unloveable—RAK Studios Demo, 09.1985 (Again, I don't know if this ever featured on a bootleg disc, or whether it's only circulated in the form of the MP3 I already have)
• Work Is a Four-Letter Word—45 Edit, Rough Trade 7" RT 197 (A vinyl rip in FLAC/WAV)
I know, I don't want much. Here's hoping some of you guys come help out, and that I haven't broken any rules.
Thanks for reading in any case, and I look forward to engaging in some worthwhile chat re. The Smiths/Morrissey in the future, now that I've finally signed up.
Ess90 said:
I'm assuming you've sifted through the Google Drive Archive for bits - as that does represent the majority of what has ever been shared in the highest quality where it was possible.
I find vinyl FLAC is only as good as the equipment and that may actually work against the whole idea of what someone envisages 'lossless' as (my exception to that rule would be the Tacky Badge collection as the aim was to improve on existing sources).
The Hibbert stuff is never going to be more than YT rips - can't see that happening in any better form.
I will look through all this later, but if you haven't - do check through the official recordings in the archive too.
Famous when dead said:
Thanks kindly for the input, FWD.
You assume correctly, I did extensively plunder the "Unofficial Recordings" section of the archive for bootleg stuff in FLAC and searched for needledrops in the "Official Recordings" section (turning up a vinyl rip of the Italian How Soon Is Now somewhere along the way).
I haven't expected to have any luck regarding the 1982 material.
ET(AATB) was a heroic effort, but a few things did confuse me about that set—for instance, the use of a fade-out for the 7" edit of What Difference Does It Make? (as far as I know, the 45 version finished in the same fashion as the longer version, albeit with a large chunk of instrumental outro clipped out) and the live tracks from the That Joke Isn't Funny Anymore single release appearing to be sourced from a live bootleg instead of the 12" itself. Caused me to wonder if the edit version of Work Is a Four-Letter Word in that set was 'created' by the compiler by taking the longer version and running their own fade-out on it (it does appear to sound just as it does on the 7", however—while I'm on the subject, that anyone saw fit to edit that track for 45 in 1987 is inexplicable in itself, given that the version on the 12" is hardly of an epic duration).
Really, when it comes to the vinyl stuff, I should acquire copies of the relevant records and do my own 'drops (i.e. pay to have them done well), but I've been juggling a whole bunch of archival projects of this type and hopefully fancied that someone who'd already made decent 'drops might be willing to share and spare me some heavy lifting in this case.
I will go through these with some further info for you where possible.
I have everything mentioned on vinyl in climate controlled storage and haven't gone near it in a long time.
I nixed the obsessive collecting a long while back as it was getting daft (sleeve has faint colour discrepancy as print machine was running out = must have rarity = gets old very quickly). So, I too appreciate those that still record on a decent setup to save hassle.
Will see what I can find.
I nixed the obsessive collecting a long while back as it was getting daft (sleeve has faint colour discrepancy as print machine was running out = must have rarity = gets old very quickly).
I very much relate, having had to similarly curtail my own obsessive collecting activities in my late twenties.
Thanks in advance for digging around when you get a chance, I appreciate the interest in my endeavor.
SuedeMoz
Sorry to sound clueless... but where is said Google Drive Archive?
SuedeMoz said:
Right there in his post, just click the word "archive".
do check through the official recordings in the archive too.
Thanks... totally missed it earlier....
Right, you can cross off this one:
This is the RSD Boy demo & Rubber Ring Drone.
It is a huge wave of both tracks - so you will need to cut it up in to 2.
Sounds great IIRC, but wasn't well received as a product here (people critical of the demos)
The matrix message got more attention to be honest.
Anyway:
24/96 wav.
Boy demo and Rubber Ring 7 Inch Drone Demo 96.24.wav
1 file sent via WeTransfer, the simplest way to send your files around the world
we.tl
(457mb)
Re: Work Is...
Yes, the editing is by Analog Loyalist and as it is simply a fade, they made one from the full track.
Above never shared beyond 256 M4A.
I don't know where DavidA's mp3 version of said is derived from, but given the inclusion of almost everything as FLAC somewhere - I suspect it's the Tacky Badge version there too.
Someone here may be able to help you out.
Re: Hibbert.
I think I was one of the only people to archive everything via saving the highest BR videos and making files from them.
If you got the collection of said from here, then that will be about it.
I had a suspicion they wouldn't hang around forever and see a lot of YT posts that are clearly derived from my collation of it all.
Re: Oxford.
Are the FLACs of 3 of the live tracks from the Headmaster Ritual CD single (RTT215CD) no good?
The tracks chosen were spread throughout the gig, so each one will have a slight fade as they don't run consecutively.
Stretch is there also - all 4 (not bootleg) are in the archive Official Recordings section and running times match the vinyl (they show up better if you have a hard drive copy to search - drive doesn't show every last detail) . If it's vinyl-specific wanted then you'll need someone here to help, but as it's semantics really - both results are digital copies and there's no guarantee the vinyl rip will be an upgrade, so I'd recommend the early CD tracks as the mastering back then was less OTT and the digital copy from that will probably be the best source.
Re: [insert swear word] I Don't Owe.. Jensen.
These sessions have been so bastardised, chopped, reprocessed, repackaged et al... that finding reliable sources with clear records of where the track came from is an utter migraine-inducing affair (only surpassed by Troy Tate).
@DavidA collated all the various sources and produced decent guides as to the 'best' versions.
He has more patience than myself - as I find the way a lot of it has been shared has just lead to confusion and too many cooks...
Here are 2 versions that will be a step up from MP3:
M4A (aka Apple lossless) Soundsville pitch corrected version (so running time will differ)
and a FLAC from my own collection to compare:
01 I Don't Owe You Anything.m4a and 1 more file
2 files sent via WeTransfer, the simplest way to send your files around the world
I believe the Soundsville one is accepted as pretty decent.
I will carry on with this Friday evening.
You're a star, thanks ever so much.
I did note the negative sentiment on these pages regarding the Drone demo of Rubber Ring on the TSRSD 2017 7" single. Seemed (at least in part) to be fueled by deflated expectations, i.e. that the Drone demo would turn out to be the longer demo that had previously circulated through unofficial channels, while others seemed to believe the demo on the 7" was an edited version of that longer demo (two wholly different recordings by my lights).
I don't think I snagged your archive of the material. What I have is three MP3 files—I Want a Boy for My Birthday (143kbps, 3.07 MB, clocking in at 03:00), The Hand That Rocks the Cradle (320kbps, 14.9 MB, 06:33) and Suffer Little Children (320kbps, 15.6 MB, 06:50). I can't recall exactly where I pulled them from, though (possibly the aforementioned Google Drive).
I did also download MP3 files that had been made of the THTRTC/SLC 'isolated elements' which featured on Hibbert's channel for a while, but those won't figure in the set I'm putting together.
I did consider RTT 215CD, as a 1980's compact disc release (i.e. not brickwalled as all get out) would have been the perfect source if not for the absence of Shakespeare's Sister, but I've thus far held out for a 12" needledrop due to that missing track—I'm thinking I may well have to arrange that one myself, however (and would share here in that case, if doing so wouldn't violate any rules).
On the 12", the live tracks are edited (manipulating the crowd noise between songs) so as to make them sound consecutive, with no noticeable fade-ins or fade-outs until the conclusion of the final number (Meat Is Murder). Only reason I know this is on account of having done some YouTube research;
With your collection buried in storage, you might have (understandably) forgotten how those live tracks were originally presented on the vinyl.
Singles Box fades the tracks, sadly. Would have been very cool if Rhino could have presented them as they were originally released.
I will have another delve into that "Official Recordings" section and check that there isn't anything I missed, though.
Ooooph, brilliant. That Soundsville M4A matches the content of the MP3 I mentioned here;
Except it hasn't been cranked (seems whoever put together the Never-Heard Symphonies set boosted the volume).
Putting aside the Soundsville, the FLAC you provided would be a very serviceable source, too.
Once again, thanks very much. You've been great already, and I appreciate the tolerance for my geeking over specifics.
Yes, I may have misremembered seeing 3 individual track markings delineated on the original vinyl.
I forget how many copies of that I stashed let alone whether it was one continuous track on the B.
[Detective hat on]
The CD single files in the archive were suggested as a more pure digital form - unfortunately...
I took Nowhere Fast, cropped off the ending in to a new project and pasted the beginning of Stretch... at the end of that crop...
They marry up perfectly, no fade - sadly the CD not having SS on it then ruins continuity for the last 2 desired tracks.
The first 2 are identical to your YT version though.
(MP3 if interested)
I have this vinyl - see below for general comment about rips.
Re: Girl Afraid NME tape.
I wrote off for this - still have it if the oxidising gremlins have kept away (see below for general comment about rips).
It appears Tacky et al have shared the Asleep version repeatedly.
I noticed @dirtee rephlex offers a different version in Recollections - perhaps they'd be kind enough to say where it's from?
It runs a bit fast, seems different and fades sooner.
Rubber Ring RAK Studios Demo is in the Recollections files (320 cbr / 4mins 14 secs).
That was sourced from the NHS 2012 collection - which @Skylarker may be able to help with.
My guess is it was a Smiths Torrents share.
I may be having a brain fart, but Unloveable is via the Michael Bone parts of the Soundcloud leaks - so be wary of huge bit rate files as they were never provided as such (although it may have physical CD roots) - a small point too: the attributed term RAK was never on this file - just 'demo'. I'm not going off down rabbit holes and would just prefer better provenance.
The who and when regarding its first appearance circa 2015 will probably remain a mystery as too: the tagging of RAK.
I'm just not sure if the 'studio outtake' is the RAK demo, but it's 4:16 so it is the former if anything - I'm tired, so probably need to reread this with fresh eyes.
That said, here's a 320 cbr from the repackaged Soundcloud collection presented a while back. It may be an upgrade for you?
04 Unloveable (demo).mp3
Ignore if not.
See my post upcoming post Tuesday re: rip comment above and remainder.
That shouldn't stop anyone wanting to dust off their vinyl to help out though.
I was interested, and you're perfectly correct. If only RTT 215CD hadn't omitted Shakespeare's Sister.
Now that you've touched on it, I have a small point of interest to make re. this Glasgow '84 performance of Girl Afraid;
I've come across two distinct variations labelled with reference to the NME cassette.
The first is the one found on the Asleep set you mentioned, which begins with a very brief snatch of audience noise before the opening guitar arpeggios kick in, while the other begins with the guitar arpeggios and finds Morrissey offering a "Thank you" to the cheering crowd after the song's conclusion (MP3 linked)—this latter variation is the one found in the Recollections set, although @dirtee rephlex has quickly faded it before the "Thank you" (you mentioned the swift fade in your description above).
A listen to the boot of the full show at Queen Margaret Hall reveals that Morrissey did not thank the crowd after Girl Afraid, ergo the "Thank you" that is heard in the second variation must have been grafted in for effect (I think it's taken from the conclusion of the following number in that evening's set, This Charming Man)—so do we assume, on account of the slick doctoring, that this is the true cassette presentation of the performance? Part of my interest in acquiring a verified rip of the cassette would be to clarify this point.
After however many decades since you last listened to your cassette, I don't suppose you recall whether the Girl Afraid it contained had a "Thank you" at its conclusion? I'm guessing that's a bit much to ask.
Yep, the file in the Recollections set is what I have. I'm guessing that one's never circulated in anything other than MP3.
Very close to the MP3 I already had, except mine had some metadata that seemingly couldn't be wiped ("michaelbone" and "unlove" in the 'Contributing artists' and 'Title' fields), so your upload is very welcome. Thank you kindly, FWD.
I think my assumption that this demo was cut at RAK was based on this page at passionsjustlikemine. Although, that's perhaps a shaky basis for assumption, since one could be forgiven for having thought that any and all vocal demos for Rubber Ring must've been cut at RAK based on this page, when we know now that a demo for that song was cut at Drone Studios.
dirtee rephlex
Outside your house
The 'NME' version of Girl Afraid I used for Recollections was taken from the NHS so the missing 'Thank You' was edited out before. I wouldn't mind the real version from the cassette...
I had to intrude.
dirtee rephlex said:
As suspected, the 2012 NHS is the source.
No egg sucking intended:
The Soundcloud leaks come from aborted CDs - the reference versions of which fell in to certain collector's hands and then (fortunately) were ripped. So along with the various leaked sessions for Morrissey, Rhino's Smiths' QID reference CD became something to be cherry picked from for the digital leaks:
So 2 tracks in contention perhaps.
(8 or 16 - 16 being practically ruled out by description).
The CD sold on Ebay did indeed match the PJLM description despite my reservations at the time:
"In 2006, Warner considered releasing a 20th anniversary edition of "The Queen Is Dead" through its subsidiary Rhino. This anniversary edition would have come with a bonus cd of related rarities. Plans fell through but cd-rs of the project have made it into the hands of people who were involved.
The cd-r has a paper label with a Basement Tapes logo, band name, title, and the date "1.16.06". It comes in a slimline jewel case with a white card insert featuring the same information as on the cd, plus the full track listing, which goes as follows: "The Queen Is Dead" (demo), "Frankly Mr Shankly" (demo), "I Know It's Over" (demo), "Never Had No One Ever" (demo), "Cemetry Gates" (demo), "Bigmouth Strikes Again" (demo), "The Boy With The Thorn In His Side" (demo), "Unloveable" (demo), "Vicar In A Tutu" (demo instrumental), "There Is A Light That Never Goes Out" (take 1), "Some Girls Are Bigger Than Others" (demo), "Frankly Mr Shankly" (trumpet version), "Rubber Ring" (b-side), "Asleep" (b-side), "Money Changes Everything" (b-side), "Unloveable" (LP outtake), "The Queen Is Dead" (full version), "Never Had No One Ever" (take one / instrumental)."
This was clearly something 'michaelbone' had access to. I would have just expected better labelling even at a proto-stage prior to cancelling the project.
My spider sense always tingles when demos and studio outtakes both have the exact same running time - so I leant towards studio outtake as it was stated to run at exactly 4:18.
PJLM doesn't help by labelling it "studio outtake / demo" too (via your link).
I will have a deep dive on this at some point, but it may just be something that needs a 'could be' rather than 'is'.
How this relates to the tracks from 2017 is ? too.
Will continue Wednesday.
Ifti
Hello Famous... this is the first time and probably the last time I will send a message on here. The reasons aren't that important or that interesting. However I have to send just a quick message to THANK YOU for the info/links/tracks etc that you have continued to supply over the last 20 odd years. You, single handly, have ensured that I visit this site on a regular basis. I also love that you're non-judemental, avoid taking sides and have ensured some level of humanity manifests on this website. I dont know you ( I dont think so anyway, although i spent the first 19 yrs of my life in Brum and visit when permissable) but you come across as such a decent and gentle person. Thats it! Adios Amigo. Thanks again and All the Best.
Ifti said:
[blushes in FLAC]
Very kind, thank you.
(I posted for a long time anonymously here, but shared what I had - I'm similarly as grateful to the rarity collectors/sharers/collators throughout the years - facilitated kindly by this site).
Ahh, so the fade choice was not yours. I've definitely perused some incarnation or other of the Never-Heard Symphonies set, but I couldn't recall the Glasgow '84 Girl Afraid being on there. Thanks for the input.
The file I have is this here MP3. I don't know whether it's the one labelled "Demo" or the one labelled "LP Out Take Used As B-Side" on the QID reference disc you illustrated above, but maybe you can clarify? If the one labelled "LP Out Take Used As B-Side" is actually an uncut presentation of the Bigmouth Strikes Again B-side (which clocked in at just under four minutes), then I'd assume my file is the one marked "Demo", as it sounds quite markedly different from the officially released recording in many respects. However, given the chatter at its conclusion, I concede that it would probably be more accurately described as some kind of studio session rehearsal take than as a demonstration recording as such. Would you concur?
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