Darynda Jones Fans discussion
TGDA Book Discussion > Day 8 - Growth or Change?
message 1: by Dana, Founder (new)
Do any characters grow or change during the course of the novel? If so, in what way?
message 2: by Ines (new)
Well, Charley definitely grows because of her father, Reyes and her new found abilities. I guess most of the characters grow/change their way of thinking when they acknowledge who Charley really is, even though her stepmother is not one of them. Denial is a powerful thing, but I think she'll suffer for her husband... I'm very curious to know if Garrett remembers (although I'm sure he will in the end because Darynda said she had something special planned for him). Reyes has to grow as well, I hope Donovan helps there since he seems way more mature! Cookie and Ubie are already loving and caring but maybe they'll grow as a couple? I'd love to see Ubie and Amber interact as stepfather/stepdaughter. Charley's father is one we can be sure to be changing as he battles guilt and very poor decisions...
And I think I wrote a little too much! :)
message 3: by Candie (new)
Yeah, I definitely think Charley has grown as a character since the first book. Especially after dealing with a tremendous amount of stress,pain and letdown in the third book. I am hoping to see her develop even more in the next book as she begins to understand what she's capable of. I just don't know who will be the one to help her out on that front.
message 4: by Traci (Mad Hatter Reads) (new)
Ines wrote: "Well, Charley definitely grows because of her father, Reyes and her new found abilities. I guess most of the characters grow/change their way of thinking when they acknowledge who Charley really is..."
Ines you didn't write too much:) I would say that we've seen growth and/or change in most of the characters. Charley being the most (which we would expect)-she's had growth in her powers, changes in her relationships with those in her life as well as growth with new relationships. Reyes grew when he decided he wouldn't try to separate himself from his corporeal body any more...what I see there is his acceptance of the situation and Charley's wishes. We've seen a lot of acceptance from Ubie, Cookie, Garrett and Gemma, but unfortunately, there is the negative changes from Leland. In First Grave he's pretty supportive of Charley, but we've seen his repetitive betrayals over the last two books and now he and Charley aren't in a good place.
As the series continues we'll be seeing a lot more growth/changes. Charley has to come into her powers. Reyes and Charley both need to make some changes so their relationship can grow. Hopefully Leland will come to his senses and realize that he needs to accept Charley for who she is and what she does and make amends. Denise...not sure there is any hope for that relationship, but it would be nice to see her more supportive or at least not actively trying to drive wedges deeper.
message 5: by Mel (new)
Traci wrote: "Ines wrote: "Well, Charley definitely grows because of her father, Reyes and her new found abilities. I guess most of the characters grow/change their way of thinking when they acknowledge who Char..."
Ines and Traci - Great points! Ines, I am the one who usually writes many paragraphs, so you didn't write too much.
Charlie and Cookie's relationship has grown too. Charlie trusted Cookie with her past and abilities. She was the first person she shared everything with since high school...a major and scary step for Charlie because of how her high school best friend reacted with the information.
Garrett and Charlie's relationship has improved over the three novels. Even if he does not remember what he heard while "dead", he was already beginning to accept Charley's ability's. In the first novel, they were hardly speaking and in the third Charley went to him when she needed to stay awake.
Charlie and her sister's relationship is improving...they discussed their problems and are working towards a solid sisterly relationship.
Ubie is much more supportive of Charlie so that is improvement.
Candie, I too look for a lot of growth from Charlie and Reyes in the next novels. She will need to develop her skills as the Grim Reaper. She will also need to come to terms with all the mistrust and misuse. Both Reyes and Charlie will need to learn more about each other and how to communicate and cooperate.
Sorry if I repeated someone else's idea and that I wrote too much... :-)
Traci and Mel, you just made me feel better! Hehe
Reyes grew when he decided he wouldn't try to separate himself from his corporeal body any more...what I see there is his acceptance of the situation and Charley's wishes.
So right Traci! I hadn't thought about it that way but I agree with you.
I'm really glad that their relationship is improving because Charley is starting to lack supporting elements of her family. And I also like Gemma a lot, the thought of her being Charley's shrink is very funny! Moreover, she also has romance potential with the guy managing the prison but I forgot his name.
Ines wrote: "Traci and Mel, you just made me feel better! Hehe
Reyes grew when he decided he wouldn't try to separate himself from his corporeal body any more...what I see there is his acceptance of the situat..."
I like Gemma with Garrett...Gemma is more serious and needs Garrett's silly personality to balance her. My opinion only. :-p
Ines, you can never write too much!
Wow, you guys always have such great answers and ideas. I think we may find a dark Charley in the next book. She has to been to hell and back and is still dealing with the aftermath. I can't wait to read book 4!
message 10: by Dana, Founder (new)
That would be a great hook up Neil and Gemma!
Mel wrote: "Traci wrote: "Ines wrote: "Well, Charley definitely grows because of her father, Reyes and her new found abilities. I guess most of the characters grow/change their way of thinking when they acknow..."
Mel, I hope to see Ubie and Cookie hook up!
message 12: by Mel (new)
Dana wrote: "Mel wrote: "Traci wrote: "Ines wrote: "Well, Charley definitely grows because of her father, Reyes and her new found abilities. I guess most of the characters grow/change their way of thinking when..."
Let's keep saying how great Ubie and Cookie would be together and maybe Darynda will hook them up. She reads these posts so we never know... ;-)
Candie wrote: "Yeah, I definitely think Charley has grown as a character since the first book. Especially after dealing with a tremendous amount of stress,pain and letdown in the third book. I am hoping to see he..."
Candie, I'm just going crazy with want for book 4.
Mel wrote: "Dana wrote: "Mel wrote: "Traci wrote: "Ines wrote: "Well, Charley definitely grows because of her father, Reyes and her new found abilities. I guess most of the characters grow/change their way of ..."
That's a great idea, Mel!
message 15: by Nawnee (new)
I think every character grows or changes in some way the third book was a big book for everyone even her biker friends had changing that went on. A lot of them just had to look at things and situations I think they were avoiding for way to long I just wish one of them had been charley telling her dad the truth
Nawnee wrote: "I think every character grows or changes in some way the third book was a big book for everyone even her biker friends had changing that went on. A lot of them just had to look at things and situat..."
Nawnee, I hope we see that happening in book 4.
message 17: by Candie (new)
I would like to see Cookie with Ubie too, but it would be funny to see what happens if she hooks up with Garrett. ;-)
Dana - I seriously can't wait for book 4! I will have to re-read the series a few more times to hold me over! LOL
Mel- Charley totally needs to figure her sh*t out. Hehe
Nawnee, thanks...I did not even think about the fact that Charlie did not tell her dad about what she is. I was just too mad at him to think. I forgot he is simply assuming based on what he has observed. I am still ticked but you put it in perspective some.
Candie wrote: "I would like to see Cookie with Ubie too, but it would be funny to see what happens if she hooks up with Garrett. ;-)
Dana - I seriously can't wait for book 4! I will have to re-read the series a..."
Am I the only person who thinks Garrett and Gemma would make a good couple? Garrett is a goof ball and Gemma is more of a perfectionist. I think they balance each other. Cookie and Garrett are both too silly. It is too one sided to me.
Garrett would actually be more my type than Reyes because I am more serious and am attracted to goof balls...I guess I am personalizing it too much. Sorry. :-(
message 20: by Traci (Mad Hatter Reads) (new)
Mel wrote: "Candie wrote: "I would like to see Cookie with Ubie too, but it would be funny to see what happens if she hooks up with Garrett. ;-)
Dana - I seriously can't wait for book 4! I will have to re-re..."
I can see Garrett with Gemma too Mel :)
Traci wrote: "Mel wrote: "Candie wrote: "I would like to see Cookie with Ubie too, but it would be funny to see what happens if she hooks up with Garrett. ;-)
Dana - I seriously can't wait for book 4! I will h..."
Glad I am not too off the wall, Traci. LOL Thanks! :-p
Mel wrote: "Traci wrote: "Mel wrote: "Candie wrote: "I would like to see Cookie with Ubie too, but it would be funny to see what happens if she hooks up with Garrett. ;-)
Dana - I seriously can't wait for bo..."
I can see them "smashing"!
Dana wrote: "Nawnee wrote: "I think every character grows or changes in some way the third book was a big book for everyone even her biker friends had changing that went on. A lot of them just had to look at th..."
I really hope she does but with what happened in the last book if it was me I'd be tempted to throw some things in his face when I was telling him like so you can use me when it suites you or your career but when it's of my own free will all bets are off?? and by the way you moron I'm the grimm reaper and I kinda have to do most of this stuff so stick that in your pipe and smoke it and probably storm off after stealing a bag of coffee of course. lmao
Nawnee wrote: "Dana wrote: "Nawnee wrote: "I think every character grows or changes in some way the third book was a big book for everyone even her biker friends had changing that went on. A lot of them just had ..."
Omg Nawnee, Charley stealing a bag of coffee as she storms off...lmao! I can see that!
I hope she tells dad off and tells him what's up in book 4.
message 25: by Mel (last edited Feb 23, 2012 03:26PM) (new)
I whole heartedly agree Nawnee. Charlie needs to tell her father what she is while she is putting him in his place...
Yep, Nawnee you have it so right, daddy needs to know. Can you imagine how he's going to feel, once he learns the truth?
I hope he feels like a major ass but i could see it going the other way too like him saying see that's why I put you in danger instead of someone blah blah then I'd be tempted to kick him lol
Nawnee wrote: "I hope he feels like a major ass but i could see it going the other way too like him saying see that's why I put you in danger instead of someone blah blah then I'd be tempted to kick him lol"
Let's remember ladies, he did marry the EVIL stepmother...something is not quite right.
yes that's an awesome point but i like to think just like the fairy tales he did it just so they'd have a mother and wasn't really in love with her.... hey maybe her evil colors didn't show until after the wedding
I do want to punch that woman in the face every time she's written in the story
Nawnee wrote: "yes that's an awesome point but i like to think just like the fairy tales he did it just so they'd have a mother and wasn't really in love with her.... hey maybe her evil colors didn't show until a..."
One would hope her true colors did not show...many men raise their kids on their own now a days. It is not easy, but it would be better than submitting your kid to cruelty. Nawnee, we all are going to gang up on her to teach her a lesson...
message 31: by Ines (new)
I have to stand a little for the stepmother, I think she is just freaked by Charley. She was ok with rising 2 kids of another person and apparently Gemma likes her so there has to be some good there as well. Of course I prefer to see her as witch.
Ines wrote: "Nawnee wrote: "yes that's an awesome point but i like to think just like the fairy tales he did it just so they'd have a mother and wasn't really in love with her.... hey maybe her evil colors didn..."
Maybe she is jealous...Charlie was always with her father helping him with his work. Charlie had more in common with her father than the stepmother. The stepmother clung to Gemma and did girly things to feel better. Just a thought...I still think it is aweful for Charlie's dad to allow the stepmother to ever treat her that way.
Yes she was okay with raising two kids as long as the fit into her happy little world, but Charley never did and as soon as she realized that Charley never would she just passed her over and focused all her attention on Gemma. But Darynda did say Denise was going to go to Charley for someone else (I'm assuming dad) in the future so maybe she's realizing that she screwed up and is trying to help. Even with that I don't know that she'll ever get in our good graces-she's hurt Charley for too long.
Yeah, she definitely didn't do a good job and it should be a crime to treat a child/teenager like that. Her father is the main one to blame here, he should have set the boundaries. Oh well, Charley did grow to be an amazing woman... she made Reyes lose his head hehe
Ines wrote: "Yeah, she definitely didn't do a good job and it should be a crime to treat a child/teenager like that. Her father is the main one to blame here, he should have set the boundaries. Oh well, Charley..."
You're so right Ines!
She did...Ines it is a miracle she got through her teen years intact. She is a strong, beautiful person. Do you think her experiences with so many ghosts and their life experiences helped mould Charlie into the woman she is today? Or was it simply her family?
I think men see things differently than women but I wouldn't let anyone treat my boys that way ever and I'm on my second husband and my oldest isn't his son but I made it clear that if he ever made me or Korbyn feel like Korbyn wasn't a full member of our family I would do some horrible things to him right before taking my boys and walking. But my husbands family fell in love with korbyn and they all even the extended family treat him like blood, and that's how it should be with anyones step family
Mel wrote: "Ines wrote: "Yeah, she definitely didn't do a good job and it should be a crime to treat a child/teenager like that. Her father is the main one to blame here, he should have set the boundaries. Oh ..."
I've always wondered about charley's sister in the first book it sounded like she was a step sister at first and then the more she's involved I was surprised she was full blood but there bond as sisters has def improved and I too wonder about her having some power being full blood with charley and if not where did charley get her power from??
Nawnee wrote: "I think men see things differently than women but I wouldn't let anyone treat my boys that way ever and I'm on my second husband and my oldest isn't his son but I made it clear that if he ever made..."
I applaud you Nawnee! Great mom award. :-)
Mel I think her experiences with the ghosts would have effected her since she gets to see and experience their lives. She had such a loving experience when her mother passed through when she was born she knows how much she loved her.
Nawnee I'm so glad your husbands family treat your son as part of the family! That's how it's supposed to be! My mom remarried when I was 14 and my brother was 16 and my step-grandparents were so loving and welcoming. My step-dads kids were 13-24 and we never bonded well. It was always us and them to the point where we stopped trying to do things as a whole family.
Nawnee wrote: "Mel wrote: "Ines wrote: "Yeah, she definitely didn't do a good job and it should be a crime to treat a child/teenager like that. Her father is the main one to blame here, he should have set the bou..."
Other than she was born with it...I may be totally wrong but I thought certain souls were chosen to become the grim reaper. Reyes had been searching for a particular one to open the gates for centuries. He fell in love with Charlie's soul immediately and refused to complete his work for his father. Someone please correct me if I am wrong or fill in the blanks.
Mel wrote: "Nawnee wrote: "Mel wrote: "Ines wrote: "Yeah, she definitely didn't do a good job and it should be a crime to treat a child/teenager like that. Her father is the main one to blame here, he should h..."
I think you're right Mel. There were lots of grim reaper souls but Charley's sparkled gold and that's what drew Reyes' attention. Then she was chosen to be born into the world and the Davidson family...I don't think any of them will have a power.
That golden glow made Charley unique among potential reapers even before she was born.
Mel wrote: "She did...Ines it is a miracle she got through her teen years intact. She is a strong, beautiful person. Do you think her experiences with so many ghosts and their life experiences helped mould Charlie into the woman she is today? Or was it simply her family?"
I'm with Traci, since she can feel what people passing through her feel and learn from their lives, I'm sure it helped. Specially thinking she only had contact with people that go to Heaven.. so she met a lot of kind souls and their families.
And yes, I don't think blood matters. It was just the body that the soul incarnated into as Mel says. And I think that's the main reason the angels are so scared of Reyes, because he was born to find a way to enter Heaven and even though he doesn't want to do it, I'm not sure if his whole nature cannot force him to "fulfil" what Satan wants. On the other hand, I'd gladly see him fighting against Hell troops along Charley! What a strong duo!
Traci wrote: "Mel wrote: "Nawnee wrote: "Mel wrote: "Ines wrote: "Yeah, she definitely didn't do a good job and it should be a crime to treat a child/teenager like that. Her father is the main one to blame here,..."
I am going to have to re-read the books. I do not remember her sparkling gold. I thought one of Reyes's powers is reading souls and he fell in love with her soul. Traci, I am having trouble remembering...I do not doubt you. :-)
Ines wrote: "Mel wrote: "She did...Ines it is a miracle she got through her teen years intact. She is a strong, beautiful person. Do you think her experiences with so many ghosts and their life experiences help..."
Ines, am I all gooey eyed and lovey-dovie? I must be reading the whole novel through "rose colored" glasses. I thought Reyes chose to be born as a human to grow up with Charlie because he wanted a life with her. He loves her. Am I misunderstanding everything?
I planned on taking a break from Bones and finally reading A Discovery of Witches this weekend. I have been waiting forever for the e-book price to go down. I may have to re-read these instead.
In the first book, Charley is describing what she sees inside Reyes and says: And then he saw me. As hard as I tried, I couldn't see myself through his eyes. All I saw was a thousand lights, identical in shape and form. But Reyes looked harder and saw one made of spun gold, a daughter of the sun, shimmering and glistening. She turned and saw him and smiled. And Reyes was lost.
But she also said that to her all lights looked the same... That's such a great scene.
Ines wrote: "In the first book, Charley is describing what she sees inside Reyes and says: And then he saw me. As hard as I tried, I couldn't see myself through his eyes. All I saw was a thousand lights, identi..."
I am definitely going to have to re-read. I remember that scene now. Thanks Ines! :-)
message 49: by Ines (last edited Feb 23, 2012 05:08PM) (new)
Mel wrote: "Ines, am I all gooey eyed and lovey-dovie? I must be reading the whole novel through "rose colored" glasses. I thought Reyes chose to be born as a human to grow up with Charlie because he wanted a life with her. He loves her. Am I misunderstanding everything? "
Oh, I see it like that as well! He even planned the family he wanted to be born so he could go to the same school as Charley. I just think that it may backfire on him and that's the reason why he wanted to kill his body. Now it looks like he's up to the challenge of protecting her... and I deeply believe he is in love with her! ;)
(PS: I wonder if at some point Charley will remember seeing Reyes as well when they were "floating"(?) around the Gates...)
You guys are right, he saw her soul, fell in love with her soul and decided to be born so they could grow up and then be together. Then it all fell apart when he was kidnapped.
Mel, it took me a while to get into A Discovery of Witches but once I did I loved it! I can't wait until the second one comes out. You'll have to tell me how you like it.
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