Doubt and Certainty
Adult School Teachers Set Up Students To School Adult School Teachers
I Keep Getting Owned By The English
I've blogged about it—Sons of Anarchy. Just basically spent around 100 hours over several weeks watching the thing, getting so absorbed I dreamed about it over and over, every night. Ever done that? Spend a chunk of your life so cut-off that you really can't explain it to anyone, but you have to see it to the end?
Sons of Anarchy is only a TV show. That much is true.
It's over-the-top drama, too. That much is true.
Unless you're a moron, the series that ran 7 seasons ought make you question some of your premises. If it didn't, you're dismissed. It's about the dryer lint in the whole thing. What comes way out in the wash.
How may times have I written "when seconds count, the cops are only minutes away?" In that way, it's much like The Wire. Cops are, and ought be always playing catchup with smart, organized "criminals." Why? Because there are laws. It's not a level playing field.
Chew on that opiate of masses, let me know what you think.
These guys don't call the cops, unless perhaps they're on payroll.
Anyway, this counts three times I've been owned by you Brit Wankers who think you can play an American:
Jamie Bamber (Apollo)
Hugh Laurie (House)
Charlie Hunnam (Jax)
Hugh, I knew he was English perhaps midway through the series. The other two, not a fucking single clue until it was all over and I dug into depth on what obsessed me.
You gentleman rock. How many American actors could truly fool the British?
Onlooker March 16, 2015 at 11:49
Every once in a while Charlie Hunnam's Brit comes through. I can't think of what words exactly right now, but there are a couple in particular where you can hear it.
But overall you're exactly right. He did a great job.
Ann March 19, 2015 at 07:07
I recently saw/heard somewhere that Charlie Hunnam said he was willing to do full-frontal nudity.
I'm holding my breath.
Rhonda March 16, 2015 at 12:24
How were all those Brits in "The Wire" for you?
Dominic West (Jimmy McNulty)
Idris Elba (Stringer Bell)
Aidan Gillen (Mayor Carcetti) (he's Irish)
Clark Peters (Lester Freamon) — no, he's not a Brit, he was born in New York City; but he left the US for England in the 70s, and pursued an acting career in that part of the world. (I've seen him, recently, on a couple of British television shows I watch.)
Wow, I had no idea. They certainly did a great job (and I loved The Wire). It's fascinating to me how some people pull this off so well.
Richard Nikoley March 16, 2015 at 12:41
Thanks Rohnda, for even more.
You know, I know Stinger couldn't complain because what comes around, but I was sorry to see him go.
As a man, I have no trouble seeing him as rather archetypical.
John March 16, 2015 at 13:10
I love the scene where McNulty goes undercover. A British actor playing an American cop going undercover as a British guy – makes the whole build up where he's struggling with the ridiculous English accent that much more enjoyable.
I think about Christian Bale doing interviews for Batman with an American accent to avoid consumer confusion. Or others, not necessarily British (Daniel Day Lewis, Hugh Jackman, Heath Ledger).
On the other side, I think Peter Dinklage does a great accent on Game of Thrones, especially given how well it fits in with the other actors on that show. Robert Downey Jr. sounds good in Sherlock.
Rob March 16, 2015 at 13:32
I can't look at Christian Bale's mouth when he's talking. It's just weird.
I don't know if you've watched "Boardwalk Empire", but the guy who played Al Capone is a Brit, too. He does a darn good acting, and accent, job.
On my list, but first I need to check out Orange/Black.
I hear Omar ends up on Boardwalk. Tom Naughton told me that.
Yes, Omar is on "Boardwalk Empire".
I would watch "Orange is the New Black" first, too. It's a little more entertaining than "Boardwalk Empire", and it's still going on, with the third season to be released in June (Netflix puts out all the episodes in one fell swoop.)
"Netflix puts out all the episodes in one fell swoop."
Yep, that's why I watched S3 of HOC in two days a couple of weeks ago. Better that way, for me.
The guy that plays Al Capone is a scouser (from Liverpool), it's even more unbelievable when you hear his real accent. It's pretty strong.
Back in the late 80s, I used to hang with a number of English and Ausie xpats, oil workers, and frequent visitors in Thailand. There was a couple of years where in total, i was there for 2-3 months, total.
I could understand everyone except one guy. Can't recall where he was from, but it was a "cockney" accent and I'll be damned if I could understand every 3rd word, and loud music in bars only made it harder. Spent a lot of time nodding my head.
el-bo March 17, 2015 at 09:37
>> The guy that plays Al Capone is a scouser (from Liverpool), it's even more unbelievable when you hear his real accent. It's pretty strong.
he's a great actor, and makes it so you can't look away for a second while he's on-screen
actually, one thing that 'boardwalk' did get right was these commanding characters that made the show – capone, agent nelson, chalky white (michael 'omar' williams), richard harrow, arnold rothstein and gyp rosetti. they made up for 'nucky' :)
What's way cool is the consummate skill of both Patrick Stewart and Anthony Hopkins, whose accents are so precisely refined that they don't really need to change it up much for any role.
Yea, Peter Dinklage is a great example of going the other way.
GOT was my springtime last, diversion. Had not seen it, only references. We got HBO and so I could stream it up here at the cabin. He's really my favorite character on the show…though seeing it so far, I'm not sure where else it has to go, unless it's all about Khaleesi, and who's going to complain about that? ;)
And, looks like HBO is going the way of divorce from fucking cable companies who want to sell you "bundles," 90% of which are of zero interest to most people.
I can't wait until internet is all wireless, many competitors, and people leave cable for both internet and TV (Netflix, APrime, Hulu+, HBO, etc.) in droves. And fuck pro sports too. They ought to have been offering up paid live service years ago, those worthless fucks. Probably involves contractual boundaries with the state monopolies.
They all deserve to go down, the "major networks" too. The most hated monopolists by favor of State in the country, and for good reason.
And check out this discussion. It's all about thoughtful programs, most of which show the cops and the cop infrastructure as just another color, just as corrupt. And at the same time, look at what's on the major networks? Cop glorifying show after cop glorifying show, for the brainless.
I was somewhere and there was an episode of Blue Bloods on TV. Wanted to puke. What a load of bollocks. Watched CSI back in the day because I liked Grissom, and it was always, ONLY, about the evidence. Stopped watching it shortly after CSI Miami came on board, with the ridiculous David "overactor" Caruso came on board. Yes, he was awesome in NYPD Blues (I'm a Hill Street Blues fan from way back college—Thursday nights were get-together for chips, salsa, salad, and Cheers and then HSB), but I have literally not seen him in a good role since.
…That's when cop shows were gritty and smart. So, the AMCs, FXs, HBOs, etc. get props.
Fuck fuck fuck the "major" networks for MAJOR fucktards: idiots, ignoramuses, patsies, clowns, pipsqueaks, wankers, regurgitators, morons, general brain dead.
…Oh, an don't even get me started on NCIS.
I was a Navy officer for 8 years and never heard of the thing—and I was the "legal officer" for 2 of 3 years on REEVES. 99% of all issues on board our ships were handled on our ships. Unit commanders have non-judicial punishment authority ("Captain's Mast") and that's were 99.99999999999999999% of stuff gets handled. And yet they have a most popular stupid show that has ZERO to do with anything Navy, and morons all over America, Land of the Moron, eat it up like a bunch of Fucktards.
I was sorry to see him go, too. But he sure did die well; he took it like a man.
Tatertot March 16, 2015 at 12:36
Andrew Lincoln, born Andrew Clutterbuck!
aka Rick Grimes, badass sheriff of Walking Dead.
A brit.
Now you've going too far. WD wasn't even on the table.
Paul, call your office. Yea, it's the British Invasion.
It's a real Clutterbuck, I tells ya!
Hey man, 1st I love that you comment on an Anarchy post.
You're usually more allegiance. :)
OTOH, Master Chiefs and Captains sometimes have to protect the troops. Anarchy.
…Anyway, counting the days. Heading off to Cabo next Saturday morning. I've got it all set up (Studio, by myself, ground floor). Meetings, & I'll be writing a whole travel guide for the customers. Gonna deliver pizza for lunch for the 6 girls and Hector, that make all the reservations happen for me.
I'll be blogging from there. It's what I love to do best.
While it is fun to look back, the whole getting through the airport, customs, and running the gauntlet of 'street coyotes' disguised as airport workers was the most frustrating part.
Within seconds of arrival on Mexican soil, you feel you are being scammed. I'd start the travel guide right there, right outside of customs.
I will say that getting to/from airport seemed the biggest hassle and least value. Must be an easier way.
Zero disrespect, but I always do that just as I did since 1985, going into countless ports the world over. For me, it's a given that these people aren't stealing from you, all collected in item lines on your pay stub, like in the "Land of the Free."
They gotta hustle. Sometimes, if in the mood, I'll listen. Sometimes I'll toss them coin or paper whether or not I buy anything—especially if I feel I'v been entertained.
What's really cool though, is that if I choose not to, it's not likely I'm going to be brought up on tax evasion charges, or any other euphemism.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I love all that stuff. It was just quite a strange intro to Cabo. After a long flight, then an hour getting through customs, it would be nice to know exactly what to do.
Helpful fellow travelers kept saying, 'don't talk to anyone until you get out of the airport'. But 'getting out of the airport' is like a 3 stage process. All you want is a reliable, reasonably priced ride to the hotel. Instead you are faced with wave after wave of locals wanting to sign you up for time share presentations, whale watching cruises, etc…
You'll see! Or maybe you've seen. Next time it will be no problem, and I'll probably have some fun with it.
I'm gonna have fun with it. I'll be by myself, just like it was back in the day.
First is I may pay a guy to film me having fun with all of it. Like you said, start my travel log right there. :)
Well, if your name is Clutterbuck, I think you just have to go with it.
Looked this up:
https://youtu.be/PhE0qdJT-Ek
Rick Grimes, out of character, explaining how he did it.
Maybe not your bag but the ones that got me were Michael Cutter in Law & Order and more recently the cheating couple in The Affair both being English.
I couldn't put my finger on whether the guy in The Affair was odd because he was an English actor playing an American or that was his character.
Remnant March 17, 2015 at 02:47
SOA was a fantastic show for the first four maybe five seasons. It tended to drag things out far longer than was dramatically necessary (key example is Clay's death, which — if Aristotle had been in charge — would have happened much earlier). They did this largely for ratings and also to give the writers time to think about what to plot next, but I found it grating.
The last two seasons truly descended into melodrama. I watched it out of a sense of duty and some fading hope that things would recover. Every episode of the last two seasons I had to beat down the voice in my head that was saying "You are watching a women's soap opera in which the protagonists happen to have facial hear wear leather!!"
Let me be clear: I am criticizing the show because I initially loved it so much. Not trying to be negative but my honest view is that it was a great show for four or so seasons. Not a mean accomplishment by any means, but neither was it the sustained attainment of excellence that Breaking Bad or The Shield managed over numerous seasons. Notably, many guys (and some gals) from The Shield were in SOA.
I do tend to agree with you. OTOH, watching it as I did, in about the space of a month at most might tend to blurr stuff all into one.
But yea, they tended to draw out all the Big Secrets…FOREVER.
First time I was pissed was when Clay didn't die at Opie's hand, recovered, caused a bunch more unnecessary shit (home break-ins).
The other thing that annoyed me (s7) was damn Jimmy Smitts' (whom I like and whose role starts out good) hand wringing agony, especially over Gemma, who I think looks like a skanky whore.
The most unrealistic thing about the entire series was the role of Gemma and how she held stupid shit together with implausible lies and secrets.
Haven't seen The Shield. How compared to The Wire?
i agree. i had to choke the last two/three seasons down like fish-oil, by way of justifying the time investment up until that point
too much soap-opera, too much 'payback'; too much about a group of posturing reprobates pretending like they actually stood for something, when really they ended up standing for nothing at all.
impossible to side with any of the characters by the end, save for wendy (and strangely 'juice)
it could have been really good
the show died with opie
what breaking bad did really well (not unlike many british shows) was know when to quit. they spin their wheels season-upon-season till the audience gets fed up, ratings drop, and the show gets cancelled (leaving a rush to salvage anything worthy of being called an ending)
i'd find it hard to recommend 'boardwalk' for similar reasons. some good reasons to enjoy, but just feels a bit hollow by the end. found 'justified' to be much more worthy of my time
BTW, check out House of Cards. Spacey plays the most deliciously evil villain ever. I put SOA on hold and blew through S3 of HOC in about 2 days.
Good points. Couldn't stand Wendy at first and thought her comeback after rehab was a bad distraction. But she came through as solid and sane in the end.
Didn't care for Juice much and thought his protection of Gemma was BS.
Yep, Opie was the grand character for me.
"I will not be commanded;
"I will not be controlled;
"And I won't let my future go on without the health of my soul."
I also liked Chibs. Just enough conscience, just enough outlaw, just enough loyalty.
hoc is on my list. still need to catch up with the second seasons of 'utopia' (the excellent english thriller, not the u.s reality show)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01VGtX9xfh0
and 'orphan black'
and 'homeland'
and……..and…………
Strangely enough, I only mildly cared about Jax. Too wishy-washy. At first I did like his reflections and torment over his dad's writings. Some of the best parts of the show where it was not only about the outlaw, but the core ethics over how that's done.
Someone needs to do a montage of all the times Jax looks someone in the eye and solemnly says, "I promise."
No spoilers, but you have to have watched HOC to get most of this:
http://youtu.be/wcR_kVqvL-g
i think my interest in wendy (drea matteo) stems back to her character in 'the sopranos'. i was rooting for her to get it together through the whole thing
i agree to an extent about chibs
juice was a strange one, because his plight (that of being torn between loyalties), and how he was breaking down, seemed so genuine as to pull my sympathy. throughout the last season he was so aware of the hopelessness of his situation, and he just seemed to surrender to it (always with that great smiling-with-tears thing). he was the only one that made me forget the bad shit he'd done, and hope it would work out for him
Problem for me with Juice is that I found the entire storyline concerning his father's race highly implausible.
I mean, typically, you have to physically torture these guys to rat, or give any info to the cops, and he does it because his dad is black, and as Chibs pointed out, not any official paperwork…and then they make a big deal at the end to change an "unwritten by-law," and induct a black guy, all in order to make good on a story line that ought to have hit the 13″ file the minute the writers offers it up.
>> Strangely enough, I only mildly cared about Jax
yeah, though i actually hated him long before the end. i don't think he deserved the ending he got
really thought he was going to turn it around.
the last time i think i had any 'faith' in his character was during that scene where he follows the couple who adopted his son. beautiful choon (sun kill moon – alesund), and my favourite scene of the entire thing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4Rty7iiHQU
There you go, man.
It was his redemption opportunity, but the show must go on, I guess. Tragic and sad, and him setting the mom's body alongside dad on the bed was tender and heart-wrenching–as though he knew that his son's best shot was dead.
Oh, the music. Brilliant on levels. In fact, the "Requiem for Opie" sent me to iTunes, and I ended up buying up all the music, like 6 albums, about 70 songs.
Here's what's funny. I told Bea I did that and set it up to play them all on a Sunday afternoon a coup,e of weeks ago. She thought it was all going to be metal and stuff, but she loved almost all of it.
Makes a fabulous play list.
>> Problem for me with Juice is that I found the entire storyline concerning his father's race highly implausible.
i had given up looking for much sense by that point. i also think that much of what i felt for juice by the end was in the actor's portrayal – there seemed to be real' emotion there, which stood in stark contrast to everyone else with their posturing and bad-man-gang-face™. i also appreciated smits' character who, though no stranger to the gangster life, really struggle with just how fucked up samcro were
haha…the show even made me hate whiny-pants unser
>> Makes a fabulous play list.
might have to check it out
oops, doesn't look like i quoted you at all.
Yea, get this. Here you have Nero and Unser wringing hands over poor bitch-cunt-skank Gemma, and it takes her own son to pop her in the head like she deserved in about season 3 or 4.
But, I think she's the IRL wife of the craator, Otto, at least that's what I recall from a Terry Gross interview of her on Fresh Air a few years back.
When I initially began watching SOA, I kept expecting her to say, "oh, c'mon, Al."
Here's that Katey Segal interview about the show, from 2013:
http://www.npr.org/2013/09/06/219291481/katey-sagal-holding-court-on-sons-of-anarchy
Jimmy Smits character was a travesty: I'm sorry but if someone can find me a single real life Hispanic ex-gangster male who is 1/10th the pussy his character was, I'll buy him a steak dinner. Sorry: Hispanic men are macho and tough even when its a put on. Smit's character really made me cringe on his behalf.
Also, while I'm in rant mode, another pet peeze (which the Smits thing is also a reflection of) was the escalating descent into political correctness: they make a "brutha" a Son in the last episode or two. Please, spare me. The biggest politically correct travesty, however, was the sacrifice of Bobby because Jax "gave his word" to some two-bit black ex-junkie and her son. Go back in the series: see how often Jax "keeps his word" when a Son's life is on the line or even when a club interest is on the line. Why here then? To show that Jax (and by implication the writers and producers) love black people. One last example: Walton Goggins' role as a trannie was very well done and provided some excellent comic relief when keep within a certain realistic boundary (and when you Goggins in The Shield, the joke will seem even bigger), but it too descended into (politically correct) farce in the last episodes with Tig constantly in his/her arms.
But: I promise, I loved the show!! lol
As for The Shield, I honestly consider it one of the best shows ever. It is intense, with amazing human drama and characterization. For an anarchist and critic of government like yourself, I think you will appreciate the role that corruption and "good intentions" play as a prelude to downfall and tragic hubris. At the same time, it is interesting that the "corrupt" cop Vic would probably agree wholeheartedly with Richard's view of cops as just another gang enforcing its territory. In a sense, Vic is only corrupt if you buy into the assumptions of the System. On another level, he isn't corrupt at all: he's an anarchist beholden to no central power who is looking out for his community: the people he knows and loves. Michael Chiklis as Vic is a truly outstanding and unforgettable performance. For my money, the series keeps up the intensity, interest and quality through to the very last frame of the final season 7.
And speaking of good, and realistic Hispanic characters, Benito Martinez's Davic Aceveda in The Shield is a much more believable and — to use the buzzword — authentic character than the Jimmy Smits character in SOA. Likewise, CCH Pounder's Claudette Whims is much better than the similar (really derivative role) she is put into in SOA.
Honestly, I didn't try very hard with the Wire. Watched a few episodes and didn't get hooked. Many people have said you need to make it through season 1 before you really get snagged. Maybe part of me didn't want to commit to such a long series, so I was just as happy to leave it alone for now.
Totally agree on the music (and the accompanying filmography that usually went with the music at the end of episodes). I don't usually go in for that kind of thing, but with SOA, I ended up looking forward to it, it was so well done. The "music videos" at the end of most episodes were almost like a trance-inducing kind of meditation. Very well done. I had meant to buy some of the music for that very reason. With Richard's reminder of this, I'll do so.
"One last example: Walton Goggins' role as a trannie was very well done and provided some excellent comic relief when keep within a certain realistic boundary (and when you Goggins in The Shield, the joke will seem even bigger), but it too descended into (politically correct) farce in the last episodes with Tig constantly in his/her arms."
I'm so glad you brought that up. First, yea, over-the-top performance, which is the point.
Trig's unconventianality was an undercurrent. Remember when Jax and his half sister were just bout to get dirty in Belfast? Jax tells Gemma: "another minute and I'd be in Trig territory."
It was still funny and enjoyable when they drugged the fatass and had Venus pop in, and you could tell Trig was enamored.
Thing is, there really is no homosexual, heterosexual, or anything like that. We're all sexual. And we exist on a spectrum, a Bell Curve, as are most distributions of random sorts of things. So, there are sexual beings that are hard one way, hard an opposite way, in the middle, but that's just about thoughts.
In terms of actions, it's not a Bell Curve at all, and that's likely because it's superimposed by various levels of conditioning and expectation.
Wanna know if you're really gay or not? Masturbate over some gay/les, taboo, forbidden fantasy. If, when you "come," you feel real ecstasy, connection, longing, then got for that. If not, and in the converse, you do, then go for that…and look for a partner that could go either way. :)
…Just another self experimentation update. :)
Robert Lindsay, who writes on a vast range of topics, has probably posted more on this issue than anyone. For those interested, here is a link to get you started:
https://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2014/12/08/what-does-it-mean-when-someone-says-they-are-bisexual/
That's not why I read Lindsay, but its there for those who want it….
Yea, that article makes a lot os sense.
Ron White has a good stand up bit too, about heterosexual porn and being aroused by a big hard cock. Funny.
natty March 17, 2015 at 14:54
Following SOA live the last few seasons was rough at many points. Outside of feeling a duty to see the story through, there were just enough moments(episodes) that would recapture the magic, I would find myself giving a pass to all the nonsense.
Boardwalk was a solid show. I have no complaints.
The Wire has been fantastic-a handful of episodes into the last season now. At times the slow pacing, small character details/development, mannerisms/behavior authentic to physical location, and the true city vibe + music, are what I really enjoyed about Treme.
Larry March 18, 2015 at 06:44
The one guy who shocked the hell out of me was Damian Lewis who played Major Richard Winters in HBO's Band of Brothers and is currently playing Nicholas Brody in the Showtime show Homeland.
You could have knocked me over with a feather when I first heard him interviewed and I heard a British accent.
I know the feeling. That's what happened when I'd been glued to House for a couple of seasons and heard him interviewed. Same with Apollo on Battlestar Galactica.
One other thing and I have wanted to tell you this for a long time but never did: thank you for your blog. I truly enjoy it and find it both enlightening and entertaining. I wish you the best of luck in all of your future endeavors. Now back to lurking.
>> "I know the feeling. That's what happened when I'd been glued to House for a couple of seasons and heard him interviewed"
so funny !! hugh laurie sounded more english than anyone i'e ever known. then he goes and fools all of you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHtjl8V483A&index=12&list=RDvOMqfx5Ers4
Larry:
Means a lot to me. Just this morning I was thinking how this ought go since I'm so very disillusioned, but yet invested in the paleo paradigm.
I'll just write what I think, about everything. What else can I do?
Cool. Obviously it is your blog and I think the most beautiful part about it is that you are genuine and are completely yourself. I believe the sincerity with which you write is why people read it. You don't concern yourself and hand wring over the things you write ("boy, I better not write that because people won't like it or they will kick me out of the "club""). You kind of remind me of a Holden Caulfield on the look out for phonies.
Going forward you owe no one anything but to continue being yourself and if that means not blogging so be it. Anyways, enough rambling from me. Good luck with whatever you do and peace.
P.S. A buddy at work used the phrase "twat punch" today and I laughed my ass off for ten minutes. It might be a good one to add to your repertoire.
Blank Reg March 21, 2015 at 20:33
There are "murricans" who can do a Brit accent more than passably.
Peter Dinklage and Catherine Heigl come to mind. Jillian Anderson also did a decent job recently in The Fall.
Hell, I've been working on it myself, and my Brit friends are pleased I'm making good headway (but I'm not an actor and thereby do not count).
But Brit actors far outnumber their Yank counterparts in the accent category. Is it because most of us are so untraveled?