Doctor Doom #9 "The Windmills of My Mind" REVIEW and SPOILERS
Thread: Doctor Doom #9 "The Windmills of My Mind" REVIEW and SPOILERS
Latverian ambassador
Latverian Embassy
When last we left "our hero", Doom had regained the throne and violently annexed neighboring Symkaria. Now we finally get back to the impending disaster of the black hole that resulted from the destructive sabotage of the Antlion project on the Moon. Sometimes one almost forget that this is still out there hanging around in the void like the mythical Sword of Damocles. This black hole seems to have been simmering for over a year but then that's because of this story was in limbo due to the pandemic. But it did kill the suspense to a great degree and one loses the sense of their being this huge crisis. I guess we'll never know why this title was one of the last to be revived when things started loosening up.
Doom normally presents himself as being supremely confident and he is secure in knowing his solution will work perfectly. He expects that this act along with a vow to cast aside this life of villainy that he will be universally acclaimed and then rule the world. Same goal, different attitude. "I will atone and then I will be loved". But surprisingly he doesn't plan to take over right off. He plans to follow the example of the other Victor on the parallel Earth seen in these visions that have been haunting him throughout the story. He will agree to a sentence of solitary confinement to atone for his nefarious past misdeeds
But the most entertaining section of the book by far is the misguided attempt by Reed to tell Victor that he has faith in Victor's solution to the expanding black hole. The dialog pages between them is hilarious and tragic at the same time. It shows just how deeply embedded Doom's insecurities are since Reed criticized that gateway to the Netherworld he constructed back in college. In spite of Reed's assurances to the contrary, Victor is still thinking back to that day when Reed stood in his dorm and said he needed to check his calculations again. Doom finally just violently cuts off the transmission from Reed and starts to get busy changing things .His doubts start to take over and things start to go off the rails. It looks like the black hole blows up but we'll have to wait and see how that turns out. I'm sure since all the titles haven't come to an abrupt halt that the Earth survives but I wonder if Reed will step in to save the day, or maybe by sheer luck Doom's plan works anyway.
For the curious: I like how Cantwell does give us some interesting chapter titles to each issue and I'm sure many will be puzzled by "The Windows of My Mind". It comes from an Oscar winning song "The Windows of Your Mind" from the Thomas Crown Affair....the Steve McQueen original. Here's one of the verses. Kind of reminds one of the labyrinth mind of Doom
Like a tunnel that you follow to a tunnel of its own
Down a hollow to a cavern where the sun has never shone
Like a door that keeps revolving in a half forgotten dream
Or the ripples from a pebble someone tosses in a stream
Like a clock whose hands are sweeping past the minutes of its face
And the world is like an apple whirling silently in space
Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind
Last edited by Iron Maiden; 11-25-2020 at 12:26 PM.
the older Doctor Doom Appreciation Thread at CBR Forums
Victor von Doom: Doctor Doom appreciation 2018 thread
Victor von Doom: Doctor Doom Appreciation 2019
Originally Posted by Iron Maiden
Doom normally presents himself as being supremely confident and he is secure in knowing his solution will work perfectly. He expects that this act along with a vow to cast aside this life of villainy that he will be universally acclaimed and then rule the world. Same goal, different attitude. "I will atone and then I will be loved". But surprisingly he doesn't plan to take over right off. He plans to follow the example of the other Victor on the parallel Earth seen in these visions that have been haunting him throughout the story.
For the curious: I like how Cantwell does give us some interesting chapter titles to each issue and I'm sure many will be puzzled by "The Windows of My Mind". It comes from an Oscar winning song "The Windows of Your Mind" from the Thomas Crown Affair....the Steve McQueen original. He's one of the verses. Kind of reminds one of the labyrinth mind of Doom
Like the circles that you find in the windmills of your mind!
The late, great Michel Legrand was one of my favorite film composers. And the Windmills of Your Mind was one of my favorite songs of his.
Originally Posted by Albert1981
I liked his work too! I was surprised to see it referenced here. I think I first remember his work on the TV movie "Brian's Song" I think that is still a popular bit of theme music even today.
Brian's Song is very pretty. Even though he was French, Legrand was obviously heavily influenced by American jazz. You can clearly hear it in his scores. Modern film composers are less influenced by jazz today. But I would have to say my all-time favorite composition of his is the one from Summer of '42. That one was amazing! When Doom enters the MCU, he needs a theme all for himself. None of the themes for the current MCU characters have been particularly noteworthy. They're pretty good and getting better, but I find them mostly forgettable. I believe in the power of music to tell stories. I didn't use to think that way, but now I understand how music can powerfully engage emotions in storytelling. Thanks for reminding me of Brian's Song.
Last edited by Albert1981; 11-25-2020 at 01:12 PM.
You're welcome. I agree about the MCU scores...most of them don't stick in my mind. The one score that I always will remember in superhero films is Danny Elfman's "Batman." Doom needs something dark and epic like that.
Revolutionary_Jack
Some of the most brilliant pages I've seen in a comic lately.
Doctor Doom #9 -- Doom Reed pettiness 01.jpg
JudicatorPrime
The Cosmic Shores of the Pacific
But the most entertaining section of the book by far is the misguided attempt by Reed to tell Victor that he has faith in Victor's solution to the expanding black hole. The dialog pages between them is hilarious and tragic at the same time. It shows just how deeply embedded Doom's insecurities are since Reed criticized that gateway to the Netherworld he constructed back in college. In spite of Reed's assurances to the contrary, Victor is still thinking back to that day when Reed stood in his dorm and said he needed to check his calculations again. Doom finally just violently cuts off the transmission from Reed and starts to get busy changing things .His doubts start to take over and things start to go off the rails.
That entire back and forth was disturbing on many levels, considering we're talking about two of the greatest intellects, leaders, strong willed and presumably psychologically balanced individuals on the planet behaving that way in a crisis. Oddly enough, it brought to mind the type of argument that I used to have with one of my more insecure ex-girlfriends. If I was completely unfamiliar with Reed or Victor, I would speculate that the two had been lovers at one point. I've only ever seen people with deep emotional or physically intimate history be that easily triggered and to that magnitude.
It looks like the black hole blows up but we'll have to wait and see how that turns out. I'm sure since all the titles haven't come to an abrupt halt that the Earth survives but I wonder if Reed will step in to save the day, or maybe by sheer luck Doom's plan works anyway.
Place your bets now on how the moon gets fixed. I'm going with Uatu or Ulana the Watchers -- or their still as yet unnamed kid, who is Blue Marvel's "godchild" -- playing a role, with time travel being my second pick.
By the way, I think Victor was right to speed things up. Time slows near the event horizon of a black hole due to super-gravitational forces. Light or energy reflected off of mirrors from a source outside of the event horizon would land at a different rate than the same light hitting the moon if there wasn't a black hole.
Last edited by JudicatorPrime; 11-25-2020 at 01:32 PM.
You've been jogging my memory a LOT today. I completely forgot about Elfman's Batman score! That was a great one. Especially the build-up in it. Thanks again for the remainder. I do think Doom needs a theme that respects the epic history of his character. I don't think the MCU should emulate John Williams's "Imperial March" that was written for Darth Vader. I don't think it's fair for any modern composer to compete with a classic like that one. I wouldn't go the "martial" music route with Victor. But I'm curious about HOW the MCU will introduce Doom into the movies/shows. Will it be as a sorcerer? Or as a scientist? Because music for fantasy and science fiction can be VERY different. One thing I think Disney should do is rely a little bit less on electronic music (which I DO like a LOT), and start paying more orchestras to perform the music. Lord knows they can afford it. For Doom I would use LOTS of horns, strings and percussion.
Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime
I think that's exactly what Cantwell is bringing out here. He hinted as much in the interview where he talks about what he would like to do in a second arc. Doom never got over how he failed in Reed's eyes in their college days. Over the years, that incident has morphed into a successful experiment that Reed didn't understand because the formulae was intermixed with mystic symbols. We see in other stories like Brubaker's Books of Doom that Doom did pierce the veil into the Netherworld and encountered his mother's trapped soul. Yet I don't think Victor told Reed that part. There has been AU's were the relationship is much different. I have to look it up but I am pretty sure that Hickman had an AU that Earth that implied that Victor and Reed were really close friends. That Earth was wiped out by Thanos and his Cabal. Reed and Victor were the last two defenders and they were doing well until Reed got killed. After that, that Victor just gave up fighting and got killed by the Cabal. Made me wonder if Hickman was suggesting they were more intimate in their relationships that just colleagues
I'm glad you understand that....astrophysics is out of my league! It will be interesting to see how this winds up in just one issue. It's a shame now that we know that Cantwell was only given the 10 issues to wind up his story when this title was originally promoted as a new ongoing at last year's SDCC. I don't know if you read my other post in the Doom thread but he has a really mind blowing idea for his second arc, if he gets a chance. I'm hoping he will.
I agree with that. I used to have a lot of albums and one of my favorites had a compilation of scores by Korngold, or Franz Waxman... there was a suite done of the creation scene from Bride of Frankenstein but I forget the conductor's name on the album.
I'm going to throw another movie score at you and maybe you are familiar with it. The last two movies that Bernard Herrmann scored were Taxi Driver and Brian DePalma's romantic thriller "Obsession". Both were nominated for Academy Awards in 1976 and Jerry Goldsmith's "The Omen" won, maybe because the vote was split. Sometimes when I go back and play the opening to "Obsession" I think it would be the kind of score if they ever did do a Doom solo (maybe streaming ) that covered his origin is the sort of mood I would imagine for the score.
MagSeven
Currently MagSeven
Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack
I love how I can read the same scene separately from both of their perspectives and they can both end up looking like pompous dicks. Really liked this issue.
Totally agree. For someone who hasn't worked in the comics medium for long he has a strong grasp of the ideas he wants to put across. IMO he brings out the best in Larocca too. Working in the film medium is a good foundation I would think. JMS adapted to comics very well too IMO. They both aren't all about the characters slugging it out....they delve into the characters.
Originally Posted by MagSeven
You know, you're right. And that is the beauty of that scene. Either Reed doesn't have a clue how he is coming across, knowing Doom as long as he has he is being passive/aggressive and getting under his skin deliberately. Reed should have left the good luck wishes for Cap. Doom would have accepted them from him at face value I would think.
The entire five page sequence is amazing for characterization. It's one thing to be told "character is his own worst enemy" or to throw words like "cognitive dissonance" and so on, but it's quite another to show that play out in real-time panel-to-panel. In movies and TV, actors can make it work. But in these five panels you see Doom understandably, and blindly, making a dumb mistake entirely rooted in character. You see how his mistakes are all an extension of him. He marches in with Doombots who he controls and do not talk back to him...so there's no one around him to check him and rein him in from doing something self-destructive. You have his thought process where he thinks that after doing this big heroic thing he will turn himself in and become a good guy...and right here you see the undoing of that, that sense of regression, that inability to change.
Cantwell goes 9-Panel Grid for those two scenes where he and Reed talk...9-Panel is of course associated with Alan Moore and Watchmen, which is of course all about the psychology of characters shown on panel in real-time. Break it down panel by panel and you can see Doom escalating bit by bit. It really does prove what the artist Kevin O'Neill once said, he said that the action scenes are nowhere as difficult as the character moments, the dialogues, the body language...how a character holds a teacup was the example he used.
And it's like it's so sad and obvious what's going to happen.
I think there's an ambiguity in that. Like I don't think even Reed fully understood why he had to commend Victor and be nice to him, or fully appreciate the meaning of making that exchange.
I don't think Reed deliberately said that to rile up Victor and blow up the experiment. I don't think that's it. And I hope they never spell this out when this stuff gets referred to again. I think it's a kind of subconscious thing. This isn't people behaving rationally, you know. It's the inner natures of these characters reacting and combusting like a chemical reaction.
And it's a great human moment.
It certainly is....and I see what you are saying. With Reed, it could be that he isn't even aware of how annoying he is in Doom's POV. But Reed has had a checked past. The early Stan & Jack Reed wasn't always a likeable guy. Towards the end of the run when Reed became a family man, they did soften that. Then fast forward to the time when he and Hank Pym got into when Reed haughtily claimed to know more about Pym particles than he did.
For Doom's part, it is very important for him to want to get this right. Cantwell has been putting him through the ringer at times....he was briefly dead after a shot to the head. I am disappointed that it looks like that the deal with Mistress Death is going to end up being one of those annoying "danglers"
The only thing I know about Korngold is the Love Theme Suite from the Adventures of Robin Hood. That was a fantastic piece of music. I will have to look up the score for Obsession on YouTube. Thanks for the recommendation. Hermann did a lot of great work with Hitchcock. It's funny that you mention Jerry Goldsmith. He's the dude who sort of got me interested more in movie music. He scored for the somewhat forgotten film A Patch of Blue, and after watching that great movie I started to pay WAY more attention to the music in movies. I liked how he used electric guitars and harmonicas in that film. But my favorite score of all-time has to be Ennio Morricone's PERFECT Cinema Paradiso soundtrack. It's so romantic, nostalgic and bittersweet. It's flawless. Unfortunately, that kind of music would never work for Doom. He's just not that kind of fella. I like the fact that Doom, Magneto and Ultron don't really have much time for love interests. Particularly, I like the fact that Doom is a little bit like author Jack Kerouac. Kerouac was extremely devoted to his mother and claimed that she was the only woman he ever truly loved. I think Victor would understand that sentiment perfectly. I hope they show that relationship in the MCU movies/shows. There are WAY too many characters with "daddy issues" in the MCU. I would LOVE to have an A-List character like Doom have a strong MATERNAL influence on him. Again, I'm gonna listen to your Obsession recommendation. It sounds so good! Look, the MCU is doing just fine without standout musical soundtracks, but I will be somewhat disappointed if Victor doesn't get his own amazing theme. And I don't mean using popular and/or classical music already available in the public domain. It has to belong to him alone. Just like the Imperial March belongs to Darth Vader alone.
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