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from the it-wasn't-my-fault dept
Fri, May 11th 2007 7:46pm — Carlo Longino
There seems to be a growing trend in the UK of people suspending their common sense when they get in a car and turn on GPS navigation units. There are people driving off cliffs and through flooded roads and taking detours that span half of England, apparently at the behest of their navigation units. Things got so bad in one place that authorities even had to put up "ignore your sat nav" signs. Now, a woman's car got hit by a train, and for some reason, she's blaming a GPS navigation unit. She says the device led her "right into the path of a speeding train": she was driving to her boyfriend's house, using the GPS for directions, when she came up to a metal gate with a red circle on it, marked with a "little sign saying, if the light is green, open the gates and drive through." She doesn't say whether or not the light was green, just that she opened the gate, drove through, got out to shut the gate and heard a train coming, then she realized she was standing on a train crossing. She got out of the way, but the train hit her car and carried it for half a mile. She says she "can't completely blame" the GPS unit -- but it's not clear why the GPS is to blame at all. First, you'd imagine that one would be cognizant enough of their surroundings to realize when they were at a railroad crossing. Second, if it wasn't obvious enough, isn't the problem really inadequate signage or a lack of other safety equipment? Of course, it's easier to put the blame on the GPS, since it can only answer back by saying, "Left turn in 400 yards," rather than own up to your own fault.
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IronChef, 11 May 2007 @ 8:23pm
"The SatNav device drives my car... Not me"
I ran into this once as well. The problem is that the source for the GeoData polygons(in the US- TIGER) is a Census function and only generated once every few years..
SatNav is really just an automated map, and like any good map, should be replaced whenever a new update comes out...
But the driver still is ultimately in control of the car. (duh) O
Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2007 @ 9:59pm
Re: "The SatNav device drives my car... Not me"
There are commercial vendors like NAVTEQ and TeleAtlas that have better, independent data and update their data quarterly. Direct use of TIGER data is quite rare these days.
UDrive, 14 May 2007 @ 9:51am
In the US the data is NOT TIGER data from the Census Bureau. The TIGER data is completely unsuited for SatNAv as it is not positionally accurate nor does it contain turn restrictions information. It is supplied by NAVTEQ or Tele Atlas who supply the maps for the European SatNav applications as well.
...but your Honor, the GPS told me to turn right, it didn't say the old lady was going to be crossing the street!
the court finds these people, ignorant as charged. enough said.
At some point someone is going to sue google for giving directions to "Swim across the Atlantic" when they want directions from the US to Europe.
They do actually tell you to swim it. That's hilarious!
Dan Callahan, 14 May 2007 @ 9:35am
I love the fact that it calculated the most efficient route for me so I'd (I assume) have to swim the shortest distance. Very thoughtful of them, really.
In the UK, I imagine it would say "Left turn in 400 meters", not "yards." ;)
Anonymous Coward, 12 May 2007 @ 2:04am
Re: Metres and Yards.
In Britain they often have an option for either metres or yards, since we use both. However, all road signs are still in yards and miles. In mainland europe I would expect them to use metres and kilometres since this is what the road signs are in.
Alan, 12 May 2007 @ 9:26am
Re: Metres??? In the UK???
Not only do we not measure in metres, we negotiaited to keep our pounds and ounces, not to mention the pound Sterling!!!
Please don't make the mistake of thinking of us as Europeans......
Anonymous Coward, 13 May 2007 @ 12:21am
Surprisingly, in the UK, we are told to turn left in 400 yards, not metres. Our satnavs also say "Bloody hell you tosspot, you missed a turning!"
No, we use miles and yards.
I amagine you're a tard, thanks for playing.
No results for "amagine". Please try again.
In the UK they use yards!!!
Anonymous Coward, 11 May 2007 @ 10:25pm
Anyone who puts 100% faith in technology is just plain stupid or ignorant, and is asking asking for trouble. Its a great enabler, but only as smart as the programmer...
As smart as the programmer? Guess programmers do that kind of stuff all the time then.
You can put faith in technology, you just have to use common sense.
oh and i laughed @ the people driving off cliffs
|333173|3|_||3, 12 May 2007 @ 2:42am
Re: Re: Metres and Yards
Road signs are required constitutionally to be marked in yards and miles. THis is one of the few exceptions to the EU-wide use of the metric system, ont of hte others beig the sale of beer in the UK by Imperial pint, which is required by the Magna Carta.
Anyone who cannot identify a railway line as such sould not be driving a car. The marking of a red spot on the gate is used as a warning, and the warning light, if present, should have been more than sufficent warning. If it was an unsingalled crossing, there was almost certainly a telephone by the gate, which she could have used to check for approaching trains (I am fairly sure that in the absence of a manually-controlled crossing, there has to be a telephone to contact the responsible signal box. This should be present on all public railway crossings, from AHB (automaic half barrier) crossings to ungated rural lanes. Only private occupation crossings, which are provided for landowners to have access accross the line, would not need one, but sicne at occupation crossings the gate opens away from the line and is on a private driveway or farm track, she should not have been on it.
Well, if you're stupid enough to ask for directions between two places not linked by land, if there is no ferry, what can it do?
Bobshaker, 12 May 2007 @ 2:58am
Are people really so ridiculously stupid? Technology is a convenience. It is to support your intelligence and common sense not replace your brain.
Kitobor, 12 May 2007 @ 3:02am
Do people blame the map when they take a wrong turn? No.
Do they blame the computer when their data gets deleted? Yes.
This is just a case of people blaming elec-trickery and assuming that a GPS system is somehow different to a map.
It is not infallible because it is a machine.
If the GPS tells you to turn left you still check that it is safe to turn, that the road actually exists, that a fallen tree has not blocked your path etc....
Stupid humans.
People really don't drive cliffs do they? I hope for the sake of this planet that there aren't people who have done that. Anonymous, I checked Google Maps and it DOES tell you to swim across the Atlantic. I couldn't stop laughing for a whole minute. I got this picture of Forrest Gump running up to the Ocean, jumping in and swimming to Europe in my head.
JB, 12 May 2007 @ 5:33am
Re: Bobshaker
See, I actually hope they DO drive off the cliffs for the sake of the planet. :P In fact, it should be part of a driver's exam. Set them up in a car with GPS that instructs the driver to drive off a cliff and see if they do it. It's like cleaning leaves out of the gene pool.
Drukas, 12 May 2007 @ 9:30am
Re: Re: Bobshaker
I find that idea both hilarious and quite appealing.
I love that image!
Stupidity has always been a capital crime, enforced by nature without appeals.
Lonny Paul (profile), 12 May 2007 @ 3:47am
Technology Dependence Still Requires Common Sense
I am not surprised whatsoever that this fatalities are happening in the UK -- probably the world over -- as people rely more on GPS devices. People I know use them in areas where they are well aware where they are going - why?
Technology is an aid. Do not make it a crutch.
(But my Treo didn't tell me it was time...)
Old Guy, 12 May 2007 @ 4:55am
I still can't fold my GPS system back up correctly...
Fred Flint, 12 May 2007 @ 5:34am
Survival of the Unfit?
If that lady had actually stayed in the car until the train hit it - and assuming she hadn't had children yet - it would be a perfect example of modern evolution in action.
darkdancer, 12 May 2007 @ 5:46am
wish we had it then
in the early nineties we used to drive around the m25 waiting for our (then very boxy) mobiles to ring, letting us know when and where the rave was to be held. now it's easy. open air festival by gps.
blar, 13 May 2007 @ 12:17am
Re: wish we had it then
Hoeppner, 12 May 2007 @ 7:39am
a suspension of her license in the only logical step.
recently in the uk
a woman drove her brand new merc into a river. This was widely reported in the national newspapers as a SatNav fault. But the thing is... she drove down a single lane dirt farm track that was clearly sign posted as a No Through Road. What was going thru her head? 'This road's a bit narrow'? 'These brambles are taking all the paint off'? ' Oh f**k it's a river'? !!!
casey, 12 May 2007 @ 1:52pm
...... logically
given this level of stupidity... I think you are given them way too much credit assuming that they were using the GPS correctly in the first place
heavyw8t, 12 May 2007 @ 2:17pm
I am still trying to figure out why she needed GS to go to her boyfriend's house, a place I assume she had been many times before.... I don't need GPS to get to work.....
Steve, 13 May 2007 @ 9:37am
From the BBC article:
Paula Ceely, was driving her Renault Clio from Redditch, Worcestershire, to see her boyfriend at his parents' home in Carmarthenshire for the first time.
She wasn't going to her boyfriend's home, she was going to meet his parents.
jack, 12 May 2007 @ 5:16pm
"she's blaming a GPS navigation unit" click this link and you will see that the once vaunted BBC is clearly in the mainstream of today's journalism.
Justine, 12 May 2007 @ 5:51pm
Printed Data Can Be Wrong Too
We've had problems in California with printed maps, specifically freeway overpasses and bridges with heights that were incorrectly measured or recorded. Oops. I remember in one instance the trucker involved proved that he'd relied on state-funded road data, and it wasn't his fault that the truck got stuck under an overpass that hadn't been measured right in the first place.
Darkdancer, 12 May 2007 @ 6:48pm
Urban Myth
I met a bloke in a pub, whos mate new someone who had a job driving around europe mapping all the tiny back roads that don't show up on ordance survey maps in order to make satnav systems more accurate.
Campigenus, 12 May 2007 @ 11:14pm
Re: Urban Myth
Actually, I did that in Japan. Took thousands and thousands of pictures too.
Gollux, 12 May 2007 @ 9:50pm
Loss of intelligence, technology induced?
We recently had a rash of stupidity here. Some trucking concern decided that Redwood Highway through Smith River Canyon was unable to handle their 53' trailers and their dispatchers started sending them up through Bear Camp Road, a one lane US Forest Service/BLM, not necessarily well paved road in adverse terrain with greater than 6% grades and a climb to over 4500 ft elevation to reach Highway 101. And the curves are even more horrific than the one truck buster curve in Smith River Canyon. There has been a total loss of any thinking abilities in the general human population. A good quantity of bleach needs to be dumped into the gene pool soon or we'll all die of stupidity soon.
by the tail, 12 May 2007 @ 10:34pm
Re: Loss of intelligence, technology induced?
There has been a rash trucking errors on US129 between TN and NC... better known as the tail of the dragon. 318 curves in 11 miles, plus a lot of up and downs to high side to boot.
Nav software been routing trucks over it since it is a "highway", and there are NOT many good east-west roads in area.
http://www.tailofthedragon.com/
Jon, 12 May 2007 @ 10:49pm
I found this picture of the level crossing in question here. How did she pass her driving test and not realise this was a level crossing?
Norm, 12 May 2007 @ 11:07pm
This makes me think of the movie Idiocracy (2006).
MrWizard, 12 May 2007 @ 11:12pm
Some of these stories...
are just begging to be included in the next Darwin Awards.
paul, 13 May 2007 @ 3:20am
Lets not gang up on sat navs
I think it ought to be remembered how many womans lives have been saved by having sat navs.
I say this as the numbers of arguments that have been avoided in the car by the sat nav doing the navigation is quite considerable compared to when the wife tried to navigate us up a river......
(asbestos suit now on)
Simon Farnsworth, 13 May 2007 @ 4:27am
There's a photo of the crossing available
For people wondering whether it's likely to be a badly signposted crossing, this is a picture of the crossing, taken from the direction she approached from. You will notice that there's even a sign telling you how to operate the crossing, just in case you've forgotten what you were taught when you learnt to drive.
Matthew, 13 May 2007 @ 5:40am
Re: There's a photo of the crossing available
It's not even a light, but a manual (cardboard?) sign. I suppose it's metal, but how often do those change? If there are no trains scheduled all day they walk out and open the gates?
Too many signs
Ok, now I see the green traffic light thing. That's a lot of stuff to read on a lot of different signs. However, I suppose you are taught how to deal with them when the time comes.
I suppose I'm spoiled by our automatic gates for train crossing here in USA, but that doesn't seem like a real good system.
Re: Too many signs
Which isn't in any way the GPS system's fault.
(I blame my keyboard for pressing ENTER too early) ;)
Wanda, 13 May 2007 @ 7:20am
GPS signs
The thing that I dont understand is, if people are following everything the GPS is telling them. So much so that they are not aware of their surroundings. Then why put up a ignor your gps sign? i mean they arent reading anything else except paying attention to their gps
Nick Fitzsimons, 13 May 2007 @ 8:11am
Not a typical crossing
@Matthew: this is not a typical UK level crossing. The vast majority are automated; this is in the middle of nowhere, on a road that probably only ever gets used by a farmer checking on his sheep, and a handful of other local people.
Brandon Watts, 13 May 2007 @ 8:17am
What a world...
This is definitely a trend that we're seeing a lot more lately. Some people think that having the latest technology prevents them from having to actually think, but far from being a replacement for our brains, technology is at best just a supplement to our thinking ability.
Brandon Watts
Criteo Evangelist
NA, 13 May 2007 @ 8:26am
How the heck was a GPS unit supposed to know anything about a train? GPS can only help you navigate, the driver is still responsible for *driving*.
Also, if you have to cross rail tracks, never stop *ON* the tracks for any reason. If you cant confirm that the way on the other side isnt completely clear for you to drive fully across and clear of the tracks, dont start onto them in the first place.
In this case, if there were gates on both sides, a good idea would have been to open *both* gates, drive the car fully across (keeping an eye and ear aware of any trains), then go back and close both. Having mechanical gates that average members of the community are supposed to get out and open to cross rail tracks seems a bit of an odd situation to begin with - if it was a public crossing, it should have had automatic gates, of it wasnt, they should have been locked to prevent them being opened except by authorized persons.
This is nothing new.
"Sorry, the systems really slow today"
'nuf said.
G, 13 May 2007 @ 11:14am
At what point will this tech be rreliable?
Sure it's easy to blame the driver. But, how many of you will end up in an unknown city, at night, in the rain and REALLY need a reliable source of directions. Or, as many small cities are now doing - emergencies response is directed by GPS. Recently a police officer pulled up next to me in my neighborhood and said they had an emergency Onstar call to where I was standing, at a street I had never heard of. Who is responsible? At what point is a manufacturer responsible for their products? When a plane falls out of the sky due to faulty directions? I think this will be an area of a lot of lawsuits in the future.
Pap, 13 May 2007 @ 1:47pm
The SatNav worked to spec...
"So I opened the gate, drove forward, closed the gate behind me and then went to go and open the gate in front of me."
She opened the gates one at a time, driving the car onto the track after opening the first gate. At no point did the SatNav instruct her to do that.
John Brace, 13 May 2007 @ 10:02pm
As a cyclist, I have to rely on maps or memorise the route before I set out.
Perhaps if people still practised such elementary skills or the stopping to ask for directions, they'd also be better at driving.
I realise we always want to find shorter/quicker routes to places, but it's easier doing that on a map! There are signs on roads too. *sighs*
My advice to this woman is get a bike - however there have been a number of accidents like this (vehicles at level crossings). Most of these types of level crossing (where the barrier doesn't lock down when a train is coming) are in the type of rural location this happened in.
She had a narrow (and incredibly lucky) escape.
the amazing me, 14 May 2007 @ 4:22am
Re: Satellite Navigation
That's funny because I know of GPS systems that are suitable for a bike.
I assume you meant because I'm not an idiot I am able to read a map...
Let's face it there is unfortunately no cure for idiocy. I suspect this may have been the first time she'd come across such a crossing type and was incapable of thinking for herself - because you're not allowed to now as a child (too many chances of someone getting sued).
I think I'll stick to maps and using my eyes thanks.
Lisa Howarth, 14 May 2007 @ 12:43am
Satellite Navigation!!???
Did this person have working EYES? Am I the only one here that thinks that this is simply natural selection in progress?
Few points
THis was a public crossing, but on such a minor road that it was hardly worth fitting Automatic barriers to the crosing. I am sure most locals, who actually have to use the crossing, would far rather have a manual gated crossing than no crossing a t all, because it seems unlikely that anyone would pay for a track circuit controlled set of barriers. On such a small road, half barriers could not befitted, because they are required to allow a trapped driver to escape in ther car, and so a manually controlled, video supervsed crossing would need to be used. The cost for such a crossing would be prohibitave, and so if ther were to be a fuss made and these crossings banned, tehy would simply be fenced off, not upgraded.
These crossings are common becuase of the number of minor roads and footpaths which are legally required to be kept open, and the number of minor railway lines which have survived into the present day (too few, but there are some), for which it would be uneconomical to provide automatic crossings.
I think we have now firmly established that he crossing was well signed, and that the UK uses yards, not metres. There is no more need to post these points.
what do you expect from a country that is so stupid they drive on the wrong side of the road?
Dar, 14 May 2007 @ 10:28am
Did people have this many problems with Cruise Control too when it came out?
William, 14 May 2007 @ 2:01pm
Insurance for idiocy?
I presume we all have to pay for this idiocy via increased car insurance premiums? This wasn't an accident - it was a criminally negligent failure to read, act on road signs and drive responsibly.
Tinker, 5 Jan 2008 @ 6:50am
Missed a Darwin Award by this much.....
She was probably talking on her cell phone at the time while trying to read the label on her McDonald's coffee to see if it was HOT.
Charley, 7 Jan 2008 @ 7:36am
Anyone this stupid really should not be allowed to drive.
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