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Wed Dec 31, 2014, 09:41 AM
kpete (62,459 posts)
NYT to NYPD: 1. Don't violate the Constitution. 2. Don't kill unarmed people. 3. Do your jobs.
The New York Post on Tuesday reported, and city officials confirmed, that officers are essentially abandoning enforcement of low-level offenses. According to data The Post cited for the week starting Dec. 22 — two days after two officers were shot and killed on a Brooklyn street — traffic citations had fallen by 94 percent over the same period last year, summonses for offenses like public drinking and urination were down 94 percent, parking violations were down 92 percent, and drug arrests by the Organized Crime Control Bureau were down 84 percent.
http://nypost.com/2014/12/29/arrests-plummet-following-execution-of-two-cops/
When New York City Police Walk Off the Job
The list of grievances adds up to very little, unless you look at it through the magnifying lens of resentment fomented by union bosses and right-wing commentators. The falling murder rate, the increased resources for the department, the end of quota-based policing, which the police union despised, the mayor's commitment to "broken-windows" policing — none of that matters, because many cops have latched on to the narrative that they are hated, with the mayor orchestrating the hate.
It's a false narrative. Mr. de Blasio was elected by a wide margin on a promise to reform the policing excesses that were found unconstitutional by a federal court. He hired a proven reformer, Mr. Bratton, who had achieved with the Los Angeles Police Department what needs doing in New York. The furor that has gripped the city since the Garner killing has been a complicated mess. But what New Yorkers expect of the Police Department is simple:
1. Don't violate the Constitution.
2. Don't kill unarmed people.
To that we can add:
3. Do your jobs. The police are sworn public servants, and refusing to work violates their oath to serve and protect. Mr. Bratton should hold his commanders and supervisors responsible, and turn this insubordination around.
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/12/31/opinion/when-new-york-city-police-walk-off-the-job.html?ref=opinion&_r=2&referrer=
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NYT to NYPD: 1. Don't violate the Constitution. 2. Don't kill unarmed people. 3. Do your jobs. (Original post)
kpete Dec 2014 OP
The Grey Lady may be starting to rehabilitate herself in my eyes (after
KingCharlemagne Dec 2014 #1
Quota based policing usually refers to:
Moliere Dec 2014 #5
Ah, I got you. I thought that was something of an urban legend, i.e., that cops were required to
It's some thing they don't like to admit to....
daleanime Dec 2014 #7
While tickets may not constitute a 'regressive tax' as the phrase is
KingCharlemagne Dec 2014 #10
I can't speak for the NYPD, but a neighboring community
logosoco Dec 2014 #46
If "TAX THE RICH!" still doesn't have enough of a constituency, then certainly
In San Diego the cops had a quota for field interrogation reports.
WHEN CRABS ROAR Dec 2014 #53
Welcome to DU, Moliere! And Happy New Year!
calimary Dec 2014 #54
That nickname always gives me pause.
AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #12
niyad Dec 2014 #17
Ha! I knew that sounded familiar! nt
F4lconF16 Dec 2014 #21
The B-52 Stratofortress is known as the
Unknown Beatle Dec 2014 #52
Well, that too, but that has come to mean all widebody aircraft over the years.
this stuff will be the downfall of the nypd position
roguevalley Dec 2014 #23
Scarsdale Dec 2014 #45
So, they walk off the job because they can't kill
Stellar Dec 2014 #2
Apparently so.
closeupready Dec 2014 #9
That appears to be a sticking point for them
etherealtruth Dec 2014 #24
Precisely, Stellar.
JDPriestly Dec 2014 #38
Name removed Dec 2014 #60
Should their poor actions be supported? Should they be allowed to do what they want without
uppityperson Dec 2014 #64
If they did their job well
Krytan11c Dec 2014 #66
So we want them on the job
hfojvt Jan 2015 #70
I think you cut through the B.S. and went straight to the truth. n/t
pa28 Jan 2015 #71
I think that the behavior of Lynch, some cops at the funeral, and in general lately have proven
Renew Deal Dec 2014 #3
Great Editorial
Depaysement Dec 2014 #4
Scurrilous Dec 2014 #8
HOME F**KING RUN!
amb123 Dec 2014 #11
Time to clean house...
blackspade Dec 2014 #13
Best advice ever.
Euphoria Dec 2014 #27
I hope that is what is going to happen.
Helen Borg Dec 2014 #56
samsingh Dec 2014 #14
The wealthy are at risk when cops don't do their job
Cosmic Kitten Dec 2014 #15
Some in the NYPD think that they can't do #3 unless they can do #2 and #1 would still apply
4lbs Dec 2014 #16
I'm probably going to get yelled at for this post.
christx30 Dec 2014 #18
Selling single cigarettes has nothing to do with avoiding taxes
bhikkhu Dec 2014 #25
Not entirely true
QuestionableC Dec 2014 #36
If the point were to avoid taxes, people could sell packs of cigarettes from Indian reservations,
Well, everything I read indicates that it has
TexasMommaWithAHat Dec 2014 #59
But is the risk that is taken in buying cigarettes in Missouri, importing and transporting them to
Believe me, I know what lung cancer and
Who says they shot Garner? Illegal search and seizure.
Cops MURDER someone for breaking this law
So what do you do with someone that breaks the law
If you're referring to
Depends a whole helluva lot on which law
Jackpine Radical Dec 2014 #35
Don't kill him/her
lark Dec 2014 #41
Anything other than killing them. n/t
gollygee Dec 2014 #47
Don't kill 'em. (n/t)
Iggo Dec 2014 #50
I don't use prohibited choke holds that kill people
mythology Dec 2014 #51
Post removed Dec 2014 #63
he was "breaking the law" by breaking up a fight? Are you SERIES!!!!???
They ARE doing their jobs, which is being the enforcers for the Capitalist Class.
Odin2005 Dec 2014 #19
I personally hope the gallant and brave police officers continue with brave their attitude
LiberalArkie Dec 2014 #20
Some comments on the editorial are excellent--like this one:
tblue37 Dec 2014 #22
I found most of the comments to be right
arthritisR_US Dec 2014 #43
The police union is being stupid
Gothmog Dec 2014 #26
Nine Terrifying facts about this bloated bureaucracy known as the NYPD.
Dawson Leery Dec 2014 #28
Interesting article. Thanks.
What an eye opening article. It will take me a
NYPD is out of control.
Somebody needs to rein in the Lynch mob.
Comrade Grumpy Dec 2014 #31
It really IS as simple as 1-2-3.
hifiguy Dec 2014 #32
In short, to tthe NYPD: GROW UP!
Kicked and recommended a whole bunch!
Enthusiast Dec 2014 #44
Clumsier wording, but I was on board yesterday.
Response to kpete (Original post)
KingCharlemagne (7,908 posts)
1. The Grey Lady may be starting to rehabilitate herself in my eyes (after
Last edited Wed Dec 31, 2014, 01:12 PM - Edit history (1)
Judith Miller and assorted other journalistic faux pas like Jayson Blair), so thanks for posting!
Just out of curiosity, do you know to what the phrase 'quota-based policing' refers? I'm assuming it has nothing to do with hiring and promotion policies (aka "affirmative action" , but don't recall ever seeing the phrase used before in conjunction with normal police operations.
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Response to KingCharlemagne (Reply #1)
Moliere (285 posts)
5. Quota based policing usually refers to:
A policy where each cop/department/precinct had to achieve a certain number of tickets/summons/arrests per time period. At least that's what it meant through the years.
Response to Moliere (Reply #5)
6. Ah, I got you. I thought that was something of an urban legend, i.e., that cops were required to
meet 'quotas' for their tickets, but maybe I mis-read or misunderstood what I had read previously.
Thanks for taking the time to clarify.
daleanime (17,796 posts)
7. It's some thing they don't like to admit to....
the need to generate a cash flow.
And it's some thing they need to stop doing.
Response to daleanime (Reply #7)
10. While tickets may not constitute a 'regressive tax' as the phrase is
narrowly construed, they have the same effect, i.e., assessing everyone the same without regard to their ability to pay.
Let me see if I have this right: NYPD issue tickets to generate revenue in order to pay the salaries and benefits of NYPD? That is a scheme worthy of the efforts of a Joseph Heller or Franz Kafka.
Response to KingCharlemagne (Reply #10)
Wed Dec 31, 2014, 05:10 PM
logosoco (3,105 posts)
46. I can't speak for the NYPD, but a neighboring community
voted to "incorporate" about a dozen years ago and it brought no benefits. Now the town is known for the cops who stop everyone, and it is primarily to maintain the police force!
A group suggested our city incorporate itself, and we said "NO way!". We are just fine with the county sheriff department.
I also noticed when I paid our personal property tax (we have that in Missouri, don't know about other places) and our real estate receipt showed nothing going toward the sheriff department. I never noticed that before. I thought they got a chunk like the fire department. So, it would seem that police departments are funding themselves.
I do live in a semi rural suburb (sounds crazy, but that's basically what it is), so maybe large cities work differently. But it seems to me that the NYPD is a force unto itself here. That does not bode well for low income people or minorities, as they are being unfairly targeted.
I guess the best solution would be TAX THE RICH! And only arrest actual criminals who are actually harming someone!
Response to logosoco (Reply #46)
48. If "TAX THE RICH!" still doesn't have enough of a constituency, then certainly
aligning tickets with citizens' ability to pay them should resonate with most Americans under the broad rubric of 'fairness.' Thus, if some shithead investment banker is doing 80 in a 55 in his or her land yacht, he would pay significantly more than Joe Blow whose trying to get to work in his 10-year-old jalopy with expired tags. Why? Because the rich shithead can afford to pay more.
WHEN CRABS ROAR (3,813 posts)
53. In San Diego the cops had a quota for field interrogation reports.
It's 1955 in San Diego I'm 15 years old and the cop stops me walking down the street by the beach, he asks me my name, age, where I live, what I'm doing, where i'm going, have I ever been arrested and makes me empty my pockets, he then enters all this information on his field interrogation report form, this takes about 15 to 20 minutes. We used to pray that they would get a call.
Flash forward to 1985 in San Diego, my 15 year old son is sitting on our front lawn by the beach and the cop pulls up and yells out his car window, "hey asshole get over here".
Sadly this is a true story.
BTW not that it makes any difference. but were white folks.
And the police wonder why they aren't respected.
calimary (53,046 posts)
54. Welcome to DU, Moliere! And Happy New Year!
Glad you're here. Yeah, indeed so about the quotas. The police and sheriffs and Highway Patrol and other law enforcement ALWAYS deny that there are quotas. But I'd suspect there are. Just judging from the general police behavior and anecdotal evidence that I've noticed and heard about over the years.
AtheistCrusader (32,867 posts)
12. That nickname always gives me pause.
I've always understood it to be a nickname for the B-52 Stratofortress.
Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #12)
niyad (66,958 posts)
17. here:
The New York Times newspaper, referring to its historical tendency to present a higher-than-usual ratio of copy to graphics
F4lconF16 (3,747 posts)
21. Ha! I knew that sounded familiar! nt
Unknown Beatle (2,559 posts)
52. The B-52 Stratofortress is known as the
BUFF (Big Ugly Fat Fucker).
Response to Unknown Beatle (Reply #52)
58. Well, that too, but that has come to mean all widebody aircraft over the years.
roguevalley (40,656 posts)
23. this stuff will be the downfall of the nypd position
Response to roguevalley (Reply #23)
Scarsdale (6,330 posts)
45. Paychecks
Stop paying them, who do they think they are - Senators and Congresspeople? THEY are the only ones who get paid for doing NOTHING.
Stellar (5,493 posts)
2. So, they walk off the job because they can't kill
unarmed people. I guess the Mayor has taken all of the joy out of their job. smh
Response to Stellar (Reply #2)
closeupready (29,503 posts)
9. Apparently so.
What else are we to take away from their work slowdown?
Pretty appalling.
etherealtruth (22,165 posts)
24. That appears to be a sticking point for them
JDPriestly (57,936 posts)
38. Precisely, Stellar.
That is the message the NYPD is giving to the world.
It makes them look worse than ever.
Their union leader is a fool if he thinks people do not read the message that you stated:
"So, they walk off the job because they can't kill unarmed people."
I hope that goes viral because that is precisely the message they are sending the world.
Name removed Message auto-removed
Response to Name removed (Reply #60)
uppityperson (113,440 posts)
64. Should their poor actions be supported? Should they be allowed to do what they want without
consequences?
Krytan11c (271 posts)
66. If they did their job well
They would find a hell of a lot more support.
Maybe the citizens are tired of being stopped and frisked and their Gov't is heeding its citizens call.
Thu Jan 1, 2015, 01:56 AM
hfojvt (37,514 posts)
70. So we want them on the job
so they can issue traffic citations, and summonses for public urination?
I bet the people who are NOT getting citations for petty offenses are also not all that upset about the strike.
Or maybe I just feel that way because I am a serial public urinator.
pa28 (6,145 posts)
71. I think you cut through the B.S. and went straight to the truth. n/t
Renew Deal (74,805 posts)
3. I think that the behavior of Lynch, some cops at the funeral, and in general lately have proven
Many of the protesters right.
Depaysement (1,835 posts)
4. Great Editorial
Right to the heart of the matter.
Scurrilous (35,819 posts)
8. K & R
amb123 (1,188 posts)
11. HOME F**KING RUN!
blackspade (10,056 posts)
13. Time to clean house...
and get rid of the nut-jobs.
Then maybe they can hire folks that aren't fucking bullying lunatics.
Response to blackspade (Reply #13)
Euphoria (448 posts)
27. Best advice ever.
And with a positive outcome.
Less lunatics and more community-minded officers of the law.
Helen Borg (3,963 posts)
56. I hope that is what is going to happen.
samsingh (14,658 posts)
14. good advice
Cosmic Kitten (3,498 posts)
15. The wealthy are at risk when cops don't do their job
The Editorial Board is wise to petition cops to do their job.
Being wealthy won't insulate them from street crime.
When cops were targeting the working class
was there much editorializing on that problem?
You know, drunkenness, public urination, drug arrests...
Perhaps the Editors are motivated by a concern
for their own "quality of life" and personal safety?
Response to Cosmic Kitten (Reply #15)
57. Bingo...
Even the 1 percenters need things running in society.
4lbs (6,079 posts)
16. Some in the NYPD think that they can't do #3 unless they can do #2 and #1 would still apply
otherwise, it just won't be any fun to be an NYPD officer anymore.
christx30 (5,996 posts)
18. I'm probably going to get yelled at for this post.
But I'm trying to wrap my head around this whole thing from a long term perspective.
The mayor gets the cops to enforce cigarette taxes by going after people selling loose cigarettes, because there are people that don't want to pay $11.50 for a pack.
Cops try to arrest someone for breaking this law, that person resists arrest, and dies. Protests start up because the cop that tried to make the arrest was not indicted by a grand jury in that guy's death. The mayor supports the protests. Cops get pissed at the mayor and ask him not to show up at police funerals. They turn their backs on the mayor. Two cops are murdered by an asshole, and the police force turns their backs on the mayor at the funeral. Then the cops stop getting out of their cars to do their jobs. Not as much money coming in from fines. Those cigarette taxes aren't getting enforced. Is stop and frisk still happening? As long as people aren't dying, I fail to see the problem.
Response to christx30 (Reply #18)
bhikkhu (10,513 posts)
25. Selling single cigarettes has nothing to do with avoiding taxes
...you still have to pay the taxes when you buy a pack, before you re-sell them singly. There's nothing about enforcing that law (or any other law) that requires unarmed people to be shot or the constitution to be violated. If the police did a better job and treated people with fairness and respect, there wouldn't be protests against them. Probably nutjobs with guns would still come up with reasons to shoot them (or more likely to shoot other people), but mental illness is an issue less easily addressed.
From a long-term perspective, an effective police force serves and supports a healthy society. A racist and thuggish police force creates an unhealthy society.
Response to bhikkhu (Reply #25)
QuestionableC (63 posts)
36. Not entirely true
People regularly sell "loosies" that come from states with lower cigarette taxes, Indian reservations or stolen cigarettes.
Response to QuestionableC (Reply #36)
39. If the point were to avoid taxes, people could sell packs of cigarettes from Indian reservations,
The problem with the sale of loosies is that they can be sold to minors very easily. The sale of cigarettes to minors is against the law in many states.
In California, even in ordinary grocery stores, the cigarettes are stored in cabinets with locks and keys. The sales clerk has to make sure that children are not buying them and that is why they are behind locks and keys.
So it is not about taxes. It is about trying to prevent minors from starting to smoke. The earlier a child starts to smoke or drink, the harder it is for that child to quit and the sooner the clock starts ticking for the child when it comes to the disease and death that are often associated with smoking.
Minors are not considered under our law to have the capacity to make the decision that they want to take the risks of death and disease that smoking entail. So that is why the sale of loosies is against the law, I suspect.
Response to JDPriestly (Reply #39)
TexasMommaWithAHat (3,212 posts)
59. Well, everything I read indicates that it has
everything to do with taxes. Over half of the cigarettes sold in New York City are smuggled in from other states. These are resold by street vendors as well as in regular brick and mortar establishments. It's a multi-million dollar black market.
http://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-announces-new-strike-force-crack-down-illegal-cigarette-and-tobacco-trafficking
http://nypost.com/2014/07/14/state-confiscating-thousands-of-illegal-cigarettes/
According to the above article, a pack of cigarettes is taxed in Missouri at a rate of only 17 cents. New York - more than FIVE dollars a pack. That's a huge difference for anyone who has a pack-a-day habit, and a big reason for the thriving black market. It's definitely not just a few teens driving this market.
Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Reply #59)
62. But is the risk that is taken in buying cigarettes in Missouri, importing and transporting them to
NYC and selling them on a sort of black market worth it?
New York is right to enforce its tax laws and its laws that discourage smoking. Smoking kills. I can see it among my friends. Those who smoked have died about 10-15 years younger than those of us who did not smoke. I have a couple of friends over 70 who smoked, but not many.
And the state government has to pick up the tab for the high costs of health care for people with emphysema and lung cancer and other disease related to smoking. That's something that NYC and New York State recognize. Other states may have money to throw away on smokers' bad health, but states like New York and California would rather spend that money helping people be healthier, helping people live good, healthy lives rather than spending it on keeping people dying from their cigarette habits on life support.
Missouri is foolish to have such low taxes on cigarettes. If you life long enough to watch your smoking friends die, you will appreciate what I am saying.
69. Believe me, I know what lung cancer and
emphysema look like. I hate tobacco with a passion.
I'm just explaining why the police are making these arrests.
67. Who says they shot Garner? Illegal search and seizure.
30. Cops MURDER someone for breaking this law
Fixed it for you.
Response to Krytan11c (Reply #30)
33. So what do you do with someone that breaks the law
and resists arrest?
34. If only
Cops had some kind of non-lethal weapon to use on people who resist being choked out.
It must have been so hard for those poor little police officers knowing that as soon as Mr. Garner said not today they just had to kill him.
68. If you're referring to
tasers or pepper spray, people have died from those. And with Mr. Garner's heart, it would have probably killed him.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/other/are-tasers-too-deadly-be-called-non-lethal-f8C11077668
Would you have been ok with pepper spray?
http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/2014/09/man-dies-after-being-pepper-sprayed-during-a-scuffle-with-university-park-police-authorities-say.html/
So I ask again, what do cops do when someone is resisting arrest? Just walk away? Why have laws against selling individual cigarettes? It's because it cuts into city revenue. The cops weren't enforcing any kind of public safety law. It was about protecting pay for the cops and other city services. High taxes are great, as long as you can get people to pay them.
But when someone finds a way around them, like feeding quarters into parking meters to protect people from a fine (the city gets 25 cents instead of $50) you either let it go or you enforce it.
So I'm selling loosies. You catch me in the act, and tell me to turn around. I tell you where to shove that command. You grab for my wrist. I jerk my arm away and repeat my suggestion on where to shove that arrest idea. What do you do now to protect the city's revenue and your own pay check? Do you walk away? Or do you escalate use of force to get me to comply?
Jackpine Radical (45,274 posts)
35. Depends a whole helluva lot on which law
and how the arrest is resisted.
If someone has just killed 3 people & is resisting arrest by shooting at the cops, I think that's a somewhat different story than what happened to Eric Garner. At no point in the interaction did it make any sense to lay a hand on him.
lark (12,895 posts)
41. Don't kill him/her
if she/he's not holding a real gun! That's the first thing. After that there are lots of options. Garner could have been arrested without the choke hold. The cop CHOSE to use that method and didn't give a rats ass that he killed Garner.
Besides, that's not really to the point. Michael Brown didn't commit a crime, Tamir Rice didn't commit a crime, so many didn't commit crimes but were killed by police for something they don't control - the color of their skins.
gollygee (21,415 posts)
47. Anything other than killing them. n/t
Iggo (41,259 posts)
50. Don't kill 'em. (n/t)
mythology (9,527 posts)
51. I don't use prohibited choke holds that kill people
I do the math and realize that there are 6 cops and 1 Eric Gardner who wasn't resisting to the point of being a danger to people around him and find a non-lethal method.
Yes underlying health issues contributed to Gardner's death, but it wouldn't have been a problem if somebody wasn't cutting off his air supply and arteries in a move specifically banned because it kills.
Response to mythology (Reply #51)
Response to Post removed (Reply #63)
65. he was "breaking the law" by breaking up a fight? Are you SERIES!!!!???
Aw, that didn't last long. I was looking forward to a new chew toy.
Odin2005 (53,521 posts)
19. They ARE doing their jobs, which is being the enforcers for the Capitalist Class.
LiberalArkie (10,855 posts)
20. I personally hope the gallant and brave police officers continue with brave their attitude
then maybe the city can have a reduction in force for the NYPD. There is no reason for NYC to have a local police force larger than most countries armys.
tblue37 (32,393 posts)
22. Some comments on the editorial are excellent--like this one:
MikeJersey City, NJ
In our society, it's perfectly acceptable – and in fact, to be taken seriously rather than as some New Deal relic, you almost have to do it – to demonize any other class of civil servants: public school teachers, social workers, postal employees, you name it. Pundits and voters alike scream and cry that their unions are out of control and serve only to protect incompetence.
But when the police unions stand up for bad cops and demand that their members renege on their obligation to the public in favor of loyalty to their least worthy colleagues, the very same people who stand up and cheer for the Scott Walkers of the world, stand up and cheer again for the one type of public sector union that really does all the things they complain about.
ON EDIT: Here's another comment that shows that the NYPD are shooting themselves in the foot with their tantrums:
Judy from Fairfax VAVirginia
I am a liberal, and an old woman. I am also the niece of one of New York City's finish. I never, ever, in my worst nightmare expected to have to write this: bust the Union.
Response to tblue37 (Reply #22)
arthritisR_US (6,630 posts)
43. I found most of the comments to be right
wing drivel with very few reasoned comments as the ones you highlighted.
Gothmog (70,130 posts)
26. The police union is being stupid
This conduct is unacceptable
Dawson Leery (17,538 posts)
28. Nine Terrifying facts about this bloated bureaucracy known as the NYPD.
http://www.salon.com/2012/09/28/nine_terrifying_facts_about_americas_biggest_police_force/
Response to Dawson Leery (Reply #28)
40. Interesting article. Thanks.
42. What an eye opening article. It will take me a
couple of days just to digest all of the links but the article in and of itself is terrifying. How can they uphold the law when they don't apply the same laws to themselves? Case after case, irrespective of department, highlights their lack of moral authority and dearth of integrity. One could almost think you have a mafia running that city
29. NYPD is out of control.
More so than many other department in the rural areas.
Bloomberg and Kelly aggressively worked to militarize the department.
Comrade Grumpy (13,184 posts)
31. Somebody needs to rein in the Lynch mob.
hifiguy (33,688 posts)
32. It really IS as simple as 1-2-3.
37. In short, to tthe NYPD: GROW UP!
Do your jobs. You signed up for the risks. Take them in stride.
Part of your job is doing what the civil authorities especially the mayor tells you to do. If you don't like doing what the mayor tells you to do, then quit and find another job.
Enthusiast (50,983 posts)
44. Kicked and recommended a whole bunch!
Thank you, kpete.
49. Clumsier wording, but I was on board yesterday.
(even before I knew there was a board to be on):
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002πd=6021010
55. Wait a minute...
They should not be paid, first. Fired, next, if they keep it up.
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