Larian Studios Forums Divinity 2 - Ego Draconis (English) Divinity 2 - Ego Draconis Moral dilemma's in RPGs
Re: Moral dilemma's in RPGs
twoheadedragon #350657 04/04/08 09:46 AM
Smashy
Probably true, but maybe it's not really as bad as that. Maybe there's only like four factors, a race factor, a "helpful" factor, an "unhelpful" factor, and a faction factor.
I say helpful and unhelpful instead of good and evil because different individuals would have different opinions of what's good and what's evil depending on what "side" they're on.
The race factor would cover what you've done to benefit or harm that NPC's race overall. This also factors in some inherent alliances and rivalries between the races (such as between the Elves and the Dwarves).
Helpful and unhelpful covers how you've impacted the individual, their friends and family, and their general community.
These factors would also be weighed differently for different NPCs; for one, the biggest thing they care about is whether you're also a member of their guild. For another, the most important thing is that you did something to help the Elves. And yet another can overlook that you're a really unsavory fellow, because you helped his friend out of a jam.
Yeah, it certainly wouldn't be easy to pull off, but it sure would be cool to see in action. I'd like to see an RPG where the NPCs had some "real" feeling relationship with one another, where there's like six degrees of seperation from any one character to another (and to Kevin Bacon ... j/k). Where the poor farmer guy you help out, unbeknownst to you, is the King's cousin's daughter's husband's aunt's stepfather or something. lol. Instead it usually seems like 20 strangers suddenly appeared from the twilight zone and started living in a village together. (I know, I'm dreaming)
Smashy #350682 04/04/08 03:07 PM
twoheadedragon
To dream the impossible dream,
To fight the unbeatable foe,
To bear with unbearable sorrow,
To run where the brave dare not go,
To right the unrightable wrong,
To love pure and chaste from afar,
To try when your arms are too weary,
To reach the unreachable star,
This is my quest, to follow that star,
No matter how hopeless, no matter how far;
To fight for the right without question or pause,
To be willing to march into Hell
For a Heavenly cause!
And I know if I'll only be true
To this glorious quest,
That my heart will lie peaceful and calm
When I'm laid to my rest.
And the world will be better for this,
That one man, scorned and covered with scars,
Still strove with his last ounce of courage
To reach the unreachable star! --
Never be afraid to dream! Many of the greatest things that were ever accomplished were one man's dream! There are so many examples, from inventions (such as the telephone) to empires (such as the Mongolian Empire) so dream on!
"Oh Lord, how long will the search go on?"
Ubereil #351787 25/04/08 04:43 AM
There is always the big dilema of what was left from DD - what to do with the baby?
Carrie #351792 25/04/08 05:59 AM
What happened to the baby from the end of DD is described in the Beyond Divinity prequel novella and the game itself. There was a fairly detailed description of the novella story line in the forum a long time ago; I'll see if I can find it tomorrow.
The original UK release of BD included the novella, and it was available as part of a 'fan pack' along with an audio CD around the time of the game's release.
Raze #351797 25/04/08 08:51 AM
Originally Posted by Raze
THEY MENTION THE BABY?!?!? QUICK, QUICK, SPILL THE BEANS BEFORE I LOSE MY MIND!
I am lost as to where in the game it says anything...hope i did not miss something. Last few scenes...you are holding a blade over the baby...then when you come out of the dungeon you have the baby in your arms. If you could find it that would be awesome.
Elliot_Kane
The Marked One raises the kid and tries to teach it not to be evil. You can imagine how well THAT turns out...
END SPOILER
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Elliot_Kane #351818 26/04/08 04:04 AM
Originally Posted by Elliot_Kane
The marked one is a DUMMY!
twoheadedragon #351831 26/04/08 09:17 PM
That's what I thought, too!
Nothing is said in DD about the baby. In fact, when explaining the final cutscenes in an old topic Marian pointed out that you do not actually see what the Divine One carries out of the dungeon; it could be the baby (which is what most people assumed) or loot.
I couldn't find the story summary (it may have been posted in the old forum), so...
The Divine One took the baby (Damian) to raise as his son, with the help of Zandalor. He also started an organization of Paladins to hunt down the remaining Black Ring members. Everything went fine for about the first 12 years.
One day after Damian failed to return from a ride in the forest, the Divine One went looking for him, and found him in a clearing passed out, after apparently defending himself from an orc attack (burned their hearts out). The paladins saw no trace of orcs entering or leaving the area, and the orc trail ended shortly outside the clearing, suggesting they were teleported in. Afterwards Damian claimed not to remember anything of the attack, and the Divine One told people he fell and hit his head after his horse was spooked by a snake. Returning to the clearing to get rid of the evidence, the Divine One found someone had already removed the orc bodies, blood, footprints and any other evidence that anything had happened there.
Eventually Damian joined the paladins, trained and learned scrying and anything else he could, until he was 15.
Scouting an unfamiliar area for Black Ring activity, the Divine One found a half ruined temple mostly hidden by trees, etc. Exploring, he found that it contained rifts to other places. He cast a protective ward around the temple, and called on some paladins to set up camp nearby, to see if and how anyone was using the temple (particularly the Black Ring). After a couple uneventful weeks, the Divine One returned home, leaving the paladins there.
In his absence, Damian had found himself a slightly older girlfriend, a witch that was teaching him minor tricks and protective spells. He was also skipping training and chores, since he felt the paladins had nothing left to teach him. The Divine One got Damian to invite his girlfriend over for supper, which seemed to go well. Afterwards, the Divine One heard them arguing, but could not make out the words.
After Damian failed to return to the barracks that night or the next day, the Divine One went looking for him at his girlfriend's place. Nobody was there, so he took the liberty of lockpicking the door and searching inside. Amongst some burn papers in the fireplace, he found evidence of a link to an evil Black Ring necromancer he had killed. He sent paladins to search for Damian and the girl.
They brought in the girl, with some casualties in the process, but did not find Damian. She was the daughter of the necromancer that had been ordered by the Black Ring to perform certain experiments, on pain of death. She felt she had to help her father with those experiments, and was also ordered by the Black Ring to tell Damian about his heritage, and to bring him under their control. However, she hated the Black Ring for reducing her father from a powerful necromancer to a mere servant, and felt they were too petty to even be allowed to worship the Damned One. She said she did not tell Damian about his past, and that their fight was due to him still being young, that he was scared of the power she was working to awaken in him and develop.
Anyway, being a confirmed murderer and Black Ring member, she was executed by the Divine One. Of course att the end of the procedure Damian walked into the barracks just in time to see the deathblow, after which he fled.
After no trace of Damian was found for awhile, the Divine One assumed he would probably want revenge, especially if he learned of his past. He took most of the paladins and moved to the camp near the temple, in order to draw Damian out. It worked, and he showed up at the head of a Black Ring army. While the two armies fought, the Divine One went after Damian, and then lead him back to the temple. Once inside, he zapped Damian with some divine magic and tackled him through a rift, binding him and knocking him out. He carried Damian an hour away from the rift, and then cast a spell on him, so that even if he were to somehow find his way back to the rift, that he would not be able to leave unless the Divine One, or one of his followers, wanted him to be able to do so.
When Damian woke, he was on Nemisis with no memory of his past (for awhile) except his name and where he came from. The species there were Raanaar; the elders could create rifts, and attempted to bring Damian home, but he could not leave. They took him into their academy, intending it to be just until they figured out what the problem was, and he started studying there, eventually learning how to create rifts. However, his attempts to leave Nemisis through his own rifts fail just like they had before. This caused a tantrum, and Damian became increasingly angry, depressed, cruel, and eventually a genocidal megalomaniac.
There is a little more in the novella, which is also described a bit more briefly throughout Beyond Divinity (mostly in the second half).
A very interesting read Raze, thank you!
Lar_q #351893 28/04/08 04:46 PM
The Anti-Damian
There are a lot of great ideas already said, and I'm not gonna touch all that castration stuff with a ten-foot pole-cat (As the old folks used to say).
Back to the dilemmas and knuckle-draggers: Maybe this could be solved by difficulty levels. Make "Mr. X" so he can't be killed on Easy, make a warning on Medium, and no warning on Hardcore. The smart and experienced players will probably post all the tricky parts anyway, and they can just tell the new players (I just hate the "Newbie" word). Then everybody will be happy except the programmers-sorry, guys.
I don't know about plagues, it seems too easy when you conveniently run into three plants just after a witch tells you about them. But it may be confusing if there were all kinds of plants and you had to find one and only one.
But I love the idea of being able to pick sides among factions, prove yourself, and even be able to accept surrender (if I get XP). Then I could play again and pick a different side. That would make the game much more rich and fun.
This could have concequences later: for instance if you help out a village of Elves and are named "Elf-Friend" later on Elves will be inclined to be friendly, and Dwarves will be inclined to be unfriendly (not hostile, just mouthy).
(One pet peeve that has nothing to do with this topic: the game's typeface! All the twos and threes look too similar in the trading screens and some other characters look similar.)
"In the last analysis, it is our conception of death which decides our answers to all the questions that life puts to us." --Dag Hammarskjold
pcgneurotic
Were we ever told where they got the baby from in the first place? I just finished Div Div and I don't recall anything about how it was sourced. That could be interesting!
pcgneurotic #533788 31/07/14 11:10 PM
Not that I recall.
Costy345
Very nice now i know what happened after DD ended thanks