Re: [cc-community] Strayform - where artists and fans connecttofund	and distribute new creative works 
----- Original Message -----
From: "drew Roberts" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 1:28 AM
Subject: Re: [cc-community] Strayform - where artists and fans connecttofund
and distribute new creative works


[snip]

> >
> > I've looked into several possibilities here in the UK.  There's a number
of
> > projects which gain government funding for "charitable work", or
"community
> > work" which benefits others at reduced or no cost.  We have a community
> > studio locally for instance, I could record stuff there cheaply, or
> > continue to do as I do now and record stuff in my own home setup.  I'm
not
> > sure if a band could run as a registered charity, though it's an
> > interesting concept ;)
>
> That is an idea. Pay expenses of band, including band members, roadies,
etc.
> salaries. Release the music under a Free (and in my book, copyleft)
license.
> This is certainly a benefit to the public.

Yes.  The only drawback I can see is that it's no longer "charitable" when
they are fed back into the commercial ticketing system, you'd have to create
some kind of not-for-profit deriv.  Renders the whole thing a bit of a
non-starter.  Though having said that they could do "free" concerts and
bring along the t-shirts and the merch......who knows.

> >
> > > > Historically, bundled into the
> > > > cost of each CD or book is the cost of production and
> > > > distribution.  But now with the internet distribution is
> > > > nearly costless.  Let
> > > > âs move the payment forward to the point of creation.
> > >
> > > That is one option. Worth an experiment in my book.
> >
> > There's a band called The Crimea who are doing something like this
already,
> > they offer the CD for those folks who want something tangible (or high
> > quality), but also offer their latest album for download completely free
of
> > charge.
>
> I am more concerned with a Free license myself, rather than free of
charge.

Yeah, that's a shame.  To be honest I'm not entirely convinced they're aware
of the options, otherwise they may have opted for something more open.
Reading their occasional interviews and posts they seem keen to duck out of
the traditional systems.  I was also encouraged recently by something Thom
York said about wanting to do something similar in Time Magazine.

Should CC have some kind of lobbying group to stalk these artists? lol :)

> >
> > http://www.thecrimea.net/
> >
> > They're smart enough to realise it'll benefit them in the longrun, as
far
> > as gigs and promotion goes.  Much like the Chinese situation.
>
> Even with a Free license, you could charge for gigs and merchandise, etc.
> >
> > > > Recording companies pay artists upfront to create
> > > > something new and then charge the consumers per copy; let
> > > > âs have fans pay the artists directly and give them the
> > > > freedom to use and share.  They will use this freedom to
> > > > distribute and promote, providing a valuable service to
> > > > artists.  The end result would be lower total costs, more
> > > > freedom and control for artists and consumers, and new
> > > > communities with strong ties between artists and fans.
> >
> > Fans do pay the artists directly, every time they turn up to a gig or
buy a
> > t-shirt, or a high-def DVD surround sound limited edition recording.
> > There's no reason for the fans to pay for recordings anymore, as The
Crimea
> > point out.
>
> The thing is, if the music came with a Free license and I liked, I would
> happily pay the band for a CD. (Actually, I have been thinking recently
that
> it might be a nice twist to go back to the "album format" for delivery of
> CDs. Basically, album size, materials, posters, lyrics, etc. with a CD
inside
> instead of vinyl. Is it clear what I mean here?)

Yes.  That's exactly the kind of thing I'd love to see, and I agree, I'd
happily pay good money for something like that.  I think one of the issues
with CDs is that the price remained fixed whilst the "costs" bottomed out.
Most music lovers and consumers are well aware of the costs now, especially
as daily newspapers include "free" CDs and DVDs whilst still paying dues to
the artists and creators.  It's difficult to convince people to pay for data
I guess.

So it's the additional and exclusive things people expect to pay more for,
the physical things they can touch, wear or play with.  I kept my old vinyl
because some of the artwork is simply iconic, awesome stuff from the 70s and
80s.  I was thinking of framing some of those old album covers.

It'd be great to bring back that sense of ownership, the internet is a great
place for things like fanclubs and fan-feedback, though we're not seeing so
much of that just yet - beyond myspace..

> > The costs associated with writing and recording are a fraction
> > of what they used to be, and the opportunities for the band to claw back
> > the investment with merchandising and in the commercial space are
massive.
> >
> > > > â The Site â
> > > >
> > > > With actualizing this vision in mind, I created
> > > > www.strayform.com.  It works like a social network for
> > > > artist and fans with specialized features to promote,
> > > > fund, and distribute new media.  A library of CC licensed
> > > > media leads to you to discover new artists.  Becoming fans
> > > > of these artists and selecting media as one of your
> > > > favorites allows us to rank and provide recommendations,
> > > > while giving you specialized privileges and notifications.
> > > >  People with similar interests surfing your pages use
> > > > these connections and find new favorites and artists as
> > > > well.  These massive connectivity provides a network that
> > > > funnels interest into Proposals.  Proposals are artists
> > > > â offers to create new CC licensed media funded by fans.
> > >
> > > Unless htis is for BY and BY-SA works, I am not too interested. To me
the
> > > works are still mostly gonna be useless and pollution.
> >
> > There was another website in the news recently which looked a lot like
> > yours in concept, I forget the name.  This other website was making a
song
> > and dance (almost literally) about their first artist making a CD from
> > monies pledged by myspace fans.  I say great, whatever works.  Though
when
> > they finally make their recording it wasn't clear if they'd then give
the
> > recording away for free or start to charge for it.
>
> Again, for me, the crux of the matter is not whether they give it away or
> charge for it, it is whether it comes with a Free License.

Agreed.

> >
> > I've also heard of other schemes where funders are effectively
investors.
> > So the whole thing becomes like the stock market with share values for
> > artists etc.
>
> This is effectively no more than a twist on the corporate or partnership
> model. Unless there is a Free license involved, what is to stop a sell out
in
> a few years to the majors? (Leaving the majority of fans no better off
than
> they are now.)

Again, very much agreed.  I don't like the idea for that reason, it's more
of the same thing but with the convenience of lower risk by burdoning the
fans with the setup/recording costs.  A lot of the news repotage talks of
$50,000+ for recording fees, sounds to me like a studio somewhere is making
a good living out of it!

> >
> > I would suggest building into your plan somehow the "beyond music"
strategy
> > of the Chinese, so artists using your site don't expect to make money
from
> > the fans for the music directly.  There should be something else,
> > merchandising or signed pictures or whatever.
>
> That is one option, but I think setting a price at which you will release
a
> track with a Free license (say CC BY-SA for the sake of argument) is worth
an
> experiment. If I can get some people together willing to record this way,
I
> will run some experiments along these lines.

Yeah, what's kinda happening is the music industry in China is accepting
their fate of every release being BY-ND :)  I agree, removing the ND and
replacing it with an SA would be an interesting experiment.

If you ever start this, count me in ;)

Kev

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