Pine Mouth Revisited

by Michael Y. Park

A little while ago, I wrote up something about the phenomenon people are calling "pine mouth": the bizarre metallic taste people get in their mouths after eating certain pine nuts. It's extremely unpleasant, it can last for weeks, but it doesn't seem to be permanent. Since then, it seems like more and more people are experiencing pine mouth. Many folks seemed to be complaining that they had it happen after getting pine nuts from certain distributors, so I called them up and tried to figure out if they or anyone else could figure out what was going on. Here's what I found. A couple complaints came about FreshDirect pine nuts, so I talked to FreshDirect's corporate HQ, and here's what their spokeswoman told me: "We have seen in the media that there have been issues raised about the taste of pine nuts imported from China. At FreshDirect, we always work to find the best products at the best prices for our customers. And, while FreshDirect has carried pine nuts from China in the past, we no longer carry them." Also, many complaints seemed to come from those who'd eaten Trader Joe's pine nuts in the last couple months. (I've eaten plenty of Trader Joe's pine nuts in the past few months and never had a problem, but the way.) I called up the Trader Joe's people, but they told me that they don't discuss their business practices. But here's an interesting twist: A lot of people who've had pine mouth have pointed the finger at pine nuts from China. (Most pine nuts come from either the Chinese-Russian border or Turkey, I've been told.) Trader Joe's stopped using products from China by Jan. 1, 2008 (remember when Chinese melamine contamination and the like was the biggest product-safety fear?). The company now uses two varieties of pine nuts: Hong (or red) from Russia and Korea, and Xue (or cedar) from Russia. So since Trader Joe's doesn't use Chinese pine nuts, it doesn't seem like simply purely another Chinese issue, although it's worth noting that the Russian-Chinese border can be extremely porous, and much of the Russian-grown pine nuts are processed by the Chinese anyway. There was a complaint about Sam's Club pine nuts, so I called them up. Their corporate spokeswoman made no comment and referred me to Amport Foods, a Minneapolis company that imports pine nuts and had supplied Sam's. CEO Andrew Spellman declined to make a lengthy comment, saying only: "The issue of pine mouth is a new revelation to Amport Foods. It's too early to supply any answers, as we don't know what the problem really is." But then I talked to someone who works at a company that works with pine nuts, who asked to remain unnamed, and the remarks were illuminating."We don't know what we're dealing with, and we need to get some real answers on it," the source said. (And forgive me from using the plural "they" instead of correct singular for this person from now on.) According to the source, the company they work for went from essentially no complaints about pine mouth to several in the past six months. (But note that we're talking about, say, four or five cases from a volume of pine nuts in the millions of pounds.) "It seems to be this crop year," they said, and spoke of a rumor of a possible, unconfirmed case involving pine nuts grown in Arizona. "We're dumbfounded. We can't find a pattern to it," they said. In fact, it's been a horrible year for the pine-nut crop in general. Quality is extremely poor, and prices have skyrocketed threefold, leaving some retailers forgoing selling them at all. But pine mouth doesn't help, of course. An immediate question is whether or not the pine nuts might have been contaminated with chemicals or handled improperly. But the pine nuts the source works with come from a Western-built processing plant on the Russia-China border, and the pine nuts are naturally grown "on mountain water," and the trees aren't sprayed. "That's what's got everyone surprised," the source said. So what to do for the average diner? A new crop of pine nuts should be available in the next six weeks to two months. And you can take what solace you can from the fact that no one seems to have reported a serious health problem aside from the obviously unpleasant two weeks or so of a metallic taste in the mouth. In Britain, which is undergoing the same issue, researchers have ruled out heavy-metal contamination or chemical differences in the pine-mouth nuts and regular nuts. Some guess it might be oxidation. Now, I've tried to contact agricultural, food, and medical experts about this as well, but so far everyone's come up blank. I'll keep trying, though, and will let you know here when I find out anything more.

sands1899

02:40:52 PM on

07/08/10

I also have a "pine mouth" story. We hosted a dinner sometime in May of this year (2010). One of the side dishes: grilled asparagus with pine nuts! At least three of the six people in our party got some variation of "pine mouth" within 2-3 days after the dinner. Two of the six people did not have any effect, and we are unsure about the 6th (we didn't ask her). We had bought the pine nuts from a Kroger in Houston in bulk from a self-serve bin- upon returning to the store, we did note that these pine nuts were called "Chinese pine nuts". For me, the bitter taste lasted about 5 days, with the worst being on the 2nd day (i.e., it was unpleasant eating absolutely anything). For the other two people, one had it very mildly and it started on day 3, lasting a few days. The third person had it for about a week, moderately. So much for pine nuts! I don't think I'll be serving them to company again. Otherwise, I may start getting "Respectfully Decline" on my party invitations!

dg8811

02:14:01 AM on

06/29/10

DO NOT EAT THE KALE SALAD WITH PINE NUTS FROM WHOLE FOODS IN EVANSTON, IL!!! I did about 2 days ago, and now I have pine mouth. I can't eat bread or drink coffee, and right now all I can stand to eat is some veggies and water.

tiffbrewster

11:31:16 AM on

06/11/10

Problem Solved!

I am one of the unlucky ones afflicted by Pine Mouth after eating some cheaper nuts from a local grocery store. I couldn't figure out what was wrong when, a day later, I had a disgustingly bitter flavor in my mouth. Like many here, no matter what I did, the flavor did not go away. I was lucky enough to stumble on one random suggestion on one of the many websites I looked through after identifying my issue as Pine Mouth. Brush your mouth, tongue, cheeks, and teeth with BAKING SODA! I had to do it a couple of times, but it seems to have worked. Food tastes wonderful again. Try it!

antheamccarty

12:44:54 PM on

06/10/10

I too have a case of "Pine Mouth" and I did confirm with Safeway, where I had purchased them that they were from China. The person (in the veggie section) said that she had heard similar complaints before me. I suggested she remove them from the shelves. She agreed... I have called our local news station to alert the public. I am on day 3 of this and really do not feel like eating anything because of the disgusting after effects. I implore all of you to contact the media to get the word out.....

jmilforbes

05:43:29 PM on

06/09/10

I am on my third day of the bitter chemical taste in my mouth. I had pine nuts from Trader Joe's, the ones from Korea and Russia two days before it started. I am desperate for a cure - since coffee and wine taste the worst and they are my favorite indulgences. If anyone has a remedy that works, please post!

foody1234

06:22:39 PM on

06/07/10

I just googled "chemical taste" and found your blog. I was sure I had some horrible disease after suffering for the last few days with this chemical taste. I too have been eating pinenuts over the last few days...a handful here and there. The brand is Good Sense. Made in Spain or China or Portugal. I never experienced this before but to say the least I'm dumping the rest of the package.

Mamacita13

01:05:26 PM on

05/29/10

Opps sorry for all the typos, I wish there was an edit button :-) So far I've been able to eat toast with tons of butter and not have the bitter flavor afterward. Something about the oil and fat must coat my taste buds or something. Good luck to you all who are suffering with this too. Shame on Trader Joe's for ignoring the problem.

Mamacita13

07:09:08 PM on

05/28/10

I just got pine mouth and rad both these articles hoping to find relief. Oh god, it's the worst experience ever. A constant bile and bitter flavor. I traced it to pine nuts from Trader Joe's in NYC, also listed as coming from "Korea or Russia or Vietnam" on the package. My email to TJ's only came back with reply, "this is a natural occurrence." I've eaten raw and toasted pin nuts all my life, plus pesto, and never had this happen. I'm so miserable :-( Is there any remedy? I'm on day 2 so far.

gelernter

01:02:38 PM on

05/17/10

I have cooked with and snacked on pine nuts from Trader Joes (the bag says they are a product of Korea, Russia or Vietnam, and the expiration date is February, 2011) for the past three days. Initially, no problems with a bitter taste. But on the 3rd day, both my husband and I were hit with a bitter taste at the back of our throats. His symptoms are not as strong as mine (but I ate more pine nuts than he did). I have the bitter sensation whether I eat or not, though a sip of red wine and coffee intensify the sensation. Yucch!

bills2345

09:57:38 AM on

05/08/10

i swear i do not work for the company but i have found a temporary cure for this problem. i grabbed a few pine nuts the other night and the next day EVERYTHING I ate tasted bitter, metal. wine was horrible and couldn't eat. i thought i was crazy and then went online and traced it back to the pine nuts. my doctor said this is more crap we need to worry about from china. anyway, the temporary cure is miracle frooties. i saw these on the food network months ago. it is derived from a berry that turns sour to sweet. it is used for cancer patients and just a cool thing to try which is why i originally bought it. anyway, i just drank my first glass of orange juice since i ate the pine nuts. it lasts for like a half hour but enough time to eat a meal and enjoy it.

any questions feel free to e-mail me at bills2345@aol.com b/c i simply find this very interesting and wanted to see what other people think and how they got it.

JoleenH

10:30:18 PM on

04/13/10

Fisher nuts? Sound familiar? Cans of roasted salted nuts? Well, I purchased Fisher "Culinary Touch" pine nuts (dry roasted) from Walmart Superstore. They are not rancid, expiration date is a year from now, very nice mild taste in fact. My husband and I ate the recipe I made with them, both of us grabbing another handfull as well. He ate more than I did, perhaps twice as much. I developed this pine mouth. It didn't show up for over 24 hours, and after two days I thought something was very wrong with me since everything I ate tasted bitter, so of course I googled "bitter taste" and clearly the culprit is the pine nuts. It's been 4 days now and everything is just as bitter as the first day. My husband had NO symptoms... no bitter mouth. Evidently it doesn't affect everyone. Plus, not sure if everyone did this, but I toasted them as well.

Oh, by the way, I just noticed that Fisher is honest about where they came from. Says right on the package: Contains pine nuts from China. Until I see a package that says "Guaranteed not to cause Pine Mouth, I won't put another pine nut in my mouth!!

jainyr

09:33:14 PM on

02/03/10

I wish that I had read this article before I had the horrible experience of pine mouth!! I bought a bag of pine nuts from Trader Joes. They were from Korea/Russa. I used it in a spinach recipe and then started eating them out of the bag while I was cooking. I had a few more the next day. Later on the second day, I started experiencing a metal taste in my mouth whenever I ate or drank. I was miserable. I finally found your article and felt much relief when I found out the reason. I am going to Trader Joe's tomorrow to complain. They shouldn't be selling them. I can't imagine I have to live with this for the next 2 weeks Yikes. Thanks for the article.

czr5150

11:55:09 PM on

11/29/09

I used pine nuts in a cornbread stuffing the other day on Thanksgiving. Since then after eating I've been experiencing the same bitter taste in my mouth. While cooking today it was really noticeable, my taste buds were really thrown off I couldn't tell if my receipe was cooked like usual.

jeffus3

10:08:35 PM on

11/27/09

I too have pine nut mouth after eating so pine nuts purchased from Costco. I was unlucky enough to get it the night before Thanksgiving. Not looking forward to the next two weeks!!!

lorrak

04:48:35 AM on

11/18/09

Hi to all the unfortunate. I also have this rank taste in the back of my mouth every time I eat. I had a few handfulls of Morrisons own brand pine nuts, although it says these are packaged in the UK the after ringing thier customer services they won’t disclose where it get’s the pine nuts from.

I think it would be an for us all to put down what stores we bought our pine nuts from so that less and less of us have to go through this again.



donewithpinenuts

07:27:18 AM on

10/22/09

I was always a big fan of pine nuts and always bought them from Costco. Never had a problem in the past but this bag (from China packaged in US)has really done a number on me. I cannot eat or drink anything without this horrible taste that begins at the back of my tongue. I sure hope there is no lasting effect from this. I'm miserable and it has only been two days. Thanks for your continued update on this strange ordeal!

gold55r

09:13:35 PM on

10/12/09

Concerning pine nuts, I just bought about an oz from my favorite health food store, I ate some & my husband only had a few. He has been complaining ever since about this metallic taste in his mouth, that everything he eats tastes terrible, I bought these @ Health Plus in Sandusky OH, have no idea where they're shipped from. Had it not been for this forum, I never would have figured it out. Thanks much!!! At least we know, and sometimes that in itself is a relief!

LucindaKitt

01:33:32 PM on

10/12/09

I suspect that the awful taste I have had for several days now is related to Amport Pine Nuts Best by 7-22-10 , 2039Y. I have emailed them today. I cringe at the thought of ever eating pine nuts again.

ussaw41

06:10:01 PM on

09/30/09

I am experiencing pine mouth for the 1st time, not a pleasant experience. I purchased pine nuts on 9/26/09 and made pesto. The brand pine nuts are Aurora Natural and is a product of China. The pine nuts can be described as smaller and not as white as previously purchased. I am looking for a remedy!

meganos

11:49:05 AM on

09/29/09

Thanks for the great followup, Michael! I'll be interested to see what you uncover next. It does seem like some people have been quick to "blame China" regardless of the evidence.

katcony

05:55:04 PM on

09/28/09

I, too, had this awful reaction last summer. Since I was eating at a friend's house and the problem didn't arise until days later, I couldn't investigate the source of her (damn) pine nuts. But as a result, I avoid them like the plague now because there is nothing as unpleasant to me as not being able to enjoy food. I was never a huge fan of pine nuts, but hello - pesto? And yesterday, my boyfriend was eating pignoli cookies from an Italian bakery and I could not would not partake. Poor me! (Let's check in with him in a few days though, eh?)

sarahkagan

11:59:51 AM on

09/28/09

Yes, Michael, great investigative journalism! Though I find it shocking that retailers (and, even more upsettingly, the FDA), have dropped the ball on this & left only journalists to investigate. As I said in a comment on your original post, I experienced this condition and it was very unpleasant. I used to eat pine nuts (usually from Fresh Direct) often and never had a problem with them, until one time I ate a batch that looked slightly different (smaller & darker, as if Fresh Direct had used a different supplier) and ended up with a bitter taste in my mouth for nearly 2 weeks. It took me a few days to figure out what had caused it, but when I googled "bitter taste in mouth" and saw all the info on the subject, I realized it must've been the pine nuts. I contacted Fresh Direct through their online feedback form and never heard back. I avoided pine nuts for several months afterward, but I love them so much that recently I tried a batch from Fresh Direct again (they looked normal, not like the smaller, darker ones) and they did not cause any symptoms. It's interesting that, in some cases, 2 people have eaten nuts from the same batch and only 1 person has had the symptoms. As commenter vellal pointed out, maybe it has something to do with the genetic differences in taste buds that make people experience some flavors differently? This wikipedia article that vellal recommends explains the topic well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supertaster Regardless, I find it very upsetting that these items are in our food supply and we have no idea what's causing the problem.

BonnieinHolland

08:30:16 AM on

09/28/09

Nice bit of investigation there, Michael. Well done! cheers, Bonnie

kam62850

07:39:08 PM on

09/27/09

Did everyone who experienced this taste sensation know it was from the pine nuts immediately?? I had a very strange bitterish taste in my mouth after trying a "store bought" potato salad and it was with me for 4 or 5 days after, each time I ate, but never without food in my mouth. I had, however, the same week, eaten pine nuts.

hannabell

07:13:14 PM on

09/27/09

'wflaan' is correct.

Never buy pine nuts in a regular supemarket, they are outrageously expensive and therefore have a very low turnover. Trader Joe has been a reliable source for me and so has mail order. I keep them refrigerated, and for longer term storage, I freeze them.

Moonsilver2

12:53:48 PM on

09/27/09

My husband and I were discussing this a few weeks ago and found that we both had the experience of long lasting metallic taste from our garden fresh oregano. I am no longer using my home grown oregano because of this. We have also had the pine nut experience; not as strong as with the oregano, however, just as annoying. Very interesting stuff. Thanks for the update.

claudoo

10:56:49 AM on

09/27/09

Thanks for the update. I suffered with pine mouth for two weeks after eating Flavor Tree pine nuts from Whole Foods. Sadly, it disturbed me enough that I now avoid all foods with pine nuts. I followed through with Whole Foods and asked that they remove the pine nuts or, at least, make consumers aware of the issue. I did get a generic response but not one that convinced me that they thought it was a serious issue. Perhaps those deciding on what brands of pine nuts to carry should eat a handful of the nuts, wait a couple days then make their decision.

wflaan

07:13:01 AM on

09/27/09

I always thought that this Pine Nut phenomena was due to slightly rancid nuts. Pine Nuts turn rancid VERY easily due to their high oil content. This is not new, I have noticed this several times over the past few years.

jessicavanderhoff

10:07:20 PM on

09/26/09

Weird! I get a strange taste in my mouth after eating pineapple, but it definitely doesn't last for two weeks. I'll be curious to see if they find an explanation.

vellal

09:39:51 PM on

09/26/09

I'm aure people are looking into this, but I wonder if the differences in people who do and don't get pine mouth from the same batch of nuts parallels the genetic difference noted in people who do and don't perceive bitterness when tasting PTC and PROP. (See 'supertaster' on wikipedia).

rachalbrecht

04:26:09 PM on

09/26/09

Thanks for the update! I find this truly interesting, and have been trepidatious in my pine nut eating since the original, just to be on the safe side. (I know, I'm not helping the industry.) Like the industry side, though, I'm anxious to have answers so I know what to look for in quality and what to avoid. This is the most exciting journalism on epi-log ever!

Wpc914

10:22:02 PM on

09/25/09

I've had a similar experience a number of times over the last year, except that I associated it with raw carrots that, to be honest, had seen better days. Its really frustrating for someone who likes to eat! My personal theory is that it's some sort of mold.

marketmaster

06:51:43 PM on

09/25/09

I'd love to read the rest of the article after the jump, but I barely managed to get that much. The links don't seem to be working.

marketmaster

06:51:41 PM on

09/25/09