(refactored from above) Hidden Tempo, I'm sorry you misread my comments. I wasn't commenting on content as much as explaining why your article edits and talk page contributions were clear enough indications of blockable behavior. In my opinion, of course. BLP exemptions, by the way, need to be reasonable, so it's not like the mere claim of a BLP violation suffices. Moreover, there are two living people involved, and the contention is that one of those edits of yours was a BLP violation of the other person, so to speak. I hope that clears it up.

Sorry, failed to look at the "feeble" thing. RexxS is a pretty straight shooter, and this edit summary indeed was not your best moment--one can argue, I suppose, that you've had it in for Marek since then or even before, but that's neither here nor there for now. I'm not quite sure why you want to point me to a discussion where you were blocked for a BLP violation, and unblocked on the condition that you grasp the BLP, when that's precisely what we're discussing. User:Boing! said Zebedee, of course, is the one who got this whole discussion going for you in the first place, so again, why would you want to rag on them right now? I'm asking because I just don't understand the tactics here--if I were you I'd be making friends, not pointing at old things that don't make you look good, while criticizing those who have been good to you. Now, if this is only about paraphrase, I've been teaching paraphrase for 20+ years, and I think that was a pretty good one. Take care, Drmies (talk) 23:26, 15 September 2017 (UTC) Done ― Mandruss ☎ 04:43, 16 September 2017 (UTC) My point was that the reason for your block was pretty clear. No, that doesn't mean no discussion is ever required. What it means is that not all cases are the same--some are easily nailed with a diff or two, others are shown by an overview of a particular discussion and a few other pointers. That so many admins (and other editors) agree, and that no one except for Boing, who is a very kind individual, and FT2 have chosen to even engage with you should be a pretty clear signal too. Drmies (talk) 23:26, 15 September 2017 (UTC) Done ― Mandruss ☎ 04:43, 16 September 2017 (UTC) @Timothyjosephwood - I'm a libertarian living in Los Angeles. If I wanted to argue politics, I would just need to step outside and say something that Maxine Waters and Eric Garcetti wouldn't agree with, although I might end up beaten, set on fire, or worse. The reason I am arguing so strenuously against handing me a topic ban is because I feel like William Shatner in an episode of The Twilight Zone. I have pointed out again and again that MastCell has not given us diffs of the blockable behavior, and thus I cannot specifically address his concerns and explain why I will cease this alleged editing pattern. And again and again, I am met with one of two responses: 1) Someone says that MastCell DID provide the diffs, but can't link to where he posted these diffs and do not provide them for themselves, or 2) Muddy the waters and instead focus on pre/mid-TBAN diffs, all of which are separate from the reasons that MastCell says require an indefinite block in order to protect the project. But nobody seems to think this is odd except for myself, five other editors, and an admin who declined to formally review the block. It's truly bizarre, and I'm really baffled to how this could possibly be happening when all of our words are in ink. So my already unpleasant predicament is compounded by the fact that everyone is discussing whether or not the Emperor's new clothes are too ornate, do not fit well, etc., while I (and a few others) seem to be the only editors who realize he's not wearing any clothes. Does this analogy make sense? I mixed and matched some metaphors there, but I think you get the gist. Hidden Tempo (talk) The series of responses you have given only lead me to one of two conclusions: either A) you are more concerned about arguing politics than building an encyclopedia, or B) you are more concerned about being right than building an encyclopedia. I'd invite anyone watching this conversation to arbitrarily TBAN me from any part of the project and I'd be fine with it, because I'd go somewhere else and make improvements there. You don't seem to share that sentiment. If you can learn to share that sentiment then you are useful. If you cannot, then you are not. T J W talk 00:12, 18 September 2017 (UTC) You are unique in that regard. Most editors have a few particular areas where the bulk of their edits are concentrated. I have stated many times that I am much less concerned with being right than getting it right. My personal views are checked at the door when I log in to the project. Believe me, if you topic banned MastCell from abortion or AP2 areas, he would immediately notice. You'll see that nearly all of his edits are related to promoting/protecting abortion in some way - judges who have made it harder for women to get abortions, political commentators who have denounced abortion, politicians who aren't fond of abortion, and various other AP2 articles. When you can derive nearly all of an editor's political views from their edits and sanctions (like the gentle warning he gave to Nfitz for calling a living person a "bigot" and "piece of shit" numerous times), you know there's a problem. And yet, MastCell is somehow "useful," while I am not, but of course we're all supposed to pretend this and this has absolutely nothing to do with my predicament vs. MastCell's unfettered ability to hand out diff-less AP2 sanctions. Once again, I have no desire to argue about politics - only content. For example, on Dismissal of James Comey, I made the point that the line about "Nate Silver thinks it's possible Comey's letter cost Hillary the election" should be removed, since an AAPOR scientific study found this to be demonstrably false, and made the content UNDUE and POV. My opinion of why Clinton lost (and we all have one, let's be honest) is irrelevant, and I never voiced it after I did served out my TBAN. And that's just one example. Hidden Tempo (talk) 00:32, 18 September 2017 (UTC) I'm honestly not even reading this, because it's not worth my time, and it happens that arguing with you doesn't actually improve the encyclopedia. I advise you to accept the TBAN voluntarily, and show us that you might one day be a valuable contributor. If you continue to argue I will probably change my !vote from a TBAN to an indef. Beyond that advice, I don't watch this page and I will not respond to pings. T J W talk 00:44, 18 September 2017 (UTC) Well, I appreciate the input and advice just the same. Thuc has just left an eloquent description of the phenomenon that is occurring right now on the AN board, in case you're interested. Hidden Tempo (talk) 00:52, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

@Ivanvector - Multiple users have now complained that I shouldn't be saying that MastCell's block being improper. Per WP:GAB/WP:NICETRY: "It is not enough if you just say that the block was "wrong" or "unfair", or another user violated a policy first. You must explain why it was wrong to block you, or why it should be reversed." There is nothing in the guide saying "Just make sure that you leave the blocking admin out of it, and WP:EXPLAINBLOCK exempts admins from providing diffs. Admins are divine beings since they made it through an RfA, and are thus immune to scrutiny." The reason that it was wrong to block me is in in part due to MastCell's hardline, uncompromising AP2 editing agenda, as well as his vile, elitist, tone-deaf rants against editors who do not share his ideologies.[113] You say that I am repeating the disruption in the topic area, but do not provide diffs. You say MastCell has "explained [the block] in incredible detail," but provide no diffs. Why are we supposed to take these claims at face value? At least a dozen editors have posted nearly the same exact comment, vaguely referencing this notion that MastCell has already provided the diffs and claiming/citing the supposed problematic pattern, but everybody forgets to provide the diffs. Why? I said it again and again - I have no problem acknowledging the problematic behavior and agreeing to change it, but without seeing the problematic behavior in the form of diffs, how could I possibly agree to change it? I already addressed violating 3RR in the midst of following WP:BLPREMOVE, but which edits of mine were "tendentious"? Which were "disruptive"? Which edits were "hyper-partisan"? Let's take it step by step. Let's see the diffs of these specific edits showing this return to the problematic behavior after the TBAN expired, and then we can go from there. Hidden Tempo (talk) 18:27, 18 September 2017 (UTC) Multiple users have provided the diffs, and I referenced at least one of those in my comment. That you are for some reason blind to them does not make it so that they are not there, and your ongoing demand to have things explained to you when they have already been explained in great detail is not endearing editors to your cause. Ivanvector (Talk/ Edits ) 19:22, 18 September 2017 (UTC) No, you didn't. I checked. You did the same thing everybody else did: said the diffs existed, said MastCell provided the diffs, but provided no diffs of the alleged blockable editing, nor the diffs of MastCell providing the diffs. The only diffs that have been provided are either from pre-TBAN (not the blockable editing), mid-TBAN (also not what MC cited as the blockable editing), and the 3RR (which I acknowledged occurred, admitted to, and assured the community would not reoccur). And why is that? Is it that much of a "time sink" to copy-paste a diff? See, if this is just a popularity contest to see if I'm "endearing" enough to have earned justice/diffs, I can handle that. Just say, "Look, HT. We don't have the diffs and you haven't done anything to deserve being indefinitely blocked from creating any more film articles or updating the BLP's of athletes. We simply don't like you." But this whole charade of pretending there's some enormous stockpile of diffs somewhere (which nobody can be bothered to ctrl+c and then ctrl+v) showing that I have this definitive pattern of post-TBAN problematic editing is just absurd. Hidden Tempo (talk) 19:48, 18 September 2017 (UTC) Ivanvector: Thucydides411 (talk) 21:06, 18 September 2017 (UTC) The simple fact is I don't care about the diffs, the block has been thoroughly rationalized and was thoroughly endorsed at ANI. I'm not about to hold your hand and read those discussions to you, they're there for you to look at if you could be bothered to stop wasting everyone else's time. You're blocked because of an ongoing pattern of disruptive editing that's clear to everyone except you apparently, and your behaviour throughout this block request inspires no confidence in me that you know when to drop the stick, nor that you've learned anything at all. Ivanvector (Talk/ Edits ) 21:15, 18 September 2017 (UTC) Thucydides411, you're absolutely correct. He did not post them, and neither did anyone else. Notice how Ivan is now regressing to condescension and the ol' "wasting everyone's time/time sink" slam, after what I imagine to have been an extensive double-checking of his posts to see if what I'm saying is true - "Is HT right? Did I actually not post those diffs?" After what I say checks out, he comes back here not to apologize and change his vote, but to drop a few insults and then promptly move the goalposts: "Okay well, maybe I didn't post the diffs....but I don't care about the diffs!" If I defend myself, I'm being disruptive and not taking responsibility for my behavior. If I ask for the diffs, I am told that they exist, and "No, you can't have them." I believe there's a word for this kind of tactic, but it escapes me at the moment. Either way, the moral of the story is if the powers that be want you gone, they WILL find a way, and WP:EXPLAINBLOCK is really just there for entertainment purposes only. Hidden Tempo (talk) 21:29, 18 September 2017 (UTC) Ivanvector: The accused has the right to speak in their own defense. Evidence should be made public. Then, in my personal opinion, you shouldn't be involved in discussions about sanctioning any editor. -Thucydides411 (talk) 21:36, 18 September 2017 (UTC) Sincere thanks to @Darouet and Darwinian Ape for your recent comments. You are expressing in a very calm, cogent manner, what I have been attempting to communicate for over a month, especially the analysis of the mob mentality/groupthink that DarwinianApe points out. The "oppose unblock" votes are essentially taken from the votes of others and then Frankensteined into a new edit, in a hodgepodge of Wiki terms from the exile-this-editor grab bag: "wikilawyer" (even if I don't use formal legal terms, abide by the letter of a policy over the spirit, misinterpret policy, or suggest interpretations should override the actual policies), "time sink" (don't defend yourself after being indef'd), "POV warrior" (your view doesn't match mine), and by far the worst: "you have been given diffs" (and no, we won't show you where). Darouet, thank you very much for changing your vote. Darwinian, I am very grateful for your honest and objective review of my appeal. Many editors have refused to read the related discussion and unblock request, yet feel it appropriate to a cast a vote regardless. Do you need any more information or have any questions for me in order to make you comfortable enough to cast a vote? Hidden Tempo (talk) @RickinBaltimore - Yesterday I stated "If we see these diffs, and they show what MC claims they show, I will not only admit that I'm a terrible person/disruptive/activist editor (and any other awful things contained in the diffs), but I will shout it from the rooftops. Only after we see the diffs, though." [114] In MastCell's block, at the very end, you will see this: "...repeated instances despite prior blocks and topic ban." I have asked MastCell for diffs of these "repeated instances" dozens of times over the past month (or even just ONE diff), and several other editors and an admin (FT2) have requested them as well. MastCell STILL has not provided them. How could I possibly take responsibility for something if I don't even know what I'm taking responsibility for? Not trying to soapbox with this analogy, but this is what they do in DPRK and used to do in the USSR. You go into a room, are forced to sign your confession for crimes (with the promise of leniency), but you aren't allowed to read the confession. This can't be how Jimbo envisioned as how he wants this process to work. Can it? I've said it numerous times. Show me the diffs of the "repeated instances" since my topic ban expired, and I WILL be the first to take responsibility for them, apologize for them, and explain to the community why I will not repeat these edits. But I can't do that until I SEE these edits. Is this edit really an unfair request? Is asking for these diffs really nothing more than merely more bludgeoning and wikilawyering? Please tell me so I can help resolve this. I respect and understand that you feel that I should never be unblocked, but I still feel that my concerns are being completely ignored and my appeal is being dismissed again and again as nothing more than a "time sink/"suck"/waste of the community's time. Hidden Tempo (talk) 20:30, 19 September 2017 (UTC) ┌─────────────────────────┘Three admins reviewed it actually, @MPants at work. FT2 (sorry for all the pings FT2) also reviewed it and also questioned the validity of a WP:CRYBLP claim, referring to the act of removing poorly-sourced (a Politico opinion article without the phrases "deficit of nationalism" OR "attacked his American critics,") which was stated as fact in Wikipedia's voice, and the subsequent reinstatement of the contested material without gaining consensus. Pinging @Darouet as this concerns them also. But let us not forget: the 3RR is not the primary reason for the block (in fact it was the last). I have already addressed my first ever 3RR, apologized, and assured MastCell that I would not repeat 3RR even in the case of WP:BLPREMOVE. We've moved on to the "repeated instances" of "Tendentious, hyper-partisan, agenda-driven disruptive editing; edit-warring" after my TBAN expired. And we still haven't received diffs for these repeated instances, by the way. Hidden Tempo (talk) 22:44, 20 September 2017 (UTC) HT, would you like to offer a short proposal of what you would be willing to do/accept before the discussion is closed? I did not !vote at the WP:AN discussion because I don't feel you are intentionally violating policies/guidelines. I also feel your discourse and debating skills need some improvement as you are frequently appearing to convey a message/point which may not be what you want to convey. I also see quite a bit of validity for a TBan and to a lesser extent an indef. ban which is why I am chosing not to !vote. Unintentional violation of policies/guidelines, miscommunication, your discourse -these are areas that only you, not Wikipedia, can deal with. Wikipedia is not a democracy, it is a project which has it's rules and the community decides what happens in the project, whether it seems fair or not. Think of the NCAA. They have their regulations and guidelines. Bottom line if any athlete doesn't "play by the rules" they don't get to play. It doesn't matter if the athlete didn't understand the rules, or Joe Smuck did the same thing and he wasn't sanctioned in the same way (each case is different), or that the reporter of the athlete's violation is biased because they are associated with a rival school. I think you get my point. You don't have "admit" that you are guilty of violating our policies and guidelines, you just need to "accept" that the community feels that you have and the steps you will take to prevent it from happening again, not just that you won't do it again. If you do want make a statement don't argue what you have already said. Just acknowledge that the community feels "X,Y,Z" and what steps you feel you can do to prevent what "the community feels" is necessary. For instance, disruptive editing. If you need help with this, post it on your talk page, and you will receive some suggestions and pay particular attention to those who disagreed with your defense. No matter the outcome of this, I did enjoy editing with you - we agreed some times, disagreed at others but I feel we both respect each others opinions. Best of Luck, CBS 527 Talk 13:42, 21 September 2017 (UTC) Honestly I don't really know if there's anything else to add at this point. I understand the rules, as I've been around for a while, but disagree with those who say I broke them (after my TBAN, that is). My unblock request was based off a thorough review of WP:TEND, WP:DISRUPT and WP:BLPREMOVE, and I provided diffs showing why I have been in compliance with the policies since my TBAN, with the exception of the 3RR. Of course I have agreed not to repeat the editing that MastCell/the community says is a problem, but that seems a little hollow given that we haven't seen these edits he's talking about. What seems more practical is to pledge to do a better job of handling content disputes/BLPVIO issues so that my editing won't be viewed as tendentious/disruptive, which I did, but that wasn't enough for SpacemanSpiff and others. They feel that the project needs to be protected from my editing at Jean Lake, New England Patriots, and Tony Vinciquerra. In regards to the indef TBAN with no right to appeal, I have said that editors who speak like this are not appropriate targets for a TBAN. Others disagree, and I've done all I can to convince them otherwise. Just ready for this to be over, now. Hidden Tempo (talk) 19:38, 21 September 2017 (UTC) Regardless of how the discussion turns out, I'm done with this project based on how you've been treated. A project where people are arguing that concepts of fairness don't apply, where people say evidence has been provided but then say they don't care about evidence when it's pointed out that there has been no evidence. A project where a majority of editors see no problem with this unwarranted ban. A project which has been infected by the US's nuttiness in politics, where tendentious POV-pushers of one persuasion are completely acceptable unless they go seriously off the deep end but the mighty banhammer falls on those with a different political opinion, even when they've amended their behaviour, concepts of fairness be damned. This project isn't for me, it looks like it's not for you either. There are less stressful ways of contributing to society, with far nicer, fairer, saner people. Cjhard (talk) 23:56, 21 September 2017 (UTC) MjolnirPants, you certainly are quite vested in the discussion to make sure you get your way, for an uninvolved editor. Now you're going as far as to falsely claim (as the diffs show to anyone who clicks on them) that my last comment was "full of falsehoods and wikilawyering," while canvassing for admins who you're hoping might agree with you, such as Ritchie333, Oshwah, NeilN, and even a few who are already following the discussion quite closely, such as Bishonen and Boing! said Zebedee. Personally, I like to spend my Saturdays watching college football and doing some reading, but hey, it's your free time. If you prefer to spend it pleading with admins to TBAN a fellow Wikipedian instead of editing AP2 articles, then I can't stop you. That being said, I have already called for the thread to be closed. I posted the facts, pointed out for the nth time that zero diffs and no evidence was ever given for "repeated instances" of "tendentious, hyper-partisan, agenda-driven disruptive editing; edit-warring" after my topic ban. Voters either clicked on the diffs, or they didn't (many did not, which was apparent from their "reasoning"). It was a long discussion, and it has run its course. Many pointed out that we never got any diffs/evidence of the post-TBAN "repeated instances", and many claimed we did (no diffs from the latter crew). Unfortunately, the loudest people in the room often get the most attention. It's been determined that the encyclopedia must be protected from my tendentious and disruptive edits: [115].



One of my favorite quotes of all time comes from Noam Chomsky, and it has never been more relevant: "The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum." Thanks for allowing the debate, everyone. Hidden Tempo (talk) 21:19, 23 September 2017 (UTC)