We didn't get any of that conversation in L.A. Just from an outsider looking in, [the Leafs] have all the talent in the world and it looked like they just were like, "Fuck this guy." I think it looked like the players were done playing for Babcock. The Don Cherry thing was just a really, really, really stupid thing to say. He should have just apologized and said that he was wrong. It sucks because he's Don Cherry. He was a Canadian icon. As for the hockey culture thing, I grew up in it, and I think, like anything, if it's taken too far or if it's pushed too far, it's going to go bad. But at the same time, it's a very physical sport. I had coaches yell at me, but I think it’s the intention. There’s yelling and then there's malicious, hurtful yelling, and I think that's the line.