en the spiritual body is very small?
Srila Prabhupada: You cannot imagine it. Because the materialists cannot see or measure the spiritual body, they say that it does not exist.
Syamasundara dasa: Descartes says that the soul exists, but not that it occupies space.
Srila Prabhupada: This means that his conception of space is limited. The material body is a body that has a beginning and an end. Your coat is made at a certain date. The spiritual body is changing dress from one material body to another, just as you change your clothes.
Syamasundara dasa: After the soul has fallen into matter, can it be delivered through proper knowledge?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, that is the purpose of this Krsna consciousness movement. Even if a person is an expert swimmer, how long can he swim? He will eventually succumb because he is in a fallen condition. However, if one is elevated just one inch above the water, he is immediately safe. The water may remain in its position, but he is transcendental to it. This transcendental position is Krsna consciousness.
Syamasundara dasa: In other words, the spirit soul can rise above matter, above the water.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, just like a flying fish. This fish may swim within the water, but suddenly he may fly over it. As soon as you become Krsna conscious, you can fly over the water of material existence. Then you can gradually come to land.
Syamasundara dasa: If the spirit is unlimited and has unlimited power, how does it fall within matter?
Srila Prabhupada: It does not have unlimited power. Its power is so great that in the material sense it is unlimited, but actually it is not unlimited.
Syamasundara dasa: How is it able to be confined by something as limited as a body?
Srila Prabhupada: I have already explained this. It is like falling into the water. As spirit soul, we have nothing to do with this material body, but somehow or other we have come in contact with it. There is a cause, but instead of finding out this cause, we should realize that we are in a dangerous position.
Syamasundara dasa: But if the spirit has great power, and the body has limited power, how is it that this limited power is able to hold onto the great power, to capture it and keep it?
Srila Prabhupada: The material energy is Krsna's energy, and each and every energy of Krsna is as great as Krsna. Therefore Krsna says in Bhagavad- gita:
daivi hy esa gunamayi
mama maya duratyaya
mam eva ye prapadyante
mayam etam taranti te
"This divine energy of Mine, consisting of the three modes of material nature, is difficult to overcome. But those who have surrendered unto Me can easily cross beyond it." (Bg. 7.14)
Syamasundara dasa: In other words, it is sometimes stronger than the spiritual energy?
Srila Prabhupada: When you come in contact with the material energy without a specific purpose, it is stronger. Krsna's representative comes into the material energy in order to preach. Although he is within the material energy, he is not under its control. But if you come in contact with material energy without serving Krsna's purpose, you suffer. For instance, in a jail there are many superintendents and government officials. There are also prisoners. However, their conditions differ. We cannot say that because they are all in jail that they are all suffering in the same way. The superintendent is there because he is serving the government's purpose. Therefore he is not subject to the laws of the jail. When you are in the service of Krsna, you are no longer under the laws of maya. You are liberated.
Syamasundara dasa: So the prisoners who have forgotten their real service have been weakened?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, because they have disobeyed and have forgotten their subordinate position. They want to be independent of the state, and therefore they have been put into jail.
Syamasundara dasa: Then for them, the material energy is stronger.Srila Prabhupada:
Yes. It is stronger for them. Those who are conditioned and are serving the material energy cannot escape through their own endeavor. They are dependent on the mercy of Krsna and His