he basis of what is being shown. When we see this, there is no question of anything being false.
Syamasundara dasa: Descartes sees matter operating like a machine under mechanical laws. The sum total of all motion in the world is always constant; it neither increases nor decreases. However, he claims that the soul is unaffected by mechanical causes and is therefore immortal.
Srila Prabhupada: Yet somehow or other he has been put into this mechanical process.
Syamasundara dasa: Yes, and this was Descartes's problem. He could not understand how spirit and matter interact, how the nondimensional, nonextended spirit can have a three dimensional body.
Srila Prabhupada: When you are on the land and fall into the water, your struggle begins. This means that on land you are safe, but somehow or other you have fallen into this material struggle. Spirit is spirit, and matter is matter, but now they have come in contact with one another. We have caused this contact because we have misused our independence. A boy may stand firmly beside the water, but if he wants to enjoy the water, he may fall in. If he cannot manage to swim, he is lost. This is our position. The spirit soul has a spiritual body, but he accepts a foreign body. The spirit soul has a body, and his business is to enjoy life, but because he falls within the jurisdiction of matter, he cannot enjoy his labor. As long as he is within water, there is no possibility of happiness.
Syamasundara dasa: Does the spiritual body have dimensions? Does it exist in space?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, it has dimensions. It has length, breadth, and everything. Otherwise, how can we say that it is one ten-thousandth of the tip of a hair? In other words, there is measurement, but that measurement is beyond our imagination. The soul is something different. It is inconceivable. If the spirit soul has no body, how can the material body develop? A material body is like a coat molded in the form of the spiritual body. You cannot make a dress without measuring the body.
Syamasundara dasa: Then the spiritual body is very small?
Srila Prabhupada: You cannot imagine it. Because the materialists cannot see or measure the spiritual body, they say that it does not exist.
Syamasundara dasa: Descartes says that the soul exists, but not that it occupies space.
Srila Prabhupada: This means that his conception of space is limited. The material body is a body that has a beginning and an end. Your coat is made at a certain date. The spiritual body is changing dress from one material body to another, just as you change your clothes.
Syamasundara dasa: After the soul has fallen into matter, can it be delivered through proper knowledge?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, that is the purpose of this Krsna consciousness movement. Even if a person is an expert swimmer, how long can he swim? He will eventually succumb because he is in a fallen condition. However, if one is elevated just one inch above the water, he is immediately safe. The water may remain in its position, but he is transcendental to it. This transcendental position is Krsna consciousness.
Syamasundara dasa: In other words, the spirit soul can rise above matter, above the water.
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, just like a flying fish. This fish may swim within the water, but suddenly he may fly over it. As soon as you become Krsna conscious, you can fly over the water of material existence. Then you can gradually come to land.
Syamasundara dasa: If the spirit is unlimited and has unlimited power, how does it fall within matter?
Srila Prabhupada: It does not have unlimited power. Its power is so great that in the material sense it is unlimited, but actually it is not unlimited.
Syamasundara dasa: How is it able to be confined by something as limited as a body?
Srila Prabhupada: I have already explained this. It is like falling into the water. As spirit soul, we have nothing to do with this material body, but somehow or other we have come in contact with it. There is a cause, but instead of finding out this cause, we should realize that we are in a dangerous position.
Syamas