and you know that the results or uh it it it you will you more or less know what will happen if you don't do well you more or less know what happen when you do well, and you know where it unlocks you to you know as compared to macam all these budak budak they still have not have a taste of full life macam full working employment yet


so for them they don't know they don't know exactly what they are the consequences of not, getting a respectable grade it it hasn't hit them yet so I can understand I mean we were all once students who I mean even yourself when you were in poly


you know it's the uncertainty of err okay lah, you know if I don't do well then don't do well lah you know but uh once you are in a position where you are out, that's why I think a lot of my friends yang went to you uni SIM basically err university


night university lah so dia orang juggle between the job and basically if you do that you are throwing away your life ah there's no more social life basically, err pagi pagi daytime you go to work and then err malam then you go to school


and then you rinse and repeat basically you need to find time nak buat err nak buat group assignment nak study untuk exam at the same time in the daytime you are working, is very exhausting and some of my friends did try that route, and they were successful err well kudos them


ya there's a lot of compromise err and you have to be willing to macam at least throw away one aspect of your life and typically is social lah because there's so much there's only so much sleep you can throw away


but social life go all the way no problem


she knows she knows


you probably deserve it you probably deserve it anyway please continue


no lah at first to be honest ah at first bila all this thing happen [kan] macam it's interesting err because is something novel


even with my own family tapi when this first thing happen and you will start communicating with your friends online, err at the comforts of your own home on your own bed anytime uh kerja err in your own room


it it seems fun at the beginning but afterward macam I think it depends on people also lah because ada orang ada orang boleh focus when they're at home, there's some people like myself better focused when not at home and distracted by I don't know


snacks lah toilet lah, or the bed sleep lah take a nap during lunch time tu semua for some people it it it it's harder, you know because everything is there already and we just whereas kalau macam kat tempat kerja you've got to drag your ass and then


you actually groom yourself you know you comb your hair and then, you go out you take a shower and then you feel refreshed take coffee and then you're ready to get on the go so some people


more relaxed and then they are in that environment of relaxing cause for me when I'm at home I'm always feel like I'm in relaxing punya mode, and when I'm out I feel like I'm in out mode you know when your hair is macam all wax style and then, ah you know you're wearing clothes and then you go out and eh you you just have that vibe macam I'm I'm ready to take on the work


you know macam when you're home you just want to relax lie on the bed watch video Netflix or whatever so when you you mix that kind of black and white and you get that greyish kind of area, the productivity for some people such as myself is not so good to be honest


err I don't know for me it would be doubly hard, if doubly is even a word for studying , so !aiya! I mean so


no don't get me wrong I enjoy I enjoy the break I enjoy the break in I enjoy the break in the regimen I enjoy the break in dia punya scheduling and stuff like that tapi


I don't know eh ultimately it is a state of mind lah so if you are in that state of mind and you of course you have to have discipline also


when you order you still when you order food you still need to, pay someone has to pay say you pay or your family pay


do you okay do you know that when you okay let's say when you err do delivery uh I think the so called delivery fee is about macam four dollars something like this [kan], but if you are on Foodpanda there's a system called panda pro where you pay like


eight dollars ninety cent a month or something like that and you get like twenty deliveries, it's really a good deal okay you you check it out you go to Google you just type err Foodpanda pro, and you can actually see they have macam those package and the funny thing is if that month you just order two times you already make up for it because the the most basic package tak salah is err


ten dollars and you get five deliveries that's already two dollars per delivery, so I I don't know why not more people are not into it a lot of people do ala carte


no it's like a pass lah it's not really a promo if you say promo means it's apa macam limited edition [kan] tapi it's actually has been around for awhile


circuit breaker I wasn't sure but err if you go now it's definitely available, oh well people still deliver food a lot of people still macam still work from home [pe] banyak orang work from home [pe] sekarang lah, its not like ya most offices are still closed


most people stay at home during this whole period until until the end of the year, well ya well Nurul didn't even have a break in the first place she is an essential worker lah so it's a different story but for those people who


suspect until the end of the year ah


fishy ah the Russian punya vaccine they didn't complete the trial the trial number three what


personally I think if at the by the end of the year I manage to go one vacation I'm actually more or less quite happy already, I went this year I went Jakarta once only, that was the only overseas trip I did this year


what the the the thing happened in February ya the thing happened in February what, it was very fast


ya well I think also because in err late January it was Chinese new year I had to go Jakarta but I think we were supposed, to go I mean I was scheduled to go for another vacation I think in May or


no not May err April or something ah it didn't happen anyway so ah whatever lah, well kalau at the end of this year dapat pergi dapat pergi Malaysia pun I'm quite happy already to be honest


just need a break cause okay if you think about it [kan] people other than Singapore, all the other countries at least dapat pergi somewhere within their own country [kan] so Malaysia even Malaysia or Indonesia, even though their borders are closed at least boleh pergi Penang dapat pergi I don't know


ah that one is err he was so desperate for diving that one also is, if itu bukan itu bukan dia ini tau is not like dia pergi by himself dia pergi ikut err the diving punya tour thing


you still can go pulau hantu now actually, ya, yup


nope it says err fifty seven minutes, on my timer, ya, so man I don't know now, now that I got all this part time job at least macam my sleeping schedule is a bit better


you you're only as old as you feel


sleep is for the weak having said that I got a class tomorrow at nine thirty AM


what am I doing recording this at two AM in the morning, you you go for more class I'm going for volunteer class you are going for to get re-educated upgrade education


you paid for, I use I use the SkillsFuture is paid for, I still had to pay about err thirty plus dollars that's all just uh a top up ah


twenty five thousand dollars ah [jer], I paid more for my education in my uni hello, but but I already paid my loan so I'm good no problem


what I'm done but at this stage I already have it so I'm good, no problem, ya I don't have a loan now also I am done


(hmm), how many years have I been working six maybe should be longer but I had a lot of breaks in between


it's okay, I enjoy my life well how how how do you want why are we talking about this while the thing is recording we have thirty more seconds, thirty more seconds kita kena clap eh lepas ini or


okay at this point but did they say though it must be exactly one hour or about one hour


okay <malay>tak apa tak apa tak apa</malay> (uh) it just crossed one hour for me so I am gonna turn it off right now


#heng chee# how I got red light cannot,


what have I been up to recently I guess , apart from continuing the CSC coaching right which is kind of like the stable thing


, , ya lor like I told you the other day, some new client so, , an ex colleague of mine err referred a direct client lah because she's a recruiter, , and she was working with this firm


then, ya lah cause so they were talking about the company's needs and then invariably you know right cause it's about leadership, it's not just recruiting the right people for the position but is about, the organisational culture so, gradually the conversation turned to coaching lor and then she shared with her err what I what I'm doing lah


so, for the individual, so, sort of coaching for the individual but as with, all things coaching and leadership and culture is not just the the person mah I mean it doesn't stop at the person lah so it's also the organisation


so (ppc), ya lah anyway long story cut short is started coaching lor that's the client I told you recently I got and then DEG and then looking to do, probably a leadership workshop or MOTM modified that sort of thing that talks about err organisational things lah but also


sort of like came


okay,


I saw I saw ya ya ya


, ya , but you are using it for


, (mmhmm)


outcome, , , , ,


, or to summarise for you lah is your own take away lah right


, , , okay


, (uh huh), ,


, , ya ya, ,


, , make sense


chris, chris Tay, as a problem presenter, !yay! ya


, but,


, ya, ya


, but, (mmhmm), ya


ya,


ya, (ppc), ya


, ya, tens of thousand or hundred thousand !wah! okay (ppc) including land ya lah <mandarin>是的是的是的:shi de shi de shi de</mandarin> <mandarin>我没有想到那块地有没有我只是在想:wo mei you xiang dao na kuai de you mei you wo zhi shi zai xiang</mandarin> the structures the instructors


true true


, , , ya


ya, okay, , ya


, ya, five senses okay (ppc)


sight sound smell touch taste (uh huh), then six leh <mandarin>你讲:ni jiang</mandarin> six, [orh] okay the exhilaration the Kanchiongness the whatever lah that comes out okay


ah okay okay right right right, [orh] okay


, , ya, (uh huh), right


(mmhmm), (mmhmm), okay


, (ppc), correct ah


different ya, (ppc), (ppc) , ya


, ya


, yup yup


, right, the question is then, do we need to like <mandarin>补充:bu chong</mandarin> from other aspects


is it accepting that you will always be less and then it's okay and learn to live with that it's okay or it will be less so let's do let's ramp up the rest or do something else that will sort of complete the hundred percent


, but <mandarin>有这个必要补充吗:you zhe ge bi yao bu chong ma</mandarin> I guess that's the question


ya,


, , true


, , is the is the <mandarin>西游记:xi you ji</mandarin> concept right <mandarin>就是:jiu shi</mandarin> <mandarin>就是我:jiu shi wo</mandarin> go through the process, he sometimes


is the is the <mandarin>猪八戒:zhu ba jie</mandarin> that kind of experience everything along the way and just leave it lah


yes, , , [orh] then it's like


, , correct, and the dots didn't connect as well right might have


, ya,


(ppc) this week and then next week and then one or two weeks later I say cannot cannot, you need to at least have three to four weeks in between a a two sessions


you need time to experiment and do some of the things that we might have talked about in the session right it's really for that to settle lor it really just needs time to settle <mandarin>因为:yin wei</mandarin> you cannot rush this is it's also a knowledge based teaching right if not <mandarin>你去上一个:ni qu shang yi ge</mandarin> online course then read a coaching book and you're done lah correct or not


ya so, no lor which is which is ya the itself is a learning


yup, (mmhmm),


, Kadoori


oh okay, sounds indian, sounds indian, like kardashian Kadoori


(mmhmm)


, (ppc), ,


yup, , ,


right, , correct


, , , but that would be err just to interrupt but that would be how to say, , not not even on a <mandarin>怎么说呢:zen me shuo ne</mandarin> it means it if it happens it happens to only specific individuals right therefore some other individuals something else may happen they forgot to bring or they brought the wrong size or they whatever lah they put right on top so then your debrief is for everybody in this different situations or that specific one


, yup, (uh huh)


ya it's interesting ya, yup, yup,


, ya


, right, ya, okay, yup yup


, , (uh huh)


, yup, but just side note lah there's another app that does that


without access to a family link, our church we did the amazing race the other time <mandarin>你不是看到我在:ni bu shi kan dao wo zai</mandarin> #telok ayer# lor <mandarin>这边晒太阳:zhe bian shai tai yang</mandarin> so in that particular event there is an app I have I have to I think it's called three sixty app or something like that, where you basically everyone logs in right then you can see everyone who's in that app


personal family thing ya let me go find the name but there is one such apps, ya so you can see the teams


, ya, cause they don't like it, , ya , I totally understand ya <mandarin>了解了解:liao jie liao jie</mandarin> so


okay, I have, I have I attended one or <mandarin>没有:mei you</mandarin> okay I try to design something for a study group with err


alright because that in itself is like one session, so it was a little bit, you know a bit like, ran I won't say random a bit like err


ya zachary and his friend lor thirteen fourteen, ya so the other guy is quite tech savvy because he has used a a similar, app called Trello or something, ya but <mandarin>我这个没有了完全没有动过啊:wo zhe ge mei you le wan quan mei you dong guo a</mandarin> okay


so ya lah I knew it was a bit challenging because unfamiliar <mandarin>我自己不是说很熟对吗因为刚刚学不久:wo zi ji bu shi shuo hen shu dui ma yin wei gang gang xue bu jiu</mandarin> then had to teach her some basic things and then tried to, I will say curate a journey or create something but there were, it was it was it was a geography lesson so there were some pictures and there were some links ah then I tried to ask them than on the whiteboard to


to summarise a particular note a piece on err a page that they were reading and present it lor, (ppc) so <mandarin>就是这样:jiu shi zhe yang</mandarin> lor but, I do want to use more of it but I don't know how, but I like it very much


, ya there is like !wah! then you see this guy who teach us like so amazingly created the whole thing what it was very good, err chris <mandarin>的朋友:de peng you</mandarin> lor the one that


Jio-Ed, I think it's Fabian lah ya ya ya, correct, correct, so it was good also lah to see how I can use that for LSP


, compared to, or #isman tanuri#, I've been visiting his website I've been kind of reading up what he does


ya which I discovered when I was on his website then I'm like, ya I I saw then like oh interesting


, , (mmhmm),


ya, oh is it


and and also <mandarin>两个钟:liang ge zhong</mandarin> ah, K,


okay


, he he shares office #kok hua# shares office with terrace office [orh] okay, okay no wonder okay


where is that, okay, old HDB is a HDB block lah


, oh HDB hub okay alright, I think so okay


I see, right right


, (mmhmm)


, okay that that's the that's the <mandarin>重点:zhong dian</mandarin> right


, right


okay side side note lah this liberating structures has been coming up but because IF did it and then there is a series to talk about it and then IL also I think, did it or whatever ya so <mandarin>我就什么来的啊:wo jiu shen me lai de a</mandarin> then <mandarin>你有现在你又再讲多一次:ni you xian zai ni you zai jiang duo yi ci</mandarin> so okay I'm gonna park that aside I'm just going to mention that that is something that


, structures


(uh huh) yes


okay, (mmhmm), okay, okay


okay, , so, wait ah


(mmhmm), okay


, so you are using so in summary <mandarin>话说回来:hua shuo hui lai</mandarin> is you are using miro to summarise your fireside chats with colin beard, and


through the experience of miro demonstrate, experiential learning on a online platform, okay


oh yes I eh no, okay I haven't seen that I saw the happy, happy happiness project one,


oh !wow!,


!wah! very good, ya lah have to lah


so your layout design everything all come into play,


, , , ya ya correct


cause ya cause <mandarin>他这里想来这里讲:ta zhe li xiang lai zhe li jiang</mandarin> but may not be the details may not be all there right, yup


, , yup


, yup,


ya which is to simulate an experiential learning of some sort lah, okay


right,


ya ya, whether you want to see or not right


okay,


ya correct,


, (uh huh)


(mmhmm), I see, right


yup yup, right, ,


, yup


but your five day is not like five continuous days or it could be five weeks for example,


I agree, ya, ya,


, I totally understand , I think I do ya


yup, (mmhmm)


, another thing to manage my dear


(mmhmm), gone through, right, yup,


oh okay, right, is it the fourteen, (uh huh), okay


oh okay, right, , okay


yup yup, which one


yup, I see


ya lah I'm also very curious, [orh] okay, ,


, okay that's interesting


yup, , ya lah for sure, ya lah but it's not impossible


, okay, pause ah, err I'm just watching time, ya but also in the conversation moment <mandarin>我们讲了这么多:wo men jiang le zhe me duo</mandarin> right coming back to


I mean for me I'm just linking the dots of a couple of things that we've been talking about not just today but over WhatsApp and you know when we met, so <mandarin>你做了这么多:ni zuo le zhe me duo</mandarin> right and feeding back to chrysalis right what does it mean for


what you want to do and, how how are you moving forward with all these things that you are doing what is it translating to,


, ya, ya, ya


, , two two hundred, ,


ya, ,


, , absolutely different absolutely different


, , ya


no problem, , that ya


, yup,


, dog ya


, , , okay


(uh huh), ya, ,


, , how does it fit to what in how or how do these, feed and fit into what you already


have, meaning, meaning like the Udemy thing it is, so I'm just kind of form trying to, join the dots mah so I can see that Udemy thing create I mean I can see how it comes out and how is an extension of what you were doing right


your, your school training and your experiential learning all that right


and the mentoring of youths all that so how is there something that can mix with that as well,


(mm), ya ya, (mm)


this is really funny, doesn't matter, then what you want restart ah


(ppc) okay so


but coaching for like the individual or like the organisation or okay


(oo)


, !aiya! which reminds me I haven't register yet !aiya!


err <mandarin>可以啦等一下你才:ke yi la deng yi xia ni cai</mandarin> WhatsApp <mandarin>我:wo</mandarin> lor because I keep forgetting I'm I'm working on I'm working on a mirror bot you heard of mirror right ya so I've been working on a mirror bot and because I think


the mirror board right so, it is taking more time than I thought it would and then after a while you like I give up because it's the technicalities of it, so <mandarin>好像要:hao xiang yao</mandarin> click <mandarin>哪里啊:na li a</mandarin> ya then after that <mandarin>还要去接哪里到哪里:hai yao qu jie na li dao na li</mandarin> but after awhile right actually it gets its get easier so like the whole


tomorrow so tomorrow I shall follow up from the fireside chat with professor colin beard, so, I think being singaporean lah it is just just just the <mandarin>的讲话讲话讲话:de jiang hua jiang hua jiang hua</mandarin> then <mandarin>你有那个:ni you na ge</mandarin> eh and then <mandarin>怎样:zen yang</mandarin> you know that kind of <mandarin>感觉:gan jue</mandarin> ya because it's it's a lot of talk right like oh the future of experiential learning is like that like that like that and then because he is quite academic and he is quite er he will quote he will quote from this book that book this is the story blah blah blah and then after he tell finish the story ah people after that like err so your point is not very concrete ah the the it doesn't feel concrete


so even after <mandarin>我跟他讲话了之后:wo gen ta jiang hua le zhi hou</mandarin> like I told him I said you know after we did the conversation it didn't feel anchored, right so then he said oh but the points are all there so I say yes the points are all there but I think I'm not sure if it's just a singaporean thing right that there's no concrete he might not have a concrete take away like what's next then then what do I do with this information because I think from a


take down your notes <mandarin>怎样去用你的:zen yang qu yong ni de</mandarin> notes <mandarin>怎样去:zen yang qu</mandarin> explore <mandarin>是你的事了吗不是我的事:shi ni de shi le ma bu shi wo de shi</mandarin> to help you to transfer that learning <mandarin>对吗:dui ma</mandarin> in that sense lah


ya ya (ppc) ya so so initially when I came up with the fireside chats I did think about having the follow up, but that was not like a concrete thing yet it was just a thought in my head to say maybe after because we had three session <mandarin>吗三个三个:ma san ge san ge</mandarin> session then <mandarin>这个:zhe ge</mandarin> so every session is a different group of participants


so then I thought you know if we have a follow up two to three hour session after that to just pull things together and get people to start doing something, because the other thing that I also know a lot of us most of us lah <mandarin>啊我们上了:a wo men shang le</mandarin> talk <mandarin>了:le</mandarin> hor <mandarin>之后:zhi hou</mandarin> or we have a conversation ah the action don't take place one the action always needs to be created also so if I I think from an organisers perspective I also feel that


so so then I thought okay lah maybe have a follow up but then the follow up also require me to go and learn lah to go and do something about it right so the question the big question that came up in the entire conversation was how you bring experiential learning into a virtual space


right because especially for those who are in the outdoors right let say you think about forest school, you think about err people who do expeditions or camps


ya so that that that that's the thing right so that was the what what what was discussed eventually was that it's not impossible to do, right is again how much you want to invest, and actually the pivotal moment for me interestingly wasn't a conversation with it in terms of that that framing ah wasn't with colin it was actually with #yan kai#


ya so Yan ya so I think #yan kai# you all had that AL session right where chris brought up the challenge of, how to bring LSP, onto an online platform, or was it AL


chris Tay, that, chris brought up, brought it up as a as a challenge lah as a problem statement and I think maybe maybe even if it's not chris he also have an idea that


this community in terms of experiential learning they will face challenges right because, I think I think I also can envision lah like if you AT one AT two where it's individual, err no no no worries right I just have to spend money to just mail the kids out to you lah if I really really want to go down that route right then what happens in the collaborative phases like you need to point out oh this is the one that I'd like to share this and then put it onto the same model


how to how to do that right so that was the part that will be challenging lah so, the thing is it's not impossible to do <mandarin>你有没有要花那个钱:ni you mei you yao hua na ge qian</mandarin> to invest in that technology lor to go and to go and bring it across lah to in that way lah to say that you know


err so so VR is one and people have been using VR and so so my aha moment was in actually all the outdoor programmes right we actually made a lot of investment already (ppc) now is <mandarin>我们不愿意放下那个:wo men bu yuan yi fang xia na ge</mandarin> investment to reinvest


for example if I am a campsite I'm a campsite owner right I will have invested in building the challenge course I will have invested in auditing the challenge course I will have invested in having that piece of land I will invested in in in


whether it's the tents or the the rooms the dormitories that I build or whether it is the kayaks that I have so I have all the physical, tangible things that I have invested in right which would have cost me at least a few hundred thousands of dollars ya hundred in ah land rental land rental <mandarin>都很多了不要讲其他东西:dou hen duo le bu yao jiang qi ta dong xi</mandarin> so


(ppc), then <mandarin>你每年还要:ni mei nian hai yao</mandarin> audit leh <mandarin>你还要:ni hai yao</mandarin> repair <mandarin>还有:hai you</mandarin> maintain, er so all those things that is that's right so so the thing is now that we are going into this new


new direction right so called let's say we want to bring in, now if I take this this similar investment tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars that I've already pumped in whether through investment or whether through my own savings whatever right and I just port it over and say how can I built an online space that will create that


right so whether it is a website a portal then I have to I have to employ lah to employ coders programmers to come and help me build that space then whether it is VRR whether is AR, whatever that is possible then I I built it lah the the other thing that is err they will continue to be a challenge err unless everybody has access to that technology that means every part participant


is a so when we are in an experiential learning environment, we will assess our five five to six senses, right so five senses will be err, your sight sound sight sound smell touch


sights sounds smells touch taste, minimum <mandarin>是这个:shi zhe ge</mandarin> five lah so, so, six ah six is the is a is a feeling


ya, ya and also like just having interaction with people lah like the feeling of belonging right so so in colin what colin beard share is there is seven though seven dimensions lah


like the court the cognitive the emotive err the the the the, can't remember lah then there's the the ah so then the first four is the easier one so your thinking your feeling your sensing these are easier to achieve in a face to face


right the ones that are a bit more complex to achieve will be the sense of belonging to the human, the sense of belonging to more than human so it's your environment or the spiritual if you want to go down that route, and then the sense of being yourself so this three might be a bit more complex to achieve


so so in the online space now err even if you don't touch on all these yet right we just touch on the five senses sight and sound very easily achieved already, by all these like zoom lah google lah, err <mandarin>就就就:jiu jiu jiu</mandarin> can provide that already lor <mandarin>对不对:dui bu dui</mandarin> so the the challenge is smell lah right so smell is depending on what where you are at it will smell whatever you smell depending on where I'm at I will smell whatever I smell mah so already makes our experiences different


right so when we have to discuss and and debrief and whatever right then there is no common there is no shared experience to the extent, right so even taste also unless I send the same food to your house, then we can talk about food right if we if if err but the challenge will come like let's say like for example will do outdoor cooking I can send the equipment to your place right but how you cook it and how I cook it will probably taste different


then unlike if in in a campsite setting <mandarin>我们烤焦了:wo men kao jiao le</mandarin> hor <mandarin>就是我们一起吃烤焦的是对那个饭:jiu shi wo men yi qi chi kao jiao de shi dui na ge fan</mandarin> #chao ta# <mandarin>了:le</mandarin> hor <mandarin>我们还是吃一样:wo men hai shi chi yi yang</mandarin> #chao ta# <mandarin>的东西:de dong xi</mandarin> you know that kind of thing so so so we we have a shared experience in that sense right so the intention of having such experiences in a face to face the shared experience plays a part in the experiential learning ah in this case now err how do we recreate that


so one of the things that came out <mandarin>是:shi</mandarin> we cannot lor, we need to be able to accept that, we will never have a hundred percent replication of what happens in a face to face lah


uh, ya, so so my err so because I said like our is three fireside chat sessions right so actually we will be evolved in our response also because we hear from other people as well right


so by the last err fireside chat session I did mention ah that we need to be able to say that whatever that we deliver in in an online space will never be hundred percent be able to take out and bring to a physical space either, right so there will be some give and take


so is your level of of of understanding of what experiential learning is and whatever you are also willing to work with


<mandarin>因为:yin wei</mandarin> if you go back to fundamentals right experiential learning <mandarin>就是:jiu shi</mandarin> learning through experience mah


err like reflect upon it lor, ya to read like in a in a, and then also depending on which which generation of of experiential learning you're looking at lah the very first generation experiential learning <mandarin>是:shi</mandarin> the mountain speaks for itself


(ppc) ya but <mandarin>唐三藏:tang san zang</mandarin> must <mandarin>唐三藏:tang san zang</mandarin> sometimes he will debrief lah


ya so ya so so it depends on like which school of thought you belong to also lah it's just that now this current phase we are in right we are very condition into <mandarin>要有一个人在那边做:yao you yi ge ren zai na bian zuo</mandarin> debrief <mandarin>要有一个人去:yao you yi ge ren qu</mandarin> curate <mandarin>那个:na ge</mandarin> reflection


and from organisational perspective whether you are a school or a company, err they will always ask you so at the end of the day how do I know that my participants learnt right then you !eeyer! don't need to know lah is not, ya it it ya <mandarin>是:shi</mandarin> so so I mean I have been trying to challenge the system I say what if they don't learn anything now but it only happens in six years' time


and then they have that ah ha moment right to say that or you know I attended this program or this workshop or this training or this camp six years ago I didn't understand what that mean know until today then I actually ah ha it ya the [orh] like [orh] that's what it means


so then unfortunately I'm not in your life until six years later right then I can't debrief you then say ah okay so tell me more I can't tell I can't right but that doesn't mean that the participant didn't learn just that the learning might not have been as deep at that point in time versus


ya because you don't have enough life experiences yet perhaps, ya so so !aiya! <mandarin>就是这样啦:jiu shi zhe yang la</mandarin> so so so that's something that also kinda like hit me and it's something for you to consider as well as you move into and I think it's already happening especially in coaching


and now that I do like getting a bit more like in I don't say in tune lah but getting a bit more exposed to coaching right, the reason for coaching to have like follow up like it's a series <mandarin>不是一次就就:bu shi yi ci jiu jiu</mandarin> settle <mandarin>了:le</mandarin> is a series <mandarin>是因为:shi yin wei</mandarin> the the space in between each session


creates meaning for the entire ex the entire coaching experience, and that's,


uh,


, , ya


right <mandarin>就是哦你去你去你去:jiu shi o ni qu ni qu ni qu</mandarin> do a team


but you don't actually have have the, you a lot of people don't look at what happens when you walk from this activity to the next activity what happens right or or when you send them to the bunk and prepare their bed


or you send them to the kitchen and they actually having their meal together, all these are also moments where things settle, where things err happen it's all part of the experience , we perhaps need to spend a bit more time in that curation he gave an example of


cause he !aiya! he very proud lah of his his his (ppc) how to say his engagements so he's engaged by this organisation in hong kong, that runs a farm on a spiritual mountain they call themselves the Kadoorie farm


ya so Kadoori apparently is a very rich family lah in in hong kong so they own the entire land on that that mountain right and then they, very I don't know is it indian, don't know so the


oh ya that's true kadeshian right so


right so he will he will curate some activities in the session itself too, reinforce what he's trying to bring across lah so that is his uh his initial form of it but Kadoori farm themselves actually because they host the entire event


they created an experience within the farm itself so I think on the second night that they are there, err on the way to dinner you need to kind of like walk along the slopes to get to the next place <mandarin>他们:ta men</mandarin> put candle light along the way


then <mandarin>动到很很很:dong dao hen hen hen</mandarin> homely <mandarin>很:hen</mandarin> ethereal kind of feeling right to to create that sense of spiritual mountain lor you know that kind of thing (ppc) to to bring across that lah so when he described it as like !wow! that's so nice right because that adds onto the entire flavour of the experience is not just going for lesson or going for course and not just thinking in your mind cognitively understanding that oh I am in on a spiritual mountain but you experience in the entire like sight smell sense you know the whole the whole works lah so


that was really nice and now that's the in between part it wasn't something that is part of the lesson or part of the activities it was just going for dinner, it wasn't even having dinner yet it was just on the way there, right so that was a and and that's the thing about after that I kind of connected the dots a little bit also like how


err having the experiential learning thing online now actually doesn't mean that I have to sit through an eight hour, program which is a typical face to face right what if I chop it up into a two three hour than two three hour than two three hour and then


err certain things ah for example like we we will ask participants in a real face to face session right to okay pack your backpacks now, and then that's that's a lesson on its own, err then you teach like okay which one, what do you place where in terms of arrangement for you to pull out first pull out next that kind of thing if you really do really need it


and then, after <mandarin>你:ni</mandarin> pack <mandarin>了好:le hao</mandarin> right sometimes we don't debrief everything we just let you <mandarin>误打误撞:wu da wu zhuang</mandarin> and then do whatever failure that you have but because we bring we actually bring you out and then when let's say suddenly rain then your rain jacket is right at the bottom then you like Siao <mandarin>了:le</mandarin> lah then how then I gotta dig dig everything to just get my rain jacket out right but you learn and I'm there to guide you in that learning right but now in this


ya ya


ya, correct, ya, because <mandarin>他们他们:ta men ta men</mandarin> still going as a group mah


and then the debrief point would be we might address individuals to say okay why what happen for you just now what so what did we learn from all these lah like we need to prep we need to plan, we need to have a better understanding of


what is needs versus wants for example so prioritising, you know and then depending again on the skill of the instructor lah or the facilitator right then can we so the double loop single loop triple loop whatever right so, so from there then we say okay so again depending on age of the children or the participant right if there if they are primary school very difficult to say also then how did you do this when you go back to school then they like !huh! I don't pack my back my maid pack for me you know that kind of thing so so the transference a bit different but when they're older like their polytechnic or JC on you can ask them like so how does this prioritising of needs and wants look like in your life


like back pack in your in your life whether as a student or as a child or as a friend how does that look like so they can do that that is is what double look already right err the transference, but when for younger [ones] a bit difficult lah but overall everyone can still learn from each other


but when it when it's online (ppc) it's a bit trickier because especially now with social distancing you shouldn't intermix and you shouldn't, you know if it's not necessary to meet up don't meet that person or something like that right so in this case we can still teach the the participants to pack their bags


right so we can still show them or they they we can still get then to discuss (ppc) how to pack their bags and then physically show lah like now right like my back here and then I show you how I'm putting things in and everything, the gap in between will be said okay now that you have pack your bag right I like you to go and take a walk go to the park connectors


do a one day with whatever you have to a half a day or one day trek, but that becomes very self directed you can don't do it I cannot track you unless I say turn on your GPS we connect all our GPS together, then I need to have access lah to the family link if we are using android I think if you are iphone it's a different way to to track right


so that came be, (ppc) oh is it, uh uh uh, uh


uh okay okay, okay, ya


don't like they don't want


so it's really really trying to get them to learn how to use the phone which is also a pain but ya so so that's why I have family link lor so that I can link their their they are my children lah I'm I'm the parental expert, ya so


ya, so so ya lor but the thing is also like the age group lah if they are younger <mandarin>你叫他们不可能叫他们去:ni jiao ta men bu ke neng jiao ta men qu</mandarin> PCN <mandarin>吗自己走:ma zi ji zou</mandarin> then <mandarin>他们的:ta men de</mandarin> parents might not allow, (ppc) so these are some of the challenges that we need to think through to overcome lah


which is why, which is why I was experimenting with mirror because, I don't have you have you tried mirror


aren't they quite tech savvy,


(ppc) ah


, the conceptual thinking gets fired up right, ya


chris <mandarin>的朋友:de peng you</mandarin> Fabian lah, okay okay, yup yup, (ppc), (ppc)


, he's more introversion ah also I think, compared to Isman, ya #isman tanuri# is like like an energy ball


ya, apparently err <mandarin>谁啊:shui a</mandarin> err Lin <mandarin>是他的:shi ta de</mandarin> associate ah, oh I didn't know until Sri told me


then like, then because I was talking to Isman then I've been prompting him I say you go and do podcast also then initially he say he don't want, the recent conversation I had with him about a week ago err then he said oh his exploring podcast with Lin then <mandarin>我就为什么:wo jiu wei shen me</mandarin> of all people <mandarin>你:ni</mandarin> explore with Lin


okay I know it's a reaction and it's a judgement, err <mandarin>我不觉得:wo bu jue de</mandarin> Lin <mandarin>是一个很:shi yi ge hen</mandarin> exploratory <mandarin>一个很:yi ge hen</mandarin> experimental <mandarin>的人:de ren</mandarin> leh


you you know what I mean right so, so <mandarin>他:ta</mandarin> and he is actually very he's actually quite, err willing to try one he's quite, ya experimental also in that sense, so <mandarin>在想你跟他做:zai xiang ni gen ta zuo</mandarin> podcast <mandarin>你会不会被:ni hui bu hui bei</mandarin> hold back <mandarin>然后你们会不会一直:ran hou ni men hui bu hui yi zhi</mandarin> curate <mandarin>那个:na ge</mandarin> topic <mandarin>一直想一直想一直想然后不会很:yi zhi xiang yi zhi xiang yi zhi xiang ran hou bu hui hen</mandarin> natural when Isman himself is a very spontaneous ya I feel he's a very spontaneous kind of person


ya so <mandarin>他讲:ta jiang</mandarin> so <mandarin>我也没有讲太多:wo ye mei you jiang tai duo</mandarin> lah because through WhatsApp <mandarin>没有我讲:mei you wo jiang</mandarin> oh that's great, great that you are exploring it then how, err, because after I attended Fabian session Fabian charged <mandarin>五十块:wu shi kuai</mandarin> for <mandarin>他的两个钟:ta de liang ge zhong</mandarin> right or something like that Isman <mandarin>才三十八块钱:cai san shi ba kuai qian</mandarin> leh


ya <mandarin>也是一个天一个地:ye shi yi ge tian yi ge de</mandarin> err , because I think like, ya about there, and in fact I think I feel lah I feel I don't know is an energy thing or what but I feel that Ismam


seems to know his stuff a bit better, so because our session with Isman <mandarin>是全部认识的:shi quan bu ren shi de</mandarin> #kok hua# terrace Choo myself and #vadi voo#


so #kok hua# <mandarin>就问我我讲:jiu wen wo wo jiang</mandarin> okay then say okay that's two of us let me go and find two other then <mandarin>他自己去找:ta zi ji qu zhao</mandarin> lor so terrace <mandarin>是:shi</mandarin> terrace <mandarin>是蛮:shi man</mandarin> straightforward <mandarin>的:de</mandarin> he shares office with terrace and he I think he's quite close your terrace lah


(ppc), ya ya ya, ya ya #kok hua# shares his office with terrace and, and another lady lah because now so he because he got space mah there's there's three tables in his in his office space


and it's quite a nice cosy space lah <mandarin>我有我有跟他用过:wo you wo you gen ta yong guo</mandarin> then after a while <mandarin>我就讲说呃我不经常进来就可能不要去用不要不要不要继续用:wo jiu jiang shuo e wo bu jing chang jin lai jiu ke neng bu yao qu yong bu yao bu yao bu yao ji xu yong</mandarin> lor, #bukit merah# central, uh the old HDB


err, <mandarin>真的真的:zhen de zhen de</mandarin> so before #toa payoh# it was at at #bukit merah#, so now HDB is at as in the office is at #toa payoh# right


ya ya ya ya it used to be at #bukit merah# central, so <mandarin>他们把整个:ta men ba zheng ge</mandarin> building, kind of convert into offices, but apparently <mandarin>他们已经:ta men yi jing</mandarin> stop <mandarin>租了:zu le</mandarin> that means they stop renting it out


(ppc) ya so #kok hua# is get apparently getting at quite a good rate <mandarin>他他不会:ta ta bu hui</mandarin> charge <mandarin>很多:hen duo</mandarin> to to share the office with him, ya is is reasonable for the location lah, ya so, err so ya lor so that he went to find I don't know how he found #vadi voo# I have no clue but ya so the four of us attend and because like #kok hua# and myself we have been following


quite a bit on this nero thing, err, ya because I think joshua davis err, ya he, he I mean I I can't remember where I I chance upon him I think was also cerie who introduced him to me not him but really just the program to say !hey! you know this person's conducting for me you know if you want to


like get an experience then you can attend his session and he was doing it for free this guy is from he's an #ang moh# ah but he is based in hong kong


so, ya ya so so so because round thats why <mandarin>我们我们很多人都:wo men wo men hen duo ren dou</mandarin> attend <mandarin>此时那个:ci shi na ge</mandarin> session <mandarin>很多人:hen duo ren</mandarin> attend and he he he actually had a one week series


so <mandarin>他他的整个:ta ta de zheng ge</mandarin> one week series <mandarin>都是用:dou shi yong</mandarin> miro board then different day <mandarin>他就:ta jiu</mandarin> do, so one one day he talks about how just how to use the miro board you know like how how to use the sticky notes and [dah] [dah] [dah] all those things right so one then he just let you play around and and explore and then he guides and then he gives a bit of idea then another day he talks about liberating structures and another day he talks about err how do you introduce icebreaker blah blah blah that king of thing so different


cup the square <mandarin>有:you</mandarin> speak about it is it


(ppc) ya


, , ya, ya ya


so liberating structures was actually meant for meetings not so much actually for the online space he didn't start the the authors of that book called liberating err I think it's called liberating structures did it to to basically have a different twist to meeting lah it's just like how LSP is putting a different twist to meetings right instead of the same old same old boring one person talk only is is allowing you to have different tools or different approaches to


to conduct your meeting so that people's voices are heard everyone has an opportunity to share you don't you don't divert to your phone and just blank out and zone out right for the meeting, but I think its being used a lot more on the online space seems to be especially with miro err I think they're just combining the techniques lah err to to make the the online space a bit more engaging


ya so, so ya I think <mandarin>就是:jiu shi</mandarin> <mandarin>就是看到看到:jiu shi kan dao kan dao</mandarin> Isman <mandarin>看到:kan dao</mandarin> is <mandarin>看到:kan dao</mandarin> Isman <mandarin>的:de</mandarin> example I was more inspired I suppose compared to Fabian'S session


to want to try and do something then just so happened that this opportunity and I'm like oh you know I'm having a session on the thirteenth of august, and I want to demonstrate lah how you can bring experiential learning online right it will not be the hundred percent of what we used to know but there are elements of it that you can bring on it


right so, (ppc)


ya so I won't I won't say that it is used to summarise err the summary of the fireside chat is converted into an ebook, yes I just posted on LinkedIn last night,


ya the happiness project one <mandarin>那个不是我做的那些是那些学生做的所以他们多辛苦我都不懂这个是我自己做的所以是蛮辛苦的:na ge bu shi wo zuo de na xie shi na xie xue sheng zuo de suo yi ta men duo xin ku wo dou bu dong zhe ge shi wo zi ji zuo de suo yi shi man xin ku de</mandarin> ya because he had a seven page summary and the way that colin does his, his writing is through talking


so he use he uses a surface pro a Microsoft surface pro and then he turns on the audio which will transcribe for for him


<mandarin>是的所以我收到那个草稿七七面:shi de suo yi wo shou dao na ge cao gao qi qi mian</mandarin> leh it's a summary leh <mandarin>七面:qi mian</mandarin> leh


and then I need to space it out so that, the the font and the text can be read like


to to do it lor, then <mandarin>弄到我的眼睛都花了:nong dao wo de yan jing dou hua le</mandarin> because <mandarin>一直要:yi zhi yao</mandarin> peer into the laptop like okay is the alignment then this word then some parts like trying to have to make sense like when colin says this what does he mean


then like have to paraphrase or try to make sense because some of the things he he I don't it's really a spoken language is not a written language,


so so <mandarin>你讲的时候你就会讲说:ni jiang de shi hou ni jiu hui jiang shuo</mandarin> are making sense tools are more bonnie wright <mandarin>的可能是:de ke neng shi</mandarin> making sense with some more, so so the spoken and the it's spoken because it's very fast and the brain skips over certain


and then in the brain them reconnects it and make make up that perception right but when its written and you are reading every word jumps out, and then every word will kinda of like try and registers especially if you are a very visual person


right audit auditory people we we get the nuances and then it's not just the words it's the tonality, right but whereas it when your visual it's it's what it is, that you can't there's no tonality in a read in the in the in the written word in that sense you you infer the tonality in your mind


and therefore the words played a very big part in how to intonate, right so so so ya lah then I was like <mandarin>我在那边:wo zai na bian</mandarin> then <mandarin>我就想:wo jiu xiang</mandarin> I sent back to him I'm like please don't make edits pleased don't make edits, because <mandarin>我:wo</mandarin> send back to him <mandarin>的时候是:de shi hou shi</mandarin> sunday night


so thursday night <mandarin>了:le</mandarin> then <mandarin>我还那个:wo hai na ge</mandarin> miro bot <mandarin>都还搞不定:dou hai gao bu ding</mandarin> leh then <mandarin>我就:wo jiu</mandarin> !huh! <mandarin>怎么办:zen me ban</mandarin> then , (ppc), which is tomorrow lah <mandarin>就是:jiu shi</mandarin> okay so


correct, ya so is to simulate a so the the I use the same theme lah the theme is fireside chat right so then okay lor we talk about campsite lor err you will have campfire people sit around the fire side right so err welcome people then I welcome them into the camp grounds so <mandarin>我要:wo yao</mandarin> decorate decorate <mandarin>一点有:yi dian you</mandarin> tent ah your trees lah then got notice board so you come in if you I'm I'm envisioning right if you walk into a campground you'll go to notice board see instruction what to do next


so, not not ya but you see in this way I can curate it right so the freaking notice board is the first thing you will see when you enter the campground so <mandarin>对对:dui dui</mandarin> ya unlike unlike if it's a real campground right <mandarin>你就会:ni jiu hui</mandarin> wonder around but <mandarin>这个我我可以:zhe ge wo wo ke yi</mandarin> curate it as the start point <mandarin>就是这个:jiu shi zhe ge</mandarin> notice board


so you go to the notice board see the instruction then you follow the birdy to fly to the next tree with the next notice board fly to the next tree to the next notice board, I can try to replicate roughly how it looks like in an environment you won't have that same sense but it is it is trying so it's like amazing race right I give you first clue second clue third clue right I'm curating the entire experience for you


right where you land up if with the clues is another curation lah right, so so now then after that <mandarin>就:jiu</mandarin> go into the campfire site, err where there are people sitting around in a circle which is basically individual box of individual people


then err <mandarin>你就放:ni jiu fang</mandarin> lor err then because it's camp is camping so Isman uses the concept of a user manual like robots, initially <mandarin>我放那个然后他讲:wo fang na ge ran hou ta jiang</mandarin> but in a campsite not so technical one leh cannot say user manual right <mandarin>不是好像:bu shi hao xiang</mandarin> vacuum cleaner <mandarin>还是什么:hai shi shen me</mandarin> then <mandarin>最后:zui hou</mandarin>


like like michelle's michelle's recipe to flourishing, so you like you flourished in this program or flourish in this camp, ya so then <mandarin>就是:jiu shi</mandarin> your three words that describe you the food that makes you like happy err what if you have a super power which is actually all this <mandarin>都是:dou shi</mandarin> copy Isman <mandarin>的:de</mandarin> the rest is copy ya so start inviting people lah to come in to fill up their boards


and then because they are across the three fire side chat session they might not have met each other, so I need to do a reintroduction again to everyone lah then from the fireside chat err from the fireside introduction


then their options right depending on how fast you come into the space or how slow you come into the space because it I think once it's an online space, not everyone comes in at the same time, that's one two some people don't come in until the actual day itself


so those who come in earlier that is strongly encouraged so you get to play around with the board but it's like orienteering yourself to the space lah if I go for camp I can put check in one or two days earlier just to sleep or relax first and get to know the space before my my actual camp programs start right for some like I think in the US summer camps that might be possible or even those mindfulness retreats you can check into the space a little bit earlier you can check out later


right then there are people who arrived just on the day itself lah, right which is also very typical so then I basically have to curate lor also like okay if you've come in earlier do I have other things that I can occupy you with lah so I actually just yesterday I just set up the the next activity of of packing your parking your backpack


right so so in a typical program you can teach people to pack backpack and then it's really go for an expedition right but in this case I I I actually link it back to a reflection piece lah to to reflect say you know now that we are preparing to go on this


bringing experiential learning online kind of adventure right what do you need to pack into your backpack in terms of your attitude your skills your knowledge right, ya so those who came in earlier which I only had a two or three out of


six like fifty percent err so I said you know !hey! guy so just last night I just, I just scheduled a email to set up this morning to say !hey! no thank you for those who like came in earlier and and I I noticed that you are introducing yourself around the campfire already right so thank you for doing that so this the next adventure that we have just launched just click on this link and you can go to the next adventure right the next activity those of you who have not come in yet this is the link to go through to come in and introduce yourself around the fireside


so what I'm also trying to do in the process is to demonstrate that when we bring things online there will always that the pre session now becomes even more important, compared to when its face to face, face to face <mandarin>我们:wo men</mandarin> the pre session <mandarin>大多数都是:da duo shu dou shi</mandarin> picking list


err admin instructions, I see you on that day itself, right which I think most people still do that so like when #yan kai# runs his workshop he also just send out that admin email twice, right err but I think moving forward it might make sense to


to then have a bit more lead up especially if it's gonna be a longer drawn kind of program so if I'm going to as come and run a five day programme, for the participants right I might want to have I want to build up some momentum


ya so, correct so it depends on how so now now is really about the entire design of the programme, from the moment you start engaging and when we say we start engaging or it could go as far forward as the moment you start your marketing online


right so the moment I have my first hello people this is the program that we are having blah blah blah blah blah I then after that no if nobody respond my next one my next one my next one how does it look like in in the story right that flows and then when people start to register how do I engaged these people who registered so your the the amount of time and effort is phenomenal


ya is crazy and and it's also the in betweens right so after every session , err how do you keep people connected, which is why yesterday err upon


upon completing the the board, and colin said, very good the ebook is done then as I sent out the ebook I then at I I again may I think it's the the yellow


and like ah okay so so it sounds like doing all these things is building up to a community right because if it <mandarin>讲:jiang</mandarin> thank you very much eating <mandarin>好像没有什么效果了:hao xiang mei you shen me xiao guo le</mandarin> I quickly go and set up facebook group ah,


ya so so I'm but I think it's good learning my overall to say that okay so, that's where the power of online becomes, there because now I have a curated group of people curated because they have come from the fireside chat or they have registered for the fireside chats they know they kind of know what they're getting themselves into


right and then people who and the thing is not everyone went through everything that people who registered and didn't turn up, right but I still invite you to be a part of the facebook group, but there are people who turn up only for the fireside chat they are not turning up tomorrow


right so so they will have that varying experience with us they will also have their own varying experiences with themselves so that some of them who are in the corporate corporate space there some of them who are running campsite there are some of them who are doing experiential activities within their program


, they might not have a very clear understanding of what experiential learning is, ya there are people who are teachers I think one or two of them who are teachers and but not local teachers they are like international school so so there's that varying experience lah so now if they are here in this facebook group


the hope is of course there will be sharing, right there's a hope ah doesn't always happen then is good for us to kick start lah, then after that subsequently right if we have any other follow up programs because the intention is also to lead up to colin beards masterclass


he cannot conduct it this year because he spoke he cannot come to singapore even though he already scheduled to be here until, friday he was supposed to come after national day like the tenth of august I think ten or eleven and he will be here until


actually next until next week, ya about one and a half weeks one week to one and a half weeks ya he so it was only until end of july SIA cancelled his ticket, ya before that they didn't cancel so he was still quite hopeful there's a chance


err cause he promised to bring his son, but ya didn't I didn't happen so so the initial intention was if he can, come then he will conduct a face to face err masterclass I the so the initial discussion was


err, prof can you can you deliver the master class online since know everything's moving online, so we were trying lah but, I think for <mandarin>他自己他过不了他自己难关:ta zi ji ta guo bu liao ta zi ji nan guan</mandarin> because again is that there is like you said right there are things that


cannot be replicated, and because it cannot be replicated then , err then there's the then it's something that he's not willing to let go lah, ya to to to


how to say ah, just now you use the word what to, compensate is it, ya so, so he feels cannot lor so for example is like his introduction of himself


, ya because <mandarin>他他不是:ta ta bu shi</mandarin> typical err <mandarin>他是讲他他的:ta shi jiang ta ta de</mandarin> introduction <mandarin>不是:bu shi</mandarin> typical introduction ah, ya but it's not to me is I don't see why cannot bring online


so the way he introduced himself is, err he


he he doesn't he actually just do a very brief one hi my name is professor colin beard err I teach in blah blah blah okay so now I'm going to get you to get into groups into smaller groups right and then you're going to introduce each other, to to each other lah that means like triads that kind of thing and then just introduce yourself to each other


and then after they have introduced we have intrude as participants we have introduced ourselves to each other then we, err then the next instruction is discuss what questions you want to ask me to find out about me


I need to send you all to break out rooms do the discussion then come back then you ask me the question, ya whereas in a face to face is more dynamic, ya, I think <mandarin>因为他自己没有那个经验:yin wei ta zi ji mei you na ge jing yan</mandarin> to do it


ya but he he is trying to do certain and he's trying to learn lah, ya,


, I think for me it is what I can do and what I cannot do, like like getting a sense lah like I didn't think that I could do live, no that wasn't not that I couldn't do but it sounded very daunting


like who am I speaking to man then I get myself out there and Siao Liao lah then cannot make mistake, , I think, there are certain paradigms that were shifted, in the process, err of myself and of of what can and cannot be done


err I'm grateful for COVID for that, think COVID basically, breakdown everything lah there's no more should be like that cannot do like this there's no no longer those, those boundaries or those guidelines or those rules and regulations of what can or cannot be done


in fact because there isn't right this debate about, about how many people can you put into room now to to to do a face to face has been ongoing for the past two months, (ppc) until yesterday gerald still asking me then I like


actually I don't actually I don't think there's a hard and fast rule leh it really depends on a lot of factors first of all organisation preference, secondly the venue that you're using, thirdly you as the trainer how com how comfortable or how confident you are to make sure everyone safe


so there's no there can be recommendations there can be guidelines even with those there are people who say I know I don't want to face to face, so then you Bo Pian also lah in that sense so then how, so so I think, all these experimentation and stuff just gets me thinking of the what's next time


like what can I now put together, to do the work I want to do on it to do so for example uh one of the things that I, need to discipline myself to do is


like con the concept of self care I can actually do a Udemy course it doesn't have to be interactive, err at at at least at this point where people are still trying to figure out what self care means, right like like the typical beyond the typical oh go for a bubble bath singapore how many bath tubs you have right I will go for bubble bath have chocolate have ice cream you know kickback relax have have tea and and read a book


other than those which is everywhere then how do you customise, the self care pack or self care kit for yourself lah so then then EG comes in right because it's your preference, if your first third expressive versus your third third expressive how self care looks like will be


significantly different ya you know if if you have a preference for structural thinking versus a preference for conceptual thinking how you self care will be very different as well so there's no, that's no I mean thing that having having tea kicking back relaxing it works


but I think the duration for each per person also varies if I'm first third expressive, no problem I can take an entire day doing that right but if I'm third third expressive five minutes <mandarin>就够了:jiu gou le</mandarin> beyond five minutes can I just look for someone else to to talk to and interact with I need to have that that that you know


ya or or or you know if I'm social thinking preference then you know it's so it's so so that's where EG comes in but at the very preliminary preliminary phase of self care defining self care defining, those can be done on through a Udemy course


then then using a Udemy course to actually become a form of marketing as well people attend already then we next question is would you like to customise this for yourself sign up here and then you can then then you know I will put in place of the things not so like do your EG profile we use your EG profile to customise your self care


things like so that's one aspect of of that right , and I think that becomes useful even in the in terms of psychological safety which will eventually lead there right is because now I have something to tell people


you know to talk to let to let my bosses my colleagues know that you know when I when I sweep when I ah when I wanna take a day off I really want to take a day off is not you are off can you just like occasionally just take a look at your email some people are okay with that but some people just no right there but not now the thing is if I tell you then then there's no evidence that this is my style people may think I want to just slack off right so now I I give you evidence lah I give you like this is what the EG profile says about you


and based on your profile this is the curated set of what you decide from your EG profile that you want to do and with this right you can actually bring it to people and say !hey! you know I did this personality profiling or whatever and this tells me a bit more about myself and


that explains why I talked in a certain way I behave in a certain way you know I think in a certain manner and then coupled with that this is what I have curated for myself and in terms of my self care kit, right and then it's something that they can bring to organisation and organisation can say oh


maybe we can do this for our organisation as well right so that that I mean that's the thought that might lead up lah that is one aspect so that will help with the mental mental wellbeing space as well (ppc) as as just one of the things right the other the other things that through so so with that


using miro or creating ebook, or filming videos doesn't have to be live all these skills that I, built or trying to hone over these past few months comes in already mah


just to do the Udemy thing, (ppc) if if at all lah, so that's one, one cumulative outcome lah, ya so beyond the self care then of course then the thought of what else lah can be done in that kind of similar format


err, err, don't understand your question enough can explain a bit more


so there are certain things, it sounds can some I will need to let go lah, ya so I think that day we mentioned a bit right like, like I'm not exactly in the training space


right but I do use certain knowledge or techniques in the training space lah for the work that I do do people need to know if they ask then I can tell them lah but they don't need to know know right like you don't need to like give you a long list of credentials


kind of thing right so, I guess that, that kind of like also helps to filter [lah] like what to put out there you want to keep it at the back end


okay then need to clap one two three clap, oh no you know right so so I told you that I like I have decided not to say like yes or no right


err she was like honestly right if you got no feelings then you know you no feelings ah you like you don't need to follow your gut feeling


yes, okay


shit ya I get it, confirm no


okay but okay but then like before my friend even told me right I already <mandarin>觉得:jue de</mandarin> like cannot lah he really !wah! I tell you <mandarin>真的:zhen de</mandarin> ah <mandarin>他不是我的:ta bu shi wo de</mandarin> type <mandarin>真的:zhen de</mandarin> like like I just cannot see future lor you know


then okay then after that I texted !wah! I tell you this one damn Rabak so we were so we were texting just now, then after that , then after that I don't know I don't know why did I tell you about did I tell you about the house party one


no okay so that means on the house party and when we were calling then after that I don't know we talk talk talk talk until what lah then we talk about relationship, then after that <mandarin>我就讲:wo jiu jiang</mandarin> err, no eh then I say I don't want boyfriend ah I don't want boyfriend then he say err ya I know I saw on your story


then after that, on my on my on my spam I say like number the forth one was that uh I'm not really ready for relationship because I don't bring in my insecurities into the relationship mah then <mandarin>他就讲他就讲:ta jiu jiang ta jiu jiang</mandarin> err no ya so he said ya I saw your story then I say ya lah cannot then no then <mandarin>他就讲他自己也是觉得:ta jiu jiang ta zi ji ye shi jue de</mandarin> once you step into NS ah he like he's not ready for relationship


then <mandarin>我就讲:wo jiu jiang</mandarin> err, no then after that I don't know is before or after lah then he said err oh he knew by a formal attire for wedding then I say !wah! <mandarin>谁的:shei de</mandarin> wedding sia there then <mandarin>他就讲他的:ta jiu jiang ta de</mandarin> then I like !huh! who the girl sia


, no ya then after that, but then after that err after that <mandarin>我就讲:wo jiu jiang</mandarin> err


no okay ya so then after I just list out, like I say at first <mandarin>我就讲:wo jiu jiang</mandarin> joey, ya


then after that <mandarin>他就讲:ta jiu jiang</mandarin> he straight away okay no, ya, then after that <mandarin>我就讲:wo jiu jiang</mandarin> brinny <mandarin>我讲:wo jiang</mandarin> natty then <mandarin>我就讲:wo jiu jiang</mandarin> then after that I think think that I say me then after that at first all the previous he say no then he say me then he eh actually ah


then I just, no then after that <mandarin>我就讲:wo jiu jiang</mandarin> but then you NS NS life lah cannot then I then after that I say like you after NS life that you re evaluate like the people in your life, then after that err then after <mandarin>我就讲:wo jiu jiang</mandarin> !aiya! you after two years that you you re-evaluate lah then you see can or not


but then that was on that was on saturday that was on saturday then today right when we text today is sunday right, ya today is sunday when we text then err I forget what we say lah but then after that it was very like


err, we talk eh eh wait ah <mandarin>讲什么:jiang shen me</mandarin> ah freak eh, err oh eh, oh ya so I told him remember I told you about my ex, the DSL <mandarin>那个:na ge</mandarin> ya so <mandarin>我就讲我就讲:wo jiu jiang wo jiu jiang</mandarin> oh oh I remember already err she said err


oh then ya so I sent him I send ah screen screen share of like history, ya see these kind my type then he said oh so this is the kind of guy you looking for is it


then I say ya oh oh I remember before that <mandarin>他就讲:ta jiu jiang</mandarin> err before that I say, oh wait no he said he's not good enough for me, then I'm like ya ya matte say he is not good enough for me then I say !huh! err no lah like err honestly you are a damn good guy lah you are a damn good catch but then ah


then like eh shit, then I delete <mandarin>对:dui</mandarin> lor then after <mandarin>我就讲说:wo jiu jiang shuo</mandarin> err then after that


err ya then I say honestly you are you are really very good guy just that no feelings lor, eh, tell him to pick up the pieces eh


ya, shatter ah, ya so I don't know lah but I think he gets the hint now lah then after that he say if you get any guys like you need appearance you need to clear through him first


then I say !wah! you are my security secretary now now is it, ya so, eh <mandarin>等:deng</mandarin> eh <mandarin>等一下他讲我是你爸爸:deng yi xia ta jiang wo shi ni ba ba</mandarin> eh


, ya lah that's why then I didn't actually didn't just texted me just now like he say like how how do you decide like how do you come with this conclusion


no err a bit after when he reply the chat, ya ya then he asked but I haven't reply ah I don't know how to reply him sia, but honest but okay but then you must see alicia she also said like


you already have answer in your heart, because I already did I just trying to like all others, like say maybe can maybe can but actually ultimately my answer is already a no, so whatever people say correct you can say me but then


I really need to follow gut feeling lor


(mmhmm), is a no


ah


err <mandarin>就是:jiu shi</mandarin> that text lor just now, ya I tell him my type already what, ya I say already, but it's not but I think I'm going to tell him lah in text because I ask him for his type then he say I tell you in real life


you boss ah you boss, !wah! ya ya actually I scare eh


err, err friends only lah have fun ah, ya !aiya! but no okay ya then after that yesterday this one this one not normal already yesterday my friends they say you you know actually you are damn like you are you are very you're not an independent woman


what the <mandarin>做么:zuo me</mandarin> ah, okay why why you say her, (mmhmm)


ya, then I'll consider


!huh! really meh


okay facts facts, ah ah


(mmhmm), ya, that's my problem sia


(mmhmm)


maybe ah, I I just want people's opinion


they are actually I already know the answer but I just want people opinion, hor,


eh facts eh like my mu dye hair one right oh my god I say I want the that one the the


the very first one that I say ah the ballarat one, then dylan said eh this one like don't suit you leh, then err alicia she also say she is like don't suit you lah but then if you happy then you just go lah ya actually I feel that a lot of people say don't suit you don't suit you that's why I like keep searching other try lor


ya that's true, under the sea


(mmhmm), ya


you also know, no wonder you put paintbrush


john Chua


, you did different colour


oh the wash hair, ya


ah


oh because it fade not that because, how I know, the red and blue


oh my god, !huh!, oh my god


pink, ya sia but the two different times you bleach both times


!wow!, because electric blue ah electric blue is very bright


oh, oh, !wah! then you imagine nigel <mandarin>的头发:de tou fa</mandarin> !walao! confirm need to dye a lot leh


his was bright blue leh, (ppc), just that yours darker, !huh! cannot be


okay


to his hair, I don't know, oh I think I know who the photographer is it, oh, ah


!wah! his hair really like dry leh, !wah!, I think ah !wah! I scared ah they say I need to dye two times eh, ya, my mother confirm whack me eh


Balayage okay like fifth explain hor Balayage Ombre is like on top


you get, ya you know that's why they say like you take longer, I wasn't really say <mandarin>一根一根:yi gen yi gen</mandarin> lah I don't know is call <mandarin>一根一根:yi gen yi gen</mandarin> or hair by hair , that's why ya


hor, dye back, leave it lor, ya I think I will do it


!walao!, you all, ya ya


ya ya, why you copy me, wait but Deff keep blue meh, Deff ya sia


ah okay, I think I remember her, ya but it's quite dark it wasn't bright wasn't like yours lah you know


oh, are you going to do full head this time, all of it, ya I think you need to bleach a lot


(mmhmm)


, !chey! okay I think ah next time I make decision ah don't ask you, I made decision I do already then I tell you go


life choice hor


ya ya, , no leh it's not it's not that I despise him I think I don't know leh I think <mandarin>整个默契:zheng ge mo qi</mandarin> hor


which is thanks lah


no and his oh ya I told him I told him that I realise ah because last time I always say eh I only see personality I don't care about looks I realise ah I lost that part eh ya


ya lah is minor but it still play a part mah, ya


I cannot eh so


ya, average lah ya, (mmhmm)


you know I told him I told him err I said like oh he said the church I said I said the guys interest long on me, then, ya then <mandarin>他就讲:ta jiu jiang</mandarin> the girl in church he is not <mandarin>他配不上她:ta pei bu shang ta</mandarin> then I just then that's when I Tekan him lah I just !walao! Chao


ya then but then after that, then I say, no then after that I say all the err adult leaders hor they're also all will they will stir shit lah at first then after that then when they realise that is legit right


then they won't then they will eh no cannot lah cannot


then he say you all two cannot lah I think ah got more possible ah, then I say


ah, serious, I don't know I don't know, ya so I ask him but no answer me then I just !huh!, well you know then after that he ask me to ask me kayden got a thing for her is it then I say no lah I I just want kayden to get a girlfriend faster leave my life faster leave my life


jokes lah jokes lah, jokes lah, need to cover up, okay wait but he had he had like


ya correct, how you know, oh my god this is the end


oh my god is in the same period


serious, wasn't in charge yet


!huh!, oh shit


I think is that time one, colour september leh


ah ah


oh, ah ya


no no view view ya, ya


but, ya lah ya, ya ya, no no okay but then right he is a


I think it was joyce somebody then the third one ah is like he didn't know it was a sudden like realisation, ya, which honestly I wasn't surprise lah


no no which is why I honestly ah if me and him our friendship go that far right, confirm in the end he will still say he got few son because that's what happen, history lah history let's not name name lah


okay


really, (mmhmm)


(mmhmm), facts lah facts


I think it's the second, I think I think ya, cannot be first one lah and even if it's first one joyce won't tell me


oh shit right, eh actually ah <mandarin>那些人他喜欢:nei xie ren ta xi huan</mandarin> ah <mandarin>两个都在里面:liang ge dou zai li mian</mandarin> eh


she is what, she is what


she was she was I had a whole, the whole cornerstone these ah what the heck, crystal maybe I don't know you sign or not


clara is not lah, ya err err I hope we censor this


ya sia oh my god never mind lah never mind I think it'll be very interesting to hear


!huh!, , eh actually, ya ya ya ya ya


ya imagine everybody go and follow the thing, for the guy leh, ya then !wah! boring then ours ah maybe ah


eh actually ah honestly ah !wah! <mandarin>我的:wo de</mandarin> video start <mandarin>不:bu</mandarin> Liao anyways I realise ah every adult leader right they have their own stand on trinity and they have things opportunity than all, ya


ya so, ya so then after that honestly ah then it got me thinking like <mandarin>你真的要你真的要离开群体:ni zhen de yao ni zhen de yao li kai qun ti</mandarin> lor because everybody have their own thoughts what


maybe ya


then like this everybody right so why should believe if we stay and made a change which is what they say to stay and make a change lah but I think he really want to jump over lah


(mmhmm)


you tried lah, ya


(mmhmm), actually I know one person <mandarin>那个跟你想别的:na ge gen ni xiang bie de</mandarin> ah, ah he also he also say he also he also got full time hor, then he just he say err he will I don't know if he said that he will leave not but like he was still come back ah ultimately he will still come back and make the change


err about the same as us, I thought of him before lah ya it's really but he's a bit more, I don't know lah <mandarin>他想很多东西:ta xiang hen duo dong xi</mandarin> eh


ya ya, ya


ya ya ya, facts lah


ah, , !wah!, okay lah but they all same generation one what same batch what


maybe that's why lah, then those they cannot <mandarin>就是:jiu shi</mandarin> those they cannot then, no but abby is not that batch what the batch before is it not ya the batch before


ah later before ah, (mmhmm) (mmhmm), ya I don't know if abby is like that lah


what they what they do give title already, ah


that one I don't know eh


they actually ya, ya ya ya


then those like, popular but a bit step back ah then is the one that you that you know ah got they got send out, pops but step back


he plays drum at his testimony


eh hello <mandarin>我给过:wo gei guo</mandarin> okay, err she ask me like !wah! that time ah I still talk with this trainee I tell you eh, I still remember because because because like she ask me like how how is your growth in


then I say I would say that I can't guarantee like honestly ah is a good place to grow, because before that was chinese church eh !walao! some more <mandarin>听不懂:ting bu dong</mandarin> I can talk lah but cannot understand like Chim one


!aiya! <mandarin>对对对什么马克服什么鬼:dui dui dui shen me ma ke fu shen me gui</mandarin> lah, ya then err then like I said lor then I prefer the church once I came because that time her place very Rabak, then I say that time when I came like they released a bother me a lot lah ya so it's a good place to find so that attachment date lah you know got people say I very popular inside


right I'm not just that people I'm like a bright like people know me, because of like different things ah, ya


(mmhmm), <mandarin>我也是不用紧:wo ye shi bu yong jin</mandarin> I got same title


or the <mandarin>内向:nei xiang</mandarin> one is it


that's why we can start lah err base times four equal ten, we start first then you stay, eh recruit sia


oh my god, !huh! really ah, ah


d, oh I think I know already lah


ah ah ah ah I know I know, that one is the main three lah


oh my god second race, ya, faith lydia alysha, <mandarin>七个人:qi ge ren</mandarin> Liao leh


, ya actually honest I think ah we can make change one, if we all actually ah no leh because ah they are all very


they are they are not really very receptive, no no


ya, the (mmhmm)


(mmhmm)


no, oh, but following it's different leh


that's true that's true, especially especially they sense ah anything like wrong ah they'll go and goes to australia, ya


that's why I cannot be there , cannot lah I really cannot imagine sia, ya oh my god


oh okay chloe err, be david dance dance me side also ask me, ya then I say <mandarin>不要:bu yao</mandarin> lah <mandarin>很烦的:hen fan de</mandarin> lah


oh <mandarin>他:ta</mandarin> oh <mandarin>真的:zhen de</mandarin> ah, but she but she look like someone who got stand eh


okay honest actually ah I think they got stand just that you don't don't want to they don't want to say out, ya, because they want the they want to look good mah, because I saw, !oops!


err I told err I told nigel before that, then he like he just ask why lah then I say no lah I just feel like cannot really grow then he never really like minister or like vote for the he just like oh did you talk to anybody about it then I say ya I told mandy and all then he say okay lah as long as somebody knows can already so like


ya, ya, ya


that's why I say cannot, you cannot talk deep shit with him, ya cannot


oh !wow!, (mmhmm) actually ah a lot of thing that's the thing


cannot


part, Dio lah


oh, ya, (mmhmm)


he's still involved in my life I'm not involved in his life


for example, he knows like if I go out right he knows who I am going around with and he knows the people that I'm talking, it's like it's like, is how to say it's like if I'm texting right and then like suddenly fun then you then I say eh why you laugh sia then I say oh like this person like my friend then I just said all this is my primary school friend and all whatever shit then it will just naturally come out


but like for him is like, never lor like got once when we maybe house party then he was doing something then I just oh what do you need he just nothing much ah then I just


you get ya lor it's like, and I cannot I cannot I cannot stand you if people like that, because I'm I'm someone that need to know everything one, ya so I see a lot of potential problems


!huh! that's why <mandarin>我的:wo de</mandarin> stand <mandarin>是:shi</mandarin> no mah


confirm come out one ya, ah, ya


no I think the reason why should said there is because you already knew there my aunt that my route answer was no


(mmhmm) ya, ya okay (mmhmm)


fifty fifty ya cannot, cannot


you will know more


ya ya


because both side don't know how to handle


(mmhmm)


that's true, (mmhmm)


oh my god


eh that one <mandarin>小妹妹:xiao mei mei</mandarin> hunter eh, (mmhmm)


ya, (mmhmm)


just go only, actually ya, a lot of a lot of older people ah just is


first one first and last, ya, I also don't I also don't dare to introduce


(mmhmm), but alysha and dylan also alysha say dylan is not her type one right, but I don't think


actually ah I think they will, I thinks so, ya, because ah, okay okay I don't know about alysha side, but I know dylan really really sacrificed a lot lah but I feel the breaking point is when dylan decide to put his stuff behind or maybe say okay no more of the past I'm not going to talk about the past


ya so if he if he if it changes they will last, but, I see the change lah as in I I believe lah maybe you know I put in my trust


in the house party lah, is she said what, ya


but I don't know if the current, ya, why lor


oh oh <mandarin>你们:ni men</mandarin> one time one then you <mandarin>弥补七个:mi bu qi ge</mandarin> ah, ya


actually ah dylan also got tell me that like their relationship now also like !wah!, he said he say like that


you know after after that they day they home he call me and he play from you ya he call and play for me then he said that err of out of everything that is happening you need to break for yourself first lah he say he also need to break from himself and his relationship he also don't know now is like how


(mmhmm), actually the is I wanted leh, we really not not much lah like I ask him I ask him err I ask him to meet because I need to pass him the


and then he say no need lah don't need to pass me I'm not going, then I say oh my like he is a very like short and like like very short answer


you know then then after that err I ask lor why the he just I don't want lor I just like, what the hell, you know like <mandarin>如果如果我们真的是朋友:ru guo ru guo wo men zhen de shi peng you</mandarin> ah then you won't tell me, you just tell me like honest opinions why you don't want to go


ya so to me is, I don't know maybe maybe is he cannot text or shit


!walao!, no but I needed to go there I needed to go there for, physiotherapy, I needed go Jurong east for physiotherapy, so I say <mandarin>顺便给你:shun bian gei ni</mandarin> lah, I don't want one on one !walao! eh


!walao!, , dylan also hitting dylan also


ya ya ya (uh huh) then, ya not but okay, ah <mandarin>我知道我知道:wo zhi dao wo zhi dao</mandarin> so okay okay no but but that's why I say if you if you really want like like a second opinion or <mandarin>第二个:di er ge</mandarin> like kind of like err a second opinion access to do what you feel lah but then you cannot be swayed which is you you understand what I'm trying to say


so then <mandarin>我是觉得我是觉得:wo shi jue de wo shi jue de</mandarin> you cannot you cannot feel you cannot follow what your friend say because if I were to see what I see like me and alicia, like that day right like if you were to say to you about it I tell you also will on that spot you also will say like okay maybe I say no


you know what I am trying to say so what is you should say that you should say that like, your friend tell you later right


, K K ya understand ah


(mmhmm) eh no no no no no no no ya


what did you post on your story


oh


that time <mandarin>你讲你就讲他们:ni jiang ni jiu jiang ta men</mandarin> err joey <mandarin>喜欢她对:xi huan ta dui</mandarin> mah then after in the end


, why


!wah! steady, !wah! steady this kind


ya, ya


ah


oh as in matte lah, !wah!


!wah! <mandarin>你你上了他的玻璃心:ni ni shang le ta de bo li xin</mandarin> eh <mandarin>知道:zhi dao</mandarin> mah ,


!wah! steady


, different level


oh as in like when you all message us lah they like what you message us you said it or you decided to straight you know, oh okay okay, !aiya!


you must be sure and confirmed that like <mandarin>你真的是:ni zhen de shi</mandarin> because, ya <mandarin>你真的是:ni zhen de shi</mandarin> because it's a no and then <mandarin>是你自己要讲:shi ni zi ji yao jiang</mandarin> no <mandarin>这样的话:zhe yang de hua</mandarin> and not because err like <mandarin>你听别人的还是你听:ni ting bie ren de hai shi ni ting</mandarin> second opinion <mandarin>你听什么什么什么这样:ni ting shen me shen me shen me zhe yang</mandarin> then then <mandarin>你要是:ni yao shi</mandarin> that and that one ah so very very fine line eh it's a very very fine between between you deceiving yourself and you could like <mandarin>跟你自己讲:gen ni zi ji jiang</mandarin> yes I really want to say no because of because like what you say like what you say that time


err, , eh actually <mandarin>要不要:yao bu yao</mandarin> try or <mandarin>所以:suo yi</mandarin> how are you sure <mandarin>你:ni</mandarin> say that <mandarin>这个:zhe ge</mandarin> second time you say no <mandarin>不会变成一个:bu hui bian cheng yi ge</mandarin> yes eventually


correct


!huh! that means <mandarin>你讲:ni jiang</mandarin> Liao ah <mandarin>你跟他讲:ni gen ta jiang</mandarin> Liao ah, oh


!wah!, then then <mandarin>你:ni</mandarin> realise <mandarin>他讲我的:ta jiang wo de</mandarin> type <mandarin>是你:shi ni</mandarin> !wah! , correct, ah <mandarin>其实:qi shi</mandarin> ah <mandarin>我的:wo de</mandarin> type <mandarin>是你:shi ni</mandarin> oh then <mandarin>你:ni</mandarin> Siao crazy what correct


because, because, because like what you say ah okay if go back to matte ah this kind we go back to matte ah, err


and then <mandarin>你也是一样:ni ye shi yi yang</mandarin> okay no fine I wouldn't say that you are not but <mandarin>你是:ni shi</mandarin> easily swayed


that means <mandarin>就是:jiu shi</mandarin> if somebody give you a second opinion somebody give you a a second thing, it may not seem viable or it may not seem what right then you will like or even consider or you will even take the second route you know what I'm trying to say so it's not because you are not decisive but it's because you are easily swayed which is a very is a very like <mandarin>怎么讲:zen me jiang</mandarin> like


it is not bad that means you're not stubborn you know what I'm trying to say, ya that means you are not stubborn <mandarin>你不是:ni bu shi</mandarin> like like <mandarin>固执:gu zhi</mandarin> ah ya so then


so on and on the other hand it can be bad in a sense that you cannot make your own decision lor, oh no no no no it's not that means when you make a decision lah you must say okay I'm going to do it <mandarin>你不会讲:ni bu hui jiang</mandarin> like okay <mandarin>我听别人讲你听别人讲:wo ting bie ren jiang ni ting bie ren jiang</mandarin> then after that you will think the the the what you will think the the the opinion then you think another <mandarin>别人讲:bie ren jiang</mandarin> then you take their opinion


is not going to be easy in the sense that it's not going to be <mandarin>好像讲这样讲:hao xiang jiang zhe yang jiang</mandarin> it's not going to be easy to make a decision for yourself lah you know


you can make decision for yourself that's mean like <mandarin>今天要吃鸡饭:jin tian yao chi ji fan</mandarin> then you go and eat you know but, ya that's why so if you ask people then you then what if then you ask ten even people ten different people tell you ten different things how then <mandarin>你不是就不要吃:ni bu shi jiu bu yao chi</mandarin> correct


just now your friend say you what


(mmhmm), yes, but then there are different there are two different type of people actually I know my answer I just want to hear what people say I hear what other people say but I'm still going on with my answer that's one type of person but hor <mandarin>你不是:ni bu shi</mandarin> eh


I got no opinion but I want to listen what other people say but then I may change you know what I'm trying to say


the ballarat ah


is is is <mandarin>真的:zhen de</mandarin> like I feel like is <mandarin>真的:zhen de</mandarin> I feel like it's okay because if you never try you will never know, honestly if I if I because I know I like


no because when I when I decided to do the blue colour right I tell you a lot of people tell me no eh a lot leh, that's why when I did the second time I don't want I need a red colour I didn't tell a lot of people because <mandarin>你只知道:ni zhi zhi dao</mandarin> like if if like if I tell people right then they will be like don't lah don't do lah whatever


ya, no really that's why so that's why my hair keep changing like paintbrush like that because, that's why because okay the paintbrush was a was a was a was a thing about was a thing that john Chua told me back then when he was still in church ah ya ya ya ya ya


ya ya ya ya ya ya so he like it was back then when he still came came to err church then after that <mandarin>他就讲:ta jiu jiang</mandarin> err eh your hair ah err err you know what last time you call this kind of people not like that as it err what the err what do you call paintbrush lor


because everytime ah your head is different colour that's why because that time when I do the blue colour hor it fade damn fast like <mandarin>那个:na ge</mandarin> colour hor <mandarin>没有掉:mei you diao</mandarin> very very fast because I tell you why because I think I tell you the story before


ya ya ya ya I use the I use the different shampoo then <mandarin>我洗洗洗洗:wo xi xi xi xi</mandarin> then <mandarin>我就讲:wo jiu jiang</mandarin> oh <mandarin>为什么为什么:wei shen me wei shen me</mandarin> hor <mandarin>一直掉色:yi zhi diao se</mandarin> eh like like the colour coming out like free like that


every every week he come to church ah every week his hair is a different colour because <mandarin>一直在:yi zhi zai</mandarin> fade <mandarin>一直在:yi zhi zai</mandarin> fade <mandarin>一直在:yi zhi zai</mandarin> fade <mandarin>一直在:yi zhi zai</mandarin> err is a different colour everytime, oh that of course lah, so far ah so far, I only dye two colour only but then ah my hair was in red and blue ya but my hair was in a five different colours


but my hair was in err five different colours


ya that was four colour, then after that in the end it was red colour


yes, the, dark blue colour I was quite shock that I need to bleach because I bleach two times some more eh and then the red colour I only bleach one time, not really leh actually that blue that time I had was was relatively dark but because <mandarin>那个人讲:na ge ren jiang</mandarin> like <mandarin>因为我头发:yin wei wo tou fa</mandarin> like very dark in the sense that the documentation very dark as in the black very dark


so then <mandarin>他们讲:ta men jiang</mandarin> oh you need to dye you know bleach two times but then when it come out hor it was quite it was quite err it was like electric blue but on a darkest side of the blue in a sense, ya


oh <mandarin>对对对对:dui dui dui dui</mandarin> ya ya nigel no nigel Wong was was the same colour is mine, is is the same is the relatively same colour that means it was around that same shade, but because he he told me he didn't bleach all, ya so <mandarin>我不懂:wo bu dong</mandarin> no that's why they see that's why they see that err it vary vary it really varies a lot the person hair


!huh! <mandarin>你不懂:ni bu dong</mandarin> meh <mandarin>那个:na ge</mandarin> oh <mandarin>你不懂:ni bu dong</mandarin> ah but never mind one guy interest ah okay


and then <mandarin>他已经:ta yi jing</mandarin> bleach <mandarin>了七次:le qi ci</mandarin> but then he he do like three different colour like err over the course lah but he had to bleach seven times but three different colour only you know, ya his hair like mop you see oh ya you don't know


his hair really like his hair really like mop ah I tell you, ya ya ya ya <mandarin>那个就是那个就是好像:na ge jiu shi na ge jiu shi hao xiang</mandarin> mop <mandarin>这样真的是:zhe yang zhen de shi</mandarin>


bleach ah, as in okay wait actually I honestly don't know what the heck Balayage


ah <mandarin>这样久:zhe yang jiu</mandarin> ah


!wah! <mandarin>你真的:ni zhen de</mandarin> okay lah I guess it's okay !aiya! I feel that just go and do it lah really


okay okay Balayage lah, it's really no harm trying what what's the what's the harm really <mandarin>最多你:zui duo ni</mandarin> you just err I don't know, no lah no need dye back already honestly just let it be lor


because the time when I do the blue colour it was I have no regrets ah really really, like I feel is cool lor I feel like


and then hor, and you got realise or not you got realise once I did the blue colour once me faith no no once me faith and Deff do the blue colour then everybody interest started doing blue, you got realise that one, chloe started doing blue


no no no Deff did err Deff did err shiny blue ya ya ya but <mandarin>他们好像是:ta men hao xiang shi</mandarin> Ombre <mandarin>的:de</mandarin> leh which was very very nice eh later I show you, ya it was really really nice and then that time faith do the colour like barely can see


ya, I do full head leh that one I do full head he didn't do the full head


ya, eh this time ah even I think it's even worse eh because this time is even lighter eh it's like a it's like light blue and dark blue kind of, kind of colour I mean a light blue and err violet kind of colour


ya lor,


no okay simple simple thing like like dye hair lah <mandarin>吃饭这样子:chi fan zhe yang zi</mandarin> it's okay one <mandarin>你自己:ni zi ji</mandarin> decide ya okay fine but if <mandarin>我是我是觉得我是觉得:wo shi wo shi jue de wo shi jue de</mandarin> if like things like err err


like <mandarin>很像:hen xiang</mandarin> matte <mandarin>这样的东西:zhe yang de dong xi</mandarin> ah <mandarin>还是什么:hai shi shen me</mandarin> ah, then <mandarin>你是可以我是觉得你是可以问:ni shi ke yi wo shi jue de ni shi ke yi wen</mandarin> lah ya, because it eh <mandarin>这种东西哦不是:zhe zhong dong xi o bu shi</mandarin> game <mandarin>来的:lai de</mandarin> eh my hair <mandarin>不是玩来的:bu shi wan lai de</mandarin> eh is is really


!wah! correct ya eh then maybe matte know you that's why, maybe matte know you that's why ah he give you both side so then he do it then he let you then he let you choose yourself


then you then you despise for what I don't take side I promise you lah I don't take side, <mandarin>默契:mo qi</mandarin>


no lah I feel that


I don't know, , !walao! <mandarin>你是看:ni shi kan</mandarin> looks <mandarin>的:de</mandarin> ah eh


really I also tell myself that time that I would say that no but, for me for me lah <mandarin>我是觉得:wo shi jue de</mandarin> (mmhmm) okay lah cannot cannot ya for me looks is okay ah but but I feel is very minor for me


ya ya ya , correct correct correct because, you okay I I always I always for me ah when I'm deciding like


I always will think lor I say that will I be able to leave looking at this person for the next ten years of my life for the next twenty years of my left <mandarin>这样子:zhe yang zi</mandarin> lor, ya so so so once I think about it ah then I see


ya, for me very straight one ah very straight forward if I say that this girl okay I don't I honestly think that you don't have to be Sibeh Chio you don't have to be, ya honestly don't have to be Sibeh Chio don't have to be Sibeh handsome but


lookable lah , sorry ah sorry to say but but lookable lah you know what I'm saying like !aiya! then


(mmhmm), it's true though it's true it's true


, no okay, oh !huh!


who and who, !huh! jocelyn, ah, , I mean <mandarin>为什么:wei shen me</mandarin> no but no but why so suddenly brought up jocelyn


ah, ,


no lah but because, no no but I honestly damn curious why he suddenly speak of me you know, freak sia eh, he I think with joyce right, ya I knew it I knew it


I always see him because, like <mandarin>你知道:ni zhi dao</mandarin> lah, ya, this is gossip at this point okay you know because because okay <mandarin>我是觉得:wo shi jue de</mandarin> because that time when I like joyce right I always like


ya I don't know leh no K because then after that I saw them I saw them err err talking like about a damn serious thing, like about damn serious thing ah then after that I realised but then that day simon wasn't that


ya, so, ya correct correct don't don't don't okay then this is actually so I read people very well I feel ah I feel I read people very well, ya ya no no no no this was quite recent this was


this was year two beginning I think, ya year two beginning ya I think it was around there that I saw it if I'm not wrong ah <mandarin>好像:hao xiang</mandarin> or maybe is like maybe is like near colours


but then I okay <mandarin>我我真的不懂:wo wo zhen de bu dong</mandarin> but then I clearly saw that like they were the two of them were like sitting they are talking there <mandarin>我就:wo jiu</mandarin> I a bit already but I didn't dare to I didn't dare to you know that time when we were talking about how like you and diana was saying like how like err err err <mandarin>我在讲什么:wo zai jiang shen me</mandarin> how err oh we were talking that whether they are saying about saying yes or no to matte right remember that one


then <mandarin>我就:wo jiu</mandarin> I always I always honestly honestly <mandarin>我真的:wo zhen de</mandarin> honestly say eh did matte and joycelyn have feeling then I honestly want to ask ya ya I wanted to ask maybe is <mandarin>我想太多:wo xiang tai duo</mandarin> because I have a tendency of like thinking overthinking a lot so <mandarin>我跟我自己讲:wo gen wo zi ji jiang</mandarin> okay lah maybe <mandarin>不是:bu shi</mandarin> because when you all were talking talking and all that then after that <mandarin>你一直讲:ni yi zhi jiang</mandarin> oh before that matte has someone there's somebody that he is into


or is it another one , so you so joyce <mandarin>是第一个:shi di yi ge</mandarin> lah, !wah! ya I was like !wah! between joyce and you got another one


what the got two more


!aiya! <mandarin>这种男人:zhe zhong nan ren</mandarin> hor


oh okay lah