ya then after that trip is the what really made me enjoy this trip super much is that seeing all of them enjoying the trip, and then singing praises of the wonderful experience they have, the wonderful memories the friendship that they made because before this trip we know we we have a a there it will always be like a group chat


so in the group chat you can tell there's many different personalities so it is you somehow I know might be difficult to manage when it's on the trip but surprisingly when we are there everybody was uh, very cooperative with one another you know there wasn't any unpleasant uh


experiences lah, or things that are too tough to manage so I feel that uh that trip right really left me, uh, very very uh, happy lah after the entire experience plus the view lah the view up mount Fansipan


that one is really like !wah! okay ya , especially after all the hike you know so tiring then you are rewarded with that then okay lah at least you know that uh, at least you are rewarded with a good scenery


correct, yes and then uh it's it's really like me experiencing that for the first time because this Fansipan is also the highest mountain I've climbed, personally for me ya so it's like !wah! to be rewarded with that view is like really worth it whatever all the stress uh before trip during the trip on that is totally worth it from that moment


ya what about yourself eh


(uh huh), !wah! okay,


(uh huh), nice


!wah!, (uh huh)


three only in the whole of, oh !wow!, okay,


, ya, that's true


ya, (mmhmm),


ya that's true that's the only point where you also step out of your own comfort zone to you know to to know more about a stranger to you before this trip, ya


correct , ya


(uh huh), ya, that way


ah, ya that's true


okay, okay, so okay cheryl what leads you to experience an adrenaline rush


do you do you ever feel anything that gives you [wah} adrenaline rush ,


I suppose so lah ya, (uh huh) true true ya


, [orh]


(uh huh) ya, , okay , for me actually a a a lot of things that I get adrenaline rush quite


you know like what you say lor if I take rollercoaster I will feel it, uh if I were, I jumped off a rock before into waterfall that one I felt I don't know is it adrenaline or stressedness ah I was very scared lah, ya but I think maybe another positive one that I really felt really good was whenever I go into a race lor whether is it mainly is dragonboat race lah


because at the starting line after months of training right then the moment you know especially when it's like semi finals where you know you you almost there can make it to finals that kind of adrenaline rush right the moment the the the whistle blow ah !wah!, it's like !wah! you really want it you know uh that was when I I think I really felt the the highest rush then everybody go go out all go crazy then at the end of it everybody is like so panting like dog ya


that's a that's a very very, good experience lah for me, yes correct ya that is the like the report card you know


ya, (uh huh)


ya, not even one actually true lah I don't really I think with this ya I mean unless we have the practice of maybe meditation ah where we do a lot of self reflection if not we won't ask uh this kind of questions on a day to day basis


, ya


, maybe you have I think I think the thing is maybe we have but it's just that we do not know whether is that considered one or not, you know wanting to be proud of and then maybe the proudest moment of life even if we don't feel that we don't have it now maybe ten years later you will have it you never know


right, ya maybe when you do skydiving then that will be the proudest moment of your life, ya


ya it's it's true every everytime we do something like supposedly dangerous right if you can finish the activity safely ah, if you are very lucky you know, ya


uh, correct, that's true


correct, ya, so uh let me see what is your favourite activity to unwind and relax


okay


okay, okay to unwind and relax ya


ya ,


ya, ah okay okay


me, I think for me it's uh gathering with friends ah you know whether is it a a dinner dinner session brunch or something where we can just chit chat for every other thing in life so that for me that is like one of my most relaxing moment or even when they come over


my house you know then we just chill watch TV, Makan good food ya but if I uh but at the same time I also like , another way for me is exercising lor ya any kind of exercise ah it really helps me to unwind and then my whole body relax


I find also exercising helps to rejuvenate my my whole skins my whole cells you know in my body also, ya but for, like for example cycling right I will prefer if I, ride in a small group and I'm not the one leading so I just follow blindly ah that one is really relaxing for me ya


then I don't need to worry about oh what's in front all that I just follow follow follow what my where they lead the route then oh okay enjoy the scenery as it goes along


ya correct, primary school ah, only a few ah ya very very few ah


, what about you eh


(uh huh)


that's true, ya


, but you know with all these uh long long long ago long lost friends ah we only meet up once in a blue blue moon you know, because it's like I mean we have our close circle of friends lah maybe from the nearer age like maybe uh polytechnic days or secondary school days


but primary school friend is like once in a blue moon okay anybody free to catch up and then you just catch up, ya, uh


it is more of a formality already ya because it's not like we see each other every time so sometimes when we and then when we catch up it's only a couple of hours there's only so much we can update one another on our lives and then it's like if you keep talking about yourself is also feels


bit awkward lah ya so you just talk about you know what's going on and uh at the current moment this and that so it became very superficial kind of conversation after a while, but then those friends that you constantly meet up like a few times a year at least you are more involved in one another's life so when you catch up right there there are more things in common that you can talk about you know or you you probably know about their


family their siblings and all that so you can talk share more in depth, like uh information rather than you know how's the weather these things things like that, , ya


politics ah ya correct or like things like that lah ya lor things like that lor, (mmhmm)


[oh] ya that's true that's for sure you you will know [lah] you will discern who are the ones worth having


I don't have to stop the app right, okay, for me personally I think the best way for me is to to to buy insurance because I'm not a uh really a good I'm not really a person who


who know how to save so even if I put money into the bank right after a while I will have that urge to take it out and spend I mean like I think I think that's my nature I'm a marketer so I love spending money so the best, way for me is to put the money where far far away I can't reach I can't take


so I think investing in insurance is the best for me


, ya I mean I mean to be honest I mean of course one way to grow our wealth faster is by through investing in shares all this but then we need to be savvy also


you have to do a lot of homework to understand the shares that you want to buy before you putting your money in so for me I'm not really a very financial savvy person in that sense so, I will rely on someone like, financial planner to help me to plan ahead what's uh


ya so so far all the financial planners that I have, are people that I know that means , they are usually my friends first and then I


trust them then I will entrust my finance with them, that means I know that they won't be like coming into the industry then work for two three years and then off they go, ya ya


so what strategies would you recommend to someone planning for their big ticket expenditures like maybe like for yourself when you expect to buy your own house in a few years time


yes actually it's quite true like for example like starting a family or how do you manage your financial commitments before and after the marriage right so when a couple have already decided to come together, I think it's very important that they probably have a common


account where every month they put in money into that, uh combined account diligently and that money will go towards like preparation for their weddings the expenditure for holding the wedding and also uh


in preparation for the houses and in future, the sum of money in there will also help them to manage all the uh household finances, ya


(mmhmm), yes I think I think that is true like in singapore our public transportation is, fairly good there is really no need to have a car only occasionally you probably need a car but you can always uh rent a car I mean now there are a lot of avenues that you can rent a car even though the blue blue SG the hybrid cars


that are available islandwide you can always ran it because at the end of the day if you invest in a, property, ten twenty years down the road the property price will appreciate it's still an asset you see once you finish your loan


the house is yours it's an asset, but buying a car it will never be an asset it will forever be a liability, ya so that is my opinion on how you look at big ticket expenditure, for for people lah but of course everybody will have their own different opinions


, eh I don't, I okay for me I don't really have a like a account between me and my husband but we separated like who looks after what like for example I'll look after the utilities


uh the bills and then like maybe the phone bills and then he will like look other aspects of the household expenses ya,


no we don't really have that because in our own opinion we don't we we we don't think that uh even though we are a couple things are not split half half if you are going to everything split down to half half fifty fifty fifty percent in this way right


oh, it's quite quite difficult , eh it's like, how how do you look at, it into a marriage oh if everything looks fifty like oh okay we go out eat you fifty fifty this thing everything fifty fifty ya


, ya of course


or if not you'll grumble you know oh why why this month like, the utility as well but especially these few months where so many people work from home right your utility bills have go up because you use more gas for cooking you use more electricity either for the fan or for the air conditioning you take more showers


so the utilities bill will go up then you will grumble bae have can you use lesser uh uh utilities or not oh if not next month next month you will have to pay , ya ya but other than, than everything eh it's okay because


we don't have children so if you talk about household's finances it's definitely much lower than uh families with children or young children, ya so overall the, expenditure is not that high and then of course the every month you have to pay the housing loan but that is that is through CPF so that is already taken care of


ya , so in a post COVID world what changes are you making in terms of your spending and saving habit,


(hmm), just a minute ah #heng jie# the phone blackout and then what do I do, pla


yes play button the red button and the submit submit okay


okay alright okay ah, ya


okay what changes I made in spending oh definitely I see a significant drop in spending ya like uh , I don't go, so much of socialising anymore like


the last, meeting I have with my uh girlfriend was like shortly after chinese new year and then the COVID happens all these so we didn't meet up for half a year, until just recently last week so pre COVID time we were


meet up like once a month so you see six months, of not meeting how much we have saved in terms of the the , the Makan expenditure, that we had and


another one that I see a significant drop, is, transportation cost, because you don't go out, you don't take any public transportation you don't spend as much as we as we used to so if ya so if you talk about spending


definitely there is a huge decrease but if you talk about savings as in like putting more money into the kitty I don't think so because we are in the worst hit industry that we are now experiencing a pay cut


ya,


yes I mean we become more prudent in spending ya even recently when I meet up with my friends for meal right we used to go to like uh, maybe uh middle class restaurants, air condition no now no more, first it's because of uh safety reason uh second is also we we need to spend prudently so we have been like eating out in hawker centres open air spaces


ya to lower our risk, and then also hawker centres we can have, a huge variety of food but yet, at a very economical uh cost ya


ya because, ya because I think everybody is like worrying whether will I still have that rice bowl next month ya because the the the current situation is so fluid now regardless which industry


you are in and unless you are telling me you are in the medical or pharmaceutical industry where it's like making buckets of money now other than that everybody, job is like on the, thin line you you never know what is going to happen to you


yes ya


in singapore right I think it's quite difficult to retire early how early do we talk about forty five years old fifty fifty five or even sixties


and unless you can really plan your finances with a lot of, investment DOWN or a a a lot of good investment you know and not only that you have to be lucky then you can achieve the financial independence by the time you turn maybe fifty years old


else I don't think it's so easy because, okay for us like for a for for uh a singaporean woman you'll start to, work where you you you can you can start your career at the age of twenty one or twenty two but for a singaporean boy you only start your career at the age of


twenty four because they need to go to the army, ya so by the time they enter into the workforce you need that few years to work and also maybe make your mark by then you realise you are already thirty years old


then you talk about you want to start your family so it's like before you can make your money it has to go somewhere it has to go into like financing your wedding financing your housing and then you start a family go into the children or what so


the money you make will forever be, spending, so how how are we going to really achieve that financial independence I mean of course one way is by, by investing but you also need to have a pot of gold first before you talk about investing


true


, I think that is the kind of retirement we want


it's like really retire and not doing anything or you don't have to worry about your day to day needs it's like you don't have to work to feed yourself tomorrow


(mmhmm) ya, so do you think that one should own a credit card


true,


I think, I think because of all the the perks, that the credit cards are giving out it's good to have at least one or two credit card I mean usually it's good to have two because one can be a visa one can be a mastercard you know


see who is the issuer because sometimes you want to maximise the benefit you know sometimes you go out then they say oh do you own a visa card and then if you have a visa card you'll get this this this amount of discount or what, ya like, like you I used to own many many credit cards it because like !wah! this card give you free you know free annual fee free gift this perk that perk so you have a lot and then you also realise that you tends to spend more so now I


already cancel away many card, and kept only two, ya so from among all this card I choose the two that give me the most benefits like one is like a miles accumulation that can be used for in exchange of air tickets


and then the other one is more of like cash rebate uh like if I go it's like I go to uh watsons uh, fairprice a lot so I'll make sure that the card will give me the most rebate when I patronise these two places uh then you can use it as your like redemption for your next next uh purchase and like


you know one thing that really put me into a dilemma is we are going into, digitalisations you know the government is pushing us so much into going to digitalisation like uh, paying through your app


paying like like cashless going to a cashless environment but for me is I I don't know about the rest like for me is, if I don't hold cash right I will just spend money like water because I cannot see


I cannot see how much I spend, okay now it's like oh it's okay ten dollar only twenty dollars only thirty dollars but at the end of the month you realise that your accumulated expenditure is like gosh out of your budget you know, so that is why I'm still very hesitant like sometimes I go to hawker centre people uh people will say oh why don't you just scan the QR code and then pay by next you don't have to bring your wallet but if I bring a ten dollars with me


I'm very conscious with what I buy I know I know how much I have to utilise this ten dollar but if I have I just use my next card I'll probably easily spend twenty dollars, ya


negative experiences, so okay we look at the first question describe something you watch or read that gave you goosebumps do you have that experience


oh, avoided


(mmhmm) (mmhmm), ya, , usually things that give me goosebumps like that are things to do with the supernatural, uh super unnatural okay ya those those those are things I will always avoid because I don't like that kind of feeling so anything that talks about ghost Hantu all these thing I will always avoid I will tell my friend stop don't talk about it if not I'll walk away but recently I read it in


the social media is a experience by one of our cyclists auntie mel if you if you saw that post apparently oh you didn't, she apparently she went on a solo round island, ride in the evening when I when I saw that post I was like why would auntie mel want to go on a round island


ride in the evening I mean you know one part of the round island ride will go through Kranji and #lim chu kang# I guess it's because maybe it's cooler and also lesser traffic, and true enough next day uh


two days later I saw another post of her where she met with an unexplained incident while she was cycling uh, along #neo tiew# road into #lim chu kang# I I shall not elaborate but reading that post right it really bring goosebump to me and I'll tell myself that


I never never cycle, along that stretch alone ya you will have to go in a group otherwise do it in the morning, I mean when I say morning is, when the sun is up there not those five six AM when it's still dark I mean of course five six AM maybe it's okay lah because there's a lot of cyclist already but then


whether you believe it or not, I guess it's no harm to, believing that there are natural there are, there are natural souls around that area, (hmm)


ya so that that is the, the something that I read that really give me goosebump lah ya, a lot of things makes me angry, but you know my angry is always very short fuse you ask me to think back I also cannot really recall


not no


also very, for a very short moment of time, like I I I will stop telling you when I was looking at all these negative experience questions lah, I felt I'm a very easygoing and jovial person I couldn't really think of like incidents vivid incidents or moment that I could answer all these questions


ya, I don't I don't really can recall discuss uh maybe


, people people who fake people people who act like they are genuinely nice to you but they are not ya hypocrites yes ya what about you


(mmhmm)


, (mmhmm) ya, I think the next question would be a topic for discussion in a post COVID world eh no no no not this one number five what is an issue that you feel upset over because you feel the world needs to do more about it ah


huge topic ya ya,


I think what the world lack of is tolerance tolerance over each other's, and respect respect, each other's sovereignty, you know and if you really want to help being a stronger country if you really want to help


please help genuinely without a hidden agenda I mean you look at you look at what is now happening between the two giants of the world it's like, two kid two rich spoilt brat fighting


do you think so do you think things like okay okay you don't want to give me the red marble okay I shall not share, my toys with you something like that you know ya I was ah !aiya! why are all these people doing you know there are poorer country who are fighting for their survival and you know with the COVID going on now


and then here you are just like doing all sorts of things and, the recent remark that, the west has made was like if, the sea have taken over you or if the scene have has uh come on board you all have to start learning mandarin and then I was like what the hell are you talking about you know isn't the whole world also learning english because they know that you are stronger


I have to make business, I have to be in business with you so now when the other party become stronger you make such a remark uh not that I favour which sides but I just felt that eh everybody have, their own freedom of choice, in this world ya so


yes so besides climate change I think you see climate climate change are also man made uh inter relations are also man made so at the end of the the the day who are the the issues


are man made and is is about human it's all about us, let's look ya let's look at, number six in a post COVID world what are some of the worries and anxiety that you will face


, definitely


, yes I I guess when we talk about travel we are not, solely talking about, uh getting out of the country even stepping out of your home going to the market it's also a form of travel because you have to leave your present environment and get into another environment


ya, ya I think that is the most worrying part because we cannot afford another lockdown look at what has happened in australia, yes yes


, what frustrates you


I ya I I think you if you ask me what frustrate me I would say that dealing with humans is the most frustrating, thing of the world you know because every individual is unique there is no one size fits all


ya, and we always tell ourself like throughout our course of work we always tell ourselves as long as we can please eighty percent of the people it's excellent but often more than not we realise that it's the other twenty percent the minority


that, are making the most noise, that are putting you in a very bad like that you're not doing, good enough if you realise that uh, whereas the rest of the eighty percent of the people that are happy are keeping quiet because they are happy but nobody will stand up and say no


I think you are doing well you are doing a right job, you know they may tell you privately but not to not in the open ya, and I think that is really frustrating is that how well is


well how good is good because as long as you're dealing with human beings there's no such thing called perfect, uh there's no ya there's nothing is perfect like that's why I it coming to a point that why is


every country so upset about their government no matter who is the president no matter who is the prime minister nobody is happy, why because the government is formed by a group of people and


human beings are never perfect so how do you go and find a perfect government


, , ya I I guess I guess you just recently experienced this through your members your dragonboat members it's like they they are questioning why


aren't the dragonboat committee doing enough for the members in bringing back training but yet when you ask them do you have ideas, to support and then they will like just keep quiet


ya I think that's the most frustrating part then you are like so we are not a team because now we ask you for it if you have any ideas we didn't even ask you for solution is just like ideas so that we all can brainstorm together to see how to bring this more work but today is even if I have I'll keep it to myself


true true that's why human being is the most difficult creature in the world, true that's why


true, it's very toxic we don't need to even talk the the about twenty percent you just need five percent just that five percent is enough to effect


the whole morale the whole positive, positiveness the team has, ya okay I'm going to ask you this question okay before you ask me the other question


recall a scene from a movie that made you too angry to watch I want to ask this question first because I don't watch movie you know ,


, , yes


!wah!, greatest fear you you you know me right I don't like scaly animal, yes so I don't like snake I don't like lizards


slimy animals like frogs or so so that is my greatest fear ya anything that paw that crawls on on floors, uh


I can't really recall but then I just don't like especially snakes ya crocodiles ya monitor lizard lizards


ya just just simply don't don't like I also don't know, why like some people why some people don't like cockroaches ya ya ya it's probably a nature instinct ya so there is something that


(oo) ya yes, ya I think this this the the last question on the screen is a very good round up, to our negative experience do you have phobia how do you overcome them I think we're just talking about it earlier


okay about the greatest greatest fear like animals the the snake all this and also ah okay another, I think I share very similarly with our hiking lead is we can take hard


but we, cannot take that sudden, drop in heart, like rollercoaster ride uh the sinking feeling from rollercoaster from up down and then like bungee jump where you're from a high like you ask me to stand from somewhere that is so high up I don't have that fear of height


but I don't like the, drop ah, that is really my phobia that is what I don't take roller coaster, ah, so how do I overcome how do I overcome that I never do you I mean I have a very very bad experience at all my outdoors friends ah they know because it


they will remember for their life it will bring it it it will bring into their grave also because I made them, got punished very badly because I refuse to jump into the water, ya yup, oh do you want us to continue no okay


now okay, positive experiences, okay well this is a very passionate topic I don't think twenty minutes is enough,


oh describe a travel experience that left you in awe I shall let mabel start this because to me is every travel experiences is in awe to me I I really cannot pinpoint I really cannot pinpoint one


okay okay, yes


, (mmhmm)


(mmhmm) (mmhmm)


, , I know right


that is why we have that, that uh sentence on our T shirt the best view comes after the toughest climb


(mmhmm), , ya I'm sure okay after


so many years of travelling experience like , twenty over years in the, in the travel industry I've been to so many places I mean of course there are still a lot of, places that I wanted to go


I I would really say every time people asked know oh where where is the best place you have been all this I always tell people I I I cannot tell you that is this best place that I've been because to me it's every place, is unique is special in my heart even even if I'm going back to the place again I will always make it a point


to discover uh it's hidden gem the other side that people rarely go but last year yes last year, I probably finally found an answer to this question for the time being and that will be mongolia


ya it has always been it's always in the bucket list it's an aspiration that I want to go to mongolia, since I'm young or since I started dabbling in outdoor activities there are few countries that that will always be in my heart that I want to visit and mongolia is one


and true to it's the destination when you are there you see nothing but just vast of, grassland and blue skies as far as your eyes can see it's just grass and blue skies and there are


more animals than human beings you can see throughout our four days of cycling besides a couple of nomads the locals there, we only see another three tourist


uh maybe not three tourist okay okay two tourist because one is their guide a local mongolian that lead them the other two are, israeli ah who are there also to do mountain biking just like us so it was like


it was so surreal and everything is so carefree, you you suddenly realise that there four days you don't have any worries because also uh when we are in the grassland the connections is not good you you you don't expect to have wifi phone connection is also not good so you don't have messages come in you cannot access


your social media you can't really do a lot of thing except cycle enjoy the scenery wait for our cook to cook us our meals and then uh mingle and interact among ourselves, and one thing I realised that uh which is very similar to your fansipan experience is that when you have a small group


the the the bonding you have is always stronger because during free times right there is just so few of you you you will have to interact if you don't interact, with each other there's really nothing you can do because you cannot look at your phone there's no connection you know so when you interact you realise that you get to know each other better and the friendship and the bond is so much stronger even after the trip when you all return


uh so, that that is something that I I really really enjoy uh especially in the outdoors when you don't have connection because that is the really the only time you make it a point to connect with people


ya yes, yes and also I have a I I have a healthier lifestyle because no phone no messages no emails don't have to see what other people do on their social media I sleep early I have very good quality sleep because we we cycle in the day we are so tired like for yourself your hike you're already so tired so after dinner


you retire at about eight o'clock so by the time you sleep it's about nine and then you wake up next morning so fresh, with I think the freshest air in the in the world at six AM and you don't feel tired at all you just automatically wake up at six AM and you feel so good so fresh I think I think the the the the experience is is is really


out of this world and I'll always encourage people if they can take the first step and enjoy the nature, okay okay yes eight minutes


okay ya ya let's look at,


uh I thought I would want to reserve that to the next topic which is negative experience, !wah! that the the, over the weekend we we met or we are greeted with a snake !wah! I tell you that few second ah I merely felt my heart is merely going to pop up


does that consider adrenaline rush, uh or maybe rollercoaster I I okay I have not taken a rollercoaster for the for the longest time because I never liked that heart thumping moment like your heart is going to fall out everything's like going to throw out those kind of moment ya so


I think the next adrenaline rush which I will really want to give myself is a skydiving experience other than that, I won't do bungee jump I won't do another rollercoaster ride I won't even jump off a waterfall no matter how how deep I know the water is


yes ya what about yourself


ya it's like it's like that is the moment why you are training so hard for, , ya ya as I was looking at this uh positive experience list questions I find that a lot of the questions that we have to answer or we have to discuss are very reflection self reflection moments


because it makes me reflect back on my life and what have I achieved so far like for example, what are the proudest moment of your life what makes you want to be alive


what is a skill or an ability that you're secretly proud of having and to be honest I have never, thought of them at all,


, ya then I was like, are we have to answer all these questions because I was thinking very hard, very very hard, like what is the proudest moment of my life do I ever have that moment you know what is like


a skill that I secretly proud of having do I really have a skill or ability that I'm proud of


(mmhmm), ya ya so the time has not come


, and that will also leads to the moment when I felt the luckiest you know when you landed safely on land


, true true like I like we always says that we dabble in the outdoors the element of risk is always higher we are so affected by


uh forces that we cannot control for example like the weather in the nature things can change just overnight which we cannot control, ya


uh !wow!, there is two sides to this one is do I need to perspire , I think you will know the answer if I don't need to perspire then it's definitely drama drama marathon that is my favourite you know indoor activity if you ever ask me what's my best


indoor activity ya it's drama marathon ya ya and then if I have to get to the outdoors uh for now it's definitely cycling, yes ya this is this is too because I mean uh okay sometimes I also run okay run is a a another good form of uh


relaxation I mean if I the the me me time of relaxation or reflection I tend to think a lot when I cycle alone I run alone but run I cannot sustain long distance anything more than ten will were going to going to kill me you know I cannot think anymore already


but cycling I can go so much longest distance and and really uh I find that, it's the best kind of relaxation that I have for myself


yes what about you


(mmhmm), (mmhmm)


(mmhmm),


that is why when I go cycling I need to make sure what type of uh mood I'm bringing to that cycling, ya, ask you do you still keep in touch with your primary school friend


oh that's not bad, that's not bad, ya to be able to keep in touch occasionally with your with your primary school I mean way back to primary school I mean I don't even bring in kindergarten if you still do keep in touch with kindergarten right I think that is remarkable


I lost touch with primary school friends but I still keep in touch with secondary school friends ya very closely we still meet up uh quite often so I for for me I think, that is very important because they are the one that have seen you growing up we have seen each other grown up


you know compared to friends you made during your uh maybe your tertiary times or during your working time is very different, well the kind of friendship that you have is very different ya so keep it up continue to keep in touch with your primary school friends


, ya, but do you still feel that kind of closeness, or it's just like a formality of catching up because you are being primary school friends


, okay okay


like like uh you talk about the current topic right oh like the COVID lah, then you talk about uh how the government is doing lah you like your government you don't like your government , ya and and I think it's quite true that the older you are the lesser friends you have but they are the quality friends


(ppl) (mm) true okay


right clap ah, okay, yup


okay, so Zakhi what do you want to talk about first, uh I'm ready I'm ready okay what okay uh what what what what investment products do you


do you dabble in with right now


ya but, ya like like okay because , uh okay because like uh personally for me, my mum used to be a stockbroker so, like I think, uh when I was growing up she actually taught me a bit


so I was kind of interested, way back when I was like younger, so right now uh I don't dabble so much but I only so far I only have like uh, bonds and shares which are like the most basic uh financial investment products you can find


so like so for like bonds is like basically you just hold on to like so basically you just giving up your money, to like maybe the government, or like, some financiers or like some company so then they will repay you a certain amount, within a like maybe four five five ten years


so basically you have like so basically you'll get back a uh you'll know you'll get back this amount of money, understand ya ya ya ya, ya ya and like shares, I mean but shares it's a bit more risky I think because it's like


it depends on like, I mean by unless you're investing in a blue chip company so a blue chip company is like maybe like apple microsoft, so those are those are like very high prices shares but they're not that risky as compared to like maybe, if you invest in some like


or like maybe a chinese firm that just gone to the, share market and then they trading at like twenty cents then you just buy it then you never know maybe next week they just fall or something so you'll probably lose all your money


wait how how does how does that work like how does the ETF work, do you know


but isn't isn't the the the stock market now is I think uh if you think about it it's more, dominated like the share is more now dominated by like those really big company so, there's not there's not actually much option you know to be to be honest like I prefer if the stock market was like the eighties and nineties because


those are more like, you know it it reflects more like , a lot of diverse, like diverse , uh views like diverse, the economy so basically it actually reflects the the the the all the companies that are available like on the street lah so right now if you see the S and P five hundred is more of like


uh just tech companies ya it's just mostly just tech companies, ya, apparently like I think ya continue continue


ya ya definitely it's not it's not it's not definitely reflective because, the problem is the stock market doesn't, represent the economy because it only is dominated by like, really really big like those big companies like


and no I, and and you think about it I think stock market is more of like a future prediction so, like okay like because like uh when the pandemic first started, uh the stock market went to a free fall like just went down quickly because they predicted that the economy will slow down so right now I think after a while the pandemic has happened a few months so right now they I think they kind of like


predicting that, the economy will recover so that's why I think uh the I think there's a rise in the in the stock market, so like okay now ok right ya but I think we should move on to like maybe , I think more local context I think we'll talk about the CPF


what do you think about the like , like okay you know you do know that we can, invest uh our CPF money right, ya so but but the problem is, apparently from what I read only ten like you can only invest I think up to like


you've to set aside twenty thousand in your, uh ordinary account and ten eh twenty thousand in your special account then ten thousand in your, eh, I'm not sure some amount lah I think it's like about thirty thousand something, ya, ya ya so and then


ya but then from that on right you can only invest thirty five percent in like stocks and shares and stuff so, I think it's very limiting because okay if you look uh if you look just like maybe south you look at australia they have this, they have something called a they have something like a CPF so basically the employer and the employee will contribute to this fund but it's called a superannuation fund but the good thing is that hundred percent of the fund


gets to be invested and you can choose which like investment firm, uh invest your money so, in a sense that it gives you more financial freedom you know like in singapore is very is very limiting and, and like, and like people always say that oh uh singapore is no like oh very very low income tax and stuff problem is I look at CPF


as, probably it is an income tax because you don't actually get to use that money until you're like, sixty plus, ya so if you think about it, our uh like if our income tax also CPF right it will be like thirty plus percent which is like what we are contributing the CPF right now


ya but


eh but like, ya so the problem is so the problem is if the government is so I don't know I don't get why the government don't allow you to, use your full CPF money, to invest in what you want


but then they get to use, ya so no so it's so is it's it's kind of no it's kind of no I think it's the limiting it's just very limiting for, people, to have to save but then but then not not be able to use it to you know, uh like build on future assets you know so it's very


counterproductive I would say, I might if they want us if they want if they want the if they want people to have like a pension fund right shouldn't they help help like like allow the people to grow their pension fund, instead of like just limiting them to like maybe thirty five percent of the of the amount to be invested


which I think is a very poor, like I wouldn't call CPF a very poor but it's just very, not, well thought of ah ya ya, ya I mean but


ya true ah, but you have to think about it almost, almost thirty percent of your money is tied up, in in ya, in your CPF so I mean by


ya it it I know I I mean but it it shouldn't but the problem is, like incomes in singapore are not, that high that you know you have extra spare to like you know, invest you know because a lot of it a lot of it goes to already like you know house like your your your your house loans your maybe your car loan and stuff or maybe your your


uh your kids' education fund so, if you think about it that's like, uh a large portion of your income is taken away, just to be kept away ya, ya and when think about it even even the even the CPF interest rate is not that high is is like


it it's freaking low man, ya I mean by if you like if you take all your CPF money and you put it in like a a a maybe a low risk, like trust fund I think you can probably earn more than, putting it in like some ya


uh no I don't trust cause, from me is stock market is mostly just you know it it's, it doesn't follow, how how to say data it's not like it's not it's not data driven it's more, feel driven you know it's more like it's more like speculation driven so it's so it's not


so it's like for example a a a CEO that that people like gets fired then suddenly the stock goes down then, how do you how the how the hell does the robo-advisor, you know predict that you know like oh this this is a well liked CEO so the stock would you know go go go down straight away


like, I don't think a robo-adviser will account for that, oh ya true lah


nah like I basically like, for me robo-advisor I don't , it's not I don't know like, it's not it's not a it it's not even that popular among like really, like really big like uh like


trust funds and like stuff so so like I wouldn't know how effective it is if even the really like you know really big, firms and stuff don't don't trust it you know, also also like okay, okay now let's let's let's


that's like now there's less the last topic I think we should tackle on like why, the malay community thinks that investing or trading is like gambling, why do you think so, because I've I've heard I've heard these a lot of I've heard this I've heard this a lot among like my


my uh my relatives because like you know my mum my mum, my mum is a stockbroker so she she actually plays the stock lah, so and like, you know I've heard like comments you know from like my relatives say oh is like isn't that like more like gambling you know you don't know like, why


uh when when the stock crashes and stuff so you'll lose your money


but okay but in in like in like in like a certain in in, in like a a more uh contextual nature for like our community, you you do you do realise why they considered it like gambling because I think it's more of like no I I think I think is more of of of a cultural thing than a religious thing cause I think for the malay community ya the risk appetite


for for financial loss you know for, ya is is very very low is very very low like


[orh] on the appen appen app


okay Zakhi I see, oh okay


what's, ah okay let's let's start with a, uh what's your greatest fear, it's a very deep question but uh I think, it's a good thing to start with ya, sorry


oh greatest fear honestly uh, greatest fear, like I have a lot of fears ah but, I don't know which one is the greatest but one of the fears I have is that, not fulfilling my uh potential like, like


ya ya so like for me since young uh people always tell me that oh I have a lot of potential and stuff you know and like I I need to like you know, uh like really you know work hard to, fulfill it lah like even when I was like back in was primary school I was really


like I would, I was given a really hard time by like my teachers and stuff because, uh, I think they kind of know that oh like I can do well in studies but I choose not to do well, because I was more focused on like playing, playing football and stuff


uh like play soccer and like I made the like I was the school soccer captain and stuff so, I wasn't looking, like for me, my potential I was looking towards like my potential was like more of like oh uh I'm going to be more of like a a a athlete you know


uh, play play soccer you know maybe go to sports school and stuff, but I was really pushed by my teachers in primary school they're like oh you really eh you really need to do well for your PSLE you know because that's the really, the the the the factor that will decide, a lot of your future you know majority


a a major part of your future PSLE and they really pushed me lah and like, I was given so many remedial classes I have to stay back in school like maybe out of like five days I have to stay back like four or five days and stuff, and


they really pushed me leh like really I got like really good score that's why I got the goody good school but right now like, , like you don't get that kind of same guidance in in in uni you know, you don't really get the kind same push you know, people don't actually look look look after you that much or they don't like guide you they don't


uh, ya ya so it's so ya ya so as you grow older as you grow older you need to you need to have your your own push you know your own motivation, so that's what I'm scared of like I'm scared that I'm not pushing myself enough, so I'm scared I'm not like like like like, fulfilling my own potential ah like people see potential in me but


I don't see it in I I, I have a hard time I have a hard time seeing it myself so so like I just want to, ya so that's that's probably one of my greatest fear lah and and and maybe like another one would be, another one would be like


uh sorry, so another would be ya so another one would be like uh disappointing, like uh, my family ah mostly my parents so, that's the thing I'm uh probably fear like like


up till now I still don't know what's enough so like I really don't know like, or like am I doing enough like are they proud of me or stuff like that, so that's that one of my other fears ah so I don't I don't know about you ah but you know you can carry on from there


ya true


I think I think it's I think it's never too late though like honestly honestly it's never it's never like, people always say people always think there's a there's a people always think there's a ticking clock you know people always think there's a ticking clock to whatever, you set out to achieve you know but I I really think it's, there's there's no like you know so people finish their people do their races


like in different speeds, ya at your own time ya definitely ya


ya fair enough, so so like uh, let's let's talk about another topic so like, do you have an event that made you very angry like anything that happened had made you, very very angry


but is there is there a like specific event


any event


ya, well what about what about the like okay like ah other than global what about any personal events


ah, so you got angry or you got very angry, (uh huh)


ya, it's not it's not it's not it's not a good it's not a good it's not a good uh feeling it's not a good uh emotion too, to let loose ah ya I would say


ya leads leads to change lah definitely ya, ya


ya true lah no for me for me it's not, looking back, I was surprised I wasn't angry but, right now I kind of was angry like like if I look back at it I'm angry because, this event like really, uh set the tone for me like in in terms of


viewing how, uh, racial relations are in like in in our country lah because I think I was back then I was like in in primary, two, uh I was this uh I was in uh #boon lay# primary school so they had this uh you know uh prize giving ceremony


ya ya so like you know like basically uh prize giving ceremony cause I was like top in class top in like math and stuff right so they had a recording video so every before I walked up the stage every person like they walked up the stage right they will have a recording of video and then they will ask you like uh when you grow up what do you wanna be


okay so like when I did my first recording so I told them that oh when I grow up I want to be a a fighter pilot, and and after that I thought I was done over with but then like a day before the prize giving ceremony just one day before, and I did the recording like two three weeks beforehand and then one day before and they were like they called me back to the recording room said


can you change uh what you want to be you know maybe something more generic, and I was surprised I was like oh why uh no no it's just no no no uh we messed up the recording but uh can you do that again oh but but change the occupation, so that kind of kind of got me surprised but uh back then I was like still eight years old so I didn't know what was what was wrong so I changed my answer but then looking back at it I understand why they ask me to change because


if they played it in front of like you know uh the crowd you know when I want to be a fighter pilot I think, they were trying to make me ya they were trying to they were trying to tell a kid that you can't be something, even before he even attempted being it so you know it's kind of like


looking back at it I I felt quite a mad kind of mad like really angry, that, I let something like that happen, I would I wouldn't know whether I let it lah but it's more of like I was so naive, to to to let something like that happen and I and I never confronted anybody about it


ya so is like uh ya so that made me, feel very angry because like if if think what if if there was like if that was like my kid and like oh like the school told them oh you know , you have to change your answer of who you want to be because, realistically you can't be that I meant who who are they to tell them you know uh what they can and cannot be


ya, and so for for for like, ya, ya you get you get a lot of that ah like and an for example like for me, uh you know uh, back when I was in I same lah back and I was like I was in others I was in different primary school in primary six so in primary six


uh you know how they always uh, uh people like all the all the kids always like uh have this secondary like the secondary school book, where you choose your schools, right, so you can see the cutoff point and stuff so like a lot of the kids are like planning ahead but for me I wasn't like me and my I think uh I'm not being stereotypical but me and a lot of my malay friends uh we weren't like very focused on that we we weren't planning ahead you know and and we got like a big


like like like when I was in like there was one uh one day one of the form teachers came down and say oh have you guys decide on your school so then me, like like a few of my malay friends in the in the in the class like we we say oh we we don't care we just let's see our score then apply then, and we got a really big scolding and she was like referring to like our race and stuff and saying that oh you and your race ah typical you know don't you guys don't you know plan ahead and stuff so


that, for me that was a awakening for me I was like wait, why why are why are you referring to my race my people like what what's wrong with them like it's not just them you know like I know like a a few other people of a different race you know who who don't ya they don't plan so


I don't get why we were targeted so from there, like , it was a really rude awakening weakening for me lah honestly, ya you're unable to defend yourself honestly lah it's it's, ya


no but like I know I know like you wish you did something differently but what I'm angry about is that, is that why it happened in the first place like, I mean by uh school is where you shouldn't be, subjected to like racial like profiling you know you shouldn't be, you shouldn't be subject to to


uh racial biases or like you know racial insinuations in school is supposed to be a safe, safe space for kids it shouldn't be, you know I mean but, I mean but if you faced it in the outside world I understand lah but is a school especially from your teachers that's very


uh unbecoming of them ya


ya true


ya it's good that it's it's good as you popping out like cause like I think it's long overdue, cause, the problem with the the problem with the problem with the the problem with the uh society in singapore is that, this kind of topics are like very taboo, so I and like and like every time every time when someone brings it up people will just say oh why you trying to stir racial riots stuff


problem is, if you keep if you keep if you keep it, if you try to keep it under under like under the under the uh like under the boil right ya ya so it'll it'll it'll it will tend to, so once it comes out right it will comes out in like a more, disturbing way you know so like ya


so you can't always try to keep it under the under the carpet say just sweep it under the carpet like you can't do that like cause, one day, those things are gonna come out, ya it just it just gonna come out


ya lor so it it it ya


ya, okay so, no uh I think it you should talk about uh your


you your travel experience in the middle east man ya ya I'm interested in listening to that


(uh huh) !wah!, belarus ah , oh ya ya I think I, for me, travel experience for me like the best the best one I had was is usually the ones where


uh I'm not in a group so it's like maybe two or three or like maybe alone, so for me the best travel experience I had was like uh, uh there was, actually it was in uh vietnam


ya so so like you know and like it was like really unplanned, so for me I really don't like you know how uh I cause I've been on like, uh, on like travel tours you know, so like you know they have like schedule plan they have like a itinerary for you


like you have to follow itinerary and stuff so really for me that's very I really feel, like uh uncomfortable with that, like for me I really need to have like a uh like travel, uh, experience where like oh it like it free so like oh the whole day is free for you you do what you want you know and like oh like do whatever like comes you know


you don't have to like plan I don't like planning ahead, do when I travel, so I just do whatever I want, so for me like in vietnam that was what happened so ya it was really fun cause like, just take your time you know you don't have to follow a certain


uh like uh, plan to go there or go here


ah ya true lah I mean by that that's that's in ya yes you have to plan where you have to stay lah but, other than that


playing yourself, how does how does planning yourself gets tiring man is the best uh planning your, planning your own is the best bro, is like is like the only, it's like so freeing you know, I mean by other if , unless you really don't have like unless you really don't have plans lah like you really don't know what to do lah then maybe yes


it's tiring lah ya but like, ya lah maybe maybe cause you, cause maybe cause your for you is three weeks ah like, I was in vietnam for like ten days only ah so wasn't three weeks ah so like there was a lot to do with, very little time so


ya, where, no I mean by at where where did you say you're planning to travel


did you say you planned to travel somewhere, europe , no lah just kidding, oh ya ya ya ya


fair fair


bro south america, come on man south america is like, it's like you have to go there man


twenty twenty four what, ya like, I mean by ya I think if a vaccine comes out right, I think uh it will be like


full steam ahead so ya I don't have to worry all that but, ah ya ya ya future pandemic it's true lah but


very very rare so you want to start


are you sure


ya I get I get what you mean like like like ya, like, but ya but the problem is uh you know, it's very hard it's very hard to to get that kind of luck you know, cause


uh I mean it depends lah like, I mean by so far every time my wallet has come back every time my wallet has come back to me and has always been missing my money ah also,


ya (uh huh)


oh bro, ya so I think this one, unwind and relax ah I'm not sure like like I would say, I would say like, you know gymming ah but the problem is these days ah whatever there's like exam period right


I try to unwind by going to the gym ya ya, does just doesn't, just doesn't feel right you know like your mind is still like, your mind is still like focus on like, on the exams and stuff so you like you can't focus properly, so


ya ya ya ya so it's like it's very hard like I'm not sure whether that that's a that's a good activity to unwind lah so, currently I'm actually trying to find something that, you know uh uh maybe like a side hobby, to, to do you know so that you know not that it's not that taxing that our


like you know be stressed out over exams but also like something to take my mind off it so right now I think for me mostly like if I try to, calm down what I'll do is maybe, uh either sleep, I mean by sleep always helps for me either that I will just watch uh watch stuff on netflix


so ya so, that's probably the only thing that works, right now what about you


ya ya definitely that that's, ya that's that's definitely I'll watch I will not watch the all the, all the very you know right those kind of very intense shows or stuff I'll just watch like something you know ya that's why I always, I keep I keep rerunning how I met your mother or like friends every single time even though I watched like I think I ever watched like


how I met your mother like eight times rerun in netflix already man, !huh!, oh dude I


I've I've ya ya ya, dude I absolutely hate I absolutely hate, uh series right where there's only like, two three seasons and like five episodes only I really hate it like like because


like cause if you will run out of it very fast then you like after that you just like, think about it you just think like oh shit what what what I wanna watch next and, trying to decide what to watch next is that's the problem that's the that's the, that's what I hate ya ya ya


ya ya true true true ya ya ya eh that that that that's the problem like during exam ah like you always you always so stress then you always try to like you know go back watch netflix watch netflix watch netflix then, when you finish exams, you don't even fucking you don't even you don't even touch netflix, ya


so that that's that's ya that's that's that's a uh that's a weird occurrence, driving that's a very expensive activity , that's a that's a very costly


costly activity, oh !whoa! !whoa!,


I mean but ya I get it lah but, but like you know driving especially in singapore instead of relaxing you most of the time I just feel stress bro, , your what


oh ya lah twelve AM maybe ya better lah but I mean by if you drive at a normal times oh my god it's not never relaxing


ah true ya


ya true ah ya


you can you can move okay move to the last point lah like, , sorry, oh you do it man I'll be choosing the last, three


what do you wanna talk about, ah , dude faster quickly dude


(ppl) ya


oh, yup, uh oh it's just one time alright


ya we've clapped, alright sure, so, I think we can start with the investment products and all that but you do you wish to start first or


I feel personally personally right now I don't actually like invest anything in the stock market or whatever because I think I lack the funds and because I'm not working


and but like for me personally is like it's just about building up the knowledge about the stock market and about like the different investment products that are available in the market right now so uh for you you do you already invest in the stock market or


right, okay


(ppc)


(uh huh)


correct correct ya that's what I understand from the government bonds, and then for, (mmhmm) ya


right (ppc), (mmhmm) ya primary stocks true


ya especially in this economy right now but ya as in for me right now I mostly researching more I'm quite I'm mostly interested in like ETFs as in exchange traded fund because for me I think I'm my risk appetite when it comes to investments is not very high


so my risk appetite is fairly like I wouldn't say it's low but I think it's just average so I prefer to and then especially with like exchange traded funds you are in a way you are diversifying because you are uh because it's


based on the index of the like the best performing companies so like for the US market you have your S and P five hundred and then for singapore you have your straits times index so I think for me I, uh so for ETF basically uh basically you have in a way it's different from a mutual fund because ETF track this you are also trading the ETF from the exchange so in a way it is you are


trading your ETFs but the thing is that your ETFs is tracking the it's tracking sorry not ability but it is it's tracking like the whole the average of all your the


index itself so the index itself is a measure of how well did (ppc) all these good companies are performing so like for the S and P five hundred you have your best five hundred five companies so this includes your shared like this includes your companies such as like amazon apple


facebook whatever uh microsoft so all this it so, I think the difference is that because for shares you are, investing in individual stocks individual, shares of individual companies so your the performance of your shares is based on that individual company itself whereas for the ETF itself because it is tracking like five over five hundred and five companies so and then this five hundred five companies they don't just fall under one


like industry or whatever so it can be like food F and B like coca cola F and B all that it can be your tech companies so the thing is because it is, very diversified it is in a way like it suits me because for like for someone of my risk appetite lah because I think it is because technically I would say technically but because the not say assumption but you are like throughout history I think the stock market has been


progressively like improving like if if you comparing like from the nineteen thirties, from the great depression times like the stock market is


ya ya is is more dominant, ya


(ppc), I agree I agree, I think it's dominated like ya it's very dominated I agree so I think this


ya as in I don't ya as in you right in the sense where because is dominated by all these tech companies and all these like because everyone is now like trying to, buy in to all these tech companies because like especially during the, uh coronavirus pandemic because of all the injections from the US government into the stock market I think


and then the fact that all these like amazon all these tech companies are doing well, during the pandemic because they offer obviously because unlike like your traditional companies these tech companies are, very flexible and they and I think the the thing is also that all these companies itself they already dabble in so many different industries so like amazon has sought a wide range of


like it's not just the amazon web is like you have all your amazon prime your video conferencing you have all your like they dabble in food and all that so I think, all this like I think the issue right now is that all these companies are getting too big like in the same way where during the financial crisis you have big banks sorry you have banks where they were too big to fail in the


in today's scenario I think you have companies where they are too big and because they are they are always acquiring new and newer companies so you are right in the sense lah but I think, for me I think the


thing about the stock market now is that I think like one of the points is that it doesn't the stock market is not the economy meaning that the stock market is not reflective of the economy at all because I think right now the economy as in obviously because of the coronavirus pandemic the economy isn't doing


too amazing lah but if you are only basing it off the stock market it would, be very surprised because the stock market is doing exceptionally well because of its its current bullish run, and, (ppc)


, (mmhmm), and it is represented by people's uh I wouldn't say it's gambling lah but is reflected by people's like their what they want


(ppc), , perhaps lah but definitely


, alright sure uh, ya definitely like so long as you


, ya basically you must have a minimum sum in your which is fair lah because at the end they your


(mmhmm), (mmhmm) right right (mmhmm) right right right


(mmhmm)


fair enough fair enough, , but I guess in a way because CPF at the end because singapore is not welfare state so CPF is your is basically your back not say your backup plan but it is your pension fund because like after you retire and all that you


uh but I I think what, what I understand also is because okay like the government uses the CPF money to reinvest in their own, like


I think like , like if you personally I agree lah I think


(ppc) (mmhmm), correct


like not as efficient as not as but I think in that manner I think I I I don't know anything about the australian like pension scheme or whatever but I think for CPF because, like I wouldn't say I think my biggest issue is I think is the lack of transparency but I'm not too because obviously I'm not working yet so I don't really have the full like understanding of how CPF is or how like we are


like like using CPF as a investment vehicle I think in a way for me I just see it as that CPF is one path that you can take but it shouldn't be your only path when it comes to investment lah you are investing, like you are obviously investing your savings


definitely lah, I mean people people definitely have big issues with CPF lah I think because you cannot like even like right now like even during the coronavirus pandemic your people are unable to withdraw their CPF money and


like to tide the times so like they are very reliant like let's say you are unemployed you are reliant on the government's whatever like benefits and support systems that they're providing, but ya I think like I think we should be talking more about the investment like because I'm not too sure about how like I think for the CPF investment scheme it is


ya I I think it's just like a supplement rather than it shouldn't be your main it definitely shouldn't be your main investment vehicle if you are


I agree I agree, (mmhmm) (ppc) (mmhmm)


that's true I think that true I think I think ya disposable income like disposable income wise in singapore, definitely ya I think it's just to beat as in like it's just to beat inflation lah


, ya probably most possibly lah as in but like I say lah as in because CPF is the government needs you to have that sum of money so that when you retire you don't run the risk of not having


enough but I think the that's the problem lah as in some people don't have enough in their, CPF accounts when they retire but ya I think when you we're talking about all this low risk funds and all that but I think like the one of the points are using have have you consider using a robo-advisor to invest or like have you like been researching


, ya, as in is sort of basically I wouldn't say is speculative different different but


right but I think a robo-advisor is is just is a very low risk kind of like, because I think even if you go on like because you can adjust your risk that the risk that the robo-advisor goes on but, I think it's even if you put it on the highest rate like okay so like one of the local robo advisors that I've seen is uh stashaway so I think like even if you put it on a very like aggressive like according in the term of the app itself lah like if you put it on aggressive


it's actually not very like it's not as high risk obviously as like if you are putting money in, other more volatile stocks but I think again like it's all about diversifying lah because robo right okay robo-advisors I guess the good thing is that it gives you a


I I wouldn't say it's a like they don't promise you like oh you get the as in obviously with anything to do with the stock market you can't trust promises lah because like you obviously for me my my philosophy behind investment is that you should never put money that you are not willing to lose


when you are investing lah because I think with any kind of investment it can always go downhill so like you shouldn't be putting in like let's say you have ten thousand dollars only you obviously shouldn't be putting in ten thousand dollars to uh invest but ya I think with robo advisors it's a very


it is it's basically for people I think it is good for people who don't want to because I think with the if you buying shares and all that you must be very, like you must always be keeping up like you said lah because you don't know when all these things like the fundamental analysis so basically you don't know where all these CEOs stand but you must be reading like oh what plans are this is this company like involving itself in in the future but with robo advisors it's just a very


obviously your returns will not be as great as if you obviously like uh researching your own, shares to buy or the stocks to buy or like ETFs to go into but I think it is uh, I think like it's a combination of technology and as in like is in in the sense it's it's future driven lah because I think people are


as much as you say it's not data as in like the stock market is not data driven but there is things like for your fundamental analysis and all that which is and your technical analysis of the stock market which is dependent obviously on how whether you see the stock market as a very whether it's a


semi strong efficiency or whether it's a weak efficiency all that but ya I think, for me like okay because for me like I said I don't invest much but I've been reading up quite a fair bit on all this so, whether it be like your REITs your like robo-advisors such as stashaway and all that but ya I think moving on uh do you have do but you don't really like you don't have you been researching on advisors at all


oh not really not really ah, , fair enough like I said this maybe not your is


ya of course of course as in cause for I think for because for them they are they are, true fair enough fair enough what about like crypto have, like okay


, uh fair enough I think,


I think it's a cultural, was a, (mmhmm) right right, (mmhmm) right


but I think it's definitely very it's definitely very different, like I wouldn't consider it gambling okay but even gambling I feel is very, like you cannot really compare investing to gambling because obviously you with investments unless you are obviously making investments with no basis at all like oh uh like let's say


I am going to invest hundred thousand in KFC because suddenly I think next year, everyone has uh everyone will be like craving for KFC or something as in obviously that is, I would consider investing like that like an investing without any information or without any like research I think that's definitely like gambling but even with gambling you have like okay let's say like you are gambling for sports


ya ya of course of course


I it's not very high yes, and I think it's not just about risk appetite all that lah is the fact that do I think a large proportion don't invest because I think the lack of disposable income I think because investments obviously


will come from your disposable income but if you are already lacking like if you are already living like paycheque to paycheque living, food hand to mouth all that and then ya I feel like I think it's more of whether you find uh investment okay or not I think it's just a matter of your exposure to it ya I think that's how I feel about it lah ya okay


ya I think that wraps up everything for this topic [lah]


okay I think you start first you can choose the


what is the greatest fear you wanna start or you can start lah you can start with it


I was going to say that lah ya, fulfill the


(mmhmm), right right


sports right, (mmhmm)


!wow!, (mmhmm) (mmhmm)


, (mmhmm)


ya of course of course, ya, but that is life lah I mean like after ya


(mmhmm) your own drive ya true, but ya you were squandering it like if ya ya ya, fair enough fair enough


spiders no no continue sorry


(mmhmm), yup true fair enough ya ya


ya I think I have the I honestly I was thinking the two same things right like I thought was going to bring up the disappointing my family part when because you already talked about, not fulfilling your potential but I think that I I kind of get you like we are in similar I think like you know like when you're young everyone keep saying {oh} like oh this boy is very smart this boy like you get


in a way it does get into your head lah like because I think you get very like oh ya like, not say not say I thought I was very smart lah as in like I mean but I mean like, you always thought like ya I I think I can do good like if I work hard and I think like if I do well then like I can be something like especially like you said lah I think we've mentioned about being in the malay community I think like there's additional pressures in the sense that


because like if you are a malay and then you are in like university and then you are in like a top school and all that so people will be like oh you must be representing I think a lot of it is the pressures and all that like, not say I felt that pressure lah but I mean like you always get have that thing where you felt like oh I must be representing my community and then I must be


because like I'm one of the few like malays in a top school or like in a university, so that you always feel like you must prove there's something to be proven and then that like if you don't prove that certain thing then like you feel like you are


like you have failed lah I think like ya I think growing up I think a lot of this the fear of failure or the fear of not being the best that the fear that I'm limiting myself ah because like I'm not as, I definitely I think for me, like you know like a lot of people like will will be working hard and all that but for me like I'm always I'm always okay with just doing like bare not say bare minimum but just like doing okay to get by you know like in that same thing but then like I don't want that out of like life lah because you don't want


like I don't want to be like at thirty years old and then keep regretting and then or thirty forty like don't want to regret and then, keep saying like if only I did this if only I did that I think like that's not a very healthy way to live so my greatest fear is also like in the future I don't wanna be regretting like I don't want to do things that will make my the future me like regret


so like I don't want to like not go for opportunities that are presented to me like I don't want to like squander because I think it's very easy to, say that oh if only I think like it does I think for everyone it pops up in your head like if only I did this if only I did that if only I was in


so and so I think that's when like that's when it also like affects your mindset lah because you like you feel like but I think like regardless of where you are at your point in life there's always time to, change I think there's always time like especially like during our like I think like I think right now because we are we are in our twenties and then like ya


ya I think a lot of is social is, , ya, ya at their own time ah ya


ya that's the thing lah I feel like because I think it's just about getting but it's sometimes it's hard because like you not say you are forced to compare but I think it's just you inevitably end up comparing like where you stand with your peers so like, like let's say at like twenty seven then you hear like uh like someone you know is like direct not say director level but ya as in like at a higher position in the company I think that's when you start comparing it like oh why am I doing my life I think that is a


I think that a lot of it it's the mindset thing lah like it's just but ya as in one thing is definitely I don't really I don't want I don't one thing is just to get out of that mindset and like I don't want my future like the future, me to always be like thinking about because I think life is as in you shouldn't I think life's too short to keep regretting things that you never do or like


or like Macam like you regret doing that kind of thing I think you do like everything that you've done is makes you like, is part and parcel of who you are right now lah I think that is the my philosophy also lah like you are like you are who you are right now because of all the experiences that you faced and all the things that you didn't do so like ya so that is the


take ya for me great like why are you talking about the greatest fear ya think move, , ya


oh angry I think okay I think when we're talking about personal stuff I try not to be as angry anymore like I think for me nowadays what I find ah and makes me very angry is, the general state of the world like you know like a lot of inequality injustices or like uh


I think okay if you want to talk okay I don't want to touch too much about like the recent elections or like even okay like let's say the recent lebanon, oil tank I mean sorry not oil tank but like the explosion is like it like so it's so like it makes you very as in like as a human being was like it makes you so angry that


that as in like people in that like the government of that country didn't, like take care of their people like I think for me what makes me angry about the governments of the world is that so like you're missing the point of being the government like as a government you're supposed to take care of your people, you're supposed to but every day you hear news that oh like so and so country is like it's only like they're only helping the rich like the poor people are left for the scraps or like they are not taken care of so for me I feel like I think


maybe of how I feel like growing up like because I think like I am like I am a very aware of like my privilege as in especially like we are born in singapore like in a very, like in a way it's a very sterile environment like you don't face as much


uh things that happen but I think like because I've been I think one thing is my travels but and also like I think because of like the online space I've, had the opportunity to meet and talk to people from like all over the world so like I think as like I think they like a lot of people in the world like face a lot of issues with their own governments like that in retrospect makes our government seem very good but ya I think


uh the events that makes me angry I think recently it's like I think, uh when it comes to like palestine like all the places where a genocide and like or places where occupation is still happening when people are not given their rights that kind of thing you know like in china or all that


uh, ya for some when I think for me I think because maybe like when I was young like I not say I have anger issue I don't really think I have anger issues lah but I think one event that made me very angry it was very stupid and I think is as a kid


you are just very riled up by emotions a lot so I think there was one event for me where it ended up, in a way it made me I was angry at that point and it make me angry with myself that I resorted to such like cause I resorted to like violence that kind of thing where I attacked not say attack lah but like I did something to someone which


like caused them some physical harm and then like we were kids lah we were like primary five and all that so like in a way I will also like, I was very angry at that point but now that looking back I'm angry that I got very angry lah I think like that's not because that's not who you are as in that's not who I am as a person and I think


in a way lah in a way I think like because like you lose but in a way like I'm glad it happened at P five because I think it has framed me like it has frame my, perspective of how I think like I think anger itself is not a very, like I said like I think good anger is like being like


ya I think like, ya as in it make you a more hateful person I think like anger I think anger at like governments all that I think it's still, like because this anger will lead you to want to try to do something but I think like anger in a personal like I think like which leads ya but like personal anger that leads to like it can make you a very abusive person I think it makes you a very


uh like hateful person so I think like one thing that I'm glad okay lah not say I'm glad that it happened but it really form like it, stuck with me throughout even until now lah like I try not to be like I don't know what happened at that point I think like when you let anger take over you it's a very scary thing


and I think now especially now that when you hear cases of like domestic, violence and all that, like you must actively be aware that you are like everyone is prone to being angry obviously but it's what you do with the anger and like how you react when you have the anger when is that


(mmhmm)


right, (mmhmm), right right


(uh huh), (mmhmm)


right, right


ya fair enough fair enough (mmhmm) ya, but I ya I honestly won't any ah ya


(mmhmm), right (mmhmm) true lah


I agree


(mmhmm), ya in fact ya that's the thing as in ya I think looking back I have a lot of events like that also ya ya as in I thinks


(mmhmm), right right


(uh huh), (mmhmm), ya,


(uh huh)


fair enough ya, right right ya


true, I think I agree a lot lah as in for me is like is you get angry at the time where you are unable to fight not say fight back or like even you are unable to defend yourself and unable to even like properly manifest like your thoughts and all that that it will it doesn't


ya I think like that's very I think like because I think I look back lot then like I mean like I wish I did like again lah I said you I don't want to do it but like I wish I did certain things like, but I wish I like said certain things when people were because I think even like it ya even you're talking about like events you talking about events from primary school


ya ya ya ya ya fair enough fair enough, like a teacher like especially like ya definitely lah I think like like a uh ya (mmhmm) ya especially the teacher lah I think like a teacher itself ya (mmhmm)


ya , ya it's supposed to be a safe space it's supposed to be ya definitely like that I think like that's what I think is important like I think in today's world I meant today's society where teachers are also taught


to like to navigate all these things properly like they shouldn't navigate it in a superficial manner where, like you know like I know now like they're trying to inform themselves more about race relations and because I think people are becoming more aware about it, but ya I think like definitely there's a need for teachers to be able to not just navigate around it but to help navigate and guide the conversations about it because I think education is how we are going to be


changing perspectives and I think when you start from young like you said lah you like from primary school already like these things happen and people learn from it people like, take away things from it and then they'll be like oh but this happened before so like it should be okay for these things to happen ya something that definitely upsets me a lot of so lah I mean


because I feel like in a way it upsets me because I think we might not even see the answer in our time or it maybe, but I mean like like it's more about making a better future all that lah but it's like ya like our parents won't get to see the time where I think where we are truly like uh


as in ya as in we are multiracial but like a truly I think a society where everyone is informed and like understands each other as, like and see each other as equal I think that is very I think ya I hopefully we can see that one day lah I think like I think because all these conversations have been popping up quite recently in like I think in singapore especially ya okay I think we've got


, as in I very I was very surprised actually, ya as in very taboo OB markers


, I feel it shouldn't be taboo because I think, under wraps and under ya , ya sinister kind of manner ya fair enough


I agree I agree (mmhmm), it will come to bite you lah ya and it come out worse lah because I think it'd been it it festers this kind of thing it festers and it develops and if you don't like quell it like if you don't quench it then like it will come out in a way that doesn't isn't like I think it will cause I think like


I think like ya like you said uh I think like the future of singapore also a lot of it will be like culture wars where people because I think we uh seeing a more polarised society, so I think like it's important for us to properly navigate through these issues lah and ya I think we I think that wrap things up lah so


ya oh clap do you sorry ya okay ya, so do you want to start with the first point or the, travel uh


oh ya, I think I think for me for me travel is like because travel experiences they left me you know I think for me travel itself is a very, big uh aspect for like in my life I think like even though I have not yet had travelled to a lot of places lah but I've had the opportunity to visit like I think for me is about going to off the beaten off the beaten kind of countries so I've been to like


middle east countries where people would not necessarily go so I've been to like iran I've been to iraq I've been to like but I've also will go to like very popular touristy places ah so like I've been to Dubai also so I think but that's the thing I think for me travel is very like


for each travel experience is very different kind of experience because like if you like okay like if you talking about going to like Dubai it's more like a relaxation is like you are just there to chill like you're there to enjoy like that's why like is a luxurious kind of thing whereas like going to iran and iraq is more like


like I'm there to like feel the like what's different or like for me is the I think the biggest factor for me when traveling I think what the experiences that will really touch, more about the people that you meet because like when you go to all these like touristy places like Dubai right like you don't really get to interact like for me okay one thing also is like when I go to places like Dubai I go with


friends or I go with family or all that so you don't really like you will be interacting mostly around with your family all that obviously because that you traveling with them but then when I go like when I was in iran I was backpacking alone, so like when you backpack alone obviously you are because you are just your own self right you are I thinking you're stepping out of your comfort zone and I think like you are more


open to connecting with new people and I think one, thing I like what travelling off the beaten path because like you see other travellers there right not all of them are like your tourist your normal tourist there who are just there to like enjoy all that most of them are like fellow backpackers and I think the mindset itself is different


so people are more open to having conversations people are more open to like sharing new experiences with each other like so when I was in iran I went to like a few different cities in iran so like I think with every city I got to meet like uh like


different people from different places in the world like people from denmark people from uh france people from like even like vietnam and all that like which is very funny lah because you wouldn't think like in the same way they wouldn't think like a singaporean will be travelling in iran so I think


for me going to all these like off the beaten places is really like one of my it like I like it lah I'm not one who I don't just want to go like to europe or like US or like just the popular place I don't want just go to Paris all that like even if I go to europe I want to go to like


the eastern europe side like the ones that don't get as much uh fanfare you know, perhaps perhaps as in what about you I don't know like what travel


(ppc) correct, (mmhmm)


right, itinerary like trips with itinerary right right right, (mmhmm)


like don't have the freedom like, , (ppc) ya (mmhmm) (mmhmm) definitely lah


(mmhmm), I I uh I I really agree with you lah because I think when I was in iran I think I was there for three weeks backpacking and I only planned for like the first week and even when I say plan it just meant that


I planned where I was going to stay and where like what was like like where I were ya ya like ya of course of course like for me ah other than that like activity wise like for me it's just go as the day I think I can appreciate in a way I can appreciate both, because like I think when you travel alone


because like you are the ones that because okay like when you travel in a group I think the good thing is that let let's say you're free and easy like different people take different times too like they decide on like oh let's do this like different people so like let's say on today I'll be deciding like what's gonna happen


then tomorrow uh another friend whereas where if you are travelling alone it's like you must plan every day yourself so it gets, I think maybe like it does get very tiring in that sense but in a way it's good I I !huh! no as in


ya I , no ya ya, ya ya as in I'm saying like if you're traveling for three weeks lah ya ya ya that's me ah that was me in iran lah because even my


, ya ya ya fair enough fair enough ya , true true ya but ya as in definitely like hopefully like after the COVID pandemic like I'm planning to travel abroad like especially what like once I start working like hope like I'm not planning to get married anytime soon lah so I would definitely want to travel as a young


not sure lah but I think I definitely want to go to europe soon okay not soon but I mean, because I have I have like quite a few friends I have a few friends in europe that I've been meaning to, visit so like like I said like I like I said like when I travel to iran all that so like they've came to singapore like my friends from italy my friends from denmark came to singapore before so like I think like not say like you must return the favour lah but then like they've been expecting me to come over


to like visit them in their home countries since then so like I definitely because I've never touched europe, before like like as in to be fair lah I'm not very interested in, like not super as not as interested as like like let's say going to like south america like I said lah my favourite places are very like it's where like your typical typical singaporean


ya but you have to lah as in but I think south america is just hard because one thing it's very far and I think it's more ex it's the I think one of the more, it's expensive to get there lah I think that's the I think it's cheap it's cheaper to like the stuff there isn't very expensive but I think it's just getting there is very


challenging ya but ya after COVID I ya lah I hopefully there's but the thing is like they've been saying lah like the travel industry might be affected all the way till like twenty twenty four as in I don't know maybe maybe not, but this is (ppc) that's what they say lah okay not say affected but I mean like it will never go back to the same like level of busyness until okay lah until a vaccine comes out


, , but I think the level will be the same lah because you will always be worried about future as in like a pandemic is bound to happen lah you like you just it's just going to be very like people are just gonna be very apprehensive like people won't be as


crazy or all that because I think a lot of people suffered when I think I've had friends whose family were like like I think stuck in certain countries during when COVID hit like when every country started to stop their borders, but I think we we should be talking about positive experiences lah so ya


uh so I think we can move on to I think like move on to another topic ah ya I think let's, uh oh okay let's see I think describe an experience when


uh your faith in mankind was renewed okay I don't know I think it's more about how your person, uh fair enough I think for me is I think I'm a very optimistic person when as much as I appear to be lah I think I'm optimistic about the the human ability for kindness and like


like because okay like as much as I'm very jaded I think I think as you grow older you become more jaded about things like you think that everyone is like oh everyone just is selfish they doing things for yourself but then I think in life there are definitely a lot of people who are just generally like


caring and like kind and all that so I think for me and my, experience when my faith in mankind was renewed I think is, okay lah it's going to be a very cliche thing lah but I think it's just when I lost my wallet or when I lost I lost I lost something and then like basically I expect I didn't expect to get it back


and because I think I think normal I think for me I'm the kind where, to not disappoint myself I place a very like a low expectation of like let's say if I lose something like I don't want to disappoint myself by like keeping to hope that oh hopefully someone will return it like with all the money inside like don't like maybe like hopefully they don't


like use my bank card or whatever but obviously I will cancel it lah but I mean but I think like when people actually like, return it like when you actually find that people return it all that then you are like oh !wow! like people are still good you know and I think it makes you try to want to be a better like to be as good a person like I think cause recently also I found a wallet I think it's like karma kind of thing as in it's like a circle life is like a circle lah


so like I found a wallet also then like I think I think it's just about, like like I don't like just because like it's not so hard to get like so long as you have the address all that right and like assuming it's fairly near you like I think it's not so hard to just go there and give the wallet back I think like


it's all about not say I believe in there's not not karma or whatever lah but I mean like I think life is just like that lah I think the more good things you do the more good things will come to you but I think maybe that's a mindset thing lah, I think because like if you are willing to do good things I think your mindset is that you are more helpful or you have a more like


positive view of life and then in the sense that everything else will also be appearing to be more positive to you I don't know I don't know if that makes sense to you lah but ya I think that is how I feel about it lah, ya but ya lah as in


(ppc), fair enough lah fair enough I wouldn't say loud or whatever lah I mean it's just like say lah it's like what make it like true lah as in you


ya lah of course lah as in I think I think humans are just like that lah as in like maybe they like oh I'm I'm doing a good thing by returning your wallet but let me take your money first I don't know, but ya uh okay


describe your favourite activity I think I don't know like I think we have eight minutes left so I think we you can go with I don't know describe your favourite activity to unwind and relax ya


, ya (mmhmm), because of exams fair enough ya


(mmhmm), like you feel like you not say you wasting time but I mean like like you feel like you should be focusing, , (mmhmm)


(uh huh),


(mmhmm), ya, right right, that's the fair enough I that's the thing about me though I feel like for me netflix is like I don't know why but it doesn't make you relax I feel like because you are so okay I don't know whether


it depends on what you're watching lah because I think if I really want to like not use my brain and all that then I'll watch like those comedies like modern family I'll watch like, community and all that but for me netflix is not very, ya ya ya ya ya ya ya ya


fair enough, but I think you know what's the ironic thing, right right right, oh I've never watch though I feel like I'm very bad with things that have like eight seasons like so many seasons to start so cause it's like so the inertia to start is so


bad but I think is a lot of it's like there's a irony like we were talking about exams and netflix right the irony I feel it's just that like you know like during exam , two oh really ah


like you want more, true and then ya (mmhmm) true, true fair enough fair enough I agree with you for me it's the inertia ah it's just that it's not that I don't like all these series with a lot of episodes it's just that just to start it I'll be like !wah! if I start it then I'll be like I'll have to get into like hundred episodes


but I say it's not impossible lah obviously it happens a lot where like I said the irony is that when it comes to you know like during exam time, then like I'll be like I'll end up watching netflix a lot more but then now like now that I'm on my break it's like I don't even netflix


which is like so ironic even though like even though I have like like like like the, ya is is then


ya ya it's like it's crazy lah I feel like is I feel like it's so ironic you know like but ya I think but I think my favourite activity unwind relax is very is very typical I just driving and then like listening music I think cause I uh ya it it as in it's expensive only if


as in I'm not the one because I'm not paying for the car but I mean like even the gas lah but I mean but ya as in I mean like is is just I think, it gives you as in like that's why I like I think one big reason why I like driving alone because I think like you just listen to music and then you just drive your way back like it's I wouldn't say it's just the driving and like


in, !huh! really ah no for me is really as in you must be if you're talking about driving at twelve AM all that like very no not as much traffic ya


I think it's just it's in a way it's like similar to how like you know like after a long work day like even let's say you take MRT then you are like you take MRT and then you just on the MRT chilling with your own thing like it's just to wind down that kind of, like is that kind of feeling ah it's like after like you trying to separate I think that's the thing now the problem with working from home