yes I think the passive income that's where financial planning is quite important but then I I feel like the passive income also can only work if you're, active income is like solid enough if you are like financially stable then you can like uh like your active income is in a way more than enough than what your than what you need so then you can use that extra income to try


to work on the passive income you know because if you like invest also it sometimes like it might work out but also it might not work out so like if your active income is not enough then like you invest, then a bit, it will be like in a yeah yeah yeah


it'd be harder and like you'd been a more difficult situation lah but yeah, yeah I think passive income is important especially for those people who like got rich, you know like especially those like uh young, like our age kind of people lah then they just like oh it's like if they know about stocks and something then like invest then they like were they actually earn a lot of money from that !wah!


get so jealous so cool, what do you mean higher chances of earning


no ah I have my friend he use his NS money then he invest then he say he lost almost about, ten K eh that's a lot right I don't know whether almost ten oh no no wait he lost almost like one K


from his NS money and that's a lot see, he wanted to passive income like get money for to buy his bike but yeah


err


part three negative experience


do you want to talk about the most heartbreaking moments in your life, isn't that the most heartbreaking no


what do you mean makes me said, moments that made me, I think uh


I feel like everybody surely have moments where they feel that nobody cares about you, but okay so it was this I would say uh it was when I just started university so it was quite a transitioning like phase like from a JC because my JC


life was very like chaotic also like very social in a way so I moved to, uh university then I stayed in hall like a single room hall and then like my friends all also like, uh move to different universities yeah like in JC we were still in the same JC school we were still in the same school but then university we all uh in different school ah all of us none of us are in the same university


and then cause of that then when you just first join a school also you for like I had no friends in a way like no close friends, yeah so and then like uh my friends all also very, busy and then like we rarely talk


yeah we didn't we rarely talk and we didn't have time to always go out together and then like that err like when I just started university also, I was going through a a phase I was kay not a phase but I was taking my license and then as you all know as in know my license was a very difficult journey because like I failed


a few times yeah so when I failed for like the third time or something uh I was really sad cause I felt like uh none of my friends were there for me in a way you know how friends like they always say like they are there for you there for you and stuff yeah but


so I failed my license like the third time and I was really really sad like, really the uh super sad lah technically but then like I couldn't approach any of my friends like I couldn't inform them or talk to them about it you know cause I felt like they were all so busy and like they wouldn't have time to to comfort me like they wouldn't have time to


talk to me lah that kind yeah cause like uh I feel like if I were to talk to them I the things that I'm going to talk to them have to be very like substantial and important to take their time away you know, yeah that's how precious their time is lah so because of that then I felt so alone and yeah I just I felt like nobody care about me cause nobody also


approach me you know, even though like yeah like I didn't approach them cause I didn't want to, feel like a burden to take their time away but at the same time the fact that none of them approach me yeah so I felt like nobody care about me, yeah what about you (uh huh)


(uh huh)


(mmhmm)


(uh huh), so you were sad about your NS thing but you weren't that sad about your injury


or were sad about your injury also, oh, (uh huh)


oh, yeah,


, okay err do you have any hurtful words that someone said to you that you wish to forget


why, why why he say he going, (uh huh)


yup, ya, ah


oh, , yeah


I wouldn't say it's that okay honestly I don't remember, like this kind of stuff like, I'll probably remember like uh when they say the moments where you felt hurt and sad but I probably don't remember the words


the yeah lah the words that they said but I'll say one thing is like or as in one example was like in primary school I didn't know but there was just this you know when you're just, growing up you don't even know what kind of person you are you know that kind of stuff


and then there was just this guy he like said to me something like you should be more girl or something like that, then I was just like what is that supposed to mean then yeah he was like saying how I was like


I don't know like tomboyish in a way then he was like saying I should, be more girl whatever then I was just like !wow! !ouch! yeah I don't know just 'member that from like primary school, cause like you are growing up like when you're kid you're probably growing up and you don't even know what


uh what sort of person what, yeah but yeah, I don't remember much hurtful words, oh but okay what is one thing that you will you will never joke about


(uh huh) (uh huh)


I would say err like death you know, I would say death is something you should never joke about because it's like, uh I don't know like sometimes you see on videos then like some people would be saying like


jokes about death you know like your, I don't know okay not really jokes but also like just like as a remark you know that kind of stuff like as a joking remark, that they will just make fun ah something like that or like, if they late or something then they say oh they have another excuse like their something something died or something but it's not real it's like just a prank or something


ya so I would say, uh joking orl ike pranking about death, it's not something that I would I would understand or like yeah I would joke about, because i feel like there are, people I don't know I just feel that


uh it's a very like it's a very sad thing and it's a thing where you really cannot undo it in a way, you know yeah so is, okay it's not only that you cannot undo it but you cannot go anything you cannot move on from it like in the person


uh, pass away and then like, yeah, yeah so like also like if uh, like so many other people, uh facing that like for me got a lot of other people going through grief or something cause of their loved ones


passed away then like, if you were to see somebody like make fun of it or joke about it yeah I'll say that's just, not something you should joke about, yeah, but yeah death, has any what magnus [orh] err


I'll say yeah death also honestly okay but that one is, I wouldn't say that, it will never happen but then at the same time like, that's that's that's the thing it's like it will happen, so it's a nightmare where


we just like uh, yeah lah it's a nightmare where you feel so sad about it, but then you know one day it will happen kay basically it was just a nightmare, where my mom passed away I think yeah


I forgot how how she died but yeah something like that, so I just woke up I remember I just remember I woke up crying and then like searching for my mom, and then like, I was just so relief and happy to see her there you know


like I was so really very happy that I cried again when I saw her, after that nightmare, yea I forgot I forgot what, uh how, how it was in the dream but then like, even though I saw her like there


then it made me feel very relieved to see, yet I still felt the bitterness or I don't know I don't know whether it's called bitterness ah but I still felt that sorrow and sadness cause I knew that


yeah like one day she will she will leave, sad nightmare that I hope will never happen but, I guess can really nanny ya (uh huh)


yeah, right


uh for all of our loved ones I guess, yeah, like me and my friend we were talking about it also then we were just like !wow! we are so like me and my best friend lah we are we were talking about it then we realise


we are so like uh integrated into our life like uh deeply such a major part in our life that, we couldn't imagine what it would be if they weren't there anymore you know like suddenly they weren't there yeah


like, uh every little thing, would probably make us feel sad you know, yeah (ugh) okay, err


do you have a time when you felt like you were giving up


same kay continue


(mmhmm)


(mmhmm) (mmhmm), (mmhmm)


(mmhmm), would you is that like a okay continue, (mmhmm)


yeah


positive part two positive experience


winning winning what


!wow! , (uh huh)


uh I wouldn't say hobby but like, okay lah uh I think the winning I can relate also in a way but probably not as for me I'm not as a good in sports activity as much when I was younger but maybe


uh in terms of education maybe I don't know you know like they studies then usually every year to confirm like primary school or secondary school they will have like those the award the edusave eh not edusave uh but like you know they just state the top in the


level yeah yeah the the top in their level for that subject or something for secondary one I got like top for home economics , home economics eh then I literally had to take the cert and then like !wah!, top in home economics yeah but yeah I think that one was like really satisfying like I felt happy


(hmm), no I think I like baking since even before home economics I guess, that's why for me my home economics was good you know like I was like everybody like usually like I I remember like students like go home econs then they just like chill chill like that's their you know like relax subject and then like I was excited like I was a kid


that was excited for home economies then like very participative you know like very on then the teacher ask question then I'm like !woo! I know I know cause like I I was interested in it lah so I like research about it, so like I'm more like prepared for the lesson that kind of stuff yeah but it was fun


, uh, then what is your what would you say your happiest moment in your life


winning ah , (uh huh)


oh, (uh huh), (mmhmm) (mmhmm)


yeah eh (uh huh), (mmhmm) oh


so you felt that when you got accepted into NTU ah, oh me uh, I wouldn't say my, is it like the A levels JC, was that


was that err satisfying but I'll say, err O levels maybe like, okay cause I remember like I stayed back in school like alone to study all like literally like, err cause I took like triple science so I was like


low key struggling a bit lah then like I would stay back in school to study and really like, err try my best lah buck up you know cause like I was in the first class also then like all the other students were like very smart like legit very smart so I thought I was like uh behind you know like I was uh considered like struggling lah in a way like my results are bad as compared to them


so I really study study hard and then my O levels I did like, uh very well like you got the you know when they like give the those people where they have to stand and take the the award yeah that was, may no lah not first in class lah but the you know O level then they got like the seven distinction whatever then they say the names


then you have to stand yeah yeah so I would that was one of the happiest moments in my life, cause after O levels year then uh the JC all I was never that good, anymore uni also so that was the peak of the education after that all the results


all the results went pretty I wouldn't say went pretty bad but it is very hard to be that good, as compared to all the others also you know get what I mean like now we are just average is very hard to be like better than average, yeah so that was one of the happiest moment of my life


yeah I was going to say !whoa! now that I think about it so sad [orh] I say all about, academically related, non academically related I'll say uh my JC when I was in the soccer


and then like uh I wouldn't, say like we, okay it wasn't okay the final was quite like I was quite happy about the finals like we got second but then like before the finals there was this like match I forgot what is it called is it called of qualifying match lah or something so this match like determines whether we make it whether we made it


to the quarters or not lah it was like that important that match and then uh we were really struggling, okay I don't know whether, okay okay we were it was like really hot it was like the three PM match and then it was on the field and then it was really hot and then like everybody was really dying already and it was that match that I I really put in but then I got injured I I banged on


those I banged into some another girl and then like uh my head got uh cut like a bit cut, so I had to


but then uh after that then my team won that match though so like I felt very happy even though I mean I played for three quarter of it lah so that was good enough but then uh the fact that my team won for that match and then we made it, to the quarters yeah it was one of the happiest moments also like really like !whoa! like


it was so close cause we we trained so much for it you know like every saturday all it's like it was like four days per week training yeah so that so we really like, we won by like one score only so I don't know it's like


near miss but at the same time like , it was the happiest moment I guess, non academically related, yeah, okay (uh huh), (mmhmm) yes


uh


yeah, yeah yeah yeah


(mmhmm), (mmhmm)


yeah (mmhmm)


(uh huh)


yes (mmhmm), yeah


(mmhmm)


, (hmm) (mmhmm)


(mmhmm), yeah , , yeah ya


sure, uh, okay what about people, who are the people you most cherish in your life


family , hor, (uh huh) yeah (mmhmm)


(mmhmm), , (uh huh) yeah (uh huh)


(uh huh) oh


that that's nice, yeah, uh I'll say people I most cherish would be my secondary school friends like my the close group of friends like we've been friends since secondary one


and we are still close friends up till now I would say my family is also obviously my cherish eh most cherished people in my life but, I would say my friends, are more integrated in my life in a way they are more updated and like if I have problems and stuff I'll tell my friends so


uh since secondary school we've been together so I feel like the fact that uh we are secondary school friends we see each other growing up you know like we see each other uh, becoming better versions of our past


like we also we also like to like give I wouldn't say give reflection but give each other like, uh feedbacks in a way like uh feedbacks, to to make them to make us like grow more together you know so cause I feel like


we are like secondary school we are more of a very uh immature childish very, drama that kind of stuff lah but then like we we communicate along with each other then we talk a lot so we because of that we like see life in a more


like we see life differently as compared to like we were in secondary school, so that's why now then we are all like uh getting out of our comfort zone taking up more responsibilities then like are more busy in our life but I would even despite that


even how we're not as like we don't spend as much time together now as compared to last time I'll say they are my most cherished people my life and uh, I really like very thankful for them because of them we like really see life in a more


optimistic light I guess, like see life as a more an adventure thing rather than like you're obliged to live life in a way, open minded yeah, hence I cherish them a lot, and of course I cherish my family that one


but okay lah I'm not that very personal with my family I wouldn't say like they are very integrated into my life and, like tell me advices a lot yeah I don't really talk to them about my life advices and stuff, yup uh (uh huh)


honestly I would say we have a lot of inside jokes but like , it's very hard ah to suddenly think about it now but, uh, I will say is more of uh funny moments like in our life cause we spend a lot of time together so it's more of funny moments but like there was this it's not an inside joke ah but there was just this funny moment we went like Raya together then we were in a bus not walking I don't know why it's so funny


but like just the situation it was damn, it was just very uh funny, so we end up Raya then like we it was the growing up phase lah so we all like excited we like first time wear heels you know that kind of stuff so we all wear heels and then we took a bus and then like it was the holding the bus like we had we had to stand so we had to hold the bus yeah


bus handle lah something like that, then suddenly like we were like in lah okay like holding the handle standing up then we were like making noise lah but not that much noise lah but then suddenly the bus like brake, like quite emergency brake then all of us literally like you know like fall you know like how when they brake then the people fall yeah like we literally all like domino each either and like


fell you know like yeah , not on the ground like the last person like, hold the railing at the door you know the exit door yeah so we just like literally move back together, yeah it's it was very funny cause like we were literally like uh


excited, about wearing heels and stuff then like, yeah yeah then the last person like who held the railing right she was wearing heels also then like you know like heels then you fell then like your heels your heels like, how to say ah like fall ah yeah so it was just very funny but until now if talk about it we all like LOL we all just laugh


but yeah, honestly its a inside joke but it was just a funny funny moment, yeah funny moment (ppc)


part one finance,


for me my personal finances I think first of all is the income lah like the where your money come from, for me I don't really want to like disturb my parents for like my expenditures all so I decided to like


work ah work for work and earn money for myself so like currently I am doing tuition so that's where my income is from right now, and, yeah cause I know that I'm riding a motorbike and I will need money for fuel also and I have to ensure that I have enough money for food fuel like transportation and all yeah


oh yeah I just make sure that the like I earn enough ah for myself every month, ah


uh initially when I started out I didn't have much like , didn't get much income ah so it's like I started out with like just like two hundred fifty a month and then that's actually not enough


so is like initially I started off with that and I just spent everything but then after that I managed to get more teaching opportunities and get increase my income ah so right now I'm able to like save some no not now lah but


before the COVID situation I was able to save up then after that because of COVID uh many of my tuition slots like got cancelled and all so now I'm just, surviving just like that how about you,


I save in the beginning, like cause yeah then also cause like there's this it was during NS ah during NS like there was this like savings plan for my POSB account like my bank account


so it's like they offered you they help you like do the setting aside the money to a like sub account, so it's like every month on a certain date I will just set aside some money to put into that sub account like for the savings and then also there will be like some interest ah which is not bad lah i feel


yeah, I think this savings actually just for like uh rainy days ah what do you call that like those emergency time


but sometimes, for me I consider like need the need for food as emergency ah so sometimes I will just like if I really need like very hungry then I will like touch on that savings a bit but other than that I don't touch on it


yeah I think so, and also every month you'd be using your savings to spend on those big expenditure


oh


for me like those big expenditure I will include it in like my non savings, the so that like it'll be already part of my like plan expenses


so the savings is really just for emergencies, so it's like I know I wanna get I wanna get driving license I'll make sure that part of my expenses I set aside those money for for the driving license but if I don't have then I will see my priorities ah like


like yeah for me right now my I want to get like a driving license but I don't really have the time so I'm not really setting aside, much money for the driving license


for me I think , it will be to prioritise prioritise my spendings properly lah and really keep track of what I spend cause like sometimes I think lah I overspend on food


so it's like I feel like I'm hungry like just a bit hungry right I will just like spend on something yeah but I consider that as like as my welfare ah like if I don't feed myself then I won't be happy you know


how about you, yeah, uh not really currently my tuition I earn more than when I


have I was in NS, yeah cause I had an injury ah so it cost me to like, like I I cannot get like the the those typical NS jobs mine was like I had to do office work because its office work there's less like there's no risk or something like that


and then I cannot be promoted faster cause yeah so it's like I earn less and then because of that and I was also like in NS I was like working like somewhere in the uh city area right so city area like the foods there are expensive ah


and I have to buy the meals for myself, and the main allowance that I get is just like hundred a month which is like not enough lah so I have to like splurge a bit on like the not meal allowance income that one


yeah and then like during NS I also like wanted to like feeling feeling spend for myself like that lah so it's like cause I didn't have enough income and then I already like spent quite a lot on food and then after that I went to join like some


some gym membership and it costed me like hundred plus a a month so like I calculated back lah like that hundred plus a month I paid for it for like one year, and like if because in my NS there was like free gym you know like they provided a gym at the workplace so it's like if I didn't spend on that hundred plus I could have like saved up


those amounts like for myself ah so it was kind of a waste and I fell for like all those advertisements that's why it was because of the sales promoter they were like , ya you wanna join a gym then I was thinking like okay lah I can join gym try to be fit and all


but because of that I learned to like think about what I get myself into properly and, don't just follow what sales what sales adviser what sales promoter yeah what about you


did you like do anything like that you regret about your finances


(hmm)


right so it's like you didn't really know anything anything as a parent you should like to your children ah


, actually my my mum did lah give me some advice to like just save like one day put in one dollar into piggybank like I think that's


that's like the only advices that I got and then I didn't really do it lah so it's like , cause I felt like there was not much reasoning like it wasn't explained to me how it works and like why it would work in my life


like cause I was still just a student like I'm only earning like getting allowances from my parents lah so like I didn't really see the importance in it because I didn't get any proper explanation


so I feel like as a parent like you should at least, give like more detailed detailed reasons of why you should save and what are the ways that you can save and like


explain also ah in details like at least more than just like telling you to eh you should just you should save up for rainy days, yeah and at least like teach us about how you can plan your budget


like budgeting wise like set aside how much I think that would be a good thing as a parent to do like if not, like at least what they can offer lah cause as a child like you might not have the exposure or like you don't really know that you could have like gone to like some financial advisor or what and you can google it up maybe now you can google lah but


I don't think children will care about googling until they are like quite old and like when it really matters then they will just start thinking about it but then by then it might be too late


yeah I do ah yeah, is on a monthly basis lah like based on my income so I set aside some money


, but I remember like I had this talk with one of my friends ah it's about different type of income like there's two one is


active income and one is passive income so you know the difference between how like people get rich, versus the people who are like mediocre like normal average is that one is they get passive income and the average people they just work on active so passive it means like you don't have to do much but you're still earning


rso that's where like stocks come in an all and I was interested lah, but then like I didn't like have that incentive to to research about all these things until like lately where, I realise how important like passive income is to to feel happy lah like and not just like


work and work and work and you don't get like the profit something like that, yeah


you get worse off ah that's quite true


I'm sure there are like those are there like those passive incomes that you have a higher chances of earning, I'm sure there are right , like it's not that risky so it's like if you just start off small


yeah (hmm)


, okay


, part three negative experience


we slowly slowly build up ah okay


where where you feel the like sad like the other things that makes you sad sad like


like for example something that makes you feel like you're not being heard or like you feel like people don't care about you


the moment I felt sad was like, I had an injury like it was during JC year during JC like I was part of a floorball team then where, I joined like the A divisions ah so it's like during the A divisions there was a moment where like I got tackled then I fell down and because of that I was injured and I didn't know that I was injured until like


about I think one year later or something, then after that because of that my NS I was initially PES A just like a healthy fit fit PES status like health status ah


then because of the injury I dropped to like PES C like because of that I couldn't like be be like a normal typical NSF ah and then it's like, I was actually quite excited like to be in NS ah actually honestly because like you get to be like they'll make you be healthy like fit and all so it's like I was like excited for that but then because of that I couldn't you know and then like during trainings it was just like


didn't do physical exercises with you like other teams will be other squads they'll be like jogging in the morning but my squad will be doing brisk walking so like we'll just walk


walk around the stadium is like boring ah it's like I felt like I could have done I could have been like I felt lah like if I was like still in PES A, I could have I could have like


show my potential and like make myself proud lah like I know I can do this like if others can do it I can be too but then because of the injury, I couldn't you know it's like I was like setback and I couldn't do anything yeah


at that moment oh yeah at that moment my injury I was sad about my NS but also at that moment like when I got the injury it was super painful because it was a ACL tear


and like we were playing for the A divisions like, I was just like trying to win for my team right my school my friends but then because of that I had to like sit down on the bench like halfway through the match and like I couldn't like help them ah and we were like losing ah so it's like


during the match I just sit down in pain I tried to like Tahan the pain but I couldn't and like I think I started crying yeah, hurtful words ah


ah, , I think one hurtful word it's like


last time lah last time like when I was young and innocent my father I don't know why ah but like he said to me before like, not said to me before like he usually like says there was one time lah he said like he's going to die


then I was like I don't know, like he because he want he wanted me to like massage him or something like he then he say like he going to die and all I don't know why but he just say he's going to die then like I just like went down like went to one corner in my house and I started crying


cause like my father like you know it's my father right you wouldn't want your father to die what, so it's like and then your father said that he's going to die, I wish he didn't say that to me lah cause like it make me feel sad you know like


like made me think of the possibility that like he's going to die, like as a child like a primary school kid yeah and I didn't like tell anyone about it lah cause like I didn't want them to worry


(ppc)


one thing is never joke about is like my, my religion ah


it's like religion is something serious ah so like, I don't know like sometimes people joke about religion, it's a bit sensitive sensitive stuff you know so it's like whenever they talk about some jokes I won't really comment much I'll just like smile give some sort of like okay reaction


like other than that I don't think I don't joke about anything else I'm not sure cause I don't like do specific jokes like I don't know never really thought about it, but what I know is like religion lah I don't I don't joke about religion lah it's quite serious topic and sensitive


you do you have anything that you don't joke about


have you have like any nightmare that you hope will never happen in real life


nightmares nightmare nightmare, Mimpi Buruk


I think I had a similar experience ah it's like like but instead of my mum it was my grandmother


and then like yeah I don't know why like I remember like I was crying like when I wake up like had, tears tears running down my like cheeks then it's like the fact that she's already old and then like I cherish her a lot then like


it makes it more like a real like it's gonna happen soon and like you don't know when but it will lah and, what I couldn't I couldn't believe that I like woke up crying lah cause it was just a dream what yeah so it's quite sad like very sad like cannot imagine how it'd feel like if like it really


happen lah I don't want to imagine ah actually


yeah, kind of also it's like in uni


because like uh it's hard lah it's like studying studying is just hard ah, initially it was okay lah like in year one and then it's like


I felt like everything was okay I can still understand even I didn't even though I didn't put much effort but then after that when I go to year two it's like, everything got like so much harder and you need the content from year one to continue and then because in year one I didn't really put in that much effort so I my understanding is not really there yet


and it's like everything is so fast paced and I joined so many stuff like I joined many ad hoc events, then I joined all these CCAs and then it was a bit too much for me ah


and it's like I was also lagging behind in my studies so it it was super hard and didn't really know what to do, except to just push on but I was very close to giving up because I couldn't really take it


yeah but fortunately for me was that I, COVID happen ah, so it's like, uh I guess it's a blessing but I was really like quite close to giving up


like cause I really didn't know what to do ah like how to how to get my my life together, yeah cause study so hard and then there were lots of meetings and like trainings


everything like there was also work which I had to juggle so it's like not much time for me to to to to divide ah yeah


oh part part part, part two positive experience


uh for me activity that I felt happiest was winning ah , yeah cause like I as a child I was quite competitive and I was proud of whatever I do ah


so I would just put in the best effort that I can to like make myself happy ah like feel satisfied with what I've done you know like make myself feel proud so if like I play soccer if like we win I'll be very happy


and like especially last time in, primary school you know when you have this sports day and you like have, to run so it's like I was like one of the fastest runner you know in my class yeah so it's like


what I felt happiest was winning ah I felt like I was on top of the world you know what about you you got hobby or not or something


the, top cohort lah (uh huh),


was that was that when you started like liking loving baking cause that's your hobby right, (uh huh)


in my life ah uh, not so sure there's quite quite a few happiest moment happy moments in my life


that I can remember but I think, oh I think I know one of the happiest moments ah was when I I saw the, acceptance email ah from NTU from my school university school so it's like I didn't I couldn't believe that I got I got accepted into the university because I


thought that the competition was quite quite out there and I wasn't really, better than average I was probably like lower than average or something but somehow I managed to get into uni and I was quite happy with that lah like surprisingly happy and pleased and like thankful cause in


JC was like quite hard for me, cause it's like very hard like studying I don't think it's my thing but I had passion ah to like you get what I mean it's like you have passion but it's hard but you wanna do it you know


yeah so it was quite fulfilling when I felt like the efforts I put into something that was hard somehow it was like worth it lah like came to fruitation ah, ah, you leh


yeah


first in class ah,


(ppc),


what about those like non academically related do you have any, yeah I know right


, for me I have I just thought of one ah like non academically related which is actually quite recent and it was like a performance because you know I'm in like #dikir barat# right


in uni so like I've never really like performed as part of that performance before a #dikir barat# performance and, like it was I think was last year last year was the first time that I like join and Apa join join for the competition the annual yearly uh #dikir barat# competition so it's like


during the performance it was very nice lah cause we trained for like, like one month like of quite intensive training like almost every day there was training in school so it's like


we train to like for the competition and it was my first time and we did quite good like we managed to like surprise like all our like friends or competitors competitors like


cause they didn't really expect much from a university team you know cause our competitors like are the tertiary schools like the polytechnics and ITEs and like they have, they're those schools like they're known to like have committed people ah people who like willing who are willing to commit time and effort for their CCAs


but then in uni is very much different like there's not much people who are like, willing to commit their time for CCAs and some more this is like something like cultural like cultural performance and it needs it requires passion for people to like want to like perform you know so it's like


that was also one of the reason why I was like happy because, like as I grow older I'm actually quite active in like this cultural stuff like malay cultural stuff so it's like as I get as I grow older like, the pool of people who are interested in this kind of stuff like it decline like gets smaller and smaller so it's like even in universities like there's not much especially the guys team for the #dikir barat# so it's like


for the first time I managed to like, be part of something where there's really like sixteen people who are like so passionate about this cultural performance and we give it our all in the competition and then I felt very honoured ah and like we were so happy that we did good and we impress like


everyone at that that how good that we were and like given that we didn't, put in as much we didn't have, uh as much trainings as the other schools or teams just like I was very happy ah cause I was able to be part of something like that cultural performance ah which I actually have been wanting to join but I didn't get any opportunity


actually I was quite happy when and then it turned out that we got fourth place like out of like fourteen ah like fourteen teams yeah yeah I think eight eight teams ah don't know ah like we got fourth like we were just like one step closer


to getting a third third place which was, very good already like you get the medal you know the trophy and like but fourth you don't get anything but even so I was like very happy ah


people that I most cherish ah I would say my , grandmother ah grandmother grandmother because especially my grandmother ah cause since young okay I I grew up in a family of like seven siblings so it's like my family there's this age gap you know


so it's like when I was like sixteen my sister my elder sister was like two times older than me I could be part of the maths maths problem you know like two times older so it's like when I was young no when I was when my sisters were young like my parents like


gave lots of attentions like to my siblings but then as they produce more children kid that was me so they had to like work, work like both my parents have to work so they didn't have much time for for me and my like my friend my friends lah my family my brothers lah and then it's like my my grandmother was one who took care of us like since we were young so it's like she


cook us food like feed us food yeah so it's like I very I cherish her a lot lah, yeah it's like and she's already like very old she's like ninety two years old this year so it's like even though she was she was like willing to like take care of us like


yeah eh, I cannot imagine the day like cause she's old like okay never mind what about you


okay since you've been like with your friends for like very long time right do you guys have like an inside joke , that that you guys laugh about like until today


on the ground


moment ah okay


part one finance, eh babe do you have any saving account


oh ya I was saying do you have any saving accounts, okay so from which bank ah babe you you use this saving account, !wow! that's a lot of account why why


why why you use two uh like you know why you choose to use uh three bank two bank accounts to, do saving, oh two is it standard and POSB ya, oh okay sorry I have only one POSB


ya my ya, [orh] so you want it to be separated between expenses and also saving


correct so so for your saving right uh O under OCBC am I right, uh okay


alright so to try and save uh which account did you use for is it POSB or OCBC, POSB so do you have any card ATM card with you for the POSB, okay because you said uh you said is for saving right so as and when you actually uh will take out


uh money from that saving account as well right when you need it, okay so you know right err some of the POSB account right, they have this uh, fixed account saving deposit saving right


like you have to you have to put err, uh a fixed monthly account that you cannot take out, ah ya is it current account, oh, oh okay that is under DBS right, which they are merging together POSB and DBS are together right


as for me I only have err POSB but I have a few different account in POSB, err because err I segregate all my my my payment and you know I have


my saving account, then my children the three uh three childrens the their what is it call baby bonus is it ya baby bonus account is also under mine, my my POSB account, and I, yes the joint account with my son I open another joint account for my son and


I also open another DBS account, uh it's also a saving account, ya so I have this different account, uh it's a debit card ya


so it's a debit card err I I never, own any credit card before so have you ever own any credit card before, you used to own !wow! so what what why why used to


what happened (mmhmm)


on time oh okay alright so uh did you have any, err you know, uh outstanding amount with your credit card, ya oh okay so uh how much was uh outstanding ~mount amount like you the ranges of outstanding amount


ya, ya ya ya ya, uh hold on uh how uh should I mute yeah should I mute, ya hold on ah my my husband is vacuuming, so I'm going to tell him ya


can can can I talk to him right now, ya okay, okay ah alright, ya and don't vacuum ah thank you


he will vacuum ten times a day lah ya alright, no no, ya okay so so sorry ah alright so was was saying just now, err about credit card right


ya because I was also thinking of taking credit card, yeah I was actually I was discussing with my uh assistant teacher just now you know uh about credit card she had two credit card before


but now she actually err, uh, already terminate the both credit card, and only have her husband credit card which is uh she said as uh emergency only, alright so why, I ask her why did you terminate your credit card that you use last time she said even like it is very dangerous because you keep spending on it


even though you know that you are out of budget is it something like that, yeah


but I want to understand like my friend said that uh she actually used one of the credit card for emergency use right uh so like she never spend really spend on it but we still have to pay right like, monthly without the interest lah since you never use the


credit card, oh the yearly, ah oh


ah okay, now I uh now I actually know thank you for the information, alright so , for me I also have some saving at home, yeah


unauthorised unauthorised uh, oh, oh yeah because nowadays uh there's a lot of scamming going on from the internet and you know


I mean uh I'm quite scared as well because like, I am afraid to put big amount uh of uh money inside the bank, as now there are hackers who can hack through you know all this technology, and password and that's why they always make us aware that we shouldn't give our password or emails or you know all the pins to to anybody at all even to our spouses in fact


right ya, okay do you have any I I have never gotten any loan from bank have you ever have any experience uh getting loan from bank, (mmhmm) (mmhmm) (mmhmm) like


ya do you mind me asking uh why why you actually didn't get the approval for the home loan that you applied, oh


oh so there is a criteria of uh the I mean minimum minimum salary that you can actually apply if you want to apply for the loan alright, okay because I'm getting my house in uh you know in a few months time right, ya, I was thinking of you know these two choices either I wanna get the HDB loan or the you know


bank the bank loan ya, yeah (mmhmm) yeah yeah I


I only have with my children, uh no because I I for me the saving that I have with my husband we actually don't put it in banks because you know nowadays uh a lot of scamming right so I I'm so scared if I put the


that amount of money inside the bank, so I I for our savings like what I have with my husband with my spouse I will only put it uh at home inside a safe box, for my kids my kids I put it inside their own uh bank account


like with with together with his joint account with me, (mmhmm) yeah


ya actually ya I mean I I prefer my husband to have, you know his own set of saving and my set of saving as well ya and my children to have their own set as saving you know so like okay uh you have uh, uh a teenager kids right, okay mine is going to twelve uh for for Ahbang


Ahbang is going to twelve years old so I'm thinking uh what, age do you think is the met best age for them to actually hold a you know ATM card


oh for for the ATM ah, (mmhmm) (mmhmm)


oh okay so like right now I have a joint account with my son right so when when err he's reach sixteen the bank will give me a letter is it to say that, ah okay to make his own, uh card right to the ATM card


alright so has what your experience as a mother who has a teenager who already have an ATM card, do you think is appropriate for them to have, that at that age (ppc) sorry


because because you know uh like sometime the children nowadays they are always buying things roblox lah you know all these all these online and they actually sometime err in my google account I have my debit number right , my son and in fact sometimes spend on roblox you know without my knowledge


ya it's so yeah so it's easily accessible my daughter also did that and uh she did a subscription you know on uh on an app, so without my knowledge so is is a bit difficult right uh to keep track right when they have this, card right


so like like like do you set a, a target right oh you have to have this saving every month inside your account, there's no target, ya is how they manage their own, their own ya, so ya back to credit card ah


because you have taken a credit card before right, so uh what kind of credit did you use is it the cashback or points or miles, or (mmhmm)


[orh] okay, ah okay, (mmhmm)


so that one with the points uh miles if I'm not wrong I heard from some of my friend is like for krisflyer where you can actually earn uh points and then you will get you know at certain point you can actually accumulate as a free free you know ride you know that kind of thing right


yes correct so also you don't have that like uh on diners right, okay so (mmhmm), uh no I haven't uh


I I did go to the bank they asked me about they actually introduce me to some of their insurance because right now I have err, insurance on myself as well but it's under hospitalisation insurance, which is not under the bank how about you have uh did you go for any insurance that was introduced by the bank


(mmhmm) (mmhmm)


!wow! that that is very cheap actually ya nine dollars ninety cents, what is the (mmhmm) sorry what is the coverage, oh okay


I think I should consider that as well ah, (mmhmm) (mmhmm) oh


so I think the POSB sometime when they they will have a few few promotion about insurance because when whenever I go down ya, ya when I go down to the POSB counter sometime want to take out money right to withdraw right, uh they will actually talk about insurance and other other other things that they have like like uh saving account like the fixed deposit account


yeah, I think if we go there like you said maybe they collaborate with another you know another company ya, ya true


quite risky because they are private bank right, yeah, ya so that's why with this uh with this uh scamming and all that thing I think most people felt that putting money in the bank itself is very uh what is it called you know like is very unsafe


uh in fact I'm one of them as well you see, like I I put certain amount but not, not not not not more than that amount to be in the bank, ya so I find that, (mmhmm)


ya the details of all your, all your you know your bank details right, like recently recently I had a message from uh, someone uh from online from like Facebook right messaging me can you give me your uh phone number


you know nowadays when we do the ibanking right is we use our phone number or either our phone number or email, yes, phone number and also they will said oh uh it will be some some pin will be emailed to your mail can I have your email you know that kind of thing so this is the thing that we have to look out whenever you know when someone ask you for details especially your phone number


or your email recently actually in fact I called POSB about this scam thing right because someone actually I I gave out my, uh my account number and my phone number to a person, yes to a person who uh, who wanted to buy something lah you know so and then then when he asked me for my


email details that's when I find it very fishy, you know like eh why why why do you want my emails detail you know my email you don't need my email right, if you have a paynow she claimed that he's a Singaporean, so so when I I'd said okay hold on I'm gonna ask my bank so I actually call up the bank


if you give out your uh bank detail and also your phone number they can't still access it but if you like give like you know the full detail of your email or when they said okay now can you send me the pin I already transferred to you you send me the pin number from your email then you know


that that is when the they can actually access to your whole bank detail, ya, so it it is the best not to when people ask for your email detail or your you know all the details of your bank it is the best not to give them at all


(mmhmm) it seem, it seems very convenience right it very convenience ya, ya true


and like you say like like what what I experience like my son or daughter when they are on their phone it on my google account , they can actually like just click and purchase you know, yeah, ya ya actually yes but some of the setting I can change into prompt with password


but the problem is my son knows my password sometimes, ya my password, uh he knows so he when when when you know sometime when they say oh mom I'm sorry I just I don't know I accidentally like you know then but the thing is already spent, it's very difficult to get it back


you have to like uh message the developer and everything, yeah yeah, that's why so now uh what I do is I I try not to use the uh, my other bank uh the bank consultant actually advise me to put zero dollars for my debit card


only uh on it back whenever I want to use it myself, yeah, like you do the setting when err, uh about online setting is zero dollar, and then after that, you can uh you know bring it back to how many dollars that you want


part three negative experiences


oh yes I got a call from <P2>darnish</P2> uh uh school, his teacher, uh was calling me telling me that <P2>darnish</P2> uh had to stay back after after his uh we were talking about his what is it called what he had is now PSLE listening compre right


so uh, uh it was err some one of the friend mom, actually uh complain uh not complain lah err, send the teacher feedback to the teacher that these guys these kids they have a chat group


whatsapp chat group, so and then they err they have some bullying bullying is it bullying incident going on inside that chat group, body shaming, you know and a lot of foul words err being you know


being send here and there you know teenagers right they are adolescent right, so I know my I know <P2>anaki</P2> is sometimes quite foul you know they you know it's like you know for them is nothing, but maybe when the parent but now the friend in fact the effect on the the guy the the friend


he's starting to talk about suicidal, because of this you know bully incident that's what the mom said to the teacher so it becomes very serious but uh I ask her when did uh the mother actually you know uh tell you


uh, like complain to you lah you know then she said like, a few days ago yesterday yesterday yesterday so in fact <P2>darnish</P2> phone was down from last saturday from last friday he cannot on his phone anymore so I told her uh can I know when


when is the exact date lah you know because if she said yesterday but then she said a few months ago this incident is a few months ago why didn't she for me lah as highlighted this like a few months ago or maybe this guy, is someone who kept inside his heart


and then maybe he wanted to commit suicide, like right now I don't know, you know it's quite serious lah because when you talk about suicide, when a kid talk about suicide of course the parent will be you know, worry and and I I as a parents I'm worry but but the thing is <P2>anaki</P2> is uh <P2>darnish</P2> is not in the whatsapp group from friday


because of his phone wasn't, err working anymore, but the teacher said that men did mention to me that <P2>darnish</P2> uh in school, sometime he will you know , talk talk, with the friend you know body shaming as as well lah


eh not not not body shaming lah he will be like when this <P2>kyle</P2> uh when this person this friend say , uh your father lah you know your father lah then <P2>darnish</P2> will say your grandmother lah you know that kind of thing you know they you know how children right, they retaliate each other with words which is hurtful hurtful words or very uh negative words


ya so the teacher actually told me that just now after school he had to go to uh the principal office to talk to the vice principal to the discipline master and everyone but, they already identified the culprit, who did err


the bully inside the chat group which is not uh luckily is not <P2>darnish</P2> lah you know if not I have to have a real real, talk with him in fact I think I should have a real talk with him about this bully thing lah you know, because they know as an adolescent they know that inside the video youtube video how many people how many teenagers in US actually kill themself because of that only negative negative were you to say something negative to a person


it will affect their life, ya so I think he actually knows about this so I think I'm gonna have a, talk with him about this over again, maybe when they are you know , they they grow up you know that kind this is not their adolescent you know they feel very !wah! I'm the biggest in the school that kind of thing right


(mmhmm) (mmhmm) (mmhmm)


yes true, !wow! yes true (mmhmm) yeah


ya true that's the thing when when they are in a group right when somebody said ah you so scared ha you know oh why you don't want to join in to you know ya peer pressure so I think sometimes uh that make us sad even worry worry I'm so worry about him when he's going to secondary school


you know he's very introvert and he's not good with words, like I think his face ah if I'm I mean I I always I usually tell him you know <P2>anaki</P2> Ahbang you know uh your face ah like people see your face already ah I don't like you sia, like you know that kind don't like you don't uh your face ah like you know like like arrogant like you know I I don't know how they said ah like in malay they call it Step ah you know Step yeah he have that face you know he's not the friendly face you know like me like smiling smiling people see so friendly


he doesn't smile to someone who does he doesn't know you know, ya that's the thing yes


ya true true like me uh me and my ex-husband we always like discuss about uh who who we we play a part both of us play a part in our children's life, we are from a broken family but when when it comes to my kids like whatever they are going through I share with my ex-husband and my ex-husband actually play a part with me together


you know, who doesn't have time for your children right who doesn't, yes (mmhmm) no ya yes true


ya true I think like right now like the <P2>alisha</P2> and <P2>darnish</P2> are growing up, and their behaviors are getting more and more you know challenging, you know and then with nowadays the millennial you know they they call them uh tiktok generation the millennial generation


it's different from us last time, like for me like you know last time very Guai Guai they call it Guai Guai is it like with my mom uh I'm quite scared you know like if my mom said no means no but, of course during my my teenage year I do


rebel here and there you know but then after that, when we come to our age we we actually tone down a bit lah, I think it's just the age lah babe ah, yes (mmhmm) (mmhmm) true true true


and and like uh sometimes I find that uh <P2>anaki</P2> <P2>darnish</P2> will sometimes said hurtful things to me as well you know , like I don't know as a parent I think as a mom we are quite sensitive towards yeah, what what what are the most hurtful hurtful words to you you what what what is like you know example of uh hurtful words a child can said to you


oh (mmhmm), ya true true, yeah


so far I haven't experienced that silent treatment


is the jet ah jet jet can you hear that, not yet


these jet ah, okay already, (ppc) (ppc) can hear right, yeah now okay already okay (mmhmm) ya ya (mmhmm) yeah


have a positive ya I think with this program I think it's quite good because sometimes, they have a positive outtakes for all these you know, yeah, ya right like right now I have to talk to <P2>darnish</P2> I have to have a heart-to-heart talk to him about what happens you see like his friend is suicidal thoughts and everything it affects a a person life because I was once err also bullied in school


for body shaming lah you know, I uh I I do feel very very, ya true


generation through generation through generation right, ya how do we stop this bully bully thing and this you know and and it's very sad, about like you know the US kids where they all actually, actually perform the suicide because of these you know they actually go through the suicide because of you know


of these bully cyberbully you know and then, word bully in school, yes yes, (mmhmm)


ya but but it but they uh actually it does happen you know, it does happen, but it's just that we are not aware maybe we're not aware of this , you know not so much vastly in in America where all of them are doing it together


over here is quite mild lah you know the tiktok challenge, yeah it's kind of uh the asian will be influenced by it


right, I mean like it's a is a is a, ya it's a online is an online platform where everybody can watch it and sometime they just pick it up you know as a challenge, yeah, you know like you know I I still remember


uh one of the saddest day uh that I lost my grandma when I was young, ya you know when I was nine years old in fact, life was ya I was very very close I was the only granddaughter, uh paternal paternal grandma I will always go to her house during school holidays sometimes they will bring me to KL you know travel around with them


so because I'm the only granddaughter right, so when when she the day that she, ya that time at that point of time but now they have but after my grandma passed away there's one more eh two more in fact they are still young lah you know but, err my my maternal grandma uh I'm sorry my paternal grandma when


when she the day I think the week because it was going to be hari raya that week, alright so when when she wanted to go to the hospital right, she already bought like, I think five kilogram of


uh of all the hari raya you know dishes that she like to cook like you know chicken and all and and she cook the Serundeng you know Serundeng you can keep right, so the day before she went to the hospital she actually cooked the Serundeng, and that was the last dish that she cook in this earth you know


she pass away exactly err during the prayers the the hari raya prayer, like eh like the what is it called, Tak ya Takbir in err, in the the night before hari raya is the Takbir right, so she passed away peacefully in the hospital and you know uh the most uh hardest thing is like when when you are at uh during her funeral right when after her funeral process have finished right then uh we sat down and eat the food that she eat she cook you know


yeah ya, everyone cried that is the last last ever meal that was cooked by her lah she love cooking she loves cooking for her kids her grandchild especially me because I was quite a fatty last time , she loves to cook for me I think that is one of the most err the loss that I felt after that uh I would not you know up till now in fact you know I cannot see her I cannot you know


talk to her, ya that's very very sad you know, that's my experience of a loss, of a grandfather so that's why, uh a grandparent that's why when when we talk about just now was back to the suicidal right, so you know these children I think my kids they they haven't really really feel the loss like like what we feel


ya, so that's why they they don't feel the they never feel the loss like how we felt that is why they they actually don't don't see the consequences of the words that they said negatively to their friends


oh okay (mmhmm)


then how did you how did you, mentor her or anything did you give her support, (mmhmm) (mmhmm) ya true the stir


oh the streaming ah is it call streaming as well last time I also forget lor, (mmhmm) ah ya oh oh get that letter (mmhmm) oh not her usual self yeah (mmhmm)


you have to voice out and you know heart-to-heart talk right, like as a person ya, I think it is also quite good that uh actually this , this incident that happened with my son so I can actually uh talk to him more about this this topic about you know it's not a taboo


uh, ya it's not a taboo in in fact uh I heard some of the, err some, uh I heard some spotify right there's a podcast that I heard about in Singapore, there's a few teenagers who actually you know went through suicidal went through it and the mom she actually went through two teenagers who suicide


it is very sad it was a very sad podcast I can feel how the mother feel you know so I think uh, uh I it's only that I don't know why is it took her months, to tell or is it recently I don't know I but so far <P2>anaki</P2> is not involved but yet again I have to the teacher advised me to tell him that do not get involved in this kind of conversation with the friend you know


(mmhmm)


she was ya, uh yeah contradicting yes too different yeah


part two positive experience


when when was that ah is it last week, oh yes okay okay that is my uh I'll I did my signature for my HDB, ya for my BTO you know you know with the COVID situation right now is like they are actually having a delay


for this uh HDB thing you know the construction and everything so uh I did have a, problem uh because I wanted to put my husband name in right, we because he's a second timer so he has to pay a resale levy


so so this resale levy now the HDB actually settled everything they actually incorporated the levy inside the selling price of the house the purchasing price is it ya so that was what I'm praying for lah you know it's a very very good experience like you know when when when the officer call me I was so happy


cash yup no no I don't have to fork out in cash they actually incorporated everything to the uh you know to the sell uh the purchasing price and I can pay through CPF


uh with my husband pay and my pay I'll combine , uh no we don't have to I think for for uh for cash payment oh we will be uh all on CPF


deduction, ah they said I actually supposedly uh in quarter first quarter of twenty twenty one but due to the COVID situation, they are aiming at the second quarter, ya because you know this kind of thing is I've been uh setting this goal for so long


ya, I have been you know for the five, five years uh five years I think ya from two thousand fifteen, when I started planning to buy a house and all you know BTO and everything, yes


ya despite ya despite the COVID situation you know, (mmhmm) so how about you , how about you did you have any err last week did anything good happened to you, ya ya yes ya


ya and the nicest thing that you know all our customers said to us like you know they love the product that we sell or the clothes that they wear they love it the material is good and all that stuff it makes us it makes me feel happy whenever, I have this kind of uh positive uh feedback from the customer


and actually they most of the customer they actually returned to buy more, from our from us, yeah, oh but then again but then again with this COVID I actually miss what you know travelling


yes the last time that I went travelling I think one of the most memorable I think is Langkawi, Langkawi is Bali is my you know is a girlfriend it is one of the best lah but with Langkawi is because is with my children


you remember Ahbang and Kaka, it's their first time experience of you know uh taking a plane, a flight, yes and they they keep, bugging me you know like they said uh ma please lah I want to try to my friend all take the plane you know so as a mom of course you feel like okay lah I want to do this for them lah you know


at least like it's one of the memorable, uh memorable moment then and they are so excited in like you know when they took up they take the train the plane right they were so excited they are so happy you keep you know you can see them smiling, no except for <P2>danielle</P2> lah <P2>danielle</P2> you know lah that girl [kan] that girl lah she will you know uh


want to vomit lah all these uh motion sickness you know that kind of thing but <P2>anaki</P2> was very very, very very excited, how about you have you ever have any uh great travelling experience


I think I think you should start you know I mean like twenty twenty one maybe a good year to travel I hope after this COVID situation we you know we can just you know go travel and everything uh I'm looking forward to travelling next year if if the borders are open maybe I'll just grab go to Batam you know


you know like ya Batam is one of the best uh place to go you know, Batam Batam I love Batam because of their food , Bintan no not yet I think Bintan is more on chillax ah, relaxing so where where have you travel before


oh Jakarta !wow!, that's nice !wow! !wow! (mmhmm) (mmhmm) oh ya


that one is #tangkuban perahu# is it in Bandung or in in Jakarta, Bandung, !wow! three places as a teenager !wow! that's great, I went to uh #gunung ledang#, uh eh with school trip ya #gunung ledang# that was a very


yes yes yes we we went to the summit yup to the summit, uh that was actually err TAF club TAF club we are all in TAF club you know, ya and we we actually uh climb up to the summit you know as a TAF club member we are all so fatties and then we climb up up to the summit and that was a achievement we we stay overnight


yes, no no secondary school secondary school I was in sec upper sec I think uh but that was very fun because when when uh we we halfway through we actually slept overnight at the is on on top of the Gunung you know


yeah, ah yes yes I'm quite adventurous lah last time you know but now ah you ask me ah I rather be on bed lah , rather than you know mountain climbing all these know, so I wanna ask you ah babe did you like


hate anything when as a kid uh when when you're a kid do like anything you hate but now you love it, I


I think okay I fear of cat I I have this trauma with cats but, and I also have allergic with cats so, cats I can but I after awhile I'll be like oh you know, ya when I see a cat like okay you don't disturb me that's it


you don't come near me I don't you know you don't you don't you don't come near but I think like when when , yeah yeah, how about dogs how about dogs like for me last time I was afraid of uh even walking side uh from side way uh you know with dogs


side by side ya but but now I I find it okay, ya ya now I'm okay with it and if even if the dog is on the floor or anything right I'm okay with it, yeah I, I think I overcome I overcome that that that uh you know that's that fear yeah


(mmhmm), oh, tell me what was your best birthday present that you ever had from someone, I I


I I'm not gonna tell you is a secret is a surprise but what what is the birthday, present that you had like very it's like you is a memorable birthday present, for you (mmhmm)


(mmhmm) oh the dome ya the dome ya, flower flower, no no I I have haven't been to, I've been to garden by the bay but I didn't go to the dome or you know or the marine you don't have uh have you went to the MBS


like the hotel itself, oh you you already stay there before is it !wah!, haven't sia I should have try it ah, I mean just for the views are nice ya, ya


and imagine you are at night with a view and then you are munching on something what is the munchies that you think is you know you that cheer you up usually, like <NEN> is it


oh, I'm not a chocolate person I don't know I'm just uh I'm not a chocolate person I I prefer Keropok you know I prefer all these snacks


ice cream once a while I'm not into these chocolate or ice cream kind of or cakes you know, I think I'm more on the cheap side you know like pringles you know that kind of thing, uh or you know you know that uh mission what is it call nachos is it uh ya nachos ya


I think I'm that the the snack type lah you know not not the or Kacang lah like Kacang you know, or the nuts and everything, (mmhmm) now you're making me hungry


somebody complimented me oh yeah I you hear that that voice the jet right the in Sengkang is always flying in the jet you know ya


oh Woodlands also is it, oh yeah, yeah so, you know some time is a big headache lah for me, every every now and then they will fly, ya oh also Sembawang oh the base ya


is it the base of the ya this one I cannot do anything lah eh we we complain also no use ah , ya you were telling me about the, the, someone actually commented on my work is it, I tell you what


it the appreciation that I have during my work is when teacher's day, you know parents parents will actually like you know come up to me and even the you know made a handicraft you know the children actually made us handicraft ya I mean that's the most simplest thing but it really touched my heart


like they are so appreciative of us you know nurturing their child and you know (ppc) sorry and also taking care of them for the the the school school hours right, so parents actually some of my parents , bought me uh cupcakes for me and my uh assistant teacher


so both of us you know like really enjoyed and they buy as chocolates and then you know and some of them actually go to the extra mile of buying us, scarf and uh bags, and everything is so is so it just make you go like !aww! really this is so


yes is is not the gift that they give, not not the gift that you know they give during teacher's day but it's the thoughts that when whenever they message me like thanks teacher for looking after my child you know for nurturing them I think that is you know , one of the best compliment that


a lot of parent and one more thing when uh I met back with my first batch of children err students that I actually, I actually you know when I teach them when I was nineteen years old all of them are all grown up you know they are already twenty years old


ya they remember me, the parents also remembered me, ya so that makes me err happy, whenever they you know they they remember me and then they mentioned my name like !hey! we are already big already you know


ya, so how about you is there any any uh, , you know anyone that describe you for your house uh hard work you know like you are a nanny right you're a, educarer, so what what have any any feedback ya


(mmhmm) ya ya, !wah! <P2>alexandra</P2> is like I I'm sure you miss her right, yeah !wow!


what else err like and and she really keep in touch with you still now right, yeah yup


ya if I can get all my kids to sleep before ten I think, ya, the last one at some time, but usually usually usually she will sleep before twelve lah


but some time you know ya, that's why so usually uh between eleven my mom is a sleep whisperer she can make, put the baby sleep, even yesterday at eight eight eight PM, she slept and then you know why she wake up she wake up at six AM


ya she slept at eight AM uh eight PM yesterday, ya about there twelve ten ya, then she uh when she woke up at six she slept back at seven seven AM, ya


yes she can sleep she can easily sleep if with my mom but not with me


ya true right like even my son and my daughter that you know the <P2>anaki</P2> and, err <P2>alisha</P2> , do their beds you know the beds and everything, ya growing up


more growing is much more a lot of other thing that comes with growing up, rebel you know rebelling you know they they are more rebel ya ya they are very rebellion and you know that kind of thing, but I'm just


ya I'm just thankful you know for right now what I'm thankful for, is actually, my incoming house upcoming house, err which I've been waiting and you know it's been very uh scary it's uh been uh very, uh


uh rocky rocky situation when I did not know should I pay in cash or should I you know , you know where can you find that amount of money or fifteen thousand in cash right, so it after


ya it's very stressful so so when uh I'm very relieved and thankful that you know the HDB actually help, to assess my case is like case by case right, but, I'm really looking forward to you know move out from from here


to have a new environment you know like you know my my house is one room one hall right so I share it with my children the same, and the children are also looking forward to have their own bedroom you know, they already say I'm looking forward you know that kind of thing


ah ya err (eer) <P2>darnish</P2> and <P2>alisha</P2> will be sharing the same bedroom lah with uh <P2>delisha</P2> but we have a bunk bed for them, so they just wanna have somewhere they can actually not sleep with parents you know my son keeps saying, ma you know I'm twelve years old leh I'm still sleeping with my parents in the same room


he says that you know like okay ya so so I said that's why you have to be thankful lah you know of life I said even though we're we are like this we are progressing, we want to progress to to build a better life or you know to provide for a better better environment for our children


like they are growing up right and you know there's a lot of stress that uh whenever they shared the room with me they will be like oh I'm so they want to talk to their friend on the phone also they say the mom my mom is at inside the room, yes yes ya ya he already back already uh I haven't had the conversation with him yet yeah


yeah just now he had malay and uh english yeah first was malay then english, it's only listening comprehension their oral they already take uh I think last eighteen september eh no no they take it last month for the oral ya this is now is only the listening compre


ya, yes


what's with the low and the green


no because it still says low, ya my my this one is still uh blue but, hello oh ya correct, I see I see okay


ya correct ya okay, oh sorry <P2>mas</P2> what were you saying, ah yes


err standard one, uh POSB and then uh OCBC, then what's yours three two ya


no no POSB and OCBC, oh because, because err I feel that one is for savings and then one is for expenses lah, ya true (mmhmm) err


I mean both are savings accounts but I use one for payments of bills, then the other one is, to try and save, err POSB uh yes err ya lah of course what is that uh


oh current account is it, yeah , correct correct correct ya ya ya I think so yeah I don't recall seeing, uh POSB having any current account !wah! how come (mmhmm)


is a joint joint account like that, means (mmhmm) (mmhmm) (mmhmm) oh then err


is yours, ATM or debit card, does it come with oh uh used to lah err is quite err


I think it's quite difficult to maintain, err especially you know uh when it comes to, the err, the monthly payments, and then to keep up with the interest if you do not pay err, on time ya ya used to have


no no it's still one red button, oh so (mmhmm), oh better not lah babe better not


it's a very dangerous thing to do, (mmhmm) oh okay okay true true


ya uh uh I mean in the uh at first you will feel that oh uh you know it's like, uh, how should I say you're at you are enjoying the uh the, the, the easy access to you know having this err


credit card because you know you feel that oh uh whenever you need uh, uh you whenever you're short of money to buy the kid's stuff or whatever you know you you have this uh, err credit card to , to count on but then err when things happen for example like you know your pay gets delayed or you know err like


uh ya for me even that time I was doing err, freelance work so it's like you know monthly is not fixed, so when you don't have the funds to, pay back for the, the amount that you have used for credit card right


(uh huh) uh


no no no no the yearly you mean, you have to pay yearly ya it has an err for credit cards it have I think even debit cards have annual fees, but, uh the more usage of the credit or debit card then you know they can waive off err, the annual fee uh


ya ya I know I know right uh what happened was err my husband uh his OCBC funds inside his savings account got, got used by, (ppc) err and then I think it's a scam or something


ah yes yes ah yeah they called unauthorised transactions ya so because of that now you know we also keep some savings at home instead of just the bank, ya true yeah true true ya true ya !wah!


no but I tried to the err few years back I tried to apply for home loan , err with my mother for, uh because we thought like we wanted to get a new, flat, uh


okay our our loan application was not approved lah but err , I it it to me err, , I don't even want to apply loans actually because one thing you know , I've had bad experience with my credit card and then ya with fluctuating fluctuating interest rates and all that


uh I'm not sure lah I I I'm, quite not uh, , really keen to apply for loans actually


err I think that was because, I think due to our combine salary also I think wasn't err enough to maybe for the banks to doesn't meet the requirements of the banks maybe, yeah yeah but then again yeah yeah (uh huh) but the bank loan yeah


but better HDB loan lah if you can, , ya if you can uh you know you're you're applicable for the HDB loan better the HDB loan, yeah, err then uh eh uh so, your


just now back to the accounts uh your joint account is only with the children ah you, I was ya did, do so you have never considered opening up joint account with your husband, (mmhmm) oh I see


because I don't know I'm considering err joint account but some people say , no need some people say err need so I I am quite confused but anyway my husband is not keen on a joint account so, ya


I think it's still best to it's still best to you know to to manage your own lah, ya ya true (mmhmm) (mmhmm) (mmhmm)


err to me uh sixteen because uh, their own bank account they can only open uh sixteen actually, wait wait seventeen seventeen I think seventeen no to have the because err as long as they're, of a certain age their accounts are joint accounts with mothers right uh so for their own personal account uh if I'm not wrong for POSB is uh when they turn seventeen


sixteen or seventeen I forgot, (mmhmm) (mmhmm), no no no no he can just go to the bank, ya correct correct ATM card ya (mmhmm)


err I believe it would teach them, uh I mean the the uh it would teach them how to be you know independent in managing their own, uh money lah, but err just like me, I told them to have two account so they have OCBC and also POSB


so (mmhmm) oh no err


I have when it comes to their own money I don't know because uh, to me is like ya I will always just ask them like you know err are y'all having enough savings or do y'all have err sufficient you know your your account for savings and your account for expenses


uh but I never no no, it's up to them lah it's up to them, ya ya ya ya (mmhmm) actually I think


mine that time err there were, there was no such uh features for cashback points or miles, ya because uh that was diners diners and citbank, err because


that was err the the credit limit for those cards five hundred dollars only, monthly, not like you know not like the usual ones where it's like, you know err, two times your salary or four times your salary ya, so (mmhmm) (mmhmm)


you accumulate and then you can get ya, right right , eh then err I wanted to ask you err have you bought uh any


insurance product from the bank, (mmhmm) oh I see


err yeah uh POSB had uh has this collaboration with uh chubb chubb insurance I think is for personal accident so the monthly was quite attractive lah nine dollar ninety cent only, then uh so I sign up lah


ya but err, I mean I didn't have, no no err that's the thing I, I think it's err personal accident so probably, hospitalisation and then in the event of uh death also I think


ya, I I really forgot the details, err that oh the the thing is if you go to POSB website because I tried I tried because I wanted to sign up for the children also, but they don't have it on their POSB website anymore because I think that's


like a promotion uh, ya ya ya and then they will collaborate with different yeah, (mmhmm) (mmhmm) (mmhmm)


a different uh yeah different company and then uh come out with new product lah, yeah, but I think safest I don't know to me I feel safe lah whatever whoever POSB would collaborate I mean because it's the national bank right


yeah if it's other banks then you know quite yeah yeah true then uh oh


I think I think the best the the best is also not to, constantly use err , online make online purchases online transactions I think that's how they can actually, (mmhmm) scary (mmhmm) (mmhmm) correct correct


oh ya so that's why they they keep asking for phone, number (mmhmm) (mmhmm) to


to someone who called you oh okay okay, (mmhmm)


(mmhmm) then, (ppc)


oh so scary


yeah but even even giving out i mean making payment by paynow paylah you know and all that is also , I don't know now with the advance yeah but with the advance of technology right you yeah everything is risky actually yeah


oh you know what I think the setting you can actually err change it you know the ya


ya ya ya correct then oh oh no , true cheeky ah that boy cheeky lah


oh that means err oh okay okay


(mmhmm)


yes, part three negative experience


babe what happened just now


then err uh, I mean he went through the uh his primary school years his secondary school years also he went through this phase where, you know they gang up err


you know and err, annoy to them it's just annoying one another but, they don't realise that you know they are humiliating the other child, yeah so I mean I I went through !wah! six years of you know being called out to the


school err my son spend four years of his secondary school life err, always receiving err, uh you know caning from , the discipline master, , even though you know even though we as parents we we we yeah


actually I mean as as mothers also we feel hurt because it's like we have educated them, we have, err you know shared with them examples we have err constantly advise them know you know what's the right, uh, the right way to treat others but


especially when they're in a group ah they want to show off or, ya peer pressure lah peer pressure, true true yeah I mean ya


I I think it's it's also uh it it hurts, err me, uh when you know when people say like oh you don't know how to teach your child, or or or why, you know your your your children must err, be uh growing up this way because you know you come from broken, families but uh


uh yeah it's it's very hurtful because you know we we we're not the type who you know err wash our hands off, but when it comes to their upbringing their education correct, like we're not the yeah actually


actually to me the the term broken family would would you know would probably err suit more to those who, uh ya not not, no proper family support uh no one bothers you know but that doesn't mean like you know divorced uh children with divorced parents are


must, must be actually come from broken families I I think that term you know people tend to use it use that term loosely to, to, to to everyone uh you know that that separates or that divorce and that ya, sometimes these children also you know you you wonder whether they act out because I don't know lack of attention or not but


yeah I think, the the stresses in my life is mostly because of thinking about the children lah, uh ya I I


think is the generation now, they're more, challenging than during our time even though we rebel during our, time I still think , because of the advancement of technology and then the influence of uh you know, err social media and the outside world


you, the the the kids nowadays tend to, ya act differently than how we were last time, so my worries now my stresses now is actually revolving around, the children and their future, yeah I


I think is the silent treatment, which is very hurtful to me more than because they don't they don't they don't talk back, they only give silent treatment, uh and and when they don't, talk to you for days then you feel like even though they are the ones at fault but they don't talk to you


so ya that that kinds of, depresses me lah like uh ya okay ya ya like you know err my son you know you you


err know he's under guidance programme right, so it's


uh as I mentioned you know right my son is on the guidance programme, for one year so we still have another what, err eight more months, to go through this programme, and I hope, that after this


you know uh he would, buck up lah hopefully hopefully there's no (mmhmm) it is it's it's sad


you know the thing the thing it's sad that err, you know bullying has never ended you know like uh it is something that that, is ongoing it's something that, ya ya ya ya


uh especially now with all these uh what the challenges on social media , like all these uh like you know sometimes when they do certain stunts it's very worrying like , what if your child follows you know what if your child I mean thankfully we don't really you know hear that much incidents on this


tiktok challenges or something in Singapore correct, uh ya ya ya true true true ya so like you know


I mean I'm not saying err everything in the west is you know negative but, , it's just different different different upbringing different culture lah ya


ya (mmhmm)


were you close to her were you close to her, oh is this your maternal or paternal grandma, okay okay (mmhmm) (mmhmm) (mmhmm) okay


oh your your paternal side you're the only granddaughter, oh oh at that point in time okay okay okay okay okay (mmhmm) (mmhmm) alright right okay oh at home at home right right (mmhmm) right


oh I'm sure everyone cried, (mmhmm) (mmhmm) ya true ya true but uh


uh I mean for me because err, my daughter herself went through err suicidal thoughts because of friendship, so but I mean thankfully uh, she overcame it err, it took a while for her to overcome it and actually


and some more , err yeah uh I encouraged her that you know it's okay if err, because she felt err she felt, injustice lah like


it wasn't her fault you know uh it was like, you know how, friends can badmouth one another or can you know add, add fuel to the fire err, uh ya so she's like, caught in between and then uh she was pointed out as the


the one who cause , ya that's err and then you know she thought uh those that were close to her will click really you know truly sincere, uh she totally I think it it was a really hard time some more that was the uh prelims


for wait was that prelims no no that was in when she was uh in sec three so like uh, ya because err uh she was in crescent girls so the work the the school load, the the homework load was err


too much for her to bear and then she was struggling and then she was err, uh the vice vice president for the netball team like you know there's a lot of things on her plate and then she had this issue so she had suicidal thoughts she so how I found out was


, she actually I think she like probably wrote a letter or something, and then err she uh her form teacher actually managed to, to to you know get err not


letter like get the information out from her also some somehow lah, so then uh they so she shared with me the the teacher shared with me and, then err, ya she had no interest in oh because she had no interest in school , like she wasn't really focusing in class (ppc)


and, ya ya so, ya and then err, she wouldn't open up so it took awhile for her to open up before she she uh confided in me what was the reason, why and then err


I told her is not healthy for her to just err build a wall, uh to to the to the pain you know, , she must you know face it, uh, she must not uh, block out lah block out her feelings or you know


like err never is, because to her is like oh it's okay nobody wants to talk to me it's fine I'm just going to you know turn up to school and then if people don't talk to me don't talk to me people want to talk to me then people want to talk to me but , no I tell her it's not healthy you must uh uh yeah yeah yeah


true true ya, (mmhmm)


yeah because at that point in time I was also you know very err , really err I I couldn't really think properly because one the my daughter is experiencing suicidal thoughts depression with friendship and all that very affected because she's not the type who you think would be affected but somehow deep down she was ya and then my son


he's involved in bullying so you know two different ya two ya so !aiyo!


okay, part two positive experience


ah babe , what I wanted to say uh oh uh that time you, call me you say you have something, err good err happen remember err ya


and then we didn't get to talk much about it, err something a'ah (mmhmm) right (mmhmm) okay okay okay okay okay


so actually uh it means that basically it means that you all don't have to fork out in cash, ya I


okay uh then uh did you did y'all need to top up any cash err up uh I mean cash every month, like, after they calculate and everything, so in future okay that's good ya because ya that's good


where when when is your house, uh ready oh okay true true ya


at least you know something good err , happen in twenty twenty uh for you and family, ya true then uh (hmm) last week what had nothing that err


different wait let me think, no, I don't think so but err I mean I'm just happy that you know uh our business err, online business is you know slow but steady, that that that that's err how should I say err I mean


even though you know we have no err , no experience at all and then we just jump into this thing, so suddenly and then yeah it's still moving uh I mean I think that's the our everyday blessings lah


happy ya true true true true that's good ya then err


oh ya you love travelling right, was it Bali oh Langkawi I thought Bali, yeah surely they are excited nice nice


were they not afraid were they not afraid, oh I I mean


no I envy I envy everyone travelling but I'm not really, err because I'm afraid of heights right, so I'm I have anxiety so I , I don't know I want to travel but I'm afraid of travelling ha


yeah Batam or Bintan have you gone to Bintan no ya I think Bintan also I've never been to Bintan also err


the furthest would be Jakarta, yeah, but that was for a school trip back in secondary school so I so that's like how many donkey years ago, but it's still err, yeah uh I mean I


it's still memorable lah because you know you go with your group, of friends big group ya, and then we went to the volcano, uh, #tangkuban perahu# volcano area, ya ya ya Bandung so we went Jakarta Bandung Puncak yeah oh


then did y'all climb to the top, to the top oh !wow! (ppc) eh but that's but that's that's that's err


I mean I'm sure like you know for for your all of you like in the TAF club you know , to do something so err challenging, ya would be ya some more what, primary school primary school right oh secondary school


!wow! so very oh so it must be cold and, uh


I don't think so I think whatever I don't like as a kid I still don't like now, for example my height, you know the fear of heights and ya my fear of cats, but how about you (mmhmm) okay so


uh same same same, yeah I, I mean they are cute they are cute, adorable but, same side by side with the dogs (uh huh) oh really oh I just don't have err


ya I'm afraid of those, that fear, eh babe my birthday coming you know, then I uh


are you going to give it to me or not are you going to give me any birthday present,


err I don't really receive much birthday presents from, uh you know family and friends but, to me I think it's always err the memories lah like where I go, uh you know the places where I went to celebrate my birthday I think that's


ya, and for now I think what the the the if you were to, ask me to, remember I think, my most memorable birthday present, I think when the kids err


brought me, err to #gardens by the bay# you know the dome, with the, ya the the what's that cloud cloud dome and, uh, or flower dome or something like that have you been there, have you been [orh] you mean the sky ya I have ya ya


okay lah like nothing the views the views is the view the view is nice ya if you get the room facing the city view, especially at night and then err, especially when


err snacks lah snacks, err uh I think, my favorites oh actually I preferred chocolates, compared to snacks


or chips ya I prefer chocolate, really ice cream ice cream would ice cream, [orh] you prefer snacks for me ice cream and chocolate is my comfort food, oh okay uh ya ya (hmm)


now you ya now I'm imagining ice cream, then err oh uh, what was it err that day, someone err I think


somebody complimented you lah, remember ya I forgot , here also Woodlands also because near to Sembawang ya near to Sembawang


ya ya ya ya you were saying something the other time


!aww! so sweet, yeah ya ya ya


ya actually actually working in, industry with children, very rewarding ah I know (mmhmm) (hmm) (mmhmm)


and they remember you they remember you, !aww! ya ya


well you know I think the best family would be <P2>alexandra's</P2> family and you know you know the gifts that they give me before they left right, so ya especially err


ya lah the gifts that they give lah, when they leave like the vacuum you know expensive vacuum, ya wait ah wait ah a little so uh


err what is your perfect day do you find, that err, you know what kind of days would you consider your perfect day, really


do do they have trouble sleeping, oh the youngest one, oh my god before twelve for a small girl, so twelve hours !wow!


oh no almost twelve hours so like, ten hours sleep !wow! then you, again really


for me perfect day would, be perfect day would be, err I don't know I have teenagers right, so actually everyday seems like a perfect day oh I know I know a perfect day perfect day is when you're, uh they do things without me having to tell


them yeah like when, suddenly you see that oh they have cleaned up their mess or uh automatically or you know, ya ya make their beds these children ah ya rebellion rebellion yeah true now I have ya so far


I think I don't know lah I just can't wait for them to reach adulthood I think, (mmhmm) ya


for sure that's very , stress at that point in time surely that was stressful, (mmhmm) ya ya (uh huh) true true eh but err


will they have their own bedroom, in the new house ah okay true true true


oh ya today is his uh listening comprehension right is he already back is he already back, so so what did he say, I hope it was I hope it was it go it went smoothly


english comprehension, oh uh is it oral also or only listening comprehension, oh okay ya ah I see I see I think I think it's


it should be okay [lah] listening comprehension


part one finance


okay so I assume both of us, don't really have the first or second experience on, the products so, we just skip to three ya do you invest your CPF money


for me ya lah I agree cause, every time like uh like, every month after we get salary then like some amount is deducted for CPF money which is through what which is like an investment, for future stuff


but then, like but then it because it's only a certain amount that is, set aside for CPF then for those who don't earn that like reached that like amount that you don't have any money for CPF right then like Macam eh a bit like


like you work but then you don't set aside for CPF money so it's like, a bit wasted because that means you still have to work even more to earn more money for CPF, which is a bit sad ya


ya true that


true that, then for my school cause like, for university fee then you can use CPF right but then my CPF of course not enough, but then like can use family members' one like my mum's or what but then I feel like


it's still not, enough lah for to cover full fees, cause CPF covers not just like one thing but then like, for school or like hospital bills or whatever I think, ya


then which is quite sad lah cause like you have to reach a certain age for you to like withdraw your CPF money which is quite sad, cause when you are old then you can spend your money, right


uh true that true that, I don't think so because, is quite risky ah to invest, because it's a fifty fifty kind of thing


so like if you invest then you must like, be prepared of the consequences ah whether you gain or you lose, that's, one thing that you have to like be prepared of uh, then what about you


true, but then like in this global pandemic this COVID nineteen I feel like if someone wants to invest in this period is quite risky though, because like a lot of like companies are like, unstable now so


ya lah, plus we don't know like the the future like what's going to happen next and then what when is this virus going to end so like investing in this period is really like, risky


true that, but what would what would you invest on though


oh, oh what the heck


, but then would you invest locally or like overseas like example malaysia


uh I don't know eh, cause I feel like , I don't know I I haven't really thought about investing on anything yet lah, not for now, okay so oh ya do you think investing or trading is similar to gambling


to ya,


it's all by luck ah ya, I think it's, ya similar like gambling ah cause like it's also like a fifty fifty kind of thing, but then like you mentioned it is


like you mention it is , for the, like at least for the investment thing you know when to back out when you know it's something is going wrong, but that for gambling you don't know


which is like bad so ya


so what does in, yup


I, I think I wouldn't invest, I I think I'll just stick to whatever I have lah cause, I'm not a risk taker ah basically so, just be like what I have is what I have lah shouldn't


do stuff just to gain more, because I scared like something might happen, so ya, what about what about you


it's not much lah ya one thousand, true that, so should you will you invest with a financial adviser or should you just invest on your own


really oh, cause for me since I'm scared right I think I would go with the financial adviser cause


maybe I mean of course they know more, so, they can give me advices on stuff that I don't know about, then from there then I guess I can move on lah, because I need a help I cannot do it on my own because I'm scared


, so you would, refer to friends, rather than like professionals, in a way, cool


uh, but you like familiar with investing though


oh in school you never learn ah, oh, uh


in singapore, !wow!


but then again I again I guess it depends on like, the current situation ah cause like, maybe for now like cause of the pandemic then I guess it's hard to like, do discount stuff like selling or buying cause


I don't know ah


(hmm) ya ya, cause I feel like I should, earn more money or like be financially stable at least then I can like, think about in like other stuff of investing or what ah


cause for now my main goal is just to be financially stable


true, ,