Photos Via Flightglobal
whats the RCS of pakfa in comparison to F-22.India should buy su-35 too which has a low RCS than any plane in indian inventory.
SHIV , please make documentry on present state of LCA-TEJAS
Its a beauty for sure
Cool pics Shiv.Waiting for more..Is it the Indian variant?? (twin crew config)I am quite doubtful about the heat signature of the engine. Its almost looking the same as 4th or 4.5 gen aircrafts.Hope they have a solution to it to make it a perfect stealth fighter
The plane looks awesome. Sad india only signed up last year. If we had signed up earlier we could have had some input in the jet..also i hope india buys much more than the 200-250 planned. I would say around 1000 or so would be good ..
The number of wikipedia researchers is amazing , to anon at 12:13 pick up a book on microwave reflection to the anon at 12:43 suggest a book on jet propulsion and a good thermodynamics book, later thrown in a aerothermodynamics book. radar shaping to reduce signature is done for band specific radars ie the most common threat, the skin conductivity and impedance make a huge difference. also the rcs depends on the angle at which the illumination beams are coming in, response lobes read em up. jet engines are some of the most complex machines on the planet, the heat haze might look the same that possibly has to do something with the controlled explosion of fuel in the annular combustor. no matter what you do a jet stream at 1000k will always cause heat haze, and due to the performance requirements of this type of aircraft having more available thrust will be better then trying to cover up the heat signature.
Beautiful bird!Looking forward to seeing it in IAF colours!
hi shiv.. any comparitive info on lca vs jf-17? thanks..
@Shubham: See Mihir Shah's piece here: http://livefist.blogspot.com/2007/04/pakistans-jf-17-thunder-analysis.html
To Anon @ 1607You are seriously wasting your time :)I dont mean it in a bad way.
PakFa looks menacing. It has to be more capable than F-22.
That is not an analysis...it is basically crap written by BR types, compiled into one document. They are so one dimensional that one learns nothing. Can you a real analysis based on having had a look at it at farnbrough?
Given the exposed engine exhaust I don't see how this would be a'stealth' fighter. Looks like a patch up of old 4/4.5 generationtechnologies with some elements of the shape copied from the F35.Also, I don't see the russians sharing any technologies. They justwant India to pump in the money.Of course, India has to tag along anyway as a `co-developer' as theonly hope that India has of gettingits hand on key technologies is from the russians. But I remain doubtful of India benefiting interms of technical know-how from this project.
@Anon 6.55PMEven though France didn't transfer technology with sale of Mirage 2000 yet India learn't a lot just by flying and maintaining these ACs.And these learnings found their way to Tejas program. Even if Russia shares no tech with us, just by flying and maintaining these ACs alongwith F35s we will gain a lot of tech knowhow.
This looks like a mean-machine and can really take head-on with F22. Some points that are not good for this aircraft is:1. engines heat signatures. 2. Shape of air-intake and concealed engine3. It is not clearly know what India's input in this machine. (composites, equipment derived from LCA experience etc). The op of first comment says why can't we buy su-35 and about RCS etc. If we buy everything from Russia, it would not be IAF rather RussianAF
Hi Shivi feel this is close to fifth gen but it is not actually tha much of a stealth figher aircraft. Russian might be using indian money in developing its real fifth gen or more advanced version for its own purpose because russia does not always want to play catch up role with america. PAK FA is a lolly pop being provided to Technology deprived india. Reasons for this1. Russia includes india when almost 90-95 % of work is completed on t 50]2. Having 95% comlete technology it thinks it might develop more advanced fighter to counter upcoming american fighter. So it includes india to fund this future fighter in leu of pak fa. India infact has no significant role in its development.3. IAF orders totally stealth fighter shows that PAK fA does not satisfies its stealth requirement.well its all permutation and combination of facts and may turn out to be just a wild guess.well, whats your take on this SHIVplz comment
Instead of just going gaga over this stealth fighter we should also debate on the fact whether would Russian be exporting this to China. If i am not wrong ,i think India has contributed around 5 billion dollar , around half of cost of the program. we can at least ensure that this plane is not exported to china and the Russian don't sell their Stealth technology to China.Right now the situation in POK is going out of hand. China wants to use Gwadar port to secure its oil supplies . So instead of using Malay strait it would prefer using Gwadar port and route the oil via POK into western china. So by increasing its presence in POK not only gives China an opportunity to in circle India but also is economically beneficial. Moreover when POK becomes economically important for China. Then we Indian could only dream of annexing POK. Now only thing that would keep Chinese at bay when we try to test our Flanker over POK would be these stealth planes. Chinese would eventually crack this stealth technology no doubt. but we should try and ensure that the Russian don't help chinese.A surgical strike over POK may may not serve any purpose (and i am ignoring the stiff American resistance ) but would send a signal to yellow man to stay out of POK
http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=214284,Nice Resin Shop model of the PAK FA
The point regarding the engine/engine exhausts is quite valid. I'm hoping that the current fitment is just a jugaad until the real thing is installed.A very disturbing trend I'm seeing nowadays in all Indian security-related threads is that jingoes treat any naysayer or critic as a 'paki' and a 'chinki'. This attitude reflects why our country's armed forces are currently in such a mess -- jingoistic idiots believe they are the best and they are unbeatable and ignore all sane advice from others. Have'nt we seen the result in '99 during the Kargil blunder?
India can't face pak in kashmir and you think you can face china :-). Paks took their part of kashmir from india by force in '48 and '65, and they would back anyone over india. Its a pity that indians could have had pak on their side and it would be china that would have the problems in muslim area's and tibet. But hey you are so clever.
No aircraft has 100% stealth, not even mighty F22. Current stealth tech only reduces radar signature drastically, it does not annihilate radar signature completely. Failure of F117 and limited stealth of F35 are case in point.Where we are struggling with our Tejas, at least this is a very good beginning.@RajivChina was flying Mig19s few months back. They still manufacture and fly 1950s H6 bombers with hardly any modification. Even after so many decades they are yet to develop a decent 4th Gen fighter. They are way behind India in terms of technology as almost all countries have arms embargo against China.
Both India and Russia need each other's concurrence to sell this fighter to 3rd countries. Unilaterally neither of them can sell this plane to another 3rd country.Besides this, after Russia's bitter experience with Su30 exports to China, they will be wary of repeating such mistakes again. China will take at least another decade to build a decent 5th Gen fighter.
The project is not 90% complete, as some posters seem to be implying. What this plane is right now, is a fund-raising show horse. Which is why it is being shown to Putin as well as India, two key forces controlling the funding. The engines fitted are not the ones that will make it to the final spec, those engines are still under development, so it wouldn't be too unreasonable to expect better exhaust signature suppression in those when they arrive. The radar and avionics require much work as well, and is right now pretty much a mash up of whatever they have had lying around in their parts bin. In fact, this has been the way Russians have developed at least their last few airplanes. Come out with a quick-ish prototype and then make incremental changes to it. A look at the T-10 that became the Su-27 would explain the range of changes that a plane could undergo before it reaches final spec. So, again, it doesn't seem too unreasonable to expect that there is room for further improvements, especially in the case of s-ducting, etc. And for the Indian version, I would speculate that we would take the Su-30MKI route, where we would end up developing some of the systems, and picking the better market choices in some other systems. Israel comes to mind. Of course, I am an optimist. :)
Wonderful bird, eager to see IAF symbol on it.It would have me more pleasing to see if it had been developed right from scratch in INDIA.(I guess many would have died of heart attack if this was true !!!)
Thanx! This is one of the projects where India is on the right track in-spite of being somewhat late.
A very sorry state of affairs for India.Even when the AMCA is under development, should the IAF really purchase this ? I thought our last import was the MRCA.Instead of spending $5 billion on this thing, India should instead pump this cash into the AMCA to make it a success.Is the IAF/MoD listening ?
@ abhid-dwe have a policy of not giving enough funds to various projects and then cry when we dont get resultsgo find out how much has been spent on the LCA...then come back n see me getting flamed for not bashing indian products
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