US media blackout: French oppose vaccinesBy Jon Rappoport And vaccines is one of those stories. Here, from thevaccinereaction.org, is a shocker: The French National Debate on Vaccines, by Marco Caceres, August 19: Between 2005 and 2010, the proportion of French people in favour or very in favour of vaccination dropped from 90% to 60% (2013 INPES Peretti-Watel health barometer). The percentage of French people between the ages of 18 and 75 who are anti-vaccination increased from 8.5% in 2005 to 38.2% in 2010. In 2005, 58% of doctors questioned the usefulness of vaccines administered to children while 31% of doctors were expressing doubts about vaccine safety. These figures must surely have increased since then. France has punched a gaping hole in the fake consensus about vaccines. In the US and other countries, people are taught there is an overwhelming positive attitude about vaccines. Allowing this story about France to leak and bleed into major media would refute that lie in a second. Not only is consensus built through relentless propaganda, but when the consensus doesnt exist because the propaganda fails, that fact is blacked out. To put it another way, major media exist to invent consensus, and when they cant, they hide the fact. American medical reporters for mainstream outlets are among the worst journalists in the world. Over the years, Ive spoken to some of them. They try to radiate scientific authority, but behind that front theyre a) brainwashed morons or b) sold-out pharmaceutical shills. The shills hype medical drugs, vaccines, and just-over-the horizon research breakthroughs with the phony conviction of late-night infomercial spokespeople. One reason a high percentage of the French oppose vaccines is: out in the countryside, they still know what good clean food is. Based on several conversations Ive had with people who live there, the fresh local produce makes American food, by comparison, taste like cardboard. The French understand that real nutrition is a key to preserving health. Thats why pharmaceutical giants are rooting hard for GMOs and pesticides, and are, in some cases, producing them. The more GMOs and chemical poisons on the land, the lower the level of general health, and the easier it is to peddle vaccines and drugs as a necessary answer. Thats how the game is played. (To read about Jons mega-collection, Power Outside The Matrix, click here.) The author of three explosive collections, THE MATRIX REVEALED, EXIT FROM THE MATRIX, and POWER OUTSIDE THE MATRIX, Jon was a candidate for a US Congressional seat in the 29th District of California. He maintains a consulting practice for private clients, the purpose of which is the expansion of personal creative power. Nominated for a Pulitzer Prize, he has worked as an investigative reporter for 30 years, writing articles on politics, medicine, and health for CBS Healthwatch, LA Weekly, Spin Magazine, Stern, and other newspapers and magazines in the US and Europe. Jon has delivered lectures and seminars on global politics, health, logic, and creative power to audiences around the world. You can sign up for his free NoMoreFakeNews emails here or his free OutsideTheRealityMachine emails here. it is just awful what the government is doing to the very people who pay their wages and make them rich beyond belief LaRae, You could also say that it is awful that people vote for these crooked politicians. The solution is to stop supporting them. John Wantling, Rochdale Voting is rigged. Excellent review! An accurate poll of Americans would probably display similar percentages, with an increasing trend in opposition to vaccination. Americans are aware of Dr. Hillemans confession. Governor Brown of California recently displayed bought-off-behavior by signing the mandatory vaccination edict in California. With all the naturalists in California, Brown could not possibly be so ignorant as to invalidate individual consent for medical treatment, which points to other motives. They replaced Simian 40 Monkey Virus with something else now to cause cancer. http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_virus01.htm Who cares what Americans think in a poll? It means nothing. Before vaccines there were millions of deaths from diseases that you no longer have to worry about BECAUSE OF VACCINES. Spreading this anti vaxxer nonsense is ignorant, superstitious, anti science, anti humanity, and dangerous. Before vaccines, millions regularly used to die from outbreaks. Smallpox is extinct because of vaccinations. Polio would be extinct from Earth if not for some superstitious, backward, suspicious, irresponsible idiots in a village in Africa and a few other isolated places. Allowing them to not be vaccinated endangers the entire World. That is the logic for mandatory vaccination the safety and health of all, not evidence of bought-off-behavior I suppose you would allow Typhoid Mary to be your cook? If YOU are vaccinated, you are Immune and cant possibly catch a disease from any unvaccinatedthat is logic. I care about other people besides myself like innocent children whose parents are gullible to fall for this BS. I dont want them to be sick, do you? Or do you not care about them? Or are you so selfish you cannot think about future generations who may suffer from your mistakes? What if a disease could be eliminated from the face of the Earth and the only thing keeping that from happening is a handful of anti vaxxers? Is that their right to pass this deadly disease onto our grandchildren. I hate is only toward those who would endanger millions through their selfishness and ignorance. Tell that to the world class soccer star fully vaccinated against mumps, that just came down with a case of the mumps! Question: Did you receive all of your childhood vaccinations? Do you recall what they were? I assume I had them all, I remember getting polio at school. Why? Thanks. Ill come back to that assuming that you answer my main thread. Your standard propaganda does not stand up to either valid experimentation or accurate review of health statistics based on vaccination. The basis of vaccination is founded on suppositions such as yours, which is why MDs who honor the Hippocratic Oath call it Voodoo Vaccination. You need only look at the history of millions of deaths pre vaccination and the near elimination of many diseases after vaccines. This is evidence, Polio went from tens of thousands of cases every year to ZERO in the US and ZERO in every nation that uses vaccines. Diphtheria, tens of thousands to nearly extinct. Smallpox EXTINCT! More people died of the flu in 1918 than in WWI but you would have us go back to those times when millions dies because you have bought into a nutjob conspiracy. Your propaganda is well represented by your inability to write a summary sentence. So it is with voodoo vaccination, also. Supposition: no facts. Is there even a coherent point here? I fail to see one. How do you explain the fact that those who get vaccinated do not get the disease? How do you explain the elimination of diseases coincident with the introduction of vaccines? How do you explain that outbreaks only occur where vaccinations are not given? How do you explain the elimination of Smallpox. How do you explain the many millions of lives saved since vaccines were introduced? How do you not understand that the body can develop antibodies to defend against a disease by introducing a dead virus. How can you explain the irresponsibility, superstition, credulousness, gullibility, and sheer stupidity of a group whose most prominent spokesperson is Jenny McCarthy? Neither empirical nor statistical evaluation of vaccination and contagious illness supports your idea that, those who get vaccinated do not get the disease. You have said nothing to refute anything I have asserted and have added nothing of substance. You are obviously too infatuated with your conspiracy to look at it objectively to see how absolutely absurd it is. Heres a timeline to simplify it for you. 1. Millions die from influenza, polio, smallpox, measles, diphtheria and others. 2. Vaccines are introduced. 3. Rates of disease plummet and some diseases that have plagued humans for centuries are extinct. Areas without vaccinations continue to have outbreaks. You claim this is all some sort of coincidence? Your knowledge of the scientific review of the fraud of Edward Jenner and voodoo vaccination is weak. Your accommodation to voodoo vaccination propaganda and its repetition is strong. This example was in an undergrad textbook of mine on statistical methods in research science illustrating classic fallacies in cause and effect assumptions. 1.) Sales of ice cream increase in the summer. 2.) Suicide rates increase in the summer. 3.) Therefore, ice cream consumption must drive some people to suicide. That is plainly ridiculous. Ice cream and suicide? Right or wrong , vaccines are supposed to provide immunity to the disease. Clearly they have more than a connection than suicide and ice cream. You were beginning to get my attention with well reasoned arguments you are back to square one with me after this example. Its a simple example from a textbook illustrating correlation does not equal causation. What could be missing here? Infection disease contraction and fatality rates drop precipitously with improved sanitation and nutrition. At the tail end of this drop, widespread vaccine use is introduced. Vaccines are then erroneously credited with being the primary intervention to many common infectious diseases. It is perhaps possible that it is all a coincidence even though the very purpose of vaccines is to eradicate these very diseases. This is far different than your inapt example where one is completely unrelated to the other. A better example would be that suicides went up during the Great Depression. Did the economic stress cause the increase in suicides? Could be from another unrelated cause? It is possible, but unlikely that there is no connection. As Ive already stated, vaccines can in fact spread the disease. Outbreaks also occur in heavily vaccinated communities. You seem averse to responding to my points with evidence. Why is that? Show me evidence of that I cant show evidence of a negative. Show me where that has happened Trying to turn the tables and still avoiding my main thread of questions, huh? Nice try Mr. Lib. Again.. 1. Vaccines can and do cause permanent damage for a portion of the population. Start with point 1 and refute it with evidence please. I already answered all of these why dont you take a turn and provide evidence for these assertions. Can you please copy/paste your answers? I dont want to paraphrase. I also asked for them one at a time to avoid tangents. To recap: In the west, fatalities from infectious diseases plummeted in sync with improved sanitation and nutrition BEFORE the widespread use of vaccinations. That should make you stop and think that, epidemiologically speaking, contraction rates and response are closely tied to cellular immunity, not merely humoral immunity (antibodies). I dont need a recap. I have already gave an example in CIS, Canada, and CIS where outbreaks occurred in developed nations where vaccinations were halted. You have utterly failed to explain this. I replied to explain the effect of confounding variables. Which you dont understand. Its as though I am trying to explain calculus to a two year old toddler. OK Mr. I dont like ad hominem attacks. Nearly every real, actual, educated, scientist and doctor agrees with me some a lot more educated than you I suspect. Are they all toddlers trying to learn calculus as well? They have been indoctrinated just as Humphries and I were indoctrinated. Far too busy trying to memorize massive amounts of handed down information. It takes a brave person to buck the system and one willing to invest a lot of time doing independent research. Look how long the conventional cholesterol-heart disease myth has persisted despite available hard evidence to the contrary going back 20 years or more. Most researchers and clinicians barely have time to keep up with their own field making us all very compartmentalized. You didnt understand the confounding variable point, thats obvious, and that kind of stubborn resistance to learning makes it nearly impossible for someone like me to help you achieve a paradigm shift onto a broader platform of knowledge. If those who get vaccinated do not get the disease, then why mandate vaccines?? You still havent responded to the contradiction of why vaccines must be mandated, if, as you assert, those who get vaccinated do not get the disease. BTW, do you know that Humphries exposed the HIGHLY embarrassing situation of Offit (the Godfather of vaccines paid handsomely Big Pharma) posting on his website that human cells normally use aluminum as part of their cellular function? Scientific experts on aluminum toxicity (and heavy metal toxicity in general) had to be rolling on the floor. I was shocked having some research background on common sources of ultra low level heavy metal toxicity in the promotion of neurological diseases. If you see what is happening in Africa (article I posted) the answer to mandatory should be obvious, polio could possibly be wiped from the face of the Earth so no one would ever suffer from it again like smallpox. Why should a handful of Muslim fundamentalists leaders prevent their people from immunized and thus keeping this horrible disease around to endanger our children? It is no different than having a quarantine, or having pure food and drug regulations, or keeping Typhoid Mary from working in a kitchen. Humphries meticulously makes the case that polio was an exaggeration and to some extent a fabrication as the diagnostic criteria were changed as the vaccine problems became suspected in the medical community. It was a moving goal post. Dissenting scientists and physicians were ignored or removed from government panels, exactly as was done with the FDAs approval of GMOs. This is heavily documented. Fatalities from infectious diseases plummeted in the west when sanitation and nutrition standards improved, around the turn of the last century, long before vaccinations were widely available. Polio, like smallpox, is primarily a scourge from poor sanitation and poor nutrition. The massive polio vaccine campaign in Africa has created a secondary problem of acute flaccid paralysis, just as crippling as polio, with an Indian medical journal estimating 47,500 cases in its 2011 report. What other unintended consequences might emerge in the years to come? Why did diphtheria resurge after vaccination rates fell in Germany, Canada, and the CIS? Did their sanitation go down all of a sudden? Confounding variables would have to be researched. For instance, vaccination rates might fall because economic conditions or demographics are changing and those variable would have a direct impact on disease contraction. You still arent addressing the problem of your logical fallacy as to why vaccines should be mandated if those who choose to get them are protected. Question #2 I have posted this 3 times, but here you go again. L care about other people besides myself like innocent children whose parents are gullible to fall for this stupidity. I dont want them to be sick, do you? Or do you not care about them? Or are you so selfish you cannot think about future generations who may suffer from your mistakes? What if a disease could be eliminated from the face of the Earth and the only thing keeping that from happening is a handful of anti vaxxers? Is that their right to pass this deadly disease onto our grandchildren. I hate is only toward those who would endanger millions through their selfishness and ignorance. Using an emotive terms such as selfish and innocent and then implying I dont care about suffering, which is why I chose the my profession, is an absurd strategy. I am concerned about insidious long term effects that I dont believe you are able to grasp. How about our generation totally eliminating a disease (like smallpox) so no one will ever have to get vaccinated for it or will ever have to worry about contracting it? Our gift to our grandchildren. The only thing standing in the way is the unvaccinated who host the virus and allow it to continue. Thats a noble goal, however, IMO, it would come at too high of a price given the long term risks I have been able to discern from the scientific literature and my own background knowledge. Moreover, there are many molecular biologists who can foresee a dangerous sitting ducks situation of few people having natural immunity to pathogens we evolved with. These viruses are are commonly found in other mammals and viruses mutate faster than any other biological entity, due to their short life cycles and primitive error prone polymerases. Theres more to say here, of course, but beyond the scope of this medium of exchange. Question #1 You say I never give any evidence and when I offer some you blow it off without even an attempt at explaining it. Very weak response and a total cop out. Show me evidence that provides a logical alternate explanation for the lack of vaccinartions followed by outbreaks in developed nations. I never said you dont provide evidence. You are confusing my commentary again with another poster. IMO, evidence works well in a research paper or presentation at a symposium when a group of highly educated (could be self educated) individuals on a topic have the background to critically dissect an issue. If you dont understand the relevance of a point I make you cant assume it is because my point was a cop out. Sorry, you are probably right, I am carrying this on with 3 other people, all at the same time. .and not answering any direct questions. Your strategy is pretty transparent Im afraid. Seems that every time I ask you for specifics you go silent. I have answered every question (multiple times) but not one of mine has been answered Sometime Disqus doesnt send me an email and I cant find your answer when going through that exact thread. Kindly copy/paste it. I admit I know nothing about scandals of Big Pharma and even individual misconduct. If there are abuses then those committing them should be sued or in prison. Reform and regulate I am all for it. My issue is people endangering others by anti vaxxers getting large numbers to forgo vaccinations. This will lead to a major outbreak and much needless suffering and death. Paul Offit, the lead medical voice of mandatory vaccination, interjecting disinfo and censorship is not about a Pharma scandal, its about institutional tyranny. Deep capture, as understood in political science is much more than the action of rogue elements. Such a system is impossible to reform without a major consciousness shift. You still didnt answer respond to the logical fallacy. BTW, more regulation is not a standard Libertarian response, its give the people all available information and then let them decide for themselves what risks they want to take. Correlation is not causation. You need to read Humphries excellent deconstruction of polio. I never buy into nutjob conspiracy, I do my own extensive research, but I bet you buy into coincidence theories and would never admit to false flags, assassinations, MK Ultra, bankster control of the mainstream media, economy, and political arena. Man it is a tough road to be the physician true to the oath.still better to be lonely in truth then complicit in lies. When the +-60% cross over, they take none of their payoffs with them. However, their inhumane activity is recorded. Better to be lonely in truth then complicit in lies Well said!!! My, my my,,,arent you just filled with hate, why? What are you so afraid of? If you are vaccinated why should you care? You are safe, right? What difference does mandatory vaccination make? Whoever is vaccinated is safe, right? By your twisted logic only people who are not vaccinated stand a chance of being exposed to dangerous viral spread diseases, right? You arent really so altruistic that you care that much about the rest of the world, are you? You dont sound like it to me when you call everybody that doesnt agree with you names just like a schoolyard brat. I care about other people besides myself like innocent children whose parents are gullible to fall for this stupidity. I dont want them to be sick, do you? Or do you not care about them? Or are you so selfish you cannot think about future generations who may suffer from your mistakes? What if a disease could be eliminated from the face of the Earth and the only thing keeping that from happening is a handful of anti vaxxers? Is that their right to pass this deadly disease onto our grandchildren. I hate is only toward those who would endanger millions through their selfishness and ignorance. As innocents, they also dont deserve risk of the devastating effects of autism or death as the case of teenagers developing CNS inflammation leading to disability and death from Gardasil injections. We are born with natural rights to decide what cost vs. risk benefits we will take, that is at the core of personal autonomy in medical ethics the heart and soul of classic liberalism. Eugenicists have also believed they could eliminate genetically linked diseases from the face of the earth for the greater good. Cost benefit!? Perhaps some side effects for one in a million by your own data compared to millions dead. Yes, lets do cost benefit analysis. My own data? Thats BS. You would fit right in working as a Big Pharma minion. LOL! As innocents they dont deserve to get a deadly disease because their parents decide safe vaccines are too dangerous but deadly diseases are not. How are they safe? Please explain There is no scientific link to autism, period. Of all the cases paid out by this government agency for side effects due to vaccination, they are less than in one in a million. Pick any disease and the consequences are far more severe. Chicken Pox. William Thompson, for starters. Wakefields findings have been corroborated in subsequent studies including research from an American university. Quantify one in a million. Point to facts for once! This is based on payout by the VICP Put a real number on it along with a total payout. Why point to only US data? The US is not a big enough sample size for you? The bottom line is that vaccines are very safe. Connections to complications are not proven. Oh, its plenty to prove my point. Again, put a real number on it along with a total payout. You have no idea how safe the vaccines are or are not. You only know the received wisdom from the Establishment and Big Pharma, which controls the FDA. This same FDA that whisteblower Thompson has shown hid data showing an increased risk in autism from vaccinations. Dont fool yourself, parents, not children are deciding. What if they are wrong, deluded, superstitious, have offbeat religious beliefs. Should a child die because their parents are against antibiotics or transfusions? Yes. Should a child die or suffer life long damage because their parents just did as they were told without asking questions? The question responsible parents should ask is What is the greatest danger. Disease is FAR more likely to cause harm than any vaccine. Prove it. I have provided evidence that there is little danger from vaccines and that these diseases used to kill millions. If you dont believe that the vaccines had anything to do with the eradication of the diseases in spite of overwhelming evidence, then I dont know if anything would satisfy you need for evidence. Like all who believe in a conspiracy, there is no evidence that could be provided to alter their opinion. All data is faked to further the conspiracy. Occams Razor applies here, I have a simple and straightforward explanation as to how and why these diseases were eradicated by vaccines and why places that dont have vaccines still have outbreaks. Your explanation needs vast conspiracy, weak explanations of improved conditions being the real cause of the drop off (in spite of counter examples never explained by you) . When you have to go to such extreme lengths to keep you narrative alive it is probably wrong. Is this your proof? Let them all diesurvival of the fittest. O.K. youve shown you frightening vision. The question is, will anyone here condem you? So far, none of you have broken solidarity with each other, no matter what a fellow believer says. ANYONE disagree with tardis? ANYONE? I bet you love abortions and GMOs too! Youd lose. I think abortions are a tragedy that is none of the governments business and GMO and Monsanto are evildoers who are out to destroy the family farm. Hmmm, well then youre half way there! I saw a talk show last week that had four doctors onall they did was push vaccines! Because Doctors are more informed about medical issues than conspiracy nuts in France. Many doctors refuse to vaccinate their own kids! Many? Do you have any proof. I looked up a Swiss survey and found that 5 percent of nonpediatricians would not use the Hib vaccine for their own child. Their reasons for declining the use of Hib for their own children included a lack of concern about the disease. So they selfishly endanger others because the risk is low because most everyone is immunized. Pediatricians vaccinated at much higher rates than non pediatricians. If vaccines are safe and effective, why has VICP paid out over 18 billion in damages related to vaccinations? Also, a similar program in The UK has done the same to the vax injured. No medical intervention is completely risk free. Vaccines, though they are designed to protect from disease, can cause side effects that range from mild to serious. The most common side effects from vaccination are soreness, swelling, or redness at the injection site. Some vaccines are associated with fever, rash, and achiness. Serious side effects from vaccination are rare, but may include life-threatening allergic reaction, seizure, and even death. When vaccines first began to be widely used, people who experienced serious side effects from vaccination had little recourse to compensation from manufacturers, physicians, or the government. This was particularly a problem when vaccine production techniques were in their infancy and contamination of vaccines occasionally occurred during or after manufacture. Since the passage in 1902 of the U.S. Biologics Control Act, which initiated the regulation of vaccines, such problems with negligence in manufacture have declined greatly. As product liability law evolved during the 20thcentury, it eventually provided an avenue for compensation for individuals harmed by vaccines: they could sue a manufacturer for harm caused by an improperly made vaccine, or they could sue a physician for administering a vaccine when it was contraindicated. In the United States, the civil court system applies the principles of tort law to these suits. This rest of this article addresses programs that compensate individuals for adverse clinical events that are known to be caused by properly manufactured vaccines. Because governments have an interest in maintaining public health by means of vaccination, many, including the U.S. government, have developed no-fault systems for compensating people who have been adversely affected by certain vaccines. These people, to some degree, have assumed the risk of adverse event on behalf of the society in which they live. Therefore, many governments have adopted the position that it is fair and reasonable to compensate those who are harmed by properly manufactured vaccines. Why dont vax makers simply remove the junk? Keep the attenuated antigen and get rid of everything else. And you have no inkling as to how insidious long term effects can easily be missed by the current system, especially one heavily biased and in a state of deep capture? There have never been any controlled studies on the use of aluminum in vaccines, for good reason. Tip of the iceberg. Im still waiting for an answer to my question below! Dont see any question below. Why dont vax makers simply remove the junk? Keep the attenuated antigen and get rid of everything else. They absolutely remove anything that is not necessary to its effectiveness. Instead of saying vaccines do not work, focus on insisting they are made with pure ingredients? I would completely support your movement then. No, they do not remove the garbage. It would cost them too much money. on in one million yet no word from you about what would have been the suffering if no vaccines were given. From 2006 to 2014, over 2.5 billion doses of covered vaccines were distributed in the U.S. according to the CDC. 3,169 claims were adjudicated by the Court for claims filed in this time period and of those 1,939 were compensated. This means for every 1 million doses of vaccine that were distributed, 1 individual was compensated. Since 1988, over 16,113 claims have been filed with the VICP. Over that 27 year time period, 14,117 claims have been adjudicated, with 4,205 of these determined to be compensable, while 9,912 were dismissed. Total compensation paid over the life of the program is approximately $3.2 billion. Pardon me, for some reason 18 billion came to mind. You neglect to mention most diseases were already on the decline before vaccinations for the were created. Also, most vaccines today are for common illnesses that go away all by themselves. Such as the dreaded Measles, its common childhood illness that goes away in about a month. They used to even have Measles Parties for kids to expose them so natural immunity would give lifelong immunity. How do they selfishly endanger others, if, as you assert elsewhere on this thread, those who get vaccinated do not get the disease? Duh, they endanger others who are not vaccinated, future generations (for whom the disease could be extinct if not for the anti vaxxers), their families (who they may provide for or who may care about them), taxpayers who will bear the burden of dealing with an epidemic, overburdened hospitals who may not be able to provide care for regular patient in the face of an epidemic, first responders who will be overburdened by a breakout and the time and effort to deal with it. That doesnt make sense because everyone who ascribes to your reasoning will have protected themselves. Next you will have the Diet Nazis telling people what to eat so taxpayers wont have to bear the burden of health care costs. Take your strategy of the end justifies the means to its logical conclusion. Libertarian ideology is contrary to forcing ones choices on another, that would be neoliberal and neoconservative, which arent liberal or conservative just fronts for globalism and technocracy. I am not taking it to its logical conclusion. This is a fallacious argument called the slippery slope. Just because I advocate protecting society from the time bomb danger of infections disease does not mean I want to ban McDonalds, smoking, cars, drinking, and driving motorcycles. Saving the taxpayer from cost was only one of MANY reasons (and the least important) I gave for having mandatory vaccinations. The bottom line is freedom to choose what to put into our bodies must be absolute in free society. Its our natural right. Im amazed that you would spend so much time in back and forth exchanges when you dont share any of our views or care to broaden your perspective. As to your being amazed, likewise. You didnt give important points their due consideration. The main ones being 1.) Grave concerns over known and suspected risks that havent been allowed an opportunity for a full vetting owing to a captured system, thus no true informed consent possible and 2). Recognition that mortality rates for infectious diseases plummeted BEFORE the widespread introduction of vaccinations with death rates already plunging 95-99% when vaccinations were introduced for measles, whooping cough, etc., hence, immunity is a more complex system than most realize Humphries has many graphs for the historic data charts she meticulously assembled, if you care to look. www (dot) dissolvingillusions.com/graphs/ As to the first point parents are deciding for their children, it is not a free choice. Can society have a quarantine? Can society protect itself from public health threats? What is a terrorist infected himself with smallpox and started flying around the the country? Typhoid Mary, can we make her not work? As I have stated before libertarian philosophy allows freedom for the individual; UNLESS he is endangering others or interfering with the rights of others. What if an unvaccinated child (by parents choice) died of diphtheria? Didnt the parents violate that childs rights? Group think isnt a function of being factually informed. Indoctrination is the word. You are obviously not among like minded folks here if you go down the path of using the term conspiracy nuts, repeatedly. And if you are critical of the one person here who isnt like minded then you may want to examine your own possible connection to group think. Insulting a group of people with the use of what you perceive to be a derogatory term (conspiracy nuts) and then using an appeal to authority does not make for a rational argument or reasoned debate. The vast majority of regular selfnews Post readers know throwing around the term conspiracy is a non starter. Questioning top down paradigms inherently involves rejection of group think. Ironically, no one Ive ever come across is more gifted at this process than Rappoport. As I already mentioned, the group think here is as powerful as any Ive seen anywhere. Anyone who doesnt buy in is ridiculed as some sort of incurious drooling tool of government propaganda. I assure you that I am not as I question just about everything the government and I am always suspicious of the corporate world. I justfind the success of vaccines irrefutably compelling. Of course, I understand why you find the purported history of vaccines to appear irrefutably compelling because as a student studying immunology it seemed to me to be a reasonable and even cool explanation of mankinds triumph over disease. The more you dive into the world of scientific research, the more you understand how shades of gray can take on mythic proportions of being the big truth and why that happens when there are very smart people driving seductive narratives typically incentivized by profit, ego, and larger Establishment agendas. Please recognize by using ad hominems (conspiracy nuts, foolish, anti-science stupidity, ignorant, superstitious, etc.) instead of engaging with us in reasoned discussion as an open source community of people searching for hard truths, you do yourself and the truth and liberty movement a big disservice. Respectful and well informed contrarian commentary is always a good thing. Always. How may whistleblowers have to come forward before youll admit the world has been duped by Big Pharma who own the doctors, researchers, universities and MSM. Its easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. Big Brother told me not to read this nagalase inhibitor turns off the gcmaf natural body tumor special ops attack force and no collateral (perceivable damage). also see crispr-cas9. hopefully California will return to their individualism intellect. Ofcourse not at the expense of more autistic babies. Moms dont vax dont allow your new born out of your sight at the hospital. Have your baby at home. The doctor researching that was murdered. A bunch of conspiracy nuts in France punch a hole in the vaccine consensus. Well they didnt dent reality. My Great Grandfather was raised on a farm in Wisconsin (no GMOs or factory farming). In 1881, his older brother went off to school in Minneapolis and contracted diphtheria and died. His belongings were packed in a trunk and returned to the family where the 4 youngest brothers and sisters all were infected and also died. 5 of a family of 8 were dead within 3 months of each other. The more people who buy this BS, the greater the possibility of a pandemic. The danger is small as long as the anti-vaccers are a limited to some isolated cranks but if this ever catches on in any serious way the consequences will be most grave. This movement is dangerous and ill-informed. Sorry, but youre in the wrong place. selfnews Post is a place for critical thinkers. Its a bit absurd that you use Diphtheria as an example. That disease is borne out of unsanitary conditions. If you drink the equivalent of toilet water on a daily basis, no vaccine in the world can help. Thats why there was a major diphtheria outbreak in The CIS, Canada and Germany when the vaccination rates went down in the 1990s. Maybe you should examine your own critical thinking skills before you question others. The outbreaks are tied to places with low vaccination rates. Unsanitary conditions contribute to the speed of the spread, yes. But those who are vaccinated do not get the disease, period. Theres no need to get testy. I guess I need to start from the beginning with you. How long has the anti-vax movement been going on? Please be specific. I dont know specifically, my cousin was bombarding me with this and of course Jenny McCarthy was touting it a few years ago. I am not saying that there are not evil corporations, etc, but not believing that vaccines are not real is dangerous because the more who fall for this, the greater the danger. Diphtheria was once a greatly feared illness in the United States. In the 1920s, there were between 100,000 and 200,000 cases of diphtheria each year with 13,00015,000 deaths. Because of widespread immunization and better living conditions, diphtheria is now rare in the United States.Vaccination is the most effective step you can take to be protected from this serious disease. Saying I have no critical thinking is responsible for my testy tone. Sorry. As a libertarian you can take all the vaccines you want, as long as you dont push them on othersthats the libertarian thing to do! I agree that mandatory vaccination is not normal libertarian position. But to not get vaccinated is endangering the lives of others and is therefore a legitimate use of government power. You cant endanger someone vaccinated with immunity. How is it that when vaccine critics cite individual examples of morbidity and mortality directly caused by vaccinations, the pro-vaccine crowd says these are merely anecdotal and rare cases of a fulminant autoimmune reaction but when a pro-vaxxer cites his or her own anecdotal case they believe they have a deep enough understanding of the science to say vaccination critics are full of BS? Epidemiology, immunology, and the general field of medical science cannot be understood with such tiny lenses. If there are some issues about a handful of cases, I am fine with experts dealing with the repercussions of that. I am concerned about the millions at risk if people foolishly believe that vaccines are not generally safe and effective. If this view prevails, the result will be thousands of deaths and the handful of cases will be forgotten and the people will cry outwhy did all these people have to die? This is like climate change denial the price of anti science stupidity will be paid by future generations. Im sorry you missed my point that your anecdotal story and ones I can provide are in no way to be taken as clear scientific evidence of cause and effect. I have invested much time researching both sides and am fortunate to have the advantage of being a medical scientist, who, like Humphries, did not question what was handed down to me until I began observing major errors in medical paradigms. I also know well the history of medical science and there are consistent patterns of cognitive dissonance and push back when the dominant paradigm is correctly challenged. Climate change is also a complex subject that has been grossly oversimplified as a public debate. Any science that rejects open discussion and serious questions about methods for data collection, analysis, and modeling bias is not true science. Falsifiability is antithetical to a dogmatic approach. Ultimately, the greatest need is for absolute transparency and you dont understand why that is not achieved because your mind is handcuffed to a knee jerk rejection of the concept of powerful people collaborating to serve their own needs at the expense of others. You may be surprised to learn that I agree with your view of science and also the complexity of Climate Change. It bugs me to no end when these Republicans say I am no scientist but The opponents to doing something about Climate Change fund scientists who are trying to prove there is no danger and to obfuscate the issue instead of practicing true science. On the other hand, I have seen the same sort of sloppy science all over this page cherry picked misleading stats, bits of interviews taken out of context, wild conspiracy theories that are all over the map, even a definitive statement that there is no such thing as a communicable disease. This idea has been allowed to stand by everyone posting here except me. Excuse me if I am not impressed by the scientific tenor of this site when taken as a whole. You appear to be the exception, not the rule. Sorry you missed my point that the long term efficacy and safety of all vaccines cannot possibly be known from anecdotal instances, mine or yours. It takes a great deal of intense research to fully understand such things. A lot of people would like to think they should be the arbitrars of what is foolish and what isnt then use force to impose their views. That is a far cry from classic liberalism (libertarian-minded views), rather, it is Technocracy. I had a friend from France that was sending constant tweets condemning anyone that questioned vaccines. I wonder if hes eating his words now. If they told you informed consent whats in vaccines, youd run out screaming! I have always signed an informed consent form when I get a vaccination. No doctors give this unless asked. Some doctors even get indignant when asked for it. Please try to steer clear of anecdotes unless you have some way of proving it. I have signed them for my son as well. Personal experience is not allowed? O.K. I say that personal experience is not valid because I could tell you that my youngest son suffered neurological damage as a result of his MMR shot but it would be called anecdotal by pro-vaxxers. I am truly sorry to hear about your son, but how can you conclusively know that the cause was from the shot? Most of the evidence I have seen for ill effects from vaccines is supplied by parents who self report the problem. With millions vaccinated every year, if a child has a problem but it may have nothing to do with the vaccination at all. I have seen no scientific proof of a link to these problems and these side effects. I fully understand the desire of parents to assign blame, but that does not prove a connection. Let us consolidate these conversations so that we dont fly off on tangents. Do you have any comments regarding my main thread? Particularly the history of the anti-vaxx movement? If you are for improving the safety and ingredients of vaccines you would get no objection from me. I have read that the quality control of vaccines has much improved over time, just as have peanut butter and hot dogs. My only argument is with those who dont believe vaccines are useful in protecting public health. They imagine some magical force halted these scourges at the same time that vaccines were introduced an amazing coincidence! They see conspiracy everywhere and no evidence can sway their paranoia. They think the government is deliberately causing cancer but never say why. They discredit reasonable dissent by making outrageous claims against the government and corporations. The funny thing is that I am more suspicious of corporations than anyone yet the claims here are not plausible and are not supported by evidence.. One in a million has some side effects? This is a small cost considering the millions who were dying from these diseases prior to vaccination. If the anti vaxxers were around 60 years ago, we would still have people dying of smallpox. You need to read Dr. Suzanne Humphries book Dissolving Illusions for clear perspective on smallpox and the vaccine paradigm in general. The most astute researchers and clinicians critical of vaccination protocols FULLY acknowledge the pros and cons of vaccinations. The debate is far more nuanced than you allude to and starts with a thorough understanding of cellular vs. humoral immunity. Cumulative burden of heavy metals, cytokine storms, assaults from adjuvants, viral contamination, and other known problems are medical fact, not speculation. Dr. Suzanne Humphries, a doctor with a conscience, who practices no harm. It seems that youre pretty new to this debate. Vaccines are not safe and effective as the MSM seems to keep repeating. Off the top of my head I can think of 4 reasons: 1. Vaccines can and do cause permanent damage for a portion of the population. The one in a million argument is so nebulous and never quantified. Start with point 1 and refute it with evidence please. Rather than vilify people that question/refuse vaccines, doest it make more sense to simply ask the question Why? You seem to be laser focused on Diphtheria. Very well. RE: Because of widespread immunization and better living conditions, diphtheria is now rare in the United States. Can you define better living conditions? Also, can you point to evidence that suggest vaccinations played a major role in the decline of cases? Outbreaks, though very rare, still occur worldwide, including in developed nations, such as Germany among non-vaccinated children, and Canada. After the breakup of the former Soviet Union in the early 1990s, vaccination rates in its constituent countries fell so low that there was an explosion of diphtheria cases. In 1991, there were 2,000 cases of diphtheria in the USSR. By 1998, according to Red Cross estimates, there were as many as 200,000 cases in the Commonwealth of Independent States, with 5,000 deaths. The common theme is the lack of vaccinations, not the living conditions. Vaccines cannot cause the disease unless they are live viruses and even then it is rare. Dead viruses cannot spread and cannot infect others. as for 4. If the virus has nowhere to go, it will die off and the epidemic is over. So if everyone has immunity, the virus is doomed. Let us deal with these points one by one, shall we? Start with point 1 and refute it with evidence please. Vaccines have caused severe autoimmune reactions leading to permanent disability and in some cases death. In the US, more than 100 deaths have been formally attributed to Gardasil, most were rapid onset in otherwise healthy young patients. Vaccines have been found to be contaminated with viruses, as was the polio vaccine, thought to be the cause of tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands cases of lymphoma. The medical journal Lancet published a paper in 2002 estimating nearly half of the 55,000 cases of non-Hodgkins lymphoma diagnosed each year are a consequence of the polio vaccine contaminated with the cancer inducing SV40 virus. Note that in these cases, the way SV40 disrupts cellular function, it takes many years for cancer to develop. This is an example of an insidious problem that takes a tremendous amount of research and good insight to get to the bottom of, if ever. When a child gets a vaccine and screams for 8 hours straight, and begins slamming their head against the wall due to the pain and trauma their brains are suffering, and loses all eye contact and verbal speech. Or the seizure that often happens whilst still in the doctors office, or the high fever. Doctors tell parents, this is absolutely normal. High fever, seizures lead to brain damage, word dyslexia, motor skill disfunction. Where is this information from? Im seeing a consistent pattern with you in that you repeatedly make nebulous claims with no supporting facts/evidence. Here are the basic rules regarding debates: Answer all direct questions Violating any of these rules demonstrates that you have a weak argument. It looks like youre violating at least the first 2 rules. If you hope to appear credible in this forum I suggest you start supporting your claims and answering direct questions. Yep, Ive a best friend, her daughter received encephalitis with her 19TH vaccine. So they told you in detail that Aluminum, Mercury, Bovine Serum, Embalming Fluid, Aborted Human Baby Fetal Cells, etc. were in your vaccines? Waiting for answers to my questions above and below! file:///home/chronos/u-68e411ac0ef37b52b154df678f9df6eb45338ebc/Downloads/ec-113.pdf You may have signed a form, but did they read you the insert and explain what toxic ingredients was in it? Vaccine free and Im loving it. :-) DUnce hat! As for too deeply entrenched in her mind how about you going to ridiculous lengths to deny the obvious that infectious diseases exist? Hormones? Seriously? How many here are on board with this? He is making you all look like nut jobs. Join him or debate him if you leave this to stand I will assume you agree or are too cowardly to condemn Personally, I am certain of the ill effects of vaccination and have never found any reason to sway that belief. Certainly not by some rabid, hate filled punk that cannot prove a thing he says, but uses ad hominem attacks like a schoolboy ridiculing something he doesnt understand. I really dont care what you assume. Your attitude and remarks speak volumes for your irrational fear of something that clashes with your world view. This isnt a game with sides, although I guess you could say it is the people who are open to the truth , no matter what form it may take against those who will not consider anything other than what theyve been programmed with. Lets review. I am certain of the ill effects of vaccination and have never found any reason to sway that belief. and This isnt a game with sides, although I guess you could say it is the people who are open to the truth , no matter what form it may take against those who will not consider anything other than what theyve been programmed with. Do you see any inconsistency between these two statements separated by only a few sentences? Certainly not by some rabid, hate filled punk that cannot prove a thing he says, but uses ad hominem attacks like a schoolboy ridiculing something he doesnt understand. NOW THIS IS IRONY! You are accusing me of ad hominem attacks and write that sentence. Do you know what an ad hominem attack is or is it just some SAT word you like to throw around? Where have I made an ad hominem attacks? Do you think you just made one? Are you a hypocrite? Name calling is ad hominem. You have done this on numerous occasions. You are incorrect. As hominem are personal attacks unrelated to the issue every adjective I has use is descriptive of my opinion of the position the poster has taken. Do you think lastgasp ids doing this, or do you all always stick together? You are being disingenuous. Personal attacks in the form of name calling are not substitutes for reasoned arguments. You have done this repeatedly. Where is you condemnation of lastgasp Oh thats right you wouldnt attack each other for doing worse name calling than I ever did making you a hypocrite. Not ad hominem because your actions related to this issue are the very definition of hypocrite. Because you are called out for name calling instead of reasoned arguments, you, in turn, attack me with name calling (hypocrite) for not engaging in the commentary of everyone posting on this thread? I am not a nanny and I dont have time to be the P.C. police. If others resort to name calling, its on them and not productive. Why are you my P.C. police and no one elses? That is the very essence of hypocrisy. Thank you for the references. From what I can see, Humphries is taking the battle to the medical establishments own turf by finding hard evidence that contradicts the deeply entrenched myths of vaccination being the primary or substantial cause of disease eradication. Know the infowar MUST be fought on several fronts. I am open minded but I also know what medical science has clearly demonstrated. Oftentimes the problem is interpretation. CMRedwood, she is good is Dr Suzanne Humphries, but she now needs to move on and drop the infectious model. Only then will she understand the health disease process. To sit on a fence, a balancing act, entrenched in the infectious myth (infectious polio is one example) will get her nowhere. But as I say, those who hold onto the infectious myth will simply not see it or want to see it as they are so focussed to the point of obsession on the idea that we catch disease, which is absurd. Its really about the conditioning of the mind through cultural norms and psychological and sociological issues. When we are raised in a culture that paints motor cars red, then we became acclimatized to that and so we then paint motor cars red. We follow like lost sheep, we fit into place. To use another colour is a taboo, we get punished. Most people are like that, our friend libertarian is like that. We merely repeat the mantra endlessly, we are really defending our own condition regardless that we make no sense. This means we are not using our heads, we are on auto-pilot, programed to self destruct. Sadly, the airplane will eventually crash. Vaccine damage airplanes, its popular, but the plane will eventually crash. John Wantling, Rochdale Wikipedia is hardly a scholarly source. Or do you know what a scholarly or verifiable source is? Do you even know what the definition of libertarian is? Perhaps you could start your journey of discovery by looking up the definition of libertarian in a good dictionary, you know, one of those that doesnt have pictures? Libertarianism is the view that each person has the right to live his life in any way he chooses so long as he respects the equal rights of others. By avoiding vaccinations you endanger all humankind. How do you know humankind has not evolved to co-exist with bacteria and viruses in a balancing act? Even common bacteria and viruses can become dangerous when our bodies are weak. Viruses mutate quickly and cross species, natural immunity would protect us far better from the introduction of new viruses than relatively weak and one-dimensional humoral immunity which requires constant boosters to keep antibody titers up, not so with natural immunity, it is lifelong. Because natural immunity caused millions of deaths. You might as well say we shouldnt practice medicine because people with bad hearts or children with an ear infection should die so as not to pass on their defective genes. What about all natural cures? Cures or preventatives? Both. Appeal to emotion and a straw man fallacy in so few wordsman you are a world class shill. Damn straight. Nailed it. Where did I present a straw man argument? You clearly dont have an education in the biological sciences, much less medical, thus you have no idea what Im talking about. Heres a perfect analogy: For a decade or more, oxidative (free radical) damage to cells was thought to be the source of diseases and aging, a universal negative with the exception of free radicals such a hydrogen peroxide being used by macrophages to kill invaders. In the last ten years this paradigm has matured and evolved into a far more sophisticated nuanced understanding that we very much need oxidative stress to upregulate powerful antioxidants proteins in our cells. You are arguing nonsense, a one-dimensional paper tiger argument. Its only recently medical science has been on a steep learning curve on how our commensals work with our bodies like a symphony. Natural immunity caused millions of deaths? Its prevented a quadtrillion or more infections from taking hold and killed countless cancer cells. Natural immunity has worked to shape our species. Just as exposure to allergens is necessary at a young age to train our immune system to tolerate our normal environment, exposure to bacteria and viruses shapes the developing immune system into a deft army. Again, since you cant grasp the difference between humoral and cellular immunity, you are trying to argue something you dont understand at all. Of course natural immunity has prevented virtually every person from dying. That is how vaccines work using dead virus to allow the body to develop a natural immunity. But natural immunity (before vaccines) allowed millions to die from diseases that are not preventable by using vaccines. Vaccines only stimulates the humoral system, whereas natural immunity from natural viral contraction engages both humoral and cellular immunity creating a permanent memory to a vast array of epitopes. Humoral (vaccine) immunity is not, by definition, natural immunity. Why do you think boosters are needed? There is a difference. Fine. Do you have a point? 122 cases in 2012 of a typically self limiting and mild infection does not make for a serious health problem by any stretch. If the same modus operandi is being used to reclassify the diagnostic criteria as was done in the big US polio campaigns decades ago, then we are flying blind here, again. Moreover, if immunity comes from vaccinations, rather than natural exposure, it is not lasting or particularly robust. Thus if a mutated form of the virus resurfaces there will be no longer any humans with natural immunity and the results could be easily be catastrophic. This issue is more complex than you realize. It is self limiting BECAUSE most are vaccinated. What if they werent? You are so full of crap! What pharma company do you work for? Its self limiting in the unvaccinated. I bet you have no idea that standard practice when young children were diagnosed with polio infection was to bind their limbs into braces and tight splints which impeded development. The first physical therapist, a nurse who treated the self limiting and general weakness some young polio patients presented with, was tremendously successful in getting her patients full mobility again. She rejected the arbitrary practice of binding limbs and gave them targeted movement exercises instead. The example was diphtheria, before vaccines tens of thousands died each year in the US alone. Doesnt sound self limiting to me. Unless you feel these are acceptable losses to avoid vaccination, The response I gave was to the CNN article you posted, thats why I first remarked on the 122 cases in 2012 reported in the article. You are getting confused by all of the responses. Probably Im back and forthing with three other people besides you. But I think Im done soon. It is a waste of time it seems. No one will budge, none of you will question each other about anything in spite of some outrageous statements. This is the perfect example of the Internet where a group will find like minded people and will reinforce each others beliefs by not listening to dissenters (or ganging up on them) and sticking together no matter what. Problem is you are not even libertarian-minded or well informed on deep state issues. You endlessly rationalize to support your own views. Thats antithetical to being open to new and larger paradigms. Again, you should read Dissolving Illusions and use that information to develop a more informed and nuanced perspective of infectious disease. Im sorry if you feel that youre ganged up on in this forum. It was your decision to enter into a forum with people of critical thinking skills. You may call us names like paranoid conspiracy nuts, but at least have one thing in common: Our experiences and knowledge of the subject is consistent. In contrast, pro-vaxx fanatics seem to be all over the map with their beliefs and knowledge. Ive been having this debate for nearly 10 years now, and in that time Ive heard a broad array of arguments from you people: Pro-vaxxer fanatic #1 claims that vaccines are not drugs. So you see, its very hard for anyone who thinks critically to take any of you guys seriously. I personally find it amusing when you come with your scientific claims. It would be great however if you guys could hold a town meeting to get on the same page with your beliefs. I am not afraid of being ganged up on at all. My problem is that you never seem to criticize each other even if you are in disagreement. Hardly a forum for improving understanding. When you say vaccine advocates are all over the place -I can say the same thing about all of you. You have very different opinions but you never discuss you conflicts. Enjoy your echo chamber. This is the perfect example of the Internet where a group will find Looks like you were playing the victim. Im using your own words. Can you people ever get on the same page with basic facts? BTW, you should know that many vaccine critics like Humphries have never rejected the practice of vaccination outright. They believe there is some evidence for limited and judicious use. Limited is the key term and fully informed consent. Since there have never been any studies done on the effects of aluminum in vaccines, for example, there can be no fully informed consent because the data is not there and TPTB have no interest in putting concerns to rest by doing thorough studies. If you review all my post you will not find a single instance of me defending the government or big pharma, or for allowing impurities in vaccines. I have been accused of being a lackey, a tool and of working for big pharma. I fully support full disclosure, pure drugs, open looks at companies and the government. If you were fighting for that I would fully support you. My focus has remained with the effectiveness and utility of vaccines to prevent disease and the danger of the uninformed endangering others (and their own children) by believing they do not work and/or are far more dangerous than they in fact are. And that the disease is not dangerous. Good, then lead the charge against Big-Pharma to remove the cancerous crap! That looks like the only common ground you will find here, is the absolute need for transparency so the public can make truly informed decisions. By public I dont mean majority consensus, I mean individuals being able to make truly informed decisions about their health care options. We dont have that, the process has been heavily skewed. This is where we dont meet eye to eye and I know for a fact you dont have a grasp of the level of corruption in health care and scientific research, or government for that matter. You know nothing about me for a fact. I am more suspicious of government and especially corporations than you know. You assume because I dont agree with you on this one topic that I am some sort of gullible, complacent naive fool who believes everything Im told. You are completely wrong about that and your statement that you know this for a fact demonstrated that you will assume facts with almost no evidence. Just like you have on the topic of vaccines. Whats the point, guilt by association? Personal philosophical exemptions should extend to anyone whether I agree with their logic or not. Besides, according to you, they cant hurt the vaccinated. Wouldnt that be a Darwinian survival of the fittest situation in your view? Human chorionic gonadotropin has been found in some foundation sponsored vaccine third world campaigns. Maybe the ones you are condemning for their ignorance are aware of something your arent. Only Hitler and KKK are for survival of the fittest I am for eliminating disease and suffering and certainly do not want innocent children to die because of their parents superstition or misinformed opinions. You are mistaken, eugenicists are also of the same mindset and they have been very influential in engineering social policies in this country. It isnt for you or anyone else to decide what acceptable risk is. That is totalitarian. SOTF is natures way. I had a terrible flu 20 years ago that lasted a monthhave never had a flu since (natural immunity). or luck. You cannot have natural immunity to flu because there are many different strains each year. You are kidding yourself if you think you cant get it you can get it if you have the shot if you are exposed to a different strain. Let me ask you, as an infant I had every vaccination. So how come I still got every single damn illness that I was vaccinated against? Ok. it looks like I need to be pedantic in my request. Can you please just list the total number of deaths and injuries + total compensation paid out? No need for a breakdown by year of any kind. It is really that simple. I just need to make sure were on the same page when pointing to facts. No need to expand upon it. Read the link everything you could want to know is there, that why I provided the link. How tedious this is, even when being pedantic. Once again, can you please just list the total number of deaths and injuries + total compensation paid out (from that link)? No need for a breakdown by year of any kind. It is really that simple. I just need to make sure were on the same page when pointing to facts. No need to expand upon it. The definition of proof is laying out facts, not recycled assertions. Anyone who knows ANYTHING about science knows there is no such thing as proof. Just theories that work until they are improved on. I cant believe you claim scientific expertise and do not know this. You must be getting me confused with someone else. Youre over-complicating this and I never claimed to have scientific expertise. If I did, copy/paste my text. One only needs to use logic and have basic reading skills. O.K. proof is not a scientific concept. Neither is one in a million. Any reputable scientist would laugh you right out of the building. READ the file. That is what it is, one in a million. Stop being so lazy. I read it, so can you or just drop it. Talking to you is a colossal waste of time. I reanswer and you reask. Over and over. Now now. Emotions are flaring and youre violating another debate rule. Im still waiting on you to answer a simple question. Is it such a chore? Thank you, Rachel, for finding and sharing these. Profound and heart wrenching. Many vaccines are Contaminated by mistake or on purpose. The manufacturers have all been fined billions for criminal frauds and are untrustworthy . Vaccine protection wanes in a few years to a decade even when they work. When you add in original antigenic sin and vaccine failures and shedding, we are setting ourselves up for huge problems. Immediately when they claim that the science is settled they are liars. The latest study indicates people who do not get mumps and measles have higher death rates from heart problems! A tremendous screw up as big or greater than SV40 . Vaccination for benign diseases should be stopped. At least France is reasonable. Sorry, the Baltimore Sun link didnt work for me. Is this about Carson being chairman of Vaccinogen Inc? I cant say Im surprised, he appears to be a RINO or at the very least too clueless and self-absorbed to see the big picture. Nightmare is right, and fast! Were spread too thin. We need to network now more than ever. Wow. That link disappeared fast! Yes, he was on he board. Trump is just a show clown for now but his numbers will drop or he will simply drop out, leaving Carson in the lead. Please share this info. Thx. In truth, NOBODY apposes vaccines. What some of us appose is, the overgrown radical governments that have embraced technology and IDIOCRACY to advance the Globalist agenda! Have you ever asked yourself, why is it the RURAL people everywhere are the only ones that question things? Its because we have been the least exposed to the Communist Propaganda machine of the 21st century! In USA its the Democrat Party, the Rino (Republican in name only) parties, and everywhere else, Labor, Congress, Communist, Socialist, etc. parties! WAKE UP IDIOTS. 