Legalized Plunder: Interview With G. Edward GriffinLegalized Plunder Why we have all been had, fooled and deceived. and the surprising reason we keep asking for more of the same bad medicine 18 years later, when prediction after prediction has come true, and Griffins claim that we are in the middle of enormous changes to society that will affect your lifestyle, your livelihood and your financial well being are playing out every day, people are taking notice. Last week in his candid video interview with Casey Researchs Louis James. Griffin talked about the book, his thoughts on the ominous slide towards a totalitarian state and where he feels we are heading. From here on in. Other speakers including Doug Casey and former US Comptroller General David Walker presented their insights as to just how bad a beating were all taking as a result of this unholy alliance. But it wasnt all doom and gloom. On hand were a host of renowned financial analysts and successful fund managers who revealed proven investment strategies and specific stock picks to help you profit from our overly politicized economy. Order now and you can be profiting from it right away from the comfort of your living room. TRANSCRIPT G. Edward Griffin: Yes. I cant take as long, of course, and how do you make it accurate and short? The basic thing I was trying to accomplish is to take a look into the future, because everybody at this conference or most people, I guess are concerned about the way things are changing in the economy. They know that the old rules that used to apply the old ideas of American free enterprise and free markets the rules have been changed. We are living in a different environment now.People are wanting to know, How does this affect me? And my retirement and my savings? And what kind of a world are my children going to live in? This sort of thing. So my job was to try and project some of these trends that we find today into the future, and to see whats coming down the line. Its not as hard to do as you might think, because if you want to project anything, you get a graph, and you see where we are now, where we came from, and you just draw a straight line between those two points, and you can see where we are headed. My theme was that unless we make some major changes in the forces that are acting on the economy today, we are going to continue heading in exactly this same direction that we have been heading for the last hundred years. If you project that line into the future, you dont have to go another hundred years to realize that the end of the line is coming. We have growth of government every year. Every month its a little more intrusive: its got more control over our lives; weve got less freedom; you have more inflation; you have more social unrest; we have more fraud in the government; weve got more banking schemes to create money out of nothing in order to make sure the banks are paid off. These are things that have been going on for 100 years, and they are accelerating now. You dont have to be a rocket scientist to see that within the next generation, for certain, and maybe a lot sooner than that, we are going to come to the end of that line. If we have gone from, lets say, 20% government one hundred years ago to 80% now, where are we headed? One hundred percent government, arent we? One hundred percent government means totalitarianism. And how long will that take? One hundred years ago, a dollar was worth so many hamburgers, lets say. Today, it takes $100 to get the same number of hamburgers, so weve seen major decline in the purchasing power of the dollar for the last hundred years. Where is that going? Its heading to zero. So that was my job, to bring the bad news and ask people to stop being in denial, to stop thinking, Well, everything is going to turn out okay if we just leave it alone. We have to make some very important changes. L: Do you find in general that people are even able to comprehend that message? Let alone willing? Most people think, Well, that cant happen here. That doesnt happen in America; this cant happen to us. When you say things like this, do people run away or disbelieve? And how do you get over that? Griffin: Well, some do. There is no question about that. But I find that a lot fewer do it now than when I first started to talk like this, which was when my book came out in 1998. I had projected certain trends into the future all of which have come true now. But that was years ago. People thought I was crazy to be talking about a banking crisis and the collapse of the purchasing power of the dollar and things like that. They would say, What kind of a nut are you? Well, now were living through it, arent we? So its easier to say, Things are not going well, and we can see that in our lifetime. To answer your question, most people today are open to a discussion. They may not like it, they may prefer that we change the topic and talk about whos going to win the election, or whos going to win the baseball game, or something like that, but more people are open to the realities of the economy than they used to be. L: Thats interesting. Lets talk about those people whom you can even speak with. You started out by saying, Unless we have serious changes, we are coming to the end of the line. But in a politicized situation, how realistic is the idea of any serious change? How can any politician get elected promising the painful medicine that you and I both know needs to happen? Are you really saying that we are coming to the end of the line, no matter what, because the changes wont be embraced? Or are you an optimist, and if so, on what basis? Griffin: Well, I dont consider myself to be an optimist, nor a pessimist. I like to think of myself as a realist. And realistically speaking, I think what you just said is correct: the chances of there being a great awakening among the masses of the American people in time to avert some very serious consequences are small. But they are not zero. See, thats the point. It depends to a large extent on how energetic and successful we are in getting this message out. Its not just, Hey, look how bad things are. The rest of that message is, Why are they that way? Who did that to us? Are they still in positions of power? Are they still doing the same thing to us? And so forth. If that message gets across, then the next message is, Its time to make a change in who is in power who we elect. And that means a challenge of the two-party system, really. Thats hard to do. But I think now, more and more people are beginning to realize that the two-party system really is a cover for a one-party system. Its a means by which they keep the public content, thinking that they are controlling their own political destiny. Oh, Im going to vote Republican. No, that didnt work; Ill vote Democrat. Hes the better guy, and so forth. More people realize now, after all these years of back and forth that we get a change in administration, a change in political-party labels, but no change in major policies. I think the time has come when this idea is ready is really ripe now. The bottom line is that these are very exciting times to live in, and we have a chance to actually make a difference right now. L: That brings to mind the Chinese curse of May you live in interesting times. We live in very interesting times. [Laughs] Griffin: [Laughs] Very interesting times, indeed. L: You bring up something interesting. We think of this two-party system we, writ large think of these two parties as sort of written in the bedrock of the universe. It seems like it has always been that way. But we started out with Whigs and Tories in this country, and things do change. You get to points where history happens: the Civil War happens, or other major events. To focus the question, I can see things changing if we get to the end of the line, if the wheels come off the current system. People will get uncomfortable enough, they will be hungry enough, literally, to demand change. But can it really happen before then before Joe Sixpack turns the switch on the TV and it doesnt work because there is no power? Can we really get that sort of person to reconsider the realities that they have been ignoring all this time? Griffin: Thats a good question. I wish I knew the answer to that. Ill go back to what I said a moment ago. Its unlikely, to tell you the truth. I think it is unlikely, but its not impossible, and thats what I am counting on. Rather than just sitting there and doing nothing because its unlikely, Ive got to do something, right? L: Well, you wrote The Creature from Jekyll Island 14 years ago. Has there been a change in perception of the book? Is it being dismissed, Well, you know, it was 18 years ago, it doesnt matter, or are people paying more attention to it now: Gee, you were right? Griffin: Yes, exactly what you said. When it first came out, it was sort of an academic little study, and there were some people interested who were already students and scholars in that field. But there was no great interest, because things were very good. The economy was bubbling along. There were no tent cities. Employment was high. All of these things. Of course, I could see that all of that was coming apart and that there was going to be a lot of fallout, but most people didnt see it yet. Well, now its under way its fully under way and interest in the book has accelerated tremendously. Weve come a long way. In the beginning we were pretty much ignored by the mainstream media. Now we get honorable mentions even on the mainstream media that for the most part is opposed to what we are saying but at least they mention us. Sometimes not kindly, but they mention us. L: Sometimes bad press is better than no press. Griffin: [Laughs] Yes, and weve had some good press coverage. Weve been on Fox News quite a few times, and the good coverage is continuing. So the book now is in its fifth edition, and I think its the 38th printing, which is amazing. L: Congratulations. Griffin: Well, thank you, but I dont think I deserve the credit for any of it. I just wrote the facts, and history has caught up with all of that, and thats creating the environment where its hit the public nerve. L: Is there something in the book that you predicted, a turn of events that you can say, Look, this really shows that what I said is true and deserves attention? Because 14 years ago your book was seen as a sort of radical-libertarian, tinfoil-hat kind of thing. Its like Einstein, when he first promulgated his ideas; it was very strange thinking in 1908, but then astronomers started seeing light bend. Some 30 years after the fact, his predictions started being observed. Is there something like that you can point to? Griffin: I think there is. I think that Einsteins E=mc2 was the epicenter of all his theories. I think in our case the epicenter was the realization that the Federal Reserve system is a cartel, and not an agency of the federal government. That single fact alone is, when you think about it, so shocking to most people or it should be, because we have been raised to think that its the government, that theyre looking after us. To think that its no different than an oil cartel or a banana cartel it simply happens to be a banking cartel and that we have given them the monopoly to create the money of the United States, and that they can create it out of nothing and charge interest on nothing all these pieces start falling into place. People realize that this is not in the best interest of the American people, was never designed to be from the get-go, and it has been a means of legalized plunder of the American people. That all stems from the realization that the Federal Reserve is a cartel and not a government agency. I think thats it. L: It occurs to me that maybe the Occupy [Wall Street] people might be interested. That anger that they tapped into and the reason that became a worldwide movement connects directly to what you are saying. On a gut level, a lot of people realize theyve been set up. Things are not for the peoples benefit.Are you finding that other people are listening now who werent listening before, because of things like this? Griffin: Yes, I think thats it exactly. People realize that they are being had; theyve been fooled and deceived over and over and over again. But unfortunately, some of them particularly in the Occupy movement dont have the big picture yet. They resent the fact that there are some very wealthy people in the banking industry and the politicians who are living high, while the average guy on the street is not living well at all. And so they get out there and say, This is capitalism; we must bring down capitalism. They dont realize that what theyre looking at is the difference between the haves and the have-nots, thats not capitalism at all. They dont understand the fact that this is favoritism, this is socialism that we already have. Theyre advocating more government control as though somehow our elected representatives are all saints. If we just had politicians running everything, everything would be fine, they think. They have a lot to learn yet. They keep calling for more of the same bad medicine that has brought us to this point. L: Its egregious for somebody to lose so much money and then get a government bailout and then get a bonus for that, but who gave them the bailout? The government. Griffin: Were back to the realization that the Fed is a cartel; but its more than a cartel. Its a cartel in partnership with the federal government. We really have kind of a duopoly here. The bankers and the politicians have formed this partnership that works very well for both of them. L: The famous revolving door. Griffin: The revolving door. See, in order to create money out of nothing which the Fed does they need an act of Congress to authorize it. So thats when their buddies in Congress say: Okay, we vote another trillion dollars to help the poor people of this country because we want them to have jobs, we want to give them work. Well create a big employment machine, so well need another trillion dollars. But nobody asks, Well, where does the money come from? The politicians raise their hands they vote for the money. They dont have the money, of course, but they vote for the trillion dollars, because were gonna create jobs for people. And so they get elected; theyre big heroes. But people dont realize that then the Federal Reserve says, Okay, Congress has just demanded another trillion dollars. It doesnt have it, so we will create this trillion dollars, because thats our part of the partnership. And we will give it to the government to spend on jobs. Where did the money come from? Well, thats a big mystery, isnt it? It comes out of thin air, which means it floods into the economy, and it pushes down the purchasing power of all the other dollars that are already out there which means inflation. Thats where it comes from. So all of the people who are supposedly being benefited by jobs, or whatever, are paying for this thing out of one pocket. They pull $10 out of this pocket, and they get $1.50 back, and they think, Oh, weve been saved by our great politicians and our bankers. Thats the game. L: So what do you say to the people who say, Well, if thats true, then how come weve seen, roughly, a tripling of the money supply since 2008, and prices havent tripled? Griffin: Good question. Prices have not tripled, thats true. But prices have gone up a lot more than most people think. If you just go look at the cost of groceries, you will realize that prices, real price increases, are much higher than what the government figures indicate. They fudge the numbers. The other reason is that a lot of the money thats been created in this country has been snapped up by other countries around the world, because they want US dollars for their transactions. Believe it or not, their economies are even worse than ours. You take a little country like Zimbabwe, for example. Youve seen pictures of little kids with armloads of trillion-dollar notes; they are going out to buy a sandwich with all of that money. They cannot conduct a realistic financial transaction using Zimbabwe dollars. Its impossible, so any meaningful financial transactions have to be done in something else. So far at least, the US dollar has been the reserve currency of the world. They want US dollars to do transactions. A huge quantity of this newly created money in America has been sent out to all these other countries. L: So were exporting our inflation. Griffin: Were exporting our inflation, yes, exactly. And so those countries are suffering; they are paying terribly for that, though its better than using their own native money because its even worse. That process has saved America for many years, but thats coming to an end now. More and more, other countries do not want US dollars, because they see that their value is going down, down, down. We are coming to the end of that game. Another thing that we have to keep in mind is that a lot of this money being created is going into the coffers of the very wealthy. I wont say just the wealthy, because that makes it sound like its the rich versus the poor. Its the politically favored class. Theyre wealthy not because they have produced something of value, not because they are in manufacturing or they provide some great service. Its because theyve got political connections, and they have lobbyists. L: So its not Apple, its Goldman Sachs. Griffin: [Laughs] Yes, thats it exactly. They have purchased their success through political power, through lobbying activity. Its a terrible thing to realize, but it is the reality of our day that most of the big corporate successes that we see are able to achieve their profits, not through free-enterprise competition, but because they have purchased politicians who have voted for legislation which gives them an advantage. The consumer, once again, is the guy who winds up paying for all that. The point Im trying to make is that the system has changed. We used to live in a free-enterprise, competitive system. Now we are living in a politicized economy, and were living in a world where the wealthiest people are not the producers who produce goods and services for the common man and raise his standard of living, but the ones that have political connections. And that process, if it is not stopped, if it is not reversed, its going to continue leading us in that direction until finally we reach the end of the line, which is totalitarianism. The free markets will be dead, and we will be living in a command economy based on the Soviet model or the Red China model. Thats where were headed. L: So you say theres some small chance we can change that. How do we do that? What possible never mind politically realistic but just what possible path is there? Griffin: Im glad you said Forget realism, lets think about possibilities, because major events in history have often gone against realistic odds. The American Revolution would be a shining example. There was no chance in the world that the American Revolution was going to be won against L: A bunch of ragtag farmers against the worlds most powerful military machine Griffin: Yes, a bunch of ragtag armies oh man, there was no chance. And [George] Washington had no funding. They didnt have ammunition for their rifles, guys didnt have clothes, they were freezing and yet they won the war. So forget realistic. Lets think of possibilities. I think the way this has to be turned around and will be turned around is that first theres the awakening stage. You and I are participating in that right now. Maybe somebody will see this video who might just become a dynamo and carry it to others. And through their efforts and our efforts and the efforts of millions of people we dont even know doing the same thing, we could break out of the mainstream-media confines and get this message out to huge numbers of people. L: Thank goodness for the Internet. Griffin: Thank goodness for the Internet. Thats why the powers that be are trying their best to clamp down on the Internet right now. And they keep scaring us with, Oh, weve got child pornography out there, weve got terrorism, weve got crime and so forth. Weve got to control the Internet for you, to protect you and your children, right? And of course their real concern is that they dont want a free exchange of ideas, and so they are using fear to generate support for their schemes. So yeah, thank God for the Internet for now. We have to fight to keep it free and open. The next step of course is to realize what to do with this information. Weve got to replace those people who are now in positions of power. As long as they are there, we are not going to accomplish anything. Thats the reason, by the way, that we created an organization back in 2002 called Freedom Force International, based on the recognition that we must mobilize people of like mind to go into the positions of authority and responsibility political power and recapture control of the political parties and the elected representatives. Thats where the power rests. Until we get hold of that, theres nothing we can do. But the good news is it doesnt take a lot of people to do that. It doesnt take 51% of the population. History has always been directed by one percent or less the dedicated few that knew what they were doing and were willing to make sacrifices for it and work hard. Go back to the American Revolution again. How many people fought in the American Revolution, two, three percent? Not even that. How many people led the American Revolution, 0.00001%? You know, the intellectual movement the leadership of the whole independence of this country was in the hands of just a few people, but they had positions of authority, and they were respected, and people followed them. We have to and this is the mission of Freedom Force get our people into those positions where we can provide that kind of leadership. L: But not to rain on your parade it was also an idea whose time had come. We came out of the Enlightenment. The kinds of ideas that those leaders stood for were ideas in the ascendancy. They were what the intellectuals of the day were discussing and debating. You had the Enlightenment, you had the beginnings of the scientific revolution, the industrial era and so on. But the ideas in the ascendancy now are Gaianism and revamped versions of socialism. Weve got generations of government education that teaches that youre crazy, Im wrong, and theyre right. Griffin: Very well stated; and that is our obstacle. That is what we must overcome, but I think theres a parallel there. What were talking about here and the ideas that are expressed in the movement of Freedom Force International in our era, is an idea whose time has come. Its here now. People are fed up with the rhetoric of collectivism, socialism, and communism. They are fed up; they know that these are just hollow phrases and slogans. They know that they dont produce the glorious results that they thought when they were schoolchildren. I use that analogy because Im not talking about real schoolchildren; but even adults go through a learning phase when it comes to ideology. You dont have to be a child to learn about ideology. Some of us delayed a long time before we got out of kindergarten and began to really study ideology and political philosophy. My point is we are living now in a time where there is an idea whose time has come. L: I hope youre right. Griffin: Well, Im counting on it. L: At the end of the day, reality matters; and if the system is breaking down, whatever peoples ideologies are, they come to a point where they have to wake up and smell the coffee. The system is coming apart. Griffin: They have to do something. L: And maybe theres an opportunity there before we go completely to the end of the line. Griffin: As you said, these are interesting times. L: Yes. Well, thank you very much. I hope our listeners out there will take action. Griffin: I do, too. 