I think thats wishful thinking. I doubt Hopkins will be available for our 2nd round pick, unless we trade up. I would love those first two rounds. Don't know enough about the other guys to comment, but I do like the positions.

McGruff wrote:3 of 4 picks fail to meet and need at all, and most are unrealistic.

Hawks draft pruely on need?

Not purely, but look at the drafts, man. In 2010 everyone knew we needed a LT and safety, and we got King and ET. In 2011 everyone knew we needed a RT, and we drafted Carp. Last year everyone knew we needed a DE and MLB and we drafted Bruce and Wags.

The names are often unexpected, but e positions early in the draft are usually pretty predictable.

I'm going to assume that Flynn was traded to Jacksonville moving our #57 pick up to #34. That's the only likely way I see us getting Hopkins in round 2. I'd also assume that Seattle had a monster free agency with defensive line additions.

Still, if that mock was justifiable based on a strong showing in free agency, I'd love it.

kearly wrote:I'm going to assume that Flynn was traded to Jacksonville moving our #57 pick up to #34. That's the only likely way I see us getting Hopkins in round 2. I'd also assume that Seattle had a monster free agency with defensive line additions.

Still, if that mock was justifiable based on a strong showing in free agency, I'd love it.

I do not want to keep relying on FA to solve our D-line problems, honestly. Earlier I was doing a big, long post about the average round we drafted all our positional groups of players, and D-line graded out near the worst at 5 (remember the numbers will be skewed with more lower round picks than higher round picks, and I counted FA's as a round , and they didn't even have UDFA's! The highest pick we have spent on D-line (other than our weird LEO position with the Irvin selection) is a 4th rounder . The only guy who has been on the field even consistently is a 7th rounder in Scruggs, and of course our first rounder in Irvin. D-line is the only area our FO hasn't worked it's magic on in the draft (you could argue RB is another, but we have only needed 1 draft pick for a backup RB, and Turbo is fine), and I'd love for that trend to be broken. Our FO hasn't shown they can get it done on the D-line with later round picks, so let's use early rounders instead. Our D-line is downright horrible right now, and is dragging down the whole team, but if we upgrade it we will be near unstoppable.

kearly wrote:I'm going to assume that Flynn was traded to Jacksonville moving our #57 pick up to #34. That's the only likely way I see us getting Hopkins in round 2. I'd also assume that Seattle had a monster free agency with defensive line additions.

Still, if that mock was justifiable based on a strong showing in free agency, I'd love it.

I do not want to keep relying on FA to solve our D-line problems, honestly. Earlier I was doing a big, long post about the average round we drafted all our positional groups of players, and D-line graded out near the worst at 5 (remember the numbers will be skewed with more lower round picks than higher round picks, and I counted FA's as a round , and they didn't even have UDFA's! The highest pick we have spent on D-line (other than our weird LEO position with the Irvin selection) is a 4th rounder . The only guy who has been on the field even consistently is a 7th rounder in Scruggs, and of course our first rounder in Irvin. D-line is the only area our FO hasn't worked it's magic on in the draft (you could argue RB is another, but we have only needed 1 draft pick for a backup RB, and Turbo is fine), and I'd love for that trend to be broken. Our FO hasn't shown they can get it done on the D-line with later round picks, so let's use early rounders instead. Our D-line is downright horrible right now, and is dragging down the whole team, but if we upgrade it we will be near unstoppable.

WTF, they have rebuit the O -LINE, RB'S LB'S, DB'S WR'S. Pete stated explicitly Pass rushers in his last post game after the Atlanta loss, 3 years and almost a totally rebuilt team with the exception of the D-line, even with that they have done their best to keep it from falling apart with the FA's they have brought in. This was a 4 year project, they brought back Quinn who's strength is the D-line.

Horrible D -Line on a defense that was top 10, you cannot sell that bag of goods either. Lighter on the pass rush then all of us want yes.

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kearly wrote:I'm going to assume that Flynn was traded to Jacksonville moving our #57 pick up to #34. That's the only likely way I see us getting Hopkins in round 2. I'd also assume that Seattle had a monster free agency with defensive line additions.

Still, if that mock was justifiable based on a strong showing in free agency, I'd love it.

I do not want to keep relying on FA to solve our D-line problems, honestly. Earlier I was doing a big, long post about the average round we drafted all our positional groups of players, and D-line graded out near the worst at 5 (remember the numbers will be skewed with more lower round picks than higher round picks, and I counted FA's as a round , and they didn't even have UDFA's! The highest pick we have spent on D-line (other than our weird LEO position with the Irvin selection) is a 4th rounder . The only guy who has been on the field even consistently is a 7th rounder in Scruggs, and of course our first rounder in Irvin. D-line is the only area our FO hasn't worked it's magic on in the draft (you could argue RB is another, but we have only needed 1 draft pick for a backup RB, and Turbo is fine), and I'd love for that trend to be broken. Our FO hasn't shown they can get it done on the D-line with later round picks, so let's use early rounders instead. Our D-line is downright horrible right now, and is dragging down the whole team, but if we upgrade it we will be near unstoppable.

WTF, they have rebuit the O -LINE, RB'S LB'S, DB'S WR'S. Pete stated explicitly Pass rushers in his last post game after the Atlanta loss, 3 years and almost a totally rebuilt team with the exception of the D-line, even with that they have done their best to keep it from falling apart with the FA's they have brought in. This was a 4 year project, they brought back Quinn who's strength is the D-line.

Horrible D -Line on a defense that was top 10, you cannot sell that bag of goods either. Lighter on the pass rush then all of us want yes.

I know, I stated that. I truly think that our O-line, RB's, LB's, and DB's are top 10 (with WR's top 20). That's how much Pete and John have done, it is amazing. In fact I think DB's, RB's, and maybe LB's are top 5.

Unfortunately, our D-line is bad. Early in the year it was pretty good, offering a little pass rush and giving NO ground on the run game. I miss that so damn much. In the Atlanta game, it got to the point where our D-line couldn't stop the run and it couldn't generate a pass rush. If we had an average secondary and LB core we would have got massively destroyed. Luckily for us those units are amazing.

And, Pete stated he wanted pass rush last year as well, didn't he? I think he can get it done as long as we pump some high picks in there. All the other units of the team are fine, pump more picks into the line!

You don't need high picks, Porter, Sinclair, Danials, just a couple examples, there are many more, Clemons also, it's all about the desire and skill to learn adapt and speed and quickness. Mostly desire. DT with a push will make our edge guys look twice as good. We may find another edge guy but DT that can demand a double would free up guys or make an offense much more one dimentional such as when we had TJack here, holding a back and TE in to block with our secondary is a win.

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hawksfan515 wrote:I do not want to keep relying on FA to solve our D-line problems, honestly.

My problem with that is this, when I look at what needs to be done to fix this defensive line, I'm not seeing anyone in the draft that I feel great about (that is also realistic). By contrast, this is an unusually strong year in FA for DL, and there could also potentially be some trade options available (Jared Allen, etc).

Seattle has money to spend, and they've found more success on the D-line with veterans than draft picks (Clemons, Brock, Hargrove, Branch, Jones, etc). Irvin is the only active member of this D-line that was drafted by Seattle (I'm counting Howard as inactive). EDIT: Forgot Scruggs, who I like a lot.

But mostly, it's more about not liking this draft. My favorite LEO option is Alex Okafor, and he'd probably produce less next season than Cliff Avril or Osi Umenyiora. He'd also cost a 1st round pick. I'm not seeing any DTs that scream monster pass rushers. There's also the fact that drafted pass rushers are notoriously slow to start. It's not uncommon at all for a pass rusher to take his lumps for years before clicking in his late 20s.

I think the best course of action is to at least form a short term fix in free agency for DL while adding DL draft picks that make sense throughout the draft. If Seattle goes into the draft being forced to take pass rushers with their first two picks, I wouldn't feel very good about their offseason.

Agreed. I think if Seattle is going to strike it rich in this draft at pass rusher, it will probably be with players we've never heard of and who won't have videos on youtube. Quanterus Smith is kind of an example of that. Nobody is talking about him nationally, but he'd have real potential in our scheme.

If we do find ace pass rushers, it will probably like how we found Richard Sherman. Out of the blue in the mid to late rounds. Because I'm not seeing it early. I think the best plan would be to fix the DL in free agency if possible then grab bag pass rushers after the early rounds with a shotgun approach and hope to get a hit or two.

Last edited by kearly on Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

3 tech guys many times yes. But you may find guys on the fringe that can play it that just don't show up because of their supporting cast makes it easy to either run away or double up on them and have a back as protection as well.

This is the area where John, Pete, and Dan will have to return to the no stone left unturned approach.

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Initially was tempted to go with Kearly's comments: but I think Cap$ is at a premium to extend some of our core players with contracts coming up, so more likely to pick up stop-gap low$ FA's at DE/DT (Osi/Starks) and draft at those positions earlier in the draft

I am sorry but i just do not see any DT's in this draft that will fix our problem besides Richardson and Lotulelei. You really think they are going to be there at 25? I sure don't. Unless we trade up to get "OUR GUY" i am just not seeing it in this class. Why i mocked it the way i did. Maybe i should change my Hopkins pick to Da'Rick Rogers from Tennessee Tech. But Ertz would be a great pick up round 1. I just see us drafting a WR in Round 2. And for Round 3 Zavier Gooden OLB i found information on a site that said he has been clocked at 4.37 in the 40. Do i believe it no but we know Carroll wants speed at Leroy Hill's spot hence Malcom Smith coming into play. Round 4 i put Ricky Wagner on there just so we could draft an OT to make sure we have Depth for Breno and Okung. Yes you may be correct in saying there is no one that is a team need in my mock but if you can name a DT besides Richardson and Lotulelei that can collapse the pocket in QB's face then that would be awesome. But i just don't see it in this class. JS seemed really excited about this draft class hearing him talk about how he can't wait to get back with the scouts and get this draft and ranking board figured out. Like i said i know i didn't put us drafting our #1 position of need but i think drafting like that would definitely solidify our team even further.

3 tech guys many times yes. But you may find guys on the fringe that can play it that just don't show up because of their supporting cast makes it easy to either run away or double up on them and have a back as protection as well.

This is the area where John, Pete, and Dan will have to return to the no stone left unturned approach.

Well that approach could work as well.... Maybe instead of loading up the secondary, we take a whole bunch of D-line late. One of them has to be good right?

Looking at prospects there were several that were injured or had some problems. Guys with 4.9 speed to 5.10 which I think is good for a big kid and weighed in between 290 and 325. Those are the types I think we look at, I'm sure they will be gone over by the staff as well. Those are the players that can be steals if we evaluate the talent and situation well.

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chris98251 wrote:Looking at prospects there were several that were injured or had some problems. Guys with 4.9 speed to 5.10 which I think is good for a big kid and weighed in between 290 and 325. Those are the types I think we look at, I'm sure they will be gone over by the staff as well. Those are the players that can be steals if we evaluate the talent and situation well.

Would be awesome to find a gem like that. Our D line desperately needs it.

Kelly.Orr wrote:I am sorry but i just do not see any DT's in this draft that will fix our problem besides Richardson and Lotulelei. You really think they are going to be there at 25? I sure don't. Unless we trade up to get "OUR GUY" i am just not seeing it in this class.

This cannot be stated enough. Starting next season there is no reason to think that the Seahawks are not Superbowl contenders. This is why i'd much rather go out and sign a proven veteran through FA to fill this need. One that will have an immediate impact, and spend our high picks on other key areas of need that'll put this team over the top.

You'd have to think the team will explore both FA and the draft to get the DT help. They could do worse than by adding back a healthy Jones and Branch, but there are others (Melton, Starks, Osi, Avril) who offer a potentially improved but potentially expensive and perhaps with some a more short term solution. At this stage I'm sure Our FO have already explored the film of who might be available.

How bad is the knee injury of Quanterus Smith, will he need a medical redshirt year? What about several of the others like Jordan, Hunt, Ansah, Okafor, etc., etc.? Sadly rookie DEs usually have a period of adjustment to understand their jobs and learn the moves needed to counter talented OTs, does the team want to wait for that to happen? As well, each of the available DTs Richardson, Floyd, Short, Sylvester Williams, has issues that need some work but our new DC is pretty talented at coaching up the DLine.

Let's see what happens with FA, I'm sure this place will be a popular location for many FAs, the draft will be the future.

Until we develop a pass rush that will cause opposing teams to be forced to scheme to defend it we will never be able to consistently take the final step. The interior rush needs improvement. The OLine clearly still needs work.

No diss on anyone in particular, but everyone mocking Keith Pough should go watch him on youtube. Preseason camp-fodder level prospect IMO. I'm not sure he fits what Seattle wants at CB either, he gets pushed around like a little girl by low level competition. We want our corners to be beastly.