This thread will serve as the home for my Shining Force (LoGI) Improved Retranslation project.

For NewcomersThe official US/English translation of Shining Force was poorly done, and inexplicably left out a lot of important context, background and character development that had been present in the original Japanese script for the game. (The GBA remake, Resurrection of the Dark Dragon, featured a much more accurate translation, but also inexplicably added many characters and story elements that... didn't quite fit the tone of the original.)

Two fans from SFC, Mew seeker and Siel, generously spent the time retranslating the entirety of SF1:LoGI from the original Japanese. Their work can be found on these forums, in the Shining Force translation topic. However, because they were intent on delivering an exact-as-possible translation, the resulting English text is a little rough around the edges in some places, and was never edited and reformatted to actually fit into the dialogue boxes in the game itself. Their retranslation was also only published as plain text in forum posts, so you can't experience it for yourself in the context of the game.

My goal here is to solve both of those problems. I am editing, tweaking and smoothing out their retranslated script, and packaging the result into an IPS patch which you can apply to your own copy of the Shining Force US/English ROM file (in BIN format). After applying that patch, you can play the game as its writers would (presumably) have wanted -- with their storyline intact.

I have completed all of Chapters 1 and 2, including the main introduction, main menu, headquarters dialogue, and Nova's battle advice. Besides the overall script changes, "Luke" is now "Lug", "Kane/Cain" is now "Kain", "Marionette" is now "Michi Doll" (because "Mishaela Doll" is too long), and the "Orb of Light" is now the "Shining Orb". The patch also expands the ROM file (in BIN format!) from 1.5MB to 2.5MB to accommodate the new script.

If you have any questions, comments or suggestions, please post them here! I intend to complete this project no matter what (all eight chapters and the epilogue), but any feedback I can get along the way can only make it better.

(Also, this forum doesn't let me post again while I still have the last post, so I can't post updates unless other folks chime in and post as well.)

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Last edited by taleden on Mon Sep 22 2014 3:45am, edited 5 times in total.

Where do you find this? As far as I can tell, the words "cryo" and "frozen" don't appear anywhere in the translation topic, and when I read through it I don't remember seeing anything that specific.

There does seem to be some strong implication that

WARNING: SPOILER!

Max and Kain

are somehow related to the ancients, but whether they're literally from the past or merely descendants or reincarnations or something else doesn't seem to be explicitly specified. It seemed to me there could be a number of interpretations of that backstory.

The capsules in the battle with Chaos are the cryogenic chambers. The image of Lowe carrying Max to the village has Max wearing what looks suspiciously like the underarmor of his promo armor, which in itself is unique in that it has a futuristic feel compared to that of everyone else in the party, and looks very much like Kane's.

What we know from the manga (which is supposedly canon) is that Dark Dragon is a biological weapon, a creation of the ancients. The guy working on the translation of that hasn't gotten to any mention yet to clarify what Darsol is (Ancient, controller for Dark Dragon, etc.).

I have a more thorough argument somewhere, but my brain is deciding to be a butt.

I guess I'm just not convinced that those are really cryo tubes in the Chaos battle. I know that's what RotDD called them, and the artwork in RotDD also embellished them in that direction, but I think that's an unjustified departure from the original intent, so I'm not inclined to accept it as canon.

As far as I can tell there is nothing in the original japanese script which supports that interpretation, and the artwork in LoGI also doesn't really make them look much like cryo tubes. I just pulled it up in SF1Edit to be sure, and it's true that there are rectangular bits of geometry in those positions in the original battlefield, but even allowing for the limitations of 16bit graphics it really doesn't look to me like that original artists were trying to convey "cryo tubes" with that artwork. Some kind of unspecified ancient technology, sure -- there are dials and meters and such around the edges -- but its function could be anything.

As for the imagery of Lowe rescuing Max and the futuristic armor, there are plenty of other ways to explain that besides cryogenic freezing. Some kind of time travel is one easy option, which I actually find less objectionable in the Shining universe than cryogenics (for reasons related to my made-up lore about the Egress spell), although I'm sure others may disagree. Another possibility is that Max and Kain were raised in some enclave somewhere that has kept the old knowledge alive (for exactly this purpose, preserving the bloodline of the ancients and training the warriors who would have to face DD again), and when it was clear that Dark Dragon would be returning during their lifetimes, they were given that old tech armor that had been stored away for 1000 years. I'm sure other folks can think of other possibilities.

Anyway, I don't want to derail this thread too much on our various interpretations of the lore, I was just curious what had led you to that conclusion.

I'd be curious to know where that's sourced, then. The only place I've seen it myself is in RotDD, and although that seems to be considered a more accurate translation from the original japanese compared to LoGI (and in 95% of cases I think it is), there is definitely some stuff in there that is *not* anywhere in the original japanese.

So for my purposes, I don't care about those bits, although I'm still curious how much of it is corroborated by other sources and how much was just made up for RotDD and never used anywhere else.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand, my goal here is to clean up Mew seeker and Seil's translations and turn them into a better english telling of the story from the japanese edition of LoGI. To that end, if anyone has comments or suggestions on the work I've done so far, please chime in!

This clean-up seems more a complete rewrite, as it adds a lot of extraneous stuff and strays quite a bit. Also, the dialogue has everyone sound rather brusque.

All the nitpicks and some clarifications:

WARNING: SPOILER!

Intro

B3: "a great war was fought between the Light and the Darkness" vs "In a time when the pure were called "light" and the wicked were called "darkness"This bit seems more to be based on the localization rather than the source

B4The source doesn't exactly precise Dark Dragon "was unleashed". In fact, since it swore revenge and thus seems to be sentient, it might've rampaged on its own volition.

B6Entombing sounds rather different from sealing

B7: "These old bones need a rest."I quite like this one

B14She originally seems to continue to be reading from the book rather than to be summarizing it. Also, she had a grandpappy :​(Also also, saying "your ancestors" seems a bit odd since it should be her ancestors as well, making saying "our ancestors" probably make more sense.

Chapter 1B4: "Even under heavy blows, you somehow find the strength to fight on." vs "Come at me however you like! Strike with all your might!"

B5Rather than reminding him to breathe, Varios was telling him to remember how he did what he had just done

B8I prefer "on par with" here rather than "as well as", as the latter has somewhat different nuance

B10In the second half, Varios is stating that it'd be nice if Max could be officially accepted as a knight in Guardiana.

B13Lowe originally states he's going to check on the situation at the castle and tells Max to join him later, rather than that he's going to ask around town

B15Book 1:"Path to" rather than "way of"

B18Why this first half about a new assistant? He originally even commends Max for guessing right.

B20

B26The "Let's be fair" part and the rest was commentary by mew seeker and not part of the translation

B27

B28mew seeker's "stranger guy" would probably have been more clear as "outsider"

B33"Nouveau" was part of the name (Mandragora Wine Nouveau)

B47The woman is originally the one saying Gort was once the best and not that Gort merely claimed to be the best.

B63Why suddenly secretive?

B64The aid is originally telling Max there's no way that Max could know what is troubling the king.

B73This is originally the typical "Nothing is unusual." message shown for searching nowhere in particular, but for some reason the localization has it say something related to the telescope here.

B86The king originally seems quite resigned that Max has refused

B92He's originally complaining about distrusting an outsider such as Max

B93&94She's originally asking if Max is as mad as she is about whatever, so when he replies no, she's dejected that she didn't even explain yet

B103Why are all the maids made to address Max condescendingly? They all seem intended to be about as young.

B113: "You might need me!"Lowe originally sounds more confident about it than just a "might"

(From here, I started to skim and skip to the end)

B370: "Where was the ancients' castle?"Max doesn't originally wonder about that and probably doesn't need to, since Guardiana guarding the castle's western gate and Runefaust its eastern gate should already be widely known.

Siel wrote:This clean-up seems more a complete rewrite, as it adds a lot of extraneous stuff and strays quite a bit. Also, the dialogue has everyone sound rather brusque.

Well, let me clarify my intent: my priority is not necessarily to always capture exactly 100% of the style and word choice that you'd get from reading the japanese. You and Mew seeker have already given us that kind of very literal translation, and it is invaluable for understanding the intent of the original story, it's just that it doesn't flow as well when dropped directly into the game.

But that said, it is certainly not my intent to completely rewrite or add a lot of extraneous stuff or stray quite a bit. I *am* trying to stay true to the original storyline as much as possible, although I'm not above taking a bit of artistic license with the phrasing and tone, as long as the facts match the original.

Think of it like an oral tradition -- if you've ever heard a friend tell you a story, and then tell someone else the same story, I'm sure the wording and details were slightly different, even though the essence of the story was the same. That's what I'm trying to do here -- make it sound as good as I can, while retaining the essence of the original.

So, that said, let me respond to your comments:

WARNING: SPOILER!

Intro

B3: "a great war was fought between the Light and the Darkness" vs "In a time when the pure were called "light" and the wicked were called "darkness"

Siel wrote:This bit seems more to be based on the localization rather than the source

I suppose, perhaps. It seemed to me that the really important bit was that there was a big war between good and evil, and there's only the two little lines to get that across, so I phrased it how it sounded natural to me. But if you think it's important to emphasize the "good/evil hearts" angle, I could be convinced.

B4

Siel wrote:The source doesn't exactly precise Dark Dragon "was unleashed". In fact, since it swore revenge and thus seems to be sentient, it might've rampaged on its own volition.

Fair point. I didn't necessarily mean to imply that it was unleashed intentionally, or that it was a lowly minion of anyone else, I just wanted to convey that it wasn't necessarily some ancient evil that had always been there; as far as I can tell its appearance was directly related to the war. If you disagree based on the original japanese, let me know where.

B6

Siel wrote:Entombing sounds rather different from sealing

Well, don't you generally seal a tomb? I guess I don't see the important distinction in this context, and "entomb" sounded cool to me.

B14

Siel wrote:She originally seems to continue to be reading from the book rather than to be summarizing it. Also, she had a grandpappy :​(Also also, saying "your ancestors" seems a bit odd since it should be her ancestors as well, making saying "our ancestors" probably make more sense.

Yeah, I went back and forth about the whole deal with the grandpappy. For the moment I decided that was an unnecessary aside from setting up the telling of the story, and possibly something that has more significance in japanese culture than western, so I dropped it. As for reading, I have tweaked those lines since my posting so you might like it better in the next update, but it also seems to me that having her head down does well enough to imply that she's reading and maybe thinking out loud to herself as she goes. And and, are we sure it's her ancestors? I only put "your" to honor the bit that Mew seeker translated in an earlier line about "this was your (people?) doing". It could be nobody's ancestors, from the player's perspective.

Chapter 1

B4:

Siel wrote:"Even under heavy blows, you somehow find the strength to fight on." vs "Come at me however you like! Strike with all your might!"

That wasn't my translation reference -- I have Mew seeker's "Well Max-dono, Even when trapped from somewhere (?), you put into heart plenty of great energy!". But I am just working forward through that translation thread, was there a different version of chapter 1 later on?

B5

Siel wrote:Rather than reminding him to breathe, Varios was telling him to remember how he did what he had just done

Again, I was looking at Mew seeker's "I didn't lost my breath. (?)" and trying to figure out what breathing had to do with it, so that's what I came up with. In the context of sword training, it seemed to fit. But if you have another translation where Varios is telling Max to remember how he did it, I'm fine with that.

B8

Siel wrote:I prefer "on par with" here rather than "as well as", as the latter has somewhat different nuance

Fair enough.

B10

Siel wrote:In the second half, Varios is stating that it'd be nice if Max could be officially accepted as a knight in Guardiana.

Was that the intent? I was looking at "Even for me in Guardiana, (?) that I could oficially meet such a knight (?) is good but... (?)" and trying to make sense of what he meant, but your interpretation seems just as good. I can change that.

B13

Siel wrote:Lowe originally states he's going to check on the situation at the castle and tells Max to join him later, rather than that he's going to ask around town

Hm, yeah, looking at the translation reference again, I see your point. I guess I wrote that with the thought that Max doesn't see Lowe while asking around, and the town is bigger than the castle, and Max is told to go to the castle by the priest, so it made sense to me that maybe the plan all along was Max-castle, Lowe-town and we just didn't happen to see him around town. But, again, fair point; I'll change it.

B15

Siel wrote:Book 1:"Path to" rather than "way of"

This is partly an issue of text width; "The Way of the Swordmaster" fits with just 2 pixels to spare, while "The Path to Master Swordsmanship" is 36 pixels too long. I thought it was close enough to convey the topic of the book; do you disagree?

Siel wrote:B18Why this first half about a new assistant? He originally even commends Max for guessing right.

You caught me. Just some humor, referencing the nearby woman's line. But if you think it's important that Max guess correctly, I'll concede that point.

Siel wrote:B26The "Let's be fair" part and the rest was commentary by mew seeker and not part of the translation

Ah, a cut-n-paste gaffe. It sure was tedious compiling all that stuff from the forum thread. But that said, since you already mentioned that everyone was too brusque for your taste, and we're already dropping the Priest's joke, why not keep this one? I don't think it changes the overall story in any significant way, that old man isn't a recurring character or anything.

B28

Siel wrote:mew seeker's "stranger guy" would probably have been more clear as "outsider"

Ah, okay. This is going to be one of the hardest parts of this project -- with a reference like "stranger guy" it's hard to know if he meant "person that I am not acquainted with myself" or "person who is totally foreign to this land and a stranger to everyone". So, thanks for the clarification.

B33

Siel wrote:"Nouveau" was part of the name (Mandragora Wine Nouveau)

Ah, I guess I missed that because of the capitalization. Fixed.

B47

Siel wrote:The woman is originally the one saying Gort was once the best and not that Gort merely claimed to be the best.

Hm, okay. I was figuring that based on Gort's boasting to the player at the tavern, it was likely that he'd boasted to his family too, but you're right that the translation doesn't specifically cite Gort in this case. I'll change it.

B63

Siel wrote:Why suddenly secretive?

I guess I figured that someone who was a lifelong adviser to the King probably ought to be a little more careful letting slip to someone like Max with details of a current emergency situation. The player still gets the same information, it just seemed to make the old man more believable to me. You think he should be more open?

B64

Siel wrote:The aid is originally telling Max there's no way that Max could know what is troubling the king.

I guess I thought this conveys the same thing. He's not being outright rude, "You couldn't possibly know", he's just being dismissive, "Oh, really? You think you know? How cute." For someone who's presumably spent his life at court, that angle seemed to fit him while conveying the same opinion.

B73

Siel wrote:This is originally the typical "Nothing is unusual." message shown for searching nowhere in particular, but for some reason the localization has it say something related to the telescope here.

Hm, ok. But as long as the dialogue is already hooked up to searching the telescope, is there any need to make it the generic "nothing here?" Why not have some comment on the telescope being searched?

B86

Siel wrote:The king originally seems quite resigned that Max has refused

Well, true. I can change it if you think it's important to the King's character, it just seemed to me that since reconsidering is a mandatory action for the game to progress anyway, there's no point pretending that the King is content to accept that.

B92

Siel wrote:He's originally complaining about distrusting an outsider such as Max

Ah, okay. That's a nuance that I couldn't tell from the translation, so I was just going off the character judgement based on Max's appearance, from someone who seems pretty haughty. But I see your point that Max's foreignness is relevant here, so I'll put that back in.

B93&94

Siel wrote:She's originally asking if Max is as mad as she is about whatever, so when he replies no, she's dejected that she didn't even explain yet

Why would the maid think Max would be as dejected about Tao? The maid has more of a reason to take offense than Max does. So, I was trying more to emphasize that she's preoccupied with her bitterness and was just hoping to vent to Max, so she's surprised (and offended again) if Max cuts her off.

Siel wrote:Why are all the maids made to address Max condescendingly? They all seem intended to be about as young.

I didn't think the first two maids were condescending at all, and I envisioned them to be younger, close to Tao and Max's age. It's only this third one in the king's bedroom that I took to be much older, hence the more matronly concern for his well-being.

B113: "You might need me!"

Siel wrote:Lowe originally sounds more confident about it than just a "might"

I guess I didn't mean "might" to be a literal expression of uncertainty, I just used it as a figure of speech. But I can change that if you think it's unclear.

Siel wrote:(From here, I started to skim and skip to the end)

Yep, there's a lot of dialogue in just the one chapter. But I appreciate your feedback, so if you ever have the time and inclination, feel free to read it through and let me know what you think of the rest.

B370: "Where was the ancients' castle?"

Siel wrote:Max doesn't originally wonder about that and probably doesn't need to, since Guardiana guarding the castle's western gate and Runefaust its eastern gate should already be widely known.

But, if those are its two gates, where is the castle? Do you think the people of this time already know that the ancient castle is underneath the ocean? Because that's all that's between the two gates as they stand now, as far as we can see. Assuming that people don't know it's under the ocean, and also don't know that it conceals ancient teleporter technology, it seems reasonable to wonder why a "gate to a castle" doesn't visibly seem to lead anywhere.

Thanks for all the great feedback! I have an update to this batch that I'll hopefully post in a few days, which will also include the changes mentioned here.

I see. I was just initially expecting less drastic changes after seeing the terms "retranslation" and "cleaned up".

A lot of my comments weren't really for demanding change, but just me noting certain things, since a bit of freedom indeed seemed to be intended. Responses to responses:

WARNING: SPOILER!

Intro

B3

taleden wrote:I suppose, perhaps. It seemed to me that the really important bit was that there was a big war between good and evil, and there's only the two little lines to get that across, so I phrased it how it sounded natural to me. But if you think it's important to emphasize the "good/evil hearts" angle, I could be convinced.

I suppose it's not particularly important if rigid adherence to the original isn't a main goal. It doesn't make much tangible sense anyway.

B4

taleden wrote:Fair point. I didn't necessarily mean to imply that it was unleashed intentionally, or that it was a lowly minion of anyone else, I just wanted to convey that it wasn't necessarily some ancient evil that had always been there; as far as I can tell its appearance was directly related to the war. If you disagree based on the original japanese, let me know where.

Well, that was just conjecture. I don't think Dark Dragon is touched upon much past the intro(?).

B6

taleden wrote:Well, don't you generally seal a tomb? I guess I don't see the important distinction in this context, and "entomb" sounded cool to me.

I was thinking the sealing in this case was more of the magical sort. I guess the sunken castle could be his tomb.

B14

taleden wrote:Yeah, I went back and forth about the whole deal with the grandpappy. For the moment I decided that was an unnecessary aside from setting up the telling of the story, and possibly something that has more significance in japanese culture than western, so I dropped it. As for reading, I have tweaked those lines since my posting so you might like it better in the next update, but it also seems to me that having her head down does well enough to imply that she's reading and maybe thinking out loud to herself as she goes. And and, are we sure it's her ancestors? I only put "your" to honor the bit that Mew seeker translated in an earlier line about "this was your (people?) doing". It could be nobody's ancestors, from the player's perspective.

The grandpappy seemed to just be a part of the trivial setting set around the book-reading girl and whoever the viewer is. Perhaps a customer visiting a store owned by the grandpappy. So it's not particularly important to the main game either.

As for the your/our/nobody's, I was going along with the "your ancestors" bit you included, since the original only goes as far as to say the book is about a story from a long time ago. For the "this was your (people) doing" part, I think it's actually saying "that is you (plural)", in reference to the aforementioned lineage. Perhaps this "you" is broad enough that the book was confident enough to address any possible reader.

Chapter 1

B4

taleden wrote:That wasn't my translation reference -- I have Mew seeker's "Well Max-dono, Even when trapped from somewhere (?), you put into heart plenty of great energy!". But I am just working forward through that translation thread, was there a different version of chapter 1 later on?

No, I put it together on the spot just now. Unfortunately, it seems mew seeker was quite off in this instance (although the lack of usage of more advanced and specific characters plus the constant line breaks can be confusing). Speaking of which, I should perhaps redo the parts I did years ago soon, since I messed up quite a bit too.

B5

taleden wrote:Again, I was looking at Mew seeker's "I didn't lost my breath. (?)" and trying to figure out what breathing had to do with it, so that's what I came up with. In the context of sword training, it seemed to fit. But if you have another translation where Varios is telling Max to remember how he did it, I'm fine with that.

Well, the term used does mean breath literally, but it's used figuratively in this case to mean something akin to knack or hang (of something). If I were to make up a rough translation for it, "Don't forget how you did it just now!", but for something more clean, I'm not sure. Perhaps "That's the way! Be sure to remember it." or even "Keep that up!".

B15

taleden wrote:This is partly an issue of text width; "The Way of the Swordmaster" fits with just 2 pixels to spare, while "The Path to Master Swordsmanship" is 36 pixels too long. I thought it was close enough to convey the topic of the book; do you disagree?

There should be enough room then if the "The" is dropped. I suppose this isn't too important ultimately.

B18

taleden wrote:You caught me. Just some humor, referencing the nearby woman's line. But if you think it's important that Max guess correctly, I'll concede that point.

B63

taleden wrote:I guess I figured that someone who was a lifelong adviser to the King probably ought to be a little more careful letting slip to someone like Max with details of a current emergency situation. The player still gets the same information, it just seemed to make the old man more believable to me. You think he should be more open?

I'm just a hopeless purist averse to divergence :​(

The aid seems to be boasting about their closeness to the king (claim to know about the king and he throws a fit, admit ignorance and he goes all "Hmph, I figured as much... In my opinion [...]").

B73

taleden wrote:Hm, ok. But as long as the dialogue is already hooked up to searching the telescope, is there any need to make it the generic "nothing here?" Why not have some comment on the telescope being searched?

Yeah, I was just pointing out a discrepancy I found odd.

B86

taleden wrote:Well, true. I can change it if you think it's important to the King's character, it just seemed to me that since reconsidering is a mandatory action for the game to progress anyway, there's no point pretending that the King is content to accept that.

This was again just me noting stuff. It'd perhaps make more sense within the context of Japanese culture, since they have "It can't be helped" as a semi-common expression used when facing circumstances out of their control (to a certain extent).

B93

taleden wrote:Why would the maid think Max would be as dejected about Tao? The maid has more of a reason to take offense than Max does. So, I was trying more to emphasize that she's preoccupied with her bitterness and was just hoping to vent to Max, so she's surprised (and offended again) if Max cuts her off.

The maid is just being silly and looking for people to agree with her anger.

Argh! It makes me so mad! You too, right? Right? Right?>NoBut I didn't even tell you what yet...

B98

taleden wrote:The original was admiring? I don't understand.

Well, it seemed a bit that way to me.

"Ooh, you're really knowledgeable. I like people like that." (worded more cutely)

B370

taleden wrote:But, if those are its two gates, where is the castle? Do you think the people of this time already know that the ancient castle is underneath the ocean? Because that's all that's between the two gates as they stand now, as far as we can see. Assuming that people don't know it's under the ocean, and also don't know that it conceals ancient teleporter technology, it seems reasonable to wonder why a "gate to a castle" doesn't visibly seem to lead anywhere.

I suppose there is that angle and it is a question that'd fit the more expansive question bag you made it into.

As a bonus, here's a slightly clearer translation of this part:Max has begun his journey due to Runefaust's invasion. What is supposed to be in the Castle of the Ancients? In order to protect its seal... he set out on this fateful journey. Just what could the Legacy of the Gods mentioned by the king, on the verge of death, be? Max did not yet know that this strange journey would alter even the fate of the world.

Siel wrote:I see. I was just initially expecting less drastic changes after seeing the terms "retranslation" and "cleaned up".

I guess I could call it an "adaptation" or somesuch. But like you say, it depends how much of a hopeless purist you are.

So I guess this is as good a time as any to put the question to the forums -- would folks rather see the kind of adaptation I've started here, which (hopefully) tells the same story but may depart slightly on small details for the sake of style/flow/storytelling? Or would you fine folks rather see a much more literal cleanup which preserves as much of the translators' phrasing and word choice as possible, at the cost of sometimes sounding a bit more stilted in the context of a game narrative?

My inclination is clearly to the former, and after some revisions I'm hoping I can demonstrate the potential of that approach. But if the community is decidedly against my philosphy, that would be good to know now, before going through the other seven chapters doing something nobody wants.

And now, responses to responses to responses!

WARNING: SPOILER!

Intro

B3

Siel wrote:I suppose it's not particularly important if rigid adherence to the original isn't a main goal. It doesn't make much tangible sense anyway.

As a compromise, how about something like:

A thousand years ago,a great war was fought...between the forces of Lightand the servants of Darkness.

I kind of liked the nice succinct original opener ("A thousand years ago...") but if we use the second line of that screen to mention the war, then we have more room in the next screen to put more emphasis on the individuals who were serving the light/darkness, rather than describing the war as being directly between light and darkness, as if there were no mortal participants.

B4

Siel wrote:Well, that was just conjecture. I don't think Dark Dragon is touched upon much past the intro(?).

My recollection is that toward the end of the game, it becomes more clear that the appearance of Dark Dragon was somehow caused by the folly/pride/whatever of the ancients. I think you're right that the details of exactly who or how or why are never given (that's a job for a proper prequel fanfic), but I sure got the impression that the ancients were somehow at fault. That is, I thought Dark Dragon was one of the consequences of the behavior or warring of the ancients, rather than the unprovoked cause of this ancient war. Does that make sense? I could be way off here, just tossing out what I remember thinking at the time.

B6

Siel wrote:I was thinking the sealing in this case was more of the magical sort. I guess the sunken castle could be his tomb.

Yeah, I was envisioning that it was kind of both. The ancients clearly made use of both technology and magic (insofar as we can draw a line between them, really) so I figured, the banishment of DD was similar. A bit of technological containment, plus some magical sealing.

B14

Siel wrote:The grandpappy seemed to just be a part of the trivial setting set around the book-reading girl and whoever the viewer is. Perhaps a customer visiting a store owned by the grandpappy. So it's not particularly important to the main game either.

My thought too. And I definitely understand that this kind of editorial decision may not sit well with diehard purists, but in the spirit of "how would this have been written if the original authors had been western and spoke english natively", it seemed out of place, and didn't seem important to the real story being told, so I thought it safe to cut. But again, if what people want is diehard purism, then nothing should be cut, no matter how unintuitive it seems to a western mindset.

Chapter 1

B4

Siel wrote:No, I put it together on the spot just now.

Well, I'm happy to update my reference and adjust the line accordingly. And if you ever get around to retranslating or clarifying anything else, I'll take that too.

B15

Siel wrote:

taleden wrote:This is partly an issue of text width; "The Way of the Swordmaster" fits with just 2 pixels to spare, while "The Path to Master Swordsmanship" is 36 pixels too long. I thought it was close enough to convey the topic of the book; do you disagree?

There should be enough room then if the "The" is dropped. I suppose this isn't too important ultimately.

There is room then, yes, but only if I drop the quotation marks too. I'd been putting them back in on book titles since the japanese seemed to be formatted that way, and it looked nice to differentiate the two titles from the third line.

B63

Siel wrote:The aid seems to be boasting about their closeness to the king (claim to know about the king and he throws a fit, admit ignorance and he goes all "Hmph, I figured as much... In my opinion [...]").

Yeah, that's a fair read of his character; just as good as mine, certainly. I can tinker with that.

B86

Siel wrote:This was again just me noting stuff. It'd perhaps make more sense within the context of Japanese culture, since they have "It can't be helped" as a semi-common expression used when facing circumstances out of their control (to a certain extent).

The cultural influences are definitely interesting. I'll try to rephrase that to restore the more consigned attitude.

B98

Siel wrote:

taleden wrote:The original was admiring? I don't understand.

Well, it seemed a bit that way to me.

"Ooh, you're really knowledgeable. I like people like that." (worded more cutely)

Oh, I misunderstood. I thought you meant the one talking about Tao. Yeah, the second one is impressed if you've heard of Manarina, but I thought that was retained in my version. It is text, though, so it will come off differently to every reader. I can try to bring that out a bit more.

B370

Siel wrote:I suppose there is that angle and it is a question that'd fit the more expansive question bag you made it into.

As a bonus, here's a slightly clearer translation of this part:Max has begun his journey due to Runefaust's invasion. What is supposed to be in the Castle of the Ancients? In order to protect its seal... he set out on this fateful journey. Just what could the Legacy of the Gods mentioned by the king, on the verge of death, be? Max did not yet know that this strange journey would alter even the fate of the world.

Thanks for the clarification, I'll drop that in and tinker with it.

EDIT: I posted an updated version of chapter 1 a few days ago, but I'm not allowed to post the details of what changed until somebody else posts.

Never fizzled out, just no interest from people. Also, issues from mods here left me with the decision to leave. What i did was clean up the text and did my best to keep it true to the original japanese text while making it proper english.

Dr. Doom wrote:Never fizzled out, just no interest from people. Also, issues from mods here left me with the decision to leave. What i did was clean up the text and did my best to keep it true to the original japanese text while making it proper english.

Ah. Yeah, not seeing a flood of interest here either, although there's so little traffic it's hard to tell. But it sounds like our philosophies were slightly different anyway; I'm somewhat less concerned with absolute literal adherence to the japanese, and more interested in telling the story as naturally and fluidly in english as possible, while still honoring the original intent. So, I dunno. If people show up here and seem interested, great; if not, maybe I'll just see it through anyway and release a patch.

This update is primarily brought to you by rubixcuber's super awesome very cool SF1Edit, whose extensive capabilities will make this whole project much easier for me. Specifically:

I now have the exact pixel widths of each character in the dialogue font, so I can calculate exactly how much text will fit on each line of dialogue, and in each three-line window.

I've just finished going back through the entirety of the intro and chapter 1, reformatting everything to fit and flow nicely in-game. This also includes the codes to wait for a button press after each set of 3 lines, and some delay codes to add brief pauses and hesitations at opportune times in many lines of dialogue.

I have set up a system to easily dump my modified script into a file that SF1Edit can import, so I've been able to play-test all of my changes and make sure they look and feel right in-game. Hopefully this also means I won't need the help of a ROM hacker after all, since I can patch the script myself with SF1Edit and generate a patch from my modified ROM file.

While updating all of my new dialogue with the proper lengths and formatting codes, I also took the opportunity to just do some general editing. A number of lines sound better (to me anyway), and many more have been adjusted to more closely match the original translation from japanese.

A number of other changes were made as a result of Siel's great feedback from earlier in this thread.

Also note that I'm using a set of unused characters (not found in the game font) to represent the various special dialogue codes, because I find them easier to work with. So if you see odd punctuation in those spreadsheets, here's what's what:

"@" [Hero] The name of the hero character

"~" [Delay1] A short pause or delay, which can also be skipped by pressing/holding a button

"|" [Delay2] A longer delay, which cannot be skipped

"^" [Wait2] Show the "continue arrow" in the lower-right corner of the box, and wait for the player to press a button before continuing

"<" [Num] Placeholder for a number, i.e. damage dealt, XP gained, etc

">" [Name] Placeholder for a character's name besides the hero, i.e. someone joining the force

"{" [Item] Placeholder for an item name, i.e. when received or used

"}" [Spell] Placeholder for a spell name, i.e. when learned or cast

"\" [Class] Placeholder for a class abbreviation, i.e. when someone is promoted

"=" [Dict] No idea what this technically does, but it appears in the line where the King of Guardiana dies; maybe it's what makes his eyes close?

As always, please post any comments or suggestions. The google docs should also be open to comments from anyone who has the link, so feel free to add notes there if that's easier.

This IPS patch can be applied to the official US/English version of the Shining Force ROM (in BIN format). It expands the ROM from 1.5mb to 2.5mb to accommodate the uncompressed modified script, changes Luke's name to Luug (Lug in the next update) to more closely match the intended pronunciation, and of course modifies the game script and dialogue.

From here on, updates will be numbered according to the last complete chapter that they cover, and the latest revision of that chapter. This being the third published revision of chapter 1, the current version is 1.3. The introduction, main menu, Nova's battle advice and force members' HQ lines are also included.

As always, feedback is welcome. If anyone would prefer to see the latest updates in the multi-column spreadsheet format, let me know and I'll put up new google drive documents.

And if nothing else, if you'd like to see this project continue, at least post once for filler so that I'm allowed to post again when the next update is ready.

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Last edited by taleden on Wed Sep 17 2014 4:41am, edited 1 time in total.

Omega Entity wrote:Should only be one 'u' in Lug. Unless that's just a typo in the post.

Do you think it's intended to be pronounced "lug" as in "lug nut", rhyming with "slug"? Because that's what I think when I see "Lug", even though that is the spelling in SF:CD.

But, as I recall, the voiceover in the SF:CD intro pronounces it like "loog", rhyming with "loon". That is, I thought "Luke" was wrong not because of the vowel (long "oo" vs. short "uh"), but because of the final consonant (unvoiced stop "k" should have been a voiced stop "g").

So with that in mind, I figured Luug would indicate the correct pronunciation better than "Lug." But if I'm wrong about that pronunciation, I'm happy to be corrected.