Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

I do not understand the desire for new cars and piles of money. I jwant to be able to oob and lucid dream as easily I daydream and fall asleep.

Quoting: Jesse Sovoda

The former is easily measured the latter is less-so.

Why not make it more specific? For example,

"I can go out of my body to ______ after I ________ and breath rhythmically for _______ minutes."

When you define it...

Quoting: Chaol

I see what you're saying and agree. Thank you. I 've not been specific enough.

[snips]

Now, if I could just oob/ld as easily as recalling my phone number... I'd be one happy dude.

I guess on top of that, I'd like to interact more with ghosts/shadows. I've seen two of them in the last 3 years and it'd be interesting to have the option to interact with them more, maybe have a conversation etc...

Quoting: Jesse Sovoda

The reason we cannot is because it would require us to become a different kind of human being.

Do you realise what these abilities would mean for your current life? Would you be ready for constant sennight sickliness when rapidly changing betwixt worlds? Seeing things that the person next to you does not see?

You'd have to change your whole personhood to get to that state.

Think about what it would mean and you're half-way there.

Quoting: Chaol

I do think about it, often. I wonder if I'd have to "die" or get(pretend to be?) mentally "insane" in the objective perspective to obtain what I am looking for. I am feeling out a good balance of subjective "inter-dimensional" travel and living a "normal" life. I'd like to allow my wife (a devout atheist) and family(christian based apatheists) to remain relevant. I do see them slowly changing perspective as I do (since they are values of myself)... and where they had previously said I was misunderstanding reality, they're beginning to show a glimmer of understanding.

Quoting: Jesse Sovoda

The "I'd like to allow my wife (a devout atheist) and family(christian based apatheists) to remain relevant." part may be quite difficult, unless of course you're willing to change an entire world (this one) to bring them closer to your new one.

Or you can find a way to do it in ways that are relevant to them. Making it a game, for example.

Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

Hi. It sounds fine. No changes. But I would like to hear your Interaction step.

Quoting: Chaol

The interaction will be as follows: I will place the object in a high-traffic area of the classroom that will force passers-by to see it and wonder, "What is THAT thing??", "Who put it there?",and make it highly likely that they will pick it up for more direct interaction. Also, it will naturally be interacting with in a newly unnatural way with its natural environment. Also, it will be interacting in entirely new ways with my home environment on the days that I take it out of the technical room...plus the car ride, backpack and every where in be twixt.

The danger is that one or more of the instructors will throw it away.

Chaol, what do you think about this interaction?

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1407931

No need to define how it will interact. Just with what.

Keep in mind it uses the space of Potential Energy so the more you pre-determine its interactions the more you may be sub-consciously limiting your results.

Keep in mind that this element is the most important, because the Symbol develops a relationship with your perspective here.

It doesn't matter if the symbol is thrown away by an instructor because it still counts as an interaction. (Interactions are neutral.)

hope this helps!

Quoting: Chaol

So would it work if we developed several symbols and just left them around different places? And we need to define those spaces before leaving them there?

Quoting: Unit3

This occurred to me, too. I thought of how companies will have pens made up with their logo on it and give them away. Then that pen is disbursed to many places, interacting in many ways in many spaces. The only thing I was unsure of was the ongoing Structure around it. Nonetheless, we can see examples of successful "branding" everywhere. This may be different from the Genius, but mentioning it any way...

Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

I do not understand the desire for new cars and piles of money. I jwant to be able to oob and lucid dream as easily I daydream and fall asleep.

Quoting: Jesse Sovoda

The former is easily measured the latter is less-so.

Why not make it more specific? For example,

"I can go out of my body to ______ after I ________ and breath rhythmically for _______ minutes."

When you define it...

Quoting: Chaol

I see what you're saying and agree. Thank you. I 've not been specific enough.

[snips]

Now, if I could just oob/ld as easily as recalling my phone number... I'd be one happy dude.

I guess on top of that, I'd like to interact more with ghosts/shadows. I've seen two of them in the last 3 years and it'd be interesting to have the option to interact with them more, maybe have a conversation etc...

Quoting: Jesse Sovoda

The reason we cannot is because it would require us to become a different kind of human being.

Do you realise what these abilities would mean for your current life? Would you be ready for constant sennight sickliness when rapidly changing betwixt worlds? Seeing things that the person next to you does not see?

You'd have to change your whole personhood to get to that state.

Think about what it would mean and you're half-way there.

Quoting: Chaol

I do think about it, often. I wonder if I'd have to "die" or get(pretend to be?) mentally "insane" in the objective perspective to obtain what I am looking for. I am feeling out a good balance of subjective "inter-dimensional" travel and living a "normal" life. I'd like to allow my wife (a devout atheist) and family(christian based apatheists) to remain relevant. I do see them slowly changing perspective as I do (since they are values of myself)... and where they had previously said I was misunderstanding reality, they're beginning to show a glimmer of understanding.

Quoting: Jesse Sovoda

The "I'd like to allow my wife (a devout atheist) and family(christian based apatheists) to remain relevant." part may be quite difficult, unless of course you're willing to change an entire world (this one) to bring them closer to your new one.

Or you can find a way to do it in ways that are relevant to them. Making it a game, for example.

Quoting: Chaol

My Wife and Family, as I perceive them "here" are already recurring characters in my outer-realm experience. Similar to the way the cast followed Dorothy to Oz(a realm she experienced in a spontaneous oob). Repeating patterns of relevancy seen through a kaleidoscope of perspective.

Consider the possibility that you order yourself into being from chaos... You do this, always, in all ways. This "ordering" has resulted in the possibilities you're experiencing, here, now. In each experience you've ever had, more and more of "this" reality is generated logically from your previous experience. Your observation of this unfolding of order and chaos is reality.

Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

This occurred to me, too. I thought of how companies will have pens made up with their logo on it and give them away. Then that pen is disbursed to many places, interacting in many ways in many spaces. The only thing I was unsure of was the ongoing Structure around it. Nonetheless, we can see examples of successful "branding" everywhere. This may be different from the Genius, but mentioning it any way...

---was *choco-mintwill now be:

---***

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 918001

Nice insight.

There is no where the Genius is not used.

Everything that exists is one of the four elements and "follows" the same steps that we here illustrate.

Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

Okay, this is my second attempt to recap. Last time, it wouldn't post because of server trouble. ;o(

Major Man suggested a group project. It was decided at that time it would be $50 million USD for each participant. Then Chaol told us we needed a logical idea to move into this perspective.

The only idea submitted so far was for a consciousness research group. No votes have been made either way and no new ideas have been suggested. (Maybe the website you guys are discussing?)

I'm wondering if one reason for the stalemate is if we think once we get the funds, do we actually have to form the research group or the website? I think it's a good question and look forward to hearing from Chaol on this.

In the meantime, Genius plans are being submitted and are for various ideas...group and/or individual perspectives.

Quoting: Unit3

It seems that the consciousness research group is something that was to be formed after each participant received $50MM USD, whereas

the website (regarding prizes) is something that is along the path to $50MM for each.

If this is the case then in the former, there is appears to be a hole in the logical narrative. The question I would ask is how likely is it that each participant would have $50MM to donate to the research facility?

Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

Yes. There are no 'good' or 'bad' interactions.

The symbol should be neutral (as free of pre-extant value as you think possible)

Potential Energy is inherently neutral.

Logic is neutral because it does not matter what it is.

And Interactions are neutral because there's only the objective values created in relationships. (How these are perceived depends on perspective.)

Quoting: Chaol

Chaol, this'll be my last one for today. :)

Given your reply above (and all times prior) as to what symbols 'are' and 'are not' supposed to represent....would it not be better to just continually be creating symbols and the subsequent Genius Relationary steps without regard to any thing in particular. This way, someone like Gespenst, who can't consciously pin down any physical desires, can just start making symbols and steps and haphazardly (sub-consciously) fall into the exact thing he wanted without being aware of it before hand.

Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

Yes. There are no 'good' or 'bad' interactions.

The symbol should be neutral (as free of pre-extant value as you think possible)

Potential Energy is inherently neutral.

Logic is neutral because it does not matter what it is.

And Interactions are neutral because there's only the objective values created in relationships. (How these are perceived depends on perspective.)

Quoting: Chaol

Chaol, this'll be my last one for today. :)

Given your reply above (and all times prior) as to what symbols 'are' and 'are not' supposed to represent....would it not be better to just continually be creating symbols and the subsequent Genius Relationary steps without regard to any thing in particular. This way, someone like Gespenst, who can't consciously pin down any physical desires, can just start making symbols and steps and haphazardly (sub-consciously) fall into the exact thing he wanted without being aware of it before hand.

??? does my question make sense

Thanks again, Chaol. You're aces!

Quoting: X Won 1407931

Yes, it makes sense. And it can be done.

The difficult part, though, is determining what the symbol is (loosely) for so that it could be discarded or interactions enhanced if need be.

Eventually, though, I'm hoping some of us will get to the point of creating the symbols on-the-fly (mentally) so this could be a logical path to there.

Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

Chaol,

Based on your flags, you really get around. Would you mind placing my red arrow with an X on the tail on some first tee boxes on your travels?

Thanks.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5877556

The flags are near-meaningless. I just like to play with colors. They change because of the proxy servers that I use to access this site.

But can you define your exercise?

Quoting: Chaol

I have asked the group to work with me. My symbol for earning >$5M per year for 10 years on the PGA Tour is a red arrow with an X for a tail. We are mentally placing it on the first tee box of golf courses so it can interact with all of the golfers that play the courses.

Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

Yes, it makes sense. And it can be done.

The difficult part, though, is determining what the symbol is (loosely) for so that it could be discarded or interactions enhanced if need be.

Eventually, though, I'm hoping some of us will get to the point of creating the symbols on-the-fly (mentally) so this could be a logical path to there.

Quoting: Chaol

I must have misunderstood before when you made comments that the symbol was to be free of extant representation. For instance, when I asked whether it was better for my symbol to represent my new position, or the paperwork associated with the new position, I understood you to say that it should be free of any 'meaning'. Meaning that I should not have associated anything about any thing of the "position" or any part there in and just make a symbol (with the subsequent steps) and let my subconscious fill in the rest.

So now, I take it to mean that the symbol should be free of any conscious relation, but that it should have some semblance of what we were "intending" with the creation of the symbol (and steps) in the first place?

So that would mean that I shouldn't just start creating symbols (and steps) willy-nilly without having any semblance of what I was intending for each symbol to bring about [in my perception] in the first place?

Again, thanks so much for your input. THIS is really my last one I'll bother you with today.

Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

Chaol,

Based on your flags, you really get around. Would you mind placing my red arrow with an X on the tail on some first tee boxes on your travels?

Thanks.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5877556

The flags are near-meaningless. I just like to play with colors. They change because of the proxy servers that I use to access this site.

But can you define your exercise?

Quoting: Chaol

I have asked the group to work with me. My symbol for earning >$5M per year for 10 years on the PGA Tour is a red arrow with an X for a tail. We are mentally placing it on the first tee box of golf courses so it can interact with all of the golfers that play the courses.

Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

[snips]

So now, I take it to mean that the symbol should be free of any conscious relation, but that it should have some semblance of what we were "intending" with the creation of the symbol (and steps) in the first place?

So that would mean that I shouldn't just start creating symbols (and steps) willy-nilly without having any semblance of what I was intending for each symbol to bring about [in my perception] in the first place?

Again, thanks so much for your input. THIS is really my last one I'll bother you with today.

Quoting: X Won 1407931

... by all means, create symbols willy-nilly.

But keep to the steps we've pointed out here.

No need for semblance. It's better for there not to be. Your sub-conscious will take care of it. (No need to force the semblance, as it will just confuse things.)

Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

Yes. There are no 'good' or 'bad' interactions.

The symbol should be neutral (as free of pre-extant value as you think possible)

Potential Energy is inherently neutral.

Logic is neutral because it does not matter what it is.

And Interactions are neutral because there's only the objective values created in relationships. (How these are perceived depends on perspective.)

Quoting: Chaol

Chaol, this'll be my last one for today. :)

Given your reply above (and all times prior) as to what symbols 'are' and 'are not' supposed to represent....would it not be better to just continually be creating symbols and the subsequent Genius Relationary steps without regard to any thing in particular. This way, someone like Gespenst, who can't consciously pin down any physical desires, can just start making symbols and steps and haphazardly (sub-consciously) fall into the exact thing he wanted without being aware of it before hand.

??? does my question make sense

Thanks again, Chaol. You're aces!

Quoting: X Won 1407931

Yes, it makes sense. And it can be done.

The difficult part, though, is determining what the symbol is (loosely) for so that it could be discarded or interactions enhanced if need be.

Eventually, though, I'm hoping some of us will get to the point of creating the symbols on-the-fly (mentally) so this could be a logical path to there.

Quoting: Chaol

Aha!

1) So once we determine what the symbol is for, we can make the symbols mentally?

2) And the symbols can change as we progress?

3) So what the symbol is for, is permanent?

4)The symbol is changeable?

5) And how are interactions enhanced? (by changing the symbol?)

"We are the music makers. And we are the dreamers of dreams." Willy Wonka

Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

Chaol,

Based on your flags, you really get around. Would you mind placing my red arrow with an X on the tail on some first tee boxes on your travels?

Thanks.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 5877556

The flags are near-meaningless. I just like to play with colors. They change because of the proxy servers that I use to access this site.

But can you define your exercise?

Quoting: Chaol

I have asked the group to work with me. My symbol for earning >$5M per year for 10 years on the PGA Tour is a red arrow with an X for a tail. We are mentally placing it on the first tee box of golf courses so it can interact with all of the golfers that play the courses.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1491393

May I ask, what does the arrow or 'X' represent?

Quoting: Chaol

Nothing in particular. It's just a symbol that came to mind. I wrapped it in red electrical tape. When i visualized myself going to the teebox it was the object that appeared in my hand so i placed it down. Now i have and mentally placed it on numerous tee boxes.

Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

Nothing in particular. It's just a symbol that came to mind. I wrapped it in red electrical tape. When i visualized myself going to the teebox it was the object that appeared in my hand so i placed it down. Now i have and mentally placed it on numerous tee boxes.

Re: Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.

What if a non-profit consciousness research group is legally formed? Then is it logical?

Quoting: Unit3

If the intention was to enrich participants by USD $50 million, I don't see how it would make sense in different perspectives.

Care to illustrate how?

Quoting: Chaol

Because $150 million USD is needed for the land, buildings, equipment and salaries.

Quoting: Unit3

Then an other route may likely be found (by your sub-conscious) that uses less energy. The money could come from other sources, for example. (It also assumes that everyone would give all or most of the money to the research facility.)

The idea is to make it so that the only logical way to get to your destination is to take a route that your intention is on.

Imagine you're Bill Gates and it's the 1980s. You have only 1 wish. Do you:

1) Wish that Microsoft become the biggest software company in the world, or

2) create a plan for you to perceive your software being installed on PC after PC?

And as the space for interaction expands in perspective (the size of hard drives) so do the interactions with the software.

The problem with #1 is that you have not symbolized your intentions to your sub-conscious, so it does not know what you want to perceive. Your sub-conscious does not speak English. It communicates metaphorically and, thus, creates your reality through symbology.