Standards that Divide Believers

Since our readership has rapidly expanded over the past few years, and especially during the past few months, we want to take some time this summer to draw attention to earlier articles for those who may have missed them. Today's article was among those from our first few months and was published on Recovering Grace in September of 2011.

Ask any church leader who has come into contact with Gothard followers, and far too often you will hear about stories of divisions caused within churches, rather than people who are known for their love or unity.

Many instances of division can be traced directly back to the teachings of Bill Gothard through the Institute in Basic Life Principles, and his heavy emphasis on “Godly standards.” There is nothing wrong in and of itself with having Godly standards–after all, we are called to be holy and pursue holiness in our lives. However, there is something wrong when someone creates extra-biblical rules that they claim as “God’s standards” and enforce them on other believers. These extra-biblical “standards,” which are taught by Gothard with the authority of biblical doctrine, are referred to in Scripture as “commandments of men,” not standards of God. [1]

The Apostle Paul also referred to these teachings in the book of Colossians as “basic principles of the world” [Ironically, the only time the term “basic principles” is used in Scripture, it’s used to speak about false teachings and doctrines of men]:

“Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.” [2]

These human commands and teachings essentially create ranks within Christianity that Christ has not sanctioned. The top rank, who are seen by themselves as the more spiritual Christians, hold to rigorous teachings on things such as fasting, abstaining from certain foods, and avoiding certain ungodly people; and the lower rank are viewed as inferior Christians, who either can’t or won’t keep up with the same “standards of holiness.”

So what does one do when encountering a believer with lower standards? Bill Gothard does not just imply confrontation, but he flat-out encourages it:

“If you consistently fail to prayerfully and lovingly confront friends who violate Godly standards, you can be sure that you have a fearful heart. Here are some examples of such violations: Stealing the heart of a girl and disregarding her father; Listening to sensual, worldly music that is contrary to God’s nature; Visiting places of worldly amusement (e.g., theaters);….Reading sensual books or magazines–including romance novels.”

Gothard goes on to explain several reasons why people might be tempted to not confront others who violate these “Godly standards”:

“Perhaps you are afraid to expose their sin because you are doing the same things, which are reinforced when you keep company with them. “Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners” (I Corinthians 15:33). “He that walketh with wise men shall be wise: but a companion of fools shall be destroyed” (Proverbs 13:20).” [3]

So basically, Gothard is saying that you MUST confront someone who violates his criteria for Godly standards, and anyone who disagrees with these humanly-imposed standards is probably also corrupted by sin, and/or is a companion of fools who will be destroyed. While Scripture does teach the necessity of confronting sin, it is never clearly taught in Scripture that dating a girl without her father’s prior approval is equivalent to stealing, or that listening to worldly music and reading romance novels are automatically sins against God. But Gothard takes these personal convictions and elevates them to a Scriptural standard that ALL believers should follow, encouraging confrontation when these extra-biblical rules are not lived out in fellow believers’ lives.

Is it any wonder that many people who sit under these teachings create divisions within the body of Christ? If other believers don’t embrace the same standards, they are often shunned for having lower standards and not submitting to “God’s best.” This not only creates rifts in personal relationships, but within local churches as well, as the standards over music, dress, courtship, child-rearing, educational decisions, Bible translations, and more are seen as worthy enough to create division within the church, often resulting in attempts to fire a pastor or expel a fellow brother from fellowship over non-conformity to these “standards.”

Former Advanced Training Institute (ATI) students can relate countless stories of the collateral damage done to churches, youth groups, and families by the efforts of well-meaning Gothardites in their zeal to spread these higher standards. Here are just three examples I know of personally:

–One ATI student’s parents led the praise and worship at their church. They laid down the law about using hymns only, as opposed to choruses and anything with a “rock beat.” It turned into a huge ordeal and the church split in half.

–Another student’s family caused a church to split over wanting to teach Gothard’s materials in the adult Sunday school class. After the Senior Pastor expressed concern, they took five like-minded families and started their own church the next Sunday.

–In yet another student’s story, the actions of another family attempting to spread Gothard’s teachings in their church led to the resignation of the associate pastor, the departure of the problematic ATI father/family, and finally the resignation of the senior pastor as the church reeled from a split.

While many ATI families are NOT like this, many students recount the constant church-hopping they were subjected to throughout their growing-up years, as their parents continually looked for the “perfect church” with similar teaching and music standards. They lament the lack of spiritual roots they were able to develop because their families were constantly “on the move” from church to church. Fine-tuned, extra-biblical standards too often create a misguided rationale for breaking fellowship, and the resulting strife often follows a person or family from church to church.

The early church encountered similar standard-related strife. In Galatians 2:11-21, Paul opposed Peter to his face because he had bought into the wrong “standard.” Peter believed that both Jews and Gentiles were equal in Christ, but in a moment of weakness, he was swayed by the Judaizers in separating themselves from their fellow brothers in Christ who did not share the same “high standards” of circumcision and dietary laws as they did. The Judaizers knew that this method of ranking Christian commitment and shunning believers who didn’t measure up to their own standards was both powerful and effective, and they were able to use it to sway many to their side. Paul warned, “Those people are zealous to win you over, but for no good. What they want is to alienate you from us, so that you may be zealous for them.”[4]

This type of alienation is unbiblical at best. Any form of shunning fellow believers with “lower standards” flies in the very face of the gospel, which makes all equal before God through faith in Christ. Philip Graham Ryken puts it this way, “We must have fellowship with anyone and everyone who is in fellowship with God through faith in Jesus Christ. If we refuse to have fellowship with them, then our actions deny the gospel. We are making a distinction that God himself does not make. We are adding some qualification to the only thing God requires, which is faith in Jesus Christ.” [5]

Scripture calls us to unity within the body of Christ, not to unnecessary divisions based on human commands and teachings. There is never any justification for alienating other believers based on lower standards. As believers, we are called to love each other and work for the peace of the church. “Make every effort to keep the unity of the spirit through the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called—one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.”[6]

This is not to suggest that there are not issues worth fighting for in the church, or genuine sin that should not be confronted. Good Christians will often disagree on personal convictions and standards, and sometimes strongly. But love should always be our highest rule. Love is what we should be known for. If we are worried about others who do not hold to our own standards of godliness, let us first examine our own path to make sure we are not following the commandments of men. Then let us demonstrate the truth with love, not through shunning or alienation.

FOOTNOTES:

1. “These people draw near to me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. And in vain they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.” (Matthew 15:8-9)

2. Colossians 2:20-23

3. Journey to the Heart booklet (IBLP Publications), 18

4. Galatians 4:17

5. Philip Graham Ryken, Galatians (P&R Publishing, 2005), 60

6. Ephesians 4:3-6

All articles on this site reflect the views of the author(s) and do not necessarily reflect the views of other Recovering Grace contributors or the leadership of the site. Students who have survived Gothardism tend to end up at a wide variety of places on the spiritual and theological spectrum, thus the diversity of opinions expressed on this website reflects that. For our official statement of beliefs, click here.

About the author

Bev was raised in a Christian family that embraced many of the teachings of Bill Gothard. Her family joined the Advanced Training Institute in 1989, and she spent her teen years pursuing various ministry opportunities through the Institute, including three months in Moscow and one year at the Indianapolis Training Center (ITC). During her last few months at the ITC, Bev began experiencing a "Grace Awakening," and her eyes became opened to her own search for significance with God through the faulty path of legalism and works. When she left the ITC at the age of 19, she began her journey of re-discovering God through grace, and deprogramming much of what she had learned about God and the Bible through the Institute's ministry---things both taught and caught. Bev has a BA in Humanities, and has worked with two International missions organizations and a Christian college. She is married to Kevin, a Presbyterian (PCA) pastor and Recovering Grace writer, and they live in North Carolina with their three kids and golden retriever.

68 Comments

The "us vs. them" dichotomy within the church is exemplified most clearly in people that not only exhibit the behaviors you described, but also stubbornly refuse to engage in actual dialogue with those who don't think so similarly about the not-so-critical issues. Our journey toward Christ is - or at least should be - a constant state of growth and learning. It's near impossible to grow and learn when our circle of influence is homogeneous and filled with those who are comfortably just like us. IBLP is obviously the extreme application of this logic, but it's pervaded much more of the modern church than we realize.

I think a lot of this can be attributed to fear. Whenever we - and I mean the church in general when saying "we" - see the chaos, lawlessness, and evil in the world, it's easy to cling to the principles or talking points when we're scared. After all, Christ can't be physically seen, but a list of standards to keep that will help us stand out? It's more tangible, more manageable. We seem to be in control. The natural, sinful part of us still longs to take God’s place and become gods of our own, just as the first human beings desired in the Garden of Eden.

We've also adopted a very twisted form of seeking approval from others, and that is the seeking of disapproval from those who aren't "us." I think a lot of this can be traced to our penchant for glorifying persecution and martyrdom in the church to such an unhealthy degree that standing against the rest of the world to the point where we're being actively oppressed becomes the ideal, not actual Christlikeness. Outperforming other believers in our efforts to attract the negative attention of the world has become more of an idol than the church realizes, and the more principles there are to check off, the better.

Whenever we do walk with believers who aren't exactly like us, it's so radically different than the huddling that typically takes place in Christian circles now. It's unthinkable to associate with that person who holds Opinion X because - gasp! - they hold Opinions Y and Z too! Admitting that someone else might be right about something is often viewed as a slippery slope where you might realize they're right about those other things too. In the end, Opinions X, Y, and Z are all amalgamated, with no boundaries drawn or distinctions made. And reducing people to sets of opinions and downplaying their humanity is one of the worst things we can do as believers.

"We've also adopted a very twisted form of seeking approval from others, and that is the seeking of disapproval from those who aren't "us."

This is important, J.B., thanks. Some Christians take a similar approach to life circumstances; acting as if hardship, like the disapproval of others, somehow proves their sanctity.

But looking to the examples of Scripture as a model, it is clear that those of faith can experience both hardship and plenty, approval and disapproval. We see all four in the life of Joseph, for example. Jesus both grew 'in favor with God and man', and was later 'despised and rejected'. Agrippa, clearly impressed, was 'almost persuaded' by Paul but nevertheless Paul was ultimately condemned by Caesar.

Our assurance that we are right with God can only come from our ongoing relationship with him. It is an internal voice that tells us God is pleased; a still, small, voice, not the shouts of our circumstances or our 'others'.

J.B., great points. I see the same thing outside the "Christian" world: in domestic politics, international relations, commerce. We are in the midst of a cultural disintegration driven by alienation and hostility, abhorring unity, seeking only the destruction of opposition. Whether the church's pathology is a significant cause or we are merely stewing in the same pot, believers must become free from rather than perpetuators of this disintegration. "As much as it is possible for you, live at peace with all men."

"The top rank, who are seen by themselves as the more spiritual Christians, hold to rigorous teachings on things such as fasting, abstaining from certain foods, and avoiding certain ungodly people; and the lower rank are viewed as inferior Christians, who either can’t or won’t keep up with the same “standards of holiness.”

But somehow, those top-rankers always fail to notice that in Romans 14:21, it is the 'weaker' brother who stumbles over legalism, not the stronger! "It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak."

So basically those of us strong with freedom in Christ have to protect our weaker legalist brethren. :-)

When you read Romans 14, what you see is that those who have all kinds of rules about what you can't do, *those* are the weaker brothers, even though they think of themselves as the stronger brothers for "holding to a higher standard of conduct". (Today we see that in those who hold that *good* Christians abstain from all alcohol, don't gamble, etc.) These weaker brothers (who consider themselves to be the stronger brothers) believe that by maintaining their list of do-nots they are adhering to the admonition to not put a stumbling block before those who don't adhere to the list, who they consider the weaker brother.

But the reality is that those who recognize the freedom they have, in Christ, not to adhere to a man-made list are identified in Romans 14 as the *stronger* brother. They are admonished to abstain in love from those things that might cause their weaker list-keeping brother from stumbling. So, for instance, a stronger brother might abstain from doing things in the presence of their weaker brother...abstaining for the sake of not encouraging the brother to participate in something that the brother has not yet matured in the faith enough to be able to recognize his freedom..."But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith...."

This does not mean we allow our list-keeping brothers to remain in their weaker-brother bondage. Rather, we work towards helping them to grow and mature in their faith to the point that they, too, fully recognize the freedom they have in Christ. They may still decide to abstain, but at that point it would be from a position of freedom, with no self-deception that the abstaining was a sign of their spiritual maturity.

'Megan'August 30, 2014

Much better, thank you. I understand that now. What a beautiful concept!

Sadly, my church was twice divided by Gothardites. Once because the pastor would not preach Gothardism from the pulpit (he allowed them to sign up people for the seminars in the lobby, wasn't that enough?), and instead focused (horrors!) on grace. When one family had some severe problems with their teenager, they said the pastor's focus on grace was to blame.

The other time was when a new music minister was called, with tastes they viewed as shockingly contemporary but which were actually incredibly tame. They succeeded in driving the music minister, a gentle and godly man, completely away from the church; he retains the hurt of that experience to this day and in spite of enormous talent has never served in a church again. Having done so, they left the church en masse anyway! 90% of them now attend churches with far more contemporary music than that which they once so vehemently opposed.

I wonder if your pastor would encourage attendance again.it seemed like it really backfired on him. I also wonder if these people that drove away the music minister really followed BG teaching on gossip and bad reports. I imagine not but did this by gossip and bad reports which shows you the hypocrisy of the whole thing. Its OK to gossip and give bad reports on others when the are not a BG stooge but never talk about real problems with BG because that is gossip and bad reports

A pastor preached against Gothard's teachings at my church, and the Gothardites took issue with that, threatened him and so he packed his bags and left to avoid a division. And the Gothardites are still in my church today. They were never really remorseful or apologized for it, but instead made everyone else appear like the bad guy.

You wrote a nice article Bev. With 30 thousand christian denominations, there are obviously significant differences in doctrine and dogma. IBPL was not a church with authority but a parachurch which in many ways surplanted church authority even though the big emphasis was authority. Got hard filled a gap in telling people how to lives their lives in order to be Godly or holy. The rules ended up becoming elevated to the level of doctrine and dogma which resulted in the church splits and hopping that you write about. So things like music, dress, movies, TV, sports, women working became the doctrine. All these things are not meant to be elevated to such a level because the are all very subjective not objective and will be dependent on culture and time. This proves not only the danger of BG but the on going problem of para church ministries that are not under any authority of a church or denomination and are followed as the final authority with too much devotion.

Fifteen years ago I went to a bridal shower for the fiancé of a young man who went to our church. Knowing the young lady's family was ATI I dressed for the occasion in what I thought was an anti-eye-trap outfit as to not offend those with a heightened sensitivity concerning apparel. It must have been too business-like. When I was introduced to the young lady's mother the first words out of her mouth was "I am a stay at home mom. As a godly woman I believe women should find their fulfillment in the home."

My first thought was to set the gift on the table, make my excuses, and go home to a comfy pair of jeans to do some gardening.

Instead, I smiled and told her I thought it was wonderful that she had opportunity of being at home with her children. Unfortunately that lead to a lecture of a woman's place...how important it was to home school...Mr. Gothard says...IBLP seminar...life changing...

When my head stopped spinning I let her know it was nice to meet her. I excused myself politely, went home to my comfy jeans, and prayed for that young man and woman while gardening.

A few months later we invited the couple over for dinner. The young lady looked around my home and wanted to know why I had so many things. They didn't believe in debt. Why didn't I have more than one child? Even with health problems shouldn't God be in control of my womb?

Once again my head was spinning. How did my womb become a dinner conversation?

The next Sunday her mother was visiting from out of town. As they approached I felt myself stiffen. First thing out of her mouth was "My daughter said you have a beautiful home. I am a godly woman and have more important things to do with my time than sitting around polishing things." My reply "So do I than it why my household duties are completed by 9 every morning."

I had never in my life been more embarrassed with myself as I was at that moment. I snapped out an answer and joined in her need to compete and compare. I don't know what it was that brought out that kind of pride? I don't know why I felt I needed to defend myself? I just knew I didn't like who I was at that moment as much as I didn't like being judged. I stepped back at that moment and decided not to play their game.

As I look back I realized that without even knowing me they felt they were superior. Yet if they got to know me they would have realized I wasn't who they assumed. I was just like them. I love The Lord my Savior. I wake up thinking of where will the Holy Spirit lead me today. I read my Bible. I love my family, and serve them. I love my church and community, and serve them. I believe there can never be enough good. That is why I do not compare the goodness that comes my way with others, but instead am thankful for all good they receive. God multiplies His goodness as He sees fit, and then He lavishes His children with the goodness of His daily presence.

Funny thing was I'm not/nor was a working woman, although I know many God fearing women who work. I'm not/nor was in debt, although I know many God fearing couples who have faced hardships that have temporarily placed them in debt.

The thing was the two women wanted to set the standard with their list of "godly principles." As they move in church circles they separate those with whom they impress from those who who rather garden. They are seeking control.

The family eventually move to our area, got involved with different churches, always wanting a family Sunday School class, caravans to IBLP seminars, splitting services to have a traditional music only service, etc. Over time they have hopped all over the place looking for the "godly" instead of knowing God.

Nancy2, I know what you're talking about. I've experienced it too, although not to the degree you've described. It tends to make friendship and fellowship nearly impossible, since I do not measure up to someone else's standard. . . . I am basically not good enough for them. It is much easier to be kind and loving to unbelieving friends or strangers than it is to be kind and loving to those who have judged me to be spiritually inferior.

@Nancy2: Thanks for sharing. I loved your experiences and revel in the oddities and audacity of the exchanges you've had. So hilarious, yet very true and incredibly sad. I can relate... but for the sake of not self-identifying, I won't share my stories here. Thanks, Nancy2.

Nancy, I think this is the most beautiful encapsulation of that teaching I have ever seen. Sometimes this is phrased as "we can never be good enough for God", which can be the cause of so much shame and feeling we continually disappoint God.

But you have gone all the way to the root of truth: just that there can simply never be enough good. There should always be more, and more, an overflowing, ever-growing goodness. We should work to pour more and more good into the world, throughout our lives, right up until the end. The limit of goodness is infinite. The limit does not exist.

Nancy,Thank you for sharing your story. I've also witnessed that type of superior attitude. For example, the woman who I mentioned earlier, no doubt, sees herself as more godly for not adopting, than my friend who brought special needs kids into her home.Another family I know considers themselves very blessed by Gothard, IBLP, and ATI. They would count themselves as those who have greatly benefited from the teachings. But, the thing is, you should see them judge other people, as I have witnessed many times. This woman is worldly because she (gasp) wears tank tops. Or, blasting some young adults who choose to worship the Lord by playing the drums, or electric guitars. They are hurting others with the judgement that flows from these man made elitist standards. They can't see the harm they do or their pride. When you follow the ideas of a man, thinking that you are following God, there is no other result other than that damage will happen.People have wondered out loud here several times about what percentage of folks were damaged by the teachings and what percentage were benefited. I think it would be accurate to say that there are those who were damaged and those who do not yet know that they were damaged. If you follow a set of manmade standards, thinking that they are from God and that you are acting more godly for following them; if you go around judging other people when you observe they don't measure up to those standards; if you hurt others because they went against the teachings of Bill Gothard and adopted; if you call victims of sexual abuse liars, in order to try to preserve the legacy of a sick individual who needs help- you have been damaged by the teachings of Bill Gothard and IBLP. You just don't know it yet.

Kevin said, "When you follow the ideas of a man, thinking that you are following God, there is no other result other than that damage will happen.

I love this. No good can come from it.

Granted, some of us had a very wonderful (supernatural ?) experience when we first went to the seminars in the 70's. (sometimes the donkey speaks, but it is not a good idea to get ones theology from a donkey) Perhaps there appeared to be some short term benefits at the time. The sad truth is, some very dangerous poisons have no damage at the beginning. Give it time.

"there is no other result other than that damage will happen." So very good Kevin.

Thank you Bev for this article.

DaveSeptember 3, 2014

@ GuyS:

Totally stealing that - "Sometimes the donkey speaks, but it's not a good idea to get one's theology from a donkey."

Sheer Brilliance! Well played good sir!

kevinSeptember 3, 2014

Guy,You said:

"sometimes the donkey speaks, but it is not a good idea to get ones theology from a donkey"

I love this. Very true. With your permission, I'd love to join Dave and steal this line from you.

GuySSeptember 3, 2014

Kevin, of course you can use that line. My reaction when I read your request was ha ha ha ha :) So funny. Anyone is welcome to use it with no credit given to me. Not even creative commons....just use it like you dreamed it up yourself.

Of course, I have been thinking about this a really long time. It is so liberating to finally spit it out. Life is good.

The more complete analogy is the donkey seeing the danger ahead, not only supernaturally speaks, but also is carrying a broken clock (accurate twice a day) in his pack. So now the pithy quote becomes a little more awkward.

"Sometimes a donkey speaks supernaturally to warn of danger, and is furthermore accurate and truthful twice a day, but it is not a good idea to get ones theology and Godly standards from a filthy donkey."

I am an ATI dad (second year) who was in the program 5 or 6 years before everything fell apart. So much for strong families. I hope it is OK if I share how I would have liked this analogy discussed by three of my ATI kids for healing and resolution of the madness.

So dad, you had a supernatural experience and revival at that seminar. So dad, your life took a new course because you were warned of danger. So dad, you took away 12 (6 days x twice a day) accurate and truthful insights that week. With apologies to Shaina Twain, (as a ATI kid) that don't impress me much.

I admit it this is a far out, crazy way to discuss important stuff. However, it shows my kids how it was possible for me on the one hand to "drink the Kool Aid," but on the other hand shows I might not be a total fool who should be beaten and then shot for being so stupid.

I want to be clear, I think it was possible to experience supernatural, short term life changing insights from a evil clean cut man in a nice blue suite who who teaches heresy and is a filthy serial sexual predator who spares no expense grooming his victims.

Some might argue that the supernatural part was from the devil. Perhaps. Some might also argue that maybe I was a total fool who should be beaten and then shot for being so stupid. Perhaps.

RG has been such a healing and helpful place for me these past two years. I never thought that I would ever be able to find people who might understand me and what I have been through. I never thought I would be able to talk about this. Thank you RG.

These stories really motivate me to imagine other ways to respond faithfully. I wonder what would happen if someone responded to a "high standards" pride with: "And are you making every effort to add to your godliness, brotherly affection, and to brotherly affection, love"? (Quoting II Peter 1:7.) Of course, the individual may really be back in verse 5, needing to add knowledge to their "virtue" but it might be more fruitful to meekly confront them with their seeming lack of love. As hard as it is, we need to foster real compassion in dealing with them. Easier said than done, I know.Many of my ideas are silly, but what think ye?

Very similar to what the Holy Spirit opened the door for me to do at a later time. The verse that was pressed on my heart to share was John 13:34. After all godly women desire to obey our Lord's commands.

Nancy, thanks for this story. I didn't realize how much pride and judgmentalism I had until a few years ago and I am working through it. I am going back to the Word and seeing how much error I bought being raised under Bill's stuff. On behalf of being raised under that I apoligize for her. Father forgive her she knows not what she does.

Bev,Thank you for this article. You are spot in with your points about how Garthardism is divisive. I have been involved in a church split over the teachings of Gothard. More recently there have been harsh, divisive words from an IBLP follower with whom we fellowship towards another woman in the group. The woman who was hurt and her husband have a heart for special needs children and have adopted several and are in the process of adopting another. The ATI woman just had to give her a piece of her mind about what IBLP teaches on adoption: "Bill Gothard says this, Bill Gothard says that..." and on and on, not coming up for air. My friend was in shock and did not know how to even respond to such an attack. She was brought to tears and was deeply hurt. Yes, it is divisive- I have seen it. These teachings are not from God. No one who is truly teaching the Word would teach such evil things about adoption, or teach how it is the victim's fault for sexual abuse. The pain and division caused by these teachings is real.

kevin, your friends must be amazing people, especially when the only thing the Gothardite could find fault with was their deep love for children. I will definitely pray for God to comfort their hurt. The subject of Gothard and adoption is something I run from as my extended family has been torn apart over that ungodly teaching.

I've been involved in one church split that stemmed from Gothardism and similar things in the article above. My own family ran the family class, and the family class also divided during the same split... Lord have mercy already! (This is after we'd left our long time church because of the youth group, and other evils that came with fellowshipping with other Christians who didn't do Gothard's stuff.) We sampled out a couple of churches after that, before finding a pro-Gothard church, where my parents and remaining unmarried siblings still attend. Gah.

They have become spiritual bullies. It is none of any business if someone is adopting or even what things someone has in there home. The problem is that most Christians really don't know how to deal with bullies because we want to be polite and Christ like. The next time one of these spiritual know it all starts quoting BG stop them and say you don't following any teaching from a known sexual pervert that can't keep his hand off of teenage girls and had to resign over it. This ought to shut them up and they will hopefully move on to bully someone else. Jesus wasn't always polite, He called people snakes, hypocrites white washed tombs etc. Not exactly polite stuff. If some idiot goes on and on about adoption to hurt others and not even have the faintest of compassion to special need children then someone should have had to guts to tell her to shut up and get lost. This may sound harsh but these two stories just boil my blood and I've learned through life is sometimes people almost need a punch in the nose to get the point.

Thank you rob war for saying the hard things. I've read the article that deals with Gothard's teaching on adoption. His teaching is simply evil. I have seen the comments defending his position, and I believe anyone who supports his view is in grave danger spiritually. The story of the unjust servant comes to mind. As we have received God's grace, mercy and love in our lives, it should overflow to others especially to those children without parents. Condemnation of adoption and adoptive parents is both pathetic and reprehensible. How did Gothard get away with this for so long? It is tragic for anyone to think their ability to reproduce makes them spiritually superior, sick,sick sick!

Amen Alia! I first heard the teaching against adoption in Excel and was aghast at how ridiculous, hurtful and downright wicked it was! The Bible talks of God adopting us, and what other Godly alternative to unwanted pregnancy would there be without adoption? In my opinion, to be against adoption is almost akin to being for abortion. It seems to me that the majority of IBLP teachings are designed to put people in fear and that is from the Devil. The Bible tells us that perfect love casts out fear. I've spent the majority of my life living in fear of everything from the stupid teachings I grew up with, and spending my adult life trying to overcome the damage. I don't even know how to have friends or be a friend anymore, I feel like I am still so screwed up. I am grateful for RG providing a platform for people to speak out against the horror that is IBLP. I am ashamed that I and my family were judgmental towards others growing up, similar to the examples in this article and don't even know how to apologize since I don't even know the people that we likely offended decades ago. I am grateful that my father started to see the hypocrisy and got us out of ATI when I was a teenager, and that my whole family has been finding healing talking about the stories that we read on RG. Thank you everyone for your care, concern and humility to post here. It isn't easy, but it has certainly made a difference in my life, and in my family and friends who grew up in ATI with me.

Hey, Anna. Go easy on yourself. You can trust your instincts on the being a friend thing. I know from personal experience that you are superb at being a friend. There is a photo of me in flowery Easter hat somewhere to prove it.

I think it is very difficult for those raised in gothardism to stand up for themselves, especially for women when faced with this kind of bullying behavior. The is a passitivity and an idea to suffer in silience. On the other hand it seems that gothardism emboldens others like described by Kevin and nancy. Just think of it, she dresses nicely for a shower, her career is questioned. They visit her house, they comment on how many things she had and then have to make comments about how many children she had as if it is any of their business then make assumptions about her being in debt. Who the **** are they to say anything at all. Nancy being the kind and gracious christian she seems to be probably wouldn't think of saying back to these bozos " you know assumption starts with a** and that is what you are becoming so get lost". The adoption stuff is very personal as well. Trying to adopt someone gave me the adoption teaching. It was devastating at the time. I never looked back and it was the first step in realizing there is something wrong here. Even though all of that was years ago, I am looking back to find answers as to what is wrong with BG and his teaching.

kevinAugust 30, 2014

"The adoption stuff is very personal as well. Trying to adopt someone gave me the adoption teaching. It was devastating at the time. I never looked back and it was the first step in realizing there is something wrong here. "

Rob.That is interesting that learning of the adoption teaching was your first step in seeing that something was wrong. The adoption booklet is so appalling, I can't see how anyone can read it and not be mortified. I've used that booklet to demonstrate to pastors how upside down Gothard's teachings are. Just about any Christian who is not already in the system, with cult level devotion, will see those teachings as a powerful warning against this man. What Christian, what decent human being, would advocate that followers should send their adopted children away and God will reward you with financial blessings, giving anecdotal examples? But, that is just what he does.

Nancy2August 31, 2014

Rob war, thankfully that wasn't the end of my story. You are right. I would never do anything to ruin someone's shower, nor would I be a rude hostess out of respect for my husband.

I prayed for The Lord to open a door to reach out to this family. He answered that prayer years later. I was given a private opportunity to discuss with the mother her lack of love created by her prideful demnor. She didn't agree. She stood firm in her gothardeze. She runs from me now, although I treat her politely.

Her daughter has made progress in letting go of her judgmental attitude. I thank The Lord for His movement in this couples life. The young man is a friend of our child and will always have a place in our hearts.

I am excited knowing the Creator of all is still creating beauty out of us His fallen creation.

TangentAugust 31, 2014

One good thing about Gothard's teaching on adoption; it prevented innocent children from being adopted by Gothardites and geowing up in spiritually abusive (and worse) situations.

The teaching is rooted in fear and self-protection which is NOT selfless. But we should understand that some very old cultures eschew adoptions based on anecdotes (sound familiar) such as "gypsies" growing up and killing or stealing from their adoptive homes. I learned this when visiting the Georgian Republic (on the Black Sea, not north of Florida!) The Georgian Bible does not even use "adoption" in the various New Testament passages about God's adoptive love. Hostility and fear of adoption, while not Biblical, is part of a natural alienated defensiveness in fallen human nature.It is also ironic that what BG sought to "protect" ATI families from was of the sort of behavior that his own blood brother engaged in, sexually abusing insiders. That makes me wonder what ancestor's iniquities were manifested in BG's birth family's sins? (I acknowledge that is mean-spirited but it's hard not to test the man against his own teaching.)

Is it possible for RG to post the information BG put out regarding adoption? Would love to read.

rob warSeptember 3, 2014

I think there is a response to BG from Bethany Christian which is a big adoption agency and they do both domestic and international adoption. From what I remember about the material which i tossed was that Bill used the adoption stories from the OT in which most of them are either familial (like Ester). Moses was used as an example by Bill that cross cultural or racial adoptions are not God's plan because Moses went back to his people and didn't stay with the Egyptians. However, Bill again demonstrates that he elevated OT cultural norms to mean they are Biblical norms which again is bogus interpretation. The OT is filled with verses about taking care of the orphans. In the NT, we are all adopted into God's family. Bill also used fear factor based on his generational cursing teaching which likewise is bogus. If one was to adopt, you may be getting some poor child that will be trouble to your family, so don't adopt. Bill again used vague stories how some family adopted an obviously different racial child and all they had was problems until they sent the child to a like race family. It would be good if RG posted the link to Bethany and maybe had an article about it. Bill used adoption myths and racial prejudice. Trust me it was very upsetting to read at the time.

Becoming FreeSeptember 3, 2014

Hi Rob - Thanks for the info on BG's teaching on adoption.

Re: "Moses was used as an example by Bill that cross cultural or racial adoptions are not God's plan because Moses went back to his people and didn't stay with the Egyptians."

Not doubting your statement at all - it's unbelievable that BG twisted Moses' story in this fashion. HelLO - like, didn't God put Moses in this specific adoptive family to bring about the freedom of the Hebrew people?? And BG used this as an anti-adoption story?? (eye roll here)

kevinSeptember 3, 2014

When I read the adoption booklet and much of Gothard's material, I do get the sense that there is an underlying racism behind his opposition.Regarding Moses, this is what is written in Care Booklet #5, page 6."As Moses grew up in his adoptive home, he became more and more aware of the differences between his own people and the Egyptians among whom he was being raised.The resulting tensions brought him to the decision of rejecting all the wealth and benefits which were his in his adoptive family. Instead, he chose to suffer affliction by identifying with his own people."

I am so very, very, very ashamed of the superior attitude I carried with me for 15 years. ashamed. It was sickening and my children saw it. I am grateful to God if/that they saw any glimmer of Jesus in me at all.

I was born again into freedom and an exciting new life in Christ at the age of 18. Went to the Basic and it kinda meant nothing - I was loving God too much. Had children, went to the Basic again, heard about God's great gift to the world called ATI and we were in... Slowly I gave way to more and more pride... but in what? Now I look back and am appalled. Pride in Bible version, pride in dress, pride in homemaking skills, pride in the fact I homeschooled, pride in just about everything. (but the funny thing is - at the same time you can never, ever measure up... but at least your kids don't go to school) Oh it was a recipe for disaster. Pride comes before destruction,God tells us.

I am grateful for those who love me even though I went through this. I am sorry for teaching the same to others. Grateful for the grace of my Almighty God who is kind and who still loves the girl who was 18 so long ago.

Beverly, thank you for putting these words "out there". Thank you to all who comment. I learn so much from you all. It is good to hear from your first hand experiences as the kids of ATI families.

I am glad this is all over with now and grace is again what I see and know. Now I can 'smell' this prideful type stuff a mile away and either confront it carefully - at least don't back down from it - or walk away. And remember to love them - as I was once the same.

Julia,Thank you so much for sharing. Your testimony is very powerful. It is beautiful the way that you found God's grace! It gives me hope for my friends who are deep in ATI that they too may know God's grace and be set free from the legalism that binds them.

Julia, I am not an ATI child. I am someone who would bump up against the Gothard pride mentality often. It was a prompting for prayer. Prayer that those caught in this system of belief would come to know God's goodness, love, mercy, grace, and forgiveness. That they would find the freedom God desired them to know. Although I do not know you Julia, you are an answer to my prayers. Thank you. And thank you for your prayers that others will find freedom and healing.

You're doing well to be able to speak to people who are now following the path that we now see to be so wrong. I have a hard time with denim skirts. Yuck, that was me in my ATI prideful life. Now am I too proud to be friendly, or am I just afraid of being judged as "a worldly woman" by them?

Tangent, I have things I turn from - like you and denim skirts. (I cut about 8 inches off my skirts and made them cute and up to date.)

I encourage myself to love those stuck in all kinds of prideful sects but I will tell you when it is hardest - when I see it in their young people, especially their daughters. They do the look down their nose at up to date clothing or some thing that does not suit them and an anger or sickening rises in me. I am mad at the Mom who is propagating this in her home. I know that I need to hate the pride and have gentle love for the person. I came an inch away from calling a very new acquaintance out on it when her daughter (13) gave Mom the phone and said some unkind things about me she did not realize I could hear. I saw her Mom later and boy, I was going to let her have it in the grocery aisle and tell her how she was leading her daughter so wrong in this and to turn to the love and grace of a God who does not want us judging others in our stench of pride etc... I was shaking because I came so close to saying something. I may say something the next time we see one another because I will be able to in love and a more careful manner.

LeslieAugust 31, 2014

I have 3 denim skirts. They are all pencil skirts and hit mid knee. If I were not a woman of a certain age they would be shorter.

Kevin, I probably should have said last straw. I had a number of questions about a number of the ideas BG taught and promoted and by that time realized with life experience and being married that an number of things were off key. The adoption was the final blow for me. I think a number of reasons why people doe get caught up with him is that his ministry was geared to teenagers and young adults. BG also has a very gentle style that is disarming. He comes across as your unmarried uncle with some good advice. Young people don't have life experience and even biblical know how to see through it or realize a number of things are not right. I went away to college, lived on my own afterwards so I knew just from life experience that he was off. We also were not going to a church that promoted him which helps. When I first went to ibcy, I was attending a sheparding church which was heavy on the authority teaching. I think that was the draw for them. They even for a month followed his order of worship for a month. This was before anti came into being. The scandal of 1980 was passed off as all of Steve's fault and that bill took responsible for not dealing with him. But in reality that isn't true.

As far as doing nothing wrong, I'm certain I was wrong. I allowed another to provoke me to anger, and responded in a way that could have easily damaged my testimony and work within my community. It wasn't righteous indignation, but the kind of anger that only fed into this woman's opinion of others who live without Gothard. My response did not provide a different way of thinking, it's desire was to trump her for her rude comments. That was my pride out of control. Concerning this woman I tired to learned from it, and when the door re-opened for a real response to the same type of behavior my heart was ready to speak the truth in a very direct way with love.

I still occasionally fall short when balancing hurt and reprove, but praise God for the Holy Spirit's gentle conviction.

I wonder if all this majoring on the minors (ala BG and other legalists) is what allowed real major sin to gain a foothold in the church, such as gossip, sleeping around, and even homosexuality (allowing and accepting the lifestyle as opposed to accepting the sinner.)

If majoring in the majors means establishing a deeper personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ I would say yes.

I know my husband, and love who he is. The thought of doing anything to hurt him or disappoint him is unthinkable.

Likewise, when I know my Lord and Savior more, see Him as the exact image of the Father, and know He sent the Holy Spirit to comfort me in a way that guides me away from sin I love Him all the more. It is a multiplying love that changes me. That is my personal deterrent to sin. Therefore in my relationship with the Lord obedience becomes my act of worship as I move through my days.

If I were to focus on sin temptation would abound. I will confess to my own inability to stay on a healthy diet without the occasional cheating as evidence. Focusing on Jesus produces fruit. Focusing on sin produces sin.

I think "majoring on the minors" is certainly a part of that, but it's also critical to determine what has inspired that mindset: focusing too much on external appearances. There's no shortage of accounts shared on RG about how IBLP encouraged families to maintain the most ideal image possible for the world to see. This may be an unpopular opinion, but I've personally come to believe that the problems within Gothardism are an extreme manifestation of the issues that are currently plaguing the modern, non-IBLP church, of which this is certainly one.

When the church glosses over sin and does not rebuke leaders who unremorsefully live a sinful lifestyle in the name of "preserving unity" and "keeping the name of God undamaged," the exact opposite happens. The world sees the church's attitude toward its own sin and notes the hypocrisy, while the church dodges the issue by making reconciliation and redemption a one-step process, never treating the actual problem. It's much easier for sin to take hold when it's not being addressed properly, and especially when certain sins are emphasized more than others.

Esbee, that might be part of the delusion, but given Paul's response to those "majoring on the minors" (he wished they would emasculate themselves) I'm not sure that that sin itself is any less than those you mentioned. It is our nature to love "our" sin and hate our neighbor's. I think Micah's admonition ("do justice, love mercy and walk humbly with your God" is directed against both liberals who do not value "doing justly" but love mercy preaching easy grace to the exclusion of all else, as well as directed at legalists who love justice so much that they have no mercy in them. I was about 50 before I recognized that "do justice" is about my behavior and motives while love mercy is how I am supposed to relate to others, particularly their imperfections. Liberals ignore their sin while preaching mercy and legalists ignore their mercilessness while preaching the law. Both they and we are blind to our own sin and highly motivated to not seeing. And few walk humbly with their God. So you liberals don't bother going after me on that point, I confess.

I think it's important to remember that Bill wasn't "majoring in the minors", he was making up his own rules. Really, this is where I part ways with RG. The problem wasn't Bill's view of grace and needing to be a little easier on people. The problem was his man-made rules that aren't in the Bible at all.

Bev has an excellent article here about what Christ said on the subject. Thanks, Bev.

By the way, I also wrote an article about this same subject back about six months ago. If you click on my name above, you can find the article under "Ignore the Commands of Men."

I think one has to qualify what is major and what is minor. If one is to use the standard of the 5 fundamentals such as trinity, virgin birth, bodily resurrection, Bible as inspired word of God etc. then you have defined basic dogma and Christian doctrine and those things are what should be considered major. Most of BG teaching focused on family life and daily living which isn't dogma and doctrine and can greatly vary by time and culture. These are the minor things which people are focusing on and making divisive standards for everyone else. It seems like the admonition of Jesus that sin comes from within not from the outside is lost in the rush to have "high standards". BG efforts to control the external environment in an effort to control sin is misguided and those that follow him to the letter of the law forget that it is sin from within that needs to be dealt with. That is probably how his brother that grew up in the same Christian home, never went to movies, no TV etc, still fell into blatant immorality. It was within him, not the external factors so much that caused his sexual immorality. People that follow BG, don't use their basic common sense and fall for BG fear factors on music or dress etc and then turn around are cause havoc in Churches that many of the posters are talking about.

Kevin,thanks for sharing what was written in the care booklet because I threw mine out in disgust. I think you point out again scripture twisting by BG. Maybe if he read the Bible, it doesn't say at all that Moses, rejected the wealth and power of Pharohs household. Moses saw abuse and killed a man in which he had to run away from. He wasn't looking to rejoin his birth family. Only after 40 years in the desert as a shepard did God call him back to lead the Hebrews to freedom. This wasn't something Moses was looking for and even protested going when first approached by God in the burning bush. Moses adoption which his mother choose to save his life was a unique way in which God was preparing Moses to do. It most likely gave Moses a unique access when approaching Pharoh. This isn't an anti-adoption story at all. But again BG used it to boost his own hidden racial biases in my opinion and adoptions that cut across race and culture don't fit in the narrow minded world of BG.

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