The Wikipedia article on the Palestinian Dialect of Arabic notes that before the introduction of Arabic in the 7th century, most people spoke Aramaic. The language of the Bible was also Hebrew, which they spoke before they learned Aramaic.

The Wikipedia article on "Palestinian Arabic" proposes some examples of how Palestinian Arabic goes in the direction of Hebrew.

The creator of modern Israeli Hebrew, Eliezar Ben Yehuda, also thought that Palestinian Arabic had a Hebrew "sub-stratum".

After reading the wiki article it would seem that if not based on Hebrew that Palestinian Arabic at the very least has loan words from Hebrew along with certain pronunciations that could be ascribed to either Hebrew or Aramaic. This is probably so given that the Palestinians live in Israel (or Palestine, whatever) and since that country is not culturally dominated by Islam that cross culturalization (I made that up... I think) can happen.

However, Jordan is a separate land from the geographical land of Palestine, and Jordanians are different from Palestinians. By "Jordanian," you might be including Palestinians, it's just that the terms mean different things. So unfortunately, what you wrote doesn't clearly answer the question. To explain it better, just because Jordanian Arabic has a word that seems in a way similar to its Hebrew counterpart doesn't mean that Palestinian Arabic has the same similarlity.

But still, it's interesting about the languages of the Levant.

Regards.

dcommini,

The Wikipedia article noted:

Quote

the rural dialects of Palestinian Arabic contain features that appear to resemble their classical Hebrew counterparts.

The clearest example is the second and third person plural pronouns. hemme (they masc.) and henne (they fem.) resembles Hebrew hēm / hēn as against Classical Arabic hum/hunna, Aramaic hennōn/hennēn and general Levantine Arabic hunne.

Here it doesn't seem that Palestinian is closer to Hebrew than the others. At first glance, it seems that the Hebrew could be closer than Arabic because the Hebrew starts with ē and the Palestinian has e. The problem is that ē in my mind isn't really a long version of regular e. In my mind, phonetically a letter "ē" is actually a combination of two sounds: short i and y. If you say "short i" and then "y" together, you will see that you get ē, like in the word "eat."

So the beginning of the Palestinian word, Hem-, is hardly closer to the Hebrew beginning of Hiym- than it is to the Arabic Hum-. Further, even if it is closer, then the very beginning is even closer to the Aramaic, which begins with He-, just like the Palestinian begins with He-.

The blue letters above show in my mind how likely it is that the Palestinian word came from those other sources. Hebrew seems a possibility, but a small one.

This is probably a better example of a similarity between Hebrew and Palestinian, because here, only Hebrew has the "e" that Palestinian does.

The Wikipedia article further writes:

Quote

A less clear example is the transformation of glottal stop followed by long alif (alif madda) into an "o" sound, as in the form Ana bokel (أنا بوكل) noted above. This certainly occurs in the future forms of Hebrew verbs with an aleph as the first consonant of their root. However, it is equally characteristic of Aramaic.

This doesn't go one way or the other, because it notes that it's equally characteristic of Aramaic, so on the face of it, the similarity could have come equally from Aramaic or Hebrew. Also, I don't understand what they are talking about in their explanation of the alifs and "Ana bokel."

I agree with you that:

Quote

After reading the wiki article it would seem that if not based on Hebrew that Palestinian Arabic at the very least has loan words from Hebrew along with certain pronunciations that could be ascribed to either Hebrew or Aramaic. This is probably so given that the Palestinians live in Israel (or Palestine, whatever) and since that country is not culturally dominated by Islam that cross culturalization (I made that up... I think) can happen.

The wikipedia article mentioned Hebrew loan words. However, these loan words that it listed are ones that it appears it picked up in the last 200 years, like the word "computer." Such loan words don't go to the base of the language. So they don't show that the language itself has a Hebrew sub-stratum, just like loan words from slavic languages like "vodka" don't show that English has a slavic sub-stratum. Your apparent explanation is also correct: what you are suggesting is that since Hebrew is the dominant force's language, cross-culturalization can happen, with loan words from Hebrew into Palestinian. On the other hand, even if Islam culturally dominated Palestine, there could still be cross culturization with Hebrew, so long as there was also a significant contact with Hebrew. For example, in Western Ukraine under Austrian rule, Russians weren't culturally dominant, but there was some influence of Russian language among Carpathian nationalists. When they tried to write "proper" Rusyn, it appears that they took some Russian grammar or wording. Or alternatively, the Carpatho-Rusyn language appears to borrow heavily from Slovak, even though it isn't Slovak and the Slovaks are hardly the dominant political force.

Talking about Islam as being not culturally dominant among Palestinians is actually incorrect, since most Palestinians have Islamic background. That's why by "culturally dominant" I assumed you meant "politically dominant" in my analysis above.

However, Jordan is a separate land from the geographical land of Palestine, and Jordanians are different from Palestinians. By "Jordanian," you might be including Palestinians, it's just that the terms mean different things. So unfortunately, what you wrote doesn't clearly answer the question. To explain it better, just because Jordanian Arabic has a word that seems in a way similar to its Hebrew counterpart doesn't mean that Palestinian Arabic has the same similarlity.

But still, it's interesting about the languages of the Levant.

Although Jordan is not Palestine, it isn't on the other side of the world either. It is like Canadian English, whose early core was the American English of the Loyalist who fled/were expelled to there. The Bedouin dialects of Arabic were in both Palestine and Jordan (and Syria) in the time of Christ and before. In both areas the divide was not so much the Jordan River (though that did have a role) but urban versus tribal, the former predominating in Palestine, the latter in Jordan, but both communities very much linked.

The gender distinction is a tribal Bedouin feature, found throughout the Arab world where it is lost in the urban dialects, except (for instance) the Gulf. Btw, the Classical Arabic is hum (m), hunna (f); Egyptian humma.

Quote

Here it doesn't seem that Palestinian is closer to Hebrew than the others. At first glance, it seems that the Hebrew could be closer than Arabic because the Hebrew starts with ē and the Palestinian has e. The problem is that ē in my mind isn't really a long version of regular e. In my mind, phonetically a letter "ē" is actually a combination of two sounds: short i and y. If you say "short i" and then "y" together, you will see that you get ē, like in the word "eat."

The Heb. qualitative/quantitative vowel distincitons are not the same for all period. The Heb. here doesn't come from ay (which it does elsewhere) but from short e being raised under the accent.

Quote

So the beginning of the Palestinian word, Hem-, is hardly closer to the Hebrew beginning of Hiym- than it is to the Arabic Hum-. Further, even if it is closer, then the very beginning is even closer to the Aramaic, which begins with He-, just like the Palestinian begins with He-.

-kem (Palestinian)-ken (Birz-ēt)-khem/khen (Hebrew)-kum/-kunna (Arabic)-kōn / -kēn (Aramaic)-kon (Levantine)This is probably a better example of a similarity between Hebrew and Palestinian, because here, only Hebrew has the "e" that Palestinian does.

Maybe.

Quote

The Wikipedia article further writes:

Quote

A less clear example is the transformation of glottal stop followed by long alif (alif madda) into an "o" sound, as in the form Ana bokel (أنا بوكل) noted above. This certainly occurs in the future forms of Hebrew verbs with an aleph as the first consonant of their root. However, it is equally characteristic of Aramaic.

This doesn't go one way or the other, because it notes that it's equally characteristic of Aramaic, so on the face of it, the similarity could have come equally from Aramaic or Hebrew. Also, I don't understand what they are talking about in their explanation of the alifs and "Ana bokel."

The o comes form a long alif.

Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

As an Egyptian, I can understand Palestinian Arabic a lot better than I can understand Gulf/Levantine Arabic. Actually, my understanding of Levantine isn't bad, but, Gulf Arabic to me sounds like nothing but a bunch of broken sounds

« Last Edit: July 12, 2011, 01:08:25 AM by Severian »

Logged

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -Jesus Christ

"I don’t know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve!" -Bilbo Baggins, The Fellowship of the Ring

As an Egyptian, I can understand Palestinian Arabic a lot better than I can understand Gulf/Levantine Arabic. Actually, my understanding of Levantine isn't bad, but, Gulf Arabic to me sounds like nothing but a bunch of broken sounds

I thought that Palestinian Arabic was also Levantine Arabic. This is what I thought: Levantine Arabic= Lebanon, Palestine, Jordan, and Syria.

Logged

Most Holy Theotokos, Save Us!Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, Have Mercy Upon Me a Sinner!

As an Egyptian, I can understand Palestinian Arabic a lot better than I can understand Gulf/Levantine Arabic. Actually, my understanding of Levantine isn't bad, but, Gulf Arabic to me sounds like nothing but a bunch of broken sounds

I thought that Palestinian Arabic was also Levantine Arabic. This is what I thought: Levantine Arabic= Lebanon, Palestine, Jordan, and Syria.

It's like cockney and British English, a sub-dialect of a dialect continuum.

Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth