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 == Illusions about ""standard Croatian"" == 

 The debate on this page is purely political and as disconnected from scientific discussion as are apples and watermelons. So much ignorance and nonsense flies around that it is next to impossible to start anywhere to debunk this ignorance so strongly displayed by almost everyone. 

 Like this ""pearl"" from a certified ""Iknoweverything"": 

 There is no such thing as ""Slavic origins"". Anyone making a claim that tens of thousands of year old genetic markers have anything to do a decades- or centuries-old identities, that have been constructed in the historical period as can be abundantly attested in the respective literature, is a brain-dead moron. The spread of Slavic identity was primarily through linguistic assimilation (the word Slavs originally meant ""those who speak like us""). Croats from northern Croatia are much more genetically close to neighboring Hungarians or Austrians than they are to remote Russians. The same is valid for any other imaginary collective that we call nation-state or civilizational milieu. Ivan Štambuk (talk)  

 For your information Slaven, not Slav is the original word. And the word ""Slaven"" means in a number of germanic languages (consult german or english dictionaries for more info) a ""dirty boy"". Think of a prepubescent or a teenager's face and clothes after a game of football and you may get the picture. Only in your twisted and ignorant head the word ""Slav"" means something. ANd of all things you claim that it means ""those who speak like us""... 

 In which language? Do tell.  

 Ignorant.  

 How about tis other ""pearl"" from local ""authority"" on everything: 

 ""Croats from northern Croatia are much more genetically close to neighboring Hungarians or Austrians than they are to remote Russians. The same is valid for any other imaginary collective that we call nation-state or civilizational milieu."" 

 A number of genetical studies have been conducted since the war in Jugoslavia and every single one has confirmed that 51% of Croats, especially those near Austria and Hungary are genetically Slavens (Slavs, if you prefer) and as such are identical to Russians, not to Austrians or Hungarians. Many of these studies have been conducted by Croatians too, so above ""pearl"" is only indicative of the size of Stambuk's ignorance, already verified too many times to mention here. 

 Another genius, among many, tty29a quotes here and then misses the point completely: 

 ""    Another cold fact is that Ča- Kaj- and I-kavski are not even dialects. Rather, they are deflections of adjectives (in Ikavski, ijekavski, ekavski) and/or pronouns (in sto-sta- kaj- ca- kavski). Fundamental grammatical rules are identical and do not change beyond what could only be described as dialectal differences between Ča- Kaj Sto- Sta- I- kavski. 
     Let me see if I got this right. They're not dialects but they have dialectal differences? You seem to be in disagreement with your self. Deflections of adjectives and pronouns? Really? Also, if the grammatical systems are identical, why do they have different case and tense systems? I honestly hope you're just a troll. tty29a:talk "" 

 Have a look at this from the quote by tty29a: ""Fundamental grammatical rules are identical and do NOT change beyond what could only be described as dialectal differences between Ča- Kaj Sto- Sta- I- kavski."" 

 And tty29a misses the NOT completely to come up with this nonsense: ""They're not dialects but they have dialectal differences? You seem to be in disagreement with your self."" 

 The only one in disagreement with himself is tty29a. The other person who wrote the quoted text made it CLEAR that they are NOT dialects. 

 And the story goes on and on, forever and ever. Few and far inbetween with some understanding and knowledge, but for the most part just a bunch of ignorants debating things which they do not have the capacity, intellectual one, to grasp and process before they grab the microphone and start making fools of themselves. 

 As a linguist with 27 years of experience, I am apalled with the level of ignorance that reigns here. You people have no idea what you are talking about and yet you have take to yourselves to be the arbitrators who say what goes and what doesn't.  

 You are products of your consumeristic and instant gratification society. Online anarchists who believe in some higher purpose that the rest of us must absorb and abide by your decisions in order to make it happen. Linguistic cannibals. 

 And, indeed, that is all you poor wretches are. Linguistic cannibals."