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layout: transcript |
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interviewee: avraham none bomba |
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rg_number: rg-50.030.0033 |
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pdf_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/oh_findingaids/rg-50.030.0033_trs_en.pdf |
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ushmm_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn504538 |
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gender: m |
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birth_date: none |
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birth_year: 1913.0 |
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place_of_birth: boyden-oberslazen |
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country: germany |
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experience_group: survivor |
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ghetto(s)_encyclopedia: none |
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ghetto: none |
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camp(s)_encyclopedia: none |
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camp: none |
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non_ss_camp: none |
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region: none |
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needs_research: none |
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data_entry: gg |
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accession: none |
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revisit: none |
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tags: transcripts |
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<body><dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="1"><span class="populated place">AVRAHAM BOMBA</span> August 28, 1990 </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3">Q: We are on camera. </sentence><sentence id="4">Would you tell me your full name please? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="7">A: My name is Avraham L...stands for Late Bomba. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="9">Q: Where were you born and when? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="11">A: I was born in a little place. </sentence><sentence id="12">It was <span class="country">Germany</span> at that time. </sentence><sentence id="13"><span class="building">Boyden-Oberslazen</span>, but when I was a little kid...I don't even remember anything. </sentence><sentence id="14">My father he comes from a...a <span class="populated place">city</span> by the name of <span class="populated place">Czestochowa</span>. </sentence><sentence id="15">And they moved to <span class="populated place">Czestochowa</span>. </sentence><sentence id="16">I was brought up over there. </sentence><sentence id="17">I was raised over there, went to <span class="building">school</span>, and I lived over there until the last days of the liquidation of the Jewish population in <span class="populated place">Czestochowa</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="25">Q: Tell me about your childhood in <span class="populated place">Czestochowa</span>. </sentence><sentence id="26">What was it like living there. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="29">A: My childhood was not a rosy one. </sentence><sentence id="30">I come from poor parents. </sentence><sentence id="31">What do you mean, poor parents? </sentence><sentence id="32">In..in <span class="country">Poland</span>, I would say about 70 percent, maybe more than 70 percent of the population were poor. </sentence><sentence id="33">Poor, I mean poor. </sentence><sentence id="34">Actually, they had no food on the <span class="spatial object">table</span>. </sentence><sentence id="35">And to get a job was very, very hard, especially for the Jewish people. </sentence><sentence id="36">Jewish people were not employed by the government, not by the <span class="building">legislature</span>. </sentence><sentence id="37">Their trade was tailor, shoemaker, some of them a barber, hatmaker. </sentence><sentence id="38">Even in <span class="building">factory</span>, in <span class="building">Jewish factory</span> where the people they owned the <span class="building">factory</span>, also Jews, they didn't want to employ Jewish people. </sentence><sentence id="39">Maybe there's some reason, maybe not. </sentence><sentence id="40">Some of them they didn't want to have the sin on their own conscious because he has to work on Saturday. </sentence><sentence id="41">So the best thing for them was not to employ them. </sentence><sentence id="42">So and actually, it was very, very hard...the upbringing. </sentence><sentence id="43">In my <span class="building">house</span>, my father he married off my mother. </sentence><sentence id="44">He was married. </sentence><sentence id="45">His wife____ passed away. </sentence><sentence id="46">He had a son and a daughter. </sentence><sentence id="47">I have never seen them. </sentence><sentence id="48">When my father married my mother, my brother left for <span class="populated place">Paris</span>. </sentence><sentence id="49">After that when I was about 9 months old, my sister left, also for <span class="populated place">Paris</span>. </sentence><sentence id="50">They lived over there, married, had children, and we remained in the <span class="populated place">city</span> of <span class="populated place">Czestochowa</span>. </sentence><sentence id="51">Why I knew? </sentence><sentence id="52">Because after I got a little older, I wrote letters to them. </sentence><sentence id="53">I knew I have a brother and sister over there. </sentence><sentence id="54">Besides them, my mother had...had me count three brothers and two little girls. </sentence><sentence id="55">The two little girls passed away when they were...one of them was about a year old. </sentence><sentence id="56">Another one was about three years old. </sentence><sentence id="57">The main reason of it, there was no food. </sentence><sentence id="58">There was no milk in the <span class="building">house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="59">There was nothing in the <span class="building">house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="60">Why I think that was the reason, I remember they'd be sick or other thing. </sentence><sentence id="61">My mother tried to help my father whatever she could, but there was no work. </sentence><sentence id="62">On one job, 50 people grabbed it. </sentence><sentence id="63">And that was going on until I, myself and my brother got a little bit older. </sentence><sentence id="64">My brother went to work. </sentence><sentence id="65">He started to work by a relative of ours, shoemaker, which he was a good one. </sentence><sentence id="66">Even by having a trade was a difference between a good and a bad one. </sentence><sentence id="67">So he was working, helping out. </sentence><sentence id="68">And then by the age of 12...when I was 12 years old I couldn't go to learn a trade. </sentence><sentence id="69">I got myself a job in a <span class="building">factory</span> by making dolls. </sentence><sentence id="70">They had somebody over there, liked me, took me in when I was 12 years old. </sentence><sentence id="71">I worked there for 2 and a half years old and then my mother decide and myself that's not a trade for a young man. </sentence><sentence id="72"> Gotta have a real trade. </sentence><sentence id="73">What's the real trade? </sentence><sentence id="74">I had a cousin of mine, he had a <span class="building">barber shop</span>. </sentence><sentence id="75">In my <span class="populated place">town</span>, that's considered as a good trade. </sentence><sentence id="76">Was nice dressed, mixed with nice people, all kind of people they came in, and he took me in to learn. </sentence><sentence id="77">Learning time was 3 years for nothing. </sentence><sentence id="78">Alright, I got a few pennies like you call it here for tips, other things you know._And this I brought into the <span class="building">house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="79">That was after those two kids passed away. </sentence><sentence id="80">And there was a little boy that time. </sentence><sentence id="81">It was about 3 years old. </sentence><sentence id="82">And that's how we got together. </sentence><sentence id="83">We provided for the <span class="building">house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="84">My mother was...I would say not in a bad condition, because food, clothes, even had electric which for that time, it was a big thing. </sentence><sentence id="85">We had a <span class="spatial object">radio</span> in the <span class="building">house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="86">You know, we didn't spend the money like the kids today, throwing it away, because every penny we maked we brought to the <span class="building">house</span>, needed. </sentence><sentence id="87">And that's how we grew up until my brother got married. </sentence><sentence id="88">I myself tried to go to <span class="building">school</span>. </sentence><sentence id="89">I went into a <span class="building">school</span> after the hours of work and I finished it. </sentence><sentence id="90">It's one of the finest <span class="building">schools</span>. </sentence><sentence id="91">And besides that I was very active in an organization. </sentence><sentence id="92">I was active in the Zionist organization...uh...called the ,<span class="building">The Right One</span>, Ben-Gurion's party. </sentence><sentence id="93">I was in the <span class="building">youth group</span>. </sentence><sentence id="94">I was the leader also with them. </sentence><sentence id="95">I remember I led a branch of girls, about 20 some girls....also not young ones, 18, 19 years old in which I was myself at that same age. </sentence><sentence id="96">Was the <span class="dlf">branch</span>. </sentence><sentence id="97">You know about the ___. </sentence><sentence id="98">And beside that I was very much in love with books. </sentence><sentence id="99">Up to date, I cannot eat, I cannot go to sleep. </sentence><sentence id="100">I got to have a book. </sentence><sentence id="101">That's my thing. </sentence><sentence id="102">And real I learned by myself. </sentence><sentence id="103">I would say like self education. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="180">Q: Did you go to <span class="building">seder</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="182">A: Huh? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="184">Q: Did you to go seder like everybody? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="186">A: Oh, naturally, every...every child when to seder. </sentence><sentence id="187">Every one went to <span class="building">seder</span>. </sentence><sentence id="188">I myself went to seder for the money because my mother had no money to pay so went into a seder which there was provided by the Jewish ____. </sentence><sentence id="189">You know what that means, the eldest of the Jewish people. </sentence><sentence id="190">And we didn't pay for it, and I learned there. </sentence><sentence id="191">I was very good student. </sentence><sentence id="192">I was very good in the...in a bible and all kind of kings, in ____ which I know up to now very well. </sentence><sentence id="193">And besides that, I was very interested in literature, all kinds. </sentence><sentence id="194">American, French, English. </sentence><sentence id="195">And I know about a lot of it. </sentence><sentence id="196">And so I'd say by the age of 18, start going around with a girl from my <span class="populated place">home town</span>. </sentence><sentence id="197">We were...we were...we would say here in love. </sentence><sentence id="198">Not the same way people here in love. </sentence><sentence id="199">That time was a different style. </sentence><sentence id="200">It's already 50 years ago, don't forget. </sentence><sentence id="201">More than 50 years! </sentence><sentence id="202">So we were going around about 7 years. </sentence><sentence id="203">We couldn't afford to get married. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="222">Q: Tell me about her. </sentence><sentence id="223">What was she like? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="226">A: She was a beautiful girl. </sentence><sentence id="227">Blonde. </sentence><sentence id="228">She was beautiful. </sentence><sentence id="229">In my eyes, you know, well especially when you're alone, every...everything is beautiful. </sentence><sentence id="230">But she was a nice girl, very nice girl. </sentence><sentence id="231">And we're going around and we started, you know, to save for the time when we get married to buy some stuff. </sentence><sentence id="232">We didn't have any money. </sentence><sentence id="233">It wasn't like...it wasn't like here. </sentence><sentence id="234">You want this and that. </sentence><sentence id="235">And we saved up until the time came in 1939. </sentence><sentence id="236">And that was the bitter time had come. </sentence><sentence id="237">Everything was separated. </sentence><sentence id="238">The German came into the <span class="populated place">town</span> on a Friday morning, September, the Ist, the war started. </sentence><sentence id="239">Our <span class="populated place">town</span> was almost on the <span class="dlf">border</span> with the German, was 4, 5 kilometers which is about 3 miles from the <span class="dlf">border</span>. </sentence><sentence id="240">In the morning, they were already in the <span class="populated place">city</span>. </sentence><sentence id="241">So we lived...separated. </sentence><sentence id="242">My brother was living with his wife. </sentence><sentence id="243">He had a son about 4 years old, and I was living with my mother and my younger brother and my girlfriend was with her parents. </sentence><sentence id="244">Different place! </sentence><sentence id="245">To tell you the story how it was, you know, the first thing when the...when the German came in, it was not a <span class="spatial object">ball</span>. </sentence><sentence id="246">First thing, they came in on a Friday, I mentioned it. </sentence><sentence id="247">Friday, it was quiet. </sentence><sentence id="248">At the beginning of the war, everybody start running. </sentence><sentence id="249">We did to. </sentence><sentence id="250">We ran about 40 kilometers, walking. </sentence><sentence id="251">Me, my wife...not my wife, I mean my mother, my little brother, also my girlfriend was with me. </sentence><sentence id="252">And then we decided where will we <span class="building">camp</span>? </sentence><sentence id="253">The Germans were there already. </sentence><sentence id="254">So we...where we going to hang around? </sentence><sentence id="255">Decided to go back. </sentence><sentence id="256">Went back...came back to the same <span class="interior space">apartment</span>. </sentence><sentence id="257">Monday morning, like a magic thing happened. </sentence><sentence id="258">The Germans were all over the place. </sentence><sentence id="259">Everybody out of the <span class="building">house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="260">And they start dragging the men, just the men, to public places, like <span class="building">school</span>, <span class="building">synagogue</span>, <span class="building">churches</span> and open place on the <span class="building">market</span>. </sentence><sentence id="261">We were a couple of days and but seeing that stuff, shooting, killing some people, a lot of people. </sentence><sentence id="262">Matter of fact a friend of mine which was together with me in <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span> by the name of Rappaport, Moshe. </sentence><sentence id="263">His father was killed the first one. </sentence><sentence id="264">First _____ from <span class="populated place">Czestochowa</span>. </sentence><sentence id="265">His name was Rappaport, Lazer Rappaport... And a lot of them. </sentence><sentence id="266">We...we were over there about 3 days. </sentence><sentence id="267">They took away couple of thousand people and the rest of them they sent back <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="310">Q: Can you describe what you saw? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="312">A: What...what was like? </sentence><sentence id="313">I'll tell you what...excuse me. </sentence><sentence id="314">I'll tell you what was like. </sentence><sentence id="315">You come into the <span class="building">house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="316">Imagine yourself. </sentence><sentence id="317">You were in my shoes. </sentence><sentence id="318">Somebody comes in without anything, without any reason. </sentence><sentence id="319">Out from the <span class="building">house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="320">Not allowed to take water, not allowed to take bread...bread, not allowed to take anything. </sentence><sentence id="321">And in the <span class="dlf">street</span>. </sentence><sentence id="322">In the <span class="dlf">street</span> with guns, they start running after you until..-until you got to the place. </sentence><sentence id="323">I myself...they took me into a <span class="building">church</span>. </sentence><sentence id="324">The <span class="building">church</span> was the...the holy...the name was the <span class="building">Holy Family CHurch</span>. </sentence><sentence id="325">We had a big <span class="building">church</span>. </sentence><sentence id="326">We had a very big <span class="building">church</span>. </sentence><sentence id="327">And we went over there in that <span class="building">church</span>. </sentence><sentence id="328">They weren't...the people they couldn't get so fast in in the back of the <span class="building">church</span>. </sentence><sentence id="329">They got killed in the front going in through the <span class="dlf">door</span>. </sentence><sentence id="330">And they killed a lot of people that way. </sentence><sentence id="331">We were there. </sentence><sentence id="332">There was no food. </sentence><sentence id="333">There was no <span class="env feature">water</span>. </sentence><sentence id="334">There was no places, you know, for the humanbeing with __.We were over there, a priest. </sentence><sentence id="335">I'm gonna mention him. </sentence><sentence id="336">His name was . </sentence><sentence id="337">He was one of the finest gentlemen of the Catholic priest I have ever met. </sentence><sentence id="338">He said to us, "Children, never mind you're without any <span class="building">church</span>. </sentence><sentence id="339">You do whatever you can. </sentence><sentence id="340">You...this place or that thing, as a...you know, and the other place. </sentence><sentence id="341">He tried to bring in <span class="env feature">water</span> for us. </sentence><sentence id="342">And really, I admired him as a gentlemen. </sentence><sentence id="343">He knew that we are Jews which was also some Christian people living in those neighbors, mostly they took his from the Jewish neighbor. </sentence><sentence id="344">Let's say...I would say...I don't know about <span class="populated place">Washington</span>...Let's say when you this side, this that, that kind of a neighbor they took. </sentence><sentence id="345">We're there for 3 days, came out from over there, went back <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="346">Thank God, everybody's fine. </sentence><sentence id="347">My brother was in a different place. </sentence><sentence id="348">He also came <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="349">I was working in a <span class="building">barber shop</span> about when I came to the age 17, 18, my boss passed away. </sentence><sentence id="350">His wife passed away, and the family...they decided to sell the <span class="building">shop</span> to me because I was working there. </sentence><sentence id="351">I was working there for about 4 years. </sentence><sentence id="352">And was 20 years I bought that <span class="building">shop</span>. </sentence><sentence id="353">Not the money that I had. </sentence><sentence id="354">I had no money, but there was another <span class="building">barber</span> which he had a little bit of money. </sentence><sentence id="355">He came in with me as a partner, and we owned that <span class="building">shop</span> from I would say 37, 38 until 1942 we were partners. </sentence><sentence id="356">A very wonderful man as a partner. </sentence><sentence id="357">Very wonderful man. </sentence><sentence id="358">And that's how we lived. </sentence><sentence id="359">Every one...every <span class="building">barber</span> had a quota for taking care of the Jewish people...people they worked for the government. </sentence><sentence id="360">They worked for the <span class="building">Judenrat</span>, so we had a quota about a week, 30, 35 people to shave them, to cut hair without money. </sentence><sentence id="361">We did it. </sentence><sentence id="362">So we were not obligated to go dig <span class="dlf">ditches</span> or other thing for the German. </sentence><sentence id="363">And for us that was good thing. </sentence><sentence id="364">At least we were emploved.. And we had a card that we...uh...that we are not obligated. </sentence><sentence id="365">And that what was going on until May 41. </sentence><sentence id="366">May 41, they decided to make a <span class="populated place">ghetto</span>. </sentence><sentence id="367">So that call in the language of our <span class="populated place">town</span>, it calls the big <span class="populated place">ghetto</span>. </sentence><sentence id="368">Why the big <span class="populated place">ghetto</span>? </sentence><sentence id="369">Because was many <span class="dlf">streets</span> included in the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span>. </sentence><sentence id="370">Also the <span class="dlf">streets</span> were more wealthy people lived, not just the <span class="populated place">neighborhood</span> where the poor people lived, also where... And from that <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> nobody could leave. </sentence><sentence id="371">Nobody could go in like Catholic people. </sentence><sentence id="372">Situation was going from bad to worst. </sentence><sentence id="373">It was impossible to get along. </sentence><sentence id="374">For instance, before 1939 a loaf of bread, in <span class="country">Poland</span> was a loaf of bread 5 pounds. </sentence><sentence id="375">The price of it was 50 cents. </sentence><sentence id="376">During 1941, the price of it was already 15 slotas. </sentence><sentence id="377">In my trade where the price of getting a hair cut was 50 cents, getting a shave 25 cents, the price didn't go up. </sentence><sentence id="378">Instead to get from a customer one loaf of bread, we had to do more than 15 customers for the same thing. </sentence><sentence id="379">Well, naturally was the situation was very bad. </sentence><sentence id="380">But we lived and some kind of hope it's gonna end. </sentence><sentence id="381">One day it's gonna end. </sentence><sentence id="382">Everybody knows that, this...that. </sentence><sentence id="383">We're gonna pray. </sentence><sentence id="384">It's gonna end. </sentence><sentence id="385">It didn't end. </sentence><sentence id="386">That was going on from May 41 until September the 22nd, 1942. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="463">Q: Were you married during this time? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="465">A: Yes. </sentence><sentence id="466">I got married in 1940. </sentence><sentence id="467">I got married 1940 because we couldn't go from one place to the other. </sentence><sentence id="468">Our dating...the time...we were almost 7 years together, so we decided to get married and to live together. </sentence><sentence id="469">We got married. </sentence><sentence id="470">Wasn't a marriage... marriage like they make it now, but we married off. </sentence><sentence id="471">Two years after that, my wife she got pregnant and we had a son. </sentence><sentence id="472">Was born September the 31st, 1942. </sentence><sentence id="473">That is almost 20 days...not 20...little bit...only 20 days...little over 20 days when it started the liquidation of the Jewish people in <span class="populated place">Czestochowa</span>. </sentence><sentence id="474">But between 41 May - September 42, they took out a lot of people. </sentence><sentence id="475">They send them...they put them places, especially young people. </sentence><sentence id="476">They sent them to work which most of them did not return and it was not always in that big <span class="populated place">ghetto</span>. </sentence><sentence id="477">But we could live with communicate also with the outside people, with the...with the Polish people. </sentence><sentence id="478">Some of them, you know, not the German...they didn't look, they looked away they didn't see it, they could bring in some stuff. </sentence><sentence id="479">But when the liquidation started on September the 22nd, it was exactly a day after Yom Kippur in 1942. </sentence><sentence id="480">At Yom Kippur 1942, we were at the <span class="building">prayer house</span> and people came in from work because people they had to work even on Yom Kippur. </sentence><sentence id="481">They said at the <span class="building">station</span>, the <span class="building">railroad station</span>, there is a lot of <span class="spatial object">cattle trains</span> and there are Ukrainians around. </sentence><sentence id="482">We heard the word Ukrainians, we know something it's going to happen. </sentence><sentence id="483">So the prayer was interrupted. </sentence><sentence id="484">We seen going here and there, looking what's going to be, where we're going to go. </sentence><sentence id="485">We know already that they're going to take us away. </sentence><sentence id="486">They're going to take us somewhere. </sentence><sentence id="487">Middle of the night, around 12, | o'clock, all of a sudden, all the lights were on, which normally since 1939 was not allowed to have any light in <span class="populated place">city</span> or in <span class="interior space">apartment</span> and here the lights...lit lamps were on bright, shining. </sentence><sentence id="488">Four o'clock in the morning, the Germans started to take out the Jewish people. </sentence><sentence id="489">They started first the poorest <span class="populated place">neighborhood</span> where the poor people lived. </sentence><sentence id="490">That was on September, the 23rd, 1942. </sentence><sentence id="491">I was living with my wife, my mother, my little brother, child of mine in that poor stretch called ___, which was the poorest <span class="populated place">neighborhood</span>. </sentence><sentence id="492">They took us out to the <span class="spatial object">transport</span>...taking out you know you take people they transport who wasn't fast enough got killed and left on the <span class="dlf">road</span>. </sentence><sentence id="493">We were the lucky ones. </sentence><sentence id="494">We maked to the <span class="spatial object">transport</span>. </sentence><sentence id="495">When we came to the <span class="building">railroad station</span> and there was over there I would say thousands of people. </sentence><sentence id="496">Thousands and thousands of people! </sentence><sentence id="497">They had, accordingly that I know, over 60 <span class="spatial object">wagons</span>, <span class="spatial object">cattle wagons</span>. </sentence><sentence id="498">Each one contained over a hundred people. </sentence><sentence id="499">Children were not counted because the children... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="535">Q: Excuse me. </sentence><sentence id="536">I want to stop this and we will go back. </sentence><sentence id="537">Would you stop the tape, Bonnie? </sentence><sentence id="538">The PA is coming through into the <span class="interior space">studio</span> and will be on the tape, and I can't have it. </sentence><sentence id="539">Alright? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="545">And this is not the time for it. </sentence><sentence id="546">Bonnie, just do it. </sentence><sentence id="547">Just do it. </sentence><sentence id="548">We will back up a minute. </sentence><sentence id="549">Wait one minute until they do it. </sentence><sentence id="550">I'm sorry. </sentence><sentence id="551">This is not the time for this. </sentence><sentence id="552">Would you resume the tape as quickly as possible please? </sentence><sentence id="553">Bonnie, I suggest that we proceed while somebody else goes the checking on that to find the source of that. </sentence><sentence id="554">This is no time to stop, so if you'll tell me when the film's rolling. </sentence><sentence id="555">Barney, I want to move please. </sentence><sentence id="556">I want to start now. </sentence><sentence id="557">Alright, tell her. </sentence><sentence id="558">Bonnie, I would like to start now please. </sentence><sentence id="559">I'm sorry about this. </sentence><sentence id="560">They had to check the <span class="dlf">wires</span>. </sentence><sentence id="561">Alright, Bonnie I would like to...can we start this while someone else deals with it. </sentence><sentence id="562">Okay. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="581">Q: Alright. </sentence><sentence id="582">The tape is on. </sentence><sentence id="583">I'm sorry about that. </sentence><sentence id="584">Can we go back a little and can you start again your description of what it was like when you were rounded up and taken? </sentence><sentence id="585">Is that possible? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="591">A: As of...as of...as of 39? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="593">Q: No. </sentence><sentence id="594">No. </sentence><sentence id="595">No. </sentence><sentence id="596">You are in the <span class="building">synagogue</span>. </sentence><sentence id="597">It's after Yom Kippur. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="603">A: Oh. </sentence><sentence id="604">Alright. </sentence><sentence id="605">Yes. </sentence><sentence id="606">So when we were taken out from the <span class="building">house</span>, they took us to the <span class="building">railroad station</span>. </sentence><sentence id="607">And on both sides there were German Ukrainian. </sentence><sentence id="608">Whoever couldn't walk that fast, they got rid of him by killing. </sentence><sentence id="609">So we went in to the <span class="building">railroad station</span>. </sentence><sentence id="610">It was not the general <span class="building">railroad station</span>. </sentence><sentence id="611">It was the <span class="building">railroad station</span> for cattle. </sentence><sentence id="612">And over there, they pushed in people. </sentence><sentence id="613">They threw in children, one on top of the other until they're loaded. </sentence><sentence id="614">Those ones...over 60 <span class="spatial object">wagons</span>. </sentence><sentence id="615">Myself and my wife, the kid, my mother, and the little brother, we couldn't go in. </sentence><sentence id="616">It was about 2,000 more people. </sentence><sentence id="617">They couldn't go in because they had too many people already in the <span class="spatial object">wagons</span> so they decided to send in...send us back <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="618">Now this was unbelievable a story. </sentence><sentence id="619">All of a sudden, people start to panic. </sentence><sentence id="620">People start to dance. </sentence><sentence id="621">Happened? </sentence><sentence id="622">They were the lucky ones. </sentence><sentence id="623">They got their amount what they need to be taking out from the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span>, and the rest they will not touch anymore. </sentence><sentence id="624">The people they were together, the families were together, they were very happy because nobody was missing between them. </sentence><sentence id="625">People were taking away like brothers or sisters or parents...if somebody remained of them, there was crying going on in the <span class="populated place">city</span>. </sentence><sentence id="626">We were sent <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="627">We were sent <span class="building">home</span>, but one thing whoever could understand the situation was not finished. </sentence><sentence id="628">They didn't take away the Germans. </sentence><sentence id="629">They didn't take away the Ukrainians, and the light was still on for day and night. </sentence><sentence id="630">So we know something is going to happen to us again. </sentence><sentence id="631">We didn't have to wait too long because on the 25th, 4 days after the first <span class="spatial object">transport</span>, the same thing was going on again. </sentence><sentence id="632">September, the 25th, 1942, which on the Jewish calendar was___, again they took us out. </sentence><sentence id="633">Now this time we didn't go straight to the <span class="building">railroad station</span> to be sent off. </sentence><sentence id="634">We went to the <span class="building">market</span> which over there the German the head man from the Gestapo was the man over there by the name of Degenhof, he was the leader from them. </sentence><sentence id="635">He was the murderer of the...not only this <span class="populated place">city</span>, but more <span class="populated place">cities</span>. </sentence><sentence id="636">And that was...when he decided who should live and who should die. </sentence><sentence id="637">With the point of the finger, he said this way, the other way. </sentence><sentence id="638">A little bit younger, not too many asking questions, "What is your trade?" </sentence><sentence id="639">Somebody had a trade like electro mechanic, which was very few people in our <span class="populated place">town</span>, or engineering, other thing, to the right. </sentence><sentence id="640">Ninety five percent of the people which they took out from the <span class="building">houses</span>, he pointed to the left which means to the <span class="spatial object">transport</span>. </sentence><sentence id="641">But before that, it is another thing I have to mention. </sentence><sentence id="642">People were running around crazy, starting to get a paper from the Judenrat and also from the Germans that...all kind of paper: red, green, with a stamp, without a stamp and everybody tried to do the best even with money to get the right paper. </sentence><sentence id="643">But nobody know what the right paper was. </sentence><sentence id="644">Each one was happy because he's got the right paper. </sentence><sentence id="645">Coming in to that place where he decided... <span class="building">Degenhof</span> decided who's going to go right, who's going to go left, the paper was not important. </sentence><sentence id="646">It was just worthless. </sentence><sentence id="647">They took the paper, tear it up. </sentence><sentence id="648">So I was with my mother and the kid, my wife and my brother, and it was most of my family who went to the left to the <span class="spatial object">transport</span>. </sentence><sentence id="649">Went in to the <span class="spatial object">transport</span> where the <span class="spatial object">cattle transport</span> they had, and they took us in to the <span class="spatial object">wagon</span>. </sentence><sentence id="650">That was the last time I saw the <span class="populated place">city</span> of <span class="populated place">Czestochowa</span> before I came back from <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span>. </sentence><sentence id="651">Now to tell you a story in that <span class="spatial object">cattle train</span>, I don't know how to start and I don't know how to end because it was like living through a whole life in that thing. </sentence><sentence id="652">First thing, people one on top of the other. </sentence><sentence id="653">You couldn't stand straight. </sentence><sentence id="654">You couldn't bend. </sentence><sentence id="655">You couldn't sit down. </sentence><sentence id="656">It was just like one on top of the other. </sentence><sentence id="657">They took us 6 o'clock in the morning into that <span class="spatial object">train</span>. </sentence><sentence id="658">We were over there until about finished it loaded with all of us 2 hours maybe, more than that. </sentence><sentence id="659">Then they took us around back to the main <span class="building">station</span> and over there we were waiting a time. </sentence><sentence id="660">Across the <span class="building">railroad station</span>, there was another <span class="spatial object">train</span> that passengers...Polish people, they could go. </sentence><sentence id="661">They could ride, handle anything they wanted. </sentence><sentence id="662">When we stood each other, happened I was the lucky one...I was near a little <span class="dlf">window</span>, where was with <span class="dlf">wire</span> closed around that people shouldn't be able to escape. </sentence><sentence id="663">I looked through. </sentence><sentence id="664">Most of the people what they did to us, they spit on us. </sentence><sentence id="665">It happened one girl I know her. </sentence><sentence id="666">She worked for a Jewish family from my...not the <span class="building">house</span> where I lived but <span class="building">house</span> where I had my <span class="building">barber shop</span>. </sentence><sentence id="667">When she saw me she said, "Oh, you are too here?" </sentence><sentence id="668">And in a way, she started crying. </sentence><sentence id="669">But more than 90 percent of the passengers in the other side of the <span class="spatial object">train</span>, they spit on us. </sentence><sentence id="670">And so we start rolling...start rolling to went nobody knew where we're going. </sentence><sentence id="671">In the middle of the night, was already about 18 hours in the <span class="spatial object">train</span>, we came to a side <span class="building">station</span> which they pointed out this was <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span>. </sentence><sentence id="672">Stood over there for awhile and inside that <span class="spatial object">train</span>, with God's help, it was hot like <span class="region">Hell</span> and that was almost the end of September where usually in <span class="country">Poland</span>, end of September is nice and cool. </sentence><sentence id="673">But at that time, just God helped them, not us. </sentence><sentence id="674">After about | o'clock or 2 o'clock start rolling again and we went through <span class="env feature">wilderness</span> and all kind of thing. </sentence><sentence id="675">We came to a halt. </sentence><sentence id="676">I looked out and I see a <span class="spatial object">sign</span> which didn't mean nothing to me. </sentence><sentence id="677">The sign was <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span>. </sentence><sentence id="678">Today, everybody almost knows what that word means. </sentence><sentence id="679">At that time was just a name, not a...a little bit...a tiny little... maybe...maybe it was over there 40 families altogether, all waiting with them. </sentence><sentence id="680">Stayed looking out the <span class="dlf">window</span>. </sentence><sentence id="681">More things came. </sentence><sentence id="682">From other parts of the <span class="country">country</span>. </sentence><sentence id="683">They went in, after about 2 hours they came out. </sentence><sentence id="684">And all the <span class="spatial object">trains</span> empty. </sentence><sentence id="685">Another <span class="spatial object">train</span> also...over 60 <span class="spatial object">trains</span> with the <span class="populated place">town</span> people, they came in. </sentence><sentence id="686">Went in, disappeared, 2 hours came back. </sentence><sentence id="687">And now was the time our <span class="spatial object">train</span> start rolling and we went in. </sentence><sentence id="688"><span class="dlf">Gate</span> opened up, rolled in to the camp of <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span>. </sentence><sentence id="689">10 men over there. </sentence><sentence id="690">We got in over there. </sentence><sentence id="691">The <span class="spatial object">trains</span> didn't go in like, you know, the first goes in. </sentence><sentence id="692">The engineer takes a <span class="spatial object">train</span>, but backwards because the engineer and the people they're working in the <span class="spatial object">locomotive</span> of the <span class="spatial object">train</span>, they shouldn't know what's going on over there. </sentence><sentence id="693">They were not supposed to...to see what is going on. </sentence><sentence id="694">That's why the pushed in the end of the <span class="spatial object">train</span>. </sentence><sentence id="695">And we went in. </sentence><sentence id="696">Out! </sentence><sentence id="697">Started yelling, "Out." </sentence><sentence id="698">It opened up. </sentence><sentence id="699">I don't know how many dead ones was a...in the <span class="spatial object">train</span> because nobody counted we had in our <span class="spatial object">train</span>. </sentence><sentence id="700">We had on out...men on the right side at the open telling... woman at the left side at the <span class="building">barracks</span>. </sentence><sentence id="701">We didn't know what it is. </sentence><sentence id="702">And we didn't believe something what's going wrong. </sentence><sentence id="703">I know something is not usually that this is the last time we see each other. </sentence><sentence id="704">My wife, the kid and my mother went in to that <span class="region">left side</span>. </sentence><sentence id="705">I my...mine little brother was at that time was 13 years old. </sentence><sentence id="706">And some of the Germans, Ukrainian and also the Jewish from the red kommando. " </sentence><sentence id="707">Take off your clothes." </sentence><sentence id="708">Took off the clothes. </sentence><sentence id="709">Start taking off the clothes. </sentence><sentence id="710">All the people did. </sentence><sentence id="711">But myself...I don't know what it happened. </sentence><sentence id="712">A man...a Jewish man which he had a band, a red band, what called a red kommando went through...he recognized someone which was near me and he said, "What are you doing here?" " </sentence><sentence id="713">You see what I'm doing here." </sentence><sentence id="714">So he said to him, "We need a few people. </sentence><sentence id="715">Go to the side." " </sentence><sentence id="716">You need more?" " </sentence><sentence id="717">Yes, need more." </sentence><sentence id="718">They took out about 16, 17 people. </sentence><sentence id="719">I was between them. </sentence><sentence id="720">Now this man which he recognized, he was married to a cousin of mine. </sentence><sentence id="721">They took out his brother-in-laws, three of them; myself; my little brother they couldn't take out because was a kid, 13 years old. </sentence><sentence id="722">And a few more stayed on the side. </sentence><sentence id="723">We didn't see. </sentence><sentence id="724">People went in through the <span class="dlf">gate</span>. </sentence><sentence id="725">Now we know what the <span class="dlf">gate</span> was. </sentence><sentence id="726">It was the way to the <span class="interior space">gas chamber</span> and we have never see them again. </sentence><sentence id="727">That was the first hour we came in. </sentence><sentence id="728">After that, we...the people, 18 or 16 people...more people came in from the...working people what they worked already before in the <span class="interior space">gas chamber</span>, we had a order to clean up the place. </sentence><sentence id="729">Now clean up the place is not something you can take it clean. </sentence><sentence id="730">It was horrible. </sentence><sentence id="731">But in 5, 10 minutes this place had to look spotless. </sentence><sentence id="732">And it looked spotless. </sentence><sentence id="733">Like there was never nobody on the place. </sentence><sentence id="734">So the next <span class="spatial object">transport</span> when it comes in, they shouldn't see what's going on. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="867">Q: You were cleaning up the place? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="869">A: We were cleaning up in the outside. </sentence><sentence id="870">Tell you what mean cleaning up. </sentence><sentence id="871">Taking away all the clothes to those places where the clothes were. </sentence><sentence id="872">Now, not only the clothes, all the papers, all the money, all the...the... whatever somebody had with him. </sentence><sentence id="873">And they had a lot of things with them. </sentence><sentence id="874">Pots and <span class="spatial object">pans</span> they had with them. </sentence><sentence id="875">Other things they had with them. </sentence><sentence id="876">We cleaned that up. </sentence><sentence id="877">Still didn't know what's going on until this guy with the red bands, when we asked him what's happened to them? </sentence><sentence id="878">He said, "Be happy we're here because they're finished." </sentence><sentence id="879">At night when they took us into the <span class="building">barrack</span>...the <span class="building">barrack</span> was near, I was just about... would say 50 meters from the <span class="dlf">gate</span> to the <span class="interior space">gas chamber</span>. </sentence><sentence id="880">It was at the same place where the people undressed themselves. </sentence><sentence id="881">The men undressed themselves, there was a <span class="dlf">well</span>....just take out whatever... And over there we had the <span class="building">barrack</span> we went to live in. </sentence><sentence id="882">Why I mention the <span class="dlf">well</span>, because I tell you what the <span class="dlf">well</span> was. </sentence><sentence id="883">People they knew already, not from the beginning like from <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span> they transport...they started on the 22nd of July 1942, so people they know already what <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span> is. </sentence><sentence id="884">That is not a <span class="populated place">working camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="885">That is not a <span class="populated place">concentration camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="886">That is <span class="populated place">extermination camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="887">From there nobody goes out alive. </sentence><sentence id="888">The minute when they came in, we find over there...took out from over there from that well, over 50 people. </sentence><sentence id="889">They jumped in. </sentence><sentence id="890">Instead to go into the <span class="interior space">gas chamber</span>, they just jumped into the <span class="dlf">well</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="913">Q: Jumped into the <span class="dlf">well</span>. </sentence><sentence id="914">I'm sorry. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="917">A: The <span class="dlf">well</span>. </sentence><sentence id="918">Yes. </sentence><sentence id="919">They drowned themselves. </sentence><sentence id="920">Took them out and that <span class="env feature">water</span> we used to drink. </sentence><sentence id="921">Nobody got sick. </sentence><sentence id="922">Nothing happened. </sentence><sentence id="923">At night, couldn't sleep. </sentence><sentence id="924">Some of us which were...there were religious people and they found out that their parents or their wife or their children were killed which they didn't take out...people...where they're people which they have children. </sentence><sentence id="925">Mostly they took out people 25, 26, 28 years old. </sentence><sentence id="926">Some of them they were religious and they start saying the traditional Kiddish. </sentence><sentence id="927">That was the first night I was over there. </sentence><sentence id="928">In the morning, 5 o'clock the morning, the order. </sentence><sentence id="929">Out! </sentence><sentence id="930">Went out. </sentence><sentence id="931">Stayed in <span class="dlf">line</span> to work. </sentence><sentence id="932">What was the work? </sentence><sentence id="933">The work in <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span> like mostly was those clothes which were there were taking away from the people the night before, they day before they killed and there was piles up on the big places with clothes. </sentence><sentence id="934">They had to be divided. </sentence><sentence id="935">Like coat to coat, shoes to shoes, shirts, and also the quality of it. </sentence><sentence id="936">A cotton, other things, wool...that was the job. </sentence><sentence id="937">We called it sort kommando. </sentence><sentence id="938">Maybe you heard that name. </sentence><sentence id="939">Maybe not. </sentence><sentence id="940">So we worked over there. </sentence><sentence id="941">I myself I was a barber. </sentence><sentence id="942">Then at the third day or so it came...it came another order. </sentence><sentence id="943">They need <span class="building">barbers</span>. </sentence><sentence id="944">It was <span class="populated place">mine town</span> between the 16 people they took out, there was one more <span class="building">barber</span>. </sentence><sentence id="945">But I had some with me friends ____ you do. </sentence><sentence id="946">You're gonna be <span class="building">barber</span>. </sentence><sentence id="947">They took also from other places, mostly from <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span>. </sentence><sentence id="948">They got themselves about 14, 15 <span class="building">barbers</span>. </sentence><sentence id="949">And they took us in to the other side of the place which is called <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span> No. </sentence><sentence id="950">2. </sentence><sentence id="951"><span class="populated place">Treblinka</span> No. </sentence><sentence id="952">2 means only the work by dead people in the <span class="interior space">gas chamber</span>. </sentence><sentence id="953">What they wanted us to do is to cut off the woman's hair. </sentence><sentence id="954">They took us in to the <span class="interior space">gas chamber</span>...in the <span class="interior space">gas chamber</span> before they gassed them. </sentence><sentence id="955">There were <span class="spatial object">benches</span>, about 20 <span class="spatial object">benches</span>...maybe less. </sentence><sentence id="956">And on a row of <span class="spatial object">benches</span> women were sitting and the barber went through cutting hair, with me cutting hair. </sentence><sentence id="957">The way the commandant...he was Jewish who...the way I know after that...I find out that he was converted but that doesn't mean anything. </sentence><sentence id="958">His name was <span class="populated place">Glesk</span>. </sentence><sentence id="959">Maybe you heard the name. </sentence><sentence id="960"><span class="populated place">Eugene Glesk</span>. </sentence><sentence id="961">He was the commandant of <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span>. </sentence><sentence id="962">He was a very nice man. </sentence><sentence id="963">Very fine gentleman. </sentence><sentence id="964">He came over. </sentence><sentence id="965">He had a speech to us. </sentence><sentence id="966">He said, "Look, people. </sentence><sentence id="967">I don't want that the woman should know that they're going to be gassed. </sentence><sentence id="968">Make believe you're giving them a hair cut. </sentence><sentence id="969">They...they're going in to take a <span class="interior space">shower</span>. </sentence><sentence id="970">It is...take a bunch of hair from here. </sentence><sentence id="971">Take a bunch of hair from here. </sentence><sentence id="972">Don't take off all the hair. </sentence><sentence id="973">Don't make them look like monkeys. </sentence><sentence id="974">And so we did it. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1034">Q: Tell me what it was like? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1036">A: What was like it? </sentence><sentence id="1037">We had scissors. </sentence><sentence id="1038">From them we took bunches of hair. </sentence><sentence id="1039">Cut off. </sentence><sentence id="1040">Threw on the <span class="interior space">floor</span> to the side, and about 2 minutes have to be finished. </sentence><sentence id="1041">Not even 2 minutes be...because there was a <span class="dlf">line</span> waiting to come up the next group. </sentence><sentence id="1042">And that's how we worked. </sentence><sentence id="1043">Inside it was very painful. </sentence><sentence id="1044">Most painful was because some of the <span class="building">barbers</span> they recognized their dear ones, like wives, mothers, even grandmothers. </sentence><sentence id="1045">Can you imagine that you have to cut their hair and not to tell them a word because you were not allowed. </sentence><sentence id="1046">If you say a word that they going to..uh..be gassed in 5 or 7 minutes later, there would be a panic over there and they would be killed too. </sentence><sentence id="1047">After that, the <span class="spatial object">transport</span> was finished. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1060">Q: Excuse me. </sentence><sentence id="1061">I'd not to leave the <span class="interior space">gas chambers</span> for a minute. </sentence><sentence id="1062">Can you tell me a little more? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="1066">You've talked about a friend. </sentence><sentence id="1067"> Tape #2 </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1070">Q: You started to tell me about your barber friends who worked with you in the <span class="interior space">gas chamber</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="1072">Would you tell me about some of them and some of the families that they met there? </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1073">A: It was just families like any other family. </sentence><sentence id="1074">But the most thing it hurts when you know people. </sentence><sentence id="1075">When a <span class="spatial object">transport</span> came in, you don't know the people. </sentence><sentence id="1076">Those are people, but when it comes in somebody you associate or you are related, that's an entirely different thing. </sentence><sentence id="1077">It hurts a lot more. </sentence><sentence id="1078">We have..[ have friend. </sentence><sentence id="1079">We worked together. </sentence><sentence id="1080">We were friend in the same <span class="populated place">town</span> together. </sentence><sentence id="1081">Was a barber, a very good barber too. </sentence><sentence id="1082">And he was working <span class="interior space">gas chamber</span> with me. </sentence><sentence id="1083">It happened that there came in one time his sister, one time his wife, came in his sister-in-law same thing. </sentence><sentence id="1084">He start hugging and this and that. </sentence><sentence id="1085">To take a half a minute more with her than with any other one. </sentence><sentence id="1086">But this thing has to be done. </sentence><sentence id="1087">He couldn't help himself. </sentence><sentence id="1088">It was very hard. </sentence><sentence id="1089">It was very, very horrible. </sentence><sentence id="1090">But any other way it was, you get killed. </sentence><sentence id="1091">Which it happened. </sentence><sentence id="1092">Now let me...let me tell you a story. </sentence><sentence id="1093">I had a very close a friend of mine. </sentence><sentence id="1094">I worked with him together for years. </sentence><sentence id="1095">His name was <span class="building">Dorfman Slamic</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1096">Very fine gentleman. </sentence><sentence id="1097">Now two men from all the time where I was over there, they didn't want to stay with us together and work together. </sentence><sentence id="1098">They run into the <span class="interior space">gas chamber</span> by themselves. </sentence><sentence id="1099">He was a barber, and the other one was a neighbor of mine. </sentence><sentence id="1100">He did the same thing. </sentence><sentence id="1101">That's two and the history...when the history of myself being in <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span> . [ </sentence><sentence id="1102">didn't have the guts to do. </sentence><sentence id="1103">I wish I could. </sentence><sentence id="1104">I did not. </sentence><sentence id="1105">But what could he do? </sentence><sentence id="1106">Or get killed! </sentence><sentence id="1107">To go together with him or wait maybe another day. </sentence><sentence id="1108">And I want to tell you something. </sentence><sentence id="1109">If a humanbeing is in a situation like that, he thinks of every second, every minute...maybe...maybe there will be a change. </sentence><sentence id="1110">Maybe something happened. </sentence><sentence id="1111">Maybe there will be a miracle that he will survive. </sentence><sentence id="1112">That people were not ready to get killed. </sentence><sentence id="1113">People were not ready even to try to escape. </sentence><sentence id="1114">And it happened to myself which I organized my escape. </sentence><sentence id="1115">I organized another escape from 11 people which they escaped from <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1116">But people that were not ready for it, they didn't want it. </sentence><sentence id="1117">I had a friend of mine which is...was a leader from the...from the organization of the workers and I approached him. </sentence><sentence id="1118">I said, "I'm planning an escape. </sentence><sentence id="1119">Maybe we'll escape. </sentence><sentence id="1120">You interested?" </sentence><sentence id="1121">He said, "Look, Abe. </sentence><sentence id="1122">I'm here already. </sentence><sentence id="1123">Where I'm gonna go outside to the <span class="building">Pollack</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1124">They will kill." </sentence><sentence id="1125">Which is...was the truth. </sentence><sentence id="1126">It was the truth. " </sentence><sentence id="1127">So I rather stay here. </sentence><sentence id="1128">So it's gonna be, it's gonna be. </sentence><sentence id="1129">I'm gonna live another day...I'm gonna. </sentence><sentence id="1130">If not, be killed." </sentence><sentence id="1131">Now that is one thing. </sentence><sentence id="1132">Another thing is..-which I want to mention..I hear that story many, many times and it hurts me a lot. </sentence><sentence id="1133">I'm going back to this same time that...uh...Jewish people went in like the sheep to the <span class="building">slaughter house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1134">It hurts me a lot about that. </sentence><sentence id="1135">I explain that to you why. </sentence><sentence id="1136">People are not sheep. </sentence><sentence id="1137">The way the Germans are organized to get the people killed is entirely different way. </sentence><sentence id="1138">The first thing of not allowed to go out. </sentence><sentence id="1139">The second thing is of not bring in food. </sentence><sentence id="1140">Then they starve the people. </sentence><sentence id="1141">They take away the clothes from the people. </sentence><sentence id="1142">They take out the <span class="spatial object">furniture</span> from them, the better one. </sentence><sentence id="1143">They take away the...the force, and then to starve them little by little until the people they lost their will to fight even the will to live. </sentence><sentence id="1144">And to them was the same thing. </sentence><sentence id="1145">What I'm gonna lose. </sentence><sentence id="1146">I'm starving here. </sentence><sentence id="1147">I got nothing here. </sentence><sentence id="1148">Maybe if I go away and they would send me somewhere away, they promised...maybe over there I will stay. </sentence><sentence id="1149">And this is entirely a different story than the story like some people they say, here especially people...Jewish people, "Why you went?" </sentence><sentence id="1150">They don't understand that looking at a wife, at looking at a child, and not to have a drop of milk, even a drop of water for them...what could those people do?How could they fight? </sentence><sentence id="1151">And with what? </sentence><sentence id="1152">First thing, you went...somebody was lucky. </sentence><sentence id="1153">He went across the <span class="dlf">gate</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1154">Got killed on the other <span class="region">side</span> because he got paid from the Germans. </sentence><sentence id="1155">He got paid. </sentence><sentence id="1156">For each Jew he got paid a liter of vodka. </sentence><sentence id="1157">That was to them and he got paid with salt. </sentence><sentence id="1158">He got paid with sugar. </sentence><sentence id="1159">And even not for that time he was willing to do because to get rid of a Jew. </sentence><sentence id="1160">And that is not happen to 1, a thousand, or ten thousand. </sentence><sentence id="1161">It happened to lot of them. </sentence><sentence id="1162">The people they didn't go like sheep to the <span class="building">slaughter house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1163">They were already willing to go the last way even to the <span class="interior space">gas chamber</span> because their will was not decided by them. </sentence><sentence id="1164">It was decided by hunger, other thing what they went through. </sentence><sentence id="1165">Sicknesses, all kind. </sentence><sentence id="1166">And now I want to tell you...I want to tell you about the thing...the <span class="interior space">gas chamber</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1167">Always, they ask me already about this thing. </sentence><sentence id="1168">The <span class="interior space">gas chamber</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1169">How it looked? </sentence><sentence id="1170">Very simple. </sentence><sentence id="1171">Was all concrete. </sentence><sentence id="1172">Was no <span class="dlf">windows</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1173">There was nothing in it. </sentence><sentence id="1174">Beside on top of you, there was <span class="dlf">wires</span> and it looked like, you know, the <span class="env feature">water</span> going to come out from it. </sentence><sentence id="1175">Had two <span class="dlf">doors</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1176"><span class="dlf">Steel doors</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1177">From one side and from the other side. </sentence><sentence id="1178">The people went into the <span class="interior space">gas chamber</span> from the one side. </sentence><sentence id="1179">Like myself, I was in it doing the job as a barber. </sentence><sentence id="1180">When it was full the <span class="interior space">gas chamber</span>, the size of it was...1 would say 18 by 18 or 18 by 17. </sentence><sentence id="1181">I didn't measure that time. </sentence><sentence id="1182">Just looked like I would say I look here the <span class="interior space">room</span> around, I wouldn't say exactly how big it is. </sentence><sentence id="1183">And they pushed in as many as they could. </sentence><sentence id="1184">It was not allowed to have the people standing up with their hands down because there is not enough <span class="interior space">room</span>, but when the people raised their hand like that there was more <span class="interior space">room</span> to each other. </sentence><sentence id="1185">And on top of that they throw in kids, 2, 3, 4 years old kids on top of them. </sentence><sentence id="1186">And we came out the whole thing it took I would say between 5 and 7 minutes. </sentence><sentence id="1187">The <span class="dlf">door</span> opened up, not from the side they went in but the side on the other side and from the other side the...the group...people working in <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span> No. </sentence><sentence id="1188">2 which their job was only about dead people. </sentence><sentence id="1189">They took out the corpses. </sentence><sentence id="1190">Some of them dead and some of them still alive. </sentence><sentence id="1191">They dragged them to the <span class="dlf">ditches</span>, and over there they covered them. </sentence><sentence id="1192">They digged <span class="dlf">ditches</span> and they covered them. </sentence><sentence id="1193">That was the beginning of <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span>, the time when I was there. </sentence><sentence id="1194">Later, they changed the situation over there by killing people the same way, but not take them to the <span class="dlf">ditches</span> but to take them to be burned, to pile them on top of the other top, they burned. </sentence><sentence id="1195">It was for those people... brought you the picture. </sentence><sentence id="1196">Three of them, they worked only by dead people. </sentence><sentence id="1197">I myself which I worked in <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span> No. </sentence><sentence id="1198">1, was little bit easier. </sentence><sentence id="1199">Why was it easier? </sentence><sentence id="1200">Because we...the people working in <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span> No. </sentence><sentence id="1201">1...1, we took in the <span class="spatial object">transports</span> living people. </sentence><sentence id="1202">All living people. </sentence><sentence id="1203">And from living people, we got something. </sentence><sentence id="1204">We went through a <span class="interior space">pocket</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1205">We find a piece...a piece of bread. </sentence><sentence id="1206">We find sometime a bottle of water which was a really...some of them they brought in other thing to eat, but over there those people they worked in <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span> No. </sentence><sentence id="1207">2, they had no chance. </sentence><sentence id="1208">All they got is naked people going in and dead people taking out from the <span class="interior space">gas chamber</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1346">Q: How long did you work as a barber in the <span class="interior space">gas chamber</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1348">A: In the <span class="interior space">gas chamber</span> we were working as a barber over there between 2...little more than 2 weeks. </sentence><sentence id="1349">Not for 3 weeks. </sentence><sentence id="1350">And then they decided that the barbers will not go in anymore to the <span class="interior space">gas chamber</span> to cut off the hair of the woman over there, but in the undressing <span class="building">barracks</span>, they divided a part...let's say like you take here, divide a part and on this side they put the same thing. </sentence><sentence id="1351"><span class="spatial object">Benches</span> around and we cut the hair off, not in the <span class="interior space">gas chamber</span> anymore. </sentence><sentence id="1352">That was the last time...the 3...the 2 or 3 weeks we worked over there, we worked. </sentence><sentence id="1353">Nobody else worked more from <span class="building">Barrack</span> No. </sentence><sentence id="1354">| because they did not allow it. </sentence><sentence id="1355">It was a <span class="dlf">gate</span> between <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span> | and <span class="populated place">Treblinka 2</span> to the <span class="interior space">gas chamber</span>, also with <span class="dlf">barbed wires</span> and it was some kind like <span class="env feature">trees</span>, other thing through the <span class="dlf">wire</span> it shouldn't be visible. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1364">Q: Abe, I need to ask you, if you can, before you...before we leave and...and go to this other job because now we don't know enough. </sentence><sentence id="1365">Can you tell us...during those 2 weeks you were in the <span class="interior space">gas chamber</span> working and I know it's hard, but can you tell us about some of the other people working in the <span class="interior space">gas chamber</span> with you. </sentence><sentence id="1366">Your friends first. </sentence><sentence id="1367">What...what who were they and what did they do? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1372">A: They were common people like myself....growing up together. </sentence><sentence id="1373">They were people I know. </sentence><sentence id="1374">They're the people I know. </sentence><sentence id="1375">Like there were people from <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span>, people from other places I never knew. </sentence><sentence id="1376">We just met over there. </sentence><sentence id="1377">Same like I say about those people. </sentence><sentence id="1378">Some of them I don't know. </sentence><sentence id="1379">And like...uh... you know, ___ I mentioned to you. </sentence><sentence id="1380">I never...I never knew him. </sentence><sentence id="1381">I saw him in <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1382">So the people I knew...what kind of people they were? </sentence><sentence id="1383">I'd say mostly were people...hard working people. </sentence><sentence id="1384">One of them specially was a man...he was a fireman. </sentence><sentence id="1385">Matter of fact, he was related to Danny Kaye because Danny Kaye come from our place, his parents. </sentence><sentence id="1386">And his name was also Daniel Kamiski which was the name of...uh...Danny Kaye. </sentence><sentence id="1387">He wasn't a barber. </sentence><sentence id="1388">I took him in. </sentence><sentence id="1389">He was a nice man. </sentence><sentence id="1390">He was next to me standing. </sentence><sentence id="1391">And they were looking for a <span class="building">barber</span> and I said, "Danny, how about you." </sentence><sentence id="1392">Fine. </sentence><sentence id="1393">What's happening?They go in. </sentence><sentence id="1394">Because over there, he did that job. </sentence><sentence id="1395">He wasn't in the eyes of the German which another thing I have to tell you. </sentence><sentence id="1396">People working in <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span>, there wasn't a job that you work, you gonna work tomorrow. </sentence><sentence id="1397">Every day they changed the people they worked there. </sentence><sentence id="1398">If somebody worked in <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span> a week, he was an old worker. </sentence><sentence id="1399">He was very old because he worked there, he survived a week. </sentence><sentence id="1400">Mostly they did...they changed. </sentence><sentence id="1401">Every day they killed 2, 3 hundred, 4 hundred people of the people they worked in <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span> and from the <span class="spatial object">transport</span> arriving, like myself they took out, they took out other people. </sentence><sentence id="1402">So they were working over there the same way. </sentence><sentence id="1403">And those people that I know they worked with me as a barber. </sentence><sentence id="1404">The same they did. </sentence><sentence id="1405">The same thing as I did. </sentence><sentence id="1406">They had over there sometime their sisters coming, and I said it before. </sentence><sentence id="1407">They had to do a job. </sentence><sentence id="1408">The job was to prepare...to go...people to go into the <span class="interior space">gas chamber</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1409">Not any other thing. </sentence><sentence id="1410">Now, after that we worked over there only a few hours because a <span class="spatial object">transport</span> like cutting their hair... Let's say a <span class="spatial object">transport</span> like myself when I came in. </sentence><sentence id="1411">When I came in, I came in from the <span class="populated place">town</span> of <span class="populated place">Czestochowa</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1412">Then came a <span class="spatial object">transport</span> from other places. </sentence><sentence id="1413">It was 18 thousand people. </sentence><sentence id="1414">Eighteen thousand people they took out, 16 or 17 people from the 18,000. </sentence><sentence id="1415">And it happened a day I was there and I can remember...it was 4 or 5 days like that. </sentence><sentence id="1416">Not all the time. </sentence><sentence id="1417">Most of the time was between 12 and 15 thousand people. </sentence><sentence id="1418">But happened 4 or 5 times there were 24 thousand people in one day. </sentence><sentence id="1419">And it took time. </sentence><sentence id="1420">Each <span class="spatial object">transport</span> took between 2 hours. </sentence><sentence id="1421">No more than 2 hours. </sentence><sentence id="1422">And it was ____.Everything spotless. </sentence><sentence id="1423">The <span class="spatial object">train</span> would come in. </sentence><sentence id="1424">You couldn't see any dead one. </sentence><sentence id="1425">You couldn't see any blood one. </sentence><sentence id="1426">Everything was shiny. </sentence><sentence id="1427">The rest of the time...talking about myself because not everyone was a barber over there. </sentence><sentence id="1428">But we did...after our job as barbers we worked in our places in the sort kommando, picking the clothes up, bringing the bundle from one place to other place. </sentence><sentence id="1429">Taking the bundles to the...to the <span class="dlf">railroad place</span> to load in the...in the <span class="spatial object">wagons</span> because they have to take those things in. </sentence><sentence id="1430">Now there was a question also or some did ask me, "Why did they have to cut the women's hair?" </sentence><sentence id="1431">Was simple, simple answer to that. </sentence><sentence id="1432">Because they needed it. </sentence><sentence id="1433">What they did from that was to make <span class="spatial object">saddles</span> for the horses. </sentence><sentence id="1434">Now if you cut off hair from a humanbeing, those hair it just like cutting off the feathers of a goose. </sentence><sentence id="1435">If you cut the feather from a goose, when the goose is alive, that will never die. </sentence><sentence id="1436">Whatever you do, you push it down, it goes up...stays up. </sentence><sentence id="1437">And with human hair the same way. </sentence><sentence id="1438">When you cut hair from a dead person, this hair just like the person. </sentence><sentence id="1439">It's dead. </sentence><sentence id="1440">But if you cut the hair from a live person, if you put in the <span class="spatial object">saddle</span>, the <span class="spatial object">saddle</span> will not push down because that was...that's why they cut their hair off. </sentence><sentence id="1441">Just to be send back to German to the practice over there when they...where they make the <span class="spatial object">saddles</span> with it. </sentence><sentence id="1442">Now the...while working over there...did all kind of work. </sentence><sentence id="1443">At the time...let me explain the...the start of the...of the day. </sentence><sentence id="1444">In the morning, 5 o'clock we had a order to get out. </sentence><sentence id="1445">Get out. </sentence><sentence id="1446">Went to the <span class="interior space">kitchen</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1447">Not just going forth like soldier 5 in a <span class="dlf">row</span> to receive coffee. </sentence><sentence id="1448">A little bit of <span class="env feature">black water</span> and slice of bread. </sentence><sentence id="1449">Daytime nothing. </sentence><sentence id="1450">After the work, we received some kind of soup. </sentence><sentence id="1451">And it was people working in the <span class="interior space">kitchen</span>...excuse me the expression, the <span class="interior space">toilets</span> and all the places. </sentence><sentence id="1452">The hardest job and I think even harder working in the <span class="interior space">gas chamber</span> cutting women's hair was when the <span class="spatial object">transport</span> came in and you had to take out people from the <span class="spatial object">wagons</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1453">Crippled people, small children, which they lost their parents between like let's say they took one...the mother into one <span class="spatial object">wagon</span>, the children into another <span class="spatial object">wagon</span> they were not together so they were separated. </sentence><sentence id="1454">But we have to take is...to take those people, the old, crippled people and the small...little small children is to the <span class="building">lazarette</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1455">Maybe you heard what...about the <span class="spatial object">lazarette</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1456">Now <span class="building">lazarette</span> usually means a <span class="building">hospital</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1457">Now over there wasn't a <span class="building">hospital</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1458">Was a big, very big <span class="dlf">ditch</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1459">And it was also with <span class="env feature">trees</span> around. </sentence><sentence id="1460">You couldn't see what was going on inside. </sentence><sentence id="1461">In front of it was a man in a white thing with a red cross. </sentence><sentence id="1462">It's just like going into a <span class="building">hospital</span>, but going into that <span class="dlf">ditch</span>...over there was <span class="country">Ukraine</span> or German...shot in the head and into the <span class="dlf">ditch</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1463">And that was the hardest job to do. </sentence><sentence id="1464">To take people, specially to have children... children a few months old...to take them in, throw them into the <span class="dlf">ditch</span> where the...over there the fire was burning day and night at that <span class="dlf">ditch</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1465">All the thing what we find papers...all kind of thing, we threw in that <span class="dlf">ditch</span> and that was going on as long as I was there. </sentence><sentence id="1466">The fire was never off. </sentence><sentence id="1467">All the time it was on. </sentence><sentence id="1468">And on top of that, people and people are killed. </sentence><sentence id="1469">Somebody...let's say...anytime when we couldn't go in to the <span class="spatial object">latrine</span>...to the <span class="spatial object">toilet</span>, we went to the side to do his, right away they killed. </sentence><sentence id="1470">That happened to a close friend of mine. </sentence><sentence id="1471">His brother's a barber. </sentence><sentence id="1472">He's alive. </sentence><sentence id="1473">A guy by the name of Sliska. </sentence><sentence id="1474">He just stood on the side to do his...took him killed, into the <span class="dlf">ditch</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1475">And that happened all the time. </sentence><sentence id="1476">Every time and all the time. </sentence><sentence id="1477">Now it happened that one...one time it happened. </sentence><sentence id="1478">A <span class="spatial object">transport</span> came from <span class="populated place">Ketrzyn</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1479"><span class="populated place">Ketrzyn</span> is a little <span class="populated place">town</span> next to <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1480">Came a <span class="spatial object">transport</span> over there and a woman came out from that <span class="spatial object">transport</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1481">Why I mention it? </sentence><sentence id="1482">I'll tell you the story what it happened. </sentence><sentence id="1483">That the one story which very, very seldom. </sentence><sentence id="1484">She came out. </sentence><sentence id="1485">In front of her was two men...two was moving with the red finger on. </sentence><sentence id="1486">One of them...tall fellow about six two or six three, blond hair. </sentence><sentence id="1487">Real German, but he was a Jew. </sentence><sentence id="1488">And another one...his name was Solic Matter of fact, he was a barber. </sentence><sentence id="1489">Well, he did a good job. </sentence><sentence id="1490">What you mean a good job?For the Germans I would say. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1613">Q: Explain. </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1614">A: And he was active. </sentence><sentence id="1615">What that mean good job. </sentence><sentence id="1616">There are people doing good, bad. </sentence><sentence id="1617">He was quick. </sentence><sentence id="1618">He organized it quick. </sentence><sentence id="1619">He took the people away quick into the...out from the <span class="spatial object">trains</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="1626">But he didn't know they are Jewish people. </sentence><sentence id="1627">He came out from the <span class="spatial object">train</span> with a razor and she cut the throat of both of them. </sentence><sentence id="1628">Specially the tall fellow. </sentence><sentence id="1629">I never knew his name. </sentence><sentence id="1630">Was very, very handsome. </sentence><sentence id="1631">He was more...looking like Germans than all the Germans together. </sentence><sentence id="1632">And naturally, on the spot they killed her. </sentence><sentence id="1633">Not with guns, with their shoes with anything they had, they killed her. </sentence><sentence id="1634">And they took those two men into a <span class="building">hospital</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1635">I don't know where, but out from <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1636">And they tried to arrest them whatever they want. </sentence><sentence id="1637">This tall man they couldn't help. </sentence><sentence id="1638">He died. </sentence><sentence id="1639">They brought them back to <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1640">The other one...he got killed, also brought back. </sentence><sentence id="1641">When I left <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span> . </sentence><sentence id="1642">But the first man...that's the only funeral in <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span> which was from the beginning until the end. </sentence><sentence id="1643">What they did, they took him. </sentence><sentence id="1644">They maked a <span class="dlf">grave</span> for him, and wood thing. </sentence><sentence id="1645">They buried him. </sentence><sentence id="1646">Everybody stood...an order. </sentence><sentence id="1647">That's the only one <span class="interior space">grave</span> which a man...Jewish man was left in that <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1648">A woman from <span class="populated place">Ketrzyn</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1649">Now during the time when...when I was there, it happened a lot of thing. </sentence><sentence id="1650">What it happened? </sentence><sentence id="1651">In the <span class="building">barrack</span> I was in it, we were about 70 people one <span class="building">barrack</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1652">Every night of the work people, 5, 6 was missing. </sentence><sentence id="1653">What mean were missing? </sentence><sentence id="1654">They killed themselves. </sentence><sentence id="1655">Hanged themselves with their...whatever they could get on them to strangle themself. </sentence><sentence id="1656">Even my brother-in-law did the same. </sentence><sentence id="1657">Uh...He married...he married a sister of my wife by the name of , a highly educated man. </sentence><sentence id="1658">He was the leader of the...he was the leader of the Socialist Party Bundt had the name Bundt in <span class="country">Poland</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1659">He was a leader from that. </sentence><sentence id="1660">He hanged himself. </sentence><sentence id="1661">He couldn't take it. </sentence><sentence id="1662">And that happened every single night. </sentence><sentence id="1663">Three, four, five people. </sentence><sentence id="1664">Beside people which they were killed by the Germans exchanging them for new ones which they came in from the new <span class="spatial object">transport</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1665">Oh, it happened at one time to me. </sentence><sentence id="1666">I got very sick in <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1667">Very, very sick! </sentence><sentence id="1668">And I went over to the commandant, to the German, I said, "Take me to the lazarette."" </sentence><sentence id="1669">When I say take me to the <span class="dlf">lazarette</span>, he knows exactly what it means. </sentence><sentence id="1670">To be killed! </sentence><sentence id="1671">Because I had an attack of the...how you call it? </sentence><sentence id="1672">kidney and that was pain...I couldn't take it. </sentence><sentence id="1673">Unbelievable! </sentence><sentence id="1674">So he said to me, "How long are you working here?" " </sentence><sentence id="1675">Oh," I said, "I work here about 5 weeks." " </sentence><sentence id="1676">5 weeks." </sentence><sentence id="1677">Go to the <span class="interior space">kitchen</span> and ask them to give you some Snupps." </sentence><sentence id="1678">And I was surprised. </sentence><sentence id="1679">And everybody was surprised that he didn't take out of the gun and took care...what for you need that. </sentence><sentence id="1680">Not that Jew. </sentence><sentence id="1681">Could get 10,000 of Jews. </sentence><sentence id="1682">Get the other one. </sentence><sentence id="1683">I went over there to the <span class="interior space">kitchen</span> and I told him what . </sentence><sentence id="1684">Whose going to give you whiskey? </sentence><sentence id="1685">A little bit <span class="env feature">water</span> you can have. </sentence><sentence id="1686">I got a little <span class="env feature">water</span> and then he told me to go into the <span class="building">barrack</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1687">That was the first time somebody went into the <span class="building">barrack</span> in the middle of the day not going to work. </sentence><sentence id="1688">And I laid down in the <span class="building">barrack</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1689">I had two cousins over there. </sentence><sentence id="1690">They worked together with me, which they were taking out at the same time <span class="spatial object">transport</span> with me. </sentence><sentence id="1691">One of them, he risked his life to find out what had happened to me. </sentence><sentence id="1692">He came in to the <span class="building">barrack</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1693">He saw me. </sentence><sentence id="1694">He never said a word to me. </sentence><sentence id="1695">He run out and he said, "Abe is in the <span class="building">barrack</span>." </sentence><sentence id="1696">At the night, they came in. </sentence><sentence id="1697">Everybody on top of me. " </sentence><sentence id="1698">Oh, you must be really the lucky one that they didn't kill you." </sentence><sentence id="1699">They didn't lull. </sentence><sentence id="1700">I still was in pain. </sentence><sentence id="1701">Over there, we had a <span class="spatial object">transport</span> coming in. </sentence><sentence id="1702">Not one, but many <span class="spatial object">transports</span> coming in from <span class="country">Czechoslovakia</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1703">A man came in by the name of Zello. </sentence><sentence id="1704">He was captain in the Czechoslovakia army. </sentence><sentence id="1705">Another one came in by the name of the Messiadic which was not the president Messidic. </sentence><sentence id="1706">He must be some kind of a relation. </sentence><sentence id="1707">He had a wife. </sentence><sentence id="1708">He was Jewish or his wife was Jewish. </sentence><sentence id="1709">I don't know. </sentence><sentence id="1710">They came in. </sentence><sentence id="1711">Was a doctor. </sentence><sentence id="1712">What happened? </sentence><sentence id="1713">When I told, he took out the tablets and said, "Abe, take the tablets," to me. </sentence><sentence id="1714">I took the <span class="spatial object">tablet</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1715">The following morning I never knew what that mean the sickness until three years ago now I got sick in <span class="country">Israel</span>, also on the kidney. </sentence><sentence id="1716">Now another practice. </sentence><sentence id="1717">I worked in...I worked in a <span class="building">barrack</span> where people were hiding. </sentence><sentence id="1718">I did it myself too before I escaped from <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1719">What was...the <span class="building">barrack</span> was full of clothes...bundles maked out of clothes. </sentence><sentence id="1720">So what we did we put the <span class="spatial object">bundles</span> in the <span class="building">barrack</span> one on top of the other until to the <span class="dlf">roof</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1721">People they tried to escape. </sentence><sentence id="1722">What they did they went in...in the day time during the work in the <span class="building">barracks</span> and they remained over there. </sentence><sentence id="1723">And they hid themselves between the clothes. </sentence><sentence id="1724">Both it happened by accident when the clothes moved, could never go out and got choked there. </sentence><sentence id="1725">At one time we took out from a <span class="building">barrack</span> the size I would say maybe about 40, 60...40, 50 meters, over 30 people. </sentence><sentence id="1726">Dead ones! </sentence><sentence id="1727">I did the same thing when I escaped. </sentence><sentence id="1728">But before that, I worked over there and I tried to help some people any way I could. </sentence><sentence id="1729">At one time he came in, he was a <span class="building">kapo</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1730">His name was in <span class="populated place">Jewish Ben Yamin Yakoski</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1731">Have you heard that name? </sentence><sentence id="1732">You did. </sentence><sentence id="1733">He had a brother over there. </sentence><sentence id="1734">Very, nice, religious individual boy. </sentence><sentence id="1735">He was from a <span class="populated place">town</span> of <span class="populated place">Yen Jeif</span>, which is not far from <span class="populated place">Kielce</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1736">He came in he said, "Abe, I trust you. </sentence><sentence id="1737">Tonight, my people...my brother they going...they're planning an escape. </sentence><sentence id="1738">Eleven of them. </sentence><sentence id="1739">What should I do?" </sentence><sentence id="1740">He said. </sentence><sentence id="1741">You know you...you have some landsmen from your <span class="populated place">town</span> working outside...not in the <span class="building">barrack</span>, but outside?" </sentence><sentence id="1742">I said, "Yes." " </sentence><sentence id="1743">Tomorrow morning after the appell you bring in your friends. </sentence><sentence id="1744">If somebody comes in to you and tell their friends, they're working all the time here." </sentence><sentence id="1745">Naturally, I did whatever he told me. </sentence><sentence id="1746">In the morning...group I worked with them...l] of them disappeared. </sentence><sentence id="1747">Then it came in...the assistant commandant...friends which we call them the lackger, that name you heard already many times. </sentence><sentence id="1748">He came in the <span class="building">barrack</span> and he looked at me. " </sentence><sentence id="1749">What are you doing?" </sentence><sentence id="1750">I said, "I'm working on the cloth...looking what is there, cotton, this that." " </sentence><sentence id="1751">Are the same people working here what they worked yesterday?" </sentence><sentence id="1752">I said, "Yes. </sentence><sentence id="1753">Everybody's the same we're working." </sentence><sentence id="1754">It wasn't true. </sentence><sentence id="1755">What those people...by crouching the other side of the <span class="dlf">gate</span>, they left some kind of sign from the <span class="env feature">trees</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1756">At night they couldn't take away the little...this from the <span class="env feature">trees</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1757">And he saw that somebody went through that. </sentence><sentence id="1758">He came over to me. </sentence><sentence id="1759">He took my...] had...had a hat..he took mine hat...he start knocking in a wooden block which hold ___, but I was like paralyzed. </sentence><sentence id="1760">Didn't feel at all. </sentence><sentence id="1761">Just for the thing what they had. </sentence><sentence id="1762">I was scared. </sentence><sentence id="1763">They're taking out to kill me. </sentence><sentence id="1764">I didn't feel it all. </sentence><sentence id="1765">Behind him, was a friend of mine by the name of Sidman, Eisack Sidman. </sentence><sentence id="1766">He was standing with a knife over there behind him. </sentence><sentence id="1767">And if he would take out the gun, he would kill him. </sentence><sentence id="1768">But it happened that he knocked and knocked and I didn't say a word to him, so thought maybe I didn't know nothing. </sentence><sentence id="1769">He let me go. </sentence><sentence id="1770">Then at night after work, people came in. " </sentence><sentence id="1771">What happened?" </sentence><sentence id="1772">I told them. </sentence><sentence id="1773">For those people, they escaped. </sentence><sentence id="1774">After that I found out what happened to them. </sentence><sentence id="1775">From all those 11 people, 2 were alive when I returned from <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span> to <span class="populated place">Czestochowa</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1776">All nine other ones, they were killed by the Pollacks. </sentence><sentence id="1777">They went back to their <span class="populated place">home town</span> in <span class="populated place">Yan Jeif</span>, and they were very, very rich. </sentence><sentence id="1778">They were like, I would say, the <span class="building">Rockefellor</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1779">They had a possession. </sentence><sentence id="1780">They owned _____ to . </sentence><sentence id="1781">They call themselves I would say in German, The <span class="building">Bundt</span>'s. </sentence><sentence id="1782">They got killed. </sentence><sentence id="1783">Two of men they tie your hands to escape. </sentence><sentence id="1784">I met in the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> of <span class="populated place">Czestochowa</span>, when I came back from <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1785">They couldn't stay there and they went somewhere away. </sentence><sentence id="1786">I never saw them again. </sentence><sentence id="1787">That was one part, but the second part we...what we decide to run away. </sentence><sentence id="1788">The first thing is we had to get money. </sentence><sentence id="1789">When you go out...when you come to the <span class="populated place">Pollacks</span>, it's impossible to live without it. </sentence><sentence id="1790">So we tried to get some money and that wasn't a hard job to get. </sentence><sentence id="1791">The money wasn't a hard job to get the money but to get the money was our job. </sentence><sentence id="1792">If they find on you one <span class="dlf">slota</span> or one dollar, you get killed. </sentence><sentence id="1793">So___ about 8, 9 from our <span class="populated place">hometown</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1794">One is still alive. </sentence><sentence id="1795">He is today 85 years old. </sentence><sentence id="1796">He lives in <span class="country">Israel</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1797"><span class="building">Yakia Bisner</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1798">A friend of mine. </sentence><sentence id="1799">And this one, particular this one. </sentence><sentence id="1800">I took him away from the <span class="interior space">gas chamber</span> three times. </sentence><sentence id="1801">He had such kind of eyes...you look at him you get scared. </sentence><sentence id="1802">And twice the German took him in, told him to go to the <span class="dlf">gate</span> which going into the <span class="interior space">gas chamber</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1803">And I was from the...from the side. </sentence><sentence id="1804">I threw clothes on him. </sentence><sentence id="1805">I took him away. </sentence><sentence id="1806">And the third time he went and he worked together with me. </sentence><sentence id="1807">We...we were together all the time and we collected money together to escape. </sentence><sentence id="1808">And matter of fact, he escaped before me. </sentence><sentence id="1809">Also organized this thing. </sentence><sentence id="1810">We decided who's going to go. </sentence><sentence id="1811">He went away with two other ones, which the other ones got killed where he's still alive. </sentence><sentence id="1812">When we collected the money...and going in to the <span class="building">barrack</span>, the Ukrainian...they did something which is not normal. </sentence><sentence id="1813">Why? </sentence><sentence id="1814">In the middle of the night we came out from the <span class="building">barracks</span> not walking, but crawling to the <span class="dlf">wires</span>...to the <span class="dlf">barbed wires</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1815">We want to go through them. </sentence><sentence id="1816">We were 7, 8...one was still inside and we had the money with us. </sentence><sentence id="1817">Also the same one the <span class="building">Sidman</span> which I mentioned before. </sentence><sentence id="1818">And the Ukrainian they jumped on us. </sentence><sentence id="1819">We...we were the last straw... went back to the <span class="building">barracks</span>, back to our place. </sentence><sentence id="1820">We don't know anything. </sentence><sentence id="1821">But they got him. </sentence><sentence id="1822">And they're going to kill. </sentence><sentence id="1823">What you got?We showed him. </sentence><sentence id="1824">Got money, a lot of money. </sentence><sentence id="1825">It happened they let him go. </sentence><sentence id="1826">Why they let him go? </sentence><sentence id="1827">I'll tell you why they let him go. </sentence><sentence id="1828">They took the money. </sentence><sentence id="1829">And they escaped. </sentence><sentence id="1830">Those two Ukrainians workmen...they escaped from <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1831">Then we decided a group of 9 people is too much at one time. </sentence><sentence id="1832">We're going to organize a different way to escape. </sentence><sentence id="1833">Three at a time. </sentence><sentence id="1834">And we organized it. </sentence><sentence id="1835">One group went the first one. </sentence><sentence id="1836">Then another group they didn't succeed. </sentence><sentence id="1837">Two of men run away. </sentence><sentence id="1838">They third one got catched by a Ukrainian. </sentence><sentence id="1839">His name was Ella Loddick, Ella. </sentence><sentence id="1840">When the Ukrainian jumped on him, he jumped on the Ukrainian and he bit through his neck. </sentence><sentence id="1841">With his teeth he killed him. </sentence><sentence id="1842">And he run away. </sentence><sentence id="1843">I met him in the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> of <span class="populated place">Czestochowa</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1844">He was over there, married. </sentence><sentence id="1845">He got married in that little <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> after he got back from <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1846">I was at their wedding. </sentence><sentence id="1847">A few weeks after he got sick and he passed away. </sentence><sentence id="1848">Now the third group I went with a friend of mine and a cousin of mine. </sentence><sentence id="1849">And we did the same way I mentioned before, hiding between the clothes, make also...you know, each went into the <span class="dlf">ditch</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1850">Three of us. </sentence><sentence id="1851">We kept the clothes apart. </sentence><sentence id="1852">At night, the Ukrainians, the Germans come in start hollering, "Rouse, Rouse." </sentence><sentence id="1853">We don't know anything. </sentence><sentence id="1854">Then with their picks from their rifle, they start picking if somebody is not over there. </sentence><sentence id="1855">They left. </sentence><sentence id="1856">We worked over there until about 6 o'clock. </sentence><sentence id="1857">About 8:30 was...winter beginning of January 43, we decide to leave. </sentence><sentence id="1858">Now to escape from over there is...was one chance. </sentence><sentence id="1859">What was one the one chance?We had to go through that <span class="dlf">lazarette</span> what the fire...what the dead people was burning. </sentence><sentence id="1860">We had to go through there. </sentence><sentence id="1861">Otherwise, it was impossible because it was six or seven row of <span class="dlf">barbed wire</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1862">You went through one, you had to go through the second, the third. </sentence><sentence id="1863">Over there was only one. </sentence><sentence id="1864">When we maked through that <span class="dlf">ditch</span> of the burning fire, we had the <span class="dlf">gate</span> of the...with one <span class="dlf">barbed wire</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1865">We decided that on a Saturday night to leave the place. </sentence><sentence id="1866">We took clothes. </sentence><sentence id="1867">We throwed the clothes on the <span class="dlf">barbed wire</span> and lucky ones, nobody was in the <span class="building">tower</span>...watching <span class="building">towers</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1868">There was all around <span class="building">watch towers</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1869">Saturday night we figured out because we saw so many times they disappeared. </sentence><sentence id="1870">They went to uh...to drink or they went with girls, out to Ukrainians, so we maked that. </sentence><sentence id="1871">We came out about 9 o'clock at night through that, start running and running. </sentence><sentence id="1872">We run all the way. </sentence><sentence id="1873">In the morning we find out about 6 o'clock in the morning, we were at the same place. </sentence><sentence id="1874">Almost a kilometer away. </sentence><sentence id="1875">And we heard the Ukrainian talking, so we were in <span class="populated place">Ukrainian place</span> surrounded. </sentence><sentence id="1876">Finally, I looked through the <span class="env feature">stars</span> and I went a different way. </sentence><sentence id="1877">Went _different way, went to the <span class="env feature">River of Bug</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1878">Stayed there until about...in the morning about 8:00, 8:30 in the morning. </sentence><sentence id="1879">Met a woman not far away. </sentence><sentence id="1880">She said, "What are you doing here? </sentence><sentence id="1881">The Germans are all over." " </sentence><sentence id="1882">Let us in for just for over a day." </sentence><sentence id="1883">Nothing doing. </sentence><sentence id="1884">So we stayed there...stayed there a whole day like in a <span class="env feature">wilderness</span> around us. </sentence><sentence id="1885">Then the following morning, we saw a man with his <span class="spatial object">wagon</span> and horse. </sentence><sentence id="1886">One of us went over...was a little <span class="populated place">village</span> or something. </sentence><sentence id="1887">He said it's not far away, about 6 kilometers which is not far. " </sentence><sentence id="1888">Can you take us?" </sentence><sentence id="1889">He said, "I'm going with my horse and <span class="spatial object">wagon</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1890">If you want to go...after I don't know...I'll think about you. </sentence><sentence id="1891">You go." </sentence><sentence id="1892">So he went from over there and we came in. </sentence><sentence id="1893">It was not a <span class="populated place">village</span>, even smaller. </sentence><sentence id="1894">Maybe was about 15, 20 families living there. </sentence><sentence id="1895">And that time was...uh...the hard job started. </sentence><sentence id="1896">We were liberated from that...but we were not liberated from the...from the war...from the Germans. </sentence><sentence id="1897">And it start another painful, painful time. </sentence><sentence id="1898">Being outside, the head man from that little <span class="populated place">village</span> came over to us. </sentence><sentence id="1899">He said, "I know who you are. </sentence><sentence id="1900">I know from where you come because we only 6 kilometers from the place. </sentence><sentence id="1901">We can smell. </sentence><sentence id="1902">You know...when the corpse are burning, we could smell it. </sentence><sentence id="1903">When the wind goes out our way. </sentence><sentence id="1904">What do you want to do?" </sentence><sentence id="1905">We said, "We want to go...we want to take the <span class="spatial object">train</span> to go to...back to <span class="populated place">Czestochowa</span>. " </sentence><sentence id="1906">And that's a rough time. </sentence><sentence id="1907">I don't know how you're going to do it." " </sentence><sentence id="1908">Okay, show us where it is the nearest <span class="building">station</span>." </sentence><sentence id="1909">He said, "First stay over here. </sentence><sentence id="1910">Stay over night. </sentence><sentence id="1911">Early in the morning, we'll see what we can do." </sentence><sentence id="1912">Was a really nice man. </sentence><sentence id="1913">He brought over some milk and something to eat. </sentence><sentence id="1914">We left. </sentence><sentence id="1915">He said, "Don't go with the way. </sentence><sentence id="1916">I take you around the <span class="env feature">forest</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1917">Usually it is about 17, 18 kilometers from that place, <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span>, to that <span class="populated place">village</span> where he took us by the name of <span class="populated place">San Draniki</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1918">I remember every name of it. </sentence><sentence id="1919">He took us over there, said goodbye. </sentence><sentence id="1920">We was in the...we was also in the...in the...one night we stayed in the <span class="env feature">forest</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1921">Second night we decided to go into the <span class="populated place">village</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1922">A woman opened up the <span class="dlf">door</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1923">This friend of mine went over. " </sentence><sentence id="1924">What do you want?" " </sentence><sentence id="1925">We want just for the day, give us a place." </sentence><sentence id="1926">So she goes in to her husband, "Go up to the <span class="building">stable</span>." </sentence><sentence id="1927">They had a <span class="building">stable</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1928">Nothing was in the <span class="building">stable</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1929">They were poor people. </sentence><sentence id="1930">So I went in. </sentence><sentence id="1931">We stayed over there. </sentence><sentence id="1932">Cold. </sentence><sentence id="1933"><span class="env feature">Ice</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1934">Cold. </sentence><sentence id="1935">It wasn't a <span class="building">stable</span> like...<span class="building">stable</span> you know, just a part was open. </sentence><sentence id="1936">Wide open. </sentence><sentence id="1937">WE were freezing over there. </sentence><sentence id="1938">We were over there for about a week. </sentence><sentence id="1939">At night, came up and they told us to go into his <span class="building">house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1940">His <span class="building">house</span> was one <span class="interior space">room</span> divided with something like this...some kind of paper . </sentence><sentence id="1941">We stayed in the <span class="interior space">back</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1942">In the front there was a....his sister from <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1943">She was a nice, young girl. </sentence><sentence id="1944">And all the boys they came around, and they had a good time and we couldn't breath. </sentence><sentence id="1945">We were afraid to breath. </sentence><sentence id="1946">To sneeze, forget about it. </sentence><sentence id="1947">And that was . </sentence><sentence id="1948">This one fellow by the name of Berkewitz.___ </sentence><sentence id="1949">was a fairly good one, but we paid a lot of money to stay. </sentence><sentence id="1950">Every day we paid a lot of money in this <span class="interior space">room</span>, and actually they didn't give a thing. </sentence><sentence id="1951">Potatoes cooked almost raw, that we shouldn't be able to eat a lot. </sentence><sentence id="1952">And when I explained the deal we paid them like thousand dollars a day. </sentence><sentence id="1953">We did give them the money to buy material. </sentence><sentence id="1954">We maked for them clothes, winter clothes. </sentence><sentence id="1955">Day to days, and all that. </sentence><sentence id="1956">Was very good material. </sentence><sentence id="1957">A brother-in-law of hers find out about...where you got so many clothes. </sentence><sentence id="1958">She said, "I'll tell you, but nobody has to know. </sentence><sentence id="1959">I have some Jews." " </sentence><sentence id="1960">Where is he?" " </sentence><sentence id="1961">He's my <span class="building">house</span>." </sentence><sentence id="1962">So he came over, he said, "You come with me. </sentence><sentence id="1963">I take the <span class="spatial object">machine</span>...the <span class="spatial object">sewing machine</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1964">You come to me and you make for me clothes." </sentence><sentence id="1965">I said, "Yes, I will make for you but they are my friends. </sentence><sentence id="1966">I will not go without them." " </sentence><sentence id="1967">Come." </sentence><sentence id="1968">Now this a...some kind of little story. </sentence><sentence id="1969">I wrote that in a book. </sentence><sentence id="1970">It is in a <span class="spatial object">book</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1971">When we came over to that one, it was magnificent. </sentence><sentence id="1972">There was a man and a woman...what can I tell you. </sentence><sentence id="1973">Diamonds. </sentence><sentence id="1974">Didn't take money. </sentence><sentence id="1975">Just for the food what we ate. </sentence><sentence id="1976">And she maked the best food you can mention. </sentence><sentence id="1977">We didn't sleep in the <span class="building">stable</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1978">We slept in the <span class="building">house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1979">In a <span class="spatial object">bed</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1980">And for us we didn't see..first thing we didn't see anyone. </sentence><sentence id="1981">I myself for 4 months I didn't see a woman with clothes. </sentence><sentence id="1982">All I did is my job in the <span class="interior space">gas chambers</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1983">All these people were all naked without any clothing. </sentence><sentence id="1984">First time I see a woman it was strange to me to see a woman. </sentence><sentence id="1985">And she was so nice. </sentence><sentence id="1986">They had a son about 9 years, daughter 7 years old. </sentence><sentence id="1987">His name was F And we were over there over a week until I find a paper...newspaper and it was...a newspaper was a month from over there to <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span>, from <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span> to <span class="populated place">Czestochowa</span>, which is a far...far away. </sentence><sentence id="1988">From over there to <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span> is far, I would say about 68 miles and from <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span> to our <span class="populated place">town</span> it is about 150 miles. </sentence><sentence id="1989">Far away. </sentence><sentence id="1990">To walk is impossible. </sentence><sentence id="1991">We decided to go by <span class="spatial object">train</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1992">Whatever will be will be. </sentence><sentence id="1993">We'll go by <span class="spatial object">train</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2364">Q: At this point, we need to stop, change tapes, and then we can pick up with the <span class="spatial object">train</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2365"> Tape #3 </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2366">Q: Abe, the tape is started. </sentence><sentence id="2367">We left as you were about to board a <span class="spatial object">train</span> for <span class="populated place">Czestochowa</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2370">A: Yes. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2372">Q: Can you tell us about that. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2374">A: Before I boarded that <span class="spatial object">train</span>, I got into a family. </sentence><sentence id="2375">I mentioned it before by the name of <span class="building">Suppel</span> ____. </sentence><sentence id="2376">We stayed there about 8, 10 days. </sentence><sentence id="2377">Very, very nice people. </sentence><sentence id="2378">And he had a...uh...brother- in-law. </sentence><sentence id="2379">He and his brother-in-law was taking us to the <span class="dlf">railroad</span> to pick up the <span class="spatial object">train</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2380">Before we left (coughing) excuse me...their <span class="building">house</span>...his wife start crying and she said, "Somebody from you survive, please write me a letter." </sentence><sentence id="2381">And that was the end we saw them. </sentence><sentence id="2382">We went through the <span class="env feature">forest</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2383">They went first. </sentence><sentence id="2384">They didn't want to go together with us naturally. </sentence><sentence id="2385">Before coming to the <span class="building">railroad station</span>, from the <span class="env feature">forest</span> under a <span class="env feature">tree</span>...it came out a few Germans from the SS.And how...where do you have your passports. </sentence><sentence id="2386">We find out that time that the German they took away all the passports from the public to change for a different kind of passport. </sentence><sentence id="2387">And we knew that. </sentence><sentence id="2388">So we told them, oh, yes. </sentence><sentence id="2389">Yes. </sentence><sentence id="2390">It's true. " </sentence><sentence id="2391">Where are you going?" " </sentence><sentence id="2392">Oh, we're going to take the <span class="spatial object">train</span>." </sentence><sentence id="2393">Start looking around. </sentence><sentence id="2394">I was shaking. </sentence><sentence id="2395">I was afraid. </sentence><sentence id="2396">That's a true. </sentence><sentence id="2397">Because I didn't want to come in to their hand alive again. </sentence><sentence id="2398">So my mind was to escape and let them kill me, but this cousin of mine start, you know, pushing me like coming out from a trance...my, myself...where I am. </sentence><sentence id="2399">Who I am. </sentence><sentence id="2400">And I didn't say a word. </sentence><sentence id="2401">They let us go. </sentence><sentence id="2402">Coming to the <span class="building">railroad station</span> those two people, Mr. Suppel and his brother...was his brother-in-law went in to buy tickets, but the cashier at the <span class="building">railroad station</span> saw us. </sentence><sentence id="2403">He said, "What you want to get tickets for them. </sentence><sentence id="2404">There are three of them. </sentence><sentence id="2405">You are two. </sentence><sentence id="2406">No, you cannot get any tickets." </sentence><sentence id="2407">Why? </sentence><sentence id="2408">You gotta pay money. </sentence><sentence id="2409">And they came out and we told them to give them as much as as they asked for. </sentence><sentence id="2410">He did give them money and we had a ticket. </sentence><sentence id="2411">But luckily enough those people there didn't leave us. </sentence><sentence id="2412">They went with us to <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span> which is about 60 kilometers from there. </sentence><sentence id="2413">We traveled. </sentence><sentence id="2414">Even they were not allowed to travel at night, but they went with us. </sentence><sentence id="2415">We arrived at <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span> about 8 o'clock, and the <span class="spatial object">train</span> we supposed to take about quarter til 12 at night. </sentence><sentence id="2416">They went over to buy for us tickets, and the cashier said, "You must be crazy. </sentence><sentence id="2417">You know the law. </sentence><sentence id="2418">We can't sell tickets only 25 kilometers from this place. </sentence><sentence id="2419">And when you travel over there, then you buy other tickets for another 25 kilometers." </sentence><sentence id="2420">And I was standing nearby and I took out a bunch of money and I put in the front of the <span class="dlf">window</span>. " </sentence><sentence id="2421">Oh," he said, "Oh, yes. </sentence><sentence id="2422">Yes. </sentence><sentence id="2423">I have...uh...all the papers from the...from the (which means like the President from the city)...he had the papers...he wrote on the name whatever we did give to them and we had already papers to go to <span class="populated place">Czestochowa</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2424">Right we said goodbye to each other, we left. </sentence><sentence id="2425">We took the <span class="spatial object">train</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2426">Everyone in a different <span class="interior space">compartment</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2427">We don't know each other. </sentence><sentence id="2428">In the morning, about 7 o'clock in the morning, 7:30 was still like half dark, we came into this <span class="building">station</span>, <span class="populated place">Czestochowa</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2429">A cousin of mine, he lived before in a <span class="region">section</span> which was mostly...uh...Christian people. </sentence><sentence id="2430">And this place wasn't included before in the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span>, not in the first and not in the second <span class="populated place">ghetto</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2431">Over there, went down, didn't see any Germans around, but Polish police. </sentence><sentence id="2432">We took a <span class="spatial object">doreska_</span> if you know what that is. </sentence><sentence id="2433">I don't know how to say that in...in English. </sentence><sentence id="2434">What...what I call it in English. </sentence><sentence id="2435">I never know. </sentence><sentence id="2436">In Jewish they call it kind of thing, but it is a <span class="spatial object">wagon</span> driven by horses, a special passenger. </sentence><sentence id="2437">It took us to this place over there where he lived. </sentence><sentence id="2438">Over there, we went in. </sentence><sentence id="2439">Also in the hiding, it happened a friend of mine...very close of mine and ______ he recognized me. </sentence><sentence id="2440">We grew up I was in the same <span class="building">house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2441">He didn't mention a word to me. </sentence><sentence id="2442">He never saw me in his life like...and I never saw him. </sentence><sentence id="2443">But we know it...we know we saw each other. </sentence><sentence id="2444">We stayed the whole day hidden. </sentence><sentence id="2445">At night through the <span class="env feature">forest</span>, we went close to the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2446">We came over to the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2447">We wanted to go in and the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> was surrounded by Polish police, <span class="country">Ukraine</span>, other kind. </sentence><sentence id="2448">Was very seldom, in fact was never was somebody wants to get smuggled into the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> which normally people wanted to get out of the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2449">So I went into the policeman, Polish policeman, "We want to go in." " </sentence><sentence id="2450">You want to go in? </sentence><sentence id="2451">You must be crazy. </sentence><sentence id="2452">What for you want to go in?" </sentence><sentence id="2453">We took out...I don't remember how much money. </sentence><sentence id="2454">We give it. </sentence><sentence id="2455">He looked away. </sentence><sentence id="2456">We sneaked in...in the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2457">Was a small <span class="populated place">ghetto</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2458">Beginning of January 1943. </sentence><sentence id="2459">People in the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2460">What can I describe to you. </sentence><sentence id="2461">Very, very poor. </sentence><sentence id="2462">Without clothes, without food, without anything. </sentence><sentence id="2463">We got in over there. </sentence><sentence id="2464">I met a friend of mine. </sentence><sentence id="2465">Very close friend. </sentence><sentence id="2466">We grew up together. </sentence><sentence id="2467">Up til today we are the closest. </sentence><sentence id="2468">He is the first one. " </sentence><sentence id="2469">Abe, what are you doing here? </sentence><sentence id="2470">You were sent away." " </sentence><sentence id="2471">Yes, I was sent away. </sentence><sentence id="2472">I am here." </sentence><sentence id="2473">Met a cousin of mine ____. " </sentence><sentence id="2474">Where are you coming from?" " </sentence><sentence id="2475"><span class="populated place">Treblinka</span>." " </sentence><sentence id="2476">What is <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span>?" </sentence><sentence id="2477">We explained it to him. </sentence><sentence id="2478">Went into his <span class="interior space">room</span> and we start to explain to him. </sentence><sentence id="2479">We start to explain to different kind of people. </sentence><sentence id="2480">We start to explain even to the Jewish police. </sentence><sentence id="2481">Nobody but the closest friends of mine or of theirs...they didn't want to believe it. </sentence><sentence id="2482">They said, "What do you want...why you wanta tell me a story that nobody who was transported from here is not anymore alive?" </sentence><sentence id="2483">I said, "That's right." " </sentence><sentence id="2484">They are." " </sentence><sentence id="2485">You people must be crazy? </sentence><sentence id="2486">And where you come from? </sentence><sentence id="2487">A sick <span class="building">house</span>?" </sentence><sentence id="2488">I said, "No." </sentence><sentence id="2489">But one thing...because we didn't ask them for anything...we didn't ask them for food. </sentence><sentence id="2490">We had money. </sentence><sentence id="2491">We didn't ask them for clothes. </sentence><sentence id="2492">We wore clothes. </sentence><sentence id="2493">Until one to another, the whole <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> knew. </sentence><sentence id="2494">And the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> was about 5,000 people, all of them working in <span class="building">ammunition factory</span> outside the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> which they took them every morning out from the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> and they took them to the <span class="building">factory</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2495">Over there they worked by ammunition, and at night they brought them back. </sentence><sentence id="2496">We had no...no place of ours. </sentence><sentence id="2497">We went...uh...escorted to no place, but we hanged around. </sentence><sentence id="2498">It was very dangerous to be over there. </sentence><sentence id="2499">Young people not doing any work. </sentence><sentence id="2500">They came back at night. </sentence><sentence id="2501">Everybody noticed, especially me. " </sentence><sentence id="2502">Hey, Bomba, is back. </sentence><sentence id="2503">He's from <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2504">He tells horrible stories which is unbelievable." </sentence><sentence id="2505">And we had coming in many friends, asking about their families. </sentence><sentence id="2506">One I said, "They're dead." " </sentence><sentence id="2507">How can it be? </sentence><sentence id="2508">How they die?" </sentence><sentence id="2509">Just asking question, "How? </sentence><sentence id="2510">How long did they go? </sentence><sentence id="2511">When they die? </sentence><sentence id="2512">And how they died? </sentence><sentence id="2513">Who was together with them?" </sentence><sentence id="2514">Whatever we could, we answered him. </sentence><sentence id="2515">I could answer people which I was with their family in the same <span class="spatial object">wagon</span>...how they locked it and how they lived through the journey to <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span> and the last time I...when I saw them. </sentence><sentence id="2516">It came so far that we were afraid that they're going to kill us because we're bringing in all kind of information which wasn't good for the Germans, wasn't good for the Ukrainians, even for the Jewish police wasn't good. </sentence><sentence id="2517">We're hiding different places, and then I had some friends...<span class="building">barbers</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2518">One of them by the name of Balsome...he was the person...the personal barber of the man which he maked the selection. </sentence><sentence id="2519">He was the biggest murderer of the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> by the name of <span class="building">Degenhof</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2520">And <span class="populated place">Degenhof</span> said to him, "You know something. </sentence><sentence id="2521">I got information there are people here coming from <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span>." </sentence><sentence id="2522">He said, "I do not know," which he know very well. </sentence><sentence id="2523">He was also our friend, and we worked together as a barber and a few barbers worked with us. </sentence><sentence id="2524">He said, "I don't know anything." </sentence><sentence id="2525">He said, "Don't tell me. </sentence><sentence id="2526">You know." </sentence><sentence id="2527">He said, "I don't know." </sentence><sentence id="2528">So he said to him, "You know something. </sentence><sentence id="2529">If they could...uh...run away, if they could escape from <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span> I don't want to bother with them. </sentence><sentence id="2530">I don't know anything." </sentence><sentence id="2531">And myself was a barber. </sentence><sentence id="2532">I went into the <span class="building">barber shop</span> of the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2533">Had a <span class="building">barber shop</span> working over there about, I would say about 10, 12 barbers. </sentence><sentence id="2534">They took me in. </sentence><sentence id="2535">And I worked and I lived with them together. </sentence><sentence id="2536">We ate together. </sentence><sentence id="2537">Two women. </sentence><sentence id="2538">One was the wife of the Balsome which he was the head man, like big leader, and the other was the wife of a partner of mine from before the war. </sentence><sentence id="2539">They did the cooking, everything. </sentence><sentence id="2540">At that time I had money. </sentence><sentence id="2541">Naturally, I supported them with everything I could. </sentence><sentence id="2542">And they had anything they wanted. </sentence><sentence id="2543">We did also in that small <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> organized like a little <span class="building">restaurant</span> where people, you know, cooking, buying this that. </sentence><sentence id="2544">What we did....I had a brother-in-law, and this other gentleman by the name of Eisner, he had a brother-in-law also. </sentence><sentence id="2545">And they were running around almost naked without anything. </sentence><sentence id="2546">What we did...we took out money and we said, "Here is aroom. </sentence><sentence id="2547">You buy all kind of food you can get. </sentence><sentence id="2548">So who's gonna buy? </sentence><sentence id="2549">Alright. </sentence><sentence id="2550">You just do with it whatever you can. </sentence><sentence id="2551">Was three of us. </sentence><sentence id="2552">Jacob Eisner, and this friend of mine. </sentence><sentence id="2553">He just passed away not so long ago, Rappaport, Moshe Rappaport, and myself. </sentence><sentence id="2554">We went down in the <span class="dlf">street</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2555">People coming from work, hungry, dirty, beaten up. </sentence><sentence id="2556">We handed them money. </sentence><sentence id="2557">Go up over there at the first <span class="interior space">floor</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2558">There is a <span class="building">restaurant</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2559">And you get food. </sentence><sentence id="2560">We supplied the food and we sent them over the customers that the people shouldn't go in like without anything, and I tell you this is the honest truth. </sentence><sentence id="2561">We did it as long as we could. </sentence><sentence id="2562">And we're working over there. </sentence><sentence id="2563">We organized also in that small <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> some kind of resistance against...a few of us. </sentence><sentence id="2564">One was also from <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span> by the name of Eislevich. </sentence><sentence id="2565">He came from a <span class="populated place">town</span> not far away from_Rabonska. </sentence><sentence id="2566">And then it was also in January. </sentence><sentence id="2567">They tried to liquidate a number of people, like to take out from five thousand, about thousand of them in to be killed. </sentence><sentence id="2568">I was also on that place. </sentence><sentence id="2569">That was on the <span class="building">market place</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2570">They took out all the Jewish people from that <span class="building">marketplace</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2571">They divided them in groups accordingly the place where they worked...40, 50 in a group, and took out groups and they sent them away. </sentence><sentence id="2572">This friend of ours from <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span>, Eislevich...he had a gun. </sentence><sentence id="2573">I don't know how he got it. </sentence><sentence id="2574">He took out the gun and he start to kill one of the Germans...the Gestapo man by the name of Ron. </sentence><sentence id="2575">That was the German's name, Ron. </sentence><sentence id="2576">But he didn't kill him. </sentence><sentence id="2577">He didn't even want to kill him. </sentence><sentence id="2578">He took apart...apart from the clothes. </sentence><sentence id="2579">Because of that they took out 27 people. </sentence><sentence id="2580">From the people they actually...I don't know they wanted to stay or not, but they took out a group of people...27 of them, and they killed them. </sentence><sentence id="2581">Shot them in front of our eyes. </sentence><sentence id="2582">And this Eislevich with their boots, with their sticks they killed him. </sentence><sentence id="2583">And this friend of mine, who was also close with that Eislevich like myself. </sentence><sentence id="2584">He had his knife and I had a stick and I said, "What are you going to do? </sentence><sentence id="2585">Don't do it. </sentence><sentence id="2586">There will be more killing." </sentence><sentence id="2587">He let it go. </sentence><sentence id="2588">And I still sounds the...the voice from one of my friends by the name of when he got killed, before he got killed. </sentence><sentence id="2589">He said to his girlfriend, "Goodbye, Honey Sauce." </sentence><sentence id="2590">After that we went in back to the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2591">But the organizing inside the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> didn't stopped. </sentence><sentence id="2592">There were other groups. </sentence><sentence id="2593">It went out a group to the <span class="env feature">forest</span>...some boys, younger...little older than myself and for a time we find out they got killed, but not by the Germans. </sentence><sentence id="2594">By the <span class="building">Polish ARKA</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2595">The <span class="building">ARKA</span> that is they called themselves they fighting for the liberation of <span class="country">Poland</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2596">But actually, they were fighting for the liberation of the Jews in <span class="country">Poland</span> which they helped the Germans to liquidate the Jewish people. </sentence><sentence id="2597">And until June the 22nd, 1946, they find out that a group is organizing a resistance of the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> in <span class="populated place">Czestochowa</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2598">They want to know who the leader is. </sentence><sentence id="2599">They took out a man, a friend of mine...very close friend of mine by the name of Poltashavichs. </sentence><sentence id="2600">He was such a nice fellow, such a quiet man. </sentence><sentence id="2601">They took him out to an open place and all the Jewish people around that place had to stay to look how he's beaten up almost to the end, just to say who is the leader. </sentence><sentence id="2602">But he didn't say it. </sentence><sentence id="2603">They killed him, and he didn't mention a word. </sentence><sentence id="2604">Now, that was the last day in the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2605">A day after, they start liquidating the small <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> which at that time was between 4 and 5 thousand Jewish people working in four different <span class="building">factories</span> in <span class="populated place">Czestochowa</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2606">One of them was by the name of Hassack _. </sentence><sentence id="2607">The other one was <span class="building">Hosa Hassack</span>, <span class="populated place">Bata</span>, and there was one <span class="populated place">Slavanka</span> where people worked. </sentence><sentence id="2608">The biggest amount of people they worked on which was almost about 3 thousand of them. </sentence><sentence id="2609">And I was working was in this same place here after the liquidation of the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2610">By liquidating the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span>, there was a lot of people which they belonged to uprising group, and many of them digged <span class="dlf">holes</span>, <span class="interior space">bunkers</span> to be hidden and also I was in...I was involved with a group which we digged a <span class="interior space">bunker</span>, a big <span class="interior space">bunker</span>...a <span class="interior space">bunker</span> about 50, 60 people in it. </sentence><sentence id="2611">We had inside food for 2 years hidden. </sentence><sentence id="2612">We had <span class="spatial object">beds</span> in the <span class="interior space">bunker</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2613">We had everything you wanta mention. </sentence><sentence id="2614">And also we digged a way to go through the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> into the other side, to the <span class="region">Christian side</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2615">Going in through that we had to go in to a big pile of garbage. </sentence><sentence id="2616">Under that garbage, we had hidden a tiny little <span class="dlf">door</span> from the top to go into that. </sentence><sentence id="2617">At that time I knew already my wife...I met her there after I got back from the <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span>...something like that I met her, and I said, "Regina, I have a place." </sentence><sentence id="2618">We went over there... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2865">Q: Do you mean the woman who later became your wife? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2867">A: Became my wife. </sentence><sentence id="2868">Yes. </sentence><sentence id="2869"><span class="populated place">Regina</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2873">Q: </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2875">A: _____ <span class="populated place">Regina</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2876">And I'm going over to that place. </sentence><sentence id="2877">I'm opening up this and she said, "I won't go in. </sentence><sentence id="2878">If you want, you go in. </sentence><sentence id="2879">I don't want to go in." </sentence><sentence id="2880">I said, "If you're not going in, I'm not going in either." </sentence><sentence id="2881">What it happened, people went in and they with dynamite they destroyed the whole <span class="region">land</span> of that <span class="region">strip</span> about 6, 7 <span class="building">houses</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2882">Took out 3, 4...3 stories, 4 stories, 2 stories and all the people got killed. </sentence><sentence id="2883">The rest of the people the Judenrat and most of the police they took to the <span class="dlf">cemetery</span> and they killed them. </sentence><sentence id="2884">Before that it happened...I got to mention it. </sentence><sentence id="2885">Before that it was on Purim, 1943, the guard came over and he said to the Judenrat before...just shortly before that, because that what happened in June and Purim was in the end of March. </sentence><sentence id="2886">He said, "We got a contract with the British government. </sentence><sentence id="2887">We're going to release part of you and they're going to release some of our soldiers which they are under the British. </sentence><sentence id="2888">Some are doctors, engineers, rich people, electricians, and all kind. </sentence><sentence id="2889">By among they took 152 people. </sentence><sentence id="2890">We will give you passports. </sentence><sentence id="2891">We will transfer you to <span class="country">Palestine</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2892">Everyone was happy. </sentence><sentence id="2893">From them gonna give all they have, more than they had to be included in that group. </sentence><sentence id="2894">One of them...a doctor, Doctor Connon, with his wife. </sentence><sentence id="2895">An elderly man, a doctor, he fell asleep. </sentence><sentence id="2896">He didn't go. </sentence><sentence id="2897">What do you think they did to that group? </sentence><sentence id="2898">They took all those girls, about 150 people into the <span class="dlf">cemetery</span> and they killed them. </sentence><sentence id="2899">And this doctor, because he fell asleep with his wife, was missing. </sentence><sentence id="2900">And then they liquidated the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> and they got rid of those <span class="building">houses</span> with the people they were hidden in it. </sentence><sentence id="2901">They took us to the <span class="populated place">labor camp</span>...to the...in <span class="populated place">Czestochowa</span> ____. </sentence><sentence id="2902">Over there, we worked there from the end of June 1943 until the liberation. </sentence><sentence id="2903">The 16th of January 1945 we were liberated through the Russian troops. </sentence><sentence id="2904">And from over there...1 worked there in my trade. </sentence><sentence id="2905">Only my trade a working, as a barber. </sentence><sentence id="2906">They needed <span class="building">barbers</span> over there, so I worked over there. </sentence><sentence id="2907">I was very... was almost fluently in the...in the German language, writing, and also in speaking it. </sentence><sentence id="2908">I never wanted to be any of this big people. </sentence><sentence id="2909">I was plain working man. </sentence><sentence id="2910">As a matter of fact, the director of this <span class="building">factory</span>, it happened that this one of humanbeing I would call from the German government...a name by Director Litt. </sentence><sentence id="2911">He was in the <span class="building">parliament</span> and he was also from the family of Franz. </sentence><sentence id="2912">He took the people and he said, "This is your <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2913">You're gonna stay here as long as you will be alive. </sentence><sentence id="2914">You're gonna be...you're not going back anymore to that <span class="populated place">ghetto</span>." </sentence><sentence id="2915">At that time I was...I was still in the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span>, but when I came over he called, "Who knows German?" </sentence><sentence id="2916">I said, "I know German." " </sentence><sentence id="2917">You're going to be the foreman of the <span class="building">barbers</span>." </sentence><sentence id="2918">I said, "No, There's an elderly man. </sentence><sentence id="2919">I respected him very, very by the name of Goldberg. </sentence><sentence id="2920">He was in our <span class="populated place">city</span> a <span class="building">legislature</span>, and he was a big man. </sentence><sentence id="2921">I said, "The job goes to him." </sentence><sentence id="2922">And I...and I worked as a barber until almost the end of it, when they start in 1945 when the front with the Russians came closer, they start to liquidate that <span class="building">factory</span> too where we worked. </sentence><sentence id="2923">They took away every day people. </sentence><sentence id="2924">And I said to myself and also to a few friends, "I am not going anymore into a <span class="spatial object">cattle train</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2925">I know where this thing goes. </sentence><sentence id="2926">If anything happens, they're going to take me I'm gonna escape." </sentence><sentence id="2927">And I even said to Regina, "Don't go after me. </sentence><sentence id="2928">You don't know me any more. </sentence><sentence id="2929">I don't know you any more. </sentence><sentence id="2930">Just you wait. </sentence><sentence id="2931">If I go, I will escape. </sentence><sentence id="2932">I will not go in the <span class="spatial object">wagons</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2933">If they kill me, I will not go in the <span class="spatial object">wagons</span>." </sentence><sentence id="2934">At day time, they took out...a day before, over 2,000 women. </sentence><sentence id="2935">Day after, they took out a thousand men, and they send them...the women they send to <span class="populated place">Ravensbruck</span>, <span class="populated place">Bergen-Belsen</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2936">The men they sent to <span class="populated place">Buchenwald</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2937">I didn't go with that group. </sentence><sentence id="2938">And the afternoon, seeing what's going on over there, that the Germans are getting nervous. </sentence><sentence id="2939">Some of them did try to escape, and I tried to go through the <span class="dlf">wires</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2940">So one of the Ukrainians said, "Look, don't do that." </sentence><sentence id="2941">The voice was different than a day before. </sentence><sentence id="2942">He begged us...not he ordered us, but he begged us that we shouldn't escape now. </sentence><sentence id="2943">Later it was gonna get dark. </sentence><sentence id="2944">What happened? </sentence><sentence id="2945">We saw...myself and some other of them...some of the Germans, they were carrying bombs to blow up the <span class="building">factory</span> with the people, but it was so fast. </sentence><sentence id="2946">I wasn't there already. </sentence><sentence id="2947">I went outside by myself. </sentence><sentence id="2948">Then it happened that I...there was too many Germans. </sentence><sentence id="2949">I couldn't go through. </sentence><sentence id="2950">I came back and I said to Regina, "This time, you're going with me." </sentence><sentence id="2951">I took her out the <span class="dlf">wires</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2952">We went around. </sentence><sentence id="2953">Imagine that L...I would say I was almost like born in the <span class="populated place">city</span>, and I didn't know where to go. </sentence><sentence id="2954">The place where I wanted to go couldn't go through. </sentence><sentence id="2955">It was full of Germans. </sentence><sentence id="2956">On the other side I wanted to go to the old <span class="populated place">town</span> of the <span class="populated place">city</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2957">Everything inside was burning. </sentence><sentence id="2958">Well, I decided to go a different way, just to go near that place. </sentence><sentence id="2959">I had a friend of mine, a Christian friend. </sentence><sentence id="2960">I had many, many of them before the war, by the name of Berenski, Adolph Berenski. </sentence><sentence id="2961">Very, highly educated man. </sentence><sentence id="2962">And I tried to go...to get to him, but wherever I went I couldn't get through. </sentence><sentence id="2963">And there's another story with him either. </sentence><sentence id="2964">It is worthwhile mentioning it. </sentence><sentence id="2965">This friend of mine, when I got back from <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span>, he had a <span class="building">factory</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2966">He had a big <span class="building">factory</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2967">A rich man, rich boy. </sentence><sentence id="2968">He was married. </sentence><sentence id="2969">A rich boy, fine educated. </sentence><sentence id="2970">He wanted to divide a part of the <span class="building">factory</span> and to make a small <span class="interior space">room</span> into...put me in that part. </sentence><sentence id="2971">Me, the two friends of mine from <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span> and <span class="populated place">Regina</span> and some of...one friend...one of our other friend had a girl or so. </sentence><sentence id="2972">He said, "I have everything ready. </sentence><sentence id="2973">I just want you to come over there." </sentence><sentence id="2974">I don't know. </sentence><sentence id="2975">I had no feeling for it. </sentence><sentence id="2976">I had no heart to do it. </sentence><sentence id="2977">In my heart, even we grew up together I didn't trust him. </sentence><sentence id="2978">Don't ask me why. </sentence><sentence id="2979">I don't know why. </sentence><sentence id="2980">And I didn't go. </sentence><sentence id="2981">Now listen carefully to it. </sentence><sentence id="2982">He did a lot of for some of his friends, Jewish people. </sentence><sentence id="2983">He sent in food. </sentence><sentence id="2984">He sent in clothes to the <span class="populated place">concentration camp</span> where we were and he helped them a lot. </sentence><sentence id="2985">After the liberation I found out a story, an unbelievable story. </sentence><sentence id="2986">One of his girlfriend, which was a friend of mine. </sentence><sentence id="2987">In fact she is now...she's living now. </sentence><sentence id="2988">I just saw her not so long ago. </sentence><sentence id="2989">He did a lot for her and for her sister and some of the family. </sentence><sentence id="2990">He had a girlfriend, a Christian girlfriend. </sentence><sentence id="2991">You know after going around a time with her, it happened she got pregnant. </sentence><sentence id="2992">A Christian girl got pregnant. </sentence><sentence id="2993">Why I'm telling you this story is she...this girl, she was with a sister. </sentence><sentence id="2994">They had two sisters, Jewish sisters hidden in their <span class="building">house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2995">He knew about it, but he wouldn't believe it. </sentence><sentence id="2996">When he ordered her to get rid of the pregnancy and he didn't want to marry her, he went to the Gestapo and to the other...and he told them that those two sisters had hidden two girls in their <span class="interior space">bunker</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2997">They took them out and they killed them, and the two sisters...they took away. </sentence><sentence id="2998">They send them to <span class="populated place">Ravensbruck</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2999">This girl got rid of the pregnancy and she was working in the <span class="populated place">Ravensbruck</span> for a time. </sentence><sentence id="3000">She was liberated. </sentence><sentence id="3001">She got back to <span class="populated place">Czestochowa</span>, and he was in the <span class="populated place">city</span> already a big man. </sentence><sentence id="3002">Everybody knew him. </sentence><sentence id="3003">Nice, fine man. </sentence><sentence id="3004">Nobody knew about...knows about his story. </sentence><sentence id="3005">When she got back, she went to the...Polish police at that time, and she told them the story. </sentence><sentence id="3006">And they called them in. " </sentence><sentence id="3007">Is that this?" </sentence><sentence id="3008">He said, "Yes, it's true." </sentence><sentence id="3009">They jailed him, and he got 15 years in <span class="building">jail</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3010">After living in <span class="building">jail</span> or a year, a little more than a year, he committed suicide. </sentence><sentence id="3011">That's the man I didn't trust him. </sentence><sentence id="3012">I didn't go to him. </sentence><sentence id="3013">And something...something is luck. </sentence><sentence id="3014">We had all kind of people. </sentence><sentence id="3015">We had in the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> even Jewish people...I don't have to tell you, if you are in this kind...they working...they were working against the Jewish people. ___ </sentence><sentence id="3016">I'm sorry to say that this true. </sentence><sentence id="3017">And that happened. </sentence><sentence id="3018">It happened in our...in our <span class="populated place">town</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3019">We had a few men. </sentence><sentence id="3020">I don't have to mention the names. </sentence><sentence id="3021">If you want I could mention it. </sentence><sentence id="3022">Yes? </sentence><sentence id="3023">I don't think so which is very...because we are Jewish people, we shouldn't tell stories like that. </sentence><sentence id="3024">But for the, you know, documentary and for the history, everything has to be open. </sentence><sentence id="3025">One of them was a <span class="building">Rosenberg</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3026">He was a policeman. </sentence><sentence id="3027">The other one was by the name of <span class="populated place">Slemmer</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3028">There were two brothers. </sentence><sentence id="3029">One of them was involved. </sentence><sentence id="3030">The other wasn't involved. </sentence><sentence id="3031">Was a <span class="building">barber</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3032">Nice man. </sentence><sentence id="3033">But because he was with his brother all the time, take him also. </sentence><sentence id="3034">One of them was a <span class="building">baker</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3035">He was head man before the war from the <span class="building">bakers</span>, even he could write and read. </sentence><sentence id="3036">Well, he got rich. </sentence><sentence id="3037">His really name...they call him Kollibike. </sentence><sentence id="3038">That's how they called him. </sentence><sentence id="3039">And there were two more boys. </sentence><sentence id="3040">I don't want to mention the names because their two brothers are alive, and I'm close with them. </sentence><sentence id="3041">They were working against. </sentence><sentence id="3042">What that mean against? </sentence><sentence id="3043">They organized a group from those...one of them, the <span class="spatial object">Kollibike</span>, and that policeman, Roseberg, he worked with the German together. </sentence><sentence id="3044">Announced it for the Germans, whatever was going on, who is organizing an escape, who is organizing an uprising. </sentence><sentence id="3045">We find that out. </sentence><sentence id="3046">And in our <span class="populated place">ghetto</span>, we have a group of people...we took not all at one time...one everyone...a wife to a <span class="building">house</span>...it was not far from my <span class="building">house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3047">Over there we had lawyers, real lawyers. </sentence><sentence id="3048">We had also a prosecutor. </sentence><sentence id="3049">We had judges, real judges before the war. </sentence><sentence id="3050">It was a trial. </sentence><sentence id="3051">They tried him for treason against the Jewish people, and we decided death penalty. </sentence><sentence id="3052">And death penalty was done on the spot. </sentence><sentence id="3053">On the spot and in a <span class="spatial object">bottle</span>, wrote down the whole story, buried the <span class="spatial object">bottle</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3054">And we did that with him and the other one. </sentence><sentence id="3055">The other group of four people, they didn't do that. </sentence><sentence id="3056">They didn't work together with the Germans, but what they did is they organized themselves a little group and they went in the name of the partisans to the people...Jewish people which they knew they had money, hidden money. </sentence><sentence id="3057">We offered the partisan. </sentence><sentence id="3058">We don't want money and this and that and in the meantime, they grabbed the money and spent the money, all kind of thing. </sentence><sentence id="3059">And people _____ and they didn't like it. </sentence><sentence id="3060">And they decided to get rid of them, and they got rid of them. </sentence><sentence id="3061">That was going on and on. </sentence><sentence id="3062">And barely liquidation...and I tell you liquidation was very horrible because there were old people in <span class="interior space">bunkers</span> hidden all the time. </sentence><sentence id="3063">There were young people and people that went to work and they had their parents in the <span class="interior space">bunkers</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3064">People went to work and they had their children in the <span class="interior space">bunkers</span> and all of a sudden, you know, you cannot go back. </sentence><sentence id="3065">And there were <span class="interior space">bunkers</span>, some of them which because of children they were crying and other thing. </sentence><sentence id="3066">They find out about it, and all the people got killed. </sentence><sentence id="3067">And that is almost til the end of this... Now I want...I wanta go back to the time in <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3068">I didn't mention that, but I have to mention it. </sentence><sentence id="3069">When I worked in the <span class="interior space">gas chamber</span>, that is very, very important voice to me. </sentence><sentence id="3070">By cutting a woman's hair, I met a girl over there. </sentence><sentence id="3071">What can I tell you? </sentence><sentence id="3072">Miss America is a beast according to this girl. </sentence><sentence id="3073">A beauty. </sentence><sentence id="3074">A beauty from <span class="region">beauty land</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3075">While cutting her hair, she looks at me she says, "Look, I see you are a young man. </sentence><sentence id="3076">Do something that you should be able to escape and go over...tell the people what is happening here. </sentence><sentence id="3077">Especially, go. </sentence><sentence id="3078">Maybe my father is alive. </sentence><sentence id="3079">I know he is alive because he was a pharmacist in a little <span class="populated place">town</span>." </sentence><sentence id="3080">I said to her, "Look, what are you trying to do? </sentence><sentence id="3081">Can I escape from death?" </sentence><sentence id="3082">She insisted, she said, my name is Salli Levinson . </sentence><sentence id="3083">I am from a little <span class="populated place">town</span> by the name of <span class="populated place">Koanst</span> in <span class="country">Poland</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3084">My father is the head man from the <span class="building">Judenrat</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3085">Now he is a pharmacist and tell what is going on what happened to me. </sentence><sentence id="3086">And you know something, behind my mind I had all the time in me and in a little way that pushed me a little bit because of her words to do it. </sentence><sentence id="3087">Over there in that...in that little ___. </sentence><sentence id="3088">Oh, I tell you...I tell you the reaction with this with other people, they came in. </sentence><sentence id="3089">Coming in to the <span class="interior space">gas chamber</span>, the woman mostly...the men we didn't do. </sentence><sentence id="3090">We didn't cut their hair. </sentence><sentence id="3091">Only women. </sentence><sentence id="3092">But when they came in they people from <span class="country">Poland</span>...from what <span class="populated place">city</span> they come forth doesn't matter,..about 50, 60 percent they knew already they're not going to take <span class="interior space">showers</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3093">They're going to be gassed. </sentence><sentence id="3094">They knew it. </sentence><sentence id="3095">There wasn't any...any outcry. </sentence><sentence id="3096">There wasn't any panic. </sentence><sentence id="3097">They were I would say released from their pain, from their going through what they went through all the time until to the end of their life. </sentence><sentence id="3098">But most what it happened when we have <span class="spatial object">transports</span> from other <span class="region">part of Europe</span>, like from <span class="country">Czechoslovakia</span>, from...from <span class="country">Austria</span>, from <span class="country">Germany</span>, from <span class="country">Yugoslavia</span>, those people they didn't know. </sentence><sentence id="3099">Until going in to the <span class="interior space">gas chamber</span>, they couldn't believe that is their last wake. </sentence><sentence id="3100">First thing, they didn't come by <span class="spatial object">cattle train</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3101">They came in..in the big <span class="spatial object">wagons</span>, the <span class="spatial object">pullman wagons</span> and they were sitting in comfortable. </sentence><sentence id="3102">Some of them were playing cards. </sentence><sentence id="3103">Some of they...some of them, you know, they were having a good time. </sentence><sentence id="3104">At the <span class="dlf">railroad stops</span>, they could walk out the <span class="spatial object">trains</span> to go over to the places where they could buy coffee, drinks, other things, and go in back to the <span class="spatial object">train</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3105">When they came in and I remember at one time, I happened I went into the <span class="spatial object">train</span> in <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span> like that. </sentence><sentence id="3106">And told the people to go out. </sentence><sentence id="3107">One of the...was from the <span class="country">Germany</span>, they came. </sentence><sentence id="3108">He had a fight with those people. </sentence><sentence id="3109">He wanted to take his <span class="spatial object">umbrella</span> with him. </sentence><sentence id="3110">He wouldn't...he wouldn't go with <span class="spatial object">umbrella</span>, and... Anyway, we crossed. </sentence><sentence id="3111">I told him the way you go you don't need anymore <span class="spatial object">umbrella</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3112">Well, it didn't come to his mind. </sentence><sentence id="3113">Those were the people they didn't believe. </sentence><sentence id="3114">Absolutely. </sentence><sentence id="3115">But the people from <span class="country">Poland</span>, around <span class="country">Poland</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3116">They all...they believers. </sentence><sentence id="3117">Now one particular <span class="spatial object">transport</span> I will tell you. </sentence><sentence id="3118">Come to <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span> from a little <span class="populated place">village</span> not far away, about 12 kilometer away. </sentence><sentence id="3119">This time when it was <span class="country">Poland</span> I...i went over there. </sentence><sentence id="3120">They came in not by <span class="spatial object">train</span>, not by <span class="spatial object">wagon</span>, but Ukrainian and the German took him by foot. </sentence><sentence id="3121">It was some kind of holiday. </sentence><sentence id="3122">Don't remember what kind it was exactly. </sentence><sentence id="3123">They went in...covered head, and calling up the out-cries, , and they went into the <span class="interior space">gas chamber</span> at that time when outside we didn't work. </sentence><sentence id="3124">It was long time we didn't work. </sentence><sentence id="3125">What was on? </sentence><sentence id="3126">This...uh...commandant or was commandant...lager, . </sentence><sentence id="3127">He was a sportsman. </sentence><sentence id="3128">He organized a box match. </sentence><sentence id="3129">Fighters, really fighters. </sentence><sentence id="3130">We had a man. </sentence><sentence id="3131">He was in his class, ___ in <span class="country">Poland</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3132">You heard of thing. </sentence><sentence id="3133">Now there was another...another one from <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span> and this one came from the...from the...from <span class="building">jail</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3134">He was not kosher man. </sentence><sentence id="3135">Even in <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span> was...<span class="building">Yomkiller</span> they called. </sentence><sentence id="3136">They had a fight. </sentence><sentence id="3137">A regular fight. </sentence><sentence id="3138">Here you gotta fight. </sentence><sentence id="3139">You got entertainment and 10 feet away a bunch of people I would say maybe 200, 250 men, woman, children walking into the <span class="interior space">gas chamber</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3140">If we could sit 2 hours more...it's very hard to describe and to tell every second, every minute and every hour or day what was going on in <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3141"><span class="populated place">Treblinka</span> wasn't a <span class="populated place">camp</span> for work. </sentence><sentence id="3142">It wasn't anything. </sentence><sentence id="3143">Only what we people did, we worked by dead people. </sentence><sentence id="3144">And that was going on until the uprising in <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3145">The uprising I wasn't there. </sentence><sentence id="3146">I know a lot about it. </sentence><sentence id="3147">I was almost involved about it. </sentence><sentence id="3148">I know exactly how it happened. </sentence><sentence id="3149">I know who was involved. </sentence><sentence id="3150">The uprising was in August 1943 where the <span class="populated place">camp</span> was liquidated. </sentence><sentence id="3151">Everything was liquidated and nothing is showing over there, besides what they put up...the Polish government put up just symbol stones. </sentence><sentence id="3152">And coming over there that I had to mention that because this is the first time...and I don't know I'm gonna go again. </sentence><sentence id="3153">I was there a couple months ago. </sentence><sentence id="3154">At that place when I went in with all my family, and I looked at the place and had arguments this and this, this and that. </sentence><sentence id="3155">I said, "No, this place was only a <span class="populated place">Jewish place</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3156">If you say <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span>, if you say <span class="populated place">Buchenwald</span>, <span class="populated place">Dachau</span>, there were other <span class="country">nations</span> which they were gassed too. </sentence><sentence id="3157">I cannot deny this. </sentence><sentence id="3158">But this place in <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span> was strictly for Jewish people. </sentence><sentence id="3159">Besides 3 or 4 <span class="spatial object">wagons</span>, not <span class="spatial object">trains</span>, but <span class="spatial object">wagons</span> shipped...<span class="spatial object">ships</span>, they took them in and they gassed them together with the Jewish people. </sentence><sentence id="3160">Not any other one. </sentence><sentence id="3161">If somebody came in, let's say what it was a Aktion against people, and they took him into the <span class="spatial object">wagon</span> and someone had business in the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> at the same time he didn't know because nobody knew, it could happen, 1, 5...little more, maybe a little less got in in the <span class="dlf">trap</span> and they couldn't get out...go out for no money at all because whoever was in <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span>, there was no way out. </sentence><sentence id="3162">Whatever they saw, they had to finish them up. </sentence><sentence id="3163">So it could be. </sentence><sentence id="3164">Beside that, there was no other <span class="populated place">camp</span> which was strictly Jewish people. </sentence><sentence id="3165">Now also for the story, if you say mostly... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3457">Q: We have to stop and pause and change tapes. </sentence><sentence id="3458">We'll change tapes and then we'll go on. </sentence><sentence id="3459"> Tape #4 </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3460">Q: The tape is on. </sentence><sentence id="3461">Before they start the tape, let me ask you something. </sentence><sentence id="3462"><span class="populated place">Treblinka</span>? </sentence><sentence id="3463">Did you know Ivan the Terrible? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3468">A: Yes. </sentence><sentence id="3469">Yes. </sentence><sentence id="3470">I knew him very well. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3474">Q: Alright. </sentence><sentence id="3475">We're going to go back to <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3476">What can you tell me about Ivan the Terrible in <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3480">A: Oh, I was in <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3481">I saw Ivan the Terrible. </sentence><sentence id="3482">I remember him very well. </sentence><sentence id="3483">I saw many times I did not work under his control because after liquidating the cutting the hair in <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span> No. </sentence><sentence id="3484">2 in the <span class="interior space">gas chambers</span>, I never went back again to <span class="populated place">Treblinka 2</span>, so I got not involved with him, but I know him. </sentence><sentence id="3485">I saw him going around in the...in <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span> No. </sentence><sentence id="3486">| where we worked and our people from the <span class="building">Sort _ kommando</span> and other work what the...we people did. </sentence><sentence id="3487">Many times I saw him and that is without hesitation it is him. </sentence><sentence id="3488">It is the same. </sentence><sentence id="3489">The same one. </sentence><sentence id="3490">And I got friends of mine, at least five, six of them. </sentence><sentence id="3491">I was together with them. </sentence><sentence id="3492">Every one of them recognized him. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3506">Q: As who? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3508">A: As Ivan the Terrible. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3510">Q: You talking about later, <span class="building">John Demyonim</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3512">A: <span class="building">John Demyonim</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3513">Yes. </sentence><sentence id="3514">Everyone recognized him. </sentence><sentence id="3515">And let me tell you, if they say that people sometime they..uh... don't recognize, they forget and the other thing. </sentence><sentence id="3516">I was a few times as a witness in <span class="country">Germany</span> against some Nazis in...uh...in...uh.... in <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3522">Q: Who? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3524">A: I was a..for instance, . </sentence><sentence id="3525">You heard the name? </sentence><sentence id="3526">His was in...in...uh...<span class="populated place">Frankfort</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3527">There was no trial like it's going on in the other part of <span class="country">countries</span> and especially the <span class="country">United States</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3528">When I came in we were over there 10 or 12 witnesses. </sentence><sentence id="3529"><span class="building">Riceman</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3530">Maybe you know the name? </sentence><sentence id="3531">Sam Riceman was my friend from <span class="populated place">Montreal</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3532">He's not alive anymore. </sentence><sentence id="3533">Passed away. </sentence><sentence id="3534">Catholic. </sentence><sentence id="3535">He was from my <span class="populated place">home town</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3536">Was many of them. </sentence><sentence id="3537">At times we were at least 12 or 14 witnesses at the trial. </sentence><sentence id="3538">Coming in over there, it was a different style of trial. </sentence><sentence id="3539">I have never seen that trial. </sentence><sentence id="3540">I can tell you my part. </sentence><sentence id="3541">I cannot tell you other parts because I wasn't there when testifying from other ones. </sentence><sentence id="3542">When I came in...State your name, so and so, so and so. </sentence><sentence id="3543">Fine. </sentence><sentence id="3544">Okay? </sentence><sentence id="3545">Sit down. </sentence><sentence id="3546">Swear. </sentence><sentence id="3547">Okay. </sentence><sentence id="3548">You know against who you are a witness? </sentence><sentence id="3549">I said, "Yes, I'm a witness against Joseph . </sentence><sentence id="3550">His name in <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span> was . </sentence><sentence id="3551">And I'm here to testify it. " </sentence><sentence id="3552">Well, if you're going to testify, you know who the man is?" " </sentence><sentence id="3553">I know. </sentence><sentence id="3554">I worked there so many times." " </sentence><sentence id="3555">Will you recognize him?" </sentence><sentence id="3556">I said, "Yes, I will recognize him. </sentence><sentence id="3557">I think so will recognize him." </sentence><sentence id="3558">So they just said to me, "He is here. </sentence><sentence id="3559">Point your finger where he is?" </sentence><sentence id="3560">Now you got a mob of people between 4 or 5 hundred. </sentence><sentence id="3561">Civil clothes. </sentence><sentence id="3562">I have never seen the man in civil clothes, and also the other ones....I have never seem them. </sentence><sentence id="3563">Now that wasn't myself...me myself, but the minute I raised my eyes and I looked around and I saw his eyes, I said, "This is the man." </sentence><sentence id="3564">You know, like you coming in and the man sits on his <span class="spatial object">bench</span> and you say again, "No, you have to point out which one it is." </sentence><sentence id="3565">They called him on the witness...on the <span class="interior space">stand</span> and I testified. </sentence><sentence id="3566">Now, talking about <span class="populated place">Demyonick</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3567">We were 14 people forth. </sentence><sentence id="3568">Every one...every single one not seeing him in the military clothes, only in the civil clothes, pointed out him and recognized him. </sentence><sentence id="3569">You wanta tell me that man...like _. </sentence><sentence id="3570">like , like , and more of them they worked with them for 13 months. </sentence><sentence id="3571">Day and night they don't recognize him. </sentence><sentence id="3572">He...only his excuse is only...and that's the only one. </sentence><sentence id="3573">That's another one. </sentence><sentence id="3574">He is not the same. </sentence><sentence id="3575">For he doesn't know...he does not remember where he was those two years. </sentence><sentence id="3576">The same time it happened...it happened to . </sentence><sentence id="3577">He blinks. </sentence><sentence id="3578">Two years he blinks. </sentence><sentence id="3579">He doesn't know. </sentence><sentence id="3580">But we know. </sentence><sentence id="3581">We know. </sentence><sentence id="3582">We know our good friends and we know who's real. </sentence><sentence id="3583">We will remember all the time of our life. </sentence><sentence id="3584">We will remember our enemies. </sentence><sentence id="3585">No question about it. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3648">Q: Alright. </sentence><sentence id="3649">Thank you. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3652">A: You are welcome. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3654">Q: Tell me about...very briefly, about liberation and <span class="populated place">Czestochowa</span> and what you and your wife did afterwards. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3656">A: Oh, liberation in <span class="populated place">Czestochowa</span> going. </sentence><sentence id="3657">We were liberated ourselves, January 16. </sentence><sentence id="3658">Going out from there we had no place where to go. </sentence><sentence id="3659">Luckily we went in at the night before the...we were liberated...that I escaped from over there with my wife, went into a <span class="building">Polish house</span>, and the fight was going on. </sentence><sentence id="3660">We pretended we were Christian which I couldn't. </sentence><sentence id="3661">My face has a good face. </sentence><sentence id="3662">mean for___. </sentence><sentence id="3663">And we stayed in their <span class="building">house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3664">In the morning, one woman came in. </sentence><sentence id="3665">She said, "So many people is outside. </sentence><sentence id="3666">I think that <span class="populated place">concentration camp</span> people is all <span class="region">outside</span>." </sentence><sentence id="3667">When my wife heard this and I did also she said to me in Yiddish because she did...the woman where we were in that place and there were so more friends, neighbors, they didn't know that. </sentence><sentence id="3668">She said in Yiddish, "Come." </sentence><sentence id="3669">I go out and I see. </sentence><sentence id="3670">So I went over there and I went to that friend of mine which I mentioned before, Adolf Berenski. </sentence><sentence id="3671">I was in his <span class="building">house</span> for awhile, then I met another Pollack. </sentence><sentence id="3672">He said, "Abe, you gotta come to me." </sentence><sentence id="3673">I went over there to him. </sentence><sentence id="3674">I was in his <span class="building">house</span> for two days I think and then a rumor what's going on that the German is coming back. </sentence><sentence id="3675">So what he did he said, "Oh, Come here. __. </sentence><sentence id="3676">So I went to other friends. </sentence><sentence id="3677">They want...I was in <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span> with them. </sentence><sentence id="3678">I went over there to them and we stayed for awhile. </sentence><sentence id="3679">Until we start to get together but I don't want to be too long in my <span class="populated place">home town</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3680">I went back to that place, <span class="building">Boyden-Obersladzen</span>, met some other friends, and I met another friend from <span class="populated place">Treblinka</span> by the name of Borax, Gustaf Borax. </sentence><sentence id="3681">Maybe you heard that name. </sentence><sentence id="3682">He's now an elderly man. </sentence><sentence id="3683">He's about 90 years old at least. </sentence><sentence id="3684">Lhear he lives <span class="populated place">Haifa</span>, I met him. </sentence><sentence id="3685">We opened up a <span class="building">barber shop</span> in...over there and we had a very...that was in beginning of March 1945. </sentence><sentence id="3686">We had a nice <span class="interior space">apartment</span> from the Germans. </sentence><sentence id="3687">The <span class="building">apartments</span> were empty because they...they run away. </sentence><sentence id="3688">They were afraid for the Russians. </sentence><sentence id="3689">Most of them they went on the...on the <span class="region">west side</span>, because they wanted to be behind American or English instead of the Russian. </sentence><sentence id="3690">Any way it happened it didn't took too long, just across my <span class="building">barber shop</span> was a <span class="building">jewelry store</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3691">A man, their brother, their two sons...staying in the <span class="building">barber shop</span> working over something...shots across the <span class="dlf">street</span> came in from the ARKA. </sentence><sentence id="3692">They killed the son and the father. </sentence><sentence id="3693">The same day I came <span class="building">home</span> and I said to the children, "Pack whatever you got and that's last time we're going to see _." </sentence><sentence id="3694">The following day we left and we went to the <span class="populated place">border town</span> of <span class="country">Germany</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3695">I had papers over there ready <span class="country">Germany</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3696">We went through <span class="country">Czechoslovakia</span> into <span class="country">Germany</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3697">And we stayed one time in <span class="populated place">Bamberg</span> and then we went to a little place in near <span class="populated place">Regensburg</span> by the name of <span class="populated place">Fogenstein</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3698">I had over there also to do. </sentence><sentence id="3699">In that...in that little <span class="building">Fogenstein</span>...we came in over there. </sentence><sentence id="3700">We were a handful of people. </sentence><sentence id="3701">We were two or three women, about 8 men, 8 or 9 men. </sentence><sentence id="3702">I was the one...I spoke German, so it's going into the <span class="building">Bergenmeister</span> which you call mayor of that little <span class="populated place">town</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3703">The whole population was about 2 thousand. </sentence><sentence id="3704">We went over there because over there we could get food. </sentence><sentence id="3705">And in a big <span class="populated place">town</span> like in <span class="populated place">Bamberg</span>, it was very hard. </sentence><sentence id="3706">And we had a little...not...we had a little fight. </sentence><sentence id="3707">We were people from <span class="populated place">concentration camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3708">The governor...the American governor, he said that we have a right to get the same thing what the German people. </sentence><sentence id="3709">We don't have to stand in a <span class="dlf">line</span> behind two thousand people. </sentence><sentence id="3710">We're sick people, suffered, so whenever we came...and altogether we were Il people, so the mayor said, "No, you have to stand in <span class="dlf">line</span> just like anybody else." </sentence><sentence id="3711">And he was...find out, a big Nazi. </sentence><sentence id="3712">And I was with a friend of mine. </sentence><sentence id="3713">He raised a <span class="spatial object">chair</span> to hit him over the head. </sentence><sentence id="3714">Yes. </sentence><sentence id="3715">And I hit him once. </sentence><sentence id="3716">I never in my life I never had a fight. </sentence><sentence id="3717">I was...I wasn't a youngster running around, never fight, nothing. </sentence><sentence id="3718">This thing I never had. </sentence><sentence id="3719">But I hit him once. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3785">Q: You hit the mayor? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3787">A: Yes. [ </sentence><sentence id="3788">hit him once in the nose and all the thing was...was like coming off. </sentence><sentence id="3789">And all what happened...oh, a big thing in___, the little <span class="populated place">town</span> of <span class="country">Germany</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3790">The Jews tried to killed our mayor. </sentence><sentence id="3791">I ran away from over there with that other man. </sentence><sentence id="3792">Went into <span class="populated place">Regensburg</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3793">Over there was a major from the army. </sentence><sentence id="3794">He was just very funny, Mayor Levine. </sentence><sentence id="3795">Mayor Levine. </sentence><sentence id="3796">So he took us to the <span class="building">governor</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3797">And the governor of that part was a colored man, and he was governor. </sentence><sentence id="3798">Yes. </sentence><sentence id="3799">So we told them the story what had happened. </sentence><sentence id="3800">So he said, "I'm gonna send for the...for the mayor. </sentence><sentence id="3801">Mayor came over with the secretary. </sentence><sentence id="3802">He said, "Look, you are from the Jewish people. </sentence><sentence id="3803">He is from the German people. </sentence><sentence id="3804">Shake hands. </sentence><sentence id="3805">Let's fight this." </sentence><sentence id="3806">I said, "We Jewish people have suffered enough." " </sentence><sentence id="3807">Okay. </sentence><sentence id="3808">Okay, I ready for it." </sentence><sentence id="3809">He said, "No, he doesn't want. </sentence><sentence id="3810">He want us in <span class="building">jail</span>, and he is going to try us and we have to be in <span class="building">jail</span>." </sentence><sentence id="3811">So this governor said, "Okay. </sentence><sentence id="3812">In the meantime, don't touch these two men. </sentence><sentence id="3813">Let them go <span class="building">home</span>." </sentence><sentence id="3814">We went <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3815">It passed about a week, maybe 10 days...all of a sudden I'm going down in the morning. </sentence><sentence id="3816">What I see? </sentence><sentence id="3817">I see about 100, 150 soldiers, American soldiers, surrounded the whole <span class="building">house</span> of that mayor. </sentence><sentence id="3818">You know what had happened? </sentence><sentence id="3819">They took him away. </sentence><sentence id="3820">Some of his friends, they knew that he was a SS man in the <span class="building">Panzer Brigade</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3821">And they took him away. </sentence><sentence id="3822">He was in <span class="building">jail</span> for 6 months...for 6 years. </sentence><sentence id="3823">That incident I have over there. </sentence><sentence id="3824">And then I left. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3863">Q: When did you and your wife leave <span class="country">Europe</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3865">A: Well, we left. </sentence><sentence id="3866">We came here to this <span class="country">country</span>. </sentence><sentence id="3867">We come...we came here "51. </sentence><sentence id="3868">We were at different places. </sentence><sentence id="3869">Then we came here. </sentence><sentence id="3870">We had a rough time here too. </sentence><sentence id="3871">Came without a friend. </sentence><sentence id="3872"> Believe me, . </sentence><sentence id="3873">And in my trade, you cannot be...whatever you're doing here, you cannot be a millionaire. </sentence><sentence id="3874">Okay, you make a day...you make 2, 3 dollars more, 2 or 3 dollars less. </sentence><sentence id="3875">But eventually my wife starts. </sentence><sentence id="3876">She worked a little bit, and we got together maked a living here. </sentence><sentence id="3877">And thank God we are very happy in this <span class="country">country</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3891">Q: Is there anything you want to add? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3893">A: No. </sentence><sentence id="3894">Nothing specially to add to it. </sentence><sentence id="3895">Now when you ask my wife, she will have her story. </sentence><sentence id="3896">I don't want go together my story with her story. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3901">Q: Abe. </sentence><sentence id="3902">Thank you very much. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3905">A: You are very welcome. </sentence><sentence id="3906">It was very welcome. </sentence><sentence id="3907">It was really a pleasure talking to you. </sentence><sentence id="3908">You are a person which you have something in your heart, you mind very well. </sentence><sentence id="3909">But anywhere, you have something...I'd say Jews they are all nationalities, good and bad. </sentence><sentence id="3910">Something of a humanbeing, and that is more important than anything else. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3917">Q: Thank you very much. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3919">A: You are very welcome. </sentence><sentence id="3920"> </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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