|
--- |
|
layout: transcript |
|
interviewee: rose galek brunswic |
|
rg_number: rg-50.030.0044 |
|
pdf_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/oh_findingaids/rg-50.030.0044_trs_en.pdf |
|
ushmm_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn504544 |
|
gender: f |
|
birth_date: none |
|
birth_year: 1920.0 |
|
place_of_birth: sochocin |
|
country: poland |
|
experience_group: survivor |
|
ghetto(s)_encyclopedia: warsaw |
|
ghetto: none |
|
camp(s)_encyclopedia: none |
|
camp: none |
|
non_ss_camp: none |
|
region: west |
|
needs_research: none |
|
data_entry: cl |
|
accession: 1989.h.0342 |
|
revisit: none |
|
tags: transcripts |
|
--- |
|
<!DOCTYPE html> |
|
|
|
<html lang="en"> |
|
<head> |
|
<meta charset="utf-8"/> |
|
<title>Document</title> |
|
</head> |
|
<body><dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="1"> ROSE BRUNSWIC October 5, 1989 </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3">Q: Rose, would you tell me your full name please? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="5">A: My name is Rose Brunswic. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="7">Q: Where were you born? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="9">A: I was born in <span class="country">Poland</span> in <span class="populated place">Sochocin</span>. </sentence><sentence id="10">S-O-C-H-O-C-I-N. Because there is a <span class="building">Socheczew</span>, and people mix up with it. </sentence><sentence id="11">This <span class="populated place">Sochocin</span> is very near <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span>. </sentence><sentence id="12">It's about, I would say, 70 kilometers from <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="17">Q: Thank you. </sentence><sentence id="18">What year were your born? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="21">A: 1920. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="23">Q: Tell me about...uh...<span class="populated place">Sochocin</span>. </sentence><sentence id="24">Tell me about your family there growing up. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="27">A: OK. </sentence><sentence id="28">Growing up in <span class="populated place">Sochocin</span>...it was a very small <span class="populated place">town</span>. </sentence><sentence id="29">I would say about 2 thousand people the most. </sentence><sentence id="30">My father was an industrialist. </sentence><sentence id="31">We had a <span class="building">pearl button factory</span>. </sentence><sentence id="32">All the raw material we imported from <span class="country">Germany</span> or <span class="country">Iran</span>...pearl shells...and I still remembered which I did translating my narrative that we had bought at the last time in <span class="populated place">Hamburg</span>, <span class="country">Germany</span>, it O.A.Sanithousen. </sentence><sentence id="33">And I wrote to them when I needed for the restitution. </sentence><sentence id="34">I needed some information; and they gave me...they wrote me a letter that my father indeed bought from them material. </sentence><sentence id="35">Also I remembered that my father bought some; <span class="spatial object">machinery</span> from...uh. </sentence><sentence id="36">from <span class="populated place">Vienna</span> and I remembered the name of Mr. Ferdinand Eberall, and I wrote to them...I wrote to <span class="populated place">Vienna</span>, and I got a response from them that my father indeed bought the <span class="spatial object">machinery</span> from them. </sentence><sentence id="37">So I have the authentic letters which I gave to Susan in my...in my narrative. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="49">Q: I see. </sentence><sentence id="50">Could we hold it and stop the tape a minute? </sentence><sentence id="51">It's not your fault. </sentence><sentence id="52">I want to stop it, because she is not fiddling with the mike and I would like you guys to fix the mike. </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="53">Q: OK. </sentence><sentence id="54">The sound is good. </sentence><sentence id="55">What we are going to do is go back to the beginning. </sentence><sentence id="56">We are rolling. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="61">Okay. </sentence><sentence id="62">Rose, could you tell me your full name please? </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="63">A: <span class="building">Rose Brunswic</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="65">Q: And where were you born? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="67">A: I was born in <span class="populated place">Sochocin</span> in <span class="country">Poland</span> near <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span> in 1920. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="69">Q: Tell me about <span class="populated place">Sochocin</span> and about your family. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="71">A: <span class="populated place">Sochocin</span> was a very beautiful little <span class="populated place">town</span>, very small, about 2 thousand people only. </sentence><sentence id="72">Very small. </sentence><sentence id="73">And my father had there a <span class="building">pearl button factory</span>. </sentence><sentence id="74">I went to <span class="building">school</span> there and...uh...we had...uh...between 100 and 120 people in the season in the <span class="building">factory</span>. </sentence><sentence id="75">My father was very successful and I must say in those circumstances then, we were wealthy people. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="81">Q: Tell me about the <span class="building">factory</span>. </sentence><sentence id="82">You had started to tell me that. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="85">A: The <span class="building">factory</span> was, uh, in a...in a special <span class="building">house</span> not far from where we lived and we had, as I said, about 100...120 people employed. </sentence><sentence id="86">We imported our raw materials, which was shells, pearl shells from <span class="country">Germany</span> and sometimes from <span class="country">Persia</span>, which was then... which is now <span class="country">Iran</span>. </sentence><sentence id="87">Most of them was...were imported from <span class="country">Germany</span>...from the firm <span class="building">O.A. Sanithousen</span> in. </sentence><sentence id="88">I can't, remember now the <span class="populated place">town</span>. </sentence><sentence id="89">It just escapes me. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="95">Q: Doesn't matter. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="97">A: And, uh, the <span class="spatial object">machinery</span> and some knives and all the things that we needed to produce the buttons were from <span class="country">Austria</span> from <span class="populated place">Vienna</span> and the the name that I remember was Mr.Ferdinand Eberall and Windbeaer Strabser in <span class="populated place">Vienna</span>. </sentence><sentence id="98">And when I did file for freedom restitution, the Germans needed some confirmation that my father indeed was buying from them material, the raw material and the <span class="spatial object">machinery</span>. </sentence><sentence id="99">I got in touch with <span class="building">O.A. Sanithousen</span>. </sentence><sentence id="100">I got a letter of confirmation from them that indeed my father did buy the raw materials from them. </sentence><sentence id="101">I got a confirmation. </sentence><sentence id="102">I wrote to Mr. Ferdinand Eberall and I got several letters from them confirming that my father indeed bought <span class="spatial object">machinery</span> before 1939 and I have the letters and I put into my narrative as the originals. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="110">Q: OK. </sentence><sentence id="111">Tell me...let's go back to the <span class="populated place">town</span>. </sentence><sentence id="112">Tell me about your family. </sentence><sentence id="113">I would like to know about your parents and what they were like. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="118">A: Yes. </sentence><sentence id="119">Okay. </sentence><sentence id="120">We lived in a <span class="building">house</span> which I saw 2 years ago. </sentence><sentence id="121">I was in <span class="country">Poland</span>. </sentence><sentence id="122">It was my grandmother's <span class="building">house</span>, but my father as the oldest...in the Jewish religion he was a Cohen. </sentence><sentence id="123">He got half of the <span class="building">house</span> and we lived in that <span class="building">house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="124">The other half...was occupied by my grandmother. </sentence><sentence id="125">Her name was Galek--G-A-L-E K--which is my maiden name. </sentence><sentence id="126">She had like a <span class="building">country store</span> and you got the...you could buy anything from soup to nuts, there....everything. </sentence><sentence id="127">People used to come from...the farmers from the <span class="populated place">villages</span>... Every Thursday was <span class="building">market</span> day, and they came and bought all the stuff that they needed from my grandmother. </sentence><sentence id="128">She had a big <span class="building">bakery</span> also. </sentence><sentence id="129">And everything was included there. </sentence><sentence id="130">And when I was there 2 years ago in <span class="country">Poland</span>, I saw... wanted to see the <span class="building">bakery</span> and I found a man who worked there and unfortunately, they transferred...transformed it now to a big <span class="building">office</span>. </sentence><sentence id="131">Okay. </sentence><sentence id="132">I am going back to my grandmother. </sentence><sentence id="133">We were 13 grandchildren and everything was around my grandmother's <span class="building">house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="134">Everybody gathered there for holidays and it was a big thing to go to grandmother. </sentence><sentence id="135">Her name was Zelda Mottel Galek. </sentence><sentence id="136">OK. </sentence><sentence id="137">And everybody knew in the...in the <span class="populated place">village</span>...in this little <span class="populated place">town</span>...everybody knew Mrs. Galkowa. </sentence><sentence id="138">This is Polish. </sentence><sentence id="139">My grandfather wasn't then alive anymore and I never knew my grandmother...my grandfather. </sentence><sentence id="140">Uh...my...we were, as I said, we were very well # +f off. </sentence><sentence id="141">We had...the <span class="building">house</span> had like three tiers...three <span class="interior space">floors</span> and the bottom was the <span class="interior space">kitchen</span> which 2 years ago when I was in <span class="country">Poland</span> a whole family lived in the <span class="interior space">kitchen</span> only and two more families lived on each <span class="interior space">floor</span>. </sentence><sentence id="142">And, uh, we had...I had a very very happy childhood. </sentence><sentence id="143">I attended a <span class="building">school</span>...the <span class="building">public school</span> which was Polish. </sentence><sentence id="144">There were very few Jews. </sentence><sentence id="145">Very few Jews lived in that <span class="populated place">town</span>...very few...and, uh, we had a <span class="building">synagogue</span> in the <span class="populated place">town</span> and my father was...he wasn't exactly religious. </sentence><sentence id="146">We didn't keep a kosher <span class="building">home</span> or anything like that and most of our friends were some of the Jews, but mostly were the Poles. </sentence><sentence id="147">Really. </sentence><sentence id="148">Especially I was very friendly with the...with the children of the director of the <span class="building">school</span> and I was there...we were the only ones from my family that attended <span class="building">school</span> on Saturday...but the other Jews did not attend Saturday <span class="building">school</span> because it was against their religion. </sentence><sentence id="149">So just to tell you 20 H that we were...we were very good, conscientious Jews but never observed kashrut or something like that. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="183">Q: You had sisters and brothers? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="185">A: I had 3 sisters, 2 which perished in the <span class="populated place">concentration camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="186">The third one still lives in <span class="country">Israel</span>. </sentence><sentence id="187">She left just...a few months before the war broke out, she left for <span class="country">Israel</span>. </sentence><sentence id="188">And I a periodically see her. </sentence><sentence id="189">I go to <span class="country">Israel</span>. </sentence><sentence id="190">My parents, unfortunately, were murdered there in front of me, in the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span>. </sentence><sentence id="191">My 2 sisters perished in <span class="populated place">concentration camp</span> which I thought before I die, I wanted to see that where it was, and I went 2 years ago. </sentence><sentence id="192">It was my daughter's 40th birthday, and I gave them a gift. </sentence><sentence id="193">I took the whole family, my daughter, my son-in-law, my grandson and myself. </sentence><sentence id="194">My husband already was disabled and he couldn't go. </sentence><sentence id="195">And, uh, we saw <span class="populated place">Oswiecim</span>. </sentence><sentence id="196"><span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span>, and we saw all the atrocities and it was very painful, very hard, but I am glad that we did take them, because I did want the children to know something about my youth, where I lived and what happened. </sentence><sentence id="197">So I was very glad that I could do that. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="211">Q: Let's go back. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="213">A: Yes. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="215">Q: I want to go back to your childhood still. </sentence><sentence id="216">You have described the <span class="populated place">town</span>. </sentence><sentence id="217">You have described your family a bit. </sentence><sentence id="218">Tell me a bit about your mother. </sentence><sentence id="219">I have...I would like a picture of your mother and a picture of your father. </sentence><sentence id="220">What were they like? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="227">A: Yes. </sentence><sentence id="228">My mother was a very bright, very intelligent person. </sentence><sentence id="229">She was a hat designer when she met my father and then she gave it up. </sentence><sentence id="230">She was a very devoted mother and took very very good care of us children and she instilled in us the value of Judaism and even though we were not, you know, as I told you not kashrut and all that, but very conscientious Jews. </sentence><sentence id="231">And, uh, she was a very pleasant person, very well liked by everybody, and when I met people 2 years ago in <span class="country">Poland</span>, they still remember her and they still remember her and they still remember Fela and they still remembered one woman who went together with my sister in <span class="country">Israel</span> to <span class="building">school</span> and they remember the whole family as a very loving, very caring family and especially also about my grandmother. </sentence><sentence id="232">They loved her. </sentence><sentence id="233">And I was...I had a very happy childhood. </sentence><sentence id="234">I...we...I belonged to the Zionist organization and we had, uh, uh...what is it called...an organization...a youth organization which worked solely for <span class="country">Israel</span>. </sentence><sentence id="235">And I was very active in that, and as a matter of fact, as a product of that my sister went to <span class="country">Israel</span>. </sentence><sentence id="236">She did not want to remain in <span class="country">Poland</span>. </sentence><sentence id="237">She was a very devoted Zionist and she went to <span class="country">Israel</span>. </sentence><sentence id="238">And my childhood was very, very happy. </sentence><sentence id="239">I was always very well dressed, very well taken care of and really living in opulence. </sentence><sentence id="240">We had maids. </sentence><sentence id="241">In the morning we got our first breakfast at 7:00 in the...in the <span class="spatial object">bed</span>. </sentence><sentence id="242">At 9 O'clock we had our breakfast before we left for I f~g <span class="building">school</span> and, uh, at about 2 O'clock we came back from <span class="building">school</span>. </sentence><sentence id="243">We had our big dinner, went back afterwards from 3:00 to 6:00 to <span class="building">school</span> again and I also had Hebrew after <span class="building">school</span> and...uh...twice a week. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="262">Q: Was that unusual for girls at that time? </sentence><sentence id="263">For girls to learn Hebrew? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="266">A: It was not in that <span class="populated place">town</span> because most of the girls belonged to the youth organization and to the Zionist organization and we were all very much introduced to Hebrew. </sentence><sentence id="267">And I spoke very fluently Hebrew at one time. </sentence><sentence id="268">I still read and I understand pretty much, but with talking I have a little bit problem, but when I was in <span class="country">Israel</span>, you know, you pick it up. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="272">Q: Let's stay in <span class="country">Poland</span>. </sentence><sentence id="273">Okay. </sentence><sentence id="274">Pre-war <span class="country">Poland</span>. </sentence><sentence id="275">How did all of /this life change when the Germans came in? </sentence><sentence id="276">When did they come into your <span class="populated place">town</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="282">A: OK. </sentence><sentence id="283">To my <span class="populated place">town</span>, I wasn't there anymore because at certain point we moved to <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="286">Q: When did you move to <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="288">A: The <span class="building">factory</span> was still in <span class="populated place">Sochocin</span> in <span class="country">Poland</span>, but we moved. </sentence><sentence id="289">About 5 years before the war broke out we moved to <span class="country">Poland</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="292">Q: To <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="294">A: To <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span>. </sentence><sentence id="295">Yes. </sentence><sentence id="296">And we lived on <span class="building">Lesno 24</span> in <span class="country">Poland</span>. </sentence><sentence id="297">It was a beautiful <span class="building">building</span> and we loved <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span> because my... my father was about three times a week in <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span> doing business. </sentence><sentence id="298">People came from all over <span class="country">Poland</span> and they came to trade in <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span>. </sentence><sentence id="299">We had, uh...uh...some customers <span class="populated place">Tomaszow</span>, in <span class="populated place">Krakow</span>, in <span class="populated place">Radowicze</span> (ph) and I remember certain, certain places where my father sold buttons to them, but all the selling was done in <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span>. </sentence><sentence id="300">It was like a <span class="building">market</span>, like a <span class="populated place">Chicago</span>...you know...so...uh...and, as I said, I knew only really good things, beautiful things, and in <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span>, we had a chance to . . </sentence><sentence id="301">.to go to <span class="building">theatres</span> and concerts and we were exposed very much to the arts then in <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span>, which we didn't have a chance in...in the little <span class="populated place">town</span>. </sentence><sentence id="302">So my youth was a happy youth and...and...uh...it was wonderful. </sentence><sentence id="303">And then came the Germans </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="314">Q: When did they come? </sentence><sentence id="315">How old were you? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="318">A: Okay. </sentence><sentence id="319">I was about almost 19 years when I first started... when a we moved to <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span>...I started <span class="building">college university</span>... <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span> Colleges University of Warsaw. </sentence><sentence id="320">Just registered when the war broke out in September. </sentence><sentence id="321">I remember like today my father had a very bad premonition that this war is going to be very bad. </sentence><sentence id="322">Well, in <span class="country">Poland</span> if somebody was wealthy, had not only money, but had gold. </sentence><sentence id="323">Okay? </sentence><sentence id="324">Well, we had some gold. </sentence><sentence id="325">We had some gold dollars and lots of gold. </sentence><sentence id="326">He took us together and he said he felt that this is going to be a terrible war. </sentence><sentence id="327">He said g to us we will divide whatever we have. </sentence><sentence id="328">The money was no good anymore, but the gold and the...uh...whatever we have in jewelry, gold jewelry, we'll divide equally to everyone of [Page 11 you...of us...whoever...I remember these words...whoever can save themselves with what he has should do so and at that time, he really divided all the among all of us. </sentence><sentence id="329">Needless to say, it was a terrible moment because we knew from newspapers from before what the Germans are like. </sentence><sentence id="330">And shortly after, the war broke out when they took over <span class="country">Poland</span>. </sentence><sentence id="331">After a little while they started organizing, put all the Jews in certain <span class="dlf">streets</span>. </sentence><sentence id="332">It was, I remember, <span class="populated place">Zamenhof</span> which was mostly Jewish, really, <span class="populated place">Malewki</span> uh, there was another <span class="dlf">street</span> I don't remember very well anymore, but we were all concentrated in these few <span class="dlf">streets</span>...all the Jews were put in to wherever we could. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="349">Q: What were living conditions like in the <span class="populated place">ghettos</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="351">A: The conditions in the beginning, we thought, might be okay. </sentence><sentence id="352">But as we went on, we didn't have enough food; we didn't have enough water; we didn't have enough of anything, and that's when the problems started. </sentence><sentence id="353">Sicknesses started to evolve because we didn't have enough of anything. </sentence><sentence id="354">Okay? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="359">Q: Where were you living? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="361">A: We were living in one <span class="interior space">room</span>. </sentence><sentence id="362">There were about 12 of us. </sentence><sentence id="363">We didn't have any <span class="spatial object">beds</span>. </sentence><sentence id="364">Whatever we could take was on the <span class="interior space">floor</span>. </sentence><sentence id="365">Okay. </sentence><sentence id="366">Whatever we had. </sentence><sentence id="367">The few things that we could take along with us because you had to leave most of it, you had to leave where you where and just...just go. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="375">Q: You had been rounded up before you were taken to the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="377">A: Everybody was rounded up, and you know, I remember they used to take the male Jews to see if they were...what do you say... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="379">Q: Circumcised? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="381">A: Circumcised. </sentence><sentence id="382">And by that they saw who was Jewish because most of the Poles...the Jews in <span class="country">Poland</span>...were circumcised. </sentence><sentence id="383">And that's how they rounded us up. </sentence><sentence id="384">From wherever we lived we had to go to a certain point in <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span> and they...they brought every...all the Jews to these few...uh...<span class="dlf">streets</span> and then they put sort of...uh...like a <span class="dlf">barbed wire</span>...we were having some things that you couldn't move around easily out...and 30 that's how it started. </sentence><sentence id="385">Well, this started around the end of right away as they came. </sentence><sentence id="386">And I lived in the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> until 41. </sentence><sentence id="387">At 41, it was really, really before the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> was set a fire it started to become real bad. </sentence><sentence id="388">People were murdered. </sentence><sentence id="389">People were just taken out for no reason at all and just killed, especially children were just thrown against the <span class="dlf">wall</span>...just killed. </sentence><sentence id="390">Well, at one point they rounded us up all and they had <span class="dlf">lines</span> you stay here you stay here you stay there. </sentence><sentence id="391">At that time we were already...the people started to get separated from their families. </sentence><sentence id="392">If somebody looked well to them enough to be transported to <span class="building">work</span>, which I thought was work, was in one <span class="dlf">line</span>. </sentence><sentence id="393">People were sickly looking...meekly looking, they went in another <span class="dlf">line</span>. </sentence><sentence id="394">Elderly parents went in another <span class="dlf">line</span>. </sentence><sentence id="395">The people that looked too sick to them, they just took care of them right away. </sentence><sentence id="396">Like my parents were, at that time, really very bad looking, and they just shot them right then and there. </sentence><sentence id="397">And not only my parents but a lot of them. </sentence><sentence id="398">I was in the <span class="dlf">line</span> and I tried to run out to help but I was pushed back. </sentence><sentence id="399">You couldn't do anything. </sentence><sentence id="400">My sisters were younger than I. They took them to, to a younger <span class="dlf">line</span>. </sentence><sentence id="401">I was in the older <span class="dlf">line</span>. </sentence><sentence id="402">However, somehow I got out of that <span class="dlf">line</span> and I tried to hide. </sentence><sentence id="403">I got out of that <span class="dlf">line</span> and I was able to get to a hiding place which I hide...I hid. </sentence><sentence id="404">That's how I got out. </sentence><sentence id="405">When the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> was set afire... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="432">Q: No. </sentence><sentence id="433">No. </sentence><sentence id="434">No. </sentence><sentence id="435">I don't want to go there yet. </sentence><sentence id="436">I want you to <span class="dlf">S 6</span> tell me about the hiding. </sentence><sentence id="437">How did you get to the <span class="region">hiding place</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="444">A: I tell you now L...I cannot explain to you how it happened, but there was another Jewish girl with me and we decided that we are not going to let ourselves being taken. </sentence><sentence id="445">The girl....I have a picture of her too. </sentence><sentence id="446">The girl was named Alla and, uh, we tried...we made up our minds we are not going to let ourselves be taken by the Germans, and as they shoved us aside we shoved ourselves further away and we got away from them. </sentence><sentence id="447">And we hid out a little bit for a few days. </sentence><sentence id="448">This was...all that happened shortly before the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> was set afire. </sentence><sentence id="449">They wanted really to exterminate the Jews. </sentence><sentence id="450">Whoever was left to set afire, and they couldn't get out. </sentence><sentence id="451">And we somehow got away from that <span class="dlf">line</span> and got away from it. </sentence><sentence id="452">And when we got away from it and, we hid out a couple of days when they announced the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> is going to be set afire. </sentence><sentence id="453">And Alla and I were in that hiding place. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="464">Q: What hiding place? </sentence><sentence id="465">Describe it. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="468">A: It was like a little <span class="dlf">alley</span> between two <span class="building">houses</span>. </sentence><sentence id="469">We somehow got in between that <span class="dlf">alley</span> and stood there, waited until all the people were taken. </sentence><sentence id="470">You know they took everybody by...uh...uh...<span class="spatial object">cars</span> like they transport...transport animals, you know, <span class="spatial object">trucks</span> like...<span class="spatial object">animal trucks</span>. </sentence><sentence id="471">And everybody was pushed, shoved on the <span class="spatial object">trucks</span>...whoever was taken was supposed to be taken to <span class="country">Germany</span> to work they said. </sentence><sentence id="472">But it wasn't to t~> work unfortunately. </sentence><sentence id="473">It was the <span class="populated place">camp</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="480">Q: Where were your sisters taken? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="482">A: And we were both still in that little <span class="dlf">alley</span>. </sentence><sentence id="483">Well, when it got quiet, we just maneuvered around and we maneuvered around to a <span class="dlf">park</span> where there was...uh...uh...we could stay there for a while, and we stood there not knowing what are we going to do next. </sentence><sentence id="484">Well, we stood there and we scrounged around for food wherever we could, because the Germans had the idea that time that nobody is left, and if somebody is left they couldn't get at them, and that's why they decided to set afire...also because there were a lot of Jews that were <span class="interior space">underground</span>. </sentence><sentence id="485">We somehow got to these underground people. </sentence><sentence id="486">From that... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="492">Q: From the <span class="dlf">park</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="494">A: From that <span class="dlf">park</span> where we're there. </sentence><sentence id="495">After the Germans left, the underground people somehow came...came up from wherever they were...they were hiding in the <span class="interior space">underground</span> and got hold of us. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="498">Q: What year are we? </sentence><sentence id="499">You were talking 19... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="502">A: This is all...this is...this is 1941. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="504">Q: You are still in 1941? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="506">A: Yes. </sentence><sentence id="507">Because we were...until 1941, we...this was the beginning of 1941. </sentence><sentence id="508">The <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> was set afire in March. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="512">Q: Okay. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="514">A: And somehow this was all shortly before the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> was set afire. </sentence><sentence id="515">So from nowhere the people from <span class="interior space">underground</span> showed up and they found the two of us and they took us. </sentence><sentence id="516">And they took us...when they...they took us to their <span class="interior space">underground</span> where they were hiding and kept us. </sentence><sentence id="517">At that time 2 days later, the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> was set afire. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="522">Q: Hold it. </sentence><sentence id="523">I don't want to get there. </sentence><sentence id="524">I want you to describe for me please where they took you. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="528">What was it like? </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="529">A: I don't know where they took us. </sentence><sentence id="530">I don't even know where it was. </sentence><sentence id="531">It was somewhere around the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> and maybe it was in the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span>, but wherever they came up from I have no idea. </sentence><sentence id="532">1 Probably 1943. </sentence><sentence id="533">They were...they just there...like this Pole I found in <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span>....from nowhere he came. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="539">Q: They took you in a <span class="interior space">room</span>? </sentence><sentence id="540">They took us...No. </sentence><sentence id="541">It was...it was like a <span class="interior space">cave</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="542">Q: Okay. </sentence><sentence id="543">Okay. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="546">A: That was their underground hiding place. </sentence><sentence id="547">And the Germans knew that there was such places, but they couldn't lay hands on it, p ~ and therefore, they decided to put the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> on fire...to set the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> on fire to get rid of everybody which they did unfortunately. </sentence><sentence id="548">And that's how we got from the...from the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> with these people took us with their...through their <span class="interior space">caves</span> to the <span class="region">Warsaw side</span> which was called the <span class="region">Irish side</span>....to the <span class="region">Irish side</span>. </sentence><sentence id="549">That's the story how we got out from the, the two girls, myself and Alla, from the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span>. </sentence><sentence id="550">Through these people. </sentence><sentence id="551">These were really martyrs and what happened to them later I have no idea. </sentence><sentence id="552">But that's how we got to the <span class="region">Irish side</span>, and that's where the saga started with me. </sentence><sentence id="553">Somehow Alla and I got separated. </sentence><sentence id="554">She said she was married to a Polish guy, and she said she knows of somebody that could take care of her in <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span> and that is the time where we got separated. </sentence><sentence id="555">And I was alone in <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span>. </sentence><sentence id="556">Okay. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="569">Q: And she's married. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="571">A: That's how I got out of the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="573">Q: Okay. </sentence><sentence id="574">Now the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> has not yet been destroyed? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="577">A: No. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="579">Q: That comes 2 years later? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="581">A: The <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> was destroyed in 41, when we went out. </sentence><sentence id="582">It was...the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> was set afire when we went out. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="585">Q: Okay. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="587">A: Okay. .. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="589">Q: It may have been 1943, but we can deal with that later. </sentence><sentence id="590">Let's talk about you. </sentence><sentence id="591">You are alone? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="595">A: Alone. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="597">Q: Your friend had left? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="599">A: Yes. </sentence><sentence id="600">This was after the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> was set afire, and we went... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="603">Q: After the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> was set afire? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="605">A: Yes. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="607">Q: Where did you go? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="609">A: Okay. </sentence><sentence id="610">I didn't know where to go. </sentence><sentence id="611">But I remembered, you know certain things stay in your mind, that we had a person that worked for my father I think his name was Nodrudtki. </sentence><sentence id="612">I remembered that he lived in <span class="dlf">Jeravia Street</span> in <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span>, and I thought maybe I should try to go there. </sentence><sentence id="613">And I went there and 3 0 a p I found him and he took me in. </sentence><sentence id="614">He said, "I can't keep you long, but I will keep you awhile." </sentence><sentence id="615">That's how...this was my hiding place in <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span>. </sentence><sentence id="616"><span class="building">Jeravia 24</span> or 22 <span class="populated place">Jeravia</span>...20. [ </sentence><sentence id="617">have it written down because I don't remember anymore the names. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="627">Q: Would you describe his <span class="building">house</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="629">A: Okay. </sentence><sentence id="630">When I was in <span class="country">Poland</span>, I went to see it and that <span class="building">house</span> stands. </sentence><sentence id="631">But it was demolished partially by the Germans. </sentence><sentence id="632">The funny part was also I met a lady who works...a Polish lady who works for the <span class="building">Polish Embassy</span> in <span class="populated place">Washington</span>, and I met her through a friend who works for the <span class="country">United States</span>. </sentence><sentence id="633">Annie Core. </sentence><sentence id="634">And she had met her...she works now as a representative for the Polish people that work in the <span class="building">Embassy</span>. </sentence><sentence id="635">She met...through her I met this Polish lady. </sentence><sentence id="636">She said, I lived near <span class="building">Jeravia 32</span> and I know where that <span class="building">house</span> is. </sentence><sentence id="637">It was the funniest part, you know, after all those years. </sentence><sentence id="638">Anyway, when I went to <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span> that <span class="building">house</span> is still there, but it was demolished partially, 32 and I lived in an <span class="interior space">attic</span> there with that family. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="650">Q: While you were there, since this was when <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span> was being...the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> was being destroyed, did you see that destruction? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="652">A: I could see the <span class="env feature">flames</span>. </sentence><sentence id="653">Yes. </sentence><sentence id="654">From the <span class="region">Irish side</span>, all you saw is flames, smoke. </sentence><sentence id="655">That's all you saw because it's very close. </sentence><sentence id="656">The <span class="dlf">streets</span> from <span class="populated place">Jeravia</span>, <span class="dlf">Unleshno</span> (ph) and <span class="dlf">Zamenhova</span> its now too, too far. </sentence><sentence id="657">So I could see what happened. </sentence><sentence id="658">When I went there, but then I was hiding and I couldn't get out anymore. </sentence><sentence id="659">I was always hiding in that...in that...on that <span class="interior space">attic</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="668">Q: Can we...before we moved into the hiding, I would like to take you back into <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span> before you leave. </sentence><sentence id="669">You are...when you were in <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span>, you were describing the terrible conditions and the difficulty. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="672">A: Sickness, typhus. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="674">Q: Where you aware at that point of any resistance being formed? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="676">A: Yes. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="678">Q: Tell me about that. </sentence><sentence id="679">What did you know? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="682">A: All I knew that there is a resistance and they are fighting in the <span class="env feature">woods</span>. </sentence><sentence id="683">There is a song which I don't have. </sentence><sentence id="684">It was in Jewish, that song, about the fighters the resistance fighters. </sentence><sentence id="685">I am sure somebody must have it. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="690">Q: The song is well known and that is fine. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="692">A: Right. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="694">Q: So you knew about them. </sentence><sentence id="695">Did you know about any resistance being organized in the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> itself. </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="696">Q: No. </sentence><sentence id="697">No. </sentence><sentence id="698">Had no idea. </sentence><sentence id="699">You know, we were so involved in each other in the daily routine which was no routine. </sentence><sentence id="700">It just happened. </sentence><sentence id="701">From hour to hour we knew that an end was coming, we just didn't know when. </sentence><sentence id="702">O: What was the Jewish community leadership doing at that time? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="710">Did you know? </sentence><sentence id="711">Did you have any sense of a <span class="building">community organization</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="712">A: No. </sentence><sentence id="713">I did not know any. </sentence><sentence id="714">Not at all. </sentence><sentence id="715">But I knew about the resistance group, and I knew that they are around <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span>...in and around <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span>, but I had no idea of any other things. </sentence><sentence id="716">But the conditions were terrible since we didn't have enough food, especially enough water, typhus came around, and when the Germans took us out, you know, everybody was emaciated already, and that's why my parents got killed in front of me. </sentence><sentence id="717">They looked so bad that they thought, "Well, they're no good for us anymore." </sentence><sentence id="718">And lots of other people...and they just boom, boom, boom, and everybody went. </sentence><sentence id="719">And, as I said my two sisters were taken to <span class="populated place">concentration camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="720">They were put on a...on a <span class="spatial object">wagon</span> on the <span class="spatial object">trucks</span> and Alla and I...1 was not with my sisters. </sentence><sentence id="721">I couldn't even be with them because I was older and they thought that I looked good enough to work, and they were the younger and with children and the children were taken away and evidently to <span class="populated place">camp</span> right away. </sentence><sentence id="722">So that's how it was. </sentence><sentence id="723">When I was in <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span>, this was all in 1941, beginning of 1941...March. </sentence><sentence id="724">And when I was hiding out, a few weeks was fine. </sentence><sentence id="725">I thought, "Well, we will see what happens." </sentence><sentence id="726">But one day they came into me to the <span class="interior space">attic</span>...not only that...at the <span class="interior space">attic</span>, I contracted whooping cough. </sentence><sentence id="727">You know what whopping cough is, and they got scared to death because with having the whooping cough, you cannot sit still. </sentence><sentence id="728">When somebody comes around, and hear I hark, hark, hark, they were afraid, and they thought they cannot keep me any longer. </sentence><sentence id="729">Okay? </sentence><sentence id="730">I have to find a way what to do. </sentence><sentence id="731">At that time, I was let go. </sentence><sentence id="732">At that time I had 20 dollar gold piece...a 20 dollar gold piece cause all the other jewelry and things, I already...I didn't have it anymore. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="754">Q: Why? </sentence><sentence id="755">What did you do with it? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="758">A: Okay. </sentence><sentence id="759">What I did is when I tried to get the false papers I had to pay with something. </sentence><sentence id="760">Okay. </sentence><sentence id="761">And when I let...when they let me go, I had a 20 dollar gold piece, and I just didn't 37 know where to go. </sentence><sentence id="762">So when they let me go on the <span class="dlf">street</span>, some 2 Germans...SS men I imagine...approached me, and they said, "Who are you? </sentence><sentence id="763">What are you doing here?" </sentence><sentence id="764">Well, they finally find out that I am Jewish, you know, by interrogating me, and I knew well, lam caught anyway and I don't care what happens to me. </sentence><sentence id="765">But I had the 20 dollar gold piece and I told to the guys I said...I said to them, "Well, if you let me go, I have something that I could give you." </sentence><sentence id="766">And they said, "What." </sentence><sentence id="767">I said, I have a 20 dollar gold piece." </sentence><sentence id="768">Well, they took the gold piece and let me go. </sentence><sentence id="769">But L...I still had no place to go. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="782">Q: Did you still have false papers on you? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="784">A: And still false papers on me, yes. </sentence><sentence id="785">Where do I go from there? </sentence><sentence id="786">That was the question. </sentence><sentence id="787">And it was almost curfew hour. </sentence><sentence id="788">The curfew was 9:00. </sentence><sentence id="789">Well, I wondered. </sentence><sentence id="790">I just wondered and I thought it doesn't matter to me if 1 get caught. </sentence><sentence id="791">If I get caught, I get caught; if I don't, I don't. </sentence><sentence id="792">Life was cheap. </sentence><sentence id="793">And I wandered, I wandered until the <span class="env feature">Wisla</span>, <span class="env feature">River Wisla</span> [NB: the <span class="env feature">Vistula</span>], and I sat there and I was contemplating ... should I...should I jump into the <span class="env feature">river</span> and finish up with myself. </sentence><sentence id="794">I didn't know how to swim. </sentence><sentence id="795">But I thought suicide would be the best thing. </sentence><sentence id="796">I wouldn't fall into German hands. </sentence><sentence id="797">I would do it myself. </sentence><sentence id="798">And along came from nowhere this man, Jan Majetki, and he said, "You know, it's almost curfew hour. </sentence><sentence id="799">What are you doing here?" </sentence><sentence id="800">And he started to interrogate me. </sentence><sentence id="801">Who are you? </sentence><sentence id="802">Where are you coming from? </sentence><sentence id="803">Well, he realized that I am Jewish and I couldn't hide anymore and I told him who I am. </sentence><sentence id="804">I showed him my false papers, that I had these 3 f false papers that I acquired with my money and some jewelry but I had no to go. </sentence><sentence id="805">He said, "Well, I am the Director of the <span class="populated place">Polish Camp</span>." </sentence><sentence id="806">It was like a <span class="populated place">camp</span> for the Poles that escaped from the German rules. </sentence><sentence id="807">I can take you in there for a little while. </sentence><sentence id="808">I said, "Fine." </sentence><sentence id="809">So he took me in there, and I think the <span class="dlf">street</span> was <span class="dlf">Ulitza Sfientoieskaia</span> (ph) . </sentence><sentence id="810">And he said I can give you a little <span class="interior space">room</span> and you can stay there, but not for long because we are being, uh, the Germans know 5~ that we keep Jews there and they are after us every so often. </sentence><sentence id="811">So I said, "Well, whatever happens happens. </sentence><sentence id="812">If you can take me now, fine. </sentence><sentence id="813">I'll go with you." </sentence><sentence id="814">And I went with him. </sentence><sentence id="815">That's how I got to this <span class="building">Polish house</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="849">Q: Can you describe the <span class="building">house</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="851">A: This must have been...well, it was March. </sentence><sentence id="852">It must have been around the beginning of April or something like that because in June, I was...to <span class="country">Germany</span>. </sentence><sentence id="853">Well, I stayed there until such time but every so often Germans came there and really tried to find whether they are Jews. </sentence><sentence id="854">But at one time it was so hot that he said, "Maria, I cannot keep you any longer. </sentence><sentence id="855">We have to part." </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="861">Q: What was the <span class="building">house</span> like? </sentence><sentence id="862">That is, where there many people there? </sentence><sentence id="863">Who was hiding there"? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="867">A: Only Poles. </sentence><sentence id="868">Most of the Poles and a few Jews which I didn't meet, but mostly Poles and it was a <span class="building">house</span>, just a plain <span class="building">house</span>, uh, they had some <span class="interior space">rooms</span>. </sentence><sentence id="869">It was also very crowded. </sentence><sentence id="870">But I got special treatment from him for some reason or other. </sentence><sentence id="871">I don't know why. </sentence><sentence id="872">But I realized later why because he corresponded with me. </sentence><sentence id="873">He really liked me. </sentence><sentence id="874">Anyway, I got that <span class="interior space">room</span>, No. </sentence><sentence id="875">6, and I stayed there until it was so hot that he couldn't keep me anymore. </sentence><sentence id="876">He really had to...to get rid of all the Jews. </sentence><sentence id="877">I was the last one and he parted with me, and we kissed and he gave me that medal when he parted with me. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="889">Q: Will you show us the medal please and then tell us what it is. </sentence><sentence id="890">You have it on. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="893">A: Yes. </sentence><sentence id="894">I didn't know that. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="897">Q: Let's take it out and show it to the camera. </sentence><sentence id="898">We'll show it again later. </sentence><sentence id="899">And that is the medal. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="903">That is the holiest medal in <span class="country">Poland</span>. </sentence><sentence id="904"><span class="building">Maka Holska Czestohovska</span>. </sentence><sentence id="905">They were a few holy ladies, but the lady from <span class="populated place">Jan Batski</span>, was the holiest of all. </sentence><sentence id="906">And this is the medal that he gave me when we parted and this is only, you know, the...the chain is not there anymore, but he kept it for me. </sentence><sentence id="907">He got this one from his brother who was a priest who also perished in the same <span class="populated place">camp</span> where my sisters perished. </sentence><sentence id="908">This Jan Majeski for awhile was working in the underground, in the <span class="interior space">Polish underground</span> for Poles, but then after the war he organized that <span class="populated place">camp</span> for Poles that escaped from. .. </sentence><sentence id="909">Okay? </sentence><sentence id="910">And this is the medal that I kept. </sentence><sentence id="911">And he told me to promise him that I will keep that medal with me all the time and this will keep me alive. </sentence><sentence id="912">And needless to say, I really honestly kept that medal with me all the time until I gave it away to the <span class="building">Holocaust Museum</span>. </sentence><sentence id="913">I kept it always with me. </sentence><sentence id="914">Not that I believed in it, but I promised him that I will keep it with me, and I did. </sentence><sentence id="915">Every night in <span class="country">Germany</span> I looked at that medal and I thought how...how safe I am because I don't know with that medal or whatever, but I am safe, alive. </sentence><sentence id="916">Better safe I don't know, but alive. </sentence><sentence id="917">Anyway that was the time...when we parted, and he said we had to part, he took us all...not only me but a lot of other Poles to a <span class="building">church</span>, and he said from there on, everybody is on their own, but he knew there is going to be a raid by the Germans to take the people to work the Germans. </sentence><sentence id="918">Well, needless to say, there was a raid and we were all taken to <span class="country">Germany</span> and we were taken in <span class="spatial object">cattle trains</span>...by <span class="spatial object">cattle trains</span> to German, to <span class="populated place">Berlin</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="936">Q: Describe the trip. </sentence><sentence id="937">Would you please? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="940">A: The trip was terrible. </sentence><sentence id="941">We were all crowded and, of course, I would never say that I am Jewish. </sentence><sentence id="942">Alright? </sentence><sentence id="943">We were all Poles. </sentence><sentence id="944">I am sure there were a lot of Jews...which I was afraid to talk to anybody. </sentence><sentence id="945">I kept to myself. </sentence><sentence id="946">But then on the way to <span class="populated place">Berlin</span>, they asked, "Who speaks German?" </sentence><sentence id="947">And I y) /) volunteered, and I said I speak German, I speak Hoch Deutch , not Plat Deutch (ph). </sentence><sentence id="948"><span class="populated place">Hoch Deutch</span> is the cultivated German. </sentence><sentence id="949">Plat Deutch, I didn't know. </sentence><sentence id="950">As such, I was chosen as the <span class="spatial object">fuhrer</span>, what is it? </sentence><sentence id="951">Not the manager, but the manager of the group to go to <span class="country">Germany</span>, because I spoke German and the SS men, they spoke German. </sentence><sentence id="952">So they communicated with me. </sentence><sentence id="953">When they brought us all to German...to <span class="populated place">Berlin</span>, I was told because I was the fuhrer, the manager, the leader. </sentence><sentence id="954">Fuhrer is the leader. </sentence><sentence id="955">I will have a choice of where I wanted to go to work tin <span class="country">Germany</span> which I thought was a good idea. </sentence><sentence id="956">Okay? </sentence><sentence id="957">We came to <span class="populated place">Berlin</span>. </sentence><sentence id="958">I don't even remember how it looked, but it was a mass of people, not only our group but lots of people, lots of people and lots of mostly Poles. </sentence><sentence id="959">And they said to me, "You have a choice to go either on a <span class="dlf">farm</span> to an ammunition fabric or to <span class="building">hotels</span>. </sentence><sentence id="960">I thought for myself to be safer it would be the best thing to go on a <span class="dlf">farm</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="982">Q: Why? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="984">A: Because I knew it'll be a lot hard work that I won't meet so many Poles. </sentence><sentence id="985">I was afraid to meet Poles. </sentence><sentence id="986">That was the idea. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="990">Q: And you still had the false papers? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="992">A: I still had my false papers as a Christian girl. </sentence><sentence id="993">Sure. </sentence><sentence id="994">As Maria Xowalcik. </sentence><sentence id="995">The middle name was Jadwiga. </sentence><sentence id="996">As such, I came to <span class="country">Germany</span> as Maria Kowalcik. </sentence><sentence id="997">And I thought for my own sake, I probably would be safer to be away from everybody. </sentence><sentence id="998">And I thought on a <span class="dlf">farm</span>, Poles would probably not likely go to a <span class="dlf">farm</span>. </sentence><sentence id="999">They might want to go a <span class="building">hotel</span>, to some <span class="building">offices</span>, to any other place, but I thought for myself, I would rather go to a <span class="dlf">farm</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1000">First of all, I was emaciated. </sentence><sentence id="1001">I was about 80, 90 pounds skin and bones when I came to <span class="country">Germany</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1002">Skin and bone. </sentence><sentence id="1003">And as such I came to <span class="country">Germany</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1004">They told me where they are going to bring me, to <span class="populated place">Krushart</span>, near <span class="populated place">Oslingen</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1005">It is a small <span class="dlf">farm</span> that the man that owns the <span class="dlf">farm</span> is paralyzed but he has a son-in-law by the name of Karl Beck and a daughter. </sentence><sentence id="1006">She was just married to this Mr. Beck. </sentence><sentence id="1007">And I was brought to <span class="populated place">Krunhart</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1008">That's how I came to <span class="country">Germany</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1009">Okay? </sentence><sentence id="1010">I was a city girl. </sentence><sentence id="1011">I never knew what work means because at <span class="building">home</span> we were wealthy. </sentence><sentence id="1012">We had maids, and we had everything. </sentence><sentence id="1013">I never even knew how to boil a glass of water. </sentence><sentence id="1014">Very spoiled...very...really very well taken care of, and I had no idea what a <span class="dlf">farm</span> means...work on a <span class="dlf">farm</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1015">Anyway, but I adapted and I adjusted very well. </sentence><sentence id="1016">I knew that that's the way it is. </sentence><sentence id="1017">That's the way it's going to be. </sentence><sentence id="1018">I better make the y ?- </sentence><sentence id="1019">4S best of that. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1049">Q: Describe the <span class="dlf">farm</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1050">Would you please? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1053">A: Okay. </sentence><sentence id="1054">Was a very small <span class="dlf">farm</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1055">They had an Uncle Karl. </sentence><sentence id="1056">I forget his last name. </sentence><sentence id="1057">And Louise and Mr. Beck, and Mr. Sharf and myself. </sentence><sentence id="1058">A very small <span class="dlf">farm</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1059">We had about 6 cows. </sentence><sentence id="1060">We had chickens and pigs and all sorts of animals around the <span class="dlf">farm</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1061">Of course, I had to take care of everything. </sentence><sentence id="1062">I had no idea how to milk cows, but when I came there, the nice thing was when I came to the <span class="dlf">farm</span>, it was...it was June 16th or June 21. </sentence><sentence id="1063">I don't remember exactly. </sentence><sentence id="1064">I think it was June 21. </sentence><sentence id="1065">It was a nasty day; a rainy, nasty cold day and I had nothing with me, just what [had on, old clothes and my emaciated. </sentence><sentence id="1066">Just skin and bones. </sentence><sentence id="1067">But I had my presence always. </sentence><sentence id="1068">On a <span class="dlf">farm</span>, there is lots to eat. </sentence><sentence id="1069">I better be careful eating, not to eat everything right away. </sentence><sentence id="1070">I had the presence of mind to be careful of eating not to get sick. </sentence><sentence id="1071">So the first thing I came there, it was cold and the woman, Mrs. Louisa Beck, she looked like a very terribly harsh woman, talk, big, but a real German woman, you know. </sentence><sentence id="1072">And I thought oh, oh, this is not the place I should have gone. </sentence><sentence id="1073">But she was very kind to me, very kind to me. </sentence><sentence id="1074">Really motherly almost. </sentence><sentence id="1075">She showed me to a <span class="interior space">room</span> where it would be and it was very nice <span class="interior space">room</span>, a very small <span class="interior space">room</span> with just a <span class="spatial object">bed</span> and a <span class="spatial object">bureau</span> and me. </sentence><sentence id="1076">But it was very nice. </sentence><sentence id="1077">The nicest part of it was when I went to <span class="spatial object">bed</span>...you know we had <span class="spatial object">feather beds</span> in <span class="country">Germany</span>...when I went to <span class="spatial object">bed</span>, the <span class="spatial object">bed</span> was warm. </sentence><sentence id="1078">And I was wondering what happened. </sentence><sentence id="1079">She had a warm bottle to warm up the <span class="spatial object">bed</span>, and I thought then she can't be that bad. </sentence><sentence id="1080">If she did that, she must have heart. </sentence><sentence id="1081">Of course, I was Polish. </sentence><sentence id="1082">She didn't know that I was Jewish. </sentence><sentence id="1083">So then I thought maybe life won't be so bad. </sentence><sentence id="1084">Anyway, that was the experience and she gave me milk and ham and bread, but I didn't eat any. </sentence><sentence id="1085">I just had some milk and some bread and butter. </sentence><sentence id="1086">I was afraid to eat really, because I was hungry, emaciated and I thought...I had the presence of mind not to eat everything right away but just go slowly about it until I get used to food again. </sentence><sentence id="1087">So then it really started. </sentence><sentence id="1088">The next morning she tried to introduce me to everybody. </sentence><sentence id="1089">She had a brother by the name Ernst who fought in the army and he was in <span class="country">Russia</span> then. </sentence><sentence id="1090">He had a little boy by the name of Fritz. </sentence><sentence id="1091">He was then a baby about 2 or 3 months old, and she told me I had to take care of the baby which I was glad. </sentence><sentence id="1092">And some other chores she told me that I had to do in the beginning which was fine. </sentence><sentence id="1093">It wasn't too much, but then they got me into the real nitty gritty, the real farm work. </sentence><sentence id="1094">She showed me how to milk cows. </sentence><sentence id="1095">That was the worst part. </sentence><sentence id="1096">Well, to milk the cows I remember for about a month my fingers were like this. </sentence><sentence id="1097">I could not straighten them out. </sentence><sentence id="1098">You had to use force to use what do you call the (ph), and my fingers were like this for about 2 to 3 months. </sentence><sentence id="1099">I just couldn't straighten them out. </sentence><sentence id="1100">But then slowly I knew how to do it, and it was...was fun. </sentence><sentence id="1101">And I used to drink the milk directly from the cows. </sentence><sentence id="1102">I milked them. </sentence><sentence id="1103">I drank the milk. </sentence><sentence id="1104">Anyway, I got very fat as you saw. </sentence><sentence id="1105">After awhile, I was there about 2 months, I got very fat. </sentence><sentence id="1106">I had at that time long hair and I braided them and put them up here as you see will see on the pictures. </sentence><sentence id="1107">And, uh, then she taught me really what I had to do and it was hard work taking care of all the animals and get up in the morning about 5:30, go at night about 12:00 to <span class="spatial object">bed</span> and feed all the animals, take care of the chickens, of the ...of the pigs, whatever we had on the <span class="dlf">farm</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1108">And also I had to learn how to mow <span class="env feature">grass</span> and the...what </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1165">Q: Oh, you have to cut the cut these from the <span class="env feature">wheat</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1167">A: Yes, what do you call the grain. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1169">Q: You cut the grain with the... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1171">A: Not with a ...(ph), but with a...the ...(ph) is too small. </sentence><sentence id="1172">What do you call it? </sentence><sentence id="1173">It was like this and a handle. </sentence><sentence id="1174">I can't think of the name. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1179">Q: Sifted it through? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1181">A: Not sifted. </sentence><sentence id="1182">No, you had to cut it. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1185">Q: But you cut it with some kind of <span class="spatial object">machine</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1187">A: Yes and it wasn't a <span class="spatial object">machine</span>...was hand cut. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1189">Q: Okay. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1191">A: It was a big handle. </sentence><sentence id="1192"><span class="dlf">t</span> </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1195">Q: I don't know. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1197">A: Not a <span class="spatial object">sickle</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1198">It was bigger than a <span class="spatial object">sickle</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1201">Q: We'll find the word later. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1203">A: I can't think of the name. </sentence><sentence id="1204">I know the name, but I can't think of it this minute. </sentence><sentence id="1205">And we cut this <span class="building">mill</span> in bundles. </sentence><sentence id="1206">The wheat....the wheat...we cut the wheat and it had to be put in bundles and then the bundles were loaded on...on the...what do you call that...<span class="spatial object">wagons</span> with horses, and we had to bring it to the <span class="dlf">farm</span> and store it. </sentence><sentence id="1207">And then we had to...what do you call this when you get the grains out, you beat it. </sentence><sentence id="1208">What do you call that? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1215">Q: You beat it with sticks. </sentence><sentence id="1216">I don't know. </sentence><sentence id="1217">I am not a farm person. </sentence><sentence id="1218">And to separate the chaff... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1223">A: To separate the <span class="env feature">wheat</span>, yes. </sentence><sentence id="1224">That's how we did it, and then it was sifted. </sentence><sentence id="1225">So that's how we got the grains...the grains out. </sentence><sentence id="1226">I can't think of the name...the English name. </sentence><sentence id="1227">I knew it. </sentence><sentence id="1228">I think I wrote it my essay, but I can't think of the name now. </sentence><sentence id="1229">Anyway, that's how we did it. </sentence><sentence id="1230">And we had to mow <span class="env feature">grass</span> for the cows for the winter to store hay for the winter and all that. </sentence><sentence id="1231">All that had to be done. </sentence><sentence id="1232">We had chickens. </sentence><sentence id="1233">I had to gather the <span class="spatial object">eggs</span> and all that. </sentence><sentence id="1234">It was a lot of work and I did most of the work because Louise, Mr. Beck was working in the <span class="building">ammunition factory</span> during the day. </sentence><sentence id="1235">He came only <span class="building">home</span> at night. </sentence><sentence id="1236">Mr. ...the owner was paralyzed. </sentence><sentence id="1237">He couldn't do anything. </sentence><sentence id="1238">Louise had to take his daughter, and Mr. Beck's wife had to take care </sentence></p><p><sentence id="1239"> of the son, so I did mostly of the work, but Saturdays there came an uncle of theirs, Mr. </sentence></p><p><sentence id="1240">Warl. </sentence><sentence id="1241">He helped us out </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1242">Q: Okay. </sentence><sentence id="1243">Let's hold it we need to change the tape and then we'll come back. </sentence><sentence id="1244">Okay Bonnie. </sentence></p><p><sentence id="1245"> Tape #2 </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1246">A: The rest I have to do it here. </sentence><sentence id="1247">I have to go to the <span class="interior space">bedroom</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1248">Just take care of him like a baby. </sentence><sentence id="1249">I have to clean him up. </sentence><sentence id="1250">I have a <span class="spatial object">commode</span> in the <span class="interior space">bathroom</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1251">I have a <span class="spatial object">commode</span> in the <span class="interior space">living room</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1252">I have a <span class="spatial object">commode</span> in the <span class="interior space">kitchen</span> so I don't have to drag all those things. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1260">Q: Let's pick it back up. </sentence><sentence id="1261">We are going back to ... and you have been doing farm work. </sentence><sentence id="1262">Tell me... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="1266">you started to me about the uncle who comes in on Saturday. </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1267">A: The uncle who came in on Saturday helped us out because I could do...most of the work was really on and on Mr. Beck and both of us could not handle all of it. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1269">Q: How big was the <span class="dlf">farm</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1271">A: I don't know. </sentence><sentence id="1272">It was a very small <span class="dlf">farm</span>...really very small <span class="dlf">farm</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1273">Pour of us could take care of it, but we all had to work hard. </sentence><sentence id="1274">As I said her husband was <span class="building">home</span> only in the evening. </sentence><sentence id="1275">He left in the morning and came hone about 8:00 at night from the <span class="building">factory</span>...from the <span class="building">ammunition factory</span> there he worked for the SS. </sentence><sentence id="1276">And in the evening there wasn't much to do, but Sundays he helped us out. </sentence><sentence id="1277">Sundays we worked very...I worked most of the day cause they went to <span class="building">church</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1278">First of all, I had to...I was Catholic... had to change my religion. </sentence><sentence id="1279">They were Seven Day Adventists and they sort of hinted to se to change the religious. </sentence><sentence id="1280">I did change. </sentence><sentence id="1281">I thought what the heck, it doesn't matter to me. </sentence><sentence id="1282">So I was Protestant, you know, I went with them to <span class="building">church</span> every Sunday and prayed with him or whatever it was, and there were meetings in the <span class="building">house</span>, also, once a week which Mr. ...that owner who was paralyzed. </sentence><sentence id="1283">He presided. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1297">Q: Let's pick it up and go back. </sentence><sentence id="1298">You were posing as a Catholic Where had you learned your Catholicism to go to <span class="building">Church</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1301">A: I didn't. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1303">Q: You didn't? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1305">A: I didn't because I never went to <span class="building">church</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1306">I came to <span class="country">Germany</span> and they said, well, you will be awhile with us. </sentence><sentence id="1307">Why don't you change to our religion? </sentence><sentence id="1308">And I know so little about Catholicism and the girls that were there...there were other Poles in the <span class="populated place">village</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1309">They were all Christians...really Poles. </sentence><sentence id="1310">And I was scared to death. </sentence><sentence id="1311">That's how they found out...they didn't know "til they found out. </sentence><sentence id="1312">They suspected that I was Jewish. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1321">Q: How did they suspect? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1323">A: Some other girls that were on other fare...they suspected, and I was scared to death. </sentence><sentence id="1324">But we were very good friends because when they were talking about Catholicism or about the <span class="building">church</span>, I knew very little about it. </sentence><sentence id="1325">And that's...I think they got the idea that L...that there is not quite right. </sentence><sentence id="1326">And, uh, of course, I never said anything to them. </sentence><sentence id="1327">I remained as Catholic, but I thought it would be a good idea if 1 changed to their religion. </sentence><sentence id="1328">And I did change. </sentence><sentence id="1329">And I went with them every Sunday to <span class="building">church</span>, and I did all the things that they did. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1338">Q: Did you have to go through conversion? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1340">A: No. </sentence><sentence id="1341">Nothing. </sentence><sentence id="1342">Because Mr.... the President of that union...of that Seven Day Adventists, whatever it was. </sentence><sentence id="1343">And everything was in his <span class="building">house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1344">As a matter of fact, sometimes the ceremonies were in his <span class="building">house</span> because he could not go to <span class="building">church</span> and his daughter played the...not the <span class="spatial object">piano</span>...what is the other thingv? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1350">Q: The <span class="spatial object">organ</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1352">A: The <span class="spatial object">organ</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1353">As a matter of fact, she started teaching the <span class="spatial object">organ</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1354">And she played the <span class="spatial object">organ</span> and when the meetings were there, we went into that <span class="interior space">room</span> and we had the meetings there. </sentence><sentence id="1355">So I was very comfortable there instead of going to the <span class="building">Catholic Church</span>, which I know nothing about. </sentence><sentence id="1356">I thought it's a good idea that I did. </sentence><sentence id="1357">And I was very glad that I did change. </sentence><sentence id="1358">And they hinted to me...not that they almost like forced me to it...but I thought it was a good idea and I did it, and I was very glad that I did it because this way I did have to go with the Poles. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1366">Q: And you also didn't have to pretend. </sentence><sentence id="1367">You knew a great deal about the Seventh Day Adventists. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1370">A: Exactly. </sentence><sentence id="1371">Yes. </sentence><sentence id="1372">And the whole week I worked very hard. </sentence><sentence id="1373">We had no live to get together. </sentence><sentence id="1374">Only Sundays. </sentence><sentence id="1375">And Sundays I went to <span class="building">church</span> so I had very little connections with the Polish girls that were there. </sentence><sentence id="1376">There were two girls...Polish girls...of which I have pictures. </sentence><sentence id="1377">But we were very good friends and every body worked very hard. </sentence><sentence id="1378">You really didn't have much time. </sentence><sentence id="1379">One of the girls was very badly treated on her far. </sentence><sentence id="1380">She couldn't eat or sleep in the <span class="building">house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1381">She had to sleep elsewhere near the <span class="building">stables</span>, you know. </sentence><sentence id="1382">But I was very lucky. </sentence><sentence id="1383">I really had nice people. </sentence><sentence id="1384">But, of course, knowing that I aw Christian, you now...but they were kind to me, really kind. </sentence><sentence id="1385">I had no complaints about that. </sentence><sentence id="1386">So I was there, I think it was about 2-1/2 years...or 2 years when the liberation care in 1945. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1404">Q: Let's not get there yet. </sentence><sentence id="1405">Zhen you were talking earlier, you talked about having to wear your 3 and you were taken to <span class="building">court</span> one day about that. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1408">A: Okay. </sentence><sentence id="1409">I was once...I became sick. </sentence><sentence id="1410">Okay? </sentence><sentence id="1411">And before the war, I had gall stone troubles, but then during the war somehow because of the meager diet and all that, I had no problems. </sentence><sentence id="1412">But all of a sudden when I started to eat and eat well...probably fatty things. </sentence><sentence id="1413">You know, butter of Whatever they have on the <span class="dlf">farm</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1414">You know we had pork. </sentence><sentence id="1415">We did our own cold cuts and all that. </sentence><sentence id="1416">And J ate all that and I like it and it was good. </sentence><sentence id="1417">I got fat on it. </sentence><sentence id="1418">And I felt fine, but all of a sudden I took ill. </sentence><sentence id="1419">And evidently that...the gall stones occurred again because of all the fat, and the butter and the Bilk, I couldn't digest that very well and I got sick. </sentence><sentence id="1420">So I had to go to the <span class="building">doctor</span> and I just didn't get...I forgot. </sentence><sentence id="1421">And several times also when I went to see the Polish girls, we didn't always wear the E. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1436">Q: You had to wear your P. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1438">A: All the time. </sentence><sentence id="1439">All the time. </sentence><sentence id="1440">But neither one of us wore it all the time. </sentence><sentence id="1441">Because it was a small <span class="populated place">village</span>, but there was one police guy that lived in the <span class="populated place">village</span> that had very bod...he didn't care very much for Dr. Hard and he sort of took it out on me. </sentence><sentence id="1442">One time when I went out to wait for the <span class="spatial object">bus</span> to get to the doctor and he caught me without the P and needless to say, he really took advantage of me. </sentence><sentence id="1443">He really beat me up well. </sentence><sentence id="1444">I went back <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1445">I didn't go to the <span class="building">doctor</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1446">I went back hone and I cried myself sick and I was very upset about it and talked to his. </sentence><sentence id="1447">He said, "Why did you do that to her? </sentence><sentence id="1448">She's such a good worker...and all that." </sentence><sentence id="1449">Well, he said, "She has to wear a P anyway. </sentence><sentence id="1450">I went to the doctor without the P at the time, and I went back to crying and I put the P back and I went to the doctor. </sentence><sentence id="1451">And he...when he beat me up..-he also put in a...he sued me. </sentence><sentence id="1452">He took me to the <span class="building">court</span> that I as a Christian girl and I didn't wear the P. He took me to the <span class="building">court</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1453">And you know, there is in minority, if 1 have the original from the <span class="building">court</span>...and I told the Judge the truth that I forgot the P but I got an attack of gall bladder and I had to rush to the doctor and in my rushing I forgot the P and went without it. </sentence><sentence id="1454">And, I forgot his name...the policeman's name, I don't remember anymore...and he beat me up. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1472">Q: Let's stay... You are telling the <span class="building">court</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1474">A: The <span class="building">court</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1475">What had happened. </sentence><sentence id="1476">And the <span class="building">court</span> believed me but the guy, the policeman was there...he said it was not true what I as saying and that I also said that he said...the policeman said when I got to <span class="building">court</span> I'll probably have to pay some money as I punishment and he...the policeman said to me...said to the <span class="building">court</span> that I said money doesn't mean anything to me...German money doesn't mean anything to me. </sentence><sentence id="1477">It was a lie...and I said that to the <span class="building">court</span>...the Judge. </sentence><sentence id="1478">The Judge really believed me what I said, and he dismissed the policeman and, uh, however, they punished me with. .. </sentence><sentence id="1479">But I told the Judge that I don't have any money. </sentence><sentence id="1480">I was supposed to get paid 20...a month, but I never got paid. </sentence><sentence id="1481">And I told the Judge I don't have any money, and he can do whatever he wants to with me. </sentence><sentence id="1482">If he wants to put me to <span class="building">jail</span>, let him put me to <span class="building">jail</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1483">But the Judge was very, very nice to me. </sentence><sentence id="1484">He just gave me the punishment and he said whichever way I can pay I'll pay. </sentence><sentence id="1485">And I brought the judgment back to Mr. Sharo and Mr. Sharp intervened and they made it to 15...so Mr. Sharv paid 15... I didn't pay anything. </sentence><sentence id="1486">And the receipt is there. </sentence><sentence id="1487">I have the original receipt. </sentence><sentence id="1488">But the Judge was so nice to me. </sentence><sentence id="1489">He was so sympathetic to me. </sentence><sentence id="1490">What he did, he asked me to be the translator for the Poles when they come to <span class="building">Court</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1491">They don't know how to speak German. </sentence><sentence id="1492">Would I be translating for them? </sentence><sentence id="1493">At the end it was a good thing for me. </sentence><sentence id="1494">I helped the judge with the Poles. </sentence><sentence id="1495">I translated from Polish into German. </sentence><sentence id="1496">So, the judge was very, very nice with me. </sentence><sentence id="1497">He believed what I said and he accepted my testimony rather than the policeman's. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1522">Q: Did you stay working on the <span class="dlf">farm</span> also while you did translations for the judge? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1524">A: Yes. </sentence><sentence id="1525">Yes. </sentence><sentence id="1526">I told them that whenever the judge wants me I would have to go and they were very pleased that I did that. </sentence><sentence id="1527">And so...and I was pleased too. </sentence><sentence id="1528">It got me away from the <span class="dlf">farm</span>, and you know, a little to do...a little bit of something else. </sentence><sentence id="1529">So that was...the end was pretty good in spite of everything, but I had a lot of scare cause I thought, God knows what will happen now. </sentence><sentence id="1530">If they put me to <span class="building">jail</span>, they'll really find out who I was. </sentence><sentence id="1531">You know, they'll start interrogating me and all that, and I was scared to death, but it ended well, really for me. </sentence><sentence id="1532">It ended very well. </sentence><sentence id="1533">So that's how it was in the <span class="building">court</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1534">But I had a few frightening days and sleepless nights and all that. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1547">Q: What happened after the <span class="building">business court</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1549">A: After I had been to <span class="building">court</span>? </sentence><sentence id="1550">Well, I came back to the <span class="dlf">farm</span> and everything was fine. </sentence><sentence id="1551">And that policeman never bothered me again. </sentence><sentence id="1552">Never bothered me again! </sentence><sentence id="1553">And Mr. Sharb was very upset about it, you know, because he knows the guy and he says he shouldn't have done it to him...not only to me, but to him...that I was working for him and I was very good and never any problems with me. </sentence><sentence id="1554">Why did he do that? </sentence><sentence id="1555">Ho was just nasty...a very nasty man. </sentence><sentence id="1556">He was very nasty to the other Polish girls. </sentence><sentence id="1557">He really was. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1567">Q: What year did all this happen with the <span class="building">court</span> and everything? </sentence><sentence id="1568">What year did this happen? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="1571">Where are we in this? </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1572">A: This must have been in 1942 or 1943. </sentence><sentence id="1573">Either year, I don't remember. </sentence><sentence id="1574">It must have been 1942 or 1943...beginning of 1943. </sentence><sentence id="1575">I don't remember. </sentence><sentence id="1576">I have it written down, but I don't remember the time. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1582">Q: How long did you stay on the <span class="dlf">farm</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1584">A: I stayed on the <span class="dlf">farm</span> until liberation...Until 45. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1586">Q: OK. </sentence><sentence id="1587">Did anything else happen before liberation? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1590">A: No, I was just working and, uh, nothing special happened. </sentence><sentence id="1591">I just feverishly read the <span class="spatial object">newspapers</span>; you know to see what was going on. </sentence><sentence id="1592">Because they really did not know...this farmer did not know... think people from the <span class="populated place">village</span> knew what was really going on with the Jews. </sentence><sentence id="1593">They really honestly did not know. </sentence><sentence id="1594">Everything was kept in such a way that most of the people were not aware of it. </sentence><sentence id="1595">And these people particularly had no idea what was going on. </sentence><sentence id="1596">Really! </sentence><sentence id="1597">So I stayed there...after the liberation, I stayed there about 2 more weeks longer. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1606">Q: Wait. </sentence><sentence id="1607">Don't jump quite so fast. </sentence><sentence id="1608">What happened at liberation? </sentence><sentence id="1609">How did you know there was liberation? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1614">A: At liberation, the American soldiers came into the <span class="populated place">village</span> and they asked me who are you and why are you here. </sentence><sentence id="1615">Mainly, they asked do I know whether the men, that was the SS men...some Deutschmarks in the <span class="building">house</span>, and if he has, where he has it. </sentence><sentence id="1616">OK. </sentence><sentence id="1617">And I have to tell you, I told them. </sentence><sentence id="1618">And I told them...and I told the...the Americans I told them who J as...that I am a Christian girl on false papers. </sentence><sentence id="1619">I took them aside and told them who I was...that I am really Jewish and I am looking now to get back to some place where there are Jews so that I could get to a community...a <span class="populated place">Jewish community</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1620">And they said we will try to find out for you where they are and where you can go...what you do. </sentence><sentence id="1621">But the man, Mr. Bett, was very upset when they came in and looked him and they asked me if I know if he has something. </sentence><sentence id="1622">He really didn't have any arms in the <span class="building">house</span> and I told him and he didn't. </sentence><sentence id="1623">But he got scared. </sentence><sentence id="1624">The man got scared and he gave me his uniform. </sentence><sentence id="1625">When they left...the American boys left, he said, "I am terribly afraid"...and gave me the uniforms. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1639">Q: What uniforms? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1641">A: He had this SS uniform. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1643">Q: Was he in the <span class="building">SS</span> himself? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1645">A: Yes. </sentence><sentence id="1646">And he was scared. </sentence><sentence id="1647">He was hiding the uniform when they came in and I didn't think of the uniform at this time. </sentence><sentence id="1648">They were looking mainly for arms. </sentence><sentence id="1649">When they left, he came out to me and he said, "Maria, I have the uniform and I want you to burn it. </sentence><sentence id="1650">I don't want anything left here that I was an SS man. </sentence><sentence id="1651">OK?" </sentence><sentence id="1652">He gave me the uniform and we had in the <span class="interior space">living room</span> a <span class="spatial object">pot belly stove</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1653">He gave me the uniform and he said, cut it up and burn it. </sentence><sentence id="1654">I don't want to have it in the <span class="building">house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1655">And so I did. </sentence><sentence id="1656">And let me tell you that very tongue of false that came up was like a...to me. </sentence><sentence id="1657">For all the things that I went through...that I saw my parents die, my sisters taken to the <span class="populated place">concentration camp</span> and with all the misery that I lived through and all that, I thought, why me. </sentence><sentence id="1658">Dear God, this is something that I can be thankful for...that I can do it. </sentence><sentence id="1659">And that's how the <span class="spatial object">sculpture</span> came about. </sentence><sentence id="1660">When I started <span class="building">school</span>, my teacher, Rebecca, came and said to me... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1677">Q: Can we hold it there. </sentence><sentence id="1678">Stay with this. </sentence><sentence id="1679">We'll get there. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1683">A: And I burned that uniform and he was very happy about it. </sentence><sentence id="1684">However, I found out the Americans told me in <span class="populated place">Stuttgart</span>, there is a <span class="populated place">Jewish DP camp</span> and they are forming now a <span class="populated place">community</span>, a <span class="populated place">Jewish community</span>, and where I can go and all that. </sentence><sentence id="1685">I still, however, was afraid to leave the <span class="dlf">farm</span> and I didn't tell the farmers who I was at all. </sentence><sentence id="1686">I still stayed on 2 weeks. </sentence><sentence id="1687">You know when you are under those circumstances; I was afraid what will happen if there is a <span class="building">retreat</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1688">If the Americans retreat, God forbid, and they find out who I was, you know. </sentence><sentence id="1689">So I stayed on for 2 weeks. </sentence><sentence id="1690">I didn't tell them a thing. </sentence><sentence id="1691">And after 2 weeks...in the meantime, I went to <span class="populated place">Stuttgart</span> and I found out that there is indeed a <span class="populated place">Jewish community</span> and there is form a <span class="populated place">DP camp</span>...<span class="populated place">displaced person camp</span>, and that I have a place to go now. </sentence><sentence id="1692">I know where to go. </sentence><sentence id="1693">And so I came back and I told them that I am ready to leave and who [ as. </sentence><sentence id="1694">Well, I still can see the face of these people. </sentence><sentence id="1695">Was Mr. Beck, Mr. Beck and Mr. Sharp. </sentence><sentence id="1696">They looked at me and said, Maria, it can't be. </sentence><sentence id="1697">No Jewish girl would work like that." </sentence><sentence id="1698">You know, they...they really didn't know. </sentence><sentence id="1699">They never even saw a Jew before. </sentence><sentence id="1700">They thought maybe Jews really have horns or whatever. </sentence><sentence id="1701">They said, "Cannot be! </sentence><sentence id="1702">I said, Yes, Mr. Beck, I am Jewish and I showed them the false papers then and I told then I am going to the <span class="populated place">DP camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1703">I ax going to live there, and well they were very surprised. </sentence><sentence id="1704">They said, you can live here. </sentence><sentence id="1705">You can be with us. </sentence><sentence id="1706">And...uh, they just couldn't believe it...that I as Jewish. </sentence><sentence id="1707">The first thing they said, it can't be true. </sentence><sentence id="1708">A Jew would not work like this on a <span class="dlf">farm</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1709">I really worked hard and I worked...I worked well. </sentence><sentence id="1710">I worked for me because I knew that this is it. </sentence><sentence id="1711">I have to do what I have to do. </sentence><sentence id="1712">You know!Anyway when we parted he gave me that knife. </sentence><sentence id="1713">Mr. Beck...they all kissed ne and hugged me then. </sentence><sentence id="1714">Even though... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1749">Q: Hold the knife up. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1751">A: And he gave me that knife. </sentence><sentence id="1752">And that knife I took. </sentence><sentence id="1753">This knife here. </sentence><sentence id="1754">And this is an old <span class="spatial object">knife</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1755">He belonged to the SS, you know, and he took it from his mess and gave it to me as a remembrance. </sentence><sentence id="1756">And I was really very grateful for him...for that, that he did that. </sentence><sentence id="1757">I think this was a nice gesture after all. </sentence><sentence id="1758">1 mean if he had known if I was Jewish it wouldn't be that. </sentence><sentence id="1759">But I showed his the papers and I showed his everything, and I told him everything, and they just could not believe it. </sentence><sentence id="1760">They could not believe a minute of it, but that's how we parted. </sentence><sentence id="1761">At parting, he gave me that knife. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1773">Q: Before you go on with your story, I would like to go back a minute and ask you...Mr. Beck was in the <span class="building">SS</span> during all the years you were at the <span class="dlf">farm</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1774">What did he do as part of the <span class="building">SS</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1777">A: I have no idea. </sentence><sentence id="1778">I know he worked in the... You know, everything was very secretive. </sentence><sentence id="1779">I know he worked in <span class="building">SS</span> in a...in an <span class="building">ammunition factory</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1780">OK? </sentence><sentence id="1781">He sometimes came hone...this I must tell you...case hone and he bring...drunk a little bit. </sentence><sentence id="1782">What do you say in English? </sentence><sentence id="1783">Inebriated? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1791">Q: Yes. </sentence><sentence id="1792">Inebriated. </sentence><sentence id="1793">It's drunk. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1797">A: Yes. </sentence><sentence id="1798">And those nights when he came back like that I got terribly scared because I was afraid. </sentence><sentence id="1799">You know every so often, he made advances and when he was <span class="building">home</span> not quite sober, I got scared and I didn't go to <span class="spatial object">bed</span> then. </sentence><sentence id="1800">I went to the <span class="spatial object">bed</span> until I knew he went to <span class="spatial object">bed</span> and he was asleep. </sentence><sentence id="1801">And I did some work, whatever it was to do in the <span class="interior space">kitchen</span> or whatever. </sentence><sentence id="1802">Mrs. Beck used to say to me, "Maria, why don't you go to <span class="spatial object">bed</span>?" </sentence><sentence id="1803">I said, oh, I have to do this, that and the other thing, and I made sure that he is asleep, and that is when I went to <span class="spatial object">bed</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1804">I really was afraid; you know that he might assault me in some way. </sentence><sentence id="1805">Because he...you know, he felt sometime like that, especially when he came back. </sentence><sentence id="1806">You know, there was a young Polish girl who was older than he was and she was a hefty woman, talk and hefty as you will see on the picture, and he said this is a nice morsel, you know. </sentence><sentence id="1807">And I really got seared, and rightly now. </sentence><sentence id="1808">So these days were terrible days...nights for me really. </sentence><sentence id="1809">I couldn't sleep well and I was always on the alert. </sentence><sentence id="1810">But on the whole, they were nice to me as a Christian. </sentence><sentence id="1811">They treated me well, and, uh, I was a hard worker. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1827">Q: But you really didn't know much about his work in the <span class="building">SS</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1829">A: Not at all. </sentence><sentence id="1830">Nothing He never spoke about it, and she had no idea. </sentence><sentence id="1831">She had no idea. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1835">Q: No idea of what? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1837">A: She knew he works in the <span class="building">munitions factory</span>, but she didn't know a thing about it. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1839">Q: His wife, you mean? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1841">A: His wife. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1843">Q: Alright, let's cone back now. </sentence><sentence id="1844">It's liberation. </sentence><sentence id="1845">You have told them you are Jewish. </sentence><sentence id="1846">You have been given and you are about to leave. </sentence><sentence id="1847">Where did you go? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1853">A: I went to <span class="populated place">Stuttgart</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1854">OK? </sentence><sentence id="1855">And it was a <span class="populated place">DP camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1856">We had a <span class="interior space">room</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1857">We were 7 girls and, uh, we are all in the <span class="country">United States</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1863">Q: No, we'll don't want to get to the <span class="country">United States</span> later. </sentence><sentence id="1864">Stay in the <span class="populated place">camp</span> now. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1867">A: We stayed in the <span class="populated place">camp</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1869">Q: Describe it. </sentence><sentence id="1870">Please describe the <span class="populated place">DP camp</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1873">A: The <span class="populated place">DP camp</span> was very pleasant, very nice. </sentence><sentence id="1874">We had nice <span class="interior space">rooms</span> and food and, uh, pleasant surroundings. </sentence><sentence id="1875">It was really very, very nice. </sentence><sentence id="1876">And we were a group of 7 girls. </sentence><sentence id="1877">One girl played <span class="spatial object">piano</span> and she used to give concerts for us and concerts for the <span class="populated place">DP camp</span> and, uh, and, uh, the other...she was the oldest of us. </sentence><sentence id="1878">And there was another girl...and, uh, all the girls we got along fine. </sentence><sentence id="1879">We were in touch all the time afterwards. </sentence><sentence id="1880">And it was really a nice time. </sentence><sentence id="1881">In the <span class="populated place">camp</span> we had a very nice time. </sentence><sentence id="1882">But everyone of us tried to get in touch with families where we had...I set at that time already, you know, soldiers...Jewish soldiers used to come to the <span class="populated place">camp</span>, and they used to visit with us, and I set a Jewish soldier by the name of...from <span class="populated place">Brooklyn</span> and I told him that I had family in the <span class="country">United States</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1883">Uh...you know I was then a little girl. </sentence><sentence id="1884">I didn't know...I knew it was a brother of my father. </sentence><sentence id="1885">I knew his name. </sentence><sentence id="1886">I didn't know where he lived, but I knew it was in the <span class="country">United States</span>, and I knew in <span class="populated place">Buffalo</span>...lived in <span class="populated place">Buffalo</span>, but where and what, I didn't have no idea....that I have a sister in <span class="country">Israel</span>, I told the Rabbi, and uh, would they be able to get in touch with anybody of them. </sentence><sentence id="1887">I gave them description and all that, and, uh, the Rabbi that was at <span class="populated place">camp</span>, he got in touch with my sister in <span class="country">Israel</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1888">He got the address where she lived and she wrote me a little note. </sentence><sentence id="1889">She wrote the director of the <span class="populated place">camp</span> and the director gave it to me. </sentence><sentence id="1890">It was in Jewish written and so I got in touch with my sister. </sentence><sentence id="1891">Then I wrote a letter to <span class="populated place">Buffalo</span> to the <span class="building">Jewish community</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1892">Somehow he found out about my uncle, and I got the address of my uncle. </sentence><sentence id="1893">I got in touch with my uncle. </sentence><sentence id="1894">I got in touch with my sister and, uh, that's how life started again. </sentence><sentence id="1895">I got in the <span class="populated place">Jewish community</span> again and, uh, life became a little bit, you know, more civilized. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1919">Q: Did you go to work for...during this period? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1921">A: I worked not directly for them. </sentence><sentence id="1922">I went to work for the Polish liaison officer and the Polish liaison officer...his name was Mr.....he came to our <span class="populated place">DP camp</span> and...wait a minute, I am mixing up a little bit. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1926">Q: OK. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1928">A: This was the <span class="populated place">Jewish DP camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1929">Then while in the <span class="populated place">DP camp</span>...or was it there I met my husband. </sentence><sentence id="1930">OK. </sentence><sentence id="1931">The was formed. </sentence><sentence id="1932">OK? </sentence><sentence id="1933">And my husband also lived in there as a Christian...as a Frenchman in <span class="country">Germany</span>, and he was in German captivity as a Frenchman. </sentence><sentence id="1934">But he worked for the...and...was organized, and as such, he came to this <span class="populated place">camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1935">He met us...all the girls of us in the meantime, the organized a <span class="populated place">Polish DP camp</span> for Poles, and they needed somebody...a liaison, from one <span class="populated place">camp</span> to the other...from the <span class="populated place">Jewish camp</span> to the <span class="populated place">Polish camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1936">And the <span class="populated place">Polish camp</span> was Mr. Gotst, and I was the liaison officer for the <span class="populated place">Polish camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1937">My husband worked for the <span class="populated place">Polish camp</span> and as such, he came to check...he was an officer...messing officer, my husband. </sentence><sentence id="1938">A messing officer had to do with the food. </sentence><sentence id="1939">He came to check how the food was distributed in the <span class="populated place">Polish camp</span> to the Poles. </sentence><sentence id="1940">That is how I met my husband. </sentence><sentence id="1941">And, uh, there was my husband, and there was a Czechoslovakian Jew, and there was a rivalry between the two. </sentence><sentence id="1942">And these two took care of the <span class="populated place">Polish camp</span>...of the distribution of the food for the <span class="populated place">Polish camp</span>, and I was the liaison officer for that <span class="populated place">camp</span> and that's how I met my husband. </sentence><sentence id="1943">And we married. </sentence><sentence id="1944">He won out of the <span class="country">Czech</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1945">Anyway, that's how we married. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1964">Q: Very good. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1966">A: So, and that's how it was...coming to <span class="country">Germany</span> and the liberation and the marriage when my sister wanted us to come to <span class="country">Israel</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1967">Then I remembered I had an uncle in <span class="country">Australia</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1968">I knew <span class="populated place">Melbourne</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1969">I knew his name, and the American soldier. .. </sentence><sentence id="1970">got in touch with him too. </sentence><sentence id="1971">He wanted us to cone to <span class="country">Australia</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1972">My uncle, my father's brother, wanted us to come to the <span class="country">United States</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1973">And we chose the <span class="country">United States</span> over all of it. </sentence><sentence id="1974">We thought...my husband wanted to start <span class="building">school</span>...back to <span class="building">school</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1975">I wanted to do something with myself. </sentence><sentence id="1976">In <span class="country">Israel</span> at that time, you know, there was still not quite...so quite...I didn't want to go to <span class="country">Australia</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1977">It was too far. </sentence><sentence id="1978">We thought <span class="country">America</span> for us...would be the best. </sentence><sentence id="1979">My parents-in-law, they lived in <span class="populated place">Paris</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1980">They wanted us to cone to <span class="populated place">Paris</span> and live with them, and we both didn't want to. </sentence><sentence id="1981">We wanted to live by ourselves and establish life in the <span class="country">United States</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1982">And I wrote to my uncle and he sent us an affidavit and we came to <span class="populated place">Buffalo</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1983">And in <span class="populated place">Buffalo</span>, my husband...uh, I was pregnant at that time. </sentence><sentence id="1984">We lived...when my husband worked for the... <span class="interior space">underground</span>...we lived in the...get to the <span class="country">United States</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1985">So we stayed with the <span class="interior space">underground</span>, until we could get to the <span class="country">United States</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1986">But my father-in-law was a very prominent person en in <span class="country">Germany</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1987">After the liberation, after <span class="country">France</span> was liberated... You see I am jumping from one thing to another. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2010">Q: Let's stay with you. </sentence><sentence id="2011">I want to stay with you. </sentence><sentence id="2012">I am not interested in anything else, but you. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2016">A: OK. </sentence><sentence id="2017">I wanted you...to tell how we came to the <span class="country">United States</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2020">Q: Don't worry about <span class="country">France</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2021">Don't worry about anything else. </sentence><sentence id="2022">You came to the <span class="country">United States</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2026">A: Because my father-in-law helped us out. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2028">Q: OK. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2030">A: So we came to the <span class="country">United States</span>, and we lived in <span class="populated place">Buffalo</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2031">I was pregnant at the time...6 months. </sentence><sentence id="2032">And, uh, we couldn't get...the Americans wouldn't let us on the <span class="spatial object">ship</span> anymore, because they were afraid I might give birth on the <span class="spatial object">ship</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2033">Anyway, we came by an American...by <span class="spatial object">airplane</span>...American transport for soldiers. </sentence><sentence id="2034">We came with that <span class="spatial object">transport</span>, just the two of us with some others. </sentence><sentence id="2035">And I gave birth in the <span class="country">United States</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2036">But we didn't have any money even though we were living with my uncle. </sentence><sentence id="2037">The <span class="building">hospital</span> was supposed to be $150.And we didn't have the money. </sentence><sentence id="2038">We didn't want to take from . </sentence><sentence id="2039">My husband is French...German originality...lived in <span class="country">France</span>, and he translated a book.. <span class="spatial object">helicopters</span>, from French into English and he got $150 dollars for it. </sentence><sentence id="2040">So we paid the <span class="building">hospital</span> for that. </sentence><sentence id="2041">So I was glad that my uncle didn't have to pay. </sentence><sentence id="2042">And so, then we came to the <span class="country">United States</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2057">Q: You are here already. </sentence><sentence id="2058">Right? </sentence><sentence id="2059">You are in <span class="populated place">Buffalo</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2060">You have had the baby. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2065">A: Yeah. </sentence><sentence id="2066">My husband translated the book and we paid the <span class="building">hospital</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2069">Q: Let's capsulate a little bit. </sentence><sentence id="2070">You were in <span class="populated place">Buffalo</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2071">How long did you live in <span class="populated place">Buffalo</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2075">A: In <span class="populated place">Buffalo</span> we stayed only a few months. </sentence><sentence id="2076">I came...I was...uh, I was almost 6 months pregnant so we stayed about a couple of months. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2079">Q: You have the baby. </sentence><sentence id="2080">What did you do then? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2083">A: Nothing. </sentence><sentence id="2084">My husband then got a job in...well, some friends of my father-in-law in <span class="populated place">New York</span>...in <span class="region">New Jersey</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2087">Q: So with a newborn baby you moved to <span class="populated place">New York</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2089">A: No. </sentence><sentence id="2090">So he went to <span class="region">New Jersey</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2091">I stayed with the baby in <span class="populated place">Buffalo</span> for awhile until he found a place for us to live. </sentence><sentence id="2092">That's when I joined him...in <span class="region">New Jersey</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2093">That's where he worked. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2099">Q: What did your husband do? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2101">A: Well, my husband by trade...he is a chemical engineer and physicist. </sentence><sentence id="2102">But when we came to the <span class="country">United States</span>...no...by trade now he is that, but when we came to the <span class="country">United States</span>, he didn't have education like I did. </sentence><sentence id="2103">We had to do the education here. </sentence><sentence id="2104">So when we came to <span class="region">New Jersey</span>, he started <span class="building">school</span> and got his...he got his <span class="building">high school</span> diploma...<span class="building">American high school</span> diploma. </sentence><sentence id="2105">With that, he was accepted to <span class="building">Columbia University</span>, and he was a year there, but we couldn't afford to pay so we had to move to <span class="populated place">New York</span> in order to matriculate for him to go to <span class="building">CCNY</span>, <span class="building">City College of New York</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2106">So we did move to <span class="populated place">New York</span>, <span class="region">New York State</span>, to <span class="populated place">Astoria</span>, which is in <span class="populated place">New York</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2107">He got matriculated. </sentence><sentence id="2108">He went to <span class="building">school</span> and got his degree in physics and chemistry. </sentence><sentence id="2109">As such, he got a job in <span class="region">New Jersey</span>, and he was working then as a...as a metallurgist...not in his <span class="dlf">field</span> at all. </sentence><sentence id="2110">That's how we got to <span class="populated place">New York</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2122">Q: How many years did you live in <span class="populated place">New York</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2124">A: In <span class="populated place">New York</span>, we lived about...uh...I would say about 14 years, then we got transferred to <span class="populated place">Detroit</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2125">We lived there a few years, and then he was transferred back to <span class="region">New Jersey</span>, and we lived there from there on, we lived in <span class="populated place">New York</span>...in <span class="populated place">Astoria</span>, but he worked in <span class="region">New Jersey</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2128">Q: How many children did you have? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2130">A: Only one daughter. </sentence><sentence id="2131">Her name is Faye, and she is a....a...uh...landscape architect. </sentence><sentence id="2132">She has her own <span class="building">business</span> with a partner and is doing very well. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2136">Q: When did you come to <span class="populated place">Washington</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2138">A: To <span class="populated place">Washington</span> we came and it was 8...My husband in the meantime contracted the disease of multiple sclerosis and he worked until he was completely disabled, until about 82 or 81, something like that. </sentence><sentence id="2139">Then my daughter insisted that we came to live...she lived then in <span class="populated place">Washington</span>...that we come and live in <span class="populated place">Washington</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2140">It would be easier for me and for her to see her father. </sentence><sentence id="2141">That's when we moved to <span class="populated place">Washington</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2142">She lives in a...in a...isn't that something? </sentence><sentence id="2143">She lives in the <span class="region">Washington vicinity</span>... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2150">Q: It doesn't matter. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2152">A: <span class="populated place">Alexandria</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2153">Something you know, you talk and forget about... She lives in <span class="populated place">Alexandria</span> and she insisted on us coming to live near her which was a good idea because she helped me out a lot. </sentence><sentence id="2154">He was completely disabled. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2158">Q: You've gone...you are going to <span class="building">school</span>, and you have been doing <span class="spatial object">sculpture</span>? </sentence><sentence id="2159">Is that correct? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2162">A: Ok. </sentence><sentence id="2163">After awhile I decided I have to do something. </sentence><sentence id="2164">I was taking care of my husband all the time. </sentence><sentence id="2165">I have to do something for myself and also for therapy. </sentence><sentence id="2166">And I decided to go back to <span class="building">school</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2167">By the way, my husband graduated cum laude. </sentence><sentence id="2168">He went to <span class="building">night school</span> and worked during the day, so it was tough for him. </sentence><sentence id="2169">Anyway, I decided to go back to <span class="building">school</span> myself because my daughter was already grown up and on her own. </sentence><sentence id="2170">And I am taking up art. </sentence><sentence id="2171">I am taking up...not...but I worked towards a degree in art. </sentence><sentence id="2172">And, uh, I work...twice a week I work...twice a week I go to <span class="building">school</span>, so I am a very busy...very busy lady. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2184">Q: Tell me about the <span class="spatial object">sculpture</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2186">A: Ok. </sentence><sentence id="2187">The sculpture case about...I picked up <span class="spatial object">sculpture</span> in <span class="building">school</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2188">The teacher that I had was very instrumental in that <span class="spatial object">sculpture</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2189">She said...you know, I never talked about my past until I did the <span class="spatial object">sculpture</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2190">I never even told my daughter about my past. </sentence><sentence id="2191">Nobody knew about it. </sentence><sentence id="2192">But Rebecca insisted...my teacher...that I tell a little bit about my past, and I did. </sentence><sentence id="2193">And she said, why don't you do something about it?" </sentence><sentence id="2194">I was taking then <span class="spatial object">sculpture</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2195">Why don't you do a <span class="spatial object">sculpture</span> about your experiences? </sentence><sentence id="2196">This way you will get it out of your system and you will be able to talk about it." </sentence><sentence id="2197">I said, "Well, I'll think about it." </sentence><sentence id="2198">And I did. </sentence><sentence id="2199">I did do a sculpture...a sculpture of the burning Nazi. </sentence><sentence id="2200">I told you that he asked me...this Nazi asked me to burn his uniform. </sentence><sentence id="2201">I thought this would be a good subject to do, and I did that burning Nazi...a sculpture of that. </sentence><sentence id="2202">And that's how the <span class="spatial object">sculpture</span> came about. </sentence><sentence id="2203">But really Rebecca was instrumental because I didn't want to talk about it. </sentence><sentence id="2204">I wouldn't do anything about it, and she is the one that really, really made me do it. </sentence><sentence id="2205">And I as very grateful for her, because since then I talk about it...because on May 4, I gave sort of a little interview for the <span class="building">Holocaust Museum</span> with Susan. </sentence><sentence id="2206">And I told about the experiences and my daughter was present at that time and then she said, mommy, why didn't you ever tell me about it?" </sentence><sentence id="2207">I never did talk about it until I did this <span class="spatial object">sculpture</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2208">It really helped ne. </sentence><sentence id="2209">I can talk now freely, even though painful, but I talk about it, which is very good. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2235">Q: That's very important. </sentence><sentence id="2236">And you've told us your story. </sentence><sentence id="2237">You have brought it up to date. </sentence><sentence id="2238">Maybe now that you are a bit more relaxed, I would like to take you back again. </sentence><sentence id="2239">OK? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2245">A: Yes. </sentence><sentence id="2246">Yes, do that. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2249">Q: I would like to go back to <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2250">You sort of felt you needed to get through the whole story, but there are some points that I would like to talk about. </sentence><sentence id="2251">Bet's go back to <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2252">You have come from your small <span class="populated place">town</span> to <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2253">You are living 12 to a <span class="interior space">room</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2259">A: That's right. </sentence><sentence id="2260">Yes. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2263">Q: This is a very important time in the history of the <span class="populated place">Warsaw ghetto</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2265">A: <span class="populated place">Ghetto</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2266">Absolutely. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2269">Q: Would you describe...you've described the misery and the suffering, but can you describe to me what it was like for a Jew living under the Nazis at that point in tine? </sentence><sentence id="2270">Did you work, for instance? </sentence><sentence id="2271">What did you do? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2275">A: We didn't do anything. </sentence><sentence id="2276">We just lived aimlessly doing nothing. </sentence><sentence id="2277">You couldn't do anything. </sentence><sentence id="2278">You just have to be...you know, you were a slave. </sentence><sentence id="2279">You worked when they told you to work. </sentence><sentence id="2280">You did what they told you to do. </sentence><sentence id="2281">You could...you weren't yourself. </sentence><sentence id="2282">It was very inhuman. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2291">Q: When you worked, what did you do? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2293">A: Anything they asked we. </sentence><sentence id="2294">And it was sometimes doing...sweeping. </sentence><sentence id="2295">Sometimes picking up some things...real manual work that didn't mean anything to you that you had to do because you were told to do that. </sentence><sentence id="2296">Clean up here. </sentence><sentence id="2297">Clean up some <span class="interior space">latrines</span> and such things. </sentence><sentence id="2298">It was a terrible thing...a terrible time, but you had to do it. </sentence><sentence id="2299">You were asked to do it and you must do it. </sentence><sentence id="2300">You had to do it And, uh, you weren't yourself at all. </sentence><sentence id="2301">It was very inhuman. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2311">Q: What kind of clothes did you have? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2313">A: Nothing. </sentence><sentence id="2314">Very old clothing. </sentence><sentence id="2315">Very old clothing. </sentence><sentence id="2316">I had a sort of suit that I kept since I was interned as a slave girl, you know. </sentence><sentence id="2317">I had a black suit I remember was a skirt and a blouse which I wore to tatters cause I didn't have nothing else to wear. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2323">Q: Did you wear a Jewish star? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2325">A: That's right. </sentence><sentence id="2326">I can't explain to you how excited I was and how starved I was. </sentence><sentence id="2327">This is. .. </sentence><sentence id="2328">it is unbelievable to explain unless you lived it through yourself, you know. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2333">Q: What did you have to eat? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2335">A: Well, a piece of bread...hard bread...a little bit of water, very scanty things...potato maybe. </sentence><sentence id="2336">Almost nothing really. </sentence><sentence id="2337">Just...just enough...just enough to be alive. </sentence><sentence id="2338">Water was rationed. </sentence><sentence id="2339">A little piece of bread was old. </sentence><sentence id="2340">It was good then to me because it was something I had in my stomach, but it was terrible. </sentence><sentence id="2341">There was nothing to eat. </sentence><sentence id="2342">Nothing! </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2351">Q: How did you get the food? </sentence><sentence id="2352">Did you have ration cards? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2355">A: No, it was just brought into the <span class="dlf">rows</span>...whatever they rationed. </sentence><sentence id="2356">You say we called it rationed. </sentence><sentence id="2357">It was on a little <span class="spatial object">plate</span>, and whatever they brought in, that is what you ate. </sentence><sentence id="2358">It was very scanty...very...what should I tell you? </sentence><sentence id="2359">It was almost like nothing? </sentence><sentence id="2360">It was really a starvation diet? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2367">Q: Who were the 12 people in the <span class="interior space">room</span> with you? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2369">A: They were young girls. </sentence><sentence id="2370">One girl was . . . </sentence><sentence id="2371">she was barely in her teens. </sentence><sentence id="2372">She is now since dead. </sentence><sentence id="2373"><span class="building">Dorina</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2374">There was an older girl. </sentence><sentence id="2375">She is about now...she is about 80 years old. </sentence><sentence id="2376">She was the pianist and in spite of everything, she sit down at the <span class="spatial object">piano</span> and played. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2385">Q: Where did you get the <span class="spatial object">piano</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2387">A: I don't know where she got the <span class="spatial object">piano</span>, but there was a <span class="spatial object">piano</span> in the <span class="interior space">room</span> and she played. </sentence><sentence id="2388">I don't know where she got the <span class="spatial object">piano</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2389">And she used to entertain us with the <span class="spatial object">piano</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2390">I don't even recall how she got the <span class="spatial object">piano</span>, but she did play. </sentence><sentence id="2391">And she was very vivacious in spite of everything. </sentence><sentence id="2392">Sometimes she was so hungry, she...down at the <span class="spatial object">piano</span> and talked and talked how hungry she is and she played Chopin. </sentence><sentence id="2393">I mean she was wonderful. </sentence><sentence id="2394">She just passed away last year, and I was in touch with her all the years. </sentence><sentence id="2395">And most of the girls were younger than I was really. </sentence><sentence id="2396">I am going to be 69 in November. </sentence><sentence id="2397">The other girls, except she was now 80 years old...but she was the oldest of us. </sentence><sentence id="2398">And we had a glorious time together...the girls...in spite of everything. </sentence><sentence id="2399">We sang and we danced and made really the best that we could. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2413">Q: Do you remember any of the other girls. </sentence><sentence id="2414">Who else was with you? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2417">A: Well, there was Dorina; there was, there was Clara, uh I don't remember any others. </sentence><sentence id="2418">These are the girls that we were very close after the war. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2421">Q: Where were your parents and your sister at this time? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2423">A: My parents and my sister died when they were shot, I told you, in front of me when.... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2425">Q: It's the order of events that was confused, so let's go back. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2427">A: Yes. </sentence><sentence id="2428">OK. </sentence><sentence id="2429">When the Germans took everybody out of their <span class="building">homes</span>...<span class="building">houses</span> and <span class="interior space">rooms</span>, we were all in <span class="dlf">lines</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2430">There was this <span class="dlf">line</span> younger...this <span class="dlf">line</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2435">Q: This was before you were taken into the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> itself? </sentence><sentence id="2436">The selection took place... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2439">A: There was a selection at the <span class="dlf">ghetto line</span>...in the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> already. </sentence><sentence id="2440">Yes. </sentence><sentence id="2441">And my parents were meager looking, sickly looking, and they were shot immediately in front of me. </sentence><sentence id="2442">Now some other people, they looked healthier...they were taken to another <span class="dlf">line</span>...sort of to work. </sentence><sentence id="2443">Whether they went to work I doubt very much because we have never seen or heard of them. </sentence><sentence id="2444">That was the time...that's how we got separated from my parents and my sisters. </sentence><sentence id="2445">That's the last time I saw them, was in the <span class="dlf">line</span>...everybody. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2453">Q: How did you get from that <span class="dlf">line</span> to this... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2455">A: I told you, it was...I don't remember exactly, but Aliia and I, the other girl, we strayed away from the <span class="dlf">line</span> to sort of like a little <span class="dlf">alley</span>, and we sort of both hid there, like stooped in the <span class="dlf">line</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2457">Q: You are going... Now come and sit. </sentence><sentence id="2458">No. </sentence><sentence id="2459">What I want to do is try to get a sequence of events, because it is a bit confused. </sentence><sentence id="2460">OK? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2465">A: Yes. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2467">Q: You have described being in the <span class="interior space">apartment</span> with the girls in the <span class="populated place">Warsaw ghetto</span>, but you have told me that the selection where your parents were killed that took place before you were taken to this <span class="interior space">apartment</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2468">That doesn't make sense. </sentence><sentence id="2469">That's what I don't understand. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2473">A: No. </sentence><sentence id="2474">No. </sentence><sentence id="2475">To what <span class="interior space">apartment</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2479">Q: You were in an <span class="interior space">apartment</span> with 12 girls. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2481">A: Yes. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2483">Q: The selection where your parents were killed...did this take place before you were taken in the <span class="interior space">apartment</span> or after? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2485">A: The selection was when we were taken from the <span class="interior space">apartment</span> to the <span class="dlf">line</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2487">Q: OK. </sentence><sentence id="2488">That's what was confusing. </sentence><sentence id="2489">What I want to know is why were you living, if you remember, in an <span class="interior space">apartment</span> with the girls and not in an <span class="interior space">apartment</span> with your parents. </sentence><sentence id="2490">Do you remember why? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2495">A: The girls where we lived...this is after my parents were 5X killed that we girls lived in the seven girls lived in an <span class="interior space">apartment</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2496">It was after my parents were killed. </sentence><sentence id="2497">Had nothing to do with the <span class="interior space">apartment</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2501">Q: OK. </sentence><sentence id="2502">Don't worry about it. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2505">A: That was after...afterwards, unfortunately. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2507">Q: Tell me. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2509">A: The girls that lived in the <span class="interior space">apartment</span>, we were then in the <span class="populated place">DP camp</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2511">Q: We are talking about two different things and places. </sentence><sentence id="2512">I want to be in <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2513">Who were you living with when you were in <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2517">A: The <span class="populated place">Warsaw ghetto</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2519">Q: Yes. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2521">A: I lived with my parents. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2523">Q: That was the confusion. </sentence><sentence id="2524">I had asked about <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span> and then you were describing the <span class="interior space">apartment</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2527">A: No. </sentence><sentence id="2528">No. </sentence><sentence id="2529">No. </sentence><sentence id="2530">I then lived with my parents. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2535">Q: OK. </sentence><sentence id="2536">So you were living in an <span class="interior space">apartment</span> in <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2539">A: Yes. </sentence><sentence id="2540">With my parents. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2543">Q: With your parents and your sister. </sentence><sentence id="2544">What were your parents doing during this tine? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2547">A: Nothing. </sentence><sentence id="2548">Nobody did anything. </sentence><sentence id="2549">It was like waiting for death or for the catp 0 </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2553">Q: What kind of papers did you have? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2555">A: Then? </sentence><sentence id="2556">Let's see. </sentence><sentence id="2557">Where as I. Uh, that was before. .. </sentence><sentence id="2558">no, I had then already my false papers as a Christian girl. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2563">Q: OK. </sentence><sentence id="2564">Alright, let's leave it. </sentence><sentence id="2565">It's not...it's not all that important. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2569">A: It is important to see though. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2571">Q: Yeah. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2573">A: It's a terrible time and you have to... you have to really remember the things in sequence and it's very hard. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2575">Q: Well, it is because you were running around and trying to save your life and it's not easy. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2577">A: Exactly. </sentence><sentence id="2578">Yes. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2581">Q: It's not easy. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2583">A: Yes. </sentence><sentence id="2584">Yes. </sentence><sentence id="2585">I just know the terrible moment when my parents were killed. ( </sentence><sentence id="2586">long, long, long pause) Anyway, we have to continue. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2591">Q: OK. </sentence><sentence id="2592">You have brought some pictures? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2595">A: Yes. </sentence><sentence id="2596">The pictures I brought...because I really wanted you to see the authentic thing...how it was and when it was. </sentence><sentence id="2597">I wonder what you want to know. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2601">Q: Let's start with the first two. </sentence><sentence id="2602">You have arranged them in order. </sentence><sentence id="2603">Would you hold these up please? </sentence><sentence id="2604">We are going to just...take a picture. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2609">A: Yes, because I wanted everybody...I wanted to have my whole family because they were part of the whole thing. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2611">Q: Turn it around. </sentence><sentence id="2612">Alright you guys, will you please tell us how you want her to hold it. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="2615">Bonnie? </sentence><sentence id="2616">OK, like that. </sentence><sentence id="2617">Tell us who we are looking at. </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2618">A: OK. </sentence><sentence id="2619">On the <span class="region">right hand side</span>... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2622">Q: Keep it the same. </sentence><sentence id="2623">Don't move it. </sentence><sentence id="2624">Just tell us. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2628">A: Oh. </sentence><sentence id="2629">OK. </sentence><sentence id="2630">This is my mother and my father on this side. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2634">Q: This is before the war? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2636">A: This is before the war. </sentence><sentence id="2637">On the other side of the picture I have my sisters that perished in the <span class="populated place">camps</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2638">And let me see if] have it. </sentence><sentence id="2639">Yal, it's my sister...my sisters and my parents here. </sentence><sentence id="2640">Here is just a picture of my sister that still lives up in <span class="country">Israel</span>, the one... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2646">Q: Hold it. </sentence><sentence id="2647">You will have to turn it around, I think. </sentence><sentence id="2648">Will somebody tell me in my ear please what to do with the photograph? </sentence><sentence id="2649">Just turn it around so that they can see your sister. </sentence><sentence id="2650">No, you want to straighten it up. </sentence><sentence id="2651">See how it is sideways? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2658">A: Oh, I see. </sentence><sentence id="2659">Yes. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2662">Q: Just straighten it up. </sentence><sentence id="2663">Just turn it. </sentence><sentence id="2664">That's fine. </sentence><sentence id="2665">Just hold it up. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2670">A: That is my sister in <span class="country">Israel</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2672">Q: Hold it up to your chest. </sentence><sentence id="2673">OK. </sentence><sentence id="2674">Is that good? </sentence><sentence id="2675">Bring it forward a little. </sentence><sentence id="2676">Now tell us who that is please. </sentence><sentence id="2677">Tell me again who that is. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2684">A: Ok. </sentence><sentence id="2685">That is my sister, Hinda, and she lives in <span class="country">Israel</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2686">She left for <span class="country">Israel</span> just shortly before the breaking out of the war and she lives in <span class="populated place">Tel Aviv</span>, and I visit her occasionally. </sentence><sentence id="2687">I saw her last year. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2692">Q: Ok. </sentence><sentence id="2693">Can we see the next one? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2696">A: Ok. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2698">Q: Bonnie, is this good? </sentence><sentence id="2699">OK. </sentence><sentence id="2700">Go ahead. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2704">A: This is my false papers...a Christian girl. </sentence><sentence id="2705">This is the original and the back of it is a translation into English. </sentence><sentence id="2706">By name then was Maria... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2710">Q: OK. </sentence><sentence id="2711">Very good. </sentence><sentence id="2712">Let's go to the next one. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2716">A: OR. </sentence><sentence id="2717">This picture is a... This we had to wear in <span class="country">Germany</span> at all times signifying... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2720">Q: Excuse me. </sentence><sentence id="2721">I have been asked to ask you to take it out of the <span class="spatial object">case</span> and hold it in your hand. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2724">A: Ok. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2726">Q: Straighten it up. </sentence><sentence id="2727">Is that good, Bonnie? </sentence><sentence id="2728">Just like that. </sentence><sentence id="2729">Now explain it please. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2734">A: OK. </sentence><sentence id="2735">This is a P. Since I was then living as a Christian girl...as a Catholic girl...a Polish girl, the P stands for Polish. </sentence><sentence id="2736">We always had to wear it at all times, which sometimes I didn't and I got into trouble. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2740">Q: Good. </sentence><sentence id="2741">Thank you. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2744">A: That's it. </sentence><sentence id="2745">I can put it back? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2748">Q: You can put it back and whatever you take up to photograph, explain that as well. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2750">A: Ok. </sentence><sentence id="2751">This is a photograph of a Polish girl...a real Polish girl that lived on the same <span class="dlf">farm</span> where I was, but she was working for somebody else than myself. </sentence><sentence id="2752">She was the one that always thought that I am Jewish and that was my...I had lots of scares because of that. </sentence><sentence id="2753">But she" Il have the picture as a remembrance. </sentence><sentence id="2754">So that's the picture. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2760">Q: Ok. </sentence><sentence id="2761">Very good </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2764">A: These are all originals. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2766">Q: We have two minutes. </sentence><sentence id="2767">Could we have a shot? </sentence><sentence id="2768">We would like to have you hold up the... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2772">A: Yal. </sentence><sentence id="2773">I want to, but I want to put this... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2776">Q: We'll put this back afterwards. </sentence><sentence id="2777">That's okay. </sentence><sentence id="2778">Nothing is going to happen to it. </sentence><sentence id="2779">Just hold up the... Ok. </sentence><sentence id="2780">Just hold it straight up. </sentence><sentence id="2781">Hold it against you and wait a second and we'll tell you when the camera... Bonnie, tell me when. </sentence><sentence id="2782">They have to do something special with the <span class="spatial object">cameras</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2783">Ok. </sentence><sentence id="2784">Now can you describe it please? </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2785">Q: This is a letter that I got from the man that saved my life in <span class="populated place">Warsaw</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2786">His name was...He found me while I was sitting at the <span class="env feature">river</span>, and he started asking me questions who I am and finally, he...that I was Jewish and I told him then so that I as Jewish. </sentence><sentence id="2787">Then he told me...he took me to his <span class="populated place">camp</span> where I was hiding out there for several...for some time until the Germans invaded the <span class="populated place">camp</span> and I had to leave the <span class="populated place">camp</span> because I was Jewish. </sentence><sentence id="2788">We then we parted and he gave me that...to keep always. </sentence><sentence id="2789">This would save my life, and indeed I did always kept it with me until I gave it to the <span class="building">Holocaust Museum</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2790">This is a metal of most holiest of the Polish mothers....the holiest. .. </sentence><sentence id="2791"><span class="populated place">Czestochowa</span>...is one of the holiest. .. </sentence><sentence id="2792">He got that from his father...from his brother. </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2793">Q: Ok. </sentence><sentence id="2794">Hold it. </sentence><sentence id="2795">Let's bring it back. </sentence><sentence id="2796">We have another second for the <span class="spatial object">knife</span>? </sentence><sentence id="2797">Bonnie? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2803">A: Alright, just hold up the knife. </sentence><sentence id="2804">Hold it up so we can see the Nazi insignia. </sentence><sentence id="2805">Bonnie? </sentence><sentence id="2806">Ok. </sentence><sentence id="2807">Tell us what that is. </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2808">A: That is the knife I got from the German Nazi I worked for. </sentence><sentence id="2809">When we parted when I told him I was Jewish, he gave me the knife as a remembrance. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2812">Q: Very good. </sentence><sentence id="2813">Thank you. </sentence><sentence id="2814">Now let's put the knife back. </sentence><sentence id="2815">Thank you very much. </sentence><sentence id="2816">I know that took a lot out of you. </sentence><sentence id="2817">Okay? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2824">A: It sure did. </sentence><sentence id="2825">Don't you see my voice changed too. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2828">Q: Good. </sentence><sentence id="2829">Don't worry about how it is placed. </sentence><sentence id="2830">There. </sentence><sentence id="2831">Let him unclip you. </sentence><sentence id="2832">Sit down for a minute. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="2838">You are still clipped. </sentence><sentence id="2839">I will put theme away... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
</body> |
|
</html> |
