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layout: transcript |
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interviewee: niels none bamberger |
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rg_number: rg-50.030.0013 |
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pdf_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/oh_findingaids/rg-50.030.0013_trs_en.pdf |
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ushmm_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn504448 |
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gender: m |
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birth_date: 1928-10-21 |
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birth_year: 1928.0 |
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place_of_birth: wurzburg |
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country: germany |
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experience_group: survivor |
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ghetto(s)_encyclopedia: none |
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ghetto: none |
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camp(s)_encyclopedia: none |
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camp: none |
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non_ss_camp: none |
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region: none |
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needs_research: none |
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data_entry: cl |
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accession: 1989.h.0361 |
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revisit: none |
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tags: transcripts |
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<body><dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="1">NIELS BAMBERGER December 26, 1989 </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3">Q: Could you tell me your name please? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="5">A: Niels Bamberger. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="7">Q: And where and when were you born? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="9">A: I was born in October 1928 in <span class="country">Germany</span>. </sentence><sentence id="10"><span class="populated place">Wiirzburg</span>, <span class="country">Germany</span>. </sentence><sentence id="11">And I was born, as an infant, my parents fled <span class="country">Germany</span> to <span class="populated place">Copenhagen</span> in 1932, where my mother originally had come from. </sentence><sentence id="12">And, uh, she lived in...in <span class="country">Germany</span> for nine years, ten years. </sentence><sentence id="13">Then she went back to <span class="country">Denmark</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="19">Q: Why had she lived in <span class="country">Germany</span> for ten years? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="21">A: Because she got married. </sentence><sentence id="22">She grew up in <span class="country">Denmark</span> and lived in <span class="country">Denmark</span> and then she married my father who lived in <span class="country">Germany</span> and they were married in 1923 and then they went back to <span class="country">Denmark</span> when it started to get...uh...with Hitler, and it started to get too hot in <span class="country">Germany</span>. </sentence><sentence id="23">Then they went back to <span class="country">Denmark</span>. </sentence><sentence id="24">And that's where I actually grew up and lived half of my life. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="29">Q: Okay. </sentence><sentence id="30">Tell me about...what did your father do? </sentence><sentence id="31">What was his occupation? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="35">A: Well, in <span class="country">Denmark</span> he had an <span class="building">antique store</span>. </sentence><sentence id="36">He had an <span class="building">art store</span>; and they started that like in 1935-36 in <span class="populated place">Copenhagen</span>, "til we fled to <span class="country">Sweden</span> in 1943. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="39">Q: Tell me if you would about growing up in <span class="populated place">Copenhagen</span> before the Germans came, in the "30s? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="41">A: I went to a <span class="building">non-Jewish school</span>. </sentence><sentence id="42">I was... wouldn't say I was the only Jew in <span class="building">school</span>, but we were probably two or three fellows and the <span class="building">school</span> was from 8 to 2 every day and then in the afternoon, we went for Hebrew...for Hebrew lessons or <span class="building">Hebrew school</span> for another two, three hours. </sentence><sentence id="43">So we came back...we came <span class="building">home</span> like 5:30, 6:00 every night and did our homework. </sentence><sentence id="44">And that was the same routine. </sentence><sentence id="45">Of course, we had no <span class="building">schools</span> Saturday or Sunday. </sentence><sentence id="46">Then we were off and we went to football games and bicycling and things like that. </sentence><sentence id="47">Whatever we did with my friends. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="55">Q: What was yout...your parents" <span class="building">home</span> like. </sentence><sentence id="56">Did you practice...? </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="57">A: Well, we had a <span class="building">house</span> in <span class="populated place">Copenhagen</span>, in the center of <span class="populated place">Copenhagen</span>. </sentence><sentence id="58">We had our own <span class="building">house</span> that had belonged to my grandfather and great grandfather. </sentence><sentence id="59">It's still standing there now. </sentence><sentence id="60">And it's probably two or three hundred years old. </sentence><sentence id="61">And we had a big <span class="interior space">apartment</span> on the <span class="interior space">second floor</span>. </sentence><sentence id="62">There were other people living in the <span class="building">house</span> and then there were <span class="building">stores</span>. </sentence><sentence id="63">There were <span class="building">stores</span> on the <span class="interior space">ground floor</span>. </sentence><sentence id="64">And we had a <span class="building">synagogue</span> that had been there for more than one hundred years also started by my great-grandfather on...in the same <span class="building">house</span> we had that. </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="65">Q: In the same <span class="building">house</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="67">A: Yes. </sentence><sentence id="68">And it's still there. </sentence><sentence id="69">It's not anymore there today because it was given to the <span class="populated place">city</span> of <span class="populated place">Copenhagen</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="73">Q: Okay. </sentence><sentence id="74">Tell me how that worked? </sentence><sentence id="75">That is were you...you must have been heavily...your family was heavily involved in that <span class="building">synagogue</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="79">A: Yes. </sentence><sentence id="80">We were very...I was brought up very Orthodox; and, of course, my parents were too. </sentence><sentence id="81">My grandfather was a Rabbi, and my brother is a Rabbi today. </sentence><sentence id="82">So that's the way we grew up. </sentence><sentence id="83">We...we had a very good life. </sentence><sentence id="84">Like Tove said. </sentence><sentence id="85">And uh...we had no problems whatsoever all the time. </sentence><sentence id="86">Not money-wise or economic or we had no problem until it started in October "43, and the Germans had been in the <span class="country">country</span> for three years from "40 to "43. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="95">Q: Hold it for one minute. </sentence><sentence id="96">Before we get to the Germans, I would like to know a little more about your being Jewish in <span class="populated place">Copenhagen</span>. </sentence><sentence id="97">And you were so closely involved in the <span class="building">synagogue</span>. </sentence><sentence id="98">What...what did your Jewish life consist of? </sentence><sentence id="99">What kinds of things did you do? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="105">Holidays, services, what? </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="106">A: We had services every day in our <span class="building">synagogue</span>. </sentence><sentence id="107">And, of course, we had the sabbath, the Jewish Sabbath every week, and we had the Jewish holidays. </sentence><sentence id="108">And uh...the reason our <span class="building">synagogue</span> was started originally of...by my great grandfather or grandfather was that he didn't think that the big <span class="building">synagogue</span>--they have a beautiful, large <span class="building">synagogue</span> in Copenhagen-- but that wasn't Orthodox enough hundred years ago. </sentence><sentence id="109">They started with, uh...different reformed things; and they cut this prayer out and they cut this one out. </sentence><sentence id="110">And that's when my grandfather started his own <span class="building">synagogue</span>, so to speak. </sentence><sentence id="111">And like I said, it still...it still can be seen. </sentence><sentence id="112">It's in the <span class="building">museum</span> in <span class="populated place">Copenhagen</span>...the <span class="populated place">city</span>. </sentence><sentence id="113">You see them in <span class="populated place">Copenhagen</span>. </sentence><sentence id="114">They have...they removed everything when the <span class="building">house</span> was sold a couple of years ago. </sentence><sentence id="115">It...like I said, it's a very old <span class="building">building</span>, and it's in the heart of the <span class="populated place">city</span>. </sentence><sentence id="116">And there was no money to pay the taxes and the <span class="dlf">roof</span> was falling apart so to speak and...uh...then it was sold. </sentence><sentence id="117">The <span class="building">house</span> was sold, and the <span class="building">synagogue</span> was removed. </sentence><sentence id="118">And that's the story. </sentence><sentence id="119">Today, it's just an old, uh...landmark <span class="building">building</span> in the center of <span class="populated place">Copenhagen</span> that's being owned by a private man or corporation. </sentence><sentence id="120">I don't know who has it today. </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="121">Q: Uh, in growing up in such a very...in a <span class="building">Orthodox Jewish home</span>, did you feel differently? </sentence><sentence id="122">Did you feel you were treated differently than your Christian neighbors? </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="123">A: Not at all. </sentence><sentence id="124">They were my friends. </sentence><sentence id="125">And, uh...we went together for this or for that and we had birthday parties and we went to ball games and things like that, I said before. </sentence><sentence id="126">And, uh...there was no difference. </sentence><sentence id="127">Nobody ever mentioned anything about Jewish or non-Jewish. </sentence><sentence id="128">We were all the same. </sentence><sentence id="129">We were citizens of <span class="country">Denmark</span> and that's all they cared about. </sentence><sentence id="130">Nobody said you are Jewish or you are not Jewish. </sentence><sentence id="131">That made no difference to us. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="141">Q: When the Germans invaded in 1940, you would have been 12 years old? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="143">A: Right. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="145">Q: Uh, what can you tell me about, uh...the invasion itself? </sentence><sentence id="146">What do you remember? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="149">A: Well, we know that, uh, there were soldiers all over. </sentence><sentence id="150">And they threw out leaflets all over the <span class="populated place">city</span>, all over the <span class="country">country</span> that people could just go now and don't make any uproar. </sentence></p><p><sentence id="151">Everything will continue the way it was. </sentence><sentence id="152">Of course, everything became rationed or rationed whatever. </sentence><sentence id="153">And...uh... we were in <span class="building">school</span> that day. </sentence><sentence id="154">We saw loads and loads of <span class="spatial object">planes</span>, <span class="spatial object">bombing planes</span> coming one after...1 mean hundreds and hundreds of <span class="spatial object">planes</span> coming in and Germans on <span class="spatial object">motorcycles</span>, horses, dragging cannons and the big <span class="spatial object">tanks</span> all over the place. </sentence><sentence id="155">It didn't take more than a couple of hours "til they took over the <span class="country">country</span>. </sentence><sentence id="156">Like I said they [the Danes] couldn't resist. </sentence><sentence id="157"><span class="country">Denmark</span> was a very small country. </sentence><sentence id="158">And, uh...life went on as before, except that that you are not allowed to walk on this side of the <span class="dlf">street</span> in front of the <span class="building">bank</span>. </sentence></p><p><sentence id="159">They would post soldiers with, uh...guns and...and steel helmets and things like that in front of the <span class="building">banks</span> and the <span class="building">hotels</span> and important <span class="building">institutions</span> that they wanted to guard. </sentence><sentence id="160">But besides that nothing happened really. </sentence><sentence id="161">The police was in force and the Danish Army was...although they were there, they had not much to say or to do, but they were all...life was continuing the way it was. </sentence><sentence id="162">Everything got rationed and we had to buy butter and bread and gasoline, all the things. </sentence><sentence id="163">You couldn't go out and buy whatever you wanted, but there was plenty of it around. </sentence></p><p><sentence id="164"> The Germans took away whatever they needed, but there was still plenty. </sentence><sentence id="165"><span class="country">Denmark</span> is a <span class="region">dairy country</span>, so there was plenty of food for everybody. </sentence><sentence id="166">And then in...uh...in 1943, they took the...they arrested all the police and the Army. </sentence><sentence id="167">They took them away in August of "43. </sentence></p><p><sentence id="168">That's when we know...knew something was going to happen. </sentence><sentence id="169">They took them away and interned them all in <span class="populated place">camps</span> and took their weapons away and then they said that it was the police's fault and the army. </sentence><sentence id="170">Then all of a sudden they switched over and they said that it's all the Jews" fault. </sentence><sentence id="171">I mean they didn't say it, but we knew that something was going to happen. </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="172">Q: How? </sentence><sentence id="173">Tell me what your life had been like in those three years and then we will continue. </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="174">A: The same thing like before. </sentence><sentence id="175">We went to <span class="building">school</span>. </sentence><sentence id="176">We had food. </sentence><sentence id="177">We had all holidays. </sentence><sentence id="178">And...uh...we went to <span class="building">Hebrew school</span>, went to regular <span class="building">school</span>. </sentence><sentence id="179">There was no difference so to speak except that...uh...we saw the Germans all over. </sentence><sentence id="180">And...uh...everybody despised them. </sentence><sentence id="181">They still do today. </sentence><sentence id="182">When the Germans go to <span class="country">Denmark</span> with their big <span class="spatial object">cars</span> and so on, nobody likes them there. </sentence><sentence id="183">But otherwise, everything continued the way it had been til "43. </sentence><sentence id="184">I think it was August "43 that...uh...they took, the Germans...they took the police force and the soldiers and interned everybody and...uh... August...and October Ist, I believe it was Rosh Hashanah, they had been in to pick up the...all the files from the Jewish... uh...community. </sentence><sentence id="185">They had all the names, all the addresses of everyone in <span class="populated place">Copenhagen</span>, which was about 6,000 Jews and they had.... They knew where they lived, what they did, their business. </sentence><sentence id="186">They had everything. </sentence><sentence id="187">And we were informed in the <span class="building">synagogue</span> on Rosh Hashanah, the first day of Rosh Hashanah, we were informed that nobody should go <span class="building">home</span> because the Germans are going to round you up the night between the Ist and the 2nd of October. </sentence><sentence id="188">And those who believed it, which most of the people did, we were all scared. </sentence><sentence id="189">They...uh...didn't go <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="190">We all had made arrangements with some non-Jews, some Danish where we could stay or where to sleep. </sentence><sentence id="191">Those who didn't believe it. </sentence><sentence id="192">They were taken, which was a very small percentage anyhow. </sentence><sentence id="193">And they all came back after the war. </sentence><sentence id="194">So we went to our <span class="building">grocer</span> who was a bachelor and he said, "Come to my <span class="building">house</span> and I'll take care of you." </sentence><sentence id="195">So after the <span class="building">synagogue</span>, we went to him and he bought us, or he had in his <span class="building">store</span> bread and butter and cheese and milk and eggs, whatever we needed. </sentence><sentence id="196">He took care of us for a week til we found a connection how to get out of the <span class="country">country</span>. </sentence><sentence id="197"><span class="populated place">Copenhagen</span> is on the <span class="env feature">seashore</span> and we went up to <span class="populated place">Snekkersten</span>, same place and where most of them went from. </sentence><sentence id="198">Everybody went to <span class="country">Sweden</span> from there because it's the narrowest point between <span class="country">Denmark</span> and <span class="country">Sweden</span>. </sentence><sentence id="199">It's like three, four miles wide. </sentence><sentence id="200">That's the whole thing...the <span class="env feature">waterway</span>. </sentence><sentence id="201">But it is very heavy <span class="dlf">stream</span> there. </sentence><sentence id="202">It's a very heavy...uh... <span class="env feature">waterway</span>. </sentence><sentence id="203">So we stayed in his <span class="building">house</span> and.... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="234">Q: In whose.... Excuse me. </sentence><sentence id="235">How...first of all, how did you get to <span class="populated place">Snekkersten</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="238">A: How did we get there? </sentence><sentence id="239">Well, he called up every day. </sentence><sentence id="240">He called up somebody that he knew from the resistance movement and he didn't say...we went with...I went with my parents and my two brothers and a sister. </sentence><sentence id="241">We were six people altogether. </sentence><sentence id="242">And he wouldn't say that he has some people to send. </sentence><sentence id="243">He didn't know if this <span class="spatial object">telephone</span> was...uh...what do you call it? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="250">Q: Tapped? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="252">A: Tapped! </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="254">Q: This is your <span class="building">grocer</span> calling? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="256">A: Yes. </sentence><sentence id="257">So he called up. </sentence><sentence id="258">He said, "I have six tons of potatoes. </sentence><sentence id="259">Could you come and pick them up?" " </sentence><sentence id="260">Til he finally got a connection. </sentence><sentence id="261">And uh...it took us about a week, until the day before Yom Kippur. </sentence><sentence id="262">And then we got a <span class="spatial object">taxi</span>; and the <span class="spatial object">taxi</span> took us up to that place up in <span class="populated place">Snekkersten</span>, where everybody had been collected, so to speak. </sentence><sentence id="263">All the people were there. </sentence><sentence id="264">There were two or three hundred people there everyday, four hundred people maybe in somebody's <span class="building">home</span>, in a <span class="interior space">basement</span>. </sentence><sentence id="265">And I remember as a child that...uh...we were covered up in the <span class="spatial object">taxi</span> with...uh...a blanket in case the police would stop and say, "What's wrong? </sentence><sentence id="266">What do you have in there?" </sentence><sentence id="267">He would say, "I have a sick person. </sentence><sentence id="268">Just close the <span class="dlf">door</span>. </sentence><sentence id="269">I have to go to the <span class="building">hospital</span>." </sentence><sentence id="270">So we were covered up and he went up there. </sentence><sentence id="271">It's not more than 30, 40 minute ride by <span class="spatial object">taxi</span>. </sentence><sentence id="272">We went up there. </sentence><sentence id="273">We came to that <span class="building">house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="274">And...uh...we met somebody from the resistance movement who took us down to the <span class="dlf">pier</span> at night, and we came down there and we were told that the <span class="spatial object">boat</span> we were supposed to go with had been taken by somebody else who paid more money for it. </sentence><sentence id="275">He paid a big sum of money, so he took this man out by himself...the <span class="spatial object">fishing boat</span>. </sentence><sentence id="276">So we had to wait til the next day and...uh...the next day, luckily for us it had been organized this way that the resistance movement had a big <span class="spatial object">schooner-like</span>; and they took two or three hundred people aboard. </sentence><sentence id="277">We went all down...down below <span class="interior space">deck</span>, and uh...we went out there by <span class="spatial object">row boats</span>. </sentence><sentence id="278">It wasn't far out to the <span class="spatial object">ship</span> and when they had all the people there, first we paid them money. </sentence><sentence id="279">We paid like 2,000 krone a person. </sentence><sentence id="280">That was the going rate. </sentence><sentence id="281">Which was a lot of money at that time; but we were told if you come to <span class="country">Sweden</span> the money is worthless. </sentence><sentence id="282">You can't do anything with it. </sentence><sentence id="283">You might as well leave it here, number 1, and number 2, whatever money you give now will help those people who are poor or sick and can't afford it. </sentence><sentence id="284">They will also get out. </sentence><sentence id="285">Everybody got out, whether they had money or not. </sentence><sentence id="286">They were all helped to get out. </sentence><sentence id="287">And we got aboard that <span class="spatial object">ship</span> and, uh... we got off. </sentence><sentence id="288">We sailed also...uh...for an hour or so at midnight and in the middle of the <span class="env feature">ocean</span> we had this big <span class="spatial object">Swedish torpedo boat</span> or <span class="spatial object">gunboat</span> coming towards us. </sentence><sentence id="289">We all thought it was the Germans, but it was the <span class="spatial object">Swedish boat</span>. </sentence><sentence id="290">They had the same kind of uniforms and they helped us all off, on the <span class="spatial object">Swedish ship</span>. </sentence><sentence id="291">We got aboard the <span class="spatial object">Swedish ship</span> and they gave us coffee and candy or whatever, and then we went into <span class="country">Sweden</span>. </sentence><sentence id="292">And we were saved. ( </sentence><sentence id="293">cough) So when we arrived in <span class="country">Sweden</span>, we were all listed by names. </sentence><sentence id="294">They wanted to know who is coming and here that they didn't have any German helpers or whoever. </sentence><sentence id="295">We were all listed by name and address and age and so on. </sentence><sentence id="296">And we came there on the night of Yom Kippur or the day before Yom Kippur, which was very unpleasant for us. </sentence><sentence id="297">We got food. </sentence><sentence id="298">We got clothing. </sentence><sentence id="299">We had nothing along except what we wore. </sentence><sentence id="300">We had no...we had nothing along with us. </sentence><sentence id="301">Just what we had on! </sentence><sentence id="302">And...uh...[ remember that we went to...we were in a <span class="populated place">camp</span>, a big <span class="populated place">camp</span> that was guarded by the Swedish soldiers, and we could go freely. </sentence><sentence id="303">We could go in and out the way we wanted. </sentence><sentence id="304">We wanted, of course, my father wanted to go to the <span class="building">synagogue</span>--which was like 10, 12 miles away. </sentence><sentence id="305">And we all walked in there, on Yom Kippur morning, into <span class="populated place">Halsingborg</span>. </sentence><sentence id="306">We walked in there to <span class="building">synagogue</span> and we.... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="358">Q: You walked 12 miles just to go to <span class="building">synagogue</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="359">A: Yes. </sentence><sentence id="360">And we attended the services, a full day of services, without food. </sentence><sentence id="361">And uh...in the middle of the afternoon, a girl came in with a <span class="spatial object">bus</span>, a big <span class="spatial object">bus</span>; and they interrupted the services. </sentence><sentence id="362">And they said that all the people from <span class="country">Denmark</span>, all the refugees who are here in the <span class="building">synagogue</span>, should immediately come out to the <span class="spatial object">bus</span> and go back to <span class="populated place">camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="363">They had left the <span class="populated place">camp</span> and we should go back. </sentence><sentence id="364">So my father said, "Now that we have been saved from the Germans, we are not going to go on a <span class="spatial object">bus</span> on Yom Kippur." </sentence><sentence id="365">We were not used to that. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="373">(Laughing) So we waited until after the services were over at night, and then somebody took us <span class="building">home</span> from the <span class="building">synagogue</span>. </sentence><sentence id="374">Somebody drove us back to the <span class="populated place">camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="375">And when we came back to <span class="populated place">camp</span>, we were told, "You have to leave tonight. </sentence><sentence id="376">Because you didn't come back with the girl that was sent with the <span class="spatial object">bus</span>, so you have to leave tonight." </sentence><sentence id="377">And uh...we had no money or anything. </sentence><sentence id="378">So we went to the <span class="building">railroad station</span>; and somebody bought us the tickets to <span class="populated place">Malme</span>, where my father had a cousin. </sentence><sentence id="379">So we came there in the middle of the night, 2 or 3 o'clock in the morning. </sentence><sentence id="380">But we were very lucky. </sentence><sentence id="381">We were saved. </sentence><sentence id="382">We were happy. </sentence><sentence id="383">And uh...then we got an <span class="interior space">apartment</span> there eventually. </sentence><sentence id="384">Little by little, my parents started a <span class="building">restaurant</span>. </sentence><sentence id="385">On the card I gave you, you can see that from that time. </sentence><sentence id="386">My parents started a <span class="building">restaurant</span>, because my mother felt if she makes food for other people--she was a very good cook--then there'll be enough for us to eat, also. </sentence><sentence id="387">And we all got jobs for October, November, December; and in January, the <span class="building">school</span> opened...a <span class="building">Danish school</span> for the...for the refugees-- children, or so to speak. </sentence><sentence id="388">And we went to <span class="building">school</span> there where we had left it off in <span class="country">Denmark</span> and continued in <span class="country">Sweden</span>. </sentence><sentence id="389">We...it was in <span class="populated place">Lund</span>. </sentence><sentence id="390">We went there by <span class="spatial object">train</span> every day, which was a 20, 25-minute <span class="spatial object">train</span> ride and we got the <span class="spatial object">train</span>...the, uh, tickets from the government, and we got pocket money. </sentence><sentence id="391">Each one got pocket money; and on Sunday, in order to make something extra for us, or to help our parents, we made...I remember that I delivered flowers. </sentence><sentence id="392">I worked in a <span class="building">flower shop</span>, and delivered flowers as a boy. </sentence><sentence id="393">I was 15 years old, so I made extra money that way. </sentence><sentence id="394">And we were very happy there. </sentence><sentence id="395">We had all the goodies that we didn't have in <span class="country">Denmark</span>. </sentence><sentence id="396">They didn't have bananas and oranges and chocolate and chewing gum. </sentence><sentence id="397">We didn't have in <span class="country">Denmark</span> anymore at that time, so we could buy that in <span class="country">Sweden</span>. </sentence><sentence id="398">Not that it was so important, but, uh...there was plenty of everything. </sentence><sentence id="399"><span class="country">Sweden</span> was neutral, and they kept on importing whatever you wanted. </sentence><sentence id="400">They had everything. </sentence><sentence id="401">And that's actually what happened to us in <span class="country">Sweden</span>. </sentence><sentence id="402">We were there for...we were there for close to two years, "til May "45. </sentence><sentence id="403">Everybody went back to <span class="country">Denmark</span>. </sentence><sentence id="404">We were very happy. </sentence><sentence id="405">On May 4th, when we [were] told that the Germans gave up in <span class="country">Denmark</span> and <span class="country">Norway</span>, <span class="country">Holland</span>, <span class="country">Belgium</span>...uh, we went back.... Everybody was celebrating. </sentence><sentence id="406">And the 28th of May everybody went back on the <span class="spatial object">ferry boats</span> to <span class="country">Denmark</span>. </sentence><sentence id="407">And when we came back to <span class="country">Denmark</span>, each one...there were all the Danes were there, and we all got money. </sentence><sentence id="408">Not a lot of money, but we got some money. </sentence><sentence id="409">So we could take a <span class="spatial object">taxi</span> or <span class="spatial object">bus</span> or whatever <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="410">Each person got some money from the Danish government. </sentence><sentence id="411">And I remember we came <span class="building">home</span> to our <span class="interior space">apartment</span> and found everything the way we had left it--except, of course, there were mice and spiders and all kinds of things. </sentence><sentence id="412">But the food was on the <span class="spatial object">table</span>, in the <span class="spatial object">pots</span>. </sentence><sentence id="413">Nobody had been into the <span class="interior space">apartment</span>. </sentence><sentence id="414">Everything was the way we left it. </sentence><sentence id="415">And the <span class="building">synagogue</span> that I mentioned before, our lawyer had taken away the torah scrolls and hidden them in a...what you say, in a <span class="interior space">vault</span>? </sentence><sentence id="416"><span class="interior space">Safety vault</span>, ina <span class="building">bank</span>. </sentence><sentence id="417">And they were all...everything was left the way, the way...uh...everything came back the way we left it two years earlier. </sentence><sentence id="418">What else? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="465">Q: Was your father involved at all in...uh...the <span class="building">brigade</span>? </sentence><sentence id="466">When you were in <span class="country">Sweden</span>, was your father involved at all in the <span class="building">brigade</span> that was being formed? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="469">A: No. </sentence><sentence id="470">I applied for it, but I was only, uh...15 years old, or going on 16, and I was too young. </sentence><sentence id="471">They wouldn't take anybody below 18. </sentence><sentence id="472">And my father was actually too old. [ </sentence><sentence id="473">In] "43, he was almost 60 at that time. </sentence><sentence id="474">So they had enough young people and what they actually needed them for.... There was no fighting when we came back. </sentence><sentence id="475">What they needed them for was to clean up after the Germans, and take the weapons away and count this and count that. </sentence><sentence id="476">And the uniforms...whatever they had. </sentence><sentence id="477">My father was too old, and I was too young, so to speak; so they didn't take me. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="487">Q: What did you do when you came back to <span class="country">Denmark</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="489">A: I went back to <span class="building">school</span>. </sentence><sentence id="490">I continued <span class="building">school</span> where I had left off and...uh...there was no... I shouldn't say hard feelings. </sentence><sentence id="491">Everybody was...they were all helping us, all the time in <span class="country">Denmark</span>. </sentence><sentence id="492">All the non-Jews were helping the Jews. </sentence><sentence id="493">There was no difference; and I am sure today they would just say, "You are Danish citizens. </sentence><sentence id="494">You are the same as we are." </sentence><sentence id="495">Nobody would ever ask, "Are you Jewish? </sentence><sentence id="496">Are you black? </sentence><sentence id="497">Are you Chinese?" </sentence><sentence id="498">They don't care. </sentence><sentence id="499">And they helped everybody there. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="511">Q: What kind of help did you receive? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="513">A: Pardon me? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="515">Q: What kind of help did you receive as a family? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="517">A: Well, we had to get back on our feet. </sentence><sentence id="518">We had to...uh...get back to <span class="building">school</span> and clean up in the <span class="building">house</span> and buy new clothes and <span class="spatial object">furniture</span> or whatever we needed there. </sentence><sentence id="519">And my parents got back in their <span class="building">business</span> which had been rented out to somebody while we were away, and the same business they got back again when we came back from...when we came back from <span class="country">Sweden</span>. </sentence><sentence id="520">They continued that. ( </sentence><sentence id="521">long sigh) I had my friends. </sentence><sentence id="522">They were all very helpful to me. </sentence><sentence id="523">And we spoke about <span class="country">Sweden</span>. </sentence><sentence id="524">And they told us what had been going on in <span class="country">Denmark</span> during the war. </sentence><sentence id="525">The <span class="building">synagogue</span>...the big <span class="building">synagogue</span> in <span class="populated place">Copenhagen</span> which is one of the most beautiful one in the world had been used for the German refugees. </sentence><sentence id="526">They had taken everything out and put <span class="spatial object">beds</span> or <span class="spatial object">cots</span> in there and they had all the Germans who were invalids and sick people. </sentence><sentence id="527">They put them in there. </sentence><sentence id="528">That had to be cleaned up. </sentence><sentence id="529">And the <span class="building">synagogue</span> was brought back into order in a very short time. </sentence><sentence id="530">And while this was going on, they used our <span class="building">synagogue</span> in...in my parents" <span class="building">house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="531">That was used as the big <span class="building">synagogue</span> so to speak. </sentence><sentence id="532">So we have pictures from that also...from that <span class="building">synagogue</span>. </sentence><sentence id="533">Should I mention about that <span class="spatial object">pin</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="551">Q: Yes. </sentence><sentence id="552">Please do. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="555">A: This <span class="spatial object">pin</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="557">Q: Tell us about the pin you are wearing? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="559">A: Well, this is made by...it was made during the war by George Hensen. </sentence><sentence id="560">It was made in silver and this one was made in gold and enamel. </sentence><sentence id="561">It was made for the King Christian X who was one of the biggest heroes, I would say, during the war. </sentence><sentence id="562">Uh... whatever money it cost to make it...the excess money that was left over, went to the resistance movement. </sentence><sentence id="563">That's the way...almost every Dane had it or supported it this way. </sentence><sentence id="564">There are not many left of them today. </sentence><sentence id="565">It was made in 1940 for the King's 70th birthday. </sentence><sentence id="566">There are not many left because first of all, people needed money and they sold them for the value of the silver or gold during the war, but they are back in style today, and I have this from my father. </sentence><sentence id="567">That's why I wear...that's why I am wearing it now. </sentence><sentence id="568">The King Christian the Tenth, they always told stories about the King, about the Jewish Star, that first of all, he was riding around on a horse everyday unescorted by himself. </sentence><sentence id="569">Every morning he would take the same <span class="dlf">route</span>. </sentence><sentence id="570">Anyone could have killed him as easy as nothing, but he was not afraid. </sentence><sentence id="571">And the King said if the Jews ever have to wear the...uh...the Jewish star, the six-pointed Jewish star where it said Jew on it, he would be the first one to wear it, but it never materialized during the war. </sentence><sentence id="572">It never happened. </sentence><sentence id="573">What else can I... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="589">Q: Okay. </sentence><sentence id="590">Is there anything else you want to add? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="593">A: Well, I would say that the Danes are great people. </sentence><sentence id="594">And one of the few <span class="country">countries</span>...one of the few <span class="country">nations</span> that did more than their share to help the Jews all over the world and they... am sure they would repeat the same thing and do it today again if it happened, if it should happen that they would be willing to help with money, deeds and everything. </sentence><sentence id="595">They are very unselfish and they are not asking for any thank you or anything in public by anyone. </sentence><sentence id="596">They never did. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="601">Q: Okay. </sentence><sentence id="602">On that note, I thank you very much. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="605">A: Not at all. </sentence><sentence id="606">My pleasure. </sentence><sentence id="607">That's it? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="611">Q: Okay. </sentence><sentence id="612">Thank you. </sentence><sentence id="613">I am glad we got in about the pin. </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="614">A: I think it was important. </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="615">Q: Yes. </sentence><sentence id="616">I think we do actually. </sentence><sentence id="617">Okay. </sentence><sentence id="618">Ifyou sit still, they are going to bring the <span class="spatial object">camera</span> in and they'll take a picture of the pin and then maybe we'll have Arnold take a picture of it as well. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="623">We have a gentlemen who is going to take your photograph. </sentence><sentence id="624">The film has stopped. </sentence><sentence id="625">We have a gentleman who will take your photographs. </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="626">A: How long did this take? </sentence><sentence id="627">45 minutes? </sentence><sentence id="628">I don't remember. </sentence><sentence id="629">I don't remember everything together at one time. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="634">Q: Well, it all came together very neatly. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="636">A: Okay. </sentence><sentence id="637">As long as you are satisfied. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="640">Q: Iam very happy. </sentence><sentence id="641">Okay. </sentence><sentence id="642">We need you to be very still. </sentence><sentence id="643">They are going to bring a zoom lens in and...uh...take picture just of the pin. </sentence><sentence id="644">You don't move for a few seconds and they will... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="650">A: Now? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="652">Q: Yal. </sentence><sentence id="653">Just don't move for a little bit, and they got a different lens on the <span class="spatial object">camera</span> and they are doing funny things to it so that... They are doing fancy things to the zoom lens so they can get a close up of that pin. </sentence><sentence id="654">It's a wonderful story, that pin...and...uh. </sentence><sentence id="655">Okay. </sentence><sentence id="656">If you would explain the story of the <span class="spatial object">pin</span> now. </sentence><sentence id="657">Don't move. </sentence><sentence id="658">Just explain it because we are right in on that? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="666">A: The pin was made in 1940. </sentence><sentence id="667">It was made by George Hensen, silversmith, for the King's--who was Christian the Tenth--70th birthday, and all the money, the excess money above the cost of the pin went to the resistance movement. </sentence><sentence id="668">The <span class="spatial object">pin</span> was made in gold and it was also made in silver and enamel. </sentence><sentence id="669">And it was sold almost by any silversmith or <span class="building">silver shop</span> in <span class="populated place">Copenhagen</span>. </sentence><sentence id="670">I should say in <span class="country">Denmark</span>, all over <span class="country">Denmark</span>. </sentence><sentence id="671">It was sold for raising, in order to raise money for the resistance movement. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="678">Q: Okay. </sentence><sentence id="679">Could you point to the pin please? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="682">A: Point to it? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="684">Q: Just point to it. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="686">A: This one here? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="688">Q: Uh, huh. </sentence><sentence id="689">Okay. </sentence><sentence id="690">That's it. </sentence><sentence id="691">All right. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="696">A: That's it? </sentence><sentence id="697">Thank you. </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="698">Q: Thank you very much. </sentence><sentence id="699">I am delighted. </sentence><sentence id="700">It went very well. </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="701">A: Iam glad you have it now. </sentence><sentence id="702"> </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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