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layout: transcript |
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interviewee: tove schöbaum bamberger |
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rg_number: rg-50.030.0014 |
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pdf_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/oh_findingaids/rg-50.030.0014_trs_en.pdf |
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ushmm_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn504451 |
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gender: f |
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birth_date: 1934-10-08 |
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birth_year: 1934.0 |
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place_of_birth: copenhagen |
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country: denmark |
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experience_group: survivor |
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ghetto(s)_encyclopedia: none |
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ghetto: none |
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camp(s)_encyclopedia: none |
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camp: none |
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non_ss_camp: none |
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region: none |
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needs_research: none |
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data_entry: cl |
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accession: 1989.a.0362 |
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revisit: none |
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tags: transcripts |
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<body><dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="1"> TOVE BAMBERGER December 26, 1989 </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3">Q: Would you tell me your name please? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="5">A: Yes. [ </sentence><sentence id="6">am <span class="populated place">Tove Bamberger</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="9">Q: Where were your born? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="11">A: I was born in <span class="populated place">Copenhagen</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="13">Q: When? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="15">A: October 8, 1934. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="17">Q: Tell me about your family, your parents. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="19">A: Well, I have a mother and sister, one sister. </sentence><sentence id="20">Mother and father and one sister. </sentence><sentence id="21">She is five years older than me. </sentence><sentence id="22">She leaves in <span class="populated place">Copenhagen</span> still. </sentence><sentence id="23">She is married. </sentence><sentence id="24">She has two children. </sentence><sentence id="25">And | lived there until I got married. </sentence><sentence id="26">Then we moved to <span class="country">America</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="35">Q: Tell me about when you were very little, growing up. </sentence><sentence id="36">What was it like to be a little child in that family in <span class="populated place">Copenhagen</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="39">A: Well, I have very pleasant memories. </sentence><sentence id="40">I remember, well I was very young, and I remember when the Germans came-- </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="43">Q: Let's do before. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="45">A: Before the Germans came? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="47">Q: Let's back up. </sentence><sentence id="48">You were very little. </sentence><sentence id="49">You were a child. </sentence><sentence id="50">What did your father do? </sentence><sentence id="51">What was his business? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="57">A: My father had a <span class="building">business</span>, <span class="building">men's clothing business</span>, on the main <span class="dlf">street</span> in <span class="populated place">Copenhagen</span>. </sentence><sentence id="58">We were -- he was -- we were what you call pretty well-to-do. </sentence><sentence id="59">And, my mother didn't work, and I was little and my sister I think she was in <span class="building">school</span>. </sentence><sentence id="60">Yeah, we were both young. </sentence><sentence id="61">It was a very pleasant life. </sentence><sentence id="62">We had a maid. </sentence><sentence id="63">We lived in an <span class="interior space">apartment</span> and I just have very good memories. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="71">Q: Tell me, did you have lots of friends? </sentence><sentence id="72">What did you do? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="75">A: Well.... You talking about before the war? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="77">Q: Uh-huh. </sentence><sentence id="78">Yes. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="81">A: I was just four years old. </sentence><sentence id="82">I don't -- I just remember going <span class="interior space">downstairs</span> and playing with a <span class="spatial object">tricycle</span> on the <span class="dlf">street</span>. </sentence><sentence id="83">People weren't afraid of letting the children out alone, and I have only good memories. </sentence><sentence id="84">I don't remember the other friends. </sentence><sentence id="85">It is a long time ago, but just pleasant memories. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="91">Q: What do you remember of when the Germans came? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="93">A: Well, I know that my uncle called up -- my, my mother's brother called us up. </sentence><sentence id="94">I remember that. </sentence><sentence id="95">And he said, "Go <span class="interior space">downstairs</span> on the <span class="dlf">street</span> and look up in the <span class="env feature">sky</span>. </sentence><sentence id="96">The Germans are invading <span class="country">Denmark</span>." </sentence><sentence id="97">And I remember very -- like it was yesterday going down with my father and my mother and my sister looking up and all of a sudden seeing <span class="env feature">sky</span> was full of black <span class="spatial object">airplanes</span>. </sentence><sentence id="98">That was April 9, 1940 -- 1940, April 9th, and the Germans were coming and -- like a little kid was excitement. </sentence><sentence id="99">I didn't realize what will happen. </sentence><sentence id="100">And the Danes fought for, I think, two hours and then they were occupied. </sentence><sentence id="101">They were taken over. </sentence><sentence id="102"><span class="country">Denmark</span> is a small country. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="113">Q: Was there any change in your life once the Germans occupied? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="115">A: Not that I can remember. </sentence><sentence id="116">No. </sentence><sentence id="117"><span class="country">Denmark</span> went on as usual. </sentence><sentence id="118">Nothing happened to the Danes or the Jews and <span class="country">Germany</span> was sort of a friendly takeover. </sentence><sentence id="119">The Danes cooperated. </sentence><sentence id="120">The police was still -- I mean they hated the Germans, but they didn't, you know they didn't fight them because there was still Danish police stay -- still stayed for few years. </sentence><sentence id="121">And the government stayed. </sentence><sentence id="122">It was really like sort of a benign takeover for a few years. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="131">Q: Did you go to <span class="building">school</span>? </sentence><sentence id="132">By that time you would be six? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="135">A: Yeah. </sentence><sentence id="136">I went to first grade. </sentence><sentence id="137">I went to <span class="building">Jewish school</span>. </sentence><sentence id="138"><span class="populated place">Carolineskolen</span>, it was called. </sentence><sentence id="139">I think I went to first grade and second grade before we fled. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="145">Q: Tell me about it. </sentence><sentence id="146">Tell me about that <span class="building">school</span>. </sentence><sentence id="147">What was it like? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="151">A: It was only Jewish. </sentence><sentence id="152">We were girls and boys in the <span class="building">class</span>. </sentence><sentence id="153">And I liked it. </sentence><sentence id="154">It was a nice <span class="building">school</span>. </sentence><sentence id="155">I just, I just remember now that it was Chanukah time. </sentence><sentence id="156">I remember learning the "Ma'oz Tzur"!in <span class="building">class</span>. </sentence><sentence id="157">And I remember just one instance that -- you know, although we weren't religious, but it was still when you sat in <span class="country">Denmark</span> in those days, you had to sit with your hands folded like when you were quiet. </sentence><sentence id="158">But being it was a <span class="building">Jewish school</span> and we shouldn't make a cross, "Ma'oz Tzur Yeshu'ati [Stronghold and Rock of My Salvation] (Hebrew); popular Chanukah song. </sentence><sentence id="159">we sat with our hands without, without folding them, like this. </sentence><sentence id="160">It was just a, a little memory, but it was interesting. </sentence><sentence id="161">And we went to <span class="building">school</span>, I think it was from eight to two, like all other <span class="building">schools</span>. </sentence><sentence id="162">And I don't know if we learned Hebrew. </sentence><sentence id="163"><span class="country">Denmark</span> is really not a religious -- even the Jews weren't religious in those days, but it was a <span class="building">Jewish school</span>. </sentence><sentence id="164">I, I remember some of my friends. </sentence><sentence id="165">I remember one friend from the class kept saying -- this was only in like 1941 or "42 -- that she heard rumors that the Germans were going to do something to the Jews. </sentence><sentence id="166">But that was like a year before it really happened that there were big <span class="spatial object">boats</span> waiting in the <span class="dlf">harbor</span> to take the Jews. </sentence><sentence id="167">But we sort of didn't believe her. </sentence><sentence id="168">It proved to be right in the long run, but this was like a year before. </sentence><sentence id="169">One of my classmates-- </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="192">Q: What was your impression, as a child, of the Germans? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="194">A: Well, nothing at all oppressive. </sentence><sentence id="195">I have no -- we didn't know what was going on the world and the Germans did nothing to the Jews. </sentence><sentence id="196">My father had an open <span class="building">store</span> with our name. </sentence><sentence id="197">My maiden name is Schonbaum, which is sort of Jewish or German. </sentence><sentence id="198">And he had a, you know, <span class="building">store</span> with his name on and it was going on, and nothing at all happened to the Jews. </sentence><sentence id="199">We went to <span class="building">Jewish schools</span>. </sentence><sentence id="200">All, all <span class="building">Christian schools</span>, whatever <span class="building">public schools</span>, whatever. </sentence><sentence id="201">I mean maybe because I was so young. </sentence><sentence id="202">Maybe my husband has different memories, but I don't remember anything negative at all about the occupation. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="212">Q: What did you and your friends do to play, say after <span class="building">school</span>? </sentence><sentence id="213">Did you go to ballet lessons? </sentence><sentence id="214">Did you take piano lessons? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="218">A: I did, yeah. </sentence><sentence id="219">But I don't know now if I am thinking if it was after we came back from <span class="country">Sweden</span> or before. </sentence><sentence id="220">But I did a lot. </sentence><sentence id="221">I went to tap dancing, acrobatics -- yes, acrobatics in Danish. </sentence><sentence id="222">I took dancing lessons after <span class="building">school</span>. </sentence><sentence id="223">We went skiing. </sentence><sentence id="224">You know there are not that many <span class="env feature">hills</span> in <span class="country">Denmark</span>, but we went with a <span class="spatial object">train</span>. </sentence><sentence id="225">We went to small <span class="env feature">hills</span>. </sentence><sentence id="226">I had a very good childhood. </sentence><sentence id="227">I played tennis. </sentence><sentence id="228">My father was an avid tennis player so we would always rent <span class="building">houses</span> at the <span class="env feature">beach</span> where there were <span class="dlf">tennis courts</span>. </sentence><sentence id="229">And we always had a maid and I just remember everything as being very pleasant and nice. </sentence><sentence id="230">Some of the memories are, I am sure, from when we came back, because you have to remember I was young when we fled. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="244">Q: When did you get a sense of something changing? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="246">A: Only the day we heard that we shouldn't go <span class="building">home</span> that night. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="248">Q: Tell me what happened. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="250">A: Well, we were told, I think it came from the <span class="building">synagogue</span>, from the Rabbi. </sentence><sentence id="251">He had heard that the Germans were going to round up the Jews. </sentence><sentence id="252">It was on a Friday night and we shouldn't -- none of us should go <span class="building">home</span> to our <span class="interior space">apartments</span> or <span class="building">houses</span>. </sentence><sentence id="253">And I remember we had a maid and she just took care of the <span class="interior space">apartment</span>. </sentence><sentence id="254">She stayed <span class="building">home</span>, and we went. </sentence><sentence id="255">I remember, my father, mother, sister and I and an uncle who was married to a non-Jew, he also wanted to flee with us, and his wife stayed <span class="building">home</span> -- stayed in their <span class="interior space">apartment</span> because they wouldn't -- they weren't going to touch, touch the non-Jews. </sentence><sentence id="256">So the five of us -- 1 remember, I -- we put on two, two dresses and a toothbrush in the pocket. </sentence><sentence id="257">That's all we fled with. </sentence><sentence id="258">And we went and....Would you like to hear about how we fled? </sentence><sentence id="259">We went to the <span class="spatial object">train</span>. </sentence><sentence id="260">No. </sentence><sentence id="261">First -- I remember -- first, we knew it would cost to flee. </sentence><sentence id="262">We would have to pay. </sentence><sentence id="263">We knew that fisherman were going to charge about 2,000 crowns a head. </sentence><sentence id="264">That's what we were told. </sentence><sentence id="265">So my father took a <span class="spatial object">cab</span>. </sentence><sentence id="266">On the same day in <span class="populated place">Copenhagen</span> he went to the <span class="building">bank</span> and he took money out and I remember he brought my mother also. </sentence><sentence id="267">We were told that we shouldn't take money to <span class="country">Sweden</span> because we weren't going to use them. </sentence><sentence id="268">And he bought a bracelet, as a matter of fact, for my mother. </sentence><sentence id="269">And when I was 50, she sent me -- she send it to me. </sentence><sentence id="270">And this is the one that she sent me. </sentence><sentence id="271">And that is what he bought and I saw it had gotten smaller, narrower, but I thought maybe as a child I remember it as being bigger. </sentence><sentence id="272">But now that my mother passed away two years ago and I inherit the other bracelet which is exactly the same, but just much wider. </sentence><sentence id="273">I have that at <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="274">But I remember that. </sentence><sentence id="275">He went to the <span class="building">bank</span>, took the money, bought bracelet for my mother and the rest of the money he took in his pocket to pay the fisherman. </sentence><sentence id="276">And then he went <span class="building">home</span> and we all got dressed and like I said, we had two dresses on. </sentence><sentence id="277">It was October so I guess a <span class="spatial object">coat</span> you would wear. </sentence><sentence id="278">Remember was two dresses instead of one. </sentence><sentence id="279">And my father probably had two <span class="spatial object">suits</span>. </sentence><sentence id="280">That I don't remember, but my sister and I had two dresses on and a -- we each had a toothbrush. </sentence><sentence id="281">We bought new toothbrushes and put in our pockets and then we went to the <span class="building">train station</span>. </sentence><sentence id="282">And strangely enough, nobody stopped us. </sentence><sentence id="283">Not the Germans either. </sentence><sentence id="284">I mean you could see people coming out on the <span class="spatial object">train</span> and there was no, no, no--nobody stopped us and we went up from <span class="populated place">Copenhagen</span> to <span class="populated place">Snekkersten</span>, which is a place that's closest at the <span class="env feature">seashore</span> to <span class="country">Sweden</span>. </sentence><sentence id="285">I mean, my father took care of everything. </sentence><sentence id="286">We were kids. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="326">Q: Sure. </sentence><sentence id="327">What do you remember of that <span class="spatial object">train</span> ride? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="330">A: I remember sitting there and being a little scared, but I didn't really know what being scared meant because we hadn't experienced anything bad. </sentence><sentence id="331">So it was a little bit of an excitement for me. </sentence><sentence id="332">And I also think we did have one <span class="spatial object">suitcase</span> along, but I am not 100 percent sure. </sentence><sentence id="333">But I just knew that nobody stopped us. </sentence><sentence id="334">Nobody came over and there were no Germans on the <span class="spatial object">train</span> to inspect it. </sentence><sentence id="335">Later on, you see all these stories of people being asked to show passports. </sentence><sentence id="336">It wasn't -- didn't happen. </sentence><sentence id="337">The only thing that happened was, while we were away that they would -- they came to our <span class="interior space">apartment</span> to ask for us. </sentence><sentence id="338">That I know and I know that our maid said when she opened the <span class="dlf">door</span>. </sentence><sentence id="339">They knocked, Friday night, on the <span class="dlf">door</span>. </sentence><sentence id="340">We weren't <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="341">This is just what we heard. </sentence><sentence id="342">They knocked on everybody's <span class="dlf">door</span>. </sentence><sentence id="343">They had a list from the <span class="building">synagogue</span> about all the Jews, where we lived and she said -- when she opened and asked for us, she said, "They wouldn't be so stupid to stay <span class="building">home</span>." </sentence><sentence id="344">And she just closed the <span class="dlf">door</span>. </sentence><sentence id="345">They didn't go in. </sentence><sentence id="346">They didn't -- maybe they went in to look, but they didn't take anything from the <span class="interior space">apartment</span>. </sentence><sentence id="347">They left everything intact. </sentence><sentence id="348">And as a matter of fact, I don't know if I am wondering if I should continue. </sentence><sentence id="349">My father had bought a <span class="building">house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="350">We lived in an <span class="interior space">apartment</span> in the <span class="populated place">suburb</span> of <span class="country">Denmark</span> [<span class="populated place">Copenhagen</span>], and he had bought a <span class="building">house</span> meanwhile. </sentence><sentence id="351">But we didn't get to move into it and when, when we came back from <span class="country">Sweden</span>, we moved into the <span class="building">house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="352">It was furnished and everything and he rented it out to a woman before we left, and that woman married a German soldier or Kommandant." </sentence><sentence id="353">So when we came <span class="building">home</span> from <span class="country">Sweden</span> -- my memories are coming back now -- there were Hitler's picture all over the <span class="dlf">wall</span>. </sentence><sentence id="354">And the movers were, you know, like the Danish movers, they kicked and it was like they kicked all the pictures down from the <span class="dlf">wall</span> and you know they were very angry. </sentence><sentence id="355">But otherwise the <span class="building">house</span> was standing and, you know, a lot of <span class="spatial object">furniture</span> was there and then we moved into when we came back from <span class="country">Sweden</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="383">Q: Okay. </sentence><sentence id="384">Let's go back to the <span class="spatial object">train</span> ride. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="387">A: Meanwhile, let's go back to the <span class="spatial object">train</span> ride. </sentence><sentence id="388">We were on the <span class="spatial object">train</span> ride. </sentence><sentence id="389">It takes about 30 minutes, the <span class="spatial object">train</span> ride from <span class="populated place">Copenhagen</span> to <span class="populated place">Snekkersten</span>. </sentence><sentence id="390">I don't know why my father knew to get off at from <span class="populated place">Snekkersten</span>. </sentence><sentence id="391">He didn't know anybody there except that he was closest to <span class="country">Sweden</span>, and we got off the <span class="building">train station</span>, went down the <span class="dlf">stairs</span>, you know, out off the <span class="spatial object">train</span> and a man comes to us. </sentence><sentence id="392">Tall, I don't remember his face exactly. </sentence><sentence id="393">He was -- he looked he would be about 40 years old at that time. </sentence><sentence id="394">And he said, "I know why you are here. </sentence><sentence id="395">I am Mr. Bagge, Herr Bagge.* </sentence><sentence id="396">Please come with me." </sentence><sentence id="397">And we just followed him and we came into a big white <span class="building">house</span> and he said, "Just stay with me. </sentence><sentence id="398">I'll take care of you "til we find you a <span class="spatial object">fishing boat</span> to take you to <span class="country">Sweden</span>." </sentence><sentence id="399">And he took about a week. </sentence><sentence id="400">We stayed there and you know, we had -- it was <span class="interior space">upstairs</span>. </sentence><sentence id="401">We stayed in his <span class="building">house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="402">And everyday -- my father's blond so he didn't look Jewish, so he and Mr. Bagge would go -- I mean my mother and I were dark or I wouldn't have gone. </sentence><sentence id="403">But my father was blond and he went with Mr. Bagge every day down to the -- to see if you could get a <span class="spatial object">fishing boat</span> to take us to <span class="country">Sweden</span>. </sentence><sentence id="404">You know, you had to get a man that would take us and pay and everything. </sentence><sentence id="405">And it was hard because everybody was trying to flee at the same time. </sentence><sentence id="406">And one day my father came <span class="building">home</span> and said he got a <span class="spatial object">rowboat</span> instead. </sentence><sentence id="407">He couldn't get a <span class="spatial object">fishing boat</span>. </sentence><sentence id="408">He got a <span class="spatial object">rowboat</span>. </sentence><sentence id="409">So we would go that night. </sentence><sentence id="410">And we all got dressed and were ready to leave and then he didn't come to pick us, the man. </sentence><sentence id="411">And they said that --I think he did come and he shows his hands and they had big blisters on it from the night before and he couldn't row again he said. </sentence><sentence id="412">So we couldn't go. </sentence><sentence id="413">And then, I think it took one or two more days, my father came back and he said -- I mean, he came back every time with Mr. Bagge -- that they found somebody would take us the next day at three o'clock. </sentence><sentence id="414">It was during the day, which itself was strange that we were able to flee during the day, but I was told later on that the Germans were paid off. </sentence><sentence id="415">So, the Germans that were guarding the <span class="dlf">harbor</span>, it was a <span class="dlf">harbor</span>, wouldn't say anything. </sentence><sentence id="416">So that day we just walked down from Mr.Bagge's <span class="building">house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="417">I remember when we left, I remember his <span class="interior space">kitchen</span> had a big <span class="dlf">picture window</span> > Commander (German) > Mr. Bagge (Danish) and he turned around and he cried and he just hoped we would get over there safely. </sentence><sentence id="418">He was such a wonderful man. </sentence><sentence id="419">I mean he risked his life and he didn't do it just for us. </sentence><sentence id="420">He did it, lots of people went through his <span class="building">house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="421">And every October second -- we fled October second, and that day my father would always send him a present in silver to commemorate the day. </sentence><sentence id="422">I just heard that he had died now. </sentence><sentence id="423">But I don't know when, but he died an old man. </sentence><sentence id="424">But he really saved many, many people. </sentence><sentence id="425">So we walked down to the <span class="spatial object">fishing boat</span> and I remember was the going down -- you know this <span class="spatial object">fishing boat</span> has where the fish is usually <span class="dlf">square opening</span>? </sentence><sentence id="426">We went way <span class="interior space">downstairs</span> and we were with 14 people. </sentence><sentence id="427">It took more than us, and it was a family that I knew and I met the children. </sentence><sentence id="428">They were the same age as me. </sentence><sentence id="429">I just met them in <span class="country">Israel</span>. </sentence><sentence id="430">Their name was Marcus. </sentence><sentence id="431">I remember and they had an old aunt along and she -- I remember her putting her foot down, in the <span class="spatial object">fishing boat</span> to go down and she said, "Oh, I forgot my <span class="spatial object">umbrella</span>. </sentence><sentence id="432">I have to go <span class="building">home</span> and get it." </sentence><sentence id="433">And my father took her leg and pulled it down and said, "You are not going back <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="434">We are leaving." </sentence><sentence id="435">And, and then we all sat around, you know, was very dark down there, and they closed up the, the opening of the <span class="spatial object">boat</span> and then the fisherman came on board and we left. </sentence><sentence id="436">And I remember everybody being seasick and I was a little child. </sentence><sentence id="437">I mean how old I was in "40? </sentence><sentence id="438">Six years old? </sentence><sentence id="439">And I remember I was so proud of myself. </sentence><sentence id="440">I was the only one not being seasick. </sentence><sentence id="441">And we stayed very quietly and the <span class="spatial object">boat</span> went out. </sentence><sentence id="442">And when we were in the middle of the <span class="env feature">ocean</span> between <span class="country">Sweden</span> -- it was about 30 minutes into <span class="country">Sweden</span> -- between <span class="country">Sweden</span> and <span class="country">Denmark</span>, a big <span class="spatial object">boat</span> came and we were afraid it was Germans because there were soldiers on it. </sentence><sentence id="443">They were dressed -- they looked just like Germans. </sentence><sentence id="444">But it was a <span class="spatial object">Swedish patrol boat</span> that came to pick us up. </sentence><sentence id="445">They came in <span class="env feature">Swedish waters</span>. </sentence><sentence id="446">They were allowed to go out and the Germans couldn't.... And then we were safe. </sentence><sentence id="447">The Germans couldn't do anything. </sentence><sentence id="448">They came a big <span class="spatial object">boat</span> and they helped us up from the <span class="spatial object">fishing boat</span> and we stayed on the <span class="interior space">deck</span>. </sentence><sentence id="449">Then we were, we were saved. </sentence><sentence id="450">And we went into a little <span class="dlf">harbor</span> in <span class="country">Sweden</span>. </sentence><sentence id="451">I think it was right outside of <span class="populated place">Helsingborg</span>. </sentence><sentence id="452">Yeah, <span class="populated place">Helsingborg</span>. </sentence><sentence id="453">And, you know, they're welcoming us; and they all look like Germans because the Swedes -- they were wearing the same dresses and we came in and we got coffee, tea and they told us where we could stay. </sentence><sentence id="454">They put us actually in the <span class="building">Grand Hotel</span>. </sentence><sentence id="455">It's called the <span class="building">Grand Hotel</span>. </sentence><sentence id="456">They paid for the <span class="interior space">suites</span>, paid for everything and they said we could stay there "til if we had any relatives in <span class="country">Sweden</span> we could go to them. </sentence><sentence id="457">I think we stayed about a week. </sentence><sentence id="458">Every day my parents would go down to the <span class="dlf">harbor</span> to see if my grandparents had come. </sentence><sentence id="459">They will still -- and an old aunt I had, my grandfather's sister, they were still in <span class="country">Denmark</span> when we fled. </sentence><sentence id="460">And a few days later, four, five days later they came on another <span class="spatial object">fishing boat</span>. </sentence><sentence id="461">I am not sure where they came from, but I know that everyday my parents went down to hear if they had come. </sentence><sentence id="462">And we were all saved. </sentence><sentence id="463">And we stayed in the <span class="building">hotel</span>, until my father -- my mother had relatives, an uncle in <span class="populated place">MalmG</span>, so we went to them. </sentence><sentence id="464">And I remember in that <span class="interior space">apartment</span> there were lots of other Danes, relatives and I remember we slept on one of these <span class="spatial object">beds</span> you pull out for two, and we slept all four in them. </sentence><sentence id="465">And, and the only sad thing I remember from there was -- remember I was only six or seven -- that the other children that were there, they had some relatives that bought them a little doll and I didn't get a doll. </sentence><sentence id="466">I remember still that I was very unhappy I didn't get that doll. </sentence><sentence id="467">But we stayed with this family. </sentence><sentence id="468">You see my father was young. </sentence><sentence id="469">My father must have been at that time when he's born in 1906 so he was 30, 40 years old at that time. </sentence><sentence id="470">He got out and got a job. </sentence><sentence id="471">First, he got an <span class="interior space">apartment</span> for us, "cause he had some money along, and he got us an <span class="interior space">apartment</span> -- "Vastergatan," small <span class="interior space">apartment</span>. </sentence><sentence id="472">I remember we had to buy it furnished with real junky, <span class="spatial object">furniture</span> we bought it and we stayed there. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="564">Q: Where did your father get the money? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="566">A: Well, he had money. </sentence><sentence id="567">Well, he had taken some money along, but actually it cost 2,000 for every -- we paid 8,000, 10,000 crowns for the five of us. </sentence><sentence id="568">I remember my uncle was there too. </sentence><sentence id="569">But I think that they did give us money. </sentence><sentence id="570">That's right. </sentence><sentence id="571">The Swedes gave us money. </sentence><sentence id="572">They gave us coupons to eat so we could go into a beautiful <span class="building">restaurant</span> to eat. </sentence><sentence id="573">And they gave us money, pocket money until we got ourselves -- I mean they were wonderful, the Swedes -- "til we got ourselves established. </sentence><sentence id="574">My father got a job right away selling artificial teeth. </sentence><sentence id="575">He would travel. </sentence><sentence id="576">I remember the little package with the teeth and he would travel and come <span class="building">home</span> and he got, you know, salary for that. </sentence><sentence id="577">My mother got a job in a <span class="building">store</span>. </sentence><sentence id="578">What is that called? </sentence><sentence id="579">With women's clothes, lingerie? </sentence><sentence id="580">These were Swedish people either that we knew before. </sentence><sentence id="581">I think that my parents must have known them. </sentence><sentence id="582">And my sister got a job. </sentence><sentence id="583">My sister was five years older. </sentence><sentence id="584">I think she was watching children, little children. </sentence><sentence id="585">And I, I just played and we lived in that <span class="interior space">apartment</span> the whole -- in <span class="populated place">Vastergatan</span> -- during the war we lived. </sentence><sentence id="586">We moved and then we moved away from our relatives moved into the <span class="interior space">apartment</span>. </sentence><sentence id="587">Now I know my father -- the first job was not with the artificial teeth. </sentence><sentence id="588">The first job was in a chocolates -- <span class="building">chocolate factory</span> called <span class="building">Mazetti</span>. </sentence><sentence id="589">It is a very famous <span class="building">Swedish chocolate factory</span>. </sentence><sentence id="590">And they would always give him chocolate when he left to go <span class="building">home</span> to us every day to the -- you know they always call us the "flykting,*" in Swedish. " </sentence><sentence id="591">Flykting," which means, "the refugees." </sentence><sentence id="592">And they were very nice to us. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="620">Q: What did you do as a child at this point? </sentence><sentence id="621">You are in <span class="country">Sweden</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="624">A: In <span class="country">Sweden</span>? </sentence><sentence id="625">Well, the first -- I don't remember when they made the <span class="building">Swedish school</span>, but I would say at the first half year I just played. </sentence><sentence id="626">I didn't -- my best friend I remember had another <span class="interior space">apartment</span>. </sentence><sentence id="627">Her parents had another <span class="interior space">apartment</span>. </sentence><sentence id="628">At the same <span class="dlf">street</span> they rented another <span class="interior space">apartment</span>. </sentence><sentence id="629">We would get together to play and -- so, I didn't do anything "til they started opening a <span class="building">school</span> in <span class="country">Sweden</span>, a <span class="building">Danish school</span> in <span class="populated place">Lund</span>. </sentence><sentence id="630">I think it was after we had been there a few months or maybe even half a year. </sentence><sentence id="631">They opened the <span class="building">school</span> and I would go and I went into third grade. </sentence><sentence id="632">And my sister was five grades ahead of me. </sentence><sentence id="633">And then we would go everyday to <span class="building">school</span> like in <span class="country">Denmark</span>. </sentence><sentence id="634">They would make it with the Principal was Danish. </sentence><sentence id="635">Her name was Lachman. </sentence><sentence id="636">And there was another very good teacher. </sentence><sentence id="637">His name was Bertelsen. </sentence><sentence id="638">He * Refugee (Danish) wrote a book later on about it. </sentence><sentence id="639">He wrote a book called October 2, 1943. </sentence><sentence id="640">Aage Bertelsen. </sentence><sentence id="641">He was a head teacher, the headmaster. </sentence><sentence id="642">And she was the Principal. </sentence><sentence id="643">And we went to a little -- I went to a little <span class="building">school</span>. </sentence><sentence id="644">It was like a <span class="building">school</span> and a big <span class="building">school</span>, probably like <span class="building">elementary</span> and more of a <span class="building">high school</span>. </sentence><sentence id="645">And it was very pleasant. </sentence><sentence id="646">It was a 20-minute ride with a <span class="spatial object">train</span> to <span class="populated place">VAstergatan</span>, from <span class="populated place">Malme</span> to <span class="populated place">Lund</span>. </sentence><sentence id="647">And we had regular <span class="building">school</span> -- we work. </sentence><sentence id="648">And my sister, of course, stopped working also. </sentence><sentence id="649">She went to <span class="building">school</span>. </sentence><sentence id="650">She went to -- it's called <span class="building">mellemskole</span>,deg the <span class="building">middle school</span>. </sentence><sentence id="651">Probably like ninth or 10th grade. </sentence><sentence id="652">And I remember for lunch, they had a place where we all would go to eat. </sentence><sentence id="653">It would be for kosher and non-kosher. </sentence><sentence id="654">A big place! </sentence><sentence id="655">And I also remember I had piano lessons in <span class="country">Sweden</span> after hours, I remember. </sentence><sentence id="656">So we lived a pretty regular life. </sentence><sentence id="657">And then my father got this other job, which was better paid, I guess, working for his friends selling teeth. </sentence><sentence id="658">That he did the rest of the, of the occupation. </sentence><sentence id="659">And, I mean, life went on. </sentence><sentence id="660">It was a very good time for us. </sentence><sentence id="661">There was nothing, no hardship. </sentence><sentence id="662">We, you know, they -- like they gave us money "til we could -- very soon my father, you know, got the job, and my mother. </sentence><sentence id="663">We didn't need to get any money from <span class="country">Sweden</span>. </sentence><sentence id="664">And also a very strange thing is that my father's business in <span class="country">Denmark</span> continued, with a Jewish name, continued going, and they sent us money over. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="708">Q: How did they do that? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="710">A: I don't know how they sent the money. </sentence><sentence id="711">I just know that the Germans did not touch any <span class="building">Jewish store</span>, any <span class="building">Jewish home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="712">Everything stood intact and went on as before, which is very strange even after they, you know, so to speak got rid of all the Jews. </sentence><sentence id="713">I don't know how they sent money over, but they did. </sentence><sentence id="714">Curious. </sentence><sentence id="715">I really don't know. </sentence><sentence id="716">And I know that it went on and my father's -- all his employees -- he had like about 20 people working for him -- and they all took care of it and they were very honest. </sentence><sentence id="717">They sent money over or kept it. </sentence><sentence id="718">| mean there was no stealing, no looting. </sentence><sentence id="719">You know, wasn't -- the Danes are good people. </sentence><sentence id="720">They didn't only save us. </sentence><sentence id="721">They saved our things. </sentence><sentence id="722">Saved our things. </sentence><sentence id="723">So, like I said, it was, it was not a bad life in <span class="country">Sweden</span> for us. </sentence><sentence id="724">It was a good life </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="740">Q: Did you hear at all about what was going on in <span class="country">Denmark</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="742">A: In <span class="country">Denmark</span>, not so much. </sentence><sentence id="743">We didn't know the bad things that were going on in the world or.... No, I don't think anybody believed it or knew it. </sentence><sentence id="744">No. </sentence><sentence id="745">That's why we weren't really afraid either when the Germans were occupying <span class="country">Denmark</span>. </sentence><sentence id="746">We weren't scared because we never.... I don't think we knew or maybe because I was so young, I didn't know. </sentence><sentence id="747">But I don't think we knew what was going on in the world at all. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="754">Q: What -- you are in <span class="country">Sweden</span>. </sentence><sentence id="755">You are going to <span class="building">school</span>. </sentence><sentence id="756">By then you would have been seven, </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="760"> > <span class="building">Middle school</span> (Danish) </sentence></p><p><sentence id="761"> eight, nine. </sentence><sentence id="762">You didn't hear anything about what was happening, about even in terms of <span class="country">Denmark</span>, their attempts to round up the Jews? </sentence><sentence id="763">You didn't know about any of that? </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="764">A: No. </sentence><sentence id="765">No. </sentence><sentence id="766">Well, we knew they were going to -- that they were attempting and we knew that 99 percent of the Jews were saved, because we knew -- you know, we met people and, and the only ones that were taken were the ones that didn't believe it and stayed <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="767">Which was about 400 people. </sentence><sentence id="768">And those 400 people were all sort of taken care of specially. </sentence><sentence id="769">I don't know if you want to hear about that, but they weren't.... No. </sentence><sentence id="770">Where they went -- no, that's not- </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="778">Q: No. </sentence><sentence id="779">What we want is just your story at this point. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="782">A: Right. </sentence><sentence id="783">Well, I mean my whole family was saved. </sentence><sentence id="784">My grandparents, they also went to <span class="populated place">Malme</span>. </sentence><sentence id="785">They lived there in an <span class="interior space">apartment</span>. </sentence><sentence id="786">My mother's parents and my mother's brothers and sisters with their family. </sentence><sentence id="787">Everybody was saved and they all lived either in <span class="populated place">Malm</span> or in <span class="populated place">Stockholm</span>. </sentence><sentence id="788">Somebody lived near <span class="populated place">Lund</span>. </sentence><sentence id="789">And we got together with them, and we had like a normal life there. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="798">Q: Did your parents or did any member of your family that you know of have any connections or involvement with the resistance or with any groups that were? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="800">A: Well, my father became a brigadier. </sentence><sentence id="801">| think it's called a brigadier -- Brigade(r) in Danish. </sentence><sentence id="802">He was 40 years old and they, they trained them in <span class="country">Sweden</span>. </sentence><sentence id="803">They trained them to go back when the <span class="country">Germany</span> -- when they, when they capitulated. </sentence><sentence id="804">When they knew that it was going towards the end of the war and they were going to send them back to help round up the Germans and so my -- the minute the war was over, my father left with the whole battalion of soldiers. </sentence><sentence id="805">And we stayed in <span class="country">Sweden</span>. </sentence><sentence id="806">We didn't go back to <span class="country">Denmark</span> "til May 28th. </sentence><sentence id="807">The war was over May fifth, I believe. </sentence><sentence id="808"><span class="country">Germany</span> gave up. </sentence><sentence id="809">But we stayed "til, you know -- I guess we all, all the Danes went back on one big <span class="spatial object">boat</span> to <span class="country">Sweden</span> -- to <span class="country">Denmark</span>, on May 28. </sentence><sentence id="810">And I remember that very well. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="822">Q: Describe that trip. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="824">A: That trip -- I just remember standing on this tremendous <span class="spatial object">boat</span>, being very happy going back. </sentence><sentence id="825">You know, this was just my mother and my sister and I. And I remember when we came towards the <span class="env feature">shore</span>, all the Danes -- millions of Danes, thousands of Danes were standing there with red and white flags, the <span class="spatial object">Dannebrog</span>" waving, welcoming us back. </sentence><sentence id="826">And they were wonderful all the way. </sentence><sentence id="827">And I just remember we went to, to the <span class="building">house</span> we had my father had bought before the war. </sentence><sentence id="828">And that's why I remember all, all these pictures that were broken on the <span class="interior space">floor</span> from German soldiers and, and I also know my sister stayed back because she deg Brigadier, general (Danish) T Danish flag (Danish) stayed for another month to graduate. </sentence><sentence id="829">She was in a <span class="building">middle school</span> where you had "til --I guess it's like <span class="building">high school</span> here. </sentence><sentence id="830">So, in order to graduate they had to finish the year. </sentence><sentence id="831">So they -- she stayed. </sentence><sentence id="832">I think they went to <span class="populated place">Lund</span> and stayed there. </sentence><sentence id="833">It was like about 30 people, from that class, that had to stay. </sentence><sentence id="834">And when she came back her classmates from <span class="building">school</span> came to welcome her in the <span class="building">house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="835">I remember that. </sentence><sentence id="836">She -- in our <span class="building">house</span> and they came all over to welcome her back. </sentence><sentence id="837">And-- </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="855">Q: What was the--? </sentence><sentence id="856">You came back to <span class="country">Denmark</span>. </sentence><sentence id="857">You found this <span class="building">house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="858">Did you go to your <span class="interior space">apartment</span>, as well? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="863">A: No, because my father had bought it before and I think that the maid probably had moved all the <span class="spatial object">furniture</span> or I am not sure. </sentence><sentence id="864">But we never went to the <span class="interior space">apartment</span>. </sentence><sentence id="865">That was rented out. </sentence><sentence id="866">But all our stuff was completely where we -- nothing was stolen. </sentence><sentence id="867">And I know my father had a <span class="spatial object">car</span> before the war. </sentence><sentence id="868">It was still standing there. </sentence><sentence id="869">And his <span class="building">business</span> was still running, with the same foreman and same people working there. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="877">Q: Did he get his business back? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="879">A: Yeah. </sentence><sentence id="880">He just, he just started back. </sentence><sentence id="881">And it was just running as if he had been there, there all the time. </sentence><sentence id="882">Which was strange, that they -- it was strange that the German's didn't close down the <span class="building">Jewish businesses</span>. </sentence><sentence id="883">They didn't. </sentence><sentence id="884">And I started <span class="building">school</span>, and then I must start in a new <span class="building">school</span>. </sentence><sentence id="885">I went to a <span class="building">public school</span> then, in the fourth grade. </sentence><sentence id="886">Fourth, fifth grade I stayed there. </sentence><sentence id="887">And, you know, everybody was asking us, "What happened in <span class="country">Sweden</span>? </sentence><sentence id="888">How were you're experiences?" </sentence><sentence id="889">And everybody was curious. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="901">Q: Did you either before or after the war, what did it feel like being Jewish particularly in <span class="country">Denmark</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="903">A: Well, there was no-- the way I look at it, there was no difference between being Jewish and not Jewish. </sentence><sentence id="904">And I did not come from a religious background so maybe I never felt anything and I remember very -- I mean today I feel differently, but I remember standing outside our <span class="building">house</span> with some friends. </sentence><sentence id="905">We had just been going to <span class="building">dance class</span> and we were discussing whether one should marry -- one should stay and marry only Jewish people, and they all felt sure, and they were not Jewish. </sentence><sentence id="906">I remember they were saying that they felt that Jews should marry Jews. </sentence><sentence id="907">And I say, ""Why you marry? </sentence><sentence id="908">You are in love with them." </sentence><sentence id="909">This is my background I guess. </sentence><sentence id="910">You don't marry for religion. </sentence><sentence id="911">You marry. </sentence><sentence id="912">But we really did not feel any difference, there was -- of being Jewish or not Jewish in <span class="country">Denmark</span> didn't. </sentence><sentence id="913">My husband might tell you different stories. </sentence><sentence id="914">I don't know -- because he comes from a religious background. </sentence><sentence id="915">So it's different. </sentence><sentence id="916">But I, I didn't feel any discrimination ever. </sentence><sentence id="917">Never heard the word "Jew" said. </sentence><sentence id="918">And I went to -- well, the first few years I went to <span class="building">Jewish schools</span> and when I came back, I was -- there was one more boy that was Jewish in the class. </sentence><sentence id="919">When I went to the <span class="building">higher schools</span>, there was another girl. </sentence><sentence id="920">I went to an all girls" <span class="building">school</span> then from sixth grade "til I graduated. </sentence><sentence id="921">And there were two Jews in the <span class="building">class</span>: me and another girl. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="942">Q: Did you feel any difference because there were only two of you? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="944">A: No, I never even thought -- it's just that I knew her and I knew her family, that I know she was Jewish. </sentence><sentence id="945">But no, I never felt anything different between being Jewish and not Jewish. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="948">Q: What was it like immediately after the war in <span class="country">Denmark</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="950">A: How I remember that, we couldn't get chocolate. </sentence><sentence id="951">Because I knew my father would buy things that nobody could get, so he would like buy -- you know, it was rationing, and he would get it for us. </sentence><sentence id="952">But it was not a hard life. </sentence><sentence id="953">We went to <span class="building">school</span> and just <span class="spatial object">classes</span> -- 1 know people didn't have as many <span class="spatial object">cars</span> as we do now. </sentence><sentence id="954">I would go by <span class="spatial object">bicycle</span> to <span class="building">school</span> always, like everybody else. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="960">Q: Is there anything you want to add? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="962">A: No, not really. </sentence><sentence id="963">Except that I love the Danes and I think the best part that happened to me, is that I'm Danish. </sentence><sentence id="964">I've always been -- I feel very fortunate to be born there and I love the <span class="country">country</span>. </sentence><sentence id="965">What they did for the Jews, the way they -- later on I realized what other <span class="country">countries</span> had done to their people, and I realized that it was not that the Germans were better in <span class="country">Denmark</span>, it was because the Danes were better. </sentence><sentence id="966">So, I think that should be known always, never forgotten. </sentence><sentence id="967">Alright? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="974">Q: Thank you very much. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="976">A: You're welcome. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="978">Q: That's it. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="980"> [Conclusion of interview] </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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</body> |
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