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layout: transcript |
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interviewee: michael none bernath |
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rg_number: rg-50.030.0022 |
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pdf_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/oh_findingaids/rg-50.030.0022_trs_en.pdf |
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ushmm_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn504465 |
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gender: m |
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birth_date: 1923-02-14 |
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birth_year: 1923.0 |
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place_of_birth: szikszo |
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country: hungary |
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experience_group: survivor,resistance |
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ghetto(s)_encyclopedia: none |
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ghetto: none |
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camp(s)_encyclopedia: none |
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camp: none |
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non_ss_camp: none |
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region: none |
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needs_research: checked |
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data_entry: gg |
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accession: 1990.365.1 |
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revisit: none |
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tags: transcripts |
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<body><dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="1">MICHAEL BERNATH March 22, 1990 [Technical conversation] </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="4">Q: Would you tell me your full name please? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="6"> A My name, my name is Michael, Miklos, Bernath. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="8">Q: Where and when were you born? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="10">A: I was born in <span class="populated place">Sziksz6</span>, <span class="populated place">Abatj-Torna Varmegye</span>," in <span class="country">Hungary</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="12">Q: What year? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="14">A: I was born in February the 14, 1923. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="16">Q: Tell me about your parents and about your family. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="18">A: Well, my parents, my parents -- when my mother -- my father was 50 years old when I was born and my mother was 46 and we were 12 children all together. </sentence><sentence id="19">We were three girls and, and, and nine boys. </sentence><sentence id="20">I was the youngest between them. </sentence><sentence id="21">And as a child I remember when I was about six or seven years old, I didn't even know I'm Jewish that -- till I-- the first time I went to -- we had a <span class="building">soccer stadium</span> in our <span class="populated place">village</span>. </sentence><sentence id="22">The <span class="populated place">shtetl</span>, we used to call them. </sentence><sentence id="23">And as I was, as I was going to the football game as a little boy, I brushed against a, a goyim, as a, as a gentile man, you know. </sentence><sentence id="24">So he call, he called me a "Jew bastard." </sentence><sentence id="25">So then I went <span class="building">home</span> and said to my mother and father, said, "They called me a "Jew bastard." </sentence><sentence id="26">You know, Hungarian. </sentence><sentence id="27">So she said to me, said "The next time don't brush against the same guy -- same man." </sentence><sentence id="28">Well, the Christians have always been antisemitic in, in <span class="country">Hungary</span> and they, they got it probably from their mother's milk. </sentence><sentence id="29">They were, they were taught in a <span class="building">Sunday School</span>, I suppose by the clergy, to hate us or whatever. </sentence><sentence id="30">To always -- used to call us I remember as kids, you know, "dirty Jews" and "Jew bastards," you know, as I was growing up. </sentence><sentence id="31">But somehow I never, I never called them anything, any names or we never taught in <span class="building">school</span> you know to, anything about to hate Christians. </sentence><sentence id="32">But nevertheless the -- I suppose the clergy for centuries and generations there, they were teaching their children in <span class="building">Sunday School</span> to be antisemitic and not just <span class="country">Hungary</span>, it was all over you know. </sentence><sentence id="33">So sometimes, you know, they used to call the old childhood words like, "sticks and stones doesn't," what you call it, "sticks and stones might hurt my bone but words never hurt me." </sentence><sentence id="34">You know, you ever heard that? </sentence><sentence id="35">So that was our philosophy you know. </sentence><sentence id="36">They can call us anything. </sentence><sentence id="37">It's what a different-- </sentence></p><p><sentence id="38"> " <span class="populated place">County</span> (Hungarian) </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="39">Q: Tell me about your, your, your childhood with your brothers and sisters. </sentence><sentence id="40">Did you play a lot? </sentence><sentence id="41">Did you go to <span class="building">school</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="42">A: Well, with children, I was the youngest and I have a brother, he was 27 year older than I, and he was -- I remember when he got married, I was three or four years old and I had a brother, his name was Joe, Joseph. </sentence><sentence id="43">He came to <span class="country">America</span> when I was, before I was born back in 1922, and I was born in 1923. </sentence><sentence id="44">And he used to send some -- sometimes he had little extra money, used to send money to <span class="building">home</span>, to <span class="country">Hungary</span> you know. </sentence><sentence id="45">And my, my father used to, he used to be a bootmaker and shoe, shoebuilder -- shoe, shoe -- you know, he used to.... But he didn't make too much money, you know, and with a lot of kids you know. </sentence><sentence id="46">But nevertheless I had a brother Hugo, he was -- he went to <span class="building">Catholic Gymnasium</span>" He wanted to be a medical doctor, and only way he could go to <span class="building">Gymnasium</span>, he went to a <span class="building">Protestant Gymnasium</span>. </sentence><sentence id="47"><span class="building">Gymnasium</span> is, you know, is like <span class="building">high school</span> you know here. </sentence><sentence id="48">So, but Jews -- they were very hard to get into those <span class="building">schools</span> you know, the, the <span class="building">parochial schools</span>, <span class="building">Catholic schools</span> for instance, but because my -- our name Bernath, it wasn't solid Jewish and we came through the name problem. </sentence><sentence id="49">But there was the money problem also, you know. </sentence><sentence id="50">So we came through the somehow the money problem and he graduated from <span class="building">Gymnasium</span> in -- he was 18 years old in <span class="populated place">Miskolc</span> and he, he applied to <span class="building">medical school</span> in <span class="populated place">Prague</span>, <span class="country">Czechoslovakia</span>, because in <span class="country">Hungary</span> the Jews couldn't get into <span class="building">med.school</span>. </sentence><sentence id="51">It was just -- it was impossible. </sentence><sentence id="52">So he applied to <span class="populated place">Prague</span>, <span class="country">Czechoslovakia</span>. </sentence><sentence id="53">He was accepted and but later on he -- after a year, he transferred himself to <span class="building">Bologna medical school</span> and first he had to learn the Czech language, then he had to learn the Italian language fluently because he had to go to med. </sentence><sentence id="54"><span class="building">school</span> you know. </sentence><sentence id="55">And beside in, in the <span class="building">gymnasium</span> they had to learn three more languages, German, Latin and English. </sentence><sentence id="56">He, my brother, was very -- he knew, he knew six, seven, eight languages, my brother. </sentence><sentence id="57">But he finished his medical studies in <span class="populated place">Bologna</span> and became a medical doctor in <span class="populated place">Bologna</span>. </sentence><sentence id="58">Well actually, <span class="populated place">Bologna</span> is the first medical -- it was the first <span class="building">medical school</span> in the world. </sentence><sentence id="59">So, he came <span class="building">home</span> and came <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="60">He worked in the -- then they accepted him. </sentence><sentence id="61">The Christians accepted him in <span class="country">Hungary</span>. </sentence><sentence id="62">Well when was finished as a doctor, then he could work in the <span class="building">hospital</span> you know. </sentence><sentence id="63">So he was working next to a surgeon and finally took him to <span class="country">Russia</span>, to a slave -- you know, <span class="populated place">slave labor camp</span>, and disappeared and in 1943, in <span class="populated place">Voronezh</span>, by the <span class="env feature">Don River</span>. </sentence><sentence id="64">I don't know if you've ever heard it -- it was a big push that time and he just disappeared and we never heard of him again. </sentence><sentence id="65">Then I had another brother, Andy. </sentence><sentence id="66">He was -- he came to the <span class="country">United States</span> in 1939, just in nick of the time. </sentence><sentence id="67">Just, with my uncle, escaped certain death you know from the.... Then we left <span class="building">home</span> just one, one brother, Sandor, and, and my two sisters, mother and father <span class="building">High school</span> (German) and all my, my aunt my aunts and cousins and most of them, most of them, they were killed -- mother and fathers, brothers, sisters, children. </sentence><sentence id="68">And one sister, Magda and I, who survived the, survived the Holocaust. </sentence><sentence id="69">So just I remembered when I, in 1943, like I told you, the antisemitism became so rampant in -- and there were Jew-haters before, but in 1943 start getting so harsh on us. </sentence><sentence id="70">And we heard the cries like from <span class="country">Czechoslovakia</span>, from <span class="country">Poland</span> -- "they're killing us," you know. </sentence><sentence id="71">We didn't -- who -- we didn't want to believe it, you know, such a, stories you know. </sentence><sentence id="72">We wanted -- thought here just rumors, you know. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="106">Q: Where you had been up to this point? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="108">A: I was -- well, I was a <span class="building">furrier</span>. </sentence><sentence id="109">I was working there because I learned to be a furrier in <span class="populated place">Miskolc</span>. </sentence><sentence id="110">And then I went to work as a full-fledged <span class="building">fur-furrier</span> in <span class="populated place">Budapest</span> and, and, and <span class="populated place">Miskolc</span>. </sentence><sentence id="111">Then of end of 1943 it was it was just, just unbearable and beginning of 1944 Jews couldn't -- we couldn't travel. </sentence><sentence id="112">It was constant harassment, you know, for identification. </sentence><sentence id="113">And when the German came in March 1944 into <span class="country">Hungary</span>, I was then 21 years old already and, and I.... So, it was just awful. </sentence><sentence id="114">And you know start getting the Jews again disappearing, getting the Jews. </sentence><sentence id="115">And the Christian population -- grown up together you know in the <span class="populated place">town</span> -- we used to know each other -- whole families you know, became so anti-Jewish you know. </sentence><sentence id="116">Our neighbors and Jewish men used to walk on the <span class="dlf">street</span>, used to -- with, with the beard, used to grab -- the Christian boys used to grab him and used to cut his, his beard through his neck. </sentence><sentence id="117">We had to see that, you know, many times. </sentence><sentence id="118">And they came to our <span class="building">houses</span> and take inventory you know of the -- we were 1,200 Jews. </sentence><sentence id="119">We lived in this little <span class="populated place">town</span> with them 5,000 people. </sentence><sentence id="120">Between 5,000 were 1,200 Jews -- women, men, children. </sentence><sentence id="121">And they took everybody's name and livestock, whatever have, you know, took inventory in the <span class="building">house</span>, and used to rob, rob everything. </sentence><sentence id="122">Their food supplies, they tell us, "You know, you don't need -- Jews, you don't need -- you Jew bastards, you don't need this anymore." </sentence><sentence id="123">So, my poor mother, you know she was she used to in desperation in desperation you know, to call the Lord to help us, you know -- "Shema Israel."" </sentence><sentence id="124">She was determined. </sentence><sentence id="125">Seventy-one years old -- my father was 71, and family looked up to my father and in his desperation looked up for, for help, you know, to Him. </sentence><sentence id="126">But he couldn't do anything. </sentence><sentence id="127">He in desperation called the Lord, "Shema Israel." </sentence><sentence id="128">Then they gathered, the first day they gathered the about three, 400 of us. </sentence><sentence id="129">I was one of them, one of the first <span class="spatial object">transport</span> because I had the, the induction papers going to the <span class="populated place">slave labor camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="130">So they gathered us three or four hundred and took us to the middle of this <span class="populated place">town</span>. </sentence><sentence id="131">It was it was in a <span class="building">government building</span>, the yar-- their <span class="dlf">yard</span>. </sentence><sentence id="132">The gendarmes, you know, the gendarmes, the gendarmes, with the bayonet fixed on the -- they took helpless children and their mother's arms and old ladies and the women, the Rabbi and they told > Hear, O <span class="country">Israel</span> (Hebrew); declaration of God's unity and watchword of Jewish faith. </sentence><sentence id="133"> everybody to undress. " </sentence><sentence id="134">What's the matter with you, Jew bastard, mother fuckers. </sentence><sentence id="135">Where you hiding your, your jewelry, necklaces? </sentence><sentence id="136">We going to find them." </sentence><sentence id="137">And said, said, "Just spread your, spread your legs and, and bend over and keep your mouth open, you going to find. </sentence><sentence id="138">You bastard Jews." </sentence><sentence id="139">You know. </sentence><sentence id="140">So old religious women you know, that they never learned these words, you know, these nasty words and it never, didn't know how to act in front of strangers, you know, and they had to search them. </sentence><sentence id="141">And if anybody complained, the rifle butts came down on him, on that person, whatever -- children whatever and the, and the little boys, they would try to shield their mothers. </sentence><sentence id="142">The cursing and hitting constantly, "You Jew bastards," you know the.... And they had to do a certain terrible searches you know, of little girls and little babies. </sentence><sentence id="143">The people on <span class="spatial object">stretchers</span>, they turned them over you know -- they're, they're looking, looking for valuables, you know. </sentence><sentence id="144">And the Chris-Christians outside the -- you can look inside from outside you know, you could look inside the <span class="interior space">courtyard</span> -- the cheering, cheering on, you know, from the outside. </sentence><sentence id="145">So and the next morning they herd us, everybody to <span class="dlf">rails</span>. </sentence><sentence id="146">Everybody with <span class="spatial object">stretcher</span> to go to the <span class="building">railroad station</span> and about six o'clock in the morning and there they had four <span class="spatial object">boxcars</span> there. </sentence><sentence id="147">They can -- and everyone of them for about 400 Jews, you know, it gathered the first day. </sentence><sentence id="148">They took, they took us to <span class="populated place">Kassa</span>, <span class="populated place">Kassa</span> -- that's a <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> in, in <span class="populated place">Kassa</span>. </sentence><sentence id="149">Kassa's <span class="dlf">Ko8ice</span> -- same thing. </sentence><sentence id="150">It's about 70, 80 kilometers from my <span class="populated place">town</span>. </sentence><sentence id="151">And they came with the -- they herd -- they were herding the Jews and some of them couldn't walk and finally I went -- at the <span class="building">railroad station</span> I went to the Rabbi I remember and he blessed me, you know. </sentence><sentence id="152">So, he told -- said the old biblical blessing you know the "Yivarekhekha Adonai v'yishmerekha. </sentence><sentence id="153">Ya'eir Adonai panav eilekha vikhuneka. </sentence><sentence id="154">Yisa Adonai panav eilekha, v'yaseim lekha shalom." </sentence><sentence id="155">And I looked in his eyes. </sentence><sentence id="156">I could have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord. </sentence><sentence id="157">And put everybody in -- when the <span class="spatial object">train</span> arrived they put everybody in-into the <span class="spatial object">wagon</span>, in the <span class="spatial object">boxcars</span> and they threw in a bucket or bucket you know for waste and wasn't enough for a one hour, you know, for someone to put 80 or 100 person one <span class="spatial object">boxcars</span>. </sentence><sentence id="158">They couldn't -- just standing up, couldn't sit down. </sentence><sentence id="159">Cursing and the -- "You Jew bastards," you know. </sentence><sentence id="160">Some of them begging for <span class="env feature">water</span> you know -- not, not me, but a little girl, little baby. " </sentence><sentence id="161">You Jew bastards. </sentence><sentence id="162">Mother fuckers," you know cursing. </sentence><sentence id="163">Nothing but help from the Christians, you know, some passengers helping, helping, they helped to step how high the <span class="spatial object">boxcars</span> from the throwing in the, helping, pushing and shoving into, the Jews into the <span class="spatial object">boxcars</span>. </sentence><sentence id="164">It took them maybe 10 hours to get in, to get into <span class="populated place">Kassa ghetto</span>. </sentence><sentence id="165">There they were already, they have assigned places they could, they could have go. </sentence><sentence id="166">They were -- but I had to go into the <span class="populated place">slave labor camp</span> myself. </sentence><sentence id="167">Had to report. </sentence><sentence id="168">There were thousands and thousands of men up to thir--30, maybe 35, you 4 (May) the Lord bless and guard you/ (May) the Lord shine His face upon you and be gracious to you/ (May) the Lord lift His face to you and grant you peace. ( </sentence><sentence id="169">Hebrew); priestly blessing. </sentence><sentence id="170"> know, in this <span class="populated place">labor camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="171">And they took my name. " </sentence><sentence id="172">What's your father's name? </sentence><sentence id="173">And what's the whore, whore name? </sentence><sentence id="174">What's my mother?" -- </sentence><sentence id="175">they were call my mother, "the whore, the whore name," you know, the, the -- if anybody tried to complain that she's not a whore, then he didn't have too many teeth left in his mouth. </sentence><sentence id="176">They were there brutality, the -- it was, was worse than the Hungarians. </sentence><sentence id="177">They were they were antisemitic and we know that. </sentence><sentence id="178">The <span class="building">Hungarian gendarmes</span> were antisemitic , but they wanted to tease the -- to show the Germans they were they could do, they could do better than they. </sentence><sentence id="179">And, and they were just bru-- they were -- the brutality was, I tell you, unspeakable. </sentence><sentence id="180">So in the <span class="populated place">Kassa</span>, in the -- when I was in the <span class="populated place">slave labor camp</span>, they didn't do much and but I heard that they got -- they -- I find out where's they're -- from the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> actually they took the Jews into a <span class="building">brick factory</span> -- about 30,000 of them from <span class="populated place">Kassa</span>, from the area of <span class="populated place">Kassa</span>, <span class="populated place">KoSice</span>. </sentence><sentence id="181">It was a <span class="building">brick factory</span> and I want to see my family. </sentence><sentence id="182">They're all there. </sentence><sentence id="183">And my girlfriend, she was only 16, 16% and I was 21. </sentence><sentence id="184">Just want to see them again. </sentence><sentence id="185">But to get inside you know, in the -- into the <span class="building">brick factory</span> was just as, it was it was terrible you know. </sentence><sentence id="186">They would, could shot you on sight, you know the.... So, what I did with the risk of my life, I took off my yellow star and arm band, yellow arm band. </sentence><sentence id="187">And I approached the <span class="dlf">gate</span>. </sentence><sentence id="188">So said to me, "You, what are you doing outside, you Jew bastard. </sentence><sentence id="189">What you doing out?" </sentence><sentence id="190">I said -- 1 remember I said, "I went out with the" -- I lied to them that I went out with the funeral detail from the <span class="populated place">camp</span> and they coming after me. </sentence><sentence id="191">So they finally believed, believed in me you know, otherwise they would shoot me right there to the German, German shepherd. </sentence><sentence id="192">They were surrounded you know, this <span class="populated place">ghetto</span>. </sentence><sentence id="193">Finally, I went in. </sentence><sentence id="194">I found my mother and my father. </sentence><sentence id="195">And my mother was so worried that somebody going to, you know, find me and they shoot me right, right away. </sentence><sentence id="196">It was no buts, you know. </sentence><sentence id="197">This was slightest punishment for the Jew -- they shoot him. </sentence><sentence id="198">But they wanted to take him, you know. </sentence><sentence id="199">They really didn't want to shoot them -- they, you know -- right there. </sentence><sentence id="200">They want to take everybody out away you know from the <span class="populated place">extermination camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="201">So it was a big problem how to get out from the <span class="building">brick factory</span>. </sentence><sentence id="202">So finally with another lie I said -- with another funeral detail, I got out, you know, from the <span class="region">area</span>, and I went back to my, my <span class="spatial object">unit</span>, you know, to the <span class="populated place">slave labor camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="203">And May, it was May 15th when I heard that they're going to ship them out. </sentence><sentence id="204">They're going to take them to further. </sentence><sentence id="205">We didn't know exactly where they're going to take them but we know already they take them to, out of the <span class="country">country</span>, you know. </sentence><sentence id="206">The <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> -- they going to liquidate the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span>. </sentence><sentence id="207">Not the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span>, the <span class="building">factory</span> but actually it was a <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> and <span class="building">factory</span>. </sentence><sentence id="208">So I tried to get in. </sentence><sentence id="209">I tried to go out and get in. </sentence><sentence id="210">I could get out from the <span class="populated place">forced labor camp</span> easier but to get into the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> it was impossible already. </sentence><sentence id="211">The <span class="spatial object">trains</span>, they just pull-pulled into, into the -- directly into the <span class="spatial object">boxcars</span> in into the <span class="building">brick factory</span>, and 10,000 they can fit in hundred <span class="spatial object">boxcars</span>. </sentence><sentence id="212">They put them in-into the into the <span class="spatial object">boxcars</span> without any food or water. </sentence><sentence id="213">And they ship them to <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span>, from there directly to <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span>. </sentence><sentence id="214">10, 20 of them, 30 of them were dead; they were when they arrived. </sentence><sentence id="215">That's what I heard already from -- my sister told me. </sentence><sentence id="216">She was with them. </sentence><sentence id="217">She, then she told me from there on, because I wasn't there. </sentence><sentence id="218">But she told me then what happened after and when they arrived to, half-dead, you know, in <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span>. </sentence><sentence id="219">And without food and water the little babies you know -- they couldn't sit down. </sentence><sentence id="220">They were -- they were Pulling them out by their hair from, the from the <span class="spatial object">wagons</span>. </sentence><sentence id="221">"Raus,deg you verfluchte Juden."" </sentence><sentence id="222">You know, they were speaking German there already. </sentence><sentence id="223">"Raus, you bastard Jews!" </sentence><sentence id="224">You know, and they're worse, they're, they're worse. </sentence><sentence id="225">Didn't know what's what, you know. </sentence><sentence id="226">They were, they were half dead. </sentence><sentence id="227">They were lined them up and she said and it was in distance -- there were thousands of them. </sentence><sentence id="228">You know, 10s -- 10,000. </sentence><sentence id="229">There was a nice gentleman there with the, the white glove and just pointing on which side they should go, you know, the left or the right. </sentence><sentence id="230">Children, with babies and my sister had a little -- she was a two year old little girl. </sentence><sentence id="231">She was so cute. </sentence><sentence id="232">She right away to the left, they sent her mother and my father, my older brother -- he was Sandor. </sentence><sentence id="233">He was at that time 47, 48, and my sister Mag-Magda she was, the only one sent to the right, you know, to, to work. </sentence><sentence id="234">And the rest of them, first they went, there was a <span class="interior space">preparation room</span> and, and they used to cut their hair and they thought they're going into the show -- into take a <span class="interior space">shower</span>, you know. </sentence><sentence id="235">Then they realized that it was too late, you know. </sentence><sentence id="236">The, the <span class="dlf">doors</span> closed and the rest is history. </sentence><sentence id="237">But after that they shipped us out to further, further. </sentence><sentence id="238">We -- first we thought we going, send us also to the <span class="region">East</span>. </sentence><sentence id="239"><span class="region">East</span> was almost certain death. </sentence><sentence id="240">And <span class="region">West</span> was to give you a little time to live. </sentence><sentence id="241">So we, so we lived. </sentence><sentence id="242">I was a <span class="spatial object">furrier</span>. </sentence><sentence id="243">And they wanted us to work, you know, as a -- working for the government you know, to manufacture linings for soldiers you know, from fur, you know, into coats. </sentence><sentence id="244">And tailors, they were -- their different job to make different things. </sentence><sentence id="245">We were hundreds of them, thousands you know. </sentence><sentence id="246">And different trades they have -- did different things. </sentence><sentence id="247">First they shipped, we went to a place where we stayed there for a month, then we -- they shipped us to, to catalogue the <span class="populated place">ghettos</span> in <span class="populated place">Gyengyes</span>. </sentence><sentence id="248">There was a little <span class="populated place">town</span>, nice <span class="populated place">urban town</span> named <span class="populated place">Gyengyes</span>, about 20, 25,000 people. </sentence><sentence id="249">And our job was, as a furrier my job was to catalogue -- we were about two, three furriers -- to catalogue furs, you know, what they gathered from the Jews. </sentence><sentence id="250">That was a sorry sight I'm telling you, these <span class="populated place">ghettos</span> you know. </sentence><sentence id="251">The -- to see this, the <span class="spatial object">Torahs</span>, you know, scattered around -- baby clothes, everybody cried. </sentence><sentence id="252">We were young. </sentence><sentence id="253">So some of them even -- we were there for a couple of months but some of them guys even spirited out Torah scrolls. </sentence><sentence id="254">They were wrapping around their bodies, you know, with the -- and they spirited out the Torah scrolls to have a minyan. </sentence><sentence id="255">They still believed in God. </sentence><sentence id="256">They believe in God, so hard. </sentence><sentence id="257">Sometimes I wondered; we all wondered. " </sentence><sentence id="258">We were the chosen, we were the chosen" -- sometimes believe you, it, everything was a bullshit. </sentence><sentence id="259">But nevertheless we always go back to God, you know, because we learned you know. </sentence><sentence id="260">That's the way we brought us up. </sentence><sentence id="261">And questioning God present creator, the -- real believer if he questions something you know, the existence of God -- he shouldn't. </sentence><sentence id="262">> Get out (German) deg Damned Jews (German) I was, I remember when I was in this <span class="populated place">camp</span>, and one afternoon, the Kommandant came and said to us -- we were about 20, 2,500 people in this <span class="populated place">camp</span> -- he said to us, he said, "Any, any of you wants to turn into Christian faith you can do so. </sentence><sentence id="263">You have to go to the <span class="building">church</span> and, and kneel down, and, and, and become Christian. </sentence><sentence id="264">Then you can save your save your life." </sentence><sentence id="265">So you know a drowning man can, he can try to lift with, try to lift up himself with a razor blade, you know, from the <span class="env feature">water</span> -- you know, to save himself. </sentence><sentence id="266">And 99 percent of the Jews in this <span class="populated place">camp</span>, they went to <span class="building">church</span> and I myself I've never been a religious man even though my grandfather was very religious, was a Talmud khakhem." </sentence><sentence id="267">And my mother used to have a <span class="building">sheitl</span> -- and all her sisters. </sentence><sentence id="268">I've never been religious, but I just couldn't go to kneel down in, in the <span class="building">church</span>. </sentence><sentence id="269">I don't know. </sentence><sentence id="270">I just -- I said I'd rather die, you know. </sentence><sentence id="271">I remember when these boys came back you, know, from <span class="building">church</span>, they felt Christians. </sentence><sentence id="272">And they were goose-stepping like Christian boys, you know. </sentence><sentence id="273">They had their, their, their face was shined, you know, up. </sentence><sentence id="274">And I --- then I feeled -- felt sorry for God. </sentence><sentence id="275">I was sorry for them. </sentence><sentence id="276">They thought they were delivered from the winds of war to survive. </sentence><sentence id="277">They all died. </sentence><sentence id="278">They all died. </sentence><sentence id="279">Didn't help them, but they thought that it will help them because they turned to the Christian faith. </sentence><sentence id="280">Nothing could have helped them. </sentence><sentence id="281">Even they were their great grandfather was Jewish, they were, they were good as good as the rest. </sentence><sentence id="282">So and later on matter of fact, that was after -- I was just going back to these episodes -- that when I went to, I went to <span class="country">Israel</span> in 1976, and I went to the <span class="building">Yad Vashem</span> and I passed a monument in the middle of the <span class="building">Yad Vashem</span> and was written that anybody didn't left his faith under duress, you know, is holy something, you know. </sentence><sentence id="283">So I said, "What is it talking about?" </sentence><sentence id="284">So I went back. </sentence><sentence id="285">I read it again, you know, went back. </sentence><sentence id="286">I, I read it so it was, then I felt good about myself you know that, not because what's a different Christian and the Jews, you know, how they come from the same, they're all Semites you know, the same thing as Jesus Christ was a rabbi himself and I'm sure he'd teach his followers to obeyed his teachings, and every time they didn't listen to him, so such a beautiful words -- "Thy, our Father, which are in heaven, hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom comes, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven." </sentence><sentence id="287">These beautiful words, they should listen and they should teach their children to honor their savior, the Jesus Christ. </sentence><sentence id="288">They should listen, they should listen and the Christian clergy, they were teaching hatred against us. </sentence><sentence id="289">Why?Many times we asking why they hate us so much. </sentence><sentence id="290">And they -- how many times we try to shake their hands, even in the darkest nights, to be our friends and neighbors. </sentence><sentence id="291">They'd always, they'd always denied their friendship to us and as always blamed their Christian clergy because they are the ones, they are the one, they are, they teach their the, the children of the Christian faith to be antisemitic . </sentence><sentence id="292">They always did, and it's -- and evidently it's didn't stop yet. </sentence><sentence id="293">7 Sage (Yiddish) So when I was in this <span class="populated place">camp</span> when we went to <span class="populated place">Budapest</span>. </sentence><sentence id="294">And we worked for the war effort, as a furrier and tailors worked for the different things for, for the government. </sentence><sentence id="295">And how many times we used to get the, the air raids and the, the <span class="spatial object">bombs</span> used to explode, you know, in height in heights and it was saturated bombing. </sentence><sentence id="296">How many times 30, 40 feet from me bombs used to explode and here I am to tell you my story. </sentence><sentence id="297">And then I without a scratch, didn't hit me. </sentence><sentence id="298">In this <span class="populated place">camp</span>, one time, it was September 1944, when the underground organization in <span class="populated place">Budapest</span> approached us, few of us, and asked us if we wanted to join the underground fighters. </sentence><sentence id="299">I said, "Yes, of course," I said. </sentence><sentence id="300">So they told us, "Look, you -- sooner or later they're going to kill you. </sentence><sentence id="301">It's just a matter of time." </sentence><sentence id="302">They said, "Why don't you just die with your gun in your hand rather than wait for it, wait till they shoot you." </sentence><sentence id="303">So two, 300 of us joined the -- said, "yes." </sentence><sentence id="304">At a certain time because it was always dark in the night, you know. </sentence><sentence id="305">It was no light was allowed during wartime. </sentence><sentence id="306">Otherwise the <span class="spatial object">airplanes</span> coming for surveillance or bombing, they could pinpoint the <span class="region">area</span> easier. </sentence><sentence id="307">So, it had to be always dark, darkness. </sentence><sentence id="308">So on a certain date we dug under the <span class="dlf">fence</span> in our <span class="building">compound</span> and during the night we slipped out under the other side of the <span class="dlf">fence</span>, and they were waiting for us with pistols. </sentence><sentence id="309">And they used to -- they gave us a pistol and a couple of rounds, couple of magazines of bullets, rounds. </sentence><sentence id="310">And they told us that anybody wants to ask for identification, shoot them right away. </sentence><sentence id="311">Had to shoot them, otherwise they'd shoot you. </sentence><sentence id="312">Because as a Jew -- they what they did is, when they asked for identification from you, and they wasn't satisfied with it, they used to take you under the <span class="dlf">door</span>, and you had to show your penis. </sentence><sentence id="313">It was only Jews, they were they were circumcised in <span class="country">Europe</span>. </sentence><sentence id="314">So if they showed, they show you your penis they'll shoot you right on the spot, so we had to shoot them. </sentence><sentence id="315">That was an order, to shoot them. </sentence><sentence id="316">And again we got into the this safe <span class="building">houses</span>, you know, when the this underground fighters they gave us directions you know which way to go and how to get there. </sentence><sentence id="317">We were a little familiar with the <span class="region">area</span>. </sentence><sentence id="318">We got there so the our command--- the commandant, you know, the commandant, he was he was he was 22 years old you know, but he spoke fluent German so he was questioning us, you know, if he want to be sure you know, we're Jew, we're Jewish. </sentence><sentence id="319">And we had to show him our penis, you know, we are Jewish. </sentence><sentence id="320">In a couple of days he was crash training -- how to use small arms, fire arms and machine guns and grenades, how to throw effectively and in after two days we went to our first job. </sentence><sentence id="321">So there were about 15 of us. </sentence><sentence id="322">So I asked him, where we asked the lieutenant -- we used to call him lieutenant, he was 22 years. </sentence><sentence id="323">His name was Laci, Leslie you know in English. </sentence><sentence id="324">So he said, "You'll find out where we're going. </sentence><sentence id="325">So, first we had to steal a <span class="spatial object">truck</span>." </sentence><sentence id="326">A couple of boys knew how to drive, so they saw a <span class="spatial object">truck</span> and we used to follow each other about 50 feet, you know, not to be suspicious you know during the -- it was dark, very dark. </sentence><sentence id="327">So they find the <span class="spatial object">truck</span>. </sentence><sentence id="328">They put the, cross the <span class="dlf">wires</span>, and off we went <span class="region">outskirts</span> to <span class="populated place">Budapest</span>, because <span class="populated place">Budapest</span> is two -- the <span class="env feature">River Danube</span> divides it. </sentence><sentence id="329">One side is Pest. </sentence><sentence id="330">One side is <span class="populated place">Buda</span>. </sentence><sentence id="331">So, that's why they call it "<span class="populated place">Budapest</span>." </sentence><sentence id="332">So, we went to <span class="populated place">Buda</span>, the other side of the <span class="env feature">river</span>. </sentence><sentence id="333">So, finally we had a discussion that says we're going into this <span class="building">ammunition dump</span>, but it was circled and was pro-protected with the Hungarian patrol. </sentence><sentence id="334">So, he went there by himself alone. </sentence><sentence id="335">He was dressed as a Hungarian officer uniform. </sentence><sentence id="336">He spoke fluent German and Hungarian, of course. </sentence><sentence id="337">He was asking for the -- he was asking direction. </sentence><sentence id="338">So, we park that <span class="spatial object">truck</span>, you know, for a short distance from this <span class="building">ammunition dump</span>. </sentence><sentence id="339">Two guys, both side, two, always two of us one side and two on the other <span class="region">side</span>. </sentence><sentence id="340">Two patrols. </sentence><sentence id="341">We grabbed the <span class="spatial object">patrol</span>. </sentence><sentence id="342">We was told what to do you know before. </sentence><sentence id="343">Close his mouth with the <span class="spatial object">bayonet</span>, you know. </sentence><sentence id="344">We had to stab him that many times and this has to be repeated about two, three times before we got into the <span class="building">ammunition factory</span>, <span class="building">dump</span>, <span class="building">dump site</span>. </sentence><sentence id="345">So there we gathered all we could -- the most important thing was <span class="dlf">mine</span> -- to get <span class="dlf">mines</span> to -- because our purpose was to delay their supplies and sabotage their <span class="spatial object">trains</span>, you know, the supply. </sentence><sentence id="346">So we got as many, much heavy machine guns can and grenades and mines, as much as we could carry, you know, 15 people. </sentence><sentence id="347">And we loaded the <span class="spatial object">truck</span> -- we loaded -- got the <span class="spatial object">truck</span> loaded and about two sappers stayed behind to, you know what a <span class="spatial object">sapper</span> is. </sentence><sentence id="348">They put four, five different places but <span class="dlf">mines</span> in into the <span class="building">ammunition dump</span> in a few minutes. </sentence><sentence id="349">Didn't go more than 500 yards. </sentence><sentence id="350">We saw the like a fires -- what do you call it -- blaze, you know. </sentence><sentence id="351">It was like we destroyed the <span class="building">ammunition dump</span> you know, when it were up. </sentence><sentence id="352">They were searching for us all over you know. </sentence><sentence id="353">And they were going to spy, disperse the personnel, you know. </sentence><sentence id="354">They had to hide. </sentence><sentence id="355">The mine was the most important thing we have to go in during the evening at night to mine the <span class="dlf">railroads</span> and <span class="dlf">bridges</span>. </sentence><sentence id="356">So, but they start to repairing it you know, the faster and faster, the because they had no more men than we were, you know, the army, you know, the Hungarian army and German collaborators. </sentence><sentence id="357">So it was, it was -- I remember the date -- was it September, September 1944, and Horthy,(r) I told you that Horthy Miklos -- he was chancellor already in <span class="country">Hungary</span>, and this visit came out from <span class="country">Hungary</span> on a false pretense and this Jew-hater Szalasi, he took over the reign, and he was a well-known Jew-hater. </sentence><sentence id="358">He was worse than Horthy Mikles, but when he spirited Horthy Mikles out they called him he was he was a Jewish collaborator already, Horthy Mikles. </sentence><sentence id="359">Besides they call him anything else. </sentence><sentence id="360">So in March, in September seven -- 17, we heard on the radio that they going to make a big parade, when they took over the reign from <span class="populated place">Horthy</span>, on <span class="dlf">Vilmos csaszar street</span> in <span class="country">Hungary</span>. </sentence><sentence id="361">So we had the order from the American and British intelligence, because we worked for them because that's the <span class="spatial object">underground fighter</span> -- they told us that we actually worked for the British-American intelligence. </sentence><sentence id="362">And we got our reward -- they will reward us you know after the -- after we do a good jo-- good job. </sentence><sentence id="363">Who cares what they going to reward us? </sentence><sentence id="364">What they going to do?But nevertheless, about 200 of us waited for the columns of the parade on Vilmos csaszar * Mikles Horthy " <span class="dlf">Ferenc Szalasi street</span>. </sentence><sentence id="365">We, the night before we placed heavy machine gun and all kind of fire equipment, you know, with submachine gun and grenades and you name it. </sentence><sentence id="366">We had it. </sentence><sentence id="367">Pistols, were 200 of us. </sentence><sentence id="368">Two hundred people, you know, could do a lot of lot of damage. </sentence><sentence id="369">I remember the waiting in the <span class="dlf">windows</span> and from the <span class="interior space">cellars</span>, wherever we were stationed. </sentence><sentence id="370">And we heard the <span class="spatial object">column</span>. </sentence><sentence id="371">The <span class="spatial object">column</span> was coming and saw the cheering of the Christians well wishers, you know, with the fascist flags. </sentence><sentence id="372">They were waving fascist flags and, and sitting on -- they have <span class="spatial object">trucks</span> and spick-and-span uniforms, you know, the people who go on the parade. " </sentence><sentence id="373">Give them, give them three cheers," you know. " </sentence><sentence id="374">Salute." </sentence><sentence id="375">And then we gave them the three cheers from our guns. </sentence><sentence id="376">And 300, 200 angry Jews, they can do a lot of <span class="dlf">dam</span> --do a lot of damage for them. </sentence><sentence id="377">We figured that if we do lot of damage you know for the Szalasi regime, then some of the <span class="populated place">Budapest</span> population might join us you know, to and fight for to end the war, you know. </sentence><sentence id="378">But no. </sentence><sentence id="379">It didn't happen didn't happen that way at all, and our and our job was to sabotage the <span class="dlf">railroads</span> again, again, again, but they were, like I said, they were fixing them up and faster and faster. </sentence><sentence id="380">And we became the spies personnel you know. </sentence><sentence id="381">They were looking for us all, all the time. </sentence><sentence id="382">And -- but luckily the <span class="region">areas</span> you know, during the day, everybody was running for <span class="building">shelters</span>, you know. </sentence><sentence id="383">They didn't have a chance. </sentence><sentence id="384">They didn't look for us so much, but nevertheless we -- our <span class="spatial object">unit</span> as a <span class="spatial object">underground fighter</span> became obsolete in <span class="populated place">Budapest</span>. </sentence><sentence id="385">We was, just couldn't do much. </sentence><sentence id="386">We, I didn't say, I tell you about, we saw so many times that this Fascist used to come in, used to bring, gather the Jews, used to catch them on the <span class="dlf">street</span> or in the <span class="populated place">ghettos</span> in <span class="populated place">Budapest</span>. </sentence><sentence id="387">Used to bring them, just hundreds of hundreds. </sentence><sentence id="388">Used to line them up aside of the <span class="env feature">River Danube</span>. </sentence><sentence id="389">Used to just machine gun them down, with babies and children, and anybody didn't fall, they just used to kick them right into the <span class="env feature">river</span>. </sentence><sentence id="390">And only a few Christian on-lookers, and helpers. </sentence><sentence id="391">And it happened so many times, so many times. </sentence><sentence id="392">And nobody helped. </sentence><sentence id="393">No thundering and no lightening from above. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="688">Q: May I ask you something? </sentence><sentence id="689">When you were standing in the <span class="dlf">windows</span> and you were shooting down at the <span class="spatial object">parade</span>. </sentence><sentence id="690">What happened? </sentence><sentence id="691">What was the result of all that shooting? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="696">Were a lot of people killed? </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="697">A: Did a lot of damage. </sentence><sentence id="698">A lot of people killed. </sentence><sentence id="699">Hundreds of them. </sentence><sentence id="700">Hundreds of people died in that <span class="dlf">street</span>, on that day and but most of us escaped. </sentence><sentence id="701">We're under, you know the <span class="dlf">tunnels</span> and we already knew how to get out you know. </sentence><sentence id="702">We left all the guns, heavy equipment, mortars, whatever we, what we didn't use. </sentence><sentence id="703">Only kept a pistol on us. </sentence><sentence id="704">And the reason was that anybody who got wounded, you know, our comrades, we couldn't leave them alive anymore. </sentence><sentence id="705">If we couldn't take them to the safe <span class="building">house</span> some how, then we had to shoot, three of us had to shoot him. </sentence><sentence id="706">Because a wounded man is a tell-tale. </sentence><sentence id="707">He tells everything, you know, a wounded man. </sentence><sentence id="708">And that was a good philosophy. </sentence><sentence id="709">That was -- they told us already before hand, "If you got wounded you're a dead man. </sentence><sentence id="710">If you are wounded so badly we cannot help you. </sentence><sentence id="711">We cannot take you to <span class="building">hospitals</span>" It was known, we can't get them into <span class="building">hospitals</span>. " </sentence><sentence id="712">You you'll be killed, because you going to everything and you have to." </sentence><sentence id="713">That's why they told us we had, when somebody asking for our identification, we had to shoot them right away. </sentence><sentence id="714">So, anyway and had to do it so many times, for little boys, boys. </sentence><sentence id="715">They looked like 14, 15, you know, from the lack of food and lack of vitamins. </sentence><sentence id="716">So anyway we went; we escaped. </sentence><sentence id="717">We went down west of <span class="populated place">Budapest</span>, and we joined -- we was, it was getting so hard. </sentence><sentence id="718">We couldn't stay there. </sentence><sentence id="719">But we were very sorry later what happened. </sentence><sentence id="720">But nevertheless we joined <span class="populated place">forced labor camp</span> and we told the Kommandant that I our guards disappeared. </sentence><sentence id="721">It wasn't unusual at that time you know, because the, the Russian was coming. </sentence><sentence id="722">They were afraid. </sentence><sentence id="723">They, the Christian boys, the gendarmes and the guards, they would like to be, you know, with a gun in their hands. </sentence><sentence id="724">They don't want to be on the other side of the of the <span class="spatial object">gun</span>. </sentence><sentence id="725">Did not want to be. </sentence><sentence id="726">They disappeared. </sentence><sentence id="727">They went <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="728">They went someplace. </sentence><sentence id="729">They were hiding. </sentence><sentence id="730">So the Kommandant there, our Kommandant acknowledged it. </sentence><sentence id="731">But that time the, the, the Hungarian Kommandant didn't have too much of the say-so, you know, and the Germans took over us. </sentence><sentence id="732">That was 200 kilometers from <span class="populated place">Budapest</span>, west of <span class="populated place">Budapest</span>. </sentence><sentence id="733">It was maybe 30 kilometers from <span class="country">Austria</span>, 30 kilometers from <span class="country">Austria</span>. </sentence><sentence id="734">So one day, the German guard took us over to <span class="populated place">Schachendorf concentration camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="735">We had to march through the, the <span class="dlf">border</span>, <span class="dlf">Hungarian-Austrian border</span>. </sentence><sentence id="736">We marched through, at the <span class="dlf">border</span>, <span class="dlf">border</span> we had to undress, and took everything away. </sentence><sentence id="737">Just left whatever pair of pants, two pair of pants or whatever you had, some clothes. </sentence><sentence id="738">Some of them didn't have winter coat. </sentence><sentence id="739">In the winter it's very cold in the Austrian, in the <span class="env feature">Alps</span>. </sentence><sentence id="740">And our job was to dig <span class="dlf">trenches</span> and <span class="dlf">train tracks</span> in this <span class="populated place">concentration camp</span>, in <span class="populated place">Schachendorf</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="785">Q: I think at this point I want to stop. </sentence><sentence id="786">We have to change tapes. </sentence><sentence id="787">Let's do that and then we'll pick up with <span class="populated place">Schachendorf</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="791">A: Alright. </sentence><sentence id="792"> TAPE #2 </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="795">Q: Let's take it -- you're now in <span class="populated place">Schachendorf</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="797">A: In <span class="populated place">Schachendorf</span>, yeah, in -- <span class="populated place">Schachendorf</span> is a <span class="populated place">concentration camp</span> about 20, 25, 30,000 laborers, Jewish boys between -- none of them was more than 30. </sentence><sentence id="798">The best maybe 30 to 35. </sentence><sentence id="799">First of all after 35, you couldn't survive in a <span class="populated place">concentration camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="800">You hardly, you just couldn't take it. </sentence><sentence id="801">It was -- I remember when we when we arrived into <span class="populated place">Schachendorf</span>, it was snowing and very cold in the winter, you know, end of December in the <span class="env feature">Alps</span>. </sentence><sentence id="802">And the Kommandant came out and said to us "Du verfluchten Juden." </sentence><sentence id="803">You know, it means you know, "You cursed Jews. </sentence><sentence id="804">Here you have to work, not with your brain, not with you brow, not with your brains." </sentence><sentence id="805">So he assigned a <span class="building">barrack</span>, a <span class="building">barrack</span>, you know, like used to held animals you know. </sentence><sentence id="806">It was a long <span class="building">barracks</span>, maybe I figure about two, 300 people would fit in it. </sentence><sentence id="807">But they put us about six, 700 people into this <span class="building">barrack</span>, so we didn't have <span class="interior space">space</span> to -- we have, we had <span class="spatial object">bleachers</span>. </sentence><sentence id="808">They used to call it <span class="spatial object">bleachers</span>, you know, like <span class="spatial object">bunks</span> you know. </sentence><sentence id="809">Three, three <span class="spatial object">bunks</span> you know on top of each other. </sentence><sentence id="810">We had to lay down you know next to each other like sardines. </sentence><sentence id="811">And just a little <span class="dlf">row</span>, you know, just to squeeze, pass by. </sentence><sentence id="812">And you know, in this <span class="env feature">environment</span>, you know, the, the epidemic very, you know, very easily occurs. </sentence><sentence id="813">You know, because the lice and then the typhus fever it was rampant before. </sentence><sentence id="814">I remember even back in, in <span class="populated place">Budapest</span> in this <span class="populated place">camp</span> where I was, everybody was sick. </sentence><sentence id="815">It was a life sen-- a life sentence, you know. </sentence><sentence id="816">I mean it's a death sentence. </sentence><sentence id="817">Used to take, take them out. </sentence><sentence id="818">Couldn't work. </sentence><sentence id="819">As long as you could have worked, you was alright, you know. </sentence><sentence id="820">After you couldn't work, you were obsolete. </sentence><sentence id="821">So used to take them in the <span class="spatial object">trucks</span>, you know, take them out. </sentence><sentence id="822">You know, used by night used to come in and they couldn't, some of them couldn't move, you know, sick. </sentence><sentence id="823">And they just pulled them out and was pleading, you know -- "please, please," because they know, you know, that once they take them out, he was dead. </sentence><sentence id="824">And, "Please, just give me time. </sentence><sentence id="825">I'm not that sick." </sentence><sentence id="826">You know, was pleading with the guards. </sentence><sentence id="827">They said, "Don't worry. </sentence><sentence id="828">We take you to the <span class="building">sanatorium</span>," you know. " </sentence><sentence id="829">We'll take care of you," you know. </sentence><sentence id="830">They knew. </sentence><sentence id="831">They were -- they knew what was happening. </sentence><sentence id="832">They just take them to the <span class="env feature">woods</span>. </sentence><sentence id="833">They used to shoot them. </sentence><sentence id="834">So, what happened -- this, this, this <span class="populated place">Schachendorf</span>, I'm going back to. </sentence><sentence id="835">The Kommandant says, "At five o'clock in the morning, you get up in the morning and you go to <span class="building">work</span>. </sentence><sentence id="836">You go to <span class="building">work</span> as long as you can. </sentence><sentence id="837">After you cannot work, you, you become obsolete." </sentence><sentence id="838">So in the morning we lined up and we used to get a pishke"(r) -- you know what a "<span class="spatial object">pishke</span>" is?Like a, a little beat-up <span class="spatial object">container</span>, you know, you got the food, you know, you call it "<span class="spatial object">pishke</span>." </sentence><sentence id="839">So everybody used to have one. </sentence><sentence id="840">You know, just in case you get some food, you " <span class="spatial object">Alms-box</span> (Yiddish) know. </sentence><sentence id="841">So in the cold, you know, we had to stay hours, you know. </sentence><sentence id="842">You got we got a little tea, no sugar or anything. </sentence><sentence id="843">And they told us you got a piece of bread at supper time. </sentence><sentence id="844">You come, come back. </sentence><sentence id="845">So everybody got pick axe and, and shovel and whatever tools necessary to dig <span class="dlf">trenches</span> you know. </sentence><sentence id="846">We always had to run to work. </sentence><sentence id="847">Always the Germans with thousands of us and the German Shepherd, they were trained, you know, to -- they were trained to kill, you know, the German Shepherd with their handlers, not so polite handlers. </sentence><sentence id="848">The only reason they were the hand|-- they were handlers because otherwise they would send them to the <span class="region">Front</span>. </sentence><sentence id="849">So they were trying to do the best job, you know. </sentence><sentence id="850">They were seasoned Jew-haters, you know, and so they were every single day, you know, the running. </sentence><sentence id="851">And we had to run for our lives because they used to shoot the last guys who was running. </sentence><sentence id="852">Used to kill them. </sentence><sentence id="853">So nobody wanted to, you know, you have the instinct to live. </sentence><sentence id="854">So everybody tried to hide from the other, and they were shooting them constantly. </sentence><sentence id="855">And sometimes 10, 15 guys, they got killed, you know, just running to work. </sentence><sentence id="856">You know, they were laughing, you know, these guards. </sentence><sentence id="857">They were German -- they were I don't know what kind of people they were there, but they spoke German but many times they used to just take them out from <span class="building">prisons</span> you know, some of them. </sentence><sentence id="858">And to, to break the <span class="env feature">ground</span> during the, the winter time you know in the <span class="env feature">Alps</span> was first they had to pick, guy with the pick axe had to chop through pieces by pieces the <span class="env feature">ground</span>. </sentence><sentence id="859">And once you went down maybe 12 inches you know, it was easier to work. </sentence><sentence id="860">And sometimes you used to find some roots there you know. </sentence><sentence id="861">It tasted so delicious, so...like onions you know, tasted, you know. </sentence><sentence id="862">We used to eat anything. </sentence><sentence id="863"><span class="env feature">Grass</span> or <span class="env feature">tree</span> barks, as long as we could have chewed, the -- chew it and swallow it, we eat it because we didn't get food. </sentence><sentence id="864">At night when we went back, we had to run constantly because the shooting, you know, the Germans -- us, "Faster! </sentence><sentence id="865">Lauf! </sentence><sentence id="866">Lauft""" You didn't want to get shoot -- shot, so you arrived to supper time, six, seven o'clock, you know, at the <span class="building">compound</span> and there's a couple of two, three Jewish boys with a big <span class="spatial object">container</span> used to call it -- with big <span class="spatial object">pots</span>. </sentence><sentence id="867">Used to have potato peels, you know, used to -- the German guard, we had about 50, 60 guards. </sentence><sentence id="868">I don't know how many guards, you know, there exactly, about 50, I suppose -- we used to get potatoes every -- the menu you know, is something else, but we used to have potatoes almost every day. </sentence><sentence id="869">And for the 50 guards they'd peel the potatoes and they used to cook soup for thousands of, two, three thousands of boys, Jews, laborers. </sentence><sentence id="870">And you were lucky if you get two, three pieces of potato peels with no seasoning, anything. </sentence><sentence id="871">And before you went into the <span class="building">barracks</span>, you got a piece of, small piece of bread. </sentence><sentence id="872">But so many times we used to come back, and even that, couple of piece of potato peel wasn't, it wasn't enough for so many people, so it didn't have 50 to 100 guys, you know, kids, didn't have even that little soup, you know, they called it. </sentence><sentence id="873"><span class="env feature">Water</span>. </sentence><sentence id="874">They were crying they were so young, so young -- used to give them a spoonful, you know, a sip, you know, each of us tried to give them a sip of soup. </sentence><sentence id="875">And our dreams, about food, got was so constant, so constant always. </sentence><sentence id="876">What would you -- what -- how much you could eat -- a loaf " Run (German) of bread. </sentence><sentence id="877">You know, if you ate a loaf of bread. </sentence><sentence id="878">And what else? </sentence><sentence id="879">There was -- there were even lying some of them. </sentence><sentence id="880">There were, were dreams, such stories, you know, about food, you know, what they dreamt about what, what they had, you know, eat in dreams. </sentence><sentence id="881">And they were, they had a -- the Kommandant told -- that was a system that they told us before hand that anybody was trying to escape -- so many times you know, people, kids, they tried to escape from their from their <span class="env feature">environment</span>. </sentence><sentence id="882">So anybody tried to escape their whole <span class="region">area</span>, you know, <span class="building">barrack</span>, would be -- every 10 men will die, you know, into that <span class="region">area</span>, in that <span class="building">barrack</span>. </sentence><sentence id="883">So one night we were at -- it was heavy snow. </sentence><sentence id="884">Temperature must have been 20 degrees below zero, you know, in the <span class="env feature">Alps</span>. </sentence><sentence id="885">And the boys just were staying in <span class="populated place">Appell</span>," you know, <span class="populated place">Appell</span> they used to call. </sentence><sentence id="886">Didn't want to -- some of them said wait for, you know, we begged, you know, to not to go to <span class="building">work</span>, you know. </sentence><sentence id="887">And even the dogs who was, you know, they were hiding you know, next to their handlers. </sentence><sentence id="888">And but the Kommandant came out, "Lauf, you verfluchte Juden." </sentence><sentence id="889">Raus, oder jeden eine wird erschossen.""* " </sentence><sentence id="890">Each and every one of you will be shot." </sentence><sentence id="891">So one of the guys finally got up and said "Raus! </sentence><sentence id="892">Go to Arbeit,""(r) you know, so we ran and we ran and we jumped into the <span class="dlf">trenches</span>. </sentence><sentence id="893">I remember one time I was in this <span class="dlf">trench</span> and I find some, some roots, tasted like potatoes. </sentence><sentence id="894">And I was hiding it in my <span class="spatial object">pocket</span>. </sentence><sentence id="895">I had roots, you know. </sentence><sentence id="896">It was food you know. </sentence><sentence id="897">It wasn't potatoes, but it was some kind of root, but you ta-- you ate anything what you could put in your mouth, and you could have chew it, and it would taste something, you know -- you ate it. </sentence><sentence id="898">You didn't care about what you get diarrhea or whatever. </sentence><sentence id="899">So, so a guard noticed of me, you know, I wasn't working. </sentence><sentence id="900">I was full of roots. </sentence><sentence id="901">And said, "Du bist verfluchter Jude. </sentence><sentence id="902">"(r) Was hast du dorten?"" </sentence><sentence id="903">Was hast du in deine <span class="populated place">Tasche</span>?""* </sentence><sentence id="904">So we had to show, show him the -- and he was angry. </sentence><sentence id="905">He stabbed me in my thigh, upper thigh, and, and hit me with the rifle butts on my left eye. </sentence><sentence id="906">The blood was dripping out and I was -- then I remember of my white roots, so always remembered my white roots. </sentence><sentence id="907">So anyway, we went back to the -- that night we had to run again, shooting as usual. </sentence><sentence id="908">And two of the guys in the blizzard, they tried to escape from our <span class="building">barrack</span>, and the guard caught them with the dog. </sentence><sentence id="909">And they said, "The next morning, every 10 men will be shot." </sentence><sentence id="910">Well, you know, we figured that it's a very high price to pay, you know, for was about 450, 500 people at that time, you know, in our <span class="building">barrack</span>. </sentence><sentence id="911">The rest of them already died. </sentence><sentence id="912">We " Roll call (German). " </sentence><sentence id="913">deg Damned Jews (German) "* Get out, or each one will be shot (German) "S Work (German) "(r) Vou're a damned Jew (German) "7 What do you have over there? ( </sentence><sentence id="914">German) "8 What do you have in your pocket? ( </sentence><sentence id="915">German) had -- 45 men -- hard, hard price to pay for two souls. </sentence><sentence id="916">So the people start praying, davening, you know. " </sentence><sentence id="917">Adonai Hoshienu,""" "Please God, help us," you know that means "Adonai Hoshienu." </sentence><sentence id="918">Pray all night -- it was bent in devotion. </sentence><sentence id="919">So we got out in the freezing and the <span class="building">Kommandant</span> came out. </sentence><sentence id="920">He said to us, "For your punishment," he said, "no tea for one week. </sentence><sentence id="921">No bread for one week." </sentence><sentence id="922">And he said, "This time I'm not going to execute the 45 men, just to show you my good intention," he said. </sentence><sentence id="923">So we were jubilant, you know, nevertheless you know, to one more day, you know, to live one more day, you know. </sentence><sentence id="924">You have an instinct in you, built in. </sentence><sentence id="925">So, but it was, it was in March, and we, I wasn't more than maybe 80 pounds that time and people started developing that from the lice, itching. </sentence><sentence id="926">We had rashes all, all over from the lice and -- but we have about three Jewish doctors in our in our in our <span class="building">barrack</span>. </sentence><sentence id="927">They had no medicine to give us, anything. </sentence><sentence id="928">They were trying to survive themselves. </sentence><sentence id="929">But they didn't want to tell any -- the guards that there was typhus. </sentence><sentence id="930">They knew there the typhus fever from the -- they used to call "<span class="dlf">Fleckfieber</span>,"" "typhus fever," and otherwise they would shoot every-everybody. </sentence><sentence id="931">They usually used to do what, they pour this to hurt -- herd everybody in inside the <span class="building">barrack</span> and pour flammable material, benzene, whatever it is, around the <span class="building">barrack</span> and then -- and burn them. </sentence><sentence id="932">Anybody start to escape, they used to machine gun them down. </sentence><sentence id="933">That was their usual thing, which was the outbreak of the epidemic. </sentence><sentence id="934">So these boys decide to hide. </sentence><sentence id="935">Doctors tried to -- they were trying to hiding the epidemic. </sentence><sentence id="936">So I used to see them, the boys you know, we had -- we used to have a <span class="spatial object">latrine</span> behind this <span class="building">barrack</span> where we used to stay, about 30 feet long and about four, five feet deep and about four feet wide. </sentence><sentence id="937">Used to have a big plank, you know, used to sit down, you know, the <span class="spatial object">latrine</span>. </sentence><sentence id="938">It was open. </sentence><sentence id="939">Everybody could have find it just by the smell. </sentence><sentence id="940">It wasn't well you see, the little, the boys used to go out and sit on the <span class="spatial object">latrine</span> and they were so weak from hunger, sick -- they just fell into and nobody could have helped them. </sentence><sentence id="941">They just tried to come out, you know, from the -- they drowned. </sentence><sentence id="942">They tried -- such a waste. </sentence><sentence id="943">Such a terrible -- to see a human being discarded. </sentence><sentence id="944">And we, we didn't help him, because he was dead already. </sentence><sentence id="945">He was half-dead when he went there. </sentence><sentence id="946">It, it was they would shoot him anyway and to die in a <span class="interior space">latrine</span>. </sentence><sentence id="947">So, the Kommandant used to get some men, you know, from <span class="country">Hungary</span>, you know, from the <span class="populated place">camps</span>, wherever. </sentence><sentence id="948">But the Russian, they were start coming but, you know, they, advancing -- the forces, the Russian forces, you know, in our <span class="region">area</span>. </sentence><sentence id="949">First we thought they are thundering you know. </sentence><sentence id="950">It was in early March. </sentence><sentence id="951">It was maybe rain, thunder. </sentence><sentence id="952">But it wasn't thunder. </sentence><sentence id="953">It was -- it was big guns they were. </sentence><sentence id="954">But nevertheless, finally I came down with the typhus fever myself. </sentence><sentence id="955">And the doctor said to me, "I...." Said to me -- came to me, I -- deg Lord, save us (Hebrew) *0 Typhus (German) said, "Look, you can't go out to work anymore. </sentence><sentence id="956">We will take care of you." </sentence><sentence id="957">I knew what's the story. </sentence><sentence id="958">I wasn't more than 70 pounds, I suppose, at that time. </sentence><sentence id="959">Was all bones. </sentence><sentence id="960">So that just before the Kommandant said to us, that he want to raise the bread and, and the tea -- "We'll give you more if you work more." </sentence><sentence id="961">They couldn't get anymore men. </sentence><sentence id="962">But it was too late. </sentence><sentence id="963">We couldn't help. </sentence><sentence id="964">We were lethargic. </sentence><sentence id="965">We didn't care about things then at that point. </sentence><sentence id="966">And then when I got sick, he told me to stay <span class="building">home</span>, "Stay here. </sentence><sentence id="967">We'll take care of you." </sentence><sentence id="968">And that was the last thing I heard. </sentence><sentence id="969">I was on the -- I couldn't get up from the, from the <span class="spatial object">bunk</span>. </sentence><sentence id="970">And I remember that I felt it was so beautiful. </sentence><sentence id="971">I felt so serene, relaxed. </sentence><sentence id="972">I didn't care about a thing anymore. </sentence><sentence id="973">Even, and I just figured that, "This is end of my journey." </sentence><sentence id="974">And evidently I lost conscious. </sentence><sentence id="975">The only -- when I woke up, I woke up from a smell. </sentence><sentence id="976">I don't know how long I was unconscious, maybe a day or two, but if because if I would have been alive, they would have shot me, or stabbed me with the bayonets stabbed, would have killed me. </sentence><sentence id="977">But -- the Russian forces that came so rapid-rapidly they advanced -- they had to pull out fast. </sentence><sentence id="978">And they didn't have much time to look around. </sentence><sentence id="979">Maybe I was -- I didn't have any motion. </sentence><sentence id="980">Didn't show any motion in where I was. </sentence><sentence id="981">Probably, I was ina coma, in a temporary coma, whatever. </sentence><sentence id="982">And they left me. </sentence><sentence id="983">When I woke up, that I, from the smell. </sentence><sentence id="984">What happened is that I was, when I was on the <span class="spatial object">bunk</span> on the sleeping ,or sta-- laying down, there was a little <span class="dlf">hole</span> for air, you know, on the <span class="dlf">wall</span> -- not a <span class="dlf">window</span>, just a little <span class="dlf">hole</span>. </sentence><sentence id="985">So through that <span class="dlf">hole</span> the bombs they exploded in the <span class="interior space">latrine</span> and sprayed the, the life-giving ammonia smell on me. </sentence><sentence id="986">Was all covered with the feces, of human feces. </sentence><sentence id="987">And I woke up from the smell. </sentence><sentence id="988">And I looked around. </sentence><sentence id="989">I couldn't move. </sentence><sentence id="990">I was very sick. </sentence><sentence id="991">And I saw hundreds of bodies of boys that di-- they were dead, dead. </sentence><sentence id="992">Motionless in a form of different grotesque of motioning -- you know, they was frozen. </sentence><sentence id="993">And I looked to the <span class="dlf">door</span>. </sentence><sentence id="994">I saw a man in uniform at the <span class="dlf">door</span>. </sentence><sentence id="995">He didn't come in. </sentence><sentence id="996">He was afraid to come in, with a, with a sub-machine gun. </sentence><sentence id="997">And I saw him. </sentence><sentence id="998">He was motioning at me to come outside. </sentence><sentence id="999">Well, I was trying to get out, get down. </sentence><sentence id="1000">You know, I was the third <span class="spatial object">bunk</span> you know. </sentence><sentence id="1001">I was -- I couldn't come down, was so weak. </sentence><sentence id="1002">But finally about a couple of hours later I finally came down. </sentence><sentence id="1003">I fainted I don't know how many times. </sentence><sentence id="1004">You know, I came down from the, from the <span class="spatial object">bunk</span>, and I finally got to the <span class="dlf">door</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1005">He never touched me. </sentence><sentence id="1006">This, a couple of soldiers came around, and they looked inside. </sentence><sentence id="1007">They saw all the dead bodies and they were afraid, you know, to come inside. </sentence><sentence id="1008">So I said to -- they asked me, you know, things but I didn't understand them. </sentence><sentence id="1009">I, first of all, I couldn't hear. </sentence><sentence id="1010">And I didn't have hair. </sentence><sentence id="1011">They lost that's a symptom of the fleck typhus -- you loose your hearing and they're finding out later that and you loose your hearing and you loose your hair. </sentence><sentence id="1012">But I have, still have the yellow armband on me. </sentence><sentence id="1013">So a couple of -- I couldn't hear them but I, the couple of words I know from a friend of mine -- they were Slovak and they and I know "yid2!"Zid, Zid," you know -- I know what this means? </sentence><sentence id="1014">Means "Jew, Jew." </sentence><sentence id="1015">And they understood "Zid," because the, the Russians, they, they know what "zid" is. </sentence><sentence id="1016">They used that many times themselves. </sentence><sentence id="1017">So, so they talked to me but I didn't understand them. </sentence><sentence id="1018">So one of them 21 Jew (Slovakian) gave me a piece of bread and a piece of bacon, you know, to me. </sentence><sentence id="1019">Luckily I couldn't eat. </sentence><sentence id="1020">I couldn't eat. </sentence><sentence id="1021">I was -- that was my main luck, but it was good luck I couldn't eat because I would have, if I would have eat a piece of bacon and would have killed me. </sentence><sentence id="1022">I found out that later, but I don't know why -- I just couldn't eat. </sentence><sentence id="1023">So he was motioning to me to go back to the -- there were <span class="dlf">front lines</span> there. </sentence><sentence id="1024">The <span class="dlf">Russian line</span> was in <span class="dlf">trenches</span> on one side and the <span class="region">German other side</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1025">They were cross firing at each other. </sentence><sentence id="1026">And I'm telling you I was walking right across between the crossfire without a scratch. </sentence><sentence id="1027">And one time a Russian soldier motioning at me to come to him, and he want to tell me something. </sentence><sentence id="1028">But I couldn't hear him, hear. </sentence><sentence id="1029">He wanted me to lay low. </sentence><sentence id="1030">I didn't know what he was talking about. </sentence><sentence id="1031">Like I said, I was going every 10, 15 feet I had to sit down. </sentence><sentence id="1032">I couldn't. </sentence><sentence id="1033">I was very weak from the sickness. </sentence><sentence id="1034">So I was -- I remember I walked through the <span class="region">no-man's land</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1035">And finally I walked all day I suppose, because I remember about one and half or two kilometers you know and came to this <span class="building">artillery position</span> this <span class="building">Russian artillery position</span>, and this guy, and this Russian saw me the yellow star, yellow armband. </sentence><sentence id="1036">He wants to give me a loaf, gave me a loaf of bread and a piece of bacon. </sentence><sentence id="1037">I remember holding that loaf of bread and piece of bacon. </sentence><sentence id="1038">I was squeezing to my body. </sentence><sentence id="1039">It was all mine. </sentence><sentence id="1040">You know, it was something else, you know, that piece of bread you know. </sentence><sentence id="1041">So I was going back that -- it was a <span class="dlf">front line</span>, you know. </sentence><sentence id="1042">We, I wanted to get away from as far as I can because any minute, you know, the, the counter-attack it could come from the German and it was bad to worse, you know. </sentence><sentence id="1043">So, I went to went to -- finally I went to few kilometers. </sentence><sentence id="1044">Constantly harassing, you know, the Russians -- they were asking identification. </sentence><sentence id="1045">Many times just looked at, looked at me and they looked, search in my <span class="spatial object">pocket</span> -- they find a piece of bread. </sentence><sentence id="1046">They just let me let me go further back to <span class="country">Hungary</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1047">You know, it was still in <span class="country">Austria</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1048">But one day I got into this <span class="building">headquarters</span>, a <span class="building">Russian headquarters</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1049">I didn't know I where I was. </sentence><sentence id="1050">I was -- I sat down on the <span class="interior space">floor</span> and they wanted to, wanted to know what I was doing there, you know, the Russians. </sentence><sentence id="1051">So one officer came out and he said to me, "Du bist ein Jude?"" </sentence><sentence id="1052">in German. </sentence><sentence id="1053">I said to him, "Jawohl, jawohl.""* </sentence><sentence id="1054">I could have hear a little, little bit because it was a few days after, after the, I was liberated. " </sentence><sentence id="1055">Ich bin ein Jude." </sentence><sentence id="1056">Then I said to him, "Shema Israel." </sentence><sentence id="1057">So he said "Shema Israel," himself . </sentence><sentence id="1058">So he got me a horse and <span class="spatial object">wagon</span> with a soldier, Russian soldiers, and without a stop that horse and <span class="spatial object">wagon</span> took me about 20 kilometers to the <span class="dlf">Hungarian border</span>, to <span class="building">Red Cross</span>, to -- you know, for <span class="building">hospital</span> for Russian soldiers or some civilians. </sentence><sentence id="1059">Over there in the <span class="building">hospital</span> they de-liced me, you know, and washed me and they told me that next day they're going to ship me over to <span class="country">Hungary</span>, you know, on that <span class="region">side</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1060">So following day they took me over to the <span class="building">veteran's hospital</span> and they want to give us food you know but lucky I couldn't eat. </sentence><sentence id="1061">They were hundreds of hundreds of Jewish boys. </sentence><sentence id="1062">They were somehow they escaped the <span class="populated place">concentration camps</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1063">They were eating and eating " Are you a Jew? ( </sentence><sentence id="1064">German) 23 Yes, sir (German) "Tama Jew (German) and eating. </sentence><sentence id="1065">They were dying and dying and dying. </sentence><sentence id="1066">They were died -- hundreds of them, by the thousands. </sentence><sentence id="1067">They would -- "til they realized what's the problem. </sentence><sentence id="1068">You know -- they were all over-eating. </sentence><sentence id="1069">And I feel like a million dollar you know -- they gave me a cup you know to -- and there was no lice on me or torment -- our tormented bodies, you know, was shrunken to like a just a little boy. </sentence><sentence id="1070">But I wanted to go <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1071">I didn't know if anybody's, anybody came back you know. </sentence><sentence id="1072">First it was 200 kilometer to go to <span class="populated place">Budapest</span>, you know, because from <span class="country">Austria</span> to go <span class="populated place">Budapest</span> is 200 kilometers, and from <span class="populated place">Budapest</span> to my <span class="populated place">town</span> is another 200 kilometers, that's -- and in wartime they couldn't get the <span class="spatial object">transportation</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1073">It was -- everything was for war effort. </sentence><sentence id="1074">And but one day -- I was there in the <span class="building">hospital</span> maybe 10 days, and my gain, my weight gained about -- I was at least eighty pounds at that time. </sentence><sentence id="1075">So I left. </sentence><sentence id="1076">I didn't have clothes on me, because they destroyed all my clothes because all they infested, you know, with lice, so on the Schwester,"> got me some old clothes from two, three sizes larger than -- she felt sorry for me. </sentence><sentence id="1077">But nevertheless I had something on. </sentence><sentence id="1078">So I was walking there and a boy came with a horse, one horse and <span class="spatial object">wagon</span>, and stopped and said to me, Hungarian said, "You want to get a ride? </sentence><sentence id="1079">Where are you going?" </sentence><sentence id="1080">I said, "I go, you know, toward <span class="populated place">Budapest</span>." </sentence><sentence id="1081">He said, "Come." </sentence><sentence id="1082">So he pulled me up, said, "Well, where, where have you been?" </sentence><sentence id="1083">He said, "I was nearby in this <span class="populated place">concentration camp</span>." </sentence><sentence id="1084">He escaped. </sentence><sentence id="1085">He said he was hiding in the <span class="spatial object">haystack</span> and luckily the -- didn't burn, you know, the <span class="spatial object">haystack</span>, and he, he escaped. </sentence><sentence id="1086">Usually it was a large <span class="spatial object">haystack</span>, because they would they were going with the <span class="spatial object">bayonet</span> many times you know all around just to make sure you know nobody in inside, but he was evidently miss him. </sentence><sentence id="1087">And didn't burn, so he escaped by chance, you know. </sentence><sentence id="1088">But we went to this <span class="populated place">village</span> and the Russians patrol stopped us. </sentence><sentence id="1089">Says, says -- starts talking to us. </sentence><sentence id="1090">Not, not four letter words, but 10 letter words, you know. " </sentence><sentence id="1091">You so and so," you know. </sentence><sentence id="1092">"Where you get the horse? </sentence><sentence id="1093">Where are you going?" </sentence><sentence id="1094">So the other boy, he spoke a little Slovak. </sentence><sentence id="1095">Slovak and Russian are similar, you know, Slovak language. </sentence><sentence id="1096">So, so the sol-- the Russian soldier -- before he finish his -- all the sentence, we jumped off from the -- from horse and <span class="spatial object">wagon</span>, said, "You can have the horse and <span class="spatial object">wagon</span>." </sentence><sentence id="1097">They will shoot us, you know, the it was, the lawlessness was law, you know, those days and the strong was the -- weak was the pawn you know and the strong was the rule -- the ruler. </sentence><sentence id="1098">But nevertheless, I always -- I'm grateful to the Russians. </sentence><sentence id="1099">They were the ones they liberate-liberated me, you know, the even though -- because the politic is -- the politic is something else, yet. </sentence><sentence id="1100">This is something else, you know. </sentence><sentence id="1101">Nevertheless, they saved, they saved my life. </sentence><sentence id="1102">If they didn't come in days or hours sometimes you know made a big difference between life and death. </sentence><sentence id="1103">So we got some somehow we got on this <span class="building">station</span>, got into this <span class="building">Hungarian station</span>, <span class="spatial object">train</span> deg> <span class="building">Nurse (German) station</span> and we find this <span class="spatial object">freight train</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1104">You know, there are a lot of <span class="spatial object">boxcars</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1105">We asked the <span class="building">stationmaster</span> we could hitch a ride. </sentence><sentence id="1106">Said, "Go ahead." </sentence><sentence id="1107">So we didn't we didn't know which way the <span class="spatial object">train</span> goes. </sentence><sentence id="1108">We want to go, get away from there the worst way. </sentence><sentence id="1109">We got into this <span class="populated place">town</span> and there were thousands and thousands of people Hungarians. </sentence><sentence id="1110">They were trying to get a ride you know. </sentence><sentence id="1111">It was <span class="spatial object">transportation</span> was unheard, you know at that time. </sentence><sentence id="1112">But they were -- everybody wanted to go <span class="building">home</span>, you know. </sentence><sentence id="1113">So finally, we got on this <span class="spatial object">train</span>, was heading, heading someplace. </sentence><sentence id="1114">Everybody jumped in, jumped on the in the <span class="spatial object">boxcars</span> and the flat <span class="spatial object">train</span> you know, the flat <span class="spatial object">boxcars</span>, you know. </sentence><sentence id="1115">You saw them for <span class="spatial object">tanks</span> you know. </sentence><sentence id="1116">Many times they used to used them for <span class="spatial object">tank carriers</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1117">I remember one -- I was sitting at the edge of the one night we were going and there was sitting 100 people, 120 people -- I don't know how many could have sit or, or hang on to this to this <span class="spatial object">flat car</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1118">And I was sitting on the edge, and the <span class="spatial object">train</span> was going slow but was shaking up and down, and I fell. </sentence><sentence id="1119">I remember, fell between that the -- the <span class="spatial object">train</span> I mean on the on the -- so I somehow I threw myself out between the <span class="dlf">tracks</span>, because it was go slow, but instinct, I throw myself out. </sentence><sentence id="1120">They pulled me back, you know. </sentence><sentence id="1121">They couldn't kill me you know. </sentence><sentence id="1122">So well finally we had so much tsuris, you know, we, we took days, but we got into <span class="populated place">Budapest</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1123">And I had an uncle in <span class="populated place">Buda</span>, in, in, in <span class="populated place">Buda</span>, before the war, and his wife and two, two of, of, of their children. </sentence><sentence id="1124">I figured maybe they're <span class="building">home</span>, you know. </sentence><sentence id="1125">We didn't know what happened. </sentence><sentence id="1126">So I got it; I knew their address. </sentence><sentence id="1127">So to me, I was dressed, you know, I would look like I had a piece of rope tied around my -- with waist with holding my, my coat. </sentence><sentence id="1128">It was large, and most, most of the Christians, they thought I'm coming from the <span class="building">home</span> from the <span class="populated place">prisoners of war camp</span> or something. </sentence><sentence id="1129">So I, I got into there, there, to my uncle's place to walk, and, and my uncle was <span class="building">home</span> and my, my aunt was <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1130">They, they somehow survived. </sentence><sentence id="1131">They went to the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> of <span class="populated place">Budapest</span> and other -- and they, they wait around. </sentence><sentence id="1132">They have some, they bought some papers from the, from -- they got some papers from the Swedish government with something, I don't know. </sentence><sentence id="1133">They, they survived under the pho- under the Christian name, you know. </sentence><sentence id="1134">They were hiding. </sentence><sentence id="1135">But they, they were just by luck, you know. </sentence><sentence id="1136">If the war would have lasted a little longer, they would have been dead also you know. </sentence><sentence id="1137">It was just the timing, it was important. </sentence><sentence id="1138">And when they saw me, they first didn't recognize me right away. </sentence><sentence id="1139">And they saw, she starts screaming, Aunt Margit, "It's you Miklos!" </sentence><sentence id="1140">We call -- Hungarians used to call me "Mikles." </sentence><sentence id="1141">Oh, how I looked ter- terrible, I looked. </sentence><sentence id="1142">And she starts screaming about that, because their two, they have two daughters that didn't come <span class="building">home</span> from the -- from that time which was in April, and, and the war was still going on all over. </sentence><sentence id="1143">And they asked, and they are screaming that even I came <span class="building">home</span> already and their children, you know, their parents are you know, the, the -- their children they didn't come and somebody else came <span class="building">home</span>, you know. </sentence><sentence id="1144">But nevertheless, she was all right. </sentence><sentence id="1145">She was -- cooked some something, some, some, some food for me, and I ate some food. </sentence><sentence id="1146"> And -- but to go <span class="building">home</span>, you know, from <span class="populated place">Budapest</span>, from that was -- that it was a terrible thing from, from my <span class="populated place">home-hometown</span> because the <span class="dlf">railroad</span> was, it was bombed and it was it took a lot of time, you know, to repair and, and that time. </sentence><sentence id="1147">And so we slowly but, slowly but surely -- many times, we -- the, the <span class="spatial object">train</span> had to stop and, and, and the Russian soldiers came and identification and, and they used to select some young, young people for, for the war effort, you know. </sentence><sentence id="1148">They all shipped them to -- the war prisoners -- to, to <span class="country">Russia</span> or they, they used them first for labor, for, for, for laborers, you know, for whatever reason it is. </sentence><sentence id="1149">Many times they start shooting, you know, indiscriminately, to scare the population. </sentence><sentence id="1150">There was no-nobody could have say "no," you know. </sentence><sentence id="1151">They, they couldn't say anything. </sentence><sentence id="1152">They, they were the rulers that time in, in <span class="country">Hungary</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1153">And their atrocities was terrible, you know -- the <span class="country">Russian</span> atrocities, you know. </sentence><sentence id="1154">But -- and the, the wounded or whatever was laying around by 10s of 10s of wounded. </sentence><sentence id="1155">No one could have helped them. </sentence><sentence id="1156">Was screaming, all over the, the place. </sentence><sentence id="1157">But, I remember my, my uncle gave me 100 peng. </sentence><sentence id="1158">At that time that value was -- maybe I could have buy three kilogram of bread, you know, for it. </sentence><sentence id="1159">And he told me that, "When you have enough money," you know, to give it back to him, because they didn't have enough. </sentence><sentence id="1160">So, I said "sure." </sentence><sentence id="1161">So on the way <span class="building">home</span>, so I used that 100 peng6 to buy a little bread, you know. </sentence><sentence id="1162">For, for money you can always get something, you know, for the, for the <span class="building">black market</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1163">So sometimes I even bought an onion, an onion to, to season up the, the my menu, you know, the pie-- little bread and onion. </sentence><sentence id="1164">And finally I got <span class="building">home</span>, and you'd be surprised that it was 400 kilometers from the, from the <span class="dlf">front line</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1165">It was, the life was going on just like, just like nor-- it was normal, but very, very normal. </sentence><sentence id="1166">Like, you know, we go to buy things. </sentence><sentence id="1167">So first I, I went to -- I went, I remember stopped the <span class="spatial object">train</span> and all my memories came to me. </sentence><sentence id="1168">You know, I was -- want go <span class="building">home</span>, because my uncle didn't know if anybody lived in my, my, my <span class="building">home</span> because they didn't have communication, didn't have telephone. </sentence><sentence id="1169">Nobody had <span class="spatial object">telephone</span> those days. </sentence><sentence id="1170">So, I, I went <span class="building">home</span> and it was in the evening, and I find -- I met on the main <span class="dlf">street</span> -- it was a small <span class="populated place">town</span>, you know, my -- I find a friend of mine, was grown up. </sentence><sentence id="1171">His name also was Laci. </sentence><sentence id="1172">So, we start crying each other, you know. </sentence><sentence id="1173">Although at first didn't recognize, didn't recognize me, you know. </sentence><sentence id="1174">Asked him, anybody <span class="building">home</span>, you know because we were 1,200 Jews. </sentence><sentence id="1175">So, we ordered, we 12 of us here, <span class="building">home</span> from the 1,200, 12 people, all between 21, 22, 23 years old. </sentence><sentence id="1176">As he said to me, "Come to me. </sentence><sentence id="1177">Sleep with, sleep in my place," he said. </sentence><sentence id="1178">He, he was freed in January, and this was in April already, so he got married. </sentence><sentence id="1179">He married a girl, and he slept over one night. </sentence><sentence id="1180">And said, "Tomorrow morning, he said, "Go and see. </sentence><sentence id="1181">Go to your place and see what happened." </sentence><sentence id="1182">So next morning I went to my father's <span class="building">house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1183">The <span class="building">houses</span> was built, you know; it was all <span class="building">mud houses</span> you know. </sentence><sentence id="1184">It -- was like made from mud bricks, the <span class="building">house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1185">It -- with <span class="dlf">hay roof</span>, you know, it many other had -- some of them had <span class="dlf">clay roofs</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1186">Some of them had some other <span class="dlf">roof</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1187">Many of them had just <span class="env feature">straw</span>, like a <span class="building">hut</span>, looked like a, a.... Anyway, I went to my <span class="building">house</span>, father's <span class="building">house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1188">Was of course nobody there. </sentence><sentence id="1189">They, they took all, even the <span class="dlf">window frames</span> out, you know. </sentence><sentence id="1190"><span class="dlf">Doors</span> was caved in. </sentence><sentence id="1191">They took everything. </sentence><sentence id="1192">The Christians -- as the Jews left you know, the, the, the place -- took the Jews away from the, the <span class="populated place">shtetl</span>, you know, from the little <span class="populated place">villages</span>, the Christians went in and you know, ransacked the place. </sentence><sentence id="1193">They were looking for valuables and whatever. </sentence><sentence id="1194">And they took everything -- what <span class="spatial object">furniture</span>, whatever they had. </sentence><sentence id="1195">So didn't find, didn't find anything so and went to my grandfather's <span class="building">house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1196">My, my un-- my aunt used to live, my cousins used to -- there was nobody, nobody <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1197">There were only 12 people. </sentence><sentence id="1198">So I went to the <span class="dlf">cemetery</span> from there. </sentence><sentence id="1199">My grandparents were there. </sentence><sentence id="1200">My one brother was buried -- pay respect. </sentence><sentence id="1201">But luckily we had a Joint" organization in, in that time already in, in <span class="country">Hungary</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1202">And they supplied -- they had a <span class="interior space">soup kitchen</span> in my <span class="populated place">town</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1203">They gave us two weeks free food, I mean lunch, just hot lunch, you know. </sentence><sentence id="1204">Just, just one meal, you know, whatever. </sentence><sentence id="1205">But it was good enough. </sentence><sentence id="1206">I know, I always proud of this Joint organization. </sentence><sentence id="1207">But they helped all, all the, the -- helped not just Jews, but helped Christians also. </sentence><sentence id="1208">You know, the <span class="building">Jewish Federation</span>."" </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1639">Q: How long did you did you stay in your <span class="populated place">town</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
|
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1641">A: Not, not too long. </sentence><sentence id="1642">I stay, I stayed actually for many, many months, because I was waiting for somebody to come, come <span class="building">home</span> and waiting for my girlfriend to come <span class="building">home</span>, because I was in love with her. </sentence><sentence id="1643">So slowly but surely but people, the, the kids start coming <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1644">Finally my, I heard my sister is alive, from <span class="populated place">Budapest</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1645">Somebody said. </sentence><sentence id="1646">Went to see her to the <span class="building">terminal</span>, but every time I went there, she didn't come. </sentence><sentence id="1647">Finally I, one time I didn't go. </sentence><sentence id="1648">She, she was in my place, in my <span class="building">house</span>, not in my <span class="building">house</span> -- it's somebody else's <span class="building">house</span> I, I lived for only one day for, for a time being. </sentence><sentence id="1649">She was sitting there. </sentence><sentence id="1650">She was crying, crying, and my girlfriend came <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1651">I was very happy to -- you know, it was, you know, it was, she was -- after four months the war, you know, the, the war was over already four months, so you know, I suppose I was sure she was dead already. </sentence><sentence id="1652">But nevertheless she, she came back. </sentence><sentence id="1653">She was already 18. </sentence><sentence id="1654">And we came back, 72 total of the 1,200 Jews, Jews. </sentence><sentence id="1655">Only kids, you know, like us -- 72 people. </sentence><sentence id="1656">That means 1,130, 30 some died, died. </sentence><sentence id="1657">So, so we figured that our lives wouldn't be just right in, in, in, in <span class="country">Hungary</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1658">And I -- and the Christians start getting antisemitic again. </sentence><sentence id="1659">Too many of us came back, they said. </sentence><sentence id="1660">Too many of us. </sentence><sentence id="1661">So -- and the Zionist organization became very active in <span class="country">Hungary</span>, and they told us anybody wants to go to <span class="country">Palestine</span>, they help us to go to <span class="country">Palestine</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1662">But first we had to go to <span class="country">Germany</span>, because from there was it was impossible to go and they gonna help us go to <span class="country">Germany</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1663">So we decided we had our engagement money, my, my girlfriend and I in, in my <span class="populated place">hometown</span>, so a few people was there. </sentence><sentence id="1664">And decided we go to, we decided we degdeg American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee *7 Council of Jewish Federations and Welfare Funds going to, we going to escape from, from <span class="country">Hungary</span> to, to <span class="country">Austria</span> first, and then, then <span class="country">Germany</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1665">But it wasn't so simple. </sentence><sentence id="1666">So we went to the Bri-- the B'richa(tm)(r) helped, helped us. </sentence><sentence id="1667">They gave us <span class="building">shelter</span> in <span class="populated place">Budapest</span> first. </sentence><sentence id="1668">I'm telling you -- these guys, they were deserve a medal. </sentence><sentence id="1669">This -- the, the, the, the <span class="building">B'richa</span>, they, they are dedicated personally and nothing could have stopped them. </sentence><sentence id="1670">But it -- we were too anxious to leave <span class="country">Hungary</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1671">We decided -- seven of us, without the B'richa, we -- one, one night, we got on the tra-- we got on the <span class="spatial object">train</span> and went to, to the <span class="dlf">border</span>, <span class="dlf">Austria-Hungarian border</span>, and border guards stopped us. </sentence><sentence id="1672">They said, "Where are you going?" </sentence><sentence id="1673">I said, "We want to...," start lying, said, "we want to pray at the <span class="dlf">grave site</span>," you know, a lot of <span class="dlf">graves</span>, <span class="dlf">Jewish graves</span> in <span class="country">Austria</span> -- and we want to take care of the <span class="dlf">graves</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1674">He let us go. </sentence><sentence id="1675">At night, we slipped through the Hungarian, <span class="dlf">Austria-Hungarian border</span> but that, that time, it wasn't just simple to just go to the Hungarian and <span class="dlf">German line</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1676">There were the <span class="dlf">British line</span>, there were the <span class="dlf">Russian line</span> -- you name it, there was somebody. </sentence><sentence id="1677">They were all patrols you had had to go through you know. </sentence><sentence id="1678">Many times we had to, had to bribe or to give him, we had some, we knew about this, you know. </sentence><sentence id="1679">We had a bottle of schnapps, you know, to a bottle of booze, you know -- give them to a guard and they let us go through. </sentence><sentence id="1680">But finally we, we nevertheless we one night we slipped through the, the, the <span class="dlf">lines</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1681">We got into this German, this little <span class="populated place">Dorf</span>," <span class="populated place">village</span>, and we almost got arrested there because this Biirgermeister*" wanted to know what we're doing there. </sentence><sentence id="1682">I said we came here to pray for the dead Jews. </sentence><sentence id="1683">But we find out that he cannot see. </sentence><sentence id="1684">He couldn't see. </sentence><sentence id="1685">He was blind, the Biirgermeister. " </sentence><sentence id="1686">The Hell with you Jews," he said. </sentence><sentence id="1687">So one guy at the <span class="dlf">door</span>, he said to us -- said to some of them, he said, "Go to this, to this" -- it wasn't a <span class="env feature">forest</span>, it was some <span class="env feature">trees</span>, "just hide behind it, and a <span class="spatial object">truck</span> will come by and will pick you up." </sentence><sentence id="1688">That was the <span class="dlf">B'richa</span>, on the other side, other side -- it, it was in, in <span class="country">Austria</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1689">And so we did. </sentence><sentence id="1690">We got into, we got into this little <span class="env feature">trees</span>, you know, <span class="env feature">bushes</span> or <span class="env feature">trees</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1691">We hi-- we were hiding there and a <span class="spatial object">truck</span> stopped there. </sentence><sentence id="1692">We, we were seven, eight of us -- I don" know how many of us --nine of us, young. </sentence><sentence id="1693">We jumped on the <span class="spatial object">truck</span> and that <span class="spatial object">truck</span> didn't, they, they have many of, of ,of Jews, you know, Jewish boys like me and girls, and they took us to the, the <span class="building">Rothschild Hospital</span> in, in, in <span class="populated place">Vienna</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1694">When we -- there we were, we were -- that was a safe <span class="building">house</span> for the, the Jews that time, you know, in, in 1945 -- in 19 -- 1946. </sentence><sentence id="1695">It was in -- it was in May 1946. </sentence><sentence id="1696">So, from there they gave us food and give gave us cigarettes and a few shillings. </sentence><sentence id="1697">And from there -- were there about 10, 15 days, 20 days, they shipped us to another <span class="populated place">camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1698">You know, it was a <span class="populated place">DP camp</span> of, of <span class="populated place">Enns</span> and <span class="populated place">Salzburg</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1699">Were there a few days, and we -- and from <span class="populated place">Salzburg</span> they took us. </sentence><sentence id="1700">They gave us a different names, so you had to go through and accustomed to it, but we nevertheless we had to cross, there was a <span class="env feature">river</span>, small <span class="env feature">river</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1701">And during the early morning the B'richa had to go, waded through the, the <span class="env feature">river</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1702">So one guy -- first one guy, one girl, you know, the strong -- was like, like a 8 flight (Hebrew), organized underground evacuation of Jews from post-war <span class="region">Eastern Europe</span>. " </sentence><sentence id="1703"><span class="populated place">Village</span> (German) %0 Mayor (German) chain, you know, we were. </sentence><sentence id="1704">And whatever we had we had to hold it over our heads, so we could -- the <span class="env feature">water</span> was up to here, to, to almost to our neck. </sentence><sentence id="1705">So we went to the other <span class="region">side</span>, that was <span class="country">Germany</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1706">I mean <span class="country">Germany</span> was like a haven already for the, for the Jews. </sentence><sentence id="1707">It was a <span class="populated place">DP camps</span>, you know, or, or a <span class="populated place">displaced person camps</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1708">Once we get there, they just took our name -- you know, gave everybody whatever they have, you know, some, a <span class="spatial object">cot</span> and blanket and, and food -- they didn't give us maybe 1,400 calories a day -- I don't know -- or was it 1,800, I don't know exactly. </sentence><sentence id="1709">They used to call they used to call us <span class="populated place">Haferflocken</span>.*" </sentence><sentence id="1710">Do you know what a <span class="building">Haferflocken</span> is? </sentence><sentence id="1711">It's like oatmeal, you know. </sentence><sentence id="1712">We, we never used to get in <span class="country">Hungary</span>, that that kind of food, never used to get food and oatmeal. </sentence><sentence id="1713">So nevertheless was food. </sentence><sentence id="1714">Was very good. </sentence><sentence id="1715">I mean, I remember we didn't, didn't complain, but, but they asked us, "Well, where you want to go? </sentence><sentence id="1716">Where you want to work?" </sentence><sentence id="1717">You know, we -- you get extra food if you work in, in the <span class="populated place">camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1718">I says, "fine." </sentence><sentence id="1719">So we -- so, I find out I this <span class="populated place">camp</span> is they used to call it <span class="populated place">Bad Reichenhal</span>, this <span class="populated place">DP camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1720">And I find out there's another <span class="populated place">camp</span>, it's a better <span class="populated place">camp</span>, you know, the <span class="populated place">DP camps</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1721">So, so you know, the kids who like better things. </sentence><sentence id="1722">So it's called <span class="populated place">Leipheim</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1723">So it was located between <span class="populated place">Ulm</span> and <span class="populated place">Augsburg</span>; it was a <span class="populated place">town</span> next to the, maybe hundreds of feet from the, the <span class="env feature">Danube</span>, because the <span class="env feature">Danube</span> originated from there -- <span class="env feature">Black Forest</span>, in not, not, not far from us, about 20 kilometers from us. </sentence><sentence id="1724">So I joined the, the -- they took us, but at first didn't want to take us but with a little bribery, you know -- human nature is like that. </sentence><sentence id="1725">You know, we give them, give them a dollar, you know. </sentence><sentence id="1726">They were, we were accepted, you know, in this, this <span class="populated place">Lager</span>" is called. </sentence><sentence id="1727">So, so I got a job working in, in the <span class="env feature">Black Forest</span> as a as a lumberjack. </sentence><sentence id="1728">So we got some food and, and, and <span class="building">Zulage</span>, > we used to call it, the <span class="building">Zulage</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1729">You know, extra, a little food extra, a little cigarettes and what not. </sentence><sentence id="1730">So I, I worked there for, for a long time. </sentence><sentence id="1731">Then I find out that another -- I find out another good job is a policeman, so I went to <span class="populated place">Stuttgart</span>, the pol-- the <span class="building">police academy</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1732">And I was trained as a policeman in, in the, in the -- in <span class="populated place">Stuttgart</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1733">So, I went back to <span class="populated place">Leipheim</span> policeman and so I, I didn't have to stay in <span class="dlf">line</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1734">You know, we you had to stay in <span class="dlf">line</span> for food, everything, but as a policeman, you know, you just pushed them on the side. </sentence><sentence id="1735">You know, I got so it was, it was, it was, you know, was much better already. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1835">Q: Because time is running short, I just need to ask you to condense it a little bit. </sentence><sentence id="1836">Can you tell me how long you stayed in this <span class="populated place">camp</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1839">A: Well I -- we, we were, we were in this <span class="populated place">DP camp</span> for three years. </sentence><sentence id="1840">Three years. </sentence><sentence id="1841">After three *" Oatmeal (German) *? </sentence><sentence id="1842"><span class="populated place">Camp</span> (German) 3 Allowance (German) years, because they didn't allow too man-- too many refugees to go to <span class="country">United States</span> -- I wanted to come to <span class="country">America</span> because I had two brothers in <span class="country">America</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1843">One brother came, one brother came before I was born. </sentence><sentence id="1844">Another brother came in 1939, just in nick of the time, before the Holocaust. </sentence><sentence id="1845">So they had, they had a <span class="building">restaurant</span> -- they called <span class="building">restaurant</span> -- and they sent me an affidavit. </sentence><sentence id="1846">First I wanted, we wanted to go to <span class="country">Palestine</span>, but said -- they said, "You have to come <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1847">Have to come to <span class="country">America</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1848">Have to come to us," because they have some family. </sentence><sentence id="1849">We have uncles and, and cousins and everybody in <span class="country">America</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1850">So we came to <span class="country">America</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1851">And they sent me an affidavit as a "counterman." </sentence><sentence id="1852">You know, but we didn't know what's a counterman because we didn't speak English. </sentence><sentence id="1853">But so one -- I had a translator, you know, translated -- he knew a little English, he trans-- he told me that counterman is, is a very important position. </sentence><sentence id="1854">He says he says it's next to a boss, you know, next to a man, you know, that owns a <span class="building">restaurant</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1855">So, I was bragging to everybody. </sentence><sentence id="1856">I was going to everybody, I was going to be a counterman in <span class="country">America</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1857">So I arrived to finally arrived to <span class="country">America</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1858">We arrived to <span class="dlf">Boston Harbor</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1859">I'm telling you that was the first <span class="spatial object">ship</span>, <span class="spatial object">refugee ship</span> came, came to <span class="country">America</span>, 1949. </sentence><sentence id="1860">This February 11, 19 -- 1949, to <span class="populated place">Boston</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1861">We were treated like royalties on the on the <span class="spatial object">ship</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1862">But I couldn't eat. </sentence><sentence id="1863">It was So, we were coming 11 days and we had a terrible storm on the, on the -- all of us, 11,000 ton little <span class="spatial object">ship</span>, and it was -- everybody was seasick. </sentence><sentence id="1864">You know, the -- was good food, you know, what had was wasted, wasted. </sentence><sentence id="1865">It was a terrible thing. </sentence><sentence id="1866">How many times when it was time to get up, you know, and I go to the <span class="spatial object">table</span>, you know, to, to eat -- couldn't eat. </sentence><sentence id="1867">Throwing up. </sentence><sentence id="1868">But nevertheless, we came to the -- we came and we finally arrived and I was waiting for, who's going to wait for us. </sentence><sentence id="1869">So, my brother Joe was waiting for us, alone, in <span class="populated place">Boston</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1870">He, he was all gray, I remember. </sentence><sentence id="1871">Was -- my sister was with me. </sentence><sentence id="1872">She was also was coming -- he was all through with me during this in <span class="country">Germany</span> with, with me. </sentence><sentence id="1873">He's -- he had a little two year old son, and I had a little two year old son. </sentence><sentence id="1874">He was born in the <span class="populated place">Giinzburg</span>, where Mandela -- what's, what's, what was his name? </sentence><sentence id="1875">That German who was selecting the, the, the, the -- in <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1916">Q: Mengele.** </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1918">A: <span class="building">Mene-Mene-Mengele</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1919">Mengele was born in <span class="populated place">Giinzburg</span>, also. </sentence><sentence id="1920">My son was born, he was born in -- we got married in, in <span class="populated place">Leipheim</span>, finally in <span class="country">Germany</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1921">We, we had a two year old son. </sentence><sentence id="1922">My sister had a two year old boy. </sentence><sentence id="1923">Just about two weeks difference between them. </sentence><sentence id="1924">And then when we arrived to Germ-- to do -- to <span class="country">America</span>, we huddled together there in <span class="populated place">Boston</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1925">Figured that anybody would recognize us, you know, we could recognize them. </sentence><sentence id="1926">So my brother came -- says "I'm your brother Joe, Josoph." </sentence><sentence id="1927">He was, he was old enough to be my father. </sentence><sentence id="1928">He was 21 years older than I. You know, we was hugging each other, and so we came, all six of us, eight of us probably, put into one <span class="spatial object">car</span> and, and went to, came to the <span class="populated place">Bronx</span>, <span class="populated place">Bronx</span>, New York -- <span class="dlf">Holland Avenue</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1929">Finally got a little down the base- <span class="interior space">basement</span>, they have a <span class="interior space">room</span> -- they didn't, they didn't -- they were -- they didn't have -- * Josef Mengele they, they were poor themselves. </sentence><sentence id="1930">And my family was dirt poor. </sentence><sentence id="1931">But nevertheless they were, they were, they were very nice. </sentence><sentence id="1932">They were very nice to us. </sentence><sentence id="1933">And we lived six, six of us in one little <span class="interior space">room</span> in the <span class="interior space">basement</span> to -- you know, we all came, little <span class="interior space">room</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1934">And but nevertheless we, we start prospering you know from, became a <span class="building">furrier</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1935">I couldn't get a job as a furrier, couldn't speak English. </sentence><sentence id="1936">And they offered my, my, my brothers, they had a little <span class="building">luncheonette</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1937">They offered me a job as a <span class="spatial object">dishwasher</span>, and my brother-in-law. </sentence><sentence id="1938">We got, we -- so my brother told us that, "I give you a job. </sentence><sentence id="1939">You, you work 12 hours a day, six days a week, and you get 35 dollars and all you can eat." </sentence><sentence id="1940">So took the job. </sentence><sentence id="1941">Was a lot of money, you know. </sentence><sentence id="1942">Was, well wasn't a lot of money, but it was more than I ever had. </sentence><sentence id="1943">So, we start working, and after, after a while -- after I worked there for quite a many years, then I went into -- I saved enough money -- $5,000 I remember -- and I left my brother's and I opened up my own place as a <span class="building">luncheonette</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1944">And we prospered from that from this <span class="building">luncheonette</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1945">We worked night and day, 16 hours a day. </sentence><sentence id="1946">But that's the American dream. </sentence><sentence id="1947">And my boy was smart enough in <span class="building">school</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1948">Sent him to <span class="building">medical school</span>, and he became a.... Well, at that time the Vietnam War was in progress, so it's, it's a lot of people wanted to give their children, put them through med.-schools because they were deferred, you know, from the from the Vietnam War. </sentence><sentence id="1949">Even though he had a magna cum laude average, he couldn't, couldn't get in because people used to give them 100, 100,000 dollars, you know, to, to get them into <span class="building">medical school</span>, because that's what saved their lives you know. </sentence><sentence id="1950">Money was no object for the rich people. </sentence><sentence id="1951">So he had to go to <span class="building">Bologna Medical School</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1952">He was accepted, for my brother went to medical, <span class="building">medical school</span> in, in, in, in and my, my sister's husband, he was an anesthesiologist. </sentence><sentence id="1953">He also went to <span class="building">Bologna Medical School</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1991">Q: Tell me now -- we have just a couple of minutes left -- tell me what your children are doing now. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1993">A: Well, my son became a urologist. </sentence><sentence id="1994">He, he finished his <span class="building">medical school</span> in, in <span class="populated place">Bologna</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1995">And he's practicing urology in, in, in <span class="populated place">Sherman</span>, <span class="region">Texas</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1996">He has he has two practices. </sentence><sentence id="1997">He's has one, one -- he has a <span class="building">men's clinic</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1998">And my, my daughter, she became -- she just -- as a matter of fact, she's a gui-- school guidance counselor, but she got diploma as a, a <span class="building">high school</span> principal last year. </sentence><sentence id="1999">So I'm very proud of them. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2007">Q: Is there anything you want to add? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2009">A: Well, I wrote a book-- I wrote a memoir last year, and the very last two lines I wrote in my book -- "Just one more thing you should know. </sentence><sentence id="2010">She gave me peace. </sentence><sentence id="2011">She gave me pride. </sentence><sentence id="2012">My beautiful <span class="country">country</span>, my beloved <span class="country">America</span>." </sentence><sentence id="2013">I am so proud to be citizen Michael Bernath. </sentence><sentence id="2014"> End of Tape 2 TAPE #3 </sentence></p><p><sentence id="2015"> [Displaying photographs] </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2016">A: You know, one thing -- one, one important thing that I forgot to tell you about this, this interview. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2018">Q: Yeah, what? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2020">A: I don't know I should say it... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2022">Q: Well, tell me now, and I'll see if it's-- </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2024">A: Maybe you could fit it in? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2026">Q: What? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2028">A: Maybe you could for them in, too? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2030">Q: Let's see. </sentence><sentence id="2031">Yeah, tell me what your-- </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2034">A: When we were at this <span class="populated place">camp</span> and got this -- each and everyone of us used to get a piece of soap, piece of -- and was a ""jiidische Seife."* </sentence><sentence id="2035">> You know what that means? " </sentence><sentence id="2036">Jewish soap." </sentence><sentence id="2037">And what happened in the, in the -- like <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span> -- it was special details. </sentence><sentence id="2038">They were selecting the corpses of the fat content and they shipped them to the <span class="building">soap factories</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2039">And millions and millions of Christians and anybody used that soap -- jiidische Seife -- what they cleaned themselves. </sentence><sentence id="2040">And just want to tell them, to remind them that you should remember their screams and their cries. </sentence><sentence id="2041">That they didn't listen to the Lord -- to remember of their cries and their screams and their, and their.... Ask the Lord forgiveness and they should maybe delivered for evil. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2050">Q: Let's hold it for a minute. </sentence><sentence id="2051">Good, I'm glad you told me. </sentence><sentence id="2052">When he points at you -- when Gary(ph) points at you, would you just tell us what we're looking at on the <span class="spatial object">screen</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2056">A: This picture was taken right after I got into <span class="populated place">Kassa</span>, or <span class="populated place">KoSice</span>, a <span class="populated place">slave labor camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2057">And after -- a couple of days later, they took this picture each and every one of them for identification. </sentence><sentence id="2058">And this is the yellow band, which you see on my arm. </sentence><sentence id="2059">That's a yellow band, which inmates got this. </sentence><sentence id="2060">They took -- used to have the Star of David, but they used to give us this. </sentence></p><p><sentence id="2061"> *> Jewish Soap (German) [Technical conversation] </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2062">A: This picture was taken right after I, | went into the <span class="populated place">slave labor camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2063">And maybe two to three days after, and each and every one of them got a yellow band on his arm. </sentence><sentence id="2064">We took off the <span class="spatial object">Star of David</span> and we only had this yellow band in -- and the slave -- the <span class="populated place">camp</span> inmates and.... End of tape 3 [Conclusion of interview] </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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