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layout: transcript |
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interviewee: ion none butnaru |
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rg_number: rg-50.030.0049 |
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pdf_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/oh_findingaids/rg-50.030.0049_trs_en.pdf |
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ushmm_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn504455 |
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gender: m |
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birth_date: 1918-12-04 |
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birth_year: 1918.0 |
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place_of_birth: huşi |
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country: moldavia |
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experience_group: survivor |
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ghetto(s)_encyclopedia: none |
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ghetto: none |
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camp(s)_encyclopedia: none |
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camp: none |
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non_ss_camp: none |
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region: none |
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needs_research: none |
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data_entry: gg |
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accession: 1990.381.1 |
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revisit: none |
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tags: transcripts |
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<body><dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="1"><span class="populated place">ION BUTNARU</span> May 3, 1990 </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3">Q: We're on. </sentence><sentence id="4">Tape is rolling. </sentence><sentence id="5">Please tell us your name. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="9">A: My name is Ion Butnaru. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="11">Q: When and where you have been born? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="13">A: Iam born in <span class="populated place">Hu_i</span>, a small <span class="populated place">city</span> from <span class="country">Moldavia</span>. </sentence><sentence id="14">At...December 4th, 1980...1918. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="17">Q: Please tell us about your family, about growing up in <span class="populated place">Hu_i</span> before the war. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="19">A: My family is from <span class="populated place">Hu_i</span>. </sentence><sentence id="20">My grandfather was born in <span class="populated place">Hu_i</span>, my father born in <span class="populated place">Hu_i</span>. </sentence><sentence id="21">What I can tell you? </sentence><sentence id="22">They make a living being <span class="dlf">vineyards</span> [NB: <span class="building">vintners</span>]. </sentence><sentence id="23">They plant their <span class="dlf">vineyards</span>. </sentence><sentence id="24">They harvest the <span class="env feature">vineyards</span>. </sentence><sentence id="25">They sell the wine. </sentence><sentence id="26">They are very good winemakers. </sentence><sentence id="27">As a matter of fact, all my young...my childhood, my young years I spent on the...in the <span class="env feature">vineyards</span>. </sentence><sentence id="28">So what more I can tell you about? </sentence><sentence id="29">I learn...1 was in <span class="building">elementary school</span> in <span class="populated place">Hu_i</span>, and, uh, <span class="building">high school</span> in Hu _i. I couldn't go to the <span class="building">university</span>, because I was taken to work for the army in 1939--November 11, after the war broke between <span class="country">Germany</span> and <span class="country">Poland</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="41">Q: Let's go back for a moment, please, and tell us about the community life in <span class="populated place">Hu_i</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="43">A: Yes. </sentence><sentence id="44">Uh, uh, the <span class="populated place">city</span> of <span class="populated place">Hu_i</span>, it was a very interesting <span class="populated place">city</span> from a social point of view. </sentence><sentence id="45">They are, uh, Romanian, of course, the majority. </sentence><sentence id="46">It was a Bulgarian population, who, uh ... they, uh ...they, uh, were vegetable, uh...gardeners. </sentence><sentence id="47">There are a kind of Hungarian people, they are most of them <span class="dlf">vineyard</span>...<span class="dlf">vineyards</span> [NB: vintners]; and Jewish population. </sentence><sentence id="48">The Jewish population, it wasn't so big. </sentence><sentence id="49">Around thousand, or twelve hundred, uh, families. </sentence><sentence id="50">Uh, the maj...majority of them are, uh, shopkeepers and, uh, artisans--tailors, shoemakers, uh, <span class="dlf">roof</span>...uh, uh, they... they deal with roofings. </sentence><sentence id="51">And, uh, from a cult...cultural point of view, it was interesting that it was a <span class="building">library</span> organized in the...in the...by the Jewish community, which each of us...almost each generation of boys and girls from the <span class="building">high school</span>, they work as a volunteers in this <span class="building">library</span>. </sentence><sentence id="52">So, uh, they organized, uh...they were organizing, um, the literary festivals and artistical festivals. </sentence><sentence id="53">We...uh, I mean, it was a very interesting, uh, cultural life. </sentence><sentence id="54">There was, uh, small <span class="building">newspaper</span>, which I start when I was seventeen years old to publish some articles regarding the...the <span class="populated place">city</span>. </sentence><sentence id="55">Epigrams--I liked this kind of thing when I was young. </sentence><sentence id="56">So it was a kind of apprenticeship writing, to this small <span class="spatial object">newspaper</span>. </sentence><sentence id="57">And, uh, I have a cousin. </sentence><sentence id="58">The cousin, he was a lawyer. </sentence><sentence id="59">He...he was a very talented, uh, writer and journalist; and he gave me...gave me the courage to start to do this. </sentence><sentence id="60">I mean, it was the beginning on my writing career, how to say. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="79">Q: Would you tell us a few words about day-to-day life of your family? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="81">A: Uh, it was nothing exciting. </sentence><sentence id="82">My were...my father was very busy with our <span class="dlf">vineyard</span>. </sentence><sentence id="83">She...he woke up in the early, early hour of the morning, being there. </sentence><sentence id="84">Because I don't know if you know, a <span class="dlf">vineyard</span> is taking a lot of work to...to maintain it, to keep it. </sentence><sentence id="85">And, uh, my mother was <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="86">I have a sister, which she is...she is older as me--seven years. </sentence><sentence id="87">She married very young. </sentence><sentence id="88">She moved out from our <span class="building">house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="89">So I was alone. </sentence><sentence id="90">It was nothing... Uh, I had friends-- boys and girls from my generation. </sentence><sentence id="91">But we spent all the time, our leisure hours out in the <span class="env feature">vineyards</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="103">Q: What happened to you once the war broke? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="105">A: As a matter of fact, it happens in this...in 1939, in the summer, I was very sick. </sentence><sentence id="106">I was... took a cold. </sentence><sentence id="107">I...I caught a cold. </sentence><sentence id="108">I don't know how to say in English "pleurisy"; I have water in my...my lungs. </sentence><sentence id="109">I was very, very sick. </sentence><sentence id="110">But in... later in the summer, in the beginning on the September, I start to recover. </sentence><sentence id="111">And I...I was in our <span class="dlf">vineyard</span>, because it was fresh air. </sentence><sentence id="112">And, uh, I have received good nourishment from my...my family. </sentence><sentence id="113">So, uh, when war broke, I was <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="114">Uh, I was <span class="building">home</span>, recovering from my illness. </sentence><sentence id="115">And in November, when I first...I received an order to present myself to the...my uh...my, uh, regiment, I could try to postpone the military duty, because I was still not recovered. </sentence><sentence id="116">But I want to do this, because L...I understood there wasn't any reason to postpone. </sentence><sentence id="117">Because anyway I'll be...I'll have to go to...to... to the army. </sentence><sentence id="118">So, uh, in November 11, when the war broked, already I was in the army. </sentence><sentence id="119">And I was tried...uh, I...I trained very hardly. </sentence><sentence id="120">And it was a very hard winter in 1939- 1940; and after then, the spring of 1940, I was sent, uh, on the <span class="region">military zone</span> in <span class="region">northern part</span> of, uh, <span class="country">Moldavia</span> where my regiment belongs. </sentence><sentence id="121">I was in the Regiment, 9th Regiment of Infantry from <span class="populated place">Rimnicu</span> S rat. </sentence><sentence id="122">So being in the army, I was trained during the during the summer and we walked to the <span class="building">fortification</span> facing... facing the Russian coming from the <span class="region">northern part of Moldavia</span>. </sentence><sentence id="123">We didn't know about if they'll ...if they'll come; then nobody thought... But we worked to this kind of <span class="building">fortification</span> all the period of time. </sentence><sentence id="124">And the summer of, uh, 1940, it was a Russian ultimatum asking Romanian to cede the <span class="populated place">Bessarabia</span> [and], uh, <span class="region">northern part</span> of <span class="populated place">Bukovina</span>. </sentence><sentence id="125">I was, uh, near...uh, two or three kilometer fr...from, uh, uh, small <span class="populated place">city</span>--the name is <span class="populated place">Her_a</span>--which, uh, which never was, uh, in the occupied by the Russian. </sentence><sentence id="126">But it was in the <span class="region">Moldavian part</span>. </sentence><sentence id="127">And the Russians, they were interested to have, uh, <span class="dlf">bridge</span> in[to], uh, uh, <span class="country">Romania</span>. </sentence><sentence id="128">So they took...they took this <span class="populated place">city</span> of <span class="populated place">Her_a</span>, too. </sentence><sentence id="129">And, uh...and after then, we retreat. </sentence><sentence id="130">It was, uh...I retreat from, uh... with the whole army, the Romanian army, from this point "til Roman--the <span class="populated place">city</span> Roman. </sentence><sentence id="131">Day and night, day and night; uh, because it was... We were under very big pressure, because behind us it was the Romanian army from <span class="populated place">Bessarabia</span> [and] from <span class="populated place">Bukovina</span>, who has to escape. </sentence><sentence id="132">And, uh, after then, being in Roman--as a matter of fact, in a <span class="populated place">village</span> near Roman--I, uh...I being Jewish, and, uh, with other people...and other soldier being Jewish, we were expelled from the <span class="building">Amny</span>." </sentence><sentence id="133">And I remember, because I was on act...on active duty. </sentence><sentence id="134">I didn't have even civilian clothes with me. </sentence><sentence id="135">So they give me some kind of clothes from the...from their <span class="building">warehouse</span>, which didn't fit on me. </sentence><sentence id="136">Which was...I was almost naked. </sentence><sentence id="137">And I receive orders to present myself to the to the regiment in <span class="populated place">Rimnicu S_rat</span>. </sentence><sentence id="138">And it was...it was a problem to, uh, to take the <span class="spatial object">train</span> and to make the journey to... to, uh, <span class="populated place">Rimnicu</span> S rat, because everybody, it was military. </sentence><sentence id="139">And who was was dressed like me, know...know...they know exactly that...that I...I was a Jew. </sentence><sentence id="140">So it was...it was very dangerous to make this trip to, to <span class="populated place">Rimnicu</span> S_rat; because uh, well, I...I could be beaten or just threw out...threw out of ...of the <span class="dlf">window</span>--which that happened to many people. </sentence><sentence id="141">So I managed to escape. </sentence><sentence id="142">And, uh, I present the second day I was to the regiment. </sentence><sentence id="143">And they give me...they give me a order to go <span class="building">home</span>, and to wait for new...new...new disposition. </sentence><sentence id="144">I arrived <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="145">And after three days or four days, I receive an order to come back to the <span class="building">regiment</span> on September Ist, 1940. </sentence><sentence id="146">I come back. </sentence><sentence id="147">And I was...I, I was sent to, uh, in the <span class="building">working battalions</span>. </sentence><sentence id="148">It was not yet in the <span class="populated place">labor camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="149">All the former soldiers, they have to go to the work...to the <span class="building">fortification</span>. </sentence><sentence id="150">And I was sent to the <span class="env feature">Carpathian Mountains</span> and, uh, the <span class="populated place">city</span>...the small <span class="populated place">city</span> <span class="populated place">Tirgu Neam_</span>, working the <span class="dlf">fortification</span> facing the <span class="dlf">Hungarian border</span>. </sentence><sentence id="151">That's...this was the period of time when the br...the war broke. </sentence><sentence id="152">And, uh, when in the summer of 1941 I was <span class="building">home</span>, sent back from the working battalions. </sentence><sentence id="153">And I worked in the <span class="populated place">city</span> [of <span class="populated place">Hu_i</span>], sent doing kind of cleaning the <span class="dlf">streets</span> and something like this. </sentence><sentence id="154">Not...not too hard. </sentence><sentence id="155">It was very humiliating, because everybody knows us. </sentence><sentence id="156">But we didn't have another choice. </sentence><sentence id="157">I remember that the war broke against the Russians on June 22nd [1941]. </sentence><sentence id="158">It was Sunday. </sentence><sentence id="159">Saturday, in the afternoon, all Jewish male from, uh, the age of eighteen to sixty, we have to present ourselves to the <span class="building">police quarter</span>. </sentence><sentence id="160">I didn't know why. </sentence><sentence id="161">So I was there; and there we were locked up. </sentence><sentence id="162">Nobody can leave. </sentence><sentence id="163">We left...we slept in the <span class="interior space">courtyard</span> of the <span class="building">police quarter</span> in <span class="populated place">Hu_i</span>. </sentence><sentence id="164">And in the dawn, we're sent to an unknown destination. </sentence><sentence id="165">What was known, it was that I heard going to the <span class="populated place">villages</span> that the war broke. </sentence><sentence id="166">And we heard the orders that everybody has to go to war against the...the Russians. </sentence><sentence id="167">As...an interesting story which I remember, that we arrived in a small <span class="populated place">village</span> in a nearby <span class="region">county</span> near, <span class="populated place">Tutova</span>, is the name of this <span class="region">county</span>. </sentence><sentence id="168">And the <span class="populated place">village</span>, the name is <span class="populated place">Bogdana</span>. </sentence><sentence id="169">I can't forget it. </sentence><sentence id="170">And we stood there for one night waiting for some orders. </sentence><sentence id="171">I don't know what kind of order we expected. </sentence><sentence id="172">But I remember, that it was in afternoon of this same day that, uh, an officer from the <span class="building">gendarmerie</span> came to us. </sentence><sentence id="173">And we know very well who the gend...the...the...the <span class="building">gendarmerie</span> is. </sentence><sentence id="174">They were the most " This would have been early in August 1940. </sentence><sentence id="175"> oppressive part of the Romanian Army. </sentence><sentence id="176">But I have to tell you that this man, it was a very kind man. </sentence><sentence id="177">And he told us, "Don't be afraid, as long as you are under my <span class="region">jurisdiction</span>. </sentence><sentence id="178">If I...if I have to go to eat, I'll never eat if I know that you are hungry...uh, hungry." </sentence><sentence id="179">His name is [Gheorghe] Pris caru. </sentence><sentence id="180">And I remember that after the war, I wrote about this man, in September 1944. </sentence><sentence id="181">But from...from <span class="populated place">Bogdana</span>, it comes the order to go to a <span class="populated place">city</span> of Birlad.(Cough) Iam sorry. </sentence><sentence id="182">And now, in the Birlad, we are...we embarked on the <span class="spatial object">train</span>, the <span class="spatial object">cattle train</span>, and sent to a camp--<span class="populated place">deportation camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="183">And the <span class="populated place">city</span>, it was <span class="populated place">Tirgu Jiu</span>. </sentence><sentence id="184">And we arrived in <span class="populated place">Tirgu Jiu</span> after a journey of two or three days. </sentence><sentence id="185">But on this our journey to <span class="populated place">Tirgu Jiu</span>, I want to tell you something which I like to be made...made...make it public. </sentence><sentence id="186">We stopped in a <span class="populated place">city</span>--the name is <span class="populated place">Craiova</span>--to change the <span class="spatial object">engine</span> to go to <span class="populated place">Tirgu Jiu</span>. </sentence><sentence id="187">It was in the morning. </sentence><sentence id="188">The soldier opened the <span class="dlf">doors</span> from the <span class="spatial object">cattle cars</span>. </sentence><sentence id="189">And some of us stepped out, just to take a breathe of fresh air. </sentence><sentence id="190">And a petty man from the... working, uh...a worker from the...from the <span class="dlf">railroad</span>, come to these people and...and start to mug them, taking their money and things which they have. </sentence><sentence id="191">An <span class="spatial object">engine</span> makes a maneuver, and ...and the neighbor from the <span class="spatial object">train</span>. </sentence><sentence id="192">And the <span class="spatial object">mech</span>...the mechanic from the <span class="spatial object">engine</span> saw this man mugging people. </sentence><sentence id="193">He stopped the <span class="spatial object">engine</span>, stepped down; and he went to this guy who who continued to do it, to mug. </sentence><sentence id="194">He slapped him in the face. </sentence><sentence id="195">He said, "Give back everything!" </sentence><sentence id="196">The guy, uh...the...the guy, he was afraid of [the mechanic], and he gave everything [back]. </sentence><sentence id="197">This man stepped up on the <span class="spatial object">engine</span>, started the <span class="spatial object">engine</span>, and he'll go continue his work. </sentence><sentence id="198">I don't know his name. </sentence><sentence id="199">I never saw him in my life. </sentence><sentence id="200">But I feel that I have to tell this story. </sentence><sentence id="201">In the beginning on the war, when in <span class="populated place">Ia_i</span> the Jews start to be killed by the Romani...the same people. </sentence><sentence id="202">We arrived in the camp of <span class="populated place">Tirgu Jiu</span>. </sentence><sentence id="203">It was something unbelievable huge. </sentence><sentence id="204">I want to tell you that this <span class="populated place">camp</span> of <span class="populated place">Tirgu Jiu</span> was built by the Polish army. </sentence><sentence id="205">When Polish was destroyed and occupied by the Russian, a part of the Polish Army was evacuated in <span class="country">Romania</span>. </sentence><sentence id="206">So this...this <span class="populated place">camp</span> was built by the Polish Army. </sentence><sentence id="207">Now in this period of time, the Polish Army left <span class="country">Romania</span>--this is another story. </sentence><sentence id="208">So it [NB: <span class="populated place">Tirgu Jiu</span>] was a <span class="populated place">concentration camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="209">It was the first <span class="populated place">concentration [camp]</span>, beside other: <span class="populated place">Caracal</span>, and <span class="populated place">Lugoj</span>, and <span class="populated place">Miercurea-Ciuc</span>, and so on. </sentence><sentence id="210">But this was the biggest of all of them. </sentence><sentence id="211">And, uh, this <span class="populated place">camp</span>, it was a very interesting mixture of people. </sentence><sentence id="212">It...it was divided in four and seven classes...uh, seven departments. </sentence><sentence id="213">And this department one or two, it was ...it was some opposition of the Antonescus--and, uh, generals and, uh, diplomats, which they paid to stay there. </sentence><sentence id="214">And the third class, it was a <span class="building">Legionary</span>--the fascists. </sentence><sentence id="215">I'll tell you that, entering in this...in this <span class="populated place">camp</span>, I said to myself, "Hey. </sentence><sentence id="216">At least, here I'll be, uh, nobody's yelling to me. </sentence><sentence id="217">No...no ...no...no...no...nobody will call me dirty names, and so on." </sentence><sentence id="218">Walking in front of this, uh, [third] department of the <span class="populated place">labor camp</span>, which we didn't know who they are--these people, they start to yell to us and curs...cursing us. </sentence><sentence id="219">I said, "Here, too?!" </sentence><sentence id="220">Where there are the Legionnaires. </sentence><sentence id="221">And department four, there were womans. </sentence><sentence id="222">The <span class="building">department five</span>, it was the evacuees. </sentence><sentence id="223">We stood [NB: stayed] in the <span class="building">evacuees department</span>. </sentence><sentence id="224">It was the <span class="building">department number six</span>, it was the suspects of communists. </sentence><sentence id="225">And number seven, these were the communists. </sentence><sentence id="226">There are separate <span class="interior space">quarters</span>, but we managed to communicate with each other. </sentence><sentence id="227">Of course, not with the Legionnaires! </sentence><sentence id="228">Uh, after a short period of time, uh, part of us they sent to work in the <span class="interior space">garden</span>...in the gardening. </sentence><sentence id="229">And another part, there are sent the place...it was, uh, <span class="populated place">Valea</span> or <span class="populated place">Valea Jiului</span>, which was, where it was a famous lieutenant commander-- Trepadu_--which was the criminal, and after the war he was judged as a criminal. </sentence><sentence id="230">Uh, we stood [NB: stayed] in...in the camp of <span class="populated place">Tirgu Jiu</span> with a period of time, uh, four months, almost four months, when we are sent back in <span class="populated place">Hu_i</span>. </sentence><sentence id="231">And we are put in, uh, a <span class="populated place">local camp</span>, into the <span class="interior space">courtyard</span> of the <span class="building">Jewish community</span>. </sentence><sentence id="232">We are obliged to wear the yellow badge. </sentence><sentence id="233">And we are from time to time allowed to go <span class="building">home</span> and to change our underwear. </sentence><sentence id="234">Talking about this, I want to repeat another story about this, what happens. </sentence><sentence id="235">When I received my first, uh, "approval," how to say, to go <span class="building">home</span> to change my, my, uh, underwear, it was in <span class="populated place">Hu_i</span>. </sentence><sentence id="236">Uh, I remember that it was way to go to...to my hou...my parents" <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="237">And I know [one is] quite, uh...not a very, uh...not a center of the <span class="dlf">street</span>; but I said, "No, I have to go through the center of the <span class="dlf">street</span>." </sentence><sentence id="238">I'm wear the badge, so I ...I didn't care. </sentence><sentence id="239">I want to go see people, and people to see me; because everybody knows me there. </sentence><sentence id="240">And I remember that walking on the <span class="dlf">street</span>, I saw a girl which it was a very good friend of my young years. </sentence><sentence id="241">And she saw me, too. </sentence><sentence id="242">But she saw...seeing me coming with the yellow badge, she crossed the <span class="dlf">street</span>. </sentence><sentence id="243">She didn't want to talk to me. </sentence><sentence id="244">And I walked farther. </sentence><sentence id="245">And it was in the center of the <span class="dlf">street</span>; people usually walked in the center, they stood [NB: stayed], they talk to them. </sentence><sentence id="246">And a friend of mine, uh, which are very close, he was a...a Romanian. </sentence><sentence id="247">And he saw me. </sentence><sentence id="248">And in front of all the people, he came to me and he hugged me. </sentence><sentence id="249">It was just a rebellion, to hug a Jew with a...with...with a yellow badge. </sentence><sentence id="250">And I want to say this, and to be--how to say?--forever. </sentence><sentence id="251">Because I can't forget this. </sentence><sentence id="252">Unfortunately, he died after the war. </sentence><sentence id="253">He was...he has tuberculosis. </sentence><sentence id="254">But doesn't matter. </sentence><sentence id="255">I want to talk about my friend. </sentence><sentence id="256">Uh, in this period of time being in <span class="populated place">camp</span> in <span class="populated place">Tirgu Jiu</span>, it happened something with my father which it was very important and very difficult period of time. </sentence><sentence id="257">As I told you, my father, it was a very well-known person in <span class="populated place">city</span>. </sentence><sentence id="258">A very honest man, with a... with a high degree of dignity and pride. </sentence><sentence id="259">If he borrows from somebody...somebody something, every penny he give back. </sentence><sentence id="260">And he kept his whole word. </sentence><sentence id="261">So I told you that Sunday morning, on June 22nd, we were sent to the <span class="populated place">camp</span> to..to <span class="populated place">Tirgu Jiu</span>. </sentence><sentence id="262">So it was Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday...somebody knocked to our <span class="dlf">door</span>. </sentence><sentence id="263">We know--my father told me, my mother-- they never even saw these people. </sentence><sentence id="264">And he start to talk: "Hey, Mr. Butnaru! </sentence><sentence id="265">How are you?" </sentence><sentence id="266">In Yiddish. </sentence><sentence id="267">And he said, my father, "I don't know who you are." " </sentence><sentence id="268">Oh, it doesn't matter you don't know me. </sentence><sentence id="269">Don't worry! </sentence><sentence id="270">The Russians are coming. </sentence><sentence id="271">Our brothers will be here. </sentence><sentence id="272">You'll be liberated!" </sentence><sentence id="273">My father was very... "Who are you, sir? </sentence><sentence id="274">I don't make politics. </sentence><sentence id="275">I don't talk about this. </sentence><sentence id="276">I have my problems." </sentence><sentence id="277">And this man, he continued to talk in this way. </sentence><sentence id="278">And after that: "Don't worry, we'll see each other." </sentence><sentence id="279">And he left. </sentence><sentence id="280">And this afternoon, my father was arrested with another nine people from <span class="populated place">Hu</span> _i. Leading person, and director of our <span class="building">bank</span>, uh, a bookkeeper, a young lady, a pianist--and they're beaten to death to try to tell, ask them...ask them to tell them where their...they have their communist meetings. </sentence><sentence id="281">And my father was a communist? </sentence><sentence id="282">I don't know if you are talking about somebody who is a...to speak in Hindu language. </sentence><sentence id="283">And after then, [they] were sent in a trial. </sentence><sentence id="284">Because the war...the <span class="populated place">war zone</span>, it was very close from <span class="populated place">Hu_i</span>. </sentence><sentence id="285">They was to be to be sent to a <span class="building">military court</span> to be judged. </sentence><sentence id="286">Their luck it was that the <span class="dlf">military front</span> moved far away very fast from <span class="populated place">Hu_i</span>, so they they weren't anymore in this jurisdiction of the <span class="building">military court</span>. </sentence><sentence id="287">The, a <span class="building">martial court</span>. </sentence><sentence id="288">So they were sent to a <span class="building">military court</span>, but not, uh, for the <span class="region">front zone</span>. </sentence><sentence id="289">I don't know if you understand me exact. </sentence><sentence id="290">It was a trial in...in the <span class="populated place">city</span> <span class="populated place">Gala_i</span>; they sent to this <span class="building">court</span>. </sentence><sentence id="291">How much they hate the Jews, they couldn't do this mockery. </sentence><sentence id="292">So they acquit them, all of them. </sentence><sentence id="293">But they ask the local authority from the <span class="populated place">city</span> of <span class="populated place">Hu_i</span> to kept them like... like, uh, hostage, as a guarantee. </sentence><sentence id="294">If will be a sabotage somewhere in this neighborhood of our <span class="populated place">city</span>, they'll be shot. </sentence><sentence id="295">So when I came <span class="building">home</span> from the <span class="populated place">city</span>, from the <span class="populated place">camp</span>...from the Tirgu Jiu, I was very surprised that my father didn't come to see me. </sentence><sentence id="296">Only my mother. </sentence><sentence id="297">Everybody, waiting from my mother, for...for my father; because everybody's looking for relatives to come. </sentence><sentence id="298">Uh, I talked to some people who knows me, and everybody said, "Okay. </sentence><sentence id="299">Is okay with your father. </sentence><sentence id="300">Don't worry." </sentence><sentence id="301">But I didn't know to what to worry, because my mother hadn't any opportunity to write me being in...in the camp of <span class="populated place">Tirgu Jiu</span>. </sentence><sentence id="302">Later on, I saw my mother come--of course, wearing the badge. </sentence><sentence id="303">And she told me this story that my father is not <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="304">Uh, my father is arrested in a military, uh, <span class="building">barracks</span>, near the the...the <span class="dlf">border</span> of <span class="populated place">Hu_i</span>. </sentence><sentence id="305">So after a couple of months, we are allowed to go <span class="building">home</span>, as the...as the...as the <span class="populated place">local camp</span> was dismantled. </sentence><sentence id="306">And my father was allowed to come <span class="building">home</span>, too; but he has to present himself each week to the police to sign in, in...in a book that he didn't leave the...the <span class="populated place">city</span>. </sentence><sentence id="307">Uh, in this period of time in <span class="country">Romania</span>, it was the <span class="building">Legionary government</span> with Antonescu. </sentence><sentence id="308">It was in the fall of 1941.7 The situation, it was terrifying. </sentence><sentence id="309">My father lost everything--the <span class="dlf">vineyard</span>, the harvest. </sentence><sentence id="310">It happened to be a very good year with wine, and full of...it was the...the <span class="interior space">cellar</span> full with wine. </sentence><sentence id="311">And, uh, they start to take the <span class="building">houses</span> and everything. </sentence><sentence id="312">One night was...I was arr...arrested by the <span class="building">Legionary police</span>; and kept arrested... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="524">Q: Excuse me. </sentence><sentence id="525">This happened before the <span class="populated place">Tirgu Jiu camp</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="528"> > Antonescu declared <span class="country">Romania</span> a "<span class="populated place">National Legionary State</span>" after King Carol II fled the <span class="country">country</span> in September 1940. </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="529">A: After. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="531">Q: After? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="533">A: After. </sentence><sentence id="534">I told you. </sentence><sentence id="535"><span class="populated place">Tirgu Jiu</span>, it was on the beginning of the war with <span class="country">Russia</span>. </sentence><sentence id="536">It was the summer of 1941, and I stood in the <span class="populated place">camp</span> "til September 1941. </sentence><sentence id="537">In September 1941, I come back. </sentence><sentence id="538">My father was hostage, and I was in a <span class="populated place">local camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="539">In the fall of 1941 the <span class="populated place">camp</span>, <span class="populated place">local camp</span>, was dismantled. </sentence><sentence id="540">My father was allowed to come <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="541">The <span class="building">Legionary government</span>, it was in full power. </sentence><sentence id="542">We took out...we lost everything--the <span class="env feature">vineyard</span>, the <span class="building">house</span>, everything. </sentence><sentence id="543">From our big <span class="building">house</span>, we are allowed... allowed to live in a one <span class="interior space">room</span> in...was near...which was a <span class="interior space">kitchen</span>. </sentence><sentence id="544">It was all which we possessed. </sentence><sentence id="545">One day I was arrested, I said...I told you, by the <span class="building">Legionary police</span>. </sentence><sentence id="546">And I have to confess, I wasn't beaten. </sentence><sentence id="547">I heard people yelling and moaning, because they were [being] beaten. </sentence><sentence id="548">They didn't beat me. </sentence><sentence id="549">Because all of them, they are former colleagues and from our childhood. </sentence><sentence id="550">And they didn't dare to do this to me. </sentence><sentence id="551">They didn't do this to me. </sentence><sentence id="552">But they are my friends, all of them. </sentence><sentence id="553">So we decided we have to do something. </sentence><sentence id="554">We decided to do something; because the situation, it was very dangerous. </sentence><sentence id="555">And if I was so lucky not to be beaten once, who knows what will be the second time? </sentence><sentence id="556">So one night...one day, I went to the <span class="populated place">police quarter</span>. </sentence><sentence id="557">I paid a fee; and my father found a friend of ours, and he bribed a police...a policeman from the <span class="building">office</span> to give me the...the auth...authorization to leave the <span class="populated place">city</span>. </sentence><sentence id="558">And I left the <span class="populated place">city</span> to <span class="populated place">Bucharest</span>. </sentence><sentence id="559">My father and my mother left in <span class="populated place">Hu_i</span>. </sentence><sentence id="560">So in January...no, in December. </sentence><sentence id="561">December 1941. </sentence><sentence id="562">So in the beginning of 1942--no, 1940...1941 ... No. </sentence><sentence id="563">I am a little bit mixed...no, no, no. </sentence><sentence id="564">Yes. </sentence><sentence id="565">Uh, no. </sentence><sentence id="566">There were... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="601">Q: It's all right. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="603">A: No, no, no. </sentence><sentence id="604">In 1941, it was the Legionary movement. </sentence><sentence id="605">Uh, the war started in, uh, 1941 in June, so you have to...in the...to ...to make to edit this part of... I can try to...to tell again. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="609">Q: That's fine. </sentence><sentence id="610">Don't worry about it. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="613">A: Yes. </sentence><sentence id="614">Iam mixed a little bit the dates. </sentence><sentence id="615">Because I want to be very precise. </sentence><sentence id="616">So we, uh...L..I was in <span class="populated place">Bucharest</span> in 1941, in January. </sentence><sentence id="617">Uh, to...of a...to a family...to a relative of ours, very close relatives. </sentence><sentence id="618">As, uh...as they lived near <span class="populated place">Hala</span>... the place which is <span class="populated place">Hala Traian</span>. </sentence><sentence id="619">The <span class="dlf">street</span>, it was <span class="building">Miti_a Constantinescu</span>; and not so far from the <span class="populated place">Jewish quarter</span>, which is <span class="dlf">V_c_re_ti</span> and <span class="dlf">Dude_ti</span>. </sentence><sentence id="620">I remember when the, uh, Legionary revolution...uh, rebellion started. </sentence><sentence id="621">> We heard, we...we are Close to...to the <span class="spatial object">radio</span>, listening to what happens on the <span class="dlf">street</span>. </sentence><sentence id="622">I...L..1 remember the shootings around the <span class="building">house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="623">And, uh, one, I...I...[ looked through the <span class="dlf">windows</span>; and I saw the, the, the Legionary in their...in their <span class="spatial object">trucks</span>, and with with the...the flags and the green > The Iron Guard rebellion took place from January 21-23, 1941. </sentence><sentence id="624"> flags and tri-colored flags, running on the <span class="dlf">streets</span> with their <span class="spatial object">motorcycles</span>. </sentence><sentence id="625">I saw across the <span class="dlf">street</span>. </sentence><sentence id="626">I watched through the <span class="dlf">window</span> when a... when a...when a...a <span class="spatial object">car</span> stopped in front of the <span class="dlf">window</span>. </sentence><sentence id="627">Uh, three or four people, they would go out. </sentence><sentence id="628">Here, they enter the <span class="building">house</span> and, uh, they took somebody and left. </sentence><sentence id="629">And, uh, I remember very vividly that the second day, the second day of the rebellion," when we heard that the Legionary, they, uh, the gave up, they...they surrendered. </sentence><sentence id="630">I went to V_c re ti and to <span class="building">Dude ti</span>, and I visit them. </sentence><sentence id="631">I remember...uh, <span class="building">house</span> after <span class="building">house</span>, it was pillaged and burned. </sentence><sentence id="632">Uh, I saw...I was in the ... on the front of the <span class="building">morgue</span>, which is situated not close from the <span class="env feature">River Dimbovi_a</span>, with the...surrounded by <span class="spatial object">tanks</span>. </sentence><sentence id="633">And people--Jews--trying to enter in the <span class="building">morgue</span>...in the <span class="building">morgue</span>; because they want to recognize the...the relatives, their loved ones, who they are killed in...in this period and then during this, uh, rebellion. </sentence><sentence id="634">Uh, I have very vivid memory of this period of time. </sentence><sentence id="635">I tried, the <span class="building">house</span> which were...where lived, which was not attacked by the...by the Legionnairies. </sentence><sentence id="636">But I remember very well everything. </sentence><sentence id="637">After then, the relatives--it was an uncle of ours--he left to <span class="populated place">Hu_i</span> to see what happens with my family. </sentence><sentence id="638">Because they didn't want to allow me to go <span class="building">home</span>. </sentence><sentence id="639">And, um, he stood there for a period of time--two weeks, three weeks--and he came back. </sentence><sentence id="640">And he said to me, "I think you can go <span class="building">home</span> now. </sentence><sentence id="641">But, uh...(pause) you'll find your father okay. </sentence><sentence id="642">He is okay now." </sentence><sentence id="643">I didn't know what happens. </sentence><sentence id="644">He had a stroke. </sentence><sentence id="645">He used to go... (Crying) I'm sorry. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="680">Q: It's all right. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="682">A: (Pause) He used to go everyday on a certain point on a <span class="dlf">street</span>, looking to his <span class="dlf">vineyard</span> like somebody's going to see a beloved one. ( </sentence><sentence id="683">Crying) And one day, coming <span class="building">home</span>, he had a stroke. </sentence><sentence id="684">Somebody has to carry him <span class="building">home</span> on his shoulder. </sentence><sentence id="685">He couldn't walk. </sentence><sentence id="686">But it happens that he was a very strong man; and he...he managed, how to say, to survive this. </sentence><sentence id="687">And when I came <span class="building">home</span>, he was a broken man. </sentence><sentence id="688">He was very...he lost a lot of weight. </sentence><sentence id="689">But he used to walk, and he talked; and it was a miracle. </sentence><sentence id="690">So he didn't know nothing. </sentence><sentence id="691">And the summer, when the war start, I told you that he was very, very hard...very brutal beaten by the officer who...who tried to find out he... he was a communist. </sentence><sentence id="692">But he was...he...he managed to...to...to survive this period of time. </sentence><sentence id="693">So, after the <span class="populated place">camp</span> I told you, we're in...in the <span class="populated place">local camp</span>; and we, uh...we were sent to work to clear the <span class="dlf">street</span> of snow, and the <span class="dlf">highways</span> of snow. </sentence><sentence id="694">Because I...I told you, <span class="populated place">Hu_i</span>, it was a very important point to go to the <span class="dlf">front line</span>. </sentence><sentence id="695">So the <span class="dlf">highways</span> should be cleared by snow; the...the <span class="spatial object">tanks</span>, and the comm...and the <span class="spatial object">lorries</span>, and the [soldiers] too can walk. </sentence><sentence id="696">And the springtime, we...we used to work in the same, uh, way around the <span class="populated place">city</span>; and...and the summer of 1942, it was the first detachment of Jews sent to <span class="populated place">Bessarabia</span>. </sentence><sentence id="697">Which is just a new chapter in my life. * </sentence><sentence id="698">January 22, 1941. </sentence><sentence id="699"> It was the first labor...<span class="building">labor battalion</span>, <span class="populated place">labor camp</span>, which I was sent. </sentence><sentence id="700">I was sent...the <span class="populated place">city</span>, it was <span class="populated place">Bolgrad</span>, the capital of the <span class="region">county Cahul</span>. </sentence><sentence id="701">The <span class="dlf">railroad</span> stopped in a certain <span class="building">station</span>--the name, it was <span class="populated place">Bulg_rica</span>--thirteen kilometers [<span class="region">northeast</span>] from <span class="populated place">Bolgrad</span>. </sentence><sentence id="702">So if somebody has to go to <span class="populated place">Bolgrad</span>, has to stop... make a stop in this <span class="building">station</span>, <span class="populated place">Bulg rica</span>, and to take a <span class="spatial object">coach</span> or something--which we didn't (laughter) take, of course--to go to <span class="populated place">Bolgrad</span>. </sentence><sentence id="703">But not...this is not the point where I am talking about, <span class="populated place">Bulg rica</span>. </sentence><sentence id="704">When we arrived there, it was in the middle of the summer. </sentence><sentence id="705">And a terrible, terrible stink. </sentence><sentence id="706">It was an insupportable stink. </sentence><sentence id="707">We couldn't understand what is this smell here. </sentence><sentence id="708">And, uh, I asked...we asked people, "What...why is this smell here?" </sentence><sentence id="709">They didn't want to answer. </sentence><sentence id="710">So, arriving in <span class="populated place">Bulg rica</span>, we put...we were put in a <span class="spatial object">column</span> around...surrounded by the...the gendarmes, and...and went to the...to the direction to, uh, <span class="populated place">Bolgrad</span>. </sentence><sentence id="711">We entered in this <span class="populated place">city</span> of <span class="populated place">Bolgrad</span>, and it was a Dante-esque view. </sentence><sentence id="712">Try to imagine: You enter in a <span class="populated place">city</span>--empty <span class="populated place">city</span>, empty <span class="dlf">streets</span>. </sentence><sentence id="713">Nobody on the <span class="dlf">streets</span>. </sentence><sentence id="714">The <span class="building">houses</span>, they don't have <span class="dlf">doors</span>. </sentence><sentence id="715">The <span class="dlf">windows</span> are smashed. </sentence><sentence id="716">Everything is pillaged. </sentence><sentence id="717">Just one dog, or a cat, running on the <span class="dlf">street</span>. </sentence><sentence id="718">In the center of the <span class="dlf">street</span>, it was, uh...it was some <span class="building">buildings</span> occupied by the Romanian administration. </sentence><sentence id="719">And we asked to stay there, to be sent in a certain direction. </sentence><sentence id="720">We didn't know nothing. </sentence><sentence id="721">Sitting there, waiting for orders, some Jews start to...to walk around. </sentence><sentence id="722">An officer come, uh, uh, with a horse... riding a horse. </sentence><sentence id="723">And he saw the people, uh, walking around; and he start beating them with...with...with a whip. </sentence><sentence id="724">With a whip, so everybody was very concentrate. </sentence><sentence id="725">A friend of mine, he was a little bit older as me--two or three year older. </sentence><sentence id="726">He told me, "Do you know something? </sentence><sentence id="727">I was here in <span class="populated place">Bolgrad</span>, in...in my military duty in an artillery regiment...the art...the number 30[th] Regiment of Artillery from <span class="populated place">Bolgrad</span>. </sentence><sentence id="728">And I remember that in a Purim night, Jews from <span class="populated place">Bolgrad</span> used to go to this regiment and ask the commander to allow the Jewish boys in the Army to come to this <span class="building">Jewish houses</span> to celebrate the festi... the...the festivity of...the festival of Purim. </sentence><sentence id="729">So I remember that the <span class="building">house</span> is not so far. </sentence><sentence id="730">It's very close from here. </sentence><sentence id="731">Do you want to go with me to this <span class="building">house</span>? </sentence><sentence id="732">I want to see this <span class="building">house</span>." </sentence><sentence id="733">And we went. </sentence><sentence id="734">You know, it's a very interesting moment which I can't forget. </sentence><sentence id="735">And I think I wrote about this in my book. </sentence><sentence id="736">Imagine, I went in this <span class="building">house</span>--completely empty. </sentence><sentence id="737">And this guy start to tell me, "In this <span class="interior space">corner</span>, it was a <span class="spatial object">piano</span>. </sentence><sentence id="738">And on this <span class="spatial object">piano</span>, a young lady plays a <span class="spatial object">piano</span>. </sentence><sentence id="739">And the <span class="building">house</span> was full with people, and the smell of food. </sentence><sentence id="740">And everything, it was alive. </sentence><sentence id="741">And now everything is dead. </sentence><sentence id="742">Only ghosts." </sentence><sentence id="743">And I understand then why it was this smell in the ...in the <span class="building">station</span> of <span class="populated place">Bulg rica</span>. </sentence><sentence id="744">It was a common grave, a <span class="building">mass grave</span>. </sentence><sentence id="745">The people from <span class="populated place">Bolgrad</span>, they are shot and put in this <span class="interior space">grave</span>. </sentence><sentence id="746">After then, uh, we swear...we went to, uh...to a <span class="populated place">village</span>, the name it was <span class="populated place">Cubei</span>. </sentence><sentence id="747">It was a <span class="building">quarry</span>. </sentence><sentence id="748">We start to work in this <span class="building">quarry</span>. </sentence><sentence id="749">A hard labor. </sentence><sentence id="750">We went...we were obliged to make a cubic meter of stones taken from the, from the... from...from the <span class="env feature">earth</span>. </sentence><sentence id="751">And we worked "til then late in the fall. </sentence><sentence id="752">We were exhausted, without clothes. </sentence><sentence id="753">And we are sent by <span class="spatial object">train</span> to, uh, <span class="populated place">Dobruja</span> [<span class="region">region</span>], to another famous, uh, <span class="dlf">quarry</span>. </sentence><sentence id="754">It was <span class="populated place">Turcoaia</span>. </sentence><sentence id="755">The <span class="region">county</span>, it was <span class="populated place">Tulcea</span>. </sentence><sentence id="756">The <span class="populated place">city</span> was M cin. </sentence><sentence id="757">And I remember that leaving from...from <span class="populated place">Bulg rica</span>, from <span class="populated place">Bul</span>...<span class="populated place">Bessarabia</span> to...to <span class="populated place">Turcoaia</span>, to...to <span class="populated place">Gala_i</span> to <span class="populated place">Br_ila</span> to cross the <span class="env feature">River</span>, uh, Da...Da...<span class="env feature">Danube</span>, it was terrible cold... cold. </sentence><sentence id="758">And I didn't manage to enter in, in, in a...in a wag...<span class="spatial object">wagon</span>, you know. </sentence><sentence id="759">So I stood on the <span class="dlf">stairs</span> of the <span class="spatial object">train</span>. </sentence><sentence id="760">And I said, "I'll froze. </sentence><sentence id="761">I'll got froze." </sentence><sentence id="762">And I...L...1 go down, and I put around me a...a...some <span class="spatial object">rug</span>. </sentence><sentence id="763">I have a <span class="spatial object">rug</span>. </sentence><sentence id="764">I slept on this <span class="spatial object">rug</span>, so it protected me. </sentence><sentence id="765">And I didn't froze. </sentence><sentence id="766">I have this <span class="spatial object">train</span>. </sentence><sentence id="767">So we cross the <span class="env feature">Danube</span>; and we start to work in <span class="populated place">Cubei</span>...in, uh, <span class="populated place">Turcoaia</span>, to the <span class="dlf">quarry</span>. </sentence><sentence id="768">It was a very hard situation there. </sentence><sentence id="769">We are under the command of a certain Captain Munteanu--a degenerate drunkard, [who] played cards. </sentence><sentence id="770">He...he need money all the time. </sentence><sentence id="771">He took ours...all our money which we still have. </sentence><sentence id="772">And uh...and it was late in October, late in November, when we were allowed to go <span class="building">home</span> for a short period of time to change our clothes, to take our winter...winter clothes. </sentence><sentence id="773">And after the Christmas, we have to go <span class="building">home</span> [NB: to the <span class="dlf">quarry</span>]. </sentence><sentence id="774">Then I wrote on this card, on a... "I have to go to <span class="populated place">camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="775">It's after Christmas." </sentence><sentence id="776">We go back to...to <span class="populated place">Turcoaia</span>, and we stood [NB: stayed] there over the winter. </sentence><sentence id="777">In the spring, we start to work to, uh...um, at some <span class="dlf">railroad</span>, to transport the...the... the, uh, stone from the <span class="dlf">quarry</span> which we...we brought out. </sentence><sentence id="778">And, uh, it was "til, uh..."til the "43, late in "43, when we moved to another, uh, <span class="populated place">camp</span> not...not so from...from our <span class="building">hou</span>...from <span class="populated place">Hu_i</span>. </sentence><sentence id="779">It was near <span class="populated place">Birlad</span>. </sentence><sentence id="780">It was part of improvement of our life. </sentence><sentence id="781">Because we managed to have some friends in <span class="populated place">Birlad</span>; they brought us some food, some...brought some clothes. </sentence><sentence id="782">So it was a little bit easy for us. </sentence><sentence id="783">We sit over the winter in 1943-1944; when, uh...when we were brought <span class="building">home</span> in summer of "44. </sentence><sentence id="784">And we worked to the <span class="dlf">highways</span>, to repair the <span class="dlf">highways</span> near the <span class="populated place">city</span> of <span class="populated place">Hu_i</span>. </sentence><sentence id="785">And, uh, in 1944, in August "44, it happens that the Hu_i, it was, uh, occupied by, uh, liberate [NB: liberators]--we can say "liberate," but it's...it's the truth--by the Russian Army. </sentence><sentence id="786">After a day, the Romanians, uh, took over the... the <span class="populated place">city</span>; which it was, uh, fig...<span class="dlf">street</span> fights. </sentence><sentence id="787">But the third day, the Romanian retreat...the Romanian Army, uh, surrendered; and, uh, we were, how to say, liberated. </sentence><sentence id="788">And, uh, it was for us, the war, it was over. </sentence><sentence id="789">It wasn't over for the rest of the <span class="country">Romania</span>; but of this <span class="region">part of Moldavia</span>, this part of <span class="country">Romania</span> where I lived with my parents, we managed to...to...to go through this period of time with my sack...sack with bones. </sentence><sentence id="790">So we survived. </sentence><sentence id="791">What do you want to ask me more? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="902">Q: Yah. </sentence><sentence id="903">I... would like to know what happened to you after the war. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="906">A: After the war, I need a pair of pants. ( </sentence><sentence id="907">Laughter) I need a a jacket. </sentence><sentence id="908">And my father didn't have the money to give me, to ...to buy this. </sentence><sentence id="909">I was young. </sentence><sentence id="910">I want to talk to girls, to, to met people. </sentence><sentence id="911">But I need the pants. </sentence><sentence id="912">So my father give me his only one suit. </sentence><sentence id="913">And we go to a <span class="building">tailor</span>, and he tried to manage to arrange for myself. </sentence><sentence id="914">So I was very well elegant in this period of time. </sentence><sentence id="915">So we start to reorganize the life in <span class="populated place">Hu_i</span>. </sentence><sentence id="916">We need a mayor. </sentence><sentence id="917">We need a prefect. </sentence><sentence id="918">We need the police. </sentence><sentence id="919">We need a...a <span class="building">Chamber of Commerce</span>. </sentence><sentence id="920">We need to start to... to open the <span class="dlf">windows</span> of the <span class="building">stores</span>, and to have a normal life. </sentence><sentence id="921">And we're not...we start to have...to open the <span class="building">schools</span>. </sentence><sentence id="922">I receive a job as a Secretary of the Comm...of the <span class="building">Chamber of Commerce</span>. </sentence><sentence id="923">I entered it; everything it was destroyed and broken. </sentence><sentence id="924">We didn't have...we didn't even have pencil to...to ...to start to write some orders and to give some authorization. </sentence><sentence id="925">We had everything, (laughter) but it was a very funny situation. </sentence><sentence id="926">Nobody...nobody give us order. </sentence><sentence id="927">But we have to do something. </sentence><sentence id="928">But I remember that after a short period of time--is to say three weeks, four weeks, of a kind of republic in <span class="country">Romania</span>--a delegation of the government from <span class="country">Romania</span> come in <span class="country">Moldova</span> [NB: <span class="country">Moldavia</span>] to see what happened there. </sentence><sentence id="929">Because nobody knows in <span class="populated place">Bucharest</span> what happens in <span class="country">Moldova</span>. </sentence><sentence id="930">So they start to say to us, "Look. </sentence><sentence id="931">What you are, stay...stay in place. </sentence><sentence id="932">You are the policeman; you'll be the policeman. </sentence><sentence id="933">You are the mayor; you'll be the mayor." </sentence><sentence id="934">So, uh, that we...they...the first thing what they did, they organized the Communist Party. </sentence><sentence id="935">Which I didn't belong. </sentence><sentence id="936">I said, "It's time to think about." </sentence><sentence id="937">So 1944, 1945 and 1946, I didn't join the Communist Party. </sentence><sentence id="938">In 1946, I said, "It's any reason to stay in Hu_i?I don't want to do this here. </sentence><sentence id="939">And I don't know...I don't think I have a future." </sentence><sentence id="940">So we moved in <span class="populated place">Bucharest</span>...to <span class="populated place">Bucharest</span>. </sentence><sentence id="941">I tried to have a job. </sentence><sentence id="942">I couldn't have a job, because I didn't...I wasn't a Communist [Party] member. </sentence><sentence id="943">Later...later, in 1947, when the Carol [II], the king, has...was obliged to...to abdicate, it was no other way." </sentence><sentence id="944">So I said, "Okay, your way. </sentence><sentence id="945">I am a Communist, too." </sentence><sentence id="946">So we joined the Communist Party, and I have a job. </sentence><sentence id="947">And, uh, I was a member of the Party "til I left <span class="country">Romania</span>. </sentence><sentence id="948">And I remember when I received the citizenship here in <span class="country">America</span>, the guy...the person from the <span class="building">Immigration Office</span>" asked me, "But you are a long time in the Communist Party." " </sentence><sentence id="949">Yes. </sentence><sentence id="950">Fora long time, I have to eat." " </sentence><sentence id="951">But how come?" </sentence><sentence id="952">And I said, "Sir, you have a very nice job here, asking me why. </sentence><sentence id="953">Do you suppose if you have this job in <span class="country">Romania</span>, asking people why, you can be or have the job without being a Communist Party [member]?" </sentence><sentence id="954">And he start to laugh, "I know the story." </sentence><sentence id="955">So I was a full soldier. </sentence><sentence id="956">I clapped, when I have to clap. </sentence><sentence id="957">I have to stay ...uh, say, "Hurray," when I have to say, "Hurray." </sentence><sentence id="958">And that was the life. </sentence><sentence id="959">But after the war, it was something interesting in my life, living in <span class="populated place">Hu_i</span> with a friend of mine. </sentence><sentence id="960">His name is Anton Celaru. </sentence><sentence id="961">I don't know if you know him. </sentence><sentence id="962">He was a journalist working for <span class="building">Informa_ia</span> <span class="populated place">Bucure_tiului</span> for many years. </sentence><sentence id="963">We stood [NB: stayed] in. </sentence><sentence id="964">We, uh, all here with Titi Fierstein, we, uh, printed then a newspaper. </sentence><sentence id="965">I remember that the newspaper, the first newspaper after the war in this <span class="region">part of the world</span>, has reprinted in two...two hundred copies. </sentence><sentence id="966">And they sold these copy through a <span class="dlf">window</span>; because everybody wants to have this copy...uh, this newspaper. </sentence><sentence id="967">What I remember about this <span class="building">newspaper</span> is that my first article-- which I wrote after the "liberation," [so] to say--it was an open letter to the <span class="building">Major Pris_caru</span>. </sentence><sentence id="968">> Tt was not Carol II who abdicated in 1947, but his son, Michael I--who became king when his father fled the <span class="country">country</span> in September 1940, shortly after Antonescu came to power.8 Immigration and Naturalization Service (also: INS). </sentence><sentence id="969"> Do you remember I told you, from this gendarme. </sentence><sentence id="970">I said, "I feel like I have the duty to wrote to you, and to thank you now for your humanity. </sentence><sentence id="971">For the human feelings. </sentence><sentence id="972">When we are down, we are nobodies, you told us you can't eat as long as you know that we are hungry. </sentence><sentence id="973">So I am writing this letter to you." </sentence><sentence id="974">L...I didn't know if he is alive. </sentence><sentence id="975">I didn't know where he is. </sentence><sentence id="976">The story is that people from <span class="populated place">Hu_i</span>, who after I left the ci...my <span class="populated place">city</span>, they find him. </sentence><sentence id="977">And they ask him to come to...to live with them. </sentence><sentence id="978">But this is another story. </sentence><sentence id="979">So, uh, I come in <span class="populated place">Bucharest</span>. </sentence><sentence id="980">I had a job in the <span class="building">Ministr</span>...in the <span class="building">Department of Art</span>. </sentence><sentence id="981">And I was sent in a <span class="populated place">city</span> <span class="populated place">Lugoj</span>, in <span class="populated place">Banat</span> [<span class="region">region</span>], uh, being a Concierge Cultural--a cultural counsellor. </sentence><sentence id="982">I don't know what. </sentence><sentence id="983">After then, I was, uh, brought back in <span class="populated place">Bucharest</span>. </sentence><sentence id="984">I give, I...I receive a...a...an "advancement" [promotion], how to say it; and, uh, I was General Inspector. </sentence><sentence id="985">I work with Octav Livezeanu and Eduard Mezinceascu. </sentence><sentence id="986">And, uh, after then, I was, uh, a kind of manager of the Department of the <span class="building">Cultural Houses</span> from the <span class="populated place">city</span>...the Commitee Culturale, how to say; and, uh, I worked a lot of time there. </sentence><sentence id="987">Suddenly, they remember me. </sentence><sentence id="988">And they say, "Hey, hey! </sentence><sentence id="989">Just a minute! </sentence><sentence id="990">Who was your father?" " </sentence><sentence id="991">My father was a <span class="dlf">vineyard</span> [NB: vintner]." " </sentence><sentence id="992">So you don't have a ...you don't have a...a sound origin. </sentence><sentence id="993">You don't have...you are not...you are not a friend of ours. </sentence><sentence id="994">You are...you are just a com...a road companion." </sentence><sentence id="995">And they...they fire me. </sentence><sentence id="996">And I was without job, with...being a Communist, a member of the Communist Party, without a job. </sentence><sentence id="997">And [they're] telling me that I...1...J am...1 am an enemy of the people. </sentence><sentence id="998">Later...later on, I receive a job--the <span class="building">Department of Agriculture</span>. </sentence><sentence id="999">I said, "I don't have nothing common with this. </sentence><sentence id="1000">I...1 don't know nothing about this." </sentence><sentence id="1001">So I have to have this job for a good part of my life. </sentence><sentence id="1002">And, uh, because I didn't have nothing in common, with, uh...and I couldn't find a job in the Ministry--the Department of the Culture. </sentence><sentence id="1003">They didn't want to give me back the job. </sentence><sentence id="1004">I found a job as a Secretary Literary was a...with a...with the circus, which I worked. </sentence><sentence id="1005">And kind of a period of time. </sentence><sentence id="1006">And they built the new <span class="building">building</span> of the <span class="building">circus</span>; I was the director of there--of this <span class="building">building</span>, of this <span class="interior space">hall</span> of activity, of cultural activities there. </sentence><sentence id="1007">And after then, I moved to, uh...I was General Secretary of the...of the <span class="building">publishing house</span> of the Tourism, with Pop Simion was the director at this period of time. </sentence><sentence id="1008">I don't know if you know some...something about <span class="populated place">Pop Simion</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1009">A nice man. </sentence><sentence id="1010">After then, I said to myself, "I build enough socialism. </sentence><sentence id="1011">The socialism is blowing in <span class="country">Romania</span>; and [it] can blow without me, too." </sentence><sentence id="1012">So what I have to do? </sentence><sentence id="1013">To emigrate, it was not easy. </sentence><sentence id="1014">Because we had some familial problems with the parents of my wife; so we couldn't leave the <span class="country">country</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1015">But I didn't want; I considered I built enough socialism. </sentence><sentence id="1016">So one day, see, I said to myself, "I am sick. </sentence><sentence id="1017">Not just tired." </sentence><sentence id="1018">So I managed--paying a good money--to be retired as being a sick man; and from this position, after a couple of years, I emigrate to <span class="country">America</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1134">Q: Uh, we have to stop now because we need a short time to change tapes. </sentence><sentence id="1135"> [ </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1136">A: Okay. </sentence><sentence id="1137">So I immigrate to <span class="country">America</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1138">I have this point...] [TEXT IN PRECEDING BRACKETS NOT ON VIDEOTAPE] TAPE #2 </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1139">Q: We are on tape again. </sentence><sentence id="1140">And I'd like to ask you to describe for us the conditions of arriving in <span class="populated place">Hu_i</span> immediately after the war. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1143">A: You know, I...I tried to recollect this period of time. </sentence><sentence id="1144">It's... You know, never... didn't think never about this. </sentence><sentence id="1145">But it was a kind of explosion. </sentence><sentence id="1146">A kind of rejoice. </sentence><sentence id="1147">You have to understand, from a psychological point of view, this situation of this specially of the young people. </sentence><sentence id="1148">Suddenly, from the bottom of the society, you were somebody. </sentence><sentence id="1149">You have to have...you can...have the opportunity to have a job. </sentence><sentence id="1150">You have a certain position--a certain position which you can never dream to have. </sentence><sentence id="1151">You are a human being, too. </sentence><sentence id="1152">You walk on the <span class="dlf">street</span>, and people salute you. </sentence><sentence id="1153">And I remember something which I like to tell you. </sentence><sentence id="1154">There is something which I just forgot. </sentence><sentence id="1155">One evening, I walked with a friend of mine. </sentence><sentence id="1156">A girl. </sentence><sentence id="1157">As usual in the center of a small <span class="populated place">city</span>, everybody know each other. </sentence><sentence id="1158">And walking on the <span class="dlf">street</span>, that was a group of three or four boys--old hooligans. </sentence><sentence id="1159">I know them. </sentence><sentence id="1160">And they saw me coming with the girl. </sentence><sentence id="1161">And they blocked my...my, uh... I... couldn't go through them. </sentence><sentence id="1162">It was only one way to do this--just to to go around them. </sentence><sentence id="1163">In the same way in which I did all my life. </sentence><sentence id="1164">And I said [to myself], "This...now, I don't want to do this." </sentence><sentence id="1165">And I said, "Sorry. </sentence><sentence id="1166">I have to go through." </sentence><sentence id="1167">And they parted, and I went through them. </sentence><sentence id="1168">It was the first time in my life then when I said, "I am somebody. </sentence><sentence id="1169">You can't stop me." </sentence><sentence id="1170">It was for a short period of time. </sentence><sentence id="1171">After then, I learned my lesson. </sentence><sentence id="1172">The same Janet with another haircut, in <span class="country">Romania</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1173">But anyway, it was a vety...very interesting period of time. </sentence><sentence id="1174">People get married. ( </sentence><sentence id="1175">Laughter) Everybody wants to ...to get married, to...to have a family, to be together. </sentence><sentence id="1176">Uh, everybody is...uh, a lot of people went to <span class="populated place">Bucharest</span>, or to <span class="populated place">Ia_i</span>, to start to...to study. </sentence><sentence id="1177">We worked there in...in...in our <span class="populated place">city</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1178">We have our friends. </sentence><sentence id="1179">Myself, I...L..I thought I have to...to...to get to get married. </sentence><sentence id="1180">But that happens like in life...as in life. </sentence><sentence id="1181">And I didn't do this then. </sentence><sentence id="1182">So it was a very interesting period of time. </sentence><sentence id="1183">But shortly, a lot of things changed. </sentence><sentence id="1184">People there are poor. </sentence><sentence id="1185">They are poor. </sentence><sentence id="1186">The ...the war paid... Everybody paid a great fee in this war. </sentence><sentence id="1187">So, uh, nobody had an opportunity to do something to improve the life, of condition. </sentence><sentence id="1188">And the meantime, <span class="country">Moldavia</span> was st...st... striken...strucken by a, uh, drought. </sentence><sentence id="1189">It was a fantastic famine in <span class="country">Moldavia</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1190">So when...when we... I was in <span class="populated place">Hu_i</span> and <span class="populated place">Bucharest</span>; from leaving <span class="populated place">Hu i</span>, I tried to send something to my parents. </sentence><sentence id="1191">But it wasn't enough. </sentence><sentence id="1192">It was a very high inflation in <span class="country">Romania</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1193">Everybody had...has to pay million. </sentence><sentence id="1194">They...they print <span class="building">mill</span>...paper--bills, money--for five million leu." </sentence><sentence id="1195">Only, for five million you can buy nothing. </sentence><sentence id="1196">Absolutely nothing. </sentence><sentence id="1197">So it was a very hard period of time in <span class="country">Romania</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1198">And the famine, and the people there are go...going from one part of the <span class="country">country</span> to another part of the <span class="country">country</span>. " </sentence><sentence id="1199">Unit of Romanian currency. </sentence><sentence id="1200"> And I remember when I received my first job, in March 19...in 1989 [NB: 1949], in <span class="populated place">Lugoj</span>, in <span class="populated place">Banat</span> [<span class="region">region</span>]. </sentence><sentence id="1201">In <span class="populated place">Banat</span>, it wasn't famine. </sentence><sentence id="1202">It happens it was a luckier... luckier part of the <span class="country">Romania</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1203">And I went to a <span class="building">restaurant</span> and I asked to give me something, some, uh...some food. </sentence><sentence id="1204">I couldn't eat, because it was period of time when I didn't [have] what to eat in <span class="populated place">Bucharest</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1205">And so it...it was a very hard situation in <span class="country">Romania</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1206">Very hard. </sentence><sentence id="1207">I don't talk about the political situation; because from the political point of view, it was start to be hard from the end of 1980...1948 and beginning of 1989 [NB: 1949]. </sentence><sentence id="1208">It was a period of changement, from the political point of view. </sentence><sentence id="1209">But as individual, it was hard to live in <span class="country">Romania</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1210">We didn't have what to eat. </sentence><sentence id="1211">So for me, when ...when...when my boss in the <span class="building">Department of Arts</span> told me, "Where do you want to go to have a job in <span class="region">province</span>?" </sentence><sentence id="1212">I said, "Everywhere it's something to eat!" </sentence><sentence id="1213">So they send me to <span class="populated place">Lugoj</span>, which is a heaven for me. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1285">Q: Could you describe, please, your arrival in <span class="country">United States</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1287">A: Arrival in <span class="country">United States</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1289">Q: Your coming to <span class="country">America</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1291">A: We arrived...we arrived on the...on the October 27 or 29-- something like this. </sentence><sentence id="1292">In the fall. </sentence><sentence id="1293">Hey, it's interesting, what I...what I felt for the first time. </sentence><sentence id="1294">Uh, we, uh...we, uh...I, uh...we receive a... We are transferred from <span class="building">Kennedy Airport</span> to, uh, La...<span class="building">LaGuardia Airport</span>; and I received a <span class="interior space">room</span> in a <span class="building">motel</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1295">It was hot. </sentence><sentence id="1296">It was stuffy. </sentence><sentence id="1297">No <span class="env feature">air</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1298">And as a Romanian, I went to open the <span class="dlf">doors</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1299">But the <span class="dlf">door</span>, it was locked. </sentence><sentence id="1300">I went to open the <span class="dlf">window</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1301">The <span class="dlf">windows</span> there are locked. </sentence><sentence id="1302">And I said, "Where in Hell you can have a little bit of fresh air in <span class="country">America</span>?" </sentence><sentence id="1303">And my daughter said, "Look, you have the <span class="spatial object">air conditioner</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1304">Turn the <span class="spatial object">air conditioner</span>, you have fresh air." </sentence><sentence id="1305">It was my first contact in <span class="country">America</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1306">But before all this, the man from the Customer [NB: Customs], he opened .... I brought from the <span class="building">American Embassy</span> from <span class="populated place">Paris</span> a... a yellow envelope. </sentence><sentence id="1307">And the lady from the Ame...from <span class="building">Embassy</span> from <span class="populated place">Paris</span> told me, "You have to give... Uh, don't open this envelope; because you have...there are very important documents here. </sentence><sentence id="1308">And, uh, you have to give to the Custom." </sentence><sentence id="1309">And I give the envelope to the Custom, and they open the...the...the envelope. </sentence><sentence id="1310">And he gave to me, to my wife and to my daughter my...our "green card." </sentence><sentence id="1311">And he said, "You are a resident in <span class="country">America</span>, and you are all welcome here." </sentence><sentence id="1312">So I, as an American resident coming there in <span class="country">America</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1313">Because we came to be unified with our family. </sentence><sentence id="1314">Uh, I remember, regarding our arrival here in, uh...I remember that I had a discussion with the director from <span class="building">HIAS</span> from <span class="populated place">Paris</span>--a certain Schwartz (ph). </sentence><sentence id="1315">Gentleman Schwartz. </sentence><sentence id="1316">And he told me once, "You have... you'll have problems to accommodate in <span class="country">America</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1317">But don't be...don't worry. </sentence><sentence id="1318">Go to <span class="populated place">Boston</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1319">You'll find there people there who they are not related with you. </sentence><sentence id="1320">They'll help you. </sentence><sentence id="1321">They don't let you down." </sentence><sentence id="1322">I looked to this man. </sentence><sentence id="1323">And I said, "Maybe he knows what he's talking about." </sentence><sentence id="1324">But I was...I was very afraid. </sentence><sentence id="1325"> Later on, when I wrote and I published my last book, Moshe Kopf and His World, I wrote a short story about this encounter with the man with a straight face. </sentence><sentence id="1326">Uh, I think I said it's a tribute. </sentence><sentence id="1327">I remember my social worker--a lady. </sentence><sentence id="1328">He [NB: she] has a small...a small <span class="building">office</span> in <span class="populated place">Boston</span>, in the Jewish Family [Services]. </sentence><sentence id="1329">And I talked to her so many times. </sentence><sentence id="1330">And I says...every time when I left from this <span class="building">office</span>, I said to myself, "If somebody has the opportunity to record the echoes of the voices who talk to this lady [in] this small <span class="building">office</span>, it'll be a universe of human sufferings!" </sentence><sentence id="1331">And I said, "I have to pay [NB: repay] this something for this lady." </sentence><sentence id="1332">And my first publish...published, uh, piece which I wrote, it was an open letter to this lady--"The Unseen Diploma." </sentence><sentence id="1333">She had behind her her diploma as social worker. </sentence><sentence id="1334">But I talked about her soul, her wonderful, uh, human feelings. </sentence><sentence id="1335">So I wrote a piece, which is in my book, too--"The Unseen Diploma." </sentence><sentence id="1336">And there are a lot of people who tried to help us. </sentence><sentence id="1337">And with my broken English, when I start to talk to people everybody's saying, "Oh, your English is very good!" </sentence><sentence id="1338">I know how good is my English. ( </sentence><sentence id="1339">Chuckling) But I know those people try to understand us. </sentence><sentence id="1340">They give us <span class="building">shelter</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1341">They give us food. </sentence><sentence id="1342">They give us hope. </sentence><sentence id="1343">You understand...have to understand something. </sentence><sentence id="1344">I discover my identity, not living in <span class="country">Romania</span> so many years. </sentence><sentence id="1345">I didn't left <span class="country">Romania</span> a young man. </sentence><sentence id="1346">I don't want to say I'm a old [man] now, but I wasn't young then. </sentence><sentence id="1347">I discovered my.... I suffered like a Jew in <span class="country">Romania</span>; but I didn't know I am Jew, because I never considered. </sentence><sentence id="1348">I was a Romanian! </sentence><sentence id="1349">Here, I discover Iam Jew. </sentence><sentence id="1350">And I discover the whole story about the Holocaust, and what happened in <span class="country">Romania</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1351">Here, in the <span class="country">United States</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1352">You know, I had a job at <span class="building">Boston University</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1353">Being here in <span class="country">America</span>, I said--and I...I didn't have [a job]--"Without a language and a good English, what I can do? </sentence><sentence id="1354">The only thing which I can do is to be a kind of a bookkeeper or accountant, or something like this." </sentence><sentence id="1355">So I attended a <span class="building">university</span> course, which I finished with A+. </sentence><sentence id="1356">And I have a diploma in accounting. </sentence><sentence id="1357">So I was in accounting, but I am a writer by profession. </sentence><sentence id="1358">So each...each lunch time, every day...absolutely every day in my lunch time, I went to the <span class="building">library</span> and make research in trying to find out about the <span class="country">Romania</span>, Romanian Jew, Romanian history, and so on. </sentence><sentence id="1359">So...so I start to write my book, The Forgotten Holocaust.* </sentence><sentence id="1360">This book is not my book. </sentence><sentence id="1361">Each <span class="dlf">line</span>, each word, each page--I did it. </sentence><sentence id="1362">I written...I write it. </sentence><sentence id="1363">But this doesn't belong to me. </sentence><sentence id="1364">It's the book of my generation, of my people. </sentence><sentence id="1365">And being here in <span class="country">America</span>, I had opportunity to read it...to write this. </sentence><sentence id="1366">Living so many years in <span class="country">Romania</span> and going so many years in the <span class="building">library</span> of that <span class="building">academy</span> in <span class="country">Romania</span>, making research from my books which I wrote there, I never think about it. </sentence><sentence id="1367">Because nobody give me the opportunity to see a newspaper, a piece of paper regarding this period of time. </sentence><sentence id="1368">So if somebody is...can accept this euphemism "born in the second time," I am born.... I emigrate, because being a Jew in <span class="country">Romania</span>.... Here in <span class="country">America</span> that I discovered [myself] to be a Jew, living here in <span class="country">America</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1369">This is...it was something which which I can't forget. </sentence><sentence id="1370">It is not to...to say, "Thank * 1.C. Butnaru, The Silent Holocaust: <span class="country">Romania</span> and Its Jews (<span class="populated place">New York</span>: <span class="building">Greenwood Press</span>, 1992). </sentence><sentence id="1371"> you, <span class="country">America</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1372">You did this, so and so." </sentence><sentence id="1373">This relationship between me and <span class="country">America</span>, it is another kind. </sentence><sentence id="1374">A kind of a... And I have to tell you something. </sentence><sentence id="1375">My character...my character, uh, Moshe Kopf, in my last book, he used to live in <span class="country">Romania</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1376">And he has to exp...to ...to talk to somebody, to express himself; but he was afraid. </sentence><sentence id="1377">So he wrote a letter to himself. </sentence><sentence id="1378">And the second part of my book, when he lived in <span class="country">America</span> [NB: <span class="country">Romania</span>?] </sentence><sentence id="1379">waiting for the America visa, he wrote to a friend of, uh, him letters in <span class="country">Romania</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1380">Arriving in <span class="country">America</span>, he wrote letter to the same le....uh, friend. </sentence><sentence id="1381">And it is a letter which is very important to this problem--me and <span class="country">America</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1382">My relationship with the <span class="country">United States</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1383">Moshe Kopf, walking in <span class="populated place">New York</span> one day, met a very interesting person--Christoforus Columbus. </sentence><sentence id="1384">And he start to...they start to walk, to talk together. </sentence><sentence id="1385">And Moshe Kopf said to...to...to Christopher Columbus, "You know, Master, you did a great job discovering <span class="country">America</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1386">But, you know, if you are doing something to be good, you have to do it in a right time. </sentence><sentence id="1387">You discovered <span class="country">America</span> too late!" </sentence><sentence id="1388">And Christopher Columbus asked him, "What means, "too late." " </sentence><sentence id="1389">Of course it is too late! </sentence><sentence id="1390">If you discovered <span class="country">America</span> when the Jew were liberated by Moshe [NB: Moses] from their...their slavery ...Slave situation in <span class="country">Egypt</span>, instead of cross the <span class="env feature">Red Mer</span> [NB: <span class="env feature">Red Sea</span>], you can part the <span class="env feature">water</span> in the <span class="env feature">Atlantic</span> here. </sentence><sentence id="1391">He is ...". </sentence><sentence id="1392">How to say? " </sentence><sentence id="1393">He knowed how to do the job. </sentence><sentence id="1394">He can part the <span class="env feature">water</span> in the <span class="env feature">Atlantic</span>, and the Jew can arrive in <span class="country">America</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1395">And he can avoid so much persecution, blood, and tears, and so on." </sentence><sentence id="1396">And Christopher Columbus said to him, "Maybe you're right. </sentence><sentence id="1397">Who knows?" </sentence><sentence id="1398">And he depart from him, and he go back on his, uh, <span class="spatial object">pedestal</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1399">Moshe Kopf, leaving <span class="populated place">Christopher Columbus</span>, he thought...he said. </sentence><sentence id="1400">And Christopher said, "Come back. </sentence><sentence id="1401">I want to tell you something. </sentence><sentence id="1402">Go back and discover your <span class="country">America</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1403">I discovered a <span class="region">territory</span> which is <span class="country">America</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1404">But everybody who is arriving on this <span class="dlf">shore</span> has to discover his own <span class="country">America</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1405"><span class="region">Two Americas</span> are not the same." </sentence><sentence id="1406">No sir. </sentence><sentence id="1407">I discovered my <span class="country">America</span> here. </sentence><sentence id="1408">And I am very grateful for this. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1527">Q: I think that this is a beautiful end. </sentence><sentence id="1528">Uh, thank you very, very much for coming. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1531">A: Thank you. </sentence><sentence id="1532">Thank you for giving me the opportunity to talk. </sentence><sentence id="1533"> PHOTOGRAPHS () <span class="populated place">Village</span> scene. </sentence><sentence id="1534">Ion's family in <span class="populated place">Hu _i</span>, circa 1922-23, in the <span class="dlf">vineyard</span> belonging to his uncle-- shown on the far right of the picture. </sentence><sentence id="1535">The <span class="dlf">vineyard</span> originally belonged to Ion's grandfather, and was given to this uncle as a wedding present between 1912 and 1914. </sentence><sentence id="1536">From left to right in the photograph are: Jon's aunt (his father's youngest sister), an old woman whom he identifies as the mother-in-law of his aunt and wife of the man on the far right of the picture, Ion's sister (now living in <span class="country">Israel</span>), Ion's aunt (his father's oldest sister), Ion's cousin Solomon (nephew of his grandfather), Aaron Butnaru (lon's grandfather and the family patriarch), Ion's grandmother, Ion's cousin Mathilda (then a small child), Adele (a friend of Ion's sister), Adele's father (owner of the <span class="dlf">vineyard</span>), Ion's Uncle Yerachmiel (brother of his grandfather), Sarah (a small child--probably a cousin). ( </sentence><sentence id="1537">2) Ion at age 22 in December 1942. </sentence><sentence id="1538">Just after this photo was taken, he left <span class="building">home</span> for a <span class="populated place">labor camp</span> in <span class="populated place">Turcoaia</span>, in the <span class="region">Dobruja region</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1539"> </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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