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layout: transcript |
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interviewee: alice lok cahana |
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rg_number: rg-50.030.0051 |
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pdf_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/oh_findingaids/rg-50.030.0051_trs_en.pdf |
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ushmm_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn504445 |
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gender: f |
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birth_date: 1929-02-07 |
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birth_year: 1929.0 |
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place_of_birth: sárvár |
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country: hungary |
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experience_group: survivor |
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ghetto(s)_encyclopedia: none |
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ghetto: sarvar |
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camp(s)_encyclopedia: auschwitz |
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camp: none |
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non_ss_camp: none |
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region: none |
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needs_research: none |
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data_entry: cl |
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accession: 1990.478.1 |
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revisit: none |
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tags: transcripts |
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<body><dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="1"> ALICE LOK CAHANA December 4, 1990 </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3">Q: We're on? </sentence><sentence id="4">Ok. </sentence><sentence id="5">Will you tell me your full name please? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="9">A: I'm Alice Lok Cahana. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="11">Q: And where and when were you born? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="13">A: I was born in <span class="populated place">Budapest</span>, <span class="country">Hungary</span>. </sentence><sentence id="14">And we lived in <span class="populated place">Sarvar</span>. </sentence><sentence id="15">That's not far from the <span class="dlf">Austrian border</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="19">Q: What year were you born? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="21">A: 1929, February 7th. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="23">Q: Would you tell me about your family and your very early childhood in <span class="populated place">Sarvar</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="25">A: It was a very community-oriented family. </sentence><sentence id="26">My grandfather was a very interesting, self-made industrialist; and he...the community really loved him, and he was elected every year to be the community leader. </sentence><sentence id="27">And it was a very caring family. </sentence><sentence id="28">The rabbi used to come in, lunch time, and...and discuss with him the public affairs; and Grandfather was always available. </sentence><sentence id="29">He was, for me, a very, very beautiful man. </sentence><sentence id="30">He used to tell me stories, and ask me to write stories. </sentence><sentence id="31">So I had...I just really, really loved him. </sentence><sentence id="32">And when Grandmother died in 1939, I felt such a special compassion. </sentence><sentence id="33">I must take somehow care of Grandfather. </sentence><sentence id="34">And always asked him, "Let me do something for you for Shabbat. </sentence><sentence id="35">Let me do....". </sentence><sentence id="36">And he says, "I'm all dressed." </sentence><sentence id="37">When I looked down and I said, "But I think your shoe needs some shining." </sentence><sentence id="38">And he said, "No, you are too big for that. </sentence><sentence id="39">I, I couldn't permit you." </sentence><sentence id="40">And I said, "Please, Grandfather! </sentence><sentence id="41">I just...let me do just something for you." </sentence><sentence id="42">Grandfather was so very special for me. </sentence><sentence id="43">And a very compassionate, wonderful man who took care of the <span class="populated place">community</span>. </sentence><sentence id="44">Who took care of the orphans of our <span class="populated place">city</span>. </sentence><sentence id="45">Anybody who would get married and didn't had family, Grandfather was taking care of them. </sentence><sentence id="46">So it was an open <span class="building">house</span> for the <span class="populated place">community</span>, in a way. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="70">Q: What about your parents? </sentence><sentence id="71">What were they like? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="74">A: Father was a very elegant, very kind, wonderful man. </sentence><sentence id="75">Mother had a great big responsibility to take care of the four children, because Father was travelling a lot to business. </sentence><sentence id="76">Actually every week, went up to <span class="populated place">Budapest</span>. </sentence><sentence id="77">He had an <span class="building">office</span> there. </sentence><sentence id="78">And so Mother had a hard responsibility to raising the children; and she was, | think, very stern, very demanding. </sentence><sentence id="79">We had to know always who we are, and there were a lot of restrictions. </sentence><sentence id="80">And, you know, when you're young and...and separate so tragically as we separated, you really don't have a good picture at all. </sentence><sentence id="81">You don't...you have a very distorted picture, of your mother particularly. </sentence><sentence id="82">Uh, you didn't came to terms about how you was accepted, or...or...so that it's very hard for me to give any kind of picture of Mother. </sentence><sentence id="83">I just remember one of my rebellious natures about her. </sentence><sentence id="84">On Mother's Day, the <span class="building">school</span> was asked always to...children were in the <span class="building">school</span> asked to perform; and I remember the last Mother's Day, I got a poem about a very soft, gentle, loving mother. </sentence><sentence id="85">And I felt, "It's a mockery. </sentence><sentence id="86">This is not my mother, and I will not read this poem!" </sentence><sentence id="87">And I chose a poem about the <span class="env feature">trees</span> that are cut so suddenly down, and it's a very beautiful poem. </sentence><sentence id="88">Until today I remember, because I didn't told my teacher. </sentence><sentence id="89">I didn't told anybody that I will change the script, and I will just say this poem about the <span class="env feature">trees</span> that are cut down so terribly harshly, and what is their sin. </sentence><sentence id="90">Almost like I would speak about our <span class="populated place">community</span> that was taken away so suddenly. </sentence><sentence id="91">So the <span class="env feature">trees</span> almost replaced this <span class="populated place">community</span>. </sentence><sentence id="92">But, of course, we did not know anything nearer to it before, what will happen to our <span class="populated place">community</span>. </sentence><sentence id="93">But the poem was so interestingly prophetic about this <span class="env feature">forest</span> that it will be erad...eradicated; and the <span class="env feature">trees</span> will all gone and the...and the birds will not sing anymore, and what is the sin of this <span class="env feature">forest</span>? </sentence><sentence id="94">So you can imagine the surprise of my mother, the surprise of my teacher, when I'm coming and talking about the <span class="env feature">forest</span>. </sentence><sentence id="95">So you... you see, I wasn't clear, really, about the mother. </sentence><sentence id="96">If I could fashion her that time, probably I would made her extremely tender, extremely soft; but later I knew how important it was that she was firm and stern, because <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span> was so horrible. </sentence><sentence id="97">And it was almost her sternness, her demands were almost an education in survival, in a way. </sentence><sentence id="98">I don't know how to tell you that. </sentence><sentence id="99">But in very early stage of...of the tragic upheaval in <span class="country">Hungary</span>, a drunk man came into our <span class="building">house</span> and says, "You know, you will all be taken out, and you will be all...all be burning up, and so....". </sentence><sentence id="100">He said some horrible words. </sentence><sentence id="101">And I got so frightened, I pretended that I faint. </sentence><sentence id="102">I just was...it was...just fell down. </sentence><sentence id="103">And Mother--instead of taking care of this man, taking him out from <span class="building">household</span>--she came over first and slapped my face, and said, "In our <span class="building">house</span>, we don't faint." </sentence><sentence id="104">Well, that was good education in <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span>, because in <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span> we didn't fainted either. </sentence><sentence id="105">And so maybe in that respect, if I...[ should apologize to my wonderful mother who really gave me a little survival instincts. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="139">Q: Tell me about your.... Here's a <span class="spatial object">kleenex</span>. </sentence><sentence id="140">Tell me about your brothers and sister. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="143">A: I had an older sister, who was two and a half year older than I was. </sentence><sentence id="144">Her name was (clearing throat) Edith. </sentence><sentence id="145">Edith was brilliant. </sentence><sentence id="146">She was very, very intelligent. </sentence><sentence id="147">Edith wrote poetry, and Edith helped already in the <span class="building">office</span>; and she was very self-sufficient. </sentence><sentence id="148">I was meek and shy and afraid. </sentence><sentence id="149">Edith was brave and not afraid. </sentence><sentence id="150">And she was always my shield, my strength. </sentence><sentence id="151">And Edith already earned a salary in the <span class="building">office</span>, and her first purchase was a <span class="spatial object">bicycle</span>. </sentence><sentence id="152">And she was so proud of her purchase; and the first thing that the Germans, when they came in, took away were the <span class="spatial object">bicycles</span> and the <span class="spatial object">radios</span>. </sentence><sentence id="153">And it was very, very hurting. </sentence><sentence id="154">It was so tangible; because we...we just were not prepared for anything so brutal. </sentence><sentence id="155">That somebody comes into your <span class="building">house</span> and takes out items, and says, "That you cannot have. </sentence><sentence id="156">That's not yours anymore, no matter how precious that is for you." </sentence><sentence id="157">And in the beginning it was really just <span class="spatial object">items</span>, but later it was life, [you know? ( </sentence><sentence id="158">ph)] We didn't knew it in the beginning. </sentence><sentence id="159">So for the whole tragedy, there wasn't much preparation in <span class="country">Hungary</span>. </sentence><sentence id="160">If there was any voices from the outside, our <span class="populated place">town</span> was pretty much shielded. </sentence><sentence id="161">Our family was even more protected. </sentence><sentence id="162">Our children...we did not know that anything horrible can happen to us. </sentence><sentence id="163">For me, it felt that our family lived in this <span class="populated place">town</span> forever. </sentence><sentence id="164">Everybody knew us. </sentence><sentence id="165">Everybody knew who we are. </sentence><sentence id="166">We knew where our place was. </sentence><sentence id="167">So there was an order that I never felt could be broken. </sentence><sentence id="168">Summers we would go to summer vacations, to the Balaton [a <span class="region">resort area</span> and <span class="env feature">lake</span> in <span class="region">western Hungary</span>, 55 miles southwest of <span class="populated place">Budapest</span>]; and in...it was an industrious family. </sentence><sentence id="169">It was a productive family. </sentence><sentence id="170">Even if we were wealthy, it wasn't...that was not important. </sentence><sentence id="171">Everybody kind of had to do a task or that task, and be helpful in the <span class="building">household</span> or whatever. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="201">Q: Your brother, too? </sentence><sentence id="202">You had a brother... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="205">A: And we had two...I had two little brothers. </sentence><sentence id="206">So, because Mother had this task, I have decided I will be the the mother of my little brother; the younger one. </sentence><sentence id="207">The older one was too close to me, and | didn't have any jurisdiction. </sentence><sentence id="208">But the little one, I could be the mother; and I adored that little boy. </sentence><sentence id="209">His name...my older brother's name is Ocsi, and the younger was Imi. </sentence><sentence id="210">And Imi was three and a half year old when we went to the (cough)...to <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span>, and he was so adorable. </sentence><sentence id="211">I used to pretend that I'd play <span class="building">house</span>, and...and he's really my...my baby. </sentence><sentence id="212">And I will shield him, and I will play mother all the time; and be that mother that I wanted my mother really should be: very tender, very loving, very caring. ( </sentence><sentence id="213">Clearing throat) All four of us one day found ourself in a calamity we could not imagine. </sentence><sentence id="214">I was reading a book--Stefan Zweig's book, The...The Restless Heart-- and I thought, "Oh, they say that they will take us to ajourney. </sentence><sentence id="215">I will save this book. </sentence><sentence id="216">It's a wonderful romance. </sentence><sentence id="217">I will read it on the journey." </sentence><sentence id="218">Because when you travel, you take a book and you read. </sentence><sentence id="219">Not knowing where they take us, how they take us; and that uh they really will reduce us, slowly, to animals. </sentence><sentence id="220">And everything came in degrees; steps, you know. </sentence><sentence id="221">And you always said, "No. </sentence><sentence id="222">Really, it's not happening. </sentence><sentence id="223">It can't happen in the 20th century." </sentence><sentence id="224">First telling you that you have to leave your <span class="building">house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="225">What does it mean? </sentence><sentence id="226">You are going, and they say the word, a very strange word. </sentence><sentence id="227">It was nothing in <span class="country">Hungary</span>. </sentence><sentence id="228">They're taking you to a <span class="populated place">ghetto</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="253">Q: Uh let's go back just a little bit, alright? </sentence><sentence id="254">Uh, because I want to know really how it happened. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="257">When did things...before the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span>, when did things begin to change? </sentence><sentence id="258">What was it like </sentence></p><p><sentence id="259"> when the war broke out? </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="260">A: Right. </sentence><sentence id="261">But it came gradually. </sentence><sentence id="262">Degrees, you see. </sentence><sentence id="263">And to a smaller <span class="populated place">town</span> it came slower than to a bigger <span class="populated place">town</span>, where you had radios all the time. </sentence><sentence id="264">And...and we knew the war. </sentence><sentence id="265">We knew that there were refugees. </sentence><sentence id="266">Uh, poor people always came. </sentence><sentence id="267">Almost every day we had some visitor who sat at our <span class="spatial object">table</span> and told stories what's happening. </sentence><sentence id="268">Sometimes we didn't believe them. </sentence><sentence id="269">Sometimes we felt they're just telling us story to get, maybe, the meal or something else. </sentence><sentence id="270">Then...and now we couldn't have help any more in the <span class="building">house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="271">And we...we got a Jewish girl, who was a refugee from <span class="country">Czechoslovakia</span>; and she used to tell me stories that she had to go flee in the middle of the night, and she couldn't find her boots. </sentence><sentence id="272">And she just found one <span class="spatial object">boot</span> and she went with one <span class="spatial object">boot</span>, crossing the <span class="dlf">border</span> over into <span class="country">Hungary</span>. </sentence><sentence id="273">I couldn't imagine such a horrible thing; that somebody in the winter who... who walking in one boots to cross the <span class="country">country</span>. </sentence><sentence id="274">But we always felt so very protected; and Grandfather would say, "Look, maybe it happens in <span class="country">Poland</span>, in <span class="country">Czechoslovakia</span>. </sentence><sentence id="275">But <span class="country">Hungary</span> is civilized. </sentence><sentence id="276">We are very good taxpayers. </sentence><sentence id="277">They need us here. </sentence><sentence id="278">It will not happen." </sentence><sentence id="279">And then one day, they say that you pack up twenty-five kilo. </sentence><sentence id="280">What is twenty-five kilo? </sentence><sentence id="281">What do you take? </sentence><sentence id="282">Your pots and pans? </sentence><sentence id="283">Your photographs? </sentence><sentence id="284">Your...food? </sentence><sentence id="285">I remember that day, that Mother send me to somebody, to a neighbor, to get a recipe about uh certain--like <span class="building">toll house</span> cookies, that you just spoke about a few minutes ago--because for the trip that would keep longer. </sentence><sentence id="286">And I thought to myself, "Gee, I don't even like it. </sentence><sentence id="287">Why would we take...? </sentence><sentence id="288">I would never eat that. </sentence><sentence id="289">I mean, it's just so dry." </sentence><sentence id="290">So I went and got the recipe; and so Mother and the help and all, they're baking up these <span class="building">toll house</span> cookies or whatever, they.... It was some some kind of a bread kind of thing (cough) for the journey. </sentence><sentence id="291">Prior to that, there was talks about rumors that maybe they're taking us to <span class="country">Madagascar</span>. </sentence><sentence id="292">And so quickly Mother enrolled to a <span class="building">class</span>, <span class="building">baking class</span>. </sentence><sentence id="293">I don't know from where they...some of the women got the information that they ...that they need to be bakers, or maybe they.... I don't know what was the logic. </sentence><sentence id="294">Anyhow, somebody gave a class on baking...a baking class. </sentence><sentence id="295">And the class was held at the <span class="building">rabbi's house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="296">And I used to transcribe the recipes for Mother, for all this fancy, wonderful bakers...bake...baking goods. </sentence><sentence id="297">So those are the recollections that I have, that we knew that something will happen. </sentence><sentence id="298">But really nobody, nobody had imagination; and then (clearing throat) to...to really believe the extent. </sentence><sentence id="299">Nobody. </sentence><sentence id="300">And then because of Grandfather position, they arranged a special <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> for a couple of people...uh, where the <span class="building">school</span> was, opposite the <span class="building">synagogue</span>. </sentence><sentence id="301">And I had a picture of the <span class="building">synagogue</span>. </sentence><sentence id="302">I will show it a little later. </sentence><sentence id="303">And...and so it was the <span class="building">school-house</span>. </sentence><sentence id="304">So we were in the <span class="building">schoolhouse</span>. </sentence><sentence id="305">Some people in that <span class="region">area</span>...the way they divided the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span>, they build a <span class="dlf">wooden wall</span> one end of the <span class="dlf">street</span> and the other end of the <span class="dlf">street</span>. ( </sentence><sentence id="306">Clearing throat) And it was a (cough) kind of a <span class="dlf">natrow passage</span> with the <span class="building">synagogue</span>, the <span class="building">rabbi's house</span>, the <span class="building">school</span> and uh two more <span class="building">Jewish homes</span>. </sentence><sentence id="307">And um...the Jewish butcher who...who lived behind the...the <span class="building">synagogue</span>. </sentence><sentence id="308">So this was one <span class="populated place">ghetto</span>. </sentence><sentence id="309">The other <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> that they divised was in the <span class="building">brick factory</span>, that the rest of the <span class="populated place">community</span> went. </sentence><sentence id="310">And we had some permissions to go out twice a week to the market-- that was probably ten minutes away--to buy some food in the <span class="building">market</span>. </sentence><sentence id="311">But it wasn't any warm <span class="env feature">water</span>; so when we were there for about a week, I had an idea--I always loved children very much--to gather all the children. </sentence><sentence id="312">There were about ten...ten, twelve children--and take them to the <span class="interior space">ritual bath</span>; because it wasn't any warm water to wash them for "Shabbat." </sentence><sentence id="313">But I didn't dare to ask my mother, because she wouldn't let me and we couldn't go out from the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span> only with permission and she wouldn't let me to speak. </sentence><sentence id="314">I mean, it was not in my position to go and speak to anybody. </sentence><sentence id="315">But the soldier who was watching us was a little bit bored; and I went over to him and said, "Look at the children. </sentence><sentence id="316">Look how dirty they are. </sentence><sentence id="317">What do you think, I will take them out; and I promise you, I promise you I'll bring them back in half an hour. </sentence><sentence id="318">Just wash them in the <span class="interior space">ritual bath</span>." </sentence><sentence id="319">And to my great amazement, he permitted that. </sentence><sentence id="320">And so, without Mother's knowledge, I assembled the children and took them out; and sure enough, we came back. </sentence><sentence id="321">And Mother didn't found out, so I felt very, very lucky; because you can imagine the risk. </sentence><sentence id="322">And then I had another idea. </sentence><sentence id="323">Why don't I take the children into the <span class="dlf">garden</span> of the <span class="building">synagogue</span>--that was just secluded--and I and Edith will be the kindergarten teacher, and we'll teach them songs and play with them. </sentence><sentence id="324">And we did that. </sentence><sentence id="325">So Edith was wonderful, because she right away felt this is a very good idea; and also said, "Let us not say it to Mother, because she will not let us. </sentence><sentence id="326">She will not let us do it, because she will say, "It's too much work;," or, "Something may happen to the children or to you." </sentence><sentence id="327">She will not agree. </sentence><sentence id="328">It's...it's our...." So in a way, we started to be very independent and kind of rebellious, and continued to do that even in the <span class="populated place">ghetto</span>. </sentence><sentence id="329">And...and sure enough, we had the children there. </sentence><sentence id="330">And one day the <span class="dlf">door</span> opens as we are singing and the children are in a circle, and Mother comes in with a bowl of cherries. </sentence><sentence id="331">She went to the <span class="building">market</span>. </sentence><sentence id="332">They let her out, and she brought the bowl of cherries to us. </sentence><sentence id="333">So she knew all the time what we are doing; and those were the most wonderful cherries I ever had. </sentence><sentence id="334">I never, never had anything so wonderful since then. </sentence><sentence id="335">And so, Mother knew Edith and I were the kindergarten teachers of these children; and it was now official that we took care of the children. </sentence><sentence id="336">So one day they say that (cough)...now, that special ...special permission is not granted anymore. </sentence><sentence id="337">We also going over to the <span class="building">brick factory</span>. </sentence><sentence id="338">And we went over, and...for one night, and we slept on the <span class="interior space">floor</span>; and the next morning they took us to the <span class="building">railroad station</span>. </sentence><sentence id="339">Marching through our <span class="populated place">town</span> was like a scene out of the Bible. </sentence><sentence id="340">From ancient time. </sentence><sentence id="341">I could not tell you the humiliation I felt; carrying our <span class="spatial object">baggage</span>, passing our <span class="building">house</span>, looking into our <span class="dlf">window</span>, seeing the people who occupied our <span class="building">house</span> looking at us, and nobody stopping. </sentence><sentence id="342">They marched us to the <span class="dlf">railroad</span>. </sentence><sentence id="343">Nobody says, "Come on. </sentence><sentence id="344">You cannot do it." </sentence><sentence id="345">On a June day, 1944, 20th century men cannot be just taken from their <span class="building">homes</span>, from their <span class="populated place">town</span>, from their <span class="building">house</span>, from their belonging, marched into a <span class="spatial object">cattle train</span>, seventy people. ( </sentence><sentence id="346">Cough) Before they marched us all in, they took the men to a <span class="populated place">labor camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="347">So when Father found out that they're taking the men to a <span class="populated place">labor camp</span>, one morning he got up and said hastily goodbye to us; and said, "Just don't forget who you are," and, "Escape." </sentence><sentence id="348">Those are the two words I remember. </sentence><sentence id="349">And he went up to <span class="populated place">Budapest</span>; and somehow, because he was so sure and so very elegant, nobody stopped him. </sentence><sentence id="350">And he went, like always he would go to his <span class="building">office</span>; and here he got in <span class="populated place">Budapest</span> the Raoul Wallenberg papers. </sentence><sentence id="351">And my father did not go to <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span>; but we, the family, (clearing throat) were in the <span class="spatial object">cattle train</span> in the hottest day with one sanitary bucket for seventy people--seventy to seventy-five people. </sentence><sentence id="352">Our bundled (cough) <span class="spatial object">luggage</span> piled on top of each other; realizing that we have not even <span class="interior space">standing room</span>, or very little. </sentence><sentence id="353">I tried to be close to the <span class="dlf">window</span>, and I remember I was standing all the time; because it was almost just maybe <span class="interior space">room</span> for squatting down where you were standing. </sentence><sentence id="354">But really no sitting place; and Edith next to me. </sentence><sentence id="355">At the <span class="dlf">border</span> from <span class="country">Hungary</span> to <span class="country">Czechoslovakia</span>, they opened the <span class="spatial object">cattle train</span>. </sentence><sentence id="356">And I asked the soldier if he would let us go to the <span class="interior space">bathroom</span>. </sentence><sentence id="357">He said, "There's no <span class="interior space">bathroom</span> here, but you can go behind the <span class="spatial object">train</span>. </sentence><sentence id="358">I remember that it was (clearing throat) very funny feeling to be moment free, and look at the <span class="env feature">sky</span>; but we still did not know where are we going. </sentence><sentence id="359">And Edith keep telling me, "Maybe we just...they will just take us to work. </sentence><sentence id="360">And maybe very soon that we will come back, and...you know. </sentence><sentence id="361">I mean, it will not be so bad." </sentence><sentence id="362">They took us day and night. </sentence><sentence id="363">And at one place, the <span class="spatial object">train</span> suddenly stopped; at <span class="populated place">Vecses</span> (ph)], and we suddenly understood. </sentence><sentence id="364">And I could see through the blinds that some people--three people--jumped down from the <span class="spatial object">train</span>. </sentence><sentence id="365">And, of course, the SS right away after them; and I think they caught two of them with the...and shot them right away. </sentence><sentence id="366">So even if the rest of the <span class="spatial object">train</span> could not see--the <span class="spatial object">cattle train</span> inside--I saw all what happened, because I was so...you couldn't move away from your position. </sentence><sentence id="367">Wherever you was positioned, you was like plastered; and it was a little plank there open, and I could see through and also a little bit through the <span class="dlf">window</span>. </sentence><sentence id="368">And I saw how they dragged this man that they caught with their dog. </sentence><sentence id="369">So I witnessed first time that savage brutality that really was the lead in to <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span>. </sentence><sentence id="370">And when the <span class="spatial object">train</span> stopped again, we arrived. </sentence><sentence id="371">This horrible place. </sentence><sentence id="372">Everybody in strange uniforms. </sentence><sentence id="373">I told Edith, "It looks that they took us to the wrong place. </sentence><sentence id="374">Somehow, somebody will come and apologize. </sentence><sentence id="375">Somebody will say it's totally wrong. </sentence><sentence id="376">You don't belong here. </sentence><sentence id="377">This looks like an <span class="building">insane asylum</span>. </sentence><sentence id="378">People are shaved heads and striped clothes." </sentence><sentence id="379">So since we couldn't comb our hair and Mother was so very "Pedant" [German word meaning a person who is meticulous or precise], Mother said, "Put a handkerchief over your head, you know, and come down from the...from the <span class="spatial object">cattle train</span>." </sentence><sentence id="380">And I had my little brother, who couldn't find his shoe. </sentence><sentence id="381">And I was trying to tell him that he has to be more orderly. </sentence><sentence id="382">A three and a half year old must find his shoe. </sentence><sentence id="383">There was no time to look for anything. </sentence><sentence id="384">Just had to go down, line up in five. </sentence><sentence id="385">And fast, and rapid. </sentence><sentence id="386">And anybody who couldn't go was just hit by the <span class="spatial object">stick</span>. </sentence><sentence id="387">It was like madness. </sentence><sentence id="388">I (cough) lined up; and a tall German soldier came to me and started to, you know, look a minute and then just looked at me and said, "Haben Sie Kinder?" " </sentence><sentence id="389">Do you have children?" </sentence><sentence id="390">I said, "No, I'm barely fifteen!" </sentence><sentence id="391">And smiling and kind of stretching out and being very, um..."I look so grown-up now. </sentence><sentence id="392">Now I really can do what I want to do." </sentence><sentence id="393">Feeling...you know, that feeling of self confidence. </sentence><sentence id="394">And with that motion, with that absolute movement, pointed one direction. </sentence><sentence id="395">And Mother and my little brother to the other direction. </sentence><sentence id="396">And then they asked again: "Children step aside. </sentence><sentence id="397">Children under fifteen step aside." </sentence><sentence id="398">So Edith said, "Step aside. </sentence><sentence id="399">Step aside. </sentence><sentence id="400">They will give you better food. </sentence><sentence id="401">I will work, and you don't have to work. </sentence><sentence id="402">Just step aside." </sentence><sentence id="403">I said, "No, I want to be with you. </sentence><sentence id="404">Let's just stay together." </sentence><sentence id="405">Edith said, "No, just step aside." </sentence><sentence id="406">And I stepped aside. ( </sentence><sentence id="407">Cough) Seconds...everything, seconds. </sentence><sentence id="408">It was like...like in a mirage because first your eye was not even used to the light after this darkness in the <span class="spatial object">cattle train</span>; and then this sunlight...this strong sunlight and the shouting. </sentence><sentence id="409">So you wasn't really pulled together, and you couldn't concentrate and you couldn't understand the order. </sentence><sentence id="410">And I stepped aside, realizing in a few minutes that I don't see Mother. </sentence><sentence id="411">I don't see my brothers. </sentence><sentence id="412">I don't see Edith. </sentence><sentence id="413">I'm totally alone. </sentence><sentence id="414">And I am marching, marching, marching with the people. </sentence><sentence id="415">And they took me to <span class="populated place">C Lager</span> and put me in a <span class="building">barrack</span> after they took away my clothes, shaved my hair and had a <span class="interior space">shower</span> and gave me some kind of other clothes that came from another place at another time. ( </sentence><sentence id="416">Cough) And I was in the <span class="building">C Lager</span> in <span class="interior space">Block 12</span>. </sentence><sentence id="417">Realizing that I'm totally alone. </sentence><sentence id="418">I try to ask the Kapo--the one who was in charge of us-- "Where's my mother, and where's my sister?" </sentence><sentence id="419">And she slapped me, and said, "Those words are not used here. </sentence><sentence id="420">Don't dare to ever mention!" </sentence><sentence id="421">Introduction to <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span>. </sentence><sentence id="422">But the first day, I tried to orient myself. </sentence><sentence id="423">I knew I must find Edith. </sentence><sentence id="424">I must find Edith, no matter what. </sentence><sentence id="425">I tried to ask people, and they say to me, "We don't know. </sentence><sentence id="426">You cannot go close to the <span class="dlf">electric fence</span>, because you will be sucked in and you will be electrocuted. </sentence><sentence id="427">You cannot go out from the <span class="building">barrack</span>; only when they tell you. </sentence><sentence id="428">The orders are very strict. </sentence><sentence id="429">They beat you, if you don't comply. </sentence><sentence id="430">So forget about it. </sentence><sentence id="431">You cannot go nowhere. </sentence><sentence id="432">We are in." </sentence><sentence id="433">I found myself in a <span class="dlf">block</span> with a thousand people, talking all kind of languages. </sentence><sentence id="434">We were given a place--six people slept on a plank of wood, on top of us an other layer. </sentence><sentence id="435">And if one of us had to turn, all the others had to turn; because it was so narrow. </sentence><sentence id="436">One cover, no <span class="spatial object">pillow</span>, no <span class="spatial object">mattress</span>. </sentence><sentence id="437">And they gave us a piece of bread. </sentence><sentence id="438">And I, right away...I...1 was very bad with food. </sentence><sentence id="439">Also, I think this was one of my quarrels with Mother, because she always worried that I'm too skinny, too...too tall, too skinny--that I don't eat well. </sentence><sentence id="440">So I always refused eating. </sentence><sentence id="441">And I...I said, "I will not eat this terrible food here. </sentence><sentence id="442">I just will not." </sentence><sentence id="443">They gave me a piece of margarine, and I gave it away. " </sentence><sentence id="444">I'm not eating this food, and I'm not hungry anyhow." </sentence><sentence id="445">So, I didn't ate the first day. </sentence><sentence id="446">But the most important thing was for me to find out where is Edith; to find out what is...what's the system here. </sentence><sentence id="447">How... who would know? </sentence><sentence id="448">So I went all around, and tried to know what could I find out. </sentence><sentence id="449">Some girl told me that she knows that another group of people were brought the same time into the <span class="building">B Lager</span>--was exactly opposite the <span class="building">C Lager</span>, divided by a <span class="dlf">gate</span>. </sentence><sentence id="450">Two <span class="dlf">gates</span>, actually; the <span class="dlf">gate</span> of the <span class="building">C Lager</span>, and the <span class="dlf">gate</span> of the <span class="building">B Lager</span>. </sentence><sentence id="451">And she knows that some Hungarian girls were brought that day when I arrived to the place. </sentence><sentence id="452">It took me a couple of days to orient; and I gave away my...my bread and my...my margarine again (cough) for somebody to give me a piece of paper, and a pencil to write. </sentence><sentence id="453">And I got a tiny piece of paper; and I saw what happens early, early in the morning before the whistle. </sentence><sentence id="454">That whistle was sounded for us to get out to be counted. ( </sentence><sentence id="455">Cough) They took the food over to the <span class="building">B Lager</span>. </sentence><sentence id="456">A couple of girls were chosen out--a couple of people from other <span class="dlf">blocks</span>--to go and help the...the <span class="spatial object">cans</span> to be taken over to the other <span class="populated place">camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="457">So I knew if I wake up early in the morning, I may have a chance to talk to one of these people who are selected who go over there; and maybe I can send a message over to the other <span class="populated place">camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="458">Well, only...we were young-- fourteen year could think, or fifteen year old could think so simplistically that a piece of paper will reach my sister. </sentence><sentence id="459">And it was such a tiny paper rolled up. </sentence><sentence id="460">The only thing was on it: "T'm in <span class="populated place">C Lager</span>, <span class="interior space">Block 12</span>. </sentence><sentence id="461">Come." </sentence><sentence id="462">And wrote on her name, on the other side: "Edith Lok." </sentence><sentence id="463">So one morning, a sympathetic woman was taking over the can of food. </sentence><sentence id="464">Sympathetic woman was, because there wasn't too much kindness in <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span>. </sentence><sentence id="465">The rules were so strict. </sentence><sentence id="466">People were so harassed. </sentence><sentence id="467">Nobody smiled. </sentence><sentence id="468">Nobody made...did favors, so nobody could do...jeopardize their own life for somebody else's very easily. </sentence><sentence id="469">But some...somebody I asked, "Would you take over this for my sister, this piece of paper?" </sentence><sentence id="470">And that somebody said, "Yes." </sentence><sentence id="471">And that piece of paper went over to the <span class="building">B Lager</span>. </sentence><sentence id="472">After that I would skim the <span class="dlf">walls</span>. </sentence><sentence id="473">And I had to be very careful to come out from the <span class="dlf">block</span> before the whistle blew, because there were guards in two ends of the <span class="dlf">block</span>. </sentence><sentence id="474">You couldn't go out from the <span class="dlf">blocks</span> whenever you wanted, not even to the <span class="interior space">bathroom</span>. </sentence><sentence id="475">So you had to...because I was so skinny, I just could go close to the <span class="dlf">wall</span>. </sentence><sentence id="476">And, of course, it was not permitted to wander around the...the <span class="dlf">yards</span> of <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span>. </sentence><sentence id="477">Nobody could go out. </sentence><sentence id="478">The <span class="spatial object">searchlight</span> was on. </sentence><sentence id="479">You just couldn't do these things, except very special privileged people, maybe. </sentence><sentence id="480">But I was...I figured out how to go by the <span class="dlf">wall</span> where the light would not shine. </sentence><sentence id="481">And so I went to the people who took the can over to the <span class="building">B Lager</span>. </sentence><sentence id="482">And one day...I did it for three days, and one day a piece of paper came back tome. </sentence><sentence id="483">And written on it: "Iam coming. </sentence><sentence id="484">Edith." </sentence><sentence id="485">So miracle happened even in <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span>; because three days later, Edith was one of those who brought the food over. </sentence><sentence id="486">What happened that that woman who took over found a relative there. </sentence><sentence id="487">She wanted to stay in the <span class="building">B Lager</span>, and came (cough) and exchanged with Edith the place. </sentence><sentence id="488">And had to be so swiftly done, so risky; and Edith came and brought over the can of food, or brought back the empty can of food--the empty can (cough) that went over before with the food. </sentence><sentence id="489">And so Edith and I were reunited in <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span>. </sentence><sentence id="490">It was such a miracle. </sentence><sentence id="491">I just knew that I never want to be without her ever, ever. </sentence><sentence id="492">And we cling to each other; but it was very risky because it was started to be selections. </sentence><sentence id="493">And the man who selected me into life, I found out later, was Mengele; because he came often to select. </sentence><sentence id="494">Sometimes he looked at people with small hands. </sentence><sentence id="495">Sometimes he looked for blue-eyed. </sentence><sentence id="496">Sometimes he looked children who were tall. </sentence><sentence id="497">Sometimes children who were short. </sentence><sentence id="498">It was always an upheaval when Mengele came. </sentence><sentence id="499">He was so elegant, and he looked so good; and he would...he would just somehow with his sight terrorize the people and put fear in them. </sentence><sentence id="500">And we had to run naked in front of him, and he would and he would select ..."life"..."death"... (snapping fingers)..."life"..."death." </sentence><sentence id="501">He just with his hand motioned. </sentence><sentence id="502">One day Edith said, "You know, I don't feel good anymore. </sentence><sentence id="503">I don't feel good." </sentence><sentence id="504">And our little friend, Ibi got very delirious from the same bad <span class="spatial object">plank bed</span>; was the <span class="spatial object">plank board</span> that we shared. </sentence><sentence id="505">And Ibi started to talk words I couldn't understand, and was...she had terrible high fever. </sentence><sentence id="506">And anybody who was sick or had any kind of rash or something was selected in the morning out. </sentence><sentence id="507">Sometimes they took them to the <span class="building">infirmary</span>. </sentence><sentence id="508">Sometimes they took them somewhere else. </sentence><sentence id="509">This morning they took <span class="populated place">Ibi</span>. </sentence><sentence id="510">And then the next morning, Edith says, "I...I feel sick. </sentence><sentence id="511">You must let me go. </sentence><sentence id="512">I must go into the <span class="building">infirmary</span>." </sentence><sentence id="513">And I begged her, "Edith, you can't! </sentence><sentence id="514">They will take you!" </sentence><sentence id="515">But somehow they saw her, that she was sick. </sentence><sentence id="516">She couldn't stand up for the counting. </sentence><sentence id="517">And they took her to the <span class="building">infirmary</span>; but by now I was veteran. </sentence><sentence id="518">I knew when is the best time to go away from group, when I can go in and see her. </sentence><sentence id="519">So every morning I would go in to Edith and see her there. </sentence><sentence id="520">See Ibi, my friend, totally in delirium; and see Edith getting higher and higher fever every...every day. ( </sentence><sentence id="521">Sniffling) I went to the woman at the <span class="dlf">gate</span>, and begged her to let me in; and if I would give away my bread she let me in. </sentence><sentence id="522">And she asked me some favors to do. </sentence><sentence id="523">Not so kindly, of course. </sentence><sentence id="524">At least, they were favors. </sentence><sentence id="525">She said, "First take all the dead out. </sentence><sentence id="526">Carry the dead out. </sentence><sentence id="527">Then you can go in." </sentence><sentence id="528">I never saw a dead person before, and now I had to carry the dead people out first in order to see Edith. </sentence><sentence id="529">And I told her...I said, "I'm not afraid. </sentence><sentence id="530">They were just like me yesterday. </sentence><sentence id="531">I'm not afraid." </sentence><sentence id="532">So I carried them. </sentence><sentence id="533">Sometimes I had to carry out the... the <span class="spatial object">bedpans</span>, the...the--they were not <span class="spatial object">bedpans</span> that...they were buckets (cough), filled buckets that spilled over as you walked (cough)--in order to go in to <span class="populated place">Edith</span>. </sentence><sentence id="534">But there were so few who could get into the <span class="building">infirmary</span> that when they saw me coming, people from all the <span class="spatial object">beds</span> pulled at me. " </sentence><sentence id="535">What's happening outside? </sentence><sentence id="536">Tell what's happening!" </sentence><sentence id="537">And I knew that I must tell them stories. </sentence><sentence id="538">I must tell them that the war is almost over, that they just should hold out, that I just heard gun shot...shootings in the middle of the night. </sentence><sentence id="539">Nothing will happen, and they just...just be brave ...hold out, because the war will be soon over. </sentence><sentence id="540">We are going <span class="building">home</span> soon. </sentence><sentence id="541">So those were my stories every morning, before I could see Edith. </sentence><sentence id="542">And one morning when she wasn't any more in that high fever, I said, "Now when I'm taking the dead, you crawl with me. </sentence><sentence id="543">You come after me, because they're taking away. </sentence><sentence id="544"><span class="building">Ibi</span> is already not here. </sentence><sentence id="545">You must come with me out of here." </sentence><sentence id="546">And that's what happened. </sentence><sentence id="547">Edith came out. </sentence><sentence id="548">And here we...we were (cough) together again. </sentence><sentence id="549">Somehow Edith got better, but very weak. </sentence><sentence id="550">And then there were selections again and again and again. </sentence><sentence id="551">One day they said to us, "You will get winter clothes. </sentence><sentence id="552">Go. </sentence><sentence id="553">March up." </sentence><sentence id="554">They selected a bunch of children. </sentence><sentence id="555">This time, the <span class="building">Blockaltester</span> selected the children. </sentence><sentence id="556">And she kind of told us stories; because, of course, the SS wouldn't tell where you are going. </sentence><sentence id="557">But she said, "You will get warm clothes. </sentence><sentence id="558">Don't be afraid. </sentence><sentence id="559">Just go. </sentence><sentence id="560">Just go. </sentence><sentence id="561">Warm clothes." </sentence><sentence id="562">And I said to Edith, "Don't worry. </sentence><sentence id="563">I will come back and bring you some warm clothes. </sentence><sentence id="564">I will just snatch another one extra for you." ( </sentence><sentence id="565">Cough) They took us to a <span class="interior space">shower</span>. ( </sentence><sentence id="566">Cough) They said it will be a disinfection (cough) first; but instead of a <span class="spatial object">shower</span> or disinfection, it was a different place. </sentence><sentence id="567">There was a <span class="dlf">window</span>, and was written outside: "<span class="building">Bathhouse</span>." </sentence><sentence id="568">They took away our clothes. </sentence><sentence id="569">They asked us to put our shoes together, tie our shoe laces together, and put our clothes down; and we will get it back after that they disinfected. </sentence><sentence id="570">But it turned out that the <span class="spatial object">shower</span> did not work, that it was really the gas. </sentence><sentence id="571">And the tragic...(pause)...the realization came only after; when we came back, and this Blockaltester couldn't believe that we are alive. </sentence><sentence id="572">And she looked at us and she started to scream, "How could it happen? </sentence><sentence id="573">Why are you back? </sentence><sentence id="574">You're not supposed to be back." </sentence><sentence id="575">I think that was the only time in <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span> that the gas did not work. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="899">Q: Can you tell us what it was like inside the <span class="interior space">gas chamber</span>? </sentence><sentence id="900">Can you describe what you were in, and </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="903"> a little bit about what you felt? </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="904">A: Of course we didn't know, you see; because they told us that it's a <span class="interior space">shower</span>, that we go for disinfection, that we'll get warm clothes. </sentence><sentence id="905">I checked out this story very carefully later. </sentence><sentence id="906">In <span class="country">America</span>, I met two of my friends who survived from the same <span class="populated place">hometown</span>; and I told them my story about the <span class="interior space">gas chamber</span>. </sentence><sentence id="907">And one of them told, "I was there, too!" </sentence><sentence id="908">So, I know only that it was dark, that the Germans were terribly nervous, that when we came out they were very angry. </sentence><sentence id="909">They throwed some clothes, not our own clothes, back to us. </sentence><sentence id="910">Nothing was, of course, disinfected or warm or anything. </sentence><sentence id="911">We were...we couldn't understand the chaos, their anger, their bewilderness, their shouting--"That never happened before!"--and marching us angrily back to the <span class="building">barrack</span>. </sentence><sentence id="912">But very soon after, we knew where we were. </sentence><sentence id="913">The fabric of <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span> started to slowly break down. </sentence><sentence id="914">The order. </sentence><sentence id="915">The closer the Allies got, more chaos came about. </sentence><sentence id="916">The food was not distributed anymore in time. </sentence><sentence id="917">The...the nervousness of the...the <span class="spatial object">SS</span> was just very felt. </sentence><sentence id="918">I remember Irma Grese. </sentence><sentence id="919">Irma Grese was the SS--the supervisor, the most beautiful woman, like a statue--who would come and count us. </sentence><sentence id="920">She was a pair with Mengele. </sentence><sentence id="921">When the two of them appeared, it was terror and fear. </sentence><sentence id="922">It was... always meant death. </sentence><sentence id="923">And Irma Grese would...her blond hair, beautifully coiffeured, and her beautiful shirt--blue shirt, starched and clean and crisp--and her...and the way she walked, made us even more feel that we are less than animals. </sentence><sentence id="924">We are not human beings anymore. </sentence><sentence id="925">We don't have individuality. </sentence><sentence id="926">We don't have...we don't have nothing left. </sentence><sentence id="927">And the chaos was bigger and bigger. </sentence><sentence id="928">Mengele didn't came anymore, and Irma Grese didn't came, and...came anymore. </sentence><sentence id="929">And they say that selections...and the selections went on and on, and fast. </sentence><sentence id="930">And one night, (sniffle... cough) we were selected. </sentence><sentence id="931">It...I told Edith, "Wherever you will be selected, I will go. </sentence><sentence id="932">I will go." </sentence><sentence id="933">I am...I was younger, and I can't...I could..."I somehow will go after, don't worry." </sentence><sentence id="934">And we found somewhere...somebody gave us a little red bead, tiny red bead. </sentence><sentence id="935">We used to put on our cheeks to look a little healthier; and the red bead went around in that...you know, in that <span class="dlf">circle</span>, so everybody used it a little bit. </sentence><sentence id="936">I don't know how much it helped. </sentence><sentence id="937">We didn't have a <span class="spatial object">mirror</span>. </sentence><sentence id="938">We didn't hardly look. </sentence><sentence id="939">But anyhow, the selection was very swift and very fast. </sentence><sentence id="940">It was an SS woman selecting. </sentence><sentence id="941">And I saw that Edith was selected to one place. </sentence><sentence id="942">And we were so emaciated, so skinny by then. </sentence><sentence id="943">And I had an idea. </sentence><sentence id="944">I said to the German woman, I came in front of her, "It's my birthday today." </sentence><sentence id="945">And she put her hand one way, and then shifted to the other direction. </sentence><sentence id="946">And it was like (snapping fingers)... like a moment; and I was motioned toward Edith. </sentence><sentence id="947">And that selection was a very good selection, because they took us to <span class="populated place">Guben</span> [a subcamp of <span class="populated place">Gro Rosen</span>, located in <span class="region">Prussia</span> (<span class="region">Brandenburg Province</span>)]. </sentence><sentence id="948">We traveled through the night, and arrived to in [<span class="populated place">Darseose</span> (ph); <span class="building">Gros Gastrose</span>?] </sentence><sentence id="949"><span class="populated place">city</span>, <span class="populated place">Guben</span>, where we would work in a <span class="building">munition factory</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="997">Q: Let us pause here. </sentence><sentence id="998">This is a good place to change tapes. </sentence><sentence id="999">Let's do it. </sentence><sentence id="1000">OK. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="1005"> TAPE #2 </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1007">Q: OK. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1009">A: Several months. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1011">Q: You're in...you're in <span class="populated place">Guben</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1013">A: In <span class="populated place">Guben</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1015">Q: Tell us about <span class="populated place">Guben</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1016">What was it like? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1019">A: It was a smaller <span class="populated place">camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1020">It was a <span class="populated place">work camp</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1021">We had to go early in the morning to work in an <span class="building">ammunition factory</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1022">We worked until late at night. </sentence><sentence id="1023">We came back. </sentence><sentence id="1024">We got some food, and could go to...to the <span class="building">barrack</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1025">Uh...I was again with children. </sentence><sentence id="1026">We were again together with children; and the <span class="building">barracks</span> were much smaller. </sentence><sentence id="1027">It was a...it was a better place. </sentence></p><p><sentence id="1028">Anything...you can compare nothing to <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1029">It looked to me that it's a safer place, even if we had to work very hard. </sentence><sentence id="1030">And it was very difficult with the big <span class="spatial object">machines</span>, but it wasn't so harsh. </sentence><sentence id="1031">Except the weather that you had to march to that <span class="building">factory</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1032">But one day close to Christmas times, the SS came in and told us that we have to decorate the <span class="building">barrack</span> for Christmas. </sentence><sentence id="1033">And anyone who will decorate it the best, any <span class="building">barrack</span> who...who will look the best, will get a prize. </sentence><sentence id="1034">So we were children and we wanted the prize so much; but we looked around. </sentence><sentence id="1035">There was no paper, no pencil. </sentence><sentence id="1036">Nothing to decorate with. </sentence><sentence id="1037">I told Edith, "I have a </sentence></p><p><sentence id="1038"> great idea. </sentence><sentence id="1039">I know how we decorate the <span class="building">barrack</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1040">We will choreograph ourselves as candelabra; and when the SS comes in to...to count us, or to see the <span class="building">barrack</span>, we will be the <span class="spatial object">candelabra</span> and we will be the art." </sentence><sentence id="1041">So Edith said, "Well, it's not the best idea. </sentence><sentence id="1042">But I think.... </sentence></p><p><sentence id="1043">We...we will talk to others also." </sentence><sentence id="1044">So we talked to all the others. </sentence><sentence id="1045">And we had one broom to clean out that place; and I took the broom and I gave everybody a piece of the broom to hold up. </sentence><sentence id="1046">And we choreographed ourselves as a living candelabra. </sentence><sentence id="1047">We were the recipient of the award for the decorated <span class="building">barrack</span> in <span class="populated place">Guben</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1048">And guess what was the reward: a tiny little can of snails. </sentence><sentence id="1049">But Edith was so intelligent and so smart; and she said, "You know, this is so wonderful; because only the most enlightened people eat this kind of very elegant food. </sentence><sentence id="1050">I mean, you wouldn't know what this is, of course, but this is just a delicacy. </sentence><sentence id="1051">I tell you what. </sentence></p><p><sentence id="1052">We will not eat it now, but we will eat it on your birthday. </sentence><sentence id="1053">When you have in February your birthday, we will open the <span class="spatial object">can</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1054">The magic can." </sentence></p><p><sentence id="1055"> In February, we were already on the death march. </sentence><sentence id="1056">The death march was going from <span class="populated place">village</span> to <span class="populated place">village</span> in the middle of the winter in <span class="country">Germany</span>, without underwear, without socks, without coat; just a blanket what we had to wrap around us. </sentence><sentence id="1057">Somebody maybe had a coat, but a very few. </sentence><sentence id="1058">And this is how they...we had to march from <span class="populated place">village</span> to <span class="populated place">village</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1059">At night, whenever the cattles....the cattles were taken out from the...from the <span class="building">barn</span>, we were housed there. </sentence><sentence id="1060">And next morning and we would have to march. </sentence><sentence id="1061">Once we arrived to a place. </sentence><sentence id="1062">It was not covered with snow. </sentence><sentence id="1063">It was a <span class="dlf">field</span>, and I remember they let us for a minute sit down. </sentence><sentence id="1064">And the <span class="env feature">grass</span> were eaten up in a matter of seconds. </sentence><sentence id="1065">We were that hungry, that the ...that little <span class="env feature">grass</span> that was </sentence></p><p><sentence id="1066"> : Probably February 1945. </sentence></p><p><sentence id="1067"> under the snow were taken up and eaten up by all of us. </sentence><sentence id="1068">This is how we marched the <span class="region">countryside</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1069">Those who couldn't march were simply shot. </sentence><sentence id="1070">And because now I became already the strongest from the two of us, I had always stories to tell for Edith, to...to give her courage going; but she was really very emaciated. </sentence><sentence id="1071">And one morning she said, "Look, my feet are frozen. </sentence><sentence id="1072">I can't walk anymore. </sentence><sentence id="1073">I just cannot walk anymore. </sentence><sentence id="1074">I can't bear it." </sentence><sentence id="1075">So I told her, "Well, we will just run away." </sentence><sentence id="1076">And so she was laughing with the talking. " </sentence><sentence id="1077">Don't you see the dogs? </sentence><sentence id="1078">Don't you see the...the <span class="spatial object">guns</span>? </sentence><sentence id="1079">Don't you see what happens to those people who just don't walk? </sentence><sentence id="1080">We run away! </sentence><sentence id="1081">Where do you want to run?" </sentence><sentence id="1082">I said, "You will see. </sentence><sentence id="1083">We run away. </sentence><sentence id="1084">Just come, just let's go...until tonight." </sentence><sentence id="1085">And that night we were housed in a <span class="building">barn</span>, into a hay.... How do you call it where they keep the hay for the winter? </sentence><sentence id="1086">And I had an ide </sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1087">A: "This is the place. </sentence><sentence id="1088">This is where we have to run away. </sentence><sentence id="1089">This is where we will..." So I went over to an other friend, and asked if she would want to run away with us. </sentence><sentence id="1090">I didn't talk loud because it was very dangerous. </sentence><sentence id="1091">If I would...if anybody would find out that we planned something, it would give us out; because easily the group could be punished if something...somebody just tried to do anything out of the ordinary. </sentence><sentence id="1092">Every morning that was told us. </sentence><sentence id="1093">If we try anything that it's not permitted, a person will be shot. </sentence><sentence id="1094">So it was very risky to do anything. </sentence><sentence id="1095">But the friend agreed, and I told Edith, "Now let's dig a <span class="dlf">hole</span>, and let's go down to the bottom of the <span class="env feature">hay</span>." </sentence><sentence id="1096">It was about three meters. </sentence><sentence id="1097">It was a very high hay. " </sentence><sentence id="1098">And we just tell in the morning that we feel asleep...we fell into this <span class="dlf">hole</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1099">If they find us, we'll say we didn't heard anything. </sentence><sentence id="1100">We just down into the <span class="env feature">hay</span>." </sentence><sentence id="1101">It had to be done very secretly. </sentence><sentence id="1102">And we just parted the <span class="env feature">hay</span> as fast as we could all together. </sentence><sentence id="1103">First we dig that <span class="dlf">hole</span> into the hay, the bottom of the hay; and three meters above us were the rest of them were sleeping. </sentence><sentence id="1104">And we went close to the plank, and the planks were giving some air. </sentence><sentence id="1105">They were not totally sealed. </sentence><sentence id="1106">You could see also through. </sentence><sentence id="1107">They couldn't see in, but you could see out; and it was tiny little um <span class="interior space">room</span> between...between the wooden planks, you know, that you could get some air in and also look out. </sentence><sentence id="1108">And we had a little bread. </sentence><sentence id="1109">I had a little bread in my... in my clothes, and Edith had a bread and Ibi had some bread, that we somehow managed to save. </sentence><sentence id="1110">And we said, "We...we will just pretend that we fell asleep." </sentence><sentence id="1111">In the morning...of course, we didn't slept all night. </sentence><sentence id="1112">In the morning, we hear them whistling, and whistling, and whistling again. " </sentence><sentence id="1113">There are three missing!" </sentence><sentence id="1114">And we see that they come back, send the dogs back, you know, to sniff; but of course the dogs had no idea what they are sniffing. </sentence><sentence id="1115">We all smell the same. </sentence><sentence id="1116">We all were the same. </sentence><sentence id="1117">We had no identity anymore. </sentence><sentence id="1118">We had no.... And after probably an hour and a half delay and search and whistle and counting, the group went away. </sentence><sentence id="1119">They marched away. </sentence><sentence id="1120">There is no way to explain what it is--freedom-- at that moment, that you don't hear the voices anymore, that you know that they went away, and now you are somehow...your plot worked! </sentence><sentence id="1121">You are free. </sentence><sentence id="1122">So Edith says, "Now we will tell Bible stories. </sentence><sentence id="1123">We will tell all the stories that we remember from the Bible where miracles happened. </sentence><sentence id="1124">Don't you remember the <span class="env feature">Red Sea</span> parting? </sentence><sentence id="1125">It happened to the Jews, you know. </sentence><sentence id="1126">Could it happen to three children? </sentence><sentence id="1127">It was a miracle." </sentence><sentence id="1128">Slowly, slowly we said the "Shabbat" songs, and the shma... everything that came to our mind to make the time pass; and we knew we need time here. </sentence><sentence id="1129">We need time to stay there. </sentence><sentence id="1130">Suddenly, we hear the <span class="dlf">door</span> opening and a German comes in and raking the hay. </sentence><sentence id="1131">But we were so quiet and so under that <span class="env feature">hay</span>, that even if I could feel the boots on...on my head, he couldn't feel us. </sentence><sentence id="1132">See, now we were not breathing even. </sentence><sentence id="1133">And after a while, went away and closed that <span class="building">barn</span> to the <span class="region">natrowest</span>--I mean only just for air to come. </sentence><sentence id="1134">I can't tell you how narrow it was. </sentence><sentence id="1135">I mean, I'm trying to ...to show it now with my hand, probably. </sentence><sentence id="1136">And so night comes, and we are singing our songs for ourselves; and we...now that another day passed, and...and the group is further away, and maybe we are...we are safe. </sentence><sentence id="1137">And then we decide--it was Thursday--"Let's wait until Shabbat; Shabbat...after the three stars, we will come out." </sentence><sentence id="1138">By then the group is far away; and then we will just try our luck. </sentence><sentence id="1139">So now this little bread had to...had to somehow be enough. </sentence><sentence id="1140">And so we doled out morsels, and we told stories for ourself: what was the "Shabbat" dinner like at <span class="building">home</span>? </sentence><sentence id="1141">What are we eating now? </sentence><sentence id="1142">Is now a wonderful soup, and now this wonderful chicken dinner Mother would cook; and I would remind Edith how terrible a child I was, that I didn't wanted to eat. </sentence><sentence id="1143">I never liked the food. </sentence><sentence id="1144">How I will apologize to Mother when I come <span class="building">home</span>! </sentence><sentence id="1145">And we will not tell her how we suffered. </sentence><sentence id="1146">We will never let her know what happened in <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span>, never let her know what happened on this <span class="dlf">road</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1147">She will never know it. </sentence><sentence id="1148">Just one more time together. </sentence><sentence id="1149">So Saturday night, we waited "til the stars came out and we said the <span class="spatial object">Shma</span> three times. </sentence><sentence id="1150">And we went to the <span class="dlf">door</span>, but the <span class="dlf">door</span> was so narrow that barely we could fit through. </sentence><sentence id="1151">We couldn't go front. </sentence><sentence id="1152">We could only go sideways to come out from this <span class="dlf">door</span>, from this little <span class="dlf">opening</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1153">It was already dark outside. </sentence><sentence id="1154">We saw from the distance um...a <span class="building">hut</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1155">And there was light in the <span class="building">hut</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1156">And we knocked on the <span class="dlf">door</span>; and it was a German heavy-set, tall man sitting in front of a <span class="spatial object">desk</span>, with his pipe on the <span class="spatial object">table</span> and a dog next to him. </sentence><sentence id="1157">And Edith, who spoke very beautiful German, said to him, "Please, don't send us away. </sentence><sentence id="1158">We don't need food. </sentence><sentence id="1159">We already know how to live without food, so you don't have to worry about our food. </sentence><sentence id="1160">Just give us any work. </sentence><sentence id="1161">Let us do anything. </sentence><sentence id="1162">The only thing we want is to meet our parents again. </sentence><sentence id="1163">We are three children. </sentence><sentence id="1164">We didn't do anything wrong. </sentence><sentence id="1165">We fell asleep. </sentence><sentence id="1166">We didn't hear the group going. </sentence><sentence id="1167">Let us stay here." </sentence><sentence id="1168">The man looked at us, and at her; then he looked at his dog, and said to the dog, "Get those damn Jews. </sentence><sentence id="1169">Get those Verfluchtener Juden." </sentence><sentence id="1170">We turned around, with our head down, marching out through this open <span class="dlf">yard</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1171">Where are we going? </sentence><sentence id="1172">What are we doing now? ( </sentence><sentence id="1173">sniffling) Edith says, "I see a hand in the dark. </sentence><sentence id="1174">Do you see a hand in the dark? </sentence><sentence id="1175">Somebody motioning from the...from the <span class="building">barn</span>." </sentence><sentence id="1176">We didn't know it is a <span class="building">barn</span>, but on the other end of the <span class="dlf">yard</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1177">It was quite dark, so we couldn't see really; just a silhouette and a hand. </sentence><sentence id="1178">And I said, "Yes, I'm seeing it. </sentence><sentence id="1179">Let's hurry, and let us go there." </sentence><sentence id="1180">And we...it was a <span class="building">barn</span>, and soon we understood that there are some Italian soldiers there who are war refugees. </sentence><sentence id="1181">And they spoke broken German, and we spoke broken German; and we told them that we fell asleep. </sentence><sentence id="1182">We didn't know that the group left, and please help us. </sentence><sentence id="1183">All we want is to meet our parents. </sentence><sentence id="1184">And they said just to stay here, just... next to the cows. </sentence><sentence id="1185">Boy how we envied the cows! </sentence><sentence id="1186">How wonderful existence they had, compared to ours. </sentence><sentence id="1187">So suddenly some warm water arrives, bring us some drink, and then wash our hand and face. </sentence><sentence id="1188">And then we realized that from the hay, as we were digging, we were totally covered with black um dust that accumulated in that hay. </sentence><sentence id="1189">And that we are not recognizable, even as we looked. </sentence><sentence id="1190">Normally we were not recognizable, so even now more. </sentence><sentence id="1191">And somehow one of them spoke a little better German, and say to us that in a little while somebody will come and take us to their <span class="building">barrack</span>, and they will have food for us. </sentence><sentence id="1192">In little while, somebody came and took us. </sentence><sentence id="1193">And you cannot imagine- -no way I will have the language, I will not have the ability to paint it or say it in any other way--what it feels when you look up at the <span class="env feature">sky</span> and you're free, you see the stars shining and you are...you feel free. </sentence><sentence id="1194">I keep looking back if the <span class="spatial object">SS</span> is not following me. </sentence><sentence id="1195">Nobody followed us. </sentence><sentence id="1196">This Italian worker went in the front, and we just went after him until we reached his...the little <span class="building">barrack</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1197">It turned out there were 13 Italians. </sentence><sentence id="1198">And the <span class="spatial object">table</span> was set...three, three bowls, three spoons. </sentence><sentence id="1199">Somebody took out the <span class="spatial object">guitar</span> and started to play music, and we were stunned. </sentence><sentence id="1200">We couldn't believe that this kind of magic can ever happen, not to three children. </sentence><sentence id="1201">I watched their faces if they are not disgusted, the way we looked; because we had sores on our legs. </sentence><sentence id="1202">We had no coverage. </sentence><sentence id="1203">We had no stocking, and the the frost and the sore and the dust and the filth. </sentence><sentence id="1204">But they are singing. </sentence><sentence id="1205">They play the guitar. </sentence><sentence id="1206">They told us to eat, warm food, and they talked very rapidly in Italian. </sentence><sentence id="1207">We didn't understood. </sentence><sentence id="1208">But later, the one who spoke a little German said, "Don't worry. </sentence><sentence id="1209">Tomorrow morning when we go to work, we will do a place for you in the <span class="env feature">forest</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1210">We'll take you there and hide you. </sentence><sentence id="1211">So after you eat, just go back to the...to the <span class="building">barn</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1212">And tomorrow morning you come here again for food, and then just wait here "til we'll pick you up for the <span class="env feature">forest</span>." </sentence><sentence id="1213">You can imagine that we didn't slept all night.(Sigh) The miracle could happen for three children. </sentence><sentence id="1214">And the morning came, and they took us back to their place and they hastily said goodbye, and said, "Don't worry. </sentence><sentence id="1215">We'll come. </sentence><sentence id="1216">We will have the place for you ready by noon. </sentence><sentence id="1217">Just stay here." </sentence><sentence id="1218">And sat there quietly. </sentence><sentence id="1219">Then the <span class="dlf">door</span> opens, and an old SS man comes in and says, "Follow me. ( </sentence><sentence id="1220">Clearing throat.) </sentence><sentence id="1221">Follow me, you Verfluchtener Juden. </sentence><sentence id="1222">You damned Jews." </sentence><sentence id="1223">And the three children and the SS--who looked like somebody's grandfather--walked the <span class="dlf">road</span>, trying to catch up with the group. </sentence><sentence id="1224">Before we...(sniffling) before we reached the other <span class="populated place">village</span>, somehow our silence or something penetrated to him; because he didn't go with us to the end of the <span class="populated place">village</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1225">He said, "I go this far. </sentence><sentence id="1226">Now you go by yourself. </sentence><sentence id="1227">You know, there are dogs on the <span class="dlf">road</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1228">You can't escape because you're marked. </sentence><sentence id="1229">You have a <span class="dlf">red line</span> on your backs of your clothes, so everybody knows who you are. </sentence><sentence id="1230">You're shaved. </sentence><sentence id="1231">You don't have food. </sentence><sentence id="1232">So don't try anything. </sentence><sentence id="1233">Just go to the <span class="building">police station</span>, what is the fifth <span class="building">house</span> after this <span class="dlf">street</span> or something. </sentence><sentence id="1234">And just report. </sentence><sentence id="1235">They're waiting for you." </sentence><sentence id="1236">So Edith says, "Let's try one more time," when he left. </sentence><sentence id="1237">We went into an open <span class="interior space">yard</span>. ( </sentence><sentence id="1238">Clearing throat) And there is...there is a woman coming out, and we said...asked her, "Could we have a little <span class="env feature">water</span>? </sentence><sentence id="1239">We are three children, fall asleep and didn't saw the group." </sentence><sentence id="1240">And she started to scream at us at the top of her lung, "You Verfluchtener Juden! </sentence><sentence id="1241">Get out from here! </sentence><sentence id="1242">I don't want....". </sentence><sentence id="1243">You know, and said all kind of obscenities. " </sentence><sentence id="1244"><span class="populated place">Schwein</span>!" " </sentence><sentence id="1245">Scheiss!" </sentence><sentence id="1246">Anything that came to her mind. </sentence><sentence id="1247">And next to her was a little boy. </sentence><sentence id="1248">The little boy bent down. </sentence><sentence id="1249">There was a dish for the cat with some milk in it. </sentence><sentence id="1250">And the little boy reached down, and wanted to give us the dish of the cat. </sentence><sentence id="1251">And all three of us looked at him; and we turned our head, somehow motioning, "No. </sentence><sentence id="1252">We are still not animals. </sentence><sentence id="1253">We don't take that." </sentence><sentence id="1254">And we turned away, and we went to the <span class="building">police station</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1255">They put us into a <span class="building">jail</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1256">It was...in the <span class="building">police station</span> was where the police slept, and there was the <span class="building">jail</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1257">Says, "Tomorrow morning, early in the morning, I get my horse and <span class="spatial object">buggy</span> and we are taking you after the group. </sentence><sentence id="1258">And they will kill you there, (sniffling) because you tried to escape." </sentence><sentence id="1259">And we begged him, "No. </sentence><sentence id="1260">We just fall asleep, you know. </sentence><sentence id="1261">And we are just three children." </sentence><sentence id="1262">But nothing helped. </sentence><sentence id="1263">In the morning, he got his horse and <span class="spatial object">buggy</span> (clearing throat) and he took us to the <span class="building">railroad station</span> of another <span class="populated place">village</span>, where the group was. </sentence><sentence id="1264">I should enter <span class="spatial object">cattle train</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1265">I mean, there was a big commotion. </sentence><sentence id="1266">The SS tried very harshly to (clearing throat) push everybody into a <span class="spatial object">cattle train</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1267">And the SS woman stopped us, and this SS man reported that they found us in this <span class="interior space">yard</span> and that we say that we fell asleep. </sentence><sentence id="1268">And so Edith went to her and apologized that we fell asleep and we didn't know that the group left; and we didn't heared any commotion, and we were so tired, and we didn't meant anything, and please let us just be alive. </sentence><sentence id="1269">And she says, "No. </sentence><sentence id="1270">I will finish you up in front of all of them. </sentence><sentence id="1271">Let us everybody go up on the <span class="spatial object">cattle train</span>, and we'll finish...finish with you." </sentence><sentence id="1272">And Edith was so brave and such courage; and she said, "But let us just say goodbye to our cousins who didn't know what happened to us. </sentence><sentence id="1273">Could we just please go up in the <span class="spatial object">cattle train</span> and say goodbye? </sentence><sentence id="1274">We come back in a minute." </sentence><sentence id="1275">And the woman permitted, like last...last request. </sentence><sentence id="1276">And so we went up on the <span class="spatial object">cattle train</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1277">And, you see, immediately we went to the end of the <span class="spatial object">cattle train</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1278">The people were on top of each other al...almost. </sentence><sentence id="1279">And somehow, nobody noticed us and didn't know who we are. </sentence><sentence id="1280">We were not recognizable. </sentence><sentence id="1281">And, of course, we didn't had our cousin there. </sentence><sentence id="1282">We didn't know anybody.(Sniffling) And we kind of squatted down in a <span class="interior space">corner</span>; and we hear the <span class="spatial object">SS</span> whis...whistling, and coming up and looking. </sentence><sentence id="1283">But, you know, she couldn't find us; because we didn't have identity anymore. </sentence><sentence id="1284">We looked like bewildered animal, all of us. </sentence><sentence id="1285">And she...we saw that, and the <span class="spatial object">train</span> pulled out. </sentence><sentence id="1286">And (clearing throat) several days later we arrived to <span class="populated place">Bergen-Belsen</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1287">And <span class="populated place">Bergen-Belsen</span> was <span class="region">hell on earth</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1288">Nothing ever in literature could compare to anything what <span class="populated place">Bergen-Belsen</span> was. </sentence><sentence id="1289">When we arrived, the dead were not carried away anymore. </sentence><sentence id="1290">You stepped over them. </sentence><sentence id="1291">You fell over them, if you couldn't walk. </sentence><sentence id="1292">There were agonizing people, begging for <span class="env feature">water</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1293">They were felling...falling into planks that they were not pulled together in the <span class="building">barracks</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1294">They were crying. </sentence><sentence id="1295">They were begging. </sentence><sentence id="1296">It was...it was hell. </sentence><sentence id="1297">It was <span class="region">hell</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1298">Day and night. </sentence><sentence id="1299">You couldn't escape the crying. </sentence><sentence id="1300">You couldn't had escaped the praying. </sentence><sentence id="1301">You couldn't escape the mercy, that...it was a chant. </sentence><sentence id="1302">The chant of the dead. </sentence><sentence id="1303">It was <span class="region">hell</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1304">At night, we had a Kapo who...who was insane. </sentence><sentence id="1305">Who was a beautiful woman who looked like a <span class="spatial object">sculpture</span>, a goddess. </sentence><sentence id="1306">Her blond hair was very short but kind of curly. </sentence><sentence id="1307">Her blue eyes. </sentence><sentence id="1308">And she would come out in the middle of the night and [help this (ph)]. </sentence><sentence id="1309">And she would step on the people, because she couldn't sleep from the chanting. </sentence><sentence id="1310">And the chant...she went insane. </sentence><sentence id="1311">She went totally insane, and she would just hit whomever she could hit to silence the people. </sentence><sentence id="1312">And that repeated every night. </sentence><sentence id="1313">And one night she was stepping on my hand; and I couldn't move because if she would hear a sound, I would be the target. </sentence><sentence id="1314">So she was insane. </sentence><sentence id="1315">So there's no way to re-enact <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1316">Nobody should ever.... But there's no way to tell anything about <span class="populated place">Bergen-Belsen</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1317">So when liberation came, we were already dazed. </sentence><sentence id="1318">We were...1 say to Edith, "What is it means: liberation? </sentence><sentence id="1319">I don't understand that word. </sentence><sentence id="1320">What's liberation? </sentence><sentence id="1321">What does it mean?" </sentence><sentence id="1322">She said, "Free. </sentence><sentence id="1323">Repeat it: "free." </sentence><sentence id="1324">We are free." </sentence><sentence id="1325">So I told her, "But then I have to go and find us clean clothes. </sentence><sentence id="1326">We are full with lice. </sentence><sentence id="1327">We are full with with this vermin all around our bodies. </sentence><sentence id="1328">I will go and find you clothes. </sentence><sentence id="1329">Stay here. </sentence><sentence id="1330">I will bring you something." </sentence><sentence id="1331">And I wandered out from the <span class="populated place">camp</span>; and I wandered, and I could barely walk. </sentence><sentence id="1332">It was...I...I just had to sit down, and had...we were so emaciated and there was incredible chaos. </sentence><sentence id="1333">And they gave us some food. </sentence><sentence id="1334">The...the...the...the Allies. </sentence><sentence id="1335">They gave us some canned hash. </sentence><sentence id="1336">And I told Edith, "Eat my portion. </sentence><sentence id="1337">You need the strength." </sentence><sentence id="1338">And Edith ate. </sentence><sentence id="1339">I don't know how much. </sentence><sentence id="1340">She couldn't eat much too either. </sentence><sentence id="1341">But she became violently, violently ill. </sentence><sentence id="1342">So my attempt to find a place...to find clothes (sniffling) was not so very successful. </sentence><sentence id="1343">But I found a <span class="interior space">storage place</span> where the German uniforms were; and I...I found a lot of boots. </sentence><sentence id="1344">So I tried to put a pair of boots on my feet. </sentence><sentence id="1345">And I couldn't walk. </sentence><sentence id="1346">It just was too heavy. </sentence><sentence id="1347">And then I tried to carry a pair of boots, and I couldn't do both. </sentence><sentence id="1348">I couldn't balance. </sentence><sentence id="1349">So I took off my boots, went back to these wooden shoes that I had; and I tried to carry the boots for Edith. </sentence><sentence id="1350">And immediately somebody snatched away the boots. </sentence><sentence id="1351">So they never...1 could never take it to Edith.(Sniffling) But Edith got violently ill, and she begged me to take her to a <span class="building">hospital</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1352">And I said, "I can't. </sentence><sentence id="1353">I can't. </sentence><sentence id="1354">We will be again apart. </sentence><sentence id="1355">We will be again divided. </sentence><sentence id="1356">I can't. </sentence><sentence id="1357">I don't dare to. </sentence><sentence id="1358">I don't." </sentence><sentence id="1359">And I begged her maybe, maybe tomorrow. </sentence><sentence id="1360">Maybe some help will come." </sentence><sentence id="1361">But she...she really insisted. </sentence><sentence id="1362">So I dragged her. </sentence><sentence id="1363">And before there, I tried to find some potato; because somebody told me if I cook her some potato, the potato peel will stop her diarrhea. </sentence><sentence id="1364">So I tried to do that, but of course nothing helped. </sentence><sentence id="1365">And then I dragged her to an <span class="building">infirmary</span>, and I tried to pretend that I am sick, too; and tried to help there to take away the <span class="spatial object">bed pans</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1366">And very soon an English soldier came and says, "You must leave the <span class="building">infirmary</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1367">It's only for the very ill. </sentence><sentence id="1368">You can't be here." </sentence><sentence id="1369">I tried...I didn't know English, so I tried somehow in German to tell her, tell him, "Please let me stay with my sister. </sentence><sentence id="1370">Please don't take me away." </sentence><sentence id="1371">He asked me what <span class="building">barrack</span> I am; and I told the number of the <span class="building">barrack</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1372">And he put me on a...on a <span class="spatial object">jeep</span>, took...took me away. </sentence><sentence id="1373">So next morning I came back. </sentence><sentence id="1374">And you must understand that we couldn't walk anymore. </sentence><sentence id="1375">I mean, to going back was like you...you're climbed the biggest <span class="env feature">mountain</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1376">I mean, I went back and just then Edith was put into an <span class="spatial object">ambulance</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1377">And I said to her, "I'm going with you wherever they take you. </sentence><sentence id="1378">I don't leave you now." </sentence><sentence id="1379">And we spoke a few words; and English soldier recognized me, the same one who took me back, says, "Here you are again!" </sentence><sentence id="1380">Took me down, and I pretended that I faint that he should take me with Edith. </sentence><sentence id="1381">I fell down on the <span class="interior space">floor</span>; and he went in and he got me a little something to drink, some kind of liquid. </sentence><sentence id="1382">And...and revived me so to speak, and put me back on the <span class="spatial object">jeep</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1383">And took me back again to the <span class="building">barrack</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1384">And I never saw Edith again. </sentence><sentence id="1385">Three days later, they evacuated all <span class="populated place">Bergen-Belsen</span>; and I went to place. </sentence><sentence id="1386">And I could by then barely walk; and I remember that I crawled up the <span class="interior space">second floor</span>, because they said, "There is an <span class="building">office</span> there where they have the dead and the...and the live list." </sentence><sentence id="1387">And person there sitting said, "She's not on the Dead List, and she's not on the Live List." </sentence><sentence id="1388">All I remember that, that I collapsed after that. </sentence><sentence id="1389">And they took me to a <span class="building">hospital</span>, and I didn't wanted to eat or drink anything. </sentence><sentence id="1390">And one girl from the other <span class="interior space">room</span> came and said, "You must, because otherwise you will never find your sister. </sentence><sentence id="1391">You must drink. </sentence><sentence id="1392">You must eat." </sentence><sentence id="1393">And a Belgian doctor came the next day, and in front of my <span class="spatial object">bed</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1394">And he said, "She's still young." </sentence><sentence id="1395">And they selected me to go to <span class="country">Sweden</span>; and I was among the children they transferred who went to <span class="country">Sweden</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1396">When I hear that they want to take me away, | didn't wanted to go; because I wanted to find Edith. </sentence><sentence id="1397">But this wonderful girl who tried to feed me said, "You will find her, because probably they took her to <span class="country">Sweden</span>, too. </sentence><sentence id="1398">You will find her in <span class="country">Sweden</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1399">Just go." </sentence><sentence id="1400">And, of course, when I arrived to <span class="country">Sweden</span>--wherever I went for years after, for thirty years after it, I still looked for Edith. </sentence><sentence id="1401">I never found Edith. </sentence><sentence id="1402">Never found Edith. </sentence><sentence id="1403">So this is my story of...of the two of us. ( </sentence><sentence id="1404">Sigh) I made the painting...that is a photograph of a woman who had a tee shirt, on one of the reunions, that said, "Have you seen my sister?" </sentence><sentence id="1405">And I got that photograph, and l incorporated into that painting, and.... Just like she, (sigh) I'm still looking. ( </sentence><sentence id="1406">Pause - Sigh) </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1740">Q: I'm sorry. </sentence><sentence id="1741">Take your time. </sentence><sentence id="1742">That's OK. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1746">A: I don't think I can do it anymore. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1748">Q: Can you tell us about living in <span class="country">Sweden</span>? </sentence><sentence id="1749">No? </sentence><sentence id="1750">Do you need to stop for a little while? </sentence><sentence id="1751">OK. </sentence><sentence id="1752">Let's stop tape. </sentence><sentence id="1753">We'll just breathe for a minute. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="1760"> TECHNICAL CONVERSATION </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1762">Q: OK. </sentence><sentence id="1763">You're in <span class="country">Sweden</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1764">Do you want to tell us what happened there? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1768">A: I was in <span class="country">Sweden</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1769">And (cough) one day the chief doctor came to my <span class="spatial object">bed</span>, and said, "If I will bring you the best news of your life, will you promise me you will be alright?" </sentence><sentence id="1770">I was so weak, he didn't wanted to tell me any kind of news. </sentence><sentence id="1771">And I promised him. </sentence><sentence id="1772">And says, "I have a telegram from <span class="populated place">Tangier</span>, where your relatives lived, that your father is alive in <span class="country">Hungary</span>." </sentence><sentence id="1773">I was so weak that he was..he came by himself; because he was so worried that the good news may just finish me up. </sentence><sentence id="1774">But it was such an incredible news, because, you know, that it had to be shared with all the girls in the <span class="building">hospital</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1775">With...with everyone, because so few of...of us had anybody who came back who was alive. </sentence><sentence id="1776">So in a minute the whole <span class="interior space">floor</span> knew that my father is alive; and I ran around, you know. </sentence><sentence id="1777">I got up from the <span class="spatial object">bed</span>, and I was...I felt like I'm healthy. </sentence><sentence id="1778">I...1 can walk. </sentence><sentence id="1779">And the doctor said, "Just take it easy. </sentence><sentence id="1780">Don't...don't...don't dance. </sentence><sentence id="1781">Don't run around. </sentence><sentence id="1782">Don't..." It...it was just unbelievable that somebody from the family is alive. </sentence><sentence id="1783">It was such an incredible mixed feeling, because actually the death--you didn't accept it totally. </sentence><sentence id="1784">You always hoped that Mother is alive. </sentence><sentence id="1785">You always hoped that (cough) you will find your sister. </sentence><sentence id="1786">You always hoped that...that somehow something about your brother. </sentence><sentence id="1787">I mean, forever played games with your brain. </sentence><sentence id="1788">But when something so concrete as a telegram came... So I started to get first a letter from <span class="populated place">Tangier</span>...from the relative, Mrs. [Renee] Reichman. </sentence><sentence id="1789">And...and then later, from my father. </sentence><sentence id="1790">And so Father wrote that he would like I should come back to <span class="country">Hungary</span> as soon as the doctor lets me go. </sentence><sentence id="1791">And I could barely wait to...to...for that moment. </sentence><sentence id="1792">The Swedish people were incredible. </sentence><sentence id="1793">They were so gentle and good to us. </sentence><sentence id="1794">I felt like I... woke up in...in <span class="dlf">heaven</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1795">After this brutality, after...after this horror, after this inhumanity, to come to a civilized <span class="country">country</span>, that three hundred years didn't have any war. </sentence><sentence id="1796">Who...who.... Volunteers come into the <span class="building">hospital</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1797">They bring us a magazine, and we should show them from the magazine-- because we couldn't speak Swedish--what food we want to eat. </sentence><sentence id="1798">I mean, after <span class="populated place">Bergen-Belsen</span>, after <span class="populated place">Auschwitz</span>, what incredible people! </sentence><sentence id="1799">It was like angels gliding. </sentence><sentence id="1800">They would organize concerts. </sentence><sentence id="1801">I would hear music. </sentence><sentence id="1802">They didn't know how to make our lives whole again. </sentence><sentence id="1803">Such magical, wonderful people. </sentence><sentence id="1804">This family connected--the family that sent the telegram connected also us to a family in <span class="populated place">London</span>, who had a representative in <span class="country">Sweden</span> who wasn't Jewish. </sentence><sentence id="1805">And this representative got a telegram that there is a, that there is a...this little girl here in one of the <span class="building">hospitals</span>; and please look him up, it's part of the family. </sentence><sentence id="1806">And this wonderful Swede, instead of sending his secretary or sending a letter, he got in his <span class="spatial object">car</span> and he went to the <span class="building">hospital</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1807">But you know, we were so sick that...that we were taken from one <span class="populated place">city</span> to the other. </sentence><sentence id="1808">They couldn't figure out; we had every illness there was. </sentence><sentence id="1809">So they always sorted out us--children with tuberculosis, people with tuberculosis went to one place. </sentence><sentence id="1810">So when he arrived to this <span class="building">hospital</span>, I was already in another <span class="building">hospital</span>; and he kind of repeated two, three times. </sentence><sentence id="1811">When he catched up with me, he said, "You know, ..." Um, the nurse came in and said that there's somebody from my family here. </sentence><sentence id="1812">I said, "I don't have family. </sentence><sentence id="1813">I have nobody." </sentence><sentence id="1814">She said, "No, you have to come out. </sentence><sentence id="1815">You...you.... Somebody is waiting for you outside." </sentence><sentence id="1816">And I was so...still so frightened; to be taken out from the group meant total insecurity, you know. </sentence><sentence id="1817">You are sick...only if you are in a group, if you are nobody.... And so anyhow, the nurse coaxed me out; and she said, "This is this gentleman, and he says he's related to you." </sentence><sentence id="1818">And he explained that that he's not related, but he's the representative of my relatives from <span class="populated place">London</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1819">I guess that nurse and that...that the uncle in <span class="populated place">London</span> asked this gentleman to look after me. </sentence><sentence id="1820">And this gentleman--who was so humane, so incredible, magnificent, wasn't a Jewish man--instead of sending letters or trying through the <span class="spatial object">telephone</span>, he went and and he...he found me. </sentence><sentence id="1821">And he said, "Look, I have a daughter just like you, your age. </sentence><sentence id="1822">You come to my <span class="building">house</span> and get to know her." </sentence><sentence id="1823">And I said, "No, I'm still sick. </sentence><sentence id="1824">The doctor won't let me go." </sentence><sentence id="1825">And he says, "Just come in then for a weekend. </sentence><sentence id="1826">Get to know Mary. </sentence><sentence id="1827">She's a very good girl." </sentence><sentence id="1828">And I thanked him very much; but I didn't wanted to go. </sentence><sentence id="1829">And it took me a little while, after that he left, to see what a gentle, wonderful man this was, who came and with such gentleness tried to coax me back to life. </sentence><sentence id="1830">And... and then when the doctor permitted, and when I was a certain weight and...and I could really go, the doctor permitted and I visited them. </sentence><sentence id="1831">And I met Mary. </sentence><sentence id="1832">And it was so magical this summer, because I was in <span class="populated place">London</span> and I met Mary again and we recalled this unbelievable time. </sentence><sentence id="1833">How his [her] father brought me back and reconnected me with everything that was humane in the most gentle, most wonderful fashion. </sentence><sentence id="1834">And I told Mary the story of the <span class="spatial object">hat</span>... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1903">Q: Look at me if you can. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1905">A: I met...I was several times in <span class="populated place">Stockholm</span> after that, and this wonderful Mr. [Gustaf] Haggberg-- Haggberg was his name--would take me to the <span class="building">opera</span>, would take me to the most beautiful <span class="building">restaurant</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1906">Would show me the word "freedom," how civilized man behaved, show me how to be without prejudiced. </sentence><sentence id="1907">And I made a vow: "If I ever grow up, I will be like Mr. Haggberg. </sentence><sentence id="1908">I will not hate. </sentence><sentence id="1909">I will not be prejudiced. </sentence><sentence id="1910">I will learn to love the world again, and all people." </sentence><sentence id="1911">And one day after a correspondence with my father, we decided that I should come back to <span class="country">Hungary</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1912">And I came to <span class="populated place">Stockholm</span> to say goodbye to Mr. Haggberg. </sentence><sentence id="1913">And Mr. Haggberg looks at me and says, "Alice, do you have a hat?" </sentence><sentence id="1914">You know, I don't have a <span class="country">country</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1915">I don't have a name. </sentence><sentence id="1916">I am nobody. </sentence><sentence id="1917">I...my hair barely grows up. </sentence><sentence id="1918">I have one dress. " </sentence><sentence id="1919">A <span class="spatial object">hat</span>? </sentence><sentence id="1920">No, I don't have a hat." </sentence><sentence id="1921">He said, "Alice, you cannot travel through <span class="country">Europe</span> without a hat! </sentence><sentence id="1922">You have to have a <span class="spatial object">hat</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1923">You are a young lady now." </sentence><sentence id="1924">And he rings the bell and rings Vera, the secretary; comes in and says, "Vera, you must go right now and buy a hat for Alice. </sentence><sentence id="1925">She cannot travel through <span class="country">Europe</span> without a hat!" </sentence><sentence id="1926">And so we went into a place, the first place, the first little "chapeau" that came--a brown little "chapeau" that came to my hand--I put it on and...and bashfully said, "That's perfect. </sentence><sentence id="1927">Thank you." </sentence><sentence id="1928">And that little hat was my dignity. </sentence><sentence id="1929">He gave back my dignity. </sentence><sentence id="1930">And I went back to <span class="country">Hungary</span> and I met my father. </sentence><sentence id="1931">And was an incredible reunion on the <span class="spatial object">train</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1932">And very soon he told me that he really is getting married the next week. </sentence><sentence id="1933">And it was for me a very difficult...difficult moment, to realize that Mother is really not coming back, that Father's life must go on the way he wants it to, to go on. </sentence><sentence id="1934">And that perhaps I shouldn't come back. </sentence><sentence id="1935">It was hard. </sentence><sentence id="1936">And I decided very soon after that I should really not live in <span class="country">Hungary</span>, that I really should go to <span class="country">Israel</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1937">It was no "<span class="building">aliyah</span>." </sentence><sentence id="1938">It was no possibility. </sentence><sentence id="1939">And I went up to one of the the group. </sentence><sentence id="1940">It was <span class="building">B'nai Akiva</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1941">And I told them that I must go, illegal or what; and anyway, I must go. </sentence><sentence id="1942">I must go. </sentence><sentence id="1943">I must go away from here, to <span class="country">Israel</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1944">And they say that there is a <span class="building">Brichah</span>, there is a group of people that will go in a certain time; but I have to have a lot of documents. </sentence><sentence id="1945">I have to have a lot of...because they are totally illegal, and they go from <span class="country">Yugoslavia</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1946">And that they are...that this group in <span class="populated place">Budapest</span> is not responsible if we will arrive to <span class="country">Israel</span> or no. </sentence><sentence id="1947">But that's my only chance. </sentence><sentence id="1948">So I had to find all the documents; and they were very difficult, because Father.... I didn't want that Father should know yet that I am going to <span class="country">Israel</span>, because he wouldn't hear of it. </sentence><sentence id="1949">He just wouldn't hear of it. ( </sentence><sentence id="1950">Cough) And I know that I have no future, that I must go away; that if...if there is anything left for me in life, then it's not...not there anymore. </sentence><sentence id="1951">I must find my way. ( </sentence><sentence id="1952">Cough) And I went up to this group of people; and I told them very strongly that if they don't help me to <span class="country">Israel</span>, then I don't want to live. </sentence><sentence id="1953">I just don't want to live. </sentence><sentence id="1954">And the young man who sat at the <span class="spatial object">desk</span> was very sweet and very smart. </sentence><sentence id="1955">He says, "Don't do anything drastic things here. </sentence><sentence id="1956">At least not here." </sentence><sentence id="1957">So he was smiling, and he says, "I will help you. </sentence><sentence id="1958">I will help you. </sentence><sentence id="1959">But it will be very difficult for you, because your father has to sign. </sentence><sentence id="1960">You are a minor yet, and he has to sign for you. </sentence><sentence id="1961">And we have to make you a false passport. </sentence><sentence id="1962">So you have to get all the papers." </sentence><sentence id="1963">So I have to...had to go to all the <span class="building">offices</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1964">And one day two men came up and told my father to sign; and Father was still under the spell of the Germans, in fear. </sentence><sentence id="1965">He signed before he read what he's signing; and he was signing that I can go on "<span class="spatial object">aliyah</span>" illegally. </sentence><sentence id="1966">And, of course, when he realized he was very, very sad; and said, "Look, you can't leave me. </sentence><sentence id="1967">You are my only child." </sentence><sentence id="1968">And I told him that he had to start his life the way he started, and I must now chart my life the way I have to. </sentence><sentence id="1969">And my future is in <span class="country">Israel</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1970">And he must...he must let me go. </sentence><sentence id="1971">And so very tearfully we went in to the notary; and he was crying, and I was crying, and he signed it. </sentence><sentence id="1972">And I got a telegram in the middle of the night that eight o'clock in the morning I should be at the <span class="building">railroad station</span> and just find so and so. </sentence><sentence id="1973">And I got on the <span class="spatial object">train</span>; and a mother was running after me and says, "Please take care of my child." </sentence><sentence id="1974">You know, I was always tall and always looked older than what I was. </sentence><sentence id="1975">And so I said, "Your child? </sentence><sentence id="1976">Where is your child?" </sentence><sentence id="1977">And here was a girl. " </sentence><sentence id="1978">My gosh, she's older than I am! </sentence><sentence id="1979">She's eighteen years old. </sentence><sentence id="1980">I'm not eighteen. </sentence><sentence id="1981">She should take care of me, maybe." </sentence><sentence id="1982">And the mother said, "No, no. </sentence><sentence id="1983">You just take care of her." </sentence><sentence id="1984">I said, "OK, I do." </sentence><sentence id="1985">And so we got up on that on the <span class="spatial object">train</span>, and was a lot of commotion. </sentence><sentence id="1986">You know, it was a lot of people who went with; they're supposed to be together, but they were not together. </sentence><sentence id="1987">And we got to <span class="country">Yugoslavia</span>, where one of...a tiny baby died on the <span class="spatial object">train</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1988">So we had to bury the baby under the wheels of the <span class="spatial object">train</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1989">And her death already was such a tragic mood that all of us who were there...we just...we just couldn't talk. </sentence><sentence id="1990">In the middle of the night we boarded <span class="spatial object">The Exodus</span>; and we got on the the <span class="spatial object">boat</span> in <span class="populated place">Bakar</span> [a small <span class="dlf">port</span> five miles east of <span class="populated place">Rijeka</span>]. </sentence><sentence id="1991">And it was terribly scary because it...several kilometers we had to walk "til the <span class="spatial object">boat</span>, in the dark of the night. </sentence><sentence id="1992">Just a <span class="spatial object">lamp</span> pointed the direction, a <span class="spatial object">hand lamp</span>, because we were illegal. </sentence><sentence id="1993">It was still under...<span class="country">Israel</span> was not...<span class="country">Israel</span> was still not <span class="country">Israel</span> that time. </sentence><sentence id="1994">And we got on the <span class="spatial object">boat</span>, and we were right away selected out to...to...to guard the <span class="spatial object">boat</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1995">And, you know, selection was always scary; but this time I really wanted it...to guard the <span class="spatial object">boat</span>. </sentence><sentence id="1996">I had no idea what to do. </sentence><sentence id="1997">And they gave me a gun, and I said, "Did you ever had a gun before? </sentence><sentence id="1998">I don't even know what to do with this!" </sentence><sentence id="1999">I says, "Never before. </sentence><sentence id="2000">And we are guarding the <span class="spatial object">boat</span>, you and I?" </sentence><sentence id="2001">I couldn't believe. </sentence><sentence id="2002">But <span class="building">Exodus</span> was a tiny little <span class="spatial object">boat</span>, and still in terrible danger of being attacked. </sentence><sentence id="2003">You know, The <span class="building">Exodus</span> went several times back and forth to <span class="country">Yugoslavia</span>. ( </sentence><sentence id="2004">Cough) And so the second day on the <span class="spatial object">boat</span>, somebody tells me, "There is a girl who went crazy on the <span class="spatial object">boat</span>, and cries that she will be thrown into the, the <span class="env feature">ocean</span>." </sentence><sentence id="2005">So I went to see the girl; and this is the girl whose mother told me to take care of her. </sentence><sentence id="2006">So you can imagine what I felt. </sentence><sentence id="2007">So I said, "There must be a doctor on this <span class="spatial object">boat</span>." </sentence><sentence id="2008">I went up to the doctor; and again, in German, trying to explain to him that there's a girl whom I'm in charge of who has to be taken care because...because she's sick. </sentence><sentence id="2009">And um doctor said, "You don't understand. </sentence><sentence id="2010">This is a <span class="spatial object">boat</span> that will be attacked very soon on the open <span class="env feature">sea</span>, and we have no <span class="interior space">room</span> for anybody who is insane." </sentence><sentence id="2011">And shortly...the, the...the <span class="building">infirmary</span> was a little <span class="interior space">cubicle</span>, you know; maybe for four or five people. </sentence><sentence id="2012">Says, "There's no <span class="interior space">room</span> here for anybody." </sentence><sentence id="2013">So I have to keep this...and I said, "No, I give the promise for this mother, and I will do.... I will not leave until you promise me to take care of this girl." </sentence><sentence id="2014">He says, "Well, if you bring her up...." After, you know, it was negotiating back and forth. </sentence><sentence id="2015">After a while, he said, "If you bring her up, I will take care of her. </sentence><sentence id="2016">Let's see what I can do." </sentence><sentence id="2017">And I pulled that poor girl screaming, screaming and hollering--she was sure I will throw her into the <span class="env feature">ocean</span>, you know--she didn't wanted to go. </sentence><sentence id="2018">And we went up; and I told the doctor that I'd stay with her until until we arrived to <span class="populated place">Haifa</span>. " </sentence><sentence id="2019">I will be her private nurse. </sentence><sentence id="2020">You don't have to go worry. </sentence><sentence id="2021">Give me the medicine, and I will stay." </sentence><sentence id="2022">And that's what I did. </sentence><sentence id="2023">And then after a while, the captain of <span class="building">The Exodus</span> came; and he looked at me. </sentence><sentence id="2024">He says, "I hear that you are giving orders on my <span class="spatial object">boat</span>." </sentence><sentence id="2025">I said, "No, I'm not giving orders. </sentence><sentence id="2026">But this was a mother...I, I made a vow to this mother that I would take care of her child. </sentence><sentence id="2027">And here it is, and I'm staying with her until we arrive. </sentence><sentence id="2028">So nobody has to worry. </sentence><sentence id="2029">I'm taking care of her. </sentence><sentence id="2030">I'm here from morning to evening. </sentence><sentence id="2031">I just go down to sleep. </sentence><sentence id="2032">I'm with her all the time, so you don't worry." </sentence><sentence id="2033">So the captain went away, and he was very nice. </sentence><sentence id="2034">Every day he came back, and every day he told me a little story about The Exodus. </sentence><sentence id="2035">So I found out that this was the youngest captain ever. </sentence><sentence id="2036">And that...that the...the run before us, the English came up to look for him, for the captain; and he was so young and he was so very good humored. </sentence><sentence id="2037">And he put on the captain's uh hat, and he said, "Do you think maybe I am the captain? </sentence><sentence id="2038">I don't know...we don't know where the captain is. </sentence><sentence id="2039">We didn't saw the captain. </sentence><sentence id="2040">Maybe I am the captain." </sentence><sentence id="2041">You know? </sentence><sentence id="2042">So the English kind of dismissed him, and never thought that he could be the captain of this <span class="spatial object">boat</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2043">And they never found him; and he told me this story. </sentence><sentence id="2044">And so.... </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2189">Q: Time is...time is a little short. </sentence><sentence id="2190">The tape is.... Tell us about arrival. </sentence><sentence id="2191">Yeah. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2195">A: OK. </sentence><sentence id="2196">So anyhow, we arrived to <span class="country">Israel</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2197">And you can imagine to arrive into the <span class="region">promised land</span>, and how are the feelings; but here I have this girl, and what will happen to her now? </sentence><sentence id="2198">And the captain said to me, "Now leave your <span class="spatial object">luggage</span> here. </sentence><sentence id="2199">You go down. </sentence><sentence id="2200">We have an <span class="spatial object">ambulance</span> waiting. </sentence><sentence id="2201">You and the girl go. </sentence><sentence id="2202">And she's going to a <span class="building">hospital</span>, and you take her to a <span class="building">hospital</span> there." </sentence><sentence id="2203">And I'm arriving to <span class="populated place">Haifa</span> and that...with the shrieking <span class="spatial object">ambulance</span> up on the top of <span class="env feature">Mt. Carmel</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2204">And this doctor asked me, "What's her name?" </sentence><sentence id="2205">And I have no name. </sentence><sentence id="2206">I don't know her name. </sentence><sentence id="2207">I don't know who she is. </sentence><sentence id="2208">And I thought this will be one of those stories like my sister, who got lost...no name. </sentence><sentence id="2209">And I just broke down and I cried; and I had no idea what I will do, because I couldn't give any information about the girl. </sentence><sentence id="2210">But then a couple of weeks later in front of a <span class="building">movie house</span>, I met the girl reunited with her family. </sentence><sentence id="2211">And this is probably the most beautiful story I can tell how we took care of our refugees. </sentence><sentence id="2212">Because a girl who didn't had any name, who didn't belonged, here was in <span class="country">Israel</span> to be reunited--found family and united with her family. </sentence><sentence id="2213">So <span class="country">Israel</span> gave her, everyone an incredible hope, an incredible future; and because of <span class="country">Israel</span> there never will be another Holocaust. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2234">Q: We can just stop and change tapes. </sentence><sentence id="2235">We're almost done. </sentence><sentence id="2236">I just want to ask about the art. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="2240"> TAPE #3 </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2242">Q: OK. </sentence><sentence id="2243">Now. </sentence><sentence id="2244">Alice, how long roughly were you in <span class="country">Israel</span> before you came to the <span class="country">States</span>? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2248">A: I was about two...two years. </sentence><sentence id="2249">Actually, what I wanted to do very much, when I met my wonderful husband--wonderful, wonderful man--who understood totally what was, and who encouraged me and gave me really the freedom to live again. </sentence><sentence id="2250">And I told him I must share one experience with him, and that's <span class="country">Sweden</span>; that we have to go back to <span class="country">Sweden</span>, that he must know what my ideal is in life. </sentence><sentence id="2251">What kind of person I want to be, how I want my children should be. </sentence><sentence id="2252">The tolerance, the goodness of the Swedish people--what I experienced as a child. </sentence><sentence id="2253">And he was wonderful, and he accepted a position in <span class="country">Sweden</span>; and he kept telling me on the <span class="spatial object">airplane</span>, "But don't be disappointed, because you were a child there. </sentence><sentence id="2254">You now are a grown person. </sentence><sentence id="2255">And people are people. </sentence><sentence id="2256">They're not angels." </sentence><sentence id="2257">But, you know, we arrived in <span class="country">Sweden</span> and I right away called this wonderful gentleman, this Mr. Haggberg's <span class="building">office</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2258">And Vera, the secretary, answered; and she said, "You know, Mr. Haggberg is not here. </sentence><sentence id="2259">He lives already in <span class="populated place">London</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2260">But he's exactly here for the dentist, and I phone him right now to the dentist". </sentence><sentence id="2261">And do you know that in ten minutes, Mr. Haggberg was in the <span class="building">hotel</span> where we were, embracing us and meeting my husband. </sentence><sentence id="2262">And so I knew that I am back with this wonderful <span class="country">Sweden</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2263">It was not a dream. </sentence><sentence id="2264">It was a reality. </sentence><sentence id="2265">And we will...we were instrumental helping the <span class="populated place">settlement</span> of the refugees who came like I came into <span class="country">Sweden</span>, who remained there. </sentence><sentence id="2266">And...and uh my husband opened <span class="building">Hebrew schools</span> in ...in small <span class="populated place">cities</span>; and it was hard work because we were newly-wed, and he would travel every day to another <span class="populated place">city</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2267">And I would open <span class="building">Sunday schools</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2268">And...but then our...the miracle happened that I had a son. </sentence><sentence id="2269">And can you imagine, where I got life several years before, I gave life now to this wonderful little boy. </sentence><sentence id="2270">I mean, there was nobody like this...first-born, and in this total ...in this beautiful <span class="country">country</span>, where the people are really angels. </sentence><sentence id="2271">And...and when Ronnie was three years old, we decided that...or we go back to <span class="country">Israel</span>, or we'll come for a year to <span class="country">America</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2272">And we decided to come for a year to <span class="country">America</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2273">We had enough money just to stay a year, for Moshe to make his doctorate here. </sentence><sentence id="2274">And ...and for me to...for us just to see <span class="country">America</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2275">And we were so enchanted by what American Jewry did, and how...my husband said, "This is like the other <span class="dlf">wing</span> of the eagle. </sentence><sentence id="2276"><span class="country">Israel</span> and <span class="country">America</span> together balance the <span class="region">Jewish world</span>." </sentence><sentence id="2277">The <span class="region">Jewish world</span> that was so terribly, terribly maimed...the European Jewry; now the American Jewry and the Israeli Jewry together balance it...and restore it. </sentence><sentence id="2278">And we were more and more...became involved in the creativity part of the Jewish life. </sentence><sentence id="2279">And Rabbi [Wolf] Kellman, blessed memory, insisted that Moshe should get a <span class="spatial object">pulpit</span> as soon as we learned the language. </sentence><sentence id="2280">He said to me, "You know, there are only ten people here in my <span class="building">rabbinat</span> who is...who are like your husband, and we need him here." </sentence><sentence id="2281">And so this is how we entered this wonderful <span class="country">country</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2282">And since that time, I don't think we've stopped with our creative lives. </sentence><sentence id="2283">We have now two sons, who are rabbis. </sentence><sentence id="2284">I have a little girl, Rina. </sentence><sentence id="2285">And Rina for me...when Rina was bor, Ronnie was ten year old. </sentence><sentence id="2286">And Ronnie said, "My mother has a sister," accidentally. </sentence><sentence id="2287">Instead of saying, "My mother has a daughter," Ronnie said, "My mother has a sister." </sentence><sentence id="2288">And Rina came to me as a gift. </sentence><sentence id="2289">As a gift that was very difficult, because Rina is special. </sentence><sentence id="2290">Rina is Downs Syndrome child. </sentence><sentence id="2291">And I thought that I cannot bear that pain; but Rina today is twenty-seven year old. </sentence><sentence id="2292">She's so beautiful. </sentence><sentence id="2293">Her soul is like anybody's soul--pure, clean and gorgeous. </sentence><sentence id="2294">Rina is a gift from God. </sentence><sentence id="2295">And in a way, she is Edith. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2345">Q: Alice, what do you carry with you the most, do you think, from the Holocaust? </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2347">A: That I didn't found Edith. ( </sentence><sentence id="2348">Sigh; pause) Not my personal suffering, and not my own...what....And no hatred. </sentence><sentence id="2349">But the spirit of those who didn't survived. </sentence><sentence id="2350">And I always ask what incredible people we are...instead of cursing God and man, we create a new <span class="country">country</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2351">We give birth to children, and we raise them Jewish and we affirm them to life, to faith. </sentence><sentence id="2352">What incredible people we are. </sentence><sentence id="2353">And how incredible our teachings are. </sentence><sentence id="2354">And I became an artist, and my art is about this period of life; because in the "70's I went back to <span class="country">Hungary</span>, and I saw that nobody mourned us. </sentence><sentence id="2355">Nobody missed us. </sentence><sentence id="2356">Nobody cared that we disappeared. </sentence><sentence id="2357">And the pain of that realization. </sentence><sentence id="2358">That there was no <span class="spatial object">monument</span> in our <span class="populated place">town</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2359">That the children disappeared in...in the daylight in a June day, and never came back. </sentence><sentence id="2360">Nobody remembered them. </sentence><sentence id="2361">And I felt that my art has to be dedicated to those who did not come...came back. ( </sentence><sentence id="2362">Sniffling) And to an incredible man, Raoul Wallenburg, who saved a hundred thousand Jews--including my father--and shows to all of us what one man can do. </sentence><sentence id="2363">From one side, look at this incredible devastation that Hitler brought to the world. </sentence><sentence id="2364">Forty years later, and we still have the scars, the pains; and we are maimed forever. </sentence><sentence id="2365">And on the other hand, a Raoul Wallenburg--a man who is not Jewish, who is a Swede, who was an aristocrat, who didn't have to be in Hungary-- but he was a man, a total human being; developed his soul, not only his mind. </sentence><sentence id="2366">And he knew how to stand up; and he stood up, just with a piece of paper, with a certificate...with a...with a absolutely not valid certificate, against the German machinery of death. </sentence><sentence id="2367">Against the evil. </sentence><sentence id="2368">And look what a message for the next generation. </sentence><sentence id="2369">Everybody can choose what they want to do in life with themselves, go right or go left. </sentence><sentence id="2370">And the Torah says, "Choose life." </sentence><sentence id="2371">But the important thing is what life you're choosing. </sentence><sentence id="2372">Not only the self-gratification, not only the self. </sentence><sentence id="2373">But choose life. </sentence><sentence id="2374">Look at the life of the others, and help and stand up where...where unrighteousness and evil is done. </sentence><sentence id="2375">And stand up and be counted. </sentence><sentence id="2376">We all have the ability, just like Raoul Wallenburg. </sentence><sentence id="2377">This tape is for my grandchildren; but for all the grandchildren, for all the children whom I will not meet. </sentence><sentence id="2378">If they're looking for heroes, they have to look into their souls and found the hero in themselves. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2412">Q: Thank you. </sentence><sentence id="2413">There is no more to be said. </sentence><sentence id="2414">Thank you. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="2418"> PHOTOGRAPHS (1)Sarvar synogogue, circa 1940. </sentence><sentence id="2419">This was an <span class="building">orthodox synogogue</span>, and the pride of the <span class="populated place">community</span>. </sentence><sentence id="2420">It was still standing in 1976, but had been converted to a <span class="building">wood working shop</span>. </sentence></p></dialogue> |
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