input: Summarize the whole meeting.
  Project Manager: Okay, welcome everyone to our next meeting. I'm busy writing and busy leading the meeting, but um I've prepared a little presentation once again um or at least an agenda I think uh the biggest part of the presentation will be uh on your side. Um we are here at the conceptual design meeting, which is hereby opened. Um once again I will try to uh write some minutes which I just from the previous meeting uh placed inside our project folder, which was quite some typing. Um today we once again have uh three presentations, if I'm right, and after that we will take a decision on the remote control concepts. And just as the last time we have forty minutes to accomplish that. Okay, well
  Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}
  Project Manager: I'd say let's start with the first presentation.
  Marketing:'Kay.
  Project Manager: Um in the same order as last time?
  Industrial Designer: W sure.
  User Interface: Mm. Alright.
  Project Manager: Okay. Well, take it away.
  User Interface: {vocalsound}
  Industrial Designer: {gap} {vocalsound} Okay uh welcome you all.
  User Interface: {vocalsound}
  Marketing: {vocalsound}
  Industrial Designer: Components design, um {vocalsound} uh first of all uh I would like to uh uh accommodate some of those uh things I uh uh {disfmarker} elaborate some of the things I did. I I elaborated on the concept. What should be um uh said about uh the components, uh its properties and what kind of materials should we use to uh to make uh one of those r remote controls. Uh well first of all I've uh d subtracted some of the components that is that are used uh are w w um {vocalsound} you know from what uh the remote control's formed. Uh first of all, the case, the case, the surrounding of the of the the remote control. {vocalsound} I would like to uh give you an idea of uh how I thought about.
  Marketing: Don't destroy my giraffe.
  Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Giraffe's gone now.
  Marketing: {vocalsound}
  User Interface: {vocalsound}
  Industrial Designer: Okay um the case was is made from rubber, I suppose. There's one of the {disfmarker} because when you use a remote control a lot of people uh will uh will uh drop their remote control
  Marketing: Drop it.
  User Interface: Hmm.
  Industrial Designer: and they break uh becau the uh titanium was also an option. But uh it's a very expensive material. Uh rubber is, I think, uh the best suitable uh material uh to use uh for our uh for our remote control. Um it's poss it's also possible to uh create fancy colours with rubber. Uh rubber l makes it easy to uh to to {disfmarker} it lets lets itself colour. Uh titanium uh you have to paint it and with that uh it's possible to scratch it or uh yeah make it ugly. Uh rubber uh the total uh piece of rubber that's sor uh that's that's used uh to make the case is uh the same colour, so if you scratch it it's still the same colour, perhaps uh it's a little bit damaged. But it's a very strong material. Um {vocalsound} I h I had an idea single covered uh curved, sorry, single curved.
  User Interface: {vocalsound}
  Industrial Designer: Uh so it's t two dimensional. I think it's uh it's best to draw oh
  User Interface: {vocalsound} It's a colour. {vocalsound}
  Industrial Designer: green.
  Marketing: {vocalsound} Bright colour. Fancy colour. Forward.
  Industrial Designer: Uh {disfmarker} New. Blank. Okay.
  Marketing: You have to go t
  Industrial Designer: Let's make it uh black. Okay. I thought of an idea like this. Oh {gap} that. {vocalsound} Um delete. Blank. Okay. So it also looks nice when it's on your table.
  User Interface: {gap}
  Industrial Designer: So you get uh it doesn't lay flat down on the table, but it's c it's stands.
  Marketing: Oh it's a side view.
  Industrial Designer: Side view yes it's side view so uh I I'm not technically good at th three D_ modelling,
  User Interface: {vocalsound}
  Industrial Designer: but.
  Marketing: {vocalsound}
  Industrial Designer: Um uh it's just an idea I had so it's uh it's very uh so its also looks nice when it's on the table. Um the graphical user interface and the buttons, uh we also thought about that already. Uh I thought about uh the L_C_D_ touch screen, which is uh is easy to clean too. One of the great uh advantages of the L_C_D_ screen you just use some {gap} or uh another uh cleaning uh uh cl some cleaning stuff.
  User Interface: {vocalsound}
  Industrial Designer: And um it should be made of strong plastic and it should be bright. Well I already uh s uh explained some properties of that material and I think uh well we also we almost concluded about that uh this should uh be uh our uh button component.
  Marketing: True.
  Industrial Designer: So uh uh that's all about uh the buttons. Uh the batteries, uh we also thought about that already, uh will be chargeable with uh uh an option for a mount station so you can uh put the uh {vocalsound} the remote control in a mount station so its charges itself up instead of uh plugging it in or something like that. Questions, {gap}?
  User Interface: No. {vocalsound}
  Marketing: No no no no no. Just looking.
  Industrial Designer: And they should be long lasting, not uh not be empty uh in about uh two minutes or uh thirty minutes or forty minutes of use. And next step is the chip uh th the component that's uh makes or transmits the signal to the television. Uh there was an option to use s a rather simple chip but I think uh because uh of our uh highly uh requiring uh requirements, there should be an advanced chip in it
  User Interface: {vocalsound}
  Industrial Designer: with uh also the ability to uh facilitate speaker speech recognition uh which unfortunately is still in a test phase, so uh there should be some more uh investigation on that side. Uh my personal preferences uh I also overheard in the last meeting that there shou we should use uh our own business colours. That was correct, wasn't it?
  Project Manager: Mm-hmm.
  Industrial Designer: Okay. I think they are rather boring for um for use with rubber.
  User Interface: {vocalsound}
  Project Manager: Well, business colours I thought it was the the slogan and uh the corporate image, so yeah, it needs colour,
  Industrial Designer: Okay they should be m sh they should be in mind,
  Project Manager: but I don't think you have to make the entire thing in the corporate colour. {vocalsound}
  Industrial Designer: wasn't it? Okay so it d it doesn't says uh to uh have the slogan?
  Project Manager: It must be recognisable.
  Industrial Designer: Okay okay. Well that's possible of course.
  User Interface: You can put the R_ and R_. {vocalsound}
  Industrial Designer: We could make a little R_ and R_ {gap} on the top of the machine. Uh so they are {vocalsound} pretty boring, I suggest, because just the availability with rubber to make fantastic colours uh and also in a lot of possible colours, so it's possible to make very uh fancy uh remote controls which peopl uh who people in which people will find they're uh interesting. And uh will buy uh {vocalsound} them faster when they look at the same old grey or black uh colours. Uh s as I said uh before rubber is uh is impossible to damage severely imp instead of uh of course you can break it when you you when you break it in s for example with a pair of scissors or something like that, but i if you drop it it's not uh broken uh right away s instead of using uh plastic, hard plastic or uh titanium. And I personally liked uh the single curved uh remote control, because it yeah it makes sense.
  User Interface: {vocalsound}
  Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Okay. Well that's all about my uh my findings.
  User Interface: Alright.
  Project Manager: Okay, thank you.
  User Interface: I will go next.
  Marketing: Mm mm mm. Next.
  User Interface: {gap}
  Industrial Designer: {gap}
  User Interface: Alright so
  Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}
  User Interface: I thought a little bit about the interface. Uh how it should look. And uh {vocalsound} uh we uh determined that will not be no buttons, but only an L_C_D_ screen, so I had to uh look on that. And the design is therefore based on what we just uh uh thought of. Uh first there are some new findings and new technology for speech recognition. And this is that uh um uh uh you you ask you give a question through through the device and it answers you. And they already uh put this in an in a coffee maker. And so that it you say uh good morning, uh coffee maker, and it says t says to you back good morning Joe or what's your name.
  Industrial Designer: Mm.
  User Interface: This uh and there's an easy way to uh program that uh you say record into the device into the speaker and then you say the question and three seconds later you say the answer and then when you say the question it gives you the answer. Um perhaps it's useful,
  Industrial Designer: Mm.
  Project Manager: Mm.
  User Interface: perhaps for because people um lose the remote,
  Industrial Designer: Mm.
  User Interface: they can yell uh remote where are you and {gap} calls or something.
  Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}
  Marketing: It's true.
  User Interface: And perhaps we could uh implement that.
  Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {vocalsound}
  User Interface: And then I have to go out of the presentation because I tried to make some kind of a a idea of how it should look like
  Industrial Designer: Oh my God. {vocalsound} {vocalsound}
  User Interface: but I can't draw, so uh don't {vocalsound} make too much of it {vocalsound}. I tried to uh the L_C_D_ screen I tried to sort of to draw {gap}. I thought uh at least uh the icon for the volume. I don't know if there is an icon for the program, but
  Industrial Designer: Not just a P_.
  User Interface: yeah.
  Marketing: P_ yeah, just a P_.
  User Interface: So uh
  Industrial Designer: . . . {gap}
  User Interface: and then the buttons above and uh below
  Marketing: {vocalsound}
  User Interface: the and the and the mute button also recognisable as an icon. Um.
  Marketing: Where's where's the button for two {gap}?
  User Interface: I forgot that one. {vocalsound} I thought I forgot something,
  Industrial Designer: {gap}
  Marketing: Okay.
  User Interface: but uh {vocalsound}.
  Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}
  User Interface: And uh and uh the numbers, that should be a bit larger I think it's not really on scale and and so forth.
  Industrial Designer: Ah.
  Marketing: Doesn't matter.
  User Interface: Um an options button. And I thought the the button for teletext apar uh apart because it's not really options, I think. It's uh options is the settings of the remote and of the T_V_ and that kind of uh thing.
  Industrial Designer: Mm-hmm.
  Marketing: No.
  User Interface: So could call it settings or something.
  Industrial Designer: Yep.
  User Interface: But this is a bit uh how I thought it. And uh the L_C_D_ uh somewhere on the remote. Perhaps we could be more curvy the remote perhaps should, so that it's better in your hand or something uh.
  Industrial Designer: Oh okay,
  User Interface: But uh and and uh a microph microphone for the speech uh recognition if we want to implement that.
  Industrial Designer: yeah.
  User Interface: Uh and then uh if you press the op options button, now we have an example of and then you should get the other options with what what you could do and that you could do with something like this this.
  Industrial Designer: Oh yeah, {gap}.
  User Interface: And uh it's also uh I thought think we discussed uh earlier that uh older people don't really want to use uh these extra settings. And older people a also don't really want to use this uh th this kind of option menus. So they want to u use one button and then something happens, and not choose with uh this kind of uh {disfmarker} And you could put in a an a really s little scrolling device on the side of your uh remote,
  Project Manager: Mm-hmm.
  User Interface: so you could scroll scroll uh across these uh things.
  Industrial Designer: Mm. Okay.
  User Interface: That's an option. And that was my uh finding dinge.
  Project Manager: Thanks.
  User Interface: Yeah.
  Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay. {vocalsound}
  Project Manager: Now our third
  Industrial Designer: Go Danny, go Danny. {vocalsound}
  Project Manager: team member with his presentation.
  User Interface: {vocalsound}
  Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}
  Marketing: {vocalsound} Okay, I'm going to tell you something about a trend watching. The trends from the past years, what the people like, what the youngsters like, what the elderly people liked about shapes, colours, material and stuff.'Kay. The method I used was {disfmarker} Like I told I watched the trends from the past years about colours, shapes, material they wanted uh from elderly and young people. So we can keep that in mind for designing f uh the device itself. Findings I made. The most important thing people liked last year was that the remote control should be look look fancy. The second important thing that w should be if inv in innov innovative, okay, like the L_C_D_ screen that's {vocalsound} quite innovative so that should be great meeting for this. And the third thing is it should be easy to use. I think with only one menu, four button, channel, volume, it should also be enough for easy to use. The personal preferences for the young people, they liked fruity colours like uh banana yellow, uh strawberry red and stuff.
  Industrial Designer: Fruity? {vocalsound}
  User Interface: {vocalsound} Grass green.
  Industrial Designer: Fruity. {vocalsound}
  Marketing: Yeah. Like that. The round shapes, and soft material m materials like the rubber.
  Industrial Designer: Mm. Okay.
  Marketing: It should be soft uh i it should feeling spongy or s Sponge Bob like things.
  User Interface: {vocalsound} Let's build it into a sponge.
  Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} {gap} {vocalsound}
  Marketing: Th Elderly people like au colours which y are being seen in autumn like um woods um dark brown, red, deep reds and stuff. They liked square shapes with round edges. And hard materials like wood, um titanium. They those kind of materials they liked. This is a bit like the young peoples like the fruity colours, innovative, all the colours you see, the blue, the red, the white, the yellow, that stuff. And then I th I I personally thought the front side of the shape should be something for the youngsters like like
  Project Manager: Oh y {vocalsound}
  Marketing: this or something. It's it's a bit like a banana. And the colour should be yellow, or something.
  Industrial Designer: {gap}
  Marketing: And for the elderly people just plain old. Because we decided to have two kind of remotes, two designs, or was it two colours?
  User Interface: It was one remote, I think,
  Marketing: Different colours, yeah.
  User Interface: different colours.
  Marketing: We should decide whether it's going to be with round shapes. I think like my colleague, you said, is that's e better, or for the elderly people something like like the iPod or something, with round squares. Simple but
  User Interface: {gap}
  Marketing: easy to use.
  Industrial Designer: Mm.
  Marketing: {vocalsound} So that's it.
  Project Manager: So for the older people, a more traditional uh form.
  Industrial Designer: Okay.
  Marketing: That is my {disfmarker} Yeah, like the older o older colours I can maybe {disfmarker}
  User Interface: You could you could uh change the colours, that was also the idea. I don't know which shape you should should take,
  Marketing: Yeah.
  User Interface: but.
  Marketing: {vocalsound} Colours th the elderly people {disfmarker}
  Project Manager: Yeah, I guess changing colours will be easier than changing uh
  User Interface: Yeah.
  Industrial Designer: Changing just the shape of the uh remote control?
  Project Manager: the shape of it.
  User Interface: Perhaps you could find something in the middle. Round but square. {vocalsound}
  Industrial Designer: Yeah, s
  Project Manager: {gap}
  Industrial Designer: round corners, but s but square, yeah.
  Project Manager: But maybe then both groups won't buy it.
  User Interface: Yeah.
  Industrial Designer: Yeah.
  Project Manager: {vocalsound}
  User Interface: Uh i i if you do it uh uh square, with round corners but a little uh in the middle of it uh i Do you know what I mean?
  Industrial Designer: Yeah I know what you mean, kind of like a {gap}. {vocalsound}
  User Interface: {gap} wait, like {vocalsound} like this {vocalsound} uh a bit.
  Industrial Designer: Yeah.
  User Interface: So it's a bit square, but it's also a bit uh round.
  Industrial Designer: Kinda like a beer glass. {vocalsound} Yeah.
  User Interface: So but then {disfmarker}
  Industrial Designer: I know what you mean.
  User Interface: Same sides. {vocalsound} But that's uh {disfmarker}
  Industrial Designer: It's also easy to to have {vocalsound} to to put in your hand.
  User Interface: Yeah but that's also how other remotes are shaped, so that's uh {disfmarker} But perhaps that's a good thing,
  Industrial Designer: Yeah.
  User Interface: so that's easy to use. People know the {disfmarker}
  Industrial Designer: Will recognise that's as a remote control.
  User Interface: Yeah.
  Marketing: Uh {disfmarker} Look something like that {gap}. Autumn colours like red, brown.
  Industrial Designer: Uh when I saw your d Oh.
  Marketing: They liked the wood a lot.
  Industrial Designer: Huh.
  Project Manager: Mm-hmm.
  User Interface: Yeah.
  Marketing: So maybe we could give it like wooden loo look look or something in that colour.
  User Interface: Yeah.
  Industrial Designer: Yeah, kinda like old cars, uh {disfmarker}
  Marketing: And a bit bit old school style renaissance, medieval kind of things.
  User Interface: Yeah. {vocalsound}
  Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}
  User Interface: {vocalsound} {vocalsound} Swords. {vocalsound}
  Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Let's put it all together.
  Marketing: Those kind of {disfmarker} Yeah, those kind of things. So you see the big difference between the young people? Fresh, exciting.
  User Interface: Yeah.
  Industrial Designer: {gap}
  Marketing: And the old people, old and boring.
  User Interface: But that's easily to do with the colour, I think.
  Project Manager: {vocalsound}
  Marketing: So {disfmarker} Sorry?
  User Interface: That's easy to do with the colours, I think.
  Marketing: Yeah I think it's it's easier to do in colour than in shape.
  User Interface: Yeah.
  Project Manager: Yeah we think so too.
  Industrial Designer: Uh.
  Marketing: Because otherwise we have to {gap} get different shapes, and colour {gap} way easier than yeah the shapes. In material yeah rubber, rubber is, like I said, young people like more soft materials and spongy ones
  Industrial Designer: {vocalsound}
  Marketing: and the old people like {vocalsound} plain wood.
  User Interface: Yeah.
  Industrial Designer: Yeah.
  Marketing: So we have to decide if we're going to use real hard rubber, or soft rubber. Or something something between that.
  User Interface: Yeah think uh {disfmarker} Also in between. {vocalsound}
  Industrial Designer: Soft rubber.
  Marketing: Yeah {gap} soft rubber
  Industrial Designer: {gap}
  Marketing: which you can you can feel in it.
  Industrial Designer: Yeah I know what you {disfmarker} Um.
  User Interface: I don't think you should be able to mould it,
  Marketing: Or {disfmarker}
  User Interface: but {vocalsound} {disfmarker}
  Industrial Designer: It should shouldn't be {gap}.
  Marketing: No. Or or wh what's something harder. No no no but but you have to like like like a a eraser or something. That's the bit you can press it in,
  User Interface: Yeah.
  Marketing: or something harder.
  Industrial Designer: Uh.
  User Interface: Bit like this kind of rubber. This uh {disfmarker}
  Marketing: Yeah, something like this, yeah.
  User Interface: But it's quite hard, this.
  Marketing: Yeah it's quite hard but you can press it in.
  User Interface: Yeah.
  Marketing: It's feels kind s spongy.
  User Interface: {vocalsound}
  Industrial Designer: Spongy.
  Project Manager: Hmm.
  Marketing: Something. {vocalsound}
  User Interface: {vocalsound} I don't think it's rubber.
  Marketing: No. N n n
  Project Manager: So we need a spongy feeling. {vocalsound}
  User Interface: Uh did you have something about uh {disfmarker}
  Marketing: {vocalsound} Are you going to invite Sponge Bob, maybe he can {disfmarker}
  Industrial Designer: Yeah.
  Project Manager: {vocalsound}
  User Interface: So we should first decide about shape, I think.
  Industrial Designer: Ding ding.
  User Interface: Which uh {disfmarker}
  Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah I think that's the better thing to do. {vocalsound}
  User Interface: Then you can fit the L_C_D_ screen in it,
  Marketing: {gap}
  User Interface: and can decide uh.
  Industrial Designer: Um I also s uh can't help but notice {vocalsound} that you uh used an {disfmarker} you had a remote control {gap}
  User Interface: {vocalsound}
  Industrial Designer: and the L_C_D_ screen was uh rather small. Um.
  Marketing: Yeah
  User Interface: Yeah
  Marketing: w I think that L_C_D_ screen should be like {disfmarker}
  User Interface: it it's supposed to be bit s bit s bit
  Industrial Designer: . . . This was your size,
  User Interface: Yeah.
  Industrial Designer: but I think it should be larger.
  Marketing: Yeah three quarter of the of the {disfmarker}
  Industrial Designer: Yeah, three quarters. So uh so you don't have to put your {disfmarker} {vocalsound} oh.
  Marketing: Yeah the buttons won't get that small when the L_C_D_ screen is {disfmarker}
  Industrial Designer: Uh new, blank. So uh when you get {vocalsound} this uh {disfmarker}
  User Interface: {vocalsound}
  Marketing: {gap}
  User Interface: Ooh {vocalsound}
  Industrial Designer: Uh kinda like this.
  Marketing: Mm-hmm.
  User Interface: Yeah.
  Industrial Designer: Or should it be larger?
  Marketing: Larger I think.
  Industrial Designer: Larger? Because you want to put your hands {disfmarker}
  User Interface: But if you pu
  Marketing: Yeah
  User Interface: Now you can put your hand there and then you won't touch the screen.
  Industrial Designer: You want
  Marketing: becau because you have {disfmarker}
  User Interface: Perhaps that's best.
  Industrial Designer: Yeah.
  Marketing: Yeah okay, true, true, true true.
  Industrial Designer: Your thumb here.
  User Interface: {vocalsound} But not on the screen because {vocalsound} {disfmarker} Yeah
  Industrial Designer: Yeah.
  User Interface: that's uh that's an idea.
  Marketing: Yeah.
  User Interface: Looks a bit like a Game Boy now. {vocalsound}
  Industrial Designer: Because when you put your f Yeah but if yo if you make the the L_C_D_ screen as large as the remote control itself, uh you'll {vocalsound} you'll always get some {disfmarker}
  User Interface: You always touch it,
  Industrial Designer: You {disfmarker}
  User Interface: yeah.
  Industrial Designer: Yeah.
  Marketing: Yeah yeah yeah yeah.
  Industrial Designer: Going to be very greasy and stuff.
  Marketing: But it won't get that small because you have how much? Nine ten eleven twelve thirteen fourteen fifteen buttons on the screen.
  User Interface: Yeah.
  Marketing: One to zero, the two digit, {disfmarker}
  Industrial Designer: Yeah you don't want it too small. How yeah how large {disfmarker}
  Marketing: You have to you have to {disfmarker} Because some fat people with d thick fingers will press three buttons at same time.
  Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Yeah they have thick fingers {gap}. But if you wanna make it in international, Japanese uh people got uh rather small hands
  Marketing: Yeah true,
  Industrial Designer: and we got these large {disfmarker} {vocalsound}
  Marketing: but {disfmarker} Yeah, we have we have the zoom option, right?
  Industrial Designer: Zoom opt Ah yeah of course, yeah. You can make it larger to to uh to uh with accompanying uh greater fields to push the button.
  Marketing: Yeah.
  Project Manager: Yeah. And we won't include a a pen, or something to point,
  Marketing: Yeah.
  Project Manager: hey, we we want to do it with our fingers,
  Marketing: No.
  Project Manager: right?
  Industrial Designer: Your fingers, yeah.
  Marketing: Yeah.
  Project Manager: Yeah.
  User Interface: Y you could include a pen
  Industrial Designer: You don't want uh {disfmarker}
  Marketing: Yeah.
  Industrial Designer: Because if you lose the pen uh if you lose the pen uh you can't use {disfmarker}
  Marketing: Use a pen You you c you can lose the pen.
  Project Manager: Yeah but I think people want to use a remote with with their fingers because th they're used to that
  Marketing: Yeah {gap} the fingers, yeah.
  User Interface: Yeah o yeah {gap}, if they think it's handy to use a pen.
  Project Manager: and {disfmarker}
  Industrial Designer: {gap}
  User Interface: Yeah I think this uh this is a good size for the screen. I don't know how how large the actual remote should be but a little bit like this, or something.
  Project Manager: And maybe we have to add a tissue to remove the grease from all the fingers, huh. {vocalsound}
  User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah.
  Industrial Designer: Yeah {gap} You can do {gap} whatever uh any uh cloth.
  Marketing: Yeah but that that can be {gap} with plain soft tissue. Yeah,
  Project Manager: Okay well
  Marketing: you can buy those at {disfmarker}
  Project Manager: maybe, if I can interrupt you, maybe I should uh should show some points on which we uh should take a decision.
  Industrial Designer: Sure.
  Project Manager: So we can discuss these points. {gap} those points um energy question mark. How how should we uh supply the thing with energy and how {disfmarker} are we going to do it with separate docking station and then put {gap} in it. Uh chip on print and case. Those are points my uh coach advised me to discuss here, but I hope you have ideas about them.
  Marketing: {vocalsound}
  User Interface: I think energy were batteries and then uh and uh {disfmarker}
  Industrial Designer: The docking station.
  User Interface: Yeah.
  Project Manager: Yeah. So that's the the the first point.
  Marketing: Maybe it's better to to include rechargeable batteries
  Project Manager: We already decided that on the previous meeting.
  Industrial Designer: W {vocalsound}
  User Interface: Yeah. Yeah.
  Marketing: which you can recharge through the docking station.
  Project Manager: Mm-hmm.
  User Interface: Yeah. Just like with the telephone.
  Industrial Designer: Yeah.
  Marketing: So if the badg the batteries are dead
  Industrial Designer: I kinda like your {disfmarker}
  Marketing: then you can re you can uh change them.
  Industrial Designer: Yeah you got some uh some of those uh uh wireless uh mice? Mouse. Computer mouse.
  Marketing: Yeah yeah yeah like those.
  Industrial Designer: Kinda like those kind of batteries.
  User Interface: {vocalsound} but it should be th I think normal batteries,
  Marketing: Yep. {vocalsound}
  User Interface: not not like two or two uh {disfmarker}
  Marketing: Yeah, normal plain you {disfmarker} No normal plain batteries you can buy at the supermarket or retail shop. Yeah.
  User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah.
  Project Manager: Simple rechargeable uh batteries.
  Industrial Designer: Yeah.
  User Interface: Yeah. Um what was with the chip on print?
  Industrial Designer: The chip on print? Um {disfmarker} Uh you gotta f Yeah. I think so. Chip on print with a with a {vocalsound} simple uh a sim not a simple but a {disfmarker}
  Marketing: Print plate.
  Industrial Designer: We also discussed that. Didn't we? {vocalsound}
  Project Manager: Yeah but how did this how does that with a L_C_D_ screen? You still have a print plate.
  Industrial Designer: Uh {gap}
  Marketing: Yeah yeah yeah. You always have a print plate.
  Industrial Designer: Beg your pardon?
  Marketing: You always have a print plate,
  Project Manager: Mm-hmm.
  Industrial Designer: Yeah sure, of course, yeah.
  Marketing: right? Always, so {disfmarker} I dunno what w what we have to decide about that.
  Project Manager: Yeah well it's a good question.
  User Interface: {vocalsound}
  Marketing: {vocalsound}
  Project Manager: {vocalsound} It just was in there
  Industrial Designer: {gap} Well uh
  Project Manager: and I didn't have any information about it,
  Industrial Designer: chip on print, I think what they mean uh with the regular rubber buttons that you got, uh it's always clear for the remote control when you press uh a certain button.
  Project Manager: but {disfmarker} Mm-hmm.
  Industrial Designer: But when you got a L_C_D_ screen, with no uh with not {vocalsound} {disfmarker} the buttons are not always on the same place,
  Marketing: Yeah, okay. But {disfmarker}
  Industrial Designer: for example if you enlarge a button, or if you got several options uh appearing on your screen, uh the co-ordinations aren't always the same.
  User Interface: Yeah.
  Industrial Designer: When you got a regular button, th the button of stand-by is always on the same place and you got on the and on the {disfmarker}
  Marketing: Yeah okay, but the p print plate of L_ L_C_D_ screen is more advanced than a normal print plate,
  Industrial Designer: Yeah.
  Marketing: so that that's not of any discussion, I think.
  Project Manager: Well you need some kind of C_P_U_, I guess.
  Industrial Designer: {gap} I suppose so.
  Marketing: Mm, I don't I dunno I don't think that's {disfmarker}
  Industrial Designer: It is a simple C_P_U_ but it doesn't {disfmarker}
  Marketing: Yeah yeah okay but I d I I don't know if nor o s it's quite a simple L_C_D_.
  Industrial Designer: Yeah because it has to uh b
  Marketing: Yeah, it's quite a simple L_C_D_ screen. I think they don't need that big of C_P_U_.
  Industrial Designer: Yeah but it the the remote control has to know whether you're in a settings menu or just uh you just want to turn up the volume.
  Marketing: Yeah, okay, true true. True.
  Industrial Designer: So it has to have some kind of a calculation unit or C_P_U_
  User Interface: {vocalsound}
  Industrial Designer: to know uh in which state you are and uh which button you are pressing in at the right moment.
  Project Manager: Mm-hmm. {vocalsound} Because we're projecting projecting the buttons on the L_C_D_ screen.
  Industrial Designer: Yeah.
  User Interface: {gap}
  Industrial Designer: And a touch screen makes it uh possible to uh to get the co-ordination of your finger on the screen.
  Project Manager: Yeah.
  Industrial Designer: And the case, yeah we already discussed the case,
  User Interface: It's rubber.
  Industrial Designer: we wanted to make it from rubber
  User Interface: Yeah but but a hard rubber like this?
  Industrial Designer: and uh {disfmarker}
  User Interface: Or softer rubber or {disfmarker}
  Industrial Designer: Uh hard rubber I think.
  User Interface: Yeah.
  Industrial Designer: That's the easy to ha uh to to uh {disfmarker}
  Marketing: Yeah.
  User Interface: It bounces back from the floor where you {vocalsound} throw it.
  Industrial Designer: Yeah. Yeah sure, look {vocalsound}.
  Marketing: We have different colours.
  User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah yeah this in different colours?
  Industrial Designer: D
  Marketing: So the shapes is something between the square shapes with round colo corners and a round shapes? No I don't think, I think it's more round than square. {vocalsound}
  User Interface: Yeah it's a bit. But I think it should be a bit longer, perhaps.
  Marketing: So it meets I think it meets more the young people than the older people.
  Project Manager: Yeah. But that's what we want, {gap}.
  User Interface: Yeah. I think so too.
  Marketing: Yeah, that's our target. Yeah.
  Industrial Designer: It's our main target.
  Project Manager: Mm-hmm.
  User Interface: Yeah.
  Marketing: Lower than forty years, I think
  Industrial Designer: {gap} Well and how about my idea uh of making it um with one single curve?
  Marketing: it was.
  Industrial Designer: So i
  Marketing: Oh yeah that that {vocalsound} I think {disfmarker} I thought that was a quite good
  User Interface: Yeah.
  Industrial Designer: Because it's a gadget and you want to show it off, of course.
  Marketing: Yeah.
  Project Manager: Yeah yeah you have a fancy design, then, right away.
  User Interface: Yeah.
  Industrial Designer: Uh.
  Project Manager: So {disfmarker}
  Industrial Designer: Because it
  Marketing: You can put it on your table with the L_C_D_ screen,
  Industrial Designer: Yeah.
  Marketing: you don't have to put it {disfmarker} get it in your hand, you can put it next to you
  Industrial Designer: Yeah.
  Marketing: and then dive it in
  User Interface: Yeah, that's a good idea.
  Marketing: and {gap}. Yeah.
  Industrial Designer: It's a lot easier.
  User Interface: Yeah, alright.
  Industrial Designer: So, so
  Marketing: So {disfmarker}
  Project Manager: Okay so {disfmarker}
  Industrial Designer: you got uh {disfmarker}
  User Interface: And then {disfmarker} {vocalsound}
  Industrial Designer: Did you write that down? Uh got a single curved uh rubber f uh fancy coloured {vocalsound} remote control. {vocalsound}
  User Interface: {vocalsound}
  Marketing: You can't you You can't oh, you c you can draw it on your paper and then load it on the
  Industrial Designer: Yeah.
  User Interface: Yeah, you can uh {disfmarker}
  Project Manager: Yeah but I wrote it down. {vocalsound}
  User Interface: It's pretty easy but {disfmarker} And {disfmarker}
  Marketing: And load it on the the user the server.
  Project Manager: What about the user interface, there are also some some questions uh about the concepts I think you have some ideas on that {gap}.
  User Interface: Yeah,
  Project Manager: You you showed your drawing.
  User Interface: I had what I just uh I should {gap} again. I miss a few buttons, but. Well. At least uh {vocalsound} {disfmarker} what we should also have on, I just remembered, um a menu to go back through the first uh {gap} if if you touch options, you can't go back to this uh right away now.
  Marketing: Mm-hmm. Yeah, you have to go back. Yeah uh uh.
  User Interface: This {gap} {disfmarker}
  Marketing: Isn't it better to have the sound and the general buttons horizontal?
  User Interface: I don't know.
  Marketing: With the minus and the plus.
  User Interface: I think it's {disfmarker}
  Marketing: I think it's easier than {disfmarker}
  User Interface: I don't know. I I thought it was uh easier to handle this way,
  Marketing: Yeah.
  User Interface: but I don't know what they think.
  Industrial Designer: Sorry? {vocalsound}
  Marketing: {vocalsound}
  Project Manager: Mm.
  User Interface: Would you like the the buttons horizontal or v vertical?
  Marketing: For sound and channel.
  User Interface: Th
  Industrial Designer: Depends on the screen. If you make the screen vertical it doesn't matter. If you make it uh in a rectangle {disfmarker}
  User Interface: Right well if we make it like this, I think if you
  Marketing: Yeah.
  Industrial Designer: I so it's it's it's it's {disfmarker}
  User Interface: put it like this {disfmarker}
  Industrial Designer: Square. {gap}
  Marketing: I think it's it's easier to have it something like {disfmarker} Oh a button uh minus here, plus over here. A minus here, plus over here.
  Industrial Designer: {gap} Oh, okay.
  Marketing: And on here.
  User Interface: Yeah.
  Marketing: The other buttons and on here {vocalsound} the top.
  User Interface: Yeah.
  Marketing: The options and then you have something like uh the P_ over here,
  User Interface: But I think I wou
  Industrial Designer: {gap}
  Marketing: and the sound.
  User Interface: I think that's a matter of what you're used to.
  Marketing: Something uh {disfmarker}
  User Interface: I think I would put a plus and a min uh here. And then the P_ in the mid in the middle and the sound uh in the middle.
  Industrial Designer: Uh. {gap}
  Marketing: Something like {disfmarker}
  User Interface: {vocalsound}
  Marketing: {vocalsound} Sh
  Project Manager: {vocalsound}
  Industrial Designer: Take your time. {vocalsound}
  User Interface: {vocalsound}
  Marketing: Plus minus plus uh {vocalsound}
  User Interface: {vocalsound} Almost. {vocalsound}
  Industrial Designer: {gap}
  User Interface: Yeah
  Marketing: minus.
  User Interface: but I think when you are holding it, you could press the minus and the plus and with the other finger the minus and the plus.
  Marketing: Yeah I think you're going to s you're going to use it with one thumb.
  User Interface: Yeah but I think {disfmarker} Yeah I don't know. {vocalsound} Perhaps I have some examples.
  Industrial Designer: W
  User Interface: I don't know {disfmarker}
  Industrial Designer: We'll leave that to the usability engineering then. {vocalsound}
  Marketing: Who's the usability engineering?
  User Interface: That's me.
  Marketing: She is. {gap}
  User Interface: But I'm going to look if I've got some examples
  Industrial Designer: {gap} {vocalsound}
  User Interface:'cause perhaps you should choose what's most often used.
  Marketing: {vocalsound} Oh.
  User Interface: The {disfmarker}'Cause they can use that better.
  Industrial Designer: Yeah.
  Marketing: Um {disfmarker}
  Industrial Designer: Consistency.
  User Interface: Yeah.
  Marketing: Oh {gap} {disfmarker} I have that those s numbers.
  User Interface: I {disfmarker} Here is our {disfmarker} here are uh
  Marketing: Or a good watch.
  User Interface: I don't really know.
  Marketing: B
  Project Manager: Everybody's searching in his data.
  User Interface: {vocalsound} Yeah.
  Marketing: Channel selection. Per hour one hundred and sixty eight. Volume selection four times an hour
  User Interface: Yeah but {gap} {disfmarker} But I mean if it's usually plus or min above each other or next to each other on a normal remote.
  Industrial Designer: Yeah. So not how much {disfmarker} n not how often it's used, but {disfmarker}
  Marketing: Uh {disfmarker}
  User Interface: W what's what's usual or normal.
  Marketing: Yeah, that depends on on on the remote.
  User Interface: Yes I'm looking here. But here's it's below,
  Industrial Designer: Uh.
  User Interface: here also, and now here's here's next to each other.
  Industrial Designer: {gap}
  User Interface: I think it's {gap} it's a {disfmarker}
  Marketing: I think {gap} because I have two televisions at home. One is horizontal, one is vertical,
  User Interface: Yeah.
  Industrial Designer: Yeah it does it doesn't really matter,
  Marketing: so it depends.
  Industrial Designer: but {disfmarker}
  Marketing: Yeah. Depends.
  Industrial Designer: Uh.
  User Interface: I think the the the volume was usually uh above each other, because you go higher and down.
  Marketing: Yeah, lower.
  User Interface: And the the pay the the the program is next to each other, because you would go further and back.
  Industrial Designer: {gap}
  User Interface: That's how it's is usually {gap} when I look here
  Marketing: True.
  User Interface: that's what I see.
  Industrial Designer: Okay, um. Let's cut to the chase. {vocalsound}
  User Interface: {vocalsound}
  Marketing: {vocalsound} It's got to change.
  Project Manager: Yeah well I think we have we don't have to decide about that now how where we will put the buttons
  User Interface: I don't know.
  Project Manager: just the
  Marketing: Yeah is it is user interface.
  Project Manager: concepts.
  User Interface: Yeah.
  Marketing: Component.
  User Interface: This concept is in the actual design, but you should know where you would place a {disfmarker}
  Industrial Designer: Okay, well le Yeah. Interface, yeah.
  User Interface: And the speech uh shall we implement that? Or uh {disfmarker}
  Project Manager: Yeah well we just heard about the new uh technology, huh?
  Industrial Designer: Technologies, uh.
  Marketing: Yeah I think it's it's easy for that, where are you, but then it says I'm here.
  Industrial Designer: Yeah.
  User Interface: Yeah. But then you should also find a place {disfmarker}
  Industrial Designer: Makes it possible to {disfmarker}
  Marketing: Yeah.
  User Interface: You could if you do it like this you could put it in a corner or something. You can talk into the corner.
  Industrial Designer: Mm.
  Marketing: Yeah, a microphone, yeah.
  Industrial Designer: {gap} Not even necessary,
  Project Manager: Mm-hmm.
  Industrial Designer: because a lotta {disfmarker} you can make a very sensitive microphone, so it makes it possible to uh {vocalsound} just put it arou uh underneath it or on the on the bottom of the uh remote.
  Project Manager: Yeah maybe at the bottom where you can can hel hold it with you hand that there's also a microphone uh
  User Interface: Yeah. But {disfmarker} Yeah, that's also {gap}.
  Industrial Designer: Yeah.
  Marketing: {gap}
  Project Manager: over there.
  Industrial Designer: Right.
  User Interface: So, in the middle or something.
  Industrial Designer: But that's not import I think that's not im very important
  Project Manager: Yeah, yeah.
  Industrial Designer: because yeah, it doesn't matter where the microphone is.
  User Interface: {gap} but you should uh decide where you want to put it.
  Industrial Designer: Ah okay, sure, okay,
  User Interface: Right? {vocalsound}
  Industrial Designer: well tha
  Marketing: Um I think where it isn't seen
  Industrial Designer: Underneath? {gap} Indeed. It shouldn't be uh very uh visible.
  Marketing: the most.
  User Interface: You could p you could put it in a logo of the company. {vocalsound}
  Marketing: Inside.
  Project Manager: Yeah. Well
  Industrial Designer: Yeah sure, why no
  Marketing: {vocalsound} Yeah.
  Project Manager: maybe just in the the spot you just pointed out
  Marketing: I i between the round of the R_.
  User Interface: Yeah. {vocalsound}
  Project Manager: because I think it should be in a in an important position where people can see it,
  Marketing: Yeah.
  Project Manager: because it is the the unique uh idea of our remote, huh, the the speech control.
  User Interface: Yeah. So where do you want to put it?
  Marketing: Yeah, okay.
  Project Manager: Well maybe where the one hand {disfmarker}
  Industrial Designer: Yeah but it doesn't makes it uh any more fancy because you get to see uh {disfmarker}
  User Interface: Yeah actually it does {vocalsound} because it you can you can find it better if you use it.
  Marketing: Yeah. Yeah
  User Interface: It's a way for you to uh {disfmarker}
  Marketing: bu but {disfmarker}
  Industrial Designer: Uh.
  User Interface: So it makes more sense just'cause other remotes don't have that.
  Industrial Designer: Yeah, okay.
  Project Manager: But are we talking about the button, or about the microphone?
  User Interface: About a microphone,
  Project Manager: Yeah because a microphone is very small thing,
  User Interface: there is no button.
  Project Manager: but you can make it look like it's big so as its its really an important function of the remote.
  User Interface: Yeah.
  Marketing: I think the left s under corner should be the best.
  Industrial Designer: {gap}
  Marketing: Where isn't {disfmarker} i it isn't most in sight.
  User Interface: Yeah.
  Industrial Designer: Okay. Well put it there. I don't mind. {vocalsound}
  Marketing: I think.
  Project Manager: {vocalsound}
  User Interface: {vocalsound}
  Industrial Designer: That doesn't doesn't really matter.
  Marketing: No. Actually doesn't.
  Industrial Designer: Okay. So?
  User Interface: Alright. Any more uh {disfmarker}
  Project Manager: So well uh
  Industrial Designer: {vocalsound} Interface type.
  Project Manager: type, supplements, anything. Yeah, well we already s discussed that, huh, the the L_C_D_
  Industrial Designer: The L_C_D_ yeah,
  Project Manager: and {disfmarker}
  User Interface: Yeah.
  Industrial Designer: uh supplements well the supplement is to {disfmarker}
  Marketing: {gap} I think {disfmarker} I thought the, like you said, like scroll {vocalsound} next to the remote isn't that handy.
  Industrial Designer: yeah.
  User Interface: Yeah. {gap}
  Marketing: I think it's better to just {gap} up what you'd like to do on the screen. If you want to go back you have to back button go back,
  Industrial Designer: {gap}
  User Interface: Yeah.
  Marketing: if you want to choose audio settings you press audio settings and it goes to that s sub-menu.
  Industrial Designer: Hey,
  User Interface: {vocalsound} Um yeah. Yeah
  Industrial Designer: {gap}. {vocalsound}
  User Interface: the the young people do like uh scroll uh
  Industrial Designer: Use the scroll. Yeah I think so too.
  Marketing: Yeah? You do like it?
  Industrial Designer: So why not, on on side.
  User Interface: Or at least {disfmarker} Yeah I don't know if it's really the scroll, but the menu {gap} they like most, and I think you can never get through a menu great with a scroll uh {disfmarker}
  Industrial Designer: Fast, yeah. So if you've got a settings, if you {disfmarker}
  Marketing: Yeah I think it is is faster. Becau I think the scroll's easier if you have a lot of options,
  Industrial Designer: Yes. {vocalsound}
  Marketing: but if you don't have a lot of option then {disfmarker}
  User Interface: But you have {disfmarker} it's f uh
  Industrial Designer: You have a lot of options,
  User Interface: we have five or four or something.
  Industrial Designer: because when you use {disfmarker} Yeah you get w when you use uh the settings menu for example to look up some uh uh some channels on your uh on your television, you should scroll scroll down uh on a menu which probably does not fit on your screen.
  Marketing: Y
  Project Manager: Mm-hmm.
  Marketing: Uh-huh. Yeah, okay, true.
  User Interface: Yeah.
  Industrial Designer: So then it's uh very handy to to scroll down,
  Marketing: Okay.
  Industrial Designer: you make just a rubber just like uh on your mouse or. Just put it on the side and it's very easy to use.
  Marketing: {gap} Okay, no problem.
  Project Manager: And I think I would it would make even more fancy because you have another interesting thing on the side
  Industrial Designer: Yeah, yeah.
  Project Manager: which you can touch
  User Interface: Yeah. {vocalsound}
  Project Manager: and {disfmarker}
  User Interface: It's also different. {vocalsound}
  Project Manager: Yeah.
  Industrial Designer: Yeah.
  Marketing: Okay.
  Project Manager: Okay. Well there's our five minutes uh warning. Um any more uh questions about about the design or the user interface or different components, everyone?
  Marketing: Um. No, colours are clear,
  Project Manager: Everybody think they can can
  Marketing: shape is clear, material is clear.
  Industrial Designer: Okay, what's the standard colour?
  Project Manager: work for that?
  Marketing: And a standard,
  Project Manager: Is there a standard colour?
  Marketing: yeah we don't {disfmarker}
  Industrial Designer: I I
  Marketing: no we have different colour.
  Industrial Designer: You got you got different colours,
  Marketing: How many colours are we going to {disfmarker}
  User Interface: You should you should have a black one
  Industrial Designer: but you should have a standard colour.
  User Interface: because uh I think black is standard.
  Marketing: Black. Yeah, black I think is is the standard.
  Industrial Designer: Black? With the with the yellow uh {disfmarker} {vocalsound}
  User Interface: But if you want to be different, then uh {disfmarker}
  Marketing: Dark grey, something like this this colour or something.
  Industrial Designer: Just a regular uh remote colour.
  Marketing: Yeah like like yeah.
  Industrial Designer: And then have uh different covers uh to use.
  Marketing: Or or silver. I think it's better to have silver nowadays.
  User Interface: Silver.
  Industrial Designer: Silver, yeah.
  Project Manager: Yeah.
  Marketing: I think you see more silver than black.
  Industrial Designer: You see a lot of t uh silver televisions.
  Project Manager: But still silver and black are {disfmarker} well
  User Interface: Silver rubber. {vocalsound}
  Marketing: Yeah the the silver black are our main colours. Yeah.
  Project Manager: silver is new but also traditional, so uh {disfmarker}
  Marketing: I think we have silver, black and between those {vocalsound} is like I dunno s five colours between them or something.
  Project Manager: Yeah w what about a yellow thing, I mean it
  Industrial Designer: Yeah y I think it's better to {disfmarker}
  Marketing: Yeah yeah yeah it'll be a banana yellow, we have.
  Project Manager: could be ugly, but it's definitely fancy.
  User Interface: {vocalsound} But
  Marketing: R red.
  Industrial Designer: Yeah th yeah. That's right.
  User Interface: yeah.
  Industrial Designer: But if you use uh silver, uh rubber s silver rubber isn't fancy.
  Marketing: Green, wood, brown. Yeah. True.
  Industrial Designer: When you use titanium, silver is fancy,
  User Interface: Yeah.
  Industrial Designer: but when you use silver rubber, it isn't fancy. Silver has to shine, and rubber doesn't shine.
  Project Manager: Mm-hmm.
  Industrial Designer: Especially when it's made of soft rubber like this.
  User Interface: Yeah.
  Industrial Designer: You understand? {vocalsound}
  Marketing: Yeah, I understand.
  Project Manager: Yeah I would think about colours like uh red, yellow, green, blue,
  Industrial Designer: Yeah.
  Marketing: Yeah o of course.
  Project Manager: just {disfmarker}
  Marketing: The fruity colours and the autumn colours, like red and brown, {gap} dark red and brown.
  Project Manager: Yeah.
  User Interface: Just all kind of colour.
  Industrial Designer: Fruity. Fruity loops.
  Project Manager: Mm-hmm. Maroon. Yeah.
  User Interface: Yeah.
  Industrial Designer: Okay.
  Project Manager: Okay, so {disfmarker}
  User Interface: And and do we have to have a normal black one, or uh {disfmarker}
  Project Manager: Who's pinging?
  User Interface: Is it {disfmarker}
  Project Manager: You are pingin
  Marketing: No {gap}.
  Project Manager: Okay. {vocalsound} I thought we
  User Interface: {vocalsound}
  Industrial Designer: You ping. {vocalsound}
  Project Manager: Okay, so uh that wraps it up? Everybody knows uh what to do?
  User Interface: Yeah.
  Project Manager: Well I wrote it down here. I wrote it down here what to do um.
  User Interface: Well I don't know what to do,
  Industrial Designer: Well not what to do. Not what to do.
  User Interface: but. {vocalsound}
  Project Manager: The next meeting is once again in thirty minutes. Um here are the individual actions,
  Industrial Designer: Okay.
  Project Manager: and especially notice that uh the Industrial Designer and the User Interface Designer are going to work together on a prototype drawing on a smart board,
  User Interface: Ooh. {vocalsound} Right.
  Marketing: S
  Project Manager: and of course to all four of us uh specific instructions will be emailed by our personal coach.
  User Interface: Yeah.
  Marketing: tough. We'll be available.
  User Interface: But do we have to {disfmarker} We'll work together, but do we have to stay here, or do we {disfmarker}
  Project Manager: Well I I'd say just wait uh for email and uh find out.
  User Interface: Right.
  Project Manager: I don't know. {vocalsound}
  User Interface: Yes. Okay. {vocalsound}
  Industrial Designer: Thin I think we should work {vocalsound}.
  Project Manager: Okay well that was what I had to say, uh,
  User Interface: Yeah I think {gap}.
  Project Manager: final thoughts from anyone, or?
  User Interface: No.
  Project Manager: We're finished.
  Marketing: No.
  Project Manager: Okay, well thank you very much.
  User Interface: Yeah.
  Industrial Designer: Thank you very much.
  Marketing: Finished.
  User Interface: So we have to keep talking English now? {vocalsound}
output: Project Manager began a conceptual design meeting with the group, they discussed the components design, interface design at first. In the presentation, material, colour, type and supplement were referred. Then marketing shared the watch trend over the past and future, and thought young and old people's different tastes should be taken into consideration when designed. After that, the group made a discussion about the remote control concept. The final decision about remote control was made by a round shape and green colour with speech recognition and LCD screen to appeal to the target population.