“The notion that Mr. Cohen would have spoken to Mr. Weisselberg about a proposition he had yet to even make to the president does not ring true,” he said. “Mr. Weisselberg is a bookkeeper who simply carries out directions from others about monetary payments and transfers. There would be no reason for Mr. Cohen to have any conversation with Mr. Weisselberg prior to him recommending and obtaining approval for the purchase he was suggesting.”<doc-sep>People now hear at least three different things at a pivotal point in the secret recording of a conversation between President Donald Trump and his former longtime lawyer Michael Cohen. They were discussing buying the rights to the story of a former Playboy model who says she had an affair with Trump years ago. What Trump actually said could have significant ramifications for what happens next. Some people can hear only "pay with cash," though there is muddled audio right before that. Trump's legal team says the president said, "Don't pay with cash." An audio-forensics expert says Trump said, "I'll pay with cash." What President Donald Trump said at a pivotal point in a conversation with his former longtime lawyer Michael Cohen has become the center of a fierce dispute that could have significant ramifications for what happens next. A secret audio recording, which Cohen is said to have made in September 2016 without the president's knowledge, features a conversation between the two men in which they discuss buying the rights to the story of a former Playboy model who says she had an affair with Trump years ago. The existence of the tape was first revealed Friday. It was seized by the FBI in its April raids of Cohen's home, office, and hotel room as part of a criminal investigation focusing on him. Trump's attorneys waived privilege claims over the tape and 11 others seized from Cohen. On Tuesday night, Lanny Davis, an attorney for Cohen, provided the tape to CNN. The National Enquirer purchased the rights to Karen McDougal's story for $150,000 in August 2016 but never published it. That practice is known as "catch and kill," and it effectively silenced McDougal's allegations. On the tape, Cohen and Trump can be heard discussing a plan to purchase the rights to McDougal's story from the outlet's publisher, American Media Inc., whose head, David Pecker, is a longtime friend of Trump's. Though the tape makes clear Trump was aware of the subject before the 2016 presidential election, his campaign denied any knowledge of the topic. While Trump's legal team acknowledged that the conversation was about McDougal, it said nothing illegal took place and no payment was made. A debate between Davis and Trump's lawyer Rudy Giuliani centers on what Trump said in the recording about the method of a potential payment: After Cohen can be heard saying he spoke with a top Trump Organization executive about setting up a company and the financing for such a payment, Trump responds, "What financing?" The only three clearly audible words he says after that are "pay with cash." Some hear only this on the tape. There's muddled audio before Trump says "pay with cash." Some hear Trump saying "don't pay with cash." At least one expert hears him saying "I'll pay with cash." After Trump made the comment in question, Cohen replied, "No, no, no." The tape then cuts off with a voice that sounds like Trump's saying "check." 'The president is not an idiot' Giuliani told Fox News after the tape aired on CNN that the word Trump said before "pay with cash" was "don't," signaling that Trump did not want the potential payment to be kept under wraps. Giuliani pointed to the word "check" as proof that Trump wanted such a payment to be done that way. Trump. Kevin Dietsch-Pool/Getty Images Giuliani said there was "no way the president is going to be talking about setting up a corporation then using cash, unless you're a complete idiot." "And again, the president is not an idiot," he said. Alan Futerfas, an attorney representing the Trump Organization, told The Washington Post on Tuesday that "cash" in the conversation was referring to making a one-time payment rather than financing a transaction over time. "Anyone who knows anything about the company or how the president does business knows there is no green cash," Futerfas told CNN. "Everything is documented. Every penny is documented." On Wednesday, CNN commissioned an audio-forensics expert to review the tape. The expert, Ed Primeau, said he had not read a transcript of the recording beforehand and did not watch any news reports about the tape. He said he does not regularly follow the news so he can stay unbiased. Primeau concluded that Trump responded with "I'll pay with cash," not "don't pay with cash." Primeau used tools to enhance the audio, isolate specific words, and examine sound waves on a screen, CNN said. Primeau added that the tape is clearly cut off after "check." In a text message exchange with Business Insider, Giuliani responded to CNN's analyst and said the Trump legal team "analyzed" the tape "several times and our transcript is accurate as to Cohen-Trump conversation." Wanting to pay for the potential expense in cash — making it impossible to trace — could suggest Trump wanted to conceal evidence of a possible campaign-finance violation. If he wanted to pay with a check, however, Trump's intentions would be viewed differently. Barbara McQuade, a former federal prosecutor, told The Post that if such a payment were "willfully" not disclosed, it would be a crime. Even if a payment was not made, there "could still be a conspiracy" to commit such a crime, she said. The conversation could become important in relation to another payment: the $130,000 Cohen paid to the porn star Stormy Daniels ahead of the 2016 presidential election to keep her quiet about allegations of a 2006 affair with Trump. McQuade told The Post that the tape "could be used as evidence of intent in the larger context of other evidence."<doc-sep>Finally, the tape has become public. And it revealed the statements by Ms. Hicks and Mr. Giuliani to be false. The recording, which was broadcast by CNN late Tuesday night, shows Mr. Trump was directly involved in talks about whether to pay The Enquirer for the rights to the woman’s story. The recording, and the repeated statements it contradicts, is a stark example of how Mr. Trump and his aides have used falsehoods as a shield against tough questions and unflattering coverage. Building upon his repeated cry of “fake news,” he told supporters this week not to believe the news. “What you’re seeing and what you’re reading is not what’s happening,” the president added. In a capital where politicians have made an art form of the nondenial denial, press secretaries typically reserve their on-the-record denials for reports that are outright false. Candidates can weather most embarrassing stories, and spokespeople know that getting caught in a lie only makes things worse. It was a lie about an affair, after all, that led to President Bill Clinton’s impeachment — though his most fateful move was testifying falsely under oath — just as it was a lie about infidelity that ended the political career of John Edwards, once a rising Democratic star (a story that broke in The Enquirer, coincidentally). But Mr. Trump, both as a candidate and as president, has turned that thinking on its head. When faced with the evidence of its misstatements, the administration sidesteps and moves on. “I’m not going to get into a back-and-forth,” the White House press secretary, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, said last month when confronted with her unequivocal, and false, denials that Mr. Trump had dictated his son’s misleading statement about meeting with Russians.<doc-sep>NEW YORK, NY - AUGUST 21: Michael Cohen, former lawyer to U.S. President Donald Trump, exits the Federal Courthouse on August 21, 2018 in New York City. Cohen reached an agreement with prosecutors, pleading guilty to charges involving bank fraud, tax fraud and campaign finance violations. (Photo by Yana Paskova/Getty Images) Michael Cohen, U.S. President Donald Trump's personal attorney, takes a phone call as he sits outside near the Loews Regency hotel on Park Ave on April 13, 2018 in New York City. (Yana Paskova/Getty Images) NEW YORK, NY - MAY 30: Michael Cohen, (C) former personal lawyer and confidante for President Donald Trump, exits the United States District Court Southern District of New York on May 30, 2018 in New York City. According to a filing submitted to the court Tuesday night by special master Barbara Jones, federal prosecutors investigating Michael Cohen, a longtime personal lawyer and confidante for President Donald Trump, are set to receive 1 million files from three of his cellphones that were seized last month. (Photo by Eduardo Munoz Alvarez/Getty Images) NEW YORK, NY - MAY 30: Michael Cohen, (L) former personal lawyer and confidante for President Donald Trump, exits the United States District Court Southern District of New York on May 30, 2018 in New York City. According to a filing submitted to the court Tuesday night by special master Barbara Jones, federal prosecutors investigating Michael Cohen, a longtime personal lawyer and confidante for President Donald Trump, are set to receive 1 million files from three of his cellphones that were seized last month. (Photo by Eduardo Munoz Alvarez/Getty Images) NEW YORK, NY - AUGUST 21: Michael Cohen, President Donald Trump's former personal attorney and fixer, exits federal court, August 21, 2018 in New York City. Cohen reached an agreement with prosecutors, pleading guilty to charges involving bank fraud, tax fraud and campaign finance violations. (Photo by Drew Angerer/Getty Images) Michael Cohen, a longtime personal lawyer and confidante for President Donald Trump, leaves the United States District Court Southern District of New York on May 30, 2018 in New York City. (DON EMMERT/AFP/Getty Images) (CNN) — Presidential candidate Donald Trump is heard on tape discussing with his attorney Michael Cohen how they would buy the rights to a Playboy model’s story about an alleged affair Trump had with her years earlier, according to the audio recording of the conversation aired exclusively on CNN’s “Cuomo Prime Time.” The recording offers the public a glimpse at the confidential discussions between Trump and Cohen, and it confirms the man who now occupies the Oval Office had contemporaneous knowledge of a proposal to buy the rights to the story of Karen McDougal, a woman who has alleged she had an extramarital affair with Trump about a decade ago. Cohen told Trump about his plans to set up a company and finance the purchase of the rights from American Media, which publishes the National Enquirer. The recording captures what appears to be a routine business conversation of several matters on their agenda. The audio is muddled and the meaning of Trump’s use of the word “cash” is disputed by the two sides. “I need to open up a company for the transfer of all of that info regarding our friend David,” Cohen said in the recording, likely a reference to American Media head David Pecker. When financing comes up again later in the conversation, Trump interrupts Cohen asking, “What financing?” according to the recording. When Cohen tells Trump, “We’ll have to pay,” Trump is heard saying “pay with cash” but the audio is muddled and it’s unclear whether he suggests paying with cash or not paying. Cohen says, “no, no” but it is not clear what is said next. No payment was ever made from Trump, Rudy Giuliani, the President’s attorney, has said. Giuliani has previously acknowledged that the recorded discussion related to the buying the story rights. “There’s no indication of any crime being committed on this tape,” Giuliani said on Fox News Channel Tuesday night. Trump blasted Cohen over the disclosure Wednesday morning. “What kind of a lawyer would tape a client? So sad! Is this a first, never heard of it before? Why was the tape so abruptly terminated (cut) while I was presumably saying positive things? I hear there are other clients and many reporters that are taped - can this be so? Too bad!” Trump tweeted. The recording, which was provided to CNN by Cohen’s attorney Lanny Davis, was made in September 2016. It’s the latest breakdown in the decade-long relationship between Trump and Cohen, who once said he would take a bullet for the President. Cohen in recent weeks has made clear he is open to cooperating with US prosecutors. “What is this about? This is about honesty versus false disparagement of Michael Cohen. Why is Giuliani out falsely disparaging Michael Cohen – because they fear him,” Davis said on “Cuomo Prime Time.” “What do they fear, Chris? Why am I representing him? They fear that he has the truth about Donald Trump. He will someday speak the truth about Donald Trump. The truth is that when Donald Trump said ‘cash,’ which Rudy Giuliani knows that only drug dealers and mobsters talk about cash, it was, you heard Michael Cohen … say what? ‘No, no, no, no.’” Davis later added: “Ladies and gentlemen, if you voted for Donald Trump, listen to the tape and ask yourself: Is Donald Trump lying when he said he didn’t use the word ‘cash’ and accuses Michael Cohen of using the word ‘cash’? Cohen has been disparaged. Cohen has been insulted and called all sorts of things by people around Donald Trump.” Giuliani and Alan Futerfas, a lawyer for the Trump Organization, refuted that the tape shows Trump was offering a cash payment. “There’s no way the President is going to be setting up a corporation and then using cash, unless you’re a complete idiot,” Giuliani said on Fox News Tuesday night. “This was leaked on us with a very, very scurrilous description of what was on the tape,” he added.<doc-sep>
Just days before the 2016 presidential election, The Wall Street Journal broke news that the National Enquirer’s parent company, American Media Inc. (AMI), had purchased the rights to the story of a former Playboy model, Karen McDougal, who claimed she had an affair with Donald Trump. The Enquirer then killed the story, shielding Trump from the potential fallout of McDougal’s claims. At the time, the Journal reached out to Trump’s camp for comment on the matter. Then-Trump campaign spokesman Hope Hicks denied the affair occurred and claimed the Trump campaign was completely unaware of McDougal’s dealings with AMI. “We have no knowledge of any of this,” Hicks told the Journal. On Monday evening, CNN published proof that Hicks’ claim was a brazen lie. The network obtained and played an audio recording of a September 2016 discussion between Trump and his longtime lawyer and fixer, Michael Cohen, about a plan to purchase rights for McDougal’s story from AMI. The recording — which was made by Cohen and seized during a recent FBI raid of his home and offices — is somewhat inconclusive at points. But one thing is clear: Trump and Cohen appear to be discussing a subject they’re familiar with. Trump was not surprised when Cohen brought up a plan to make payments related to McDougal, effectively silencing her story ahead of the election. “So, what do we got to pay for this? One-fifty?” Trump can be heard saying. Trump can also be heard using the word “cash” in the context of possible payments to AMI for McDougal’s story. Here, via the Washington Post, is the transcript of that part of the recording: COHEN: When it comes time for the financing, which will be — TRUMP: Wait a sec, what financing? COHEN: Well, I’ll have to pay him something. TRUMP: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] pay with cash … COHEN: No, no, no, no, no. I got it. TRUMP: … check. During an interview on CNN, Cohen’s lawyer, Lanny Davis, urged people to “listen to the tape” to determine whether they believe this was the first time Trump had ever heard of the McDougal payments. “This is not a man shocked when Mr. Cohen said, ‘we have to make payments,'” Davis said in reference to Trump. “We know that Trump has lied, even during the campaign when his spokesman denied two months after this tape that he know anything about McDougal,” he continued, alluding to the Journal’s report. “Ladies and gentlemen, if you voted for Trump, listen to the tape and ask yourself, is Donald Trump lying?” Trump’s camp has shifted its story about the McDougal payments over time. Now, they don’t dispute that Hicks lied in her statement to the Journal. Instead, they dispute that Trump can be heard suggesting cash payments on the recording. Trump’s legal team released their own transcript of the tape in an attempt to make this case. According to Rudy Giuliani and company, even though Trump can’t definitively be heard saying these words on the recording, he supposedly actually told Cohen, “Don’t pay with cash… check.” In response to team Trump’s alternative transcript, Davis urged the American public, “Don’t believe fake transcripts… the only people who use cash are drug dealers and mobsters.” Nonetheless, the president’s favorite show, Fox & Friends, on Wednesday morning represented Trump’s version of the transcript as the final word on the matter. .@foxandfriends is treating team Trump's transcript of Cohen tape — a transcript at odds with what it sounds like Trump actually said — as if it's the gospel truth. (It doesn't sound like Trump says, ""Don't pay with cash." Instead, it sounds like he suggests paying cash.) pic.twitter.com/T8rYVpoUPW — Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) July 25, 2018 Team Trump starting pushing an alternative transcript of the Cohen tape just hours after Trump urged his supporters during a speech in Kansas City to disregard what they see and hear — and simply believe what he tells them. “Don’t believe the crap you see from these people, the fake news,” Trump said, pointing at reporters as the crowd broke out in boos. “Just remember, what you’re seeing and what you’re reading is not what’s happening.” Regardless of the dispute over what exactly Trump can be heard saying on the Cohen tape, the fact remains that the Trump campaign pushed a brazen lie about Trump’s knowledge of payments to McDougal at a critical time in the campaign, while he was reeling from a string of sexual assault allegations.