CNN’s Chris Cuomo spoke with Rudy Giuliani tonight to again try and make sense of the latest flip-flop from President Donald Trump‘s lawyer. Giuliani denied to Tapper that he ever said Trump told James Comey to give Michael Flynn a break. Minutes later Tapper showed him the video of him directly saying that. After talking about Omarosa, Cuomo told Giuliani tonight, “I cannot find you ever saying the president did not have that conversation with Comey until this weekend.” Giuliani insisted he did so from the beginning, and Cuomo asked, “Why do you keep arguing in the alternative if you have high ground that it never happened?” “Because I can get him out of it legally,” Giuliani responded. “I can get him out of it factually. He’s got both defenses.” For this to be true, Cuomo pointed out, Comey would have to be a “crazy liar.” Giuliani said he is one. He went on to argue that if Comey felt “he was being obstructed… he had a duty to report it,” leading to this exchange: CUOMO: So you’re saying that if the President did say to Jim Comey what Jim Comey says it is, that there’s a crime involved? GIULIANI: Yes. CUOMO: But only for Jim Comey, not for the President of the United States? GIULIANI: Well, the President says he didn’t say it. And the best evidence of it is Comey never reported it. Cuomo said that “seems a little tortured.” Giuliani again said, “It’s not a problem for Trump because he never said it. Comey claims he said it.” To clarify, Cuomo asked at one point, “And the President has said to you, ‘I never said any word to him ever about Flynn ever’ in that context?” Giuliani responded, “Pretty much, yeah. That’s pretty close.” Cuomo said again that rather remarkable claim would mean “Jim Comey made up the whole conversation.” You can watch the full exchange above, via CNN. [image via screengrab] — — Follow Josh Feldman on Twitter: @feldmaniac Have a tip we should know? [email protected]<doc-sep>The president’s lawyer, former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, appeared on CNN Sunday morning in what has become a weekend tradition — the former mayor goes on national television and demonstrates that maybe “lawyer to the president” isn’t the best job for him. In this week’s edition of The Rudy Show, Giuliani denied ever saying that Donald Trump asked then-FBI Director James Comey to give a former top aide “a break.” A few minutes later, CNN host Jake Tapper played video of Giuliani telling ABC News that Trump asked Comey to give former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn “a break.” Giuliani also offered an idiosyncratic explanation of what constitutes obstruction of justice under federal law, claiming that Trump did not commit a crime even if he did tell Comey to “go easy” on Flynn (Flynn pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI regarding conversations with the Russian ambassador last December). Advertisement “The statement ‘go easy on him’ is hardly an obstruction,” Giuliani claimed. “Obstruction involves a threat, obstruction involves a false testimony, obstruction involves an offer of money — has to be corrupt.“ Giuliani is correct that threats, false testimony, and bribes can all form the basis for an obstruction prosecution, but this is hardly an exhaustive list. For one thing, there is no one federal law prohibiting a singular crime known as “obstruction.” To the contrary, federal law forbids a wide range of activities — threatening or harassing witnesses; bribing jurors, federal officials, or witnesses; lying to federal investigators or under oath; and kidnapping the family members of a federal judge, just to name of few — which can all be lumped under the broad heading “obstruction of justice.” One of the broadest of these obstruction laws provides that “whoever corruptly…influences, obstructs, or impedes or endeavors to influence, obstruct, or impede the due and proper administration of the law under which any pending proceeding is being had before any department or agency of the United States” faces a fine and up to 5 years in prison. If Trump is prosecuted for pressuring (and later firing) Comey, this statute is likely to form the basis for that prosecution. The word “corruptly” in this context, is defined broadly to include any action taken with “an improper purpose.” Advertisement So Giuliani is wrong that prosecutors must show that Trump made an explicit threat, engaged in bribery, or committed some other similar offense in order to prove obstruction. Merely acting with an “improper purpose” to influence an ongoing agency investigation may constitute obstruction of justice. In fairness, there is some uncertainty in the law which a better attorney could raise on Trump’s behalf. The particular fact pattern at issue in this case — a sitting president pressures the head of a law enforcement agency to go easy on a former top aide, then fires that agency head shortly thereafter — isn’t exactly a common occurrence in American history, so there is no case law stating clearly that the words “improper purpose” apply specifically to Trump’s conduct. At least one of Trump’s defenders in the legal academy, moreover, claims that the law banning attempts to influence a “pending proceeding” does not apply to FBI investigations. At least one federal appeals court disagrees, however. The United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit held that the word “proceeding” is “of broad scope, encompassing both the investigative and adjudicative functions of a department or agency.” Trump also could have a built-in advantage if he is prosecuted because he’s selected so many federal judges during his time as president. Judge Brett Kavanaugh, Trump’s nominee to the Supreme Court, believes that presidents should have broad immunity from legal proceedings while they are in office. But Giuliani did not dive into any of this nuance concerning obstruction prosecutions. He simply made a misleading statement about what the law says. Trump does not need to engage in bribery, threats, or similar conduct to face prosecution. His treatment of James Comey may be enough.<doc-sep>Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani insisted on Sunday that a central claim of fired FBI Director James Comey – one that could land the president in legal hot water – is completely false. Comey wrote in a private memo following a February 2017 meeting with Trump that the newly minted president had asked him to tone down the investigative pressure on former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn. Not so, Giuliani claimed. Flynn was bounced from the White House after just 24 days on the job, an event Trump has said was a consequence of Flynn's lies to the FBI about his pre-inauguration contacts with a now-former Russian ambassador. Comey, however, has claimed the president asked him whether there was a FISA investigation into Flynn, and suggested he should go easy on the retired lieutenant general and consider 'letting Flynn go.' 'I was so stunned by the conversation that I just took it in,' he told a Senate panel in June 2017. SCROLL DOWN FOR VIDEOS Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani said Sunday on CNN's 'State of the Union' program that the president and later-fired FBI Director James Comey never discussed the idea of going easy on disgraced former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn Trump and Comey met early in 2017 and the two men's recollections are different; Comey wrote his down in the car afterward Comey has conceded in congressional testimony that Trump never ordered him to back off from investigating Flynn, who later pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about his late 2016 contacts with Russia's then-ambassador Sergey Kislyak Trump's exact words, according to Comey – who memorialized them on paper afterward – were: 'I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go. He is good guy. I hope you can let this go.' Giuliani said on Sunday that none of it ever happened. 'There was no conversation about Michael Flynn. The president didn't find out that Comey believed there was until about – I think it was February when it supposedly took place,' he said on CNN's 'State of the Union' program. Democrats have seized on Comey's claim to the contrary as evidence that Trump obstructed justice by interfering with an intelligence investigation that could establish ties between the Trump transition and the Russian government. Special Counsel Robert Mueller's lengthy probe into such purported but unproven links has been a consistent distraction for the Trump administration. And Comey's claims, made while he was working on a memoir that clobbered Trump, have escalated the tension. But Giuliani noted Sunday that before Comey released his memo to the media through a third party, the former lawman assured senator sthat Trump and his team never obstructed his ongoing investigations. '[The] memo came out in May [2017],' Giuliani said. 'And in between, Comey testified under oath: In no way had he been obstructed at any time.' 'Then all of the sudden in May he says he felt obstructed. He felt pressured by that comment, "you should go easy on Flynn." So we maintain the President didn't say that.' What Comey said in his June 2017 congressional grilling is that 'I don't think it's for me to say whether the conversation I had with the president was an effort to obstruct.' But he did concede that Trump's expression of 'hope' that Flynn, a decorated military officer, could save face, didn't constitute a criminal act. 'Those words are not an order,' Comey conceded. The president has insisted in the past that he never 'asked Comey to stop investigating Flynn'; it matters because intervening in a criminal probe about the retired general coud be seen as obstruction of justice Giuliani said last month during a Sunday broadcast of ABC's 'This Week' show that Trump 'didn't direct' Comey to fold his Flynn investigation during the fateful February 20176 one-on-one. 'He didn't direct him to do that,' Giuliani said then. 'What he said was, "Can you, can you give him a break?"' Giuliani's interview Sunday isn't the first time the White House has disputed Comey's version of events. Trump himself tweeted in December 2017, amid a digital tirade against his own Justice Department, that 'I never asked Comey to stop investigating Flynn.' 'Just more Fake News covering another Comey lie!' Flynn had pleaded guilty a week earlier to a single count of lying to the FBI.<doc-sep>President Donald Trump‘s lawyer Rudy Giuliani insisted on CNN that his client never told former FBI director James Comey to give Michael Flynn a break. Jake Tapper then aired a video of Giuliani claiming the opposite in an interview from last month. The State of the Union anchor first asked Giuliani about his own claims last month, the former New York lawyer rejected the question. “I never told ABC that,” he said. “That’s crazy. I never said that. What I said was, that is what Comey is saying Trump said. I have always said the president denies it. It would be easier for me if the president did say that.” Giuliani continued to insist that he hadn’t said Trump told Comey to go easy on Flynn, the former National Security Adviser. Tapper moved on to other questions, but eventually returned to the Comey question once his producers set up a clip of Giuliani’s claims, made in an ABC News interview. “I just want to play for you, because earlier in the interview I was talking about a comment you made to ABC News a month ago about what exactly President Trump said to Comey,” Tapper said. “You’re now saying that the president tells you that he said nothing.” “I’ve been saying this from the beginning,” Giuliani said. “I’m talking about Comey’s rendition.” Tapper played the ABC News clip, in which Giuliani said Trump asked Comey “can you give him a break,” with regards to Flynn. “I said it but also said before it I’m talking about their investigation of it,” Giuliani replied awkwardly, before claiming he was “arguing in the alternative.” Watch above, via CNN. H/t Contemptor. Have a tip we should know? [email protected]<doc-sep>
During an appearance on Monday morning’s edition of Fox & Friends, President Trump’s lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, tried and failed to defend President Trump from accusations of potential obstruction of justice regarding the Russia probe. Giuliani said that Trump never asked then-FBI Director James Comey to drop his investigation into Trump’s former national security adviser Michael Flynn in the weeks before Comey’s firing — but added that even if Trump had asked Comey to do this, it wouldn’t be a problem. Giuliani’s latest comments represent an attempt to clean up the confusion generated by his appearance on CNN on Sunday, during which he denied that Trump ever asked Comey to give Flynn “a break.” Giuliani’s recent comments on CNN contradicted what he said on national TV in July, when he seemingly acknowledged Trump did make that request of Comey. Giuliani’s new position attempts to paper over the contradiction by arguing that while Trump never made the request, even if he did, it’s no biggie. “Under Article 2 of the constitution, you can’t really question why the president would say something — he has the power to say it,” Giuliani said. “Number two, what he was saying is perfectly justifiable. He didn’t say, ‘you must, you have to, I’ll fire you if you don’t’ — he said, ‘consider it.’ Number three, he never said it. Lawyers argue like this — we call it ‘argue in the alternative. '” Giuliani went on to acknowledge that while Trump may not “remember correctly” what he asked of Comey during their conversation, even if his memory is faulty, “it doesn’t amount to a violation of anything.” Giuliani’s new position about Trump’s conversations with Comey regarding Flynn resembles the position Team Trump has staked out about potential collusion with Russia during the 2016 presidential campaign — that it didn’t happen, but even if it did, it’s not a serious problem because collusion isn’t a crime. As ThinkProgress detailed on Sunday, Giuliani is operating with an exceedingly narrow definition of “obstruction of justice.” Despite what Giuliani would have Fox News viewers believe, it’s unclear whether Trump putting pressure on an FBI director to curtail an investigation into an administration official who served as one of his key campaign surrogates would be as innocuous as he insists it is. Comey testified under oath that Trump asked him to “see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go,” kept contemporaneous memos detailing his conversations with Trump, and looped in other top FBI officials about them as well. Meanwhile, Giuliani’s credibility — or lack thereof — can be judged by what he said on Fox & Friends immediately following his comments about Comey and Flynn, when he falsely claimed the investigation of the Trump campaign “began with the phony [Steele] dossier.” Trump and his legal team have relentlessly pushed this brazen lie. As ThinkProgress detailed last week, the FBI’s investigation into the Trump campaign did not begin with the Steele dossier. It actually started in July 2016, when WikiLeaks published emails hacked from the Democratic National Committee. That prompted an Australian diplomat to come forward and report that a Trump campaign adviser, George Papadopoulos, bragged to him months earlier about having advanced knowledge that Russia “had political dirt on Hillary Clinton.”