Hello and welcome to the panty party a podcast celebrating Innovation food and life in the health and well-being Street where your today on episode 2 we have now roxton's one of our University. I went through the Bachelor of nutrition science with her and therefore you went through part ofI agree with her. Yeah, we all started together. We were all in the same cohort cohort for the first two years and then we split up and you guys were together for the last year of your degree. Yeah, and actually recently listened back to this episode just to get a refresher because it's been a little while since we recorded it and and I was honestly so Happy with what we talked about. I think it reflects rocks really well as a person and shows a really well-rounded snapshot of her attitude towards life and work. And also I think it really displays her drive and a passion for want of a better word about what she does and the fact that she wants to do everything to the best of her ability. Most also acknowledging. Hey boundaries, and yeah, Joe Health. Yeah things. Yeah, I love this episode. It was so much fun to record and like I think in like comparing it to some of the other conversations we've had rocks is a very dear friend to both of us and she's always been I think just because she's like a couple of years older than us. Not not saying that she's like old but like because she's a little bit further ahead of us in life. Yeah, but still at a similar period going through uni and everything everything that she's always done. I've just felt like she was really put together and very Torching with everything that she does. So I think this conversation is really nice because we kind of broke down a lot of that and like sort of worked through it together my there like one thing that I always think about going back to this episode was how nice it was to think about food industry as a part of the bigger Public Health picture and a part of like our industry and how everything works together and I think it's really nice that rocks has been able to kind of like grasp that and allow that to drive her because I think a lot of people in dietetics are like of food industry like blue, you know. Yeah, which is something that we actually do talk about is that kind of constant berating that some food industry dietitians may receive and I think we touch on that a lot and have a really good discussion about it. So yes, I found it. Very interesting to listen to yeah, just say me too. I loved it. Yes before we jump into the episode we Just need to let you guys know that we made a little mistake in the first episode. But do you wanna explain? Yeah. Yeah. So I think in the first episode basically we're at a point where we were sorting out our website and how everything was going to work and we really value full transparency here at the pantry party because these are the conversations about having and we really want to be as real as possible with everyone. We don't want to make out like we're living this dream life where we get to do this podcast. A stand it's great. But it is great that we get to do this podcast, but it is a lot of work on our end. So I think in the last episode we said that we were going to be doing like a membership type system which we did look into and because we're using it through Squarespace. It's going to be very expensive for us to fund just the version of the website that we need in order to be make that viable and the cost just isn't going to add up so we've decided instead to do. Through patreon a couple of Tears. We actually don't know at this point recording this exactly what it is, but all the details will be on our website and on patreon so we'll put the link in the show notes and you can head over there. If you would like to support us with any anything would be much they appreciated or you can message us directly and we can chat about other options. If you do want to try and support us another way your sponsor an episode if you're a business or company. Yes and all our contact details. Al's both personal and through the pantry Party website Gmail all of that that's in the show notes as well. So even if you just want to chat even if it is drop us a line, feel free to send us an email or message us on Instagram. We're pretty active. I like yeah, we're always around these days love a girl. I mean that's what we're here to do. So, yeah any feedback or comments are always very very welcome, and we'd love to hear. All of your thoughts as well as us because we've done so much talking. Yeah, and we'd love to hear if you guys actually got anything out of our first rambley episode. I think Roxanne's is a bit more defined a bit more. Yeah. What's the word cohesive? So yes, I don't think the first episode wasn't is telling of what the rest of the season is going to be. So sorry if you enjoyed it all so I'm glad that you enjoyed this video, but from here on out there episodes are a bit more. Strawberryland instruction. That's the word. Yeah, very negative about it. Yes. So without further Ado, this is our episode with Roxanne tan So to start off the party and we have some quick fire questions to ask you so don't straighten. The first one is what are your three Pantry Staples? It will have to be peanut butter noodles and bread flour. All right, what kind of knows that's a broad all sorts of all sorts of noodles noodles, like makes life so much better true. It's yeah, very nice. I think we've had Flower ever know that's a good one because you can still use it for other things. Yeah. Yeah, like there's a certain kind of you know, like the good bread flours good like yeah, and I have this cheapest. No no and the reason why is because like making bread is my son of modern day yoga. It's sort of my meditation because you really get back to sort of hand making stuff it sort of lie silent protest against 21st century fast-paced life. I love it. Yeah. So do you slow down? Make bread nice. Well, I think that you've already answered question to which is what's your go-to self-care strategy making making breads. Is there any other things that stand out to you is like taking time out and looking up looking after yourself though. Yeah, so that would probably be that me time. We were talking about allowing time to enjoy yourself and to reflect by yourself. And yeah, just that that time that you spend distressing and taking care of you. What is your favorite go-to party dish by it to think long and hard about this one is probably my most recent given my poor memory. So it's Bao buns with sticky pork or beef ribs. Yeah. How do you make your ribs? Do you slow cook them or dislike them and the Bao buns I get my partner gray to make them. So he was rolling out all these little bow buns and they're all little bit distorted and misshapen, but it adds. Rusty stick love it. Nice. What's the most memorable party that you've thrown or attended? Best event? Probably any water balloon party that I threw the kids wake up really early fill up a hundreds of water balloons and then it would open up the half-and-half. This Full House water balloon party was up here like the back, you know in Malaysia, so we had like a fully non-carpeted like everything was child everything. Was non-water damageable. Yeah, and yeah, just had those water balloons. Are you amazing? Yeah, and what are you currently in to podcasts tedx and probably have been for the last probably 24 months or so. I probably listen to more than 300 or 400 podcasts or tedx talks because I'm that intense with what I do anyone for a time for that. Holy view my current thing. Have you got a favorite each? Hmm? Yes, I do podcast is probably Modern Love or terrible things for asking so they generally go into the concepts of human psyche why people behave the way they behave or things like people stories of resilience and experiences. So I really like to listen to them because I think the challenge you as an individual to grow. Yeah, that's alrighty. Well, I guess we should get into the bulk of the episode. But before we do, do you mind introducing yourself telling us a little bit about what you do where you like your journey to where you are now, basically, yeah, so my name is Roxanne tan. I'm a food industry nutritionist. That's implied Australia. So simple Australia does Brands like John Wes Legos bird's eye and agile and what do I do on a day-to-day? Basis? Was that the question? Yeah, or just like, how you Ended up in this role how you got there? Yeah. So how I ended up there was a week before my final exam was hurt when I got the role. So I was applying during my final exams and I always knew I wanted to work in food industry, but when this opportunity came up, I just thought why not let's just go for it. And next thing you knew I sort of landed up in some pot. Yeah, so it was a like a timing. I think that led me to Simplot but what I do on a date Today basis various a lot. So in a food industry role you probably think food Rex and compliance and stuff like that. And yes that's definitely part of the job. But a lot of it's also extremely as projects. So things like working on recipe books nutrition insights from the leading papers that are coming up from global nutrition research throughout the world or what's trending at the moment to have things like nutrition through marketing cleanse validation and even Development it's nice and spicy it. All right. Well done. I guess that kind of tough nicely interns because our first question was so you completed a bachelor of Commerce and then a bachelor of nutrition science, which is our lives and I met you and do you mind talking a bit about I guess what you majored in Commerce and why you didn't follow I think you've mentioned before is that typical Commerce par accounting? The grad way and shifted into nutrition and how the two of kind of modern together nicely in terms of looking at Trends and stuff in your current role. Yeah, so I probably realized or knew very early on that. I had a love for nutrition and food as early as my high school days, but to be honest my parents did deter me from nutrition telling me Herring stories of how difficult it was to get a job. So I follow it through on a more quote on quote stable job or job. Which was into accounting and finance and commerce and through that Commerce degree did things like economics marketing Finance? So during that degree halfway during that degree. I thought to myself life is too short to not follow through with what you really want to be doing sure. I could be doing accounting and finance but it's not what really really makes me tick. It's not you know, you don't go. Woo a kantian whereas, you know when you see pretty white mmmm Food. Yeah. Yeah, so I think halfway during it. I thought I'm gonna I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna go for it. But I was already two years into my Commerce degree. So I thought I'm going to finish this Commerce degree because I know that it is very transferable in terms of skills in terms of knowledge in terms of how businesses work, which of course then came in handy when I came into food industry. I think it's like great that you've been able to give yourself in as a nutritionist that edge in having that. Greyhound do you think the in your current role? That has kind of really helped you thrive like in like having both of those degrees Yeah, so I'll be completely honest but knowing again, it's contentious the Commerce degree has helped me but only because I've also had a very strong business mindset from the very very GetGo. So it's hard to save. It's my Commerce degree all that business mind itself. So it's definitely helped me understand in terms of how businesses run what things business. Have to deal with from a financial profit perspective how the economy Works things like that. But in saying that I also know a lot of very successful nutritionist and dietitians that work in the food industry that have had no Commerce training but have had learned on the job and Thrive so I don't think it's essential but it gave me an edge from the start if that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. And do you think that your nutrition degree would have if you the only done that prepared you well enough for what you're currently doing. Probably not. I think as a nutrition student wanting to go into food industry. You have to be selective in what you then pursue outside your nutrition degree. So if you're interested in food industry, you might look into things like what are the trends in that food companies are into what are the new product development at starting to roll on the shelves. How does that all work? So I think I'm just a nutrition degree alone. Probably would have not been able to set you up. As a student, I think it's that stuff that you seek out that knowledge that you learn by yourself, but it doesn't have to be through a formal degree. Yeah thing that comes with any job as well. So you've got to be specifically fit industry. For example, if you're not paying attention to what's actually happening in the market and you're focused on your biochemistry in your basic physiology. That's a bad thing, but it doesn't translate well because it shows forgive me if I'm wrong, but you don't have that whole round of View of how the food industry is actually functioning of that make sense. Like you've got to make it a drive yourself to research that. Yeah, exactly. Right and also beyond that is that everything that you do even in a nutrition role at food company has to ultimately Drive the overall business objective. So all businesses run to one feed people and also to make a profit. So ultimately whatever you do from a nutrition perspective has some how roll up into that bigger picture. So if you understand, how that bigger picture works then you're more able to fine-tune the things you do as a nutrition team or nutritionists as an initiative in the company to help drive that for the business and do you find well, I guess there's a bit of a misconception sometimes about nutritionists and dietitians working in the food industry and Almost like they're seeing is Playing devil's advocate in a way do find that an issue with your work. Do you find that Health isn't always the Forefront of what you're doing that sort of like that that sort of space. I guess never did that very well. But anyway, I think you did a great job, but maybe I'm probably going to put this one back on you guys if you think about the stigma. Of working in food is food industry. What words pop in your mind? I think for me because I did or food industry placement. I don't see it in a certain way. Like I understand it plays a role and that look for me and my placement was food rape was purely food reg looking at nutrition information panels. So I suppose to me again Health wasn't at the Forefront. It was definitely more of almost at legal compliance side, but that didn't necessarily mean it was a bad thing like to me it was like with look at that nutrition information pedal and go What Claims can we make off this come and go back to p d and T and say can we manipulate a product to increase its protein content by this much and therefore it can be a seen as a source of protein and that can be translated to the public as you know, there is a source of protein like that's a very overall picture but I've never I don't think I felt that it was an issue, but I think coming out of uni, I've seen it there's a bit of contrast I guess. And I think like for me doing not doing a nutrition degree doing a nutrition and dietetics degree. Yeah food, like industry was never shown to me as an option. And I think that's telling itself in like you're a dietitian. That's not your job, which is fine. I think like it's a great position for a nutritionist to be and if that's you know, that's what you're trying to do and we are into a certain capacity as well. But just the way that the courses and things are structured. I wasn't really like I never it never even crossed my mind to enter food industry and then people like you guys were doing these place inside. That's really cool that you're having this impact. Yeah, but I don't really feel like my great would have prepared me at all for that industry. Yeah, which I think is like, yeah telling itself of the way that it's just not even an option. Yeah a dietitian guy. Yeah. It's not health-related kind of space around it but not specifically set. Yeah, so by association that it therefore becomes less positive. Yeah. Because you're not promoted to do that role. So some words are probably heard around working in the food industry a probably a very polarizing words sell out is probably one or slave to big business or not a true nutritionist or dietitian and I disagree with all of that. I'm sure for the very GetGo because if somebody asks, what's the ultimate goal of nutritionist and dietitians all of us what the ultimate goal is to improve nutritional? Tight right no matter what right? Hell yeah. Hell yeah, right see it and one way to do that is through improving food supply. Yeah, and what better way to do that than to be in those companies improving the food supply. So you firsthand see exactly what it takes from The Growers to the manufacturers the factory hands to the product development people to the logistic teams, even the man of love and hard work. It takes to go into that food and ultimately how how you can have an impact within that company to improve that food. So I think ultimately we are all on the same side and definitely yeah, I think it's a bit of a shame that there's been a little bit of a you versus me mentality. I still think there's a good thing about having Public Health people push for good Outcast because again, we need them to keep us accountable But ultimately food industry nutritionists and dietitians are hired to keep the company accountable and nutrition and corporate responsibility. Ability and I think it is almost like actually put your boss came in and talked to us at one point and said that it almost is a public health role. You're you're influencing the way that people are eating like you said and it's just without them knowing yes changing the way that they're consuming food. And if you can reduce something, I think her example was salt in some chips and crackers or something that that can affect the lives of so many people and therefore, you know, it's like small steps but in the end it can really improve. Prove the health of the public. Yes, I think is a great way of looking at yeah. So for example, some pot nutrition strategies to improve a hundred thousand tons of product that feeds a lot of people. Yeah, so by improving that volume of products you again doing the health by stuff like he was saying bran. It's reducing it without people knowing is so I think ultimately it may not necessarily seem like a glamorous job, but it actually really is it's really Exciting place to work. I think you really have a really big impact review if you know what to do. And also then you get exposure to the things like marketing nutrition through marketing and what can you do? What shouldn't you do is so there's always going to be a case of Ethics. What are you comfortable doing? And what are you not but I think if you hold yourself to a high regard or you keep your ethics strong then working in food industry is a really great place to be. Yeah. And I think like just reflecting on it from my standpoint in terms of working one-on-one with clients and things pit having people like you working in those Industries gives me the reassurance that I can recommend that product for example without having any affiliation with the brand knowing that there's thought that's gone into it and it makes navigating that consumers decisions a little bit easier, which we don't we don't really think about when we're talking to someone about food. But if you know that you're in an environment that's safe and effective and he's going to give them good nutritional options that's going to make it a lot easier for the client to kind of improve their own health at an individual level. But then also at a population level because that's your food supply. Yeah. So it makes it like without directly working together. It is all intertwined. Yeah, and the way that yeah we practice that's a really good point too because again, I think original before I started working food industry. I had a very Purest method of cooking and eating and I think part of that is being a millennial flying into that trend of you know, wholesome living farmers markets doing things that's natural as you can wearing linen having canvas bags and I still probably have and do a lot of those but in terms of the sense that a lot of people also it's not that's not achievable for a lot of people. Yeah. And in reality the purest lifestyle is probably applies to a very small Percentage of the population that's very and it we had conversations off Mike about this but its controversial but it's quite elitist. Yeah. It's only a like you say a subset of the population that can achieve that and you've got you've got to be in quite a privileged position to be able to be in a space to think about that. Let alone actually do it. So if you can sort of come down the back end and help improve that sort of stuff. To apply to a larger population level you're essentially making again those small steps doing a lot of little things in perfectly to add up to making it perfect. Basically. Yeah being a nutritionist and being a millennial. I think it's hard not to sometimes buy into that lifestyle because that's what people expect us to portray. Yes. Sometimes I think but yeah, I think there's a place where every food it's just frequency and knowing how to interact with those Foods Mmm Yeah. It makes I think yeah just reflecting on From a consumer what you just makes it so much easier to like access good food. Yes, because you know, that's all what we really want from for our clients and for our populations. So, you know, obviously that that's necessary job and needs to like work needs to be done. So, yeah, I think it's awesome that we can kind of work collaborative collaboratively in that way without actually directly working together. Yeah, but all those little bits of the puzzle I get that fit into these larger picture that is harder to improve. People's Health which is a complex complex issue only exactly and like I think something that is a big conversation is just food access in general and if people are going to supermarket which were often painted in a certain sort of light not necessarily positive if you can influence that chain and how that product sit on the shelves then I think you've captured a very large audiences Health personally. I think it's really important. Yeah, and that's also in If at home space so outside in supermarkets at the whole part of food industry that works in meals outside home so meal that you would eat at a hotel or a restaurant like the beautiful brunch. We were having this morning their food that's food industry behind all those selling the raw ingredients or half prepaid or whatever. It is food to those places. Then that gets serve back to you when you finally eat it at the Restaurant level. So that's this whole side of food industry that people have a demon realize this out there. There's a giant opportunity first improve. Do you find that frustrating that it's I guess it was sort of talking about that misconception. I guess at the food industry. Do you find it frustrating that people might underestimate your role and the power of the food industry in a positive way not in a capitalist way. Yeah. Yeah, I think not so much. I'm quietly happy knowing what I do makes an impact and the and yes there needs to be work on helping people understand what it is the full extent of what we do. We don't just reduce salt. And reduce sugar that's not all what we do. We look to help Foods retain the most nutritional value once it gets picked and harvest it all the way down to being frozen or packed or can whatever it is. We help it get to where it needs to be. So as the whole bigger picture of what we do and again in Food Service, it's like making foods that are suitable for schools or universities that comply by guidelines things like that as a whole bunch of things that we we do do that people don't realize I'm secretly happy and myself knowing that I do those things and it's very stimulating to be able to be exposed to so many elements of food in different settings. But yeah, I think there is work to be done. So obviously in your role it's a huge benefit that you are a nutritionist but are there other people working around you that are not qualified in nutrition in a similar role or do you have to be a nutritionist or dietitian to be doing what you're doing in my role? Yes, but it's interesting because both nutritionists our dietitians can do that role equally alike because we're all trained in nutrition science and also have done components of Public Health degrees. So we understand how food is made or Foods. Stems and how to nutritionally improve foods. But yeah, so it has that flexibility of being either nutritionist or dietitian. What why you didn't do dietetics. Yeah. Nice. I always knew I wanted to work in the food industry. And because I saw how many people I could impact by working in that role personally, the one-on-one consultations doesn't suit my personality. So I was automatically inclined or lean towards the bigger picture thinking which is food industry. So I never wanted to do it. But yeah, so it's really interesting because I was always off it to do dietetics - it's almost seen like see. In the industry in the department, even as the natural progression you do nutrition degree. Then you go on to do dietetics Euro dietitian now and that's almost that's what makes you the expert in New York and was italic qualification. There's almost a stigma around staying a nutritionist because I think it comes down to for me personally. It comes down to the regulation around the title dietitian and nutritionist like you can kind of do a lot less and call yourself a nutritionist but being a registered nutritionist and having that degree behind you. You is so valuable and it's equal in its own right to die tedx, but it's not seen as that. Yeah, so I didn't do dietetics because I thought to myself I'm don't want to work in clinical. I don't want to go down that path. So why would I waste my time doing something? That won't serve me in the career path? I have chosen. Yeah. So I agree with you there definitely is a hierarchy where dietetics is a A qualification that nutrition is if you want to do those jobs. However, if you're working in public health or food industry, I still think that nutritionist and dietitians do the same job therefore. Why would I spend an extra year of my time doing a dietetics degree when I don't need that career skills to me. I think there there is this disjoint between first of all, why are we old funnel neck funnel next bottlenecked collect funneled by note into doing a dietetics degree shouldn't they be more of a question of You can do this in nutrition as a field and to do these things. You need to be a dietitian to do these things. You can be a nutritional. Yeah and really pull apart those roles. Well, so people don't just go down the dietetics route and then realize their pigeonholed into something clinical. Yeah. Yeah, and I was going to say like the degree that you did both of you did equips you much better to work in food industry than the degree that I did just keep touching on we said before like I had no experience with food industry I didn't Have any sort of yeah, as I said, no, there wasn't it wasn't presented as an option to me. But the way that you guys would given placement in that area and a lot more kind of background knowledge for it. That would have much better equipped you for your job. Then my degree did yeah, which isn't a bad thing because obviously we're working in very different areas. But like it's just nice that you've been able to find that place but there's still such a stigma around the term nutritionist. Yeah. Yeah, so the question then falls back on you guys. Really? What do you think about again you Liza you were saying about dietitians and nutritionists and registered nutritionist. Do you think there is a hierarchy or and who imposes that hierarchy I think it comes from it's hard to put your finger on it because it's sort of a societal thing but within the nutrition industry, so because as a dietitian you're registered with the DEA a you're an APD You know, you've met this set of Standards you're credited. I think that gives dietitians a certain. Yeah, like that's what I am. This is what I do and you have to fight for that role because in society people aren't aware of what a dietitian like from just from my personal experience. They don't know what a dietitian does and so we're constantly having to sort of set ourselves a side and above other people who are qualified in nutrition not terms of saying I'm better than a nutritionist but he is my specific skill set. And here's what I'm qualified to do where a nutritionist is not on the flip side as I just said, you're so much more qualified to work in food industry than I am. So, you know, I don't think that should be a hierarchy but they're in especially in the nutrition industry itself its kind of seen as this way and then I think that as well translates into dietetics at a like a smaller level in the Action that clinical nutrition working in a hospital setting is the gold standard in which we've talked about endlessly this podcast because it's not right for everyone and there's hardly any jobs in that area. So like if we can kind of take a step back and look at it from you know, we can work together and we're just as valuable to society and useful as each other. Why wouldn't we like, why do we need to see ourselves as more? Less yeah, it's just silly. But yeah, and I think in terms of looking at nutritionist as in the term nutritionist and registered being registered and having a degree because there's very little regulation around that term it's hard for especially nutritious people like yourself to put yourself apart from people who haven't done that degree. Yeah, and so we're constantly both in both Industries having to fight for our title because The bodies the represent us a perhaps not quite there yet in terms of communicating to the public what we're qualified to do and what our roles are. Mmm. I don't know if that kind of so some of that is imposed you're saying by ourselves. Yeah an attempt to make a roll or to elevate our own field. We have separated into levels and dietitian as one of those levels and nutritionist is one of those levels but When a both are qualified, we actually like you said work in different areas of the food system towards the same goal. So that's definitely one is not better than the other. It's just different. Yes. Yeah, and so for the listener the main difference between a nutritionist and a dietitian is that a dietitian has the clinical training to apply nutrition science in a clinical setting so applying it to an individual or to a specific population and coming up with specific. Cific advice that will allow that person or population to improve their nutritional status. It's more likely it's looking at it more. Clinically whereas a nutritionist is qualified in nutrition science and they're taught basically to see the bigger picture. And so that's why I nutrition is much more suited to food industry where they're influencing things at a they're looking at the food. We're looking at the person basically that's a great distinction. I think it's that we have that skill fit. I think the AA call it dietary counseling like dietary therapy is essentially what the waiting that they've used and I think there's this Association that that's somehow better because it's one-on-one. Yeah, personable skills the whole lot that comes with that but that I think it's an equal playing field. I don't think it's it might be more translatable to the person who needs it exactly. But what about the people who don't or can't afford that access or they haven't even thought about it. They don't know what a dietitian is like, it's great that we're all on the same level and that nutritionist can also play a role but just in a different way. Yeah and like You and your role as a nutritionist, you're never going to need that skill of nutritional like dietary counseling. No because it's you're never going to use it. And so why bother spending that extra money on a master's degree just to do the same role. Yeah and perhaps not as effectively because you've not had that food industry placement. Yeah. So yeah, I think it's definitely worth. For The Listener thinking about the value that you personally place on like titles in this industry because we all have our role to play and we're all working towards the same goal. So if you hadn't known that you want it to go into food industry. Would you have thought about doing the Masters? Because I know for people that I met through uni with they weren't sure and myself included in what I wanted to do. I was quite young I knew that I wanted to work in nutrition, but I wasn't sure where so I did the math. Is to get myself into more debt and skill set just in case it was literally just a back-up plan in case I figured that I did want to do I didn't want to go and study another 15 years or whatever. It was. Do you think had you not yet had you not only want to do food industry. Would you have done the Masters? I think yes. Yeah just because for the extra versatility of the degree and like you said just an extra year and a half would then allow me to do so many other things. If I hadn't had known and if I wasn't sure I would have done the deities degree yet. However again with my my sub set of skills in Commerce and nutrition it was already pretty sure yeah, and I thought if I didn't end up working in nutrition, they're all other areas. I could Branch out into in the commercial world that could still help me apply nutrition in a broad sense. So luckily I was sure about your right if I wasn't sure I would have probably have picked the Master's Degree as well, but even Is again speaking anecdotally friends who didn't know what they wanted to do and finished after nutrition science have ended up in the food industry. No laughing it. Like they just sort of took what opportunities came to them and they've stumbled into an area that I've loved and it's not by planning or any force or anything but it's just something that's happened. And I think this house is on a whole different conversation, but it's that there's so much pressure to plan and have the perfect career but sometimes we forget those serendipitous. Moments of just stumbling into something can be just as rewarding in your career as planning. It can be for others. Yeah, I agree. You have to be very flexible. Especially this day and age is it's pretty competitive and hard to get a job and a full-time stable one at that. So I think the more that we then realize that yeah, I'm going to try different things and I might enjoy it. Is it probably the way to go these days? Mmm? Yeah, and I mean just on a side note, like of course the Unis going to prompt you to do your Masters because it's more money for them. Yeah, like it just makes sense. Right? And that's why I think people forget that yes universities are great social experience, but in the end it's a business as well. Yeah, they want your money and that's not it's just the way that the world is gone. It's not something that we can fix and there is definitely that pressure to have higher education for a job. But at the same time you've got to take that step back and go sometime people didn't do them asked is because they're like, that's a lot of Money that I don't feel comfortable paying back later on and that's totally fine. That's something that people don't often consider where a lot of the people who go into the nutrition and dietetics areas are quite privileged and are able to go to university can afford to stay out of home and do a cause but that's not the case for everyone. So you've got to step back and think about that big a live picture as well. Not just Korea. Mmm. Well said, yeah and I mean looking at it in terms of Whether that is going to get you a good career, like you've got a great career and you happen to like, you know, like in comparison to where I'm working at the moment. You're much more established in your role. And your you're doing really well for yourself. And I've kind of had that realization post graduating that maybe what I've done not that it was wrong for me and I'm like, I feel like dietetics perfectly suited to me but that I've kind of had to take a back route in my own way to sort of get to where I can. Myself being later on but you know, you've landed yourself a great job and you're doing well at it. So why bother, you know wasting an extra year and a half studying something you're not going to use. Yeah. So like we've talked about all we've mentioned about I guess that involving self-care and involving work-life balance that you've kind of had that's naturally and flowed throughout University and your job now, Do you think that's changed I suppose more than we've talked about in terms of that self-care stuff. And how does that mirror with sort of what you're like, it's cool like different stages of your life. I suppose. Yeah. Okay. So this can we several parts of that question? Thank you. We're going a while back. So probably about 10 years ago when I was in high school, I didn't probably have a very good self-care routine. I think it was And the time I think it was it was just when self-care with sound to become a thing so it wasn't well known back there. It's or something right or no and you're so young and so absorbed into how to do well with school how to fit in with your friendship groups. I don't think you take time to recognize the uniqueness of you as an individual. You look more to blend in and how to be cool as a already realized concept as opposed to investigating the notion of of your true self and how that special and why people would then want to hang out with you so over time how that's evolved was. I guess I recognized a need to know who I was first and to back away from what people were saying that you should be and to to self explore and when I start up to self explore then I realized the importance of spending time with myself for that because you you don't just learn about Self once and then you close the book. It's sort of an evolving thing. Yeah, I think you've changed so much again. We were talking about that before but you changed so much so you constantly have to look into yourself and ask yourself. Sometimes those questions 10 20 times in the span of years just to make sure that those things haven't changed your values haven't changed what you want is probably different over that time from what you were when you were in high school to what you are ordering University to what you want as As an adult working. So I think it's just rammed up for me the importance of that. So I spend more and more time these days reflecting and being with myself for that reason. And do you think there was a point where it was like a switch that flicked in terms of Baptists became a thing that you did or was it sort of more of a process of you just began enjoying that time by yourself and It's Beginning doing it more and more and then that became a priority what was that I guess Journey kind of like that Journey probably came from a place of what is true happiness stupid. Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm taking this to that level but again coming from the history that I've come from having a long very long standing with depression for over probably 10 years to me. It always intrigued me the notion of how to truly be happy. So I think When I wondered what makes one person happy then I realized it's not a formula that you apply to every person's life and that you will all achieve our Venus What happiness means? Everybody is so unique and so different and takes a lot of time to procure and to really nail down what makes one person happy and another person happy. Yes. I think that's what it came from. Just the need to make sure that Julie I was a really really strong place then it's difficult being a woman being a young woman and 21st century. So really understanding the true value of women female empowerment or empowering the youth for example, I know you could be young you can be female but still really have some really strong ideas really know yourself really. Well you really confident in what you do? So I think that all tied into becoming an Adult really. How did you how did you get to the point where you realize that this is what you needed in yourself to be happy. Mmm. How do I get yeah, how do I get to that point? That's such a strange question sometimes because I think for me was getting better or the alternative was Bleak. So I had already spoiled to to the lowest of low points. So for me it was there was only one way up. Yeah, so and then I started to explore those things like those Notions like true happiness vulnerability creativity women Powerman and that is Became this first for learning like this. You just get so absorbed into wanting to know more and what do other people go through in their lives because everybody experiences their own profound Journeys to self-identity. And how was that father people? So I think I think like you said, it was just like a Snowball Effect one thing led to another and I just wanted to know more and more and more and I'm just such a curious creature that I think. It led to this love for for human. Connectivity Yeah, Mmm Yeah, and we talked a bit about it off here. But like it's really nice that you've kind of come to this place that you're now feeling not necessarily that it's through your current work. Yeah, but that you're motivated to help other people with see that mmm because like I mean for me as well throughout high school and you know even early in uni, you're not really giving that kind of support in terms of All development and really like yes, we talked reflect reflective practice, but not necessarily in the sense of what's actually best for us. And so I think a lot of us have this kind of moment not necessarily like a Breaking Point, you know, suddenly you realize but like over time as we age you kind of realize that You've got so much more potential, which is really nice. Yeah, and I think that's good that you've been able to recognize that but still also be very effective in the roles that you've done in the projects that you've worked on. Yeah, but it kind of just drives you anything. But yeah, I think it does and a part of that is probably confidence. Mmm. So as you learn more about yourself and you get older like you were saying you start to solidify who you are. So who ran a fee is who like that? Yes, you know you really You had a better understanding and then when that comes confidence and when you're confident in what you put out into the world is so much better received because people can they believe you when you say you can do something because you're confident in yourself. So I think that helps in any setting Private Practice food industry because you're working against people that are older than you and have years and years and years of experience. And yes, you always have to be humble and still learn from them. But you saw the need that element of I know what I'm doing. I'm confident that I've done the degree I needed to I've got the skills. I needed to announce about how to fine-tune that and learn through doing. Yeah. Well, that's really nice. I'm glad that you've been able to have that journey and get to that point because it I think really valuable for The Listener to hear that because it's a path that we all have to go on but no one's Journey looks the same as each other as you know, like we're all exposed to different stimuli and different things that cause the way that we think and the way that we act so it's nice to know that that's normal to kind of have to have that growth and then is undervalued as well in terms of how it can develop like you said across so many other areas of life. It's not just you Korea it. It's the progresses you as a person and the way that you interact with other people and the way that you are able to form relationships that are meaningful because you know what's meaningful to you. It's that sort of mutual understanding of where that sits in the world and where that sits with you as well. I think yeah. Can I ask what you both think is the mental health state of New graduates of nutrition and dietetics graduates. Like what do you think? It's so bad? Yeah, and I think in dietetics, especially actually probably more so Nutrition science. There's just not really the support there in terms of Like that Innovative you need to go out and do what you want to do. There's kind of this expectation you graduate you go and do what you're sort of told to do which is really damaging because it's top secret spy and I want to do it. Yeah, exactly and it felt like I think that's what this podcast was born out of was that you've got 200 plus graduates for dietetics alone. I can't imagine how many nutrition graduates they were there are and You literally you've got you've had a whole degree planned out for you and you've gotten everything thought about you've got vague ideas of what you want to do. Then you just let out into the world and it's like the stories that we were told at the end of my degree. Anyway was the master story was that they were working in retail for the next year because they can't find a job and like that was just sort of seen as that was what was going to happen. And yes that may be the case, but you're not I think mentally, yes, you can prepare yourself for it. But for me, especially it home after I finished and after I was working at a cafe for six months going I've got a master's degree and I'm still making coffee for people which in itself to me. I needed that six months off and it was very to me making coffee or super therapeutic, but it's not the same for everybody and it's not something that gives me. Fulfillment in the way the working in my area that I want to work in dance. Hmm and I can speak for a lot of people that they get down in the dumps for want of a better term after finishing no matter if they did nutrition science or dietetics and sometimes that can happen a couple of years after they're finished what happened straight away. It's a big we've talked a lot about existentialist crisis. It's it's a big mental battle because you've got to consider the fact that you're in x amount of debt that you also want a job just to keep your life like living standards, but you also want to do something in the area that you're trained in and you kind of got to find some sort of Middle Ground between the three because you know that for your own mental health, you want to work in the area that you want to work in that you trained in you can't always it sort of this constant Battle of what was the point of going to UNI for four and a half years if I'm not going to I don't think that are yeah and I think for me like there was a big moment of I have all of these ideas and all this education behind me. It is no job in existence that fits what I want to do and how I can see myself having the best possible outcome in terms of social change and like my my impact. So I think it's really disheartening as a new grad to kind of it's like cool we're done. Now what yeah and then to be told he's the gold standard of clinical nutrition or whatever, you know, here's what a dietitian or nutritionist does, but I don't feel like That's hitting our full potential. We have so much more behind us than that in terms of our education around the social determinants of health and Industry for you guys, but we're not really told how to integrate that into our roles and I think wherever like a lot of us, wherever we end up we end up being able to find a way to bring our personal beliefs into it, but it's really hard to navigate which is kind of sad. So once you advise them to new grads, I think to me the best advice. I was just take a break. Hmm. I'm really really grateful that I took six months off and to be fair. I'm in a very privileged position where I was able to live at home and didn't have to pay rent or pay bills and not so and when I say I took six months off I still worked basically full-time any caffeine didn't it? Well, I'm hiring in things but I just wasn't doing something you want to say something about. Yeah, because I'd been at school since prank like I've been learning since prank, but it really took me that six months to appreciate how Much. I really enjoyed learning like you said a couple of times in really? Reflect on where I wanted to go with my career. I think it's very undervalued. I think I keep saying that in this podcast like the I generally think some of these things are that that point of self-reflection like you said can give you so many more insights into what you want to do and how you want to work and how you want the rest of your life to pan out then if you just keep churning through a system that you've been told to churn through. Yeah, and like it doesn't have to happen straight away like the I mean same for me like I took my current job because I saw it as Except a step sideways in terms of as learning the admin side of Private Practice so that I could apply it laid down the track if I chose to go out on my own but I've still got in so much. It's a very rewarding job to do even though it's like a support role. It's not anything, you know, I'm not directly influencing patients behavior and stuff, but I think it's really important to notice the value of having that moment of stepping away from the industry having a bit of self-reflection and being able to then learn from that and decide what you want to do and how you're going to get there. What would you say because I suppose you've had a bit of an atypical a typical Journey. Yeah, so I haven't stopped since prep. I've had I had a week in between my final exams and my Simplot job. Yeah, so it was yeah it was on the go. I didn't take a break between Commerce and nutrition signs, but I think part of that was my own. Like my own craving for peace signing it to keep the ball going. I needed to know what's next how to do it. And that's just my personality at this point in time. So I need to know how to get there. What's my next step Let's do. Let's do it. Let's do it. And I think it's you know, it's sometimes a little bit unrealistic but I've been very fortunate enough to be able to make to pull that off for myself my advice to new grads it be to be creative. Like you said Liza. Sometimes we don't fit into a box we Do all these things but there's no job that marries those up for us. So like what you guys are doing with your podcasts, you know, you take what your love the things you put them together and you've test them out and you try to create new avenues for yourself and while the not might not you know, automatically make you millionaires overnight. It's waste to explore that while doing something else on the side and then and then see where that career path. Takes you on purpose at some point those things converge and you might find something really rewarding that combines those things. But yeah, it's difficult because in terms of mentorship if you're if you're going out as a new grad and there's nobody that can model that career path for you. Then you have to be a Pioneer. Yeah, it takes a lot of courage and a lot of strength and being comfortable with failing a million times. And so I think resilience is probably the biggest one don't let The idea of failure stop you from trying as a new grad. Don't be afraid for Pine for roles that you think might be related to nutrition but not fully what you might be might not be called a nutritionist or dietitian job, but, you know in corporate quality or product development or nutrition marketing or going in through that way through marketing route. Just don't be afraid to Pigeon, but don't pigeonhole yourself and don't be afraid to try new things. And be very resilient through it all so it doesn't get to you because Kate through all of this is mental health. Yeah, you uphold your mental health and what's good for you? Yeah and try new things and like you say we've had a chat off are about the fact that the careers female-dominated. I think that's pretty obvious. And I guess that the trouble you're not the trouble but the challenge of that is that often women will have kids or it can really put a stint in the length of your career, right? S as a female, which is entirely different podcast that we can talk about but I suppose as someone who has been out for a couple of years and definitely had more working experience in the two of us. How do you view The length of a nutrition career or have you been around people who have managed to sustain a nutritional Korea for an extensive amount of time and one of they've done to achieve that I guess. Yeah. I've got both sides of the coin on this one. So I've got people that I know that been working 20 25 years and food industry and have managed to sustain this amazing nutrition career that I become a nutrition manager. For example, like Kim my manager at Simplot or then you People like Jim O'Hanlon who's done lots of different things in food industry and probably has had what 15 your career. Yeah Infernus tree as well. So she's also done really really well, but then I've also seen people that have transitioned out of nutrition because again, there are limits in terms of how many nutrition jobs that they can be out there and at some point you hit a ceiling of how high you can necessarily reach, so it's up to you. Ooh them decide if you want to stay that nutrition course or if you want to maybe progress to something else that might be more rewarding in terms of career progression nutrition can be quite flat. It's often like here. You've got your grades. You've got your basic level then you put your managers. It's also pretty sort of flat. There's not much room for yet progression. Yeah. It's not many steps, especially in the more traditional roles were like hmm clinical dietetics. For example, like you go. You got a new grad job in your hospital you go through your grades. And then that's it. Yeah, like there's not really unless you're going into like managerial positions. You're not really progressing and even in that higher level position you're not Like obviously, I don't know if you're not having that much more of an impact in terms of progressing the industry. Yeah. Yes. No, I think that's fair to say I think a lot of nutrition managers would in hospitals for example would say that they don't get much patient contact. They do a lot of the admin side of things and advocating and funding and all that sort of stuff which is which is important understand that but it whether or not everyone stimulated by that and knows that that's where the clinical letter gets you I don't know if that message is out there. So I understand where you're coming from rocks in saying that it's very flat. Yeah, there is only so far you can go and where did that matches up with your personal values or not? You just have to think about that and we're not we're not told about that. I don't know and then that's why you have that lateral step but we were always talking about whether you go from the food industry to Public Health Public Health to food industry and a clinical dietetics to food industry or one of the other. There's that lateral pathway that sometimes you can jump to To add breath into your career and just to change it up for yourself to make your career of more rewarding but then I've also seen nutrition has that gone into marketing and that's been amazingly brilliant because then you learn how to Market Health to the consumers in. Yeah get into the mind of the consumers. Now how powerful is that? That's why I'm comment. I know there's a couple of people at lion who have done that like that. It just sidestepped entirely and say I don't work in dietetics anymore. I'm a marketing manager. So it's pretty pretty cool. So I think Look like again, I think don't limit yourself. So nowhere see things for what they are and if you're not comfortable with that be prepared to Veer off slightly to an unconventional path. And I think somebody said it to me beautifully somebody from HR said it but you own your career path, you have to take control of it. You can't just rely on people to promote you up the ladder or to give you a job and offer you new opportunities because that's not how it happens. You have to go out there you Have to pursue it with passion and intensity that it takes to you know, find a good fire. Yeah, and I think like that ties in really nicely to what you were saying before about knowing your personal identity. And what makes what drives you what makes you happy even if you can find a way to integrate that into your career and that can really drive you you're going to be so much better off and more effective in whatever role you're working in because you're actually passionate about the work that you're doing. So I think a lot of nutrition Korea's right now are quite rigid. They're not very flexible in terms of giving us the personal growth that we need in order to be effective. But if we can somehow Inspire that in people and they can have a really big change at their own level, whatever it is that's going to give us a better industry as a whole. Yeah. Hopefully hopefully agree. I think we've all sort of mentioned intuitions it Nothing, and if you don't have that personal dried as a nutrition practitioner or whatever wherever you're at. I think he can put a bit of a kick and how much of an impact you can make. So the moral of the story do what you like a passionate about. Yeah, you'll find a way to make it work. Yeah, it doesn't have to happen straight away. I think we're all as like our generation is very driven to be successful straight out the back but like it it's never going to be like that and you can do that with in whatever role you're working in, you know, like my current job is not what I want to be doing long term, but I still get fulfillment with it and I'm still able to integrate and use my own personal values to make it better. For me and for my kids like the people that I'm working with so I think it's important to recognize that like we might not all get to where we want to be straight away. But like we can still try and enjoy where we are. Yeah. Yeah and create your own jobs, wherever there are. No jobs be very creative with how you vent your jobs. Yeah. Yeah, very nice. Which me wrap up with sale final question. Yeah for sure. I know we've already touched on on this a little bit throughout the course the discussion today, but we always wrap up with this questions that all of our guests. So we wanted to ask you what does food mean to you. Food food is happiness to me. Seriously like a bowl of warm noodles. So I need in my life. He rocks smiling because it's cold and all I want is a full nude on noodles for the runny egg yolk and some beautiful videos than a food is happiness to me, but I think I've touched on it when I say it's it's my little Medical. Tation device again when you cook food and you interact with it whether or not it's as simple as taking a can of tuna. I'm mixing it through roast veggies or whatever or going to the extent of making your own bread. I think all of it is such a beautiful thing food is such a beautiful thing. It takes so much for food to get on our plates so much time and love needs to go on it from when you grow it. To when you cook it, too when you pack it off or whatever it is. So I think when you eat food don't just eat it realize what food means to people it's more than just functionality and it's more than just Health. It's it's happiness. It's you know, people's meaning people's things. What's up people's purpose for being I can't get it out coffee down thinking about you. Yeah food is it's more than just food. Yeah, it's more than Yeah, and I think it's really nice for you working in your role. You are now that you can see that and that is obviously a big driving factor in your career in that like you're able to recognize the importance of it. And so that is going to help you create a better food environment. Which I hopefully we can all do yeah agreed or well that's really nice sentiment and summarizes everything very well. Thank you for having us in your home. There are lots of photos coming. Yeah. Thank you for having me. Hey, what are you still doing here? The party's over. Thanks for sticking around though. And thank you so much for coming to our pantry party. Yeah. I hope you had a great time. I mean we sure did. Oh, no, don't worry about doing the dishes leave them there. Yeah, we'll come tomorrow just have unsafe. Yeah. Okay, if you really want to you can hit the link down below. It takes you to our patreon page or you know, just check out our website or Instagram share this episode right us on Apple podcast. Maybe will be new and noteworthy one day. Gotta be a hooray for me for a potty. Yeah, buddy the way go home. Yeah besides over by.
  Have you ever wondered what it’s like working in the food industry? We have a chat to food industry nutritionist and good friend, Roxanne Tan. Rox has completed her Bachelor of Nutrition Science AFTER a Bachelor of Commerce (yeah, wow right?!). She is currently working at a large food industry supplier  as a nutritionist in a role that is able to combine several of her talents and passions. In this episode, we have a chat about all things career transition, mental health, doing what's rewarding, and looking after yourself. Here’s some of the content we talked about:   The Modern Love podcast  Terrible Things for Asking podcast   Brene Brown TedX Videos - The Power of Vulnerability, Listening to Shame. General Brene Brown content   DAA nutritionist vs. dietitian: https://daa.asn.au/what-dietitans-do/dietitian-or-nutritionist/   ---  Find us at:    www.thepantryparty.org   www.instagram.com/thepantryparty   pantrypartypod@gmail.com   Liza: www.instagram.com/lizakhins ,  lizakhins.com   Bran: www.instagram.com/arebrandedlife ,  arebrandedlife.com  --- Music and editing by Ross Davidson:  www.instagram.com/rossco_davo, www.davidsonmusic.net  Artwork and graphics by Caitlin Preyser:  www.instagram.com/caitlinmadethis,  https://caitlinpreyser.myportfolio.com/ 