All right. I'm we started recording no need to record Todd talking trash Chris. You don't need to hear anything about that. I'm going to maybe be a good question ask you how does one develop the capacity to back squat 185 50 times. But if we have time you can answer that. Let me do a brief introduction for you here. Can you guys all see Chris? He's maybe on a different screen. Let me see if I can you guys should all be able to you can make him the bigger picture if you want but doesn't need much of an introduction. Chris has coached at this point dozens and dozens of games athletes. He runs aerobic capacity seminar, which I highly recommend you check out I saw him on Watt on the waves last year and learned in those three hours more than I had learned in many many. Trainings and Specialty seminars great stuff and I'm really excited to have him on here. So Chris Welcome to our Mentor Group Well, thank you. Yeah. No, thank you that what on the way is boy. What a what an experience that was, huh? It was amazing. And as you may or may not know Fern and I will be back on as well as my wife Rose and we saw that you will be on and we recommend all of you guys check it out because again, are you doing three seminars again? Do you know what you'll be doing? I don't know. I do know that they reached out and asked which coaches that I collaborate well with which I gave them Dave durani and Chad Vaughn. So I do know that they Dave and Chad both have agreed to also attend which can be really cool. Especially if I have an opportunity to collaborate with one or both of them in some type of content presentation. Be great. Yeah interviewed Austin for today's episode of went up today about one of the ways that he mentioned Dave Chad and of course, you know, the Mayhem team will be there. So you're interested in training with some of the fittest in the world. It's pretty great. You know, that was I'm glad that you brought I mean that those three one hours so they told me originally that I can do three one-hour class of but they would all be the same and you know, I always feel like And you're given those opportunities that you really should respect what you're being given and deliver to a maximal ability. And I find that that a lot of people in the early days when they're starting out even anybody in the job, you know, they get paid a certain amount of salary and after being on that job for a year or two years, even though they haven't taken on more responsibility for some reason they think that they deserve more money. Any I look at it where I get these opportunities always and I want to respect the fact that if I got an opportunity like that eight years ago, how would I treat it today? And I always look at it where I want to sit and that's what I did. I sat until those lectures were around 1:00 in the afternoon. I sat in my cabin and wrote and rehearsed and practiced content. I wanted it to be as best. It could possibly be and that's why I wrote. Three different one hour pieces because I wanted to respect the people one that were showing up at all. So let's not forget the value of this opportunity and you have to be reflective when you look at value. Well, I think that's one thing that everybody loves about you is your you know as much as you've grown within the CrossFit Community, you are one of the most humble individuals I know and it's very clear from be having been a participant there that you put the time in I don't feel remember but we were walking towards it one day and all of us were completely lost on the way because the ship was so huge, but we did find it. So I wanted to give our members the opportunity to talk to an expert such as yourself. And I asked them you should be able to see the capital as you answer the questions. I will kind of moderate and look for the next one. And if it's something you want to follow up on with that specific individual will let them come off and dive a little deeper into the questions up work for you Chris. It's great. Yeah. All right. So let's let's just start with Dave Mitchell's question Dave's on here in full uniform and looks like not not a rest in the bad guys, but sitting there. Do you change your approach to training as it gets closer to the open or if you have another event coming maybe like a sanctionable event or where the game's not for the open? No, so I definitely don't do it for the open for sanctioning of them. Beautiful. There we go. All right, Chris. Sorry about that. You still there? You are me to go ahead. So thanks rules is a whole different thing. I mean part of it is is that athletes are now looking at sanction has a differently not just necessarily about the qualification and getting a bit into the game so that they can make prize money and so in some cases athletes are peaking and tapering going into a sanctionable event and that historically hasn't been the case that athletes would do competitions as part of training and now they're breaking up the season and targeting specific events, and I see that in terms of Elite level athletes now where they have a different season than a third the games the games absolutely the games. The trigger is completely different for every athlete and it depends upon their strengths and weaknesses and how I program what makes it tough now is this new format for coaches? It's really really difficult because you know, Essence you have different tracks and different programs for every individual athlete and that's one of the reasons why I have scaled way back. I can't manage effectively athletes and continue progressing them in the direction. We both want to go unless I give them more attention and time. Great great answer. They're satisfied with that answer David. Let's go on to Catherine's question. Her question is what is one thing that we should be incorporating more into our average crossfitters programming to see the highest benefit to aerobic capacity. I think the big thing is that we need to slow people down and a lot of times in CrossFit and in classes. What we do is we focus on intensity and we're trying to drive adaptation in the direction in of Intensity, right? We're trying trying to make people stronger trying to make ask her. But in order to do that, we have to allow them a chance to recover in between those efforts, right so you could take simple movements such as weight lifting and look at five by five back squat and we're giving them a passive rest in between those five reps. And the reason is is because the focus is on the five repetitions and the low Oh that we're lifting if we knock them down to one minute in rest, then they will have to sacrifice. The number of reps, right? They won't be able to do five or they'll have to reduce the low that they're lifting in CrossFit. We cannot control the amount of recovery time that we get in workouts. And so if we're always training around passive recoveries that were truly not prepared. What we should be doing a lot more of is telling Athletes to move during recoveries at lower levels of intensities essentially creating different gears than you know pedal to the metal. Let's just rock and roll a grip and rip we should really be focusing on, you know active recoveries. Maybe the next time you get into a 5x5 back squat. Maybe what you should be doing is a three-minute 500-meter row. I liked that he talked a little bit about that on the podcast as well. And I think that's great stuff that we can utilize Jose wants to know about your Excalibur program. So the program is a partnered up with Jesse Burdick who is a really truly Best in Class in powerlifting very well-known. I met him at a training clinic at Reebok about five years ago, and I was so dazzled by Jesse Burdick and I I ended up having dinner with him that night and what was fascinating is that I was sharing my Concepts and how I program my methodologies and just how I relate workouts into performances and just the way I assess athletes Ironically in lifting. He does the exact identical thing. It was really something that was seamless and it was easy to do we communicated well So we kicked around this idea. That wouldn't it be something that if we did a study that basically said that you know, what if you're an endurance athlete and you do small doses of lifting that I actually can make you stronger, but I will also make you faster. Let's say in the movement of running likewise. I was saying wouldn't it be interesting is that if I give small doses of running to a strength-based athlete who is on a strength protocol One of the interesting is if they got stronger while incorporating a running program, and so we talked about it. I talked to CrossFit about it and possibility of doing this study which they didn't express any interest in doing it. And so then we said let's just do it ourselves. Well in any study What happens is that you're going to have to pay people to do the study and you end up potentially risking or compromising your data. So we turned around and we said, you know what? Let's charge 200 dollars a person. And what we will do is charge people so that their expectation on strength and endurance is as high as it's going to be right and what we were looking for was the data and the Improvement and we're going to release the numbers. I mean that's part of what I've always done is released the information because I believe what we're doing in the CrossFit space as a community is Leading Edge, right? We are creating a level of Fitness in a population of people that is Is extraordinary and in my opinion and so we just completed the first round we had 500 people go through. So it's a huge data point and we'll publish what strength Improvement numbers came up and what improvements came in there 400-meter time in the mile times. Very good. Robin wants to know what are your favorite running Skill Drills to add to CrossFit warm-ups to help improve athletes running technique. Wait, can you set it broke up a little there? What are your favorite running skills and drills to add to CrossFit warm-ups to help improve athletes running technique. so my number one, I'd really really I love doing things such as jump ropes beforehand and I love the idea of doing double unders or sing the lenders and then dropping the rope and going for a run interval it teaches people muscle memory the foot strike when you're jumping rope is landing on that mid foot for foot strike and you get that that muscle memory when you go into a short interval. I really like that if we took that a step further, I like the idea of throwing in a ballistic exercise into a run. So something like a holding a plate overhead and doing an overhead jumping split lunge that forces a higher level of recruitment or higher percentage recruitment of fast-twitch fibers because of the increase in force. And then I love caring that increase percentage of fast twitch fiber recruitment due to the ballistic into maybe even a sled push. Maybe what I'm doing is going into it some kind of a short time domain Sprint. It gives me a lot more value in the work out because instead of training a small percentage of fast-twitch fibers. I'm actually training a higher percentage of those fibers. I like those ideas. I like the the combination of a plyometric such as like say jumping rope into a another movement as well as a ballistic into a another movement. Keep in mind that other movement must be very similar in the movement pattern. from Mitch drills to help with mindset in workouts that are challenging. He has a few athletes that don't handle going into the pain cave very well. So this is where an athlete has to take responsibility in a workout and I always tell people that the number one thing that you must do when you look at a workout as you have to assess as an individual how much time is it going to take me to do that workout? You also must look at that one. Have that time domain and if it's longer than three minutes, we know that we don't have enough energy to take it out fast and and hang on in anything longer than three minutes. We must Pace workouts that are three minutes and longer because that's the way you know, we got to pace to maximize the consumption of are available energy. So knowing the time domain that becomes critical because it defines our strategy. The other thing that we must do is we must identify the sticking point in every workout. So there is a sticking point in every workout and what we must do is we have to prepare the body for that point so that we're not surprised and a good example of that is Julie foucher. Julie foucher was my pick to win the games in 2015 before she broke her she pulled her Achilles. She the first workout I had her do was a 404 time and she calls me afterwards and she says I want you to know I did your 400 but it took me three attempts and a shock like the three attempts to do to 400 and she told me she says well, you know, I lined up on the first one and somewhere in the middle, you know, I had a panic attack and I'm like wow a panic attack and she says it no real panic attack and I'm like, what did you do? She says I you know, I Calm down and after about 30 minutes, I warm back up again. And I did the 400. I'm like, but you said you did it three times. She's like, yeah number two. I haven't had a panic attack. And so she tells me that she did the same protocol and she you know won't calm down warm back up and finally did the third time and so I turn around and I asked her I said, so can I ask where did that panic attack occur? And she told me it occurred at 240 meters in on that. David in every workout. Like I said, there is a sticking point and if you all think about if you had to run a lap around the track as fast as you possibly can we're in that lap around the track, would you encounter that? Uh-oh moment that moment where it's like man this thing is now all the sudden it got real. Maybe it's like- thought maybe it's you know, it's it's it's frustration. It's anger, but if you could make it stick, In Point close enough to home where you can finish for me. My sticking point in the lap around the track is at 232 240 meters Julie interestingly enough hers happened at to these panic attacks happen at 240 meters. And the reason it is is because I asked her what was your game plan? And she says what do you mean? So what was your game plan and run lap and she says Chris it's just a lap around the track. Yeah, well that tells me she didn't have a plan. So imagine when she got to that sticking point and her you know, she's breathing through your ears and bloods coming down her eyes. There is a mismatch between her perceived amount of pain and her actual pain and the brain perceives that as we're in trouble and it creates a phantom fatigue hers manifested into a panic attack. You must always assess. Where that is about that's point and the magnitude of that intensity. If you don't you will underperform you see that as athletes, they just turn down the switch and they shut it down. So in every workout it is that way if you look at a 10 minute workout meal even need to know what the workout is at. What round do you feel that? It's going to be the point where if I can get past this I'm close enough to home where I can finish foremost. It's round seven and eight. If you can get through that eighth round, I know I could finish 9 and 10 four laps around the track you finished lap three, you're golden. You have to assess that point the second part of that is that if I have athletes that Elites that quit, they don't work hard. They Define their high intensity based upon prior performances. I used to do Fran and three minutes now, I do it into well what makes you think you can't do it in 90 seconds. So I will write workouts for them that forces them to go out fast in the beginning. Meaning I want you through that first round of Fran and I want it done and let's just give it time minute. If you don't we're stopping and we're going to restart we're going to do 250 meter sprints on the track. And you know what that first 50 meters better be under seven seconds or I'm stopping you and we're restarted with Julie foucher. One of the things that I did was is I broke workouts into four parts and I made part 1 2 and 4 all the same the third part I had it. It's really difficult meaning I wanted her to focus her attention when she looked at that work out and said, oh that third part that is the hardest part in this workout. I have to focus all my attention on that. But in reality, what I was doing was is I was making it so the fourth part was actually the most difficult because now she was gassed where she would have normally quit and the thing is a since part 1 and 2 are the same as for they would sit. Are at 4 and go you know what? I think I could do it because I just did it to earlier times and so I would write workouts in that way for her and it was highly effective. I pinpointed where I wanted her to focus our attention on in the work out because she wasn't good at it. I highlighted where the sticking point was. So it's from a box perspective a coaching perspective. It sounds like there's two good lessons that are one maybe when your briefing at the Whiteboard you can kind of ask your members. Hey, we're in here. Do you feel like you're going to hit that and once you get there realize you're almost done and you know, you can make it but then also secondly and maybe some things we don't often do our Get people to go we've I forget what we've called them before I learned it from Connor from Connor Murphy and they would be like you have to hit 30 calories on the assault bike in two minutes or you have to repeat it at the end. So people would go balls out at first and then you're like shit now. I'm just in recovery mode for the rest of the workout, but it's an important lesson to learn. Hey, you will survive right? I mean that's part of it. So the other so when we talk about the sticking point, there's There's two sticking points normally in every workout. The one I just mentioned is metabolic. Its energy, right and what you're saying is that at that sticking point with one lap to go in let's say a mile for time with one lap to go. What you're willing to do is go above your lactate threshold above your maximum sustainable pace for that last lap essentially you're in that Death Zone intensity, but because you're close enough to the Finish you can bring it home. The other thing is that you have a muscular sticking point as well. So if there's a 10-round workout or a 10-round workout in each round has a different movement and let's say movement number in round number two its thrusters for me. I would have to realize that I'm going to be struggling in that second round because my least favorite movement is thrusters, but if I get through that now I'm good to go and I'm only dealing with a A bollock sticking point, so there's two issues in every workout and if you don't prepare your brain for those those those sticking points you underperform. It's called a hazard score perceived exertion or perceived pain versus actual pain. That's a that's a tough lesson to get people to understand but I think it's super valuable. So let's move on to Matt's question. He wants to know your thoughts on nasal breathing, aren't we supposed to be breathing that way? So, you know, it's interesting that there's everything in life. It seems like that we get things super complicated and we bypassed the initial protocols that are the most important. So first of all, I think nasal breathing has value it without a doubt. It does have value. It just depends on when you are applying that value and your overall Fitness and whether or not it should take precedence over something else. We don't have unlimited free time. And so should that be your number one priority? I am more concerned with with athletes intercostal and diaphragm strength and muscular stamina than I am with programming in nasal breathing and Recovery through that math method most gymnasts and Lifters fail because they're their diaphragm and intercostal are the weakest muscle in the body. They just haven't trained it. And those athletes also don't have good rhythm in their breath. You know, one of the things that our brain to know is is when is that next dose of energy coming, you know, is it a random breath meaning? It's like if I am, you know hyperventilating and then a long pause breath. It needs to be consistent swimmers without a doubt. Have the best breathing Rhythm if you think about it, if I breathe on my right side every stroke then you know what my brain knows when that next dose of oxygen is coming that next dose of energy. But if it's random it will never settle my muscles because it doesn't know when the next dose of energy is coming. So training the Rhythm or the consistency of the breath that cycle of the breath. For example, I made a comment that Frazier knows if people are hyperventilating or not. He knows It by the movement of their chests. The rhythm of the breath is key. The other thing is that if we look at workouts and we're trying to breathe and nasal breathe if we talk about intensity in terms of VO2 max. You cannot get a sufficient amount of oxygen through your nose on a intensity higher than 60% of your VO2. So if we're sticking with nasal breathing the problem is that I am forcing myself to hurt real bad. Bad and training myself to go slow. And in my opinion that is not the highest and best use of an athlete's time. And so that's where I sit and I struggle with it because it has value and I practice it myself and but if I'm looking at an athlete and I'm prioritizing their strengths and weaknesses that would come way down on the list. So when you get a newer athlete, I think a lot of the coaches on here. Here get the question of okay. When do I breathe during this movement in my response is typically at some point just breathe. So do you find in like a lifting movement or butterfly pull ups that you coach people to breathe at specific times, especially at the beginner level or is it just hey get in some sort of Rhythm regardless if it's concentric or eccentric going on. So the thing is is that when the load gets heavier than movement requires you to brace you can't breathe through it. So it's mostly about awareness. So let's say that we're doing let's say we're doing 21 and thrusters and then we're about to go into a set of 21 pull-ups. Well we have to be aware of is that are we in control of our intensity or out of control of our intensity? And the breath is the tell right our Aerobic System is our oxygen. And so if we are hyperventilating in the beginning of a workout and we have you know, another 10 minutes to go then we have to be aware of that hyperventilation and awareness is critical because we either in those moments we voluntarily slow down or what happens is we see it people hunched over in their hands and their knees where they're involuntarily slow down and that's the biggest mistake you see in CrossFit is that anybody who has their hands on their knees with involuntary slow? Downs has already ruined their potential adaptation in that workout. They ruined it and why would we have athletes that are intentionally ruining or limiting their potential adaptation? It's a waste of their time. We need to train them to be aware of the breath that the breath is the tell and if you are not close enough to finishing then you better get back in control of the breast so that the muscles the muscles can settle. It's always Funny to me you see people shaking their arms out, you know, and it's because their muscles are oxygen-starved. Why don't you focus on getting back in control of your breath and then the muscles will then follow its the breathing. It's the oxygen it's the Aerobic System that is about awareness. That's the most important thing. So there are times like me 95 pounds Thruster. I cannot breathe through it's too heavy for me. So I hold my breath And I come out of those thrusters and I got to wait for a while because I am hyperventilating. Hyperventilating is a sign that your demand for oxygen is exceeding what it's applied what you can supply it's about awareness. Yeah, it's interesting. I just came from Jiu-Jitsu practiced earlier and I was telling my partner I listen to how hard you're going and I just so when you're done you're done. All right, let's done. Let's go on and Daniel's questions. You knows of your past and he said he had a lot of X Runners in class and have long time running injuries. What's a good way to reintroduce them to running painlessly, I think because a lot of them are scared they know what their body feels like. Could we get them back into running in a painless fashion rather than always just having them scale to rowing or biking or ski rigging? Yes, so that's a really a tricky thing. So I work with a lot of Masters athletes and we have to provide options for them. That is something other than running like Rich Froning. For example, you know, he has no cartilage in one of his knees. And so we have to come up with other ways to to help train that movement of running without actually running and that's one of the reasons why Rich does a lot of Then biker workouts he does a lot just as if you were riding a road bike or a mountain by climbing up a mountain you're out of the saddle and and you're in a much more upright standing posture. The other thing that's a value is is running uphill running uphill is much less stressful. So this is why they are runner in the true form are so valuable is because essentially on those two products are running uphill at around The 6% grade meaning that your stride length isn't as long you're not over-striding over reaching over extending your front foot. Your impact is also softer because you're meeting the tread in a 6% rise. So we end up incorporating a lot of that type of training the problem is it's not everybody has access to those. And so what we would typically do is have people do slow. Like intervals running up a hill for a two to three minute time domain with a slow walk jog down to the bottom. A lot of people unfortunately don't have those available to them as well. So what we'll end up doing is types of hybrid types of workouts. So for example, we will do a lot of let's say a sled Sprint short time domain and then what I'll do is I'll put them on a assault bike. Like and what they're doing is they're just mostly using legs. So I am essentially in the pushing of the sled where there's a high Force demand creating a tremendous amount of lactic acid in the legs the running muscles. And then what I'm doing is I'm using that similar movement pattern in an active recovery, but doing it on a bike. So I will do let's say a 20 second maximal effort on the sled and then what we'll do is we'll put them on the bike. And I'll do a recovery for three minutes and I get a huge amount of crossover with that value. I'll do multiple rounds one creates the fatigue the other clears the fatigue five rounds say 20 seconds on four minutes of active recovery. Well that leads right into Gretchen's question. And her question is you know, she heard you talk about PVC presses with a handstand push-up we talked about it Spencer handle talks about it on an upcoming episode. Actually that we have going up going out at next. Well, that's cool. How do you choose what types of active recovery movements you choose to pair with the movement itself in order to increase the capacity. So we use an active recovery for two things. We do it to extend the amount of time an athlete is moving. So athletes have limitations muscular stamina and one of the reasons why we've run into muscular stamina problems is because CrossFit athletes Will typically do a passive recovery after an effort versus an active recovery. And so what we do is we incorporate a PVC as a way of forcing an athlete to address a muscular stamina a weakness. If we never challenged our muscle fibers to recover on the Fly then what's going to happen is that as your fibers fatigue and your brain shuts them off and recruits the next Each eventually, it's going to circle back down back to the original group in the fibers. Well, if you haven't gone long enough those fibers will eventually have a muscular contraction failure essentially at cramping and you're done. That's why marathon runners run a hundred fifty miles in a week is the elites because they don't want 26.2 to be a stamina issue. Now the other thing that crossfitters and why we use these these clearance type workouts or active recovery is To improve an athlete's ability to clear lactate in a localized muscle group through performing a particular movement. So what we know is that as we move and if we move fast enough and long enough a muscle will create lactic acid lactate in these fatigue housing properties and if we keep moving long enough and fast enough eventually, it goes into our bloodstream, but we know and short Durations, it's localized. So if I create lactate in any movement, I want to combine that with a clearance movement. That is something similar to the one that just created the petite for the purpose of accelerating the body or that muscles ability to clear lactate at a faster rate so that we can do more work. So it's twofold we do lactate clearance workouts PVC to extend the length of the workout right to force the athlete to move longer in the active recovery, right instead of sitting in a chair or standing around and doing nothing and the other is that we're forcing the muscle that has just built up a tremendous amount of lactate and we're teaching that muscle group on how to actively clear that lactate. It's so that they actually can recover faster. You mentioned marathon runners, I think at some point everybody on this call will deal with someone who's at the box but wants to train for a marathon. Yeah Howard. I'm at asked a question in line with that. What are some good ways that as coaches we can support their goal, you know be at a marathon or Triathlon something extended period like that, but maintain intensity and Effectiveness in class. That's a great question. So You know that we must as coaches. We have to look at someone that walks in the door and wants to get good. Let's say at a marathon. Once you get better you have to look at the entire structure are their muscle groups that they are leaving behind where there's opportunity. Right? So like I comment about Rich Froning he was one of the easiest athletes that I've ever had in order to make better for in the movement of running to ever did was sprinting right. He just sprinted all the I slowed him down and I developed a slow twitch aerobic fibers and you know what in 10 weeks he went from a six-minute mile down to 541 just running two times a week. It was because he left behind his slow-twitch running muscles. So I just developed them if we have a whole spectrum of fibers. We don't want to limit or ignore certain groupings of those fibers. We want to make sure that in time. Higher fiber spectrum is developed if we look at a marathon runner and we look at what they've developed. You've got to assume that, you know what their legs are optimized just assumed that. So, how are we going to make them faster? Well, what about the other parts of the body that other muscle groups that are involved in the movement of running other than the legs? What about if we threw the protocols of CrossFit we improve their bodies ability. For example this motion of when we run our arms. What if I have you on a rower and I actually can spend more time training this push pole, right or an assault bike. Can I improve the aerobic capacity? Paucity of those other muscle groups and their ability to clear blood lactate. So remember when that Runner is running fast, they're generating lactate in the legs and eventually spills into the bloodstream lactate shuttle and it's going to move into all throughout the body. It's just trying to find vacant slow-twitch fibers to burn it off. What about through the protocols of CrossFit? We improve the body's ability to clear lactate in these non leg muscles could Marathon runner run faster absolutely it can so that's the that's the value proposition. You've got to look at the other movements and are they neglecting opportunity? The second part of that is that it's agent athletes. So I'm 56 and if you watch me run I run still like I'm a kid and it is because normally as we age we lose range of motion and we lose lean muscle mass and so you Older athletes from the age of 42 the age of 70 your stride length gets cut by 50% because of those two things. The way I can preserve. Mine is I work my range of motion. But I also work on strength. I am interested in maintaining my ability to generate power and I do that by lifting heavy Runners as they age. You know, what they do. They go from doing 5Ks to 10 K is 2 marathons to Ultras because they go from a long stride length to a short stride length because they have no ability to generate Force. And they have no range of motion. I've trained a few people through marathons not in such an ideal way like you are describing but I typically have some articles like Gregg Allman's and who had run a hundred miles through CrossFit training and a few other people. Do you have any good places we can direct our athletes to say. Hey, you should still be using CrossFit as your foundation and incorporating some running throughout the week, but you don't need to run a hundred miles to prepare for 26.2. Yes, so I think so. Here's the thing is that crossfitters were general fitness athletes, right? We're not specialist. So it's some point in time we have to to make a determination of whether or not a an event such as a marathon put you into more of a specialized category. So let's say you wanted to train for an Ironman a full Ironman. You're a specialist. You're no longer. You've got to pay attention to To that specialty sport so that you don't underperform in my opinion a marathon without a doubt has a specialty event and you have to prepare the body for that event. But you also don't want to neglect the added features that are going to keep you injury-free and also balance out the development of the other non muscle or non-use muscle. Neighbors you want to have a strength based program you want to have a high intensity based protocol? Because the entire muscle fiber Spectrum in a marathon is going to be taxed and if you are not utilizing programming from a high intensity speed strength power standpoint, then Part Of Your Arsenal of Fitness going into that event is going to limit your performance. And so I look at it where I I am concerned. We're at athletes don't put a time on their feet. You have to do a longer run on the weekend to prepare the structure for what it's about to experience again. So it's not surprised. The problem is is that how do you do that with a conventional marathon training program? You can't because what what do they do on the weekend? It's it's 13 today next weekend. It's 14 then it's 15 it goes all the way up to 18. In my opinion, I like to do weekend runs and it's a three-week rotating micro cycle. I like doing the long run as a one-time event. The next work out. What I want to do is I want to break it up into half that quantity that of your long run where you're breaking in and you're doing a progressive run easy to moderate to fast. Let's say three miles easy to Miles moderate one mile fast. And then what I would do is take a long run and distance equal to your long SI single day, but I would break it up into an AMPM workout. Meaning I'm going to run eight miles in the morning and four miles in the evening. And for the body doing that it's going to have the same cumulative effect. It just won't be so damaging. So I like rotating those every three weeks as I progressed up my volume and that's the way for a Crossfitter to two State because they stay healthy. All right. I'm not going to take him too much more of your time. I'll give you an opportunity to talk about the aerobic capacity seminar and of course your foundation, but I think this is a great question for a final question because we're all about coaching and no bonding with our athletes and cultivating a great experience. Yeah, so Matt says you sound very personable which you obviously are early on did you find that you gained trust with your athletes through building relationships or with delivering results? So it's it without a doubt that's about results. You know, it's funny. I this voice so I met Camille in June of 2013 and she had come to the track with Jason khalipa and at the end of this track workout. She comes to me and she says so you be my coach And we go to the game and we win and you stay my coach, but if you you don't make me better than I'd never call you again. And I was like, wow, like I was floored. I wasn't even I mean this was in June of 13 and I was driving home and I'm like wow that boy, but then I got to thinking about it. It's like that's actually the truth that that's our job. Our number one job is to deliver performance and you know back in 13. It was easy to do those things. That's why I like working with Matt Fraser. It's very challenging because the easiest Was gone three years ago and I always find that that if at coach is able to hang onto an athlete for a long amount of time, they're still delivering performance and that is an amazing coach because the athlete is the one thing that is The Testament to the value of that coach just like our members members of a gym. If you can retain them, it says something about the gym. That's why I when I go into a gym, I always ask. How long have you been a member here? Ear because that tells you how good the program is and so at the end of the day what everybody is looking for is performance they want performance and if you are able to deliver that they'll come back the following day. So in a Box level for these guys for us as coaches when someone is contemplating leaving should we immediately think hey, we're not providing them with performance improvements and sit down and discuss. Their goals were they started and show them that they are in fact making improvements the I think that so I'll give you an exact so Sara sigmundsdottir, I coached her two years ago. She went to the games and she finished fourth that year in Madison, but that runs from run. She finished a minute behind Sam Briggs. It was a Monumental performance. And then she goes on to a retreat was Sam Briggs and then next thing you know. She calls and she says I'm leaving Tennessee and I was so bummed by that it was like wow, like the Mount of progress that was made in six months was was it was remarkable? And it really that it really hurt me as a coach and and I reflected a lot on that and I think that the mistake that I made with her was I Make her take ownership in most of her training that I would take on that responsibility. Right she would submit in results. I would assess the results and based on the results. Here's the next plan. I think that it is a huge mistake for coaches to not have athletes take accountability in the game plan. My job as a coach I've realized is to write amazing programming and that it maximizes the value of the time and the athletes willing to commit right maximize that adaptation in that most efficient way. I also must explain the purpose of workouts. Why are we doing this? What's the focus and so that they buy into it but is the athletes job to own that workout and to perform in that workout and that's not my job. I'm not the guy that should be sitting there going great job because how do I know whether or not it was really that great. That's what the athletes should be determining and if you're running a class with 30 people, there's no way on Earth, you know. All 30 or doing and whether or not they're working harder easy. So I think it comes down to really athlete ownership and getting them to buy into the game plan and believing it after they've decided to go like Sarah when she said it's just like, you know, what all I could say is good luck to you. Where does that begin in a class? I think it's comes with the start. I think that part is is that a coach needs to be reinforcing that here's the game plan. This is what we're doing. This is the direction we're going on and this is why but let's say for example, we talked about those like we brought up that that like a lactate gout, you know, see an active recovery. What I'm what I would do is if we had a class that was doing let's say You know, let's say we were taking a movement and we did 12 seconds. Let's say we did shoulder press right? So let's say we took a plate we did 25 pounds of 12 seconds of shoulder press created fatigue and then a PVC 48 seconds slow recovery five rounds, no rest. Let's say that we did that all as a class and then next week. We're going to do the same workout. It's five rounds 12 seconds of shoulder press with the plate and then it's 48 seconds with the PVC. But now the difference is that the people who did that work out before what we're going to tell them is this You guys did this workout before I need you to decide whether or not you want to work on your strengths or you want to work on your recovery? And if you decide that you want to improve your ability to recover in a shoulder, press instead of doing your shoulder, press today with the PVC. I want you to get a five-pound weight. And what you're going to do is a very slow active recovery shoulder, press with the five pound plate because that's the direction of adaptation you want you want to improve your recovery. If you want to improve your strength your ability to tolerate your fatigue, then we're going to focus on the intensity side. So Chris you at 25 pounds. You to get 30 pounds in you're going to do 30 pounds today because that's the direction of the adaptation athletes you guys pick which direction you want to go in meaning you get them involved in the work out and making a choice of which direction they want to go in because that's how you get them to take ownership. We could also do Fran for the sole purpose of doing Fran to create blood lactate and now the coach is going to write three movements on the board. And at the end of Fran I you're going to accumulate 2 minutes of one of these three movements at a very slow active recovery Pace to train the body how to pull lactate out of the bloodstream and consume it as a fuel in one of these three movements. So you have a choice after Fran you're going to do two minutes of active recovery PDC deadlift active recovery floor, press active recovery. Through a shoulder press right. There's your three choices and you're going to pick one of those get them involved. My point is is if we are always pushed in and showing people what to do. They take no ownership back to Sara sigmundsdottir. I was teaching her Transitions, and she tells me I can't do a swim to run transition and get my shoes on I have to wear socks. And I told her I said okay. So if you wear socks how fast can you do it and she says I don't know. I probably can put them on in 30 seconds. And so I took off my shoes and I set them up, you know how to do a trend and I'm good at this right I can get both shoes on wet in under 5 seconds and start running and the mistake I made was as I should have gone head-to-head against her and did it my way against her way and been 200 meters down the road and said, okay. So are you willing to to tolerate blisters or do you want to make up 30 seconds of time? That's the difference if we're always pushing versus involving then there's a different level of connection. I love it. It takes me longer to put on my shoes every morning than that. So I'm going to give it a try. I have a question. I have a question for you. Can you put your shoes on and tie them while standing? That sounds like another wager for me and Todd. I wear velcro shoe laces. So yes boy. Meaning you can do it standing because you have to bypass flexibility. I don't know. I think I'm still young that's you know what I checked that every now and then I'm like, okay, I still got it. Yeah, you got to put your socks socks and shoes and tie. I'm standing both feet. All right group you heard it from the man right there. That's the challenge. That's the homework for the week. We want to see posting that in the group Chris before you get off. Please tell everybody where we can a you know, the CrossFit has changed their model. It's no longer specialty course. It's a preferred course where we can find out a little more about that. And of course, the the ultimate trail run is coming up actually one of our she was on her way to Pearl Harbor right now, but she also wanted me to make sure you knew she was volunteering Tuesday and help. Out with the kids and one of our members Bethany owns CrossFit Kapa / on Kauai. So we have a lot of ties to your foundation to tell everybody about those two things. So aerobic capacity.com is website. And yeah, so CrossFit did change things up. They went away from these specialty courses and now calls it a preferred course essentially giving the prefers pervert course providers more autonomy. I mean we're able to do a lot of things that we were not able to do in the past such as changing content of the course the structure the flow of a course one of the things that I do with my courses, I teach all of them and our sport is evolving in an incredible rate and the content of these courses should have be evolving at the same rate for For pacing, you know pacing like we talked about earlier. It's a huge buzz word in the sport, but in 2013, I was fast for pacing providing people rest in intervals. I mean how great was it that rest was in an open work out right that crossfit's recognizing the value of these things but we as instructors we have to evolve at the tip of the spear and that's what I like about it. I am always putting cutting-edge things that I learn from athletes that I coach and that's what's part of this course. I do. I love the course. It's a one day course and we're loading more courses. We just loaded three more courses today, but there's a bunch more in Europe and throughout the u.s. Is coming up. So yeah, I'm really excited about that. I've been playing around also with putting that course online just because there's a lot of demand for it and honestly, I'd like to do a level. I've talked to Connor Murphy about you know coaching that with me. I would like to move into other spaces of it. We've got about 3,000 people that have already gone through the course and so there's decent numbers that are out there. And if I did an online one, then we can do a more intensive version of it. I believe that there's in this sport across fit. There's going to be consolidation at some point and I think that at the value at these gyms where I go. It's the coaches that are the Smart Ones the ones like the people that are spending time in our today to listen these ones that want to learn that's where I think the action is long-term. Those are the ones that are going to flourish and dominate and there's the ones that are going to make the money and that's what I want to do is I myself I want to drive into that next layer of knowledge to I mean for my own sake so that's yeah Aerobic capacity.com. I like I said, I what we've talked about. I dive into that detail on the courses. I really genuinely love it. It's a true experience and I just did one in Charleston, South Carolina. And what a great time. That was I I love the course and that whole day for me is a treat. The caliph Foundation the ultimate Hawaiian trail run that that is something coming up middle of September every year. I think this is the sixth year of Janet every year and it's the cause that that Heidi my wife and I contribute into and it's not just Financial contribution. It's really about time and I have always given in to charity and I don't know about everybody here on the on the on the call, but charity is an interesting thing. You know, you always hear about it and people doing things, you know, charitable contributions and things but the key the number one thing that you can do is immerse yourself in it and commit time. I can't I can't even begin to tell you the level of satisfaction and and happiness and I can't quite I can't describe the happiness from from coming out of it because let's face it that caused over there is awful and it's so sad and And it's a huge bummer. But when you contribute time for people that genuinely need help that level of feeling that happiness. I just I really encourage you to not just in the trail run but go find something. If you don't have something where you can immerse yourself into it and the back end happiness changed its changed our lives and and in a good way. It makes me want to give more time and to be more generous and be Open and caring. Yeah, it's been a wonderful thing for me as heart-wrenching as it is and yeah, check it out. And if you could ever make it over to that event these kids in the war zone that they're in is it's beyond description of what's happening to them and the Hawaiian families are going to disappear from drug alcohol and suicide and murder they're going to disappear and it's happening on a wrap. Bad rate that whole culture and it's it's yeah the Dynamics of how it's happening is just it's remarkable how awful it is, but like I said for me and Heidi it's incredibly enriching and I really encourage you to not just that, you know, charitable Foundation, but any foundation if you immerse yourselves, I just it's the most rewarding thing I've ever done. Well, hopefully this is up there as one of the most rewarding things you've ever done just under giving back dirty, but speaking for our entire group and fern Todd and Cape be on the call. We just want to let you know we truly appreciate your time and I learned a ton and I've seen you talk and I look forward to hearing you talk again on what on the waves. I don't look forward to incorporating any of that running that you talked about. Out into the workout, but as long as it helps to be taught in the 2020 open, I'm happy. So thank you so much Grill it thank you so much always good man, always good, but any time a bunch of our people are telling you the Sea on the boat, so thank you guys I love but thank you everyone. Alright. See you guys. Bye. Thanks for listening to best our of their day. If you haven't heard about anchor it's the easiest way to make a podcast. Let me explain. First of all, it's free. How cool is that? 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Hey listeners! Today’s episode is a real insight for you guys. As you maybe know we run a mentorship group and as part of that there are weekly calls and during these calls, there is a certain topic that is discussed. Along with we have guest coaches on to provide an insight into their speciality subjects and allow for them to answer questions directly. This episode is the mentorship call with Chris Hinshaw from back in August. This is a unique opportunity to see into mentorship, which is something that is not being offered anywhere. It’s a long term development over weeks and months with constant new material, that is tailored to the individual whether your a coach who’s been coaching for 10 years or if you have your level 1 for a week. This will help you get your level 2 or 3 (members have already) and help you improve as a coach. - Any questions, make sure to reach out to us! - Mastermind Crossfit Coaching Development. Check out the extra content about this episode on besthouroftheirday.com Rate/subscribe in Apple Podcasts! Find us on Instagram: @besthouroftheirday + @thejasonackerman Check out our website - besthouroftheirday.com - to learn more about our private coaches development group. 