What is up? Everybody? Awesome episode today? Got it to talk with a longtime friend of mine Jack Ryan who owns Fair Winds across the his partner. We talked about a ton of stuff. We talked about how to enter business with a partner which not a lot of people do we talk about coaching. We talked about running the affiliate we talk about communicating with your community via different formats or mediums podcasting writing all of that stuff. There's just someReally really good gems in here from a guy that I introduced to CrossFit. And is it just a really just just awesome person more than a decade ago and just really really cool to see and just never underestimate that the impact you have on people what that ripple effect can be over the long term. If you you know, just be nice to people give people the best out of their day. But here's my interview with Jack Ryan his partner Eric hype from pheromones CrossFit. If you text messages via Google Drive, he was just talk about how much we hate Google Drive. All right, everybody. Welcome back to the best our over there day. It's fun here. I am here with a good friend of mine long time Jack Ryan and his business partner here at Coit they own Fairwinds CrossFit and we're gonna talk about a lot of different things. Most of this is going to be relevant to the affiliate owner / new coach. So take some notes on this one Jack and I have known each other. I was trying to figure this out yesterday like Ten years almost. Yes mm the fall of 2008. I came actually met in the summer of 2008 like found you tucked away in some Warehouse in Virginia Beach at expeditionary support unit two grumpy angry. Sweaty. Yeah. So anybody who's trying to Envision what this looks like this is the life of any Supply officer in the Navy just sitting in a warehouse. R house being pissed off at the world. Yeah, but but no Jack was my operations officer. When I was at mobile unit twelve he deployed together to Iraq and I introduced Jack to CrossFit and typical story like hey, what are you doing? Let's try this out and and then he's gone on to do bunch of different things start his own affiliate. He's worked other Affiliates started be affiliate at the Naval Academy. He is also a Naval Academy grad second Naval Academy grad we found on the podcast so My first question for you, Eric is how is it working with somebody who is the subject of so many Tom Clancy books? It's funny. That doesn't come up as much as there as often as you'd think of course. My tell people is like yeah my business partner Jack Ryan. It's like the weight the Jack Ryan. Yeah. Thank Jack Ryan. It's it's so I have to ask you this Jack. I don't think I've ever asked you this like obviously anybody who's like into walls now on Amazon as assert as A Syrian but we're did you always go by Jack or did that come about when you got to the Naval Academy and you're just like, this is cool. Yeah, not as a good question. No, I was born about eight years before the first book came out. So I was a I'm a junior and so my dad went by Pat. I had an Uncle John on one side of the family. My mom always wanted a jack, but she and my dad wanted a junior. So I was Jack right from the get-go when I got to the name or actually even in the process of applying to the Naval Academy. The early the Tom Clancy series and the name was prevalent, but there was an actual there's a guy from Slate who called an interview while I was teaching at school and you know, he tried he really wanted there to be something and as a literature Professor, I kept trying to explain to him look man fiction is great. But reality is often a lot more interesting and those characters served a purpose for Tom Clancy as a writer. Aitor, that's it. The name doesn't mean shit. If you go into any sort of Ireland phone directory. There's about a thousand Ryan's and most of them are named John Patrick or some variation of John and Patrick and so it's not a very unfit. So extremely common name what when I was I was going to look it up this morning. I just got lazy, but I was trying to figure out when did the like the Patriot Games and all that the movies come out like you ever get it. You never get to see you for Harrison Ford. Yeah. The book was 85. I think the movies came out late 80s semantics Idol. Yeah books are first thanks Eric. And and you know, I think the transition I love Alec Baldwin's awesome. I think Harrison Ford kind of ran the show anything after that was sort of a shade of those two characters. I think this reboot of the series on Amazon's not too bad, but not to give thought it was I thought the first season was really good. But yeah, I was wondering I was trying to think I was like, I'm pretty sure these movies came out because you graduated in 99 99 I'm okay. Yes. I was one year. I got there one year after you left. Okay. Yeah so for so Jack was obviously in the EOD officer. That's where we met. And then he just retired June, you know yet June after 20 years 20 years finished his career at the Naval Academy where he went to a permanent military Professor job there to write out as time which is a pretty sweet gig. He was teaching English who's teaching. For the idiots we do we have we I taught that for two semesters was pretty great. And it's funny. They actually transitioned it. We now call them the Harvard's because there's only as we like to say the name Academy is comparable to an Ivy League. There's only one other ivy league institution that makes all of their students take three semesters of English regardless of their major and that's Harvard and so our are trucker English you are remedial English students are on par with students from Harvard. Dan is remedial folks. It is the most they're often the most enjoyable students though. Yeah, so about that class was always super fun for me and then smooth 5, which is math for morons, which is basic like remedial calculus where it's just it's literally nothing but football baseball lacrosse a basketball players sleeping if they're through class and that was basically what you're telling us. What you town is Jason is you were Ever there's there's two categories of you know performers in the sense of you're either a smart performer or a strong performer and it's a good thing that you were pretty strong. I was strong just not academically. I people o people there I've have I've had very few people make the assumption that I'm intelligent because I make because I went to the Naval Academy and I'm like listen, I graduate with a 2.11 it was Bare. I barely graduated and at one point I was Thousand and twelve out of 1018 as far as my academic ranking. So I was almost the Anchorman still a little bit grumpy about that. But you got to get even get enough trouble. I know that I did not I did I got I think I got the merits like once like that. I was good. I was getting away with things like to do all along very well versed there. But anyway, so let's talk a little bit about both of your Introductions in kind of Journey Through CrossFit like Jack, I gave a little bit of a brief introduction of yours, but let's go through yours and then Eric will talk about yours as well. And then how that kind of LED you both to opening your affiliate that you currently have Jim. So as you as you mentioned that deployment to Iraq and you know nine after you subjected me to fight gone bad, I was definitely hooked transitioned from that command to a job. In Hawaii where there was a CrossFit following at the command at mobile diving Salvage unit one, but they kind of were just all over the place. And so I sort of chalk that up to my first quote unquote affiliate. We weren't Affiliated, but I had I had a budget I was able to buy equipment we set up classes. We had a couple folks who had their loved ones or at least had some familiarity with coaching and Brian Powers whose at Oahu now, I think like they're a conglomerate of some sort, but he was running sort of a The trainer type of course that we were able to send a handful of our guys at the individual unit level through which worked out really well for me because I got to keep going through it. So basically it was sort of like a level one but not a level one and I got to see the if you chunk it into you know running an affiliate as has different buckets or categories of skill sets. This was the you have all the money in the world. You don't have a lot of space and you kind of got like a asean type of population what kind of structure should you set up and it's sort of this idea of really learning how to farm out the skill set to as many people as possible so they can kind of be autonomous what were some of the big so now that I'm thinking about that as far as like skill sets what words if you were to look back on that now, what would you say? We're like the one or two biggest things that you took away from that that you currently using your affiliate like hey when I learned that I have to be really efficient with Myspace or whatever it might be. I would say it is just because you have all the money in the world or you have funds to buy kind of whatever you want. There is a university ality in barbells bumper plates dumbbells and a rig and that's it. And the rig really a pull-up bar is is all you need. And so because you want to be thinking how can I get the most flexibility in this equipment and when I mean Flex it use of flexibility for guys and athletes who don't have a whole lot of time and they just want to come in and Is well safely so that they can stay fit and do okay that that sort of non competitor. Nobody in that group though. There were three guys that eventually did end up going to the games on teams, but from different Affiliates. Yeah. What about how can I create a system that is supported with its equipment that I'm not going to be running on a day-to-day basis. So sort of like really big picture owner and sort of in in the weeds coach manager just sort of like what can I approve that won't get anybody in trouble and will last because you're only going to get to buy stuff about once a year. Yeah, and I think this kind of goes back to the where most people started back in the day, which is like simple is better. Yes, like always always one of the things that happens is this is typically what I see in some of the newer gems that I go to that have a lot of funds which is they have all this stuff. In the programming eventually kind of turns into what Freddy Camacho who was on the show recently would describe as the any asshole work out which it means any asshole can just throw all that stuff on a paper put it in some sort of rep scheme and make a workout and it's not difficult to make something hard like it's incredibly easy to make something hard. That doesn't mean it's effective. So if we kind of think like I then came to the academy I transition to that permanent military presence Professor roll and similar situation. There were there were people doing CrossFit. They had the racquetball court. We actually had some support from folks in the PE department. And but again, it was sort of a hodgepodge of a lot of body weight stuff a lot of circuit stuff and now the challenge would be You got a lot of really fit athletic people. You don't have a whole lot of money. You kind of got a very constrained time, but they don't move well, and so now it was less about being sort of an owner and sort of people who just did not know how to coach did not know how to move didn't know how to structure a class and so creating sort of I would say with the academy it was a little bit of equipment stuff. So it took that skill set from the month from the previous time got the Cick starter set for them to be able to run a class of anywhere between and this is you guys talked about it. I was thinking in 1812. So this idea of the racquetball space could fit feasibly inside of it eight people safely swelled to a class of 12. Now. You got a bump out a little bit. Maybe you're limited with what you can actually do but there's at least room to make it work anything more than that, then it just becomes a goat rope and it's different. So we basically would say classes would have a Spots the coach could let it swell to 12 at that point. The doors were closed. Sorry, you had to kick people away and then coaching like I coached proof probably a thousand classes over the course of that first 5 years of running along. I mean, I was coaching three classes a day five days a week and then usually seeing them on Saturdays and so it was and it was all year Summers off. Okay. So let me ask you this because this happens to right so this is A perfect segue which is like so you're in Hawaii your training you come to the Naval Academy and there's two pieces there. The first one is just like going to any military unit. I've got to get buy-in from the Head Shed as far as like, this is okay. We're not going to kill people, you know, not every crab does not contagious, you know, but we're would you where would you place yourself in your coaching development or career the game start that and then most people are like well, how do I start coaching like I'm not ready. Yeah, I think maybe the unfair Advantage is that I had a little bit of rank. So I had a little bit of like buying right from the get-go simply because what I wore on my collar versus what they were on their collar, but at the same token with that there was a sort of a duality of I could kind of get away with whatever I wanted whatever I said, they would believe but at the same token I had a responsibility to actually know. The hell I was talking about and to admit and say like Hey, we're going to mess with this stuff together. Right? Like I don't know. Maybe we I think we started following Outlaw at first because I was like, I don't really know about programming and I can figure it out but whatever and quickly realized way too much. So then we follow.com for a year much better, but it got a little bit boring and so as you said boring is not always bad. It's just bad it's effective but it was tough to keep them engaged and so we settled on kind of like a myth. Mash of different things out there as we talked about earlier, you know contrary. I know Pat Barber had one for a while there. That was awesome Sherwood stuff with Lincoln is awesome simple, but yet still engaging there is no perfect programming. There is simply perfect execution. And so we settled on something that they saw gains and the fun battle with them became for me as a coach at that phase where I was was coming to realize that it does not. Not matter what they actually did as long as we executed it well and they consistently did it. I think that is one of the most important lessons a coach a gym owner could learn is that we far too often get way too attached to our programming and the reality is exactly what you just said there is extremely strong argument for the fact that programming doesn't matter at all like not one. It lets in triplets couplets and triplets and and history would verify that invalidate that because most of us didn't know where we're doing. We started programming and people still got fit like most of us move like trash when we first started and we still got fit and then we started to make it sexy and more volume and the spreadsheet really matters and it doesn't matter. I think Pat Barber said it which was hey, you know, what a good coach can do a lot with shitty programming a add coach can't do anything with the best program in the world. It does not matter. What matters is your ability to walk in the door and effectively change movement in a very finite amount of time and make people have a good time while they're doing it. Yeah, and so I think with this that timeframe of bouncing between and I was coaching at a couple of Affiliates in the area in the Annapolis Area as well. It gave me the opportunity to see a broad spectrum of movers from really athletic 18 24 year olds who actually just don't move that. Well, a lot of mobility issues to adults and kids in the Annapolis Area who may be moved a little bit better had you know lives and different ailments that I got at that point went to a couple, you know, specialty courses got my level to kind of did those sorts of more formulaic developments, but just time under tension on the floor learn. In what style worked for me seeing how lot of what I learned in the military does apply a lot of what I learned in the military does not apply people do not like to be yelled at then again. Some people do like to be yelled at so it's sort of this there is no one size fits all which, you know makes my brain explode. What do you mean you're not going to do what I tell you to do because I told you to do it and systems. I learned the importance of Both appreciating the systems but then also appreciating when certain individuals shit all over the system and let it go away as I tap Eric on the shoulder. So it's you find I think that's the move when we open our box as we realized we complemented each other very well have a have a very large Venn diagram Center, but also we don't force each other to go into that Venn diagram Circle you can balance What keeps us from me running this place like a freaking boot camp and nothing ever running on time because this place running like a tornado, right? But at the same token everything running on time the way it's supposed to I don't care about people right? Like that's the far end of my Spectrum versus will sit and talk with one person all day because that's the most important thing in the world, but forget like we got to pay bills too. Yeah, so it's and I'm being I'm being facetious. Like that's not you know, what that's a real scenario and it's and which is a perfect segue to talk about York, but that's that's a lot why Jason and I work together like we're not the same in a lot of ways like there's certain things. He good at he's good at and there's certain things that I'm good at and we've we've talked about that we said hey, this is your part. This is my part and we'll talk about what overlaps there but for the most part like I'm going to let you do your thing. And I think it takes probably a little bit about of much. Ready to kind of let some of those things go when you're like Hey, listen, like you're better at that than I am and that's okay. Like I'm totally fine with that. So Eric a you had a little bit of a different start like you started a kind of in Span and then kind of found your way to cross it. Correct. It's like if that was a very like short version. We have more time. I have a lot of different paths to get to where I am today. It just happened I was That past started. I was working at the VA and I actually started in the the canteen. So when that little convenience store in the yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah and they opened up a coffee shop in there and I was hired to run the coffee shop. So that's where I started nice. And so it was a it was not an official Starbucks. It was a we proudly Brew Starbucks so they sell stuff with the Starbucks logo on it, but we can't take your gift cards and so but it was yeah, I was I was the morning guys what? One came in for their their morning coffee around which is the line running out the door and then secondary secretary Shinseki at the time with this is venti skim mocha with no whip. I remember that one in particular that was his that was his beverage of choice. But yeah, I kind of ran that show and it was I just love interacting with people I if I went down all the jobs that I've had in some form or another I'm interacting with people all the time all day every day. It's the few jobs that I had where I was eating in front of a computer by myself, which is why I probably drove myself crazy in the most but it was working at Starbucks line where the lady who ran the fitness center came up to me. She's like you seem really great with people you should ever thought about being a spin instructor and has absolutely not no, I never thought about being a spin instructor let alone a fitness instructor of any kind and she talked me into it. I went got a spinning certification loved it and then left the Starbucks started working at fitness center. And so it was They these guys were coming in and I've mentioned that they were two very fit guys with very form-fitting clothing. So they were in some Goods to say the least but the can one day and they stacked up a bunch of those like step aerobic boxes. Oh, yeah stacked up and we're trying to do like their max box jump on those things and it's always one of those like cross the veil videos you see waiting to happen like they're going to land too far forward or too far back and wipe out and the ceilings were no, I mean the ceilings are maybe seven eight feet tall no much, too. Calling it not much taller than any like regular office space but ask them what they're doing. They were telling me about CrossFit this close friend of mine told me about this thing CrossFit. I went to.com I saw the stuff. I thought it looked awesome, but I'm not the person that watches a YouTube video and like I'm going to try that thing that looks scary and heavy indeed. I never lifted weights. Like I played Sports in high school. I never really lifted weights much but I've always been a decent sized guy a large American if you will and just never went Weights and so it wasn't something that I wanted to try on my own because I knew for a fact I was going to hurt myself after like a year or so. I finally got myself into a box a box where exactly where I met Jack I was working you were one of my first coaches and I camera with my first like the first workout after the introductory was the box jump one where it was literally like come in Jump as high as you can on a box or if it was double under workout wear for an hour. I just sat there and whipped my so I remember burpees and deadlifts because I remember you almost throwing throwing up over the overhang remember how the at the it was there wasn't a flat up drive up. It was sort of an elevated overhang and we're doing burpees and deadlifts and I remembered so it is might have been like a week or two weeks. But I think that's the first like distinct memory. I have of him and like holding onto the garage door railing and kind of like hanging out as if he's gonna throw them like, oh God, I'm gonna lose this guy. He's gonna have a head trauma. I'm done. I'm gonna get fired. I'm not gonna get my retirement like and you recover It's funny. I don't remember that at all. Yeah, that's what I that's that's the workout. I remember that's what people do with traumatic experiences Eric. They've got some out so I want to I want to Kind of asked you guys both and you guys can both give your own answers but like so obviously you're very different have very different skill sets. So obviously Jack your systems person Eric your people Jack your small Eric. You're big, you know military civilian like how like at what point do do all of those differences somehow turn into a partnership where you guys are now running this business together. So you want to eat though. It's not fair, sir. So we were always. I don't think I think I always knew Jack was a bit of a systems guy and just the relationship we had built because he was across Little Bay where we met. I forget how long you were there. I figured how long I was working out there and you were there. I think I'd started. I've been there about six months and then started coaching. Yeah, and then you were there not much longer after that. Yeah, and so we always maintain this friendship and I don't think I think it was just the relationship we have like, I think I he started working. The garage I was still working at Old Bay and I think was just conversations back and forth about how the gym is going. How coaching is going and just how we kind of always bounce off each other and I think it was always kind of seen how when when he ran a class from from zero minute from the X class starts to the way it ends and seeing how he had every second accounted for or something that I knew just cut. That was how I got a look into Jack's systems and I think Jack just seeing like Hey You Are Good with people. I think it was just always those conversations back and forth. And when we started I think we started running a kids program out of your garage and then you just kind of seeing and then it was just kind of seeing how that little bit from 10 to 12 kids seeing how I work in that space and how he work in that space. I think we saw like, this could be something really cool. Even if only on a small level so for me I as I was thinking about Moving into starting my own thing started in the garage because you know, I'm always a big fan even in the teaching literature, you know, I keep going back further and further and further to find like well that story seems like it was been told before so you go back to the Renaissance. So that story seems to be told before you go back to the Bible. That seems to be you go back to Homer like we keep telling the same story over and over again. So I was like alright starting an affiliate. What should I do? Well, Glassman wrote an article and he said starting a garage get 10 people move out get more people go bigger go and don't wait you Gotta wait until three to four people complain don't move wait until three to four people quit then move and so is sort of this idea of like, all right, I'm starting out in my garage and it's going to be slow growth and we're going to do this and I was going to go solo and then I remembered for the last 20 years of my life 25 years in my life, you know, you know through some high school all the cad meet military. I've never worked alone even in when you're independent operator, you're part of a team teams always work better blah blah blah all that kid stuff. But the reality is because you get balanced by somebody who can complement your weaknesses or complement your strengths and counteract your weaknesses. I distinctly remember thinking like, alright. Well Eric's name always would come up in my mind because I always knew that he was similar to me in a lot of ways of he I think he sells himself short of the art with which he runs a class. He's accounting for every second as well. It's just not written down. It's Instinct. Well, it's in There but it's accounted for we did a my birthday in March before things were kind of formalize and I was moving on I asked him if he would be willing to run a workout for about five or six of friends and stuff in town. It's swelled to we probably had 20. Yeah, there was a it was way more than I told him it would be and I didn't give him any heads up and we just showed up and he and I sign of a true partner and I just sort of So it is said like this is where I wanted to feel we want to do a bunch of stuff kind of chipper ich blah blah blah and it was awesome. And it was on the Fly and in my head. I'm thinking oh my God, if I had done this to somebody they wouldn't be my friend anymore and he did it with a smile and actually like thanked us afterwards thanked me like, oh, thanks so much and I'm like, oh, yeah. This is a guy that would put up with my crap and be willing to go in on this with me. And so then we actually had a real conversation and we sat down and we did exactly like you. Said we talked about these are the things I think I do. Well, these are the things I think you do. Well, these are the things I think we can really knock out of the park and let's do it. So what when you having that conversation because this is something else that comes up pretty regularly is like my first question is did you guys develop some sort of operating agreement and then who owns what responsibilities within the business because this is probably the one of the biggest mistakes first and foremost very few Partnerships with in CrossFit Affiliates work for a multitude of reasons. Most of them don't make enough money, but then most of them fail because they feel to have conversations on the front end. Yeah. What did that look like when you guys sit down be like we're going to do this but there's a couple things that have to happen first. Yeah, so I'll take this one. So just I just I think they remember saying I said we need to do that, but I think if we we're going to shoot at a Target that we don't even know where it is. And we're going to close our eyes Spin and shoot. It's a waste of time. So I said number one. We are 50/50. We are 50/50 Financial. We are 50/50 workload. We are 50/50 everything but that number is qualitative. And so we knew each other situations. I was still teaching at the Academy full time. He had just had a baby or his daughter was on the way. He also had another job. So there was sort of this like, you know, all do most me I'll do most of the back end stuff. You got to cover most of it on the floor gym stuff. That is not a Annotated of our thing, but the rule is if you feel like it's some point you're not doing 50 or you feel like you're doing more you need to say something before you get angry and let's give it about six months eight months. Let's see where we fall out which as you've been on teams in the military. This is a very normal conversation that good teams have during What's called the norming phase that you are forming up and norming into these relationships that like look this is what this sop says with a standard. Reading procedure says but I don't work. That way you might let's see where it falls out. So we got a template but at the one years just over the one-year Mark, we actually wrote and they make fun of me. I wrote a storm standard operating regulation manual and it's by codes. I have we have the one code the to code the three code the for code everything's broken out into departments or categories or roles within that are subsets of like, okay. This is where it falls and it's a living document. Aunt but then we parse it out. And we said this is yours. This is mine. This is yours. This is mine. And now we have spaces for our coaches and our staff that is starting to come on board to fit and who's responsible for them who has that task ordered like all that stuff and I they make fun. I have we have a pope. We have poems Harry look golf fuck those things man. So that that is actually one of the skill sets that I picked up in the military that I did not ever believe was. You valuable just the just you know, because in some Clyde there's rules for everything. It's just like if this then that and this is how this works and this is the process but that's not what I wanted to ask. That's the important part people should do that but people don't because it's boring. Yeah, this is like this is painful. I don't want to do it. I'm like, yeah, but that's why everything here is should show because you failed to put in rules. You just have to know when to break the rules, right? They're not set in stone. He's really good at that like really really good. We're really good at breaking rules like but in a way that always is driven towards the users experience the person's experience the customer coming in because I will default to well that customer was 10 minutes late. They don't get to do class ba ba ba and it's like no man just be happy. They're here. Yeah, he's coming from the emergency room where his daughter broke his leg calm down. Right? And it's I think you said it one time. That like the thing that people remember about him that I remember about him is he always greets you with a smile and leaves you with a smile even if he got an hour of sleep last night because Fiona didn't sleep where there was a fight. It doesn't matter. That's not important. You're the most important person thing in the world when he's talking to you and that is something that it's a skill set that I have started to develop and I think he sells himself sore because he's He is my son dude, but this is that this one actually is for you Eric. So you guys obviously had the conversation about having not that that time out or whatever. You want to call it be like hey, this is not working. I'm feeling I'm feeling like I'm shouldering the brunt of the work. You know, how do you guys have rules on those conversations? And then what have you guys had like a significant disagreement thus far and how was it resolved? It's fine when we had the conversation when Jack wrote out the flow chart of all the systems and reform status on the Storm. I only know CrossFit acronyms Jack what I think that time you could have been better too because I was starting to get to a point where I was starting to feel he's he was he's coaching and he's doing all this back end stuff and It's hard for me to like you said the whole like user experience in running the floor and blah blah blah is theirs. It's not quantitative and so in my mind, I feel like Jax carrying so much and I'm not doing enough and I was I think I was having trouble feeling like that. It was actually an equal share and I felt like he was doing so much and I was dragging ass and that time going to be couldn't have when he put that together came at a great time because now it's like here This visualization. Here's this thing in front of me that I can look at and say Here's actually what you do and here's what I do and I can refer to that when I need you to make sure if I feel like I'm slipping which in all virile. I'll roll like an avalanche is it there's a vacuum of skill or vacuum of tasks? I'll just fill it because that's what that's what will you do Mission accomplishment, right? Like I don't care well after action report this later but feelings be damned like I'm Gonna Roll right over top of it. And so that I remember him saying like Dude, I need we were at a answer your question. We do a weekly meeting and I listened to your episode on meetings. We have a we have a timeline we keep the 45 minutes like it's a very deliberate thing because I totally agree. Afterwards, I put out a bunch of stuff and afterwards are tweets finishing and goes. Hey, I need to talk to you and so the rules are kind of I think with these conversations. We don't have any it truly is if the other person needs to express it. I think we've come to a place where you respectful you are very specific and you talk about how the actions are making you feel not that the other person is always doing something. Yeah. We had a meeting with our wives before this whole thing kicked off. We went to Coffee the four of us sat down and we basically said are you guys okay to our wives we said are you guys okay that basically Eric and I are marrying each other with this job. No. No, that's a that's a real conversation and and and Ackerman and I talked about that all the time because you know now that we're doing this we talk multiple times a day. Yeah, and it's and it's I think paid dividends because there has been there's been times. there I've pissed off my wife with we said we were going to she and I talked about like what was going to happen where we're going to expand how things are going to move and then he and I talked and we were like, oh we like that much better and I didn't come back and you know re briefed her on what the new plan was and it's happened since and I'm like, oh I forget did I tell you and she's like no, you told your other you told your other wife right here your other husband, it's good and bad because you do tend to kind of leave this other person out who's involved, but Only like on the periphery proofing but I think it's a good way to approach it because I think if you look at it like and and I and I know you say yes, I say that jokingly, but I think it probably works because you do look at it as a marriage, right which is like we're like in a legit relationship where if we don't make this work, there's going to be catastrophic for both of us. Well, I think a lot of other people look at it as like well it's a it's a it's transactional verses like this is a relationship and we this is going to take work. Work to make it work. Yeah, and the thing itself the Box the affiliate the community is now its own thing and so as much as I'm important and he's important like a marriage it is its own entity that sometimes we have to forego our own personal desires if it benefits the marriage and that's the part I think as far as a strength goes he always instinctively has that sense of what would make make this thing better and then I feel like I'm better at the okay nuts and bolts on the ground tactical level. How do we execute that your money? Where's the tight schedule? Yeah. So have you guys had a significant disagreement at this point just that like basically told me to settle the F down. Well, I got it include me like you've got to brief me on things before and he was right like it was like you're right. I was operating as if I was the only one in the house and that's inappropriate. remember what that was about because you're so damn nice and wasn't even it really what I mean as far as arguments go but it really was it was like it was in a very nice way of like hey, dude, you can't do that like I'm 50/50 and it's it's interesting that you say that in Eric and I'm curious what your thoughts on this are is that was one of the hard lessons that I had to learn and I think this is probably true for most people that leave the military where military is obviously a very authoritative authoritarian environment where like I don't have to ask you guys to make a decision like I'm the A boss like we're making the decision removing forward but you and everybody in the military is kind of okay with that but just because that's how it works like you hey, the rank wins so everybody just shut your face and we're going to move on but it doesn't work in the real world because people can just tell you like no, I don't like that like this sucks like whatever like how we're how is that for you Eric like trying to deal with that on the on the front end. So it's funny. I've never I've never looked at Jack as Lieutenant Commander, right? It's good. That's a good start. You know, like it I have respect for his position in the Navy and what he's done, but that that's never really affected me directly. Yeah, and so I've always seen him as is Jack the my friend or cross a coach or business partner. And and so I'm not a I think early on because he's not Jax older than me, but he's not that much older than me and And but I've always I kind of look at him as a mentor for a while. And so we started going into this. I need to tell myself. We're on the same level now. So I need to not hesitate when something is bothering me or what. I want to talk about something. And so what I tend to do is if something is bothering me I sleep on it and if it's still bothering me later, we'll chat about it, but I feel Comfortable enough that if something is bothering me I can talk to him about it and he doesn't take it personal and he doesn't get mad and he listens to it. And even if he doesn't necessarily agree, which I feel like we always end up finding some sort of Middle Ground. I think we're both really good its kind of going with our gut feeling and we have very similar gut feelings again a lot of things. Yeah, and it often I agree. You nailed it, but sounds like there's just an effort to communicate on a very regular. Always always always. Yeah, and that's and appreciate that. There will be differences miscommunications and always assume the other person made a choice for the good reason for the reason that it would best serve the Box the affiliate the other coaches whatever that's the first assumption rather than why did this person duck without the that's that's a really meta thought to write by the way, which is like the assumption is not malice, right which is where we all go to immediately back. Why will they did that? Because they're selfish and they don't want to do that when it's just like hey if I was just stop take a breath think about this for a second. Like I don't think they wanted to screw everybody over there are probably thinking about you know, this was you know, or maybe it what they were thinking of themselves which by the way is okay, but in totally normal because I am too right now. Yeah like How this make me angry. Yeah, self-preservation is a real thing. And so I think that's a really important distinction but the communication is is interesting because I think that leads to the the other thing that I want to talk about is like because you do that. Well, it's not shocking to me that you guys decided to start a podcast which is which is super important and why you reached out to me and why we're kind of doing this is because you had questions about what we do and but I have questions just like At what point did you decide to do a podcast and why for the gym? So Jack and Eric run it podcast for their gym, which I think every gym should do because going back to it like communication is key. Yeah. So as I kind of wrote that little history, we we were finding that Eric and I were talking a lot and well write like we were connecting most of the morning classes I run the morning. He's the afternoon it kind of splits about the middle of the day, even if we don't physically see each other were texting And Bob are talking about how the classes when we coach about 80% of the classes still we like the owner-operator model. We run pretty lean. But what we're finding is that the morning crew pretty consistently would be Jack's classes or Jacks and the afternoon classes where Eric screw and so we saw the difference is we talked about a lot of the athletes, but every now and then somebody from the afternoon class would come to the morning class and they would I could sense a difference in oh, like expectations of words. I would use or intention is the same intention that are could say, but just a little bit differently. And so we're like it was very serendipitous Chris Cooper. I think either wrote a blog or put out a podcast about content development should not be for the sake of developing content or you know media content, but it should be selfishly for you as a filly Owner a coach or whatever figure out how it's going to develop you and the purpose that it's going to serve for your community. And so I went well we got the oh, I like podcasts you like podcast we talk about them all the time. We talk about them with our classes weather warming up stretching afterwards. Whatever I said, let's do one. We got this nice little Nook connected to our box. We drink coffee. We always end up ended up talking after coffee. And so I think we're pretty alliterative. We came up with grounds after rounds and that's why I sign. I see the connection or a coffee or I like that and the funny thing was that the the sort of we would review coffee's for the first 10 or 15 minutes at the beginning. So it was sort of a we would buy. Yeah, we'd pick up maybe like one or two different types of cold boot bruised different brands and we would taste it and it was you know, it was our excuse to be silly. But also we're both studying or trying to study for the level 3 and We just weren't nothing was connecting. Nothing was sticking we'd like block off an hour and pick an article or whatever and it fell off about a week or two in no cards didn't work like nothing was working. So we decided alright. Well, we'll review coffee will nerd out about something with Crossfit and I noticed like Doug and Doug zakaris and Chris Chris icon there doing the 10 General physical skills a series of that. I like it. They I think they stole that from us, but that's all right. They did that's fair probably probably. Yeah. Yeah, we strike Silver Firs, but that's the space. Like that's the beauty of it. Nothing we're doing is new but it was a great resource for us to study explore things that made us uncomfortable. Try this whole like mess around with media and what it looks like and it's ebbed and flowed. We don't really review coffees anymore. But we've had different guest song we've talked about body image issues. We've talked about medical like major female and male medical issues. And then how did they Transform into the gym and and we're reaching I mean our audience I think is a lot bigger than we think it is, but it's still the ability to be a micro casting forum for us to serve our purposes and the purposes that our community says that they need what has been the feedback from the gym about the podcast. I will first. I think it's another reason was we got a lot of the talking about CrossFit out of our systems. So, why'd you have to hear about it all the time? So like we get a bro out or nerd out or whatever and it takes some of the pressure off of them from having to listen to us. So that helped but the thing that actually lately we've been doing these Fitness field trips where we decided we're going to try things outside of CrossFit just to kind of explore so we did we did jazz Sighs one of our athletes is actually a Jazzercise instructor. Nice. You wear an outfit. We just were shorts in Fairwinds t-shirts, but don't knock it. They are they are an awesome group and but that's good. There's a there's a Jazzercise like couple doors down from soy that we have and it's like I mean, they're getting it in there man, like 50 years Jason 50 years that thing has been going and it's not is not anytime soon. That's crazy, but it's But these leaves it's just been getting outside of it's been us getting us out of our comfort zone, especially with the jazzercise. But but it's just kind of exploring that yes. We are CrossFit gym. We are crossing owners we buy into CrossFit but really we just want to explore how people are moving and just encourage the people are moving. So, you know, everyone can do CrossFit but not ever cross CrossFit is not for everyone cool. There are these other avenues and if anything it's just for us to kind of explore that and It helps us dial-in more what this cross the thing is and then what other kind of stuff is out then I think people really enjoyed seeing us get a little extra silly than we normally do. Yeah, but these things for me the so I'm a big proponent of the I feel like I'm yelling inmate yelling. No. No, it's good audio. You're good. Yeah. No, you're not yelling. Thanks. I said, I feel like the the framework of observable measurable repeatable. Is one of the unknown uncelebrated elements of CrossFit that you could over emphasize it but in the end it is the thing that if you don't try to stay true to it people will lose interest quickly and so right I can observe Improvement. I can measure Improvement and then the repeatable element of it is the thing that if you can make that happen in the first week two weeks three months year you got somebody for life. And so that framework is the That we sort of when we started out with this Fitness field trips or like all right, what we want to do is take this efficacy of CrossFit as a methodology that we know we believe in and we can measure it observe it measure repeat it. Let's see if these other disciplines and practices. We don't want to say they have to abide by our rules. But do they have something analogous as a metric that they use to observe Improvement measure Improvement and then give that repeatability to their participants and their community and if they do that do they see somebody D stick yoga didn't really it's a great. I mean shoot it's been going on for five thousand years. So, you know, it's been robbed. Yeah going anywhere, but the the individual practitioners, I'm not sure it has that same element to it as what we were looking for. So it was a great one. That was a fun field trip, but it didn't didn't feel a sticky this Jazzercise. They're legit. Like they have programmed a program that methodology. There's a structure to it. They push it out like you follow it. There's Movement of steps like it has a lot of the same development and practitioner development that we do and then they have a metric they use and measure how many times you come and one of our values is consistency and we are members be consistent, you know, just pick a number and come that many times a week for three months and let us and then we'll talk about how you're doing. They're very similar. And so in that sense though, they use different language. You can tell why they've lasted they're not a fad like it's made it and that was a cool thing. We're excited think our next one. We're looking at like more Ball Sports, maybe like a there's a pickled whole group in the area and so like all right, is there does it apply does this metric apply? And so having this as an excuse for us to dig into what makes CrossFit a methodology in a program not just throw some balls of people and way to people and see what they do but there's this is helping us develop. Both as coaches as owners is To be able to talk about it. And then I think take that level 3 because we're embracing it. They the jazzercise. The one is interesting because this is something that I don't think people come to the realization of until they've been doing CrossFit for a while. So, you know, there's three pieces of coach. We're trying to achieve, you know, educate Inspire entertain. Yeah and I think people Overlook the entertainment aspect of that right and and it's easy to do and most of us do it unintentionally because we nerd out and were like, hey, this is how it has to work but there is I mean, I've been to some gyms that let's just say the coaching was not good, you know like and and nope it's not because they were resistant to Lou to continue education or anything like that. They just didn't know what they didn't know. Yeah. I tell you what the people in that gym or having a good time and the Packed and people are moving terribly and I have to take a step back and say this is a good thing like like is is back as much as I want to go in here and start correcting these movements. This is a good thing people are moving. They're having a good time and this business owner is having a positive effect and giving people, you know the best our of their day and sometimes I have to take stock in that say, okay good coaching. We got systems are people having fun. Yeah. That's why people come back like you don't leave CrossFit Gyms because they had a bad experience for the most part they lie because they because they come in different they become indifferent about CrossFit like they're just kind of like me, you know, and at that point is when you lose people burpees again. Yeah, I think the fun and maybe this is this gets a little bit more existential or a little bit, you know, philosophical and the exploration of fun. I do think entertainment simply for entertainments sake Will eventually run its course and stagnate and it becomes sort of the fast-food of Fitness right like Soldier fit or these, you know aren't them I don't want to bash on but like high intensity interval training programs. Yeah, they're freaking fun. Right you're gonna have a good time at some point. It does Wayne and so the efficacy of this program that's I think the more engaged this is where this platform this podcast is our ability. Flush that kind of stuff out. Six months in we you know, I said, you know what any box needs to challenge in might have I might have heard it on somebody's podcast somewhere or something. If you haven't done.com programming for a year, you can't really call yourself an affiliate. That is a CrossFit affiliate. You got to go back to the Mothership and try it and just do it for no other reason than to say we did it for a year. And so we talked about in the podcast I said we're going to do it screw it we're going to make it and what it really did programming aside going back to what we said. The beginning it made us better coaches because there were some days right like rowing and Cindy call again like it was it was this. Well, what do you do with that? How do you fill the our how do you make people still see that? There's something to be learned there and it it ran its course and we moved on and I think though the worth of fun doesn't mean, you know, roller coasters candy cotton candy and Browns fun can just Be hard and grind e if the intention is set correctly, if you coach the crap out of it, if you have the person's best interest in it, if you do all those other things that make you a professional not just oh here's the here's the timeline. Here's me. Here's my cats and I'm going to herd them through the our it's interesting you say that because that was going to be my question to you is like what are some of the things that what are some of the unintentional consequences of the podcast and doing.com that you guys have noticed Within Or coaching like because I like I know what it's brought for me as far as things that I've developed and I've improved at because I write a blog because I do podcast because when the YouTube channel and the the result of that were none of the things that I was trying to achieve I was just doing things like you said selfishly because I was trying to either document something or just dumped my mind on do some platform. But what did you guys find? I think people really like people really Buy in and I think it almost they feel like they're just as much a part of the conversation as to what's happening in the gym in the community as we are and so yes, we're the owners. Yes where the coaches but it's created this relationship where they feel like they're there they are and they are just as important as what's on the Whiteboard as the methodology as anything that goes on inside this building and even outside of it for me the M as a coach. I often found myself defaulting to When I did this work out or way I felt about this or you know, that sort of by the way the last hard class at the prep school was 1999 just like when I was there, yeah, you got it right like that. That's narcissistic like this is about me and I'm The Benchmark and blah blah blah, which I think for some like it still comes in every now and then if you're talking to somebody who has an athlete who's very similar and kind of moves in the same way you can Vide context and you know referential experience but what I found with these podcasts was especially when we would do one-on-one interviews with people is the patience of actually listening to somebody story ask and I think either you said it or Ackerman said it ask one more. No bending it was when you had Chuck on our cars that's that's a car as well. That's it. One more question. And I took a freaking got a second Master's in Wellness coaching, which is all about active questioning. And I still took me doing this and putting it into practice. Ask one more question. Take another breath ask somebody another question. What does it feel like? Well, where do you think it fell apart? Well, what would it feel like if it was going? Well, you know, like stuff like that of these open-ended nowise all what's where's house? What do you think and please Solutions like a providing Solutions? Like let them come to it and taking Thirty forty five extra seconds in the middle. Of a class feeling like oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. We're going to run over. Oh my God. Oh my God, wait, take a breath ask him a question. And now all of a sudden somebody goes from this like defeated internally rotated shoulder to big smiles and they're actually having fun because they're a part of the process. I saw we did an interview with this with a really close friend. She was when she started coaching here as since moved and the first time we interviewed her. I had a timeline. I didn't the questions we moved on that it the feedback I got was a script for god sakes. Yeah the back we got was why did you guys stop it seemed like she had so much more to say. Oh my gosh blah blah blah and I'm like, so we did a part 2 and I opened it with I cut you off we need to do this again. Let's dig deeper and it was an awesome. Like that was a byproduct that I've seen. An echo of my last two years of teaching at school here like everywhere of just take a breath and ask another question. What about your When it comes to the podcast or just I was just all of it in general like that communication piece. Yeah. I mean I kind of feel the same way about Jack like there's all these things that kind of come and gone. And so whether it's in the podcast and talking about things and I think with me a lot of times because I get my own head a lot as a lot of people do talking through things helps me a lot with all these other things and so sitting and talking about, you know, your episode on the Whiteboard brief. Yeah, we Throughout that one of our meetings and like how important that whiteboard brief is but also like don't get yourself caught up in it too much and like I listened to the podcast like all that stuff. I'm really makes a lot of sense and then we talked about it more and I started realizing. Oh, I really do this and I don't do this and so just that little thing I think if it take if it took made three to five minutes of my class that much better on a daily basis, then that's a win and even it was, you know said 3045 seconds. Just ask another question. So something the podcast which I think a lot of people are like what do you really have to talk about for an hour? Yeah a lot where I think we're on our now, so I mean, yeah, the thing that I've learned particularly when you have a community and that Community starts to grow as it starts to go from 10 to 15 22, whatever it's going to be a couple hundred. And this is something I've repeatedly have to and I still do to this day have to communicate to the staff is that there is no such thing as over-communicating like it is it is 100% without a doubt impossible to do because number one not everybody's on every medium. Right? Not. Everybody's checking Instagram or Facebook all the time. They're like, well, it's too many posts on like it's not a thing like that is that's a that's not how the algorithm works, but be pleased to make sure that people know what is going. On and that is a huge thing that I've learned is that when we communicate it has to go out on every medium like even if it seems like overly redundant it's like send it out. Like if you do a podcast figure out how to transcribe it and put in written form. If you do a video for how to take that and make it into a podcast like there is there's just no end to that communication like it you just need to do it. And then what you find over time is you refine it and you get better at it and you figure out different ways to spin it and you're never it's never Good enough. And that's the hard part about all of this in my his you feel like you should be mastered at some point and just like that. We put a post up on Instagram on the best our panel yesterday about programming and I feel like the communication Pieces Just Like programming. It's something you are never going to master. It is only something that you evolve into and it and that's it. And that's the point and I think the intention is always to to find the consistency of what you're trying to Say and so that's actually a question I had for you guys. Have you answered it that releasing an episode every day at this point to me from where we're coming from our perspective. I'm like man that is just that feels like over stimulation, but it would be over stimulation because it would be over stimulation for us. We're like, it's a it is now in a weekly cycle for us because the podcast is sort of the thing where We hash out the week of thoughts and you know what I mean, but for you guys it isn't it's definitely it's serving its purpose of its these little chunks of knowledge where we can you can come back to him and it becomes a resource for coaches affiliate owners and stuff that come so that's it. I'm glad you said that well, it's also their different, you know, so context matters, like if somebody was going to suggest they were going to do a daily podcast for an affiliate that would be that would that would be exhausting, you know? Once a week is plenty a Bi weekly podcast is is plenty enough for most Affiliates, but this is different just because we have so many people we want to talk to you and going back to what you said before and I've said this repeatedly on the podcast like it's selfish and you asked me a question is like why did you guys start the podcast? And the reason we started the podcast? Excuse me is because you know, how come and I talked about this for probably far too long before we started was we're having all these conversations anyway, Yeah, we were having this conversation. We were having the conversation with Chuck and at some point the the selfishness of that kind of got to me and I was like other people say I think want to be a part of this conversation. They're just not physically here. So why don't we just share that with the world? Like, why don't we just open up that that discussion to everybody because like clearly we're passionate about it. We all know there's no shortage of people that like to talk about CrossFit. So why don't we just Open that up to the world and it's been amazing and I think going back to you know, not because we're amazing. It has nothing to do with that. It's just because like we are passionate about it. Just as other people are we just happen to have resources because of because of what we do professionally, but the key takeaway and probably why your podcast is successful within your gym is because it is selfish because it provides value to you but it also provides value to everybody in your immediate circle and I think that comes as back to your original thing of why even if we are a gym of 60 people and you know our of a small little circle the reason is exactly the same your circles just a little bit bigger because you guys have access to these big name things and you serve a purpose the audience it feels you nailed it. It feels exactly the way you describe it. Like I feel like I know I the Tosh episode a nap time and talk to Tasha in a long time. He was at the Academy. He's behind the scenes a lot help them with my own gold, but it was great to hear. It was great to hear you two talking it felt like I was in the room with two guys. I know but even if I didn't know him, which I had a chance to talk to somebody who listen to the podcast and were like wow that was a really great insight into endurance training and mindset and stuff. And and so the it serves these secondary tertiary stream purposes that we don't even know that the ripple effect. It's yours is the exact same reason as ours the volume or the size of the audience doesn't matter. If it was just the truth. It's really doing it. Yeah, it's Irrelevant in the podcast that if some of them like if some of those podcasts never saw the light of day, like I selfishly would have been like I got something out of this but like we're just fortunate enough to be able to put them on this medium and go out. Yeah from a from a from an affiliate owner standpoint. I guess my practical advice would be, you know, figure pops doing a podcast as not Right like it's real. It's so incredibly easy. Like just I got an iPhone. Yeah. I have an iPhone and if you're if you're struggling with how to start that here is my bison. You guys can give me yours find the person that you find most interesting in the gym. Hmm by them coffee sit down. You don't have to tell them what you're going to talk about press record and start asking them questions. Holy and then and now side of that the other thing is, maybe you're not good at writing. But like when just pushed me just my wife when she pushed me to start writing the blog she was like you don't she's like you don't have to talk at people. She's like just tell them about yourself. Right? So I write my blog and my brought my blog is is mostly the the comedy that is my life. You don't have that many spelling and grammar errors. By the way, I disagree with you you it was a very humble brag. It's actually pretty clean buddy. I'm deaf. Well, I definitely it's evolved I would say about But like one of the things I was always very conscious of his I don't want to talk at people. I just want to tell people my story and this is like this is what I learned take it or leave it. Like if you don't read it, it's fine. It's partially not for you. Anyway, it's for me. So but the feedback that we've gotten off of that and that I've gotten personally in the feedback that we get from the from the podcast it is it's okay to be vulnerable. It's okay to say I don't have all the answers. It's okay to say like I messed up and it Fosters that community in that bond that you really really want in an affiliate, which is like people they want to get something more than Fitness out of coming into the walls of the tank. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What else we gonna I don't know you probably haven't listened to ours and I didn't tell you this in the the right of that I sent to you. So we do a thing at the end of ours Chris and Doug have their pet peeve of the week decided. We wanted to do a gratitude of the week. Oh, okay simple, you know, it can be as big as world. Peace and it can be as simple as I'm wearing these so mine is and it I'll give you so here's mine. Good Eric gave me these. We women shorts. I'm showing I'm showing Jason on the camera. Yep. He cant see it again. He's a while back and they have an insert in them like an underwear insert. Okay, like so you don't have to wear underwear. If you don't want to yep. Well the longest time I didn't like the shorts because I wouldn't wear underwear because I have the insert and it sucked or whatever. So I started wearing underwear with them and I'm really grateful that I did. I love these shorts. They're like my new shorts. It's like it just it feels you'll secure novel. I feel very snuggle. That's my gratitude of figuring out like you're still allowed to wear underwear. Even if you've got inserts in those shorts. So there you go. Eric Hanson work yesterday. Yeah, really? Yeah, the other things held together. Yeah. All right, Eric. What do you got some irons actually, so so my oldest brother Michael just celebrated his 40th birthday and so for the longest time, so my dad's name is Michael Lewis. My brother's name is Michael James. I'm Eric Michael and my brother is Steven James. And so I used to like rag my parents like yeah, right like use G Michael's been used three times. James has been used twice. I was like, why are my parents so lazy when it comes to like me and I was talking to my sister the other day and she goes who's Jennifer and so that she she got away from Shane's and I blink and she goes well, you know, why those your middle names right? I'm like, yeah, cause mom and dad got lazy. She goes no. No she goes when you and so I have a twin brother something goes when you and see him. Were born they wanted to give you each one of Michael's name's Michael and James so that that way you always had a gift from your older brother. And so the Michael James my older brother. I'm Eric Michael and me and Steven and Steven James. So we always have this gift of the name of my older brother. I was like, oh man that was so I was like, I feel like a jerk for all these years say my parents were lame. That's cool that story. So anything they were labor not tell me stories. So I'm so my gratitude is my parents and my brother and that kind of thought him behind. What I thought were just boring like middle names. I like it. I'll go to my turn. I I'm grateful for having some people in my inner circle who are free of judgment for the amount of mistakes that I make on a daily basis So for anybody, who's not yeah for anybody who's not been in the in the Inner Circle of somebody who is very entrepreneurial in nature. It can be a rough road like you just kind of have to follow this person into The Fray and hope that you come out okay on the other end and I'm lucky to have some ride-or-die people in my circle that they kind of get it and they've told me they're like we get it we're on board. It's fine like which has helped me acknowledge a lot of mistakes along the way which is well Foster. All of those relationships are like, hey guys, I really thought that up. I'm sorry. So lesson learned moving on forward, so If you can be vulnerable and you can bring those people in your inner circle life gets real good. Yeah, that's a good one man. That's a good one. All right. Jack. Oh no. Yo reader But Eric chime in here, too. What if you could recommend a book doesn't have to be a business book and I know you guys were hip to this already because you listened to the podcast but like what would it be? I forgot? No, I forgot about this house listening to one of the episodes recent as I was walking. Oh with Chris Irwin Chris Irwin. Yeah is that your says that 97 grad so is right and I just, you know, he and I rode together to while we were there. I didn't know that yeah, we were we were in a for together at the stoats not stoats at Nationals his thirsty his senior my sophomore year young. Yeah, first the youngster for all the neighborhood Diner the left over here the leftover boat and we loved it. We had the modest. Yeah, I like it. So yeah, I heard his recommendation of do work could press fields. That was a good choice, but I let Eric jump in that's what it's so books. I'm currently reading. If You Give a Mouse a Cookie Babar summer picnic and and then one about Fiona the hippo so if you Cookie don't sell that short write that whole series is about consequences yes, and it's this idea of just because you think it will like everything everything is connected everything will come back so the idea of you know Nietzsche's Eternal recurrence like the heaviness of life is that everything comes back to Uh serve its purpose also toddlers love it. So I was gonna I was gonna say don't sleep on the kids books. Yeah a lot to be learned there. Look at those like this is an amazing lesson. It is it is very difficult. Even after she's already asleep and you find yourself still reading it. You're like, oh, I guess you're enjoying. This is fun. I definitely have a list really really long. And so I was trying to think of like what's been most impactful and is come up. There's two actually that I'm going to cheat one is Nepal her Ari's sapiens, which oh, yeah, Joe writer Joe Rogan talk about that. Yeah, if you want to talk about something, he's a he's a historian and he's amazing at it his second one home a dais. I didn't think was as good but the sapiens there is a couple middle chapters that explain so much about language and the way we form and things that make me really go. Oh my gosh that totally makes sense and we are still monkeys. Yeah, it can be applied like universally as a species culturally as our country and then in the box like you can see the different levels of it and then there's one this is a straight-up nerd text. I actually sent it to Bergeron a while back and never heard anything. So, I don't know if you ever got it. So if you listen if you listen to your podcast and he hears this, you know, I don't know but he does use the phrase best out of their day quite a bit on his body, but it's called the metaphor. We live by. Okay, and it it again. It defines how language works that you can't get away from metaphors that everything we talk about is in metaphors because it is experientially powerful and it's how we Orient ourselves to things. We don't understand two things. We do understand and so we teach it tingly they loved it to the top 50 in the class that It resonates and so it's a great. Those are my two sort of if you're in this coaching space we use language as our medium to convey to people experiential importance. You need to be thinking about the language you use and that's a great book to do it. I like it. Now, I will tell you you can get away it like metaphors can get out of hand, right? So that's one thing if you get into well, this is just from a practical standpoint from a coaching and public speaking standpoint like metaphors are a great. But in small doses so right there, but do you get that's a metaphor exactly when some of there was an article recently in the morning chalk up of why still use our X and I think she's wrong. I forget who wrote it. I can't remember anymore sudden. I don't know but I know your feelings. I think she's wrong because if you look at it, it's a metaphor. It's a perspective metaphor. It's like a doctor doesn't just write things. Advil doesn't come in whatever dose you want comes in 200 milligram capsules because it has an efficacy now. You can take four carat. This is the analytical part part of Jack coming out here right now. Yeah, it does not Ray comes in a bottle of you know, 40 capsules 200 milligrams of thing because there's a there's a consistency to it. And so prescription Rx is a thing. It's just badly used a lot of times and so that greed which is a whole nother topic that we could literally do a topic just on that which we know do there you go. That's a metaphor. That's a metaphor one. One book that Jack you turned me onto which I read which is a really good one is influence great book, right? That's a great book. So if you have not read influencing your in the customer service business and you need to read influence understand all that stuff, but big takeaway for today guys learn how to communicate with your team with your partners with the community and you can do that be a whole bunch of different mediums and there is no over communication. It is not so do it awesome guys, huh? Guys got places to be thank you for time. This was fun. I appreciate it. Thanks. Yep. Thanks for listening to best our of their day. If you haven't heard about anchor it's the easiest way to make a podcast. Let me explain. First of all, it's free. How cool is that? There's a creation tool that allows you to record and edit your podcast right from your phone or computer. 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On today episode Fern sits down with longtime friends Jack Ryan and his business partner Eric Heup, they own Fair Winds CrossFit. They come from two entirely different backgrounds, with opposite skill sets. They went from the coach-athlete relationship to partners in their affiliate. It’s rare to see a business partner in a box nowadays who aren’t married or related in some ways. As that’s a difficult relationship with equal business partners, they’ve found a way to make it work. They also discuss better ways to communicate with the members in an affiliate that help foster the community and create buy-in. It all starts with their gym values: Be curious, Be consistent,  Be Courageous. They run so much a podcast for their gym and fitness field trip which are pretty cool. It’s long and informative episode make sure to take notes. Check out the extra content about this episode on besthouroftheirday.com Rate/subscribe in Apple Podcasts! Find us on Instagram: @besthouroftheirday + @thejasonackerman Check out our website - besthouroftheirday.com - to learn more about our private coaches development group. 