All right, everybody. Welcome back to the best out of their day Fern here. I'm actually super excited about this episode because I'm actually going to learn a lot. I think most of the CrossFit Community would be very well served listening to this because what we are going to do is we are going to pull back the curtain on a lot of the courses their credentials how it all works what the hell's the difference between the level 1 level 2 level 3 level 4 and I have no better person here with me to do that than Amy Hollingsworth and she is also an affiliate.So she not only she's not only the certificate certification program manager for CrossFit H cube is she is an affiliate owner. And what's cool about our relationship is that we are literally on opposite coasts, but I have over the years had many of Amy's members who have made their way via the military from west coast East Coast who are now training at my gym, which is really really cool. So thank you. So I'm trying to think I've got at least four five over the years. That is so cool. Yeah, it's awesome. Good hands. Well, it's always it's always it's always refreshing because I know coming so Amy's husband. Dan Hollingsworth is also on some of our staff so I know what kind of coaching they got coming to our gym, and I know that they're going to get a very similar environment and coaching coming here. So it's always it's always a very easy transition for those folks but cool. So real quick. How does one? What is your background? Like, how do you become? Certification program manager for an entity like forget CrossFit like why does that work? That's a really interesting question because I came about this. I think you know, I'm not really sure how someone would do this in a general organization. But how I did this my background is in Allied Health Care and so I was a speech pathologist and I was the rehab manager for a local hospital system and I was responsible for 35 Staff including physical therapists occupational therapists. Speech Biologists and I also had a physician in the nursing staff from a wound clinic and part of one small aspect of my duties. I was helping my staff become, you know, get the their continuing education that is required for their licensure and one year. We the hospital wasn't doing super well and we had all of our continuing education benefits. Completely slashed so yeah, so my staff went from having nine hundred dollars a year to put towards continuing education to 0 and I had to do a ton of research to figure out what I was going to do to help these people and so I just started getting into the Weeds about what the actual requirements were and I learned a ton myself even having a background in, you know, knowing that I needed CEUs to maintain my licensure. I didn't really know a lot about the process. So I just became super focused on what things needed to And long story short, I because I knew so much about that process when when they we were standing up the level 3. I have reached out to Nicole and said hey, I hear you're doing this certification process and I know a lot about continuing professional development if there's an opportunity to become involved I'd like to do that. And so that was kind of my entry into it is I helped with the professional development piece of it and then just kind kind of fell into the accreditation piece and so that it kind of morphed into this whole process for me. This was back in 2012. Oh this was okay. So this is not recent. Yeah. Okay. Got it. Okay, I ask that because I believe Nicole's words were Amy's superpower is getting things a certified. Yeah, so I actually I think what you said was my superpowers getting things accredited. That's right. That's what it was. Yeah, exactly. And so, you know the it somewhat fell into my lap how how this all came to be but Because that through that process I was just understood how to figure out how to make how to meet a certain standard, you know, there's a problem standard and so I want to take what we're doing and ensure that we're meeting the standard sometimes exceeding the standard so that we can you know move forward basically. So on that note was like and feel free to talk about this at whatever level you want. Like, what is the like why was it so important about Like to to make these courses accredited like why like why should people understand that that's a big deal other than just like, I've got my level one and having it accredited actually does mean something versus it not being accredited. Yeah. I think there are two levels here one is accreditation is basically a voluntary process that an organization undertakes. So it's something we chose to do. And the reason you choose to get accredited as basically a validation to show the public. Like that, you're serious about having a high quality program. And then number two is there are certain occupational licensing organizations or you know, governments or entities that will require that certain credentials are accredited. So, you know, we're super fortunate in this in our industry that we haven't gone that route yet. And I know CrossFit HQ is taken multiple. Steps to fight any efforts to license the fitness industry, but you know, we're going to other organizations or other professions might not have that opportunity to to choose to do that. What's your what's your personal thoughts on licensure in general coming from a previous profession that did require licensing versus the fitness industry. I guess it's kind of depends on your occupation, but it is, you know, honestly, it's a slippery. a slope because I came from you know, physicians physical therapist let nurse like all of those folks are are licensed and by law and it's I think you know it depending on kind of if you get really philosophical about occupational licensing, you know, there's the thought that it's protects the public and then there's the thought that you know, it's somewhat of a rack it in that what it does is it It provides a barrier for other people to get into the space. And so I think there has to be a balance and what we have right now is a system that requires licensure for certain professions. And I think it's just their needs to their need. We need to have some sort of public awareness of just kind of the whole landscape of Licensing so that it doesn't get out of control. Yeah, the is there any I'm trying to think of how to ask this question. So it makes sense does being accredited help in any way shape or form in the event licensure does hit the fitness industry. Oh, absolutely. Okay. Absolutely. Yeah, because again, you know, it's something that the government is is used to looking at you know, if you look at the Department of Defense you could you could name a whole, you know slew of things that they require to be accredited whether it's Options or whether it's you know programs or you know, they credit products. So, you know, if the if a part that has to go into an airplane, you know those types of things and go the government is used to looking for that level of validation when it's looking at considering that kind of you know, obviously we don't weed a particularly in I say we CrossFit doesn't really want Since you're to come into the fitness industry, I just I know coaches is pretty adamant about that. But in the event that it did would this kind of how or where would this put, you know, the CrossFit trainers whether it's level 1 level 2 level 3 in kind of a better spot in the event that starts coming down the pipe and they're just like hey now you have to be license. Is that does that help us in any way? Well helps from the perspective of what would happen What likely would happen is? Licensure would say in order to become licensed. You need to have an accredited credential got it. Okay. Okay, that makes sense. The other thing that and I remember reading this in a couple of blogs that the rustles did you like while ago that they like the different governing bodies for accreditation. So CrossFit uses and Z so ans I but what are the other one? I don't yeah, there's somebody there so the what so we use and Z, which is American National standards Institute. Is that correct? Yeah, right. And then what's different about that one from some of the other ones so that the other main organization that other people will Fitness industry go through is the NCCA? Which okay. Now I'm going to mess this up. It's the Channel 4 de no I should look it up for you because I don't recall what that what the acronym stands for. But essentially there are National body so they only have credit. Programs in the US. Okay and C is actually a member of the international coordination Forum which is an international body that establishes standards. So when you have your accredited by an see your accredited to an international standard, okay, what's cool about that as they take subject matter experts from around the world and establish best practices. No problem. How are you? Good? Good, they establish standards based on you know, International considerations, which I think is amazing because especially for us because we have trainers all over the world. And so what we want to be able to do is take input from you know, what's important to other countries and you know, they're always going to be considerations that people nationally wouldn't okay. Okay. So now And then so typically what are most so like like I'm the only one the ones that come to mind or like the CPT or the cscs, like what's different about those are they accredited by different bodies? Like it's the stuff that funds the falls under like ACSM or nsca. You know what there is our yeah, they're all they're all accredited through the NCCA. Okay. Got it. Okay, so that that larger governing body is that's considered in the kind of is that Considered the anzi that's considered ending is that considered a better because it's International or is it just considered different? Well, we would say it's better. Yeah and would say that the requirements to meet the international standards are much more rigorous and much more challenging and so we would say it's actually easier to meet the NCCA standard which is why Morgan isn't organizations do that. That it's the national commission for certifying agencies. That's what the hottest. Okay. Yeah. I was like, I remember I remember there was two different ones and I just didn't have the information from the article on the tip of my tongue. But okay so do like I did the other thing. I don't think people understand is how long it is to make this happen like what the like how long it takes to get a program or a course accredited like it's not just I submitted online application they come back and they Say you're good there. It's a significant process that take that not only takes a long time to get online. But then takes a continuing effort to keep it accredited over the years. Yes. I mean, it's substantial and I think so. I came into the process. Like I said in 2012 Nicole had already done a tremendous amount of work to get this rolling and we were finally accredited in 2000. 15 is that right? That sounds right. Yeah, I should know this off the top of my head right? It's been a while this point though. I mean we got that. I'm pretty sure that's right. I'm almost positive. That's right actually and so, you know the process entails, you know, you've got to have so many you've got to complete a job task analysis. And that is you you survey members of the community and you What are the knowledge skills and abilities you need to do this job and then based on that you put together an example blueprint and then you have to you know, provide have people go through the examination on kind of like a beta test and then you have to analyze that data. So I mean it's there's so many steps to the process and not only is it a lot of time there's a tremendous amount of money, you know, we're hiring testing Consultants. We hire psychometrician is were hiring. Accreditation Consultants, they're auditing our work. They're telling us. Hey, you need to beef up your ability to do this this and this and it's real and then also, you know, we've got our peers from within the CrossFit community. So we had a lot of subject matter experts that came in and did the, you know kind of analyze the job task analysis and the exam the print and then and then actually the process for writing the exam, you know, that was all Guided by consultants and High level Professionals in the community and it was you know, it was a long arduous really rigorous process. And so I think that you know, we take a lot of pride in the product we put out it's it's an amazing in the exam itself is an amazing exam and it's no joke, you know, I think the people who you're good Dallas. Well not the reason I bring that up is because you know the specifically the You know folks outside of the CrossFit Community would give the level one specifically some flak and be like, oh, well, you took a weekend course and then take a test, you know to which my argument is always. Well, I don't have to take any, you know in person instruction to become a certified strength and conditioning specialist. Right? Like I can just literally as long as I have a degree I can register for the test and I can go take that test and I can pass or fail so I think there's just a misunderstanding about how all of this works. Now the function of all of it in the fitness industry, right, you know, and that actually is a really good segue to talk about the difference between education training and certification or just to follow up on what you just said, you know, I there is not there's nobody on seminar step. There's nobody from within each queue that said once you take that level 1 you have you know, everything you need to know about being a fitness trainer and you never need to do anything more. No, that's like exactly that is the complete opposite of what we end the weekend with where we say this Is literally your first step in this life long journey like you are you are not even close to being done. It's like it's like in a 24-hour day let the level one is you waking up and getting out of that like that is the first of the whole equation, you know, right? Yeah, and it's just it's kind of frustrating because you know that statement it's really kind of an ignorant statement and the flip side of that is Wyatt why it's so why it's such an important first step in you know, this, is that it Hands on you. Are you are actually doing something. It's a participatory experience. And I think that's why it sets up sets people up well for their for their journey and Fitness training, so so explain to people what the difference between like how like, what should they know like so people are always looking for continued education, whether it's like some sort of or whether it's an actual piece of paper or certificate or something. What should they understand about education versus Training versus certification. Okay, so education the way I like to think about it as kind of like the overarching theoretical. Information. So an example of that is an example of education is teaching people why it's important to squat. Okay training is I'm going to teach you the skill to train others how to squat. Okay, and then certification is I am going to assess you to determine if you've taken everything you've learned over the course of your profession and see if you can demonstrate competence. Okay. So the level one would Encompass what so at least Education and Training, but I know there I know there's a there's a there's a pretty definitive cut off between a certificate versus a certification correct and so a certification so certain so a certificate program is much different than a certification program and the level 1 and level 2 like you mentioned our certificate courses and a certificate course. Means that there is a set defined learning objectives, you are provided instruction that teach to those learning objectives and then you may or may not test to see if there's Mastery of those learning objectives. The seriously certificate course does not have to include a test does not have to got it. So that's so so in that regard across the level one is going above and beyond for a certificate course, correct, God and so Then just some you know, some basic things about certificates is that they typically do not issue. You know, there are there typically are no ongoing requirements as far as professional development, but they're typically are there's a validation period of validity period yes, like level one will choose five years correct or in another really good example of that is like CPR, right? You passed the test and in three or two years you need to repeat that training because it's only valid for two years. Yeah, we're not saying you didn't do the training or that the training is necessarily outdated. But what we're saying is in order to keep up with a certain level of skill, then we're saying you need to repeat it you like like we have a revalidation system for those resources. And I think that people understand because there are some people and again, they just don't know what they don't know. They think that CrossFit mandates that they come back every five years and that I don't CrossFit doesn't have any say-so in there. Like that's that is mandated in order to keep an accurate like an accredited course. Well, correct. So there's a validity period that is required. And so and that's an industry standard. That's that's just what high quality certificate programs do is they establish. The validity period is and they expect that you revisit that information and along that timeline. So that's yeah, that's not something that we pull out of thin air. Yeah the and I'm trying to think back in the timeline. I want to say the level 1 course obviously it was originally not tested and I want to say became tested and like 2011 and then accredited in 2015. I want to say that's like that's a very rough timeline, but that's I feel like actually it was a credit in a 2010. N oh, really? Okay. Yeah, this is yeah, we're going on nine years of credit Asian for the level one, but oh, that's right, but that's when okay, if I remember because that's when they moved away from if I'm not correct. If I'm correct. That's when they moved away from testing and getting results. I'm sorry analyst for up to us. I think is that when they moved from testing and getting on site. Might be I'm not the person I thought on that. Okay, I remember I just remember there was like a period in there where you had to your credential was no longer good. He was in that five-year period you had to you had like so long like because they had gone through the accreditation process. Yes, and that's exactly right. So you had in order to have the accredited credential you had your given that time frame. I think is important. So timeline is important here guys. So you need to think about the this has been a decade long process and is only can improve or time. So and we're going to talk a little bit about the level 2 and level 3 and then we'll kind of give you as much as we can and that is coming online. So but a level 3 I think is Five years old and that is Amy's that's kind of her swimming. So Amy kind of governs the certification or the program. She's a manager for program for that for the level 3 specifically so she we're going to get we're going to do a deep dive in level. But okay, so the yeah, so I think that I think that timeline is correct. We had like a really small window to get that like to get up to speed. Otherwise, your credential was no longer any good and then When trying to think so I came on staff in 2013 and that's when the I think that's when really when a lot of the kind of revisions and oversight really started to hit hard with regard to how the programming held up. The course was facilitated. We're like, there was some hard there's like some really hard wickets that you have to hit with regard to presenting course. Otherwise, you can lose that accreditation. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, it's it the process is its yearly So every year we're submitting just a massive doc mounts of documentation to show that when you know that we continue to meet the standard and and then assessors say hey, these are the standards. You're not meeting you need to fix these and so that's you know, it's that kind of back and forth and the test is all in the test gets revised as well. So if anybody has taken a lot, of course you remember the when it gets briefed at test time they say hey, there are five test questions on here that don't count towards Or against you and so that's part of the accreditation process as well to make sure that the questions are appropriate in that overall picture of keeping a course accredited as well. So okay. Yeah, so there's a standard that speaks to having a fair and reliable exam and so we have to and you know, that's all part of how we how you manage reliability is constantly refreshing and it's a lot hot super hard with the level 1 because of the exposure. I mean, you know, the hundreds of thousands of people that take that exam that Just you know keep it keeps everybody on their toes with that whole test refresh reliability issue. But yeah, that's why there's like verbage and all of the like in the test briefing about like not discussing the test and all that stuff and then the the level to that's going through some changes. So that's going to change as far as that certificate, but I don't remember it. Does that is that course also accredited? I feel like I should know that but I like it is not. Okay and and it It's in its and not because that one is it's a kind of a unique course and I feel like that is has a lot to do with it. It is so it's harder standardized course like the level to the so, you know, it's it's just it's just a harder process. It's certainly something we've discussed and you know, we'll see down the road it might that might change and actually the change with the with the change in the new test that also might streamline that process but Right now I honestly don't know. Yeah, but what if you know what the decision for that is, so yeah. So for those of you who don't know this is not kind of secret information. This is already been released. I don't know what the timeline for that is or what the specifics are. But for the level to you, there will no longer be a test on site there will be a test that you can take after the course kind of I guess like the easiest way to kind of like you would take the judges course, you know. So for the for the open, but but it would be for your level 2 so that will no longer be tested on site. I'll be tested post taking the course to get that certificate. So that's going to be a change. So it's not going back to what it was before. It's kind of like an intermediate between those two we're used to just take a level 2 and it was more participatory than anything. But yeah, so for the standard for those of you that have not taken your level to the reason that when is probably again in my limited knowledge more difficult to get accredited. Is because of the uniqueness of the course meaning most of that is personalized feedback to the coaches that come in and take that course. So be incredibly difficult to standardize individual feedback across however, many tens of hundreds of thousands of athletes that are coming through the level to course, correct. So so now when you transition I want to get into a little bit which is your kind of specific swim Lane in this whole process, which is your Baby is the level 3. So for those of you that have not sat for the level 3 it is no joke, right. It is a full-fledged for our test. And if I tell people all the time do not go into that. Thinking that it's going to go. Well like it is a very difficult test most. I don't know what the numbers are but like the failure rate is not low. It's pretty significant, which I think is a testament to the test. Yeah, and we don't we don't actually publish the pass rate. I think what we're waiting for in regards to that as just a few more years of data. Yeah. It was so it was accredited in the fall 2015, you know. The the seminar staff actually took that the exam is part of the beta. Yep, you're before so it's really still a pretty young exam. And so we want to get make sure we've got a lot of really good Data before we start pointing that out to the public but you know, the past rate is the pass rate as far as it doesn't really impact individuals per se because yeah, you know whether or not someone else past has no impact on whether the next person is going to pass because it's not You know, it's based on there's a there's an absolute cut score and you either meet the cut score or you don't is can you tell like you know, how many people have taken it? Can you release that information? Like how many people have actually gone through that course? Oh, well, it's not a course. So the example. Yeah, so that's a good place to start actually have taken that test and then we can talk about the difference between the course and what makes it a certification. Okay, so, oh gosh have you don't know that's fine. But I don't know how many people have taken the exam because my the data that I get includes people who have retaken it as well, but I can tell you I can tell you there are approximately. 1100 almost 1200 people who have who are Level 3 is he CFT level 300 people who have the credential so that's probably I mean that's definitely less than 1% of CrossFit trainers out. There. It is. Yeah, like significantly less than 1% because I want to say that that want that CrossFit level one trainers like something to the tune of 120 to 150. A hundred weight. Okay. That sounds great to me as well. So yeah, I mean if you talk of if you look at percentages within the the credentialed staff of in CrossFit or the credentialed professionals within CrossFit, yeah, it's a really small percentage. You know, of course, we'd like to see that grow and but but the reality is it's not a it's not a pig sign up check in the box show up, you know, if you've got a pulse you'll pass and you know you go on your Merry way. It's a serious professional. Prudential yeah, so so let's talk about that. So what makes that level three different right? So what's the difference between me your ticket course and what now we've moved into the realm of like I hold a certification. Okay. So certification means assessment of basically of the breadth of a Professional Knowledge base. So the knowledge skills and abilities that you need to be a certain professional and so it's not based on. On any coursework it's not based on any specific items. It's basically this whole broad view of do you mean a minimum level of Competency to actually do this job? So it's very Broad in scope. That's why I always I always that's why I always struggle when people ask me like what should I study for the level 3 and I'm like everything I like it's really tough in that regard because there's no one place. It's not like hey, if you read through this book or this like it's it is really a very very broad assessment of one's coaching skills in general. So like technical knowledge with a great programming nutrition your visual perspicuity with regard to seeing movement like all of that stuff right now, but that said there is a there's a Content outline that is that forms the exam blueprint, right? So, you know you go you can look at how much how many questions are going to be involved with coaching or how many fans are going to be involved with classroom management that kind of thing in the exam questions are written to the content outline meaning if you see a knowledge skill or ability. That's that's described in the content outline. We're going to ask you a question that you should be able to apply if you are competent in that knowledge base you should be able to apply that knowledge and answer that question properly and that is that's yet. No, it makes perfect sense to me and this is where I This is where I think people get hung up because in a lot of instances on trying to like I couldn't give away any of the questions if I wanted to because I don't remember because I took it five years ago, but it's much less like you know, it the answers are it is a multiple choice test, but they do all of the questions require a very broad comprehension of the topic. So a lot of it is not just like you know is this This the right hand or the left hand is like the most bait like it's like do you understand like the overarching principle and how it would be applied in the kind of this scenario? That's what I that's what I think makes it very challenging. Yeah, and that's exactly right. So, you know, we also provide some online study materials and what we say is the questions aren't the exam items are taken from the study materials what we're providing the study materials for is if you if you look at the content outline and let's say it here. Let me give you an example so content outline. Your programming is you should be able to adjust programming based on performance and goals. Okay, so that that's a pretty broad Super Bra. Yeah Super Bra. So maybe we have some study materials that address programming for different performance levels different goal levels different ability levels those kinds of things. So the study materials are there to help you develop the ability to apply. That knowledge to that particular exam item. Yeah, the the guidance I generally give people is if you are not in a an affiliate actively coaching and instructing CrossFit on on almost a daily basis. You should probably not sit for that test. Yeah, I mean practical experience coaching is critical. It's absolutely critical. So there's yeah and I think that's that's so so a lot of people and I think the you know, Which is strange because we're five years into this but I think people are now really starting to understand the value of the level 3 because and if you kind of think about that, nobody really got it five years ago. There was like, okay cool. It's another course that crossfit's going to make money on blah blah blah, which is probably not the case. But but this as CrossFit matures as the affiliate Community amateurs as coaches mature because realistically Lee like there's still a fairly new kind of environment that we're all operating in relative to Fitness like overall that is now a separator like now there are people will start looking for people who have a level 3 because it it is very much a clear delineation between somebody's knowledge and skill set versus the next person and I think Nicole said this, you know as she does, you know, very very succinctly is absent of any Information about this person. It tells me that they know what they're talking about, right, you know, like outside of the fact that like are they an asshole or we'll all of that other stuff but it does tell me that they have like a significant amount of knowledge with regard to CrossFit in its entirety. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, it's just it's somewhat it's what it speaks to is someone who's taken that next level to show that they're competent and to show that they're serious. it's about you know, maintaining professional credential that is going to insist that they have ongoing professional development and ongoing coaching hours and it, you know, just puts them in a level of you know, as if we were licensed they're taking that voluntary step to maintain the standard of if we were license while we're not yeah, so on that note, so that's actually a good little like kind of pivot there which is the how to see Use fit into this whole game. So this is not once you take the level 3. There's kind of two ways. You can keep their credential one. I can do my CEUs in that timeframe. But if I don't then I would have to resit for that exam. Correct, correct? Yeah. So the the / the research part of the standard is you have to have established we certification requirements in our research education requirements are CEUs ongoing coaching hours. Maintenance of your CPR and and CEUs so for you know, continue education CEUs continuing education units, some people call them credit some people call them, you know, whatever we call them CEUs. It basically is just a standard of measurement for our spent in ongoing education. So what are the what are the what's the hours required for to maintain the credential for the flowers? Yeah. Hours every three years with yards every three years. So nothing crazy got to get roughly 15 hours of CEUs annually in order to maintain your credential, correct. And then how many our what's the hours requirement of coaching, you know, I don't know what that is actually 300 300 got it. Okay, so not an incredible amount, but you want to know something interesting when we launched the credential it was 900. For maintenance. Yes, that's more than its required to sit for the exam. Yeah, is it still with his 700 750 750 to if you decide your path one. Yeah and 50s. Yeah, so there's two paths or 600 talk about that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so to finish this episode we launched it at night 900 hours every three years and then we quickly realized that was just not. Hannibal and so it's so hot it is a lot it is a lot. And so we change that to 300. I think it's a lot more reasonable and but you know, there's some if you're again holding a professional credential there's no reason you can't maintain a hundred contact hours per year of coaching. But okay so path One path to per credit are so accreditation standards that we adhere to require that you have an alternative pathway from your own instruction. So we can't require someone to take CrossFit training in order to be eligible for this exam. So one pathway is you can get your level on your level 2 and then you have 750 hours of training others utilizing the cross it methodology Pathway to is you can have 1500 hours of strength and conditioning coaching at the Professional level. So an example of that is your the strength coach for the baseball team at UCLA. Okay, or you order the strength coach for the Seattle Seahawks? Okay. Don't that type of thing got it. And then those do they still have different names like it wasn't one though the CFL three and then the other one was CC ft. Or am I saying that right? No so actually so here. This is a good part of clarification as well. So the actual credential is called. Uh CeCe ft the certified Cross Fit trainer that is if that acronym is the actual accredited certification. Okay, the level 3 is a CrossFit specific designation. It's gotten me get the people who have passed have come up have passed the exam coming through pathway one got it. So you're if you're the strength coach and you apply the a pathway to you don't have a CrossFit level 3, don't you just love a CTF to okay? Yeah, okay. Yeah, I thought that was interesting and I even though like somebody like it would be interesting like I would I'd be curious how many people and I'm you probably don't even have this information have gone through Pathway to like I just don't know. I don't know how successful you would be on the sitting for that exam. If you were not had not come through the theater the other the other pathway. Yeah, we yeah, it's still a pretty small number. You know, I don't know. I haven't separated out that pass rate. But you know, it's it is why I think that I think there's avenues for both people to be successful. So yeah, but yeah, I mean, it's just it's just part of you know, because can you imagine what a racket that is you develop a certification and you say the only way you can get this as if you take all of my courses here. Yeah, absolutely and people would be like, yeah, you just want more money and it's just like that and that would be Valid gripe. So when I saw that I was like, oh that's that's a and 1500 hours in the strength and conditioning. That's it. This is significant. That's not chump change and in the rationale behind that is okay. So you don't have their has what they ask for some sort of equivalency and you know, the reality is that that's a really tough thing to decide but you know, we have it. We have a board of subject matter experts that consider all of these things and what we looked at was well people coming from the strength conditioning Community. Maybe they should have additional hours in lieu of any type of training requirements. And so, you know, it is what it is. It's been reviewed. It's been approved and here we are five years later, you know, four and a half years later. But yeah, the the issue is that you have to give people the opportunity to have an alternate pathway the and the real takeaway. I would really want people to walk away with is the amount of time resources money that CrossFit is putting behind like making this pipeline legitimate like far more legitimate than most. If not any other trainer credentials that you could have because of the requirement. I mean somebody who has a level 1 level 2, you know level 3 and then we can chat a little bit about the level for like that is a significant journey and tells me a lot. A lot about you as a professional, you know, which is not the case if I'm just going to you know, like if you if you have the CPT, which is a certified personal trainer through ACE. I mean, you can just take that test like that's the book you study the book and you take the test where you don't study and you could just don't like I took the Cs, you know folder so I took the cscs. I did not study one second for that test. I look like I was able to apply because I have a degree so my degree is in economics, by the way. So I register for the test. I went took the test. So there's that's two-part test. So that is I forget what they're called. I'm going to butcher these names but it one is like basically the practical application and the other one is like applied sciences or something of that nature Breeze through the practical application and then failed the applied sciences portion because that one that portion of the test is very specific to the study material, which I had not studied because they want very specific answers and for somebody who's looking For a little bit more specificity on that if they're talking about caloric needs for an athlete like they want a specific answer based on the athletes in the parameters that they gave you which in large part would not fall in line with what we believe would be calorically required for an athlete and and macro distribution as well. So that's the kind of stuff. We're I am going to sit for it and take it again, but I'm gonna have to crack a book for that so that because I'm going to have to study to that test in order to pass the test and Actually just hit on a really important information of why licensure itself is really scary because the potential for licensure is that there would be somebody that is not a subject matter expert making decisions about that exam question needing to be is it their nutrition standards are nutrition standards. Someone else's nutrition standards and and and really what the answer should be. Is a nutrition standard and you know what, I mean, it's kind of like having a state-sponsored religion. We don't want anyone or state picking one, right? We want like really just Freedom right? No matter matter what you believe or don't believe you get to pick not we're not going to tell you so so actually that's like she a good kind of like little mini discussion is why I should CrossFit trainers actually forget that trainers in general. Should they be a little bit weary of licensure in the fitness industry. Like if you want to elaborate more a little bit more along the lines of that what you were just kind of talking about like why should we be worried about that? Well, you should be worried because the I think traditionally the people bought that are driving those driving that whole process have potentially their own interest in mind where they, you know other drafts that we've seen in certain states have said you need to be accredited by this body or you need to have a credential from this organization where they're specifying. Who gets to be the purveyor of of our profession that's total and utter bullshit. Yeah, and if you want to do a deeper dive into that, I think it's keeping Fitness legal is that now the name of the blog I believe so, I mean those guys have covered this that I could never even you know summarize for you. But I mean, it's you know, it's the issue is if you if you look at what the Goal, if somebody's goal is to prevent someone else from having a share in the market. Then you really need to be concerned that maybe they don't have your best interest at heart. Yeah. I think the big takeaway is like to fold that's like hey, it is somewhat of a racket to limit Market competition, but more importantly I think there's a confusion generally on the consumer and that having a license means that like, there's some sort of like specific professional. Element behind that person which is not the case like in a lot of those instances. It means I just paid for the license like without any sort of credential behind it. Meaning. I just had this piece of paper that means I'm licensed to do this thing, but it doesn't speak to it's not based on professional development and qualifications reach to be at a certain level within a specific industry, which I think is the bigger takeaway is that being license and the way that it's trying to come down via legislation isn't not going. You mean that somebody is good at what they do correcto. So cool. That's a lot. So what else if anything should people know about level 1 level 2 or just that kind of certification process in general. Well, I think you know what I always recommend is you need to start with your goals. What are your goals? Right and if your goals are to receive the highest quality Education and Training You go and you take your level one if your goals are then to advance your you know, your your training your ability to train others and you go in your take your level 2. Alright, if your next goal is to kind of commit to a higher level of professional standard. Then you decide you're going to sit for your level for the CFT examination. And then part of that process is ongoing professional development and maintaining that certification. Asian so, you know, it's all about what what are your goals? What do you want to do? And then you decide where to go from there? Yeah, and then I think the the burning question on a very small percentage of the population because only those people less than 1% is even qualified to potentially get there the follow-on kind of the last credential would be the level 4 so we can't give you specific dates or too much on that but I know there's always been like the level 4 has been like this myth that kind of floats around. Like a little it's the yellow corn right important and I think I think it does warrant a discussion about kind of like why that has been this kind of cloud if you will that kind of sits up there and because of the uniqueness of it and you think about certifications credentials to my knowledge. I this what CrossFit is trying to do with a level 4 has literally never been done before. Yeah, I mean Mean, so it's pretty epic. And you know, we're anxious to release it. We really are but like everything CrossFit does you know we're doing it the right way we're engaging in a process that people don't even know can't even comprehend that goes into standing up and a credential like that. And so the level 4 is also going to be a certification meaning and have eligibility requirements. It's going to toss test a broad range of knowledge skills and abilities. It's going to have Vacation requirements with ongoing professional development all of those things. So it fits in that certification box. And so the other part of that is that we have to have a reliable fair and reliable exam and so building that's the part that I think is sticky the people don't understand is like the so there's the there's the course but then the way in a coal is explaining it was and I'm not going to give away anything that is super specific but the accredited tours Within In the organization have to go through a pretty significant kind of want to say a creditor. Is mean or assessors is probably a better word for that have to go through a pretty nauseating process to make sure that that assessment process is is pretty standardized across because so you can imagine you know, if I if there's whatever we'll just use the whole CrossFit similar stuff. There's let's just say there was 200 level one and level two trainers total and then let's say Picked I'm just making these numbers up. So don't hold me to these guys. Let's say you picked 10 of them out of there who are going to be level for assessors. Those four are those 10 people would have to have a very reliable consistent means of assessment across the board regardless of who they were assessing or where or what combination they were put in so that really is the struggle and currently that is is dying to be sorted out. So I mean, yeah, so I mean the the whole the whole evaluation development so that we refer to the level the the CCF T is an examination. We refer to the level for the C CFC as an evaluation. So for the evaluation, you know, the evaluation has to be written and then it has to be you know, like you said the Raiders will have to be trained to give that assessment and then that all of that piece has to be an I used by testing Consultants psychometricians all of that kind of stuff and it's this continuous process and it's like I've said it's super rigorous and it's super time-consuming. And so what we're doing is putting putting into play the really important steps laying the foundation really strong foundation for I mean a pretty Kick-Ass evaluation. It's going to mean it's going to be just kind of like, I think when the CCF tea came out and people, you know, everyone's excited they ration don't know. Like oh shit, you know, you know, it's not I would say any certification in general that CrossFit puts out is not to be rushed into lightly. It's a serious Cannon. It's a serious Endeavor. You have to you have to know why you're doing it and have you know, it's not just a check in the box. It's not just because you want a bunch of letters behind your name. It's because you take the process seriously. down, you know approach it with a little bit of respect because I mean to be blunt, you know the shit. You need to know your shit your shit. Yeah. Yeah, and I think I think the frustration is people are anxious to do it. However, it could because the reality is like CrossFit could have put it together and put it on the street and and we could do this process and we could we could slap level 4 and people that would be you know, the organization deemed worthy but it wouldn't be legitimized by an outside party which I think is why they're taking You kind of the long slow approach to this so that long-term 10 15 20 years from now like that credential actually means something it's not I got up. I got a sticker, you know and says, I'm loving the T-shirt, right? You know, honestly, I that's a really good assessment of it. And I think that one of the things that's most exciting for me is the feedback that I see that people who undertake this process and I have a feeling it's going to be the same. Rim see the same feedback for the level for that people say I learned so much and I grew as a coach during this process. So whether even people who failed have come back and say I failed and I'm disappointed but I'm going to do it again because I've learned so much. I become a better Coach. So you know who the real winners are is the whole Community because what they're getting is more experience more confident. A competent and more just aware coaches out there that are that are really serving this community. And to me that's that's pretty phenomenal. Yeah. I mean, I don't I can't actually can't think of a better way to end this podcast. I think those are great great summation of like why this process is important why CrossFit and and HQ is spending so much time trying to make sure that this, you know came online stays online and then they follow oh and courses will do the same thing. So awesome. I think that was a good kind of clarification on a lot of kind of weird little Miss misunderstandings about the whole process and the courses in general. So thank you. I learned something. Yeah, it was great. Absolutely. If you guys have questions about in this stuff just hit us up in the DM and we'll be happy to hand those off to a me and like I said like this is kind of straight from you know the head shut up. Our about what's going on why it is the way it is and I think you guys should be excited. So the level 4 is coming it's coming it's going to happen. But if you have not taken your level 3 and you want to pursue your professional to them as a coach, I highly recommend the level 3, but you know as Amy and I have both stated it is not something to be taken lightly. You should spend some time with your face in a book. You should spend some time coaching and athletes on the floor and and be prepared for a rigorous. You know test of your knowledge, so anything else no, I just think thanks for having me and awesome. It's great. Listen, if I know you guys are mad because we never send any people to Washington, but nobody goes from Virginia Beach to Washington. But if they do I'm sending in week. It's that CrossFit. So appreciate that awesome that's have any other questions. Please send them our way and we be happy to get answers for you. Via a me. Me certification team. So awesome. Thank you so much for your time. I know you're busy. So we appreciate it. Yeah, absolutely. My pleasure. Awesome. Thanks for listening to best our of their day. If you haven't heard about anchor it's the easiest way to make a podcast. Let me explain. First of all, it's free. How cool is that? There's a creation tool that allows you to record and edit your podcast right from your phone or computer. So it becomes super simple some of these episodes with Fern or Todd or myself chatting with one another we've done right within the app itself. Anchor will make it easy to distribute your podcasts to all platforms Spotify apple and many more and you can make money from your podcast with no minimum listenership. It's everything you need to make an awesome podcast in one place. All you have to do is download the free anchor app or go to Anchor dot f m-- to get started today. Come on, who doesn't have Spotify at this point and if you were unaware Spotify Now is offering podcast. That's right on Spotify. You can listen to all your favorite artists, but also podcasts in one place for free Spotify is a huge catalogue of podcast on every topic including the one you're listening to right now best our of their day on Spotify. You can follow your favorite podcasts, so you never Miss an episode premium users can even download episodes to listen to offline wherever you are something I always do before I hop on a plane and you can even easily share what you're listening to with your friends on Instagram and other social media platforms. Here's the deal if you haven't done so already be sure to download the Spotify app search for best our of their day on Spotify or browse some other podcasts if you want you can find them in your library tab And also make sure to follow me. So you never miss an episode of best our of their day. Thanks again for listening to best our of their day. Just a reminder Fern and I have an amazing new show called dropping in premiering on our YouTube channel in early 2020. Be sure to head over to the best hour of their day YouTube channel now subscribe so you don't miss any of the episodes you've probably Heard us talking about it summarizing some of our trip. You can see some highlights up on our Instagram as well at best our of their day, but I promise you you're not going to want to miss out. So subscribe now. Thanks for everything you do. Thanks for letting us be a part of your lives. Hope you have a great rest of your day tune in tomorrow for another episode of best our of their day.
On today’s episode, Fern sits down with Amy Hollingsworth, the Certification Program Manager for Crossfit and owners Kitsap Crossfit with her husband, Dan. Fern and Amy discuss the differences between The Levels 1, 2, 3 and the soon to be released level 4. Nicole Carroll says that “Amy’s  superpower is getting things a credited.”  Amy has been fundamental when it comes to The Level 3 being certified. She talks us through how it’s professional credential with less than 1% of Crossfit Credentialed professional having it. She takes a deep dive into why you really do need to know your stuff for this exam and why it demands a lot from you. Also, Amy remind us how much The Level 3 is still in its early days with it came out in 2015. Part of that is it’s always getting refreshed and update, so it reflects the standard of the coaches taking it. Amy’s answers some questions around The Level 4, like it is real and why it’s taking it’s time to be released. The simple answer is like the all things Crossfit wants to do it right and make sure it means something not just in the Crossfit world be everywhere. Check out the extra content about this episode on besthouroftheirday.com Rate/subscribe in Apple Podcasts! Find us on Instagram: @besthouroftheirday + @thejasonackerman Check out our website - besthouroftheirday.com - to learn more about our private coaches development group. 