It's time for a new era of communication in the swine industry one that you can get the latest updates while commuting or driving to Farms here. You will have the brightest minds of the global swine industry in your pocket. So if you get dietary energy, right you can keep your costs as low as possible. But if you get your energy wrong, you can affect performance in a negative way or you can affect net income in a negative way. Wait swine it podcast is only possible with the support of forward-looking and Innovative sponsors. Like the lawn Coast previs sent a new purrs suspected visit previs sent prrs dot U, s-- to learn more Newt request experts serving producers and delivering breakthrough Solutions Genesis. The first Power in genetics Xin Pro essential trace minerals, exceptional performance every Pig a simple yet powerful. Full Pig health and production management tool gestahl always one step ahead in swine feeding. Welcome to find a podcast. My name is Marcel gonsalves your host for today's episode this episode. Sponsor. Highlight is about Genesis Genesis is the largest independent producer of High Health registered purebred swine in the globe having over 80 percent of all registered purebred breeding. Back in Canada. The Genesis genetic program uses genomic selection strategies focused on productivity faster growth efficiency high yield and meet quality to know more go to Genesis.com GE n esus.com. Hello everyone today. We have dr. John patients from Iowa State University and topic is One of the most important decisions in swine production and that is dietary energy level. How are you today? Dr. Patients? I'm fine, Marcy Omen and look forward to chatting with you today. Yes, really appreciate your time. I know that you're very busy man out there and to get things rolling John if you could just tell us a little bit about yourself. I know I have Everyone knows you but it's always good to get a very, you know, historical perspective of your career and and we go from there. Okay, very good. Well briefly. I was born and raised on a mixed Farm in Southern Ontario and Canada and back in those days Farms were very very mixed. And so we had dairy cattle and chickens and bakes and crops and so on but gradually over time we got rid of the chickens. We got rid of the dairy cows and every time we got rid of something we added more Pig. So ultimately it became specialized specialty Farm like a lot of Iowa Farms pigs and crops. I got my bachelor's and master's degrees the University of Guelph. I went to work an extension for three years in Canada. And then I worked in the feed industry for four years and then I went back and did my PhD at Cornell so I've been out for about seven and a half years. So I'm one of those people People Marcio that beliefs that you don't have to do your bachelor's Master's PhD all at once you can do one or two of those degrees and go back and do a PhD later on if you really want to and I can tell you I was scared spitless when I first went into class because I'd been away for so long and most of the students were going straight through but it all worked out and I brought with me a lot of Industry experience. So I got a lot of a lot more out of my PhD and I might have otherwise I moved to Saskatoon 1987 join purse wine Center, and I was there for 21 years and for those not familiar purse wine Center was a an applied research and Technology transfer organization focused on the pig industry largely in western Canada, but really on a global basis and then after 21 years of Bruce Wayne Center, I moved down to here to Ames and I've been on faculty at Iowa State University for 11 years now. Wow time flies. It sure does Marcy. Oh, very nice appreciate that. And so to get into our topic. So good portion of our audience are not trying to tradition is Joan. Can you explain why dietary energy is such an important decision. Yeah. Well, it is really important Marcio and and it's important for a number of reasons first off dietary energy is Is really the most expensive component of the Daya. So if you get dietary energy, right you can keep your costs as low as possible. But if you get your energy wrong, you can affect performance in a negative way or you can affect net income in a negative way. So just as an example to give a perspective on that when we're formulating diets, it's really hard to say. Well, you know, if a diet is $200 a ton. This is how much of that cost was energy. But if you formulate a diet a fully balanced diet, but you just put the energy spec into the computer and ignore amino acids and vitamins and minerals and everything else. So just meeting that energy spec and then you come back after that and then you add in the amino acids and vitamins and minerals and everything else. Just meeting the energy spec represents about 85% scent of the total final cost of that diet now just to be clear that doesn't mean that energy represents 85% of the cost of the diet because when you meet the energy requirement you're bringing in some protein and amino acids, of course, right but it just shows that setting that energy level can have a big impact on the cost of that diet. So economics is is very very big part of it. The second is that energy affects performance. So much too much energy and your carcasses are not good quality and not enough energy and your pigs don't grow very well. And and so it can affect energy level in the diet will affect rate of gain. It'll affect feed efficiency. It will return excuse me. It will rep effect return over feed cost return over feed cost per Pig place. It can affect carcass you milk production in the south. So it affects so many aspects of production. So we got to make sure we get that right and so fundamentally Marcio if if somebody is complaining about poor performance in their Barn there can be many causes of that but one of the first things that we would look at would be the energy level of the diet, very nice. Yes such important decision there and so we can step back a little bit doc. Dr. Patients and would you walk us through a brief history of the understanding of dietary energy in swine production over the last several decades? Yeah. Yeah. That's it was an interesting. That's an interesting question Marcio and and and I tried to put it in chronological order, but the first step is really to measure energy. How do we measure energy and we do that in an German called a calorimeter and for people not familiar with that. What it is is it's an instrument in the laboratory that you take a small sample of feed or an ingredient and you put it inside the instrument which is heavily sealed and then you put oxygen into the instrument with the feed sample and you ignite it and it burns that literally explodes and it burns all that sample. And so that tells you how much Energy is present. So what we're really saying is that when we measure energy and feed its measured in the same way as we would measure the amount of heat that's generated by a bonfire or in a furnace. It's the same way of measuring energy. And that's one of the joys of studying energy. It's a universal language, but that was that was the first step we obviously before we could I'd do anything else with energy we had to have a good understanding of how to measure it and we had to be able to measure it precisely and the joy of measuring energy in a calorimeter is we can be very very precise the variation in that measurement is well in our lab will do a repeat if we're out by more than one and a half percent when we do duplicates, so it's a very Very precise measurement which is really important to us. So so that's step number one and then step number two was to determine what we measure how much energy is in that sample of corn or soybean meal or in a complete diet, but how much of that can be utilized by the pig because it's not all digested. And so now we have to do digestibility studies and we measure how much energy the piggies. It's we measure how much energy the pig looses in the feces and by difference then we say that's the energy that's digestible to the pig and therefore at least potentially available to be used by the pig for productive purposes. So that's what we call then digestible energy. Well then Along Came metabolizable energy where we in in addition to sampling the feces. We also sampled. All the urine to see how much energy is lost in the urine and that gives us then metabolizable energy. So that was a very important step in terms of how much energy in the diet can be utilized by the pig and I'm I'm going to come back to that a little bit in a few minutes, but the next real step chronologically was to determine how much energy the pig requires so we started out with how much energy is in the feed then how much of that energy Use available to the pig is digestible and metabolizable. And now we're at the third step of how much energy does this pig require and if we look at it Marcio and break it down to simplify the question. We know that energy is used for maintenance sort of to keep the pigs motor running. So that's the heart the lungs the kidneys the intestinal tract and so on then there's the energy that's required. Wired for lean gain plus the energy that's required to lay down fat in the carcass. So if we add those three together, then that's the amount of energy that's required by the pig to grow now a couple of things that I find kind of interesting about this maintenance energy. If we measure how much energy that of the energy that the pig consumes how much actually goes to to run the motor to keep Pig alive on a day-to-day basis and it's about 25 to 30 percent which is a fair chunk of energy that that big consumes when I ask students before they had a chance to study this I say what what percentage of energy do you think is required for maintenance and typically the gases will be you know, 10% or 15% The other thing that's kind of interesting is if we look at the amount of Lysine I'm that the pig consumes and What proportion of the lysine that the pig consumes that used for maintenance? It's also about 25 to 30 percent. So interesting coincidence and the other number that I find interesting is I had a student measure this a number of years ago that if a pig is sick and we're stimulating that immune system now in this case, this was a very Severe stimulation of the immune system, but it increased maintenance energy requirement by between 25 and 27 percent. So the cost of disease is very expensive in maintenance terms combined with the fact that many diseases not all but many diseases suppress feed intake. So you have a situation where the pig is. Needing more energy to maintain itself, but it's eating less energy. And therefore it's not surprising then that the pig doesn't grow very well because there's a lot less energy available for protein gain and lipid gain. So that's the the that kind of gives you a bit of an idea the amount of energy the pig consumes per day that's used for lean gain is only about 20 to 25 percent and the rest of it goes to lipid gay. So that's how it kind of breaks down and now we get to a more complicated part of energy we get to almost to today Marcio and that is that the energy that the pig consumes we've got to the point where we know how much is digestible. We know how much of that digestible and metabolizable energy the Pig needs, but now of the Either it's absorbed. What proportion is actually available for these other purposes and this is where it gets much more complicated and this is why we move from metabolizable energy to net energy because some components of the diet are expensive to use and some are not very expensive to you. So for example starch corn has a lot of starch in it and starches use quite efficiently by the pick the cost the metabolic cost the amount of energy It's needed to convert starch into a form that can be used as a source of energy in the body. The that cost is very low so starch has a very efficient source of energy, but if we're talking about protein or Fiber, there's a high energetic cost to convert that to a usable form in the body. We call this heat increment and fiber and protein are not Used very efficiently. So now we have an understanding that even when we measure digestible energy or metabolizable energy. We're missing this final step and that is the heat increment and that's why we move to the net Energy System and we'll come back to talk about that a little bit later, but maybe right now all we can say is that when we want to set this Optimum Of energy in the diet of the pig if we're setting up a new barn or as a consultant. We're reviewing a feeding program. There's many factors that influence the level of energy we want to put in this diet. There's the genetic the pigs genetic capacity for growth. Obviously, there's the innate capacity for feed intake and as we know some genetics have bigger appetites than others and so with the pig has a Smaller appetite we have to make a more concentrated feed higher in energy. So the pig can meet its energy requirement by eating less feed. But if the pig has a big appetite and we don't have to feed such a high energy diet. There's the health of the animal like I already related to that and the effect that can have on health. There's the environment in which the pig lives. So for example, if it's hot Over raising pigs down there and Tampa Florida Marcio. We've got highly you know concentrated feed because that pig is not going to eat a lot of feed down there when it's nice and warm for you but really hot for the Peg and that gets down to economics where we set that then the final thing is is really comes down to economics and it's the target growth for that barn and if we're short on space we're going to Feed a higher energy diet if we can afford to you know always depends on on the cost of doing this but if we're short on space we're going to want to feed a higher energy diet to help those pigs grow fast. So we sell the largest possible carcass when those pigs have to go to market when we have to empty that barn but if we're log on space and we can take you a week or 10 days or even longer to get those pigs to market then we can afford to feed a lower energy. Diet, which is typically going to be a lot cheaper because growth rate isn't so important is not so valuable anymore and we can feed the pig a lower energy diet and maximize net income that way. So as you can see there's there's a lot of factors go into setting that energy level. Yes. That's amazing. Thanks for our for going through that Joe as we sit here today John what time? Are we at the end of the tunnel or is there more things to learn about energy? Yeah, I I think the the the tunnel as you I like that analogy to Marshall and yeah, I think there's still a fair bit of tunnel in front of us because there's there's there's a number of things we still have to to learn and one of them. I think many many nutritionists have switched over to the net Energy System and so a higher proportion of the pigs in the u.s. Now, we're fed diets based on the net Energy System as compared to the metabolizable energy or the modified a me system that was used previously, but they're still still some nutritionists who were reluctant to switch to me2 any excuse me, and that's partly because of the lack of confidence in the net energy value that that they feel they have for the ingredients. They're using and of course, as you know, Marcio was a nutritionist if you don't have confidence in your nutrients backs, then it's really really hard to formulate a diet and have confidence in the results because fundamentally is nutritionist our overall goal. Is to feed a diet to achieve a predictable or expected outcome and if we don't have good net energy values or people feel we don't have good net energy values then they're going to be reluctant to make that move because they're not confident. They'll get that predictable performance. So I think we're we need to have more more research done to develop those net energy values. It's much more complicated to develop net energy. Values than a me or modified enemy or de we can do it through a system called indirect calorimetry and that's a system, you know in the US were actually quite behind the Europeans and the end the Chinese for example in our access to our indirect calorimeters, and dr. Stein University of Illinois is just firing. His units the best of my knowledge those will be the only units in the United States being used for swine. And you know Marcio in the in South America. Does anybody use indirect calorimetry? Are you aware? I'm not aware, but I don't know for sure. Yeah, I haven't heard of any and I haven't seen any thing come out that would suggest they are but but anyhow indirect calorimetry allows you to measure quite precisely the net. Energy content of ingredients and and so we will be getting more data in the future out of dr. Stein's lab, but you can also do growth titrations and indeed many people developed their Emmy values and their modified Emmy values by doing what we would call a titration where you would set a standard diet and you would add your test ingredients. in increments to two or three levels at what you believed was the correct energy value and then you would feed the pig for a period of four weeks or five weeks long enough to get good performance data, but not too long because that pig changes carcass composition and that's going to mess up the measurement and if if the feed efficiency stays constant across those three or four levels of ingredients, And then you know that your energy value is correct, right and if the feed conversion changes as you increase this ingredient, then you know your feed efficiency your your excuse me, your energy value is incorrect. And so I know there are people who are doing that kind of work to develop energy values to confirm energy values and I believe that's that's going to come along. But you know when you really get down to it Marcio we can if we have a good any value we can estimate any fairly well and so we can limit the amount of work that needs to be done use doing titrations or indirect calorimetry to come up with these values. We can we can estimate it reasonably well, so so there's those three ways that we can Come up with better than energy values that energy has the advantage has two advantages. Theoretically. The one advantage is very modest in my opinion at least and that is get a more predictable performance outcome with net energy than with even modified Emmy, but that Advantage is relatively small, you know, a few percentage points the real advantage of net energy. Is assigning better economic value to ingredients. That's where the significant dollars come in because we tend to overvalue high protein high fiber ingredients when we use Emmy or modified Emmy, and we tend to underestimate the value of ingredients that are high in starch and especially those that are high in fat. So that's the advantage of the net Energy System. That's why companies and nutritionists have switched over to any in order to improve the economy. But if I may looking at that tunnel and light way down at the end, I really do believe that we will need to develop models to help us understand how the pig uses energy and get the most predictable outcomes because When you think what I referred to before that the amount of energy available to the peg depends whether it's coming from fiber or from protein from starch or fat that's very complex and you can't really expect a system like even any to be completely accurate and the ultimate solution down. The road will be models and there's a few of those around the globe not a lot, but that Will be the ultimate I really believe that as we move more and more into what they call Precision agriculture that's good. In order for us to keep up on the energy side of things. That's where we will be headed. And that's a that's a very complex subject and would take much more time than we have today. But, you know case the long and before he passed away had started a very good model. Milan how energy is utilized by the P depending on where that energy came from. So so that's what I see going down the tunnel Marcio and but ultimately it's always defining. What is the optimum energy level give them the economics of the situation, you know, feed costs versus market price. Very nice. Is there someone working on that model now or it's kind of stopped John? Yeah, well, it took a big hit with cases with our loss of case and but there are people yes that are working on it, but it's in the privates. I'm not aware of anybody on the public side working on that. Okay, but on the private side, there are people working on that. Yes. Okay, as we move along Zhang Hao Kan swine nutrition is figure out the optimal energy to be fat. Add in swine diets. Yes. Well, there's two ways Marcio one is what I'll call the empirical method where you do a titration of energy levels just like we do titration of amino acids and titration of minerals and so on and so we would feed different energy levels to the pigs and we would develop then a response curve. We're not going to do breakpoint analysis because there is no breakpoint in energy. Spots, it's not like there is a requirement for energy like there is for lysine or calcium or something like that. It's a response surface we call it and so it's a curve and so as you feed a higher level of energy the pig will grow more efficiently and depending on your starting point May grow faster, but may not and I'll come back to that in just a minute. So you would feed different levels of energy. Energy, and you would develop this response but always remembering and this is the weakness of the empirical approach that that response surface is only going to be good for those conditions write that kind of temperature environment that genetics that health status. And so realistically if you're a company with many many Barns and are spread out geographically and therefore different whether you're going to To do develop these curves summer and winter and under different conditions of Health to get a good understanding of what that response is. Because if we think for a minute as we increase the energy level of the diet from let's say a low energy to a high energy as we increase energy that pig is already eating as much as it can of this low energy diet. So as we increase energy the pig consumes more energy per day and grows faster and grows more efficiently as energy continues to rise. We might get to the point where the pig now is consuming as much energy as it requires to maximize its growth rate. And when that happens then further increases in energy won't increase growth rate, but will increase feed efficiency. Now in my experience in commercial conditions, I'd say probably 80 80 plus percent of the time increasing energy will increase average daily gain, but it's not a hundred like, you know, if you have a healthy Barn the pigs are not The temperatures not too hot and those pigs have a good appetite. They can eat as much energy as they require per day to maximize their growth rate and increasing energy, then isn't going to make them grow any faster, but it will make him grow more efficiently, but there's not a lot of you know Barnes like that necessarily we tend to be more in that range on this curve. I just described where energy is limiting the pigs growth rate. So increasing energy will increase growth rate. So that's the empirical Cool approach and it's pretty straightforward can be easily done. But the the other approach is using a mock-up of what we call a growth model. So this is different than the energy model that I just talked about. This is a model that you plug in the genetics the you know, the feed intake and so on there's one in the NRC which actually is not a bad model. We've used it and it was Ruiz. It reasonably predicted the performance of the pigs. And you use this model and the nice thing about a model is you can apply it under different circumstances, right? If the model can adjust for feed intake then you can adjust for health situations. If you can if you know the protein deposition in your pigs, then you can plug that into the model and so on so you can you can estimate how the pigs would respond to energy and then you put an economic component into the model. You too, so that you're really you're not really optimizing energy or optimizing economics that that's really what it comes down to. So, those are the two ways Marcio to define the optimum energy level and by far the most common method used in the u.s. Is the empirical method, but there's more and more modeling going on and I think we're going to see more growth models in the future. Very nice. No, that's great. And and maybe I Like to share with the audience as well John that model that K-State worked on the on top of a meta-analysis. If you call them one from about three or four years ago on Journal of animal science, and and that was an interesting one because was a meta-analysis on 41 studies. And and then when we validated that in Canada was very very close as well from a performance standpoint. So so that was an interesting one as Well, you bet. Yep, and as more and more of that comes out Marcio, then I think people will become more comfortable with models. Right seeing is believing and when the model works then people will have more confidence and they are so powerful because they can be used under different conditions right? Very nice. You know, I've seen some situations John where the energy was increased but Amino It was not right. So if you can explain to us why so important to adjust amino acid levels when changing the energy level of the diet, right that good question and that's a big Hoops. If we don't adjust the amino acid levels and so fundamentally when we're setting up our formulation program. Ideally, what we would do is we would set the energy level and that's that's an input into the model into the formulation program. And then we don't Define lysine as a percentage of the diet. We Define it as a ratio to energy. What is the lysine to energy ratio and that so when we do that when we change energy, we automatically change lysine. And then we have our Ideal Protein ratio. So finding threonine tryptophan valine and so on are defined not as percentage of the diet, but as a ratio to lysine, so when we change energy that changes lysine and when we change lysine that changes the other amino acids, and so that that's really the right way to do it and that is because if when we change energy as I described before if we increase the The energy level of the diet that may drive better growth in the pigs faster growth and we need lysine to drive that growth or if it means the pigs are eating less feed because they're already Optima optimized in terms of energy intake. Well, we need to maintain that lysine level so that we don't go deficient in lysine. So that's why it's very very important to adjust our lysine. To our energy level very nice. Um, what are the biggest problems when managing energy sources into the diet. Good good question. I think the big one and it became much bigger in 2007 2008 is the variability of ingredients that we're dealing with now corn is, you know, one of the ideal ingredients that we use in the pig industry. A worldwide and it doesn't very very much the energy value of corn, you know within experiments that we do even when we've gone out and looked for differing qualities of corn. We've seen only a three or four percent maximally 5% range in energy, you know, when we had that very very dry year 2011. I think it was maybe 12 Saw some just terrible corn small kernels and you look at it. You think? Oh my God, this stuff is horrible. But when we actually did energy values on that corn there were only about a little over 3% lower if it came off the most drought-stricken land just over 3% less than the corn that was grown under good cropping conditions. And and when we've gone into years where Very very wet and we've had a lot of broken kernels and so on that actually was a bigger issue and there we saw differences of about 5% but corn doesn't very nearly as much as by-product ingredients that we might be using like ddgs which can vary and energy tremendously depending on how much energy excuse me. How much fat is present week mids are reasonably consistent, but they also If we were feeding wheat or barley the variation is double or triple that of corn and so corn is really considered to be one of the more uniform ingredients and we get worse from there Bakery by-product is another product that typically can vary quite a bit because it varies so much on what goes into it. So variability is one of the big ones cost, you know, when We set up our formulations and we're selecting ingredients and we get comfortable using those ingredients. We're getting predictable performance and then the cost structure changes. Then we're forced to make changes to those diets. And that's that changing cost that that causes us grief. And so for example, we might be feeding 20-25 even 30% ddgs and then the price of ddgs goes up and it no longer prices into the I had and we have to take it out and make all the adjustments and and so that makes life of a nutritionist much much more difficult. And then one other thing that we're just learning about now Marcio that's going to become more important in the future with the whole antibiotic thing using less antibiotics in the feed is we now know that different ingredients that we put into the diet affects the of the pig it can affect the structure of the gut it can affect the susceptibility of the pig to certain kinds of diseases like Kobe Bassel osis and Swine dysentery and other diseases. So in the future, we don't have quite enough information to be very specific yet, but we're getting to that point and we can make some recommendations that we but we can certainly understand now that Ingredients to go into the diet of the pig not that might be there to supply energy. But it may also be affecting got health and this is particularly important in the weanling pigs, but can even be important in the growth finished pig as well. Very interesting. Yeah as I think about that tunnel we were talking about before I guess that's that's going to be a big one as well how the whole microbiome interacts with all that so Very nice anything else Joan before we moved to the three questions. We ask every guest. No, I know. No, I think we've I think we've covered the subject pretty well with hopefully without getting into the weeds too much for your audience Marcy. Oh no, this is great. The truth is precision swine production is not the future. It is the present every pig is the intelligent Pig Health platform. It is a simple yet powerful Pig health and Action management tool request a free 20 minute demonstration at www.careerfh.com. Co swine it it is time to our fail. So the three questions Joan that we ask every guest every episode. The first one is what is your favorite swine related book Thank You Mauricio and I have two books. Actually I'd like to to include in my list one is Well known and that's the NRC 2012. I think the people that were on that committee did a very very good job. Obviously some chapters are better than others. But overall it's a very good reference book and the other is a not a very well-known book at all, but it's maybe the best book I ever read and it's very very old but that the science hasn't changed a lot and it's called comparative nutrition of foul and Swine. It was written by Ed Moran who was at the University of Guelph. You wrote that book but he just retired from Auburn University. But it compares the whole digestive system of the bird and the Peg and I just found it fascinating to understand the pig better by comparing two to the bird. It's just a fascinating book very interesting. I never heard of all that one. It's not well known. Unfortunately, very good. Well, I guess that's one of the goals of the this question too is so we all can Can keep keep learning with the the vast literature there. The the next one Joan is what's your favorite book in general outside of pig production? Yes. Well and this one this was pretty easy for me. I read this when I was quite young. In fact, I was still a teenager when I read this book, but it had a profound effect on me. It's called no man alone and it was written by a famous neurologist. His name was Wilder Penfield. And he built the first Neurological Institute in Canada. It's hard to believe here. We are in 2019 that within my lifetime in my early life time. There were no specialty. There was no specialty called neurology. I mean, that's amazing. But anyhow, he built this Neurological Institute in Canada. He became world famous. He built a Neurological Institute in the middle of the depression. So he raised millions of dollars. When most people didn't have any money and he was also a great researcher. He actually developed surgery that helped patients with epilepsy to control that epilepsy better than had ever been done previously. But when you read the book, he takes no credit for himself. Well, he gives credits to his colleagues and the book taught me at a very young age that your own personal success whatever it might be is not nearly as important as the success of the people around you. Of the people around you or successful, then you're going to be successful. And and that was the lesson from this book and very very successful man, but also very humble man. Well, they interesting and that's a good link there. Don't for the last question, which is in your opinion what separates successful swine professionals from those that are not well, I got five points Marciano go through them very quickly. The first is a commitment to lifelong learning. I'm 67. I'll be pretty close to sixty eight years of age and I hope I'm still learning in our world is changing so quickly we have to constantly be learning new things. I think successful professionals combined humility and self-confidence humble people tend to do more listening than King and when you're listening rather than speaking you tend to learn more but having that self-confidence to be sure of yourself is really important in our world, which is moving so very very quickly. I think the third point is people who work with their clients rather than for their clients. So in other words, it's a partnership. So your clients success is your success and your success is your clients success. I think that builds a strong long-term bond between people and their customers at the end of the day. I think the successful professionals always keep an eye on money on net income and cost of production a very successful entrepreneur that I knew many years ago told me that money like water never flows uphill. So when you're looking to improve profitability look for ways to make that money like water flow downhill in other words. It's got to be Logical it's got to be practical. And then finally, I think successful professionals have a great balance between their personal life and their professional life and my career spans 45 years. And when I look back on my memories, I've had some wonderful memories Marcio, but my best memories are coaching my daughter and two sons and baseball and hockey. Those are my best memories. So very nice. That's that's profound don't appreciate all those insights there from a technical standpoint and also from personal development standpoint. So I love that appreciate it John was that actually I think was the longest interview I've done that. So I liked it so much I get long-winded sometime. I apologize. No, no. No, this is this is great A lot of wisdom there and And yeah, appreciate so much your time. Again, Joe and I will see you soon. Well, thank you Marcio for having me. I really have enjoyed it. Hey guys, and girls, thank you so much for being part of our community as well as thanks for all the great gas that we have had. I hope you enjoyed this podcast as much as I do to be part of our email list and get some exclusive materials go to our website www.sceeto.com. That's wine. I t.com And subscribe to our e-mail list. Also, we love feedback. So if you use the Apple podcasts app, please leave us a review. It is much appreciated. We'll talk soon.
Today’s episode will cover “One of the most important decisions in swine production: dietary energy level”. “If you get dietary energy right you can keep your costs as low as possible… but if you get your energy wrong, you can affect performance and net income in a negative way.” – Dr. John Patience. Our guest is Dr. John Patience, another bright mind of the Global Swine Industry. Dr. Patience is a global leader in swine nutrition research and internationally recognized speaker, received the College of Agriculture and Life Sciences Outstanding Achievement in Research Award. Received his bachelor's degree in 1974 and his master's degree in 1976 from the University of Guelph, Ontario. He received his Doctor of Philosophy from Cornell University in 1985. What you will learn:   Why dietary energy is such an important decision;  Understanding dietary energy in swine production;  What is next for dietary energy;  How can nutritionists figure out the optimum energy in swine diets;   The importance of adjusting amino acids levels when changing energy level;   The biggest problems when managing energy sources;   What separates successful swine professionals from those that are not. John’s favorite swine-related book: NRC (2012) and Comparative Nutrition of Fowl and Swine (Edwin Moran) John’s favorite book unrelated to swine: No Man Alone (Wilder Penfield) Edited by Lauro Faccin 