Welcome back or welcome to the humans of triathlon or hot podcast where we bring you the ordinary but extraordinary world of triathlon one human one story at a time with the aim to inspire and to celebrate this life-changing Sport and it's humans to real authentic raw and enjoyable conversations with humans of triathlon from around the globe and from all walks of life.Hello humans of triathlon. This is swapna Chauhan here speaking from Melbourne, Australia joined by my to co-host Sheila 211 from Grimsby Ontario, Canada and Carlos AKA Charles from London UK. And before we get into this week's conversation with our guest. We have some news. Yes what we have got our first ever podcast sponsor. Yay. That's right. Pretty exciting. We've been doing this show for 10 11 months now, and I don't think we've hadLike giving a single ad of any kind so far because that's just not what the show is about for us and it still isn't but our friend Triathlon Tavern has just come out with this amazing Triathlon training series, which we wanted to support and get the word out about so they've come on board as sponsors. So the series is basically an online series of videos and audio files from some of our favorite pro triathletes. There's Lucy Charles two times Kona runner up and swim course record holder along. They're husbandry sparkly for the how to swim videos. There's also Cameron work the Kona bike course record holder for How to cycle videos and if you wasn't enough, there's Sarah and Ben true on how to run and guess what drum roll through. We have a meeting that car for a team O'Donnell and their strength coach are in Carson on Triathlon strength training. So guys, this is the best of the best of the best talking about what they know and do best. Yeah and always has been Condensed into these nice short little videos covering specific areas and topics and I think whether you're a beginner or whether you've been doing this sport for a while, I think there's a little something for everyone in there. So for more information you ought to get the courses you can visit humans of triathlon.com forward slash Pro try so PR OT RI and if you use the code humans of triathlon, you can get 20% of honestly. I believe the prices that the courses are a time. It's it's a complete steel to you know, just be able to get an insight into the way these Pros think about this port and the way they do things so and yeah, we previously we've had quite a few people asked about how they can support the show and support humans of triathlon. Well, this would definitely be one way to do. So, so make sure to check out humans of triathlon.com / grow try and coupon code humans a triathlon for 20% of all right. Now, let's get into this week's episode. It's gonna be a good one. So there is no secret to being successful is taking one small step being consistent in your routine managing the doubtful voice that says you can't and training your body and brain to know you can easier said than done. Right? So now imagine you've grown up an athlete a multi-disciplined martial artist and a competitive rower active strong independent control over mind and body. Okay. So now Imagine going out on a bike ride as many of us do almost daily. And in one brief moment your life is forever changed Independence lost ability to function normally limited to only a few hours per day our guest today suffered a traumatic brain injury in a bike collision with another Rider. We will hear from him on how his Rehabilitation and Triathlon are linked how consistency and persistence can bring about success sometimes in different ways than we originally planned. Welcome to Canada's Rob sainsbury. Hey guys. Thank you so much work. Wow, that's good an intro. Thank you. So kindly welcome. I didn't even know that you didn't martial arts and stuff earlier, like looks like he'll I did some digging I did I'd be I'd be curious where you look because that's kind of how I actually looked at and I just looked up you on Google and limited or Limitless training came up and your bio is on there and Talked about your background in martial arts and Rowing and that's funny funnily enough that so I'm just coaching two classes a week and it's sort of like my first foray back into stuff that I used to do pre-crash. So it's kind of been an interesting return to return to form because all through University and after I was always involved in some way so it's been a really good step. So yeah, we usually like to start off by tattoo with our guests taking us back to the childhood, you know, just talking about the background the original story. So yeah talk to us about what yours was like, let's see so born in Vancouver fairly normal. I moved over to Vancouver on when I was about nine or ten. We moved to a farm. So I was sort of out in the sticks. I was just an outdoorsy kid really nerdy. I was into biology and I didn't really have a chance to do Sports so much just being so far out of town. Sort of being isolated. I didn't start until like I was doing martial arts all along. I was into karate and Taekwondo as a child, but when I got to late high school that was where I started doing rowing and that was sort of my sport for the next decade. I would guess and then kickboxing and boxing was always there on the side as sort of a not a distraction. It was more of a touchstone. It was like I think in the same way that for Triathlon for a lot of people where it's what you come to to for something that makes sense martial arts. Was that for me for a very very long time. So you're sure the rowing explains your huge shoulders then we you have big shoulders. I it's strange. I have a quite a few conversations people about my physique and the reality is is I'm much much bigger now than I ever was when I was rowing. I was rowing as a lightweight which is a weight cap of 72 kilos and I was probably floating around a hundred and fifty pounds even down to 145 pounds for most of that competition time. So I'm I'm a hundred hundred and eighty nine centimeters six foot two little bit put a little bit more. So I'm a big dude. Yeah, and it was it was not a healthy weight for me. So like I have a big frame but the muscle that I've added has all been through swimming and Triathlon training. Hmm. I was going to say those are our swimmer shoulders and I was wondering how you got those. I mean the rowing makes sense. You got the base there. But yeah, you're you're your shoulders really do look swimming folder. It's well, what I think is really unique is like one of the main things with me and Triathlon is that like I came to it with no background whatsoever. And like I've I legitimately taught myself to swim from a DVD before I did my first triathlon so I it's all been in the last probably three years that I've really built that physiology and that physique and prior to that like rowing gives you a good cardio based and like strong legs and stuff. So when I first got into Triathlon it was like, oh well Good at the bike and I'm not a very good runner and I'm not a very good swimmer and over the course of the last few years. It's been developing into a totally new physique and just learning to take advantage of physical attributes that I always had but never developed. Yes. So how do you get introduced to Triathlon and psyche so cycling I basically for me cycling was always just something that was on the side. It was a commuting thing. I wrote on the most junkie bikes you could ever imagine I would pull things out of a dumpster and put back together and use him to get to school and back. I think I bought my first quote unquote nice bike in 2012. It was a Kona major Jake one of the original mustard yellow ones and I use that as a commuter but it really just kind of boiled down to I was on vacation trying to just like keep myself entertained and I looked online. I was in staying at Kailua Kona and team mango races hosts a bunch of little local events and one of them was there. It was like the New Year's Sprint or something. So it was an 800 meter swim 20 kilometer bike and a 10 kilometer run and I had about a week of lead-up time as like, yeah. Okay. Let's see how this goes. And what's the worst that could happen? So I went and I picked myself up a nicer bike and taught myself how to swim and had at it and I was sort of how ya in a week. I know I was and it's hilarious because I was actually there with my with my family and it was supposed to be like, you know, we're spending a vacation to a family like just right guys. I got to go sit for an hour and the pool and just try and go back and forth as many times as I can because I legitimately had no idea how to do an Open Water Swim when I got into that. I was just doing it and see how it goes. But you were able to swim like somewhat like, you know, what like like a recreational kind of freestyle or I was definitely wasn't wasn't going to drown or anything. It was like, I've always been comfortable in the water, but it was the transition. You're from being comfortable in the water to be incompetent in the water. Like I grew up snorkeling and I was like I did some body surfing and all that kind of stuff. So I was never really worried about being in the water. I didn't have a lot of the tips that some people get about, you know being in deep water that but as far as like swimming, well that was just totally foreign to me. So so how did that first triathlon go with one week of preparation. Honestly, I think it was It was awful and all the ways that make me think it was one of the most memorable wonderful experiences. I could have done like it was it was about having the rubber hit the road and not having anywhere to hide like the thing about coming from that rowing background. It's like yeah, I was generally fit. Yeah. I was pretty competent in being physical but at the same time it's like, you know, if you don't have the technique if you don't have the experience, if you don't have the Precision, you know, like tripping and falling and transition when you're trying to run and bike shoes or like getting Tangled Up in your shirt as you're trying to like just getting dressed to go out under the next leg or like I did my that run in a pair of Merrill Trail gloves, which I thought were the most wonderful shoes in the world until I tried to run longer than 4 kilometers in them and just the amount I could I don't think I could really walk for a couple days afterwards. But no, I think that was the The Amazing part is just like coming up against the task force like yeah, I finished it but there's so much to learn here. There's so much that I can grow into doing this because it's so foreign and so many ways and I just I love that. I thought that was great. That's awesome. So little recovery on the beach, I would imagine afterwards. Well, that was great is that I think two days later they did a time trial for their cycling or it's just like just straight up down the down the Kailua Highway and yeah, just like trying to fit my feet back into my bike shoes to go and do that and not a lot of rest but enough to make Want to get out there as quickly as I can do more. Yeah to be young. I just I wish I'm just Reckless. Perfect. So it after after that first triathlon, obviously, you've got a little bit of the bug tell us about how things went after that. Like what were your next step? So the the unfortunate thing and like after that I've been like oh God, when can I do the next one? And I'd had all of these things that I wanted to do, but I was working. So at that time I was working as a professional biologist in a consulting firm out in Alberta and the work cycle through summer there. Very very intense. I think I think in 2014 up till the end of the work season, which is sort of like around when the crash happened. I was away from home. Probably. I don't know five out of every six weeks and up north and doing lots of heavy hiking and things like that. So there really was no time for training and no time for getting it erases. The only events that I actually did I did on the day because that was the only way I knew I was going to be in town so On for me really went into a run into a little box and one on a shelf for a while like the bike that I got stayed disassembled until probably the end of July and then August is when I heard the crash, so it was just it was a complete wipe and then catastrophe. So yeah that mean that's obviously a rough thing to go through talk to us about that. Like what how what is the crash like and What happened? So so there's some fuzzy Parts but for the most part I was just out for a day riding. There's a really nice bike trail between Banff and Canmore Tulane bike path. And it's a 40 K Loop roughly and I was on my way back and you know on a relatively straight section nothing really out of the ordinary and there was a group of people going the other direction last there's four or five of them and then another 3 and the second And that group of three turned broadside into my lane and turn to talk to the person behind them and I had fence on the one side and a wall on the other side. So there was really nowhere to go. So I spiked the brakes. I vaulted the bike and kind of Cannonball through them. I took their handlebars to the back of my head shattered my helmet and yeah and then on top of that like kept on flipping for another 15-20 feet and then hit the ground like I'm not happy. It happened. But like if you send me the link click it like it would look great. But yeah, I the main thing that remember after that it's like trying to look over my bike and not being able to get from one end of the bike to the other with like remembering the fork was okay a remembering if the frame was okay, like everything was just really really like you'd think about it and then it was gone and I ended up calling over some other bikes Billy. Hey, can you check over my bike and they took over my bike and it actually like I dislocated my elbow on the crash to so I'd pop that back. A place and I was like, well, I got off easy. And then I just got on the bike and I rode home and yeah, it was it's a bit of a trip because I think the next day I went into work and was just like, you know this get back to this. Yeah, my body's a little sore, but I'm fine and just looking at the computer screen. I had all these reports to write because of all the work that I've done to the summer and you know looking at my data and getting nothing and looking at the report that I'd started on the Friday before and getting nothing. It's like something's really wrong. But I didn't know what I hadn't gone to the hospital hadn't done anything like that. I just sort of shrugged it off and end up putting myself. I went to my boss was just like I think I need a vacation. I think I'm just burnt out from the summer and said yeah sure no problem take a week or two and that's where things get really fuzzy Because by the time I sort of Really remember stuff clearly. I was living in Victoria with my parents and all of my things had come with me. I didn't have an apartment in Calgary anymore. Like I cleared out completely and I just had no recollection of that. And on top of that I couldn't sleep. I couldn't function like there was a lot of stuff going on that did not make sense. And yeah, it was just a very very shocking wake up. What was the time period between you asking your For that vacation and then being at home with your parents with all your stuff too. So I ended up I was so I was back in September. The crash was in late August. I was back home in September for in a small degree and then like I shift it out completely by the end of the year, but like I couldn't tell you what day I moved all my stuff. I couldn't tell you what day I arrived. Yeah. The information is there I just don't remember it's not your word access it. Yeah it totally and but like I think I like I first went to try and like I went to get help because I couldn't understand what was going on at the end of October. And that was where I got my first doctor to look at me and say well something's wrong and then it just started this long process of getting the right diagnosis and getting the right care. Okay. So the first bus and you went to for help he recognizes that Thing was wrong. Well, the thing that I presented with initially wasn't standard. So because of the nature of the crash because the nature of the injury a lot of people when they have cycling crash that causes a TBI, it's a it's a straight-up impact the front or side of the head because of mine being at the back of the head. A lot of my damage was done at the prefrontal cortex right in the very front of my brain which and also from a rotational moment. So it's called an axonal injury, which means that parts that connect to different areas of the brain are getting jostled and A bird and so what ends up happening is that you function very normally until the connections that are feeding those areas information fatigue because you have fewer those connections and it I'm going to be really reductive about it, but it's essentially the pathways get tired and you end up unable to process any more. So you'll you'll meet someone you'll talk to someone if they always seems okay, and then you'll leave and just be a shell for the next couple days. So it's It's a confusing thing and I think just one thing through the process like have was able to connect with the Victoria brain injury society and basically learning that these kinds of things are incredibly individual and they're always unique to the individual in some way. Some people have vestibular issues. Some people have cognitive issues. Some people have fatigue issue. Some people have all of them and it's just you don't really know what you're getting until you get it having not known that I had this at the initial. Crash when it happened to be with a very severe secondary Cascade because you have your initial and then if you don't have symptoms in that initial phase but you don't do anything to give your brain care. There's a chance that you can continue to have to degeneration over time. So a sort of just hit the end of the hit the end of the Rope a little further down the road as opposed to like if I had a different kind of impact and gotten up and been able unable to balance or if I lost Consciousness for a very long period of time things like that. So there's there's a lot of Gray In that region when it comes to TBI interesting informations. Okay. Sorry, it's just I'm trying to picture the crash in my mind and thinking to myself your helmet was like Smosh. I think I would have forced you honestly just to sit there till we called the ambulance. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, there was a lot of stuff about that. That was not right and actually it's a bit funny because the fellow that so one of the things that I was doing as a hobby and Calgary was an apprentice knife maker and they filled that I was learning how to make knives from was a neurosurgeon or had been a neurosurgeon has been retired and I'd mentioned the crash to him told him on my elbow and all that stuff, but I hadn't mentioned the helmet and he's like, why didn't you mention that I would have had you in for all of this stuff is just you just don't know sometimes you can't choose the right path because you don't know what's in front of you. Wow, it seems like that's such a A major thing in your life. Like you mentioned that he lost your relationship your job. You couldn't function at now. You're at home with your family You've Lost Your Independence, you know tell us about that time. Like how like how were you how were you in terms of your mental state your motivation? How did you how did you make it through that time? So a major part of our very common thing that happens to people when they have severe can Russians are post-concussion syndrome is there is a predisposition to depression and things like that and I felt very deeply into that. And when I first did when I first presented to the doctor for help it was because I was having very very severe depressive episodes and ideation and things like that and just it was a really dangerous time and I really I can't thank my family enough. My parents have been incredible supporting me and I don't That I would be I don't think that I would be here without them for a second. But that said coming from the position. I was in to the lifestyle that I then had to adjust to there's an environmental depression that comes with that to where you're adapting to what you can and cannot do, you know the initial like the initial stuff that I went through was very irrational just sort of unpredictable mood swings and irritability and just a general Oh, uh, no, I don't know how to explain it other than saying it was a profound lack of Wellness, but after that it's like okay. I'm here and I went through the treatments for that but it's like I'm now here and I don't know how to cope with this place and this life and that was where I think Triathlon really came in for me because that was a small bit of Freedom that I could still keep for myself. I was you know, I didn't have to anybody for permission or help to go to the gym as long as I was doing it at within my means, you know, I'd get myself there and I'd work until I couldn't work anymore and then I come home and then manage my fatigue until that was over and then try again and try again and try again and that was sort of the the slow build that I was clinging to as progress through that time because you know, if you're not looking at progress in any other realm it's like what am I actually making a efforts in that are causing change for me and like the biggest changes that I was seeing were in the gym and were when I was out trying to do these things like I remember the first time I tried to ride in a Peloton and like I talked about just vestibular issues that are not being a thing for me but sensory issues were huge were like having to react to movement having lots of sounds around me that kind of thing being in the middle of a group of people biking the first time. I was in a Peloton. I think I lasted maybe 30 seconds before I like Dough to the left side and hung back and then just time traveler from there. Like there was just no way I could do it and then because like I didn't have a choice it was this is what I need to be able to do forcing myself up onto the back of those pack and then up into the pack and just trying to work calmly at that limit that I'd had and yeah, I think that's why I say that the recovery and try out that have been really linked because the training was the Avenue that I was able to see my recovery. At hand I go out and I do something more competently more cape and a more comfortable way than I could have done a week ago a month ago a year ago like the if I were to look at myself in terms of career, I mean I still haven't been able to go back to being a biologist. I still love being outdoors and I still you know nerd out really hard whenever I see a cool bug or a new plant that I haven't seen that's just who I am, but, you know, I'm not writing reports. I'm not you know taking on jobs, but at the same time, you know. The things that I can do now sitting in a sitting in a restaurant with people talking all around me or being in a group ride or being in a group run having conversations people while I'm doing a task that was something that I could even consider doing in 2015-2016. So I have to be aware and thankful for that progress and know that that's just another step on the way. Yeah. I think that's one of the powerful things about Triathlon and just sport in general, you know, because you can see that progress once you start and once you see that progress and gives you You hope it gives you it just makes files. You have to continue doing it. Nothing motivates like progress. Yeah, are you hoping that you know someday you can go back to being a biologist or do you find that now you're on a new path in regards to the coaching and things like that? Well biology is as much a passion as sports are I would really love to see myself back doing something of that nature. I don't think that like I've talked with my neuropsych a lot about it and just the strains of that job and what that we require and it's like is that so likely to go back to what I was doing? Probably not but I will be able to find a utility for my education and a new Avenue to explore that aspect of what I enjoy doing on top of that, you know being able to continue doing Sport and have that as a side opportunity as well. That's that's a big part of it. So, I think if anything I expect to be More diverse and less Focus because prior to the crash. I was hyper focused on that academic career and you know in a lot of ways it might not have been the most healthy things. So I'm able to enjoy the idea that doing it in a more soft and holistic way might end up being better for me in the long run and something that I can be grateful for. That's that's good. You know, it's good that you're able to take you know, where you were and now where you are and continue to So from that, I think a lot of people a lot of people could learn from you. Maybe they don't want to have to obviously the bike crash that you had to get that lesson but being share what you're sharing, you know, and maybe that hyper-focus that you were maybe not that healthy, but now you're able to do more of the things that eventually will be healthier for you along the future. Hey, I actually joked every now and then just like, you know, I'm not upset about the lessons. I just wish that it came in. Done a different way. Yeah, exactly. We all need to learn those lessons. Just we really don't want to learn them the way that you did. I don't recommend it. So if anybody's out there thinking hey, wait a minute. No, no, no, no find your own path don't do as I do. Let me help you with some technique. Don't worry so much about the crash. Actually you just mention this same technique. I find that amazing what you've done you said, you know you Comfortable in the water, but he went and got a DVD you tie yourself how to swim and now a couple years later you are teaching swim technique to other people. So, how did you go from learning on a DVD to now being able to to show other people how to properly because I saw some of your videos and I'm a swimmer you have a very nice catch I have to sing. Actually, the reason that I am the way that I am right now is I think because of some of the hardships that I had I didn't have like most people when they want to swim they join up with a swim club and they just get into the group and you find your level and you work with those people and maybe you go up and maybe you stay where you are. And that's it's more about the community and unfortunately with my situation and makes Triathlon a really poor choice. There's a really strong budget. Shoe and the cost for me to go and join a club was significantly higher than to get information and to find resources that were on like what I wanted to be learning like my goal because I come from a rolling background. I know quite a bit about endurance training and on top of that I mean rowing kind of is water water propulsion and out in a nutshell. So there was a lot of Concepts that I kind of understood. Good, and then with that I was trying to find and to be fair. I did go and have some conversations with coaches and it was just it wasn't it wasn't possible for me to be out doing that initially. It was the cost and the group aspect just because I couldn't be around that many people and in that public situation for a while, but then eventually it was just I was I was starting to work on things to just we're not going to get worked on if I was in a group setting one of the things that I know from my kickboxing back here. Such background is that you can be in a class forever and not really learn but when someone's like able to take you aside and be like no no this this way this this way and don't do that ever. That's really where someone's going to make those improvements and for me knowing my difficulties knowing my my obstacles. It was a lot easier for me to go and become the coach as opposed to trying to find someone who was willing to take on all of my difficulties and say okay I can find a way for you. So it was it was a mix of things set up with me finding learning for myself was not necessarily the easier path, but the more productive one and like yeah, I was always like I did a biology background or did a biology in my University where it was primarily environmental biology, but also Kinesiology, so I was always fascinated by bones and muscles and how everything worked together. So for me getting into the real nuts and bolts of what drives the person forward when they're swimming Because like I did what everybody does they get into the pool, they thrash down 50 meters and they need to stop and take, you know, five minutes and think about what they've just done catch your breath to get exactly like it's this the stuff tiring to get from that to why is it taking me so much energy to do this? Why is it so difficult? What natural habits do I have as someone who lived his entire life? Not a swimmer. What am I doing? That feels natural that's completely wrong. And how do I break? That and so I think the thing that made me want to coach myself and want to help others in the way that I learned how to do it. It's because I got very good at pinpointing the issues that I was having that we're borrowing me from a shape or a feeling that I wanted to achieve in the water like you very very nice of you to compliment my catch that something that I first saw watching Ryan Cochrane swim alongside Sun Yang and the Olympics I saw these two guys with very similar Pace has totally different styles. But this was something that was totally unified. There's a photo of them coming down the lane mid-stroke and you see this perfect 90 degree angle on both of them and it's like that is the uniting factor in these incredibly fast swimmers, like of all the things you can do. Actually Sheila. Taormina is book swim speed secrets for swimmers Gap. That was one of the best resources that I found where it's just like cutting away all of these other things and saying No, this is what Drives you forward and and for me it was like yeah, I agree. This makes perfect sense. I'm going to work on that. I'm going to focus on that and try and figure out how to make this thing that feels right but isn't And turn it into something that is right and feels right and yeah, it just sort of led me down that path. Have you found any sort of trouble sort of when you do you say when you tell your new students or people you want you want to be like Prospect students. Oh, by the way, you know that I learned to swim with YouTube videos right thing. I find interesting and this is like I'm a nccp coach for rowing and I'm Anna TCP coach for Triathlon and I've been coaching Brazilian jiu-jitsu. Kickboxing boxing. No one owns good technique. No one actually can say I have the certification that says I really know what I'm talking about. There are people that have certifications to the nines that couldn't you do anything. There are people with no certifications that are wizards of technique and if there's somebody out there who thinks well If you weren't able to swim well five years ago. Why would I learn from you? I say no, that's absolutely fair. You can go and find some of those the swimmer when they were then since they were a small child and I completely agree that they will have a wonderful resource for knowledge. But if you are a late entry swimmer, if you are someone who didn't come to this with the background, I think my skill set and how I got to where I am isn't Advantage because I can look at what you're doing or what someone's doing and say, okay. I know why that's that way. And I know how I broke it in me and maybe that will help you. Does it mean better know just different does it mean worse know just different? I think it's some I think it's just there's room for a different approaches. And if the goal is to swim well, why would it be a detriment? And yeah II don't I don't begrudge anyone who thinks you know, why would I learn for someone who started out learning from a DVD? I'd say no, I agree. That's a weird thing, but that's how it And if you like the way that I swim I can show you how I learned. Actually, it was a joke question, but you answered beautifully so I well I think that it's something that's very valid and like I don't for a second pretend that I've got some miracle here at there's so much that I'm working on still in myself. I'm constantly learning constantly refining that's why I'm loving doing all of this video analysis in the videos that I put up on my channel where it's like I'll do something and I'll see something you're like, yeah that that's a part that I really like or that's a Art that I really don't like and I'm growing still and you know that active sort of living process of improvement is is not something I ever want to stop like right now. I'm at a Sprint Pace that I think is pretty quick but I still want to see quicker I my cruising pace is getting pretty competent but is a competent enough. No, I want to see what speed I can really achieve and yeah, like I had an experience to wear one of the coaches. That I met probably it was 2016 where I was really thinking like I need I need help to try and do this. Well, this was right before that was the year that I got. I won the provincials, but basically he had he had a brace of four lanes blocked off had 40 athletes or something. He's very very good coach very exceptional team, but he had slow lane mid lane fast lane Elite Lane and the question that I put to him was like, well, how do you take somebody from this Lane pointed at the Mid lane and then I pointed the elite line to that lane and he's got this look on his face. Like what do you mean and I found that to be really disheartening. I was like well, but no really like there has to be a roadmap there has to be a way because that's what I want to do. And if I'm asking you this question, you don't have that answer. Then this isn't the right place. I just from personal experience. I find sometimes that I don't know if I may know the coach that you're talking about what you don't have to tell me the name. So sometimes I find that code set that coach. I don't know say younger athletes moving upwards. They have a very difficult time taking on adults and and moving them forward. Because they want to put the same box on the adults as they put on the kids and I don't know what you find but I find it's not the same at all very different. Well, and I think that's a product of what it is to teach a child versus what it is to teach an adult. I mean, I remember I think it was the Rick Mercer report where the did a thing on Triathlon Canada. And Simon Whitfield was on and he was asked how do I do X Y and Z getting into it now and it was like don't even bother. And I mean some of the field is the Paragon of the sport. I mean Canadian triathlon bike on and you know, you can't say he's wrong but it's like at the same time. It's like there's always value in the attempt. There's always value in trying to find a way to explain that at a different level and in a different way. Is it something that an elite-level coach wants to do with someone who's maybe not the ideal student? I don't know that's up to them. But yeah, I think that trying to put that like at the youth box where You have these kids where you can bring them in. They have very little else aside from school to occupy their time and it's like I'm going to make you swim, you know, five kilometers a session four days a week and then 3 kilometers session for Recovery. Like they'll just go and do it and they'll learn over the course of that time because they're developing cognitively and physically with it. But for me like my volume for training is exceptionally low, especially for swimming I do so much technical work in sort of a microcosm. I do a lot of band work I do. Out of tethered swimming and you know because it wouldn't have been safe for me with the technique that I had to go out and swim that distance to try and find the right technique. I needed to find the right technique and then stretch out the distance. So how much I'm just going to ask you because swimming us interesting to me, too. So how much do you swim per week? Would you say so your volume is low, but how low is that? So right now? So this is that's more of a statement for the last few. Two years this year. I'm actually focused very in the same way like last year. I was very intensely focused on my running this year. I'm very intuitive very focused on my swimming right now. I'm swimming four days a week five days a week. Yeah five days a week and I'll be covering anywhere from 10 to 15 kilometers. It's just sort of relative and that's now changing again because I'm raising up my distances. I'm prepping for a 10K swim. So I have minimum to swims that are going to be 5K and then there's going to be a couple more on top of that for recovery and interval. So ocean swim Our Lake it'll be an ocean swim. The one that I'm competing in. Yeah, are you comfortable with the whole washing machine of this of the Open Water swims now, I honestly I seek it out. I think that that's a lot of fun. I it's one thing to swim in a pool. But at the same time, you know, keeping your Technique and keeping your focus when you're kind of getting buffeted around. Like I said, I came up doing a lot of body surfing and stuff. Like I spent a couple trips to Hawaii and Took a fair share of knocks when I was a little kid trying to ride the big waves. And no I think that's just part of it. I don't think I've ever been uncomfortable in the water. So it's just a matter of trying to learn to maintain my composure and focus on the task at hand. Well, good luck. When is that race if it goes, it'll be the end of May? It's all kind of coming down to the wire. I'm not really sure I need to I need to sell another bike and in order to afford it. So it's a little chilly I was To well, it's going to be down south. That's why I got sellable. Oh, okay. It's like oh my God, if it's a Victorian freeze to death. No. No, I would freeze to death. But that way I would join you. I do not have a lot of a lot of installations. Oh, you don't I noticed that because you are making pasta with your shirt off on your own. Oh God. I hope I hope people get a good laugh out of that. I just I don't know. Know what you got abbs you should show them off cheers to that. I will continue just for that actually have a toy to have a portion of that because I saw a picture of you and Instagram know like showing the six-pack thing like, oh wow, and then right after that you posted a picture holding not only one but do huge ice cream cone how we do both so I'm I'm naturally quite slim on top of that the way that I train is so I do a lot of sort of interval intensity. So I do end up with a lot of like metabolic overload where I get that elevated temperature burning extra calories after the workout so over I've never really struggled with weight being on that. I didn't want on if anything I struggle to put it on. I find I'm more prone to actually lean out. And I think that actually owes to sort of the years as a weight class athlete and growing and in Combat Sports where it's like you're constantly thinking about not gaining weight. So there are some bad habits there. There's some things that I'm not so happy with so for me with Triathlon where it's like the more watts, you can make per kilo the better. I'm pretty I'm pretty pretty liberal with, you know, my intake I if you're after a race, I don't feel bad about having ice cream after a good heart session. I don't feel bad about you know, Putting a little extra and my smoothie and just trying to try to make sure that my body has what it needs. But at the same time I got to remember I'm coming from a position of like I would be underweight otherwise, so I'm carrying currently. I'm carrying about 15 pounds more muscle than I would have had had you met me five years ago. Well II could imagine if you're if you're like six foot two and a hundred fifty pounds while you're rowing that's pretty slim but on the The side of may be fantastic at climbing Hills on the bike and then I got shoulders and I got a lot harder. I know the swimmer shoulders do way down a little bit. But you know what they work well in the water did you but it's also the wind drag and like I'm like a sale now when I'm running if there's a head when to just the worst time I had I had a running race where there was a guy running dead behind me because like your great, this is awesome. I don't feel a thing. Like, thanks. Just a barrister. Billboard, so I also noticed that you do some you did, you know some other crazy swim things like the Polar Bear Dip and oh, yeah. Yeah, or was that just like so polar bear swim is on the first of the year we go down to the squabble Lagoon rate right in Coal wood and everybody kind of does a countdown and charges. In and takes a swim. Yeah in Canada. We did that in Grimsby to butt into Lake Ontario. However, I have I'll watch but I really don't want to take part. So happy. How did you do that? Like how cold is it so I think temperature-wise think the waters around six or seven degrees. I don't know where that converts to for Fahrenheit if four people in the US, but it's very cold, but at the Same time, it's not I don't know. How do I put it? It's it's all about saying yes to the wrong impulse. Like I even made a good laugh of it where like the first year I did it. I came out wearing my my team Canada student at my cap and goggles on and I did a full on race start like Sprint to the water and dive in but you just kind of get caught up in it. It's a lot of a lot of enthusiasm a lot of fun and do is it cold? I don't know. Yeah, but no one dies, so So it's more about the experience than the than the sensation and on top of that like I think cold water tolerance is something that you can kind of develop not saying that I would want to go swimming in 6 degree water or five degree water. Anything less said any at any stage, but you know, it's not something that's like so bad. I went to Holland quite a bit in the last couple years and there's a fellow went off that does a lot of Coldwater immersion stuff and so my chiropractors pretty big into him. So we Go and do Coldwater immersion sometimes after we do a track session. So do you think called a lot of bats don't actually have a bath right now, but I have the ocean right next door. So what I'm actually going to be doing I'm starting my Sprint training in the next week or two and I'll be doing my my Sprint training along the along the causeway and then I'll just hiked up my shorts and go walk into the water and hang out for a bit what it's neat to because I've got a couple friends that work at the pice, which is the athletic Development Center. And got to have just some chats with them about the benefits of Coldwater immersion therapy and it's you know different schools of thought but I think that it's worth it's worth giving a go and seeing what I see what I find. You know, it's like anything I'm not going to recommend anything that I haven't tried for a while yet. So I'll get back to you guys and how good it is. So I'm going to bring us back a little bit into the back to you know, you coming back from your injury getting back to triathlon. And I mean you got into the Sprint and then you you qualified for the 2017 world championships for spring. Yep. So, can you take us along that Journey a little bit on how you went from there to World Championships? I think like I'm trying to think of the concise way to phrase it it was it was something so this is something that I've actually seen in some other people some friends that I have. Where people pick an event and give it all kinds of weight as I will do this event and it will mean X y&z this this will be a defining moment for me. This will be when I prove this to myself. This will be when I show this capacity and I really liked when I so I qualified doing the race in Edmonton. It was at the end of a 2016 was really really fun season. I raced less than I did in 2015, but Erased more more consistently and More Much strong much more strongly and I sort of set the tone of like, yeah, maybe I could go and do that and I'd always kind of had this dream of competing internationally. Like when I was rowing I'd always wanted to try and be on Team Canada and go and race it at the pan am's or something like that. But the the issue was is being six foot two. I was too tall to be a really good lightweight and too short to be really good heavy weight. So I ended up in this like middle zone of being really good. But just not good enough and it was not so much my fault. It was just the fault of the sport in that it only has these two divisions and you know, that's that's just the hand you're dealt and Triathlon kind of gave me this opportunity to be like, well, I'm kind of built for everything in a way. I'm sort of I'm not particular this particular that if I really work at this maybe this could be the way that I could have that race and you know being coming from that place of being very Ellen and being in a deep depression and just having that thought that I could have that moment where I could do something that I had never been able to do even as deficient as I was even as limited as I was and it became this very big focal point for me. What ended up happening which I thought was the most remarkable though is that I went at went at it with that trying incredibly hard just pushing myself to that limit. I had quite a few injuries along the way I injured my back. I injured my knees I have No problems with my hips, you know, lots of lots of stuff just cropping up because I was just pushing and pushing and pushing and trying so desperately to make that dream a reality and what ended up happening was like I had the race before I was supposed to go off to do world's actually rewind a little bit further. I met somebody who had been an international competitor and somebody respected very very much and I'd sort of just come to them and confided them. Situation to be like I really need help because I believe that there was no way I was going to be able to do this just of my own accord. I needed guidance. I needed someone to sort of like show me the right way to do it to do it my best and what ended up happening was they actually completely dropped the ball like and not to not to fault them not to blame them. But at the same time everybody's got a life everybody thing to do. But like this was this was it for me and I had so much on it and then just like no help. Hmm. And there was that moment where I was like this race is going to be a disaster. Districts not going to be what I wanted it to be this race is not going to be this accomplishment. Well, it will be if anything it'll be me highlighting that I am uncapable incapable. Wow anyway, but oh no, I'm making mistakes, but no, but it put me in that position where I looked at that reality. And what happened was instead of Despair? I thought good because this race is not all it's about this is not going to end at that race. I'm not going to cross that finish line and be done. That's not the best I could ever do that's not going to tell me something about myself that I didn't know and with that it was it was honestly a wonderful thing because it made me put aside this idea that I had so much to prove and it was just something that I wanted to go and enjoy and more. / I was able to look and say like, you know my hip hurts my shoulder hurts my back hurts. What am I doing with myself and very very luckily. The next race that I did was where I met Michael Maxwell who's my chiropractor? And basically I had that conversation with him. I cross the finish line. I won my division, but I was hurt I could barely walk and this guy's working on me and I'm talking to me. It's like, you know Maybe I can help you out a bit and started working with him and I ended up six weeks later. I raced at the world's and the most exciting thing about racing at the world's was that I didn't hurt. And yes, I did I did honestly one of the best races that I've done and you know, I have those memories of pushing off the pushing off the the the water start with 90 other guys that were out there fighting for that spot and then coming out of the water and keeping Pace with all these guys and that was what I come there to do to have that experience to race at that level to sit in a bike Peloton and Chirp back and forth with guys in six different languages just because that's the way it goes. I mean it was Thrilling experience and because I wasn't so focused on the result like where I was on the bracket, it was more just to go there and do and do well for me not necessarily like cause I know that everybody's going to look at their results and say that's good. That's bad. I just wanted to look at it and say I did. To my ability honestly and from there move forward move on and say now that I've done this what else can I do and like I have I had the idea that I wanted to go back and do it again in lausanne this year, but my qualifier race, which was supposed to be the Apple Triathlon last year was cancelled because of fires which is very unfortunate. But with that it's like okay, there's no laws on this here. What am I going to do? How am I going to continue moving forward and That's why I've been able to sit back and say I really want to work on my swimming. I really enjoy being in the pool and refining my stroke and getting that really good feeling and same with running. I'm not doing tons of trail running now and just loving that idea of going out. I'll be back in 2 hours 3 hours whatever it's going to be I'm going to go and enjoy and come back and then when it comes time, like I don't have much I think I'll probably try and go for the world's again and And maybe 20 21 or 22 depending on where they're being held but it's um, it's just something that's out there and I can work towards it mindfully and healthily and and not put myself through that kind of suffering that I did in that 2016-2017 lead up to the World Championships. That was the most important thing. I think to learn that it's about enjoying the process and enjoying the result as opposed to, you know, beating yourself into a frame that you might not be able to fit in time and hanging everything on. Result because yeah, I think that's why so many people have that post-event depression where it's like, okay, it's over it was supposed to mean all of this and it didn't well, how can it possibly it was just erase the hours that you spent training the hours that you spent with the people that you work with like that was what got you there that was what was supposed to have the most value of anything if you put it all in that one moment. Well that moments gone. Are you going to keep on talking about it? Like come on, we got more stuff to do exactly. He don't want to relive Your Glory high school days for the rest of your life. You need to move forward, you know, well, it's no different from reliving a horrible moment. Like I could people talk about reliving a Gloria but at the same time he will relive horrible things to I mean, I you know, the moment on the podium is just as long as the moment sitting trying to check over my bike after the crash. I mean they're going to matter as much as you let the matter. Yeah, love Perspective so what do you have going on for the rest of the year you obviously have you may be going to this 10 K swim but apart from that. What's the season look like? So unfortunately, I need to sell all my bikes because so many bikes. Do you have I had so at the peak I had for I had the one that I initially bought when I was in Kona and then I built two more and I bought another one. One that I used when I was in Rotterdam, but yeah, it was just I don't want to I know that I mentioned budget but you got to understand like this is Bargain Bin Triathlon. Like I found a frame for x amount of dollars. I found a group set for x amount of dollars in like if I tried to buy these bikes new never going to happen, but I was able to put together a decent kit just by being resourceful and being well just having a lot of time to put them together like another thing that On the way as I learned how to be a bike mechanic. So it was just part and parcel with that. But yeah, I'm I'm at a point now where it's like if I'm going to, you know, make it out and make it onto something new. I have to sort of divest myself of them and then hopefully reinvest later so I'm going to spend the rest of the year working on swimming and running and trying to save some money and hopefully hopefully I can bring some good strong bike legs back and in later years, but with that I don't know if you guys are familiar with swim run. Yes. Yeah. Yes. What have you heard Sheila? Well, what's interesting is that we have a little swim run series actually out here if you've been to Gulliver's like you know where that is you you went to Guelph. It's it's it's in close to Hamilton. It's kind of in between. We have a swim run series actually called stroke and stride out here. Yeah, so it It's interesting because they got different different distances, but it's generally Sprint and that one at the end of August actually has spots for the aqua Thon World Championships. So now this is a question. This is a quick one. So talk with on and swim run like familiar with it. I think I don't I mispronounced Attila or otello. The one that they run in Europe. Yeah, is that the one where you can take your paddles and Orphan, yeah, where are you? Yeah. Yeah wetsuit you swim in your swimming your shoes tapping. We have some of those out here too and not know what's Ramona. Basically, I thought all swim runs are like that. Well, it's just with aqua thought you get like so the North American multi-sport ethos where you finish one and you're done with it and you never go back to it. Unless you're doing a duathlon. Yeah, but with with the swimmer, it's just like that Pursuit kind of point to point and I just I thought that was pretty cool. I was able to I was able to spend some time with some people that do that in Spain last year. And they basically just put me through the paces and took me on one of the one of the courses. I was like, this is a crazy sport. I wouldn't mind trying this and I did a little bit of digging and found that there's a couple and the Pacific Northwest and hopefully going to be able to do some of those. I've got some friends like the neat thing is that it's a team sport you get tied to somebody and then you go off and do this thing. You're not allowed to be more than 10 meters away from them at any time. So that's different than ours. We have a lot in well and to where you take your paddles you go from point to point you swim your Right and you take your stuff you have your shoes, you have to carry everything your individual. Yeah, and and the Hallmark of the European ones that the people that I was talking with first, you know, you do it as a team. You have to find somebody to do with I thought that added an element that was really cool. I mean Triathlon is, you know, pretty solitary and sometimes it's just kind of nice like hey, I really like the swim harder. I'm not letting them go. So, do you have someone I have a couple people that are interested there is I don't know if you know Danny Olson in Edmonton. She's expressed some interest. There's a lady named Katie good deck down in La she's expressed some interest. My friend Kirsten is also another person's just like and I want to try and get my buddy Tim into it too. So it's I think that's the whole idea is that you have friends like hey, this is sound fun. It's more like it's more like a drunken bet that a race. So there's appeal there and and it just gives me the freedom to kind of stretch out my distances and and work on the things that I'm trying to develop and you know, hopefully come to come back to Sprint distance Triathlon and in 2020 and 2021 is like just a more knowledgeable and more skilled more skilled competitor. I think I just had just some random question that I saw online and I just more of a general interest question. It's I saw that you were called Tigger and High School. Curious as to why that was. Okay. So first of all, where did you come here? And I found it while I was combing through and stalking you. Okay, so Tigger, so yeah, I so at school that I went to their very very tall ceilings and there were was probably I don't know. I just I just had really good jumper good Goodell. Good word for a kid and I was way around by anxious. I just never really slowed down. So the most common thing that you'd see if you saw me sort of an off hours to be trying to jump and grab something like I wanted to see if I could dunk the basketball I wanted to so it just became a thing just having tons of energy and being really active and just yeah generally being a bit of a nut and it just it came with it. I was just unapologetically enthusiastic about everything that In front of me and that was the name of the stock. That's good. And I still seems like you're really enthusiastic about everything that's put in front of you like you're really going for what you want. So it's awesome for sure. So what's the message? You want people listening to take away from your story? I think I don't know. It's I don't want to be reductive and boiled down to a single thing. The the most important aspects are there are always going to be obstacles. It doesn't get easier. You just get better at managing it sometimes you have things you can control but even in those elements there are things that you can choose and I'm like, I think that's the one thing that people here that really makes a lot of people grind their teeth as you can choose. Be happy. No, I don't think that that's always true. But you can choose to take steps and move forward in small ways to a way that could lead you to a better place that could lead to a better result and I think for someone anyone who's struggling with mental health anyone who has an injury that they're coping with anybody who's just really struggling with a plateau and their and their athletic capacity. Like don't despair. Don't stop keep looking for a small. A thing keep looking for something that you can do right now that's right in front of you that will move you forward that I think that would be the most important thing. I could tell somebody don't stop it's not worth it. I remember there was a don't know if any of you guys are familiar with José Mojica. Nope. No, he was the president of Uruguay, but he had a really wonderful thing that you did for the BBC were just talks about his life philosophy and one of the things that he says is that it is always worth Over once or thousand times as long as you're still alive just yeah, I think that's the biggest part hmm little bit. Okay. Now there any people are brands that you like to give a shout out to here. Yeah. Absolutely. I am incredibly grateful to dr. Michael Maxwell. He's been my chiropractor since August of 2017. He's yeah, he's fixed every single problem. I brought it brought to him. He's really really knowledgeable and I just could not could not have done a lot of this without them because you know injuries happen and the best way to manage them as was somebody who really knows what's going on. I've had I've had help from Suzanne Bob shoes with Aqua Sphere. She's been very kind to reading some swim gear for me. And yeah. There's an honesty. There's a lot of people that I should think and and I don't want to go down a long list and forget people that are important. I mean my training partner Darcy Hines, he's been a good friend to me since 2015. I don't remember meeting him. But when I finally came to he was a good friend of mine. So it's yeah, it's a bit crazy that way my parents are behind me hundred percent and I know that I know that it's been really hard for them. So I'm glad that they can You know be proud of some of the stuff that I'm able to accomplish than the direction that I'm heading. But yeah, as far as Branch shoutouts, I mean that Triathlon isn't exactly a giving sport sometimes but we take it in good humour and and we keep on trying. All right, then before we ask our last question tell everyone where they can follow you online and what you make pasta shirtless. Yeah. Find me on Instagram at so underscore Arrow a ero, and that's really my main online presence. I might be doing a thing on swim run in the near future that will be at West Coast swim run, but that's not up and running yet. So don't don't jump on it too quickly. Yeah, that's what that would be great. If anybody and if anyone wants to reach out talk swimming technique or running technique anything. I really happy to hear from people and just have the dialogue. Always always happy to have the conversation because it's just we're all passionate. So it's great to just bring people together and and see what's really going on have your finger on the pulse. Great. Okay, and last question is why do you try? Society I know and I hate to keep you in suspense. It's just because the answer changes year by year. If you would ask me that three years ago two years ago last year my answer now I try because it's a worthwhile challenge. It's something that comes up that you don't have all the answers for and it asks you to find them and I embrace that concept awesome. It's been amazing having On the show. It's amazing to see how you've progressed from where you are to now where you are. And personally I just took away lots of messages that I needed to hear I think so. Thank you so much for coming on the show Absolutely. Thanks so much for inviting me guys. It's been a real pleasure. Thanks for listening everyone. Thanks for being a part of this humans of triathlon Community. Hope you're enjoying the show and I love the content. Make sure to join us again next week here on the hot podcast where we'll bring you another amazing guest and story from this Audrey. But extra Audrey world of triathlon until then everyone keep trying.
After doing his first Triathlon after an impromptu signup while on vacation in Hawaii in 2014, while riding one day, Robert Sainsbury suffered a traumatic brain injury (TBI) after colliding with another cyclist. He remembers very little of late 2014 & most of 2015. And his symptoms included cognitive fatigue, memory loss, insomnia, depression, mood swings, difficulty reading & writing, etc. - making basic daily tasks exhausting. In addition to his career & a relationship, he also lost his independence. With his condition getting progressively worse, he turned to Triathlon as it offered him a way to stay active and learn a new skill - both of which would aid his recovery. Little by little he started to improve. In 2016 he was a TriBC Provincial Champ. In 2017 and he raced the ITU Sprint Grand Final in Rotterdam as a member of Team Canada. He says his TBI rehab and Triathlon progress are linked. Some days are better than others, but by understanding and embracing consistent healthy effort & marginal gains, he continues to recover & Triathlon helps guide him down that path. - SPONSOR: check out the Triathlon training series with the Pros at https://www.humansoftriathlon.com/protri - use code 'humansoftriathlon' for 20% off! It would help us out a ton! - FEEDBACK: to help us improve the show going forward, please take 5 minutes to share your anonymous and honest feedback here - http://bit.ly/hotpodcastsurvey  - SHOW NOTES / WEBSITE: https://www.humansoftriathlon.com/hotpodcast-rob  - H.O.T SOCIAL MEDIA: Instagram | Facebook | Strava  - HOSTS: Swapneel Chouhan, Sheila Treleaven, & Carlos (Charles) Galan  - INTRO/OUTRO MUSIC: produced by Vasil Zguri at SoundPulse 