Welcome back to the inspiration space. I'm actually recording this in a slightly different setting what I normally do. I'm calling it on a little river going down in bath just doing a little bit of punting but I thought I would kill two birds with one stone because his bank holiday weekend. And the sun is shining and it's just pretty amazing sitting had this in my bag got might as well do it now. So I hope you're having a fantastic bank holiday. Just wanted to do today's guest which was one of the best episodes. I personally think I've ever done with Vanessa molten. Dr. Vanessa molten. She is an amazing amazing lady. She has done some fantastic work in the psychological Health space. I'm not going to ruin any of the episode now which talks a lot about the Uum of psychological well-being that'll make a lot more sense. Once you listen to the whole episode is a little bit longer than what I normally do but it's definitely definitely worth a listen. So please get stuck in. She's fantastic fantastic lady. I really really enjoyed this one and yeah get stuck into it. Hope you can really get some take some things from it. Get some get some insight into what's going on in the mental health space at the moment, and yes, enjoy have a fantastic bank holiday, and I will see you soon. Thank you so so much for coming down. I know you're such a busy person and sure your loads of stuff going on but I it's funny. I have a lot of people in the show and when I was doing my research on you and all the different compartments, there is so much to speak about which is great, which is really excites me and I've got a kind of, you know rocks a couple of topics. I really want to touch on but before we really get stuck in I think it'd be best just to maybe introduce several little bit get a bit of context on you your field of work and really how you got into. Yeah, so I'm a psychologist which is a confuses people right from the start because actually the world of psychology is quite confusing I think for most people so I'm psychologist so I might I suppose my bread-and-butter very much is therapy sure. But at the moment I kind of spread my my time in my expertise amongst a whole load of different things from coaching therapy workshops kind of business Consulting. And I suppose it never really I hadn't I probably never planned for it to evolve in this way, which is exciting and it's great because I love the variation of the stuff that I do. So originally I did it. I did a psychology degree many moons ago. And I don't know I think I had a perception at the end of my psychology degree that it to be a psychologist you had to be in I don't know in a white coat in a research lab. When I just thought it's not really my gig really so I didn't do anything psychology related. Well you could I convince myself I did. Yeah, I went into marketing. So I said my I was using my knowledge of understanding people but I sense it does make sense kind of So I entered into the marketing world and probably quite a nice time actually. Well, it was just right at the end where you still had to send creative through the post on boards. So it was the good old days of the good old days which then turned into you know a lot. Well, it was always very hard work very hard paste and I did love it and it was it was it was a great grounding and fantastic to do German 20s, but I always had this I don't know niggling this thing. This urged I needed to do something more or just something different. And kind of fuel the appetite that I had in relation to kind of mind and body and I when I first applied University I first applied to do physiotherapy. So when I was I was working Martin ages in then I decided oh, I'll do a massage course. So I did an evening massage course again, it was just I look back now and I could see myself just trying to find something that would kind of fulfill that desire that I needed. to fulfill in relation to my work and I did that course and obviously done nothing with that and then hit my 30s and I thought you know what I really want to do something with my psychology thought it might be quite simple and I would do another evening course in something and I found out that it involves quite a lot of work, but because I'd had my Adam my psychology degree that meant I could do a doctorate in Psychology and I could become a psychologist and I could become a doctor which at the time I was like, wow, that sounds I might if I'm gonna do it I might as well do it and it's a it was just a huge huge undertaking it Still Remains. One of my I suppose one of my proudest things I've achieved and when we talk about grit later, you know that involved a lot of grit which is all about, you know, perceive it perseverance and passion for a long. I'm goal. And that was it was just this long-term goal for me. So it was a three-year uni course with clinical placements throughout I had to be in therapy for the whole of the three years myself. And then you have a very large piece of research sure that you have to do and someone said to me and I wish I could remember because this probably was very much influenced where my kind of specialism to a Certain degree went they said to me make sure the topic that you do your thesis on which ended up being 50,000 words. It's something that you're passionate about because There Will Be Blood Sweat and Tears which there was which is great. Yeah and my brother served in the in the parachute regiment for over 20 years, and we're very close and it wasn't a conscious decision that therefore I would do kind of all specialized. Military mental health, but I thought well, you know what it's a narrow. I'm really passionate about it feels meaningful. It has a sense of purpose about if I do some research on Military and so I approached a military charity called combat stress and I ended up doing my research on Veterans from Iraq and afghan with post-traumatic stress disorder which then turned into me doing clinical placement there which then turned into me. Being at Headley Court, which is the ministry of defense's Rehabilitation Center or was they've just moved actually during the thick of Afghan in their mental health Team and then I went back to combat stress and worked on their first six week post traumatic stress disorder course and then and then I went to help for Heroes and I headed up the psychological well-being services at help for Heroes. We had they have for recovery. Centers across the country incredible places to be involved with this honestly. I mean just mind-boggling stuff you must have yeah and it's it's, you know, it's really important that you keep a good balance on I mean, ironically, you know help for Heroes an amazing charity. They you know, these guys hate being called Heroes. It's despite the name and you know, you never want to Share too much how inspiring you find these people these people because it makes them feel very uncomfortable, but they are I mean it's a it's incredible, you know from not just the ones who were, you know, injured whilst on on tour abroad but also just the amount of work and dedication. It's not it's not work. It's a way of life really and the transition process. S coming out of the forces is huge and can have a real a real impact. So, you know, it's one of one of my one of my still is bugbears because I still work in an environment in that environment for the role Foundation the ministry of Defense when a really exciting project but it's one of the things that has become a bit of a Bang a Drum that I keep backing is that whenever people think about military Folk. And you sandwich it together with the word mental health. Everyone thinks they all suffer with post-traumatic stress disorder. And actually yes, there are a number that do but not a huge amount more than the general population though. There is a certain kind of segment of them that do the younger Lads in the ones who have served but actually it's more the general General and common mental health disorders like anxiety and depression and panic. They're the most prevalent. Things because actually transition period out of something like the forces is huge. So yes, I have to say I been a hell of a journey. It's been a huge journey and early 2000. This sounds like early 2000s that it really started started yet with the Afghanistan initially. Yes. Yeah and then all through you know all through my training mean right from go you have to start doing one-to-one therapy with people. So I've always kept up my one to one of therapy with non-military. I don't call them civilians because that's but that's what the military how they would make sure think should I've always done one-to-one therapy, which has always been really important to me to keep up there very much on the ground work and I work with from teenagers right up until right up and people into their 80s and I love that. I love the variation. I mean, there are so many little bits that I could have drawn on there and jumped in nice. Question fascinating by the way, I really is I mean mental health is a major component of this podcast and something I find really interesting. It's actually something I would love to potentially think about going to see one day myself. But what I want to start with is is a phrase that we're not phrase It's a term that's on your website that I couldn't take my eyes off initially when I was doing my research on you and it's psychological Fitness and you talked a little bit but back then just about mind the fact that you love mind and body and how they're connected. It is such a brilliant term actually psychological Fitness because everyone kind of thinks Fitness is it it's a very something wrong just with your with your body, you know, your physical fitness, but it's now as we all know this men's with the mental health pushes going on psychological Fitness is such a great term to Define what this is and it's something that needs just much just as much work if not more on your psychological Fitness in order to in order to you know, be happy and Filter field and and have a sort of purpose. So I think my first question really here is in what's the in terms of psychological Fitness? How has this become such over the last 20 years in your experience. How has it developed into where it is now. I mean, what's the kind of trends that you've seen over the last 20 years that have become extremely noticeable. That's a probably get one star on. Yeah. Okay, so do that before talking about at what actually psychological very well. Yeah, and then In there ya know and just to kind of highlight from the start psychological Fitness is not necessarily a new phrase. But and it's not necessarily a new approach, but it seems to be an approach that seems much more relevant to their here and now and I'll come back to what that means. So yeah, I mean gosh even from the beginning of my training to have been able to predict that mental health and the focus on and I'm going to and I'm going to this point start calling it psychological well-being. Okay, okay. And that will make a little bit more sense in a minute. You know that how that would kind of escalate over the period of time that I've been involved in. It is been quite incredible, you know, we could chat about stats and stuff and how figures have risen over the last kind of 20 years, you know, one of the things to to recognize I suppose at this point is there still is an unknown as to whether or not people the prevalence of mental health has increased or is it a combination of the fact that we are now a lot more open to talking about it and stigma has reduced. Its there's a still a huge amount of segue but stigma has a reduced there are more service available. There are more services marketing their services. So we don't totally know whether we have just more people coming forward and acknowledging our reporting mental health issues whether we have More people with mental health issues if that car. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, but the point being that kind of doesn't really matter it's relevant. So whatever reason we have more people, I think this is the easiest way to look at it. We have more people who come forward looking for support which is great and the combination of the focus and I suppose the research on the impact that mental health and mental psychological ill-health can have on not just someone's workplace environment, you know, but on their family life in terms of their relationship, it is all encompassing really in relation to someone's kind of holistic self. So, you know the changes I suppose over the last 20 odd years stigma is is a big one that the more that we can change the stigma or change the conversation about psychological well-being. Inge the more chance we've got of people kind of coming forward we know that in relation to women versus men we have when women tend to be report a high a higher level or report more mental health issues the men not dramatically equally when you break it down into things like, you know suicide for example, you know of the amount of suicides 75 percent men so that you can break the Differences depend upon what you're looking at and also the you know, the different kind of demographics that we social demographics has there been a rise in in men coming to you over the last 20 28 it over that because my my psyche I see a psychoanalyst psychotherapist once every six months you see much more regularly. Yeah, and he said that the biggest Trend he seen is the amount of men that he sees now. Yeah, but it's when he started out there. Yeah is go. Yeah. It is fascinating is really encouraging thing to see is It's brilliant. I mean obviously being doing a lot of work in the military that wasn't a majority but in relation to my private practice, yes, absolutely and I think key key groups like men and also which I find quite fascinating the moment and lots of other people find this fascinating quite a lot of people in their later years, you know in their 70s and 80s interest and there's this real perception that by that point surely fast. Yeah, absolutely surely, you know, but and actually know No, we all learn and it demonstrates that throughout our lifespan our psychological Health shifts up and down this Continuum, which is when I'm going to come back to this why I call it psychological well-being as opposed to mental health as a total, you know how things have changed over the last 20 years from from a business perspective that there has been a lot more focus on understanding on how much a business losses due to people being off with mental health. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so businesses are now, you know being hugely encouraged from a government from a government level to take care of people's psychological health. So massive surge in this thing called Mental Health First Aid which is an organization that trains up kind of mental health champions in businesses to kind of make themselves more aware and accessible for people if they want to talk about mental health and and you know businesses also, Been encouraged to or leaders been encouraged to talk about and show personal levels of vulnerability and vulnerability. I don't know if you've ever seen any of brene brown stuff, but it was the thing that took my eye the most on that grit. Yeah the stop you Simeon. Great. Yeah. Yeah, please talk about it. It's yes, it's fast like it's funny because will come to grow in a second. I don't want to muffle things because when I would go a bit of a directional but Great does sound like a kind of very Macho term from the outside. Hmm. So when you kind of come across that and then you start being a little bit what it's about. You don't think kind of vulnerability will come into it but it's such a massive facet of it as a term. Really, isn't it? Yeah. No, absolutely and there's two real key psychologists in the state. So, you know, Angela Duckworth is your grip woman and brene brown is your vulnerability women and you know, I know I sent I sent you a cross some stuff which was just like a mind dump on on things really but you know, I think that you know, a lot has been said about grit recently that you know, the younger generation and not necessarily as gritty and what we mean by that I having the kind of the level of perseverance to keep sticking at things and dig in deep and because there's just so many choices so much choice these days and there's so many different opportunities. It's very easy to just kind of drop something move on to the thing but yeah, so in relation to grit and vulnerability, you know, great is about keeping going and persevering and finding things that you're passionate about to keep you driven to keep going in something and so actually the same time the notion of being vulnerable almost feels like a conflict of a contradiction, but actually they're they're so important to be combined together, you know, if you have the ability to Be vulnerable and then we vulnerability is with being vulnerable with others, you know being able to show sides of yourself that perhaps for you feel might be judged as a weakness, you know, when you are able to share that side of you the the changing kind of connections that you have with people and people are you allow people to support you in that, you know, and then we go back to grit, you know to be gritty you need to surround yourself by people as well that keep you going. So, you know, there's that it's all is so intertwined so difficult in in Psychology to break stuff off, you know, and that's why you know, that's why you'll find this conversation will probably keep going off and other things because it just actually represents what happens with the mind, you know, and the different approaches and I was like, that's the other thing which has been great in terms of changes over the last 20 years is that there has been a real growth and development and acceptance. It's of different approaches. You know, I am very much a one size doesn't fit all you know, there are lots of different therapeutic interventions. I'm I am very much someone who likes to use the interventions that that her are evidence-based have got the research behind them. But you know, we're not just restricted now to you know, the psychoanalytic approach, you know, the CBT Model cycle cognitive behavioral therapy is See the most kind of widely used. It's got the most amount of research behind it. Equally I know that's not going to be right for every 1 foot for everybody. You know, I use and I use a lot of compassion focused therapy, which is huge and it's hugely important, especially working with people who you know struggle with anxiety and stress, which is one of those common issues, you know, if we can learn to be more self accepting self-compassionate So we literally calm our threat and fight or flight system down and that's the biological that's that's biology. It's not fluff. Yeah. I'm so excited. It's science, you know, we have a threat system which is you know is activated it is online when we feel stressed and anxious and we also have a soothing system and if we ignore that soothing system, we don't bring that online. We are throwing fuel over the threat system and its basic stuff like that. That's which is once you explain that to someone and help them make sense of it and let's move forward. Yeah, you've got to make people aware of what's going on. And so that's another big part of my Approach. I suppose is a hugely believe that there's no point. We just telling someone to do breathing exercises because it will help. I know it will help. Yeah. I know if you do two minutes where you're breathing out for longer than you are breathing it and you will feel less stressed, but I want to tell you why. Yeah, so there's more chance. It's that you'll use that yeah 100% I mean those those things that you've seen in the last 20 years are fascinating and it's the way it's moving is Extreme overall extremely positive. I think something that you also touched on there is it was sort of a one size fits all which is something I really want to move on to now and it's it's something that but not one size doesn't feel sorry. I should say it's what you do in college what I understand from your website as well. He knows the flexibility of thought and action. Which from I mean, I've done limited research in this field in all honesty. But what I have read in the past, there's a book that kind of made me stood out to me when when I when I read that term and it's the growth versus fixed mindset, but have you read that mindset by Carol dweck? Yes. Yeah. I mean, it's it's a book that really did kind of change my mindset in a massive way and made everything a lot more made may not everything. People were categorized very quickly for me after reading especially the first chapter of that book and I assume that you must have to deal with a lot of fixed minded individuals at first whether it be just on a one-on-one basis will organizational basis. Could you just quickly describe for our listeners? If they don't know any kind of the difference between somebody's bit more fixed mindset and and someone is a bit more growth mindset the differences and and maybe how you kind of approach somebody with a fixed mindset. You know in your therapy sessions, I think that that's not quite interesting just in terms of how people could almost deal with a fixed mindset person themselves on a day-to-day basis because we all come across them. Yeah, like toddlers. For example. Yeah. I cannot tell you how I'm applying this to join toddler at the moment, which is how you get them to reframe stuff or you've read you reframe it for them. So it helps them look at things differently. But yes, no, absolutely. I think so. I supposed to perhaps Apps to start with is to explain obviously you've just it's been fixed versus growth mindset fixed means that we're quite rigid in the way that we think and growth means that we're open to change and we're and we're flexible. So I think the important to highlight is our kind of brain is designed to be fixed to a certain degree and what I mean by that is A brain receives a million bits of millions and millions of bits of information every second. It's insane what our brain process especially nowadays yet not right and exactly and it has to it has to take some shortcuts, you know, it can't it has to create rules in relation to how it makes decisions how we make judgments all those sorts of things. We have to your brain will just automatically is designed to make shortcuts and Makes those shortcuts based on or it makes those rules based on the experiences that you have. So right from the word go your experiences that you have from a child, you know, you might do something which results in something good or bad and your brain make creates a rule about that. Okay, and you're smiling I am. Okay and and so you can reach I don't know. No, teenage years and adult years the 70 80 year-old my father. Okay, here we go. And you're still using the same rule that you have used your brain takes that it's a bit like the, you know, wearing a pair of glasses and the lens that you see the world through you interpret what's going on in the world based on that lens. And that lens is that filter is based on the rules that you have created. Sometimes those rules service and at one point generally our rules have served us at one point, but you know things service very differently When We're Young versus when we were older and I don't want to make differentiation that or I don't want to sound like we're just making these rules when we're young. We're creating them day in day out. But if we've created a rule that then unconsciously your brain just behaves or thinks based on that rule over and over and over and over it becomes so fixed it. Um, so entrenched that that is just the way that your brain processes stuff automatically and as I said, it might have served at one point, but there's a chance and especially people that I'm seeing in therapy. They've got some rules going on that are not working for them anymore. And I love saying that now, I'm sorry. All right. What and how's that working for you now and they kind of long they go on. It's clearly not working anymore. Is it and it's equally this is all happening unconsciously, so Until we are in a situation where we are either have the opportunity to therapist or a coach or you've got friends or you're a very self-reflective person. You just keep going on day in day out doing what you normally do. I always like to describe it as a bit like, you know, we're on autopilot a lot of the time and we have to be to be able to process all this stuff but to be able to make changes and to be flexible. Isabel you have to come off autopilot. You have to be able to sit back and go. Okay. How did I respond to that? What was I thinking at the time that made me feel like that? That didn't feel so great. Was it what I did was it the way I was thinking and then you have to go. Yeah, but that, you know, then you'll then you have a but that's who I am. That's you know, what? Yeah, and that's the way I think and that's who I've always been and that's the way it needs to be and that's the fixed mindset. Then you go back to the question. And is that working right now? No. Okay. Well, you've got two choices you either keep going that way or you consciously decide to perhaps consider that there are other possibilities here. Just you know, even if just if the tiny possibility that you're open to that then we can work with that and it's my town. It's my job to help people. Recognize that there is value in potentially doing that. And as I said, I'll say you don't have to believe that fully right now or that option or that possibility. But is there even 5% 10% that that different way of thinking really to yield results could be slightly better and as long as you got that tiny bit to work on but you but usually what happens as well and the thing to understand with fixed mindsets is usually those rules again, not necessarily. Sara Lee from a conscious level but they keep us feeling safe. It might not be working for us. But it serves in terms of what we would call a second. There is a second regain their you know, no, I don't I don't know. I'm trying to think of a rule. I don't know I you know, I don't do presentations in front of big people like people sorry big groups of people and okay, that's it and you're not you know. That's it. Okay, but money house. Is that does that limit you? Yes, it does because that means I can't do presentations to the law. Okay. Is there a possibility that you might be able to have you ever thought about that? Yeah. So yeah so flexibility and you know, my my my company is called mine Flex because for me one of the most important things and there's too many important things. It's not the only thing but one of the most important things is is a to be able to You embrace the possibility of being more flexible in the way that you do things and the way that you think about things amazing. So I've just realized we never actually I cut you off because like you said, this is all intertwining. We never got around to the definition of psychological well-being but I think what my next question be will basically be getting people onto this flexibility of thinking and action, okay. Firstly give us your definition of psychological well-being and and how does getting somebody on to this flexibility of action and thought help that psychological well-being. Yeah, get get you into a good place within your own psychological well-being, huh? How can it how can it help boost you in that compartment? Okay, so if I go back to because I know I mentioned this psychological well-being Continuum and haven't actually explained it. So I generally Quran explain everything on a Continuum because everything sits on a Continuum and it's quite quite an easy kind of thing to explain if you work from you know, two things that polar ends of a Continuum of a scale sure so psychological well-being encompasses both psychological Fitness at one end of that can one end of the Continuum and psychological ill health at the other end. Okay? Okay, so and Where where we have evolved is that psychological ill health by has been defined mainly in the mental health kind of term. So if you say the word mental health to someone they don't think of that whole Continuum or spectrum. They think of the end of mental ill-health. So if I say we all have mental health everyone goes. Oh you mean I-10 depression it's like know so that's why I tend to prefer the word psychological well-being because actually what I'm talking about, is that whole Continuum that we all have and in an Ideal World, what we want to do is help people keep psychologically fit. We want to be a trend that end of the scale and and I suppose the psychological Fitness side of things is all about trying to educate people that it's that you shouldn't it just be paying attention to your psychological well-being when there's mental ill health issues. We can focus on a day-to-day basis just as you would know on your physical, you know on your physical fitness and there are a number of different things which includes flexibility of thought and coming back to it. There are a number of different tools and strategies that we can do to help ourselves. Keep psychologically fit. So we are talking that psychological Fitness is more in the prevention side of things or the prevention Space versus you know, where once we've got two mental ill-health. We're in the we're in the treatment end. So psychological flexibility is just one of the tools or one of the approaches that we can use to help ourselves. Keep psychologically fit. So so for example thought challenging you You know, if we help people recognize that on a day-to-day basis, they might be they might have a fixed mindset about the way that they do things the way that they approach things. There is a very simple kind of step-by-step process that you can do to a stop and engage with how you're thinking about something stop and say well is that working for me right now then go what? Okay, are there other Alternatives or what is the evidence that was suggested? Is that my way is the only way of thinking about something what are the options? Right? You know what I'm going to have to I'm going to take a risk because it does as I say it takes a bit of a risk because people feel safe thinking and doing things the same way that they always have done. So having Flex the port flexible thought or being able to be in a place where you can regularly challenge the way that you are thinking and doing things enables you to be open. To lots more opportunities and becomes much less limiting for you so curb like a weight coming off of your chest sort of a sudden this yeah, but it's like it's like when you when I don't know you have a conversation with someone and you and and you say well I'm going to do this and it has to be like this and they'll go on does it really you go? We'll start looking down other Avenue. Yeah, and actually actually you it's just there's space. There's just different options. So yeah, it's a very key part of kind of that psychological Fitness. Yeah abbs and there's tons of other alone website again longer afraid keep referring to it, but it was such a useful resource for me to pull my notes together. Yeah flexible adaptive thinking so that's baseball we spoke but there's loads of other areas that you talked about and just touch on a few of them. So resilience tools been one relationships and emotional support being another downtime that Massive one. I mean that from personal experience. I've I've touched on I'm actually done a solo podcast. I'm going to release in a couple of weeks on my kind of process, but maybe if we could talk about the you know, the importance of downtime your experience and kind of your thoughts on because it's probably a very subjective thing as downtime can mean a lot of anxiety. Yeah, and that's the thing that's really important and in everything that you do in any of the ways that you decide to Make a bit of a conscious choice to develop or you to work on is to recognize that everybody is unique and everybody's different and there is no fixed. You know, this isn't though. This isn't the medical model where we know that if you've broken your leg. This is the way this bone needs to be fixed in this way. It's so flexible in terms of the way you need to approach it, but down time is so important and actually just wrote an article recently on Alone time versus alone time kind of versus downtime as well. So maybe highlight the difference but as we mentioned earlier the amount that your brain has to process day in day out in relation to the amount of stimulus that we received is, you know has has increased so much the pace that we live life by by now, you know and perhaps we are have been not perhaps We all make choices. I know but we're kind of forced into this kind of fast pace of life. And I think sometimes it's almost it's almost weird. If you know, you would never go. Oh, how are you doing? Oh, yeah. I'm not done. You know, I'm not I'm not so much, you know, they almost like the automatic responses are crazy busy. But you know and that is almost with certain degree deemed to be a measure of success is how busy you are and then what ends up happening is, you know, Like you're you know Fitness training if you if you did full-on work out twice a day every day you get knackered and your brain is like a muscle in itself it gets exhausted and you can't you know, you know, we can't expect it to keep doing what it's doing day in day out without giving it some rest. So downtime is so important quite simply to help relax the the prefrontal cortex bit of your brain. Just needs some some relaxation and some down time and and actually so, you know, there's downtime which is away from perhaps the things that feel stressful. There's also things, you know, and and so for you or for other people that could be, you know, socializing with other people go into the cinema blah lots of different things equally alone time where there is no one else around is also really important. And then we have the difficulty where people confuse alone time with being lonely. You know, that's deemed. You know, you're on your own. What are you on your own? And actually, you know, when you're on your own you you don't have to process what someone else might be thinking or you don't have to you don't have to think about anybody else and it's really important. I downtime on our and downtime and alone time is great for our own creativity. It allows our brains space to think. Reflect you know, we're rubbish at self-reflection because we're constantly either thinking what's happened in the past or what's happened in the future. You know, it's that it makes it easier to be more present which we know to kind of moving towards the notion of kind of mindfulness, you know, all those elements helped literally calm the brain down and give the brain space just to have a little bit of time out. Yeah. It's amazing that like, I'm not drinking alone time specific. I'm never I mean I know what it is but separating the two I think is important because I am not I'm doing this is this is amazing context because I've just come back from a weekend which I do every six weeks. I go down to the coast with my dog. Mmm, and I don't speak to anyone from Friday evening until Sunday Sunday evening. Yeah, and it like I'm not saying that my job is any more sort of intense than others. Everyone's got an intense job, but I know the my job. I'm having upwards of 200 conversations a day. I'm also physically training. Yeah, I'm also trying to think of elements of the business moving forward. So it just doesn't stop. Yeah and as much as you think you like Superman in actually comes to a point where you can't and and Tristan my business partner actually read an article recently, which was found fascinating is that you actually have so many conversations that you physically can't take in anymore information or have any more or any interaction you have becomes null because you're not able to process their Feelings anymore and and give your opinion or help them or give guidance and you just physically can't do it and like you said, like people do think that having alone time is weird. And and to me it's become a complete non-negotiable. That's great. I physically can't I can't I know that if I've got it coming up I'll be able to go that extra mile just a little bit longer because I know those two days. Game-changing. Yeah, so yeah and a really healthy coping strategy effectively that you know to cope with and it is about identifying these healthier coping strategies because otherwise we you know, we use unhealthy coping strategies, you know drink and I'm not saying but you know, it's it Dusty doesn't Appeals Council and healthy. Yes, it does escape escape and yeah the wrong kind of Escape. Yeah, but it's all about balance because that is That you that you do that that you've made a choice to do that that it's a non-negotiable equally at the same time. Obviously if you were doing that every single weekend, we'd be going okay. Hold on a second. You're taking yourself off a human voice, you know you avoiding people because we know and that's one of the other aspects on the site Fitness factors is in relation in terms of relationships, you know, we are hard-wired to be with people. You know and it goes back to the day of you know, the group mentality and we only really survived as part of parts of groups. But you know our social support network, you know, this is the research backs is that has backed this up for ages now, but but social support is the biggest protective factor for mental health or for our psychological well-being. So it is the number one factor. To or for me would be a number one risk factor if I'm working with someone and they turn around so, you know, they have no friends or family to support them. And it almost doesn't matter how much therapy I would do with them. They need you need to have social support around you but it is all about the right balance. Yeah, you know, if you don't if you're constantly with people or you don't get that time out, then it will go the other way again, so it's about You know and over time and it does take time. It takes years to work out what fits and what feels right for you. And also what feels right for you now. Yeah, because that, you know 10 years ago when I worked might not work, it's funny. I was speaking to a close friend of mine who is a little bit younger and I said to him, you know going through a very difficult time and moment. I just said look mate just take yourself off and you know, you know, you know what I do. He's like, yeah, but that just doesn't work for me if I go off by myself now and and by myself Dude, it's not a good good environment for me. Yeah, and now hearing that having to balance across all of them and you know your plan to your plan your your personal plan for feeling having good psychological Fitness may change across time. I mean, it does mean yes completely and that in itself then therefore comes back to flexibility and you know and managing your expectations of yourself and having realistic expectations about yourself. Now yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know affects the way that you feel about yourself because again, if you you know, if you say that I should be able to spend time on my own and actually you're a point in your life, which is you're really struggling to do that. Then that that in itself becomes a point of failure sure for you 100% I mean there's there's I could touch on we probably talked about each one of these four hours. I mean the one that I mean there's another couple which I find interesting obviously sleep. I mean I'm a big believer in the importance of quality sleep on necessary quantity quality sleep. I've heard some great books Matt Walker's why we sleep Nick little hell's sleep. There's you know towards us a little bit about you know, your experience and your understanding of why sleep is such an important facet of your psychological health. I mean, there's a reason why they use sleep deprivation in tortilla. That's very welcome, sir. Starting point. Yeah, and it and anyone who has experience bouts of insomnia or anything which I have. Yeah, it literally is like torture and and there's many different aspects around why sleep is so important, you know from the fact that our brain needs to rejuvenate and rest and also at night time your brain does. Process it gives your brain the opportunity to process stuff that it's that it's gone through during the day. So even though we're asleep and its resting. It's also doing some really important stuff to help file memories correctly and stuff like that. But equally from a very kind of physiological and physical point of view, you know, when you don't have enough sleep you are not physically kind of capable of doing the things that you Need to do in your life. So for me, for example after I had my first child, I effectively as the specialist said to me I on learnt how to sleep and just as you do sleep training for a baby you've now got to relearn how to sleep. I'd become a bit to my threat system has was to alert at nighttime because I was waiting for baby who amazingly slept through really quickly and then I and I just kind of like them waiting. And so actually it you know, tiredness affects your mood, you know, and and your tolerance levels so it affects the way that you are able to kind of participate in your life during the day. So actually lack of sleep is something that can have as I say can massively affect your emotions and your emotional state and then your emotional state then starts impacting your sleep. So that's when it becomes a very Negative debilitating cycle that feeds in to feeds into each other. So recognizing the very basic the very basics of sleep hygiene is really important. But equally if you're struggling on a on a very serious level with kind of insomnia, it is something that you need to get very specific treatment on and there is a great CBT program. For example, there's evidence based. And a kind of CBT program that helps with that because it's you know, if as I say if someone is not sleeping their capabilities are reduced and you are limited and then that affects your sense of who you are and then it just Cascades does it does actually Point I've made on this podcast fours when I spoke to my psychotherapist, I was about 4 months can ask the last one and I was everything in my life was going great. It was really like business is going well. Family was well friends with great and I was just so down I could and it was and he goes to me looks me and he goes you need to remember that the feelings of exhaustion and depression are very similar. Yeah, very similar. Yeah, but simply no exhaustion is caused by a lack of quality sleep. Yeah, and if you saw that out, yeah everything opens up in front of you again. Yeah, which is with depression you kind of is a very Different process and ya think. No absolutely and it's like kind of like you said then it's about looking looking at it flexibly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah because that was not fixed so I can carry where I can come on. It's the same as it was a lovely piece of research on anxiety and they had can you know two different groups where they got them some people to tell themselves and Associate their the physical reaction. They were experiencing which they felt was anxiety and they Associated it with excitement instead so it oh I'm excited. I'm excited and it changed that's a just a different way of looking at it. But you you start interpreting your physical symptoms in a very special way and that and that's what happens with people who have panic attacks you start to feel slightly nervous and then you start going you tell yourself right? I'm going to have a panic attack. I'm going to have a panic attack. And then you do you do fascinating fascinating. So another point on here physical exercise and nutrition. I mean I talked about this in across the podcast all the time being in Health Fitness. So the next one I really want to talk about is the work and finance one, which is interesting to me and it's going to lead onto my necktie. I'm kind of interested to talk for about two to four minutes because I really want to wrap up with grit with a big finish here because it's fascinating I want to talk about About your kind of stuff you do with organizations and performance and stuff. I know it hard to do for five minutes can do I was about it. But yeah work talk about, you know, the importance of working finances as a part of your psychological Fitness. Yeah, and then suffer the way you do with organizations. Yeah, so work and fitness working Fitness work and finance. I mean, I'd Club the tube together and actually perhaps it's something for me to revisit and reflect on because sometimes I GM work doesn't So I really have to be paid work. Yeah, I think about so they probably do need to be split out work of any sort whether that's paid or unpaid has been shown to contribute hugely to our psychological well-being contribute positively to our psychological well-being because it provides us with a sense of purpose and if we don't have a reason to do the things that we're doing on a day-to-day basis or to get up in the morning, you know our motive. Motivator our drive system is not being ignited and that's really really important to our psychological health. So when we achieve something because work generally involves goals and goal setting again, which is really really important to our psychological health because once we achieve things we have a lovely dump of this hormone called dopamine it makes us feel great for makes us feel good about ourselves and then that drives us to do more or drives us to what helps us. Helps drive us to achieve more goals. So the more that we are open and this kind of slightly starts them talking about grit the more that we are open to setting bigger goals and goals that are outside of our comfort zone. The better we will feel about ourselves and the greater sense of achievement that we will have and then opening ourselves up to goals that are outside of our comfort zone then just opens ourselves up to even more challenges sure and more opportunities and more goals mostly dimensions of your mind. Yes. So it's again, it's a real growth. Yeah approach to it. So, you know as I say, it doesn't necessarily have to be paid work, but even you know, charitable charitable work or volunteering it's it's the notion of purpose and the sense of purpose that is So so important and we need a sense an element of purpose whatever that is. And again, this is completely individual doesn't have to be that you know, it doesn't have to be about earning lots of money. Yeah, of course and again feeding a bit into the grit side of things it then all becomes about how what are measures of success are so again, I'm measures of success. In a work environment might be unrealistic or might not be healthy for us. So actually focusing and being out of work through and understanding what's important to us and how we're going to measure our levels of success is really important from up from a work perspective finances on there in that, you know, it is important that people have a sense of agency. Empowerment and the reality is in life. We need money to do that. Yeah, and I don't mean a lot of money but enough money and again, this is where it comes down to how you measure success. You know, how much money do you need to be able to achieve the things that feel important to you? I think it's a point you made there, which is fascinating Tim Ferriss. You have a fabulous. Yes. So you always ask people and show you guys. What is what do you determine success as and thousands of different answers and there's a guy that came Knit one sock I could Derek severs I think and he goes that is an extremely hard question to ask because success is completely and utterly unique defining. Your meaning of success is completely unique to every individual because what I say, I think successes is relevant because everybody has different, you know has a different purpose in there that what what what what they live life or is completely different to the person next to them for If I say, you know is which I think is really really good point because success is completely different to everyone an equally your your measures of success will change over time. Yeah, and that's really important to be open to the fact that again you're on also Pilar when you were 20 you decided that you needed to be the CEO of a company you still held on to that belief you're now in your forties and you know, you're not a CEO so you feel like a failure and then you go to someone will Do you want to be a CEO do really really? Is that does that going to not really the change it? Okay. Yeah, so actually you're measuring your level of success based on something that you created when you were 21 years old brilliant. So it again being open to the notion that you know, what does success look like to you and you might get an automatic response. But then when you start on picking that and go well, you know, does that does that match your values that you have now? Yeah. Great nice. So so brilliant so brilliant injury. So talk a little bit about the work that you do with organizations because that kind of stuff really fascinates me going into a group of people probably, you know, a lot of time sure there's a mixture of growth and fixed mindsets in there. Yeah, and it kind of the work you have to do and and and how you kind of get the ball rolling to essentially increase performance within that organization. Yeah. Yeah. So there are a number or a couple of different factors. Facets and actually I do some of my work with with my brother actually because I was at work. Yeah. Well, he's still probably by my hero in life. But yeah, he's served in in the parachute regiment for 20 years. He you know got an MMC and Military cross for his leadership skills in Afghanistan. So if any One has kind of credence in relation to kind of leadership. I love to speak to him. Oh, yeah, he's a busy one for the podcast. I would definitely say so often Italy love the object know. He's a he's a he's an exceptional human being what a lovely way to speak about somebody. Yeah. I know he's amazing. So we've combined actually some one of the aspects that I do is to you know is to try to educate the Your team because actually start everything generally needs to start from the Senior Management sure because you have to get buy-in from the senior level for for stuff to trickle down and for things to be embraced because actually what you tend to find is you know, what I'm going to do. You can't see on on on podcast but you know the Millennials that everyone kind of doesn't a lot of people have a lot of bad things to say about actually from from my side. They are the people within Organizations who are really open to all of this. They're really open to learning about how to look after their minds. And actually it's the more that the senior teams that are a bit more have a bit more fixed mindset about how things need to be. So a lot of the work that I do is about trying to re-educate around the difference between mental health issues the difference with psychological Fitness and actually trying to help people and organizations recognize that they need to be focusing not just on how to how to help their staff get support for their mental health issues, but then how can they create a culture that promotes psychological Fitness and so doing workshops with the senior management teams to help them understand the impact and the benefits that that Have ya so for example, actually Google did this really cool, but of research it's called the Aristotle project and they looked at high performing teams in their organization and they wanted to find out what are the factors that that identified high-performing team members and the number one factor not wasn't Talent OR capability said it was psychological safety. safety and what we mean by that is If someone feels psychologically safe in an environment, they will take greater risks in their work environment. So if so, if a manager creates an atmosphere in their team the make someone feel psychologically safe not feel judged feel they're able to talk about their ideas and not be judged for it that will I suppose drive them to bigger goals and to achieve bigger things and therefore was the number one factor in high performing teams fast. So young a bit all over the place. So it's a bit of a combination between when I go into organizations is first of all, it's important to understand what they're already doing because a lot of organizations have had a bit of a knee-jerk response to you need to be looking after you or your staff psychological well-being. What can we do? You know, and that's yeah and you know, as I said, there's been a lot of Mental Health First Aid training, but that that kind of sits in the field. Of mental ill health. It's about trying to help organizations create a more accessible route. And for me psychological Fitness is a much more. What's the word? I'm looking for acceptable thing to talk about then mental health. She died people to get the backside diamonds when they him enter the yeah. Yeah been bit of a stigma. Yeah that psychological Fitness sounds yeah, very isn't it's more motivating. Is much more and it's not just to be used as a let's just try and squeeze people into that and then we can open them up into you know, if they need mental help, you know mental mental health treatment because there's an absolute valid need for this prevention work. But it does Also Serve I think to just make psychological well-being that whole Continuum more accessible. So the work work that we do companies, you know will will depend upon their needs. It might be there would be one to one, you know coaching that's required workshops, which the whole you would kind of start with the senior management teams to get their buy-in and understanding and then it's about ensuring that all staff members have this level of understanding have this level of education and I have these accessible tools and strategies. Jeez, that's so easy to use day in day out that it becomes as or you know, in an Ideal World, you know becomes as automatic as oh how many steps have I done today? Sure. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. So so yes that I didn't wear that gives enough. Yeah, it does. Absolutely I'm awake just like okay where can people find more information on your company and I mean, do you have Instagram or maybe to call out your website just calls to action for them just in case the amount of people that that I've come on the show and people have been fascinated with their work and then they contact them. I think it would definitely be worth while yeah wanted so much. My website is mindflex group.com. I am I have been very terrible in the social social media world and now coming back after two bouts of maternity leave. My Instagram will start now becoming more active but I am the mindflex doctor on Instagram, but It's looking very sparse at the first night. I mean, I would I would absolutely love to see one of those workshops at some point. So hopefully one day yeah got big enough company. Now, I want to talk about he told me not to slap the taste out. I want to talk a bit about Sisterhood The Sisterhood. Sorry, I should say we've had em a sale on here previously users is a founding member it she knows his arm. Matriarch serious serious character she is a fascinating individual and and killing Christians is you know, that was one of the best episodes I've done. I loved every second of it. I would love to know a little bit about the sister what it is and then we'll talk a little bit about grit in relation to its assisted because I don't know if you I'd be probably won't know but I kind of when I was reading through all The Sisterhood is I kind of saw in something similar on a very smaller scale. I started I'm called the Trail Blazers Club a couple of years ago and where we kind of wanted to do something crazy. Easy to get to ourselves. Yeah, but raise money for a charity. Yes, and in the process groomer my crew my my dimensions of well, that's when I did the ultimate and yeah, so when I saw it, I was like I get this yeah, not this I just love this. I love this. Oh, yeah, please just far away and tell us it's all about it and what you've done recently which is Mega and what you've done previously as well. Yeah and what you're going on today? Yes. So yeah The Sisterhood sounds I always kind of say sounds a bit bra burning but it really is. He actually really isn't at all and I wasn't a founding member so Emma can slap me if I get this slightly wrong, but many years back 10 years ago. I think over several glasses of wine in the pub someone. Yeah a group of blokes that Emma knew said they were going to Dragon Boat across the channel and so am I being Emma went are we going to do that? And we're going to be And this and that's just for The Sisterhood was literally formed. So the first thing that The Sisterhood did was dragon boats across the channel and then and then it you know, it existed very much as being a group of girls in London and what I've always loved about it of like such a variety of Ages. It really is just a very Clinton a huge eclectic mix of people. All who have one thing in common that is just kind of do loaded challenges and have a bit of fun and raise money as much as we can. So we had a Dragon Boat that was moored in Barns and every Monday night. We would do a bit of paddling training in inverted commas a good little gas up the river and have a drink in the pub. And and and so we would we have done a number of different paddle boat Dragon Boat Races. Oh the Great River Race we've done several times, which is from Tower know beyond tower bridge. Where is it? Anyway, it's a really long way but enzyme Richmond as a really hard hard race for hours of just non-stop handling, you know to doing more fun races and I always say this wrong it's called something like the Volga longer in Venice. So which the girls I'm not doing it this year. The the girls are doing it. This year again, which is non motorized boats paddling around Venice. Basically, we've done the Bosphorus. I've done the boss for a swim twice. They've done which I again I didn't do so, I only got involved for about six years ago. They're done a Big Raft race in Amazon on the Amazon and then and then constantly just doing running race. Is and other swimming challenges and just whatever little challenges so it's a kind of a combination. It's not always massive different charities every time you know every time but tends to be on a yearly basis it shall mix Emma would side to kind of mix it up a bit just donated to the new was in the pool Foundation. Yes, so that was the charity one of the Charities for the recent Challenge and this has been our first big challenge for quite a while so Emma. The the founding member has just got through having her third child. And so there are obviously other priorities have kind of taken over a little bit over the last few years to a certain degree. Although she's never never stop doing it and it's felt time to reclaim the ability to do this stuff again, and so we've just done the speed project which was Real a running race from LA to Vegas. So we took two teams out and we had four of the massive RV things between the two teams and it was just literally a relay race. So tapping the next person runs and tapping the next person and then we it was non-stop 48 hours. So adorable. It was amazing really it was amazing. I mean it's was kind of utterly crazy and again those setting come and kind of bringing the grit in at this point, you know, we wanted to achieve that in 48 hours and we knew that it was a massive feat for us because you know, we're not professional runners or not. You know, we're really not professional runners. There are some Runners that are faster than others. We did a mixed team this time which we have on several stuff so that we've got The Sisterhood which are the girls and then Have the sister would with the boys. So we had I had really heard and would on this so we had some you know, amazing guys and some just still serving and some some injured military ex-military guys who were incredible and you know, we set ourselves a big challenge everyone threw themselves into it, you know, the even talk about grip which is all about passion you need passion and perseverance. There's just all this passion that is just created you create you build your grit when you are surrounded by gritty people as well. And this is a hugely gritty group of people and that kind of breeds it to a certain degree under percent and you know, you've, you know, the competitive element we want it to be competitive, but you just didn't actually kind of takes over and you know, and we ended up completing it in 47 hours and 56 minutes. So we were four minutes. Off and I cannot tell you the last group of you have actually got goosebumps. The last group of the the people that almost selected in our team to run the last bit which was we've got try and go we've got to do this ran their socks off. I mean, they Jeff edible. It was so incredible and that sense of achievement, you know again, so when you so, you know, we have become potentially, you know less gritty in that That we keep ourselves in our comfort zone a bit more and I have to admit I you know, I'd had two children and there was this challenge came up and I there was a part of me that was like that stuff for me anymore. I don't really know because I used to all the time and then I've done this. I'm like I've reconnected back with why it's so important to do these things and to set ourselves challenges that are outside of our comfort zone because it's very easy to just set ourselves goals that we know that we can do and achieve When you achieve something that you're really not quite sure as possible. It's absolutely awesome when you achieve when you achieve it, I mean it was a lot a little bit weird for me because I was meant to be the cycle support supporting the runners on bike and we bought really cheap terrible bikes when we got over to America and it was all a bit of a waste of time. So I ended up doing some I ended up running right which was great and And I just I mean the experience of running underneath the Stars, you know on your own with through Death Valley and it's just one of those things that yeah absolutely amazing so that and that Collective the collectiveness about at all. You know, we've got the you know, what's that growth? Everyone's still messaging it's almost like that vague kind of come down thing, but what it does and I always associate help for Heroes with the when we used to run all these amazing events and Veterans you Participate in things that they found so, you know used to affect their psychological well-being really well, but it can't be just about these one-off events, you know, they are really important. But equally I've taken a learning from from that which is you know, I moved out of London for five years ago and to still be connected to this stuff is really really important to me. So I it's really important that I don't go I live out in Hartford cheers amazing impact your Social Circle can Oh, it's huge. It's huge and it's like we mentioned throughout this mean in terms of grits. I mean that if there has been lucky when I was at school, like I think that may have been the age of when everyone starts to really monitor muddy mollycoddle. Yeah. And yeah and you kind of get that. Oh, yeah. Well, everyone's got a getting an award. Yeah, you know, which kind of takes away the the kind of drive to go out and really put effort in like like Britt is perseverance. It's a project. Yeah to get that sense of achievement. Yeah, so it's just funny is you know something like The Sisterhood is just a great environment to be able to do that. But it I feel like it certain caliber of person drives those things. No, absolutely and I mean Emma sale, I've never met anybody else like a really good and she is so, you know, we've got some training at the moment for the channel. We're doing a relay Channel swim in June. So there's six of us six The Sisterhood girls with yeah we're doing In June and then training for the moment. Yes. How's it going? Yes, it's going. I'm more worried about the because we do one hour stints because it's a really it's a really that we're doing again, and we've got do a to our qualifier in a few weeks, which is in water. That's 16 degrees and or less and I'm think I'm more worried about that than I am the actual thing. But so we've got that coming up which is great. And actually we're doing that for the children sick. Charity charity and that is off the back of had has had an ongoing kind of tough time with her youngest in and out of guys hospital. So so the next thing is September we're doing it's the urban challenge or something and it's running and spinning and then climbing up the tower the ever Evelina Tower at guys and then I think they're doing that they are doing the Volga longer again and then Next year Emma is talking about potentially doing a run somewhere that results in 400 miles and ending up in Nashville because she really likes country music and she just interact with you. Yeah she offered. Okay. Well that kind of leads me on to I mean my kind of rounding up questions first. I really this has been completely and utterly fascinating. I've really loved every second I think the value of these Besides is really important to have out there for people to listen to you. So I really do appreciate it firstly who's been your biggest inspiration. It's a tough question to ask there's been several. Yeah, there's been several this slightly off the cuff, but now you mentioned the only pain yeah, like question and it's funny. Really. I think I have just I have different people that influence me in different different. Areas, I already did mention that my brother and I did actually do mean that really seriously and that he is a he's always has been and continues to be a massive inspiration sure to me the way that he approaches approaches everything that he does with grit and determination and just loads of vibrancy in life. I mean, I do actually find them on sale and I'm sure you'll laugh when I when she hears this but she she has achieved success against the odds and I think that's awesome where someone just keeps going and keeps going against what everything everything that everybody was saying to her. She she kept going in terms of famous. People don't have to be famous that know. I really I really struggled to say that I necessarily find Fake people inspiring there are certain people that I tend to find people certain people within my field really inspiring in terms of what they've done. There's a guy that I I work have a worked alongside with for several years is about a guy called Professor Neil Greenberg who is just an just such a knowledgeable fascinating amazing is called Professor Neil Greenberg and he is an absolute expert in the military mental health world and he was someone who in my thesis I quoted over and over in terms of all of his research and then one day all of a sudden I was standing in front of him and I was like, oh my God, I need to say something intelligent. And actually he's the nicest guy and came to my wedding and he's hungry right now, but he He him and he would take to hear me say this but it's one of the things which is a huge in that and Emma and I have talked a lot about this that's really important. It is something around something called imposter syndrome. Yeah, and I've experienced a lot of imposter syndrome throughout my life. And I think you know and I've kind of committed to myself that this is the time to start getting over that but being around big academics who I find amazingly Spiring inspire me, but also give me imposter syndrome that I shouldn't be doing this because they're this much but again, then it comes down back down to how you reframe your your measures of success. Now. I'm never going to be a professor but there's a lot of other things that I can bring to this. I mean imposter syndrome every time I interview someone on this show so I can enjoy an imposter syndrome podcast then for sure. Yeah. Okay. Lastly, I don't know basic I saw this. Cost off of the back of going through mental health difficulty in myself and my early 20s, which I think is an extremely tough time for a lot of people because they kind of not sure on the direction they should be going in and like you said, there's so much Choice out there. So yeah, I mean, I was definitely one of those people that pick those things up and drop them because I didn't get success straightaway. Yeah, so I was slightly fixed mindset in that in that kind of aspect. But basically I ask somebody, you know one kind of Life Lesson they but not advice. I think I vices are slight kind of slightly dangerous but life lesson you've learned that you could pass on somebody. In that position in their early 20s or 30s that kind of just looking for a bit of a bit of a direction bit of yeah guidance almost on how to kind of approach life from after hearing. This episode will be I think, you know, we've talked a lot about being flexible and open to change and just being able to recognize that taking a step back and looking in on things and seeing whether different ways of thinking and doing things as possible but one of the things which is a really important thing to try and embrace and I remember somebody saying to this to me after I had my first child which was a very anxiety-provoking time. Is there any first mother but I still love this that they said just remember that everything is a phase and everything moves on to the next phase. So I think when you're in your twenties, it's such a hard time because you know you generally You've been to school you've done this you've done that and then all of a sudden you're meant to be a grown-up adult. Yeah, I understand and you know, you are too you end up with quite high expectations of yourself. I think the flex but I'm struggling here to give you one be flexible with your expectations of yourself be realistic with the expectations of yourself, but more than anything just try and embrace the fact that everything is a phase and This this phase is going to move on to the next one. And if now doesn't feel things don't feel right now. Just keep going because I kept going until I was in my little I was 30 and then things started to make sense. I think I think things do make more sense in your 30s. And I just know it just you know, that that notion again that I suppose that that embracing grit but also embarrassing and The courage to be vulnerable at the same time. You have to talk out. You have to speak to your friends and your family around you use the support network that you have. It's not it's not weak to say you don't know where you're going or you don't know what you're doing or you want something different and you don't know what that is, you know, just keep seeking because it will emerge it will and it's just a phase and it and that and I don't mean that in terms of turdy. The value I was just a phase that I know that can sign up but it is life comes in phases and you will move if you do stuff that keeps momentum going you just got to keep moving because you will move into the next phase. I love it. I've asked that question so many times. I've never got the same one really. Well, that's good. That's good. Once again, I want to say thank you so much. That was extremely insightful for me. I know inside for everybody else. I really do appreciate that. I've loved every second for having me no more. Thank you so much.
The continuum of ‘Psychology Wellbeing’ spoken about with Dr Vanessa Moulton is a conversation that has changed my thinking around mental health. Why should we simply just focus on the mental ill health end of the spectrum? We should also be focusing on all the areas of our psychological fitness at the top end of the spectrum and how we can optimise our mind at all time. You don’t stop at the gym when your body is getting into good knick? Think about that. Vanessa is a psychologist that has worked in some incredible environments. Being heavily involved with help for Heroes being just one of them. The work she does with organisations, groups of people and on a one on one basis is amazing! Check out some of the things we spoke about!! * Vanessa’s professional background that lead her from a career in marketing to working with war veterans. * ‘Psychological Fitness’, or should I say ‘Psychological Wellbeing’ what this means and how this area has grown in the public eye in the last 20 years? * The continuum of ‘Psychological Wellbeing’ - Psychological Fitness / Psychological Ill Health. * Flexibility of thought and action. The power that can be created when you unleash the fact that there is always another way. There is no one size fits all. * How to make people realise that their self made ‘rules’ may NOT be working for them anymore. * How flexibility of thought and action can help you be on the RIGHT end of the Psychological well being spectrum. * Other psychological fitness factors. * Downtime - why it is SO important, what it is and how it is subjective to the individual. * Finding balance across the psychological fitness factors and how it takes a years to form the right formula for you? * Sleep - why it is just everything to us! * Work and purpose - how when we achieve in these areas we open ourselves up to more opportunity and achievements. * Success - How the definition of success can change. Just because you sat yourself a specific idea of success when you are 20 DOESN’T mean that should always be your idea of success. * Vanessa talks about one her heroes - He may be coming on the show soon too!! * How Millennials are more open minded and how senior executives tend to be more fixed. Vanessa talks about the work she does with organisations in order to make them more conscious of psychology in the workplace. It is a huge performance indicator in the workplace. * Vanessa talks to us about ‘The Sisterhood’ - when it started, what it means and what they have done. * GRIT - Passion and perseverance. How and why it is so important to keep growing and setting yourself challenges. (1 hour 11 minutes). * Who Vanessa’s biggest influences are. One of which has been on the show,  Emma Sayle CEO of Killing Kittens. * A few life lessons that Vanessa has learnt. The 30’s is when it all becomes clearer - BE PATIENT! 