This is the lightning junkies podcast. I'm your host Chaz crypto set on this episode of the podcast. We have Will Reeves from fold and lightning Network Pizza both fold and lightning Network Pizza are platforms that allow you to spend your Bitcoin as well as earn Bitcoins. And back for those purchases we end up discussing privacy Bitcoin the lightning Network Occupy Wall Street amongst other subjects. This is the second episode of the podcast and I thought I did a lot better. I was able to be a little bit more free form and not focus so much on the notes that I was looking at at didn't even write out questions beforehand. I just had General topics laid out. I didn't mention in the previous podcasts about The first second and third episodes are a part of series dealing with onboarding newbies to the lightning Network and the platforms that help to make that happen as mentioned on the previous podcast. I have no sponsors. The only time I get any money for this podcast as whenever someone chips in via my BTC pay server or something like tipping dot me this is done by Design. I don't like listening to podcasts that have a 10 minute long. Ang sponsorship corner and I hope to keep it that way not to say that it's impossible for me to take a sponsor in the future, but they would have to be of the highest possible caliber and I they would have to accept the fact that I'm not going to sugarcoat how I talk about them. If you get anything out of this podcast, please consider chipping in some Bitcoin via the lightning Network on chain or even chip in some dirty Fiat. You can do this via the links in the show notes. Without further Ado here is the second episode of the lightning junkies podcast. How are you doing today? Will I'm doing great Chaz and I'm happy to be here fantastic before we jump into the kind of Bitcoin portion. You know, what's your general background? I've been a kind of founder and entrepreneur building kind of products and in primarily in payments and peer-to-peer Tech space for the last 10 years or so that has mainly we been on the kind of consumer side of things spend some time building the Google Store building peer-to-peer Marketplace has new payment platforms for merchants to use and all of that really is kind of now in service of where I find myself today fantastic. Was there anything and that experience that kind of really stood out as something that you really enjoyed that you really kind of set you up for where you are now? Yeah. I mean I like working on Complex problems with well at the same time working on kind of newer technologies that can promise answers to those those problems and so my experience working in payments and kind of point of sale retail environments, you know, taught me quite a bit about the rapid change in in payments, but also the really clear limitations that we currently face with kind of everyday consumer. our consumer payments and so really it leaves a lot to be desired and and I think a lot of what we're doing at fold is kind of filling in those gaps kind of creating kind of from the ground up a new way to Envision kind of kind of everyday retail and everyday Commerce and then on the peer-to-peer side, you know built things like peer to peer marketplaces where people exchange meet and exchange goods and which involves a lot of issues around Building trust as well as creating kind of experiences that on board people through a full process that may involve a lot of money or valuable goods and you know use technology to make sure that the outcome is enjoyable and kind of solves real needs for them. Got it. How would you say that Bitcoin fit into all that? Was it a kind of natural progression? How'd you get into Bitcoin? Basically, see, how do I get into pixel Bitcoin? I Ali kind of look back I had three initial encounters with Bitcoin before I ever kind of really dedicated myself to you know, working on a full-time, but even you know really diving deep in the rabbit hole first experience was you know, I grew up in Northern California in Wine Country. My first experience of Bitcoin was watching a group of people teaching migrant Farm Workers how to use Bitcoin for as an alternative for remittances. This is back in 2012 or so second encounter with Bitcoin was in Argentina where I was living and that coincided with one of the their defaults their economy defaults and I made some friends and some security and software Engineers some of whom were into Bitcoin and actually used it very early on as a safe-haven asset to kind of get around the devaluation that was affecting the rest of the the country and so it was pretty clear and Powerful example of the one aspect of what Bitcoin can bring to an economy. And the last one was during Occupy Wall Street in Oakland where we took in donations with Bitcoin paid out vendors and Bitcoin and managed kind of volunteers and this way so another one showing the you know, the Unstoppable payments thesis. And so I think all three of those examples kind of come together show slightly different Spective on what Bitcoin can do and be for different people in different circumstances and really those those founding examples for me. I've kind of driven, you know, what we do at fault and that's really building infrastructure that make realizing Bitcoin as a superior payments and savings technology and making that available and accessible to the the rest of the world. Okay, that makes a lot of sense talking about Occupy Wall Street. They're a little bit. You know, what do you kind of see? Bitcoin as being a kind of currency of rebellion or you know, would you kind of see it may be kind of end up being something a little bit less rebellious over time. What's your take on that? I think to to imagine the you know, the this this work this hyper Bitcoin ization this this the a kind of Bitcoin future. I think it necessitates having both of those realities coexist. I do think that It at the fundamental basis of it if we keep Bitcoin as we as we envision it today, it would accommodate both institutional use cases of Bitcoin as a sound auditable infrastructure in which to base our kind of financial technology and economy on I think it will absolutely happen. But I also think just the very nature of it as long as we can push back on kind of total kyc and push back on. On D and optimization of Bitcoin units users. I think it will also always be a tool of rebellion Liberation. You know, what have you so I think if this all works out and the way that I am envisioning both use cases will be very comfortably supported. Do you see the kind of kyc future cannot, you know taking over or do you see it as being kind of more of a balance like you said because you know, we've seen you know shape-shift local. Coins, you know go kyc. Do you see that kind of continuing? Yeah, so and the short-term I absolutely do. I think we're going to see I think two areas are going to be an increase in kyc needs as well as that. It's going to be related to kind of increasing regulatory scrutiny that's going to bring on, you know new needs for licenses and compliance. I definitely see that as something that's going to happen the short term but over the long term. I see generally kyc becoming more of a liability for private companies then something that keeps their customers of themselves safe and by that, I mean as we increasingly connect collect and centralize some of the most essential and key pieces of private and personal data across these kind of centralized private organizations that increasingly puts all in a more vulnerable state and I can see a future where the benefits of kyc are become outweighed by the negative aspects of holding that data being responsible for that data. And I think that will necessitate some major changes that may kind of push back against the tide of you know in the short term, you know increasing needs for kyc. I'm I really believe that where we're going with data and general. Is that you know Jeremy Welch from Casa put out this great piece that you know data is not no longer the new oil. It's the new kind of sludge if you will. So I think more and more organizations are going to feel the the responsibility and the weight of holding such powerful and personal data for so many users. Definitely. I think I would agree with that. I want to move on to some lightning questions so I kind of asked Haddock, how you got into Bitcoin. When did you first start using lightning yourself? Yeah. I mean we were so at fold, you know, we have our primary product and primary kind of use cases payments. We very quickly realized that on chain layer one payments was not going to be the way to bring, you know, Bitcoin payments to the rest of the world just wasn't scalable is too expensive and there's two common too complicated and so we knew very early on that. At a layer to solution would be required. We did not go down the big block path. We felt the kind of core was moving in the right direction on securing the base chain and that payments and other applications would be realized on layer 2 Solutions. And so we are pretty bullish on Lightning early on and we were experimenting you know as pretty much as early as it came online and you know, we are making small lightning payments. Pretty early on with any of the kind of early laps or or lightning enabled apps and it really took us about a kind of you know, six months of tinkering before we actually started to put anything in real production in to fold and lightning Pizza. All right. So talking about fold. How did you start at fold? I know fold is an older company almost, you know, they've made a more of a recent comeback. How did you start up fold fold was initially founded by Matt LeBlanc go back in 2014 and Matt and I had actually worked together on a few other projects outside of the crypto world. And so we knew we wanted to work together. Matt had been working on unfold but as I told you the kind of problems that we saw we saw some great volume coming through but then the fee Market started to come, you know, $50 fees on $5 coffees don't quite make sense. And so Matt and I decided to come together once we All that the lightning Solutions were coming online where viable we had done some experimentation. And so I officially came to take over fold about a year and a half ago to kind of reorient the company to kind of start directly tackling lightning but also broadening the kind of vision of what we wanted to do with full Beyond simply retail payments. Okay, where did lightning Network pizza come from so we knew we wanted to get get into the center of the lightning community and the in pretty much in the middle of the action. And so we've been experimenting with lightning making payments or cells running our own notes trying to break as much as we could on our end. And once we felt like we had had enough information we knew we wanted to launch an experiment that kind of would do a couple things. Number one. It would have far reach and reach a lot of people provide a real use case that people would make Will actually want to use lightning and have a reason to adopt lightning or a lightning wallet. And then thirdly we wanted it to be a real world kind of use case something that was not just a you know, something digital to unlock but the inner faced with multiple different organizations or parties. And so this we quickly landed on Lightning Pizza partly because we knew the power of the Bitcoin and pizza meme and we thought it was really appropriate to revive that. with the kind of growth of lightning network and to kind of be a good symbol of where lightning is and so we developed lightning Pizza basically plugging into the dominoes POS system creating our own ordering interface and allowing people to by Domino's delivery or carry out with a kind of 5, you know, sometimes 10% discount depending on the day and we wanted to launch that to get as much activity as possible to pretty much accelerate our Learning's on how the lighting network works and how to work with it best. Do you think that the discount was a important piece to the entire thing? So I think the discount was important. However, I think you'll see we don't really promote the discount as the pride as a primary thing on Lightning Pizza you can you can see it has a little banner up top, but pretty much it's not you know the in your face, you know, this is the reason to use lightning pizza. That's partly because we wanted to see What the utmost organic uptake would be with, you know, lightning users. Just you know, how many people are out there looking to spend and so while I think it definitely plays a piece and it definitely helps people justify even spending their SATs. I don't think it is. It is only it. I think it's a really strong value proposition. The second value proposition is that we've noticed Domino's is a publicly traded company. So we also get to see average order value is of dominoes frequencies of ordering from users. And things like that and almost all of those metrics lightning Pizza excels Beyond them and part of that is because we believe that once you're set up with a lightning wallet the actual transaction and check out itself is extremely simple compared to even a credit card transaction on Domino's own website. It's much faster. It's simpler. It's safer and on the top you do get a good, you know a good discount to justify the spend, but we Didn't want to give too much of a discount just enough to kind of lower the barrier to entry in terms of spending your Bitcoin but more we wanted to test can lightning create a better retail or checkout payment method then what's currently available and I think we have really great reason to believe that while it's early. It definitely can be okay my personal little essay that I've been writing on my blog here has been around the idea of trying to LeapFrog newbies directly into Lightning, you know jumping over the base chain of Bitcoin and getting them straight into lightning. Do you think there's anything to that or do you think it makes more sense to get people acclimatized to bitcoin first and then get them into lightning later. I am absolutely in agreement with you. I think it's really interesting to see some of the new white lightning wallets out there like lightning Labs own wallet Breeze wallet that actually do just that it completely kind of subverts the and so you basically it feels like you're going being on board and directly into lightning as opposed to having a base chain on chain wallet and then moving into lightning and I think this is very much the way to go both in terms of fees in terms of speed and usability for users. It's kind of closer to what they would expect and so we at fold are looking for ways to cleverly do this and I think you see how we offer Kickbacks or rewards on on purchases through fold and soon-to-be through lightning Pizza that Bitcoin cashback is going to be withdrawn directly into a lightning Channel ready for you to use to essentially on board people directly into lightning. So I think absolutely agree with you on that II really like the the Kickbacks program myself. We'll come back to that here in a moment. I wanted to ask first, you know about light. meaning have you experienced any issues or anything that kind of you know, held you back, you know any like errors and you know big upsets that took a long time to figure out, you know, a lot of it has been a learning experience and the thing that makes you know some some of this could be difficult, but I think lightning has one of the most the most robust and tight-knit communities across the crypto ecosystem and that makes Us as fold our job much easier because we are directly connected with nearly all of the major lightning Services operating on Lightning building on lightning and that means information gets passed around very quickly. We get to see issues before they arise we get to have warning on things and with that layer of community. We feel much more comfortable developing and developing faster. so, you know, I think it's it was good this last week you saw that vulnerability that came out in the 7.0 version of of lightning and a couple implementations and I think while it's concerning, I think it's pretty incredible that that it's been that this rare after this long and I think it's a good reminder that you know, we are not out of the kind of Reckless phase of lightning, but we're pretty damn close and so, you know, We have definitely experienced, you know headaches with Channel management and balancing and the user experience of the whole thing. But those I'm confident that this community is going to solve very quickly and even the larger vulnerabilities, you know, it seemed to be work out. Okay for everyone at least for this go-round. Okay. I just wanted to maybe give a bit more detail on fold itself. What? Is fold and what is you know the prime use case for it here? Just so you're everyone listening has an idea fold aims to make Bitcoin more accessible and rewarding for mainstream consumers and what that means is that we bring the fundamental benefits of Bitcoin as both a Payments Technology and a savings technology to the Forefront and allow people to experience it in their everyday lives. And so what does that mean? So on the payment side we Unfold lightning payments at retailers and soon-to-be credit and debit card payments that retailers that essentially allow you to keep all your payments private. So you never give up any of your transaction details payment information or any other or any other kind of your browsing data, you keep all of that safe and private when you pay through full and a lot of that is enabled through lightning transactions. And so we think that Bitcoin is As a payment method offers a level of privacy speed and finality that is going to be very rewarding for users down in the long term. It's we're building kind of infrastructure to support that as an everyday retail purchases. I was just going to go into the Privacy portion a little bit more here. Do you think that there is a big advantage to lightning over base the base chain of Bitcoin as far as payments go. Absolutely. I think lightning right now is our best chance and Technology for realizing the true benefits of Bitcoin as a payment as a payment method for kind of everyday transactions and those benefits will quickly be realized by both consumers and retailers. So on the consumer side the speed of transactions the cost of the transactions as well as the Privacy preserving nature of spending is provides an incredible experience when you match that against, you know, even paying with a credit card, you know, when you go through a lightning transaction, it's faster and it is safer than paying with your credit card on almost any e-commerce site and fold enables you to do that on the merchant side lightning provides finality in ways that no other payment method does today the possibility of a merchant finalizing daily payments or payments on an hourly basis opens up entirely new use cases and paradigms for for merchants. Smaller and midsize merchants and that will allow Merchants to have some efficiencies to then pay back to consumers in terms of incentives and rewards and so we're very bullish on the fact of Bitcoin being a superior payment method in the long run but it is also extremely related to why we also work on bitcoin as a savings technology and how we get Bitcoin into the hands of his most as many people as possible as fast as possible. Okay, you mentioned before about the kickback. Graham you want to tell me a little more about that? Yeah, so fold works with Merchants by directly integrating with their prepaid access programs. So this is essentially store credit at retailers or gift cards at retailers. There's a few different names for prepaid access programs depending on where you are and so fold accepts payment and then and then produces a a code in which you use at that Merchants essentially. It's like a burner code or a Burner payment that you use one time and because we go through prepaid programs Merchants have lower processing fees and they have reduced charge backs and we're bringing them new customers. And so our Retail Partners negotiate with us a discount that then we pass on to the to our users as rewards via our Kickbacks program. So on average our Merchants give back around 5% However, the it can go up to 20% Which you see with Burger King. I believe in a couple other brands that you'll see today. And those are all paid out instantly in the form of Bitcoin. I really like that Kickbacks program something that I wanted to ask related to that is there's several other services in the space that are doing something similar like Casa has their SATs back program Etc. Do you think that is going to be increasingly more popular but thing to do to ought to on People by giving them Bitcoin for purchases. They might ordinarily make I think it is an absolutely necessary part and effective strategy for growing the network and growing users how I look at rewards is that it will be a key part of every crypto company's strategy as well as incumbent or traditional company strategy to get into crypto and so my core belief is that and rewards are incredibly important but you need to be building value Beyond rewards because at the end of the day, you know, there are incumbents that offer rewards for purchasing at retailers and they can switch on bitcoin payments, you know with pretty much with the flip of a switch and so it's our core belief that fold that rewards are a an incredible incentive to lower the barrier of Entry or kind of cost calculation for someone to use your service and it's Really necessary to get a large group of people to do that. However, you need to also be building infrastructure, whether through payments or savings products to then take advantage of those incentives to create a true kind of business around it. And so for us we think it will be ubiquitous rewards and that's a great thing because that means more people have Bitcoin but in terms of from a business perspective we I feel it's the rewards are just the tip of the iceberg. And really the most value is going to be found in the kind of larger payment stack that we're building out. Okay a question that I have kind of had been having a hard time dealing with on my end is the idea of tax implications for spending Bitcoin. Do you have any particular opinion on that or you know what people should be doing or anything like that? Yeah. So to be honest it coins Quinn Center has a bill out on I believe it's called the de minimis clause which allows any transaction under 500 or $600 to go untaxed and treated similarly as many other assets are and frankly that would be in a game changer for the Bitcoin payments. Currently. The tax situation is definitely one of the largest barriers to entry and usage that we see currently and if solved would have huge consequences. Sequences for both payment Bitcoin payments and I think Bitcoin overall now there are a few things that we can do in the short term that we are helping users with is that we are partnering with tax companies to help you with the tax and taxing and Reporting issues help you better report that so it takes a lot less time and I think you'll realize now is that, you know, when I first was doing tax reporting on bitcoin payments, you know years ago that would take several hours. Now it you know could take an hour or two maximum and so we are improving but it's still by no means something that we should expect, you know mainstream consumers to do by any means and so really right now I think we need to do work on both sides of this number one is advocating for the change of classification and taxation of Bitcoin as an asset class, which is being done by a lot of great great companies. I think more people need to get involved with that. I would suggest everyone reach out to coin Center on how they can help out with that process or even just donate to them. The second is creating tools and services right now that make it easier and lessen the burden on people in the here and now and that is both faster ways to have Fiat to current to bitcoin conversion so that people can purchase Bitcoin on the spot or different payments and purchases as well as helping with the reporting aspect. I think both of those Need to be worked on to to help with the taxation issue as regards to payments. Yeah, I've definitely seen people on Twitter that were very hesitant to actually make payments either with Bitcoin or was lightning just because of the tax, you know burden or implications. Do you think the overall pros of you know, making payments with Bitcoin or lightning, you know discounts or what? Have you kind of outweigh those potential burdens, you know big Coin is a global technology and with almost every answer I have with it. It's it depends on your situation where you are, you know for people in many different countries, you know, Bitcoin is not taxed like it is here in the United States. And so it very much does make sense for them to use it as a Payments Technology, especially when paired with the great lightning speed and cost with great user experience and those case I think it absolutely makes sense. Now when you're talking about in the United States, one of the important things about our Kickbacks program is to give you an incentive to to actually to take on some of the tax work because you're getting over all you're getting more Kickbacks and you would pretty much from any other source possible. And so for some I believe it does make sense and others. We are working on solutions for you. So that it does it's kind of our our Our primary goal. Okay, so you can I mention before that you were looking into or you know, possibly just about to launch debit and credit cards on fold now to like a Bitcoin or that sounds like we're going backwards here. You know, what's what's your idea behind that? So I think everyone knows fold as a, you know, kind of Hardcore Bitcoin or products, you know, we've only supported Bitcoin ever. We've been one of the earliest services on Both in of Unchained payments as well as Lightning payments and we have developed kind of a lot of our value proposition our vision. Our principles are directly from the Bitcoin Community, but we know and I think all bitcoiners know is that in order to grow this system. We need to increase adoption and that's going to either be adoption through more volume running through the system or more users running through the system and ideally it's Both of them. And so we see that lowering the barrier to entry into Bitcoin having it not be simply dominated by kyc walled, speculative use cases fold season very clear opportunity to allow any person in the US and very soon internationally to sink their credit card and debit card and earn Bitcoin whether their shopping online offline in app wherever they are. Fold will start accumulating Bitcoin on their behalf. And as people start to accumulate that Bitcoin and see the value of it, they're able to use it on a future purchase with fold or they can simply accumulate and hold it and with us we encourage people to spend it by offering even more percent Back Rewards if you choose to then spend Bitcoin and so our whole thing is creating a funnel that reaches The most uneducated non, you know pre coiner that you can imagine giving them a easy way to on board into the space and then have our product slowly be able to incentivize them to come deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole. Okay. Got it. I just want to change things up here slightly if I understand it fold is owned by a company called thesis is this right so fold is actively being at fold was incubated with in thesis, which is a venture Production Studio that works on various kind of prototype protocols and products related to kind of Bitcoin and kind of generally blockchain technology fold was incubated with in thesis. However, will soon be announcing our spin out from thesis as a kind of a separate entity with a whole new set of partners that will be joining us for our kind of next upcoming Milestones interesting. You know, I just Ask about thesis really fast here one one other product that I saw that they're working on over. There is something called TBT see do you have any opinion about that kind of being Loosely connected or very connected to the thesis? Yeah, absolutely. So the other one of the other verticals at thesis is keep keep Network and they have developed something called TBT see which this is essentially a allowing interoperability between ethereum and Bitcoin block chains to essentially give Bitcoin the defy qualities that you may find with ethereum projects and to give aetherium the liquidity that is associated with Bitcoin projects. And so I think overall it is an intern very interesting project and I'm very excited to see where this takes interoperability in general. I think it overall It has some great implicit implications for both communities and there are reasons for both camps to be very really excited about this and I also can't imagine a better team than then keep and Suma working on this project both projects with some, you know, hardcore bitcoiners that also understand how kind of defy works and kind of vision there. So I'm very interested to see how they're going to bring this together. All right, great fine. Finally, I just kind of wanted to go more broad here and just go to a you know, where do you see Bitcoin kind of ending up in the next, you know, maybe decade do we do we turn it more into a digital gold thing or you know as fold and you know that whole cut, you know, the company kind of pushes more towards payments. Do you think will actually be doing more payments will be a will that be all be on bitcoin. Will they all be on Lightning? Well, they'll be a mix, you know, will the fees be crazy excetera. You know, how do you see things running out? Man nearly ever nearly every prediction like this is is always interesting to make however, I think we're going to get both. I think the debates between Bitcoin being a a kind of store of value will come to fruition as we see the kind of macro Market start to position Bitcoin as more and more of a an attractive asset and as more and more countries start to take dances on it. It's going to it's going to really do a lot for Bitcoin as a kind of international savings and kind of Safe Haven asset that I think will continue to develop especially in these zero two Sub Zero interest times. I am less concerned about that piece because I think right now even where Bitcoin is at and its technology is pretty Advanced and well suited to fit that very use case right now, and I think Will only continue to grow stronger. I think the parts that Bitcoin in the community are working on now and we're why you see so much energy around lightning network is because that is the piece of the technology that is that has not been been has not matched up to the user experience and capabilities that we needed to become to be a medium of exchange or payment method. And so I think as Lightning continues to mature it is going to take more and more of the overall. Movement of Bitcoin payments less will happen on chain more will happen off chain on lightning lightning. We are going to see it taken up more and more as a payment method around the world. We're already seeing countries change their laws around taxation of Bitcoin payments, and I don't expect all countries to come out favorably in this but I expect enough to where there will always be enough activity there. I think lightning will be broadened to include stable. And we'll have interoperability between the stable coins and and Bitcoin which I think provides some interesting use cases there. But overall I am very much in a vision that Bitcoin in the decade will be a superior payments and savings technology for a large amount of a large subset of people in the world and that subset may always change depending on conditions in their country or their region or their personal lives, but I think Bitcoin is Is big enough and brought enough to fit the fit those use cases for a lot of people, what would you say the most exciting thing is for you with Bitcoin or lightning for me right. Now. The most exciting thing is getting as many people Bitcoin as possible in as short of time as possible. I'd say my own journey into Bitcoin and seeing the the community and the potential that the this technology. Promises I think will only benefit from more and more people holding it and using it. And so for me it is the most exciting thing is in finding ways to introduce it to the most amount of people in the least amount of time. That's pretty much what I spend my most time thinking about. Okay, so I'm going to go ahead and start wrapping up the podcast here. But before we go, do you want to let all the listeners know, you know how they can find, you know, you fold a little the lightning Network pizza and all that. Absolutely we got you know, we've got a lot of things here. Well, you can find me on Twitter @ WL R vs. And you can find fold at fold underscore app or fold app.com and there you'll be able to I pay for everyday things over the lightning Network and earn up to 20% back in Bitcoin and will soon be dropping some pretty incredible. Releases this month. So stay tuned there and on Lightning Pizza. You can find us at Ln underscore Pizza on Twitter or Ln dot Pizza online and make sure to get that five percent discount. Otherwise, you know hit us up and we'll help you get on board it into lightning answer any questions about lightning pizza and for all kind of, you know newbies or people who want to share with newbies. We actually just release something today called my First Bitcoin Pizza.com. It's essentially it's a kind of a primer step by step on how to onboard someone who's a pre coiner. Get them Bitcoin get them into a Bitcoin wallet get them into a lightning wallet, and then finally get them their first lightning pizza. So my first Bitcoin Pizza.com everyone should check out amazing. I'm going to check that out as soon as we're done here. Well, I really appreciate you joining me on the lightning junkies podcast, you know, have a good rest of your day. Thanks. Jess you too there. You have it. That was the second episode of the lightning junkies podcast. What did you think? Hopefully you'll learn something. Hopefully you took something away from that go check out fold and lightning Network pizza right away. In the meantime, if you did learn something or took something away from this podcast, please consider chipping in some sets via the crowdfunding campaign or tipping dot me you'll find the links in the show notes. Otherwise, if you like the podcast, please consider subscribing Scribing or leaving a review on any relevant podcast website out there until next time I'll see you on the lightning Network.
Second episode of the Lightning Junkies Podcast  In this episode, I interview Will Reeves from Fold/LN Pizza. Fold and LN Pizza are a way to spend your Bitcoin at various merchants as well as earn Bitcoin back for purchases. They allow you to use Bitcoin on-chain or off-chain with the Lightning Network. LN Pizza *only* accepts Lightning Network payments. Fold has a feature where you can earn up to 20% back as Bitcoin at various merchants. In this episode we explore:   Will's Background  Will's First few experiences with Bitcoin  Is Bitcoin rebellion coin or is it going to get tamed? Lightning Network  Privacy/KYC  Fold/LN Pizza and Kickbacks   Bitcoin in the Future   Will's Twitter: https://twitter.com/wlrvs   Fold's Twitter: https://twitter.com/fold_app Fold's Website: https://foldapp.com  Lightning Pizza's Twitter: https://twitter.com/LN_Pizza Lightning Pizza Website: https://ln.pizza/ My First Bitcoin Pizza: http://myfirstbitcoinpizza.com Sponsor the podcast with Bitcoin or Lightning Network: http://crowdfund.lightningjunkies.net Tip me on Tippin.me: https://tippin.me/@LNJunkies Tip me on Bottle.li: https://Pay.Bottle.li  If you wish to contribute in fiat, you can use the Anchor.fm subscription feature. 