I think sports medicine and in a lot of different aspects of medicine is becoming a lot more holistic and that we're starting to appreciate more and more of the effect that mental health and the brain has on performance. I mean, we know that that athletes were fatigued and not sleeping and and I have a bit of that exhaustion just they've decreased performance and they have higher perceived exertion who are cognitive function and we know that that athletes haveMental illness at four to five times the rate of the population so we know that this is a common issue. Welcome to the Super Sports mom podcast a place for all moms of Minnie and mighty athletes to get support and insights into the World of Sports. This is your place to learn grow and black. I am a sports dietitian former Elite athlete and New View Sports mom inviting you to adventure together. Together this podcast is sponsored by eat this for performance the home of Champions. Hi, welcome to the SSM podcast episode number 30. I'm your host Pearl nurenberg. And today I have a special guest who is going to talk about a topic that is near and dear to so many of us. It's a topic that touches every coach every parent every player in Some respect maybe you've experienced the deeper version of dealing with athletes and working with athletes who are struggling with their mental health. Now, I bring it up right away as this is a topic we dive into further in the episode, but I want you to know first and foremost that we here and eat this for performance want you to feel supported and want you to have resources if you are dealing with any aspect of anxiety depression. Ian the intense pressures that get put on athletes often bring about these and as you just heard dr. Anderson talked about it is actually way more prevalent in the athletic population that probably has something to do with all the pressures we put on ourselves as athletes and all that excitement that comes with those pressures makes it so enticing to keep piling on the trainings the different practices and the Petitions. So let's take a load off for a second and delve in with dr. Jordan Anderson. He's going to talk to us about some of the signs and some of the ideas around stress. And so we're going to talk about in particular this idea that we read about in one of his articles. He wrote for cross ice hockey website talking about the different zones of stress and what we can be, you know looking out for in our own athletes. It's dr. Anderson is currently finishing up his medical residency at Queen's University and he hails from Regina Saskatchewan where he completed his medicine at University of Saskatchewan and he has a great training background. He says he's played lots of sports and he's going to talk to us about his climb to the top of Mount Kilimanjaro, which I think is very interesting because there's a lot of parallels in his It's with what we deal with in sport and it's certainly an athletic feat. So I just had to be fascinating to hear a bit more about that experience. So let's we're going to dive in a second with this interview. But let's also let you know about a special event coming up in just a few short days here at eat this for performance. I was almost going to say weeks. But you know, we're actually getting down to days and we have this challenge for our community where we are actually going to do. Do something epic with our mindset around our body and it has to do with all the aspects that make us the most performing human being you could possibly be and we call it the map your performance body and we're going to talk about all of the things that make you up. Your body composition is a part of that. So if you're looking to gain muscle mass trim down on body fat, we're certainly addressing that but we're addressing much more than that. We're even bringing in the mental health aspect as well because we know that You start even chipping away at things like gaining muscle mass or losing body fat mental health comes in big time. We want to make sure we are not getting de zones of obsession of food restriction, and we want to make sure that you have the right tools resources and ideas going into let's say a summer training program or any training program in a season where you are going to be set up for Success. So this is coming up you can go get into the challenge at ET for P.com Challenge and join us there now. Let's roll the interview with dr. Jordan Anderson. So welcome Jordan to the SSM podcast. It's really lovely to have you here today. Yeah. Thanks so much. It's really happy to be here. I think the the rookie guys are doing is really great to them. I'm honored to be part of it too. We have some very interesting topics to delve into in the expertise. You bring two moms today in both medicine and I want to go a little deeper into the psychology that you've spoken about before and some past articles. But before we get, you know too into the weeds, why don't you tell us about yourself? Where do you come from? How do you get to be in the practice of medicine and particularly interested in sports medicine? Yeah, for sure. So, so as you mentioned, my name is Jordan and I'm currently in My Family Medicine Residency at Queen's University. T and I'm an aspiring Sports Medicine physician. So I grew up in Regina Saskatchewan and I did med school at the University of Saskatchewan so far. I've been quite passionate about sports medicine and my experience so far has been mostly focused on Junior Hockey and football athletes my biggest experience so far, I the honor of working with the Canadian medical team at the University games in Taipei 2017, and I guess a little bit about myself so I played Every sport growing up like like a lot of kids out there but really didn't play any of them particularly. Well more recently. I've kind of fallen in love with Crossfit and use that to kind of stay active and competitive and actually finishes the the number one ranked medical doctor in Canada for the worldwide, which the big kind of cross the pump pump awesome. Yeah and over the years. I've had lots of experience coaching so I coached Youth Sports like football and I've also Push a bit of CrossFit along the way and also really enjoy hiking and I actually got to climb Mount Kilimanjaro 16 which was a which is really great experience. Okay. So when did you decide I mean that is a big experience to climb Mount Kilimanjaro. So what was that like, so it was as well hardest things I've ever done is I've asked the underrated that experience a lot. So I wanted to go on a big hike like that and I wasn't willing to risk my life on Everest like a lot of people out there are but I had a cousin a good friend of mine who had climbed it and kind of recommended it. And so I got prepared and I was a lot of mental preparation as much as physical preparation and I think I mean my experience getting over there and and going up the mountain was was quite interesting. But what I found the biggest challenge was dealing with the altitude actually, so to think that you can imagine it's just Actually didn't never really had to deal a lot with but I just remember on the summit baby. We climbed almost 2,000 meters in about eight hours. And I remember getting to the top and I've never had altitude sickness like that before I was you know, I was dizzy and faint and I was really sick to my stomach and I was throwing up and I don't know if I'd ever felt worse in my life, but it was one of those things you think, you know, you come so far and you know, there's only a couple hours more to go and really kind of pushing pushing through at the end was Like I said was one of the hardest things I've ever done and yeah, it was one of the most rewarding experiences I've ever had in my life. So how much preparation did that take for you? When you how far in advance do you start in terms of your physical reading up on it and maybe doing some nutrition planning. So it was kind of six or eight months in advance mean as I mentioned that we do across a profile in that kind of kept my physical abilities up where I needed to be but I realize I needed to do a little more kind of distance training and and that kind of stuff so I had a little bit of trouble simulating out. you didn't and hills and Saskatchewan, but I you know, I wanted some someone hikes with thoughts kind of heavy baggage and did my best to kind of simulate what that was like and I made it you can only simulated so much and there's so much of that experience that you just you just can't prepare for which I can mean so many things in life, but I mean, you know, I like to have my died dialed in as much as I can especially before big events like that, but they once we once we get kind of of climbing on the hike they kind of have all the food arranged for so that was kind of out of my hands and I was a little bit at the as a little bit at their Mercy coming in tonight. So, you know, you do as much repairing as you can and just kind of hope for the best and so then probably the mental preparation came in pretty big there. So it was huge. Yeah. I mean you never you never know what to expect with with something like that, you know, it's going to be long days and and you're going to be sore and your Retired but fortunately I had I had to two guys that were in their 60s that were up there climbing it with me as part of our group and you know, whenever you get tired you look at those guys. Gosh, it's those guys can do it and you'll surely I can keep keep moving forward and then I think kind of the bond that we had really helped carry us towards the top especially when like I mentioned the altitude was was really getting to us all and we were all battling quite quite a lot. And like I said, you can you can prepare as best you can for for the mental challenges, you know, kind of make sure you're the right head space before you before you start something like that. But a lot of it comes down to kind of your your mental grit and how much you can push through it gets uncomfortable. Yeah. So did you find that the training you did like, what did you do to prepare your your mental state for that? I found a lot of visualization was really helpful for me. So trying my best to imagine what it would be like to you know, get to the top of the mountain but to face the struggles along the way really to to imagine what it's going to feel like when your legs are tired and you're you're a key and you're sore and you know, you don't really want to keep going and you want to just take a rest, but you don't really have that luxury at that time. I was doing a lot of a lot of meditation yoga in the evenings as well. And I found that Quite beneficial for me and I was able to use some of those some of those skills just to kind of help reframe my mindset when I was on the hill. Yeah, that's probably the biggest knuckle prints that I had and then do you find being in a team like kind of pushes you up even more when you're there? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. It was I mean hike is very much an individual sport in a lot of ways, but that team aspect that I had been around. So much growing up was was so huge. Its that support system that you have with one another. It's that kind of intrinsic and extrinsic motivation that you have from there's there's other people around you are pushing for the same goal and being able to work with each other, you know, when the when times get tough, but also when you're when the when the times are good and you guys can take it easy and you know can share some laughs and really share that Bond. It's it it reminded me a lot of plants. Sports and I was growing up and so that having it like I said having that a team aspect really helped helped all of us. I think yeah, I can see so many parallels to climbing Mount Kilimanjaro and the experience you talk about and were an Elite Sport. It's like that that literally your you know, the Peak Performance. So you're going for the peak. So on that note. I will also take me into Your years in the medical medical school down front of me and then you tell me that you have this passion for mental health. Tell me about that like how how this started and where you hope to go with this. Yeah. That's a that's great. So I so I initially got into med school and 2014 in Saskatchewan and made me like like anybody who just gets into med school. I mean things are great. It's really exciting. It's something you work for for so many years. And obviously those schools very hard isn't I think everybody knows so as as as a month but a long I realized I was starting to struggle a little bit. I was sleeping way more than I should have been and was just really irritable and had really low motivation and just was really not feeling like myself and if seeking help and I had being diagnosed with depression anxiety in my first year. So that was something that I had to had to work through and that was one of the other biggest challenges that I've ever had to face and and in doing so in part of my kind of counseling through that I started to open up with friends and family which was which is really really great. I got lots of support. I was a little slow to talk about it with by like my peers my professional colleagues. There's one day we were all sitting around in there was there's three or four of us and I was kind of opening up about how I was feeling in my experiences and a couple of them at also said, yeah, I feel the same way. I've had a lot of these things struggles and you just kind of keep pushing through those at that time. Gosh, like there's this is such a popular issue but there's really nobody talking about it, especially in the professional professional colleges that that kind of experience motivated. Me, too. To apply for a leadership position within the college and work with the mental health of the medical students in the college and that was a really great opportunity. I got the honor of creating some initiatives and did a lot of advocacy work for Med students within the college and kind of across the country to which was which was really great that passion has really persisted and I really enjoyed Can I be able to help help others with with some of these struggles and I have gotten to work with more and more athletes over the years so with like I mentioned with in junior hockey and an overseas. And I realize that there's there's a lot of parallels between between working with athletes and working with any medical students and professional colleges and then get highly motivated young people who have one big goal in mind and get very focused on that and face face a lot of challenges. So I I've been able to do a little bit of writing for that and hopefully have reached a few. People with that so I wrote a Blog for a good called skill shark, which I was very happy with the the Outreach that I got and I want to continue doing some of that work kind of in the future. So I'm actually working with dr. Carla Edwards later in the summer. Who is a split psychiatrist wrong. Well, she's really one of Canada's leaders and in working with mental health for athletes, and I'm very excited to work with her and hope to carry some of that as for Psychiatry knowledge and be able to help athletes with their mental health in my sports medicine career. Yeah, I was able to catch this article and we'll link out to it in the notes of this episode titled anxiety and depression and athletes know the signs and what struck me in looking through because you could see some visuals is this idea that we're in zones and that we're trying to keep our athletes in the yellow zone as you put it in the article where they can Thrive so can you talk to us about that and what these signs? Signs are and how we can keep athletes in this yellow zone and maybe tell us a bit more about the yellow zone. Of course, so I think this one actually applies to a very broad population but I think athletes particularly so there's a there's a wide-ranging zones from what we call the green zone to the Red Zone. The green zone is the very little stress and the red zone is the very very high stress. So the Own would be what we consider to little stress or where your kind of too laid back and almost a little bit disinterested. So where we see that so in terms of athletes who maybe have lost passion for their score to just kind of develop other interests, but are still kind of playing sport because that's what they've always done and just really really lost interest in it. And I kind of lost that passion that motivation. That's where we see the In zone, but more often we see kind of more towards the red zone. So where you get athletes who I mean spend a lot of energy and emotional effort and stress on their Sports which and of course, I think we all agree that that there's a certain level of stress that you need to succeed in sport. However, the Red Zone suggested there's there's too much stress going on. So it's where you get to the point we had lots of things. Panic attacks and lots of breakdown lots of stress poor coping with your mood and not only that it's not only the psychological effects of this but also a lot of times in the red sport performance also also tends to decrease so it can be I mean this can be manifested in a lot of different ways. So whether it be more physical things like feel nauseous you feel like you're gonna throw up Your muscles feel they're very tense, but also a lot of worry, that's kind of overwhelming in the sense where your word that you won't play. Well or that you're worried you going to let others down here working and that's what the game are having troubles focusing a lot of trouble thinking clearly which as you can imagine really would impact your performance. So what we we like to try to aim for is the the yellow zone, so it's more of a more of a happy medium. And between the two so the point where I mean, I think a little bit of stress of excitement before being a gamer before they try out I think is to be expected. But at that in the in the yellow zone, you're still focusing you're still kind of able to do the tasks that you need to do to succeed but it's not so overwhelming for you at that point. Okay. So we're looking for those signs and symptoms of too little or too much stress. Yeah, and how that can play out. In the athlete, you know, it's interesting is we're in the process here at eat this for performance of launching something called map your performance body. We're opening up a challenge to our athletes to map their performance body. And one of the things we bring up in that challenge is this we do introduce a something we're seeing in research, but that is also being talked about in sport something called relative energy deficiency in sport and it's this idea that Of athletes are trying to cut calories at certain points or cut energy for different reasons often. It has to do with body composition and there or there just for whatever reason not eating enough in their day and they're going into this Red Zone and as well in terms of like this low energy Zone and a lot of the symptoms you mentioned kind of are lined with that. So I wonder if there's like I always say there's like a lot of like psychology. Logical tie-ins to eating and that eating could bring you out of that. And is this something that you've seen or have discussed in the past? Oh, absolutely. It's huge. I think eating heads is one of many huge factors that impact. I mean athlete's performance and With with athletes competing at a high level especially in a lot of these aesthetic Sports so gymnastics and Diving and some of these kinds and cheerleading. This this kind of relative energy deficiency and concerns around eating habits are very prevalent. So yes, I absolutely think it started in my experience. I've definitely seen the impact that that stress can have on eating and that e-ticket have on stress and and see how those all really to Performance. I found what I feature in the red zone that a lot of things start to start to really struggle swords. You ready? The energy it's the eating is said before which is kind of everything and so you can imagine that finding a solution for these these kinds of athletes has is obviously not not easy at all. This is why we have great teams who helped work with these athletes. So there's a role for so many people. I mean, I think especially at a young age of parents have such a such a big role in these in these kids in terms of developing. I mean from the beginning good coping skills and and being supportive in discussing mental health and being understanding of when when their children are struggling and realizing that that's a part of life. I think that Sports psychologists and counselors have a great role in helping understand the relation between between stresses in the Motions of performance and kind of help helping in clearing up the understanding and why some of these Is his reactions are happening. I think dietitians also have a huge role in developing healthy eating habits. And a lot of these these athletes have really really struggle with what they're eating and takes a long time and a lot of work to help get get back to where you need to be coaches and athletic therapist at these guys who see these athletes everyday get to make such an impact in these in these athletes lives that similar to the parents and creating a positive environment where you can talk about mental health and talk about struggles openly and especially in these in these Sports where you see a higher prevalence of disordered eating in the relative energy deficiency, which is so important. So you talked about like opening up the discussion with within the family or with the the child and parents opening up that discussion. What what advice would you give to parents? To want to have that discussion or for athletes if you're listening, you know, if you want, how could someone approached you? That's a good question. There's it's difficult to give a blanket answer because everybody has different personality and handle stress very differently in my experience. I found that for me. Anyway, I found that finding people I'm close to so whether it be my parents or close friends of mine who initially I was very uncomfortable with the meeting that I had issues with my mental health and admitted that I was struggling. I think knowing that you have that support. System that no matter what what happens you're always going to be supported them and always get that get that feedback from from the people around you I think also I think that really helps start the discussion, I think from a from an athlete's perspective. I think having peers around you who you you can relate with then and we're going to support you throughout throughout your struggles I think is so important. And I also think that in discussing it with with parents and cultures. I think knowing that that parents are cultures truly at the end of the day just want what's best for you and I think dealing with these mental health struggles is such a such a big part of I mean growing as a person and growing it as an athlete that knowing that you can have someone teach someone to support you and athletic therapist a coach a psychologist. So important from a parent's perspective, I think creating an environment at home where you can openly discuss mental health I think is is so valuable not to necessarily dive into everybody's mental health all the time. But also just to be able to open up that conversation and to to check in on on everybody at home and see how everybody is doing it and fortunately there's been a lot of Beats over the years and I think we're seeing it more and more who have Become more open about their struggles flat Hunter think this is a great Avenue to bridge the gap between athletes and parents and to help start that conversation because I think it's so important that we do. Yeah just make it could be around the dinner table just talking about what was it the Bell talk initiative, you know, you just you sound like a different kind of doctor. So I'll just put this out there. It looks like you're trying to do something different in sport and especially opening up that discussion for athletes and families. So there is like even doing this right now the podcast opening the door of this topic just by by virtue of this interview, it's different. Alrighty, so you're because you're going into medicine, I just was curious as to how do you see medicine being done differently to you know to in especially in sports medicine. Yeah. I'm hoping to hope you'd end up doing sports medicine. So it's a good question. And I think you bringing up the Bell. Let's talk initiative. I think is is a great point. I think a lot of the work that they're doing is really great and like you were saying opening that conversation and I think it's been great since so many people athletes not athletes all different walks of life have kind of opened like open the conversation and discuss some of the struggles that they've had them really grown that empathy and and helping people realize that they're not alone. I think that in addition to as I mentioned before there with guys like damn car so and some other some of the retired hockey and football players who talk more and more about the star was that they face. I think it is. We're creating a world where it's okay to to have mental health struggles. I think that's that's okay. I think sports medicine and and a lot of different aspects of medicine is becoming a lot more holistic and that we're starting to appreciate more and more the effect that mental health and the brain has on performance. I mean, we know that that I think's were fatigued and not sleeping and kind of have a good about exhaustion. Just their decrease performance. They have higher perceived exertion who are cognitive function and we know that mental illness is sure that athletes have mental illness at four to five times during the population. So we know that this is a common issue and we also know that that mental toughness is so mental toughness meaning the ability to handle stress, I guess in that healthy and productive way is very a important protective protective factor for for mental health. So I think in terms of sports medicine, I think that we are appreciating more and more the importance of mental health on athletes and the importance of developing kind of well-rounded teams around these athletes to help support all the different different aspects of their lives that are affecting their performance outside of just the strength and conditioning and Fuse that that has been in decades past. So that's I think that's why I'm so interested in the in the mental health side of things as well as we see how how big of an impact it can have on athletes and and it's a it's a it's an area that I think is becoming more and more understood and I hope to you know to make a difference in these athletes lives one day. Yeah. Well, I certainly think you will are you already are and I know that those who are listening are, you know, just I think absorbing this idea and Maybe it's for the first time and if it is for the first time and you want to open up the conversation, you know, we'll definitely put some link outs to any resources that could be helpful in the nodes. And is there anything more you'd like to say to our to our athletes and to our Super Sports parents? Would you what would you like to say to our Super Sports parents in closing? Yeah, I think I guess my biggest advice for parents would be just knowing that. The rate of mental illness is a lot higher than we think so if your if your kid, you don't think a strawberry felt it on this they certainly may not be but know that it's more common than you probably think. So I think opening up the conversation and having that question whether there are concerns or not. I think is a good place to start and I think it helps develop that open conversation and the healthy relationship. That is so beneficial for for athletes. I think it's a small step that you can take and I think it's one that could be so beneficial amazing. Well, we'll be checking in on you and where you will end up hopefully in our town and just so thanks for coming on and sharing your wisdom and experience with the community. Really appreciate that. Awesome. Thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it. Thank you for listening to the Super Sports. Mom podcast this time my wish is that you You feel more empowered than ever to live your dreams for its life. If you get inspired from this message amazing, share it with a friend and pass that inspiration along. I can't wait to share the next adventure with you. See you next time. Hey does getting the right food in front of you at the right time seem a little daunting sometimes. Well, a lot of times you're not alone and that is why here at eat this for performance. We are making people I've Easier by taking out all of the guesswork from performance eating for all the situations. You may be in eating out eating in at the grocery store or just looking at that food down on your plate wondering if that is the right thing to be eating. So we have something that we would like to give you that is our performance eating Foods list. If you hop on over to et4 p.com, you can grab our food list and start going right away. In the performance foods that you want to eat. Once you have the food list, you'll be well on your way to digging into our four-part framework and really starting to become a confident athlete or a confident parent in your food selections. So have a look and definitely reach out to us. If you have any questions whatsoever. We're here cheering you on as you eat for that top performance in sport and in life.
SSM Episode #30 Dr. Jordan Anderson's article about mental health of athletes on cross-ice hockey website caught our eye and we instantly invited him to our podcast. For anyone in sports we believe that mental health is the most important conversation we should be having. Dr Anderson is a family medicine resident at Queen’s University and aspiring sports medicine physician. He grew up in Regina, Saskatchewan, and completed medical school at the University of Saskatchewan. He works mainly with junior hockey and football athletes. He also had the honour of working with the Canadian Medical Team at the University Games in Taipei, Taiwan in 2017. Anderson played every sport growing up and has more recently fallen in love with CrossFit, and in 2019 finished as the 30th ranked MD in the Worldwide Open (1st in Canada!). During the interview we delve into his climb to the top of Mt. Kilimanjaro. He talks about how visualization and meditation helped him get there! Dr Anderson formed a passion for mental health in medical school where he advocated for student health on a provincial and national level. He received one of the 2018 CFPC Medical Student Leadership Awards for these efforts. Anxiety and depression can ruin careers and lives. We here at Eat This for Performance support the efforts of parents, athletes, and coaches to get talking about mental health. More discussions = more solutions! In fact we are rolling out some discussions and providing some solutions in more depth in our 5 day challenge to Map Your Performance Body. As we see it, great mental health is needed for a top performance. 