What's up, Legends? Welcome back to another episode of the conscious locker room podcast. My name is Talia O'Connor, and I'm the host and creator of the show and I am stoked with the treat that I have for you this week had an amazing conversation with my man all the way out in Hawaii Trevor spring, but before I get in and share a little bit about Trevor and what we spoke about. I've got a public service announcement because I've actually opened up some spots for the first time in a couple of months actually some spots for some one-on-one coaching. So if you are looking to really step things up to another level in 2020 take your relationships and your life to a whole new level and really start living into that Vision you have for yourself, maybe get clarity around that Vision you have for yourself then reach out and let's schedule inner Clarity call. So this is just a Hold it helped you get clarity around where you want to go. What are the things that are actually stopping you from getting there and whether or not it would be a good fit for us to team up and really work together for a for the first half of 2020 and really get things going for you. So open up spots a couple of weeks ago for out of the 12 spots have been taken. So yeah, if you're feeling like you need a bit of guidance need a bit of support need some clarity to really dive deep. And create some significant shifts in your life. Then hit me up me the message me through Instagram or Facebook. If you if you're there or email me at tolly O'Connor the number one at gmail.com and we can tear up a time to have a Clarity call cool. So without further Ado I get to introduce you to the one and only Travis spring. So Trevor is the founder of wild and wise which is a men's archetypal embodiment experiential Workshop. And he's also the founder of wild and wise online which is a course and online course for health breathwork and Brotherhood. So Travis specializes in emotional and Primal embodiment and the underlying states of Health required to house mature masculinity and he spent the last 17 years 1 7 17 years working deeply as a holistic health and movement coach. He's also got an extensive background in men's work, but what he found was that the men's work he was doing was starting. NG to feel a bit heady and conceptual and based in story and full of important brotherly connections and support but it felt like a bit of a support group for keeping things the same and just surviving with the existing Paradigm. So Trevor began his experimentation process of really bridging his old world of embodiment emotional understanding and physical well-being with the men's work that he'd done and that's what gave birth eventually to the Wild and wise workshops. And online experience. So in this conversation where we dive into a lot of good stuff, we spoke about the importance of embodied practices that keep us connected to our physicality and and the limitations of trying to deal with things purely from the mind or purely from just talking about it and Trevor also gave a really great overview and insight into the different masculine archetypes and how we can use them as a powerful self-awareness and development tool. He shares his story. Around the birth of wild and wise and the medicine that this offers men who step into that space and we also got personal Trevor shared some some personal experiences about the challenges that presented themselves during the transition into fatherhood. We spoke about conscious relationship as an initiation for growth and evolution and also the importance of honoring the natural cycles and phases of life. This is an epic conversation. I'm really excited for you guys to listen to this and looking forward to hearing your feedback and Further Ado. Let me introduce you to you Trevor spring. Trevor thanks for taking the time to have a conversation with me man. Tell a lie. Yeah, brother. Thank you for inviting me on and you're welcome. I'm really thrilled that we made this happen and we're here right now. Yeah, likewise likewise. So yeah, how are you man? What's most present for you at the moment? What's most alive in you right now? Well, like I said before we hit record. I'm I'm just coming straight out of a to our pod call which is basically half of the wild and wise group for the Wild and wise online online course that I do so we just came off a two-hour call and it was just so connected and loving and fired up and truthful and it's men from all over all over the all over North America and places a lot colder than here and So yeah, I'm just feeling like really full with connection. Right right in this moment coming off that call and still to reconnect with you and the unknown of this and what this pot we are putting into right now, which I'm excited about, you know, and this micro level of this podcast, but also the macro level of our parallel work that we're doing in different places and with masculinity and healthy human hood and Embodied full spectrum and you know living so yeah, I mean that's that's like the main things that I'm feeling right now. I'm in I'm sitting in my home and Kailua looking out at the wind blowing through the trees and the amount the mountains called olomana in the distance. I'm on the windward side of Oahu in Hawaii and my wife and kids are out like a plaything so I'm healing really read at home. So happy address of you. Yeah, beautiful man. Amazing so good. And yeah you were I could feel you beaming when we first jumped on the zoom Cole coming fresh off that call with a water-wise guys. So yeah, I know you're creating some magic in that space and I'm excited to chat more about it as well with everything you're offering. I know you got that facilitator training happening next year as well so wild and Is coming in hot 2020 totally? Yeah, and I definitely want to talk more about that. But I want to person bite you to check it as well. Good. I don't usually do that. I'm usually on the delivering end of the of the questions. So checking in me right now feeling stoked to be here having this conversation with you. Like we really connected recently, but as soon as I just saw you on Instagram and what you were what you were sharing there was a real deep resonance with that. So I'm really excited to see what unfolds from this conversation. What else just Lots going on? It's been quite a busy couple of weeks. So just taking time to breathe cat and I had had a way for some some downtime some family time on the Cocos Islands in two days. So I thought I had three weeks to do a certain amount of work and it turned into one week. So just breathing through the chaos that that comes with that as ven the kind of the theme of my my last couple of weeks, but on the whole feeling good and feeling really excited to be here diving into it all. so on that note, I would yeah, we're going to we're going to definitely dive into all things wild and wise but for those listening that maybe haven't been following you and Aren't familiar with your work like I'd love to hear and few - are because obviously I heard heard we heard when we connected a couple of weeks ago, but share a little bit about your story and how Wild and wise came to be but like more so like the essence of it like the Nation of embodying those two what might seem parallels wild and what like and integrating integrating that sort of share a bit about your journey and how how that came to be because that's definitely something that I've felt prevalent in the work that I do and I see the importance of it of not leaning too far one way but integrating the both, but I'd love to hear your your journey because yours definitely comes from a lot of lived experience. So Yeah, well. where to start Well, I guess it's it's really relevant to say that when I was in sixth grade. I started wrestling it all changed and I'm just trying to tell this story from a different angle the right now so I'll start there. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, I was like super scrawny real premature born born super super tiny almost didn't live kind of thing and wrestling was Gateway into my own personal in my body, you know into my interior like relating in this really Prime away and tap into like my my strength that I had inside me that I hadn't tapped into yet so that just you know, and then from there long wrestling career and a family of passing the brothers and father and my pedigree of my of my family is very very athletic very embodied. And it's a bit my family's very male. Like, you know, like I said, there's three boys and my father and my mother as well. Yeah, just very athletic. Our brothers are total studs like some coming out of that. I had, you know, I could tell some other old life story. But you know, I started personal training started Fitness training almost 20 years ago in New York City and my career has been like check exercise coach CrossFit coach Russian kettlebell instructor. More holistic. So in the last eight years nine years, I became more holistically based working on mindset and food and like emotions and my wife and I opened up a gym and that's I moved to Hawaii 13 years ago and train all kinds of like lots of athletes and my car everybody can imagine and then my wife and I opened up this Jim and I had kids and it started like shifting just the level of satisfaction. I was getting from the work I was doing how hard I wanted to work at it and I basically I needed men's work and I didn't know it yet. So my wife bought me king warrior magician lover. Yeah the book the book and that was eight years ago eight or nine years ago now and yeah, I mean, it's just been like from there. I started doing sitting in many circles locally. And so I'm running these two parallel paths in them going through burnout phases and running this gym and training clients trying to more depth in that work and then after a couple years of sitting in the men's Circle that I was Rick wanting wanting more physicality more engagement more embodiment in the circles. So those are happening right around the same time. And so I took a break from running those from going to those groups. I started running my own like men's Circle. Pike's nice then and that was cool. But it just like had a shelf life nice and then I basically went okay. I need to create this thing. You can just feel this thing need to be to be bird. So I created while the morass and it was I ran it twice here on the island. Once in a yoga studio once on the beach any idea was we've been sitting in these groups every week for two years with these guys and I don't feel like I really know them we're sitting here in these chairs and we know our Our stories really well, like we're I was away I like to do is like we're magician ourselves and each other into believing that we were doing the work. Oh nice like know and and there's just there's judge. There's my judgment in that which I call but it brought me to a place of more integrated expression of my own like self-inquiry. And then you know, basically I connected with Jason Mackenzie of sacred son's we appears before we had been just witnessing each other on Instagram doing sort of more embodied more nature-based more breath practices of men's work. He has a big mankind project background as well. Just like I do. Yeah, so we're both in the mankind Project M KP and then we had gotten out of that and I still do that I've gotten back into that here in Hawaii because it's a great Community event. And then so Jay invited me to come to California and he said what do you want to bring and I said wrestling archetypical recipe. It's a workshop that I've run twice and he's like oh and I had no idea what it was going to be at that point how it was just going to be like plug Dynamite. I mean, it was really powerful in that particular container hundred almost. No the first one Grizz about 75 or 80 men was weakened. The second one was a hundred and then the other two were 120 and the workshop is just that's just insane so I can talk about the workshop a bit more but I wanted to throw it back to you because I feel like it is talk for a long. Yeah. No, it was good. I love it and I can relate to the journey kind of like a different spin on it, but the importance of bringing that embodiment. And awareness appreciation respect for the physical body into whether it's men's work and circles where you doing a lot of talking or even sort of personal development and mindset stuff like we can we can talk and have this new level of awareness. But what's actually shifting in our body that was been my biggest like Focus over the last couple of years. And so and that was really what sparked when I was I was watching your stuff and just seeing This sacred son's events and the wrestling and all of that. I was like had the same response that Jason had I was like fuck. Yeah and even in I could feel even in the stuff I've been offering in with men like I do a lot of breath work a lot of movement based stuff don't have that same wrestling background, but can feel the potency that that would actually bring to the space and how almost necessary it is to have a well-rounded. Sounded I guess self-discovery practice or Men's Work practice or whatever label you want to call it that physicality is almost to me in my opinion like a non-negotiable. And so to see that like being I guess the spearhead of of what's wild and wise is offering. I think it's just such a necessary offering and contribution to this space and it's so cool to see and I'm sure like being involved with them kpi. I did the new Warrior training a few months ago. So familiar with it haven't been with organizational or got amongst the meet up some the meetings yet, but familiar with that style and seeing lots of different styles and flavors of this work popping up and it's just really cool to to see you like really found a locked onto to what that is and and starting to offer that in a in a big way. So yeah, I'd love Black expand a little bit on like I guess. Yes specifically what they're offering entails in terms of I guess start with Y delve a little bit deeper into why if you're open to that in terms of what you're seeing in the men that you're working with sitting with as well, but I know you've done you've trained a lot of people you've coached a lot of people so what what was necessary as to the why this offering came through and then speak into what it actually isn't and what it provides. Yeah, rather. Yeah, there's this. Well, it's about intimacy. Right those if we're developing intimacy with ourselves. And then we're bringing it to The Container our most deepest into me with intimacy with ourselves. And then we're opening the doors of that to the container and saying like this is me. This is the space where I bring this because I'm held safe and I can do that and I get an honest reflection as well as like this Brotherhood just warmth of acceptance. From my brothers. That's what I'm here for and it's got to be in a in an embodied sense to or else I can like I said just magician everybody into believing that I'm something that we have to see different aspects of ourselves. Come alive kind of like I don't know a guy until I see him under a certain amount of stress or pressure or see him. I know a person more when I see their body move. I know I know a guy more when I watch him talk to a woman I know got More when I watch him and when I feel him when I engage him within wrestling when we tie up and we push against each other it's like oh, okay. There you there you are. So there's always these ways of knowing each other and from that place we can like give each other really well rounded feedback really objective feedback like and Trust ourselves to do it and we're not just projecting on a man. Yes with no wood. No truth in it. So that's why the wrestling, you know, the wrestling was like something that we that we all I think across cultures, you know, don't do that. Don't bring that in this house. Don't roughhouse. You know, it's like there's no place for like good Rock Housing. Hmm. Unless you're in Jiu-Jitsu or some kind of martial arts and luckily my brother my younger brother who's not my little brother anymore. He's giant but he and I grew up wrestling. Gather just like this just like constantly and we really sharpen each other. And so I had that and I missed it when I was in the men's work. And so I actually I just see that there's tremendous benefit in like having this physical experience of ourselves and then bringing that to each other having a physical experience together and the level of intimacy that we have with ourselves through that challenge and then That we also have with each other and workshop the workshop at this point is kind of like it's almost like I didn't even know what I was doing when I created it and each time. I do it. I'm just like holy God. This is so pretty. It's like so beyond so it's I'm just real real humbled by it. Yeah. So today it's about deeply, you know, knowing ourselves and deeply knowing each other and and an embodied way. and I love what you talked about how under this stress so that you know more about watching or wrestling with somebody or seeing them in a situation where there's some level of stress like when the rubber meets the road what's actually there so we can all sit around and talk about these awesome ideas and we can read books and recite things and all of this stuff but when the rubber meets the road, what's there like I think it was Wayne Dyer who said like when you squeeze an orange only Orange juice can come out so it's like when there's pressure and when you're under stress and tension what comes out what's there because that is the truest indication of what's actually they're not what we're putting on front. We're not what we're putting on the spit shine version of ourselves. It's like when there's stress and tension, what's their do I panic do I stop breathing do I freak out or do I explode or and I feel like there aren't many Arenas to build that muscle. So really in life like you say a lot of the roughhousing a lot of unless you're doing it via sport was an outlet I had but it was always team sport never the intimacy of like wrestling or something like that. But if we don't have that how do we build that muscle of staying calm under pressure and under stress? If we don't expose ourselves to it in some way shape or form safely? Yeah. Yeah, and then the the other layer of it of one wise is that it's like there's a there's up space in the there's a men's Circle within wild and wise to process what what happened what went down what what we came into it with what where we were coming from before earlier in life and how it landed and so there's a processing space. So what if what MMA gyms or wrestling teams or you know Comfort ational spaces, do you do you have a safe space to then process what came up for you and half and then Leverage that to grow like that. That's what differentiates wild and wise from sport is that it brings that level of like real vulnerability. Like what if we did an MMA practice in we're all really going at it and then we sit and process and get real vulnerable to each other. That's like that's that's different. So that's kind of in a sense. That's what it is. Yeah. Nice one. I love it. It's getting rid of the either roll. You know we get so conditioned to separate things like our mind likes to separate things and put things in boxes to make them easy to understand. Am I this around my this is it this or is it this is it right or is it wrong and it's like, hang on a second? Why don't we have both what? Yeah. Yeah, beautiful awesome. Yeah, yeah, so I think that's something that I do. Because I'm kind of a jack-of-all-trades. I do lots of things. I'm a real real generalist in lots of ways and I've lots of things that I do pretty well. So this is like a natural way for me to express my own gifts. And that's that's been part of what this is to like. I had to create this Workshop because I felt like I just need to create something that words represents what it what and who I am and have been in who I am now to help my integration process. I'm getting my healing and my integration by create by this creation and by being with it and nurturing it and getting it getting it off the ground and then continuing. It's like I'm continuing to grow with it because it really is a lot of different aspects of me that I wanted. I didn't want to just let go like all I used to just be a dumb jock and now I'm just this like real spiritual guy. And and I rest I wrestled with that for years, you know, just how do I like still exercise and how do I go after these very physical things and when I'm trying to really be deep and like Sovereign and have this Sacred Space about myself and I've really felt like there was this this real tension between those two things for years for me. And this is this is the gem that came out of it after I mean, I would say like a solid A solid five years or so just kind of feeling told between those two and feeling tug between like the evolved man and the spiritual guy the guy he's deep and sensitive and he doesn't really need to to prove himself and then the man who's deeply physical and Primal and like like in touch with power and you know, because I shied away from those things for a while. There was one point Point in my training my personal training experience where I went like, okay. I'm going to stop lifting weights in the stop eating meat. I'm going to study even stop surfing because it brings out this like some some spots in town here can be like just crowded and I would just since this exists like aggression energy coming on and so I'd like kind of stopped doing all these things for a while. Yeah like her how do I integrate them back in so this was part of it? Yeah. Yeah, beautiful and can you speak to The archetypal nature of what you've created and you've referenced a few things like magician in each other into believing we're doing the work and so for any guys listing that maybe haven't heard of or aren't familiar with using archetypes as a way to look at our psyche and our structure. Yeah, just just I'd love to hear the archetypes according to Trevor 101. I just want to be clear I got on these I didn't create them. Yeah, I'm just riffing off of what I what I've taken in mostly from like Carl Jung and jungian analyst that that I'd like use his work as a framework to understand our psyche and these like real Timeless Primal energies that lived through us and live within us. So the idea of an archetype is that we all have these different aspects of our character of our personality and of our G systems that that have different qualities and their their innate in each of us in different ways and this this this wheel makes it real simple. It's like four-quadrant real wheel it split down the middle and horizontally and it's like King lover Warrior of magician. And so the idea of the lovers that the lover is like sensitive and This is like if we go around the wheel or clock. It's like the Rising Sun The Colors yellow. The direction is the East the element is the air or breath. That's the direction of the the inner child or my little boy. My little boys needs, you know, the lover energy. So it's about connection. It's about creation. It's about potential like think of the dawning Sun that yellow colors just like, oh it's going to happen are you know and just like this That level of sensitivity to details nuances like really diving into it. So the lover energy is about fluidity. It's about it's about like just like connection. It's about weeding everything together and you know, there's a in all the archetypes. There's a there's basically an inflated or deflated aspect of each of the archetypes. So, you know overinflated lover would be like, I just collapse myself into things that I love like substances. I love or my relationship or I just like fall into love and boundary-less and then a deflated lover is like I can't engage like my deep needs. I can't engage my my creative self might person second chakra. You know, I can't I can't engage my I can't engage my lover. I can engage like the people that I'm close with with with real intimacy. So that's like the lover aspect. So when we were on the wheel and to the South and it's the color red, it's a passionate fire. It's like this like yeah, it's passion. It's about action. It's like so the healthy Warriors about is about connected action. It's about like I'm going to think about an arrow. It's like a straight line. I'm going to move towards the thing that I desire and it's also about boundaries. So the lover is about kind of like No Boundaries is kind of just flew in. There's a Serial floating and the warrior is about the ground. It's the element of fire and it's about segmenting things and saying wait a minute. Here's what needs to happen right now everything else. To the side. This is my focus to not focus. And so there's a very there's a very healthy. There's it can also often seem like that's masculine and the lovers family but this isn't true like there where men but we have both aspects of we have all these aspects in us and when we express them in a dynamic way, we might be like real nian very feminine very fluid very like open and connected and then the warrior can come online and say okay. Yeah this needs to happen right now and and I need some space and I love you and I need some space to do this right now. Boom that's like grounded Warrior energy. And the the inflated Warrior is like, you know pillage burn rape, you know make money at all costs, you know, don't consider my adrenals or my my my inner needs or my my basic needs. And I just need to do and accomplish and Achieve and you know work with in this capitalist framework and you know, very single-minded than the deflated Warriors, you know, I can't get off the couch. I can't I can't say no etcetera. So yeah moving around the wheel then the the magician as I understand that is the color black. This is like the mystery, right? The magician is like The is the is the shaman is the Mystic is the one who walks between the seen and the Unseen worlds like and understands and has this level of integrated trust to to not need to control and to be able to surrender, but then also work with the variables to trust the process from one scene to scene. It's also about death In letting go that's about reflection. Like if you think about the the magician it's like the time I'm plotting my land and I'm using the because I try to not use the strong military strategist analogy because I think it's a bad one, too. I've heard that used a lot but I like to think of it as like a I'm strategically using my land in my in my that I'm stewarding to say like this plot of land needs rest and that's why I'm going Take that and I'm going to plant regenerative crops on this one. And this one is going to be producing. The season in the water needs to be used in this way and then breaks here. It's kind of like this permaculture mindset of like how to really work with variables how much how little how long so it's like our that's our inner magician. How do we orchestrate the variables of our own life reality? And that's the direction of the West will move up to the north and it's the color white. This is the elder. This is also like what's a clock it's also like, you know later in life. This is our Elder years and this is where our King is our wisdom our Sovereign being in this is also about like compassion and benevolence and blessings to others but in a practical way it's being able to like self validate its being able to say like, yeah, I trust myself for trust my magician a trust. Lover my lover say like and I talked about this a lot in the wild and wines course to my my lover's needs and my magicians action or my Warriors action. And I trust those and I'm going to I'm going to trust my my choices and then I'm going to learn from them and I'm going to adjust according. I'm also going to see with my blessing lens. I'm going to see the Beauty and the the towns of others and I'm going to empower them to to to really do there. A thing so I can let go of that aspect of my kingdom and you know oversee and a good way not controlling not dominating so I didn't speak to the let me strong. I didn't speak to the magician. That's that's like, you know the manipulator which is like the the overexpressed magician and the unknown the the under Express magician is like, you know, basically like not not skillfully working with variables is Basically Switched Off and by using blunt using a hammer. We're Square screwdrivers needed. Yeah, gotcha blend Solutions. So and then, you know going this King energy is just like it's us being in our in a grounded place and tapping into our wives maturity. And obviously the Tyrant King is is you know is unintentionally using people dominating controlling. And the under the under empowered King is like, you know is a victim to what other people are doing. Yeah, beautiful. Thank you for sharing those insights. It's it's such a powerful framework and obviously like you say you didn't come up with it. It's sort of speaking to almost like like you say Timeless energies that it exists and they're either online or not online or overexpress under expressed and I'm sure everybody listening could Different aspects and be like, whoa. My love is a bit over expressed her wall and I love how quickly you can use it to self-reflect in any moment. It's really powerful. So you mentioned the book king warrior love a magician. Would you are there any other resources that you've found that if somebody's like well, like I want to delve into this more obviously you're offering with the online course, but at that any other resources in terms of books or anything like that that you would recommend because I know that book is a bit of a dense read like it's there's a lot lot to wear and it's quite detailed. Have you come across any other resources that are beneficial totally? Well number one. The sacred Sons offers and embody masculine course in there's actually eight archetypes that they go through and it's epic. I taught. I let a pod ones last year and it's just that epic like 16 week Journey with other men and it's virtual and we really really go into each archetype at a time and really dive deep into it as a group so that but then I've also encouraged men. There's some specific sites that I like on YouTube. That are where where guys have gone in deep into each Arc. Excuse me deep into each archetype. Yeah. So there's a you can you can YouTube search like the lover archetype young and you'll have so much come up and it's about building like a constellation of your own understanding the way I see it sort of like a narrative but then bring it in bring it into usable terms is like the biggest challenge and I feel like that only really started to land. Me over the last few years. Yeah working with this Workshop. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah and that such and that's I think probably why I ask because even that book king or love magician. It's like, oh wow, but it's kind of like well, what do I do with that? And again that's years ago. It's really land until the last yeah. Yeah. Cool awesome, and I'd love to To shift gears a little bit and speak back to your sort of personal story because I normally open with this question, but but I didn't today but I'm glad I didn't because now I'd love to hear how you've utilized your understanding of archetypes to navigate something but what's a significant challenge that you've overcome in life and I might be ages ago. It might be recent. But yeah, what's a significant challenge you've overcome and what did you learn from it? And if you can yeah how has your understanding of either at the time or in retrospect healthily embodying these different archetypes? How did that help you navigate that challenge? mmm Well, I'll use one that I think a lot of men can relate to you know, because there's so many child. There's so many challenges. I could I could speak to like there's there's a lot but you know, the I gotta just give props to my wife because yeah, her sword is sharp and it's help help. It's helped my sword to be sharp, you know. And I've said I've said it a lot and I like saying it that like the reason that I am who I am is because because I've had our relationship as a training ground to to sharpen and to shed and then that woman is she's she's a powerful unique really wise being and I'm super grateful to to be in a space of continuing to learn together. So yeah, I'd say that challenge the way that that came was, you know, I mean, I had no idea what I was getting into ten years ago when we got together, we were just like having fun and I she had two kids and who moved into R into relationship so I became a stepped out overnight, you know, not overnight but really fast I have to step kids that are 19 and 13 and then, you know, we started a business together. So there was this like deep codependency. That was just unconsciously woven into our relationship. And then and then basically what happened is we had we had our first daughter. We had a home birth. She stopped working at the at the gym and my whole like plan was like, you know, like oh shoot things just chicken and I could go in there how things changed but basically she started really tapping into her deep self as a result of the pregnancy the birth experience and She stopped playing into the same codependency narratives that I was unconscious and I would even say unconscious patriarchal contracts. Then we had both signed and unknowingly relational contracts and how we show up for each other and for ourselves or not and getting out of that phase and was was two serpents confusing period of My life, you know like running a business and try and I have a new baby and my like the relationship Dynamics changed and I'm just like what is going on here? So, you know and then I we have our other daughter two and a half years later just about my daughters are Nova Jezebel my wife's Eliza and Kato. I mean, it's just the journey that we've had together to unravel are codependent patterns be with a woman whose Who's powerfully outspoken and Incredibly wise in her own right and to learn to learn to embody power in a different way and in written to relate in a different way it always has been the biggest challenge of my life. And there were many many many times where I thought it wasn't going to was going to work anymore. We've stayed with it and just like come back from many deaths. Like we've had a lot of deaths and then it's allowed us to really rebirth as a couple individually individual ultimately individual to continue to bring that to the relational container and You know, I said it in the sacred Sons podcast as well, like part of a big part of this my inspiration for like once I started getting the concept for the workshop for Wilding wise I started thinking like man this whole like leading with the lover aspect is really key. And then the warrior ones we've established that intimacy is is super valid because I would see myself get get into my warrior and get disconnected from my heart when I was In a heated situation with my wife and I would when I would feel really threatened I would disconnect from my lover my heart from like my compassion and life and and it'd be kind of like I'm fucking out for me. Okay, you know like all bets are off. Yeah energetically. Yeah, so learning to balance those and keep the integrated Lover online while and fully stepping into Warrior is something that I I do better now than I ever have and I think the owning this through the workshop is like helped and understanding the archetypes and self. But yeah, that's that's that's my my answer is my relationship and how ya doing this this partnership thing with my beloved amazing and I said, I think you were right when you said a lot of guys will probably be out of relate to this one. I think I think you couldn't have chosen a more relatable. To overcome. I don't think and there's so much in what you shared that I'd love to just dive into a little bit more. If you're open to it that what you touched on about that death and rebirth individually and then bringing that to a bringing that back to the relationship as being a pivotal remember the word you use but that was pivotal to the process of Lucky say it was touch and go there many times and that being willing to die. I metaphorically die and and step into the new I find is so fundamental to navigating Evolution individually, but especially in relationship because if we get attached and try to hold on to what was to what we thought freedom was or what we thought this was especially when kids pop up and these kinds of things that I find is the source of so much struggle this holding on to what was like, so yeah, I'd love to if you to speak into that aspect of it a little bit more. Was that something that you were consciously doing or did you just find it happening or how we how did you navigate that feeling of dying and leaving part of your behind and stepping into something new individually and within the relationship? Okay. Yeah, I mean I went through years where there was unconscious. Yeah, I was unconsciously doing it and I was like, you know sort of resentfully resentfully occupying the new way. Yeah. Yeah. Why isn't it like that? Yeah. Yeah. So yeah both I mean there I had to learn over time that that's what was happening. And you know learn to honor the fact that there's like debt a death happening in our relationship and then it doesn't mean the relationships over and even when it feels like there's just bones everywhere like we're done we're done. We're definitely dead. There's no pulse right now. I've got my finger on it and I cannot feel apart. Yeah, and so learning to to see potential in that and y'all okay. Okay. Well, this is actually a good thing if I can be fluid enough and even even like I'm remembering now, like that's why I love these narratives and telling these stories because it like bring think brings things through. Mmm. I remember the day I left the first men's convergence the sacred Sons convergence. I was staying in a hotel about to fly back to Hawaii and I had a dream about an octopus and it was Heavy just like very clear very Dream and its really stayed with me and from that was like, you know embody your fluidity embody this, you know, octopus are hermaphroditic and they're just like these incredibly incredibly Dynamic creatures. And so even then even, you know, a year and a year and a few months ago still like really not fluid with myself with my life to the degree that I was being so it's an it's an evolution. So I'm still learning. You know, I'll look back on this moment now and be like, yeah, I was still not where I am now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so that fluidity learning to be fluid with the death and rebirth cycle and to see the potential in the in the depth and the to like embrace the death as as a good thing with That was fully learned. Yes. I did not have that software company. Yeah. Yeah. I love that and it's so such a powerful shift in perspective to be like, wow, look at all this creative potential we have because there's nothing there like you say, what was there? How are used to relate how used to make love how he used to communicate? That's not working anymore and rather than being like oh shit. It's all falling apart. It's like yeah, maybe but there's so much potential in that and I feel like it can be scary because that's surrendering to the unknown which I guess is part of that healthy magician aspect like being okay with the unknown and surrendering to that is creates the space for it at least and then you can start to work through from a place of possibility rather than scarcity fear lack all of those kinds of things and I think it's something that Probably coincides with maybe a lack of loss or a lack of Rites of Passage in our society as well because I feel like these Evolutions in cycles of different phases of Life a natural and necessary yet. We almost have a societal narrative that life is linear and there isn't these sort of sort of cycles and without that place to go and let the boy die or let that part of a style stepping into fatherhood like because I know You do a lot of work with like young boys as well. And yeah, I'd love to hear your take on your experience with sort of that Rites of Passage or or navigating transition. Obviously, you've spoken to your own experience in terms of that relationship transition, but just in general how we can apply that as well and what you've learned from that work with the young boys. Yeah. Yeah, and that's one of the narratives that I've learned to uptake also is Like okay, I'm being an issue. Yeah, okay, and that like helps me relax, you know, that's like the magician the trust of the Magician of being like Oh, yeah, that's nice. So I was like a remembering like yeah this yeah. Okay. This is supposed to be happening cool cool. Cool. Cool. And I'm like, yeah, I mean I was not initiated in a traditional way and I've Seeking ways for years to intentional eyes that for myself because I knew I realized started to realize that I was getting initiated by life. So I wanted to find ways to intentionally do it. And so I've done a lot of different things for myself, but the over the last like two ish years. I started working with Boys to Men mentoring Hawaii and I brought I started the Allahu chapter 4 for this mentoring program. And so now we have eight schools and it's a volunteer Mentor base and these are all the men that I do out. So I think these are all the men that I sit in circle with that I do this work with and it's crazy. Like there's a team of me and the guys that I said circle with and we walk into these schools and we're just like we show up and we don't figure out Is about men we want to be we don't do Shadow work. We just freaking show up for an hour as the man as the men we are now, we don't give advice we listen deeply we model like mature, you know reflection on what goes down in the group and she goes down at their teenage boys, you know, it's not easy. Yeah light and it's not easy and it's like deep and painful to watch and confusing sometimes. And but the idea is that the I guess a surface look at initiation is like it's meant it's just what you said these cycles of death and rebirth or natural in the human blueprint and we culture that doesn't recognize that they should be happening or need to happen or honor them at all. Yeah, so, you know in intentional initiation and at least circling in a place of introspection is like Is the thing that needs to happen to get us closer to initiating ourselves through life and then if we take it a step deeper than we can intentionally create initiatory experiences that which is I think why people have gone so deep and plant medicines and last number of years or combo and that kind of thing. Yeah to try to self-initiate and one of the one of the sayings in the in the sacred Sons like Community is that Brotherhood is the medicine and and it's true but and and relationship is the medicine and no I mean I mean depends on how you're going to use it though. You can you can do all the initiatory experiences that you want. But unless you're willing to go there then the change doesn't happen. Yeah, and unless you're willing to integrate an act on it once you leave so it's like going there in the experience, but then it's like Yeah, cool story what what's different as a result of that experience and that integration phase as well I find can get especially when it's unintentional you go to a retreat or something unless you're very conscious about your integration back. Then it can get missed or it can get done not as well as a potentially could as well because like you say, it's the medicine but anything in too much anything in excess becomes a poison like Water does, you know, so too much relationship too many experiences. It's like you can get lost in in that I find as well. I don't know if you've witnessed that along your journey as well. But yeah, totally well, I know one of the things that I think is really important for integration is that like, you know, I think humans now are recognizing that there's been a lot of structures in our in our world that are set up in faulty ways. Governor government socially politically everything there's all these things right Healthcare relationship like the expectations of how these things are and what they should provide for us. And yeah, I mean, it's basically being able to take take all of that and go okay. I need to like step back and go within so that I can step back from trying to like work all those angles and try to it all better and pull back from so it's like being able to go go out and then go in and go out and then go in so that we're not too deep into one thing where we really narrow get get blinders on helps the like that breathing out and in it's like helps the integration Apple. So like being deep in relationship, you know, one of the things I had to learn this simple I had to learn because I was working from The Narrative that like The dad I needed to be with my family and I had a phase where I was speaking with my family. I like gave up relational self-abandonment. You know, it's just like home all the things that I used to love her dead to me here with you all and there was it was like good and that it was like not good and that's why is this feel so not good because I'm not doing things that I love I'm not getting out so I can get perspective on you know. This thing over here. Like I really loved that thing. I wanna go back to it. Yeah, so losing ourselves in like anything like so that was a big thing for me learning to like healthfully detach from my partnership healthfully detach from my family go away do the things that I need go to work, you know pursue my passions that I'm that are really important to me and that's like a big big aspect of being able to let go which Comes back to the deck piece. Yeah, and I feel like that's such an important one and depending on I guess your natural makeup you go one of two ways. Like I'm either all with the family or I'm all at work or whatever we've got sort of in our brain is like what we should be doing will kind of gravitate to that especially if we don't have any guidance into that phase of our life like Nothing, you know well perceived physiologically changes with us. It can be easy to look at men and be like not as much changes for men stepping into fatherhood as women stepping into motherhood because there's such a huge physical mental emotional hormonal transformation for that motherhood transition. I feel like the fatherhood transition can sometimes get left out a little bit and not given as much support or focus in terms of like rite of passage or God and so it's just a lot of Flying Blind and I've been very intentional around connecting with this many Fathers as I can like yourself just to because we're our babies doing in April. So I'm going to be going through this myself and I feel very fortunate to have yeah a lot of different experiences to draw on so I can sort of feel what yeah, what what what feels true for me in that transition. Yeah. When the men that are coming to you for work, either with you one-on-one coaching. I don't know if you're doing that at the moment but in your groups is the challenges of fatherhood a common theme. Yes loaded question. And and I guess yeah, what do you feel? Sorry like that. And what do you feel is at the root of a lot of it when because I'm sure you have more conversations than the average person does with You know what? No walls down. What do you feel is at the root of the struggles that that men go through stepping into to fatherhood. Let's just say a weak King energy. Hmm. So what I mean by that is is that fatherhood is so dynamic. It requires you will Discover it requires. It requires letting go of how you think she thinks should be and how you how you want things to be and this is my experience. Yeah, and it it requires an ability to be to be firm and like boundaries and direct and then also just let it go and move with what's with what the new moment is asking no in Wake way not in like a shutoff like a fine kind of way. So it requires a really strong Dynamic fluid kind of like the octopus King that can go. Okay. I'm gonna like okay. Yeah, okay, there's strength in that fluidity and being able to let go of the plan let go of the narrative let go of the frustration and and move into what's what the new moments calling for. Or so having fluidity and being able to accept and like stay open and compassionate and truthful like Oh My My Feet I've heard a lot of dads say like, oh, I feel I feel kind of hurt because the baby doesn't want me at all. The first year baby doesn't want it hand and you know for one I think for a man to acknowledge, that is cool. Vulnerable is truthful and then to know how to depersonalize it and understand that it's like a natural thing and then and then show up in a really loving open present way in that like except accepting that as the way yeah, baby doesn't want me for the first year. It's the first year. That's how it is how it is just like as an example. So yeah that dynamic dynamic fluid maturity is is part of the initiatory process of becoming a father and it's just lovely. It's like something you can't access in other ways, you know, and then the carrot the kids the kids get a little bit older and it changes again. Yeah, and then as soon as you get your ways, they're going to change again and they're going to say no a lot like I've To her didn't I get the word know I get told no more than I ever haven't and I'm just like I can't you know, you can't overpower you can't force like what do you do? So it's very it's challenging and words are so powerful and our bodies were so much bigger than them and we're so much more physically powerful than them. Like how do we care for ourselves so we can show clearly present. That's something that Came out of the last. Let's see that Alpha session of the last one wise men's conversions was like a bunch of men that were fathers said like, you know, this is showing me how I because I'm not getting this out this energy this kind of like being that fully in this fully confrontational physical conscious way unlike sort of taking this out on my family and it's really unfair than most. Oh God my heart, you know. Like really really profound so we have to have our own so we have to have our passion. We have to have our Brotherhood we have to be able to be honest with what we feel and have these Primal expressions of how we move energy so that so that we're not shutting down and locking up. Yeah. Yeah, hence the breathwork. Hence the physicality. Yeah. Yeah. I loved it the Energy's coal to go somewhere. So unless we're proactively doing it in a healthy way. Way, that's that's building something. Then it will come out sideways. So yeah, such a powerful Insight. Thanks, man. Beautiful. What's what's exciting me most right now. Like what's what's your I'm a huge believer in it. Anybody is listen to the podcast knows. I love to ask. This question is like, what's your what's your vision? I'm a huge believer in the power of speaking our vision into existence and obviously matching that with action, but Yeah, I'd love to hear give you the floor to what's exciting you right now. What's what do you living in to? What are you creating with your with your family and personally, but also professionally with wild and wise what's what's got you fired up sort of heading into 2020 and Beyond. Wow, so this is this will be my my moment to stand up and make some incantations about what I'm calling in. Yeah, please do well first I want to set the foundation of gratitude for what I am in right now Mike. I know it's hard for me to express how much how Justin I am of of my life like especially connecting with a Then that are on the mainland in Canada and in the west, you know, they're like in like feet of snow and ice and I'm just really feeling blessed learn why we moved into this new home for months ago and it's just really meeting all of our needs. It's just like being repotted in a bigger pot. So that's just amazing. My wife and I are at an incredibly loving deep Sovereign beautiful juncture where we've got like, An unprecedented level of separateness of good separateness, like even sleeping to sleeping separately part of the time so we can really be connected to ourselves. Yeah. We just got two cats this last week two kitchens, which are amazing. Yeah. So there's just this moment of what I'm living in is just like providing this like wow this deep breath of what's possible that so from from this place of like starting to sense. It and feel it and all the Gratitude that's here for it is I you know, I just put on the on the books that Walden wise facilitator training is happening. Yes. And for those that are just listening to the podcast and not watching on YouTube. I'm just fist-pumping in there right now. Yes, I was so good. Yeah, that's that's I'm really psyched about this next days with that. You know, I'm I'm this the Walden wise online course is the second time. I've run it in and it's just lovely and powerful and I really love doing that work. I want to I want to do the Wild and wise online multiple times a year. And so I want them to be able to sign on for six week course and really have these deep drop-ins and of physicality breathwork Brotherhood and really it's not about the programming and doing those things. But what comes up in response to that and what comes up personally for you? And then we process that in our container growth that happens from there. I think it's just awesome. So I'm excited about that about growing the online Vision, but then this facilitator training is it's like an opportunity to really take this thing that I didn't realize I was was going to be such a potent tool and I'm looking at At it and I'm like this is okay. I feel really connected to this thing. This is how it holds a lot of transformation potential. I really want to bring this to men and to the world and I've always I think I've always had a thing with putting my medicine out in a way that can be up taken by another person and saying like look here's what I think is important and here's how I like To do it. Here's how I like to deliver it. There's this self-validation. Here it is. Again. There's a self-validation aspect that goes along with that of me saying this is important and it's important enough to me and I believe in it enough that I'm going to put it in like a manual and I'm going to create a course around it and I think that you 20 men should show up and that we should do this together and that you can also hold this medicine bring it out to the world and bring it to men in your community. T bring this way of working with men of this deep intimacy physically emotionally verbally, you know that we can that we can that this holds a lot of value. So I'd love to run one or two wild and wise facilitator trainings in year with 20 to 25 men the first one scheduled for March on Maui and it will be capped at 25 men and It's like there's all this unknown, you know, it's again, it's like that verse there's like this new things birthing and there's all this thing. What is this thing going to be? What's it going to feel like when other men are running water wise it's going to feel like when other men are are really stepping into that in the good way. How do I Steward that? How how do I support them to Steward it in a good way because it's scary men coming in to Walden wise and know like like, you know, there's a lot of 40 men step into the Dome and it's like everybody take a breath. There's a lot of tip because there's a lot of tension in the unknown here. Everyone's like it's like, okay this is this is a safe space and but it's I mean, we're being very physical with each other and intense and so, how do I then how do I support these men to Stuart it and hold this medicine that I think is so important in the best way, so I'm just Jazzed about it my thing. Yeah, and of course, I'd love to have you come out and do the do this facilitate or training one time. Oh man. It's like yeah, I'm there whether or not depending on when March like babies coming April it would be a stretch. But yeah, I feel ya. I feel like feel the importance of I'm so excited that you're doing it because it just amplifies the ripple effect. I mean and you've seen it firsthand the ripple effect. This work can have even if it's a man just Peeing into a six-week online course the shifts that happen for him. And therefore his relationship is family his friends. It's like the ripple effect is is instant, but when you start to step into like facilitator trainings of this kind of thing, it's just the ripple effect on crack and right. Yeah. I'm just yeah, it's so so good to see you sharing that medicine and giving your people a chance to come and taste the medicine of Hawaii at the same time as well. Yeah. Yeah, I love it, man. And and what about if you're open to it sharing on your personal you just shared a lot of obviously gratitude for where life is at? But it you in that sort of King energy. Are you building or what's your vision with things in terms of your family or your personal relationships with your friendship circles or those kinds of things is it more just Kate things humming along the way they are is there is there anything that's yeah requiring any any Evolution on that front for you or is it more your focus is really that's home front is pretty solid and well-oiled at the moment and all my energy is going into my business and work Creations. No, I'm like fully Because we're as a family. We're really not we don't really go into like a real stagnant place ever. Nice. I've like joked around. It's like I'm just like tearing my skin off like Rod just like another mother layer that's part of your morning routine. Just how exactly tear my skin off every day. So, you know, I'm always working with in my personal life and my community and My the mentor teams and you know, acquiring new schools and building more more Mentor teams, and those guys a lot of them are friends. And so deepening in my own friendships and Brotherhood and inviting men that are in my local community to just like go deep in when we're not in circle to be real and to talk about things that are real for them. That was that my my I don't know. I guess I don't need to say it in that way, but sometimes I'm in conversations with other men, and I'm like Not going to be here for long, you know like this still like this. There's still a lot of the old way happening. And so yeah, I mean all everything all systems are go right now, you know as far as like fully showing up for my family takes all my resources fully showing up for Boys to Men takes all my resources fully showing up to birth this new thing of well, the warden wise online has been birth and now to now to birth the facilitator Experience and then how that all be worked is is like requiring all my resources. So it requires that I stay grounded in my practice and then I get a nature and that I do breath work everyday and I take care of my my physical tissues and I look at what I'm eating and I make space to connect with my brothers and I make space to like play my ukulele and singing Because it puts me in my heart and I've been really ritualizing. I'm making offerings in almost every morning up to Nature and to my life well ancestors and to like really dropping into that practice more deeply I feel like I'm I'm just connecting more of with more of like my My trust beyond my like real personalized local physical experience and like more connection with with this this whole super that we're in the Unseen the unsane support that is always there when we when we tap into it yet philia. Yeah, so beautiful. Yeah. I mean all systems are go home. Amazing online amazing beautiful man. I just want to acknowledge you perfer. The man you are the work you're doing continuing to show up have the impact and what really inspires me about you is the focus on Numero Uno first and the home base and making sure that comes for the Riders you're doing and exploring your purpose. It's a tough balance and I see you in the short time. We've known each other as somebody who it's really inspiring the way that you that you do balance or find harmony with that. So, yeah, I just want to acknowledge. For that moment. Thank you brother. I really I really appreciate I really appreciate that. It's good medicine. Mmm, beautiful and and where can listeners find you where you at website so shows yeah, how can people get in contact and follow along and follow the Wild and wise Evolution and then get amongst it if they feel cold. Yeah. Well Instagram, I'm at Wild underscore and underscore wise Or you can also look up Trevor spring. I'm on Facebook. I'm Trevor spring which I'm actually not on Facebook a ton these days. I just kind of overwhelming to me. Yeah. My website is Trevor spring.com cool, and I'm also on the sacred son's website through you know information about me and online course in the facilitator training is ends up now. So yeah, you don't know. Yeah, and so yeah, I guess that's the main way I was going to drop into something else. But yeah, yeah no eyes and I'll put all those links in the show notes as well. So people can ya can come in and follow along and like I say, I know you've got a wild and wise online dropping January the facilitator training in March. So there's plenty of plenty of opportunity to come and taste it the Wild and wise medicine and get amongst it. Yeah. Yeah, and actually I had it in the first And whereas Iran maybe four months ago. I had a man from Australia from Nikon Adelaide in and it was just just cool. There's like a guy in Brazil and a guy in Australia a guy in New York and guys on the west coast and guys in Hawaii and it's just amazing to drop in them that way and yeah, so then the next one was online is early January that's going to six weeks of like Movement breathwork Lifestyle Changes, you know, quitting quitting all the things like Like quitting or or looking at things like alcohol pornography sugar smoking, you know, and then supporting each other through looking at those things and engaging our are higher selfishness that to say. Yeah. Nice one. Yeah. I love it. Beautiful. Awesome man will all yeah. I'll put all those dates in the show notes and yeah much love man. Really appreciate you taking the time I know time is precious. And yeah, I appreciate you taking the time to sit down and have a conversation and share the love. Yeah, thanks da. Liang's great to drop in there that I can't wait till we get to do this in person. Yeah, I'm sure if it's yeah, who knows? Let's March let's let's put the Vibes out for my heart. And if not Marshall be after you gotta be. Yeah. Yeah, and I know it'll be it'll be a big ask if Kaitlyn can hear me now. She's like what's happening in March? Yeah. So yeah big love man, and I will chat to you soon Hey Brother. And that is a wrap. Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Trevor. Make sure you go and follow him on Instagram wild underscore and underscore wise get around him. He puts out good content. And yeah, I'm excited to see you see where things go with wild and wise in 2020 big thank you for everybody who has had headed over to the podcast app and left a review. So these things go, awry. Really long way in helping us get this message out get this podcast into the ears of more people. So if you haven't yet take 15 seconds to do it now head whatever app you're listening to this on head over pause head over give us a review now really really appreciate it. And if you know of any men that could benefit from listening to this conversation send this podcast to them either send them the link or just screenshot it share it in your stories on Instagram. Make sure you tag Trevor and myself and yeah. Any help get this message out there because it can really change the game for somebody so that's a wrap guys and just a reminder any guys out there. If you're not already you can head over and join the conscious locker room Facebook group where we just sort of continue the discussions that come up in amongst the podcast. So that's just at facebook.com forward slash the contras locker room, or you can find the link to that through my bio on Instagram. And if you're feeling the pull to get into some of this embodiment work and really have some clothes accountability close support in that process then hit me up. Let's jump on the phone have a Clarity call and see if some one on one coaching coming into 2020 is going to be beneficial for you. And until next time be well guys, and this is the O'Connor.
This was an insightful and inspiring conversation with Trevor Spring, the founder of Wild and Wise, a Men’s archetypal embodiment experiential workshop and Wild & Wise Online, an online course of Health, Breathwork and Brotherhood. Specializing in emotional, primal embodiment and the underlying states of health required to house mature masculinity, Trevor has spent the last 17 years working deeply as a holistic health and movement coach. Men’s work was beginning to feel heady, conceptual and based in story...full of important brotherly connections but like a support group for keeping things the same and just surviving within the existing paradigm. So Trevor began his process of experimentation. We discussed the importance of embodied practices that keep us connected to our physicality and the limitations of trying to deal with things from purely the mind/talking about it. Trevor gave a great overview and insight into the different masculine archetypes and how we can use them as a powerful self awareness and development tool. He spoke about the birth of Wild and Wise and the medicine that this offers the men who step into that space. We also touched on the challenges that present themselves during the transition to fatherhood, conscious relationship as an initiation for growth and evolution, and the importance of honouring that natural cycles and phases of life. This episode was deeply insightful and I can guarantee there will be more that one significant take aways for you. Enjoy! Be sure to share this episode with a friend, take a screenshot and share it on instagram and tag Trevow and myself! 