This is Tom Vargo lettuce with a full time real estate photographer podcast episode 28 today. I got the chance to have a podcast listener on the show. His name is Logan and Logan actually reached out to me one day on Instagram. And at the end of the episode. I'll tell you how you could reach out and ask similar questions. If you've got any Logan and I we got to jump on a call the audio quality is actually much better than your average phone call. He was able to record the audio on his end and send it over to me so I could mix them together. It might sound like we're both in the same Studio like previous episodes, but Logan actually was calling in from his home over in Nebraska. We get to talk about how he got started in real estate photography how he found the full-time real estate photographer podcast and book and he even used these ideas to kick off his photography career and now he's got Photo shoots out in Nebraska. So let's hear it from Logan. My name is Logan Elliot. I am the owner/operator of yellowness Photography LLC in North Platte, Nebraska. Nobody ever knows where that is. So as a point of reference North Platte is about 4 hours West of Omaha and about four hours East of Denver. So that puts us basically smack-dab in the middle of a cornfield. Awesome. Solo gig. When did you get your start in real estate photography so out of been about eight ish months ago, so Pretty new to the game. Just now how I kind of started is actually my wife is a real estate agent here in town and kind of getting familiar with the business of real estate and I was looking at a bunch of pictures and things like that because we were actually at one point. I'm looking to buy a home here and I was looking on the MLS and I was like man these photographs just aren't the best. I'm thinking, you know, and it's not like we don't have decent inventory here in terms of like high-end properties. We kind of do there's some nice homes and things like that, but just the the A graphs were just not very good. So I thought to myself, you know, I think I could do this. Okay, he's at least to this level if not a little better. So that's kind of why I got into it. Excellent. You know, it's so funny that you mentioned that I have a kind of a similar story when I got my start in real estate photography. Do you have a photography background? No, I don't. I've always been interested in like cameras and photography and stuff. I had a couple buddies in college that had, you know decent DSLR cameras, and I kind of had fun fiddling with them and Pushing all the buttons and stuff, but I had I had no idea about any of that, you know? Okay. So this is your first shot. I'd like actually not just learning photography, but you're starting off trying to learn photography as a business too. Absolutely. Yeah. I'm okay. I've always kind of had a entrepreneurial part I think and this is my first run with my own business. So really then that's been a lot of fun. So that's exciting as it stands right now we can get into this a little bit later, but for me, it's part-time right now, okay. The amount of work I've been able to capture at this point. Yeah, so you still get your day job going? Yeah. Well another part-time job. So I split it, you know kind of hours a week and then 20 hours a week to get 40. So okay good that keep up with expenses. So, okay. So you've been officially a real estate photographer for about 8 months you said right? Yes. How did you find actually, how did you find me when you first because you reached out to me right on? That's all we've got talking. So how did that happen? How did you find out about the podcast and everything? Sure. Well, I was kind of just on the information hunt that's was eight months ago when I first jumped in I was just getting as much information as possible on books and in YouTube, I think I just searched real estate Photography in like, you know, the way you do a podcast search engine came up and yeah, I listen to a couple episodes and I was like man this guy is Wheeling and dealing I want to reach out to and so I followed you on Instagram and I hit you up bought your book and then, you know read that and I thought I think in a couple days and that was super super helpful. So that's how I found you and and it kind of talk about a little bit how this business came to be in a smaller town. Is that so North Platte again, I'm going to go back to just a bit North Platte is about 27,000 people. So pretty darn small community compared to a lot of the podcast. I listen to I know you're in a big Market the other podcast I listened to their all on big markets and I just want to let people know that hey if you're in a smaller community and you want to give this a shot go for it. You don't have to be in a big metropolitan area to make some income doing real estate photography. Yeah, and your case, do you travel outside of your town for business as well? Yeah, we have a lot of smaller communities around and I've had a few shoots outside of town but usually the communities that I go to outside of town or like maybe a 5-10 minute drive and I can get anywhere in my crown and about 7 minutes. So that's convenient. It is kind of nice. That's awesome. So so I mean, how is the business going for you right now? You're getting pretty consistent work. Do you know how many shoots you're getting per week or per month? Yeah, so it's heating up. Thankfully it was kind of slow going at first just because I kind of offered my products and I did a lot of work for my wife and showed kind of other real estate agents in her office via like Instagram and Facebook. Hey, this is what I kind of do but it didn't really sink in until I actually went to the real estate offices and made those presentations. And that's one thing that you talked about pretty heavily in. Yes chapter 4 of your book you kind of outline building your portfolio how to do that. You have some Scripts Your book about how to communicate over the phone and in person when you're making those presentations, yeah, that was super effective. Yeah, I think honestly that is the best way to get clientele. If you can just get in front of them show them your offerings show them that you're personable your easy to work with you show up on time and just make an appearance make a good appearance, you know, that's the beauty of your clientele and that's when my business started picking up was after I made a couple of those offers presentations and people realize that I wasn't just I don't know I was I don't wasn't something for some blast email. So a lot of photographers will work almost exclusively on referrals and that's a great way to Build Your Business Without Really having to lift a finger. I'm getting new clients every month. No matter what I have clients now because I have some photographers out working for me. I have clients that I've had for like a year. I've never met them or talk to them in person, but there were a referral from a referral and then they just booked online and and the business can grow slowly like that. But if you want to actually make a move like a big move and you want to get a lot of clients that face-to-face interaction is so huge and very few. You Real Estate photographers are doing that. I got an email because I'm also a licensed real estate agent in Massachusetts. I got an email the other day and it was just one of those standard Hayworth photography company. Come check us out. We do this great awesome job, and there was no to field it was just a my emails in the BCC field. Mmm. So they did they probably bought a list of like 10,000 emails and then just put them all in the BCC and blasted and you know, maybe they get a couple people out of that but imagine like you were in front of how many I saw it. So you did a couple office presentation so far you said how many did you do just to right now is to and did you get clients out of either of those both of them? Absolutely. I signed up pink to shoots after each presentation on the spot. So that was kind of fun. What do you know? Yeah. That was pretty cool to like Let It Go, I mean that's a good Tesla to of just like, you know your processes go get a client after you present and I know that's scary, but I'm telling you if you do it just be like, hey at the end of the presentation I have openings whatever likely account or down and Of the agents and then let him pick a day and I booked it and maybe in bukit. Yeah, another kind of scary but it totally word that you know to get that that first client going that first appointment and then repeat business from there. So yeah and out of those two offers presentations. I've I've had ac45 consistent real estate agents that produce enough to keep me busy week to week. I've had work every week since I've made this presentation so freely, which has been really nice. That's awesome. That's great. It was it was pretty fun just to kind of You know follow a process and then have it produced for you. Yeah. Yeah, it's so simple and and just off of that you immediately and I talked about it in the book I talk about in the podcast. I'm like you do your presentation. Do you talk to people and you ask them for an appointment? And a lot of people like I have the exact same experience a lot of times I'll walk into a new office and a couple people will say. Oh, yeah, I got something coming up or someone will say. Oh can I can I book it or I booked online and when I get to that point in my presentation, I'm like and you can book online. Does anybody have a photo shoot? Want to get in the calendar right now and sometimes I can actually go through and book someone they're alive to show everybody how easy it is to just great. You don't have to know anybody. You don't have to be like this big player and have a million dollars worth of gear and a thousand years worth of experience. You can do a good job and you can get clients just like that. Yeah. Are you alright shown up. Are you following up with people after those presentations? Yeah, so I will kind of send a contact or an email to some of The clients that I got information from just following up if they didn't book and sometimes that pans out sometimes they just don't have a listing in the tank. Yeah, that's one of the assumptions that wrong assumptions that I made going into this. I was like in my small town I grew up here went off to college and came back. But you know, I you see a lot of real estate signs just because the town's kind of small and yeah just driving around everything. I thought, you know houses move quickly here which they do but there's only so many so right We my assumption was that a lot of agents are many agents do a lot of deals or do a lot of transactions and that's just not a No-No. Yeah, fortunately. Yeah, there's only a handful of agents in our entire town that do, you know multiple isms a month and that was one of my wrong assumptions. But yeah. Yeah to capture those that's high producing real. That's right. Yeah, the hype reducing agents. Those are the ones you really want to keep happy. because so if you've got one or two high-end agents that are just hustling and and and you know, their business is blowing up even in a small town you find that, you know, certain personality types tend to dominate The Marketplace and and you know, each kind of area is going to have a different person like you don't have to be like like some some Wolf of Wall Street crazy salesperson to get a really good business, but you know, if you can find those really high Individuals and then you can you know get build a relationship with them. You're going to notice that a lot of like like let's say you got a real estate office and there's two agents that have you know, a very good income off of their real estate business and then there's maybe ten other people in the a in the office maybe more that you know, they're just doing it casually or kind of struggling if you can get that high producing agent as a client. Everybody else is going to call you to because what They see someone who's really successful. Everybody wants to copy them. So yeah, that's that's that's something that you really want to focus on those agents that are going to keep bringing you, you know weekly monthly business and then and then the other people will definitely follow. Do you have a number like how many shoots are you getting per week off? Just those two presentations? Yeah. So right now it's probably about 2 to 3. It just depends you in our Market. It's yeah sometimes Or but like I said, it's just kind of the more work. I do the more the phone rings, which has been really nice. Yes. So like I said, I've been doing this for like since about eight months, but like honestly, I didn't start my presentations until like the beginning of summer because I just been working with my wife and things like that and just trying to learn the process but really because I have so well like April May something like that. Yeah. Yeah, so it's been it's been a decent take off. But like I think I'm just starting to get into more appointments which has been really really helpful. Can I talk about a little bit the challenges that I've kind of face, please do I'll tan he's dead. I found it just really interesting. So one of the challenges that I experienced was just obviously The Limited supply of high producing agents we talked about but that I was I was the first mover into the market. I was the first person to bring real estate photography into our Market. I'm the only one that does it right the only one l sound only one in the whole town. I'm the only one in the whole region that does it. Honestly the only person I could find other than other than me was I had to go all the way to Lincoln which is like three hours East of our town really I couldn't find anybody with an online presence. So I guess that brings me to one of my challenges was was pricing then. Cuz I had no idea how to price it because everybody that I talked to a read about was like how do you base your pricing way? You look at your competitors or the other people that are doing these the same thing in your Market, but I had no one so I went over to this guy's website online and Lincoln which is a about it. It's a city of about two hundred and seventy-five thousand people in case the state capital and I looked at that guy's pricing and I was like man, I don't think agents in our are you going to pay for that? So I got a ref rough Estimate on what I should charge and then kind of reduced it back a little bit based on the economy of our town. So that was one challenge but kind of figured that out. It's kind of ever touch and go there for a little while had to make some some price changes, but it is charged enough to where it's definitely worth my time now, which okay thing that's good. That's good. And I charge fairly High out the gate but I just didn't get a huge response didn't get a very good response with that. So I had to kind of wind it back just a little Lil Bit but that's okay. Okay, did you so so you started high and then you got like no bookings at all or did you get some feedback? Yeah a little bit of both, but I think honestly that impart maybe was just because it was new and people didn't understand it and I didn't have enough materials to maybe justify that pricing right now, but I feel I had more than enough have enough, you know images that I can show. Hey, this is how Works is why it's this much and they're like, oh, yeah, I get it. Yeah, but initially, I think I didn't have that stuff kind of lined up and that's maybe why I got a little kick back got ya you really want to have an airtight presentation, you know, like like just the look The feel the pricing it all has to kind of mesh. Well in order for people to say, yeah. Definitely we're working with you, but you know that that's great. So I did do a podcast on on pricing your work and I It talked about competition, but I also talked about you know, it's a different method was to figure out what you wanted to make an hour or a year and then figuring out how many photos should it. Did you kind of try and go through a process like that? Or was it really just feeling out? Yeah, I should honestly because that would make everything a little more organized. Yeah like but I haven't done that. Yeah, because I didn't know if this is going to be a pull a full-time gig Full-time job right now, depending on how much de man I had so I didn't really I didn't organize that and it turned out to be a part-time position right now. And yeah, which is fine. But yeah, I haven't done that. Yeah, but one other challenge that I did face and I think this is probably a more pertinent piece of information for anybody that wants to do this in a small town is the being that first mover you have that first mover Advantage, right? That's what they taught me in business and business courses. Yes. Yeah being the first to arrive to A market with the product means you enjoy the you know additives of no competition. But what I found is that is wasn't the case here. I had to really explain the benefits of real estate photography because I was competing with No the cell phone and to me a lot of the agents. They just didn't really understand the benefit of real estate photography with lighting and and you know doing the proper post processing and things like that to capture the home and that was I think the biggest challenge and still the biggest challenge that I face today because are in my town a lot of agents are kind of older which is completely fine. I have two of my hype reducing agents are older. You know, yeah the binational the national average is 52 year old female. Okay. Yeah, that's so probably about where some are a lot of them fall. That's I mean older in my town. So yeah. Yes. Yeah them out here. We're in a huge Marketplace. It's the same. It's the same thing in Massachusetts in Boston. Yeah, so crafting your presentation. I feel like if you're going to do this in a smaller Community, which I again, I think you totally should if you have an interest in it. Really explaining, you know the benefits of what your equipment can do versus what a cell phone can do and I feel like that really opened up. A lot of people's eyes to the benefit that this provides for them and their business. Yes. Yeah, if you want a really good exercise for the for this exact issue. Was it last some at some point last year? I forget when but I bought a it was a cold shoe mount. Mount for my camera and and it had a I put a little cell phone holder on it. And so every time I set up a shot. I had my phone right exactly where the camera was. I took a photo with the phone and then I took the photo with my at my camera the way that I do it and then I for a few presentations I use them as a side by side comparison some like this is your iPhone photo and then this is the actual Like real estate photography professional photo and you get a lot of oohs and aahs because you know you have basically the same exact composition, but just because you control the lighting so much better, you know, the room almost looks totally different. It just looks fabulous that might be worth. I think the cold shoe thing was like was like seven dollars something like that. Nice. Yeah. I think I heard you say that somehow either podcaster in your book, but I did that for my future. The presentation. Yeah, and it was it was funny to watch like the the faces in the room. They're like, okay cell phone pictures. Like I know I got I see those I take those or whatever and then they see what I do in the same exact position and location in the home and they're like, whoa, that's crazy. Right? It's yeah, it's such a big dip. It's like it's almost not fair to do that because it makes it look so exaggerated as to the Quality sitting at next to just a regular eye. On photo but yeah it really that that is how you solve the answer the question of like wow, I can take photos on my phone or my my aunt nephews best friend from school has a camera and they do my photos for 50 bucks and it's like well and you do that a few times to yeah, yeah or once actually but yeah, so I guess a couple other things too. That's good for challenges. But I think a couple things that I've done that I can think it really kind of get your business going in a smaller Community are a couple things that you can actually give the real estate agents that book appointments with you. And one of those things is I call it the yellowness photography photo book, but basically all it is is a very trimmed-down version of your maybe online portfolio. Or if you have a bigger printed one that you don't hand out to people to keep anyway, so it's just I have it here in my hands right now. And it's only I think six or seven pages and all it is is a little flip book printed on some glossy paper that I had done at a local print shop for I think like two bucks a piece pretty cheap. Awesomely awesome and I give these to the agents and has all my marketing materials and then they they take this to listing appointments to show. Yes potential assisting clients. Hey, This is the photographer that we use here some of his work. This is how we can showcase your home and professional light yada yada and that kind of secures your position a little bit as well because it has your brain does and it's like, well I presented this product. I better deliver this product to the home, you know, so exactly yes. Yeah that's been a super cool thing and people love them like you show and it's interesting about this digital age. I feel like we're almost getting to the point where we're immune to like cool digital products. It's and just go with me here because like I showed them the same pictures that were in this book online like in my presentation or on my phone or on iPad and they I get okay, that looks pretty neat. I hand them this this is a tangible thing and they they they they look at it with more more time and more intention. They the reactions I get are much more of excited sort. So I think there's just some power and like having a physical good that you can offer your And that they can show to their clients that adds value to everybody's business. So maybe maybe that is a good thing to take away is absolutely is what gave you that idea to do the printed portfolio. Well, I think initially it was that part of the book chapter like four or five talking about the the presentations and how you actually have, you know your copies there too as well. Just I mean, I think that was more so out of a back-up plan if technology was not working well or whatever you had your fullest hopefully there but yeah, I kind of took that idea and I was like, I don't have the really the money or the portfolio to fill up a big book. So I just made this little eight sheet, you know. A page but yeah, sickly. Yeah, you know what mine isn't that big? I have a lot of photos I could use but mine is only mines probably ten pages and I usually have like one or two photos per page. Ok, so I don't even eat. Yeah. I just picked like like, you know the most popular images that I have and then a couple examples of like so Logan are you doing are you doing floor plan? So you doing video are you doing virtual tours or what? You're just offering photos? Sure, not just photos right now. And that was one of my questions. I guess. I'm trying to expand and just offering some other products. So I do just normal Stills daytime and Twilight shoots. I offer pole aerial photography. Yes. So I just I have a painters pole. I got at Menards for 20 bucks. I have an adapter that I put on there. I got it on Amazon for like $30 and I can raise my camera up to about Seen the 18 feet, I believe and and and get those kind of aerial photographs of buildings that are you know to story whatever this one story doesn't really make sense. But with two story buildings, it gives a much more like level shot. So I offer that as well position. Yeah, absolutely. So I offer that as well and then I do I do video. Yeah, so I just got into that. I took your advice out of your book again and got a basically a mechanical Steadicam. It's a fly King red or a flycam red King. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I like it I do and I've been doing video walkthroughs and exterior videos and things like that and that's been a fun learning curve as well. I actually found that after kind of learning the process for photo. The video is easier. Yeah, almost it almost is yeah. I mean if you wanted to get to like a super high and video production, it gets kind of complicated when you're were sheriff with hot lights and An audio and stuff but Jeb for just your basic real estate video. It's it's a no-brainer. What do you what do you what do you using right now using the same camera for video and stills or do you have two cameras? Yeah, I ball on a budget here Tom honestly. So yeah, I squeeze a lot of utility out of this little it's a cannon 800 D. I'll but what is that? Basically it's the same model as a t7 i except for its the European model. And the only reason why I purchased that one because it was like literally 200 bucks cheaper on eBay just because it was an awesome European model but it says t7, I same thing. So it's a little crop sensor camera. And yeah, I have a Canon 10 to 22 wide angle lens and it's like the EFS one, which I bought secondhand on eBay. And then I have a big it's a 500 watt. UND mono light it's a vision and it's a vision five. Okay for wireless flash that I just carry around and then you know you ever do everything from there. I don't job and it does the job. Yeah, and it's you know for what I paid for. I've you know more than made all of that investment back a couple times. So it's been it's been good equipment. I don't have Yeah, I don't really have anything right now that I don't use which is great. I hate you know buying equipment that you don't use. Oh my God, tell me about it. Yeah, it's worse. Yeah, I do offer photos and videos one thing that I am interested in about but haven't I guess got the stuff yet is drone work and I was going to ask you and I can ask you right now. What do you think is is more valuable to the market the market being real estate photography. And imagery and video stuff. What do you think is more valuable. Is it drone work or is it like interior video from the ground? Yeah, you know what that's going to depend on client on a client to client basis. So okay. I mean if you've got if you're pretty confident in your sales skills, you can make it matter. So so you can if you get yourself a drone and you know, you get all the proper licensing and than you Just stir it and everything and you go out on your presentations. You could really you know, say spend an extra five minutes on just drone how amazing it is and look at these incredible drone shots. I don't know if you knew or thought about this, but you can also take Twilight photos with a drone as well, you know, because the cameras on a gimbal it's super stable. You can do like half second exposures, maybe even a little bit longer. Yeah, usually when if I'm if I'm Getting a drone Twilight done. I'm usually having them take like 50 different exposures. So just so I know that I'm safe. But yeah, you can you can do that. You're not able to use a flash. I tend to use Flash more and more as I'm doing Twilight's but that's also something you can do. So so yeah, you know if you're in a market place and it seems like you are where people aren't really even using it. I mean you can make it important like you can say hey for an extra x dot There's you can get this incredible result and if you sell it, right, you know, people will buy it interior video interview videos same thing and you're going to find over time that some clients will say no matter what I want you to do video for every single listing that I call you out on and then someone will say, you know, I don't care about video. I want you to do drone and every single listing that I call you out on some will say, you know, I maybe I'll do it for this one, maybe not and then some will say no to both of those. Never doing that. So it's going to depend on the personality of the person you're working with the price point of the listing. I mean, if you find that you've got a lot of higher-end listings for your Market, whatever that means if it's a half million million 10 million dollar whatever if you've got plenty of high-end real estate to shoot adding a drone would be really helpful. I find that when the marketing budget is what you when there's a lot more Commission on the line agents are willing to spend Little bit more and and they want to produce a little bit more especially and I talked about this a lot agents are desperate to differentiate themselves against their competition which are other real estate agents and you know, a lot of people are they really feel like if they could just get an edge that their business would do so much better. So if you can offer more those agents that want to be hyper competitive or who are willing to spend more money. Yeah, they're going to they're going to buy the whole suite at they're going to do video. They're going to do drone and everything. Nice when it comes to when it comes to pulling the trigger when it comes to you saying, okay. I am I'm taking out my credit card. I'm buying the Drone or whatever. I would first take a look at your business right now and say, you know, is there anything that I can do to improve what I'm doing right now without having to buy more stuff, you know, because the because like the more stuff That you buy that's a bigger investment. You said you already made your money back two or three times a lot of entrepreneurs not just photographers. Well, you know a lot of people they'll start they'll get started. They'll make some money and then they'll just be like, holy shit. Look I just made all this money. I'm gonna get this I'm gonna get that and it's going to be so much better and they start spending it, you know, if you hit us a slope point and you know the summer we're just getting into it right now, but say like Late fall getting to the winter. So your business dies right off. Do you want to have money in the bank or do you want to have credit card debt than money, you know if your business stops if your business stop next week like, you know, so I would say, you know, maybe if you can all but guarantee a certain volume of business or you know, if you're really confident on your skills and selling it I would say yeah go for it right now, you know because if you can You can get out there redo your you know, you can call his people back his and and get another presentation at the same office be like, hey next time you guys get a sales meeting. I get this brand new offering, you know, hot off the presses of really want to show you guys. Let me buy you some pizza or something. Yeah, or however you want to do it and then get in there again. And then as you go through future presentations, you can you can continue to push it and then you get people that will book The yeah, I think that definitely Thanks. That was really helpful. Yeah, kind of weigh my options there one other thing too. I wanted to kind of touch on and I don't know if you do some stuff like this or not, but I was scratching my head trying to get more people to like like my Facebook page and follow me on Instagram and and just get a bigger audience for social media because I feel like social media is the marketing way of the world nowadays. So why not leverage it right? So the first challenge I arrived to as just getting people to see my stuff and growing my pages. So I tried something out and I think the benefits are definitely to fold and what it is is I call it the small business Spotlight and I do the small small business Spotlight once a month and all it is is I go to a small business here in town and I say hey, I'm a real estate photographer. This is some of the work that I do want me to can I do a photo shoot? For you for free. And with the only catch I guess is that you know, you you share it on your social media pages and give a shout out to my page. That's it and all the business owners that I've talked to you that I've asked about this to like absolutely. Let's go like this is fantastic. I'll send us ya created some serious social media buzz like once they receive the photos and they put it up and then they mention me like my page grew overnight. It was wild to watch some of these posts just take off. If you're someone that you know wants to grow your pages get a hold of some some small businesses in your in your town or community that maybe you know have a decent presence or decent following already just for doing whatever they do and you can make it super personable to which is the next thing that I'd like to do is do like short interviews video interviews about you know, why they got into business how they got into business and and kind of just, you know offer that as well. So yeah, I'm providing it to them. Yeah, you know I would even look I won't even charge to the video honestly, so but but actually so what's funny is you get a I don't think I wrote about this or talked about this in a podcast yet. But when I was full time in real estate, I would do that exactly that I would offer interviews and I would write a blog article and I would take a video and then I would share I don't know if you can even find it now it's from forever ago, but I got so many sales out of that and I you know, like some of these people are front like because the key is not just doing interviews the key is that you're talking to people that know a whole lot of people you're talking to people that have a big presence you're offering something you're offering them something that they like and that they're interested in and you know, you get to know people they're going to like you they're going to see your work and they're going to be able to stand behind it. When they say oh, yeah, you know, you gotta call Logan he does a great job. Yeah to I would make that a weekly habit. If you if you could I would try every week to meet someone to do the spotlight. I mean do your Spotlight offer an interview and then you know, maybe yeah, maybe you'll have to do a few for free and then start charging later on when people start seeing like, oh, wow. I'm getting all this traction on this exposure at once once you become that page the one You become that presence that that people are like liking a falling everybody in town sees your page and and they like to see your spotlights and and you know, then you could probably start charging for it. But yeah, you're definitely doing the right thing there, you know, the it's all about relationships making really it's really fun to do, you know because it's fun to see Zero smaller businesses in town, you know receive these photos and they're just like floored and they loved it, you know, and it's it helps them out there Google listings look a lot better and you know, they share it on there. A personal Facebook page and it's it's fun to just give back a little more value to the community and that's kind of why I like to doing that but it has gotten me now in communication with some bigger commercial jobs, which I will charge for sure. So yeah, that's kind of a neat thing. But I just was wondering, you know kind of what your take was and that's good stuff. I love that so Yeah, yeah to it's a great idea. It's a great idea. Yeah, I don't do it I do and I'd haven't done that for my photography business specifically like interviewing people, but I actually I am that you're doing and I probably should huh a little cheese a cake Islamic a get left behind no more flash. Now are you know what really you could I mean that's the beauty of the internet like you can have a huge influence and You know you work on your product you make some more money. You're going to get better equipment you're going to get better at you know, producing some just fabulous images and videos and I mean, who knows you might find that people are going to pay you not just for the job. They're going to pay you for your mileage to go out to the to the big city or maybe your airfare I charge mileage outside City Limits, but you know like a nerd IRS mileage. But yeah, I do sweet Tom. I had another question for sorry. Go ahead. Yeah. He's Sure. No. No, what is interesting kind of snare happened, especially early on a few months ago and I first kind of dip my toes in the water here, but it was on a I think is my third may be paid shoot and when I say paid, I mean I was wondering for my wife for free, of course, you know Wellness AI she was getting paid and I work for her anyway their commission, right? So yeah. Yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah. So I have an agent approached me and we were talking kind of during the shoot and she was asking me a bunch of questions, which is fine. Like I don't mind that and one of the questions was, you know, where did you go to school for this and I told her you know, I didn't I didn't go to school. I learned via books and YouTube and just kind of trial and error and didn't really say anything after that, but I thought Like a price reduction because I wasn't I mean she's like, how are you a professional? Oh my god. Well, I just just took me back there. That's it was like well, you know when you were this is my quandary here though. It's like when you are the only person offering a service the and I'm not trying to be like cocky or anything. But I you know, I'm the best I offer the best product right now, right at what point do I become professional? I don't know. You know professionalism is such an intangible thing. You could call it. Whatever you want. You could say I'm a professional because I wear a suit you could say I'm a professional because I'm the industry expert or because I just show up every day for work. Like it's professionalism is more of an idea and and the, you know, a collection of behaviors that people kind of expect of you. So what you need to so this is an interesting problem and and it's in there's an easy solution because when someone is asking you those questions those qualification questions, they're not asking you, you know, did you go to school for this? Because they really care that you went to school like, oh you have to go it's not like you're an attorney and what did you go? Did you go to some some Cheapo law school? You didn't even have to pass the LSAT test or did you go to Harvard or or something like that? It's a question of do you know what you're doing? And the answer is obviously always going to be yes, but the answer doesn't have to be well, no, I didn't go to school. But you know, I learned this thing you can confidently just answer the question of oh, yeah, I know what I'm doing, but but not the way that they framed it because as long as you are dressed they're concerned. They're like, okay good. So I had this problem when I first started the lot of people would say like, oh, where'd you learn this? Did you go for school for this? You know, and I still got those Those questions now and occasionally and my answer is always the same I say well, you know, I actually get started in real estate photography as a real estate agent or I might say, you know what I actually get started in real estate photography because you know, I've always been a hobbyist. I've been studying it for years and I'm just so passionate about doing this I decided you know, I was going to get into the real estate space, you know, you might even say in your specific case. Actually, you know, my wife is a real estate agent. All time real estate agent and she does a lot of business. I've been doing a photo shoot. So I've been studying photography, you know, and I've just doing such a great job lately that you know, I've been getting more and more referral business and that's how I get started. So so you're answering the question by almost your mr. Rest misdirecting specifically the question about education, but there are asking about education because they don't know what else they don't know how to say, do you know what you're doing? You know and a lot of people even if that's what they're thinking they're not going to say. Do you know what you're doing? Because it's going to come off as rude. So they think well, you know, it's photography. I've heard about photography school. Maybe maybe I'll ask about that and then and then you know how you handle that question is going to you know, put them at ease or is going to kind of alert them to say. Oh, maybe this guy doesn't know what he's doing. So yeah, if someone liked it when I get asked that That's how I answer. I'm like, oh, you know I and that's how you should answer to it. You know, what did you go to school for this? Well, you know what? My wife is a real estate agent. I've been doing photo shoots for her for a while. I'm super passionate about photography of been doing just this great job with with agents and and you know, that's how I got my start into it and if they really want to push and they want to say well, what's your school? What did you learn? You can just you can name drop because because it's going to make you sound kind of official and and they're not going to know either way. So you can say oh, you know, I studied under under Rich bomb, but you watch Rich bombs YouTube videos. Probably you listen to his podcast. You've got my book you've read that so you can say oh, you know what I studied under a rich bomb. He's a he's a photographer out in California. Does these high-end high-end jobs, you know studied under Tom Barr Gillette has he's got this great training on you know, And you can tutor mention the book and and that I that's probably going to put them out. Okay. Well, I have your permission to yeah Acclaim you as my mentor then right? Sure. Yeah. You're welcome. I mean, hey, you're read the book. It says no, no reason not to mention it. If I mean, you don't have to go around like, you know, like some crazy person. Like I read this book that means I'm an expert out of the blue, but if someone really presses I would save that. That as like as you know your fallback answer if they're if the whole you know, my wife's an agent. I've been doing photo shoots for her. I've been working professionally for a while if that whole thing doesn't really answer the question if they really specifically want to know about schooling which in my case, you know, I've been able to misdirect those questions for you know years. I never directly answer that because I never went to photography school and it's you know, no one's ever. All that up with another question. They just go. Oh, yeah. He's and like he knows what he's talking about adults speak because that's all I care about. You know, that question will be long forgotten after that. You deliver the photos they do. Yeah, I think yeah for sure. They do think they do one of the one of the biggest contributions to my professionalism that you told me about via one of your podcasts. I think it was in one of your first episodes actually that you're talking about what you carry in your car I think for photo shoots, but anyway it was Those booties that you put over your shoes those yeah a lot. Yeah, I'm telling you like I walk into a house. I stopped at the porch and not those booties on I walk in and people are like, oh like that especially if the homeowners are they like freak out like my house isn't Part of Me part of my professionalism. So it's right. It's right. I love that like and it they're so cheap and it's right works and keep everybody's carpets clean. So Oh my God, they're Dirt Cheap other dirt and for those houses that they're like that's actually dirtier inside then you know and your head you can say yeah, that's why I got these ones. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, man, they're Lifesavers. I've when I do my Twilight's I will put the camera I'll use a tripod and sometimes if it's like wet or muddy outside, I'll even I keep a handful of rubber bands in my Pelican case I'll even rubber band some booties onto the tripod legs. They don't get them all muddy. Good one, yeah. Yeah, man, those things are you can use of all even if it's raining and if I'm using like on the pole, how are you tricking your trigger? Your camera apples the Canon Connect app and I just view it either on the iPad or cell phone. So yeah. Okay. So if you if you have a camera or end or a lens that is not weather sealed. I don't know if that camera is but you could also drape you could also drape a booty over the camera as long as it's not, you know in front of the lens, that'll that'll protect it from a little bit of precipitation. I'll do that for some of our lenses or not weather sealed. So I like tape a booty right over I would definitely help for sure. I've been shot and Rain yet thankfully. Yeah a little I guess. Some kind of some dense fog but nothing nothing too crazy. But yeah, it's yeah, it's definitely doable don't say no to a photo shoot ever. I've shot in the rain and in the snow like an active rain this a you have to do a little bit longer exposures and then the snow and the rain kind of disappear and then you just have to do a sky replacement. Sometimes you can get a really cool. Look when you do a sky replacement everything's It kind of has this weird glossy glossy like I'd practice a practice first if you get a rainy day run outside and do some photo shoots or opal sure it snows in the Braska you could do some snowy photo shoots. But yeah, you might be stuck on a to a tripod depending on the length of the exposure unless you got some well I didn't know that. Yeah, I didn't know that the rain if you have a longer exposure it just kind of disappears. So that's really helpful there. It totally does. Yeah, because the Raindrop passes in and out of the frame, you know it in such a short amount of time if you're doing like, you know quarter second half second exposure is it's basically invisible unless it's like so thick that the water is just a water between the lens and the house is like causing these weird like streaky distortions that sometimes sometimes if it's really crazy thick you can't do anything. But yeah lighter to medium rainbow. Ever slowing. I'm yeah another question I guess for you Tom is Zu kind of offer your real estate agents any type of like home prep guide or checklist. We're getting the house ready to be shot. You know, it's that's a good question. I go k I kind of do so it when someone books with me, they booked online and I talked about like how we do that in the app, I use and everything and other episodes. But one of the one of the things that that that is a part of that you get an automated email and 24 hours before the shoot you get a text message that says hey your upcoming shoot is scheduled for this this time and you get an email in that email. Yeah, there's a checklist and and basically my instructions are get the house ready. Okay, like showing ready. Right because you know you want to shoot the house and ideally the condition that is going to be shown in if I show up and they're like, oh, yeah, we're going to fix this. We're going to change the carpets. We're gonna read renovate the kitchen. I'm like, well, why am I here shouldn't we be doing this photo? Shoot after the work is done. Some people say, you know, I don't well we got to get it on the market. We have we can't wait some some will say. Oh, yeah, you're right most most real estate agents that are pretty disciplined. And understand like how the business works are going to tell their clients what needs to happen and and and then, you know schedule accordingly. Ideally that should all be done on their end. But you know a little reminder I wouldn't lean on it. I wouldn't count on that being like the be-all-end-all, you know, well I sent you this reminder. So the house of better be ready you're still going to have you know, because it because in any business you dealing with so many personality types, you're still going to have those people that are just scattered. Brains that are disorganized that you know, the everything's last minute and you show up and like nothing's ready. Everybody's very going to happen is clean, right? It's different. Yeah, I found that to be true is yes, it's very subjective. I tell you kind of what I came up with and maybe this is right wrong or otherwise, I don't know. Yeah, but what I'm talking with my wife You know just in normal conversations, she's kind of expressed to me that you know some sellers it's hard to tell them that their house is dirty, right? You don't want to come out and say hey your house is doing as an agent to your your client. They work with it's not good. Yeah, but I think in all their being genuine about they just they just don't know that's just the way that like I said everybody standard of what is clean I think is different. So I was like, how can I can weee circumvent that Is showing up to a dirty house or not just a house that's not ready to be photographed takes takes the most time away from me. Right because I got to get some stuff moved around and and and do all that stuff as the photographer. So I'm like, how can I make a product or something that kind of helps circumvent this this issue? So I online I searched for okay, like a is actually created by real estate agent, but I'm sorry I hum photo / video. Ation checklist and I have my logo information like I changed quite a bit of it actually, but anyway, it gives you know general cleaning instructions and it's a checkoff list. I mean turn off all TV's check off turn off all ceiling fans check blah blah blah and it goes from General to front exterior Backyard Kitchen dining room living room bedroom bathroom pets Etc. So my thinking in this is is right here is that, you know, if I can hand this to an agent who then can turn that Turn in hand that to the you know, the seller that takes the burden off of the real estate agent of them having to say hey your house is not ready. You need to clean up you need to clean up. This checklist is kind of objective. I guess in a sense that it shifts the burden from the agent to kind of kind of me, but I'm okay with that if it saves me 30 minutes in a house, you know what I mean? And whether or not the yeah, the seller the seller of the home is going to follow that list is completely Up to them, but I just I just found like because everybody standard of what is clean and so different maybe provide them a objective standard that they can follow that's easy to follow check by check by check to get this house ready to go. What do you think Hmm? I like the idea. Are you doing that right now for your art? You're offering that haven't had time to really a bunch of feedback yet. I have one family that they said we followed the checklist is super handy. I'd be happy to provide that to you so you can put it in the show notes or whatever if you want. But yeah, anyway, they said they loved it. Yeah, that's a great idea. Yeah. It's a good idea. I think that yes, um, some people that like checklists. Are going to love it and then you'll probably find some people that don't really care either way, but it's a it's a it's a very low-cost offering that yeah that I mean, I wouldn't say no to that I'd say that's a that's a good little add-on to do if you wanted to do it and then people will definitely like it. And so actually it's a good thing to refer to if you automatically or as a habit always send that out because inevitably you're going to get that listing that was not ready for the photo shoot. Oh shoot. If you ever have a listing agent that is not present for the shoot. I mean in your Marketplace, maybe everybody wants to be present all the time. I know it's like that sometimes in some places in Massachusetts. Sometimes the listing agent just has to be there and and then settled in some cases. They don't care. They're like, yeah talks coach go do it. Yeah great great. So so when that ends in that instance for the yeah, here's the code just go do it, you know, it would be Good to have that to refer back to because if they ever call and complain this a while this wasn't this was messy and I wish that this thing was in there you could say well look at you know, I move what I can but it's my room. It's not my responsibility to keep the house clean. I did send you a checklist that you could have shared with your client and put it on them because yeah, it's in one case. I've had to have like an actual argument with a client over the cleanliness of a listing it. Isn't me one of my photographers was at this house? It was a is a 3 family in Boston and like in Boston Boston and it was being sold as three condos in Boston. If you've ever looked at condos in Boston that prices are outrageous. What was it was being rented as a 3 family by attendant and the Tenant was using each of the condos as an Airbnb and he was making an absolute. Fortune and the landlord was like, oh you're doing this while I'm going to jack up your rent. It's now six grand a month per condo or I'm selling it. So I put this 10 and out of business put them out of business overnight and and then so my photographer is going through the tenant was there and and the Tenant was making the house messy on purpose. I didn't I didn't find out about this afterwards of my photographer. He didn't know what to do. Like the guy would so hits up the camera and the guy would walk in front of him into the room and then like tip things over mess up the bed turned things upside down. So we deliver the photos like that and and the agent was arguing with me and I'm like, I'm like dude like, you know, what the deal is the house needs to be in that condition. We you know, we'll move stuff that we want but It's on you that make the machine ready. And the yeah, yeah, that's probably a one in a once-in-a-lifetime thing. But you know, it really is their responsibility to prep the listing as a photographer. You know, I'll do them a favor of cleaning the house up but you know the busier you get if you don't if you don't really have much else going on. It's not a big deal to take a couple hours, you know to do the the shoot and move stuff around and that's okay and I did use Do that with with clients that you know, we're really good to me and brought me a lot of business. But yeah, I wouldn't make it a habit of here cleaning up after somebody else because it's just gonna you know, it's going to increase your cost of like, you know, it adds more time so that it means you're making less. On that shoot you no more time to make the same amount of money. It should be going the other way. You should be finding ways of spending less time to make more money. So so yeah, check this idea. It's great. It's good idea. All right. Well, I don't I think I've exhausted my list Tom idea proved excellent. Excellent. Yeah, we pretty much covered everything that there is to cover so so Logan are you when you trying to go? Oh man if I can get some more High producing real estate agents and other problems. Our town is actually shrinking Tom, so I don't it's yeah, we have negative shrinking growth. So and basically again, our town is controlled by two big Industries, which is Union Pacific Railroad and our giant hospital that we have two Regional hospital, but the railroad has making some serious changes. So it doesn't it doesn't look good right now for full time. But yeah, really this is going to be is going to be Also, there goes my mic. I don't know what's going to happen there. But yeah, maybe if we get go to a bigger Market or something crazy happens in the real estate market here in town. Yeah full time. It'd be it'd be great. I'd love to work full time right now as a real estate photography. Yeah, but yeah, just don't see it right yet. Yeah, you know, I I imagine it's going to be doable. It might be a little bit more work and you might have to commute a lot more because it seems like there's no big city nearby. Right? What's the biggest population town? That that's close? Yeah. So yeah, we're the greatest but the surrounding communities are like, okay 400 350 like it's tiny itty-bitty places, so G's are Jeez. Yep. So yeah, even I mean even out here in Massachusetts, I will routinely and and just the other day. I've driven out a couple hours one way to do a photo shoot knowing that it's not worth my time, but that eventually I'm going to have so many clients in that area that I can just hire a new photographer local to that that place or in your case. Maybe if you can get your business really booming and And you know, your is your wife. Is she full time real estate agent? Yeah, so, you know if the real estate market takes a big hit she's gonna have a problem to so the both of you might say. Hey, let's move to an area that you know, I mean unless you've got some really strong roots in that town. You just don't want to move if it's a if it's an option for you. Sometimes you just got to go to where your money is unless you don't mind driving sure, you know for hours and hours. I think if I can capture more of those High producing real estate agents here in town with the market. Way it is right now. Yeah, there is a time for potential there. But yeah that by be the next step I guess. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Keep I'd keep plugging away at that work on your portfolio try and get higher and listings, you know do more office presentations. Do you know how many real estate agents found not number of Agents, but I think we have four companies here in town. So yeah for different companies, okay. Yeah, try and I try and do a presentation each of them and then maybe even to some some offices outside of town if this you know more than one or two agents in which case just meet them for lunch or something. But yeah, if you do that, if you if you kind of stay top of mind with these agents, I mean, some of them are just they're never there just never going to call you because they, you know, they just don't want to and then you know, that's fine. They can go do whatever they want. But, you know if you can work on building strong. Long relationships with the clients that you do have in the clients that you will have they're going to be really loyal to you and they're going to call you for every single shoot, you know, so yeah, you might be closer to full time and then you'd think it's just going to take a little bit of that, you know leg work of actually going out and building those relationships. So awesome. So Logan. Do you have any more questions for me - we wrap up. We got it all hammered out. Let me double check my notes real quick. No, I think yeah, we got it all got it all down and Tom. I just wanted to say an extra thankful. I thank you thankful for you for just the content that you produce and just your willingness to help people and you know answer people on your social media. That's super cool. You know, this wouldn't have happened if you did message me back. So that's yeah, that's that's really neat. Oh, man, we that's that's a whole other thing to what do you remember what your first question was? We doing talk about that. It was yeah. Yeah. No, no way. He's gonna lose your question find it real quick. Yeah thousands of pages later said. Hey Tom quit. I have a quick question for you. Do you ask homeowners if you can put up a picture to of their home on social media accounts, or do you have some sort of contract that? Dates you're able to do so love your podcast and great book by the way good stuff. Thank you. So that was the question. Yeah to which I replied very length at a great length. I don't know why I just for some reason. I don't know. I was just really excited about copyrights and and something like that. So so my my answer to Logan's question was in a nutshell. No, I basically just share whatever I want whenever I want unless I'm specifically asked not to but there are some interesting copyright issues. Kind of baked into that question as well as photographers. You are the author of the work of the photo and then you have full copyrights to it unless you sign those copyrights away. So when I really talked about like the legal technicalities of you know, the photo shoot in the invoicing I tell people if they really want to get into it that you know, you're what you're paying for is your licensing these images for you to sell this house and I'm not signing away on my right like I'm holding all of my copyrights outside of that license so I can share this and promote my business as well. Not a lot of photographers really dig deep into the copyright kind of legal space and it it's definitely not for the faint of heart. It's not very user-friendly to like just kind of quickly do some searches. Everybody has an opinion but but Logan I did share to you links to like three blog. About that from some really really good sources. I think I'm going to put those in the notes on the show notes as well. So anybody listening to this episode in the future just just scroll down to the notes and you'll see those links. It's a really interesting question because some people are charging licensing fees and they're getting paid every year on licensing fees for commercial images. Some people are not some people are giving their photos away for free. And you know, I mean we should never really do that. You know, the biggest the biggest scam is people saying well, I'll give you a better exposure but people aren't calling you because someone else shared your images and said look at my listing they're calling you because you contacted them or they were referred to you, you know a photo credit unless you're pumping it and your Really sharing it and connecting it to you directly a photo credit by itself is not going to block your business. Maybe you'll get a couple things out of it. But but yeah, you want to maintain that copyright so you can use your photos and share them if if someone asks me not to share them. So I've shot some higher-end properties, you know, some really big expensive beautiful homes that if I could my entire portfolio would just be one of those but but You know, sometimes people are like no we don't want you to share these publicly. You know, it's a pocket listing. It's going to be kind of under the radar. Can we please keep this under wraps and and you know out of respect to them. I'll do it. I think it's more important to maintain a trusting, you know relationship with the client than it is to just kind of try and pick up my numbers because because in the end in the end, it's more important to me to have more clients instead of a And they yeah, you know people there yeah, very cool. Yeah, you're answering your links were phenomenal know anybody that has that question wants to read at more those the links that he that Tom sent to me were spot-on. So I mean and more. Yeah. Yeah those articles covered it those articles covered it. I think what we're is the I sent you and those links will be in the show about our good one. Yeah. Oh, yeah blog from just steal law on the on the copyright issues blog from an attorney who is also a photographer and a Blog from F Stoppers F diapers.com, which is also a great that's not a paid plug by the way. I just like their stuff if Stoppers is it's a great blog and they have good video photography videography bit videos, too. So yeah, that was that question and I did have as I was talking something popped. Up in my mind again. So so you've been buying used gear? Is that something that was at night idea you had on your own or did you pick that up from web so it's key for a while but reading it in your book as helped. I'm always kind of sketched out when I buy Electronics on eBay used electronics, you know, so cameras and stuff like that. I'm like, huh? I don't know about that. But after reading the sections of your book saying that it's okay to buy certain types of gear second hand. I felt pretty comfortable with it. So I went ahead and did it and everything is A-OK, so Did you did you ever do the math to figure out exactly how much you saved? Oh said you bought a new bra stop my head, but I think on the camera body it was at least a few hundred dollars. And then on that one lens, I think I paid a hundred ninety bucks and that thing still goes for think five or 600 bucks brand-new. So yeah, that's a great deal. It's a great deal. Yeah, I used to I was so proud of myself. When I started doing that. I used to take notes. I think my first photography kid. I saved like five thousand dollars or something like that between all the video gear and just picking it up used and it's really like I can't talk about it enough like some people they don't know what they're doing or they just they just get this random passive interest and like I am maybe I'll do some photography. Rafi they buy a bunch of shit. They don't know what to do with it. They don't use it. And then they're like, I don't want this anymore. Then they'll sell it for for peanuts for peanuts. I've got the we're on a VoIP call right now. I'm calling you with my iMac. I got this iMac. It's it was a couple years old got to 4,000 bucks. These things will usually go for three or four thousand but this guy he bought a brand-new the newest model. He didn't want it anymore. Yeah, I just want I picked it up. So you do it for peanuts, you know? Yeah. Yeah when you save so much you just have more power in your business. You have holding power like you can last if I had bought everything brand-new dude, I'd be scrambling right now. I've be like man, you know, I have a how am I going to pay my bills? But when you have cash in the bank because you're you know, making these shrewd business decisions. It just gives you such. Peace of mind you know that you can just focus on doing your best. You don't have to worry about the money so might I mean, you know, you can worry about money if you want to but but you don't really have to if you're smart with how you spend it and you just have such a you just have a great time. So yeah, it's good. I'm glad you're already an eBay. Junkie, you know, some people the problem is that a lot of people kind of look down on that. They're like, I don't want used someone else's shit. I don't want that and and you know what, that's fine for them. They want to spend An extra 10 grand fine. I mean if money doesn't mean it if money doesn't mean anything to them then they can just go ahead and spend it. It's their money. But but I recommend yeah, if you're in a business, that's the way to go this way to go unless you're making so much. That's me matter. Not yet. Anyway, so yeah, that's very few people. It's almost no one. So I mean they're out there. There's people that you know, they don't care they'll spend those spend $1000 on a dinner. I don't care. But yeah, it's great. All right, I'm glad that we get to talk about that a little bit Logan anything else come to mind. Any last minute. Oh, yes now, I think we I think we got it. Yeah, I forgot about this all my questions were answered. And yeah that's expanded on so that's always great loved it. Awesome. Well Logan that I'm Gonna Let You Go. Thanks so much for taking time out of your morning and it's early morning for me. But I know you're you're on Central Time, right? So it's probably it's probably really early for you right now. I am this morning's that's all right, that's good. That's good. All right Logan. It was a pleasure glad that we got to spend some time this morning and The any other questions anything pops up go ahead and you know, feel free to reach out to me again. Yeah, we'll talk again some other time so much so I can actually have me on all right. All right look and have a good one. All right folks that is the episode. I hope everyone found it informational educational. It's definitely a lot of interesting ideas there and I'm so happy and grateful that I was able to share some information that Logan could actually use in his business and see some pretty incredible results. Anybody can reach out to me the same way Logan. Did you can contact me at Instagram at Tom Vargo lettuce t om V Our GTL ET is I know it's tough on a spell. I apologize. You can also email me. My email address is Tom at FT re photo.com little bit easier to spell if you want to scroll to the bottom of the show notes. You can find my Instagram and email in addition to any questions you might have. I'm also offering personalized coaching, too. Anybody that wants to really build up their business the same way that Logan has done out in Nebraska. Anybody can do it. Anybody can build a successful business. You just need to know how and that's what this podcast that's what the book is all about the full time real estate photographer book. If you're interested in that the links are in the description, but you know, if you're interested in personalized coaching you could call what Logan and I just went through a little bit of a coaching call. It was more of an interview. Style more of you know question and answers if you're wondering about what personalized coaching is, like it's a lot of that and a lot of sharing of ideas helping walk you through all of the steps that you need to take helping you through all of your obstacles taking a good hard. Look at your business trying to see where we can make you some more money and you can always reach out and ask some questions about that if you are interested and so without further Ado I'm going to leave it there. There and if you're a regular listener of the podcast, I apologize for the inconsistent at best upload schedule up until a couple months ago. I've been really consistent about uploading every seven to eight days, but we are in the busy season. I'm actually hiring a couple more employees so I can deal with the extra workload. Like I mentioned we're constantly getting new clients and I've been finding myself getting booked up pretty much sunrise to sunset. With my photographers out on locations not a ton of time to record podcast episodes, but we are not off the air we're still recording and we still will be and I will be trying to stick to the consistent seven or eight day upload schedule. But if we are consistently behind, please don't worry once I have a little bit more help I should be able to free up more time to record episodes. So in the meantime, I look forward to hearing from you hearing your questions. Answering them and I really enjoyed this episode. I'm sure Logan did and I really hope that you enjoyed it as well. We'll leave you that and we'll catch you on the next one.
 On this episode we got Logan Eliot on the phone. Logan called in from Nebraska to discuss how he got started in real estate photography, and how some of the ideas he learned from listening to this very podcast, reading the Full Time Real Estate Photographer book (https://amzn.to/2rrWmmO), and more. Logan started 8 months ago, and is already seeing regular weekly photoshoots after only 2 office presentations! Here are the links mentioned in the podcast for further reading on copyrights over our images: https://law.justia.com/constitution/us/article-1/50-copyrights-and-patents.html https://thelawtog.com/copyright-laws-for-photographers/ https://thelawtog.com/copyright-laws-for-photographers/ Here is a link to see Logan's checklist and his printed portfolio he mentions: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1oI1ovM0vEuJd1EkqDoOGotX3-oJ3ejwH You can find the Fulltime Real Estate Photographer book here In the interest of keeping my gear recommendation section a bit shorter, and sharing even more information than before, I have created a link with https://kit.com/ftre. I recommend that you first see if you can get much of this gear used for a better deal, in which case I welcome you to use the Kit I have set up as more of a shopping list to reference. For the items that you plan on buying new online, using the affiliate links would be a great help toward supporting this podcast. 