Hey guys, Happy New Year. I suppose can still say that because it's definitely still January. I feel that people kind of take the piss though. I've literally had someone say it to me in March. No, but anyway, happy new year new decade. Welcome to episode 20 also the first episode of 2022 incidentally, soTo be honest, it seems like it's been a bit of a count of a start to the year for a whole lot of people and that fucking sucks like half of Australia's on fire. There's potentially going to be World War 3. There's people really close to me in my life who are going through some real fucking hard times right now, and it sucks and I wish there was more I could do. And it makes me feel bad to be honest that nothing's going horrific lie wrong for me almost like I don't really deserve that if that makes sense. Like why is all this awful stuff happening to other really good people, you know, you kind of have almost the sense of guilt that you should be kind of sharing the burden to a certain extent. Thank you saying this to my partner and he's so smart. He was like, well, you know, there's got to be some people who are fine and remain strong for everyone else so that you can be like a good friend or family member or support person or whatever and I was like, you know what that's fucking a hundred percent, right? So yeah, if you want to talk not necessarily for the whole world to listen to but Just in general here. I am on my couch with graham. He's great for a hug. So yeah, keep that in mind, but we've got a guest on for my first episode this year. Now, her name is Nicole and pretty cool story how I met her. So actually when I spoke to her on the phone yesterday she was asking me how I kind of found people to be on the podcast and the thing is is that I don't really like seek people out I saw Of just encounter people in life, and I'm just like you're fucking awesome. So so far. I haven't actually really had to seek anyone out. I feel like I might have to start though because there's only so many people in your life. You can kind of force to be on your podcast before you've got to go further afield. However last year. I reached out to Monash University in line with the work that I do for Monash Council, which is my actual job to create Like a mental health pathway for members of the Leisure centres that I work for and got in touch with Nicole and a couple of other students and they put together like a really awesome seminar for our members on the correlation between physical and mental health which obviously I'm super interested in. Yeah, so Nicole was one of the students but she told really well quite a sad story, but the The way she told it about her own personal experience, which she will share. I'll leave that to her obviously and it really touched me and I think it was because the way that she told it and just how I guess she's kind of used like her struggles and her adversity to pretty much make a career and it's have been her calling her passion. And obviously I find that very cool and very exciting. So yeah. He's so much Nicole for coming all the way over to share an afternoon with me. Welcome. Hi. Thanks so much for having me Sarah. I feel very humbled to be here. Oh, don't be silly. I'm very humbled to have you here. Thank you so much. Have you had a good start to the year start of the yeah. It's yeah, it's a crazy adaptation. You know, it almost takes half the year to start writing 2020 by the time you run start preparing for the next my God. I do that. Yeah, right the old year. So like six is really really good. You just kind of kind of just that your that year. Yeah. Yeah, but it does it's look it's been a sad start to the ideas for I'm country. Yeah percent. Yeah. Hopefully it will pick up after that. So yeah, what can't get worse right? Well, you know, that's how things work. You know things are in a constant state of flux and When they're at the lowest of lows there is nowhere else to go but up and when they have, you know, it's about not being complacent that things sort of stay good and it's just it's about being able to ride the wave and that's what but we all need to do in our personal lives and as a society and just got to keep riding the wave. Yeah, right everybody say yeah. I mean, I do think that it's been it's been really amazing to see how much people have come together and how much support there's been obviously from other countries as well as our own but it's just been quite incredible. We know definitely so, you know, that's and it's something that I think ties into everything but through definitely adversity support networks and just relationships and love it's it will always try like Triumph. It's it's just it's a human need as humans. We need people around us. We need connections we need support and yeah, I guess it's hard as true. It's times like this. Although they do show they give opportunity for that and to facilitate that sense of belonging and sense of unity and solidarity. Yeah. So this obviously probably quite a big part of your work personally as an almost psychologist almost nearly six years later. That's awesome. Dude. Yeah a long haul but yeah, no definitely psychology. Its hopefully it's you know, it really is for coming. I mean, I mean, yeah mental health and that is becoming one of the biggest burdens on our public health system and hopefully yeah, I guess government and that is recognizing the needs for it. And you know, I think you know, my personal five is to try and get some of that mental and physical health on par. Yeah Linda realize that you know, it's yeah, it's so important and yeah, I'll mental mental States it it affects everything so Yeah, it's a really important important profession and it's sort of like a you know, I thought I almost think everyone should study at some point a bit of psychology because it's just about relating to people understanding people understanding why they are the way they are why they do the things they do and yeah, it just helps to give that then understanding it, you know of what it means to be a human being. Yeah for sure. I mean I'd like your thoughts on this to be honest. Like why do you think there's such a need for mental health these days like why is everyone so fucked up? Well, what do you think? I think a lot of it really does have to do with a lot of societal Trends and cultures. Yeah. We've you know, we've made so much progress in many ways, you know in the world and in rights and values, but we've also regressed a lot I think. I think nothing in this world is inherently good or bad. It's how we use it. And that's that's the danger. Yeah and show, you know, even things like something like social media, you know, when landed in the wrong hands or when people aren't educated on Oahu don't actually have the right intentions and reasons for using these things that can go horribly wrong, but I think I think our world is becoming increasingly incredibly impatient. I think we've got a lot Instant gratification in our day-to-day life and we just want things immediately people really struggle to work through things. And I think people just want sort of very much quick fixes. And you know, we're just so used to having everything at the click of our fingers and a demand that people are really lacking almost. Yeah the resilience to overcome things and work through things and with our lives people ironically. I think I'm becoming more lonely in today's world and it links back to to this idea of you know connection and relationships and even though we're becoming more connected on one elements. It is creating a bit of an illusion of what that connection is, you know, I think a lot of people, you know, almost call them keyboard Warriors, like people say like most of the connections these days are behind the screen and it's so sad when you see even kids like these days playdates consists of everyone sitting on their phone on a couch how crazy is it? I had fuckin stilts made out of baked bean cans. Yeah and but the Rope No, it's just your tragic like Pete like, you know, I think people honestly almost losing the skills of how to actually have face-to-face person-to-person connections and relationships. And so there's that and I also think the world's becoming increasingly pressurizing I think the pressure into his world the demands the expectations the image that people have to uphold it can be just so so so destructive so I don't know either on the My head I guess those things come to mind just the pressure Rising society that we live in and look at that. I think that does linked to systems we have in place, you know, a big struggle I have is that in today's world. We all want quantifiable measures to validate ourselves whether that is, you know, you validate yourselves by how many Facebook friends and Instagram likes you have how many you know what your weight is on a scale what your salary is what your how much, you know we We want these tangible measures to to quantify and to validate ourselves, but they can be also so destructive. Yeah, because you know, its it takes away from you know your value for who you are not just what you what you do or what you can achieve and I think these These are inevitable in our in our lives and we're not saying that we can't have them but we need to learn to relate to them differently. It can't be the motivating factor for why we can't be the driving factor for why we do these has got to be the byproduct. Show us so you mean you want to focus on the mains rather than the end. Yeah, and the values which lie in the face of getting to the end and you get and you know, like people if more people in today's world did what they loved so many people, you know are so unhappy and they're doing jobs because it will bring that income. But if you know, if you do what you love and you know, and then your income become secondary to that, you know, if you form connections and then you want to build a social media network from that and that's fine. If you want to you know, it's what we were talking about. You know, what exercise how many people are driven by you know doing it for how you look and how you feel and it's just important to like keep these, you know, you had the values and the good intentions and the motivations of the Forefront and those secondary gains will come or follow but everyone's become very fixated on and I get it because I say we all want just we all want a tangible measurable quantifiable indicator of if we're good enough, but it's I guess we An idea of what success looks like and if it doesn't look like that will how will people know that we're successful Yeah a hundred percent yet. I mean at some point that links like a Stephen my story and you know a lot of my dad and he gets a lot of this is gonna come through that I've really tragically seen some really sad outcomes to this type of mentality and and sort of way that Society functions Are you ever happy to talk more about that? Yeah, so did I and I guess it you know, it all links having the same thing to keep recurring but you know mental health and their struggles. Yeah, they definitely don't discriminate. They don't discriminate amongst even socio-economic class race gender, you know, no one sort of escapes like or gets gets by untouched all the time. I yeah, I grew up in a really Really quite an affluent chords Community back in Sydney lived a very normal probably even sheltered life very privileged life. And yeah life drastically changed in about your end of year 10 year 11 had a huge family sort of Crisis and fall out. And once again a lot of the times it is around money and those things and it sent My parents into major depressions and there was a lot of real role reversal that I from in the 17 year old child. That was just trying to find my way and struggling with my own anxieties and perfectionism and academic achievements to suddenly have to take on some really difficult roles. And yeah, it's hard, you know, it's you know your parents when you know your parents you grow up and they're supposedly meant to be you know, these role models and You know, they're your hero is and your Pillars of Strength and your rocks and to see them deteriorate and crumbles. It shakes your whole world, you know from from parents or a mother who, you know ran her own business and looked after three kids and two sick parents and Wheelchairs and you know to then not being able to get out of bed was a really difficult thing to watch and and the involved in and yeah both my parents struggled in their own ways. And yeah, very tragically they're both. My mother did have a few suicide attempts at she yeah, thank God, you know did survive and then very tragically in 2016. My dad ended up taking his life and it's quite a unique case. I mean suicide in itself is a very very complex very complex phenomena and complex death. There's a lot of paradoxes about It's you know, it's a very very selfish act but very selfless. It's very cowardice, but courageous. It's it goes against our it goes against our evolutionary survival means but it was a pretty unique case because I think you know It is a very taboo topic and you know, when you come across people and you know, you even say you've lost a pair of no one would even fathom that is as a means of still get really awkward. I imagine that would make them very awkward it I read it as they go through this they say was cancer car accident, you know, no one yet people like 20 Christian you about it. Yeah people, you know, because I just know ask unless it has volunteered to be honest. But yeah I shave because yeah, I think it is about breaking it down. Serious, but now I say no he took his life and people are dead. They had can just seems crazy for him to imagine a parent because obviously it makes you think of your own your own parent and you know, you feel it and you just can't I guess it's something you just can't comprehend what else I mean most people can't comprehend losing a family member because most people have experienced it. Yeah, like the thought of that it's just it's just so shocking and so awful. Yeah, you know they say, I mean lots of you know that that was obviously the Pinnacle of the struggle but there was yeah a lot of there was through that period there was a lot of domestic violence there was a lot of yeah, it was, you know an external thing became what you know as a family we became like broken and there was yeah they a lot. Yeah huge amount of trauma involved and But you know and I always say that almost if I if I had a glass bowl showed to me, you know, 10 years ago. Well what my life would have eventuated to you know, I don't know if I would have been able to get out of bed back then. But yeah, this is what is amazing about about the human potential and about, you know resilience that we don't know about but the interesting thing I think about my case, I think suicide is for a lot of suicides are happen. It's a lot of the time out of the You know, it comes to the shop to people. It was a very unique case with some of my parents and guests particularly. My dad at that. It was a very openly spoken about thing. It was something that I was aware was going to happen there. He said that he was going to do that yet. How on Earth do you even deal with hearing that as a daughter? Yeah. How do you do good question. It this is look at everything that's happened my life. I think the hardest thing that I had to accept the hardest thing was to accept that that could have that that was an inevitable outcome that was going to happen and that there wasn't I couldn't do more to stop it or to save him I had did I did all I could for the years I lived at home. So this this period of yeah, this is the struggle and adversity and hardship. Yeah asked it from the year 2000 and 10 2 2016 our you know, we're talking almost eight years of going through this and yeah, the hardest thing that I've you know as had to accept that and I can't I can't help someone more than they want to help themselves. And that's a really really hard thing to accept. It's really hard. Yeah, but that and that's what's so so incredibly hard about mental health and this is this whole as I say the disparity between mental health is that when people, you know suffer from from physical illness and they you know, it's a lot of their recovery in that is actually in the in the arms of the practitioners around and you know, you have a you have a broken bone or you have a two-man you go to the doctor and they can firstly give you a very tangible diagnosis and scan of it and then and then they treat it and you know you very much your you know, your life is sort of very much in their hands, but when it comes to mental health, it says double edged sword that it is very much on the person's doing to help themselves that you know, you can only you can only give people you know, you can't take a horse you can take the horse to the water but you can't make them drink. Yeah. Yeah, so you've got to you know, and and and the and the bigger the hardest thing is that people do for fix into it and they think that they you know that they can't help themselves and that's why it's it's a Really hard thing but I'm I guess I'm just such an advocate for just empowerment and for autonomy that you know, just as we do and can get out. I don't think people cause a lot of mental illness. It's what we call it, you know in Psychology. It's you know, it's it's Gene environment its nature nurture its you know, you can have a predisposition but it needs to be triggered so you can make it worse or better depending on your lifestyle your relationship a lot of things and then personality if anything, I'd write a PhD one day is really interesting that people think. A lot about the time a lot of the time that it's just circumstance and it's and it's the illness but there's other variables, you know, you're and that's what we talked about inside because of the protective and the risk factors and you know, and you know support networks are a protective Factor, you know, risk factors and and personality is really interesting in my dad was a really easy going guy. And yeah, he was just he was he was almost too easy going and too complacent with Little that. He didn't have enough fight in him. Yeah, he didn't have you know the fight whereas, you know other people, you know, even other members in my life my family who always has displayed even these narcissistic qualities that I can really resent in life. It ends up being their survival because they thought that they were you know, they thought that they were really were like Gods give to this earth and that they were no actually there's as much as they were in their deepest depression. They weren't going to Going to call it quits. So it's a bring an asshole can have its advantages everything like that and it sucked, you know, nothing's adapt like everything in life. Yeah, it's not inherently good or bad. It's adaptable maladaptive depending on the circumstance at the time, you know for me to survive what I needed to do and go into survival mode, you know, my body was constantly firing, you know in my fight-or-flight mode into such severe trauma and stress and pressure and it Served its purpose for that time in my life. I needed it but my life circumstances have changed and I don't need to be functioning in that way. And so what was adaptive is now maladaptive where there's no sort of imminent threat that's there but my body still responds as if there is yeah and I'm you know, busy sort of trying to re and almost at I feel flat myself that I'm so used to thriving and functioning through dysfunction that without it. I feel flat and purposeless. I totally understand this. I guess it's the same as with any relationship. Relationship when it's high drama, you know, I guess toxic but you kind of get used to that height that extreme high that extreme low and then when you're in a relationship with is none of that and it's just you know, pretty steady. You think that there's something wrong because you don't have this constant drama. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah humans we Thrive it always acts like its own form of like addiction Pathways. We do we become addicted to We we all want to play the hero we all want to be validated. We all want to be needed. And yeah, it's a lot of people feel uncomfortable. Sorry lot of people don't know how to be comfortable with being uncomfortable and my struggle the moments right into the larger comfortable with being comfortable. Yeah facts you're so used to being uncomfortable. I'm so used to be comfortable with uncomfortable. I'm so used to just You know, I'm being able to just yeah, sit through a lot of shit and a lot of you know, just discomfort a lot of hardship. So nothing's going wrong at you almost feel like something's wrong. Yeah, or you do feel like you're constantly waiting for something to do and then you almost had becomes its own almost, you know, you always and it's always like something has to be wrong than you started. Yeah looking for the law like you create it almost. Yeah. Oh, yeah, you just you become hyper you just hypersensitive to it. So yeah as hot as as hard as that was and yeah, and even though I cognitively knew that that was going to happen, you know it with my dad and you can you know, you can sort of prepare for that and have to work through that acceptance. Nothing prepares you for that finality because yeah death is just so final there's nothing else in my life. That is that final and irreversible everything in life can almost be rectified. But it sure yeah, it's an end to human beings. We actually aren't Yeah, we don't we're not almost made to understand what finality is and it's the same thing and that's why the grief Associated, you know, there's two experiences in life that they say are like just fucking hard and that is losing a loved one and like through death and also going through a significant relationship breakdown and they both grief. You're both they're both lost and I've sort of experience them both now and can therefore verify how similar the experience the feelings On that off because on top of sort of losing my dad and through this whole difficult period once again, I you know, I say that I was in a really amazing relationship. That was Stephanie a protective factor for me. I I moved out of home Simon identical twin and my twin that's cool built-in. Yeah - in this money this might not even be Nicole. She could have gotten ahead and fill in. Yeah. She's um, she's the greatest gift that Oh, I forgot in my life. And I don't think I would be able to get through I wouldn't have been able to get through what I have without without her by my side and I'm just very very very blessed to have an infield companion. That's really cool that a lot of people don't and that's why I've never really experienced loneliness in my life and to tell you the truth. That's definitely one thing worse than death in this world is loneliness. Yeah, and so yeah, I had an identical twin and through all of this. I moved out of home at 19, which was a pretty unique experience for my community, which was very sheltered and you sort of little you know, you it's an insult to your parents. So you like lovely aren't we getting married? So yeah like yeah and told ya it's an insult to your parents me about they want you to stay home. Oh my God, my parents would what everyone else are so time. I moved out that came from but so for me to actually leave home because of circumstance was a This was after after your father had passed away before I can't was even a hard thing to move out of home and to know that I wasn't there to micromanage. Yeah, okay to walk away accepting that and that's you know, another you know, the acceptance is just one of the hardest things in this world, but also the you know survival was also depended on cop metallization and and support networks. Like they have to think about those three things. I mean, yeah, I had to I think people go down when you start letting I guess That pain and suffering infiltrate into every aspect of your life. That's when you fall down with it. And so as hard as it was I had to cop ah mentalize that when I was at home and I was dealing with the shit. I was that's you know, but that was despairing and difficult and but then, you know, I try to channel other things and you know, it was about I couldn't I couldn't change that thing in my life that I could try take charge of other things that I did have more control over and that's why you know, I when I I don't know how I managed to get through my psychology degree. I mean, I wrote I wrote exam six weeks after my dad passed. Oh my God, and I had to get into I had to get distinction averages to get into honors. It's a think it did. It is only a hundred that go from a thousand and now I actually couldn't even and you want to talk about fucked up. So since this is where your best example of it. Is that even the psychology department the way they dealt with the suicide and that was just completely insensitive. You know, I said to them, I'm normally a distinction student. I Only to produce and get those marks, but I'm not sure if I can do it in these circumstances fair, and because that they gave me the option to withdraw bit of would have prolonged at a year and a half and I just my life already been put on hold so much and I just wanted to keep going for myself, but I said can you not share leniency that if I don't get those marks as reflective of circumstance and not my capabilities. Yeah, you said not if you get them all to go through you don't you don't that's just the way it works. You're a number at this point. And yeah. Oh, I really couldn't believe it and I wrote it anyways and said sort of fuck you if I don't get through like that's your loss to your University. Hopefully someone else will take me but I managed to somehow miraculously did it get distinctions and statistics. Oh my God, she's so defiant. And so yeah the fact that I got through that but yeah, you know needing to compartmentalize and sort of you know, when I was studying really focusing and interrelates, I guess a lot to be The mindfulness that whatever I'm doing to keep my focus on that, you know, and when I was with friends, I was with friends and when I was studying I was standing there when I was at home. I was dealing with that. But as soon as you sort of let that pain and suffering and You know trauma start to penetrate every aspect of my life. That's you know, that's a new book and that's what sort of depression is. When I guess it does when it does become all-consuming. So but then the hard thing is end in the year after that my relationship ended with my partner of five years. Fuck dude. Oh my God, so and I know you mentioned other day that grade being your constant in your life and I resonate with that a lot because yeah, my partner was also that The constants in my life the only stable thing through all of this so much what obviously so much instability in your life and you in terms of you know, you're not from here. You've moved to another country. You've had all this. Yeah trauma. Yeah, and then I had he was like, yeah, and and I think it was so crazy is that you know, he it wasn't. Yeah. He helped to really minute like take up so much of the pain. I went through he really helped me, you know, he helped to to minimize that and it's crazy to think. Think that and we went through quite a bad breakup and a whole change of character in him and I just yeah, I never anticipated that the person who had done so much good and helped me through the hardest years of my life could ever sort of cause it amount of pain. And yeah, so there was a lot of grief and that's he that was actually from Sydney and a part of the reason of moving to Melbourne was also I mean I got accepted to my Master's called. Yeah, but I also needed a clean break. He had actually moved from Melbourne to Sydney for me. So it's a bit of a mind about that years moved from Melbourne to Sydney and then I'm now Melvin yeah, absolutely. But yeah, the grief Associated it was just aquatic compounded the grief and the loss in my life that Nia and now is losing another significant figure in my life and now the male figure and what makes them almost more, you know too hard to comprehend. I mean as as hard as you know, as I said the exceptions of my dad's death was it is black and white and he's not here and I can't entertain the idea of having a relationship with him. But with with relationships romantic Relationships, you know the person exists in this world, but not in your life and you know, and the triggers aren't just past their present, you know going back to city and like, you know thinking I could see him and he has another partner now and it's just becomes really triggering and really difficult. And yeah, this year was sort of the first time that I've really experienced that that loneliness because I've actually spent more nights of My Life Sharing a bed with someone they're not you know, my twin and I shared a room for Twelve years. I had six years apart in the last five hours with my partner. So this year I've really learned what it means to be a self-sufficient or I mean, I've had a lot of Independence in my life and not necessarily individuality. Yeah, and it's been a really important thing to to learn and to become self-reliant in you know, let's not deny that there isn't room for support networks. But we do also have to learn that we have to somehow be able to regulate ourselves and we are you know, we only have ourselves that we wake up. Good morning to and you know, we can we can numb the pain in whatever way possible. But at the end of the day, you know, you carry it wherever you go. I think it's really hard to find that balance between needing to be okay by yourself. But also, you know wanting to have that support network. It's quite terrifying a hundred percent. You want to like give yourself fully to like a partner or be completely open and completely vulnerable with your friends or with your family, but there's always that fear that like what if they don't stick around? And and it's just so easy to hold back or not be yourself completely because you're just so scared that you're going to lose them. Yeah, I seriously to death but not exactly but it's essential and you know a lot of people live like that a lot of people live in that comfort and that protection and that defense mechanisms and it makes a hundred cents and what that's what I said is I one point in the time it really served its purpose and its survival mechanisms, but I'm a big believer and I maybe that's just because my tolerance for discomfort or distress might be high for other people, but I also used to live my life on quite a flat plane and I would prevent sort of the highest of high but also the lowest of lows and live at a steady Pace, but that's like if you can't have you can't have one without the other You can't and I'm a big believer that this whole you know there or do they always talk about like Murphy's Law, you know, every action has a opposing reaction and undue burdens Lori as a noisy on my face God's embarrassing but I've always could have had this analogy in my kind of had that it's like climbing a wall and the further you can't and the further you have to fall but the greater the hides you reach and and that applies to every bit of the view. So knowing the greater the greater the success that the gratification of it, you know, and this relates to Falling in Love. To succeed in your career that relates to achieving goals like, you know, high risk High reward, but I do think that that's ultimately what life is about and I guess my message is that you've got to just accept going into anything in life, whether any anything that you've got to accept that with those highs Will Come Those lows and I think I would as and look when I'm in those loads of those you like fuck this. I actually just never do that again. I'm gonna be alone. But with yeah, and I do think that that's what life is and as I said things are instead of flats and you've got to just believe in the process that you know with those apps will come as downs and it will and that things will keep you know, keep changing. So yeah as hard as it is, I think that's what makes life what it is and that's what that's what Drew up like. That's what that's what living is. It's being able to resume its whether weathering the storm and riding that wave and when things are good really appreciating them for what they are but not becoming attached to that. Yeah, I think yeah being attached to either negatively or yeah. Yeah, and and the exactly men would things are crying you're so bad not becoming attached to that either and that's why I'm looking at and it does come down to control people. We as humans want control and we struggle and that's why vulnerability is linked to control. But yeah, we At some point you have to you know believe yeah, you know put put it out of the universe as you say, I just believe that you know things, you know, I I've also grown up as a perfectionist my whole life and as that it becomes very hard to be content with any decision because you always think they could be better. Yeah. There's a better partner out there for you. There's a better Mark I could get there's a better person I could be and your only your only have like a fleeting moment of happiness, but cam I know I should have done. It's so disruptive. It comes from a really positive, you know, a personality trait to be ambitious in this but you know, everything life is that has it is the hardest thing to achieve in. This was nothing else that I mention you it's that fine line before, you know of compassion and criticism of complacency and accepting your capacities, but also like extending them it it's so hard to navigate. It's so so hard but we've got to constantly just keep striving striving for that. But yeah as a profession is that then My psychologist really said to me that it's true like there is no right decision. You make a decision and you make it right. Yeah, there is almost as arbitrariness of like, you know, what is right or wrong and and people put so much effort in this world about thinking about what they should do and into the decision-making process itself where the real effort comes into once you've made the decision making that work not choosing which partner you're going to enter into relationship with people, you know, invest so much energy to that but it's once you choose a partner making it work with Partner once you choose that Korea making it work once you choose that and then it just based there's infinite possibilities. There's infinite careers that we could do and causes we could study in people we could be with and and therefore we you know, we've got to just I guess yeah, as I say not become so attached to to what it is and just be confident in who we are who we are and that will carry you not what you do and not who you're with and you know, it's that internal locus of control. It's like a really just under links back to the you know this empowerment. And as I said just as people can get themselves into the shit they can get themselves out and as hot as that is when you do it's incredibly Satisfying and rewarding and you grow so much from it as well. I feel like I've only become a better person from like hardships that I've faced and stuff around gets it, you know, you don't you don't escape it you get it at some point or not and in your life and as I say that it is it's all relative. I've spent my high school days crying and my early years about of high school crying over school and I can and academics and I you know, I cried if I didn't get the 90s and 80s wasn't Not that then when shit hit the fan with my family and I go to a big wake-up call but you know, I and I guess I have you know, I always think about how the hell did I waste so much emotional energy on Such trivial things, but that things are like that's what's real to us at every point in our life. That's all you know, and that is as real to you and that's why people despite their circumstances in life can relate to the same feelings because it's that's you know, you still feel the same things even if the causes are different but yeah, Perspective is another huge thing this perspective and gratitude. They really are and I are throwing around a lot and they cliche and but they're so true respect. You know, when I was 10. I came up with this full pillar value system and it still holds true then hang on. How do you attend but I was 10. I was seeing how many pieces of gum I could fit in my mouth at the same time. Like ten however, you know, maybe I was 12 13 because that's a way better. Can you please tell me about this? I've never known value was when I was 10. I just said that in life, you need acceptance balance consistency and perspective. Holy fucking shit. That's amazing. But it just it still holds so much truth acceptance of the things you can't change and acceptance of Things are and balance between things and consistencies like integrity and perspective and you know, yeah linking all you know, all these loose knots is that are you know, I think my passion for psychology honestly probably also came through growing up as an identical twin and watching another person, you know, so many people so many children in this world grow up very egocentric, you know, it's about me me me and but I yeah, I've always grown up with another and I guess watching her and observe. Being her spotless interest of like fascination with like behavior and human behavior and why we are the way we are so that's sort of what sparked on yeah the interest in Psychology and when all of this happened as I said was that I found in you know, I feel qualified by life experience. Yeah that's need the paper to verify that but I'm to tell you the truth. I have my own complex complexities and struggles with even psychology as a discipline because you know, You know accepting that I couldn't even save my dad and I couldn't help it makes me think about you know, what's the what's the point? What's the point? But yeah, I think and that's how you treat the lesson of acceptance of you know, I can't help someone more than they want to help themselves as also something. I'm gonna have to learn going into this career and that you know, you can't, you know, because things like guilt or is also a really destructive emotion, but I have definitely I'm at peace with that. I don't blame myself for what was I did everything And I could but yeah psychology the biggest detriment to it is that it's a very treatment focused approach and not a preventative approach so much more work needs to be done from a much earlier age. And once again resilience, it resilience needs to be taught and exposed to at a younger age. You know, I think in this world too many parents and it's they killed with kindness and like they want only the best for their kids and they want to shelter them, but they're not doing they're doing them a disservice you're wrapping something out. Cotton wool wasn't going to make it stronger right? Nah it but yeah, no it's because no parents and no one wants to see anyone go through pain, but you know, it's necessary. You know, it's we have to build it's like resistance training exactly like weights. Yeah exactly to build that resistance and you have to acclimatize to it and we just need more positive psychology. It's not just about you know, because the problem is people shit hits the fan and then they seek help and for a lot of the time it's too late for my dad. It was too late. What's your dad's to sing a song? Just or a therapist this my drive time he was and he was also on the strongest antidepressants that you can be on well and it just shows you your mind is stronger than than anything. Yeah. And yeah, it's I mean, I just had a you know, it was a lot of I mean the hardest thing I guess with my dad is I don't feel sorry that I've lost my father figure. I feel what what sort of eats me is is to just know that someone who I love so bad. Much and who I saw so much value in didn't value themselves and they didn't love themselves enough. They didn't think that they were worth occupying space and breath on this on this world in this world in tongues on this Earth and a lot of his struggles word linked to that. He financially and Andy's career like he you know that he could really he wasn't enough. It wasn't good enough. He he's business really struggled. And yeah, and it's a big thing, you know men and attaching their self-worth to their financial status and Korea and is just it's soul-destroying because he was an unbelievable father and son in law and I loved him for what he could give not what he couldn't that he just too much of his whole self worth was defined by you know by this number and by that sort of validation and this is I guess what I was leaving to back before about just the dangers of these things about attaching our whole self worth to these external measures. It's just really really dangerous. So that's why I guess I live my life with a lot of values at the call because you know, it's so easy to get caught up in all of it. But if you just, you know, keep keep those values and what matters most, you know, and that's why I said the biggest tragedy in life is not learning from the tragedy itself, and I just hope that I can I kind of think I know. I mean, I'm only 25, but I know in from just my tiny little community. 10 people that have taken their lives. It's a fuckload. That's a fuckload. Yeah. I know a lot of people and one always makes you think how many more do we need for people to start realizing as I said what's important and you know kids are taking their lives and suicide in because you know, they're not that you know, they don't feel good enough that they're not smart enough. They're not pretty enough. They're not I'm and yeah, and as I said, it doesn't discriminate even amongst Asian as you say if anything, it just gets harder because the older you are, you know, I'll neural pathways are just becoming more fixed and it's you know, we are the human brain is neuroplastic. But you know, it takes a lot of work to have to undo these core beliefs and these ways that we have been. Just living and functioning a whole lot. But that's why from a young age like at school school is just such a in your enemy even as an educational to be an educational developmental psychologist, you know could really see myself running programs in schools and what you know It's not just about teaching in their ABC in the mass but let's find out what their values are. Let's teach them life skills. Let's teach them, you know strength and resilience and and you know and building and you know, if I mean, yeah from a young age and teach them give them the vocab for expressing their emotions and teach them how to interact with people and how to deal with confrontation and conflict and you know, these things are just going to be so imperative going forward that if you know how much you know, You know majority of our Healthcare today is mental health-related. Not 70% of our doctor referrals are for mental health plans and antidepressants. And people just want a quick fix. You know, I have these I have a very, you know, as I say love like a lot of my own struggles with psychology because on one hand, you know, we don't want things to be to boot. We want people to talk giving labels, you know, depression and and all of these things once again, they're not good or bad but it's how we use them on some hand on some one point. I want had people use these labels as a self-fulfilling prophecy and they play victim to it. That's another big thing of An important thing for and I guess how I got through. My struggles is not playing victim to my circumstances. It's justifiable to it's understandable to that. I could have just you know said fuck it all it's too hard and just killed off into a ball and not wanting to deal with it, but that can really get you so far but yeah, not playing victim to your situation and knowing that you know, we can't control what happens to us. We can only control how we respond to them. We can't control the circumstances in life. What happens a lot of that's out of our control. Control, but we can control no one can take away from you your attitude and your your your perspective and that's something that is within our control and that's why even with psychology and you know, cognitive behavioral therapy. A lot of it's about changing our thoughts because our emotions are very very instinctive. We can't really control our emotions they come on very quickly and strongly but we can change our thoughts and how we think about things. And with that then changes the way we feel and then changes the way we behave so yeah, not playing playing the victim and it's just hard because it's a double-edged sword you giving labels and diagnosis two people on one hand can be really empowering you can give people an understanding of why they have been feeling the way they are a kind of like, I'm not crazy. I'd literally have yeah, it makes sense. I can climb balances and struggle but it's about using these things as I said to empower us and not to play victim to it using it to my using it as an excuse. Yeah, and that can also happen is this really fragile system that a lot of it, you know, it does become you know, I'm not getting out of bed because depressed people don't get out of bed. So I don't have to get out of it. Yeah, I'm not going to that party because I'm anxious so I'm just not going to go. Yeah. So yeah, as I said it all relates to its all at all that ballotine excellent and I said, yes so psychology, it's there's a big need for it that a lot of structural things need to change. And as I said just positive psychology is not just about you know, I like I've even been you know with only 10, you know fucking sessions a year to go see a psychologist. I've had to disperse them that only I only go in crisis mode only when I get you know, I mean absolutely crisis that do I utilize those services but how you ever meant to get above equilibrium. If you're constantly just trying to crisis management. Yeah, you know, so they just need to be a lot more resources put into it and that, you know, every single person could benefit from going to psychologist. I mean Around at every single person could benefit the amount of personal growth. You have self-development to just talk to someone objectively everyone could benefit from it. But yeah, there's just it's not as accessible and it's so expensive and people do have that whole kind of misconception of you. Don't say you see a psychologist because this Pride there's a lot of Pride yein, and there's but that also really sadly came at the expense, you know, like my parents are the this whole internal struggle that was having our family and I mean, yeah, no one knew what was going on behind closed doors. I opened up to my friends in the snap because I saw the value of confiding and people and forming those relationships, but my parents had a lot of Pride and in the end, I think it almost did cost it cost my daddy's life because you know not reaching out. I mean, yes, he had psychologist but not reaching out for the support network and not wanting to people to know what was really happening and you know in life we all grow up and we Either emulate everything our parents did for us or we will be different to that. But hopefully it helped all helps to shape us, you know, I've learned a lot through these experiences and you know, even through bad experiences of what I don't want to be like, you know, how I want to approach things differently how I want, you know how I want to be a different wife and mother and daughter and friend and and it's interesting how much he can learn what not to do from someone. I was talking to this about this with someone. Other day about different leaders that we've had and how you learn so much more from having a poor leader because you're like, well that doesn't fucking work. I'm not going to do that and also from you know, breakdowns of relationships and what you don't I do like a after-action review of things like relationships and weightlifting competitions and stuff like that. Just so that I can pinpoint like what could I have done better? Like what went what went wrong so I don't fucking go the next time. Exactly. What I'm saying right is tragic from these tragedies is not learning from yeah exactly, you know, and that's what they shoot in the moment and they so hard and that's why it's like this is so high but in the long run it's for the best and that's that also think relates back to what I'll save you in the beginning of this constant, like we need instant, you know, instant comfort and gratification that like, you know, people really struggle to like deal with the struggle in the moment, but like you need to do that for a better long haul, you know, but You know, we you know our tolerance everyone always needs to like yell tolerance for the stress and discomfort. Well, if you the thing is I've read this book actually which is kind of like toys saying which is quite interesting is that we're so kind of privileged and the society that we have so much and not a lot of things, you know, go wrong, right so you get fucking worked up and lose your shit over like the most innocuous shit. Like, you know, you didn't you didn't get on the wait list at your yoga class or petrol went up 10 cents a liter or strengthen a very entitled. Yeah, so it's like well, if you're not having those actual real-life issues like major crisis has you're not going to deal with that shit because you're too busy having a fucking suit because broccoli went up to seven dollars a kilo which is disgusting that they charge that much but you know what, I mean a hundred percent can't deal with like, you know, the worst thing that's happened to me this year is that I left my laptop on the plane, right and I was like motherfucker because Is my laptop but then I was like, you know, what like half of Australia's on fire. There's so many worse things that could be happening. It's just a laptop who cares and people keep going on. Have you found any got your laptop bag from like no. Oh well like yeah, it doesn't matter. So that's what makes it that. Yeah, but that perspective and that's why I like I also think a lot of suffering in this world. Like if it happens then at least let's like take the lessons to be learned from that and sharing and that's why Don't leave your laptop on the plane. For example, because Jetstar will not give it back to you. Ha ha ha some some fucker out. There has a golden MacBook Pro with a find gold wallpaper. If you're listening to that. I hope you're listening to this. You fuck. Good luck trying to crack my password getting in look. Anyway, I'm bad. But what you've got are you going to get as my resume and a whole bunch of photos of me? That's how you're lucky that most of you it was valuable things is inside your braids. So your life. That no one can take that away. That is true. That is true. And I have this desktop from 2006. So it's fine and their witness when there's a will there's a way actually what I'm what I'm interested in is how would you how would you advise somebody if they're they have a friend or a partner or family member who's experiencing really severe depression anxiety something like that. What do you advise as like strategies for them? Because I find it's like it's so hard having been in relationships before having friends. Kids that are going through the sort of thing is so hard to understand and so hard to know how to be supportive how not to smother how to give space but make sure they're okay like what's what would you suggest? it's so hot because the funny thing is is that yeah, it's still so individualized very person because people have different needs and you're going to bring that question down even further you're saying how advice that you would give to people who are on us, like I said position of being supportive and how do you kind of accept that it's not about you, but I think that's one of the hardest things having been in relationships before where I just can't understand the other person's actions and I've made To be about myself because that's the only way I can interpret being you know, ignored or being avoided is that it's something about me that that person doesn't want to be around and actually accepting that it's nothing to do with me. I find like that historically for me has been the hardest part definitely. Well the yeah look and that's what that goes back to get. It's about not in yet not internalizing it when people yeah when people I mean and that happens all the time, you know loved ones and that around as you know, they can really hurt us, but it's about not internalizing that and to know that you know, it's Yeah, you know we we all only have a finite capacity our emotional capacity, you know to deal with things and we need to be more selective of what we choose to dispel it on. As I said, it's a very fine line because you know for my experiences it's about you know, being supportive but it's about that like mine about also knowing when to self-preservation because ultimately, you know, and especially this is people really close on them. So you don't even talk about family members in this and that, you know, if you go down with them, then everyone's everyone's screwed, you know, there's going to be a level of you've got to be supportive but it really does go back to like, you know that oxygen mask on you first before you can help others. Yeah, you need to be support if you need to. it's it's really hard because I think I struggle with is also you know, what we think is best for people is also different from you know, what they might find this and that's also really hard to To learn to juggle and all of this is a work in progress. It really is. You know, it's so hard to sort of give distinct strategies or such that, you know choose empathy over resentment Choose You Know choose. Be motivated by love. And and and look it's we all have a tendency to you know, when you know, when people even talk about arches we can't help but try related to us, you know, we as human beings we want to try and fix it. Yeah, and yeah, we can't and I had to you know, as I told you that's been the hardest thing in my life is to accept, you know, the cases of when I can't change things or you know, my sister and I are both being even in the last few months really struggling with our mental health and particularly, you know, she's the most important person my world and I've taken Straining through seen her her struggle, but I said look if there's anyone that I wanted feel anxious in this world with its you. I'd rather feel anxious with you than exercise alone. That's beautiful. So I think people just need also learn that it's okay. I think people are scared of feeling of feeling the things and feeling the discomfort but it's also about that. It's okay. It's okay to feel these things and it's normal and it's like it is what it is. I think that's one of the heart like, I don't know my motto from even two years ago. It was you know, it is what it is. Yeah, so you've got to be supportive but balance, you know those boundaries and self-preservation. How people in what way they can and to sometimes, you know talking. I mean, I am at all it depends on people need, you know, some people really do need someone to talk to but sometimes it's also about learning to just do things with someone. You know, it's not You don't always just have to be talking and sort of trying to dig dig up. But you know, sometimes it's just about getting out there and being active and moving and whether or not it's you know, helping people to you know, go go enjoyed, you know, the biggest thing in my life is I can't take away the pain the suffering the trauma the sadness the loss all of these negative really difficult experiences and emotions. I can't reverse them. All I can do is try counteract them and Almost neutralize them with more positive. Yes. I can't give back as much good as you can as sort of going to balance everything out. Yeah hundred percent, you know, like you can't, you know, you've got to just I owe, you know, all I want to do yet or my in my life is yeah. I'm in it. I'm in a place in a capacity now that I can give my life for so many years people I was on the receiving end and it's about recognizing that a time's our life when we can give and in the times of our life and yeah when we need to receive but you know, I just want to enjoy life enjoy life. If and you know, just try make some more positive happy joyous memories because you know, we can't we can't erase the bad and it's about it's important that we acknowledge our past and our struggles and our difficulties, but also not letting that Define the future and it was a really hard thing for me to be able to Define myself who is Nicola outside of you know, my dad suicide and my academics and my you know struggles and I can Being a twin and like who am I outside of that? And yeah, it's important that you know, what all of these things have shaped me. We are all products of our upbringing they don't have to dictate your future and that you're a back to autonomy and that we are, you know, we have the abilities to to to create. Yeah to create the lives. We want to live and yeah, and I'm living I've seen I think I've just had a very stock. I very much seen, you know, I've seen people I've seen my dad and you know people waste their life away and you know, even when he was alive, like he was he was existing. Well, he wasn't living, you know, he was breathing and but that's not what living is and yeah, I just seen sort of people waste that away and I you know, I think that's giving me all the motivation that I want to live my best life. I want to live a meaningful intentional fulfilling life. And with amazing people around me. So it's important to stay connected even though I've even experienced myself withdrawing it when things get hard I've even found a times that I've withdrawn and that's because I don't want to be a burden on other people. I don't want to see them see me struggle, you know, because there's also been a lot of pressure, you know, even when I've gone through the struggles that even after this perfect no Nicole you're so resilient. You cannot, you know, if anyone can do it you can and I appreciate that but that also came with immense pressure. It is a lot of pressure to have that being someone who's perceived as quite a strong person is quite a burden it is because when you fucking lose it people are kind of like but you're strong. Yeah, you're fine. Yeah, we're not invincible and you know what it is. It's that yeah, the struggles are there and I'm honest and real about them that Yeah, it's about just time as I know time is also really cliche thing. But when you go through struggle time, it just allows that it creates a new Norm for you, you know the adjustment of often that you know not having my dad and losing him, you know, they you know, people think it's a cop-out answer but with time everyday becomes a day creating a new norm and add a further away from what was saying with the relationship breakup every day, even if you feel so shit every day, you've got to just know that like with time. You know, the cogs are working and processes are happening. And you know, you will learn to adapt adaptability is the most important quality of survival most important trait to survive in this world is adapt because as I said, that's about that no matter your changing circumstances you can adapt and that's hard for humans because we are creatures of habit and comfort and that's why people stay in a lot of toxic situations and act because it's very emotionally driven as opposed to logically driven. but yeah, if you've got to you've got to sometimes take the take the leap of faith and know that like this is as bad as they got to get and sometimes things have to get to that point of being that bad that there's nowhere else to go but up and maybe that's another thing that I can I guess advice I have to say is that you know, when you do see people struggling and you don't want to see them keep self, you know, they keep self-sabotaging themselves as hot as it is. You've got it all so just know that people will get to a point where something will change where they just continue like that, so Don't give up on people be there. No your know your boundaries know how to support people don't internalize the hurt that they caused you and yeah empathize as opposed to judge. You know, I used to be very judgmental person, but realize that when you understand and yeah when you understand you understand when you when you Find out and understand why people are they way that I yeah, you don't judge it make sense. And that's the reason if anything I the reason I share my story or you know, life narratives of people and that is not so they can feel sorry for me. But so they can understand why I'm the way I am. Yeah. I have the values I do and why I lead the life I am make living there's to just give context context is so important and a lot of the time we don't give people that chance. We just make judgments all the time. I'm Yeah service level in yeah, you know people would never believe you know, meeting me that you know that the other had the history I have but that's actually surprising a lot of the time you just surprised to think that the people that seem like yeah, they're almost got it all together and all the happiest. I've actually had the most amount of hardship. That's cool. That's really interesting. Yeah. so yeah, I don't have that advice is helpful that and hopefully that yeah, it's just just navigated navigated as you go don't put too much expectation to be a certain way. You know, let yourself feel it. I really do believe that, you know people really do run from it and they numb and they do whatever they can to escape feelings of pain and this and that but it will inevitably catch up with you. Yeah, you do need to sit through it as hard as that is. Just sit with it to really move past it you just sit with it. And yeah, I mean if you don't it just comes back to bite you on the ass. Really? Yeah, and you're not learning from it because you'll keep repeating, you know, and it's just it's not a sustainable way to go. You know, there's as I said, there's only so many, you know Yeah relationships that you keep jumping between so many substances. You can take so many, you know addictions. You can reply to other addictions Etc. I feel it's only since I've like, I'm m33 it's only been since the last couple of years, but I feel I've made like any progress at all intensive like self-development. I mean, I've changed a lot in terms of my habits my career like even the country I live in like all of those things have changed. But I guess inherently I've been like the same person up until I decided I was actually going to learn from my mistakes. There's no age Monroe that like you say 33, but Sarah there there are people that are set in their ways till 65, you know, there are people's drugs a little grumpy old people. You're right, but also don't have to ask me all people. I did a unit on it and at Union, you know, they actually more malleable and and adaptable than we think they are we give them credit for the lived hard life. So yeah, my grandma right she is probably she's one of those people who just could never be happy about anything. She complains about everything and it's fucked. It's really really fucked and every time I see her as when I when I go back home, I see it like once a year, I'd always be like see you next time and she'll be like, I hope not not cause she doesn't want to see me because that's how much she wants to die. Yeah, and I'm just like well, do you want to just feel so like Fuck I don't want to be like that. So that's like a there's a what not to do guys as well. Don't be like my grandma would be it's just really Bleak and miserable and it's like, you know, she's got a whole life. Well basically Waiting for God to come back. She's a very devout Christian, but she hasn't appreciated any moment that she's ever had because she's always been waiting for this thing to happen. Right and that's what she believes right? So who knows whether that will happen for her or not. Not but I guess it's the same as you know, you're constantly waiting for you know, then, you know, you're waiting for the one the person you're going to their relationship or to have a child or to buy a house and you're constantly like things will be good. When I get to this point when I get to this point well for her, it's always been things will be good when the god comes back. So basically when she fucking dies, so that's all people he needed to their circumstances if this in this change, I would be happy after this and this and that's why I like I'm a firm believer that like That's just not going to be because it's about delicious you chasing your carrot at the end of it. You know, what's that danged donkey? Yeah that thing it's you know, we shouldn't be motivated in this world out of like fear or out of you know reward we've got to find that inner contentment that just and and and that and that's what I'm saying. It's about attitude. It's really about attitude, you know, and being active and that's you know, and not play and and going out there and being active and and you know not Rather not feeling entitled that I deserve, you know, no one deserves any cures. Well ya know and people have a lot very easy to make and title. Yeah and especially saying because we live in a really privileged country and and placement and World especially in a country like Australia. There's a lot of entitlement but yeah, I mean what's really interesting is from the time I was eight my grandparents. I've noticed the difference between the mental and the physical health because my Grandma had a stroke so you didn't have his physical. Capacity but he had his mind and then my grandmother had a physical body. She was very physically healthy, but she was suffered major depression and was also an unhappy complaining misery and from even from eight. I realized that like my grandfather had a better quality of life. No, he couldn't dress himself and no he couldn't shower himself by the toilet, but he had his mind and he had his he could he could choose he's you know, he was able to still, you know, live the life that he could live to the bed. He's ability and my granny had all the capacity in the world, but she never had any of that yet, but positivity that gratitude the nothing and yeah, it's really it's really interesting that ultimately I do think that our happiness in life is contingent on our and up and our perception of it. And you know, that's why I go back to things. I've been grateful for what you do have and perspective of what other people are going through and as I say that perspective, you know, when you know, I've been in myself, you know, I lost a dad to suicide and the year after I was having breakdowns that you need and I thought what the fuck like I've literally been through like the worst in the sand like look at me regret regressing back to these old ways. But once again, it's as hard balance, I'd like it's that's what you know at that time in your life Mike. That's what you know, it feels pressing for you and I entered at validate that but also as I say not not, you know acknowledge it but to not let it You know ignores the struggles, but I don't let it you know, don't wait like know that it's going to come back around. Yeah, don't yeah, you know, as I said don't become attached and just You know just keep keep doing you do the best you can it's so hard when you've ever having those moments of contentment and you're feeling so happy with certain things in your life. You just desperately want to hold on to that state of being and I'm guilty of this because I do it all the time. I'm like things are great. This is good. This is good. I'm happy with this. My life is awesome. And then literally two days later. I'll just be a fucking wreck for some reason and I'm like, why can't I just be like that all the time and it's like but you you literally can't because you can't so nothing. From the beginning that everything is just you know, enjoy and appreciate that those good for one it is but yet don't become yeah, as I said it, you know attached to it. I've even felt you know this last year. I've had my highs and lows from being a walking zombie, you know being completely displaced in my world in my life, you know after this break up. I then went through like sort of these highs and felt liberated and I wanted to hold on to that because I'm also trying to make up with so much sadness and loss and like I even more than ever like really wanted to just keep you know, stay stay. They stay on those Highs but you know and now I almost feel like I've got no tolerance for folded for distress and for trauma and anxiety because you know, it's I've almost got an aversion to it. Now. You might have had your quota make to be fair. Yeah, but as I said, that's not the way life works but no food. I mean, I hope it's on her, you know people in this world complain about being bored in their Life's a lot of on expecially the younger generation, they're bored and you know what? I really think boredom does come out of a place of privilege. yeah, massively, you know I all I wanted to do is live would one day life because that would be present, you know without the drama and and the heaviness and it's struggle in the hardship, you know, but yeah, so, you know when people are bored and they bought in their life just know that that you know, always rather be bald than struggling but at the same time, you know, a lot of people probably actually I mean do want a bit of you know, a bit of adversity as he say to make these growths and And I think I had it in. You know, when you're one of the other podcast about you know, yeah inflicting upon ourselves. Yeah, I don't think we have to go out looking for it. But I just think that it's you know with whatever situations we have in our lives, you know start with that. You don't have to go looking for extra hardship and choose start little counts. Don't worry start with small Wings, you know, you miss that train. Well, don't let me stop you I used to get so I sold out, you know, I spend my life ruminating the past fearing the future. And once again, it's a buzzword but mindfulness like be present is just it's a really important. I think it helps you to just appreciate the moment. It helps you to see stay focused on what you're doing and to not be overwhelmed by what's to come or to not be despair by what was we needed just you know, and to also not be attached not to be attached to two things and to just everyone can really benefit from from that approach. Just learn to know just Be more, you know, we we live such busy scattered erratic lives. No one really knows what it means to take a breath and to use our senses and it's the smallest things. You know, it's a smaller things and addictions to phones, you know, when does anyone ever not do something and we always need to be doing something because that's we've just been programming why that if we're not being productive and constructive, you know, my sister and I and in particular looking my Society, you know, she just had this unbelievable pressure to maximize every moment of every day, and I think that does linked to watching you. Parents are not waste, you know waste days away. But you know, you can't live with that also that pressure you've got to learn to be okay with just Stillness Stillness. Yeah Stillness what and and yeah being with yourself and speaking with your thoughts. You know, I've never really been with my thoughts and last year. I lost it two years ago, you know threw myself into the seek the deepest ward of orders and when traveling for four months on my own from someone who's never like even being in a bit by themselves to you know it Was like it's really scary thing. That's fuckin awesome is really cool. And it was just yeah, it was an amazing it was hard but it was a really important experience to have to yeah to learn to just be with myself, you know, people need to just develop that comfort and self. It's not about it's not about the arrogance of being self confidence self confidence is important, but it's more about self-assurance. Yeah. I didn't realize how much of my He's a knife link to lack of self-belief a lot of anxieties come from a lack of self confidence and self-belief and self-efficacy, you know, we need a believe that we and and psychology really does fundamentally believe that the you know, that people are capable of like people of the know themselves the best better than anyone else and that we've got to try to tap into that and that we you know, we do know what's good for us and, you know, just got to you got to believe it and have good influences around. Do you because it's it's hard when you get I guess can be influencing him in the wrong ways. But are you gonna cut out the yeah. Yeah cut out the toxic PB selective of yeah did talk to people the toxic structures in our lives. Yeah, but we've got to you should write a self-help book. Ha ha ha if you're gonna have a self-help book, what would you call it? Oh, okay, you're lovers of the three words as well just to make her. Self-help book. Yeah, we'll just did what any book? Yeah, probably be well, I mean it's going to help people because I feel like this episode everybody. This is this it would be this is obviously also going to be the name of this episode's hahah. No pressure weathering the storm. Oh fucking nice. Oh, very good. Well done. I love that. It's the storm. Yeah. Yeah weathered many storms and continue to do and you only 25 amazing 25 I feel 45, you know, when they talk about your kind of logical basis your developmental age. You know, I'm I'm trying I'm trying to learn what it means now to e25 and to try reclaim reclaim that that you maybe you should get on the person's house my advice right? Good. Nice you sometimes you just need a you know, what the hell? Yeah. So when of the storm get on the piss, yeah. Don't take life too. Seriously, you're not Jackie. That's even and that comes from someone who's like yeah, I've seen life and death and everything in between but yeah, don't take life too. Seriously after the most serious podcast episode and the universe laughs laughs. Yeah, but don't ever get those wall hangings. Let's say them and put them out at your house because then you're the worst person in the world. It's a cliche but like, you know, just Smell the roses feel the Sunshine and counter and get on the bus and my sister just do ballroom dancing together all the time. You know what I did for New on You years I did karaoke and I'm the worst thing in the world like, I'm terrible. Anyway, I just didn't give a fuck. I sang share believe like at the top of my lungs. I did like to share impression, which was like horrendous. And actually I know it wasn't. Because a friend of mine video didn't play it back to me and I was like, oh my gosh, it's like the worst noise you ever heard your life, but she was like, oh my God, I loved how much he just didn't care. Sign it. Okay. Exactly. You're ever so much insecurity. Just I mean, I've got like no filter all the time. I don't even realize like I you know, there's no filter in and know I'm very aware in a lot of ways but completely oblivious in other ways, but you know, that's all so beautiful about children. It's like they don't care what others think they just are who they are, you know, just Just don't be oppressed. By the way that you should be and you know, there's you know, I'm weird and my life is fucked up. But like hey, the best people are though Matt the best people are but you know, it is what it is and I am who I am and you know, no and you know, except they're not everyone's going to love you and I appreciate you and that but you find that people are do you know, it really is true when they say that could well, I'm going to get the quote right now. Those who those who mind those are ya nuts? mind yes, that is that I always get that mixed up choking, but it basically and true. Yeah, that's why I surround yourself with people that make you you know, make you the best, you know, you can't change another person. You can really influence them. So that's probably also links to the whole thing about, you know, just don't put so much pressure on yourself to save and to fix people but you can influence them and when they don't, you know, when they still fuck up despite the advice you give them don't internalize that II don't I don't take it on board just Don't you know don't don't like let it how many times have you got pissed off? Because you told someone the same advice over and over again and they just literally just ignore you constantly and end up at the same situation. Just like well, fuck it. I'm done. Yeah. Yeah, you're going to let you know people you gotta let people gotta let people live and experience for themselves and you just got to be there as a support when they're ready to when it when it when they're ready because you know, and that's all we talked about in Psychology this whole the process of change. It's not a linear process and that's a really The hard thing when it comes to mental health, it's never a linear process. You're constantly going back and forth, you know, the stages of grief grief is something I will continue to properly deal with for the rest of my life and you go, you know, you think you made progress in your regrets, but that's just riding the wave and acceptance of that that you go through stages and like and yeah, but and with But yeah, you're you know things regret and with mental health, you know if it is relapse and and it's about, you know, people get really upset because you like done so well, why the fuck am I regretting back but you've also got to say hey, I have got to that point and I've made that growth and I know I can get there and because I'll get back there again be confident that you will get that. You will get back there. Give yourself self compassion, but don't become complacent. It's a lot of lot of good shit in them weathering the storm when it comes new book will be out shortly Mike. Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you. It's been an absolute pleasure. I hope you have such a good year this year. And that's a bad that the end up being good. But I knew if they ask me to reflect on my was that a conscious Festival asked me to reflect on what the last decade has been and holy fuck. It was a table. Wow, that would have been if I can it's a decade literally 2010 to There was lost and everything in between a lot of loss. But yeah, 2020 a new decade New Opportunities and that's another thing is that when you have a shit day and I've had a lot of shit days this past year. Don't let that contaminate the next that's a good point. Every day is a new start every day the sun rises and don't you don't have to carry that past day or that past week off their past month, you know, it's a fresh start and And see it as an opportunity take the opportunity to be different to feel different to do something different, you know, why is words? Thank you so much right. Have you ever the best day ever? Thank you, and we'll see you guys next time.
Nicole Abramowitz is certainly a qualified psychologist in terms of life experience, despite being a few months off having the piece of paper to prove it. Her story of family trauma lead her to a pursuit devoted to better understanding how the human mind works and has given her the firm belief that the biggest tragedy in life is not learning from the tragedy itself. This episode may be triggering and I would advise those experiencing any past trauma similar to Nicole's to speak to a trained professional, and just in general because psychology is awesome. 00:00 How 2020 is a fucker so far and why it’s OK to be one of the people being strong for others, plus how I met Nicole. 04:00 Riding the sometimes shit wave that is life and the benefits of adversity. 06:00 Why people are so fucked up, the societal regressions we are experiencing that contribute to our collective poor mental health. 12:00 Nicole shares her story. (This may be triggering and contains themes of suicide and domestic abuse.) 18:00 Accepting that you can’t help anyone anymore than they can help themselves. The difficulty in accepting and providing support and the importance of autonomy and empowerment. 21:00 Toxic relationships and the addiction pathway, why we are hooked on playing the hero. 27:00 Grief and loss, death and breakups and the similarities in coping mechanisms for trauma. 35:00 There's no 'right' decision, you make a decision and you make it work. The importance of owning this is in a life of infinite possibilities. 42:00 The importance of values. 52:00 Takeaway strategies when supporting a loved one - accepting that it's not about you and why we find this so fucking hard. 60:00 Why adaption is the most important trait in survival. 64:00 Inner contentment and not being motivated by external reward. 68:00 Gratitude, perspective and acceptance...not letting your struggles define you. 70:00 The joy of living your mundane life and why being bored kinda rules. 