We've all been there justifying our creative job to Mom and Dad explaining what our job is to Granddad brushing off jokes about freelancing from her mate who works in finance but times are changing and the value of creativity is being recognized the creative Industries are the fastest growing part of the UK economy and only slightly jobs to be taken over by robots. I'm Keeley McLeod and this is get a proper job where I'll be talking to researchers andAbout the issues that matter we live in such a world of opportunity. There's never been a better time to cash in on your passion in this episode of get a proper job. We're talking digital content creation with influencers marked reveal guess and Jess TVs. Hello and welcome before we get chatting to Json Mark. We're going to hear the research from dr. Francesca. So Bandy of the card of school of Journalism Francesca is a lecturer and digital media studies and she'll be talking about creative labor rates for digital content makers my work primarily focuses on issues to do with identity and equality media in the marketplace. So there's lots of different ways that influence our culture or the rule of an influencer will be defined for me. It's about work the word. The cloud and social capital of people who have managed to get a degree of Fame and have managed to also profit in various ways through their digital presence in particular. I'm thinking about social media. So we've got YouTube vloggers people on Instagram people and Twitter for me social influence. Our culture is about what people are doing in digital spaces, which results in some degree of Fame for them. But in a way that differs to the conventional celebrity format that were familiar with Is so it's different to the Hollywood industry in theory. Anybody can become an influencer, but we know that in reality actually very few people can actually make a living from that process certainly something that's really interesting for me to observe is how when we think about the typical high-profile influencer, they have often hundreds of thousands if not millions of followers or subscribers perhaps on YouTube perhaps on Twitter, but what we see less of a discussion about is this rule of the Michael influence or sometimes even the Nano influencer. So this is people online with a much smaller presence. Sometimes typically maybe even a couple of thousand but which because of their smaller folder numbers enables them to sometimes have a stronger more effective degree of Engagement with the people who actually follow up what they're doing. So there are really interesting examples of Brands actually saying we don't want someone with the biggest falling or we don't want a high-profile celebrity. We want somebody with a much smaller digital presence as is has often been understood but we want them because they can provide us with this sort of hyperlocal and form of Engagement that they can't actually get by turning to the traditional high profile individuals that brands have often worked with in the past. Some people will see that media has become democratized and that the rise of what might be referred to as do it yourself or do it together digital media means that people are able to avoid Gatekeepers and broadcast themselves to an audience in a way. That's very Hiring so to speak but I think the reality is even though the playing field are certain aspects. The playing field has been leveled in some ways very few people. As I said can really make enough money from this sort of work that they're going to be able to do this full time. And actually when you look at of those people who are able to do that there are issues to do with inequality. So whether that's issues to do with class background issues to do with age issues related to the financial stability that somebody's in In to be able to pursue this full-time. So again, there are a lot of contradictions really to think through or a lot of different potential benefits and challenges involved in somebody pursuing this type of work. And the last thing I would want to do is imply that anybody is capable of doing this full-time. Certainly. There are examples of people who can but the reality is to be an influencer and to be a very profitable one involves quite often having access to different sources of income sources of Court and and being approached in your work from a particular place that very few people are capable of doing now we're talking to Jeff and Mark about Francesca's research and I'm hoping they'll give us an insight into the creative work that they do you may know Jess from jabber with Jess her curated corner of the internet a safe space for sharing thoughts opinions and Views. Jess is a Welsh lifestyle blogger and vlogger who's worked with the legs of BBC wheels s4c and Orchard. She is close to a hundred and fifty thousand followers on Instagram and more. Than that again on Twitter as well as an active Facebook page website and YouTube channel Mark or Triggs as I hope I'll be able to call him is a personal trainer and founder of 30-plus men's fitness. His boot camps are located all over the UK, but he also has an online community of members around the world. He's built his brand using social media podcasts and video content. Welcome both. Hello. Thanks for having us. Thank you, Jess. Can you tell us a little bit about what you do just to get started, of course. So I You mostly blogging which is the kind of writing form and then Vlogs as well and Instagram is probably the one that I post my content a lot more on and then Twitter is where I kind of run to about my personal feelings. And how did you get to where you are today? What's your kind of career been? Like I started modeling when I was 18. So I was doing all the Lad Mags and from that I kind of just caught wind of the Twitter and Instagram as it was exploding really and then my following grew really fast, and I've kind of kept a steady Pace I wasn't and So your main job now is in content creation. Yes. Yes. How do you find that? It's good. It's fun. It's something that when I was doing the modeling, I was kind of posting stuff. I feel for the sake of it. Give it I felt like I had to be someone online and it's only in the last year when I set up my own website and blog and I kind of decided that I wanted to create content that represented me any kind of put myself over more as the personality rather than just Instagram image, which is why I started the blog so finding your voice real. Solutely Fab Mark, how would you describe your job? What do you do? Well, I'm a one-to-one fitness coach, but that only occupies kind of half of my time. They'll probably be a little bit less than half the rest of time spent online. I took my business online back in 2012. So my day-to-day entails coaching in person, but also I'm committed to doing at a regular Facebook live every day. I do that for about an hour to my fans on my Facebook page. I also have to send out a daily email and then on the weekends actually do live workouts for my paying members. So the days are spent, you know, obviously prepared my Facebook lives content for my emails and generally just serving my online clients which are generally based in Facebook groups. Okay, and I've got an interesting question here for you. Would you class yourself as a creative because you're making creative content? Yes, I would absolutely. Yeah. I've been I've been writing blogs for years and it's funny because when you start off doing that type of thing, Almost felt like I was the only one doing it. I remember I just went on to Facebook and exploded and now all of a sudden everyone's doing it. And would you call yourself an influencer? I don't know. I might influence her. I'm I'd like to think I've had an influence over people in terms of helping them with their health and fitness. Maybe if you want to call me that you can but I don't particularly label myself as one I'll let you Jess. What do you think around the word influencer? I'm the connotations of that. I think it definitely can mean a lot of things. I think when people think of an influencer, they'll think of people who get paid. To post stuff online. Whereas I use my platform to kind of share my content and experience them through that I get job. So it's kind of a little bit different what but I went. Yeah, I think when it comes to the term influence that I'd say that I probably use my platform to try and influence people. So in that way it is but I think it means something different to everyone really and use it to do good. Yes. I hope so in her segment about research around digital content creation Francesca talks about digital media. Lemon creators to avoid The Gatekeepers that maybe in the past would have stopped your content from getting out there and because you can you can post directly and she said that that's empowering. Do you feel empowered by that ability to create content and get it open to the world? Yeah. Absolutely. I think it's something that you own it and it's a space where you can put whatever you want. But it also comes with a lot responsibility, especially when you have a lot of followers, you can post something off the cuff and if you're feeling quite emotional and then that can come back to bite, you know. Is it once it's online that are forever. So when I'm posting something which I know is quite a sensitive topic I go over it many times to kind of see what reaction it could get and what people could take from it. So it's also a huge responsibility as well as being an empowering kind of space to be in for sure. And what about you mark? Yeah. I mean, I like putting out my own content and owning it, but I've been quite been quite open in the past. Like I've been in the industry a long time now, and I've been through a lot of changes myself and some of my beliefs I've actually changed and so, you know what I wrote about 7 years ago, I might not necessarily believe in now and I actually came out about two or three years ago when there was a different sort of we were going down a different Road in the fitness industry with more of an awareness on things like calories in and calories out and I actually said look, you know, I think I was misguided in the past. I only knew what I knew then and I was only doing it to the best of my ability. I've only ever wanted to do right by my clients with what I know and this is what I knew then and this is my updated message and you know, I got quite a lot of For that but I was like look, I'm just being honest here actually did a podcast in which I labeled I was wrong and I talk about certain things which I you know, I used to live I would be Evangelical that this is the only way and now actually there's been updated message. It was just about to ask you about owning your content and I mean in terms of owning it financially and be having the rights to it, but what you've just said they are around actually owning what you've said in the past and kind of standing by or not. That's really interesting area. What was the the feedback that people people a lot? There was generally positive a lot people just like yeah, you know, we admire your honesty and do you feel like that led to any more clients anything different in your business? It's hard to say. I mean, we're always growing sort of year-on-year. So the business continues to grow. So whether that led to any more clients would be hard to tell and what about you in terms of the business benefits. I think it's really important when you're creating content like to kind of own it because it will come back to bite you if you said something to you. Not being authentic. So I think the business benefits is, you know, when you're creating content online people will pay you to post and if you're being authentic and you've got an organic following that will really benefit you as well and more Brands want to work with you. So again, I think it's all about honesty and just trying to be as authentic as possible and Loan and have you had experience of working with Brands. Yes. So I started out working with Brands when I was really knew I was about 19. I think when you've got an influence on line, you've got followers you have Be aware of what you're posting see more carefully consider the the brands that you would want to work with. Yeah, absolutely. And you have any on your Hit List you don't have to tell us who they are. There's a fear there's a few but for me, it's more about creating content. And you know, I want to be able to do that more than just posted an Instagram post saying by this, you know, because a lot of times I think things are changing and things are moving and people can kind of see through that now that people are just being paid to post something. I certainly don't buy stuff just because I've seen someone posting it online. So I think if you're being organic and you're working with a brand as a collaboration more than just a one-off post that definitely stands out more for me. Anyway, is that your experience Mark in terms of collaboration over, you know, just posting what you're asked supposed. Yeah. I mean, I've been in co.labs with people in the past with like supplement companies, which I really believed in at the time and I was like an affiliate for them and I used to push it quite heavily, but now I kind of stamps up back from a lot of that and what I what really kind of gets Me irate is just what Jess said there is like with these influences on Instagram. Now, they're literally just sell their soul for a few quid, you know, that the influences that salad they're not even tried it. I'm not going to try these products that there was products. I was using back in the day would actually I did believe in at the time. So I would endorse them but these days are kind of moved away from that a lot more now, maybe that's just a generational thing because I'm in my forties. I don't know who knows and you endorse a different approach perhaps. Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about social media because we We have touched on it. What are your platforms of choice? My platform of choice is its kind of separated between Instagram and Twitter for me? I feel like because I was a model and that's how I started off Instagram with very visual. So I'll always post on there when I'm out and about. I've just been on holiday to Thailand. I'm like creating content for my Instagram and always thinking about that on a personal level Twitter is the one for me because I can just want to see run on there, but I don't just run on there, but I just feel like it for me. Important is engaged in conversation, which is why I started the blog. So Twitter just opened a whole new world for me. So that's the one that I use on a personal level, whereas for work and business. It's definitely Instagram for me. Okay, and the positives and the negatives of those channels. Yeah, I think on Twitter, there's can be a lot of negativity around. It's just people's opinions. And once you have hundreds of thousands of people giving their opinion on things you can you know, obviously people are going to clash in an Instagram as people have been using my images. Which I post online and claiming my identity Sometimes using a different name on all different platforms mostly to get money out of people. So asking people to send them money mostly guides on chat rooms, or they use Facebook pages. It's come to it's happened all over so I think when it's definitely something I've become more aware of now, but when I'm posting content online that it's so easy for that to be taken and for that to be used elsewhere and it's something that I really struggled with kind of keeping control of because It's something that your comedy track and it's something that how do you stop people taking stuff? I think once you post something online, it's really difficult to know where that's going and who's using it and who's putting it out there. So it's difficult. I think with the ownership to look at who actually owns that content when you post it somewhere. I think that's something that a lot of people Overlook especially something. You know, I've overlooked it. I'll post an Instagram picture and then look at the likes and that's all you think about when actually that could be used elsewhere and it's really difficult to track something that I think there's definitely It should be more awareness about and also there should be a platform that or someone out there that helped create it was because a lot of time because we are posting stuff for free and we're doing it because it's her passion because we love it. But we're we're protected and who owns the copyright that I'm not really sure. I mean bouncing back from that sort of negativity on social media. How do you go about doing that? It's really difficult for me because sometimes I'll get a back and forth because when people are attacking you personally and don't really know you it's really hard people say just ignore it, but When it's your own brand and it's you as a person is difficult to just step back and not comment on it. So I try and do that sometimes but other times it's just trying to log off and kind of realize that Instagram is not the real world and life goes on, you know, so I think you can definitely get caught up in worrying too much about you know, social media what people think online and what about you tregs for me? It's been Facebook when I went on to Facebook with with business Pages back in 2010. Hi. I have a friend who was like in into like the digital marketing and the blogging and the ETC and he was like this is what you need to do tricks. You need to create a page need to create content and I was like content YouTube What Would you mean? He's like, look, I'll handle all that. Let's just get content out there and I grew my Facebook page fast, like rapidly and actually ended up coaching other Fitness Professionals for about two or three years on how to go online and make money back in the day. You could put a status update and all your fans would see it. But now he's changed Facebook wants you to pay to play. So even if I've got like 25,000 fans on Facebook and I go live. I'm only get 30 join in the reach might be a thousand to five thousand over time when you go back and look at the stats, but but years ago was so easy. You could just put up a post pop up a link and people would buy and I was like, wow, this is this is really cool. This is this is really cool. And for years, it was just growing and growing and growing and then all of a sudden it changed and there's a lot more competition out there now, but I'm really That I went online what I did in 2012 and built my page when I did because I feel like I've got that Authority and literally going online it changed my life because I was becoming a dad with my first son who was being born as I went online. And I literally just hope and up a whole new world for me. You know, it doubled my income. It allowed me to travel and go to different courses all over the world and it's going to help, you know provide my family with a lovely life. So I think there's good and bad points to social media, but I can't hate on Facebook because I've used it as a tool. Tool to give me a great life and to help a lot of people and I always say this if I'm on Facebook, I'm not looking at Tracy's holiday photos from 1996 and magaluf. I mean, they're serving my clients in their groups. I'm serving. I'm putting content. So I use it very strategically. Of course. I've got my own personal profile post pictures of my kids on and things like that, but I've used it to build a business and Facebook's been very good to me. It's really interesting what Jess was saying is why you're always going to get negative stuff, especially if you you you run an ad campaign and you know, I've had people say we Get your like big head out of my feed. I'm fed up of your like Moon faced with your beard popping up and all that and I just delete it used to bother me. I think I've mellowed with age and quite often like I do a lot of self development work and things like and realize if people are attacking you they probably got a lot of issues going on themselves. That's why they do it. I mean like who takes time out online to go and attack people. I mean, it's pretty sad really, isn't it? Yeah, for sure. I mean, it was really interesting what you're talking about there on the differences and you Facebook presents. You have the business brand and then you have a separate personal profile. Yeah, in terms of the boundaries, you know as an influencer, where do you draw the line on what you share on social media? That's really great question. One of the the one of the best pieces of vices I had was from an original mental when I went online when I when I was like just looking back to like 2011-2012 of studying these bloggers in the states and one guy who was online and doing really well. He said people buy from people and that's that's stuck with me and I was She's onto my coaches people buy from people and he always used to like it when he would post pictures on his Facebook page. You have his dog in the background and things like that. It's like people want to know who they're buying from. So quite often like my office is set at her home in my kids room and I'll be doing a live and my two boys at 5 & 7 will come running in they'll jump up my lap and they'll start like talking about there and I just let it run because they're seeing that's my real life. That's how it is on. My dad is chaotic actually becoming a dad help groom what grow my business even more because I was able to write emails and actually say, you know what guys I didn't know what tiredness was for years and now I've got kids so I know what it's like and I used to give guys like you a hard time at my boot camps for turning up saying you're tired. No, I've not slept in years and the message resonated and the business developed again because it was almost like they got to know me even more. So for me, there's no boundaries. I've spoken about all kinds of stuff and I had depression in the past. I lost my best friend to Suicide. You know, I've had two boys which were in and out of hospital with three years of like hospital and no sleep and always kind of thing I've been Very open and that's just me. I wear my heart on my sleeve, but I think my openness has has helped me develop a following but I haven't done it for those reasons. That's just who I am. You just being yourself. Yes. Yes and that authenticity shines through like you were talking about Jess. Yeah. Absolutely. I think for me it's been quite difficult because my brand-new is myself. So my brand is exactly who I am and I kind of had a struggle with what I share in what I'm not going to share and oversharing and then not wanting to share it all and so I think it's only been the last kind. Of year or so that I've tried to find a line of being comfortable in sharing and again because of where I started as doing the modeling and stuff you very much want to portray something that probably isn't necessarily true, you know, ninety percent of the time. I'm not on a photo shoot. I'm not haven't got makeup on and not traveling the world on a photo shoot and stuff. So that's why in the last year. Like I said, I've tried to post more authentic content and be like actually this is me my day-to-day and talk about things that resonate with people and talk about, you know, mental health and body image and things Young girls worry about and your friends and your family. So yeah, it's definitely been something for me to kind of find a balance of what I share in what I don't share because I think also you can feel a bit like you have to share stuff and like you're not probably ready to put that online again because when you've got so many followers people are going to comment on it. So you have to you know be comfortable in knowing what you're sharing is out there for everyone to see so I'll share I've written blogs about my experience with my modeling which Wasn't always great and then I'd have liked my Mumble. I really didn't know that happened, you know, and I'm always aware that what I'm putting out there is what people might not know and what people can then come back at you as well with so, yeah, I think it is definitely difficult. But when you're sharing stuff online to kind of realize if there is a line and what you're comfortable with discussing with people in the real world, I guess because social media isn't the real world and it has effects then a lot of people might come. Is it something you would say to someone if you bumped into them in the street? Yeah. Lately and I'm always very aware of, you know, if I meet someone or I have a job or go for a job somewhere. They going to find that content and then judge you for it because that is what happens. So I think as long as you're being this work keeps coming up on time, you know what then tick but you know, if you're happy again and comfortable with what you're putting out there and you're kind of like I said say it with your chest and and explain it to someone then I think there's no there shouldn't be a boundary. But if it's something that you are not ready to discuss with people in real life, I would say not but On social media. That's a really good tip here in terms of the day-to-day that you mentioned. You know, when you're creating content. What does that involve? I cannot just get I'll just keep my kind of ear to the ground and and see what pops up really, but I'm never I'm never that sure of ideas. I like I like to talk and I like to write so yeah, it's just something that kind of comes quite naturally and what about your creative process Jess? Yes over the last year or so. I had to kind of teach myself have to let you use it. Cameras and microphones and things like that and I don't have a fancy camera most of the time I just film stuff on my phone because it's actually a better camera than my blogging one. But I think being that self-sufficient and being able to create content yourself as just opened up so many doors for me because companies and brands have come to me and said will you can just film it? We don't have to send a film crew of you don't have to send a sound person you do it yourself and I deliver the content the video the next few days. I've had to teach myself to edit and I again I the moment I just use iMovie. I don't even use anything that fancies my YouTube, you know, I'm learning how to To use the Adobe Premiere Pro and stuff but it's just opened up a world of opportunity for me and all that stuff is available online. You know, I just watch YouTube tutorial has anyone ever said to you? You know, what is your job? What do you do get a proper job. I mean, that's the title of our podcast here. I get that all the time. I hate when people ask me what my job is I'm like, I don't really know I literally do everything but I feel like we're in a generation and in an up a whirlwind of opportunity really where people don't have On job title, you know and people when you go into Brands and companies didn't want you to have one brand title, you know, you're doing a bit of everything you're doing the editing you're on camera you're coming up with ideas. You're doing the research for it. So people say that to me all the time and I've been you know, doing the modeling and in transition to the kind of influence of working there for about eight years now and I'm back and forth always, you know with people being like maybe I need to get a proper job and a full time job, but that's not what I love doing. I love creating content and I love doing the stuff that excites me and that usually is doing a Bit of everything so I do get that all the time and it is difficult to ignore because then you start worrying about things like mortgages and when you grow up on your kids, but you know, I think as long as you're doing something you love there's always something that comes around and always an opportunity around the corner and it seems like you're the person to grab those opportunities. Yes. Absolutely. I try really hard on that. Please give me a job you're cultivating a portfolio career, you know, you're showing a breadth of abilities. Yeah, absolutely and there's always a new talent that I learn every day, you know, because I'm just developing Right. I need to learn how to edit and I need to learn how to use microphones. So I think just learning what you want to do and looking into topics and stuff that interests you then you'll always kind of hopefully be happy and doing the job. We love what about you in terms of the personal training people understand that? Yeah, I'm probably probably get it. I don't really get I get it less because obviously personal training is it is a thing and like I said, I that's half of my time and I've been online such a long time. Now, I kind of like people know what I do is kind of I think You know when when you're looking at these influences, I think people looking for now. So I didn't I can see why you probably got people what were they doing? I think people know me. I'm the guy doing the Kettlebell workouts online and I'm doing all that claimed the lives of my kids in so it's kind of like, I don't really get that. I don't really get that but here's the thing what I think what Jesse said is really interesting is like we live in such a world of opportunity. There's a guy called Gary vaynerchuk life Follow You guys probably all heard of him and I remember reading his book crush it and he just said and I've seen him live so many times and he said look, there's never been Better time to cash in on your passion, right? And he said like you might think that your passion like isn't even that cool. Like let's say for example, like you're into worms, right? It's a bit and you might think like you that, you know, no one's going to follow you you're into worms, but you type worms into Google and there's a whole different. There's a whole world's going to come up. So why not? Why not super Niche down and go online and start talking about it. And this is what he talks about. All the time is like look if you've got an iPhone and you've got an idea you can take that online and you can earn money online and I remember when I I first started to make money online. I'd I've gone away on a on this site Fitness Retreat to actually to Thailand with this some uk-based Guru who who sold this program. We takes you away for 10 days and you live in paradise and you have people come and make you food and all this kind of thing and you create your online fitness program, and I remember him saying to me said he said trades there is no better feeling than when you've worked for months building an audience building up for a launch and then you sit there. You could be anywhere in the world and you press go and you send out your email and your link and That come in and he said and he said it's just an incredible feeling and then I started to experience and I was like, wow, this is incredible. You know, I could be sat in the house having a beer and I just pushed going these sales start coming in not by chance by the work that I've done leading up to that for months and we just live in a beautiful age where you know, I'm my kids like watching stuff and I'm Goin how many subscribers is YouTuber got John and he's kind Daddy. They got three million. I'm like this guy's like 16 with three million YouTube followers like this. Is just insane just an insane world and time we live him. I really liked what you said their cash in on your passion. You're gonna be my new thing. Also, I'm going to obviously start following your workouts as well. Maybe just to round off really we're in a new decade 2020. What does that hold for you guys? What's coming up for you? Well, I've got a new mini series coming out on a hunch. I saw also use Facebook platform. Films that's coming out in 2020. Hopefully going to be do more stuff with them and going to be doing stuff with BBC session as well. So that's really exciting. So hopefully just again creating content and doing stuff. I'm eating exciting people which is what I love and the focus of the miniseries is your life. No sigh meet an interest in people all over Wales who have jobs in the sex industry. Wow. Yeah, so it's something that's not really done on SLC before because you know traditionally that they don't really speak about Sex but actually I think when you say it people are like, oh my God, it was, you know quite naughty but actually it's really endearing conversations because it's just people going about their day who have a passion like we were talking about and they're cashing in on it. So yeah, they're really really interesting Converse. We look forward to seeing that you want about you. So I'm in the middle of writing my first book what yeah, so it's not that till the end of a publisher yet don't have them but I very much Believe In The Law of Attraction. I've used that my my I'm just writing it. I'm just in flow. I chanted try and do about a thousand words a day after I've exercised is called don't slow down and it's aimed at over 30 is men for his men 50s men that have maybe never really got started or are slowing down because Society is saying, you know, you need to slow down there's more and more evidence. Now that guys in their forties and fifties are doing Iron Man's are doing triathlons and I for one wholeheartedly agree with I'm 41 now and my kids are 5 and 7, so I'm kind of out of their nappies and no sleep stages. And so I'm you know back to exercising. Good night. I would sleep a night and all that kind of thing so I can really make that a priority so he's kind of like and I and the message in the book is well, actually, you know, if you're in your 40s you your life probably never been more set up for you to go and achieve a big goal. I look back to my early 20s and I was raving every weekend and in no fish. No fit state to do anything. So right now my life is like, you know, nine hours sleep, you know water fruit veggie healthy, so it's kind of like pushing that message and it's more of a mindset but really I'm very much into self development and I don't even think I've written about you. Personal Fitness at all in it is more about getting the mine. Right? So there's one of the chapters as it so you don't need a new diet, you know, you've got to be met before you won't be physically ready into your mentally ready. So it's about tapping into these guys reasons why and and and actually built building a picture of who actually want to become so I'm writing that I'd hope to have it out in the first quarter of the year. We also run Retreats and I have a kind of high-end service where I work with over 30 as businessmen that kind of really successful a lot of the guys in the city, but they they have maybe put their health and fitness on the back burner. So I work with them online and I get to travel around and Coach them. So more of that more of that, please. I mean, I think if half the amount of energy that you've gotten person comes across it it's going to be a fantastic really much. Thank you both so much for coming and I have just love talking to you it also and thanks also to dr. Francesca. So Bondi of the kind of school of Journalism for sharing her research insights into digital content creation. You can find a link to her work in our show. It's as always thanks for listening. And if you enjoyed please rate and review it will help other creatives to finders. We always want to know what you think. So tag creative Cardiff and any of your comments on social media get a proper job is made by creative Cardiff with and for the creative community. I got a proper job. I got a proper job.
In episode one of Get A ‘Proper’ Job, we hear the latest research on creative labour rights for digital content makers from lecturer in digital media studies Dr Francesca Sobande of the Cardiff School of Journalism, Media and Culture. Influencers Mark Tregilgis and Jess Davies then respond to this research laid out by Francesca. Jess is a Welsh lifestyle blogger and vlogger who has worked with BBC Wales, S4C and Orchard. Jabber with Jess is her curated corner of the internet - a safe space for sharing thoughts, opinions and views. Mark is a personal trainer and founder of 30 Plus Men’s Fitness. His bootcamps are located all over the UK but he also has an online community of members around the world. He has built his brand using social media, podcasts and video content. Here is a link to an article from Francesca which is particularly relevant to what she discussed during the podcast recording:   (currently open access in IPPR Progressive Review and featured in the Wiley Politics special issue on the top political research: UK Election 2019):Memes, digital remix culture and (re)mediating British politics and public life: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/newe.12155  Get A ‘Proper’ Job is made by city network Creative Cardiff, with and for, the creative community. This podcast is recorded at the School of Journalism, Media & Culture at Cardiff University. Presented by: Kayleigh Mcleod. Series producer: Vicki Sutton. Studio engineer & editor: Ffion Clarke. Music by: Tic Ashfield. 