This podcast is brought to you and made possible by generous financial aid from Peter kanzler K. Ay n z l-- e-- r-- you can buy his Amazon books at your favorite Amazon Branch, for example, the original texts of lock Hobbs and the US Constitution of Pennsylvania put together into one book for only $15. Thanks for listening. Okay, so there was a couple of things that I wanted to tell you. There were left open in the last lecture. The first one was that I told you that there were two types of games and then I only told you about one type of game so I know you've all been dying of curiosity about that ever since so the first type of game that we talked about was the one where everyone has a particularly shared goal. You might think of that as a structured game, but the second type of game that Piaget was interested in was dramatic or pretend play games and Generally how a pretend play episode works. Is that while our child can always do this by him or herself, but if it's a group game, usually what happens is the kids get together in a little group and they basically script out a little play. It's like it's like what would you call it spontaneous improvisation, you know, and so maybe they'll play house and then they assign, you know a player to each roll and I guess that would normally be mother and father and baby. And maybe a pet dog or cat. So, you know, you could be the cat and you can be the mom and you could be the day I didn't and they'll set up a little dramatic Arena. I maybe it's you know, like a table covered with blankets which kids seem to particularly like and then they'll run through the game now and in some sense what they're doing is imitating their parents or maybe their pet or maybe the baby but it's not exactly imitation and this is an important thing to note because Imitation would imply if you're imitating someone what your incense doing is duplicating what they just did though. There are robots. For example. Now if you want to teach the robot how to do something so maybe the robots got an arm. In fact, it does you can grab its arm and you can go like this. And then as long as you put a can there the robot will do exactly that precisely that so you're teaching it. It has the capability of imitating movements that it's already done once but you know when you're a kid and you're playing house and maybe you're being the mother you don't precisely duplicate with your body exactly the movements that you saw your mother made me be the last time you saw her or the last time you were watching her what you seem to be able to do instead. Yes to watch your mother over long periods of time and extract out something that you might describe as her spirit. And I know that that's not really a psychological or a scientific word, but it's a useful word because or you could perhaps say her personality but it's not her personality exactly because it's her personality as mother which isn't really her personality. It's the mother personality and that mother personality is something that has been practiced by mothers for. Who knows how long and what the child seems to do when she will say for this example is watching her mother is extract out what the spirit of motherhood is and then embody that right and so you might think of the spirit of motherhood as those elements of behavior and perception and emotion and cognition for that matter, but it's an it's an embodied. It's all of those embodied simultaneously what's in common across All the instances of acting like a mother, you know, so you could say well that's mother like behavior and who knows what that might be. I mean, what you want to do is conjure up The Stereotype roughly speaking of a mother, you know, people don't really like stereotypes especially in Psychology. But almost all you're thinking is in stereotypes. So there's not much difference between The Stereotype and a category, you know, categories are oversimplifications and so are stereotypes. But anyways, so you take Imagine This Ariel type of a mother and then the child is acting that out and what they're trying to do is to become the mother roughly speaking. So and why well for obvious reasons, there's obvious reasons why someone would do that it's because without mothers there wouldn't be any human beings. And so if we didn't have a successful mother's then that would be the end of us and so we wouldn't be here to talk about it. So the now one of the things that Piaget observed was that this kind of dramatic play was extraordinarily important to children because it helped I'm learn how to act like they would act maybe when they're older children, or maybe when they're teenagers or maybe when they're young adults. It's a trial run in a relatively. safe environment one of the things I've been thinking about it's not that easy to precisely specify the role of a father but I really believe that one of the things that fathers do if they do a good job being fathers is that they circumscribe a safe space within the house or within the familial environment where the children can play free of interference. And so then because play is also a very sensitive Behavior, but by which I mean that It's easy to disrupt play and children if there's anything wrong with the child, they won't play. So one of the ways that you can tell if your child is doing well is that they're playing I mean, I suppose you can say the same thing about your dog or maybe even your partner, you know, if they're in a playful mood then perhaps there isn't anything particularly wrong with the relationship at the moment on other all the needs that might be regarded this in some senses more fundamental have been met and so to get children to play. Well, you have to circumscribe a safe area and they have to be taken care of. And then they can experiment with different modes of be it and they do that by themselves, but they also do that in the company of other children and obviously what they're doing is practicing for later roles and you know, you see this sort of thing and children at multiple levels because not only will they play out being a parent that's a very common element of Child's Play, but they also often develop sort of fixations on slightly older children may be a year older or to 2 years older and sort of hero worship. That worship them and follow them around and and imitate that needed more directly than they might imitate a parent now, obviously the child has his or her reasons for that and the reasons are as they're trying to advance to the next stage. So they scan the environment look for someone who seems to have done that. Well, whatever that means who looks competent as may be friendly and who could tolerate having a you know kid Trail along behind them and then they act them out and so play all the forms of play that we Grab the two basic forms are extremely important to children and when you see them pretending it as a parent, one of the things that you should realize is that it's an extraordinarily important form of activity. It's how they socialize themselves. Now, the other thing that I didn't mention this is going this is concentrating on Piaget as well. As you know, we talked a little bit in the mythological and shamanic initiation lectures about the idea that human personality evolution is a punctuated upward development. So you move ahead and then you encounter something that gets in your way some sort of severe obstacle and it either blocks you behaviourally so that you can't get to your goal using your Kurt behavioral plants or it's even more complex than that and it disrupts the whole structure that you're using to integrate your behavior across time, you know, so the difference between that would roughly be the difference between say Going home to your partner are going on a date with your partner. Assuming people still do such things are going out with your partner and them being in an irritable mood. And so what that would mean is that maybe you smile at them or you tell them a joke and you know, it falls flat or they respond in an angry Manner and so you're going to orient to that's going to make Things Fall Apart a little bit. You might say, oh the whole nights ruined you probably don't say the whole relationship is had it but if that happens enough times, you might but you might say, oh the whole nights ruined or maybe you cool, which is probably a bit of an over reaction right off the bat like my impression as a clinician is that when people are being difficult to get along with you should let them do it three times while you track it because then the third time they do it you can say look you've done this. Here's what you're doing. They see. No, I'm not doing that. And you say huh? Yes, you are because I saw you do it then and then and then and then they're basically screwed you win right away if you do that, so More, you know more seriously. If it's just one little episode, it's best to let it go. You don't really have any proof and maybe there's just some you know, local thing wrong three times. That's a whole different issue because then you've got some credibility and it's a nice balance between being too impulsively reactive. You don't cause you should stand up for yourself. Right? Well, does that mean that you should respond to every little slight? Well, you're going to be reacting all the time if you do that, but you don't want to be a pushover and let people walk all over you so you have to find some balance between being So you don't have unnecessary fights and being tough so that you don't have unnecessary fights and three is a nice number anyways, so you're out with your partner and are being annoying and you know, you can reconstruct your behavior. Maybe instead of telling jokes you look at your phone and let them calm down or something like that. You haven't disrupted much of the frame that you're using to interact with them right the night. The evening is still continuing in its planned manner you can still use the perceptual In the expectations that were guiding you they're modified at a very high resolution minor level and then so that's going to upset you a little bit because you're going to think you know, what's going on here. Maybe you'll think is there something wrong with me or are you going to if you're self-conscious you'll do that or maybe you'll think that there's something wrong with them whatever but it's not that serious. But then, you know, maybe you go on a you're out with your partner and you know some person wanders over you to rest on some person. Wanders over to the table and says hello to your partner. I don't didn't know that you had a girlfriend or boyfriend, you know, you didn't tell me that when we went out last week. Well that's going to be a whole different scenario, right? Yeah and you all laugh about that because you know perfectly well that it's a different scenario, right? And you might say well why is the one scenario more disruptive than the other and the answer that is something like If you're presuppositions about the world are arranged in a hierarchy in a sense so that the little actions that you take to do something are at the very bottom of the hierarchy there the micro details and then you continue to abstract up all the way to the top which might be I'm in a committed relationship. Now, there's levels of hierarchy going from being in a committed relationship to the little actions that you undertake with one another the higher up you have to go in the hierarchy the higher up 50s rupture occurs in the hierarchical level the more upset you're going to be so irritable partner. Well, you can sort of walk around that I'm faithful partner. Well, you know, that's pretty much up at the top of the hierarchy where you have to start rethinking your past and your present and your future and maybe who you are and who they are and who men are and who women are and it's like it's really it's a disaster right? Everything falls apart. Well, then that's the little trip to the underworld that we talked about now Piaget. I had an idea like that also with regards to children because his stage theory is a punctuated Theory one of the things he noted about children would that was that they would construct a structure and the structure would be I think again the best way to think about it as a personality because a personality has thoughts and emotions and motivations and actions. So all of those at the same time, it's this little alive sub-element of you and the children children are Conjuring up these little sub elements of themselves that have functional utility as they build themselves from their from the from their motor systems upwards and now and then they run into a situation where the tools that they've built the subpersonalities that they built aren't fulfilling the desired function. So maybe that'll happen when you know, a three-year-old goes to kindergarten and isn't making friends easily. Well that's going to be a child of come home after that cry fall apart and maybe be angry and tell their parents. No one would play with me and you know, they'll break down they'll have tears and it's almost as if they switch from a domain where they're confident like Emotion signifies, especially negative emotion signifies that you've moved from the domain in which you're competent to The Domain in which you're not confident and if you're crying, for example, then that's often a distress signal sometimes it's anger but it's often a distress signal and it means I've ended up in a situation where what I know is no longer sufficient to produce the outcomes that I desire. So you cry and then you get help people come and say well, what's the matter and they give you a little packed and You know and they can Soul you and then maybe they help you strategize about what you could do to make the situation better or how you could act or if you're a smart parent. Maybe you play with your child and offered them, you know, what an upgrade their ability to interact socially or you take them out on additional play dates or whatever and monitor their behavior and help them reconstruct their Little subpersonality so and bring in more information so that it's more sophisticated. And so that would be the pigeon idiot. So this is a combination of the Piaget and ideas of this stage Theory which is movement upward with a punctuation. That's the confusion because the previous structure is no longer well adapted to the world and then the idea of assimilation and accommodation. Now, here's a kind of made assimilation and accommodation in a sense opposites and it's not exact it's hard to figure out. Assimilation for Piaget is when you pull information in and the structure the internal structure that you're pulling it into doesn't really have to change that much an accommodation is when you pull in a fairly Mighty piece of information often negative and it's so disruptive that the structure that you're using to understand the information has to be reconstructed now PSA thinks of assimilation or accommodation, but I think it's much easier to think about it on a Continuum with the assimilation. Occurring at the level of micro behaviors, you know, like if you if you're trying to pick up a fork, you know, maybe your hands numb you try to pick up a fork and it doesn't work a couple of times. Then you just change your grip and pick it up. Like it's a little annoying you you're going to look at the fork and you're going to try a couple of routines to pick it up. But you know, it's not going to bring your whole damn world to a halt, you know, so whereas if you find a dead mouse in your soup, well that's going to be a whole different story. And again, it's a hierarchical issue and so at the bottom Near the motor structures. I would say it's easy to assimilate you just have to make minor changes to the I like to think about them as Maps really their maps are personalities that know those don't sound the same but they're very similar depends on whether the thing needs a little adjustment or whether you have to toss the whole thing away and build a new one. You know, what's the difference between tightening the lug nuts on your car buying a new car? You can see levels of you can understand it as levels of difficulty another way of thinking about it. You need to know this because you need to understand how it is that you figure out how upset you should get when something goes wrong. Because they're very very complicated question. If you wake up with this an ache in your side how upset should you be well, you don't know it's like maybe it's nothing maybe you're going to die of cancer in six months. You don't know and so it's not self-evident how people calibrate their emotions when something goes wrong because the extent of the thing that went wrong is not clearly evident. Your partner's crabby. When you go out for dinner, does that mean that you're going to break up in two weeks? Well, it might mean that so why don't you just flip out right away? As the whole world's coming to an end. Well, some people do write in those would be people who are hiring negative emotion or hiring trait neuroticism because they're more likely to react as if a small potentially small a normally or uncertainty or threat or discontinuity or unexpected occurrence is catastrophic. We're an emotionally stable person. You know, you might really have you might have to say I'm breaking up with you before they're gonna you know look upset and maybe even then it's not going to bother them that much so So so you think of the motor hierarchy, you know ranging from micro behaviors at the bottom two abstractions at the top and then you can understand how you might compute how upset you get when something goes wrong assume that it's small to begin with check at that level. If you can't fix it at that level Advanced one level up your car doesn't work. You don't buy a new one. The first thing you do is maybe see if the battery is dead right? Because that that's the path that you could take that would cause you the least amount of trouble. It's a really good schema from mental hygiene. It's like Occam's razor, you know Occam's razor in science. Right? Does it make does everybody know what Occam's razor is how many people know how what Occam's razor is? Okay. How many people don't know that's amazing. It's amazing. That's okay. Well, you should know it's really too bad that you don't know. It's undoubtedly no reflection on you. Anyways, Occam's razor is the is that a phrase referring to a What it principle that was established by an ancient thinker awesome, and he said do not multiply your explanatory principles Beyond necessity. Okay. And so what he meant was if you have six reasons why something might have gone wrong and you can rank order them in terms of complexity pick the simplest one. And then until you disprove that stick with it and then go to the next simplest one and so on so and it's often used as a guiding principle in science. Where the where the idea is. If you have a simple explanation don't complicate it up with a bunch of unnecessary assumptions and you know, it also might be reflective of a deeper underlying truth, which is that it's unlikely for any set of entities to be in any particular configuration, but it's particularly unlikely for them to be in an unlikely and complex configuration. So anyways anyways, so hopefully that's Hannibal you can tangle all those ideas together at the bottom of your personality hierarchy. There are actions that the top there are abstractions moral abstractions like be a good person when you run into something that's unexpected. The amount you get upset is proportionate to the level in the hierarchy where the damage appears to be taking place. Now, you kind of have to guess it that and partner you do that with your temperament. So if you're high in neuroticism, you guessed catastrophe and if it's low in neuroticism you guess irrelevant and you do that partly. Because of the way that you perceive your own competence, you know, because if you've encountered minor to major problems in the past say even if you're a nervous person and you've solved them you might have learned while yeah, it's a problem, but I can fix problems. So it's not really a problem which is a really good way to think of yourself. You know, that's a better way that much better way to think of yourself. Then I'm a person with no problems. It's like good luck with that, but I'm a person who could successfully address problems if I concentrated on them, and that's that's very very, useful and then The other way that your nervous system sort of decides how upset you should get when something happens is by looking at how other people treat you and if they treat you like you're competent then your nervous system gets less neurotic that that's a good way of thinking about it. You produce more serotonin. You react less. Globally to indications of error. Okay. So anyway so Piaget he talks about assimilation assimilation is when you have to make a little change in the Commendation is when the whole Dam structure has to be reconfigured and he thought about those in some sense as separate types of learning but they're not they're on they're on a Continuum from very simple to very complex have any of you ever heard of the idea of a paradigm shift. How many people have heard of that? Okay, how many people haven't? All right. Do you know the name Thomas Kuhn anybody? No, okay. Well Thomas Kuhn was a philosopher of Science and he wrote a book in 1962 called scientific the nature of scientific revolutions. Yeah, and Coon basically said the same thing about the way knowledge structures proceeded as Piaget said about the progression of knowledge structures within the individual so Kuhn was concerned about large-scale transformations in scientific Viewpoint. So let me give you an example. So in the late 1890s Physicists were convinced that they're just going to have to shut the whole Endeavor down. Why well, because the physicist knew everything there was to know there wasn't a single phenomena at that point that physicists could not account for except one and here's the one they couldn't account for. Imagine you're on a train and it's going that way at half the speed of light. and you shine a flashlight you're standing on the top of the train obviously protecting yourself Against the Wind and you shine a light going ahead. And you measure the speed of light out of your flash. Like the speed of light is 186,000 miles per second out of your flashlight. Okay. So now you're on you're on the ground you're watching this train Zip by and the guys on top of it shining the flashlight and light comes out of the front of his flashlight and you measure the speed of it. What's the speed? What you might think well, obviously it's the speed of light plus half the speed of light because the train is going half the speed of light and the light is going the speed of light and so the light coming from the combination of the train and the light is is the speed of light plus half the speed of light that's what would happen. If someone was throwing the ball, right but that is right. What happens is it's the speed of light and no matter how fast you're going when you shine your flashlight out the light coming out of your flashlight is going to be going exactly a hundred and eighty-six thousand miles an hour. Second sorry hundred eighty six thousand miles a second. It's not additive. And so if you're if you're on the train and you're backwards and your shining your light and the person measures, it's not the speed of light - half the speed of light which is what it would be if you were throwing the ball, its speed of light. Well, nobody knew how the hell to count for thats like that just made no sense at all. But everyone was ignoring it Well turns out you can't ignore that and that wasn't the only thing that wasn't quite well laid out at the end of the 19th century from the perspective of physics, but it was a big one and to solve that Newtonian physics had to be completely overthrown and quantum physics put in its place and quantum physics is quantum physics, you might think of it as a box like this and inside that there's a box that says Newtonian physics and so quantum physics can explain everything that Newtonian physics can explain but it explains some more things beside and so you would say because of that. It's a better Theory now, I'd say well you've just made a personality transformation. Are you better person than you were before? And you might say well how in the world can you make a judgment like that? And I would say well if you're a better personality, you can do all the things you could do before just as well or maybe even a little better. Plus there's a bunch of new things that you can do. That's a better personality. So another interesting example of how the idea of better which really is a moral idea in some sense better versus worse. You can conceptualize it but this is one of the things he has a is really really useful because it gives you a language that's grounded in observation and in science to start to handle questions that start to border on the moral. So better personality can do more than the previous personality could and you can certainly see how that would be applicable to your life. And one of the things I would suggest as a consequence of that is, you know, people always compare themselves to other people and generally what you do is you compare yourself you make a little dominance hierarchy out of the people that are right around you. This is a very annoying propensity because what it means is that no matter how successful you get in your life. You're still going to be in the middle of the dominance hierarchy. So you'll end up. I don't know maybe you end up God. I don't know maybe your CEO of a hundred million dollar company. Let's say well you go hang out with a bunch of CEOs and like there's 10 of them three of them are CEOs of a two billion dollar companies like your pretty little CEO among those people. But who are you going to be comparing yourself to the guys who pick up your trash? It's like No, you could but you won't you'll have your little group around you and you'll be somewhere in the middle. And so that's useful to know because that means that what you have to learn to cope with is the fact that you're going to be somewhere in the middle and then you might say well how do you cope with that? Because you should be improving and you also want to be very good at something. Well, I think the best way to do that and this is especially true when you're older is that you don't compare yourself to other people you compare yourself to the previous version of you. It's a good control right because you'll see especially by the time you're about 30 when you're young. You have to compare yourself to other people because because when you're young you're a lot like all other young people in some sense, but by the time you're 30, you're older, you're not very much like other people at all. And so, you know, because the conditions of your life start to become so unique and specific to you. Well, then comparing yourself to other people isn't very helpful, but comparing yourself to who you were before that's really helpful and you can keep doing that your whole life and it's a fair game, right? Because the previous you had all the problems and all the opportunities and positive Attributes that you have, it's fair. It's a fair game and it'll save you an awful lot of misery. So alright, so Here's the outline different forms of games and he talked about different ways that those aided in socialization and you can understand that I used this meta idea which was the hierarchy of personality to sort of explain that from a PhD in perspective. You put yourself together from your body upward towards increased abstractions. And as you do that you can do more things with your body, but you can also do more complex things integrating those things that you do with your body across time and with increasing numbers of other people now he has a has this really cool idea about what constitutes morality as a consequence of that so he would say, all right, so let's say You can choose game a or you can choose game be and you might say well I want to figure out whether game a or game be is a better game because if I'm going to play a game it might as well be a better game and so he would say, okay. So here's how you can figure out if the game you're playing is a good one. Okay, it's good for you. Now it's good for you. Now next week next month next year and 10 years from now. So not only is it good for you now, but if you play it repeatedly things get better for you. Okay, so that's that's a game where you're taking the future into account. It's not an impulsive gate, you know, like if you want to if cocaine is really really good for people for about a day but over a week or six months or five years. It's a degenerating game. So and you can't use your emotion to determine that His cocaine generally suffuses the person who's using it with a sense of power and and possibility so you can't just rely on your emotion no more than you. Can when you're tempted to do something impulsive and fun, but that might have negative consequences. Okay, so the game should be good now and across the future and then it should be good for you and it should be good for your family and it should be good for your social community and so forth as you spiral outward, and it should be good for all of those things that cross. People expenses of time and PSA would call that an equal abraded game. Now, there's another additional idea behind the idea of an equilibrated game, which is that If I'm playing a game that's good for me and it's good for you and it's good for you. And it's good for you. Then we probably will all be willing to play it voluntarily. And so that's also why Piaget believe that in some sense a game like structure. Let's say a social structure that everybody plays because they want to is much better than a game like structure where everyone plays because they have to and so he would say well that's in part the technical difference between a tyranny and a democracy. It's a bloody smart. Thinking, you know, I think Piaget got farther with that idea than anyone else had ever in history because you can understand there's this old idea. About was Hume another philosopher. What's his first name Hume? What's that David? Yes, you think I could remember that David Hume. He has this idea that you can't derive a not from an is so it's another one of those principles like Occam's razor and what it means is something like this no matter how much you know about something that doesn't mean that you can figure out what you should do about it. So here's an example. Let's say we know age is a problem. We don't cancers a problem. We know heart disease is a problem. We know poverty is a problem Etc. There's all these problems. How do you determine how you would allocate resources to those different problems? Well, it's a very very difficult problem to get out from a scientific perspective. And the reason for that is that well, there's all these variables that you would have to equate imagine you've built a spreadsheet and so you were thinking okay, which is the most Troublesome of these things and then you know, which We saw with the least amount of money. Well, the problem is is that to to determine whether something is troublesome. You still have to make a value judgment. Like there's no way you can get to the bottom of the problem without introducing the problem of value judgment and that's partly why it's very difficult to derive a not what you should do from an is what you know, and that's why there's a distinction between science and morality or science and religion. That's another way of thinking about it is that they're they're they're different domains. Now Piaget in some sense has described a way out of that because he does say well look Theory that's better than a previous theory is the theory that explains the same amount plus more and you can apply that to your personality and then a game that's better than a different game is one that benefits you and more people but it also does that over different spans of time now a game like that's very hard to compute, you know, when two people talk about environmental sustainability what they're really talking. It was a PR geriatric with equilibrated game where you can live in your family and your family can live in society and Society can operate within an economy and the economy can exist within the ecology without having it is the economy tilt the ecology so that you can't live in your family can't live in your Society can function on the Act and the economic system can't function. So there is this idea of multi-level balance, but those things are very very difficult to compute, you know, so but it's still a nice principal, you know, so if you thinking well if you need a justification for what you're doing and you want to put yourself on firm moral ground, which is really useful because then people can't push you around verbally or intellectually or any other way because you're you know, you're grounded you are standing on something solid just like you need to know. Why is this good for you as if you were someone you were taken care of? Why is it good for you across a long period of Time. How does it benefit your family? How does it benefit society and then, you know, you can keep stepping upward from So I could give you one example of someone who's doing that I think you know about that Dutch kid who figured out how to get plastic out of the oceans. He's not just whining about it and you like parading around with a sign that says, you know, I don't like pollutions like as if you need to tell people that you know, because everyone really doesn't like I don't like pollution and I'm against poverty. It's like yeah, well find someone who's for pollution and poverty anyways, this kid was about 17 something like that. He was diving around he's a diver. I think it was spear fishing and he noticed there was more plastic than fish and this wasn't a very happy discovery. And then so we started thinking about that. How can we get the plastic out of the oceans? And then he was looking at manta rays and manta rays have these big wings that help them sort of glide through the ocean and he thought about that for a while then he thought well, maybe I could build this sort of manta ray thing that lies on the surface of the ocean in a triangle and then it could be towed through the ocean and all the plastic would go to the apex of the triangle and then you could just scoop it up, but then he did his calculations and I haven't got the story quite right but at this Is basically this is basically the story. He did some calculations and found out well that's not cost effective because it takes a lot of energy to drag this thing through the water and there's a lot of water and you know, and plus you're polluting like mad while you're dragging this thing through the water and so probably it's just not that helpful, but then he realized that if you go out in the ocean, there are these massive things called gyres which are like very like huge water hurricanes, except they're very very very slow moving but they're huge. They're continents. I And so the oceans are already moved always moving. So he thought ha since the ocean is moving. There's no real reason to have to drag the the, you know, the plastic or the plastic gatherer through the water. You could just nail it to the ocean bed with tables and then just have it sit there and then the ocean would go through it all by itself. So he built a prototype which wasn't very big and he gathered up a fair bit of plastic all the Plastics in about the top foot of the ocean by the way, and it really increases in density As you move up Talk bitch, so then he built a bigger one and then he got a bunch of he went on Kickstarter and then he raised a bunch of money and then he got a bunch of Engineers to look at his idea and they said well, you know, this would probably work. So then they built a big one couple of kilometers long, which is now in place off the shore of Japan. They also said a whole flotilla of people from California to Hawaii to do a garbage estimate see how much garbage there is no water because there's a big spot in the middle of the Pacific called the great garbage spot, which is full of Of the great Plastics part doesn't matter. It's full of plastic. So they went to estimate how much there wasn't any ways. He thinks he can guide this thing to the bottom of the ocean in these big jars make it, you know hundred kilometers long in a v-shape put a kind of a collector at the end of it load all the plastic he collects up on barges go RI refine that into oil or plastic and pay for it while he's doing it. And so you can look them up. I think he's 19 or 20 now so you know, that's a good equilibrated game right that works out really? Well he gets to make some money good for him. He gets to employ a bunch of people. That's a good thing. Everybody's happy about it because good, you know, we're getting rid of the garbage and like there's no downside. So it's hard to say it's hard to come up with an argument for why that isn't a good thing and it's good not you know, it's it's good because everyone benefits all the way up. So that's an equilibrated. He collaborated State. It's a very very very smart idea. Okay? now Young Experimental psychologist don't like you. Well, they don't like Freud either and they don't have much time for clinicians in general. But that's okay. They're not trying to solve the same problems. now usually if you take a personality course, you'll cover Freud before you cover Young and the reason for that is that Freud in some ways preceded young historically and lots of people especially the Freudian like to think of you as Freud's student and there's some truth to that because Freud was the first person who really collected up ideas about the unconscious and formalize them publicize them and apply them to the problems of Pathology and mental health so good for him and Freud was unparalleled at describing pathological families, and there's plenty of those. But young was interested in something that was underneath that. I mean Freud got underneath things a lot. You know, he was also one of the first people to point out just exactly how potent sexual and aggressive motives were in shaping the way that we thought but Young um was more interested like in some sense young was more like a darwinian biologist. He was much more interested in the biological and psychological philosophical history of fundamental human behavioral patterns. And so young wasn't like a behaviorist behaviorist would think When you're born, there's nothing there except the possibility to learn things. You're a blank slate and then everything you learn as a consequence of sensor information that you're picking up and what you learn as a consequence of that but you he didn't think that at all he thought that there's a specific Human Nature. And he set out to understand what that human nature is now a couple of lectures ago. I talked to you about the characters that you might imagine making up the world that you inhabit. So I said, well you can think about the absolute unknown which is the unknown that so unknown that you don't even know. It's there. That's a something that is really really shocking if you ever encounter it and it's the sort of thing that you're exposed to hypothetically whenever you go to a whore. A movie that depends on fear, right because horror movies that depend on fear. Confront you with things that do not behave the way they're supposed to behave like inanimate objects that move, you know, if all of a sudden you discover an inanimate object that moves there's a lot that's wrong with your particular model of the world and you can kind of experience that in a horror movie because things will do things they're not supposed to do like walls will bleed that's just not supposed to happen. And so it's very upsetting to see something like that. But you're exposing yourself to that and horror movies and trying to Wow, you're trying to develop some courage because God only knows which of your fundamental major assumptions might just turn out to be wrong. So we talked about representations of the absolute unknown and I suggested that those were often associated with Serpentine predators. And then we talked about representations of culture because like every character has to contend with culture whether it's a fictional character or you you're stuck with it. You've got your culture and some of that's positive because here you are you can talk you can read it's warm, you know, you've got a bright future ahead of you and then it's also a it's also a destructive. Pirate because it's ruining the world and all those things that you already know about and then so that's culture and then there's nature because you're stuck with that too. And there's a benevolent element of nature that's usually portrayed in with feminine symbols. And that's the mother nature that environmentalists know and love and then there's much you know, Mother Nature that gives your mother cancer when she's 40 and that's the downside of Mother Nature and you're pretty much stuck with that too. Then there's you and you know, there's all the useful things about you the sort of heroic things. He's technically, you know, the parts of you that would be able to confront the unknown and to Prevail or to confront the tyrannical part of the culture and Prevail that's the positive part and then there's the negative part which is the part of you that you know, very very well that's always causing trouble for you and other people and it doesn't do what it's supposed to and is resentful and angry and Petty and mean and ignorant and blind and impulsive and rationalizing and all of these lovely things that people are more than capable of doing now those archetypes and so their archetypes because They are fundamental their the fundamental personalities that we use to orient ourselves in life. I guess that's the best way of thinking about it. Now what when you talked about an archetype, it's kind of complicated because sometimes he talks about them as instincts and sometimes he talks about them as images and sometimes he talks about them as stories, but the best way to contend with out is to understand that they're all of those at the same time. So for example, if you go to a romance, which is a kind of archetypal story you go to a romantic comedy say that means You know, the protagonists have a love affair and it turns out positively romantic comedy an archetypal structure. Well, one of the characters do it while they're driven by Instinct, obviously, so that's the instinctive level of the archetype and then it's a behavioral pattern because they're interacting with each other and it's a story because someone has selected out the major elements of the events in the way that would be most engaging to an audience and portrayed them. So the It can be all of those things at the same time. There's no contradiction. It just makes it a more complex phenomenon, its best again to think of it as a personality an archetype is a personality and an archetypal story is the manner in which an archetypal personality manifests itself across time and there's lots of archetypal stories and I can give you a couple of fundamental examples. The fundamental archetype of male behavior is the Dragon Story is confronting the dragon and that's to go out. Confront the dragon which can be all sorts of things that can be the absolute unknown. It can be the negative element of femininity, which is a dragon that stops man cold all the time. And usually what happens as a consequence is that the person gets a treasure or gets a girl. Okay the fundamental female archetype as far as I've been able to tell it's a little harder to track down it took me a long time is Beauty and the Beast And the reason I figured that out there's a bunch of reasons, but only figured it out about two years ago. And I thought yeah, of course, that's it. I read this book by the guys who guys who do data analysis at Google and it's called a billion Wicked thoughts. It's quite an interesting book. And basically what it is is a it's a study of search engine behavior. And you know, I think about 18 19 percent of search engine behavior is sexual in nature. And so that he might think well what are men doing and what are women doing? Well, You know what men are doing they're looking at pictures of naked women broadly speaking. What are women doing? Ha they're not looking at pictures of naked men. They're reading about sex. So women's pornography use is literary. And so I thought oh that that's interesting. That makes sense because Oxley women read more fiction than men by the way, women are more predisposed to read fiction women seem to be more interested in people than in things a very stable cross cultural gender difference. Anyway, so women are reading about sex and you know that if you buy if you look at when I was a kid and on holidays summer holidays my mom used to pack her out long like 30 Harlequin romances. Do you know what a harlequin? Mansions does everybody know what a Harlequin romance is. Does anybody not know? Okay, most people know it's a cheap pulp romance. You know, it's like deserving young women meets dashing and somewhat distant guy and then he's already with someone but she doesn't deserve him and then she charms him and then you know, he decides that she's actually the one and then he gets that she gets to have him and then everyone lives happily ever after so that's a Harlequin romance. Now the original Harlequin romances, they published millions of these bloody things was just Out and it was pretty plain, you know G rated story. But since the 70s Harlequin has exploded and it's gone from you know, G-rated stories of the sword. I told you to like XXX versions and and they're all very popular and those sorts of stories are also reflected in female use of the internet. And so what you see is that they looked out Beauty and the Beast stories and there's five major protagonists and this is something I think is so absolutely comical. It just killed me when I first read it. Here's the five major guys in female x-rated pornography. Okay, we're wolf. Yeah vampire. Yeah surgeon. Yeah billionaire. Yeah pirate. So it's not funny man. Just blew me over but you know, it's not much different in some sense than the male archetypal story of confronting the dragon right? Because and I'll show you something from Sleeping Beauty that makes this very clear what I'll show you that today because you know if you think about it, so these are kind of bad guys. Well the word wolf in the vampire in particular, right? But there's the pirate sword up there too. And you might think we'll why would men like that figure in women's archetypal sexual narratives. And the answer to that is well. What the hell good is a man who can't be dangerous right? You think about that and you know, this bloody theme is played out in romantic comedies all the time. Think about there's there's the girl and she has a friend he's a guy he's kind of a guy that Never grew up. He's usually what's his name. There's a comedian Seth. Rogen is usually Seth Rogen, you know, he's kind of joseon. He's kind of funny and he's her friend, but he really wants to sleep with her and she knows that so she knows that he's not just her friend and he hasn't just her friend. He just likes to pretend that you know, and then there's the guy that she's interested in who's not like Seth Rogen and he's got an edge to him, you know, and then the story is usually well if plays out there's an interplay between those three characters and you know the set Rogan guys always going well, why doesn't she like me and the answer is well, you just watch him for ten minutes and you know, why part because she doesn't want a friend. She wants someone who's good for something and someone who's good for something as someone who's got a powerful Edge and part of what happens in the female archetype is that the female civilize has that at least in relationship to herself Okay, so And then well and then as far as I'm concerned, that's not much different. As I said already did the male hero myth. So I'm going to show you first. I'm going to show you something from Sleeping Beauty. So, let me just find it here. What's the universal video player you'll see? Yeah. Yeah, that's the one thanks. I got to download it because well they say strip this machine every night. And so you have to always download things over and over. so Okay, so let's talk about the structure of Sleeping Beauty for a minute. So there's a king and a queen. and You know, they live in a kingdom logically enough and they're trying to have a baby and that doesn't work out very well. And then all of a sudden, you know, after time passes they have this baby girl, and her name is Aurora. So that's sort of a reference to the sky obviously, right and you often see with archetypal characters that they're Affiliated in some sense with Cosmic phenomena. So for example, you know kings and queens have crimes right and then Different Divine figures have Halos. Well, there's not much difference between a king a crown and a Halo and the crown is the Sun a little points on it. Those are the Rays of the Sun or it's the Moon. It depends on whether the crown is made out of gold or silver because gold is a solar metal and silver is a lunar metal. And so when something is associated with the cosmos, that means that it's gone from the spirit purely personal to the to the impersonal or the Personal or the archetypal and the archetypal wouldn't be not your father. But the father as such like the spirit of the father, not your mother, but the spirit of the mother has such and so when you have the king in the queen, you have the Sun and the Moon you have the ruler of the night. They started the rumor of the night sky, you have the ruler over everything that the light touches and you have the transpersonal figures of mother and father. Okay. So now you see this in lots of movies and and Hero Stories in comic books. So the most commonly portrayed pattern is that the hero has two sets of parents, right? Harry Potter. He's got the dursleys and they make them live Under the Staircase and then he has his brother cousin. What's his name? What's that Dudley? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes the long version of done so Dudley and you know, he's a bad brother. So they're actually the archetypal hostile Brothers Harry Potter heroin adversary and then he's got his ordinary parents and those are the parents that well they're real ordinary. They live in an English suburb and they're extraordinarily conservative and narrow-minded. They don't want anything to do with anything magic whatsoever. And then he has his Heavenly parents who are his Parents, right and they come back in spirit form now and then throughout the movie when he really needs them so Superman. It's got his Earthly parents in his Heavenly parents, right? If you go into on the Wikipedia and you look up orphaned hero, I think they have a hundred and sixty of them listed same Motif over and over. The reason for that is well. First of all, when you're a teenager one thing you think our is are these really my parents right? And so an answer to that is yes, and no. And it's yes in that obviously from a strict. Immediate biological perspective they're your parents, but from an architectural perspective. It's like well. You have parents going back three and a half billion years. Your parents are just the latest in a very very very very long line of parents. And so the reason you call your father dad or father, whatever you happen to call them is because it's in recognition of the fact that the role you the relationship with you. How do you have with him to some degree isn't personal its architectural? He's the father he plays that role for you and you know, you can even tell when he's playing it property because you might tell your friends, you know, my I don't have a very good father. Well, how the hell do you know that? You know, it's sort of like you've got this idea in your mind about what a good father would be like and if he's not doing that then it's not him, you know subject to your teenage in childhood misinterpretations. And you know, I have an awful mother. It's like real compared to what well compared to the ideal mother while you might say well just who is this ideal mother? Well, you can see her in religious representations all the time. So in Christianity, for example, you see your represented as the Virgin Mary who's the perfect mother and that's why she's a holy figure and she's he's a holy figure partly an archetypal figure. Let's say because any society that doesn't worship the mother and the infant dies. It has to be sacred because everybody starts everyone has that relationship and if the society doesn't support a property and value it properly then well, then there's something seriously wrong with this Society so Now Sleeping Beauty king and queen baby Okay, so we've got the we've got the familial Triad going there. So then they decided they're going to Christen your they're going to name her not sort of when she becomes an individual and they make a mistake when they're going to Christen her. What's the mistake you remember how many of you have seen Sleeping Beauty? Yes, and how many of you have it? Okay, so Of those who haven't have you seen other Disney movies. Have you seen other Disney movies? Lion King, okay anything other than that? Okay. Is there anybody here who's never seen an animated Disney Disney movie? Okay. Okay fine. Well, so you see how densely there wasn't anyone as far as I can tell you see how densely distributed throughout the culture those stories are you know, even though they you know, they're very very old stories. But even in a movie form, they're quite old for movies. Okay. So the mistake they make is they don't invite the way evil queen to the christening. That's Maleficent. Well, obviously there's a satanic undertone to that and you know that because she's got these black horns that she wears and but she's got this cape. That's basically on fire. You can tell that she's an evil person and so she's an archetype. She's the naked. She's the archetype of the negative feminine actually and it's a very very smart story. You think well, why would you invite something like that to your daughter's christening, especially if you've been waiting for her forever, and she's a real princess and everything is perfect. It's like okay. Here's another story. So as another archetypal story, so there's these kids their mother gets their father. I think it's divorced separates her as wife dies or whatever and so he picks up with this new woman and she decides she doesn't really like these kids very much and by that happens a lot by the way, so if you have a stepparent you are 100 times more likely to be physically abused. So it's the biggest single risk factor. It's up there with having a drunk parrot. So anyways Nasty little statistic, you know, it's hard enough to tolerate kids, but when there's someone else's kids then it makes it even more difficult and that's a Freudian observation and it's no joke and people are not that friendly and there's terrible jealousy like, you know, if a if a man and a woman start going out and the woman has children and the man is jealous and the children get in the way especially if they also bother him because maybe they're not that happy that he's not actually their father. Maybe he's just a creep for you know, you never know. Well the tension that can build up in a situation. In like that can rapidly become absolutely unbearable it can last forever. So anyways So she tells her new husband take those damn kids out in the bush and see if you could lose them. And so he's not very happy with this. But I guess he's wrapped around the finger of his new wife and not very bright and kind of evil on his own. So he takes the children out into the forest and leaves the Marin. So this is kind of hard on the children's like they're out in the wilderness, which is maybe how you feel when your mother dies and you know, your father goes and marries a new woman you're out in the bloody Wilderness and they get lost and then they're lost and they're all freaked out because they're lost and they're going to starve and wolves are going to eat them because this is like Medieval Europe forest and it's full of wolves and they eat people and so And they're wandering around out there and they come across a gingerbread house. Now if you're a skeptical person and you're not naive the first thing you think is this is too good to be true. It's like yeah house. Okay, fine a shack, maybe even a lean-to sure that could happen but a house that's also made out of candy. It's like nah, there's something going on there. That's not so good. You know the kind of person that's really nice to you. But really, isn't you remember again the Harry Potter series Member that woman she was a bureaucrat. She had a little plates of kittens. I'm rich Dolores Dolores means sad, right? I'm Bridge means to take offense. So she's the sad woman who takes offense and she's got all these pictures of kickings on her on plates right there on ceramic plates. And so those are like hyper sentimental like, oh aren't they cute at their own plates and everything and we'll put them on her wall. And you know, it's like really low end taste and the sentimentality is A facade you would call that a Persona of benevolence. But remember all Dolores Umbridge. She's not exactly your benevolent type. In fact, you know, you let her loose on the world and horrible things happen. What's her name? The woman who wrote Harry Potter she got that exactly right? It's one of her best characters, I think so. She's got that, you know, fake voice that you often hear people who actually don't like children use when they're talking to children who aren't you the cutest little thing like you You can actually talk to children and they actually like that and then they don't think that you know, you're possessed by something that they should run away from this fast as possible. Anyways, so Hansel and Gretel the woman comes out. She's all nice and she said, oh children, you're lost in the forest. Why don't you come in and have some gingerbread and so then she puts little Hansel in a cage like a Birdcage I think and she gets Gretel to do all the slavery stuff, you know, so she's not so nice. Then every day she goes she's stuffing them well with Gingerbread and then she goes and feels little hassles Lake to see if he's nice and plump so that she can throw them in the stove and eat him and what that means is that beware of people who are too nice to you because what they're trying to do is devour you and it's the prime dictum of Freudian Psychopathology. If you have a parent now Freud concentrated mostly on mother's because mothers are more likely to do this because for a variety of reasons that we're not going to talk about probably because they Oriented towards babies but whatever. If you're too nice to your child, and you do everything for them what happens to them? Well, then they can't do every anything for themselves. And so then what happens well, then they live in your basement till they're 50, you know, and then they get irritated one day and they shoot up Dawson college. So there's a deep metaphor in the story and the story is if it's too damn good to be true. It's probably aiming at your destruction. Okay now back to Sleeping Beauty. So Sleeping Beauty Aurora is going to be christened and they decide not to invite the evil queen to the christening. Now that's not a very good idea. One time I had this is a composite client. So this person all she wanted to do was sleep. So she'd sleep like 16 17 hours a day and she was doing that partly was sleeping pills because it's hard to sleep that much but left to our own devices. She would just sleep. Now. You might say well, why would someone want to do that? And then you could say well for the same reason that people drink themselves into unconsciousness and Oblivion, which is like it's painful to be conscious, especially when your life isn't going that well, maybe you're afraid of things and so why be awake and suffer when you can be unconscious and not Softer and so that was basically her idea and she was she was a vegetarian and she was terrified of butcher shops and she was terrified of raw meat and that was logical because she was sort of terrified of life and if you're going to be terrified of life, you really think about it. So the whole bloody raw meat part of life that you're more or less terrified by it. So that was very concrete ties to in her situation. And so I used to take her to supermarkets through the raw meat section because that's what you do in Psychotherapy in case any of you want psycho. Therapy, you have to do the thing you least want to do and so that's not particularly fun. That's the gateway to Enlightenment. You walk through the gate where you least wanted well, so now, you know why people aren't enlightened because it's not all fun and games and follow your bliss and all that nonsense. It's like figure out what you're afraid of and avoiding and confronted voluntarily. So anyways, I got a little background from her and her mother who I met who is definitely the evil queen. I mean she yelled at me. Like 45 minutes in my office. It was really quite remarkable. I hadn't had any one. I've only had one other person yell at me in my office ever and she was also definitely an evil queen but this woman she was just something else like it was just jaw-dropping to watch her perform and she used to phone up my client all the time three or four times a day and tell her how stupid and useless she was and so if you if you have parents that phone you up like every day and tell you how stupid and useless you are then it's perfectly within your rights to not talk. To them because that isn't what they should be telling you. So then you can say well, how about if I call you instead of you calling me and how about if it's once every two weeks instead of three times a day and how about if you say anything nasty, I just hang up and then I don't talk to you for a month and then you might say oh I couldn't do that to my mother and then I would say well that's because she already won. So anyways this girl her mother loved her to death when she was little she was perfect. She was a princess when she was little but then of course she hit puberty, you know. And that's the end of the whole princess thing because then of course you want to go out and have a life and maybe you know associate with boys and do all that sort of thing. That's not the least bit child princess like and that's when everything broke down and started to go in a very very bad Direction and that was partly because her mom didn't want to invite the evil queen to her little daughter's life because the evil queen is like the negative part of Nature and like if you if you have a little girl, well the probability that she's going to grow up and be A teenager and then a woman is pretty high unless you do something to seriously interfere with that which you might and so you bloody well better be prepared for that when she's three and not treat her like she's someone whose feet are never going to touch the Earth. You have to have the whole element of life in there. Right? I had another client her parents taught her that adults were angels and I don't mean metaphorically, they actually taught her that and in doing so they set her up for Various post-traumatic stress disorder which he had for about five years because she ran into someone who wasn't an angel surprise surprise and all he did to her roughly speaking was look at her like he wanted to kill her and you think well, nobody could be traumatized like that. It's like well a probably no one's ever looked at you like that. So don't be so sure but be if they did look at you like that and you thought that adults were Angels then you were pretty much nicely set up to have post-traumatic stress disorder. So Anyways, you might think that you're doing your children a big favor by keeping the evil queen out of their Nursery, but you know, you might let them see a glimpse of her now and then so they can get used to the fact that she exists, you know, and I guess that's why children have pets in part right? Because like mice they don't last very long. So you have a live mouse for a while. Then you have a dead mouse and that's not very good. But then there's some things that you get accustomed to. Well you're doing that and maybe it's not so good to protect your children from that because they're going to have to grow up and survive it. Awful world and your job isn't to make them happy your job is to make them able to survive in the nasty real world. Anyways, okay. So that's what happens with Sleeping Beauty at the beginning. It's like Hansel and Gretel and then the evil queen shows up anyways, because good luck keeping her out of your house and she basically says, yeah. Well, that's all well and good. I'm you know, there's nothing I can do about it, but common puberty roughly speaking in the Sleeping Beauty. She's going to prick her finger on a needle own eyes. Spinning wheels. So there's blood involved there. So we don't have to use our imagination too much to imagine what that means. It's like I'm going to come back and then all hell's going to break loose and of course then the parents really protect her which is exactly the wrong thing to do and what That's the Sleeping Beauty story. Of course, the prince comes along and he eventually figures out how to solve this problem. Like she needs him. He's a pretty good guy. Then the evil queen puts him in a dungeon. It's like her basement and then she's going to keep him there till he's so old that he can't even ride and he's been laugh at him as he tries to leave and then He tries to leave and she turns into a dragon. It's like what the hell? Why is she turning into a dragon? But you accept that's no problem course the evil queen turns into a dragon. What else would she do and then she you know spouse fire out him and he fights her off and then he has to hack his way through all the thorns and thistles that have gathered around the castle and then he wakes the girl up and The Fountains come back on and everyone's happy and you all think that's an excellent story so and it is an excellent story, but it's a weird story because it's an archetypal story and You understand it at an archetypal level. I mean, let me show you some of it and then and then I'll talk a little bit more about it. So. Let's look at the beginning to begin with. Oh, yeah. Sorry. This is this is a class. So I don't want you to actually enjoy the movie. So I'm going to play around with okay, so tell me about the book. Is the valuable book or not? How do you know hey it's covered with gold and jewels hit right there. There's something valuable about this. See you. Yeah, that way I guess. Yeah, it's a valuable book. It's called gold and jewels, why are why is gold valuable? It's rare. Yeah, it's like the sun looks like the sun's what else it's morally pure gold. Why because it does well, it is wealthy. It's morally pure because it won't mix with other metals. It doesn't mate with other metals. It's imperishable and it doesn't tarnish. So it's a symbol of Purity and jewels. Why are why are they beautiful invaluable forget about rare? Yeah, they're shiny but even crows can appreciate that. So what a shiny have to do with it. Do you think son? Yeah reflects light, right. So what do you want a good person to do? Well, maybe you might say that. Yeah. Yeah, they reflect light and the reason it's interesting because the reason the crystals how are the way they are translucent and reflect light is because their internal structure a crystal is a lattice of molecules. And then that lattice is precisely replicated everywhere in the Also, it's one thing all the way down to the molecular level. And so one of the things that you might think is that if especially if you think about that hierarchical model that we were talking about is that if you were as well put together as you could be and had maybe been subject to the right amount of heat and pressure that you would be the same thing at every single level of being and then you'd be solid and crystalline and you would reflect light and so So anyways, you get a hint right off the bat that this is that this story is valuable. In a Faraway land lived a king and his spare fully many years had they longed for a child and finally their wish was granted but daughter was born they called her Aurora. Yes, they named her after the dawn for she filled their lives with sunshine. Then a great holiday was proclaimed throughout the Kingdom so that all of high or low estate my pay homage to the infant princess and our Story begins on that most joyful day. And so to her his gift he brought and looked unknowing on his future bride. So these are the good elements of the feminine here. And they give her various gifts. not what All right. Well we're out of time. I'll show you a bunch more of this mixed mixed class and we'll see what it means. This podcast is brought to you and made possible by generous financial aid from Peter kanzler K. Ay n z l-- e-- r-- you can buy his Amazon books at your favorite Amazon Branch, for example, the original texts of lock Hobbs. In the US Constitution of Pennsylvania put together into one book for only $15. Thanks for listening.
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