Hey everybody. I'm Ashley Graham. And this is pretty big deal. We're confidence is key every episode I get to pick the brains of brilliant and inspiring honest new and old friends who are a pretty big deal. Y'all ain't even ready for our guests today. She is a self-made CEO and advocate for women Cindy Eckert. I'm so excited. I have see Checker today on the podcast and I think it'sHow long have we known each other now? I was thinking about that is three years. That's what I thought and do you want to do you want to tell people how we met? Oh, I'm happy to okay go for it. I think it's really interesting. I can tell I guess I said, I don't mind. Yes. Okay, so I was glamour woman of the year three years ago, and I had a Barbie in the whole face and and there was an auction on eBay and you could bite. I time with me and which I had never done before and I never even liked thought that that was like something that someone who want to purchase and I told glamour I was like sure let's do it. Let's see. Let's see what weirdos come out of the woodwork. Hahaha and next thing you know, they're like, oh, yeah, this woman named Cindy bought you like fun. Really? Yeah right bought your time. And I think that was it set up where we were going to do before was like, where do we already? Dictate it you guys are tainted it. Okay, so we did a full-on photo shoot. Yes, and then we were supposed to work out at my gym. So first of all, we had the bombshell photoshoot. Yes, and I got Cindy and her bra I got in a Shaker when you're abroad prior time. Yes. That was true. I almost got down to my skivvies. I almost got you there. But we're in jeans you can Google it. It's really hot. And then we were supposed to go work out. And I said, do you really want to work out and you kind of Wonder like you shook your head no neck. Thing, you know, we went downstairs and went straight to Shake Shack had burger fries. I don't think we had Coke. I think we had like water maybe and you told me your whole story and I was in a murder because I had no idea who I was meeting that. Yeah. Sure and you were like, yeah, I'm this lady who this lady who sold my company for a billion dollars and I want to be I want to be a part of your business and I want to be an advocate for you and I thought in that moment. Who bought this time? Did I buy this time or did you buy this option because it was like it was honestly as a blessing it was truly because you've been such a blessing and I think that what you do and you stand up for women you advocate for women in business is very important because I've heard you say so much that you haven't had female mentorship and yeah, it's been very difficult for me to find it as well and certain Avenues. So that's how we met that. I my stories it's perfect and I'll proceed that by saying I'd seen you speak at Forbes with That's right. I thought you were outstanding then. I was literally invited to go to glamour woman of the year. I was at the ceremony where you were being awarded and this announcement was made and I'm like I want to spend time with Ashley who doesn't want to spend time with Ashley Never thinking that it would play out that way and and truly like such a gift to get to see that you are exactly as you appear. Like I say that to people all the time they asked me what's Ashley like and I'm like what you see is what you get. Yeah. There is no fakery of that and And I think that's so refreshing. I love what you do for women. Thank you. Yeah. Well, it's a very unique story and I'm so glad that we get to share it with everybody and I got to see what it's like to go to Shake Shack as a model where everybody comes around there. Like would you like anything else? It's all of a sudden became like a full-service restaurant like they came up in there like more fries. Would you like a shake? Could you like this? That's some free fries or something like me you did just to be clear. Oh my goodness. So and also has your podcast going good. It's good. You know, it's Sorry, I feel so fortunate to have like I see colorful characters in my life. And I hear these straight stories of success and how they got there. And it's really like I just want people to have a moment listening into our conversation. So, you know, you got to make time for it. So I've got to make time for the business has been crazy this year. I know I'm excited to talk about it and something else that I just realized too is I didn't realize that you had moved around every single year of your life, which I thought was interesting. I've lived in six different states, but You've lived in 12. That's right. I think I've lived overseas twice. I think I stopped counting at 32 moves. But ever the most like every single year from the fourth grade through my senior year of high school. I changed schools. So Perpetual new kid. So what's the good thing about that? And what's the bad thing about them? So the bad thing was at that moment in time like you left and you were out like there was no we're not going to email each other or anything else Facebook the Fiji islands. I lived in when I was Girl, so, you know, I wasn't long distance calling back to Fiji my group of friends. So that's the sad thing is lost Connections in some way. But the great thing is you get really comfortable being the Perpetual Outsider because when you show up as a new kid in school like you are not going to be popular you're not going to be the cool kid, and it really I think teaches you to sit on the outside of the room and observe everything that's going on and I think it's given me a lot of fearlessness and taking on things as an outsider. Do you think that That fearlessness you've kind of learned to twist into your businesses for sure. Is that kind of where the love of business came about? You know, I grew up sis is such a ridiculous Story by grew up in Rochester New York, like wrong side of the tracks like little neighborhood rather Irish, we're Italian and every Sunday my family went to Wegmans wide-ranging super weird. So I'm Waitin have a follower of Wegmans. I heard about this like it's a little it's crazy starving, but you talk to people and like it has a cold. Following and I think from a little girl. I've always loved like what makes a business Tech it's-- that my big I've two big brothers and they would tell you that every game I played as a child was with me as a CEO which really was just then manipulating me because they would make me have CK's kitchen Cindy Karen and it was so that I would go and deliver things to them on the couch from the refrigerator. It was actually the only way they'd play with me because you're the baby's such turds. Yeah. Geez Waits three kids your age baby. I'm the baby two big brothers. I know you very personally and on the outside your this like very like well put together. I wear pink. I have a pink lipstick. I have my hair done. But yeah, she is a badass like show cursor. She'll be like no you fucking deserve something nice just like that's ending and it's because you have two older brothers. Oh my God that memo of like you gotta protect you and your sister did not get it. Like they thought their job was to toughen me up for the world and to this day. They did a good job. They're just they didn't really good. So is it Wegmans that actually inspired you the Ridiculousness of that story is I think it started a pattern where I was like weirdly obsessed with what make companies work. And then I think that if you factor that in with this like really unusual childhood of being this Outsider sort of like as I started to look at business when everybody else was running away, it was my signal to run in. Hmm and I became fearless and taking on the things that nobody else would take on and to me they were so obvious like Pharmaceuticals. Well, like female Viagra. Yeah, like the seriously there's 26 drugs for men but not a single one for women. I can't wait to start talking about this but I want to start I want to give I want to kind of do chronologically so people know how you got here because it's not like one day you woke up and you were like, hey, you know what? I'm not really feeling like having sex like that's really not even the story. So I had a professor who like new this Obsession of mine with businesses. Okay, so she would make me do an extra project where I would read about companies and Weren't like what made them great. So we have like a side project. I would you know read all the magazines come in and tell her and through that honest to God. I made a decision. I'm going to work for fortunes most admired company. It was it didn't matter what industry it was in or anything else. Like I'm going to go learn from the best at the time that best was Merc, which is a pharmaceutical company and I was Hell Bound and determined I'm hired by Merck and I think my professor got a little freaked out. She was like, yeah, you should probably send your resume out to a couple places. I'm like Merck and I got the job. And that's really what started it. Wow tunnel vision is like I want to be with the best want to learn from the best and I think the surprise for me was that I fell in love with the science interesting. How long were you at Merck for years as Merck where you got the idea to start now, it murk was the the training ground that said, holy shit. I can't be in a big environment. Like I need to be heard. I need them to do it my way and I was very clear very quickly that they were fortunes. Most of Marcus had a great PR Men, and I was a number and it was in take me a long time to be heard. And so I made this crazy decision to go to what at the time was a start-up right like way back before that was cool for startups were like the thing to be a part of okay. So this is a question that I've heard you ask a lot of people and so I want to flip it back on you and it's what was the first way that you ever thought about making money. Oh, yeah, or how did you ever first start making money? This is a question. You ask a lot of people that you hire honest I do I always ask. That question and can I tell a story first about somebody I just hired please so so it was great because I was asking this question. How'd you ever make money? And she said, you know like oh, I was a babysitter and she started telling great and then she's like, but that's not really the first way I made money. I'm like, ooh tell me and she said well when I was really little my mom had a garden and she would pick all the tomatoes and put them in a pretty basket and asked me to take him to the neighbor. She's like, but when I got there, I sold them and I was Hired Hustler tired. Love it right how she doing in the company number-one salesperson and and I call her I nicknamed everybody. So her nickname is heirloom tomatoes and like that. It says so much to me about like scrappiness, right? Like when are you starting to want to own it for yourself? It least to work in my company's you got to love that ownership piece. I think my earliest days money was probably a hustling my brothers. That's it. Hustle good hustle. Yeah, and I like how you've taken your team that you so that you love just so much because they're you've even had some like I mean, I know Nikki from the beginning. Yeah, but you took everybody to Zappos. Yes. And you said hey look Zappos is doing something right that I like. Yes. Learn what what happened there. And how do we find about? Well, we had this opportunity to do customer service. I know what like no pharmaceutical company does well customer service. No, you said I look around and I'm like well shit. Shit, we can't learn from anybody in our industry. Let's go learn from the best and so took the entire company out there and it really shaped our thinking it Curiosity has been the key right curiosity is everything to me. It tells me so much about a person in an interview and everything else. Like how do you go continually learn from the best which I swear to God. I was born out of the fact that every time I asked my parents for help with my homework, they would say the same forwards without fail. They would say what do you think interest which was infuriating like just help me? I need an a I want to win the science project whatever it was but my parents were never going to play into that. It was really about cultivating curiosity because they didn't give me the answer. I was going to have to go figure it out. I was probably going to get that answer from a bunch of different people and form my own opinion and it created this reels Independence and ownership that I think matters. Wait a second. So as like a almost new mom. Yes, I'm going to need to take that into you. We so quickly like we are especially parents right or I Watch and observe. I get it the temptation to be like here and let me help you with this and let me do that. And of course, right but at the same time like what is the moment where you really kind of force that creative Gene and a curiosity that's going to take them so much further in life. Wow, so much further. Wow, dropping knowledge or the baby was not even here ha ha ha enter. Yes. That's all I'm gonna say. What do you think? I love that so much. Okay. So now I want to talk about sprout. Yeah, I want to talk about a deal. Yeah, it's not I did not Viagra it's not but I want to talk about how you started it. What made you want to start Sprout? So I'd been in and explain Sprout. Yes. So Sprout has the fda's first and only pill for the most common form of female sexual dysfunction. What is it? It's that we actually have no desire for sex. And this is not a issue down there for us. This is a mental issue totally in the brain. So desire turns on in the brain and from desire you get aroused and hopefully you orgasm and but everything gets started for us in the brain for me. It was very scientific. I built a company with one of the male sexual drugs I built it. There were 26 of them for men 26 different options. So you built a 27th know that mine was one of the 26. Okay got it. So I'm you know building this company. I know this space really well the Jurors research women and men and I'm going how the hell is are not a single one for women despite the fact that the prevalence of this is the same as men having Ed but not a drug for us. You know, why because we say, oh one doesn't matter if a woman is having satisfying sex. You can have sex whether or not it's pleasurable. Right? And the second is oh, it's just just had a bath just drink a glass of wine. Just go on vacation. We chalk so much up to psychology that we will Pletely Overlook biology and women and I knew biologically that women who had this condition had a biological basis for it. And I knew it because there's brain scans show that so to me again everybody runs away not because the science wasn't spectacular but because of the societal narrative that they know is going to stand in the way of progress because yet again, we're just the problem. Yeah, and we have a we say we have a problem but nobody wants to fix it except for Cindy Eckert. So but how did you take Sprout? Yeah and sell it for a billion. Because that to me, I mean I you and I have sat down personally you've told me about the the the woes of actually getting the 1 billion. Yes, but can you tell everybody and that's front so it was actually an incredible path to break through with the first-ever drug for female pleasure. And so it was crazy to go through this path and the path wasn't straight because the FDA turned us down and then I disputed the FDA. So I fought the government fought the government because we had 13,000 women worth of data in which we had met our endpoints and double-blinded placebo-controlled trials, right? It's scientific to me and yet again, this narrative was keeping the blinders on and when I won it I think all of the big guys who would have never taken this on were like, holy shit. Holy shit. Who is this lady? Fortuna T is extraordinary, right? So they were you getting phone calls left and right at that point as soon As soon as the signal was there that the FDA was going to prove holy cow They Came Calling. They were at my doorstep the minute. I disputed the government. So rewind a little bit back and here we are this little company, you know that nobody's ever heard of Nightline showed up at the front door. Are you kidding they did because who is taking on the government at for about female sexual pleasure? And what was so funny? I tell the story all the time at the company was on the 10th floor of this building and I had this great band of like, you know, the little company that could and literally right after night line shows up like the next Monday. Everybody's going up the elevators and people are like I know what you do on the 10th floor now, there are so freaked out. That's true you right here knew what was the first offer that you got money wise? Oh, yeah. It was 200 million were like 200 million. Please please I will tell you this one is so there were three different parties that that were really sort of all jockeying for it and at the final the one who became the Victor gave a nine hundred million dollars. Offer and I said, well that doesn't have a be on the end of it. Did you say it with the laughter in your voice and click by I was gonna do it myself. I knew its value like the reality is I didn't pull a fast one. It was worth like the category for the ED drugs the same prevalence of condition as this condition for women. It's a five six billion dollar category. Globally. This drug has extraordinary potential. So I was Going to have them get a bargain. Like are you kidding? You're going to pay me a million up front and then pay me Downstream. But then that is what have you had fun. I have to tell you what are the odds that confidence. The one of the offers came and one of the most funds they had flown down the companies based in Raleigh. Like we were in some, you know conference room at a hotel and they were so proud they're going to make us this offer and they vary dramatically like made this offer and they said we're gonna let you all consider it and I was in there with lawyers and everything else and they walked The other room and I looked around the table and I said, okay, they walk back in five minutes get up walk out and I had a big binder of like all our accolades all our press everything else and so they came back in and I said, thank you very much. I'm so flattered by that offer. We're going to do it by ourselves and we get up like I'm looking everybody get up team go and one lawyer is with me and she keeps going the binder the binder leave it leave it leave it. So what is she walked out? And why did I leave the binder? Because it's going to make them call me back and that's who calls you back and they called me back and they're like we have your binder. I'm like, oh no, it's okay. You keep it. It's all for you and they kept going back. We should really give you the binder back. I knew the door was open and we were going to continue the conversation. It's all about strategy. Got to negotiate. You gotta know what you have and you gotta be a little bit reluctant always I think to give it up. What does it feel like now to actually know that you got through this process and you did it by yourself. I don't that's as such. A good question. I honestly think I haven't processed all of it. I woke up the next day. I sold it for billion dollars. Everybody said what happened? I woke up the next day. I'm still Cindy Eckert like I still get up and go to work. It's what I love to do and my financial guy showed up not that long ago for a meeting in the office. And he said, well you live in the same house and you drive the same car and he looks me cuz and I'm pretty sure you were wearing that the last time I saw you awesome, so we're good and I think You know, you have more zeros in the bank account, but you still want to do the things that set you on fire. It's not like you saw the billion and he thought oh, I'm going to retire and buy an island. Are you kidding? I would be that would be deadly like what the fuck would I be doing. There's too much work to be done and and a long time ago. I think I decided my work is my hobby my hobbies my work. I love what I do. Okay. I want to talk about people like you. I know this is I mean thank God you didn't retire because I wouldn't be getting the inside scoop on so many things let's talk about That s word sex. Well as I am about sex baby, I mean you get to talk about it every day. I do my publicist tells me to stop talking about it. Don't don't do it. It's always my secret every time I'm asked to quit an interview like what's your secret to this what you see you every time Universal answer sex. Yeah. I mean XX like it's very important part of yeah anybody's life and you know in my relationship it's important and I've talked about that openly and and I think There's nothing wrong with talking about sex. Absolutely, but I think the worst thing that we can do is not talk about it. Especially when we're talking about HSS D. Yeah, which I had no idea was was even a situation. Can you explain what a d actually does so so for some women they lose interest in having sex. They were one's happy with it something changed and that changed your point is causing them a lot of distress like if it breaks down, Down in the bedroom. It probably has broken down across the breakfast table. They're less connected. And by the way, even forget the partner Dynamic like they've lost their Moxie of how they show up in the world. And so for that group of women, what we have learned is that there can be your brain is basically working against you when it comes to sex. So we're very animalistic when we have sex. We need like this perfect balance of excitement and inhibition and what our brain actually does is it shuts down. If you watch on brain scan images when people have sex they sort of like they turn everything off like by to-do list by this worried by work, whatever it may be so that I can have sex. Well, I have to have like a really great orgasm 8 write it down, but for some women they lose because of an imbalance in the brain. They can't shut it down and what they describe is they actually will say like women with this conditional say I'm lying in bed and I'm going I got to do this tomorrow. I got to do that to her and I know we're all were busy. Z right, but they really something has changed. They know it the switch turned off. And so what a d does is it works to restore the balance so that you're receptive again, like you have that biological drive you once did and what it isn't is like I'm gonna pop a pill I'm going to see a hot waiter and be like you me let's go right. It's like all of a sudden women in our trials Coke. I had a fantasy can't remember the last time I had a fantasy wait. Okay, so the symptom is actually called hypoactive sexual. Will desire syndrome disorder disorder? Yes, and how did you even find out about this? It's been in a medical literature for four decades for 30 years 40 years that it was first characterized in 1977, but nobody wanted to fix it. Correct did women I mean you were talking about this earlier? I was like, oh go take a hot bath. Yeah. I have a glass of wine. Yes. What like, how did you even get into the sex world? I'm Irish Catholic need I say more. Actually sex scientifically sex is so cool because we have learned so much and actually medically if we look at Medical advances in the last couple decades, the biggest Advance has been brain scan Imaging so for conditions that are affect the mind the brain like now of us and we can see so what do I mean take a woman with the normal of them flow of Desire? Sometimes she's not in the mood honey, not tonight. But like, you know, she's likes their level of Desire take a woman with a STD put them both in an MRI expose them to some kind of erotic stimuli their partner porn, whatever it may be brains light up totally differently totally differently. So you see in these women that their brain isn't quieting to have sex and for me in black and white science had already given us the answer like we knew that this was outside of her control and the fact that what we were doing is saying, oh I sex your lingerie. Oh read Fifty Shades of Grey was so obnoxious to me. It's so dismissive of what we know scientifically and then I got on my horse and rode. Hey, so no way are we going to let that be the State of the State for women weren't take it. Seriously. I'm sure a lot of women are praising your name right now, like Susan said and partners. I did not care about this drug. It's like if you They cared about having sex so much. Why do you care about the person you're having sex with? Yeah, what's funny is I just had a doctor described it to me this way. She said she'd put a patient on a d they walked back into her office and she said and the minute she walked in just like I knew it was working because she was just showing up different right she was back in that, you know the next game because if our ceiling at first I thought oh a d it makes you wet, you know, yeah. Yeah, and it's not a brothel arousal. It's not about that. It's a mental. Ality, and if I really think about the times where I just did not want to have sex. Yeah, it was a mental thing. It wasn't because of what's Happening below my belly button. It's that's right, or I could just say vagina. It's actually my podcast. Vajayjay. I think partially the reference that we were female Viagra which the media like ran with and it's delicious like two words. The context was right. This was a breakthrough for women and for us to get many more options for our sexual, you know dysfunctions, Bedroom if things go wrong, but Edie and Viagra is a mechanical like hydraulic lift issue. That's all it is. The truth is if men don't have desire Viagra won't work. Desires the starting Place desire do you get aroused or erect do you orgasm like when you study sex you actually look at it that way. Did you actually sires what starts it starts here fixing the first problem? It's pretty go. I'm so now you're a vocal advocate for women's rights to desire, which I had no idea. It was even something that you could be an advocate for. Can you explain what that all looks like? We ran out of this and I for me, it's we have a right to desire. We have a the World Health Organization says that sexual health is a basic human, right? And it's really just taken on what I think is the last taboo and for me if Look at the conversation we have about women and sex we swirl around reproduction. Oh my God, go forward and backward and forward and backward and like my my theory is if we own it all the way through to pleasure. We'd actually finished all the nonsense and women have to own it all the way through to pleasure. We have to own that right to desire because when we go to the bedroom, sometimes we go to make a baby, but I hope all the time we go for pleasure. Yes, and why the hell Don't we talk about it? Why don't we have an honest conversation? We know by all the data how many women this affects where they lose interest and it's important like it's important to your sexual health. There were having the full conversation and it's so when I talk to women I have to tell you first time I had an event around it a woman raised her hand at the end. She said I guess I don't have a question. I have more of a comment she said until tonight. I think I never considered that I have a right to desire. Isn't that interesting and it was so I mean it's exactly what this is all about. It's about why aren't we talking about this? Why is it the last taboo? Like, it's not a sensational conversation. It's just a evidence-based conversation so that if your girlfriend looks at you and says like hey, it's not doing it anymore. Do you still do and they're brave enough to bring that up? We don't pat her on the shoulder and say it's just a phase pass. What you're doing is reinforcing this societal narrative that it doesn't really count like the answer is hey can be a real thing. Like it's possibly treatable. Maybe you need it. Maybe you don't but you should talk to somebody about it. Is this where you started the hashtag Woman On Top? Yes. And what is women what women on women women on top? Yes, I mean women on top for me is you know, when I sold this business here, I am that one of the hardest moments is if you can do nothing or you could do everything. Do you do and I had this opportunity to do something and for me it was about I knew having lived the incredible double standard of having a drug for men and trying to get a drug for women approved that my work going forward would be advocacy for women and I was going to reach my hand back. I was going to get other women there faster than I got there myself and women on top is like literally figuratively like, you know, I'm known for getting female Viagra. So I like women on top and that way but I also want On top and business how the hell does 2% 2% of all venture money go to women. Half the population has two percent of the good ideas ridiculous and I didn't get money when I showed up to raise money for female Viagra. They laughed me out of the room. How did you get the money? I told every single person I would meet in any elevator or anything else what I was trying to do and one conversation led to two friends who led to four friends who led to another circle in my investor group is entirely made up of high net worth individuals and family offices. I never got Venture money. Never got Venture money and I reached a hundred million dollars that way which is you know what the path wasn't available to me. So I made a New Path. This is my mentor the occur. Just want to let you guys know that goals. It's crazy that's insane, which is thin like become, you know this secret weapon because now I get so excited and I invest in female entrepreneurs and the system is overlooking them I go to this whole national network. I'm like, hey, I'm really excited about this. You should take a look and I typically can help them raise all their money. And that kind of brings me to these all these crazy comments that you've heard ya like what what do we need a bunch of horny women running around for when I write a comment wait. Yes. That was my starting point. What do we need a bunch of horny women running around for if that doesn't tell you everything in terms of our psychology on how much it actually matters and let me tell you this. I have been fortunate that thousands of women have told me their story back to the comments that We're hearing just you know about why would we want a bunch of horny women running around? What was that? Like the can you imagine a scene that about men by the way? Let me give a tale of two Sexes. Yep. So Viagra went to the FDA and guess what they decided. It met such an important unmet medical need that they fast-tracked its approval it got approved in six months. That's if the pill was blue if the pill is pink six years the double standard. And those comments say everything about really how we feel about you know, whether or not it matters. If a woman is sexually satisfied. Why don't they want to sexually satisfy? I think it's terrifying. I think powerful women are terrifying to the fabric of society at large. I think a powerful woman completely in control of her, you know, sexual satisfaction pleasure is terrifying. The reality is like the women who I've talked to over all of these years. Is they love their Partners their married? They've been married a long time. They may have been dealing with this for a long time. They really are happy with their Partners, but this is going wrong and it's causing everything else to unravel. This isn't about like some kind of it's so it makes me irate that everybody thinks like, oh it's a pill and it so you created a bunch of nymphomaniacs, right? That's one thing. I know not how it works not never going to happen. Oh, I love this that every man when I was going through this single a The time would say female Viagra. I'm female Viagra to which I would look at them after and I would say oh if I had a nickel for every time I heard that I would have had to sell my company for a billion dollars. Thanks. I want to talk now like you sold everything for a billy sold this company for a billion. But now you have the pinky Bator. I do the pink seal. Yes, and what are you doing? Explain it? I think ceiling for everybody so It's you know, put my money where my mouth is. I invest in companies buyer for women. We have a couple guys they're doing great stuff for women mostly female Founders and it's the things that are the breakthroughs like the first the things that everybody else is scared of and run away from and really things that will take on I think important social change so examples we have this technology. We've talked about it a bunch. We're literally dip my finger in the drink touch this disc 30 seconds. It tells me if there's a date rape drug in that drink. And that is so important so important. So in a college campuses, oh my gosh. I have two nieces one still on a college campus like can't get it there fast enough. Is this our we can we buy this yet? You can't it's called sip chip. Oh, that's so interesting. So literally it's just a nail polish. You can put it on like your thumb or pinky or whatever. So you put it on a keychain or on the back of your phone touch your finger just literally a droplet of water on it and it runs the test. Oh yes today. Okay. What else are you excited about? I'm excited about this flushable. See test. Oh, that's it in the whole world sort of go walks away, you know the classic like VCS or going in. I don't know. It's a niche market. You're like really a pregnancy test has a niche market and it's a huge market and so cool this founder. Her name is Bethany Bethany and an Our co-founders and you know, she said, why does 80% of a pregnancy test today have to be plastic and I love her Reverend like what the fuck why does it have to be that like not in my world? You know, she's very Eco conscious and then what ended up Up happening is I think the conversation went and why isn't it completely our discretion how discreet that it is? Why is it that every ad I see is only smiley face when that's not always the desired outcome and even to your point on fertility, like think about compassionately and infertility patient who doesn't want to walk into her bathroom open-heart reminded that she's not pregnant again. I mean, it's just so cool. These are the kind of ideas that I look. Or his innovating that product available right now to coming. Okay. It's kind of called Leah Leah L. IA L IA. Yes, that's going to be that's a great product is huge. I know that like the pregnancy test companies are like, oh shit. Oh shit because she's disruptive. I mean, it's so difficult into that market. Yeah, I've called you and I remember I was at a pool and it was like a hot day and where I was outside and I was like Cindy I'm about to do a deal. Yeah, and this company was a Give me you know, they only want to give me 20% and they want to give me a salary of whatever it was. But they're going to give me a certain percentage of the company and you started just asking me questions. You didn't tell me what to do. But you were this incredible Mentor that I needed to just hear from because I have two teams that work with me and reality. We all really truly work together. But yeah when you're in your own world sure it's one piece of advice you get but then when I get to step outside of my work. And talk to my mentors Sunday. It was like I got a whole new different perspective and and you're really truly about female mentorship absolute and is are you doing a lot of that through the pink seal you or is it something that's also side? No, I do it through the pink sea lion. I mean I the coolest job people come to me every day with you know, game-changing ideas or this desire to step up in a way and so like that's what I should be doing, you know haven't gotten to this outcome. This should not be a lonely Club. There should not be just a handful of women who sold a company for a billion dollars that's bullshit. And so my goal is I this my favorite thing of building companies is this everybody who came worked for me was an owner they had skin in the game and when we got to these huge outcomes, they had transformational events and that multiplier effect of ownership. I've watched how they've gone on what their kids do now how they make decisions differently. And so really it's like creating a pink Army, how am I gonna get other people? To these big exits and they're going to pay it forward and suddenly it's the next group and the next group and the next group and you know, I look at a Bethany with Leah and she will get to a big outcome and she will bring the next woman. They're right behind her and that's what I'd love to do. That's fantastic. There's a quote that I love in your Ted Talk. You say empathy is the DNA of a female rule breaker. Yeah. What do you mean? So look, I think there are all of these roles in society and there are the rules of Law & Order that we all have to follow and then there's all these Unwritten rules. There are many many more Unwritten rules for women and I actually think that they get really pissed about something that's either affected them or others and that's when they start Breaking All the Rules and they break all the rules that don't make sense and it's informed entirely by empathy. It's about that feeling of the impact that they're going to have on others and I really think honestly as I look forward to you know, what does the C Suite look like moving forward and businesses we Everything to the spreadsheet and you know what the most important characteristic in the leader is going to be empathy because they got to actually get through all the spreadsheets and just apply the human component to it. It's so true and women are successful season. I know her whole story is behind the business or company that she has created because she's been pissed off or she needed his still fill the void the issue. Yeah. That's kind of rule breaker. Wow, do they don't do it for the power for the whatever and I think if we look at some of the people, you know and classical kind of CEO of you imagine a picture of that. I don't know if you would under think that that was their motivation but I would challenge you just like you said look at any sort of female. Well, I'm figure out that story why she doesn't make sense because I mean I filled the void, you know with lingerie. I filled it like there's certain things. I've seen even just for myself and I've gone I'm like, oh no, I don't like that. Let's do this instead, but And it works sure fill a void for something that you truly want in life, but in filling a void and being powerful and bold and strong you need money. Yeah, you do. Yes you do and you talked a lot about tax money. I take it all on let's just call the damn taboos. I've told this story honestly, like after I sold this company for a billion dollars. He a decade like head down doing the work. I'd built and built and sold the male company. Then I built this company. I sold it and all Listen, I'm getting these invitations to go out and speak and a woman had seen me a couple times and she came up to me and she said I love that you never say how much you sold your business for and literally the next time I got on stage. I said hi. I'm Cindy Eckert and I sold my last company for a billion dollars because I knew what what am I I'm playing into this like taboo of women talking about money, you know money is a currency to do a lot of good and we About this women need a voice. I don't need a voice any power and money is that power money is power to make the decisions about the things I want to see in this world. And when I get to sit on this side of the table, then I get to invest in the things that everybody else said was just a niche market and didn't really matter. Power you got to talk about the billions baby sex billions. I mean, can we write a show around sex drugs and a billion dollars wait, you've said that before and I hope that you're working on that book. I'm not but I need to Cindy. Okay. Can we write? What do I say? Okay, so talk about being bold and underestimated and being Fearless a lot, but I want to know what was your boldest move you ever made in your life. And it can be even Beyond career. Yeah, I got to tell you it's hard to top taking on the government. Honestly, like I don't know you wake up one day and say hey, I'm going to dispute the government. It's funny. I got this decision that they weren't going to approve the drug. And the decision was that it didn't make sense based on all of the data. And so I get this decision and I literally had to go into the company and tell everybody that we thought I was blindsided like we done all the work we'd met. The goals what and and I can remember like telling the whole company and everybody looking at me like oh shit. Well, this is it. You know, we're going home. It's a Friday. We're going home and working on our resumes because I had no recourse. It's the government and they make the decision and literally I went home. I cried it out. I woke up the next day went back to my inbox and I started reading all the letters that women were writing me. Thank you for doing this. Thank you for letting me know. I'm not alone keep the faith and then I'm popped up and she said I know what's going on. I was in your trials. I have to tell you my story and so I went to meet with her and she came in and I've told this story a million times but it was such a huge moment for me because I could see her coming a mile away in charge type a walking in and she said you should beautiful boy. She ran her own company and she looked at me she had this condition. She said I've succeeded in every aspect of my life other than this. And for me I said that's it. Like that's the portrait of a woman. She's raise your hand a thousand times that something's different. Something's wrong. Something's changed and she been patted on the shoulder and dismissed and we were just marginalizing what was going on for her. So I said can I show you something and I literally pop open and start showing her the brain scans because I'm such a geek and when I'm doing this, she's like left the conversation and she's crying and in that minute I decided that's it. That's why I'm doing this. I went in on Monday morning. I I told the company I'm going to dispute the FDA and they were like really I called The Road Less Traveled, but that was bold. I was going to take them on and I was going to take them on because of that woman his that's why we were doing it and we had data and 13,000 of her and we were getting in our own way of looking at the scientific answer because of all of the narrative around female sexuality. Wow, that's awesome. And and you've had to fight against so many. Men, and I think that there's a lot of women out there that want to know in this advocacy for women. How do you fight against the man and the power and what's your advice to them? I think he got a own the competence. You got this, you know it like I would walk into these rooms and I anticipated I didn't look the part. I'm showing up in hot pink. I'm talking about women facts, right? Like if you say aye if Pharmaceuticals CEO sold their last business or billion dollars. I do not come to mind and I think at some point actually anticipating it was my weapon because I knew they were going to underestimate me and I was going to fucking kill it with competence because I knew my stuff and I knew it better than any one of them and I could go toe-to-toe on any wet. And it kind of became the gamification of it like oh watch this right this the it's really fun. And I think for all women I talk to female entrepreneurs about this a lot is leverage the element of surprise. If you actually have the expectation you don't you're not surprised if somebody doesn't take you seriously is under estimating you which will make you like either get frustrated or whatever. It may be or you'll start to doubt yourself and you can't let that happen. You can't let that happen. But every I know everything absolutely before you walk in and be and don't be surprised don't be surprised it's funny because you're about to surprise them. Like they have a little bit of fun with it. I love the guy. Guys who like absolutely laughed me out of the room and now call me up in there. Like hey Cindy, can I get in on that deal and like there has to be a little bit of pain before I let them in but of course they can get on the deal because that's change its not bad. They were bad guys. They just had blinders on and I gave him a billion reasons to believe literally. Yeah. I'm glad you brought up wearing pink give these these meetings because this is your uniform it is I've never not seen you ha Of a pink shirt dress except when you put me in a bra on Gene exactly wasn't a pink right wasn't how important is the Persona of who you are on the outside a part of your brand and how does that how does that play into the pink ceiling? So pink for me is irreverent pink is surprised because we have so many associations with pink right? It's week. It's this it's whatever it's fluffy and Really? What happened is when I was going through with what was called the little pink pill people would say. Oh that's so cute. And when they said that I thought oh no and I started showing up in this color at meetings at the FDA in the audience. Like hi. I guess we're going to talk about today. And so I really think it's a choice. I love pink by the way, like if you go back in my childhood, I can't find a picture what I'm not in pink. So we really authentic so it's been useful. I want love it love pink. Love embracing the femininity of it never thought I should change that to be more masculine to succeed in a man's world bullshit. And I think that the pink really was that shift in the discussion on the pink pill from underestimated to Unapologetic like we have so many gender stereotypes and I think what happens is we run away like to try to prove like, we're not that we're not weak. We're not this and actually the different decision is just go right for it because that's what you should be talking. About that's so interesting Own It own it honey. And then here you are. You're wearing pink. You got a pink pill. You've got a pink company and people dying any car. You don't know I know but you do have pink pigs. I do that's true. Just like a fun little, you know, tidbit about Miss Cindy. I have I have a picture when you walk into our office that we like graffitied and it was Cowboys scrape shit from your boots before entering. Which is like just funny to me for some reason once upon a time. It went out the back door of my little company when I first started my first startup and now it says cowgirl scrape shit from your boots. And I think it is about like that groundedness, right the pigs for me like so got a scrape shit for my boots when I come in from spending time with them and I think that's important. It's all about hard work. It is the hard work. It's about making sure that you don't give up on yourself ever ever and it's about asking for help. Yes, and knowing that your nose can always turn into guesses. Yes, for sure. You know, I think people would be surprised if they just asked how many people would say yes to helping them. I think we're scared to ask often. I think it's an imposition or whatever. It may be. They go in with a really specific accurate. Really. I got an ask the other day on Instagram like somebody deemed me and said I really want to come work for you. I said great send me your resume. She works for me now in New York City. What's your Instagram again? Grab Cindy pink CEO? You go guys you can DM San Diego right you that's right. Okay. So something I like to do at the end of every pretty big deal episode is a film the blankets are it's our lightning round of it. Okay? Okay. So you fill in the blank. I pretty much always drink iced tea, you are southern girl. I love it. I mean for himself that it could always get it. What's the biggest lesson you've learned in the past year to be open to love? Oh and Cindy's in Engaged what's the biggest deal you've ever made? I mean, I know it's hard to not say that. Yeah. Yeah, you made a billion dollar deal. I mean, although that's a pretty big deal girl. Okay, so obviously you're a pretty big deal, but I want to know what is a pretty big deal to you a pretty big deal to me. Is that women find a way to own it find a way to own a piece of the value that you're creating? World however, it is that's a really that's pretty big deal to me. Wow, and I feel like when you just said that to me, it wasn't just about financial, but it was also emotional it is wow. That's good Own It Cindy. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. Thank you guys so much for joining us on pretty big deal here with Cindy Eckert and you can go on Instagram and Twitter at pretty big deal pod. Make sure you guys all your comments and questions because we're going to be getting into them. Thanks for listening guys. Pretty big deal is produced by pretty big deal Productions and obb sound.
Ashley Graham sits down with Cindy Eckert, self-made CEO and advocate for women. Cindy is the powerhouse behind Addyi aka The Little Pink Pill — or to some, Female Viagra. In the past 10 years, Cindy has sold two pharmaceutical companies. Her most recent sale, Sprout Pharmaceuticals, went for a whopping $1 BILLION. And if that wasn’t impressive enough, Cindy and her shareholders reacquired the company two years after selling — FOR FREE! Cindy is also the creator of The Pink Ceiling aka The Pinkubator — a fund that supports businesses made by or for women. In this episode, we talk about entrepreneurship, the woman’s right to desire, the true reason behind Cindy’s signature hot pink wardrobe, and so much more. HOST: Ashley Graham GUEST: Cindy Eckert EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: Ashley Graham, Penni Thow, Scooter Braun EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: Michael D. Ratner, Scott Ratner, Miranda Sherman PRODUCED BY Pretty Big Deal Productions, OBB Picture & OBB Sound CO-EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: Kelsey McWilliams, Ava Coleman DIRECTED BY: Kaliya Warren WRITER: Ava Coleman LINE PRODUCER: Jess Vogel ASSOCIATE PRODUCER: Ilyssa Walker RESEARCHER: Shahnaz Mahmud SOCIAL MEDIA MANAGER: Natasha Janardan DIRECTOR OF PHOTOGRAPHY: Katherine Castro PRODUCTION DESIGNER: Lauren Nester EDITORS: Crystal Arnette, Lucy Tatiana Morales MAIN TITLE THEME BY: Johannes Raassina, Lefteris Ioannou POST PRODUCTION SUPERVISOR: Jess Vogel COLORIST: Marika Litz SOUND MIXER: James Sparber TITLE THEME PRODUCER: Johannes Raassina KEY PRODUCTION ASSISTANT: Julissa Ramirez PRODUCTION SOUND: Kit Jirles ADDITIONAL SOUND RECORDIST: Deanne Williams ART DIRECTOR: Laura Miller PRODUCTION ASSISTANT: Catrina Kokkoris DATA MANAGEMENT: Melissa Bueno-Werner PRODUCTION ASSISTANTS: Masha Zhak, Adam Duplechain. 