Welcome to see to scale. We're for investors with backgrounds as Founders who met at the engineering school at the University of Pennsylvania. Tim. Young the hall metha had Lee Harris fixing we study in the act in 2009 with more than 80 years of combined experience building our own companies. We now lead seed rounds and bold Founders who use code to create transformational companies starting a company from the ground up is really hard in this podcast will be having conversations with some of the most interesting Founders investors and influencers about the ins and outs of building an early stage company. We talk about it all finding growth and everything. It takes to build a lasting business. Hey everybody, its nahal founding General partner at eniac today. I have the honor of speaking with one of our great friends and mentors think one of the most successful folks in the industry that we know. This man's name is Rich Wang. I think the driving contributor to success is grit in in the startup environment and frankly, I think in life more broadly than the business world that we live in is a partner at Excel. I had a chance to meet Rich we work. On admob together we also worked on SwiftKey together is other Investments include Mo Pub are watch Rovio. He's currently on the board of atlassian Checker. Uipath osmo service Channel Sunrun better Cloud insta bug in tune. It's a real pleasure to have Rich today on sea to scale. So thank you for joining Rich. There's the whole it's a pleasure to speak with you always. So thanks for the kind words Richard. Thought I'd kick off. You know, you have a pretty interesting career path into venture. And so I'd love to just jump into your background go as far as you want to go. Did you ever grow up wanting to be an investor at Excel you know and take us through your journey to where you are today. I grew up the son of an immigrant in Santa Rosa, California sadly the area that was actually hit by some of the fires a couple years ago. Although most of my family does not live there anymore. So I grew up there and went to school. Back east in Boston studied engineering originally But realize that was a really really bad research engineer research scientists and went back to the business World went to business school. So I started out my working career at Procter & Gamble as a brand manager spent some time in McKinsey & management consulting but then jumped into the startup world in the mid-90s and saw the early first wave of the dot-coms the Telecom boom and then kind of word somewhat accidentally into Venture Capital. It's now 12 years since I've been in Excel and it's been an amazing fun experience, but I never really thought I was originally going to be doing this. I really thought I would stay on the operation side and it's been a real pleasure and you know getting a chance to work with so many companies and incredible entrepreneurs this past 12 years talk a little bit about you know, PMG and Mackenzie. Can you relate to those experiences and into what? You know become today and what you've taken away from those particular companies. Yeah very much. So but I think in some ways I probably use the things I learned at Procter & Gamble the most in working with early stage and growth stage tech companies of all the work experience and sense that I've had because as we all know a big part of getting a start-up to gain ignition and scale quickly Miss find that magical product Market fit and the thing mainly because the products are in some ways, you know consumer products at P&G are so sort of simplistic in some sense. It really teaches you how to think about fine-grained positioning and how to actually iterate quickly to find the concept of what the right brand positioning is. And so a lot of the techniques and learning that you have as a very young assistant brand manager or brand manager, which are the roles that I had at P&G are very very relevant to what it means to be ahead of products or a CEO of a startup company. And so I was lucky back. Then. I think to have some of that founding experience the foundational experience when I came out of school the tech industry wasn't anywhere close to what it is today in the early 90s there really weren't great companies like Google or Facebook or Uber to go work out to start your career and learn from other people and be developed and so places like the Procter & Gamble's in the mackenzies in that period of time where the places I think you could learn some good foundational skills. And some of those whore foundational skills, like brand positioning and figuring out how to find Value prop Market fit. Those are the types of things that I think are exactly what founding CEOs and head of products have to do in start-up companies today. So I feel really fortunate to have had that experience at the beginning of my career one thing you mentioned in your introduction, son of an immigrant, you know, we talked about that a lot actually Vic. My partner Vic is an immigrant he came over. Guyana when he was eight years old my parents came to this country in the 70s. I was born here in the US like like yourself, you know to talk about that mentality and maybe talk about how that even shapes what you look in Founders to invest in. I think as all of us know quite well a big part of I think succeeding in anything that's difficult and definitely doing a start-up is a difficult thing is very much about grit and willingness to never give up and to keep going you is in addition to being at the right time in the right place and picking the right initial idea having the right funding environment. Those are all contributors, but I think the driving contributor to success is grit in in the startup environment and frankly, I think in life more broadly than the business world that we live in and so I think whether you happen to come from immigrant background or not, it definitely helps I think to have very little to fall back on to give you some of that Drive-In that Oil and desire to succeed and so I think somewhere along the way my parents ingrained that it'll quite forcefully in some moments and I think that helps me to this day and I hope that's something we continue to pass along both in my family and the people that I work with an aside note. We're going to start another business. I'm bringing whap back, you know, I love the the Simplicity of the UI ux so it's a lot, you know, let's bring it back and now another topic for another conversation. But yeah your first investment or one year for its Investments was admob. That's actually how we got a chance to meet. Yes if I can brag about the hall for a quick second. I mean a lot of people don't know that there were not a lot of experts in the world of mobile marketing mobile advertising in 2005-2006. But one of them was the host of this show in the hall and despite the hall and I not knowing each other that well I heard he was one of the key experts. This industry when we were evaluating mobile advertising companies the hall was kind enough and gracious enough just to pick up the phone and you know in talk to me about his experience and his expertise and I will always be appreciative of that rich. I definitely did not interrupt you during that praise and thanks for that. I'm going to make sure to sound bite that and and put it on my phone so I can play that every morning. Thanks Steve. Where's your very kind a thesis around picks and shovels. Could you could you talk a little bit more about kind of maybe how you stumbled into it and why companies like admob and mo Pub, you know, we're part of that category. It's hard to remember that in 2006. The iPhone hadn't shipped yet. It was actually a year away from shipping and the App Store was about six months after that. So the you the it was truly early days of this whole mobile internet that has become pretty much everything that we think about in the world of the internet as of today. 2018 knew back then if I think people might recall the iPhone did not have apps initially that were third party the original Steve Jobs Vision was that everything was going to be mostly browser based on the iPhone. And so this was very early days in the creation of what is now a very large industry. I think we member apps like Tap Tap Revenge, which is for a while. The number one app store game. There were a whole ton of mobile video streaming companies that were trying To become the YouTube of mobile most of which do not make it to the present day. There was a large wave of experiments of new applications and it felt like to us that in addition to placing bets on some of those we eventually invested in super-soul and Rovio and companies of that type that a great bet was also bet on all of the ingredients and preconditions. And as you say picks and shovels that will succeed regardless of whether or not supercell Uber or Spa. Defy or Rovio become one of the leading applications. And so a lot of our bets around the mobile advertising industry. Admob, as one example Mo Pub later on is another we're I think thoughtful bats around regardless of which category gaming or ride-sharing or e-commerce become hot. They're all going to need to monetize and they're all going to need to have customer acquisition and so is a good way to essentially play the Trend in the market, even if you weren't able to pick exactly which company would become the hit and so that that thesis I think has played out reasonably. Well when we were in the mobile era that you and I worked on together and I think that is still relevant as we look ahead in other ways of Technology talk about the Facebook funding and do you think you know, there's we have a potential to see something again like that or is that time over? Well, first of all, it was it was an incredible fund. getting a chest would be the First Institutional Investor in Facebook and to have to get a chance to see that Journey from beginning to obviously the IPO and Beyond and that occurred pretty much all just in the last 12 to 13 years if folks may recall or may or may not be able to recall what it felt like in in 2005 2004 a lot of the industry especially in consumer internet was still getting over the The Plunge in 2001 of the first.com boom. So it sort of felt like e-commerce was done or it just doesn't seem like there's going to be super valuable businesses. There you offer all of the pets.com or Blue Nile and all the different.com e-commerce companies that have been in that era a lot of the infrastructure Investments like the picks and shovels companies like Exodus or digital Island lot of those companies had gone through some very tough times as well and it just didn't seem possible that Was going to be ever something that could replace, you know, Google or Yahoo, or the people that felt like they were the kings of the internet at that at that moment in time and obviously history has proven that as a new generation of people, you know grows up and goes to high school and college and graduates often times these platforms can shift as the generation shift. And so it is my belief that the current, you know, Kings of the internet that we All know those five hundred billion dollar plus companies are not immune from another generational disruption, but I do believe it's still possible to create disruptive opportunities. I would point out that one of the companies. Of course, we're very proud of in the portfolio today is slack and slack in some sense is an investment that was done all the way back to Tiny Speck, maybe nine. Yes years ago when we funded Stewart or my partner Andrew braccia funding Stewart in a gaming company at the time, but the slack product itself. Offers four or five years old only continue to do extremely well, so I think there are there still a lot of disruptive huge opportunities to be built and that's a current example. Do you think there's more opportunities in consumer or Enterprise? I think it depends a little bit on time frame. I think that the pragmatic short to medium term. It does feel like there's more open-field running at the moment around Enterprise at least from my vantage point when I look at you know companies like sighing Well Service now, which we were not investors in its being were 35 billion dollars. You look at atlassian being about 20 billion you look at where slack is going Dropbox OCTA, you know, there are companies that have become much larger than maybe we all imagined even when we invested and I think the ingredients in the preconditions that go into that are you now can truly sell to the world on a global basis, even if your company was originally based out of Sweden or out of Australia around a single Or because of Internet distribution. You can now sell business software anywhere in the world without necessarily having sales people or support staff in country and that well, it seems like an obvious point right now in 2018. It's still a relatively new phenomena. When I started an Excel you were really starting to sell in North America and then five years later you might open up the London office or the Israel Office of the South Africa office, but You weren't able to truly Go Global within the first three to four years of starting the company and I think for the most successful companies, you're starting to see them go Global within the first two or three years of their existence and I think that is why you're seeing much larger opportunities than ever before I tend to see that more in Enterprise today than today and most of the consumer opportunities, but I think in the long run they're going to be huge opportunities in both. It's exciting that Since what's coming up next on the Enterprise side, you're an investor and on the board of a company that many of said to be the fastest growing Enterprise company in the history of company called uipath that's in the RP a space or robotic process automation. The space is growing Leaps and Bounds. Can you talk a little bit about the space? Maybe to find the space from your perspective and why you think it's growing so quickly you'll absolutely you know, My first just say uipath is is a remarkable story. We're very fortunate to be part of it. My partner Luciana licks Andrew who is Romanian by Heritage and based out of excel London found the investment in Bucharest let it and then we have since invested in the series B. We're happy to have both capital G and Sequoia also recently lead around in the series see at 3 billion valuation that company has talked about all that has happened in 18 months. Months and so it's quite amazing to see the speed of progress and frankly from a very unlikely place in Bucharest Romania where this company was founded in still the majority of the staff based there. So I think it's another incredible example, like, you know Spotify from Stockholm or atlassian from Sydney, you know, we think uipath and this category of our PA from Bucharest. Romania is going to be a fascinating story to keep watching to your question of Hall on helping think The category what sort of fascinating and really caught me by surprise year ago. When we first started to really study this space is that the area of Enterprise automation or helping digitalized use all these buzzwords to help digitalize Enterprise companies has been an idea that's been around a very very long time and my conventional wisdom year ago was that the space was kind of sleepy and done that there wasn't going to be much disruptive or innovative. Things to be done around this category, but I think the why now question that I've spent some time wondering and pondering about as we've made this investment is that in until you know, just a few years ago. Most of what I call the real economy and the country and in the world more broadly didn't really have to think about software and they didn't really have to compete with companies that I think I guess are described in this digital natives, you know companies that are building Bolt with software and e-commerce technology at the heart of who they are you I think there's there were examples like Netflix, you know killing Blockbuster. There are examples of course of how Amazon and e-commerce industry is putting pressure on anybody who's selling any form of retail product, but for the most part it was limited to sort of small corners of the rest of the GDP that was really threatened by software and by digital natives, I think as you and I both know from our investing and from our colleagues investing across the country and across the valley that is changing radically almost every category everything from car insurance to life insurance to agriculture to farming to all these different categories. You would not think of this being software businesses are becoming pressured by startups or medium-sized companies that think of themselves as technology and software companies first. And so the rest of what I Call the real world is now suddenly having to react to that pressure. They're having to respond and serve their customers faster and better they expect much quicker response times. They have to of course run their operations with more efficiency and lower op EX in order to compete with these upstarts that are starting to rise up against them. And so for Corporate America, you aren't are seeing cios and a new title Chief digital officer, 's and seeing. For CEOs this topic of how you transform yourself to becoming a digital first company is now an actual topic of board conversation where I think it was not a short 5 7 10 years ago. And so in that environment there are now is a growing pool and demand for technologies that help automate the Enterprise and make these companies more efficient and able to compete with these new sets of insurgents or digital natives that are rising up and I think that's why we're seeing Traction and is pool in our PA specifically and in intelligent automation, we mentioned early on, you know, obviously your inspirational from a lot of your Investments and very thoughtful and your generosity to the industry. But also, you know being a dad and being a very active that I think I really enjoy seeing videos of your son doing phenomenal flips off ski jumps and with you cheering in the background, you know, talk a little bit. What about you know work-life balance? I think you were to ask my wife or my three kids. I'm not sure they would say that I necessarily have kind of anything balanced quite right necessarily so I would say I'm still learning and trying to figure out how to find that right balance point is as you say and I think that I think it really just comes down to figuring out, you know, the very generic sounding point of what's urgent and important and knowing how to prioritize those things both in your work life and your personal life. There's very few for me personally for my daughter's ballet things or soccer games or ski things is very few of certain moments. I will miss for anything so I don't care if I have to be on the other side of the world on a Thursday or Friday morning come Saturday morning back in California. I find a way to whatever it takes to kind of get back to be there for those moments at the same time on the work standpoint. I think you do have to try to be as deeply committed to the founders and CEOs. Is that you make a commitment to them and they make a commitment to you when you first start to work together and I think it's critically important to be available to them as well almost whenever they need it. So they don't know if I figured it out well, but I think I try to do my best to be there at what I think are the critical moments on on both sides and I'm still learning as I go. Yeah, it's definitely an iterative process. But thanks for being a great that passion for teaching some of us new dads as well as you can manage. World as we all said, we'll find out how that was in about 10 to 15 years just like just like once investments just like our investments very long feedback loops for for investing in companies and raising kids. Yes. Yes. Okay. We have a little lightning round that we like to do as we end interviews just say the first thing that comes to mind. So the best part about being a b c supporting going from there's the most challenging part of your day. Tell feedback. What are you most excited about these days industry Going Global number one reason later stage companies fail indigestion not starvation. Sometimes too much Capital to Quick your past and now Rich. We really wanted to thank you so much for your time today. We can all find you on Twitter @ R WR Ong old. Think thanks for having me on it's been a real pleasure become in addition to business partners and work together on a number of Investments to become friends over the years and see how well you're doing both in your professional life in your growing family. I appreciate the chance to come on the Quran this podcast and I had also just say thank you to all the entrepreneurs and had the chance to work with this last 12 years, and I hope many years to come.
Rich Wong is a General Partner at Accel, a global venture capital and growth equity firm. Rich’s investment focus is on software, internet services, and mobile technologies and he currently serves on the Boards of Atlassian, Checkr, Instabug, Osmo, Qwilt, ServiceChannel, Tune and UiPath. In this episode, Rich speaks with Eniac Founding General Partner Nihal Mehta on his thesis of picks and shovels and why he placed early bets across mobile with Admob and MoPub. Rich shares his experience supporting Accel’s investments in Facebook and Slack as well as why he believes the reigning technology companies today are not immune to another generational disruption. He also speaks to opportunities in enterprise why companies are expanding globally faster than ever before. As an investor in UiPath, Rich speaks to Enterprise Automation and why with the increasing pressure for companies to be digital-first it has become one of the fastest-growing industries. He also talks family; The lessons of grit instilled in him by his immigrant parents as well as his approach to his own family and finding balance between being there for his children and the CEOs during critical moments. If you liked this episode, please share and tag us on Twitter:  @RWong @Accel @nihalmehta @EniacVC @seedtoscale  Send comments or suggestions to seedtoscale@eniac.vc. 