so we can hello everyone and welcome to living this queer body a podcast about barriers to embodiment and how our Collective body stories can bring us back to ourselves. I'm a sharp and Jairus and I'm really glad you joined me today. I have a very sweet and dear person that I interviewed today, and I'm so very glad that I found this person. Josh Hirsch is my interviewee. And I'll tell you a little bit more about him and just a moment, but I think he really in his own project and his life and our communication and he really has introduced me to the need to make more space for people like me queer introverts. I really relate to that identity. I know it's a very nuanced identity and lots of people are on the spectrum of introversion, but that was a very exciting and interesting provocation that he provided through through the project that he works on. So we'll get to that in just a moment. The only housekeeping things I have today. I that I would really really love a few more reviews on Apple podcasts. I love reading them and so many of you send me very sweet messages. Out how this podcast is actually resonating for you specifically and I know some of that is very personal but I think some of those messages could really be just could really start a lot of people if they were made public in the world and one way of doing that is to publish a review. Hopefully a five star review and a little note endorsing the podcast that can really help us spread the word. I hope you've been enjoying the podcast so far and it's still going strong. I've been interviewing a lot of interesting people and I got some great episodes coming up. So thank you for your support. There is a very generous and lovely sponsor for this podcast today and it is radical roots and radical Roots is a BD company run by a an acupuncturist. In fact my former acupuncturist named Chloe Webber and her colleague and they combined the wisdom of Chinese herbology with very high quality extremely extremely well tested high quality full spectrum hemp and they have five internal formulas and one topical and they make really beautiful products and you can go to their website radical Roots herbs. It's radical roots with an S herbs.com to find out more about them and to also hear about the really touching story about how glowy ended up coming up with these formulas. She's just really rad has so much Integrity I use these products. I trust them and there's a lot of weird CBD stuff out there I think and it helps it helps when it's good quality. It helps when it's made by really smart kind of nerdy people and so you can actually get twenty percent off your order using the code queer CBD. So it's Q UE R CBD for 20% off and go to radical roots or herbs to.com to check it out and thank you Chloe and everyone at radical roots for supporting this podcast. It means a lot to me and I think it's cool because a lot of us queer folks clearly body. Need to support in in and for our bodies and this is one thing that some might resonate for some people that kind of support our bodies trying to navigate. This wild wild world that we live in so with that being said, I want to lastly in Courage you to sign up for my newsletter. Better if you haven't already you can just go to living in this queer body.com. There will be a prompt and you can sign up for my newsletter, which is the best way to find out about how you can work with me. You can work with me one-on-one. I do virtual monthly virtual workshops on various topics and some of them are collaborative. So we have guests coming in the next couple of months. So really check out my website and I appreciate you listening. On to our lovely and sweet guest Josh her shoes and entrepreneur writer seeker and Community architect over the years. He's focused on creating mindful heart-centered spaces for queer people such as the thoughtful gay man and queer it a global Community for queer introverts and this queer it space thing project has events in the New York City. The area but actually all over the country and World there are meetings and Gatherings all over which is just a really cool thing Josh believes in the power of belonging and connection as a means to bring healing and a sense of togetherness to queer communities and I really hope you enjoy this episode with Josh. Josh thank you so much for being here today. I really thank you. It's really fun that you know that we got to meet kind of in person at my the podcast launch because Cuz that was a such a kind of like I don't know interesting expression of kind of the heart of what I'm trying to do with this project. So it was very very meaningful that you were there and got to witness that I really appreciate humming. Yeah to see I felt like all the performances like embodied your podcast in the different way. And so it's cool to see that - I don't know different facets of it. Yeah. Yeah, that's And ended up I'm glad it ended up that way. Yeah cool. So I like to begin each each episode with you know asking you to reflect on an a part of your childhood or a time when you were younger and what are the earliest memories you have of messages you got around being in a body or what it meant to have a body. Mmm-hmm. Yeah. Hey, I guess one of the early ones is like go out and play my parents telling me of you know, going outside, you know, whether it's during the summer in the evenings. I remember, you know, just writing my bike a lot around the neighborhood playing with friends using our imagination. And kind of coming home once the Sun is going down. So yeah, I spent a lot of time outside and sort of like using my imagination. And so I think I kind of combine those two things, you know of being active and out and about and then but also being in my head and kind of using that to meld with whatever I was doing physically Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. So your parents in some ways are you know the environment you grew up in definitely encourage you to be pretty independent in a way and yeah, I can see as you know, what well the one thing I do know about you is you're a Virgo and that you and the other thing I know is that you are an introvert. So I and I am also a Virgo introvert. Yeah so I can imagine. I guess if I were to imagine myself, you know being told to go outside and play or encouraged to go outside and play was really when it happened with me. It was very helpful. But it also a lot of independent time was so great for me as an introvert. But it also really kept me like our does still keep me in my head. You know what I mean? Like really a lot of quiet time to kind of be in your head and I wonder how you sort of Gated that in your baby in your childhood, but also in your adult life that kind of balance or had those Tendencies. Yeah. I mean, I feel like going into junior high high school. It definitely turned more into anxiety of being in my head. It's yeah, it was just more. I think it was probably around like middle school high school when I started I don't know worrying a lot more about my health and things like that. I didn't really have ailments per se that were going on, but I found web indeedy and so I would go down that Rabbit Trail of hmm. Who is this? What's wrong with me is this what's happening? And it got a lot worse than High School. Cool, I think just I don't know. I was like editor of the newspaper my senior year and student body president. And I remember having panic sort of panic dreams at times when I would just I would be imagining either school work or things that I need to get done at work like as soon as I close my eyes and that's all I saw and I like couldn't sleep. And so yeah, there's a lot of anxiety I was Joking with my boyfriend the other day. I was like I am the most mellow I've ever been in my life right now and and he was like, oh really, but it was just a very inducing time and I felt my body was not sort of like a safe place to be in a lot of ways because I was afraid like what what could I have? That sort of sort of thinking Hmm. Do you? Can you speak if you feel like it a little bit about how that might be related to I mean, I don't I don't know exactly your trajectory around, you know, understanding your sexuality, but was there something about kind of trying to figure out like what you have or what's wrong or that feels in any way connected to trying to understand? Impulses and desires you are experiencing. I mean, it's definitely possible. I think I you know, otherwise why I don't know why it is like the middle school or high school. I had that much anxiety, you know, I just I guess there are personality types. That might be a little more anxious. But yeah, it was in I would say grades or middle school when I first his kind of like oh, Mike more attracted to guys I think but I didn't I didn't really have the words for I mean, I knew like I guess I knew the term gay and some way but I always think about a commercial that I saw probably in middle school or high school where it was like this is a weed to a like a grade Schooler and it was like a dandelion and then it was like this is weeds like an eighth grader and it was like we'd be like I was like, oh my gosh, like I felt that's I think what I thought about sexuality in a lot of ways is I just didn't know I remember one time in Middle School in the dramatization of his pretty different than what happened. But I remember standing like in the hallway and this girl who's in my class. She just out of nowhere. I don't really know what it was, but she was just like are you gay or she said like don't even know if it was a question. I think it might have been like a statement and I was just I just remember being like like I sort of I think laughed it off and like my friends are around me and it was just it was such a hmm. I didn't know. Like I knew the term but I didn't really know what that meant. Hm and then is that in part because of the environment you were growing up in yeah. I mean probably I grew up in Topeka Kansas, you know, which is middle of the country and you know, I grew up in a more conservative Christian environment so it you know with thinking about Out bodies. I mean, I don't think I thought probably consciously thought about this at the time but just how your body is in one way like a temple and is like, holy but then it's also dangerous and like can be a bad thing and you can do bad things with it, you know, so like that's sort of a like as a kid. You're kind of afraid of the your body in a way because of what it could do or what, you know, it could lead to I'm sure that probably caused some anxiety on some level especially as I was realizing that. What I wanted to do with my body or you know was probably different than maybe other guys in my class. And yeah, you know, I'm just listening to you and I'm thinking that is such a I mean it probably is a familiar experience for some people who are raised in a particular kind of religious environment, but that is for someone who's queer. That's such a Confounding set up in a way like that. There's something very yeah. You said temple like something sacred about I don't know in what in your kind of family belief system or a religious belief system what it was that like, did you have to do something to ensure the sacredness of your body or was it more like abstain from the desire like the other kind of bad impulses? Yeah, I mean. What it's I mean, it's a lot of stuff. I haven't, you know, sort of Unwound or and detangled untangled until I was an adult but you know, just the idea of your made in God's image, but you're also at your core sinful or like Fallen, you know, those sorts of terms. Yeah, so it's kind. By quo which one you know, which one is it? You know and I think become an adult, you know more and more. I'm like no, I think I like or I am good. You know, I think there is an inherent goodness there, but that, you know that can years later and so yeah, I think it was so that was sort of another mixed message of You are made in the image of God, but if you do things that are bad. You're jeopardizing yourself. Mhm. And Matt was I don't remember hearing messages much from the church. I actually went to but I grew up in Topeka where Fred Phelps and his whole family live. If you're familiar with like Westboro Baptist Church, so they actually painted it at my church a lot for different reasons. I think like the chief of police of to pee Eco went to our church for a while and you know, they will go after anyone so I remember those signs being outside of our church so that he know is that was just another thing of like, oh white like, why are these people out here in front of the church, you know Church being good here with my soul. And this is very confusing like yeah, that's a lot of different messages and You didn't have a way to talk about that with your family for instance or anything. No, I you know, I don't remember. I think I remember my parents saying I don't know if I were asked who those people were but there was an underlying belief that they were sort of crazy or you know, like they were not good people for doing what they were doing. Yeah, but there was he out there was never a conversation and I remember yeah. so I guess I'm just picturing like I feel like I'm kind of getting like a picture of like younger you and then ice have so many questions about sort of how you taken and somebody's taken the experiences and messages that you grew up with into what you created or are creating in your adult life and particularly sort of the way I came across you is is through Ooh, yes, it was through your Instagram or know it was through that interview right that you a podcast interview that you did. Yeah. What here Spirit? Yeah, of course Spirit podcast shout-out to Chris. Yeah, and you know I came I was really struck with this idea of like combining the notion of queerness and introversion and how you've navigated that it's something I deeply relate to not as an introvert and also someone who's been over many years been seeking like aspects of resonance in queer community and finding it but also finding myself not always knowing how to like feeling kind of on the outside of certain communities for mostly for you know, kind of this this reason essentially is that that I yeah, especially I think when I was younger and maybe in my 20s or something would have been really nice for her to have like one of your Gatherings that you organize will talk about those but you know to just explore what it means to kind of be a little more introspective and quiet and also like very out as queer and you know, I don't know so I'd love to hear about how you kind of came into understanding those things about yourself. Yeah. I don't think I really they really connected the two of being queer and introverted until I moved to New York to be honest, I think. It became such an overwhelming place to live in in terms of like the stimulation that I pretty early on. I went very inward into myself that you know, I've always been sort of like a reflective person and I enjoy thinking about the deeper, you know, whether they're like spiritual principles or you know other I don't know that unseen. I think a lot about those sorts of things. But when I moved here it became very physical in that. I was just like wow, this is a really intense place to live and I can't I can't see myself. I can't be as social like even more social on top of the stimulation that I'm facing just with the city itself. So commuting to and from work. And you know, you can go anywhere and and be very stimulated quickly. So I thought a lot about how I don't like I don't need more stimulation. I need connection with people and I think that's sort of where a lot of queer it came from is that I was just like I want to be with queer people but like I'm having a hard time doing that in this city in the different spaces and activities that I found like can you talk a little bit just maybe for people who are listening to understand or maybe find some resonance and it's like what what did you find particularly challenging to navigate socially like on top of this kind of yeah the daily stimulation of of this place. Yeah. I mean, I'm I'm very much a morning person. I'm not a nightlife person and I think that really kind of like sort of how was another layer on top of it. I was like, well, I am like exhausted by 9 p.m. Usually and I'm up early so You know go like the queer spaces in the morning. Like where is that happening? You know, that's another sort of just rare Rarity. It's like me I live pretty close to Central Park at the times like I would get up early on the Saturday and you know go to the park people be walking their dogs and be like me am Elderly with enjoying art. I like our quiet time together, so I just haven't Haven't done like a nightlife is not something that I'm drawn to. So I ended up doing a lot of things by myself, you know going to museums, you know walking around the city and I would you know, invite friends whenever I could but I was just very, you know very much by myself, which I like for the most part but I think it crept into like a very deep like loneliness, you know where I've never felt. As lonely and any city as I have in New York, so I you know when the idea what I watched Hannah gadsby's and not special and and she said that line about you know, where did the quiet gays go? I think that just was like a it just nailed sort of what I was feeling and the question that I was asking but I didn't know what that question was. Yes, and so, you know as you know a psychotherapist. You pray know the power of questions like that that just instantly got me thinking. Okay, where are where are the quiet gays? How do I find them and I ended up just being like I'm it's time for me to I feel like I have this vision of a space. I want to create. Hmm what I love I want to hear about that vision and draw you out a little bit on it, but I guess I'm curious to about What about being? I liked what you said about connection and New York. I'm curious. What like what Drew you to New York because in a way living in New York one aspect of it is that you kind of in some ways are always you always have the potential to connect with other people even in like I'm thinking about, you know, Subway commuter whatever sometimes it's incredibly stressful and very stimulating but also it can be kind of quiet moment. I'm thinking about like the dead of winter when everyone's like really pissed off and so they're in their coats and We're all just quiet together, but not alone. I don't know. There's something kind of paradoxical about living in New York and some Curious like what Drew you here and then you know, maybe why you've stayed instead of like leaving and that's less stimulating or something like that. For sure. I mean one of the main reasons I moved here. I was in a relationship at the time and we had decided to move here and you know, it was like Largely for sort of the career moves that he was making and I you know, I deeply believe believe in what he was doing and his talent and so like I had been in Chicago for six years. I was ready for something new but New York was never my like Dream City. I never thought I need to live in New York someday. So yeah, we moved here and I transfer it was able to transfer with my job as well, which is nice. But the yeah, I I sort of wasn't prepared for the I've been to New York, you know many times to visit but it's so different when you live here. I was excited about the the chance to explore and like see the city and that sort of thing but I yeah I so I did plan on movie. I I almost moved probably like three times. It's here to go to the Pacific Northwest that was sort of my plan. I was just like, oh the Pacific Northwest we go be with nature and trees and I decided I was like maybe a few weeks from this, you know moving and I changed my mind. I felt I didn't want to be running away from something. And I knew that that would be the case in a in a big way. So I ended up staying and I was just kind of like I'm gonna just try to Enjoy it or try to just like be here instead of like one like in and one like out and then and I think last so last summer. I went to an event that a woman named Ruby Warrington put on and she wrote a book called sober curious and I went to one of her events and Brooklyn it was called sobriety and psychedelics and it was this like panel that was talking about. nothing for micro dosing to sobriety to you know other drugs in psychedelics, but it was such a community of people there was like they did breath work and we did these like mantras and did you know sort of these like woo woo type of activities that I love but I've always felt like it was harder to find those sort of people in New York because it's more about it just feels like it's a more of an East Coast sort of like All rather than like mysterious mystical sort of orientation. And so when I went to that I was like, oh my gosh, like these are my people, you know, and they are here in New York. So that sort of gave me and yeah, that was last summer and that really gave me a boost of you know, there is something here for me and then a few months later queer. It came to me and I think that was by mistake. You know, I think the idea was waiting for me to some degree. Yeah, I'd love to hear about The project the and also about how how people have been responding to it. I mean, it's kind of from what I've observed just from social media, but there's really an interest kind of in a lot of different places. So yeah about it. I mean it is it has far surpassed when I ever imagined wait with that idea came to me. I remember thinking to myself like are they are other queerest Rupert's like how many are there and where apparently everywhere and people are just really sort of thirsty for that sort of of that sort of environment that sort of option and being seen I think it's interesting because you know introversion and extraversion. They're not really very visible things that you can see and people don't Then identify as that, you know, you were kind of just pushed into whatever scenarios that are around us and you just have to adapt and especially in New York. I feel like it's just you kind of have to just be able to adapt to whatever is around you so that makes it hard to find others, you know, when we're not like identifying as introverts and we're not sort of of I don't know fighting those in environments. It's sort of aspect of Personality that I think I don't know is queer people. We it's a part of us that I know we just haven't talked about before openly, right? Yeah. I think that's why I like part of why I really love like queer poets and reading queer poetry because I think it's it for Mary Oliver. It's like such a connection not that I assume all poets are introverts, but you know that but it's a kind of a lens or a language for expressing a kind of reflectiveness or dedication to quiet reflection. And I that really resonates for me, but I guess what's so interesting about we are saying just as I'm thinking about it is that because it's not visible. It does take a level of of not just self-awareness, but actually for me at least discovering it really it's pretty obvious that I'm an introvert but based on my like activities or what I prioritize in my life, but I think that you're right when you're in a certain environment like New York and or wherever where you have to kind of adapt to the situation or at work or you know, whatever the case maybe you don't it really is kind of like an embodied practice to sort of figure out like it's yeah how much I'm an introvert. Am I how much can my like my sense of self sort of take in terms of stimulus? You know, I mean, I hear a lot of that in kind of the languaging that you're using in this project. Yeah, like what is my threshold? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and it's okay. If yours isn't very high, you know, I think the coolest thing that I've seen at some of our events is just especially in the winter months by the end of the two hours like we had the whole windows fogged up of the coffee shop from talking so much. Hmm, and it was so cool to see that, you know, we as introverts we create We crave connection as much as anyone else but we're often battling the environment that were in and in so much of our energy is being devoted to that that we're not able to invest in much as in the connection part of like talking. And so like when there's an environment that the music has well, like the lights are soft, you know, there's were able to devote our energy to that connection that we really love. So it was just funny. It was like people think so often of introverts is being shy or like not wanting to talk to people and but I found the such the opposite to be true when you give them the environment that they will actually Thrive it. Hmm. Yeah, what have you found that you know as you've kind of maybe come to embrace this part of yourself more as like someone who lives in New York and you know has an introvert introverted Tendencies. What are the things that you do and prioritize in a daily basis, but kind of maybe wouldn't have done a while ago. If you hadn't been more like giving yourself permission to kind of be to have the threshold that you have you Yeah. Yeah, I think it's it's helped me so much with like setting boundaries of like how I want to spend my time and who I want to spend my time with you know, I just I think it's given me such a confidence of like now I don't want to do that and I don't feel guilty saying no because I know I have a limited amount of energy and you know like to give of myself and how How I want to spend that is with you know, the people that I love and resonate with and with you know, the situations and environments that I really believe in and like, you know want to show up to to support. I feel like it's really yeah, I think that's the biggest a guy I really stepped into is you know, I'm not I'm not saying yes to things that I just really don't want to go too. In whatever City you live in I feel like that is such a good life skill to have and it's not like I'm using oh my introversion as an excuse. I'm using it as a way to help me set a boundary that you know is hard for me to set for myself. Yay. Yes, I can see social, you know, like I don't want to like me and if I can be a Hermit on some days I would you know, I would definitely choose that but I love being around people and in finding that connection having that sort of deeper conversation about life. And yeah, the mysterious things of Life the spiritual things of life, you know getting into those conversations and I'll I'll be there the whole day. Yeah. Yeah, do you feel that the way you started to have these may be boundaries and using? the introversion and or the acceptance of introversion is sort of like a guide do you feel at all like A lot of people is a really broad statement but a lot of queer people are looking for like sex and community and attraction and have maybe been like, you know, this is the really conventional story. But you know, they've been deprived of it and their childhood and they're sort of like making up for it and their adulthood because like they live, you know, they've chosen to live near other queer people and I guess I'm just curious like how you seal about and I know you're saying you're not saying that you're actually saying I do like Community I do like other people but I'm just curious because so many of the opportunities to be social to you know, kind of meet people are very much around like you said nightlife or you know, that kind of stuff bars, whatever. You know, how have you? Yeah, how you navigated that? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think so many of those sort of like spaces and rituals are so unconscious and that's you know, it's just it's just what we do. This is what you know, this is how you socialize. This is how you meet other queer people and I think you know this applies to straight people as well, you know, whether it's sort of like bar culture or just how we socialize there. So little Consciousness and like intention behind it. It's just like oh, let's go grab drinks because But why are we doing that? Why are we like getting ice cream or like why are we here? You know, it's like this is just the way it is and I feel like his queer people. We're the ones that are should be over are always questioning things, you know the status quo and how we show up in the world and I feel like that is sort of embodies what queerness means of like, can we get all the cat ladies together and like we like Can you out or you know all the Quay people who have reading, you know, like let's get together and do something like can we imagine bigger or wider? of what it means to socialize and what it mean connect with each other and that to me is exciting because this queer people were we like let's keep creating the sort of spaces that we want and being the sort of people that we want to be and you know, so like that feels more like an Act of Creation where I feel like a lot of the traditional sort of socialization things are murdered like consuming in some ways of just like It's it's unconscious. I don't know if that makes sense. Well consuming and also about consumption in some ways to you know, like you're saying not that your anti consumption, but just that they're so there's so much about like this unconscious. Yeah. I like the way you said that it's like we're a wrote Behavior, you know, if you want to meet someone like you're single now go do this, you know, and your friends are encouraging you to like go to this bar or do this thing and what are you doing a first day there? You know that that stuff is it is kind of prescribed and in some ways are you know, there's a lot of pressure around that and yeah, it sounds like you've really You found a way within yourself to pretty relentlessly like accept these aspects of who you are and that is guiding you to kind of create these spaces. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's why that's how I've navigated is like well, I don't see something. So I'm going to create it and you know that feels to me sometimes easier than trying to find something. You know, it's like I don't know in a way. It's like I want to create this and then see I just didn't know if anyone would resonate with it. I think that was the big but the fact they are I mean someone message me yesterday and I won't I won't say his name, but I'll just read like a short message of what he said. He said. I've looked at your feet for less than 30 seconds, but I already feel so understood and less alone and to see that you had an event less than an hour away from me is so encouraging you were doing incredible work. I could cry just thinking about it today was a low day, but this has helped me. Thank you for what you're doing. Hmm. And this is you know a queer and the fellow queer person fellow queer introvert. Who and that's why I've heard from so many people's that like, I just haven't had a space to go and order to like step forward into this aspect of myself. Yeah seems like we're also when you're talking about introverts that are our people but predominately in terms that are kind of drawn to these events and and your feet and what you're doing. We're also talking. Talking kind of about empaths, you know and like yeah, you're sensitive and people who are in various ways. I wonder like what you're finding out about that too because I think that gets to like this queer embodiment piece to around like if you are a sensitive like a sensor Ali sensitive or emotionally sensitive or empathic person certain environments are really challenging or certain relationship expectations, or On intimacy are challenging and complicated. So yeah. Yeah, there's there's there's something that's just being with each other. That I think is just is healing for queer people and you know, we can be with each other in a lot of different ways. But I think for this group of queer folks who are more introverted just the act of sitting with each other and being able to talk. Is just without any expectation of you know, is this a date or am I trying to meet someone, you know, it's just like we're just coming together to not do a whole lot and that is exactly what we need. in in that in there have been I feel like queer folks who have come to our events that have not felt comfortable in like bars and things like that, you know for whatever reason, you know, whether you know, they're women or their person of color trans, you know, like and and that to me has been like amazing as well of like I like I want all of us who've kind of feel like we don't have a place to be able to come, you know, and we're all coming around this like one sort of aspect of ourselves that if we looked at each other we wouldn't have known but well showing up right great. Yeah middle of it and clearly it's I mean, I would love to hear how What your understanding is of like the reach that this is had. I mean you've been like in multiple Publications interviews, you know, I mean, yeah kind of in a lot of different places. Is that right? I mean, yeah, we've had events in seven different cities so far, you know, I think there's this sort of the three elements of queer quiet and sober is sort of like the three things that all of our events revolver. Around and you know, the sober aspect of it is just you know, we don't have alcohol at our events and and that's a newish thing for me as well. I mean, I used to be a wine buyer. So there is a time with you know, I was drinking quite often but through you know a series of events last summer as well. I was just kind of rethinking just thinking about my own Mental Health just the sadness that I feel a lot and you know, why am I putting something into my body that is making my life harder than it already is it was a queer Carson as an introverted New York City and I think that's been the other aspect of it that people have been really drawn to just especially like younger queer folks who have reached out to me and just saying like thank you like a I can't drink now and and B, I don't really see myself wanting to but there are so few places to go that's not present. And so I'm not you know, I'm not saying that we like Institute prohibition, but I think that we should be challenging and I've read a few assays of just like challenging intoxication culture challenging having a queer critique of this. substance that is pervasive in our communities, you know, are we questioning it it you know, it kind of goes back to what I was talking about earlier of Are We being conscious about the sort of lives were creating for ourselves and with each other and I don't have like a roadmap for that but I think it's just being present and and yeah questioning like is this serving me is this serving us? And are we talking about addiction are we talking about mental health we need to be and because otherwise we're just continuing to cover it up with you know substances and you know, it could be anything. I'm not just alcohol but That's yeah, I think that's what's sort of made it more compelling and people find it kind of strange some queer. People are just like there's no alcohol like what you know, what is that about? What are you doing? Yeah, right, which is a statement then of itself of our culture at large, you know, it's our society that we live in is just it's just an unconscious Act of let's drink Yeah, and I think you know, I'm just I'm thinking about the way that substances also helped can help sort of mitigate the discomfort or the yeah the discomfort of navigating intimacy as a queer person when it feels uncomfortable. I mean, I think that that's that's so much and like I see that a lot in my crack. My private practice is with people is just is really like people who are still navigating like trauma sexual trauma or dis or dysphoria and there's something about like needing a Reliance on substances to sort of help mitigate social interactions or interactions around like desire sex, you know, like sexual attraction and things like that that you know makes what you're proposing it does make it. Jake I think you know legitimately challenging it's not like a kind of a unicorn happy Fairyland place. It's you know, you're sort of proposing. I guess the way of understanding is or you're proposing like it's very confronting in some ways the idea and and kind of pleasurable to but like confronting in the sense of being committed to a level of sort of presence and introspection. With one another and that can be hard. Yeah, it is. I mean in especially like if you're thinking about like then I guess introverts. I mean, I know I used alcohol and social settings where I felt anxious or overwhelmed, you know, and that was that was my the way that I sort of got through it and last November and December was when I was like, I'm going to just not drink for these two months and see what When's if I cannot drink in November and December the like I think I can do it any time of the year. So I remember going to a few like holiday parties and I had you know my club soda and you know, whatever mixer I had with me and I remember the first, you know, 15 20 minutes and I was just like, oh just felt the tightness in my chest and but you know the anxiety but then it eventually went away. And I was connecting with people and I was having the conversations that really energized me and make me feel that sense of belonging and so it was just so interesting to see what was on the other side of what I feared before. Hmm. I didn't want to I didn't want to go through that tunnel of discomfort. Yeah, and then I found out I could I was like wow. Like I am more resilient than I think I am. Yeah, that's amazing. So I have we're coming towards the end of our time and I want to ask you one last question that I want to hear how people can kind of find out about you. So the last question I'd like to ask it just kind of going back to thinking about this younger version of you may be the one that's like riding your bike or in church, or you know, what? What do you think you I would like to or would have liked to have heard or had someone say to that younger version of you knowing what you know now I think it would be just like you can relax you can rest. Yeah, that's okay. Yeah, just like rest let yourself relax. I think that and I still hadn't started today. I mean today was horrible day and you know the room but with her I was just like I feel like I could just go off the deep end and then I had like Windows of it's okay like relax and like let the feelings that you're feeling just like move through me instead of Having an stuck. Yeah that just like that ability to rest. Yeah. Yeah takes a lot of trust I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I really want people to be able to kind of find out about what you're doing. So it's very interesting and new wish and so how can people find you. Yeah, they can go to queer introverts.com or find us on Instagram at queer introverts and we yeah, we update kind of what Going on the events that are coming up and we also have a Weekly Newsletter every that comes out every Friday morning. It's called queer and quiet and we have just sort of a reflection piece in there and then some interesting sort of Articles from the week that center around queerness sobriety and introversion cool. Really appreciate you taking the time and super nice and talk to yes. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Can all be free. Maybe maybe maybe maybe.
Josh Hersh is an entrepreneur, writer, seeker, and community architect. Over the years, he’s focused on creating mindful, heart-centered spaces for queer people, such as The Thoughtful Gay Man and queeret (pronounced queer-it), a global community for queer introverts. He believes in the power of belonging and connection as a means to bring healing and a sense of togetherness to queer communities. @queerintroverts @joshhersh   LITQB Podcast This is a podcast about the barriers to embodiment and how our collective body stories can bring us back to ourselves. This is a podcast for people who identify as queer or for people who might think of their relationship between their body and confining social narratives as queer. This can feel like an isolating experience. Our wounded bodies need spaces to talk about struggles with nourishment/disordered eating, body image issues, dysphoria, racism, heterosexism, transphobia, xenophobia, substance use/abuse, chronic pain/disability, body changes in parenthood, intergenerational trauma, the medical/wellness/therapy industrial complex and its lack of inclusion of queer bodies and much more. Hopefully this podcast can illustrate the connections, and resonant pain points, that we have with one another. The Host Asher Pandjiris  Psychotherapist/ Podcaster/ Group Facilitator    Virtual Workshops available every month:  https://www.livinginthisqueerbody.com/virtual-group-workshop   SUPPORT https://www.patreon.com/livinginthisqueerbody     Music: Ethan Philbrick and Helen Messineo-Pandjiris Audio Production: ganym3d3.com and https://talkbox.studio/   ---   Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/asher-pandjiris/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/asher-pandjiris/support 