Hey guys, if you haven't heard about anchor it's the easiest way to make a podcast. Let me explain it's free. There's creation tools that allow you to record and edit your podcast right from your phone or your computer. Anchor will distribute your podcast for you so that it can be heard on Spotify Apple podcast and many more you can make money from your podcast with no minimum listenership. It's everything you need to make a podcast in one place download the free anchor app or go to Anchor dot. F m-- to get started. I'm an anchor and I can't say enough about it. So get started down. Hey ladies, I just wanted to give a shout out to a good friend of mine rash message on a she was on superwomen. She's the author of Brave not perfect. She also has a podcast. It's called Brave. Not perfect. And I think if you're looking for another podcast to give you that you need every day. If you feel like you're trying to do things flawlessly, you're tired, or you beat yourself up constantly. This is a great one to listen to she talks about how bravery is a habit you form, and she wants you to help build that muscle so that when it really matters you're ready to take on the challenges that life. Throws at you. So listen And subscribe to her podcast wherever you listen to them. Hi everyone, it's Rebecca. You're listening to Super women today. My guest is Jill Kirkman. She is hilarious. You do not want to skip this episode most notably writer and star of odd. Mom out where she chronicled a quote unquote fictional lives of women on the Upper East Side, but she's an author. She's a badass mom of three and there's a lot of swearing in this episode. I'm just going to warn you she does not hold back. So if swearing offends you definitely don't listen to this episode. I hope you enjoy So I'm with Jill Carmen. We met through mutual friend Miss Crystal mirrors. Yeah, I love Crystal. I would love to just hear like I obviously knew you when I met you from odd mom out, but what was before before I was just a writer. I wrote books and II started a magazine said worked as an assistant interview and Harper's Bazaar, and I thought I wanted to be in magazines and just be a magazine writer and then I wound up writing. Being a screenplay for a movie that was at Sundance and then books like I wrote trashy novels for what kind of trashy novels. My first one was called the right address. It's about a co-op on Park Avenue and the different people that live in it and then eventually momzilla has which was I think my fourth or fifth momzilla has became odd mom out later NBC at optioned it and hired a writer to adapt it because they wouldn't let me do it because I was sort of a nobody with in terms of TV writing it. That point even though I had written for MTV. I had a bunch of shows there but it wasn't in The Writers Guild it's all non-union there. Right? So I begged to do it, but they wanted to bring in big guns and then I never got made and years later when I met Andy Cohen, I said can't you just like reach over and take it because NBC owns Bravo and he said that's not really how it works. But so I had sent him momzilla has and my book of essays. Sometimes I feel like a nut and we really developed odd. Mom out together like a lot of people That's why Bravo. Why were you on Comedy Central or HBO or something else? And I said like they never would have touched me. They I was a book writer and you get put in those pods kind of where you can it's harder to break out, right? And once I was meeting with Andy's henchmen at the time Larry spots who later became my showrunner, you know, I realize like this is a collaboration. It was totally from within our team there that it grew I didn't go around and have it fully formed. And Pitch it at all the networks. So stepping back before that. You were always a writer. How did you know that you loved writing? Did you write a lot in high school? Like how did you decide that that and then and then from there the second question would be how did you get a book published like, you know because I know so many writers that struggle with that. I think yeah high school was it helped in tenth grade? I had a really good teacher Berkeley Johnson who's who said, you know, you have a voice but I really think it was my dad had always said right like you talk and so whenever I wrote letters to My friends a lot of them still will send me screenshots of letters that I sent them in tenth grade 11th grade. I always wrote exactly like how I talk and I just shit it out. I don't edit it or I never did rough drafts. I just like Daya read it out and it felt like, you know, I was like breathing to me. It was like talking because I wasn't self-conscious about putting everything out there properly, you know, and and then later ironically I was not I never took English in college. I was not an English major. I got to college and my grade had I think 400 English majors and you know when you're an English major, I think you start to get self-conscious and you have these people criticizing your work and everyone passes around the stories and rip them to shreds and I don't think I'm wired or at least at the time. I don't think I could have handled that very well and that didn't sound appealing to me. So I became an art history major. There were 28 of us. I had only professors know Tas I'd so much attention and I think That's how I became really a writer was solidifying this kind of visual language where your repainting the work and I focused on northern Renaissance because I'm kind of like McCobb and that way and I love skulls and Albert Durand all of the Dutch some of the Dutch still lives to the Vani toss paintings and I always have had this, you know affinity for death because I feel like the happiest people talk about mortality a lot. I don't know. I just it's been my thing. But anyway, I love that kind of art and then in my summer internships in magazines, they knew they were never going to have me write or anything but I was packing trunks or taking Polaroids back back in the stone age's when we took Polaroids. I have like my Walker with tennis balls on it. I was doing like menial work, but my dad always said like you got this internship because of me and you didn't get it because you're so great. I made a phone call. So you're going to fucking be the first one there in the morning and the last one to leave. So I was I was there before anybody else I Out the garbage I would redo the Rolodex. I would clean their desks. So I feel like I got a lot out of it, but I really pumped so much energy into those internships and then because of those summer internships, I kind of had a job waiting for me an interview when I got out of jail and they was soon as I got there. I realized you know, this is going to be really hard. It was a huge adjustment because I work crazy hours for 18,000 a year and I wasn't really treated well, but I was allowed to write so right away. They had me doing articles. So that's how I mean, I wrote like 200 articles there. Wow. Yeah. So when your dad said to you I made this phone call you got this internship. You better work your ass off. Do you feel like him saying that and putting himself on the line? And then you working hard helped shaped your work ethic on the go forward. Yes, totally because even though the tasks were really menial and fetching coffee and clean literally cleaning people's desks. Stuff. I felt like I was told all the time I had to pay my dues and that it doesn't matter what you've accomplished in college or whatever. You are at Square fucking one and you have to be ready to eat shit sandwiches, you know, it's funny is now that behavior is frowned upon. Let's say that's Mead and you can't do that to the millenial Workforce and I say that as a millennial do you think that that sets up people to then not work as hard? Yeah, because I think that now I mean the good part of That is of course office culture and there's no verbal abuse. I sustained like more verbal abuse than you can even imagine we were all tortured people were in tears all the time. So I'm glad that that's not there. Yeah, but I definitely feel like some people in your generation feel above certain tasks. Yeah, and I don't think that that's a good thing. I know there's a big gap between the Elder Millennials and the younger ones right? Exactly. So then when you decided to write your first book you had the contacts or you To go through the struggle of finding them. And did you get rejected or I was like actually a funny story though. I took like this weird side door to do the books because I had done the screenplay about an intern in a fashion magazine called intern that was it was with Dominique Swaney was 99 and I went to Sundance and mm so long time ago not the the successful intern with Robert De Niro and Anne Hathaway a different one. So it only came out in New York and LA but I I wrote the script with my writing partner carried oil and it was really exciting. It got made and I was 24 and I thought like this is great. I'm going to be screenwriter wrong. So I sent we got it but it got us our agent, you know as a stepping stone and the agent said, okay. Now you have to write a spec script. So we have this idea of a co-op and the different apartments in it as one building called the right address and we sent it to my agent the screenplay and she said well, I have good news and bad news the good. News is I left my fucking ass off and I said what's the bad news? And she said well, this is too esoteric a milieu, you know, you have like the coasts that will get this, you know between Zabar's and the Hollywood Bowl. No one gives a shit about like rich people in New York. And I said that's such bullshit like look at Sex in the City. Look at Nanny Diaries and she said well those that's apples and oranges because they were books first. So we'd said let's write it as a book fuck it. So we novelized are screenplay and that was my first book. Wow. Wow, so we totally took like this weird back to her. That's awesome. Yeah, it was really weird. And for those years I had three kids in four years and I was underwater like underwater like I couldn't breathe and books were my only way to be alone because I felt like I was constantly pod by the kids and all this shit. So I loved writing books because it was solitary and now I don't want to write books because I like people now because my kids are all grown up. So I like being in a writers room and TV world. It's so much. Better and what gave you the I don't want to say like you'd never acted before so hot you had yeah, I was in college never not in a play. Like I was in town. It was shown for you to be no not Mom out. No, not at all. And in fact, they'll laugh when I took a bow on the stage my senior year before graduation. I was like, well, this is so sad. I'm never going to act again because I didn't want to go and be an actress right I wanted to act but I didn't want to be an actress and I thought you'd have to like blow Harvey Weinstein or whatever like I I knew this shit that was going on and I'm a workaholic and I would I wasn't willing to have that sporadically working lifestyle. I really wanted like a job. Yes, so I just thought okay, that's not a life for me and I'm not gonna like gargle casting director balls not comfortable to gargle them know well now they have Gucci knee pads in the fashion show yesterday. I watched it live on Instagram. So I feel like I took this different back door in but on the flip side I had there's more of me now. Guys, I'm 44 and I'm now the balsamic reduction of myself. Whereas it 22 I never would have I think been a working actress because there's just none of me to now. I mean, I'm I know who I am. I have my family. I don't give a shit. So it's like taking risks isn't scary to me totally but as a young person, I don't understand how these girls do it and get you know have trolls and shit like I have crocodile skin so I don't give it him. But when I you know all go through the Twitter when odd mom out first came out and they're like like she looks like Marilyn Manson Shadow on her face. Like there's gross like her like season 2 from season one to season two. I got Invisalign because all these people were like, she's snaggle teeth or teeth are like nightmare our jaws and then I was like, do I shitty snaggle teeth because I never had braces. I have snaggle teeth. Well, my publicist was like you should just do Invisalign. It'll help straighten them and it actually will like make you look younger because your teeth can Aid you and shit? I just saw an article in Vogue. So I got Invisalign and Enough it straightened my teeth a year later season 2 comes out. And the first thing I see on Twitter someone's like oh sure her teeth East have so much more character, but I was like, you know what? That's right. Like you can't please anybody like you should have to do you and I actually am fine with my straightened to do you still wear it to keep him straight? I have a quote unquote Appliance at night you're supposed to wear but I know I do it like once every two weeks when I think of it, okay, because I was getting it it does. Yeah. I don't know if you back anything like a breath. Freak, it's the self. You never notice. Really. Yeah. Oh, I think it's terrible, but I'm also lazy. So yeah, I'm lazy. Anyway, the shit works like it does work, but we're not sponsored by Invisalign yesterday. That's true. So how what was it like having three kids in four years and was that planned know all my kids were accidents and I had a miscarriage in there too and the middle. I just kept like shitting them out. My husband really wanted for and I wanted to and we split the diff and had three, okay, but That when the miscarriage happened I was like, okay, I guess I do want a third because I felt like sad for one hour and then I went and had like three glasses of wine and I wasn't sad anymore and I'm a big believer and I tell everybody who's had miscarriages like its nature doing its thing. You don't want to know, you know want what that that exactly. So I was I was sad for one hour literally and then I was like, okay, let's go and drink. I'm not even that big of a drinker but I feel like motherhood started me drinking kind of yes my bottles of wine. Started after my son. Yeah, I never did that in even drink at my wedding. I think I had like, uh sip of champagne. Yeah, and now it's even down again. It's weird now, I don't crave alcohols much because they're just not coming Tantrums are shitting themselves or anything like that. How old are they? Almost 16 13 and 11. Wow. Yeah. So you're in the clear they don't want to hang out with you necessarily. I actually I am very lucky. I have really good. My son is like I have two girls and people are like, well there was a lecture at my daughter's school. They invited us. To saying how to deal with your teenager, you know and all the stuff and I was like, I'm good. Like I'm really really lucky. She's we have a really good relationship. My son is the one that gives me grief and most people are like boys love their mommies and the girls are the difficult ones and I have the opposite of like he well, I think he loves me but we butt heads right? Let's put it that way. Okay, like he's my door Slammer not the teenage girls. So funny how that works weird. Yeah. So what it what was in all this, you know thread Ed from magazines to books to then this odd mom out and now a free agent a free agent the thread is basically I think continuing to say what you want right what you want and just like follow your gut. I had a couple setbacks where I didn't listen and one example is last year into your gut. Yes. Okay, but only because I don't have it's funny at you you when you're told over and over again. You're new in this industry and your you have to listen to the people. I finally realized like nobody knows anything. You know, I have to trust my gut and not this, you know, I never had an agent went on Mama out started and I actually love my agent and wasn't it's nothing to do with her. But I feel like you there's this sense of the industry and the way things are done and that I was supposed to follow along and pitched a certain way or do things the way that it's done and I never have had that Playbook. Yeah and I think one of the reasons odd mom out felt fresh to our viewers was that I didn't have that experience in the writers room where there with this sort of the rules of act one and you have to build to this and then seeing break and there's all these rules in writers rooms. And I was like, yeah, I just want to do this and I didn't have the cool thing about Bravo is it was because it's mostly reality. It was the Wild Wild West they didn't have a team of scripted, you know Department Executives who are giving me notes. So no one was clipping my wings. I got to really What I wanted to say, right? Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that normally so that was a huge wake-up call to me. So when odd mom out finished, I sold a show to NBC. It was The Munsters where I was doing a reboot and Seth Meyers and Mike Shoemaker were producing and I love that my worship them are so lucky to work with them. But I remember saying I don't think NBC is the right fit for this. I think it should I love to curse. I want to be dark. I have dark humor, and it's a dark subject and I knew Eddie. Master in my version would be a teenager and would come out as gay at the end of the pilot and I wanted to talk about like some of the depression he was facing and all this shit and NBC was you know the home for it because Seth is there and everybody was saying, you know, they want to take it off the table. Like you're just go with them. And even though my I knew that it would have been better streaming I did it and it was and it didn't get on the air so it felt like And you never get it back. Once that happens now it's gone because they own so Universal owns NBC and Universal on some monster and you never get it back. No, I mean I have the script. What I do sometimes is all I grave Rob my own scripts and put jokes and other things so I feel like there's a lot of good shit in there and that will make its way out. Okay somewhere right somehow I don't know how yet, but I kind of like Bank jokes and so dude, you draw a lot of your inspiration from the life. You have lived being that you're from, New York. You've grown up on the I'm assuming the Upper East Side. Yes. Now, I'm in Midtown. I'm in Dorito down under Roosevelt Island Tram overpassing. What's the thing now, but II feel like I yes is the answer on my Mount definitely I mind from my life and apply to kindergarten all the bullshit that New York moms deal with with like type a competitive moms, but I feel like I my kids have grown so now I'm interested in the teen world. Like I think I want to talk about that. And there's also kind of a hole in the Teen Movie Marketplace. I miss John Hughes terribly and I get in bed with my girls and watch all the pretty and pink and Ferris Bueller and Sixteen Candles and the beauty of those movies to me was that they didn't know what to say. They didn't have like a perfect singer. You know, Molly Ringwald was biting her lower lip and feeling invisible and then there was a Spate of teen movies where you know, they had the perfect comeback and this quip and they were had just like the best art related insults and I never had those in my back pocket when I was 15. So it just felt overwritten and I want to go back to that kind of purity of those teen movies and they were feeling invisible and then I'm actually readdressing some of John hughes's themes through the lens of the kind of pernicious side of social media, but his pernicious mean like dangerous dark. Okay? Yeah. I love Instagram. I think it's the best. I'm on it. I spent a lot of time on it. I love looking I love Keyhole. Into people's lives, but I wasn't a teenager with it. I'm a 44 year old when I see my girls going through and they'll zoom in on people's bikini body on the beach or wherever I am constantly reminding them. They took 30 selfies to get that one. There are filters. There are facetune body tune. Like this is artifice. This isn't their life. It's a construct right? And do you think the girls know that they do? Okay they do because I'm gonna pound it in their fucking heads good. Yeah because I have a a year old and so I'm like as I as she grows I'm like, how is this going to work? It's kind of frightening. You just have to talk about it all the time, right? This is fake constantly. I don't get my makeup done every day for no reason right exactly. So what do you think? You're next? What are you working on now? Well, I'm working on an adaptation of a book that a writer who I loved it and I'm going to pitch it and I'll lay that's kind of a long shot and then I don't know. I really think I want to try. A movie it's been 20 years 20 21 years since I've done that I don't even know if I know how to do it, but I'm just going to fucking try and the worst thing that can happen. Is it like rats in a drawer somewhere? But who cares? So you strike me as someone that is fearless. I'm not Fearless. I have like really irrational fears. Like what? Okay clowns. Okay raths. Okay Suburbia, like I told you I've Suburban panic disorder. I don't know how to drive. I've read States right now. I'm really like freaked out by the polarization in our country and I'm obviously a Democrat and liberal. So I just I feel like I hear banjo music if I cross the George Washington Bridge, like I just don't want to be not in New York right now because I don't feel that safe. Okay, although I met some really nice people in Texas a couple weeks ago. I was there for a speaking engagement and there are pockets of blue everywhere. I will say and like-minded people but I feel like I grew up in a house where it was, you know difference of opinion was a good thing, but It's become so extreme that to me. It's not difference of opinion. It's just right and wrong. Yeah, so I can't really spend time with Republicans right now. I hear you. So I have a fear of dumb people. Okay, and I have a fear of haters like I don't hate anybody but I hate haters like if you're racist or homophobic or whatever. I just I those people I can't abide and I can't even have a conversation with them right as far as things that have challenged you or Ben you mentioned some setbacks. But have there been deep challenges or things that made you not scared as in like a clown or a rat but just like oh shit, how do I get through this huge challenge? Yes. Okay, so I have to okay. The first is I had a double mastectomy last summer. I had two lumps in my left boob that they found actually around I guess like let fall of 2017 and they said what you have these two lumps you can do a lumpectomy. We are doing like breast MRIs every three months where you live. That tube. It sucks like your boobs go in these empty cones and for like an hour and you hear this horrible noise they give you a sedative but I don't really like drugs because then I can't poo so I did that three times and while I was waiting between they were they were each three months apart while I was waiting. I did the full workup at Sloan-Kettering they do genetic testing and it turned out I have a breast cancer Gene. It's like a lot of Jews have it and I wound up deciding eyes. Just didn't want to stick around and wait for the shit to turn into cancer when it's all over my family both sides. Wow, so I was like, fuck it. I'm doing a mastectomy. So I did the double mastectomy last June June of 2018 and the reconstructive surgery in August and that was fucking hard for me because I had the drains I had all the shit and I'm not in the hangout achill stuff. Well, yeah, and I didn't take any pain. And by the way, I had an epidural when I had my kids. I'm not one of those hippies. Like I'm going to shut it out in a bathtub and I rule. I got a birth announcement. Once that said natural childbirth engraved in the lower left-hand corner, and I was like, fuck you who cares? I'm not anti drugs. I'm just saying for me. I can't take any of that opioids. Like I can't believe America is addicted because you cannot Poe so I just took Tylenol. I was in terrible pain I drank wine but not enough to make the pain totally go away. So that was tough and then right on the heels of that. At my son came home from school crying and I had my drain still in and it was gross like you have these tubes coming out of your pits with like blood and pus and it's fucking gross and it's gross. It's scary for a kid to see that and I try to cover it up with bathrobes. Yeah, but they are there. Yeah, like you see it and he had tears in his eyes and sat on my bed. And I was I said, I'm going to be okay sweetie. It's all going to be okay and he's like no, it's not about you. Like he I realized like I just thought that he was crying because of my state and he was Like no this kid in school came up to me and said God sent Hitler to kill the Jews because you nailed Jesus to the Cross. Wow. So I like flipped out like I'm a generally really happy person. I'm one of the happiest people I know I went into like a really dark place. I started sobbing and I didn't stop crying for like four hours. I called my parents. I'm really close to my parents. It's like not normal. I'm 44. I talk to him every day. I called my parents balling and my dad of course his first Inked was like look you've been through a lot you would just had surgery. Yes going to say you're a mom down your emotional and I was like this has nothing to do with my boobs like forget the mastectomy. Like I didn't care about the mastectomy is at that point. My I was so traumatized that my child had to hear that because I grew up in New York in the 70s and I never heard anything like that right never so I was shocked because it's fucking New York, you know, and I've had a couple instances where I've heard people say Things about Jews and whatever and it was disturbing but this traumatize me I felt like what's wrong with the world it got like heavier. It wasn't just about this one kid or family. It just turned in my head into this like Cloud Thundercloud of like this is a horrible world, you know, and it was really hard to get through that I had about three weeks where I cried every day. Wow. It was really depressing and then so what did you do? So my daughter came home and said, you know, there's girl I Heard about this girl the cool thing also about Instagram is it makes New York a little smaller because you see these kids follow kids from other schools and they meet once and then they see this whole prism into their world. And anyway becomes your Social Circle becomes exponential and your Venn diagrams, like constantly growing with with everybody meet. So she and she sees the overlap of the Venn diagram with who follows, you know, so she knew through a friend through another friend that this girl who's a lesbian. She was called a dike at her school. And she just like as a total Hail Mary called over to my daughter's school and tried to switch to an all-girls school. She thought she would feel safer because it was a boy who said this and they made a spot for her. And so it's kind of like an amnesty admissions thing like you don't really hear about it, but you can apply offseason and in a special circumstance, so she said I think you should do that for Fletch. So as like a total like fuck it move. I called over to the school. Jules and I called three schools and said like this is what happened to the school said we don't have a spot, you know, please apply in September were horrified. We're so sorry for your son and that you're going, you know had to go through this and then the last school was like calm down. It's come when can you be here? So I went out to the Village my husband and they this is the same similar situation. They basically created a spot for him. So once I knew we were out of the school because the issue was also that the school didn't do anything right? So they Mr. Field trip and got like a slap on the wrist and I felt like that wasn't sufficient and the whole school should have been addressed at that. They have zero tolerance for this kind of rhetoric and that it's unacceptable nothing like that and they just don't want they sweep dirt under the rug they want everything to look perfect. So I decided to write an essay about the whole experience for tablet, which I thought was kind of Subrosa because I had never really heard of it. It's like a Jewish Magazine online. So I wrote it for that and then I was I'm shocked that I got picked up by a lot of other media and I got felt a little like nervous and exposed because I didn't I meant for it to just be something in my community that I was talking about and then I kind of went viral so I felt a little bit nervous for a couple days and then ultimately I got tons of letters from people from my son School alums parents saying we had a similar thing and they did nothing so in the end, I think it made change over there. They're brought in somebody to deal with stuff. Like this WOW, but not my problem because we're not there and we're so happy. I feel like I have a new lease on life. Wow. Yeah, but it was it was 2018 was not a great year for me. No. Yeah, but I did the reconstructive surgery. Did you keep the nips? I kept the nips they cut under my guy Alexander swiss-style kind of pioneered this surgery where they cut under your boobs. So the scars are under. Oh, so I know you can't even see them. So I have my nips and my boobs look like kind of porn star - I mean they Look really fake. But who cares like they look like I was 18, you know, wow and you still have to get checked though. No, there's not. There's no mammograms. There's nothing in there. They scooped out everything. So there's no I think you got an MRI every five years. Okay, but there's nothing to check. It's all like silicone my cousin did that because she carries the gene. So she just was like, nope. Everything's gone. Yeah, it's really I have to say, I think it depends on your personality a lot of women. I know women who had full-on tumors breast cancer, too. And didn't want to get mastectomy as they just kept doing lumpectomies. They're fine with it. They didn't want to mess with their boobs. Like their sexual identity was wrapped up in their boobs. I have never liked might the way I dress is not cleave e I'd never call my boobs the twins I never liked think of my boobs is like a part of my identity. So it was no biggie for me. Right but there are other women where they were like, I can't do it. I can't do it. I'm like, but it's not, you know, the my grandmother's double mastectomy. She had to Scars across her whole boobs and you know, even for years after what you were basically Frank and hits and now it's you really can't tell I mean you can tell they're fake but you can't tell that you had this done by now. It just looks like any Playboy person, you know, I have zero sexual connection to my breasts their utters to feed my children. Yeah. I didn't even nurse. I was a bottle feeder. Yeah because my nips were like clits. That's the one thing is I had like two clits taped on my boobs, basically. So when I was nursing my first one, I was in agony. It was bleeding like I hated nursing. So I stopped so I bottle-fed the all three and the thing is with my husband like if he wanted to touch my boobs, they're so sensitive. Sometimes I would like SWAT him away and just be like fuck off. Don't touch me, right? Whereas now I don't feel anything. So I'm like go to town. I don't give a shit. So he's actually happy that's great. Its best of both worlds best of both worlds. Sometimes I miss it because I'm not like aroused as much like I don't get a rat like I have to have like two glasses of wine. Before I want to like bone or anything, but I feel like I was kind of like that. Anyway, I was getting like I don't know like three kids kind of desexualize me. My husband just said the other day. He said honey. It's like we're friends with kids. It's like made myself always bone though, because I feel like I know it's the only thing about me that's really old-fashioned where I feel like if you don't fuck your husband someone else will true. I don't think Harry would but I just feel like I got I don't know even if I'm not in the mood, I like flop on my back. It's hard. It's really hard. But I feel like you know, I you're always glad you did after always I'm always like why don't we do this more? Yeah, it's always a good time. And then it's just yeah. Anyways, is it so bad? Sometimes I also think oh, yeah. I'm so glad we just did it because I didn't want to do it tomorrow. I can't like I feel like off the hook for two days. You know what I mean so bad. It's that I'm really glad I have my husband. He's a good person. My husband does not listen to this podcast. So that's good. This is there anything else you want to add? No, just that you are an inspiration and you juggle it all and thank you for doing everything you do because it like makes me feel like I can get off my ass and doing your projects. There's one question. I always ask. Yeah, what would we be surprised to know about you? I'm sure it's very rare because you're an open book, but would be okay one surprised because I only wear black and I love Halloween is my favorite holiday, and I'm kind of a goth person. I actually love Valentine's Day. I'm in love with love. I used to have a Valentine's Day party every year. And I da cappella singers come make that might also be a surprise. I love Broadway musicals, but I'm in love with love. So I do love hearts. I have heart tattoos here. You know, I have my swords and I have my Gothic New York while my back in the New York Times font, but I also have hearts being that you have done so many things and so many different fields. Do you have any advice you'd like to leave our listeners with about anything? Yes could be about sex. Well, it's more of like your raise. And all the time saying better safe than sorry and I think better sorry than safe. I like that. Yeah, that's I'd be like, I'd rather regret but try shit, but don't be safe because that's actually not safe right then. You'll be claustro in your own skull. Yeah. Yeah, you'd be a Stepford Wife. Yeah. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you. That was your card when everyone I hope you enjoyed the episode and you can follow her at Jill Carmen. I just want to read you guys a couple of new reviews that came in again. I Read almost every single review that has sent a read over every email and if I don't respond to you right away, I'm sorry, but I'm reading this one's from blush not pink. The only reason I'm still saying. Wow this podcast to salvage the very select remnants of my sanity Rebecca has created this incredibly Safe Community for young female entrepreneurs. I am a newly minted Edie executive director running a brand new nonprofit very much of my own absolutely. Everything runs through my hands hearing the struggles real genuine problems fears. Pains and sometimes just pure crazy that some of my own role models and other powerful women have faced gives me the space and comfort to breathe a little and now I'm not alone. Thank you for creating this incredible and empowering space for women, especially those who need to know the journey is messy imperfect scary and still beautiful. Listen blush not paying kit is always scary and I think it's becoming more and more apparent to me that everyone I talked to has War Stories almost every day. And so I think it's about getting used to the horror stories and Getting them and getting used to all the holes in the boat and just keeping that bucket handy.
 Jill Kargman is not your neighborhood soccer mom and she doesn’t play one on TV, either. Her dark sense of humor and love of all things goth might put her out of place at most “mommy and me” gatherings, but this is especially true on the swanky Upper East Side where she originates. However, Jill isn’t one to waste her time worrying about what other people think. Instead, she worked her alchemical writing magic and spun this into comedy gold, using her position in society as inspiration for the screenplay – turned book – turned TV show, Odd Mom Out. She also plays the feature role in the show, utilizing the talent honed from acting in numerous plays during her time at Yale. Jill’s creative journey has taken her from arduous internships to writing rooms to the confines of her home office and back again. Jill now plans to return to the big screen as she sets out to script a film inspired in earnestness by the life of her teenagers. Thanks for listening! We love our listeners! Follow Superwomen on Instagram. Big Ideas  Trusting yourself and listening to your gut. [12:55] “Better sorry than safe.” The importance of pushing beyond your comfort zone to do the things that are important to you. [30:58]  ---   This episode is sponsored by  · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. 