Its Behavior bitches Hey guys, it's Lia hot and Casey today. We are back for episode 8. This is so exciting episode 8 feeling. Great. Oh, yeah, Casey that's real cool. And the topic for today is something that we know so many women and men struggle with done done done eating disorders. This is a heavy topic but we are really excited to have a guest on who is going to open up her personal life. But before we get into that, we wanted to really thank you guys so so much for tuning in to us each week if we get to a weekly episode, which we're doing pretty good. We seriously love when you guys reach out to us via Facebook or Instagram if we haven't gotten back to you bear with us because life is hard. We're just trying to get some money to pay my rent which is working. But we always want to just thank you guys for tuning in because you are why we continue to podcast you rry all that. Thanks. Don't forget to subscribe. Wherever you listen to your favorite podcast follow us on Instagram and Facebook at Behavior bitches podcast and leave a review with five stars. Only please if you don't want to leave five stars, don't lie. Leave a review won't be mad if you don't but if you want to leave a review leave 5 Stars Polly's now for our five star review of the day, which I see Casey is getting ready to go and then I'll just give you a quick update of what's happened in my life. I turned 29 two days ago for those of you who care and I finally decided to open the anthropology bath mat that I got as a wedding gift back in March, but I have not wanted to use it because I was scared or get dirty, but I decided Did no time like today to open the anthropology bath mat. Thank you. Talia guden, since I never sent you a thank you card yet. Shout out to you girl now for our 5 star review of the day Casey take it away. All right. So this one is titled you both Rock. Oh God. I don't know what I would do at all these reviews its from Jazz to eight seven zero. She says, I'm loving your podcast. I recently passed the New York license behavior and Let's examine June and have been in the field of behavior analysis for 20 years. Amen. Girl. Wow, when I was studying I put my radio listing behavior on extinction recently got into listening to a VA podcast and years has been the first that truly resonates with what we do on a day-to-day basis. Oh my God. I know I'm going to cry. Actually I'm enjoying the guess you are inviting to speak as they provide insight to our field tying in the behavior principles of that plus as it enables all of us to see how behavior is everywhere. You for making my car right in between clients that much more enjoyable hurts. Oh, she's been in the field for 20 years and she's listening to our bullshit. No, I'm like, I feel really honored just italics but you can hear us. Well, you're listening that if you can hear us, yeah, if you actually do listen to us like your review we love you and send us a message or post on like our Instagram like or our fan our Facebook group like they read my review or something cool. I want to like Tom know that you heard us we want to know what Experience and knowledge of 20 years in the field and if you could be a good resource for me as your one in the field, so that was awesome. I just wow overwhelmed last with joy hashtag black weeds are I should be are just every title episode. Alright. So today meet let me say this part Casey go ahead because I'm excited about our guest. So today we have a special guest on who has agreed to open up about her personal struggles around eating disorders and how she changed Her behavior, hashtag a ba duh a bad behavior principles. Hashtag ABA it changes the world. Yay. All right, beautiful Casey before we get started. I know I only said about my anthropology. You have my anthropology rug that I opened up in the bathroom. You literally have 15 seconds to say about yourself go. What have you been up to today? At least? Okay. So today I went to a Body Pump class I was Pairing to lift heavy weights. So our guests would be impressed by me. I went paddleboarding after work. I did that zenlea with no phones. I'm trying to disconnect a little bit from social media for my mental health this week. I saw a therapist which I did open up to on so, you know say be a during my class and dealing with, you know, some anxiety issues and stress and not wanting to be you know, my doctor isn't like here's Prozac. Like not a fucking chance. Sorry. That was my FM. I can do this on my own. I got some real good CBD oil went and got a massage and went to therapy and I'm telling you two days later. I already feel like that heart attack feeling is gone. So if that's gonna probably be a next episode anxiety, but right now and I'm going to talk about good and strongly behind anxiety meds. I really do but I know that I believe that if I actually had Had a generalized anxiety disorder, like actual imbalance versus a situational thing causing. I know my trigger, you know what I mean was your work listen to this podcast? It's not my not my work wink wink. No, it's not even about it's a package just being a bcba in general. It is just that but in case he loses their job tomorrow. No, they can about that. It's not that it's basically like it's situational anxiety because it's a learning curve if I'm not perfect at something. Right away. I get really rich I put myself into a really deep place because I'm always good at everything I do and if I'm not I am like I stress out. I worry I just and I know that I need to remove that pressure because no one else is putting that on me, but myself I think that perfectionist at the two that you have is very good a very good introduction into what we're going to talk about today. Amen. Let's go and also there was one thing I want to tell you that I posted on the That denotes a ba and did you see that funny thing? I posted it says it's 20 and you just said you started therapy and it said it's 2019. You have two options therapy or start your own podcast. So I wrote a lot. I wrote on it last couple of years of therapy this year. It's a podcast. So I love that one and I thought it was really cute. So the other one I posted a on a behavior bitches Instagram was by Elizabeth Gilbert who's one of my favorite writers, and she said, My actual job in life is managing my mental help and I was like, yes girl. Yes, but taking control of that. And again, that's a whole other episode right now. Let's get into introducing Our Guest. Let's do it. Before we introduce Our Guest. Let's tell you a little bit about her Lauren lives in st. Louis Missouri, and she graduated with an educational specialist degree and a ba in May. I believe Lauren had told me when we were speaking that she has more than one master's degree, which is hashtag hot. He'll go girl hashtag education is sexy she works with adults with disabilities and severe behaviors similar to you Casey. Her mentors are dr. Pavone as in Maggie Pavone the awesome guest we had on an episode a couple weeks back titled. Don't be an asshole. And her other Mentor is Melissa Weber who Maggie when she was on the podcast had said was also her mentor and everyone speaking so highly about this Melissa Weber chick. I think we have got to get Her on here. Lauren is sitting for her BCB exam in November, but she's already in the study notes a be a collective hashtag overachiever. Hashtag teacher's pet hashtag Casey you're being replaced and she loves to drink coffee and lift heavy shit literally heavy shit. If you stalk her Instagram account, you can find her at letters and lifting. Oh, we'll have to put that in the show notes because her handwriting is so bombtastic and she is drawing some graphics and beautiful stuff for the study notes. Instagram account so follow her go find her. She's so cool. And Lauren, we're so happy to have you here and that you wanted to come on and talk about this topic. We're so thankful. So thanks for coming. Thank you so much for having me. My pleasure. Can you tell everyone a little bit about yourself if I missed anything? I said that you had I thought that you had said that you have more than one master's degree on my right. Yes. I have a master's in of arts and teaching early childhood. Two masters that's amazing. So you real quickly just you work with adults with autism. Yes. I actually am really blessed because I work with Melissa Weber. So she blessed with my my practicum supervisor. And now she's my supervisor for my provisional license. And Maggie was was so right. She is Melissa is an incredible human being and she has she's soshe treats individuals that have very severe and intense behavior in such an effective and ethical and compassionate way. That is all those things in one sentence. That's so nice. I want to write that down ethical compassionate effective. She's an amazing human. So I'm really fortunate that I get to work with I learned from her and I can we had said that she doesn't steer away from any behaviors. Is that is this real the same girl were talking about? Yep. She doesn't stay away from any behaviors has she if she ain't scared her and she what I also love about her is she just maintains the sense of calm so when she's going into any sort of interaction with a with a client, you know be a crisis or not. She's just very calm and heard escalation and it's just so wonderful. To see you know, she's just an amazing person sounds like you're getting really great supervision. Yes. Yeah, and you should be using so happy and that's grateful. That's amazing. I think that supervision is a really important thing which will be a whole nother episode. But tell us yeah anything about you that we missed tell us a little bit about yourself. Let's see I have red hair. Episodes we've had two redheads. I mean the odds of that are we have 19. I mean, isn't that very recessive? Yes, who? Yeah, and my fiancé might I don't know if you've seen him but yeah one yeah, he's a ginger and he is the best person in the entire universe. Like I can't even say how amazing he is. Sounds like you have over again realization. You think they're good? Yeah now I'm like you must be the coolest person. And ever orange is you also send me the most amazing messages where I'm like she's so uplifting. I like how did you know I needed that today like she should I don't need a therapist. I just hate Lauren. That's it. I'll need a Lauren. Alright, so Lauren, why don't we dive into your story? Sure, okay. So before we get there, I just want to say that something that is interesting, which I think I mentioned it for a second but something that because I stopped you on Facebook on Instagram that I see that you lift when I said you lift heavy shit. I mean, you literally lift really heavy shit you You can you tell us a little about your lifting schedule and when how often you work out when you go to the gym. Are you real? Are you really going tell us I'm really going so I have been really fortunate. I've been Lifting for think about three years and I've had several amazing powerlifting coaches. And so my my coach now our program is I mochel and train for time. A week and I trained on a bench and squat and deadlift with some overhead press and I totally out. My schedule is a little crazy. So twice a week I get up and I don't know that's like the biggest understatement I've ever heard so it 3:00 in the morning and I lift and then I come home and I eat all the food all of it to feed those muscles, right? Yep. You can exactly yeah. I felt like that was an important antecedent to let people know this is something that Lauren does now, which is amazing and I'm hashtag envious. So cool. So we're talking about eating disorder. So I just wanted to throw that in that this is where Lauren is currently what she is up to in her life. So I think that's cool to know that we're going to end this with a positive place where Lauren is now so butts. Absolutely. Great. When when did your eating disorder begin? Do you remember? Yeah, so I was diagnosed formally in 2007 and who diagnosis that by the way, I at that point I saw my primary care physician or my pediatrician at the time right? And I had met the criteria that Of concern and so my pediatrician got me in touch with a outpatient hospital in St. Louis. And so I went to dr. There a registered dietitian and then I connected with my therapist who I've been with since 2007. I still see her. So wow. Okay amazing and which eating disorder if you don't mind us asking did you struggle with so I was diagnosed? With anorexia nervosa. Okay. So that's its characterized with a lot of restrictions. So basically refraining from eating food. Okay, so thank you for operationally defining that forever. Luckily. Yep. How old were you I'm trying I don't know how I'm so I'm 29. So I was 16 17. Okay. Yep, so high school and getting ready to go to college and I think that was one of the things that became the initial I guess you could say motivator because I had to be healthy enough to go away to college. Yeah, and so and be on my own and so that was definitely Thing that you know helped me at that point in my time in my life really stick with you know going and seeing my therapist is and making sure I was in consuming the food that the you know, the dietician needed me to eat to get healthy again and to continue to go to the you know that occasion clinic and go through that process. So Pacey sorry, this is for you Casey didn't I think in one of our past conversations you've mentioned that you've struggled with the name? Disorder in the past. Am I thinking correctly wait, am I out just kind of know that was part of the show. Yeah. I actually around the same age. I think I was more 1415 but I struggled with bulimia and I was never actually diagnosed like from a doctor, but it was very bad and I got you know, I ended up being caught by a family member and they could all tell a lie. See pictures of me and I'm like now, you know, of course my eye looks so good. No, I did not look good. Like that was not healthy and I found it almost like a game where I'd be like, I love I'm a very person who needs to be in control and that was my control. I couldn't roll. I couldn't control my home life, which was miserable. I couldn't control my relationship which was not healthy, but I could control that every time I ate I could go to the bathroom and Purge. Judge, and it was a it became like almost an OCD I had to do it and if I wouldn't eat if I couldn't be in a place where I could do that and that probably lasted like 2 years and I think about the Havoc it wreaks on my body on my teeth on all that and I guess I was lucky enough to have finally someone who was like no. This is not happening. You are now being monitored every day. You're not out of the bathroom by yourself. I was put on like a very strict monitoring system. And then I kind of again I was same as you learn this is kind of weird, but I was going to college and it was basically I had to be healthy to go and I had to prove that I wasn't going to engage in those behaviors anymore. But it was hard. It was hard braking that and now I think wow I can't believe I ever did that because right is so gross to me, but it's not gross when you're in it it It is a routine. It is your ritual. It is your release and like same thing is like cutting or any type of behavior. That is something that you can have control over which you can probably speak to that. How did you feel about that? Well, I mean, I think that you hit on at least what I found and Meg, dr. Pavone was so helpful with this because I ended up doing my graduate thesis on a b and eating disorders and I think that what you spoke about is is very much across The board for many individuals who have this who engage in these behaviors. I will just say that you know, and it's also definitely supported by our culture right? Because I mean, even you just said you said you look back these pictures and you're like, oh I look so good. Well, that's not what you truly believe, but that's how are you know, if we think about verbal Behavior right like our social and our verbal Community has shaved us to believe that that is what looks good. And so, you know and again like the research states that It's across family and doesn't matter your economic status or cultural background this these behaviors are very much effective for people in terms of at least for me that negative reinforcement. Right? So you have something in your environment that is aversive to you. You could have something in your actual family environment like you spoke about I also had very immersive private events. And so you know, how however, we kind of want to view that in terms of behavior analysis like those definitely led me to engage in those behaviors of restricting, you know to access either that you know Escape or avoidance from those feelings or those events or as you spoke about and I don't know if it would be kind of access to I don't think we could necessarily say access to tangible but access to that control right access to whatever that control is, you know there I've Read some studies and about I mean, I don't know so much about us. I'm not going to get too into it, but that they were talking about creating another function of behavior being control real Emma because you're trying to think where I heard it, and I'm sorry that I can't quote anything right now, but There was like certain things where you know some kids or not just kids but I'm just talking because that's the setting that I had heard it in for a supervisor or something and it was about the idea and I think maybe it was my supervisor. I was with was doing some research on the potential of a fifth function of behavior being control. I mean, there's nothing that's, you know, been done to change the functions. It's still the four functions we know about Being tangible Escape attention and automatic. Uh-huh. So it's rare that you say that we got because I working with adults, right and it's a very different than children and I feel like every meeting I had with families they are like, you know, they always talk about how you know, they're engaging those behaviors because they don't have control over anything in their life. All things that they can have control over is where they're going to like latch onto and like stick their feet in the mud and you know, especially with like non-vocal adults that you think, you know, oh, well, they you know that they don't really know what control is like. No, they want control. They would Thrive off of when they can have a choice when they can have control. So I just went through this this week would like for families so I don't have to look further into that bring it out of my butt. What do you know if there was? One specific antecedent that you remember like the first time or like okay. I don't know if it's more difficult because let's say like bulimia like the beat it's interesting because like Behavior we say a debt if a dead man can do it. It's not Behavior, right? And so when we say refraining the eating right can a dead man do that? Yeah, he can I'm sure he never will so like I guess bulimia like Casey saying she struggle with that is kind of easier. Operationally Define in terms of an observable objective Behavior like okay, Casey do remember the first time you threw up. Whereas I'm wondering. Do you remember the either the first time that you it's something like triggered? Okay now like I'm not eating or it was like Progressive over time, and maybe I'm just not understanding because something I never struggled with Out. Yeah, well and actually thinking about that especially with my thesis having to come up with you know, those objective and measurable Target Behavior definitions and Maggie and I'll kind of helped me with that and something in terms of anorexia that I defined was, you know, restrictive eating is defined as a decreased rate of food intake across settings and over time. So, you know, hopefully that helps with the Dead Man's test a little bit because you have you know, like this is is this is your rehearing are actually choosing to engage in that behavior to decrease it's not just the admittance of a behavior, right? Okay. Well, I'm happy that right you had written about this and so we could I'm just trying to for anyone may be studying or something to think about because it definitely there definitely are behaviors of someone engages in I'm thinking you know, whether it's Maybe like avoidance like going away from social settings or you know, maybe a behavior you might see someone like flicking a lettuce leaf around their plate or like some I'm sure there's some other observable behaviors we could put with it. Also. Oh absolutely and I think that is part of the criteria and I think that what kind of develops over time as we're looking at these behaviors, they're very covert and you know, like like Casey said you were found out, you know, my family saw Over time what I was doing, you know, when you think something that's very typical of some of these behaviors are, you know, eating by yourself refraining from going out to meals over-exercising things like that. And so there you know there. Yes, there are these like additional behaviors that you know, go along with. Okay. So now we've yrs they go so I'm just you know, like I'm I'm not simply just three four. From eating I'm also engaging on all these other very kind of covert things. So so was there one like if you could think back so people have seen that have an eating disorder like for me my like trigger was I didn't have any control over the shitty life out put into yeah, like, you know, the I thought very spiraling family out of control of drug abuse and alcoholism and abuse physical and I wanted to be perfect and think I was like in control of everything and I believe that was my trigger or antecedent do you have Yes, so around that time my parents got a divorce which is you know, we know this happens in life and in no way am I blaming family or putting that burden on anybody? But you know, I think being in that adolescent period of your life and that's totally out of your control, right? Exactly. So it's out of my control and the eldest of four and so, you know, there's a lot of me, you know, seeing what my siblings are going through at their various ages and kind of stages of development and feeling like okay. There's a lot of pain around me. There's a lot of change a lot of confusion. I'm also as part of, you know, just who I am, but I also think that it's very characteristic of individuals who engage in these behaviors perfectionist as well. And so it's like I want to fix and make better while getting you know the best and academics and you know, and and all of those things and so that was definitely I think that moment in time the inability to control Family environment in my adolescent feelings and all of those things was definitely an anesthesia for me. Today's episode is brought to you by something. That is very close to my heart and Casey's heart. So close that there's nothing I'd want to advertise more. You're wondering what it is. It's study notes ABA. If you are studying to become a BC B A or B CA ba and want to know behavior on a different level that relates to real ass life shit. You need to join the November Collective. Also. I joined the collective for when I sat in February. I found this girl online. I was like, she's so cool. I want to be her. I joined the collective that was Holly out and I became besties from another country another state great another God Reno and I am now teaching with Leah. I taught this Collective and I'm next Collective. I'm teaching we're co-teaching which is what to be cba's bang for your buck and we have so much fun. And then we have two other BCBS in there. Also Manning the chat. So you're getting for be DA's one cup. I mean, what more could you want? Oh God. So anyways, guys today's episode is brought to you by so, you know, say ba the best test prep out there if you want real raw and relatable find us on Facebook study notes ABA just type that into your Facebook search bar study notes a be a.com. Please check it out the websites looking bombtastic. If I say so myself glad to get rid of that dog print the dog prints on there Pavlov is on there. If you want to see what my dog looks like even if you're not setting for the test yet on that website. I have worked hard on this logo with an awesome guy. But anyway, so if you're looking to sign up so also on Instagram, that's where a lot of our coolest shiznit is. You can see all the beautiful handwritten notes and yeah, hope and in your sewing my damn you better sign up for the collective because November is going to be off the chain and it starts September 5th. You should know it starts September 5th. So get on your shit sign up to study. We promise you will be fun and we go through the entire task. List. All right, that's all I have to say for now Tata. I'm also the Elder and a perfectionist and what I think our stories are very similar. Maybe that's why we connected so well without even knowing or do you go yeah, like the middle child and I and she's also so I'm just saying I think Lauren's maybe just like a connectable person. She's a ginger. There it is. Alright, what is another condition that we had? Another question that I have? Another question I have for you is do you feel so that was kind of like an event going on which makes sense that that is like something you probably wish you could control when your parents are getting divorced, but you can't do you think there were any environmental variables aside from that like, I mean now if we look at I know we had mentioned when you and I spoke briefly about Social media for example was social media big then. I mean it was still around then I you know, it's kind of funny because I didn't get Facebook until my senior year of college. I don't think Instagram was going at that point. But I mean if you filter was not as strong as it is it holds. Yeah. The filter damn was not a strong these days with all this filter shit and fake stuff and this is not real life. It is fake book. It is not real you see, right? Come on, Casey babe. I know I got a coin that now I see my friends that are struggling posting only happy shit. And I'm like and I do I find myself guilty of the same stuff. I'm like today. I went to the gym self-care and I'm like inside on Mike having a yeah. I'm like literally I'm like, I need to like people, you know, I tune into my career. I never liked so happy and then that when I do to those people post the real raw stuff of Mike thank God, there's someone being real because I don't have the guts. Right now to do it. Do you know what I did on Instagram today on the Instagram live? I was like you guys want to see a magic trick and I was like watch this look at my hands and I'm like your finger shop. No, I put them on. I'm like I'm like to see this before and as you see I'm wearing gloves right now. My hands are killing today and I'm like watching those guys and it's complete because people need to see that shit. They need to see that like, oh miss positive over here telling us to study for the test all the time like has shit, too. You know and I think people don't do that. No, I think I think you're absolutely right and I think that at the time for me, you know what the content I we did have, you know, then was movies and you know magazines or books. I mean, you know, if you even think about it, like if you read like young adult fiction at the time, I mean, they describe characters. So even as you know kind of trite and cliché as that might sound it's like, you know, they're describing these female or male characters. With the ideals of our society at the time for the body, you know for body image and I mean that sets expectations, you know, and it's still defining What happiness is supposed to look like and feel like, you know even prior to social media all that big stuff. So and I feel like I think actually my middle school days and with no actual and probably these like you said movies or magazines that you read but with really no social media at all zero. I always would look at the girls that had these skinny skinny body types that were you know, just they were just built that way and middle school and you're just it's how your bones are built really? It's like and I was a bigger boned and that was like made merest immediately always think of whatever I ate and I could that was not put on me by anyone else but I mean, maybe outside so environmental variables but more just because I was like, I see that I think that's Supposed to be what I look like and I'm gonna in restricting. My eating only caused me to gain more weight. You didn't actually make me lose weight. And then that's when I turned to bulimia. So it was a long history for sure well, and that's something that I thought was important to look at to because so my undergrad is in Latin and Greek and so I did a lot of other manual. Yeah an undergrad and so there was so cool Latin and Greek. Nick always mentioned Greek roots in my class in my hand like that and you're right because they're super helpful to studies. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but like itself Otto is self guys. Okay. So apparently there you go. You got it. That's as far as my degree goes in Greek Roots. Well, I mean, it's still helpful. So you're teaching very helpful and valuable things. So keeping it alive for all of us but something that and I remembered studying in like women and gender coursework is you know, if you look at the ancient Greeks and the female body type is portrayed vastly different from what we see now and so something I thought about when doing my research is like this is this is there's such a long history of body image and body expectations. And so I talked with Maggie and Michelle and I'm like, well, how do I how does this fit? You know, they Greeks didn't have Instagram back then so Was going on and that's where we kind of talked about, you know selection of you know consequences and you know, again that verbal Behavior peace and and and how our society was shaped and and it's just so in a way it's like Okay. So we've all literally every single one of us has been dealing with this and this has been here since the beginning of time like these expectations have been here, so we're not alone. So I have a question. I just trying to throw in a little bit of learning. Earning here talking about verbal behavior my worst verbal offer in to talk about whenever I'm teaching the class is auto clinics, but Auto clinics is hashtag self-talk, so couldn't that be involved in it? Also like you're talking about your own language or am I taking this too far anyone? No. No because I think I think that that's because doesn't that in please, you know, you guys anybody else out there? Correct me if I'm wrong that goes back to like rule-governed Behavior, right? So we might not even Common contact with certain contingencies but we're telling ourselves. Oh don't eat this or exercise for you know, as long as you need to in order to obtain, whatever ideal you think that you need, but I don't know if I'm you know, no, I know it's not right for me like during engaging in like my own verbal Behavior helps me get through the day. I'm like talking myself through things like it's going to be okay. You could do this. You're great like Modifying my own bro Behavior to like Lawrence and I'm great Lauren couldn't okay. Like you said that you haven't even come into contact with that your tote like, you know, maybe you're told that if you don't do X Y and Z how strong that is for someone who's Perfectionist worry work like us versus someone who's a chill AF person who's like whatever and they don't even stress about those things that haven't even happened yet when we're over here early, but it could happen it could happen. But and I think too with that that's what's so powerful about how young were seeing these behaviors, you know, or individuals engage in these behaviors. I mean, I think that we used to think of it honestly as behaviors in a disorder that adolescent you know women and men and you know humans would deal with and now it's like no this is children children are now dealing with this because you know, maybe they're growing up in a house where they've been told don't eat that because you know, and you know and also is all such a learned behavior as well because it's like I have a friend and growing up her like her mom would literally come and be like, can you make sure she's not going to eat too much when you guys are out, you know, she gets real hungry and we And it'd be like it's like okay the chance of this girl not having an eating disorder are slim because there's this Obsession place in it already or like the parents have come into contact with the contingency meeting like either like they were bullied when they were younger for being overweight and their behavior was punished because like that eating Behavior. So now it becomes a rule governed behavior for their child. And when you see these moms looking in the mirror being like I hate this about myself, I hate this about myself. I'm so fat on my sides over here. Here, you know a lot of behavior is learned, you know, I mean all operate behavior is learned. All Opera behavior is learned. My nephew is 9 and again we have it's funny because my sister and Mom are they're not big bone. They're like little bow if he's if you could say that as a term, but my nephew gently take petite they're petite and that side of the family is and my I took after my dad. I'd and we are fit. We are muscular. We are I'm not there is no I would never ever coin the term fat we just have we like to eat and get healthy good food, but my nephew is this takes after me and he came over the other night. He's nine and he goes he's an auntie and he's so cute. He's like he's so after two he's playing football. He's like running around like crazy. He's in my gym and my house like on the elliptical like just being like playing around like a kid, but he said the saddest thing and he said that kids at school are calling him, you know fat and all this means stuff and that one kid was like basically said he'd murder him because he was tell those good beat the shit out of that never take bullying. I told him he goes, but Aunty he was when I look at you. I think that we look the same and I was like, oh my God, like I know we are the same and he goes, but you're beautiful and I was like and so are you like why you have to tell yourself? I and I sat in the corner and I was like Like literally like you are beautiful you are amazing. You are realistic. Thank you again. And I literally like I'm getting emotional when I was like so hurt and sad that he looked at me and said but you're beautiful but we look alike and I'm like, yes, but I'd like and he was like, he was I tell them that I'm built for power not speed. I gotta get him into weightlifting like not that had nine but like at least Getting him to thank you like lifting. Yeah, and he said that I was like that is the coolest thing I've ever heard of kids saying the entire world. I'm built for power not speed. I think that's like an important lesson because when I think about like as a as a child, I had like abnormal strength, I would say in terms of like my thing for show-and-tell every year would be doing like, oh watch me I could you 68 perfect push-ups in a minute. Watch this I could do 40 clapping push-ups watch this. Like I always have like pull-up bars on my door and all those things and I mean like the joke is now or not necessarily A joke is like I can't even do like a push up now because I literally woke up with lupus and my entire life changed, but my dad something that he did when I think about it in hindsight now is he made me like so proud of that like Leo you are so Strong like you could kick anyone's ass like you like that's not normal and like I like lived up to that because that was and so like for every Show and Tell I tell you I would do push-ups and I would do like this is my karate thing like yeah. Okay now I'm a black belt and I did Muay Thai for years and but I think because but all my friends were little dancers like would go to like Bat Mitzvahs at you know, everyone's about Mitzvah during those three years and they were all like these like tiny little Like doing their little dance routines like one and two and three and four on the dance floor and I'd be like and yeah and yeah, I've had six and seven and eight. Yeah, exactly and but like so when I think about that now just hearing it I'm like, well, maybe that's something important that I want to include like raised and still in my children like because it's so important of that learned behavior aspect of something. Absolutely. I just since we just went a little crazy off topic no, no, it's No way on topic. Yeah, I mean because honestly we that I think honestly what's going to make a change within our society and within our selves and our children and our clients and our friends and our just people is changing that language of what is defined as beautiful and strong and honestly, it's however, you define it, you know, it's truly your own definition. So I think that all the time like little things like I like when I first lost my fingers I was thinking NG, oh my God. My kids are going to be like not know any different like oh, this is Mom. Like this is mom's hands like they won't think anything of it and that just shows that a child is so moldable and these behaviors can be taught like they see this as normal K fine, right but and so we have such control in terms of what we not saying that any of the reason you guys have this was your parents telling you like you need to do this, but like as I'm talking about it now with you guys, like I never realized that before saying like my dad put me in these classes or whatever it was but now in hindsight, I'm Wow, it's so important that we do. You know show them that or like that they do imitate your behavior. So you have to show that you are happy with yourself or and it's just make like off cuff remarks like, oh I hate my stomach, right? Like, you know, it's I've heard mom feel like my stomach's like this because of you and it's like, oh my God, no one especially, you know, and I taught preschool before entering the field of ABA and something. Talked about and our classroom a lot was you are so strong You're Building those blocks. You're playing on the playground. You got to eat that food to grow those muscles you have to sleep and you know, and then that became the language of two and three-year-olds and you know, if you do that with their clients, you know, which you know, we do with some of the clients that we work with, you know to get them motivated to engage in gym and the physical education part of the day is you are so strong. You can do what we believe in you so all of that possible. Positivity about strength and what you can do I think is really really powerful and the cute thing about kids is they will come and tell you like look how strong I am look at this and if only we could say that about ourselves, you know, right nowadays. Anyway my goal my brother with autism who is 22 like he's a personal trainer because girl loves to eat a lot like food is his ultimate reinforce or a long with a lot of kids with special needs or developmental disabilities and he's always like yeah, like feel my all this and that like don't he's always saying it and it's just like You know a lot of us are like we we don't do that and I think it's actually cool to see more of that. But anyways, okay getting to we talked about the antecedent. What about the the consequence where you reinforce or people complimenting you how amazing you looked were were you able to get him with a new group of friends? Like what what consequences did you come into? Contact? No, you said negative reinforcement like you were able to feel like removing something aversive. Which I guess also weight could be aversive and wanting to remove it could be like removing something of ourselves and seeing the number on the scale go down each time. Like it's a Crossing off your to-do list basically like today like and I still find myself doing that. If I don't I do like intermittent fasting sometimes and I'll be like, oh I woke up this morning and I was 4 pounds lighter negative reinforcement is going to increase my behavior to not eat between the hours of 7:00 and In the morning, and you know, it's that removal when you know that it's going to come back on to eat not like I like really lost four pounds. I guess sorry. Go ahead. Oh, no, it's been said that is like my it was mine you my negative reinforcement procedure is the removal of the weight increases my behavior to engage in those behaviors that showed a decrease on the scale. Absolutely. Yeah that I think that there was definitely some of that in my own personal journey and I had let's see I Diagnosed in 2007. I would say considered fully recovered in 2017. And so this was very very long, you know, 10 years of this and and many relapse has and I would say that the behaviors were the same but I think that they definitely changed so, you know when I was younger it was definitely the escape from you know, what was happening in my environment. And the aversive stimuli was there, you know intention component from friends and family possibly people would make comments. I didn't really find that reinforcing but they it was definitely there and I think that probably got stronger social media came about again, like what my deal should is being dictated as and wanting to follow that but then it really kind of manifested itself in the last kind of leg of my journey. That when I was given a diagnosis of obsessive-compulsive disorder when I was I mean I was 24 and so I think it definitely kind of wove itself into that so much more like okay. I need I want to get all this done. I want to you know have perfect grades in my graduate program. I wanted you to be the best teacher ever and I want to do all these things and you know, I have a lot of anxiety surrounding these accomplishments and what I want to do and that fear of Failure and that that not wanting to have contact with failing and disappointing myself and other people and so for whatever reason, you know, that is how I controlled all of that and that all those immersive very punishing kind of internal events that were happening which is this evening. Did you ever go through cognitive behavioral therapy? Yes, so that's what I actually started with. So when I first met my therapist, we initially did. BBT together with a little bit of I think it's called dialectical behavior therapy as well, which was you know, those were both very powerful in the sense that you know, I learned to kind of act opposite of the emotion like, okay, I feel these things and I'm going to engage write in a different behavior. And so that was powerful and then the what I really felt kind of flip the switch of my recovery was Was acceptance and commitment therapy and that's oh my God. I love it. Yep. I love it. It is truly the best book and I really like the Illustrated. I don't know if you've seen that Illustrated one. Yeah, I have yeah. Oh it's so it's kind of ordering in these podcasts are getting expensive for me. I order something from every like, I just got in the mail the other day. I mean, this is okay. Happiness trap I have that book and I will be honest with you. I haven't really had the courage to open it yet. I mean I've had it I okay. Like I feel like it's one of those things where I'm always constantly reading about like how to be a good supervisor how to do this how to manage people and I know that this book is actually going to be beneficial to me in my personal life. Yeah. I'm always focusing on professional life first and I need you know, whether it's teaching and making sure I'm prepared for class or making sure I'm prepared for work and writing programs. Holy shit. You're so perfect. This girl like gets to me like before like it's outline perfect for the class and three days. I'm like bro. I don't even know what I'm eating for breakfast like in five minutes. So I know that first for me and Lauren, I want you to hold me accountable. I want you to like message me and be like, hey, did you open your brother's about to tell you look look right here. I just ordered it and we can have a book. Do it. Actually I think it's great. I got the Illustrated. Have a good idea. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes, and that's what I was going to tell you Casey to do. I don't know if you have that one kind of but let me pack okay. She's getting up right now to do this. She's insane. Just look at her. That's amazing. She's do it now girl. Okay. So anyways, in the meantime, we'll come back to that in one second. I don't okay. So, I'm sorry. I think Katie get the Illustrated one because I think it's so friendly, you know, it's like you said you're not opening yet. Another dense, you know book full of paragraphs and words. It's illustrations and like in Graphics and visuals that you can just quickly flip to add text to kind of say the a yeah get that one. It's so great. Thank you for that advice. I'm so excited. Absolutely. Okay. So in the last two days, these are the books I ordered in case anyone cares. I got analyzing ethical questions from behavior analyst I never had the analyzing one by Bailey and Birch. I ordered podcast advertising works because I was listening to some podcasts about the advertising and it's on the order that and now I have the happiness. Rap so thank God I keep Shabbat. Yeah, I gotta keep Shabbat because when else would I read this. Oh and I ordered an eighth of Clay on Amazon for my niece. She won't eat anything. That's okay anyways, so what behavioral principles have you used a first of all of our get that is this an ongoing struggle? You still have no so I consider and I believe my therapist would agree with me that I am fully. Recovered, which is kind of controversial and and kind of like this area because I think there's many individuals who say that, you know, this is there always be a part of them and I think it's a part of my history of you know, who I am, but I am not engaging in any of the behaviors their story. It does not define you right? Thank you. It makes me feel good. I like literally, I don't know thankful all the time for my health issues. I mean they suck but I'm like dude who would hell would care to listen to me if I wasn't this Edible girl like whose fingers fell off like I'm like, well, I guess I took the finger thing for the team, but it's working in my favor people like it motivates them from day one of the class so whatever. Okay, so what behavioral principles have you used to change your behavior that has led to recovery and now that you understand Behavior, like maybe even realize at the time what you were doing, but when you look at it, what have you done? So I definitely believe it was differential reinforcement of alternative Behavior. And probably and you guys can correct me if I'm wrong incompatible Behavior because we are only a dri. Yeah, okay, because something so let me think so my final relapse I was engaged and I was in a therapy session and my therapist said to me you can either get back on track and get healthy are you there are going to be pretty severe professional and personal consequences. And you know, I've been with her for a very long time. Yep. Exactly. And so I you know is teacher I was getting married. There's all these things and then I you know was talking to my fiancé about my husband at the time my fiancé then and he said I don't know if you're healthy enough to get married. And so again, you know, it was one of those things like You know, he wasn't trying to be punishing. He was just like we really think about that. Exactly and I think that that is what really kind of helped me think. All right. I've been dealing with this for so long. This is not serving me. I need to figure out a different way. I've always loved exercising and I knew that that was very important for my mental health, but I knew that I had to do it in a healthy way. And so that's where I found powerlifting. And this is where the you know possible dri dri and you guys can help me figure that one out is because when you were training you cannot train every single day, at least I can't you know, that's just not part of my program and he can you say what differential reinforcement of alternative behavior is pulleys. Yes. So differential reinforcement of alternative behavior is you're teaching a functionally equivalent behavior for what you were engaging in but it's different than the the maladaptive Behavior. So For you will create alternative right you are you know, you know restricting you're eating right? So now you're teaching yourself to engage in a behavior that's alternative. So you are going to the gym and lifting and now it's like now you have to eat this food, right? Yeah, but I wouldn't say so much incompatible because you could still restrict your eating and lift. Right? I mean you'd be very if you wouldn't do a good job at it, but you could write but not because incompatible I think is awesome. At the same time like at the same time, you can't be texting and sticking your finger up your butt. It just wouldn't work because you're gonna be eating and not eating at the same time. Okay, so they could be definitely and that's a best the DRS are the best because you wanted each of the replacement Behavior. You don't want to just be like I'm going to reinforce with for the absence or you know incompatible but incompatible it like they can then they're not learning another Behavior. They're learning something that they can I do. I think what you did was definitely a dra in a beautifully one beautiful one. I think the only reason and this is where I I really love ABA and I really like should we plug the collective and we really love you. Oh my gosh. Thank you. But I think that this is what's so powerful about you know being in this field is that learning and growing part? Like what was I doing, you know because going into SM like well, I like after lifting hard and lifting heavy. I was so hungry. I mean, so you're absolutely right. I could have refrained that. I was just so hungry. I just it no longer worked like I could know about to say that for example, if someone's like I'm not drinking water, right and then but you're like okay fine, but manipulating that but The antecedent would be okay. I'm gonna make you run a marathon right now. Like you still could refrain technically from drinking the water like no one's shoving the water down your throat unless they like give you an idea or something you're in a state of deprivation. But so it increases the value of that. Reinforcer in that moment and I'm sure you have coaches you could tell me if you're wrong. But the coaches are telling you what your macro should be what you should be eating because if you lift heavy you want to see results, right? You want your body to be like the best it can be and you've got to feed your body and think of it as like it's a completely like it's a well-oiled machine when you're putting the nutrients and supplements that your body needs to be in the best physical shape if you take away the stigma of Your body should look like and think about the internal workings of your body. And if you want to live a long healthy, happy life inside your body the system, right? Lauren. You have to beat that absolutely that's such a beautiful way to say that to and it kind of reminds me of something Melissa Weber says all the time, you know, because I think what's sometimes hard when you're first getting into the field of ABA and I know that there are individuals who have much more experience and then much more research on eBay. And private events, but I think that is what's hard. How do we reconcile ABA, you know the observable or environment to the private events? And she said something that was extremely powerful to me was that, you know, we think about the environment. We also have to think about our internal environment. And so for me, you know lifting, you know allowed me like you said that functional equivalent. I was still able to in a much healthier way, you know avoid some of the aversive anxiety private. Ants and and away because when I'm lifting I'm present moment thinking I'm doing something that makes my body feel good. I'm eating so all of that nourishment helps with my anxiety as well. And you know, I just felt like my internal environment was a much more positive healthier controlled and a healthier way if that makes sense and I feel like with lifting or you have a program right? You have structured. Yep, so yes exactly. If you're not sure, I am sure I just like I think I do well with chaos, but structure is nice. I mean, I definitely know and I will say I do not do well with chaos. I can hopefully pull it back in but structure and a environment where it's like this is my almost like a behavior plan for yourself, right? I'm like, yes. Okay. I'm gonna go to the gym and these classes but once I'm going to and I'm going to you know, make sure ER I literally I have to attend these classes or else Mayan no Mayan mental health will fail. I know that my physical health is going to fail and so you put yourself on a behavior plan likely behaviors. You want to see yourself engaging and it makes me feel a million. I mean in two days just going to the gym twice. I'm like the this is when I need it. I don't need Prozac. I need you to Jim well, and I think to so kind of like you're saying getting back to that self talk so it you know, I have a program so that we have that like self-monitoring Behavior principle that we learn about in ABA to that. I'm you know, my coach gives me afford a plan. I know what I'm lifting. I enter that data I can see the change over time I could graph it if I want to but it's also helped when I have those moments of self-doubt to say Lauren are you exercising because you feel like you need to, you know burn something. Ah for are you training and that self talk for myself about? Okay, what does training mean training means you're eating your food? It means you're sleeping. It means you are managing your stress or reaching out to you know people in the the collective if I'm stressed about that. I can have a check in with Melissa Weber if I need to or Maggie, I can go to my therapist. So that's what training and Recovery is and that self talk of okay. What is it? You know, we will lift you up anytime because you live in absolute and it's so it's so Nice, I love the training idea versus just why are you going are you just like I actually am struggling with and I'm just going I want to lose weight. No, it needs to be a full training program. Right and and of that training is sleeping and eating you don't not going to the gym and I think that that is what's really hard especially with, you know, the language and our culture what we see on social media you this is why we have to be very careful with what we post and and I'm very careful about what I post in regards to something you'll never see. See, at least I hope and people can call me out, but I don't put the numbers that I'm lifting like you're not going to see how much I'm right thing because people can hook onto the numbers but I think what's really hard is that people will follow individuals, you know, powerlifters lifters and really great people but you have no idea what their training program is. So you're looking at them perform this lift in your like they must be going every single day or they must be doing X Y and Z and it's like no you don't know what that program is. They could honestly be We going twice a week. So I think that's standard is so it's what we kind of get ourselves in trouble with something. I've learned like with my own personal struggles with health or whatever it is. I've learned that you never know what the fuck someone else is dealing with and that is my f bomb for the show because you know, and that's a good as brene. Brown says is vulnerability is power when you try create this beautiful image of yourself that everything's perfect. Act like it's total bullshit. It really is and you are not relatable. I literally think half the success of study notes ABA was built on the fact that I'm like, I'm real. I'm going to show you what it's really like. I'm telling you I struggle with this concept. I don't know. Let me look that up in my book. Let me do this. I'm a real human. I'm sick. I'm sorry. I can't be in class. I'm sorry. I'm feeling really anxious right now. I'm gonna have to cancel because I'm feeling really depressed about my help. I'm in the hospital again L. Iran really pissed me off this weekend that I We got in the car and drove away and pack the suitcase and I only like 25 minutes. I'm texting me like 50 times that's amazing on Shabbat which means it's like serious because I really think heard witness. This is something and I actually feel like I have the platform to say it now. I spoke about this like a couple of years ago that I wanted to start it and the point that someone should get from this episode aside from the eating disorder part and I feel like I have the platform to say it now is that filters are fake filters are bullshit. I love the filter that I have Scleroderma and my rash looks so Fucking terrible all the time that I love that I can put those Hawaiian flowers on my head and make my skin look perfect and not have to do makeup because I hate wearing makeup. But at the same time they are completely fake. So I want to start a challenge and I want to and I want people to do this and to tag Behavior bitches and use the hashtag life unfiltered post something real that you are dealing with whether it's your skin issues whether it's Stretch marks, but you actually look like and by the way kids shit on you today, whatever. Yeah, whatever it is, whether like you're taking your fake finger on and off in a boomerang. I don't care but I want people to tag Behavior bitches and use the hashtag life unfiltered. I just like I have thought about this hashtag life unfiltered thing for a long time literally a few years. I just never had a platform and I feel like I'm excited to see what people share with us because I just think ink and I think people don't realize they think they're going to be like more for presenting this perfect life. But no, I think you're out of place when I start teaching the collective the first a couple nights. I am someone like Lauren and wants to be you know taken as they're perfect and everything's together and I am literally prepared for hours and it was like obsessive and didn't really share who I was I just wanted to teach and do a really good job, and that was it and then life, you know happened and I you know started this big new job and blah blah blah and I was just like I would just be like guys here I am I'm struggling. This but I'm here to motivate the F out of you. I just listened to my motivating song and I became real to them and I saw such a change and Lauren. I don't know. I know you're in the collective but like me just being like I know that there are things in life that are hard and I opened up and I'm not good at that. I'm more like any of my friends are like Casey tell us what's wrong. I'm like nothing. I'm fine. I'm perfect. Everything's great and I like when you say that we know it's not great. So like please. Oh, I know the opposite. I'm like, they're like But even the guy who contacted us to his sponsorship on our episode today, he's like so how's your thirst day? I'm like my birthday. How did you know that my birthday was two days ago. I turned 29 Fafa open up everything. I have Lupus like my ex-boyfriend would get it your Leon and you have Lupus. Okay. Do you tell everyone and it's like my story is me. Yeah. I know. I like to hide that and I'm coming into my own because of you. Yeah, honestly, thank you. It's so awesome to be able to admit and Lauren you your messages you send me. I can't even like I'm so happy to sit here and look at you and talk to you because when you send me those I really am like wow someone out there is like that mattered to me. Absolutely and I think that that's what we need to do, you know, not just, you know, teaching our kids and our clients and our friends, you know, that strength is beautiful and all that. But I also think that we if you see something in somebody speak it because here Is a fun fact for you Casey, so my husband comes and he goes to Jujitsu and he comes in at the end of our class. And you said something you said, you know, just trust your gut you've got this truster got trust the think they're my husband Express Jack knows what's up? Yes, and he says that to me now and I'm like that has impacted like this study process. It's impacted our marriage. It's a pet. You know that That those things and that's what you gave to me. And so I really feel like you know, if you see something beautiful on somebody you have to let them know because I mean you have no idea what's going on in people's life exactly when you're really impacting. So thank you for both of you for what you do. Excuse me for being you and coming on and I mean I feel so right now my like I have these like little Goosebumps about this episode. I feel so powerful and like it's going to be it's gonna help so many people that may be out there again not knowing that three of us that are coming off, you know, they've got their shit together. They've got this but guess what we all struggle with stuff and no one knows what you're going through. So reach out and also know that you have a platform here to come listen to hear things that are relatable and we have got you and Lauren I just have one recommendation for you. Yes, your Instagram account is letters and lifting. I think that it would be I think you should do it as at letters and up like a small up and then lifting because if you like to lift and you like the uplift people so that is divine. I was like looking at it and I'm like because like it's called letters guys because and go follow her great. It's called letters because her lettering is like literally perfect. It looks like a print look like a printer, but you were really cute and you're so calm. No, but it's not just like me being kind like trust me. I am picking on people's handwriting like I love hand, right? Okay. No, but here's the thing. It's like I told you yesterday. I literally followed your ABA studying journey and then started practicing hand lettering just I could but I can't do what you do and it's like amazing. I'm so happy. I mean, I just like love handwriting and it happens to work out well. Because as Casey knows because she always has typed outline for our podcast episodes because the end of my fingertips have like Thor's on the end. It also is a great replacement behavior for me because I could hold a pen and it doesn't hurt the tips of my finger. So again, the latter's call to action by her call to action, please post something and tag at Behavior bitches and use the hashtag life unfiltered hashtag and if we see something really good, we will Call you out for it on the episode. So everyone could see your picture with your acne or your stretch marks and I saw something great one time that was saying some people are wishing. They had stretch marks. So just remember that yeah, I love that. Okay, don't cry. I didn't mean to do that. So we love you. We all love each other. This is just so beautiful Lauren and I you for coming on and taking your time and facing a fear of coming on which I know was it that bad? It's just it's I don't weapon then by definitely texted Maggie this morning and I just do any tips and she's like these girls are amazing. It's going to be fine. Great. Yeah, we yeah, that's the thing is we just literally shoot the shit in like anti in Behavior principles because we know them and we want the field we want people to be able to listen and disseminate a ba in a relatable real wrong way all motivated and learn at the same time and also be like, oh my God, there's someone else struggling with this topic, you know, absolutely So, yeah, thank you Lauren letters and lifting dies of you. Yes, thinking of you and Casey, please add letters and liftings Instagram to the show notes. Okay doing it. Now as always guys. Thanks for tuning in. Love. You mean it.
Episode 8 baby. Feeling Great. We are back and excited to have one of our faves, Lauren Milburn on the show. She is opening up to us about her personal experience with eating disorders. Society has made it hard AF to live up to the expectations of what women should look like and apparently CARBS are BAD. GTFO. Healthy eating and exercise is the answer and Lauren is the epitome of that. We think this is a kick ass topic and something that everybody should listen to. As always we keep it real, raw, and relatable. Love ya, Mean it. Show Notes: Readings Go follow @letters_and_lifting Private Events   Anderson, C. M., Hawkins, R. P., Freeman, K. A., & Scotti, J. R. (2000). Private events: Do they belong in a science of human behavior? The Behavior Analyst, 23(1), 1-10. Snyder, K., Lambert, J., & Twohig, M. P. (2011). Defusion: A behavior-analytic strategy for addressing private events. Behavior Analysts in Practice, 4(2), 4-13. Taylor, I., & O’Reilly, M. F. (1997). Toward a functional analysis of private verbal self-regulation. Journal of Applied Behavior Analysis, 30(1), 43-58. Eating Disorders and Behavior Analysis    Beatiz Meyer, S. (2008). Functional behavior analysis of eating disorders. Journal of Behavior Analysis in Health, Sports, Fitness and Medicine,1(1), 26-33. Lappalainen, R., & Tuomisto, M. T. (2005). Functional behavior analysis of anorexia nervosa: Application to clinical practice. The Behavior Analyst Today,6(3), 166-177. Acceptance and Commitment Therapy/RFT    Blackledge, J. T. (2003). An introduction to relational frame theory: Basics and applications. The Behavior Analyst Today, 3(4), 421-433. Harris, R. (2006). Embracing your demons: An overview of acceptance and commitment therapy. Psychotherapy in Australia, 12(4), 2-8. Harris, R. (2013). The illustrated happiness trap: How to stop struggling and start living. Boulder, CO: Shambhala Publications, Inc.    Torneke, N. (2010). Learning RFT: An introduction to relational frame theory and its clinical application. Oakland, CA: New Harbinger Publications, Inc. The Happiness Trap: Stop Struggling and Start Living Russ Harris  Lifting and Behavior Analysis    Moore, J. W., & Quintero, L. M. (1997). Comparing forward and backward chaining in teaching Olympic weightlifting. Journal of Applied Behavior Analysis, 52(1), 50-59. Right to Effective Treatment    Van Houten, R., Axelrod, S., Bailey, J. S., Favell, J. E., Foxx, R.M., Iwata, B.A., & Lovaas, O. I. (1988). The right to effective behavioral treatment. Journal of Applied Behavior Analysis, 21(4), 381-384. 