so we can hello everyone and welcome to living in the square body podcast about barriers to embodiment and how our Collective body stories can bring us back to ourselves. I'm a sharp interest and I appreciate you joining me today. As always. I would really appreciate that. People are rating this podcast on Apple podcasts. I have a goal to reach as many people as I can with these interviews. So if you can take a moment and give this podcast if I star review before listening any further, I would love it. So on to the it's this is definitely a month of upcoming workshops that are all about diving deep in the realm of what healing means both from the perspective of working as a queer healing practitioner and also as a person doing their own healing work in both of the workshops that I'm offering we will interrogate what health means and what nourishment is and can be And a lot more on October 28th from 7 to 9 p.m. Eastern Standard time. I will be hosting a virtual workshop for queer healing practitioners in this Workshop. You will come to the group with some Stock points, whether it be stuck points in the realm of burnout struggles to maintain sustainable coping and containment tools Annie for Mutual recognition and balance or seeking. I Is to redirect or enliven your career this Workshop is open to therapist sex workers yoga Pilates personal trainers medical professionals. Doulas astrologers body workers Reiki practitioners. I guess that's body workers coaches herbalists breathwork facilitators teachers join in we Think as practitioner, sometimes we get really siloed into our little world and especially our Instagram. personal business Areas, I don't know if anyone can relate to that and kind of lose touch with the need to really have peer support around how complex you know, quote-unquote healing work is and what it means to be a practitioner with integrity and with a body and with a story and with a life all of that. We will discuss in a Explorer and open up. So I hope you join me another Workshop that I'm offering it's going to be held on November 10th from 6 p.m. Eastern Standard Time and I'll be co-hosting part one of a two-part virtual Workshop. You can do both parts. You can do one part. The first part is happening on November 10th, and I'm co-hosting it with Marielle Berg, who is a The therapist and podcaster. She's trained in the health at every size modality. She's the host of the skillful podcast and it's just a cookie. Both of those are definitely worth listening to those podcasts. She's a queer white cisgendered therapist. As I said in recovery from an eating disorder. She is the founder and director of the Bay Area DBT in couples counseling center in San Francisco. She also supports people worldwide. I am feeling disordered eating and body hatred through online coaching. So the workshop is called Health ISM and nutritionism are not helping with your healing. It's open to all people including those in the health and healing professions as well as those like us who have been impacted by Health ISM and nutritionism in our own relationships to our bodies and Marielle and I will talk a bit more openly about that that act in the workshop will Define what health is Amanda nutritionism are and how those Concepts interfere with true healing you will have the option to meet again for another were actual Workshop in early 2020 with Ilya Parker of decolonizing fitness and a past podcast interview you if you haven't listened to the episode with Ilya, please go back and listen to it and find out everything about what Iliad. I support it all and in 2020 will early 2020 which I can't believe it's almost that time. We'll delve a little bit deeper into this topic around Health ISM and nutritionism. But in essence both workshops are pertinent for people who can relate to some of these questions. Do you find yourself choosing Foods based on whether they are good bad or clean do you? Inhabit a disabled fat or chronically ill body that is judged for being bad week or lacking in discipline. Do you work with people in your professional life who negatively judge others who aren't healthy or themselves? Do you intellectually disagree that health is not entirely in your own hands, but find yourself making decisions in your life that are driven by an imperative to constantly improve your health. There are openings for both workshops and you can register on my website which is living in this queer body.com or through the link in my Instagram bio at living in this queer body. Also just to note these workshops are going to be available to the life participants and also to people who register they can have if you can't show up for the live event you can have access to a recorded copy of the two-hour Workshop. So these workshops. Both of them are all extremely relevant to our podcast guest today the lovely and skillful, Frankie. Grrrr, Frankie is an acupuncturist and herbalist with a focus on trans affirming Health practicing out of Brooklyn. They offer a sliding scale for people of color trans people and sex workers. You can find out more about their practice at yarrow underscore medicine on Instagram. That's why a rrow underscore medicine on Instagram. I hope you enjoyed our conversation. And find ways to support this podcast and the very important work that Frankie is doing in the world. So Frankie, it's really glad I'm really glad I'm really glad to have you this morning. And to talk to you. Thanks for being here. Yeah, thank you for inviting me. So I guess I'd like to start with a question and and it's something you and I have kind of talked a little bit about prior to the interview as like a sort of challenging question to answer and I myself have actually been trying to answer it because for myself because that only seems fair in some ways. I'm going to be asking this question to people and I've being on the receiving end of it. I'm like, oh this is a really confronting question, but we'll give it a try. And so, you know, I guess I'm curious about your early experiences of what you learned about having or being in a body. Yeah. Well, I think you know if if I'm being honest there's trauma that's involved in that. So I may be a little more vague and answering but I know one thing that I think kind of pretty big impact on me as a kid is just being exposed to pornography at an early age and that sends so many confusing messages Stewart sent me confusing messages about gender. Durand like you know, I think beauty standards and then you know, of course measuring myself up to that and feeling like I can't compare so that definitely was something that influenced my childhood. Hmm and maybe just, you know feelings of like confusion around how sexualized body should be your like how I don't know like there was sort of like a I think this like learning about sex and bodies in a way that wasn't actually true or real. It was like a fantasy and you know, and then I kind of equate and you equate it more with like violence or I don't know just like very convoluted Association. Yeah. Yeah, and I think I think that's it makes a lot of sense, especially when it not even especially but in particular at an early age that just like that experience of not really understanding that we're even in bodies, you know, like today and then coming in to a realization of being in a body. I'm sure it's like a lot to unravel and you know, we'll talk about it more but you know, it's the lat it's been a lot for you to unravel throughout your life. Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely Been a lot of unlearning that I still have to do. So yeah, totally. Yeah. How did you how did that kind of like shaming or I don't know bullying maybe hopefully not but how did that play out in terms of how you continued, you know throughout your teenagers and into early adulthood around gender and oh god, well, sorry I kind of cut you off but I'm like so I remember distinctly like Being I because I kind of like started puberty late. I had her I had a short haircut. I was like obsessed with Sailor Moon and I like wanted to be clear anus which is like so funny because like I had no concept of like transness at that point, but like of course, I gravitated towards that character and but I remember in Middle School like kids would push me into the boys bathroom and like they were really mean about me and not presenting and like a more feminine. And I also like, you know like messages from media growing up like, you know, I always kind of felt like I couldn't live up to this like standard of like - him Beauty and I think for a long time because I was told that that was wrong or shameful or like, you know, like almost like disgusting and I guess in some ways I definitely like tried really hard. Hard as like a young after middle school high school. I really want to achieve this like Beauty standard and I don't know it's just been like pretty recently where I've been like, you know what I don't really want to like do that. I can like Embody a lot of different like sides of myself and like if I want to be really fat my can do that, but also like Grace remember that coming up as a kid though, like being kind of told that like the way that I was presenting was. Like aberrant and weird. It sounds like you had you had like these role models in the form of, you know, like, you know, Sailor Moon or whatever, but did you have did you grow up in a place that where you had people around you who you were like attracted to our thought you you know, you wanted to be like or you know, did you have access to that? Not really. I remember I grew up in Greensboro, North Carolina. Sorry, that's the train going by and but yeah, I grew up in North Carolina and I like I didn't really feel like there was like a lot of like queer people in my school. I remember having like some crushes on like friends, but then like kind of just like not allowing myself to ever really go there. Mmm, and I also remember having crushes on like boys, so I was like, okay well like all redirect myself. Way, you know, so yeah, I think it was only like it really wasn't until like my adulthood that I was like, oh, this is actually something that I want to explore more. Hmm. And how did you get there? Like, what did you have to do in order to explore that more? Yeah. I think it was just about meeting more like weird weird people and be like, oh, yeah. I mean I was all you know, it's so funny because like I Feel like I was attracted to queer Community like I started going to Ida in 2011 and you know at that time I was like, well, I'm not I'm not queer. I just like want to go to I did you know, I was like, I'm just like here is like, you know, but then it's like it's so funny because you're like, why would I be attracted to that space if I like wasn't? We're just like though the ways that you kind of like go arrest skirt around the issue. But yeah, I think like mmm, I was living in Nashville at the time and I think like there were more just like visibly queer and trans people in Nashville. And then that kind of like helped me to be more exposed to community. Mmm-hmm. Yeah and during that time the time of like, I don't know a finding. Elf at Ida or like, you know beginning to explore queer Community or connection to queer Community. What was what was going on for you in terms of how you are feeling about? Your body and your kind of sense of self. Well, I mean my relationship with my body. I don't know. It's always been really I mean, you know, I'm sure for everyone it's like very complicated but I'm definitely struggled with like disordered eating and which I also think like has a lot to do with gender. Actually. Can you say a little bit more about that? Like what your thoughts are about how it how it connects because I mean I completely agree but for many people but I feel like we don't Maybe we as a community. Don't talk about that enough. Yeah, I mean I think it I've only recently been starting to kind of connect those dots. I have a lot of friends who are like trans masculine presenting and we've talked to them where you know, we're like yeah, we have these eating disorders and I think it's because like it's hard for me to accept like, you know, like a more like statement in fat distribution or like it's hard for me to accept these like more curves or whatever, you know, and not to like, you know, I'm hesitating saying that because I don't want it to sound like that phobic or anything but I just like I think that it does get like really wrapped up in this like gender presentation and like a lot I recently started like a low dose of testosterone and I think that that's actually been helping like a lot with body image stuff and I've had a lot of a lot of my friends here. Also, Auntie they're like, yeah, it really helped my eating disorder, you know, so it's definitely seems to be tied in yeah. yeah, yeah feeling like you have some may think so many people I work with and as a therapist and in community and personal friends to its there's something about And I think especially if you grew up or like weren't exposed to or haven't met met enough queer Community yet that will help you navigate this kind of like just broadly dysphoric experience. You know, like if you don't have any of that then there are lots of things that we one can do to sort of take things into your own hands, you know, and it is I think very on some level very effective. you know certain forms of disordered eating can really help give one a sense of control around something that feels very like pretty much inevitably not within our control ultimately but you know is like really difficult. And so I think I don't know just validating that that that's such a common experience. It's not talked about that much. I'm glad to hear you talk about it and also it's yeah, it's just a so prevalent and I imagine you also see that with some of the people that you work with in Europe. Dis you know? Yeah, that's like really struggling to really like trying to find methods to address just profound discomfort in one's body. Absolutely. Yeah, you know kind of like piggybacking on that idea or that theme is another thing I've seen and I also relate to is tattoos. I feel like are very like you know not it's like not an overtly like gendered thing, but I feel like I've seen a lot of Folks who? Yeah, they're like trying to control how their bodies are perceived by like easy and Tattoos to kind of like Mark them in a way where it's like I'm rejecting this like idea of like, you know femininity or like what like that looks like and I'm like, dr. The bunch of my clients here, like non-binary who say that like that's something that really helps them feel more in control, you know, and like I don't no scene. Hmm, and I definitely relate to that as well. Mmm-hmm. Yeah, when you when you were struggling more, I guess with disordered eating and not having a kind of sense of Yes control over how people were relating to you. How is that affecting? I don't know like your relationships or the kind of community that you are it was, you know, where you like super isolated or have you been isolated around it? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, there was a long time where I wouldn't I wasn't ready to admit that that was an issue and I just kind of I was at it's actually kind of interesting because on some level. I think that the disordered eating was a part of the reason why I was interested in acupuncture and like alternative medicine because I got on this like really intense Health Care where I was like, okay when I like almost like I mean, it was definitely like to the raxiom. Yeah, right, so, you know Kind of funny because it did lead me to study acupuncture while I was in school though. They were like, yeah, you know, like the the eating habits I had they were like, yeah, those aren't actually like we don't promote those. So it was kind of cool for me to like hmm. I was doing this thingy. I just got like really like went down this Rabbit Hole of like health and fasting and like raw foods and like I don't know all this blue stuff that that I think is actually really dangerous and it did take me going to school and study and more about it too kind of like Snap myself out of that. I guess or just realized that like and be more willing to admit that that Wasn't like actually healthy, you know, I was doing it under the guise of health. And yeah, I mean it was very it was definitely isolating because I really structured my whole day around, you know, eating I can't you know, it's hard when you can't share meals with people because you have such limited or like such rigid dietary restrictions. He can't talk to people about it and I think on some level people can sense that there's something going going on because they see they see you doing that, you know and and you know, and I also like what I mean and I still do this but like I exercise a lot and that's like something that It's kind of like this thing where I'm like, okay, like I know that I can do this compulsively but it also helps ease anxiety. So, you know, I don't know it feels like it's both of those things. But yeah, I think it used to be a lot worse. We're like, I just would like really structure my day around around the eating disorder and like friends and lovers and whatever came second. Hmm, and now that I'm like, or able to admit to it and talk about it when I am having like Anxious thoughts about eating or like meaning to exercise I'm able to just like Express that and be like, this is like this thing, you know, and I think that that's a lot more healthy than like trying to isolate myself and keep it a secret. Hmm. Yeah. I'm just thinking I'm like in some ways. I'm really glad not that you know Chinese medicine is it's not like it's a perfect system. But you know, it's really in some ways. I'm glad that you in your deep, you know dive into quote unquote Health you found Chinese medicine and not something else like there are lots of there's so many other things that you could have really taken a deep dive with and I wonder like, you know, this this is kind of like a personal professional question, but you know, as you know as an acupuncturist, do you how do you feel when people much like yourself are coming in to work with you who are like doing the fasting thing are doing the you know, whatever. They're the kind of I don't want to just talk about fasting but you know, just doing whatever the the sort of popular somewhat orthorexia que. No restrictive diets are how do you navigate that? Well, usually I just try to be really I don't like to push. People very hard because I think that that's like a Surefire way of making people feel alienated and like, you know, I think that you have to build up. I don't know you have to build trust. So basically like when someone comes to me and they're talking about like a certain diet or something that they're doing that I don't necessarily agree with I won't really mention that but I will give them information that I received which is like, you know, if your Digestive system is working correctly. Your body should be able to handle whatever you throw at it and you know, I might offer that as some information if we're working with like a blood deficiency, which could be kind of translated as like iron deficiency or B12 deficiency. I'll just kind of let them know I'm like the best way to build blood is like by eating meat, but if you don't want to do that, then here are some other, you know other sources of that. So I just kind of gave them information. Not without trying to pass a lot of judgment on it. But also to kind of let them know like hey this system is not like it's not about eating, you know completely Pure or it's not about being totally vegan like you can you know, there's like you can tailor it to fit your needs and it's not as rigid as one might think Hmm and I do sometimes think that people come in and you know, they're like It was just I mean I also did this, you know, they're kind of like proud to tell me that their diet is restricted restricted in the certain way and and that's when I tend to offer up the information like well, actually I like Chinese medicine like eating meat is okay, you know, but but I just I don't like to push, you know, I really try to like I tried it offer the information and then not not really say much more. Mmm. Why do you think yeah, I mean, why do you think I think you offer something very particular probably for me. I guess everyone does but you offer something very particular to the the clients that you work with in terms of like a kind of permission. I know you work with a lot of like queer trans non-binary people and what do you think like, what's what do you think you're doing or providing for them that they're looking for? You know what I mean? Like what typically like people who come to Find you or who do find you. well, actually so it's funny because I feel like I'm just trying to provide an environment that feels less clinical actually, which I think is kind of funny because you know in school we were like taught like you have to be like really professional and like we're trying to be seen as like super legit and this field and and I you know, I kind of been like breaking the rules and that way because I'm like no it's like at my house and like I don't know like it's pretty intimate even though it is Community Acupuncture. I only work with two tables at a time. So like Yeah, it's a more intimate environment. I don't think I like no, I don't have like I don't know everything in terms of cultural competency, but I try to like be aware of those things. And yeah, I'm just like trying to make things seem a lot less scary and like clinical because I know that those environments are for seems like a lot of queer folks, you know, that's actually We really intimidating. Ironically. It's so funny because I just started I just got a Yelp page and so I've been getting more like, you know, like people from Yelp who don't necessarily identify as queer or like I had a couple come in at one point and like I could tell that they were actually disturbed by the fact that it was at my home and that it wasn't clinical because they were expecting that so I just I was like, oh, that's so funny because like what? Appeals to some is like a turn-off for others. So, you know, it's about like where people feel comfortable. Hmm. And also like I think it speaks to kind of like how certain people like clinical environments are set up to cater towards certain folks rather than others. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it sounds like you had to Go through this very formal training that you I guess I can I can also relate to this in the sense that you know going through a very formal training where a lot of were taught a lot about boundaries and you know, the way boundaries should look and thinking about the way that you work. You are still holding a tremendous amount of you know, like safety and boundaries Within a kind of just it sounds like just an environment that feels more accessible to people who don't typically find clinical environments accessible. Probably you don't either you know what I mean? I would imagine you kind of I don't know if you feel like this but it sounds like in some ways you've created the environment that you would want to be treated in. Absolutely. Yeah. Mmm, which Speaking of that. How do you how do you get Hard for you. Ha ha ha. That's a really difficult question. I well I've been trying I go to stat key puncture occasionally. I wish I went more because honestly, I had a hard time finding, you know, how when you like practice something you're like very like, you know, what's going on and you're like they're doing that thing. Like that's how I feel when I go to get so it kind of sucks because I can't like take myself out of the process and I I wish I wish that I could go back to time when like I could but yeah, I mean, I guess in New York I get honestly get a lot of massages. That's like something that feels really good for me and just recently like I said, I started going to aperture which was like that was a huge step for me because I hadn't been to like a doctor like a western doctor aside from getting like a physical examination and Planned Parenthood, you know every year I like really avoided doctors and and A suitable medications and like I was a big need for me to be like, okay, I'm going to do this and thus far I've felt really good about apertures diplomatic. And like I feel really lucky to live in New York City where there is more access to like trans health care and you know, and it's like covered by my insurance. I don't know. It's like pretty cool. Nice. I've been talking to other people, you know who are asking me about Like tea and they're like, oh, I can't even get AndroGel because I'm using the T Joe and they're like, I don't even think that they offer that as a an option where I live and like they had to go through this whole like procedure of like getting us Psychiatry or sorry a psychologist to like write a note and you know, I just like I just went in there and they're like, yeah you want tea and I was like, yeah sure. Yeah like it was very like I didn't even know I was going to do that that damn That I had like an idea and then I was like, yeah. Okay, let's go for it. But I don't know. So yeah, you have this huge smile on your face and in some ways I'm like thinking you know, that that that is such a good marker of like helpful attuned care is to be able to like open up possibilities for someone that they kind of like because of Of conditioning because of the world we live in like haven't allowed themselves to imagine. This is possible. Like you weren't kind of in a mindset where you're kind of like in a more constricted mindset or like maybe or you know, you hadn't really thought that this could be something for you or something for you right then, you know, we'll all my friends would tease me. They're like you're going to start to you when you go to heaven. I was like, I don't know. I just really want like Wellbutrin like we'll see and then when it's just like I know right it's just like I just Here, I don't know why I chose the trans clinic, but for the antidepressants like right? Yeah, but now I feel really like lucky to have that as a resource. Yeah. Yeah. Have you lived in New York for a long time or I moved in November 2016. Mmm-hmm. So yes, it doesn't feel like I've lived here very long, but time is Wait, I don't know. I feel like time is sped up. Hmm really get invested in this as a place that you appreciate. Yeah II think so. I definitely go back and forth. But the more that I'm here the more I'm like, yeah, I really I don't think I could. Find the things that you know, I New York has a lot to offer and you know, I think once you live here for a little while, it's really hard to go back or to go and buy back. I mean go somewhere else where there's just like must community and like whatever thing that you want to get involved in. Yeah. What are do you what are some of the things that are like pretty inspiring for you? about and I'm not trying to paint a picture of New York is like this, you know magical place in any way, but just, you know curious about what What aspects of your like queer life, you know, and your needs are met here. That might not be somewhere else, you know? Yeah. Well, I really feel like I let my freak flag fly in New York in a way that I definitely can't other places and it's it's really interesting because I do go back to North Carolina to visit and like each time. I feel like I'm getting more and more of a reaction, you know. like my physical appearance and you know, I identify as like kind of like Bushwick neutral because I certainly am like not like even near like as you know, how do I say it like freak freakish is like a lot of people but but yeah when I go back down sad that's like I'm like the weirdest thing around so, you know, it's not and I really like, you know, I think like the way that by dress and the way that I present is really important and being able to do that here has felt really liberating. There's a lot of trans people here. There's a lot of like weird people here and I don't feel again. I don't feel like I'm like though one solitary freak in a town, you know, or like one of like three, you know, so that's been really important to me. Unrelated to like queer identity. I also have been I started writing within the past since I've moved to New York and like there's definitely more Community around that here and just pretty much like any interests that you have. You're going to be able to find Community around it in New York. So that's really inspiring. I think you know I ask that just because they think there's so many ways that we can we meaning I or whatever we can complain about life in New York and but I do think there's something to this idea of you know, like identifying kind of what what is actually supporting ourselves our bodies in being in a place and the specificity of one's experience like the specificity of your like personal aesthetic or your personal like whatever it is about you. I think that's kind of what you mean by you know, like letting your freak flag fly, you know it I think there's so much I don't know if this is what your experiences I grew up in Missouri and so like when I've gone back it's almost as if and I'm this is not to say that there aren't like really cool interesting queer people in Missouri, you know that there's a way Like identity becomes kind of flattened out and Consolidated because there just aren't very many. There aren't as many options and you can't like develop these like very particular aspects of yourself and I think in some ways I've seen just in kind of like, you know getting to know you and seeing the way you work that even within your like professional life. There's there's so much like attention to Aesthetics and some of the things that you are that are really interesting to you that that are so specific in a way, you know that I don't know if that resonates for you definitely and I feel like I was told a lot, you know growing up or even in school that those things were that they couldn't come together. I guess like I had to Like kind of forego my sense of Aesthetics to appeal to like a greater audience or that my sense of Aesthetics was like threatening to people in a healing profession. But and also like it really kind of like discredits your ones this Aesthetics is being really integral to one's identity. And I find that like especially for queer people that that's very true. And so Oh, it's really I don't know. I am really I'm lucky that I get to live in New York because I don't feel like I have to subdue it as much as I have had to do in you know, the South or like living somewhere else and just being really unabashedly with like hey, this is like important to me in my identity how I present is like very important and it's not just like I feel like a lot of people want to dismiss it as just like vanity, you know, but I think that it's more than I am really yeah, I feel really lucky that you live somewhere where I can explore that more and it's okay. Yeah, I think you're I think one of the reasons I'm so kind of drawn to you is because I also work in like the kind of broadly healing and world and the Clinton like a clinical healing world where the idea of a kind of quote unquote. FedEx is also really sore streamlined and limiting right here like this. Like there's a lot of like aiming for neutral or you know, whatever and I think that there's something really lovely about the way you and this is mostly based on kind of how you have curated your you know, your Instagram, which is I think the main way you like sort of do your business but you know the way you carry it that it's like it It's very it's not neutral. It's not like clinically neutral. It's very much like you're showing with consent obviously, but you're showing like bodies and healing practices that are in some ways. They're very they're like, very provocative and really like, I don't know. Maybe you could talk a little bit about that. Yeah. Well, I mean, I feel like I I feel like I've broken a lot of rules. Way that I yeah showcase my work but it's been important for me because I think I think it's important to show different types of bodies and like not just have it be this like homogeneous. I don't know like stereotypically like white woman, you know, sis woman like I don't know Gwyneth Paltrow type, which I feel like is the type. That generally gets attracted to acupuncture at this point, you know, and I'm like, I like really resist that and like I'm very critical of it. So, I don't know I think that my Instagram is like impart me just like trying to push against that and you know, I get like I'm technically not really even supposed to show people's faces, but I get them to you know, what I've done to like make that Okay is to like I always get people to sign off and say that they're okay with being photographed. That's kind of like my way around that so I never you know, I always want to make sure that people are onboard and generally speaking people are really happy to be photographed and like feel good, you know, so but yeah, I've definitely had some people be critical of the way that I present Myself and I You know have had to just kind of like really trust that the way that I'm doing things like feels good for me. Yeah feels good for you. And also the people that are going to really stick with you and get something out of what you're offering are going to you know, that's I mean as a clinician I also feel that way. It's like we can only Like really truly be helpful. I think to the people who are who we kind of who we connect with in some way or who connect with our way of being and I think that there's something about you know, the way that you there's a kind of resistant resistance or kind of provocation in the way that you are. The way you're showcasing your work feels to me like you're saying if you are a Gwyneth Paltrow type and you want to come get acupuncture like this is what it's actually going to look like and you know, there's bloodletting or there's you know, there's there's a kind of like a rhotic - and I certainly don't mean to say that like it's, you know erotic meaning exactly what I'm saying, not like sexual necessarily, but just there's an erotic nature, too. To Healing like the body, you know to interacting with the body and to being careful with it and caring for it and you I I personally I mean, I really appreciate the the way that you are kind of giving us a glimpse of that and if that makes sense, yeah. Well, thank you. I mean, I think it's about intimacy to like and yeah something that I think about you because I do feel like you know the photos, huh? Have this like some of them can have this like erotic feel to them, but I'm also kind of pushing against the ideas that bodies are inherently like erotic just by being like exposed or it's like why is that? Oh, well, that's because of the way that like Society set up and like we like have to censor ourselves. So I don't know. I'm just kind of like that's an idea that I toy with a lot, you know, like really it's just someone's Tell me earlier no and but yeah, I mean it definitely like they're you know, I'm kind of playing with this those ideas. So yeah. Yeah, and I think that that's that kind of intimacy. I like what you're saying about about challenging like just that an exposed body like some version of an exposed body is is necessarily like sexual it, you know, but also I like what you're saying about just Kind of the intimacy of quote-unquote healing or whatever encounter the vulnerability in someone presenting themselves to you and how you don't know in some ways. It seems like you are really aware of those Dynamics, you know, you're very aware of the the kind of vulnerability with which someone comes to you. And so you're kind of exposing those Dynamics in a way right like that. I'm like this is what's actually happening and it's it's not bad. It's like this is it's sort of you know, I mean, it's in a way it like it references to me like the more explicitness of Kink and those Ideas are up being explicit about what's about to happen or what is happening? Totally? Yeah, so I guess you know, honestly this is about we're almost out of time and I guess the the last sort of question I have for you and then I'd love to hear about you know, how people can find you is if you could think back to that like, is there anything that you you knowing all the things, you know now like would like to Wish you could say or compel someone to do with that younger version of yourself. Gosh, that's really question I don't know. I mean, I think I would just try to be like hey, it gets better just like stick it out. It's okay what you're feeling and how you are you even if it's not something that you see in your day today. Hmm. Hmm. Tell the listeners how they can find you. Okay? Well, I guess the best way to find me is my I'm which is Yaro underscore medicine and I sometimes you know teach workshops in New York and I'm planning to kind of like cooking up a tour of the West Coast. Hopefully in the fall where I would like to swear with Gua Sha Workshop. Hmm. So yeah, definitely like stay tuned for that. Can you just Tell people what Gua Sha is. Okay. We'll go Asha is a technique that I use really super accessible and Hands-On and it resets the faccia. It breaks up lactic acid. So it's really great for like I use it mostly for upper back and neck tension, but it's also really good if you're it moves length, so if you're coming down with a cold you can kind of like nip it in the bud by using gotcha. And it's just like it's one of the I think it's something that I use on almost everyone and it's so like once you kind of learn the nuts and bolts of it. It's super easy. You don't need a lot of like special equipment to do it. So I like to teach that because I really like not only do I want my services to be accessible. But I want people to be able to you know, take that into their own hands and even their own healing practices. Has so yeah, that's something that I like try to do education around full. I love that. Yeah. Well great. Well, thank you so much for sharing your story with your story with me and their listeners. Yeah. Thank you so much for asking me to be Beyond. I really enjoyed these questions and just kind of like the rabbit holes that you got. Yeah. Well, thank you, Frankie. Yeah. Thank you. Okay. Can I maybe maybe not? Maybe
Frankie opens up about their journey with disordered eating as a way to manage dysphoria and the things they are finding to assist with anxiety without extreme orthorexia. Their relationship to rigidity has evolved as a result of their study of Chinese Medicine along with giving themself permission to speak openly about their body’s experience. Frankie breaks all sorts of rules in the spirit of providing an open and safe environment for queer, trans and non binary patients. Frankie is an acupuncturist and herbalist with a focus on trans affirming health practicing out of Brooklyn. They offer a sliding scale for People of color, trans people and sex workers. You can find out more about their practice @yarrow_medicine on instagram. I hope you enjoy our conversation and find ways to support this podcast and the very important work Frankie is doing in the world. They speak about a NYC community health resource for trans healthcare: Apicha @apichachc   LITQB Podcast   This is a podcast about the barriers to embodiment and how our collective body stories can bring us back to ourselves. This is a podcast for people who identify as queer or for people who might think of their relationship between their body and confining social narratives as queer. This can feel like an isolating experience. Our wounded bodies need spaces to talk about struggles with nourishment/disordered eating, body image issues, dysphoria, racism, heterosexism, transphobia, xenophobia, substance use/abuse, chronic pain/disability, body changes in parenthood, intergenerational trauma, the medical/wellness/therapy industrial complex and its lack of inclusion of queer bodies and much more. Hopefully this podcast can illustrate the connections, and resonant pain points, that we have with one another. The Host   Asher Pandjiris Psychotherapist/ Podcaster/ Group Facilitator   Virtual Workshops available every month:  https://www.livinginthisqueerbody.com/virtual-group-workshop   SUPPORT https://www.patreon.com/livinginthisqueerbody      Music: Ethan Philbrick and Helen Messineo-Pandjiris    Audio Production: ganym3d3.com and https://talkbox.studio/  ---   Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/asher-pandjiris/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/asher-pandjiris/support 