All right. We have another very special guest on best our of their day. We have Eric Malzone. And ironically we met on your podcast. Yeah, that's right. Yeah full circle man, Uncle Circle full circle. So if you don't know Erik because you know, we have a lot of you know CrossFit Games athletes on here Eric actually. Did you compete at the question again? There's no no no. No, I was exactlyBut no man. Well, let me give you the best. I was trying to give a nice introduction to people you are podcast host yourself the Future Fitness so I highly recommend listeners check that out. But you know, the big thing that you do these days is your consultant and a business guy and I used you and your company in the past helped with our own you're eating website and design and honestly just advise you are one of the most How can I say this you just steady your steady and you don't let emotion get too much of the way and I'm the opposite. So when I need good advice, you are a good person to go to and I've I've said numerous box owners your way. And you know, I think you continue to help me grow. So I appreciate that. Yeah, I appreciate you man. And it's every time I get on a conversation with you. I enjoy it. And you know, I think it's you you asked me what I do and how to You know explain to people what is I do and I have a hard time doing because I'm just a Serial entrepreneur. I try a lot of different things and you know, every you talk to me six months later probably something may have failed and I've tried them something new or there's a new Evolution there of so, I guess what I can just say is people ask him a multipotentialite always like to have multiple things going on. So I have a lot of fingers with in the fitness industry innovating and trying new things. So that's kind of what I want to know. Yeah. You're like a more Focused version of me, I think. Really make that a topic of our discussion today. I get asked all the time about selling a box and it usually requires me to get on a phone call or answer a bunch of emails, but I figured what better way to you know, answer everyone's questions and by having a conversation and talking about it so I can direct them here going forward. Yeah, so I sold three Affiliates you sold one you sold what was originally CrossFit Pacific Coast, but then rebranded as Otis Fitness you want to when did you open that box? Yeah, so that business, you know my CrossFit background started I believe in late or like early 2008. I walked into Crystal Lanes gym in San Francisco, which was Elaine Fitness and people don't know who that is. That's Jacqueline's family member and I got hooked on it. You know, I saw this massive growth. I think it's time. I may have been cleaned number 30 by the time I left to go from my own. I was client one. 60 are there was 150 160 clients. I mean, so I saw this massive growth and I was like, wow I can I can do this right? And so I formulated the business. I was actually working in a corporate job at the time and I got a text message from a college teammate of mine Traver bone during happy hour and a Friday and he's like, hey you want to open a gym? What right and then I thought about it and one beer later. I texted him back and this is back when I was like texting was like 4 4 4 3 3 Yeah, I sound like yeah. Yeah, I do so we got on the horn week later and you know kind of fast forward the stories six months later. We had formed the business got the affiliate and I had all my Earthly belongings packed in a car driving from San Francisco to Santa Barbara, which was a town I've never been to nor did I know anybody to open a gym and live the dream right and it you know through many pitfalls and ups and downs, of course it it it was a successful GM and over that span which is about And a half years, you know, I rebranded it bought out of business partner gone through just about every trial and tribulation you can do with with a gym landlord issues. You name it, you know upgraded to a 5000 foot, you know facility after starting an 800 feet multiple times, but the choice to sell was, you know, more of a personal issue, you know, we wanted to you know, we had some some personal things happen in life. Over 2016 just like Bam Bam Bam Bam, which you just made me think and my wife and I think that hey, you know, let's all those things that we always talk about that we want to do you live in a mountain town. She want to learn how to ski and you know, a lot of things we want to travel see more places and the only thing holding us back was owning a gym and being anchored in that town in Santa Barbara is amazing place. Don't get me wrong beautiful community of people. I was so blessed to know everybody in the town, but I just knew it was time to You to move on and you know, ultimately when it comes to initiating change of any kind, you know, what you want to do and then you find the tiniest first step and you take it and then you see where that leads you and then you take the next one. Right? Go ahead. I think that's important to know that a lot of people think about selling a gym and it's not often or I should say. It's not always simply, you know, you get made this lucrative offer or you're having a Fallout with your business partner Jason might B you want some sort of life change. Yeah, and that's it. So the question then becomes for people and I think it's always different, you know, I sold three gyms for three different reasons and really three different outcomes. What was that? Like you had a partner? What did it become when you decided when you made that decision with your wife that you wanted to sell? Yeah, so when I came home and I told her when I am like hey, I think I'm ready. I'm ready to sell the gym. First of all, she was like don't mess with me don't Don't say that unless you're serious. I'm like no, I'm serious, you know, we talked about moving to a mountain town and living that lifestyle because we're extremely outdoorsy and every time we had the opportunity we are escaping from the beach to the mountains. And so that that was that was actually quite easy. I'm like, no I'm not kidding. I'm dead serious and I'm going to start start this thing and generally I takes me a long time to make decisions, but once I do their sentence known and I move forward and I think you know for people listening who are thinking well can it be that simple well, everything is simple but not always easy right and understand like sewing a gym if you ever bought a home or anything like that. I've been part of that process. Everything is laid out Simply but there's always something that happens right? Whether it's something in escrow unique. Oh man with more money or you know, something along the lines of that there's always kind of a surprise and you have to be ready for that surprise, but The biggest thing when I talked to Jim owners who want to sell their gym as you have to take the emotion out of it because we tend to get so attached to the community to the thing we built in the pride behind it and that you have to understand what what value really means to a buyer and depending on who the buyer is what role you play in the gym the value can shift significantly because it is very subjective. Right? And that's the thing about values. So, you know for me the first step was reaching out to people that trusted and new I reached out to my, you know, couple of my mentors at the time James Fitzgerald was one of them. I had a business coach at the time to Chris Cooper and people who are just other otherwise outside of Fitness great business people. I asked him. Hey, what does this process look like? So the first thing you have to do is come up with some kind of valuation. And then that was my step 1 my initial event occurs Cooper. I was on his podcast. I sold mine and that's why I still continue to get hit up. And I agree one piece of advice. I always give is you know, ultimately it's worth what someone's willing to pay. Yes, because that we we have so much emotion behind it and it's like just because you care about it. It's your baby doesn't mean it's worth a million dollars. Yeah. Well and let's let's give an example like a really good place to start evaluation is is take your net profit from the previous year multiply that times two and a half. Okay, that's a good place to start. Now. You have to look at the factors behind that of if it is truly owner-operated if you're coaching the classes if you're doing the programming if you're doing all these things what happens if you get pulled out of that business the business value greatly decreases. I had worked over, you know, an A2 half year span to build a business that I could walk away from at any point in this thing still runs, right? The only thing I did was Mark, Not many boxes these days are set up that way almost all our owner-operated and yeah, you could have 200 members but as soon as I pull you out of it, it falls apart. So, you know, I think one thing I tell people is like, hey, the the cost of Entry to a CrossFit affiliate is not very high. You're limited by whatever the rent will be but the equipment and whatnot 3040 thousand which is a lot of money but to start a business is Not right for me to want to buy your business there has to be a tremendous amount of value there or I'll just open my own. Yes, and that's I have been approached about buying other gyms in the area and they would come to me with some you know valuation that I can tell they just scribbled on a piece of paper with little thought and I was like, well, where did you get this number? Where did you get a hundred thousand and like well, this is that's you know, I talked to a consultant. That's what they sound like. Well first I didn't talk to anybody but you just came up with a number that you want and good. You for asking but you know fact matter is just like you said is I can easily just wait for you to go out of business potentially part and this sounds ruthless, but this is business, you know, I could go wait and just by your equipment, you know at 50 cents on the dollar or less and then rent another space and start take your spot in that area. And that's that's I say, you got to take the emotion out of it and realize what the situation is that you're actually in now if you are an owner operator, right? And you have a lot of passion for what you do and you can find somebody who shares that passion right who wants to step into your role then that's probably your best bet. Okay, because we're you can do is come up with some kind of equity share or a long-term payout plan unless they have cash, which maybe they don't right so it's very because if they did have kashyap really open their own gym, right, so it's very individualized on the case, but there's a lot Scenarios and if people actually want an email me I have a holy book on this or I could give it to you Jason that I wrote on all the different parameters in different examples and it was written by mostly written by a gentleman named John Hagel who I'd like to give respect you because actually passed away this year great guy been in the gym business for years and years and years and we laid out for different scenarios of what it is and we have a never really nice checklist of things you need to have in place before you go approach. You know potential buyers so I can give that to you Jason. If you want you can distribute it to people it's free, but that it's a really good asset on how to on how to look at each scenario from a buyer perspective. Right and then the seller perspective and then kind of the truth, right because there's three sides to every story he shed. See he said she said and then what really happened kind of semen in business sales. Yeah. Well definitely share that All the notes, I'll put your information but you will make that available to everybody because if whether I think it'd be a great read even if you're just thinking about opening an affiliate to be prepared, you know have a really successful friend outside of the fitness world and he always says if you're starting a business the goal should be to sell it. Yes. I think we forgot. You should always be working towards your business as a sellable asset because that just means it's healthy. Great. Yeah, great point and I think so many, you know just had Chris Cooper on and he has a new book out founder farmer Tinker thief and so many people are in that founder phase where it's like you basically bought yourself a job. and I think it's a lot of box owners would be. Real with themselves and take it take a look. It's like art. Could you make more money coaching for someone else and remove this headache from your life? Yeah. So what were some of the things you did well to create a sellable asset so box wonders listening and they think themselves this guy's right that listen to previous episode. They're making sense. What what are some tangible steps they can make to make their box not just more successful but sellable. This is going to sound a little out of left field. But right now go put a 4 week vacation on your calendar or weeks four weeks one month have right in a row at least put it on the calendar right? Maybe you don't have to take it or maybe you do maybe it's just a staycation. Maybe you go somewhere and you go like my wife and I and you go camping for in the outdoors for a long time. Right? But the point is you want to have something in there where you're like, okay, I gotta set up every single system. So this thing runs perfectly while I'm gone. I have to get the right staff have to communicate. I have to have the right procedures, you know, everything has to be systematized so that you are no longer the thing that's holding it back may doesn't have to be for weeks. You probably do two weeks and get just by just fine, but I want to impress upon people that you know, you should be able to step away from the business for a long period of time and then it's going to be and that's going to force you to look at all the different weak spots of your business and And address them quickly. Yeah, I've heard that from some of the best coaches out there. I know Ben Bergeron talks about it. If you can't take a few can't take a one week vacation. You mean I love the idea of a four-week one because that are really sets you up. You can get by for a week the gym will run but you know in four weeks memberships are coming due again, you know bills are bills are due new members are going to come in where you have to sell them on buying a membership. Yeah, I think just Having that on there. I think that's a great idea and actually maybe even two weeks and pay for the vacation. So you're going yeah, you don't want to lose that deposit you put down and whether it's camping or just going somewhere that think that's a great idea. So put that on the schedule. What else? Get your numbers together. I think that's a big thing. I mean if you if you don't have if you haven't been in business for like three years and you may have a problem selling the business says it is but through three years of pll's airtight numbers a really solid lease. That's a big part of it is like what is the status of your lease? That's a big red flag. If it's not secure for at least two years at the current rate a lot of buyers. As if they're Savvy will see that as a huge red flag and want that address that actually came back to me in my situation when I sold and almost blew the whole thing up because I didn't realize that I had acquired another space and that the least States had actually shifted so that when I was about to sell and this is, you know landlords in Santa Barbara, California are the worst, you know, they're like, oh yeah. Oh congratulations. That's great. I'm excited for you. So that other spot that you took over. Yeah, we're going to double that. What right and luckily I had a good attorney, right? We found a way to get over that hurdle and it went through well, but that almost blew the whole thing up. And that's the importance of getting a good lease and making sure that you know, ultimately if you can buy if you can buy the property that's best but making sure that your lease is airtight. You have all your documentation in place for profit and loss for three years. There's no questions about that and I would also make sure that if it's possible I don't accrue debt on the business, right because I had debt like I had to buy out my business partner in 2016 Traver he was moving on in life and I took on the debt from a personal standpoint through a bank so that I knew if I want to sell some day want to be attached to the business, right? So that's another thing because that's going to happen. Right but just make sure there's a way that the debt is not The business when you leave so those are really three tangible pieces of advice. I have your numbers, you know, two or three years of your PLS check out your lease because I've seen I've seen sales fall through for that same reason. This is even if it's like, hey, this is your last year on the lease now my fear is well, if I come in in the landlord doesn't want to re-sign me. You know, what have you sold me, you know, and then and then lastly not I've debt. Easier said than done but you have someone's looking from a buying perspective. They're buying your business. And then also potentially taking over your debt. Yeah, you just you don't want the debt permanently attached to the business like, you know, maybe if it's in the business name, but it's under written for you, you know, something something like that and I think number one through all of this is get a great business attorney, you know, or a solid one. Yeah it there our Lee's can be shocking right? You know, I think through the whole process I probably Had had to spend about $6,000 my business attorney and it was they did a great job and at the end the day I would I would have paid double, you know to get that sale done because they handled things extremely well because yeah, especially once you start getting legal letters from a landlord or something like that. There's nothing more horrifying than getting a threatening legal letter and then you start to realize oh, that's just the way they talk right. It's just the way it tourneys talk. They're always threatening. It's true though and even in the My book best out of their day. I'm writing all about this advice and these lessons but I'm like, okay you guys want something tangible. I always say get a good accountant, but it you know, an attorney's right there, you know, what a good accountant a good attorney or invaluable because What you don't spend their will come back to bite you in the ass. Yes, so thousand times. Well, let's let's take a step back. What are even if I wasn't going to sell but I just am running a box. What are the three most common mistakes? You've seen you Mentor a lot of people in all of businesses, but let's make it specific towards CrossFit. What are three of the most common mistakes? You've seen inbox ownership? I think number one is paying attention to the wrong metrics, right? It's very easy to get wound up in and I don't know if it's much of his an issue anymore because there are a lot of good business mentors who have come about within the industry now, but when I started, you know antipa tronic was and and John Birch were like the first business coaches within within CrossFit remember the biz, do you remember that? Oh, yeah. I know the dance. Yeah, pretty well. I'm still glad he's with Andi, and I talked to John everyone small to great great guys. Um, but back then it was always about like well, how many members do you have? Right. How big is your gym, right these are all vanity metrics, but now we're starting to see like, you know in this is real business is making its way into CrossFit has four years. Now as you know, well, what's the most important metric? Well, number one, what's your profit? Right and a lot of people don't know where your profit is what your attention right? What's your average client value, you know, so knowing those numbers and really paying attention and focusing on the metrics that matter to you and your sanity and your bottom line. That's that's the biggest thing number two is not taking time to create the systems and Here's the thing is it takes time. Let's take the time to make the metrics. So you got to start making time for yourself where you're not just doing, you know, the operations of a gym. So, you know the business owners, I work with our gym owners. The first thing we start doing is identifying. Okay at what point are you actually going to do the work that I'm assigning you right and they're like well and it's tough because you know, one thing that will frustrate a business Mentor is going week to week talking about the same topic when the homework gets done. So the first thing I have to do is actually make the time and you know, whatever that is if it's just an hour on Monday morning to start figuring out. Okay, how can I start handing things off? What are the what are the things actually take place in my GM to keep it running every day from you know, obviously onboarding new clients, you know programming the workouts coaching classes those are obvious, but what about the little things like who goes and gets the toilet paper when they're out right who you know who's cleaning? You know who's mopping the floors she was doing these little things. You don't necessarily think about until your actual business owner. So listing out those things and starting to take those lowest lowest priority task for the lowest skill task concerning handles off immediately and it's kind of like you've heard the debt snowball now explain that so if you have a massive amount of debt, okay, so you have like, you know a mortgage and you have a car payment you have multiple credit card bills and you to have a bunch of stuff you got to pay. Every month you take whatever the smallest balance is and the smallest payment you pay that off first, right? Then you take that money that you're paying towards that you put it towards the next one. Right the one that's up to scale. So the highest one eventually you get to the mortgage but you keep using that money and you keep pinching and then you get the whole thing snowballs until eventually you're starting to pay off more debt quicker and faster and the same thing goes with your time in the gym in the things that you're doing take the smallest task right there. Your time repetitive things right and you have to this takes awareness to hand that off to somebody else hire an ad man for ten dollars an hour a virtual assistant to do some email stuff. Whatever it is to take your time. Now, you take that extra time. Now you developing systems that will take over things that are taking up, you know, a significant amount of time and it keeps going until eventually you're doing the things that a business owner should be doing which is managing developing staff figure out new ways to Market new opening up new revenue streams. And things like that, so that would be number two. Well the funny before you go on and number three a couple things you said, you know from a business perspective business coaching. It's frustrating. It's no different than any coaching. Right? So if you're listening you don't want to be that athlete if you will, it doesn't do what you're telling them and then getting frustrated you're not getting the results you want. Yeah, so and it's out of love right like you want to see these people progressed and it's hard to let go of Things right? Sometimes people like being busy because it helps them feel productive. But you know, if you're doing you're like, well, I like being you know, I like being the business owner. Who's the Hustler right? He's working 60 hours a week because you know, I'm going to make it happen and we are just take a step back Gary Vee made that sexy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's a whole nother topic but I guarantee Gary Vee doesn't change the toilet paper. Yeah, I agree right so So I think taking those tasks and don't be afraid to start hiring help and you know, it can be as simple as like, hey find an intern out of college, right who will trade you for a membership and she'll do or he'll do four hours of work every week. As one of the first things I did it mean I had free coaches for years before I realized okay. I need to pay these people and definitely something to look at you every box has that person that goes to school or that struggles to Membership that you can certainly create a relationship with that you're something else you mentioned in that systems area is something you guys preach to me for a long time and that's eliminate automate delegate really and that's a lot of what you're saying and I agree with you like make a list of everything you have to do from, you know coaching a class to buying toilet paper what can be eliminated what can be automated and what could be delegated and don't don't. You know don't delegate what can be eliminated. Yes. So what what's number three, you know, I think for a broad perspective and there's so many things it's to put them into 3 is tough but I would think really understanding who you're having a Clear Vision of who your ideal client is what they want and then creating the experience around that person you can't and you can and on a local now. I'm in the online space right? You have to have a very specific Niche when you're in the online space and the brick-and-mortar. Are you can you can afford to be a little broader right and who you serve but you can't serve everybody right? I mean if you're if you're and I know this from personal experience, you can't be the gym that handles the 35 to 55 year-old busy, you know affluent, you know kids mortgage, right? That's one specific demographic or Avatar and then you can also serve of the CrossFit athlete right? That's a whole nother ball right that they're just completely different and I think the people that I see most who are most successful have taken time to figure out who they like to work with right who tend to be attracted to their style of coaching and business and it takes a little time to figure that out but then fully committing to that right so creating a whole user experience. So there's a great example of a gentleman sent across the gym, but he's at a Sacramento California seems Robert Lee. And he has completely built his business and very successful gym business around the 55 and over. Right. That's all he serves. That's who we serve and everything from how we markets right? Like he's not doing Instagram ads for 55 and over right is doing a little bit of Facebook and he's doing door hangers, right? Because that's the marketing that works down to how he assesses people and how they're on-ramp happens. It's completely different right and then the whole Serena what happens he has a very fluent market right people over the 55 can afford small group training. He has he isn't he does very little marketing. He does referral generation not lead generation because they're so happy that they're referring people because they know exactly who fits into their tribe, right? And then it just becomes easier doesn't have to have multiple lines of programming right? It's just this one thing so I think finding out who your ideal client is who your target market is include the committing to it. The scary part. Well, I think that's a valid point because you know granted this is geared primarily towards crossfitters and if a box owner is listening they're going to say I don't have an ideal client because anybody could do cross fit which is true, but you still have to be able to afford it. Right? You also have to most likely live in a certain radius to the gym, you know, you have to be able to attend the class times that we have. So there are some parameters you should be thinking about you may be trying to get everybody then realize. Okay, I turns out most college kids can't afford our rate in Naples Florida or wherever you live. So you need to think about that demographic not just you know age group word. And again, if you're trying to be that box that sends a team to the games which is clearly changed these days, you know, you you're not trying to be the box that might get a seven year old woman to come into class. Yeah. Well, you know back when I started in back when you started just before In CrossFit was a differentiator all yeah, I mean in the book I talk about like for the first two years, it was former athletes or people that just want to change at the gym. It wasn't middle-aged men and women coming in because they couldn't you know, quote-unquote couldn't do CrossFit. Yeah. Yeah, and now it's like well by the time I sold there was five CrossFit Affiliates within three square miles, right? He granted units and a barbell little different than them. But yeah, we're like Starbucks these days. Yeah, it's different but the same and maybe that was you know, California is just a very they're kind of on The Cutting Edge of anything fitness-related. So maybe you know, the trans trickled back through, you know, more of Middle America over the three-year span, but the point is is like I that was a differentiator now if you don't have a differentiated in the market, what's what It's me, if I see if I don't know anything about CrossFit like I want to try this CrossFit thing, right and there's three other gyms that I can go to what separates you from them. And what makes you a known commodity. They don't know. They don't condone the people that the average people they don't know that crossfit's not, you know, a franchise right? They don't know that it's not one big chain. So how do you differentiate and that's usually by finding a you know, one two three very specific avatars and serving them extremely. Well, you know, what else happens at that point to you can charge more Yeah, I think you know when you get the right Avatar and they realized that they will pick up on the fact that you are the box for them. They'll be willing to pay more especially if your avatar happens to be, you know, a higher socio-economic level which in reality most most crossfitters are you know, I don't like to think that it's a dispensable because I think everyone needs to focus on their health and fitness but hundred and fifty dollars on average a month is it is expensive compared to its standard Jim rate, which I've said over and over that's our competition your Bop, you know your globo gyms that have bumper plates. That's who you're competing against these days. So well, I would say that $150 is not that expensive and I think that's you know, I think it's a Maya money mindset that seems to be pervasive within the CrossFit Community as well, which I know a lot of business coaches were in the realm are always trying to change is like by the time Granted we can say I was in Santa Barbara. It's a very affluent area by the time I sold my unlimited 265 right per month and I felt very confident asking for that. So I think if there's a number for that we can talk about is changing your money mindset and working very hard around that and if you don't know what that means and just let one of money mindset is and I think one of the best ones that I know of is you read Jensen serials books. Yeah, you are badass of making money that One. Yeah, it's great. You know really start to shift understand that your beliefs right? Because the chances are if you're a gym owner a lot of your clients probably make more money than you. Okay. Just going to I'm going to be honest. No, I think we know and I've heard people say you're probably about to say it's like we try to charge People based on what we can afford now, but they can afford. Yeah exactly and I would take a look like, you know money is not dirty thing, right? It's okay to make money and serve a population. You don't have to be a martyr, right? You don't have to have a second job to do this. So reverse engineer how much money do you want to make that empowers you to be the best version of yourself? Right? And that means you know doesn't mean you have to take it on you'll have to drive a Jag right? You don't have to be a rich asshole. Can I swear I just did my guess is this where anymore? Okay good. But if it allows you to provide a better service and now As you to if you make more money to you know, deliver better service be a better part of your community, then you should have that. So take a number that you want to make reverse-engineer it right through how much you need to be charging per client and don't be scared to ask for it. You know because once you start doing that you're going to start a track that you what you're doing is you're going to automatically figure out what kind of value do I need to deliver to ask for a price like that and you'll do it. You'll create it right and then you'll start to attract the people. That you want because you've created the value that they're looking for and then you have a business that you know, eventually you can probably sell. That's huge. I mean, I think so many again. It's a really any business but specifically in CrossFit. It's like we get into it because we love it. We're good at it. We open right? It's like the e-myth, you know, we talk it's you are good at your craft. So you think you should open a business and we don't think about any of those things. You just said, I know I didn't I was very lucky in that. I got into CrossFit of the right time did things the right way and grew to this huge. Huge sale, but for a lot of people it's like oh, we don't think about all these things. We were limited by our financial beliefs. I know I was I was like, I can't charge $100 a month. I wouldn't be able to afford that people kept paying it. I remember having this conversation with one of my members when we were we went from like 100 to 125 in the members. Like what do you want to lose all your members? And this was after I was like a little more confident and I was like will see everyone paid. Yeah, you know and you know, maybe Pat myself a little bit on the back I was doing things well, so they were like, I don't want to give that up and I think a lot of boxers need to realize that if you know talked about increasing rates with Chris Cooper last week, but I think don't be afraid to change that mindset. I love those Jensen share of books both ever met her new one of you read the new one yet. No. No, I didn't know she had a new one. Yeah, it's really it's powerful because here's the thing and it's a lot of Ian Wright perceived value if I have two pens. Okay. Let's just say like, I don't know if people are watching video, but I have two pans here. There are obviously different but if they are the same pens same exact hands me the same exact place by the same exact Factory, right? And when it costs 99 Cents, the other one costs $4.00 you're going like, whoa, what's up with that? $4 one. I must be a nice pen must be something to it. Right? I'm interested in that one. I want to try that one, right? That's the way we work and you know if you're thinking well My market won't allow for it or you know people here won't pay for that. Well, then figure out ways increase the value, right if you're not confident in it, how do you increase value? And that's that's the thing if you're constantly looking for ways to increase value you'll be able to consistently raise your rates to meet the demand on that value and you just have to be confident in it and it's not You're like Eric I hear you, but it's hard it. Well it is but it isn't right. It's your mental outlook on how the whole thing is going down. If you don't think that you're delivering the value to your clients that you you should be then ask her clients. That's a I want to stop there for a second. That's a great piece of advice that people don't do I always whenever I talk to boxes and I tell them all the time like take out your best clients for coffee Alton and find out like we think about the people that leave talk to the ones that stay and ask why they stay because one of the worst things you can do is do things well and not know it and not and not know to try to continue to do it. Yeah. That was a regular. Thing I took my clients out to coffee or lunch all the time. You know what I would always joke, but it's not a joke because it's true. I sold more products or Services over coffee. Then I did through any Facebook ad, you know $3 for $30. And if you do it, here's the thing as create that that crazy products or that crazy service, right? I had $1000 private training nutrition package, right? So I would go have coffee with my clients. At the end in a very nice way, I'd be like, hey want to get your thoughts on this, you know, I'm thinking about putting together this this personal training nutrition package. And you know, this this this a cost $1000. What do you think Michael? I think it's great. Do you know anybody who'd be interested in that? Yeah. I want to get my husband in this. Yeah. You need to lose 10 pounds cool. Okay, great. And if that happened a lot, yeah because you're building Rapport and then you start to understand like because you get to ask questions of people and a lot of times you take them out to that coffee scenario, and they're going to be they're not going to give you the hard truth because they probably like you right but you will start to understand where if you're asking the questions, right which is a whole another podcast right where the value is that they see and how you're delivering that value to them and how you can take that knowledge and really put the gas on the pedal and and blow the doors off of the value and you know working with you in the past. You guys taught me to valuable lessons. It was even to this day when I would do something new with say owner eating or another company. I would still continue to undervalue myself and you guys would always give me charge more charge more and it every single time worked out and then the second thing which you've kind of I don't think you realize you touched upon was like the Cadillac that was what you were talking about with the pens and somewhat, you know, maybe you have that Cadillac product or membership at your box and it's a thousand dollars like Eric just said and not everybody does it but they see that they're like, okay. Well, I'll take the unlimited membership still $200 a month. But you know by having that super high ticket item, they then default to the medium one versus going to the lowest one all the time. Yeah, like 90% of the time right and that that undervaluing thing is something that's so Universal. I do it to myself all the time, you know, you know Jeremy oh and I have this great service where we create online accredited certifications for people and we're just starting to realize like how much value that is really there and how much we've been undervaluing a service because we actually create you know, quarter million dollar revenue streams for people and so I think what it takes Jason is outside perspective somebody who can look at your situation and say no you should charge more or maybe you should shift the way you do this, you know, and that's that's really that's the value of a mentor. Is mostly outside perspective, and we could probably have a no another podcast on that, but Yugi mentioned Kate so which we should kind of touch on that real quick. You guys build sort of certificate courses certifications for people you guys built the owner eating certificate course, so if you've taken our course, or you want to you can take it online you get CrossFit CEUs for your level 3 and level 4 Prudential you guys do that. So maybe you want to do a fitness one, or maybe you want to do one on The trumpet right? You can do that. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great way. I mean, what are the way I see the future of education and certainly be coming online. And if you want to get out ahead of things is create if you have a very specific area of knowledge, right something that like Jason does right and when you're eating nutrition something he's done you can take you know, a certification online certification like Jason's and walk out of with everything you need to actually start an online business and that's that's The type of certifications and accreditation that we look for for and partners. We do things like that and it's an amazing opportunity and you know, you know for someone like you Jason you're obviously an author but you know getting your knowledge out there and that type of in that online space is a whole nother, you know leg to your business, which is really powerful too. Well, and I agree with you on kind of the direction the world is going, you know, I talked about going to college and you know master's degrees and all that stuff. I mean it's online these days you whether it's ours or you know see Seth Godin has like his all-nba. There's so many cool things out there. And for a lot of them are right like our goal with our program as you take it and you have a new business just from learning from us. So it's really really cool. But you could reach out to Eric. If you have an interest in that, you know, all of what we have discussed is important, but the topic of the show is best our of their day so you can do all these things were saying but at the end of the day if You're not providing the best our probably doesn't matter. What were some of your tips. I what did you do as a coach to cultivate that at your box? How did you provide the best hour of your members day man? That's it. That was the fun. Right? I mean and when you get all the business things aside the marketing the system's when you get to coach you get on the floor. I think the biggest thing is make sure you bring the best of you with you. Leave all the other shit behind, you know, it was it was really easy to you know, maybe you just read an email right before you get on the floor. Right? And you're like, oh man, I got a cancellation or something like that leave that behind go enjoy it but yourself at a high level of energy and resonate with your clients and make sure that you know, not only are you giving to them right in the form of the energy and the excitement and the experience but allow yourself to take it back in right? That's part of the exchange of energy that goes on in the 60-minute class, you know, allow them to elevate you write share things with them, you know, don't be a downer but allow yourself to take that energy back because it's just going to completely circle around in the room. And I think that's that's a biggest thing is leave all the other shit behind. When you're out there coaching be present, right? Look at people and understand that you are the best our of their day. And if you believe that you will resonate that throughout the class and it's you should have a ton of fun doing it. So it's just a state of mind. I think that's the biggest thing is we can get a little tactics like, okay what happens when someone walks in the class? Of course, they need to be greeted right? You ask them the question you do the name. Hey, let's go go around and say hey, what's your give me your first name your favorite tie. Type of food, right and you know that starts conversations and all that and you can play games from warm up all our great tactics, but the biggest thing is be present because that's the thing that people feel the most. That's solid advice be present and I think this day and age I had a conversation with Bill and he's also on the podcast and we talked about how hard that is in today's day and age with the phone put your phone down. Don't bring it into the classroom and be present with your members. Yeah. I some questions that I think you're going to give some great answers. I'm excited for these questions one. What book would you recommend these listeners read? And I've read a lot of books. I you know what? I know what book you're going to recommend. I want to wait. I'm not a bias you but I'm gonna I'll tell you I'll be honest but you've wrecked out of anyone you've probably recommended the most books that I've actually read. So I want to hear what you're going to submit. I know what you're going to say. Well, I read a lot. I do think that you can be mentored by anybody in the world for almost free right if you just pick up the red book, so Can I do too because it's hard for me. I read a lot of books in 2018. I always pick one or two that I reread throughout the next year. And this year's books are two number one is essentialism, which is probably the one that you're thinking about. No, I have another one but essentialism is when you recommend it it was account you have it was my favorite of 2018 as well. Yeah, excellent. Excellent book it really for me, especially because I accept describe myself as a multipotentialite. I really need to rein myself in sometimes. Number two is oh God outwitting the devil. So if you guys know this Napoleon Hill if you know him so he obviously thinking Grow Rich, right? That was his probably the first self-help development book back in like the 1930s. I think there is this he wrote a second book. Right and it didn't actually get published until I think the last decade and because the family held onto the rights. Anyway, it's this really incredible thing where he just makes up an entire conversation that he has with the devil and how to essentially overcome all the things that we deal with as humans that block has From Success the devil is essentially representative of our own Egos and how our society is put mechanisms in to break us down. You're not allow us to reach our full potential so that one if you're ready and I will get the audio book is it'll blow your mind, right? So I would hang the devil and essentialism by Greg McKeown. Well, I will have that one but I am surprised you didn't mention the Alchemists. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well God, I feel like that's just basic reading right isn't that just something that people should read all the time? It's not that it's amazing. That book was my I didn't read a lot until my midterm and so my late twenties and A girlfriend of mine on time. She's like you should read. I was like, I don't want to read she's like, oh no, you should read read this book and I read it and that what got me it I realized that there was more to reading than the stuff I had to read in school. And that was that was the Alchemists so that one if you're like, I don't really like to read right go read The Alchemist that's probably been the most commonly recommended book so far from our guests rightfully. So, all right, Eric where can people reach you for all things. I know you have your new company Elite Jim. Cider, so someone wants to to learn more from you. What can they do? Yeah, so at least from insiders is a slack community of gym owners where you can just go and there's an application for it. It doesn't cost anything, but you can find me there certified course creation.com. It's probably one of the best places to find me right now. And then I'm all over I'm on Facebook and Linkedin quite often so you can find me there really easily last names Malzone Mal zo NE, it's like a calzone with an M. It'll Notes, don't worry though. There has spell your name. And then of course on your own podcast the future of Fitness. Yep. I have the future of fitness and I have the fitness Blitz radio as well done about 500 interviews with people in the fitness industry over the last year and a half. So there's a tremendous amount of insights and knowledge and probably some of the people listening have been on one of the shows. So am I still the most downloaded episode on the fitness Blitz radio? I do believe you are. Yeah. I will take that to my grave. I'm excited Eric we could talk for hours. But I appreciate your time. Thank you so much. I'm about to go download outwitting the devil and I appreciate it. Thanks for coming on. Yeah, this is a lot of fun man. Keep up the great work shoe. Thanks for listening to best our of their day. If you haven't heard about anchor it's the easiest way to make a podcast. Let me explain. First of all, it's free. How cool is that? There's a creation tool that allows you to record and edit your podcast right from your phone or computer. So it becomes super simple some of these episodes with Fern or Todd or myself chatting with one another we've done right within the app. If itself anchor will make it easy to distribute your podcast to all platforms Spotify apple and many more and you can make money from your podcast with no minimum listenership. It's everything you need to make an awesome podcast in one place. 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On today's podcast, Ackerman sits down with Eric Malzone, who's been involved in fitness for over 20 years. Originally, a CrossFit affiliate owner Eric now runs a consultant company that Ackerman personally used to help with setting up Own Your Eating. Eric and Ackerman first met on one of Eric's podcasts, Fitness Blitz Radio,  where Eric interviewed him about Owning Your Eating. Fun fact it's still Fitness Blitz Radio most listened to episode even two years on. Eric owned his affiliate for about eight and a half years before ultimately selling. During the episode, Eric describes how he sold his box successfully, with tangible advice to help you do the same. Even if you're not looking to sell this advice is invaluable, it will highlight the pitfalls within your business that are not allowing you to make a profit or be able to take a step back and everything not fall apart. Check out the extra content about this episode on besthouroftheirday.com Rate/subscribe in Apple Podcasts! Find us on Instagram: @besthouroftheirday + @thejasonackerman Check out our website - besthouroftheirday.com - to learn more about our private coaches development group. 