All I know is because of the way this offense is played and and the way they've executed if they close it off with a win and in this National Championship, I'll be 80 year olds 80 years old somewhere sitting hopefully fishing somewhere and I'll be someone I ask me. What's the best team you saw and maybe it's because it's right now, I mean, I think back to Matt Leinart and USC I think events young Tim Tebow had some teams most recently, you know to ahead a great team a few years ago. Go there have been great teams, but this team and I think it's because of the offense, you know, the defense had to find its way late in the year, but this offense and if they go out and put an exclamation point with a 42 Point effort, I think people whether you're an LSU fan or just a college football fan. Yeah. I think you'll look back at 2019 is one of the great runs that we've ever witnessed. If I decide to fight all the way, hey everybody, welcome to another edition of a fine podcast the official podcast of LSU football as always. I'm Cody Worsham digital media reporter for LSU Athletics and very excited about today's show head to sit down with two legends two icons of the broadcasting industry Kirk Herbstreit to talk a little football little X's and O's and Some own field stuff with LSU Clemson, and then right after that set down with Tom Rinaldi to talk storylines and storytelling and I'll get a little off football for a second but get back on football and talk about Coach. Oh and this team and Clyde over to you later and some stories that he's got an eye on going into the championship game. So excited about this episode much less of this of me talking into a microphone much more of me listening to people who actually know what they're talking about talk into a microphone. So really excited about Out those conversations and I'm just gonna go ahead and get straight to them before we do a little housekeeping, please if you haven't yet give us a rating give us a subscription. Give us a review send it to a friend email Facebook Twitter or whatever anything you could do helps get all the lessons if you guys last episode it was it was a lot of me talking into a microphone, but it was kind of an in-depth X's and O's dive on LSU Oklahoma and clubs in Ohio State and what I learned from those games and how that might apply into the Of game one last final notes. I hope to have another episode before the LSU Clemson game working to get Jacob Hester on to do our routine, which is been to preview these games right before so hoping to do that Saturday and then hoping to have one more episode as well trying to give you all the hey fine podcast that you can handle this week. It's a big week trying to take advantage of that and trying to keep you engaged and entertained and informed and listening. So I thank you so much for all the listening you've done so far. Are all the feedback has been wonderful all the messages. You send one Facebook and Twitter. Even the ones that don't respond to. I greatly appreciate they they keep me going and they keep me excited. So without further Ado, let's go ahead and we'll start with Kirk Herbstreit and then we'll throw it to Tom Rinaldi can't think those guys enough for sitting down with me great conversations a little more football with Kirk little more storytelling and narrative with Tom, but I think it's kind of two sides of the same coin and two different looks at this game, which is really exciting. So without further Ado here are Kirk Herbstreit and Tom and All right. It's my pleasure to be joined by ESPN college football analyst Kirk Herbstreit Kirk. You just wrapped up a long conversation with Joe burrow, but I really insightful when just I was kind of there is a fly on the wall. It was really fun to watch you guys talk football and kind of during one of the breaks you were just talking about his his football IQ and where he is mentally, so I want to start the interview there. Let's start with Burro, because I want to I want to get your Insight on the game and LSU Clemson, but since you just did something with Joe, yeah, I want to talk about him yesterday. You were on a conference call. I think you talked about he's maybe the best quarterback you've seen at this level executing in 30 years. Now that you've talked to him. What did you learn from that conversation with him just now. Well you were in there you you probably heard some of the same stuff that that I was hearing as far as and I'd love this game and I am one of these nerds that when everybody's at their job I'm watching. Umm, I just love it. I'm a quarterback myself. So I still as an analyst study film and and love that aspect of it and I love studying quarterbacks and I've never sat down with a guy who's more insightful and more prepared for a defense and what he's facing every week and more just in tune. It's he's almost like it. Let's just put it this way if he were on that Show with Jon Gruden back in the day. Yeah, and if I match up our Green Room Girls Camp think you can't win. Have a quarterback in yeah, and most of these college quarterbacks. I'm not talking about Andrew Luck is Indianapolis Colts. I'm talking about Andrew Luck coming out of Stanford or you name it Peyton Manning and they sit down with with a guy. That's a proven head coach like like Jon Gruden drunk ruins firing out questions. What do you happen to have covered three what I'm doing safety comes down. What you doing with this? What about the protection there? They're showing Mike dog Blitz what and there's nothing you can ask Joe burrow. He's not going to have an answer. Yeah, and it just it's just not common. And the reason that's important is he's running an NFL system and it allows him to execute at a speed and a level of consistency that just we I personally studying this game never have seen. So I just I love it. I'm appreciative of it and I love sitting down talking to him and hearing more about his thoughts about protections and blitzes and all the stuff that kind of goes into it. You were there for the Texas game and that was kind of Introduction nationally, we had glimpses of it here like, you know, I was fortunate to see some fall scrimmages and I was like, okay, I think this offense might be a little different. But yeah, it's hard to balance. Like how good is the Defense Forces? How good is the offense that sort of thing but you were there for the Texas game and I remember after that game you came out and you're like look everyone pay attention to LSU. Did you first see it getting to this level where I mean? We knew that night. Okay, they're going to be something different on offense. It's not going to be i-formation power, you know handed off toss dive on the first play of every game but did You first see this level where he just won the Heisman by the widest margin and history. I mean did you see this often is getting to this level what I saw when I left that stadium that night and I told a lot of my friends was when's that Alabama game was in November, whatever 7-9 whatever. Remember November 9th him and Tua that not this was early September. Yeah him and Tula like, can we get there now? Like that's what that's what I remember thinking because I thought this is different man. This is not LSU. This is not Defense and ball control and I formation this is a totally different thing and like you said third and 17 almost any offense. Let alone LSU's running the ball making Texas use timeouts. That was the thing that left an impression on me was their kind of their the approach from kocho all the way down like we're here to win and they did it against Florida late in the game. They're here to win. They threw a touchdown late to class. I think was quite Edwards earlier. I thought one Jamar it maybe tomorrow. Come on Chase on it on a wheel. So it just made me feel early in the year that this was possible not in no-till get hurt. Yeah at the but I thought it'd be a to Alabama LSU who wins that game probably ends up going to the national title and probably ends up winning the Heisman Trophy. I felt that confident early in the year after the Texas game. So one of the things that y'all just did was watch film and one of the plays you watch was a touchdown against Oklahoma or thaad Moss goes up the seam and it was funny because Joe Joe. Wrote down that play really. Well, he talked about how much they worked on it and stuff. You could tell it meant a lot to me and he said it was my favorite play of the year. You think about all the great plays he had for sure. Well, he got real excited about that one. Didn't he for sure and so just by coincidence three or four days ago is talking to that asked him about the same play and he gave me one of the best just football answers ever. Just what his read was, you know, how he knew when that defensive end hit him. He had to get vertical all that kind of stuff. You've produced a lot this year the caches in yards when you caught that that ball in the last game you see open field. Front of you, what's going through your mind when you get in the end zone? Well, it was the same play that we're and Ole Miss and I fumbled on so when I could so when I ran the route, I think we called it. We called it previously in in the game. But instead of having me attached they detach me so I can get a cleaner release. So when I caught the ball, so first off it was get a release on the DN just keep my feet almost fell keep my feet and I cut the ball. I was worried about the corner. I don't want it out in what the corner to hit me once I caught the ball. Just trying to give her two. We'll go and once I realized the corner came down the Jamar and that safety was rotating to the he was opening up to Jet side which Jets had four touchdowns. So once I caught it, it was like ma'am. This is myself, but I've been all year just for are getting many yards I can and as I was watching you and Joe talked it made me realize like this isn't just an offense with a genius at quarterback. They're smart guys all over the football field how much can that with a fad having that intelligence but the receivers able to make the Reeds how much can that unlocked off and so much. Is that a reason why LS use often? It's has expressed its everything and I think you bring up a great point the fact you're talking to that about it and he's breaking it down in the same manner of depth that the quarterback is like I think all of us as fans sometimes we watch and we see touchdowns and we think the quarterback throw a nice pass 60-yard touchdown. That's awesome. Yeah. I don't unless you privy to what you and I are and you get a chance to hear these guys talk. It's like sitting and I was kidding about like sitting in a math class and there's a professor. At the board and he's not teaching arithmetic. He's teaching calculus. It really is at that level of depth and knowledge of well that I noticed that the Sam linebacker he was he was leaning a little bit to the outside pre-snap and I saw the safety all these things are happening is you just see Joe routinely looking, you know calling the Cadence out. He's recognizing the safeties leaning here the corners over here. Oh look at the Mike linebacker, all these things are indicators. For him the of what he and sad and Jamar and Justin and Clyde and all these guys what they're seeing is eventually going to tell them because they all have to be on the same page because you adjust your route based on the coverage that they're in and so all these things happen in the blink of an eye and they for LSU they always seem to be on the same page seeing the same thing. So that is Steven swinger. It's Joe Brady, it's Joe burrow and it's the receivers and the tight ends and running backs everybody buying in. To this system which allows them to execute a level. I don't think we've ever seen in college football. I'm going to ask you a question. That's not a fair question. It's a question that 14 defensive coordinators. Haven't been able to answer yet. How do you stop this? LSU offense? Is there what would you do? Like, if you're a defensive coordinator, would you take the Auburn approach and throw something different out there? Would you stick with what you do best and and try to limit though the talked to him last night Kevin Steele the defense coordinator from Auburn said all I know is you better change up your calls. On every play he goes in baseball. There's a batter and you better throw him fastball curveball same at-bat fastball curveball knuckleball slider changeup, he goes if you go fastball slider fastball you're dead. Like if Joe and those receivers know what you're in it's over. Yeah, and so think about that as a defensive coordinator, you know, that's really hard to do. And so you got to respect Brent venables. He's one of the top defensive coaches in the country. He had 15 days to get ready. He's To have a plethora of things that he's not shown on film because he knows for 15 days Joe Brady Steven swinger, Joe Borough are studying every move that he's made so he's got to come in with a completely different look and if he does what he's always done all year. It'll be like shooting fish in a barrel. And so that's why I think what do you do? You got to dial up pressure. You can't play man-to-man unless you have confidence that your guys can stay and stay with those receivers because if you don't get home, you're going to give up. Touchdown so I think you'll see a mixed bag. All I know is you better disguise and you better change it up. Otherwise Joe's going to pick you up are so the flip side of that text is game was LSU's defense did not look very good in that game and they've come a long way since then the last three games have kind of crunched the numbers Pastor efficiency Defense. Number one in the country would be if you extrapolate it for the rest of the season Rush defense top three in the country extrapolated to their season small sample size, but we've seen against good teams, Oklahoma, Georgia, Texas A&M good football teams. This defense has played. Well, where have you seen them change wherever they improved from that Texas game where they could get a stop in the second half to the last three games where they're playing really really? Well. I think they're more aggressive at the line of scrimmage. You know, I think early in the year if you go back and watch them had some injuries we were talking before we came on the air and guy like Todd Harris that they lose and it affected their ability to cover in the slot and I think you know, they were fine a corner because he had Fulton on one side and Stingley on the other but I think we're teams really are able to attack them was in the middle and I think they're still trying to figure out Linebacker they put grant who's banged up in a position of have to cover and he's better at blitzing and playing center field. So I think now because of the development of some of the other guys like clot and Maurice Hampton, it's allowed them to free up some of these players and I think they're healthy so schematically I think they're attacking more Chase on is able to get up and get into the backfield get some one-on-one opportunities in past Pro, which he didn't have used sometimes drop it in coverage now, he's added back into attack mode and getting after the quarter. Back, I think the other thing is I think that this defense got a little lazy with a new offense that was scorned 40 or 50 a game. I think they lost their Edge and I think it took the performance against Ole Miss if you go back and remember they played Ole Miss didn't go well the quarterback Plumlee was running all over the place. They gave up a lot of big plays and the committee the next week came out and said, we're flipping Ohio State over 1 LSU's just not a complete team and I think talking to Dave Aranda he went into the meeting rooms and he's like fellas We're not living up to our standard LSU's known for defense. We're relying on this offense that you know, what's wrong with you guys kind of truly challenged them and I think they really bought into we're not going to rely on Joe and this offense every week. Let's let's go do our part. So I think it's a kind of a perfect storm of different scheme healthy and a different confidence in mindset is allowed them to play better. I want to I want to Pivot to Clemson you called the the Clemson Ohio State game. I went back and re-watch. It because obviously I was covering the LSU game and then enjoying myself quote unquote after after the win, but I went back and re-watch it and like Midway through the second quarter. It's 16 nothing and I know the result of the game. I know that Clemson has won this football game, but I'm sitting here watching it. How did they win this game? There's no way they want it but yet they did. So what happened in your mind in that game that cleansing was able to so to stay close how state to their credit came out. It's the defending champ undefeated Trevor Lawrence never lost a game a lot of buildup in hype about the game. Clemson has a point to prove after dropping the three undefeated and they're frustrated but High State took the fight to them. If you watch the game, they went Tempo offense. They were aggressive. They were hitting them with big plays defense was jamming the receivers and getting Trevor Lawrence and kind of an uncomfortable position. It couldn't throw the ball and was boom boom Ohio state three different times. I got into the Red Zone. They were ready to go Mike Tyson first round knockout and three different times. I'd settle for field goals. So there was a little bit of a hmm shit. Feels like it's 28 nothing but it's 16 to nothing. And then there was a third and five. I don't host a guy called for the targeting which we can argue all day about targeting. It was the right call because Sean Wade who lowered his head crown his helmet he hit Trevor on Third and five. It was an incompletion and they called that so is it automatic first down led to eventually a touchdown for Clemson? So it was like that to me was a turning point if you watch the game in the game that went from Ohio State be enough 28-nothing. A to it's 16:7. How did this happen? I just felt it. It changed the momentum of the game and then they got another score. We're Trevor got out on a long quarterback run and they had to change their game plan it within the game. They couldn't throw the ball couldn't run Travis CTN. So they started running of all people the big fella. Yeah quarterback and it worked and so I think Ohio State outplayed them. I think a lot of cases they all coach them and you got to give Give Clemson one thing got to give him credit is a heart of a champion kind of got backed into a corner didn't give up kept fighting and at the end of the game, they found a way to win it looking at Trevor because I think a lot of people going to focus on the quarterbacks in this game because it's probably the number one pick in the draft the next two seasons. Yeah where the spots that he can try to attack LSU's deepens. What are the things that he does? Yeah, I think first of all, I think if I'm Dabo and Jeff Scott the receiver coach I'm walking into that receiver room and really challenging my guys because they Beat up last week Ohio State I think went into the game thinking we're not in the ACC. We got confidence in our defensive backs. They have NFL defensive backs. We're going to jam them at the line. We're big tall receivers and they just going to get up into his and their faces and try to disrupt them and it worked and so I think Clemson really has been embarrassed by that. I heard of Mari Rogers their slot receiver come out and say man, we know excuse like we got beat up. We got to come out. Swinging so I think you got it. You got to get your receivers on track and you got to make some plays on the perimeter. You got to win against two really good corners and Fulton and Stingley. And the other thing is they've got to find ways to make the safeties from LSU have to respect the passing game. So then you can eventually the strength of their team is running Travis, he and his Louisiana guy and if they can't get him on track, it makes for a very very long day for their offense. So I think I think etn will be the key to Attack because it when he gets going it tends to set up every other aspect to their offense to more for you. Just a quick one here. Do you think it's more likely this game is in the 40s. Both teams are in the 40s or in the 20s. I would my instincts is you ask that say the 40s because I have respect for both quarterbacks and both offenses and I would throw caveat in 15 days of prep for Dave Aranda who's a great defensive mind 15 days for for Brent venables. Who's a great defensive mind. I have a great deal of Of confidence for LSU's offense because I haven't seen a defense stop them, you know as much as I respect but venables it I have to see it to believe it. You know what I mean? Like I watch them every week. Nobody can stop and they plant a pretty tough conference in the SEC with great defense has nobody can stop him. The real question is Clemson get back. It's like it's almost like they're stuck in second gear and that Ohio State game. Yeah. Can they get back into third fourth and fifth gear to try to stay up? LSU that's the one question I have in this game is can Clemson's offense score with jokes? I think Joe is going to score. Yeah. So my last one for you and this is this is a tough one to and I'm kind of put you on the spot. But if you look at it from a historical perspective what else he's done this season if they beat Clemson will be their seventh top 10 when they'll have the Heisman winner by a historic. Margin Biletnikoff Thorpe, they'll have navigated a very tough schedule. They've knocked off the defending Champions 29 and oh the last two seasons Where would that rank that resume rank historically among the great college football teams going back to the the greatest teams of all time. Where would can you do you have a sense of where that would be? All I know is because of the way this offense is played and and the way they've executed if they close it off with a win and in this National Championship, I'll be 80 year olds 80 years old somewhere sitting hopefully fishing somewhere and I'll be someone I ask me. What's the best team you saw and maybe it's because it's right now, I mean, I think back to Matt Leinart USC I think events young Tim Tebow had some teams most recently, you know to ahead a great team of Two years ago there have been great teams, but this team and I think it's because of the offense, you know, the defense had to find its way late in the year, but this offense and if they go out and put an exclamation point with a 42 Point effort, I think people whether you're an LSU fan or just a college football fan. Yeah. I think you'll look back at 2019 is one of the great runs that we've ever witnessed. Yep. Hopefully they can they can wrap it up. Yeah and what aggression and Orleans? Yeah. What a great time. We were in Santa Clara last. Imagine LSU fans because I did it Santa was or where we were where's the game? I mean, it's just it's like the football God said to LSU fans. You know what you guys have been through a lot lately. Yeah because we're going to do for ya Atlanta for the SEC Championship in Atlanta for the semi-final and just for fun. We're going to we're going to close it off for three days over in New Orleans for the national title. I don't know. It's a get much better if you're an LSU fan. Yeah, I think as the game approaches my prep for the game will be to get as much I work done as I can now so that as soon as it's over. Usually I do a podcast right after the game. It's do it for Bourbon Street. Okay that now we're tossing on so hurricane and one hand the microphone in the other down there. We'll do a post game show perfect. Perfect create context so much. I just my pleasure to be joined by Tom Rinaldi of ESPN, which is really cool for me because I'm a big fan of all your stuff Tom and thank you so much. Time. I know you're busy first. Let's start with why you're here because I know you're embedded with LSU this week for the national championship game and you were just interviewing some of the guys out there for sound of the game. Right and Clyde words either. It was one of the guys that you talk to and you came out of that interview. And you said something to bring it Barry o our sports information director for football that I think Bears repeating on this podcast if you don't mind sharing it, but just tell me your take away from that conversation with Clyde. I think this is the third time I've had the opportunity to speak with Clyde. But walking out and I could have said it the other times as well. He is among the 10 most thoughtful football players. I've interviewed in my career and that perspective is informed by a life where he's had more to experience in his first couple of decades than a lot of people have in their entire lifetimes and what he's done with those experiences manifests in A great depth and a great ability to be reflective and expressive and he just is a remarkable person to speak with I don't want to spoil anything that you're going to be using. But what were some of the things that he talked about that really caught your storytellers ear just a simple question. Like what would it mean to win and to hear him describe what he thinks it would mean to this city this state to its people to the jaw. Joy, that it would bring one of the Expressions. He used was it's remarkable to think that an egg-shaped ball could change so much but it does and I again, I think that's a remarkable thought to express he also was very powerful talking about Kochi and the tragedy that's happened in the last week and a half and how the Brotherhood of the team the Culture of the team he hoped and believed was helping the Ensminger family through the depths of this loss. So one of the things that that people associate with you as your ability to tell these these emotional stories that obviously fits into that category. I don't know if that's something that you anticipated your the direction you anticipated your career going being the guy known for kind of going into those stories. What about those kinds of stories the quote-unquote tearjerker stores or emotional stories are the stories that take you outside of the field appeals to you. So I two things I don't know that it was certainly never anything that I did by Design or intended to have happen. It just seemed that and this is something I say from time to time that I do many other kinds of stories as well. I do some lighter hearted stories. I've done stories around the butt of the joke. I've done stories that are simpler in their approach that are limited. To what's happening in the field of competition, but the stories that people remember most often are ones which have an emotional resonance and that has far less to do with me or the way. I tell them then the elements of the stories themselves because perhaps because of the relatability of that each of us not all of us is going to be able to run and jump and perform and and pull off the athletic Feats that these he's incredible athletes. Do we all will face trial and test and challenge will all deal with failure and hopefully persist to Victory and perhaps in those themes we find connection and something Universal. So one of my favorite moments from you, I'm a big tennis guy. I grew up literally grew up on a street called Wimbledon. Yeah. Yeah. So when wilden's a big deal in my household, it's right down the road here in Baton Rouge. Or the other streets that have yes, there's this was Don budge. There's Rod Laver. I'm trying to memorize some of the other streets. I lived on Wimbledon. So that was the hook John Newcombe. It's all older older. So I think I was probably built in the 80s so sure on up. We were Big Pete Sampras fans. And so I was always allowed me and my mom like who do we need to talk to to get like a Pete Sampras Road and here and I'm you could add Roger Federer to that list too. But one of my favorite moments from you is and you mentioned this being the butt of the joke or kind of being in on it was your Curiosity moment where for those who don't know Nick kyrgios tweeted. I don't know what tournament this was a petite woman US Open US Open he tweeted one morning who the hell is Tom Rinaldi? Why is he talking about tennis? And then was it hours later? Was it the same day where he's walking out to prepare for his match and there's Tom Rinaldi you ready to agree to her as being mentally little weekend of this past us open and curios who is a really volatile spectacular Talent. Yeah, as you know, if you're not a tennis fan, he's absolutely Solutely worth watching he's a popcorn match creator for sure. You don't know what he's gonna do among the most electric talents, but he's also incredibly unpredictable. Yes, and he sent that tweet at I'm not on any social media. So it was a producer who told me. Hey, I'm sorry about the cariou's three times of what are you talking about? And he's some old Nick kyrgios said, you know who the hell is Tom Rinaldi YZ commentating on a tennis match when he has no idea. What the hell's going on? Yeah. I was calling a Rafa match. Little did he know the little did. I know I knew this part I on the schedule from the previous night was slated to do the pre-match interview. The kurios has a nighttime match on Arthur Ashe. So kurios was was playing a hundred rublev who came out first. I did ask rublev a couple of questions. He comes out and then curios comes walking down the hall and I said to him Nick Tom Rinaldi with ESPN and he was like, oh mate. Oh, no, and I said he said that's hilarious. And I said why is it hilarious Nick? You gave me a shout out earlier in the day let people know and he handled it beautifully. Yeah, you did he laughed and and he was willing to play along with it. And I was I was surprised at the number of people who reacted to that moment. Yeah, maybe because of something simple that you have to be able to laugh at yourself and how often in the age Social media. Do you troll somebody or say something negative and then have to look held accountable right in the eye just a couple of hours later. So and again I give kudos to kurios because I thought he handled it very well speaking of her later, but I think we've all been trolled online and I think we've all probably trolled a little bit too. And so you never really see the confrontation, right? And I think what was in endearing about that moment from both of your perspectives was you had a great sense of humor about it, and then he had a great sense of humor. I did he didn't you know, he could have shunned. I don't know what he could have done. Otherwise, I don't if you could have shunned you or what but it was just it was a great moment. But I think what made it great also was I don't know if you plan to greet him with that. But the the line that you just said that that's hilarious line. You couldn't have planned that because you wouldn't have our what's hilarious about it. You could have plan that because you wouldn't have known he was going to say that how much of what you do as a Storyteller as an interviewer. Do you have to really listen and be able to to adapt to the situation and because that would have I would have been at Data to know that. Oh, gosh. I've got Nick kyrgios. Now. He just called me out on Twitter. Like I don't know how my handle this but you seem to be ready for it as much as you could be why would that have been intimidating? You know, I think it's to me. It's the the idea. I'm not a confrontational person. So facing very few of us are yeah. I've been afraid that there would be it on camera confrontation and how I would have handled it how I would have looked how he would have handled it would have just I don't know it would have been a little intimidating for me. I think it's taking me way too long. Ang and this is an indictment. I don't know how else to say it. It's taking me way too long to and it came at the painful price of botching interviews and I still do this I still Commit This one of the most basic sins. I don't listen well enough and I become a little bit more concerned with the next question rather than the present answer and so in listening to the present answer not all the time. But at times there's something valuable there which should trigger a follow-up and something as simple as you know, that's hilarious. Why is it hilarious that then gives him an on-ramp to explore it or go farther in the same note vain again. That's something that is I'm still at work as we all are and in progress, but I've I've tried I've been conscious of listening and not being as concerned with this sequential follow up. According to the list versus the follow-up according you what's actually being said for sure. I mean you can see I've got my list of questions here that I've already deviated from I'm curious because you mentioned listening and I think it's a super and we are going to talk football and a second by the way, we are going to talk about this you cleanse in which I know people listening want to hear but I want to talk to you about this because this is something I feel like you're really strong at but the ability to listen is is clearly a talent, but it's also what I've learned especially on this job. It can be really Ring like I remember we did that. That's Joe Series where we went up to Athens. Thank you. Thank you fantastic, and we went up there and we talked literally from 8 a.m. To 9 p.m. We talked to 13 people probably and by the end of the day, like I was just I was exhausted. Like I was just tired because sitting there paying attention and gauging it takes a toll it takes a mental toll it takes a physical toll. I was tired from the positions. I was sitting in that sort of thing. And so I'm curious are someone who does that literally every week. I mean, it seems like every week you have something coming out whether it's on game day, whether it's major time for tennis, how have you cultivated that skill? How do you maintain the energy to travel as much as you do and until these stories which some people think all you know, it's a dream job, which it is of course and we love doing it but there's their sacrifices and there's there's certainly a there's a tiring element to it. There's a toll that it takes personally. How do you kind of cope with that? How have you developed the ability to listen to people for so long and engage and Turn that into a story that's a great sign that you would be worn out by and it seems so counterintuitive right? I'm only sitting in a chair how on Earth could that be tiring? There were people breaking rocks in the hot sun and sure framing houses and length are down and writing code Etc. How could it be tiring to Simply sit and listen, but attention attentiveness is engagement. Yeah engagement. Is purposeful purposeful comes from effort effort is tiring. Yeah, and especially if you're really listening to what someone has to say and thinking through where is that leading me? Where's the conversation going to go from the previous Point that's been made that can be tiring. That's number one. Yeah. Number two. It is a lottery winning job. No. No, I won the lottery and I'm able to work in different sports and have different. Alls I'm able to balance the feature world and tell stories with the urgency and immediacy of sideline reporting with play-by-play in tennis with the interviews. I'm able to do both live and for features. It's just won the lottery. Yeah, the sacrifice really comes at home. And I'm married. I've used this line many times. My wife Diane is three seats from Jesus and there were times this late in the season where she might be only two seats away. So and our kids as well our wonderful so they sacrificed a lot so that I'm able to cash the lottery ticket. Yeah season after season. Yeah, I got to take my wife to because you talked about developing listening skills. My wife as a social worker. So she's a professional listener and she's given me a few very valuable tips both professionally and personally so a big thanks to her. Let's pivot to football because I know people want to hear about it and we were joking about your ability to listen to me. And from people and you're in the stories that you do one of the people that you did elicit emotion from this year was Edwards Ron who is an emotional guy, but we don't see that side of him often I'm talking about when you had your sit-down with him. He talked about that day at USC which the day that he found out. He wasn't getting the job at USC. What are the layers to Edwards wrong? What are the layers that you've seen from him and how that's helped him this year to go from where he was three years ago. Go where he gets hired and across the country people are mocking it or people are critical of it and to now where he's maybe the best coach in college football in the best team in college football. What how is that kind of emotional Foundation gotten him to where he is. I think one of the one of the deepest most powerful tributes, you can pay to eddowes. Ron is recognizing something very deceptively simple. Ed has changed he's grown. He has used experiences from the past and they have altered him and improved him and that's personally professionally it in almost any way and if you were sitting here with us, he would tell you that. Yeah, and the fact that he is able in the midst of a Dream Season think about this at the peak of his professional life. To still open his heart and be vulnerable enough. To pause and have his face reflect the hurt of his players. Looking to him to know why are you leaving us? Why isn't this job yours when he knows it's not his call the additional part of that to know that there's a judgment being made about me and I can't control that judgment. Yeah, I think I did everything I needed to do to secure this job to earn it beyond the interim label and I didn't get it and How he's grown from Ole Miss to SC to the time when he stepped away to what he's gone through in The Cauldron of Kelly's health problems his wife to the success his sons have in playing football collegiately all of that. I think Ed's Evolution. It can't be undervalued or understated or undersold. I also think it takes a very small. smart man to hire smart people around him And listen, yeah, and a lot of people don't do that. They might hire people who are smart and still do it the same way I do that way too often. I don't change often enough. I find myself set in my ways and I'm inspired by people who can change because it takes humility and it takes risk and that's what is raw this season. This was manifesting in the success of LSU season. How much do you see in this team a reflection of kocho because you have you have guys like Joe burrow who was overlooked at Ohio State Clyde who was overlooked coming out of high school Thad Moss a transfer you could go up and down the list. There's a lot of their it's a good combination of Elite Talent, but also a lot of guys with that same kind of mentality that that is a towards Iran has that they were overlooked they were over past you would know this better than I would but the program really is Is in his shape, it really does play with his Spirit. You can't say that at very many programs. I don't think now you can say well at the most successful programs, aren't they by Design By definition the shape and manifestation of the head coach not always and I've said this for a long time no team plays perhaps her teams of play as much but no team plays more. For its coach then LSU. Yeah none and I think that's because with Ed the players recognized the authenticity of his commitment to them and the depth of his love for them. It's funny because one of the things that I do in addition to the reporting in the writing and stuff as I help out with some of our branding we have branding meetings, we talk ideas. And any time we talk branding for LSU. I look at coach. Oh and this this is an intentional. He's not a Quote unquote brander. He's not a guy that thinks about Brands but he is LSU and he is Louisiana and he embodies it so much and I think that's why you know first here. There was a fan base that bought into him pretty quickly. Once they saw that not that he didn't have to overcome his daughters here too, but they bought into that that's why he got the job in my opinion more than anything in addition to all the other traits that he has but now nationally people have really embraced him and LSU because there is such a strong tie. They're do you sense that you think people pick up on that? I think if people didn't anyone who saw Joe Burrows Heisman speech need see no more than that. That's a player who managed his emotions as best. He could up to the point that he addressed his head coach that is what in essence caused his heart to overflow. Yeah that he Navigate that emotionally without showing the depth of what his head coach means to him. Thank you for taking a risk on me. Thank you for helping to teach me how to be a man. Those are Mighty sentiments to express in private to do it on the stage when you've just won the Heisman Trophy. I don't know that there can be a greater Testament to what he means to his players in that moment. Moment. Yeah, I mean you're an interviewer Joe is Joe Broz probably as tough a nut to crack as there is in the interview game. And so for that moment to happen was I think I think you're exactly right. That was the perfect representation that will get out on this as a as a Storyteller not as a reporter, but as a Storyteller as you're around LSU this week and also with Clemson, what are the storylines in this game that entry you had talked with Kirk about the hardcore football stuff if that appeals to you by all means but what are some of the the bigger picture? Is that are standing out to you that you're looking into this week? I think there's a number of them and they're all Sensational right? The fact that LSU is had this season and win or lose it concludes where it concludes is an obvious storyline that you have a head coach who says repeatedly over and over the great state of Louisiana that might sound like some stump line or a slogan from anyone else not from a native son who is so proud to represent his native state. That's number one number two. Two is Trevor Lawrence ever going to lose again. I'm a period there, you know Blessed Trinity. You have any idea what those two words mean now? They that's the school that beat him in the last loss that he's had Blessed Trinity. Okay. So when is he ever going to lose that that's number two number three, of course is the Joan Joe show the Revelation that's been jobber all the magic that's been Joe Brady tragically the trash that the the plane crash and what it has shown about. One coach one family the indian incandescence spirit of Carly and how she was in a way such a favored daughter of this state and what that's meant in the latter stages here of this season as the team tries to win a title and tries in its own way to show its love for one of its favorite coaches, and I could go on and on and on in the obvious. Is disrespect for Clemson and Etc. There's a lot of great story. Yes. I've said all year, you know when people compliment work that we've done and we're very proud of our work, but let me pause on on there just say the work that you guys have done the moments that you've captured and then presented it's one thing to have the access. However limited or granted and capture a moment. It's another thing to turn it around. Present it in an authentic meaningful moving way. You guys have done that time and time again in bringing your fanbase closer to the core and spirit of the program. In fact in riveting ways including the series on Jal including the 10,000 catches include and including the visit between the boy and Ed. There's so many different aspects that so many stories you guys have told Old but you've been phenomenal. Well, thank you. That means the world to me. It's very humbling and I'll tell you what, I've told people that have complement us before we're very proud of our work. We have a great team from Matt and Brandon and Chris and everybody Lindsay. I feel like every time I start talking about I should name them all but what what makes it easy as this team? This team makes it really easy on us because not of not just the way that they play and going undefeated but the type of guys the Clyde upwards you layers and the that Thad mosses the void cushion buries the code Jose. They're all they're all so One and they not only are really good football players and coaches, but they're great stories, and they're great at sharing with us to so no doubt. They've given you a lot to work with. I'm excited to see what you do for the championship game, but it's been my honor and I really appreciate your time. Thank you so much for having me. free for all
Really excited to be joined by two of the best in the business, Kirk Herbstreit and Tom Rinaldi, on today's show. Both were in town to shoot some interviews for ESPN ahead of Monday's championship game, and both were gracious enough to carve out some time for a special podcast episode. First up is Kirk, who spent an hour or so with Joe Burrow before sitting down for this interview having one of the most detailed and intelligent football conversations I've ever overheard. Kirk gives us all the analysis and insight you'll need before Monday's game, from both an LSU and Clemson perspective. We talk Joe's genius, the high IQ of the entire offense, what he's learned about trying to slow down LSU's offense, and what Clemson can do to beat LSU. We finish up with Tom, who indulges some of my own questions about storytelling and interviewing (when you sit down with the master, you pick his brain) before jumping into some of the narratives he's eyeing ahead of this game. We talk Ed Orgeron, native son and redeemed coach, but we also talk Clyde Edwards-Helaire, Steve Ensminger, and the two Joes. Very happy with how this episode turned out, as the tactical talk with Kirk and the narrative discussion with Tom gives a good picture of all the angles of interest for this game. Back later this week with more episodes. 