Welcome everyone to the Battle of Gettysburg podcast coming to you from the Battle of Gettysburg podcast Studios the world-famous Reliance mine Saloon in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania. I am your co-host license Battlefield guide Eric Lin played and I am as always joined by my co-host license Battlefield guide Jim Hessler Jim. What do we have on tap today for the episode? Well Eric and welcome to all the listeners. Once again after doing a couple of serious weighty episodes recently the life of Louis Armstead multi-part episode on the peach orchard. Richard what was Lee thinking we're going to step back and lighten up a little bit this week and talked about the killer angels and more specifically its motion picture Incarnation Gettysburg or as many of our audience knows it the movie Eric. I can't think of a better way to engage Millennials in a cool younger audience than to dissect a four-and-a-half-hour Ted Turner historical Epic from 1993 but to our core audience You either love the movie and you can recite every line by heart or you hate the movie and you can still recite every line by heart or you are the type of Civil War enthusiasts who never watches movies because you only read books, but hopefully you have read the killer angels because Eric and I think between the killer angels and the motion picture this classic story of historical fiction has had a greater impact on Gettysburg interpretation than any other media. Um, it is introduced millions of people to Gettysburg and that makes the killer angels the most important book ever written. So my friends sit back with Eric and I and revisit the golden years of 1992 to 1993 and the movie Gettysburg. We will dissect the good. What does the movie Get Right the bad what it gets wrong the ugly longstreet's beard and the legacy of this historical Epic movie before we do that. So do we have any housekeeping to take care of we have a little bit of housekeeping to do today for one the podcast is continuing to grow. We have almost 6,500 listeners right now for our episodes that have been out so it's continuing to grow every week. And once again, we want to thank our listeners and our fans for that about you frankly. We would just be two guys sitting here talking about the Battle of Gettysburg and today talking about a movie. Also. We are now in 45 50 states still waiting on a few but we've almost got the continental US almost covered. And if if we don't get all 50 soon, should we start calling out the states that we don't have on Facebook? Should we start calling those people out Hawaii, Alaska, Arkansas Arkansas, you're on the clock also podcast continues to get listens internationally now have listeners and twelve nations in Canada the United Kingdom, Australia Hungary Belgium Germany Hong Kong Sweden, Italy, Ireland, Japan and Argentina. So we are now in South America another It off the board conquered and I do believe I think we can say with some Authority that we are the most popular and listen to Gettysburg podcast in the entire nation of Argentina. Well, that's a how do you accomplishment but I think we can make that claim. I think you're right. I feel pretty good with that. If we have we found my illegitimate sickles descend in in Spain yet who is listening to us? I see Spain's not on the board yet not yet. But you know what? I am working diligently to find a Spanish listener for us. So if you're in Madrid, you're in Barcelona, come on help us out or if you're in the birthplace of George Meade. Oh come help us out here. So yeah, the hometown not not coming out to support. What's up with that Mead people may be there. Maybe it's a sickles town would be we'll delve into that thing. Right but in addition to the listeners, we've had a lot of interaction our social media, especially on Facebook, but of course we are now also on Twitter and Instagram you can find us on Facebook at the Battle of Gettysburg podcast. Also on Twitter at Gettysburg pod and on Instagram at the Battle of Gettysburg podcast, you can also reach us by e-mail at Gettysburg podcast at gmail.com. So we do want to thank everybody for their interactions shares their support really means a lot and also I think helped shape the episodes they go we get a lot of great listener questions. So really you're as much of a part of this show as we are so we really appreciate the help and the support also want to thank once again our Super Fan Mike Reinhardt for his work that he's doing on Twitter. I'm not doing a lot of work on Twitter. He's mostly running. Wow. They're so want to thank him for that what he's doing week in and week out. I am giving Super Fan Mike Ryan hired a battlefield promotion. He is no longer a Super Fan. He is our social media director. How about that Mike if you're listening hopefully that's good with you, you know, we can't pay you anything but we appreciate all of the time and effort that you're putting into this. Yeah. Absolutely. Mike has been a great help and certainly takes a lot of work off of our our desk here when you do this, so certainly want to thank him again. Then for all the effort that he's put in and you know as I've said before I'm actually not on Twitter and Instagram my kids are but you know, I'm one of these old people whose only on Facebook but you know, keep it clean keep it good and you know report back every once in a while and just kind of let this old man know how well things are going on on Twitter and just so you know, your daughter did become a fan for side old hairdo. That's nice. So I paint for a cop I know and you're not least you can do and now you and Mike Reinhardt might hear from my daughter more than I do. So, that'd be all right. There you go. There you go. Right? Well, I'll say she hasn't. Anything we put our I'll talk to her about that. Okay, fair enough. Superfan Amy from pit. If you're listening, she's not she's not know. She really isn't, you know, she might not be listening. But at least she adds to our Millennial demographic on social media. Right? Does that count and that's the key making history cool for the kids exactly like we're doing tonight with a four and a half hour movie dissection, which we'll talk more about which most Millennials were not even alive when the Movie came out. So that's another matter altogether. So now that we are recording episode 8, we've got seven episodes done Jim what sort of feedback you've been having from our previous episodes. Well feedback continues to be positive. You know, what I want to do is I want to thank our special guest from the last episode our friend colleague fellow Battlefield guide and CEO of the national Civil War Museum in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, our good friend Wayne mots Wayne Kingman on his own time to record. Word. What was a really entertaining episode about the life of Lewis Armistead including the relationship with Winfield s Hancock all of which will be relevant to today's discussion on the motion picture. But Jesus Eric looked like feedback on that was universally positive and I do think maybe one of the unanticipated stars of the show was Bobo dances own. Everybody seems very point the appearance by Bobo. Yes, who doesn't love a dog Bobo definitely took social media by by storm after that episode aired and you know, all I can think is I know the tenderness the dance sickled showed to Bobo is undoubtedly going to take certain listeners by surprise, but folks you can really tell the goodness that is in a man's heart by the way. He treats his dog and if you would like to know more about the Bobo story, of course, I wrote about this extensively in sickles at Gettysburg, which remains on sale everywhere. Maybe this segment should Dedicated tonight to Bobo. God bless Bobo Bobo sickles. So as we move forward into episode 8 Jim and I have absolutely loved every moment of putting this podcast together. Of course, it does come with some time and monetary Investments. We've had to make and one of the things that we're doing to offset that is that we are going to be bringing on sponsors for our episode. Of course, this is good for you. This is going to keep the episodes free. We're not going to get into the rabbit hole of Premium content. We always want this to be open and accessible for our listeners in our fans and and our sponsors will help us do that Jim. Do you have a little bit about our first sponsor? Yeah, I do actually and you know as we talked about listener involvement the offer to sponsor some episodes came from a listener. My Kamala Mike is a longtime friend a devoted Gettysburg scholar and he's the founder and managing partner of RPM like most of us. He is on a never-ending quest to learn and know more about the campaign in the battle. I distinctly remember giving a tour in the wheat field one time and a guy came walking. Walking out of the woods with his backpack and bulk and map in hand. And I was kind of thinking who is this guy? It was my cam Eula humping it through roses woods and around the wheat field and if that's not dedication to the cause people, I don't know. What is if your company is on a quest for senior and executive level Talent the kind of talent that can move the needle on corporate performance than visit. Mike's web page at www.pmtasetup.com group.com. Cam that's www.opm.gov/health group.com to learn more about RPM Search Group and how they can help companies throughout the United States. You heard it folks. We're in 45 States right now how Mike's company can help companies across the country and World identify evaluate and hire talent that drives profit and performance RPM Search Group folks. Please check them out and back to you Eric. So our topic today is going to be on the Angels and sort of by default the movie Gettysburg. So Jim what are your first memories of the killer angels or the movie Gettysburg kind of how did that impact your journey as a historian? That's a great question Eric. My memories of the motion picture actually come before the book the killer angels, you know, as I've told people on tours and that sort of thing. I was always a history Enthusiast, but I was not a hardcore Gettysburg person. So I have a distinct memory in the I believe it's the fall. Love 1993 of when this movie was released into the theaters. I did not go see it my brother and my brother-in-law and by the way, my brother-in-law listens to the show, but my brother and my brother-in-law went and sought in the theaters, but I did not I did however watch it for the first time when it was on TV when they started showing it repetitively in 1994 and I got to be honest the first time I watched it on TV. I thought it was a little flat, you know a lot of talking the Shin was so so so I was not really into it. But that's subsequent Christmas my future mother-in-law got me a copy of the killer angels for Christmas and I read the killer angels. I like the killer angels it now kind of the light bulb went off and I said, okay now I get where all this talking and speechifying is coming from in the movie. So the next time I watched the movie, I saw it in a completely different light and really enjoyed it and I won't go into Details now but it's certainly something that is seriously influenced my Gettysburg career. How about you Eric? What are your memories of it? Yeah. My distinct memory is in October of 1993. I was in the fifth grade. My mother checked me out of Stedman elementary school early to go see the one o'clock showing at the Cross Creek Mall and Fayetteville, North Carolina and as a kid it blew me away. Yeah. I had already been interested in Civil War. I had made my first visit there when in 1989, so I've already It's kind of exposed to Gettysburg. But this was also for me kind of this many golden age of the Civil War. Yeah, you know you have not only Ken Burns civil war came out a few years earlier. You have the movie Glory. Yep, you have Civil War Journal and a or history later. And then Here Comes Gettysburg. So for as a kid all this just kind of combined to keep me fascinated by the story for me. It was kind of neat seeing these larger-than-life characters that I've been studying about now in the big screen, and I think it was an important part of me continuing to be interested in Civil War. And moving on as I did to eventually become a historian eventually Battlefield guide. Yeah. So have you read the killer angels at that time or did you start with the movie? I did not read the killer angels after the movie came out you would see in the End Credits based on the killer angels by Michael shaara. So I went and got a copy of it and read it and enjoyed it. And I think like you had added an extra depth to the movie. If you don't if you never read the book and you watch the movie it maybe doesn't make as much sense as what they're trying to do. Yeah. I totally agree and I think that's a real problem when you see today people. Today dissecting the movie on social media, you know, probably one of the most common criticisms. I always see is why isn't David Ireland and culp's Hill. Why are they not in the movie? We had a question today? Why is the 83rd Pennsylvania? Not in the movie folks? They're not in the movie because they're not in the book and Sheriff For Better or Worse decided to tell the story from the viewpoints of several specific officers Lee Longstreet Chamberlain hand. Cock Buford Armstead. I don't think I forgot anybody but those are the primary characters in the book. So when you make a four and a half hour movie adaptation of that book, you really don't have a whole lot of extra time to throw in another hour on culp's hill so folks, you know, this this movie is based on a Pulitzer prize-winning book and that is why these other characters are not in it. Hello. I don't know why Dan sickles is not in the movie and Eric and I will talk about little bit about that during this week's upcoming edition of The Dan sickles report It's always important. I tell people this on tours to remember this movie was based off of a work of historical fiction. Yeah. It was never intended to be a work of history. It was never intended to be a documentary. So there is going to be some license that is taken to move this thing forward to try to make it entertaining but it's important at least to me is that what sort of this gateway to the story of Gettysburg for a lot of people exactly that people aren't rushing out and picking up Edwin Coddington, right? That's not their book or high tide at Gettysburg. Like when Tucker this for many people might have very well been their very first Gettysburg book and it opens up the story to them. I absolutely that's the idea folks. It's trying to introduce you to the story from the point of view of several key characters, you know, you mentioned the H word historic h words historical fiction. And obviously that is a sticking point for a lot of people frankly a lot of our colleagues have a hard time. With this historical fiction Concepts. I don't really have a problem with it again. You use the term Gateway and I think that's the right way to look at it. If you can turn people on to the Battle of Gettysburg by telling a great story. I'm kind of okay with some of the Liberties that are taken as long as you know, it gives the opportunity for somebody then to maybe read a Coddington and to learn more about it. And if anybody is out there saying I'm full of it and I'm wrong. No, you're wrong because that was exactly my gateway to the Battle of Gettysburg. I started with the movie. I started with the killer angels. It inspired me to read more factually accurate things. I now have three books 18 years of Battlefield guiding and a co-hosted podcast under my belt. So folks that Gateway is important. Yeah, and I usually don't bash the movie. I mean, I'll make a joke about bright beards. Yeah. I can't not do that. But to me, whatever. You here, that's what's important. I agree to you know, and there's a lot of guides that have made a lot of money over the years because people saw this movie The Red Book and said, you know what I want to go to Gettysburg. I want to hear a little bit more. Yeah, and I'll sometimes have colleagues and say, oh I had to talk about Joshua Chamberlain again had to talk about Lewis Armistead write in to me. It's a guide. I really don't care if I'm with you you want that's what I want to connect you to this place, right? I'll talk about Chamberlain for two hours. I will do it. All right, so I'm with you and I think you and I are like minded on that. You know, the other thing I'll add to to and I'm not going to call anybody out here. I know friends and colleagues who were inspired to come to Gettysburg because of the success that movie and now they pretend they were not now they pretend they always hated the movie they pretend they always hated Chamberlain in the 20th, Maine. I'm calling bull. I know for a fact because I knew you 20 years ago, and I know for a fact that you like me were inspired to come to Gettysburg by this movie. So stop pretending you're too cool. For school and just admit, you know this movie and this book did serve its role to get people interested in the Battle of Gettysburg. So now that Jim and I have established the impact that this movie and book has had on our careers as historians Jim. Let's give a little background on the book as well as the movie itself. How did it come to be? Sure. Well again, I won't go into Deep dive on the background of this frankly as I've kind of alluded to this was before my time. But again, the killer angels came out in 1974. As we said it was a historical novel written by Michael shaara. It was awarded the Pulitzer Prize for fiction in 1975. And as we've said we think the strength of it is primarily the character driven approach is told from the perspective of several officers in the Army, but in terms of its influence killer angels has been required readings at times in various military academies and officer candidates schools throughout the country including the US Army war College. College so from the perspective of not only having an important influence on guys like us frankly. It's influenced military training. So in addition to the primary success of the novel being this Gateway introduction that is made for a lot of people obviously, it's had some significant impacts on interpretation. That's one of the reasons other than being fans that Eric and I wanted to cover this in a podcast level. It's elevated the profile of Joshua Chamberlain and the 20th, Maine so we need to talk about that a little bit but also using James longstreet's Memoirs is a primary source it helped to significantly enhance longstreet's reputation. Now again, if you go to social media, some people think longstreet's reputation still needs work and some are still fighting the Lost Cause but clearly since the book came out in 74 in the movie and 93 longstreet's image has taken a huge upswing because of this I think too and I think we should talk about Eric that it's So elevated John buford's reputation think Buford is one of the enduring legacies of all of this, but you touched on Ken Burns earlier and you know, Ken Burns has said that the novel greatly influenced his PBS civil war production. And is anybody who has watched the Gettysburg segment of Ken Burns nose particularly his treatment of Chamberlain and the 20th, Maine. So even if you want to acknowledge that maybe the book or the movie have not had as far reaching. Of an audience's Eric and I think it has certainly Ken Burns did and when Ken Burns talks about Chamberlain and the Obscure textbook maneuver that reached millions of people through the his PBS series and frankly is still reaching people into you know the future. So I think those are all things that have come out of the success of the book that we should talk about and what item that really stuck out to me when we look at when the killer angels comes out. It's 1974. Let's think about Gettysburg historiography we I have a lot of stuff coming out the 1960s. Yeah, we have a lot of things coming out in the 1980's the 1990s. There's not a lot of great works the Battle of Gettysburg coming out in the 1970s. Yeah, and in my opinion, the reason for that is America is tired of War just getting out of the Vietnam conflict Americans have seen it in their living rooms while they're eating dinner. They've had enough of it. So will you see military history and 70s? It's kind of the Dark Ages in many respects. So here we have this novel coming through and I did do a reread of the killer angels and I think what you see is at times almost an anti-war bent to it. So I think it is influenced heavily by its contemporary moment that it was a part of not that we're going to get income literary critics here. This is not our job. But I do think you can't escape that I think at times the depiction of say a John Buckland and the second main or some of these common soldiers kind of caught up in this. I think there's a lot to that and I think it speaks to not only this historical event now. 63 but also the mood of the nation in the mid-1970s. Yeah, I think that's right and I've heard that comment before that. It was written during the Vietnam era with an anti-war slant I particularly when I read it have never really gotten that anti-war slant but as you said we're not here today to be literary critics and other people have said that as well the copy that I owned act which I'm looking at right now actually has a an endorsement on the cover from General Norman Schwarzkopf that says quote the best and most Realistic historical novel about war that I have ever read. I don't particularly find the war aspects of it all that realistic. But you know, who am I to argue with Norman Schwarzkopf about what what war is really like the other thing going back to the earlier comments on the back the other endorsement I have on the my copy is from Ken Burns filmmaker and it says quote remarkable a book that changed my life. I had never visited Gettysburg knew almost nothing about that bad. Before I read the book, but here it all comes alive. But I do think it does a good job of bringing Gettysburg alive. So the killer angels is going to be out there. It's of course going to win a Pulitzer Prize, but it would not be until it gets into the hands of a filmmaker named Ron Maxwell that it's going to begin to kind of take on a new life. And when I was doing a little bit of research on the making this was a project that was pitched for a long time a number of Studios turned it down number folks didn't really have an interest. Finally. He's going to find the right guy and Ted Turner who's going to help bring this to life? That's exactly right. You know again, this is not something I have personal knowledge of so I had to research this topic like we would any other historical topic and what they said is that for mr. Maxwell this really became a 15-year Odyssey to try to bring the story to the screen. And as you said Eric taking the screenplay or taking the story from Studio to studio and supposedly some studios said we like it, but we're not going to do it and you know thinking about what how costly this type of Squid of ban again. I've seen reports that said Maxwell sold his house in New York and had to borrow money from his friends to keep the project alive until as you said, he came along to Ted Turner the media Mogul out of Atlanta Georgia who Civil War buff and obviously took a shining into the project and warts and all about the movie and all seriousness. I have no idea for on or Ted Turner are listening tonight, but I do want to thank those Tillman for their perseverance and bringing this story to the big screen the movie is we'll talk about might not be perfect. But as I sit in 2019 it Remains the best version of Gettysburg we have on the screen. So I want to thank those guys for doing this and one of the things that even sticks out to me today about the movie is actually the cast. I mean, it's a pretty solid cast when you look at it. I am far from an expert on Motion Pictures, but I know a number of these actors think a lot of our listeners will recognize that they've done some pretty big things. In their rear sort of pull this town together for a project like this was pretty impressive aspect of it. Yeah, I seem to recall some promotion at the time featuring it as an All-Star cast that might be a little bit of a stretch but it is a really solid ensemble cast. You know, you've got Tom Berenger is James Longstreet. I always remember Berenger from Platoon and major league right to me. He's always Indians catcher chick take exactly track lie. I was not was he Sergeant Barnes and pollutant I have think of the name. Yeah Sergeant guys. Right right. That's what I always think of when I see Behringer. You know, we had Jeff Daniels is Joshua Chamberlain. I didn't really know Jeff Daniels at the time. But my wife did from some of the chick flicks type of stuff Martin Sheen is Robert E. Lee easily the most controversial aspect of it and we should talk a little bit about that. Stephen Lang is George Pickett. I remembered him from some 80's. Cop shows Sam Elliott is John Buford. I think Elliot is the one that indoors today and let's not forget Kevin Conway as the iconic buster. Kilrain now, we're not going to turn the podcast into IMDb and go into all the credits these guys have if you're familiar with them grade. If not, go look them up. But like Eric said it's pretty solid cast. Oh and how could I forget Richard? Jordan is Lewis Armistead? Because Wayne told his story last week about giving Jordan some advice on how to portray Armstead. If you folks didn't listen to our previous episode. You should Wayne had a story about working with Jordan on his Armistead portrayal and that of course is episode 7 Can find it in our archives you can find on your podcast episode listing. So if you haven't listened to it certainly tunic so I think there's going to be some things that apply to this episode that we talked about even last week. So let's talk a little bit about Jeff Daniels. He was quoted in one of the newspapers of the time is saying that he was initially unnerved by that peculiar creature known as the Civil War re-enactor. Now anybody who's familiar with this film knows that they really needed the help and support of the re-enactors to make it. And I don't think they would have had the budget to do the battle scenes to the scale that they did had. It not been for the volunteer efforts of the re-enactors who came they came on set donated their time and their equipment but I guess Daniels was initially shaken by this a little bit and Daniel said that during the filming none of them ever referred to him as anything but Colonel Chamberlain and they often saluted him as they passed. This is now Daniels talking quote. You're sitting there in a t-shirt jeans drinking a diet. Diet Coke and they're walking by saluting and saying sir the first time you want to say get a life, but then it keeps happening and you realize the importance of the War of Gettysburg to them and you realize this ain't just a job to them and I think when you see interviews from other cast members before during and after the production, hopefully, they're not just acting they're being sincere but you get the sense that is everybody who's here and working through this they really got a sense of you know, the importance of the topic the importance of the battle. He's burned to not only the re-enactors but to the audience and to me I feel that Daniels did a magnificent job as Chamberlain his portrayal. I think that's generally regarded in common thought about that. But to me even today when I think about chamber when I think about the battle in my mind, it's Jeff Daniels as Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain. I kind of equate it to George C Scott's performance of patent. Yeah, when you read about patent, you're not reading about patent you're reading it through the lens of George see Scott playing. Patent and in many ways that's the same I think with Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain as Jeff Daniels. I think that speaks a lot to the enduring impact that role had his performance in it. Yeah, I would totally agree and I know again over the years I've heard people nitpick. Oh he's too tall to play Chamberland Chamberlain was short Daniels was Tall. Come on people. Obviously Daniel's clearly owns that role and when you look at some of the critical reviews at the time and even some that have been posted on the internet since typically People who Pan the movie call out Daniel's performance was being really the high spot of the movie. I don't know that I agree. I'll talk a little bit about that. But obviously that's been a popular consensus in for many many many years after the movie came out people came to Gettysburg took Battlefield tours. Wanted to see where the 20th Maine fought and Eric is you said I think that's because of the quality of Jeff Daniels performance is Joshua Chamberlain there is One character in the movie that maybe is not as well regarded in maybe the cast and that of course is going to be the critical figure of Robert E Lee portrayed by Martin Sheen now Shane is an amazing actor. One of my favorite television shows of all time is West Wing his performances president Josiah Bartlet. I thought was magnificent but maybe everything he did is great for is President Bartlet as General Lee, maybe fell a little flat and I think this is something we can talk about a little bit more here. Yeah easily. I think the casting of Sheen is Lee is the Controversial aspect of it and again some of this ties back to the novel if you read the novel it is clear in the novel that share is attempting to portray Lee and sick little broken down a little worn out. And again, we can argue over the historical correctness of that and we have touched on that a little bit and prior episodes Weatherly is just feeling some exhaustion, of course diarrhea suffering from you know injuries from falling off of his horse. Course all of that is covered in a little more context in the novel. You don't get as much of that in the movie. So what you just sort of get in the movie is okay, Martin Sheen is acting tired. And again, if you don't have the contacts that I think that's where it loses a lot of people but Sheen had reportedly turned down the role of Lee and one of the things he had said was that not being from the south himself. He couldn't imagine breathing life into you know, the South's ultimate icon One account that I've seen says it was Tom. Beringer who taught actually talked Sheen into accepting the role and convince Sheen that he that he could play Lee but over the years we've seen other people who had been attached and maybe Maxwell tried to get it at different points and you can kind of wonder how different the role would have been with anyone of these guys playing Robert E Lee Tommy Lee Jones with that time would have been coming off the success of Lonesome Dove Robert Duvall who of course took on the role in Gods and Generals, but 10 years later when he was older and the one that I always love is that Supposedly Charlton Heston was considered for Robert E. Lee any of us who know Charlton Heston from Planet of the Apes and damn you and all of that stuff can only imagine what that would have been like with Heston chewing scenery is Robert E. Lee Moses as Robert E Lee. There you go. And I thought of the Moses connection to but I'm more of a Planet of the Apes guys. So so I kind of went there with it. I mean I could have got into that that would that would have been kind of awesome. It would have taken the camp aspect of this movie which some people think is already there. Are up to a completely new level? Nevertheless Sheen for the most part portrays lie as Lee was written and there's some areas where I kind of question that in the movie. But again, if you really got a problem with Lea not being a strong figure, you got to go back to the book on that and that's not necessarily just blame it all on the performance and I'm still kind of hung up on the Charlton Heston thing. I'm just imagining this lie on July 3rd parting the union line on Cemetery Ridge as if The Red Sea go to could have been you know, I'm thinking again Planet of the Apes, you know at the end where he's pounding on the Sandy could have been pounding on the on the dirt on Seminary Ridge after the failure Pickett's Charge has so many ways. They could have gone one more just think about the iconic Stewart. Yeah. See ya. There is no time for that. Damn. You know, there is no time would have been awesome. It would have been awesome may you know, well, I guess they can't redo it because he's long dead. So now I can see the reviews now, they're doing what ifs we're doing what ifs on a move exactly. Exact relax relax folks. We're just having a little fun. Hopefully you are too so nevertheless. We got Martin Sheen as Robert E Lee. So now the cast has been assembled. We want to kind of cover a little bit about the details about when and where it was filmed. It's like that's an interesting part of this movie. Yeah, so principal photography commenced in July of 1992 and in around our very own Gettysburg, Pennsylvania. I mean, the entire movie was filmed here locally. Some of the film's scenes were shot on the actual. Battlefield, I think most notably the stepping off point for Pickett's division Pickett's Charge was near the actual location at spangler's would they ran a camera track? Just next to the Spangler Farm Lane and kind of followed the troop movements up towards the Emmitsburg Road and then when the troops reached the Emmitsburg Road, they proceeded to a set piece that was being filmed west of the town. So there's the Pickett's Charge step off Devil's Den appears in the movie Little Round Top appears in the movie including the governor Warren statue. This is not so well hidden behind a fake tree and the one that I think when I talk to people they don't always seem to realize is that the slider Farm doubled as the exterior for Lee's headquarters? I think they shot the interior somewhere else, but there's a couple exterior scenes at Lee's headquarters. They were done at the slider farm. So you got some stuff that's filmed on the actual Battlefield. Most of it though was filmed on set locations west of town in and around the sax Covered Bridge area. So be so peaceful. Right. So no so kind of on pumping Station Road and that area and I visited some of the set locations a couple years ago. Now, you know, you got to kind of know where to look but you can still look at some of these things. And so yeah, I see that but most of it was filmed west of the town in 1998 when they had the hundred 35th Anniversary reenactment of the Battle of Gettysburg. I was actually here's a reenactor. We were out there on pumping Station Road The Big Red Barn that yeah quite a bit that was part of the reenactments of some of those sites that use Later reenactments we're part of the movie. So a lot of things west of town and they did some things out near Fairfield as well as cashtown as well. You see the cashtown Inn. Yeah right for what's right, but it was filmed here in Adams County. And for a lot of people that are around at the time it really was Hollywood comes to the small town and went out you getting this ensemble cast walking around the streets of Gettysburg. A lot of them belly up to the bar at the Farnsworth House as well. But I think it was an interesting time for the town and still people think of it fondly today. I moved to Gettysburg in 2000. I started coming to Gettysburg as a visitor probably about 1995. So at that time the memory of the movie and the filming was still very much alive and you could find almost any bartender in town who would tell you a particular story about Tom Berenger in the ladies or the guy who plays Walter Taylor and some of his extracurricular activities or that some of the Shakespearean guys like Jeff Daniels or Richard Jordan might have been a little more standoffish those He's were still very active not so much now, but they were when I first came here as you said Farnsworth House, it was a popular hangout and the artifacts many of the artifacts from the movie are still on display in The Tavern at the Farnsworth House as part of their private collection. So if you're a movie buff go go check it out sometime. If you haven't filming began in July of 1992, but it also extended into the fall and if you kind of look closely at some of the scenes most famously where Chamberlain and kilrain or on little Round Top you'll actually see their breath coming out because it's a little cooler. It's not the temperature would have been at the Battle case for once again, those are minor little things but this was a pretty extensive filming schedule Windows here. You know, what they did is they basically brought the Confederates in first in July, as you said filmed their scenes and then in the late part of August Buford Sam Elliott came to town Buford scenes were filmed and then in September they shifted the focus to Chamberlain in the 20th, Maine and that's why you probably specifically The indications of false setting in during some of the 20th Maine seems you notice. There's only one scene in the entire movie where Confederate principal and a union principal share screen time. And that's armistead's death when he's picked up by Tom Chamberlain, which ads we know is significant historical license, but it's the only time that you can see two actors from opposing armies on screen here filming wrapped on September 30th, and the final scene filmed. And was that last scene in the movie where the brothers Joshua and Tom Chamberlain Embrace of last scene in the movie is actually the last one filmed now reportedly in the original script. It was supposed to end with Harrison the Spy saying a line from Shakespeare. We are such stuff as dreams are made of and our little life is rounded with the sleep before mounting on his horse and riding off. All I can say is thank God that kind of nonsense. Since was scratched, although I think such overt Shakespearean references from screenwriter Maxwell, ultimately helped torpedo the Gods and Generals sequel decade later. So the movie ends with the Chamberlain Brothers kind of hugging and that was the last scene filmed. So what's filming wraps. There's a lot of interesting details about which screen this was going to be on was it going to be on the small screen which is going to be on the big screen and went actually back and forth then a lot of interest a little details here jump you got it. More about that. Yeah, I do a little bit. You know, I think a lot of this was initially spurred by the 1989 success of Lonesome Dove on TV and obviously the movie Glory which was in the theaters, but my understanding is initially ABC expressed interest in taking this as a TV mini-series, unfortunately in February of 1991, they showed the miniseries Son Of The Morning Star which has a special place in my heart because it's the most detailed film Creation ever made of Custer and the Little Bighorn and based on the book of the same name some Son Of The Morning Star. Unfortunately Son Of The Morning Star was both a commercial and critical failure and because of that ABC reportedly lost interest and that again probably helped eventually turn it over as a miniseries for TNT for head turner Eric now refresh my memory before we move on with some other stuff here TNT TBS. Yes, where would I have seen professional wrestling under Ted Turner during this era you would have been seeing it on TBS. That's what I like. So five every Saturday night, but I think what's interesting is point is today Ted Turner is known as a media Mogul, but this area early 90s into the midnight sort of the peak of his empire mean. He had the Braves he had the Atlanta Hawks. He had wtbs couch broadcast throughout the nation. They also had TNT, but he also at this time owned new line Cinema, so if you want to take this, Okay, we're not shown on TV. Let's try it on the big screen. What better way to get it on the big screen is if you own a production company like you did with new line cinema at that time. Yeah, and I think that's right. And you know you touched on this being kind of a golden era for the Civil War. I'll just want to add to that. It was really the Golden Era for historical epics, you know kind of during this period of the late 80s to early 90s. You've got Glory you've got Lonesome Dove. You've got Son Of The Morning Star you've got Unforgiven which was the Clint Eastwood western release. In August of 92 Last of the Mohicans came out in September and 92 then Gettysburg follows up in 93 and one of our mutual favorites Tombstone comes out in December 1993 with many of the same Gettysburg cast. So you're right, you know, you've got this kind of then shifting over to Ted Turner's new line Cinema. You've got an area here where frankly there's quite a number of classic and successful historic epics coming out, but I kind of thought it would just be interesting to see What else was popular in the theaters in 1992 when this movie was kind of getting into production 92 saw Basic Instinct Aladdin Wayne's World White Men Can't Jump Lethal Weapon 3 A Few Good Men A League of Their Own and during the first week of filming. The number one movie in the country was the classic Mo Money who doesn't forget where they were when they first saw mo money. So anyways is Eric said it got turned over to Turner's new line Cinema and the Mm, of course is you had a movie that clocked in at 254 minutes, which was the one I can't even say that with a straight face. One of the longest films released by a major Film Studio in the United States the problem with that length of running time was obviously that you could only show it so many times a day that cut down on the number of people who saw it in the theater. Well for me, I saw it one o'clock the show times were one o'clock and 7 o'clock, so That gives you this will give you much of a margin and you know, if you have a 5th grader, you're not going to have them see a four-hour movie right? It's seven o'clock at night and then turn right back around go back to school. So I had to be checked out of school, which I guess kind of defeats the purpose of that now that I look back on it, but but you turned out okay, right? Yeah. I tried. Okay did it go on your permanent record ditching school to see a 254 minute Ted Turner movie. You know what I think when my mother check me out to go see a civil war movie. I think the school just said, you know what? Yeah. Let him go. Yeah. Just let him go. Yeah. Yeah, you know despite all the limitations it grossed about twelve point eight million dollars on a 20 million dollar budget now, I guess you would look at that and isolation and say geez the thing was a bomb but since she really didn't plan on releasing it in the theater. Anyways, I'm kind of thinking, you know, the twelve point seven million was kind of a bonus, you know, it was kind of found money and then you release it on TV and you get the advertising revenue from TV. It is reportedly an all-time top seller on VHS and DVD. So I presume in the thing is more than made its money back over the ensuing 25 years, but I also read it was in limited release. Yeah, this is not Nationwide. So not only is it shown twice a day? It's in a limited number of theaters. So you're not going to make as much as you would for a larger film of that scope, but between the DVD sales the VHS sales this thing has more than made enough money based on its initial budget. Well, I hope so, I hope so for everybody involved. So by the way a director's cut which was In 71 minutes was released in 2011. That director's cut is actually the version that Eric and I both watched on the re-watch for this episode of the podcast. So when we look at this movie, there's of course the reception we give it today. We make fun of the Beards. We make fun of some of the scenes but we forget that this movie actually did come out once in theater sewing was having contemporary critical reception as well as audience goers giving their feedback. Back on it and Jim. I think you did a little bit of research into what was the critical reception of this movie. Yeah. I did a little bit, you know, and obviously today we have the modern review aggregator Rotten Tomatoes. Some of you might be surprised to realize the Gettysburg actually holds a favorable rating on Rotten Tomatoes. It's an 80 percent favorable, which is a lot higher than more popularly regarded films. So it's got an eighty percent on Rotten Tomatoes with 20 reviews Roger Ebert how Many of you remember Siskel and Ebert, but for those of you who remember Siskel and Ebert who really invented kind of the whole thumbs up thumbs down kind of thing Roger Ebert gave it a thumbs-up and three stars while Cisco gave it a thumbs down Siskel said it was bloated Southern propaganda. Although again both men praise Jeff Daniels performance. I do want to if I could note what Ebert said quote Maxwell deserves credit for not head. His bats, this is a film that Civil War Buffs will find indispensable. Even if others might find it interminable. I began watching with comparative indifference and slowly got caught up in the Majestic advance of the Enterprise by the end. I had a completely new idea of the reality of war in the 19th century when battles still consisted largely of men engaging each other in hand-to-hand combat, and I understood the Civil War in a more immediate way than Ever before and that was Ebert who gave it not only a thumbs up but three stars even if he said 43 thousand men were killed in the battle. So again you got this casualty thing that we're still is interpreters got to dealing with one more comment contemporary review Eric from The New York Times, which also gave it a positive review. They said mr. Daniels again highlighting Jeff Daniels. Mr. Daniels luminous performance as the heroic Colonel dominates half of the film and when the actor all but disappears in Part two. He is sorely missed I disagree with that. If we ever get around to actually covering re-watch here. We'll talk about that. But other critics commented on the Indulgence specifically of the length of the film The Desiree news and Salt Lake City said the result is not without interest but the sheer length is a ridiculous Indulgence. So as we're looking at our time right now, we are approaching the one-hour Mark just talking about the background of this movie. This is kind of like the movie equivalent of A peach orchard. We spent all this time. We haven't even gotten into the fighting yet. So I think what we're going to do today is we're going to kind of put a pause here. If you think about the DVD version of this movie, you have to flip the disc. This is kind of the podcast version of that where you're going to flip the disc and next week. We'll get into actually the nuts and bolts of the movie what we like what we don't like and move forward with that. So we hope you enjoyed our little bit of a background. We don't know how many of our listeners really know all of these details about the movie. We know it happens, but little bit about the details in the background of it and next week. We'll come back to you with actually the Deep I've into the portrayal of these characters and the action itself. Yeah, and hopefully if you didn't know the back story here, hopefully the next time you kind of criticized this book and this movie on social media. Hopefully this will give you a little more context over how and why book in this movie were made. So look, we may not change your mind. We like it. You may not like it but at least we're giving you a little bit of context on how this thing turned out the way it did right. So if that we want to let you know that you can find us on social media. Media at Facebook at the Battle of Gettysburg podcast on Twitter at Gettysburg pod on Instagram at the Battle of Gettysburg podcast. Also, you can email us at Gettysburg podcast at gmail.com. Now as we always do we want to give credit to our fellow license Battlefield guides and urge you if you are coming to Gettysburg to please give us a chance to show you around the field. There's a couple ways you can do that one is by calling the association license battle field guides at area code seven one seven, three three, seven one seven zero nine you can also Same day God's at the National military Park Visitor Center at 1195 Baltimore Pike and at the Gettysburg Heritage Center at 297 Stein where Avenue also once again want to thank our sponsor for the episode Jim. Do you want to tell us a little bit again about our sponsor? Yeah, as we said at the outset tonight's episode was sponsored by a listener and a fellow Gettysburg enthusiasts. He's one of you guys Michael ha Mila and Michael ha Mula is the founder of RPM if your company is on a quest for senior an executive level Talent the kind of talent that will move the needle on your corporate performance visit Michaels website at www.archives.gov/calendar search group.com to learn more about RPM Search Group and how they help companies in the United States and around the world identify evaluate and hire talent that drives profit and performance. And so again, we want to thank Michael hi Mila and RPM Search Group for helping to underwrite some of the costs. This episode. Thanks Michael and I think that's a great segue into once again, we want to thank our listeners. We've really enjoyed our interaction with you your support. We can't thank you enough. Also, if you get a chance go on to the podcast platform of your choice, please write us a review any review we get helps us and helps us get us into those algorithms that we don't fully understand but helps promote the show and so if you could do that take a little bit of time, we'd greatly appreciate it. So if that we're going to put a bow on to this episode next week, we will do our Deep dive into the content. Content of the movie Gettysburg itself. So we hope that you will join us for that. And once again, we want to thank the Reliance mine Saloon here in Gettysburg for hosting us here as they always do. Thanks again folks and we will see you next time.
In Episode 8 of The Battle of Gettysburg Podcast, Eric and Jim delve into the background of the 1974 Pulitzer Prize-winning historical novel "The Killer Angels" by Michael Shaara and the 1993 film adaptation "Gettysburg." To many students of the battle the novel and "the movie" bring out strong emotions in how they depict the Battle of Gettysburg and a number of the participants. Part One of the two-part series will focus on the background of the novel and the movie. Details on how the novel moved to the big screen, the original plans for the movie, when it was filmed, and the reception it had in 1993, will all be covered in this episode. Part Two will be a deep dive on the movie Gettysburg itself as Eric and Jim discuss what the film gets right, what they got wrong, bad beards, and the impact it had on the Civil War community and the interpretation of the battle to visitors at the Gettysburg National Military Park. The Battle of Gettysburg Podcast is hosted by Gettysburg Licensed Battlefield Guides James Hessler and Eric Lindblade. You can find The Battle of Gettysburg Podcast on social media at the following:  Facebook: The Battle of Gettysburg Podcast Twitter: @gettysburgpod Instagram: @thebattleofgettysburgpodcast Email: gettysburgpodcast@gmail.com 