Hi friends, welcome to the modern Mama's podcast where to Modern mama's with the gold to inspire empowerment self-love deep physical and spiritual nourishment holistic health and Joy No Matter your journey gender or perspective. I'm Laura radical rings. I'm a certified cross the trainer certified nutrition consultant and Mama to ADT Wilder and I'm just I'm hold the Space Wellness. I'm a level 1 Cross Fit trainer a license of certified athletic trainer with a master's in kinesiology and Mama to Baron Camille. Please note that while we're here to provide advice and insights. We aren't medical practitioners and always recommend that you check with the trusted provider before implementing any changes. Thanks for joining us or so happy you're here. Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of the modern Mama's podcast. I have a really really special guest here with us today one that has been highly anticipated based on you guys this feedback. We have Julie Bauer today from paleo mg. Julie. Welcome. Thank you. Thanks for having me on we are so excited. This is a little bit of a unique topic that we're going to explore. We are the modern Mama's podcast. But for those of you that don't know we named it the modern Mama's podcast because Laura and I are Mama's not necessarily with the the whole intention of only diving into topics around motherhood, but I think this this topic is been highly requested by a lot of our listeners and it's interesting to note that you know, our listenership is really probably about a 50-50 split of Mama's. Yes, but also other women and men who are not moms, but you know support moms or are kind of in that, you know space where they're not really sure if they Gonna be a mama. So they're really exploring all their options and kind of getting to a decision a personal decision on their own. So this is going to be interesting wonderful very informative and educational and also again before we dive in the decision there the the podcast topic today is really a personal is Julie's personal story. It's her personal story about how she came to the decision to not have children at this point in time and we'll kind of Discuss why I said at this point in time and see if you know, this is a fluid thing for her if this is a hard-and-fast decision, which I know it can kind of it can morph in different ways. So I'm interested to really see your take on that Julia. But again, this is just a personal story. This is not the be-all end-all of everything and her questions that she asked herself or you know, the way that she came to this decision is not obviously the way that everybody comes to this decision. So take that for what It is Julie. Yes, so I'm going to have you tell us a little bit about yourself and your own words, but Julie correct me if I'm wrong your wife your mama to your dog Mama to Jackson. Yeah, we all know and love which by the way when he was sick. I don't want to bring up, you know bad feelings. But when he was sick, I cried I cried. Yes. Oh my God. I had so many people who messaged me and were like I was With you and it's funny because I not funny but when I saw a girl recently who lost her dog, she found out he had cancer and she had to put him down and she's telling the story and I'm just balling and this is like long after Jackson was sick, but I finally had that experience of watching someone else on social media that you connect with and you see their animal or you know, whatever their child their family member and you see them going through this hard time and you wish you could take that pain away and you're crying along with them. But it was amazing the support I got when Jackson was sick and he was in you know in the hospital and we thought he was going to pass away the support I got was crazy. I still have not gone through all the messages. I got from people. It was the most insane amount of messages. It was so cool. That's so crazy. Like people get invested. I mean, obviously you have a huge online social media presence and a lot of people watch your stories and it's I imagine it's kind of it's just interesting because People are so invested in your life and obviously in Jackson and I felt the same way. I was just like, oh my gosh, you know and Cassie Joy who is a mutual friend of ours, you know, I was talking with her about it and like we both got tears in her eyes because she obviously has Gus and it's the same like in her family like in our family, you know, pets are like they're my children too. I don't know like the attachment is really really deep and soda leaving. Talk about it without getting teary-eyed. So I know I mean, it's crazy that we can create such a strong bond with an animal and something that doesn't talk back to us. You know that it's like very one-sided but it's like they love you so unconditionally, so to see them hurt in any way or knowing that they're going to pass away before us most likely is just it's just so heart wrenching because they're just the most innocent creatures ever. Just want to make you happy they're just not the best but now he's all back to normal and healthy and better than ever which is so cool. That's amazing. And I do think I was having this conversation with someone yesterday. Actually, it's really unfair that dot the dog lifespan does not match the human lives. It's not fair. I'm really not fair. It's crazy. It was like a really eye-opening experience because you kind of forget this is my first dog like my My own personal dog, you know not just my parents and you kind of forget that they're not going to live forever because you know, they're a puppy and they you're like, oh, you know, we have like maybe 12 to 14 years, you know when you have a smaller dog, and so you just don't think that's going to come very fast and then to have that experience where you're like, oh my God, he might not come home and our house is going to be quiet and we'll have this dog food in a dog bowl. Would we do throw that out? It's like weird things you don't think about and then when they actually do pass It's like man, that's just so crazy. They don't live very long. Yeah, they're just too innocent. You know, I know world is too crazy a place they have to move on. Okay. Now that we've got our cry Fest. It's important dog Mama's. It's an important and important role so way off tangent here, but Julie, you're the founder and owner of the blog paleo mg, which has over 650 paleo friendly recipes. You are a fashion icon. Con seriously a fashion icon with regular weekly fashion posts and you're also a New York Times bestselling author with the payload kitchen and the Paleo cookbook. So I mean you don't have that much going on right like life is yeah. I was easy easy peasy Phelan so I know a little bit about you because Cassie again, I know y'all are good friends, but she talks about how much of a hard worker you are been about how you could probably work like all day long and just continue. Like, you know create content that's really helpful for people. And also I recently heard that your husband you guys are working together ish sort of yes. Yes. He he worked at this business for 14 years. It was killing him. I told him at one point. It's either going to kill you or it's going to kill our relationship because you can't you can't function as a person anymore. You're so wrapped up in this job. That's just killing you. You and so he I finally talked him into quitting it took a couple years, but I finally talked him into it and he quit his job in April and I told him to take the whole summer off. I'm like don't think about work. You've worked six days a week for 14 years. Sometimes 7 just relax do what you want to do. Go golf travel with me help me out with some stuff when I need it and live your best life. And so he's just been doing his thing and he helps me whenever I need help with stuff and I'm like, we'll figure About the job later. Like we have a mortgage we can cover we're okay. We don't have kids like we don't have to worry about that right now. So figure out your life, it's so fun. So he's never been happier. Pretty cool. Oh my gosh, that makes me really incredibly happy for you guys. I've you know, my husband doesn't work the crazy hours, but he's bitten I think a lot of us can probably relate when we see our partner or spouse like in a job that's really likes literally sucking the life out of them. And the fact that you guys got to work together to create a solution where it like, hopefully he does find something that's checks all the boxes. You know for him. I think it's just amazing because it's seeing your spouse or partner like fulfilled is it just gosh it's so rewarding. I don't know so I had to make sure relationship so much better like when you have both and you know life isn't great. You're not going to be happy every single day, but when you fulfill Fulfilled in your daily life and you don't have stress that's sucking the life out of you. You can give so much more to your partner. And that's what it was really lacking within our own relationship is he had nothing left to give in the relationship because everything had been taken away from him and stalked out of him and and it's a great company and I'm not talking bad about it by any means, but it just, you know, there's there's only so much you can give and to be able to give back to your relationship if you can't Find the balance between both it's time to move on and it's hard to get to that point and it's really hard. If you know, you're the only person working in the relationship, you know, we couldn't have done that if he was only person working. So I'm like this is the time to do it. Well my business is doing well. You never know how that's going to change and so it's been awesome. It's so cool. He's golfing right now. That's amazing and really luckily he can do that because you guys are in Colorado and we're in Texas right now where you literally Go outside for more than 30 minutes. That's amazing. Is there anything else that you want to share with us about like your business what's going on with you? Like business is just kind of like exponentially growing for you. It's consistent hard work. I'm assuming just yeah, it's just kind of a Daily Grind. I shared to new recipes a week on my blog. I share the workouts. I do every week to hopefully give some people at some inspiration and new moves to try I try to share a ton of workout videos on my Instagram and I'm actually filming a ton tomorrow and then I'm always sharing kind of my beauty skincare routine because skin I've suffered with cystic acne for years and years and gone through all kinds of different experiences and I get tons of treatments done to work on it. So I share that kind of crazy ride along the way so I'm always just trying to come up with different kinds of content. That's helpful from ways to work on self-confidence, too. New skin care product to try I just try to kind of hit all different things. And so people are always able to find out about new products new companies new recipes just get inspired in different ways. That's what I'm hoping to do. I love it. I really have loved watching the evolution of it being like a really recipe heavy blog which don't get me wrong like you still cranking out some quality recipes but much more like a lifestyle blog where it is. It's that whole picture like you No, the workouts and the skincare and the mindset and the fashion and I like it's kind of like a One-Stop shop, which I love. Yeah. Yeah, I hope so. I want to share all kinds of different things because that's how we all are, you know, we all have different things that make us tick and so I get to share all of those in one place and that's so fun. It is it's awesome. Well today you're going to be sharing your story about your decision not to have children, and I know you've shared about it. I'm in various platforms various ways you Your own podcast and you know very active on Instagram. But today we're going to be talking about and really just kind of like dive deep into it. We have some listener questions. Everyone's really excited that you're you're the person that's going to be speaking about it. And so what I kind of want to preface, I feel like this is a sensitive topic you and I were discussing this a little bit before I hopped on it's really sensitive topic, but I do also think for for various reasons, probably the idea that women Women would choose not to have children has become much more not necessarily commonplace, but more social shows socially acceptable. I don't even know if that's the right word. It's just a conversation. That's not quite so taboo anymore. Yes, you know, I mean, I'm sure it's different everywhere depending on where you live, you know the South First Colorado like I live in a community of people where many people my age or Not to have kids or they're like, you know what maybe that'll change in the future, but I'm just around a lot of people like that. And I know that's not the same every where you live. So I'm lucky to be in a community that I feel supported in that but I know not everybody does but I think it's definitely becoming less of a Taboo Talk topic for people our age when I talk to you, you know, I know we'll talk about this but when I talk to my mother-in-law or even my mother about it, it's like what But why why would you not have children? Of course, they've had children they had me they had my husband like they want grandchildren. They want the most fun part of having kids and then to say I don't think I'm going to have them it's very much like wait what for the kind of older generation. So I think it's getting less and less taboo and more talked about and people understand that people are just very different. We're all so different we are and that's what I love about our Casas really celebrating and cherishing those differences and really creating a space where we can actually have this conversation in a meaningful and respectful way. So I'm really really excited to dive in but before we do I like to do an ice breaker question and I'm really curious about this because I know you love food and I if you what's your absolute favorite thing to eat of all time, like if you had to eat pick what your last meal, for example, what would it be? Kuri kuri down Thai curry. Is there a place specific place? Okay. Now, of course, I'm going to forget the name because I've only been there once it was this place in a Santa Barbara and I can't remember the name, but I have I have it in my Santa Barbara Post. Okay, so but it was the most delicious Curry I've ever had and I could eat it a million other times. Oh and there's this place in Vegas. S that's phenomenal it's called Lotus of Siam and I could eat the Thai curry every day of the week there. I just love Thai curry. I love it so much. I just had a green curry risotto the other night. That was phenomenal. I just love curry man. Do you like it? Did I see any kind this bastard? No, because Thai Spices are bananas. It's like there's Thai Spice and there's American. Thai Spice and I like it I like to get like a little sweat on my upper lip, but I don't want it to be like that. I can't finish the dish. So so I like it moderately spy van up into three moderately Spicy Thai curry. All right, we have our answer the world was wanting to know so so good. Oh my God, I love it. Okay. So I feel like we have kind of dope into your business background and how you kind of got to where you were. I feel like we could just jump right into the topic. Are you ready? Let's do it. All right, so Let's just I mean, I feel like it's I feel like there's no real way to like he's into this but I guess we'll just start by saying when did you feel get that initial feeling that you were thinking that you might not want to have children? How did that kind of story evolved? And you know, I don't I can't really like figure out the time that I would like. I don't want to have kids. I never thought that it was just I never felt a pull towards having Children, so when I you know when I see a baby or my friends having kids like I'm like, oh that's cute, but I don't have this need to like hold the baby and be around the baby constantly and I can't wait to see the baby and I just never had that pole and honestly when I think back to what kind of made me feel like, okay, I don't know if I really want to have kids. I was a lifeguard for 10-plus. Years and I taught swim out swim lessons for probably seven and if you've taught swim lessons, you have been screamed at you've been kicked in the face. You've been spit at you've had poop surrounded by you and water you've been peed on I had ringworm on my neck at one point because the kid wrapped his arms around me and had it on his arm. So I had a lot of things introduced to me at a young age. Like whoa, this is a lot and when you're like taking care of children almost like Parent when your life guarding because the parents have just like gone off and gotten drunk off the side bomb has been the parent as a young adult and I'm like, I don't know if this is for me so I can't say the exact day I decided it but once I started dating my now husband and so we started dating and like 2012 and when we started dating and it got more serious. I told him I'm like just so you know, I don't have any interest in having children. I don't know if That will change I can't say for sure because I'm not a person who says this is you know forever but I don't have any yearning or want. So that's something you have to be okay with moving forward with me. And if you're not okay with that I 100% understand like you have to be with a person who wants the same things as you with in the future. And so that was something he had to think about and my husband definitely loves kids way more than I do and he's Good with them and he would be such an amazing father. And so when we started getting more serious, that was like he told me he's like, okay, I'm okay with that and I just want you to be honest with me if that ever changes. So something that I do every year is I check in with him to say. Hey, are you okay with not having kids right now and it's something I bring up yearly because I he's seven years older than me and so I don't want him to feel like He's missing out on something because he's you know a little bit older. He seen all of his friends already have children and have like kids that are 10 years old and I don't want him to feel like he's missing out. So it's definitely something that I stay I keep up with every single year, but it's hard to put an exact thing that came up but I've just never had the feeling that I can't wait to have kids at like some of my friends have right? Okay, you know, it's interesting because so when you met your husband, did you ever doubt that decision like if I'm gonna get we get pretty personal on here if you don't answer anything by all means just to be like, I don't know, but did you ever because you said like he would make an amazing father and he you know, did you ever doubt that decision or that like instinct or have you ever gone back and forth between that decision and your mind, I mean I My all the time I go back and forth in it all the time because at the end of the day, I know I don't want this right now. It's not ready for it's not what I want out of life and I am a person that has learned to really go with my gut and my gut tells me that's I'm not in the position to have children right now and so but it is something that I fight with regularly and I've cried to my husband about and it's something that I told him that scares me that you know, you'll get to a point where you like really want to have kids and I don't and where will our marriage go from there. And I know my mom actually went through that with a previous marriage before my dad, they're still married, but her previous marriage she decided she wanted to have kids and he didn't and of course there were other things in the marriage but at the end of the day that's kind of what pulled them apart as well and So that's something that has really stuck with me. But you know, I think you have to stay true to yourself. And if you if you don't really really want something like a human being in your life. How are you going to be the best mom, but that being said if I accidentally got pregnant and we had a child. I know I would fully love that child so freaking much and give them the best life, but it is something I battle with more so some years. So then others I felt really good about it this year and that feeling and wanting to do other things and fill our lives in different ways, but it's definitely something that eats at me a little bit that it's like I carry all this responsibility that you know, I'm the one who makes the decision because I'm the one who's going to carry this child to term and so it almost feels like it's more my decision instead of our decision and times. So it's something I battle with for sure. But this year has been a year where I'm like, no, I don't I just don't want that at all. I love that. You mentioned that it's it's a process. It's still an ongoing process for you. I mean, even if you're checking in with your partner and that's a question that one of our listeners has like how do you keep that conversation open with your partner? And I think you kind of nailed that it's more like, you know, we just keep communicating it audit and I think we we talked about communication on the Cast like as the key tool pretty much like every relationship but it's like I love that you mentioned that you just keep checking in and you just keep checking in and you're probably constantly checking your heart like you said like is this still what I want? Okay. Yes it is right. Now. This is what I want and also preserving that space for you to change your mind if if it does happen, you know, but I think communication as you know, if you're in a healthy relationship communication is key to an Ongoing healthy relationship. And so you have to let them let that other person feel safe coming to you with their concern. So I tell him like if you feel this pull towards having children, I need you to come talk to me about it. Don't sit on it because you don't know if it's going to upset me or put me in a weird position. Like keep you just want to keep that open communication. So, you know what they're feeling at all times because when that person keeps something inside and it builds it's just going to get Oh much worse over time. Totally there's going to be some sort of explosion and it may be over something silly that has nothing to do with with the real issue. But then it comes out definitely seen that go down before all the time. Yeah all experienced in our relationships in some way totally. So tell us a little bit more about the process that you yourself went through. I mean you were obviously thinking about this before you met your husband. So what was the process like for you? Was it more formalized? Did you make a list? Or was it just like a feeling? Was it a little bit of both? Did you have any specific questions that you actually asked yourself to try and like get to the like root of it. Yeah, when I first felt it was just like okay. This is just I don't want that. So that's that's it. And then I actually did a podcast about it and I wanted to kind I just wanted to lay it out in a way that I could talk about it on the podcast easier and so I wrote down a pros and cons list. And this is really funny because when my husband and I we had our first year of our relationship it was on and off we broke up. We got back together. We broke up. It was just very up and down and when we got back together the last time I was really pushing back. I'm like, I just don't think this is going to work out and I told him I'm like, I think we should write down a pros and cons list you write down your list. I write down mine and we go through this and see if these are things that can be improved. Don this these cons list and so we did that in our relationship and it made our relationship so strong and to some people that sounds like the weirdest thing but it made our relationship so much stronger because we it was really opening up to the things that weren't talked about. And so I did that with a pros and cons list of having a child of what are the pros what things could I get from hat having a child and raising a child for 18 plus years and then what are the cons? And to me the cons at this point out weigh the pros and so that was kind of a good visual, you know, when you're not understanding something getting a visual can kind of help you at times. And so that's kind of how I went through at all. I love that and I love that you were kind of like I think seeing some of those things in black and white can really be helpful. I mean, we just did that with this kind of off the topic, but we just did it Tim. My husband got a job offer and he's also working on building a His own business and so we were like, oh we should just take the job because it's table and then we put it on paper. It was like, well, it's not actually more money and you know, there's all these it's just it's weird to see not weird, but it's actually quite helpful to see it in black and white makes the decision a lot easier. So do you mind sharing what were some of your pros and cons the ones that you be comfortable sharing? Yeah. I mean, of course Pros as we all know. It's like you've never love something so much and to raise them. One and show them how to enter the world as a good person. I think there's all these great things about having children, but for some of the cons, I mean Financial Financial standpoint how expensive it is to raise children and take care of them and to give them the things they need for me. Just the time that goes into having a child, you know, you're going to have them for 18 plus years and all. The things that I want to do like traveling on a regular basis and for me right now just doing whatever I need to do at that moment. Those are something things that I really want out of life. I want to be able to call the shots. And when you have a child you don't get to really call the shots there. It's depending on their own their schedule and what they have going on and you know, when earlier when I felt these feelings when I was probably like 24 23 24 a lot of it at first started with body stuff and it was physical like just how the hormones how the poor moans affect your body and having to deal with postpartum afterwards like all those things were really scary to me and now I don't have those same feelings because my body changes all the time whether I'm pregnant or not, and so I think postpartum I think Scary thing of just some of the feelings that you have the hormone changes that you go through that's scary to me, but it's not like that. I wouldn't have children over it but I think at the end of the day, it's just Freedom just having the freedom to do what I want when I want for as long as I want and work for as many hours as I want. Those are things that I really appreciate in my own life, and I'm just not totally willing to give up yet. That's I think you for being honest ensuring that and just so you know, I absolutely Lutely, no judgment whatsoever. And I 100% understand every single pro and con that you said because it's all true. It's all definitely something that like if our listeners are out there trying to decide if this is a decision that they want to make or not. It is all something that's affected. I mean your entire life is affected and of course like you said, there's a million blessings and a million wonderful reasons to have children, but the Real reality of his of it is that when that happens? I'll speak from personal experience at least your focus shifts almost almost a hundred percent whether it's a good thing or a bad thing to this other human being that you're like, oh crap lately. I burst this child now. I need to keep it alive. I need to keep it safe. Yeah anything keep it happy you feed it and close it and spend time with it and make sure that I didn't like it doesn't end up in therapy and down in 20 years. Yes because of and it probably went. Yeah, I probably will always be no matter what we love therapy on the podcast here. By the way. We think therapy is holiday for everybody. But so it's very real and I think you just saying those things out loud. I think sometimes people are afraid to say well I'm worried about what my body will look like because people fear like they're going to be judged for caring about that. But I mean, that's just a natural thing to be concerned about and the real real at least for me is He does look different. It's not good or bad but it's definitely, you know taken some adjustment on my part, you know, my postpartum like all the things that happen. So it's real those those concerns are real and valid and I'm sure there are a lot of people out listening they're going to be nodding their head along and being like, yes, like those are the things those are the things that that I'm you know concerned about. So thank you for sharing those. Yeah, and you know, it's like I'm sure many women have had a lot of these same fears before they had a chance. A child and then they go through it and you just figure it out, you know like you were to certain way before you had a child and then you have to child. I have a child and you find different ways to work and your life just changes and you figure it out along the way and so, you know when I feel like sometimes when you're talking about, you know women do have those fears with body changes. I had talked about that previously and I worked with this brand. This the brand reposted one of my photos and this girl went on the their Instagram and said I can't believe you're supporting this this girl. Julie says she doesn't want to have children because how it's going to change her body. Like she's such a selfish disgusting person. It was like wait wait, wait wait, I talked about that on my podcast, but I also named 15 other things that worry me that are very important things and that's all you had as a takeaway. And so I feel like Sometimes people they read into one thing and like they feel attacked for using that and like I have many friends with children. I have many friends who want to have children and who don't want to have children and I see all of them the same and so I don't know why people sometimes feel attacked with that different Viewpoint and kind of feel like they have to attack back because you know, Well, you're not attacking them for having children. Like why would you want to have children? Yeah, it's so strange because and I'm not judging people for having children just because I don't want to have children. It's just like I'm not judging this person for wearing a pair of pants that I hate. Like it's just the pants they want to wear, you know, so it's just such a it's a funny topic because it it just like makes people feel so sensitive like that you see them differently for Were wanting something different than them and that's so not the case. Sorry. That was like a total tangent. I think that is really important weird thing you experience with people. I think it's really important and I think it's also it's everyone's going to relate to this topic and really any topic based on their own particular story. And that's just not I love this quote. I think it's I can't remember who said it but other people's opinions are none of your business and really like, yes, that's true. Like I It's hard as it is and I'm I don't know if you're into the Enneagram, but I'm a 9 on the Instagram. So I want everyone to be happy and everyone to love me and it's really hard when people don't like me for a total area is really I mean, no one likes not be liked but it's hard but it also comes like the work is realizing that has nothing to do with you and everything to do with their personal experience in their story. So I'm glad freeing when you understand that and get to that point that when One's attacking for some reason, you know, it's all coming back from something. They're going through in that moment that has nothing to do with you. It's just it's such a freeing feeling once you understand that. Yes, totally. 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I really also am just kind of low-key obsessed with the beach. He'll help honey sticks. They have been incredible for my anxiety after doing all the things during the day a honey stick paired with a good meditation makes me feel the chillest. We love this company and their product so much that we've partnered with them to bring you a special discount just for modern Mama's listeners get 15% off your order by visiting beekeepers Naturals.com for it / modern Mama's and use the code modern Mama's at checkout. It's that simple. Okay, and so we This conversation has been great. I feel like we've just naturally kind of talked through a lot of these points. But how do you I know this is a good one. This is a good question for a lot of our listeners. How do you still stay connected and relate to your friends with just so this is a listener question. This particular person wants to know like how do you stay connected to your friends who are having children and continue to have children? And obviously, it's it's hard because I mean, maybe it's not hard is it? It tell us about it. Like how do you stay connected with your friends who are moms and dads? I feel like the only time it's hard is when they feel like they're not connected to me because I don't have children because I never feel that way when I go to my friends who have kids or who have newborns. I never don't feel connected to them. Like I'm very genuinely interested in what they're going through the changes. They're going through the ups the Downs they're going through and so I feel very interested. In the changes that are going through in their own lives as they become parents or you know, you're always learning new things as a parent because your child is always going through something just like you are without a child. You're always having different things that happen. So I never feel weird around it. I've had a couple friends that I feel that they feel uncomfortable that they can't connect with me because I don't have children but there are plenty of parents that I have out there who don't feel that way with me. So I think it Goes back to how they feel like, I remember being at this party and this and she was very drunk, but she weird I was asking about her kids and what things are happening in their life and then she's like, so when are you and Brian going to have kids and I told her I'm like, oh, you know, I don't know if we are that's just never been on kind of my own agenda. Who knows that that'll change and right away. She was like, oh and the conversation stopped She didn't know how to Hold a conversation after that came up. It was like I had hit her with a pan or something in the face. It was so funny because I'm like, I'm still the person you were talking to ten minutes ago. Like nothing has changed other than me saying, I don't know if we're going to have kids but it was like she didn't know how to talk to me after that. So I've experienced that a little bit but most of my friends who you know, I've been with friends with for years, they understand that and none of that changes and I still of their kids and loved being around their kids. So if it if there is some kind of weird feelings, it's usually because they feel that way and that's that's hard thing to break. I can understand how they feel like, I don't understand them because I don't I don't know what things they're going through but that's okay. We all are going through different things and we can connect with people on other and other ways. So it's something I go through sometimes but I don't have those feelings. Myself very much. I think that's a really interesting point to it's more. I don't know why that's become the like conversation starter with adult relationships. It's like if you are a women of married age of childbearing age or whatever people feel like that's just like the opening conversation starter. It's not a judgment because I'm sure I've done that before too like hey when you guys gonna have kids or joking about it, but it's also I think it's really great. Point that you bring up that hey when we start a conversation, like there's so many other things that you can connect with someone on as human beings besides whether or not they're going to have children or what it's like to parent children. I'm obviously that's a huge part of my life. But I love to talk about skin care and like the Enneagram and fitness and food and books and movies and there's just so many other topics of conversation. I think we can connect with each other. On there's so many more and that's that's something I think people need to be. So aware of is when I when I got married that was all the question. I was hearing from everyone and I was like, wait what like just because I got married doesn't mean I have to have children and people are like, well, that's what you do. I'm like, no not necessarily like what if I what if I was going through infertility and then I couldn't have a child and it was a really sensitive topic which I have many friends going through that and then you're kind of rubbing it. In my face asked me about it. I think it's something we have to be become aware of it's like people are so much more than their marriage or their child or whatever else. There's so many more pieces to that person that we can learn about instead of just saying, okay. What's next on your list? Like okay you got like when we were just dating it was like when are you getting engaged and I'm like, oh shit. I didn't know that. I was supposed to get engaged soon. Like I hadn't really thought about it and then put this pressure on me and then it was the kids after that and So it's always something next one is when are you having the next kid? When are you going to have the next and I feel you know, those are such personal decisions between those two people or even that one person. So I think we need to turn the topic into something else because there really is so many other things we can learn about individuals that we don't know about them that doesn't have to do with that. Absolutely. Do you have a go-to response? This is the listener question too. But do you have just one that you kind of throw out there and try and shift the Conversation or just kind of feel it out with every situation. Yeah. I feel like I kind of feel it out, but I wish I had like a more like funny one or something, but I'm just always like yeah, that's not really my plan. So, I don't know if we're going to have kids. I just don't really have any interest in that and I don't always know how to go about it because every situation has been so different with people some people are like, oh that's cool and other people are like Wouldn't you have children? So it's like I feel like sometimes I have to tiptoe and that's silly like I shouldn't have to tiptoe about my own personal decision that has nothing to do with anybody else other than myself and my husband so it's definitely something that I feel like it's a little challenge around but I usually just say, you know, that's just not on our radar right now. We're just doing other things and people are like, well, that's so you don't have that many years. I'm like, well, there's a lot of countries to visit and And I just I just kind of steer the conversation in two places. I want to go to because that's just more on the agenda right now. Right and I think I mean, I don't know, you know you but I can see like humor being a part of like just your way to like steer the conversation but at the end of the day, it's like you should be able to just say no. I don't want to have children and that should just the response should be like cool. What else can we talk about? Like, I feel like I always To elaborate like yeah, I'll finish like oh, yeah, we I don't know if we're going to have kids and then it's like this long silence. And so I'm like because you know, and I feel like I have to like explain myself when I don't have to explain like anything to anybody I'm talking to but I still have that feeling and you know, who knows if that'll change maybe it'll change if I you know, hit like 45 50 and go through menopause people will stop asking but I'll just get real blood and be like, it's none of your business for real. Mind your business. Okay. So, how do you feel? How do you keep how do you keep from feeling out of the loop? You kind of alluded to you like you just not really an issue to you. But like say you're with a bunch of like your friends who are Mama's and they're having conversations about kids. Do you ever feel out of the loop or do you try to contribute to the conversation or are you more of just like, hey I'm here for like empathy and sympathy but I don't have much to ask conversation. I feel like sometimes like sometimes I'll have my friends talking about, you know, something they're going with with the kids and I almost want to relate my own experiences with a dog back to kids that I have to be like Julie just dog is nowhere near the experience of having a child like you need to shut it down. So I always like don't bring up that but that's how I want to relate. I'm just like, oh man, like when they're talking about they're like Potty training I'm like, yeah, man when I when Jackson was potty training and I'm like no Julie shut it down. You cannot do that. So I feel like sometimes I have a hard time my sister-in-law. She she's kind of on the fence about having children, but she's also not married. She doesn't want to have kids until she's married. And so she just doesn't know where she wants to go, but we'll be in those situations where were with all our friends who have kids and we'll be there for a while and then we're sometimes like okay crap we have like Thing to relate to this conversation and I feel like the things we have to bring up in conversation or just annoying to them. They're like, okay, they're like bitch. You're not busy wait till you have kids be busy. I'm like, okay. Well, I don't know if I'm going to have kids. So can I just never relate to what you're going through like that kind of sucks. And so there are those situations where you just feel like okay. I can't bring any of this convert anything to this conversation and I don't want to like efendim. Mom either with my own input into the situation, but I'm also lucky enough to be in a community where there's a ton of my friends who don't have kids and so I have plenty of social situations that don't include children. But yes, it's I just try to be sympathetic to what they're going through and listen and you know, I just was talking to my hair stylist today where she told me her, you know, two year old hit her in the face because You messed up like their swim lesson, and he couldn't go to swim lessons, but he just doesn't understand and he doesn't understand that hitting someone in the face of the bad thing and she know she's telling me these stories and she's like man, you're never going to have kids because of these stories. I'm like no. No, I like like you're only going to tell these crazy stories because they're crazy ones. You're going to tell like how cute your son is while he hugs and kisses you at night like it's not as fun to talk about. So I just like hearing the stories and be sympathetic to the situations are going. Through and then hopefully they want to hear my own life stories without feeling like I can't understand what they're going through. So I think it's a two-way street and you just have to have friends who are understanding and like just care about your own life too. You know, you got it has to go both ways. 100% And I think that it's you know, whether it's a good or a bad thing the people who can't relate to you because you don't have kiddos you. They're probably going to kind of lose their way. Maybe the relationship is not going to stay strong and and maybe that's a sign that it didn't have a strong Foundation because there should be other things that keep you connected in any sort of relationship. You know what I mean? Like I I feel personally again that I'm not just a mom and that's not a judgment. I don't want anyone to get upset. I love being a mom. I love my role as a mom. But I also am like I'm a very multi-dimensional person in like I feel like like if I'm in a room of with my mom friends and single friends or you know other women that who are choosing not to have children like I can still really enjoy their company and still find something to talk about with them and empathize like with their struggles as people that don't have children, you know, like it's just just being a human like connecting to another human. Yeah. Yeah and being understanding of what they're going through and remember like there was life. For you had a child too. And so, you know other and now a person who you know doesn't have children and so you have to remember there is life without that child too and just remember that it's just it's a it's a tough one, but I still I'm lucky to have friends who support my own choices and understand those even though they can't completely connect with it, you know? Yes, absolutely. So we're coming to the end of our our episode which I'm really sad because I feel like I have a million other questions, but these are these last couple are kind of a little bit of doozies here. So I'm going to see what's on your heart. But was it hard part one was it hard to have that conversation with y'all's parents and this kind of the second part kind of ties into it because do how does how does that relate to that like perceived? Social judgment like real or perceived social judgment like, oh my gosh, they're not having kids. Like I'm sure it kind of ties in because our parents, you know, and this day and age they're mostly a little bit more old school like you that they had us obviously they have children. So kind of how was that navigating that conversation and then like just the social aspect of it, you know, my parents haven't been to vocal about their feelings towards that I think because they don't want to upset me because they know it's an UPS can be an upsetting topic for me already. And so they don't really voice their opinions on that. They just support me and being happy. I think that's at the end of the the end of the day. They just want me to be happy and that's what they've hoped for forever. And so I know it bums them out because I'm an only child as well. And so this is their kind of one opportunity to be grandparents, but my mother-in-law is much more vocal about it and when she first found out When she heard that like I said something to one of her friends and that I don't know if we're going to have kids. She was like, what do you mean you're not going to have kids I was like, oh, I just I don't know if we're going to and she was like, what does Brian know that I'm like, yeah. Yeah, we've talked about it and that was a very hard thing for her and I think it's still is and you know, of course I haven't said like this is the only way I'm never having children, you know, that might change because we change all the time. And I'm freaking 31. My mom had me when she was 38. So I grew up thinking that everybody had children in their late 30s not knowing that was kind of quite the anomaly when especially my mom's age back then so it's hard with my mother-in-law for sure and it's something I try not to bring up but she'll she'll constantly say when she comes over that she got rid of my birth control or say things like that. Oh Lord, she brings it up. Sure, but I just try to kind of stay clear the conversation because I don't want I don't want to upset her and those feelings of having a grandchild. So that's it's a hard one. For sure. Yeah, and I think gosh it's another thing. It's like seeing the perspective from both sides and not one is right or wrong. Obviously. This is you guys decision. It's very personal, but I can imagine you know, as a like I still obviously of my children decided not to have children. Children or they were gay or whatever it is that they want to do with their life. I'm going to support them. But at the same time it's like I almost it's something I have to work on. Like I imagine them having kids right like that. I'll be your grandma one day and then if they choose not to it's like that takes time to process right like to change your idea of what your life will look like and so I can see it. I mean, I can definitely empathize with her not to say that like joking about throwing Birth control away is funny really at all. But like, you know what? I mean? I don't know if that makes any sense. Oh, really? No. I completely understand coming from that standpoint of like you've seen you picture your children growing up a certain way you picture it and then when it doesn't go down like that, you're like wait, this is not what I pictured for my life. And so that's kind of a hard pill to swallow sometimes and I'm like luckily. You still have two other children. So remember that that but it's you know, that's something you have to face as a parent. It's like you don't get to make their decisions for them. And so then you kind of have to move on from some of those things that you picture and the like you pictured so I know it's a hard hard thing for my parents and my mother-in-law for sure it is but it's also one of the many many lessons the main lesson that I've learned in parenting is that your children like you do not control your children, obviously when they're little like you guide them and you're trying to teach them. But like ultimately they are their own human there there little individual with their own thoughts and feelings and like just so much. It's like the biggest teaching lesson I've ever learned as a parent like you cannot control another human being and yeah, it's a good one. It's a really really good one the sooner you learn it the better off you can't control but you can support and that's what you know, I recently went to my friend's wedding and it was a wedding of two guys and One of the parents didn't show up and like this is totally you know, different topic but at the end of the day like your kids are going to choose whatever life they want to choose and they're going to live whatever life and if you can just support them in whatever happy and healthy life. They choose that is the best thing you can do as a parent is just support them. And so it's so hard to see when parents don't support because it isn't the life they see for their own child. It's so sad you just you have to learn As a parent like you just can't control everything you can guide them and then they're going to create their own life for themselves. Absolutely 100% I love that will to round it out. What is your top advice to women or couples who are in a similar Place navigating this decision. Like if you could say one thing like one last little thing you've already shared so much but what would that be? I think it is listening to yourself because you know, we're We're just bombarded with with social media with images of people and having children. And that's the thing you're supposed to do or your family members or your friends and it's so easier for us to just fall into doing what everybody else does but if it doesn't feel right to you listen to that and that's okay. It's okay to be different than what you feel. Like everybody else is doing around you listen to yourself. Listen to what you want out of life because As we all as we know the only thing we know is we get were given one life so we might as well live it exactly how we want to whether that's with children or not. So listen to yourself and stay true to yourself as what I think is most important for any person out there Children Are No Children perfect truth bomb perfect wrap up to that episode. I wanted so much. Thank you. Julie tell us where we can find you how to connect with you all all the good things about where you live. On the interwebs where you can find me on pay Liam g.com. So that's pink pale OMG and you can find me on Paleo mg everything. So Instagram Facebook, I will never write back on Facebook because I hate Facebook. You can find me on Instagram. You can find me on Instagram stories. You can find my dog Jackson on there who is currently like trying to attack my hand and ruin this podcast and yeah, feel free to message me there. You can leave a comment on my blog I replied. My comments there and I think that's about it. Come try some my workouts on Instagram. Awesome. Thank you so much. Julie as always if you guys are loving what you're hearing, please check us out on iTunes right us write a review. You can find Laura and I on Instagram. I'm at just dot hold the space and Laura's at Laura dot radical roots. And you can email us with questions. Is that Jackson? Yes. Oh my God. I love it. We do real life your we're not a perv. Ugly edited podcast, but party. I love it so much. You can email us at modern Mama's podcast at gmail.com for any questions or ideas for interviews. Thanks so much for being here guys. Thank you so much, Julie. Thank you. Bye. Stained around podcast see you next time. Thanks for listening to our podcast. See you next time.
In this episode, Jess sits down with Juli Bauer of Paleomg, to chat one of our most requested topics - the decision to not have children. While many of our listeners are mamas or mamas to be, we have so many men and women following along who are still investigating the idea of motherhood, and it's important for us to honor that journey as an integral piece of our community! Juli shares her personal story, including how and why she arrived at her current decision, the conversation she had with her partner, how she navigates her friendships with the mamas in her life, managing societal expectations and so much more. She brings her classic humor, wit, and honesty to the table, and we are so excited to share this important episode with you all! Juli Bauer is a wife and mama to french bulldog Jackson. Juli is the founder and owner of the blog PaleOMG, which has over 650 paleo friendly recipes. She’s a fashion icon with regular weekly fashion posts, workouts and travel tips. Juli is a New York Times’ bestselling author including, The Paleo Kitchen and Juli Bauer's Paleo Cookbook. Connect with Juli on her website (www.paleomg.com)  Get 15% off Beekeeper's Naturals products with code: modernmamas Get 15% off Four Sigmatic products with code: modernmamas  Connect with us: Modern Mamas – @modernmamaspodcast Laura – @laura.radicalroots Jess – @jess.holdthespace Laura’s website – http://myradicalroots.com/ Jess’ website – https://www.jessgaertner.com/  ---   Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/the-modern-mamas-podcast/support 