Hey afterbuzzers, before we move on to your next topic. We just want to say thanks to our sponsor. Anchor. If you haven't heard about anchor it's the easiest way to make a podcast. Let me explain it's free. Plus there are creation tools that allow you to record and edit your podcast right from your phone or computer. Also anchor will distribute your podcast for you. So it could be heard on Spotify Apple podcasts and many more plus you can make money from your podcast with no minimum listenership, and it's everything you need to make a podcast in one place download the free anchor app or go to Anchor. Um to get started it's the battle of the Lux in Hannah's making sure to get the full story because no taxation without representation guys. It's The Bachelorette after show. So grab your Halo top bitches. It's going to be a bumpy ride. You're tuned in to AfterBuzz TV. The ESPN of tv top now let the ladies and gentlemen Welcome to The Bachelorette after show here and AfterBuzz TV. I hope I don't get in trouble with my producers the dropping that cuts right at the top. Yeah, if you guys are tuned into our video right now, you probably are recognizing that we're not actually live candidly. We're having some tech issues here at AfterBuzz TV, which does happen, but we're doing everything we can to get on the air because we know that you're just as thirsty for our Bachelorette coverage as we are to give it to you. So we thank you for your patience guys, unfortunately because of the circumstances we will not have a live chat tonight, which we're bummed about because it's one of our favorite Parts about the show too, but it's okay. It's just for this week. And again, we're getting this footage up as quickly as we can because we have to talk about tonight's episode that episode is of course season 15 episode 4, and the we that I'm talking about starts with me guys. My name is Jeff Graham and I have the always on the top of the news Christine Bean. Hey guys, Christine Alexis. I would say the always opinionated Mike feeling that's accurate. What's up guys? What's up? And the always suspicious Renee Ariel is my middle name absolutely and the full of energy job and the fall of energy me. So guys as I mentioned coming season 15 episode 4, of course, this is Hannah Beast season, and we're not going to be only going over the episode. We also had some news for you and we'll make some predictions for next episode as well. So before we get into our coverage, I want to hear what everyone's overall thoughts on the episode where Christine being let's start with you. I wanna hear what you thought. Oh, this one was a tough one to get through. I'm going to give it like a solid be like not more than that in terms of the for grading it not a lot of action per se again with the misleading promos. Thank you not. Thank you ABC come on, but overall it kind of episode right in the middle. Yeah. I had fun with the episode for the storylines that they were kind of advancing. I was like, okay, this is some interesting drama, but as far as getting to know a lot of the guys are The advancing the kind of quest of Hannah not much happened good point highlights the episode just many people bothered me Hannah and we'll definitely get to that but I think that's why it was like a bit to get through for myself just because I'm like, what are you doing? Hmm, and that's hard when the the lead is is acting in the opposite way you want or do and you keep screaming at the TV and she doesn't listen. It's like she can't it's very frustrating. Yeah, I agree. I did think it was an interesting episode though. And I know we're gonna have a lot of thoughts on Luke P. But however, we feel about him. I do find him to be a very interesting villain. I don't know if we've really seen a villain with this kind of I don't know earnestness about how much he likes the lead despite behavior that we probably all agree has problematic Tendencies. I do think he really does like him a lot. Mmm. I don't buy it. No. No, I don't think that he's really in love with her. No. No, you don't think he's starting to fall though. That was two episodes ago. He already beat us to that. Yeah, I think it's just I think she's a conquest for him. He's a very competitive high energy type of guy. I think this is just another game that he needs to win. Obviously. It's manifesting itself in infatuation not love in my opinion. I agree. I don't think you can fall in love with someone after a few days when you're actually not spending that much time with them to begin with at all on top of that. He is openly as openly admitted to being a retired F boy. I think he's incredibly manipulative. I think he's aggressive. I think it says a lot that he can't get along with literally anyone else in the house. I absolutely think Hannah B's a conquest and I think it shows how manipulative he is that anyone split know not knowing whether or not he is actually like a good guy. I think that shows only his manipulative Ness rather than his character. Well, he won you over a bit this week. Jeff will get into it. I don't know if I'm so aggressively anti Luke p is everyone else's I think I have Comes with Lucas and like for him to be the major mouthpiece. That's really leading the Pitchfork parade. I think is a bit of a problem. I don't know. Let's save the loopy conversation because it's going to be a big one when you get there and let's go and start with this first one on one, which was Jed kind of how we expected this to play out. We're just to catch you guys up quickly of the guys did move. In fact to Rhode Island. Also Jed was in Boston as was Hannah, which there's I will say on one level two seasons really well edited, but there's been a couple of months. Moments where it's like unfortunately three of the guys died, but we're moving on round. Don't make these jump cuts that were just like, why are we at Nasa right now? Like it just makes no sense. But so the guys are in Rhode Island, but Jed and Hannah are in Boston for some reason and what do we think of their one-on-one Mike? Let's start with you what you think. I mean, I'm an East Coast person. I love the East Coast love that's fantastic and Jet is I'm no mistake about it is one of my FrontRunner. I thought the date went fantastic just like you said, They expected very romantic all the good moves. He gets the rose. Nothing crazy and out of the ordinary for me. Hmm Renee what you think? Sorry Christine go for Ranae know I really like their day. Let me say because I know before we came in here. I was like, I don't know about Jedi we'll get to why as for the date itself, there's something so special about hanging around someone when it feels easy because in the dating world that's very hard to come across finding that connection where it's just like, oh, wow, I can just say whatever. I mean she was making jokes. She was being quirky and when someone allows you to bring that part of yourself out to very comfortable. So I do see him going far. I also really enjoy the he was open on the date about the fact that he came in here for the wrong reasons because obviously and we see it all the time and we know it but they never admit to it. So that was new and I appreciate his honesty. The only thing that turns me off about Jeb. It's the fact that he posts about 20 stories a day all I saw this one who he was in his car literally out like it's so many that Little separations for each story were too many just selfies in the car. That's what bugs me about them because I don't I don't like that. Why why I didn't have Hannah does not have access to this information. So it's out of her choice. So for what we see on the show, I like him or what I seen on Instagram not a fan not a fin. I don't know how I feel about him revealing the whole I was coming in to promote my music, but now I've fallen in love. I thought that was really risky. I think it could have gone either way. She could have really thought that it was kind of phony than well. If you were completely coming in for your music and not for me and now all of a sudden it's the kind of same thing as Luke. You can't fall that hard that fast love. No he didn't but he did say far. I'm just saying I could have seen that playing out the wrong way. It was a risky move. It was risky, but I think it paid off and I honestly do appreciate the timing of it because a it is one-on-one. That's your opportunity to Bare your soul and give your story and I thought he attacked with something head. That a lot of us viewers were thinking and have been debating about is he just trying to further his platform and I like that he was very direct. He used the right words and really brought it home. And then I think I think Hannah felt he was sincere and I felt that he was sincere that he really does care for her. I love seeing him open up a bit. I said this off screen and our watch along bummed we couldn't stream that but I that date was perfect. Like have we seen Hannah get that silly lately. Like I mean, she just was so natural with him like you said and I think Think it's really telling when you can just do nothing with someone else remember re-season when him and Lauren B were walking around and it was crickets. Like it was quiet. They couldn't even comment on things that were going around them. It was straight crickets. And then meanwhile those two are talking in the street. Yeah. Yeah, that is the kind of connection that I would die for with a guy. It seemed it seemed not like they were on a competition show and just like we were seeing an actual couple being filmed. There's a lot of chemistry. There's a lot of chemistry between two of them not only physically but also just you know finding your life partner means being able to have a conversation with them that like you said feels natural and like, you know, you're finding someone who's your long game person romantically, but also when you're walking around and City commenting on the architecture, you know, I'm just a lot of time with someone sitting around and like they do a good job of sitting around together, maybe more than any other couple so far that we've seen is really great and going back to kind of his realness with it with opening up about the real reason he He came on the show. I I could only see someone admit that if they did start getting feelings because otherwise, what does that do for them? Sure, you know what I mean? So that's why I was like, oh he does have feelings for her and when there's an undeniable chemistry, like you can't fake that you can't fake hours of time that you spend with someone walking around and like act like you're both having a great time. You anyone would see through that but their chemistry so clear and I like them together. Do you guys think Celtics Jalen Brown is a good relationship advice giver? I would love to know what that brand deal was right because the Celtics had to get in there and then whoever sold that had to go to the team and say what he was going to talk to Hannah for about 5 minutes on camera good relationship advice which one of you wants to get made fun of by your teammates for the next ten weeks straight. This has to be what happened to his credit though. He did a pretty good job. I We As Americans we ask so much of athletes. We asked them to be edible well-spoken. We ask that we have such a double standard with athletes where you know with musicians if they're good at their job or fine with it, but we need athletes to speak perfectly and do this and I don't know I've always felt that way with sports and I actually thought Jalen Brown is like pretty good on camera, you know, that's not easy to do what he did and I thought good for you Jay Len Brown. I don't take relationship advice from you. Anything else huge here. I do want to I think that's pretty much gens de right. Do you guys feel like there's anything? As we need to comment on know he's but before we jump into the next topic, I want to use this time to just say thank you two guys two guys watching us and tuning in to our show every week here at AfterBuzz TV. We wouldn't be who we are without you our viewership from you your support. You're like subscribing to us on iTunes all of that helps bring traffic into our studio and we just love making content for you guys. So thank you so much for making us the ESPN of TV talk and be sure to like this video comment and to join us next week when we actually do go live. So yes, and I've been checking your ITunes review so look for those five stars and I'm seeing some but we will read them on air if you continue to give them so let us know what you guys think about the show use iTunes platform to do that. And let's see those five stars. Okay. I want to shout out one quick moment, which was when the group date was read by John Paul Jones and he said his own name John Paul Jones. Yeah and everyone laughed at John Paul Jones including grants, and I just I'm gonna try a little dark horse, huh? Grant grid I don't think has any real feature on this show, but he is like a paradise helpful for me like I It's got a good sense of humor and his living it up right now. I feel like Grant has dealt with it himself that he's not going to win this and he's just having a ton of fun on the show. Hmm. He's like sitting back. He doesn't really say anything. There's no one on ones with Hannah. There's no little interviews. Really. He's just kind of chilling drinking enjoying time rugby time. Yeah. Well, I think they cut out all the time that they spend one-on-one together because we hear that all the time where it's like well we did a lot more than it shows on the show. So I'm sure he is. Is moments with Hannah we just don't see them. Well, we did see go ahead Christina. I honestly just don't think he's right for this franchise. I know you think it's like could leave but I don't even want to see him on Paradise. I kind of just wanted to go away the was really interesting graphic designers. Yeah, but the one interesting Grand moment was when he was hanging out with Hannah during the rugby game. Yeah, it was weird during the conflict. She was when he turned two grand they were they had been talking weird and it just makes me There I grow what was the name of the long haired girl that rode away on the train last season because remember her Heather Heather Heather. I feel like he might be kind of a Heather where it's like he feels more like a fun cousin than like a contestant on the show. But like she knows that sausage party Grant who's in his mid-30s doesn't really like her long game deal. So she can ask WTF is happening with the other guys speaking of let's talk about this rugby date. First of all, how Bachelorette was this where it's like the first thing we hear is like be as violent. And as you can and the aggressive tendencies you have let's amp them up and when they like lean into that we have the audience screaming kill him kill him ABC tries to wipe their hands clean of violence, but they so want someone to go to the hospital during these things and they got it. It makes for a good montage the same exact Montage that we get every year misleading us to think something crazy happened when in reality, it's like someone falling off a bunk bed on their face looking at you David Chicken Man digging man. Well John Paul Jones said, Whoo, let's go man, Shaka bra, which I have no idea what that means. It was a nice we gathered in the subtitles, please grab some scrum down moments again a lot of non context for some of these moments, but we just have to get into the real meat of this moment. Right which was when something happened. We saw it in the corner of the screen. We did rewind it a couple times. But what we know is that Luke P picked Luke s up and bodyslams hmmm. What happened here. We laughed a lot. Funny to play a fact because I think ABC might have added some sound effects. Yeah you watch it back is where it happens. What is happening here? So you're well to your point Jeff the editing has been so weird because they did leave out a key part of the the fight here a was shot at a weird angle and apparently there was a scuffle that happened just before it. So that was a little confusing to piece together, but Lucas and loopy were just butting heads and like you said you bought Slammed. Mm. Yeah, I don't know. Can you really make sense of what happened? I found it odd that there wasn't better camera angle on it because it's like when she starts making out with some guy there's 10 camera angles on it. They can zoom around and like Matrix style. But this we just have tiny in the corner of the body slam. I don't know that whoever was on camera crew that day. I probably got so in trouble I know like you missed this. Yeah, they searched hard for that footage, but it's the loose going at it with each other and each one has opposing stories, but it seems like The rest of the guys are on lucchese's side. It does seem a little have the same story aside from Luke p and other people saw it and Luke dug his grave early on by Luke P that is saying I don't remember what happened and then all of a sudden is like, no actually I only hit him with this part of his mind. It was cussing at me specific. I don't remember what happened but here's everything that happened and by so many words. Yeah when I was watching it back it did look like there is a world in which Luke s could have been coming for him like Luke P was standing and loukas was coming out. No, what was said? Yeah, Jeff there is a world. It's not this one. So what are you what did you look s was definitely running in that direction? Yeah, if he was gonna run up and confront him like hey, why'd you do that to me? Whatever Bowl blond have some words or something? I don't think it was gonna go assault him or anything like that. So it's either that or he literally was running back on the field to go back into the game. One of the two things happen. It doesn't matter because Luke P assaulted him right off the bat what I'll say about this situation and I'm actually going to say Dave Tyler seized a just so we can unpack all of this. I think that this situation brought out the worst in everyone. I don't feel like anyone looked better because of it and I can't think of anyone Grant. Yeah Garrett hand. Well, I thought it was the most sweet thing at the end when he was like Luke UI 14 friends in this house and you hurt one of them and I don't want this to happen again. I love him because he's like not He's not trying to be a decade was like, please please don't hurt my friends. He's so cute. Yeah, I think maybe Garrett is the only person who like is a net positive here everyone else. Like I think that this brought out the worst in Mike J has definitely brought out the worst in Luke s whoo, whatever happened to him. Keep. I know he's a political consultant and after his behavior and words. I'm not shocked to learn that he might be someone who's the engine behind a ton of smear campaigns. I I think you guys are way team. I'm majority here. There's part of me that feels like Luke P needs a Defender and I don't exactly know why and I may be ready to be that person. You think the story is somewhere in the middle of the table and I think the story and here's what I'll say Luke P apologized immediately and Lucas wouldn't accept his apology and I'm sorry. I'm the kind of person and when I get apologize to I listened and I've tried to let it go. This could have gotten squashed if Lucas would have just accepted Lupe's apology. You think Luke s has seen this as the opportunity to try to force Luke pee out of the I was in rally the guys around I don't think he's a weak guy who's unable to take ahead. I think this goes to show though again. I think Luke p is manipulative. I think he either couldn't control himself in the moment, which is honestly worse than being manipulative in my opinion or he knows exactly what he did and to look good. He apologized and the way he handled it after was to playing dumb. He's not that dumb he does think so. He's so calculated even the way he went back to Hannah, which I know We'll get to that's not someone that's just stupid like he knows what he's doing and the way he plays Dumb with the guys is so obvious to me the factors like I don't remember. Oh, yeah, but then I thought in my memories you saw in your like what Luke P like I don't I don't know that dudes manipulative. I don't like him at all. I don't I kind of don't agree with you. I think Luke P isn't calculated. I think he's completely Reckless. I think he is volatile, but I think he's someone who needs to learn. He's obviously has a lot of growing to do as a person but I think he's an impulsive like Hannah said passionate person and I think he recognized that he made a mistake and I think when he was recounting the story he was doing his best to tell the truth and but why don't change the story then if you really did something wrong he changed it. What was his what was said versus what was landed on that? Essentially. He like need the guy in the face and then body slammed him, but then Luke story was that he was coming at him, too. Punch him and then he oh you like maybe hit my leg and he was cussing at me. He played victim that's manipulative when everyone else saw something else go down and your story is that you're the victim because look at this little guy is always the victim. I'm so confused. What was the original the article that his story changed? Yes. It did. What was the guy said his story changed, but I think they were putting things in his mouth. No it changed because he first I don't even remember happen like we just and then he was like, oh, yeah. Thank you him saying, I don't know. He did he I mean the dart changes and he said one thing or the other. He said he oh, I remember just like something happened. I don't know like it wasn't a big deal to then. Oh, I was the victim in this like there's a scroll little scuffle and then he was coming at me and get on punch me Luke P always plays victim on this show. You should really pay attention to the people who play victim because that's what gets into your heart. You're like, oh you right now I kind of feel like look P need someone on the side. He's manipulative to Hannah. He's like, oh, well, I don't know. Maybe I'll leave. The house he's always the victim. It's always about him and those people in your life that are like that are toxic. Luke is a toxic person. I really can work on it. But this guy's not a good person right now in this place. Maybe he's better now, maybe his Instagram caption will get to was genuine but like just pay attention to all of his actions because they may be little but that all adds up I agree I agree is a toxic person, but I don't think he's manipulative. I think he's Reckless and kind of irresponsible and immature. I don't know. Okay, I don't know that he's manipulative the whole way through I think the stuff like well I was thinking about going home tonight. I think that's extremely manipulative. Yes, the instance tonight. I can see it being manipulative, but honestly, I can also see it as he's a dumb jock this guy started running at him and he's impulsive and stupid and slammed. Mmm. So then all of a sudden he went. Oh, I'm gonna get kicked off the show because I just did a dumb thing. So let me try to backpedal and little bit manipulative. I'll say I thought he was coming and he was going to hit me and I was self-defense thing. That's literally what you're describing. Yes, but but we talked about when we were watching this show. I don't think he has some crazy high level master plan that he's like playing 4D chess with all these guys and knows how to manipulate the system into winter. That's not what I'm saying. He is an incredibly manipulative person. It doesn't mean them all reasonable get well. Yeah Rising he's an overall plan. However, so far many of his actions have been incredibly manipulative the fact that he said in front of all the guys we saw Saying hey look guys. I'm going to go up and like tell her like you are here for the right reasons like, you know, whatever in act like he's going to give me a good person but then goes upstairs and it's and he knows if he words it a little bit differently. There's no way that Lucas can come back from that like, oh he said he wants me to come up here and like tell you he is here for the right reasons, but like in a way that makes him look good in a way that makes Lucas work look, Even worse I yeah, but like but that's the thing like everything that I'm pointing out of single instances you guys agree. He's manipulative add it all together. That's an incredibly manipulative person. That's what I'm saying, but not from like the initial hit if we're just talking about know I'm talking about from the show starting. He's been incredibly manipulative. He's always playing victim. He's always making it about him. He's a manipulative toxic person. You're giving him too much credit. Like I think you should To make it about yourself. Yeah, I mean like I think he's someone the way he does. I think he's someone that really makes impulsive decisions often the wrong ones, but I think everything he's done has been pretty Earnest. Like I feel like you're giving you're turning him into like a Slither and when I think he's just not that bright. I think he's kind of a middle school boy. He's trying to figure all this out and he's been a pot. Like I think when he apologized to Lucas, he really did feel bad. I think he actually thinks he's in love with Hannah. I think a lot of the things that seem crazy to us in his mind. He believes are true. All I'll say is everyone disagreed with me about Caitlin until I was right. Yeah, I'm usually pretty good at reading people. I'm telling you like I've met people like Luke p as I think a lot of us have and being a girl like Christine and I were the ones who were like, yeah, he's definitely like an F boy. We see he's manipulative but it's the two guys on our panel that don't see it because we've met Luke peas. You guys haven't dealt with them in the same way. I mean, you're saying it all Renee. I'm letting you take like but you know what? I mean like we both have met. I mean, I'm sure any okay girls They're when you've met at voice and he's admittedly is admitted to being a retired at boy. Like I'm trying to keep trying not to say the word. Um, but you know that type they are manipulative you think all the F boys. I've met. Are that smart that I want to give him all the good know they're manipulative and not the best people as is Luke Pete not saying he's a genius. I don't think he's a genius right but he's manipulative. He plays victim. I don't think he should be on the show you he manipulates hand on a daily basis and that goes to show you the fact that she's still see. See something in him. I feel I feel for her because I'm sure we've all been there but like damn so where do you position Luke Essen all this because I thought he came across looking much weaker. I think he's a little be I don't like Lucas. I'm not saying that he's a good guy. I'm not like, oh, it's Lucas is right. I just think loopy is wrong. I think Lucas handles. He's very sensitive. And I think he handles the problems bat the wrong way. I think he I mean and I pointed this out like look at the way he words. I'm really still upset with look peaky. And say yeah, I don't like that guy. I don't want to be around that guy which anyone who I would say is a bit stronger would handle it that way like oh this isn't a good person. I'm going to stay away from them. But he's like my feelings are still hurt by Luke p and he the way he handles confrontation. Like he's clearly just like, you know what? I mean like a shaking a little Chihuahua, but that's what kind of made it a bigger joke with like Luke P saying he came at him because that's clearly not Lucas Lucas is very emotional sensitive and like trying to be strong but it's not coming across while on TV. I don't think either of them are the best. I think Luke Peas Just genuinely bad person. I think Lucas just doesn't know how to handle his emotions. I think Lucas could have come back from the situation hundred percent from the P. Well you said when loopy went upstairs and like manipulated her he was doing it for a way that he that Luke has can come back from and I think you totally could have. Oh no after Luke people. That in her head that that Luke s can they have different names. This is the most annoying right? Mr. Penis know why it's because Han has already established her feelings for Luke P Lucas is too new. He can't come back from that. I disagree. I think he can't and what he needs to do is have all the guys say that's how it happened. It's not about that though. It's about Hannah's not going to like him the she's not coming back from this. They're not going to be date like happily making out that is this behavior is attractive to a woman on If all the guys got together and said this is literally what just happened. He just said this not that it's cute that you think he's gonna come back from this. He finally well. I mean Jed's gonna win so it doesn't matter but I don't know. I don't think he's I don't think that she would believe loopy of all these guys. I don't know why at the end of the episode she takes the loops aside, right? Yeah. Well The Producers just not let her all the guys who just say, hang on. This is not what We're all sitting right here, but you don't want to go there trying not to fall into the Trap again of taking on someone else's battle because I think my day is already LED that charge and it's like you can comment but so much between before you get you start looking weak and looking like you're fighting an argument. That's not your heart. Is it but they all do it as a group at one time. Then I think it diffuses it and gets the point across different game move, but she's not and I want to make this clear she's not bringing Luke p and Lucas in a room together to see who's being honest. She's bringing them together because Luke p and her head is a Runner and she's trying to find out if he's a bad guy. Lucchese's he's lost. He's I'm sorry. I think he's gone to he's gone the I don't he's gonna win. No, but he my point is when I say he's not coming back from this. I don't mean like Luke people be proved right or wrong. Okay. I mean Luke s is not the way you will shoot. He's made Hannah feel with how he's acted. He's not coming back from that. They haven't built a strong enough relationship. He's done. So so you think regardless of what happens Luke p is staying no I'm saying Luke s is going Home like he's don't either it's either Lucas goes home or they both go home from this little three. No, I don't think I think she's going to keep loop around a bit longer regardless. I don't think she's gonna make it. She's going to come to a conclusion next episode of who's going home. I just genuinely believe that because of the way Luke as acted and the fact that she didn't build a strong relationship with him how he's acted with her about this problem. It's such a turn-off. He's not coming back. You're not going to be like, let me give him another chance. It's done Luke and she does She has not mentioned the incident at all. Yeah, what do you mean when he goes home? No it with this whole daddy said if he could yeah if he could rewind the whole thing, but does he just slosh it off? And she says anything the guy's an idiot, whatever he did it. Like no tell me about when you were a kid. Yeah, he's talking about me. No, I mean like just continue the conversation like learn about her and just like School / it up. No, I just I don't know. I think he just could have handled it a little more like confident and secure himself just acknowledged that it was a shitty thing to do, but that his Focus again is on Hannah and I don't even think to your point. I think the way he handled it is what send him home because I don't even know that it's the whole I have a tequila business thing. Like I could be here for the right the wrong reasons that I think it's just the fact that like loopy meet him look real weak in that situation yet because Jed admitted his like whether or not he was there for the right reasons to and I think That they put both of those conversations same episode kind of how they do with Cam in my chain. They're pretty story and the way that Hannah addresses both is so telling of like who she really likes she went to loopy for his side of the story first and then very much was like thrown by it. So, I don't know he might get the best thing out of this whole show. Anyway, I mean, he probably wasn't going to win and now bunch of people know, he's got it tequila brand its traffic is a cuffs on me good for him. One of the ways we keep all these shows for you free is by our amazing sponsors. And today Spotify is one of our sponsors on Spotify. You can listen to all of your favorite artists and podcasts in one place for free. You don't even need a premium account Spotify is a huge catalogue of podcasts on every topic including the one you're listening to right now on Spotify. You can follow your favorite podcast. So you don't miss an episode premium users can even download episodes to listen to offline wherever they are and you can easily share what you're listening to with all your friends and family. Following on Instagram if you haven't done so already be sure to download the Spotify app and search for AfterBuzz TV on Spotify or browse podcasts in the your library tab. Also, make sure you follow us you never miss an episode of AfterBuzz TV. Maybe I'm just trying to play Devil's Advocate because if not need that we need the gun to my head. I I think things are looking bad for loopy. I think we're only going to see him get worse and worse. I haven't for you my suspicion is that a lot of the sex-shaming were seen as probably coming from loopy as well be crazy time. We haven't had that episode. And from the trailer where they're someone's yelling straight at him, right? That looks like in a hotel room. Yeah, I don't think so. No, you're not gonna mess it up. I think that there was a bit of a mob mentality around Luke P that's sort of over played the drama of the situation and there's part of me that thinks a lot of these guys feel threatened by him. And even though they think they're being morally upstanding right here. There are subconsciously taking advantage of an opportunity to Dethrone the front-runner. I think when everyone in the house agrees that someone is a psychopath front-runner regardless, I would have gone to if I know everyone is around the game and that is if you're gonna throw your he'll marry now. Oh, yeah get rid of him. Get him out. Think about Garrett who won last season or Brian. None of them were hated by the house because they so what do they have the strongest connections? It's not about that. It's about her strongest connections with someone so manipulative and terrible to everyone else in the house like wouldn't that at bother anyone that's not being threatened its being like are you kidding me? This guy is the worst. What was the connection with Garrett wasn't as strong as right. Look P exact right, I would do that. If I were Garrett to that's not true. Ambassador of the season. I have friends that last season back there. Are you talking about Becca's Garrett? Yeah. What? Oh, there's something nice about this Keri. I'm Tom, but episode 4 is their connection. Yeah, but it's the way they added it, but I know they have to really behind the scenes. And they feel like really edit The Bachelorette more than the Bachelor because of how obvious it is who they're going to pick usually yeah. That's what I heard. The bachelor is a lot easier to edit because it can keep more in because they really are like, oh who I mean think about the first impression Rose thing right the girls. It's very obvious. So Gary, I think that was nearly the way it was edited. No, but I think people did know and what was that Cassie and Colton Cassie wasn't everyone's enemy, like people knew she wasn't ready for marriage and that was accurate actually including herself. She kind of became her. Most every besides Kayla night, but that's because of the way she didn't like who like cash it came careful to not like her though because like the like five villain, I guess the many women always play the game different but all they said was that she wasn't ready for marriage and they were right they weren't saying she was a bad person whereas Luke is being called out for being a psycho. So it's different. I don't know. I I would just love to hear what you guys think in the comments if you're as anti Luke as Christine and Renee or everyone in America. I am definitely not pro Luke. I just wanted to before I get attacked in the comments. I'm not broke. You're probably have no I born I just think he got is a much more interesting and less villainous villain than it. I think he's a very unique though. We haven't seen one like this in the show before and you guys could disagree with that's how I feel. Okay, we mentioned Mike j. I he lost points for me this episode. I did not think he handled that situation very upstanding way and he shows signs of an unhealthy. Healthy aggression to to say something like the only threat you've got here is me that was aggressive and it was it was subtext truly violent, right? I think he's been losing points from the first episode. That's definitely fair. And yeah, you're fighting a fight. That isn't yours. Yeah. Sorry, like let me clue Millennial f word. Yeah, it's weird because Mike has he's cool moments, but I'm like, wow, he's so personable. He seemed like some I could get along with really sweet and then he says like really really judgy things. Yeah Point. I've just like Me like maybe he's a little straight edge here. I mean it's hard because he's talking about loopy which I don't like so it's like I don't want to knock him necessarily because I'm like, yes, he is not a good guy. But the way you're going about it is only digging your hole deeper like Mike Johnson. Just let these boys figure it out. You stay here. She trusts you she picked you over cam just last week like you're in good graces with her. I don't think you need to go further. He even said it in his itm like their situations about Hannah that just make me feel like I need to step up and protect. Her it's like maybe if you're a man, yeah, but you're not you're not her just her man yet. And I don't think she needs you to protect her in the situation. I think she needs to decide if these guys are right for her and you need to be there to comfort her after her just like Pete Peter did right or Grant at the end of the night or knows Garrett. Sorry who came and gave her a gift. Yeah, lighten the mood. You know what I mean? That's your move. Not this. Well, let's talk about Garrett's moment during the group date. Then Renee soap team Garrett here. I like everything about Garrett except watching him kiss on screen because Honestly, I'm like oh, but you can learn how to kiss better. That's what I that's what I'm telling myself because I really think Garrett security and they could be good together. But like what is with the pulling in the quick pull out and this show really exposes if you can kiss like it's just HD cameras. Well Gary made some notes. He finally opened up and Hannah really wants to like Garrett but I he said I'm crushing on you hard. Okay, that's the Venom it is. Yes, that's his big leap. I don't know if he's necessarily the most emotionally in touch guy, which is okay. He seems more like that's why he hasn't gotten a one-on-one yet. Right, but I think you're it's probably a good dude. I just think Hannah and Garrett both know that on paper, they'd be great. But I don't ultimately see them running super far because I don't know. I just you know, I think what do you think Renee? I think you're going to have to wait for a one-on-one for them because a lot of the times like when we get these little moments, we don't see if they're truly will be a connection adjacent Artic kind of I feel like we didn't see the real Jake. Yeah. Because I genuinely cannot tell you whether or not that because I do think that's a good point. Like does she just want to like him because obviously I'm on paper they've been good together or is there a connection there that we will see on a one and one on one? Yeah, because he's super cute and I really like how he's handled himself thus far. So I'd like to see if that connections there speaking of connections Peter the pilot speaking of someone who knows how to kiss. They have some hot chemistry. It's funny because if I'm being super honest sometimes I I feel like Peter is kind of like a goofy little boy, but that's when they kiss. There's some some real chemistry. It's kind of hot. Yeah, I love you know, you know, I love Pete. Yeah pilot Pete. He's super cute. I think they definitely have good chemistry. I thought it if it were anyone else the moment when he asked her to be his girlfriend, I would have been cringing. Yes, but part of me was cringing party was like pee with that. I was kind of cheesy. Let's go. What worked what didn't work on you Christine. Um, it would have I'ma be honest. Yeah. Yeah exactly what really worked on her. She was like really that was a good move on. His part makes sense to me that I worked on her on her. She kind of lost her breath though. Like I feel like it's we actually don't see Hannah get we've seen her get her fuddled a couple times and that was one of them was when Pete asked to be her little boyfriend boyfriend. Along with the 14 other dudes along with the 14 other they kept bringing that up. It's not even like they can really pinpoint a day for later to member week for on The Bachelor. There's no date. This is just like a random, but I asked you to be my girlfriend. Mmm. I think it's because like lines are necessarily the game that I play. So it doesn't really when I see it happening it kind of skeeves me out. And do you know who's full of lines is Tyler. See? Ya Tyler and Tyler see and her went on a lobster fishing date Jessica Lee this Unused footage from The Deadliest Catch on Discovery Channel is what I had gathered. Um, I I can tell she really likes time. This is an example of someone who even if I'm not a huge fan, he seems great for Hannah. So I'm happy for them. I still think Tyler's kind of full of it. No, I believe Tyler does that mean so did ya skeptical Renee actually believe Tyler being vulnerable for not me me being vulnerable but comforting her because there's it said a lot about him where he I mean it could have been if he was insecure could have been a really awkward moment of like well, do you even want to like go on the date but he immediately started comforting her which in that moment. I think any of us, that's all we would want and I really like the way he was like, you're going to find your person. I like that. He wasn't like it's gonna be like, I'd like it to be me but he's not like it's going to be me at the end. Like he's like your trust me you're going to come out better at the end of this and you're going to find your person and it was just very sweet and I feel like after that moment when he kind of like put his walls down. I just like want to comfort. The story about his dad, I fully believe it that because it when it's something about like you're a mean God his dad who was sick watching The Bachelor with him and being like Hannah she like she seems like your girl and that's in your head and you have like you're like I get it and I believe I believe it. I genuinely believe that he wants to build that connection with Hannah and I do see it there and I think this was the first time Hannah starting to take Tyler seriously. I think she was expecting a like a comedy date where she was like, well it's going to be good for TV. I probably won't give him a rose. He's like, you know, and then she like started to feel something. She acknowledged that to that she was like I'll be honest. I wasn't I don't know what to think about you but it was refreshing. It definitely warmed me up to Tyler see as well. And I think that is I think that's more of his true nature than the grandi always kind of personality. He puts on in the lines because to the your point the story shared by his dad. I think he's the kind of guy who likes that moment to kind of step up and be the terek caretaker and that was a perfect moment with Hannah. Like honestly nailed it. Yeah, absolutely necessary. Yeah, because that's what we are saying. Sorry. I'm the different one here. I saw you go. I think the whole time the whole show he's been speaking in one-liners and I've been waiting to actually hear something from him other than like great sweater girl looks good on you and like stuff like that and then finally and I believed his story a hundred percent. It seemed completely sincere really endeared me to him and I thought he did a great job. I felt like 20% of the date he did that the rest of the date he was saying things like yeah, I can whip a little some some up for you because I'm a big-time griller and a big-time Chiller you're crushing that outfit and you're dangerous and black you need a man to fight take you off a ledge and I'm going to fight it's just hard I little by little give him a little bit. He even at least yeah earnestly says I'm a big-time girl or a big-time chill. I'm just like you can't live your life speaking and slogans from the late 60s. Like he really does though you talk. Like I don't think he's putting on an act like we know. Oh God John Paul Jones, like that's a bit of an act he knew he was coming on to play a character. We gotta we appreciate it. We know who his part to play. I I think this is Tyler and I stand by that I really think this is who he is. I think she knows I think she gets a kick out of it but knowing he also has like a deeper side row. He will you know, he has this relationship with his family the whole thing with his dad. Oh, he liked stopped for a second like hang on. This is like hard. There's there's more to Tyler, but I do think He's also being genuine. So it's like I'm like, yeah, maybe for me it would just be exhausting and so it's probably one of the best. Yeah, I just have to separate myself from whatever Hannah wants. You know, it just it gets under my skin and I really really appreciated him for telling that story. But if I'm being so so honest which is our job on this podcast, even though he told that story felt a little like he had scripted at a written it out the way here. I don't know what a little bit personally I disagree. I don't think he wanted to talk to him. Brand is not like let me get sympathy for that. Like he I think he genuinely was like, well, I'm going to tell you the story because I want you. I want her to feel better and also like know about me it felt real to me and it's going to feel something. I think he did a good job of just reading the room and staying in tune with her that like, I think he did give a lot of those one-liners, but that's just in his nature but also took the time to like bring his energy down to where she was at and I think that's important. Yeah. I wish I have agreed with you guys. Another thing I look for is the ratio of of talking to listening. And he really talks a lot more than he listens even like he kept going on and on and he's like and I'm here and if there's a ledge I'll be there and we'll go to the Mountaintop to get and at the mountain top. We will sing together we can do this and I just was like, I don't I don't know. I hope you're the kind of person who also listens and doesn't just the human motivational poster. Yeah, there's something that I don't know and I that's fair either way. That's just how I feel and I think he's going far and I don't know it's just maybe not to my taste. They did go see Jake Owen and the audience knew every word they say, This felt like a good on the spectrum of awkward one-on-one concerts this felt like it was on the less awkward and so hundred percent actory. This is when I said, it's moments like these that make me feel single like whenever I feel like oh, yeah, I'm alone in life. It's when like if there's a true Connection in this was one of the moments I thought was super cute. Definitely what we do have some news to get to so let's go ahead and move on. Well, thanks for the Q. Obviously we've been talking a lot about Luke. HP and his intentions and he's very well aware of the national conversation happening around him. He is the biggest villain thus far on the series. He actually posted on Instagram a selfie of him and Hannah on the show and he addressed everyone's concerns in the captions. I'm going to try and read through it really quick says I want to just address the elephant in the room here really quick. First of all, I want you all to know how hard it is for being a to watch myself back this season. Thus far regardless of what is aired and if Alabama Hannah and I are together my behavior in all situations has been and will continue. You to be exposed I have learned a lot and I'm continuing to learn about my flaws as a man. I'm the first to admit. I'm far from perfect. This journey has given me a great opportunity to grow and mature as a man for that. I am grateful and he thanks everyone for being on this journey and learning from his mistakes with him. So look at Renee this podcast listener you win do we think you on base sauce? It is publicist be like listen Luke. He either he won. I thought now I think he might have one you get that side. I don't I think he's going home soon. You think so. I think that there's one big blowup left for us to see and I think he's getting ahead of us right now. Absolutely second piece of news is Tyler G. Finally address slash not address the rumors about his mysterious exit from the show. If you guys have been keeping up with me I posted on my Twitter a link to a Reddit thread that was exposed claiming that he was a misogynist and outlined a very big blowup. Fight that he had with an ex that resulted in him spitting on her and leaving her. So Tyler spoke to her finer refinery29 and basically said addressing totally said unsubstantial has room. Uh, sorry. I'm a start that over addressing totally unsubstantiated rumors posted to Reddit from an anonymous account seems imprudent. I feel that even addressing them gives them some sort of attention, but I can find you I continue to have faith in my journey and purpose for everything that's happened to me in life goes on to say that he's a good guy and that the rumors have no merit. So yeah because he's relevant enough for someone to go on read it and make an account to bash him. I mean, you're gone already got forgotten about you. And the last piece of Bachelor news is Raven Gates and Adam got schlock gottschalk are engaged. So an Aryan Lord had their baby do we talked about that last week as they welcome their baby girl alessi now? I'm glad we're ending on that news because the tea is hot today you guys normally we do are tweeting for the right reasons second right now, but we do not have internet so we will not be doing that tonight. Each of us will retweet a bad shirt we love and we would love you guys to hop on there quick predictions Luke P. Here's our prediction for the week. AfterBuzz TV. Let me know look P loukas both going home next episode. Neither going home next episode. Luke s only going home next episode Luke P only going home next episode. I think neither of them. Okay neither of them. Lucas goes home Lucas goes home. I think. All right. We mentioned our Twitter's earlier guys are retweeting things and if you want to see what we did retweet and talk to us and engage with us. We would love it. If you guys could do that. You will do that for me at my Twitter, which is Jeffrey see Graham and you can do that for me on Twitter at Christine being with three. He's hit me anywhere at Mike feeling and you guys can follow me on Instagram and on Twitter at Renee Ariel and on YouTube at Renee Ariel, then once again guys, we apologize at the chat wasn't here tonight. It'll be bad. Next week we did miss you guys but comments down below because we're always in those comments and y'all have just as many as opinions as we do and we love you for it. So we'll see you next week here on The Bachelorette after show and thanks for tuning in that our founder Keven undergaro and me Maria Menounos would like to thank you for tuning in to AfterBuzz TV. Remember, we're not just the first we're the biggest in the world and we're the only destination for all your favorite TV shows whatever you crave. We've got it. So go to AfterBuzz tv.com Buzz ya later If you described herein are those of the hotel and do not necessarily reflect the views of AfterBuzz TV reporters are prettier.
 2019s long-awaited Sequel to Oscar winner Kramer versus Kramer - Luke versus Luke - got Lit. Also Kevin wears a cast from Old-Timey Europe. Also Jed tells us what we knew all along, he’s in it for the fame… But also for Hannah? Jeff Graham, Christine Alexis, Mike Theiling, and Renee Ariel, have all of your thoughts here on the bachelorette after show! The Bachelorette After Show: Which of the men will get the final rose? On THE BACHELORETTE AFTER SHOW we’ll fill you in on everything that happens on and off camera on the hit ABC series. Plus be bringing your favorite cast members our panel. Tune in for reviews, recaps and in-depth discussions of the latest episodes’ group dates, one on one dates, the squabbles and fights AND bonus off-season content like news updates happening in Bachelor nation. ABOUT THE BACHELORETTE: Becca Kufrin believed she had found love with Arie Luyendyk Jr. on "The Bachelor," but when the race car driver changed his mind and broke her heart so he could reunite with runner-up Lauren Burnham, the humble girl next door from Minnesota resolved not to let the heart-wrenching breakup hold her back. When the 27-year-old publicist isn't making a splash at the boutique public relations agency where she works or planning her next overseas trip, she can be found at home hosting dinner parties for her friends. She hopes to find a man who shares her firm set of Midwest values and who is actually ready to commit to her on her terms. ---   This episode is sponsored by  · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. 