Hey guys, welcome to the 20th episode of The Learning podcast. And we're on sure is a single brand podcast dedicated to learning something new from every single guest on this show. And today. I have a friend I reached out on LinkedIn. Her name is Lauren Lauren. Thanks so much for making the way all the way to the east of Singapore Mexican if reason no problem. It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you so much. The reason why I actually reached out to Lauren because Lauren specialization is in human resource and for my perspective as a young graduate, You ate right human resource to be honest wasn't a very sexy thing. But now that I've started working in Industry write to me or at least I'm brainwashed by the vaynermedia culture in general, whereby it's very human Centric all those kind of stuff human resource is a very wide spectrum. Like it's a very broad term, right and the university graduates. It's not sexy but I think that going back to him it being more practical in a walking like she's extremely important. I've been in companies where I felt that I wasn't to taken care of not that I think Perhaps it's a responsibility for each other. Take care of the employees. I think that's just one small subset, but I think Lord here because she consults and how clients are in the SME industry. Yeah, whereby you build the big rock of hitch our practices culture. I'm not exactly honestly sure exactly what you do, but I think that having this conversation of learning from you would be interesting because HR is not sexy, but it's essential and I think that for anyone out there listening whether if you You are aspiring entrepreneur or whether we're starting on business or whether if you are an existing person who owns a business right? Perhaps there's a thing or two that you can learn from Lauren who has been in this industry for quite a while. Yep. So there's the first one is the second reason actually, why are the second theme or question now like to ask Lauren is her journey in terms of being a solopreneur sure. So right now she's at a station about she's working for yourself if a couple of smaller things, but things are not too big as well. So I think like when you want to have a big business It's very different from being a solopreneur. So I just like to ask how your experience has been like being a sort of green or if there is no reason why you chose like solar panel entrepreneurship room is bigger in scale. But of course our like to have this very interesting topics that we can talk about related to these two. Yeah Lauren for those listeners that don't know who you are going to give a quick introduction of what you do. Sure. So hi everybody, I'm Lauren Ang from Singapore born bred Singaporean. What I do is I do a few different things. I used to be in the HR copper ore from the bank from there after a while. We'll talk about the story data, but bit more about what I do right now actually run an online jobs people store. God came to a.com. Yes. This is totally like off the charts are different. So I ran that together with the business partner. I run my own HR Consulting firm transform recreate so that one I actually do Consulting for smes. So I do things like system. Implementations for them. I look at processes. I also do some for referral basis. Like, you know, there's some times x clicks who let me know that there are some sports small Consulting gig. I think I don't know that Consulting Geeks are so I did Consulting for one of the Canadian banks in Singapore as well. So it wasn't like a like a friendship, you know recommendation busy. So there was how like this is starting started to grow a little bit from there. Yeah, and why I do is also hate hunting a little bit. I'm actually more like an active on here hunting now, so So because the markets not very good at that. So I think I'll go with now bit more busy now because I'm actually based in Houston the clients office to which she help him manage certain things first question. What is hey Char? Okay, he tries actually Human Resources, right? So basically how resourceful you are is actually how successful you will be. It's not about the resources is how the resource for you up, okay? I never studied HR. So if you ask me what is the difference of like Theory versus practical? I won't know. I actually did psychology in uni going to HR was not something I wanted. It was just like a to Sofia and her got into it. So I was lucky to get into it. Why exactly is he tries? It's from is it entire whole spectrum of things from you? Even before you enter into the company meaning from you gaining some more interest in the company? So it's you know the stage where we call it. Fruit marketing right now. So it's like you know how you attracted to this company how much how exactly do you keep coming back to apply for the same company? Okay. Yeah. So how interested in English keeping of potential employees. Alright, so the opportunity of the marketing so that one didn't know what else so it's it's not entirely fully into that by actually so Talent acquisition. So Talent acquisition is of course what everybody knows okay, um application, you know interviews and all these things and then they are flowing Onboarding. So that's where you actually become a employee employee. And of course what happens you need to have leave you need to have like celery payroll bonus and then another benefits Insurance la la la so all these things will come into your entire employee life cycle and then you know, how how do you how do you get remunerated? Like is that kpi? How's the cake by being determine its type to company goes so who writes the committee goes? What happens? How is it being cascaded and then comes training? So training is also part of HR. So what exactly are you what exactly are you lacking in your job? So is there a training needs analysis? Is there a need for you to go for more causes? Do you need to change your job role? Do you need to have a discussion with the whole entire team to look at what the entire team is doing right now is the job scope still relevant. Yeah, so that all falls on the training and development and thereafter if you leave the company and of course, there's off-boarding which goes back to shatter, heuh, our shared services in. Is it is a very big Spectrum. So usually we talk about a child will probably pop them into like five major key points. So that will be recruitment. They'll be shared services. There will be compensation and benefits training and development. So overarching theme of them will be business partners. So business partners will work with the business. You need to take care of all these small little things. Okay? Yeah. Do you specialize in any of no, I didn't know I didn't but right now for a client. It's do do the whole Spectrum. I still do I still do so, I'm pretty open. Okay, so I'll sort of thing about the story is that I'm lucky. I actually when I was in the bank I met a very very nice boss who actually gave me a lot of opportunities. So she was the head of HR then I was only just 24 25 years old. So this no no that was my that was my first job there John radio because I thought job. Yeah, so she actually asked me to become 50% of her personal. What was that called pa pa personalized? And then the other 50% was to do everything else in the department. Why should this a lot? That's right shit as we're dying during your time at the which bank SMBC Sumitomo mitsui. How is it like working there? Actually, I like it because the structure is very the a lot of structures that are being put in place already. So you just have to run and we feel like I saw PS and you follow someone actually a very structured person. So for my experience in a bank you are you had an in-depth understanding inaudible. These several categories right then it's dead. So do you try to implement all these kind of pillars of HR and smes or how do we go about what what do you do with smes like the company didn't say that. I need some and sit down with them. I need to talk to the boss who usually is the main decision maker if there is a heater irradiation is to be involved because I don't like to change things that people are involved in okay. I mean you would like it, right if they one day somebody came in and change our jobs when you didn't know anything about it. So I would usually engage these two major stakeholders first. I need to talk to them and understand what exactly they won. This usually sometimes what the boss wants is not what he tries capable of doing. Okay. So we need to align that we need to make them both aware of what's capability versus what is expectation and then we will see what we can do from there because out of all these things that spoke about those five major spectrums like, you know specializations we call of each are not everything is applicable in SME. Celine SME, it's probably up to typically up to about a hundred headcount and then you know, then you have different departments doing different things. Not everybody can have a full system like a bank that has no thousand over employees are like structures of salt. So they really need to pick and choose and see what they can do and what it cannot do. So that's where I come in to have a chat with them understand what they want. And if it's something that I can help them with I'll be happy to do it for them. Where are the starting points is a stopping point. Of leading questions for you first asked for Lexi aligning the HR come HR department and the boss sure. So it really depends on what exactly is happening right now was in issue hence this conversation was needed. So if there was then what was what was it? We have to discuss about that. Well, it's currently that's happening. For example, if they had very high attrition rates. So which means that a lot of people like tendering and no not staying not past one year. Okay, what-what exactly. Why is it because if somebody toxic in the team because if you have let's say you have 15 employees. He's can imagine if I've goes away every year. Yeah, it's very painful this but Sheba said yeah it and then your replacement and the time that your HR takes to hire and replace there's a lot of you know, like there's a lot of psycho that they have to go through because you know every employee the on-boarding and off-boarding. It has to be systematic because he try and accounting two major functions that are most susceptible to auditing you need to keep things. Right, right, and of course it it how do I say it? Actually affects people's livelihoods. Yes, so it's money-related is highly sensitive. So it's it's if there's anything that you need to pay most attention to as a SME or even any company it's money. So an inhuman right if you without these two things you can make a company work at all. Yeah. So these are the two major things that you need to take care of. So I usually Target these two questions in us, but because my specializations in hi in terms of Consulting, so I usually talk to them to find out what what exactly is lacking and then we'll steal from their experience. What is most commonly like in your clients? They make a lot of so it's about how how well equipped the the managers are also. Yeah. It's actually in terms of like he trying limitation. Everybody can do it. Okay. It's very straightforward. Like if they're also system just Implement if we was a sop just do it but a lot of people don't know how to be managers. Yeah. So like that would be things like micromanaging. Everything is like stepping on the people's toes and oh, yes it really Is from the fact that many just don't know how to be many just they don't know how to manage somebody else because they have all along been an employee. They've been made by somebody else suddenly. They got this promotion suddenly. They need to assume the role of a manager by without proper training. They're just somebody who bosses on someone else but not but not a manager Percy like performance manager. Like, how do you exactly make sure that somebody who's reporting to you is learning something in the journey. So there's something we need to be very careful of I'm not perfect in that so I'm also still in New York. Bye but it's really the Journey of how you see it. She a lot of people they quit because of their bosses. Yes, not the big boss by the one directly managing them. Yeah, so so that's actually a very big issue. So when it comes to let's say teaching managers how to be managers right? There is like a workshop thing like he's got this to me. It's like very healthy very difficult. Let's see if I change them either one Workshop, but not possible gradual process. What? What is this gradual process? Okay, I don't. It personally I don't do it up but I've got friends who run consultancy firms who specialize in training managers. Okay. So what they do is they'll come in with a workshop. Let's say they have a class of 20 new managers newly promoted for example, and they'll conduct class. The class would go on for probably a one day workshop and on the week, maybe one week later. They do another one. They will have probably one to one coaching sessions with them for the next one month to you know, see how they're managing as a new manager and then in the end they were closed off the entire thing. So it's like a a two-month prolonged training but you know on a small bite sized space is just to check in after that because you're right. It's something that you cannot learn overnight. It's not like coding like, you know, it's a hard skill you learn and then you can apply it know it's it's very soft skills right art because it's human. Yeah a site frog that's the Outsourcing this training to your Consulting friends, right? What are the kind of things do you Outsource? And because I'm trying to get like a clear picture of exactly what you do what you do is really aligning. Let's say the needs of the company me. The clients and zombie grey client front-facing I wanted things we all sauce in your your in your business. Okay, so that's well, I don't do exactly a lot of clients. So I'm very picky with them. Yeah also, so when a client comes if it's something that I feel that it's out of school and something that means a solopreneur cannot handle I would reject them. Okay. So usually you'll find somebody else usually the cases that come in are those that I can handle and those that I feel like it's not too big because I cannot handle For example, five times 100 employee. Yes Emmys and I don't want to do that because our dying school. So I'm very picky with my clients. Usually a my ideal clients are those that are under 20 account. So it's easier and because usually four sizes are under 20, the boss has the major sea and they want their very clear what they want. So it's actually love working with the business owner to see what exactly they want. So a lot of coaching with the business owner also asking them, you know, checking them what exactly they want. They tell me that this is go. I'll tell them how he track and aligned It how long is the time duration do you overcome because right now I'm about viewer sending some messages. You are based in the client, right? Yeah. Is there a duration or is it something like a long term in the cuz sometimes I see people like Freelancers Veena media has Freelancers as well. They are attached to the company for like four months and then they leave that was the situation like okay. Is it like okay by the end of four months, I will do this. This is this is and Ibaka. Is it a quick ranging? You have like a one year? Our food is there like a permanent freelance thing. So it depends on what they need. So for example, one of my friends who set up her own business, so that was less than five head count. So I did was a proposal to set up things properly and make sure it runs properly so that she can take over becoming the HR manager. So I will no longer be needed after six months for example, so I drew up something for her because she wants to be the one who manages her business. I want to be the one who teaches her how to do it because there is this is not rocket. Anyway is is hope it's a system exactly. So when when when she needs anything now, she just comes back to me and say yeah, I've got this question, you know, can you help me with it? Usually I don't charge. I mean it's just a question or two. No, I'm fine with it. So what I do with oh, but I did with her say she had their six-month contract with her. So I told her that certain Milestones that will meet will Implement certain systems will Implement certain processes. This is what will happen. And you know, you pay me once this mouse has been he's just like project management. Okay, so and then but I'm the one who's drawing up all the Milestones that will be hit. And then once it's done, we're done, but of course the real issue is still there because in the end if they use a system, for example, I because I'm also a reseller for payroll system. So if she's reseller for POS it you are recommending appearances. Yes, exactly. So those that you know with less than 50 headcount you can actually don't have to worry so much about calculation because actually there's a lot of things to do with payroll calculations and it's headache you give me a 101 like what what what what it is like OT has different calculation. Okay, like if your salary is Above and below a certain amount OT cognitions different every manual be so called daily salaries and she different based on working days. So all these things and if you know pay leave got to deduct from the previous amount of do you do that from Carmen and all these things? It has to have a sister-in-law not the business of the world I calculating. Yeah, you make all these policies were at Titus a like. Yeah. So the black/white, okay. So a lot of times it involves setting up a stuffed animal like a heat Handbook for the company. So everybody sees all like for example, I'm a manager. I have 15 days of leaf. Like I'm an executive of ten days of leave is very clear-cut everybody knows so there's no politics like hey, how come you got five more days than me. You don't have nothing because in small companies is very prone to happening in the managers that I get you think one day of learning on my own those kind of things. You shouldn't be it shouldn't be happening. I mean, of course if that's coming from the big boss final I mean, this is Big Boss company, right? But like usually the smaller managers will try to make some things. And that's why all that happiness starts from right now. The the most bottom layer. Yeah. Can you tell me of a story right? It's like the most Jose memorable. I'm not sure because if you're allowed to divulge information about a class of a story that strikes out to you that wow, this car this business really needs help that he shot because it's in like total mess and everything like the yeah. I just read them in story of something. That was so bad. But yet it's something that you fix. He became very okay lucky for me. I haven't I haven't bumped into something. That was so bad. Oh, yeah. Yeah most of the time what's that? What is bad? Hey char. What is Betty Jo? Okay, I feel that but H is 0 documentation 0 process. Okay, that is bad the okay. That's that's that is that's bad enough. There's been enough so I haven't really seen one that's gone beyond that because you have to have some form of documentation when you're hiring somebody right at least got to have the full copy of the ICF to have them signed application form have some fun like this. It's you know, it's just as a peafowl, you know, we call it personal foul right to just keep Gather so I think coming here doesn't have documentation. It's you yeah, good luck. Okay. Okay. So that's number one. Yeah, I feel that. It's I mean, it's painful not even for the Consulting is coming in is painful for people who are working there as well, which means that they don't even bother to have proper setups for documentation which which you need to think about whether it's company to stay with I feel ya okay because personally I have working at companies if no documentation, and it gives me it's many dodgy, right? Right, it's not about I'm getting my salary on time. And yeah, small things like do I have off days? Why working hours? I don't you don't know well so that this list but you haven't had such experiences it no, I'm very picky. I'm very picky with clients actually so lucky for me. They haven't come to me all you pick clients. Okay. So actually my business model is purely on retro. I don't really do it with this - I don't really like go out and tell people I'm a consultancy firm. I do this that I don't I just go out. I mean as usual go for networking sessions. I meet people I'll show them what they do is they need my help. They come to me and most of the time that process itself filters out a lot of all these dodgy companies already. Yeah, would you say in your opinion? You don't have any like their clients? No, no. No. No, I didn't want time right how many clients would you need to be self-sustaining in your being being being a consultant? Okay, I think consult on is Is a it's a glamorous name. It seems to me like you're you are consulted. Right? No, I hate to use that word. I hate to use that word. But the reason why it's been called Casa this is because his consultancy I usually don't like to tell people I'm a consultant but I feel like Consultants are very crappy HDD, you know sometimes maybe I've worked with some in my past corporate life. So I know I'm not naming anything but I just feel like it's I rather use it as a problem solver. So I go into the company to have yourself a chart problems and once I'm done with it, I'm Yeah, so I like to use that to more so he's like a cobra title a little bit more. Why do you think like, why do you have that negative? Like is it true your corporate experience? Yeah, they don't solve your problem or the charge too much or like okay. I think the charging thing is it's not the same conversation because it's value-driven. Yes. Yeah, and of course, it's the I mean, you know how Consultants work right? They will charge you based on. How well do you think you can pay that's one of the ways that the Chinese response based pricing because they were talking you know what exactly exactly so for me. I'm not going down that road. I'm not going down the price War as well. So usually when you come to me, I'll tell them this is the price if you want to do it then do it if you don't go and find somebody else so you don't do it based on value-based pricing. No, I actually am quite I'm quite flat we're focusing. So I was a flat typical. I mean, I do some more adjustments you did the ones I think I just passed him - he ran. But we're not isn't it? Doesn't it seem like lucrative to you it's lucrative. But is it worth my time if if a company is is able to pay but I know that they have got a lot of shit stories that I have to clear. Then I'm not interested in working with them because first of all if they'd gotten to that stage where there's a lot of shit internal processes must be horrible and the people do what we found not very pleasant now, yeah, so that's that's one of my filtering processes as well. I said for managers. How often do you you think that the problem lies with the bosses care to share a bit more like explain a little about the question because we are very picky with clients. Right? Look. I'm not picky lime just a bit more particular with who I work with Okay, I think in the end the most important thing is I need to feel that these people are genuine and sincere people that just some people who want to get a consultant in and you know use the Consultants name to get away with certain things and that's what not believe it or not. Yeah. That's not what I'm for. I'm actually in those. Class I've actually soft are those who I I don't know them personally or I actually were being recommended to them by somebody else. I know and trust and Trust so and I know that the business is legit. They've been doing well for what I'll do a lot of research on the company before I actually go and have a chat with them teach them what I can do for them. Other than that, I'm actually really like I don't come to me so that's why I mean by picky because I prefer to work with people. I mean, I think as a solopreneur right you need to be very particular with the kind of time you spend With the clients there are some clients who can pay you very well, but they give you a lot of headache and is it called it? Yes, what about the weekend? It's about like small little things that you ask them to do it because okay, I think just to sell your tone straight Consultants don't do everything. We need people inside the company to be available and capable then we can compliment you buy into the correct, correct? So it's not like you get confident in confident that everything for you know, yeah, you need to have people for example like the X-Men that I was with. We wanted to do a digitization of like the systems. So we got a consultant to come in and Implement that trainers and make sure that we are capable and well of running then they go off so that's why our consultant does. Okay. Yeah, so I think in that light makes you understand a bit better. So that's why do I need to make sure that internally they have people to be able and capable of running whatever I want to implement that it's in line with the boss's idea. Then I will do it. Oh, yeah, so it's not like the the tries to expert This but you don't do the actual crack work I do and I tell them to set up everything. I yeah set up and then I discussed with them correct and Mickey Mickey easy for them. Basically. There is a reason why they've been doing things wrong or doing things difficult the whole time because they don't know. What's the better way, right? So what I do is I come in and I suggest a better way for them. Now. This is how we can do this. Do you think this is good if it's good, let's implement this and then, you know, you will become the SOP and no one's there self-running and I will go away that that's how they improve and become better. So so after I leave and at a certain stage, they say there are 28 Corner when they grow 288 count that set of SOB cannot work anymore because it cannot handle that kind of head count anymore. So so they need to review and look at it and how can the business actually changed to accommodate that growth? Because eventually nobody wants to get started 88 car, right? If you want to grow as a business, you need to go bigger faster and the more you change the more you need to change processes underlying right? So that's where the the concert then she comes in gives you advice based on what they've seen what Market actually does and then you know, you make changes that it's to the company itself, of course Market practices. Everybody wants to know right but in the end, it's just Market practice. You can be special. For example, there's a certain company that client. I used to have she has got seven days of birthday leave my because both dearly. Yeah, so because she has some likes to she has her likes to celebrate home birthday with my friends and she wants to take a break on her birthday. So she thought you know, I I've got employees. I was just implement the same thing for them. Something nice enough. Yeah, so so it's not like he tries no strictly or with the follow Mo M standards, you do this. Yes, you have all I'm a mime standards. That's the minimum. You have to follow but you can do a little bit more if you feel a bit more human with incident expects like for her birthday leaf for some of them they are like, okay. I don't want to give Lexi cash. I do. I found the entire insurance that they need to do. And other than that, you know, I need to give them two hundred dollars per month. Sorry per year to do something on their own and they just came back from Another one in the client that I used to suffer. She she has her own Julie Jewel jewelry line. Oh my God. Yeah. So what she does is she creates like masterpieces for clients custom pieces. So she tells her employees like Opperman you get $80 credit event change forever ringing whatever you're doing. You want girl went through a lot of you know benefits come in different sizes and shapes and it's not just what we see in Copper or smes. She has a Lot of things to play with yeah for me experience, right when it comes to being generous is almost like little benefits. Right would you say that? Is there a difference between how Singapore on companies give such benefits versus private International clients that you have. Is there a difference or a difference? I guess it'd be something I think it's still based on individual. But of course there is a pause La Singapore it I don't know. I always have this calculating or yeah, I got it distorted singing. This is my perception about from experience. Is there a big difference when it comes to all these kind of little hitch our welfare or practices? From what I've seen the actually like to have a variety for smes that are for example like that Julie line. She wants to do things a little bit more different. So she she she told me one day she was like, you know, I wanted to be a bit more special and then like this this employee. He would regret leaving me. Oh right this exactly sir something like that. Like, you know, I want them to feel the pinch way if they leave me because the benefit is good, you know in that sense. So it's part of her employee retention plan that maybe she wants to do certain things. So I think it's really dependent about of course. It depends on the budget that they have. I mean International companies, you know, we all do budgeting on a yearly basis. So we got a budget for certain things and when I was back in the team in the X bang, it's not Easy to implement a new reward for employees at a such a large. Yeah, cuz there was about I think about 900 local employees and there were about 600 I think was it 600 about 500. So I think I think at the father he calls about 1.2 1.3. I can remember buying more than one k. So it was very difficult to implement something because you can't take it lightly everybody. Was that calling y'all direct line if you just bought your phone because if you calling me asking you about your friend things, so that was just This small little thing that I did for my boss that part time we were looking at corporate plants. So from plants that part time there were only three major competitors in the market. So I looked for them. And I said, like look I've got I've got a company of like one point something came in Council. What's the what's the plan that you can give it to me? Those are the corporate plan for all these employees. So they came back and gave us a few quotes. So we picked and chose. I mean we took them all three and then we just collected in an email and then we did a Blog Entire bang the moment. The email was sent out. My phone started ringing nonstop me. Everybody start asking me it was this was this was this so a lot of education has to go into even implementing benefits. Yeah. People are very concerned about new benefits. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I also saw I was on the other side with it. So I'm very careful when I'm doing like SME benefits implementation. Also, I will always ask them. First of all, can you handle it because the stress is going to come in? For example, I heard $80 per employee per month then you do a multiplication. Option and you get the and no budget, but you do have the excess per year to be able to supplement that if you ask me if Singaporean companies are bit more now. I think it's very boss dependent variables dependent. Yeah. Those are what we've our po Kee. I mean in the end it's a it's a it's a it's a plus or minus thing some things they do a bit more some things they cut back a little so the more important thing is how well educating your employees on it. The reason why you're doing it like saw them going to combat a my friend in the other thumb XX from go. May these are leave why we only got XX these you know, so these things you cannot compare because maybe the nature is different. You are working at 60 week that working at five days a week. So you've got more they've got less or difficult industry as well. Exactly. So it's not like it's, you know, like you stupid off just like that, you know one shot it's not possible. We previously talked about hockey chili. You see my concession. He's alright tell me about it. A lot of spreadsheets everything right? What's the misconceptions about HR like my don't want me to essentially I think so. He's happy but didn't do anything right away. I don't think that is true. Okay. So for all the HR people out there who's been getting all these your HR? I know a lot of people will say these things to his own people and like he's only the words so long I was me there's tons of things to do like there's a lot of reporting. There's a lot of making sure documentation sarkar. Which is why I say if a company doesn't have proper documentation, even on thi is a very big problem because how do you account for the person for example in a PDF file that must be basic things like that? So the people the personal foul so P far I saw in the people there must be a lot of contracts between the employee and the company if not, what basis is this person working as right and only things are PNC. So all these files are kept under lock and key to what I worked in last time in order forms that were with I was with and although there's a lot of digital ization of all these files but in the end it's very important our confidential stuff. So you've got to keep it and then the room and then HR people usually see in the room because why all the things that handle are very confidential you wouldn't want some your ex color your teammate to be walking past each other and seeing your bonus number. Yeah. How would you like it? Right? So yeah, so things like that and you know, for example Peak periods for bonus generation and for what I did was a regional role. So bonus generation was different for every country that hand. So I was doing the Apec region. So for who good to three months, I was busy with bonus all looking around bonuses. All right, so you're the one that's good. Right first thing first thing the trigger must be right. So did that form go to the correct manager and it is the manager of performance manager is the person the compensation manager. We want so Majors right managers are very loose them. Yes, so manager can can look after your performance, but not The Sara Lee dictate your compensation. So when it comes to a bonus period so that for must go to a composition manager. Oh, there's a difference and international set up right? There are some some Majors who are based abroad. So for example, there was this special team that I was handling in Singapore their bosses were all over the world one was in Japan and I was in Hong Kong and other words Somewhere else coming by so you got to make sure that they receive the form if they can receive the phone on the East and that we had they need to print out the spreadsheet stamp it and then send it back to us and then we will keep back in and then you know do everything else. So there's a lot of things to be done this pecking because everybody thinks that bonus is just bonus La the macro skilled in the so much math going because even before bonuses being declared first of all, how did the company perform was that even a budget or stay even a bonus Buddha is enough? To be formed up to to have a bonus fun pool. Yes. Yeah, and how is this bonus fun? Pool going to be distributed across the entire company company or set up Percy and what kind of Matrix are giving to everybody so everybody has a kpi, right? So that's where your perform your training and performance comes in. So if you are a top performer, for example, then they say Okay top performer is this range based on your copper ring this range? What is the percentage? You should be getting is it correct? Let's say for example if your if you are. Performer in your carpet ring. You can only get up to 20% but your compensation manager give you 50% because the compensation manager likes you for example, but cannot what so how and then house policies I please correct. So we are the one more enduring it at back end and we have to see live every day is like stock market numbers will come in and you've got to keep looking at it every day because bonus you get sensitivity one. They want updates you want to know whether you passed a budget or not if they need to request for more from head office or every day. That's very dependent on I mean, it doesn't happen all the time. But most of the time we actually don't use that land have funding so just that you know, they'll be some ad hoc promotions that will happen throughout the year so it can come from the same fiscal year. Sorry Financial year pool. Yes, why solo partnership over building and scaling a business to have like multiple employees big office many people why I never envisioned it never ever should never in fact my my stepping into Business, whoa is purely incident coincidental incidental accidental? Whatever it is. It's just not planned. I in fact was very normal employee. I was just very lucky to have them into the boss who gave me a lot of opportunities, but actually I was very happy with that role because I get to learn a lot of different things. I was fine. There was a career path that was being very clear. Yeah. I mean everything was plot outlines of my okay, maybe another few more years and another promotion what's happening? It was rather clear cut with her like that. Opportunities that she planned out from yours already there. I could see clearly ready. It's just that all things in life happens. So about four years back. What happened was when I was still with SMBC. I got promoted at work done heart for it. I worked pretty damn hard for it with that boss. I had to hit. First of all, I think bosses they have a lot of things to settle on hand with Senior Management. Yes, so things like meeting CEO and because hamburger Was always there will always be somebody on top of you because it's a corporate setting so for her even being ahead of each other. She had a lot of issues to handle. So at about the time when I was supporting her in the PA staff, right? I could actually see how she communicated with the senior management and that was where I learn a bit about like, yeah like how to deal with the c-suite people because they're not exactly easy to do it. You know what I mean? Right? Yeah. So but a lucky thing is because she's really taking care of me very well. So She gave me the opportunity to talk to them pitch them and that's what I remember. There was management people are supposed to bring to one of the directors of the bank and everyone was holding a piece of paper was trembling as I was traveling outside the office and then the secretary's because we have to be on very closely with the secretaries of find out their schedules and all these so they're like, hey Lauren relaxa, I also control. Yeah. I need to get a people stand. Okay that one I mean all this more experiences build up to all these Courage to right now. Maybe they're to talk to somebody who maybe is a decision-maker. Yeah. Yeah, so exactly why I decided to move out was because I work done heart for a promotion. I got promoted about four years back when I was in corporate the same day. I got promoted my elder sister passed away so we can get it. Yeah. Yeah. She was 35 when she passed on so that kind of drop me into a different wall entirely because the day before she She passed away. She was still texting me. She said hey, you're getting a promotion tomorrow. Let's a customer promotions on a Friday. I think I remember quite clearly if I'm not wrong Friday or Saturday come remember first of July. I remember it. So she texted me the day before he said, hey, let's have like a crab Feast at your house on Saturday. But there I was Saturday kneeling beside her coffin burning Joss paper for her. So I really felt that life was something that you know, you can't predict and you need to take each day at you know, as you do it. Yes each day. Do your best because you really won't know. When's the moment you stop breathing for her. She really passed on so suddenly that nobody else actually knew how to react. So we my second sister and I have to break the news to the kids had to you know, after that entire family my entire household had to change the way we did things. Yeah, because the the places we live. I really far apart that yeah. I'm in the west and she's her house is in Northeast. So even if I speed driver it was maybe the most is bad. You know dry very quickly. It takes 40 minutes for me to get to the other house. Yes. So it's very far and wide apart time when she passed on my nephews and niece. They are very young one with seven twelve fourteen. So they were going through this stage of growing up and my brother-in-law is a businessman. So it's very busy and most of the time he is flying around and busy with what so the main category of the kids were my sister. So the family as a whole had to change and even for me when I could commit 9 a.m. To 11:00 p.m. What I was back in the bank Um, it was very difficult for me to go back to work after she passed on cuz there was just a lot of things that has to be done in terms of my schedule. So I was one of those people who who were rich on the dart line. I am is my m so I reach at night and then our if I can leave on a dock that they are leave but if I have to OT that needs 10 or 11 or whatever, so I'm okay. I'm accountable. So who doesn't mind working putting in the hours, but the my new my new life. Then allow me to have that anymore how to take on additional responsibilities. Exactly. I had to I had to rush over to my little sister's house to just do after my kid my kid. My niece's things. Yes, barely, you know at the very letter you're just to make sure that my right and Lord knows that there is this thing happening and you know whole family has to work together as a team all over again. So that really couldn't couldn't go on and I decided that you know, I think it was about half a year later. I decided to quit entirely because I didn't wait for my boy. - I knew my figure it because I was in each other right? I said no my own borders flower. So like we get to see our own spreadsheet because no choice of who has not do my phone. So I really saw the figure and I was laughs. Okay. Neela aside just tender and I left in that sense this experience. You this experience? Also motivated you or is this is the reason why this is why yeah exactly why but it was the process of moving out there. I've decided that you know, it's really not too bad idea to do something for myself because my sister didn't have the chance anymore to do something for herself. So why not that now that I can see things clearly that time is definite I can do something different and not just run by the red line. I mean, I was I was happy where I was at the bank, but it After a while, it just got stagnant because like I mentioned the Paw for so clearly that, you know after few years ago another promotion. And in fact, in fact, they didn't allow for a second promotion. So I had to wait maybe two more years for another promotion, but then I stepped back and think like it's that really what I want because I I'm losing time with my parents as they are growing old and at that rate I was working 9:00 to 11:00. I was very afraid. No, I was very afraid that my mother would lose another daughter. Oh legit because at times you call me at 10:00 p.m. Before my sister passed you call me at 10:00 p.m. You student officer. Yeah, you're still the Hella and then she like, oh you not coming home yet, not yet and then like 11 show cooking and then on times they are busy like bonus periods B12, she'll call you want me to get your father to send an air mattress to your office? She was funny because I was just like not coming home because of what it says. She understands about she also like is worried last. And I decided that you know, since my sister has really gone and I think it's time that I need to take charge of my time and you know find something that works for me. And now my family commitments hii value my family a lot and all these things I'm doing right now is just so that I have time to be able to you know, maybe go out for a mirror and mom so that's my dad needs to go see a doctor and I we can bring them because when you incorporate you can't do that. Yeah, I mean Veena is rather from probably because it's flexible still. And you know, our startup scenes are very different from the normal traditional even smes not all of them allow these so that's why I was thinking like what exactly can I be doing, you know so that I don't fall back into this trip all over again. I mean you talk about contextualism contextualizing time, right? Is there any advice to give to a young person like me because sometimes I feel like I have to call all the time, but right at least from what I'm hearing from you right that incident right me you realize that Is finite time but yeah, they see that as to a lot of time but how is any of us were useful to how to do it right now how to catch that little little small window. So I feel it. I've been asked this question like what what exactly do I think about time so I think time it's definite. So if you have today used to the so when you know, when it was the most traumatic period of the first six months when my sister passed on I was basically Lee a failure now, I mean after I left corporate I just took two months and I just just did nothing I just woke up watch TV go back to sleep and then there was no purpose zero there's nothing like it was about two months and I just decided that I just didn't want to do anything. I just want to Noah because there's some hardcore whole life is difficult man. Yeah, so I just decided to a break and after that I recharged and I felt like okay, so my Didn't get to leave to the next day. So if I can I can live to the end of today before I go to sleep. Would I be happy if I die tomorrow? That was a question. I always ask every night like to sum up my whole day. Yeah, like If I Die Tomorrow Will Be Happy a way to force yourself to confess something I still live by so they are these maps to lost and then I need to know her. I just know how then I say. Okay tomorrow. I died today. I know because I need to know how to do that at that. I like the mice. Okay? Yeah. Yeah, so I think I think this question about I do you feel like you have enough time but yet you still have only today I think you can only make the most out of today. That's only 24 hours you can do so, what are you doing about it? Like if there was a goal that you had are you working towards if you are in good night. I mean you will die happy tomorrow. But if you're not then when you die tomorrow, wherever wherever whichever figure you see based on a religion when they say that okay, I actually did really there. Would you be happy? Yeah. I think that that is the question that Maybe people need to ask themselves. So doing this two months, right? When did you like it? I watch it at the end of two months you had this realization then you wanted to make use of the whole like me is of the day. So, how did it how did it translate to you doing what you do? Not like what was because it should be before before that two months and your first client so that question actually came first and I decided I needed to take a break. Okay, so I actually once she passed away. I was always thinking about life really like what exactly why am I going to work the housing office and how Christ and do it my Excel spreadsheets, right? I'll just cry and I'm like, okay. Why am I here? Yeah, and then when the trigger came that I attended after that I decided that okay. I am just going to do something for myself. I'm just gonna take two months. I think a break I go for a holiday. I come back. I know I do. I've I need to and then two months later. I'll be a it how long okay. Yeah, so I gave myself a 2 Mana to Pete's super tall. Whoa, this is super glow. Like I just yeah, so almost right and be composed of feeling and I give myself a deadline like a timeline. Okay, like by two months, I finished traveling. I finished watching TV. I finish like it's all very long time. It's not about hea anything more into man's are you beat it? Yeah, you cannot find that energy to come by all over again. Yeah, so I then Actually the idea of like starting or control.com was already around about two three months after my sister passed away. So when those lessons are they cooking for introductory sure my happy to also go control.com is my online business actually sell just people online. So we cater to B to C and also be to be what we do is we actually help them to purchase like not know but she's like we have packages that are available ready. So they just check out we get it delivered to them doorstep. Yeah. Yeah back to so that idea was already around when our student corporate. So I was going around talking to my friends. I'm JC friends. I'm like, you know, you need friends some some colleagues. My colleagues were like the the funniest people like you see, how are you know sell those people online. You sell easy. Honestly, they'll be done. It has to be us. I'm all of us. What's that? What's a value from? So we we actually want to be people's So we'd want to be online catalog we want to provide value. So what we do is we write we write blog posts. We educate people about how to write some things. Of course. We're not expert. I'm not expert I have as many consultant at home with my mom. So I don't know how to do certain things like how to write some stuff should know you do these diseases associate each me along the way also because what my business partner and I both realized is that Singapore is Big a very Multicultural place multi-religious multi-directional Correct place so myself being a hakan. What's it like Denise Cantonese? Yeah. So my business manager Cantonese, so we did was we got a few friends to come out and talk about the practices that we did. So for hockey and there's this thing about by King Kong. I don't know which they are trying to be honest. I am not quite back with it because I my business don't we don't specialize in that. But anyway, it was just a market research kind of thing. So we got some friends to sit down and other hokkien friend. She said, hey my household does this disease on this day and I will do another prayer on another day. And then we thought it was a hockey and thing. So the next hokkien person that we spoke to say Laura is just letter one day called him. Ah, and then we try to speak to another one. So we collected in for we collected every realize that it doesn't mean you're hokkien. It it doesn't mean that you're Hocking means that you're the same practice. Yes. So there are certain things that have been changed because maybe family have different practices. Yeah. So it's very hard to align the entire Singapore. Sorry, we had to end alignment higher Singapore like, you know, Direct. Groups into like oh you are cooking must do this this this because people will comment on your blog and say hey Nola. Yeah. I'm not correct. Yeah, so we didn't count want to go down that rabbit hole. So what we did was like more generic stuff and of course we try to post things that educational people because I think for younger people even like me, I don't know what the reason for doing certain things. I have no idea. Yeah, so we try to talk to like, you know, those who acquired people which I asked their. Yeah, we try to document that that's in the process for Content this year just Just to I think just to leave things there for people in the end. I even if you don't buy from me you'd buy from my competitors. I'm perfectly fine. But obviously providing helpful to me exactly. I wish that in the end you come at my boss because I want to learn how to for certain keep so I don't mind but it's actually performing quite well, so we are pretty shocked. There's a blog post that we did many years back about how the folder in God. Okay. Yeah, and then like you gets constant like views and you know people she come back to my site just to look at how to do it. We measure this content already resident like among older generation. They will know how to do it. Okay, but they it's us right now. We don't know how to for right? So, where'd you go first thing you do is Google. Yes. Yeah. I don't think I have a lot of information or that right? Okay. Sorry going back to when you transition into being a sole proprietor at what how do you get it first time so far for the consultancy it didn't it didn't come. HD I was very happy doing go get welcome stuff. I was busy with seven-mile Business Delivery. So one fine day one of my friends who is my who was my client. She said yeah, I've got trouble I need to set up this thing for a child I used to do th all right. I said yeah you can do for me I give you money. That's how it started. It's cool your friend who give you like? It's sad, but you the route is yeah. Yeah. Yeah, never never thought that like, I'll do consultants. Yes, like like something that brings in London. Anyway this friend. Yeah additional things that she asked for our just usually give it to her. She will recommend some friends to me whether they turn out or not. I'm fine because at issue we first right? So yeah, that was how the business for consultancy actually started. I didn't con I didn't consciously go out and set it up and say that hi, I'm open for Consulting business. It didn't happen that way actually it was to the point. As you are sending me money so much. I was talking I didn't you do something about the I need to account for this money coming in. And so was I believe that it wasn't like a business or sole proprietor. It wasn't so important to us. Let's just say she transferred the money to me now as I know I think I need to make it pop. Yeah. Yeah, so I'll just do it as I'll just take it as it comes and it eventually when the project ended I've got another project lined up and you know just say things just fell is referred someone truth. But someone didn't cut a now but it's fine and another friend, I guess. Yeah, and I actually believe in what of mouth because eventually you want to be somebody you trust. Yeah, you don't want to worry some really dodgy all over the cheap because you really don't know what the you know what the quality is was my experience in let's say because my experience is a digital Market analyst I run ads essentially, right? So are you fully dependent on Word of Mouth or are you like we are previously talking about you running ads as well. Right? Are you comfortable with only you lying or for now, I guess so I'm actually pretty easily contented. So I'm not the kind of want to build a business that has like 2,000 employees and like they're super big space. I'm not somebody like that. You can see that I'm not ambitious. But I really I think I just value I just value my time more so I feel like if I can for example I'm awake for let's see. 16 hours, for example, so in that 16 hours how many how many hours have been spent on client work? And how many hours I spend on taking care of myself so that my family can be taken care of. Yeah, so I think about that and I try not to overwork because I don't believe in like, you know taking as many clients as possible and it's growing up all their work. Yes, because you wanted to do a really good job correct attention actually matters because when you are in a company's more like you got to switch into that companies mindset, you've got to understand like that. Yeah, you know like for example if you Won't several clients as well. Yeah, it's like a split. Yeah changing gears right you do little bit of hate hunting, right? Okay introduce me the hard you hit hunt Okay, so hey I'm doing is just more executive term of doing recruitment. Okay? Okay, so tough if I thought yes, yes. Yes. So what we do usually people will try to put a definition to it. But OK the most commonly used one is like anything that's more than 7 K. They use it as a It Hunter for oh, I see. Okay. Yeah, so the value so basically there's why I do on the site. I mean, that's not that's not one of the course. I mean, I just have that sort. So if any time that my clients he was such that you need to get certified as certification. How did you know, so you need to go to like you need to take an exam with the government? Um, I think income is the one that issues and like and when needs to certify button over here that I use a lot and you know, very talented people that because you need a lot of businesses yourself right there. That's very connect the dots and say hey I have someone who will be a good fit for a company. So is that what somewhat so recruitment comes from the need of a company needing to feel a head count? Yes, so that's recruitment. So you've got to Heckle you need to recruit. Okay. So so the the the beautiful term sometimes we were Uses hate hunting is probably tied to the remuneration and the commission's as well as attract. Yeah, it's different. So like for the simple contract job like placements, the the commission is a lot lower but for like higher income sector all these roles that you place the commission basis different and of course depends on what firmly attached to and you know, what's a commission structure so literally it's called my rental Le lire in that so you really should just sell somebody night. Company and that's why you get color. So that's how he had this of Manila. Is there a reason why you're not sometimes I feel it's highly transactional. Okay. It's overly transactional. Like I prefer to stay with for example, if you're my candidate today, and I have a very amazing client at what we've asked company so client X is hiring and for example, if I am looking to just place you in there I can just place you in there if of Course you fit their requirements you get into a job there. You stay there for two three years you get sick and tired of life. You want to move again? Okay. Okay, so that's usually what happens right? And then you probably if you had a very good experience. If you're a hunter you go back to them you go back to your recruiter because you trust them you trust that they will find a good company for you. I feel as very transactional like I just feel like okay. I think you get what I mean. I saw a funny because I want you to find me a nice job. Yeah, that's all hmm, maybe not. That always like a commission scheme. All right, but people are open to come like calm like common base job. Yes off recruitment versus like insurance or property because people need to move jobs. Yes. Yes, so they are they are very open to know people when they call and say I'm calling from recruitment from idea of time to speak offshore. The tone is very nice. But if I don't believe I'm calling from property didn't like it. No, no exactly. So the the section listing mother perception. Very different. Yeah, okay ending of any of these ethical for this forecast, right? I'll just ask you some very generic stuff. Wonder why our favorite books. Do you have are you already there in the first place or not? Not so much as it. You know, what I saw that question. Is he gonna I don't read as much. In fact when I was growing. I hate the books. The only kind of books I read was textbook. But now I had to you know, run all this hot. What is your primary medium of absorbing contact is alive. Audio podcasts or is any podcast that you recommend for someone out there or you give a right hook? That's all this is their home. Okay. So my podcast is called the hashtag try everything. I'm sorry we do here is to actually collect stories of people around me. And of course, we're happy to get guess who actually made mistakes fail and eventually found something they like to do because what we realize in the entire scope of, you know, graduating singaporeans young singaporeans and at 30 and 35. Yeah, that's me, too. But Like, you know, they get lost in their thoughts. Sometimes they get worried because they don't know what they can do and they don't dare to try. So the whole point of this podcast was set up to where she interview people who fill and eventually found something that they like to do and it wasn't exactly and it's really from the horse's mouth because they all share stories and you know, the funny things all the settings they have to miss out on opportunities they do for example for mine. I had to go through a family thing to realize they are new and you do something different so Podcast it's yeah, it's one of the mediums that I do absorb content. If you say that I used to read more but not am I busy with client things that I try to squeeze time always be difficult. So in general and that will John Rowe I actually read more to as I self-development kind of books Gary. These books are quite good. I like them. And the other point is that I will give an immediate. What do you think? I'm Gary vaynerchuk. I think he's he's very real I've seen in Speak Life actually. Yeah, I think he's very busy and to my surprise a lot of youngsters day. Well, you know, I wasn't he was quite amazing. But of course, he's I mean, I see that he's real because he's the same on screen and off off screen. Yeah on stage. So that is it for people who don't know who care of inertia is in a few. Take the sentences. What does he do in for your perspective, but it's different for me because I work in this company. I mean for me I read up on him bit too much. So I know I know why he does. So I mean he wants, you know here at he wants the digital marketing. He runs the content management and stuff. But for me, I just see that he's he said he's a human being who's trying to make other human beings better and I think that's what everybody should become because why do you want to be toxic? Right? Yeah. Yeah, so that's my My my impression of him and I feel like he's just somebody who's very real and even even when you read his books, right? Like you can feel it. Who's that from the state? So what she does that she used to be a lawyer if I'm not wrong, so She has this five-second rule 5 4 3 2 1 and go do it. Oh, yeah, I think it's probably heard of it. So we'll have 5 second rule is actually something that a lot of people use the I used to use it for a period of time or so, but the more one thing that I like to use about her is whether your chicken or jerk she has this Theory whether you're a chicken or jerk so she's very onto not self-sabotaging. Okay. Hmm. So for example, you have a self sabotaging thought for example today, I can't come to Jesus podcast. Yeah, so Because I don't want to speak on a podcast. So these thought is it being a jerk or is it being a chicken to yourself? So I'm being a jerk to myself because I don't want to obtain if I'm scared of being on a on a podcast and I'm chickening on myself. So why be a chicken so she wants you to be aware of why your self sabotaging yourself. So categorize our thoughts in either a chicken pot or joke thought yeah. Okay, that's interesting. Yeah. So then when you realize that you're being a jerk right there, you just enjoy yourself that and then forces have to do so. This will have to be self-aware that correct, correct? Because there are some things when we know we need to do but we don't do it for example, like going to waking up. Yeah, but know that you like yeah, so it's II like a theory a lot. So those apart I know and I was I mean everybody has ups and downs, right? So there's a part time when I was really hitting like the Rock and I was thinking what to do with this thing. Like I need to do this, but the one that we saw the ask myself, why do I want to do it? Then when the the answer came out and I was like she loved just jerking myself. So I just couldn't do it. I think okay. Yeah, okay salt five questions best advice you've ever received. Like a shot go do it was advice you've ever received Never My Love. Oh, we are not registered at shit. Wonderful. Now. He was a best year of your life. Thus far what events what tangible events would need to happen to what that you'll eventually the happened. This is to make it the best day of your life finally making more than what I did last time as a self validation and I don't know buy a car and you go right? Yeah. Okay Lauren. Thanks so much for coming rifle. Listen this thing Twisted the reach out to you right? Where can they find you and reach out to you? Right? I'm on Instagram. So why it's going to handle do I read it out. Yeah. So my Instagram handle is a very Star Wars related. So it's only one Kenobi. Okay. Yeah, and I'm on Facebook as well. I guess I'll be like Christmastime Is All when G so instead of Obi-Wan Kenobi's Obi-Wan Kenobi, okay, let's do this. That's a unique nickname that my friends used to give me. So I just thought I just use it LA. Are you bawling active or Instagram LinkedIn? I'm in active active on Instagram and Linkedin less of this walk and also you can you can take note of my podcast and yes, we know how yeah, so podcast is available on Spotify a podcast Falls piske almost everywhere. Hashtag try everything is checked right away. Okay, Lauren. Thanks so much for joining this podcast. I really left a lot of Acacia, and I think there's a lot of breaking the misconceptions about Haitian, which I learned a lot today and thanks so much for coming. Thanks so much for having me. Thank you.
A huge THANKS to Lauren for joining me on this podcast session - I reached out to her via LinkedIn and was mostly interested in learning more about what HR is - it's not exactly the most enticing thing for undergraduates to major in Human Resource, and I think there's a quite a big difference when it comes to being taught HR in schools and actually implementing HR policies that make a tangible difference in businesses. Lauren runs her own business, (Transform.Recreate) that caters to helping SMEs create better HR foundations according to their business needs and shares her story of how she got into this business - coming from a corporate background, it equipped her with an in-depth and yet wide-ranging experience of what it takes to have good HR for companies of all sizes. She is also the co-founder of GotKimZua (gotkimzua.com), an e-commerce Singapore-based joss paper store incepted in May 2017. She also has her own podcast, #tryeverything, where she shares stories of people who had overcome their failures to become successful in their own ways. Definitely go check it out and have a listen! We mostly talk about the importance of HR, common misconceptions about it, Lauren's accidental story into HR consulting and role models that we look up to! 