Hi, this is how do I Cummington and mrs. Hapless podcast? I'm so excited that you're joining me today and it's a new year which means we had new goals new vision hopefully new purpose and we also need some new tools. I'm one of those people. That I grabbed a bunch of books and things that I want to utilize for the year and it's my responsibility to grow. It's my responsibility to give myself to equipping and discipling my life. And so that's really what my heart is for you as you listen to this podcast, you know, we don't do it a ton and when I do get on here, I just want to make sure you're getting kind of the the simple part of havilah Kennington and what we do over at treat the table and so today we're I'm I wish you could see my face because I'm smiling and I'm probably going to talk really fast because I'm very excited today. I have my friend and really here out in the faith. John bevere is a guest today on the podcast John welcome to the have a live podcast. Well, if you could see my face right now, I don't really smiling because I have the utmost respect honor and love for you and Ben and love what you're doing for the body of Christ. Oh John, thank you. You know, we really can't Connected early on Lisa they have four boys. We have four boys and we connected early on with the fact that someone said you need to find people of Hope because you're going to feel like you're not going to make it without them and I found a picture of the veers online and like posted it as my screensaver and I was like, those are my people of faith and people have hope who was in Lisa's course on mothers of men. Yep, you know messenger Internationals number one selling. Course, is it really Grazie? Oh, I love it. Yeah historically it's the number one. It's crazy. I love that. No, it's so appropriate to today's matter of fact. I just interviewed my assistance getting married and she's going to Australia. So I interviewed this lady yesterday that was unbelievable candidate for a new assistant and she said I came to know about your ministry through mom's of men and I was like, oh my God. I love it. Oh, yeah, it was it was so spontaneous and we just kind of thought let's start out there and see what people do and it was you know, really I think you know people raising boys are unique again that's on the top of her to talk about today. But raising boys, you have some Godly men now Mary you had two weddings this year. He took full year for you guys. That's right. You're using Asia Middle East and then they go we want to get married this fall because they both got engaged within four days of each other last summer and we're like we don't have any weekend's open and one son had to get married on a Monday night. It's so awesome. What good I mean, you know, it's funny as we pray. We pray pray and then all of a sudden the Miracles come at the same time. Yeah Dear Boy left for those of you single ladies that are I know and I keep telling him I said, And don't you dare get married or date anybody you're like the hottest commodity and the Christian world right now. So just leave it like that. It's so funny and you know, I can laugh about it because he has got such a humble attitude and he really does he's absolutely I mean girls think he's gorgeous and clueless to it. He's just so interested in people. He's probably one of the most gifted social men I've ever met in my life, you know, so Alec is definitely amazing. I would agree with that and he just has a way of pulling you in and there's no one that tells better stories than Alex. Oh, I'm one of those where I just want to sit and hear him tell a story. He's that guy, you know, he gets up to preach on like just tell stories just tells me like that. Well, I'm really excited to hear today John because this is really the launch of a brand-new book that you are researching the body of Christ with and it's called God. Where are you which just reading the It'll is like oh, yes, we need to we need to answer this question, but I'm just really excited about this this resource and I guess I'm curious like obviously you've written a lot of books. How many books have you written? This is number 21 only 21. I wish you would apply yourself John. I need you. I need to be self recycling more diligent. That's right. So 21 books and now you write this book called God. Where are you? And We when I started seeing some of the information about this book and obviously it's launched. It's ready. You can purchase it on Amazon. But what I really love about this is the topic of the Wilderness and the idea that God often times takes us in a different seasons and one of those seasons is the Wilderness season. So I'm curious. How did you decide to write this book and kind of what started the conversation in your own heart? Well have a lot. You know what I got saved. I went to work for a church in the early 1980s we had 450 paid staff members and I was the executive system to the pastor and we had a wall there were so many miracles that happen our church. It was crazy. I mean wheelchairs up on the wall. They were Walkers up in the wall. I remember the Ku Klux Klan Grand wizard snuck into a service one night. He was going to take his life. If God didn't prove himself real, you know, there's a four thousand seat Auditorium the past walking down the whole Hall just the aisle joking. All that and turns the guy in reads his mail says you're in the clan and I mean it was amazing. I watched the guy with the red and white walking team come walking in and literally blind and I knew it wasn't a fake or phony because I'm the pastor's executive assistant and he walked out. I remember there was an ambulance that backed up in one of our services and the paramedics told pulled out this guy wheeled him down and just literally the guy gets healed he had T 4 hours left to live and pushed his bed out Jesus appeared in the sanctuary and about 850 because we have you know, one whole wing of a balcony. We it was packed. We had 4,000 people in the building but literally 800 people saw him. It was a split second and he left an imprint of his face on the wall that looked like the Shroud of Turin and and stay there stay there for literally a year and a half and just stays out and so company. This is normal Christianity, right? This is just everybody but you know God spoke to me and he said I've given a thimble full of my power to the church and he said Son I've done this to see how they will handle it and he said but it's going to lift and I thought this was just normal Christianity and God spoke to me and he said Son I've given a thimbleful of my power come on to the chart and he said to See how she'd handle it. And obviously we didn't handle it. Well because because one of my jobs was I picked up guest speakers and you know, and this is none of this is in the book this does I'm just I'm just saying what motivated this and I'll get to the point but you know half at probably half 40% to half of those ministers that those amazing miracles happen through aren't even in Ministry today. I mean our own church the building had to be imploded. Because they have black mold. Our pastor is not even in the ministry anymore today. And God said to me said I'm going to bring my church in the wilderness to develop her character. And then when she comes out my church will see the greatest move of the spirit of God. The Earth is ever seen. Yeah. Now that was you know, 25 years ago and I am sensing in my heart prophetically the church is about to come out but something God showed me is the greatest attack against us. This comes at the very end of the Wilderness. If you look at David, God says you're going to be king. That's the promise right then he goes through the process. That's the Wilderness. He's living in caves and deserts but it was at the very end. That is when Ziggler got attack. He lost his wives and children all of his men. They wanted to Stone him. That was his greatest attack and I really felt like there are so many and if you're listening to me right now, you can go and God, where are you? Where are you you it seems like I'm going backwards from the promises you've made to me. Seems like you're nowhere, you know, your presence is nowhere to be found. Like it used to be in my life and you're coming. I believe prophetically the whole church and individuals are coming to the end of this this this Wilderness season because Jesus goes into the desert heat. God says, you're my son. I'm pleased with you, but then the spirit of God leads him into the desert to be tempted of the devil and it was at the end of the 40 days that the massive Temptations came the whole 40. Days, he was tempted the Bible says but this is when the mass of one came when the enemy was like just give up just give up your the Son of God make this thing into bread. So, you know, but he returned when he came out of the Wilderness he came into Power he came the Bible says he went in filled with the spirit putting returned in the power of the spirit. And so I sense that so many people are at the very end of their Wilderness and the greatest attacks going to come and what we need is tools and wisdom. To overcome like David had to have encouraged himself in the Lord to overcome. So that's why I felt now is the time now is the time to release this message. But basically the Wilderness is when God's presence seems like he's a million miles away and is in the promises he's made to us or even further if you look at Joseph you're going to be a leader, but then you know when he when he shows up on the scene. He's a bit of a bragger. He's a bit of a tattletale. He's talking down to his brothers, but when he goes through this Wilderness and it's pit slavery dungeon, we all know that he comes out of it and he comes out of it now with the character to handle that position that God wanted to put him in there's promotion that was his promotion. So it goes promise process promotion and a lot of us God wants to put us into places of influence, but we need the character and that's what the purpose of the wilderness. So it looks like he's going yeah, it seems like God Made Me This Promise of leadership. My brothers are going to serve me and he's just going backwards. He's going pit slavery dungeon and it's at the end of his Wilderness that the greatest attack came against him. It wasn't really a track. It was the greatest test. And what was the test? Well God brings a butler and the Baker and the test is can Joseph can Joseph Proclaim to the Butler and Baker the faithfulness of God when he hasn't seen any evidence. It's of it in his own life in 12 years. Now. What do I mean by any evidence? God said you're going to be a leader in your brother's going to serve you. Well. He's in a dungeon to die. I mean he's put there to rot because he's been accused of raping his master one of the king's officers wives, so he's going backwards and you know, if Joseph would have been like a lot of people he would have said to the Butler and Baker you had a dream leave me alone. I had a dream 12 years ago dreams. Don't come true. God doesn't answer. If you would have done that and would have died in the dungeon saying God's not faithful when in reality, he was faithful. So the thing to do is when it seems like God is not coming through in our life. He is working. He's not abandon us. He's not put us on a shelf. He is not wasting our time because God is the one that commands us to redeem the time what he's doing he's working on her behalf. If you look at Job jokes that I go forward. He's not there I go backward. I can't perceive him but when he's working on My left hand so God was working on Judge behalf, but it didn't seem like he was so that I know there's so many people out there have low right now. They're like God seems like you're doing nothing in my life. I've been put on the Shelf. I've been left here to rot. I'm not doing any anything in regard to what you promised me. No, that's not true. He is working in our life and we need to know that yeah, I love that because what you're doing is you're giving people hope that even if they can't see anything he's still at work, but what you're also So doing is showing that God isn't always say God isn't raising grandkids. He's raising children and grandkids get given what they want often, but with the children but you know parents want to give kids the ability to be a sustainable adult a healthy adult of contributor to society and a healthy way. So they know that it requires training and discipline and a season we're almost as if responsibility can give you given slowly I think about this in our walk with Christ and what you're saying, which I think is profound. It is you're saying there is a process to maturity. There's a process to equipping and character and often when it's the darkest is what you're saying. It doesn't mean that the light's gone out. It means that there's going to be a light but you need to hang on and your building muscles. You would not build unless you're being stretched like this. Is that what exactly right? Yeah, that's exactly right. We build those spiritual muscles. And you know, I remember when Addison he's our first born in, you know, you're observing a lot because your dad and your first year this year. Firstborn son. Yeah, but you know every every whimper every cry God's presence was there. I mean, oh my God, excuse me, everyone for every cry. His mother's presence or my presence was there. Yeah, just you know just there there but then the day came when we had to let him teach him we had to teach him how to feed himself. So I remember the first day and it's still Vivid in my memory. There is half the food is on his high chair and on the floor. He is so frustrated and he's looking at us like why aren't you feeding me? The truth of the matter is we didn't want an 18 year old son that we had to still spoon-feed. Yes. Yeah. This is what happens with us with God. We're like, you know, I remember when I first got saved have Aurora. Oh my gosh. I just would whisper the name of Jesus and I'm in tears and his presence is there and I'm like, oh this is so Wonderful am thinking this is going to be the rest of my life and yet the day came when I went into that first Wilderness. It was an 18-month experience. I'll never forget it and it was like God what's going on and I kept saying what sin have I committed? What have I done to offend God and there was nothing I had done it was like God was saying I'm ready for you to take a first major leap of your spiritual growth. Yeah. I remember before that happen. You know when I was a baby Christian my cassette player, I know all of us have no idea what cassettes are there dinosaurs I get it, but I had a cassette player in my car and it broke and I was so frustrated because I don't have the money or the time to fix it. And I remember you know, Jesus said lay hands on the sick and they will recover I laid hands on my cassette player and got it. He fixed it comes like oh gosh, so, you know, I mean and then when that time came you're just like God you've abandoned me. Where are you? What sin did I commit no, sin? It was God was bringing me in the first level of growth and I totally agree remember as a young woman teaching a series called when God hides himself and it was my Wilderness season where I was trying to deal with the fact that God was it wasn't it was separating self, but he was definitely trying to get me to move forward and if he met me where I was I would stay where I was so I had to he had to kind of move further back so I would walk towards him, but I'm curious. Do you find even as a leader and as someone who's been in the body of Christ for decades, do you find that the Wilderness comes through a over and over or does it just happen one time? How does it work in our lives? So the Bible says that John the Baptist was in the deserts right until the day is manifestation to Israel and the Bible says that the word of the Lord came to John in the desert. So I I talked specifically about this book. I have gone through many wildernesses. And any time I go through Wilderness. I know it's a time of growth. It's a time of preparation. It's a time of strengthening. It's a time of purification have a I'll be really honest with you. I went through a major Wilderness the end of 2017 and a good part of 2018. And I know what got I see here's the thing in the book. I say this in the introduction. I've gone through several Wilderness seasons in my life. Walk With Jesus, okay, but the ones where I was the most confused and ask the most questions were the first two because the first one I went through was an 18-month one and then the second one that I went through and made the first one look like a picnic. I remember that one. I was crying out and asking so many questions because my my boss wanted to destroy my life. He literally was set to destroy me and I had done nothing wrong. I do it was doing was creepy. Preaching Holiness as a youth pastor to my youth group and his dad was my boss. One of the kids dads was my boss. One of the kids is Dad was my boss. Yeah, and he literally said himself to destroy my life. He murdered my reputation. He slandered my name and the thing is I watch God restore everything. He was fired on one day because he was embezzling from the church and I was restored but that was after an 18 months of what seemed like a hell on Earth. And in those first two was on I had most of the questions and that's when God start answering from from the word of God. So I don't I don't talk a lot about the questions. I was crying out in later wildernesses experiences because I knew what was happening if that makes sense. Yeah. Did you sense? Like do you feel that there are things that it's almost like a when you go into a storm on a boat, you know, you got to hold on and you know, this is all part. It's I must want to say also like when you're taking off on an airplane, you know, you know, here's the signs the two beeps mean get your seat in here and you can feel the airplane taking off and the more you fly with you fly all over the world. You understand you kind of get in this rhythm of knowing what's going to happen and there's some their sides and I think about that with the Wilderness you're saying there are moments where the same questions the same concerns that same wonderings, but you got to hang on. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. I'm saying that through experience I under you know, The experience of the earlier ones taught me how to hang on for the next ones. That's an excellent example you gave so when I hear and oh, hey John get the seat belt on I don't even have to look up. I don't even have to you know, I don't really have flown 12 over 12 million miles only look up at the see, you know, when I hear to the captain wants to talk to you. Out there like you could probably get up and do this this this safety speech better than me, you know, and so yes, there is you get experience and it produces hope and I have a lot of time going through a really dry season like the 2017-2018 one. I'm like, okay, I know what's going on. So there's a lot of Hope in me because I know it's at the other end of it. I've watched the great blessing and Ian and favor of God, that's come on my life after I have half properly handled Wilderness season and so handled A wilderness season. That is that's brilliant properly handle either way. You have to properly handle it or what you end up with scars you end up hopeless you end up? Well, yes, let's talk about that. Yeah, Joseph properly handled his Wilderness season. He was promoted into the dream that God, but if you look at the children of God intended for them to be in the desert for one year. He intended that after a lot of careful study. I discovered that one day and I was like, wow, okay, I get it. So you can't shorten your Wilderness season, but you can sure lengthen it and the way they liked it is they didn't properly handle it. They complain now one day I say God complaining, you know, that's one of the you know, they there was the big five of First Corinthians 10, right? There's a Adult sexual morality tempting Christ idolatry. And what was the other one? Oh, I came out but they're huge their bigness of sins. Right? And then the fifth one is complaining and I'm like God you like lump complaining him with idolatry and tempting Christ is complaining so bad and the Holy Spirit spoke to me now that I will never forget this he said complaining is an insult to my character. Come on. As too many that's tweetable. Okay. Listen to me. I'm finished. It gets even better. Okay complaining says to me God. I don't like what you're doing in my life right now. And if I were you I would do it differently. Yeah, and I went oh my goodness and that's why I then saw complaining to be just as severe as sexual immorality and idolatry. And really the Bible talks about a root of bitterness and I think complaining is what opens the door to where we begin to build a root and I think Roots, you know, the Bible is really really tells us clearly about the root of bitterness and I think that's really where the danger of the Wilderness happens because if we don't like you said almost go through the Wilderness in a proper or healthy way we'll end up with grooves in our own spiritual life and really lies and misconceptions that will end up passing out. The other people because we prolonged are Wilderness because we didn't process it, right and yeah, right me how many I know you and I both minister to the church and I find often with people. I'll have a conversation with them and I'll think I'll listen to their story and I'll thank you have prolonged your Wilderness because you won't surrender. You won't humble yourself. You won't learn, you know, you're going around the mountain again, and I love you, but you're making life. So you're working too hard. You don't have to work this hard you're going to the Valley of the shadow of death, but you don't need to stop there. You need to keep walking and people really sit and hang out there. You know, I had a meeting with someone yesterday that worked very high level in a church. That was huge National prominence. And I said to this person after talking for some time. I said you have a clear spirit and I know what you went through. Yeah and that person. Smiled and said, yep, it took a lot of intentional allowing the Holy Spirit to probe my heart but you know have luck. Wow. I've seen people work for churches like that and they have a Bitter Root as you said and they now are cynical there now jaded and it's because they didn't handle their Wilderness season correctly and I look at a love First Chronicles 12 15. It says the sons of A car had understanding of the times so they knew what Israel ought to do and when you understand the time of the Wilderness you then know the proper behavior? Yeah, you got my time. If let's say let's say, you know somebody from the south they go. Oh my dreams to go to Colorado skiing, right so they could fly up here. They got their brand new snowboard. They got all their stuff. Our gear on they got their goggles everything to get on the chair lift. They ride up to cheer lift and they jump off the chair lift only to fall flat on their face. Yeah one because it's summertime. There's no snow on the ground the mountain and you know, what would have been beneficial behavior in the wintertime. They would have gotten down that mountain, you know in 60 seconds, right, you know seconds to 2 minutes in the wintertime. Now, they've got a basically carry all this gear down. The mountain in the summertime so proper behavior in the wrong season can end up being detrimental and when we have understanding we know the proper behavior and that's the big thing. You know, the Bible says yet understanding it tells us get it guys. This is what the Holy Spirit keeps reverberating through my heart about this book. This book is going to give my children understanding to have the proper. in the season of the wilderness It's incredible, you know, you mentioned the beginning when we were talking about how you felt like the church was at this moment in time where we're in the wilderness. We are being pulled back and that are potential or a promise is coming. Do you feel that the church is doesn't know how to Steward the Wilderness right now. And this is why there's complaining or disconnect or breaches and relationship or people are walking away from communities because the Wilderness they don't realize that it's a God's plan for them. Yeah, and also let me add one more thing to be you accurately said there's a bunch of ishmael's being birth. Wow. So another words. Okay. Let's talk about in Ishmael. Yeah. God made a promise to Abraham when he was 75 and God said to him. It's not Eliezer who's the era of your household? It is a sun that will come from your loins. He didn't say a word about Sarah but after 11 years. Of nothing. Sarah said come on. Let's get moving on this. God said you were going to have a son marry my my servant and of course Ishmael was born and God said, okay. They think they can do this in their own ability In Their Own Strength. I'm going to wait until he's reproductively dead. Not just Sarah him and said, he'd have his own body. Yes. He said because I am not and this is this is what God says. I am not going. Allow you to birth what I promised to you because if you do then we have to share the glory and God says I'm not sure anybody's right. So so what also happens not just a skirt not just discouragement and complaining you also get people that try to birth ishmael's and ishmael's are not The Heirs of the promise. So there are going to be issuing Ministries and there's going to be Isaac Ministries and God showed me this one day. Wow. Do you want an issue of ministry? Because he said if you You can do it, right it is a promise. I've called you to preach. He said if you do it, you're going to have to provide for it because what's birth in the flesh has to be provided for by the flesh. But he said what's birthed in the spirit. He said the spirit provides for and can I tell you you know, that was tough for me because I'm watching my friends and my friends are like being promoted. They're going forward. They're they're doing they're doing well not you know, and I'm like Oh my God, you know what? Am I doing? I mean and yet I knew that God was saying no you're going to serve now, you're not to birth your ministry and some of those friends that I watch go forward and I knew they were new have a life that they were making it happen. I've never heard from them since and that was 30 years ago and yet I felt they were more gifted than me. They were more talented than me and they should have gone much further. Further but you know, it's it's gotten said that prophetic word cast out the bondwoman with her son for the son of the flesh will not be Heir with the son of the promise and so it's just an encouragement to say. Hey, you're some of you yeah, we're going to have a discouragement the Temptation most people will but some people who are very aggressive. Yeah, they're going to be they're going to be tempted with the To birth and Ishmael. Yeah, so I mean again that's that's wrong behavior in the wrong season. And so I just want to see people I want to see everyone I want to see them receive that promise from Heaven. I mean have Allah why is it that your ministry is growing so fast, I mean, how do I know? There's there's people up is good communicators is better better much better than I didn't want to say that but Why is it that God is just causing this ministry of yours to explode because I can already tell you you were a girl that probably was tempted a lady. I'm sorry. I was called I was I was a girl when I started your girl that was tempted to make it happen on your own. But some of the spirit of God was like, uh, uh, and then that day came when the spirit of God said now go. Yep, and you know, Jesus came out. X that desert time in the power and you came out of whatever your Wilderness time was because I know you could teach this just as easily as I could and you came out of that time. And now you have you know, I love what James says blessed is the man or woman who endures Temptation and test for they shall receive the Crown of Life Crown speaks of authority. Yes. There's going to be a crown in heaven, but I think it's talking about this like Crown speaks of authority and with authority comes power. Jesus goes into the desert filled with the spirit comes out. In the power of why he endured the Temptation in the tests of the Wilderness now, he's got the authority. He didn't get a free ride. It's not like it's got a free ride and we don't write Jesus had to go through everything. We have to go through it does and it says that clearly he does he did everything we did. I think what's really interesting and this is something that you have to get ahold of is you have to understand that you the promises and the purpose of God is where life is fulfilled and where we Begin to know that we're living exactly as we are called to live on the earth. So what you're saying is is if you don't Steward the Wilderness properly you will you don't understand what the promise holds because you'll you know, you'll do anything. I remember as a young woman. I was invited to be a pastor at Bethel Church at 19 and they came down asked my dad. Hey can have like come up. I want to be a pastor Bethel church, and I knew I wasn't ready. I knew that wasn't the season and I remember saying no I can't. I can't do it's not time. I'm God really told me to sit and serve my parents. We were purchasing a church. I was going to do everything from clean toilets to answer phones and and it was so funny because Bethel of course it gosh didn't turn into anything other than a worldwide Ministry and exploded out of every seam of the building and here I was setting up church every single week by might you know with my small team doing exactly what God called me to do and sometimes the Ishmael is that we know we can make something happen. It's like the girl that goes out and gets married because she wants to be married and then doesn't understand why marriage is so tough and you're saying yet anybody could get married anybody could have a kid anybody could start a blog anybody could write a book, but you want God's hand on it and I look back now at Bethel, you know, it took me almost 20 years later and now invited in now have such a beautiful relationship with this community and it's been really a launching place for my life. It took many years of not having to navigate when you Like you're going the opposite direction. I think the enemy holds over us the lie that we missed God when things get hard. I'm standing here with my mouth open and let me tell you why because my church came to me and said we really want you to be a pastor and I felt uncomfortable after a weekend of fasting and praying I came back and I said I feel like if I do this I'll be taking Saul's armor and turned it down and people thought. I was nuts. Okay, because this was the most prominent Church in the United States in the 1980s early 1980s. Yeah, people thought I was nuts. But I knew God was like this isn't me? This isn't me? And then TL Osborn who was like my hero. He had led 62 million people to the Lord in his Crusades in Africa and he offered me a position and God said and people thought I was nuts again and yet let me let me tell you what just went through my mind when you said that it was Sarah who encouraged Abraham to do it. It wasn't a premium. It was Sarah and yet Abraham did it and had an Ishmael and I'm thinking wow A lot of times the encouragement to promote to promote yourself or accept a promotion when it's not God's time yet will come from somebody else. That's right and often when they Have their own issues of fear their own issues of wanted God to promote them. They will often try to get you to step out. That's what I thought in my own life. I don't know if you know, but in my own life I find there are many times people will counsel me out of their own pain out of their own desire out of their own ambition, and I'm going that's great. But at the end of the day, I have to Steward my own internal world and that honestly if we do that well that will take most of our energy just to it our heart mind will and Surrender and have him Lord of our life. It takes a lot of focus and connection and I just think people often times they don't want to see you in pain. And so they want to kind of get you out of it. I remember one time John I was this is kind of like a bit of a side Bop but at one point the prophetic has been very key in my life and I have had the prophetic has been one of the most propelling force in my life, but also one of the most painful parts of my life and I remember going to God in the wilderness and saying God you prophesied. You said this and it felt like this was what God was doing and then it just the door shut what happened and the Lord really spoke to me and said there's a difference between the prophetic and discernment and some people will see your life and they will discern pain they'll just discern of heart to do something. It's like the girl that wants to get married to everyone saying your husband's around the corner. They may not have heard that from God, but they see the pain or hey that person is trying to get pregnant. Well your baby's coming. Well, they want that to happen. So they're going to prophesy out of the pain. But what they're doing is they're Discerning the heart and this is what's really critical that we understand what God is doing because often it's our immaturity that wants to prophesy somebody out of pain instead of letting them live in the process and realizing that when God wants to do something in their life. They will it's the same as happening in the body of Christ right. Now. There's a lot of people prophesying a lot of momentum and this what God's doing and what you're saying is no it's not yet guys. We are still we're still stewarding the Wilderness in our lives. They'll be promise. But we've got to be careful. We don't try to get people out of the process. I couldn't agree more with what you just said and I think it's the empathy. It's a yeah, but think about it. When what is real true compassion? Is it giving somebody an opportunity to burthen Ishmael or alleviating somebody from the pain that's actually going to Bring the purification or actually causing person a person to go around the mountain again or is true love saying I know it's I know it's rough but God is preparing you for something great. And it's not, you know, we always want to give hope to people that are in pain, but we don't want to give false hope and and and I would just say, you know the scripture that just came into my heart was this while you were talking was some Thirty One where it says. My times are in your hand. Yeah, so the psalmist says says that are times as far as the our seasons of our life are in God's hands and even Jesus said it's not for you to question the time or the season that the father's putting his own authority. So there's one thing all of us have to realize is seasons and times are in God's hands and if we try to shorten the season before God has determined. The season is to be shortened. We open up a person to actually create create problems whether it's let that false hope that always sets a person up for a letdown. And so I think it's very important that unless God Almighty speaks to us because I know you as a prophetess. This happens a lot. God will give you periodically he'll give you a season and that's a true. You'll see prophets in the bible by this time next year. You'll have a baby in your arms. God gave that. That to them to him. Okay, and but if God doesn't give it we feel the pressure because we seal see the pain. Yep. And so very important especially prophetic people that we understand the season of the Wilderness. That's right, you know, because what is our strength empathy compassion love will end up turning around and being a weakness if it's not coupled with wisdom and understanding that's right. And and one thing you're saying John, which I think honestly this So probably I hope that our community is leaning in because this is is critical but we can't you know Studies have done scientific Studies have been proved that you can't build self-esteem by telling someone to be confident or to have self-esteem. The only way to build self-esteem is through the struggle. It's to know that you went through something and you did it and you didn't die and what you're saying is that God is saying you can't become the people you're called to be and I can't just tell you your people promised. I can't just tell you. That you've got purpose. I can't just tell you that you're going to make it you're going to have to actually walk through it. So you can have something that no one else can take from you and this is why this book is critical in our in our generation community and I'm so grateful that you wrote this book because we need we need to know that there's a plan in the pain and there's a plan in the wilderness and they're not doing something wrong because we all know that that was part of the LIE we were doing something wrong and that's why we're not Experiencing God in that way, and it's not true, but also the warning The ishmael's how to Steward our Wilderness how to know the signs of a Wilderness how to know what to you know, what to talk to God about the most mean all of these things are critical and then on top of that what season it's a church in I mean this book is so necessary John. I'm really really I'm kept just compelled with this sense of urgency, like everyone needs this book. They need to read this book will have a lot. I just I'm believing with all my heart. It's going to bring hope and answers. And I will say that I spoke to 3,300 people just two days ago or this past Monday and three days ago homestays are blurring for but do you know that the amount of tears I heard is I was preaching was just mind-blowing and I will say you could hear the sobs, right and I will say so many people came up to me and said John. This is exactly where I'm at. And this has brought me so much hope and answers and also the reviews that we're getting on the book initially we've gotten in we've gotten in about or well I say Amazon and as we've gotten in about a couple hundred reviews already. Yeah, they're all saying exactly what those people said at that church. So it's my my deep deep. Hope you know, I've got that kind of Father's Heart. I turned 16. You're not just really love people. In the body of Christ so much and I wasn't always that way. I was a young energetic young man. It was so much more concerned about the mission than I was people and I you know, that's that's one of the Wilderness has sure took that out of me. But now I really don't want to see people confused. I don't want to see them frustrated. I don't want to see them get bitter and cynical and jaded. It's just a passion right now. So I really hope that What the Holy Spirit does with this book? Yeah, it gets in everybody's hands I do too and I just want to thank you John for writing the books that we need. Not just the ones we want and I think that's really critical it specifically of a heart of a father that says you're going to need this to go where you're called to go. And you know, I just sense that so deeply and I just want to thank you. I know the road hasn't been easy and you know, it is humbling to talk about Wilderness Seasons. It's humbling to talk about questions. It's humbling to say I did. Know what to do and for you to write these words the you lives are going to be changed people are going to come back to believing that God has a purpose for their life and it really is it's just really powerful. So I want to thank you for giving your life to this. I can't imagine the world without you and Lisa and your family you are a gift to anybody who knows you you and I both know. It's all the grace of God. Yes. Okay, so where can people find this book John? Well, you know Amazon's easy you they can go to messenger International or they can go I mean there's a I think most airports stores are carrying them. Come on. It's a noble they can go to what's that that store that are owned by the greens. Oh my gosh, John. Oh my gosh. I'm trying to think Hobby Lobby. Oh, yeah. Yeah, and then most of all most every Christian bookstore and even secular book stores. However, you cool. Is pretty good. So yeah, I have to ask now the easiest way is just click on Amazon. And that was you got it downloaded or it's at your house two days later if you're a Prime member so so true. Okay if ask you are you going to do a course on this already? It's called It's called The Wilderness. I actually did it before the book came out there. As soon as I saw that one that's I was curious about this months ago and what we've discovered. Discovered this the hard way that if I name a course exactly the title of the book people don't get it and I will say in the wilderness course though. It is similar material. There is a lot in the wilderness course, I didn't put in the book and there's a lot in the book that I didn't put in the course so that I tried to do it so that the two would really bring bring a complete package so they can go to you would go to messenger International for that to get the wilderness. Course. Yeah, I love that and and really, you know, it's you can only communicate so much in a book. You really need to be able to hear it preach and you need the whole kind of full meal deal. So that's I encourage anybody to see this go do both go get the Wilderness course and obviously get the book and this will be on your library for fun. Let's talk to somebody who understands that I do know it exactly it's like the parent person who hasn't parents had yet and you explain your kids. It's like I love you, but I'm not interested unless you have a limp. I'm not interested. Specifically when it comes to this, so John, I love you, please, you know, we pray for master anyone can find you a message International as well. There's lots of resources and books and courses and super excited. I also want to say this this is like that thing we talked about but your kids are also you guys watch Sons and Daughters and that is very exciting as well. They can follow its your sons and their wives and some other people on the team, right? I assume it's a couple other people Yeah couple people in the team, but it's really really refreshing to hear these. Young people having so much fun but yet communicating and I'm compromised message in the fun and it's just I'm so proud of her. I know I love it. It's just another glimpse of what your home has been like so I love you guys so much. Have a great day John and I'm so glad you're on this podcast and come back. Will you come back? Oh, I'd love to Lisa. I would love you and been so deeply. So we're so proud of you. Thank you for being such pure instruments that God is using in the end in the Earth today and you truly are a gift to the A price and that you have a great day John. Bye now. Bye. Bye. Well, I hope that really blessed your life. I hope that everything God is trying to get to you. You grabbed a hold up again. Don't forget to give me a shout out on the socials and there almost every day. And if this podcast really spoke to you, would you consider leaving a review? So others can find this podcast and as well some Stars. I hope you have a great day and I'll catch you next time.
Today I have a special guest and friend on the podcast with me, John Bevere. We will be talking about the wilderness season together and how God takes us through different seasons in our lives. God allows us to go through the wilderness to develop character. God told David, he would be king, but then David had to go through the process, which is the wilderness. Joseph was given a dream but was forced to go the exact opposite direction of that dream to be ready for the promise. God wants to put us into a place of influence, but we need the character first. We don't always go through this season because we did something wrong but because we need it to go where He's called us to go. Promise. Process. Promotion. In the wilderness, it feels like God’s presence is far away from us and the promises He made us even further. But when you understand the purpose of the wilderness, you have the proper behavior to grow through it. If you don’t steward the wilderness properly or understand it, you will never understand what the promise holds. It is so important that we have the right tools, wisdom, and encouragements in this season to endure it and grab hold of its purpose. 