This podcast is brought to you and made possible by generous financial aid from Peter kanzler K. Ay n z l-- e-- r-- you can buy his Amazon books at your favorite Amazon Branch, for example, the original texts of lock Hobbs and the US Constitution of Pennsylvania put together into one book for only $15. Thanks for listening. Hey, how's it going? Everyone? So today I have a very special guest. Dr. Jordan be Peterson. He's a professor of psychology at the University of Toronto and a practicing clinical psychologist. And I want to read just a just a little bit of a paragraph Just A Little Piece from his his arm his own website. Jordan Pederson has published more than a hundred scientific papers transforming the modern understanding of personality and Noise in the psychology of religion in his now classic book maps of meaning there the architecture of belief as a Harvard Professor. He was nominated for the prestigious. Let me some teaching prize and is regarded by his current University of Toronto students as one of the three truly life-changing teachers. Dr. Peterson. Thank you for coming on and tearing that is it is it safe to say is it fair to say that you are considered a rock star now? Well, my YouTube channel seems to be have become very popular in me and I've been yeah, I mean I hate to use that characterization, you know, but yeah, there's been an explosion of media interest and then public interest in the sorts of things that not only the sorts of things that I've been dealing with say sort of philosophically and politically but also in in the lectures that I putting up for people on on YouTube, which I've been doing for about 4 years now and I think it's the combination of the stamps that Took on on compelled speech and on political correctness in general and also the content that I've been providing with people they come to the channel for the for the political controversy. I suppose and they seem to stay for the content. So that's pretty it's been it's remarkable. I mean, I don't know what to make of it. It's remarkable. Yeah, you like it. There's been like a shift of people wanting to they like they want to hear stuff like this. They're they're really excited. To hear like a position of free speech when when a lot of people actually have been kind of railing against it and it's really interesting the type of the times that were in because unfortunately, it's coming from a lot of people on the the far left. There's like this a torrent authoritarian left type of movement taken a foot and that's basically War most people kind of recognized you from because they saw a protest that was going on at your University about it was about Bill c16. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah, well because I made a video that where I express my opposition to the Canadian government's attempts to make certain kinds of speech mandatory and also to oppose the University of Toronto Human Resources departments attempts to impose what I regard as inappropriate. And and likely harmful so-called unconscious anti-bias retraining on the part of their Human Resources employees, which I think is a very dangerous incursion into the civil rights of their staff as well as being based on very poor science in my estimation. So yeah people people people there was a protest as a consequence of that and that got a lot of attention on YouTube and that was one of the things that Drew a lot of attention to my channel so Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's what it's how I found you it's I actually did a video on it and I saw that you tweeted it out. So I was actually like, oh, he's seen it and I I feel I feel strange because like the type of content I make I try to be very light-hearted. I tried to have people I try to be crack a lot of jokes and have people at least have some fun through the madness. So when I was also like seeing that I was like, oh, I wonder I wonder what he thinks because I don't know. I got a real kick out of your out of your coverage. I thought it was really funny and it's funny because some of the best conversations that I've had with people on YouTube so far have been with people who have a who are who have a background in comedy roughly speaking and I think it's partly because people who have a good sense of humor and who have a comical take on things are also likely to tell the truth because there's almost nothing funnier than telling the truth, right? If you say things that other people think but won't say then, you know there that often makes you very funny and I I thought your oh, I think your channel is very comical and witty so well that that I appreciate that a lot because yeah, I like I don't know hearing hearing stuff like that. Sometimes I'm like doubting myself. I don't know Mike should I should I try to be more because excuse me. I'm in I'm kind of I guess I've been shoved in this this community called this skeptic community on YouTube and I do try to be skeptical but at the same time I said I try to be more just on the comedic side. I was thinking about being more. Arias and try to be like say more respected, I guess in the in the in the community that I'm in but I kind of want to just I was like no. No, there's there's enough people. I don't know if you're if you watch say if there's any any YouTubers in particular in particular that you watch I don't know if you've seen say anyone like Sargon of akkad or armor skeptic. Yeah, and have you had any future awesome. I suspected that much especially he just Did a video about it? I saw it recently and that was actually something that I want to ask you about because he was talking about McMaster University. Oh, yeah, and and that's actually something that I wanted. I really I was really interested in and knowing like say was this how do you like your officially like on you just like a Target now, we're now you're being shut down where we've seen it happen to other people people that likes a mildly not Bliss, but you know, he's a I could say a provocateur and It's very telling that they would go out of their way just to shut you down when I don't know. It just seems like you're not saying anything that is irrational. You're not saying anything that is even remotely extreme and I just want to get your take on. How did you feel when you got when you got your shut down at well make my funny thing because when I was there I didn't. Think of it as being shut down and the reason for that is because things aren't exactly what they appear to be any more and so for example now when I go and talk it places the place I'm talking out is barely the place where the event is happening at all. The real event happens on YouTube. And so I went there and I saw these people acting in a very what would you say? Well, it was partly a vulgar manner because they were yelling things at me that were. Just a just asinine just just expect even protesters who had any sense to be shouting. They're they're they're just they're just low-rent insults, you know, low-grade insults and behaving very badly and and laughing about it in on their cell phones and and misbehaving in a very bad way and and having the goal for example to appear. McMaster talk behind a huge Banner with a hammer and sickle on it like as far as I'm concerned I and I really mean this. There is no difference between appearing behind a banner with a hammer and sickle on it and appearing behind a banner with a swastika on it and the fact that you can get away with that at a university and that that's considered. What would you describe it as a reasonable stance in the aftermath of the events of the 20th century where we know that at least a hundred million people were killed by communist totalitarianism is absolutely reprehensible. But when I was at math McMaster, I thought and I thought this ever since that first. The first protest where I where I was shouted down increasingly the appropriate thing to do when surrounded by protesters is to document it and let them let them destroy their own credibility. And so far virtually every time I've had an encounter with the radical social justice types, and I just let them be which which is I think a reasonable approach they've undermined their own position dreadfully. And so I don't think of it being as being shut down at all. I just think about it as another route to Victory and even an effective route because I maybe a hundred and fifty thousand people have watched that protest now at McMaster University may be more far more people than were at the event itself. So yeah. No. Yeah, you're absolutely right it actually I mean it wouldn't this stuff does happen. It does bring it brings these issues to light and it shows just how ridiculous these people are acting and showing that like, you can't take them seriously and I 100 agree about the hammer and sickle thing like 100% because especially when you see what's been happening at say for instance like Trump rallies around the United States were a lot of these people that consider themselves Communists or Marxist or Over or anti-fascist there. Just just beating the hell out of people in the in the name of fighting fascism. It's the most it's the most like it's the most ironic thing that I've witnessed in quite a while. It's pretty it's pretty it's pretty sad to be honest. But like I said, they'll people are in just in droves. Just just trying to shy away from them being like this is not this is not the way to go. And so yeah, it actually is a very good thing that you know will There's the silver lining for you getting screeched at and shouted down and everything. It's a massive Silver Lining because now that I suspect is very frustrating for those who are opposing what I'm doing where if I go speak somewhere and there are no protestors then I get to speak and I'll get a viewing of a couple of hundred thousand people and if I go somewhere and I don't get to speak then that gets a viewing of a couple of hundred thousand people and so at the moment I'm in this extraordinary fortunate position, where as long as I don't do anything to unforgivably stupid and get carried away or get error. Or anything like that that as long as I've cautious as if I keep pushing forward with what I'm doing, then I seem to come out in a positive light either way and that's a great position to be in. It's an amazing position to be undone. It's also been I've learned some really interesting things here as well. So one of the things that's happened you were talking about my YouTube popularity. I could tell you some details about that that you might be interested in first of all. The overwhelming majority of the people who come to see me live and who are watching. My YouTube videos are man. It's about 90% men and you know, you might think that that's because my political stance say doesn't necessarily appeal to women, but I don't think that that's what it is because when I looked at the demographics for my lectures my personality lectures and my other university lectures that I put online since 2013, even before this political issue became Central But say about 85% of the people who were watching. My lecturers were men and that's strange because about 75% of psychology students in universities are female now and so I've been trying to figure out why is it that men are coming to watch me and why is it that men are watching my lectures and what so I've been speaking to the audiences about a variety of different things and I've been concentrating mostly on the right to free speech and in a a political matter in some sense. Like I'm making the case that it's necessary for free speech to be placed above all other political virtues so that no matter who it is no matter who's positioned its being put forward they have an opportunity to engage in political dialogue. But also I've been talking an awful lot about responsibility and responsibility is the other half of Rights, right? Because your rights are my responsibility and my rights are your responsibilities and so I actually can't have a discussion about rights without having a discussion about responsibility unless you're willing to forget about half of the story and the the radical leftists in particular and even the moderates I would say have been pushing this idea that the quality of life that someone enjoys is entirely dependent on the rights that they're granted or the rights that they take to themselves and I've been putting forward a the counter story, which is well, just hold on a minute there guys. You should be concentrating. Training more on responsibilities that you should be upholding in the community and getting your act together as individuals and living in a way that makes you valuable to your family and to your to the broader community and learning how to Bear a heavy load like a civilized human being and the man young man man. They are so hungry for that message just just unbelievable their eyes light up and you know, I've got this program. That I wanted to talk to you about to I designed this program a while back called future authoring and that's available at self authoring.com, and it's a program that helps people write out a plan for their life three to five years down the road. And so what the program asks you some questions it asks you okay. So imagine that you were take care of yourself like you're someone that you were cared for so you're trying to set your life up so that you have a good high. Quality valuable life at however, you want to Define that that's it's up to you to Define it you're asked to think about. Well, what do you want from your friends or who do you want your friends to be? What do you want for your career? How are you going to educate yourself? How can you use your time in a high-quality and productive way outside of side of your obligations? How are you going to handle drugs and alcohol? What do you want for an intimate relationship? How are you going to structure your family, you know the basic think about that is the basic dimensions of a functional life. So next question is if you could have what you wanted, what would that look like and assuming what what you wanted was also best for you, you know that you were heading in a positive direction. So you're asked to think about that and then you're asked to write for 15 minutes without too much concern for grammar or structure about what your life could be like three to five years down the road if it was set up in a manner that you would find Optimal. And then you're asked to write a counter position, which is alright, so think about yourself critically for a minute and then imagine that you let your bad habits and your resentment in your hatred and everything about you. That's that's sub par or suboptimal get the upper hand and it augured you into the ground what sort of hell would you be in three to five years down the road? And so we basically imagine you specify a have them that you can strive for and it held that you want to avoid and that's Sets you up for maximal motivation a because you're running towards something you want and you're running away from something. You don't want and then you're asked to lay out an implementable plan and to come up with detailed rationale for what you're going to pursue. So, okay, so that's all a long story but we've tested this program in a number of universities in Europe and in North America and we found the same thing each time. We found that it it works better for for students who are doing worse. It's not just for students by the way, but we've tested it in students because it was it was an easy population to actually assess its Effectiveness. And so we found that it increased students grade point average by about 25% and decrease the probability that they would drop out of University by about 25% So about so huge effect, but what was really cool was that the biggest effect was on man? And if you look in the universities now and in schools for that matter women are outperforming men. Yeah, definitely and I think it's because the man well, I we don't have to get into why that is but they are but if they do the future author program the men catch up and then here's the kicker this is this is something I think is absolutely fascinating. So when we did our our big study in Holland, I work with a woman there named Michaela shippers and Another professor named Dad she purrs and we ran about 7,000 students through this program now and then we broke them up not only by by by sex but also by ethnicity and so we broke them into male and female and also Dutch national and non-western ethnic minority. And then we looked at their initial performance before they did the program. And so the higher performing people were the Dutch women and then the Dutch And and then the non-western ethnic minority women and then the non-western ethnic minority men who were out underperforming the Dutch women by about 70% So a huge margin and dropping out far more frequently when they did the program the non-western ethnic minority men caught up to the Dutch women and passed them within two years. And interesting no, man that just blew me away and so like because that's that's so unlikely. Right. Usually when you when you produce an intervention that's designed to improve things. First of all, it usually fails. Sometimes it makes things worse. And then even if it does succeed what usually happens is it makes the higher performing people do even better. But that is what this did what it did was take the people who were doing the worst and it increased their performance up to the point where they were indistinguishable from the high performers. And so so there's a bunch of things about that. That's interesting in the first is that people make the claim all the time that say in European communities that if you're a visible minority the reason that you're not attaining the same accomplishment level, let's say is because of sociological or political or economic reasons. But we produced a psychological intervention that help people get their acts together at the individual level to set concrete goals for themselves that they want it and that remove the effects. And so that's one of the things I wanted to talk to you about because you know among your listeners. There are going to be people of All Sorts who are drifting. Yeah, and a lot of what I'm doing when i'm talking to live audience. This is an on YouTube is to is to tell people help people figure out how to get their act together and aim at what they want. But what it what seems to be the case is if you can get men to sit down and think about how they could take responsibility for what they want in a way that would also simultaneously The community their performance goes way up and their quality of life improves and their mental health improves and and I've got like hundreds of letters. Now from people who have listened to the lectures or dumb that program and said that you know, it's turned their life around stop them from being nihilistic stop them from wasting their time constantly and doing foolish things and set them on a path that they regard as much as much more powerful. That's the thing too. It's not the other thing. That isn't talk to young men. Now is that The reason you get your act together so that you have power and influence. Yeah, right. So you get strong and indomitable and so that nobody can get in your way and I don't mean that you become a cruel monster. Although being able to be a cruel monster is actually extremely useful but doesn't mean you should be one but being able to be one is means that you're no pushover and who you know your what kind of man. Are you if you're a pushover. Yeah, you're not good for yourself or anyone else. So So that's been very exciting. Yeah, it sounds amazing. The results are just like that's that's fantastic hearing that stuff. And I totally understand that and it's something that say for example, it's something that I kind of would need where I was even telling one of my friends the other day that you know, I'm like you will you'll you'll succeed much better, especially if you have something mapped out like if you have it if you actually can physically see it if you not just like, you know thinking about and you're bouncing all over the place. It's something that I've I would do a lot and say recently I've been say Okay. I want to get better physically and mentally especially physically and I've just been kind of all over the place and or I was just like, okay, I need to sit down and I really need to figure out what I'm gonna do and I need to I need to actually just write it out. And and this is this is the type of food. I'm going to eat. This is all this. Well when I can actually see it makes it so much easier to just obtain. It's so much easier to it's not just I don't know. I always feel like saying right your head you have so many thoughts. So it's hard to just lock onto one thing. So when you can actually just like focus on to something like that like this program that you have it sounds exactly what a lot of people need something something that like my my friend that I hang out with like every week. It sounds like something that he can really benefit from so and I'm sure he'll watch this because he actually does watch my channel. He's a good guy. For your viewers and I'll send you that you can put it in the lake and your YouTube video link. Oh, definitely. Yeah. Yeah, let's do that. That would be good and I'll send you. Couple of codes to and if you feel like if you if you're inclined to do the program, if you're interested, maybe we can have a conversation about it after you're done. Yeah, I'll give it a shot man. I mean, I'm sure I could benefit from it myself. If especially my my audience knows how how chaotic my life has been how they never know what setting I'm going to have in the background because I move around so much and I mean, I'm just I'm just trying to you know, I'm figuring things out as I go to and I'm very open and honest so I never I don't know. I never I never tried to hide the fact that I just like oh, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm I'm getting pretty old. I mean I'm not old but I mean it just to a standard of I shouldn't be bouncing from place to place because I'm you know, traditionally I should probably have my own spot and and I should be completely focused and established and you know, like I said, just so Obviously latched onto something I mean, you've produced a pretty successful YouTube channel. So how how common how did you manage that? Well, it was I mean from a young age. I always knew that I wanted to entertain people like I just didn't know exactly what I thought it was going to be through music because I always would play music. I always, you know started playing the guitar in the drums and stuff. And when I when I kind of recognize that that wasn't really what I wanted to pursue because of just the my The independent like the independent thoughts on the stuff that I want to do. The visions that I have is very hard to work with people especially when those other people have their own type of visions and Ambitions. So when there was something like YouTube when that became a thing I started just just putting some stuff out there. Like I actually I honestly thought I was going to be like a gaming channel when I first started the channel. That was the first thing that I was going to try to do especially since Gamers were doing so well like I would love to be a part of that Community, but when I All except Free Speech being threatened when I saw the thing that popped up like saying 2014 gamergate and and then there was a little offshoots were a lot of these, you know radical leftist were were going after things like metal and saying that metal is sexist and stuff like that and we need to we need to do something about it. And that's when I started just putting out some content and people were starting to listen and it's no secret that it's no secret that people a lot of people like to listen to me. Because they think like I'm a breath of fresh air, especially, you know, there's this there's and there's a stigma, you know of black Americans where people are so shocked to the oh, wow. It's so nice to meet somebody that's not XYZ and you know, it sucks to say that it's tough to say that but it's just it's just the truth. I mean, you know, the the black men that I know in my area or say that I've met and I've lived in say South Central Los Angeles just smack dab in the middle and it's just unfortunate. It's an unfortunate Community. They're not really interested and like say they can really benefit from a probe that your program because they're they're just not interested in anything and a lot of people that I've met and I've worked a bunch of different jobs. They just they already they feel like they're they're doomed already their their their Destiny has already been set to yeah, they are. People generally realize and you know, here's a couple of things that are that are interesting in that regard. So you you may or may not know that I've done a lot of work on the psychology of religion and one of the things I did was look into the origin of the word sin and strangely enough. So the word sin means essentially to violate the sacred moral code something like that and you can think about that is breaking a rule but that's not exactly the right way to think about it because sometimes It's a sin not to break a rule. You know, if the rule is unjust or or tyrannical or outdated or blind then it's up to you to break the damn Rule and to suffer the consequences. And so to send means more to go against your own spirit and to violate your own spirit and then to violate your own your own proper mode of being you know to not to be true to yourself and it's actually derived from a Greek word and the word is hamar Tia and hamartia is an archery term and it means to miss the center of the target. And so in my in my role as a clinical psychologist, I'm always dealing with helping people. You might think what I'm doing is curing Mental Illness, but that's I don't think that's really what I'm doing. What I'm doing is helping people get their lives together and lots of people come to me not because they have mental illness because they have very very complicated lives. They have their families are fractured or and they're under extreme societal pressure and there are you know, they have economic trouble and maybe they're sick and like It's hard on them and they have real problems. And what we try to do is to figure out what the target is and then figure out how they can hit it and I can tell you a couple of reasons why people fail and one reason is that they don't ever Define what constitutes success they so they never even aim at the Target and my experience has been if you specify a Target intelligently like you can't you don't want to shoot your arrow at a Target that's 50 miles away that you can't see you don't get to hit it you have to put A Target that's pretty close and that that's sort of within your skill level but most of the time if you set up a Target properly and you practice you can hit it and so the idea that people have that they're doomed from the outset. That's that's true if you believe it. Yeah, and I know and I'm not trying to say that that life is equally difficult for everyone and you should just pull up your socks and get at it. I'm not saying that because I know full well that that's not true. But you can overcome a tremendous amount of Of opposition you can you can defeat a very very powerful set of adversaries if you're locked onto goal that you truly value and that and that you've thought through in articulated and writing that down does really help as You observe before the psychological literature on that is very clear. So I would say don't don't make the mistake of assuming that your life is doomed without putting that theory thoroughly to the test and you know the other problem with that idea. This is something that goes along with nihilism is that you might say, well it's pointless and I'm doomed and the world is against me. It's like yeah, the problem is that also gives you an excuse not to take any responsibility. Yeah, and maybe that's the underground reason why you're why you're saying that you're doomed and that everything is stacked against you, you know that and that's not to say that there aren't structural inequalities and all of that because obviously there are so yeah and and that's something that I II 110 agree with you, I think that but I think yeah, I think leaning more towards I think there's a lot of people that just try to opt out and they you know, they don't want to take any responsibility. I think there's a bigger influence of that were there are clearly there are clear-cut examples of people just thriving, you know, Adam through the the worst of circumstances. This video called message to Millennials in New Year's around New Year's and that got to be very popular and I think it was I think I made the future. I think I talked about the future authoring program in that video. But one of the things I thought about was I thought it would be comical in. This was after I came across you. I thought it would be comical if I could run a discount code for the future offering four black guys, but I didn't know how I would do that. But what's the demographics of your lead on your of your viewership? Do you know like who watches you there's a very small amount of my demographic normally is like say a Male, of course and because of that there's there are some some black dudes that just don't even want to that. You know, they want to call me a coon or an Uncle Tom or whatever and they're saying that I'm catering to the the to the white man and all this and it's because that seems like a like it's a curious kind of insult. You know, I mean, I understand being insulted I get insulted but you won't have to wonder sometimes why it's that particular kind of insult that gives directed against someone so why do you think that's being why are you being put down in that particular way? I just feel like I feel like it's there. I feel like there's a lot of people that are just being told to think that way. I don't I don't think genuinely because I never really had that issue. I really didn't have that issue growing up with with like say when I would be in a in a in the black community there were a lot of them because there were some people that just Like say for example that maybe grew up in a private school a little bit and they had a dip a little bit of a different start. Maybe they're an empty vessel and they were just able to just have like books like just literature and didn't really grow up on TV and stuff and that's kind of how I got my start and then from there. I just kind of into the public sphere of school and everything and so most people were pretty cool with me. But then as I started to gain a little bit of notoriety, I started to notice that there's there's quite a few people that and I'm like, where are you getting this thought process from? I'm where I'm like a traitor or I'm a coon if I don't if I'm not exactly like you if I'm not like say, you know, the stereotypical BT black guy that's just only like exclusively in hip-hop. You know, I like I love listen to hip-hop but you know, I also actually like metal a lot more and because of that thing it's like, oh you're you're you're whitewashed or your this and I'm like what why like, why are we it seems particularly dope Think of you as a sellout because you've made yourself a presence on YouTube. It's not like anybody's handed that to you on a silver platter. It was just some I mean that sort of thing is open to anyone and we're in the wild west Frontier Days of YouTube and and you built yourself a following pretty much of your own accord. So I don't see I mean it's obviously some of its going to be to do with resentment and jealousy. You that I met because I imagine sort of thing that generally drives insults. Right but I saw the same similar thing happening. I thought it was very distressing at that Free Speech rally that we talked about there is a kid there who now works for Rebel media Ethiopian guide. He's pretty dark. Oh, yeah. Yeah and and pretty You know and now he's cut himself a good career with Revell media, which is pretty funny. But when he was speaking at the open mic because it was an open Open Mic session the woman who founded black lives matter in Toronto was standing about 12 feet away from them and she yelled Coon Adam about a dozen times and I thought well, she's someone I have who I think is almost utterly contemptible. Yeah, and and because her her behavior generally speaking is Is beyond reprehensible but I thought that was I thought that was a remarkable thing for her to be doing absolutely jaw-droppingly appalling things to thing to do, but I was also curious about why that particular insult. What's that mean to her? I mean, I I wonder that myself. I wonder that myself especially because like reading up with for my understanding of what a coon actually is and what a coon used to be was kind of like the was kind of like the whole the the shucking and jiving term where you had to like turn on you had to like put on like a show to entertain, you know, the the masses or whatever you had to you had to like, you know, for example be Very stereotypical like see a lot of people that a lot of people in the black community the ones that are calling people black people like me a coon or kind of they're actually the ones that are Coons themselves actually the what the way that I'm like. Yeah. It's like yeah and it's like dude it's so it's so embarrassing to see how like The Descent that I get on my channel. I get a lot of valid criticism from people. Sometimes they'll tear me a new a because sometimes I'm just, you know, I deserve it sometimes I deserve it but when It comes to like black people. Usually the ones that have you can visibly see their thumbnails and avatars. It's just it's I actually feel very disappointed because it's usually just an ad hominem. It's usually Coon it's usually sell out I can just do the keyword search and and search coonan. They see the somebody joking around because I was I made a video like about a year ago or something just called like hashtag. I am a coon just basically embracing it kind of showing their I don't really I don't really buckling Don't I really don't care like the ad hominem attacks and just just Petty insults. It it does not affect me at whatsoever. So that was actually I thought I was supposed to make shirts and everything like that, but I kind of got a little bit behind but yeah, just kind of showing people that hey it's you know, whatever just let that just slide off of you and it's that's all that's it's all they have and I just it does kind of break my heart a little bit because I feel like say I would hope that I would be somewhat of like of an example of hey, you know, it's not it's not hopeless like you can you know, it's stop stop talking about systemic racism and and saying that it you know, it's not being a doomsayer and try to better yourself, you know, try to if you're if you're living in a bad situation let how can you get yourself out of it. I always use my mother as an example where she talks about just all the stuff that she went through she went through a lot of stuff and to be able to raise two kids and you'll put us give us a good start and private school private elementary and then on then I went to public school afterwards, but I just gave me a huge advantage to where my mind felt incredibly stimulated to the point where I remember doing like fractions and taxes when I was in first grade dealing with those type of things that were it was very difficult at the time but now like very useful to the point where I do my own taxes, I don't don't have any problems with that. Like people are always a God or know what to do. I got to pay somebody some money and I'm like nah, dude what we're not I think also the insults like there's a there's a there's a kind of challenge that's associated with them too. So if someone if you're enveloped in a particular world view and someone comes up who actually challenges that either by what they say or what they do the first thing you're going to do because you don't want to recalibrate your entire belief system is you're going to Horrible things at them and see if any of them stick. And so I guess partly what happens is that and I mean I've been insulted in that way as well because people have called me a bigot and and at restful been and I was protected against that to some degree I think because I'd already put 500 hours of videos online. And so if I was any of those reprehensible things people probably could have found that out pretty quickly by going through the material that I had put online. Because I almost every word I've uttered to students in the last five years has been recorded and is publicly accessible. So if there was anything in in what I was saying or what I believe that was actually it actually deserved that kind of derogatory classification that it would have been found out very rapidly, but it's also the case. I think that people when they throw those sorts of things that you there's a part of them that's hoping that you can Withstand it and tell them exactly why they're wrong just on the off chance that you're the real thing. And so, you know, your you've got a certain amount of success that you generated yourself. And so people are going to say well you sold out and then they're going to sit back and watch and see what you say. It's like, well I said he's sold out. Maybe it's true, but maybe he can defend himself to so it sounded like people will throw the worst that they can at you and see if you can withstand it and that's part of the way they test to see if they actually should pay any attention to you. And so so how come how come you're able to let the insults? Let's say, why do you why do they I mean they must bother you to some degree, but they don't bother you that much and you don't let them stop you and why is that? Well, it's the only thing like that that the only thing that bothers me is like say the insults when it when it comes to especially when it comes on when it's race-related. Those are bother me or the ones I like say when it comes from when black people General the ones that I would because I feel like say my content could help out some black Americans. I've made some videos about saying no stop basically stopped just thinking that they're the world's against you stop just thinking that the United States is that systemic systemic racist system in 2017 or whatever and you can't there's just no point of trying like stop telling your children that you know, like give them a give them a boost. I would think that they would help me out. So that's the only time when they say stuff to me like that. At everybody else. I've been on the internet for so long that people are just going to talk and say some of the worst things and most times they would never say it to your face. They would never most people now it's starting to but now I'm starting to see a shift though, especially from looking at the protest and the speeches that you're trying to give him and when people are trying to shut them down what I'm seeing is what normally used to just be fantasy becoming reality and like in the entire Spectrum. We're like say if You've ever I don't know if you've ever actually been on Tumblr.com. I know if you've actually logged on their butts a a lot of yeah, I it is. I would say that a lot of stuff that you hear nowadays like when you hear about gendered pronouns, the z's are and all the weird things that are coming up foot and the other Ken and people just being just mean and just nasty just a lot of that stuff. I would see that was Tumblr. Like I've never heard of any type of you know, a hundred different type of pronouns until Tumblr and and I don't know what this was like the the safe space for them, I guess. And now it's do you think Tumblr is like that? Why do you think that's focused there? I've wondered that myself. I will I have a friend that Irish. I respect her greatly, but she's one of those people that you know changes her name and her and her pronouns and then this and that and had a boyfriend that you know, you has a beard and stuff but he's like call me she and I'm like, okay sure but and I'm trying to figure out like what where I can't find the root and and seeing like is was there like a giant presence of maybe a public figure that maybe started talking about these ideas because I don't know the only thing the earliest thing that I can really find. I remember like say back in 2011. I started seeing a trend happen in a Texas where it was being wolves those around that Twilight movies this the Twilight started to come out. Maybe it was even younger because I think that's why let's were yeah came out a while ago the movies but um, I started seeing that a bunch of people are starting to dress like wolves are putting tails on and all these things and I was starting to see stuff like that and maybe it was just the pop culture things like that were making it socially acceptable and then it started to be discussed on forums and everything that maybe Tumblr I don't know how it became the the the ground zero but it seems like that for me and now it's just being translated into Academia like your start. Okay, so that's interesting because you know, what? The third about with all this identity transformation and and this includes not only that sort of gender. Let's call it play that that you're talking about. But also that other kin Universe looks a lot to me like the sort of fantasy play that's characteristic of kids when they're about ages say from about four to about nine or maybe 4 to 11, you know, that that would be the the maximal extent of it and I wonder to some degree of what happening, is that because Because I don't think that modern kids get enough chance to engage in fantasy play like like pretend play like they did 30 or 40 years ago that maybe that was that's being pushed aside by by mass media. It's being pushed aside by computers and video games. It's been pushed aside by cell phones and it's also less common because children's play is so structured now partly because they don't have very many siblings and play dates or setup and kids lives. Paper structured and so kids have to go through that pretend play period and I'm wondering if maybe because we've suppressed that in our society if it's blossoming out in universities when kids get away from their parents and can start to experiment with their own identity if they if they're doing that through in a because it looks like pretend play I'm going to pretend to be a boy. I'm going to pretend to be a girl. I'm going to pretend to be an animal. I'm going to pretend to be a A werewolf. It's fantasy play and there's a lot of objection would people say well I'm not going to play your game. You could play your game, but I'm not going you don't have any right to compel me to play your game. But it may be that there's a developmental impulse that's being manifest there. That didn't get its chance to express itself at the proper stage of development something like that Isaac strange it is and I feel like there's definitely some type of correlation because When I was when I was a kid and when you were going out, we were like I was I'm old enough to where we didn't have any type of Technology other than like say the Super Nintendo was was like, oh this is amazing and I would take the bus. I kind of need the kids can do this anymore just take public transportation. I'll be back by Sundown. I would go to another city. Sometimes I'll just go ride my bike and me and my friends would have liked missions. We would do crazy stuff and we hugely like I wish I recorded some of this stuff so I can I can remember it but my point is that yeah, definitely kids will have anything like that and like I said the with the mass media with with the video games as much as I love video games, there is so much structure that you can't really you can't really Branch out and really create that you're very limited to what you can do even would like video games when you can like create a character and stuff. Sometimes that's as far as it can go but you're still kind of limited to where you where you can go. You can't fantasize. It's why I say I still like I still love reading books, right? As you can just you create your own world in it. And then sometimes if you're somebody's read the same book, you can compare and contrast me. Like how do you see this character? Even though if sometimes they describe them, you'll still have an imagery. Yeah how they look and I think that point because I think what happened in part was that, you know kids engage in pretend play when they're too young to read but then when they start reading fiction, they are still engaging in pretend play because they have to imagine the characters. whereas in movies and in video games, the characters are basically put forth for them and that and that there's utility in that because they're you there can be additional structure but a lot but the problem is is that additional structure also stops you from having to use your imagination and it's it's through your imagination that you experiment with all the different things that you could be and maybe that's just being pushed later into development now and that's why the young people are so outraged when you when you violate their their The identity, you know, they look like kids playing to me except that the really they're too old to be doing that. Yeah, I mean and that's war and that's why it's so it's so absurd to me that say something like c16. It could even be like past or that there's even a need for it that there's because like I said, it does seem like make-believe and pretend and it's like, how are you taking how can you take this? Seriously, how could you take this seriously and and and what's happening it also? Also seems like such a major regression like something that you're trying to hammer down on like say on Free Speech or P. You can get in trouble by misusing someone's pronouns and then now recently m103 motion. The motion has been brought up and what has been going on within one with the m103. Have you been keeping up with that? Oh, yeah. Well Well, one of the things that's happening. That's really interesting. Is that as far as I'm concerned? So I'm going to do a couple of lecture series or a lecture Series in the next year and and I'm starting in May and what I want to do is start at the beginning of the Bible and talk about the psychological significance of all the stories right from the beginning to the end. But I also and this is something I the nibs my patreon funding is helping me with this and then there's something else that I want to do in parallel, which is that I started talking to a group of moderate. It's about a week and a half ago. Well and and some a couple of months ago very very smart people in very committed and they want to put forth. They want to start the process of describing what a reformed and moderate Islam might be and so and I think that's the right way to go with regards to the tension that exists between the west and and the Islamic world or even within Canada. between there isn't a lot of tension in Canada. Yeah about anything really but to the degree that there is tension what needs to be done between new immigrant communities and the communities that they're integrated to obviously is for a dialogue of consensus to be to be started and hopefully that I'm going to engage in that and that's the proper way to fight islamophobia, but the current government insisted that this motion which is it's not a bill it's just emotion, which is expression of commitment on the part of parliament to go and study an issue or to make a moral stance on an issue and they described the concern with emergent islamophobia and the opposition parties in Canada complained about the specification of Islam. In this in the wording of this motion and said well look we can we all support an anti Prejudice and anti-harassment and anti-discrimination motion across religions. No problem. But if you use that word islamophobia specifically we're not going to support it. And so they offered to the to the current government the possibility of unanimous consent for the motion, but The Originators of the bill wouldn't withdraw the wording which I thought was absolutely appalling because islamophobia. A really? It's not a good word stress of all, it takes a medical term phobia and uses it politically which is really a treacherous and sneaky thing to do and second. It specifies a specific religion when there's no evidence that that religion is being specifically targeted. I mean it might there's no real evidence in Canada that that adherence of that religion are suffering for many more discrimination than the adherents of other minority religions or even the adherence of so called majority religions, so it was a very bad idea but and so I think this other approach is better and and so my I publicly opposed m103 with a certain amount of the theft because I'd be talking to the people who who are running for the leadership of the official opposition in Canada the conservative party and I've talked to a number of them about m103 and about also issues of responsibility among young men because the conservatives finally have something to sell young people and they never have if for the first time in the history of During my lifetime. Anyways, the conservatives have something to sell to young people and that's responsibility. And so we've also been talking a lot about that. But so there was some opposition damn 103 and I think the proper way to progress without to reduce the tension between the Islamic World in general but also Islamic newcomers in Canada, and and longer-term Canadians is to engage in a dialogue with moderate people and I hope that that's going to get off the ground. We've got the Ball rolling and some very impressive people already on board. We've got the ball rolling for that and I hope I'm going to play a role in that so that would be really exciting. It would be really fun to do that in parallel with this biblical Series. So because then I can approach the fundamental stories of Judaism and Christianity at the same time as engaging in a public discussion about the meaning of Islam and the implications of Islamic belief for for for the broader political culture. So that's Exciting opportunity no doubt about it. Yeah, that sounds great. And it sounds like oh man a great way to go about it too. If you can do those things simultaneously, especially so it there can't be any talk about like, oh, he's just criticizing Islam or or whatever. When you also you're just you're you're talking about just religion that kind of across the board, you know, and I'm trying to understand it. Yeah, and that I think a lot of people are too and I think that's kind of like what's so frustrating about what's been happening and things like say m103 even like existing or say something for quite some time on YouTube that just there are certain words that if you put it in your title your tags, like your video would be demonetised. They're saying it's Advertiser. It is an Advertiser friendly and you know, sometimes you wouldn't even be saying anything harsh. I like say sometimes I'll say I would just love to have an honest and open dialect about Islam because I think there's a lot of people that don't understand it. Now. There was a lot of people that are just like All Muslims are this and I've seen quite a few people that are like them. Like wow, I think we need to talk about this. Yeah, and and people don't want to talk about it because people that were full-time you're not going to make any money off of it and it sucks. Like I feel like it's such more of a important issue that I would just I would like say I put out a video of this this talking about what happened in London not too long ago just because I and I knew I was gonna get you monetize my like why not. I want to just at least put it out there and just saying can we can we can we talk about this can we can we be Honest and say that there's definitely some type of issues and like on both sides. There's there's just you know, there's a lack of communication and I think you know what you're what you're going to do is is fantastic because it's it's desperately needed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, I'm fortunate because last April when I set up my Patron account, which was way before this political political issue exploded. I did it mostly out of curiosity because you know, I was making I would say fairly low quality videos from a production perspective. I was just using an iPad on a on a tripod. I was just using an iPad on a tripod and and I thought well, maybe I could you know, I by that time I'd had about a million views and I thought wow that's that's a lot man. If I wrote a book that sold a million copies, I'd be dancing a jig out on the street. So I was really starting to take YouTube seriously because I thought I thought about it for a while and I thought well all I see what's happening. This is this is like a Gutenberg Revolution. It's the first time in human history where the spoken word has as much reach as a book. And as much permanency and that's a whole new thing man. And and it's way faster than a book. Like you can as you know, you can well this video we're making right now we can have this published and in front of an audience and immense audience and attract a couple of hundred thousand viewers within a few days. It's unparalleled and so I get all set up a patreon account because that was a new thing to and because I was I've been really curious about how creative people can monetize what they're doing and it's very difficult. And so So I was looking into that and I found Patron and I thought well, I'll set up a patreon account see what happened. But I was fortunate because I decided not to use Advertiser generated revenue on YouTube. I decided to use Patron and I didn't know it at the time but that also made me more or less immune to threats of such things as D monetization. Yeah, you know which is which is a form of it's not exactly a form of censorship. It's Morris. It's more like it's more like an attempt to turn the The tremendous diversity of Music on YouTube into elevator music, right? Yeah be contentious because then you can't sell advertising on it. Well if it's not contentious and interesting no one's going to watch it. So it's a it's a suicide Louvre in some sense on the part of the advertisers because everything is sanitized YouTube that all that's going to happen is another another free speech video site is going to pop up and people are all going to flock there in no time flat. Like it's yeah it long. Term suicidal move, but but there are ways to protect yourself against it and patreon seems to be an interesting way of doing that. How many how many YouTube videos have you had demonetized? I've had I've luckily I haven't had too many. I probably had a total like six and the the the ones that the main ones that have been demonetized were the were pretty old and I wasn't really going to generate any money for them anyways, so it was and but however this Month, I've had one of them that was one of my better videos the or at least it did better. It was a one about the attack in London and that was immediately to monetize and I was just like well, okay fine and then another one because because of the whole ad hysteria with a bunch of the companies pulling out. Yeah, they started to crack down a little bit harder and they I responded to there's this company called Mike and they just still put out a bunch of Nonsense, like a lot of people are starting to pull back a little bit on their social justice Warrior Ultra Progressive nonsense, but they're still pushing on and they had a video called like things white people killed in 2016 now just like a bunch of Trends right dancing moves and all this stuff saying that if white people do it, it's you know, it's cringy and stuff. I'm like it and it's still, you know, just being it's that's only true for nerdy. It's right. I mean that's really what it comes down to like but I got me and it comes on even like say I mean just nerdy people in general when you see people dance or do something that just have no rhythm. It's just so cringy why you just can't look you get the second hand embarrassment. Right? And but yeah, they just put out some ridiculous stuff. So I reacted to that and that video did very well and that got demonetized recently. So I'm like, oh great so I'm not gonna get anything from that anymore what one last thing. I want to ask you because people really wanted to know what is Your opinion on pineapple pizza as a topping not well pineapple is a time you hate you hate Pizza. I used to work at a pizza restaurant and I Learned was that you actually have a lifetime maximum of pizza ingestion. And once you hit that you can't actually eat any more pizza and so I hit that when I was about 16 because I worked in a pizza restaurant for about four years. And so I ate my 10,000 pizza and that was like, oh, that's it man that there's something about the spice I It might be a Reagan. Oh that's specific spice that I don't like and so even covering it up with pineapple that would improve it but it still makes it difficult for me to eat pizza. All right fair enough fair enough. All right. All right, sounds good. All right, dr. Peterson. Thank you so much for taking the time out of your and I'm sure you're insanely busy schedule to talk to me man. It's been an absolute honor its and it was real fun, and I wish you the best of luck truly and I hope you I hope you get your self oriented and and Knock Em Dead good most definitely man. Thanks. Again. I appreciate it. All right. All right. Bye this podcast is brought to you and made possible by generous financial aid from Peter Ken's Le K. Ay n z l-- e-- r-- you can buy his Amazon books. At your favorite Amazon Branch, for example, the original texts of lock Hobbs and the US Constitution of Pennsylvania put together into one book for only $15. Thanks for listening.
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