But the other stuff.We're talking about funny taste like yeah. Yeah, it's called telephony funny story of funny story crime scene story. Yeah a gerbil crawl out of a guys are something like that. I got something close to that. Really. I'm not that's alright. So we're back man. Did I mention how hot it was the first episode know? I didn't we're part of a heat wave right now. What is today July 23rd that a little bit is the 22nd 22nd, and we had to Friday and Saturday works. It's gotten Sunday to right. Right and you look in the my built-in pool and you can't even go in it. Yeah, I didn't wear anything except my tighty-whities kind of borrow your shorts. You have shorts and my pool we come on man. Let me bars don't want to wipe our something very short, but you guys get me into over here. I don't care. You have to wash it first. Thanks for not wearing a bulletproof vest and if I went to a detail in the summer, I never want my vest. I didn't care who it was like, you know, what fuck it. Shoot me. I don't give a shit. I don't give a shit. Remember the light blue shirts that you can tell by the sweat stains. They were always think it's videoing out of the windows used to pull your vest out like this and then explain would come out. If s you can see it pouring that's how what how hard it was. Yeah. Oh man. It's I don't ever want to be that hard to get my guns coming out like it's amazing what you can get used to though it is right, you know, like mentally you had to prepare yourself for being out in the street during this heat in a vest. Yep, all the gun belt to especially with when we got the the nine millimeters. Yeah, that goes that one's dug it dug into your hip. Yeah, I don't know how guys got I'm sure if you look at the skeletons of police officers who had a have that 9-millimeter rig. That's the worst digging into their for guaranteeing like a little thing on their leg for the gas man. I think I used to show up and they'd be looking for that kind of stuff skateboard. Yeah. I got lucky. See that I never got one but I never would have said what I wouldn't bring it. I didn't care you I thought you were wearing that as a shower cap. What's that? The gas mask a put you know, you pull it over there - mess that we used to get that was that that was it. That was the joke. You wouldn't work. Anyway, right now, I'm not talking about the hood had like two minutes saying it took in about the hood that when this way, you know not hold it over your head, but the mascot. Yeah, but it only gave you like three minutes worth it. He said you could run out of the subway as everyone else is dying around you that looks Good a bunch of cops with a snake was running up the stairs. Yeah, as all these children are dying around God. I have this gas mask runs afford. That looks dangerous and thank God I have this gas price. It was me. It was me. Well, I was teaching CPR they had that one of the slides that you see is you open the door and you see two people on the floor. So it's the the scene is set. So it's like One person obviously touch something that had or let go of a gas it was about how to deal with people when they go into cardiac arrest Cardiac Arrest when they breed something in and then if there's a second body there that's when you know, usually that person went to go help them and they passed out to which is your sign to closed or get the fuck out of there. Somebody call crime scene. I went to support me when I was a young sergeant and I walk inside and it's guys Bed doas got a needle in his arm and his two friends that as like somber this young female cops is she goes he's dead sausage and all sudden these two guys perked up and they started doing like the version of junky CPR. One of them has a cigarette in his mouth where the - about 3 inches long. It's gonna come on motherfucker. I'm like, it was so fun. I mean the guys dead. It's not funny shouldn't laugh picturing to - drops in the dead guy's face, and I'm like guys, you know, He's I think he's alive. He's still moving drugs. Give me a minute. He'll stop right. So let's get to some cases here. One of the cases that you wanted to talk about that you brought in here was Walter Scott. Tell us start from the beginning with Walter Scott. Yes. So the Walter Scott shooting was who was Walter Scott Walker Scott was he was a guy that lived in North Charleston been in and out. It wasn't like a hardcore perp like, you know violent offender, but he was Control Charleston County North Carolina, North Charleston, North Carolina. Okay, I mean, South Carolina. Yeah. So so essentially everybody's seen the video of this on TV, right? There's there's a black guy running away and police officer shooting at them right and then he goes down and it's it was International case. I had people that I work with, you know, blood stain pattern in the Netherlands that are email me stuff about the case that they're getting out there. And everything so I had stuff. I did some work for Randy Savage. He's an attorney down in Charleston North South Carolina, and he's a character and it was one of those connections. Where did you ever do any Media stuff? Right like like talking to the media member Joe Jack alone did a lot of Media stuff and all that. I started he did some of that too. Right? But but they always get it wrong, right and then like for me if they misquote me in the New York Times and then I'm being cross-examined on a Stan they said well when this happens don't you do this and I say no you don't do that. And then it is not what you said in this article. I'm letting you know they miss quoted me. They always miss quoted me some I'm walking through this is so this is right after we had Ferguson Missouri, right? We had Michael Martin brown, right I get a phone yo, yo, how are you involved in these cases? You're already retired at this point. Yeah. So you're working privately. Yeah your own business and these lawyers are hiring you. Yeah for this forensic. Expertise, so, you know that that's why you went down to North Charleston, South Carolina. Yeah. Exactly. Okay. Yeah, it's being hired privately. So I had met and he stabbed I got quoted by the New York Times on the Ferguson case and then I got a phone call from this really powerful attorney down in Charleston and he's like a giant Sandy Savage out. So Richard said in the times I want I want you to work with me. So I did a couple cases with him. All right, I didn't realize how many murders around Charleston you know, right if you think about like, New York. See the homicide Squad went down to 50 homicides. It's nothing but you know, so I'm down there in Charleston. He goes you got to set up an office here. We don't have anybody down here does what you do? I see you can't have that many homicides is I get back home. Just call me another one. He's got another one. It's got another one. There's all kinds of stuff going on down there. So so I'd work with Andy and I saw that video on the television where this this guy's African-American males running away from police officer pop have fires. Aah It's at the guy the guy goes down at that looks bad right there. And and first I show a car stopped is what the TV shows you show you a car stopped and they show the guy running then they show him being shot. Then they show the cop going to get a taser. It picks up his taser and drops it down next to the body. Right? I said this is bad, you know, like usually we don't rush to judgment because we know there's so much more to a case and what we're ever going to see how many cases have yours. Have you seen on the news and you're like that? Even my case is it then he like like close? Yeah, there's so far off and you'll notice they make up the things they don't know. They just make it up. Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story, you know? Yeah, so but that one I judge right away. I said, ah, you know fuck this guy's right. This is because everybody's anti-cop that I call that period like the blue scareware. The media was all about cops are just murdering raced. It's that's all they are. Right? So so now in the middle of this here comes Michael slager shooting this guy down so I took the you Tube video and I email it down to Andy. I'm like what the fuck's wrong with you guys down there, you know, you can get control your cops and he emails me back. This is my case. Get your ass down here, right? So I call them up and you go down there. How long you did you ever set up the office down there? No, I never did know but what do you stay in a hotel? I stay at Andy's house usually phenomenal delusional. Don't forget. I've been down there to three weeks at a time. Okay, and then you come back over here to your house over here. Yeah to at 250 an hour. Well, I was only one $75 175 but you trust him eight hours to 24 hour day. No, no. No, I have you thinking about stuff very drunk very conservative. God have mercy on his attorneys because they have mercy on people that happens. If you wake up in the middle of the night and you solve the crime now, you got to you got to write it down you open up the case in the middle of the night. Yeah. I mean, it's not about Texas it. Listen. I'm on the clock. It was this case a lot of it. I ended up most of my time. I didn't end up charging any paid out of his pocket for all the experts and everything like that. It was because we but we believed in and once we saw, It really happened. Who was that? What did you believe in? Tell us what so he was representing Michael slager. So so Andy used to be the PBC cop? Yeah. He's the cop Michael slager shooter. Yeah the shooter so Andy used to be the PBA attorney for Charleston is very very famous down there. He was Charleston PD's PBA attorney and he also handled Charleston County and a lot of guys, right so so he was well respected by the cops. And so so slager's attorney. So this whole thing happens slager gets his PBA attorney the video hasn't Not yet. He tells his attorney. You know. Listen, this is what happened had the taser. He took the taser from me, but of ABCD he goes. All right, so they go in and the lawyer doesn't even open a folder. He doesn't even write anything down and he goes in there to represent them. And then so that's sled took the case, which is South Carolina law enforcement District, which is their state agency right there like the the tops of the special State prosecutor. Yeah, so whether they're like a steak specifications Now they're trying to make it so that they do all police involved because they don't want you. They don't want the agency involved to investigate their own so sled had the case and they sit down with the lawyer and Mike and they do a reenactment and nobody nobody videotapes this thing nothing, right. So Mike's re-enacting it with the investigator that works for the attorney. Nobody took pictures. Nobody did nothing and then sled says, well we want to show you a video and they show them the video just that clip like pop pop pop ow, and the Goes to Mike he goes, you're a fucking liar and he was like leaves them like just walks out on him and sled collars them. Right his wife's two weeks away from getting from giving birth, right? So now so now this is what we got. All I have is what I saw in the thing and so I call Andy up I said, what do you want me to do and I'm thinking like if this is NYPD, this is only a few days after it happened that seems going to be closed. There's going to be bulldozers there. They're going to have like 50 cops sift in every damn grain of sand in that place, right so someone It down there just brought a couple things with me and I go down there and he goes come down here. The state's going to give me all the doc. What do you bring with you? It depends on what it is. You know, like I'm going to go do a scene on Thursday where there was like a stabbing and fire and stuff like that. So I'm not going to really bring my my ballistic trajectory rods or any stuff like that because I'm not going to reconstruct the shooting but pretty much everything else is in play and I was like, I'm taking a plane how hard is it going to play with all that? Of dogs almost passed by drive it I was driving to Charleston here. Like yeah, it's a scientist got test tubes in the enemy to me. You have looks like a bomb, you know, like they say you can't get a lot of things. You look like. You're ready to go. Do a homicide. Yeah is a noose. Yeah duct tape a ski mask you have weird stuff laying around your house in this business, right? You know, I remember Was Won by this like women's clothing store near like closing sale. Everything's everything must be sold, you know, some guy go in there and woman's life. Can I help you? You know I had like a couple days growth of beard. You know like yeah selling the mannequins get the fuck. I'm like Maui. What do you want with the mannequins? I'm like, well, sometimes I need to shoot them and you know, if I put bloody clothes on the him and she's like because it because actually when you think about it when clothes are in 3D, right? So when you examine clothing you look at it in two Dimensions, right? So if you got a blood stain over here, and it's laying flat it's going to look like it's on your back, but it's not on your back and you don't really realize it. You put it on something what cylinder filled these three-dimensional so mannequins kind of Handy to have and sometimes when you're doing a reenactment of something to have a mannequin that you could put some clothes on put a bloody foot that you shouldn't, you know, they want to Triple the price of the mannequin. I tried to buy one for the college once and they will get a little bit of style. Like are you are you yeah, my nana and I had the price new. Yeah. I said it's cheaper new you are so you know an Amazon really? Yeah, I guess I could imagine girls walking into your apartment. Be like, whoa, let's get a look at that. If you got mannequins, what's the names all over the place blood? It's like a blood cleaning kit rise, like Rocky. He goes into the practices Galas by the bone with a bad other piece of meat, you know and the chicken run gallons of clean up stuff like blood clean up stuff aluminum. All right the luminol yes, but it's Rob could drop cloth, don't you feel safe. So if so what happened he went. Yeah, so we're just Anyway, you stuff for yeah. Well, I didn't bring that much stuff because he said we're just going to get some documents. You know, I didn't think the scene would even be released yet, you know, and so I get down there and he goes they still haven't given me anything. He goes. Why don't you just go look at the scene? I'm like I can we get anywhere near that place. He goes. Yeah, my investigator will take you there. So I went I went with this guy. There's nobody there. There's no current no tape. No nothing, right? So I'm like, all right. Well, whatever right so all I had was like a point and shoot camera and a couple things. And so we take we take an iPad and we put the video up and we do what's called like photogrammetry only. This is like total amateur stuff. But photogrammetry is where you take something that exists in a scene and you can actually get some perspective from it like the relationship from one object to another right? So I got the video paused where you see Mike shooting like this and you can see the branch of a tree and then you can see a telephone pole and you can see about where he was standing I said I said I said to the investigators catch Russell great guy great guy and he was a Charleston PD cap. So I go walking over to the walkway where about where slager was standing? I'm like, all right, you know so dude, there's an Alleyway and then there's a bullet hole in that fence over there. So we go over to the Bullet Hole and we're looking and there's leaves all around the ground and stuff like that. And now I have nothing no, no paperwork nothing. I don't know how many bullets they recovered. I don't know anything. So no autopsy report. I got nothing. So we look at the Bullet Hole. There's like a fence like 90 degree fence. It goes in one corner goes out the other corner and the leaves underneath it would like totally undisturbed and I'm like that. You know, like I said if this was NYPD is place would have been bulldozed right? So I'm like I said the Steve I said, well, you got to take me to your forensic supply store. He goes. Oh, we don't have one of those down here I go. You don't have a Home Depot. He goes all Home Depot. All right. Yeah, so go to you know, get some dowels you get like the wheel to do some measurements some string and all that stuff as we can. We could put this all together. So we're starting to figure out the flight path of the of the bullet and I said to Steve I go there's got to be something in those leaves right there. Right because bullet went through two pieces of stockade fence. There was a wall not too far away. Like I can't understand why these leaves are undisturbed. He goes I got my son's metal detector in the car. Like for a 15 year old kid pulls it out nine volt battery, you know, it's dead, you know. Yeah get another one put it in there. So we're going through the leaves PPP. Because there's a bullet. All right, and I look at this bullet and it's got like striations on it. Like it slid across the pavement, right? So it's all it's all jacked up this bullet I go that's pretty amazing. I said, but that's not the bullet. I want I said keep looking right beep beep beep. There's another bullet. It's perfectly intact and it's a hollow point and there's wood and then in the nose of the hollow point, I like it passed through the fence and then there's white paint on the base of it. Right? So like if a bullet Travels through to intermediate targets like that. It becomes destabilize. You're not picking this shit up till you photograph it. Right? Right. Exactly. Yeah, so we leave it in. You know, I know people are saying I would have picked it right up. I know you I'm seeing guy you're going to photograph it exactly for you because where it is is very important. Yes, not that relation to everything else. Yeah. So so you think about football right? Like boats. I always use like a football analogy when somebody throws a pass and somebody else tips it and the ball. Starts to Tumble, right? So that's what happens when a bullet strikes something it becomes destabilized and it'll start to Tumble. So the white paint on the base of the bullet was significant because it's a white wall across from this fence. So the Bullet tumbled hit the wall and it bounced back into the leaves, right? So so we call Andy up. And say that a well we're finding fucking evidence here, you know, and he goes just he goes look he goes you got to notify. There's like a protocol. You got to notify the Charleston County Sheriff's and they got to notify sled right and thence little come down and collect the evidence. He said so you really, you know, those don't collect anything, you know kind of put the brakes on he goes, but before you notify these guys just start getting your measurements get everything you need to do your diagram or whatever you're going to do down there. So, A couple things we call the county sheriff's, you know, here we are. I don't want to get involved in this shit down, right? Oh, no, they're actually pretty good. I'll tell you I'll tell you why because I run into this a lot. Like right. It's like, oh you work for the fucking defense now, he's like from New York, you know. Yeah to yeah forget about it right down here. So but the thing is like forensics. What's good about that is no matter what you're trying to find the truth. Right? Thank cuz I've had so many cases where guy calls me up. Hey, my guy said this didn't happen in our I'm like listen. Let me just look at it. I'll do my analysis. You tell me what he said later. So what's your guy say? He says ABCD I'm like he's full of shit, you know, so I mean it is what it is what it is, you know, and so technically like a true crime scene guy will have the same story whether he's working for the prosecution if you know because physical evidence doesn't lie exactly do right, right. Yeah. So yeah, we're down there we're looking for the seven it so we find a 7 is Charleston County shows up and yeah who you are trying retired NYPD Who you working for Andy Savage Oh Andy, he's a good guy. Yeah had a shooting he represented me. So I had like a good acceptance with these guys and Steve knew the guys to he was a Charleston guy. So now sled comes down and I'm taking my measurements whatever pictures I needed to take the start start doing a diagram and they're like, would you consent to it, you know giving us a DNA swab I should have you know what they said, but write a statement for what happened. So I wrote Up how we found the bullets and stuff like that. And so then we get the paperwork couple weeks later when the DNA swab for view, but they said did you touch it, you know, and I was like no I didn't actually didn't because I had Flags, you know those flags for your garden, you know the so they were to evidence markers. So I put him you know, but they're So eventually I did give me the chase cross-contamination see if yeah, exactly right could you do it but not at that point but I did later on right. So what were you arrested for motorists? You know when you think about it, if your DNA ever ended up in CODIS think about before DNA was even out there how many crime scenes we probably left our DNA at yeah, you know, I used to tell guys that say listen everyone. If you touch something you can explain it, you know, so if your DNA is at a crime scene, you could probably explain it unless it's like semen or something and you know, then you got a problem right? But so now it's light and come on it so slide comes in. And you know, I talked to them they were they were cordial with me and everything and then we get the documents and I'm reading through the documents and they said they did ABCD starting to look at some stuff. They did they own they didn't find one bullet. They never canvass the area never never knocked on anybody's door. So here's a shooting that's going on eight shots are fired. Don't you want to see if like granny is took a bullet shoot a window? Yeah police-involved shooting that's a shitty investigation. It's a rent it gets worse and worse it gets worse and where they stand and they could have done this guy. Such a big favor if they did if they did everything because so I'll go through like a little by little right. So now I look and I see that they were at the crime scene the FBI the solicitor's office solicitors a prosecutor down there solicitors off his sled the local PD whatever and the solicitor says are the next move we're going to do aerial photos, right? So and I remember when I was there there was a photographer for the New York Times there and then it was a helicopter flying around but it's such a big media. Story, I'm like, all right, they're probably all with the media whatever. So so now I see that they would they decided to take aerial photos. And I said the and I said, you got to get me that disc of aerial photo. So when we get the disc of the aerial photos, I'm looking and there's me and Steve on the ground finding their fucking evidence. What are in a helicopter flying around like they just sort of and from the prosecutor standpoint. How do you get better than that video? Right. How do you get better than the guy running away getting shot at you know, so you did. I really didn't want to go dig too deep into this case. So so now if you read slager's statements, he never made a report if you can if you look at the early news reports they say, oh he lied on his report. He lied on his repeat never made a report never even wrote a report but he made statements to supervisors and he said so what happens is he leaves his car like Walter Scott. He does a car stopped and you can hear on his body mic and everything. Very professional. He's like, how you doing? I'm officer slager. From North Charleston Police Department. I see your license registration and Walter Scott's like I said hes an air do well he's not like, you know hardcore perp, but you know, he's done some stuff. He's been fired from a lot of jobs Coast Guard everything for cocaine use all the stuff. So he's scrambling because he's got no insurance card. He's you know, the car is totally illegal. But Mike gets his driver's license from doesn't even know if it's him anyway, so he takes off running. And Mike says stop or I'll tase you and you can hear very clearly and then he says Taser Taser Taser. That's exactly what their training is. And if you know Mike he's like a robot everything everything in his life is like, you know methodical cording to procedure, you know, so he does Taser Taser Taser boom. He shoots the first cartridge. So the taser works with the cartridge not like the taser. We had that big thing that was like the size of a microwave when it was two things, you know, so he puts the cartridge on and he fires and hits total Miss, right? What happens is That cartridges deployed. There's little pieces of confetti right call that a feeds that come out of the cartridge and they're all over the ground. So now you can get an idea where the first taser shot took place takes that cartridge off puts another cartridge on Fires at Walter Scott goes down, right, but before he fires the first cartridge Walter Scott's going like this behind them. It's called they call it the windshield wiper, right? And that's to defeat the taser. You might be get lucky and not the darts out. Yeah before they hit you so this is another way to defeat the taser. Is to dive to the ground, right? So he fires a second one. He goes to the ground. It was proved that he was never taste wouldn't with the docks. He had one Dart in him from the second one, but nothing from the first one so he was never getting Zapped. So Mike says, I fired the two cartridges and then I used the taser to drive stun him, right? If you take the cartridge off then it's like a stun gun. You got the two prongs on there and stuff. This is the taser have something inside of it to can find you something else are often. And GPS II know the number one like that, you know like that. It sounds stupid but like a heat-seeking missiles are no nothing like that because they always seem to hit their target and a lot of times it's always like they're always running away from chubby cops. I think I can catch the guy but he still manages to hit him with the taste. Right? Right. It's always like this coffee something right? Yeah. I think these had like a 25 footer or something like that. Yeah law enforcement's come a long way since my my days as a so now they have cameras on them. Well, yeah, but it's all the tasers really for him tasers have cameras on yeah, if his had a camera on it, we wouldn't even be talking about this case. You know, what happened? He hit the ground. So he hits the ground. Mike says I used it. He goes another one or two times to drive stun them drives in and he took the taser away from me. Right and he was coming at me with it. And and then he said and as I was and his his his holster is defective. So he's trying to break his gun out of the holster and that takes a couple seconds and he said, As I was starting to shoot he was turning to his left which is and if you read what the statement to sled that perfect he says then he goes I was firing two to three seconds. It was like 2.6 seconds. He's firing. He said he took ten to thirteen steps. I think he took like like 12 steps. It was it was all you know, nothing was being, you know covered up or hidden and this is before he moved to be evidence verified what he said. Yeah exactly what you try for he knew this was even on video, but right so we're gonna be shooting at him now. He's already drawing his weapon the fire. Right? Right. So because he said that Walter Scott had his taser and he was coming at him to tase him with it. Right so and they're taught but you know what? This is one of those things where it's like kind of off the Record. It's not really in any protocol. But if somebody takes your taser, you shoot them, you know, that's what that's what these guys are. Yeah. So now he according to him what the state saying it never happened Walter Scott has his taser. So if you look at his statements, there's four. Deviations are the taser to cartridges and one or two drives tons. Right now. The taser has a chip in it that actually records everything and it'll give you the time right and so like I said, he's with is he is mr. Procedure, right? So if you look at like 7 o'clock in the morning when he starts his tour, there's a two-second activation of the taser. That's just to test it. Right you're supposed to do that the start of every tour if you pulled everybody's taser and so if they were testing the how many guys you think would really probably not but he does that he tests it, right. And puts the cartridge on puts in his holster. Then you start to see around the time of the incident. You see one deployment, right? And then there's like another eight seconds and then there's another deployment and then there's even less time like five seconds and then then another one and then another one right and then there's like 30 something seconds that elapsed on this time card and he's describing a fight happening where Walter Scott is taking the taser from him during the fight. And then after that 30-something seconds, you see the taser activated. More times. Well, right. So so here we have somebody else activating the tasers certainly it certainly supports what he's saying. I can't say that we have someone else activating taser. It's being activated again outside of his knowledge that it was even activated, you know, because think about it when you're in these you have that what they call SNS response to pathetic nervous system response to a traumatic situation, you lose your peripheral vision, you lose your hearing and all that stuff. It's just one of those like if ever been in a car accident where it's like slow motion, right? Yeah exactly, you know, so he's going through that, you know, and he's always thinking is my wife's going to have a baby and like here I am fighting with this guy and he now he's got my weapon, you know, so so Walter Scott's turning and he's firing and he goes down right then then then Mike says he doesn't remember he goes to and picks up the taser right you could see when he and Walter Scott goes down. He's yelling out and put your hands behind your back put your hands behind your back, right and he Coughs mm and then he's looking around for the taser and then he looks back towards where they were and he sees it on the ground. So he runs and he gets it he comes over to the body and he just drops it on the ground from the camera angle looks bad for him. It looks bad but it seemed like if I put this these two fingers like this to you, right? They look really close together. But then if you look at them sideways, right, they look further apart, right? So from the camera angle the it looked like he dropped it right near the body, but it wasn't near the body. It was actually a good distance from The bottom it's so the untrained or not knowing what happened is it looks like it was placed in her own right? But he but they don't this is what the news doesn't show you 20 seconds later. He picks it up and puts it in the holster right and never once ever. Did he say I found a taser right there near the body. He never ever sit, right? So then he describes like being punched and we had this doctor on board with us who's an expert in tasers and he invented some stuff for a defibrillator and he's like an expert with electricity in the human body. And he says if he felt like he was punched. He might have been tased, you know, and so I said to his father right Tom slager. I said Tom I go. Can you get me a uniform shirt? That's the same that was worn the same amount of times and washed the same amount of times and you know as the one he was wearing that day and at time goes yeah, I can do that for you. So he gets me a shirt and actually in a hotel room right there Dateline was with us they were doing is they were going to cover this? All case but then they started playing NBC played so many games they made up outright lies about the case, you know that we close disturb. You have video video. I have emails here. It's that moving admitting it sorry. We'll take that video down and they know that oh, yeah because they are trying to prove their narrative. That's false. Right? Exactly. It's totally makes me sick the creating the story of Heaven reporting on what's actually happened. They're just trying to steer it in Addis. Yeah the regicide case. Oh Connie Leung and this other guy recluse on take killed her parents and they dump them in the East River. Connie was Asian and Eric was black all these homicide re-creation shows want to do the show because they want to do the black Asian angle and that this and I told there was none the parents didn't not like her boyfriend because he was black right? They did not like her boyfriend because he was a loser right and when they hear I won't do that angle. They don't want nothing to do with the case anymore. Yeah. Yeah, the truth doesn't There now it doesn't it? No. Yeah. No. Yeah. So so we had Dateline with us. We were in a hotel. I was putting a bunch of experts together for Andy. He came into Brooklyn we had a hotel room and we're going through all this stuff and we had this guy Gene Maloney. I don't know if you know him from the range. He was NYPD guy. He worked at the range to a lot of instruction there for a long time and he brought a taser and I said the gene I go to taste does it taste her leave marks on a gun clothing when you fire it and you know and like a drive stun he goes. I don't know so we took one and he's undershirt. It's and we Zapped it, you know, like wow it does you could actually see two marks there. So that's why I said to his father get me the same uniform shirt. I want something because I can in forensics, you know, a brand-new shirt you ever ever spilled coffee on a brand-new pair of khakis and you're like, oh fuck and then you looking at beat it off and you're like, oh that was cool because like when it's article of clothing is new, it could be treated with something and that can affect the way blood gets absorbed into it. So so if you want so the history of the garments very So I wanted a garment with a similar history. So as father gets me the same kind of shirt. I get Gene over to my office. I said, let's zap this shirt. So we zap it and it's you know, dark dark blue like our shirts were right like this kind of blue. And so you look and you can't see anything but I used an infrared camera, right and the dye on the shirt reflects the infrared wavelengths, but so you can actually I could make your shirt look white, you know, if the depending on the type of dye, that's use this chart I can if there was blood on it I could find Right away using infrared photography. So with the infrared photography I was able to see where he Zapped the shirt. I was like, wow, that's cool. Right. So I was like here is that been here? Is that but there and every time I was able to find it I said, I'm going to leave the office put two like an X like this and don't tell me where it is. So I came back in and I scan the whole shirt and I was like, all right. It's over the left pocket. He goes. Yeah, you're right. So then I started to study what the marks were like because when you think about it, you got two fixed points. Right two prongs from this drive stunt. So there are certain distance apart. It was like three and a half centimeters. Right? So every time I did it it was approximately three and a half centimeters. So if the shirt stretched a little bit you think about your in a fight, right the shirt might be stretched and then when you detentions off of it, they'd be closer together. So but within that range is very important the bottom one was about a millimeter in diameter and the top one was a little bit smaller and the doctor explained to me that because the current travels from the bottom to the top. Top, right? So the and and then another thing is like if you think about the weave if you think about it in three dimension if you zoomed in really close on that shirt, you'd see the fibers, you know, the threads in that shirt are overlapping each other. So a weave is three-dimensional, right and all the damage was on the bottom part of the weave, right which makes sense because the top part is in contact with the probe of the taser and the bottom part is where the electricity is going to take off to it's like the Of least resistance, right? So I'm looking I'm getting all these characteristics of these two taser marks and then I finally was able to go to sled and just look at the shirt, you know and look at just wanted to look at some all the evidence that they had their you know, and that was my thing was I had this infrared camera. And so are you telling them your findings are you weren't telling them you out and telling him a shield and Robin? Yeah. I was telling us shit prosecution. Yeah, this is going to knock this shit right out of the water, right? Right, you know, yeah, so so yes, I go down there and I brought an alternate light source to because you think by wrestling maybe there's saliva. If you got Walter Scott's alive on his back. Maybe I could find out it also is you got to go in with an open mind and just look for everything. So I go I start opening my kit to take the alternate light source out, you know like that UV light and all that stuff, right? It doesn't work as well as it does on TV, but but it works for a lot of different things and they go. Oh, you can't use that you can't use that. That's that's an analysis. You're not here to analyze their Like that thought I was you know, like now so now it's back and forth lawyer in this net and he's like look just do what you got to do. Just take your pictures and I said, alright so so I take the I'm like I could use this camera right now like yeah, whatever candidates an infrared camera. It's even much better analysis than the oldies kick is never knew what that level saw one of those in the rear cameras that wise guy from New York City. Go get me a hotdog. He had a salami in the case with the damn camera here. So I take it I take a picture and I'm like, let me I said I'm just going to make sure that this that the cameras functioning I had my laptop and I put it in the laptop the card and I look and the first thing I see is two marks and I know taser Mark. Melancon. I've done it like a hundred times already and it was like you heard of Buck Fever for guys that go hunting. You see like a bark with the eight points and I was like bullshit. I'm like we got taste so well, so now I'm seeing marks consistent with what I know to be a taser Mark, right? And so I'm telling Andy I'm like this is this is serious stuff and so like like a week or so before the trial. He goes write a report about what you did tell me everything that you did. I'm like, all right, and I give it to him. He goes. I'm going to the solicitor's office and I'm going to give it to her. I'm like, no don't do that, but When you think about it like so I was pretty much like at all the people. I know I'm the first person ever do that to every use an infrared camera to find damage to a shirt. All right, don't try and raise your feed 300 or now. I'm sure like a hundred people already wrote it up like it's their idea, you know, right so so but the trouble with that is now it's not really, you know, the science can come under five. You know what I mean? Like, yeah. Well you're the first guy to do is how do we know? It's any good. Does it really work and like so even though I have all this criteria important and really That's why you know, so so I'm like I'm like don't give her don't give me this information. What's wrong with you? He goes, I just it's the right thing to do John he goes, I think it's going to Amy and he's a brilliant strategist. So he gives her this thing and she flips out right and she gives gives it to her laboratory and they go in and they headed they they figured out I was using an infrared camera because I also use a different camera to take other like, you know normal light white light. Yeah, yeah, so they took some infrared pictures, but I don't think they knew what the hell they were looking for. Like how can you take pictures of a shirt and you don't even zap your own shirt with a taser like eventually they started zapping a shirt with agent they figured it out. But then so what they did after that was to did a microscopic analysis of the shirt to look and see what the damage look like. Right? And what was happening was they would you could you would see melted fibers? So when they analyze Mike's shirt the actual shirt he was wearing that day. They found Mel. Fibers they said we can't rule out a taser as being the heat source of that caused as you know, so now Andy had a lot to work with when I took pictures with the infrared that you can actually see through pockets and stuff and I'm looking at the left breast pocket of his shirt and there's like a notebook in there. Like did anybody bother to fucking look through the shirt? Like like I said, it was like as soon as that video came out just put everything on a shelf. Don't worry. This is all we need hop, hop hop hop out, right? So yeah, so we so we had that evidence now and then if you look at the FBI video, right they did an enhancement on it. You'll see Walter Scott's right arm coming up and Mike stops is his arm and you'll see the taser tumbling behind them in the same trajectory as if he either through it. Yeah out of his hand or or you know, he was coming up to zap him again and and the taser fell out of his hand. But how is the taser? You know, they said, oh, he just decided Like Walter Scott at this. He's got his right arm like this. Right and he's starting to turn to the left and the state's theory was no he slager through the taser. He was tired of the taser and he said I'm just going to shoot this motherfucker. Yeah, you know, so he threw the taser down right like that makes that like that makes sense, you know, so yeah so that and a whole bunch of other stuff. We did in audio enhancement of his body mic and you can hear Walter Scott and he says like, you know get on the ground. He says fuck police, right? And this is the guy like he's like a saint in the media if you look at his Great, they put his gentle giant the for a gentle giant. Yeah, they couldn't get away with the sixth grade graduation picture because it was 50 years old, but they but they bring out his Coast Guard picture, but they forget to mention that he got thrown out of the Coast Guard would look for cocaine to lose, you know, but since I'm doing a live, yeah, it is Coast got you. Yeah. So what happened with the case? Well, we on a state level we hung the jury, right? So all 12 said it's not murder all 12. And they said it's not a racial thing and seven to twelve wanted to acquit on manslaughter, but they couldn't make up their mind. But in the meantime the feds this was under the Obama, you know doj, right which we see what they what they're capable of, you know, if he says get this guy for this they're going to get that guy for that or get her off for doing this they're going right. That's that's that doj so they don't get politically. But anyway, so they weave this web of charges against them where every single charge had an underlying Charge of murder. So if you took a plea for spitting in a street, he could also get 30 years for murder. Right? So but when all the facts came out and there was like a pre-sentencing recommendation. I think he was supposed to get like 12 years and he already done bunch of time, you know, he went up for so this happened April 4th of 2015. They didn't do his bail hearing until September 11th of 2015, right? So he's in jail all the time his sons brand-new baby boy never got to hold them, you know. And then the judge didn't and so that they and he had a whole set up at his house with the that was catered with with a priest to baptize the baby and everything to welcome them home from jail and the judge said no, I'm going to deny him bail. He's a threat to the community right a guy who was on patrol for five years, you know, so anyway, so because the federal case was very dangerous. It was like a landmine trying to True that you know and Andy said look he goes if you get convicted of just the littlest offense, he said it was 7:00 to 5:00 on voluntary manslaughter and a lot of those jerries that voted to acquit him on voluntary manslaughter said that they might have got him for involuntary manslaughter. So just a much less of much lesser charge. Yeah, but so but if there was a similar charge in the federal level he could still get the 30 years for the murder, you know, so it was a it was a real. So what was that was a hit job? Where is he today? He's in Colorado. He's in prison stolen. Yeah, he got 20 years the judge came 20 years, you know, yeah. Yeah son and his wife moved out there with the Sun. So he sees his son on occasion. He's in a decent facility. It's not a bad, you know, it's not it's federal prison though. You're in prison man. Yeah. He's actually there's like a camp portion of the prison that he's not and he's in like the regular population there and that's where Go of itches member blog. Oh from the nice haircut. Yeah that from he was he was a governor of Illinois and taking try to sell Obama's senate seat. It's good next thing, you know, it's an amazing so he didn't get off. I mean you yeah. Well lighten the load but he didn't know right? Yeah, I'll even that the the Michael Brown case. Look at what the Press did with that. Yeah right until they Added finding out the truth and the truth takes time to find out exactly mean sure and the fact that like the physical evidence like this. The spent cartridges were inside the car and the fact that there was blood inside the car and all that. No one wanted to hear that and the whole thing with the hands up don't shoot don't shoot that never happened never happened never happened by the Press reported that like that was gospel. Yeah, pro football players were doing those protests and it never ever happened to him. Yeah is not a bleep idiot. It's disturbing what the Press they can do with these cases. You gotta look at it this way. It's a business right and the more pissed off and afraid they can make people the more business they're going to get because now what are you going to do? You're going to go out to the streets and start a riot you're going to protest and people get a break window. So it's more news. So you're actually creating more business with the more fear you can instill in people so scary part is that we're at a certain age right now where we see this and we're old enough to watch watch the plays unravel. You know, you'd like a football here your quarterback and you can see what really happened you can decipher it plus we have law enforcement experience for the average civilian. Especially the young people they just they don't want to work that hard to find their news. It just take it for Batum. We went through that with blinders for our most of our Lives think about all the stories that we thought about when we were younger, you know, really high profile couple of them. We've had Michael O'Keefe exactly and the lies and but you believe it unless you have family Beloved family that's Lon forstman or your law enforcement or just above you always going to the party is going to side with what you watching in the news because they're telling me the truth and not on a daily basis. We're seeing that know they just lied to us on a daily basis and make it parts parts that they don't know. I used to love that in the pool. You know, we I know the case like the back of my hand and parts that they didn't know they were just simply make it won't you? Listen? It's one thing to read an article in a newspaper the The day after a crime of murder, right? Because you just who's not the cops aren't talking to you you're getting piecing it together for people in the street. They want to tell you anything. So I get it you get it you'll get some leeway. But if you're doing a 20/20 expose 60-minute Expo and you're still getting it wrong because you're choosing to overlook evidence or not toilet. Somebody slipped it one way or another because that's the narrative. They want look one of the things I hated about the NYPD was that their policy on the Ray Kelly. Was to give the Press everything. Yeah, and it was like, why are we telling them this how we going to get suspects? There's nothing secret about this case. So if we get somebody and he's gonna bullshit us, we can't we have nothing that they don't know that wasn't out there in the Press, but that was still at policy. Oh, yeah, let them know. He always wanted the Gun Kelly like whatever we get who posed with the gun? Yeah, and that's you know, how to fuck up our crime scenes at all. Right, like we don't get some likewise back to come on to pull Mission once again, like we're nowhere near getting to that gun. Too bad, we're gonna get like, you know, it's not even rendered safe ago. He would you gonna go pick that? Yes, we supposedly did 11:45 so they can do a press conference with yeah, Jeff and also how about it? Did they bring it back when they were done and put it. In fact, we have human swab it anyway. All right, right think of how that hurts you as the chain of custody is it? Yeah commission is going to need just for a little while. We'll bring it back in an hour. When was it again on the scene like this? You know, I like my favorite story with that was we had the case with this prostitute. Boyfriend killed this Holocaust Survivor and up East Side Felix. Brinkmann was his name and that more one morning. We had all the purpose I did because there was more than those two involved and dcpi calls me Deputy Commissioner public information. They say what's going on with the case. I said we have good news about everyone ID. We're going out to get them in about an hour guy says, yeah like what? I mean? Yeah, he goes. What's their names? I said I'm not telling you their names and this little bucket detective little suck boy hands the phone to an inspector who starts screaming at me, who are you to tell me or not? That's inspector. I made it up right on the spot. I said Chief Matarazzo ordered me not to tell you. He's so pissed because now he has a chief bitch slapping him. You know, that wasn't true. I lied to him, but I didn't need them given the names of the perps to the press and then We will get a confession because they'll lawyer right up. But yeah, so we've got them they all confessed. Now you can have the name jet decades at One PP. Yeah, I gotta ask you this. Okay. So you were you were an expert on the crime scenes now, there's a lot of mistakes so some young officers maybe even some veteran officers detectives investigators bosses. They still making mistakes that crime scene. Can you give us like a little list of things not to do no matter how obvious they are what not to do. To do when you arrive at a crime scene so you don't destroy it. Well, especially for departments that don't get that many homicides right? Don't get that many shootings. What are some things? Well some things that give us both sides gives us the things definitely don't do this and you should probably do this just simple stuff. That's tough because I like I said, every single scene is unique, you know became let's say it's a shooting. Yeah, you get the bodies there. Perp is gone. Let's say tuna and an apartment. I've been in the house. Yeah, dude, like what is the thing, you know, obviously there's some things that are so obvious but these people still do them. Like should I be smoking it? Nobody smokes anymore, but should I be smoking a cigarette inside the crime scene? And now remember like burning coffee on the stove to get the smell out? No, you shouldn't do that. I can't do that. Yeah, like I remember body was right though. Remember in in the five-o one-time. It was looking for some ballistic evidence and I was like, there's a couple The guys from the squad standing there, you know, this is I think that's a piece of bullet jacket guys almost stepping on and he goes. Oh, yeah, he pulls a pen out and he's like think think think think think he's like, yeah, I think it's copper buddy. You're looking for microscopic little striations on it thinking about bye-bye. So you don't want to do that. How about coffee? Can you have coffee inside the crime scene bring coffee? Okay. It depends on it depends on the scene, you know, sometimes you know, it depends on a seen an outdoor scene, you know, like if I'm the boss and I'm standing in a shot as I've ever have a cup of cold though job you Little bit our protocol is like, you know to protect the crime scene. So who do they put to protect it a rookie cop with about 22 seconds on the job. Who's gonna go Chief? What's your Shield attacked number? Like it's gonna just bitch-slap this little newbie the that work thus putting the I know they have to give out their Shield numbers of the command will actually chant eaters some bosses. You know, what used to work was you take the camera out, you know, because that was a big deal was trying to clear your crime scene, right? Because listen, well, you know how it is when you get there. Especially at what's going to incur everybody's there? They're all there if you take the camera on nobody wants to be on film. Right? Right. You just started anybody's gonna start scatter like roaches when the lights come on or are you just saying like like listen if anybody who's in a pull some swabs that like, I'm just going to need a DNA sample. Yeah. Oh man, but the best thing is like the chief would always come in what not like, you know chief of detectives Chief, you know, I usually see from Patrol. Yeah it come in. Alright, so and they always had a At the Rog, so I use sort of like the Aikido method, you know, like you use their their Force against themselves, you know, I'd say chief of glad you're here. You know, I got so many there's so many out respect. Just tell my God. I got so many unauthorized people in my crime scene. Can I borrow your Authority just to kick and you know, yeah. Hey you gotta get out of here, you know, perhaps he's got to come in and then he realizes a my dumb asses in here, too. And all right. You got it start yet. Got it. Chief - he's gonna have to Testify you're all on camera. Make sure all your memory books are up today. And I got funny story about that. Did you work the dr. Cox case member that doctor that City got acid poured on him in a robbery. I didn't now, you know I'm talking about though. There was like a stock that he was the plastic surgeon to the Stars, right? He's a 80 something-year-old guy and apparently he just had a brain fart and got into a really a tub that had like boiling water in it. But and so he's like oh shit, you know, I got to This look good for myself. So you makes up a story that he got robbed and the perps threw acid on him. All right, but then if you look at the body sheet like he's got burns from here was he drunk now, he was old man. It's so deep. Can you get it? I guess you put your one foot. Then he's gonna stick you ever stick your hand and really hot water at first. It feels almost cold. It's like I don't know so I don't know but but so we're looking through his opinions. I'm dying, right he goes out of the picture and that yeah. Yeah kill them. Yes, we got yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but then he like wrapped himself up in plastic this to go out and make this allegation. It was a way it was a whole weird thing, you know, so of course the were at the apartment and it was Frank Sinatra's old apartment like in the upper 70s on East Side some day when I'm awfully low when the world is cold tub is so of course, everybody wants to go it is like, you know, big new big media case and all the stuff right so I got One of my detectives he was he was a hair bag, you know and the crime scene unit. I love him. Yeah, he was the hair back because I had big took out of the side of the mouth wanted this is why I think it's going on. Yeah. So so all these turns out said dr. Cox like the young Dominican boys used to go down to the Dr would but bottles of hundred milligram Viagra drawers or the thing that was his vacation. So we had condoms and Co x + Co C KS. Yeah. It's the phonetic works just fine. So so we get this so I got my Detective Joe. He's he's a character, you know, he was he would just speak his mind all the time. So all these Chiefs are walking around, right? What do we got here? And so he says to this Chief sister Jo was so what do you think? What are you going to do next and their boxes of condoms, he goes well chief he goes first thing we should do is run all the serial numbers on those condoms and he goes, oh this serial numbers on condoms. He goes, I guess you never had the roll it down that fire chief. Like all right John, it's enough. Yeah, it took him a minute and he's already funny. Yeah. All right. Let's just be working in Staten Island tomorrow morning and pull out the camera name is the chief and same image get back on patrol with all that knowledge. So mrs. Staten Island 1 1 2 O Adam, that's where he's more classic. What else can we ask you man? Let me ask them. How often do you go out on these forensics for all jobs. Do you get steady work for real for real science and six for real? Yeah. How often do you get the hired to do I get calls all the time? You know, I'm actually wanting to slow down a little bit most of the point you say all the time once a week once a month. Well, it depends I guess maybe one a couple of Money Getting called out for what company it's rare. It's rare for me to get a crime scene, you know, especially crime scene. You know, that's not totally already been processed. You know, how many lasers are you getting those? Those those films crime scene now, are you getting a lot of those? Yeah, I don't do you get at all to evaluate them class? So have a guy for that. You know, I mean like you know how to Police Department is compartmentalize this like if I get a like a like a scan or Pharos, can I have a guy for that? That's that's his own one of that's his everything I can't. Okay. Well, I I am incapable, you know, that's like when I go to a Seen I like strings and all that stuff and I liked it. But for me, it's like if you can't do it the old-fashioned way, you shouldn't have a machine that does this stuff for because you can actually use those machines and reconstruct the impact angle of a bullet you could do things like that. But if you don't understand how to do it with a string and a ballistics work, I do my I do all that do your own bullets? Yeah. Wow. Yeah impact. I know. I mean the the amazing thing about ballistics people don't realize there's so many areas on the bullet that can be identified you get the A boy the primer Mark right where the it's firing pin and print Shot firing pin Impressions, right? You got the tool marks on the shell that when it ejects the shell right? What's that called? Yeah, there's the extractive argument is also inject them on and you have the breech face the the obviously both ballistic stuff on the bullet slides of the bullet. Yeah. I can't even think what that's called anymore because I'm having a brain fart. Yeah. It's the lands and grooves like the waves crash stuff. So there's many things to look at. At ya got everyone realizes that you know, and then even sometimes in the rarest occasion, you can pull a fingerprint off with shell right but very rare that yeah, there's all kinds of new stuff coming out with that now, I mean, it's been done and it's very it's a very difficult thing because when you thinking of new stuff we wanted to talk about the facial recognition. I promised our audience that weíll ask you about that and also about these things 23 and me. Yeah ancestry.com. Let's start off with that one. What? Your opinion on these sending your DNA into these companies. Well, if you're if you're wanted for an offense where you probably left your DNA at the crime scene, don't do it. Right. What about if your family's though, if anything there's a whole familial search and all that kind of stuff that can be done. I mean, you know, I do a lot of Defense work, but my heart still a cotton in the police department, you know, I think it's an excellent resource for law enforcement to get information from you know, so I I'm glad I had an uncle that was annoying. You know, he was like always over the house eating us out of house and home borrowing money. I know he does he's done some bad things might go I might send the swab in but you might want a white might want to try to match this up with this guy Hector Hector you're done just to get him out of the house. You know, I wouldn't be surprised if that's not going to happen in the future if people just given up their family. Yeah, you know, he just to get him out of the house just to get them out of the way. Enjoying some time with these people are each rhenium and they drain the whole they bring down the whole family. Don't take a vacation for a little while. Give me some peace. So you don't think it's a good idea right what to send your DNA to the government. I mean to these companies are you know, I mean there's this to this couple sides to it, right? I think it's an interesting thing what they're doing and and the bigger the database gets the more information. They're going to be able to give you know to you as a client. And so the more people in the world that submit their DNA the larger the database and the more they're going to say I'll guess what you guys are all from the same region over here and it's like so so to discourage people from doing it. I think medically it's interesting because if you have some pattern and your family for cancer, for example, and now you've discovered through your DNA, well, that's obvious and I or maybe you did it know it. Now the preventive care obviously you get you get a leg up on that you get into taking advantage of that. Okay. I need to avoid this. You know, that's going to be really interesting getting a chart of the things that you should avoid because otherwise they're going to trigger this type of Health stuff and I would imagine if you follow that regimen and can prove it. You probably get big reductions any medical insurance. Yeah. It's good stuff like that. Yeah, if if you're one of the people and yeah, but there's people out there doing man. I see people getting up it's like Sunday morning. Meaning it's 6:40 in the morning. It's you know already know it's going to be a hundred and twenty degrees today, but you got to go out and run you fucking asshole. Really, correct? Really you mother fell we take the day off and God forbid you miss a day you machine. It's the point of living life. And all right. Let's talk about facial recognition. Yeah, that's a that's a big thing now. Yeah, that's a little outside of my area. Like, I'm not a tech guy. I'm not the now that you see that yeah, you know knowing what you know and crime scene and stuff like that. That and and the fact that you mentioned that it was part of a case, which case were you talking about where they Wonder but doing some facial recognition. You mentioned it earlier. Well, they don't Austin marathon. Yeah boss man. Oh, yeah the Boston Marathon thing. Yeah. Yeah, there's on a of brothers were identified through social network at that face. After face that people like, oh, it's so funny. Look at how I look old. First of all, I'm already getting old. I want to see how much all I don't really know. What happened with that. Was that some sort of a spicy little say in the Russians put that up there so they can who knows fact the next election. You know how they have you when you look the way you look now and they're going to have you that we can already project how you're going to look when you're older. You send this your DNA we know where you for politically because your social media. Yeah, we know your family your friends. I didn't expect to live this long, you know, so I don't give a damn what I live. I'm still here in 20 years. It's a all right, we made it. We made it through the 80s and the 90s on the police department. Mm. I believe we made a loan. Yeah. I stepped out more or less unscathed except we have PTSD all of us. Yeah, how often do you work? Like, what is it? What is the work week? Look I feel the work every day where yeah, I got case work. I could do every day every single day, you know, but you know how it is like well, it's the same thing with the police for me is I get a job that comes in and right away. I got to start doing all my work all my analysis a lot of most of the time it's just photos, you know, a lot of times I'll go look at the physical evidence and bayous so my little trick photography my Infrared and all that kind of stuff and whatever it depends some people don't want you touching it some people let you do whatever you want to it, you know, they'll give you a bag here. This is yours. You know, they you got no clean place to lay it out on so I was bring my own rolls of paper and stuff to preserve the Integrity of the evidence. So you got butcher paper in the cartoon. Yeah. I got it about that when you got Cleaver when you get drug tested on the police department, they put your leg on a smelly brown paper bag right the shaver. Well, that's clean. That's forensically they could be cocaine old a piece of brown paper. And that's where you that's my career right there honey. I had one of my detectives he was a character right? He's going bald, you know, and so they like where do you want us to take the hair from you know, your legs are your head and he goes listen he goes I'm losing most of my hair already. So please don't take it from my head and goes and I have a boat. So I'm out there. So I really don't want you to shave my legs he goes up, but my wife tells me. Got a hairy ass so she's so she's laughing and he goes I'm serious. And if this guy was good. Yeah some guys like they can just keep this and so so she goes and she kind of like walks away into like the supervisors office and the door closes and it was about he said it was about three or four minutes later the boss just opens the door and he yells out. No way has hair. It's a protective shaving my legs. I was busted. His balls dude. Are you really like your job your little bucket good. The guy the guy who we had a sergeant that used to do it for housing. Right? And he goes It goes yeah. I wanted a detail I asked for a detail and they said you're in because but I thought they said you're in but it was urine whenever you step up to the to the thing he goes he goes he hands you to copy goes at first you're going to feel a small prick, you know, the way they take the hair though. They don't finish shaving. Like that, it just keep it on like doing like three or four different spots on one leg. So now if it's the middle of summer and you go into the beach, you look like there's something wrong with you. Right right. Do me. Yeah, like you know that leg looks so wow. That doesn't look good. You got Patches of hair missing. What's the matter with you? So now you have to shape the you have to shave both legs and then your chest and your arms. That's my excuse to dress, but this is great man. I can't believe the second hour was so so fast. Damn is a great man. Thank God man. Thanks for coming by. Thank you very much. All listeners are getting a plethora I learned that word in ecology is no of of different points of view in the police service and prosecution and it's pretty damaged or thing. I have to say but before we go one more question, do you have a lot of girls that ask you to either follow their husbands or their boyfriends or they bring you some of their something that they want you to collect collect DNA off of it not okay. That's that's that you will know. I'm a license Pi gonna make sure He was jumped Lucci. Take all the other way what I said, what's your address again? Talk loudly about being a crime scene in this I would imagine that you had a ton of women is like I don't trust my husband for nothing. This is his brush. I bet you there's his from his girlfriend in here to something like that. I would imagine your pockets are filled with alcohol prep pads, if your current law enforcement and you happen to pull this gentleman over all that stuff in his car is be for crime scenes, okay? It's right. There's a legitimate serious. He's not a serial killer. Well Bill any parting words that again that this was great. It's a lot of fun. And as Mark was saying we're hoping audience is picking up every week. We get a bigger and bigger audience and we're hoping to be picked up and shortly with thinking we're going to go National and that's going to happen and we'll thanks votantes. We have a confirmation will let that cat out of the bag. But all you people have been listening week-to-week. Thank you so much for being there fanciful. Off the cuff of route in a radio call somewhere. It's 95 degrees you one day could become a crime scene detective being a bloody smelly filthy apartment in nineteen times x suit and a tie pin suit with alcohol prep pads loaded in your pockets. That's well before one more time. I just want to mention. What is it Artie foundation.com. Is it that come to say that how about the back this is Ang a.org I looked it up online. It's a great Foundation. They they help of Veteran families people who have lost. Members of the Armed Forces in battle and stuff like that and they make donations. They look for volunteers as well to help all the families like that. They connect people who have actually lost lost family members, and they're doing a great job out there. And for those of you who have foundations and stuff like that and you have T-shirts, you know, send them over. We'll get you an address soon. We will take any type of clothing. I wear a double X. No Joe. I'm John. Thanks for having me. Thanks for coming down. Should you time see you speak at I tell you a little bit. It was Irish. I can hide you in Rome. They can you always fat accumulation. What's the furthest you've ever traveled? I went to Paraguay and exhumed the body down there. Really? Yeah, I was I got a call from a lawyer says I need a DNA expert. I'm like, what do you mean? I'm not a scientist. What do you need? I need somebody to exhume a body down in Paraguay and collect and collect the DNA and I'm like, I'm your man and then I'm on a computer where the fuck is Paraguay. I know it's South America, but do it. Bring a bathing suit. Yeah, we definitely like mountain climbing gear. What do I need somebody from there? They got a soccer team to live in the world couple time. Yeah. So all the carabinieri and Italy the end. What's your the other ones the police? Yeah, Carmen, yeah arm of the police and like to shout out to my carbonara friends. I'm going to send this over to him, you know. Yeah, we have one of these things we have to travel you need somebody to carry all this stuff the cave Venice. What's the best restaurant or Tau only got a hundred fifty an hour for that? Listen about do it for a lot less money coming for forensics for free. But is it called again forensics for real number for yeah, okay free for us. It's up to you. All right, man. I'll be half of police off the cuff. That's another we are end the tour here. Excellent come back and visit again.
John Paolucci completed a diverse and groundbreaking career in the NYPD, spending his final eight (8) years as a supervisor in the Forensic Investigations Division. Four (4) of those years were spent as a Crime Scene Unit supervisor where he was responsible for responding to crime scenes to coordinate and assist in the identification, collection and documentation of all types of forensic evidence. He worked on many high profile cases and generated written synopses or ‘recaps’ that would be presented to executive level managers and often used to disseminate information to the media. From the Crime Scene Unit, he was selected to be the first ever commanding officer of a new unit called the OCME Liaison Unit. In this position, he would vet all DNA evidence submitted for analysis in the City of New York and was designated as the “One Voice” for the NYPD when outside agencies had any questions about forensic evidence either in the NYPD laboratory or at the Office of Chief Medical Examiner (OCME) for DNA analysis. His efforts drastically reduced DNA analysis turn-around times in New York City, and as a result he was awarded the Unit Citation by the Mayor and Police Commissioner in 2010. He was also promoted to Detective Sergeant in 2010. John Paolucci reviewed thousands of cases, often examining photos to determine if the forensic evidence that was collected would benefit from analyses other than those requested by the investigators. He worked with OCME to develop new protocols for documenting DNA evidence, and the entire NYPD’s forensic evidence collection practices were totally revamped based largely on laboratory analysis results that were collated and interpreted by Mr. Paolucci. In this capacity he trained thousands of NYPD and other federal and local agencies on the probative value of forensic evidence, documenting forensic evidence, and collecting DNA exemplars from suspects. In retirement, John formed Forensics 4 Real Inc. to impart his knowledge and understanding of forensic evidence and crime scene investigations to students of forensics as well as law enforcement first responders and investigators by providing a true to life perspective on how evidence is identified and handled in the field as well as in the laboratory. He also works as an expert witness and has worked on homicide investigations in the states of Kentucky, Texas, South Carolina as well as his native New York State. John was also hired to travel to Paraguay to exhume a body to collect DNA evidence as part of an international insurance fraud investigation. Despite interference from the government that almost resulted in his arrest, John was able to conclude that the body buried in Paraguay was not the insured, saving the insurance company over $3 million. (From his consulting site, https://www.forensics4real.com/ ) 