Hello everyone and welcome back to the Fowler. Our on today's show. I'm joined by Arun Sharma. He's an awesome designer from New Delhi India. Now what we spent today talking about was mindset how to get over it. And also what it's like to be a future Young Gun. There's a lot of techniques in today's episode that I think will really help some of you fresh designers you young designers out there and also ways that you can potentially get over scarcity mindset and Achieve bigger better business goals for you rather thanBeing so much about money and things like that coming in. Today's episode is also brought to you by skillshare. Now, let's go shares giving two free months away to every single person who listens to this show. All you have to do is go to SK l dot s h / C Fowler design or tap the link in below the link in below to get up two to three months of unlimited classes from thousands of experts. Now this can be in graphic design. It could be in web design. It could be in learning how to be a better. A writer whatever you'd like to learn skillshare has got your back. You can also upgrade your font Library Your Design assets and textures with design Cuts who are second sponsor for today's show. You can check out their latest bundle and potentially save yourself thousands of dollars. All you have to do is head to the link in the show notes, which is C Fowler design and I'm updating that every single week with their all new bundles and I've got to say guys, I've saved thousands of dollars on typefaces alone. They're constantly running off. In contests and they have a great Community behind them as well. They're not just here to sell you assets. They actually want to help you build a better design business. So thank you very much to design cuts and also to skillshare for helping support this show right? Let's get started. Hello and welcome back to the Fowler. Our today. I'm joined by Arun future young gun and a scientist X designer. How you today our own? I'm fine. I'm fine. How are you? Yeah, I'm pretty good. It's the first morning recording. I've done in a long time and it's actually quite nice to be not completely tired doing the show. So for the people at home who may not know who you are. They've probably seen you on the future Young Guns series along with myself and a couple of other awesome guys now, What's your story? Where are you from? Tell the listeners at home a little bit about you. Okay, so I'm from India. Okay, don't leave it living in New Delhi. And so I started my creative Journey around five six years ago after I completed from school. And so the thing is, okay. Once again, do you want me to tell the whole story like just a brief thing? Yeah. Well, you're from New Delhi you what you've been doing. So you said you left school five or six? Years ago. Yeah. Yeah, so what we've been doing since because it's a really long like kind of story so I'm not sure because it really is the short version give us a short version we can dive into heaven. Hold on. Okay? Okay. So, um around 11 to 12 standard. I realized that I didn't really want to do something that I was really kind of felt good doing which is like this we art or design and I read this article in a magazine as a tech magazine about gay video game design and I was like wow Stoked about it and I was like, I'm gonna do this. I'm not going to do engineering or anything so fast forward a couple of months. I kind of convinced my parents somehow to let me go and do this in Bangalore and I went to a kind of like a very low-level Institute just so I can set aside my parents but the degree rather than like, you know, really trying to get into a good college and my main goal was to get more work experience and exposure because before this I was a casual Photoshop user I didn't really He knew anything at all no fundamentals. And at that point I didn't even know that there are specific design colleges in India, which I know now. So from there, I kind of started my journey and I was lucky enough to get the right opportunities at the right time. And basically I got into design around March 2014. I got my first job as a designer and as designer and from there since then I've been working as a designer also soon so it's kind of going if Through a lot of little different stages to get to where you are. Exactly. Yeah with the in-house position. So a lot of people who get in touch with me ask about well, is it better to kind of get an in-house position to start with an even? How do you how do you apply to an agency or get that kind of role? Especially as you say since you were more of a casual user and then you've worked your way up? What do you think is what helps you get that in-house position was it just a good portfolio? Was it people skills? What was good it was it was a mix of both. So I'll tell you what people who think that you have just good work and you can get and like get any job or any kind of physician anywhere. I'll really not really thinking straight. It really need to know how to sell them as well. Yeah it because because I was in competition with two other people who were much senior than me, they were about to complete their degree and I was still in third semester. I still had one and a half year to go. But the reason why they picked me was too first thing I was able to kind of talk my way through what I have done till now and more into like and explain my reasoning behind all the work rather than like instead of just talking about color theory and typography and things like that because when people kind of want to hide you they did not really interested in how you get the work done rather than like what kind of work and like, you know, basically they are more interested in you rather than the you know, the work that you have so that was My kind of shortcut like you can say yeah, you know, it was a good. Yeah, so he was really it was really me faking. It was really me faking about like most of the stuff and I learned most of it on the job. I mean two years in my professional journey. I had didn't really know anything about design fundamentals La, you know, all the 12 typography principles. All those things say kind of I learned them on the job. It was basically that I was really good with software. And that time I'm even better now, but I didn't really know anything about design at all. It was just software's and that's kind of you know, how I got into design. It's a really interesting way that you've just said that the you faked it, although I think what the people who your employer's probably saw in you which is what you're saying is it's about people it's about finding the people who fit the company rather than just people who have the skills because you can hire an amazing designer, but if they're a complete asshole, then what's the point like they're just telling not let Uncle listen to you then I'm going to take On feedback, then. I'm going to work with well with a team. So what you found and kind of you've dug your way in through is by being a nice pleasant person who's eager to learn and I think that's what a lot of people one of the big key factors that people Miss from when they either leave University or they're going to apply for their first job is that they think that their portfolio is going to be the only thing that sells that the only thing that gets from the job and that's just not true. Yeah, that's not true. So when it comes to your in-house position, you've been there for a couple of years. You've been learning all this stuff on the job. What is what happened next then because obviously you're working. Where did you say? Is this a New Delhi still this local news that was in Bangalore a bank. I was in Bangalore for six years. I went there for around four and a half years. I worked in Bangalore and after which I decided to start my own thing and I worked full-time freelance for four months, but Kind of had a lot of Lake issues going on at that time Financial issues so I can have to push back and get a job again. So now I'm again in house and also part-time freelancing you finding the now you've done both working as a freelancer and in an agency. Do you have a preference over which you'd prefer kind of can still say? I personally believe that I'm still not ready to be a full-time freelancer. The main reason for it is I see I see. I see myself as like I don't think I have that kind of discipline right now. You know, I kind of want to grow more as a person kind of get more disciplined kind of manage more time in a better way and then you know, because right now if she talked just Financial numbers, I'm learning as much as I'm running in my day job and you know, I can it's not it's not really and I'm only doing freelancing for 5 hours a day, right? So the thing is the main main key thing is when people kind of that's what I learned when I Did feel and full-time freelance for the first time. I learned this it looks easy, but it's really not easy at all. Because you have to manage a business. You have to do the work. You have to do it on time while being in your bedroom because you can't really, you know, nothing motivates you because if you going to an office if you're working someplace else there is a kind of like factor which kind of pushes you that you have to go on office sometime or things like that. Right? So I would say like that. A lot of people like look into yourself. If you really believe you have the discipline then go for it. Like, you know, it's not it's not that difficult if you have the discipline, but it's really difficult. If you don't have that discipline of like, you know doing things without anyone telling you to how to do it or when to do it is such a hard avoid though, isn't it the idea that your computer or your workstation is either in your bedroom or in the house that you live in and without having that hard divided of leaving the house and going Going to the office some people find that really difficult. If you say they need a way to actually go to work and I've heard stories in the past of writers and designers who put on office attire like a su or a jacket or shirt or whatever leave the house walk for 20 minutes around the block and come back into their house prepared to work. That's the only way they can get into the mindset. Yeah, like they can't I'm pretty good at kind of wake. - the morning following a routine and then sitting down and doing work for x amount of time. But that's taken two years to get used to. Yeah, like I would just hop around between video games and designing and emails and YouTube videos for like there was a period where I would watch Netflix while designing and I realized very quickly that although I've watched the entirety of Peep Show, although I've watched the entirety of Sons of Anarchy. I've not actually done very Much work. Yeah. Yeah and that there was a there was a time where I actually uninstalled every game that I had and I was like only thing I'm gonna do is just work work work, you know because I can feel that if I had games on a computer I'm not gonna get anything done. But the reality was even without them. I was Finding other distraction. So, you know, it's very internal thing. It's not an external factor. I mean if you have games on one side and work on other side. And and if you are someone who is disciplined, you're going to choose the right thing at that point in time. I mean you if you're chilling out in like 11 p.m. Or something going about to go to bed. Obviously you can watch YouTube is no one's stopping you from watching a YouTube video or something, right? But if we if it's 3 p.m. In the afternoon and you have a presentation at 5 p.m. And I still playing that's not a good thing to do, right? So you have to kind of internalized and introspect a lot if you really want to grow as a person. Have you heard of the Maduro technique now I have not. Okay. So this this might be useful. I don't know for you to view but I learnt this a couple of weeks ago and it's it's a system that my parents used when I was a kid to like do reward and work type stuff and they still have already realized since there's actually a real thing. We're in you break your work down into say 25 minute or 30 minute chunks. You set a timer you turn on blockers or whatever. It's going to be that prevent you from accessing all the distractions. And then you do sir 30 minutes for solid work and then do like a five minute break to stretch your legs or do something else and then do that and keep repeating that on and off and on and off so over the like an eight-hour period you've maybe you've maybe had like half an hour 30 45 minute breaks in between but you'll feel more productive. Do you think that kind of thing might work for someone who's not disciplined? Because since I have a limited amount of time, I can't really this time. I know you know, it's Been what like two months since I haven't played anything at all. Yeah. So the thing that I'm following is like I had therapy for it and what the technique is that you ask yourself like because since I'm the kind of guy who really knows like, you know, it's kind of self aware when I'm doing the wrong thing. So I kind of asked myself again and again, who am I being right now? Because if you say that out loud and if you think stop and think about it, you're gonna actually we do the right thing at the right moment because if some let's say it's 11 p.m. And next I have to present something and I'm like, hey, I have to do this presentation. It's not gonna take long. It's going to take only half an hour. Let's play some game person. I'm going to do it like, you know, well, I'm going to bed or something but once I sit down and let's say I play for like 15 minutes or something then I'm gonna you know snap and I'm like who am doing right now? I'm being responsible and then I'm going to shut down the game and I'm going to do the presentation first and whatever it is, right. So it is really hard to get into but if you're the kind of person who really wants to achieve their goals, then this is I this is what I found, you know, helpful just asking yourself are even responsible. And what did you do? When you feeling like you're not are you, you know, you're not scolding or punishing yourself for it or anything. I just closed the thing off and then get back into design and once I'm in the flow because see while I'm designing while I'm creating something. I really love doing it. So once I get into the Flo I don't really think about anything else it's not like hey one icon is done. So let's play some game and then I'm going to do that therefore later. It's never been that it's move mostly just starting getting to start that you know, once you once I'm in the flow, I'm really not thinking about anything else. Yeah, so that's that's something to take away people listening at home. Is that although you could be distracted I get distracted by Twitter a lot. So I because I have two monitors for some reason I'll be working on one. I'll have something else. Other and then I'll just notice myself go over to the browser open a new tab and just punch in Twitter and I'm like, I don't know why I just did that I'd is nothing to see here, but it's that force of habit, isn't it? And when you break that system, you don't punish yourself for it and you get into the flow as you've said your focus like completely changes. Yeah your ability to be productive and proactive completely changes and it's such a odd mental state to get in the air. Yeah, so I mean there are times when it's really don't I mean it's see there's also a dark that I thought it was dead dog. I can't remember who it was. Like I'm really bad with names but it was really nice on procrastination like a lot of people who procrastinate they're not really lazy but they're kind of overwhelmed and I find myself in that position a lot. So like I have a project to do and I have to start the research and or whatnot and a lot of times it's that starting point like, you know, I just To get the starting point once I'm there. I'm really off like, you know, so I find myself procrastinating in that way rather than like not really trying to like, you know want to do the work or something. So that that sounds to me. I think I know which one you're talking about. I'll put a link to the tedx. I think it's a tedx guy. He's done a bunch of procrastination talks, but I'll put him in the link in the description. But the thing I've noticed and kind of bouncing off what you've just said is that it's not that you're lazy, but it's that you feel Feel anxious or you have self-doubt because of the failure. That's there's something I feel is that I will sometimes put put off starting a project because I'm worried that it won't come out exactly how I want it to and and a lot of stains also. I mean, I really did to three therapy sessions for this like, you know, trying to find that focus of trying to break that they know distracting mental state that I was in So what I did was like what my therapist told was there's another thing called doing the work in your mind. So once you get a once you get a task or project if you kind of start just thinking about it. Hey, it's going to look like this. It's going to be that you know, you know, try just design it in your own mind rather than like real thing. So the thing is mentally you are in a state where youth your mind things you already in the work, you know? Yeah, I say so so the key to that That is once once you are like in a thinking about it, stop thinking and actually start doing so if you're thinking about hey, you know what this level will look like this stop right there and then jump on the computer or your like keypad or whatever like notepad or whatever and then just do it right there. Like, you know, whatever mental image you have in that way you really get into the flow cooking rather than I can finishing it in your mind. Yeah, that's a really good. That's a really good technique actually to be able to start a new project and one of the things I find difficult and I'm sure I've up until this point. It sounds like you've kind of nailed this by now, but the ability to have all these ideas in your mind and then feel like you're not executing them properly and it's probably because you're doing what you've just said, you're overthinking it too much in your mind your brain thinks you've already finished it and then we have to do it the IQ can't because you haven't done. On the steps, you've jumped to the wrong conclusion. Yeah, so I mean there are times still like, you know where I have already finished some project on mine and it's it takes me around a day or two or like, you know, kind of get back from there and really get into the work, you know, I'm still struggling with it sometimes but it's not as bad as it was before where I would like just all it for like a week or something, you know, and like hey, let's do this because you know, mentally it's already done. You know, I just have to finish this. I'm gonna draw this and draw that and that but it's not really that simple. So yeah, I'm still like, you know, I'm still like, you know going through but yeah, it's better now. Yes, that's definitely some techniques to take away for the people at home. Is that think about well, if you start thinking about it too much just get on with it instead. Yeah and also try and break your work down into chunks that are manageable. And if I say if you like me or you need something else on in the background put music on don't put something visual on if you're a designer. Owner if you're trying to do visual work put something else on so put an audio book on put a podcast on put some music on and that way your visual brain is still focused in on what you're doing and although sometimes I find that listening to music can be distracting in terms of your thought process. It can actually help you get into that state of flow. Yeah the Rhythm but knew there was a study I again I can't remember the source again, but I really read this that when you do Repeatable work. Like let's say just exporting some files or things like that the music and actually help you, you know trying to make it not feel boring. But if you really doing some thinking work really want to concentrate on something I wouldn't advise putting on music because that will be right really distracting. You're not going to get anything done then. Yeah. So if you're a logo designer don't put anything on or try not putting anything on while you're doing your Concepts and your sketches, but when it comes to exporting and you say tidying designs up and all that type of Stuff slap on some drum and bass. Yeah. No. I it's one of the things I learned very early in. When I was in college so College UK is like end of high school. So 16 to 18 years old going through my my last qualifications that I did. I found a study that the basically explained that if you listen to heavy metal music it helps improve your memory. Okay. Now it obviously you can't listen to it for very long but in small bursts like you would when you're studying heavy metal improves your your retention for short-term and some long-term memory, so You know, maybe that's why I listen to a lot of heavy metal and then completely failed exams. But anyway moving on that's some really good techniques that work flow for sure. So yeah in the in the last few weeks we've kind of well actually before we talk about where you want to take things in the future. Let's talk about the future Young Guns. Let's talk about being being a young gun under under Chris's wing and we're not going to talk about any of the projects that we're working on for the Futures future video. Is but we can talk about the stuff we've already done and so when when you how did you first meet or talk to Cristo? Oh, all right, not that. Yeah, so around June 2017 to nor I think may/june somewhere around that time in 2017. I stumbled upon the future. I mean they still have like hundred twenty gaze of something and I really love this content. - like really like, you know being active in the community like joining all the live streams and things like that. But one thing I really did was like he used to talk about all these like supporting the channel and like, you know, they're still struggling on things like that. So what I would do is that in every live stream if I had to ask something I won't going to ask some Super Chat be it five or $10 or whatever before that but I would never really liked in a post a question without like, you know donating something so that kind of like, you know, I think they liked it a lot. So they notice the name scientist is designed in the chat and like, you know, every time I would ask something or donate something they would really like, you know like that. And the first time I got in the show was in the setting the same stream as you it was Instagram portfolio review. Okay? Yeah, I was there I was in there so that they're recognized me and I mean Chris gave me a few pointers and things like that and I think the move Moment. He actually you can say remembered my name was that I accidentally had him liked one of my photos so it's so so after that I was on the another live stream of the logo design critique. They critique the scientist is design logo, and it was a like, you know, I was one of the top fans like community members and I was the one I was the one of the first one to do the sustaining member thing $5.00 Month and things like that and then around in September. Yeah, September I think yeah, I miss us Chris. This is first time I messaged him, you know personally that I told him a bit of my story that hey I keep donating and things like that and I asked him would he be willing to give me half an hour of his time for I wouldn't say the exact amount but it was lower than what he was really charging. Hmm because I couldn't afford it and I told him that I donate and I support the channel and I'm going to keep doing it. You know, I just need your time and just half an hour. I would be enough like or even if it's like 20 minutes. I'm okay with it. I just need your time. We really need your help and to my surprise he agreed and he was like don't ever tell anyone that I gave a discount because never give discounts the cat is out of the bag. Yeah. Yeah, and I was like, okay fine and that's why I didn't say Exact amount because it will yeah, that's fair enough much much lower than what he was charging it who is charging $500 an hour that time and he was like, okay fine. So I sent him a donation to the Future. Whatever number that person then he we got on a call. He actually gave him more time than I asked for. And that was really surprising for me like, you know to see that and he helped me with some stuff and that's how I got in touch with Chris and then like around in December. He asked me like I'm thinking about this thing about, you know future Young Guns and things like that and I was like, yeah, why not? Why wouldn't I be part of that and then he added me to the group and I see you and I'm like what the hell dude corner is good. Yeah. I was like, holy shit dude. This guy is like 3000 followers and I'm like what the hell? I mean, I'm not gonna be able to compete and ask her to say, you know, why did you pick me and he told me a few things that he liked about me and I I was still really you know not convinced. I mean I feel it's the same thing with you when I like, you know, you were asking for guests on podcast and I jokingly reply to your story that like I would come and LOL and whatnot. And you agreed analytic what the hell I was just joking and I didn't really expect like you stumble into a lot of these things around it's not it's not like it's more it's more to do with I would say I would like I don't know if you call it. We say him superstitious or whatever, but I feel like if you really intentions are right, if your intentions are good, people are gonna like, you know, like kkt to Opportunities. Like I mean, I have always felt that I got the right opportunities at the right time. Yeah only because not because not just because that I really want to be selfish and I'm like, hey, I'm gonna step like, you know use people as step. Start something. It was more genuinely like wanted to try something. You know. Yeah, and that was the key that you know, really want to learn from people really want to try something. So yeah, I thought I having known you for a year at this point and the most will recordings and we've been back and forth in contact for that time. I don't think there's a bad bone in your body. Like I really did I think you're right. I think when you when you put out this positive intention, you're not going out of your way to be malicious or angry or negative towards anybody. You're just being who you are and trying to explore and grow as a person and I think that makes a big difference and in the same way. You said at the start when you got that job in the in-house agency a lot of that personality probably shown through then in the same way that Chris saw that when he asked would you like to be part of this new thing that we're doing and I'd like to think that that was the case for all of the guys in the group well for Spencer Sharif for Sean and myself is that it wasn't just the design capabilities they were looking for and I think In towards the second season with all the all the female designers or that they all look amazing and and Chris was saying that's really they have some really strong personalities and designers on you for that and I can't imagine for one second. It was based entirely on design work. Not for one second. It would be based on qualities. Like you've just described you're going out tension tons of designers who are like wewe out of her League say, you know, if you really wanted to bring Really good talent, like there's like shit ton of people on Instagram with you know so much good work, like just like you look at their fees and you're like, holy shit, man. He does guys like on some different level right? Like like I thought with you right so that that's the thing. I mean, it's not really about just the work. It's also has to do with your intentions and the personality that you have. Yeah. So when now that we've been doing this so I haven't Don't think I've ever told anyone that story of how I got on the Young Guns. Uh-huh. Would you like to hear obviously, you know, why not today? So I don't remember when this was I'd have to have Twitter on my phone. I can't have a look, but about the same time. I think must have been like middle of 2017 maybe slightly after that. I found the future and was following and doing all that stuff and obviously checking in when I could and all those livestream things and Chris. I think he said they were looking in for some summer mentors or something interns or something like that and I sent Chris kind of a message being like Ike if you can like if I can have the internship I will fly and house myself in La for the three months or whatever. It would be for the summer. Okay. So the time I was like I was in a bit of a weird ruts and wasn't really getting things done in the way that I wanted. The client stuff wasn't coming in very well. I wasn't really achieving very Much in terms of for didn't see feel like I was achieving very much. I think I probably was but I just didn't feel that way and I saw the opportunity and I was just like stuff it. Let's just do this. I have enough money in savings. I looked up how much it would cost. I'd still have money when I got back. Let's let's just do it and Chris. I think he just sent me a message back and was like send us a video of you on video or just talking and doing whatever and we'll consider it. And I obviously I assume he didn't Pick on that because pick me for that particular thing because I would have had a flown and spent like three months living in the States. But after that around the Christmas time, I think it was just before or just after Christmas. It was around December. Yeah and Chris reached out and said I'm thinking of doing this thing. Would you be interested and the time no idea what it was what it would entail and he said that was be a few other people and then I recognized your name from one of the live streams and stuff and obviously the Instagram portfolio video and I was like, Oh god, what have we gotten ourselves into what's going to happen? But it's okay. Now, it's all turned out pretty well in the end. I think yeah. Yeah it is. I mean, there's still like a couple of challenges left. But yeah. Yeah, I mean the thing is there's another what is it come I lost my thought train. Okay, I think you should pick something about I'm gonna bring it up when okay, it's come. Yeah. So so when it comes to the Future stuff and moving forward, what do you think at this point? You've learned the most let's maybe not specifically design skill, but as in like your actual design ability for making visuals, what do you think? You've learned the most from being part of this little group and Chris is videos and his feedback. I think what I really learned is I mean, it's not I'm not sure I will count this as a actual like skill like hard skill but more to do with the my men like mentality about like, you know, approaching things approaching projects are approaching any kind of thing is when a change in the sense that I think at least twice or Thrice about it and like, you know, No way that it kind of gives me a better picture of how it will turn out rather than like straight jumping straight into it and producing the result here. This is the output without really thinking it through the you know, I used to do that a lot. I got a hey, can you make this icon? All right fine. I'm going to go back and do the icon for one hour and then come back with a you know, without in doing any research or doing anything and I think that's the reason why I filled in the first one the first challenge, which was a packaging one. I had this idea. See I had this like thing in mind and I was like, okay, this will look cool and I did that, you know, and it turns out it wasn't really for the right kind of thing. I mean it was good. It wasn't a bad you can say visual design but it was a bad design for the thing that I was trying to do. So I I learned that like, you know while being on the show or you know, trying to be like know being in the group is that you know, you really have to think things through you really have to worry. Sharpen the axe before you get the tree. Yeah. Yeah that thing that really cools do the research before you start trying to hack away actually creating something and I think I'd agree with you on that. The one of the biggest things I think I have learned and it took kind of reflect what you said is the mentality is the ability to now be presented with an inquiry and go well. Let's ask some questions about this. Let's ask questions and dig a little deeper and see where this goes first before taking anything on. I mean, I'm not sure how your process has changed in terms of design. But now if someone emails me, I don't just tell them I price straight away. I don't tell them exactly what we're going to do straight away. I get on a call with them like this and Us lots of questions because that's what you need to do. And that's that's the mentality that I think helps people go far. Yeah. So I mean that's like my if someone asks you what's the price for The Branding or something? Like hey how much for this animation this kind of Animation the first thing seriously ask me. Why do you need this like, you know rather than telling them? Hey, this will cost from this to this but after a couple of hours, No back and forth. If I kind of get a sense that they're just Price shopping. I drop it right there. And then I rather than trying to approach it like, you know more like trying to convince them. Hey, I'm the best guy or something like that, right? Yeah that I have really pulled away from being desperate for the job. I'm like, okay fine like, you know, if it doesn't work out, I recently started. I mean after the last livestream where we discussed about focusing like I want to focus on one thing because I'm all over the place. I got like four inquiries about logo which were serious Identity Design which was serious and I was like I said, no and I refer to them to someone else who like who they could afford and it was really seriously. I kind of feel pretty light about it. Like hey once you say no to something it's not like, you know, it's not a burden or something. It's not a bad thing. You can say no to anyone, you know, so so that has changed the mentality has changed. So you've gone from a scarcity. Mindset of oh, I need this job to do everything and you picking what you actually want to do and what will be fulfilling now. Do you think that your mentality for that and you saying no is easier because you have kind of a stable income as well. Do you think if you are full-time freelance you do be doing the same. I don't think so that I'll be doing the same with so much frequency. I mean like, you know, yeah the amount of Lake, you know, if there's ten projects coming in and I feel like out of those ten eight or not the good fit right now since I have a stable income going to say no, but if I think I for was a full-time freelancer, I might have said yes to one or two of them like, you know out of those eight, I would probably say no to because that's like you know thing is really a How to pay the bills right so I still think that I would have done that but a little bit lesser than what I used to do before. Yeah, but that's the point the point is that it's you're not saying this and saying it's easy just because you have kind of a stable income from behind you and it's one of those things that I think a lot of people don't realize is that you don't have to say yes to everything. It's something that I'm trying to share with my girlfriend Lydia at the moment as an illustrator is that you don't have to say yes to everything. And she is being kind of Turin University at the moment that while you should just kind of say yes to everything and give you your price and don't take deposits. Who does that and all this type of rubbish that's being thrown. I know right? It's a whole nother conversation. But oh, yeah, I don't want to I don't want to kind of like bitter about it too much. But the point is that you don't have to say yes to everything and in fact saying no to stuff gives you more flexibility. I yeah and doing what you said are in which is ask them. And so even even going with a question someone sent me an e-mail yesterday that said I'm looking for a logo. I have some ideas in mind what kind of money would that cost to get made? I've got some references and this time and I send them an email back basically being like I really appreciate the message but I if you want someone to bring your exact Vision to life rather than making you a solution for your business, I'm not the designer for you. That's quite a sharp and quite a blunt. Not something I would have sent a year ago. But because you move away from scarcity mindset you actually they came back to me and they said you're right. I'm sorry. I missed worded that I'd be more than happy to sit with you and discuss the best option. Yeah, so be honest and be transparent and as you say you gotta say no sometimes yeah, and I mean, how did similar story like, you know, it's not just about like seeing why just to get them to open. It's also about understanding what they actually need because the thing is sometimes people might think they need a video but it can be done with a for Loop cable J for something like you know what I mean, right? So the solution may not be exact straightforward. So I mean I have this project where this guy needed a like a animated gif for something and the Ruiz. I really dug into it, even though it was literally a half an hour job for me and I was like, I really need to know it because I I want the endless revisions and once because we had a one hour conversation about it, like you know, why do they need it? Why do you think they need this here and things like that and I kind of try to play, you know, tell him that you know, this might be a better solution even if they needed it on like, you know short notice and they were like, you know, we really need this and so once I presented him what I had done he was like, yeah that led that looks great because I really understood what he really wanted and I produce it in that manner like, you know, so the revision cycle also ends there once you and your client are on the same side same page. Yeah, when you don't have to you shouldn't be fighting your client any point. Yeah. Yeah that you say sharpening the axe sharpening. The axe doesn't have to just mean doing the research. It also means asking the right questions. So you provide them with the right solution because maybe you don't need an axe. Maybe you need a shovel. Exactly exactly. I mean, I don't really know where this metaphors going, but But with those two big hit but you know, the point is that you can have the ability to say. No, but you should also spend the time to really do due process and give people the time to to give you the all the details and all the information because if you were talking to yourself a year or two years ago a rune do you think if someone came to you and said I'd like a video for this you would have just gone yet. Sure. It will be at yeah. Yeah, it would have been that it would have been that like Exactly, but now it's more like because sometimes you can't say no directly just because a project is not to your liking or someone like from particular companies not to your liking or something like that. Once you start asking questions, you can also realize that you know, if this might actually work out this might actually be a better fit because Conway starting a conversation is much much better thing than like, you know, just shutting down everything that comes your way or something like that. Yeah, and there definitely are people out there who will just turn down 90% Scent of their projects without even considering them, but when when you're doing that you typically have hundreds of inquiries coming in a week don't have the time to be anything other than the show. Oh, yeah, definitely would advise anyone who's getting into this industry or kind of beginning their own career whether that's part-time was like a side hustle or doing this full-time is that you need to avoid scarcity mindset because if you keep picking up bad clients or clients that don't fit you just because I think you need the money or even if you do need the money, you're picking bad jobs just for the money. Hmm. You only attract me that jobs. Yeah, your work is not going to be good and I was really stuck in this cycle for like one and a half year when I started doing freelance with my job. Like I started doing part-time freelancing three years ago while on the job and I was really when I started I was really stuck in like that cycle where I attracted that same level of clients, which It was they needed something quick. They needed something cheap and they needed something like, you know with unlimited revisions. I was stuck with that. And what I did was I really stopped doing freelancing for at least like three four months. I stopped doing anything and I just started reading about like, you know, how do you feel answer basically how to be like, you know a person with a business or something like that, right? That's when actually stumbled upon the future and I was like, okay, you know what so it's been a year now. My I think I've made progress financially and as well in the quality of work that I put out because a lot of times when you're not really getting paid for the right amount, you might actually not have a so good because you're not really into that thing. Just want to get the money. I just want the work to be finished. Yeah, you're wasting time exactly you fight doing work that you hate or work. There's a bad fit on just saying yes, because obviously if you have a stable income and this is your side hustle you can say no more. A regular? Yeah, but yeah, if you're doing this full-time, you still should be cautious because if you are taking jobs as you say and you hate the work, you don't enjoy the client you've I don't know said something foolish like unlimited revisions. Never do that. Don't do that. Anyone listening do not do that. It's really you will hate yourself for it. Yeah, and that will just lead you to taking and making more bad decisions Mmm Yeah, they have been times when I like, I think we started the project. It and I took the you know, non-refundable leg would say Advance payment. Yeah deposit payment and all these things and we're in the middle of the project and it kinda realize like, you know, this not really gonna work out. I mean if it was over tension from their side if it's tension from my side and if it is really early like you only did the initial research initial talk and you're not really made something or anything and your and if you feel like You haven't wasted a lot of their time. If you feel you want to go out you can actually say hey, I don't think this is going to work out. I can recommend someone pick someone else and give them back their deposit and be done with it because you don't really want to go deeper in that like, you know mental state which is like I don't want to do this. Come on. Just get it over with other things like that. Yeah, the stress is not worth it. I've been there and done that the stress isn't all it's never worth it. And yes, especially when you're running your own business you Just have the clients in the projects to deal with you have all the other admin and the marketing and every other department if it's just you so add more stress to that situation. So if you're a designer or an illustrator or ux UI guy or whatever your passion is in design typically, so whenever you go to do something like accounts or tax or website design or marketing or some things that you're not used to that's already adding stress because you're not used to it and you're not not familiar. So you have to do the stressful thing of learning it to then add stress to the thing you enjoy which is designing just will make you miserable. It made me miserable. Yeah, it does and yeah, it's really good to hear that. You've kind of overcome that mindset. Yeah his I think that's one of the things that It felt like when I met you that you were just you were just saying yes to kind of get going and see what see what happens. And if it seems like you've really grown from that. Mmm. So, yeah, I mean it's also a lake I realized after I started doing this thing which is like saying no more often and I cannot really take anything that comes your way related to design. I mean there was a point where I was doing UI design for some reason. I don't know why I mean Dude, there's there's so much like I feel like there's a lot of time that I've wasted like, you know where I could have gone deeper into what I really wanted to which was at that time graphic design rather than I tried to do everything like, you know, yeah which which like, you know paid me well or whatever but I feel I wasted time there. I wasted a lot of time there. I could have grown my skill set and things like that, but I really didn't and there's a only thing that I regret like, you know not being able to you know realize that what kind of you know where I was wasting time basically, but now like, you know that that's also what has what has changed like after the last call with Chris on the livestream. We're talking about the focus thing. I I did actually I did a short survey and you know, I kind of started to get a sense of what people really know me for like, you know and things like that and I Less people whom he for a lot of things and there's not really one thing that like, you know really stands out. So I internalized like I did all the process which was basically trying to see where the most of my income is coming from what I really enjoy the most which is like, you know, when you create something and you show it to someone or you see it yourself, there's a sense of Joy sometimes like, you know, I mean most of the time that is what you're doing you're trying to let you know that Happen if you're working towards that happen is hey, this is going to look amazing. I don't look crazy. Right so I realized that was where the animation I mean I was doing animation for two years, but I wasn't really doing it, you know on a deeper level and this year. I realized I took more animation shops than I took graphic design jobs or low identity like, you know, I ran into jobs and so I decided to you know, what I'm going to do animation. Now, I'm going to say no to any craft design or plan. Anger / job that comes my way and I'm only gonna say yes to animation, but specifically I'm only going to do it for software companies because in five years of my professional experience, I worked with a soft a lot of software companies. I mean five or six and I really understand how they work and you know how they want their product we marketed and things like that. So I decided my Niche or Market will be that the software like, you know product companies and I will be doing an animation just for them. So I'm in the process of rebuilding my portfolio and rebuilding my website and things like that and Rebrand scientist redesigns, basically, so Yeah, that's that's really cool. I was getting I was going to be my next question which is what do you recommend for people who want to find a niche who want to find one specific thing? They love. How did you go about that? So there are two diverse things of one is where people actually love everything. They do like all the thing all the mediums they work in and there's another thing where people don't really love everything they do but they really want to do it because it's a you know, Money thing you know, so I was in the first group which was where I actually left graphic design. I actually like I really love creating but I started realizing that you know, I think that's what most people should do. They should really kind of internalized. They should really think about it. I just take half an hour one hour to just really think about yourself. Now, you know, where you going where you have been what I have been doing till now and things like that. And I really realized that hey I'm getting more money from animation. Then I'm getting getting money from anything else or the kind of clients that I'm getting and you know, and this is something there's another thing video is really getting popular now. So a lot of people really want to do video content and it's not like that static content is going away but video is really getting popular. So I was like, okay I can also play on that thing where you know, I can really make animations for people explain animations or micro an emotional things like that. So I realize I know I think I'm good enough to actually, you know to work for someone. I mean II know the software well enough. I know the techniques well enough so, you know what I'm going to do this. So I think that was my process which is basically internalized. I really thought through I really didn't take me more than half an hour one hour because before this I was just putting this off I was like no no. No, I love everything else. No. No, I'm going to do everything else what will happen if I don't get Do graphic design ever and something Chris said which really struck with me was he is not saying that you know, you should only do that. He's just saying show the world that you only do that, you know in my home in my PC. I can have like tons of logos that I never show anyone. Maybe I can show it off once I'm really known for just animation like, you know, so I can pivot maybe in a few years or whatever. But right now I really need to focus on something because I want to be known for something just one thing so and yeah. Yeah, that's that's really good to hear that. You've managed to condense down all the things that you love into finding one or even just within one market which is animation you found so much joy as well because when people think of going and nourishing down there like oh, well what if for some reason business cards go out of style and no one wants them anymore. What'd you find something but want to be known for being the best in a certain area or In to be the best in the certain area. So you say you want to do animation for software companies. That's a very specific Niche. Yeah, even if you were to narrow it down and say I just do animation and that's what I love over the course of three or four years. You've probably figure out what you just have which is yeah. Well, I've been taking on a lot of jobs with I don't know Craftsman or blacksmiths or financial companies or lawyers or things like that and you'd very quickly figure it out, but you're right it Avoiding it and ignoring. It doesn't actually help you. In fact probably stunts your growth as a business. Yeah, and there's one more thing that they you know, I was really afraid of that. I won't I love helping people visualize their ideas, which is what my current website used to say and I was like, if I do animation, how would I like, you know, bring that into it and let you know I was really scared about all these things losing all these skill sets that I have already have, you know? It's literally a risk like, you know changing careers in the middle of your leg, you know, whatever. So I was really like thinking about once I had selected this I really started like framing it in a way that what can I do and like, you know, all the opportunities that I can get. So it's it's really that first step that you have to take like getting back to productivity, you know think that talk we were having it's really about just taking the first step and once you take the first step you get in the flow of Of that thing be it. It can be anything like picking your Niche. Once you select something. You can really Branch out from there. Like, you know, basically, hey I can do this with this. I can do that with that like, you know, all these thoughts start coming in. So you're in a flow. So in this there's nothing wrong with picking it and then changing your changing it in for five years. No one stopping here. There's no one's stopping you from Lake in a changing it Midway la Hey I want to do this, but now I don't want to do it anymore. So now I mean I've been looking The wall hanging you have behind you of the tree Arun. Yeah, that's actually probably the best way to describe it. So, yeah for people who not only watching the video ruins got a a beautiful is it fabric? It looks like a warhead fabric its fabric. So it's a it's a wall hanging of a tree now. If you imagine a tree and a runes picked animation the trunk of the tree is animation. And yeah, all the other branches all the big branches and then all the way down to the tiny little branches are the different. Places animation could go so it's more of a case of planting the seed of whatever Niche you want to be in whether that's animation or branding or UI ux and then going down that path and seeing where it takes you because it could take you in a hole you pick one area, but that could take you a thousand different ways. Mmm. That's though very good metaphor. I mean and it was actually gonna hang it on the wall behind you. I couldn't I think that that that's One of the reasons I picked it. I saw it and I was like, hey, that's like a very good thing. I mean, it's a very I don't know but it kind of resonated with me in the sense that like lots of opportunities and like, you know, it's really I mean it's a sad tree but it is a great looking through the same time though. It's a good way to think about it in that. Yeah, you can grow and change and adapt and if you want to chop that tree down and plant another one then by all means. Yeah. You got to start with something that you yeah, awesome. So thank you very much. Everyone for joining me on this week's episode of the Fowler our I think we've talked quite a lot today is a lot of really good golden chunks of valuable information in this episode. And yeah, so where can people find you a room? Okay. So right now my website is under construction, so I wouldn't recommend you going there. But still it's the scientist x.com or you can find me. my Instagram with the dark scientific designs awesome. Okay. All those links are going to be in the description as always for a rune and hopefully we're going to get some of the other Young Guns on in the near future about different a good look at that and what they've been up to we shall see how that goes. Yeah. Thank you very much for joining me today Arun and I'll catch you next time.
Arun and I met through the Futur Young Guns series over a year ago and on today's episode we discuss productivity, getting your first agency job and how to work with and get over scarcity mindset. This episode is jammed full of value and I know you will walk away from this hour with a new perspective on what you can achieve in 2019! Find Arun and all his projects here: Scientist X Designs Instagram Scientist X Designs Twitter Scientist X Website  Thank you for listening to this episode of The Fowler Hour! Don't forget to subscribe to the show and share it on twitter and instagram! Your support, tweets and mentions help us reach new listeners just like you! Tweet about the show by using #fowlerhour Tag me in your instagram stories @cfowlerdesign  This show is supported in part by our awesome sponsors! Never stop learning! Get 2 FREE months of Skillshare and take your design skills to the next level! https://skl.sh/cfowlerdesign  Upgrade your font library, design assets and textures with Design Cuts! (LIMITED TIME OFFER) https://cfowler.design  All of these links are affiliate based, so by checking out our sponsors you help to support this show and keep it going! 