Today's episode of the Hatchery podcast is brought to you by Luxor technology North America's largest mining pool lectures goal is to operate enterprise-class mining pools with professionalism and an intense customer focus. They provide a top-notch user experience and have a great selection of pools for you to mine too from a variety of notable altcoins to Big Daddy Bitcoin for which they launched their mining pool in October. So be sure to go and check them out. We are incredibly grateful that Luxor is chosen to sponsor this show going into 2020. We would love it if you as listeners would support the show by Ting them you can find them online at Luxor dot Tech and give them a follow on Twitter at Luxor Tech Team. Hey, everyone Thanks for tuning in to the Hatchery podcast the best crypto mining podcast in the history of the world today's conversation. We are talking about decentralized Network specifically talking about the security sustainability and profitability for minors on a given Network digging into the debate about a six fpgas gpus and which are the best value add for a network and when because all things are not created equal while we do believe that Six fpgas in gpus have a place and a purpose in crypto mining there is a time and a season for each of them. And we do our best to unpack our thoughts and opinions in this half hour show. Hopefully you guys find this content engaging and valuable and we'd appreciate it. As always if you guys could please leave us a rating and review on your preferred listening platform because a great way to help us boost this show and get it out to more people and as always today's episode of the hash rate podcast is presented to you by hash rate OS hash rate OS is a Linux based operating system. Designed to help you increase the efficiency of your mining machines and maximize your overall profitability now with Asic and GPU support hash rate OS provides the best experience in crypto mining allowing you to manage your facility fully from any mobile device and take complete control of your mining operations. Hash rate OS is mining as it should be be sure to head over and check out the hash rate operating system at OS dot hash rate.com. Again, that's OS dot h a sh are eight.com. Alright without further Ado on to the show. Hey everyone. Welcome to the Hatchery. Cast on the Bitcoin Broski here today with mean hash crypto Chris Walken and will bear man. We are talking about the r-word people getting blacklisted for it. Well, who is a football player wasn't there a football player that got kicked out he had dismissed from the team for saying the r word you can't say retard. I understand but somebody is will but you saying the hardware just makes me say it in my head. So what's going on a crypto right now, are you coming that out and I'm cutting out for sure. I'm definitely the markets dead again. That's what's up markets. Said the world is dying. I think the market got the coronavirus. I think that's what happened. Do you mean - let's talk about your theory of the coronavirus. That was pretty interesting. Yeah, so I have a friend that doctor that I was talking to her texting today and he was saying that and walking and can attest to this but every single person that we talked to in Walkins Discord already had a bad flu this year myself. Yeah, including walking like I literally every one of us like multiple days where we were like in bed and you know for a lot Of people it was viral. I got one that was bacterial and one that was viral this year already. He was saying that common cold that you got probably wasn't this virus specifically, but the common cold is a coronavirus. That's how it's our started what he was saying is that, you know, a lot of the people in the developed world that got that really bad cold already and went to the doctor and everything probably have a higher immunity than people who haven't gotten it yet. Even if it's spread here roof and you know, like every single person got it a lot of people would Don't get even bad enough symptoms where they'd go to the doctor. They just sleep in their bed for a day or two and then be fine. Come at me China. So we already had it is what is the theories that we've already been exposed and we are now immune to this disease that has been killing people into this disease is racist and it only affects Chinese diseases in general affect different races differently statistically speaking. There's lots of different things that affect certain demographics more than others. But I mean, I honestly think it's A lot of people have built up some sort of immunity to it already. So I mean it will be interesting to see if it even spreads as fast here. Well, you know, there's a few things that people do differently here in general and we don't limit that's well and we don't live in nearly as high of population density. And like I said, I literally don't know a person this year that didn't already have some type of really bad cold. And so, you know, a lot of people probably already have an immunity to it at least that a little bit well gonna die. Take it with a grain of salt all is good. And we won't die everyone. It's a boomer virus. It's a week Boomer virus. It's it kills young babies and Boomers moving on this ends this episode of the quarantine podcast what's going on in mining right now - did you post your minor Monday update? I did on Friday etc' baby. Whoo. I mean technically it's still Thursday where I am talking from future to me. Yeah, I totally Miss Monday this week. I apologize guys totally missed Monday. What do you mean? What I post the minor Monday update every Monday he's do you follow my account? But you didn't bout to go block you that's it getting posted it what why am I following? You can't even fucking can't even follow through on the weekly commitment to post what's most profitable the mining stuff. The rumor mill is that there's going to be a whole bunch of coins. They're looking to switch algorithms in the next couple months. So the GPU mining might be kind of fun again and it's interesting because it looks like some of them are going to be those ones we hit right in the start of January 2019. So kind of be a little flash back to that again. The big one that I'm really interested in is Veil. Actually they'll was a great coin of mine one of the more profitable coins to mine and the project itself I think is interesting. It's the only privacy coin like that that has basically built in staking or a wallet. That's a full node and you get paid a return. Turn on it for staking coins in it and they just got absolutely crushed by a success after Raven moved to its new algorithm the profitability or the number of coins, you might everyday is down like 90% from where it was four or five months ago. So I'm real excited to see that one switch off of something. That won't get it humbled so bad by a success because it seems like the Asics so really centralize the hash and they're mining for BTC. So they're just dumping bail on Exchange. As quick as they can. Mine it I wanted to ask you this mean a - so let's say a coin starts becoming profitable to mine again. Why does it pump in price? Well, because when you have centralized hash, especially if it's a success that are doing it their profitability or their cost point of how much it costs for them to mine a coin is much lower than it is on gpus. So they're willing to sell it at a lower price because generally speaking with a six they're dumping so much hash onto a network. Work, you know any time you see a six come out they take over, you know, 30 sometimes even 40 percent of the hash on a network. They start getting Thirty to forty percent of the coins and for them they can sell them for half the price that the GPU miners can and still make money on them. So they don't care about holding them for a pump or anything. They just dump them for BTC as quick as they can. And so what you see is then the price starts to go down. Then you see GPU minor start to pull off and the Asic miners get even more a percentage of The coins that lets them be able to sell them even lower because their profitability for their margins on those coins just one up because they're getting more of them because the gpus have moved off and so it kind of creates like a downward spiral of the price when the hash starts to get centralized. You honestly would see it on any coin not just GPU mineable coins. If you start to see hash get centralized you're going to see a downward spiral and priced which is why if you look at any coins that have centralized hash and the prices and downward spiraling it's because it's being Nippy elated and the other thing too is that these A6 that are destroying these coins right now are also all the secret Asics that we're talking about Christy. So they know that they're basically on a time crunch. So they're trying to Roi these things as quick as possible. So that's why they're also just mining these coins and dumping them daily to try to catch Roi before these coins for okay. So here's the thing though if your GPU minor and an Asic minor if you have the best of both worlds, let's just say You're like a 60% Asic and a 40% GPU and you say if I point all my Asics to this coin? And I know that all sudden price is going to tank and I'm going to point my gpus at my next Target and then I'm going to take my A6 off of my previous Target and then put it on to the next Target and then rinse and repeat keep on just dumping it and when I think about that and like my ass. A question is because I'm not really good with words. And when I look at Raven coin, that's what I honestly like think about. Yeah, the thing is is that there isn't a success for all of the alt coins and some of them there never will be but if you look at Vale and Raven is a perfect example of it. There are algorithms very similar. It always has been it's based off of the same or algorithm that Raven was the first ones to come out with her the first big coin to come out with and so the hardware probably is It's difficult to shift back and forth between two projects like that. But if you go and switch to a completely different one, you know like Veil is looking at doing actually a hybrid algorithm that's going to be 2 Chainz. I think it's going to be random X to allow for CPU miners to mine and Prague cow or a custom version of Prague piles so that it's more GPU Centric and so moving from what they're on right now, which is an x 16 Artie. It's an x 16 algorithm something like Prague pile. The Asics won't be able to chase it. So you're going to see a complete shift in hash rate. My guess is that the difficulty when they make that change will be a dramatic change. It'll be one that a lot of spec liners pay attention to because you're going to see rewards in those coins go way back up again. And in order for it to draw the miners to it, you know, it'll be one of two things happen either the difficulty will drop way down and you'll be able to mine enough Veil that it's Affordable on your gpus again or the price will go up and people will switch over to as the difficulty isn't going down. It's been pretty standard with that happening the other big project that made a shift like that that is about to make another shift is z coin in November or October of 2018. They moved off of algorithm that was getting smashed by a six and they switched over to MTP and the price of their coin went up like a thousand percent or fifteen hundred percent after they made that. Switch because so much of their hash rate was controlled by a six and those Asic people were dumping coins all the time which over to MTP and GPU minor started mining it and it was even difficult for a lot of GPU miners to mine it because you had to have more system RAM and you had to have a better CPU as well as good gpus. He catches bailed and price in the last couple of weeks. This isn't something so it took off and he said we know that and Z coin and and and you know, they're about to make another Oof not sure if it's public yet, but I believe they're going to move to a another custom version of Prague pile. And again, I think the reason why that is is because right now the coins hash is basically all Invidia. It's almost impossible to mine it with AMD cards. And so, you know their market cap and the number of coins they have in circulation and the size of their Network hasn't grown back up to where they were hoping it would when they move to MTP and also MTP still has issues with it being so system happy that it uses more electricity and Bill requires decent views and more system Ram. So they're hoping that they can move to something that's a little bit more friendly for both cards. So it might be interesting to see how that affects the price but my guess is that it'll help out some AMD people and you know, even that help out more Nvidia miners being able to get on it. So, you know, I think you're going to see a few fairly big projects to make changes. There's even some discussion that we've heard that Raven coin might be To make a pivot to something that's more GPU friendly to finally get a 6 and fpgas off of it at least for an extended period of time. So, you know, if you see a couple big coins move to that it's going to really affect GPU mining. There's going to be crazy because Veil is 100% a zig right now. Yeah, that's going to be a huge GPU. But my guess is you're going to see the difficulty drop somewhere between like 70 and 90% Yep, and it'll be insane and depending On how they scale that drop. My guess is is that it'll have to be pretty quick people who make the change early on that are going to reap some awesome rewards from it. And especially for people not only just GPU miners but CPU miners, you know, everybody who's on Monaro right now mining with their CPUs and not making as much as they were hoping they would effort move to random Exile play with CPUs is going to be huge. So, you know people say it's impossible to have a project. That's Asic and fpga resistant. Not necessarily sure. I'm a hundred percent in that ballpark. I think it's impossible for an algorithm to stay fpga or Asic resistant permanently, but projects like these until they get big enough or there's enough market saturation with crypto that Basics on them is the way to go. They just have to keep pivoting, you know, you can always make a new algorithm that makes it so the fpga is an A6 don't work on it and I think that that's kind of what needs to happen with a lot of these projects right now one thing that I want to say. Though is why are a sick minor so cannibalistic to networks? Because miners are Savage as fuck. Well, I get that but that's the whole reason why I'm asking these questions and playing like this is because I want to put this conversation and someone who doesn't understand why people do this I think a lot of people understand why it miners don't like a successful mining speak. Um kind of a two-headed monster. Okay, and what you have is you have basically big business miners, which is a sickness. Nurse and you know, they're buying Hardware that costs a lot more. It's a lot more difficult for them to have a small scale of money. So, you know, if you're going to go into a sick mining, it's not like you're going to buy one a secure and by like 50 Asics and as you go into that each of those Asics cost a fortune and so you have a lot of money put up front and you don't control the project. So at any point in time after you put your money into this Hardware at project can say well we found a secure Atif law in our algorithm. So we're going to switch to something else and then you're a six become paperweight. So from that perspective a lot of them, they're running businesses. They got to Roi those things as quick as possible. There are able to ro IM and a project can last for a long time with a 6 mining on it. It becomes a more stable price and a more stable Network, you know Bitcoin is a perfect example of that, but it takes time to get there because otherwise you just have a six constantly trying to Roi Our hardware and if your coins big enough new Asics come out every 18 months and then they're trying to Roi those ones. So they're just mining coins and sell them as fast as they can to get their money back or at least break even on their overhead and their costs they put up front to buy all the hardware GPU miners. They have it a lot easier to be able to scale, you know, a lot of GPU miners the last four years they started out on a gaming computer with one GPU and then they slowly added, you know, one or two or five gpus at a time even The really big farms if you talk to any of the guys that own, you know, like a hundred rigs or 200 Griggs or a thousand Riggs. They got to the point of being where they had a hundred gpus. I buying a few at a time a handful out of time or 10 at a time then once they got to have a hundred of them, they're like, okay. I'm good at this I can scale this and they go out and they raise money and then they buy a whole bunch of them all at one time. So, you know like the nature of where GPU mining comes from versus Asic mining. It's just a Different kind of background into it. And honestly, I think both of them are good for cryptocurrency. And you know, like I said miners are Savage so I don't have a problem with it. I think so survival of the fittest thing. It's what makes cryptocurrency strong because constantly miners are attacking them. I talked a little bit about it with PSV and Bitcoin and the new hardware coming out and the having people need to understand miners don't consider 51% attacks doing something wrong a 51% Attack Just it means that they had the capital or the hardware to be able to take advantage of a software. It's like finding a bug in a video game. Don't call somebody a cheater because they found a bug that anybody that plays the video game could find this game theory. It's not a little bit. So you gotta understand think of it like Game Theory. Okay, if you count all the big Asic farms and I'm talking about a sick Farms that are mining altcoins, you know, like thing of them if they're all sitting in a prison yard right now because that's how they look at each other like Oh, that's another criminal. That's somebody that I can talk to compensate you competition not criminal. Yeah, that's somebody that like, that's somebody that I can't learn. Yeah, you know, like that's how they look at each other, you know, and so if you're like, hey, maybe I shouldn't sell my coins because you know, I have this big supply of coins. If I don't sell them the supply of new coins hitting the market will be down. I just don't think you're fucking listening to me though. Yeah, but see you're saying you'd like for it to be a different. Current way no. No, I'm not telling you how it's a different way. I'm telling you that it's happening right now. No, it would be trusting that. Somebody else isn't going to dump on the market. The only a six that are cannibalizing are the ones that are secret a 6 here there a 6 or supporting the network Bitcoin a sigzh z cash all those guys. They're actually support the network. The only ones cannibalizing are the secret Asics. All right, we can agree on that point but what I'm saying is there is Farms out there right now that are basically making cycles of these coins. I can be mine with Asics and GPS and effectively they can but I mean, why would you do that guys? Like why would you cycle from an Asic on a coin to GPU on the same coin? That doesn't make any sense if they've hit their Roi will bear man. And yeah, I could see them doing that because they can try and increase their rate of return by letting the coin pump before they dump their supply, but what's been Happening at least for the last two years is that all the projects are just forking as fast as they can once they realize that that's happening. And honestly, I think a big part of that is that most of the new projects that have come out have development funds and so if a portion of everything that's getting mind goes to the project to try and pay for future development and there's an Asic Farm out there. That's just don't put in the price on you. The project itself has incentive to try and kick them off so that the price can go back up. Otherwise the basic miners themself are bankrupting the project the only Learners fork in them off. Yeah, I'm not disagreeing with that. The only stuff that's left. Let's actually profitable for gpus is stuff that isn't it with a sixth. Anyway, that's the difference specially on video. So if it stopped and profitability doesn't have a six on it. I think we're on the same page again. Maybe I'm just not really good with words, which I am I am. But when I what I'm saying is people aren't really understanding right now. Now that like the game has changed significantly and the people that were like super against Asic mining. We're always GPU miners, right and there's always been that line where if your GPU minor, you know, basically what mean hash the same what walking says said and it's been really hard lately, but if you like focus on these new projects, especially when you're looking at being in grin, they brought another variable to the table and with the latest. In Fork, if you really pay attention to what happened there. It was a minor economic change. Even our last podcast walk-ins even said no one even realized this was gonna happen, but I guarantee you those Asic miners knew exactly what the fuck was going to happen. No Asics on grin though. Oh my God, you'd lie. Well, yeah, I mean you can't say a hundred percent. So this conversation I think so the show that we're releasing with Christy today, which you know the show that we're recording right. Now this show will come on after After will clarify a lot of the theories that we're discussing but there are a 6 for every coin that you assume. There's not an Asic for basically if it's a play worth making there's an Asic for it. I mean how she described it is. It's uncanny how many people are actually building these Asics for all coins. But I think the key with that is that it has to be something that has a high enough market cap most of course because otherwise they'll never be able to Roi for sure, you know, like you're talking at least mid level. GPU mineable coins, you know, like 10 million plus market cap before an A6 going to get built for it. This is otherwise, you know, that's a midline. Now, my fault ten million market cap is mid-level. I remember when like 10 million was like the bottom of the barrel shit cool, you know, like that's why the GPU miners there's still a bunch of projects that they can do because there's a lot of good profitable coins to mind that are in between the two and you know, two and ten million market cap. And even for decent sized mining facilities, they can offload the percentage of the coins. They mined they want to offload to cover their overhead or cover their Hardware without tang in the market. That's really the difference is is the GPU my nurse, that's where they hid the problem is that the Asic manufacturers have gotten better. So, you know used to be a few years ago. It was like a 50 million dollar market cap, at least before anyone would bother building an Asic for it or programming fpgas for it. They've got More efficient at it. So they've started attacking lower and lower market cap coins because they're capable of it. But there's also been a lot of them who have gotten burned. So, you know, there was a ton of Asics that got released in like September and August of 2018 that were built to mine Z coin and three months later Z coin forked and screwed all the people over who bought those and the company who spent all the R&D, you know, they're still game being played just interesting to see which coins are still. Trying to do it and other ones that aren't honestly if you have a coin that's getting hit by a 6 in your market caps under 50 million and you're not planning on forking anytime soon. You're probably going in the toilet because there's just not enough trading volume most likely to cover how many of the coins Asic farmers are going to dump on the market and it gets really bad centralized hash. And I mean, those are really the two big reasons why even people who are outside of mining all together like new projects to start off with GPU - Our CPU mining is because it decentralizes the hash which makes it way less likely. There's going to be some sort of double spend attack on it and it creates a much larger distribution of the coins, which means that people are more likely to hold on to them. And so it gives new projects a chance, you know Bitcoin had the same thing the first Bitcoin forget who posted about it on Twitter the other day somebody on like Celeron CPU in 2010. Then in five days mind 250 Bitcoin on one seller on CPU if there would have been a 6 on the Bitcoin Network right when it started. If someone would have built an Asic the the first year Bitcoin started being mine. Yeah, I would have died according would have failed. Yeah, that's failed. That's yeah, that's one of the things Christie talked about is that the exact that exact thing the progression has to be the way that it is because you have to get the distribution you have to have the decentralized network as it grows in market cap and becomes where more and more people. Board using it. It's inevitable that it will get completely taken over by a success. It would be impossible for it not to because they'll be monetary incentive for them. But at that point in time, they'll be you know, fifty or a hundred different Farms that are buying Asics to mine it but if you can't make it to that level because somebody built some secret Asic that they're not selling to anybody and you're just taking over 80% of the hash on the point. You're just killing coins. You're not trying to support the network. You're killing them for profit to get your Roi and then you're moving on to the next project. So can America one thing I wanted to bring up that popped up in the Discord today. I think people forgot about is the theory Amanda theorem Classics dag file size. I told a lot of people last year to stop mine for Gig AMD cards and pretty much to stop by named eCards period now, so in October the theorem classic and a theorems dag files will go over 4 gigabytes, which will render the AMD 4 gigabyte cards useless on a Graham so another kick in the nuts for red team. Can you imagine all of the four gig five 80s and three gig hence 60s that are going to hit the market so many hoops. And at least with the three gig 10 60s, they're still shit you can mine because it's a video but just those four gig AMD cards. Good night. You'll be able to buy a four gig RX 584 like a pack of ramen. Yeah quote you they'll be so cheap and October. It'll be ridiculous. I'm gonna start building cheap. PCS this year is going to be super important for proof-of-work coins and the world if you're going to talk about everything that we talked about. I don't want to talk about those bullshit going on in the world the crypto as crazy as it is, at least it's mathematical and I don't gotta worry about some virus coming into my house and killing me. What are you run across the road? So you still have to worry about a virus coming and killing your back? Okay, so thanks to our sponsors for Today's episode is brought to you by Corona everybody. They're sponsoring a huge event over in China to I actually have a legit sponsor right now. Okay for my birthday Olivia, she knows that I love cheese cakes. Okay, and there's this cheesecake place downtown st. Louis called Hanks, so she's at work and she's like, hey, where should I go to get, you know a cheesecake for him and someone goes? Yeah, go to Hanks. She gets there. And the store has a sign. It's like hey, we're going on vacation and she was like what the fuck and some dude just comes out of nowhere from like the back alley of the store. It was like Hey you looking for some pegs cheesecakes? She's like, yeah, but they're close. He goes. Yeah, I can get you some what kind do you want and she's like blueberry and he's like, all right, you got any cash and she's like, no not really. And she's riding with with her buddy. Tray and trades like yeah, I got some cash. How much is it the guys like $20 he gets $20 gets the cake and she comes home later and I'm like, oh, well, you got me Cheesecake and stuff and she's like, yeah, it's you know, I heard really good things about these cheesecakes don't like. All right, that's cool. She goes. Yeah, but you know, I got this in a back alley like next actually get it from the place because they were closed and I was like, Hold up like I'm about to eat this cheesecake and you don't even know like where like if they're going on vacation. They could have just dumpster go of all those cheesecakes that they knew were going to go bad. And this guy just sold you a $20 cheese. We found it in a dumpster. I'm just eating this shit is fucking the cheesecake. I literally had to shit in like two hours later. I'm shitting my brains out shout out to her. It's dumpster cakes. Yeah. Hey man, I got these cheesecakes there right there right there. She's willing to go into a back alley and buy something black market for you than she knows that you really want. Yeah. I love I love me some fucking cheesecake. So if I die though, if I get the fucking coronavirus you guys and everyone that's tuned and thank you so much for listening. We'll talk to you guys all again. Very very good. This is the sound of a wider. Thanks for tuning in to the Hatchery podcast. We appreciate your continued support. Please do us a favor and leave us a rating and review on your preferred listening platform and head over to Twitter and give us a follow at hash rate. That's at h4s hr8.
The guys discuss the ongoing debate about ASICS, FPGAs, GPUs, and which best serve a a network, and when in it's lifecycle each machine is best. Happy Birthday WhaleBearMan! HASHR8 OS is a Linux-based operating system designed to help you increase the efficiency of your mining machines and maximize your overall profitability. Now with ASIC and GPU support, HASHR8 OS provides the best experience in crypto mining, allowing you to manage your facility from any mobile device. HASHR8 OS is mining as it should be. Take complete complete control of your mining operations today at https://os.hashr8.com HASHR8 OS Discord: https://discord.gg/McuRgwR Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/hashr8os ----------------------------------------- About our sponsor:  Luxor Technology is North America's largest mining pool. With a focus on enterprise solutions and an intense focus on customer experience, they provide a premier mining pool platform for bitcoin and altcoin miners. Visit them today at https://luxor.tech, and follow them on Twitter @LuxorTechTeam. https://www.meetup.com/Baltic-Cryptocurrency-Mining-Meetup/events/267886784/ 