Hey guys, and welcome to the sen double inside a podcast. My name is Martine and with me is scheana's Banks. Hi guys, Chanel's do you want to introduce yourself a little bit about who you are where you come from? And what your role is at send herbal sure. So I'm shahnaz I've been at send well for about just over two years. I started as the customer support team lead. And I'm now the customer support manager. We had the support team started off with just three people and now it's grown to 7 and you used to work from the from the central HQ. Yes. So when I first started at spendable, I actually just looked down the road. It was actually a perfect opportunity before coming to send a ball my commute was about an hour and a half and so for it to be a 10-minute difference to the HQ. It was amazing and now recently you We've moved back to South Africa where you were originally from. Do you want to just tell everybody a little bit about why you move back and how that's been for you sure. It's a little bit of a complicated setup. So basically I was actually born in the UK. I lived here for 15 years with my family, and then we moved back to South Africa because my parents were originally from Cape Town move back to South Africa. I completed my education or tertiary education in Cape Town. Started working there, and I wanted to have a little bit more of a challenge. So I came back to London after eight years by myself and had been working in London for 12 years many different roles all around London was a great experience and then fortunately was due to some personal circumstances. I needed to move back to Cape Town, which actually really helped because it was I needed a new tractor again, so it was quite nice to think that I needed just to change. The environment and then one day I was speaking to Gavin and mentioned that I wanted to go back to South Africa and he asked the question which I had been dreading. Do you really want to leave Centreville and to be honest at that stage? I thought maybe maybe not but when he asked that question it made me realize how much I enjoyed being here how I enjoyed being part of actual the team and how much I've had grown myself. So when I mentioned that I didn't really want to leave he brought up. The opportunity to work remotely which just seemed to answer many questions. However, I was still a little bit nervous because it was something different but it was it was a good it was a good suggestion and I'm glad I'm still here just working remotely in one of our first episodes of the sensible inside a podcast. We mentioned the remote working and how we were faced with situations where we had people who had a change of circumstances and who were going to leave the company and instead of losing good people like in this case shown as we decided To adapt the way we work and allow for remote working. So that's something we hadn't set up in South Africa. We've set it up in other countries. It had never been something that we had introduced in South Africa. So Chanel's was kind of the one who pioneered this in South Africa. So do you want to mention what we're kind of the differences between working in HQ and working in South Africa will go into the final detail later, but just generally how would How would how was your day different so working remotely? Rather than being at HQ. You also realize that the option to just walk across the room and actually go and speak to someone that doesn't really work or picking up the phone. It's not something that's Proactive or it's a good use of time. So we use a tool called stack and then you just found that you end up being on slack a little bit more but one of the concerns that I did have being a manager of the team was making sure that we still had That one-to-one time to be able to actually catch up on a one-to-one basis every week. So it's trying to actually Slaton a little bit of like a catch-up but for specific reasons to make sure it's not wasting time into each week and then also continuing the daily stand-ups that we have and trying to just interact with them any way that I can but then you do find that you're actually on slack a little bit more. It's about Balancing Act between doing the actual. I work and then also trying to communicate with your team. Do you feel the tools that we've implemented like the donut and Tacos on select do you think that has helped? I love tacos one explain a little bit about what it is. Yes. So basically what you do is you actually you can give at a CO2 someone on slack and just say thanks at mention that person you've been absolutely brilliant today. Here's a taco and it's a great opportunity to actually highlight the number of times. One has helped you or supported you throughout your day. The only limitation is that we can only give five tackles a day. So you've got to be really careful with how you going to hand that out. Especially put a big team so said the Techo tall was fantastic because you can actually highlight what people have done for you especially outside your team as well and it being cross-functional was even better. And then another quick thing that I found was an actual Tech open in Cape Town, which has been amazing. So it's kind of like hard Highlighted our actual Tech opens. Oh, yeah. Oh, I saw one even the shape of the hand. And then with the Donut app what that basically does on a every two weeks randomly. You would be picked to people to actually spend some time to get to know one another the amount of information that you find out about that person that you never really would have even if you were in the office doesn't necessarily always happen. So that was actually a great tool for us to actually Implement and if you've Somebody if you're paired with somebody who's actually in your team, do you talk about sensible related topics or is it only personal topics and things that you might not know each other but each other with myself I try to get the personal side of things because if he end up talking about work all the time, you can't really Bond over that so it's quite it's quite nice that if you are paired up with someone within the team, it's just trying to find out something about that person that you would never use you have known or never usually would have asked. Okay. So now you said you Were set up in in Cape Town you were working from home in the beginning. What were some of the reasons that you wanted us to find you a co-working space in Cape Town. So at that time of mean actually moving to Cape Town the opportunity arose where we had availability for a new team member and after looking for a new team member with in London. We were finding that it wasn't as easy as we thought and At that time we thought well, if I'm moving to Cape Town, why not find someone that could actually work with me. So then that meant that we didn't need to find a co-working space rather than actually having an office. So back in April when you guys did the HQ revamp we had to work remotely for a month and I was able to work in the co-working space in London, which was fantastic because it also give me the idea that working in a a co-working space in Cape Town could actually be more beneficial than anything else because it just meant you weren't alone. There was a few factors that you that we had to also think about with working from home was the fact that in Cape Town for the last I would probably say decade I don't mean that in a bad way, but every now and then we would lose electricity just due to there not being enough. They went through a cycle of doing load shedding is what you'd caught it, so it's actually Dedicated time where you wouldn't real lectricity would go and you wouldn't be able to actually work or anything like that. So because I was working from home it meant that I was affected one or two times. So it was a great opportunity to also go co-working so that one of the questions that I asked when we were looking around was what happens when the load shed and happened and they had a generator for like four hours or three hours, so we were covered so it's all good. Crazy how your requirements change exactly. What would you say? The biggest differences are working in South African working in the UK. One of the biggest differences. I would probably have to say is the whether it's fantastic though. You definitely don't need to be wearing boots. I think one of the things that is definitely an eye-opener is I like about Cape Town or South Africa is it's a little bit of a slower pace. So I've just recently come to the head office with Two of the support agents that we hired and when we landed I did ask them the question. Did they notice that my Pace had changed? So in Cape Town, I'm a little bit more laid back and a little bit more relaxed. And as soon as I hit Heathrow, I was just walking really fast. I would probably say I was talking really fast to their the pace is a little bit faster here and that's one of the differences. I actually prefer the slower Pace however with the little bit of a contradiction I do miss the fact that it's not a little bit faster as well. You kind of want to happy medium or good balance between the two I can understand that. I remember we used to refer to living in Cape Town. We used to have a Cape Town Walk and then the London walk and the speed is very very different. Absolutely. Another thing that I really could tell the difference was the fact that when you are working for a company that is global and you do sometimes realize that some you can't always work. The hours that has been set for you and it's also explaining that to some people around you that you may need to work a little bit longer or time or having that actual flexible working hours that you guys provide. It's also a foreign thing in South Africa's. They don't realize that you when you're working in a company that you can actually as long as you do your time. You can come in at flexible hours. We're in Cape Town your South Africa you realize that especially when working for our Company you come in at 9:00 and then you leave at 5:30. And that's it. They hadn't really heard about that all whole flexibility when it comes to hours. I remember when I was looking at remote working officers a lot of them closed at five so there wasn't even an option. If you were working American hours there wasn't actually even an option so that kind of helped us narrow it down quite a bit. Do you want to talk about a little bit about the hiring process in South Africa? I know you've hired quite a bit in the UK. So there's must have been a very different experience for you can just tell us a little bit. About the process the challenges you faced any comments you'd like to make on it. Sure. So it was a little bit of a different process to start off with because we hadn't really decided at that time. If we were going to do the whole co-working space and when you're working in customer support, you do realize that you need to have the support of the people around you so that you can quickly go over a certain troubleshooting issue or do a take training session or just to in support you get to collaborate quite a lot. So I was looking for people where they didn't mind majority of their team being in a different country. But also only having myself there that they were going to be quite proactive in actually searching for issues or just asking a lot of questions. So when we initially actually when we advertise for the job Because we didn't have any application or where the offices were. A lot of the questions did come around about where we based and what I found quite interesting was they didn't necessarily believe that we were a company or we were a UK company what of spendable who had been around for 10 years. We were given such a great opportunity of working flexible hours when you're actually doing shift work in customer support. It usually is a case of you're working from 9 a.m. To 5 p.m. Which is a good early shift, but then when you're doing a late shift, it can go into like midnight and you still have to go into the office. You can't actually work from home but extendable we provide the opportunity for them to work at home because we also don't want them leaving so late at night. And again, that was something that it was a benefit. They didn't actually quite believe they didn't actually think that they could actually do this too. Good to be true. Yes very much. So so it Was a case of actually convincing that candidates that this was actually a proper role that even that I was the process was strange because usually you would have a call for 20 minutes you would then have a second stage interview of a face-to-face interview and that wasn't happening. We actually had to do it over Zoom trying to also get everything working correctly was a little bit tricky but it made them also realize that they could do this that they HD it could work. But yeah when I had finished hiring to successful candidates, they basically said to me that they didn't think that it was a it was true because you had the opportunity to also come to HQ to get to know everyone and do some training and it wasn't something that they thought that they could do. It's not something that comes on to their stalls doorstep very often. So it was trying to convince them that it was it was true and that Had a few candidates that actually because they didn't believe it was true. They didn't want to take the application further though. Yeah, it was it was trying to convince them that it's true. But also trying to get from them that they could do the role and actually what they could provide us as well as us provide them. So I felt like I was being interviewed sometimes so is that like a real problem in South Africa that this has happened that people have learned from this experience that you have to be very careful when accepting a job. Yeah, because the Jobs, there are it's not as easy to find jobs there especially with jobs that have a great benefits. And so sometimes they do believe it's too good to be true and there are false advertising when it comes to jobs. And so you don't really want to put yourself out there, especially if nothing was pointing in the right direction. So without realizing because we didn't have an office. I didn't realize why it was a little bit tricky and also looking and for the offices when we could Martin you helped so much with that you had to also because we were hiring at the same time. I had to also be mindful of where they were living and if it was commutable because there's no great public transport, unfortunately, and then you spend most of your time driving again. It's just making sure that you're not driving for too long. So it was quite a lot of factors that you had to think about when when looking for an office. So now you've got your Team members in K-Town how have you found managing the uk-based team while you're based in coat on I sometimes I feel that I have missing out in the in jokes. There are some things that I miss out on I would have to say one of the things that it's a little bit of a Juggle would be trying to make sure that I'm always there for them the London team HQ making sure that they know I'm always there and can answer them as soon as possible as well as training to new starters. So it meant that time management needs to be really spot-on. And also another thing which I realize is trying to make sure that the two new starters also got to know the team and that they didn't feel like they were apart from one another and that they knew who to lean on if I wasn't always around. So, how did your team react when you told them that you were going to be moving back to South Africa, so I wasn't very gentle when I told them I literally ripped off the And eight and said some of moving back to South Africa and then initial reaction was are you leaving? So I was very nice in that instance, but I had to reassure them that I was going to still be there and that nothing not that nothing could change because it was things were going to change but I was going to try and make sure that the the change wasn't going to impact them too much and I think that's also helped. I think you learn to appreciate the person that's next to you then. Working remotely makes you realize that she the person next to you you appreciate and that you it meets the relationship be a little bit more genuine if that makes sense. So it was probably a good thing and it was something that it was definitely a learning curve that both sides had to get used to but I think it was a good thing. It was a lesson learned on both sides. Have you noticed any changes in their work or anything or is everything just carried on as if as if you were still next to them? I think there's you would have to monitor a still a little. Bit more to make sure that everything is done. But you do also realize that it's best to have as much as you can automated. So any other manual processes you try to automate it as much as you can so that it gained its good time management, but then I think it gives them a little bit more autonomy as well. It allows them to actually think a little bit more before asking that question or before reaching out. They want to see they come to you with a solution rather than the question. So as actually a good good thing too. So one of the things that we assure remote workers is that we will bring them over to the HQ at least twice a year. So Chanel's and no team actually arrived yesterday for our Christmas party let later on in the week and all I can say is absence definitely makes the heart grow fonder. You should have seen the grins on her team's faces when she walked in. I definitely have to agree that my family will ask me quite a lot. Like do you think you were missed and I was like, no they Me every day. I'll be fine as in see me every day over over Zoom through the startups and the meetings. So I was like now they're probably not excited for me to come over but I have to admit the warm welcoming that I received was it was amazing. It made me realize that I am missed. I do feel part of something and I had to go around and actually hug everyone in the office. So it was good. It was good. There was sensible love and what's amazing to see is actually the fact that exactly what you mentioned earlier the fact that your team have never actually met the two new starters, but they were greeted as if they've known each other for months already and with hugs and yeah, they didn't kind of have to break the ice or anything it was as if they've known each other for months. Well, there's one thing that we do so we have a weekly support meeting so that we can go over certain stacks. And the first thing that we do do is an actual team Icebreaker. So I definitely remember recommend any type of icebreakers whenever Starting a meeting because you get to know the other people and also it breaks the ice a little bit it gets everyone in the office in a good mood when you're starting a meeting because with meetings they can overrun or anything like that. So it's a good thing. Can you give one or two examples of icebreakers that you've done? Hmm. So one would be your favorite childhood memory or another thing would be if you could do anything else than what you're doing right now. What would it be? Can you explain the process? S of telling your two new to new starters about coming in December and just a little bit about what happened kind of because they're only really started in the beginning of November than they and they've already started working and come to the UK for a Christmas party. I think there was a lot of excitement to think that because not necessarily you travel a lot especially in South Africa backdoor local destinations. You could possibly drive to you wouldn't necessarily say really get on a plane and go somewhere so The excitement of coming over to hit HQ was very evident. You could see it on their faces, but then it came to the next step of making sure that they had their passports and then also with in South Africa you need a visa to enter the UK which the amount of times I've heard over the last couple of years is I'm very lucky to have a British passport. I'd like to say I'm more fortunate than Nike. But anyways that SS because I've never been through myself it's quite a long process and it can be a little bit daunting at times but the girls took it in the strides and with as much support as possible. They got their visas, but it's definitely a experience that I've never seen before and it's something that you again you learn to appreciate certain things that you have that's not necessarily in other countries. I think I need to add in when Chanel says they got their visas what she really Like to say was they got their visas about four hours before they fly its it was mad Panic. It was once painful those pieces and they literally came without a few hours before the flight. It was exhausting but I think it really added to the experience and something that they'll never forget that are always remember sensible in that way. It felt like we were actually on a program called Amazing Grace so that was exciting and and This is proof. That in double is real and our HQ is real and now office Inc. I've done is real exactly really do bring our remote workers over. Do you have any advice for people wanting to set up offices in in South Africa or anywhere else in the world people wanting to become remote workers. If you got any advice any any experiences that you want to share something that I did realize having had the opportunity of working for a co-working space in London. What is in Cape Town is that in Cape Town the offices of mode there's more dedicated officers. But what I liked about the London set up was the fact that it was like a co-working space so that there was no dedicated officers. You were mixed with other companies. So you were able to network more. I definitely wanted to take that over to Cape Town because I felt that if your team was going to be halfway across the world. It's actually better to work in a co-working space where your me Mingling with other companies so that you still feel you're part of a different type of team. So that's something that I would definitely recommend or even if at the beginning you started off in a co-working space and then moved to an office. It's just your way of actually speaking to other people and be part of a team if you virtually as well as within the actual permanently within the space another thing that I would definitely advise is going to see the Spanish. Says that you're going so that you so that you can actually imagine where your deaths will be or where certain things are just so that again you feel a little bit more comfortable when you're moving into a place and it definitely opens you up as a person to not be so shy you have to actually come out of your shell a little bit. So it's always a good learning experience. So you would so you would recommend remote working. I would definitely recommend remote working because it gives you the opportunity to e to focus but then also when you see the people that you haven't seen in a very long time, then you can also create new memories and have new stories. So if the Best of Both Worlds, do you think you would ever move back to the UK? I'm sure you get asked that a lot. I do. Yes, that's a difficult question to answer. I would probably say maybe or if you ask me if I would go anywhere else in the world then yes, because it It gives you the opportunity working remotely to work somewhere else, which is quite nice. But the one thing I actually I did want to just mention which I didn't think was I didn't think it was too much of a problem because we are only into being in South Africa your two hours ahead in the winter and then one hour ahead in the summer. I didn't think that it was going to be too much of a problem. It's not a problem, but you do have to readjust to your timings. For example, if you are working UK time. Times you are going to finish at a 5:30 5:30 in the UK, but it is 7:30 in South Africa. So those two hours do make a difference and it's just about managing your time again, so through the whole thing about work from working remotely. You really do have to manage your time. Definitely but I think even in coat on 7:30, it's probably lighter light and coat on then it is yet 531 in the winter. So definitely is but one thing I have to say also I cave down is on a Friday you finish at 3 p.m. The beach I'm sure yes, so I can still summon three people do ask. Why are you still here? But at least there's the opportunity as you say to take your laptop home at you and Carry On from there doesn't make a difference to us and doesn't affect productivity in any way definitely not. Okay. Chanel says want to say thank you so much for joining me today. Thanks for having me. If people have more questions about remote working or bad your experience. What's the best way for them to get in touch with you? Yeah, I am on LinkedIn so you can connect with me and then ask any questions. Schnoz banks on LinkedIn. So I think that's my at Matt handle. Okay, it's Chanel's. Thanks very much. Bye.
There is a lot of talk about managing a remote team, but what happens when the manager is remote and the majority of the team are based in the HQ? When our super-talented Customer Support Manager, Shanaaz, told us she was moving from London, where our HQ is based, down to Cape Town, we knew we had to do whatever it took to keep her. So, we saw it as a massive opportunity to alter the way we work, open offices in South Africa and see if remote management around the world was possible. In this episode, we talk to Shanaaz about:   Overcoming the challenges of becoming a remote manager in a different timezone  Interviewing candidates from South Africa while not having a physical office   Overcoming regular power cuts, yet still being available for her HQ-based team   Lessons for other managers tasked with setting up a remote office in a different timezone   And much, much more...  Connect with us:    We're always looking for talented individuals to join the team, no matter where you are in the world! Get in touch here: https://www.sendible.com/careers   Connect with Shanaaz on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shanaazbanks/  We want to hear from you    Send an email to insider@sendible.com or leave us a voice message! 