What am I supposed to say? I've never listened to a podcast. You're listening to Big Wheel coaching podcast. Hello and welcome to another edition of the big wheel coaching podcast. I am the host here Brian McCulloch and I speak for all of us here big wheel coaching when I say we're we are on a journey to determine how we can help all of our athletes get better stronger and faster on their bicycles. So we look at all aspects of things and we are fascinated by everything that makes people better on bikes and and looking All those things and we have an interesting topic today something. I've really been wanting to bring to you guys. I'm joined by a former teammate of mine Shawn Wayland who is pursuing his master's degree in strength and conditioning and owns a company called Simple Fitness by Sean. If you have a chance, please check out simple Fitness by Sean on he's got a great Instagram account. There's usually funny videos there and I said one point I think he was trying to sell t-shirts about a roll bus or something, but maybe we'll get into that. So Shawn dude, so pro cyclist turned like into the meat grinder of weight lifting weights man. This is welcome to class. Thank you. I'm them soak to be on it. And yeah, it's been quite quite the journey. I feel like from from one extreme to the other. Yeah, so I guess I'll just give a little background about myself. Um, so I started riding bikes in high school during High School join the mountain bike team got plugged in there. I know this is kind of funny, but we live in a place with a ton of rattlesnakes. I remember one summer. I was riding. There's all these snakes everywhere. I was like man, I'm sticking to the road started training on the road and was just like man, I love the road. I love the speed and so ended up transitioning about My first bike in a 2011 my first road bike and it was next weekend was out at the first like Ontario upgrade series. And then yeah just kept grinding away during that time to I was pursuing my undergrad at clu so for exercise science, and so I was learning what I was applying and applying in school to my training to just keep getting better and move. Categories and that's where me and Brian and Anna and joy cross paths were I remember watching them and in the cash call days. When we did that back in the day. Was it $20 2002 native in 2010. I thought it was 2011. We yeah, dude, those white shorts that we had not good for no one was stoked on those. Anyway, I digress continue. No, I Remember cuz I think it was Devon done right when he sold at a at a Dana Point and that was I just remember like that was the first I was like I want to I want to be on that team which is crazy. I remember watching that race on YouTube. But anyway, so and then yeah as a move to the categories just kept progressing had tons of support obviously from from family and friends and and local some of the bike shop serious cycling. Give them a shout-out and in a Santa Monica non-cycling basically kind of work my way through the categories just learning and then I graduated in 2014 and that is when transition to KHS Maxis. I got picked up and I was teammates with Brian and joy and Brian Breakaway Brian what we call them for a just crushing out there. But yeah and then so after. After that, I end up riding and kind of realizing that I wasn't really ready to pursue that I guess and or I guess didn't want to continue my the propath. So I ended up quitting cycling in 2016 and basically went the complete opposite end of the spectrum is just like I'm going to try and get huge and lift weights and then during that time I got my certified strength and conditioning specialist certificate and then I started my masters. At the end of 2018 I'll finish up in August of 2019 and basically just looking to see how you know, we can apply strength and conditioning two different sports to get athletes better at their sport because it's a little intro about me and if I went a little long there but no that was legit. That was legit. So we got we got to fill in some holes there for everyone. So the number one is obviously, you know, Elevate KHS Pro cycling was once cash. Call and then became KHS Maxis and you and I were teammates for two years and you had an interesting nickname and it's really important that everyone understands that because that's going to help understand this path and some of the things we're going to talk about right so so they used to call you Sean Key Kong, right? So like kind of like Donkey Kong and for for everyone at home, that didn't play Donkey Kong video games when they were young you got to know like Donkey Kong was like huge just huge massive. Healer, like you know that 800-pound gorilla and here was Shawn writing this like it looked like a bear on a tricycle because you how tall are you? I swear that you're like 7 foot tall. I'm like cigarette. I don't know I did last time I was at the doctor. They said I was like 6 to but usually I've been like six six two six three and then like racing wait was I fluctuate between like 198 of my very lightest to like 204. So I mean probably the biggest biggest Semi-Pro real biggest Rider out there on the national races pretty close. I guess it sounds horrible is up there too. But one I think that's important, right? So that's really why I think this particular component is great for us to go over because what we're going to go over is rinse, we're going to talk to everyone about strength training for endurance cycling or rather. We're just going to call it cycling. Okay. The reason why we're saying endurance cycling is because the literature that we've been reading and studying for this is that's how it characterizes. Our our type of bike riding is endurance riding as opposed to something like track cycling. Right? And so what's interesting too to me is kind of the there's there's two parts of what we're going to talk about right? There's that the culture piece of weight training and what kind of taboo has been associated with that from both a coaching perspective and an athlete Perspective. Okay, and then there's now what is the evidence-based component which is new newer evidence showing that strength training is in fact it particular type of strength training which will get into is really really powerful for cycling as a whole and it's so good to hear this because you know like you and I been talking about offline and everyone who listens to this kind of knows we went to the training Peaks endurance coaching Summit and we had the opportunity to sit in on a seminar With a woman named Jeff Daniels and she was really she just Elliot I forget sorry. Anyway. Yeah, she had she was talking about some of these Concepts and it really got me thinking. So that was got me going on this deep dive and then thankfully a post from you came up on my Instagram. That was like, I wish I did these things when I was a cyclist and I was like why have I not called Sean sooner which you know a your dear friend of mine on the team and I just we had so much fun together traveling and racing together. But like to rekindle that and to see where you've come in your educational background and how that specifically applies to cyclist is like, oh, I'm so excited to introduce all of our listeners to you because you can chart the path, right, you know the path, you know what it's like to be dropped whereas so much of what we've been talking about at least when I've been talking to strength and conditioning coaches and other people that have a strength and conditioning background. They're not cyclists. So when we talk about things like, Getting dropped or climbing a doing extended climbing or this that the other their General feedback is like well, you just need to be stronger who cares if you put on mass like you look you look awful. You tiny little cyclist. You little puny pipsqueaks. Yeah, right and good and you know, you know, you're like, oh wait, wait a second. I've been I've been dropped before I don't want to do that right like that that it's not a group ride anymore. Once you're not a part of the group, right? Yeah. I mean, I've been on both sides of the spectrum Oh of you know like I remember I told one of my friends at one point like I was like if I could cast my arms to get muscle atrophy so I could get smaller. I would do it. Look at this is during my cycling days, you know, just you know, so I know what it's like to be. Hey like I don't want to be bigger. I don't want to put on any more mass. Like I want to be as small as possible. And then on the flip side, like I've now it's like I know you know, well, I want to be as big as possible in the strongest possible. So so I understand that, you know. Hesitation because you know, ultimately the strength and conditioning coach like is not to and I know we were talking about this the other day is not to put what our personal goals on to other people. It's to make them use the tools that we have to make them be the best that they can and what they want to be, you know, and in this case, you know, we're talking about cycling. So I'm you know, the goal is not to transform people into well. Yes. Like you said, well, you just need to get bigger and stronger. Well, I don't want to get bigger and stronger. I want to get smaller and faster. And so we're you know, the plan is to support that in whatever tools are you using and when we're talking about that plan. I think we need to talk specifically about what okay, we're let's set the table a little bit because we've got to talk about a very specific type of weightlifting that we're talking about because in the past like when I you know back before I was a coach and when I was having Coaches help me it was you know, the plans in the strength component were this you would go into the gym and it was only in the offseason and you went into the gym and there was usually you're in the gym for three months maximum. There was an adaptation phase there was a build phase and then there was a small maintenance phase and it was usually like we did everything nothing was under 15 reps. Everything was over 15 reps because the idea was I don't want to get bulky. I don't want to get big and in the funny thing about it is looking back at it now looking back at it now. Like I I I have a mesomorph body type like I always put on like I just look at it. I just think about doing push-ups in my arms are getting swollen right now, right? And so yeah, it was interesting to think that that that's what we were a lot of people were doing at that time because that was traditional knowledge. Is that okay? We need to build bone density because they're obviously on and on impact Sport and you know, there was kind of some trade-offs there, but Here we are now. Coming into 2020 and there's some new research. Maybe it's not new research, but it's just gaining momentum in this research that it's like hey, wait a second. There is a way to develop muscle recruitment IE power and strength damn listen up everybody who's listening increase power and strength without increasing mass and to do that in a very what I would say a minimal time investment is probably what the way the the way that I would put it is Is that fair to say Sean? Yeah, I mean, like I said to usually about two sessions a week some like some of the literature goes up to 3, but most of its. Yeah read about two sessions a week and you're only doing you know, the few exercises that are going to transfer obviously initially you have to build will first first of all, we'll dress few things the as far as the the volume like you said you would go in and do 15 plus reps your across all Changes like when you're lifting you're going to get some emphasis on muscle hypertrophy. Now what how much is going to depend how long the frequency of training the volume of training? And so that's where we come in and we go. Okay. Well, we need to put enough volume in so we get people ready for the strength power component without adding obviously a ton of mass and if there is some little bit of mass that that mass especially like if you know, Some some change and maybe body composition especially in the lower legs or you know glutes quads hamstrings. Can we transfer that small increase in muscle mass there to a larger increase in power or efficiency, which makes you faster on the bike to immortality to more than offset that gain because they're you know, there is no like there's definitely programs like you said, I mean people any time you lift weights. That's That's one of the you know, hypertrophy but I think people think that they're going to get huge by touching a weight. And and I think that's especially when you're concurrently training. So concurrent training meaning you're undergoing endurance training in conjunction with strength training it very much mitigates that hypertrophic response. So where you're not going to get huge when we say hypertrophy what I mean is growth of the muscle. Okay, and what grow what we're talking? Exactly. So so just I want to make sure everyone's at home following us and like, you know, I'm kind of like dumb like Duck the Barney the purple dinosaur. So I like keep it real simple, you know. So what I think of is like, okay people don't want to gain size. Right but they want to gain strength. So that's where what we're talking about and you have been studying specific ways to do that. And particularly. I thought it was really good that you brought up that component of hey as a strength and conditioning coach. Not my job to put my coaching goals on to you, right? And so that's that I think of that all the time as a coach just because I'm a pro cyclist doesn't mean that I need to train everyone else like a pro cycles. That doesn't make any sense. It would mean that I'm not listening to what's there their needs are so that's a really fresh way of looking at because not everyone. I don't want to over generalize but many of the strength and conditioning coaches that I've talked with they kind of have that that mentality where it's like, oh you We little guy you need to put on some weight. Anyway, come on. You know what? I'm like well, hey guys, actually I'm you know on my team. I'm one of the bigger Riders and if they're like What's that like blows their mind like you got to think about who were who our audience is here? Right like cyclists are the you know on average. They're just the smallest version of their frame type that they can be right. That's that simple, right? Let's talk a little bit about strength training. I mean, we kind of talked about strength training so we alluded to strength Doesn't have to mean bulk. Okay, but what how can you get strength without bulk? Because I think that's really important that people understand that there's a difference. What does that look like two people? Yeah. Yeah. So the you want ideally a lower volume so you're doing not very many exercises for not very many sets for not very many reps at a at a heavy weight at a high load and then with a longer two to five minute recovery period now initially and I think this is where kind of I guess we'll get into the progression is you know, initially that might not look you have to go through I guess in for those of you who have gotten the first the version of the program we put together is you'll notice you'll be like, well this isn't like 3 to 5 reps and there is some 5 reps stuff in the And but initially we do have to get that that adaptation and transition to build enough volume to springboard off of to strength train. So we're kind of I guess in a sense that the first month is kind of laying that foundational base of like a getting used to the exercises getting used to it building enough volume to then springboard will re keep cutting exercises, especially throughout the competitive season and keep loading them higher and higher and then transition to like a speed component. Of the movement but that but that muscle growth response is interest comes mostly like ideally or to grow that is is sets of eight to twelve pulled the 15 multiple sessions a week and you're doing a lot of large number exercises. Because I know like red flags people are going to you see the program you like. Well, wait a second. There's in this first month. There's there's eight. There's sets of 8 and sets a 10. Yes, but initially a large proportion of of the growth in the strength gains comes from the neural adaptations and that is what and the neural adaptations is what we want to Foster throughout and that's what the goal is with the strength training is the maximize muscle fibers that can. Be activated and use to convert to power and performance on the bike. And so that's the goal is not initially the first month. Like I said, the volume is probably going to be the highest you'll see and then as it progresses in the season and we were fine more and more. It's going into the less and less exercises longer reps and it's not going to be very taxing in the sense of training for strength feels a lot different so Get in I mean you might do you know, like you said three three sets of five heavy squats with three minutes rest in between maybe an assistance exercise. So something like, you know, like the step-ups maybe some calf raises and then and then you're out for that session, you know, it's very quick and and then the focus, you know, obviously during that time and competitive season is is on the bike and this is to support that to get those neuromuscular adaptations. To transfer to the bike without putting on a bunch of mass. That's not going to be useful to getting you faster on the bike and to back up a little bit for everyone at home. Yes this there's there's a couple of things that I want to touch on that are going to clear up some confusion. What shawne's saying? Okay. Number one for some people listening are going to know this. We have a little beta test group here at Big Wheel coaching. There's about 20 of our athletes between coach choi's athletes my athletes. Grading coach Leo's athletes then we're testing the strength training program and we contracted with Sean to build us a training program. So when he says the training program the people are talking about that's that's what he's referring to is the one that we contracted with him to put together to get everyone through the offseason that secret. No, it's not secret. It's good. It's good because we want every I want everyone to have it. I do want everyone to have it at the reason why it's in a in a beta sessions is not because of Sean's expertise. It's in a beta session because the the the platform in which we are bringing it is a sister company to training Peaks and there's a steep amount of learning curve in my technological ability to deliver that so the reason why we're doing it a little old school and keeping it close to the chest is because we want everyone to be able to have access to the program. But also if they maybe need to talk to you or whatever rad before we kind of get it bulletproof to where I goes out to run so I don't want I don't want to get too far down on that. But what I want people to understand because there's there's a base period here. We're just like anything else. You kind of got to ride your bike a lot to be able to be like, oh, okay. Well, I understand Cadence. I understand what it means to pull through the bottom of the pedal stroke and go over the top and be clipped in and do all these things in all of those things take time to do and that's what we're talking about in this Vista introductory Phase 2 strength training at a more broad picture. What we're talking about is getting past that and then going to like you said lifting heavy weights in low rep ranges in low and in only a few sets and key to that what you said was with a large amount of rest and what's particularly important for me to convey to everyone here listening at home about this research. And what we're talking about is this is going to look and feel very different than what I just described to you before and even what I prescribed for some of my athletes for Strength training in the past which was hey don't waste your time at the gym superset go out there and do a core exercise in a leg exercise pick a back exercise in the chest exercise do all these things so that you can make the most of your time that looks very different than what we are doing and that's where I want to come back to what Jess Elliott said. When at the endurance coaching Summit was she said hey you guys do you guys quote you cyclists that shall we say? A cyclist do Low Reps or excuse me low weight High Reps in your sport. So why on Earth would you go to the gym and do the same and it was like your hit me like a ton of bricks when she said that and that's what's led us to this conversation now to where I can fully flesh this out with you and share it with everyone to go. Wait a second. There's something to be said here about having something completely different a completely different stimulus and I want you to talk about why that's Simulation is effective and why the rest is particularly important because I want people to understand that what we're asking them to do. Okay, we're asking you to understand that strength training is not a build a sweat Angel work out. Right? Like there are plenty of people that are going to spin classes and they're going to other things and and this at that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about building strength going to the gym to lift heavy things. That's a very different workout than goading. To you know, Cardio Blast anything right? Like this is not what we're doing at also help help set the table for Sean so that everyone knows what we're talking about specifically. Yeah. So I mean when you're when we're doing heavy strength training the goal is is that maximal effort and recruitment of the muscle fibers that you aren't using basically in cycling most of the time. So a lot of times you have I mean, so there's in Simplicity terms you have like everyone knows that type one the robic kind of muscle fibers type to a type 2 x and the type to are like the fast twitch. Well, you have tight 2x muscle fibers, which basically aren't really used and so we're trying to get those converted to the more aerobic usable type 2A. And basically get that neural recruitment to increase string. So now every pedal stroke to instead of you know at a certain gearing you're putting you know, I don't know say 20% of your maximal effort muscle will now it's only fifteen percent and and translating that to to that ability to one generate more power and Sprint's hopefully increase cycling economy. So less oxygen cost at a given workload. Increase hopefully like lactate threshold. There's some interesting some stuff there or time trial performance. So that's the goal. But the training itself is going to feel nothing like aerobic training and I think that's because we're training a metabolically we're training the ATP PCR system, which is you have very limited. It's between 5 to 10 seconds. Usually maybe 15 or its maximally activated. And getting that neural recruitment of those muscle fibers, but then the recovery period for that is is usually I mean Max usually I think it's forget the exact percentages within about two minutes and then every increase is kind of its got like a rapid return to about half full and yes about two minutes and then maximally at 8 minutes. So The Sweet Spot to be in is between two and five minutes depending on on the weight the exercise kind of what you're doing. So those breaks it's going to feel you know, a 15 second or 10 second. Set for say squats and Max effort is not you're not going to finish and be gassed out of breath. And so you're going to feel like you're like, oh I'm ready to go again. And the goal is the weight. So it will feel you might feel initially, you know, as it gets, you know Pro like said as we progress to that more strength power it'll feel like you're compared to what you're used to for aerobic training. It won't feel like a workout. It's a and so you have to understand it's like no, it's okay. Like I don't have to be breathing heavy because like I'm doing this right because if you rush it, you're not you kind of start going down that metabolic the power during each sets going to drop and that's what we don't want. We want to hit it maximally and then we want to get out of the gym and that is so important to what we're talking. Like. You said we want to hit it maximum daily and get out of the gym. So let's take a moment. There and let's talk to actual implementation. Okay, one of my initial hesitations as a coach was when and I should say as a coach and an athlete. Okay, so over the years a lot of people went away from going to the gym for the reasons. I previously stated because it was like, well we go to the gym for three months and you lift a bunch of weights and and you know, you usually get a little bit bigger and then you're going to try and convert that to cycling strength, right? Well, you know, okay, there's there's probably people that could argue that That with me that like hey, I still should have done that. Okay, but I didn't because in Southern California, that's Gran Fondo season and that's when the weather's the best and I'm not want and I want to ride my bike. Right number one. I'm professional cyclist. I want to run the bike as a coach. I want my other athletes to ride their bikes because a they have time be it's nice weather not everyone we coaches in Southern California, but a lot of people are and so the thought there was that it was very easy to go away from that. So when we're talking about strength training, okay, Okay, the traditional path was strength training was your workout for the day and when it was your workout for the day that meant surprise no bike riding for that day. Okay. So now if you were let's just say you are Masters aged cyclists, you're 35, 45 55 and have a job and kids and all this stuff. Maybe you're only riding for days a week. And then the the light goes away. So daylight savings time comes back and then now all of a sudden I'm saying. Hey, I need you to go to the gym two to three times a week. Well now you're only right. On the weekends and maybe once during the week like that was very very ineffective because the amount that it took to build back the aerobic side of the equation was so substantial it wasn't effective. Okay. So now let's go back to where you were talking about. What you said was it's a very focused and effective workout when done properly okay what that means now is because it's not taxing the Aerobic System listen up everybody. This made is very very important because Cuz it's not taxing the Aerobic System. You can do concurrent training which is what you said was doing strength and endurance. Okay, which what that means is in effect. And what what I've charged Sean with as a task is to build both a gym-focused workout and a weight training a body not necessarily body weight but a home program because you do need to wait to be able to lift heavy stuff. Okay, and to get the benefit of It's not not in every movement and we'll talk more about that later. But the reality was it's only going to take 30 to 45 minutes in the morning to do this and then you really only but depending on what literature you read. You only need about six hours Gap and then you can do another workout. So for those of you at home that are saying well jeez if I take Brian Brian saying hey, I need to do two to three times a week in the gym will have what's that going to take away from my riding will practically what this looks like and this is again why I'm I'm so excited to bring this to everybody is because we've been working really hard at finding a solution that's practical that will help you and this particular type of lifting is practical not just because it doesn't build muscle mass. Okay, substantially it builds it is can be done within reason in your own home or with limited access to a gym. Okay, and a lot of people that we coach and we work with have access to a gym, right and right now it's very reasonable to get access to a gym these days I think. Joy just started and it's like 15 bucks a month or less something like that. So it's very it's not cost-prohibitive. Right? And so if you can go to the gym two days a week in the morning before you go to work right on your way to work or even at your lunch break boom, maybe even some people have a gym at their work. Okay, they bust out a lunch work out because it's only 30 to 45 minutes and it's not terribly taxing. Okay, it's not like you're going to get all sweaty and and have to then take a shower and do all these things right you're going to lift. Heavy stuff you're going to take some long breaks and then you can go ride your bike in the afternoon. So that means we are no longer having to give up that aerobic base that people have come to that. They work so hard for part of the biggest challenge of being a cyclist was and is you build Fitness build finished build finished build Fitness, but you can't keep it forever. Right? And so what we're trying to come up with is ways that also help you build your Fitness, but also don't erode something in the And so I think it's a very reason this particular type of training that we're talking about is very beneficial. We've seen gains through depending on what the literature you're talking about like as much as seven percent increase just by adding it over eight weeks right? Like that's a pretty soon if your threshold is 300 watts. That's 21 Watts increase right just for going to the adding your two times a week at the gym. That's pretty reasonable. And by the way, you don't have to sweat that much like that's not bad, right. So I want everyone to think that this isn't just some literature that we picked up off the floor and we're like, hey, let's come talk about this is like I've everyone here big wheel coaching and through you Sean and we've had some other friends like Chi what at outdoor Fitness coach and some other folks that we've really talked to about this have really helped us narrow this down into something that is practical that can help people this offseason and make sure that they're 2020 is off the charts because again a big wheel coaching we believe we truly truly believe this Waylon and this is why We wanted to have you here as like I believe human potential is immense and we just have to tap into it. We have to help people get get more from themselves because they're capable of it. And I think this is a very very important thing that can help them achieve that like we talked about, you know, this this is just another tool and this is another a few percentage points. We can add on the board for a cross, you know, just like, you know, okay, you got the the aerobic training which you guys got down, you know, the nutrition side eating enough, you know this Is this is another Avenue to make those that extra those extra games on the bike? And yeah, and I think and you know, we're looking to implement this across across the year, you know, not just because I think that's one of the issues to within the past with a lot of the research and stuff is that people will Implement some sort of strength training program in the offseason and then just stop well strength strength doesn't last. Ever so you have to insert some sort of Maintenance and this is where I think you know, like we talked about the a lower volume program is going to maintain strength throughout the year. It's going to not be super taxing to where it's interfering with the bike. You know, this is supporting the time on the bike and it allows us to progress throughout the year. And I think that's that's the key factor of this is to is that long term, you know development of like we're looking to go Past we don't want to just implement this for you know, a couple months and then it's just gone and then you start out from scratch. Basically the next year the goal is to use this to be better on the bike not to get you guys not to get anyone better at lifting weights because I know you know, I yeah, I didn't care about you know lifting weights. And so when I was on the bike and so it's like but if I knew like hey, I'm going to get 5% from this. Yeah. I care about lifting weights now. You know, but we want to design, you know, a program where it complements the cycling and enhances and is not detracting and taking away time from you know, the training on the bike in the enjoyment of the bike because a cyclist you love, you know, Everyone likes wants to be on the bike riding because it's fun. And so yeah, I'm excited for you know to see how this grows in involves throughout, you know the training year. That's excellent Sean. I'm so glad you brought all that up. So I wanted to add just a little bit of layer of the science because to a lot of people listening. This is going to be fairly new material. It's probably not new for everybody because there are some people that we do coach and listen to this podcast that have a strength training background and they're going to be like duh Brian. I've been telling you this but this this might even be a little bit of a spin on it for them. But there's a lot of people that don't have any strength training background at all, or maybe maybe they're in their 40s now and The last time they've done strength training was when they were in high school college. Okay. So we're trying to put something together for everyone that looks we want it to be individual for them individualized for them. But keep in mind that the majority of our athletes are people that are over 30, okay, and people that have their primary primarily cyclists. And from there. They even more they probably haven't been to the gym in a while. So that's kind of generally booing and so it doesn't Matter if you're an endurance mountain bike race, it doesn't matter if you're cyclocross race or doesn't matter if your crit racer stage racer Gran Fondo person doesn't matter none of that matters. This is all useful and all relative to all of you. So speaking of those percentages. I want to to go over some of the some of the science where you end and Shawn was so good at going over a lot of the material and sharing it with me because I've got I've got I've gone over some of it but to be candid Like some of this the white paper stuff. I just need to boil it down to what is useful to our athletes because some of it is just coming from a strength training background and you've really helped with that and I appreciate that Sean. So you've sent over a review from the Scandinavian try that again the Scandinavian Journal medicine and Science and sports. Okay. So those Scandinavian folks know a thing or two about so there's a review called optimizing strength training for running and cycling endurance. Performance. It's called a review. Okay, and there are some important pull quotes from that then I thought was really important because it really Nails into what we're talking about. And one of those things that we were talking about was this was focused on endurance training as a whole so it meant Runners and cyclists. Okay, and they're really fascinating component of it is that they studied and found that in runners. That Plyometrics and lifting heavy. So what we'll call heavy lifts drink training. Okay that those two things were most important to building running economy. Okay, improving running economy, but that for cyclists they could drop the explosive movement which will kind of generally think of as things like Plyometrics and things like that, but that the very end there's like a little sentence there's just One little sentence in this drawer. I want want you to help give us some extra understanding Sean was that at the very end of this whole review after I read it it was like oh and by the way in season cyclists should go from two to three times a week down to one and then probably add some explosive stuff. So I thought that was really interesting because well it obviously there's there's a dichotomy there cyclists and Runners are different right and we need to train different. So let's talk through a little bit about that in this particular. Review and what how that influences us as cyclists and how what kind of games we can get from going to the gym and lifting heavy. Yeah. Well, I mean and I think I think the the strength is obviously has to be developed before power. Right because our is is velocity times 4 so the goal with with the training in general is is loath obviously max strength. So wait speed moving slow using really heavy loads, but also that High Velocity movement and explosivity and I think that's where to including Plyometrics is a good tool. Depending on you know, like I said a lot of this goes to depending on how advanced how comfortable people all with different exercises the loading you can use so I think Plyometrics are a great way to get that that velocity and still that Max effort so max effort, but just a higher speed of movement, right because you're like instead of you know doing a heavy Squat and you know struggling, you know, as you come back up. This is your exploding your Still produce you're still activating those higher-level motor unit muscle fibers to produce that movement. And so they complement each other and so really want you want both the base of that power and a lot of that too. I think will be good. We could talk more about this in the future of integrating, you know, like Sprint training in conjunction with that Max training doing repeated efforts to get that, you know, integrating so power off the bike power and strength off the bike too. Practicing it on the in the Sprints and kind of doing that that translation. But yeah, you you know, there's not like we said a lot of a lot of the research has is done, you know for a few months at a time and it's kind of like they'll throw a training program and and all the programs look way different and they might be measuring all sorts of different things in different populations. And so now it's like, you know, we're kind of going okay. So there's efficacy here. You know, these are what were the primary focus is like we said strength and power but then how now do we Implement that throughout the year without just you know, just one doing one thing and then, you know you progress for a month or two or three and then if you stayed on the same thing, you're not really going to keep progressing. And so that's where you know, just like you switch the training program up for cycling. That's the the strength idea of the focus is going to be similar. Our throughout the year, but at the program's going to slightly training that max strength and power and that like I said, it's going to shift throughout the year like in the offseason maybe, you know, add another strength session, you know, so maybe two to three and then focus more, you know on the Mac strengthen and then it you know, because you blend in the power I guess is what I'm trying to say from want to build up strength and power Plyometrics. I mean strength is the focus. But then like you said, you know you throw in well, you need a little bit High Velocity movements to and I think that's where you know phases of development General strength specific strength or max strength strength power kind of threw up. And so like I said, this this initial one program, we include some Plyometrics a lot of it is done body weight and I think we want to touch on that, you know body weight for people that right now that don't have that have limited access. Maybe have a few dumbbells. So the Plyometrics are a great way to obviously we have the strength component to following but we wanted to get especially for those who don't have necessarily maybe a loading a good start getting used to that explosive and higher velocity moving in conjunction with that spring. There's so much good stuff and what you said there do we have to have a gym do we not have to have a gym is there only are there certain movements that we really I mean we're talking about 30 minutes of movements and Were very very specific on the work we're going to do while we're there. Does that require us to have a gym? Does that mean that we have to have certain our gym has to have certain equipment. What's that look like Yeah, I mean so as far as loading exercises bodyweight is always a great start but eventually or you know, a lot of people are already past where you know doing bodyweight squats is really going to they can do you know, 20 30 40 50, you know, standing there and that and we don't want to do that. So once body weight is good up until the point where You know, we need to increase load because the only other way to make body weight movements harder is to increase the rent which over the long term is not is not the goal. Right? We're trying to go heavy. So that said though you don't you don't need a bunch of equipment and that's why I said like Plyometrics are good for that maximal effort and activation for body weight, but ultimately like some some heavy dumbbells or something. That's that is going to train and it doesn't have to obviously like I think squat is a great movement some people if they have some issues going on can't perform the squat knee pain back pain, whatever, you know, there's the leg press So So eventually body weight is always great to start as a good jumping off point, but but definitely need to Branch off once one strong enough where you know, the rep ranges are Way too low, I guess for making where the body weight is not going to feel body weights not going to be taxing and during those strengths sets. And so so progressing into yeah like a gym. I know one of the things like, you know movements movements are going to focus on ankle extension the extension hip extension. So the big muscles, you know for cycling our calves quads hamstrings glutes. So any any activity, obviously, we want to load some of them like like squats or leg press you can load a lot heavier than when you go to maybe single leg exercises. So that's kind of like you have the want to say the meat and potatoes. Of those going heavy and then you might have an assistant exercise such as you know a single leg split squat or single leg leg press so combining those two to really get that that sport specificity to transfer right because you're only you're only pushing down and on one pedal at a time. I mean at least for the concentric obviously you're pulling up but So utilizing that specificity of movement we want to select a lot of movements that are going to mimic. Like I said lunges split squats leg, press single leg leg press and then obviously like squats but we definitely want to choose those heavier compound movements so we can load them heavy enough for that that strength component. And then also on the flip side though, you can also use those lower reps to get that velocity such as you know in the body weight as the Plyometrics, but I think I think you definitely can only get so far with body before before you you have to load, you know, the exercises more when the persons ready to do. So because you're going to really hit the wall and go into basically you don't want to do a bunch of A rep like we said we're trying to avoid tons of volume. And so so yeah body weight is good up until until that point when you need to start loading the movement because they're not challenging enough. Good easy money, man. So let's so the deal is start there. And as soon as I can tell you the people listening at home, they progress quickly. There's no doubt. I like everybody who's listening. They work hard. There's no lack of work ethic. They will progress quickly. So at some point they're going to want to look into what options are available to them to have equipment to support what they need to do and and that's part of the reason why we've looked at partnering with train heroic, which is a sister company to training Peaks because They have video support that allow people to be able to do things like assess and view what the proper form is for these because as you've said, we really really want to get proper form and that's super important and maybe just wailing will you touch on the importance of form as we start loading movements and by loading movements what we mean is adding significant weight because that's what we're talking about lifting heavy stuff. Okay. That's what we're calling loading movement. So when we start getting into Any movements really have to have our form nailed down. So maybe you will share with us why that's so important. Yeah, and so I think that's you know, that's part of the the initial program is to build get familiarity with the exercises and also yeah loading. I think you want to I mean the focus is on loading. But the goal is not to to load to the point where form becomes them because we're trying to practice good movements that will translate and activate the correct musculature. So it transfers without getting you know, the last thing you want to do is get an injury. So, you know oftentimes like rpe on you know, the first training plan is not it's usually it's reps in reserve. Ooh, and it's a marker and it's like I said, it's kind of enter discussions on that in the past. But the goal is not to go never to go to failure. At least with what we're doing now and in state where your form isn't deteriorating and this is where you know, me and Brian talk and that's great that train heroic has those instructional videos? Because we want to we want to train we want to load the movement heavy but by doing it, correct. So if we do something and you know, we're doing five reps and on, you know, we'll say we'll just say squat just because that's like the simplest and on the fourth rep I noticed. Oh, my knee is is moving. You know four inches from my left knee is moving 4 inches from going outside and kind of tweak and in bending up that's not that's not practicing the movement with good form in the last, you know, that's not that's not ideal. So we want to push within reason to pay when we safely perform this exercise and can I do it correctly with the load and it's better to start conservatively than go too hard because you will make way more progress. Way quicker on the conservative and then if you go way too hard and up, you know, even with a pulled muscle or something like that and then shoot your out for a week or two if not more so and that's that's one of the key things is if you're not comfortable with movements and this is where you know, like I can help too as far as video analysis. If you're in the close to me, I'm I don't know she can I do it? I can't plug myself right now. Those of course you can Waylon said to say see ya. So I'm out in a Simi Valley of your clothes we can do, you know walk through movements make sure everything looks good on the flip side same thing with video analysis online for those people who are farther away, but just so we can correct if you're like, some doesn't feel right. I'm not comfortable. Just like I said, we always want to play it conservative. Because the goal is once again, it's not it's to move the most weight safely to get the maximum adaptation. You can transfer it to the bike not so we can not to Ego lift and be like, oh, well, you know I did this but well now I'm injured and now I'm off the bike and now it's you know, they go. Like I said, the goal is always to complement that and to do that. We need to got a lift safely. And so if something feels wrong, you're not sure about something reach out to me for help. Reach out to Brian, you know reach out to somebody because like I said, it's crucial to do it correctly to get the training adaptations to where you're not like, oh well now like I got an a teeny and like today's bike rides or are you know, whatever it is. We just want to practice good movements and focus those movements allow the musculature that should be trained during those moments to be trained by doing the movement. I love that. That so the long and the short of it is if we can wrap this all up into a package. It's it's going to the gym is going to look a little different. We're doing Low Reps High weight few sets long rest. Okay. So that's number one piece of the pie that everyone has to do number two. We're doing concurrent weightlifting with strength training with cycling which means that they're very focused efforts. That should not take away from your cycling so you can do what essentially All the triathletes do which is double days, but we're going to do it in a very sensible way for cycling. Okay, so that's that's kind of the opening there. The second thing. Okay, is that the weight matters and lifting heavy matters, which means that form is important? So this is not and I want to be very clear to all of you at home listening to this because I have a pretty good finger on the pulse. But who listens to this and you are someone who gets after it you if you are listening to this podcast, I know you get after it. I know you give your best. I know you want to push hard. I know you want to progress as rapidly as possible. And then you're willing to do the work. Okay, I know this and that's why I'm talking in asking Shawn to be extra precautionary because we don't want to hurt you. We want your 20. To be the best season of cycling yet. Okay. Yeah to do that. It's better for us to be a little more conservative. I don't want you to hear that. What I'm saying to you is I don't think you're capable. That is not what I'm saying. What I am saying is you're wildly capable but let's not be let's not be Cavalier here. You are also capable of hurting yourself. You know how I know that because you and I are a lot alike and I hurt myself. So that's how I know that what we need to do is take a little More of a soft approach. Okay, you're not going to gain Mass. If you all the sudden are lifting a lighter weight, but still in that three to five rep range. Okay, so don't think that it has to be it just not going to be as big of a boost on the muscle recruitment side of things. So I really want people to take that home from our discussion today that that we're playing the long game here. We're investing in the long term here and this is something we want to integrate strength training we're going to do future it's about this integrating strength training into the season right now. We're doing a very offseason Focus program because the majority of our folks are going to be tala days. That's just what's going on. But as we get into January, February March, we're going to get into some different types of strength training and supplemental strength training. Okay, so we're going to get into all those things Waylon anything that you want to add anything you feel like we missed. Yeah, just I mean just for the people Like we said playing the long game because we're intro getting everyone up to speed on the movement. There is that's why I said there is some there is some more volume or it's not all three to five reps. If you know for those who have the program you're like, why is he doing this? We're progressing to get ready for them, you know and season. So this is this is a building get everyone like you said conservative get everyone ready. There's some assistance exercises and that's where you know the step. Pups the lunges you'll see it's you want to push but the goal the goal for especially like the second month is the jumps and the squats is kind of the main Court everything else is, you know assistant to that to continue to help that and the and the goal is like you said, there's there's so much time for progression and for weight and you're going to everyone's going to progress quickly, but just don't force. And let that you know really focus now especially during these first, like I said for those who have the plan these first two months to really build into you know, like there's not a rush to go crazy the programs designed to build into it. And then so we can just keep growing from there and really get into more and more of you know, the whole what we've talked about on the podcast. So don't freak out if you're like, there is more volume than other sets of a Eight sets of 10. We're well aware that you know, it is time to season to develop and build that that ground and Foundation through repetitive movement that motor learning of the movements and the basically just Build That Base to springboard into more and more training. Like I said what we talked about. So yeah, I guess I just don't want people to free Channel they see in their like, oh there's some more So this these first few are you know, the rest might be a little shorter and during that so you will maybe feel probably the closest you'll feel to your aerobic training. I feel like then that you will and as the we progress on does that make sense. Yeah, I think everyone everyone's got that. All right Waylon. We already we always close these things out with some closing gratuity. I'm going to put you on the spot tell me what you're thankful for doesn't have to be psychic. Unrelated because you know, I know you're not riding all that much these days, but you still are riding. So like what are you what are the things that you're thankful for anything shoot from the hip? Oh gosh. Okay, dude, honestly, I know this is great. But I'm super thankful. You reached out and we start talking about this because like I said, there's I've been going through I know when I quit put cycling I really fell off the map because I was burned out and coming back, you know to cycling within the last year of like starting to ride more and more and really enjoy it again. Obviously, I'm not doing the volume that I used to but the but the bikes become, you know a great outlet for me again, and I really appreciate that and just like kind of like, okay. Hey, like I have all this now. I have all this background, you know and applied knowledge and cycling and from schooling and it's like how do I blend that into help others? And that's something that I've been thinking about and then boom you reached out and I was like you got to be kidding. And it's so that I was super stoked about that man. I'm I guess I'm just grateful for. Lifton's going well for me at a little bit of a shoulder injury or there in July things things are going back up. Yeah, grateful. There's so many things in family family. I got a nephew now. Yeah things that things are good. Good good. Well, I'm super super excited that you decided and you agreed to do this. You have a great depth of knowledge that we can tap your as a family of athletes are big wheel coaching. One thing that I'm particularly thankful for anyone that followed my social media here. I did a race called the quick and dirty filthy 50 and that was the last weekend and I had a number of Fairly embarrassing. Cole issues. I was given some advice to put bigger tires on and I apologize. I know I say proper prior planning prevents piss-poor performance. But as a as a dad, I'm still trying to Grapple with time and so I did not put bigger tires on and I blew my tires apart so I would not have been able to finish that race and that to me for everyone listening at home. That's a very big deal because at the end of the day, I may not be the best but I will always finish. And always with the way I look at it and I truly would not have been able to finish. I'm telling you I put my bike on my back and ran ran the two miles to get to one aid station because I've done some stupid stuff. But anyway, my point is there were two there was a whole lot of people in the mountain bike scene that helped me one gentlemen. I want to highlight. It was a him and his body and I can't remember their names because they were from South of the Border. They were from Mexico believe it or not. They were friends of a former teammate of mine. Freire who just won the Tour of Southland in New Zealand, which a former teammate of mine James Piccoli just 1 or 1/2 years ago rather. So it's really small world that basically because I was roommates with Adder this guy was like, oh Brian, I know exactly who you are will get you back on the road. He got me back on the road and then at some point later I blew through all that and I needed another tube and then another group at an aid station. I can't remember the gentleman, but he was so thankful. So helpful. Gave me a tube and then I couldn't use this to because I had these Arrow wheels that need an extender, right and this random gentleman. His name was Joe and I need to find him. I'm going to look him up on the send him some big will coaching swag. Okay, because he had a valve extender so that I can do it. So the long and the short of it is never mind the mess. That was the filthy 50 for me because it was a great event and if you ever get to do a quick and dirty event, I highly highly recommend you do. It'd just be more prepared than I was and so what I would say is I am so thankful for every one that pays It Forward. I'm so thankful for you at home because I know I'm talking to you because you've been the ones that have helped me or you've helped others when you pay it forward. I'm just incredibly thankful for that. Whether it's a valve stem whether it's letting someone use a tool or stopping and giving somebody a tube out of your bike like the gentleman from South of the Border did from He's from actually I think he was from Tijuana now that I think about it. But anyway, that being said, I'm really thankful for that that just that's just kind of standard fare mountain bike races and it's been a long time since I've been to a mountain bike race. So to all of my mountain bike friends out there who pay it forward. Thank you and to all my road friends and gravel friends out there that pay it forward know that you made it possible for someone like me who's a knucklehead and to finish a race and keep that going because I would have been Extremely extremely disappointed if I wouldn't have been able to finish. Like I said, I ran two miles. So thank you for that Waylon. Anything else any closing thoughts anything you feel like we need to add for our folks before we get them on the road. And no, I mean I'm excited to kind of start this journey and get feedback from everyone and kind of grow and yeah and just excited to see you know, where this goes and where there's evolved and to hear a here just mucho success stories. Yeah, I was trying to think of like an embarrassing story to share from our cycling days. But honestly, I'll have one off the top of my head you first off first off you have them. Okay, I have pictures of you cycling and a banana costume. Okay. I remember when you were in a in a you you were trying to cut some weight. And so all you were doing was eating bananas and I remember staying over at your house when we were doing some races together and there was literally ate bananas in a clump and I guess that's what you would call A. A grouping a cluster of bananas. Those were your breakfast ate bananas, which direction I've never even ate Bananas a Day was 5 to 10 bro, bro. It was it was a I'm telling you you don't be don't be blushing in front of everybody. I'm telling you right now. We're over your house. There's a long yeah, there was a cluster of them and I was over at your house. I'm like, oh cool like like Waylon got bananas for everybody for breakfast. Like we got the whole team was staying at your house. We were owing to some race and you're like, oh no, those are mine. You guys like you guys can have some oatmeal here right now is like damn dog, like you're taking this weight loss seriously, so maybe it wasn't a maybe the six but I'm telling you it was a whole bunch. It was a whole thing. There was a hit. I thought it was for everyone spoiler alert. The weight loss didn't work. No, it only made you cranky. It only made you cranky. There are some good times. I still I still remember when I broke the the vent in the van the AC vent. Do you remember that when we were in a Minneapolis? Yes, and you were like whole cans over here just smashed in the team and the vids. Do you remember that one? Of course, I remember that one. So for everyone at home the notorious team van stories, they don't have very good air conditioning in the back. So if you're in the back that means you drew the Short Straw and you did you don't get to ride in the front. Luckily. I would birdie. Oh, yes and you're burning up because it's like there's no ventilation back there. And so usually I am driving this thing. That's usually how it works out until we've had mechanics recently. But usually it was me driving it and then for everyone's screaming turn the air conditioning on and somebody couldn't keep their whole cans off the vent and rip the vent out of the ceiling which was a problem. And I believe I believe it was later considered my fault somehow. I'm not entirely sure but I know I can tell you from watching your whole cans rip that thing out instead of just turning them ever. So gently as I should yeah, I busted it in because then I got stuck because then I was like do you like Hulk Hands? You can't pull it out and we couldn't get the vent it like broke in I think and we couldn't pull it back out right because I was like, there's going to be a plastic thing wiggling around in the van. Vince and then I think we I think you came in the back and then that's when you're you save the day like always fixing everything but for those of you at home that they can't quite fully grasp what we're talking about. There's usually like eight people too many in the team van with a whole bunch of trainers. We were we were back in a race in Minneapolis. So it's really really hot and really really human. So if you're in the back of the van with all the you know all the stuff Right to get us to the race because we have eight bikes on top because it's not just the six riders that are there. You have two extra bikes, you know for extras and private couple of extras there. So if there's literally 10 bikes on the roof, you've got everybody's crap and everybody inside the van and you're usually going through the epicenter of the city, which was downtown Minneapolis for the North Star Grand Prix and you're trying to follow the team car, which is very Nimble very fast and has no one in it why it ever had anybody in it will let you Home decide so we were trying to keep up with this thing flying through here. Everyone's complaining. It's too hot and Shawn decides. He's going to use his whole cans and break the day event. And so there you go. That was John you were you were young and wild then you were young and yeah now you're now you're just old and soul. Yeah, oh my gosh. I said, okay. Well then let's let's share one of you because I'll never forget this one is when we were driving back from Boise and we were we were getting close to Yucaipa and by that time what was it like a 14-hour drive like straight through Boise to your house? Yes. We went we did that like weekend trip. Wasn't that yeah you yeah, do you remember not trust me? I remember I drove I remember I know and you lat you were like got like went Road crazy and you were like talking to yourself the last like our because I was laying in the I think who else it was me you I think Chris Barn was there it was it later. Well, I was there four of us. Yeah, and I remember like laying down and then all the sudden I'm hearing you talking and I like look up and you're talking to yourself and like talking to traffic and I was like, what is we were just like 14-hour Drive. Yeah. Oh my gosh. That was a well. Thanks. It's thanks to that. I hope that I hope I was saying something intelligent, but it was probably some four-letter words laced with we've got to get this we got we've got a weave To push on we've got I mean, I'm not gonna know you can incriminate and say what was coming out it was it was pretty calm but it's it's scarred in your memory. So, you know, what was said. I don't remember exactly but it was it was the ramblings of a somebody who's been driving way too long on the road needed to needed to get out of the car. Yeah. Those were the days those were the days well anyway, okay. So for everyone if I hopefully you were entertained by that and you were educated by mr. Weyland he has a great business called Simple Fitness by Sean. We ask that you check that out like it check it out. See what you what you think you have questions. Captain directly, of course, you can always get him through through through us as well. We have a pedal industry store. What is a pedal industry store? If you just look under collections, there will be a big rule coaching collection and they'll have this really cool raised a bag. There's some changing mats and changing ponchos and short shorts socks hats and some other big wheel coaching swag. So super cool stuff and all of our vr7 cycling clothing should have been sent out and and delivered this week earlier in this week. So everyone should have that second shipment of big wheel coaching stuff. If you haven't please hit us up or or let us know because we want to make sure you have that and send us a picture or tag Us in something because we've course would love to see you guys wearing it. It's just like I'm so humbled that people are buying the stuff in and wearing it. It looks so good looks anyway. Thank you very much everyone for listening Waylon. Thank you for your time. And we look forward to doing more podcast with you Waylon, and we look forward to hearing more success stories about people lifting heavy stuff. Later.
Many cyclists have a love/hate relationship with strength work... They love the strength built in the gym, but often struggle converting it to "on the bike" power and loathe the extra mass that comes with a traditional strength training program. For road racers, endurance mountain bike competitors, and gravel junkies, that extra bulk built in the weight room is so eschewed that skipping the gym altogether might make the most sense. After all, taking away 1-3 riding days a week in favor of strength training doesn't add up when your goals are endurance events that are 3hrs, or more, in duration. But there is a solution, as emerging research supports, a way to build strength without bulk...  And even better it works for Athletes working on a "time crunched" schedule! In this weeks podcast we explore what we at BWC HQ have come to call, the "Lift Heavy Stuff" protocol with Shawn Wayland of Simple Fitness by Shawn. Shawn is a former professional cyclist and is completing his studies to earn a Masters Degree in Strength & Conditioning. There are few people with the strength training certifications he possesses that also knows the demands of being a top-level competitive cyclist. It's a great episode, one you don't want to miss! **************************************************************************************************************** Are you in need of well-built and highly functional gear to support your cycling habit? Of course you do! Be sure to check out the BWC collection of Pedal Industries gear including the incredible Race Day Bag at the link below! https://pedalindustries.com/collections/big-wheel-coaching  We hope you enjoy this episode of the BWC Podcast and it will help you work toward being your very best in your upcoming events! #TrainYourPotential Until Next Time, Be Safe, Train Hard, & Have Fun! -Brian and Joy McCulloch Big Wheel Coaching, Inc. 