Welcome back to the Macan dog podcast episode 57 of our podcast. And today we're talking about a rather controversial topic when it comes to dog training. This is something that you know, usually stirs up some controversy and I think instructor Shannon has really done a great job at communicating what we've seen as professional dog trainers over the 40 some odd. Years that McCann professional dog trainers has been in business and I want to get right to down and dirty with some dog training myths and the title of this article that Shannon has created his dog training myths the rest of the story. I'm Ken Steep and welcome back to McCann dogs. So Shannon, this one is near and dear to your heart. I think we often, you know, certainly dog training. There are lots of myths there are lots of opinions and there are lots of facts and I think that everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they're not entitled to their own facts and this article that you've created really dispels some of those untruths those myths Those ideas that people may have about dog training now. I know the ER this is a very passionate topic for you and was there some event something that you had been seeing what was the reason that you felt it was important to publish this article. There's a lot of repetitive messages that float around on the internet and on Facebook and these are three that I have been seeing a lot lately and I thought there's so much more to these stories than what these. All memes that are popping up all over the place are able to address and it's like with anything right you get this immense topic and you break it down into subtopics. And then in those sub topics you have little little quips of information and of course the quips of information don't tell the whole story. They only tell that little quip. So if you're I mean I experienced it with things that are outside of my worldly knowledge, right? Dog training obviously is something that is in the Forefront of my mind all the time and I can pick out the fallacies very very easily because I have the experience of 20 years of actually training dogs under my belt to be able to say no. No. No, that's not going to work at all or yeah, I love that idea. I'm going to try that idea and you know, see if it can evolve my training a little bit more. So Within These quips I find that there are some things that are starting to be very bored. Underlined dangerous in spreading just that little bit of information and leaving a ton of room for filling in the blanks on a topic that people maybe are not as well versed in as they should be to fill in those blanks. So, you know as an example if I was going into an industry that was foreign to me and I simply had you know, one little piece of information and then tried to go and put out fires for example with just that one little piece of information you need water to put out fires. Okay, that's great, but there's all sorts of different. It's elements of fires. There's all sorts of different materials that you don't want to put water on, you know, and and As A Firefighter you would be able to recognize those fallacies instantly, you know know you don't want to put water on a gas fire, etc. Etc. But if you don't have the experience in that you might run with just that idea of water's going to work to put away put out fire. That's great. So I wanted to delve into some of these things because I was starting to get concerned with how often I was seeing some of these messages and and that's what today's blog post is about. I think that one of the really important things that we need to keep in mind, especially in today's society where we have access to so much information, but we often find ourselves in these little Echo Chambers where we communicate with people that at the exact same beliefs that we do that we expose ourselves the algorithms for example, whether it's YouTube or Facebook or Instagram or whatever it starts to pick the ideas that you would agree with because of the social signals that Gets from those things. I know that a tactic that Palm readers and we're getting a little off topic but a tactic that Palm readers will use is they'll use a very specific trait or piece of information will say for example by looking at your hand. I can see that you can be quite stubborn and psychologically. What we do is immediately search for confirmation. That's just how our brains work. We are we look for confirmation in a statement, especially if it's something about at us and we'll be able to pluck those things out. Now. What a researcher did is he first time he had spoken to this one person said you can be quite stubborn and the guy said well, yeah, I can certainly be quite stubborn and then later a couple of hours later you say to you know, keep you can be really flexible. You know, when you're dealing with things. He said you're actually that's right. I am quite flexible. So we look for these confirmations. Now what we need to really do and what we pride ourselves on it. McCann dogs is being objective, you know. Looking at the results, you know, we're always changing small tweaks in our dog training as we move along. We do different different orders different patterns different things. But ultimately the objective is the same and we're always so focused on having our students be successful having us be very successful in delivering information. And I think it's this is such an important topic especially right now when you know social media is Ablaze with different ideas and different methodologies. Allergies, so let's get into your article. What's the what's the the first thing when we talk about dog training myths that comes to mind that you'd like to address. Yeah, and this is the one that I'm seeing a lot popping up on my news feed on Facebook. And that is the idea of asking your dog for consent. And this is an idea that you know as a broad idea. Okay, that's all well and good. But when you start to narrow it down to situations and and scenarios where you might not Get consent from your dog. It becomes concerning because you're not always in the position where you can walk away and come back and try again later. I personally think that's a really poor way of going about dog training to begin with. I think that we should always stay in the moment and keep working through until we get the end result in the you know, unless you've you've worked it out Ad nauseam and your dogs tired or they're there they're worried or there's something external going on but If it's a situation where you know, you you need to take your dog to the vet and they need to be examined. You don't have the option of saying. Oh he didn't he didn't agree to consent to have the vet touch him. So we're going to have to go home. Now. You might have a dog with an ear infection. You might have a dog that is sick. They need to be able to be examined by the vet. So I thought this little quip, it doesn't answer. What in my head become three main questions and one is what do you do when Don't receive consent from your dog one is what do you do when you don't receive consent from your dog and you have no choice but to move forward you have to handle them that scenario at the vet where you know, the vet needs to look at their ears because they're badly infected or something of that nature and you know, the dog chances are they're in pain. They're not going to Grant consent. So we need to have training and things in place that say to the dog. Sorry buddy. I know this hurts. However, you need to comply because it's for your own good and then the third question that I had is where is the information to help people understand first off when the dog is not consenting why they're not consenting and what you need to do to turn that no into a yes. So those three questions in my mind need to be addressed when it comes to anything dealing with consent and I use the analogy. I do ask my dogs for consent. There's no question there because I don't want to ever just Say, you know, darn it dog. You're going to give me your pain. I'm going to trim your toenail. I'm we don't want to be tyrants with our dogs. We want them to enjoy all of the things that we that we need them to participate in. So as an example when I'm trimming toenails in my house, I invite the dog up onto the grooming table. I never have an issue with that because they loved it up there. They get lots of reinforcement up there. And then the first thing I will do is I will put out my hand for one of their front paws and most of the time 99% of the time I readily get a pop put in my hand. Because I usually will reinforce that jumping up on the grooming table and giving me your paw get you a cookie just about each and every time however, there's going to be times where you don't get consent. And if I invited either of my dogs up in the grooming table asked for their paw and didn't get it. I would not simply say, oh he didn't consent. So we'll trim toenails later. I would reach in and just gently run my hand down. My dog's leg pick up his foot and then go ahead with the nail trimming and they wouldn't get the cookie for that. So I am not being rough. I'm not you know, I'm not saying you're a bad dog, but I need to trim your toenails and as an adult and as the responsible person in the relationship, I understand that that is an important thing for foot Health. It is so much better for you if your nails are kept short and if I do those Nails once a week, so you don't have the option of saying no you can't do that. But if you are compliant and if you are a Cooperative you get great things, so it's definitely well within your wild to be cooperative. Of but you don't have the option of saying no with that the consent line of thinking. I mean, I don't really understand it. I guess that well, but where's the where's the opportunity for growth? Like the identify a challenge work through a difficult situation and come out on the other side with a dog who's motivated confident. I mean, I just I think there's a bit of a breakdown there when it comes to introducing your dog to new. Yes, definitely and I think that I think that if we fall into the habit of all we always letting the dog make the choices and make the rules in the house. We're actually setting ourselves up and we're doing such a disservice to ourselves and our dogs because of course their dogs. They have other desires the you know, they'd rather they'd rather sniff the poop out in the yard probably then come into the house when you call them to come into the house, they don't have the option though of making those choices because we are the adults we are the ones Is that have to say you know what? It's time to come in the house. You just need to do it. I'm not chasing you around for an hour. And hopefully you set yourself up to get positive responses in any of those scenarios. So with the asking for consent thing, I would never simply go up to a dog and insist that they allow me to handle them without prior training. It's so so important to have worked through all of this handling and making sure that your dog understands that you touching them is a very positive thing and you trimming their toenails is Something that they need to be afraid of and you grooming them is wonderful and the Vets, you know, even though innately they might be afraid of the Vets because they go there and sometimes not so pleasant things happen. It's so so important that you've at least done the work getting up to that point where your dog understands how to be handled. They understand how to be still when you've asked them to you know, Reggie my old boy he is he is I would say fearful and very in very few situations. But when He's fearful. He's extreme and he turns off he won't take food. You know, he can be very overwhelmed when there's social pressure involved. And of course at the vet that's extreme social pressure with the Vets. Leaning in the vet techs putting them in headlocks taking their blood, etc. Etc. So with Reggie rather than just say, oh, you know what it's going to be a nightmare every time we go to the vets. I have worked so hard on all of the things that the vets in the vet techs might do to handle him and I've Associated those things with Pleasant things but outside of the veterinarian scenario and that's what's enabled Reggie to get through those situations where now he feels this social pressure and the end the terror starts to take over his head. I can say hey buddy, you know getting between my legs sort of thing and I will stand over him with with my hand under his chin to support him and he relaxes in very nicely in that position and that way if they need to take blood they can go in through his neck or they can go in through his paw. I've got control of his head but in a very gentle way. Where he he understands this position, you know, we have done a lot of work at home with him in this position and lots of really really good rewards and reinforcement so that I have those things to rely on now that I'm in the scary scenario where he might not offer consent, but I can say hey buddy, I got you. You don't need to worry about it. I know you don't want to be here and you don't want to do this but it's for your own good and we're going to get through this together. So he's got that background in that history and that is so so important you don't ever want to take The dogs into a scenario and just insist and then and then whether the battle that's going to come from that. I had a vet say to me one time that they really liked when our students come in and I thought well that's that's one of the nicest compliments I've gotten as a dog trainer, but she said that they're that that we put so much emphasis on handling with our puppy students. You know that it's really important that you can examine your dog that you can handle your dog's legs and feet and their ears and these things and the vet. It was just so impressed. What at the students that would come of our students that would come in to see her and all of her texts agreed which is it was just such a nice thing, but it is it's an inevitability your dog will need to go to the vet. They will need to be handled and it's already a stressful experience. We just in the last couple of months. We had an unfortunate situation where a dog got really sick and we were at the Vets a lot and it's already stressful thing. So to have your dog be more Trouble to be more confident to not be fearful while they're being handled. It's just that it's I mean, it's just such a nicety. But like I said at some point in your dog's life, they're going to need to be handled. So it's so important to give them even if they don't love it at first to train through that to really help them to be successful to reduce the amount of stress definitely and to teach your dogs that fighting with you in any way is how they get their way or drawing or pulling away from it's such a terrible lesson. I never want my dog to think. Oh, I just I just hold out with whatever I don't want to do and you go away because then my dog is controlling what I'm doing and in a very negative way. I need to make sure I teach my dogs that you know, what yes consent is a nice thing to ask for and if you don't Grant it, sorry buddy, we're going to go through with this grooming process anyways, because that's just the way it is and then of course once they settle in and relax and you're working through this and there Happy or there, even at least calm you can reinforce that and you can build the idea that complying and being cooperative is what gets them all the rewards in life doing the opposite of that gets them. Nothing. It doesn't get them all the good things. And I love how you segue into the next point in your article about never saying no and the idea that that your dogs never wrong. I think diving into diving into this next part is is it so an important element of dog training and really understanding how to help your dog to be right is to letting to let them know that they're wrong sometimes. Yes, definitely and there's a lot there's a lot of information out there and I really don't understand the motivation behind it. There's a lot that barrage of information out there that is designed to make us feel guilty for telling our dogs know and I'm sure that it's the same with children. There's there's always going to be huge debates and how to rear children. Learn and how to rear dogs there is absolutely no question that there's always going to be disagreements, but I truly don't understand the motivation behind not giving the dog a fair chance to learn both sides of the equation, you know, if I only tell my dog when he's right, how do I set that up when he makes mistakes? How do I give him feedback when he makes mistakes? And I think some of the motivation behind it is probably fighting the idea that every time you say no it's something harsh. It's a correction or It's you know, a leash correction or a intimidation tactic or something of that nature. No, it's not at all. You can say no without being harsh or punitive. You do not need to be harsh with most dogs in most scenarios. It's easy to just say hey and interrupt the behavior and then when you get your dogs, redirecting and attention focused back on you, you can tell them what you want them to do instead. So for example, Reggie good old Reggie. Painting him in this in this podcast. He loves poopsicle else. He loves winter time and poop circles in the yard if I simply waited for him to stop eating them so I could tell him he was a good dog. He would never understand what it was that I was asking him to do. So, what I need to do is take away the rehearsal in the reinforcement of him eating those poops the coals, which means I need to tell him know when he's thinking about them when he sees one in the yard, and I haven't picked it up yet and he heads over to It I need to say hey Reggie leave that so that he knows that is not acceptable. And if he picked one up, I would let him know that he needed to drop it that that was wrong and then I can tell him how to be right once he's dropped it. I can say what a good boy. You know what let's go up on the porch. You can lie down and I'll finish cleaning the yard we can do all sorts of productive things instead of him eating that poop. But if I only told him when he was right, he would never be able to put that together and I don't understand why. Wouldn't want to give him as much information as I possibly could to help him be successful. There's nothing wrong with saying no it does. I mean you have to think about the the intervention of human intelligence here when we say no we're not hitting dogs with baseball bats. We are using the the calmest and easiest way of saying no that we possibly can sometimes that's going to be a little bit of a leash correction depending on what's going on most of the time it's just Interruption and it's just a means of giving the dog ugh clear and total information on the scenario. I know that when I think about things like the down stay and you know, all of the dogs that we get to see every week, you know, Shannon's what Shannon's talking about is something it's not just an idea that she's had it's through her experience at McCann dogs. We have more than 500 dogs came into the training facility every single week and over since 1982, you know, this this more than in dogs every single week our had instructors have a meeting on Wednesdays and they talk about every single dog in the program where they really assess how the dog is doing and etcetera so that everyone can sort of offer some advice and suggestions and you know, just sort of get a general overview of the dogs performance and maybe where they need to go next, but I know as a instructor when I see someone that's working on something like the down stay for example, if someone isn't clear with their voice, it's the moment the dog gets up in Mark that moment and then go back and show the dog how to be right the people that don't follow through then maybe maybe they'll bring out a tree at read and you know, they won't say anything when the dog gets up at they'll just guide them back those dogs struggle the most income later in the program. Those dogs are the ones that look, you know more anxious. They look like they're not really sure what the expectation is in our expectation is that they remain in position the clearest and most Fair way to help. Dog to be right is to get in there and show them how to be right by replacing them in that down position. And I know that's a very specific example, but even in my experience over the past 10 years and I'm just one trainer, you know, that that is something that was very apparent to me even early on now what Shannon's talking about it? I think I think that I think you're absolutely right. I think that people who don't want to use the word no Envision themselves as As a tyrant when they use that know and they they think the idea of telling our dogs when there were when they're wrong includes some sort of, you know, a physical assault and that is weak. I can't read we can't reinforce that enough that is that is definitely not the case. Our focus is the dogs attitude. You know, we're everything we do is to make our dogs want to listen and you don't achieve that through fear and intimidation. That's just not that's that's Not a you know an efficient or successful way to accomplish that goal. So I think letting your dog know what's wrong really solidifies for them. Understanding. What's right. Definitely without question. I would absolutely endorse that a hundred percent now something that we we've talked about before and something that's really very important and something that we've resonates with our audience is the idea of being a great leader for your dog and I think you know some people of the same camp to thing using the word no is is bad might think that being that leadership is is is a bad word as well. And that's how you've titled the next paragraph So talk let's talk a little bit about how leader the benefits of leadership and how leadership is can be perceived by some methodologies as being a bad word. Yeah. So I think the the problem is the word itself and the word leader tied in with pack leader which ties In with pack Theory which has been debunked. So now there's a facet of the dog training world that is trying to get rid of the word leader because that makes people think of that the pack hierarchy stuff. I also think though that there's a there's a big movement to try to put us on a Level Playing Field. So I'm sure this has happened in parenting as well where we're trying to put the kids on the same level as the parents and we're trying to put dogs on the same level as the humans and call us, you know partners and team mates and all that and we are there is zero question in my mind that my two dogs when we are training when we're competing, you know, when we're doing anything they are there. They're my friends. They're there. They're so near and dear to me, but I have the responsibility of keeping them safe, which means I need to be a parent. I need to be a leader. I need to be somebody who takes charge and takes responsibility. Its ability and direct the dog where I need them to go or how I need them to go in that direction and that doesn't make me a tyrant. I'm not I'm not relying on Old Antiquated Notions of pack leadership to call myself a good leader. The world was built on good leaders, you know, good leaders are good bosses are great leaders good parents are great leaders and good dog trainers are great leaders as well. It's all about setting the dog. Up to do the right things. It's about making sure that you have enough information into the dog before you do things like take them off leash. For example, you've done the training that you need to so that you're not going to be calling them Ad nauseam and damaging your relationship or having to get angry with them or chasing them down or any of those things and it's about managing things in the interim so that they don't get into Mischief while they're in the training phase. It's about knowing when to pick your battles. And knowing when to be a little bit looser with things it's about giving good direction and showing the dogs how to be right and making sure that you're using opportunities where they make mistakes to give them reinforcement for that. You know leadership is not a bad thing at all. I strive every day to be a good clear calm and kind leader to my dogs and I would never want it any other way and there's something you and I often. In speak about is being clear consistent and fair and I think being a great leader is someone who really understands how to do that, you know how to teach your dog give your dog the information that they need while being clear consistent and fair all the way through now, I'd love to help people have a deeper understanding of how dogs think and learn it and I think somewhere that they can do that, especially something that you've worked on recently. Is this our free Workshop. I think I'm free. Shop is a great opportunity for these guys to dive in deeper to dog training and it arrives in their email inbox every single month. So tell us a little bit about the free monthly Workshop that you've created for our listeners definitely so every month the first of every month, we'll be releasing a new fun free workshop. And the first one is an attention Workshop. By the time we are this podcast you will have access to the crusher feet trick Workshop as well. And then They first we'll have another one coming out. So they are absolutely free there about three days each and lots and lots of fun to work through. We're going to concentrate on obedience skills and tricks and fun games as well. So there's going to be lots of variety in the in the workshops and we hope that you'll join us for them. Now. I want to thank you guys for listening to this podcast. This can be such a polarizing topic and regardless of what you what your opinion is. In terms of methodologies, I think really we're all working towards the same objective, you know have a dog who loves to work for us loves to listen loves to work with us. And you know, we've always had this sort of middle of the road approach to dog training and that's not that's that's a choice that we has been made over the years the evolution of dog training and the evolution of the McCann method, but it's all it's based on Yes, it's based on the success of tens of thousands of dogs. I mean that just can't be disputed and occasionally will get you know, someone will reach out and they may be disagree with any sort of replacing your dog any sort of leadership for example, and they just they just haven't had the exposure to dogs that McCann fresh little dog trainers has when we talk about our amazing staff, you know, there's 16 full-time instructors that have Brings so much to the table have so much experience outside of family dog training. They do different sports do different things. They've really, you know, we have such an amazing team at McCann dogs. And we everyone you know has input everyone shares their experiences and that's really where the value of our understanding of how dogs think and learn comes in and I know Shannon you're definitely a huge part of that as you create content for our social sites. I think that I think that one of our biggest successes stems from having open minds. So rather than painting ourselves into a methodology and joining a cult and saying we will only do things this way. We have these great big tool boxes because we keep an open mind to the methods that are out there and I'm 20 years in on this and I love finding new ideas. I love coming across things which is why You know, I comb the internet for things. I'm not I'm not just sitting in the in the little bubble and hoping that a better method will follow my lap as I'm out there. I see things that I love and I see things that I'm not so sure about and I see see things that I'm really eager to try and whether or not they work is going to be found out down the road. So we I think that's one of our biggest strengths is keeping an open mind and knowing that not every problem is going to be a nail. You know, they have that but if your only tool is a hammer you better I hope that everything you come across is a nail because otherwise you're going to be out of ideas. So hopefully you've got an open mind. You've got a big toolbox and in the end at the end of the day you're comfortable with what you've decided to work with. What's really important to remember for those listening at home is our perspective. You know, we may have a grade one class with 12 students in it 12 different breeds of dogs 12 different kinds of human students, you know, how they learn and every single dog may present. And I'd completely different training challenge may be adult one dogs a little bit worried or maybe once really stimulated by motion and maybe one dog doesn't like to take food and that's I mean it really drives home the point that there's no one way to train a dog you do need to have you do need to be versatile with, you know, a sort of a common Foundation a common understanding of how you're going to achieve success, but you do it differently with every single dog. I think that's really an important takeaway for our listeners today. Day, I couldn't agree more now. If this is your first time on the podcast make sure you hit that follow button. We publish new episodes every single week to help. You understand that the why behind how dogs think and learning Shannon? I want to thank you for joining us. I loved this article and if you listening to our podcast would like to read instruction Shannon's blog post. I'll drop a link in the show notes below, but on that note. I want to wish you all happy training. I'm Ken and this is Shannon. Bye for now. Everybody. I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Macan dogs podcast. And if you'd like some more training resources, be sure to check us out on YouTube Instagram and Facebook at McCann dogs. And if you'd like to train with us online, be sure to check out the show notes below for my dog can online training program where we know in just a few weeks. Your dog will become a well-behaved family member until then Happy training.
It amazes me how small our world is these days. If your message is strong enough, it can easily make its way around the world, which makes for a lot of power and a lot of responsibility. The power is in the message, the responsibility is in the user validating that message. Unfortunately, responsibility is the component that is often skipped. The Internet is the medium that provides a means of exchanging info, but our attentions spans continue to grow shorter, so the messages have to be quick and concise to get our attention. This means a lot of the details get truncated, leaving confusion and lots of filling-in-the-blanks. It often reminds me of the game of 'telephone' where a line of people would share a bit of information by whispering it from on person to the next. The point of the game was to show that inevitably, the message would completely derail by the time it reached the last person. The internet often reminds me of that game. I've truly learned to question EVERYTHING I see online these days. That is the direct response to seeing myths passed off as fact within my own industry. It's easy to believe things that are outside of your immediate knowledge base if the marketing is slick enough, but when it's a subject that you know more thoroughly than most others in your world, it's much easier to see the holes and question the message! So let's talk about some of the current well intentioned messaging that's gone through the proverbial game of telephone and come out distorted and confused on the other side. ~Ken 