Hey and welcome to BTS podcast. This is your host when I cook on BTS podcast, I talk to people about the behind the scenes of what they do, which is what BTS stands for is behind the scenes. So if you thought this was going to be about the Kpop band. I am so sorry to misrepresent the podcast to you, but hopefully you like it. Anyhow, this episode is with a ten winterkorn. She is based out of Amsterdam. She's at Future Factor where she is theActions director prior to Future factors. She was at management events where she was the head of the AI and Robotics segment, which means that she organized conversations from Visionary leaders around the world surrounding artificial intelligence and Robotics. So she created programs for AI and Robotics events in Sweden Denmark, Finland Germany and the Netherlands and helped connect a lot of these thought Leaders with companies who could use their thinking this episode was recorded shortly after 8 EE Which is the Amsterdam dance event where she was the moderator on a panel about article 17 which we get into a little bit. But mostly we talk about her experience organizing conversations and managing events. And we talked about what it's like being a woman in the technology space. I really appreciate an end thinking and her time and I just had such a good time getting to know her and learning more about what she's gained from her experience in the tech sector in Amsterdam, please do subscribe rate review. 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I had a great time getting to know a tan and learned a lot from her and I hope you do too. Hey, welcome to BTS podcast. This is your host Lynn a cook and I am in am Program shortly after 8 ee with Aaron winterkorn did I do your first name? Right? Yes, very good. Thank you. So and then is the connections director at Future factor and prior to that you were at a company called what's it called management events, I think management events and you were the head of AI and Robotics statement. So I guess to start off before we talk about like the behind the scenes of what you do. Can you explain what you do? Yes, definitely. So if I have to describe my career in one word, it's basically networking. Mmm. So I've been working on building relationships throughout both my previous role and my role now in my previous role. I was curating events building them from scratch basically calling up people within a certain Target. In my last job. That was Ai and Robotics and doing research on what is their strategy within the company? What are they working on? What are their challenges to build an event from that with an event program finding speakers to fit that program and then connecting them with solution providers that match with their needs basically with their business needs so I've been building. A ships within Fortune 500 companies there and from that experience curating event programs. I started at the reputation management agency future factor and what we do we basically build Visionary leadership or help can help companies find their Visionary leadership and bring that to the earned media space. So either in media on podcast, but specifically also on stage Is so I'm practically a contact person or strategic middle person between event organizers and our clients and our team to find the right content for the right stages. That's so fun. Yeah. What a dream. Yeah. I know. Yeah, I really like it. So previously you were connecting companies with software they would need right and then currently you're more of getting companies heard in the right spaces. Is that accurate? Yeah. Definitely Okay and like within that I took some notes from her LinkedIn just because I think you were did it really beautifully which by the way she has one of the nicest linkedin's I've ever seen. Oh, I definitely recommend if you feel like you need some inspiration for your own pop over to hers. There will be a link of to it in the description of this but it's really beautifully worded to describe what she does in a way that I have definitely struggled with my own LinkedIn. Well, thank you. Yeah, so congratulations. So what you were doing previously and I bring this up because Because also you were there for many years you were creating event those events, but across Europe, it sounds like like we ask that you so you'd list in Sweden Denmark Finland Germany and the Netherlands and then I loved also that you called out that you were looking for solutions for challenges surrounding new business models and implementation of AI R is what you're doing now still very focused in like the AI and Robotics space or is a little bit broader know we focus on Innovation. Hmm. We work for you for example with a digital agency in Amsterdam that does AI projects but we're focused broader also in companies that really believe in creativity as a tool for business growth and companies that are very focused on brand purpose like improving sustainability and finding diversity and inclusion within their business. So that's awesome. How rewarding I don't like the efforts you're putting it on a daily basis are laddering up to supporting solutions to Everyday problems and problems of like the past and future. Yeah, but that's what we want these days, right? Yeah one companies that believe in something and that reach something that's higher than just like commercial goals. Yeah, certainly. Yeah. It's definitely I am very thrilled to see it in the public discourse because for years it was not something I heard. Anyone talking about and perhaps that's because there wasn't as many platforms for people to talk about that the prior to social media where would people have been heard outside of like trade Publications or like op-ed pieces in different like the New Yorker or whatever. So I think now as having social media and YouTube and everything that really helps and also listeners. Hopefully, you can't hear it. But if you hear some clicking around it's a it's a friend's dog. We're not sitting here tapping our nails on the table greatly. So here we keep corrugate. It's a very cute corgi. So you see a variety of dynamic set of events and a wide amount of topics covered and that that got me thinking about a few different things. And so the first of which is have you encountered challenges when speakers on a on the same panel or same amount have opposing ideologies, or do you vet that ahead of time so I haven't experienced. Just any myself, but actually add the past Amsterdam dance event. I heard that a panel needed needed to get cancelled because there was there were people from a Latin American country on it and basically in a electronic music in Latin America is for the elites and the really yeah like because it's more of the like the club bottle service seen. Is that why yeah, basically, I don't know too much about it. I have to say, but they had to cancel it. As they just got into a raging fight about yeah, we can't focus on the scene the clubbing scene in this country focused on electronic music because the music of the people is more like salsa and like because it was like a classicist issue. That's interesting. Yes, that's super interesting. Well, I'm very glad that that was not your panel because that sounds very dramatic. Yeah, definitely. Lee but I wish I mean I wish it would have been because I it would have been a nice challenge to get them on stage. Anyways, yeah because that's when the interesting the magic happens really if people don't agree a lot of panels are so boring because everybody agrees with each other I hate to say this but I agree with you because it'd be great if we couldn't disagree and have a conversation about that, but I completely agree with you and I think you know a lot of that has to do. With Ike I mean, I really can't think of a single culture where confrontation can be like a constructive thing. I think because it's not really human nature. Like we we see a lot of things as a dichotomy which you know can be like well my opinion is right and yours is wrong versus going like, oh obviously your lived experience is real and you arrived at this place somehow and I respect your intelligence at as an individual. So let's Like figure out what it is that makes you think the way that you think and maybe I can learn from it and vice versa. Yeah, but so often times it is not that yeah, so that's a real challenge super interesting rights. Try to achieve that. Yeah, that would have been fun. Well, maybe next time. Yeah. So what do you makes a successful event? Why do people go to events right people go to events for the networking usually and to meet Bowl and I've been to really really big events that don't do anything specific to kind of catalyze that so I do feel that events that have certain structured networking setups those can be really successful and that can help a lot especially if you're kind of shy person and you don't naturally just go up to somebody you don't know which is a really hard thing to do. Yeah, so So if they have structured kind of interactive sessions or round tables or setup one-to-one meetings or any other type of networking instrument. I think that's really good. That's a good point. So you mentioned round tables what sort of round tables set up do you think is like have you seen be really successful in getting people to connect and really get conversation started? So I think that a really good table host is crucial and a good table host consists of somebody that doesn't necessarily I want to give his own opinion, right but it's really kind of engaging people into joining in the conversation and to have a good a good discussion topic that you know, people disagree on yeah because you had could have something like okay is brand purpose important for a company and then everybody's going to say yes, probably. Yeah, so you need to think about a little bit More controversial questions or topics, maybe? Yeah and probably open-ended is oh, yeah, definitely for sure. What are what are some of your go-to is like what are some of your favorite? Sorry to put you on the spot? That's a really hard one. That was an open-ended question. I'm taking my own advice. I need to think about that a little bit. That's okay. We can also come back to it if you think of some later. Yeah. Okay, let's do that. Oh, I just forgot my question. So So you've obviously seen a lot of people speak what have been some some things that you've learned about public speaking or things that you've kind of picked up in terms of practice along the way about a good speaker. So a good speaker uses body language as an instrument to kind of amplify your point. So and people can see me doing this, but it's going to happen. So if you like making a list or something, then you can move a bit which by the way to like play a game of like charades what she's doing is she staying list is she's like mimicking out bullet points with her hands and you know, as soon as she said to use body language, I don't know if it was conscious or subconscious, but even those was just recorded she immediately started using her hands are like she forgot she should be doing it in this moment. So that's it. That's a good point. The body language is good. And what else? Yeah, it's really important that if you make a point that you stand still mmm and that you take up space and I was just talking about this with one of my speakers that is really experienced. And a lot of women are kind of a little bit scared to take up space. Yeah, they usually sit cross-legged and like maybe hold their arms as we both are right. Yes, exactly, but you need to take up space to be able to make it. A strong point so which can be hard as a woman though because I think we all know that when we stand a certain way that then you look like a football player instead of a lady, you know, because we also I mean I imagine I speak for a maybe not a majority but I would venture to say that a lot of women we still want to feel like we look good and a lot of times looking good is closely associated with like smaller. Artists like features and being smaller. So that is really hard to take up more space - as a woman when you have that as a value and maybe you don't want to stand with like your legs hip width apart, especially in a dress. It's just not comfortable. If you're in a pencil skirt. We can't we physically will break our skirt. That's true. But you can practice and I would really recommend to practice with this because you can stand with your feet like in front of each other, but you can also stand and that's still Ladylike like for example, if you just stand with your feet straight. Yeah and have one knee a bit bent then you can still and you're standing for example with your arms and your side. Yeah with your arms out wide, then you're still taking up more space than when you have your legs crossed and your arms crossed. Yeah and doing all your emotions, like what as she's saying that she's also mimicking some of it and one thing I noticed that in the list of things to do a lot of your arm motions were out to the sides versus a right in front of you. So, you know, if you're going to clasp your hands, maybe consider putting your elbows out further or instead of gesturing toward the audience are toward the camera in front of your body to do it sort of on the outside of your body. And like I don't know if I like you're starting a cartwheel instead of instead of going just straightforward. Okay? And so and I like the point that you said that that speaker, I don't know if they mentioned all of this to you, but I know that you mentioned the thing about like when you make a point to stay and still that's an awesome point. I had not thought of that when I watched TED talks, but now that you say that I do recall that there's a lot of when they make a point, they stopped and that acts as a nice sort of nonverbal punctuation. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah definitely. So what else so I think talking slowly is also a very important because when you're nervous then people start the speed up. Yeah hook faster and faster and faster. Esther until you can barely hear anymore what they're saying totally and the way to do that is really practice out loud before hand. So if you do your talk out loud beforehand, maybe once twice or even three times then your know which words are kind of coming out wrong or which parts are a little harder to pronounce things like that. So that's really helpful. I think. Think that's good to know and are there anything else any other sort of things that you've noticed? What about presentations? So when we go to see a talk with want to learn something, right? We want to get inspired. So the most inspiring talks are always that have really practical takeaways and then if you have a talk with really concrete takeaways for really concrete. Just that the audience has then that's the best match that you can have. Yeah, so well, I mean with like PowerPoints specific, you know on somebody has like their visual presentation. Oh God as little text as possible. I'm so happy. You said that definitely just images basically maybe one or two words is fine. Yeah, but the worst thing you can do is have a presentation full with text because then and that's also what I was discussing. Messing with my speaker before she's actually a speaker coach. So she tells that or she says that people should be the director of the audience and you should be the director of kind of what you want to say and your point and you don't want the PowerPoint to be the director of the story. I absolutely yeah, so if you depend on the power point that has all the text on there and to tell the story for you then nobody's going to listen to you. Yeah, that's there was a festival I went to recently called thrival and I went to two back-to-back the festival. So when was called thrive on that was in Pittsburgh and the other was seen by your beta which was focused on synthetic biology and it was fascinating because there were three presentations. I saw at thrival that were all incredible and mostly with mostly they like you said leaned on visuals there was Amy blackmun's presentation and what I liked about it was that the visuals were great. But then also on each sort of section she had the pull quote that you would want to say from her if you were tweeting it on the slide so that you didn't have to like try to be typing furiously or writing it down if you're tweeting from the event and then my friend Gary Gonzalez who his background is in esport strategy whenever he said his point, that's when he had the queue for it to go on the presentation. So you couldn't read ahead right, which I thought was nice that like it had the numbers out, you know, like 93 percent of whatever and the statistics out there, but it was mostly Visual and as he said every point it came across but then I think what I saw that I loved that it was somebody from a robotics company name Bossa Nova a if you're listening to this, you should definitely watch their ad because it's probably one of the best ads for a robotics company I've ever seen just in terms of the awareness. That like if there's a robot in your grocery store people will notice like it wasn't like the robots. We're interacting seamlessly with people without people turning and I think it was a very good but at the end he had just his last closing slide had literally like verbatim the things that you would want to tweet from the talk, which if you're at a presentation hoping that people will tweet about it. That's what you would want is just what you want people to say to make it easy and then in comparisons and bio beta I learned a ton but a lot of the presentations because they're scientists were like science poster boards. It was insane like everything was like huge charts and stuff on it where I was like, I guess I could dig into this if necessary, but it was impossible to focus on what the person was saying, right? Because I was like staring at these charts trying to figure out like how they were genetically modifying vitamins to know what your body was doing and stuff like that. So I like that as a I'm glad we agree on that because I don't know what I would have done if you said As much text as possible. I would like can you elaborate on that? Please pulling together speakers? Is a lot of work, I don't even have to do it 9 to 5 because this is just my podcast and I will say that it is a lot of work even just for this podcast what sort of tools have you used that help you plan effectively that help me plan where that helped me reach out the speakers. Well the reaching out part. Because I imagine it's multiple phases. Right like you're going to have sort of a research part where you're looking for people and then your wedding those people. So let's talk about that part first and then we'll talk about the rest. Yeah. Yeah. So research. Yeah, I used to do a lot of research over the phone these days. I do more research online by just reading articles about the topic. Yeah and kind of snowballing from that. I read a name here and then search for a different terms and but before yeah, you get a lot of names from research as it is you I always ask people like do you know any good speakers about this topic or what kind of topic should should be on stage what kind of Industries and then you start kind of making a dream list would be your top top top people and going From there basically approaching those first. Yeah. And are you making that list into Excel or using bookmarks to keep a list? I did used to make those in Excel. Yeah, definitely and then you can ride down like market and colors if you've approached them and yeah, yeah other like practical tools I use our Google keep I love Google keep it's just like a very straightforward kind of follow-up list or to do. List notes and I use one notes. I love OneNote is very structured. I love the tabs. Yes. I have an obscene amount. Yeah, same and amount of note notebooks, right? Yeah, definitely four different notebooks with million different tabs. My real-life notebooks are no different. I like sitting here with a eight and a half by eleven. How do you pronounce? Is it lectern? Is that how you say that like notebook brand damn talking about it's like a want to say it. The Scandinavian brand I only know merly skin Oh, which we just same old Skinner - Kim Yes, sounds disgusting the way that this name of it is much nicer. When I first heard someone say that I was like, oh, it's literally from like a mole that's gross, but I want one of those. But anyways, I have one of my aunts and uncles they got me like a packet of notebooks and I have like one that's for Creative thought someone that's for work thoughts and then I have Small like red ones and so but then I travel with all four of them because so I just there was a there's been a few times where I'd like misplaced one and been like I can't do anything in that category because I don't have my notebook. So yeah, so one note is much nicer because you can't lose that if you back it up and then once you've done sort of that coal and cultivation and then like you said you keep track of who you're in contact with through the spreadsheet and Link tracking. Yeah, which you can also add into OneNote. Okay. Yeah true. There is that and then from there like what is the planning process like for you or was there an advance team that would put that together? Like how do you sort of like prep people for the conversation? What's that process like so we had a very structured process with a research phase where you already would sign in some speakers with a P1 deadline program first program ready deadline and the end of the research phase then you would start. Are have an Advisory board meeting so a couple high-level people within the industry that you bring together to discuss the program and then you will get new ideas based on what are the gaps within the program but challenges aren't answered yet. And what kind of Industries are we missing or what type of companies and then from that you can build further and kind of Finish it, but I would start with an event nine months in advance. Wow, so you would they be yeah, it is like a baby. Yeah, honestly when when it's done, you're exhausted and happy right and unlike a baby. You don't have to take care of it anymore. Yes exactly. I love it. So then how have you vetted new speakers that don't already have. Any online or recorded speaking engagements, so you never know really how they're going to turn out but the best practice is just talking to them on the phone going by and sitting in a meeting with them. Just get an idea about who they are how they speak. Yeah, how their kind of body language is are their kind of are they kind of shy or are they? Going yeah, so that would be really helpful just to speak with them and to talk with them about the topic which you want them to speak on kind of challenge them by asking them a bit harder questions or bit controversial questions if they can respond to that Weld and yeah and is it an awkward conversation if you've had to say hey, I don't think you're a good fit or because I just imagined I dread the day that will come someday when I asked. Someone to be on the podcast then we get on the phone like you and I got on the phone before this having to get on the phone and go like oh actually don't want this person on my podcast. Hmm. So what some wording that you found that that was good to say like, hey, maybe you're not the right fit for this. Without feeling offensive. So if I'm not sure about somebody I would never invite them straight out. Yeah, I would just say like, hey, let's talk on the phone to see like if you might be the right person. Yeah to join us. Mmm, if you have the right story to contribute and then you get the opportunity to first kind of check them out and kind of talk with them and yeah and figure out what their story He is and who they are as a person. Hmm. But then still you can make the wrong decision. Yeah, sometimes it happens. We all have off days. Like I imagined there have been people across a variety of speaking engagements who may be on a different day would have been perfect but then their nerves or family situation or they're tired or whatever. It may be can really make for a bad output. I think it's very cool that of all the topics that you have been around a lot that the topics You've been around our Ai and Robotics because that means that you've gotten to be at the sort of the Forefront of where a lot of our technology is headed. And as we know like technology impacts everything about our lives. Yeah what and I know this isn't necessarily related to your job. But what are you the most excited about after hearing the conversations that you've heard? Well, so I come from a doctor's family like medical. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah my Both my parents are GPS. My grandfather's GP. His father was GP. My brother is in like Health policy and economics. So, yeah, so yeah, so I really come from a medical family and I think like the tools that a I are going to give us for example, you can with image recognition you could just scan a mold or something like that and it can give you with Such a high probability the outcome of what that mold might be and like can you give me an example even mold like a like a mole? Oh, I'm all mo. Yeah like Moleskine. Yeah. Yes, like potential skin cancer most. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, so it can provide tools to increase the probability of right diagnosis. Yeah and proper self die. Gnosis, like imagine the appointments saved if there was an app that you could just scan your own mole. Although I do think that self-diagnosis is really tricky because it really stimulates kind of what's it called hypothermia at the other thing hypochondriasis that well, but that's I sort of mean it in with that same concern is that then instead of people freaking out and going like, oh I have moles. I need to go to the doctor. But they could then calm their own nerves and scan it and be told like by an app or whatever. Hmm. Actually, this is a very normal mole if it you know, yeah, it's weirdly shaped or whatever XYZ and rather than because you know, you'll see people who Google like what a bad mole looks like and then they sort of like insist that there's this bad even though doesn't meet the criteria yet. If there was a two-way conversation versus that one way conversation where they Could scan it that the word really is like spare just a sort of a lot of money spent. Yeah and doctors time use that like those appointments could be better used for somebody who it does have a chronic condition because I don't know our doctors appointments hard to get here. Um, not a GP appointment but a specialist. Yes. Yeah or for example Mental Health Care. There's big waiting list for those really which is probably the worst thing to have a waitlist for yeah, I guess so like if you think about the state that you're in if you really need to see a mental health care professional. Yeah waiting a month is probably not the thing. You want to hear. Yeah, there are lots of like And so if you're really suicidal or anything like that, then you don't have a waiting list. Well, you don't have to end up on a waiting list. Yeah, interesting. Yeah, just I know it's really difficult a lot of times to get a doctor's appointment in the US and then they take forever. So I just think that yeah, that's that's a good. Yeah, I could see why you're excited about that and what else? So driving cars. Yes. Can't wait for those agreed. I mean have you been a nanny? No, I haven't not yet my chairman for the AI conference like the European business AI robotics conference he had one but I was too scared to ask him if I could take it for a spin. I mean the thing is he wasn't his car would take you first. Yeah, I guess so. Yeah. Yeah, but just like That's just sounds amazing that we don't have to own cars. We don't have traffic jams anymore. We just we don't have to pay for parking spots. Yeah, and all those kinds of things that are clutter up our city. Yeah, those can be kind of and the reduction like the safety Factor. Hmm. I mean, I know everybody has their concerns about it and things they may not see however, I would venture to say that people cause more accidents. It's definitely and we said we would all like to think like the point of an accident is that you don't know what's going to happen. So we would all like to think that we would have bad like better reaction timing or we would have known better or whatever, but there is sort of like perhaps some cognitive dissonance there where people just don't I don't know. It's an it's not that dissimilar actually to the way that people just assume that they would make better choices than other people and decisions with like when you know, they're in crisis or whatever and so like it's all we had just assumed we would make a better choice than a robot. But you know, most people aren't good stock investors for a reason. Yeah, and you're not that good of decision make no and computers Don't Panic so exactly they would keep the same. Same calculations the same exact calculations as when you're in a or entering in a kind of car crash then when you're not so and humans would just it's it's a real reaction. It's a natural reaction to Yannick which we need. Yeah, very useful in some situations. Just not when it comes to cars better for being chased by a lion necessarily driving an Hitting a car. Yeah, definitely. So with your role at Future Factor, what have what have you learned so far in your six months there? So I'm learning a lot about the kind of creative industry about. About the way that that kind of industry is at the Forefront of what's happening in in the world and it seems like in terms of talking about Innovations talking about diversity talking about brand purpose. I feel like the creative industry is very much in touch with culture and modern culture is very much connected to it. They have sort of like a symbiotic relationship like they're both driving each other things that make sense. Yeah, and I do believe at the core of innovation is creativity. Hmm. So you can't innovate if you can be creative and you can't think of different kind of ways to to do something differently or to figure out a need and what kind of possible answers would be to that need. Yeah, what specific projects or creatives come to mind when you You say that so I think for example Nike is very Innovative in the way that they communicate. Hmm. They're very kind of diverse in their communication. They had like platforms digital platforms before any other kind of retailer had that to customize or build your own product. Yeah. They are also, They have a very clear sense of purpose to inspire every athletes. Yeah, actually, I don't know if that first part. I think that Vans might have done that before Nike. Really. Yeah. I think that Vans let you customize your own bands before Nike had Nike ID. Oh that could be I could be wrong and maybe that's me being like Southern California Centric, but I was pretty into shoes in high school and I remember very vividly that you could Customized vans and like Vans of this shoe brand but then also Sion let you customize Saiyans for whatever reason. Okay, let's look it up and all ended up and I'll get to the bottom of this but I agree with you because in addition to the Nike ID. They also like their sneaker app and then Nike run club, which is free Nike Training Club, like those are all sort of to me they're communicating with you in a way. But then with Nike Nike running club, you can like see what Friends are doing and stuff like that and you can message your friends. And I think that one of the most beautiful sort of moments I ever had with a brand was I was at the gym and I was doing a Nike Training Club video and these two girls came in, you know, and just like the free room and the gym where it's sort of like a yoga studio, but when it's not in use you can do whatever in it and these girls came in I saw what they were doing and they were also doing Nike Training Club and then we all just did it together was like very very cute. So yeah, I I definitely hear you on that. And who else do you think is doing a good job or like is there a specific campaign you've seen that was really impressive? Well, so since I started working at Beauty factor and I went to can this year and I saw like a bunch of can rewarded campaign. Yeah all the tearjerkers. Yeah. I didn't know that like advertising could make me cry, but the dream Crazy Cow. Pain from Nike is so emotionally touching God. I know it's beautiful. Yeah, it is really beautiful. They there's a lot of tear-jerking ads out there. Definitely. Yeah. So on actually another were talking about ads that I started thinking about the panel that you were moderating it 8ee. There is a teehee Yeah, Eddie and Jim dance events. That's what it is. I'd like messed up the letters earlier today, and I had to correct myself. So thank you. I looked at the panel that you're on actually today and I have been withholding this during our conversation before this. I'll entrust me. This was like hard for me to hold back when we got coffee, but I know That one of my friends was on the panel that you were moderated a really yes Kyle. Oh, yeah. Yeah head of Music supervision at at Microsoft Microsoft. Yeah, which we've been friends for a while. We have similar friend groups and I knew he was in music and he hosts like a at least one very like popular like Radio Show in Seattle. I thought that that was his main job. I had no idea that he was the head of music. Yeah permission at Microsoft like I didn't know. No, he even worked at Microsoft. I just knew he was here also 480 and then we were both too busy and didn't meet up. And so then I looked I text him today. I was like, oh you're on this panel and also like you work at Microsoft no idea that we did it for probably like four or five years, which is hysterical. So that was about Article 13, which is around IP. Yeah. How did that go? Yeah, so it's actually called article 17 now. Oh, really? Yeah, so that's really weird that kind of weird sneaky move by the government trying to detract attention from it or something by renumbering it. So it's now called article 17 but yeah legals not really my area of expertise, but I was just super excited to get involved with ad so so how did you prepare for that? Because I imagine that you I mean, I was very impressed. You're probably the most. I guess like a diligent about making sure you're really prepared for this. I mean everybody else has definitely taken interest in like prepared, but I think you were you you may be the only person I've talked to on the phone prior to recording. Oh really? Yeah. Typically it's been very much like via email. Then we like talked for the first time. Yeah, that sounds and I was actually glad and mostly it's because I'm too shy to ask for a phone call A lot of times. Was good practice for me. So I imagine if you were that diligent about this, which is like not necessarily work-related for you at it's not in front of people write like this is hidden behind like speakers that you were probably very diligent and researching for for the panel which you you know, isn't your expertise. How did you how did you research for that? Like, did you talk to any thought leaders in the space first? I did online research mostly just reading a bunch of wired articles. Watching videos on it. Yeah, and then mind mapping. That's like my thing if I'm do you use the do you use the mindmeister told? No, I do it like on paper Okay felt pens and be colored pens. Yeah. I know. I really like like your notebook my notebook. I could show you later. It's full of Doodles and that's awesome color. It's kind of section tabs and all that. So awesome. I love it. I take like these big Ace. A piece of paper and a box of colored pens and then I well I did research on what it was try to explain be able to explain it simply to other people and then once I know that if I can explain something simply to another person. Yeah, then I understand it. Well enough. Yeah and then kind of research what are the pros and what are the cons so you can Yeah, like Devils out for could basically yeah, like before we were discussing people shouldn't agree with each other and then the moderator if they don't agree. Yeah with the people on the panel if they all agree, then you can get a bit both sides of the discussion. It becomes tricky when things are sort of like hey, this is an attack on creative and any other opinion isn't allowed. So what were some compelling sort of each side of the argument that you found for this. Well the Repelling side of the pro argument is that it's better for the artist because the artist is going to be more equally compensated, right and that's what I found find the most compelling arguments. Yeah. What about the other side the other side? So they're afraid that it's gonna put a break or put a stop to do user-generated content. So a lot of content is going to be wrongfully blocked them Tick Tock and things like that. I don't know what that is. Oh, it's do remember that musically. They probably don't comply with like EU standards because Tick Tock is owned by a company. I think called bite dance. I could be wrong on that that's beijing-based. But it's like all the videos of teenagers that you see that are like lip-synching to their favorite song, right? Yeah like that sort of thing then because of article 17 the artist should get compensated for the use of that song. That video as you're leaving this conversation, you're obviously speaking to because I know it was Kyle and there were I think two it was a music publisher. Uh-huh from a French music publishing company, right? And then there were two lawyers to lawyers. Okay interesting. And so with that then was there room for audience questions at the end. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. How did you because I've seen audience questions go very Haywire as I'm sure all of us have yeah. In your experience what have been some of the best ways to preemptively get people to like really get to their question or be like brief and to the point. So to be honest, I wouldn't give them a microphone. Okay step one. Yeah step one don't give them a microphone to hold in their hand. Tiny index cards. The holiest one sentence can fit up. Yeah, or just if you hold the microphone keep holding the The phone then you can like have the risk of pulling away. She's gesturing like taking a microphone away from somebody or I really like slide. Oh, what's that? So slide? Oh is a conference tool where people on their phone can log into a certain room and then they can send questions and digitally and then also other people can vote on that question. So then the question that's most voted. At the top. So then are you saying those questions as the moderator or do you have sort of like a background moderator who's looking at that and bringing them to you? Because I imagine you also want to be engaged in the conversation as it's happening rather than checking a device. Yeah. Usually the the questions would be handed handed to the moderator. For example, I've had conferences where like seminar hall manager for example checks the questions and then gives them to the moderator when the time. QA audience Q&A is there. Okay interesting. So did you get I don't know that you have a good experience overall like yeah, I mean, it's super fun to do. I really like doing their first time already. Yeah. Oh, okay. Well moderating a panel discussion. I've done like hosting a day or a stage like bring the chairperson for that day for internal events and like opening an event. And with just saying welcome word and things like that, but not really moderating the way I did with any and so then did you go to any other panels or like talks at 80? Yeah. I saw it a really interesting talk in the morning about kind of well being as an artist. So if you're touring if you're DJ and you're touring and you're playing late night shows all over the world and how do you kind of stay healthy? Did you know that that's an ongoing topic on this podcast for artists? Really? Yeah. Oh cool. It's something I talk to are like artists about who wrote to her. Yeah, that's so who was speaking so I can't remember exactly but it was moderated by a woman called Claire, right? Okay, who is working on a really cool new app? That's also focused on well-being in the dance and the music industry and then there was I think a psychologist. Oh cool and a Dutch really well-known Dutch DJ 30 course te okay and one other person but I thought oh, yeah, I think she was running. She was running a kind of artist Collective. Agency that manages maybe manage the artist or something like they focus on keeping the healthy. So interesting. Okay, that's really yeah. It's it's been cool to watch that rise just across Industries because it used to be you know, unless you were super famous. It wasn't on your mind and then athletes would have people like that but I was in China for League of Legends World Championships, which is like a computer game and they actually had a Like Riot has a fitness trainer and house to work with like the pros and their team like somebody that would like take them all on runs and like make sure they're eating healthy and like do workouts with them and stuff. So it was crazy to see that like in a sports specifically and then definitely I've noticed it become. Well, I think also it's our age that like if you have friends in music and you're all encroaching on your 30s, people are starting to see their bodies fall apart and you know, peers die. Or be hospitalized because of the way that they're living their lives. I Tommie Sunshine was supposed to be on I think that's his name. Does that sound right? He's like a DJ. Yeah, and he's I want to say in his 40s because we have some mutual friends in their own their 40s and he's sober and so we will record when I'm back in LA, but we were going to try and record when he was here for iate, right? It doesn't work out to talk about kind of like the journey Being Sober on the road and stuff because that's something that's not common. Yeah, and I think it doesn't only apply to artists, you know, right like businessmen all the time. Yeah, it was a businessman but like if you travel a lot for work period Desmond really easy for people to like develop addictions and hide them. Yeah, and I feel like work-life balance is something that we're all struggling a lot with yeah and mental well-being pushing yourself. To be successful at your job, but not only at your job also have a big social network and then have a lot of new experiences and this is just our generation. It's fueled by social media. Like everybody's lives is just amazing. That's what you're constantly getting through social media, which creates kind of a pressure to have the same thing and also be successful at your job. And yeah and and have a lot of friends and Experiences because when we are like if you think about it our parents and generations before us didn't really ever have to like Define themselves, they could just exist but when you have to fill out a bio, right like when you think about the first time you ever met an online profile, there's an About Me section and then you're like, oh I have to write about myself and my a funny person do I just write my age like is my age a character trait right? Like yeah. How do you so I don't Think it's that when you know, you hear people say like well our generation like our work was in our life and it's like yeah, but I need to put something about my life in this box whether it's on my Instagram profile or LinkedIn or Tinder or whatever it is. And so when you have to Define yourself that way then also you find yourself living in a way that lives up to that because you're like oh, but I said, I like hiking I bet when was the last time I actually went hiking or I said that I do this and like that's who I am now. So then as you change you literally art sort of force in a way to then like reconcile that in a tangible way with your online profiles. Yeah, and like then the whole world knows your job title and that's when people can compare like, oh she's a director. I'm only a manager. Like people start thinking of things that way like why am I not as far as my career as she is but that's not like we wouldn't be doing that if we were just not creating those about me sections and like what's your job and things like that online you would be having more human conversations like, oh you're a director. What's your role like da-da-da- How is that like and then we may realize like, oh, you've actually worked a lot harder than I have. No wonder why you got that role and I'm over here is like an associate or a manager. Whatever. Or you may go like, oh actually that means a different thing in the different organizations that were in yeah that happens a lot. Totally I was at an event recently and they had this practice like it go up to a person and introduce yourself, but you can't say your name or your job. Yeah or like the real relationship the way that you came in here why you came in here? That's good. Yeah. There's a good guy but some famous dinner parties that that's his rule. Also cool too but so he curates these dinner parties with like, you know, really smart intelligent people, but he hasn't the same rule. Oh, yeah, and I think that it's a good way to sort of like strip out a lot of the What is sometimes sort of like a pissing contest? Hmm But is also sometimes I realized people just literally don't know what else to say. Yeah, like they're not trying to say like I'm important. There's just it's more like a I don't know what else to say. Like when you talk to little kids and people ask them. What do you want to be when you grow up like we just don't know what else to talk to little kids about when a little kid would be totally fine being left alone. And you not asking too many questions, right? Yeah. What do you think is the most difficult part about your job? Who? I think building lasting connections. Mmm is always tricky because with some people you have a natural Rapport, right and then it's super easy to build a relationship from that but then when you have other people that you don't have that natural connection, yeah, then you still have to try to build it. Hmm. So that is really hard. Yeah, and also, I mean in any job time management Prioritization is really super complicated always especially if you're communicating with people across time zones. Oh, yeah. Oh my God working so much with LA now and just between 5:00 and 7:00 p.m. Is always so full right because that's five is when they wake up. Yeah, so they have maybe one or two hours. Yeah to communicate with them. Yeah. It's a very and I've worked with like when I was living in Seattle for a while. One of my main clients was in Taiwan and that time difference is very similar. And so it ends up when you're in a time crunch you end up being either pulling really wild hours or everything's been getting done too slow because you send something over, you know, you don't get their response until the next day maybe the day after and it can really just elongate communication processes. Yeah, definitely. Have you found also if you don't answer is it's fine and I could just cut Part out. But have you found being a woman mostly dealing in Tech the world's with this? Have you found that people make assumptions about you that are not true or like don't treat you with as much respect for not being on the technical side. Like have you found that to be sort of a an odd space to navigate? And that what I guess challenging space to navigate. I haven't experienced it as challenging but people do assume that I'm not on the nickel side. Hmm and people do assume that I don't know that much about Technology. Hmm. So I guess in that sense. It's kind of it can be tough to be taken seriously, but it could also be an Aegis thing right? It's not necessarily sexist per se right, but could also be ageist. I've known a combination of age and gender. Yeah being a younger woman specifically. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, definitely in my old job when I was communicating with super sea level people that are in their 50s and yeah, they have a tendency to think like oh, who's this Twinkie? You know? Yeah. Definitely. I've never heard that word before really. Yeah. What do you find in the most rewarding part of your work? I really like that. I work on a project basis. So you work towards a certain events or certain panel discussion or a certain kind of launch or whatever. Hmm and when you're at the event and you see everything that you've been working on come to life hmm, that is just can feel so euphoric. Definitely. Yeah what to you I guess like, how are your events? Like what defines success now in the event that you do? Oh, that's a tough one. I guess if a lot of people come and if connections are made that you didn't have prior. Yeah, if you get a lot of good feedback, although Word of Mouth feed bags, not really trustworthy because people will tell you to your face like, oh it's so good and oh that kind of feedback. I see what you're saying. Yeah. So yeah, I Tend to lean more towards the numbers. Do do Anonymous surveys ever in my previous job. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, and then actually this is something I was thinking about and I don't know if I messaged you about it or if I was just thinking about it, but for events here, is it mostly like do do it on a vent bright. Like is that more popular our Facebook events more popular like digital promotions and RSVPs, like what is sort of the go-to for spreading the word about About events here. So we do use Eventbrite but is not as big as in the US. Mmm. I did think about this and I have to say I'm not a hundred percent. Sure. Mmm in my previous job was invitation only so we didn't do really marketing. Okay, so we just call people up to invite them to come right or send email specifically to them because we want to qualify that only decision-makers only. Like sea level people come right and now the events that we go to and that are kind of high on the on the Wisp. Wish list of clients are events that have a reputation within industry. So people know about those anyways, they would be subscribed to we like a newsletter of that event so that you know, when a speaker line-up is out. Yeah things like that that makes a lot of sense. I guess we LinkedIn a lot to promote righteousness events. Yeah. Let me just browse here real quick. Did the did it done? I think that you've covered everything so well and I can cut this part out. Also. Is there anything that you want to talk about that you feel like we didn't cover. So we were talking a little bit about mental health and about pushing yourself. Yeah, and I just See a lot of people around me that are pushing themselves really hard and that they want to achieve everything at the same time, right? Yeah, when you start your first job you want to be successful immediately. Basically you immediately want to have your dream job. Yeah, and then once you get your first job people are very ambitious, and then that's only work. Then people are also I know from from my own. Areas, and from a lot of friends that I see around me that they also try to achieve in sports like be very fit and and have big network of friends and have a lot of experiences and I really learned last year the hard way that you can't achieve everything at the same time. Yeah, and that you can't kind of focus on everything at the same time. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's really important to try to focus on one thing at a time. Yeah, and and not be so hard on yourself to make everything happen at the same time. Yeah, well sometimes because I definitely am guilty of the same and it took me a while to really digest the advice that my friend Trevor gave me well in fact I heard it before but when he said it to me, it really stuck because I've seen him grow in a variety of ways of the years and challenge himself and go from just different. He's just learned a lot over the years like from learning learning Chinese and Spanish to learning more about coding and like he's just done and absorb so much information and that he was like, you just have to break everything down into baby steps. Hmm. Definitely and so you could hear that every day. And then someday it might just stick like it didn't stick for me until my late 20s. And then when he said that to me granted, I'd heard it many times. I was like, oh, yeah, you're right. Mmm. I can't I mean I play drums like we were talking about earlier and if I don't practice for six months, I can't sit down and be as good as I was a year ago. So even if I just practice 10 or 15 minutes a day that's you know progress, but I used to be so hard on myself and be like, well you need to sit down and practice for an hour. Like you haven't Flex that muscle in a long time like I ran a marathon too. And I certainly could not go out tomorrow and comfortably run a marathon like I would chip away at it if it were a fitness goal. So, why would I not chipping away at it in terms of learning something or whatever that may be so I think just your and also the other sort of thing I spin up in my head like, you know, you can't do everything all at once. It's like oh if I did everything that I wanted to accomplish next year then what would I do? Yeah, right. Like what do I have to do? 30 probably everyone in my family all the women live for forever. Like my great-grandmother lived to be a hundred. Well, my grandmother's 89 my other grandma is in her 70s like What am I going to do for the next 50 years? Yeah, baby steps right exactly. Like it's okay to take baby steps and give yourself time and when you feel you know, like the moon cycles and we also have cycles of productivity and the meeting rest and so yes, have you read the artists way that you do that book at all? No, I got you have to do it. I should you you're definitely should like I will send you a copy of it. It's that It's that impactful well because it really helps you just give yourself the space to experiment and like realize that doing things wrong is also part of growth. Right like we didn't learn how to walk or read or talk properly overnight. Hmm. So why would we suddenly become brilliant at any one thing over time like it takes time and that's okay. Yeah. Definitely. It's literally fine. Yeah. To do that. So no, I think that you're right. What is there are their apps or anything that you did to kind of help reset your mindset around that subject. No apps. So no phone good. I'm happy to hear that definitely just like shut off your phone for day don't look at your phone because your phone is such a source of so many impulses. It's very pavlovian. Yeah, and it's very kind of messes up your brain a bit. So sometimes you need a break and then let people get pissed at you for not responding for two hours because if you had a house phone they wouldn't be complaining. No exactly. Like yeah, it's really I think those boundaries and setting giving yourself the boundary of like, oh, I don't need to get back to them. I don't know what the emergency number here is but I always tell when people say like, how could you my phone is on airplane mode from 4:00 p.m. Every day until noon the next day. Oh well and so forth on do not disturb. But I keep on airplane mode basically all the time also, and so when people get upset and go like well, what if there's an emergency I'm like well then you should definitely call 9-1-1. Yeah. Yeah. It's 1 1 2 here. Yeah, that's a good call one. One two, there's I wish I knew it off the top of my head, but I read recently a really great out of office message from an account manager at an agency where they set the standard with account manager. Is that like when they're gone they say I'm out of office if there's an Emergency, like it's probably not an emergency or something today. Like basically just you have no reason to be contacting me while on vacation and so is there anything like did you start? I don't know other than turning off your phone. Was there anything else like kind of big lessons or sort of like mottos that you came to give yourself? So a super important one is listen to your body because we can ignore that were tired. Yes. So well, yeah, I was so far over my boundaries that I didn't even know where my boundaries were like in terms of physical because I'm super tired. Okay. I'm going to go for a run and then I'm and then I was saying why yeah, I was gonna grab some energy, but you're just like depleting your adrenaline. Yeah gland totally adrenal is that yeah. I think that's the one it was and renal. Yeah, because I did this did you have adrenal fatigue? Yeah, me too. Yeah, and it totally messed up hmm everything. Yeah, like disher do go to like a natural medicine person like a Chinese medicine or anything. No, I went to a therapist psychologist and started taking magnesium is really good too and just sleep and do relax and restore yoga. Yes agreed and that does not mean hot yoga for those of you listening that yeah in Power Yoga, no relax and restore. Or yoga GS just get a massage. Yes. Definitely. I love that. That's great. So before before we wrap up the last question I asked everybody is what is something you would want to hear a future behind the scenes episode about so I got a little time to think about it because you were so kind to let me know beforehand and I would really like to hear from a modern-day grew. Okay. So any one particular no, no, not in particular just one with a lot of followers and that one that is still alive. Okay. So like who do you think of when you say modern-day go over like so I'm just starting to watch this series Wild Wild Country. Oh, yeah, but that one's not alive. And I know my aunt's is following their whole leader. Not necessarily. Okay. It doesn't necessarily need to To be a cult because then it's well, it can be it would be interesting is what no fun. Yeah, I would love that but also like just a Buddhist kind of you know, or some somebody like, how do you get into that? How do you become like a spiritual leader? That's very interesting and I have a lot of opinions on how but you should I don't know if they have HBO here do they you can but it's not on the cable network or anything. Okay. Well if You can find access to it on the world wide web somewhere. Yeah, I'd definitely recommend watching the righteous gemstones. Okay, it's amazing and it's hysterical as based on a mega church in Texas. I want to say well, I mean that's like what the story is centered on like it's not based on a true story to my knowledge, but I don't know. I don't know if you're familiar with what a mega churches but not really there's sort of these like enormous like I would venture to say multimillion-dollar Church establishments where like the pastor's are like broadcast across like popular like TV stations on the u.s. Like they have best-selling books. They go around like tell you know, they go around and have like Tony Robbins like they're Christian. Yeah Christianity is still so big in the u.s. It is still very big of you. I'm sorry just like so far. From my bed. I was born Christian, but I feel like that's just that ship has sailed. It has disappeared into the abyss may be the best like International difference shocking like conversation I've had with anybody maybe and I've had a lot of like wow your country does what conversations with people over the course of my life and that maybe my like favorite response ever. Yeah. It is still quite quite a big in the US. Wow megachurches. Well, I guess I mean you have the Vatican here, so I guess I shouldn't be so surprised that is at least rooted in. Assemblance of tradition. Yeah, like but still it's like it's that's multi-million dollars because some of these like there's some they're not quite megachurches, but they're like really huge churches, especially like an Orange County that are in these enormous warehouses like Yeah. Wow. Yeah, it's amazing. It's amazing like a a certain type of way. Okay. Well a leader from a megachurch. I would also be very much interested in I would dig in I have some well and I have some friends who I know go to sort of like celebrity like spiritual advisors. I'll dig around and maybe I'll have a few different ones on because you have spurred a new category because like on this podcast I have like sort of like an entertainment track where like you can listen to people across the entertainment industry where I handling musicians in a stand-up comedian. Like that and then I have strategists and CEOs and Founders. So like you may have spurred in that new track. So thank you for that. Well, thank you so much for being on. I really appreciate it. Where can people find you online. Should they follow your LinkedIn? Are you a big Twitter user? I'm not a big Twitter user. But I do use Twitter. It's eaten winterkorn. Okay, and you can find me on LinkedIn. It's Ila winterkorn is That the handle perfect. Yeah. Awesome. Thank you so much for your time today. Yeah. Thank you for having me. I'm super honored please. Thank you so much for listening to another episode of BTS podcast. Please be sure to find BTS podcast across social media join the Facebook group where you can submit questions for upcoming guests. Ask questions about previous episodes or submit topics that you would like to hear covered and a quick Pro tip. I am a huge fan of breaker breaker is absolutely amazing for listening to podcasts. They allow you to skip silences create playlists. So if you find me when I cook on Breaker, you can follow me which whatever do it don't either way is very much up to you. But definitely I would recommend looking at my playlists. I've compiled playlist around what it's like being a woman in male dominated areas and it's just called being another woman Emoji. I have a playlist called mental health that is a compilation of episodes that I've found very helpful in terms of my own mental health as well as a playlist around futurism a playlist. Customer experience. It's a really good way to see what people are listening to and get put on two different podcast. I love their skip silences feature. I have saved probably days of my life using their skip silences feature. And again, please be sure to subscribe rate review use my promo codes for hotel tonight and sued again. That is out-cook 6-1 to save on your hotel booking with hotel tonight. You can just sign up and submit the promo code right away and then it will still apply some day when you go to book a hotel. And then use code LD L RZ to save on your suit booking. Thank you for listening music on this podcast is by Benjamin the therom thank you Ben. You can find him at soundcloud.com. The theorem there is a link to that in the description of this podcast, and I hope you have a wonderful day.
Irène Winterkorn is the Connectiors Director at futurefactor, a reputation management agency. We recorded this episode shortly after ADE, where she moderated a panel on Article 17. Prior to her role at futurefactor, she was Head of the AI and Robotics Segment at Management Events. She shares detailed observations from her experience in booking speakers, connect people, and relationship building. We discuss successful roundtables, building and curating events, and being a woman in tech. 