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So like yeah, I've tagged you a couple times my Instagram stories and I saw she was in Dublin and I was like, I need to chat to her and she died once I only yeah, I was like, I was like 25 God she was like on what I was like, I'm I don't know does he this is the first of all thank you for making time for me. Thank you for having me. I am very humbling. Oh, thank you. Yeah, I well. I don't know why I'm think I'm cute. And so Joanna just go through your course because that is a lot to do with like what you share and what you put out there on your social medias. Yeah, so I'm nearly finished up now. I'm finished once I had my thesis in at the start of September, but I'm coming to the end of a Year's Masters. In the politics of conflict rights and Justice at so us which is an incredible University in the University of London. And it's pretty much what you like what you see is what you get. It's the politics of conflict rights and Justice. I became very interested in Conflict studies and the politics behind why things happen rather than mainstream politics, which I'm not particularly interested in come the end of my undergrad and this Is the only Masters I applied to and I got in I was lucky enough to get a place and it has just been so formative. I think it really check. I'd become quite exhausted and like just kind of disengaged with Academia come the end of my degree. I couldn't see myself ever. I was really but kind of like a hive to go now into a master's. Otherwise, I'm not going to job but I wasn't feeling energized or excited about it within a month of being in so Earth my All out of Ghana Academia had changed because I was being taught by academics who are the best in their field a lot of women of color which made a huge difference. I was in Trinity for my undergrad which for me seemed like quite like a patriarchal white. It is a very patriarchal on white University, which is the opposite of what so s is. It's so diverse. The student body is incredibly colorful and mixed and people from all over the world and amazing female-led. Make staff which makes one feel really empowered. It's really empowering and I've really felt like I would have the right to support to achieve my potential as a woman which I didn't have in Ireland. Yes. It was great. And obviously I feel like my brain just got smarter over the year. I literally feel the brain is a muscle and when you work at those get stronger, it's crazy. I literally feel like I got smarter over the year. I wish I could say the same so I actually first heard of so a cinema dauber use book and and it just like it sounds absolutely incredible. Do you wanna like just tell me the not obviously like you don't have to know everything but the history generally of so ask because I couldn't regurgitate it but obviously in there I'm so so is a really it's honestly just a fascinating place to be it's really small University the campuses right in the center of London like a 20 minute walk from Oxford Street, but even at that it's so quiet and if you walk into so us and there's just people from all over the world wearing like native or religious dress students coming to college sitting in your lectures. You know, what you don't get here. You're never going to get that in Ireland, but the purpose of the University. I mean, I'd say the founding or like core principle of everything. They teach across every discipline is kind of this idea of decolonization decolonizing thought and how we discuss things and how we I'm think about the world. Because I'm not sure how old so asses but around a hundred years ago when so us was founded. The reason it was founded was to kind of train or teach some of the officers and officials that they had going out to the British colonies about the countries that they were colonizing because if you need if you want to take over a whole country of people you need to understand how they think and what their cultures and religions are how they navigate their world. In our society. So while they were maybe using this information for the wrong reason, they did have an incredible wealth of knowledge and research about so many countries in the global South and ended up in the developing world. And then in the mid nineteen hundreds there was kind of a complete ideological switch in so s and I did like a 180 and instead of being about trying to conquer the world, which is just a horrible thing. It became much more. Ston allowing people from those regions to speak back. And yeah, so they have a lot of access programs for people from developing countries or people from conflict-ridden zones, particularly, if those individuals want to study something or take a course relevant to the country they come from where the issues are experiences. They have had and so I mean even that in itself makes for such an interesting student body and when you're in a master's course with people from Parts of the world. You never thought that you would meet or from people who've lived through things like the Arab uprisings and stuff that we only saw in the media. You know, it just is a learning experience. That is honestly invaluable. Yeah, it's not not only that you're getting learning from like the actual school. It's like everyone around you everyone you speak to your learning from Mmm. It's as much the student body as it is the teaching staff. Yeah, and I mean every university has its funding issues and like there's been a bit of stuff in media about like so it's not really having great funding and stuff this year which has made things really difficult for that for the academics. But I mean, there's a very little that I can fought so us on from my years experience there, especially when I compare it to what Trinity was like for me. Yeah. And what did you feel in Ireland? Like obviously it wasn't the same type of course, but how did it compare in the way that you were taught? The biggest difference would be the people who are teaching it? I mean you know and so I see if you're taking a course on State and Society in the Middle East, you know, there's a really good chance that you're going to be told by a woman of color from the region who grew up there who lived whose life experiences are from that country and it has to overcome barriers won't like I is like a white middle-class woman would never be able to understand and their way of teaching is going to be informed by a lot more than a white male academic teaching in an Irish University, which is The normal kind of yeah lecturer in Ireland particularly in politics and really because you're being taught by somebody whose knowledge base is much more organic. It's just makes it a lot more engaging. I think yeah, there's much more depth to it because there's like anecdotal evidence as well as like academic research. And yeah. Yeah, I find that like really fascinating and I remember it like thinking that I really want to learn more about the and University when I was reading through I'm a Dabber he's booked. Look, but I just want to ask like why? Conflict why like politics of conflict? Why was that something? What was your original course and my undergrad in Trinity was sociology and social policy, which is actual staff fantastic course, like it's really really interesting and it's very broad, but in final year in the in fourth year of Sociology social policy, you have the option to take conflict studies module. Okay, which is definitely more like sociology rather than politics. It's but was fascinating. So it's done through the module is done by case study. So one semester well from my year. The our first semester was learning about kind of conflict and all the things within it in the context of Northern Ireland. And then the second semester was about the israeli-palestinian conflict. So you get a really really good overview of both of those conflicts and a Like critical knowledge, but you also understand a lot about like how conflict operates where the money goes and why it happens why it's difficult to solve as peace processes women in part in Conflict armies militaries. It's really interesting and I was just fascinated by that especially because I had I had kind of close family ties to the conflict in Northern Ireland from quite complex. In a kind of family like a complex kind of perspective. Okay, and I just was really interested in it. I ended up doing my I need to do my undergrad thesis on conflict tourism and Belfast. Okay, if you can hear my tummy rumbling on that end. Anyway, yeah, I'm conflict tourism in Belfast and by going up there and actually like having the chance to sit down with people in West Belfast and chat to them. About what did they think about tourists coming in to look at the murals? And it was just fascinating and for me it really inspired desire to learn more about why conflict happens and how we can end it, you know, and the right way to end a conflict because I there was a really interesting exhibition in a man maybe last year and a guy came in and I was chatting to him in the exhibition. and I used to work there and he was chatting to me and he said, you know war never stops just moves around and as I thought it's just so true, you know so fast and I was like, why is that the way why is there always conflict happening somewhere and I just wanted to know why Ryan wanted my at my questions answered and I feel like they've got answered that so us that is absolutely fascinating but like that quote because obviously that's something everyone knows it's not like you're telling someone Something they don't already know what like it. Is it like a human condition or is it, you know, I know not after that open. Yeah. It just really does it. I mean, obviously I like you said I knew that yeah hearing it. Yeah. Someone say yes. I was like, wow, well, man. I hope I get my Master's. So what was it like studying politics? Or a politics of conflict at this when there's so much conflict. Yeah this at this period in time where we're at right now. Mmm, it would like to have a glass of wine, but it was definitely incredibly interesting. It's very fascinating to be studying something. That's so current. I don't think there are that many fields in which when you're actually studying its what is happening day by day by day you're coming into class and Someone gives a presentation and that presentation is on something that happened a week ago, but you're using academic resources from 40 years ago to explain it. You know that for me was like crazy and really interesting but it definitely was because we had to engage and obviously I'm very privileged to be able to say this having like not experienced conflict in this in a way that many people all over the world. Unfortunately have but waking up every morning and going in for an early-morning lecture and kind of spending The day going through what are really dark harrowing tricky topics while I really enjoyed that and felt like it was really important that people do engage with this kind of thing it because it does definitely take a toll on like the psyche very hard to keep a very positive outlook about the world. I think what studying politics does this makes you a real? Cynic I can imagine. Yeah, and I definitely am a cynic. I've tried to soften my cynicism a bit, but I can't help but boy you Of the backing of knowledge behind you and like there's not you can't really argue with ya on that. So it was tough. I'd say it was tough. It was difficult year. The Masters was definitely difficult year, but so worthwhile and I think now it actually even though I mean for the last three or four months definitely not in the last two weeks. I feel like I've finally yeah overcome the kind of bird and I had felt for the last two or three months of Just actually not being able to read the news. I unsubscribe from like my New York's time email and like some other things and I was like, I can't read this just so much awful stuff is happening all the time, and I'm kind of predisposed to caring about it. That's just how my brain when I that's why you started it. Hmm, but I'm kind of past that now yeah because you put up I remember get a grip on know like I can imagine it's like extremely fatiguing it is fatiguing and tiresome. I think some especially like when we live in a digital world, One thing like do it like living in a time where it's happening. I'm here like you're reading it in the paper. Like you can take a break for it without for you. Like you're probably like your friends while typing you what you think on this and then you go and check on them because you care and you follow certain pages. That's all that's coming on. Yeah. It's and then you go into college and it's like where's the brake? Where's the brake? That's kind of it, you know. Yeah. I mean if you were studying I'm trying to think of like things you say I don't happen in the real world. I'm around until science. But if you're studying something where when you go home and you're reading the news, it's somewhat of a break. Yeah from like what you're learning nine to five. But this was just like nine to five you're learning it. Then you have to go home and see it all again on the news and I think with this like with the digital in the digital era, we really are just consistently fed information like a hundred miles an hour all the time, unfortunately all the time. More often than not thighs news and it's bad news. Yeah, I'd love that good news. Yeah every now and then some good news will be nice, but it's always bad. Yeah, you have to like kind of take like for want of a better word like kind of a digital detox. I remember you putting up thing being like sorry for the moment. I'm not going to share these things just because like I need yeah, I need a little bit of space. I needed a bit of space. I finished my exams and everything and I was like, okay. This is my opportunity to disengage. While I actually have the opportunity to do that again a very privileged thing to be able to disengage from the horrible things happening in the world and just because my mind thinks so critically about everything all the time to just take a break from that and to spend time working on creative things and like hang out with my friends and sleeping and then come back to it. Yeah when I have time, yeah, yeah to think about it the right way and give everything to do time. It deserves. Yeah. I completely understand that. So we were talking. Right before we came on like you were saying, you know where you want to be in eight years time. I love that. You said a so so Lux. Yes, I do this I think to yeah, I'm like 30 31. I'm it's a toy like a particular number. I cannot wait to be in my 30s. I'm like, so excited to do this to save this is like, yeah. Well, that's another topic. I've so much to say on that. But yeah, you're saying like you want where you explain it back to me because again I couldn't really yet. So So I have kind of like looked at my life for the next 10 years and I'm like I know where I want to be but I'm think I'm quite a rash it like a rational thinker. So I'm like, I know that there's no way I'm gonna be there tomorrow. Yeah some like for the next seven or eight years. It's more about kind of like exploring different jobs and developing particular skills that I need to get there. So in eight years what I'd really like to be kind of a cheers, it's actually kind of isn't funny like landmark. It's like in eight years. I will be here. This is what I mean. My number one in eight years are probably going to be still in the same apartment in London like struggling, but you know, I think I'm lucky because I have a lot of like a friends that are older than me who I can really look look too but what I need to constantly remind myself as that, I'm younger than them and I'm not supposed to be as established and we're like as they are. I know that there's something in me. I have friends who have been in say like something that I want to do or like even a small segment of something I want to do and they've been doing it for like Six years and then I'm like, how did you do this and they're like because I've been doing this Raiders and I'm like me and being like like slow down and stop stressing because like you've literally just started the yeah, we all want to be like we all want to fast-forward. Yeah, I think everybody has this thing they want to be like established and like finalize their career trajectories by the time they're 25, that's just not realistic. It's not realistic. But yeah in by the end. In about 10 years like the time I'm 30. I want to be like working in cultural branding. Okay. I'm which for me is I've always wanted to make a difference with what I do, but it's like finding at finding the right way. We're not only would I feel like I was really making a difference, but I'd also feel like I was fulfilled and I was making an active difference that I could see happening. And and I wanted to go into development studies for a long time. I really felt like that's where I was going to end up for it since I was 18. I was like I want to go and work in developing countries and be on the ground and I tried it out. I lived in Nepal for a while and I worked with some with a women's empowerment program there which I was very involved in but through doing that kind of learned that there are a lot of things in the development industry that I don't really agree with it's very bureaucratic. There's a lot of red tape. And it also I think stifled any sort of opportunity I had for creativity which is a very important part of my life music has always been very present and events. And that kind of industry has been present in my life my whole since I was a child and I didn't really want to turn my back on that felt like I was being torn two ways. Yeah, then I went to a conference in Dublin like 2 years ago. I can't for the life of me. Remember the name of it now, but it was just completely changed my outlook on what I wanted to do. I went to see a talk by this woman called a lefort our who since has become someone who I actually really look up to in the industry. She's so interesting and she introduced to me for the first time the eat. This is the idea of cultural branding. She runs an Instagram page called brand activism. And I was like, what is this? Yeah that this stage. This was like two two and a half years. Go and I was like capitalism is the devil. I never want to work in a couple of brand know. How am I gonna ever make any money? Yeah. I am and I've had to kind of reconcile my hatred of yeah capital S corporation. A lot of people will relate to that because obviously it's a lot of people like our general age listening to this and like that's unlike a message that I got a lot that like, oh, I feel so bad because I like working Betty's and be like, oh my God, you're gonna make money doing this. Yeah. Stop blaming yourself for this. Yeah, and I just think that instead of constantly capitalism is not going to fall in our lifetime. It's just not it's so deeply embedded and how the whole world works. So even the way we fight against capitalism is like a capitalist. It's a teacher instead of fighting against it. We need to try and think about how we can Hollow it out and make it better from the inside out but brands also have so much money and they have so much power and influence over how we think about things and if a brand gets on board With a really sensitive topic, they can make a hugely positive change. Maybe not for the right internal reasons, but at the end of the day, does that really matter if they're making a change if they're making a positive difference? That's a really interesting question. And that's a debate that that's a debate that I really had to have with myself. You know. Can I kind of let go of the what I don't like about you're not in it for the right reason like one Beyonce got on. Sorry talk about feminism. ISM everyone's like she's just jumping on the bandwagon. But like is that a bad thing? That's oh my God. It's like with obviously this is like a microcosm but like sustainable fashion people like going on to like like no tea no shade, but I say like someone who was like an influencer and makes money off like social media being like this is just for people's people are just doing this for their own image and stuff like that and it's like well if they're making better choices, like ethically than I don't really see my God I think yes from my perspective. Anyway, hmm, and for me, you know, not everybody is just this like wholesome, you know, perfect benevolent actor people very often need to kind of feel like they're getting something out of caring about an issue. Yeah, or like they have something to gain and that's just how people work and I found that you know with development. I wasn't really getting anywhere, you know, even if I was to go and work with an NGO that I felt really passionate passionately about what As I going to have any opportunity to help the big like try and solve the bigger issue, you know, maybe I'd make a difference in someone's life. But I felt like I was never going to have any opportunity to change some of the structural problems that cause people to have to live in poverty or that cause people to have to migrate and what is the thing? That's so interesting what you're saying. I'm just going to try and stop the recording here and keep going guys because this is actually the perfect timing for my camera runs. I will be back. Yeah. I felt like I want I didn't really have the opportunity to like change any of the bigger problems. And when I heard about this like culture branding thing my God didn't like found out the statistics and the research that said that you know brands are going to be in the top five Global actors who are able to bring about positive social change. I was like wow isn't that much because I would just never would have ever seen myself wanting to work for a brand or a big company. And yeah, I mean I mean one of the big issues that I notice in development was like the reason nothing was really changing was because nobody knew about it. Like I could be, you know, I wouldn't India for the rest of my life working on a project and nobody's going to know yeah, he's going to even know about it, you know, and I was like this is why doesn't anyone know about these horrible things that are happening in the world and it really bothers me that people just don't know and it's not that they don't want to know it's just that the information is not there if it's not happening on our doorstep. We don't know about it. You know I am I'm like that's a massive like knowledge Gap people and I was I what can I do to try and solve that like to try and get the message out there that these things are happening and people should care about them. And for me culture branding is like the right way to do that because if you have a brand that people think is cool or trendy and that brand takes a really strong stance on something but not only takes a stance backs It Up by actively trying to help that problem by in like investing money. Me in local communities are working with Community workers and Grassroots organizations to solve the problems and more to help relieve some of the burden of the issues that it could be really powerful. And obviously I think a lot of people would prefer to buy from a brand that is really making an effort to change something not just to share the message but to actually change it you'd be more inclined to buy from them and that market research is starting to be done and I think brands are He's starting to realize that finally you're starting to see more diverse kind of advertising companies making these ads and culture branding has a lot to do with that. It's telling the brands that you know, if you want to have a successful campaign that you know gets through to people and is maybe about an issue say like that Pepsi campaign with Kendall Jenner that fell flat that could have been so easily avoided by having the right team putting it together, you know with people who know what they're talking about when it comes to those issues the right knowledge the right producers the right actors who would what have been able to veto the horrible decisions they made in that ad and then it could have been so powerful. I mean Gillette have made some fantastic stuff recently around their razors, which have just been so well-researched, you know, and it really had the right people behind them and you can tell because the ads are great dad really testing one recently their kind of Catch Phrase was you can you know, no matter when or your first shave is the first one's always really important and it was like an interview with at Ron's sewing and his dad and what it was like for his dad and the son to enjoy their first shave together when it was never something that either of them had ever thought would happen, you know, and like that was just really a quite a powerful campaign and they had another one previously about toxic masculinity and they did really well with those and that is what culture branding is. So yeah, that's kind of what I'd like to be doing. I find this so fascinating because I've actually never heard this term before like it. Is it a is it a new thing to think that they wouldn't just have Like a marketing team they'd also have like researchers and research being done. Mmm. Okay, so like I think and there are agencies a specific research agencies that do all this research research and sell it to Brands and that research is cultural research. It's about Trends. It's about people's political ideas. It's about you know, their buying habits and what who they hang out with what they drink what people's you know, nightlife. Mm2 Trends are like it's really diverse research. But the brands are using that to come up with strategies, obviously that work for them and will so ever they want but in doing that they actually can have a huge impact but it is quite a new burgeoning industry which is why there's no way I could get a job in it tomorrow, you know. Yeah, but in like 10 years I can see it being really quite established. Yeah, and I feel like that's such a big thing with like our I don't like our generation but kind of like the digital generation if that makes sense that we were those jobs that you know will exist in like a few years time or that are so new that it's hard to find information on but you don't know how to get there. You're like you're standing here and it's way over there. I know what I want to do. Anyway, I'm like, I don't know this the exact steps how to get there. But I know where I want to be. Yeah, is that something you struggle with? That's like sometimes frustrating you or I would say that it doesn't first frustrate me and I'm safe. I could like give someone advice who was like thinking this is what I want to be doing, but I don't know how to get there. It's think about what skills you would need to do that. So I know that there are only going to need marketing skills, which I don't have I don't have any marketing knowledge because I didn't I didn't do it in college. I there are also some other things I my organizational skills could probably be improved and you know, my networking skills all these kind of things and like those are skills that I'm going to need in eight or nine years when I eventually I maybe we'll be lucky. Enough to be doing what I want to do. So I'm like where can I gain those experiences? No, you know, when where what can I be doing for the next 12 or 12 months or two years that will allow me to develop some of those skills that I can then use later on rather than trying to run headfirst into the career. It's like right where can I get my marketing research like where can I get that experience in the next two years and kind of taking a job that I'm kind of interested in but that's not my Passion, you know, I don't I really don't mind doing that for a few years as long as it pays the bills. I can pay my rent. I can still go out and have to crack up my friends and at the same time I'm like I'm getting this really valuable marketing experience that I'm going to use later down the line. So I'm like taking this time to plan for the next like four next like we're however many years. I'm just going to try and like take slow steps up the ladder until I get to where I want to be and I know that that's all going to be valuable. Yeah, just be positive about it. Yeah. No. Cuz I definitely find myself. Anyway, I don't know if you're the same as that. Like I look at people who have been doing something say like presenting or something like that for years or journalism for years, and I'm like, how did you do that? Unlike say Tara sewers like she's always like Molly calm down calm down. Like she's someone I look up to so much. She's been going at this for so long and I'm like Tara. How did you get this and she's like, I've been working for like years and years and years and like Worked my ass off like oh, yeah. Sorry. Sorry. I'm looking forward to that. Yeah, you know, I'm excited to do that and like see what happens over the next number of years and see where I end up but I'm you know willing to do anything. Yeah. I've already done quite a mix of things. Yeah, and I'm kind of whatever life throws at me. I'll try and take it. Yeah and just make like try and turn it into something that I can use later on. Yeah, that's why I find really exciting about like as much as the time we live in Right. Now I was kind of mad. Obviously we're very privileged and like I feel like you and me are taking the same kind of like I don't want to say road because it's like the not the road. We're just like seeing what happens see what life throws at us and just going along with it, which I think is like actually quite unusual for a Dublin. Anyway people seem to structure their lives, like like they're writing an essay. Sorry funny tweet the other day and it was what did it say? Well took summer Thailand. No. J1 somewhere Thailand somewhere at PWC internship home, right then you die. I will decide interrailing Tyler. Are you drinking when I forgot? Yeah, interrailing Thailand and J1 and internship PWC or I never heard of that phrase the big four which I actually want to like if it was written if it was like a palpable thing actually was about to say something really bad. Like I actually want to raise it from the language of ever. Looks like I hear people be like, oh And then she got into the big four. I'm like, oh, can you actually give me an actual right? But there's nothing wrong with that if you want to know nothing about what I would know not because of that because of the pressure people put on them. Sometimes you wish for for companies. Yeah for companies and people are like, oh people are worried about that that Earthly Paradise native KPMG that people just can't see if you were worried if I thought he's like, don't be that's how I mean that's our opportunity. Yeah out there and you know, Just can't see it. When you live in Dublin. Yeah, unless you're a tech genius. I can you work for a tech company. There's so much more opportunity outside of the city walls that spoke about moving to London on that now and that nose. So what was when you applied for a masses was it important that it was elsewhere or did you not mind? It definitely was a my did I what I didn't even consider looking to Ireland originally. I was maybe going to go to Germany or the Netherlands we're doing a master's is Is like cheap as chips and they have a lot of incredible english-language Masters particularly in Humanities and politics. The Netherlands is like just ahead of its game in everything when it comes to like social things. I mean, they've empty prisons all over the Netherlands because they're like prison Rehabilitation programs are so good that once people are actually finish their sentences. They don't like recommit crimes. They actually end up reintegrating into society. They're just very interesting country. But I'm I was kind of looking towards the Netherlands really like maybe going to check for something to do. There's a great conflict and studies Masters and Utrecht to but once I went to an open day and so us I was like, this is the place for me. Yeah, and it's just on Parallel out. But yeah getting out of Ireland was really important for me really important. I think my last year that I had in Dublin the last year of my degree really would like I struggled with my mental health my whole way through University. But it really kind of intensified in my final year and I just emotionally socially academically had a very tough year with it even during that year. However, I made some of the best friends ever like the best friends I ever made shout out to Darwin who will listen to this. Who's my best friend who's in Australia. But yeah, I really just made some fantastic friends and Then kind of got my masters in just went I just left and never look back. Now. I would like to come back to Ireland eventually and when the time is right, but I feel like there just is nothing here for me at the minute, which is sad. Yeah, and why you feel that way like I know why I would feel that way. But yeah, I feel like for creatives. I know if you're interested in not even just creatives but if you work in Humanities or development or anything like that, even a lot of like science based courses He studied that or if you didn't go to university, Ireland is like not very easy on you. Like it's a tough place to be I think we focus a lot on Academia and you have to be the best of the best to get the job even though there's only like ten jobs on offer, you know, so I think so many people are leaving because they have no room to grow they feel stifled and if they didn't have the opportunity to go to university or if University didn't work out for them companies are just not even interested in engaging with Them, you know and I didn't realize in what how much of a vacuum it is here when it comes to education here your useiess to someone you're doing a masters and it's like our kind of run-of-the-mill. Everyone does a master's when I moved to London and I was like art and doing a master's people to be like what? Yeah. Well, you're only 23 you're doing a master's I was like, yeah. Yeah, everybody kind of did that in my where you know my own daughter in my undergrad and so many people that I've met who are just really hard workers and really intelligent people who Go to university and it's me. It's underneath the culture hasn't been yeah evil to them when it comes to that. You know, people are so much more open to like giving those people an opportunity and allowed them to prove themselves, which I really like because then you guess what your makes, you know, I've such a nice mix of friends who were did have the opportunity to like enjoy Academia and other people who didn't and I feel like Ireland's just as a bit unforgiving Yeah, like just Even socially like I remember when I drop just because of obviously that they like background they come from when I dropped out of first year of college and people like it was like I people are you okay, like are you like are you? Okay? What what are you going to it was like I was dead like it was the end of the world was like that. I had there was no other options for me that it was like I couldn't even go back to college like it was like that. Honestly something absolutely true. Tragic and terrible that happened. Yeah, where is like from I was so happy the day I went in I was like sorry I can't do this anymore. And I was like a celebration for me but then I find it so weird that like as well every time I was trying someone I was like but this is my pan. This is a yes, sir. Have I got everything even still like everything I do because I feel like I don't have that backing behind me. I'm not saying I'm not like the most like so so privileged but like because I don't have the like University backing behind me in the kind. Of conversations I have with people on like the daily it I feel like I have to justify myself a lot more. Mmm here and I've never even had a conversation about University with my friends in London. I don't know if that's who I hang out with or yeah, but I definitely think that it is like that en masse, you know people just don't I think it's in a lofty to it's not a negative thing to Value education, but I think here it's like all people can see they can't see past it and that's not great. Either, you know and yeah, I just really there was no room for me to progress or learn anything new or to try new skills or anything and I had to go and it gave me honestly like a new lease on life. It's really really great. And when I come back don't know it's a bit strange because I really only have a handful of people that I left in the city. So many people are gone. Yeah, either to Australia or to the state quite a lot of people in London actually, which was nice when I went over it. Least I had a little Irish network, but everyone's gone. Yeah, everyone's gone and it's mad because I do hear a lot of people complaining about people leaving. Hmm. And I do think that is an awkward stance for me to like comprehend because it's like people for instance if you're a DJ if you move to Berlin you may be able to make a living and then like practice your piano after showing better. Whereas like here you may not be able to do that. Yeah, and that's why people are going like if You had to work two jobs to pay stifling rent apps and then also practice your craft or art. It's obviously going to take you longer no matter how talented you are and maybe if you move elsewhere with any industry that can actually pay you properly. You should have it. You shouldn't have to break your back, you know working in a coffee shop at five o'clock every morning to fund your music career or to fund, you know, your arts career or whatever you want to do that shouldn't be how it is. And that is how it is in Dublin. Or maybe you have to work into cafes to pay your goddamn rent. Well, that is just not really what it's like yet still you have to grind in other places and you really have to put the work in but it's just not the same you don't feel as negatively about putting the work in because you feel like you're getting a bit back. Mmm. And I mean I'm very involved in music like most of my friends in London. I will be kind of would be very involved in maybe Rick radio or music and a lot of people are DJs and producers and that's how they make their money. Me, you know, they don't happen to do crazy Cafe jobs or service industry jobs just so that they can do what they love, you know, they have the opportunity to do what they really like. Yeah, which is great and it's lovely to see, you know, I just love to see other people succeed in and it's great and London is really nice and it we spoke about this briefly but before this, but about how I think not everyone not going to paint everybody with the same brush, but Irish people have Have trouble with like supporting each other and lifting each other up. I absolutely when people are starting out. Yeah, and it's like there's no space to grow your either so successful and everyone's like, oh my God, you're amazing like yeah. Can I get tickets to this and whatever or it's like? Oh my God, that's so embarrassing. Why did yes put up a track or whatever like that and really is that kind of a kind of a culture and that beat that just is very difficult to I found out very To live in on something making music is something that I really wanted to do for a long time. I just didn't feel like I had the space to do it here and when I moved I had people around me who are actively encouraging me to do it. You know, I'd maybe mention it and after about five months being in London. I was like to up I'm going to give this a go. Somebody showed me how to download Ableton onto my laptop and Todd showed me where to get it from. I had people kind of guide me a little bit and give me really good feedback and maybe Be what I was doing or even being able to ask questions. Yeah, I feel like sometimes for me personally. It's a if I know someone's really good at something. I don't want to seem like stupid or that I shouldn't be given maybe it slightly impostor syndrome or whatever but I shouldn't be given certain things if I send it to them ask them. How like, how do you edit or whatever like, I don't feel like I can ask those questions. It's an Irish thing. I think also Irish it all stems from embarrassment and Nice t-shirt era before and I think because obviously in London there's healthy competition wherever you go and people are kind of look look we all have to do this grind together. So we're in it together. Let's help each other out in Ireland. I feel like because there's so little opportunity. It's really like, you know a race to the finish line and your car websites. Yeah, whoever like Battle of the fittest or whatever and people just struggle to lift each other up. It's not like obviously everyone's not like that but there definitely is a culture like that that does exist in our it's not even like I can't even think of like particular individuals. It's just like the larger atmosphere of like the country. Yeah. He's like, oh, she's like Notions. Yeah have any idea of Notions that people are sick or Notions. Yeah. I said Notions. Yeah. I was trying something new exactly. No, like I dread to think the amount of WhatsApp groups. I've been like sent into and just like the straw but like Same time a great that should be going to slow emigrate and leave all your all your WhatsApp groups. That's what I did. I'm great and leave all your group shots. That's the only way to succeed in life. It's actually gas. So like I love talking about this because it kind of makes you feel not alone. I've talked about this with like so many different people on and off the podcast but like it's weird. I think there is starting to be like a community fostered within the like creative. T but like what I like have learned is that like say with podcast like if someone started nothing like the every podcast is so different because it depends on who's like I'm seeing it same with music or whatever but like I say if someone next door to me and who I felt was very similar to me or something like started a podcast tomorrow. I'll be like thank God because I just create a like a bigger Community there for like more Norm opportunities for like oh Puck podcast is big now. We're like walking. You this from like companies or whatever like I just feel like like for instance depop my sponsor like they when they when they sponsored another podcast in America. They looked to London to to sponsor some podcasts. I just happen to email them the day they did it - and then they like like they've sponsored the most random podcast and Dublin she got me like enough because yeah of podcast in America and I did it has that kind of normalizing effect when or people try and do things. Yeah. I just wish that young people in Dublin and in Ireland felt like they had the opportunity to do that. I felt like they had the space or that it was like that what they were doing was Violet, you know, and that it's okay to not be perfect when you yeah start something. I think that's like amazing honestly if you just do it and don't look back. Yeah. Yeah. I'm honestly I have to when I think about this I just think of someone I feel really feel like I have to mention Rue who is an amazing DJ and she started DJing quite a while ago, but has really just improved so much more lately and has been incredible to like watch her grow as a musician and as an artist and she is someone who I really think just went for it, you know, even in a community in Dublin that so saturated by techno and House, and there's not a really a lot of space for anything else the crowd like a club comfort really are doing something and Dublin, they just went out on a limb and they did it and it worked you know, and for me whenever I think about my not being able to do something when I lived here. They are such an inspiration like the whole crew of them and you know, Jack and key and who are also involved in took home first really just like poster children for just trying something new and Dublin on and Not letting how you feel your friends or the people around you might react to you doing something a bit out there. Yeah, it is not that like land for a long time. I base my decisions on like probably two things. I wanted to be hot and I want to be socially acceptable literally I'm run down and that's so embarrassing to say but like literally I'd it's taken me like years of unlearning like being like valued in that way like yeah that like I was actually not doing what I wanted to do in life like my career what I was gonna do for like the majority of my life on what others thought of me and like I know that's such a basic thought but like that actually mad unless you believe in heaven or reincarnation that like yeah one life is spent doing what you don't want to do because we live in like maybe a smaller Community but like I think I do feel like it is changing and I've heard a lot of We'll say like I feel more comfortable moving back to Dublin. Now. I feel like there's a different atmosphere and I actually really do feel that way. I just like it will take a lot of unlearning be nice to hear inside of us. It is. It was probably guilty we could have read that way like our whole lives just like the Irish psyche as a nation as like, we're not good enough. Yeah, we do World saying, I know you were like, I don't know how it got into the college over and I was like it because it's like I understand but that's I'm like, yeah, we have this little thing that I do but Why don't I it's actually really not big and it's actually terrible. So like whatever, you know and know something, you know, I think my values have changed a lot from what they used to be when I was younger to try and fit in or whatever to know being like really appreciating the people around me who work hard who do what it is that they care and love what would they care about and what they love and definitely those are the kind of people now that I have around me. Yeah. Well who inspire me people who encouraged me people who do their own paying on? To really accept and support me for who I am and we support what I'm doing, you know and I was lucky to find those people in Dublin before I left and then find them again in London when I moved there and I think that's like a slow Ripple. I think people are starting to come around to having that kind of Outlook rather than always fighting against each other and actually like really support each other in Dublin. I think it slowly slowly slowly. We're going to get there. Okay eventually. Yeah, I think that's a good note to leave it on. Okay. Hey guys, it's that laptop. Beer. Take away your three. And one for today is like someone's starting out support them. Tell your friends you love them and value those right because it actually makes such a huge difference to your life. I'm sure like all of you know that already but like if I feel like in the past year, I've actually like even though it's something you hear so much. I've actually like take that in and I had to fight against like what I've learned my whole life and actually do that for other people and like for myself as well because you like this endless benefits. It's to supporting others and like so many love love it comes back to you. It really caught. It really does come back to you and you people are afraid that if they give it out. It's not gonna come back it does. Yeah, it'll come back in the most unexpected places. So thank you and also thank you to depop because speaking of being full of love like all the friends that I'm talking about. Now. Most of them are from Deep up and from my little depop community. So thank you depop responsibly by podcast because most of all you've introduced me to the people who are actually Writing and sharing my mother, so and thank you so much for coming out no problem and for doing this podcast, so randomly last minute and not a lot of people would so, thank you, and I can't wait to see what you do in life, and I'll obviously tag see Russian all of this podcast promotion because you're a really good source for sources for valuable information on I hope I live up to that world. No, no well, so, thank you guys. Goodbye.
Saoirse is a recent graduate, finishing up a masters in the Politics of Conflict, Rights and Justice in SOAS, London, where she is based. Originally from Carlow, Saoirse grew up around music. She is a trained musician and has worked in events for years, but found a passion for activism and political thinking at university. She is currently on a mission to figure out how she can blend these two very different parts of her life - to continue her work in the creative industries while trying to make a difference. I came across Saoirse's page when I was trying to find reliable information on the Sudan Uprising and ever since have been fascinated by the information and recourses she shares both in conversation and on her instagram @saysxa . Upon meeting Saoirse for this podcast she shared with me where she saw her future (I really bring up the most intense conversations) and she told me about something I had never heard of before... "Cultural Branding". This is a new area of work, which you'll find out more about in this podcast, that Saoirse believes she can make the most difference. This podcast is brilliant for understanding the significant role brands will play in future global research, and how it could help particular causes. Thank you to Depop for facilitating brilliant conversations and encouraging young people to ask questions. My depop shop of the week is @larri_d for stunning hand picked second hand clothing of all sorts. She has an amazing eye and I've been using her page lately for styling inspiration. 