You know, man, it could be worse woman could cut off your penis way sleeping toss it out the window of a moving car that's always dies. I don't know. It's just you by yourself got that so problem and it was very decent a wardrobe that was getting very respectable folks. To being complete shit man. No, it's all gone gone his comfort blanket just a blanket. Why don't guys like you and I know what it to fate is just this essential to our survival in the hunter-gatherer sense of the word know what our with consumers your consumers your byproducts of Lifestyle Obsession murder crime poverty these things don't concern them. What concerns me a celebrity magazines television with 500 channels. Some guy's name on my underwear Rogaine Viagra olestra Martha Stewart. Fuck Martha Stewart Arthur's polishing the brass on the Titanic. It's all going down man. Fuck off with your Sophie units and string green striped patterns. I say never be complete. I so stopping perfect. I say look that's involved. Let the chips fall where they may that's me. I could be wrong and do terrible tragedy. This is just stuff. I did lose a lot of versatile solution for modern living fuck. You're right intransitive. What things you own end up owning you do what you like? This is the lightning junkies podcast with your host jazz trumpet lesson on this 21st episode of the podcast. We have 21 is enough. He is building the open source project for a lightning ATM and this episode we go through the Journey of a lightning ATM and we also Explore the personal philosophy of 21 and how it's related to his being a digital Nomad. I really enjoyed recording this podcast because it kind of serves as a precursor to My Philosophy psychedelics religion Etc podcast that I'm going to be launching soon. In fact, I'm ready to announce that I'm going to be launching it in February again with the tentative title. What is real patient zero is going to be someone with in Bitcoin and lightning that has some very interesting views that he would like to share. I'm pretty sure this is going to be a very weird episode with a second episode being related to psychedelics. And again heading it being someone from within the Bitcoin Community quote-unquote. Eventually. I do hope to get interviews with people outside of Bitcoin crypto and you know this entire a little bubble that we live in the future goal of which would be to create content on Evening junkies that would appeal to new be users and advertise that content on the what is real podcast. This would also work in Reverse as well since I would obviously advertise my other what is real podcast here on Lightning junkies just so you listeners out there can get a deeper understanding of the things that I'm curious about now and into the future you might be wondering why I had that fight club. Clip at the very beginning of the episode. I happened to find it relevant to the subject matter that 21 and I happen to get into speaking of which let's go ahead and jump into this episode. I've talked along and I would like to go ahead and welcome 21 is enough to the lightning junkies podcast. How are you doing today? 21. Hello. Thanks. I'm great. Had a good Yes, I'm all well, perfect. Well at the very beginning of the these podcasts I like to just get a general background of my guest. So this usually involves. What did you do before you got into Bitcoin? And before you got into lightning sure here, I was interested or got into Bitcoin or actually didn't get into Bitcoin first. I got into those coin really that's where it all started for me in 2013 or early 2014 where I discovered this Dogecoin thing. NG and realized or read online that you could make money online by my is such a thing called mining. Yeah, that was really how I got started with with Dogecoin and started to build my own little mining rig with gpus also bought one of those USB butterfly miners at the time. So like a little minor you that you could put on your desk and mine some Bitcoin. Yeah, that was my start and for the following years. It was sort of an on-and-off thing. So I found back to it. I was interested again for a couple of months and then I left it aside and didn't really pay attention too much and it was really around 2016 17 when I finally caught on again and ever since then interested in Bitcoin and followed what's happening around lightning nowadays. It's an everyday topic for me. It does not go away Day by without Bitcoin these days got it. So yeah, you're the second person on the podcast so far that is told me that they've gotten their Are start with Dogecoin? Okay, and I find this interesting because I see a lot of relation to the lightning Network and kind of the mentality behind tipping and things like that that were very popular and the Doge Community back in the day. Would you say a lot of that Community is what got you interested in Dogecoin at the very beginning or is it mainly just to just to make money off of dish that is studies an interesting observation. I do think what really got me interested. That was definitely that money. Part, I was kind of doing my calculations. How much could I do what gpus would I need to buy there were those Google sheets online where you could look up which gpus would give the best returns at what temperature is could do could you run them if you eventually want it to resell I knew I had to run it at 90 something degrees and it was still like I ran them maybe for about half a year eight months or so and I could still sell them and they wouldn't still be damaged during the time. So it was definitely this sort of Of economic aspect of how could I run? My Hardware as economically as possible while still being able to resell them after and then the community part was more it was exciting to me to see all this happiness like those coin is such with such a happy thing for me being on Reddit reading other people's post all these moon on all the meaning like the memeing was super super strong with though coach coin in 2014 a lot of a lot of happy people enjoying memes. Those doggies around she bees I think was one of the tombs that was used on Reddit and the Tipping definitely with an interesting thing. But at the time I didn't realize that this is a payment rail that this is a protocol. I did not have that understanding that I have today. I didn't think of it as a yeah, as I money really it was just fun. It was fun and game. She was playing around. It was sort of this magical internet money thing. That was just fun to send around it didn't really Occurred to me that this was a sort of mind-blowing thing that you could transfer low value over the internet and all the intricacies and the details of it. I wouldn't understand. I was just it was I was part of the funny play around community of those Dogecoin. Did you think that particular Community is something that was valuable that no longer exist anymore that I don't know. I haven't really been on our Dogecoin for a long time and I didn't really engage with The community anymore when I got rid of my head I see so I had a like a couple hundred thousand those coins at some point ever since I sold them transferred it into Bitcoin. I did not engage with the community anymore. I do think that is that was a very important part to me and if it does not exist anymore. Yeah, it's hot fun probably. So you're saying that later on you ended up getting into Bitcoin. Was there anything specifically that triggered that changeover? I think that the more technical I got with the whole topic the more I read about what is exactly going on the more I learned about its cryptography and it's all the technical aspects the more I realized I looked at that data and I was like surprised how much there was and how much Innovation there is all of a sudden realizing all these things were our sort of present in Dogecoin as well since that's just a fork of Bitcoin, but I never Knew about it and learning about it realizing how much there is to explore with just a mind-blowing thing to me. I went down this Rabbit Hole as people call it and explored various topics and was just super fascinated to learn all about its technicalities, but also about economics in general realized how little I knew about money all those topics that all of a sudden pop up when you dig a little deeper in and around Bitcoin. And it's just captured me here. I can't let it go anymore. It's just like every almost every day a new topic opens up in a new area to explore too many almost to trying to follow if you're trying to following what follow what's happening in Bitcoin on it on a protocol level. But then also layer 2 Solutions like lightning then today, I feel like this is almost a full-time shop. There's so many things that are new every other day, but it is nonetheless super In still to read to get some news and I try like these days. I'm building something right now. So I'm trying not to get too much distracted by news or by Twitter in particular. It's nonetheless what keeps me excited about Bitcoin. Absolutely. So when did you get interested in lightning? I was interested in lightning. I think it was definitely around the scaling debate in 2017. When yeah, the whole secwet debate all I mean for a lot of people this was about block size, but also definitely sacred was as technical or a little bit more technically inclined people know about the malleability fix that was implemented and made lightning possible or much easier much more secure. So that was around 2017 when when secwet got activated and then main Nets lightning early 2018. I started to Play around with with a note that I set up Island at the time. There was another couple months where I didn't pay too much attention early to mid 2018. I still like sometimes I have this feeling I'm playing around with lightning or a building on top of lightning. Now. I still want to learn a little more about the core protocol. I have a fairly good understanding but I'm still like working through Jimmy songs book chapter by chapter. What's it called programming Bitcoin? I think yeah. I was really to answer your Question in one sentence excited and interested from the very beginning talking more recently, you know back in October. I met you at the lightning conference and you were showing me your newer project. Do you want to let the listeners know about this particular project? Yeah. Absolutely. It was to me never really clear. What I wanted to do in Bitcoin. I was super excited. I read about Bitcoin every day. I research various topics was always a technical person. So I was always interested in technical. Full details but I never knew what I wanted to do to do. I want to like contribute to a certain project that is out there or which part of Bitcoin is really the one should I should I write some articles or I was I was I was unsure and then eventually at a Bitcoin conference in Amsterdam breaking Bitcoin last year came up with this idea of a Bitcoin ATM and since lightning was already a thing and I realized I could send around very low amounts of digital value. Why not have an ATM that accepts coins that accepts little coins like a guy to send your a coin and sent that to the user. That was that was what I thought about during that conference and I talked to a couple people as well when I got back. It just stuck with me. I was like, I did not know how I would go about it. I knew this ATM thing it's not about It I researched a little I didn't really know how I would build it. I didn't I did not have an idea how I would put this thing together. I knew a fair share of hacking with Raspberry Pi's and with other other single board computers, but I did not really know how I build such an ATM I had to research for example, how do I accept coins? Do I need to build my own little device sir? Is there something that I could just use off-the-shelf I Hardware component all the other Art's screens the Raspberry Pi itself. Is it going to be a Raspberry Pi would I need an another board? What about this coin acceptor and slowly I gather information found different products online found products that I could order from in China Fun products that I could order around Europe and at a certain point I had sort of a list of Hardware together with which I thought I could probably build something. I learned a fair share of or AFib. Python Programming in Justin moons little boot camp I was I think part of the second or third iteration and that I thought would probably also be a good language to do to build something like this ATM with and then I just sort of started. Yeah, but all this hardware and got it delivered was excited one piece after the other arrived and I slowly built built it up. I started setting up my Raspberry Pi putting some Linux Distribution on it started to play around with it just really simple things at the beginning connected eventually when I got and my display which is an e-ink display that I use for the ATM connected that to the Raspberry Pi and started displaying things on it pictures and animations. There's a lot of interesting things you can do with an e-ink display. And from there on I just gradually improved over time. I'm started to improve the added additional Hardware components. They button started to do certain things on a screen with a button and one after the other let's do this ATM the this lightning ATM that some have seen at conferences others may be on Twitter, which is a box that you can put on a table. It's as small almost as as a shoe box and throw a bunch of coins into it on the display. It will say how much in Euros and dollars in pounds. You can program that as to your liking show the amount of coins that you VIN. Inserted into the box at the same time show you how many satoshi's we will get for these for those coins? And then with the Press of with the push of a button you can initiate the payout process and on your mobile phone where you have your lightning Wallet create an invoice scan that with the camera that's part of the ATM and then the amount of satoshi's will be sent to your lightning wallet. That is Where the project is at this point and yeah, that's what I built over the last couple of months. Yeah. Absolutely. I use that at the lightning conference and it was pretty cool to see in real life. It was a pretty fast experience pretty kind of Illuminating on what you know, we might see in the the future of you know, lightning. Do you see the kind of long-term vision of this project being a more built up ATM because just for viewers listeners that may not know this Particular ATM at this stage is kind of more of a prototype. Would you agree with that? Yes. Yes. Definitely. I would agree with that assumption or dead assessment. I I do think there is definitely a market there is a huge Market I think but for now, I do believe I'm working on it wreck. Like now I've been on holidays and there was the new year is now start. I kind of started to slowly. And but now start again to work on the ATM and I will do that every every single day. My idea is definitely to get that project to a point where it is easy for people to just rebuild it like that is my first goal. I want this there is one or two other Bitcoin ATM projects out there like open source projects on GitHub where you can go and buy a bunch of hardware and use the software that provided but Both of them are deprecated or have not been maintained for a long time my vision for this lightning ATM. I would love to see this to be sort of the go-to solution for people who want to have their own little Bitcoin ATM. I do not at this point think too much about the commercial aspect or people companies who would want to buy that ATM in huge quantities for now. I think it should be a tinkerer project. I want to attract contributor. They already do have some pull requests. I have people that I'm in touch with right now who are building who are rebuilding what I've done and who want to help me in the future. So I would love for this project to become just a reliable stable ATM solution that people can rebuild for their Bitcoin meetups maybe for their families for whoever whomever they want to show how easy and simple Bitcoin can be with because I do think one of the interesting things about the about this lightning ATM is that it is a tangible way of introducing people to be coin. You've had those conversations right with friends and family and trying to explain them how it works and what it is and you talked about this digital money and you might be able to send it from one phone to the other. Yes, but at the end if you can actually turn money that you just hold in your hand a coin a physical coin. It into a box see something being displayed see an exchange rate realizing. Oh, okay. So this Bitcoin thing can be bad with Fiat money and then getting it sent straight to your phone. And the whole process takes like less than 40 seconds. This is something very powerful and I would love to see those ATMs being built around the globe in Bitcoin communities in bit for Bitcoin meetups in workshops. It would I think it's a great introduction into Bitcoin and into the lightning Network in particular. You know, what's say, A Meetup was to put together something like this. What skills would they need to in order to actually do that? And I think at this point I'm going to answer those questions to Y. So for now you gotta be really quite technical gotta have some Linux skills. You got a install or Flash and image you go to clone a GitHub repo and the hardware part is also a little tricky and difficult. I've been I mean touch now with about I would say a handful of people who are building the ATM and to those I sent pictures or explainer sent them like Raspberry Pi pinouts where you can see where do you need to connect? All the different cables? There is about I don't know like 20 plus cables that need to be connected between the display and the button and the camera the coin acceptor. There is a power sort of thing as well where the coin acceptor needs runs on 12 volt power and the Raspberry Pi runs on five volts. So that needs to be somehow I'm so and as well with with Hardware as well, you got to be quite technical at this point. It's not easy. There is a handful of people who are trying and who are building it. Now, I would also say that it will become dramatically easier over the course of the next couple months what my plan is really at the end to have a solution where a almost non-technical or maybe a little bit technical person can go basically by the hardware that is listed on my GitHub or by Take it even maybe at some point. There will be a kit available. But people can just buy the hardware parts and put it together fairly simple fairly easy with instructions online either maybe at some point. They will be a YouTube tutorial or for sure. I get books sort of instruction guide lines where they can follow one step after the other and get their ATM up and running. So I would say for now we got to still be quite technical. Now and in the future, I would say a person that can set up a like Raspberry Pi today a raspy Blitz something of that sort should also be able to assemble a lightning ATM when you were mining Dogecoin. Did you think that in a couple years that you would be creating your own lightning ATM? No, definitely not definitely not that out. That was far. No. No, I didn't think that far. Yeah. It was that was really short. Thinking that I had there but it is fun like thinking back to those times. It's an interesting path that I've been on but it's super exciting also like being around last year. I've been a bit too many conferences, but I started maybe around 2017 to also meet people like that was the first time ever that I met people in Bitcoin that were yeah like interested in the same things as I was or as I am with Dogecoin. I always only communicated over the Internet in Forums on Reddit and chats or things like that and now it becomes sort of real right when you meet people when you talk to people when you get to meet the people that you interact with on Twitter, it's mind-blowing what has happened over the course of the last five six years. I would definitely not have thought that it's going that direction back in 2013 14. Do you think you know, let's say in 2025 2026 you're going to be just as surprised by You are then from your current position. That is an interesting thought. Yeah, maybe maybe I am yes. You think I'd be building on aetherium something whole I would hope not but I mean, I'm I'm thinking that you know, we've gotten to such a you know, not odd path because I think a lot of people knew that lightning was coming in, you know, even in 2013 2014 2015. I definitely feel like things are going to get a lot weirder by you know, the mid-2020s here. We're going to have a a lot of interesting things being built on top of lightning. We're going to have other Layer Two Solutions are going to have a layer 3 Solutions, maybe even some weirdoes out there doing some kind of layer for stuff. I don't know. I find the fact that we're out here kind of with a niche of lightning flooring that you know, I have a lightning junkies podcast. You're working on a lightning ATM. Will there be even more niched up people in five years that are kind of working on a smaller part of this, you know, people may be working on watch. Powers or some other small portion of that Tiffany kind of thoughts on that like my life in general. I don't think too far into the future as just a like base concept the way I live like for example, I don't maybe that as a little side note. I don't really have a home. I don't I don't have a place that I would call home closest to home. Definitely my parents house or where my family leaves but I live wherever I just feel like living if been for the past six months I lived in Lisbon that was last year now at this point. I'm in Bulgaria for the next one and a half months and I often just see what's going on and decide more. I liked my life to be super flexible. So I always decide more or less on the go where I want to be into in 3 weeks. Sometimes I know for the next two months sometimes, I don't know. What's where I'm going to be next Monday? So in general, I don't really think too much about the distant future and also having been now in Bitcoin for the past 3 years more or less every single day. So many things have happened now looking back only in those three years that I find it hard to predict or to think about. What is going to be in three years III mean I do agree with you that there will be a lot a lot of soup. / interesting things. I've just been by the end of last year. I've been at the CCC the chaos computer Congress in Leipzig where a lot of bitcoiners were as well and I'm mentioning this because Peter Wooly Willy was there too for the whole day for all the days and Max Hildebrand and a bunch of other bitcoiners. They were super interesting conversation super interesting talks. We had a an introduction into Taproot. I'm absolutely excited about all the developments all the Potential changes about the Privacy aspects that might soon be up for debate and also there is probably going to be proposals that we need to vote on with our notes. I do believe that it is going to be exciting but I almost feel I don't really want to make too many predictions or think too much about where it's going to lead and where it's going to take us. I really like to take it month after month and just be surprised again in a couple years where I ended up here. I think that's a really good philosophy and way to think about it, but would you call yourself a digital Nomad and that way yes in a way that's that's a term that people offer use for people like me. I have not I've used a term to tell when people are when I realized when I tell people what I do and I see that they're sort of like don't really get what I'm doing. I mentioned this tournament. So yeah, they to Nomads that have you heard of that and then most of the time people realize. Oh, okay. Yes that that I heard of I In general like labels that much I'm like, it could easily be that in like in half a year. I'd be staying in a place and I don't know fall in laughs and stay there for the rest of my life. I'm open to that. I'm not a person that is forcefully trying to travel as much and as often as he can, but I definitely live at this point a life of of a digital Nomad idea I go from one place to the other and enjoy. The things that are around me right now in Bulgaria, it's a beautiful place to go skiing. So that's what I do here for the next one and a half months. I mean not every single day that you can't do that, but go skiing one day work on the ATM the other day and in one and a half months, I tear down my tents here. So to speak and travel on to other places in between. I'll be in London real quick early February. I'll be at advancing Bitcoin. Then there will be a meet up in Sofia the capital of Bulgaria where I'm also going to talk about the lightning ATM and then go back to this place where I'm staying right now for the rest of February then I'll be in Gran Canaria for a little while. There is going to be Bitcoin 2020 in San Francisco that I'll be at and there is a couple of other events that are already outlined. There is a couple of interesting events in around April this year lightning. The lightning hack days will be in Barcelona. So those I kind of plan my life around those events at this point. And yeah, as I said, I don't really know where I'm going to stay early March, but I'll sort it out as I go. Do you find that there's a lot of freedom not being bound to any one location. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, there is maybe that's what also what makes me a Bitcoin. I write this feeling of freedom is maybe one The most important things that's dear to me. There is I'd also as a professional I'm a data center engineer. So I work as a contractor some months of the year. I work for a company or for different companies and do I work on data center project? So that means building it in a Data Center and helping to build out the rooms putting racks put in power fiber cables. Copper cables all these sorts of things and that sometimes like this year. I don't have any project scheduled or I do not plan to as of now work on any project last year. I've done that for about three three or four months and this sort of keeps me going like this helps to pay the bills and whatever I work on a project like this. I'm going into this normal setting where people are normally in a job and a 9 to 5 job and I feel A couple of weeks or months. I feel a little there is this tension that builds up. I'm my freedom is definitely worth a lot to me and whenever I can I try to be as free as I possibly can this traveling not being bound to any location also being free and flexible to accept certain offers that are around like it could be that next week. Someone talks to me or walks up to me and says like why don't why don't you join me? I've scheduled. Jeweler I planned this trip to go here and there and I could easily just accept it or take the offers a yesterday's I have my own plan. So I'm this this Freedom that you mentioned that is really really one of the most important things to me. Yes. So I mean, sorry to kind of go off on this tangent on you know, this kind of part of your philosophy here, but I find it fascinating. Would you mind kind of giving us some background? Was there anything that really got you into this? I do think that it so. Shirley definitely a relationship. That wasn't no more when I started to travel a little more that that is really and I was never a big traveler. We went on like holidays a week here and week there and enjoyed it at the beach or so, like most people do and when that relationship ended I started to travel more often. I went I went on a little weekend trips. I came back and was excited what I've learned what I've seen new cultures that I'd experienced. Even within Europe, for example, you can do that quite easily right travel. The countries are so close. You can experience different cultures easily over a weekend. I kept extending that I made longer trips I decided oh there was Asia was quite tempting. So I went over to Asia for about two months came back and I was I was hooked the traveling that was around 14 15 traveling became a big part of my life, and I just Wanted to see more of the world. I've realized for the last year's. I've never really done that I've been in this relationship. Maybe I would almost call it a hamster wheel that I was in and that I kind of escaped or jumped out of by this relationship that ended and when I realized how excited I could get and how how much there is to see like the more you travel the more places you go to and the more people you meet the longer your lists. List gets of places that you want to go to and I just never really stopped. I found a way to combine the two working in it and having a job where you could either work remotely or arrange it in a way that it that it fits with your travel schedules was definitely super convenient and I would say around 14 15 and 16 I traveled. A lot like moving every other week or every other month and that is something that slow down. So look slow down a little over the over the last two years. I'm not a fast traveler anymore. I'm not a digital Nomad that needs to be at a new place every other month. I can stay in adding like for example in lisp and that I stayed for the last six months. I did my traveling sure they were a lot of conferences. I was in Berlin. And there was Riga there was London they were there was San Francisco to but I had sort of my base in Lisbon and from Lisbon I traveled and but I also really like lisp and Lisbon is a beautiful place great weather lovely people the beach is closed. I choose those places as well. And then also costs right? So costs is definitely a huge Factor when you choose a place that you want to live in for a couple months. Yeah, but I slow down for the last couple of months for the last two years. I'm staying a little longer in certain areas and I tried to get the most out of it. I explored a place I go out. I see things I meet people and it is a great way of living. I feel like I could go on forever. But also at the same time, I'm open to everything. It's not that I want to do this and forcefully sort of go every other month or Feel Restless or I would need to go but it is just it fulfills me. Really? Yeah, would you say that you keep your possessions and things that you own to a minimum. Absolutely. Absolutely when I left an apartment or my last real apartment that I stayed for for longer than like a year. I got rid of probably 90% of what I owned at the time a lot of things I gave away some things. I sold and also threw away a bunch of stuff when I realized how much I had accumulated over the past decade or so. So by now I don't have much anymore. I have a little storage facility with a bunch of cardboard boxes that I once or twice a year ago to and pick out a couple things or if sometimes when I work on a project, I might just might also stay close to the company that I work with for for 3-4 months and then also go to that story. Facility get a couple things just for convenience sake but what I own really have fits into a into a suitcase and a carry-on luggage and that I carry with me and it's fantastic. I don't need much or I did I don't need much anymore. I don't buy things. I mean apart from ATM sort of equipment that needs to be replaced or those our Hardware's definitely I think that I invest in but apart from that I don't go out and need my laptop is From 2014. I think I replace things as they go bust. So do I need a new a new sweater? Do I need new pants? Yeah, then I buy a pair of new pants and I throw my old pants or give them away if I give them to the place where other people might still use second-hand clothes reducing my fixed costs dramatically since I don't pay rent anywhere has helped me to just survive. Live longer with a given amount of money, right you can if I work for 3-4 months and I do have a low-cost life. I can stretch it. They quite quite a fair bit and I own very little things. I can easily put it here right in front of me and have a good overview of everything that I have and it is really liberating. It comes back to back to this point of Freedom the freedom not to be worried about a car or about a Mentor about hundreds of thousands of other things plants and work on that you have and own and needs to be like everything you own needs to be maintained somehow, right and I have very little things. So I'd almost spent no time on things that I have and gives me a much much more time to spend in Bitcoin. Absolutely. It sounds like you kind of embody the whole fight club quote of the things that you own end up owning you. Yeah. Yeah exactly. That is the case three. I really appreciate going into the more personal spot there. Yeah. Sure. So how else do you plan to kind of improve the lightning ATM going for? Do you have any particular plans on that? Oh, yeah. I've got a huge huge list of things that I want to work on and I do think especially this comes down to the fact that it has been really overwhelming the feedback that I got from the community people who want one people who want to build one people. Are just super super encouraging telling me how amazing they think this is and how much they liked the project. I've got a huge list of things that I want to do. I'm in touch with a couple of people who are willing to contribute as well some have already there have been a bunch of pull requests that I've merged into it. For example, there is a topic quite at this point, so I do want to have different screens for Example, so right now there is this one screen that you can work with. It's an e-ink display from Papyrus. It's like an English manufacturer and there is a ton of different screens that you could use with this ATM TFT displays other ink displays and I want to make the ATM more compatible with different screens. There is this point of making it easier for people. So one thing that I'm constantly thinking about is a Like a Linux distribution a sort of lean distribution that I could eventually put together myself sort of like an ATM Linux distribution lightning ATM Linux distribution that people could download only a couple megabytes in size flash to an SD card and have basically everything ready to go and that's another thing that I'm interested in then there is this idea of having a PCB board designed for the ATM. So right now as I said before there is like NT plus cables and a lot of different things that you need to connect. It would be nice to have a custom-designed PCB board with a couple of connectors where you click in your display click in your Raspberry Pi and it had like a couple of connectors still for the coin acceptor and for the button, but it would be a lot easier and easier for non-technical people to put it together sort of in a sort of a Lego system almost you could say On the software level there is a couple of things that I'm working on right now. I built the ATM initially with the compatibility for l n d. So L&D works as the backup note a worked as the backup still does work as the back end node for the ATM. I'm planning to also have it work with see lightning. My goal is really yet again since I want to also. Get those on board who aren't too technical BTC pay is one of my favorite projects in this space and I intend to have a setup process where people just scan their PTC pay credentials that you can show on your in your back end of PTC pay. You just go to your rest API you get the QR code and this QR code same as you would show an invoice that needs to be paid to the ATM. You just take that QR code show it With the camera of the ATM and then the ATM would basically just configure itself within within seconds really it would be ready to use your BTC pay server to pay out people who use your ATM. This also works at the moment with L and T X spot, which is a telegram lightning wallet. So you can also connect your ATM to this L&T export. This is even easier. It is a non-custodial solution, but Even easier if you just want to use it with like 10 20 bucks or so, you can download this or not even download you have telegram you create a new conversation with this L&T x pot. And you are you have a lightning wallet you top it up with some Bitcoin 20,000 satoshi's and then you can connect this but yet again only within within like a minute to the ATM just there is a command you create a QR code with In LNG exports and this QR code you show to the ATM and then your ATM is ready to pay satoshi's to whoever uses the ATM. So what there is a lot of improvement that needs to go into ux because by now there were so many things added over the last couple of months that I now need to figure how do I create or how do I design the user interaction? Because there is on one hand there is the people who will use the eye. ATM as end consumers as those who put in their coins and receive satoshi's and on the other hand. There is the owner of the ATM who wants to do certain things who wants to set it up who wanted to be secure who wants it to be easy as well. Maybe have a have an overview somewhere in a web brief overview a web dashboard or something where they could see what's been going on. Yeah, those those are a couple of things but I've probably only mentioned about half of the things that that I've lived have on my list while Kind of, you know doing this whole thing and getting it up to speed. Was there any difficulties in working with lightning or anything unique to bitcoin while developing at are getting up and running to bitcoin and lightning I would almost say there weren't that many issues? No, I did have I started initially. I got to say it was around late 2019. So definitely network issues with amounts that Lo and Li. It'll weren't really a problem. So I rarely have routing issues that that almost never happens what I had issues with in the very beginning when I when I try to hook up lnd to my ATM was that I started with the Chia RPC API and that did not work that well. I just I managed somehow to to make to make it work, but it was just a little too finicky at the end and then I decided Go with the rest API that's also provided and that is Flawless that works just perfectly fine. Never had any problems never had any issues. So what lightning or Bitcoin concerns its know it's fairly simple. It's fairly that is a couple of like at this point. The ATM is really an ATM that you need to be close by as the owner. You can just put it someplace and expect people to know what they what I have to do Insert Coins and then Yeah, it's still at a point where you sort of need to be next to the ATM and this and explain how things have to happen or how they have to interact with. The ATM. I would say it will definitely get to a point where also this user interaction problem will be solved mentioning this because for example if you just display or if you show the ATM a normal Bitcoin address, then it obviously can't pay to that. A dress right? You you got to have a lightning invoice. So there should be a warning saying oh this is not this is not a lightning invoice you please display a lightning invoice or for example if I can reach the note, but there is no route would I may be in the future the topic came up of maybe even like opening a channel towards that no door to watch that wallet with this initial transaction would be an option right? I could rather than sending Bitcoin or Satoshi through existing channels I could Use this initial interaction with the user of the ATM to open a channel to watch them and push the the bottom mount towards them would be would be an idea for future implementation. But what I think I had more issues and troubles with the hardware part that I had with lightning the lightning part was fairly easy about that project. You know, how much time you need to kind of dedicate to this, you know, if you had only weekends would it take you know, six months? You know, what are we looking at here? At this point I've a lot of people asked and I often say at this point. I don't really recommend doing it yet. I'm happy for everybody that does for people who are technical enough with Hardware with software with Linux. They should absolutely go and try because it helps it helps the development. It's great to have other people building it and giving feedback and helping improve to improve the software, but it is still really not. It's not hands on at all. So if you're not Technical and you would do this you would start doing this today and even with my help, it'll take you a long time. It'll probably take you. Yeah months as you say a little more technical people. I think could do that in probably say to three weekends or something. If you are if you've ever played around with Hardware, if you have maybe some experience with Arduino, you know how to connect a couple of cables if you know what Say what are gpio pins? How do I talk to them? What is how do I flash a Linux distribution? How do I set up a Raspberry Pi and how do know a little bit of Kit clone my repo and you definitely need like at this as I said in need sort of like a couple of pictures from me where you can see where all the cables need to go. Where do they need to be connected? But I do think for technical people it is still feasible as it's been demonstrated. Strated within my direct messages that I got over Twitter so I can see that people are actually building it. I have seen that other people were able to get to the point where we're inserting coins things sort of work. They were maybe a couple of flaws but for technical people, yes, it can be done in a reasonable amount of time. But I am at this point not really encouraging anyone. I am not saying yes, go people, please go and build it. I'm sort of Getting to the point where it is a stable reliable project with the fundamentals solid fundamentals a great code base on GitHub and most importantly when I had the time to write a proper tutorial a guideline. I really really love what VDC pay server has done with their documentation there doc doc dot bdcp a server dot org is a is a great great platform for people to go on and research. And how things need to happen and how to go about it and I want to have the same for the lightning ATM. I want to have this website where people can go to and just go through one step after the other and that is the point where I feel comfortable and where I will encourage people where I will say. Yes, please people go by these heart this hardware parts and build it. This is there are the instructions tell me if there's something you don't understand. I'll help you. I'll fix it. I'll adapt. Update but I think that will probably take another say to 3 months if people wanted to support the project in some different way. How would they go about doing that? I think what would help the most is definitely giving me feedback. Like if even if you're not Technical and you maybe you don't think you can build it yourself give me feedback on the things you see online. Maybe you are at a conference. I will be again this year on a couple of Vince's and it would be nice just to hear your thoughts on it. What what would you like to see? What could be done better? Yeah, what are the things that you'd be excited being built into this ATM? What would make you go and want to build one of those? These are definitely things non-technical people could contribute to the project open an issue on GitHub. If there's something about the code or certain features that you would want to see implemented into it. Yeah, that would that would certainly help it. Was there anything else about the ATM that you thought maybe the listener should know about before we kind of end the show here. Mmm. I think we covered we covered most of it. Yeah, probably all of it. I do think yeah that just if you see it on Twitter hit me up ask me questions. I'm fairly fairly responsive if there's anything that you want to know if things you want to let let me know or things you don't. Really understand just hit me up ask me. Yeah, I want to hit a couple kind of easy lightning questions just for fun here before we close out. Sure. Okay. Is there any kind of lightning app out there that you would that you would say that you really enjoy? Yes Phoenix Phoenix is I've been blown away when they published it. It's just it's just a fantastic application their user Story the medium post. I think it Is that they put out the sort of story that they went through downloading a wallet funding it deleting it sending money from it. It's a beautiful application. It's specifically if you know how lightning works and what needs to happen in the background for this to be possible. It's a gorgeous beautiful application. I'm I really hope soon they announced it for 2020 that there will be an iPhone app as well because this is the lightning go to wallet that I that I Amend to people when they ask me what wallet to install absolutely. I really enjoy the work that they've been doing over there as well. So going on from there. Is there a Lightning app that you would like to see out there? That doesn't exist quite yes. I would like to see messaging I've seen something in I think that was Berlin as well as a lightning messaging application, and I know that some others are sort of playing around with it, that will be Interesting an interesting application messaging overthrew the lightning Network completely encrypted end-to-end encrypted. So that will be that will be something really fascinating. I definitely think that's my most popular answer when it comes to that particular question. I've been getting that a lot as the messaging thing. I think that's kind of reaching the end of my my questions here. Do you want to go to let the listeners know how they can find you on Twitter and the rest? Of the internet and all that. Yeah. Absolutely. They can find me as 21 is enough. Pretty much everywhere 21 is enough. And that is where I am where they can reach me on Twitter Twitter is pretty much where you can reach me my DMs are open. So if there's any questions if there's anything you want to know if you need help with the ATM, I will be at a bunch of conferences definitely in London for advancing Bitcoin and there. Is going to be the lightning hack days. There is what else is there? I think there's one or two others already scheduled for this year. Definitely at any conference that I'm at hit me up. I'm always open to discussions or questions, whatever whatever you have happy to engage. Perfect. I'll probably most likely see you at the Bitcoin 2020 in San Francisco. This year. Good cool. Yeah, I'm looking forward to that. I just want to go ahead and thank you for joining me on the lightning junkies podcast 21. Thank you very much. Yeah, it's been a pleasure great being on boom. That was the 21st episode of the lightning junkies podcast. Did you learn anything on this podcast the digital Nomad kind of lifestyle that 21 is enough. kind of operates within is something that I envy very much Loki one of the goals with you know this podcast and the other podcast that I'm starting is to be able to give myself a very similar kind of digital Nomad lifestyle where I'm not necessarily tied to any one particular location and just kind of constantly travel and learn explore life understand myself understand my place within the universe, whatever that means if this Cast generated value in your life, please consider donating to my crowdfunding campaign. You can find it at crowdfund dot lightning Junkies dotnet. You can donate both Bitcoin on chain and Bitcoin off chain using the lightning Network, you can donate 100 sites or you can donate a million or anything in between or even more if you're really feeling generous. There are other ways to support the podcast as well. You can't hit me with tipping dot me you can pay for episodes on Ellen cast.com you can sign up for spark Swap and earn 100,000 SATs. I'll also earn 100,000 SATs if you sign up and by $15 worth of bitcoin using this perk swap service the link for that is in the show notes as well. If you wanted to sign up for the fold app, and you haven't done that before use my link below and we'll both get 20,000 sets. If you can afford to help financially, please spread the word about the lightning Junkies. Just tell people this is the best Bitcoin lightning Network podcast that exists in the two universes. Don't forget to subscribe on whatever podcast platform you use and don't forget to subscribe to the YouTube channel, which is linked in the show notes. I do plan to eventually have more video content like tutorials and video interviews. I probably won't be in those video interviews myself, but hey, we'll have other people in the interviews and that's good enough right beyond that. I'm going to go ahead and leave you with that. I will see you lovely lovely people on the lightning Network.
This is the 21st episode of the Lightning Junkies podcast, in this 21st episode, we have 21isEnough. 21 has created an open source Lightning ATM project that allows you to input coins and get paid for those coins over the Lightning Network. This ATM is currently in a prototype stage as 21 progresses the project.We talk about:   21's Background  Dogecoin  Dogecoin Similar to Lightning  Getting into Bitcoin   Getting into Lightning   Lightning ATM   ATM Prototype   Skills  Needed to Construct Lightning ATM   Living in the Present Philosophy   Digital Nomad   Freedom   Minimalism   Future of Lightning ATM   Support for BTCPay Server/LNTXBot   Issues with deving with Bitcoin or Lightning? Ways to Support Lightning ATM   Favorite Lightning App   Messaging over Lightning Network  21's Twitter: https://twitter.com/21isenough 21's Github: https://github.com/21isenough Lightning ATM project on Github: https://github.com/21isenough/LightningATM  If you want to stack 100k sats, sign up for Sparkswap! Sign up for Sparkswap, buy at least $15 worth of Bitcoin, and then click this link: https://tinyurl.com/LNJspark  Sign up for Fold using this link and we will both get 20k sats: https://use.foldapp.com/r/zbqRZDKZ  Sponsor the podcast with Bitcoin on-chain or over the Lightning Network: http://crowdfund.lightningjunkies.net  Tip me on Tippin.me: https://tippin.me/@LNJunkies Pay for the episode on LNCast: LNCast.com  Follow my Lightning Network blog: https://blog.sicksubroutine.com/ Follow Lightning Junkies on Twitter: https://twitter.com/LNJunkies Follow Chaz Cryptoson on Twitter: https://twitter.com/thechaz  ---   Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/lightning-junkies/support 