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We will be talking about surviving R.Kelly for season 2 episodes two and three will be talking about how he uses young girls to bait more young girls how he uses nda's to silences victims and how he can smell a Wounded Woman a mile away so much drama when we return I'm Maria Menounos and you're tuned in to AfterBuzz TV the ESPN activity top now. Hey guys. Oh my gosh. We are actually on season two surviving are Kelly and we have so much to cover because we are actually covering episodes two and three today and I am your host. My name is Angela Taylor and I have this awesome entertainment writer here next to me. Mr. Kenneth Ware. How you doing Kenneth? I'm doing well could be better, you know the topic that were discussing. But yeah glad to be here with you to talk about it, too. Sure that these victims are heard. Yes. Absolutely. So what were your overall thoughts about episodes two and three overall? It just felt like Groundhog Day. Yeah, we're rehashing the same things the stories that have been told for number decades like these are well-documented allegations and just so many nda's and just so many things that have happening and it just kind of it's very exhausting. However, when I hear those women speak, it's very empowering to know that they're there ready to speak their mind and that we just have to listen to them. So it's a lot of mixed emotions with this documentary. I feel the same way my overall thoughts were it's like finally like we're actually getting a voice and they're not afraid to use their voice and one of them said that we've been talking the whole All time we're just finally getting a frequency like the world is opening up to hear us. And so I felt like this is the platform sad to say, you know, it's at the expense of so many different women and how they're handling with this type of trauma like for the rest of their lives. They're going to be known as our Kelly victims So at their expense, but it's still they get to stand on a platform and help out other women who are in the same position. Maybe with a celebrity maybe with a family member, but at least they know that they're not alone and that's what's important. Yes. Definitely. And I mean we have just so many juicy things to talk about from the nda's just the way that he was baiting young girls. I mean, there's just so many layers to this story. We've been between his music and everything is just so many different things that we have to you know, touch base. So let's jump right into it. You kicked it off for us. Let's talk about how he used young women to bait other young women that opens up with his first victim Tiffany a Hawkins. Tell me what you thought about her testimony and how she gave great detail of how she used. Well, first of all, she got her friends from school, which were also 14 and 15 at the time to come to our Kelly's apartment. And she ended up experiencing something on an adult level where she's actually sending young young girls to have sex with our Kelly and she was like well as long as it's not me and then it ended up being her and then she turns into his sex slave. How did that like resonate with you on watching a young like to me when I was watching her. She was a child. Yeah. She was a grown woman, but she was speaking from The Voice. The perspective of a child. How did that make you feel? I was very disgusted. Yeah, I'm a big brother. I have I respect women. I respect black women very highly. So to hear that somebody that I looked up to as an artist as a creative kind of inspiration for me to know that he did all of these devious things and to hear the way that he I mean he called himself the Pied Piper and like they said what does that mean? Exactly? I was wonder what that meant. What is Piper so there's a old like Fable tell that this guy the Pied Piper he would play like the flute and the children would follow. So yeah, so we'll Circle for me just now full circle and while we're all, you know, Kronk off the Pied Piper in his music, you know, but that I mean, it's like over the it's our Kelly has been telling us what he's been doing and we're just so just so in love with the music that we just can't really see straight. But with what she was saying about how she was bringing her friends. It just makes me think about when you're going out with someone. It's like, oh you got some friends or you guys are friends. And I mean the fact that he was able to get her to get her other friends and they were 14 and 15 and she didn't even really realized what she was doing exactly till she realized what he was doing. Yes, because she was proud of her. Yes, because She was like her whole Focus From the documentary was she wanted to be a singer. She wanted to be a star. She wanted to be like Whitney Houston. She said the first time she sung for him. He felt like share and what she was like did I did I do good good. I was it. Okay invalidation. Yeah, that's why she was able to get so many people to kind of chime in because there was this promise of stardom right? And so I can imagine if she felt like She will gain stardom from being connected with him. The other girls were feeling like they will gain some type of recognition for being in his world and his Circle. I mean having the privilege to go inside of his home so I can imagine them just having a field day at school talking about their encounters with our Kelly may be leaving out the terrible detail. Yes, and just knowing that even as a child, these are high school students and I go back to my high school years and if there was a celebrity D and my friend said hey come over here to this address. So and so is here we're going and we're going to go I'm going to make sure that if it's something my mom might not approve that okay. Well, I'm just gonna say I'm at this friend house so that I can go over here. But our Kelly he just did not have good intentions for those girls young girls and it just like it just makes you like what you're you're having a party with these 14 and in year old girls and not only that there are other people that are involved and that are seen that see what is happening. And yes and manager, right and Angela Yee, she was assistant. She was she hit the nail like right on it when she said like people enabled him and it's like when there's five six or numerous fifteen-year-old girls coming into your apartment. Like where were the other adults that were there? Like hey like we Know what's going on by come on now, right and then Michelle Williams when she said Michelle Williams, sorry, I'm jumping ahead but he had a hairdresser and we're going to talk about her in the moment. But his hairdresser said that Miss lenita Carter was his hairdresser. She was aged 24 when she was doing his hair and she saw Michelle Williams at the studio and Michelle stopped her and she was like, how old are you so that that just goes to show you how many other celebrities knew what he was doing and knew what he was up to and kept silence. So I'm not trying to throw any shade or sure Michelle Williams, but it's like how many other artists were well aware of what our Kelly was doing. It was it's crazy. It was it was definitely public knowledge and I think it's safe to say that almost everybody knew about it because it was it became a running joke kind of like when men go to prison and it Like, oh don't drop the soap and it's kind of like you laugh with it. But you're talking about men that are being abused raped and the same thing when everybody knew our Kelly Mary Dahlia it was the wedding certificate was published in Vibe magazine right? Saw that it was real people in the industry knew that however, there was a non-disclosure and then it just kind of went away and then he gave us I Believe I Can Fly and all of these other yeah. And Found Jesus. Yes, all that great stuff, you know, he had multiple personalities and I believe that so you mentioned the whole Alia thing. Yeah. So speaking of living out loud. He titled her album age ain't nothing but a number and she was 15 when she married him. So I mean, you can't get any more blatant than that. Like that was a very direct punch to everybody. That even speculated age ain't nothing but a number and he goes and marries 15 year old at Lea and she's not allowed to discuss it or talk about it and then him calling himself the Pied Piper and then all of these sexually eluding things he has on album covers and things he says that were implicit but they were explicit so all of these messages he's sending out to the world. Old and we're receiving them but we're not receiving them. What is your take on why we didn't do anything then like why are we just now mute our Kelly? I think it was more. We receive the messages most people receive the messages, but they block them because they were listening to the music as well. So kind of hard to people some people to separate the musician from the pedophile like, oh no will I still like 12 Play? Like TP to.com. That's my album. Oh, I believe I can fly on Space Jam like trial he can't do that or them girls will Fast and you know, all of that stuff, but I think going back to Alia rest in peace to baby girl. Yeah, but even hindsight is 20/20 when you go back and look at the album cover like he is just in the background. He's kind of into learning like a predator this is that what that freaks me out like once I heard it, It and I saw it. I'm like bro and the lyrics even tried to like he's so out with it. Yes, and it's he's arrogant like his music. It was disguised in the music and even in those lyrics age ain't nothing but a number going down ain't nothing but a thing, why do you have this 15 year old girl going? We're in these lyrics it ain't nothing but a thing like I mean just looking back on it. It's just it's it's very disturbing and That was kind of the first time where he actually could have been stopped was because of the non-disclosure agreement and he was able to continue his career that definitely empowered him because it's like oh y'all can't y'all can't stop me exactly it just perpetuated that type of sexual abuse and speaking of perpetuating sexual abuse. Let's talk about Susan logins. She was The Mastermind of his silence settlements and it's like somebody stop her. I mean that is crazy how she would take these victims and make them sign your life away. So basically you're making a deal with the Devil by saying. Okay. Well if I give you x amount of money which to me wasn't anything 250,000 dollars. Oh my gosh, you'll be done with that in a year and a half. I mean it's especially for someone who's not used to having money your 250s gone in a year and a half. But anyways, I'm just like You could never make me so my my soul to the devil. I mean you're buying my silence and basically making me live with this torment for a dollar for a price while this guy goes on to making multiple millions of dollars and perpetuating these acts on other victims and you're seeing this done publicly and you can't do anything about it. You can't say anything about it. So and I think that kind of goes back to in a previous episode. They talked about his relationship with neighbor. Mr. Henry. Yeah, man, where his mom took $5,000 according to one of his brothers that yeah the for this island. That's it. Yes for it not to testify when he got out of jail and that kind of kind of started that is also shows that when people don't when you don't I mean $250,000 to some people that's that's In the lottery that is that is there. Oh, I can do this. I can do that and I can get my life together and do just all kind of things that I want to do and a lot of these girls or women at the time. I mean, you don't really know what their financial situation was and they were they wore it and and it's just like yeah that said most people sounds like a good deal. Most people don't even make $250,000 within five to ten years of them. Just working. A full-time job 40 hours a week. So if you tell someone hey, I'll give you 250 K. They're not thinking about okay. Well tax is going to take this much out and all of this. All they see is 250 K thinking like this because Cole cash you got Her commission right is getting a check and I think that's a it's several. It is the fact that she said to lenita that your store is not right because you told your 24 you're too old for our Kelly. What are you talking about? He touched you where right and I was taken aback by that. I was very insulted and I just could not believe that she was okay with going to bed at night knowing what she knew and really benefiting from these women's trauma and I and a lot of a person by the way live. Let me go on record saying she's a horrible person and a lot of people have benefited over the years which is why it's we just can't it's our Kelly and then there's just so many people as Anjali said that have enabled him whether it's people in the industry from his record label that wanted to make sure that okay. Well, let's make sure we keep this quiet. So let's give them some money so that We can still put out this next single because there's gonna be a number one single we want to step in the Name of Love. So it's just so many people that have enabled him, especially with this team so many yes people so many people that have allowed our Kelly to just do whatever he has wanted to do over the years and he has paid these people hush money these non-disclosure agreements and it's like once you do that it's done you can't speak on it and he's basically bought Silence from From his victim so it's like victimizing them twice. Right and it's just it's just unfortunate and as it unravels and you just hear these stories of these women and they say we've been saying this since the 90s, this is 20/20. This is nearly 30 years later and we're finally getting to a point where he's being he's going to court and he's been to court before but we're thinks he's finally lost his record deal, which is like well, he's had this record deal for the past 20 plus. Year Mom drive like come on now what's going on? So and I mean even the artist that he's worked with over the years like now a lot of people are chiming in and saying things but I mean our Kelly still pops up on records. He was just on juicy booty with Chris Brown & Junaid like I mean that was just a couple years ago and I mean, he's stays, you know, he still relative mix. He's still very relevant before we get into our next heavy topic. I believe Kenneth has something to share. With you viewers. Yes. Yes. We just wanted to thank you for making us the ESPN of TV talk now for us to continue to grow. We definitely need your help. Make sure you click subscribe on YouTube. And if you're listening on iTunes, give us a rating of 5 Stars. We love those comments. Keep them coming. Keep them coming. Absolutely can't thank you so much for that. I wanted to touch on his family situation and I mean talk about enabling he was expecting his younger brother Kerry to enable him by taking the fall for the fourteen-year-old 6p tape. So as Joslin likes to call it P tape, so I just wanted to ask you how did you feel knowing there are? Kelly was willing to throw his own brother under the bus asking him to take the rap for him instead of the actual perpetrator himself throwing it off on his brother. Like hey take this for me and I'll get you a car and I get you 50k and I get you a record deal and it's like bra like are you kidding me right now? Yeah, I don't think our Kelly has his whole life seems like it has been constructed. Instructed on manipulation. Yeah freshly with people that are close to him that he claims to love and not to the to have the audacity. Yeah even asked his brother that and to that's a permanent record and he was just like hey, I need to throw somebody under the bus and what it was his go to let me get him some money exactly who you think Harry looks like Robert know. I would need to see like side-by-side pictures of the year of this. Video have seen it already in I'm sorry Bruce looks more like our daily, but not carry any. Yeah, and he just I don't know if it could be age or say him being in prison or you know, I don't know but I yeah, you're talking about Bruce and prison. Well, yeah Bruce and prison will just and his brothers in general like hmm. They they possibly could have looked like each other back in the you know, where rub me the wrong way Bruce. Rubbed me the wrong way when he said that these women knew that they were being videotaped and then he tells a personal account of how our Kelly videotaped him without his knowledge. So what makes you think your brother can make you fall for the okey-doke set up a camera while you're having sex with someone unbeknownst to you and he can't do it for the women. They they knew about it and everyone. So funny because they set the the shots up to where these women are saying. No, I don't know. No, he never asked me. No, I did not consent to be videos. Like all of these accounts that the women are not consenting to being videotape or it had not even having knowledge of it. So what is your take on Bruce's statement? I would say that Bruce is just as problematic as his brother boom, and that's just the only way to put it like know. Were one in a blur. Yes and the Big Brother Big Brother and they were just in that environment and it's it's it's just like what like our Kelly has built this this world around him where he is just allowed to do whatever he wants to do and that includes treating women mistreating women underage women having sex with underage girls having other girls go service like waitress. Is to go pick up other girls and bring back, you know his desires and feeding his sexual desires and him not really dealing with I mean, it just all goes back to his childhood and that molestation he dealt with I know one of his brothers spoke on like they didn't like being molested but our Kelly he had a he got slick mouth with his mom and you know, it's like those at that young age from like 8 to 14. I think they say and when the sexual abuse happened it's like he was creating this world and he knew that he had this beautiful voice that when he's he opened his mouth people. Listen people loved it. So when you put okay now I'm a multi-platinum artist with millions and millions of dollars and people are doing whatever I want them to do. Yeah, and I'll you know what? I'm married to Leah, but you know what everybody still love me and then she still got her career. So it's all good. We just want to talk about it. Yes, keep it moving. Right out and it's like the thing that really kind of was heartbreaking is when they show like all these girls from all these years like it went from like current to like back to 1991 to the first one and they did like a compilation. You just saw all these photos and you just that's the first one that came out. She doesn't know if she was the first one exactly. Let's be clear like he has been done. Like I really feel like this sickness has been going on since His childhood even though he was a child himself. There's no telling what he was doing when he was 13 14 15. And I mean it just it sickens me actually think about it. It's very heartbreaking to also just know that we all felt all of these women all the adults are the record labels as everybody and it goes just goes back to when he married a Leah and the early 90s like that there were That was concrete. That was solid we knew that happened. We knew that our Kelly had a problem. However, what do we do about it? Everybody joked about it. Like it was it was common knowledge that was joked about on the radio on television celebrities joked about it, like everybody knew our Kelly mayor D'Elia everybody saw a man. That was allegedly our Kelly. Urinating on a like these were just jokes that kept going and going and going and now we're finally talking about it, but we're not laughing. Yeah, and it's a totally different story. Yeah, so I want to talk about something. I was very poignant that jaronda actually spoke up and said she believes that our Kelly hates women and it makes so much sense. He uses the Shouldn't tactics day. He's picked up over the years from Lord knows where and he allows these women to confide in him. He confides in them. I'll share my abuse story if you share mine if you share yours and then he uses their story against him like what he did with this hairdresser lenita and how when she wouldn't give him, you know head he was like you want me to beat you like Your husband did right and she's crying go fix your face, you know, and then she goes to the restroom and I think like I'm actually going into my most shocking moment where she wasn't even aware. He ejaculated on her face and his semen had her eyes closed like she couldn't even open her eyes. I was trying to imagine like my God. I can't I can't That was that that was definitely a shocking one of those moments that took my breath away and I needed to paused and get my stuff together and then finish the recording. I was just like this happened this really happened. It's a thing that you hear about a lot more with women, especially with these recent allegations in the me to movement and times up about where a guy would just pull out his penis and start masturbating and would Jack like wait, People like really do that like that happen actually living here in La coming from Dallas, Texas. I've Seen It All I've literally seen a man take out his penis and not only just pee at the bus stop in public but jack off while looking at me at the bus stop. So I'm like in a whole car and I'm at a red light and I'm like, okay, this is not happening. Like so I mental illness is real right, especially here in La this is where it just kind of manifests. Yeah, but man that that was definitely shocking and I mean that kind of goes to one of my shocking moments was with Dame - he was very vocal about his disdain for our Kelly and how Alia was open about her relationship with our Kelly and you know, she was a good heart. Good person and a good soul and just was like, you know, what no hard feelings or anything against this man, but I don't want him around him. Keep him away from me. Right and the most shocking thing for me was well there was the time period of their relationship and then you go look at the fiesta video the remix video with our Kelly featuring Jay-Z and there you have Dame Dash popping bottles, and this is in 2001 after the incident. Way after the incident after the incident with aleeya, right Damon Dash said he even needed therapy for what he knew about. What our Kelly did to illya he said he was in therapy for it. So so that to me that was shocking just to know that okay, your you've harbored all these feelings. These ill feelings toward this man. However, And 2001 you're poppin bottles with Jay-Z and the fiesta remix video one of our Kelly's I mean top songs. And so where was that same energy, you know that that you spoke of and that that just really just shows us that how people enabled him because it's like if when he initially married Alia and it was like, oh no like Whoo, why? Nobody's going to talk about this like we're having a whole meeting about his next album, but we're not going to discuss. He married a teenager. Okay, that's what's going on here. Like the fact that nobody spoke up and then like you have people that are speaking of now, but it's like what were you doing back? Then? It's like oh Dame you were popping bottles in the fiesta remix video. So I mean, it's just very unfortunate. So you think he's a hypocrite I would not very The air in his true feelings for our Kelly. I wouldn't say that he he's a hypocrite. I he definitely feel I feel like you feel that way but I support you so much that I'm going to appear and it's right. Yeah, and it's like I don't know what the Sark it would it would be nice to know what were the circumstances because the parent that was the time when every video from Big Pimpin and every other video with Jay-Z Dame Dash was there shirtless with the bottles it became just a thing. However, just like you knew what song this was right at the time you were dating. Alya. So was it a thing? Like? Okay. Well, I'm gonna go shoot this video and be in this video because it's gonna probably be a top single, you know more like yeah business and it seems like the notoriety of you know, just having that appearance in the video. It could be it was a thing like we're back then Dame Dash was kind of like the Diddy with bad boy like all up in the video and everything. So like damn - like it was just On that usually if it's a Jay-Z video game that has going to be right next to him with the girls and poppin bottles. So so let's talk about our Kelly's. Hey for women. I wanted to to backpedal on that. Let's let's talk about the history and how that informs us of how he met really feel about women. He says jaronda said that he opened up to her and said that his mother did not protect him and I can only think Think that by that she was maybe talking about the sister sexually abusing our Kelly and Mister Henry taking the hush money from mr. Henry. So all of this is informing us as to why or how he could have turned into the monster that he is today. So what are your feelings about him hating women, I would say that that's just so complicated. That is very complicated relationship. Censorship because our Kelly has like these seems like dual personalities, which is definitely expressed in his music where he can speak. So like the song Sadie where he talks about the love for his mother where he can do is really a song. I love the word woman. Yes. He lifts us up. Yes. That's why that that is my song think that's from Chocolate Factory. And yes, And it's just kind of like a dr. Jekyll and Hyde, like just really he can speak so beautifully about a woman and then he can talk about how he's paying the woman that he can go sing about his love for Jesus and for God. And it just really takes me back to that TP to.com album where I mean, it was just sexually explicit from beginning to fill in on your booty. Then after that it's the storm is over now and it's just like when you just go back and revisit his music and listen to those lyrics it's just like wow things are like hmmm. He was really expressing himself lies Duality exactly. Yeah, so guys Let's get into news and gossip. Well, mr. Dennis. We're yes. Yes. We are going to get into news and gossip. All right. So according to TMZ now, we had a fight on Instagram live. Yes last week honey last week and this is just this is like the NeverEnding Story like when they was the Gayle King interview and he blew up you just like watching it like what and disbelief now the same two women who were supporting him. They're fighting on Instagram live Miss Jocelyn her mug shot. We might have that mug shot right there had that fight with as real clay now miss clay claimed on the Instagram live that Jocelyn had sex with her while she was still a my age. Yes. And as soon as she said that if Joseline just let loose so it's just actually joycelyn, Jos. Joycelyn. Yes. Joycelyn. So that is according to TMZ. This happened and the Trump Tower in downtown Chicago and our Kelly's apartment. Yes. I thought she did you see the fight. I asked our snippet of the live and I definitely thought she was moving out. So yeah, and then joycelyn is calling as really evil and as like a how is she? Evil when she's telling her truth, so that just kind of shows you how manipulated and how like wrong their their frame of thought is when they're in love with him. They're fighting tooth and nail. It's very cold light. Like I mean our Kelly has created this cult over the years where he has these women that will do or say anything and distance themselves from their family cut off communication. And I mean anything like that is just like my this is a hole the colt and it's like Miss clay. She is breaking away from that. It would be interesting to see if she will pursue charges against joycelyn regarding the sexual acts that she said happened when she was a minor and also if she will speak on her truth because if so, she's been lying the whole time. So now it's like you going yeah, so that's kind of a that's a part of the our Kelly package it is When you when you when you sign up with a the deluxe package probably comes with the STD. Oh, yes, honey. Yeah sign up for that are Kelly package necessarily get rid of you get a album. You won't get some love songs and according to the victim gonna get a room in his apartment Penthouse and then you're going to get what you have been booted as soon as you start saying no to him you get suited and booted and that's what it seemed like as soon as As Miss clay said that she was going to say no and was done with it. Jerusalem was I oh, no, you're not about to mess up what I got going on and that's just how it felt and it'll just be interesting to see how this plays out and with these women because I mean these are victims joycelyn is still a victim and just to see that how she reacted to and it was just was so violent to her like as soon as she said like and you did this to me and it was just like, uh, Yeah, it went off and it just like you usually see that from your abuser. Rhonda said that that's how our Kelly was insulted us Auntie. Like there's a switch. He's nice. He wants to take care of you. And then as soon as you stop dancing to the beat of his drum, he turns on you and he becomes physically abusive which I didn't realize he was like also physically abusive on top of being sexually abusive. So that that that's crazy so many Heavy topics and we could literally talk about this all night long, but we have ran out of time guys. We're going to give you our predictions right now Kenneth. What do you think will be going on for the next couple of episodes that is just going to be more Revelations things that we knew but just put in really putting faces with these names and these voices. Absolutely. I feel like there will be more victims. There will be more details that I cannot deal with And there will be more poignant moments as to how this animal came to be. So yeah, those are my predictions and we got so much lined up. We will be giving you the scoop in the next couple of days on episodes 4 and 5 and until then I have been your host on jail Taylor. You can find me on Instagram at I'm Jill Taylor underscore. Where can we find you Kenneth? I am Kenneth Ware and you can follow me on all social media platforms under Kenneth. We're all right guys, we have covered surviving are Kelly episodes two and three will see you later. Bye our founder Keven undergaro and me Maria Menounos would like to thank you for tuning in to AfterBuzz TV. Remember, we're not just the first where the biggest in the world and were the only destination for all your favorite TV shows whatever you crave. We've got it. So go to AfterBuzz tv.com and check out our lineup Buzz ya later. Hmm. The views expressed herein are those of the host only you do not necessarily reflect the views of AfterBuzz TV or its owners of principle.
In episodes 2 and 3, numerous victims elaborated on their abuse under the hands of global superstar R. Kelly. His younger brother Carey stated R. Kelly tried to bribe him; his older brother said the girls knew they were being videotaped. According to his first underage victim, a budding singer, R. Kelly used her to bait other girls, usually around the age of 14 and 15. She repeatedly watched him have sex with the aforementioned girls she brought to his condo before he eventually turned his abuse towards her. It was also well-documented that R. Kelly used NDAs to silence his victims over the years. Many women stated that he shared his past sexual abuse stories in order to gain their trust and eventually manipulate them. One point made clear throughout both episodes: "He [R. Kelly] can smell a wounded woman a mile away." Today's After Show Was Hosted By: Angele Taylor & Kenneth Ware  Follow us on http://www.Twitter.com/AfterBuzzTV "Like" Us on http://www.Facebook.com/AfterBuzzTV For more After Shows for your favorite TV shows and the latest news in TV, Film, and exclusive celebrity interviews, visit http://www.AfterBuzzTV.com  ---   This episode is sponsored by  · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. 