Hey, how you doing? So this is episode 16 of Swift over coffee is actually the very first one where it's literally over coffee because I recorded like midnight and like he's a terrific time. So it's lasting One Step middle of night. So we actually have no expense spared actual coffee this time to ensure that it's real. Yeah. Well that's gills matter.I like my coffee a little sugary in fukui with whipped cream. So it's not my style. So it's the first time we're doing a live episode. We've got no ideas how to know work out. I think people have no idea either we're gonna kind of wing it. Do you want to kind of a bit little bit show explain how the show works of just yeah against my so so normally the at the format is a quick half hour show and we do that intentionally because we just want to get right into it, you know, a lot of podcasts can Ramble On for on and on kind of conduit now, we just want to jump right into it. So we do a quick little intro a new section.We do our each do a pick for an episode and some open ballot where we put out a tweet, and then we get response from the community. Yeah, so this time I hope you've all been enjoying the conference so far. I've had a great time. Let me being here in London, and my favorite events is one of his home crowd. It was Sean's first talk yesterday wasn't the amazing wasn't he amazing? Not only has to do live coding as well. No transatlantic. I mean just incredible good effort. How is I was walking zombie yesterday when I gave my talk, so I hope it didn't open it come across but I got about 10 hours of sleep last night. So I'm a new person. We're gonna go. Yeah, so let's talk about some news because this week we had some very exciting news Sean. What happened just yesterday. I want to talk about it. We're not gonna yeah. I didn't get it in case you couldn't tell by that response. So I was my first time ever doing the lottery so I can't complain too much right? It's my first try. But yeah, did you get a ticket by the gets it? Yeah, that's all I got to get yesterday get that is the first thing you hear you haven't had before is you get a receipt from Apple. But even the confirmation of you're gonna go it's like you've just paid us 1,200 pounds for the right to win the lottery. So yes, I have got the right to go again. It's my fourth time going on. It's pretty fair. You see the day in the old in the old days back when I was a lad, you know the other as iOS it wasn't even a lottery. It was first come first serve and it was usually around noon UK time. So a lot of The Californians were still in bed actually a phone call from Apple saying be next to the kitchen in five minutes. There was no warning and your they're ready, you know, refresh refresh refresh go. So, yes, it wasn't all wasn't all luck. I mean a little bit. I was refreshing like mad last night Paul's like he got my email to Gmail. I'm like no no every five minutes refreshing and then there was a rumor that I might happen like, you know a roll out slowly so spent all night like scrolling and finally when I woke up this I got the good old rejection email. So but you did get an email from Apple didn't you stop so I tweeted it out. I did this is at like 10 o'clock last night before I go to bed. I scroll down. It says you'll receive from apple pie was like, oh yeah, here we go, and it was my HBO now subscription renewal. So thanks for that is like I really thought it was like yes, this is it. Yeah, fortunately he has some local they can go along to altar calls and there's next door and there's layer. It's probably try. Swift again. It's a fantastic week. Regardless. Yeah, I saw that um open calls for papers for all cough just kind of gotten out so considering that as well. So yeah, it is is a very long one hour train ride away, but I'll suck it up. I'll make it down there. What do you like and say, you know International speaker, it's truly loved you in London. I love your parishes receiving I see yeah. Yeah. Well also I can recommend if you are there for the week come and say hello. You can go and see his lovely mansion in San Francisco. I'll hang out there is a weekly podcast. I can go hang out there help with that. They will definitely create a lot of content were there for sure. Yeah recommend it go check it out recommended. Also the news we have finally SE 250 the Swift Code style not guidelines is now a formal Swift Evolution proposal until that my talk at high risk on this afternoon. It's the 250th proposal. There's a lot more that's a massive number. What a nice it's not to five six like a pair of to but it's elegant nice meaningful number we talked about this last episode to a little because it was in proposal. So the news this this episode is that it is now, you know in review officially it's happening sort of go back to the structure of the show is a little weird for us to do a show this quick because we do them every two weeks and we just did one Monday. So it's only been three days. So we're like what has happened in the past three days that we can talk about. That's how fast with move exactly exactly. Now I can tell you for a fact this has been invented for a long time. This project came actually out of Google around with a sort of like a was a flash scary thing Google forked Swift a year ago. It wasn't for kitchen a GitHub clone, but they had people there working. Since about April last year and it's finally seeing fruition Apple now seeing this is a good idea. I'm worth adding it. Yeah, I'm we talk about something else that I was a little against it at first like I kind of like the style guides we have out there now. I don't know if you need to know where shouting exactly. Yeah, it's agrees with me. It's great. But yeah, so I don't know how I feel about this, but we'll see how it goes and we'll talk to Nick Lockwood. He's here somewhere. He makes with formats one of two fantastic formatting tool to have in the community. There are questions out there whether we're going to see this will actually help or hurt that So we've seen SPM come out SPM did slow down and work on Carthage and cocoapods everyone thought oh, it's fine. That's camel take over and we still haven't got right. You know, I with math busy. So we'll Swift format slow down will swiftly in slow down right now. Hopefully about two months. We'll have SPM compatibility, hopefully, so we're hoping for right at that dumb dumb. That's yeah find out I'll let you know. I'll lose him. I'm sure we'll talk about it. Yeah. Also, we have sec 0 to 14. Which is modifying the way we have key path Expressions as functions and this is a proposal from the Stephen who also Greg Stephen does point three fantastic Advanced Swift regular video cast and it lets us use key pass directly in function calls run having closures of stuff. We can now say here's the key path much more clearly. Is this our just syntactic sugar. Is it just easier to write or is it performance boost or what was that? What was the motivation behind? So if you eliminate because here you have an example The Proposal where you can have it. Custom operator. I think he's is the caret symbol. Hmm. And this removes the caret symbol. I know it sounds trivial saving a few characters, right but it does make it much clearer and you know, obviously on brand always he's all that point three syntax, right if we can avoid passing it a closer to things like here's a function to call instead it becomes much much clearer. So it's another nice little I mean, let me talk to them. I talk about paper cuts and Swift. Yep. It's not pick up being solved over again a bit nicer to work with so I think the Great Nice, hopefully we'll see you soon. So enough news. Let's talk about our pics now normally a pick out something over the last week or two. We've learned about Swift or about programming in general and why you like it so much. Obviously, we are live at one of the world's finest conferences. I was common in London. So we thought we'd to talk about some more pics from this event what things some things we liked about what went well and this event. So for me a major highlight was the talk in the morning the keynote from when brilliant talk Talk about inspiring us to do more with our code and our community and think about our responsibilities inside the business and it really made me think about what is my responsibility? What do I try and commit to in my code and she starts with this fantastic quote from an illegal are doing is from saying a how we spend our time is how we spend our lives, you know, just think think the only doing right now the habits you have today the word you have today the actions you have today become weeks become months become years, and that was your whole life. And then she kind of went bigger from that and then bigger from that until you know, why do we even coat it became you know, really quite intense. Like I love this quote you gave us your code isn't just about building a better code base. It's about building a Better Business and that I know it's so easy to get stuck into you know, or in the to weekly scrum and have a meeting and have a retrospective look at jira tickets and so forth and that matters that's important of course is important but it adds up and it adds up. And it adds up and you know, why do we code? Why do you coach or why are you cold? I got you talking about my Mansion. I gotta pay rent in San Francisco. So I go I mean, I can't have a normal job there and pay that rent. Yeah, the swimming pool isn't for cheap, right, you know. Oh no, it'd be better just to clarify real quick. I live in a small small studio apartment. That doesn't that is the joke. I do not have a mansion He that's the running joke, you know, he was in there recording a live stream last last time that was like, you know, where's the bathroom is like, you know, it's over in the West Wing just just walk over there. The thing is it's so easy to say, you know, why do we code because it's there because like, you know mountain to climb but there's more than that, you know what actually here to solve real-world problems and he makes some really clear cut things like I contribute to making sustainable company actually in quickly through Cody busy and so forth, you know, really clear statements. This is how I personally make a difference in the bigger scheme of things and answering these kinds of questions asking mom yourselves and Your colleagues it's hard. It's intense. I thought this Milliken is Kelly was it was great, you know, she's a very funny speaker. She's entertains is exciting great. Listen to but it's not just a 40-minute keynote. I'm gonna go away for a watch that again and say, okay, what would I say this time Andre answer those questions and think more and more and more. It was it was powerful stuff. I thought yeah, but actually I had the privilege of spending 90 minutes earlier today talking about her book recommended by the way Sean. It's called intentional friendships. It's a lovely Book song. Gumroad recommend it very highly but it's about you know, as an adult. What does it mean to make friends? And she asks the same sort of thing asks, like here's a question is a question question and it sounds like ours is question, but it's not it's a really hard question you're going to dig into and think carefully about or if I really believed to this not what my Facebook highlight will look this. What do I really believe the answer to this is yes interesting. I found like as I get older like obviously the friend Paul kind of like Falls away. It's hard to make new friends as and all cause you're set in your ways. Thankfully actually to the YouTube channel and like this community mean Paul like I've made a lot of friends, you know, that way now that my interests are leaning more towards like development and helping people out. So it's interesting how you make friends as an adult versus, you know growing up well speak to go and wash his head should be hopefully his some we're going to I spent nine thread yesterday. I took this it afterwards if you see me iOS common understanding to space I spent nine years as I've been talking to purple. Yeah, my mind feels full and yet empty because she just asks questions again again makes you think and you can of course say oh it's Fine. I'm okay. Don't do that. You've got to really dig into it and ask harder stuff than that. So that's my best talk that I really love that talk. If you haven't seen it or listeners and podcasters your on go to the school batcycle. I was calling you can watch it back on there recommend very highly a second highlight. With meeting Connie she's here and this has been commissioned by the way from her mother. I got to be had today. She's 10 years old. She's going through apples. Everyone can co-curriculum. She's made apps for a our kit and Cora Mel and she's here thanks to skills matter. Now if you're thinking my talk today, how can I contribute to our community? This is your chance. This is the next generation of Coda right here be inspired by all of you. You've got to go and talk to these folks. I see the code shown interest and be encouraging and be the motivator. I know you can be so I recommend you go and speak to her if it was just a wonderful experience. This is me saying that big fish. I just caught up with Lee. Anyway, Sean what are your picks? Yeah, so my highlights of the conference Arnie's Powers talk apologize need your talk wasn't online yet. So I couldn't get the beautiful screen shots of the talk like Paul did showing me up a little bit here. So you get a blurry screen shot from the internet. Sorry needs no disrespect but I really enjoyed your talk just a little bit ago admittedly. I'm always been one of those persons that said I'll just melt if I ever touch an Android phone and her her talk was actually about Android and iOS teams like working together and how they do that at her believe it's Forget the name of the company mines. Oh thats what it was thank you for was just out there. Yeah, and she talked about how their team interacts because she is a cross platform developer. They're sure it's both Android and iOS and not gonna lie. She kind of made me want to like dip my toes in the water a little bit talking about how like kotlin is like very similar in this was the last episode of Swift of a communist or live Colin over coffee the spin-off now of anyway, I just was really interesting how their teamwork I like. They're a little small. Dale and their team that I think goes a long way and that was she called him semantic emojis. And that was let me back up a little bit. So normally you may have seen this you have an iOS slack Channel and an Android selection. We were just completely segregated like get away from me. Don't talk to me but she recommended having a mobile ends Channel where both of them are in there and then use this semantic emojis to tag it as you know, this is an Android talk. This is an iOS talk but I like that because we're all curious people right? Well like to build things I think even though you see the Android tag on it. You might read it you're bored. Not just might spark interest make spark curiosity. So that's why I kind of like that idea behind that and we don't have an Android team yet. But when we do and my company I definitely want to do that because yeah, I think I would read some stuff get curious. Yeah, let me let me try that. That's how I got into coding in the first place. I was just talking to my developers at a start-up and started asking questions. And you know here I am. Yeah. Do you work with Android at all or so admission? I've done stacks of Android work never encountered. A lot of it was for Java work. I built multiple large apps in Android, you know, I've written Lots and lots of so sharp I've written lots and lots of PHP and lot of JavaScript, you know tens of thousands of lines of not more for each of those. I'm an equal-opportunity love giver and that's why I cry myself because I've made games Xbox 360. It's a fantastically interesting platform to work with and I've taken ideas from that. I post them to sdl in Python for Linux and for that to iPhone, you know, if you assume for a second that Swift has all the answers that you like it's as good as going to get the xcode is the Best ever win a citizen ID you're missing out on so much. I love all those things course I do. It's not cool down over coffee. Sure. Yeah II Highway sorry II highlighter wasn't a talk was like on is gonna sound cheesy, but honestly like meeting all of you a lot of people that have come up to me for those who didn't see my talk or don't know who I am. I'm a YouTuber. So I put out videos all the time see people interacting with me on Twitter, you know, I just talking to a camera. It's very hard to realize there's people behind those view counts and subscriber number we own and we know exactly when real people find that so I've had plenty of people come up and say like, Like real every videos. I got a job because your videos and that just like really hits home because again, it's just hard for me to realize like the possible impact. I'm having so thank you to anyone. It's came up to me and if you haven't come with me yet because I don't know for some weird reason feel free to come up and say hi because I really love talking to you and it's been that's been the highlight honestly is meeting everybody and talking to everybody here. Yeah. We recommend you go to his channel youtube.com slash journal and everything was well no need for a plug pie. Just had a nice heartwarming moment. Just kidding. Just kidding. Yeah. She's youtube.com slash on out. And now we can do literally tens of people who are now all subscribe to our channel. It's amazing recommended very much. Okay, let's talk about open ballot because we try and ask a question each podcast that we thinks topical and interesting and get feedback from listeners to broaden the debate and getting different perspectives. And this time we ask the question. Is it a good idea for developing skilled in just one platform or to expand out and you gave mysteriously the idea of Android as well. Is this running anything little bit little bit. I'm terrified. I don't know you Anymore, you know, so I have to call and change me. Did you know way from IOS weird? This is we unzip t-shirt underneath this Android ha ha so we had Stacks responses more than usual. Thanks to these lovely Folks at Iowa's con again bring conference great coffee, and we can do it with the group's we have one here saying and their laundress good any response from Kaya toast who I was to follow as you can see, she's okay with great speech here at I was kind but notifications I saw in Amsterdam. Love it very much. She said good question. Thank you. Bye I think being skilled and both can be tough to pull off if you are working on one platform in your day job by think if possible having the context of how both platforms work helps the app be consistent across platforms and helps team collaboration. So yes, it should so it's that it depends right? Okay, the thing with the conference it depends on depends on John. Yeah. So I think what you're saying I got the question was saying is that yes, I this is about shared vocabulary and I used to work. Liners like full-time it magazines for a long time and working with InDesign and designers have Photoshop and so forth and I'm not a designer. You see my website, right? I cannot decipher anything whatsoever. But having that shared vocabulary when they say things like, you know, the the negative space here is not going to work Paul. So yeah, you're absolutely right terrible negative space there, but that that shared vocabulary really matters because you can start saying in they say things quickly. I'm going to say what you mean by that you just know what they mean is. Like I said to you I'll let's use generics here. You know, I go. Yeah, what's a jarek? You know what I mean straight away because it's an understanding and the language like if you had asked me about like a testing question, I just looked at you if I go, it's there the black seven thousand yard stare your eyes glaze over. Yeah, he's not really a test of Shawn, you know, what else we have shown so my Billy says it's rare person that a person can understand. I'm sorry Master both but I think in order to fully understand a problem need to apply more than one solution. So the problem is engineering mobile applications knowing more than one solution IOS and Android can help build a more complete mental. On this so we group these answers together. You notice was were probably kind of similar basically saying that yeah, it's like I said a shared language where you can have an understanding of the whole problem. You know, here's how we do it on iOS. Here's how we do it on Android and like right now I could only be like, oh I could I could do that on iOS cool do it on Android. I have no clue. So at least have a good place to start and get the ball rolling. But also you get ideas, you know don't assume for a minute that you know, it's brilliant videos and obviously world-class articles whatever but there are stacks of other people. Writing about Android and Haskell and rust and JavaScript with a amazing ideas that I encourage everyone here and listening the thief just take that steel of wholesale because you know, we have not got a monopoly on good ideas and iOS with Bailey got any good ideas. Nice compared to look at the size of the JavaScript Community which is 10 times the size and way faster so go and see there's I just want to see God's quote, you know, great artists steal. Yeah, you'll steal steal steal, you know, just don't steal material design does not do that. Yeah, not that okay anything. We're asking questions here about yes, you should know more than one. Let's find out where there's a our school says 'a friend of the show Chris. That's Greenberg says, I think yes, especially if your company develops apps both platforms also, see what's there who pick up best practice from the other side? So I don't know how many folks in the audience actually share code across platforms. crickets Yes of listeners. Basically no one put their hand up. It's one of those things that in theory fantastic. You couldn't just use flutter. He knows who rattling issues. Xamarin. The theory is totally their write once Run Anywhere practice different ball game, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I think it's a silver bullet that doesn't exist in my opinion. Yeah when Kennedy is has got your sure sure. Yeah, hopefully, all right. Well what parts is me like she commissioned Gradle Android now. Wow. Anyway, what's next show? So Robin who's also here gave a great talk on cellular view controllers. This is a great question, highly exclamation point my answer would be yes, but in my humble opinion your honest opinion on it's all right. I've seen enough Hans. Yeah. Don't let the onion no one will wrong with his humble opinion in my humble opinion doing something non-mobile back in Game Dev. Etcetera is more valuable than learning another mobile. Um, so Robin isn't necessarily saying yes, you should learn Android but where I agree with this is I think expanding into like said back in Game Dev elsewhere will definitely make you more, you know rounded developer and I just think it's probably more interesting at least in my opinion. So I really like Robins answer here one thing at so again going to look would I enjoy following the computer if you regularly tweaks out gang stuff? I think what I found once you've made any game once you've been bitten by The Game Dev bug doesn't matter where you go afterwards always thinking, you know rule. Cool pathfinding the other Rhythm here. It never leaves you that could like, you know the demo scene or shaders, right? There's so much fun out there. Nothing that fall in the app. I'm making that if you saw my talk, I showed screenshots of it a lunar like we're it's not a game but we're just gamifying something small and I'm literally using the Bare Bones basic Sprite kit. Nothing crazy, but you're right. I got the bug and like now the next step. I want to make absolutely a game. Like I already have the idea that like I caught that bug like you said, it's broke it. We have gone to Second Hand to my learning one here saying I'm supposed to mix with face that's named as an iOS Developer feel like I still have so much to learn about iOS that time put my robe is expensive iOS perhaps I can set them all the platforms when I feel like I'm close to mastering iOS does anyone Master iOS Besides me or there's 10,000 new apis on a new Swift version and new devices and she can really Master now. It's a moving Target. It's impossible. Yeah, so folks often ask me Paul. How did you books about watch OS and TOs and Mac OS and it's I followed the Sherlock Holmes approach. I will I will eject all of one thing for my brain. I forget my wife's name and kid's name for a while totally inhale. Mac OS for eight weeks. 12 weeks 16 weeks. Even an even longer live breathe it constantly writing writing writing and then when I'm finished it check that and think what's next and always noodling with the thinks it is hard. Yeah. Yeah, whatever Shawn so Richard lows are so and if he's in the audience today, I saw him yesterday. Yeah. Yes, since I believe is important to learn skills for more than one platform or language, but if you try to learn them together, there's a danger they may become a jack of all trades and a master of none. Learn one really really well before learning the second and I love this approach and it's actually the approach. I'm taking the my career again. If you don't know my background, I only know Swift I haven't messed with anything else and that was like an intentional choice because I believe what he says here is like I want to maybe four or five years from now once I feel like I have a really good grasp on Swift then I'll probably Branch out but I chose the specialization route and not that's just my opinion, right? There's nothing wrong with being a generalist. I do believe learning more than one language more than one platform does make you more well-rounded. But again, I think it's personal choice. I think both are valid options. Yeah, so fun fact fuel my very first iPhone OS Ship 10 years ago this year it was called flash Zilla. It was rejected by Apple had the word flashing its title. They were like, oh my God - no rejection. They have to explain to them. They approved it and the app was a language learning app flashcards app for me to use. I just learn multiple of time. I was curious in linguistics run the language itself that have like an English word on one side on the back would be Greek Japanese and French the time so you have to do all three at the same time and it's intense it really screws ahead. A little bit. Can you start mixing up languages quite easily and now 10 years old? I think I know how much how much Spanish to actually remember only the comedy phrases like a yo quiero comprar una Gata faster parapet. Oh, I'd like to buy a false Moustache my dog and we just like I am never going to use that in practice. But I remember it really damn. Well, I just know Services. That's all I know. There you go the important stuff. Okay sure. Take it away. Yes. Oh, well, I don't know if we do. We do animal wrap up here how prepared we are right now. They could wait. No. Yeah. No. We wrap up here, you know saying thank you, you know for watching so it's over coffee. Not normally it's listening. But yeah for watching everybody out there. Thank you for listening. We don't have next week's open ballot. We don't know we'll put online. We'll put that on the face. But anyway, thank you for listening. Like you said, this was a little weird first. We don't do it normally this way. So we would love feedback in case we ever decide to do something like this again. Maybe not after her but yeah, let us know what you think and yeah, thanks for listening /watch. We are sort of a coffee on Twitter. He shall Endeavour. I'm two straws have been a great audience. Thank very much.
In this episode: the Swift style guide marches on to formal review, we pick out our favorite events at iOSCon, and discuss whether it's important for iOS developers to be skilled in more than one platform. - WWDC ticket winners – who got lucky? (Spoiler: it was Paul.) (And not Sean.) - Sean’s first pick: Niamh Power's talk "Better Together" – https://skillsmatter.com/skillscasts/13385-better-together   - Sean's second pick: Getting to attend his first major conference and meeting lots of other Swift developers. - Open ballot: Should mobile developers be skilled in more than one platform, e.g. Android or React as well as iOS? 