Welcome to the power cost which Holly Johnson I'm one of the world's leading Fitness and transformation coaches only provide you with the tools to build your ultimate body and mind. It's absolute pleasure today to have the legend himself. Dr. Andy Galpin on the podcast someone who's killing hugely knowledgeable and I take a huge amount of education and interested in the information or content. You put out two things to The Cutting Edge of everything as a out there at the moment. And so if you give us a brief intro about yourself and him and where you're from what you do your background sure. Well, I am a full-time scientist. I am a professor and I run these Center for sport performance at Cal State Fullerton. So in Southern California Leo my day job is really to to run the center and what that means is we have seven different Laboratories in the whole goal overarching those Laboratories. To study and disseminate research that enhance and support performance. So that's it in one aspect. I also teach of course in graduate classes in the area of program design Sports Nutrition like kind of anything in that realm and then I work on the side with professional athletes. So typically major league baseball players and a lot of combat sport athletes. So on everything every aspect of human performance could be the strength conditioning could be the nutrition could be Be larger practices performance optimization if you will could be really anything that enhances the performance. So that's the quick overview of kind of what I do in terms of you briefly mentioned there about if you deal with it white range of athletes, do you find there's a lot of challenges say, for example, if completely different structures of you have some athletes if there are American football players who are like 350 pounds versus than a 200-pound like long-distance Runner 180-pound long-distance Runner. I presume that Throws different challenges to you. Yeah, I mean honestly the biggest challenge is What I typically say is there's bigger person to person differences than there are categories. Okay. And so if I have to UFC fighters, they may be more different from each other than the one UFC fighter is from my major league baseball player. And so baseball player the hundred or two hundred thirty pound baseball player may be actually pretty similar to the hundred and fifty pound female fighter. Yeah, but they may be way different than 220 pounds boxer if you will. So those are the bills are bigger. Bounces this person a person with the exception of the glaring towns is like baseball is different because the ability to say put them on a very specific diet is almost impossible because they're traveling to a different state every three days so we can just be like well meal prep I could say doesn't work. It's not possible. But on the other end of the token, they have millions of dollars at their exposed at their disposal where they may be different from Olympic wrestler who like it's not going anywhere anytime soon, but the challenges are quite different. So those are pretty dramatic weightlifters or even like MMA fighters boxers. They don't know when they're going to compete again. There is no traditional in season off season baseball player. I know right now when he'll have to report to Spring training seven years from now the schedules already out like I know exactly what he's going to be doing. So those are major categorical challenges, but in terms of the nitty-gritty the soft part of what we do those are bigger between the In the other category, what's your opinion of interest on a Suburban investigate using with clients is genetic testing and epigenetics and looking in to try and work out what people's genetics aren't optimized training around that is that something you think there's Merit in and no no, no not at all with some very very few exceptions number. I was just actually teaching a clinic this weekend in Chicago and this is a topic that I covered but so it is more nuanced and I'm about to say but because we don't have two days to get into it. I'll give you the shorter version now. Yeah. No, I think there's a future there of course things will get better but there's a couple of genetic markers that are fairly well known. I don't necessarily think we're at the place that where we need those genetic test to understand what those things would tell us, for example, some of them were verified things to look at. Are like are you a fast or slow metabolizer of caffeine, but we don't need a genetic test to tell that the key. You're automatically going to know that it's very easy to figure out with one dose. Do you processor digest lactate? Well likely. Okay again, if you're lactose intolerant, you know, so we don't need to really get into these things. So I don't worry about them too much the from a performance perspective now for some health markers if you want to know whether or not to be likely carrier cystic fibrosis because you're thinking about having children. Okay, then genetic testing can be very helpful. But from like a determining which type of tro and training program nutrition you're on again this there are a few of them like, okay. Do you process saturated fat? Well that are okay but for the most part it's not that I don't find any value in them at all. It's just every time I'm making a decision with any app that doesn't matter of money or isn't equation resources are at some point limited so their decision-making time their their mental acuity to deal with things how many things I have to worry about. And so I'm very very specific and cautious with what I'll throw at them and I'm always running a cost-benefit analysis. And for right now the cost of one more thing they have to pay for one more thing. They have to think about one more. Oh, yeah. What did that say? What does that mean? I just don't find any information relative to the other changes. I can make that have a much bigger impact you combine that with the very questionable accuracy and veracity of those things. I'm typically is not a big part of my practice. Do you think he's better off listening to your body's own biofeedback anywhere that you refer to as this if you're lactose intolerant, you know about it. It's is is that with a lot of things the other part of it is to Gen X don't tell us what you are. So it tells you say example you have this particular polymorphism, but how biology works is Gene has to be expressed into an actual protein. So just because you have the gene for something doesn't mean you're actually expressing. It doesn't actually mean is there could be up could be down and so there's not a direct like all you have this chain. Therefore you have this with the exception of if you are missing a gene then we know you're going to be missing a protein. Okay great. But other than that again, it doesn't tell us the actual State and so Would come the equation would be like if you want to understand kind of traffic in a city. It's like yeah, you can look at where all the streets are, but you don't actually know where the cars are or aren't so how much help is it? Really giving you like? Well, I mean you're gonna be able to tell okay. That's the big city versus a little city. But it's not really telling you the current state of anything. He was the General statistics. Well, yeah, I mean it's not telling what's actually happening. It's telling you what's possible. Yeah, but you don't know what you're actually doing so don't find much futility in it was just some of these been spouse around recently something that's I think what people love new man people love like what's the new thing what we cook we do like can we get an advantage? And I don't mean that as like taking a shot of people because people do want to make sure they're giving the best Services possible. People that are paying them. So it is not necessarily a bad trait from the back inside like when your chart and somebody money you do want to be making sure you're giving them the best possible chance for success and that they're getting that value and so I don't blame people for so because that I think it is good that we keep our ear and our eyes on the future what's going on. We should try things we should experiment with things and I love it when I hear people say, yeah. I tried this great like I want to know in a year like come back and tell me you're okay. You've done this if I want people are you finding success like if you Our I'm not gonna be like all you're an idiot. I'll be like, oh that's interesting. And then more people here say that like that that is powerful information. So I don't want to dissuade you from doing these things. I just for me, it doesn't land on my cost-benefit analysis personally, but I'm glad other people are trying things and that's only way to move forward. Right? We don't we don't move forward with collecting information so base with I think sometimes is hopefully as clinical research, but it is anecdotal evidence. Sometimes I think sometimes thumbs can be a placebo effect. Like you said were climbing this training. This builds your genetic profile and we'll make some superhuman because they believe consciously that's what's happening. They probably put more into training and they get better results. Even if it would complete BS but they will now commence our questions without questions studies. No doubt and then this is why the the wall say the plural of anecdote is not data. Yeah, you know, it's like there's a difference. Yeah, I agree. I agree entirely so it's called get your opinion on that and moving over obviously from genetics epigenetics. Essex what's your opinion on like the post-workout window after training with athletes that whole anabolic window Bro Science has talked about. Yeah actual thoughts on that but support it's kind of funny because it's round a bit of a pendulum where I was like, we first found out about it. We were all super excited like great. This is only takes all the training. All right, and then it was kind of like Well turns out that's not exactly how it works. And but then I think we swung too far the other end, which means okay literally doesn't matter. That's not true. So if we unpack this a little bit, here's what we currently know in the best state of evidence if muscle hypertrophy or optimizing maximizing muscle, hypertrophy is the primary goal. It doesn't necessarily matter when you get your protein throughout the day as long as the total amount of protein and it's sort of a 24-hour window is equated and probably in addition to that timing of that protein does matter. So for example, what is probably quite clear at this point is if you 200 grams of protein in one serving a day that will not work as well as 200 grams spread across multiple meals. Then how can you come back and say timing didn't matter? It clearly does matter you have to have it within Thirty One Minute supposed to work out or 61. No, but that doesn't mean timing is irrelevant. Those are two very different things people have to take pay attention to what words mean. This is going to get so far into pedant X, but it's an important because it shows the message one of the things I always talk about is the phrase. I don't like Right. So if I asked you right now do you like American football? You may say I'll do you tell me do you like American football most likely? Okay, so you don't like American football, right? Well that's different than disliking football. Right? So if you don't like it just wait you're telling the absence of like that isn't saying the presence of dislike. Those are different things. Right? So if you're like, I dislike it makes me upset. I don't like it negative reaction that's dislike is different than just not liking. If you're like, well, what do you think about what do you think about these types of red pens you like? I don't like them like that just means like I don't like them. I don't dislike them. I don't really care like this is not something that's there. So the same thing can come back to this routine question is like well just because this because you don't have to have it 30 minutes doesn't mean timing doesn't matter. It does matter this doesn't have to be probably in that exact window and if we expand this conversation further and it's like well if we're what about If we're talking about an athlete who is working out and eating at 11 a.m. Or working at 11 a.m. And haven't eaten yet. How's that window change if they're working out for p.m. After five meals has it changed for nothing is working out of 5 a.m. And it doesn't eat until noon. These are all different answers now that the importance of getting that protein in changes now. In fact, I could tell you a little bit about a but I'll finish this point we can come back to this if you want. And then we're going to study right now in intermittent fasting and muscle hypertrophy and well trained people to try to get at some of these things. And in this case the intermittent fasting folks are training in the fasted State and they remain fasted post-training where the FED group is clearly on. So we're going to see more detail about what this happens but to come back to original point. We come back to study if you want. This is still only the conversation of protein for muscle hypertrophy. Like we haven't you started talking about what about carbohydrate timing that timing matters a lot. What about for an athlete? What about for somebody who's trying to lose weight like all this so it depending on the goal. The umbrella of importance are on importance of the post exercise eating window changes. And so it's not that like, yeah. I'm glad that we're not telling her when you absolutely have to have protein immediately after exercise, but I'm also not happy. We're telling everyone literally the timing of food doesn't matter. This is this is totally untrue, especially with the athletes. I work with who are almost always training twice per day. If not, three times per day that timing matters a tremendous amount because the counter will people will say is well like timing only matters if you're going to train like two or three days in a row, but no one does that what well like probably not bodybuilders sure because like you train your quad and you give it a couple days off and again, but any performance athlete almost surely trans the same also multiple days in a row, so it's unfortunate that too many people that are speaking about Information that space are coming out with the assumption that all of us are only trying to maximize aperture and we're only talking about protein. So it's just that part of the conversation that they leave out when they're talking about all it doesn't matter. Yeah, it does matter matters a lot. Do you think people worry about the minutiae two months is in like they example that they to take them to too much to extremes. It's not like you have to have nutrition post-workout. Therefore has to be straight away immediately or not. It's not there's no like just eat when you're ready to eat and listen to your body in terms of when you feel hungry then eat. Yeah. No, I don't think we want to do that. I think we have to be careful about just like the listen to our body approach any sport psychologist will tell you listening to your brain is a terrible idea. Right? Like you need to talk to your brain. I'll listen to it. I'd say the same thing about your body for a whole host of reasons because there are other factors like ads like social media that drive what you want to do so drives how you feel. Same thing post-exercise. You don't necessarily want to always just listen to your body you want To certainly pay attention to what's happening. But that's if we only respond with how we feel would probably sit around sleep and eat pizza all day. All right, not not the best strategy ever. I don't think that we are getting to Nuance with it. I actually think that it's a bit of the opposite where yes extremism is there and extremism is actually important. So the only time we get extreme results is going to get extreme beliefs. So people that didn't mean the French my my belief in That the problem is people don't take that level of nuance and think about it within their personal context. I think that is the whole problem. So if you see a new study and the title is like protein timing post-exercise did not hands growth. Whatever. Okay, I'm just making that I love you should be like old grade therefore posters like Windows a myth. No, you should say like for protein for this. How do they look at a 65 year old untrained women cool, like doesn't mean it doesn't matter or it's bad science. This is like, okay like I wonder if that's also true. In through 34 year old business Executives who are working out in the afternoon. Hmm interesting like and you add that layer but nothing is like a therefore we're done here. I'm you have to think about it within your personal context. And if you have the ability to think about the mechanism not the like molecular mechanism because it's probably outside of most your scope but just think about like, huh, I mean doesn't take a degree in physiology to think. Okay. So it didn't matter when I ate my protein and they look and you look at the study design is like well, we had a bunch of untrained. And college age kids and they came in fasted. They weren't eating. Okay, like the whoa, if that's probably been different if they came in after eating 60 grams of protein hmm interests like and that's the part that we're missing is because we want new headlines. We want new people want to gain attention on the internet right on Instagram on Twitter. Well, yeah, like they want to be able to be like either like basically everyone wants to be able to have a headline that's going to be like, well what everyone wants to be like, what's the new thing? What's the Place wrong. What's the myth? Right? This is like science doesn't work like that. It's very very rare for us to have one thing come out and be like, whoa, this is different. But that's what people want because I know it's going to grab more like some more followers make more money to people which drives well, yeah for sure whether it's right or wrong, right? Hopefully I've taught sort of their and anyway, what's your thoughts in terms of vegan diet from an athletic and a health point of view so depends on the context a bunch of different. Yeah totally depends on where they're coming from. Are you 30? You've been a professional athlete for nine years that's different than are you trying to build someone into a professional athlete. There's also considerations and context of is this part of your personal ethics or philosophy your approach to the world. Those are separate conversations. So I will leave the I will acknowledge those but I will leave those decided for the moment, right? So for if you don't believe in killing animals for food, and that's just not something you really to move on philosophically. Fine, like I'm not going to waste time trying to convince even though it's probably irrational considering you're not really understanding what actually happens to animals when you make more plant food. I think you're think you're just only thinking about like the big large fuzzy ones not thinking about all the rest of them, but nonetheless that point of side. I mean, I think I don't understand how you could look at the collective understanding of the science as we know it now objectively and find any rationale for thinking that a vegan or vegetarian is superior. That this is a it's it's being there's no good. Faith. That is not a good faith argument. It's there's no way you could fairly look at those data or any data really in any realm of it and think this is clearly a better idea. It doesn't make TV logical sense. It doesn't make evolutionary biological sense. It doesn't make current sense. It doesn't make physiological sense. It doesn't match up with the data. So it just fails on every single possible level of evidence. To think that it is superior. Can someone do it yet can do it is different than should you can Dude sure like those are all different and throwing out one or two people as evidence. It means nothing we talked about the beginning of the conversation like yeah, well anecdotes not data. And so what we're doing with science is trying to identify not what's true science is not really able to give us truth. What it does is reduce. Certainty, and so what we can say is it's most likely most people are not going to have a better performance response if they were to switch from omnivore to or before now does that mean no one knows what that means is again, most likely most people won't and that's what science can tell us. So I have worked with vegan athletes before and it not enough though to have a wide. Like I've worked with a thousand five thousand ones. I have worked with though. It's been a struggle. But that that could be because it's not a great choice or it could be because at the same time those athletes had other things that made their compliance difficult. So you have to work out a lot harder though for performance plan is simple. What do you say the main chance you have with them and try to find a decent quality protein Source? Well that to mean that's the obvious one. But there's a lot more that people don't realize because protein is not not all proteins are created equal depends on of course what the goal is is an endurance athlete is somebody trying to physique competitor is just a baseball player with a energetics are very little is that a again professional fighter fighting 25 minutes, the energetic demands are quite different and so What would the the problems limitations of a all plant diet is different for all those folks right? But not all proteins created equals to 200 grams of broccoli protein is not the same as 200 grams of ground sirloin. And so you can't just run the numbers for macros, if your conversation with vegan, but and omnivore herbivore diets ends and stops with macros. You're just really unqualified to have that conversation. You have to think about other things like B12 Omega-3s. The one that people forget all the time as creatine. Like where's your creating gonna come from? We know particularly for an athlete how critically important that is for performance. We also understand how important it is for cognitive function for decline of mental acuity. Like where is this happening? Where is this getting it from the whole host of other things in that wood line in the micronutrients side that are that are again possible from a planet. Science but you can have to be really specific and careful when they come from so the protein is sort of like the obvious game you want but it's all the other ones that are in my opinion the real concern the marker teachers all of the microbes. Yeah, that can be real hard again because the bioavailability and some of them is enhance and plans and some of them has its reduced so vitamin A like things like this, right? You're probably going to get more vitamin C from plant anywhere from a piece of meat. That's pretty clear. Right? But B12 can be the opposite creating can be opposite and so I'm not advocating either of these reproaches for most people it's probably going to be a well balanced approach is going to be most likely to be most successful and that's pretty clear. Obviously you mentioned in regards to creating their from red meat. Is that something you would look to use with a lot of athletes in multiple times day, like red meat meals. Is there more of this year? I was courts not even that I mean just hanging out like period Any human really? I'm not a I'm not certainly trying to say that all of us should be eating multiple times a day of red meat, but it's not also something we need to go out of our way to avoid health-wise the the old adage of like our red meat being worse for us than white fish or something as we've passed that conversation 20 years ago. So I don't go out of my way to to Advocate. I'm not like Stan everything was like, okay red flag red meat Right. I love him Stan. He's great. He's really smart guy and he's really nice guy, but I'm not the obviously there was like, okay one serving a week read me like that's crazy. So I don't care that much about it with the athletes. I work with I also have to deal with sustainability and they're not going to want to live for the most part on a diet. That is the same thing every day. It's going to be really difficult. I guess some people can do it, but I don't I think there are Long medium to long-term consequences with that and it's not something I find like we need to do and so in my opinion we have to understand how logic Works which is you have the status quo right in order for me to move from the status quo. We need to have evidence to suggest that something is better not the same or you can do this and get back to the normal. Why would I could change that is more difficult as it is more restrictive more limiting if all it can do is get us back to the same box pot at best case scenario. That doesn't make any sense. The athletes going to be like why We doing this like I don't like eating and all these other problems. What are we missing? What are we forgetting? So I don't have that Approach at all unless I was in a situation where I thought like this would be actually measurably better than what we're currently doing. Then I would do it. So this again he doesn't talk about the like extremes and maybe funny more of a middle ground of peoples and yeah, probably the more I became disabled more of a balanced approach overall. It's more for most people and at the same time I do acknowledge. There are lots of people who those Extreme practices are actually the best ever happen any that person laughs that's I work with but I do believe people in the say that I do believe Stan when he says that I do believe individuals and they say they did this and they got better. I'm a hundred percent believe that just that's not the norm like there's a difference between that and the norm and typically what we're after is the bell curve, right? What's going to be most likely work in the middle 70% because that's easier to make recommendations as opposed to giving out recommendations that are really only best for 3% of people. Opal and then 97% of us are screwed this from how to get approach. So there's always been a loyal with everything to and what the reason hundred percent from that point. What's to all opinion on the difference mating from fat loss for fat loss or versus performance is really think you would look at specifically in terms of your clients or like athletes. Well, that's actually interesting. I just covered this exact slide two nights ago in my Nutrition class it's on. Yeah, so a couple of things what's interesting about it is some of the answers I work with are purely in that like maximize physical performance. Thanks, but actually most of the islands I work with fat loss is a huge component because the weight making wait, so if you're in any combat sport you have weight classes the power lifters have weight classes, the weightlifters have weight classes and so I would say fat loss is probably something I deal with more so than actually just Like maximizing performance. I only have well then I'll put it this way the number of mountains. I have a non way best white class spaceports is significantly lower than the opposite. So fat loss is the primary thing. I'm after the vast majority of time and then balancing that with maximizing performance. And in my opinion The Arc the scaffolding is identical between the two approaches fell awesome performance, of course with performance. You can heads towards being a little more aggressive with calories, but Even the performance athlete doesn't want to put on three pounds of extra fat that they didn't need it didn't so why we're not trying to go down. We are trying to not go up more than we need to go up. And we are trying to get them, you know reasonably lean as some point like this is always an advantage so I don't really see them to be that different. I think the soft part the back end stuff is something that changes in terms of like again how you interact with people like is it? Okay nutrition advice for a 34 year old mom of three with the job is different than a perfect. Yes, you're like that part is true. But in terms like what you want them to eat. It's what I call the 90% 90% of these people are going to eat. Same thing it's really not that different. We need to manage overall caloric intake right with the high-performance athlete we might head you up a little bit higher in percentage of carbohydrates. So maybe 5 to 8 grams per kilogram body weight base themselves to having more muscle tissue or their body to be more efficient using the carbohydrates. It's just it's know it's based on the fact that they can get away with a little bit higher calories. That's it. And we want to maximize. I want to head towards I'd rather than eat a little bit more than they need then down. Is it yes, that's it for the fat loss folk, you might knock that down to maybe three to four grams per kilogram. Maybe something like that. Okay, some people might be too much something like B6. There's a lot of variation depending on what would approach they want to do. But other than that, like we're both cases were advocating eating a mostly entirely whole real food. We're eating a balanced. We're going to stick that that protein recommendation pretty damn close something call it a gram per pound of body weight may be a little bit lower even for performance athlete for fat loss. Mom, like it. Those numbers are not going to be that different. Right? So you may be your final lost client is actually even higher in my case. That's one of the things that we do for fat loss has we ratchet up protein pretty quickly. But we do that with performance athlete. In fact, the inverse tends to happen. Sometimes with performance athlete we have to lower protein a little bit because it hurts our ability to get in enough total calories because are too full all the time. So as long as that number is not to critically low then I let them get a little Lower fat have to we're going to be conscious of liquid calories. And again, it doesn't mean avoid I means conscious sometimes we're going to use them intentionally. Sometimes we're going to restrict them depending what we do all the basics. We're going to have a wide variety of colors in our food, which is something I'm around you huge advocate of I'm going to have a variety of preparation. So sometimes we're going to bake. Sometimes we're going to stir fry. Sometimes we're going to eat raw. Sometimes you're gonna Grill we're going to do a variety. He of preparation methods and then most important of all that is going to maximize adherence. Like we're going to put you in a position to where you don't feel like you're in a scarcity mindset that you're in abundance mindset and that you're not we're going to buy all these things. So really, I mean man, it's the same and I've had a lot of people lose a lot of weight and the approach My Philosophy on this thing is the same we want about a 10% caloric restriction the sit, which for fat loss folks. We want to lose about a pound a Of our body weight per week. Or something like that. The only time that gets an exception is with like a fighter and we've got 5 weeks and we're 25 pounds overweight. We can't like math doesn't work. We have to be more aggressive not now will trick the scale at the end. But other than that, like I said the goal of all these folks is have that very slow decline. So really the concepts are the same the the individual methods you might tweak a little bit based on context. But like I said before that level of change is Bigger from person to person than it is Outlet than an athlete. So while the clients I work with I mean they're on their own rapidly massively different approaches just because they're different people and have different scenarios and different Lifestyles that wake up at noon and they wake up 5:00 a.m. They teach they have kids. They don't like athletes have these same sort of things. They're rich or they're not super rich like so the approach is just about the person rather than it is the category the big word that you said that really stuck out to me was the most important one thing that everything is adherence because yeah, you kind of hair to the side point and that's why like this is sale absolutely love and its complexity is the enemy of execution could make it like I can clients come to me. Sometimes I like on a different diet plan every day. It's like if I give you seven different diets every day down there's no way you can stick to this the first weeks. It's way too complex. Yeah, I would We disagree fully a hundred percent because in many of the athletes I have worked with Simplicity is is the problem because they don't get enough buying when it's so simple. This is what I try to do is figure out yeah, cuz they're just like there's no Clarity. Well as it is too basic for them. So this doesn't make it's not of clarity. Yeah the day I want to know exactly what he and I want to know all of you know, they're smart enough to say like, well, my exercise is very different today. Why am I? In the same as I did yesterday that doesn't make any sense Mike I burn way more calories today and the did they really start to question them. But I'm also I initially started agree because some people are like that as well. So what I do is I kind of have two diametrically opposed approaches and I called it being a cook versus a baker. So the difference between cooking and baking in the kitchen baking is chemistry. Baking is a very specific recipe you can't dislike toss things in right like that. It doesn't work. But cooking is exactly that like how many Bill peppers? I don't know to taste right? How many mushrooms are not to taste right? You can't cook a bread like that. You can't just like throw a baking powder into taste you get nothing, right? And so what I do is I try to figure out how they're going to operate and if they are a cook, for example, then I'm a hundred percent with you. Like let's get real simple. It's get basic let's the goal is to do and you less two or three really simple things and let's worry about like long-term. What happens over a month? Let's be consistent. Let's have a let's make this a lifestyle practice that great other folks. I did the opposite because they can't handle that level of openness and so will be like no. All right. Here's the plan mostly getting too much flexibility because they just want like a Richard structural Motif. Yeah. I may have I haven't had that right now Brian Ortega high-level guy 14 and one of you sees a spot for World title options are not his strong suit. He does not like Moses during the day. He does not like having them like this is not an area. He wants to spend as much on energy on his Apprentice thought it was like, why did I hire you if I have to think about what I'm eating at the whole point of hiring you is to just open up the thing Monday at 8. It's eat this then might it says eat this one then eat this one and this one and this one like death and he doesn't care at all. What's in them? There's no question when he has too many other things to think about better. This is below his pay grade. And so he's the opposite. So the diet is very complex. And of course, he's not listening salsa it but it doesn't even matter like that like that. You know, it doesn't matter that it's there, but he wants something that is laid out very clearly I have another athlete is the same way like she wants to know exactly what to eat and when she would rather not have any choices, but she would definitely like it to be catered to every single day like in the end wants to be different and she wants to go text me like I didn't do this instead of training what I do instead cool and when I give her an answer even though I don't know 50 percent of time. I just make the answer up like for sure right because what we're saying like she wants like it takes anxiety way. She knows like okay. We have a plan like it's in place. Yeah, I have many other athletes would be the exact opposite of like what like let's just check in like give me macros or just give me Concepts and I want to go there. So again, I really try to almost say this for the 19th time. I'll save it for the 19, but I won't say the 20th. I promise as you're listening. Probably getting tired of hearing it. But it for me. It really is about the individual approach. I don't like systems like that. I don't people ask me constant. Like can I buy your weight loss system or your weight cut or I literally don't have one. I've never cried over to the client really, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah and then things changed like I wanna do this anymore. I'm tired of this one could do something different a great and sometimes like a different approach, but but I'm also Keep in mind I'm intentionally building a system where it's that's not scalable. So it's not my life. Like I have a real life has taught me that way. But like I have a full-time job elsewhere. So when I work with athletes is something I want to do because I want a really high touch low volume environment. So this is probably not a good approach. If you're trying to make your living having a scalable practices some I'm work with very few outfits at a time intentionally so I can have this level of interaction how many actually see what with this one of Interest You can kind of range depends on the season but as low as 3 to 4, I try not to get higher than 15 right now. It's probably closer to that 15 number just kind of the way it some different fights of Chuck out and things like that. But I try I try to pare it down as much as I can and I also try to fire them as often as I can or evolve them what I'll say like for example, my goal is to not keep them dependent on Me my goal is to get them that position where there's self-sustainable and it's just like great next Camp. Maybe just need to like fire out a couple questions and maybe once a month we got to chat or something like that, but More things pop up. What do we want? What do you think we should do differently here, but I don't want them to be like that. So yeah kind of depends on the system. But yeah probably closer to least 15 right now with maybe half of those are I'd say really high touch like they're in my facility every day or like yeah things like that, like really high touch. The other ones are other ones are probably more like conceptual once a week. We could touch base like hey, let's go. What do I do? So I can have a little bit of a split between those right now because like the baseball players it can't be in every day. They're traveling it's kind of time. So yeah, so those things will be more like I mean, I watch their games or I'll follow up and check and be like, okay, we did this whatever I'll track their they're tracking their food sort of remotely. So I'll just pop in and Overlook things where other people need. Neither again. They're either here every single day or whatever or five days a week whatever they are. And or the remote ones are that's how my day starts like they got to check in every morning every day. What are we doing? And then we'll usually get back in five six times a day. If not more was with a small handful of those. Yeah. It's really high touch. So what's up here? See what sort of feedback would be looking for clients and check instead of ones who checking multiple times a day man. It is totally different for the person half the time, you know, it's sort of like so I'll put this week for some of them that are also really well educated in the space and or maybe more mature or immature is not the right word there just like different personalities. It might be like, okay, we tried this this amount of food part of the work out how to feel like we're you to fold on enough to house energy. Okay. Well, okay. So for this workout, let's go ahead and do that or I let's add this in now because you didn't have enough gas or you're feeling kind of low from this one. You gotta go so far, even though we did this last week l'énergie is lower today have this back or no? No. This right and so maybe just like really straight. So if the other ones it's 90% how to practice go. Oh my God, I'm crying like it was a horrible day. And now like 90% of the the conversation is about something not related to nutrition and performance at all more of a psychologist. Totally like you're you're very much like and the way I approach them is It's like they're going to get it. I'm probably going to insult them. Most likely gonna talk trash Tom most likely. Yeah, I'm going to be like, oh, yeah bad practice today like good could probably lose fight. Anyways, so definitely matter, you know, just like but they know like that's what's coming. So they I want it is my way of being like it's not that big a deal or they want communication with someone. So it's kind of I have a kind of a combination of all of all those out. That's right. Now, we're like, I just know also I may sit on think like, you know, what she or he It would probably really appreciate if I just reached out right now and said listen here. So those are in my mind as well even like I don't need the feedback, but I want them to know I am thinking about them that they that they're you know, that somebody's there really caring about them the whole way because they don't have a head coach that's really there or they don't have a spouse or something like that to give them that so I want to make sure that the they think somebody out there cares about them. Constantly and sometimes people don't understand maybe the pressure that like athletes and take with the 19 sports or under the way. I like to spend say it being entrepreneurs. I'd like an island because you're on your own. There's no one else like yeah, if you're an athlete you're not on the team and it's like you're a fight there there is I think it's understand why they pull on someone like you for support because there is never enough to lean on essentially then were a wife or family around them. Yeah, and it really really Is like especially the Olympic athletes? It's like alright, the last three years is going to come down to next week. And then your 30 so your careers over if you don't think this happen Russia and this is like it's five weeks away. Okay now to four weeks and six days away, okay. Now it's four weeks five days and a half a day away. Like it's just like it's a lot and typically Olympians they all have any money. They don't have all these things. So they're sitting around doing the whole like, okay what happens now? Basically my career is over in December or whatever, you know. And I'm 35. I have no money. I have no idea what to do and I like it like this is also going on Etc or even the baseball players the same thing. It's like, okay, you're making 18 million right now if you have a reasonable year, you might make 40 million next year. Like the state this a 20 million dollar day. You're about to go through. It's like hmm. Like this is really that pressure is incredibly highness. It's pressure like nothing I ever have to deal with personally and so some of them handle it different than others. But yeah, it's it's really real with fighting especially like there's no guarantee. You get to play again after you've see like you don't just get to be like, well, there's game schedule next Friday. I get to play unless coach pulls me like know you can And when and there you see my show off your performance and you just don't know or like they not and when your income is based on fighting. It's like are you gonna get paid twice as here or three times? Well, like that's a really that goes from like campaign my coaches to okay, I can afford to buy a house. So like this is really it's a lot of pressure and then I get that one call but you you know have a torn labrum your shoulder. You have to you have to like you don't get an opportunity again like you have to go find Right, and so now you're like, yeah, I'm trying to train but and so you get it just like there's so many things that go on in their real life where you're like man, this is a tough gig. No, that's why you've become a lot of psychologists and probably an expert as well. Now how well Wednesday that actually I have several really close colleagues that are proper sport psychologist. And so I do push many many clients to them. Actually I do this to like sorry Dad, but I think this is important message as well. I understand that that is not my expertise. And so not only do I push my clients to them, but I will have conversations with this verse. I called just about me in my Approach with them a ton. So I will say things like like I know you can't violate your personal confidentiality with Charlie, but you know, I'm coaching we're working together, right? And so based on what you guys are working on. What should I avoid? All right things I shouldn't be doing or are there any things I can be doing better? From a coaching perspective and I've found that unbelievably helpful. So if you can do that without them, they don't have to violate their confidentiality. So but they can say things like these these phrases or this style of thing is not something we want to emphasize right now. I'm so yeah that again that's been helpful in regards to the vegan approach. In terms of Quito and low carb diets in terms of performance and fat loss obviously fat loss is going to be some form of calorie restriction laws. We have to take him somewhere, you know, like the whole keto fad as well as a big big Rave about in terms of for fat loss. Yeah. So if you look at it from will tackle performance first at this point, you just would have to admit it's inferior. Logical sense to me it logically makes no sense that biochemically doesn't make any sense physiologically doesn't make any sense. And again, the performance data all supports the same thing. It just doesn't make any sense. And in fact, it's worse than that it depending on the exact sport urine if it's virtually anything like a lytic endurance based it's going to be inferior. And that's just as almost as plainly as you can say now some things that are not endurance based. Maybe equal but it's not better. We don't have any indication of all the research that are actually enhanced for performance of any kind with potentially one exception which would be like extreme ultra marathon really high level 200 miles things like that. But even then it's questionable and likely just the same but potential things but anything below that Spectrum it's at best going to take you back to the same thing at or star at normative. It's going to be it's going to harm your performance. So that being said if we look at now just like fat loss. It's the same thing it at best has a very very slight Advantage but practically will have none so I don't see any need to go out of your way to do it having said that one of the things we do have to acknowledge is it is very effective. It's appears to be very sustainable people probably appear to have almost no problem with the adherence of it. That was one of our initial concerns, and I don't think True like it the signs would say that it is effective and people are not having a hard time doing it. They don't fall off the bandwagon from a group average level more so than they fall off of any dietary change, right? So I think that part of the equation has to be acknowledged. So in terms of fat loss with Kido my personal based on the research as we understand now is it seems to be a viable option if you want. So if you've tried other diets and they haven't worked before for Fat while saying you want to try cute a great if you have no interest in Quito and it sounds terrible, you don't have to do it. You can certainly lose weight other ways. If you're really gung-ho for again. You can try it that seems to be just fine. It's not going to be superior not going to be any better. But if it is easier for you to follow and execute and make sure executioner to he runs better than it will work better. But there's nothing magic about it. There are some unique advantages that Quito does offer for other things like clearly this point of Heard about epilepsy and that and that seems to be a great approach for that. But other than that really small area. It doesn't seem to be a massive Advantage for just about anything else again, we say as we were he says like a million times he comes back to the individual properties of the individual if they're not that bothered about your carbohydrates and it probably works from great. If you love bread, for example, they're going to keto diets. Probably not going to be your cup of tea. Yeah. I mean, I have a professional fighter right now who's super into it? And what he does is post-fight. He goes right back into Q. So Q to eat keto diet. Could you dinner tonight? You have them filled with carbohydrates and hundred percent. So he liked a lot 400-500 grams of carbs a day. What's this now? The key thing is that for cognitive function or just how we have he's very concerned about brain damage. So after a fight and I don't disagree with him here. He says like there's not incredibly strong arguments, but there is some argument that potentially that is neuroprotective. So if it's equal or potentially better for him it's worth it. Yeah, he said that the consequences of missing this are so grave that any potential Advantage I have I'm going to take and when we first started working together a couple of years ago, he actually wanted to do Quito in Phi cap, and I said, okay man, like at this point he'd been 20 UFC fighter something like that and I'm like, yeah, I'm like your career like what do you want to do here? And that simply didn't last long. He was just like I can't I don't have fifth gear so I can find but I just don't have that last year. I need to get to and his fighting style is very a war of attrition style. So he's like I can't lose that so I did it wasn't my thing. I said what you want to do. He's the one who kyouko gray and then we I tried to help him do it as best as possible and he came then back and was like, this is not working great. So when they Sort of adjusted so he'll flow back and forth now, so I think that's an important thing also as well as there's a difference when a client comes to you and says, I don't know what to do. What should I do versus here's what I want to do. Can you help me do it to the best way possible I missed that message early on in my career and I conflated the second one with the first one or other. I'll say I completed the second one with always being the first one and so what I mean is if somebody came to me and said, oh I want to do keto and trained for this fight with Quito. I would always respond with why they shouldn't do it. I don't do that anymore. Like if they ask me. What do you think about it? I will tell them I don't think you should do it. But if they come to me already saying this is what I'm going to do. Can you help me do it the best possible then? I mean, I might ask them one time while you want to do that. Are you really sure that you understand sort of the back end. My belief is that that's not the best approach and if they say no no like this what I want then I'll say. Okay great, and I'll never bring it up again. And then I will actually not like even self-sabotage. I hope they like I hope they didn't work so I can prove them. I'm a hundred percent like man, but I got to figure out how to make this thing work because I know the limitations so I really want to make it work for them. My goal is to try to defy the physiology and make it work. I don't want them to fail. We said it's my job interesting on the same thing all y'all probably learned last year or so with myself and with clients in terms of exercise selection. So like for example, if you hate doing a barbell squat, why are you doing that the workout? All right. It's like doing if you don't enjoy the exhale you can be doing except probably not going to give it your all worse. If you enjoy doing hacks court, for example, you're probably so hard and get better results on that. You probably don't like it for a reason right and there's some things that we need to push discomfort on there's some that we just just don't I think that's also sort of like a pseudo. Good message to think about in terms of outside of exercise. Yeah, so are there things going on at work are their practices that you're doing every day that you just like to thank you have to do but you hate them and you're like, I don't really maybe have to do this. How do you had a cool? The one thing its various Business book is basically about how like basically 90% of your success in life is based around doing one or two things very well. And the rest of the stuff you just fluff out your life with really important is to solve the same analogy. Without requesting. Yeah, and I'm not familiar the book. But yeah, I mean there's a lot of the reasons why people ask me how I can for example, like how do you work that? It's how do you run? Like, how are you science is not getting fired for all this seemed like a pretty good at just being like I don't really have to do that part. Like I know you're saying I have to do that, but I'm not going to do that. I can just like all the stuff on the back end that you could take picked out of like all you got to do this training and you gotta do this. I'm like really We tenured other Really Gonna fire me for this. Probably not. I'm just not going to do that anymore. Hello. Just come down to one last point before we finish up today. I want to keep to know Mandy. Yeah, I'm going to biopsy in a few minutes so we will wrap up quickly. So one last question, what's your thoughts on the future of performance and sports and we're going is anything new that's coming or anything. Yeah. No, I do. I think actually we are close to making a real bomb physiologically. So what I mean by that is everyone I'm sure is aware of the sports Gene and obscene scrapbook, right? And and he makes a very compelling argument that for a very long time. We are really not improved physically. So some records keep getting broke. We talked about on offline before the start of the two hour marathon finally got broke and all these things right but he makes a pretty compelling argument that the vast majority of these changes are actually simply coming from changes in technology. In this case. The track is better the shoe is better than the clothing is more. Isn't that were actually not physically running any faster. So he took all these folks put them on the exact same track naked and have them all run. Even the highest trained LeBron James like urine or whatever you want to do with all the sports science behind them is really not actually better than somebody in the 1940s without that stuff. It's just technology differences, right? So the court the shoes things like that any arguments pretty compelling and to be honest. It's pretty accurate having said that I think we are because we are now in the age of precise or Precision medicine. That is going to change. So the problem is we have never had the ability to actually optimize anyone because our brains are not smart enough to take all the variables to happen to physiology and really understand how that works and example blood work, right? This is something we Advocate people do all the time and look at your blood work, right and you want to know whether or not whether your vitamin A is optimized your testosterone is low, etcetera. Well, the problem with that assumption is we don't know what those Optimum bizarre and we don't know like a testosterone goes down. Why does actually happening we tend to think of it like buying are we want this one to be here? And here we want this one to go off this one down. But when you change one the entire system changes, so we don't understand how the whole thing works because when you move one p on my science when you move one piece and keep everything else the same see what happens in physiology when one piece moves everything else moves and that everything in this case is hundreds of millions. And so like we just don't have the brain computing power to figure out then what really happened other than well this thing went up. I think that's good, but the system changed the entire Scaffolding changed behind it the environment changed with supercomputing. We're going to have that power now and so instead of just getting things done. Like I love what the guys at nourishments driver doing with the blood chemistry calculator, right? It's like okay get 30 things measured we can predict 10,000 with 90% accuracy or whatever. This is real. This is here. And this is when we can actually then come and say like okay actually turns out you Charlie want your a vitamin A to B here we want vitamin D to be here. We want it when we can. Things really close to optimize. It's not here yet. It's not here in five years, but people are on to the idea. The other piece of that is people are also generally working away from siloed research, which is like I do my research. I collect my data. I keep my data depending on what's going on. Do you actually be forced to do the opposite which is you have to put all of your individual data points into these big Registries that are open access and people can data mine and software. And run through these things and because of that we're finally going to get real answers because it can account for so many more variables at once that we cannot write with science. We can only account for one at a time but computers can do hundreds and thousands at a time and we're going to be able to see patterns much more accurately than just even like DNA testing which doesn't tell you really anything but you're going to throw that in there with blood work you're going to throw that in there with hormone profiles. You're gonna throw that in there with age and lifestyle factors how Are you like all of these things are going to go into one. So we're going to start to see like oh, wow, you actually knew this and so the idea of personalized individualized training right now is complete joke, it's utter nonsense, right? It's very very very primitive is what I'll say that permitted he's going to be gone fairly soon. So that's um, that's kind of the age of were in well who'll rub out there riding. Somebody know. You're a busy man. You going to go to shoot off. Thank you so much. That was an absolute pleasure. So for anyone to find out Anyway information you get your about your book or anything else was best to get in touch the socials, you know and the Galloping on Instagram. Yeah and Twitter, you know Twitter is the better one for direct linking two studies and things like that because I hate like changing my bio every damn time. I do something. I usually my Cutthroat the title there use Google it if you want and I don't care but those things are there YouTube if you want to watching the videos, so I've been trying to take all my class lectures and stuff and put those Up. So if you want to learn next business programs Ina strength conditioning stuff on nutrition, that's all up there. And that's all free so you can get it all pretty much there. That's where Twitter and Instagram and the YouTubes would be the places to go absolute pleasure for that. I'm sure was tons of salt as know these though. I person taken away from them shortly listenable do so, I think very much for having me. Appreciate it man.
Dr Andy Galpin works with some of the WORLD most elite athletes from UFC to Baseball, he is also the creator of the exercise physiology laboratory at CSU Fullerton, as well as the director of Perfomance. He has a PH.D. in Human Biogenetics and his masters degree is in Human Movement Science Andy's knowledge is at the cutting edge of the latest research, it was incredible to have the opportunity to discuss some fascinating topics with him In this episode we discuss: -  The Post Workout Anabolic Window -  Vegan Diets & The Game Changers Movie -  Are Keto diets optimal for Fat Loss? -  The importance of psychology when dealing with elite athletes -  Are Keto diets optimal for Fat Loss? -  The Future of performance One quote I really loved from this conversation with Andy was “TALK to your body, not LISTEN to your body” If you want to optimise your own human performance this is a MUST listen! If your interested in transforming your life and not just your physique, hit the link below to apply for my Elite One to One Coaching https://www.charliejohnsonfitness.com/pages/coaching-application Or join the WORLDS Biggest 8 Week Transformation Competition with Cash Prizes SHREDDIN8 https://cj8weekshred.com/8-week-shred-home28075522 