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Like the alarm codes previs sent a new purrs spective visit previs sent prrs dot U s-- to learn more Newt request experts serving producers and delivering breakthrough Solutions Genesis the first power In genetics Zim Pro essential trace minerals exceptional performance every Pig a simple yet powerful Pig health and production management tool gestahl always one step ahead swine feeding. Welcome to finding podcast. My name is Martha room Salvage your host for today's episode this episode. Sponsor highlight is about Zim Pro since 1971. Zin Pro Corporation has focused on one thing Trace mineral nutrition as the most research proven organic feed Trace mineral products in the industry Xin Pro performance minerals deliver performance and profitability to swine operations around the globe to know more go to Xin Pro.com. Hello everyone today. We have dr. Roger Campbell from Australia and We're going to chat about the evolution of the Australian pork industry and the research that is coming out of there. And that is also of global interest. Dr. Campbell. How are you? I'm pretty good. How are you guys doing? Good God. I can't complain complain. How is life in Australia? That's pretty good that you know, the prices of turned around a lot. So all the producers are happy and I think they've learned earned where you know, the threshold for for production is under the current circumstances. I see it. But there's a lot of it is a lot of money being made at the moment were bad you had to to tough. He is like everyone else has yeah before I happier. Yeah much happier. Nice. Well good you appreciate the time and the the first question Roger always like to ask is you If you can just walk us through York Long career. You're you're a bit of a legend in the industry's very happy for that. Yeah. So, yeah, we need in the industry a long time, and that's why you know, I've seen it change a lot, but it's been evolutionary not revolutionary. So we'll discuss that later, but I started off when I finished at a Technical College in year 12 and you I couldn't Be an engineer. We're all my friends from that time our Engineers now, so I ended up going to an agricultural College, you know town called Horsham in country Victoria did three years there a year in beef research working with Larry Cora from KSU and then went to Melbourne University or University of Melbourne did a degree in ag science and started work. In research in 1973 with the Victorian Department of Agriculture and werribee and Victoria work there for like 15 years and most exciting year of my life during that period is when I work for 12 months with the US Department of Agriculture in Beltsville, just out of DC with a yeah. It was amazing. It was I was with that boss was a dr. Norm steel, but it just a great. Team, but at that time was when porcine growth hormone was first ever available. They would developing transgenic pigs, you know transgenic for human growth hormone bovine growth hormone was wearing sexy merman sexing semen was happening at the same laboratory. Pretty much changed older my Korea totally or enhance it a lot was amazing year unlimited funds after that. I come back I moved up. To bangy Media industry is the biggest pork producer in Australia as head of their technical division stayed there 11 years, then went to the USA working with a guy called Gary ringer out of Gridley, Illinois lived in Bloomington, Illinois, and also working with the United feed in Indiana for six years in 2005. I came back to Australia has offered the role as CEO of the porks out. Arcee and really spent the last 13 years Marcio in that role and you know was a again another tremendous job. I've never had a bad job. So it's been a great career. That's amazing. Yes, and and you've done how many studies over that period of time I think with the pokes a a say they probably individual projects over 300. When it first started it reinvigorated research in Australia, it filled a big capability gaps earth started 2005. The first one was all about efficiency and cost it finished in 2011. The second one was all about, you know welfare eating quality and it finished in June 2009 a it's a tremendous contribution for relatively small amount of money. to the Australian pork industry now as I remember when I went there a couple years ago and I got very impressed with the amount of research and the quality for the size of the industry. That was its. That was amazing. Yeah, and I do put a put a lot of money into research and you know, it's again if you look at the evolution of the industry a lot of that research prior to the pork CRC and after it is now just part of commercial production, so The greatest thing plus all the young people that were trained during that period a heck a lot of them are now working in. Yeah commercial production either in a research role or a management roles really did change the industry and hopefully it will take it forward in that, you know in a very positive way should very nice. Um, yeah, and then more recently you are you open your own consultancy company, is that right? Yeah, did that about a year maybe a year and a half ago now - yeah. Yes, and that's really been advising individual, you know production people working with a group in Canada and on a couple of boards some of you know commercial production company boards and others a boards that are more involved straight technical side of the business. So it's been going quite well keep me busy anyway. Yes. Yes, that's great. Well, so if you can walk us through their evolution of the Australian pork industry Roger, that would be great. Okay. So so just to put it in context I'll give you some sort of Milestone dates in a moment, but I started in the industry in research in 1973. And at that time there were 40,000 producers and believe it or not. 430,000 sounds the highest number of sales ever in Australia. Well, yeah, right. Yeah, and they're producing a me. I just under 200,000 tons of pork about 3.2 million pigs a year. And the reason there were so many styles and that point was that the government had put quotas on wheat production. So they couldn't deliver they wait, you know the crop Growers couldn't deliver weight to the the desk who handled all the grain so they started putting it through pigs and until that point. It really was a sideline business sideline to Dairy sideline the crops and it changed it about that time 1970 year 1972 1973, but now we have a look so we had then, you know. Over 400,000 say house. We now have two hundred and eighty thousand stars were producing 3.2 million pigs were now produce and 5.3 million pigs and going from 200,000 tons of pork to 400,000 kind of pork. So so that has been the evolution even / the years. The greatest change has been the loss of producers because we're going from 40,000 to 900. Wow, yeah in that time so so that's been yeah, the evolutions been like that and the producers who are left, you know own more and more of the sounds and more and more production. And as your way there are two producers that's Rivoli and Son pork Farms who produce about 36 38 percent of Australia's pork for those two companies and there's probably 60 or so producers who produce 80 Maybe 90% of the poor so that how its evolved sort of critical. Milestone dates one was 1965 when intense vacation of the Australian industry began with a business established in Bendigo and Victoria in 71 that add 2,000 South. So I think Australia was ahead of the USA even in going to Big herd sizes and integration and USA. Has followed a similar pattern to that. So that's how it changed. We saw productivity continue to increase the next real Milestone was probably 1990 when the federal government allowed Imports a frozen pork from Canada. Yeah, so and so frozen pork started the come in then and so it went from zero in 1992 about Hundred and eighty a hundred ninety thousand ton to Danny. Okay. So change a change the industry it took out a lot of the use of Australian pigs for ham and bacon manufacture. Yes. However, our industry used to be driven by the summer Christmas period a bit like yours when there was a big demand for hams. And so we see price go up and then it fall down back in the February March the following year now Australia's It's pretty much relied on the fresh meat Mar trying to producers and that price or that cyclical nature in the industry of prices. It's pretty much disappeared. And so yeah, and they've shown you can certainly make a very good money out of just supplying fresh meat to the Australian population. You know now our consumption Nepal, you know, the capital is about 27 kilograms a higher than the USA, but the Is a lot of it imported. So we produced USDA leaves Australia is in the top 10 exporters and importers of pork. So we've got 400,000 production and six hundred thousand ton consumption. And so it's a big import Gap there Marcia interesting and so well over the evolution of that time the other I think critical step was the commencement of the pork. Our study in 2005 because of brevet. Wow, it Revitalize research and has changed the industry since then and then the next Milestone most recent one was 2010 2010 to 2015 which was the move from you know, sales tools for pregnant sows to group housing that was a revolution and its it took about six years to complete but now we are 85 86 percent of the sale. Australia group that weaning or five days after the wounds and that made a big difference to price and demand as well. So what we're seeing is a small unit holders becoming bigger and bigger like the as less than 900 producers now and what I did notice is just continual and it is gradual but continual Improvement in productivity and efficiency a lot of that's good management and the rest is Introduction of new technologies which you know just become part of what we do after a while. So that's how the industry has changed from a sideline business. It's a very specialized business and a lot of innovation by especially the bigger companies. If you look at the products that you know, they're fully integrated feedmill genetics processing and then valuated product. So they have, you know, retail ready product both River Lea. Some pork and others and ended development and progress in those Marcia has just been amazing over the last five years a lot of credit for though to those companies are doing it on their own and being very successful. Very nice. And I think I remember your saying that a big part of the park CRC was also training a lot of very good people to the industries. They are right? Yeah a lot of yeah, we were both pork crc's trained a lot of people I think oh, but II c RC. I think there's 24 postgraduates that were trained by the pork soucy or you know in companies by the pork CRC and are now employed in the industry. So it was quite amazing. Really? Yeah, and you know the books Arc introduced Innovation such as the industry placement program where a company would apply for post graduate or graduate and porks our see would cover so much of the first two years employment provided they employed in from Minima three years and I'd say 90% of the people have taken that up if state with the companies or probably more important even moved on to other companies. Yeah, so it made a big difference. Interesting what what if you can comment on the genetic, you know, I don't want an Australia stopped importing genetics was if you can comment on that. Yeah, so I remember when I was at River lay, so I startled bunge. That's how I started there in 1988 and sometime between there and 95 we had imported everyone had Imported genetics in that proceeding years the few years preceding that a lot of do rocks a lot of large white different land land raised come in and I think it must have stopped in the mid. I mean early to mid-90s Marcio you have the they put a ban on importing pigs or semen. So it was that long ago. It was a long time ago since we've had Import in genetics, but if you look at the progress that And we see it through benchmarking projects. The progress in reproduction feed efficiency is still been tremendous. And even if you look at your progress in the u.s. If you look at over 10 years, it's tremendous and you divide it by 10. It seems slow but it's cumulative. Yeah, so so we continue to see improvements in productivity. So I think there was a lot of concern about you know, Lack of competitiveness in genetics, but of course with diseases like purrs and ASF around it's a balancing act and I think we're making good enough progress to be and the best producers here a very good, you know, then they're winning 2627 pigs for sale be a year and a very good business people and we're going to see more of that happen as the industry continues to contract and the better. Later will be owning and running in the industries that goes forward to. Interesting and can you comment shortly on the whole ASF? You know, you guys are very close to the whole situation if you have some comments on that on recent movements there in the industry. Yeah. Well, you know that everyone's watch the progress of isaf in Australia quite closely and then now, you know the lightest Formation was in Timor, which is about 750 kilometers from Northern Australia. So what we've seen what I've seen because I haven't been directly involved in it's just a lot of activity and by the federal government the federal government taking a very seriously so, you know as a lot more border controls at airports, but Australian pork limited, which is the policy body for the Australian pork industry have done a great job in in putting teams together preparedness and everyone's following things. Like you know, what we're seeing come out of America are on practice runs at it. So it's top-of-mind for everyone and I think the people who are going to be responsible for doing whatever they can to ensure. It doesn't interest Rhea are doing a very good job. I see at the moment most. Oh, it's very they're very active and very proactive. So so everyone's monitoring The interest I know individual producers, you know extremely Markley enhance their biosecurity and looking at where gaps exist in at the moment. So a lot of activity and a lot of concern Interesting. Now that makes sense. Where do you see the Australian pork industry going in the next 10 years Roger and well, it's we now know from past experience that there is a yeah, there's a sort of a set supply-demand point at which prices begin to collapse and we saw it in 2007 17 prices. Max tell you about pretty much over amongst from $3 idea kilogram down to two 4228 kilogram. It couldn't sell a pig for a while. So where is the opportunity in the next 10 years? Well, there are two opportunities one is in export markets. We already export about 10% of our production. So even our production Sound small, but we have a small population and I think that can and will grow we still don't have Have an agreement with China for exporter pork China in the next 10 years. I imagine that'll be achieved we see in continued productivity. Australia is very different from a lot of the rest of the world in terms of extreme extremely high welfare, welfare is always on top of mine disease status at the moment. Excellent, but the other big Market is to replace those Imports, you know that's equivalent to about Three million pigs. So the potential for growth is to go from five million to seven to potentially 8 million. So over the next 10 years depending on depending on how they can manage their cost and develop relationships with manufacturers. This industry has tremendous potential, you know to grow in size by 2030. Percent and I'm talking sustainably. So there are the two big opportunities. It's one is replacing Imports and the other is increasing exports and and increasing domestic demand. So so it can be very profitable what I'm seeing in 10 years is again further contraction. So you'll now see me you'll see what you might call smaller operations two or three thousand. Sal's will take opportunities when their And to actually grow by procurement, you know, though by other businesses, the big businesses will continue to develop develop don't products are very Innovative. And so in 10 years, I see a bigger industry heck of a lot more efficient. There's now we have 280 thousand thousand our to produce, you know, 5 million pigs or four hundred thousand ton of pork probably get down to 210 thousand for that amount. Or 280 ER to grow the grower production and the Business by I think 20-30 percent and that's so I see a vibrant business in 10 years much more even more productive than it is now, but with different Market opportunities than we're currently limited really fresh pork at the moment. So I think we'll be doing more manufacturing more export and and It should be very successful and they may be dips and you know dips and highs in that period but the future looks pretty good for this industry. That's great. That's that's very exciting. As we change gears a little bit of Roger in transition should into the research side of things. Yeah. Why do you see as the top three Recent research outcomes, that would be of global interest. Okay, so I think the first one at the moment Marcio is Is what's been called and call it what you want but this single diet concept we seem to revisit this every six or seven years but is increasing evidence and a seen it from Australia. There's a recent project just finish with April the company who replaced pork CRC suggesting that rather than saying have five phases from 20 kilogram 210 kilogram. You can actually save costs without affecting performance by just using one died that might be formulated for a pig at 70 75 kilogram that fed all the way from 25 220. Yeah, very convincing evidence and even look back through the literature. That mostly is a compensation response to a Restriction at some point in life, but the real message. I see from that at the moment is that you make that you need to make sure you finish your diets are adequate and paid less attention to the diets for the younger pigs. That's a message that's coming out of all this research. Right. That's that's very cool number of seen that I think the list three studies right recently on that. Yeah, there's been there's a one that's going to be presented at apps are in November this year from Karen Moore was in from Western Australia now, I haven't seen any details about that sore summary and that and what it was saying is that they reduced feed cost without changing performance at all by you know, 12 to 15. It wow, that's hard to believe but let's wait and see the Bateman but the potential there, you know, if you think it logistically and cost why is is massive. That's a big gap, but that's the one that's got my most interest at the moment. It has Global implications. So November December, we're going to know a lot more about that. But I've been following the literature on it and it sort of makes sense. Yeah actually makes sense. Let's wait and see but would be a game changer. Yeah, I mean it for sure says that we don't need we don't need six to eight diets right in the finishing. Right? And the other thing is, you know one diet is one thing right in Australia, but maybe other countries I know us has done some recent studies on that as well. And because the pig is so much heavier. Yes. I'm not gonna be. Oh, yeah, maybe true diets or three but we definitely don't need us. Straight diets. It sounds like right. Yeah. Yeah, I think you're dead ride is it depends on the weight? I think it can only take 210 kilogram you get away with maybe one day maybe but for the others you may not need, you know, the first four diets may use one diet there and ended partly deficient diet because the pigs were everything's look like the pigs will catch up, you know, once a 90 kilogram any rate going for 230. So yeah, right. Right, so just simple would simplify the whole, you know, feed manufacturing delivery process which you know in big systems is a real pain is very hard to get right. Yeah, right Finn middle managers will be happy. Yeah, that's right. So there so keep an eye on that one. The other one is this iguana linic acetic acid GAA, which is the precursor to Creatinine in the research. I've seen included in diets and about a kilogram at ton and very significant improvements in finish a pig feed efficiency and more recent report just came out of the Netherlands this year and a bargaining and showing improvements in survivability and and number of animals born in if it's in through gestation and poultry. We researched very recent poultry research and pork research showing that it has a big effect that produces ATP in muscle creatinine on energy is that status or homers status in the muscle and Reporting quite large effects on meat quality. So I think it's interesting. I think it's something that we've overlooked. It's It's not you but I don't think it's been investigated thoroughly enough. I think it has a I think it could have a big role in in Finisher nutrition and eating quality interest. Yeah, check that out. Not not yeah. Yeah, it's very interesting want to follow to have a look at it - yeah, it's more interesting it and a lot of research in 2018 2019 all showing pretty positive effects my third. One and again, this is a Back to the Future in summary spec because I'm member working with Rob Musa on this when I was at bunge, but is L-Carnitine in these, you know more prolific sales L-Carnitine in gestation again, I think it's what hundred hundred twenty five parts per million recent evidence showing effects on you know, birth weight and piglet. Bible which is yeah become a bit of an issue is, you know, getting pigs more pigs to survive and do better in lactation and there's enough evidence coming out there. Now saying that L carnitine is worth revisiting in probably it's right through gestation and maybe lactation. So then by three Hot Topics at the moment interesting. Yeah the kind of tune. Yeah that right around that. That why does that early 90s baby? Yeah, that's the early 90s and Rob was working with our seen bunge on it. But member litter size back then was about nine and a half, right? Yeah, so the pigs were born pretty big. Anyway. Yeah. So now it's 50. Yeah, the the fat on board for those was was actually from the additives as actually one of those that are were very very interesting, right? Yeah, very Very interesting. I remember all that activity at the time but it's just interesting that you then see like three Publications in a row showing positive effects. Now, they're always you know it but if you're saying what am I going to try commercially or as a research and those three areas, I've coveted those where I'd be investing some time at the moment depends on what your constraints and they were different with businesses and countries. But yeah, there there my three top picks at the moment. Very interesting very good. So with that anything else before we move to the three questions we ask every guest. I think Ali one other thing in that time. I've been in the industry and research is with I've seen the shift in you know, research power. You know, who's dominated the research Arena. So back in the 70s when I started right through the end of the 80s, I think was or maybe mid 80s. It was really the British, you know, they would loaded with smart people and And most of us dry and research and influence was from British nutrition as British reproduction S. I think in the late 80s to the maybe the midnight is astray actually became one of the top research and maybe the top certainly in nutrition in the world and since then and since the end of the 90s, it's very much been owning the USA. So you've seen this shift in influence in the research over that time and it's going to UK Australia bitter Europe, but now I think very much u.s. Space so quite interesting and so once we never looked at to the US for technical Innovation, and when I first went there in a workday 8687 there really wasn't much happening except that the highest level of research technological stuff, you know, Gene manipulation in that but nothing that nothing at really Commercial practical level now. It's all at that level so we know just an amazing shift over time. That's interesting. And I think you know one of the things that probably played a big role on that was the addition of this large commercial commercial Farms right? Research Farms. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think you're right. So the first large commercial research Farm in Australia was established when I was at bunge. Interesting. Yeah, that's when it first started. So we established that and it's grown since then son pork have their own now that your ride in America was really the revolution of the American industry was two or three sides production welding from the somewhat of a backyard industry to you know, globally Progressive because they'll allow though. They expanded Sounders it started Contracting, you know, just Is Chimes American industry has moved to three site production and then like you're saying every all of the big herds over there now have their own research facility. So you can actually get large numbers. You may be a small trial at Illinois and then go and validate it at mashups. You know, that's that's how much it's changed. Yeah, right, and I think that that would be an interesting one force for some of the other countries, you know, I don't see See as much of that in many other countries. I know Canada's got several Europe and not extremely contact with Europe, but I know in South America that you cannot it's less than then a couple, you know, yeah. So the I think that's that'll be a good one for for some of the other Industries catch up to to have very very applied decisions there. Yeah, and then you do the that's right so they can validate. Stuff that comes out of the universities but when visiting the bigger producer in the US they do a lot of internal trials, you know addressing the issues they can see on a you know on a day-to-day or an annual basis. So it allows you to get an answer quite quickly. Yeah, which you can't get if you just waiting around that's why. You know people like organization at KSU the pork CRC and that have that responsibility, you know to get that information out to producers who don't have those facilities and if it's a if it's actually generated from commercial facilities, I think it's uptake as even quicker. So that has been a big change is development and use of commercial facilities are there would be no reason To destroy Leah, if we didn't have those commercial facilities, very nice. Very good celebrating its 25th anniversary. Just all manufacturers the original Wireless Standalone swine feeding system designed by pork producers for pork producers. They are simple reliable and provide Peace of Mind 24 hours a day 7 days a week 365 days a year just stall is not just Manufacturing. I factored by an equipment company, but by a family pork production business with a slat level understanding just all always one step ahead in swine feeding. It is time to our famous. Says we move to the three questions that we ask every guest Roger every episode. Yeah. The first one is what's your favorite swine related book? Okay, so my favorites wine-related book and it's actually not a swine related book, but it's it's a book on mammalian protein metabolism by by a guy Munroe is published a long time ago, but it mainly with research with rat but a lot of the stuff we're discovering the and last 10 years is already covered in that in know there was a series of three books come out. So that was the one I have most all. Is relied on go to and the other one is the one I use almost everyday is nutrient requirements as wine by the NRC in 2012. So, okay. Yeah, it's very interesting are not are you tired all the time? I have every every book ever published on YouTube requirements of pigs. Yeah, because it's not only she had the the estimate to requirement which you know, may or may not Be solid but it gives you all the background information. So up to that date. It's probably the most up-to-date, you know reference you can go to so that's what I use almost everyday. NRC 2012. Yeah. Yep, very nice. Yeah, that one so important to have right? Yeah, you got to have it that's wrong. Very good. And what about in general Roger besides pigs want to be your favorite book? Okay, I think fiber books out of to and it's it's either the double helix, which is the book about Ian from Watson and Creek about the discovery of the structure DNA just enthralling reading on yeah personal interactions and competition to discover the structure of DNA. So it's well worth the read is not a long book but it gives you a feel for how these scientists worked and the conflicts are existed, you know within the different organizations at the time. They got you know, Nobel Prize for it as well. So the other the other book that Is along similar lines is brighter than a thousand suns about the development of the atomic bomb in in the u.s. Well, really a fusion but led to the development of atomic bomb again. It's just the personal interactions and conflict, you know an Ethics that was going on at the point plus the devel, you know, the development of that bomb. So just tremendous reading you won't put him down interesting. Yeah. I heard about the double helix, but I don't think I heard about that one. That's that's interesting. Very good and the last question Rogers in your opinion what separates successful swine professionals from those that are not? I think there's probably lots of things and there's lots of good swine professional but I think the thing that helps create success is is the more knowledge you have of the biology and and the business so what how your research or research or read and see fits in to the business of pork production to affect outcomes, you know, and not doing anything and isolation. That's what I've always found. Brightest thing is I know that this is what happens and this is the implications if you know, you shouldn't really be doing that because biologically it's not kind of work even though you think of my the second one would be second one would be, you know, certainly having a good Network. So if you don't know I think you know who to contact and my third one third one would be on you're willing or people's willingness to challenge the status quo is without doing that. Nothing really changes, right? So you have to use you know, why you think to say well why the heck are we doing that? Right? Why? Yeah, that's be a better way of doing that and that's what leads to Innovation and good research, you know, well directed research. Yeah. Nice for the three traits or strengths will usually be successful. Yeah interesting. Yeah challenge of the book right? Just just yeah challenge the book. I mean, I've seen the books on nutrition re-written because someone challenged it. That's right. And that happened back in the 80s the whole new concept of energy protein malnutrition there, but it wouldn't have happened if I didn't Challenge and and there's you know, that's people are all Always doing that but it often you can just get bogged down into making sure you keep the engine to you know, actually see a new could make it run a bit better. Yeah, and and I think the single diet concept that you talked about. It is a good as illustration right of that challenging the status quo right there. It's a good illustration. And I know in the re previous research in Australia on it that it scared or worried most - yeah, and it was never really tested on a large scale, but I think we might see it tested on a large scale in the near future. Very nice. Very good. Roger really really safe for as always always always enjoy chatting with you and really appreciate your time today. It's a pleasure in Moscow. So I wish you all the best and look forward to catching up with her in not-too-distant future.
Today’s episode will cover the Evolution of the Australian pork industry and research of global interest. “The single diet concept suggests that rather than having 5 phases from 20- to 110-kg, you can actually save costs without affecting performance just using 1 diet that might be formulated for a pig at 70- to 77-kg but fed all the way through.” – Dr. Roger Campbell. Our guest is Dr. Roger Campbell, another bright mind of the Global Swine Industry. Dr. Campbell got his Ph.D. in 1973 in Nutrition and Physiology from the University of Melbourne. After that, he worked for a large integrator in Australia. From 2005 to 2018, he led the Pork CRC as their CEO with hundreds of experiments conducted and dozens of students trained. Recently, Roger opened his own consulting business named RG Campbell Advisory. What you will learn:   The development of his career;  The evolution of the Australian pork industry (students, genetic importing, ASF);   The Australian pork industry in the next 10 years;   Recent research outcomes of global interest;   What separates successful swine professionals from those that are not. Roger’s favorite swine-related book: Mammalian protein metabolism and NRC (2012) Roger’s favorite book unrelated to swine: Double helix and Brighter than a thousand suns Edited by Lauro Faccin 