Just wanted to take a brief moment to give you guys a little idea how we do it here at paddle and fin podcast. We use the anchor dot f m-- recording platform super easy distributes our podcast too many many different platforms. There's creation tools to allowed you to record and edit podcast right from your phone or a computer check out anchor dot f m orDownload the free anchor app to get started. Welcome. Hello, and welcome back to the paddle and fin podcast. I'm Brian. This is rickets. And tonight you guys. We are bringing you one Epic guest he's part of the bona fide kayak Team part of the yak attack team. Actually. He's the owner of yak attack and bona fide. We got Luther Cyprus with us tonight, true innovator in the sport, and we're super excited to sit down and chat with him. So Luther welcome to the show. Hey, what's happening guys? Thanks. Me on yeah, absolutely man. Absolutely. So like we start with all our guests and I think this is going to be an interesting one. How did you get into the kayak fishing world? Well, I've been fishing Mama pretty much my whole life since I was a kid and I had a buddy that basically we used to go. We had a bunch of guys that we used to get together go to the Outer Banks once a year kind of a you know guys are tree just get away from everything, you know fish for a few days and one of the things we would always try to do at least one night is go shark fishing. Okay, so, you know, it was early on it was the piers and then some of the peers didn't allow that so We started from the serve but one of my buddies, you know through forums back then this is like 2006-7 somewhere in there. It's all that a lot of guys were using kayaks to get baits out. Okay, so he picked up a ho be out back in right before one of our trips and we went out there and we used it to drop some baits, you know, it was cool. Everybody ended up taking it out on the ocean and playing around it. Nobody really fished out of it, you know at the time. it was obvious that you could fish out of it, but it wasn't the purpose that it was really bought for and we didn't really know that there was a thing called kayak fishing but a couple of years later maybe a year later that same buddy calls me up and he's like, hey, man, you remember that that kayak that I got and I'm like, yeah, he's like Well turns out there's a there's a kayak fishing club nearby and you know start official emits a lot of fun, you know you really ought to do To get a boat and this is you know, it's my buddy Bob and Bob's done a lot of different things. He's a you know, he's got a lot of experience a lot of different things he had before that, you know scuba diving. He's the dirt bike shoes that a bunch of different stuff and I you know financially and otherwise I couldn't keep up with all that, you know what I mean? So, you know, it's the same thing with Scooby's like, you know, you should check this out which I'd love to get into one day. You know, it's a super cool thing to me, but I you know No, I already love fishing sure and it was an easy sell. I was like, you know what this looks this looks cool, you know, so I went and bought a kayak for about next River Company and a couple weeks later. We went out and and fish and Chesapeake Bay caught a couple of fish and you know, I decided really after the first fish that I was going to get my son one. Okay, he was probably 14 ish at the time something like that 1314, so I got him one. We started catfishing and that's kind of how it all started. Very cool man. Very cool. How many kids do you have by the way, I've three 3 two daughters and a son then. Yep. Okay. We're I will touch base on this later, but I just watched the yak attack Vlog last night and I definitely wanted to talk talk with you about that because I thought that was really cool. And you know your it was your daughter that kind of did the whole Vlog, right? Yeah scenario. She she did an incredible job man in it seems like it is are all your kids involved in yak attack and bona fide or they all kind of just doing their own thing. Well, it's a you know, it's a family affair in that, you know, I was on the phone with my son for a half hour tonight and you know, it's always a topic, you know what I mean? So it's a family affair in that respect Tyler. He went to Virginia Tech and and got his industrial engineering degree and he's been In the last few years working in turning and now working for some of the kind of Fortune 500, you know larger companies to gain experience. You know, one thing is Tyler is a lot like tolerance and re actually they have pretty much a mirror images of my personality type. Okay. We're very independent. Okay, so, you know tellers out there so it is those doing this thing learning, you know. No, you know I think working when you're super independent like that working for a parent, especially when you're younger. It doesn't even you know, instead. Are you told me this was that she's like actually is a good story. So, you know the kids I was like, well I can either you know pay them like a minimum wage or whatever they're worth of the time sure this employees or I could pay him a little bit more and teach them to be responsible. For simulator and things like, you know their own expenses, you know, you know things that they wanted but didn't need you. Yeah, so opted to pay them a little bit more at the time than they were worth it then they really deserve but at the same time expected more of them at home, you know, as far as their personal finances and she told me one day she said just she said I want to get a job and I said you have a job. She's I want to get a different job and I was like, okay why she's like well working for you it does it feel like a real job. I'm like why not? She's like, well, we don't really get in trouble if we don't come to work or not. And you know, we know that you're always going to be ok with whatever we do. It's just like an honestly you pay us too much and I was like, I could fix all of that right now. Yeah. Tired of production many and I honestly appreciated that I mean yeah here she was and what she was saying and it's a conversation Tower and I've had as well is I want to be responsible for something. You know, I want to make my own way. I want to feel like I'm deserve what I get and I want to I want to work for something and I want to know that if I accomplished something it's because of what I did not because of who I am sure and you know, they were pretty young at the time. Maybe they've been helping since they were little little Kids, but it's set that tone for how it's been ever since, you know eye doctor paid other what they were worth and I said you don't report to me anymore because I just hired a production manager. I'm like you report to Danny and after that did he manage their schedule? He managed them because that's how I really should have been at that point and that's how it's been ever since so, you know, so Tyler he's doing his own thing Cindy. Issues working in marketing. Okay, you know interesting story how she how she got that opportunity but and then Taya she's working in manufacturing and she's been all over the place shipping and assembly and you know packaging different things like that. But you know, they all have you know for the two girls that work within the company they each have their own goals and Ambitions Tay is pursuing different things in life. She's not like ready to say. A I'm going to devote all of my energy to try to create a career or particularly a career with us. It's something she enjoys doing she does but she's very musically gifted. She's got other priorities and other thing that she's working on. I'm fine with that. I don't push him one way or another as long as they're living good lives and you know that kind of stuff but Siddharth, I don't know if you well you I'm sure you have noticed the new packaging over the last couple of years. Yeah. So what happened was we invested a lot of money. In a consulting company to come in and give us a concept on packaging they're going to redesign our packaging for us. And I mean, we paid them a lot of money and they came with nothing useful. We didn't eat nothing not a single logo not a single package nothing and we're like, well there goes that you know, we're small business. I mean, we don't exactly have a big pile to go, you know get more from so like well there goes that this will have to wait till next year and so Daria at the time semi committed to work, you know what I mean 17, I guess at the time and you know did a fine job but not not overly committed not overly serious about it and she came to me one day and said hey, do you mind if I play around with the packaging? She's like, I've got some ideas on that. Yeah, that'd be fine. So I taught her any even she had learned it when she was little but it kind of forgotten it but I taught her to evening how to use the design software that we use for products has this functionality called sheet metal, you know, how you can fold sheet metal up in many things. Well, that's how you can make in that software. You can design cardboard. Okay the same way so you lay it out flat you cut it out and then you can fold it up and make boxes or whatever. So we taught her how to use That and try to have used their little laser that we do the engraving on the bottle openers with okay and just it just left her alone for like a month in came and she came you know, and I knew she was tinkering, you know, I thought it was good for her. I didn't have high expectations, but she came back and she was like, I want to show you guys what I've got and John hipster and I looked at it real light. Yeah, buddy, you know, I think at the time She's making nine bucks an hour and she did all of that on on her. I mean coordinated with the vendors with the graphic artist, you know, she did all the mechanical design and then after she was done with that project. We really like it was that she had the you know, it's good that she had the skill to do that, but it was more that she was able to manage it. Yeah managed to create a result. That's what you're looking for. And it would handle that is if I leave you with a certain amount of resources. Can you create a result at the end? So that that her doing that takes that initiative earned her an opportunity in our marketing department where she's growing really rapidly. The Vlogs is a fun thing for her to do but sure look behind the scenes, you know tremendous amount of the social media marketing, you know, she's kind of John's right-hand lady, I guess not sure my right-hand man, but and a lot of the visual stuff that you see for be akattak Suvari works on and then a lot of the visual stuff you see it. I defied she works with Justin Floyd. I'm not sure if you guys met Justin or not. But yeah extremely talented. He's the guy who did The Limited Editions? Okay. But anyway, so yeah, it's it's a it's a family affair and two of the kids work in the business, but it's always you know, it's kind of like It's like the old truck that everybody loves, you know, I mean like not everybody does it but everybody loves it. Yeah, I take that man. I could just tell by watching that Vlog and I was like as I was watching it last night. I'm like man, I got to bring this up tomorrow night with Luther's, you know, your daughter as she was going through she was talking about all the new products and stuff and I'm like, I wonder if she works there because I mean she really knew her stuff. She presented herself. Well, like, you know, I think that's cool man. I mean, you know working. Family, it's like you were talking about it, you know your daughter brought it up that you know, she would you know, quote-unquote like take advantage of you right because she knew you were dad. You were going to let things slide and things like that and I remember back in I was probably 19 years old and I work for my father for a while and you know, I was pulling the same stuff, you know, and it was It was kind of the same deal like it didn't feel like a job. So as you were describing that I'm like having flashbacks and You know, I get it man, but I think it's very cool that you know, and I will say that to just from all the people. I've met from bona fide. I think John hipsters the only one I've met from yak attack, but you know, it's a very family orientated company and I did that and you know, not only that but let's face it. It's made in the USA. I mean what's better than that? So I think that's very cool. Very cool. So but yeah, let's talk some of the new products that came out for I cast so you want to start with yak attack first. I know Rick it is over there shaking in his chair wanting to talk to you about camera arms. So man. I've been waiting like, you know, the ram everybody has the ram boom mounts and stuff. I'm like, I didn't want any of that. I was waiting for your product and I'm like God, please Luther because I need some for the blue sky. I'm like, please dude. Please come out with it this year and then you announce it and I was like kissing. Dude on the mouth now. Thank you so much. Well, I'm gonna take that one. He had the boom stick back when we were working with ram. Yeah, and you know, it was pretty good product. There were some issues with a little bit heavy. Yep. It's a little bit cumbersome to disconnect from the base, you know things like reorienting it rotating it. We're sure be difficult and a little bit too flexible. So, you know, we looked at all of that. We said, you know, let's we had had a good concept there. But let's just do a better execution. That's one of the cool things in the last two or three years of really only selling products that we make and we have control over is we can design whatever we want right you got to meet so we can make it the way we want it and you know go into it. We went to an aluminum tube, so you To have like a PVC tube went to the aluminum tubes like a lot lighter like thinner lot stiffer at the same time. You know that Lock and Load base was just begging to have a camera mount put on it. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. You know, she made some adapters to make that fit and then we tooled up, you know, we looked at and we must have looked at a dozen different types of hammerheads. But you know, you look at most high-end tripods or anything else. It's just hard to be a ball. Yeah, right. So we you know, we tooled up a ball for that now we're super excited about it man. It's brought back the pan fish brought back panfish portrait and brought back to Boomstick and I would say all three are better versions of themselves. Okay? And yeah, we're John's been cheating on me for over a year that we need to get camera mounts out. But we had a lot of other stuff that we had to do as well. But I'm glad glad we finally got those those on. Market, yeah, I know. A lot of people are excited about it. I know the other day I was down at the shop and my man Travis there was on the phone with the akattak ordering some items up and I was like, you know, see if they got any camera arms. I need a camera arm and he's like shut up. I'm trying to talk to this person and he gets off the phone. He's like not till January. I'm like man come on, you know, I was like in a car. I talked to Rick it's that night, too. And I was like, yeah, man, you wait until January bro. Sorry, but no it's super exciting but not only that you guys came out with some some rod holders and stuff like that for like inflatable sups John boats things like that. You want to touch on that a little bit? Yes. I mean, you know if you look at the way that accessories got to paddle Sports, you know, we we started from kayak fishing and you know built products and then they were other companies that had products in the Marine, you know, John Buck type in this tree that were easily migrated into paddle Sports and in the kayak fishing so, you know, they are very similar and the kind of stuff that you need while you're out there on the water and what we're doing is organizing and mounting and holding and attaching Things so very similar things on boats are on kayak. So, you know, we took a look at what was out there on the johnboat side the bass boat side the inflatable sad as far as the application as far as unsub unmet needs that that you know, we thought there were and and in some cases like for the Inflatables it was more about just a lot of people requesting, you know, they're they're they're glue on It's out there but people you know, they really like the that new Mighty mounts which you know, the the the tracks in the body mounts that kind of stuff. So, you know for the Inflatables, it was easy. We see the glue on Mount that we can attach a mighty Mount switch to and then you could put anything yak attack on it. And for the boats, it was cool that said of the skiff right now, but what we what we did there is basically attach them deer tracks and you know rigged up. Same types of things that we would use on kayaks that no doubt that as we get more and more immersed in that market. The customer is going to tell us what they want sure change and you know as a you know, a product developer and as a manufacturer, sometimes the hardest part is knowing which problem to solve as opposed to actually solving it. I think we you know, we've got a team that's very strong problem solvers, but you kind of have to get immersed in those markets where out and you know, Central Virginia or in the case of A bona fide Western South Carolina, you know, we don't run around a lot on skips out here, you know, so well as we get into it will find some reasons to hit the coast and you know do some of that ye also we will build a community of people, you know, and through that know all of the right problems to solve but honestly, the offering that we have right now is immediately relevant on the jon boat side. I mean, I've been fishing out of Jon Boat since I was a kid sure, you know, we - would happen in you know, mm early two thousand teens, like maybe two thousand eleven twelve thirteen all of a sudden all these jumbo manufacturers come out with these extruded gunnels that have tracks built into them, but they're kind of turned the wrong way for the type of stuff that we make in four years and years and years people have tried to use the carriage bolts that they were designed for with the carriage bolts. Like by the time they powder coated the boat. They don't slide very well, okay, or you know adapting all these Different things in the easiest way to put a t-bolt into those tracks is basically to put the head of the T bolt in and then turn it so that it's Crossways so it won't come back out. Okay. Well the problem with that is once you loosen the device of try to slide it back and forth it will pop right out because once it's loose the t-bolt can rotate back in come out the way it went in right and you know, we're looking at that and going. Oh, let's just hold it in that position. You know, we already need a mount, you know that goes on the After you put the team on the track, we need a mount that goes on in. Anyway, what if we make that capture the headed of the T bolt in that angled position and then you can loosen it up slide it all up and down the boat whatever you want to do and there's no way for it to come out. So that's what we took out there, you know how to track her boat out there and took that solution out there, you know something that we've that we thought of patent on I think it's the best solution for those type tracks. That's that's on the market right now, so Yeah, it was cool man. It was a combination of taking things that we already had that just made a lot of sense for those environments. But then you know attaching things to watercraft is is what we do. So looking at those watercraft looking at the features that were already there. And what's the best way we can interface with them. That was a lot of fun for our team. Yeah. I bet man. So I mean was that a vision to get into the bigger boat stuff or it was just a demand basically is what you're saying, right? It's a little bit of both. I mean we've seen people We'll cross it over yak attack stuff to all kinds of articles for several years now. Okay, but I mean at the end of the day, you know, we love kayak fishing. But we're about manufacturing. Yeah, you know what? I mean? We're the the purpose for yak. Attack is to serve a customer base. No doubt about that. But the other purpose the purpose the thing that makes it really, you know near and dear to me and to a lot of people there is to create opportunities for Americans to do something, you know to do something cool and to learn to build and you know, the things that That we do to me. They're important. You know, we can't just be we can't just be consumers. Yeah, right, you know we lose we lose their manufacturing skill set. We lose the ability to innovate, you know, we get we race to the bottom on everything and we export everything we do it or is it rather import everything at some point? I don't think that's a sustainable model, right, you know manufacturing literally in the environment that manufacturing created the people in manufacturing the mentality in manufacturing. It literally changed the course of my life sure, and I'm not just talking about starting these companies. I'm talking about being a 19 year old kid that was completely on the wrong path and kind of mentored towards realizing my Full Potential from being immersed in that environment. That's kind of important work. Yeah. So how do we grow that how do we do more manufacturing? How do we fill up the 68,000 square feet that we just landed? And in Farmville, Virginia, you know, so yeah. This is a definitely a logical step for us in every, you know, every possible way of looking at it and it's still fishing. Yeah, you know to me it's just something I love to do. That's very made. So as a manufacturer how hard is it to keep things in the US everybody Imports seems like and you're very I want everything to be here in on our soil. I mean that's got to be challenging at times right man. I would I would put it to you like this. It's not easy, you know, it's not easy to do anything until you get good at doing it. And I think what would happens these days there's a conventional route, you know, there's the beaten path and people tend to flock towards that beaten path because that quote unquote that's how it's done. Sure. So I think for a lot of companies, it's very challenging to do it in the US and for us in the beginning it was in some ways. It is challenging because competing on price could be tough. But you know at the same time we've gotten really good at it. You know, we can build tooling cheaper than you can get it in China we can do it way faster, you know, we've got employees that really care about what they're doing, you know a if you look at you know, Bona fides two years on the market is starting to gain the same reputation, but let's look at yak attack has been around for 10 years. I mean, you know, our strongest asset is our relationship with our with With our customers whether it's a dealer's of the community, it's almost as important as the products. They know who we are. They know what we're doing. They know we're going to stand behind it. We've got a reputation for doing things a certain way if we have been letting someone else control quality and let someone else control manufacturing and you know bring in stuff over here and just being basically we're Hauser's and Distributors, you know, it's not that there's anything wrong with that but we would have built a very different kind of company. Sure. Let's let's touch on that for a second because You yourself is being the owner president of these two companies. You are very social media active. All right there talking to your customers your I mean no offense to EJ. You don't see Eric Jackson getting on the the Jackson owners Forum, you know replying to customers or you know, just just a random guy. You know it I think that's cool and that says a lot about you and your company Beneath right because that was one thing I wanted to bring up tonight with you was it's I think it's astounding like you already have so much on your plate run into huge companies in the kayak fishing world, but yet you're still on these social media platforms real replying to people was that like an intention or is that just something you do just to just to do it now? I mean in you know, I think actually I think Jackson particularly just you know that Hence there a lot. They're very, you know, kind of engaged connected the community as well. And that's I think really around the sport. There's a lot of companies that that do that I think people see us as it being different because I'm the owner of the company, but in this kit in this case, the company's owned by like regular people that we're not we're not owned by giant Corporation and honestly, it's the same thing with with Jack. Is the same thing with new canoe, you know, there's a lot of small businesses in this and you'll see, you know, you'll see Blake from from new canoe, you know answering questions to do things like that to and and there's activity. So, you know, I think it's just You know, if you if you realize who you work for is just what you have to do when you're as small as we are and I say a small but we're very clear. There's not many steps from a customer to me. Yeah, right. Hey and if a ball gets dropped at one of those or if my own employees are you know other team members are so busy with something that they miss something and we don't know man. I we can't afford to let a customer set there hanging, you know, so. I feel like it's an important part of the job. But the other thing is it keeps me in case my finger on the pulse of what's going on. You know, we can never forget who we work for and who we serve and you know, pretty soon when we're making our own plans based on our own, you know, priorities and needs and whatever and forget about the customer that don't work. Yeah, so sure. No, I I want to stay engaged because I don't think I can make great decisions about how to move these companies forward without really having a finger on the pulse. That's nice. Yeah. I know. I mean kudos to you man. Cuz yeah, I mean, I think that's just it, you know, you're out there interacting. So you're seeing the feedback coming from you know, people that are buying your products and I think you're taking that back home to yak attack and bona fide and then and then bettering the prod products, you know, it's I think it says a lot I mean, yeah, you know, I know you say you're a small company, but it it's cool when you see the owner of these companies reaching out. I buy no way was trying to knock EJ or anybody. I don't know but I know EJ's got people that do reach out from Jackson on those forums and stuff. But I mean, you're the the president and CEO so it's a little different, you know, but I mean I get what you're saying I get where your car is gonna come at. I'm sure there will come a time and I don't know how we'll manage it, but there may come a time where you know, physically just can't do it. Yeah, I think for us it'll just be I'll have to do it a little bit less or I'll just have to say that there's a half hour of each day in the evening that I'd just dedicate to that, you know to make sure but like I said for me it's it's important because we're here to do a job. And you know, I need to make sure that people are taken care of but the other side is how do we make the right decisions to move it forward if we really don't know what our customer our customers, you know are responding or what kind of issues they're having or you know any of that. Sure now and you know what the other side of it? It's fun. Yeah. This is a cool Community. I mean talking about kayak fishing, you know talking about you know stuff that's going it's just it's fun. It's it, you know, you get into something like this because you love you know, you love fishing and you know, then you start kayak fishing like holy crap. This is the best form of fishing I've ever done. Yeah, and then you get to spend the rest of your career talking about it. It worked with people on it and you know that kind of stuff. It's great man. That's awesome. That's awesome. I dig it. Did you guys release anything else at at icast for yak attack to weren't you guys doing something with the Roto Grip or something? I thought maybe maybe now it's better now. That was it was it was mostly the boat mounts, you know, the there's a couple of new adapters for the Lock and Load system turned out a little bit more into your kind of Tinker Toys. So people can figure out different ways of doing different things, you know. Realized that you can't make a product that does everything but if you make the right system people can adapt it pretty well, but they need to have the parts to do it with sure. So you did there was some of that and there are some things that you know, we've got in the hopper at yak attack, but probably not anything major that anybody will see this year. Okay, very cool. Very cool. Boy, it's been kind of curious man. Like so you did some some offshore fishing shark fishing. How did you how did you go from just being an option or fisherman or just a recreational guy to I'm going to make my own kayak products, right so that there's a huge gap right there and I've always been curious about I mean, did you have something fail and you're like, I'm tired of this shit. I want something quality or was it more than that or um, it was kind of not so much heads of the veil, but it in done. It need me me and my buddy Bob, you know here in Virginia one of the things, you know, if you especially with your you know, just getting into it and you want somewhere where you can just go score a lot of fish. I mean schoolie stripers under bridge lights is how you get it done especially back then it's not quite as hot and how is it used to be but so we discovered that and we're going out and fishing the Hampton Roads bridge tunnel out, you know, Chesapeake Bay. A a kind of gets to Hampton area and you know, we're out there fishing and kayaks, but there's people running up and down the bridges and these power boats and you know, we're fishing at night, you know, because you're fishing lights and you know, it's like probably need a light on these things, you know to keep from getting run over the Coast Guard only requires you to in Virginia. You only have to have they called a handheld torch, you know flashlight basically sure, but we're like, you know be nice to have liked it's always up there kind of like you would have on a Jon Boat, so That it started with a need and it was basically a tektite dive light, you know back then the only thing that was on the market took I think two double a batteries you got about eight hours of burn time, which is barely two nights officiate not even two nights of fishing. So, you know, my buddy Bob I told you earlier that he had just gotten out of scuba diving. Well, he had a dive light from a company called Tecna tektite and basically it turned out that the OD of that dive light. It almost perfectly inside of a 3/4 inch PVC pipe, but it had a little like Square part on the side of the didn't fit. So we put it on a table saw cut a cut the groove where the square part would slide in and glued that light in the end of the PVC pipe and there's like, well, it doesn't look too good. So then we read out of one-inch pipe to go around it. So that it trimmed it out. Nice. It's like well, let's put the reflective tape on there, you know put a flag on it and then you know you go fishing. And the guys that the launcher like hey, man, where'd you get that? Zao made it. Okay. Make me can you make me want you know, and it's like literally every time for like three or four trips. It was like Hey, thank you come in pretty soon. I was like six or eight of them that we needed to make and I'm like dude if we're going to do this. We should just start it ll see, you know, and and see, you know, go ahead and make some of these and see if we could find some, you know, never intending for it to do much more than maybe support the habit or give us a reason to write off fishing trips or whatever, but You know it really took off. I mean we did that and started making these things. I called Scott it Scott melee at tektite to try to get pressure volume pricing on these lights and I was trying to get a good price, you know, it sounds wanting to give him some heavy heavy numbers. But I also the you know, so that was the devil on one shoulder the Angel and the other shoulder was like you better be honest with Scott, you know, so he's like how many of these do you think you're To sell and so I took my best middle-of-the-road guess I could and I was like, I think we can do a hundred. I think we'll sell a hundred of them this year. He's like, okay, so gave us a price and we ended up selling 800 of them. Oh crap. So then it was like wait a minute. There's actually a thing here, you know, and in the process of selling those number one, we found everything that was wrong with that product because if you're willing to listen to criticism, you know, it can really really help you sharpen, you know, sharpen your knife. I mean a lot of times customers complain in companies or individuals or whatever just get defensive sure. Not me customers complain that your opportunity. Yeah, he listened to the guys and I appreciate the vocal ones because they're saying what everybody else is thinking anyway, right? So we have some feedback that it was Heavy. We got some feedback that was hard to Stow. We got some, you know, just different feedback. You know, some people said it looked homemade. I'm like, yeah because it is yeah, you know, we had we had some a little bit of of money that we had made from because obviously we weren't paying ourselves anything so we took like six grand and put it into a mold to basically tulip the carbon Pro. Okay, and then the next year, you know, so that first year, I think we did in nineteen thousand dollars or something like that and the next year with the carbon Pro that really took all dealers to sort of respond. And then we did like 60, you know, so it was just like that. It was It was kind of and then about halfway through that next year. Bob had a you know a good paying job. It was starting to consume a lot of our time and we're getting paid for it. So he was like, hey, man, this has been fun. But you know, I'm not I don't want her to really go down this road and which was cool. You know, I totally respected that, you know, I bought him out, you know, it wasn't a lot of money back then but we looked at the revenue we were doing the money we're making and we came up with a fair deal. And you know, I looked at it after that. I'm like man. I think I think this could turn into a real business, but I knew it was a long road. But at the time I was I had a consulting company and I did design work for you know, all different companies so I could meet her my workload just based on how many projects that took so I started I talked to my wife. I was like, you know what I think I can turn this into something but we're going to have to live really modestly for a while. Actually that termite uses controlled starvation. Yeah, we're we're not going to starve, but it'll be on that border. Might feel like I'm reasonably sure we won't yeah. Yeah, it was like that and you know, she's you know, she's like, you know go for it, so That's that's kind of what it was like, you know, and especially with just me being in the business. It's yeah, that's one thing about you know, having partners investors. Whatever is you really worry about other people, you know, you don't worry about yourself as much as you worried about other people out of me. It's just, you know, you're going to be fine. So it was easy when it was just me then it was like, okay I can take the risk. I could stick my neck out I could do you know, whatever and and and that's what we did for those next couple of years and but you know, we shipped the first yeah. Attack product in January of 2009 that we sold we ship some samples before that but I think that's the first one we sold in I started taking a very modest salary in middle of 2013. I think it was so that's how long it took. I mean it was well, that's how it is in the meantime, you know running another company, which I like I said slowly was widdling that down. But every nickel we had extra winning the appetite because once a business starts growing then you have to feed it. Oh, yeah more equipment. You need a fixture you a piece of tool, you know, whatever it is. So, but anyway, that's how it started and then finally around take 2014-15. We just hit that critical mass where it was like, okay, we can make a decent living we still have very modestly, but, you know, we can make a decent living and I let go of the Consulting. And I've been doing this ever since nice all your yak attack products and bona fide boats started with one little light. That's pretty incredible the keep from getting ran over. Yeah, that's pretty incredible man. Absolute best success story. I think I've ever heard man. Yeah. That's it. It's phenomenal. No, I get it. I mean, I you know, I have a small business to and you know, it's I remember when I went to my wife and I was like look, I gotten laid off just because the economy was slow, you know, I'm in the trades and you know. Like you said, you know, you knew you were going to be all right, but you knew you were taking a risk going out on your own and it's you know, and then like you said man every dime you make just goes back into it and back into it and you're like what am I ever going to catch up? And then finally you hit you hit that plateau and you're like, all right. This was a good decision. You know. Yeah, it's if I get its it is funny because people that you know, you know, they're like man you As a ball and I'm like, yeah, but look it and it's the same thing. I tell you know employees. It's the same thing that will my kids my family it doesn't it doesn't matter if it's easy. Yeah, it doesn't matter if it's easy is overrated. Yeah, you know people don't do big things because it's easy people don't do challenging things because they're easy. But it really matters if it's worth it sure, you know really get I know it sounds cliche but you know cliche stick around for generations for a reason you only get one crack at this life thing and you only get so many you only you only get to wake up and punch the clock so many times and then they're gone. So, you know, so I think I think that's something that people always figure out, you know, just talking to older people. Yeah. I'm a philosophical guy. To talk to people about life and things like that and it talked about especially older wiser people. Yeah, and it's something that I think people always realize eventually in life sure and I feel very fortunate to have had a really strong sense of that and still be relatively, you know, so be pretty young. Yeah, so that's that's what this you know that to me that's how this is is, you know, it's like I'm not going to spend my whole life see what I can accumulate. I'm not going to spend my whole life chasing after something for a status symbol or for whatever. People are like, you know, oh, you know, it's cool that you guys are just giant business, but you're really humble. I'm like, well, we're a small business and I don't know that humble is the right word. I would say just real yeah, you know pretty genuine. I mean, we're just doing what we're doing. It's not you know, but it has been really hard and I've got a number of employees that would tell you that but I think for all of us it's been worth it and that and that's what that's what matters. Yeah, I think a lot of people see when You're at now and they just don't think about all the roller coaster rides. You took to get to the point you're at now, you know, it's I get that all the time, you know, and you're struggling go. Yeah roller coaster rides. Yeah public perception. They see too. Well known well respected companies that are pumping products out now bona fide, you know, and they kind of see that they're like, ah, man, he's got a man. He's Rich. So I mean he's selling all this stuff. You know, he's Rich. He's Rich. He's successful. They don't understand that right? They don't understand the sacrifice and and you're not rich your business may be rich but you personally may not be you know, because you're sacrificing everything for your business. So it's funny. I had I was trying to show somebody the other night. They were asking about the biggest fish. I've caught on a kayak and it was a tarpon with Jim Salmons. Yeah, so I was like, you know what I bet I can find a picture of video or something. So I went to Google and I I was trying, you know, I went to type in Luther's There's Tarpon. Yeah, I taped it with your favorite in the very first Google suggestion was net worth and I just started laughing. There was a clip in there that I noticed in you were you were setting up the booth side by side with your guys you were putting down the rubber mat floor and and that's something you know, so, you know, I work part-time for a kayak shop, but my main business is I own a hardwood flooring company and I've always tried to be there working with my guys side by side. And I think that says something not only to your employees, but other people, you know looking from the outside in I mean that I was like, oh damn Luther's on his hands and knees putting this rubber mat in so I guess he is he is a stand-up, you know, boss. I mean, you know when your employees see, you know, and you can touch on this Luther I'm sure you see it, you know, you know when you're working side-by-side busting your butt doing the same sweat the same dirty. Work the same work is as your employees man. They appreciate you that much more I think. Yeah, I think so, you know. Again for us it's just every day is just let's get it done. Yeah, you know and it's not that's not Reserve. You know that that characteristic, you know, look I'm a I'm a guy who's a few years into a career in paddle Sports, you know, I you know You look at you know at bona fide our director of Business Development Kelly Woolsey. I mean, this is a guy whose reputation. It's just unimaginable. I mean, he's trying to put a meal on the mat. You know, he He was largely responsible for the Ascension of Confluence when they went from really small to really big company, you know, he's working with us and I'm telling you in a given day a bona fide. It is not an it's not an exaggeration It's Not Unusual to see Kelly myself. Whoever helping to load trucks. Yep. We are a you know, we're legitimately a small business and it's kind of whatever it takes to get the job done and I'm really I feel really fortunate and appreciative to be surrounded by a team. That is likewise. You know, it's it's not just something, you know, putting down tradeshow carpet. It's not just something that you don't usually see President of the company doing you also don't The engineers do it you don't see, you know, the you know, there's a lot of people in the company that you would normally expect it. But right in our team, we're all were all just there to get the job. I got the bona fide factory tour by Kelly Woodsman. And that was the best Tour Ever dude. He's such a coward dude. It is one of the best human beings on the planet. I feel so fortunate to be working alongside Cal. Yeah. He is a good dude, and that's something to man like you got some Some really great people working for you Janine your your secretary don't or I don't want to clean Jeannie Jeannie. Yeah, cuz we're surgery office. She's awesome. Awesome. Yeah. I mean you got some really really stand up cats working for you man. I dig it I dig it. So well, I guess that kind of ties in a bona fide, you know, unless you had something else you wanted to touch on with yak attack. I'm Amber, you know, like I said the most exciting thing going on there now is, you know got got the call it because I'm in South Carolina, you know a lot right now, but we're moving the plant at the akattak. So they're about halfway through that move. So super exciting time for everybody there. I'm looking for I'm going home tomorrow. My daughter's got to play. So I'm going home tomorrow to be there for that and looking forward to taking a quick Loop through A new building. Maybe I'll jump on Facebook and do a quick live and share. Everybody's going on their nice. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so you guys release some limited edition models of the 127 in the 107. I think it was marketing genius, but I'm digging those new color schemes man. Yeah be cool. I mean that was my favorite one. That was so much fun. I mean, you know, we knew from The Woodsman that people You know, I mean, obviously the nuts and bolts of the sport is what's going to help you catch fish sure, but at the same time, you know, yes the deeper question. Well what is catching fish doing, you know and what it's doing is it's it's satisfying something inside of people, you know, we love to fish we like to go do that. Well people also like to have cool stuff and then I have stuff that they like to look at and that they like to be in and that you know what, I mean, that's part of the experience and I think we re The Woodsman. Open our eyes to that to that component and so we were like, you know what so for you know, I cast as a really early show to be showing a lot of new stuff because dealers are still in the middle of their seat. It's just it's just for our industry, you know, what will why not show new products in May, you know, well, you don't shoot 2020 products are made for reasons. July is really early to be shown during 20 products and for us this year number one. Mage there are no major product releases. We're we're kind of you know, we're kind of digesting the growth that we've experienced over the last two years. But secondly, it's like, you know, how do we have some fun at icast, you know, make sure that we're relevant and I kissed and get you know, give cut satisfied need in the in the industry that that maybe hasn't been and we didn't know for sure how that was going to go. I mean sure we didn't go out there, you know knowing that that it was going to be as You know well accepted as it was but we knew beyond a shadow of a doubt is going to be fun. Yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure and dude that was just in man. He you know, we gave Justin an objective and I'd say we set the bar pretty low and he just knocked it out of the park. You know when he said he was like yeah traction pad guys coming in. You know, we got some stuff we want to show you and I'm like cool man, you know, and I walked in there and I literally like you gave me goosebumps. I'm like, are you kidding me? Yeah, like the whole Black Widow like with the web. I'll do the traction pets. I'm like are you kidding and then he just, you know each boat and you know, just as one of these guys that you know, it's like, you know, we gave him a in and that's what that's the mark of a great artist is you An inspiration sure. It's like okay B-25 Bomber. Yep, put that all of the integration of B-25 bomber in an SS both. That was all just United me. He just he just he's just got that thing that you just run across every once in a while people that have that thing that he's just very visually gifted in very creatively gifted so not to go out there and you know, and then we're like, well, we know there's going to be a lot of product releases a lot of chatter a lot of Buzz so we don't want to get drownded in that noise. So we decided a couple of days out before the show. Let's just go ahead and start dropping these things but do it in a way that people don't know there's another one coming and just just have some fun with that drive from from South Carolina down to Orlando. You know, when we drop that first one in every and it's funny because we got like it's like it's like a caravan, you know, the truck left that morning Kelly and he left a little bit later me and the girls are coming way behind them and Yes, everybody, you know, it's kind of on the first like okay, we're going to drop this thing at six o'clock or whatever it was. And then the phone starts buzzing. So did you see e9n to watch the responsibie for us as a small business how cool see see that man? It's just it's if if the people that you serve don't care about what you're doing. Yeah, it doesn't feel like why are we doing this right now? It's not but when the when the people that you're serving her like this is we love Mike. This is something we want. You know, it's not just about okay, we're going to get the sales. It's also about we did our job. Yeah, you know, we did our job. We should have got cast as something they made our customers happy and that's what we're here to do. So now I mean it was cool. And that is just kept building kept building you consider. I blew all of us away the what how significant response was sure. But yeah, super fun. Yeah and you saw it out. All your pre-order is like really fast, right? I mean there we were over. So before we left that cast. Yeah now, you know, we also, you know, we won't we don't want to do a scenario where it's like well because you heard about it later, you know, it can't get any so we're going to make sure Sure that you know, all of the qualified dealers have an opportunity and then we'll sell some of those really large orders back and everybody know all the dealers are cool with that. They all understand that you know, you know, the two things we don't want to do is want to exclude any dealers and to we need to you know, it's like well, we're only going to make you know, so many know we sold so many is like in the question came up and I was immediately like no We're not reducing the word that we yeah exactly that because at some point in time if we're going to do that. Well Leslie leave it open-ended to begin with right now, but leave it open-ended and that's what we're going to stick to so it's it is hard for, you know people in the company to be like, okay. Well, we'll just we'll just throw those sales orders in the trash like well, you know, this is what you know, this is what everybody signed up for. This is what we came out to offer. So So, it's cool that there is I'll tell you this if you put a limited edition out and nobody wanted them. It doesn't mean anything to own one. Yeah, right, but everybody that ends up with one of these boats. Yeah, I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt. Yeah. There's at least two people that want one. Yeah. Oh, yeah, so it's so it's gonna be a cool thing for him and and you know, and of course we're going to continue to offer, you know, really good fishing guy next to, you know to everybody else too, but Doing something like that. That's fun. And that also is really good for the business. That was cool man. Those really cool. Yeah, super sharp to man. That's our our local dealer level and canoe and kayak man. We have people calling us like crazy, you know marks like these boats are hot. Everybody wants something. Yeah. It's the same thing with us hit rock Tom. And I think I think Kevin said he ordered two of each in the 127 s but I think half of them are already spoken for you know, Yeah, I think that's what's going to happen is once we put the notices back out to the dealer so that we confirm with they're going to end up with I think most of those boats will be sold before they hit the dealer. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah people just come pick them up and go away with it. And which is cool. I mean, you know, it's just it's a win-win-win, you know for us. This is slow time of the year, you know, so these boats are going to move in the fall. That's super cool. Yeah for dealers the same thing. Oh, yeah dealers. Consumers. I mean, they're bottom for a reason, you know, they want them the it's fun. It's fun. Everybody's enjoy everybody loves it the guys who end up with them the gals and the guys and gals who end up with them. They're gonna be proud to own them, you know how to means all the way around and that's what good, you know a good free market Commerce. That's what it does. Is it makes everybody went. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think one of the funniest messages I had from a guy on Facebook reached out. He says, hey man, I'm And one of these special editions, I think it was a wicked. I'm okay. I was like, okay man, it's going to be you know this price any just text back who cares like I didn't care a little bit higher we're going to go to the highest bidder. No, I remember, you know, when we got the woodsmen and it was the same thing. I think by the time we got him we had one last that was in stock and that went in like less than a month. You know, it was the same thing with The Woodsman, which I thought you had maybe posted something like you guys were considering bringing The Woodsman in as like a full-time deal possibly. Yeah. Yeah, you know and it was a it was a it was a question to the industry because you know, it's like we planned on doing it is limited because As we were going to buy all of the components at one time. Yeah, make all the boats at one time ship all the boats and be done with it. But we jacked up the launch there some delays and components and this and that and so they were supposed to all ship before the end of December. We didn't even barely start shipping them until then so then we had to finish shipping the next year and then it's like, you know, and it just the whole thing was kind of jumbled up, but then we realized that people I really want these boats and dealers were asking us. You know, why don't why don't you just keep making us because our customers really like it and the perception for most of the Dealer's was the customers weren't buying them because they were limited their bio because they really like the color scheme. So we're like, okay and I wasn't comfortable because you know is that thing is say what you do and then do what you say, you know, so I was like, you know what I'm just going to put the question out there sure, you know, that's kind of a vulnerable thing to do and it's funny how many Like I've had several people who have given me either direct feedback or told me they heard someone giving feedback that you know, that's pretty unprofessional to be you know, talking so directly with your kite on like yeah. Okay. Well then that's what you deal with you. Yeah. That was cool. I mean, you know, we got we got the answer we were looking for and it was a mix there were a lot of people but there were enough people in really it would have only taken a couple that said look I bought this because of his Limited You cannot go back on that. Yeah, so the woodsman's done, you know carrots okay over and you know, and the other thing is it challenges us to you know, we got to set the bar a little higher now. Yeah, how do you how do you do something better than The Woodsman, you know what? I mean? Yeah, and you know, so Yeah, it's part of me wishes that we had just you know kept that thing going and that we had never done it as limited. But it also it showed us that that is something that you know people respond to it. They like and it's and it's says it's fun so that I mean The Woodsman was the inspiration for what we did at icast this year. Very cool. Very cool. You plan on ever happened like any more mixed color boats. Are you just going to stick with those being limited edition and just Solid colors on all you're both. Um, and you know, we're we don't we Never Say Never I guess, you know, we like the solid colors. I think it's distinct. I think at some point too many Fades too many options of Fades to it at some point. It just starts to blend together sure and I feel like you know, but the bona fide line having that super clean Super bulb look to it in the the in the the parts and the components not getting lost in two colors, you know, I mean, I've been really stand out. I think there's something there at the same time. There's a customer that wants the parts in the components to get lost in the boat, you know, there's people who like to duck hunt out of their boats, they're like to you know, they like that kind of more blending in think so, you know, I don't know. Yeah, but I don't know, you know, I don't know what her win. Okay, very cool right on. Okay, I dig it. I think maybe I know yeah. Whoops. That's great. No, that's super cool. I know we got a here in Bought a Woodsman from our shop and I saw her two recent demo day. She had The Woodsman there and I was like, so I dig in that because I talked to her about the bona fide platform at the Chicago fishing show this past winter and she came in and see we had a Woodsman. I think at the show. I want to thank I don't know either way. She picked one up. She's like, you'll never see me get rid of this boat. I love my Woodsman. I love the color of it. I love the layout. And you know, I was like man cool hand Blues where it where it's at and she's smart. She we had an argument about colors. Let's leave it at that special. Shout out to Heidi Britain. She's a she's a super awesome customer of ours. And yeah, she just loves that Woodsman man. She loves it - that's cool, man. Yeah. Yeah, we dig it man. Yeah, I mean I know you guys were kind of Blown Away by the way that the x 123 kind of came out to right. I mean that boat is really taking off. I know we notice it, you know. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it is a lot of people are like, why would you do a sit inside but I think there are a lot of you know, our our industry has evolved so much in a short amount of time. I mean, this is kind of how you know, it started in and you know it A lot of sit inside kayaks and you know, of course way back when but I mean even in the last 20 years and then you know Anglers more and more lean towards the sit on top because and I think what drove that is, you know, traditionally kayaks a pretty Tippy sure and if you roll a kayak if you roll a sit on top you can roll it back over all the water drains out and you're good to go or if you're you know, a lot of a lot of really hardcore kayak fishing start on the coastal in the coastal area. So you take a big wave in the surf and you know, you're sitting a foot under water and then you know, 30 seconds later you're floating again. I mean, that's the advantage of the sit on top. It's one of the big advantages but kayaks have evolved in especially the Hackett whole that we developed. I mean, somebody said, well, what do you do if you flip it over and I'm like, when's the last time you saw anybody flip a bona fide? Yeah, you know, I mean there are no I would not take this boat in every kind of condition out there. But for flat water lakes, you know, especially like Stumpy legs where you don't want to get home on a Scupper, you know that kind of stuff. It's a great boat and then the fact that you could pick it up and sling it over your shoulder sure, you know, you mentioned scenario who did the podcast I mean, you know scenario is you know, whatever hundred fifteen pounds little girl, you know, and I mean, we during a photo shoot were like, you know, what it would be good to get Siddharth carrying this but you know, she put it up on her shoulder and you know and Walked away with it. You're not going to see that with a sit on top kayak. Right? So the fact that you've got an open cockpit the fact that you have a cockpit Rim that you can set up on your shoulder and then the fact that because the cockpit is cut out all that weight is gone. Yeah, right, you know, so it's a lighter it's a lighter weight boat. It's easier to carry it easier to maneuver. And then you padlet. Oh my gosh. This thing is a little rocket. Yeah, and you know, and and that's not that unusual. I mean, there's some there's some fast sit insides out there, but it's a rocket and then you can stand up in it. Yeah. I'm with complete confidence that isn't that is it is in a class of its own there. So now it's a cool, but you know, it's my favorite but in our lineup right now, okay. If you know about that was going out tomorrow in shows the kayak I was going out and unless I was going and you know punch it through surf or something like that. That's the boat. I'd be taken a lot of people underestimate a sit inside kayak. I mean they are phenomena specially for kayak fishing. You know, I'm on the blue sky, he's on the SS 127. We got another couple other buddies around Jackson's and stuff. You lose a fish. It's the hits platform and it's gone, but when you have that sentence, I'd kayak. You get a second chance and a third chance. It's all contained. Yeah, absolutely love fishing out of a sentence. I kayaked. Ooh, I love it. So yeah, and I think a lot of times people feel like they're sitting way down inside the boat and you know, the seats are usually not very comfortable but this boat has a frame seat, you know, you set up relatively high. It's got a much better console area. I think than most sit on top probably including including hires. I mean that the SS Series has the drop pod, but But it has a very functional console. You know, it's got a lot of different things in it. So, you know, and we named it Expedition because that's the other thing for this boat. That's I think it's really good fit for is you got a tremendous amount of dry storage in the rear hatch and you know, take that, you know, nice overnighter, you know, two three days whatever camping trip. That's actually something. I'm looking forward to this false and our keeps threatening me that she's going to have to take me on a trip. So we It's a video and footage and go do some you know, Fisher River and do some overnight stuff and that would be awesome. Yeah, we're looking forward to trying to find some time to do that in this fall. But yeah now I absolutely loved the boat. Yeah, that's exactly why I ordered one man just to do overnight River trips up on the Wisconsin River. What's a way you said? It was real like the way I don't know the weight on it to pounds or something. Right? Wow. It's elastic it by me 60. 262. Yeah, I'd actually have to pull the website Thunder exactly. Another shot weight is down in the 50s. But by the time you put all the see stuff on it, so it's a little bit more than that, but it's no wonder I got the beauty of technology. So C 63 pounds without the seat 67 with the seat. Okay. Nice. Yeah, and the whole weight is 50. Yeah. Okay, stop it. That's super light. Yeah, it's light man. It's like moving that thing around is so easy so easy, but can't beat it man. Can't beat it. No doubt man. It sounds like a good Creek boat to manage. Somebody wants to fish shallow. Yeah, you know, it's kind of like it just a grab and go kayaking. You can go hit some shallow creation stuff then yeah and that and that's exactly what we're here for particularly for fishing. That's what it is that you're grabbing Gobo. You're not going to you know, what? went to canoecopia, yeah, and one of the things we ask customers out there is forget about Transit time from your house to the water. But from the time you start to load your load your kayak till how long it takes you to get it loaded get it unloaded get it on the water then get it put back up and they get it put it put away when you get home how much time is that? And I mean the average response was like an hour. Yeah, which makes sense. I mean you figure about 15 minutes and each one by the time you get all your stuff together, and that's what's Is you know with electronics with all the rigging with all the rod holders with all the stuff which is great for Tournament Fishing or four if you've got the time to do it, I mean it's good stuff to have in the water. But what if you want to go fishing for two hours after work, you know, what if you want to keep boat on top of your roof so that you can just you know, hit the little honey hole before you go home. You need something that you could just literally take off the roof. Not not go get your you know, whatever Dolly and all this other stuff that you It's Unique to manage the bow but pick the thing about the route throw your shoulder set it down. Go back get your two rods put them in there. Do you know paddle PFD and boom you're out fishing? Yeah, I'd like that. I dig it man. I mean back in the day man. I had a little 10-foot sit and and that's what I would do to three hours after work. I grab that over, you know, any of the other boats in the garage and it is I mean, it just makes life easy. So I absolutely yeah. Set up. I have a grab-and-go rod spinning rod a backpack with Bates. I know it's going to work on the river paddle PFD and I'm gone just like that if I'm bad day at work, you know at the office I'm going man. I need to go. I need to hit the water. I need to unwind grab go boom gone. And the other thing is a lot of people have buddy boats. Yeah, they have a boat. Yeah buddy bow or a boat for the wire for the book the kids or whatever, you know vote for whoever's, you know, you're fishing with or whoever you're introducing the kayak. Fishing, you know that particular weekend or whatever and so it's like okay your buddy boat could be a you know, less expensive more economical whatever you want to call it version of the thing you already fish out of yep, meaning it brings, you know advantages whatsoever when no one's using it right or it can be another arrow in your quiver. Yeah, you know, and if you got somebody that you know, you're taking out or whatever and they prefer to fish out of the sit on top little fish out of that and you This other boat, but when you're not fishing with anybody now, you have choices. Yeah, you've actually added a you know an error to your quiver. It's kind of like well, we have a you know, it's like, you know, you have a car and you have another car. Yeah, okay, which car but if you have a card you have a pickup truck. Well now you have options. Yeah. Yeah right. Now you might want to take that pickup truck. If you're going to get a Christmas tree, you know me as opposed to trying to strap something to the roof. So I feel like it's a little Little bit like that too and people have really responded to that and we've heard a lot of people who have bought the boats and a bottom for that reason is you know what I'm gonna have a second boat. Anyway, it may as well be something that gives me some versatility. Yeah, heck. Yeah man, very cool. I dig it any chance would be a special edition 11:7 asking for a friend. Not that I know of think about it. I loved that boat man. It's that's my Riverboat. I loved that boat, man. You know, I had the 127 first and then the 107 than the 11:7 in that 11:7 man. I just you know fishing the small River by my house, I think paddle so well and again, you know that entry level boat or that buddy boat, you know, I've had some buddies fish out of it and they're like sitting sweet and I'm like, I know I know where to get it and you know for that series it's easy its Ultimate Fish ability and it's got all the bells. It's got everything you need for e^x. It was easy as grabbing go. Yeah, literally sat around a conference table and said, how do you say it's really fun? Yeah, right because that's the message that ours. It's a joy to paddle, you know, we did a little dealer event where a local dealer was like Hey, I want to bring all my staff. It was just for training their staff. They going to bring all the staff out to this Lake and I'd like for you guys to send somebody, you know to train them all. on your boat, you know you had several manufacturers there, so You know turned out it was a good weekend for me. So I went up there and what another guy went up there and I mean all of their staff, I mean almost every raving like, oh my gosh comment we got was about the artist once if they're like, this boat is so much fun. Yeah, you know, so it is I think in our I mean we obviously you know that we we make a lot of them, but I still think it's an underappreciated boat as far as the amount of Attention we get it, you know talking about it and it's just not about you hear as much about out in Social medial and there's a lot of people in them, but it's probably a little bit underrated in terms of being part of the conversation. Sure. Yeah. I completely agree minutes. It's a fun boat to paddle super fast. It's lighter. It's obviously not as light as the e^x but He's no man. Just a great great all around. You know II boat and a Riverboat for me. I've enjoyed my time in that thing. So yeah, it's cool man. I dig it dig it you happy with your kayak lineup or you plan on adding different models or tweaking models or Yes, yes, and yes, there we go. We're going to start thinking on it and we're going to be looking to improve it. So yeah, well, we'll always do that as far as do. We need any more boats in the lineup. I mean, I think we have the major bases covered but I think there are Still a couple of opportunities, you know, we're we're thinking about that. You know, we're thinking about that now, I'm really proud of you guys for not bringing up pedal drive yet. Oh, yeah. No, we usually bring it up first seven seconds. Now we were going to bring it up. Yeah, that's what well, that's one that people keep asking about and I mean at some point in time, you know, assuming that we could really, you know, find something that we feel like adds value to the marketplace. Place, you know, that would be an obvious one sure, you know if and when that happens, who knows but but even just you know, even between now and then I think there might be I think there might be at least one more boat that that would have a good place in the market. Nice. Yeah, very cool man. I kind of see you know, I pedaled the 127 and I'm looking at that car that cockpit there. I paddled that for I think it was about a full season and I'm thinking that's perfect place. For motor so, you know, I would probably see maybe a pair up with liked or Kido or something before I would ever see a pedal drive come out of you, you know, but you know, I could be wrong. Yeah, I mean there's a there's a company out there. Now I saw him at icast making a little Pod Drop in motor for it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I don't it was Bigsby fix it the big Speed Motor I saw that. It might have been a big Speed Motor. I'm not sure who is making the but they're basically about it. Looks like they bought one of our pods and had adapted like a battery inside and stuff and then you know, if you're at the demo if you saw Jeff Littles set up on that 127 with that new that bigger trophy. Yeah, dude, that thing's amazing. I mean amazing fast you're powerful. So yeah, I mean, you know, I think there's a there's People keep basket. It's like, you know. Is paddling going away or is you know, the title track is going to be it or is it going to be electric or you know, is it going to I'm like there will always be all three. Yeah paddling is not going anywhere. No, it doesn't matter. You know you what you hear on social media lie is the you know, the people who are fishing competitively or business work for really long time who feel like, you know, the the pedal drive is kind of the ultimate evolution. But I mean kayak fishing got great because people love to paddle. Yeah, that's that's what made kayak fishing great. And yes, one of the things I think in our in our industry that we've allowed to happen is the message for some for some, you know, you know customers and they're getting it sometimes from dealers is well, if you can afford a pedal drive you probably want this if you can't do that, I've got some paddle kayaks over here, right? Well that's baloney that's like saying it. To me that's kind of like saying well, if you could afford a rifle you might want this if you can't afford that I've got this bow over here, right? Right, right. Yeah. Oh honey, and honey with a rifle are two different things. They're not the same experience and catching a fish. It doesn't matter. How big or how small or what kind of water out of a boat that you're paddling versus a boat that you're peddling their two different experiences. It's not about what's easier sure, you know people say and it kind of goes back to what we're talking about in. Has people don't do things for fun because they're easy that's kind of defeats the purpose. They do things to achieve a certain experience. Yeah, so, you know, that's the way I look at the pedalpaddle power thing is which experience are you looking for? Right? Yeah. Oh and if somebody's looking for the experience, that's the you know least physically demanding get some as quick as possible so they can catch as many fish as possible. Well, the motor setup is probably the one you're looking for. Yep, you know if they still want human power. They just want some advantages of being able to hold position easier, whatever they may be are look, you know, they fish particularly deeper water and you know, not the conditions that petal drops could be a liability, you know, not rivers or you know, whatever. Well then maybe they want to Pedal drop but I don't ever want to see us discount the experience of kayak fishing with two blade of paddle. Yeah. It's something that it's it's own unique thing and it's like it's like And again, I use the hunting analogy earlier, but you know, I've killed a lot of deer, you know some some with a crossbow some of the compound bow, but if I ever if I ever, you know, successfully hunted with a recurve that's that would be something that would be the ultimate achievement. Yeah. So I think you know kayak fishing is a lot the same way there different levels of the tool you use More the easier that the tool makes it for you to do what you're doing. It's not to say it's not worthwhile said say it's not good. It's nothing but it's a different level of achievement. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I agree with that 100% I can dig it. But for me, there's no preference. I saw something the other day. It was like well what it is is Luthor doesn't like penile drives. I'm like I started in a cup now granted that is true the way before I start a bona fide. My preferences is paddling but there are certain conditions. I'd much rather be in apologize. Yeah, there are certain conditions that they're just do just better at or a motor is even Rather than that and there's certain conditions that it's just really hard to you know to go out there and do it at all without. You know, I remember fishing some, you know, bottom spots out in you know, often the bar Navarre Beach trying to hit these little tiny spots where the Snapper were and you've got all these Coastal currents and winds and stuff like that by the time your baby gets to the bottom like you could omit be nearly impossible to time it just right, you know what I mean? So there are cases where there's there's a tool for each job. But you know, I just refuse to accept the argument. That one is better because it's easier. Yeah, that's not that's not an intellectually honest conversation. Right? Totally people with pedal drives man. Once they get to we're going where they're going. They always pull out the paddle afterwards at least majority of the time and kind of fine tune what they're peddling into, you know, at least that's what I you know, you're a hundred percent right because you're you know, you've got propulsion in the middle of the bow in the Steer with the rudder. Yeah, so it's difficult to do tight maneuvering with a pedal Drivin you no Hobie always impressed by Hobie, you know, their long-term thinkers. They're great. They have great Engineers, you know, they they done some really cool stuff in this industry. And you know, what they showed at icast is definitely a an evolution, you know what I mean of the Mirage drive, but even you know, even that Out there, you know there's what you can do when you're shooting a video and then there's what you can do in the environment, you know, and there's going to be times that even people with that driver going to pull out a paddle. It's just going to yeah, absolutely. Yeah, never going to get away from the paddle. You're always going to need it for summer. Yeah. Yeah. Very cool man. You got any other questions for our man here rickets? No, man. I just wanted to tell you we got a local guy here. On the Loveland canoe and kayak fishing team that was added to your affiliate team. And he's one of our co-host the real down. He's doing good work for you over here. So shout out to Brad Hicks. Just wanted to yeah. Yeah, you know, it's it does a good job Revenue man. He really does so awesome. Yeah. Yeah, he was he was like, can I get on the show tonight? Can I get a shoutout to bring he could make it tonight? Because he's getting a Luthor tramp stamp added on. Look for that on his social media Instagram, you know, so hashtag Luther tramp stamps. Yeah it soon it's too funny. It's too funny too. Funny man to climb is it's so cool to be, you know, I mean, we're associated with some of the best people in this industry. I mean, you know, it's just it's video for you know for a guy like me that I really never thought you know what I mean? Like this is a pipe dream Beyond a pipe dream in some ways, you know to be doing this now and you know be surrounded by kind of people that were surrounded by in, you know, the constant encouragement from the industry and from our customers and say You just every day. It's like okay, we got to live up to this today. Yeah, we did yesterday but we tried yesterday. We got to try again today every single day. We've got to live up to that. You're living the story. You want to tell my friend dude, and that's where you look that's that's a lot where that came from is like, you know don't want one thing and do another, you know, don't don't want one life and live a different one the things that make, you know, a lot of the things that make the give life its richness and That they're not easy. Yeah, you know, but if you if you want to create a live the life you want to create, you know, put that effort into every single day and it doesn't matter whether you're fishing. It doesn't matter whether you run a business whether you're raising a family, you know, it does your building. It doesn't matter what you're doing. If you do the thing that you you know, if you do the thing that creates the environment the environment of the life that you want to be part of and you can't go wrong even if you Never achieve it, you know at least at least tries pointed that direction. Yeah, exactly. Amen. I dig that we should have Luther have his own segment words of wisdom and a paddling thin podcast bring it on. Yep your recipe. I got some jacked-up analogies man. I dig it. It's so awesome man. Now we can't thank you enough man for taking time out of your evening sit. And chat with us is has been some some really great conversation. I appreciate it. You know, I think I think we dug in and some stuff that I know you've done several podcasts and stuff. I mean obviously some of the stuff we've talked about you've talked on others. I've always tried to follow along, you know with stuff you've put out there and I dig it and I learned some very interesting things about yourself your companies and your product line tonight, and I think it's a absolutely something that everybody's going to gravitate. Tate towards you know, it's you know it, you know kayak fishing. Yeah, that's like our main thing here, right but the wisdom and everything else that comes along with it. Not only that but, you know knowing what goes into the the components that you're putting on your boat the boats your paddle and things like that man. I mean there's a story there to tell and I think it's cool to hear that story what all went into the getting to where you're at and you Where you're going so yeah, thank you very much, you know, you know, obviously you guys you find Luthor on Facebook quite a bit. If you guys want to go over follow him check out yak attack products yet. It's Yak attack.com, right? Yeah, except got comrie. I could take that us. They both go to the same place and then bona fide.com check it out. Check out all the cool products at your local retailers. I'm sure everybody's seen them, but if you haven't you You know, we got some new to kayak fishing guys that listen to the podcast here. So guys go check that stuff out just a shout out to our supporters here at the podcast Rock Town Adventures Loveland canoe and kayak hammered lures Coyote sunglasses fish mob lures Southern Lake Co Michigan Ohio kayak Anglers, and then as always guys the Recycled Plastics program save your used Bates from this fishing season. Send them into the Dress in the show notes are good man out at hammered lures. Mr. Eric Richards melts toes down makes new baits donate some to Heroes on the water great program. And that's awesome. Yeah. Yeah, it is awesome in it. Yeah that kid does that selfish selflessly and it's just such a good way to give back man. So with that being said guys tight lines and smooth paddling.
    In this episode Brian & Ricketts sit down and chat with Luther Cifers the Owner of YakAttck and Bonafide Kayaks. We talk about how this all started by one light pole that Luther and a friend created. How American made products are done. What is new from YakAttack and Bonafide, and the things to come. 