It's time for a new era of communication in the swine industry one that you can get the latest updates while commuting for driving to Farms here. You will have the brightest Minds the global swine industry in your pocket. You know, what you're trying to do with that is manage the polyunsaturated fat composition you have the option. So one of my old or historic sayings that I like to say was The more fat you feed a pig the more it looks like the fact that you feed it swine it podcast is only possible with the support of forward-looking and Innovative sponsors, like the lawn cose previs sent a new purrs spective visit previs sent prrs dot U, s-- to learn more Newt request experts serving producers and delivering breakthrough Solutions Genesis the first Power in genetics Xin Pro essential trace minerals. Exceptional performance every Pig a simple yet powerful Pig health and production management tool gestahl always one step ahead swine feeding. Welcome to find a podcast. My name is Marcel room Salvage your host for today's episode. This episode sponsor highlight is about Newt request you to request delivers targeted breakthrough solutions to animal producers via nutritional and non nutritional products services and Technologies and Newt request. We believe in Ingenuity inspired by servitude and that our success comes from helping producers realize improved profitability through optimized Technologies and efficient operation. Hello everyone today. We have dr. Jeff Hanson on the show and he's going to talk about pork fat quality and that formulation Lessons Learned and the impact over the last 40 years. So thanks for your time Jeff. Thank you. Glad to be here appreciate that and let's just get right into your your history first, you know, so tell us how did you get involved in pig production and and your career to this date? Yeah, thanks. It's been I've been in the pork industry since 1976 and which I grew up working for. My brother-in-law's old tank of farms in South North Central Kansas. And today they have a bore studs EFI studs, but I grew up working on the farm and we had fair to finish live cattle and and it was a diversified crop and livestock farm so that got my interest in. Pork production and we had sows outside knowing dirt lots. And and so I learned all the way through the late 70s until I went to school. I went to Nebraska for a short stint, which is where I grew up in and then I got my bachelor's and Master's at Texas A&M and my doctorate at case Kansas State. So it's pretty fortunate. I had an influence by Daryl can maybe and TD tanksley was a tremendous influence on my career. As well as my brothers and you know, he studied or they studied pretty extensively amino acid digestibility. So okay going through my masters and PhD I had exposure into amino acids and digestible formulation. And so that that became an important part as I went on to K-State and we were working at that time really starting to see some of the ideal protein kind of work come through and so that influenced us as well as we're coming through K-State lot of Matter open work was being done and we started to incorporate that information on Ideal Protein into how we formulated and really Advanced it fairly quickly. They're from from K-State. You know, I went on to be a faculty member NC State for a couple years and extension and research and ultimately had an opportunity to start at Murphy farms in 95 and as a nutritionist and director of research there and So I worked for Terry coffee for a lot of those years and in which we you know, I let either the research and the and the nutrition or just a nutrition program. So as we merge through to the Murphy Farms Murphy Brown Smithfield system, you know, I was able to be a part of that growth for almost 20 years in law and I left I left there for an opportunity with Newt request and I've enjoyed the transition. I miss my friends and what I did at Murphy farms or Smithfield, but I love what I do and the people I work with so it's a really unique opportunity to you know, do a very different role from having done a lot of different things at least in it Smithfield's alright, and now more recently when those requests right? Yes, and so about the last four years. I've got solid four years experience in sales now. Okay solid for you and have you ever tried to calculate how many pigs you fat? Hello, but it is you know, we've had a lot of millions at at Smithfield and Murphy farms. It was I always working for the largest producer. I know most people recognize that I don't have much of an ego. But what little bit is there was always Satisfied by having worked for the largest companies and it it gives you a truly unique perspective on what the issues are once you get big and how you deal with the processes. And so it is a really different scenario about what you're trying to manage the daily activities and execution versus a smaller producer that might be able to focus on an individual Barn. So it's just different fun. Very nice. All right. So let's get into the definition of pork fat quality if you can do that and also why is this important? Yeah, so, you know, I'm just so happy. B2B have the opportunity to talk about this topic. It's something that I've been very passionate about for most of my career having started at Murphy's, you know, we faced a really unique situation in the Southeast where you know, we kept getting these pigs leaner and then we got massive amounts of these very lean animals started getting a lot of Pietra in and and so you know what we found out was that pork fat quality and and pork muscle quality weren't one in the same. So if we think of I think the best definition after talking to some friends about this is, you know, really thinking about the quantity and composition of the fat that's in the carcass or in the pork product and as and how it relates to the future value of that product. So as I look at pork fat quality, I consider things like bacon obviously when In the east coast had had thin bellies that gives you a different problem than a thick belly and a different characteristic that the consumer may or may not find appealing. And so we did a lot of work for example with Mickey LaTour at at Purdue when he was there and you know, we ultimately found for example fat cell feel mattered you had a lot of sales, but they weren't very well filled so that composition of what's in those cells But also then you know de novo synthesis is affected by the rate of growth so you can see how the composition and quantity of that fat matters particularly in pork. So as we think about that that compositional aspect may be measured in IV iodine value. I always like doing a direct measure the chemical measures I didn't have to worry about any prediction equation being wrong, but you could look at things. Like melting point and other characteristics many people Define it in a lot of different ways at different points in the carcass. What we know for sure is the composition of the fat matters, but the one that often can be missed and especially in the midwest is perhaps the quantity of fat very thin bellies and very lean animals have led up to problems that we addressed in the Southeast certainly that's that's still an ongoing issue. So that value though comes in things like bacon acceptability. I can tell you from experience being the supplier of Last Resort is not where you want to be. So there's a basic threshold. You have to meet when it comes to let's say meat quality, but fat quality as well in pork the same would apply for beef. You can't have soft fat in beef and have an acceptable product in the US your your hamburger will It'll grease out and it'll just make a horrible product from a consumer acceptance standpoint. So as we look at defining what that fat quality means comes down to how it affects economic value and that can come in bacon. It can come in the store fat around ham whether you're going to have ham slices that'll kind of grease out and we'll look bad and affect consumer acceptance shoulders often times consumers like to cook shoulders on in the US. He's in a smoker and if it's Fallen apart because the fat is really greasy. Hi Ivy. Hi polyunsaturated fat that affects their choice. And so what what you don't want to be is that supplier left in the combo sitting out in the middle of the floor where you just trying to get rid of it too greasy or yeah, that makes total sense. All right, so let's jump To the historical perspective fat quality and also Jeff some Regional differences based on ingredient availability. Yep. And so it goes back in my years of experience. I'll remember symbol being developed from the national pork producers Council and so forth. We're in the 70s, you know, we started bringing in a lot of European breeds increasing prolific Assisi, and that's it's really when we started to concentrate down. I know that I want to say Murphy farms the first sod farm that the South Farm that the Sands company built. It's called Sands Farm in 1976. So I have a point of reference that it's like the late 70s and 80s. We started to see these very lean animals as we tried to improve the lean carcass yield and by definition Port people like pork because of its fat quality characteristics. They I could because its flavor and and it's generally good from a cooking perspective. They like many things about pork that are related to Fat. So as we go through this lean time frame of the 80s Smithfield actually developed product called lean generation one of the and to my knowledge one of the only branded fresh meat products ever created and they did that with their own genetics and it was a very high success. They measured the fat content and it was very low in In intramuscular meaning it made about like shoe leather now, I could cook it. Okay and have it edible but honestly people while they bought that product and the success of the other white meat was real people like pork because of its fat and its flavor. And so you see a transition that product ran its life and then I know those guys at Smithfield transition over to add Iraq and it yielded up much more Higher quality product and that's more acceptable to consumers in Asia, which prefer a premium quality product from a marbling standpoint, but also in the US and so I think we have a very Superior product to a lot of places in the world. It's just cut different and so the regional differences we ended up seeing this very slow growth in the Southeast. We saw less fat cell fill. That was a different problem. Very thin bellies you come out. Out to the Midwest and all of a sudden we get the Renewable Fuel standard that increases ethanol availability and lots of oil was being left in nose. And so then polyunsaturated fat started to create a real problem in the midwest. It was a different problem than the southeast but it was a problem them less and so they they were faced with a different set of circumstances and then as the industry started to remove oil you Cover five to seven Cent per pound ddg versus a 25 cent or 30 Cent a pound oil you were highly motivated get the oil out. So we do see that product reduced today. And and so that has been one of the blessings of the ethanol industry taking some of the oil out. Is it decreased the amount of polyunsaturated fat that's out there causing a problem any thoughts on fat quality between the the different countries in our experience. Yeah, so we deal quite a bit and I've been to a number of customers in Canada. Canada has a unique problem in that they you know, they have a small population and they can certainly out produce their population much like the UK US can for demand standpoint and their price competitiveness is less than what it would be in the u.s. Grain basis or just the cost of Housing and electricity and energy cost would be higher as it's cooler there longer. And so, you know how they become more sustainable. They've been targeting for the premium markets. They have small grains, whether that's wheat or barley less polyunsaturated fat. They have targeted a higher quality product. And in fact of displaced a number of the US customers for premium product into Japan. An it was a more competitive product for them to produce it commanded a premium, but that that that's been a struggle. I see that in Canada. You look at Mexico. You see a lot more commodity pork being produced and how they cut that products very different for the consumer in that region and whether that's an export product or not. So there's there is very differences great differences in the product are It knows countries Brazil Marcio, you know that how the cuts are selected and prepared is very different in that country to where you don't see as much value in bacon or a real premium high fat quality type product. Same would be true in Chile where I go Asia, you know, it depends on the market Japan. It's a premium Market. I think China is there they're going to be different right? So It's Unique Korea and Japan. I think are you true premium markets? And then the white white tablecloth markets in the US for for some of that really high quality pork. Very good as you think about a waste of managed Park fed quality. What what are the options there for a nutritionist out there? Yeah. So the simplest idea I always come back to is, you know, it depends on your Situation where you're at certainly managing growth rate Dino vhost fat synthesis is going to put down at most of monounsaturated fat, right it's going to be a lot of saturated fat and and some amount of a monounsaturated. You're not going to put down a polyunsaturated fat. So that largely is going to come from your diet. Which means okay, your diet is a significant source of consternation for the finished product and you have To meet a basic threshold. So if you're going to feed a lot of distillers grains or vegetable oil whether that's corn oil and let's say we're trying to get away from feeding animal products. That's a big piece. We see a lot of corn oil or soybean oil being fed. And you know what you're trying to do with that is manage the polyunsaturated fat composition. You have the option. So one of my We're historic sayings that I like to say was the more fat you feed a pig the more it looks like the fat that you feed it. And so that's a really simple kind of idea and you remember perhaps you don't in Brazil, but there's an old book on Meats from the 20s a picture from the 1920s or 30s where they show peanut oil fed pigs in which the the intercooler the oil is dripping off the carcass. Des oh wow, because it has such a low melting point. And so, you know, you have to consider that the more you feed that pig the more di Nuovo fats advances that it's replacing. So that's where the root of that idea kind of comes from. So if you go back to 1996, I think it was Dean Boyd prepared the ivp feeding. Look Greener. Yeah, I think I can't remember the exact name of that. But but it was Dean we worked with Dean and those days in Gonzales and to kind of look at that and say okay that makes a lot of sense ivp feeding. You could understand that putting a lot of oil in would create a predictably worse carcass. And so while it's not perfect if if you look there's maybe some of the K-State Iowa State data recently said says that you know using 18 2 s is a better predictor ivp does such a really good job of predicting it relative to the diversity of products exist out there. So if you take fish oil the 18 to equation won't predict its impact fish oil with ivp would would be better and I've if you just is done value product right there. Yes. Yeah IV off the product right? So it's the average, you know the IV of the fat. Times the percent fat and so it gives you a scale a scale of Riser of the type and quantity of fat in that diet. So by definition then you could figure out feeding wheat or or sorghum or barley which you would tend to see, you know, at least wheat and barley in the small grains and in Canada, you would see less of these issues because you fed a diet lower and basically polyunsaturated. fat and as you go closer to the us where we have lot of corn products we get, you know, whether that's distillers grains or it could have been corn gluten feed other byproducts of of corn production, you know would come in and hominy feed just different things were available but using a high starch product will generally result in a firmer carcass because de novo synthesis is Actually going to be only a monounsaturated or saturated product. We're saturated fat. So as we think about that you can use ivp but it doesn't mean that there's not value in feeding diets high in polyunsaturated fats. So it could be that if your Packer, you know is offering some penalty for for IV carcass measurements. So it's measuring your pork fat quality and assigns value to it ddgs might get cheap enough and corn oil might get None of that, you could still feed those and take that penalty. But the alternative is you can use there are Technologies out there like like the product we have called lip innate which affects di Nuovo fat synthesis and and basically stops the monounsaturated but but that product works. Well, you can use as much ddgs as you want save get that savings and then use this other product to recoup that back. We've seen customers. I do that with try to do it with Tallow or palm oil some of those harder fats. But again where you run into the problem is the total amount of fat goes up and you haven't probably replaced corn oil which is already three and a half percent right something like that. So you get a lot of polyunsaturated fat coming from your corn product. And as long as you're feeding that you still have the risk of accumulating these polyunsaturated fats, Very good, very good. Now a little bit of a what you call well fire round. So Barrel versus guilt which one has higher or firmer firmer fat? Yeah so barrows which had tend to have a little bit more back fat or total body fat. We've always found had about a two point higher IV are two point lower IV than a gill times. My apologies now, Where where there's customers that are using immuno castration? Yeah, you find less difference because the guilts they can actually use I think there's people out there using that and getting a growth response from the immuno castration in the guilts, which now puts them, you know on part or worse than barrows or Boars in that case, right? Okay. How about piloting? So there's pretty good evidence out there. I think that pelleting does increase IV if I was pelleting I would tell of course my supervisor that wasn't the case because I never wanted to give up the value but I think you know, there's some work out there that says that it does it's not that obvious to me could really only be because you change digestibility okay of that product. Very nice and then good anything else in general and fat quality before we moved to the three questions. We ask every guest. Oh, I think you know the consumer preference the idea that people have to remember is you have to meet a basic threshold and then you go from just meeting that threshold to what is the most premium product and you know, there is a value chain throughout that it's generally not linear, so Being greater at it or better, you know isn't necessarily better. The consumer just has a basic threshold and then you get the very premium products. So making sure that they meet that and and take advantage of all the technologies that are out there. We see customers that won't use ddgs because of the risk might impair pick product quality there is enough evidence out there. We can manage it very effectively to whatever outcome we want. Point and there are tools out there to do that. Very good. Is there a good source of black guys the NRC has some values for ivp or not. I don't recall now. Yeah. Well, I think at a minimum the Phat values you can either use a calculated or really any Source out there. You can use the IV for the fat the base fat sow corn oil has got a certain IV hundred twenty-five soils, maybe a hundred thirty. So knowing those you In calculating the ivp pretty well for any product the equations available. Yeah, very good. Isn't it time your pers protocol evolved? Elanco suppressant pers is safe and effective offering at least 26 weeks of immunity duration against the respiratory form of pervs as the first and only on Market USDA licensed vaccine containing a contemporary lineage one field stream present is a contemporary Very solution connect with your veterinarian or an elanco representative to understand how previs sent can fit your operation visit present prrs dot U s-- to learn more prevalent. It's time for a new perspective. It is time to our family. All right Jeff. So the three questions we ask every guest every episode. What is your favorite sign related resource books or whatever it is? Yeah, so I'd say I know I've heard many of your other guys talk about this Wayne cast actually brought up one of my true favorites, which is a trop raising the pig and tropical climates, but truthfully my favorite is the arc the last published version of The Arc in 1981. Well, I think it was 81. Okay might have been 91, but it Still one of my favorite books because what it taught me was how to determine factorial requirements and how it can be successful and looking at problems in a factorial way for whether it's building amino acid requirements or phosphorus and calcium. So, okay and they are see I've seen a name but is agricultural research Council. So it's the European and NRC if you will, I think it was the last published year. I think I actually stole Terry coffees copy, okay. Good. What is your favorite book unrelated to swine or being a book or a resource that you follow? Yeah. So for me, I think good to great and built the last or two of my favorite books. Jim Collins from a business perspective. Those are just too fantastic books. I recommend for anybody in in our industry or any industry that matter to read but one of my most recent favorites is we read this book called The servant Okay, and serving around servant leadership and it is it is a good lesson for anybody about how to lead people in interest just a wonderful book. This is called the service of it. So last question Jeff is what separates a successful sign professionals from those that are not in our opinion. Yeah, so I listened actually I listened pretty intently to Gonzales Castro's answer and and he embodies to me what drives success and that's Passion passion and commitment and that servant mentality. I mean here is whether that's Alberto kasserine or Randy stacker, you know, you go to any of these people that have been around the industry for lots of years and to me what they embody is a passion for what they do and to serve that industry. There's different people for different things, but I know Gonzales a great Example of someone that just has absolute passion for his industry and in bodies that in everything that they do. Yes, that's that's very very true. Very nice. Yeah. I mean I got impressed with Gonzalo. He's he send the latest research. Sometimes that we are not aware of very good Jeff appreciate our time and we'll be in touch. Thank you.
Today’s episode will cover Pork Fat Quality and Diet Formulation: Lessons learned and the impact over the last 40 years. “The more fat you feed a pig… the more it looks like the fat that you feed it.” – Dr. Jeff Hansen. Our guest is Dr. Jeff Hansen, another bright mind of the Global Swine Industry. Dr. Hansen graduated with an M.S. from Texas A&M and Ph.D. in Swine Nutrition from Kansas State University. He was previously Director of Nutritional Programs with Murphy‐Brown/Smithfield, the largest pork producer in the world, for over 20 years, and brings extensive experience in nutrition, production management and feed manufacturing. After that, he joined Nutriquest as Director of Technical Sales and Service. What you will learn:   How he got involved in pig production and the development of his career;  Definition of Pork Fat Quality and its importance;   A Historical perspective on pork fat quality;   Regional differences in the US based on ingredient availability;   Thoughts on pork fat quality between different countries;   Ways to manage pork fat quality;   What separates successful swine professionals from those that are not. Jeff’s favorite swine-related resource: Agricultural Research Council Jeff’s favorite book unrelated to swine: The Servant Edited by Lauro Faccin 