Welcome to friends of the force. I'm your host Brad Whipple and this is your Star Wars podcast for positivity and collaboration. On today's episode 4 from a certain point of view. We are joined by a editor and writer over at Nerdist and she is now coming out with her own Star Wars podcast centered on the reloj community. So we are thrilled to have you here joining us today to talk about her Star Wars fandom being a freelance writer and more on reloj and bend emption. So sit back and relax. It's time to find out from a certain point of view what Star Wars means to writer and editor Lindsey Romain. You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father go follow. I was seduced by the dark side of the force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader when that happened the good man, who was your father was destroyed? So what I told you was true from certain point of view a certain point of view move, you're going to find that many of the truths. We cling to depend greatly on our own point of view. Well joining me today here on front of the forest. She is a writer and editor for Nerdist and she has a new podcast coming out called Halo reloj. I'm joined today by Lindsay Romain Lindsay. How's it going? It's come pretty good. Thank you for having me. Yeah, I'm super excited. I had to have you on for those of our listeners out there who aren't familiar with your work. Can you give a short introduction to yourself? And what you do in the Star Wars fandom? Yeah, so I'm a writer I was a freelance writer for a long time and now I'm a editor / staff writer at Nerdist. So I tend to write I write a lot about Star Wars I'd say that's probably the main thing that I cover for us and I tend to write a lot about Ray and kylo. If you couldn't tell from the title of Maya my podcast, so that seems to be Mike Of corner of the Star Wars world. What a great Corner though. I mean we're having the most fun over here as a fellow reloj and bend mshulist. It is a great corner to be in and I think we'll be pretty happy. Come come December. Now. I first discovered your work back in June. So you had written on June 18th an article in Nerdist titled why kylo Ren should be redeemed and the rise of Skywalker. So this was the first ever article I read and The way you wrote it the way you woven like mythology and ancient Greek Legends all this different stuff and it was just fascinating and I was like in my mind a light bulb went off. Like wow, this is how you can write about Star Wars, you know and a week or so after that you were on Sky stalkers for the Ray and kylo symbolism episode. I don't know if that was like one of your first Star Wars podcast appearances or not. Was that something new for you when you're on with Sky talkers and and what's it been like just writing about Star Wars professionally? Yeah. Well, I think I don't know if that was my first Star Wars Pockets. I've definitely talked about Star Wars another podcast. It might have been the first like Star Wars specific podcast. I was oh actually you know what? No, that's a lie. I was on. Oh gosh. I can't remember the name of it on the spot. I've definitely done another one before I did one through making Star Wars as podcasting Network 100 come. Yeah with the women. So, yeah, so I've done that before. Definitely I did / film cast I was on their Last Jedi episode. So I've talked about Star Wars definitely in the podcasting world before and then for writing about it. I mean, it's something that kind of has been natural. I guess I started I'd say really Around The Last Jedi is when I started writing about Star Wars kind of almost predominantly, I guess that one just really sparked an interest and at the time when that came out, I was still a freelancer. So there's a lot of pitching, you know ideas of yes. Yes and stuff which is you know, the struggle a little bit. Luckily that one gave me a lot of good food for thought. Yeah, and then yeah with notice the cool thing about writing for Nerdist is that the editors are really tailor your interest like they bring that into what they let you cover. So I think I pretty quickly like we all read about Star Wars there but I think I kind of like quickly made that my my main brands that yeah. It's and so yeah, so it's just kind of luckily to nerd. Really supports all my kind of crazy ideas. Like I throw out some Bonkers one sometimes and they're usually pretty receptive as long as I can back it up. So yeah. Yeah, as long as you got the facts there any idea can be a good one. So yeah for the most part so you starting out as a Star Wars fan, I'd you know, you answered some questions on Sky talkers and other podcasts that you've been on what was it like starting out as a Star Wars fan like when did you enter into the the fandom and or not necessarily A fandom, but just becoming a Star Wars fan and then maybe eventually that At that part of fandom online. Yeah, so I think it's always hard. I have a hard time answering this question because Star Wars is just something that's always been like kind of a part of my life. I grew up. My family was into it. My older brother had all the toys and like the VHS tapes and stuff. So I think my real first exposure was through the toys. I remember having like Princess Leia dolls and Luke Skywalker dolls. I like like actively almost remember just like scenarios I made with those dolls more than I do the movies. Look at it and then I'd say like I first started having more of an awareness of like actually what star was was when the prequels came out. I was I think 10 when Phantom Menace came out. So I was you know, right in the the target audience for those and kind of grew up with them. So by the time Revenge of the Sith came out, I was like a teenager and you know feeling all the things that I feel like really yeah relating to all the Anakin angst. Yeah. Yeah, and I Like I would say my first proper like very distinct Star Wars memory as a fan was seeing that movie at midnight. I went with my family and you know at the time we thought it was like the last Star Wars movie. So we were very we like dressed up and stuff. We had a lot of fun to like me and my family my friends all went to that and then I that one really caught my interest like I think like I said because my emotions were kind of parallel with like what was going on there and I remember I saw that in theaters, I think like four or five times. I myself I just can't get yeah, so that was like what really sparked it and I remember going back and re watching the other movies like properly this time and really getting into it. I think that's when I started reading like some of the you know, EU books and stuff that my brother had so that's like when I remember getting properly into it and then it kind of faded I guess as I like got older and went through other fan of sessions and stuff and then you know, the sequel Trilogy came around and I that was kind of happening at the same time. Time that I was starting to build a writing career. So it just kind of happened nicely that like my interest in Star Wars was rejuvenated as I was starting to like get more professional writing opportunities. Mmm. Your story seems to be a very rare a story that I think of her line in The Last Jedi something inside me has always been there. But now it's a wake, you know, you said you mentioned Star Wars was always just kind of there for you. And then finally it awakens with the Revenge of the Sith and then literally later on with the force awakens. So when you are, yeah. When you talked about the sequel Trilogy is kind of around the time that you started to become a professional writer. So did you always know that you wanted to to be a writer was that always kind of there in your mind, but then the the sequel Trilogy really cemented that for you or were you on a completely different trajectory before that? I think it's kind of complicated. So I knew I always wanted to be right or growing up. That was the one thing. I was really good at. The one thing. I like had the most interest in. I just didn't know what Outlet. I wanted to choose for that writing. I didn't know if I wanted. Let go the creative route or the journalism route or whatever. So I kind of struggled with that for a long time. I was trying to like do both in college and I really sort of took to journalism once I was in school and I but I always knew when I was doing journalism. I was like, I want to write about movies. Like I knew that I wanted I didn't know if I necessarily wanted to be a film critic. I just knew I wanted to like blend my love of movies and television and like media and stuff with the writing that I was doing. So, Kind of actually created my own major in college. I did a film minor in a journalism major. So it's kind of going back and forth between the two departments at my school and stuff. And really I was targeting all of my journalism projects to Media related stuff. It's a great combination. Yeah, it was really task as yeah. I was the only one really doing that which to me seems crazy now. I'm like, I can't believe more people weren't like I want to write about movies, but I want to write about you know that my journalism degree said to me I felt like kind of The Best of Both Worlds like I was getting a tactical degree sort of practical I guess and then like still having fun with it. Yeah, and when I graduated college, I ended up working kind of in this kind of boring. I ended up doing like kind of boring like just random writing jobs, but I was always writing so I always been a professional writer in some capacity since I graduated and I started working for the Chicago Tribune for a while. I did Social Media stuff for them kind of unlike a contract basis and then there I was writing for there. Culture publication also so that was kind of when I first like started to get professional clips that way and then it was kind of that's when I started freelancing more to and then I had a job at a bookstore. I was just kind of you know, there's life like yeah, whatever I could to like stay alive and but yeah, I would say it was like right around the pre are the sequel Trilogy that I started to freelance and like kind of a serious way and then I worked at the television station for a while. So I kind of put the freelancing thing to bed a little A bit was trying to like do it on the side every now and then I'd like maybe do an article every few months. And then I think the first like big article I got published was actually about Rogue one. So that was like when I first really crossed over was around that time. Mmm, you mentioned the the struggle of the writers life. Now, what is kind of been some of the most like challenging aspects of that and and also just like what advice might you have for somebody out there? Who is this is an aspiring writer. You know, why? It's there whether it film and TV is their big interest or fashion or whatever. Like what's your best piece of advice based on your experiences that you've been through? My best piece of advice is kind of like it's going to sound kind of depressing but it's you know, really only do it if that's like the only thing you want to do because it's hard. It's really hard. It's not you know for me. It was always just like I didn't know what else to do. It was the skill that I felt the strongest set and like the thing I had kind of worked for. But throughout the whole time. I was like man, if only I had one other thing I like to do because this is so hard especially freelancing. The hardest part about freelancing is just kind of in a technical way. It's that you never know. Like when your paychecks coming, you know, every place has a different system and when you're trying to pay rent and bills and stuff, it can be really hard. So I would say if you really want to be a writer but have some kind of other field I would like test the waters on the side so, you know try to freelance or puts about even just Or something and make sure that you're really confident in your skills before you start trying to make that your full-time thing because it's not a life that I really wish on people. Sometimes it sounds very glamorous and fun. Once you get to the point where you're secure it definitely is. Yeah, it's very hard. Yeah, you're kind of a bit small fish in a bigger see when you get into that industry and it you know, I think I think the writing you're putting out is fantastic, and I'm sure it's going to continue to Pay off for you and you're doing a great work. So all of us Star Wars fans do appreciate your writing in terms of anybody else that's influenced you writing wise as there ever been any particular stories or articles or books that have really shown you the strength of the written word and like how it can have an impact on anybody who? Yeah, I definitely I'd say it depends on like, you know, there's definitely like fiction writers who have really influenced me. I mean huge Shirley Jackson fan. She's kind of a really good horror writer who sort of writes through the female gaze. She's been a huge influence. I mean even in my nonfiction stuff, honestly, like I always just try to Pepper it with some of her kind of wit this shit really really great sense of humor. I mean not to be basic but you know, Carrie Fisher also was a huge huge influence on me. She's my one of my biggest Inspirations just as a writer because same she's also very funny but very smart just like whip-smart when you read her book, yeah. And just anything that she's written. She's really great. So she was obviously it's a Cyrus was the last book that she came out with right? Yeah. That was for last one, which was yeah based. She wrote around her Diaries. Basically that she kept when she was like 19 and filming the first Star Wars so that one yeah, if you go back and read her writing when she was 19 years old. It is astounding she was so smart such a good writer and I mean she continued to be a good writer. But like if I had those skills when I was 19 years old, like it's the kind of writing that you know, grown adults would a spy. So yeah, she is our very own princess Prodigy our general. Yes, absolutely and she continues to be I continued to read her stuff honestly just sometimes you know, she's been a nice kind of anchor for a lot of stuff to obviously she wrote about mental illness and you know death different things. I think a lot of us have experienced. So yeah, she continues to be very relevant to me as a writer in terms of like trying to think of people like in my field maybe that inspired me. The one writer I always kind of give a shout out to is Amy Nicholson. She's a freelance writer now, but she was one of the first like kind of she does a lot of podcasts and stuff. Now she was somebody who I think just kind of wrote without regard to like what people really think about her opinions. Like she's just very much her own has her own perspective as a writer and I think for me, especially when I was in film school, I felt a lot of times like I had to had to like like the movies that everybody else liked, you know, I Don't like all of the kind of Macho movies or whatever. Yeah, I know it took reading like good female writers like her to be like, oh, no I can just I can like Titanic if I want to Star Wars if I want to hear, you know, I didn't feel that I don't know shoot certain writers like her of made me feel more confident and just being, you know being liking what you like and writing about that. Yeah. I totally feel that, you know having having all these big movies coming out that everybody's talking about and sometimes you can kind of feel pressured into liking them just because you want to be a part Of the conversation, but I think it takes a lot to really just step out of that zone and like you said like what she liked and kind of died on those sorts of Hills, you know. Yeah. I mean that's when the writing that you do is the best is when you're you're really confident and like what you actually believe and I think just learning to let go of like caring if you sound cool and Twitter, you know, it's heart in it. That sounds really a silly but it's actually really hard when you're trying to break out for sure. Now in regards to Star Wars, what is it been about this franchise and these movies that are have really connected with you because I know at least for myself, you know, they connected with me one way when the the I saw the original trilogy and the prequel trilogy kind of changed that and then the sequel Trilogy has drastically changed the way I look at and interact with Star Wars. I laugh at people who say no Star Wars is dead. It's running out of steam. I'm like, I think Star Wars was dead before we got these new movies honestly in a way, you know it. Was it was vacant in our life's for so long and now it's changed so dramatically the landscape looked so different. So what has been the impact on you and why is it connected with you? Yeah, it's something I think about all the time because sometimes I do Wonder like it's not something on paper. I've not really always been into stuff like this. And so it's hard for me sometimes to pinpoint like, why does Star Wars speak to me in such a way? I do think the sequel Trilogy really like rejuvenated that love because it was finally giving us these stories. You're kind of a female gaze, you know, we're seeing a woman's perspective and sort of the hero's journey and if that felt rare to me and I think I just kind of I think I really latched onto Ray. I know you already kind of made that comparison, but it's very true. I think like this feeling of I remember seeing the force awakens and I was excited for the movie but you know, seeing obviously really like double down on my excitement and just seeing this character who's very lonely feels kind of out of place with things and just latches. On to these people who come into her life and like present this exciting fantasy. I think there's something really Escapist and that that that speaks to me for sure. And then I think you know, there's so many different ways to talk about that but I do feel like the sequel Trilogy is just kind of given me these more intense feelings, you know, obviously the fun adventurous stuff is really apparent in the original trilogy, but I don't know that I felt quite you know, the deeper themes the way that I yeah, a lot of that's the reading what other people have written about it and just kind of experiencing the fan. With other people who have like minds but yeah. Yeah, I don't know it's hard. Sometimes it's hard to like, you know, like yeah, I think the fascinating thing about Star Wars 2 is like you can enjoy it on any different level of yeah that you want like you can like it for those action-adventure moments or the pew pew is I refer to them, you know, or like the really deep pathology and it's cool to find your those subsets of people that you can talk to about those sorts of things. Yeah, absolutely and I mean not to like immediately get into like The reloj stuff but I do think like finding that Community really like helped me too because I was feeling a little disenchanted with the fandom after just all the conversations after the Last Jedi not the movie but the kind of you know all the baddest Coraline. Yeah, it was hard. There's bad stuff online what I've never heard of this surprising, but I promise you know, but I think I felt kind of just really bummed out after that just because I loved the movie and I wanted to talk about In a positive way and like I just felt like I couldn't put that out into the world without only like receiving negativity back. So it was really kind of the rail of fandom. That was like, oh no, here's like other women and men and people who you know are seeing something that I'm seeing in these stories and want to talk about it on this deeper level and it's not just like the vitriol. So I think that was like a nice way back in. Yeah, and I know you said, you know not to get into reloj, but let's because that is the name of your podcast and I want to go back to one of your articles. I'm going to put you on the The spot here, but in a good way because you I was reading this do it as Palpatine would say so you read this article back in June and it's called the case for reloj and Star Wars the rise of Skywalker. It was almost like you were destined to make a podcast about rail. Oh, so you wrote think back to Anakin and padmé and they're doomed love which destroy the Jedi Order and inadvertently created the Empire and then you later wrote by creating to all-powerful force users you asked. So, how does the force this Almighty power? Reckon with his destruction by creating two all-powerful Force users from different worlds and different sides Drawn Together by fate and passion romantic. Love broke. The Jedi Order. It might be the only thing that can save it as like Mike drop Lindsay Romain dang like that line and this again is just why I love the way you write this. Do you want to talk a little bit about just the I don't know if you've been well versed like the reverse on a doll all that stuff. I'm sure you have but in terms of just like the idea of like, you know, our wars being a love story and I try not to harp too much on radio, but it's Central to the the story and I'm a huge fan of it. And I think this ultimately this Trilogy is going to be that love story. Once again, it's going to repeat those same story beats. Yeah, I think so. I'm definitely familiar with with the reverse on a dolla through, you know other things that other people have written about it in a really smart way. I think yeah, I think what you just like the line that you said, Obviously, I wrote that but it was something that kind of like when I came to that conclusion, you know, like even in my own head because I was trying to like put to words. I was like, why do I feel like this is such a powerful thing. Why does it mean something to me? Why do I think it's like a healing part of Star Wars? And yeah when I realized I was like oh because like it was definitely something you know, yeah, like you said the romantic love broke it what's a different kind of relationship than we've seen in Star Wars before we've never seen to force users and love and what can that be? You know, what does that mean? And what does that look like? And yeah, I think love and all of its different forms have been kind of both powerful and poisonous to the force. So, you know, I can't romantic love make it all better or one did reloj click for you. Was it during the force awakens during The Last Jedi know for different people. It's clicked at different times. And I think that's the most interesting part about this story. Is it can really Dawn on you at any moment the light bulb goes off. You're like, oh, okay. That's How it is and I love seeing new people come into the fold on Twitter and you know just being like, oh, I see it now, you know and that's such a great moment. Yeah for me. It was kind of late. It was definitely after the Last Jedi. I mean it was like watching it and then kind of afterwards really like marinating on what I thought that was what was actually going on. Yeah. I think it took it took a while maybe not even out a while to like I think immediately after I watched the movie I was like, oh there's definitely like something going on there. I think it took a while for me to like Really, you know I had to write right through it and kind of listen to stuff and talk to people before I like really landed on like my extreme feelings of like, oh, yeah. This is definitely something I see as romantic love for me. It was kind of I had to divorce myself from this idea of them being related not because I think that the Last Jedi does anything to make you think that but I think I spent the majority of the time between the force awakens in The Last Jedi like theorizing that they were somehow going to be relatives and so as I'm sure a lot of us did and so it was like I had to kind of be like, okay, that's Not a thing. What is it if it's not that so it yeah took some time but I think definitely through writing about it more and through you know, listening to podcasts like Sky stalkers and other ones listening to what people were saying. I was like, it feels kind of undeniable to me now, even if it's not something that's ever like fully realized within the text of the movies. I feel like it's at least intentionally, I would say romantic. Hmm. I would agree with that completely so talking on your podcast that's coming out. Soon, it's called Halo reloj, and you host it with Natasha Fox. Yeah, and it's a limited series. How is this podcast different than some of the reloj discourse that's already been out there. You know, what is this going to be adding to the the mix The Melting Pot of rail. Oh, yeah. Well the intention there is because yeah, there's so many podcasts already, you know hosted by incredible people who talked about this already. I might intent wasn't to kind of like do something that was like besting that or anything. I wanted to talk. More about like the community itself, like kind of only about reloj and the people in it. So people who come at it from different ways and how reloj like, you know, like for me, like I said, I kind of informed my fandom again and helped me find my way back into it. I wanted to find other people that have had different Journeys with it and how they express that in different ways. So, you know, we're going to talk to people who like have caused played and fanfic writers and just people who've come at it from different perspectives. Yeah, we're still putting that all together, but that's that's hopefully going to be the intent of it. We did it. Our first episode which is kind of a nap. My co-host has been a part of the fandom since the force awakens, which so she's like one of those, you know ogier a lows as I call them. So she kind of been our first episode we go through like kind of the history of of you know, how it developed and some of the the ups and downs and what people have been dealing with just by saying that they're shippers and the Star Wars World which is a whole lot. So what have you found so far from the podcast? I mean are you doing a mix of Online research but also like speaking with people interview eyes. Yeah. Well, we haven't really recorded anything beyond that first episode so far. So I haven't, you know, we're putting together a list of the people that we're going to have on the show. And yeah, so I haven't really like arrived in anything specific yet, but I'm hoping that in this, you know this time between now and the rise of Scott Walker before we know for sure how things wind up that we can just kind of yeah to talk to some cool folks and yeah just really like the whole intent behind Find it really was too for me to like use whatever platform I have to sort of legitimize the shipping corners of fandoms because I think that's still something that has a lot of stigma attached to it. You know as we I think we mentioned this in our first episode and I that you know in Star Wars, it's very it's like an acceptable thing to be really into like ships and droids and to know all the ins and outs of that kind of thing. But like, you know, if you want to talk about romance suddenly like you girls stuff and like people, you know, They attach this this sort of you know bad flavor, I guess to that and so I think that's silly because I think especially in my experience with the reloj community. It's been people who have seen things that maybe other people don't see that's being more and more of legitimate. Yeah, like materials coming out and it's like see they're actually onto something and like you're trying to undervalue what people are are saying and how they approach their fandom and I think that's not cool. So just kind of yeah that was sort of the the the idea behind it. Yeah, I think of the Han Solo line women always find out the truth always. Yeah, so true so true. I was thinking about that the other day when we were recording I have to say to your podcasts like theme song at least in the like the minute trailer that you released that's slaps. That's how I'm slaps. Thank you. Tell us a little bit about who made that song and kind of what was the inspiration behind it. Yeah. That's my friend. Stephen Boyd. His user name is DJ. Empirical and he's a DJ whose I met him through another Friends Podcast and he created awesome music for that. We've become good friends. And so I knew it was actually funny. When I first started the idea for this podcast. I wanted it to be I was gonna do a Darkrai podcast and it was going to still be like a limited series type thing and I just had a hard time like actually like knowing what that meant. You know, it was like a darker that sounds cool. Then I was like, I don't know what we talk about weak to be weak. Like, I just kind of the idea sounded cooler and then I had a hard time kind of putting it into into reality, but he first created the music for that. So it was just raised theme and kind of like a rkt dark kind of you know re re doing and when I told him I was like I actually think I'm gonna switch it to reloj thing, but I don't want to lose your music. Can you just put kylos theme in there too? And he was like sure so that's kind of what it is. It's like a darker version of race and kind of like remixed a little bit and then his theme kind of comes in eventually. So it's really cool I was Excited about it. Yeah, and the art I gotta say when I look at the artwork for your podcast. I don't know why and I'm hoping there is some connection but it makes me think of like a Harry Potter cover like it seems like it would be the cover of one of those books. It makes me think of I think in particular like the Goblet of Fire almost like that looks exactly like in terms of style and color scheme. Is that at all kind of intentional like is that inspired by it at all? No, it wasn't intentional, but I did the artist after. After Blossom, I've seen her artwork. She's in a lot of beautiful reloj artwork and I just kind of deemed her. No, I think actually maybe I put out a call for like artists when I like had decided on the topic and she luckily I was kind of hoping that she would respond to me and and she did right away with saying like I'd be really interested in this and I was like, oh great because I knew her stuff was just beautiful and I just kind of let her go with it. I was just like I just want ran kylo involved like I don't really care what like what else you do? I trust your instincts and then she sent me back that and I was like, oh my God, so beautiful and like just like way more than I was even expecting now that I wasn't expecting it to be great. But yeah. Yeah and she sent me that I was like, I'm gonna get T's you for every commission when I you see great artwork that somebody created for you and you just want to faint. Yeah like oh my God, this is the real. Yeah. It kind of It kind of really puts it. In the in the focus for you and like happening. Yes, it motivates you because that's when I was like, okay now I have to do this. You know, I've got these beautiful like art, you know, the music and the art coming together because I think I was you know, I was wanted to but I think that really kind of like lights the fire under you to be like, okay now it's time to get going and these people have created this beautiful stuff for you and stuff. Yeah, put it all together. And then the the text I wanted to also say the text on the podcast is my sister did that so after Boston's did the actual artwork and then my Sister who's a graphic designer? Her name's Alyssa Romain. She did the font work for it to which you know font work is definitely like also brings it all together because like it does yeah doesn't look good. Unless your typography stuff is good also so Ram don't want to put it just expands on your on your podcast cover. Right? Right, right, and she was the only person like, you know that I knew who did stuff like that who I was like, okay. I really trust your like font instincts. Yeah. I love that font instincts. Hated it. Now. What do you think would be the biggest challenge of this podcast? Because you're I think you're doing really great work. I think the fact that rather than talk strictly about the actual content of rela, which I'm sure you will too along with with everything that's happening but actually going to the people in the community and and speaking with them and finding out like, you know who have been big influencers with this idea. Like what do you think will be the biggest challenge for you in the Tasha? I think the biggest challenge is honestly just going to be scheduling and like getting ourselves on the same plate. I know that sounds boring and Technical. I'm not too worried about it getting getting actual guess because we already kind of reached out to all the people we want. So it's just I think it's just figuring out like times that work for all of us because we're all pretty busy. So, you know setting it setting a time and getting all that stuff down and then also like I was kind of telling you off are like iTunes is taking longer than I was expecting to approve this so that kind of threw a wrench in some of my schedule. This is just like, you know, the One little technical things when you're starting a podcast on your own for the first time. You just kind of have to figure out figure that stuff out along the way so yeah. Yeah. Luckily a Natasha's done other podcast before so she's been kind of my my Guiding Light through all the solute how to put everything together whatever. But yeah, I know and she's not got a great roster people. Yeah. It's just putting all the schedule especially, you know, now that the movies so close we kind of wanted to do this around the release and do it limited series. So it's just going to be getting One, you know when they have time and stuff, but I think we'll make it work might be a little shaggy. But hey, well, yeah, I mean, we're only 45 days out from the rise of Skywalker. Not that anybody or myself is counting, but I think you're going to have a lot of great stuff to talk about come December now speaking of other things to talk about here. So I got to go back to the article that you wrote on Bend emption and you being a band emptiness as well now, I want to get your take on why you think kylo, Ren can be redeemed because this again this and many other people I think is a hill we will die on and it's you know Redemption is such a central theme to Star Wars and I think it's important to take a step back and ask like, you know, why why Redemption, you know, what does it teach us about, you know ourselves as a collective Community this article that you wrote, you know, you mentioned Gilgamesh and hear all this really great mythology yin, and yang and you wrote the phrase carries a number of Readings referring to no one is ever really gone, but key among them is that kylo is still salvageable. Luke knows this firsthand having witnessed Vader sacrifice and final Good Deed Anakin Skywalker achieved Karma a Buddhist concept that is the sum of a person's actions and all states of existence and which decides ones fate and future existences. Karma is inherently Redemptive Good Deeds restore good faith, and you go on and say, you know kylo could acknowledge his failures and he can also find Salvation and the rise of Skywalker and because he fell from a shorter height his goodness may not be transactional. He could indeed get to live. So by that notion, you know Vader had to be redeemed and die, but, you know kylo could change that story. It's not just about redeeming yourself because it's your last ditch effort to be a good person. It's like you will live on and have to continue being a good person and that's how I read that that final line. So what is your take on unbend emption and why is it so Needs to happen and the rise of Skywalker. Yeah. Well, like you said I mean Star Wars is definitely always been about it's always been a Redemption story. So to me that's sort of like you said non-negotiable non-negotiable. It's something that I don't understand like what the point of the sequel Trilogy is if he just ends up bad, especially the whole thing has been about his draw to the light, right, you know, I to me it would seem really silly to just kind of like introduce that side of him and then just be like, oh nevermind. He's bad. He's dead really it just seems And the story yeah, and especially positioning him is like the final surviving Skywalker and you know, he's got this place in the story where it feels like it's pretty like it's pretty important and not to like take away from raisin Port importance in the story also, but I do think that there's some kind of you know, you don't you don't make the last surviving Skywalker. I mean, I guess lay is the also surviving Skywalker, but you don't make like kind of the Next Generation Skywalker kid like have no no. Hope I guess is kind of how I see that. So to me, it's just kind of important to like why Bring the story back and why introduce this character if that's not the story that you're telling at least somewhat as years the transactional thing. I mean, I guess he could redeem himself and died, but that to me seems like a really like boring and kind of like easy way to do it. Like I think keeping him alive is the more challenging story because you know, that's living living a life of atonement. We have not seen that in Star Wars. I think Diana's it's so easy. Like, you know, you just you can write characters like okay, they were deemed they died that to me doesn't they don't really have have to do much for that. You know, they might get one good thing and I just I think the more powerful story is keeping him alive and you know, seeing through Cannon or however else it's related to us that he's actually like, you know off doing stuff doing good, you know, whether it's and I think that's more challenging to because it you know, depending on how the story lives on I'm sure we'll in comics or whatever seeing how our surviving characters have to deal with him still being alive to I think is really interesting, you know. Is Ray feel if kylo is redeemed and that's you know, the next stage of his journey. How does Finn see that? You know, like how do all these different people kind of deal with this character? Who's who's evil or it was done evil things who has to kind of find his way back. So I just think it's a more interesting story if he lives if he redeems himself and lives then if he just dies on either side of that, you know, whether or not he's so absolutely I want to see what he has to do to make people feel he's good and I think to the book bloodline where Leia she's dealing with people finding out Darth Vader has her father and that's like a huge struggle for her. It's like, how do I prove to people that? Yes, he was my father. But you know, I'm a good person. So I want to see what that bloodline story looks like in the context of her son Kyle. Oh, you know, give me give me a book. Where now it's kylo dealing with the fact that you know, he his bloodline stemmed from Vader, but also the fact that He was the supreme leader for quite some time and wreaked havoc from the point of view of everybody in the Galaxy even though they might not know his Full Sacrifice if he makes one in the rise of Skywalker of you know, killing Palpatine with Ray. I think it actually be I'm under this like theory that would be kind of interesting if nobody knows Palpatine's back except for Ray and Kyle. Oh, I'm like a Voldemort ask storyline of some sort where like Dumbledore and Harry only no Voldemort's back and kylo makes this tremendous Good Deed with Ray to kill Palpatine and he lives the rest of his days. Nobody even knowing that he's saved the Galaxy and it's like the dramatic irony that could provide in a story is just amazed. It's chef's kiss. Yeah. I just want that, you know. Yeah, I want something like that to something that's kind of tragic and like its implications but like yeah, totally like more, you know more. Meaty, I guess and also you mentioned Leia, I think that's something that I always bring up to people to I'm just like, you know, I've had Only on Twitter get feedback sometimes whenever I post anything on a pro kylo or probe and emption of people saying like well, he's a murderer he's evil and he did all these things and like well, yeah, I mean, he's definitely killed people and whatever. I mean there's a whole psychology can kind of you know track on to that which is that he was kind of abused and manipulated his whole life and thinks he has to do that right even like even beyond that just symbolically like if if he never is redeemed and dies then. Han Solo died for nothing Luke Hannah died for nothing and Leia just gets a like depressing ending like there's no hope for anybody if that's what happens to him. And I feel like these are stories about hope so, I don't really I don't know what that would do. You know, like I do ya like I would be the most miserable possible ending for everybody. It's all of our original Heroes loved him so much that they were like willing to do these Grand sacrificial acts for him and if he just dies and is never That then literally all these people just died for no reason. So yeah, just you know, just to what it means to this story. I feel like it's you know, I don't know it seems a little Grim I couldn't have said it better. I mean rebellions are built on Hope as Jenner so said and even yeah is built on hope her whole storyline and then she even says in the Last Jedi, you know, hope is like the sun if you only believe in it when you see it, you'll never get through the night. Yeah. I'm like that is literally telling you that you know, hope is we've got and the story is going to end on a hopeful note as Daisy Ridley would say it's satisfying I can't do her accents butchered it butchered it call it. We're cutting the show off done right now. So yeah, I love I love been damaged and I really I really hope it does happen. Is that something that you might touch on and your and your reloj podcast? Like how much do you think been dumped and kind of feeds into into reloj and like, how are the two intertwined? Definitely? I definitely have a whole episode planned on that because I do think that the two go hand in hand. And for sure, I mean I think and I think I think you can be a been Dimension is it not be into reloj? I think that's possible but I do think something I mean not to go down the into the weeds with this but something that I really think and I've pointed this out on Twitter and stuff before, you know, two people being mad at me. But I do think this story this time is we don't traditionally in these types of fantasy stories, see how a woman's forgiveness plays into these things. It's almost always Fathers and Sons or you know weird Option stories are often kind of like it's a man for giving another man. And so we haven't really seen something like that play out where it's a woman forgiving a man or you know, it's just kind of like a foreign thing and in movies like this and so to me like part of the rail of thing is like her capacity for forgiveness because she's such a good person. What does that look like through the scope of the story? So I think that's what's really intriguing to me too. Because you know, we've seen the father something a million times so I'm interested to see it especially if it's a romantic thing like how just how that works and how that operates in this world. You mentioned in your trailer as we start to close out the show here. You mentioned the trailer for Halo reloj. It's an exciting yet. Bittersweet time to be a Star Wars fan. Do you want to elaborate on that in terms of in terms of why you feel that way and why other people might feel that yeah, there's a lot of reasons why it might feel that way for me. I guess what I mostly meant by that was just that it's you know, the Saga stories almost over and I I think I love all sorts of Star Wars. You know, I'm really excited for the Mandalorian. I'm excited from our Clone Wars. I'm excited to see you know, Kenobi and what they do, but to me like my foundational love for Star Wars is the Skywalker Saga. So I think it's just not having that is something to look forward to anymore. Yeah. It's just kind of sad and especially these characters. I'm sure they'll like I said, I'm sure they'll Live on another iterations and comics and whatnot. So, it's not like you're really saying goodbye to them. You know you kind of are for at least for now. So I think that's kind of how I feel is like these characters. I've attached a lot of meaning to just personally and professionally kind of, you know won't be around in the same way anymore. So I think I'm kind of both looking forward to that and some you know, stress-relieving ways and and kind of dreading it and the way I said on another pack I said this week that Star Wars always feels like my home base. Like I feel like I write about other things, but I can always kind of come back to that. And it'll feel kind of weird like not having that home base there ya are. It's like our Northern Star, you know, it guides Us in the right direction and and gives us peace and purpose as literally Luke Skywalker went out with and I think of the trailer, you know, we had the shot of rain. Kylo in the throne room and it says the story lives forever. Yeah, and I think the line nobody ever no one is ever really gone. It's almost gonna be like the new I am your father. I feel like it's going to be like one of those Lines that everybody keeps going back to for like generations of Star Wars and I think that right there is telling us, you know, even though these stories are ending right now. No one has ever really gone. We may see these characters again at some point in some fashion and there is more to this this galaxy than just Nine Movies, you know. Yeah, so I want to ask you a couple rapid-fire questions to close out the show and I like doing this with with you with each of my guests. So how do you think you'd be different without Star Wars and I think that one's as rapid as I like it to be but it's a good question. I like to ask. Yeah, I think it for me. Obviously. I've talked a lot about professionally. It's just been very important to me and has helped me. I think honestly probably why I have like my staff writer job is through Star Wars. So I think I would my professional life would look completely different without it personally. I mean, I think I've met a lot of friends and stuff through it too. So I think I just I don't even know I think the because of the professional element. I think it would be completely different. I don't know. But it would be yeah, I totally get that. Now what excites you the most for Star Wars right now? Let's take rise of Skywalker out of the equation because I know everybody wants that movie. I want that movie so bad. I'm you know, my my legs bouncing every day when I'm saying down because I just keep thinking about it. So, what's what are you most looking forward to right now? I'm really this is like kind of vague because I don't know, you know if this is even a thing of the works, but I'm really looking forward to seeing like what other original shows they come up with for Disney plus because I do think that's going to be like the thing that we really start seeing more of is like Disney plus content. I know they're doing it with Marvel. I feel like it's only natural in this time where they try to figure out what they're doing with Star Wars movies that they're going to focus more on TV, and I think it's an exciting time because I think you know, we might see more Dave filoni stuff or like, you know, some new creators kind of getting to Getting to get in there and tell these new stories. I'm just excited to see like how they map out where we go next. And yeah, I'm hoping to see some more women creators and people of color and stuff, you know, just seeing them or seeing that kind of expand a little bit and I think it'll probably start on Disney plus. Yeah. Hey benioff and Weiss those guys are out and I'm here gone people if Ryan Johnson's the next Trilogy, even if he's not directing it I say throw a woman in there to direct this Trilogy and in the have him working. Along with her and it would be the greatest combination for a Trilogy ever and I just want that so bad. I want that really I really want a Rian Johnson Dave filoni like female collaborator like triple. Yeah triple triple threat. Yeah. Yeah, cuz I think filoni and Ryan Johnson have really similar kind of, you know ideas about the force and stuff. And so I'd really like to see them, you know mixed up with somebody else and kind of, you know create this new cool weird thing. God I love weird Star Wars so much never never stop never stop filoni. What is one story that you really want to see you talk about, you know more content on Disney plus is there a particular character or time period that you're really interested in I do I mean, I do want to see this is gonna be kind of like a multi-part answer. I do want to see I know like benioff and Weiss we heard that they were going to talk about like, you know, the beginnings of the Jedi Order that is a story. I really want to see just because the Jedi stuff the mysticism of the forces My favorite stuff in Star Wars. I like like you said weird Star Wars. I like when it gets weird and I feel like that's a really good opportunity. But also in the complete polar opposite of that like whenever I try to like think about what I think the world looks like after eyes of Skywalker. I mean, obviously even without the plot of that. I just don't know. You know, what what that looks like. I don't know what the world looks like if we're telling stories outside of that and in the future, I think that's really exciting. So I think I just want to see some kind of like, I don't know that's not a very good. But I really just want to see like what everything looks like after these big Saga stories have wrapped up and I hope we see like just some new cool women in you know doing stuff. I don't care if it's forced related or not, but it's a very not specific answer. But yeah, no, that's perfect. Is there a zero woman that you really want to see involved in Star Wars whether it's a director or or an actress or even writers who? Hmm. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure if I on the spot I can't think of anybody like off the top of my head. There's so many amazing people, you know, this is a weird answer but she was up for I think a few different parts in Star Wars, but I really I know Tatiana Maslany from Orphan Black. I think she's up for Jin are so maybe in Rogue one or something. She's an actress that I love and I said to me she has such a like Star Wars e aesthetic like she's kind of rough and like or can be rough. I don't know. Familiar with her but she's a really great Canadian actress and ever since I've heard her like being kind of mentioned in the the same breath as Star Wars. I've been like really I've been really anxious to see her and they're somehow I don't care who she plays. I think she just be she'd be really great. So off the top of my head. That's that's my answer. I'll say somebody I've been thinking of recently and this is just from watching Watchman. I would really like to see Regina King involved in Star Wars great. Give me a Gina she is - oh, she's so good and Watchman, if you're out there listening to this and you haven't started watching Watchman yet. Holy crap. It's so good. I know you're a little a couple episodes behind us all your tweets and one episode behind ya how one episode yeah, but hey that Kathryn Hahn show also so good. It's so good. I just randomly started watching it last week and I was like, alright Sunday nights are consumed by a cheap HBO. Anyways, I digress what is your favorite Star Wars movie and why? My favorite Star Wars movie is The Last Jedi, I think because just going back to everything we've been talking about. I think it's weird. I think thematically it's very rich and interesting to me. I think it I love what it does but the star was with those which is kind of like put it under a different kind of focus. It makes you really look at things closer it kind of, you know, the idea of like this straight hero's journey. It really kind of unpacks that and yeah, it just surprised me in every possible way and that's what I want. Out of movies, like I don't want to walk in like expecting some Greatest Hits thing. I mean, sometimes that's fun. But like for me, I want a movie to just completely like annihilate me. Basically The Last Jedi was completely opposite of everything that I thought was going to happen in that movie and like in such a good and exciting way. So that's yeah. That one's important to me great favorite character. Oh boy. It's a It's Complicated. I think I think Ray is probably my favorite if I really had to like pick one, even though she's you know, her story is incomplete. So it's sometimes it feels hard to like say that because I'm like, I don't know what's going to happen to her and this next one but as a yeah, no, I think just because like I was saying she's kind of been my window back into this and I character I really deeply relate to I was not expecting that when I saw the force awakens to be like crying within the first 20 minutes. Like isolated Jack who life and like relating to it a little too hard. So I was like, yeah, she's been she's been sort of my yeah my person through these new ones. So I think just from that alone. She's my favorite perfect. You are trapped on an island and you can pick one Droid to help you get off the island. You can choose either k2so4 R2D2 bb-8 or C-3PO. So this isn't this answer is going to be more based in like who I think would be the most helpful not who I would actually want to be on an island. I think C-3PO would be probably the most useful in terms of getting. Yeah, like I feel like he just knows the most about stuff but I feel like I had to be trapped with one of them on an island like with a no foreseeable rescuing, but I'd probably think are to be I feel like C-3PO would be you just seems like he would because he's so anxious. I feel like he's probably really good at figuring stuff out. So I feel like right he would get us out of there pretty fast. Could find some like weird ancient ruins and read them off to you and be like, oh this says the boats over that way and you're like great. We're off the island. He's like the probability of such and such is this like he would I feel like he would know what's up. Yeah. He's like don't eat those berries on the tree. You do not. Yeah. It does totally he would know about the surroundings more than any of the rest of them. So yeah and lastly here this one question. I do like to ask. So what is one word or phrase to describe the emotions that Star Wars evokes from you when you think about it or watch it. I don't want to go by like the basic route and say hope because that's I feel like that's too easy. Um, let me think. I guess riveted is that I bet I don't know about yeah, you know, that's kind of a nondescript word. But like for me like when Star Wars is really firing off on all cylinders. I just feel very riveted by the characters and story and and yeah, it kind of like can impact me deeper than anything else when it's like at its best. So yeah, I guess riveted great. I love that. We have had a lot of hopes but riveted I haven't gotten yet. So that's that's awesome. I was gonna try to quickly for source.com Hope and like other words. Let's not hope but that's you're like whom let me thank starts typing in the background. I almost did it I didn't but to be honest, I wouldn't have judged you at all use the thesaurus website every day. It's a writers writers best friends, right? Well Lindsay, thank you so much for coming on Friends of the force today. And for those of you out there again, Lindsay's podcast along with an at Fox will be called Halo Ray. So it should be available sometime soon, and you're also doing looks like a nerd is series on different Star Wars lore. So you just recently did lightsabers, which is pretty cool. But what else do you got going on besides those two things or you can speak to those again and and where can people find you online? Yeah. I'll also be doing a Mandalorian podcast. So I'm going to be very Star Wars podcast you for these next little little bit Yeah, and then you can you can find me on nerdist.com every day and then also you can follow me on Twitter at Lindsay remain just my full name great. Yeah, definitely give her a follow. She's got some great Star Wars takes and and they're my favorite and again amazing writing. I will keep reading everything you're putting out. But thank you for what you do in the in the Star Wars community. So it helps to wrap my head around so many different ideas that are out there and and you put it all in the one gift that you just give to us we unwrap it and love it. So so again Lindsay, thank you so much for coming on Friends of the force and for all of you out there listening. Thank you and May the force be with you always thank you all for listening to today's episode of from a certain point of view here at Friends of the forest. I'll make sure wherever you listen to the podcast you rate US five stars and review us that helps other people discover the podcast and join the friends of the Forest Community. You can find us at friends of force on Twitter and Friends of the force on Instagram. You can also find me at Brad Whipple on Twitter. You can also consider joining our patreon at patreon.com slash friends. For starting at just one dollar a month. Thank you to our current patrons all deranian Rose Neal Lowery. Rural Farm Boy Michael Condon Chris from Kentucky and T and Friends of the forest is also a part of the Star Wars escape pods network with other sister shows that include Sky stalkers and unmistakably Star Wars and the geeky bubble podcast. Again. The network is that we are Escape pods on Twitter promoting positivity and fandom. That is all for today. We will see some time soon here at front of the force and until then. Then we are all ones with the force. We are all friends of the force and May the force be with you always.
Join host Brad Whipple (@bradwhipple) as he sits down with Lindsey Romain (@lindseyromain), a writer and contributing editor for Nerdist. We discuss how her Star Wars fandom began, her journey toward becoming a freelance writer, why the sequel trilogy revived her love for the franchise, and more on her newest podcast "Heylo Reylo" (@HeyloReylo). View Lindsey's author page on Nerdist here: https://archive.nerdist.com/author/lindsey-romain/ Writing by Lindsey: The Case for Reylo; Why Kylo Ren Should Be Redeemed. “From A Certain Point Of View” is a series in which I interview fans, friends, podcasters, authors, actors, and content creators in the Star Wars community to learn, from a certain point of view, what Star Wars means to them and how it has impacted their life. Is there someone you want to see on the series? Send me an email, and I'll do my best to get them on the show! Want to become a Friend of the Force? 