This podcast is brought to you and made possible by generous financial aid from Peter kanzler K. Ay n z l-- e-- r-- you can buy his Amazon books at your favorite Amazon Branch, for example, the original texts of lock Hobbs and the US Constitution of Pennsylvania put together into one book for only $15. Thanks for listening. Take so long to to talk about that Dragon thing man. Took me a huge took me a long long time to figure out how to separate that out from the other archetypes. You know, it was all right. All right, so I'm going to bang through a bunch of images here. And so That's an alchemical. Illustration, it's really cool this thing it's weird so you can see that the okay so you can think about this as a map of psychological development or you can think about this as a representation of how potential reveals itself in actuality and it sort of works from the bottom up. So the first thing you see there is that container and if you notice the dragon is emitting sperm into this thing that's like an egg. So and then this egg thing has wings and that's the round chaos I was talking about before it's the container of the you can think about it. You can think about it as the container of what matters. And one of the ways of really thinking about of organizing your framework. So that these this way of understanding can work for you is to start thinking about the world as being made out of what matters. And then you come into contact that now and then when you come into contact with something that matters now Heidegger had an idea like this by the way, Heidegger was very interested in he thought Western philosophy had gone off its tracks in some sense with Socrates, which I think is unfair. I think what happened is that Western philosophy developed immensely in One Direction and left some other directions not very developed. So I don't think it's fair to say that Socrates like derailed us. But he helped us blow up and really a lot in One Direction but Heidegger said look nothing about for a while. It's too rational. It's too limited and it misses the central issue for Heidegger. The central issue is what is being now. You might have heard about David Chalmers anybody ever heard of David Chalmers? Okay. So David Chalmers got famous because he made this question about Consciousness. He said, There's the hard problem and the easy problem of Consciousness. The hard problem is is why we are conscious because his notion which I think is I don't know what to make of it. Really? I've never been that fond of it is that we could just as easily be totally deterministic zombies machines with no consciousness whatsoever. It's like or we can't figure out why we couldn't be like that, you know, we could build a robot. Hypothetically that did everything that we did that was. Conscious now, maybe we couldn't but maybe we could so then what is consciousness and why is it I think that's formulated that question is formulated in properly because I think the hard question is way harder than Chalmers hard question because the question of being is a harder question. The question of being is why is there anything at all and what is it that is and and I don't think that's distinguishable from the from the hard question because In some sense. There isn't anything without Consciousness or that's one way of looking at things now. So that's the container of what matters and then out of that. That's very that's as Generalized an abstract as you can possibly get it's it's what similar across every instance of what matters now Heidegger also thought that our basic orientation to the world was one of care because he was trying to qualify or experience. What is our experience like or he would say what is human being like and one of the things he said is well, it seems to involve care we care about things or we don't care about them. But but care is Central to what it means to be human. and so the contact between those that set of ideas in this is that one of the aspects of being is That it matters now. Sometimes it doesn't matter at all. That's what it appears to be but it looks like we're still concerned about what matters were very hurt when nothing matters anymore. Right? And I would say part of what happens when nothing matters anymore as we're completely blinded by our map the map is blinding us completely to the possibilities of being we spiral downward as a consequence of that. So what's happening here is that what matters itself first manifest itself in this horrific dragon-like form because it's so because what you don't understand and what's anomalous to you is certainly capable of devouring you. But it's paradoxical and this is why these archetypes are also so complex because logical people always say everything is either one thing. It's not itself and the opposite of itself at the same time, but and that's a like it's a prerequisite for for the world that you can apprehend logically, but the problem with that is it's wrong lots of things are what they are and what and the opposite of what they are at the same time. Human beings are like that like you Hate someone in love them at the same time no problem and they could be a hateable and a lovable object at exactly the same time and life can be wonderful and tragic and cruel at the same time. It's like so the archetypes are actually partly there. So to help us represent entities or experiences or classes of experience that don't have a logical framework. We can't separate the bloody things out they always confront us as a as a unity and so the dragon figure The predatory reptile is like that because you might say without the predatory reptile. There's no gold. And then you might ask well is the reptile worth the gold. It's like well maybe the goal is worth more than the reptile mean. That's basically what human beings are betting on, you know, we're betting that if we confront the unknown And We Gather the treasure for gathered the information as a consequence that will help us beat the dragon. There's there's the the gold is BET is more than the Dragon. Better be but we're betting on that and that is not Terror management. That's a whole different idea. It's a whole different idea. It's not a delusion or an illusion. It's a bet and part of the bat is this is a Kierkegaard Ian idea. You don't know that's true, but you could live as if it's true and Kierkegaard would say. If you live as if it's true, then it might become true, but you'll never know unless you try to live as if it's true. And that's the Act of Faith from a character Guardian perspective. You have to a priority decide that that will work and then you have to follow it and you have to be willing to see where it leads now. I talked about this in one of my other classes. I think I finally got it right in some ways. This is something worth thinking about because I think this is this is a critical choice that people make so here's two ways to use language. Like let's say I'm going to pick up a girl in a bar. Alright, so I have a goal in mind and the goal is sort of the girls irrelevant to the goal insofar as she could be another girl. So it's it's a psychopathic goal in some ways because really really because the individual doesn't matter it is I'm serious about that. It's a so what I'm going to do say if I'm a pickup artist. I follow these pickup artists online a because I'm so curious about their use of psychology and all they ever do Come up with it's like a whole horde of man talking about how to deceive and manipulate women. It's extraordinarily interesting and extremely Psychopathic and and also it's very very very very very unsophisticated and unskilled because what the guys are their lumps basically and what they're trying to do is to acquire the veneer of sophistication and that's Psychopathic. So anyways, that's my my little Spiel on pickup artists, but they're very interesting. So what they're doing Is teaching their followers instrumental language? It's so if you want to sleep with a girl here's how to do it. Here's how to manipulate her. You know, they have a bunch of tricks like wear an expensive watch and dress up and also don't just dress up so dress up rich roughly speaking, but also add something peculiar to your wardrobe like something that really stands out as somewhat odd, they call that peacocking so that the girl can see that not only are you rich and successful but you've got that little bit of individuality that sets you apart from all the Rich and successful guys, you know and so that's like an Osiris Horus combination basically, but it's all bullshit because the guys aren't like that so it's so so and then they have all these little routines they use that are verbal routines and they have these guys they go to the bar with to help them with their little routines and it's like it's completely what are they doing? They're using language instrumentally. They have a goal in mind which is their goal and they know that what the goal is and they know that the goal is right insofar as they're pursuing the goal and then they're willing to say anything. thing To obtain that goal. Now you think well, I think that's the instrumental use of language. What do you do if you're not using instrumental language, that's interesting. What you do is you try to communicate about the situation and your response to the situation whatever it is as clearly and accurately and articulately as you possibly can all the time and see what happens. that's a whole different thing because the proposition there is to the degree that you're Transforming your experience into reality into articulated reality the things that will follow from that will be the best things that can possibly be even if you don't know what they are. So there's an openness in that approach. It's like I'm going to conduct my relationship with person X in the most truthful possible Manner and I'm going to see what happens and then I'm also going to assume that whatever happens is the best thing that could have happened because like how the hell do you know if it's the best thing? Could have happened maybe the person's all offended and irritated. I've seen this with my clients a lot. So especially with the agreeable one say because they're all bent out of shape with resentment because they're not saying something you know, and so and you know, and because they're not saying something they're getting shepherded into some situation. They don't want to be in like maybe they are they have to go live with someone they don't want to live with and they don't want to you know Express themselves because that will hurt someone's feelings. It's like so we talked about that in a bunch and we figure out how you could say what you actually think. And usually what happens is they say it they get in a whole bunch of trouble and then two days later the problem goes away. So they're afraid to say what they're actually using silence instrumentally basically because their idea is I don't want to fight with you. Well, so how do I not fight with you? I don't say anything that will upset you. It's like well upset you win exactly. You know, like if you if you're an intimate partner with someone and you see them doing something stupid repeatedly that is going to lead them into a pit in like a month or two months or a year five years. You don't get to say well I'm not going to fight with you just because that'll be trouble because sooner or later they're going to fall in a pit and that's going to be trouble to so you're not doing them any damn favors. You're just for stalling the catastrophe. Into the future. It's not helpful where instead you could say. Well, here's how it looks to me. And this is you know, how it looks it looks to me like this is where this is going and you probably don't want to go there and even if you do I'm not going to Aid and abet it and then they're going to get all upset and they're going to tell you that you're interfering and that you're mean and that you're cruel that you can only see the bad and things and if you withstand all that and they're going to get really angry and stomp out and if you can withstand that then they're going to cry and tell you you're you know, a son of a bitch in mean and that they never want to talk to you. Again, and then they'll go home and think about it and a week later. They'll come back and say I never want to see you again. Probably not or they'll say jeez, you know, I thought about that and what you said made sense and I'm going to do I'm going to try to do something about it. So But you have to decide to begin with whether or not you whether or not you're willing to risk the consequences of the truth. And that doesn't mean you get to use the truth as a weapon. I mean, that's not truthful. You can use the truth as a weapon, you know, if you see someone who's Perhaps not as attractive as they could be you could say you're rather ugly, you know, which in some sense is the truth. It's a statement about but it's not the truth at all because for it to be the truth. It has to be embedded. What it really has to be is embedded in the Osiris Horus pyramid, you know, what the outer rims has to serve the entire function of that integrated unit. It has to serve tradition. It has to serve Enlightenment. It has to serve. And if it isn't doing any of those things, it's not the truth. Even if it's the truth in this local tiny slice, you know, I I just told you the truth. It's like no you didn't you took a little fragment of what could be interpreted to be the truth and you turned it into a bat and then you hit me with the bat and then you defended Yourself by a false argument that's claiming that when you use the truth in a local manner like that. You're actually moral. It's right. That's not true. It's incredibly deceptive because you know the best way to To deceive someone is to sort of tell them the truth and then you not only you can really get the person then a because not only are you innocent because you told the truth, they're even more guilty because they're too weak to handle the truth. So man, you can really Wallop someone with that. So anyways That's the container of what matters in its first manifests itself in this potentially horrific form. And so then the question is well, are you willing to confront that and in what way are you willing to confront it and then out of that arises? At the very top that's illumination, you know, it's maybe the night first. I think that's a crescent moon. Although I might be wrong about that. I think it's a crescent moon. What arises out of that is the contents of the unconsciousness and then finally illumination, you know, so it's like Horace arising from the depths. It's a story of transformation the transformation of what matters into illumination. That's what that means. So, this is Jonah and what happened to Jonah roughly speaking is that God told him he was supposed to go somewhere and he didn't want to go there and so he got on a boat and then there was a big storm and none of the sailors knew why the storm came up and Jonah finally said, well, it's probably my fault because God told me to go do something and I didn't want to do it and so God sent this storm. So they take Joan and they throw him off the boat, you know, and he's okay with that because it's his fault and then the waters calm and then this big whale Thumbs up and swallows them and then it spits them in out on the ground three days later. Roughly speaking. So what's the idea there? Well, it's a complicated one. The first idea is that if you're cold you better listen, that's the first idea and you know, people modern people never believe that they're called to do anything, but that's because they're not very bright and they don't pay any attention and you know perfectly well that you're called to do things because now and then you know that you should have said something you know it right sometimes you don't know should have you said something should have you not said something. You don't know so fine. You're not culpable, but lots of times you bloody well know that you should have done something or you should have said something or you shouldn't have done. Something or you shouldn't have said something and you went ahead and did it. Anyways, well part of the moral of this story is beware of doing such things. You know, if you don't listen, something will come up from the depths and swallow you. And if you're lucky it'll spit you back up three days later, but it's not necessary that it will it might just swallow you and that will be the end of that. You know, when I've seen people who are Tangled Up in such trouble. They don't have enough life left to fix it. And it's usually the consequence of Well, I tried to calculate it. I think it's possible to make a hundred bad decisions a day, maybe more but certainly a hundred, you know, and those hundred just bad decisions are usually sins of omission. They're usually things that you know, you should do and then you just don't so there are things you should explore and you don't there things that you should say that you don't their obligations that you should Undertake and you don't so it's passive avoidance in some sense. It's willful blindness just like the kind of willful blindness that doomed Osiris. So it's not active repression. It's just failure to engage when you know, you should okay you do that at a hundred times in a day and it's like 700 in a week and it's 3,000 in a month. Roughly speaking and it's 36,000 in a year and then you do that for 10 years. That's 360,000. So then you have 360,000 things lying around you. That you have to fix and the problem is while you would even fix one of those things when they popped up. And so that's how out I am a tree appears right? There's little monsters they pop up and you could whack them with a hammer like whack-a-mole. No problem if you wanted to but if you don't do that for 360,000 decisions, then they all aggregate into this looming chaos Monster and the probability that that thing's going to eat you is Or that you're going to live in its belly because that's where you end up. It's a very bad idea and it's often the case that people just don't have enough time and energy left or willpower or character by that time because they're destroying their old character there. They've had it you cannot help them. You cannot fix it. They're done. They can't be rescued from hell go. That's easy. It's like it's like it's like remember I told you about those experiments with the married couples the ones that are going to get divorced. They walk into the little bed and breakfast and it's hi dear and with the kind of no. No, I smile. It's like that's a predatory smile. It's like I kind of like you but these are really teeth than therefore eating. You know, really it's not pleasant. And so they're interacting with each other. Both of them are really nice but they're not they're not nice at all. They're carnivorous right to the damn core and so on the surface, it's all roses and sunshine and like a little inch below. It's all like they're great like you could see their unconscious. If you'd see two people with her hands around each other's throat and their body knows that because up goes the cortisol up goes the heart rate. They're sweating away. You know, that's the belly of the beast. That's what that is and your body. It's smart. It knows where you are. Your you know, you can ignore it, which you do, you know, it's like oh this isn't too bad. It's like yeah, it's it is it's really bad. It's really really really bad. And you do that long enough. It's like good luck for you, you know, you've polluted your psyche and your surroundings to such a degree that you can't fix it. And it gets worse than that because if you stay there long enough, you won't even want to fix it. You'll be so angry at yourself or the other person that you're going to try as hard as you can to do everything. You possibly can to make it as bad as you possibly can and since you have virtually an unlimited imagination for evil it can get really bad. So when you get into a self-sustaining spiral at some point and that's a that's a hellish descent and the reason that hell is bottom. Is because no matter how bad it is. There's some damn devious nasty horrible little thing that you can do that you will do that will make it worse. So You know people who think that hell isn't real. They're just not paying any attention at all plenty real. So there's some other representations of Jonah. Luckily. He got back up. same idea That wouldn't be in such a spectacularly successful movie if it wasn't archetypal to the core and it just relates an archetypal tail. So, it's Brave man against horrific beast from the depths. Greek so those are the Greek's going after the Hydra and you see the circle at the bottom of the Hydra there that's like a symbol of infinity. And so what are the Greek's doing? They're tackling Infinity. Well, that is what the Greeks did. That's why we still remember them. It's like those characters. They were tough people. Then there was something about them. That was truly remarkable. You know, there was only 25,000 people in Athens. So I don't know what was up with them, but they certainly got this part, right? I guess maybe what was up with them is that's how they thought of themselves. You know, it's like they're not running away. You know, you could make a pretty strong case that if seven headed snake. With infinite length came rolling towards you it's like time to head for the Hills right not like stand there with your bronze ax. Sure, but it wasn't conscious. It was mimic mimicry which is how you do it too. You know, you don't go to a movie like go Iron Man because Iron Man's mythological to the core, especially the Avengers movie. It had a brilliant mythological theme and you don't go there and Tired man and then come out and say well, let's decode Ironman into his you know, behavioral microelements and incorporate those you don't do that. You're gripped by it you're gripped by it and the transmission of information is at a level that's below articulation. It's imagistic. So maybe it's modifying the structure of the contents of your right hemisphere who God only knows it's embodied. You know, that's why you don't know what happens. You take a kid out to see a Superman movie. He and then you bring them home. What do they want to do? They want to put on a little Superman cape and wander around being super mad, you know, and that's the level at which the information is being transmitted so that well what Superman like well, we'll play that out and to the degree that you can play it out. Then the Superman element in so far as you can mimic it now becomes part of your behavioral repertoire, so did they know what they were doing? Depends on what you mean by no, could they fully articulate what they were doing? No, but neither can we so that's what they knew. Like they weren't taking something they knew in an articulated form and saying let's represent it as a Hydra and a hero. It's completely the other way around. It's like we don't know what the hell were doing, but it seems sort of like a guy with a bronze acts attacking a snake. It's like what kind of snake well, it's an infinite snake with many heads, you know, and that would have been a work of imagination maybe maybe conscious imagination, you know, like because those are artistic Productions definitely but their products of fantasy. So this chaos Monster Dragon breaks itself into two things. That's the initial differentiation. So it breaks itself into the great father and the great mother. So that's the emergence. So it's the great mother in some sense. He merges first and the great father second. Although you can't really say that like the way the myths work is that three things emerge at the same time the great mother so that's kind of the unknown as you confronted and the great father, which is you as a reader. And then the hero which is you as an active agent, you might say one of those proceeds the other but that isn't how it works in the myths. That just says no wonder what sort of things split that's what they split into. There has to be something there has to be the interpretation of something and there has to be The Interpreter. Those are the fundamental elements of being And so it's an idea the fundamental elements of being are there's a pool of information. There's a reader of the information. So that would be Osiris roughly speaking and then there's a reader and so think about what happens when you're reading a book. You know, you might say well, where is the book you say? Well, here's the book. It's this little chunk of wood fiber. It's like well, no, that's what your visual system deludes you into thinking when you're using it. That's not the book at all. The book contains patterns, it contains representations of behavioral patterns. And the way that you interpret those behavioral patterns is by using the reader that's in your head, which is really that structure that hierarchical structure that I talked to about. If you didn't have that in your damn head you couldn't understand the book because the only thing that like if you and I are talking and we're communicating. There's a lot we have to agree on before we could even say anything about which we might disagree. So if I'm writing a book for you people as the readers, what I have to do is assume a bunch of things that you know, because then I don't have to say those things because it would take an infinite amount of time to say everything that I need to say. So I have to assume that there's a trillion things. I don't have to say because I already know that you know them and so then I can play at the fringes with those things. So, for example, I can lay out a story. About my character becoming angry and I don't have to like tell you, you know, well, we could tell he's angry because his brow is furrowed and you know, he's starting to sweat and there's a bad taste in his mouth. And if you're angry, that's how you feel. And because you already know that so I don't have to bother with that. I can just say, you know, what just set up the situation and poof, you know what anger means, you know, it's sorrow means you know, what love means, etc, etc. So that's why the reader has to be there and the thing to read sorry. The the structure The Interpreter has to be there and the thing that's doing The Interpreter interpretation. And the thing that's being interpreted has to all come out at the same time poof. And that's the the hero the great mother and the great father. So that's how they pop out now, let me show you some cool things. There they are. Now students sent me the one on the left. That's an ancient Chinese representation. And then that one's Greek. It's so cool. Look at that. You have the dragon in the background the snake with the not in its tail. That's ancient Greek that and that's its Chinese. It's a very old Chinese representation and out of the snake pops the Divine parents. Well, why is that? Well, it's partly because That one of the primary things that emerges out of undifferentiated reality for human beings is the male and the female the father and the mother. I mean, that's the first things you come into contact with roughly speaking when you emerge out of the Void. And that's archetypal. We know who our father is. We know who her mother is. It's like that's G the differentiation of the genders. What time is it? Yeah, okay. Okay. Well, let's leave it there that's good. Now we've got into the great mother and the great father and I'm going to show you their symbolic representation and their positive because one of the things that happens is you get the great mother in the great father pop up. And then the next thing is that they differentiate again and they differentiate into positive mother and negative mother and paused a father in negative father and then now and then at the same time the cross the product of those two things. which is the hero that also emerges and it's differentiates into the hero and the adversary and so then you have You have enough at that point you have enough differentiation at that point in terms of representation that you can basically encapsulate the whole world. And so that's at the base of our conceptual structures. This podcast is brought to you and made possible by generous financial aid from Peter kanzler K. Ay n z l-- e-- r-- you can buy his Amazon books at your favorite Amazon Branch, for example, the original texts of lock Hobbs and the US Constitution of Pennsylvania put together into one book for only $15. Thanks for listening.
2015 Maps of Meaning 07b Mythology Chaos Part 2 (Jordan Peterson) Too Much Jordan B Peterson Podcast TMJBP 🐸 MAPS OF MEANING PODCAST JORDAN B PETERSON PODCAST Jordan B Peterson is light on the horizon. He wants his message to be heard. The TOO MUCH JORDAN B PETERSON PODCAST uploads all of his (especially older) YouTube Content to make it available immediately to download or listen to without being "glued to a screen". We try to put the media back into immediate. https://www.bit.ly/JBPQUOTES Here's your chance to help the publishing endeavour sustain itself: Support the Too Much Jordan B Peterson Podcast that provides video free content for you by starting an own website with Siteground which is the Number One in Price and Speed: http://bit.ly/SITEGROUNDSALE or by getting a book by SC: http://bit.ly/SCHRIST If you really want to help out, get your free Audiobook via http://bit.ly/AUDIBLESALES (BTW: 1 Free audiobook for every country account!) Support the Too Much Jordan B Peterson Podcast that provides old good content for you by getting some #Bitcoin via Coinbase: https://www.bit.ly/COINBASESALE Or simply donate to or search for: 3AqWZuAE4VKRdS2k4v1zmAwn9pNkGY4rkd The Leviathan (1651), The Two Treatises of Government (1689), The Constitution of Pennsylvania (1776) in one Binding for 14.95$ by Peter Kanzler: https://amzn.to/2KQT8U1 