This episode is sponsored by my go to stop for all things makeup Revlon. Hey everybody. I'm Ashley Graham. And this is pretty big deal where confidence is key every episode. I get to pick the brains of brilliant and inspiring honest new and old friends who are a pretty big deal. Today we are talking to the hilarious Whitney Cummings Whitney is a comedian actress writer director producer showrunner author and most recently podcaster in this episode. We talk about comedy codependency and so much more. Thanks for coming on my show so great. I can't believe you're so beautiful. You're so pretty. I think you do people always screw up when they Talk about how pretty you are. Well, I almost said you're almost prettier in person. But then I was like, I don't know. Oh, no, you want to hear what she says beautiful in person know about that. First of all, thank you. Welcome. I always get oh, you're not as big as I thought you were right? What do you get? I get don't listen to them. They're just jealous and I'm like who's them? Whoo, because people are talking about you. Yeah, you don't listen to the haters. What haters? Oh, okay. This is it cost me all the things I People with that's the worst thing ever. They'll just come up to me and start talking shit about my own friends. They'll like they'll name a female comedian. I don't even think something's funny and I'm like, she's my friend like we don't all hate each other or they'll just start insulting my friends or you know, stuff like that. Oh, I think you're hilarious. Don't you listen to them? Oh my God, like about your character and your job and I do have a theory though that whenever someone comes up to you in public the first two things they say are complement. The third thing is always an insult get out after the I'll give you an example. I love you. You're so gorgeous. You're not as big in person or whatever. Right? Right thing is yeah always the third thing know that you're so so correct. I do think though that with Instagram now with podcast now people feel very close to you and they feel like you're friends, you know, they've heard you and they've listened to you for. What do you like 20 hours you like it? Does it give you stress? Sometimes it is stressful because you're like throws you when someone just comes up to the airport. Okay. How's your knee? You're like how did you know about my oh, right. I talked about you know, like it's definitely a little bit jarring sometimes like I think it's a comedian having sort of an authentic connection with people is helpful. You are the epitome of a multi - it you know, you're an epitome of multi-personality not just so you are you're you are I mean, I was just I was just saying all your accolades just here right now because I do a little pre-record and I got to say all of them and I got a little bit out of breath when somebody comes up to Ask you what do you do? What's the first thing that you say don't you know someone comes up to me? I'm like, don't you what do you think? I know you didn't you tell me? Why did you recognize me? I guess I'm a comedian. Okay, I'm a stand-up comedian. That's my bread and butter. That's the thing that I care the most about that. I feel the most qualified to do and the other stuff kind of just felt like I don't want to say digressions from being a set. But just sort of like natural progressions from doing stand-up and I think one of the hardest things these days, you know with a lot of the women I see in Comedy is not about what to do. It's about what not to do or to figure out when in your timeline, you should do it, you know based on your self-care or the kind of life. You want to have you know, it's like okay here all the things I want to do. I'll do this. I'll tour for the next five years then I'll do a talk show then I'll do it to settle have a child and I want to work different out, you know, like interests. I'm really trying to be careful about how multi hyphenated I am. And when are you doing the right thing for yourself right now lawyer? Oh, no. I love heroes are succeeding know I see people say that and I'm like, oh God because I'm like, I feel like I'm giving 30% to everything and I would like to meet you know, I think I was doing so many things in my late twenties early thirties because I was afraid I'd never get the opportunity again. I was always told you don't say no you just keep saying. Yes. Yeah, and I'm and it's kind of the same response and then you get to have the opportunity to later. Yes to say no, right? All right, you're in that position now, I think and I think for me. Me the thing that's been working as yes, but not right. Now, you know that yes, that is something I want to do, but I want to be able to do it really well and with eight hours of sleep and with joy and he's you know what your thresholds are. That's right. I do you wish that you had that advice when you were younger. Yes is that we should say I wish someone had said, you know what this might be too much for you or in this iteration. You might not have things like balance or things like life experience, which is going to make your art. You know, so I remember sitting in a writers room. I was doing three TV shows that the time and writer was pitching on a story idea for my character to go to a baby shower and I was like people don't go to baby showers like what that's ridiculous and they're like, no you don't because you don't have a life. So when you want to be creative, but you don't have a life. It's really hard to pitch on stuff. It's really hard to write authentic stories that resonate to the people that do have lives The Great Escape. You know so workaholism. I think sometimes tends to compromise our creativity, you know, and I Now understand I wish someone would explain this to me sooner that art imitates life. But in order for our to imitate life, you have to have a life you have to have a life. You have to have something to comment on you have to have something to criticize, you know, so I Now understand that it gives you a writers room on a TV show you let your writers go home at five o'clock. You don't stay till midnight because you want them to go home and fight with their girlfriends and fight with their husbands inspired to get inspired to come back the next day with stories. That's such a good advice. I think I just thought work work work work work at all costs but then you're sitting there and you're like no one wants to hear stories about work and you go out and have a life and I didn't understand that until relatively recently. That's amazing. So but it all first started back in the day here you are you're at your head. Oh, you're also modeling at the local mall King of Prussia. Hello King of Prussia. I have been there. Yeah. You've been king of Bela where I took the bus to King of Prussia Mall. All and I would walk around in bridal gowns up and down the escalators always got caught and I would do fit modeling which is when people come and they don't want to try it on so they can you try this stuff on and then I would model pantyhose which means I would stand on a block with pantyhose on and white shirt that went like down to here and I would let Dan like a button-down. Yeah. Oh you didn't do this to know but that just sounds so degrading, correct? Oh my goodness. Yeah, are you getting paid a hundred fifteen dollars an hour, which was a big deal for me and you had to come up with your own hair and makeup done. Oh, of course they gave you like the Bobbi Brown instructions. So yeah, I had to go spend $300 on makeup to make untrimmed building cost me money to do this. Oh my gosh, but you were doing this while you're going to pain. Yes, and you got through pain in three years. I did people are like you're so smart. I was poor. Or I think I missed a lot of the social experience of being in college. What did you think you miss because I didn't go to college, you know, look, I don't know. I'm gonna get in trouble for saying this but I do think Ivy League schools are kind of like a Eugenics program. I mean, I guess it is the idea is to meet a bunch of people. Sorry legal to meet not that sorry to meet a bunch of people who you're going to marry or develop start businesses with and sororities and fraternities. I never did any of that, but I was like, I got to work I got to get out of here. And I knew that I was going to be a performer and I had a fear in me, which I actually don't have anymore. Now that I've actually been in this business believe it or not. But I had this fear that was like you can't be on camera if you're old so you got to go I had that fear in my brain very early, but a lot of performers I think are told that this was before hi-def television. I was already worried about it like you need to make it while you're young while you'll still be hirable interesting. Yeah, which is what that in your mind. I don't know the movie Sunset Boulevard. Where would I? I've gotten that as a child. I mean I I grew up in DC and I just knew I was like you're there's a day where you'll be old. My mom was very very beautiful and her looks were very important to her and at a very young age. I saw wrinkle creams. I saw masks. I saw a nervousness about I saw this and yeah, isn't that interesting what our parents put on us and I don't think she was even thinking about it. Just I was just watching her. Yeah, and I didn't I lived with her single mom and we didn't have a lot of like TV and I was bored and I would go into her bathroom and put makeup on and it was like anti-wrinkle anti-wrinkle anti-wrinkle, you know, and I just got in my head and I don't blame her for it and that time your looks as a woman was kind of kind of all you did have so good for her for you know, she spending whatever currency she had and hustling as she worked at Neiman Marcus and Bloomingdale's and we'll get a Count so she'd come home with these very fancy creams and I would you know, I but I just started thinking about that at a very young age which breaks my heart on some level but I remember having that at a very young age that thoughts it is interesting. It's interesting that you even like bring that up. Do you want to are you planning on being a mother someday? I am I froze my eggs that shit is on ice and Redondo Beach. It's a big process. Can you walk us through the process I can you hatch. Kidding you I can't so a brilliant writer named Dana Fox. We were on the set of a movie and she was like you need a freeze your eggs. And I was like slaves crazy. How old were you and I was I want to say 2827 maybe as you can maybe younger 27 or 28. I didn't do it for five more years. Okay, but she put this thing in my head. That was like, okay, you're going to freeze your eggs when you get a chance, and she said something that really is someone that grew up without health insurance and car insurance. There's always He's like any time something went wrong. It was like, you know a saga financially and I remember she was like it's like getting Insurance even if you don't use them, you know, you have them in your going to make better decisions because you have them on ice and I remember going okay, I like that. I like that and when I was 33, I did it and the way that my fertility doctor explained it. He really helped me. He just was like look this might not be for your first kid or your second kid. This might be for when you're 42 or 43 and you're like, you know what let's do one more. I'll go. Could it I hadn't heard that yet. That is what made me go. Ah, okay. You're not telling me I can't conceive it 36 or 37. You're not telling me that I'm you know, my uterus is molding like this is okay. I can hear that. This is about just good planning and I'm a very like I like to plan because I think planning is freedom. I also found myself around 30 31 years old lowering my standards for guys because I felt the ticking clock and I was like, yeah, that's fine. What's three ex-wives? It's fine. You're thick-skinned. You don't want totally doesn't have a job what some guy with three DUIs. I'm so judgmental. I found myself, you know lowering my standard because that fear started creeping in us, you know, you start doing that math. Okay, if we go on a date tomorrow in a year, we'll move in together and then we have to get married, but I just that you know, and I was doing that I was okay, then I'll be 35 and then what if I and I was also hearing a lot about women who were trying so hard to conceive but the second Stop trying. Yeah, I don't know the science illness correct me in the comments, but there is something about our bodies when we stopped releasing cortisol and adrenaline. We can conceive better because our body is not in fight or flight time so hard to conceive. Right? Right. So a lot of women that I heard froze their eggs, they had an easier time conceiving solely because they had an insurance policy. You can always use x, so here you are you got your insurance policy the pressure off. The last thing we all need is more pressure, right? So, So once I found out how much money it was I felt a different kind of pressure but I also felt like this is an investment in myself. This is a business decision. It is such a miracle. What happens to your psyche when you freeze your eggs it I started booking tours. I started, you know being in relationships not out of fear. I see my standards for a guy went up. It was miraculous. Wow took away this timeline and this you have a couple of years to find the person see you are smart. Oh my God. Why you got into yes, it's it was a very fear-based decision that ended up leaving my fears. You know, the only thing that bum me out, I got a little bit of fight of a fight with one of the fertility doctors because he was like, oh, you know, so if you have you know, a kid at 37, you know as a geriatric pregnancy and I was like, let me stop you right there. Apparently anything after 35. They called geriatric. Yes. I've heard this I've heard all of it. Like I know way more about pregnancy now then I would hope so I ever yeah six months into this. I'm right. Well should learn Something about that but this is this is awesome. And I do think more people need to be talking about anybody to be talking about it. I think there's there's maternity leave there can also be egg freezing leave the yeah it you get more money as a company's if you let your employees freeze their eggs, yes and arrange for that time off because that's this is the thing. Nobody told me about egg freezing. It is relatively time-consuming, you know, you gotta go in and get those sonograms every other day to see if they're you know, everything properly I The terms you got to bring your shot around with you. It's kind of fun. Yeah, you know, it's just it feels kind of badass to be like just stabbing yourself in the stomach all the time. And then you have to go get them extracted. So it was for me like a three to four month process and I remember being in the car like crying just being like Sheryl Sandberg told me to lean in and here I am, you know, because biology is sexist it is and you but you're also a huge fan of the brain. I think it is a disgrace. That we are not taught the way our brains work the chemicals and neurochemicals that we emit because when women omit certain neurochemicals were called crazy and psycho and insane and women take that shame on and they take that to mean that they failed in some way or they're crazy and they internalize that narrative and I just I made a movie about neurology because I really wanted to show women and men to be able to go. I'm not crazy. I'm just emitting adrenaline and cortisol. And I'll brain. Yep. And this is a fighter Fizzies the name of her movies. Yes, the female brain brain and I wrote it with Neal Brennan co-creators Chappelle Show brilliant comedian. So great. So it's very balanced. It's not like a lady movie. I have men coming up to me on the street going this movie saved my marriage because I Now understand that when my wife freaks out. She's adrenalized and she's producing cortisol and I say, you know, let's talk in three days when the cortisol is worn off. Wow, and developing of vocabulary for neurochemicals. I just think it's such a shame. We don't learn that you're saving marriages and relationships broken up a couple to its joke. It's a joke. I love it. But yeah, I just I get very defensive when women are called crazy or insane or psycho or any of micromanage e sensitive. I think it's really important to learn the evolution of the brain epigenetics. Epi genetic imprinting, you know, can you tell me about yes, Epi genetic imprinting is so important because it Epigenetic, it sounds nice. I like it. I like it. Tell me boy. It's about how the chemicals that the mother releases while the fetus is in utero. The fetus becomes addicted to those chemicals. Okay, so give me an example. So I found myself as a teenager constantly being attracted to you know, dramatic situations dramatic relationship All the gossip on the playground and then in my twenties, I'm dating, you know, really unavailable people people that call cosme Adrenaline cheat on me, whatever and then I started learning about Epi genetic imprinting which is when the neurochemicals of the mother are emitted in utero. The child is born addicted to those chemicals. So I was born addicted to cortisol and adrenaline. My mother was in a really bad marriage when I was conceived. So chances are I came out of the womb like that whatever the mother is addicted to is passed into the neurochemicals of the brain and that liberated me. From wrong. Okay, what's nature and what's nurture some of these things I can that are my part. I need to go to therapy. I need to fix that thing. But also I got this honestly this adrenaline addiction because adrenaline turns into dopamine. It's like a drug drama is like a drug and I became addicted to it in my mom's belly and it's not my fault and I can now hack my brain to change my tolerance to Adrenaline. So okay, two questions. Yes, ma'am. Do you blame your mother? And how do you deal with? It I don't blame my mother. I have nothing but compassion for my mother because that's beautiful. Not only compassion such that makes me feel a little bit better go Reckless forgiveness because that generation didn't know they didn't have the tools and the science wasn't even available back then, you know and the fact that she was staying in a chaotic relationship to try to keep things Serene with her kids and to try to protect her kids breaks my heart every day, you know, because it's just a reminder that when we take care of ourselves, we actually take care of Buddy else, you know her Instinct was got to take care of the kids got to stay in this chaotic relationship. And then the tragic irony is that that actually is you know, sometimes harder and how do you deal with all of these issues now today? I mean I did after I learn about neurology because also both my parents had strokes and so I had to talk to a neurologist all day everyday to understand what happened. I have a lot of addiction in my family as well and when you're struggling with, you know people that you love that are suffering addiction learning about neurology and how Addiction works is the only thing that will stop your heart from getting broken every day. So I had this kind of Crash Course and how to hack your brain. So for me, I worked so hard to stay away from dramatic situations to lower my adrenaline and cortisol levels. I try to stay off Instagram. I try to stay off gossip sites. I try I was going to say like Instagram kind of I mean it'll constant a dry roll you. Yep to self-doubt self-worth. You know, who is this person dating now? Yep, I have someone that Those are social you do good for you someone I Outsource it to somebody else as a form of self care. I put my phone in grayscale, which makes it black and white because a lot of wood so addictive about it is the color. Oh, that's I know. I didn't even know you were this tan. Ha ha ha. Oh no, Jimmy Coco spray tan Halal. I know right? I need to me Coco my mob. I know when I just have to accept it. You just look so healthy and like you sleep. Well, no, I'm not sleeping. And is it hard to sleep with that? Yeah, you have like a Body pillow. Yeah. Oh God. My husband. He's like you have no use for me anymore. I'm like, I'm you can rub my feet. It's so cute. I'm terrified of being pregnant. I know that's learned epigenetics. Okay, so terrified because I'm like, no one can trust me out when I'm pregnant, but that's it is important to not be stressed out because it does like you said go to the baby and like people have told me like don't be in stressful situations, but I work out I try to eat. Well like I am going with my Cravings my Cravings have been really healthy. Which is a blessing and I'm just trying to work and stay focused and also like gain information about my baby, but the I try to step away from Fear because this is just this has been going on like this is how we got here thousands of years right before on it. And it's going to continue to women used to do this without doctors exactly how and now I want what the documentary that Ricki Lake did The Business of Being Born you have to watch it. Gosh. It is so good. I read the Naomi Wolf book about the forces. Aryan sections and stuff and I almost had a heart attack. It is really ridiculous. How cesareans are a business. Yes, unless I mean there are the moments where like you have to have them but it's a business right? And so you have no fear around this I so after seeing the documentary now, I just want to have an at-home birth. Like I want to be able to stand and squat and push my baby out and like pull it out of me and put it right on my chest. But out is that how it works. Yeah, you push the head out and then as the shoulders Kind of coming out there like okay go down and pull your baby out. And then you like you're squatting you pull it out and you're like a miracle and then you're just like glad you're vocalizing it off first. No people kiss their babies in their lips get stuck to their faces like the Christmas story like the tongue and you have a phone pole will not that stuck, but we could probably go on forever, but I this is so wonderful to see and I think that like visibility for women that are pregnant while they're working is so important because I just might I still have in my head. You have to stop down for a year. No, that's an old story that I have in my head. I had that too. I had it too and I had like you have to have a baby in a hospital. You have to have it all those things. Now. I'm working up until this due date and then after that I'm going to take like eight weeks off something like this. We're going to go from there. Yeah, I'm going to have the kid on my tit. We're just gonna go. Yep. Yep. This is very exciting inspiring. I mean, I just think the pregnant I can like hardly carry a purse. You'll be fine. Okay. I want to talk about your book. I'm fine. And Other Stories or other lies. Yeah, otherwise, somebody lies a lot Litany of life, but I like how you're so open about codependency. Thank you. And I feel like my readers my readers. Are you guys reading them for you guys? Are you guys I feel like my viewers and listeners AudioBox. I mean most people get the audio but I feel like they can really learn something from your experiences codependency. You know, I have been so public about it because I think it is it is this epidemic that's sort of everywhere but hard to identify and you know, it's part of The Narrative of I'm just crazy. I'm a psycho, you know, and a lot of people who are codependent are the type of people who it wouldn't occur to them to think about themselves because we are the type of people Pleasers who are only thinking about others rescuing martyring and can you explain like what some examples are sure so we're like what exactly it is the like charcoal definition so codependency the definition that I work off of which Didn't make up but it is the inability to tolerate the discomfort of others. Yes it a lot of people think of codependency is like couples who can't stop hanging out that could be that but that's also a Litany of other things. But if you find yourself obsessed with someone else's perception of you, if you find yourself thinking that, you know, you need to take care of other people's feelings. If you have a hard time saying no, if you find yourself being addicted to control always need to control a situation if you find yourself embarrassed about other people's behavior you think you need to Take care of everybody and deal with their consequences. Got it on the consequences of others. If you find yourself in relationships or friendships that don't really make you feel good. But you feel like you have to stay in them codependents use words. Like we have to go to this thing. I have to get him a gift. I have to go to this party. We do a lot of things out of obligation because we're worried that we're going to lose the approval of others are not be liked if we don't go we put everybody else's needs ahead of our own. So when did you find out that you had codependency? I really put it together. When I was became a boss for the first time and I found that I was hiring all my friends, even though none of them were qualified and I was trying to help you. I know yes. I want to give everybody a job, which there's something to be said for that, you know, and I still am able to do that the Heart of Gold but we're loyal but now but that doesn't ultimately end up being the kind thing to do because it blows up and becomes a big mess and that person doesn't learn about, you know, earning it and consequences and what have you so I've earned that we take care of everybody when we take care of ourselves and that you know, we don't bring our personal feelings into work and we don't do things out of guilt or obligation and we don't confuse love with pity. Sometimes we do things out of pity instead of out of you know mutual respect or we could inflate love and pity and kindness is not always kind right and being nice is not always being nice. So here you are your boss. So when we do a nice thing and hire someone that you know, shouldn't necessarily have the job and then we resent them the whole time because Not doing it, right and then everybody else on staff has to clean up the mess. That's not really kind as it is making a big mess because you want to be liked or you want to do the nice thing. So that was tricky. I found myself not being able to fire people. I found myself not being able to give honest feedback because I was too worried about making someone feel bad or them feeling rejected and I went to a rehab for a family therapy group and I brought a giant thing of protein bars and close and cash. Like to help the person in my life that was in rehab in there like you're no but he doing you're trying to fix addiction with with protein bars. Get out of here. You can you know, I found myself so desperate to fix somebody else and rescue somebody else that I wasn't actually doing the right thing for the person. So, you know, we run around trying to help people all day as a way to get out of our own feelings something that I heard early and a 12-step program was people-pleasing as a form of asshole or E. It's kind of sometimes it's selfish. Because it's not really what the person needs the person might but you need the person might need to if you find yourself in the middle of someone's relationship drama all the time and listening to them every night talked about over and over but there were maybe they do stop talking about it and they need you to actually draw a boundary, you know, and or say no so I found myself enabling a lot of people with addictions and personality disorders and went to my first 12 sub. Al-Anon meeting was a game changer total Game Changer. Wow, because I found that you know, where as alcoholics can be addicted to alcohol codependents are addicted to pee. People who are a mess. So what are these programs look like these programs are basically free therapy and I see so many solvent Rich famous people now talking about therapy and that's so cool. The one thing relieving out is that it's $300 an hour. Yeah, and not everybody has access to that. Right? So like I'm gonna freeze my eggs. So I think as someone who did not grow up with money, I really appreciate the fact that it's free. And open and available to anyone and it's not elitist and there's also people from all walks of life who are in there keeping you humble. And what's so great to me about 12 step programs is that you know, when we share our shortcomings when we shared vulnerabilities in see someone like what you're doing right now nod you're able to go. Okay. I'm not crazy and you're tearing me you're able to have Grace and someone's not judging me and I'm not a disgusting piece of shit. You know, you're not going when you say like, I really want to text this x who Is awful to me and cheated on me, but I kind of want to reach out to him anyway, and people go in there and you're like, okay, I'm not crazy. So these this inner critic that we have of I'm a failure. I'm a mess. All of these things goes away because you have a group of people that look at you saying been there and you talk about codependency Landing you is some pretty terrible relationships. Yeah, nasty. What if you learn from that codependence we tend to shape-shift in order to make a relationship work we tend to Make sure you know, the temperature is always 70 degrees audition for approval every day. Whatever you want to eat. I'm going to eat your vegan. I'm vegan you eat meat I eat me, you know, we've you know, you like Mexican. I like Mexican anything to sort of get approval of the person we want to be in the relationship with we end up compromising our values morals boundaries and bottom lines in order to make a relationship work. So I found myself in the relationship. I'm in now is the first time experimented with hey, I need you to call me every day. If you can't that's totally fine. If you think I'm crazy, that's totally fine. But I finally know what I need and that's something I need and how empowering that you can say that to the person you're dating and he was so wild because I thought he'd go yuck your crazy bitch psycho. And he was just like oh, thank you for being so clear. I like I don't want to be guessing what you want. He was trying to play it cool by texting and didn't want to call too much and I was like, I would like to hear from you every day. Uh-huh is a phone call. So in recovery, What we do is we find out what we actually want and then how to ask for it and how to walk away if we're not getting it. I love that which is maybe something I should have gotten as a child in a lot of people do but if you grew up in an environment where you weren't parented in a certain way or we're in an environment where nobody really said what they felt and everyone was like no I'm fine. Everything's good. That's how my family was when there were problems. Nobody addressed it and everybody pretended they were fine when they weren't and so that's what I learned. I learned a kind of dishonest communication. That doesn't benefit. Ready? So you talk about a lot of problems you do. I mean by Brad, it's kind of a lot of them's it's awesome though because you're so open because everybody needs to talk about these things and you just so happen to have a few. So when I just I you're open I see the most exciting thing in my lifetime is happening right now, which is that women are becoming bosses. Yep, and they have shows with 500 cameras and they are making money and they Employees and they're getting in the workforce and we weren't really parented to be able to manage conflict. We were parented to establish Harmony and make sure everything was okay and make sure men's feelings were okay and that women weren't mad at us. Right? That's how we've been conditioned, right? You know, and that was a big part of my co-dependents. And so I sound the horn on this so much because it helps us once we get these opportunities were fighting so hard for we're not going to screw them up. I try to be friends with everyone. No, I'm making Sherman likes us. Exactly and I think that that's very important because a lot of women Do you have that kind of it's like a ticking Time Bomb them? Yeah, and I have to remind myself to like what would a man do I do? I ask myself that. Yeah, you ask yourself that I ask myself that some sometimes I think that way or I go what would a man do I let me how do I not do that or or I do I am what I worry about being friends with everybody or yeah. You know, yes, not all men always have to say that hashtag Not all men. I know but I do think that that we do want to make sure nobody's feelings are hurt and the key is managing being sensitive and being emotionally intelligent without being codependent exact. There's a line intelligent. That's the key. I like that if an employee is underperforming because they don't feel seen or heard or the workflow. Yeah isn't something that works with the way their brain is wired. It's always helped to go. Hey, how can we make this so You know, we're able to have more Harmony without going and what's going on with your family. And your how can I fix your marriage and all that other? Let's go get drinks and hang out on the weekend. I don't do that. So for five hike day. So in your latest special that's called Whitney Cummings. Can I touch it? Yeah, every time I say it in my head, I'm like gonna touch it. I know it's such a it's such a weirdly like triple entendre title. And the reason I call it that is because I had this robot made for the show Ridiculous. And I talked a lot about sexual harassment in the show how men were grabbing asses and you know being inappropriate but when men sell my robot there were like and I was like, where is this at all this when it comes to a human woman? Like why don't you don't ask that when you you know, so I just thought that was interesting that is so it's so when I saw the robot come out, yeah watching your you're special. I mean, first of all, I was like a really look like you and really it was not that it was the Up. It was the hair. It was it was creepy, you know what's wild about this because I feel like your fans are you know in this world? I don't think she looks like me really here's why we have a little cross-eyed. We don't you're not cross-eyed. She was a little cross-eyed Charlie probably side. Yes. Yes. She did that her eye one of her eyes were fixing so it's an optical surgery because home is she cost. Oh honey. Can I touch it? She's my 50 grand 50 to 70. Yes. Yeah, she's getting her eyes are going to be camera soon and we're working on more facial muscles so that her smile isn't all like creepy and just prepare crowing why you spent 25 minutes of your special with her with her. And by the way, I have to no joke. I've already lapped her in terms of age in the year. I've had her so we're adding little wrinkles roads are so my God. We looked the same a year ago, and I haven't slept so now I you know, I look like the old age app version of her. So we're aging her up. All that but something fascinating that I found out is we only see ourselves through mirrors. So we don't really know what we look like, you know, in addition to whatever other dysmorphia we're struggling with. She doesn't creep me out because I don't see myself that way. That's how other people see me God it's so that's why you don't think you look like that's right. Is that why I feel like she looks a lot like you I understand what you're saying. Well optical illusions. Everyone thinks she looks exactly like me, except me and it there was a weird because you think you look better or worse. I think I look just just different. Okay. This experience has been pretty therapeutic for the body dysmorphia that I deal with because you have talked about this. I had Eating Disorders my whole life. I now it's a have disordered eating. I think it's dangerous to say like I cured my eating disorder. I think I so it means you're constantly thinking about it still but it's not plaguing your life exact. I have thoughts come up. Sometimes that are like you should have a Diet Coke for dinner and then I'm like, no you shouldn't whereas I used to think that was a good idea. I now think it's a bad idea. So I think for anyone to say, you know, just in terms of how Eating Disorders work because so much of it for me was about control and so when things get a little out of control and I get a little busy and I don't have time to go to the gym. Sometimes my brain will go. Oh, yeah, you should just have like Life Savers and nothing else and then I go no, we're going to go home and we're going to make a meal and we're going to cancel that thing and make sure we create because you've actually gone and you've gotten help now, you know how to handle all these situations. Yeah. I did pretty amazing. Sort of boot camp on inner child work, which I first thought was ridiculous because it was like I had an imaginary child. This is creepy. I don't like this like the I would always think of the the kids from The Shining those two girls at the end of the hallway. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yes, but it really is you having a relationship with your own inner child and the cheat for me was you feed yourself the way you would feed a five-year-old child, you know as soon as if your own five-year-old you would make sure have Three meals and you know eat healthy and you wouldn't want to give him a complex your go. Yeah sure. You can have that piece of cake or whatever but then as adults were like you shouldn't eat that. That's what you should skip dinner you use just you know, drink black coffee all day. You would never let a child be like that. So it's just a little bit of if I was feeding a five-year-old. How would I feed her because of the eating disorder your boobs were they grew in different sizes? Okay. However, as I've talked what I have minor different sizes this one hangs more than that one. You know, what? Are you right-handed or left-handed? I'm right-handed but I sleep with my hand up. So it's pulling might it over really get it out on my own. I didn't have to go to a doctor after I talked on stage about how my boobs were different sizes women come up to me. Like I thought I was the only one. I mean, I think this is a I don't think any woman's boobs are symmetrical know they're not how unsymmetrical Warriors. I mean they were they were they were like it really like a Salvador Dali painting like the clocks dripping off the So three surgery it was three surgeries because the first surgery I was so embarrassed to tell anyone. I was so embarrassed to get it done. I had so much shame around it that I like Googled it and just went to some guy by the airport and he like didn't have an office. I know this is before the boner ability within everywhere when that when this happened this was before like, let me share my flaws and let's all talk about how like frozen we are these girls are getting Like 16 year old like birthday presents or like oh, here's some fruit it. Yeah, I think maybe because I'm in comedy or I'm okay just like shame around my body in general and I guess my emotional perfectionism was I don't want to tell anyone that I'm doing this thing. I didn't involve any of my girlfriend's I didn't tell anyone and I finally let a girlfriend in on what happened when there was like a muscle was cut through and she was like, oh just go to my guy. What are you doing? All my girlfriend's like will go to my person go to my person and two friends had reductions would go to my and there was no Same route. It was all in my head. Wow. Anyone that has judgment around that shouldn't be your friend. Anyway, yeah, but none of them did I know I show them my friends might it's great. I mean I've yet to see them, but maybe it's because of all the cameras. But so I just I had so much shame around that because I think I'd worked so hard to like accept my body that I thought this was like a setback, you know, but for me, it was really about sort of a racing in a big way like the sort of the things that reminded me of the disordered eating and what my body was like back then and I really just wanted to get past that stage because every do you look at them now and you're happy love them. Love them. I mean, I have scars and all sorts of stuff, but I'm if if I'm if I don't then who will back to the robots really quick just because I watched a special on them and I heard that a lot of people just buy them to have sex with is that the research that you had gotten as well. There's so the actual robots. There's not a I mean I would have met they're so expensive. But I think you know a lot of guys like us act like he's totally so there are the real doll sex dolls that are specifically for sex. Okay, so there is the sex doll - robot head which not a lot of these have been made yet. Right, but the sex dolls I would imagine that's the purpose they serve when I went down to the sex robot Factory actually learned some very interesting research because I thought it was going to be a bunch of perverted gross Madness. Just just Fest Don't take a black light to it, but they were explaining a lot of people that buy these are handicapped or it's a lot of people who are trying to explore their sexuality and they're not ready to do it with a human woman. Yeah, I'm sure a lot of it are skeezy gross. I also heard it's like men who don't want to deal with women anymore. Well, there's that or men with erectile dysfunction or whatever have lost whatever I would imagine. There's a little bit of that and for those men good. Yeah stick with it. All right. I don't want the men that are done with women to be out of bar. It's beyond gender. I'm a big fan of what about the thing that works for them? It's like Scientology keep them in a building keep them in a building. And you know, I think comedians sort of our job is to play Devil's Advocate sometimes and to go. Okay. Everyone is against this one thing. I'm going to challenge myself to find all the positives in it. You did a good job with that. Thank you, and I don't totally think sex robots are going to fix everything. I did think it was an interesting sort of joke solution. Until we figure out the sexual harassment thing like an interim the way we would use like Crash Test Dummies or something to stop real women from getting harmed was the Joker I was in but I did find that the fear of robots did feel largely male in terms of whether it's movies. We've seen or ever but I have you know, a lot of my guy friends will robots are going to kill us and the robots are going to be stronger than us, but well women are always dealing with that like like something stronger than us that might eventually kill us. Like that's every guy we've ever It in like this is the first time you guys have ever had something that might kill you. So true, you know think about so I was like the robots might protect us from you. I would like to just Dawn on you. I'd like to have a big scary robot and every parking structure at two in the morning when I walked to my car and you know, people are saying well the robots are going to replace human women. I'm like, well I every woman I know would love to have a double. I know I love that part in your special. You're like, yeah because you're expected to be everything and anything and of course, I want somebody at home cooking and cleaning robots. Cook and clean. Yes, please sign me up. I don't do it. Anyway. Yeah, but I don't I'm almost the perfect woman. I just don't cook the perfect woman knows her limitations. Hey, okay, I want to talk about because you like talking about and you're very open yours. Just so open it leaves like an open box, which looks like yeah. I do love how your boobs just gentle around. Oh, I know that's unbelievably Wishy milk so much you talk about failure in a really great way that I think that this Next Generation really needs to understand because you have had five specials. You have Whitney you had Two Broke Girls and you got to this place. I was like amazing, but I want to know what what how did you get there? Because it couldn't have been easy and I want to hear about it. You know what I think for me? It's taken me a long time to realize that like failure is so rare. I mean having a show on the air for six years like I don't think that's a lie. Like I never thought I was going to get any of this. Yeah. I just want to big deal want to pay my bills. Right and be able to tell jokes for drunk people and that's all I wanted, you know, and so anything else is extra credit bonus points. And you know, I think that it did it was hard for me when I did a show on NBC which had my name on it, you know, this was before there were a million shows on television that got you know, picked up cancel picked up cancelled. It was like having a Shogun publicly canceled was did feel humiliated. But I did a talk show to sitcom. How long have you done have you done after calls Insurance? How could this be a failure? What are you talking about? But you talk about failure. Yes. And what sent in our Echo chamber I felt like a failure because I think in my head I was like this should go for eight years and be Seinfeld or something, you know and shooting for the Moon is great. But if you don't get there, you don't have to go I'm of you know failure. So at the time I was definitely embarrassed in dated because I thought everyone all anyone was talking about was how big of a failure I was and when reality people like Chad show on the air great what happened to that? Yeah, because I was I mean in like figuring out all the shows that you had done and in talking to my writers variants, I was like, yeah, but she's had so many shows. I just don't understand but you have been so open about failure. So that's why I really wanted to get to the bottom of and I think I've also had a lot of shows that never got on the air so I had a you know deal with HBO. I had before I had a Shogun on the air. I had three Pilots didn't go and I've been very public about not just talking about my highlight reel because I think a lot of people might look at someone like you and go she's had this since she has her own podcast and she's on the cover these magazines and she's got all these followers of like we don't broadcast the things we didn't get we don't broadcast the auditions that we you know, didn't book or the TV shows. That didn't go right because nobody wants to cover that and you're not going to get a magazine cover for a pilot. That didn't go too serious. So I try to go like you know failure is a part of the learning process and failure is a integral part of success. I think God I had three shows that didn't go by the time I had a show that did go because then I knew how to freaking right that was all practice. So I don't like calling it failure. I like to call practice, you know, because you don't go to the like if you're a bodybuilder when you go to the gym, you're not calling those failure days, you're calling those like workout days, right? And so I just I like to I did you call them that I'm practice its Practice, so I had two pilots that didn't go but those were practice they weren't meant to go. Thank God they didn't go I like that and I do think for you know, younger people that are embarking on this journey. Just I promise you the thing right now that you want so bad that you didn't get you're going to look back and go thank God. I didn't get that. I always say if I didn't get a job. It wasn't mine and it took a couple of jobs to not get love it going through the anxiety the worried the like, oh my God, my life is over moments. Yep, but because I didn't get those jobs. Thank God. I didn't get those. As Jobs they weren't my no bigger opportunities come never were and that is I think it took me so long to understand that and I see a lot of people who are blowing up their careers if they got something too soon and they didn't have the Gratitude yet and they had eaten enough shit yet. So when they did get it, they blew it. Boom. What's next for Whitney Cummings? I'm starting a podcast. It's called good for you. And it's all just people coming on talking about things that have been good for them in a funny way the you know that sort of deal a lot of comedians coming on. That's great. I'm just I'm just Very excited when women get into a space that men use their confidence to get into and we're like, I don't know I'd if I'm good enough and I have to be perfect and I don't want to take up any space and I was like, look, I'm going to go take up space Oh take up as much space as you want Whitney Cummings. The last thing we do on pretty big deal is a little lightning round. Okay. I just need you to answer the question. Okay, I feel like this is going to so what's the last pretty penny you spent a podcast Studio guests in yourself. I built a podcast studio in my home so that I can wake up and Walk right to it. I love that. I can be rested and I'm not driving. What's the biggest deal breaker selfies for men? Ha ha ha that is until I know with my friends or with men anything. You just said it. That's that's a deal breaker being a DJ. Oh, yeah. Okay. Got it. Okay, so you're obviously a pretty big deal because I only have pretty big deals on my show. I like that. What's a pretty big deal to you? It's a pretty big deal to me when someone does the right thing when no one. Oh my God, my guest right before you just said that that's plagiarism. Hey, how are you guys read? You should befriend. Hello Whitney cause his stinky stealing my brain. I'm becoming this on my podcast. Okay everybody at home. We want to hear from you. Please comment on Instagram and Twitter be nice be nice because the person who runs her social media will come for you or I will cook for you. So make sure sure to watch share. We love you guys, too. Pretty big deal is produced by pretty big deal Productions and obb sound.
Ashley Graham sits down with the hilarious Whitney Cummings! Whitney is a comedian, actress, writer, director, producer, show-runner, author, and most recently — host of the Good For You podcast. Her latest comedy special Can I Touch It? debuted on Netflix this summer featuring a life-sized robot clone of Cummings. In this episode, we talk about comedy, codependency and so much more. HOST: Ashley Graham GUEST: Whitney Cummings EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: Ashley Graham, Penni Thow, Scooter Braun EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: Michael D. Ratner, Scott Ratner, Miranda Sherman CO-EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: Kelsey McWilliams, Ava Coleman, Kfir Goldberg, Elias Tanner DIRECTED BY: Michael D. Ratner WRITER: Ava Coleman LINE PRODUCER: Ben Shafer ASSOCIATE PRODUCER: Ilyssa Walker RESEARCHER: Shahnaz Mahmud SOCIAL MEDIA MANAGER: Natasha Janardan DIRECTOR OF PHOTOGRAPHY: Lars Lindstrom PRODUCTION DESIGNER: Francesca Maldonado 1ST ASSISTANT DIRECTOR: Coleen Chan EDITORS: Shandor Garrison, Sarah-Rose Meredith MAIN TITLE THEME BY: Johannes Raassina, Lefteris Ioannou POST PRODUCTION SUPERVISOR: Ben Shafer SOUND MIXER: Icemen Audio TITLE THEME PRODUCER: Johannes Raassina PRODUCTION SOUND: Blake Christian DATA MANAGEMENT: Rachel Slott PRODUCTION ASSISTANTS: Susie Bijan, Naomi Montes, Dalton Short ADDITIONAL PRODUCTION SUPPORT: Jennifer Spottz PRODUCED BY: Pretty Big Deal Productions, OBB Picture & OBB Sound SPECIAL THANKS: Mina White, IMG Models 