Yo, yo, yo, hey guys, whats Poppin jocks laid here and we're back with the outside the box podcast. Of course this show is the show you love it's about sneakers is about technology and it's also about relationship advice. If you are in a bind and you need someone to help coach you through then you've come to the right place, but more than that, you know, we're also here to talk about sneakers and stuff. But this show wouldn't be what it is.If it was just me, I know the the silky sounds of my voice are hypnotizing. But if you really if you really dig into the actual words that I'm saying outside of the of the base heavily lovingness loveliness of the voice. You see that it's empty that there's really nothing there. And that's why we really have the really two of the most important people on this podcast. We have Tiffany beers and the involved Nick go ahead and tell them where they can find you. Nick Engvall Aetna Kingsville and IC ke n GV all on all platforms and as sneaker history on all platforms and I love how I love how usually were very modest sat on these introductions, but doctors went all in and just was like know you're here for my voice. So, I don't know Tiffany. How do you live up to that? I mean silky smooth boys anybody. I'm Tiffany beers. You can find me at Tiffany beers on Instagram and YouTube and it is my Entertainment Tonight to talk at these two about sneakers. I'm just I'm just I'm just telling I just told you know just saying it how it is people, you know, they really come here to listen to you guys. You guys get all the facts to give the truth to give the honesty you give like valuable information and I just ramble about whatever comes to mind with that being said, I'm not at home. I'm an Airbnb and I feel weird about being in somebody else. Like I don't know if you've ever if you guys have ever been in an air B&B, but like I just have this Natural Curiosity like I want to learn everything I can about the person whose house. I'm living it. I think that's new but in you're not supposed to do that. Yeah, like I don't know if you should say that, you know until all right, but like I'm looking at the books like I'll make a judgment based on the books that they have on the bookshelf like looking. Looking at like the college paraphernalia. Like there's a lighter just sitting on the shelf. So I'm like as they are they a smoker like are the is it cigarettes? Is it we'd are there is this a weed-heads house? Like I don't know there's just so many anyway. Okay - Pete. Are you I'm in North Carolina. Let me stop judging people baby, right? It's a lovely home though. It is a lovely home. I'll say that it is a lovely home enough about My personal tribulations and trials. All right, let's get this show started. So we got some comments from you guys, which we always love. So if you ever want to send us comments, please do it's outside pods on Instagram on Twitter were on Tinder Rome Bumble grinder run all of those places. Maybe just Instagram and Twitter. Maybe I was hoping we were on Either but that's good. Obviously, it's not going to happen. But you can if you want to find it just just look for outside pods. And anyway, you can DM us and we got a DM from I think this was a rib fresh to death and make sure I said that right ya Rabb fresh to death. And the question is you want to know a time we fell for the hype and regretted it once the hype faded. So I'm I'm gonna I'll start this one off. So I Shoe that I kind of felt. Well, I can't say that the hype faded but I did kind of get caught up in the hype was with when the Yeezys first release with the 750 and the 350. So because in part it's part personal in part because of my job, so I'll say part because my job is is sneakers and I need to know all about Sneakers but also part of just, you know wanting to be a part of that cool crowd like I fall victims of that just like everybody else so I bought Yeezys early on so I have maybe Six or seven pair of Yeezys and I have yet to wear one pair. I have literally never worn them. I've taken them out the box. I've shown them the people people have come to my house and they've taken them out the box and looked at them, but I have actually never worn them. And it just I just didn't really do the silhouette didn't really speak to me at the end of the day and I think that's what matters most at. The end of the day like am I really going to wear this? And is it does it speak to me enough to where I'm actually going to wear it, but then I also think it got to the point where just everybody had them and everybody was wearing them. And so that kind of pushed me away from wearing them because like I don't want to show up in 10 different people have on the same pair of shoes that I have. So I think that also kind of hit me and then it just got to the point where it was kind of like, all right. Now, I'm over it. Like I'm just over Yeezys now and like now I have them and I just have no really no interest. In wearing them. I just I don't know I guess the the appeal is gone for me. So I don't know if that's the kind of story you're looking for red fresh to death. But that's that's my angle out sauce. I'll toss it over to Tiffany see what Heights open to hear from Nick first. Okay. Well, let's go to Nick, you know, this is really hard because I don't think that like I don't think I fall for the hype as much as I do like I fall for my own hype in you know, like like retro product. For instance. Like I love Nike basketball from the 90s, right? So I'll buy like like the recent Penny Retros or like the Maestro Retros. But like the worst one was the are up from a couple of years ago. They did like this. Like plastic vacuum Tech thing and I guess I just didn't realize that's what it was. But I was so hyped to get it because it was one of the shoes that Penny Hardaway war and right, you know the like kind of like black white black white across the side with a big blue swoosh. I just thought I mean it was like one of my favorite shoes when I was you know, younger and I mean that shoe hurt my feet so bad like I wore it. I wore it. I think I wore it like at the time I was working at Finish Line and I wore it to work one time and gave them away. I just took them to Goodwill because I was just like there's just no way I'll ever wear these again. Wow, it may be. Yeah, I might add I might have given it a second try which would have been me hyping it up to say. No. This is really cool enough to put up with the pain and never is that a good idea, but that's that's what comes to mind. I think of like bad decisions based on my own hyping up a product in my head. Yeah. Did I give you enough time Tiffany? Here's the core of a problem for me. I mean grace. Sorry Nick, if you have to buy moleskin to wear shoe. It's probably not her. Right right, the hype is not real. So for me, I would say, you know, since I left Nike, you know, I think I got caught up in the hype on. The element 85 because I thought it looks really awesome. I really love it. But when you wear it, it is uncomfortable. Unless you're wearing tall socks. It is uncomfortable blisters red hot spots, you know, I mean uncomfortable shoe and actually doesn't look that good once it's on so I feel like that is one that I got caught up in the hype of but then I sold mine on eBay. So I made a little bit of margin so I was you know not too upset about it, but I have to say as an There were many many times. I mean as an employee you don't end up with a collection of 300 pairs of shoes without thinking something's going to be hype right? I mean, I found myself buying shoes that I did not like like so for example when the wedge came out for women, right and the Sky High dunks. I thought oh, these are going to be great there. So they're on point finally a woman's shoe. They are so uncomfortable. It's ridiculous. So, you know like there was a there was an example where I bought two or three pair and literally just gave them to Goodwill as I was moving because the I never wore them they still had tags on them. So I am not a good example of pipe or do I know what's going to be hype and so I only focus on buying shoes that I really like and that they're comfortable and I'm actually going to use and wear and have a purpose for so it's kind of anti hype but at the same time, you know, How far to the hype from time to time the Brand's rely on it? Yeah, you know, it's interesting absolutely thinking about this like I think like an in this is kind of a little bit of a tangent from the the question itself, but I think that like shoes like the first easy from Nike or any of the Jeremy Scott stuff right with Adidas from years back. We're like the design was so different than like the normal of what we were used to from that era that those are like the shoes like I bought like some of the Jeremy Scott wings like I don't regret it because I love those shoes. I got the denim ones and I wear them occasionally but like the trend for that is so far off now that I just feel like right. Can you ever wear that again? And I kind of feel the same way like the easy one just when I look at it seems so dated to me now compared to especially compared to like the Nike easy to write like the step from the one to the to was like like Any mental to me, like I think you know, oh, that's nice. I completely disagree. I'm sorry. Exactly completely disagree. I mean the Yeezy one was pure it was there was a purity to it. I still think it's a great looking shoe and there's shoes out there trying to copy it still I mean the easier to was okay, but it was it was like, you know, I got my first round this is What I'd learned and here I'm going to go after it again, but the easy one. I mean, I'm biased guys be honest. I worked at Nike at that time. I may have worked on that project. I may have samples. I still love us there. They're awesome. I think they're super great. That was a super awesome project. So you do you feel like that the to didn't wasn't enough of a step away from the one like do you feel like it was like just the formula just was repeated with different. Pieces, you know, I wasn't involved with the to at all. So I don't know the actual story behind it. But the story behind the one is really pure it's really solid. It was a different experience for me because I got to work on the product, you know, I got to work with the designers. I got to work with all the people involved with it. And so it was a really cool project was difficult. It was very difficult was challenging for sure, but it was fascinating at the same time, you know bringing someone. On that isn't used to the shoe industry and bringing them up to speed and bringing them into it. And that whole experience was was truly amazing. I'm grateful for that experience in the two. I didn't understand I didn't understand what the story was. I didn't understand what the why behind it. I mean very clearly understood the why in the first one and I don't know if that was communicated well, but I think the first one offered like an interesting, you know, you got the big strap and you got like you got a difference. Wasn't happening at that time in the market. Like there was there was some really interesting things going on with that shoe and challenges made where the two was just like, you know, I did it once I'm doing it again and everyone's gonna love it and and they did and they wanted it, you know, it was definitely in demand probably for more than the first ones but I didn't understand the story behind it. You know. Wow, two things here first. There's someone in the comments going talk that talk today. Yes, yes about it. But on the second part like I honestly feel like I'm in Nick's bow. I like the easy two more than I like the easy one. I thought yeah. I just I thought the easy to was like a Slicker more slim version of it and this make you know and talk speak from my own bias when it comes to sneakers and the styles that I like. But yeah, I definitely lean more towards the to than I do towards the Wine, but it's interesting now to hear your perspective, you know from as a designer that you look at the that you look at the one as as more pure and and speaks in resonates more with you than the to yeah. I mean the to have new tooling right you have so you have a new missile when I say to lambing Mid someone out. So you have a custom-designed midsole and outsole based on what the designer or the collaborators want where the one you know, we reuse Used we reuse the tooling so which is arguably more challenging but I think I think there's good and bad stew both, but I just you know, you know, to be honest I didn't I didn't pay much attention to the to you know, but I really think you know, you look at the what's the Jordan 1. That's the who's the guy that used to be associated with Kanye? And then now he's got his own collab with Jordan. This is terrible. Don't think Don see right that day. See shoe with the strap to me just looks a lot like the easy one. Yeah, like it's taking a lot of hints from the easy one. And and I really like that shoe. I think it looks really great. Like it's a little bit Slimmer. It's a little more minimal than they easy one. But at the same time it's like it's kind of going after the exact same look it's like a little bulky a little tough strappy protected you like you're ready for everything. You're kind of ready for. Nothing in those shoes. Yeah, and and and I love this. I hundred percent agree with you Tiffany on like the storytelling aspect of it. Right because especially the timing of all that like well not to pick on Kanye but he wasn't quite as insane as he is now or you know through the years so like that first that first like him like doing a little bit of stuff with Louis Vuitton and seeing like these samples pop up from you know, Reebok and Nike and like then finally seeing like what he created that to me was way more way cooler. What like I was I was way more like invested in the like I didn't get the shoes. But like I was way more invested in the whole story the whole process trying to get the shoes like when the two came out I like it aesthetically better, but you're absolutely right. There was no story. There was no it, you know and part of that. Really has to do with him potentially leaving Nike or what? I don't know when that actually happened versus when the shoe came out but like it felt like it felt like the whole package in the whole marketing side of it to tell those stories wasn't there for the to like, you know at all almost. So even it doesn't surprise me that even you being fairly close to that whole world when it's happening didn't understand or didn't get to get the the message because it's I felt like it didn't exist hardly at all. Yeah, and to be totally honest I have nothing to do with the to I didn't even know what was going on when it was going on, you know, like like so I wasn't associated with it all but at the same time like, you know, if you if you go and create something and the first time you make it you make mistakes, right because you just don't know and the second time you're like, you know, if I could do that again, I would do this differently and and that's kind of what to me the easy to was like if I could improve this based on what I just learned. This is this This is what I do, but that's also why the easy one is so beautiful because you don't know what you don't know and you give it a shot and you go for it. And that's what you got where the easy to is. Like. I've been down this road. Once this is what I do, you know, you're striving for Perfection more and I like the rough and rawness a little bit better. I respect that. Yeah, I respect that. I love that. That's a cool. That's cool to hear that perspective. Yeah, I'm gonna throw one last you out here that I thought. Going to be huge but wasn't the Nike Air Zoom Mariah Flyknit racer and I'll leave it at that because I know no one else cares. I thought you was gonna be good. Why not be resumed Mariah? Yep, the Mariah Flyknit racer. I thought it was going to be big. I thought people I was like, oh people are going to love this shoe. It's going to be go gangbusters as they say on the news and it did not it did not know one. I don't even think it was a blip on the on anyone's radar and actually did a video about that admitting that and people were like, yeah, we wish everyone was like, yeah, we thought that she was going to be bigger but it didn't so it is what it is. I'll take that loss on my own and go to my grave with it. But next up is something that I did was this brought up by by someone in the dmsr. I think this is something we want to talk about with goat and Kyle kuzma. So he Signed to go if I'm if we make sure I remember this right he signed to go and he's going to wear whatever shoes from goat. He wants that are Nikes obviously because he's a Nike athlete but we haven't really heard much from them about it, which is weird because it seems like that's something that you would hype up if you have an NBA player as a part of your roster. Has anyone heard anything about it our know anything else that's happened outside of like that first initial announcement. I haven't so this this came from drema Gray on Instagram. Yeah. I haven't heard anything about it since they announced it. I mean they announced it mid-october. I want to say right and you know, I've seen kuzma like in shoes. I don't remember I think maybe there was maybe maybe the deal wasn't Early on court shoes, but it was shoes that he was going to wear to and from the game, you know, because that's like a whole thing now is like people got to be seen walking in with three pairs of shoes in order to be cool. But I I think this the whole deal was incredible like it was exciting to see that like, it's actually something that I won't say who but I talked to people at one of the major reason two of the major retailers about setting something like that up and doing something like that where they could have their own. Our own kind of sponsored athlete because what it does is like it creates excitement around a variety of products, but it also highlights the product that he's going to wear on course, so it's good for you know, Nike basketball because he has a deal with Nike basketball like he's been playing in the adapter recently and if he shows up to, you know, the game pregame for instance in the easy one or we're carrying the easy one or something like that. Somebody's going to snap a picture it hits social media and I mean it just Like so much potential to do so many cool things with that but I really haven't seen anything in regards to it at all. Yeah, that's so it's so weird. So like I just did a little quick Google search and literally if you type Kyle kuzma and goat all the stories are from October. Yeah like October October 17th, October 18 2018, and there's no news about it after that which is which just seems strange. To me, I would think that there would be more more stuff out there about it or even like on the sneaker blogs or are really anywhere. I don't I don't see anything about it. I don't know what happened with that deal if it just hasn't happened the way that it that people expected it to or I don't know if maybe he hasn't been wearing the right Silhouettes and maybe that's what it is. Maybe he needs a better curated selection to play in order to wear to the game or maybe it's because the Lakers aren't doing well, or maybe it's because LeBron's on the lake. Ears and the bronze taken all the shine. I just I don't know. That's that's just a pretty odd situation to me to see like such for it to be such a big deal and then nothing to come of it. Yeah, I think it's I think that's one of these little checkpoints if you will write like relatively new guy kind of a rising star is he has big of a star as we think like, let's throw something out there and see what happens and let's wait and then let's let's see what Ends in playoffs, right? Let's see what happens with this team. Like I think they're just testing the waters with this a little bit. You know, I think it takes the right personality it right the right skill with the right personality to have a winning combination and you bet on those sometimes and sometimes you lose and sometimes you win and it's inexpensive bet to lose. So to me it seems like that's what they're kind of they're just testing the waters to kind of see what the general interest in him is but who knows I mean Maybe there's an injury. We don't know about me. There's a complication, you know, anything could Anything could happen, but he seems like a pretty interesting person to kind of build a story about so I kind of hope they build more. I hope it moves forward because I'd be interested in music and hearing more about him. Yeah, and I'm like I'm I love goat like I think there's just there's a great opportunity here for him. You know, I just don't know where it's going to where it's going to come from. I just really would love to see goat expose this story a little more because it does seem like there's an opportunity there for them to really separate themselves from the stuff that everyone else is doing like what the stock X is doing what stadium Goods is doing they have this opportunity. It him to really highlight him and you know almost kind of help Jetta mais the platform of set of the secondary Market. I think the secondary Market is still in that that the being legitimised phase I think it's cool if people know about it and I venture capitalist or start to invest and stuff like that, but I think having this NBA player attached to it takes it makes it a little bit more legitimate than it would if there was no one attached to it. So I would love to see them do a little more with him. Him. Yeah, and look at what Footlocker just did right? They just invested in go massively. So like something's coming like something interesting is happening here. Yeah, and that Footlocker thing is blows my mind. Yeah, that is that is like they they invested a hundred million dollars in Goat now just just to kind of put that into perspective goat has been around for I believe five or six years and in that Five or six years. They've had a total investment from Venture capitalists of 97 million dollars in total Footlocker came along and invested more than they have had in total over those five years in one single investment. So that's a big that's a big move on Footlocker's part and I think we could we can really dig into this one a bit because I see it as a couple of things for Footlocker one. I think they see how big the secondary Market is and I think any brand retailer is going to see that amount of money passing hands and not have their hand in it. I think this is Footlocker dipping their hands into the secondary market to I think it also makes its Footlocker's attempt to be cool in the digital space Footlocker has kind of lost some of their cool cachet. I think when we were kids Foot Locker, it was amazing to go to a Footlocker and Like a big deal to kind of go to Footlocker and that appeal and that sort of nostalgia. I think that we have is lost on this generation and I think that generation they have placed that sort of nostalgia on stock X on Goat on Stadium goods and this is Footlocker kind of buying that cool or that Nostalgia back. And then on the third thing I see here is this is a great opportunity for goat Foot Locker has these store within a store like setup for Adidas and Puma. And Reebok and then they have like 702 for women and I think this is a great opportunity for goat to expand their retail presence and you know kind of like with a cop kuzma thing really legitimize the business in a way that you know, you can see a goat section inside of a Footlocker or inside of a House of Hoops. You know, this is the quote unquote greatest of all time selection and it's a selection of sneakers that are super hard to get in super hard to get. Hands-On in the right there available to you inside of the Foot Locker store. You don't have to go online. You can walk into a store. You can put it in your hands. You can look at it. You can touch it you can feel it. So I think there's a huge huge opportunity for the secondary market and with especially with the tying into retail where the retail partner like Footlocker. But again, this is again just me making stuff up. I don't know how you guys feel about it. But you know, that's just kind of where my mind went when I heard about the deal. I mean for me like the fact that a major retailer like Footwear just bought, you know, go who was you know, kind of the secondary market like to me that's counterintuitive, right? Like like you just took goat and turned it into the primary market. So I don't know. I'm a little confused by the whole thing. Like I get that Footlocker is trying to be trendy like they just invested in Jason maidens company the with Kids shoes. They're making some really big moves, which I really like. I think it's about time one of the retailers and Footwear did that but at the same time like owning part of goat, like I don't know if I trust you anymore to be honest as a secondary market like I don't know if I trust it really cuz it's back by, you know, a primary retailer. So a primary retailer that makes deals with these Brands to Market their Duct and things like that, like what does that do to the secondary Market? Does that influence it I don't want it to but it brings up a lot of questions for me. Yeah, I mean I can go ahead. No, I was gonna say I heard that a lot on Twitter about when I was talking about it on Twitter the other day that there is like they're not sure what like now why like Footlocker's not going to sell us anything. They're just going to send it directly to the the secondary Market first my response to that would be like, oh for sure. They would lose their account. Like they're not going to be you know, they they know they can't do that and then my thought was this is an opportunity for Footlocker. Lie to get paid twice instead of just once well as the platform imagine a platform where you know Foot Locker sells you the shoes at retail. They don't even have to ship them to you. You can list them directly on Goat by clicking a button on the FootLocker website and they sell on goat and they're shipped out. The buyer knows their official because they came from Foot Locker so there is no legit checks because it came from Foot Locker. It's from Foot Locker who is a trusted retail or so, you don't have to worry about That perspective you don't have to worry about them being shipped to you are being shipped out because Foot Locker or AKA go is going to handle all of that for you Foot Locker gets the retail money and they also get their cut of the resale money and like that's just sensible then all that's what I thought about. Yeah, possibly. Yeah. That's a great scenario. Yeah. I mean that's that's what I that's what I think but I think Twitter things no Footlocker is just going to sell it just going to give it to go and have go do the resale. As opposed to getting the retail money and getting the resale money. I think that's kind of like far-fetched though, right? I mean, I totally understand like, you know, there could be temptation to do that. But Footlocker doesn't control the amount of hype around a product hardly at all. They almost have zero influence in my opinion on whether a shoe sell resells for more than retail or not. And I think that you know, you could look at the Travis Scott's you could look at the off-white the Yeezys. None of those shoes Footlocker. They would have bought as many as they possibly got of any of those shoes and you know to me there there's no way for them to control the market like the brand still kind of put they but they can they can control the supply and demand their your face to the retailer. They can technically do that. Not to the extreme not to the extent that the actual secondary Market would would respond to it because like a lot of that stuff, you know gets gets to the secondary Market through the back doors of Footlocker Finish Line and other retailers. I know it's not supposed to be a thing but it happens all the time and you know, the biggest sellers on all the secondary Market platforms are probably people that buy from a local, you know retail store out the back door before it hits. No, and the manager takes a cut and gets a little bit more money out of it. But I think that the I think the thing the thing that I think is most interesting about about this is that it creates potentially places for people to bring in their shoes and sell them on Goat in a Foot Locker where it's safe, you know, it takes away the kind of O Craigslist. I'm going to sell my Jordans and then some somebody runs into you know. Violence or problems trying to sell their shoes to somebody else. This almost makes it like like there's almost like a safe way for people to do business on the secondary platform or you know on the go platform on the resale Market where I just see it kind of all time together eventually and I can understand where like there is in theory way that you know, they could potentially do that or you know potentially like Back product to drive up prices, but it's so it's so unpredictable whether or not a shoe is going to be really really valuable or not. Like if you were to look at stock X. For instance go look at like Jordan 1 mids like say an All-Star Jordan one mid from last year, like low sizes sizes like six to nine or maybe even smaller Those Shoes sell now for three four five hundred dollars. Hours when they came out there were so many of them and like you can still buy big sizes at close to retail or maybe a little bit more but they were so like there's this weird place in the secondary Market that I don't think that any of the platforms can can fully understand it and I think that it's the same thing with Foot Locker in retail, right? Like it's always a challenge for them to buy buy products by the right number of products and actually sell it right because at the end of the day Foot Locker could come and say I Bye, you know two million Travis Scott Air Force Ones and Nikes going to be like no way like we're not making that many so it's going to be interesting. I think that like this is more of a marketing play for Footlocker to be cool. It validates that they're in the cool space if they want to cross these brands from in a public-facing space, but the same thing with them investing in Json Maiden the same thing with them investing in pencil, you know, like I could see, you know, they need to tell they need to come in. A check but Footlocker, you should just go ahead and buy Sneaker Con now because that's the that's the future of of marketing right is in-person events. It's not going to be it's not going to be stores and Lord knows it's not buying from apps because that's a headache for everybody. So a couple things you said that I really liked I do like that the youth can have a safe place to sell. I mean, I know my nephew started selling sneakers at like 10, and I was like, hey be careful, like don't be posting those on Craigslist. Let's let's be really careful because you might not understand the value. You might not understand the demand and so I do like that a lot. But if I were Footlocker and I was doing this and maybe this reveals too much in my personality. You have an opportunity now to basically say hey Adidas. Hey Puma. Hey Nikki, I want this shoe and I want it this volume and they say no. Okay. That's probably going to be a higher value goat get ready. This is what's coming. You know, like they they have a premonition now because they have both sides of the brand they they have both sides of the retail really under their wraps that they have an advantage that no one else has it and if they use that correctly, they should be able to predict what's going to be more valuable and they can control the demand and Supply if they play their cards right? They should be able to do it. Yeah, I think I hear what you're saying. I and my father. On that is that they have access to people that already know that stuff anyway, right? Like I've done work for almost every retailer in the Footwear world at this point, it seems like and and even dating back like for instance like just a few days ago. When when I worked at Finish Line in like 2012/2013, I think maybe 14 something like that. I got a text from one of my bosses at Finish Line that I haven't talked to in years. Ears, you know basically saying like you're right about Finish Lines should have bought a resale market and back then it was it was like the soulcollector forums and it was kicks a Phi there was no goat. There was no stock X, but to me like that's the like the future of all of this is going to it's going to be very gray. There's going to be like this big pot of people a big pot of money a big pot of shoes and everybody's playing in the same space for instance because at the end of the day like if somebody's gonna Bye, let's say somebody has a thousand dollars to spend are they going to buy five pairs of shoes off the wall at Foot Locker? Hmm? Probably not. They're probably going to go buy one pair of off whites and one pair of Yeezys off of goat or stock X because that's the cooler thing right now, you know, and it's still the same thousand dollars that's going to go into the sneaker Market in my opinion. I get that like we've had this kind of separation of the two markets now for a little bit but at the end of the day like just because there's more More people there's more secondary Market platforms out there doesn't necessarily mean that there's more money going. I mean, obviously the business of sneakers is growing. I'm not saying that it's not but it's it doesn't mean that like the 20 year-old the 18 year old kid doesn't spend the same amount of on his shoes. As you know, they would have two years ago three years ago when there was no secondary Market platforms. They might have been buying them or selling them on eBay. But you know, it's just this weird space where we're kind of To the point where all of this has to be looked at in my opinion at a such a high level of like, where is this all going? And you know for me Foot Locker is seeing that retail is dying and is trying to create ways to bring in some of the excitement that still exists with their customers because you know regardless of you know, where you buy your shoes from. I think that the secondary Market if you're into sneakers and have been for the last few years or more If you pay attention to the secondary Market at least in some regard, right like you always have the thought of like, oh, yeah, he's he's well, they might be worth something. I should just get them right and you know kind of goes back to like falling for the hype or whatever but like it's it's becoming more and more common for like let's say let's say that lets say that 20% of the people are quote sneakerheads, right? They spend all their time paying attention to sneakers. They know every You stay can tell you when everything is coming out. They correct you on the colorways when you tell them it's the wrong color way or spell something wrong that 20% is the one that that that for five years ago looked at eBay before they made a purchase that percentage is steadily growing because as people understand that like, oh, well, I only have X amount of space in my closet. Maybe I'm going to buy something that I can resell or at least if if I don't like it or I only wear it a couple times I get most of my money back. Back and to me that's kind of this like shifting where it's still the same big pot. But like there's maybe 30 or 40 percent of the sneaker heads are you know, they're they're getting people hyped up and you see people, you know, obviously more people are buying these now than they were a couple years ago and you know seems like the same thing for like the off white stuff, but I don't know that was kind of a long ramble, but that's kind of my theory on this approach from Foot Locker and I think a lot of it is also There's value in the data. I think I think the brands are starting to and obviously the retailers are paying more attention to data data is becoming more and more important every day and everything that we do with everything from a I you know, predictive buying and all of those things. So I think Footlocker being able to pull the data from goat into their own data just makes them more valuable to a brand obviously Brands captured their own. Data based on sales but a lot of that is just more like manufacturing and sales on how many we sold to a retailer but with Foot Locker being able to say okay. This is how many people bought these at retail and now this is how many people bought these on the secondary market for this price that data. I'm sure someone way smarter than me will be able to extract information out of that data that allows Nike to make better manufacturing and production decisions Footlocker. It allows Footlocker to make better buying decisions which you know obviously will reflect into the secondary Market which I believe I think I think I said that right. No, I isn't that why they don't listen to the podcast but I hundred percent agree with you, but just to Counterpoint just to be that guy I would say that that's already happened. Right? Like if you look at Jordans in 2012, everything sold out retail. Is of a for was what 140 150 160 something like that almost every Jordan release now is 180 200 220. So they Nike and Jordan brand saw there's a lot of money on the market to be made we can raise our prices increase production and we're going to eat up this secondary Market. We're still going to make more money because we're charging 40 or 50 dollars more per pair that normally at that time in 2012 or 13 was going to eat. Or some seller on eBay and that's that's the analytics from from that data. Probably is what caused those changes I would also argue that like that's also what's what's been the reasoning behind a lot of these more like hyper focused or smaller brand collaborations because they know that that they've got to continue to spread through the higher. Our energy places and get like that like top-tier like, you know, I won't want to call it influence or but like the hyped up Brands and the hyped up designers that are that had their own clothing line now are more likely to get a Nike collab than they were five or six years ago because back then it was it was crazy that Nike did any kind of collab with Jordan right? Like I mean, like I don't even know that there were actual collapse of the Jordan brand prior to like 2011 or And then it was like no very very rare. Right? And then now it's like well Travis Scott gets to do whatever he wants with the one, you know, Virgil gets to do whatever he wants with the one like Nigel Sylvester's got a one, you know, Hiroshi with fragments got a one like everybody's doing something and I think I think you know, there is some like I do have a little bit of like kind of concern in terms of like how that data shapes everything but at the end of the day, I feel like The people that you're talking about are so focused on Big Data numbers. Anyway, like we probably have already been you know, if there's anything bad to come from this kind of stuff. We've probably already been paying too much for retro Jordans or something, you know, I don't entirely disagree but I do disagree, but I don't want to seem like I'm arguing so I'm going to say that but I think it's a great conversation. Since 2010 11, you know, there's definitely been inflation. Right and there's been material taxes and import taxes and all these things have changed quite a bit. So I would actually blame a lot of that in the price increase versus the data. Just just knowing from working on the inside. You know, there was a huge time there was a long period there where Jordan produce shoes with kind of crappy quality material. Yeah and just just from reading the reviews, you know. Not from working on them because I didn't work on them at the time but then they had upgrade back to high quality materials. That's a cost increase right? And so to see it all depends on the exact model, you know, we'd have to see specific studies on this kind of stuff but I mean the import taxes and things like that. You can't you can't say there nothing. I mean, they are definitely impacting. I'd love to know from the inside of one of these Brands like, you know, what's their profit on shoes now versus 10 years ago. Because I bet you it's less actually I bet the cost of making shoes has gone up more than the prices that they've raised, you know, hyperadapt, you know, excluding because it's a concept car that was a new new product, you know, right kind of different scenario there with brand new technologies like that, you know an initial Flyknit. I think new technologies always cost more to come out with initially, right, but I think you know based on the the secondary Market. I mean if it was me and my whole world On the secondary Market, you know 10 years ago. I would have Jack prices up big time and tried to take the bottom out of that. Secondary Market. I mean nobody did though so, you know, if people are buying shoes for 500 dollars on the secondary Market, why wouldn't you just double your price right there on the spot from 120 to 240? So to me that's really interesting than the whole Dynamics there where you know, everyone selling your shoes on the secondary market for double triple price. Why aren't You raising your prices? So I think this is really complex issue which you know, if any of the viewers have Insight on this I would love to know more understanding. Yeah, absolutely. And again, I'm making this all up off the top of my head which probably isn't the best thing to do. But you know with obviously with Nick with his experience and Tiffany with her experience. We've all kind of shared our thoughts and I would love love love if any of you guys can leave us some notes at outside pods and maybe It into this on the next episode where you guys tell us what you thought what you think. Why did Footlocker invest a hundred million? Do you think it's worth it for Footlocker? Does this make you look at Foot Locker differently or does this make you look at Goat differently. Does this make you look at the secondary Market differently and if any of you guys are actually in the industry and you know a little bit more about this and you want to share it with us, let us know and we can share some of your feedback anonymously we will we will definitely keep your identity hidden if you want to share some comments with us, so don't worry about us being like yeah, it was Todd. Here's a Nike ID number is 74-62 to one and now you don't have to worry about that at all. So feel free to share with us. If you want to share something in anonymously just let us know and again that's outside pods all over the internet's I bought the place for dating advice to write if you wanted to just hash tag Anonymous well, Yeah, yeah, just yeah hashtag it Anonymous, but I think it's more effective if I can like really let you know specifically I wanted to you know, I want to talk to you. But again if you want to be anonymous, I'm okay with that, by the way, you're now officially referred to on our new YouTube channel as The Love Guru shock. All right, and you know what? I don't want. I'll embrace it, you know if that's what they if that's what they want to call me. I'll embrace it. I'm okay with it. I'm okay with being a Love Guru. I mean, I mean with the type of insight and knowledge that I'm able to share the wisdom that I'm able to pass on Guru Guru. I mean, it feels appropriate I'll just say that it does it does for the program. So I was gonna say it feels not quite enough. No, no, no. It well, I think it's appropriate. I think it's appropriate. Of course, of course, they can take it a step further. But you know, we won't push we won't play we'll go we'll go we'll go with Guru that works. But anyway, the reason I know earlier in this episode I talked about being in the air B&B. It's because I'm in Charlotte for for all-star weekend and something that is kind of caught. My attention is All-Star sneakers. I feel like the energy that we've had in the past around All-Star sneakers. Who has died and I'm not sure if that is one because maybe the culture is just tired of All-Star sneakers, or is it just that Brands don't think it's worth it anymore to invest in that way for All-Star being that it's such a singular event. I don't know but it makes me sad a little bit to be honest. I don't get it. I mean, I've never gotten it I It's like All-Stars at the end of the basketball season practically. Like why are you introducing new shoes? Like? Oh, it's not go to the go to the beginning go to the beginning. So everyone when they start their basketball season and fall where high school and college and everybody starts and fall, right? Like they can get the new shoes. I mean to me, it's just a little bit of a too long of a gap from when actual people play basketball to the NBA. Although it's very fun event and pretty exciting times. Like I'd love to see more crazy shoes like that. Maybe aren't going to be the next big shoe. But yeah, I don't know how to put it because it's in the it's at the end of the season. It's just before playoffs, right? Yeah this I mean technically it's like supposed to be like the middle of the season but it's cool. It is closer to the towards the end. Yeah, and it is super awkward because now we're playing a new shoes like hello. Yeah, it's super awkward to because like you said like the average person like the the kids in high school or Junior High are playing, you know, or like even in college right College ends in March essentially. So you're you're basically like all those people are like done with their season so to speak but I have always thought that the timing of that has been weird, especially like the Cadence of like releases. Is always like I feel like the Brand's try to spread them out, right? Like Nike doesn't want to release a brand new KD and a brand-new Kyrie and the same week because they want to have like independent marketing campaigns for each but but the reality is like that's not how it works. You know, like the real world is like Hey, we're starting to play, you know, like what's out there knew that we want but I do agree like it feels like there's just like a lack of energy around like All-Star releases. I feel like there's just been it's tough to it's tough to compare to like the the craziness of like the first time you saw like the you know, the I guess like the NASA themed stuff back in 2012 or whatever that was with like the Galaxy phones and and that kind of stuff because that was like so crazy over the top and I think to me that was like the peak energy and fun that was being had with like product and you know, That like if you know not to take away from All-Star because if you've never been to All Star like you should definitely try to go and check it out because it's like the events and like the stuff that the people that are there and the Brand's always do cool stuff and fun stuff. I'm just speaking specifically about like the sneakers. I just feel like we've kind of seen a lot of the same stuff repeated and you know, like I would love to see more stuff like Tiffany suggested like just like something crazy, you know, like I don't know like just do something that nobody's expecting. And and have like a new product that you hadn't even talked about or something. So all right to well two things first, since you mrs. Mentioned NASA we're going to have a brief moment of silence for the opportunity Rover the bit on Mars for eight months and it's been radio silent for eight months. And NASA is finally saying goodbye and it pains me a little bit second thing. I just I just like literally thought about this. We're talking about it and like you guys are right like the basketball season for most people is over by the time All-Star rolls around and the other thing is it may be, you know, just the energy around athletes and their sneakers athlete sneakers is dying and it's moving more towards like celebrities and stuff like that. And that's where the energy is and they don't necessarily participate in all-star weekend. So the energy is not going to be the saying when you know culturally people. All aren't checking for the athletes in the same way that they were before. So maybe that has to do with it too. But that's a good both great. That's a good call out, you know, because I remember when I first watch All-Star I was like And this I could be dating myself, but I was like, where's Michael like he's not going to be out there donkey. Where's the brawn dunking like like the slam dunk contest for sure is they the iconic thing of all start right, or maybe I'm just out of the loop totally possible. But like we're on the big players out there like showing us their skills, right? Like it seems like sometimes some I'm sure you don't get all the a performers out there and and it's just kind of like well, where are like? Okay, they don't want to get hurt for playoff school. But this is All-Star weekend. And you're an all star get your butt out here throwing some crazy shoes and let's see what you got like. Yeah, I agree not to me that kind of it's not really an All-Star experience. It's not the best players. It's I mean, it's a lot. I mean the NBA has amazing players, right? I'm not trying to rip on anybody but like show us. What you know LeBron Katie show us what you do in your spare time, when you're bored. I guarantee you were doing some dumb dunks and some like silly stuff. That's probably awesome and like show it to us like bring it out. Like let's have let's be human a little bit. Yeah, I agree. I think I think like that's always been like for the past like probably I don't know maybe like seven eight years that's been an issue right because as you know, As a fan you want to see like the absolute superstars of the sport out there all weekend having a good time in playing but then but then like you've the the league has extended this whole, you know event of three, you know, now for five days even and the superstars are really only their Sunday for the most part right and like you get to see, you know, maybe Steph Curry and Klay Thompson those guys Three-Point Contest or skills competitions, but like you're not seeing LeBron out. There you rarely see in like 80 or anybody like that where it's like your top, you know, let's say top 10 20 people in the league players in the league aren't out there until Sunday. It kind of I don't know. It's kind of lost its you know, appeal in my opinion because of that. Yeah, that's a that's a good point. That's good point it that that energy that used to be around. It isn't necessarily there anymore. It feels like people are kind of stepping away from it and not participating in the way that we that we would like them to and maybe that's just goes to our expectations or maybe just goes to the athletes, you know? Yeah, I mean Jacques have an awesome time there. It'll be amazing. Yeah. Yeah, it should be it should be fun. It'll be it'll be fun. But at the same time, you know, you do want to see those guys play anyway. Well, I think that this is a good show. I love the talk we had today. This is good. This one's good. I think this is our first like real like disagreement when it came to the easy stuff. We don't usually disagree on most things we generally along the same lines. We may have a few variations on things. But this is the first time I think we were we were like no, it's good. I love it. I love it for you guys listening as always. I just want to say thank you guys for listening. We really do appreciate you. Make sure you find us on outside pods. I am Jacques Slade you can find the all over the Internet that Cousteau that's custa or oh that's on the Instagrams on the Twitter's on the YouTubes on the Grinders bumbles tenders and on Pinterest and maybe even on LinkedIn if you look hard enough, but this show would not be What it is with just me it would just be like one madman rambling on a street corner, which is not something that's interesting at all. I have two very very intelligent. Very wise very insightful people on this show and they make they make my job so much easier easier Nick go ahead. Tell them where they can find and they came ball at making vowel on all platforms at Sneakers history at Sneaker history on all platforms. And yeah it is it was this was definitely a fun show. I enjoyed the debates. So Tiffany go ahead and let them know how they can find you to be beers. You can find me at TI F fa + YB ERS and that's on Instagram and YouTube and I just want to say it first, you know, I disagree with Jacques and Nick tonight. This could be my last show. So you guys comment you let us know we'll see how it goes. Wish me luck. Not at all. Not at all. You are. The reason you are the reason both Nick and I are even doing this show if it wasn't for you. No one would listen to you. So again, you guys can reach us at on outside Todd's leave us any questions you have again any relationship advice you need doesn't matter what sort of relationship you're in. I have the information that'll help as always. We appreciate you guys. Thank you. For listening listening and we'll see you in hit. Talk to you guys soon. Peace.
On Episode 4 of Season 2 we reveal when we've fallen for the hype, have our first big disagreement about the Nike YEEZYS, discuss the Foot Locker x GOAT partnership, and the problems with NBA All-Star sneaker releases. 3:40 When did we fall for the hype and regret it? 4:10 Is everyone over the Yeezy trend?? 5:10 “I don’t want to show up and ten people have on the same shoes I have on.” - Jacques 5:45 "I fall for my own hype.” - Nick 7:20 “No, this is really cool enough to put up with the pain [of wearing them].” - Nick 8:20 “As an employee…you don’t end up with a collection of 300 pairs of shoes without thinking something is going to be hyped.” - Tiffany 8:40 "I found myself buying shoes I didn’t like.” - Tiffany 9:20 “We all fall for the hype. The brands rely on it.” - Tiffany 10:00 Nike Air Yeezy 1 versus Nike Air Yeezy 2 10:20 “I COMPLETELY DISAGREE! !” - Tiffany 11:25 Teaching Kanye West About The Sneaker Business 12:40 TALK THAT TALK TIFFANY! 13:00 Jacques is biased 15:00 Nick misses the old Kanye 16:30 Making mistakes happens 17:25 Our prediction was wrong 18:15 What happened to the GOAT x Kyle Kuzma deal? 19:30 Do you take three pairs to the gym? 23:00 “I think having an NBA player makes it more legitimate.” - Jacques 23:45 Foot Locker Invests $100 Million In GOAT 24:30 How big is the secondary market for sneakers? 26:00 Breaking down the SNEAKER MARKET vs. RESELL MARKET 33:25 Can Foot Locker take advantage of resale prices now? 36:00 Is there a difference between retail and resale? It’s all sneakers 42:00 The cost of production increases since 2011 45:00 We want to hear from you! 46:40 Jacques aka “The Love Guru” 47:20 All-Star Sneakers - The Energy Has Died 48:00 When the NBA plays versus when amateurs play 48:35 “I’d love to see more crazy shoes.” - Tiffany  49:30 The cadence of sneaker releases in basketball 51:10 A moment of silence 52:00 Where are the superstars in the dunk contest? 56:48 WILL THIS BE TIFFANY’s LAST SHOW? 