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Is Google App Engine a worthy platform for a Lifestreaming app?

python,django,google-app-engine,web-applications

Pulling feeds or doing calculations won't be a problem. But you'll soon have to pay for your account. App engine includes Django, except you'll need to work with some adaptors for the model part. It will surely save you from maintenance headaches.

2008-09-25T18:46:00.000

I'm building a Lifestreaming app that will involve pulling down lots of feeds for lots of users, and performing data-mining, and machine learning algorithms on the results. GAE's load balanced and scalable hosting sounds like a good fit for a system that could eventually be moving around a LOT of data, but it's lack of cron jobs is a nuisance. Would I be better off using Django on a co-loc and dealing with my own DB scaling?

Is Google App Engine a worthy platform for a Lifestreaming app?

python,django,google-app-engine,web-applications

No. If you need to pull lots of things down, App Engine isn't going to work so well. You can use it as a front end by putting your data in their store after doing your offline preprocessing, but you can't do much in the ~1 second time you have per request without doing some really crazy things. Your app would likely be better off on your own hosting.

2008-09-25T18:46:00.000

I'm building a Lifestreaming app that will involve pulling down lots of feeds for lots of users, and performing data-mining, and machine learning algorithms on the results. GAE's load balanced and scalable hosting sounds like a good fit for a system that could eventually be moving around a LOT of data, but it's lack of cron jobs is a nuisance. Would I be better off using Django on a co-loc and dealing with my own DB scaling?

Is Google App Engine a worthy platform for a Lifestreaming app?

python,django,google-app-engine,web-applications

It might change when they offer paid plans, but as it stands, App Engine is not good for CPU intensive apps. It is designed to scale to handle a large number of requests, not necessarily a large amount of calculation per request. I am running into this issue with fairly minor calculations, and I fear I may have to start looking elsewhere as my data set grows.

2008-09-25T18:46:00.000

I'm building a Lifestreaming app that will involve pulling down lots of feeds for lots of users, and performing data-mining, and machine learning algorithms on the results. GAE's load balanced and scalable hosting sounds like a good fit for a system that could eventually be moving around a LOT of data, but it's lack of cron jobs is a nuisance. Would I be better off using Django on a co-loc and dealing with my own DB scaling?

Python web development - with or without a framework

python,frameworks

Go for a framework. Basic stuffs like session handling are a nightmare if you don't use a one because Python is not web specialized like PHP. If you think django is too much, you can try a lighter one like the very small but still handy web.py.

2008-09-25T20:59:00.000

I am planning on porting a PHP application over to Python. The application is mostly about data collection and processing. The main application runs as a stand alone command line application. There is a web interface to the application which is basically a very light weight reporting interface. I did not use a framework in the PHP version, but being new to Python, I am wondering if it would be advantageous to use something like Django or at the very least Genshi. The caveat is I do not want my application distribution to be overwhelmed by the framework parts I would need to distribute with the application. Is using only the cgi import in Python the best way to go in this circumstance? I would tend to think a framework is too much overhead, but perhaps I'm not thinking in a very "python" way about them. What suggestions do you have in this scenario?

Python web development - with or without a framework

python,frameworks

It depends on the way you are going to distribute your application. If it will only be used internally, go for django. It's a joy to work with it. However, django really falls short at the distribution-task; django-applications are a pain to set up.

2008-09-25T20:59:00.000

I am planning on porting a PHP application over to Python. The application is mostly about data collection and processing. The main application runs as a stand alone command line application. There is a web interface to the application which is basically a very light weight reporting interface. I did not use a framework in the PHP version, but being new to Python, I am wondering if it would be advantageous to use something like Django or at the very least Genshi. The caveat is I do not want my application distribution to be overwhelmed by the framework parts I would need to distribute with the application. Is using only the cgi import in Python the best way to go in this circumstance? I would tend to think a framework is too much overhead, but perhaps I'm not thinking in a very "python" way about them. What suggestions do you have in this scenario?

Python web development - with or without a framework

python,frameworks

Django makes it possible to whip out a website rapidly, that's for sure. You don't need to be a Python master to use it, and since it's very pythonic in it's design, and there is not really any "magic" going on, it will help you learn Python along the way. Start with the examples, check out some django screencasts from TwiD and you'll be on your way. Start slow, tweaking the admin, and playing with it via shell is the way to start. Once you have a handle on the ORM and get how things work, start building the real stuff! The framework isn't going to cause any performance problems, like S. Lott said, it's code you don't have to maintain, and that's the best kind.

2008-09-25T20:59:00.000

I am planning on porting a PHP application over to Python. The application is mostly about data collection and processing. The main application runs as a stand alone command line application. There is a web interface to the application which is basically a very light weight reporting interface. I did not use a framework in the PHP version, but being new to Python, I am wondering if it would be advantageous to use something like Django or at the very least Genshi. The caveat is I do not want my application distribution to be overwhelmed by the framework parts I would need to distribute with the application. Is using only the cgi import in Python the best way to go in this circumstance? I would tend to think a framework is too much overhead, but perhaps I'm not thinking in a very "python" way about them. What suggestions do you have in this scenario?

Python web development - with or without a framework

python,frameworks

Depends on the size of the project. If you had only a few previous php-scripts which called your stand alone application then I'd probably go for a cgi-app. If you have use for databases, url rewriting, templating, user management and such, then using a framework is a good idea. And of course, before you port it, consider if it's worth it just to switch the language or if there are specific Python features you need. Good luck!

2008-09-25T20:59:00.000

I am planning on porting a PHP application over to Python. The application is mostly about data collection and processing. The main application runs as a stand alone command line application. There is a web interface to the application which is basically a very light weight reporting interface. I did not use a framework in the PHP version, but being new to Python, I am wondering if it would be advantageous to use something like Django or at the very least Genshi. The caveat is I do not want my application distribution to be overwhelmed by the framework parts I would need to distribute with the application. Is using only the cgi import in Python the best way to go in this circumstance? I would tend to think a framework is too much overhead, but perhaps I'm not thinking in a very "python" way about them. What suggestions do you have in this scenario?

Looking for File Traversal Functions in Python that are Like Java's

java,python,file-traversal

Use os.path.walk if you want subdirectories as well. walk(top, func, arg) Directory tree walk with callback function. For each directory in the directory tree rooted at top (including top itself, but excluding '.' and '..'), call func(arg, dirname, fnames). dirname is the name of the directory, and fnames a list of the names of the files and subdirectories in dirname (excluding '.' and '..'). func may modify the fnames list in-place (e.g. via del or slice assignment), and walk will only recurse into the subdirectories whose names remain in fnames; this can be used to implement a filter, or to impose a specific order of visiting. No semantics are defined for, or required of, arg, beyond that arg is always passed to func. It can be used, e.g., to pass a filename pattern, or a mutable object designed to accumulate statistics. Passing None for arg is common.

2008-09-26T17:20:00.000

In Java you can do File.listFiles() and receive all of the files in a directory. You can then easily recurse through directory trees. Is there an analogous way to do this in Python?

Looking for File Traversal Functions in Python that are Like Java's

java,python,file-traversal

I'd recommend against os.path.walk as it is being removed in Python 3.0. os.walk is simpler, anyway, or at least I find it simpler.

2008-09-26T17:20:00.000

In Java you can do File.listFiles() and receive all of the files in a directory. You can then easily recurse through directory trees. Is there an analogous way to do this in Python?

OCSP libraries for python / java / c?

java,python,c,ocsp

Have you check pyOpenSSL.. am sure openssl supports ocsp and python binding may support it

2008-09-27T12:12:00.000

Going back to my previous question on OCSP, does anybody know of "reliable" OCSP libraries for Python, Java and C? I need "client" OCSP functionality, as I'll be checking the status of Certs against an OCSP responder, so responder functionality is not that important. Thanks

Debug Pylons application through Eclipse

python,eclipse,pylons,pydev,pyramid

Create a new launch configuration (Python Run) Main tab Use paster-script.py as main module (you can find it in the Scripts sub-directory in your python installation directory) Don't forget to add the root folder of your application in the PYTHONPATH zone Arguments Set the base directory to the root folder also. As Program Arguments use "serve development.ini" (or whatever you use to debug your app") Common Tab Check allocate console and launch in background

2008-09-29T05:41:00.000

I have Eclipse setup with PyDev and love being able to debug my scripts/apps. I've just started playing around with Pylons and was wondering if there is a way to start up the paster server through Eclipse so I can debug my webapp?

Debug Pylons application through Eclipse

python,eclipse,pylons,pydev,pyramid

I was able to get --reload working by changing the 'Working directory' in the arguments tab to not use default (i.e. select 'Other'->File System->'Root of your Pylons' app where development.ini is stored.

2008-09-29T05:41:00.000

I have Eclipse setup with PyDev and love being able to debug my scripts/apps. I've just started playing around with Pylons and was wondering if there is a way to start up the paster server through Eclipse so I can debug my webapp?

Debug Pylons application through Eclipse

python,eclipse,pylons,pydev,pyramid

On linux that will probably be /usr/bin/paster or /usr/local/bin/paster for paste script, and for arguments i have: serve ${workspace_loc}${project_path}/development.ini

2008-09-29T05:41:00.000

I have Eclipse setup with PyDev and love being able to debug my scripts/apps. I've just started playing around with Pylons and was wondering if there is a way to start up the paster server through Eclipse so I can debug my webapp?

Debug Pylons application through Eclipse

python,eclipse,pylons,pydev,pyramid

yanjost has it right, just wanted to add that you need to make sure you do not use the --reload option, this will prevent the debugger from properly attaching itself and cause your breakpoints not to work. Just a little thing I ran in to.

2008-09-29T05:41:00.000

I have Eclipse setup with PyDev and love being able to debug my scripts/apps. I've just started playing around with Pylons and was wondering if there is a way to start up the paster server through Eclipse so I can debug my webapp?

Automated Python to Java translation

java,python,jython,code-translation

Actually, this may or may not be much help but you could write a script which created a Java class for each Python class, including method stubs, placing the Python implementation of the method inside the Javadoc In fact, this is probably pretty easy to knock up in Python. I worked for a company which undertook a port to Java of a huge Smalltalk (similar-ish to Python) system and this is exactly what they did. Filling in the methods was manual but invaluable, because it got you to really think about what was going on. I doubt that a brute-force method would result in nice code. Here's another possibility: can you convert your Python to Jython more easily? Jython is just Python for the JVM. It may be possible to use a Java decompiler (e.g. JAD) to then convert the bytecode back into Java code (or you may just wish to run on a JVM). I'm not sure about this however, perhaps someone else would have a better idea.

2008-09-30T15:13:00.000

Is there a tool out there that can automatically convert Python to Java? Can Jython do this?

Automated Python to Java translation

java,python,jython,code-translation

It may not be an easy problem. Determining how to map classes defined in Python into types in Java will be a big challange because of differences in each of type binding time. (duck typing vs. compile time binding).

2008-09-30T15:13:00.000

Is there a tool out there that can automatically convert Python to Java? Can Jython do this?

Automated Python to Java translation

java,python,jython,code-translation

to clarify your question: From Python Source code to Java source code? (I don't think so) .. or from Python source code to Java Bytecode? (Jython does this under the hood)

2008-09-30T15:13:00.000

Is there a tool out there that can automatically convert Python to Java? Can Jython do this?

Automated Python to Java translation

java,python,jython,code-translation

Yes Jython does this, but it may or may not be what you want

2008-09-30T15:13:00.000

Is there a tool out there that can automatically convert Python to Java? Can Jython do this?

Template Lib (Engine) in Python running with Jython

python,jython,template-engine

Jinja is pretty cool and seems to work on Jython.

2008-10-01T12:20:00.000

Im searching a Template Lib or Template Engine for generating HTML (XML) that runs under Jython (Jython 2.5 Alpha is ok).

Are there any other good alternatives to zc.buildout and/or virtualenv for installing non-python dependencies?

python,deployment,build-process

I always create a develop.py file at the top level of the project, and have also a packages directory with all of the .tar.gz files from PyPI that I want to install, and also included an unpacked copy of virtualenv that is ready to run right from that file. All of this goes into version control. Every developer can simply check out the trunk, run develop.py, and a few moments later will have a virtual environment ready to use that includes all of our dependencies at exactly the versions the other developers are using. And it works even if PyPI is down, which is very helpful at this point in that service's history.

2008-10-02T03:55:00.000

I am a member of a team that is about to launch a beta of a python (Django specifically) based web site and accompanying suite of backend tools. The team itself has doubled in size from 2 to 4 over the past few weeks and we expect continued growth for the next couple of months at least. One issue that has started to plague us is getting everyone up to speed in terms of getting their development environment configured and having all the right eggs installed, etc. I'm looking for ways to simplify this process and make it less error prone. Both zc.buildout and virtualenv look like they would be good tools for addressing this problem but both seem to concentrate primarily on the python-specific issues. We have a couple of small subprojects in other languages (Java and Ruby specifically) as well as numerous python extensions that have to be compiled natively (lxml, MySQL drivers, etc). In fact, one of the biggest thorns in our side has been getting some of these extensions compiled against appropriate versions of the shared libraries so as to avoid segfaults, malloc errors and all sorts of similar issues. It doesn't help that out of 4 people we have 4 different development environments -- 1 leopard on ppc, 1 leopard on intel, 1 ubuntu and 1 windows. Ultimately what would be ideal would be something that works roughly like this, from the dos/unix prompt: $ git clone [repository url] ... $ python setup-env.py ... that then does what zc.buildout/virtualenv does (copy/symlink the python interpreter, provide a clean space to install eggs) then installs all required eggs, including installing any native shared library dependencies, installs the ruby project, the java project, etc. Obviously this would be useful for both getting development environments up as well as deploying on staging/production servers. Ideally I would like for the tool that accomplishes this to be written in/extensible via python, since that is (and always will be) the lingua franca of our team, but I am open to solutions in other languages. So, my question then is: does anyone have any suggestions for better alternatives or any experiences they can share using one of these solutions to handle larger/broader install bases?

Are there any other good alternatives to zc.buildout and/or virtualenv for installing non-python dependencies?

python,deployment,build-process

Setuptools may be capable of more of what you're looking for than you realize -- if you need a custom version of lxml to work correctly on MacOS X, for instance, you can put a URL to an appropriate egg inside your setup.py and have setuptools download and install that inside your developers' environments as necessary; it also can be told to download and install a specific version of a dependency from revision control. That said, I'd lean towards using a scriptably generated virtual environment. It's pretty straightforward to build a kickstart file which installs whichever packages you depend on and then boot virtual machines (or production hardware!) against it, with puppet or similar software doing other administration (adding users, setting up services [where's your database come from?], etc). This comes in particularly handy when your production environment includes multiple machines -- just script the generation of multiple VMs within their handy little sandboxed subnet (I use libvirt+kvm for this; while kvm isn't available on all the platforms you have developers working on, qemu certainly is, or you can do as I do and have a small number of beefy VM hosts shared by multiple developers). This gets you out of the headaches of supporting N platforms -- you only have a single virtual platform to support -- and means that your deployment process, as defined by the kickstart file and puppet code used for setup, is source-controlled and run through your QA and review processes just like everything else.

2008-10-02T03:55:00.000

I am a member of a team that is about to launch a beta of a python (Django specifically) based web site and accompanying suite of backend tools. The team itself has doubled in size from 2 to 4 over the past few weeks and we expect continued growth for the next couple of months at least. One issue that has started to plague us is getting everyone up to speed in terms of getting their development environment configured and having all the right eggs installed, etc. I'm looking for ways to simplify this process and make it less error prone. Both zc.buildout and virtualenv look like they would be good tools for addressing this problem but both seem to concentrate primarily on the python-specific issues. We have a couple of small subprojects in other languages (Java and Ruby specifically) as well as numerous python extensions that have to be compiled natively (lxml, MySQL drivers, etc). In fact, one of the biggest thorns in our side has been getting some of these extensions compiled against appropriate versions of the shared libraries so as to avoid segfaults, malloc errors and all sorts of similar issues. It doesn't help that out of 4 people we have 4 different development environments -- 1 leopard on ppc, 1 leopard on intel, 1 ubuntu and 1 windows. Ultimately what would be ideal would be something that works roughly like this, from the dos/unix prompt: $ git clone [repository url] ... $ python setup-env.py ... that then does what zc.buildout/virtualenv does (copy/symlink the python interpreter, provide a clean space to install eggs) then installs all required eggs, including installing any native shared library dependencies, installs the ruby project, the java project, etc. Obviously this would be useful for both getting development environments up as well as deploying on staging/production servers. Ideally I would like for the tool that accomplishes this to be written in/extensible via python, since that is (and always will be) the lingua franca of our team, but I am open to solutions in other languages. So, my question then is: does anyone have any suggestions for better alternatives or any experiences they can share using one of these solutions to handle larger/broader install bases?

Are there any other good alternatives to zc.buildout and/or virtualenv for installing non-python dependencies?

python,deployment,build-process

You might consider creating virtual machine appliances with whatever production OS you are running, and all of the software dependencies pre-built. Code can be edited either remotely, or with a shared folder. It worked pretty well for me in a past life that had a fairly complicated development environment.

2008-10-02T03:55:00.000

I am a member of a team that is about to launch a beta of a python (Django specifically) based web site and accompanying suite of backend tools. The team itself has doubled in size from 2 to 4 over the past few weeks and we expect continued growth for the next couple of months at least. One issue that has started to plague us is getting everyone up to speed in terms of getting their development environment configured and having all the right eggs installed, etc. I'm looking for ways to simplify this process and make it less error prone. Both zc.buildout and virtualenv look like they would be good tools for addressing this problem but both seem to concentrate primarily on the python-specific issues. We have a couple of small subprojects in other languages (Java and Ruby specifically) as well as numerous python extensions that have to be compiled natively (lxml, MySQL drivers, etc). In fact, one of the biggest thorns in our side has been getting some of these extensions compiled against appropriate versions of the shared libraries so as to avoid segfaults, malloc errors and all sorts of similar issues. It doesn't help that out of 4 people we have 4 different development environments -- 1 leopard on ppc, 1 leopard on intel, 1 ubuntu and 1 windows. Ultimately what would be ideal would be something that works roughly like this, from the dos/unix prompt: $ git clone [repository url] ... $ python setup-env.py ... that then does what zc.buildout/virtualenv does (copy/symlink the python interpreter, provide a clean space to install eggs) then installs all required eggs, including installing any native shared library dependencies, installs the ruby project, the java project, etc. Obviously this would be useful for both getting development environments up as well as deploying on staging/production servers. Ideally I would like for the tool that accomplishes this to be written in/extensible via python, since that is (and always will be) the lingua franca of our team, but I am open to solutions in other languages. So, my question then is: does anyone have any suggestions for better alternatives or any experiences they can share using one of these solutions to handle larger/broader install bases?

Are there any other good alternatives to zc.buildout and/or virtualenv for installing non-python dependencies?

python,deployment,build-process

Basically, you're looking for a cross-platform software/package installer (on the lines of apt-get/yum/etc.) I'm not sure something like that exists? An alternative might be specifying the list of packages that need to be installed via the OS-specific package management system such as Fink or DarwinPorts for Mac OS X and having a script that sets up the build environment for the in-house code?

2008-10-02T03:55:00.000

I am a member of a team that is about to launch a beta of a python (Django specifically) based web site and accompanying suite of backend tools. The team itself has doubled in size from 2 to 4 over the past few weeks and we expect continued growth for the next couple of months at least. One issue that has started to plague us is getting everyone up to speed in terms of getting their development environment configured and having all the right eggs installed, etc. I'm looking for ways to simplify this process and make it less error prone. Both zc.buildout and virtualenv look like they would be good tools for addressing this problem but both seem to concentrate primarily on the python-specific issues. We have a couple of small subprojects in other languages (Java and Ruby specifically) as well as numerous python extensions that have to be compiled natively (lxml, MySQL drivers, etc). In fact, one of the biggest thorns in our side has been getting some of these extensions compiled against appropriate versions of the shared libraries so as to avoid segfaults, malloc errors and all sorts of similar issues. It doesn't help that out of 4 people we have 4 different development environments -- 1 leopard on ppc, 1 leopard on intel, 1 ubuntu and 1 windows. Ultimately what would be ideal would be something that works roughly like this, from the dos/unix prompt: $ git clone [repository url] ... $ python setup-env.py ... that then does what zc.buildout/virtualenv does (copy/symlink the python interpreter, provide a clean space to install eggs) then installs all required eggs, including installing any native shared library dependencies, installs the ruby project, the java project, etc. Obviously this would be useful for both getting development environments up as well as deploying on staging/production servers. Ideally I would like for the tool that accomplishes this to be written in/extensible via python, since that is (and always will be) the lingua franca of our team, but I am open to solutions in other languages. So, my question then is: does anyone have any suggestions for better alternatives or any experiences they can share using one of these solutions to handle larger/broader install bases?

How would I package and sell a Django app?

python,django,piracy-prevention

Don't try and obfuscate or encrypt the code - it will never work. I would suggest selling the Django application "as a service" - either host it for them, or sell them the code and support. Write up a contract that forbids them from redistributing it. That said, if you were determined to obfuscate the code in some way - you can distribute python applications entirely as .pyc (Python compiled byte-code).. It's how Py2App works. It will still be re-distributable, but it will be very difficult to edit the files - so you could add some basic licensing stuff, and not have it foiled by a few #s.. As I said, I don't think you'll succeed in anti-piracy via encryption or obfuscation etc.. Depending on your clients, a simple contract, and maybe some really basic checks will go a long much further than some complicated decryption system (And make the experience of using your application better, instead of hopefully not any worse)

2008-10-02T22:27:00.000

Currently I am hosting a Django app I developed myself for my clients, but I am now starting to look at selling it to people for them to host themselves. My question is this: How can I package up and sell a Django app, while protecting its code from pirating or theft? Distributing a bunch of .py files doesn't sound like a good idea as the people I sell it to too could just make copies of them and pass them on. I think for the purpose of this problem it would be safe to assume that everyone who buys this would be running the same (LAMP) setup.

How would I package and sell a Django app?

python,django,piracy-prevention

You'll never be able to keep the source code from people who really want it. It's best to come to grips with this fact now, and save yourself the headache later.

2008-10-02T22:27:00.000

Currently I am hosting a Django app I developed myself for my clients, but I am now starting to look at selling it to people for them to host themselves. My question is this: How can I package up and sell a Django app, while protecting its code from pirating or theft? Distributing a bunch of .py files doesn't sound like a good idea as the people I sell it to too could just make copies of them and pass them on. I think for the purpose of this problem it would be safe to assume that everyone who buys this would be running the same (LAMP) setup.

How would I package and sell a Django app?

python,django,piracy-prevention

The way I'd go about it is this: Encrypt all of the code Write an installer that contacts the server with the machine's hostname and license file and gets the decryption key, then decrypts the code and compiles it to python bytecode Add (in the installer) a module that checks the machine's hostname and license file on import and dies if it doesn't match This way the user only has to contact the server when the hostname changes and on first install, but you get a small layer of security. You could change the hostname to something more complex, but there's really no need -- anyone that wants to pirate this will do so, but a simple mechanism like that will keep honest people honest.

2008-10-02T22:27:00.000

Currently I am hosting a Django app I developed myself for my clients, but I am now starting to look at selling it to people for them to host themselves. My question is this: How can I package up and sell a Django app, while protecting its code from pirating or theft? Distributing a bunch of .py files doesn't sound like a good idea as the people I sell it to too could just make copies of them and pass them on. I think for the purpose of this problem it would be safe to assume that everyone who buys this would be running the same (LAMP) setup.

How would I package and sell a Django app?

python,django,piracy-prevention

May I speak frankly, as a friend? Unless your app is Really Amazing, you may not get many buyers. Why waste the time on lawyers, obfuscation, licensing and whatnot? You stand to gain a better reputation by open-sourcing your code...and maintaining it. Django comes from the open-source end of the spectrum from licensing (and obfuscating). Granted, the MIT license is more common than the GPL; still they are both very far removed from anything like Microsoft's EULA. A lot of Djangophiles will balk at closed source code, simply because that's what Microsoft does. Also, people will trust your code more, since they will be able to read it and verify that it contains no malicious code. Remember, "obfuscating" means "hiding;" and who will really know exactly what you've hidden? Granted, there's no easy way to monetize open-sourced code. But you could offer your services or even post a campaign on Pledgie.com, for those who are thankful for all your great work.

2008-10-02T22:27:00.000

Currently I am hosting a Django app I developed myself for my clients, but I am now starting to look at selling it to people for them to host themselves. My question is this: How can I package up and sell a Django app, while protecting its code from pirating or theft? Distributing a bunch of .py files doesn't sound like a good idea as the people I sell it to too could just make copies of them and pass them on. I think for the purpose of this problem it would be safe to assume that everyone who buys this would be running the same (LAMP) setup.

How would I package and sell a Django app?

python,django,piracy-prevention

One thing you might want to consider is what FogBugz does. Simply include a small binary (perhaps a C program) that is compiled for the target platforms and contains the code to validate the license. This way you can keep the honest people honest with minimal headache on your part.

2008-10-02T22:27:00.000

Currently I am hosting a Django app I developed myself for my clients, but I am now starting to look at selling it to people for them to host themselves. My question is this: How can I package up and sell a Django app, while protecting its code from pirating or theft? Distributing a bunch of .py files doesn't sound like a good idea as the people I sell it to too could just make copies of them and pass them on. I think for the purpose of this problem it would be safe to assume that everyone who buys this would be running the same (LAMP) setup.

How would I package and sell a Django app?

python,django,piracy-prevention

"Encrypting" Python source code (or bytecode, or really bytecode for any language that uses it -- not just Python) is like those little JavaScript things some people put on web pages to try to disable the right-hand mouse button, declaring "now you can't steal my images!" The workarounds are trivial, and will not stop a determined person. If you're really serious about selling a piece of Python software, you need to act serious. Pay an attorney to draw up license/contract terms, have people agree to them at the time of purchase, and then just let them have the actual software. This means you'll have to haul people into court if they violate the license/contract terms, but you'd have to do that no matter what (e.g., if somebody breaks your "encryption" and starts distributing your software), and having the actual proper form of legal words already set down on paper, with their signature, will be far better for your business in the long term. If you're really that paranoid about people "stealing" your software, though, just stick with a hosted model and don't give them access to the server. Plenty of successful businesses are based around that model.

2008-10-02T22:27:00.000

Currently I am hosting a Django app I developed myself for my clients, but I am now starting to look at selling it to people for them to host themselves. My question is this: How can I package up and sell a Django app, while protecting its code from pirating or theft? Distributing a bunch of .py files doesn't sound like a good idea as the people I sell it to too could just make copies of them and pass them on. I think for the purpose of this problem it would be safe to assume that everyone who buys this would be running the same (LAMP) setup.

Django, mod_python, apache and wacky sessions

python,django,apache,session,mod-python

If you are using some global variables to hold data of your custom authentication session, you need to change this to use either file, database or memcached. As stated above mod_python launches few processes and there's no shared memory between them. I recommend using memcached for this, also use cookies to store session ID or pass it with as GET parameter so that later you can easily extract session data from the cache.

2008-10-03T11:10:00.000

I am running a Django through mod_python on Apache on a linux box. I have a custom authentication backend, and middleware that requires authentication for all pages, except static content. My problem is that after I log in, I will still randomly get the log in screen now and again. It seems to me that each apache process has it's own python process, which in turn has it's own internals. So as long as I get served by the same process I logged in to, everything is fine and dandy. But if my request gets served by a different apache process, I am no longer authenticated. I have checked the HTTP headers I send with FireBug, and they are the same each time, ie. same cookie. Is this a known issue and are there workarounds/fixes? Edit: I have a page that displays a lot of generated images. Some off these will not display. This is because they are too behind the authenticating middleware, so they will randomly put up a login image. However, refreshing this page enough times, and it will eventually work, meaning all processes recognize my session.

Django, mod_python, apache and wacky sessions

python,django,apache,session,mod-python

You are correct about how Apache handles the processes, and sometimes you'll get served by a different process. You can see this when you make a change to your site; new processes will pick up the change, but old processes will give you the old site. To get consistency, you have to restart Apache. Assuming a restart doesn't fix the problem, I would guess it's something in the "custom authentication backend" storing part of the authentication in memory (which won't work very well for a web server). I would try setting MaxRequestsPerChild to 1 in your Apache config and seeing if you still get the login screen. If you do, something is being stored in memory, maybe a model not being saved? Hope that helps! P.S. Just out of curiosity, why are you using a custom authentication backend and a middleware to ensure the user is logged in? It seems Django's contrib.auth and @login_required would be easier...

2008-10-03T11:10:00.000

I am running a Django through mod_python on Apache on a linux box. I have a custom authentication backend, and middleware that requires authentication for all pages, except static content. My problem is that after I log in, I will still randomly get the log in screen now and again. It seems to me that each apache process has it's own python process, which in turn has it's own internals. So as long as I get served by the same process I logged in to, everything is fine and dandy. But if my request gets served by a different apache process, I am no longer authenticated. I have checked the HTTP headers I send with FireBug, and they are the same each time, ie. same cookie. Is this a known issue and are there workarounds/fixes? Edit: I have a page that displays a lot of generated images. Some off these will not display. This is because they are too behind the authenticating middleware, so they will randomly put up a login image. However, refreshing this page enough times, and it will eventually work, meaning all processes recognize my session.

Django, mod_python, apache and wacky sessions

python,django,apache,session,mod-python

How to ensure that session is not cleared after Apache restart( or stop and start) ? Because when I upgrade my source code and restart Apache, I refresh the web page and there I have to login again. Session is lost. Session is stored in Memcache. No idea how and why its cleared. How to preserve the session so that the user need not login after the apache restart?

2008-10-03T11:10:00.000

I am running a Django through mod_python on Apache on a linux box. I have a custom authentication backend, and middleware that requires authentication for all pages, except static content. My problem is that after I log in, I will still randomly get the log in screen now and again. It seems to me that each apache process has it's own python process, which in turn has it's own internals. So as long as I get served by the same process I logged in to, everything is fine and dandy. But if my request gets served by a different apache process, I am no longer authenticated. I have checked the HTTP headers I send with FireBug, and they are the same each time, ie. same cookie. Is this a known issue and are there workarounds/fixes? Edit: I have a page that displays a lot of generated images. Some off these will not display. This is because they are too behind the authenticating middleware, so they will randomly put up a login image. However, refreshing this page enough times, and it will eventually work, meaning all processes recognize my session.

Django, mod_python, apache and wacky sessions

python,django,apache,session,mod-python

Do you have standard database-driven sessions? Is caching enabled in settings?

2008-10-03T11:10:00.000

I am running a Django through mod_python on Apache on a linux box. I have a custom authentication backend, and middleware that requires authentication for all pages, except static content. My problem is that after I log in, I will still randomly get the log in screen now and again. It seems to me that each apache process has it's own python process, which in turn has it's own internals. So as long as I get served by the same process I logged in to, everything is fine and dandy. But if my request gets served by a different apache process, I am no longer authenticated. I have checked the HTTP headers I send with FireBug, and they are the same each time, ie. same cookie. Is this a known issue and are there workarounds/fixes? Edit: I have a page that displays a lot of generated images. Some off these will not display. This is because they are too behind the authenticating middleware, so they will randomly put up a login image. However, refreshing this page enough times, and it will eventually work, meaning all processes recognize my session.

How do you develop against OpenID locally

python,django,openid

You could probably use the django OpenID library to write a provider to test against. Have one that always authenticates and one that always fails.

2008-10-05T14:08:00.000

I'm developing a website (in Django) that uses OpenID to authenticate users. As I'm currently only running on my local machine I can't authenticate using one of the OpenID providers on the web. So I figure I need to run a local OpenID server that simply lets me type in a username and then passes that back to my main app. Does such an OpenID dev server exist? Is this the best way to go about it?

Does anyone have experience with PyS60 mobile development

python,mobile,pys60

I have some J2ME experience and now I decided to write a couple of useful apps for my phone so I decided to use PyS60 to study Python by the way:) Some things I don't like about the platform are: You can't invoke any graphical functions (module appuifw) from non-main thread. Python script model is not well-suited for ui applications because the script must contain explicit while loop or semaphore to prevent main thread from exit There function sys.exit() is not available. Again, I'm a newbie to PyS60 so if the issues given above do have nice workarounds don't hesitate to write them as comments. I would be very grateful.

2008-10-06T07:37:00.000

I am in the position of having to make a technology choice early in a project which is targetted at mobile phones. I saw that there is a python derivative for S60 and wondered whether anyone could share experiences, good and bad, and suggest appropriate IDE's and emulators. Please don't tell me that I should be developing on Windows Mobile, I have already decided not to do that so will mark those answers down.

Does anyone have experience with PyS60 mobile development

python,mobile,pys60

I've written a calculator, that I'd like to have, and made a simple game. I wrote it right on the phone. I was writing in text editor then switched to Python and ran a script. It is not very comfortable, but it's ok. Moreover, I was writing all this when I hadn't PC nearby. It was a great experience!

2008-10-06T07:37:00.000

I am in the position of having to make a technology choice early in a project which is targetted at mobile phones. I saw that there is a python derivative for S60 and wondered whether anyone could share experiences, good and bad, and suggest appropriate IDE's and emulators. Please don't tell me that I should be developing on Windows Mobile, I have already decided not to do that so will mark those answers down.

Keeping filters in Django Admin

python,django,django-admin

Another way to do this is to embed the filter in the queryset. You can dynamically create a proxy model with a manager that filters the way you want, then call admin.site.register() to create a new model admin. All the links would then be relative to this view.

2008-10-07T07:33:00.000

What I would like to achive is: I go to admin site, apply some filters to the list of objects I click and object edit, edit, edit, hit 'Save' Site takes me to the list of objects... unfiltered. I'd like to have the filter from step 1 remembered and applied. Is there an easy way to do it?

Keeping filters in Django Admin

python,django,django-admin

Click 2 times "Back"?

2008-10-07T07:33:00.000

What I would like to achive is: I go to admin site, apply some filters to the list of objects I click and object edit, edit, edit, hit 'Save' Site takes me to the list of objects... unfiltered. I'd like to have the filter from step 1 remembered and applied. Is there an easy way to do it?

What do I need to import to gain access to my models?

python,django

The cleanest solution is to add django extensions. (virt1)tsmets@calvin:~/Documents/prive/rugby-club/proposal/kitu$ yolk -l Django - 1.3.1 - active Pygments - 1.4 - active Python - 2.6.5 - active development (/usr/lib/python2.6/lib-dynload) django-extensions - 0.7.1 - active pip - 1.0.2 - active setuptools - 0.6c11 - active wsgiref - 0.1.2 - active development (/usr/lib/python2.6) yolk - 0.4.1 - active The list of possible commands is then extended with among other things the runscript command.

2008-10-08T11:23:00.000

I'd like to run a script to populate my database. I'd like to access it through the Django database API. The only problem is that I don't know what I would need to import to gain access to this. How can this be achieved?

What do I need to import to gain access to my models?

python,django

In addition to your own models files, you need to import your settings module as well.

2008-10-08T11:23:00.000

I'd like to run a script to populate my database. I'd like to access it through the Django database API. The only problem is that I don't know what I would need to import to gain access to this. How can this be achieved?

Framework/Language for new web 2.0 sites (2008 and 2009)

python,ruby-on-rails,django,merb

All of them will get the job done. Use the one that you and your team are most familiar with This will have a far greater impact on the delivery times and stability of your app than any of the other variables.

2008-10-08T18:07:00.000

I know I'll get a thousand "Depends on what you're trying to do" answers, but seriously, there really is no solid information about this online yet. Here are my assumptions - I think they're similar for alot of people right now: It is now October 2008. I want to start writing an application for January 2009. I am willing to use beta code and such but by January, I'd like a site that doesn't have 'strange' problems. With that said, if a language is simply 10% slower than another, I don't care about those things as long as the issue is linear. My main concern is developer productivity. I'll be using Linux, Apache, MySQL for the application. I want the power to do things like run scp and ftp client functions with stable libraries (I only picked those two because they're not web-related but at the same time represent pretty common network protocols that any larger app might use). Technologies like OpenID and Oauth will be used as well. Experienced web developers are readily available (i.e. I don't have to find people from financial companies and such). Whatever the choice is is common and will be around for a while. Here's a kicker. I'd like to be able to use advanced presentation layer tools/languages similar to HAML, SASS. I definitively want to use JQuery. I will be creating a Facebook app and at some point doing things like dealing with SMS messages, iPhone apps, etc... At this point, the choices for language are PHP (Cake,Symfony,Zend), Python (Django), Ruby (Merb). I'm really between Django and Merb at this point mostly because everybody else seems to be going that way. Please don't put any technologies in here that aren't made for mainstream. I know Merb is untested mostly, but their stated goal is a solid platform and it has alot of momentum behind it so I'm confident that it's workable. Please don't answer with how great Perl is or .Net. For Future References - these choices were already made: Debian (Lenny) - For converting CPU cycles into something useful. Trac 0.11 - For Project Management Gliffy - For wireframes and such Google Docs/Apps - For documentation, hosted email, etc... Amazon ec2/S3 - For hosting, storage. Cheers, Adam

Framework/Language for new web 2.0 sites (2008 and 2009)

python,ruby-on-rails,django,merb

Sorry, but your question is wrong. People are probably going to vote me down for this one but I want to say it anyway: I wouldn't expect to get an objective answer! Why? That's simple: All Ruby advocates will tell to use Ruby. All Python advocates will tell to use Python. All PHP advocates will tell to use PHP. Insert additional languages here. Got the idea? I recommend you to try each of the languages you mentioned for yourself. At least a few days each. Afterwards you should have a much better foundation to make your final decision. That said, I would choose Ruby (because I am a Ruby advocate).

2008-10-08T18:07:00.000

I know I'll get a thousand "Depends on what you're trying to do" answers, but seriously, there really is no solid information about this online yet. Here are my assumptions - I think they're similar for alot of people right now: It is now October 2008. I want to start writing an application for January 2009. I am willing to use beta code and such but by January, I'd like a site that doesn't have 'strange' problems. With that said, if a language is simply 10% slower than another, I don't care about those things as long as the issue is linear. My main concern is developer productivity. I'll be using Linux, Apache, MySQL for the application. I want the power to do things like run scp and ftp client functions with stable libraries (I only picked those two because they're not web-related but at the same time represent pretty common network protocols that any larger app might use). Technologies like OpenID and Oauth will be used as well. Experienced web developers are readily available (i.e. I don't have to find people from financial companies and such). Whatever the choice is is common and will be around for a while. Here's a kicker. I'd like to be able to use advanced presentation layer tools/languages similar to HAML, SASS. I definitively want to use JQuery. I will be creating a Facebook app and at some point doing things like dealing with SMS messages, iPhone apps, etc... At this point, the choices for language are PHP (Cake,Symfony,Zend), Python (Django), Ruby (Merb). I'm really between Django and Merb at this point mostly because everybody else seems to be going that way. Please don't put any technologies in here that aren't made for mainstream. I know Merb is untested mostly, but their stated goal is a solid platform and it has alot of momentum behind it so I'm confident that it's workable. Please don't answer with how great Perl is or .Net. For Future References - these choices were already made: Debian (Lenny) - For converting CPU cycles into something useful. Trac 0.11 - For Project Management Gliffy - For wireframes and such Google Docs/Apps - For documentation, hosted email, etc... Amazon ec2/S3 - For hosting, storage. Cheers, Adam

Framework/Language for new web 2.0 sites (2008 and 2009)

python,ruby-on-rails,django,merb

Don't get stuck in the mindset of server-side page layout. Consider technologies like SproutCore, GWT or ExtJS which put the layouting code fully on the client, making the server responsible only for data marshalling and processing (and easily replaced). And you really, really need to know which server platform you want. Don't pick one because it's the flavor of the month, pick one because you're comfortable with it. Flavors don't last, a solidly built codebase will.

2008-10-08T18:07:00.000

I know I'll get a thousand "Depends on what you're trying to do" answers, but seriously, there really is no solid information about this online yet. Here are my assumptions - I think they're similar for alot of people right now: It is now October 2008. I want to start writing an application for January 2009. I am willing to use beta code and such but by January, I'd like a site that doesn't have 'strange' problems. With that said, if a language is simply 10% slower than another, I don't care about those things as long as the issue is linear. My main concern is developer productivity. I'll be using Linux, Apache, MySQL for the application. I want the power to do things like run scp and ftp client functions with stable libraries (I only picked those two because they're not web-related but at the same time represent pretty common network protocols that any larger app might use). Technologies like OpenID and Oauth will be used as well. Experienced web developers are readily available (i.e. I don't have to find people from financial companies and such). Whatever the choice is is common and will be around for a while. Here's a kicker. I'd like to be able to use advanced presentation layer tools/languages similar to HAML, SASS. I definitively want to use JQuery. I will be creating a Facebook app and at some point doing things like dealing with SMS messages, iPhone apps, etc... At this point, the choices for language are PHP (Cake,Symfony,Zend), Python (Django), Ruby (Merb). I'm really between Django and Merb at this point mostly because everybody else seems to be going that way. Please don't put any technologies in here that aren't made for mainstream. I know Merb is untested mostly, but their stated goal is a solid platform and it has alot of momentum behind it so I'm confident that it's workable. Please don't answer with how great Perl is or .Net. For Future References - these choices were already made: Debian (Lenny) - For converting CPU cycles into something useful. Trac 0.11 - For Project Management Gliffy - For wireframes and such Google Docs/Apps - For documentation, hosted email, etc... Amazon ec2/S3 - For hosting, storage. Cheers, Adam

Framework/Language for new web 2.0 sites (2008 and 2009)

python,ruby-on-rails,django,merb

it depends. php - symfony is a great framework. downsides: php, wordy and directory heavy. propel gets annoying to use. upsides: php is everywhere and labor is cheap. well done framework, and good support. lots of plugins to make your life easier python - django is also a great framework. downsides: python programmers can be harder to find, django even harder. changing your db schema can be somewhat difficult since there are no official migrations. doesn't quite do mvc like you'd expect. upsides: does everything you need and has the great python std library and community behind it. ruby - i've never used merb, so I'll address rails. upsides: there is a plugin, gem, or recipe for almost anything you could want to do. easy to use. downsides: those plugins, gems, and recipes sometimes fail to work in mysterious ways. monkey patching is often evil. the community is.. vocal. opinionated software, and sometimes those opinions are wrong (lack of foreign keys). rails itself seems like a tower of cards waiting to explode and take hours of your life away. with all of that said, I'm a freelance php/symfony and ruby/rails developer. I've worked on several projects in both languages and frameworks. My latest project is in Rails solely because of ActiveMerchant. I've been looking for a reason to develop a django app for a while. If there were an ActiveMerchant like library for django, I probably would have used it.

2008-10-08T18:07:00.000

I know I'll get a thousand "Depends on what you're trying to do" answers, but seriously, there really is no solid information about this online yet. Here are my assumptions - I think they're similar for alot of people right now: It is now October 2008. I want to start writing an application for January 2009. I am willing to use beta code and such but by January, I'd like a site that doesn't have 'strange' problems. With that said, if a language is simply 10% slower than another, I don't care about those things as long as the issue is linear. My main concern is developer productivity. I'll be using Linux, Apache, MySQL for the application. I want the power to do things like run scp and ftp client functions with stable libraries (I only picked those two because they're not web-related but at the same time represent pretty common network protocols that any larger app might use). Technologies like OpenID and Oauth will be used as well. Experienced web developers are readily available (i.e. I don't have to find people from financial companies and such). Whatever the choice is is common and will be around for a while. Here's a kicker. I'd like to be able to use advanced presentation layer tools/languages similar to HAML, SASS. I definitively want to use JQuery. I will be creating a Facebook app and at some point doing things like dealing with SMS messages, iPhone apps, etc... At this point, the choices for language are PHP (Cake,Symfony,Zend), Python (Django), Ruby (Merb). I'm really between Django and Merb at this point mostly because everybody else seems to be going that way. Please don't put any technologies in here that aren't made for mainstream. I know Merb is untested mostly, but their stated goal is a solid platform and it has alot of momentum behind it so I'm confident that it's workable. Please don't answer with how great Perl is or .Net. For Future References - these choices were already made: Debian (Lenny) - For converting CPU cycles into something useful. Trac 0.11 - For Project Management Gliffy - For wireframes and such Google Docs/Apps - For documentation, hosted email, etc... Amazon ec2/S3 - For hosting, storage. Cheers, Adam

Framework/Language for new web 2.0 sites (2008 and 2009)

python,ruby-on-rails,django,merb

My experience with various new technologies over the last ten years leads me to recommend that you make stability of the platform a serious criterion. It's all well and good developing with the latest and greatest framework, but when you find it's moved forward a point version and suddenly the way you have done everything is deprecated, that can turn out to result in extra unnecessary work. This was particularly my experience working with rails a little ahead of version 1. For that reason alone I would avoid any platform that wasn't at least at 1.0 when you start work on it. Ruby is great to work with and will keep your developer productivity high, but if Django is the more stable platform I would favour that for sure.

2008-10-08T18:07:00.000

I know I'll get a thousand "Depends on what you're trying to do" answers, but seriously, there really is no solid information about this online yet. Here are my assumptions - I think they're similar for alot of people right now: It is now October 2008. I want to start writing an application for January 2009. I am willing to use beta code and such but by January, I'd like a site that doesn't have 'strange' problems. With that said, if a language is simply 10% slower than another, I don't care about those things as long as the issue is linear. My main concern is developer productivity. I'll be using Linux, Apache, MySQL for the application. I want the power to do things like run scp and ftp client functions with stable libraries (I only picked those two because they're not web-related but at the same time represent pretty common network protocols that any larger app might use). Technologies like OpenID and Oauth will be used as well. Experienced web developers are readily available (i.e. I don't have to find people from financial companies and such). Whatever the choice is is common and will be around for a while. Here's a kicker. I'd like to be able to use advanced presentation layer tools/languages similar to HAML, SASS. I definitively want to use JQuery. I will be creating a Facebook app and at some point doing things like dealing with SMS messages, iPhone apps, etc... At this point, the choices for language are PHP (Cake,Symfony,Zend), Python (Django), Ruby (Merb). I'm really between Django and Merb at this point mostly because everybody else seems to be going that way. Please don't put any technologies in here that aren't made for mainstream. I know Merb is untested mostly, but their stated goal is a solid platform and it has alot of momentum behind it so I'm confident that it's workable. Please don't answer with how great Perl is or .Net. For Future References - these choices were already made: Debian (Lenny) - For converting CPU cycles into something useful. Trac 0.11 - For Project Management Gliffy - For wireframes and such Google Docs/Apps - For documentation, hosted email, etc... Amazon ec2/S3 - For hosting, storage. Cheers, Adam

Framework/Language for new web 2.0 sites (2008 and 2009)

python,ruby-on-rails,django,merb

I have to preface this with my agreeing with Orion Edwards, choose the one your team is most familiar with. However, I also have to note the curious lack of ASP.NET languages in your list. Not to provoke the great zealot army, but where's the beef? .NET is a stable, rapid development platform and the labor pool is growing daily. VB.NET and C# are transportable skill sets, and that can mean a lot when you're building a team of developers to work on a diverse set of tasks. .NET also allows you to separate your presentation layer from your backend code, like other languages, but also allows you to expose that backend code as web service for things like your iPhone and Facebook applications. Take every suggestion with a grain of salt, and pick what suits the application best. Do your research, and design for function and not the zealots. Disclaimer: Once a PHP, ColdFusion and Perl developer. Flex zealot, and Adobe lover. Now writing enterprise .NET applications. ;) Don't forget Mono, which will let you run .NET under *nix. Not that I'm saying it will be perfect, just playing devil's advocate.

2008-10-08T18:07:00.000

I know I'll get a thousand "Depends on what you're trying to do" answers, but seriously, there really is no solid information about this online yet. Here are my assumptions - I think they're similar for alot of people right now: It is now October 2008. I want to start writing an application for January 2009. I am willing to use beta code and such but by January, I'd like a site that doesn't have 'strange' problems. With that said, if a language is simply 10% slower than another, I don't care about those things as long as the issue is linear. My main concern is developer productivity. I'll be using Linux, Apache, MySQL for the application. I want the power to do things like run scp and ftp client functions with stable libraries (I only picked those two because they're not web-related but at the same time represent pretty common network protocols that any larger app might use). Technologies like OpenID and Oauth will be used as well. Experienced web developers are readily available (i.e. I don't have to find people from financial companies and such). Whatever the choice is is common and will be around for a while. Here's a kicker. I'd like to be able to use advanced presentation layer tools/languages similar to HAML, SASS. I definitively want to use JQuery. I will be creating a Facebook app and at some point doing things like dealing with SMS messages, iPhone apps, etc... At this point, the choices for language are PHP (Cake,Symfony,Zend), Python (Django), Ruby (Merb). I'm really between Django and Merb at this point mostly because everybody else seems to be going that way. Please don't put any technologies in here that aren't made for mainstream. I know Merb is untested mostly, but their stated goal is a solid platform and it has alot of momentum behind it so I'm confident that it's workable. Please don't answer with how great Perl is or .Net. For Future References - these choices were already made: Debian (Lenny) - For converting CPU cycles into something useful. Trac 0.11 - For Project Management Gliffy - For wireframes and such Google Docs/Apps - For documentation, hosted email, etc... Amazon ec2/S3 - For hosting, storage. Cheers, Adam

Framework/Language for new web 2.0 sites (2008 and 2009)

python,ruby-on-rails,django,merb

Having built apps in Django, I can attest to its utility. If only all frameworks were as elegant (yes Spring, I'm looking at you). However in terms of betting the farm on Django, one thing you need to factor in is that Python 3 will be released shortly. Python 3 is not backwards compatible and there's a risk that it will fork the language and end up slowing momentum for all Python projects while they deal with the fallout. To be fair, Ruby 2.0 is due soon too, but I don't think it will be as disruptive.

2008-10-08T18:07:00.000

I know I'll get a thousand "Depends on what you're trying to do" answers, but seriously, there really is no solid information about this online yet. Here are my assumptions - I think they're similar for alot of people right now: It is now October 2008. I want to start writing an application for January 2009. I am willing to use beta code and such but by January, I'd like a site that doesn't have 'strange' problems. With that said, if a language is simply 10% slower than another, I don't care about those things as long as the issue is linear. My main concern is developer productivity. I'll be using Linux, Apache, MySQL for the application. I want the power to do things like run scp and ftp client functions with stable libraries (I only picked those two because they're not web-related but at the same time represent pretty common network protocols that any larger app might use). Technologies like OpenID and Oauth will be used as well. Experienced web developers are readily available (i.e. I don't have to find people from financial companies and such). Whatever the choice is is common and will be around for a while. Here's a kicker. I'd like to be able to use advanced presentation layer tools/languages similar to HAML, SASS. I definitively want to use JQuery. I will be creating a Facebook app and at some point doing things like dealing with SMS messages, iPhone apps, etc... At this point, the choices for language are PHP (Cake,Symfony,Zend), Python (Django), Ruby (Merb). I'm really between Django and Merb at this point mostly because everybody else seems to be going that way. Please don't put any technologies in here that aren't made for mainstream. I know Merb is untested mostly, but their stated goal is a solid platform and it has alot of momentum behind it so I'm confident that it's workable. Please don't answer with how great Perl is or .Net. For Future References - these choices were already made: Debian (Lenny) - For converting CPU cycles into something useful. Trac 0.11 - For Project Management Gliffy - For wireframes and such Google Docs/Apps - For documentation, hosted email, etc... Amazon ec2/S3 - For hosting, storage. Cheers, Adam

Framework/Language for new web 2.0 sites (2008 and 2009)

python,ruby-on-rails,django,merb

I would go with Django, if you are comfortable with a Python solution. It's at version 1.0 now, and is maturing nicely, with a large user base and many contributors. Integrating jQuery is no problem, and I've done it without any issues. The only thing is, as far as I can tell, Ruby is much more popular for web development nowadays, so it's easier to find Ruby developers. I get this impression from browsing recent job advertisements - there aren't that many for Python or Django. I don't know much about Merb, so I can't give a fair comparison. I've done enough PHP to not recommend starting a new project with it.

2008-10-08T18:07:00.000

I know I'll get a thousand "Depends on what you're trying to do" answers, but seriously, there really is no solid information about this online yet. Here are my assumptions - I think they're similar for alot of people right now: It is now October 2008. I want to start writing an application for January 2009. I am willing to use beta code and such but by January, I'd like a site that doesn't have 'strange' problems. With that said, if a language is simply 10% slower than another, I don't care about those things as long as the issue is linear. My main concern is developer productivity. I'll be using Linux, Apache, MySQL for the application. I want the power to do things like run scp and ftp client functions with stable libraries (I only picked those two because they're not web-related but at the same time represent pretty common network protocols that any larger app might use). Technologies like OpenID and Oauth will be used as well. Experienced web developers are readily available (i.e. I don't have to find people from financial companies and such). Whatever the choice is is common and will be around for a while. Here's a kicker. I'd like to be able to use advanced presentation layer tools/languages similar to HAML, SASS. I definitively want to use JQuery. I will be creating a Facebook app and at some point doing things like dealing with SMS messages, iPhone apps, etc... At this point, the choices for language are PHP (Cake,Symfony,Zend), Python (Django), Ruby (Merb). I'm really between Django and Merb at this point mostly because everybody else seems to be going that way. Please don't put any technologies in here that aren't made for mainstream. I know Merb is untested mostly, but their stated goal is a solid platform and it has alot of momentum behind it so I'm confident that it's workable. Please don't answer with how great Perl is or .Net. For Future References - these choices were already made: Debian (Lenny) - For converting CPU cycles into something useful. Trac 0.11 - For Project Management Gliffy - For wireframes and such Google Docs/Apps - For documentation, hosted email, etc... Amazon ec2/S3 - For hosting, storage. Cheers, Adam

Framework/Language for new web 2.0 sites (2008 and 2009)

python,ruby-on-rails,django,merb

Based in your reasons, I would go with Ruby. I see that you want some administration tools (scp, ftp client) and Ruby has it (net/sftp and net/ftp libraries). Also, there are great gems like God for monitoring your system, Vlad the Deployer for deploying, etc. And a lot of alternatives in Merb's field, just use whatever you find it's better for your needs (Thin, Mongrel, ebb, etc).

2008-10-08T18:07:00.000

I know I'll get a thousand "Depends on what you're trying to do" answers, but seriously, there really is no solid information about this online yet. Here are my assumptions - I think they're similar for alot of people right now: It is now October 2008. I want to start writing an application for January 2009. I am willing to use beta code and such but by January, I'd like a site that doesn't have 'strange' problems. With that said, if a language is simply 10% slower than another, I don't care about those things as long as the issue is linear. My main concern is developer productivity. I'll be using Linux, Apache, MySQL for the application. I want the power to do things like run scp and ftp client functions with stable libraries (I only picked those two because they're not web-related but at the same time represent pretty common network protocols that any larger app might use). Technologies like OpenID and Oauth will be used as well. Experienced web developers are readily available (i.e. I don't have to find people from financial companies and such). Whatever the choice is is common and will be around for a while. Here's a kicker. I'd like to be able to use advanced presentation layer tools/languages similar to HAML, SASS. I definitively want to use JQuery. I will be creating a Facebook app and at some point doing things like dealing with SMS messages, iPhone apps, etc... At this point, the choices for language are PHP (Cake,Symfony,Zend), Python (Django), Ruby (Merb). I'm really between Django and Merb at this point mostly because everybody else seems to be going that way. Please don't put any technologies in here that aren't made for mainstream. I know Merb is untested mostly, but their stated goal is a solid platform and it has alot of momentum behind it so I'm confident that it's workable. Please don't answer with how great Perl is or .Net. For Future References - these choices were already made: Debian (Lenny) - For converting CPU cycles into something useful. Trac 0.11 - For Project Management Gliffy - For wireframes and such Google Docs/Apps - For documentation, hosted email, etc... Amazon ec2/S3 - For hosting, storage. Cheers, Adam

MVC model structure in Python

python,model-view-controller,model,structure

There is an inconsistency in your specification. You say Database.py needs to import all Model classes to do ORM but then you say the User class need access to the Database to do queries. Think of these as layers of an API. The Database class provides an API (maybe object-oriented) to some physical persistence layer (such as DB-API 2.0). The Model classes, like User, use the Database layer to load and save their state. There is no reason for the Database.py class to import all the Model classes, and in fact you wouldn't want that because you'd have to modify Database.py each time you created a new Model class - which is a code smell.

2008-10-08T23:46:00.000

I'm having problems structuring classes in the Model part of an MVC pattern in my Python app. No matter how I turn things, I keep running into circular imports. Here's what I have: Model/__init__p.y should hold all Model class names so I can do a "from Model import User" e.g. from a Controller or a unit test case Model/Database.py holds Database class needs to import all Model classes to do ORM initialization should be performed on first module import, i.e. no extra init calls or instantiations (all methods on Database class are @classmethods) Model/User.py contains User model class needs access to Database class to do queries should inherit from base class common to all Model classes to share functionality (database persistency methods, parameter validation code etc.) I have yet to see a real world Python app employing MVC, so my approach is probably un-Pythonic (and possibly a language-agnostic mess on top of that...) - any suggestions on how to solve this? Thanks, Simon

MVC model structure in Python

python,model-view-controller,model,structure

Generally, we put it all in one file. This isn't Java or C++. Start with a single file until you get some more experience with Python. Unless your files are gargantuan, it will work fine. For example, Django encourages this style, so copy their formula for success. One module for the model. A module for each application; each application imports a common model. Your Database and superclass stuff can be in your __init__.py file, since it applies to the entire package. That may reduce some of the circularity.

2008-10-08T23:46:00.000

I'm having problems structuring classes in the Model part of an MVC pattern in my Python app. No matter how I turn things, I keep running into circular imports. Here's what I have: Model/__init__p.y should hold all Model class names so I can do a "from Model import User" e.g. from a Controller or a unit test case Model/Database.py holds Database class needs to import all Model classes to do ORM initialization should be performed on first module import, i.e. no extra init calls or instantiations (all methods on Database class are @classmethods) Model/User.py contains User model class needs access to Database class to do queries should inherit from base class common to all Model classes to share functionality (database persistency methods, parameter validation code etc.) I have yet to see a real world Python app employing MVC, so my approach is probably un-Pythonic (and possibly a language-agnostic mess on top of that...) - any suggestions on how to solve this? Thanks, Simon

MVC model structure in Python

python,model-view-controller,model,structure

I think you have one issue that should be straightened. Circular references often result from a failure to achieve separation of concerns. In my opinion, the database and model modules shouldn't know much about each other, working against an API instead. In this case the database shouldn't directly reference any specific model classes but instead provide the functionality the model classes will need to function. The model in turn, should get a database reference (injected or requested) that it would use to query and persist itself.

2008-10-08T23:46:00.000

I'm having problems structuring classes in the Model part of an MVC pattern in my Python app. No matter how I turn things, I keep running into circular imports. Here's what I have: Model/__init__p.y should hold all Model class names so I can do a "from Model import User" e.g. from a Controller or a unit test case Model/Database.py holds Database class needs to import all Model classes to do ORM initialization should be performed on first module import, i.e. no extra init calls or instantiations (all methods on Database class are @classmethods) Model/User.py contains User model class needs access to Database class to do queries should inherit from base class common to all Model classes to share functionality (database persistency methods, parameter validation code etc.) I have yet to see a real world Python app employing MVC, so my approach is probably un-Pythonic (and possibly a language-agnostic mess on top of that...) - any suggestions on how to solve this? Thanks, Simon

Python Webframework Confusion

python,pylons,cherrypy,web-frameworks,turbogears

Give a try to web2py. It is point and click (you do not even need to install Python, comes with it). You develop using a web interface and you can deploy almost everywhere, including iPhone, Oracle and Google App Engine. Before trying web2py, try install some of the other Python frameworks, you will appreciate it even more.

2008-10-10T12:40:00.000

Could someone please explain to me how the current python webframworks fit together? The three I've heard of are CherryPy, TurboGears and Pylons. However I'm confused because TurboGears seems to use CherryPy as the 'Controller' (although isn't CherryPy a framework in in it's own right?), and TurbGears 2 is going to be built on top of Pylons (which I thought did the same thing?).

Python Webframework Confusion

python,pylons,cherrypy,web-frameworks,turbogears

CherryPy is not a full-stack web framework (like Django for example), in fact it isn't a web framework but a HTTP framework. Writing a web application using CherryPy is much like writing a regular object-oriented application in Python. Also, CherryPy has it's own production-ready WSGI web server, which can be also used for applications written using other frameworks, hence the confusion surrounding CherryPy as a framework.

2008-10-10T12:40:00.000

Could someone please explain to me how the current python webframworks fit together? The three I've heard of are CherryPy, TurboGears and Pylons. However I'm confused because TurboGears seems to use CherryPy as the 'Controller' (although isn't CherryPy a framework in in it's own right?), and TurbGears 2 is going to be built on top of Pylons (which I thought did the same thing?).

Running a web app in Grails vs Django

python,django,grails,groovy,web-applications

With Java hosting you don't need to do all the stupid tricks with apache, or nginx. Jetty itself can host everything you need, that's how the guys at www.mor.ph do it, and they find it to be pretty fast. The memory usage that way is pretty minimal, I host mine on a 256MB Ubuntu server from RapidXen, so it's about $10/month. I tried developing in Django, and while it runs all the scripts faster (like bootstrapping, or test cases) it's not as well-crafted in my oppinion

2008-10-12T04:36:00.000

I'm currently in the planning stage for a web application and I find myself trying to decide on using Grails or Django. From an operation perspective: Which ecosystem is easier to maintain (migrations, backup, disaster recovery etc.)? If using grails it'll probably be a typical tomcat + mysql on linux. If django it'll be apache + mysql on linux. Does django or grails have a better choice of cheap and flexible hosting? Initially it'll probably be low bandwidth requirements. I'm not sure about the exact specs required, but from what I've been reading it seems like django would require far less server resources (even 256MB server is ok) than grails.

Running a web app in Grails vs Django

python,django,grails,groovy,web-applications

i think python tend to have lower hosting requirements (i.e., grails needs a jvm, and most el-cheapo hosts dont provide one, where as they usually provide python support). Plus google app engine supports django (to some extend). But if you got the dough, grails is so much better imho.

2008-10-12T04:36:00.000

I'm currently in the planning stage for a web application and I find myself trying to decide on using Grails or Django. From an operation perspective: Which ecosystem is easier to maintain (migrations, backup, disaster recovery etc.)? If using grails it'll probably be a typical tomcat + mysql on linux. If django it'll be apache + mysql on linux. Does django or grails have a better choice of cheap and flexible hosting? Initially it'll probably be low bandwidth requirements. I'm not sure about the exact specs required, but from what I've been reading it seems like django would require far less server resources (even 256MB server is ok) than grails.

Running a web app in Grails vs Django

python,django,grails,groovy,web-applications

I think from an operations perspective things are going to be close enough that you can base your decision on other criteria. If you can afford a virtual private server with at least 256 MB RAM you will be able to deploy Grails applications. If the cost seems like a lot check out Sun. They are really pushing hosting solutions based on their product stack and there are some greats deals available. I have free hosting from Layered Tech for a year through Ostatic.

2008-10-12T04:36:00.000

I'm currently in the planning stage for a web application and I find myself trying to decide on using Grails or Django. From an operation perspective: Which ecosystem is easier to maintain (migrations, backup, disaster recovery etc.)? If using grails it'll probably be a typical tomcat + mysql on linux. If django it'll be apache + mysql on linux. Does django or grails have a better choice of cheap and flexible hosting? Initially it'll probably be low bandwidth requirements. I'm not sure about the exact specs required, but from what I've been reading it seems like django would require far less server resources (even 256MB server is ok) than grails.

In production, Apache + mod_wsgi or Nginx + mod_wsgi?

python,apache,nginx,mod-wsgi

The main difference is that nginx is built to handle large numbers of connections in a much smaller memory space. This makes it very well suited for apps that are doing comet like connections that can have many idle open connections. This also gives it quite a smaller memory foot print. From a raw performance perspective, nginx is faster, but not so much faster that I would include that as a determining factor. Apache has the advantage in the area of modules available, and the fact that it is pretty much standard. Any web host you go with will have it installed, and most techs are going to be very familiar with it. Also, if you use mod_wsgi, it is your wsgi server so you don't even need cherrypy. Other than that, the best advice I can give is try setting up your app under both and do some benchmarking, since no matter what any one tells you, your mileage may vary.

2008-10-12T14:14:00.000

What to use for a medium to large python WSGI application, Apache + mod_wsgi or Nginx + mod_wsgi? Which combination will need more memory and CPU time? Which one is faster? Which is known for being more stable than the other? I am also thinking to use CherryPy's WSGI server but I hear it's not very suitable for a very high-load application, what do you know about this? Note: I didn't use any Python Web Framework, I just wrote the whole thing from scratch. Note': Other suggestions are also welcome.

How can I port a legacy Java/J2EE website to a modern scripting language (PHP,Python/Django, etc)?

java,php,python,django,jakarta-ee

A lot of the recommendations being given here are assuming you -- and just you -- are doing a full rewrite of the application. This is probably not the case, and it changes the answer quite a bit If you've already got J2EE kicking around, the correct answer is Grails. It simply is: you probably already have Hibernate and Spring kicking around, and you're going to want the ability to flip back and forth between your old code and your new with a minimum amount of pain. That's exactly Groovy's forte, and it is even smoother than JRuby in this regards. Also, if you've already got a J2EE app kicking around, you've already got Java developers kicking around. In that case, learning Groovy is like falling off a ladder -- literally. With the exception of anonymous inner classes, Groovy is a pure superset of Java, which means that you can write Java code, call it Groovy, and be done with it. As you become increasingly comfortable with the nicities of Groovy, you can integrate them into your Java-ish Groovy code. Before too long, you'll be writing very Groovy code, and not even really have realized the transition.

2008-10-14T00:23:00.000

I want to move a legacy Java web application (J2EE) to a scripting language - any scripting language - in order to improve programming efficiency. What is the easiest way to do this? Are there any automated tools that can convert the bulk of the business logic?

How can I port a legacy Java/J2EE website to a modern scripting language (PHP,Python/Django, etc)?

java,php,python,django,jakarta-ee

Using an automated tool to "port" the web application will almost certainly guarantee that future programming efficiency will be minimised -- not improved. A good scripting language can help programming efficiency when used by good programmers who understand good coding practices in that language. Automated tools are usually not designed to output code that is elegent or well-written, only code that works. You'll only get an improvement in programming efficiency after you've put in the effort to re-implement the web app -- which, due to the time required for the reimplementation, may or may not result in an improvement overall.

2008-10-14T00:23:00.000

I want to move a legacy Java web application (J2EE) to a scripting language - any scripting language - in order to improve programming efficiency. What is the easiest way to do this? Are there any automated tools that can convert the bulk of the business logic?

How can I port a legacy Java/J2EE website to a modern scripting language (PHP,Python/Django, etc)?

java,php,python,django,jakarta-ee

Here's what you have to do. First, be sure you can walk before you run. Build something simple, possibly tangentially related to your main project. DO NOT build a piece of the final project and hope it will "evolve" into the final project. This never works out well. Why? You'll make dumb mistakes. But you can't delete or rework them because you're supposed to evolve that mistake into the final project. Next, pick a a framework. What? Second? Yes. Second. Until you actually do something with some scripting languages and frameworks, you have no real useful concept of what you're doing. Once you've built something, you now have an informed opinion. "Wait," you say. "To do step 1 I had to pick a framework." True. Step 1, however, contains decisions you're allowed to revoke. Pick the wrong framework for step 1 has no long-term bad effects. It was just learning. Third, with your strategic framework, and some experience, break down your existing site into pieces you can build with your new framework. Prioritize those pieces from most important to least important. DO NOT plan the entire conversion as one massive project. It never works. It makes a big job more complex than necessary. We'll use Django as the example framework. You'll have templates, view functions, model definitions, URL mapping and other details. For each build, do the following: Convert your existing model to a Django model. This won't ever fit your legacy SQL. You'll have to rethink your model, fix old mistakes, correct old bugs that you've always wanted to correct. Write unit tests. Build a conversion utility to export old data and import into the new model. Build Django admin pages to touch and feel the new data. Pick representative pages and rework them into the appropriate templates. You might make use of some legacy JSP pages. However, don't waste too much time with this. Use the HTML to create Django templates. Plan your URL's and view functions. Sometimes, these view functions will leverage legacy action classes. Don't "convert". Rewrite from scratch. Use your new language and framework. The only thing that's worth preserving is the data and the operational concept. Don't try to preserve or convert the code. It's misleading. You might convert unittests from JUnit to Python unittest. I gave this advice a few months ago. I had to do some coaching and review during the processing. The revised site is up and running. No conversion from the old technology; they did the suggested rewrite from scratch. Developer happy. Site works well.

2008-10-14T00:23:00.000

I want to move a legacy Java web application (J2EE) to a scripting language - any scripting language - in order to improve programming efficiency. What is the easiest way to do this? Are there any automated tools that can convert the bulk of the business logic?

What would you recommend for a high traffic ajax intensive website?

php,python,lighttpd,cherrypy,high-load

I would go with nginx + php + xcache + postgresql

2008-10-15T13:57:00.000

For a website like reddit with lots of up/down votes and lots of comments per topic what should I go with? Lighttpd/Php or Lighttpd/CherryPy/Genshi/SQLAlchemy? and for database what would scale better / be fastest MySQL ( 4.1 or 5 ? ) or PostgreSQL?

What would you recommend for a high traffic ajax intensive website?

php,python,lighttpd,cherrypy,high-load

Going to need more data. Jeff had a few articles on the same problems and the answer was to wait till you hit a performance issue. to start with - who is hosting and what do they have available ? what's your in house talent skill sets ? Are you going to be hiring an outside firm ? what do they recommend ? brand new project w/ a team willing to learn a new framework ? 2nd thing is to do some mockups - how is the interface going to work. what data does it need to load and persist ? the idea is to keep your traffic between the web and db side down. e.g. no chatty pages with lots of queries. etc. Once you have a better idea of the data requirements and flow - then work on the database design. there are plenty of rules to follow but one of the better ones is to follow normalization rules (yea i'm a db guy why ?) Now you have a couple of pages build - run your tests. are you having a problem ? Yes, now look at what is it. Page serving or db pulls ? Measure then pick a course of action.

2008-10-15T13:57:00.000

For a website like reddit with lots of up/down votes and lots of comments per topic what should I go with? Lighttpd/Php or Lighttpd/CherryPy/Genshi/SQLAlchemy? and for database what would scale better / be fastest MySQL ( 4.1 or 5 ? ) or PostgreSQL?

What would you recommend for a high traffic ajax intensive website?

php,python,lighttpd,cherrypy,high-load

I can't speak to the MySQL/PostgreSQL question as I have limited experience with Postgres, but my Masters research project was about high-performance websites with CherryPy, and I don't think you'll be disappointed if you use CherryPy for your site. It can easily scale to thousands of simultaneous users on commodity hardware. Of course, the same could be said for PHP, and I don't know of any reasonable benchmarks comparing PHP and CherryPy performance. But if you were wondering whether CherryPy can handle a high-traffic site with a huge number of requests per second, the answer is definitely yes.

2008-10-15T13:57:00.000

For a website like reddit with lots of up/down votes and lots of comments per topic what should I go with? Lighttpd/Php or Lighttpd/CherryPy/Genshi/SQLAlchemy? and for database what would scale better / be fastest MySQL ( 4.1 or 5 ? ) or PostgreSQL?

What would you recommend for a high traffic ajax intensive website?

php,python,lighttpd,cherrypy,high-load

On the DB question, I'd say PostgreSQL scales better and has better data integrity than MySQL. For a small site MySQL might be faster, but from what I've heard it slows significantly as the size of the database grows. (Note: I've never used MySQL for a large database, so you should probably get a second opinion about its scalability.) But PostgreSQL definitely scales well, and would be a good choice for a high traffic site.

2008-10-15T13:57:00.000

For a website like reddit with lots of up/down votes and lots of comments per topic what should I go with? Lighttpd/Php or Lighttpd/CherryPy/Genshi/SQLAlchemy? and for database what would scale better / be fastest MySQL ( 4.1 or 5 ? ) or PostgreSQL?

Starting a new database driven python web application would you use a javascript widget framework? If so which framework?

javascript,python,frameworks

web2py uses jQuery

2008-10-15T15:37:00.000

I am starting a new web application project. I want to use python as I am using it at my bread-and-butter-job. However I don't want to reinvent the wheel. Some things I have thought about: AJAX would be nice if it’s not too much of a hazzle. It is best if the licensing allows commercialization but is not crucial at this point. It could also be funny to try out the Google App Engine if the tools will let me. Should I be using a javascript UI framework or should I go for standard HTML forms? Which framework would you recommend?

Using os.execvp in Python

python,shell,exec

Make sure you aren't relying on shell expansion in your classpath. E.g. "~/my.jar" will get expanded by the shell in an os.system call, but not, I believe in an os.execvp call.

2008-10-17T03:04:00.000

I have a question about using os.execvp in Python. I have the following bit of code that's used to create a list of arguments: args = [ "java" , classpath , "-Djava.library.path=" + lib_path() , ea , "-Xmx1000m" , "-server" , "code_swarm" , params ] When I output a string using " ".join(args) and paste that into my shell prompt, the JVM launches fine, and everything works. Everything works if I use os.system(" ".join(args)) in my Python script, too. But the following bit of code does not work: os.execvp("java", args) I get the following error: Unrecognized option: -classpath [and then the classpath I created, which looks okay] Could not create the Java virtual machine. So what gives? Why does copying/pasting into the shell or using os.system() work, but not os.execvp()?

Scripting in Java

java,javascript,python,scripting-language

Short version Don’t use a scripting language! Instead focus on configurability (which is something that a non-programmer can do well). Longer version One oft-used argument in favour of having a scripting language is that it allows for lesser programmers to more trivial tasks. Don't belive this, it will not save you any time, since trivial tasks are already accomplished by real programmers in no time. Aim for configurability instead of scripting, and you will have a much lower risk of bleeding over complex algorithms and concepts into the incapable hands of game designers. :) Lack of hotswapping (edit-and-continue) would have been a reason to implement a scripting language in an MMOG (you don’t want to reload the whole game for a minor code change), but using Java, with built-in hotswap, you really have no reason for adding a scripting language on top. I have spent years pondering these questions; in the day I implemented a complete scripting language, IDE, VM, debugger, etc for an MMOG myself. Since, I have grown wiser. If you still choose to go down the infinitely crappy path of no return, keep the following in mind. Pick a mature language which has been around for a while. Auto testing, debugging and editing will suck bigtime until you make your own tools/plugins/start hacking around in the VM. To date, I have never seen a DSL that improved the situation (getting a more maintainable product). Myself, I integrated Python into my indie game engine, but eventually came to my senses and ripped it out. "Stackless Python" is just a way of saying "unmaintainable but fast". Please, anyone correct me if I'm wrong?

2008-10-17T09:23:00.000

Me and some friends are writing a MORPG in Java, and we would like to use a scripting language to, eg. to create quests. We have non experience with scripting in Java. We have used Python, but we are very inexperienced with it. One of us also have used Javascript. What scripting language should we use? What scripting language should we not use?

Scripting in Java

java,javascript,python,scripting-language

I am a big fan of Python/Jython due to the clean syntax - which may suit you if you have some python experience. Otherwise Groovy which is based on Java syntax and may be an easier learning curve if most of your developers are Java guys. It also has the advantage of closer ties with the Java language and libraries. Beanshell is good if you have simple scripting in mind - it doesn't support classes. However I don't think it has had any support over the last few years (the JSR seemed to kill it off...) so is perhaps a bad choice if support is important to you.

2008-10-17T09:23:00.000

Me and some friends are writing a MORPG in Java, and we would like to use a scripting language to, eg. to create quests. We have non experience with scripting in Java. We have used Python, but we are very inexperienced with it. One of us also have used Javascript. What scripting language should we use? What scripting language should we not use?

Scripting in Java

java,javascript,python,scripting-language

I'm responsible for a fairly large hybrid Java/Jython system. We use java for core API development, then wire Java objects together using Jython. This is in a scientific computing environment where we need to be able to put together ad-hoc data analysis scripts quickly. If I were starting this system from scratch today, I would not choose Jython as the scripting language. I like Python fine, but I frequently encounter awkward mismatches between the Python type system and the Java type system. For example, if you just want a hashtable, should you use a Python dictionary or a Java HashMap? The decision might be different depending on whether you are just using the data structure locally in Python code or passing it across the Java boundary. Jython does a certain amount of type coercion for you, but it's not perfect. It's annoying to even have to think about issues like this when the purpose of using a scripting language in the first place is to enhance your productivity. I assume JavaScript or JRuby would have similar issues. Today I would choose a scripting language that is specifically targeted to the JVM and leverages the Java type system. The obvious candidates are Groovy and Beanshell; Groovy seems to have been picking up momentum lately so I'd look most closely at it.

2008-10-17T09:23:00.000

Me and some friends are writing a MORPG in Java, and we would like to use a scripting language to, eg. to create quests. We have non experience with scripting in Java. We have used Python, but we are very inexperienced with it. One of us also have used Javascript. What scripting language should we use? What scripting language should we not use?

Python templates for web designers

python,templating

I've played both roles and at heart I prefer more of a programmer's templating language. However, I freelance for a few graphic designers doing the "heavy lifting" backed and db programming and can tell you that I've had the best luck with XML templating languages (SimpleTAL, Genshi, etc). When I'm trying to be web designer friendly I look for something that can be loaded into Dreamweaver and see results. This allows me to provide all the hooks in a template and let the designer tweak it without worrying about breaking what I've already written. It allows us to share the code and work better together where we're both comfortable with the format. If the designer codes without a WYSIWYG editor, I think you're options are less limited and you could go with your own personal favorite.

2008-10-18T03:56:00.000

What are some good templating engines for web designers? I definitely have my preferences as to what I'd prefer to work with as a programmer. But web designers seem to have a different way of thinking about things and thus may prefer a different system. So: Web designers: what templating engine do you prefer to work with? programmers: what templating engines have you worked with that made working with web designers easy?

What's the difference between a parent and a reference property in Google App Engine?

python,api,google-app-engine

There are several differences: All entities with the same ancestor are in the same entity group. Transactions can only affect entities inside a single entity group. All writes to a single entity group are serialized, so throughput is limited. The parent entity is set on creation and is fixed. References can be changed at any time. With reference properties, you can only query for direct relationships, but with parent properties you can use the .ancestor() filter to find everything (directly or indirectly) descended from a given ancestor. Each entity has only a single parent, but can have multiple reference properties.

2008-10-18T21:12:00.000

From what I understand, the parent attribute of a db.Model (typically defined/passed in the constructor call) allows you to define hierarchies in your data models. As a result, this increases the size of the entity group. However, it's not very clear to me why we would want to do that. Is this strictly for ACID compliance? I would like to see scenarios where each is best suited or more appropriate.

How close are development webservers to production webservers?

python,webserver,web-frameworks

Your staging environment should mimic your production environment. Development is more like a playground, and the control on the development environment should not be quite so strict. However, the development environment should periodically be refreshed from the production environment (e.g,. prod data copied to the dev db, close the ports on dev that are closed on prod, etc.). Ideally, dev, stage, and prod are all on separate machines. The separate machines can be separate physical boxes, or virtual machines on the same physical box, depending on budget/needs.

2008-10-19T14:45:00.000

Most python frameworks will have a development webserver of some kind that will have a warning that it isn't for use as production servers. How much different do they tend to be from their production equivalents? I haven't quite decided which framework to go with, much less what production server to use, so it's kinda difficult for me to pin this down to a "compare development server x to production server y." So with that said, let me make the question a little bit more precise: In your past experience with a python framework, how much time did you have to spend getting your application up and running with a production system once its been developed on a development server? Or did you skip the development server and develop your app on a server that's more like what you will use in production?

How close are development webservers to production webservers?

python,webserver,web-frameworks

Generally, they are same in terms of the settings which are required to run the applications which include the environment setting. However, the clients genereally have dev systems which are less powerful in terms of the processing power and other h/w resources. I have seen using them virtual servers in dev evironment since they generally have multiple projects going on in parallel an this helps them reducing the cost.

2008-10-19T14:45:00.000

Most python frameworks will have a development webserver of some kind that will have a warning that it isn't for use as production servers. How much different do they tend to be from their production equivalents? I haven't quite decided which framework to go with, much less what production server to use, so it's kinda difficult for me to pin this down to a "compare development server x to production server y." So with that said, let me make the question a little bit more precise: In your past experience with a python framework, how much time did you have to spend getting your application up and running with a production system once its been developed on a development server? Or did you skip the development server and develop your app on a server that's more like what you will use in production?

How close are development webservers to production webservers?

python,webserver,web-frameworks

The lower environments should try to match the production environment as closely as possible given the resources available. This applies to all development efforts regardless of whether they are python-based or even web-based. In practical terms, most organizations are not willing to spend that type of money. In this case try to make at least the environment that is directly below production as close to production as possible. Some of the variable to keep in mind are: many times there are multiple machines (app server, database server, web server, load balancers, fire walls, etc) in a production. Keep these all in mind. Operating Systems number of CPUs. Moving from a one CPU lower environment to a multi core production environment can expose multi-threading issues that were not tested load balancing. Many times lower environments are not load balanced. If you are replicating sessions (for instance) across multiple production app servers, you should try to do the same in a lower environment Software / library versions

2008-10-19T14:45:00.000

Most python frameworks will have a development webserver of some kind that will have a warning that it isn't for use as production servers. How much different do they tend to be from their production equivalents? I haven't quite decided which framework to go with, much less what production server to use, so it's kinda difficult for me to pin this down to a "compare development server x to production server y." So with that said, let me make the question a little bit more precise: In your past experience with a python framework, how much time did you have to spend getting your application up and running with a production system once its been developed on a development server? Or did you skip the development server and develop your app on a server that's more like what you will use in production?

How close are development webservers to production webservers?

python,webserver,web-frameworks

I develop with django. The production server we have is remote, so it's a pain to be using it for development. Thus, at first, I created a vm and tried to match as closely as I could the environment of the prod server. At some point that vm got hosed (due to an unrelated incident). I took stock of the situation at that time and realized there really was no good reason to be using a customized vm for development. Since the resources available to the app weren't the same as the prod server, it was no good for timing queries anyway (in an absolute sense). That said, I now use django's built in dev server with sqlite for development, and apache/wsgi and postgresql for production. As long as the python dependencies are met on both sides, it's 100% compatible. The only potential problem would be writing raw sql instead of using the orm.

2008-10-19T14:45:00.000

Most python frameworks will have a development webserver of some kind that will have a warning that it isn't for use as production servers. How much different do they tend to be from their production equivalents? I haven't quite decided which framework to go with, much less what production server to use, so it's kinda difficult for me to pin this down to a "compare development server x to production server y." So with that said, let me make the question a little bit more precise: In your past experience with a python framework, how much time did you have to spend getting your application up and running with a production system once its been developed on a development server? Or did you skip the development server and develop your app on a server that's more like what you will use in production?

How does one put a link / url to the web-site's home page in Django?

python,django,django-urls

I always use something like <a href="/"> (assuming your home is at the root, of course). I seem to recall looking this up once, and couldn't find a Django variable for this path; at any rate, / seemed pretty easy, anyway.

2008-10-22T16:14:00.000

In Django templates, is there a variable in the context (e.g. {{ BASE\_URL }}, {{ ROOT\_URL }}, or {{ MEDIA\_URL }} that one can use to link to the home url of a project? I.e. if Django is running in the root of a project, the variable (let's call it R) {{ R }} in a template would be /. If the root url is a sub-folder http://host/X/ the variable {{ R }} would be /X/ (or http://host/X/). It seems painfully simple, but I can't find an answer. :) Thank you!

Will Django be a good choice for a permissions based web-app?

python,django,permissions

The Django permission system totally rules. Each model has a default set of permissions. You can add new permissions to your models, also. Each User has a set of permissions as well as group memberships. Individual users can have individual permissions. And they inherit permissions from their group membership. Your view functions (and templates) can easily check the presence of absence of those permissions at any level of granularity you need to use. And if this isn't enough for you, the Profile add-on gives you yet more options for defining a "User" and their capabilities, permissions, roles, responsibilities, etc. And if this isn't enough for you, you can define your own authentication schemes. What's important is not to try and define groups that are actual subsets of users, not casually defined titles or roles. You never need to "set permissions for a sub-set of a group". You need to have smaller groups. Groups defined around subsets of people. Django's default permissions are around model access, not row access within a model. On the other hand, your problem is about subsets of rows in several models: Client, Store, Employee, Manager. You'll need a basic set of FK's among these items, and some filters to subset the rows. You may have trouble doing this with default admin pages. You may need your own version of admin to make use of specialized filters. If you can't do it with the Django permission system, you should rethink your use cases. Seriously. [The Django-REST Interface, however, is another beast entirely, and requires some care and feeding.]

2008-10-23T23:50:00.000

I've been exploring the details of Django for about a week now and like what I see. However I've come upon some.. negativity in relation to fine-grained control of permissions to the CRUD interface. What I'm writing is an Intranet client management web-app. The organisation is about 6 tiers, and I need to restrict access to client groups based on tiers. Continually expanding. I have a fairly good idea how I'm going to do this, but am not sure if I'll be able to integrate it well into the pre-built admin interface. I've done absolutely zero Django development otherwise I'd probably have a better idea on whether this would work or not. I probably won't use Django if the generated admin interface is going to be useless to this project - but like I said, there is a heavy reliance on fine-grained custom permissions. Will Django let me build custom permissions/rules and integrate it seamlessly into the admin CRUD interface? Update One: I want to use the admin app to minimise the repitition of generating CRUD interfaces, so yes I consider it a must have. Update Two: I want to describe the permissions required for this project. A client can belong to one or many 'stores'. Full time employees should only be able to edit clients at their store (even if they belong to another store). However, they should not be able to see/edit clients at another store. Casuals should only be able to view clients based on what store they are rostered too (or if the casual is logged in as the store user - more likely). Management above them need to be able to see all employees for the stores they manage, nothing more. Senior management should be able to edit ALL employees and grant permissions below themselves. After reading the django documentation, it says you can't (autmoatically) set permissions for a sub-set of a group. Only the entire group. Is it easy enough to mock up your own permissions for this purpose?

How do you programmatically reorder children of an ATFolder subclass?

python,plone,zope,archetypes

Quickest solution: subclass from ATFolder instead of BaseFolder. That gives you all the "normal" reordering and other commmon plone folder capabilities (which I suspect you also want). If you want to be more selective, look into Products/ATContentTypes/content/base.py: ATCTOrderedFolder and OrderedBaseFolder.

2008-10-25T23:41:00.000

I have Plone product that uses a custom folder type for containing a set of custom content objects. The folder type was created by subclassing BaseFolder and it has a schema with a couple of text fields. Currently, when custom objects are added to the custom folder, the objects are sorted alphabetically by their id. How can I override this behavior and allow my users to sort the custom folders manually, say through the "Contents" view?

How do you log server errors on django sites

python,django,error-logging

You can use the logging library in Python, no need to pip install anything. Replace any print() with logging.debug() but, Django Sentry is a good way to go as EMP said.

2008-10-26T14:37:00.000

So, when playing with the development I can just set settings.DEBUG to True and if an error occures I can see it nicely formatted, with good stack trace and request information. But on kind of production site I'd rather use DEBUG=False and show visitors some standard error 500 page with information that I'm working on fixing this bug at this moment ;) At the same time I'd like to have some way of logging all those information (stack trace and request info) to a file on my server - so I can just output it to my console and watch errors scroll, email the log to me every hour or something like this. What logging solutions would you recomend for a django-site, that would meet those simple requirements? I have the application running as fcgi server and I'm using apache web server as frontend (although thinking of going to lighttpd).

Possible to integrate Google AppEngine and Google Code for continuous integration?

python,svn,google-app-engine,continuous-integration,google-code

For those of us who are using Github, this feature from the GAE team would make us all seriously consider switching to Google Code...

2008-10-27T18:43:00.000

Anyone have any thoughts on how/if it is possible to integrate Google Code commits to cause a Google AppEngine deployment of the most recent code? I have a simple Google AppEngine project's source hosted on Google Code and would love if everytime I committed to Subversion, that AppEngine would reflect the latest commit. I don't mind if things are broken on the live site since the project is for personal use mainly and for learning. Anyone have any thoughts on how to tie into the subversion commit for the Code repository and/or how to kickoff the deployment to AppEngine? Ideally the solution would not require anything manual from me nor any type of server/listener software on my machine.

Possible to integrate Google AppEngine and Google Code for continuous integration?

python,svn,google-app-engine,continuous-integration,google-code

Very interesting, but not yet possible, AFAIK. I have been looking for that option in Google Code with no success. The only solution I can figure out is to install something in your machine that checks for changes in your SVN repository. I'll be happy to hear about other approaches.

2008-10-27T18:43:00.000

Anyone have any thoughts on how/if it is possible to integrate Google Code commits to cause a Google AppEngine deployment of the most recent code? I have a simple Google AppEngine project's source hosted on Google Code and would love if everytime I committed to Subversion, that AppEngine would reflect the latest commit. I don't mind if things are broken on the live site since the project is for personal use mainly and for learning. Anyone have any thoughts on how to tie into the subversion commit for the Code repository and/or how to kickoff the deployment to AppEngine? Ideally the solution would not require anything manual from me nor any type of server/listener software on my machine.

Framework/CMS suggestions for enterprise website & intranet (I've got to convince the president its solid!)

python,frameworks,content-management-system,enterprise

The first thing that comes to mind here is that you're approaching this all wrong. It seems like you're looking for a pet project for yourself and trying to decide what you'd like to do best. You didn't specify the scope of who is going to be managing this site.. which is the real question. Is it just you? Is it the management team? Is it each division? Making a huge decision like this takes a lot of time and thought. We spend a lot of time just helping our clients choose the right CMS for their needs. There are a lot out there and a decision like this is not something to be taken lightly. A lot are good in the right situation and HORRIBLE in others. Also, what is right for you as the developer isn't necessarily right for your end user. As someone up there suggested, you need a lot more research into what the requirements are before anyone (including the developer community) can make any suggestions about what is best to use.

2008-10-27T22:19:00.000

Dear stack overflow community, I've been given the task of overhauling a couple of websites for a large corporation I'm working for, as well as developing an internal intranet site for content management and document storage within the organization. My "problem" is this: They want me to use a framework/set of languages/technologies that I can prove to them are "stable, enterprise-ready technologies with a proven track record." The spec's "big picture" really isn't too complicated: Implement an enterprise-class CMS for management of each division's web pages that deal mostly with product information and documentation (i.e. a simpler version of www.linksys.com). As an open-source programmer, I'd like to use Python with TurboGears and build it from scratch, but I can't really find a way to prove to the president that TurboGears has a huge enterprise track record. Zope seems to have a lot of enterprise usage, but it looks a bit bloated to me. Django could be an option, but doesn't seem as flexible as TurboGears. I'd rather not use PHP, but Drupal has a very nice resume with the "right" names under it (AOL, Sony, MTV); plus it could save me building many of the CMS components from scratch. Rails might be another option, but I'm not too familiar with it (and as a Python/PHP programmer, Ruby's syntax drives me crazy). What would the S.O. community suggest for a project like this? I'm sure many of you have faced the same dilemma. What ended up working/not working for you? As I said before, my first choice would be Python, second would be PHP, third would be Rails. Thank you, Seth

Framework/CMS suggestions for enterprise website & intranet (I've got to convince the president its solid!)

python,frameworks,content-management-system,enterprise

CMS for a medium-big company is not about Software. It is about proccesses and policies. Very true! Association with prestigious names is not necessarily an indicator of pleasing end results. I like Sony products, yes, but on the various occasions on which I have sought support from Sony sites I have felt like banging my head against a brick wall! Those head-cracking sites may not have been Drupal-oriented, I have no idea, but the point is: don't be sucked in by big names alone. An issue you should expect is: preconceptions of what may be achieved (or constrained) by a system. Allow yourself some learning time with Plone — ideally, for a large project such as this, invest in expert advice — and you'll realise that traditional-ish ideas of what a system can or should accomplish are mostly exceeded by Plone's capabilities. Gauge user requirements with a very open mind (not based on simplicities such as "I'd like a system that's equal to system x") then come to plone.org | Support | Chat Room to further discuss your requirements.

2008-10-27T22:19:00.000

Dear stack overflow community, I've been given the task of overhauling a couple of websites for a large corporation I'm working for, as well as developing an internal intranet site for content management and document storage within the organization. My "problem" is this: They want me to use a framework/set of languages/technologies that I can prove to them are "stable, enterprise-ready technologies with a proven track record." The spec's "big picture" really isn't too complicated: Implement an enterprise-class CMS for management of each division's web pages that deal mostly with product information and documentation (i.e. a simpler version of www.linksys.com). As an open-source programmer, I'd like to use Python with TurboGears and build it from scratch, but I can't really find a way to prove to the president that TurboGears has a huge enterprise track record. Zope seems to have a lot of enterprise usage, but it looks a bit bloated to me. Django could be an option, but doesn't seem as flexible as TurboGears. I'd rather not use PHP, but Drupal has a very nice resume with the "right" names under it (AOL, Sony, MTV); plus it could save me building many of the CMS components from scratch. Rails might be another option, but I'm not too familiar with it (and as a Python/PHP programmer, Ruby's syntax drives me crazy). What would the S.O. community suggest for a project like this? I'm sure many of you have faced the same dilemma. What ended up working/not working for you? As I said before, my first choice would be Python, second would be PHP, third would be Rails. Thank you, Seth

Framework/CMS suggestions for enterprise website & intranet (I've got to convince the president its solid!)

python,frameworks,content-management-system,enterprise

I agree with Will's, braveterry's and Divamatrix's comments. Fully. There are tons of questions/issues/risks/considerations to take in order to succesfully launch a CMS solution for a medium/big enterprise. I will not repeat what Will and braveterry had said, instead of it I will offer a different point of view: CMS for a medium-big company is not about Software. It is about proccesses and policies. Which framework/tool to use must be dependent on exact requirements (kind of content, sources for content, who will be responsible to capture and create content, what are their abilities, who will be approving content updates, which departments will have a voice on what goes into the home page?, under which policies will be selected the content for the home page?, what will be the puropose for the home page? (marketing? sales? technical? branding?). If the answers to these questions (there are lot more) are not clear to you or even if you do not get why are SO important. Then I think you need to contract a seasoned consulting firm. PS: This gives me the idea to publish some sort of paper about this topic but that would take some days as I currently do not have the time to prepare it.

2008-10-27T22:19:00.000

Dear stack overflow community, I've been given the task of overhauling a couple of websites for a large corporation I'm working for, as well as developing an internal intranet site for content management and document storage within the organization. My "problem" is this: They want me to use a framework/set of languages/technologies that I can prove to them are "stable, enterprise-ready technologies with a proven track record." The spec's "big picture" really isn't too complicated: Implement an enterprise-class CMS for management of each division's web pages that deal mostly with product information and documentation (i.e. a simpler version of www.linksys.com). As an open-source programmer, I'd like to use Python with TurboGears and build it from scratch, but I can't really find a way to prove to the president that TurboGears has a huge enterprise track record. Zope seems to have a lot of enterprise usage, but it looks a bit bloated to me. Django could be an option, but doesn't seem as flexible as TurboGears. I'd rather not use PHP, but Drupal has a very nice resume with the "right" names under it (AOL, Sony, MTV); plus it could save me building many of the CMS components from scratch. Rails might be another option, but I'm not too familiar with it (and as a Python/PHP programmer, Ruby's syntax drives me crazy). What would the S.O. community suggest for a project like this? I'm sure many of you have faced the same dilemma. What ended up working/not working for you? As I said before, my first choice would be Python, second would be PHP, third would be Rails. Thank you, Seth

Framework/CMS suggestions for enterprise website & intranet (I've got to convince the president its solid!)

python,frameworks,content-management-system,enterprise

No matter what you choose, don't use Typo3. It is a huge unhackable mess with its own idiotic template "script" language, near impossible to learn quickly, hard to teach to your enterprise users and damn ugly. No wonder there are shops which earn a living just doing Typo3 consulting. It is somewhat popular but don't think there is any decent documentation.

2008-10-27T22:19:00.000

Dear stack overflow community, I've been given the task of overhauling a couple of websites for a large corporation I'm working for, as well as developing an internal intranet site for content management and document storage within the organization. My "problem" is this: They want me to use a framework/set of languages/technologies that I can prove to them are "stable, enterprise-ready technologies with a proven track record." The spec's "big picture" really isn't too complicated: Implement an enterprise-class CMS for management of each division's web pages that deal mostly with product information and documentation (i.e. a simpler version of www.linksys.com). As an open-source programmer, I'd like to use Python with TurboGears and build it from scratch, but I can't really find a way to prove to the president that TurboGears has a huge enterprise track record. Zope seems to have a lot of enterprise usage, but it looks a bit bloated to me. Django could be an option, but doesn't seem as flexible as TurboGears. I'd rather not use PHP, but Drupal has a very nice resume with the "right" names under it (AOL, Sony, MTV); plus it could save me building many of the CMS components from scratch. Rails might be another option, but I'm not too familiar with it (and as a Python/PHP programmer, Ruby's syntax drives me crazy). What would the S.O. community suggest for a project like this? I'm sure many of you have faced the same dilemma. What ended up working/not working for you? As I said before, my first choice would be Python, second would be PHP, third would be Rails. Thank you, Seth

Framework/CMS suggestions for enterprise website & intranet (I've got to convince the president its solid!)

python,frameworks,content-management-system,enterprise

You'd like to build an Enterprise Class CMS from scratch? Just for one project? Are you crazy? Unless plan to go into the CMS business and have thousands and thousands of hours of development time there absolutely is no point to create a new one. There are excellent CMS's already out there. Drupal and Plone are the best in my opinion. I like Plone because its delightful to use. It's used by CIA, NASA, Akami, Novell and Ebay. Best wishes, Tony

2008-10-27T22:19:00.000

Dear stack overflow community, I've been given the task of overhauling a couple of websites for a large corporation I'm working for, as well as developing an internal intranet site for content management and document storage within the organization. My "problem" is this: They want me to use a framework/set of languages/technologies that I can prove to them are "stable, enterprise-ready technologies with a proven track record." The spec's "big picture" really isn't too complicated: Implement an enterprise-class CMS for management of each division's web pages that deal mostly with product information and documentation (i.e. a simpler version of www.linksys.com). As an open-source programmer, I'd like to use Python with TurboGears and build it from scratch, but I can't really find a way to prove to the president that TurboGears has a huge enterprise track record. Zope seems to have a lot of enterprise usage, but it looks a bit bloated to me. Django could be an option, but doesn't seem as flexible as TurboGears. I'd rather not use PHP, but Drupal has a very nice resume with the "right" names under it (AOL, Sony, MTV); plus it could save me building many of the CMS components from scratch. Rails might be another option, but I'm not too familiar with it (and as a Python/PHP programmer, Ruby's syntax drives me crazy). What would the S.O. community suggest for a project like this? I'm sure many of you have faced the same dilemma. What ended up working/not working for you? As I said before, my first choice would be Python, second would be PHP, third would be Rails. Thank you, Seth

Framework/CMS suggestions for enterprise website & intranet (I've got to convince the president its solid!)

python,frameworks,content-management-system,enterprise

This is a contradictory statement: "The spec's "big picture" really isn't too complicated: Implement an enterprise-class CMS for management of each division's web pages". "Enterprise Class" and "isn't too complicated" do not belong in the same sentence. Seriously. "Enterprise Class" stuff is complicated because "enterprise class" tasks and environments are complicated. Mind, just because something is deployed within an enterprise doesn't mean it requires an "enterprise class" tool. But those that DO have "enterprise class" requirements ARE complicated because the problem domain and deployment environment are complicated. So, you need to be more clear on your specs than "buzzword compliant", "my boss has heard of it", "never breaks", etc. CMS seems deceptively simple, but it's not. If it's geeks managing stuff for geeks, that's one thing, but CMSs tend to have great impact on non-technical end users which can dramatically complicate user interfaces, security, workflows, support, etc. Think "marketing wants to maintain the website", and that they're going to let their junior intern do it. So, seriously, without REAL requirements it's hard to suggest anything. And without REAL requirements, and a solid understanding of your user base, you most certainly should NOT just "roll your own".

2008-10-27T22:19:00.000

Dear stack overflow community, I've been given the task of overhauling a couple of websites for a large corporation I'm working for, as well as developing an internal intranet site for content management and document storage within the organization. My "problem" is this: They want me to use a framework/set of languages/technologies that I can prove to them are "stable, enterprise-ready technologies with a proven track record." The spec's "big picture" really isn't too complicated: Implement an enterprise-class CMS for management of each division's web pages that deal mostly with product information and documentation (i.e. a simpler version of www.linksys.com). As an open-source programmer, I'd like to use Python with TurboGears and build it from scratch, but I can't really find a way to prove to the president that TurboGears has a huge enterprise track record. Zope seems to have a lot of enterprise usage, but it looks a bit bloated to me. Django could be an option, but doesn't seem as flexible as TurboGears. I'd rather not use PHP, but Drupal has a very nice resume with the "right" names under it (AOL, Sony, MTV); plus it could save me building many of the CMS components from scratch. Rails might be another option, but I'm not too familiar with it (and as a Python/PHP programmer, Ruby's syntax drives me crazy). What would the S.O. community suggest for a project like this? I'm sure many of you have faced the same dilemma. What ended up working/not working for you? As I said before, my first choice would be Python, second would be PHP, third would be Rails. Thank you, Seth

Framework/CMS suggestions for enterprise website & intranet (I've got to convince the president its solid!)

python,frameworks,content-management-system,enterprise

"They want me to use a framework/set of languages/technologies that I can prove to them are "stable, enterprise-ready technologies with a proven track record."" There's no proof of those features. None. Is there some incumbent technology that they want you to use? If so, you might be swimming upstream. If you're fighting for your preferred technology, you probably can't win their hearts and minds without a serious proof of concept or pilot project or something. If they're willing to listen, they'd be more willing to listen if you had a demo that showed how rock-solid your preferred approach is. if there is no incumbent, then they're just wringing their hands. In this case, you'll need some evidence they actually believe -- a pilot project or a proof of concept. There's no Proof in this industry. For every technology you can find a proponent and an opponent. Even crap technology has proponents. Forget proof. Just pick something that you can use very rapidly. Get something up and running so quickly, with such high quality that you're obviously right and the rest of your opinions must be equally right. For this reason, flexibility has no value. Go with Django and get something to run ASAP.

2008-10-27T22:19:00.000

Dear stack overflow community, I've been given the task of overhauling a couple of websites for a large corporation I'm working for, as well as developing an internal intranet site for content management and document storage within the organization. My "problem" is this: They want me to use a framework/set of languages/technologies that I can prove to them are "stable, enterprise-ready technologies with a proven track record." The spec's "big picture" really isn't too complicated: Implement an enterprise-class CMS for management of each division's web pages that deal mostly with product information and documentation (i.e. a simpler version of www.linksys.com). As an open-source programmer, I'd like to use Python with TurboGears and build it from scratch, but I can't really find a way to prove to the president that TurboGears has a huge enterprise track record. Zope seems to have a lot of enterprise usage, but it looks a bit bloated to me. Django could be an option, but doesn't seem as flexible as TurboGears. I'd rather not use PHP, but Drupal has a very nice resume with the "right" names under it (AOL, Sony, MTV); plus it could save me building many of the CMS components from scratch. Rails might be another option, but I'm not too familiar with it (and as a Python/PHP programmer, Ruby's syntax drives me crazy). What would the S.O. community suggest for a project like this? I'm sure many of you have faced the same dilemma. What ended up working/not working for you? As I said before, my first choice would be Python, second would be PHP, third would be Rails. Thank you, Seth

Framework/CMS suggestions for enterprise website & intranet (I've got to convince the president its solid!)

python,frameworks,content-management-system,enterprise

"Enterprise" is a marketing term. It has pretty much zero technical meaning. If your boss wants to hear Enterprise, then he will, but this won't mean that a given system is suitable for your needs. Beware of lists of companies that use a given suite of software. "Ebay uses Plone", and "Ebay runs on Plone" are two very different statements. Mostly, if you're doing "Enterprise" CMS (for whatever that term is worth) you should expect to have a learning curve that will only just begin to flatten out by the end of a significant project. For your project, I'd suggest you try to figure out what you really need. If you think TurboGears (or any other framework) is a good fit, discuss some risk management strategies with your boss. Maybe a small pilot to start with. Adopting a new technology is risky. Many "large corporation" web sites are mission-critical these days. For what it's worth. I like Plone, but I've only ever used it for non-corporate stuff. I don't personally know of any "Enterprise" implementations. At work I use Tridion, and I know of numerous implementations at that level. (If you're looking for a choice that will let you work in Python, Tridion isn't a good fit.)

2008-10-27T22:19:00.000

Dear stack overflow community, I've been given the task of overhauling a couple of websites for a large corporation I'm working for, as well as developing an internal intranet site for content management and document storage within the organization. My "problem" is this: They want me to use a framework/set of languages/technologies that I can prove to them are "stable, enterprise-ready technologies with a proven track record." The spec's "big picture" really isn't too complicated: Implement an enterprise-class CMS for management of each division's web pages that deal mostly with product information and documentation (i.e. a simpler version of www.linksys.com). As an open-source programmer, I'd like to use Python with TurboGears and build it from scratch, but I can't really find a way to prove to the president that TurboGears has a huge enterprise track record. Zope seems to have a lot of enterprise usage, but it looks a bit bloated to me. Django could be an option, but doesn't seem as flexible as TurboGears. I'd rather not use PHP, but Drupal has a very nice resume with the "right" names under it (AOL, Sony, MTV); plus it could save me building many of the CMS components from scratch. Rails might be another option, but I'm not too familiar with it (and as a Python/PHP programmer, Ruby's syntax drives me crazy). What would the S.O. community suggest for a project like this? I'm sure many of you have faced the same dilemma. What ended up working/not working for you? As I said before, my first choice would be Python, second would be PHP, third would be Rails. Thank you, Seth

Running Django with FastCGI or with mod_python

python,django,apache,fastcgi

I'm using it with nginx. not sure if it's really faster, but certainly less RAM/CPU load. Also it's easier to run several Django processes and have nginx map each URL prefix to a different socket. still not taking full advantage of nginx's memcached module, but first tests show huge speed advantage.

2008-10-28T23:16:00.000

which would you recommend? which is faster, reliable? apache mod_python or nginx/lighttpd FastCGI?

Running Django with FastCGI or with mod_python

python,django,apache,fastcgi

There's also mod_wsgi, it seems to be faster than mod_python and the daemon mode operates similar to FastCGI

2008-10-28T23:16:00.000

which would you recommend? which is faster, reliable? apache mod_python or nginx/lighttpd FastCGI?

Running Django with FastCGI or with mod_python

python,django,apache,fastcgi

Personally I've had it working with FastCGI for some time now (6 months or so) and the response times 'seem' quicker when loading a page that way vs mod___python. The critical reason for me though is that I couldn't see an obvious way to do multiple sites from the same apache / mod_python install whereas FastCGI was a relative no-brainer. I've not conducted any particularly thorough experiments though :-) [Edit] Speaking from experience though, setting up FastCGI can be a bit of a pain the first time around. I keep meaning to write a guide..!

2008-10-28T23:16:00.000

which would you recommend? which is faster, reliable? apache mod_python or nginx/lighttpd FastCGI?

Running Django with FastCGI or with mod_python

python,django,apache,fastcgi

Nginx with mod_wsgi

2008-10-28T23:16:00.000

which would you recommend? which is faster, reliable? apache mod_python or nginx/lighttpd FastCGI?

Running Django with FastCGI or with mod_python

python,django,apache,fastcgi

I've done both, and Apache/mod_python tended to be easier to work with and more stable. But these days I've jumped over to Apache/mod_wsgi, which is everything I've ever wanted and more: Easy management of daemon processes. As a result, much better process isolation (running multiple sites in the same Apache config with mod_python almost always ends in trouble -- environment variables and C extensions leak across sites when you do that). Easy code reloads (set it up right and you can just touch the .wsgi file to reload instead of restarting Apache). More predictable resource usage. With mod_python, a given Apache child process' memory use can jump around a lot. With mod_wsgi it's pretty stable: once everything's loaded, you know that's how much memory it'll use.

2008-10-28T23:16:00.000

which would you recommend? which is faster, reliable? apache mod_python or nginx/lighttpd FastCGI?

Running Django with FastCGI or with mod_python

python,django,apache,fastcgi

lighttpd with FastCGI will be nominally faster, but really the time it takes to run your python code and any database hits it does is going to absolutely dwarf any performance benefit you get between web servers. mod_python and apache will give you a bit more flexibility feature-wise if you want to write code outside of django that does stuff like digest auth, or any fancy HTTP header getting/setting. Perhaps you want to use other builtin features of apache such as mod_rewrite. If memory is a concern, staying away form apache/mod_python will help a lot. Apache tends to use a lot of RAM, and the mod_python code that glues into all of the apache functionality occupies a lot of memory-space as well. Not to mention the multiprocess nature of apache tends to eat up more RAM, as each process grows to the size of it's most intensive request.

2008-10-28T23:16:00.000

which would you recommend? which is faster, reliable? apache mod_python or nginx/lighttpd FastCGI?

How to override HTTP request verb in GAE

python,google-app-engine,rest,metaclass

Calling the handler from initialize isn't the right way anyway - if you do that, the webapp will then call the original handler as well. Instead, you have a couple of options: You can subclass webapp.WSGIApplication and override call to select the method based on _method when it exists. You can check for the existence of _method in initialize, and if it exists, modify the request object's 'REQUEST_METHOD' environment variable accordingly. That will cause the WSGIApplication class to execute the method you choose. Either way, take a look at google/appengine/ext/webapp/init.py in the SDK so you can see how it works.

2008-10-31T22:37:00.000

In the context of a Google App Engine Webapp framework application: I want to changed the request verb of a request in the case a parameter _method is provided, for example if a POST request comes in with a parameter _method=PUT, I need to change the request to call the put method of the handler. This is to cope with the way prototype.js works with verbs like PUT and DELETE(workaround for IE). Here is my first attempt: class MyRequestHandler(webapp.RequestHandler): def initialize(self, request, response): m = request.get('_method') if m: request.method = m.upper() webapp.RequestHandler.initialize(self, request, response) The problem is, for some reason whenever the redirect is done, the self.request.params are emptied by the time the handling method(put or delete) is called, even though they were populated when initialize was called. Anyone have a clue why this is? As a workaround I thought I could clone the params at initialize() time, but .copy() did not work, and I haven't found a way to do that either. Update: I received a very helpful response from Arachnid. The solution I ended up with uses a metaclass. It is found below.

How to override HTTP request verb in GAE

python,google-app-engine,rest,metaclass

Thats Arachnid for your response. Pointing me to the source of the framework was really helpful. Last I looked the source wasn't there(there was only .pyc), maybe it changed with the new version of the SDK. For my situation I think overriding WSGIApplication would have been the right thing to do. However, I chose to use a metaclass instead, because it didn't require me to cargo-cult(copy) a bunch of the framework code into my code and then modifying it. This is my solution: class RequestHandlerMetaclass(type): def __init__(cls, name, bases, dct): super(RequestHandlerMetaclass, cls).__init__(name, bases, dct) org_post = getattr(cls, 'post') def post(self, *params, **kws): verb = self.request.get('_method') if verb: verb = verb.upper() if verb == 'DELETE': self.delete(*params, **kws) elif verb == 'PUT': self.put(*params, **kws) else: org_post(self, *params, **kws) setattr(cls, 'post', post) class MyRequestHandler(webapp.RequestHandler): __metaclass__ = RequestHandlerMetaclass

2008-10-31T22:37:00.000

In the context of a Google App Engine Webapp framework application: I want to changed the request verb of a request in the case a parameter _method is provided, for example if a POST request comes in with a parameter _method=PUT, I need to change the request to call the put method of the handler. This is to cope with the way prototype.js works with verbs like PUT and DELETE(workaround for IE). Here is my first attempt: class MyRequestHandler(webapp.RequestHandler): def initialize(self, request, response): m = request.get('_method') if m: request.method = m.upper() webapp.RequestHandler.initialize(self, request, response) The problem is, for some reason whenever the redirect is done, the self.request.params are emptied by the time the handling method(put or delete) is called, even though they were populated when initialize was called. Anyone have a clue why this is? As a workaround I thought I could clone the params at initialize() time, but .copy() did not work, and I haven't found a way to do that either. Update: I received a very helpful response from Arachnid. The solution I ended up with uses a metaclass. It is found below.

Can I Use Python to Make a Delete Button in a 'web page'

python,web-applications,browser

You would have to write the web page in Python. There are many Python web frameworks out there (e.g. Django) that are easy to work with. You could convert your entire scripting framework to a web application that has a worker thread going and crawling through html pages, saving them to a particular location, indexing them for you to see and providing a delete button that calls the system's delete function on the particular file.

2008-11-01T19:52:00.000

I have written a script that goes through a bunch of files and snips out a portion of the files for further processing. The script creates a new directory and creates new files for each snip that is taken out. I have to now evaluate each of the files that were created to see if it is what I needed. The script also creates an html index file with links to each of the snips. So I can click the hyperlink to see the file, make a note in a spreadsheet to indicate if the file is correct or not and then use the back button in the browser to take me back to the index list. I was sitting here wondering if I could somehow create a delete button in the browser next to the hyperlink. My thought is I would click the hyperlink, make a judgment about the file and if it is not one I want to keep then when I get back to the main page I just press the delete button and it is gone from the directory. Does anyone have any idea if this is possible. I am writing this in python but clearly the issue is is there a way to create an htm file with a delete button-I would just use Python to write the commands for the deletion button.

Can I Use Python to Make a Delete Button in a 'web page'

python,web-applications,browser

You could make this even simpler by making it all happen in one main page. Instead of having a list of hyperlinks, just have the main page have one frame that loads one of the autocreated pages in it. Put a couple of buttons at the bottom - a "Keep this page" and a "Delete this page." When you click either button, the main page refreshes, this time with the next autocreated page in the frame. You could make this as a cgi script in your favorite scripting language. You can't just do this in html because an html page only does stuff client-side, and you can only delete files server-side. You will probably need as cgi args the page to show in the frame, and the last page you viewed if the button click was a "delete".

2008-11-01T19:52:00.000

I have written a script that goes through a bunch of files and snips out a portion of the files for further processing. The script creates a new directory and creates new files for each snip that is taken out. I have to now evaluate each of the files that were created to see if it is what I needed. The script also creates an html index file with links to each of the snips. So I can click the hyperlink to see the file, make a note in a spreadsheet to indicate if the file is correct or not and then use the back button in the browser to take me back to the index list. I was sitting here wondering if I could somehow create a delete button in the browser next to the hyperlink. My thought is I would click the hyperlink, make a judgment about the file and if it is not one I want to keep then when I get back to the main page I just press the delete button and it is gone from the directory. Does anyone have any idea if this is possible. I am writing this in python but clearly the issue is is there a way to create an htm file with a delete button-I would just use Python to write the commands for the deletion button.