<commit_before>---
layout: post
title:  "Episode 029: <NAME>"
date:   2017-11-20
excerpt: "<NAME>, director of open education at SPARC, talks about her work promoting the use of open educational resources."
episode: true
tag:
- digital textbooks
- open educational resources
- open education
comments: true
---

Open Access Week was October 23-29 of this year. It’s a week promoting open access as the default in scholarship and research. The Vanderbilt Libraries hosted a number of events for Open Access Week, and one of the speakers they brought in was <NAME>, director of open education at SPARC, the Scholarly Publishing and Academic Resources Coalition. <NAME>, director of liaison and instruction services at the Vanderbilt Library and a member of the Leading Lines team, sat down with Nicole while she was on campus to talk about Nicole’s work promoting the use of open educational resources in higher education.

<ul>
<li><a href="http://sparcopen.org/people/nicole-allen/"><NAME>’s SPARC profile</a></li>
<li><a href="http://twitter.com/txtbks">@txtbks</a>, <NAME>'s Twitter account</li>
<li><a href="http://sparopen.org">SPARC</a></li>
<li><a href="http://openstax.org">OpenStax</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.opencon2017.org">OpenCon</a></li>
</ul><commit_msg>Added transcript for Episode 29<commit_after>---
layout: post
title:  "Episode 029: <NAME>"
date:   2017-11-20
excerpt: "<NAME>, director of open education at SPARC, talks about her work promoting the use of open educational resources."
episode: true
tag:
- digital textbooks
- open educational resources
- open education
comments: true
---

Open Access Week was October 23-29 of this year. It’s a week promoting open access as the default in scholarship and research. The Vanderbilt Libraries hosted a number of events for Open Access Week, and one of the speakers they brought in was <NAME>, director of open education at SPARC, the Scholarly Publishing and Academic Resources Coalition. <NAME>, director of liaison and instruction services at the Vanderbilt Library and a member of the Leading Lines team, sat down with Nicole while she was on campus to talk about Nicole’s work promoting the use of open educational resources in higher education.

<ul>
<li><a href="http://sparcopen.org/people/nicole-allen/"><NAME>’s SPARC profile</a></li>
<li><a href="http://twitter.com/txtbks">@txtbks</a>, <NAME>'s Twitter account</li>
<li><a href="http://sparopen.org">SPARC</a></li>
<li><a href="http://openstax.org">OpenStax</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.opencon2017.org">OpenCon</a></li>
</ul>

## Episode 29: Nicole Allen

\[music\]

**<NAME>**:  Welcome to \"Leading Lines,\" a podcast from
Vanderbilt University. I\'m your host <NAME>, the director of the
Vanderbilt Center for Teaching.

In this podcast, we explore creative, intentional and effective uses of
technology to enhance student learning, uses that we hope point the way
to the future of educational technology in college and university
settings.

Open Access Week was October 23 through 29 of this year. It\'s a week
promoting open access as the default in scholarship and research.

The Vanderbilt libraries hosted a number of events for Open Access Week.
One of the speakers they brought in was <NAME>, Director of Open
Education at SPARC, the Scholarly Publishing and Academic Resources
Coalition.

<NAME>, Director of Liaison and Instructional Services at the
Vanderbilt Library, and a member of the Leading Lines team sat down with
Nicole while she was on campus to talk about Nicole\'s work promoting
the use of open educational resources in higher education.

As a mathematician, I appreciate a good definition, so I was happy to
hear Nicole start by defining what she means by open. She goes on to
make the case for open education and its benefits to students, faculty,
and institutions.

\[background music\]

**<NAME>**:  Welcome. We\'re so excited to have you on the
Leading Lines podcast.

**<NAME>**:  Thanks so much for having me. It\'s great to be here
in Nashville.

**Melissa**:  This might be a good chance to learn a little bit more
about what SPARC is. What\'s your role? How did you come to be at SPARC?
Could you talk a little bit about that?

**Nicole**:  SPARC is an international alliance of Academic and Research
Libraries, and our mission is to make open the default in research and
education. We\'ve seen a transformation as the Internet and technology
have become regular parts of our everyday lives.

We can access all kinds of advantages through technology, whether it\'s
shopping, communication, or even just transportation. In research and
education, we haven\'t fully taken advantage of all of those benefits.
We\'re focused on changing policies and practices and enabling
universities to move in the direction where we can really actualize that
potential.

**Melissa**:  Could you talk a little bit more about what you mean by
open? I think that\'s a concept that not a lot of people are familiar
with, especially in terms of research and academia.

**Nicole**:  Open means something very specific. It means free access
without barriers and the right to fully use resources in the digital
environment.

When we are talking about research, it means the free immediate online
availability of scholarly research articles with the right to fully use
those articles in the digital environment and also to be able to access
and use the data the underlie that research.

Our universities are conducting research on a wide range of topics and a
lot of times that research ends up getting published in journals that
aren\'t available to other scholars because their libraries can\'t get
afford access to subscriptions and it\'s especially a challenge when
that research is funded by taxpayers in the first place.

It comes up a lot with medical research, our government funds a huge
amount of medical research but not a lot of that is available in a
timely manner.

**Melissa**:  With your role at SPARC, can you talk a little bit about
what you do there, are you interfacing with a certain community or
population?

**Nicole**:  Yeah, my work at SPARC focuses on openness in the context
of education, making sure that when faculty members and other teachers
are using educational resources in the classroom and engaging in
educational practices, that they can harness the power of openness to
help improve teaching and learning.

When we are talking about resources, we are talking about textbooks but
also other digital learning resources that are becoming more prevalent
in classrooms.

**Melissa**:  I want to get back to that other in just a second but
could we talk about your experience working with open textbooks, what is
that mean? Is there a movement afoot?

We\'ve had some conversations here at Vanderbilt. There are a couple of
students and our graduate student association that have been doing some
projects on investigating open textbooks.

I\'m wondering if you could talk a little bit about what does that mean
and what your work is in that area.

**Nicole**:  The cost of textbooks is something that just about every
student these days and every parent is familiar with.

\[laughter\]

**Nicole**:  Textbook prices have risen over 80 percent in the last
decade. In fact, they have more than doubled since I started college and
I thought textbooks were expensive. I didn\'t buy some of my books
\[laughs\] because they were too much and unfortunately in many
campuses, this is having a really negative impact on student learning
because they are not buying their required books.

One study found that two out of every three students now says that they
have skipped buying one of their books, because the cost is too high.

**Melissa**:  That\'s terrible. \[laughs\]

**Nicole**:  Yeah, it\'s just an example of how the way things have
always been done, just isn\'t working in today\'s world with these
rapidly rising prices for knowledge that is pretty well established. For
example, an Intro Calculus textbook often costs over \$200 and that just
doesn\'t make sense.

Open educational resources are focused on solving that challenge
specifically starting with textbooks. Looking at publishing textbooks
that can be free, and published with the permissions to fully use them
in the digital environment. That\'s what makes open better. Students can
get access to the resource in any format they want.

Open textbooks are distributed free digitally as a PDF or HTML. They can
be downloaded to different devices. They can also be printed and sold in
the bookstore just like any other textbook.

There\'s one project out there called OpenStax. It\'s based out of Rice
University in Houston, that has published open textbooks for most of the
largest intro courses.

It\'s a really exciting opportunity not just to reduce costs in those
courses where the costs tend to be highest, but also to create an
infrastructure where faculty can customize the resource to better fit
their class. How many times have you been in a class where a professor
has assigned chapters 1, 5, 6, 13 out of a 200‑page book or 2,000‑page
book?

You never finished the book. With the open aspect of these resources,
you as a professor actually have permission to tailor the resources to
the class you\'re teaching rather than trying to fit the class into the
textbook you\'re teaching from.

**Melissa**:  That\'s a really interesting point. I\'ve seen some of the
criticisms around Open Education Resources, specifically looking at
things like the idea that the customization isn\'t there. That it\'s so
general that you have to just pick and choose what\'s already been
created. Can you talk a little bit about some of those\...?

I don\'t know if criticism is the right word necessarily but maybe some
of the concerns that faculty might have about OERs and how do they fit
into this world of very highly and specialized curriculum.

**Nicole**:  It\'s funny to hear you say that. Actually, one of the
criticisms of traditional in publish material is that they tend to be
built to the lowest common denominator.

**Melissa**:  There you go.

**Nicole**:  \[laughs\] Education isn\'t one size fits all, whether
you\'re at a community college or a prestigious institution like
Vanderbilt.

It\'s important for educators to be able to customize their materials to
fit what they\'re teaching and put their own particular spin on the
course. With traditional materials, you\'re locked into whatever is
there. Even if the publisher allows you to make some customization,
those aren\'t your customizations.

With open resources, you can actually help shape a resource that can
evolve over time that your students can keep forever, and that you as an
expert in the field and as an instructor can make as a contribution to
the field that you\'re teaching in.

**Melissa**:  That\'s a really interesting piece of it. I think the
focus on using OERs often fits in that realm of teaching and learning.

Do you have a lot of experience or have you talked with the faculty
about creating OERs as a research product? I know that there are some
universities that are starting to maybe even look at that as an option
for 10‑year outputs. Do you have any thoughts on that?

**Nicole**:  Yes. A couple of things, one example that I love to talk
about is Carnegie Mellon University. Their Open Learning Initiatives has
developed a set of fully online courses where all of the content isn\'t
inclusive, and they use those courses.

All of the students all over the world who take them freely to generate
a huge amount of data that feeds cognitive science research at the
university.

Also, allows the project to improve the resources over time, because if
you have thousands of students going to the course, you can collect a
lot of really valuable data about what is effective, what isn\'t and
then draw broader conclusions about how questions can be structured in
instructional psychology that can actually inform better the field of
teaching and learning field of scholarship.

**Melissa**:  I love that and I love that there is that\...There is a
research scholarly aspect of creating these courses and pulling the data
to inform learning sciences. Also, it sounds like they are still
focusing on the learning experience for students. They\'re not letting
that piece go.

That would be another question that I think if I was faculty member
wanting to use an OER or maybe an open textbook, something like that, is
thinking about how it might impact student learning and what the student
perspective might be. Have you talked with students about their
engagement or preferences with open resources?

**Nicole**:  Yes. There is a growing body of peer‑reviewed research that
looks at student perceptions and student outcomes regarding open
educational resources.

So far, it\'s found across the board that students tend to do as well or
better when they use open educational resources and appreciate the
features of flexibility. You\'re getting access to the content in a
variety of different formats. Right now, it\'s traditional resources.
You have to choose the print or digital. It\'s not both.

The customization aspect of it for the class, I\'ve heard it compared to
the difference between a home‑cooked meal and a TV dinner. Which
one\'s\...Students know the difference\...

\[laughter\]

**Melissa**:  I like it.

**Nicole**:  \...and really benefit from it.

The open environment just creates so many opportunities for innovation
in teaching and learning. One example that comes to mind is Professor
<NAME> at Brigham Young University.

He was teaching upper‑level graduate course on project management for
instructional designers in their school of education and there is no
such textbook. What he ended up doing is taking an open textbook in
general project management and actually working with the students to
turn it into a textbook for project management, for instructional
design.

**Melissa**:  They\'re really able to select the resources and content
that they know will help them in that course. I love it. That\'s a great
Idea.

**Nicole**:  They\'re learning the subject by doing and creating a
resource that can inform future generations of that course. In fact, the
future classes look back on the work that their peers did originally and
critique it, improve it and add to it.

One of the exciting things is that ‑‑ these are grad students, they work
in the publish ‑‑ they get to add their names as a co‑contributor to a
published work.

**Melissa**:  That\'s fantastic.

**Nicole**:  It\'s just a really cool illustration of what is possible
in the open environment. Not every professor wants to teach that way but
that\'s just one small example of the kinds of things you can do with
open pedagogy.

**Melissa**:  I love that. It has such a participatory feeling and
culture that moves beyond just work on this project that doesn\'t have a
direct impact with what you\'re doing and where you\'re going. That\'s a
fantastic example.

What about the faculty members that maybe are a little bit more
cautious. They haven\'t used open educational resources before. They\'re
not sure how to get started. Do you have advice for\...even where to
find example or how you might go about starting to customize for your
own courses?

**Nicole**:  Yes. I should note that this varies a lot by discipline.
The example I just gave, it\'s not going to look like that in the
sciences, that there are other exciting ways to structure courses in
ways that engage open pedagogy. For example, structuring a class around
solving one of the global grand challenges.

To answer the question about faculty who are getting started with open
educational resources, the great thing is that you don\'t have to take
advantage of all of the open aspects of it. There are plenty of open
textbooks and other resources out there that you can use literally off
the shelf.

The project OpenStax that I mentioned earlier is just a good example of
that kind of textbook. They make it really easy to customize the
textbook in their online platform. They actually work with commercial
partners that offer a set of add‑on items.

One of the things especially in introductory courses that\'s become
increasingly common is homework software or tutoring programs that add
value to the text for students and teachers. By offering those
partnerships, a professor can use an open textbook pretty much just like
a traditional textbook, and that\'s a great place to start.

I should also mention that there are other ways to move toward openness
and take smaller stuff. For example, working with your library to make
sure that if you\'re assigning a course pack or readings that you\'re
not duplicating resources that are already available in the library.

**Melissa**:  I should probably just put it on the record that I gave
him a cool thumbs up when she mentioned working with the library.
\[laughs\]

**Nicole**:  I should also mention that I was not coached for this.

\[laughter\]

**Melissa**:  For disclosure.

**Nicole**:  It\'s true. You\'ll find examples where students are
picking up a course pack at the bookstore that contains articles that
the library has already paid for. They\'re actually paying twice for the
articles in there.

It\'s a small step toward openness but one that can make a really big
difference for students. Likewise, just looking across the resources
that are being assigned in the course to identify once that there are
open alternatives for.

This is a spectrum and it\'s an evolving movement and no one is saying
that there is the perfect resource out there that\'s open. Professors
should be using the resources that help their students learn fast but as
students are starting to struggle to afford the materials that they\'re
supposed to have and don\'t end up having those resources\...

Moving in the direction of models that help ensure students get access
to their materials in a sustainable and permanent way is really
important.

**Melissa**:  Remembering that if the perfect thing isn\'t out there,
you can always create it. That\'s great.

I also was hoping that you could talk a little bit about the work that
you\'ve done with OpenCon. I\'m really interested in that just from my
library perspective but I think it\'s a really good example of
supporting open research. Do you mind talking a bit about that?

**Nicole**:  I understand that there is an OpenCon satellite event
happening in Nashville this week hosted by Vanderbilt, which is very
exciting. The idea of OpenCon, it\'s the conference and community for
students and early career academic professionals on open access, open
education, and open data.

My work with OpenCon, I\'m one of the team of people who work to
organize the meeting. The idea behind it is that students and the next
generation of leaders understand openness in a really organic way.

Open is the way that the Internet and the technology‑enabled world
should work. It\'s the state of nature, and then there are all of these
structures that make it harder.

What can we do as the people who are going to inherit this world as the
tenured professors of 40 years from now and the university librarians
and the policy makers? What can we do to help make sure that the world
that we inherit is open and takes advantage of all of these pathways?

I personally started out as an open advocate myself, as an undergraduate
student frustrated with the cost of textbooks. I was the kid who was not
buying my textbooks and trying to get by using Wikipedia instead.

I just didn\'t understand. I went to a private liberal arts college. I
didn\'t understand why this 21st century education that cost a whole
bunch of money, why the materials I was using are these often
out‑of‑date, bound, really expensive resources when there\'s a wealth of
information available on the Web.

Of course, that\'s a student\'s perspective, not necessarily a statement
on pedagogy, but that\'s how I viewed the world.

**Melissa**:  I think that has implications for the idea of student as
advocate that they can really take control of their own learning
experience if they know of resources that are out there.

If they\'re going to OpenCons and they\'re a familiar with all different
open pedagogy techniques or resources, take that to your faculty
members. Let them know that this stuff is out there and that you don\'t
want to have to spend hundreds of dollars on a single textbook.

\[laughter\]

**Nicole**:  It\'s true although different students are in different
places. There\'s a study after study that still shows that most students
prefer to read in print despite the fact that millennials are using
technology in their everyday lives at least in the developed world.

Digital literacy isn\'t always there. There\'s important work to be done
there, and the concept of building leadership amongst the next
generation is really, really important. That\'s what OpenCon seeks to
do.

It\'s an annual conference that we organize with people from all around
the world. We run an application process and provide scholarships to
people, because students and young leaders often don\'t have access to
funding of their own.

Last year, for example, we held the meeting in Washington, DC and had
over 60 countries represented.

**Melissa**:  Wow, that\'s fantastic.

**Nicole**:  People from Bangladesh, Nigeria and Argentina are just
doing amazing work toward openness in their community ‑‑ people who work
for prime ministers, or who are researchers, or who are building
education programs or even pop‑up Internet cafÈs in sub‑Saharan Africa.

When you get a group of people like that together, it\'s just almost
magical. The projects that come out it are just incredibly exciting.

**Melissa**:  Yeah, that\'s fantastic. To have students and future
educational leaders there altogether, to be able to see that this is not
just an issue or a movement in the United States, but it\'s progress
really. That\'s fantastic.

**Nicole**:  It plays out differently in different places, because open
means one thing in the United States. It means something different in
Nigeria in terms of how it\'s put into practice. The more that we can
exchange information about how different societies are moving toward
openness, the more we can support each other.

**Melissa**:  That\'s great. On that idea of supporting each other, are
there other suggestions or guidance that you have for anyone ‑‑ faculty,
students, librarians ‑‑ that are wanting to try to increase their use of
open education resources on their campus? Do you have some maybe first
steps that you would suggest?

**Nicole**:  I think it\'s important to look at it as a process. It\'s
going to be easier in some places than it is in others. When I look at
some of the most successful campuses that have open education
initiatives, it often starts with the library.

\[laughter\]

**Nicole**:  It\'s often a few faculty members who are the early
adopters and leaders who are in a position where they either have the
time or have access to a particular resource that\'s a good fit for
their course or actually invest their energy in producing a resource of
their own that they want to make sure gets out to the world, who help
move the campus along toward openness.

It\'s not all going to happen at once, and it\'s not always easy. There
are still a lot of questions that need to be figured out. For example,
there are a lot of technical questions about, \"I want to adopt an open
textbook. What software do I use, and how do I handle the copyright
questions around using public domain images and resources that you may
want to use under an exception of the copyright like their use?\"

There are still a lot of areas that need to develop. It\'s an arc toward
openness, and I\'d say that raising awareness is the first step.

Just having these conversations, whether it\'s a student sitting down
with the faculty member and talking with them about how textbook costs
are impacting them and encouraging their faculty members, of course,
respectfully to seek out open alternatives.

Librarians thinking about how you can work into the conversations. You
have a faculty every day. Openness, whether it\'s around research or
educational materials or data.

Faculty members just looking at the resources you\'re teaching with. Can
you make small changes that make the resources more accessible and
usable and affordable to students?

**Melissa**:  It\'s great advice. Thank you. I think it\'s good to
emphasize that it is a process, but that you can make small little
tweaks to your curriculum or to your teaching practices that will help
increase access. Everyone can do that, right? \[laughs\]

**Nicole**:  Yeah. A lot of people are already making things available
openly without even knowing it. \[laughs\]

**Melissa**:  Exactly. Just that building awareness of what we have on
campus already, the resources that are available. I\'ll put in a plug
for our amazing scholarly communications librarian, <NAME>.

She is very interested in this area, and I know that she\'s working to
build more resources from the libraries to be able to help that.
There\'s an Elizabeth on every campus and in every library. There
definitely are resources out there.

Nicole, this has been fascinating. Do you have anything else that you
want to add or any last words of wisdom or excitement for \[laughs\]
open access?

**Nicole**:  I think one last thing that I\'ll just mention is that I
know Vanderbilt is thinking about ways to expand its impact in the
world, and I think openness is a really exciting opportunity to do that.

There have been all sorts of studies to find when you publish articles
of open access that they get cited more. With educational resources,
you\'re going to reach so many more people than you would otherwise by
publishing those resources openly rather than a traditional publisher,
where only a couple thousand students are ever going to benefit from the
resource.

Openness isn\'t just about the benefits to the users. It\'s also about
the benefits to the creators. The more that we highlight that, and I
think from an institutional perspective, to be able to showcase the
amazing scholarship and teaching that\'s happening here to the entire
world is a really important opportunity.

As those conversations continue here, really think about how open fits
into your mission and it helps expand the impact that this institution
has in the world.

**Melissa**:  That\'s fantastic. Thank you. Before we wrap up, one last
question that we like to ask everyone on the Leading Lines podcast, do
you have a favorite non‑digital or analogue educational technology?

**Nicole**:  When we\'re talking about openness, open is a concept. It
doesn\'t apply to the final format that you get. It can be a printed
textbook. It can be a digital file. It can be an audio file.

We live in the digital age, but print is still a really important
educational technology. Technology has changed how we consume print. For
example, you can have a machine that literally prints out a textbook
right on campus. I think print is here to stay at least for the short
term.

It\'s important for us to think about how to make sure students have
access to that format.

**Melissa**:  I think that\'s a great answer, and like you said earlier,
there are a lot of students that still prefer having a print textbook.
They want to highlight. They want to make notes. Even if that means
having the ability to print out a digital textbook file or whatever that
looks like, that\'s such an important thing.

**Nicole**:  One thing that comes up a lot in educational policy
discussions is the digital divide. Not all students have equal access to
technology.

As we take advantage of all of the opportunities of technology, we need
to make sure that we\'re still making accommodations for those students
who aren\'t there yet, who don\'t have Internet access in their home and
don\'t have digital devices. Print is still a really important part of
that.

**Melissa**:  That\'s fantastic I think that\'s a really good cap to our
interview here, because it is important to remember the whole point of
this movement is to make educational materials accessible and available
to students. That might mean not necessarily digital.

**Nicole**:  Using the power of technology but not necessarily
delivering it digitally.

**Melissa**:  Love it. That\'s a great a catch line and I think a great
spot to end on. Thank you so much, Nicole. It was a real pleasure to
talk with you today.

\[background music\]

**Nicole**:  Thanks so much. It\'s been a great conversation.

**Derek**:  That was <NAME>, Director of Open Education at SPARC.
Thanks to <NAME> for interviewing Nicole and to the Vanderbilt
Libraries for hosting her. Check the show notes for more information on
Nicole\'s work at SPARC.

I used an open textbook in my statistics course a few years ago. It
wasn\'t the best textbook ever, but it was good enough for a pretty
standard interest test scores. My students definitely appreciated it
since they could download the PDF for free or pay \$10 for a paperback
copy via Amazon.

It was open source, too. I didn\'t have the time to remix it or write my
own chapters, but I could have if I had wanted to. I\'ve been wondering
why we don\'t see more adoption of open textbooks in higher ed.

As <NAME> points out, they have significant advantages for
students and faculty. I suspect the lack of adoption stems from the fact
that many instructors are really selective about the textbooks they
choose.

It\'s not that open textbooks don\'t have sufficient quality, many of
them are quite fantastic, but perhaps there\'s not enough variety for
instructors to find just the right open textbook that matches their
course.

I know I\'m really picky about the textbook I use when I teach linear
algebra for instance. I have about 20 linear algebra textbooks on my
shelf but there\'s just one or two that I would actually choose to use
in my class.

Perhaps the work of SPARC and OpenCon and other folks working in this
area will help with this over time and that we\'ll see more variety in
the types of open textbooks that are available for faculty and that in
turn might lead to more faculty adopting them.

If you have thoughts about open educational resources and what it would
take to see their use grow, let us know. You can leave a comment on our
website, leadinglinespod.com, or connect with us on Twitter where our
handle is @leadinglinespod, or and this is still new, email us a voice
memo at <EMAIL>.

We\'d love to hear from you.

Leading Lines is produced by the Center for Teaching, the Vanderbilt
Institute for Digital Learning, the Office of Scholarly Communications
and the Associate Provost for Digital Learning. This episode was edited
by <NAME>.

Look for new episodes the first and third Monday of each month. I\'m
your host, <NAME>. Thanks for listening.

\[music\]

Licensed: [Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International (CC-BY)](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/legalcode)
{'fraction_non_alphanumeric': 0.04885029747547837, 'fraction_numerical': 0.0025406013828589806, 'mean_word_length': 4.313738892686261, 'pattern_counts': {'":': 0, '<': 73, '<?xml version=': 0, '>': 73, 'https://': 1, 'lorem ipsum': 0, 'www.': 2, 'xml': 0}, 'pii_count': 0, 'substrings_counts': 0, 'word_list_counts': {'cursed_substrings.json': 6, 'profanity_word_list.json': 0, 'sexual_word_list.json': 0, 'zh_pornsignals.json': 0}}
{'dir': 'git-commits-cleaned', 'id': '3605988', 'n_tokens_mistral': 7877, 'n_tokens_neox': 7483, 'n_words': 5051}