Theres a lot of spam here from the antis, huh?

#17
by SpacehogSutra - opened

First ya'll went and harassed Daniel van Strien by telling him to off himself, now you all want to harass alpindale? Oy vey dudes.

They are being encouraged to come here by anti-AI groups and spam Huggingface without a full understanding of the policies of Bluesky nor Huggingface. Mob justice is stupid and so are the people jumping on this bandwagon.

Hey maybe these people have a valid concern because just because the data is public, it doesn't give you the right to use these peoples data. Maybe come at these with some more compassion than calling these peoples genuine concerns about the use of their data "Spam"

Heres "uninformed" CEO Clem Delangue , Machine Learning Librarian Daniel van Strien, and Principal Ethicist Giada Pistilli have saying it is a mistake to upload Bluesky dataset to Hugging Face.

Clem: https://bsky.app/profile/clem.hf.co/post/3lbvlyphqd22r
Daniel: https://bsky.app/profile/danielvanstrien.bsky.social/post/3lbvih4luvk23
Giada: https://bsky.app/profile/giada.bsky.social/post/3lbwfa6udf22c

For those in the EU, Solicitor Simon McGarr specializes in Data Privacy and Privacy Law in Ireland. He wrote a letter that people can copy and paste that to check if Hugging Face is following Article 15 of the GDPR. https://bsky.app/profile/tupped.bsky.social/post/3lbw3ev7gp22h

Heres "uninformed" CEO Clem Delangue , Machine Learning Librarian Daniel van Strien, and Principal Ethicist Giada Pistilli have saying it is a mistake to upload Bluesky dataset to Hugging Face.

Clem: https://bsky.app/profile/clem.hf.co/post/3lbvlyphqd22r
Daniel: https://bsky.app/profile/danielvanstrien.bsky.social/post/3lbvih4luvk23
Giada: https://bsky.app/profile/giada.bsky.social/post/3lbwfa6udf22c

For those in the EU, Solicitor Simon McGarr specializes in Data Privacy and Privacy Law in Ireland. He wrote a letter that people can copy and paste that to check if Hugging Face is following Article 15 of the GDPR. https://bsky.app/profile/tupped.bsky.social/post/3lbw3ev7gp22h

Who said anything about "uninformed"? What are you going on about?

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Hey maybe these people have a valid concern because just because the data is public, it doesn't give you the right to use these peoples data.

It 100% does. We don't follow eu laws and gdpr.

Reddit commenter vs actual people that work for hugging face....

So reddit commenter isn't an actual human?

If it will be removed on huggingface, people will reupload on us platform that follows the US law and disallow unlawful and unfair content removal.

Hey maybe these people have a valid concern because just because the data is public, it doesn't give you the right to use these peoples data.

It 100% does. We don't follow eu laws and gdpr.

Reddit commenter vs actual people that work for hugging face....

So reddit commenter isn't an actual human?

If it will be removed on huggingface, people will reupload on us platform that follows the US law and disallow unlawful and unfair content removal.

That's not how this works but good luck on your conquest for data you don't own or have the right to use!

Hey maybe these people have a valid concern because just because the data is public, it doesn't give you the right to use these peoples data.

It 100% does. We don't follow eu laws and gdpr.

Reddit commenter vs actual people that work for hugging face....

So reddit commenter isn't an actual human?

If it will be removed on huggingface, people will reupload on us platform that follows the US law and disallow unlawful and unfair content removal.

That's not how this works but good luck on your conquest for data you don't own or have the right to use!

At least you didn't call him "special" this time.

@SpacehogSutra @Evander @Ainonake Are you all confident enough in this stance to force HuggingFace to take it to court? I'd bet I'm more confident in mine.

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@maxfzz do you actually read anything that we write? I bet that no.

If huggingface operates in eu, than it will remove it, according to eu laws. Yes, we all know this, that's obvious, stop repeating and think please.

Then we will just reupload to company that doesn't operate in eu officially, that's it. We will follow US law because scraping web is 100% legal there.

@maxfzz do you actually read anything that we write? I bet that no.

If huggingface operates in eu, than it will remove it, according to eu laws. Yes, we all know this, that's obvious, stop repeating and think please.

Then we will just reapload to company that doesn't operate in eu officially, that's it.

I doubt you're reading anything I'm writing, but I'll make it abundantly clear: it doesn't matter that you or HuggingFace don't operate out of the EU. The EU has passed laws that protect the data of its citizens on an international level, and scraping their data without their consent is in violation of these laws. That's why reuploading the dataset elsewhere is also pretty foolish, you're just putting more legal trouble on innocent websites that'd rather host ethically sourced datasets in good-faith, instead of harboring data because you feel the need to make BlueskyShitpostLLM a reality.

@SpacehogSutra @Evander @Ainonake Are you all confident enough in this stance to force HuggingFace to take it to court? I'd bet I'm more confident in mine.

Are you really threatening people rn? Antis are wild.

Calling that a threat, you must be scared about whatever you're doing already

@SpacehogSutra @Evander @Ainonake Are you all confident enough in this stance to force HuggingFace to take it to court? I'd bet I'm more confident in mine.

Are you really threatening people rn? Antis are wild.

Calling that a threat, you must be scared about whatever you're doing already

@maxfzz do you actually read anything that we write? I bet that no.

If huggingface operates in eu, than it will remove it, according to eu laws. Yes, we all know this, that's obvious, stop repeating and think please.

Then we will just reapload to company that doesn't operate in eu officially, that's it.

I doubt you're reading anything I'm writing, but I'll make it abundantly clear: it doesn't matter that you or HuggingFace don't operate out of the EU. The EU has passed laws that protect the data of its citizens on an international level, and scraping their data without their consent is in violation of these laws. That's why reuploading the dataset elsewhere is also pretty foolish, you're just putting more legal trouble on innocent websites that'd rather host ethically sourced datasets in good-faith, instead of harboring data because you feel the need to make BlueskyShitpostLLM a reality.

This-is-disgusting-they-are-stealing-all-of-our-information-to-train-their-data-stealers-Please-comment-on-it-to-try-to-take-it-down-and-save-bluesky-r-BlueskySocial-11-27-2024_03_02_PM.png

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@maxfzz

it doesn't matter that you or HuggingFace don't operate out of the EU. The EU has passed laws that protect the data of its citizens on an international level, and scraping their data without their consent is in violation of these laws.

The world isn't spinning around EU. EU can't pass "international laws". There is no such thing as "international laws". Each country has its own laws and eu can go fuck itself. Eu can't magically push any bullshit and make other countries to comply, it will be ridiculous to think that it can.

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Hugging Face has an office in France. From Hugging Face's privacy page. https://huggingface.co/privacy

The main establishment in the European Union is Hugging Face, SAS, a French société par actions simplifiée à associé unique registered in the Paris Trade and Companies Register under the number 822 168 043, and whose headquarters are located on 9 rue des Colonnes, 75002 Paris, France. The designation of this main establishment in the European Union gives full authority to the French Data Protection Agency, la Commission Nationale de l'Informatique et des Libertés (CNIL) per the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR).

@maxfzz do you actually read anything that we write? I bet that no.

If huggingface operates in eu, than it will remove it, according to eu laws. Yes, we all know this, that's obvious, stop repeating and think please.

Then we will just reapload to company that doesn't operate in eu officially, that's it.

I doubt you're reading anything I'm writing, but I'll make it abundantly clear: it doesn't matter that you or HuggingFace don't operate out of the EU. The EU has passed laws that protect the data of its citizens on an international level, and scraping their data without their consent is in violation of these laws. That's why reuploading the dataset elsewhere is also pretty foolish, you're just putting more legal trouble on innocent websites that'd rather host ethically sourced datasets in good-faith, instead of harboring data because you feel the need to make BlueskyShitpostLLM a reality.

???

OK

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@wykhuh

Hugging Face has an office in France.

Yes, we know. Again, hf will probably comply and remove these datasets (if it's truly illegal in the eu, I can't say anything about that).

We'll just reupload to the company in the us that doesn't operate in the eu and doesn't have offices in the eu.

@wykhuh

Hugging Face has an office in France.

Yes, we know. Again, hf will probably comply and remove these datasets (if it's truly illegal in the eu, I can't say anything about that).

We'll just reupload to the company in the us that doesn't operate in the eu and doesn't have offices in the eu.

Agreed.

@Ainonake

Hey maybe these people have a valid concern because just because the data is public, it doesn't give you the right to use these peoples data.

It 100% does. We don't follow eu laws and gdpr.

Reddit commenter vs actual people that work for hugging face....

So reddit commenter isn't an actual human?

If it will be removed on huggingface, people will reupload on us platform that follows the US law and disallow unlawful and unfair content removal.

That would still violate GDPR for EU users.

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Hey maybe these people have a valid concern because just because the data is public, it doesn't give you the right to use these peoples data.

It 100% does. We don't follow eu laws and gdpr.

Reddit commenter vs actual people that work for hugging face....

So reddit commenter isn't an actual human?

If it will be removed on huggingface, people will reupload on us platform that follows the US law and disallow unlawful and unfair content removal.

if you are sharing EU or California resident data, you are under the jurisdiction of their respective data privacy laws. You clearly have no idea how these laws work and the danger you are putting yourself in by intentionally creating thousands of violations of these laws for no reason other than to "own the libs" or whatever. By the way, I work in AI. This is ridiculous behavior, and you should feel ashamed.

You could just anonymize the data by removing UID (and randomizing usernames, if any) to it makes that thing GDPR compliant. It's like a 10 line script.

You could just anonymize the data by removing UID (and randomizing usernames, if any) to it makes that thing GDPR compliant. It's like a 10 line script.

Not necessarily true. If any of the content of posts contains personal information, it's not GDPR compliant. Since theres 2 million posts, it's likely at least a few contain personal information (even a first name counts)

" (even a first name counts)"

No, it doesn't, especially in that context. A nickname wouldn't either, or even a family name alone (that last one might be a gray area depending on the uniqueness of the name). The info has to be personal and uniquely identifiable to count (that's a full name, address, bank number, any governmental number, IP, email address, those kinds of things). First names, by definition, aren't unique identifiers, quite the opposite.

" (even a first name counts)"

No, it doesn't, especially in that context. A nickname wouldn't either, or even a family name alone (that last one might be a gray area depending on the uniqueness of the name). The info has to be personal and uniquely identifiable to count (that's a full name, address, bank number, any governmental number, IP, email address, those kinds of things). First names, by definition, aren't unique identifiers, quite the opposite.

Incorrect. First names can often be unique enough to be identifying, especially when combined with other information in the data. The assumption for data privacy is to assume that any data that can be personally identifying, is personally identifying. I've worked at very large companies that had to comply with GDPR and this is how they evaluate the privacy compliance.

(I'll note I have no horse in this race, I find both extremes equally annoying and counter-productive to their own goals. It makes for entertaining internet drama, though)

I have done so too for small companies (including handling it first-hand). Every single company that has clients, or listings, or employees, has to deal with GDPR, so yeah, I'm sure you have worked at one, otherwise you wouldn't have worked anywhere :)

A first name, alone, is not applicable, it has very strict guidelines in that area. You'd need any other information that, once combined, lead to the identification of an individual by looking at the data being harvested, . There are also recent AI related exceptions, however they tend to protect private datasets, It's more complicated for public stuff. There's also article 6 exemptions to consider "Legitimate interests", a group may have a legitimate (including a commercial benefit) to process personal information without consent. That shit is overly complicated, and what works for a company is meaningless for another. It's no surprise that bigger companies are having an overly cautious approach.

In the case if this particular dataset, the point is moot anyway. It's not compliant, and the author has no intention of making it so.

I should add. That the "once combined" doesn't mean what you think it means. Example:

Anonymized Entry 20320: "Bob doesn't like tuna"
[millions of shit-posting entries]
Anonymized Entry 56465568: "I know a tuna hater called [bob's last name only]"

Doesn't count either. There's a reasonable expectation limit to the anonymisation of datasets (otherwise literally everything everywhere would be deletable), that part is also left to individual countries' expectations and legislation (on top of country specific exceptions). Point is, you're massively oversimplifying a very complex legal issue. Still moot here, but you know, I get peeved when people claim GDPR willy nilly.

And there's the reality of it. GDPR is meant to get a customer out of spam lists and companies they dealt with. That's its main goal, and where it's actually legally enforced. Here... Well, nothing is ever going to happen on a legal standpoint, because it's very shaky for all the reasons stated above. I mean HF might decide to delete it (and they probably should imo), but not because of legal repercussion, it'd be out of good will.

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