NCFishwrap has a new columnist! Prepared to be astounded.
Posted on 6 December 2010 by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf
NCFishwrap has a new weekly columnist.
No, it is not I. I haven't been invited. Would I accep…. no.. no… don't go there.
We have seen her before here, when she wrote a deeply conflicted piece begging for the affirmation of men in Rome even while pouring bile on them.
Remember Jamie Manson? She has the coveted MDiv degree fropom Yale, has been working for Presbyterians at Jan Hus Presbyterian Church in New York City, and has been a board member of the Women's Ordination Conference.
Jamie has some breathtaking insights for Archbishop Dolan, sure to bring us all up in our tracks! I predict that the Archbishop will immediately instruct the USCCB to support unnatural "marriage", the ordination of women, and forget about that whole abortion thing in Obamacare. Oh yes,… he'll sell the property of the Archdiocese too.
My emphases and comments.
To attract youth, bishops must admit vulnerabilities
by Jamie L Manson on Dec. 06, 2010
"It's not like we're in a crisis; it's not like all of a sudden we need some daring new initiatives," Archbishop Timothy Dolan of New York declared during his acceptance speech following his stunning election as president of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.
The archbishop was thanking God for the work of his soon-to-be predecessor, Cardinal Francis George of Chicago, [Get this…] whose strict opposition to health care reform ["strict"! Oooo…] – because it might expand financing for abortion — and gay marriage Dolan promised to uphold. [But is that true? Is Card. George against health care reform? The USCCB? I'm not. I don't think they are either. I think, however, that health care reform which provides taxpayer money for abortions is unacceptable. That is not the same thing as being against health care reform. But from the onset the writer is poisoning your view of Archbp. Dolan, bishops in general, with loaded words and untruths.]
But just days later Dolan gave an interview to The New York Times admitting his concern that only half of young Catholics marry in the church and that weekly Mass attendance has dropped to about 35 percent — down from its peak of 78 percent in the 1960s. [Still better than, say Holland, where they do some of the things that Jamie likes.]
He lamented that the throngs of people on Fifth Avenue are not waiting to get into New York's St. Patrick's Cathedral, but rather, the neighboring Abercrombie and Fitch store. [I have something to say about that, too.]
"Wow," Dolan sighed, "there's no line of people waiting to get into St. Patrick's Cathedral, and the treasure in there is of eternal value. What can I do to help our great people appreciate that tradition?" [Well… Your Excellency… how about doing something that young people are interested in? We can start with liturgy. First, go visit some parishes where the older form of Mass is celebrated and look at all the young families. Then extrapolate to the Cathedral's liturgical practices. Do something spectacular with the resources of the Cathedral liturgically.]
I wonder how often the archbishop and his fellow hierarchs [Again, note the word choice. They are not "bishops" or "shepherds" for her. She seems to not have a Catholic sense about the role of successors of the apostles. For her, this is a matter of "hierarchy". Keep in mind that in these women's ordination groups, there are power structures. They will eventually start excommunicating each other. I'll make popcorn.] stop to ask what it is about the tradition that makes it great. What aspects of it would speak to the hearts of young adults? [Legit questions. What will Jamie's answers be? Can you predict without looking at the next bit?]
Is it the continued shaming of gays and lesbians? Or is it the mandate to feed, clothe, shelter, and comfort the poor? [Yes, you got it. Let's be clear about a couple things. The Church does not shame homosexuals. Homosexuals shame themselves when they engage in immoral acts. The Church is as open and welcoming to homosexuals as to any other group of broken sinners (read=everyone). Also, the writer seems to think – and this is a common liberal tactic – that when things aren't going her way, that means that "hierarchs" are doing one thing instead of another. The fact is, we can do many things at the same time. It is possible to be consistent about the Church's teaching on the immorality of homosexual acts (which seems to be her deep concern) and also work for the poor. Look around in dioceses and see what the Catholic Church is doing for the poor, or in poor countries. No, this is just an empty husk of an argument.] Is it the legacy of fighting for a just wage and adequate health benefits for all laborers?
[CUE MUSIC…
Arise ye pris'ners of starvation
Arise ye wretched of the earth
For justice thunders condemnation
A better world's in birth!
No more tradition's chains shall bind us
Arise, ye slaves, no more in thrall;
The earth shall rise on new foundations
We have been naught we shall be all.]
Is it the fixation on contraception (which has driven more than one couple away from the Pre-Cana process)? Or is it the life-giving, mystical tradition of meditation and prayer? [HUH? But note the juxtapostion of contraception (much of which is really abortifacient) and "life-giving". But our writer is on a role now. She is heavily into call-and-response!]
Is it the rigid, unjustifiable exclusion of women from ordained leadership? [Remember: this is the NCR's position. This is why bishops should rethink their use of "Catholic" in their title. But now we get the fruits of her coveted Yale MDiv degree!] Or is it the sacramental tradition that says that all finite things in nature are capable of revealing transcendent, eternal meanings? [You see, that is supposed to convince you that women should be ordained. All finite things can "reveal… meanings", after all. But wait! There's more…]
Does the archbishop really not recognize that church attendance was at its peak when the institution made its greatest effort to engage with spiritual needs and moral dilemmas of the modern world? [?!? I think she means when the Spirit of Vatican II was at work. I'm not sure.] Does he really not see the failing relationship between young adults and Catholicism as a crisis? [And for the writer the fault must lie with Catholicism. And now we head into the ad hominem section, probably an easy exercise, since Dolan is, after, a man.]
In the photo accompanying his interview Dolan dons his full cassock, [As opposed to the more acceptable "partial cassock"?] seated in a well-appointed parlor [Liberals think their opponents should have only junk and live like dogs. This is only a technique of polemic, of course.] of his residence located on the poshest stretch of Madison Avenue. Mahogany [Ooooo!] doors highlight the backdrop and a priceless Persian rug [priceless?] lines the floor. Dolan seems to be comfortable surrounded by many of the same the luxuries sought by many of those frantically shopping in the street below. [This was Judas's argument too, wasn't it? Of course, if he lived like a sewer-rat, he would be accused of bringing down the image of the archbishop. He would be ridiculed for spending time begging for change for a sandwich instead of running the archdiocese, which is, after all, his job.]
For younger generations, image communicates everything. If they see a religious leader living a detached life [?!? "detached life"? Are we talking about the same Timothy Dolan here? Timothy Dolan Archbishop of New York? Detached? ROFL! ] on the elite East Side of Manhattan, where is the motivation for them to stop storing up treasures on Fifth Avenue and seek instead the treasures in Catholic doctrine?
[Behold them seated in their glory
The kings of mine and rail and soil!
What have you read in all their story,
But how they plundered toil?
Fruits of the workers' toil are buried
In strongholds of the idle few
In working for their restitution
The men will only claim their due.]
Young Catholics' knowledge of their faith may be waning, but their images of Jesus are likely clear and consistent. [I think Jamie might be living in a dream world. Do young people have an "image of Jesus"? I wonder.]
To them, Jesus was born in a stable and was probably poor for most of his adult life. [Or maybe He was a pretty good carpenter and made a good living, like Joseph before Him.] He fed the hungry and healed the sick. [It helps when you are GOD and can multiply loaves and cause miraculous catches. BTW… Peter probably cashed in on that miraculous catch. On the other hand, people with nothing don't feed the poor. You have to have something before you can give it.] He showed compassion to outcasts and asked us to love one another as God loves us. These are the ideals that young adults expect religious leaders to try to honor. [And… Catholic bishops… don't?… what]
[And if you thought this was silly before… ] On their way to Abercrombie, most young Catholics surely passed dozens of homeless men and women — many of them mentally ill or addicted — huddled on sidewalks or napping in the corner of subway cars. Were these young folks to have seen Dolan stopping to chat with a panhandler or hand out sandwiches to someone resting on the sidewalk, he might have done the nearly impossible: he might have captured the undivided attention of young, frenzied shoppers. He also would have embodied one of [get this…] the eternal treasures of the tradition.
[We toilers from all fields united
Join hand in hand with all who work;
The earth belongs to us, the workers,
No room here for the shirk.
How many on our flesh have fattened!
But if the norsome birds of prey
Shall vanish from the sky some morning
The blessed sunlight then will stay.]
But young people trust the images they see. If the institutional church [Not like her church. ] identifies itself regularly with being anti-gay, anti-woman, and anti-sex, how many young people will enter a cathedral expecting to have their questions and worries heard by a compassionate, humble minister? How many will feel genuinely welcome in the cathedral without the dread of feeling judged and shamed? [I can't help but wonder what lies behind that statement… for the writer.]
[Isn't this finished yet?] The archbishop is right. There is nothing of eternal value in any retail store. But without spiritual leadership that is willing to engage … [blahblahblah]
[Refrain:
'Tis the final conflict
Let each stand in his place
The International Union
Shall be the human race.]
Yes, folks. NCR has a new weekly columnist.
This entry was posted in Throwing a Nutty and tagged Archbp. Dolan, Jamie Manson, National Catholic Reporter. Bookmark the permalink.
Austrian MP tells it like he sees it. KABLAM!
REVIEW: Wyoming Catholic College Christmas Music CD
Mark01 says:
I wonder if all these people who feel judged and shamed by the Church have actually read any Church documents, or just articles written by authors like Jamie who tell them that the Church is judging and shaming them?
One of those TNCs says:
"Leave a comment" ?
Leave *A* comment?!? as in, "leave only ONE comment" ?!?
How about, "Provide your own sick sack; we've used up all of ours" ?
I can't believe any "Catholic" newspaper allows this sort of drivel. Aren't there ANY thoughtful, well-educated, faithful, real Catholics on that paper's board?
By the way, does anyone know if this newspaper is under the authority of any ordained minister, or is it privately owned? In other words, do they answer only to themselves?
And does she realize that she's arguing that the Church should not judge any actions at all? So a person can go and murder someone and they should not be made to feel bad about it by the Church? That degree must not be worth much if she can't even understand that this is what she is basically arguing for.
Massachusetts Catholic says:
If you're looking for music to go with Jamie Manson's column, how about The Who's "Won't Get Fooled Again"?
Louie Verrecchio says:
"Is it the rigid, unjustifiable exclusion of women from ordained leadership?"
This is rather telling, although no shocker. For the female ordination crowd "ordained" = "leadership;" i.e. it's not about a desire for configuration to Christ, sacrifice and service as is proper to priests, it's more about power, authority and influence as is proper to the C-level positions in any large corporation.
Who actually owns this rag? Doesn't Canon Law say something about no one can call an enterprise "Catholic" without the approval of a bishop, etc.?
Archromanist says:
It's a real pastoral failure not to excommunicate this woman. Her soul is in grave, grave danger, and she creates grave, grave scandal. Why won't a bishop do the right thing?
Okay! OKAY!
We know that the NCR is mostly awful. We know that.
Let's look at the content of the piece, look at arguments, etc., and get beyond the "those big poopy-heads" thing.
Supertradmum says:
Firstly, despite her degree, her lack of rational thinking and logic is appalling. Secondly, I work daily with the age group she attempts to describe. This generation is the most radicalized, relative, indifferent generation to date in our country. Most of the young people I work with despise all religions, Islam and Hindu included, and have no spiritual sense. Most of them have never gone to any church regularly and have no intention doing so. They, and their Gen X parents, who decided to let their kids decide on religion are not, are one reason I homeschooled.
Thirdly, these young people would not care if the Cardinal lived in a pent-house overlooking Times Square. They would think it is cool, as they are mostly either well-t0-do only children or one of two of two working parents, or so poor, they are wannabees. I have a brother of a drug addict in my class who owns a BMW and is on welfare. He got money from this brother, before that brother was put into jail for selling drugs. Wake up, little Susie. She does not have a clue.
Fourthly, if youth admire anyone, and most do not, it would be those who care about Them, as they go into Abercrombie and Fitch, one of the top companies for recognizing and pushing LGBT agendas and "rights" as well as sexy, trashy clothes. This generation of Millenials are more independent in their ideas then the columnist notes, and hate to be put into groups at all. But, if someone shows an interest in them personally, they do respond.
or,not are on the religion question…and I have just made the Archbishop a Cardinal.
Golatin5048 says:
As being a young Catholic myself her "insight" about youth is… eh… Not very true. Most youth don't even care because they are not even paying attention to father anyway. They need to preach the truth, don't be bullied by people who want there own agenda met because of there money when it is against the Church, father being there for youth things, meeting and talking to the youth. That is what youth need.
National catholic Fishwrap for sure. Every time I go near one I get sick…
Jack Hughes says:
ok lets take those last 3 accusations one at a time.
anti-gay – we're against being happy? after all that is the original meaning of the word.
anti-woman- ecuse me has she never heard of devotion to Our Lady? y'know the Immaculate one
anti-sex – admitedly if she was writing 16oo years ago she might have a point, some of the Church Fathers had really screwy ideas about sex (even within marriage) until St John of Consatinoble shut them up by saying that he who denigrates marriage denigrates Virginity. Today however she really has no excuse, she needs to read Theology of the Body.
And where can we find these "leaders" who fit the ideal picture she paints? Doesn't she know the way? Apparently we are to look to…herself, the very definition of the elite! But in places where "the hierarchs" do fit her criteria, the faith of young people is not exactly "strong", nor especially responsive toward the poor, nor even any of the favorite special interest groups she lists…So she singles out Archbishop Dolan who has been in NYC for all of, how many days is it? Whereas in some places where her favorites are entrenched and doing all of her favorite things, well, they are still putting money into cathedrals…and yet don't seem much into the tradition of the mystery of contemplation exactly either. Maybe someone will send her a snapshot of Archbishop Dolan in his apron at the soup kitchen recently, it's easily found I think on his blog.
Can't the National Catholic Reporter find an actual Catholic for a writer or have they all joined one or other Protestant denomination, biding their time in their Abercrombie until they can storm and loot the cathedral?
Did she even look at the parents? Don't they have the responsibility of taking there children to mass and sacraments etc? Although the priest/bishop's need to be examples and preach truth, they can do nothing unless there parents are also on board.
PatrickThornton says:
RE: St. Patrick's liturgical practices
This past Sunday the 10:15AM Mass was celebrated by His Excellency. The cathedral was absolutely jammed with thousands in the pews and several hundred packed like sardines down the side aisles and in the vestibule.
Mass was a "high" Mass with a deacon, three concelebrants, a number of servers, incense and beautiful music, including a chanted Kyrie in Greek, and the Gloria, Credo, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei all chanted in Latin. Communion was under one species and only distributed by priests and deacons. Fr. Robert Barron preached a very fine sermon, ending with: "Do one thing this Advent…go to Confession!
It would seem that the liturgy at St. Patrick's is quite on track with the hermeneutic of continuity.
contrarian says:
Ms. Manson writes about the need to incorporate young people into the fold, and her suggestions seem to be of the garden-variety, baby-boomer sort (if I can perhaps unfairly use 'baby-boomer' pejoratively). And it's here that I think one can give not just a conceptual counter argument, but an empirical one. After all, Father Z's point about young people flocking to faithful, 'conservative', and liturgical parishes isn't just anecdotal. What's true of parish life is doubly true of seminary numbers: vocations spring from these more traditionally minded parishes. Where there is liturgy and fidelity, there is vitality. Again, that's not just a motivating mantra, it's empirically true.
I ask this not snarkily, but with charitable curiosity: what does Ms. Manson make of this very real, documented trend?
PomeroyonthePalouse says:
"Young Catholics' knowledge of their faith may be waning, but their images of Jesus are likely clear and consistent. "
uhhhh.. I don't think she's ever seen some of those "images of Jesus" that the Crescat posts at her site.
kab63 says:
Like Supertradmum I wonder about Jamie's impression of the young. Some documentation would be nice. From what I see of the hiphop generation, they value bling on display. Poverty is not cool. I suspect Jamie has endowed the young with qualities she wishes them to have.
rakesvines says:
Re: "identifies itself regularly with being anti-gay, anti-woman, and anti-sex,…" are fallacious labels: anti-woman as not being pro-choice? anti-gay as not being "pro same-sex marriage", anti-sex as not being "pro-contraception"? There's a word for all that i.e. fidelity to the message of the Lord Jesus Christ. Thank God our faith community continues to keep the faith and not get into the fad of some ideas cooked up by an M. Div. from Yale. (I guess the next bubble is indeed in these ivy grad education.)
For the record, Abercrombie does not push the LGBT agenda: it pushes straight-up (alas, the nearly unavoidable pun) G agenda. The girls are only there to provide beard services.
Re this lady's article: the most disturbing thing is the enraptured comments in the NCR link. Can someone enlighten me as to the demographics of NCR readers? Are they all liberal or are they a cross section of Catholics and therefore I should be even more worried?
Abercrombie and Fitch gives lesbian couples same pensions as married and many of the ads are transgender models, or if you prefer, androgynous, on purpose.
It is true that St. Patrick's Cathedral is packed and it is also true that in NY there are many great Catholic organizations that appeal to young people, offer very concrete ways to serve those in need and discover the "mystery of contemplation", and surprise, surprise, these are often undertaken by young, professional (perhaps even Abercrombie wearing) women.
Why is it news that Archbishop Dolan is looking to bring people into church? This is what a good shepherd does. He cares not just for those who are already attending church but goes out to find the lost. And he does this without denigrating the Church or knocking the excellent "product" (in her estimation) already offered. That is in contrast to the "oh, we are ashamed to be catholic" crowd.
It is a great thing that Ms. Manson likes to write and has a blog. It will keep her and her followers occupied during the long wait for the great leap forward.
Here is what I posted to NCR's comments section; I have learned from experience that it takes roughly 48 hours to turn around comments (certain ones?) on their blog:
Okay. So, um, Archbishop DOES admit vulnerability in saying he wishes churches were more packed. Apparently the blogger wishes he were to profess embarrassment for the fact that the Church possesses the truth. At any rate, it's a great thing that Archbishop Dolan admits that he would like those not already attending church to COME IN. Obviously, he gets the "all are welcome thing" and it is a noble shepherd who looks out for the lost. I think you owe the Archbishop an apology for this severe distortion and manipulation of his words to serve what is your personal agenda.
Also, she seems to be leaning on Avery Dulles' Models of the Church and kind of knocking the Institutional model like a straw-man that it is – as presented in the book. Very predictable M.Div. from Yale and quite superficial too as the other models by themselves are inadequate to portray the ecclesial phenomenon in its substance and entirety.
Salvatore_Giuseppe says:
Check out her first column, from where she got the title for her weekly column:
http://ncronline.org/blogs/young-voices/grace-living-margins
with such great quotes as:
"For more than 15 years now, I've felt starved by the Roman Catholic authorities"
"Perhaps it was the insurmountable heights of the ivory tower's walls or the unshakable hope of feminist theology that clouded my judgment, but it wasn't until graduation that I realized that an openly lesbian, unapologetically liberal Catholic woman with a M.Div. had somewhat limited career possibilities."
"I'm still incorrigibly Catholic in my passionate insistence about the sacramental nature of every encounter we have with our poor and homeless guests."
really? its the "sacramental nature" or doing works of mercy that make you "incorrigibly Catholic"?
Tom in NY says:
"La lutte finale" etait ecrit recemment, en 1871. Depuis, la socialisme, un faux dieu, a tue millions. En 1789, et les annees 1790, "La Raison" a tue millions.
Mais le Dieu veritable nous liberait de nos luttes, et sauverait millions!
Salutations a tous.
Titus says:
Were these young folks to have seen Dolan stopping to chat with a panhandler or hand out sandwiches to someone resting on the sidewalk
I think this is perhaps the most interesting comment in the entire piece—the frothing nonsense is retread and boring, honestly. But this line is interesting. On the one hand, His Excellency would be doing a good work if he went out and rounded up the poor and fed them. On the other hand, how does Miss Manson know he doesn't? Again on the other hand, is Miss Manson advocating helping the poor because it's a divine mandate and a corporal work of mercy, or is she advocating being a show-off? It sounds suspiciously like she's advocating being a show-off.
We can go through history and find plenty of examples of holy prelates who essentially emptied their episcopal palaces for the benefit of the poor. But I've never heard a single story of a saintly bishop going out on the street corner and handing out goodies for the commercial classes to see. On the contrary, the most generous and pious men, when forced into positions of authority, have also tended to be the most intensely private.
I'm sure we can all think of ways that an urban pastor or bishop could go out into the streets and be visible in a simple, beneficial way—but there's no need to grandstand.
There are some good comments here. Nice to see what happens when we stick to the issues and arguments!
Tantum Ergo says:
"BTW… Peter probably cashed in on that miraculous catch."
I dunno, Father… Matt. 5:20 says Peter and Andrew "immediately left their nets and followed him."
(I always thought they left "immediately" because they didn't want to clean the fish.)
'Rites' for women, 'rights' for gays: Cardinal George's double standards is another one of her great columns. Obviously, her employers either like what she has to say, or are using her to stir up the proverbial Catholic pot. In a previous article, she wrote: Ironically, it was Gene Robinson — whose courageous assent to the bishop's seat in the Episcopal church first elicited the Anglican firestorm and threat of schism over the ordination of out gays and lesbians — who first showed me that the relationship between misogyny and homophobia runs deep. Several years ago I heard him offer a lecture at Union Theological Seminary in New York City. At one point in his talk, he addressed his sorrow at the lack of support that some gay men have for women in their own fight for fair and equal treatment in the church. He asked the audience, "When will we gay men realize that the reason the church hates us is because they hated women first? The hatred of gay men is rooted in the original hatred of women and the feminine."
Time for one of those hierarchy guys to ask her either to stand with the Church, or be asked to leave it. Her constant themes are the ordination of women and LGBT rights. Why she has been hired to do a weekly column should be challenged by the local ordinary.
dcs says:
There's something comical about a writer for a supposedly Catholic newspaper working for a Protestant ecclesial community named for Jan Hus.
TJerome says:
snore, yawn, same old, same old. Moving on.
Luke Whittaker says:
Jesus Rejoices in the Father's Will:
In that same hour he rejoiced in the Holy Spirit and said, "I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will.
Apparently they don't read the Book of Wisdom at Yale. Even a cursory reading of the first chapter would have been helpful to Jamie in choosing higher ground for her subject matter, "because Wisdom will not enter a malicious soul, nor dwell in a body enslaved to sin…For perverse thoughts separate men from God…a holy and disciplined spirit will flee from deceit, and will rise and depart from foolish thoughts, and will be ashamed at the approach of unrighteousness…Seek him with sincerity of heart" (Wisdom 1:1-5).
pseudomodo says:
NCR=Not Catholic Really
Larry R. says:
I believe the author's comment regarding Church attendance is one of the most incorrect and intentionally misleading in the piece. She tries to sell the radical vision of Vatican II in a positive light – the Church was wondeful, the parishes were filled, everyone was so filled with hope and happiness when the revolutionary 'spirit of Vatican II' was in the air and everything was changing. She supports this claim by stating that Church attendance has never been higher than it was during the timeframe of the 1960s. But this is categorically false. Church attendance worldwide began to fall in the 19th century, first slowly, and then much more rapidly after 1950. 1967 or 8 or whatever was not the peak of the Church's glory, in terms of attendance at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, it was right before the bottom fell out, and virtually every reputable Church scholar/leader/observer believes, almost to a man, with Pope Benedict that the radical changes coming from the period surrounding Vatican II were responsible for many leaving the Church.
There was no great clamor in the Church for a council, for changes to the Mass, or for much of anything else in the way of change at that time from the rank and file, at least. Trying to state that that brief, most egregious period of unjustifiable change was somehow a "peak" of love for and involvement in the Church is simply categorically false – it's a fantasy. I fear that this author's view of the Church and her severe dislike for many of its core dogmas has colored her view of history, as well.
lizfromFL says:
Wah wah wah….I am so tired of the "we should be helping the poor" response to anytime anyone actually gives a critique of modern society. 1. How does she know who is helping the poor and how much? Not everyone advertises these things, as Titus said in his comment. 2. Living in finery does not mean you are not helping the poor. Having been in very dire straits myself, I truly appreciate those with $ that could actually help me out. 3. Jesus said the poor will ALWAYS be among us. These crazy socialist/communist dreams will only result in that we all will be poor.
I am so tired of this kind of drivel. I won't even comment on her spiel on gays.
Well this openly unapologetic liberal lesbian should take a look at my parish. We have two priests whe preach the truths of the faith and offer mass properly. We have two well attended daily Masses with confessions after each one. Fr. heard confessions for an hour and half after the noon Mass today; I was in line, I know.
There are many families and young people at my parish. It is not a greying, dying liberal 'peace and justice', don't 'offend' anyone with the truth sort of place.
"But young people trust the images they see."
You bet. That's–again–why liturgical churches thrive.
Gather Us In churches scream lame. The young people say, "Lame."
Why? Because they trust the images that they see.
Ok, I'm done.
teomatteo says:
The author states that the knowledge of young catholics is weak but their iimage of him is
MikeM says:
She falls into the large number of liberal "Christians" who seem to have completely missed the point of the Gospel. I'm a sinner, and probably worse of one than a number of the homosexuals I know… and I am sincerely grateful to have a Church that points out just how bad I am. My (eternal) life depends upon my repentance. How can I be sorry if I don't even recognize that I sinned? When I walk into a church, I do go in "feeling judged and shamed?" Judged by God, and shamed by the Holy Spirit. The shame I feel for my sins isn't a curse from the "institutional church," it is one of the greatest gifts God gives me.
The constant attempts by those like this author to affirm everyone in their sinfulness is truly awful… it's spiritual murder!
On a perhaps less critical note: "all finite things in nature are capable of revealing transcendent, eternal meanings?" Perhaps… I haven't given much consideration to the word "all" there… but even assuming that much, should ALL finite things reveal the SAME transcendent meaning? If they all reveal the same meaning, don't they all quickly lose any meaning at all?
"Young Catholics' knowledge of their faith may be waning, but their images of Jesus are likely clear and consistent."
I'm befuddled by this. The young that she knows are not big into 'learn'n stuff about Jesus but they know a good image when they see it (She says image is everything to the young). Sounds like they prefer A&F (imagery) over worshipping the creator of the universe at Holy Mass. It seems that she is in agreement with our Bishop then. I also bet that the young get their images from a good Dan Brown novel as well…. now there is consistency
cblanch says:
Hey, how does she know Archbishop Dolan isn't handing out sandwiches and mixing it up with the homeless? What, does she follow him around 24/7? Maybe she thinks he doesn't do that because she's never seen the obligatory press release that would accompany such an action in the liberal world. You know, broadcasting good deeds.
Jayna says:
I'm wondering about this generic group of "young people" she keeps talking about. What young people? Where are they? Who are they? If she took the time to look around, she'd see that the elderly are the only ones agreeing with her ridiculous claims.
Was she the one that wrote that article on how we don't need priests anymore in "honor" of the start of the Year for Priests? Or am I confusing my feminist dissenters?
MikeM you are spot on. As I am constantly saying, it is literally spiritual assisted suicide. And we will be judged for our part in not trying to save someone with the Good News. "Turn away from sin and live the gospel".
Joe Magarac says:
Most of this woman's article is as ridiculous as Fr. Z and the other commenters here have said. But I agree with the notion that bishops seem a bit out of place in mansions. One of the best things that Bishop Zubik did here in Pittsburgh was to sell the bishop's residence and to move into the seminary to assist with vocations. It sent the right message. Bishop Sean in Boston did something similar, and it was also a good move. I don't expect either Bishop to live like a monk, and I know that diocesan clergy don't take a vow of poverty. But there is still a certain disconnect when one sees Catholic clergy living in appointed mansions.
BTW, Bishop Zubik explained when he sold the mansion here that it had been donated by a wealthy Catholic as an act of piety, and that it served an important function in the bygone days when Catholics were outcasts in this country – it sent a message that we'd arrived here. He then explained that the mansion didn't serve that function anymore. I think he was right on all counts.
So, Bishop Zubik just got rid of a valuable asset that was a gift? Why did it have to be sold? Go ahead and live somewhere else. Could the property not have been used?
I don't want an answer to this, by the way. This is a rabbit hole and it is closed.
Diane at Te Deum Laudamus says:
Since we are talking about the National Catholyc Fishwrap, I know someone here will know the answer to this because it was provided before….
I saw a decree or notification or something from the late 60's, I thought, which condemned the paper as a dissident rag. It was online. I saw it with me own eyes about 7-8 months ago, and can't find it to save my life.
Can someone provide that link again? I need it for something.
trentecoastal39 says:
Father Z,Can You Post a Podcazt of You Singing The Internationale Please? Please? and Pllllllease?
Just This Once?
Igne says:
At least the Internationale has a rousing tune to it. This whining load of nonsense could be best set to the theme music of 'Wait 'til your Father gets home'.
@Diane:
I believe this is what you are looking for.
David Homoney says:
This comment blew my mind:
An excellent article!
Who says the church's position is correct? We all would like to think "our" position is the correct one. The church need to rethink theirs.
So I couldn't help myself but to respond.
Wow, the comments here are even more shocking than the schismatic text above, but yours takes the cake Andre. Who says the Church's position is correct? Jesus Christ does and ensures that the dogmatic teachings of the Church are correct. Natural law further shows that the Church is right. Before you all besmirch the Church, you should first actually learn what the Church, the Mystical Body of Christ, actually teaches. When was the last time any of you read your Catechism? Do you even have a Catechism? Do you know what and why the Church teaches on these subjects? Have you read Humanae Vitae?
In all charity Andre, who cares what your position is on any of these? The Truth, of which the Church teaches, doesn't change with the fads of the time. Truth is objective, not subjective. If you want your theology to blow around like so many leaves in fall, there are many liberal mainline Protestant churches that can accommodate you, though I sincerely pray you change your mind. The Church is incapable of teaching error, for in Matt 16:18 our Lord says "And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it." Our Lord Christ Jesus states that the gates of Hell will not prevail against His Church.
The Church does not sway with the winds of popular trends. It is not a house of straw. It is built on a solid foundation not a weak one like our Lord talked about. Woman cannot be ordained for our Lord didn't call woman to ordination. This is not a misogynist thing, as most pagan religions had priestesses, but because it was the will of God. The Church doesn't hate gays, it loves gays. It loves all sinners; being a sinner is the only qualification to be a Catholic. It rightfully states though, that homosexual sex is intrinsically immoral and that those with this inclination must lead a chaste life, much like religious. That is their cross, for our Lord said "pick up your cross and follow Me". We all have a cross to bear. Homosexual sex is forbidden for the same reason contraceptive sex is forbidden, for sex is not just about our carnal desires but to be both unitive and procreative.
Sadly, it would appear that the National Catholyc Reporter is anything but Catholic. Writers such as Ms. Manson show that this is not Catholic even if they call themselves such. Allowing the printing of patent lies and invective filled words shows that this publication is not filled with Christian charity nor Catholic faith. I will pray for you all, in my Church you all rail against. "Father may they all be as one, as You and I are one". When I see stuff like this it fills my heart with sadness, but also renewed faith and hope in the power of the Holy Spirit, that he may open your hearts to the fullness of Truth in the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.
David A. Homoney
Hoc Est Enim Corpus Meum
Pax Christi Vobiscum
Couldn't help myself. We should all pray for these people.
markomalley says:
I wonder how often the archbishop and his fellow hierarchs stop to ask what it is about the tradition that makes it great.
Of all the "traditions" she listed, I note with interest that preaching the Gospel was not one of them.
She should fit in just fine at the Birdcage liner.
Jerry, God bless you – that's it! I knew someone here would know where it was – ROFL. I was waiting for another NC Fishwrap article to ask.
@Father Z – John Allen has a new piece out you may want to look at.
http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/vatican-must-hear-anger-and-hurt-american-nuns-official-says
dhgyapong says:
I have never seen Archbishop Dolan's private digs within his official residence, but I suspect there is an institutional feel, an "upstairs/downstairs" quality to how he and other clerics who live in the place actually live. In archbishop's palaces here in Canada, there are formal rooms that are similar to those in an embassy but the priests who live there do not generally eat in the formal dining room, or flake out on the couches in the formal receiving rooms, they eat in a plain cafeteria perhaps in the basement and maybe there is also a kind of informal TV room also in the basement or upstairs where they can watch a game together now and then. In some sense it is like living in a museum where there's an aspect of heritage to preserve, but it's not like living in a lavish environment where one can do whatever one wants.
Athelstan says:
Does the archbishop really not recognize that church attendance was at its peak when the institution made its greatest effort to engage with spiritual needs and moral dilemmas of the modern world? [?!? I think she means when the Spirit of Vatican II was at work. I'm not sure.]
No doubt, Fr.
She's left to answer some curious questions about that Spirit, however. Mass attendance held steady through the pre-conciliar period – then began to drop like a rock beginning in 1965. In other words, church attendance was at its peak when the institution (note that word) still had a clear sense of itself and had not yet tried to dabble with aggiornamento. It flung the doors to the world wide open – only instead of the world flooding in, Catholics flooded right out.
Fuquay Steve says:
To paraphrase a rock song : Meet the new writer – same as the old.
irishgirl says:
Good rebuttal, David Homoney!
Women like this Jamie drive me nuts.
So what if she has an 'M.Div" from Yale? That doesn't prove anything!
Sometimes I think that 'some' [notice that I say 'some' and not 'all'] female university graduates with high-sounding degrees have intellectual cholesterol clogging their brains.
They ought to learn some humility, and imitate Our Lady's 'fiat' instead.
Thanks irishgirl, and I think you are spot on as well.
Dear Ms. Manson:
"Were these young folks to have seen Dolan stopping to chat with a panhandler or hand out sandwiches to someone resting on the sidewalk, he might have done the nearly impossible: he might have captured the undivided attention of young, frenzied shoppers."
Oh, if only…wait a minute he did exactly this (well, turkeys not sandwiches, but whatever) two weeks ago.
CBS New York covered it. How did you miss it???
Or did it just not fit your made-up storyline?
Nice journalism!
JohnE says:
"Is it the fixation on contraception (which has driven more than one couple away from the Pre-Cana process)?"
Light of the World is a 256-page book with one paragraph dealing with contraception and who is it that is fixated on contraception?