B A R E L Y B A D W E B S I T E
Danno versus Dano
Here is the correspondence that took place among crossword constructors over a few days on the subject of how to render the phrase "Book 'em, Danno." As you know if you came from the previous page, which you should have, the point is that if high-quality constructors exert this much effort figuring out how best to spell Danny Williams's nickname, they certainly try hard to get the other facts of crosswords right too.
And these aren't just any old constructors whose words you'll be reading. Among the correspondents quoted below are some of the best crossword creators in the world.
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 08:21:10 -0500
From: PWB
Subject: Hawaii Five-O
Morning, all,
I'm working on a grid that has BOOKEMDANO (10) in it, which I thought was correct, but a Google search gets 18,900 hits whereas BOOKEMDANNO (11) gets 34,700. None of the sources I could find were very convincing to me; I'd feel a lot better if I could see the line as it appeared in the script, but no luck there, either. Luckily, my matching theme entry can be either 10 or 11 letters long, but I'm not sure which to use.
Private replies are fine. Thanks for the time.
--PWB
From: KM
The cruciverb.com database has DANO as the answer for "Book 'em ___!" several times, but all by one publisher. The same clue yields DANNO fewer times but used by three publishers, including NYT and LAT. The character's real name is Danny Williams and is listed as such on websites such as www.tv.com. There is a section on this site where people review particular episodes:
http://www.tv.com/hawaii-five-o/show/1277/reviews.ht
ml&review_id=59138&flag=1&order=
You'll notice that one person spells it Danno while the other spells it Dano. This could be one of those cases where there is no real correct answer. But if you're submitting to the NYT ot LAT, at least you could refer to their previous usage.
--KM
From: BP
From my recollection, Steve-o was usually asking (or screaming) for one person to be booked, so "Book 'im Dan(n)o" would be the quote if that's the case.
Total Television by Alex McNeil is an extremely reliable reference book. I've yet to find an error in it. And Total Television says it's DANO.
For Christmas I want a T-shirt that says GOOGLE SCHMOOGLE.
From: MR
I was gonna say what NH said but he said it faster. And "Book 'em, Dano" (rather than "Book 'im, Dano") is how I've always seen it.
--MR
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 10:56:47 -0500
From: JP
from imdb.com:
Even today, more than twenty years after the program stopped production, it is broadcast in syndication in markets all over the world. Its 'Book 'em, Danno' catchphrase is still as much a part of our popular culture as that famed line from another show of the same era: 'Beam me up, Scotty.'
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 09:55:27 -0600 (CST)
From: RH
Even the major TV reference books can't agree on a spelling.
"Total Television" by Alex McNeil spells it "Dano" and "The Complete Directory to Prime Time Network and Cable TV Shows" by Tim Brooks and Earle Marsh spell it "Danno." Pick which ever reference suits your needs.
> from imdb.com:
Even today, more than twenty years after the program stopped production, it
is broadcast in syndication in markets all over the world. Its 'Book 'em,
Danno' catchphrase is still as much a part of our popular culture as that
famed line from another show of the same era: 'Beam me up, Scotty.'
Okay, but the line "Beam me up, Scotty" was never uttered on Star Trek. So I'd say the moral of this story is that IMDB is not a reliable source of information. Total Television is.
--NH
> Even the major TV reference books can't agree on a spelling.
The latter also lists one of the stars of "The X-Files" as GILIAN Anderson and one of the characters on "The Adventures of Superman" as Jimmy OLSON. I'll stick with Total Television.
From: DK
FWIW, James MacArthur's official fan club Web site and personal Web site list it as Danno. If anybody ought to know, it's him.
--DK
From: RL
Ack! What's next? Clues like this?
"Five-Oh Assistant: Var."
From: GP
At 06:53 AM 11/21/2005, DK wrote:
>FWIW, James MacArthur's official fan club Web site and personal Web site
>list it as Danno. If anybody ought to know, it's him.
All of the references so far have at least a small possibility for error. What you want is an unimpeachable source. List Jerome Coopersmith. He wrote for Hawaii 5-0 for six years, and the title of his memoirs is "Book 'em Danno!"
--GP
I get what NH is saying about Total Television. I have heard nothing but good things about it. Still, I have to wonder if this is one of these situations where there is no perfectly right answer, simply because of a lack of documentation that makes it "official" (for example, a press release from the television studio that produced the show). The NYT has seen fit to use DANNO, as has the LAT. CrosSynergy has mostly used DANO but did use DANNO once. I assume they all consulted their respective trusted references, and these produced differing results because ... yes, that's right ... there is no perfectly right answer.
By the way, it would seem that Total Television covers programming only to late 1995 or early 1996. I wonder whether there are plans for an updated edition.
My last post was a little silly, so here's a serious one. There's certainly a chance that both spellings are acceptable. It's a nickname, after all. Would I have done that if I were the writer of Hawaii 5-0? No, but I wasn't the writer. Even Jerome Coopersmith is only telling you that DANNO is correct. He's not telling you DANO is also wrong, at least not on the cover (I suppose he could inside the book).
I would probably run screaming and come up with something from Gilligan's Island instead.
-RL
That may be true, but I do think this a case where there is a more correct answer: Danno. The other may have gained acceptance through ignorance, but if sources associated with the show, including a writer and the man who played the character, say it's Danno, that's what I'd go with. I have to assume they saw it print any number of times from any number of sources during the years the show was on the air.
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 18:10:34 +0000
From: VF
At the risk of imposing too much logic on this discussion, let's analyze:
Neither DANNO nor DANO should be at the top of anyone's word list - and obvioulsy, they are not in this case, as someone is trying to use BOOKEMDANNO.
If one must use DANO independently, one can clue that to the well-known soap opera actress, Linda Dano. See http://www.filmbug.com/db/108570
Since the character's primary name on the show was DANNY, I would tend to think that his "O-nickname" would be DANNO - really it should be DANNY-O, but that's another topic.
I was not a close follower of the show, but I'd take issue with the notion that the phrase in question should be "Book 'im..." I can see it being either or both of "Book him..." and "Book 'em..."
Hope this helps but am not holding my breath.
--VF
At 08:01 AM 11/21/2005, RL wrote:
>[Hawaii 5-0 writer] Jerome Coopersmith is only telling you that DANNO is
>correct. He's not telling you DANO is also wrong
I'm sorry, but I don't understand this statement one bit. The script is the ultimate resource. If the man who wrote the script says he wrote DANNO, then DANO is incorrect. There is no possibility that sources specifying DANO are anything but typos.
Oh yeah, in addition to that logic thing, I have a book entitled "The Complete Directory to Prime Time Network and Cable Shows 1946 - Present" (c) 2003 by Tim Brooks and Earle Marsh (which I bought at the suggestion of Nancy Schuster, I think), and it says: "At the end of the following season [referring to '78-'79], James MacArthur decided he had had enough of playing McGarrett's top assistant, Danny 'Danno' Williams, and he too left..."
From: JH
Subject: WILL SHORTZ ON TALK OF THE NATION TODAY
FYI: My husband just emailed me that Wil Shortz will be on NPR's "Talk of the Nation" today. Probably later in the hour, around 1:30 to 1:40 CST.
DK wrote <<That may be true...>>
I didn't say anything was true. I said "There's certainly a chance...". Since nobody has (yet) produced a definitive answer, there are three possibilities, just given these two spellings (excluding, for example, DANNY-O, which could be pronounced "DAN-OH").
DANO is right, DANNO is wrong (seems unlikely, given the evidence)
DANNO is right, DANO is wrong (possible)
Both DANNO and DANO are right (possible)
GP wrote <<If the man who wrote the script says he wrote DANNO, then DANO is incorrect...>>
But the man who wrote the script did NOT say that. First off, he was only one writer. He used DANNO in the title of his book. And he certainly didn't say that DANO is incorrect. Maybe he made some definitive statement inside the book, but I haven't read it and I'm not going to speculate.
Given the evidence of the book and James MacArthur's Web site, I would say it is seems certain that DANNO is correct. But I have seen no evidence that says DANO is wrong and it is possible they are both right. If we were to vote, I'd vote that only DANNO is correct, but facts aren't governed by voting <note: avoiding opportunity to make a political comment here>.
--RL
RL and GP,
You are both excused from jury duty.
From: CS
RL -
I respectfully disagree. I think GP HAS produced a definitive answer.
If the man who wrote the script used "Danno" in his title, that certainly is the name of the character. It's ludicrous to think that he either misspelled it in the title or spelled it one way in the title and another in the body of the book. As for him only being one writer, trust me (I'm a TV writer), writers on a series do not get to choose how they spell the names of their main characters. Everyone spells it the same way.
And as for the writer not saying "Dano" was incorrect, I'm having a bit of trouble following you here. First you write "And he certainly didn't say that DANO is incorrect", and then you say that you haven't read the book. That aside, I was taught in elementary school that 2+2=4. The teacher did not take the time to tell me that 2+2=1,457 is incorrect, but it certainly is.
--CS
This isn't jury duty, so I'll respond.
DANNO or DANO was given to us as a nickname for the character. Real people's nicknames sometimes have more than one spelling and this is one of the nicknames that might have more than one spelling. As far as I know, we never saw it written in the show. Many people seem to think that DANO is the (or a) correct spelling. It's certainly possible that they are all wrong. Given the evidence, I even happen to think they're all wrong. But that's just my opinion and I am not going to tell you that I know they're wrong. The facts, as we are aware of them, don't support that. Even if we all agree, this isn't a democracy -- we don't get to vote on facts.
Unfortunately, this is not an easily verifiable fact like whether Detroit is east of Atlanta or how many dollars I have in my pocket. There are only a few people that know the answer definitively and none of them are on the list. CS, if you've got connections ...
--RL.
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:19:38 EST
From: SB
"Danno" ... "Dano"
My two cents. All I can afford. I'm a crossword constructor.
Taking in all that has been discussed here, when it comes to using this word in a puzzle, for me the debate is over. DANNO is it. Especially in a theme entry. Which is right, which is almost right, is fine for just plain discussion, but we're talking crossword entry. If you use DANO in the "Hawaii Five-O" context, you have what I call a door-to-door puzzle.
That is, on the date your puzzle sees daylight, be prepared to go door to door throughout its distribution area -- knock, knock -- to explain your justification.
--SB
> DANNO or DANO was given to us as a nickname for the character. Real people's
> nicknames sometimes have more than one spelling and this is one of the
> nicknames that might have more than one spelling. >
This is true. My daughter's nickname is Beanie, and conceivably you could spell it Beany, Beani, Beanee, Beeny, etc. But we don't; we spell it Beanie. That's how I look at the evidence from Coopersmith and MacArthur; the chosen spelling is Danno. The writers or creators could have spelled it Dano, and that would have an acceptable variation, but they chose not to. That means Dano is not correct, just an alternative that might have been.
From: T.O.
I'd still like to know if KAM FONG AS CHIN HO (15 letters, mind you) could be used in the puzzle. No debates, either, as this is printed in the credits - come to think of it, has anyone tried to get a visual on an episode to see if the offending name is indeed "written" in the title credits?
Divertingly,
--T.O.
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:15:14
From: HB
Wouldn't DANO be pronounced DAY-NO? Cf. Dano-Norwegian. I've been trying to track down the correct pronunciation of Royal Dano, which I've always thought rhymed with DRANO, but can't find anything on the internet to support that.
Denny (Note how the 2 n's shorten the vowel)
You would think, following conventional rules. But actress Linda Dano pronounces her name DANNO.
Okay, I'm a believer -- it's BOOK EM DANNO.
If I need DANO I can always use TV actress Linda DANO or movie actor Royal DANO.
From: MW
At 02:15 PM, Monday, 11/21/2005, HB wrote:
>Wouldn't DANO be pronounced DAY-NO? Cf. Dano-Norwegian. I've been trying
>to track down the correct pronunciation of Royal Dano, which I've always
>thought rhymed with DRANO, but can't find anything on the internet to
>support that.
>Denny (Note how the 2 n's shorten the vowel)
Note that DRANO is always spelled with a horizontal bar (indicating long vowel).
From: NJ
Subject: The Da..o Problem
Dear Crossword Connstructers,
I recenntly learnned there is ann onngoinng argumennt regardinng the spellinng of my nnicknname. This is painnfully troublinng to me as I donn't wannt to inncite differennces amonngst friennds.
I hope it ennds soonn.
Sinncerely, D. Williams
From: JD
At 01:42 PM 11/21/2005, you wrote:
>At 08:01 AM 11/21/2005, RL wrote:
>>[Hawaii 5-0 writer] Jerome Coopersmith is only telling you that DANNO is
>>correct. He's not telling you DANO is also wrong
>I'm sorry, but I don't understand this statement one bit. The script is the ultimate resource. If the man who wrote the script says he wrote DANNO, then DANO is incorrect. There is no possibility that sources specifying DANO are anything but typos.
>--GP
Unless, of course, others of the show's scribes spelled it DANO in their scripts.
In "Taxi" scripts, you can find Alex's last name spelled RIEGER and REIGER (mostly RIEGER, which is thus accepted as the "correct" spelling, in spite of what McNeil says).
I wonder how many "Seinfeld" scripts have YADA YADA YADA and which have YADDA YADDA YADDA.
--JD
To the tune of ...
You spell Dano and I spell Danno
You spell Potatoe and I spell Potato
Dano Danno Potatoe Potato
Let's call the whole thing off
Hmmm.. I dunno (I mean duno)
> You spell Dano and I spell Danno
> You spell Potatoe and I spell Potato
> Dano Danno Potatoe Potato
> Let's call the whole thing off
> Hmmm.. I dunno (I mean duno)
Yes, let's talk Qaddafi/Khadaffy now. No, let's not.
Subject: Booking Danno
I have a connection of sorts, an internet connection. You might want to take a look here
http://www.hawaiifive0.org/bookem.shtml
for a little Hawaiian punch.
From: ER
On 21 Nov 2005, at 4:30 PM, CS wrote:
> I have a connection of sorts, an internet connection. You might
> want to take a look here
> http://www.hawaiifive0.org/bookem.shtml
> for a little Hawaiian punch.
Arrgghh! The book designer doesn't know the difference between an apostrophe and an opening single quotation mark????
-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*-.,,.-*"*?
--ER
True, but you digress... :-)
From: BO
On 11/21/05, ER wrote:
> Arrgghh! The book designer doesn't know the difference between an
> apostrophe and an opening single quotation mark????
Are you sure it's not an `okina?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okina
--BO
From: MC
On 21 Nov 2005 at 15:30, CS wrote:
> RL -
> I have a connection of sorts, an internet connection. You might want
> to take a look here
Yes, it looks like an actual book cover, but note at the end that it says this article is an excerpt from a memoir-in-progress. It hasn't actually been published, as far as I can see on Amazon, and this excerpt contains various serious errors.
He gets both parts of Khigh Dhiegh's name wrong, rendering it as "Kheigh Diegh"--easy mistakes to make with that name, but still, we're talking about the extent of his accuracy and authenticity. France Nuyen becomes Frances Nuyen. He's inconsistent even about the name of his own show, calling it "Hawaii 5-O" or just "5-O", when it was actually "Hawaii Five-O." Is it the Muehibach Hotel or the Muehlbach Hotel? Etc.
Given that this is a memoir-in-progress that apparently hasn't been proofread or fact-checked, his "Danno" version may or may not be accurate. Unfortunately, the "Book 'em" phrase doesn't seem to have ever been used as the title of an episode. So is that little Hawaiian punch a knockout? Not to me.
--MC
Message: 39
Try this excerpt, from the Playboy Interview with James Coopersmith:
Q. So, why did you call Dan Williams "Danno?" And how do you spell it anyway?
A. Well, it started with Jack Lord, who wanted to give the character a nickname. At first, it was Danny-oh, but the producers didn't like that, so he switched to Dan-oh. We usually spelled it D-A-N-N-O but we never did decide on an official spelling -- it depended on who was writing the script.
OK, I'll confess. I made that up. But is there a single person here who knows definitively what James Coopersmith or anyone else would say if they were asked? You don't, so stop pretending you do.
First of all, there's no need to be snotty, I've been very polite with you, despite your questionable "logic". Second of all, since Coopersmith didn't create the show, he seems an unlikely final source. And thirdly, considering your attitude, I'm done with this. Spell it however you want.
Well, your last sentence definitely sounded like it was directed toward me personally. [Insert handshake here] Danno it is, then.
I wasn't trying to be snotty or insulting and I certainly wasn't trying to single CS out. Sorry about that.
[handshake]
At 03:15 PM, Monday, 11/21/2005, BP wrote:
>>You spell Dano and I spell Danno
>>You spell Potatoe and I spell Potato
>>Dano Danno Potatoe Potato
>>Let's call the whole thing off
>>Hmmm.. I dunno (I mean duno)
>Yes, let's talk Qaddafi/Khadaffy now. No, let's not.
Hey, don't forget Gadafi.
From: EB
Subject: Phonics (was Booking Danno)
On Nov 21, 2005, at 4:15 PM, HB wrote:
> Denny (Note how the 2 n's shorten the vowel)
I certainly see how the two n's shorten the vowel, but try telling that to the people who pronounce "betta" the same as "beta".
Oh, the calamity,
--EB
From: Johnny
Subject: Danno v. Dano request
KM and all members:
As some of you might know, I have a few pages on my Web site about crossword puzzles, and I've been waiting for a controversy like DANNO versus DANO to demonstrate just how hard constructors try to get it right, to demonstrate just how much puzzle players may trust their eyes. I want to express that if such a trivial point is so important, imagine how much more reliable the less trivial facts are.
What I'd like to do is copy this entire Cruciverb-l thread from beginning to end and post it on a new Web page that would be linked to from some sort of statement to the effect that crossword puzzles, at least the high-quality ones, contain so few errors. I'm writing to see whether anyone objects to such a plan.
I would remove any e-mail addresses for security reasons and I would remove certain other header information because it's uninteresting. The result would look something like what you'll find temporarily at barelybad.com/erase_temp_test_ DAWT htm.
Does any member of Cru-l object to my publishing such a page as it appears in part at that URL? Does it violate a copyright anyone wishes to enforce? Does it show a name you don't want shown? Is the idea disagreeable to you for any other reason? If so, please let me know.
KM, I want to ask you specifically. If you object for any reason that's good enough for me.
--Johnny
P.S. It doesn't seem like there should be any controversy about whether it's Book 'em or Book 'im. When Steve-o wanted Dan-O to arrest more than one person, the sounds he made would have meant book them. When he wanted just one guy arrested, with those identical sounds he would have meant book him (which I think would never have been spelled 'im at all, so I also think BOOKHIMDANO would be justifiable if the clue were written right).
But what I really want to know now is whether a situation arose in any episode of Hawaai/Five=Oh in which the only bookee-to-be was a female. BOOKERDANNO and BOOKHERDANO open up more crossing possibilities for the original poster.
BOOKEMDANO (10)
BOOKERDANO (10)
BOOKIMDANO (10)
BOOKEMDANNO (11)
BOOKERDANNO (11)
BOOKIMDANNO (11)
BOOKHERDANO (11)
BOOKHIMDANO (11)
BOOKHERDANNO (12)
BOOKHIMDANNO (12)
Hi, there. Hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving complete with lots of turkey or the tofu equivalent.
I'm fascinated that my innocuous question about Hawaii Five-Oh has inspired such speculation, investigation, and now possible publication. Thanks to all who replied both directly and to the list; I ended up going with BOOKEMDANNO, in case you're wondering. In the end, I let precedent be the deciding factor (I sent it to an editor who has previously used the double-N spelling). I feel quite confident in that decision, even though it meant reworking almost half the puzzle. Three cheers for the clue database (and three more for the new solver asst)!
In short, I'm glad I asked. I'm especially glad that I'm able to consult such a critical, literate, reference-laden, and (for the most part) lighthearted group of individuals. Crosswords are meant to be fun, imo, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't also be dead accurate.
Happy holidays to all!