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Why **** Surviving Didn't Completely Kill the Drama for Me.
patrickrc95
March 2019 in The Walking Dead
I understand that there are people in this forum think Clem surviving Non-Determinantly was a cop-out that killed the drama for them, but for me that's not entirely the case. Although Clem may have made it through the course of this Season, she also lost one of her legs and is now back to being as vulnerable as she was back in Season 1 and could die at any time. While it's clear that we won't be seeing anymore of Clementine's story, I think this is still something to keep in mind when talking about the ending.
Analysis/Deep Discussion
Archielan
If it was determinant, people would still complain trust me. I mean, It's not like it would just pop a choice asking: "Do you want Clementine to die? Yes or No". Some people would not get the ending they want.
In Life is Strange Episode 3 in the alternate timeline, the player is given a choice between putting a Paralyzed Chloe out of her misery or not. If AJ had cut Clem's leg off right after she got bitten, and helped her walk back to the school, we could've easily gotten a similar decision.
Archielan posted: »
Antow82
if Clem died the ending would have been more emotional to me. None of the characters this season were worth anything Besides Clem imo so when I thought Clem was dead I actually felt something which is what the Walking Dead is supposed to be about and they ruined it by some dumb happy ending. Am I supposed to be invested when weak characters like Violet, Tenn and Louis die?
The fanbase is so polarized when it comes to Clem living or dying that no matter what the Still Not Bitten team did they still would've pissed people off. Clem may not be dead, but she also can't protect AJ or herself anymore. This is, in my opinion, a reasonable compromise.
Antow82 posted: »
if Clem died the ending would have been more emotional to me. None of the characters this season were worth anything Besides Clem imo so wh… moreen I thought Clem was dead I actually felt something which is what the Walking Dead is supposed to be about and they ruined it by some dumb happy ending. Am I supposed to be invested when weak characters like Violet, Tenn and Louis die?
I don't care about her not being able to protect AJ he's a Sociopath
patrickrc95 posted: »
The fanbase is so polarized when it comes to Clem living or dying that no matter what the Still Not Bitten team did they still would've piss… moreed people off. Clem may not be dead, but she also can't protect AJ or herself anymore. This is, in my opinion, a reasonable compromise.
Woah. Somebody's triggered.
Not triggered at all just speaking facts
Ghetsis
Percentages would be pretty lobsided for that choice then
In Life is Strange Episode 3 in the alternate timeline, the player is given a choice between putting a Paralyzed Chloe out of her misery or … morenot. If AJ had cut Clem's leg off right after she got bitten, and helped her walk back to the school, we could've easily gotten a similar decision.
I mean Clementine is practically all but dead since its impossible for her to survive any length of time with only one leg left.
Melton23
I don't think the leg would be an issue as AJ determiniantly implies that he will make her a new foot, and by him he will probably go ask Penis to do it for him. If that kid can make a bomb, he could probably make a prosthetic too, if not they'll probably find one on a walker or smthn.
None is going to be able to make a prosthetic leg at this point especially one effective enough to substitute an actual leg that she could use.
Melton23 posted: »
I don't think the leg would be an issue as AJ determiniantly implies that he will make her a new foot, and by him he will probably go ask Pe… morenis to do it for him. If that kid can make a bomb, he could probably make a prosthetic too, if not they'll probably find one on a walker or smthn.
You're not invested in a character if you want them to die. If you're invested into a character, it means you're genuinely interested in them and have the desire to see them come out on top. I'm invested in Negan's character in both the show and comics and if he died I'd probably be angry. To pluck the definition of investment for google...
'an act of devoting time, effort, or energy to a particular undertaking with the expectation of a worthwhile result.'
Now I wouldn't exactly call a Clem dying 'worthwhile' if you liked her. Minnie and Argo dying, now that's worthwhile, to me at least seeing as a fecken hate them both with a burning passion. So in conclusion, you're not invested in Clem, you don't like Clem, you want her story to meet a miserable end and I'm sorry to say but that's just not how every zombie survival story is supposed to end, otherwise it would just be one big fat cliché.
Just speaking facts.
Dale in the comics had a fecken peg leg and that worked just fine. Besides, they found a caravan that could potentially be willing to trade all kinds of useful things to help her out
That's the whole point that I was making. That's why it didn't kill the drama for me.
It would have been far better had they given her an ending similar to Arthur Morgan in Red Dead Redemption 2 with AJ now by himself having to move forward on his own in the world.
For me its really simply how the ending is the same no matter what. There really should have been a bad, an ok, and then the ending we got. Just the fact that this season was already so linear with choices that even the ending is the same no matter what is what I didnt like. Feels like it was kinda worthless. I dont feel like we gained anything and I dont feel like we lost anything. Sure Clem lost her leg, but shes in a perfectly safe spot now and protected and her story will never continue again so its kinda just "big whoop." The only real difference in ending is if Louis/Violet live, and it kinda says a lot if the "best ending" is the ending where Tenn gets fucking shot. Really shows how underwhelming the rest of the cast was when everyone would rather have Louis or Violet live instead of Tenn (which is what happens when your season only has 3 developed characters)
You're not invested in a character if you want them to die. If you're invested into a character, it means you're genuinely interested in the… morem and have the desire to see them come out on top. I'm invested in Negan's character in both the show and comics and if he died I'd probably be angry. To pluck the definition of investment for google... 'an act of devoting time, effort, or energy to a particular undertaking with the expectation of a worthwhile result.' Now I wouldn't exactly call a Clem dying 'worthwhile' if you liked her. Minnie and Argo dying, now that's worthwhile, to me at least seeing as a fecken hate them both with a burning passion. So in conclusion, you're not invested in Clem, you don't like Clem, you want her story to meet a miserable end and I'm sorry to say but that's just not how every zombie survival story is supposed to end, otherwise it would just be one big fat cliché. Just speaking facts.
Cleminator93
You can say that again.
You know that's a good point that only 3 characters this season were actually developed characters.
For me its really simply how the ending is the same no matter what. There really should have been a bad, an ok, and then the ending we got. … moreJust the fact that this season was already so linear with choices that even the ending is the same no matter what is what I didnt like. Feels like it was kinda worthless. I dont feel like we gained anything and I dont feel like we lost anything. Sure Clem lost her leg, but shes in a perfectly safe spot now and protected and her story will never continue again so its kinda just "big whoop." The only real difference in ending is if Louis/Violet live, and it kinda says a lot if the "best ending" is the ending where Tenn gets fucking shot. Really shows how underwhelming the rest of the cast was when everyone would rather have Louis or Violet live instead of Tenn (which is what happens when your season only has 3 developed characters)
RobertHirschko1
Not even my baby Rosie.
Riiiiight!!??
RobertHirschko1 posted: »
What exactly was the point of Rosie being in this game since she didn't nearly nothing at all.
Woof.
TheOneTrueBlue Banned
Clem dying would have been a cheap imitation of Season 1. The entire barn scene showed that and i was glad they didn't pull the old predictable crap. I'd say we deserved a happy ending for once seeing as most episodes have been depressing as hell. I got plenty of feels from that end scene anyway
They could have had numerous endings varying from good, bad, moderate or just ok. They could have had her die in an original manner separate from Lee by not having her die as a result of being bit but by any other number of ways.
Although i wouldn't say the ending is exactly a 'happy' ending since Clementine is practically dead the second any trouble happens since she's completely incapacitated now.
TheOneTrueBlue posted: »
Clem dying would have been a cheap imitation of Season 1. The entire barn scene showed that and i was glad they didn't pull the old predicta… moreble crap. I'd say we deserved a happy ending for once seeing as most episodes have been depressing as hell. I got plenty of feels from that end scene anyway
Well if Hershel was able to get a prosthetic leg i am sure something can be made for Clem. I wouldn't say she'd be practically dead now due to the leg at all. If she's able to use a horse to get away quickly, there's that. Or a car? I guess we just have to imagine that Erickson is somewhere that will remain safe for them. As i said, if she has a prosthetic leg made that will help her to move a lot better.
I'd rather her have all her limbs missing than completely dead though.
They could have had numerous endings varying from good, bad, moderate or just ok. They could have had her die in an original manner separate… more from Lee by not having her die as a result of being bit but by any other number of ways. Although i wouldn't say the ending is exactly a 'happy' ending since Clementine is practically dead the second any trouble happens since she's completely incapacitated now.
You might as well want her dead if she is nearly limbless since she'd end up dying a horrid death such as Ben did when he was impaled in the alleyway with the walkers swarming the alley.
Well if Hershel was able to get a prosthetic leg i am sure something can be made for Clem. I wouldn't say she'd be practically dead now due … moreto the leg at all. If she's able to use a horse to get away quickly, there's that. Or a car? I guess we just have to imagine that Erickson is somewhere that will remain safe for them. As i said, if she has a prosthetic leg made that will help her to move a lot better. I'd rather her have all her limbs missing than completely dead though.
Dude my point is, i am glad that the last image we have is her alive ok? I think 90% of the fandom wanted this. I was fed up of seeing misery in every episode (obviously this is TWD) so it was nice for something light hearted this time. I personally feel there are ways as i explained before that would help her get around easier. Pretty sure they would prepare for a dangerous situation in case she needed to get away. She has plenty of people to help her too.
All that doesn't matter now because we'll never know what the future will hold. Her story is done.
When there's no antagonist or any purpose or climax to the episode, you're setting up yourself up to fail. Episode 3 was esentially removing the railway, Episode 4 is the train crash.
Not necessarily. for example Lee living or getting a cop out would leave a lot of salt or disappointment.
Yes you want him to come out on top but not in such a fantasy ridicilous way.
What makes what happened to Clem a fantasy? She lost a leg and has to live with it for the rest of her life. Both kinds of fans got what they want, Clementine lives but she has to suffer for it. Lee living wouldn't be disappointing. Know why? Because a majority of the fans chose to remove his arm. Now I don't think the majority would choose that choice if they wanted him to die from the bite, would they?
Dan10 posted: »
Not necessarily. for example Lee living or getting a cop out would leave a lot of salt or disappointment. Yes you want him to come out on top but not in such a fantasy ridicilous way.
Perhaps I didn't word it right. I meant after Leee "dies" or you leave him, a lame cop-out occurs and it turns out he survived.
What makes what happened to Clem a fantasy? She lost a leg and has to live with it for the rest of her life. Both kinds of fans got what the… morey want, Clementine lives but she has to suffer for it. Lee living wouldn't be disappointing. Know why? Because a majority of the fans chose to remove his arm. Now I don't think the majority would choose that choice if they wanted him to die from the bite, would they?
Well the majority of fans were happy Clementine survived, despite it being a cop out, so I can't see why things would be any different for Lee. Very few people were angry over it, in fact I've only seen about 4-6 people who were angry about it, and they were all form here, over a few dozen comments elsewhere and videos, even from professional reviewers. So looking at the fan reactions in regards to what happened to Clementine, no, I do not think people will be salty over Lee surviving
DabigRG
Essentially.
BigBadPaul
"Your choices such as how you encourage AJ, who you romance, how you treat your friends, all add up to determine the ending in the final episode"
More like, determines which of the 3 characters dies, not which ending we get...
Funniest thing, the choices don't even build up to determine who dies, the death gets decided on a single binary choice inside of the caves in Episode 4...
Also what was the "big sacrifice" to keep our home? lmao
Also glad I finally found a source to the "Kent said determinant characters wont die" thing, even though as expected they just fuck off right away after doing nothing. (James does a bit but not for long at all, and Lilly was a joke)
And yeah that was just a straight up lie. Ending is exactly the same, only difference is if Louis/Violet/Tenn is alive.
BigBadPaul posted: »
"Your choices such as how you encourage AJ, who you romance, how you treat your friends, all add up to determine the ending in the final epi… moresode" More like, determines which of the 3 characters dies, not which ending we get... Funniest thing, the choices don't even build up to determine who dies, the death gets decided on a single binary choice inside of the caves in Episode 4... pls
the choices don't even build up to determine who dies, the death gets decided on a single binary choice inside of the caves in Episode 4...
And Episode 2. Remember if you save Violet she retains her sight and joins you in the forest. If you save Louis he doesn't lose his tongue and joins you in the forest. Choices did matter this season, but different choices mattered in different ways, and some more than others. They said at the beginning that there was gonna be a definitive ending and that's what we got.