"We don't knock during dark rituals?"
The Live Feed: "Fox leaning toward Dollhouse renewal". This is really going down to the wire. Update 1: Variety thinks it could be a 13 episode order for a Friday night. Update 2: End of Show reveals that 'Epitaph One' is being screened at Fox's offices as "part of their upfronts preparation". Update 3: Ausiello says "Joss Whedon will have to agree to a drastically reduced budget". Update 4: Sources tell TV Guide that Dollhouse is now "looking really good" for a Season 2.
Simon | Dollhouse | 11:01 CET | 398 comments total | tags: dollhouse
It is all so very exciting.
IrrationaliTV | May 15, 11:04 CET
*Gets out the popcorn and sits back to enjoy the spectacle*
Caroline | May 15, 11:06 CET
Wish we would get news like that for Terminator too^^
Awesome | May 15, 11:06 CET
And here comes Ausiello:
I'm hearing this as well. Probably 13-episode p/u
ETA: yeah, "pickup", of course. :)
[ edited by wiesengrund on 2009-05-15 20:10 ]
wiesengrund | May 15, 11:09 CET
pickup.
Happy dance. In my head because I'm at a talk right now.
ETA: Any word on fall vs. mid-season?
[ edited by jkalderash on 2009-05-15 20:10 ]
jkalderash | May 15, 11:09 CET
@theonetruebix | May 15, 11:11 CET
I'm trying to keep my hopes down... But because of all the news, the lowest my hopes can go is "Mid-season Dollhouse renewal" instead of "Canceled."
Chrisham2 | May 15, 11:12 CET
Well, THR said:
Besides, a show airing in the fall on Fox is a bit like running in midseason on most networks -- it�s not their strongest part of the year and maybe ... maybe ...
So, that kinda hints at fall. But that seems to be pure speculation.
ETA: And yeah, we are not there yet.
I am deeply tickled by "Maybe Fox executives are just sick of being vilified on Whedonesque.com." :-)
thespian | May 15, 11:12 CET
Before we actually find out I think we should recognise that, as far as we know, Fox have treated Dollhouse fairly.
They didn't air episodes out of order, they did run the entire season (PR mixup over 13 notwithstanding), they did stick to the schedule, they did say they knew Friday nights would be tough and it's clear that they are still seriously considering a second season.
Even if they actually decide not to renew I don't think we can complain the same way that we did (and still do) with Firefly.
The Fox execs have clearly had a big say in the direction of the show, but that's their right. They are paying the bill after all. But whether their decisions were right or wrong I don't think they can be called incompetent. I think they clearly believed they made the right decisions at the time.
zz9 | May 15, 11:13 CET
*giggles at b!X*
swanjun | May 15, 11:15 CET
Today is a good day.
sumogrip | May 15, 11:16 CET
YES! I think fox execs will go from vilified to adored!
Ricardo L. | May 15, 11:16 CET
Variety!!
gossi | May 15, 11:17 CET
B!x, do you want a treatment?
And what a day it is! The 15th of May! Exactly one year after we got our first glimpse of the show.
Please be making with the yes. I want to go to there.
Mort | May 15, 11:17 CET
Looks like Friday:
Word spread Friday ayem that "Dollhouse" is looking good for a 13-episode sophomore renewal and is likely to stay in its Friday night berth.
I don't know whether to allow hopes to rise for the weekend and then be dashed on Monday, or what. But for the first time, I'm actually a little hopeful.
palehorse | May 15, 11:18 CET
Thank you zz9. Could you tell that to everyone on Twitter and Facebook?
Seriously, a second-season pickup would be amazingly super fantastic, but even if it doesn't happen I will defend the Fox execs to my death on this one. Unless Joss tells me not to.
Now Maurissa is spazzing out with impatience on Twitter.
Word spread Friday ayem...
"Ayem"? I love Variety speak.
Is it cheaper to continue an existing show than it is to develop a completely new one for Friday nights?
This reminds me of those days when we'd wait to hear of Angel's renewal. The end of Season Four was a particularly scary time.
Ameer | May 15, 11:19 CET
Conscious of the perception of fans in general, and we Whedonites in particular, as bitter and strident, I've been trying to be conscious of FOX's perspective throughout my efforts to plea for renewal, and to cast such pleas in a practical, financial light ("Give us a summer and a DVD set and we'll give you a second-season audience" rather than "If you don't renew Dollhouse, you'll have confirmed everything I hate about networks").
That having been said, thespian's not wrong.
Mercenary | May 15, 11:20 CET
That's Variety article made me laugh a happy laugh, not the cynical one I'm used to. Something must be up.
redders | May 15, 11:20 CET
I don't know how I feel about Variety's comment that it would likely stay on Friday, as that would likely mean not much potential for ratings growth, but at this point, I'll just be happy to see it renewed, regardless of what night it's on.
SteveJ2008 | May 15, 11:22 CET
Caroline, it is if they have to build an aircraft hangar sized set that looks like a luxury spa on two levels.
Don't know the exact figures but most new shows fail, so one that has a track record of decent figures on the toughest night is a better bet than a leap in the dark with a new show.
Considering that Dollhouse is quite cheap already and has a set already built, it probably was their best option for the night.
I'm amazed, btw, that Fox want to stick with scripted stuff on Friday. Dollhouse seems to be a vehicle for them to solidify the night, if it gets renewed.
I'm getting ready to do my happy dance! :)
angry_puppy | May 15, 11:25 CET
Ok. I'm throwing caution to the wind, I'm going to allow myself to be optimistic about Dollhouse's chances for once. With this outpouring of positive news from reputable sources I can't keep being pessimistic about this.
*chants*Dollhouse season 2! Dollhouse season 2!*/chants*
AnotherFireflyfan | May 15, 11:26 CET
I'm there, b!X, I just need all the rest of you and Fox to catch up.
BuffyGroupie | May 15, 11:26 CET
Hopefully to a renewal decision would be a massive PR boost for the show. How many people have not tuned in because they "Don't want to watch a show that's going to be cancelled in a few weeks anyway"?
A second season pickup might make many people check it out over the break on Hulu or DVD and then tune in when it returns.
I'm supposed to be writing a paper for my finals, due today, but can't seem to break away from hitting f5 and hoping the word "RENEWED" pops up.
BigVessXpress | May 15, 11:27 CET
Come on FOX!
Please!!!!!!!!!
Shep | May 15, 11:31 CET
This is intense.
Can we pull over at the next rest stop? I need to go to the bathroom.
It would be cheaper if they were going to replace it with a game show or a reality show but if it were going to be another one hour drama I don't think it would be cheaper to put a new show on the air. Especially because as small as Dollhouse's audience may be it has an existing small audience and with a new show they may get an even smaller audience or nothing at all - I mean we are talking Friday.
I think it's much more likely to air in the fall. With no 24 and no American Idol on 2 nights a week, Fox's fall schedule is just less crowded in general.
DaisyButtercup | May 15, 11:34 CET
Can you hold it a little longer, b!x? We're almost there.
Not yet my little b!X
*crosses fingers and toes*
Zannadoo | May 15, 11:36 CET
I never really bought into all the gloom -- totally irrational, but I've just never quite believed the show was done for. Somehow, though, I'm still enjoying pushing the refresh button on Whedonesque today. A lot. Really a lot.
Maggie | May 15, 11:37 CET
Intense doesn't begin to describe it. I'm trying to get some work done, but keep popping back in to check the black.
zz9, it probably helps that all the episodes on Hulu are really good ones, too. ;-) Needs is a great first episode to see, I think that episode alone could get somebody interested in the premise and the show.
I haven't been this excited in a long time! I should be working right now, but can't stop refreshing the home page of Whedonesque, lol! Dollhouse is such a great show - I can't imagine what Joss & Co. will do with a 2nd season =)
satine79 | May 15, 11:38 CET
Yes, this is how my day is going to be spent. I've given up trying anything else.
ShanshuBugaboo | May 15, 11:39 CET
This is almost as intense as refreshing for the Secret Serenity screenings.
They couldn't not renew it after buoying our hopes this way, could they?! *horrors*
Hahahaha. I remember organising the UK screenings, where everybody was sat here pressing F5 until I finished my toast and tea to put them online.
I kind of like that my second post to date spun off into this. I know I can't claim any kind of credit for that, but it's still neat.
I just hope a lynch mob doesn't form if our hopes are then dashed...
I don't care if it comes back for the fall or mid-season, so long as it comes back. This show will be spectacular...they just need to give it half a chance.
mouse | May 15, 11:44 CET
Bwhaha gossi. You just made me snort my soda! :)
AICN has picked up the HR news - nothing new, but it is spreading
I remember organising the UK screenings, where everybody was sat here pressing F5 until I finished my toast and tea to put them online.
I remember getting tickets to the Serenity advance screenings.
I was at work and had to go somewhere so I gave a co worker my credit card and told him to keep trying. Despite the fact that he was on the only till in a busy superstore serving customers he managed to get a ticket!
I have a request! If the renewal news does come through, can we title the thread as such?
LINK TEXT: Dollhouse back for round 2.
DESCRIPTION: It's gonna be an extravaganza bonanza!
Any mod who changes the link to say this will be in my good books forever. And those are good books to be in.
Unfortunately I don't have time to read the other comments here, but one thing I must say: Oh Fox, let my 100 comment on Whedonesque be a happy scream about Dollhouse having been renewed, please..pretty pretty please!!!!
JotheCat | May 15, 11:47 CET
Shall we play a game while we wait for the news? How about if we only comment in the form of a question? Isn't this wait exciting? Is anyone else really thrilled for the prospect of another season of Dollhouse?
How can you even ask that?
Favorite line was "And it�s said that Fox execs rather like the series, especially the latter half of the season". As I understand it, wasn't the first part of he season driven by the Fox Exec's guidance? Like saying "Fox execs rather liked the order of the episodes presented on the Firefly DVD set."
EditorAl | May 15, 11:48 CET
TamaraC said:
Is it "all so" or "also"? ;)
JMaloney | May 15, 11:49 CET
Grrr aargh.
I'm afk for pretty much the rest of the weekend, so I won't see anything even quasi-official. And it's looking so hopeful.
I'm going to have to just believe that it has been renewed and hope that Monday is not a crushing rude awakening.
Septimus | May 15, 11:49 CET
Are we going to hear on Monday, or today? The article said Monday, Felicia Day twittered that it was today...
Today is touted as decision day, but Monday is the official upfront presentation.
I have to say that this will be the most nail biting weekend ever.
badwolf | May 15, 11:52 CET
At the latest, we'll know on Monday (since that is Fox's upfront). Seems the actual decision will be made today, and they may or may not announce it today.
Optimism? Strange...
fortunateizzi | May 15, 11:53 CET
Need food substance. Must break from computer.
Must you, badwolf? Can't you be hopeful instead? All the beautiful people are doing it.
Dollhouse is trending on Twitter again.
Could be both, I guess, JMaloney.
Decision will be made today.
Variety & Hollywood Reporter may report pickup today.
Official on-the-record on Monday.
However if THR and Variety report it as picked up later today, it's picked up.
Are we actually going to get there today?
Emmie | May 15, 11:55 CET
@TamaraC: Just poking fun at the debate over Topher's "misunderstood" line from "Ghost" that raged on here when we first saw the preview. ;)
Cool news to start my weekend with. I am looking forward to season 2 (fingers still cross but not the "death" cross they have been in for the past week).
Passion | May 15, 11:56 CET
TV By The Numbers is still skeptical, not surprisingly, though not as much as they had been.
As I said on Dollverse yesterday, in this case, TV By The Numbers have got it wrong.
And Nick C says: "It�s a done deal."
Nick C seems to be pretty optimistic as always.
NickC in the comments on TV By The Numbers: "Robert, go ahead and send your $10 to some charity for me. It�s a done deal.
Is B!x there yet??
The Do That Girl | May 15, 12:02 CET
Doesn't surprise me. The problem over there is that they are so wed to the understandably reliable examination of ratings trends and historical precedent that when confronted with someone making a contrary decision (especially an addmitedly surprising one), they can't quite get out of the ratings bubble blinders.
*snap*
I know Nick C has long been saying not to give up on Dollhouse, but I'll wait for a Variety or THR to post the news before rejoicing.
Since you wouldn't pull over, I went in someone's old Mountain Dew bottle back here. Hope that's okay.
I'm so glad I don't drink Mountain Dew.
It's a good site, mostly accurate, and I think Dollhouse will be the exception that proves the rules have changed. We can point at them next week, when the conventional wisdom is that Dollhouse was always a lock for renewal because Joss is just that awesome.
I wondered why my Mountain Dew was better than normal. And why I bothered getting Mountain Dew in the first place.
*SPEWWWWW*
jfhlbuffy | May 15, 12:05 CET
I needed this, not because I've been having a bad day, mind you. I'm just needy like that.
Pretty_Hate_Machine | May 15, 12:05 CET
I've always wondered where Nick C gets his info from.
I've always wondered where Nick C gets his info from
As long as it's not a message in a mountain dew bottle I think we're ok....
Eww... it still looks like Mountain Dew.
b!X's message in a bottle - the miracle cure for all your favorite cancelled shows
Are we gonna fight over Mountain Dew, 'cause that's so immature.
I really can't believe this might be happening.
stuffy | May 15, 12:11 CET
A mod needs to get some Polaroidy shots of Dollhouse characters at the top of the home page.
Would be like Amber Benson getting her one regular cast member opening credit in the episode in which Tara dies.
No wait, that's not a good comparison at all.
But still.
Brett | May 15, 12:12 CET
I really hope no one's fighting over this particular Mountain Dew.
Does this particular Mountain Dew also make an appearance in Angel. 'Cause that would mine Spike drunk your, you know, "Mountain Dew".
We need Dollhouse and Dr. Horrible polaroids. Surely this lull in posting gives the mods time to add those in. ;-)
/me doesn't want to read b!X/Spike fanf!X
You and me neither!
Ok, this thread has surely derailed. We could use something to get it back on track. Maybe some Dollhouse news???
Seriously, are we there yet???????
I could continue with my Nick C reports.
Here's one:
I think DOLLHOUSE will remain a Friday show. The idea of renewal is to say �We believe in Friday night AND DOLLHOUSE,� and we can all say it�s a silly idea, but right now today it looks like reality. We�ll just have to find out if it�s stupid. Then again there are a good 48+ hours for someone to change their mind. The Petes like Whedon though. More importantly Murdoch likes Whedon.
And two:
An interesting side note, it appears that the last episode of DOLLHOUSE was made for much less than a million dollars. It is the episode that didn�t air. I think FOX saw that and said �Joss, can you make every episode for so little?� Which means his experience with making something for the internet (that singalong blog thing) may really help. Of course others may curse his name if he pulls it off. He may set an example of quality per dollar spent that will annoy producers everywhere.
That last one is of course kinda silly. I don't see how you can produce a show like Dollhouse consistently on the budget of "Epitaph One".
IGN chimes in.
No real news, but any coverage is good, right?
At the same time, he also made Serenity for much less than other people would have made a film with that degree of scifi effects work. He does know how to work cheaper without killing quality, if he has to.
The odd low budget episode can be done with no location shots and maybe few "action" scenes, especially if you have a honking big spectacular set just sitting there, but more than a few might get rather boring.
Just like the odd "Blair Witch" film is okay but after five or ten you'd be sick to death of them.
I am sorry for derailing the thread with my mind's disturbing wanderings.
TV Guide now says "looking really good".
About that screening of "Epitaph One" going on right now:
FOX Broadcasting Corp are currently screening the unaired 13th episode of Dollhouse at their offices. End Of Show can reveal the screening is part of their upfronts preparation.
Eeeee. That's gotta be good news.
Ok, this is getting positive enough that I am fearing some kind of spike-through-the-chest moment.
That article (mine) also mentions the budget. I understand there may be an issue or two surrounding that. But the economy collapsed since the last series went into production, so.
Well, that's interesting. Maybe it's going to spin off and stay the same show at once?
dreamlogic | May 15, 12:38 CET
Yeah, maybe the reason why the Fox execs seem to really be interested in keeping Dollhouse around is because the ones who have already seen "Epitaph One" saw a lot of potential in it, like the "Can you make a series more like this episode?" type of potential.
[ edited by brinderwalt on 2009-05-15 21:40 ]
brinderwalt | May 15, 12:39 CET
For some bizarre reason I decided to watch Babylon A.D. for the last 90 minutes.
Simon | May 15, 12:40 CET
Wow, this is surreal and so awesome!
End of show has a report on how the screening of the 13th episode is part of Fox's upfronts. Looks like, even though it won't be aired (this season?) that 13th episode is pretty important after all. ;-)
[Edit: of course I was beaten to the punch posting this. You guys are generally on top of things, but I figured I'd put it up there cause I just saw it now.]
[ edited by AnotherFireflyfan on 2009-05-15 21:44 ]
[ edited by shambleau on 2009-05-15 21:43 ]
shambleau | May 15, 12:43 CET
OMG, this is KILLING ME!!!!!
And bix, ew.
Harmalicious | May 15, 12:43 CET
More from Ausiello: "The catch? Joss Whedon will have to agree to a drastically reduced budget."
Yeah, maybe the reason why the Fox execs seem to really be interested in keeping Dollhouse around is because the ones who have already seen "Epitaph One" saw a lot of potential in it, like "Can you make a series more like this episode" potential.
That would make more sense if Fox had actually aired that episode.
Does anyone think if the show ends up being renewed, that they might decide to go ahead and air Epitaph One at some point or is that definitely not ever airing no matter what?
Argh; beaten to another post. Do other people's Googles work better than mine?
Sort of like sitting at a wake. Except the corpse is refusing to just lie there, despite all those expert opinions...
Somebody please pass the jug. (No, not the Mountain Dew!)
not_Bridget | May 15, 12:47 CET
(Note to JW: Dumping that annoying Topher dude should free up at least 15K an episode. Just a thought.)
Boo, ausiello.
gchucky | May 15, 12:47 CET
Wait, I thought that last report from End of show meant it was renewed... No? O.o
maxsummers | May 15, 12:47 CET
I'm a little bit fearful for the cast. If they reduce the budget (which, yes, they are) surely they won't be able to afford everybody? If there's no Sierra and Victor, I'm outta there. They're why I watch.
So it seems to be basically a done deal as long as they can keep costs low enough. The nice thing is that if ratings can get back up to the levels they were earlier this season, or if DVD sales are high enough, I bet the budget will increase accordingly. Seems they'll just let him keep making Dollhouse as long as the cost to ratings ratio stays decent. I could see the studio potentially eating some of the cost too, depending on DVD sales.
[ edited by BigVessXpress on 2009-05-15 21:49 ]
I agree Gossi - Enver and Dichen are great, let's hope there's other ways round it.
Dollhouse is a leaf on the wind!!!
What else can they cut besides cast that would reduce the budget? I don't want to lose Vikki. (as I call him <3 )
Dumping that annoying Topher dude should free up at least 15K an episode.
No way. Topher's great. (Although I know many here disagree.) We actually saw some interesting humanity in him during Omega in his awkward conversations with Dr. Saunders.
SteveP | May 15, 12:49 CET
Two words: man reaction.
Basff | May 15, 12:52 CET
I having so much fun with the updates.
"The catch? Joss Whedon will have to agree to a drastically reduced budget."
Well, we know that JMS walked away from doing any more Babylon 5 spin-off dvds because the studio wouldn't give him enough budget. (On the one Lost Tales disc made, the lack of budget really shows, so this wasn't such a bad decision).
I can't handle it. I almost want to threaten internet blackout 09' for myself. I'm a semi-pro poker player and make my living that way, and it feels like I've wanted t shut my eyes since the flop. It's normally about now that I push all in and refuse to look but I just can't. Turn and river already!
I'll still pay attention, I can't not, but I also can't do. I just got confused.
Stargyn | May 15, 12:53 CET
Is there any reliable chatter either way yet as to whether it'd be fall or mid-season?
I had a really slow day at work. So I was constantly refreshing the news, hoping there might be some unreported tidbit about Dollhouse from yesterday, though LA was asleep. After that I went to the bars. When I came back there was a deluge of confusing but encouraging stuff. For the team, I'm going back to the bars.
Well, we know that JMS walked away from doing any more Babylon 5 spin-off dvds because the studio wouldn't give him enough budget.
As did Joss with the Spike DVD movie.
Unless they are looking at it as the equivalent of a potential pilot for a "new spin off". You have to admit, It's an intriguing possibility.
I know "Epitaph One" is slated to be on the DVD/BD releases (not quite helping my theory), but that's been known since before the end of the original show's run/bad numbers.
Update: 'of'
Can we still hold that bake sale?
I don't know how actors are paid, but if DH did something like Lost does and cycle through their actors for individual episodes, does that save money? That is, the whole ensemble cast does not appear in each episode. That'd be a bummer to the actors, I'm sure, but, then again, they'd still have jobs.
I would imagine the budget won't be as much as season one since they already have that beautiful set. And I'm willing to put money on actors taking some pay cuts.
I really hope they can keep the cast. There are just too many talented actors on the show I would hate to loose.
Michael | May 15, 12:56 CET
Actually, AFF, I didn't know that. The budgeting certainly showed on The Lost Tales, but I didn't realize it'd caused the shelving of future stories.
jclemens | May 15, 12:57 CET
One of Joss's "Top 10 Writing Tips" -- published & reported here a few months ago -- is "Cut What you Love" when a project is struggling. It'll be interesting to see what he cuts/changes in S2. Wonder what he loves with Dollhouse that might costs a lot... and therefore be a source of cost savings?
I don't think we should worry too much about the budget. Joss has definitely shown in the past that he is extremely good at working with smaller budgets if need be without sacrificing quality. The first two seasons of Buffy come to mind, as well as the fifth season of Angel. I have faith he can work it out, even if it means he might have to take a personal paycut, or even if Eliza takes one, since it's her baby as well.
Joss could start killing off characters a little sooner than planned. :-)
Hope they'll find a way to make a small budget work (given that the show gets renewed) and still keep the entire cast .
Hmm... Cut Eliza?
I too trust Joss's budgeting skills. Or, his and his team's skills.
Well, they already dropped Dominic. Also, November is gone. So the main cast is already two smaller (assuming Miracle isn't a main cast member now).
Claire / Whiskey is a recurring character. Perhaps instead of dumping cast, season 2 could just downgrade a few characters to recurring status? (Perhaps bringing back Miracle's character for an episode or two.)
(Speaking of recurring, we need to see more of Ivy. I just know Joss must have plans for her, but we barely saw her in season 1. If the show ends at this, then her inclusion was fairly pointless except for throwing suspicion off Dominic as the spy in the house of love.)
Michael Ausiello just lowered in my estimation for the suggestion of dumping Topher. Get rid of the show's best character (yeah, to the haters I say a big manly, "Whatever")? No thanks.
UnpluggedCrazy | May 15, 13:00 CET
I actually might favor a cut budget. I've always found the in-dollhouse stuff more interesting than the actual engagements. If a lower budget forces them to stay on that set, I think it could be a creative plus. But that's just me.
The Dark Shape | May 15, 13:01 CET
I can't see Victor, Sierra or Topher going. They're all relative newcomers and wouldn't be on that high a wage. After Eliza I'd guess the most expensive cast would be Tahmoh or Harry.
They could make Ballard recurring instead of a regular and have him off "looking for Alpha" and only checking in every few weeks.
But they should make Amy a regular, no matter what it costs.
As as they die very entertainingly, I'm ok with some deaths.
Sunfire | May 15, 13:01 CET
The need for cost-cutting makes me think that we're not gonna see Alpha in season 2. :(
They could take the Scrubs approach, where each actor has a few episodes off, so that they're each getting paid for, say 10 or 11 episodes, rather than the full 13.
I love you for loving Topher, UnpluggedCrazy :)
I'd love it if they kept Boyd/Harry Lennix, but he didn't get a whole lot to do in Season 1.
I like Topher the character, but not sure if the actor is pulling it off.
I agree about Amy. She truly is spectacular.
I'm willing to put money on actors taking some pay cuts.
You should give that money to the actors then :-D
Kill 'em all. Let's just watch dolls wandering around Dollhouse all season 2.. That'd be different.
I *heart* Topher and Victor. Hopefully they won't suffer early death due to budget cuts.
joni | May 15, 13:05 CET
Make it a radio show broadcast via television. That'll keep the budget down.
Of course we could see "Alpha" but not "Alan", mind swapping technology and all...
Wonder what he loves with Dollhouse that might costs a lot... and therefore be a source of cost savings?
Eliza? *ducks*
Discussing the actors just made me think Andy Hallett would have been great in Dollhouse. :/
gossi, curious: does that bit about the DVD pre-orders being considered come from someone on the inside, or from industry-watcher speculation?
I like Topher. I was actually a little surprised to see so many people getting turned off by him.
The show would never have been conceived without Eliza.
I say get rid of those lollypops! Doc Saunders has started handing them out like, well, candy!
They cost money!
Count me in as a Topher fan. He annoyed me a little in Gray Hour...but has grown on me more and more since. Especially in the last few episodes.
As mentioned earlier in the thread, Lost does something similar to that, as does Heroes. Neither of those shows have any characters that have appeared in every episode.
True, he would have been awesome in it.
I don't think that'd really work, though. The need for a great actor aside, Alpha was pretty into the whole "Don't abandon your body" thing in Omega.
Nice one, AnotherFireflyfan.
I am absolutely in love with Victor, no WAY could they get rid of him. The actor is just TOO good.
I'm doing a complete Dana Scully on this rumor going around right now... BUT... I can't help but think of a quote from Doctor Who:
"Just this once, Rose, EVERYBODY LIVES!"
John T. Folden | May 15, 13:11 CET
The budgeting certainly showed on The Lost Tales, but I didn't realize it'd caused the shelving of future stories.
From JMS (sorry for off-topic):
I'm not interested in doing any
more low-budget DVDs. I'm not interested in doing any low-budget
cable things or small computer games. The only thing I would be
interested in doing regarding Babylon 5 from this point on is a full-
featured, big-budget feature film.
It's that or nothing.
And if it's nothing, I'm totally cool with that because the original
story stands on its own just fine.
At the end of the day, for me, it's not just a matter of getting more
B5. It's a matter of getting more *good* B5 that respects what came
before it and doesn't have to compromise visually or in terms of
action. The original show deserves better than that, the surviving
cast members deserve better than that, and the fans who have supported
it over the years definitely deserve better than that. A lot better.
(See the full original post here)
On topic: it will be interesting to see how low Fox wants the budget to go, and at what point Joss will walk away in this same manner.
Well it's not like we actually saw him that much in this season either. Big bads are always better when they're not overused. Look at what having Syler in every episode of Heroes for 3 seasons has done to that show. Sometimes less is more for bad guys.
Sierra and Victor are just too amazing to cut.
I thought the getting rid of what you love was only for when the story isn't working - in budget cuts shouldn't it be the other way around?
Rachelkachel | May 15, 13:12 CET
Definitely. :(
a little pez witch | May 15, 13:12 CET
Is it not a bit rude everybody suggesting we kill off Eliza's character(s), given she bought Joss on board in the first place?
@bix, I heard somebody mention the DVD thing. I don't know how much notice they take realistically. If a retailer gets a signiciant amount of pre-orders they sometimes inform the studio for demand reasons.
Slash the costume budget. No more shirts for ex-Agent Ballard!
And we saw Victor with one costume he hasn't worn on the show. (First, program Sierra to be a Really Good Plastic Surgeon. With no more scars, his makeup would take less time.)
Harmalicious, Victor was pretty cut-up, so that's a easy way to get rid of him. The Attic. But noo. Joss wouldn't take the easy way out :O.
I hope the show gets picked up as much as the next Whedonesquer but...
If it doesn't get a renewal, does anyone here know who to speak with at Fox about buying the set? I would totally live in the Dollhouse/W&H office...and sleep in a pod. Cool.
alexreager | May 15, 13:14 CET
Most excellent suggestion, not_Bridget!
@gossi Not much ruder than any other character, I suppose?
Wasn't a Bones episode filmed on the set?
MOOOM!!!! B!x has his feet on MY side of the car! Tell him to QUIT IT!!
doubtful guest | May 15, 13:15 CET
Alpha was pretty into the whole "Don't abandon your body" thing in Omega.
For himself, yes. But he certainly didn't have any problems with kicking Wendy out of her body so he could use it.
He could happily programme bodies as kamikaze agents, who wouldn't be recognised, while he stays hidden.
Bits of one, redressed into an art gallery.
@caroline - true.
I suppose the easiest way to save money would be to go down the Veronica Mars route of cycling characters each episode. But, well... It's kinda cheesy.
While the idea of getting rid of Eliza is ridiculous. Less Echo would solve two things:
1. The budget cutback
2. Quality would go up (in my opinion) since the show works a hell lot better as an ensemble show than as an Echo show. That doesn't mean anything in regards to Eliza, it just works better.
Yes, Simon, they aired it a couple of weeks ago.
@simon I could have sworn I saw a glimpse of it in the Bones episode with the Detective from Japan.... 'The Girl in The Mask'
Even cheaper: They just all come act out each episode for me, and I describe it to people via live tweeting.
I tought I read somewhere that Joss wanted to make Dollhouse more of an ensamble show but Fox wanted it to be about Eliza?
Maybe season 2 will be more of an ensamble like? IF IT IS renewed. Don't wanna get my hopes too up (well that's too late.)
As long as you're not providing the liquid refreshments B!x.
No, I agree with gossi that it seems a bit rude to suggest that. Not only is she a producer on the show, she is just as responsible as Joss, if not more so, for the show even existing in the first place. For all intents and purposes, she could almost be called a co-creator. Suggesting, even jokingly, that she should be booted out, just seems wrong to me.
For the record, I was joking. I thought about putting in a note that I was kidding, but figured the sarcasm was obvious with the ducking and all... I love Eliza as Echo and she is essential to the show. Just kidding that she is expensive and something Joss loves about the show.
Don't poison the cast!
Better yet, abandon the costume budget entirely. Every actor/actress does the show in the nude. Hey, it'd be different. ;-)
Friday Night Lights had to do some cost cutting for Season 3 even with the DirecTV cost sharing and things worked out pretty well for that show. I'm not too worried about that and I'm fairly confident Joss wouldn't take the deal if he felt Dollhouse would be creatively compromised by whatever cost-cutting measures are being discussed.
Dirk | May 15, 13:26 CET
We brought down Fox's listener feedback line yesterday. :)
QingTing | May 15, 13:27 CET
zz9--that is really an interesting idea. All sorts of Alpha's running around...kind of like a world full of Agent Smiths. Hmmm.
And as far as suggesting to remove/lessen Eliza's role on the show, I dont think it's wrong to make a suggestion. For me, it's like I felt about Buffy; I loved all the characters but in my mind, the only person that was 100% essential, was Joss. (I always thought it would be interesting to see a BtVS episode or arc without SMG) So if it furthers the story in a necessary way, then off with her head. The mighty purple one would find a plausible way to bring her back anyway.
QingTing, I rang Fox earlier and their voicemail was still broken.
The secrets of the Dollhouse, revealed! Those lollipops are enhanced with remote mind wiping technology. They actually cost $1,000 per pop.
There are three lollipops in a jar...
mackenzie | May 15, 13:31 CET
Here's what we do!
1. kidnap Tim, Jane, Jed, Maurissa, Elizabeth, and Sarah.
2. imprint them with their own writing talents but with a strong religious belief in refusing payment for their work.
3. Rent them a nice one room apartment stocked with a whiteboard, a bunch of laptops, and boxes n boxes of ramen noodles.
4. Sit back and enjoy the show.
(ETA: of course, we'll send Jane out with "sleeper agent" show-running skills to do right by Caprica, so long as she remembers her treatments.)
[ edited by doubtful guest on 2009-05-15 22:33 ]
Isn't the cast much more expensive than the writers staff?
0.find a way to pay for the following steps.
Printy will do it for free :D
Edit: Sorry, double post. Is the site getting overrun or is it on my end?
[ edited by Pretty_Hate_Machine on 2009-05-15 22:39 ]
I think there's some overexaggeration going on as to the extent budget cuts would really affect the show. We should just trust that Joss would not agree to even work on a second season if they were intending to cut the budget so drastically that it would seriously impede on the quality of the show and/or they would have to get rid of half the cast.
On a sidenote, does anyone else find it funny that we still haven't gotten official confirmation on a renewal yet and we're already finding something new to fret and worry over? Ah, the joys of fandom!
I didn't know that, gossi. I didn't expect it to stay down for 24 hours...
0.1 Heck, looks like Alpha made his set up out of the sort of stuff you find in the dead storage of any big company. All we need is the know-how! C'mon people, fess up! surely SOMEONE on Whedonesque is secretly an evil computer-and-neuroscience genius!
doubtful guest, sounds like a new sitcom idea. 6 writers share one apartment. Hijinks ensue.
Taking away Tahmoh's current shirt budget would be about half as effective as taking away anyone else's.
Topher's?
Must say he really doesn't do anything for me.
I'm not actually worried about the budget cut issue if we get a season 2. As lots of people have already said: (1) We can trust Joss to make the call if the cut would be too severe and would significantly impede the show's quality, and (2) Joss has already proven he can make amazing television/movies/sing alongs with minimal *cheddah*. No worries :)
BUT, that being said, I'm finding it hilarious to sit around on a Friday and contemplate ways budget cuts could start cropping up on Dollhouse - like Ballard starts brown-bagging his left-over lasagna lunches ^_^
Reduced budget is sad, but I reckon Joss could make it work. Not seeing Dollhouse ever again would be sadder.
But putting it on Fridays again would just be killing the show yet again. The only chance for Dollhouse is to be on another night, with a decent lead in.
SteppeMerc | May 15, 13:46 CET
Printy could be the landlord! Should we go for the curmudgeounly Mr. Roper model or the wanna-be swinger Furley model? And if Mr. Roper, who plays Mrs. Roper?
...getting rid of the risers in the stairs must've saved 10-20 million right there!
Does any one know why Epitaph One was so inexpensive to make?
Animal Mother | May 15, 13:48 CET
It was, from what I've heard, shot on video not film and takes place entirely in the Dollhouse, no location shooting.
...and they cut Topher's juicebox budget at the last minute
Digital. They could swap to digi should they return.
Perhaps they replaced Craft Services with the Cheese Man?
If FOX renews Dollhouse we, the fans, should all do good deeds in FOX's name and twitter about it with the hashtag #dollhousegooddeeds. Who's with me?
xerox | May 15, 13:54 CET
Bring in the Green Clan to light it quick and cheap?
I hear Flip camera's are all the rage.
and what did they replace Fain services with?
It would make more sense to just keep it simply #dollhouse, so it continues to trend. Otherwise, we split out a bunch of traffic into tweets that won't get picked up on the trending list.
If FOX renews Dollhouse I suggest we send Kevin Reilly and Peter Rice a cake.
Outside of the already built Dollhouse set, every other location will be comprised of cardboard in season 2. ;-)
I really hope they don't cut off Topher or Victor T_T
maz | May 15, 13:57 CET
The cake should say:
"Thanks for bringing back Dollhouse, the news gave me a man reaction"
Regarding Eliza. She's good, but I don't see people rallying around her as they are for Saunders, Topher, Sierra, Victor, and Alpha. Politically it'll be impossible to decrease her role, but -- politics aside -- I'd consider it.
RachelKachel, you're right that his "cut what you love" comment was specifically about writing; I was stretching it to cover other aspects of the creative process. So -- as you're implying -- it may or may not actually apply here.
Wouldn't it be more appropriate to send Kevin Reilly and Peter Rice... a congratulatory Dollhouse?
Well good thing it's not a pie then!
I'm feeling pretty good about the fact that I've been the eternal irrational optimist about getting a second season. I am starting to feel really confident. Someone slap me down, quick!
I doubt we'd get it past the shipping staff. Let's not re-enact the downside of the pencils. I think it'd be rad to send a couple to the cast/crew on set though. Also I hear you know people who could maybe suggest a date and receive such a thing and thereby avoid cakes in dumpsters.
Or maybe just "congratulatory Doll"?
What? Get your minds out of the gutter, I mean a singing active of some sort. Sheesh.
Is there, at this point, any real benefit to shooting with film versus video? I know Benjamin Button wasn't film, and I couldn't tell the difference... is the only thing keeping everyone from switching over the perception that it's different, or an actual difference that I simply can't perceive?
The One True b!X Makes sense! You get a metaphorical gold star!
The cake could just have a picture of a vase with two little yellow flowers and one great big green flower in it.
ETA: or we could just send Joss and co. T-shirts that said "we played a bad hand very well"
I'll bet that Felicia Day volunteered to work craft services for free.
[ edited by mouse on 2009-05-15 23:03 ]
Let's not re-enact the downside of the pencils.
Hey, some of us enjoyed delivering those pencils!
Or rather, "trying to deliver" the pencils.
I think this is the first >200 post Whedonesque thread I've ever actually kept up with / read all of. Man it is exhausting.
Can has more Dollhouse please?
You know, even if it is renewed or not, someone should really write a book about the the production history of Dollhouse. It would really an interesting read.
crazygolfa | May 15, 14:09 CET
I'm not sure about the kidnaping idea.
Joss' basement should be very big to harbour these guys plus Alan T.
Brasilian Chaos Man | May 15, 14:11 CET
How much more awesome would this year's Comic-Con be if Dollhouse gets season 2?
m'cookies actual | May 15, 14:11 CET
I work behind the camera in the portrait/fashion photography business: believe me, it's very different (although digital is getting closer to film each year, at least in some ways).
Comic-Con would be way more awesome if I could be there.
m'cookies...I was just thinking that :)
Ahem. Printy the Friendly Chair is part of all of of Fox's U.S. affiliates' children's programming federal mandate. He's educational, and doesn't do requests.
I think that makes Printy pretentious and arrogant.
@crazygolfa - I kicked around the idea of writing a Dollhouse book a few months ago. I never did it 'cos.. Well, there are some tales best untold. But you're right, one day.
Joss, nothing you do is ever easy, is it?
[ edited by gossi on 2009-05-15 23:17 ]
brinderwalt...is your opinion on digital based purely on still photography? does the same apply with digital video in your experience? (I, like Jobo, lack a real strong insight on what the difference is in the finished product, especially if the goal is tv, though I found some comments on the BSG commentary tracks about things they could do by shooting on digital interesting).
I've tried to document most of the articles during production on the fan-run Wiki, and while it is very much work in progress (as every wiki should be) it covers a lot of ground about what happened during production, mostly in the form of quotes from cast & crew distributed over various articles.
If Printy is educational, then shouldn't Dollhouse be able to write grants for additional budget funding in support of their educational programing?
Oooh, this reminds me: I can send a Dollhouse spec into the ABC Fellowship competition this summer. Hooray! I was gonna have to resort to Supernatural otherwise.
I believe you mean "educational imprinting".
Well now I'm just getting carsick. Maybe I'll take a nap. Someone crack a window so I don't get roadtrip nap sweats.
Hmm... what if you were imprinted with your own personality - but with extra knowledge added in?
And someone named Chris over at TV by the numbers has to offer:
Fox has basically cut a deal that includes: (1)storyline changes based on conversation with whedon (2) cost outlay changes.. not sure what�s involved there. A 13-ep, mid season type order with options, depending on how fall programming goes of a move up.
ETA: LA Times also has piece up now.
B!x, next year we're leaving you behind!
I think I'm going to sleep on the backseat of this trip, hopefully we won't crash and burn before I wake up.
Am I the only one not seeing that comment at that link?
Nevermind, I see that they are messing with the comments at the moment.
TVBTN has been shaky all day/week. I can't access it now either.
Not seeing that quote either.
Yes, because, as I updated, their site is fiddling with comment functionality at the moment. ;)
Right now, I see it.
Hey, Kids! Welcome to Dollhouse Rock! during your Saturday morning cartoons!
I'm just a chair,
Yeah, I'm Printy the chair
I can imprint you without mussing your hair...
Well, now it's off to the Dollhouse
where you'll stand in a line.
with a lot of other actives
to get zapped with new minds.
And if I zap you then you'll be DOLLLLLL!
It's all in season two (see you there)
I'll be your favorite chair!
Printy Chair!
I see that they are messing with the comments at the moment.
After all their "DH is dead, deal with it" maybe they're clearing out any "Told you so" comments?
I wouldn't mind if they got rid of Kranz and Penikett's characters to save money.
Little Green Kid | May 15, 14:31 CET
electricspacegirl | May 15, 14:32 CET
I assume most of the set budget was probably the big Dollhouse proper set.
Don't see how "Epitaph One" will help make the execs interested...considering it's basically a "what if?"
John Darc | May 15, 14:33 CET
Bravo, doubtful guest.
"A 13-ep, mid season type order with options, depending on how fall programming goes of a move up."
Would that mean that it would be a replacement show? What happens if Fox doesn't cancel anything.....you can stop laughing now. But really, would it be depending on the failure of another show?
Could also mean that it gets more Eps if other shows fail.
Harmalicious, no need to worry about that. It'll air.
Before anybody freaks out over "storyline changes": don't. Wait till you hear a pitch. Does anybody else think every season of the show would be the same thing season-after-season, anyway? The answer is, of course, no.
Thanks, gossi. When do we start celebrating? Officially?
I don't think the show would be midseason (Jan/Feb). It would be a "midseason like" order of 13 eps. The guy is really just saying a 13 ep order with an option for 9 more depending on how well it does in the fall.
doubtful guest:
"Yeah, I'm Printy the chair
I can imprint you without mussing your hair..."
Hee - apparently we both agree that while having our souls sucked out by Our Friend Printy the Chair is just ducky, it would really suck if it mussed our hair while it was doing it?
BTW, we used to sing that mountain dew hill song when I was a kid, but now it's kinda tainted. Or, well, at least changed forever.
*heads to the others sitting in wayback of car.*
I call a window seat. And no pinching.
QuoterGal | May 15, 14:51 CET
It's interesting you mention that Caroline because I had the same thought on how well Andy would have fit with the show. Also if Dollhouse does come back and budget cuts must be made I will write, direct, and act in it...
That should scare Fox into a proper budget.
silent knight | May 15, 14:51 CET
Oh, I like that better!! Thanks, TamaraC!
Hmm... it'd be neat if Joss did a 13 ep arc. Then if they pick up the back 9, another 9 episode arc. That way if it gets cancelled we have a mid-season finale. ;-)
As for celebrating, I'd imagine that we officially celebrate when the network announces. We unofficially celebrate as soon as the trades say "it's a done deal".
I never would have believed it possible after the finale ratings. Still not sure I do.
Squishy | May 15, 14:54 CET
Start celebrating when one of the trades reports it's a done deal. If both trades say it, they fact check, so, go for it I say. Monday will (then) have interviews, interviews, interviews with Joss one suspects.
To be honest, though, at this stage I'd be extremely surprised if it doesn't come back. I mean, a deal has been put forward clearly for the trades to be reporting it like this.
I think Fox just saved the show.
Interesting quote from this article in TV Week:
TV�s No. 1 network is likely to kick off upfront week by announcing a new schedule marked by stability�and maybe a surprise or two.
The network�s desire for stability even extends to Friday nights, where it�s strongly considering keeping the low-rated �Dollhouse� on the air for another 13 episodes.
Whatever Fox does, however, look for the network to remain as stable as possible.
�We really tried to minimize the amount of new product we�re putting on in the fall,� Mr. Beckman said.
You mean I bought these pitchforks and flaming torches for nothing?
I'm celebrating already--don't tell anyone!
I just realised - Fox launched 3 new dramas last year, didn't it? Fringe, Lie To Me and Dollhouse? If they do pick up Dollhouse, they brought them all back.
brinderwalt...is your opinion on digital based purely on still photography?
No. My primary role is working with still photography, but since the technology behind the two mediums (still and motion) is identical, it's impossible to work in either field without having to dabble in both at some point.
does the same apply with digital video in your experience? (I, like Jobo, lack a real strong insight on what the difference is in the finished product, especially if the goal is tv, though I found some comments on the BSG commentary tracks about things they could do by shooting on digital interesting).
Digital is notorious for its lack of dynamic range. With digital, what you see is what you get. Film, on the other hand, is famous for its flexibility because its dynamic range is so much larger: There are all sorts of creative things/emergency corrections you can make with film after a frame is exposed that would be impossible to accomplish with even today's best digital equipment. It is true, though, that every generation of digital improves upon the last in narrowing the raw advantage that film has over it.
As regards what your target medium is, obviously your source only technically needs to be as high quality as your target format is capable of rendering. However, having a higher quality then necessary source can have a profoundly positive effect on the post-production process because you have a lot more leeway in how far you can manipulate/fix things without them starting to look funny.
gossi, here's hoping you're right! I'm really feeling like the show was saved. Man it's going to be strange now saying "Fox saved our show" rather than, you know, the other thing. ;-) Do we get T-shirts saying Kevin Reilly is my Master now?
"I just realised - Fox launched 3 new dramas last year, didn't it? Fringe, Lie To Me and Dollhouse? If they do pick up Dollhouse, they brought them all back."
@gossi - any idea when that happened last???
Yeah Fox will deserve a lot of love and respect from us for this, if it works out. They certainly have given it better treatment than conventional wisdom would say is necessary or even advisable.
[ edited by Squishy on 2009-05-16 00:10 ]
Fox is still evil IMO because of who they are owned by, but Kevin Reilly rocks.
Now I have the old jingle (from the 60's) for Slinky playing in my head, except the chorus part goes:
"It's Printy, it's Printy, for fun it's the best of the toys,
It's Printy, it's Printy, the favorite of girls and boys."
Click the link - then it'll happen to you, too. Muhahahahahhh!
Thanks for that explanation, brinderwalt. As a poor film student, I'm always pushing for the change to digital--it's nice to finally know why someone would ever oppose me :p
That makes me think of the Dollhouse.
Heh, meanwhile Televisionary insists it's "still a big IF".
Okay, well it looks like it's probably coming back, but I want to keep my hopes down, what's the percentage of it coming back, 70/30, 60/40, or another number?
This is now the only 300+ comment thread I've kept up with on Whedonesque. ;-) Man we really want our renewal announcement!
(What's the thread record here, anyway?)
Hehe, believe me, I've pondered the irony therein :)
What trade should I be refreshing my page on???
That's not irony. (Everyone gets that wrong.)
...thanks for the insight, brinderwalt
...how about if the shirt says "Kevin Reilly is my handler now"?
...AnotherFireflyFan, I like the idea of a pair of mini-seasons: lets the team craft the first 13 as an integral season, which, as many have noted before, is closer to the number of eps of most cable series, then lets the team do it again if things work out well, leaving us with, essentially, three short seasons by the end of May next year...This also appeals as I tend to think that, no matter what happens, its gonnna remain an uphill climb for this to be a show that survives 5,6, 7 years, so let the team max out its coolest season arc ideas while it can. (plus, kinda makes up for Season Eight of Buffy taking eleventy-billion years to play out).
ETA: m'cookies: I totally had the slinky thing going in my head earlier today....Printy, stop messing with my head!
Televisionary has hated the show from day one and has never been able to admit that he prejudged the show badly. He is just trying to reinforce his own pre-judgements. IJS
Wow, if this really happens, then all of the anti-Fox sentiment in the fandom ever since Firefly will whisk away to the winds.
What will we talk about then? :)
Seriously, I will go from I-hate-Fox to I-love-Fox if this happens. They really are putting faith in the potential of the show, and in *quality television programming.*
I seriously do not understand why the ratings fell off, because the premise of DH is so open to so much yummy narrative fun. I imagine Joss gave them a very appealing pitch in the last couple of days.
Also, this is indicative that they are putting more faith into online viewing. That says something about what Fox is projecting about the future of the industry as a whole.
There would need to be some serious promotion or critical buzz or something to change things over the summer, though. Buffy had a great summer buzz after S1 and premiered in the fall to higher ratings. Do folks think that's possible for Dollhouse? Hopefully the DVD sales (and getting friends to watch it) will have this effect. The sci-fi audience is a niche audience, but maybe we can get some mileage through that method...
Also, this never would be happening were it not for Firefly's phenomenal DVD sales demonstrating the substantial profit to be made there. *R.I.P.* *sniff*
[ edited by Ronald_SF on 2009-05-16 00:19 ]
Ronald_SF | May 15, 15:17 CET
Except, you know, it won't.
I keep hoping to pop in here and see a celebration going on. *gets bubbly ready*
korkster | May 15, 15:20 CET
We HOLD! (Oh, wait, I'm having a flashback...)
*g* @doubtful guest.
Ha! I guess you're right. But I imagine the love would flow around for a little while. We'd all be having a second honeymoon, like a couple celebrating their first anniversary. Before all the bickering starts again.
I wasn't a huge part of the fandom when Firefly aired (I didn't see an episode until two years after it was cancelled.), and I was shocked when I saw the treatment of the show by Fox. However, it seems like this regime of Fox is trying it's damnedest to keep the show, and I think that will alleviate some of the resentment towards Fox. Some, not all. I think the Fox executives should be given a kudos for actively considering to bring the show back. If it falls through, I'll be disappointed, but I won't be bitter.
So, I will be crossing my fingers, arms, legs, toes and the streams in hopes of getting this show renewed. Well, maybe not the streams, cause that would be bad.
Whoah, what happened at TVBTN?
How about how Fox should pick up another couple seasons of the aforementioned show?
Exactly what it says happened?
We'd all be having a second honeymoon, like a couple celebrating their first anniversary.
I wonder if I could take off work for that.
@wiesengard I guess they crossed the streams. Remember that would be bad. Thank god, I decided not to.
I haven't been able to see TBTN all day. What's happened to it?
NickC: "[...] the deal has been offered. If Mutant Enemy can do it for the budget requested, it�ll be official on Monday. I say it�s 95% likely, because it�s Hollywood and stuff happens."
Does that mean we are not there yet?
OK, here we go.
The ball has been offered. Will Joss kick it?
Does Nick C bring round refreshments at Fox?
Yes, who is this mysterious Nick C?
He's the mailman in a mexican wrestler dress.
Nick Cave? :P JK
We'll should hear on Monday.
Oh, pretty, pretty with whipped cream on top, please give this show a second chance. Thank you!
I hope that wasn't too over the top? Like BtVS and Angel, it takes a second season for Joss to warm-up his throwing arm. Next year, this train will get a chuggin'.
Madhatter | May 15, 15:44 CET
Whoever he is, can we hug him?
What if he's wrong/lying?
Take the money Joss! We can all chip in 5 bucks to round out the budget.
*hugs* to Nick C
A few weeks ago Nick C was saying Reilly/Rice should be fired if they renewed Dollhouse due to poor ratings. Also this morning he said the deal was done, now he's saying it's been offered.
It just occurred to me that with both Buffy and Angel, season two was my favorite. Now I know with Angel, that was largely Tim Minear, but still. Hoorah!
If they do bring it back, it seems to be part of an interesting trend of renewing shows with terrible ratings, because they can make them cheaper. I'm thinking of Friday Night Lights, and to some extent Til Death. Not sure what that means about the economics, but maybe it is influenced by the fact that advertising revenue as a whole is falling, so getting a bigger slice of a shrinking pie is no longer as important. I'm not complaining, anyway!
sojourner | May 15, 15:55 CET
He still gets a hug for bringing me hope.
*gets out 5 dollar bill*
Where do I mail this to? Is there a PayPal in the house??
Just stick it in his g-string.
Part of it is also stability sojourner. Networks need shows which they know have a certain level of fan base. A core audience which will turn up. They can't afford to have a 'big risk, huge fail' project right now due to the economy.
Maurissa is just confusing us now.
Yeah, Maurissa just tweeted "oooooooooooooweeeeeee!"
Do we think that's joy? Or just a release from the mounting tension? Or izzit it messin' with us?
Or the stubbing of a toe.
I would hope that if it were about renewal, she would have typed some words by now.
Or maybe she just hurt herself.
So, gossi, so is it fair to assume if the economy was in much better shape, and the world wasn't in a recession, the show's chances to come back would be back?
If so, huh.
Someone on Felicia's Facebook just said they heard an "announcement" that Dollhouse lives, but I took a shaker of salt with that until I see something else.
I'm trying to figure out if anything in this article from the NYT about Hulu's numbers should affect my thinking about how things like Hulu factor into our current ponderings of what financial factors are going into Fox's decision on Dollhouse. (and why couldn't they have used a photo from Eliza's commercial atop the story, durnit!)
Always wondered why they picked "G" of all letters to go with.
Seriousfully, though. Why can't fans contribute ala The Guild? It would be easier to show support for those of us who don't own a Neilson box. I mean, I guess I could buy 30 DVD box sets, but why must that be the only avenue of support (via merchandise)?
More weird Twitter stuff I can't find confirmation of.
Thanks gossi, that makes sense. Do you (or anyone) know how far in advance adverts are sold? I've often wondered why they pull shows so quickly, is it because of immediate loss of revenue, or just that they don't want to invest more in a show that networks don't think will last long term? I'm guess I'm trying to work out how much they risk on new shows.
The Guild just tweeted that Dollhouse has been renewed.
it's renewed
eta: haha, i bet that sucked to be second, gossi
[ edited by doublemeat on 2009-05-16 01:15 ]
doublemeat | May 15, 16:13 CET
Well, that's just awesome.
Need confirmation!!
I don't know who Nick C is, but he comments regularly at "TV by the numbers" and he is right about A LOT of things.
I see Nikki Finke says it's renewed. So, celebrate time?
theclynn | May 15, 16:16 CET
Really? Really really???
Lioness | May 15, 16:17 CET
So I'm guessing we're there!
Is it too soon to shout 'yaaaaaaaaayyyyyy!!!'?
Nikki Finke chips in
Somebody wake up b!X and tell him we're here.
Can I breathe now???
bloodyrockerswitch | May 15, 16:18 CET
Where's Numfar! His skills are needed!
ETA maybe if I just drizzle this Mountain Dew I found in the cupholder over b!X, he'll wake up!
WellWellWellWellWellWellWellWellWellWellWellWellWellWell
WellWellWellWellWellWellWellWellWellWellWellWellWell.
I'm gonna buy it. It's a frikkin' Almost-My-Birthday Miracle, but I'll bite.
Congratulations, and gods bless us, every one.
[ edited by Caroline on 2009-05-16 01:24 ]
I think we left B!x behind at the last stop.
QG, you broke Whedonesque!
Well. Whooda thunk it? :)
redeem147 | May 15, 16:22 CET
I thunk it.
Really? I administered a self-fandango of some sort? Should I take out some "wells" ?
You have defiantly "Overwelled" QG.
I'm English so I'll just say "Oh that's awfully nice"
Oh my gods. Woah.
druzilla | May 15, 16:25 CET
Woohoo.
I wonder who's gonna take Jane E.'s place since she's gonna be pretty busy running Caprica. Maybe Drew Goddard will be open when his Cabin duties finish.
I had a pretty good feeling about this but a good feeling is nothing compared to actual knowing.
So once again: WOOHOO!
theMidnighter | May 15, 16:25 CET
Holy crap. Are we really really here??? Renewed??? Oh man I'm so thrilled beyond words. They BETTER not announce anything differently on Monday.
Dollhouse season 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
A Hatlo hat-tip and a Deadwoodian "Huzzah!"
With respect to a second season of the show being cheaper than a brand new one because the set is already done... how does that work, then? I'm really ignorant about TV production.
Space for shooting costs, right? Do they carefully package away lots of set infrastructure and dressing, use the space for other sets in the mean time, and get stuff out when its time to shoot Season 2? And that's still significantly cheaper than brand new sets, even for something as impressive looking as the 23 Flower basement?
Oh yeah... so freakin' happy it looks renewed. (Wrote the question whilst waiting and figured I'd post it anyway...)
Anthony | May 15, 16:27 CET
I think I'm out of exclamation points.
Wait, there's one over there...
Dollhouse is renewed!
Now I want details of the pitch. Cast. I'm actually really really excited: until today, I never really thought it would make it, and didn't really think about what might happen on the show.
Can I pre-order the DVD of season 2 yet?
Anthony, lots of sets can be easily taken down and rebuilt but the Dollhouse set is a major structure, two stories, water features etc. So just building it would have been a major expense.
But now that it's paid for they won't have to spend that again for S2.
(With Angel the Hotel set was kept and redecorated as the W+H office for S5 I believe, rather than rebuild from scratch.
Is that the one with the unseen "Episode 23" on it?
This is FANTASTIC!!! I am so elated with this news!!! OMG I can't wait for the Fall! Or CC! And you can never overwell, QG! :)
This day should be marked in history. With lapel pins or something!
So the building sits empty a lot? (I mean, we're talking about thirteen episodes rather than a full length season...) Or they can make redressy use of it when shooting other shows?
[ edited by Anthony on 2009-05-16 01:37 ]
No, it's the one where Jewel Staite shows up in the last episode and carries out her evil plan to imprint everyone with the personality of Ron Glass on a bad hair day, only to be stopped at the last minute when Sean Maher and Morena Baccarin show up playing a husband and wife amway sales team. Special appearance by Summer Glau as "bride of Printy."
[ edited by Brett on 2009-05-16 02:06 ]
Apparently the set was used for a Bones episode, just redressed as an art gallery. Maybe others, as long as it was redecorated so no one would recognise it?
I suppose it comes down to simple economics. If the cost of taking down and rebuilding the set is more than they'd get for renting the set then it's cheaper to leave it up.
With the slowdown and with fewer pilots being made maybe they are happy to leave it sitting there and can manage without that building?
OMG!!! I step out for 20 min and miss the excitement!
Whoooooooohooooooo!
So happy right now. I really do have a bottle of champagne that I'm gonna pop open :P
TV by the numbers has the news up now too.
OMG, it's Nick Counter!
C. A. Bridges | May 15, 16:53 CET
Um, who is Nick Counter?
Nick Counter was the lead negotiator for the studios during the writer's strike.
YEESSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!
CAN'T STOP PARTYING!!
Ha. That crossed my mind too.
All I had to do was stay up a bit longer..... le sigh.
Anyhoo the news is just as sweet first thing in the morning. Bring on Season 2 :D
Same here. If I only could have kept my eyes open for 30 more minutes. Oh well, at least I woke up to great news.
It was incredible to wake up to this. Just incredible.
Perseo | May 16, 05:00 CET
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