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Sell The Whitehouse to Trump
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ladajo
Location: North East Coast
Re: Sell The Whitehouse to Trump
Post by ladajo » Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:30 pm
LFT is still at it. It is more and more apparent that he did not learn from Saddam that you can only force an issue to a limit before others will react adversly in a manner that leads to your own removal from the table. I tuink the next missle test now has a really high probability of being shot down.
The development of atomic power, though it could confer unimaginable blessings on mankind, is something that is dreaded by the owners of coal mines and oil wells. (Hazlitt)
What I want to do is to look up C. . . . I call him the Forgotten Man. (Sumner)
Post by JoeP » Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:01 pm
There are no good options with this Kim.
Yes, history has shown that 'containment' only works to a point. It is like trying to keep an angry crazy cat in a wet paper bag.
The nutjob thinks that he can carve out a safespace with threats. All he is actually accomplishing is making folks who would normally ignore him, or leave him be, become paranoid obsessives who will eventually (probably soon) lash out in fear.
I see the options as attack now, or shoot down a couple of missiles, then attack later. LFT is not going to stop seeking to be relevant, using his own bizarre definition. There is no containing to crazy angry cat over time.
I think we should put this one down sooner rather than later, as every day we delay raises the price. Again, history has shown...
choff
Post by choff » Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:49 pm
Maybe rather than go in with the heavy metal right from the start, try one tiny fake mosquito drone with a curare/cyanide stinger.
TDPerk
Location: Northern Shen. Valley, VA
Contact TDPerk
Post by TDPerk » Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:14 pm
Because to be secure from it, requires the destruction of the state apparatus which produced Kim, we must do that.
Killing this one man will not get it done.
montani semper liberi
para fides paternae patria
Post by choff » Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:15 am
If his replacement goes down the exact same path and also drops dead from a mosquito bite, maybe the next guy starts thinking there's a jinx on the war path.
Post by TDPerk » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:26 pm
choff wrote: If his replacement goes down the exact same path and also drops dead from a mosquito bite, maybe the next guy starts thinking there's a jinx on the war path.
And maybe the replacement decides an engineered long latency virus is the best deniable way to take us down several notches.
Between your belief that anything helps Putin is good and real, and everything that helps America is a neo-con conspiracy, I know you an invidious idiot, choff.
Post by Diogenes » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:03 pm
ladajo wrote: Yes, history has shown that 'containment' only works to a point. It is like trying to keep an angry crazy cat in a wet paper bag.
Thank you Bill Clinton. Everyone forgets what Bill Clinton did to appease the previous iteration of the little god-king that runs that place. Oh, and of course Dumbo Carter had a role in the affair.
'What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.'
— Lord Melbourne —
Post by ladajo » Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:38 pm
I think the old sayings are; "one inch equals a mile" and, <paraphrase> 'diplomacy has killed more humans than any other endeavor'.
Sometimes there is a time to talk, sometimes there isn't. Folks like these understand that the more they can string along others with good intentions, the better off they are, as they do as they wish.
Reminds me of many a despotic leader throughout history, and many recent contemporary ones. Ironically, they all believe they are untouchable and can beat the house. History shows that very few end naturally on their own terms...
I really think based on current rhetoric that the next DRPK long range launch attempt is going to be engaged. If not, we are missing an opportunity to make a blunt statement to LFT. And blunt actions are really only what these kinds of folks hear.
I would also offer that if the next launch is engaged, that a good path would be to engage the one after, AND hit the launcher (if possible, before boost.)
paperburn1
Location: Third rock from the sun.
Post by paperburn1 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:35 pm
As Chaos (Mattis)once said, If your not going to use diplomacy you better buy me a shitload of bullets.
Its rumour he is moving his missile to the coast.. A number one bad idea.
I am not a nuclear physicist, but play one on the internet.
williatw
Post by williatw » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:36 pm
How North Korea could wipe out electrical networks across the US with a high-altitude EMP blast
North Korea warns of 'super-powerful' electro-magnetic pulse attack on US
The secretive state tested a 100-kiloton thermonuclear weapon on Sunday
That would be a 'city killer' bomb, five times larger than Nagasaki atomic bomb
But detonation in the high atmosphere could create devastating EMP attack
Potential to wipe out electrical grid over virtually all of the continental US
North Korea's latest nuclear weapons test has renewed fears of a devastating electro-magnetic pulse, or EMP, attack that could wipe out electrical grids across the US.
For the first time, North Korea specifically mentioned the possibility of an EMP attack on the US following Sunday's test of a 100-kiloton weapon, which the regime claims is a thermonuclear bomb.
The weapon could wipe out much of a city, but the pulse from a high-altitude blast could sow chaos and destruction far wider.
North Korea's state news agency warned that the weapon 'is a multifunctional thermonuclear nuke with great destructive power which can be detonated even at high altitudes for super-powerful EMP attack.'
A nuclear bomb detonated 19 miles above the earth would affect Kansas and the surrounding states. One detonated at an altitude of 294 miles would affect most of the continental US. The map above shows EMP blast zones (red) of detonations at different altitudes
An EMP is a burst of high-intensity radio waves emitted from nuclear explosions in the upper atmosphere that scrambles electronics, much like a sudden power surge can overload a power outlet.
But an EMP is far, far worse. A nuclear bomb detonated high in the atmosphere could knock out the power grid across a huge swathe of the continental US.
WHAT IS A NUCLEAR EMP?
North Korea has specifically threatened an EMP attack on the US for the first time.
Nuclear blasts generate high-intensity radio waves that can disrupt electronics.
These EMP blasts travel along line-of-sight, which means the effects extend only to the visual horizon.
A powerful enough blast at an altitude of 249 miles could impact most of the continental US.
That would leave hospitals without power, civilian and government agencies unable to coordinate, and the fabric of society unraveling fast.
'I think this is the principal, the most important and dangerous, threat to the United States,' James Woolsey, former chief of the Central Intelligence Agency from 1993 to 1995, told the San Diego Union-Tribune in March.
'If you look at the electric grid and what it's susceptible to, we would be moving into a world with no food delivery, no water purification, no banking, no telecommunications, no medicine. All of these things depend on electricity in one way or another.'
The higher the bomb is detonated, the wider the EMP's range of effect.
A bomb detonated 19 miles above the center of the country would affect all of Kansas and Nebraska, almost all of South Dakota, and substantial chunks of surrounding states.
Theoretically, a sufficiently powerful bomb detonated at an altitude of 249 miles would wipe out all electronics in the US, save the southernmost top of Florida and the easternmost states - as well as affecting Canada and Mexico.
That altitude is roughly the orbit of the International Space Station and other low-Earth orbit satellites.
North Korea has already demonstrated its ability to reach this altitude with two satellite launches, in 2012 and 2016, which some experts believe were tests of an EMP launch trajectory.
'EMP is one of the small number of threats that can hold our society at risk of catastrophic consequences,' William Graham, chairman of the Commission To Assess The Threat To The US From An EMP Attack, told Congress in 2012.
'Our vulnerability is increasing daily, as our use and dependence on electronics and automated systems continues to grow.'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -grid.html
Testimony to the US Congressional EMP Commission stated that in the event of a massive EMP attack on the US using multiple high-yield warheads, around 90 per cent of the American population would be dead after 18 months due to famine, disease, and societal breakdown.
Can North Korean nukes hit US mainland? Maybe. But EMP blast threat is 'highly credible'
El Reg talks to experts on Kim's capabilities
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/2 ... ld_emp_us/
Addendum from my first link:
This would seem to indicate that said bomb would have to be detonated at the stated altitude above the center of the US...its along way from korea to just the west coast of the US; let alone the center. So the issue would be not only whether they can get it that far but presumably such a long trajectory would give us a decent shot at shooting it down first. Assuming our SDI missile defense is better than they let us know (hopefully).
Post by ladajo » Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:39 pm
EMP is more complicated, and not as big a Boogey Man as the media and talking heads paint it. They don't really understand it, so they conflate it.
And any mid-course or terminal area defense systems would get cracks at the inbound weapon(s). The "B" in Ballistic Missile makes for an interesting and well exploited vulnerability to such weapons. In any event, the farther left of terminal effects you can go, from a defensive aspect, the better. This would include left of launch options.
ladajo wrote: EMP is more complicated, and not as big a Boogey Man as the media and talking heads paint it. They don't really understand it, so they conflate it.
I think I understand why we supposedly don't have high-power laser satellites; the problem of putting large tonnages in orbit. Ground based lasers are limited by fixed location. But why not a high-powered laser (>10MW) on a ship? Like say a large naval cruiser like a 10,000 ton Ticonderoga-class cruiser retro fitted to carry high powered lasers?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ticonderoga-class_cruiser
You could add extra generator capacity and large capacitors to accommodate maybe a high powered Free-electron laser possibly with sufficient range/power to shoot down an ICBM during its long glide phase. Ship(s) could be deployed anywhere needed; after all 70% of earth's surface is ocean. East or west coast of the USA; Alaska area etc. You could have dozen(s) so equipped that have GPS linkages to aid in tracking the enemy missiles to assist in targeting as well as the ship's on board radar. Ships seem a much better place for a mobile high powered directed energy weapon than a satellite anyway; more mass/power to play around with than any practically sized foreseeable satellite would have for instance.
Certainly doable. You would have to give up other mission space.
Then you would have to invent the 10MW laser.
Bundled lasers seem to be tracking, however no one has tried that scale that I know of.
Then once you get the laser, you create an arms race where the weapons are laser hardened. This is not that hard in the scheme of things, and a whole lot cheaper than the laser. Think shiny ablative coatings, spinning vehicles, ablative dispensed chaff clouds, and so on, and so forth...
Granted, a FEL is a good tech to pursue in this regard because you can tune it. I suppose you could 'tune' a bundled laser by including variations in the bundled fibers, however it would not be nearly as adaptive as a FEL.
Left is good. More left is even better. Like hitting ball bearing factories, or oil production, or smelting plants, or ...
An interesting point is that the most active aerial bombing target for the Allies in WWII were rail yards. We spent the majority of air power on them. Low on the list were military bases. Left is good.
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