Open Thread – 11/20/2020
So I did an AMA on IndiaSpeaks. Someone is now trying to set me up with one on the "India" subreddit.
My substack is up.
My kids learned about Diwali this week and did some chalk-art from motifs they found. Kind of funny since I didn't know what "Diwali" was until I was in my 20s.
Posted on November 21, 2020 November 28, 2020 Author Razib KhanCategories Open ThreadTags Open Thread
96 thoughts on "Open Thread – 11/20/2020"
thewarlock says:
Indiaspeaks is saffron and India main reddit is super leftist. Diff in responses should be interesting
Narasingha Deva says:
I had read in another subreddit that the moderator of main India one is a canadian paki. Do you know if it's true or not. Seems strange that reddit would allow it, they should have a policy of not allowing people from other nations make another country's official subreddits.
Sumit says:
A Canadian Pakistani had got broth r/India and r/Pakistan early on.
Any one could start a subreddit as long as the name isn't taken and become the mod.
The earliest mod is head mod and can kick the other mods.
But not really this Pakistani Canadian guy fault directly as he was barely active. He had appointed some hard left Indians as r/India mods.
Who purged the subreddit of wrong-think and wrong thinking mods.
I think it's actually become more tolerant compared to before as there is an influx of regular Indians with more left-centre rather than hard left views.
Also Reddit used to be a free for all but has become much more prone to manipulation of the feed and censorship for US political stuff (in favour of left). So relatively speaking r/India is not that bad anymore.
Prats says:
I used to briefly visit that sub sometime 7-8 years ago. It used to be a pretty benign place pre-Modi.
Mostly song contests or desperate guys asking for tips to get laid or RaGa jokes.
I went there again a couple of years back and the place seemed teeming with agitprop. Pretty insufferable.
Social media in general changed around 2014.
I've mostly stopped visiting Reddit now unless via specific google results. There's too much residual teenage angst on their for my old millennial self.
Diaspora Indian says:
Yes, it is true, at least one of the moderators of r/India is a Pakistani.
yeah a NW haleem along with communist Indians run the show. The Pak subreddit is frankly no more hostile often times than the Indian one, though I did see at least *some* mixed opinions with 370.
no idea if main india reddit will let me speak. leftists are very narrow-minded on the whole. but who knows?
i don't know anything about reddit tbh
This was the real Ram Rajya all along.
IsThisReal says:
Seems strange that reddit would allow it, they should have a policy of not allowing people from other nations make another country's official subreddits
Reddit is just shit like that, stopped using it.
https://www.iafrikan.com/2020/06/08/reddit-phnompencil-cote-divoire-angola-or-the-democratic-republic-of-the-congo-eritrea/
And country subreddits such as r/India are not actually supposed to use the word "official" in the description, but they still do.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.timesofindia.com/india/rs-15l-awarded-to-man-falsely-accused-of-rape/amp_articleshow/79332955.cms
Rs 15L awarded to man falsely accused of rape
Ugra says:
@Razib
In response to a question by "Orwellisright" on the AMA – regarding the centrality/incidentality of horses, you stated that "I avoid the horse arguments". Is it due to insufficient evidence so far (either way)? Or do you think that the action of carting the Aryan migration to the horse is sophism?
Previously in the AIT vs OIT primer, Gaurav remarked that he sees the absence of horse seals and archaeological remains as an obstacle to characterizing pre-1500 BC as the Vedic Age. The problem is if we go by archaeological remains (>2% of excavated faunal remains), horses start turning up in Haryana, UP and Bihar only by 8th century BCE. Even the date of 1500 BC is not supported by the horse argument! Aryans if they entered India – it must only be in the 8th Century BCE or later! This is the final destination of the horse argument.
The OIT camp is equally vexed by the lack of explicit horse symbology in IVC seals. The one major reinforcing argument is the unicorn (65% of all Indus seals). If this was some kind of imaginary creature dreamed up for ritual purposes, then this legend never made it to modern Hinduism. Which leaves the possibility that this was a real zoological specimen now lost. Greek writers from the 5th century BC onwards while describing Indian animals believed that unicorns lived in India. This Greek obsession is the basis for all modern European mythology on unicorns and now in Silicon Valley lexicon as well. A fantastic creature that defies conventional logic!
timepaas says:
@Ugra
What you are writing is old news. Pictures of horse riders dated to OCP culture have been found by ASI in 2018.
@timepass
What pictures – pottery terracotta or other?
Hector_St_Clare says:
Unicorn stuff was probably referring to rhinoceroses? Indian rhinoceroses were much more widespread historically (all the way to the Indus valley) than they are today, and if you include Assam, the other two rhinoceros species were historically present there as well.
Absolutely not! The IVC sealmakers were unparalleled in their craft – "masterpieces of controlled realism" – Mortimer Wheeler called them! They have depicted rhinos on other seals and well…..they look exactly like rhinos.
The unicorn has been extensively talked about within Indian circles – this is one of the strangest pieces that doesn't fit at all with the functional, utilitarian personality that the IVC people express through their architecture, seals and artifacts. There is well grounded speculation that it is either a nilgai or a blackbuck – but the single horn prevents conclusion. It might have been a genetic accident between a polled and a horned cattle/antelope.
The European folk tales surrounding unicorns are remarkably similar to Ekasrnga/Rsysrnga from Mahabharata and Buddhist tales (virgins seducing/calming). And these fables continued well into the historical period.
Rhinos are depicted differently in ivc seals than "unicorn".
Maybe neelgai is a candidate (large animal not found in the seals). But it has two horns and not as prominent as in the unicorn horn in the ivc seals.
Curious to see how they'll react to a Khan that isn't fond of islam.
Just don't expect a lot of support and such if you aren't ready to call Modi/BJP/RSS fascist/nazi, that's their daily bread and butter.
All in all, I've actually seen a right-leaning sub call for justice regardless of religion (solely driven by the urge to not be like r/India).
https://m.timesofindia.com/world/us/tibetan-govt-in-exile-president-lobsong-sangay-visits-white-house-creates-history/amp_articleshow/79336881.cms
Tibetan govt-in-exile President Lobsong Sangay visits White House, creates history
NM says:
https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2020/08/04/factcheck_sidebar_factcheck_sidebar_factcheck_sidebar_factcheck_sidebar__124710.html
A closer look, however, reveals that 18 of its 20 members collaborated with or are tied to groups that have received funding from George Soros' Open Society Foundations – which is one of the most well-funded and influential progressive organizations in the country.,
Brahmoevsky
That being said, Indian traditions certainly did work their way into later expressions of Hinduism, particularly after the rise of Buddhism, and the resulting reformations the latter faith affected in the former.
Elaborate this.
Also, Views on Pashupati Mahadeva seal found in IVC excavation site.
ArainGang1
Elaborate this
Would need a proper article and research to give solid details, but briefly, its suspected (and I agree) that Buddhism and Jainism arose as a native Indian reaction against the Vedic Religion, and while the former two contained strong influences from Vedic faith, they also contained influences from native Indian religion. These faiths forced the Vedic religion/Hinduism to undergo multiple reformations to remain viable, to the point where Hinduism ended up absorbing a number of Buddhist/Jain beliefs. This process is how native Indian traditions snuck in via the backdoor to Hinduism, where they were initially excluded during the Vedic period.
I discuss the seal in my article."
Talking out his ass again. True Biradari supremacist NW haleem
Bhimrao says:
The simple test is to see how Islam treated Buddhism. If we were all to convert to Jainism tomorrow, an act to which btw I have no issues, would the 'Indus-people'(LoL) behave differently towards us and our(and their) motherland? Obviously No! they will come up with another 'nazariya' to justify their cuckiness and the assholery of 'peaceful'(lol! bigots) sufis like Amir Khusro.
@thewarlock have you been to pilgrimage in India? I have been to Dilwara in Mt. Abu when I was very young, I have seen Shikharji from inside the train many times. Will go there some day.
Europe has already committed suicide, like Samrat Ashoka Maurya whose guilt made the country embrace sissy Buddhist values, gora people can't even say what is obvious. Muslims on the other hand being accustomed to defending pedos, slavers, murderers and communal traitors will have no problem coming up with their 'narrative'.
'Euro-quomi nazariya'. The Brux-Nord bus stop in Brussels already looked worse than Mughalsarai junction.
If they had any sense they would have deported them all while there is still time.
https://www.dawn.com/news/1591612/what-the-nazis-did-to-the-jews-macron-sparks-fresh-outrage-with-new-anti-muslim-steps
btw as soon as I hear any comparison with Nazis I chuckle.
Lol. This made me laugh. Do you have any pictures?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ph7e63Zzp0Q
VijayVan says:
Have been to Brussels nord Station and stop many times. There are thousands of immigrants from Mediterranean sea North Africa or sub Sahara, they can go around EU as they please. Many of those in Brussels congregate in BNord. especially bus stop. An year back Govt closed the doors, nowadays they are confined to their quarters far away .
Brussels has mostly north Africans settled there many years 20 or 30 years and have shifted Brussels from Flemish to French speaking
iamVY says:
Once one reaches within Brussel ring expressways it is prudent to remind oneself a couple of times that they need to be alert. The sort of alertness one would expect at Mughalsarai junction as Bhimrao suggested.
Gare du Nord is epicenter of this. I already lost a bag while sitting inside a Bus at a stop when I was foolish enough to leave it unattended for 2 min as I talked to driver. Someone marked me, entered bus from outside and ran with bag within 2 mins.
Gare du Midi is even worse, and the place is crawling with pickpockets and petty crooks.
fragment_and_activities says:
> The Brux-Nord bus stop in Brussels already looked worse than Mughalsarai junction.
As a person who is from Azamgarh/Jaunpur and often travels to Varanasi/Mughalsarai(Pandit Deen Dayal Upadhyaya Nagar), I just have one thing to say – भैया चरण कहाँ हैं आप के?
J T says:
Razib you said – "Kind of funny since I didn't know what "Diwali" was until I was in my 20s."
Had you heard of Durga Pujo or Kali Pujo growing up?
Another Tambram may be in Biden cabinet: India Nooyi
https://www.businessinsider.in/international/news/indra-nooyi-may-be-in-joe-biden-cabinet-heres-a-look-at-her-take-on-some-key-issues-concerning-india-and-us/articleshow/79303469.cms
https://theprint.in/india/governance/55-of-modi-govts-top-secretaries-have-science-background-about-half-of-them-iitians/548618/?amp
55% of Modi govt's top secretaries have science background, about half of them IITians
https://scmp.com/week-asia/economics/article/3110755/chinese-imports-boom-what-happened-modis-self-reliant-india
principia says:
The extent of intra-village segregation in Karnataka is greater than the local black-white segregation in the American South that continues to influence residential patterns to this day.
https://twitter.com/MilanV/status/1330877995339411458
I finished reading the paper referenced at UPenn CASI's website and also the black-white segregation paper at Cambridge. All I can say is that the authors at UPenn CASI were making an unjustified comparison. While the tweeter was just attention-whoring.
Amminabhavi had 7 distinct groups while the American South just two. Simple mathematical sense would indicate that a random ordering of 7 groups would produce greater mixed-valence than the randomisation of just two groups. Its a concept in chemistry where a box containing more reactive compounds have the ability to exist in a greater number of stable states. Random runs will produce a lot more hypothetical states for the system with 7 variables. The authors did not consider the baked-in probabilities of a 7 card hand vs a 2 card hand.
The tweeter should probably also draw attention to the fact that Amminabhavi scores 0.55 on a scale of 0 (perfect integration) to 1 (perfect segregation) – the number implies a stability that is close to the midpoint of perfect disintegration.
Milan Todorovic says:
I did not know that my name is of Indian origin. Maybe oit is right :-)? They only need to explain the meaning of RG and will be almost there.
Interesting paper in light of demands by 'dominant' groups like Haryanvi Jats, Guj. Patels and Marathas for reservation under Affirmative Action.
http://www.cdedse.org/pdf/work268.pdf
Compares them on many metrics to Brahmins, non-Brahmin UC, OBC (other backwards caste), and SC (dalit) in their respective states.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/311442431_Dominant_or_Backward_Political_Economy_of_the_Demand_for_Quotas_by_Jats_Patels_and_Marathas
Overall it seems these groups really don't need a reservations based on socio-economic indicators.
However there are many interesting things in the data in the paper…
For eg.
1. Dalits and Brahmins cluster together in having the highest number of government jobs, ever other caste seems to lag behind
2. In Mahrahstra the Brahmins seem to do better than other UC groups in Maharashtra. In Guj it is pretty similar levels of socio economic success for Brahmins, UC-non Brahmins and Patels. (this is in line with my intuition on why anti-brahmin sentiment in Gujarat is very low)
3. Interestingly Brahmins are likely to practice untouchability in Haryana and Gujarat. compared to compared to non-brahmin UC, who in turn are more likely to practice it than Jats / Patels. Interestingly in Maharashtra this pattern doesn't exist.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BrownPundits/comments/jxsio9/razib_doing_ama_at_indiaspeaks/gdctg5z/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
hindu midwit (low-tier!) calls me 'maulvi'
tbh had to google that!
DaThang says:
IDK how the hell he arrived at an Elizabeth holmes analogy.
lol. yeah. fake? he just had no idea what he was even asking so why waste time explaining?
Reddit is a cesspit of such characters, ignore them
S Qureishi says:
Little does he know that Maulvi literally means a " learned teacher"
That person is a fool. Reddit is full of them though.
Saurav says:
https://twitter.com/UzairYounus/status/1330956295797682179
"At the heights of the Crusades, Saladin maintained diplomatic relations with the Franks.
At times he entered tactical alliances with them.
But Pakistani nationalists are bigger mujahids than the great Saladin Ayyubi and won't tolerate any diplomacy with Israel."
'Indus' people and their son of the soil examples
https://www.ndtv.com/entertainment/international-emmy-awards-2020-list-of-winners-2329251?amp=1&akamai-rum=off
International Emmy Awards 2020: Delhi Crime Wins Best Drama Series
i posted my interview with charles murray for patreons. i am planning on posting some of my substack podcasts in this order
– 1st substack subs
– 2nd, patrons for BP (mostly the nonscience stuff)
– 3rd, eventually push to the new podcast
Brown says:
is biden out jewing trump? going by the number of key appointments.
I need to read on them. I hope they aren't hardcore leftists. As long as they aren't and more moderate than the clowns like AOC, talib, omar, etc. aka the squad, it is still ok
Does anyone have a PCA chart of South Asian ethnic groups and how they are positioned in relation to Indus Valley DNA samples?
Do you mean this?
https://www.brownpundits.com/2019/11/26/some-admixture-coefficients-for-south-asian-genotype-project-members/
https://www.livemint.com/Leisure/TYwWWYXGX3L72a1psxhe3N/A-history-of-the-Agarwals.html
A history of the Agarwals
"In his book, which I referred to above, Birla writes that the Maheshwaris were descended from Kshatriyas who "decided to turn Vaishya". This claim of martial ancestry is a common thread that runs through mercantile communities, including the Khatri/Kshatriya of Punjab and the Lohana of Gujarat and Sindh. Sorry, but I also find this to be bogus. It probably comes out of the fact that Banias operate in a part of the world (north India) where silly honour is valued much more than pragmatism. And so they were forced to concoct Kshatriya ancestry for respectability, just as the great warrior Shivaji was in Maharashtra.
Kejriwal's Bansal gotra has produced some of the best business minds of this country, including young men in their 20s and 30s who without family money founded the firms Flipkart, Snapdeal and Myntra. The Economic Times reported that in 2012, "for every 100 in funding for e-commerce companies, 40 went to firms founded by an Agarwal"."
Vanias don't do this. Probably because no one will believe them 😉
justanotherlurker says:
Aakar Patel stretches the truth here and he is never the one for nuance.
Agrawals claim very distant Kshatriya status from 2500 years ago from a king called Agrasen, and more importantly don't claim descent from any present day Kshatriya groups (which is basically Rajputs in those regions). They have been high status for ever, and were part of courts of Rajput rulers, early Delhi sultans and Mughals – they don't need the Kshatriya crtuch. They continue to hugely disproportionately dominate commerce in India.
Maheswharis do claim Rajput descent but their gotras don't have any common ones with Rajputs so not sure what to make of it. I have also found Agrawal customs especially, and somewhat of Maheshwawris as well very Bania like (kind of hard to explain what this means) compared to those of Rajasthani Jains.
Rajasthani Jains do claim Rajput descent – many of their large gotras (most notably Parmar, Chauhan, Rathod, Solanki but also Sisodia, Ranawat etc..) that are predominant among Rajputs of the area..There are documents by Jain monks dating to starting from at least 1200 years ago that talk about Rajput conversions. My sense is that Rajasthani Jains are a mix of original Vaishyas and Kshatriyas/Rajputs that adopted Jainism later (but still 1000-500 years ago). But they don't harp on this to any extent – being Jain, thus out of the fold somewhat, and commercially /economically dominant in their core areas means that there was not much of a need to talk about this (unlike upwardly mobile OBCs for example). In all my years, I have only heard one or two passing references to our supposed Kshatriya /Rajput descent. Nobody cares or harps on it. And my older relatives who lived in the towns and villages of Rajasthan did seem to respect the village head Thakars (Rajput heads appointed by the king) and the Jodhpur or Mewar Maharaja but didn't seem to care about ordinary Rajputs who are generally not that economically well off. As an aside there is simmering resentment among poorer Rajputs against the upper crust of their community – the upper crust will not countenance any sort of affirmative action/reservation as that would dent their status, but the remaining 80% are seeing themselves fall farther and farther behind those that they consider lower status (even tribals such as Meena who are the biggest caste/group success story of Rajasthan).
Gujarati Vanias don't claim Rajput status, but you have to understand that Rajputs (or Bapus as they area called) are not particularly esteemed in Gujarat proper (Saurashtra may be different) – these folks lost in the 13th century and never recovered from that defeat. Vanias on other hand (mostly Jains before the16th century, and then Jains and Vaishnavs after the Valllabhacharya conversions) have been culturally and economically dominant for 800+ years. They have set the tone on cultural norms (vegetarianism), built the most magnificent temples and are aspirational for all communities in Gujarat. Brahmins and Rajputs have been sideshows in Gujarat for a long time. This is a point that Aakar Patel also acknowledges
Bro i am just amazed that you folks (Banias, Agarwals, Maheshwaris, Jains etc) have THAT many stratification, despite being a small group. For rest of us you folks are all baniyas, irrespective of ur different surnames and religion.
"As an aside there is simmering resentment among poorer Rajputs against the upper crust of their community – the upper crust will not countenance any sort of affirmative action/reservation as that would dent their status, but the remaining 80% are seeing themselves fall farther and farther behind those that they consider lower status (even tribals such as Meena who are the biggest caste/group success story of Rajasthan)."
Meenas being tribal is a cruel joke on actual tribals.
https://www.jpost.com/opinion/from-jodhpur-to-haifa-representations-of-hero-of-haifa-dalpat-singh-568224
"'Hero of Haifa' had a caste too
Caste, the system of dividing society into hereditary classes, matters a lot in the Indian context. There is a caste dimension to the "Hero of Haifa" as well. Dalpat Singh was born into the caste of Ravana-Rajput, popularly known as Darogas, in Rajasthan. The Ravana-Rajput caste does not belong to the elite Rajput caste (the second highest caste in Hinduism) as often mistakenly understood. The Ravana-Rajput caste is part of the "Other Backward Classes" for the sake of affirmative support by the state, as it is one of the marginalized and subjugated castes in Rajasthan. It constitutes 7% of the total population of Rajas- than of around 70 million. His caste-community, the Ravana-Rajput Samaj, is also out there to claim his legacy, albeit differently than the official representation mentioned above."
Vikram says:
Vania entrepreneurship still has limitations, it is more about more efficient operation of existing markets than creating new ones. In frontier areas like biotech, they are rather absent. They are not an innovative entrepreneurial class, just an effective one.
All the entrepreneurs in the below video showcasing some top biotech startups in India are Bengali or Tamil/Kannadiga,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ovJYtcFefg
Here is a quote from one of the entrepreneurs whose startup has received nearly $ 50 million in funding,
"As a Tam-Bram family the focus while growing up was that of academia — so it still stings me that I don't have a Ph.D"
https://yourstory.com/2014/05/kavitha-iyer-serial-entrepreneur
Some truth to this. But it is changing. Just my American perspective: I have a few cousins right in the mix in Silicon Valley. But yeah, even culturally even in America, most I know opt for medicine or high finance (IB, VC, PE). Medicine because that is just what all Indians do for a safe job and some sort of entrepreneurship in a pretty protected market (this has changed a lot with the decline of private practice, but there is still room room). And high finance because of the cultural promotion of the job. But yeah overall, there are fewer among them proportionally who go into tech like the Bengali and Tam Brahm communities.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naveen_Jain
Example of a popular jain one in tech
Naveen Jain has (one of?) the largest private meteorite collections in the world. I met him briefly at a robotics conference a few years ago. He spoke with confidence but had absolutely no clue (literally zero understanding) about what he was talking, ladies(of all ages) seemed to love him, almost like a swadesi Tony Stark. He is a very lucky dot-com millionaire who did a lot of usual Rajat Gupta-esque shady business practices. But then who am I to say anything? his net worth is 100K times mine.
A lot of the IIT toppers in recent years have been Agarwals, so maybe the future will see an intersection of technology and business in the kind of entrepreneurship we see in India.
the birdari gang likes to make accusations of brahmin-bania hegemony for a reason. granted, the bragging about khatri punjabiyat and its representation in all fields is strong in these largely dick measuring discussions
Dont care if its Khatris/Banias/Brahmins whatever just want Indians to innovate and develop an entrepreneurial culture.
Right now, second tier Chinese video apps like 'Snack Video' are beating out our own products.
A fair article on Bihar by an honest Bihari progressive Muslim. I wish more outsiders read this and understand the limits of social justice.
A migrant reflects on a state and a leader diminished: The new Republic of Bihar
https://www.nationalheraldindia.com/opinion/a-migrant-reflects-on-a-state-and-a-leader-diminished-the-new-republic-of-bihar
"I spent my next five years or so working as a journalist for The Times of India in Delhi, and had many occasions to come back to Bihar, though I never covered it professionally in this new position. On every visit, I could see the mood in my family taking a more sombre turn. As a family of professionals, law and order was a significant matter for them, and by the mid-1990s, they – like many other middleclass families – no longer felt safe going out after dark.
At first, I, like many others, dismissed this as an over-reaction to a politics of social justice. There was an element of truth in it. But it was not the main truth. The law and order situation had clearly deteriorated in Bihar. By the end of the decade, when I left India for Denmark, even I had to concede it."
" I wish more outsiders read this and understand the limits of social justice."
What, No abolish the police ? What will my woke folks from Delhi and Mumbai tweet abt ?
Ali Choudhury says:
Trans rights and their pronouns.
They should go to Bihar and live without Starbucks for a few days.
Prats:
In the mid-90s, I had a neighbor, a young CA who had moved from Patna to Ahmedabad for work. I remember being rather amused by how he impressed he was with the city and the rural areas surrounding it. It was as if he was comparing Gujarat's America to Bihar's – 80s India. Keep in mind that this was just a couple years into Rao's liberalization so it's not like the city had transformed to the degree that it has now. That is when it struck me how poor Bihar was even by India's very low mid-90s standards.
Another anecdote: Relatives have been doing tirth yatra to Sammet Shikhar in Jharkhand (used to be in undivided Bihar) for decades and even the ones that went in the 60s would sadly express their shcok at how poor the people the area were (something about them running after yatris for small bags of rice or something like that)..I suppose these were Jharkhandi tribals but still..And again, my relatives had mostly only seen Rajasthan and Mumbai in the 60s and yet the poverty in the area was shocking to them. I have seen rural Rajasthan and there is no visible desperation or wrenching poverty despite the relative backwardness of the place.
Bihari politicians and people need to up their game. That place has so much history and present day talent – needs the right policies and intent/will to bring it up to Indian standards.
Till the late 90s even the badlands of UP AKA Eastern UP would seem prosperous, wrt Bihar, and used to refer Bihar as some sort of wild west
Also on Gujrat infra and all, why only 90s, my friends who did their internship in Adani and Reliance (around late 2000s) were genuinely amazed that the Govt actually builds Infra to get Companies to move there. In UP its actually the other way round where Companies are expected to 'take care' of the rural surroundings and the local bureaucracy.
Finally on the tribal region poverty, my dad had a govt job which required us to travel to exactly these areas, and i feel folks haven't seen poverty and destitution till they have visited those places. It soul crushing.
justanotherlurker
I understand where they were coming from.
I spent most of my early childhood in Gujarat before moving to Bihar for middle school. The difference in infra quality was quite apparent.
One of Lalu's famous statements when asked about the condition of roads was:
"Sadak to Baleno chalane walon ko chahiye. Hum to bhains chalate hain"
In the mid-90s, people in Gujarat were not even aware of Patna. Some folks in Surat would ask my dad if we were going to 'Kalkatta' for summer vacation.
By the late 90s, Bihar had got more in news because of Lalu. I remember one a kind neighbourly lady in Anand asked us if people were really murdered for stepping outside the house. I was a kid so I got all scared. I asked my mom if it was possible to arrange for a helicopter to drop us directly at our grandparent's house. Lol.
Btw if you go even further before the 60s in the early 20th century before the region around Kheda was developed by Patels, there used to be a small trickle of people going from Gujarat to Bihar for industrial work.
There was a carpenter who used to come to our place in Patna whose family had moved from Gujarat some 3-4 generations ago.
https://theprint.in/opinion/ahmed-patel-death-biggest-political-event-of-2020/551849/
Ahmed Patel's death is the biggest political event of 2020
Where we are up to?
First to conclude that OIT (at least those affiliated with BP) CANNOT answer the meaning of the words – RG VEDA. In our linguistic discussion we came to the 'linguistic DNA' where we can really see the meaning of some words, where they originated, where the 'proto-Sanskrit' came from. It is pretty shame because OIT all their arguments draw from Vedas (and astronomy) but they don't know (or they are afraid to tell) the meaning of the title. Instead, they try to play with non-existent constructs without any meanings such as '(Proto)Indo-European' where we don't know anything – is there one or more languages, where, when and by whom they originated. It is not strange that this empty shell cannot be resolved for hundreds of years.
We will continue with our linguistic discussion before we move on mythology and toponyms. Just to remind what is on our To Do list: the meaning of RG (I already explained 'Veda'), PIR (Serbian word taken by 'ancient Greeks' and now present in many world languages), (S)RB, Knowledge Zero, plus we will add Minoan civilization for ful moronic level. We took away from the list – DUMBAS (who was Alexander Karanovic) and Slavic migration in the 7.cAC, so these things even autistic morons do not repeat anymore. Speaking about Slavics, it is needed for morons to repeat that Slavic is still the largest group in Europe spreading from Germany till Kamchatka. It is universally agreed that they were Aryans who came to SAsia, Iran, China, Tibet, up to Golf and Japan. The term 'Slavic' is fairly recent term (7th cAC) and their previous name was, based on the language they spoke, Serbians. Apart from this common language (and genetics), these tribes were known by 750 (!) different names. Modern Serbian nation is a small segment of ancient Serbian speaking tribes which preserved the same ancient name, historic vertical and memory.
So, what is the case with [email protected]?
It seems that OIT finally conceded because their name became meaningless. They were sliding to lunacy and some extremes to primitivity and moronism. We have a thread 'How much "steppe" ancestry is there in South Asia?' Until recently they asserted that no such thing as 'steppe' existed at all. However, many (except extreme anonymous morons) realized the lunacy of such assertion. Otherwise, to preserve consistency, they should be calling Razib – outright, liar, duplicitous, fraudster, deceitful, because he calculated that 16% i.e. 220 millions of SA people are Aryans' descendants. It means that is nothing OUT there of India (except Roma in 9 cAC and maybe couple lost elephants). I told before that was not happy seeing them sliding to lunacy and I am glad now that some started to shift their paradigm toward common sense.
But, now the trend is to not negate the existence of gene donors but their arrival had to be backdated before 2800BC or put forward after 1000BC, definitely to remain out of Vedic period. Their name is not Aryans anymore, they are now Yonas or even using the old meaningless term – 'grasslanders'. And they came to be kshatriya mercenaries and cavalry (to whom?), absolutely having nothing common with brahmins. And they married shudra girls 'at will' (!) (not rapings anymore?). Some say that Sanskrit was indigenous to SA while other, seeing that this is not attenable, practice gymnastics that newly arrived brought Sanskrit which locals took from them and without their involvement, behind their back, produced all Vedas. It would be interesting to see the further development. We are slowly pushing the envelope in spite of anonymous fulmorons. I remember some oit-gentlemen with whom I had disagreements (mmk for e.g.) who would be ashamed of such ful-primitivity which compromise their ethical and scientific standings.
fulto says:
1. "Perhaps a lunatic was simply a minority of one. At one time it had been a sign of madness to believe that the Earth goes round the Sun; today, to believe the past is inalterable. He might be alone in holding that belief, and if alone, then a lunatic. But the thought of being a lunatic did not greatly trouble him; the horror was that he might also be wrong."
― George Orwell, 1984
2. "A man told me that my thoughts are opinions, so I asked back if he knows the difference between facts and opinions. He couldn't differentiate them. And I had to conclude I was talking with an arrogant lunatic. He did admit to be arrogant, but the conversation was over before I could prove him lunatic as well."
― Robin Sacredfire
Bye Bye; had enough playing with @Milan Todorovic; it was fun while it lasted.
Another day, another lie by @Milan Todorovic, and its busting:
ADNA has conclusively proven that Harappan ancestry is found both in Mesopotamia (mtDNA found) and Turan. Since we don't have samples from IVC — except 1 female — nobody *who deals with facts* will assert more than this; however, we do know that Iran_N/CHG ancestry is found in every IE group including Harappa.
Adieu to today's lie.
Interesting comments from chief Indian Haleem leader
https://www.deccanchronicle.com/nation/current-affairs/241120/we-rejected-jinnah-no-pakistanis-live-in-old-city-owaisi.html
Last greetings to a great Serbian friend, diego el dio maradona!
Бог да му душу прости. Амин.
https://twitter.com/dubeyamitabh/status/1331865090589528064
India's opposition (still) thinks it can out-nationalism Modi. Just like it thinks it can out-Hindu, BJP.
The recent rise of Bollywood movies and TV shows on mythical ability of India's covert forces, has now found its way into real life acceptance. LOL
https://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/narendra-modi-amit-shah-jugalbandi-the-bjp-before-modi-book-7064344/lite/
The power of two: Modi and Shah are the latest in a long line of jugalbandis in BJP
siv says:
I am skeptical that the majority of the india subreddit is really indian. Maybe they are NRIs or something, because the traffic ranking on alexa is near 0. There are a lot of trolls on reddit. And ever since Modi was elected the atmosphere has been very different. I browse it infrequently, and the media coverage of south asia is overwhelmingly negative (articles on rape, religious violence, racism etc.) Both india and china get a lot of shit on that website. Strangely iran escapes all criticism..
Thoughts on this article (and blog) about the history of yoga?
https://jfdeters.wordpress.com/2014/06/18/the-myth-of-yoga/
Another classic "Hinduism was born in the 19th century" type-
http://medium.com/@prateek.sanjay
Although he retweeted Razib and Omar bhai. Is this guy on BP?
That dude mostly posts edge-lord stuff. I don't think he himself believes most of the things he writes about but it does rile up some people.
There might be an element of self-loathing, though I don't know enough to do any kind of psychoanalyzing.
I envy the free time they have on their hands.
https://swarajyamag.com/politics/how-pakistani-films-aggressively-promote-conversion-of-hindu-women-through-interfaith-love-stories
Lmao at those movies. Peak insecurity.
I used to think that we caricaturize Pakistanis with all this Janab, Shanab a lot in our Bollywood movies, till i came across Hindus in Pakistani movies/shows. Its not even close.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1cyfrPDeGg
Dhume is predictably slamming the 'Love Jihad' crackdown.
More generally, I doubt Team Biden will be able to transform India and put RaGa in charge as many of them wish deep down. How are they going to deal with an India that is no longer willing to live a pathetic hand-me-down version of a foreign imposed value system anymore? India is needed as a counter against China, after all.
4 broad teams I see playing in Indian history discussions online:
Team Hindutva: Everything is Indian, Hinduism and the Vedas were born in India, Muslims are to blame for all strife. Hindus are tolerant.
Team Secular: Nothing is Indian, Hinduism and the Vedas are alien to India, Hindus (esp. UC) are to blame for all strife. Muslims are tolerant.
Team Pakistaniat: Everything is Pakistani. Pakistanis were never Hindus. Gangastanis are to blame for all strife. Death to Israel. Muslims are tolerant.
Team Sidhu Moosewala: Everything is Jatt. Jatts were never Indian. Jatts are to be credited for all strife and warfare. Tolerance is overrated, jatt steppe % is underrated.
There are probably a few other teams like team Dravida Nadu, or Trad Muslim or some Goan Catholic who thinks colonization was great or something. But these are the ones I see most often
Team Secular: Is even India , Indian though? Or is it a post 2014 BJP's hoax.
What group am I in? None of those fit neatly for me
https://www.reddit.com/r/pakistan/comments/jy5qh9/i_coded_pakistan_into_victoria_2/
The dreams are amazing lol
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2261018-double-climate-disaster-may-have-ended-ancient-harappan-civilisation/
Double climate disaster may have ended ancient Harappan civilisation
https://www.thebetterindia.com/243081/aquaponics-hydroponics-how-to-grow-pisciculture-farming-chennai-tech-iot-software-agriculture-ecofriendly-sustainable-freshry-anj135/amp/
Engineer Returns from US to Start Aquaponics Farm, Grows 4 Tonnes of Veggies/Month
The Australien Government just released this advert about the proposed Carmichael Coal Mine and it's surprisingly honest and informative.
Honest Government Ad | Adani Coal Mine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_C8S4Bz91M
Razib perhaps this subreddit would be interested in an AMA.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ABCDesis/
have seen some 23&me ancestry discussions there before. It's pretty active.
India"s farmers are on the streets, while india"s " where are the modi reforms" – wallahs are hiding in their basements of economic times, so that they can resurface again with their "manmohan Singh, the economist" line again in summer.
Janamejaya says:
Totally true.
Absolutely none of the liberal, globe-trotting economist types who write numerous columns prescribing reforms and open-ness in the Indian economy are coming out in support of the Modi govt. against a dominant caste group in Punjab who have held the nation hostage to their short-term economic interests for decades.
These so called Punjabi "farmers" had a great thing going for years. Subsidized electricity to pump out ground water, subsidized fertilizers, cheap Bihari labour to work the fields, assured govt. procurement of produce at pre-fixed prices. Basically full freedom to deplete ground water by growing crops unsuited to the local weather and then burning stubble to envelop all of North India under horrid smoke for months. And then they turn around and start claiming that "Delhi is giving them step-motherly treatment".
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