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Archive: 2020 Off-Season and Regular Season Transactions
Open Discussion: Week of July 22, 2018
July 23, 2018 Weekly Discussionjimpeyton19
Well, the Phillies lost the Machado sweepstakes. Oh well, maybe we can sign him during the off season for just money. Until then. we have the opportunity to use the prospects we saved, as well as others, to go after some of our other needs. And if we do sign Machado this winter, he won't cost a draft pick and international money.
The Phillies opened the second half with a series win over the Padres. That opened their lead over the Braves to a full game. They face the Dodgers this week and have lined up their rotation so that they face our three best – Eflin, Nola, and Arrieta. I hope the fans have the good sense to not boo Machado.
One last thought on Machado. It was reported that the Orioles wanted young, controllable pitchers in return. That's why a lot of us and a lot of industry types thought that the Phillies had the ability to provide the Orioles with the best package. I think the Orioles were mesmerized at the last minute by the Dodgers' inclusion of Diaz. They accepted lesser pitching prospects than the ones I heard the Phillies were willing to part with. Oh well, I can't help but think that the Orioles found a way to lose the trade. But, I'm biased.
And now a some other stuff.
A couple weeks ago we had a trolling problem on Phuture Phillies. I won't go into the specific actions by the perpetrator again. I received a lot of suggestions and appreciate the responses. As you may have noticed, I decided to do nothing, but watch and wait. This week, Rocco provided the following apology. It was posted as a response to a Romus comment.
"Romus my next six post will be as j. then 6 as tim , I just like to say this to everyone. it was a joke and I guess I pissed off people. Which I really never intended to do. I Really never heard of trolling. believe it or not. So if I crossed the line I am sorry. I just like to have fun, but sometimes I do cross the line."
Personally, I think the apology is weak. It should have been posted as a separate comment to the entire group, especially the people he indirectly hurt. Also, I find the 13 word introduction to be tasteless, and it causes me to question his sincerity.
However, some people just don't know how to apologize. I will continue to monitor all comments with special attention to Rocco. A similar abuse will be handled with finality. I have started to, and will continue to delete his non-baseball comments.
← Clearwater Threshers Recap – 7/22/2018	Clearwater Threshers Recap – 7/23/2018 →
488 thoughts on "Open Discussion: Week of July 22, 2018"
8mark says:
With Altherr and Leiter demoted, I'm wondering if these moves are a precursor to a trade. Of course, Quinn is a logical replacement for AA, at least immediately. But a bat (at least one) is absolutely needed. This offense is a flat line with an occasional blip. It won't sustain a 1st place club no matter how much the starting rotation fares.
The need for a seasoned SP, preferably a lefty, also can't be an understated as Pivetta would be more effective out of the bullpen. Plus we've been fortunate with no major injuries to the rotation so far.
Murray says:
Eflin comes off the DL and Leiter was the extra player for a double header, that's it no other moves. The bench will be Walding (0-10 with 9 Ks), Pflouffe, Valentin, and Knapp. It has to be the weakest bench ever.
Eagleye5 says:
Leiter was not the extra player, Rios was. Leiter for Eflin is a move that becomes offcial today, also Will Myers HR off Leiter may have left him with PTSD. AA to AAA is needed but who comes up is a mystery, I could see it being Quinn because our bench was better when we were a last place team then it is today.
But Rios is staying obviously.
NL says:
All I can say is thank God a thousand times the Machado trade didn't happen. Some of the proposals I saw here were nuts. Sure he is great. He is also a 2.5 month rental. I want the Phillies to play the long game. I want a great organization for years. I don't want to chase rainbows on a yearly basis.
Mainerob says:
Count me among the disappointed Philly fans who craved Machado's bat (see below). As I have written elsewhere, except for the infamous Von Hayes 5-1 trade and possibly a handful of other exceptions, the team getting the star for prospects is the winner. The teams desperately needs a reliable bat in the middle of the order and Machado was the man. Few prospects are sure things. Who is to say that Sixto Sanchez is a guaranteed success? "We overvalue our own" is a common theme.
I will go out on a limb and state again that losing Machado either to the Yankees or Dodgers would be the deathknell of getting him to the Phillies. Yes, I hear that he wants to stay on the East Coast, blah, blah, blah, but he will get caught up in the La La Land of LA and may even sign for less than his full value. Yes, I know that Seager is out for the season and will come back next year, but having an embarrassment of riches only makes the rich richer. Oh, well.
While I was certainly disappointed Machado won't be wearing a Phillies jersey this year, the Orioles simply chose another offer. Without knowing our offer (or the future nonetheless), how can you be sure that the side with Machado (the star) is the winner?
Teams would be much more aggressive as they'd "win" the deal and gain a big edge on their competitors. The future with Sixto is not guaranteed, but do you really think this team+ Machado is a lock for the World Series? We definitely need to improve the lineup, but MVP caliber bats fall short in playoffs as much as "prospects" bust. If we make a run, our formula would look a lot more like the 2015 Royals than the 2017 Astros. #BeBold
RAEF715 says:
part of me wonders if the Orioles were actually swayed by Diaz' two homer futures game.
from the Dodgers perspective, Manny can put them over the top this year, while Diaz might never be a starter for them, or they can easily in the future pay for a free agent who can be as good or better than Diaz- they could have raised their offer if the Orioles deemed the Phils offer better anyway.
roccom says:
I just cant stand to watch base loaded, no outs and we cant score. Kingery has to learn with his speed to just put the ball in play. omg he swings at so many bat pitches, and Alfaro just plain cant hit. To watch Kingery, Alfaro and the pitcher is like the old day. Dalrymple 235 ,322 obp , wine 215 career hitter, minus 2.4 war and a 275 obp and the pitcher.
I couldn't agree more. I was so incensed with the bottom of the 8th that I almost had to take it out on a wall. Kingery was pitiful, Alfaro awful, swinging at two straight pitches that almost hit him, and Knapp just got caught up in the hilarity. Earlier, of course, one of the worst 0-2 hitters when he's on the downside, Herrera, couldn't reach a pitch over his head for strike three.
This offense is unwatchable and makes this outlier season less enjoyable to watch.
SWFL Frank says:
The Phillies are getting what should have been expected of Alfaro and Knapp, relying on two young guys who have holes to fill offensively and defensively. Perhaps one of the things the Phillies should look for in the off-season is a veteran catcher who can hit at least a little. Then Alfaro or Knapp can be brought along less painfully for the team as a whole.
allentown1 says:
Knapp and Alfaro aren't the problem, so I wouldn't get a catcher, apart from a vet to be in AAA as the injury reserve. The offensive problem has been mainly Kingery. He isn't ready. His July stats have been awful, after a glimmer of hope in June. A .555 OPS in July — small sample size for future prediction, but a 100% sample of what he has actually contributed to the team this — has really hurt our offense. He also has speed as one of his key skills, but has been a nonfactor on the bases. If the team wants him to be a SS, then he should be learning in AAA. His D isn't good at SS.
I was at last night's game and had to watch Walding, Alfaro, Valetien, Kingery, and the P…….luckily the Padres are horrible and Vinny V was dealing like it was April 2016.
catch22hman says:
First, you're not imagining this – the Phillies put guys on base at the top of line-up and can't drive them in at the bottom. On the one hand, it's a big problem, on the other hand, it means that adding even an average-ish bat before the trade deadline could be a big upgrade. I prefer to look at the silver lining here – they are not far off from scoring a lot more runs.
Second, while you're right about Kingery's struggles, can we give the kid a little break? He has a lot of upside, but it could take a while. Just because he's not doing great now, doesn't mean he doesn't have it in him. What it does or should mean, however, is that he should get fewer ABs (or spend a little more time in the minors – which actually couldn't hurt), until he makes the needed adjustments. Believe it or not, this team really misses Pedro Florimon, who turned himself into a darn useful player. I have little doubt that, when healthy, Florimon is their best SS right now. He probably won't be in a year and a half, but right now he is. Although his ABs have been limited, his hitting alone has been well above league average for two years and I don't think it's entirely a fluke. He can hit and he can field and he has positional flexibilty.
This is not a knock on Kingery's future potential, but he is not a SS and his bat and base stealing are not MLB ready.
I don't know if this is where I should respond to jim First I joked with romus about posting a j in a separate post. Second I don't know what you think is the big crime to post as someone as a joke. It wasn't me posting and saying bad things or cursing. Jim I find your comments out of line. I said I was wrong , and you can believe me or not I never heard the term trolling on a site. I am not computer guy so maybe that's why. This is you site and if you want I will leave, its your call. but I wont be told I don't know how to Say i was wrong. I don't know what you think I did that was so bad I should get down on my knees and say I am sorry. Who did I hurt.? It was a joke taken too far I know that, but your comments make it sound like I am a heartless person who hurt people and didn't know how to make it right. your call jim block better yet good bye
Bergeraj says:
You just proved him right though with more insensitive comments. You were out of line from the start and although you say your sorry it's hard to take an apology seriously when you joke about it. Now your angry because your getting called out on your antics.
infrequent poster says:
I think it's fair to have called rocco/tim out, especially if he did hurt other people, but let's not turn this into one of those internet hive mind type witch hunts. He tried to apologize and if he messes up again, then more severe action will be taken. Que sera, sera. This is still a baseball site, first and foremost.
if mlb ran this site, they would order roccom to attend sensitivity training
fritzerland says:
I wish we still had the thumbs so I could +1 this comment
And here we have Rocco doubling-down on stupid….
Lord Felagund says:
Wait, Roccom and Tim are the same person?
Timothy Costello says:
In 1 word no.
bak425 says:
Dude, stealing another poster's screen name and impersonating that poster is a rotten thing to do. It isn't funny and is a really crappy "joke". Fundamentally, you don't seem to grasp that.
fighterflea says:
roccom, you actually think Jim was out of line? I think you're saying this is not your place to be and, though I didn't feel this way before, I've come to think you're right. This board isn't your place to be. You have a tin ear, or bad antenna. Jim gave you a reprieve and you threw it in his face. Good riddance.
Roc, first of all – humility goes a long way in repairing what needs to be fixed between opposing parties. We all have different personalities, different senses of humor, different sensitivities. Your aggressive and largely negative posts leave looking you looking like the angry old man who longs for the good old days. If those days ever existed at all, they are certainly gone now. Jim has been an objective bystander in overseeing this site, and when he must intervene to protect its integrity, none of us have the right to question his actions. Regardless of how much we disagree, this is baseball. It's not a forum to vent frustrations born from bitterness.
As for Machado, I wanted him, no question. However, the Dodgers traded a guy they paid $15M to sign only a few years ago. Think about that, it's crazy. That's a big overpay for a two month rental. I respect the Dodgers for having the guts to make that deal but anything short of a title will feel like they made a mistake. Sometimes you have to draw a line and stop and the Phils did. Medina's performance the other night would have made us all sick if he had done it as an Oriole prospect.
Some moves are coming soon, there's no way they can leave the bench as it is now plus they need another arm or two in the pen. The fallback plan will be getting a starter, pushing Pivetta to the pen.
Romus says:
Manny will probably like the LA lifestyle and the Dodgers pennant run….dreamed of wearing the Yankee pinstripes as a kid….but still likes $$$$.
Both Dodgers and Yankees are up against the lux tax threshold.
So Phillies should offer Manny a ridiculous amount…..7yrs@$287M.
Then let the chips fall where they may.
Dodgers and Yankees will have to come close to that amount….and it will hurt their financial constraints.
"…..The fallback plan will be getting a starter, pushing Pivetta to the pen"….perhaps JA Happ is someone they can target.
A lefty in the rotation works well between Nola and Arrieta…..and can be more effective in the post-season when the LHBs are better.
Manny's deal with be in the 10-12 year range with at least two opt periods, perhaps three. He will definitely get in excess of $35 million AAV and perhaps $40 million or more per year AAV. I'm thinking 12 years in the $450-500 million range with opt outs after years 2, 4 and 7. This guy is going to get PAID.
Only a few teams will be able to meet that long term commitment of 12yrs/$500M.
And not sure the Dodgers/Yankees/Sox/Angels and Cubs will want to blow pass their financial constraints and incur the penalties under the lux tax threshold.
And each of those teams have high dollar stars already on their payroll….and pending high-dollar pay out stars.
Then whoever signs Harper …may also have to think twice .
Phillies would seem to be in the best position since both Arrieta and Santana will only have two years left on their contracts.
Hoskins and Nola will get their arb years bought out I a sure, but that should not make it that much more difficult to offer Manny a lucrative contract.
Romus, I can definitely see the LAA being a player in the MM sweepstakes, Owner who loves writing checks for the shiny new toy (hello Albert Pujols) and a need to keep his superstar CF interested in staying in LA.
Rick……it may be either Manny or Mike….not sure he can keep both
Then there will be Ohtani at some point..
The Guru says:
If I'm Nola's agent, I'm counting the dollar signs. There's no way Nola is getting his arbitration years bought out unless I get a VERY lucrative deal (like when the Giants tried to buy out Lincecum).
I'm almost certain he signs longterm this off season. Or at least the FO pursues it. He should get a deal approaching $200M over 7-8 years. Perhaps more?
@8mark, there's a difference between buying out arbitration years, and giving a crazy deal to a pitcher who is nowhere close to FA. The team buys out arbitration years to save money i.e you're paying for a 2 WAR season and Nola gives you 5 WAR.
Pitchers get hurt a lot, or they can lose their effectiveness. You can take a chance on Nola for the next 3 years because the money won't be that high and he's still relatively young. Giving him a 7 year deal before you have to is way too much risk. That's why you hardly ever see it happen. In fact, I don't think I've seen it happen in the last 10 years.
Kershaw's bought early in his last two arb years after the 2013 season..
https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/los-angeles-dodgers/clayton-kershaw-5273/
Ace/TOR pitchers will get it.
Next in line, Severino of the Yankees will get his after 2019.
@romus, actually Kershaw only had 1 year of arbitration bought out. He was not super 2, and he signed 2 years, $19M for his first 2 years of arbitration.
Either way, it's still too early to talk contract with Nola who's not even in arbitration yet.
Actually, Lincecum is a good example of why Nola should consider this. Lincecum balked at a deal and then his stuff went away. He would have been better signing a 6 or 7 year deal. I think Nola will get $25-30 million for 7 years if he does this – the team will try to even out the AAV, which makes sense.
The Phillies will try to extend a few of the younger guys before signing FAs – more certainty; less jealousy.
Not saying that MM won't get it, but that's an insane amount of money that only maybe 3-5 teams can afford. If a bunch of teams balk at those numbers, it's going to be interesting to see what happens.
Yup – only a few teams will be in play, but I fully expect the contract to look like the contract I've outlined in terms of length and AAV (option periods may vary) – it's a logical progression of the salaries that have come before. This is where it's going.
v1again says:
I agree with you. No way Manny goes for 7 years. Giancarlo got 13 years @ $25m AAV for total of $325…Manny will not go for less than that. It is going to hurt in the out years. No way to avoid that future pain. I think 10 years at $400 is probably what gets it done.
It could be as short as 10 years and if so $400 million is as good a guess as any. I highly doubt it's shorter than 10 years and there will be at least one, and more likely more than one, opt out period.
Hinkie says:
The money you're talking about is not unreasonable. However, your projected first opt out after year two is nuts. Yes, the Phillies will give Manny a couple of opt outs. But the first won't probably come until he finishes his fifth year (MM's age 31 season). The earliest he'll get an opt out is after year four, but I think year five is most likely.
I see a MM contract looking something like this:
year 1 …. 38 million
year 10 .. 33 million
year 11 team option …. 30 million (10 million dollar buyout)
year 12 … same as year 11
That's 370 million guaranteed over ten years, and it could go as high as 420 million over 12 years.
Maybe it's year 3 but someone will give him what he wants. If he wants a year 2 opt out – a year 2 opt out will appear in the contract.
I'm sure Manny would want an opt out after every year … but no team would agree to that. If a club is going to hand over a huge contract, they're going to want some stability in return.
Three years ago the Commish on opt-out clauses to Ken Rosenthal:
""The logic of opt-out clauses for the club escapes me," Manfred [said]. "You make an eight-year agreement with a player. He plays well, and he opts out after three. You either pay the player again or you lose him. "Conversely, if the player performs poorly, he doesn't opt out and gets the benefit of the eight-year agreement. That doesn't strike me as a very good deal. Personally, I don't see the logic of it."
Kurdt Kobeyn says:
Opt out clauses is really one of the concessions given to the player to add value to the overall contract. Teams will prefer options than opt out clauses.
They will get some stability, but less than they would like. He's going to be in the drivers' seat the whole way. I would expect an opt out at year 4 at the latest – my guess is year 3. And for those who say it isn't fair or a good deal for the club – uh yeah, duh – they don't want that, but they may have to give it to him if other teams offer similar opt outs or to give one team an advantage over the others. There are worse things than a guaranteed 3 year deal for Manny Machado.
I hate to say this, but $287 million/7 years probably is about what the Phillies are willing to offer, and it will be laughed out of the room. Machado defrinitely gets north of $300 million. I think he'll be given the chance to pocket $400 million/10 years. It was quite a few years ago, and quite a rise in TV contracts, since the Rangers signed ARod for $250 million/10 years, but then a few years later the Yankees traded for him and added some years to the deal to make it a new $250 million/10 year deal. We won't get Machado for just $37 million more than that.
Tac3 says:
Seager's injury is what caused them to overpay. It's a little frustrating thinking back to the Hamels trade rumors, and how stingy they were with their trade proposals vs what they gave up for machado. O well, just my belly aching
The Dodgers need to go for it though, Kershaw has been a historical post season choker until last season, this teams window is not all tied to him… but he is a huge part of it. He only has so many bullets in that arm, good for the Dodgers not wasting this year and those bullets just because Seager went down.
I'm somewhat concerned about machado not signing here now that he gets to play in a postseason atmosphere in LA. NYC would be just as bad, but let's hope he hates traffic, and really who doesn't … LA has it in spades.
You need a talent team, with a little bit of luck to win it all. 2008 showed us that.
End of rambling, coffee was "strong" this morning
Had we rented Machado, I think very low odds that he would have re-signed with us.
Some people think the home run derby ruins your swing for the rest of the season, I don't think Rhys got that memo, he is murdering the ball… Hopefully going on a hot streak…
Steve, I was thinking the Home Run Derby affect would be the opposite for Rhys in that it would prove to him that he belongs with the elite and give him confidence if he performed well, which he certainly did. So far, that appears to be the case.
Lsigal says:
Starting to think a rental starting pitcher would help us a ton. We have an inconsistent lineup and our best shot at a division is a quality start every night. Acquiring happ and putting Pivetta in the pen may kill two birds with one stone as we've seen Pivetta's Fb hit 99 in his one inning of work there. He usually gets in trouble the second or third time through the order so he might be the perfect candidate for the move. Now what would it take to obtain happ? They'll probably need a top 10 prospect in our system. I'm thinking either Jojo or Gamboa plus another young arm or bat from the lower minors.
We need hitting. The pitching will be fine. I'm okay with adding a lefty starting pitcher if it doesn't cost too much, but we need one or two competent hitters. It's not a coincidence so many runners are stranded. Our 1-4/5 guys get on base in a great way and the 5/6-8 guys can't drive them in because, quite frankly, right now they are way below average.
My choice of bat is KCs Whit Merrifield. 2b, 3b, all OFs. Righty bat with pop (not a HR hitter per se) and high OBP. Top of the lineup behind Cesar, move Rhys to (and keep Santana) in the middle. Good on base guys that they are, we need them to drive home the table setters like CeHe, Merrifield and Doobie. I love Kingery, but until he can be the everyday 2b, send him down also and go acquire either Asdrubal or Escobar to take it at SS for the rest of the season.
Chin Music says:
Absolutely agree on Merrifield. Watched him play a bunch of times this year and he reminds me of a Zobrist type player. Can do it all and would really ignite a stagnant bench. What would you give up for him?
Pivetta has been getting hit consistently in the first inning. How does that work if he goes to the pen and has to come in for one inning? Maybe his mindset in the pen is different and it does work. Or maybe he needs some live pitches to settle in, in which case he wouldn't work as a relief pitcher.
Whether it's as a starter or in the bullpen, Pivetta needs to have more confidence in his skills. His stuff is as good as VV, and yet you can tell that VV has a bulldog mentality on the mound. Pivetta needs to get his head right. He's pitching timid.
Here is an oddity a poster posted on another Phillies web-blog.
Jakob deGrom has more WAR (6bWAR)…. than wins, 5..
Now his fWAR of 4.4 is a little short…but one more quality no-decision game may change that also.
That is crazy. No wonder DeGrom's agent is pissed.
Bob D says:
The OF is Hoskins (righty), Herrera & Williams (leftys) then a bench bat or two. Cozens would be good to give some playing time there but he another lefty so its not an ideal addition. Quinn is a switch hitter with great defense and game changing speed so I could see him added. Once Crawford is back then Kingery will play into the OF mix. The other thing looming out there would be a trade for an OF/IF.
Replace Walding / Plouff / Valentin with Quinn / Kingery or Crawford / a right handed hitting OF/IF would be a big upgrade. Plus come playoff time I could see 1 RP left off roster in favor of another bench bat.
Rumors are floating that the Phillies are talking to TOR —– not for Happ or Donaldson, but for Curtis Granderson. Possibly a bench move that will costs the Phils cash or PTBNL.
That's a good move. Cozens needs playing time to see if he can ever discover plate discipline and Quinn may not be ready. It's hard not to like Granderson –a great talent although a bit in decline. Solid 4th Of for the rest of the season. Will probably cost little.
I've liked Granderson for years. He's a veteran guy with decent pop off the bench.
Phils can't hit Lefties and Granderson is batting .111 against them in a small amount of at bats. I'll pass. I'd rather give Quinn a shot.
Or, trade for Merrifield.
Agree……Quinn needs to be the guy…its now or never for the Phillies to know whether or not they will be able to depend on him when he is healthy and able to play.
If it's only a PTBNL or cash, I would do it. I'm fine with Granderson as a bench upgrade but not a regular. Escobar or Cabrera would be good stop gaps at ss. Either send Kingery down or make him, Granderson, Quinn and Knapp your bench.
With this bench, i cant be negative about any option, but when I think of Granderson all i can think of is the weekly messages from my brother in LA last year about how awful Grandy was for the Dodgers. (161 avg, 654 ops)
matt13 says:
Just got a note from Ken Rosenthal, who is usually tuned in and he has the Phils targeting Cabrera, Dietrich and Escobar. What do you think?I think a bat is crucial. Altherr belongs at AAA trying to regain his confidence. He has been completely lost. I would love to see Quinn up. That lineup for the second game yesterday was as bad as watching the hitters in the first game continuously fail with men on base. VV was really dealing at the right time. Kudos to him. I still want a Lefty in the rotation and have no problem with Pivetta going to the 'Pen. I am not giving up on him, he can always continue to work tworads being a SP, but I want to make a real Playoff push.
I've seen enough of Cabrera and Dietrich to know that they would be instant upgrades to our bench. Obviously, Cabrera would be a rental and cost less then Dietrich, who still hasn't entered arbitration yet. I have no problems with those 2 guys.
On Manny Machado …
* Teams like the Yankees and Dodgers (and some other big market clubs) won't have a problem going over the luxury tax threshold this winter … especially for a superstar player (Machado, Harper, Kershaw). As a matter of fact, the reason these clubs scratched and clawed to get back under the threshold before this season was to reset their luxury tax penalty for if/when they blow past it again this upcoming winter.
* That said, if a team goes over the 2019 threshold (which will jump from 197 million to 206 million), they will pay an additional 20% tax. The Phillies are far more under the threshold than the rest of the big market clubs. So signing Machado to an enormous, long term deal would, in theory, cost John Middleton 20% less than it would cost Hank and Hal Steinbrenner.
* To those worried MM will fall in lone with LA, don't sweat it. The Dodgers traded for Manny as a true rental player. Corey Seagar will be back next year, and the Dodgers will not be a real player in the MM FA sweepstakes. In addition, Manny doesn't appear to be a "Hollywood type". I read (in a USA Today) story that Machado and his wife are looking for a house to rent for just three months in LA. And … there was also this quote from Manny, "I know Magic [Johnson] is one of the Dodgers' owners, so I ain't going to lie, that'll be pretty cool to see him. But I don't plan to do the Hollywood scene. Maybe a dinner once in awhile. That's about it.
"I'm just here to play baseball and try to help this team get that one extra win they didn't have last year.''
* Manny Machado to the Phillies makes/has always made the most sense. Most people around MLB see it the same way.
AL executive to @jaysonst on the Phillies' interest in Machado: "I know that front office loves Manny. He fills their biggest needs – a bat on that side of the infield and a star who drives attendance. …" https://t.co/xBy9Y2ZATV pic.twitter.com/gMJkHdeb7s
— The Athletic (@TheAthleticPHI) July 17, 2018
And the best news is … the Phillies could still see Adonis Medina on the mound as early as late 2019 … with Machado behind him manning SS/3B !
If the Phillies signed Machado this offseason, the Medina-JoJo-Haseley or Medina-Kilome-Ortiz-Gamboa trade package might eventually known as BAL gift to McPhail and Klentak. All these prospects have legit shot to be a decent MLB players.
@Hinkie – i posted last week about someone's foregone conclusion that Machado falls in love in LA lifestyle as if everybody loves LA. Machado's culture and demeanor is not LA-bound. Family is normally the reason why a man can change his principles and Machado's family appears to be not-Hollywood like.
Machado main consideration will be net $$, trust for the FO and the team's ability to compete. The Phillies looks like they checked all these boxes so they will have a good chance to sign Machado. LAD are already settled with their SS-3B so they will use the $$ to fill other needs. As for NYY, they will be staring at locking up their young talents in Judge, Sanchez, Severino, Torres, Andujar and still address their starting rotation (which is also expensive). NYY might balk at the $300M+++ price tag.
Being the techno phobe that I am, I don't know how to post a tweet, but here's a link to Cord Sandberg's Twitter site where he has a fun video of himself preparing for his new life as a football player: https://twitter.com/sandberg_cord
SWFL … to post a tweet, click on the down arrow in the upper right hand corner of the tweet. Then, click copy link to tweet. Finally, paste that link here on PP. Keep the tweets coming !
Hinkie. Thanks. Here's the direct link:
No offense to baseball, but I'm having way more fun capturing football content 🏈 @sandberg_cord pic.twitter.com/FiFpK0rg2P
— Haley Gray (@haleygray5) July 22, 2018
It is not the Dodgers I worry about, it is the Yankees and the Angels. The Angels have to spend big and make the playoffs to keep the best player in the league. If Moreno is really going to try to convince Trout to stay, Machado is the perfect addition. He can then add some Pitching. The Yankees are always a threat and those who think they don't need a SS, they can trade DiDi for a front line SP. I hope we get him, but I think the "relationship" with MacPhail is overblown. he may be happy to buy Joe Jordan dinner when they are in town at the same time, but I don't think he signs here for Jordan.
I am less confident now than before that Machado signs here. NYY are vultures when getting top tier talent and rolling over their prospects for even more. That's how they roll. Gregorius will fetch them a top TOR this off season. They will move whatever salary they need to fit Manny under the luxury tax. Or go over for a year if necessary. If he wants to play in the Bronx, that's all that matters.
Manny may give us the obligatory Lebron meeting (and not be present himself) but the Yankees will have another star. Hate 'em!
I would take Didi in a heartbeat. Then, I would trade for Arenado and wait on Trout when he becomes a FA.
What makes you think Colorado would trade Arenado?
I live here. It's been discussed at length on sports radio throughout the last couple of months about his displeasure of playing on a team not making the playoffs(a ton of talk about trading him). By trading him, they can load up on assets. Then, they can move Story to 3rd(or keep him at SS) and bring up Brendon Rodgers(again, SS or 3B). Phils send pitching to CO, which they are always looking for.
This is just my opinion, of course, but I would love to see a GG 3rd baseman with a lot of pop, a SS with pop in Didi and eventually one Mike Trout roaming our outfield for years to come………….people can dream!
Rockies are getting hot right now, so things may change.
Rockies will need to do something soon with him, next year is it…..he is a FA after 2019 and he says he likes California, being from that state.
So sign him long-term, or trade him …walking is not an option.
I am sure no GM wants to be the next Dan Duquette.
Why don't the Rockies just spend the money to surround him with players? Is the team cheap?
@Guru – i don't think the COL is cheap. Considering their revenue stream, their pocket is just not as deep as some other bigger market teams.
Like Romus said, no GM likes to be in DD shoes this year. It's either COL and Arenado talked and possibly agree on lucrative extension this offseason, otherwise, Arenado will be a goner since his price tag will be at par if not better than Machado next season. And the Machado rental trade package is also not overwhelming so COL may not get a kings ransom if Arenado will be traded at the deadline next year.
Some people believes that Machado will stay in LA, but Arenado is more of the LA-type of a person. He grew up in SoCal as a life long Dodgers fan. If LAD will be interested to add a 3B, it will be Arenado not Machado. The interest is mutual between Arenado and LAD.
if you want to dream, dream of Franco becoming Beltre, Kilome becomes Severino and Anderson becomes deGrom so the Phillies don't need to trade or sign big names anymore.
Since we're at Boston next Monday and Tuesday, it would be nice to have a legit bat as DH by then. And beyond as well, of course.
DMAR says:
I'm making it a point to enjoy the ride. Sure some of it has been tough to watch but wow they just keep finding ways to win series.
I remember the year we were thumping everyone then we ran into the Giants who were pitching very well and some off the shelf guy by the name of Cody Ross got hot…
I agree about enjoying the ride. Phillies are 12 games over .500 and leading the division after 98 games! No one on here expected that they would be anywhere near this record at this time. I will say that I did bet the over for wins(77.5) and also bet a friend that they would finish over .500.
P_PHAN says:
i think part of the reason Scotty the K is over trying and flailing at pitches with 'meh' results and making some throwing errors in the field, is that he is a natural second baseman and should be playing there.. His head is working OT probably, trying to learn this SS position and hit his way out this slump..Why Kapler insists on switching him to SS. .. just don't understand it.. In the 2nd game, he could have ( make that should have) played 2nd base instead of Valentin.
so if you would be playing Kingery at second, what are you doing with CeHe and who is playing short?
Don Money says:
I wanted to post and get everyone's thoughts on something I've been thinking about with all of the trade talk based on the Phils' success. I, like everyone else, hope the Phils' 2018 success can be sustained through the second half and a surprise playoff appearance is in the cards. However, I really don't think this team is likely to win the World Series this year even if they do make the playoffs. While I certainly wouldn't sell any assets to decrease the Phils' chances this year, I'm not sure it's prudent to be buyers. (I would have traded for Machado for the right price however as I think he is a generational talent and not a true rental with the Phils' intention to try and sign him long term.) Additionally, I can get on board with trading cash or a non-prospect for a Curtis Granderson to be a bench player, but not at the expense of Roman Quinn. I'm also not sure trading for an IF is the right move. The Phils will play Santana and Cesar pretty much every day on the right side, and they already have Franco, JPC soon, and Kingery to play the left side. If the Phils add an IF that would play nearly every day, does that send Kingery or JPC to AAA until September 1? It's not going to help Kingery or JPC to be playing 50% of the time, and I'm not sure either one should be back in AAA for this pennant chase. I wouldn't do anything to hurt their chances in 2018, but I'd also make sure that if I'm trading for someone, it's not hurting the team in 2019 either.
Starting Pitching – why would they trade for someone? Nola, Jake, Vinny, and Eflin should be locks the rest of the year. Pivetta should likely be a lock also unless they determine his future is in the bullpen – then move him down but give De Los Santos that spot in the rotation, he is part of the future.
Outfield – I know Nick Williams may not be the long term answer, but would we be ok if the Phils benched him now in favor of an OF upgrade who's not part of the future? I think he has played well enough lately to deserve the AB's whether it be to prove he's the guy or just to enhance his trade value.
The only area I could definitely see 1-2 players being acquired helping is the bullpen.
I think he will be a legitimate player, and I said before that I expected to see him in the Major about the beginning of July. That doesn't mean he hasn't struggled, and in that first game, he seemed to be guessing on pitches. Ross doesn't throw hard enough that Scott couldn't have waited a tick more before committing. The announcers made a big deal out of the way Ross pitches the way that used to be called "backwards" and threw that slider 3-2 often. Kingery struck out the first time on a ball that bounced, and then looked at strike 3 expecting a slider.
mattt13….one week shy of August and the Phillies will have to sink or swim with Kingery this year at shortstop or wherever they will play him in the field.
JPC is due back soon and what Kapler does is anybody's guess.
He may have Franco/Kingery and JPC do a juggling act between ss and 3rd..
Or play the hot bat at the time.
Not ideal…..but maybe that is what his analytical guide calls for.
If its me as soon as JP is deemed healthy he becomes my SS for the rest of the season. You traded Freddy because you believed that to be the case. And now more than ever before next season you need to know if you have a SS or not.
What you now know is that Scotty is not a SS. Send him down to play everyday at 2B and let him find his stroke again.
DMAR……makes senses.
JPC should be the guy at shortstop.
He is taking grounders from what i read this weekend.
So maybe in another few weeks, after some rehab assignments, he could be ready.
But, Gabe is da man with da plan! ..
Trenton Guy says:
I just don't see Granderson being any help. He's a veteran…ok great. I think he's been a solid ball player for most of his career but he's fairly mediocre at this point and isn't that much of an upgrade. He'd be an August trade target for me. Not July.
Britton would be a fabulous target as would Cabrera. Merrifeld I believe would cost too much for the Phillies.
I really think Britton and Pivetta too the pen strengthens the overall pitching depth.
Seranthony
Neshek
Davis/ Rios/Garcia/Neris/
I still think Hamels can be had cheaper than Happ. He's got the NTC and is still owed a sizable amount on his contract.
Britton will probably cost at least one pitching prospect or youngster.
Maybe a Drew Anderson or Kilome alone, or may have to be also one of the above between Arano/Ramos/Davis/Rios….maybe even Adam Morgan would be acceptable to the Os.
I do not think the Os would be interested in Hector or Luis….and Hunter /Neshek are not going anywhere his season.
Granderson is only there for PH purposes. He does a decent job of working the count, and he has pop with the bat. Is he better than Valentin, Walding, Plouffe as a PH? Yes, yes, and yes.
There's been a lot of talk about trades and it got me thinking, I know it's likely a bad idea but what about trading Santana in the off-season? Put Hoskins back at 1B, Santana costs 35M (17, 17.5 and .5 buyout)? I know he walks a ton but it's frustrating to see the #4 hitting .220 and under most of the year. If the Phils eat some of his contract, I wonder what they could get for him, or do they just hope that he bounces back next year?
Too early to talk about trading Santana. Pretty sure he'll be wearing Phillies red in 2019.
Same for Arrieta, if people are thinking about trading him too.
They will be with the Phillies for two basic reasons. First, they have underperformed their contracts – not by a lot, but to a degree; so the Phillies would have to pay some salary. Second, they are still better than the readily available alternatives so on they will play for the foreseeable future.
You're right, but especially Sanatana anchored at 1st base seems to have thrown a monkey wrench – as far as the OF &1st base goes..
Hoskins belongs at 1b, Altherr should be a regular in the OF– Altherr (probably /maybe) would gotten his timing & batting rhythm back & BA up if he was in the lineup more frequently.
Not worth talking about now, not until this time 2019.. Maybe
Altherr screwed himself. He got tons of at bats and didn't hit. That's not the Phillies' fault – and I like Altherr.
Anyone know why Cesar is sitting tonight again? Plouffe playing 2b. Santana leading off again.
I think his foot is bothering him.
just too lazy to retype…
w/ cesar sitting today, @ScottyJetp4x should be playing his position of strenght! unfortunately, nobody currently in the @Phillies who can play the most demanding defensive position so @ScottyJetp4x needs to be a good soldier to hold the SS fort & received the flak for doing it.
— Kurdt Kobeyn (@Kurdtify) July 23, 2018
Flybynite says:
I don't think that much of the criticism on Kingery is for his play at SS, he has been unexpectly good at SS for not playing the position basically his entire pro career. I think he is around an average or neutral to a smidge above defensively.
His bat is pretty much what he is criticized for, not saying he can't or won't improve but just evaluating actual results and the stats are very mediocre.
Vierling cooled off a little after joining LWD. This trio may not make any Top 50, but I like McArthur, McKay and Killgore. Killgore is pitching primarily from the pen in which is can be a fast riser if the Phillies keeps him there.
Bailey Cummings, 20 yo and JuCo signee last year is silently having a nice 2018 pitching exclusively from the pen.
Kyle Dohy is settling down nicely after the big promotion. His K/9 is 16.3!!
A "friend of my friend" (who lives near Tampa) told me that Luis Garcia has some J-Smooth in him. Hopefully, JimP can confirm.
jimpeyton19 says:
Luis Garcia has settled in and looks much better than he did in Instructs, ST, and XST. However, there is only one Jimmy. (so far)
Handzus says:
Vierling's contact abilities may not be superhuman after all, but for a 5th round pick to be in Lakewood already says something. It's a tough assignment.
Ganderson and Happ I'd take that in a ny min. Middle
Range prospects.
Eflin doesn't last 3 innings, so maybe the "we don't need a SP" is not accurate. I think the team can use some reinforcements.
Here's an idea: maybe Matt Klentak should flip Efflin for an elite LH closer (Felipe Vazquez) !!!!! 🙂
I'll do that in a heartbeart even if Klentak need to add another bullpen arm.
KuKo … I'm glad you're on board … but LOL … last week, you told me you would not do that deal (Ken Giles should be a lesson that relievers are too up and down).
Anyway, I'm glad that you now see the light. If you trade emails with Matt Klentak, make sure to suggest the Vazquez deal 🙂
@hinkie – i still prefer to prioritize the use of tradeable assets (i.e. Eflin, DLS, etc) to acquire a legit bat or an arm with potential. But at face value, your trade proposal make sense for both sides and losing those players/prospects will not hurt the Phillies both ST and LT and adding Vazquez is a definitely a big help.
I know some people don't like Chris Archer, but if the Vazquez plus delos Santos can fetch Klentak Chris Archer, I'll prioritize that and swing that deal.
PIT doesn't seem to be unreasonable so a Vazquez is doable.
i should say Vazquez "package" plus delos Santos…
These kids are still learning, you have to take a breath and relax. If somebody told you that on this date, Eflin would have the numbers he has, you would take it in an instant.
Also, if we do trade for a starter, Pivetta would be the one to lose his spot, not Eflin. So you're ragging on the wrong guy.
Guru … I'm not ragging on Zach Eflin. I actually like the kid. I root for him, and hope he does well. However, when I step back and objectively look at things, I see Eflin as a MOR starter. He's not as bad as he performed last night, but he's also not as good as he showed in his first 12 games this season. The Phillies have a decent list of young arms who could fill Eflin's spot in the rotation both immediately and as early as later next season.
OTOH, The Phillies have nothing like Felipe Vazquez (very few teams do). An elite LH closer with two plus-plus pitches (100 MPH FB & wipe out slider). The icing on the cake is … Vazquez comes with 5+ years of team control at very reasonable money (Oh … and … if Vazquez suddenly became Hector Neris or if he were to suffer a devastating arm injury … he could be bought out of the final two years of his contract). What is not to like/love/lust ???
I've seen enough games like last night's. A dominant closer would take some of the pressure off Ser-Antn'y, and would have gone a long way in helping the Phillies beat the Dodgers last night.
Again … according to Fangraphs' Trade Value Chart, Vazquez's value has been set by the Ken Giles trade. If you want to trim the fat (eliminate the rookie league lottery ticket [Jonathan Arauz], and the high floor, low ceiling former Fullerton State pitcher [Tom Eshelman] who I replaced with Connor Seabold), the proposed deal would be:
Pirates get: Zach Efflin, Adam Morgan, Franklyn Kilome, and Nick Fanti
Phillies get: Felipe Vazquez
For the second week in a row … Hell Yes, I do that deal !!!!
Yeah, I'm not thrilled about trading MOR starting pitchers for relief pitchers. As a general rule, those trades tend to be losing propositions from the standpoint of value. If you really think Eflin is a MOR starter, I'm not making that trade even up because a MOR starter is worth more than anything except a top 5-10 reliever and I don't think he's quite that good. If you think Eflin is a 4 or 5, the deal looks a bit different.
The value of a solid MOR starter is extremely underrated. It's not only the value of having a guy pitch more innings (and thus render more value than a guy pitching few innings), it's the value of having a rotation that regularly takes you to around the late 6th or 7 innings, thus allowing you to use high leverage relievers as opposed to middle relievers.
Now, if the team was one reliever away from being a dominant team, again, the analysis might be different but I don't see this team that way.
catch … I respect your opinion. However, I do have to disagree with your description of Vazquez as a "relief pitcher". Felipe Vazquez (IMO) is a dominant closer … probably the second best LH closer in MLB.
OTOH, Kyle Dohy is silently transforming himself to the Phillies version of Vazquez, Dohy's control still need refinement but he can K batters out.
Austin Davis is settling down nicely. Both can be the LHP pen arms that the Phillies need.
And to add, Hinkie – the way and philosophy of handling pitching staffs today justifies high prices for high leverage relievers. And especially LHPs.
Both Eflin and Vazquez provide different value to the Phillies. Like any other team, there are specific roles that needs to be addressed and Eflin's role is something that the Phillies has depth in the farm so the Phillies are dealing in the position of strength.
Individual value (SP vs RP) normally favors the SP. but the GM needs to assess values collectively as a team.
Fanti is injured….better sub someone else.
No offense to the Fanti fans out there, but he's sort of an afterthought in this deal – there are probably 25 guys you could sub in for him if that's the issue.
If PIT values Eflin like the way most people here value Eflin, Eflin for Vazquez should be enough so any other players involved are ancillaries.
Sure, Eflin and delos Santos can be MOR, how certain is that? The farm is deep enough to produce another Eflin or alike. Sixto and Medina can reasonable join the Phillies. Both can replace Eflin and others. Ranger, Taveras, Irvin, Jojo can provide depth if support is needed.
If you think it's hard to get a closer, then it's even harder to get a MOR starter. I think everybody agrees that if we convert Pivetta or VV, they have the potential to be a closer. Heck, the Phillies turned Seranthony into a closer and it didn't even take 2 years.
Just think about how many YOUNG pitchers the Phillies have had in the last 10 years that have pitched at a MOR level or better for at least 1 season: Nola, Eickhoff, Hamels, Worley, Happ
That's it. Happ got traded and regressed before he got better. Worley clearly wasn't a 3. Eickhoff has been hurt the last 2 years.
If Eflin keeps it up, he'll only be the 6th guy on the list.
De Los Santos, Sixto, Saurez, Romero, Medina are five arms that could at least cover the MOR spot the Phillies would lose. DLS could do it now. The others could be ready as early as mid 2019. I'm not saying they'll hit on all of them. I am saying the odds are good that at least one of them gives this team what Eflin will produce.
List of Phillies prospects who can give the Phillies what Vazquez can: Sixto (if they want to abandon his future TOR potential) … and he is not LH.
Agree. While VV has been showing TOR stuff of late, let's ride him the rest of the season. Meanwhile, let's not overvalue Pivetta or Eflin based on their brief and scattered glimpses of brilliance when there is urgent need for bullpen stability by acquiring a top lefty reliever.
One of them could be MOR, but they are not doing it right now. Sixto and Medina are at least 2 years away. Romero is still at Reading. That leaves DLS and Saurez to MAYBE do what Eflin is doing right now. And if they can't, that leaves yet another hole in the rotation.
@Guru – can't compare the present vs past. Eflin will be the Sixto in the pre-2014 fire sale farm. The farm has been producing good talents in the past few years and the Phillies cannot keep them all. the fact that the farm has good arms almost in all levels in the farms means that the pipeline is flowing.
Producing an everyday MLB player is hard regardless of what position. By the time that the Phllies are contending (which is in 2 years time), only 5 SPs can will be throwing in the mound (the farms appears to be healthy to keep the pipeline flowing) — and my guess is Nola-FA-Sixto-Medina and 10 different names who will be #5.
I'm not worried to lose any of the SPs in the 40-man (other than Nola) for a trade that will bring back a legit MLB player who will fill a big need in the team.
It's funny that you agree that producing an MLB player is hard and yet you have no problems trading Eflin who's an MLB starter RIGHT NOW.
I've seen enough prospects fail to know that I can't count my chickens until they're hatched. But you seem to think that Sixto and Medina will make it.
@Guru – no, it's not funny. it's taking chances and trusting your instincts. i'm not afraid to embrace uncertainty. consider this…
If you take risk and succeed, you'll be happy. If you you take risk and fail, then you'll be wiser.
Visionary takes on risk and uncertainties. Good leaders who stir a team to success are good visionaries.
GMs trade legit MLB players for prospects, cash or something else. It's part of every GM's daily life. If a GM can't pull a trigger in trading a MLB player, then he is not fit for the job.
As much as I like Eflin, I'm not marching on with confidence that both he and Pivetta can sustain a level of consistency.
No doubt Guru, ans I am not trading Eflin. I just want to add reinforcements. Happ and Granderson someone mentioned. That works for me,
Man, Ben Davis is right, that curveball from Stripling is monstrous. He has so much depth on that pitch AND he can throw it for a quality strike.
Walding, Valentin and Plouffe have absolutely no business up here. Valentin needs to play. Altherr was rightly sent down and he's still better than these three.
It's painful watching Walding in the batters box, I just feel bad for him as it's got to be so hard to just K in almost every AB. It reminds me of the Simpson's episode where Homer is dressed as Krusty and the Hamburgler is there and Homer jumps on top of him and the kids are crying and saying stop he's already dead.
Eduardo Escobar is said to have been removed from 8-1 game due to "manager's decision." He is on block. Dbacks, brewers, phils all make sense.
— Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) July 24, 2018
Tommy Hunter, Luis Garcia. I'm not feeling them. Haven't for some time. Neshek and Seranthony (who simply looked too amped up last night) are the only reliable late inning options in this bullpen. There has to be another. Eflin for Vasquez? In a heartbeat. DLS and/or Irvin will be up sooner than later. While I prefer a seasoned arm, it doesn't look like Klentak will bite on one. Pivetta to the pen makes sense.
Hoskins picked up Santana big time last night, though it still wasn't enough. Carlos has to start driving in those runs in key spots.
philabaltfan says:
Any veteran catchers available as how can Jorge Alfaro miss that third strike in that situation?
That can't happen against the top teams and still expect to win. Both Alfaro and Knapp defense are not the greatest.
philadaltfan……catching defense is a real weak link.
The GM may have to move one of them in the off-season and at least bring in a catcher with some defensive abilities.
They can probably get Austin Hedges as part of a Maikel Franco deal with the Padres. Hedges is terrible with the bat, but is excellent defensively (and only 26 YO in a few says).
If we wanted a terrible bat and good defense, we would have kept Cameron Rupp. And Austin Hedges might lose his job once Francisco Mejia comes up.
Well … we could always offer Derek Jeter half the farm for JT Realmuto. Would that make you more happy ?
philabaltfan asked for a defensive upgrade. Hedges is that (and would probably be available for the reason you stated above – Mejia).
@Hinkie – you beat me to Realmuto. He's in my "To Trade For" list together with Machado.
My proposal before centered in Alfaro + Gamboa + SP arm (delos Santos) + Moniak plus others for Realmuto and some bad contracts.
If Klentak is optimistic that they can sign Machado this offeseason, then a Alfaro + Bohm + Gamboa package can be a starter for Realmuto.
But no worries now, Sal A. possibly already found the catcher of the future — Logan O'Hoppe!!
RU says:
KK – article today in Athletic states that Realmuto's framing is not very good – he ranks # 52 in the catching framing fraternity. Just sayin' he is a heck of a hitting catcher but is he a defensive strongpoint ?
SDi thru July 15, 2018:
https://sabr.org/sdi/2018-07-15#NLC
Realmuto ranks 4th.
Player	Team	SDI
Buster Posey	SFG	4.9
Manny Pina	MIL	3.3
J.T. Realmuto	MIA	3.0…………****
Tucker Barnhart	CIN	3.0
Willson Contreras	CHC	1.2
Pedro Severino	WSN	1.1
Yasmani Grandal	LAD	0.9
John Ryan Murphy	ARI	0.7
Jorge Alfaro	PHI	-0.3
Francisco Cervelli	PIT	-1.0
Yadier Molina	STL	-1.2
Devin Mesoraco	CIN	-1.7
Elias Diaz	PIT	-2.6
Nick Hundley	SFG	-3.6
Kurt Suzuki	ATL	-3.7
Chris Iannetta	COL	-4.1
actual third in the NL…..and 5th in all baseball.
@RU – defensive statistics are still too volatile to be trusted. I trust the GMs and their scouts for now. The fact that most GMs value Realmuto a lot in a trade means he's a valuable MLB player and the eye see it that way too.
KuKo….from what I gather….you do not trust anything statistically based. 🙂
@romus – lol!! not really. Just use stats (especially the advanced stats) with caution, that's it.
What I'm seeing now is people just throwing out trade ideas for the hell of it. Most of the time, it's not even remotely doable or even makes sense. I'm all for a discussion if the trade scenarios are reasonable, but most of the time, they are not. If you want to vent about players, then vent. Don't go around thinking that this player sucks, so I can pawn him off on some unsuspecting team.
Case in point, trying to trade for Machado/Realmuto/anybody good without giving up a top prospect. Trying to pawn off Tommy Hunter/Maikel Franco/Andrew Knapp/Aaron Altherr/anybody who sucks on another team.
@guru – is there a specific trade scenario that you are referring to? not because you don't agree with a scenario means it doesn't make any sense. trade scenarios are not for the feint of heart. trade transactions define how good a GM is. if a person cannot embrace risks, then that person is not fit to be a GM or doesn't belong to any trade scenario discussions.
if you are referring to the hinkie proposed scenario, it does make sense. hinkie mirrored the scenario to the Ken Giles trade. Vazquez is a legit MLB player who is one the best in his position.
rather than venting in generalization, address your issue the the person who brought up the trade scenario and let others judge for it.
And, bring in Chooch to be the Catching Coach. Some of these Wild Pitches/Passed Balls are just unacceptable for ML Catchers to not corral. D is a real problem that has to be addressed, and C is #1
Romus, your SDI list is depressing. Only Santana with a positive number at 1.2
Others, besides catcher:
2B Hernandez -0.6
3B Franco -4.3
SS Kingery -1.7
LF Hoskins -8.1
CF Herrera -3.6
RF Williams -3.7
Heck, Alfaro at -0.3 looks downright good in comparison to team average of -2.5
Frank……its best not to read the other positions.
Though have to admit….Doobie's surprised me.
In the past he was always in the positive and higher.
Odubel's defense is worse, but I don't think it's as bad as the numbers say. If he's negative dWar, I think it's slight, like -0.2.
I could see Walding being removed from the 40. Unfortunately he's been a zero in the majors and they'll need that spot for a trade pick up. They will probably just release him since I'm sure they've lost confidence in his ability and Zach Green is now up at LHV and can play 3B
Rhys first 140 MLB games…600 PAs….35 HRs…112 RBIs….255/.374/.525
That's about we should expect from him for a full season.
Though will not expect him to have that amazing spurt of 18 HRs in 30 games like last season.
I'd like another 10-20 points on the BA – aside from that, he's what we all hoped he would be and what a Godsend he's been.
Fish laying it on the Bravos, 9-3 in 8th.
Hopefully Nola is well rested and sharp (unlike Seranthony last night).
Yo, Ben Brown . . .
Drew Anderson recalled and Valentin starting at SS
I like it. I would like to see Jesse get a string of 5-6 consecutive starts at SS to see what he can do.
The Puerto Rico academy and program trained baseball players really are well developed on sound baseball skills.
They rarely make fundamental mental errors and seem to have plus anticipation as a play develops.
Valentin also had his father's career as a MLB player to help him out along the way as a kid.
I think he can play – like really play.
He should get 2 starts at least. Kingery has looked real bad recently.
A very fun link as we approach the trade deadline For us they are calling that player Zach Eflin LOL
https://www.mlb.com/phillies/news/each-teams-best-player-acquired-via-trade/c-286661890
FROM ROTOWORLD:
Phillies LHP prospect Ranger Suarez will make his major league debut in a start Thursday against the Reds.
Suarez owns a sharp 2.38 ERA and 1.147 WHIP in 15 starts this season between Double-A Reading and Triple-A Lehigh Valley, but the 22-year-old southpaw had tallied just 66 strikeouts in 90 2/3 innings and makes for an iffy fantasy bet against a Reds lineup that has surprised in 2018. This will likely be a spot start for Suare
It's confirmed.
LHP Ranger Suarez will be called up and start Thursday in Cincy for his MLB debut. #Phillies
— Meghan Montemurro (@M_Montemurro) July 24, 2018
If Ranger Danger throws Thursday, that will mean the Phillies streak of not starting a LHP will end at 270 games.
so the Reds will have 3 straight games against guys making their first big league starts- two their ML debuts. Poncedeleon and Gomber for STL, then Ranger.
Nice, looking forward to seeing how he does!
The Suarez'….Ranger vs Eugenio will be a good match-up.
Drew Anderson to the pen in Philly, a move I've been waiting for. Ranger starting on Thursday (could be a short call up for Drew) is a bold move. I've been a fan of Ranger's for a few years. I hope he does well.
Phillies needed a starter on Thursday because of the doubleheader on Sunday. Ranger over DLS or Irvin? We'll see what happens.
delos Santos cannot be called up yet. Irvin not in 40-man and he may not be until next season. The Phils may acquire secondary pieces (bench bat and pen arm) that may require a roster spot so they will not burn it for Irvin or anybody who doesn't need the 40-man at the end of the season.
Ranger appears to recover the command of his pitches, he's in the 40-man and the Phillies need to see if he is MLB capable either as a starter or pen.
JoeDE says:
I'm surprised they didn't go Irvin
Quite simply….40 issue.
They did not want to juggle the 40 to add Irvin…Suarez is already on it.
Does not mean they favor one over the other.
why? because Irvin has some nice milb stats? Ranger is the better prospect and already in the 40-man. this is an easy decision for Klentak.
In the FWIW department: Larry Bowa said today that he thinks the division belongs to either the Braves or Phillies, that the Nats are done. And he believes Klentak will acquire a reliever and a bench player (versatile, I assume).
….that's a LEFTY reliever, he said. Also thinks Quinn will be up very soon.
I'm a Bowa contrarian. If Bowa says the Nats are done, I fully expect them to make a strong push for the division in the next 60 games.
Thanks Romus, I knew you would have the answer. I was too lazy to check the 40an Roster and wondered the same thing. 8mark, I hope Bowa is right. I don't discount the Nats, although I despise them. Scherzer is great, but there seems to be a general malaise with that team. Scherzer and Strasburg having issues is just the latest. A Lefty Reliever and a bench bat would be great. Can Klentak just finish up those deals today?
Bottom of ninth, Runner on second , no outs, EVER HEARD OF A BUNT !!!!!
In 1927 when Babe Ruth had 60 hrs he also had 3 sacrifice bunts.
So Kapler lets Austin Davis bat with 2 career plate appearances AND THEN brings i Velasquez who is the Phillies best hitting pitcher to start the next inning. Why not have VV pinch hit for Davis and then stay in the game to pitch?
It's an obvious question in that situation. I figured that VV still needed to get loose and Kapler didn't want to interrupt VV's warm-up with an at-bat. That's the only reason I can come up with.
So it is now at least the bottom of the 15th inning … and if this team would practice bunting everyone could've been home and in bed ready for work and summer camp by the time the next bunting opportunity came up … to hear the Announcers make excuses for the players is comical … you bunt to win. Damn sure Utley would've done it … smh. It should be a requirement to be a Major League Baseball player … to learn how to bunt. … if a pitcher can do it, why can't a positional player do it? Whatever I'm going to bed, ridiculously unnecessarily long game.
Harry kalas is rolling over in his grave
It's over. Phillies win !
…and now they can send Plouffe down and get a some real bench help😆. But I am glad for him. It all came down to a battle between Kapler and Roberts on who would blink and use a position player to pitch first. Gabe won. And without Seranthony.
Dan K says:
Statistically, you're less likely to score a run with a man on third with one out than a man on second with no outs. It's a marginal difference, but you're still complaining about not decreasing our chance to score (in a vacuum).
It's actually a little bit absurd that you're complaining when we put it into context, though. In the ninth, Santana doubled to lead off. That meant the next three hitters were Franco (.275 BA), Williams (.250), and Valentin (.173). When a single likely scores the runner from second anyways, which of those three do you want up to bat? If you can choose two of them to bat consecutively, which do you choose?
Both of those answers should include Franco, and neither should include Valentin. If Valentin was up first, there's a legitimate reason to consider bunting; he isn't hitting enough to expect him to realistically move the runner. But that is EXACTLY why you don't have Franco bunt in that situation. You're effectively putting all of your eggs in the basket of Williams getting a hit or hitting the ball deep enough for a slow runner to score (which is, essentially, a ball to the warning track).
To simplify it, what's more likely: one of Franco and Williams hits a single, or just Williams gets a single? You take the odds, especially with Franco being one of the Phil's best hitters (we can talk about how depressing that statement is another time).
Bunting would be a terrible coaching decision
You are more likely to score with a runner on second, no outs, than a runner on third, one out. It's an objective fact. It was true in the 50s. It's still true now. Stop with the bunting crap.
— Ben Harris (@byBenHarris) July 25, 2018
Agree. Once you're in scoring position (which is why they call 2b scoring position), there's no reason or excuse not to get him home without a bunt.
I've watched a lot of baseball and crunched a lot of numbers, manipulating them to help make my point as well… Runner on 2b from a lead off double. Get a successful bunt down, which isn't unreasonable to ask, runner goes to 3rd. You don't need a hit to score him. Fly ball, grounder through a hole (which doesn't always score a slow runner from 2b), a wild pitch, steal home, an error, etc … I'm sure I'm wrong in the age of analytics but I also don't remember watching games go into the 16th inning using positional players growing up. Sure it happens … but generally… Your team needs to be able to hit if your going to pass on the whole small ball game strategy. The 93 Phils won a lot of games with small ball… and steroids but that is besides the point.
Btw it's more a friendly argument for me, I see both sides, but I lean towards small ball play … it works when executed. I'll take that over relying on a team of .250 hitters to get that run in.
So a fun hypothetical move you could consider is…
Pinching running for man on 2b, in this case Santana, with … Quinn. Then you have a greater chance to score that runner from 3b with 1 out if your next guy can make contact. If not, Quinn to LF, Hoskins to 1B. With the way the shifting has gone, players should be practicing bunting everyday. Quinn could be a weapon in small ball … but he'd have to stay healthy …
it is not a hypothetical. the math is clear and consistent. bunting with anyone besides a terrible hitting pitcher is a very bad baseball decision.
if you were taught differently as a kid, then you were taught wrong.
the player up a the time was Franco, who has a .388 OB% and a 1.001 OPS in July. Bunting would have been a horrible decision.
Matilda says:
According to the website below teams have a 66.7% chance of scoring a run with a runner on 3rd with 1 out and a 63.3% chance of scoring a run with a runner on 2nd with no outs. So if you knew for a stone-cold fact that your bunt was going to be successful you could argue you would rather have a man on 3rd with one out compared to a man on 2nd with 0 outs.
Of course, those stats are based on all types of situations and do not factor in the way a team will defend you in a tie game in the bottom of the 9th (or 10th or 11th…) – for example, pulling the infield in or walking the bases loaded to set up a force out at home or a double play, things they might not do in the middle of a game.
https://www.nssl.noaa.gov/users/brooks/public_html/feda/datasets/expectedruns.html
Baseball orthodoxy never dies. Okay people, we have beyond statistically significant sample sizes to know that, in all but a few scenarios, bunting is dumb ass stupid. It does what good teams do not do – it gives the other team an out. Yes, there are exceptions (pitcher batting, etc.), but they are just that – exceptions. The general rule is bunting takes away runs and doesn't add runs. Fortunately, the new regime actually runs numbers and it's not a coincidence that this team doesn't really appear to be all that good but yet it wins. If you play the odds correctly again and again over a long season the incremental advantage tilts toward you, so thanks Gabe and company. Not everyone is against you.
Ben Davis bunted and broke up Curt Schilling's no hit bid….so there are exceptions to every rule! (tic) 🙂
Yeah, I like the decision not to bunt and just give up an out. However, Franco shouldn't try to pull the ball in that situation. Most any ball hit to the opposite side of the infield is as good as a bunt.
Is that why they are ranked one of the worst defensive teams in baseball using all gabe's analytics and shifts , if baseball was all analytics they would just use computers instead of managers
Steve…I think some of that defensive woes are due to unskilled defenders with also some less than desirable baseball mental acumen .
Not aways a deficiency in the shifts
First inning last night good example…Alf should have blocked it to the pitcher's mound side of the infield by getting out there quicker….Doobie calls off a waiting Valentin then decides he better stop to avoid a collision.
Rhys in LF look to show his inexperience with the ball over his shoulder heading for the wall. Kingery's inexperience at shortstop….Cesar not wearing sunglasses.
Sometimes it just goes on in frustration.
I'm for hearing both sides, but I'm still scratching my head on why you wouldn't bunt with a man on 2nd, no outs, next run by you is a "walkoff" won. Fine, Franco is hot, but they had other scenarios in the game that could've also used the bunt. Instead we watched the Dodgers run out of pitchers before the Phillies offfense could muster up a "analytic" hit.
Honestly, point me in the direction of this irrefutable evidence of analytics against bunting. Something tells me the math is off.
Here's one study – it's been studied to death – you're not correct.
http://www.danblewett.com/run-expectancy-bunting-bad/
But of course, it depends on certain variables such as who is going to be hitting. It makes sense for a pitcher to bunt because he can't hit so with a horrible hitter at the plate, a bunt improves the run expectancy but on the whole, run expectancy is decreased with a bunt.
I'm not sure why I can't reply to the posters who are set on the analytic side of not bunting … I've been told I'm wrong by both, and I'll I'm trying to do is dig deeper. For those who are curious, I believe there is a significant flaw in this study, specifically saying not to bunt with a runner on 2b, no outs, in a game tying/winning scenario. The percentages are 1.10 in favor of not bunting vs .95 for bunting in terms of run production. The flaw is that it only takes into consideration a fly ball get run in or a deep ground ball in the infield. It doesn't account for all the possibilities in that scenario. For instance … doesn't account for pass balls, wild pitches, balls, or errors… or for good measure – bad calls by umpires. Other things to consider are the players ability to bunt, the pitcher, strength of defense, arm strength of OF. But lets focus on his study, just adding in the extra outcomes can change the perception of what should be done in that game situation. I didn't run the numbers, but at the least the stats are closer together than 1.10 vs .95, possibly in favor of actually bunting. This means that you would score 1.15 more runs every 10 times this scenario is played out … how many of those scenarios happen in a year? Another key part in what he said his numbers are based on are the acceptance of the players in executing a bunt. Sounds like that is more of an issue than analytics can explain away. Lazy players imo. You can't bunt you should lose playing time. In situations like last night, it is fair to question why a manager would not have a player bunt. Fine it's is hot hitting Franco at the time, but to say analytics are right in this same scenario with a different batter/or slumping Franco is not "dumb ass stupid." It is negligible. The answer lies, that you could do either… and have relatively the same result every 10 times once you factor in the other possibly outcomes. You need a mix of baseball acumen and analytics… ask Nola.
Tac3….here you go….bunting as never before from SABR bseball card collection..
https://sabrbaseballcards.blog/2017/04/11/4134/
"When Joe Morgan got to the Reds, Pete Rose apparently said to him, "we don't do that hit-behind-the runner shit here." Sparky (Anderson) told him to hit line drives and run at will…."
I think you're making this too complicated.
I start with two premises.
One, as a general rule, bunting will cost you more runs than it generates. Lots of studies confirm this. All things being equal, you generally don't bunt when you're trying to score as many runs as possible. It's a bad idea.
Two, there are scenarios where bunting makes sense. The bad hitting pitcher is a perfect example.
With these two premises, the question is where is the tipping point? I do think you have to take one run scenarios into account. Where the goal is to score one run, the question does not become run expectancy (the number of runs scored) but run frequency (the likelihood any runs will score). So, in the study below, I'd like to know the run frequency of man on second no out versus man on third with one out. It's probably a close call.
And, on top of that, of course the manager has to take into account subtle things like the players and the pitcher, etc. . . Anybody who is a push button manager isn't doing his job. Stats only take you part of the way there.
Not all bunting is frowned upon be analytics.
You must differentiate from SAC-bunting with the out, to bunting for a hit.
I think the discussion here is solely about sac bunting.
It's interesting, I'd like to know the stats referring to bunting is "wrong" so to speak. It is apart of playing small ball, and certain situations in a game, it makes sense to make a "productive" out. You need 1 run, if you score, the other team doesn't get a chance to bat again. Santana is on 2nd no outs, Franco has been on fire, but it's bot 9, he didn't move the runner. He has a 1 in 4 chance of getting a hit, which may or may not have scored Santana from 2nd. He didn't, ge got out and the runner is still on 2nd. If he bunts, most probably the runner moves to 3rd with 1 out. Franco has to get the runner to 3rd in that scenario. The next batter now needs to make contact vs a hit. If he doesn't, you still have the 3rd out to do the same thing, all with better probabiities of scoring a run … from an error, and infield hit, a wild pitch, a ball, the list goes on.
I'm not going to say it can't be correct, but something tells me the math is flawed, in terms of truly breaking it down. I'd take my chances with the bunt vs vs 1 of the next 3 guys getting a hit, and that hit coming on the first batter after the lead off double. After that it's a wash, and your runner is still on 2nd.
Well, I'm sure there are some "one run needed" scenarios where bunting gives you a better chance to win, but usually, it just gives you a better chance to score fewer runs because it eliminates or reduces the likelihood of a big inning.
I was curious, I looked it up, but most of the stats analytics are referring to are for a runner on 1st base per a USAtofay article on it. Mentions how it's a dying art, players don't practice it anymore. The Phillies are mentioned extensively in it, but I'm sure it's not Kaplers Phillies. Bowa says it's the easy …
The analytics are different for a player on 2b, no outs, in a late inning/extra inning game. If I was manager, and I'm not, I would have made Franco bunt in that scenario, but I also would make players practice it all year long. It is a baseball skill, and it needs to be used as a weapon when appropriate.
Personally I don't see it as giving up an "out" in that case. It is moving the runner along to 3rd base, with 2 chances to knock him him and go home. I guess the suicide squeeze is dead too… or does analytics even know what that is? 🙂
I can see in other points in the game, with a runner on 1st and no outs … you can try to steal second and keep your out, but … the math is different for a runner on 2nd, no outs, in the bottom of the 9th… I like Kapler, but I think he relied to heavily on the numbers in this case. Unless Franco is god awful
In practice at bunting, then I could see him telling him to swing, but If Kapler is not making them practice bunting or if Franco is not putting in the effort to learn the skill, then shame on them. It easy … per bowa. I agree with him. Get practicing boys!
I(heart)PP says:
Thanks to everyone who gave their thoughts on sacrificing vs. not sacrificing with a runner on 2nd and no outs. I don't know how to look it up inclusively, but just because the outfield has to play differently in a walk-off situation I'd think it has value, and of course if playing a team which issues passed balls like urine….. But, I was wondering if anyone found out if Kapler commented.
Hard to believe that we couldn't have easily beaten the Yankee's package for Britton without hurting our depth. Nothing special in that package imo
Apparently Matt Klentak, like Theo, is opposed to trading for rentals that will cost prospects.
This is his first year in that position as a GM and seems reluctant to give a farmhand.
give a farmhand UP.
Yeah I'm tired of hearing about the depth of this organization when there seems to be no inclination to redeem its value. Klentak is simply becoming a hoarder. Let's make a move, dude!
since he was hired, Klentak has given the impression of a cautious-conservative type of a decision maker. his actions and/or non-actions reflect that impression. there will be a lot of missed opportunities with this approach, but a strong farm will be Klentak's safety net. it's becoming clear that FA is Klentak's main strategy to infuse proven talent to this team.
Ben Cherington was a prospect hoarder and we all know how that ended…
Looks like McKlentak is going to let the young players learn from the playoff race which I am not sure about. Having Ranger Suarez start on Thursday looks like they do not want to pay the trading price for Cole Hamels or J.A. Happ. Trying Valentin and Quinn looks like there will be no position player rentals coming.
Nothing special perhaps, but not a bad return for a rental relief pitcher who is coming off an injury. Sure, the Phillies could have matched or beat the offer but they probably have to give someone like Romero or Kilome plus a couple others. Really not too upset that the Phillies didn't make that trade.
V1 … at first glance, I thought the same thing. However, after studying the deal, the Phillies equivalent to the three Yankees prospects shipped to Baltimore would have been something like Franklyn Kilome, Yaksel Rios, and Bailey Falter. While I think the Phillies could withstand the loss of those three arms, I can also understand the "Zach Britton isn't going to be the difference in us winning the WS" thought. The Yankees are a true WS contender. They should be more motivated to outspend for a missing piece (extra piece) that could help put them over the top.
Hopefully, the Phillies will be in that position beginning in 2019 (after signing MM and an arm [maybe Britton] in free agency this winter).
In the meantime, Klentak should be looking into a Jake Diekman trade (now that the Pirates have won 11 in a row and aren't going to trade Felipe Vazquez).
I would trade Kilome, Rios and Falter for less than Britton, if that's what it took. Acquiring a top reliever for this bullpen might not be the difference in a WS run, but we won't get there if we don't start, and sooner than later.
danurda8888 says:
What would a rental who becomes a FA in 2 months do though?
About last night's game … after botching the first game of the season in Atlanta by pulling Aaron Nola waaay too early, Gabe Kapler has really settled in and has been on fire when making in-game decisions. That said … if he was planning to pitch VV in the 16th inning, why didn't he have Velasquez pinch hit for Austin Davis (who only had two lifetime professional AB's) with two on and two outs in the bottom of the 15th ??? I know Vince was in the BP, but the chance of VV getting a hit after trotting in from the BP, has to be much greater than the chance Davis gets a hit.
agree with that- by the way, Diekman last night in 1/3 of an inning walked 3 and hit a batter and helped the Rangers blow a 10-2 lead.
Ty Jim , I will say this why hasn't any other poster on this site posted with another posters handle ?
It's not a good thing to use someone's handle,put words in there mouths say things that they wouldn't etc.
There's a alot of fish in the sea . Trade partners will pop Up , relievers aren't costing alot so the Phillies can wait. A bench bat could be Nava ,Stairs etc. Go Ranger
COMING SOON TO A BALLPARK NEAR YOU – a bench upgrade.
Roman Quinn and an acquired bat who will both give the roster more versatility. Kingery may become the utility guy. Knapp remains the backup catcher (unless he's traded). A power bat off the bench would also be nice. 6 days and we should know….
Knapp can also play 1B too.
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Quinn joins the big club in Cincinnati tomorrow night. In 3 days he's been from Clearwater to Reading to Allentown. I see a pattern.
I understand that Klentak is counting on FA, but if Machado decides he wants to be a Yankee then no amount of $ is going to sway him. There are not many Plan B options there after him. Donaldson is hurt, I don't want Harper, there are a couple of SPs that will be available, but Klentak better learn how to make an impactful trade that "moves the needle". I trust Theo and Cashman and Friedman to do just that, and I don't have quite that level of trust in Klentak.
Add Dombrowski to that mix. His trade for Sale was pretty bold and back in the day his trade for Miggy was pretty bold.
I don't think Theo has been that good lately. His trade of Eloy Jimenez for Quintana was a real head scratcher. Quintana is a nice little player but he wasn't Chris Sale and many will say Eloy is better than Moncada.
I'm not looking for Klentak to do anything crazy here. Somehow he has to sure up SS and its really tough to do when you want to get a better look at JP.
Theo may have missed the boat on a Sale deal two years ago…he did not want to include Schwarber in the package with the Sox coming off that WS win.
So the Fed Sox and Dombrowski got him in Dec '16 at the winter meetings.
Red not Fed
All true guys but acquiring Rizzo and Arrieta definitely moved the needle and were a big help to the Cubs finally winning a WS. Verlander was huge for the Astros, Chapman and Miller trades helped their teams into the WS. When Klentak makes a deal like any of those, he will earn my trust. None of them are perfect. Pat Gillick made a horrible trade for Freddy Garcia. The trick is to have the guts to make a mistake and still keep swinging. This is an owner who will stand behind a well thought out aggressive move. I want Klentak to be that bold guy. That doesn't mean reckless. Maybe the offer for Machado was good and the Dodgers was better, or we don't really want Britton or Eovaldi or Hand. But, we do need someone and we need an upgrade for the bench if not a Starter, so the GM needs to help the club, and the price is prospects. His job is to guess right which ones are expendable.
We'll see if something happens in the next few days, but I definitely think they should be doing something.
I agree that the team should not be parting with guys who are prized prospects and are likely to be the core of any team going forward. That makes sense. I also get that deadline deals are generally how an acquiring team loses rather than gains value in the long run and that we believe that the team is still in asset acquisition mode (although we're getting closer to the tipping point).
That said, I've learned some things from watching the Eagles (yes, the Eagles). Last offseason (before the SB run) I was puzzled by a number of "win now" moves made by the Eagles because I didn't see any chance that the team could compete for a championship. That said, the moves, for the most part, did not result in sacrificing the future (although there were a few exceptions once the team really gelled) but simply were done to maximize the present. And guess what? It actually worked.
This is a long way of saying that, if the team is in contention, if you can improve without seriously jeopardizing the future, you should do it because, in baseball, you really don't know what will happen, especially if you have pretty decent pitching as the Phillies have. So I'd like to see incremental upgrades at catcher, right field, and the bullpen and perhaps the rotation although it's not the area of biggest need. Now it's possible some of those improvements could come from the minors, but you can't rely on that outcome, so they need to make some trades.
I've said it before and I'll say it again – the best GM I've ever seen at layering a roster for a postseason run is Pat Gillick. I'd put him to work on filling the holes and I'd tell him the trade paramenters – he would be excellent at that.
Hey Jim, it seems like a lot of my posts need to await authorization (or are otherwise just blocked). Is there a reason you can think of? I don't use links typically, so are there words I should be avoiding? (I also don't use profanity or racial slurs or anything, so maybe words that WP associates with bots?)
I know you're busy, so take your time. I don't post too often, but it's frustrating to take the time to write out paragraphs explaining some concepts (this time about bunting) only to have it be hidden until it's redundant.
matt13….understand Phillies may have some interest in Os Adam Jones for the OF.
The GM could pull the trigger on that trade.
It mayo
It may not move the needle to far but it is a start.
Meh – he's so close to being the same player that Nick Williams is right now statistically that I hardly see the upgrade expect perhaps as part of a platoon.
Judas_priest says:
Jones is a slightly better defender. (Used to be much better but he is not as effectiv now that he is older)
We need an infield bat. Jones is fine if he only costs us a 2nd tier prospect or 2. No top 10.
Nah, I don't really see how he moves the needle very much and I know we need a hitter.
i can't see Jones enthused about coming in here to be a part time outfielder heading into free agency.
Last I heard we're still scouting KC. Moustakas is receiving interest from as many as 9 teams, presumably all contenders. Merrifield would undoubtedly cost way too much (at this time) in prospects. I've cooled on Moose since last season. But his power in CBP is compelling for a team in a playoff run. Franco would likely be the primary trade chip for bullpen help.
Don't forget still have until August 31st for the waiver deals…..that is when the Astros acquired Verlander last year…last day of August.
I'm not watching the game but Seranthony was called up to get last out in the 8th inning and threw 2 wild pitches that moved Machado from 1st to 3rd, walked the next batter (Kemp) and almost (missed by a foot) issued a 3-run dinger to get the last out.
Kapler need to give Seranthony some breather before he destroys him before the season ends.
Or he needs to pat him on the back, tell him he believes in him, and let him go and conquer his demons, which may be the best way.
Most likely – it's some combination of the two.
And there we go – Seranthony pulls himself out of the fire. He's young – he's getting battle tested now, but the stuff is just so good.
From Kiley McDaniel chat today:
Who is the best pitcher in the Phillies entire organization after Nola and Arrieta?
Kiley McDaniel
Sixto Sanchez
Any comps for Adonis Medina? What's his ceiling look like?
Flashes three plus pitches and average command, which is, if he keeps doing that, #2 starter stuff. So go check out the 12th to 30th best starters in baseball–he could be that good. Maybe Nola's stuff but a little less feel? Obviously doesn't look much like Nola physically, but that's how I graded Nola's pitches when he was 21.
Medina being mentioned in the lines of Nola….Now I know why I love Adonis Medina! I know that Pivetta and Vinny's stuff can wow at times – but a Nola-Sixto-Medina is coming soon!!
Becareful, it wasn't long ago that Kilome was the apple of our eye
I was never a fan of Kilome and been screaming that he move to the pen. I don't think Kilome generate the same buzz as Sixto and Medina.
Ben Davis does all he can do to hold back on commenting on the Phillies' catching defense.
The Phillies may have the worst defensive catching metrics this season in their entire MLB history.
Except for results from Alf' s arm on attempted steals…..it is a waste land of errors (16 leads MLB), PBs and inability to properly square up and block a ball in the dirt, that they know is coming from a pitch selection of a slider or CB.
And the team as a whole…..over 72 errors by the team….third highest outside Cardinals and Rangers.
Fld%….4th worst.
Matt Klentak will need to make a move this off season to shore up the defense.
Romus,
Agree. One way to shore up the defense is to have Kingery play 2B and JP back at SS. That might happen next year.
As for catcher, I suggested the other day getting a good defensive catcher who can hit at least a little bit. Keep Alfaro or Knapp and let him develop behind the veteran, at least for a season. Short of that and/or more immediately, bring up Logan Moore as the defensive catcher.
I still am enamored of Alfaro's natural abilities and would keep him over Knapp. But like Roman Quinn and his injuries, or Mikail Franco and his annual "I've learned patience and won't pull off the ball" routine, our patience runs out.
The outfield would be helped with Hoskins back at 1B. That might not happen given the commitment to Santana but, long-term, it's a way to diminish a big defensive liability in LF.
Drew Anderson optioned back to LHV possibly to give way to Ranger. The Phillies probably need to make another move.
As per MLBTR, the Blue Jays "appear close" to trading Happ. Team??? Yankees, Brewers, Phillies mentioned.
Cubs, too.
Did Quinn play today? I could see him up on the MLB team by the end of the weekend.
I don't want to see the Phillies trade for Happ or Granderson. Give me Hamels, Adam Jones, and Zach Duke. Maybe Escobar, not sold on him he's 29 having a career year in a walk year where he never OPS'd over .758 but currently sits at .860…fluky screams regression.
Though I'm usually all about riding players on a streak or having a good year.
Quinn did not play today.
Jon Heyman has Jones and Escobar as two targets. Jones would take over RF with Williams becoming a 4th OF. Escobar could play either 3b or ss, giving Kapler options to mix and match, depending on who's hot and who's not….or who's gone.
Pitching? Hard to say. They may surprise by doing little to nothing. There isn't a whole lot of availables worthwhile.
Jones is worrisome in some respects.
Though his current K rate of 16% is not bad….he only walks 3% of the time.
So he likes to swing when he is up there.
He really does not fit the current team's profile in their plate approach.
I can't put Nick on the bench now he has rewarded the club with a 297/388/848 in the last month…
DMAR….he has been hotter than his usual over the last month…..297/.388/.459
OPS+ of 131
Hopefully he can maintain that pace.
Trenton guy, I love Cole Hamels but he helps the team zero, how do Granderson and Happ not help us? The cost should be modest or I don't do it, but they both help. Pivetta to Pen Granderson is our best batter off the bench. If we can do better, great! But they make us better.
Matt – What does the Grandy man provide that Williams can't? He's essentially asked older Nick Williams. If you're gonna add an outfielder from outside the org why not add a right handed bat?
Happ had been mediocre this yr. Hamels away from Texas had been solid. I'd roll the dice with Hamels.
Just a veteran off the bench, a 4th OF, he is better than any bench bat we have. Happ has pitched well this year and a Lefty in the rotation adds a different look. I think he helps significantly downthe stretch.
I am thrilled we took 2 of 3 from the Dodgers, it really was a terrific series and showed the grit of this team. It does not indicate that we need no reinforcements, however, quite the opposite. It puts the GM front and center to do something. Maybe some if you may think I am too hard on him, but to me, this is where he earns his keep. Doing nothing is unacceptable and getting the team involved in deal after deal only to come up empty is worse than doing nothing.
Eric D says:
How much knowledge do you think that announcers have about the team? I obviously don't think they know anything like the coaches or FO does but I would assume that they are in the know more than we are, yes? I'm asking bc Tmac was taking twitter questions while their plane was delayed and he was asked about Haseley seeing time w the big club this year, he said he thinks it could happen. An opinion or an educated opinion?
there would seem to be more reasons not to do it, than do it (40 man roster, service time)…but i mentioned elsewhere benitendi followed similar progression his first pro season and was called up after a couple good months in AA- would seem it would take not picking up a 4th OF in a trade, and then an outfielder getting hurt, along with Haseley having another strong month, to make that a real possibility this season, imo.
tony curry says:
Reading lost to New Hampshire today. How about the Toronto AA first 3 batters, all OF's. Bichette, Biggio, and Vlad Jr. Biggio and Vlad Jr. having awesome years. Can't imagine why they are still in AA. Biggio a 5th round pick.
MLL says:
Biggio was a Phillies pick out of HS but didn't sign.
The Phillies are tried too so many players right now. A vet closer , a vet catcher , a vet bat would be nice.
Todd Zolecki believes that Quinn might get called up tomorrow.
Roman Quinn joining the Phillies would be an excellent move !
That means Plouffe goes down.
Zolecki said that Anderson got sent down.
Still would need to make another move since Ranger Suarez needs to be added
I'm in favor of that – he is an immediate upgrade and there's a lot of untapped potential too and he adds a level of excitement that I think helps a team in contention.
VOR says:
Rocco gone? 5 years too late.
John K says:
What did Machado notice Mon-Wed? Maybe…
A young team that is performing ahead of the curve and holding on to 1st Place by taking 2 of 3 from his Dodgers.
A team that held him to 2-14, 2 BB, 5 K.
Not sure it means much, but shouldn't hurt.
….and between his games vs Phillies with both LAD and Baltimore this season, he lost 6 of 7. That's a big impression.
Spending half the season as a Chase Utley teammate can't hurt the Phillies' chances with MM this winter. But … in the end … the biggest reason Manny signs with the Phillies is John Middleton is set to outbid any other team (including the Yankees).
Speaking of Utley, it also can't hurt that Manny got a first-hand look at how we treat players that give us everything they have. Philly will always have to fight its reputation as being a nasty sports town, but it's hard to imagine us any other way than the City of Brotherly Love once you see how we treat guys like Utley, Halladay, Lee, etc.
I don't know that he wants to be adored that way, but if he does we gave him a hell of a reason to sign here.
One Run Wins-2018
Phillies 20-9 in 2018 in one-run wins so far.
One more win and they tie last season's win totals in that category.
In 2017…total of 21-36.
Guys I would love to see on the Phillies in the next week:
Happ (only if this moves Pivetta to the pen bc then you upgrade both)
Granderson
Solarte
Guys I have zero desire to see on the Phillies in the next week:
Hamels
any overpay for a pen arm
A midsession list
http://prospects1500.com/top-50-lists/philadelphia-phillies-midseason-top-50-prospects/
WestCoastPhan says:
Thank goodness for our LatAm scouting (9 of the top 11)
I respect anyone who puts together a list like that, but I strongly disagree with a lot of this. JoJo is way too low, and I disagree with a lot. He also clearly didn't take guys who are no longer "prospects" off.
One thing of interest is he mentioned that Grullon could see the bigs by the end of the year. I never even considered that but I wouldn't mind his bat on the bench in September when rosters expand
Reports on JoJo are all over the place. Keith Law is the high man on him. Loves him. And Keith is probably the best in the biz. Also I want Keith to be right. But a lot of doubters.
prospect1500 has one of the weirdest prospect ranking. They have Leibrandt at #30 and almost half of the rankings are highly debateable.
Little surprised Darick Hall is 18…higher than the normal experts project him to be.
They had Randolph and Moniak at 26/27 which is about where I had them in my mid-season list.
MLB.com Top 30:
Is Jose Gomez that good?
http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2018/?list=phi
MLB love affair with Jose Gomez is mind boggling!
Agree…it is beyond comprehension.
I looked….he was signed by the Rockies in July 2013.
He was never in their top pre-season 30s from what I could see from 2014 thru the trade to the Phillies….not sure about mid-season 30s.
After the trade….immediately MLB.com puts him in at number 17 in the Phillies top 30…..go figure.
Looks like Happ to who else…NYY. And only for the likes of Drury and McKinney, per various sources.
6mark…Drury and McKinney are both good young players. They have been blocked in NY.
If Drury and McKinney is the price for Happ, I'm glad the Phillies aren't the ones paying it. Both Manny and Happ now have been traded for a package I'd be fuming at if the Phillies matched or beat. But the Dodgers and Yankees are in a different position than the Phils, so I guess it makes more sense for them respectively.
Just extra players for the Yanks, hurts them very little. It is not as thought teams are giving up prospects that make you say "OMG!! They gave him up!" Meanwhile, Klentak is studying. Yanks are 5 behind Boston in the American League with Astros and Indians, Phils in first place trying to stay ahead of Braves and NL seems to not be as strong. I am still waiting for GM to move.
You can call them extra players, and you're somewhat right; the Yanks are dealing from their depth.
BUT, Drury is a major leaguer and McKinney is on the cusp. Both have a lot of control left, which is extremely valuable. And McKinney has the pedigree in terms of draft position (24th overall if I remember correctly), and inclusion in multiple high-tier trades. His stock may be down right now, but he's still a player that has been in very recent demand.
Those two players in a vacuum doesn't seem like too much to give up, but for Happ? Yeah he's had some good years recently. But he's not that high of an impact pitcher (at least not this year), he's old (35), and he's a rental. Plus his recent starts have been less-than-encouraging. Oh, he's also owed something like 7.2M the rest of the way, which is probably why the Yanks gave up so much potential value (for the Jays to eat some of the contract).
So yeah, he makes sense for the Yanks. The trade is a win-win there. But the Phillies are not the Yankees; we're not on pace to win over 100 games with our seemingly only weakness being SP. Happ does not put this team over the hump into WS contender, and does nothing to help us going forward. It was one thing to want to get Manny because maybe that convinces him to sign in the offseason, but I don't see the point of getting Happ for anything but pennies if I'm the Phils' front office.
matt13….Jays , with Drury and McKinney now , to add to Vlad Jr, Biggio and Bichette have five good young core of players to build for the future.
This is an awesome article about a prospect that no one talks about but but may be a top 10 prospect. A 2017 16th round pick.
"Dohy's meteoric rise has turned him into one of the most devastating minor league pitchers this season, thanks to a fastball that now sits mid-90s instead of 88-90 mph, and a disappearing slider he and Cotham concocted, which the pitcher estimates has accounted for at least half of his 88 strikeouts.
Across the entire minor leagues, regardless of organization or level, Dohy (pronounced "doughy") has the best strikeout per nine innings ratio (16.2), the second-best strikeout rate (46.6 percent), the second-highest swinging strike rate (22 percent), and the fourth-lowest ERA (1.10). No other pitcher boasts such a combination.
On Thursday, Dohy debuted on MLB.com's top 30 list of Phillies prospects at No. 23 with a fastball and slider both grading out at as plus pitches at 60 on the 20-80 scouting scale."
The only downside being how many e-mails they send a day (1-2) if that kinda stuff bothers you.
Oh, and they also don't seem to understand that Temple alums may not be the biggest Nova fans in the world…
Seriously, though; their writers are excellent and they have a lot of insightful stories. Would also recommend.
Matt Gelb just tweeted that according to a source, Nats owners are pushing their GM Rizzo to sell, especially being so close to the luxury tax.
What would you give up for Harper?
Nats need piitching.
Strasburg again going down…for who knows how long now.
MadMax approaching mid-thirties.
Rizzo would probably want Sixto or Medina, and Velasquez or Eflin….or, they drafted and know Pivetta already, so they may want him instead.
Klentak wouldn't give that up for MM (who they know they'll re-sign). No way he'd give that up for Harper (who they most likely aren't going to re-sign).
The Phillies aren't a good match for a Harper trade (BTW … I don't think the Nats will even trade him). The Indians make the most sense for Harper, if he is dealt this week.
Agree….Nats will not trade him.
If they trade anyone off their 25 it will probably be someone like Michael Taylor, if Eaton is still healthy, for a pitcher..
FWIW, Hinkie – MLBTR's Jeff Todd just ran a chat. The question was asked: which team has the prospects and motivation to trade for Harper? ANSWER: The Phillies sure make sense on paper.
My question – would you at least make the same offer (value wise) for Harper that was supposedly made for Manny? (I'm not a big Bryce guy but down year and all, his OPS is over .900, and higher than anyone in our lineup, including Rhys.)
Robin Mitchell-Boyask says:
Rosenthal just wrote about that
I don't want Harper. I am not bidding on him as a FA, and I am not paying prospects for him now. Dan, I am not saying that the Phils should have gotten Happ, although I think he would have helped, and Pivetta in the BP helps there. I am saying that the Phils are leading their division and I expect them to continue to, and the GM needs to help that effort by adding reinforcements. None of the trades has seen the Selling team getting an outlandish return, maybe you love Mejia, so we can exclude him if you want. Sellers are entitled to get something, but none of the returns would have hurt the Phils had they made the move instead. I like McKinney and Drury, but with the depth in the OF in NY, they were certainly expendable. We have expendable prospects without touching our Top 10 that would be good acquisitions for the Selling team. I just want to see us be aggressive.
Diaz was also a high price for a rental in today's trade landscape. And I think we just disagree in principle on trades (at least this year). I don't particularly care if we win the NL East this year. I care that we have a stranglehold on it going forward. So if we make a trade, I want it to be for someone that helps us going forward If that's a reliever, SP, IF, OF; I don't really care. We should upgrade one or more spots; but if I have my choice, those upgrades come with 3+ years of control left.
We have depth to deal from, but I'd rather not lose some of that depth for a player who only marginally helps in a year we're not expected to do much more than make the playoffs.
Very reasonable point of view Dan. I just see extra value in winning the Division and making the Playoffs and going after it, within reason, although the team is a year early. I think we, as fans, deserve it. And, more importantly, the Manager and the players deserve it. I think that experience is well worth the price of a couple of prospects, again, within reason.
That's also a valid point of view. The former player in me definitely recognizes the usefulness of reaching the playoffs. Getting those jitters out of the way early in their career and lighting that fire to get back there would be a great thing for our young core. In that respect, there are a handful of players who could help us stay atop the NL East (Escobar comes to mind). I guess if the asking price for controllable pieces prove to be exorbitant, then the next thing to do would be to weight that playoff appearance against the future value provided by the prospects we'd lose.
I definitely don't feel like I could make that call, but our GM certainly should be able to. Either way, I don't get the feeling we're standing pat so I guess we'll just have to see what we do before the deadline.
v1, Thanks for the heads up! I just read it, and the kid sounds really good, and I am embarrassed that I have not checked on him once this year. He and his coach came up with a new delivery that dramatically added to his fastball. He had 63 Ks in 33 innings in Lakewood, and did just as well at Clearwater Maybe needs to cut down on BBs a bit, but his #s are terrific.
I just love it when elite prospects come out of nowhere. Like Seranthony being our best reliever. Amazing.
Starting to think Klentak is going to sit on his hands after watching a few top trade targets go
To non-NL east teams – mainly Braves or Nats. Not a bad play imo, goal is to make the playoffs, & and keep as many assets going forward. I'm fine with no real big deadline deals, the team can make it on its own as far as it can, reassess needs afterwards. A lot of young talent still needs a look to determine what they have before signing fa. Seems like it was machado or bust from the FO.
On Moniak- he was down at the Mendoza line for a good bit of the season if I recalls correct? Not a bad job of raising his average. Smells like he might be turning it around. Good to see from him, still need more power to come from him.
If the Braves make a deal….I am willing to bet Klentak will make a deal.
He will hear more backlash, and have to answer many media questions, if he doesn't do something.
wonder if the Phils had any thoughts on a defense first catcher like Maldonaldo, who the Astros picked up today- easier for the Astros to do that with their lineup though.
not that Nats would trade Harper here anyway, but i wouldnt offer what the Phils supposedly offered for Machado,as the offensive difference Machado had over kingery/crawford is greater than Harper over Nick. Plus Machado would have given flexibility at short/third if Franco got hurt or went back to his old self.
Maldonado is a band aid fix. Klentak is tapping the farm to fill the needs and it might be more benefit to tap the farm again to add a defensive catcher — Edgar Cabral, Deivi Grullon, Austin Bossart and even Logan Moore might provide the same value as Maldonado.
If Quinn comes up does he play SS ?
Tim…..only Hollywood born Gabriel Stefan Kapler knows that answer.
Soria to the Brewers. He is a very good arm. Brewers are in a Playoff race. I don't think they have any better chance of making a run than we do.
Meanwhile, Kudos to Sixto, Bohm and Medina for being in Top 75 of MLB Pipeline.
Phillies are hitting and winning.
wouldnt phils have been tempted, if its just low level prospects and $ to the Cubs, to bring back Cole, even just for fan reaction and ticket sales?
jimhg says:
will some one explain to me why kapler keeps bringing adam morgan into games. he is supposed to get lefties out but rarely does it.
even in mop up duty he's scary.
Patience.
I can't say it enough, or quote enough lyrics.
Prospects need it.
And so do many young players in MLB.
Look at Maikel now! 2 HRs tonight!
Since getting his every day starting gig back on June 17, he's gone from .241 to .274 ba, from .689 to .810 ops, and 8 to 17 HR!
Is he our future 3B? I'm not entirely sure, but the decision not to trade prospects for a 3B looks better and better.
I haven't supported a trade for a big bat and am very glad they have not given in!
Let's see what Crawford can do in final 6-7 weeks once healthy. And I love having Quinn as our 4th OF (and I believe he'll be the 3rd starter before the season's over). On hitting side, trade only for a good bench player.
On pitching side, I'd have traded for Hamels. We need a Lefty. And Philly would have gone nuts to have him back! I believe he would have had a strong finish just on adrenaline! He'd be back home. Beloved by the fan base. In a pennant race. Once a gamer, maybe still a gamer.
The fact that Theo went after him just confirms my thoughts. He's got value! Theo is the greatest GM of our time! (Sorry Billy Beane.)
I'm pretty confident that Hamels will pitch very well down the stretch. Not sure what I would have given up for him, but I'm more than OK going through the rest of the season with what we have in SP department, Eickhoff is still in the wings, and he basically pitched as well as Hamels for a good stretch of time. Will be exciting to see what he can bring, and we get to keep the prospects for another year. I'm starting to believe whatever move is made will be uneventful. For the bench, bring up Quinn, add Crawford. The team will get better just from healing up. Keep doing what their doing and roll the dice in the playoffs.
it looks like it would have taken the equivalent of David Parkinson and a PTBNL, and Phils of course could have absorbed more cash than the Cubs did, so it appears to be simply that the Phils wanted to stick with the current rotation-
i have zero expectation Eickhoff pitches this year.
Cubs and Hamels in town Labor Day weekend.
The Phillies need to replace Nick Pivetta in the starting rotation and move him to the bullpen. James or Happ should have got the bill for a starter.
Quinn wouldn't start over Hoskins , Herrera or Williams. What does Williams done he hit with
Power , improved his bb% and k% less. He's only In 2nd yr and doing well. 2 dead center hr that were crushed last night. He's 10 for 24 since Atherr was sent down .
This is a very exciting time. It is easy to get caught up in everything and want to make a trade, but remember, this ownership and front office have been planning to make a big splash in free agency. If they have to overpay for starts in free agency, you are going to need your young minor leaguers to grow and step into big roles, so you cant be giving those type of guys up now for rentals. I have zero problem with that mindset. I do want to see a bench bat, but I also think that Quinn would be like adding a decent bench bat without having to give anything up.
If you can get Granderson for peanuts, sure, why not, it would be great to have his bat on the bench and his veteran presence in the clubhouse. But looking at what was given up for Happ, Machado and Hand, I would be very upset if the Phillies gave up that type of quality for those guys.
I don't buy the "when you have a chance you go all in" mindset; I am much more of a "when you have a solid foundation of young talent a well as a well stocked system, you aim for a decade of excellence, not one run at it" type of guy. If and when they do get to the point where they are one bullpen arm away from being a WS favorite, then sure give up a top 5 prospect for that power bullpen arm. But right now, they are in great shape; the WORST case scenario is they don't make the playoffs but still have an incredibly successful year in which they exceeded all expectations. I'm in this for the long haul.
Also, does Quinn play a decent shortstop? If he could get 3 starts a week between OF and SS and pinch hit and run the rest of the games, hes going to be incredibly fun
I don't see much happening on the trade front now, other than maybe a bullpen piece and a bench upgrade. Glad to see Franco and Williams hitting right now. My only question is how sustainable are they? History has shown Franco won't. But what do you do? Sell him high in a trade? or cross your fingers that he's finally figured something out? I ride with Williams but a healthy Quinn gives Gabe quite an option as a 4th OF.
Williams ops is .800 Franco looks different game in and game out.
Pat Gillick the Prophet from 2015?
By Todd Zolecki MLB.com @ToddZolecki
Jun. 21st, 2015
PHILADELPHIA — In retrospect, Phillies president Pat Gillick may have been overly optimistic when he said it might take the Phillies until 2017 or 2018 to contend again.
I would like to see the Phillies grab Russell Martin. He is a great leader who can be a back up catcher and 3rd basemen.
i didnt realize how bad he has been – .189 in the last calendar year, .174 this year and due 20 million next year
I don't understand the hoarding of prospects. We have a very deep system, and history has shown that most will not make it. I would not have traded any top guys even for Machado, so never advocated that. But, this team needs a BP arm and a bat off the bench. Not getting them is a failure of the GM. Hamels went for nothing. He is an upgrade over Pivetta and Ranger Suarez for the remainder of this year. There are lefty Relievers better than Morgan. I am not replacing Nick Williams, I want to add to the bench. We have a tough time fitting everyone into a Top 30, so we can't spare a couple of lottery tickets? If we do not win the Division, I don't consider this a successful year, despite what I thought before the season started. This is a team that deserves a boost from the GM.
matt13….who are the lottery ticket prospects?
Prospects in the upper levels do not seem to carry much attractive value….Cozens, Kilome, Eshelman, …then again Irvin, DLS and I guess Suarez, are a little more than lottery tickets and would appear to have value.
Middle infielders abound at the A levels….Gamboa, Brito, Maton, Guzman et al.
They would seem to be desirable but what return can you get for them?
Funny, we are on completely opposite sides of this but we both have explained our points in respectful, well thought out ways (the opposite of a twitter disagreement). I guess it is just a matter of opinion. I kind of think that because of what you said about prospects being lottery tickets, that is exactly why we shouldn't give away a top 15 guy for a reliever. If you really want a good bullpen arm, let de los santos or suarez saty in the the rotation and move Pivetta down, I'd be fine with that.
You can get a pen arm that way, you get a bench bat for free by brining up Quinn or maybe Meneses too…we can add guys who are just as good as the available players by promoting from within. There is no need for Adam Morgan anymore. Get him out and bring up Gilbert or put Pivetta in the pen. There is no need for Trevor Plouffe, however good he may be at hitting homers off second basement. Send him down and add Meneses to the 40 man.
I would give a few peanuts for Granderson if they could do that or perhaps go after Kyle Gibson (little bit of smoke there), but I had zero desire for Hamels, who I do not believe is better than Ranger Suarez right now, or Adam Jones, whos lack of plate discipline does not fit the organization mentality. Happ is fine, but again, I really think de los Santos and Suarez are solid major league 4's or 5's right now, so hes not a huge upgrade.
If we do empty our wallets on free agents, we are going to have to fill out the rest of the roster with guys from the system. That is why I think you hold on to as many as possible; like you said, they are not all going to make it, so you want to hold on to them so the ones that do develop are still in the organization and able to fill in the roster gaps at a cheap price.
Ruben Amaro was always down to "go for it" and he ended up with 0 rings and a depleted system.
"Ruben Amaro was always down to "go for it" and he ended up with 0 rings and a depleted system"
;…..of course the irony of it is very existent now.
Dan, how many prospects that Ruben traded became good/great players? Maybe Carassco in Cleveland and one year of Santana in Milwaukee. The Phillies problem under Amaro is that Ownership would not pay for International players and player development. Lastly, Amaro is like Ed Wade who set the the table for the 2008 WS Champs only to be pushed aside by Gillick. This 2018 team has Amaro's fingerprints all over it not Klentak's.
I know a lot of people say that and are retroactively giving him credit, and yeah a lot of his guys are succeeding, but there is a reason that he (and Wade before him) didn't succeed. When you are a first place team who makes the playoffs every year and sell out every night, you have to be able to use all of that money you are brining in to keep the team atop. You never should allow the team to fall to the depths that the Phillies did. I 100% agree that no international players were a big part of it, but giving out bad contracts like Oprah gave out cars was too. You wanna give him credit for some draft picks, sure, maybe he is just much better at building a farm system than keeping an already successful team going.
Dan, our prior ownership was just as bad as the Orioles are now. It would not have mattered who was GM with the Dave Montgomery and Dallas Green led Front Office.
Klentak is just playing the waiting game to see if any of the other GMs will go into desperation mode on Monday. It is a gamble but he knows he has a strong number of lower level prospects that other teams covet. Would be really surprised if they don't add a LH bullpen arm and some help off the bench by the deadline. We have a 2.5 game lead now but don't want to see them overpay for a 2 month rental.
Flygles says:
Quinn called up! Go get 'em, Glass Man!
Quinn officially coming up per Jim Salisbury
jeffkelly86 says:
Go get 'em, Glass Man!
Romus, dan, I am not sure who the lottery picks would be. I know that we have a lot of depth and I am talking about guys we rank in the late 20's or 30's. I am only looking for a veteran bat and a lefty reliever like old pal Jake Diekman. I think a successful Division run adds a great deal to our young guys. I wanted the Happ/Granderson combo. What I want most is a reason to believe in our GM. I want our guy to be the smart, aggressive, outside the box thinker. Ben Cherington did little, offering minimal in trade negotiations, and Boston needed to dump him to get where they are. Early, I know, but I want to believe Klentak is the right guy. And, I just saw the post on Quinn. Love him and what he brings. Maybe the per diem in the Majors buys him good health!
I just hope when it's over, the GMs new nickname won't be "Krickets" Klentak. He has much to show me. The easy move is to pick up a safe rental. I need to see him creatively improve this roster. The Reds are the Reds. The Red Sox next week, OTOH….
luckily they only play the red sox twice, and id leap for the heavens if they split.
remember, they are up 2.5 games and a lot can happen in the next 2 months, but they finish with 7 of their last 11 against the braves, its hard to see a scenario where the division doesn't come down to those 2 weeks
Yes, a split in Boston would be fine, but HOW the team fares against the best lineup in baseball is more important.
Actually we play them 4 times, two 2 game sets.
PhilliesForever says:
@matt13 "What I want most is a reason to believe in our GM" Here's a tip: just open your eyes and watch this year's team. Their success is due in no small part to the GM and the manager whom he hired.
Forever, I have become more impressed with Gabe Kapler as the year has progressed. He takes chances that have paid off especially in the Nationals and Dodgers game where he used a starting pitcher in relief. Klentak's acquisitions have been okay but not great.
PhilliesForever, nothing wrong with your point of view, but I don't give him the credit I give the players and the Manager. I ahve watched most of the games. Yes, Kapler was a good hire, Yes I like the acquisition of Arrieta, but it will take much more than that for the team to be successful. And, one of the hallmarks of a good GM is to adjust when your team is better than you thought, and help them at the trade deadline.
IMO, the 2 players who pose as keys to the success of the last 2 months of the season are Franco and Williams. We all pretty much know what to expect from the top half of the lineup. Kingery and Alfaro are feeling their ups and downs through the season. But Franco and Williams can't be fools gold right now if Klentak decides to stand pat at the deadline. I personally feel better about Williams than Franco, whose roller coaster we've been following for four years now.
Ken Rosenthal just tweeted that virtually every contender is interested in righty reliever Ryan Pressley from MINN. 2nd highest spin rate in MLB, 69 Ks in 47 ip, very cheap and under control thru '19. Would love to see the Phillies get him along with Escobar as our answer to the IF. What would it cost us in prospects?
Maybe not the Braves…they made their move today for relief help.
MLBRosterMoves…..@MLBRosterMoves
.@Braves acquire LHP Jonny Venters from #Rays for international signing slot.
Don't think they are done – Braves, I mean.
Yeah…understand that Marcus Stroman interests them,along with Adrian Beltre.
Agree 8mark – problem is – when will Twins decide to sell ? It appears that Phils are more interested in adding to the team now and in the future ? Frankly, if you are going to spend prospect capital why not think for the longer run ?
8mark…understand Phil's top scout man, Charlie Kerfeld. was hanging in Beantown watching the Sox and Twins lately….Pressley may be the target…..maybe also Eduardo Escobar …or both
Thank you, Romus! Exactly what I wanted to hear. At this point, that combo would impress me as a significant upgrade. Was hoping Vasquez would be available but doesn't look like it now….unless Pirates sink this weekend but even so, still doubt it.
8mark…..I guess he flew out of Beantown and is on the move again
‏@Ken_Rosenthal
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Charlie Kerfeld, top #Phillies scout, is watching #Rangers' Double A Frisco club tonight. RHP Jake Thompson started for Frisco.
7:06 PM – 27 Jul 2015
sorry 8mark…old archive tweet from Rosenthal….hamels trade back then was the topic that time
8mark…..hopefully I got the dates correct this time:
@MikeBerardino
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#Phillies superscout Charlie Kerfeld is at Fenway Park tonight.
RHP Kyle Gibson on the mound for #mntwins. Longtime favorite of former #mntwins GM Terry Ryan, now a PHI special assignment scout.
Well, if Gibson is a target, with Pivetta going tonight, that fits the notion that a new SP would replace Nick who would move to the pen? I'm just supposing here. But a major deal with the Twins to bring Escobar, Pressly and Gibson?? That would be something.
Quinn, Altherr, and Cozens are the bench upgraded
*upgrades (autocorrect is brutal lately)
Don't think Cozens returns before September. Kingery would move to the bench if we acquired a SS. Who knows where Crawford fits into all this….
"…….if we acquired a SS"…. read posibilities asar the three FA shortstops…Freddy, Iglesias and Hechavvaria
read posibilities asar…WTF.
"real possibilities are"
Excitement index on any one of those – 👌
S***! Escobar is going to the Dbacks….another guy we missed getting. C'mon! You can't bring a knife to a gunfight, Matty.
Or like what Tuco (Eli Wallach) said in the Good, the Bad and the Ugly, to the one armed man about to kill him in the bath tub. "If you're going to shoot, shoot….don't talk."
Matt's strategy must be to let this year roll on as is, save his bullets for next year. To me, it was manny or bust. The team could use upgrades but I don't think it will change the outcome of their season very much either way. Get into the playoffs and see what happens. I'll take the bullpen help, I'm ok with no positional/bench upgrades.
One issue….Phillies are now in first place.
Odds are high in their favor that they will win their division and make the playoffs ….63.4%
https://www.fangraphs.com/standings/playoff-odds
But just suppose Matt K makes no moves…and the Phillies miss out on the playoffs.
That will haunt him.
Sdchpl says:
It's a good thing Middleton decided to " make a big splash" otherwise we might not be doing anything at the "deadline"
Middleton apparently forgot to send Klentak the memo.
Maybe I missed it … but … I don't think anyone promised a "big splash" at the trade deadline. I think Manny Machado was their big target. When the Dodgers outbid them, the Phillies began planning for their "big splash(es)" this winter.
I'm pretty sure Klentak will still make a move or two over the next four days. He'll probably bring in a bench bat (Granderson or Jones) and probably a LHR (maybe Diekman). Those moves shouldn't cost very much. They can hold onto their prospects and deal them either this winter or most likely, next summer (when the Phillies are a more serious WS contender).
I think he may be referring to the Dec and January signings of Santana and Arrieta. when he refer to 'a big splash'.
If not….then maybe it was sarcasm.
I'm still thinking Zach Duke and Adam Jones. Honestly that wouldn't be terrible. I would have liked Escobar as well, but if I had to chose I'd take Jones over him, the Phillies need a right handed bat in the outfield to hit the lefties (especially the tough ones) Nick Williams can't hit.
So far…in a SSS of 61 PAs…Williams is holding his own vs LHPs…255/.328/.382…however he still Ks at 26% rate
The Twins got 3 class A prospects, the highest ranked was Arizona's #11. Are you kidding me?!?! We couldn't beat that? I'll be fine after a while but right now I'm beside myself.
Ken Rosenthal: Phillies acquired Asdrubal Cabrera for Kilome.
Cabrera at least cannot beat us when we play the Mets again
18 home runs A little pop that's good
Esc34aepi says:
Interested to see the dynamic Cabrera brings, with JPC and florimon not too far off in the distance, obviously trevor ploufe is gone but not sure who else gets the axe. I will definitely miss Kilome, thought he would make a great reliever.
Seems like a lot to give up for Cabrera. Number 10 prospect for a small upgrade to the bench.
It seems to me they are not as high on him as once were
I think Kilome is a little more than I thought i would cost for the Phillies to acquire Cabrera but if it's only 1 for 1 straight up than when compared to the recent Twins trade with the D'Backs involving Escobar I can't complain.
I did think heading into this trade deadline season Kilome and Gamboa were the best trade-able prospects in term of value and being expendable.
In the end I'm totally fine for a 1 of 1 deal. Wonder what everyone else thinks.
Also, following Matt Winks tweets, if he had Kilome around the same spot as Spencer Howard, I'd trade Kilome over Howard.
Mets will need to 40 protect Kilome also in November or risk losing him.
Good trade IMO. Also he's insurance against Franco going back into the tank.
If MLB.com has Kilome #10 for the Phillies where do we suppose they rank him for the Mets?
#7?
already stuck him at #5
Feels like fans pressured them into making a move. Kilome isn't a significant piece, but I'm not thrilled to say the least. Punting Kilome for a mediocore rental player doesn't seem like great value. Of course I hope I'm wrong.
If Klentak was pressured by fans to make a move, then he really sucks as a GM.
I agree the Mets got pretty good value (Kilome) for a rental player (Cabrera), but it's not a terribly one-sided trade by any means. While Kilome still has some upside, he has been mostly "meh" at AA and is probably destined for the bullpen. I don't love the trade because I feel like the Phillies should have gotten more for Kilome, but I understand it, and Kilome is expendable IMO.
frankk says:
Since he was on the Phillies 40 man roster, think Mets will have to put him on 40 man roster now. They can option him to minors if they want.
Correct…..and must remain there or they could lose him in December
Yes. They would have to pass him through waivers to get him off the roster. Hw would surely be claimed.
GOod trade not facing him is
Plus.
Like the trade – Cabrera is having a good offensive year, can play various positions, not necessarily good, but he will fit in nicely with the offense and can be subbed for later in the game. He is flat out hitting this year though. Wonder if his locker will be next to Ramos ? Has a flair for the dramatic ! Kilome seems to have hit a wall of sorts with his command – I think Phils have many other pitchers like him or better. Doubt whether he would retain that # 10 prospect status – and as said above it is only 1 for 1.
Though AC is a rental, Kilome must be protected in November by the Mets and could be lost in the Rule 5 draft if not.
So they have to make a decision.
And…..not facing Cabrera as a Met in the next 11 games this season vs the Mets is a plus in itself.
asdrubal's .817 OPS would make him second on the Phils. Before this, if Hernandez or Franco got hurt, you were kind of screwed, so good insurance there, but how bad will he be at short, and how much will Gabe put him out there?
And his -12.3 uzr/150 would be the worst of any Phillies infielder with 200 innings at a position and that was Cabrera playing 2b. He is much more likely to play SS here which could be even worse.
I think it's a fair trade for both teams. Cabrera should help the Phillies win a few games the rest of this season (and hopefully the playoffs). Kilome has been passed by a handful of Phillies pitching prospects, but he still has a rather high ceiling, and could help the Mets as early as next year.
I think another thing to consider is who would have had to come off the 40 man roster for Cabrera? Maybe Rios who has been underwhelming. But someone had to. Trading Kilome kind of solves that issue
I think they'll send down Valentin for Cabrera. Rios as stated above would be the next 40-man casualty.
After that it's anyone's guess.
I still want Adam Jones and Zach Duke. Plus Eickhoff and Florimon coming back would mean 4 extra 40 man spots. Maybe not possible.
Again, tonight is proof positive that Pivetta belongs in the bullpen. Nasty strikeout stuff, but doesn't play out well more than once through the opposing lineup. Season ERA just under 5.00, calls for an upgrade in the rotation.
Kyle Gibson perhaps?
I count up to a dozen comments dissing Pivetta as a starter and/or assuming he'd be the SP out of a job if they get a Starter. I totally understand the sentiment (and 5 ER tonight does not help), but here's what I see…
2nd year in the majors – will be 1st full year.
Entering tonight a 3.56 FIP and 3.36 xFIP!
.341 BABIP
45.0% GB%
27.9% K rate.
6.9% K rate.
132 K in 101.7 IP. (now 144 K in 107.7 IP)
4.07 K/BB (now up to 4.18)
2.1 WAR
If this was the profile of an SP we traded for we'd be hooting and hollering! I know, I know, we'd be infurated by the (now) 4.85 ERA. But let's remember there are ups and downs in every season for every player, especially still young players. (i.e. At the end of May he had a 3.26 ERA any many pundits were saying he was the Phillies #2) Personally, I continue to be excited about the SP that Pivetta can be!
Phillies interested in Gallo wow never thought that. Anyway next up sp,RP,maybe vet catcher.
Do the Phils have inside info about the DH coming to the NL next year? Gallo doesn't make much sense
A bench of Kingery, Quinn, Knapp and Gallo would look pretty exciting. And a lot more potent than the one we've been having.
A Gallo arrival probably seals Cozens' exit fate with the Phillies.
In fact he would probably be part of the trade – complete redundancy, except Gallo's is obviously more accomplished and probably quite a bit better
I would offer Cozens, Anderson and Irvin for Gallo and Diekman.
Wow !!! Joey Gallo is really interesting.
I know he only hits ~.200 and K's at an ungodly clip (<35%) … but … he's still just 24 YO, he's left handed, and he might launch 50 HR's at CBP.
What are you going to do with him defensively ? A lot depends on whether you feel Gallo can still play some/a little 3B. If so … maybe Gallo starts 40 games in RF, 20 games in LF, 20 games at 1B, and 20 games at 3B. He would serve as your primary LH PH for the remaining 62 games.
What would he cost ? I think the Rangers would demand more than what 8mark proposed above (Cole Irvin, Drew Anderson, and Dylan Cozens). Gallo is still just 24 YO, doesn't reach arbitration until 2020, and doesn't hit free agency until 2023. Would you deal Ranger Saurez, Drew Anderson, and Dylan Cozens for Gallo and Jake Diekman (rental) ?
Or worse yet … Texas might insist on the Phillies taking Shin-Soo Choo as part of that deal. Choo is 35 YO, plays a lot of DH, and is under contract,for two more seasons at 21 million per year. Would you trade Cole Irvin, Drew Anderson, and Dylan Cozens for Gallo, Diekman, and Choo ?
For me … There's no way I want anything to do with Choo.
If the deal was for only Gallo and Diekman, I'd give up Ranger Saurez, Drew Anderson, and Dylan Cozens.
Well, the Phillies can afford to eat Choo's contract, right? May be worth considering if they can acquire Gallo and rent Diekmann for Cozens (who is a much lesser version of Gallo) and a couple good but relatively low ceiling arms. Doubt it would ever happen, but it's interesting.
I like Jake D.
Admire his dedication on coming back from colon surgery.
However, he still has trouble finding the strike zone.
And that would concern me.
It will drive you nuts when a reliever comes in and walks a batter or starts every hitter behind in the count.
He has been in 45 games….19 games he has given up at least one walk..
He still has a lot of swing and miss however when the batter's start chasing.
And compared to what Adam Morgan has been doing lately……JD is probably an upgrade.
I wonder where JP stands after the Carabra trade ?
Tim…..nothing changes with JPC….Cabrera is gone in November anyway.
Coincidence? Both Asdrubal and Moustakas were moved once KC made it known Merrifield would not be traded.
No I mean this yr. I mean JP doesn't have the bat Cabrera has. JP now a bench piece.
Phillies have some time to work and think things out…JPC is just now taking cuts in the cage…..so he may be a few weeks away from being activated.
He also has options…so he could stay at LHV for a few weeks also in August.
Cabrera's bat and veteran experience is a plus.
Gallo makes no sense whatsoever. No plate discipline. All homeruns little else. I don't believe they have any interest at all.
Perhaps. Two Texas news outlets reported it.
Rangers would probably want pitching.
Their top three prospects are all OFers.
However, if Profar was in a deal with Gallo I would think a little more about it.
Profar would only add to the IF/utility logjam what with JPC, Asdrubal, Kingery, etc.
Yes…..but also a more opportunity to trade some of them.
Cabrera is gone in a few months anyway.
Then again….add Manny at shortstop in December , as they seem to be planning on doing, just compounds things more for next season.
For fear of an uprising, I won't mention the one middle infielder most likely to be traded. But that would only address 2b long term. The left side is a riddle wrapped in an enigma. If Manny signs here, then JPC is gone unless MM plays 3b, which means Franco would be dangled again.
With Santana entering his 2nd year, I wouldn't be shocked if he is shopped at some point. Hoskins staying indefinitely in LF has become gradually less appealing.
The one sense Gallo (and his 25 HRs so far this season despite a sub-Mendoza BA) does make IMO is raw power off the bench. Plus he's under control through 2022. At some point between now and then, the rest of his game might take flight. If not, he's low risk. In any case, it probably won't happen.
Just for fun dept: Jim Duquette of MLB suggests different packages from various teams for Harper should he unlikely become available. The Phillies? Similar to that for Machado – Medina, Haseley and Dohy.
Santana not going anywhere . Hoskins goes to 1st who's replacing Santana bat and power.
Agree. The Phillies are somewhat offensively challenged as it is. Trading one of the team's better offensive players doesn't compute, unless the return is a outfielder with equal or better offensive production, allowing Hoskins to move to 1B.
Asdrubal playing ss tonight and batting 5th. Valentin sent down to AAA.
An offensive upgrade over Kingery, but makes a bad defensive team even worse.
A week ago (right after the ASG), I mentioned that I believe Mike Trout envisions himself as a Phuture Phillie (2021). Here's more proof he is all Philly/S Jersey. His wife is from Millville, his 300 acre home is here, most of his friends (outside of Tyler Skaggs and Garrett Richards [who the Phillies should sign to a TJ rehab contract this winter]) all still live in Millville, and now we know Mike still patronizes his local barber.
Who would you bring with you if your team was in the Super Bowl? If you're @MikeTrout and it's the @Eagles, you bring your barber of course. pic.twitter.com/ThMMFRPjDL
— E:60 (@E60) July 27, 2018
Mike Trout wants to win, and the Phillies are in a much better situation for him to that.
At this point, the longer the Angels fail to qualify for the playoffs, the better.
Yeah. The clock is definitely ticking on Arte Moreno. I'm sure he's hoping to lock Trout up by the end of next season. If the Angels miss the playoffs again in 2019, that gives Trout the perfect excuse to say, "Thanks, but no thanks. I want to win." At that point, Moreno has to trade Trout (very unlikely), or sell the farm and/or spend wildly in free agency to try to get the LAA into the postseason in 2020.
And … TBH … by that time the allure of returning home and playing for what could already be a dominant team (featuring MM and Ryhs Hoskins in the middle of their lineup) might too be much for Moreno to overcome.
At the start of this year, I thought the chance of Mike Trout playing for the Phillies in 2021 was about 45%. I've become more optimistic. I'd now up the chance to about 60% Trout is patrolling CF in CBP in 2021.
Lets hope it works out like that.
… and … Mike Trout has now retweeted the ESPN post. I think he's trying to slowly let Angels' fans know that he's outta there in two years, and headed back to Millville/Phillies !!!
#FlyEaglesFly https://t.co/to4FwZ4YHN
— Mike Trout (@MikeTrout) July 28, 2018
Steve (Tampa) says:
How excited should we be getting about 17 yr old Luis Garcia who is carrying an 8% BB rate and 9% K rate in 108 PA with the Gulf Coast Phillies this season? Not to mention a .385 average.
Signed for $2.5 million out of the Dominican Republic, Garcia was ranked in the top 10 on MLB Pipeline's Top 30 International Prospects list last year and as high as 4th on other lists if I recall correctly. Known mostly for his glove work at the time of his signing, particularly his powerful throwing arm, Garcia is now carrying an elite offensive profile after his first 100+ professional plate appearances.
Let's hope he develops gap to gap power in the coming years. Meanwhile he is off to a sensational start to his professional career.
Would be nice if the Phillies could have a Latin position player as a 'fast-burner' thru their system like the Braves (Acuna/Albies) and Nats(Robles/Soto) have had.
And he is a natural switch-hitter which is also a plus.
Hope he does make MLB.com eat their words to some degree on his developmental pace.:
"This isn't the kind of investment that brings a quick return. The Phillies knew they were in it for the long game when they signed Garcia. Now it's time for him to start his long path up the organizational ladder."
Romus, you're reading my mind!
It's been asked on this site why we don't ever get a Soto/Albies/Acuna type. While I'm (and I believe you're) thrilled with what we've gotten out of LA, there is still desire for the one big stud who burns up the system.
I've thought about that a few times as I've watched Luis Garcia's start. It's WAY too early I know, but it's nice to have such hope!
Yeah….Phillies paid a lot for Garcia…..hope he comes around.
The Braves signed Ronald Acuna for a $100,000 bonus in July 2014. They signed Ozzie Albies for $350,000 in July 2013. And they signed Johan Camargo for $42,000 in July 2010.
Soto was over a million by the Nats….but Robles was $225K.
Time for the Phillies to get some luck in those regards for a full-time player.
Wawa Mike says:
I like the Cabrera trade even though Crawford will be back soon. Infield depth, and a professional bat can't hurt. Coupled with the addition of Quinn, and his many talents, I feel very confident for the stretch run. I can't see the Phillies having "real" interest in Gallo, but Adam Jones could be a very nice fit. With all of the top relievers out of the picture, I'm still hopeful that Klentak can find another arm for the pen.
These past two losses have been painful, but the Dodgers have helped us out. We're in first place at the end of July. The hitting has been average at best, the defense has been bad, and even the starting pitchers are starting to show some flaws, but this team keeps on winning.
It's very frustrating to watch this team not hitting. But not hitting BAD pitching like Cincinnati's is unbearable. And squander the chance to pull away from the Braves who are getting their heads handed to them by LAD. Even the Nats might decide to buy instead of sell because we can't beat a last place club.
Is it too much to ask for the Phillies FO to multi-task….while searching for another MLB piece before Tuesday….why not cull the prospect herd for some added int'l money….as Brian Cashman of the Yankees is doing.
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/07/white-sox-acquire-caleb-frare-from-yankees.html
I get your point, but to be fair, back in spring training Klentak did trade Ricardo Pinto to the White Sox for international bonus pool money.
Klentak traded Pinto in March. That international money went towards the 2017 J2 class. In addition, IIRC, Pinto was dealt from a point of weakness because Klentak had DFA'ed him so they had to take whatever they could get for him. Cashman is shipping out guys who aren't in the Yankees plans to acquire some major sums of J2 dollars.
Now … if you want to give Klentak props for sending Elniery Garcia to the Cardinals for international money three weeks ago, I'll give you that. And in fairness to Klentak, he did more of the trade non-prospects for J2 money last season.
Yeah, I thought there was another more recent trade, but couldn't remember who – Elniery Garcia to the Cardinals. Thanks for jogging my memory.
No question, Brian Cashman is the top GM in MLB. He's playing chess, while most other GM's are playing checkers.
The Phillies have some arms in their system that could fetch $500K or a cool million.
I'd would be willing to bet Drew Anderson could return up to $1.5M from the Orioles alone.
Drew probably will not see the Phillies rotation unless 2/3 arms go down to injury simultaneously..
Agree that Anderson would sell for 1.5 million. Although, in order for that to make sense for the Phillies, they would have to have an agreement in place with a top international prospect who is still unsigned (like the NYY have with Osiel Rodriguez). I've been suggesting Klentak deal Jose Taveras (when he gets healthy) for J2 money. I even put Taveras out there as a guy who may have brought back a comp B draft pick.
Time for another starter as Eflin is now struggling and Pivetta has been ineffective. We can't protect all our prospects so trade them for a more proven starting pitching.
Sounds so simple. Who do you have in mind?
Too little too late. Come 4pm Tuesday, if Klentak's only move is Cabrera, he and the FO will be telling us and the team on the field that they aren't ready for the playoff push. And in 1st place by 1.5 games. Not very bold to me. What do you think, Gabe?
3up3kkk says:
After 4 pm on Tuesday, the FO has another month to make the team better. Don't forget that Houston got Verlander in late August, not July…
orioles have changed their philosophy on the international spending this year, trading for it instead of trading it away.
Adam Jones has apparently decided not to waive his 10 and 5 rights. Staying put for now. Not that I wanted him….
Anyway, just spitballing here – but what if the Nats fall farther off the pace in August….wonder if they would place Harper on waivers to see who bites. We definitely would if he and his sizable contract got down to us. Then it becomes a matter of talking trade. This Phillies lineup is uninspiring.
I expect the Nats will put Harper on waivers. Teams do with most of their big money players. Real question is if they would actually be willing to move him to the team that makes the claim. I expect they won't and he will be claimed long before the Phillies get the chance…
Doesnt hurt to have more resources than any other GM on the planet.
Certainly he's among the best in baseball along with the Epstein/Hoyer tandem and Luhnow. And here's something to note about Cashman – as much as the Yankees have in the way of monetary and personnel assets he rarely pays more than he should, even when the team is in need and is constantly looking to acquire undervalued assets. And he especially doesn't like to pay a lot in the way of personnel assets for players he can simply buy.
And, by the way, in the rare instances that he does go into sell mode (2016) – he freaking nails it. Yup, he's right up there and he definitely might be the best in baseball.
You must have missed the whole A-Rod re-signing which was a major fiasco. Cashman benefits from having 2 things:
1) biggest payroll available in the game
2) attractive market for FAs, both major league and international.
Cashman is one of the better GMs in the game but lets not go overboard. He's had a number of bad decisions that they were able to buy their way out of..
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