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Author Topic: What's in a name? (Read 7738 times)
deonchan
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Now even though I agree with the father who says "They need to accept a name. A name's a name." This is not a perfect PC world where people are judged solely on their own works and merit. In fact, my eyebrow arched after reading the names of their two children. (And I'm a pretty tolerant guy). It is will within their rights and choice to name their children whatever they want but it's almost like they are asking for controversy. Unless they are home schooled those kids are prime targets to be the playground picked on.
Was what ShopRite did right? No and they should be exposed for it and people responsible punished in some way.
But still, I can't say I didn't see it coming.
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Re: What's in a name?
your not the first to post about this:
http://forums.fanime.com/index.php/topic,11276.0.html
still, it is an unusual name, but some parents really should think twice about certain names.
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I found it hard to believe that the parents would name their children what they did. They knew that there would be problems because of their names but they chose them anyways. On the side of ShopRite, they did have the right to refuse to write the child's full name on the cake, it may even be possible that they thought the cake was in celebration of the other Adolf Hitler. In my opinion, they should have offered to write just the child's first name on the cake, or informed the parent that tehy felt uncomfortable writting it, and directed them to the supplies to write it themselves.
side note, either these kids are going to change their names when they are legally able to, or i think they will have serious issues later in life.
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While I, personally, would never name a child that, if these people wanted to, let them. Unless they are raising their children to start a Holocaust, which I seriously doubt, then there should be no problem. People need to not be so uptight about names. Although, from that perspective, people need to think about what having a certain name will do to a child as it grows. But still....a name does not equal a deed/action.
On a related note, ever notice how millions of people use Biblical names? I wonder if a store would deny a birthday cake if the child was named Judas? Nice name, bad connotation...hmm....okay, off-topic kinda, sorry....
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People are free to do what they want, but naming their child Aldof Hitler is just irresponsable. I don't think Nigger-Chink Crackerfaggot would fly in society's eyes, but nothing but lots of unhappy people stand in the way of naming a child that. It only means that the child and parents will face a lot of negative reactions. I think it is by no means racism to deny service to these parents. The decision is based on the social connotations of the name and not the relation of the name to the person. If someone is unrully I would deny service. Choosing a racially provocative name is something I would consider unrully, especailly something I would need to write myself and brand as my work. I would deny service.
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Nyxyin
Quote from: Runewitt on December 17, 2008, 03:13:31 PM
So true. In fact, the article seems to indicate that those poor kids are already having serious issues right now. I feel sorry for the children. I wonder if choosing such a name might border on child abuse or something like that. Society protects children from abuse, neglect, unreasonable labor, etc. Should society also protect those children from the inevitable hate and backlash their names will bring? I think this naming might be a case of the freedom of the parents interfering with the health and safety of their helpless children.
I think the parents have every right to rename themselves "Adolf Hitler" and "Aryan Nation" if they like. It's not anybody else's problem if the parents want to take the consequences of those names for themselves. But, I think the problem here is they did it to their children. When they do it to their children, they've made it society's problem because society has to live with those children even after the parents have done their damage and are gone.
Quote from: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,468250,00.html
Heath Campbell said he named his son after Adolf Hitler because he liked the name and because "no one else in the world would have that name."
I don't understand how he can believe that. The problem is very much that someone else in the world already has that name (even if he's still in the world only in spirit). If the father honestly wants a name that no one else in the world would have, then he could've used a random string generator (and a search engine to check for duplicates).
Quote from: deonchan on December 17, 2008, 02:36:33 PM
Technically, I believe ShopRite was within their legal rights to refuse service, and they don't need to give a reason. I believe that's still part of the "free market". (If Adolf Hitler Campbell applied for a job at ShopRite, on the other hand, then I believe ShopRite would be legally wrong to refuse to hire him based on his name alone.) Still, I think exposure is good, and it's why we need freedom of speech and press. The information lets the free market vote with their dollars about whether ShopRite should be punished or rewarded for it. Some people may patronize ShopRite because of their refusal, and others might boycott them. (The vast majority, however, will probably not care enough to vote either way with their wallets, and that's fine too.) We decided to believe in capitalism and democracy, so I think it's fine to just raise awareness and then let those forces do their job. I don't think any reward or punishment beyond that is necessary.
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Quote from: Nyxyin on December 17, 2008, 04:31:44 PM
They could choose to not hire him because of his name. It would obstruct business. There's ways around the laws of non-discrimination, and that is if you can prove hiring this person would be detrimental to the business. This is one such case. It's like hiring men at Victoria's Secret. It's not that they're male, it's that they would obstruct business.
Or they could just say they wouldn't hire him for another reason and that would be the end of it.
As for refusal of service. They were fully in their right to refuse service. Because a company can basically refuse service to anyone they feel they shouldn't service for whatever reason they want. Can it turn into a discrimination battle? Yeah, but it would be hard to prove on the side of the customer. And if the family pushed it, it could turn into something worse.
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Jun-Watarase
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Ah. I guess I'll just quote my post in the other thread.
Ah, poor kid. It must really suck to have a name like that, and not even get a cake for his birthday. ;_;
I feel that having a name you like is very important. It sucks to have a name you don't identify with. Like with me, I don't really have any name or alias I actually feel that I identify with, but I can't go nameless. Jun-Watarase was an IRC nick that people gave me, and since I met Mikey, he's introduced me to everyone as Jun and it sort of stuck, despite it being a rather plain and androgynous name.
I have several names. My English one is Melissa, my Japanese one is Kasumi (かすみ), and my Chinese name (which no one seems to never call me or remember) is Jiang Yee (静儀) which is read as Shizugi (しずぎ) in Jappo, which is why Mikey refers to me personally as Shizu. Also, unusually enough, my surname is Vietnamese, which is Lenh, pronounced Lin (凌) in Chinese, because of my biological father whose family migrated from Taiwan to China to Vietnam, so I have no Vietnamese blood in me. My mother is getting married soon, so my surname will thankfully change to Sun (孫) fairly soon. I don't identify with any of my given names, though, and it is a horrible feeling... not having a name you identify with, not having one word that simply represents who you are like most other people already have their entire lives. I've gone through so many nicknames and handles, it's ridiculous, and I don't even have any of those that I feel comfortable with. I'll be legally changing it soon, since my last name will change as well, but I still have yet to come across anything that I feel is right.
And for this kid, it's going to suck. Not only will he have trouble identifying himself, but he'll also be ridiculed, hated, and ostracized from society because his parents were retarded f*cks with no consideration for their kid. Though, in normal cases, it's pretty silly how some parents get worked up over choosing a name and thinking up scenarios of how kids may or may not bully them because of name. I doubt Hitler would be getting as worked up about looking for a name ike I do, though. He'll probably get extremely sick and tired of his name from his guaranteed horrible life and just give no f*cks and be like "F*ck it. I'm changing it to Jonh."
Obviously, I feel that names can be fairly important. Changing one's name legally isn't as easy as it sounds, though. The chances of getting it approved if it isn't ridiculous (like Nigger-Chink CrackerFaggot) are pretty high, but the effort it entails normally drives people not to bother. You have to go to court a couple of times, fill out a ton of forms, have an ad placed in a newspaper stating that you had changed your name, and the fee is about $500.
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I would like to state, if I had a name like Adolf Hitler...I would go through the process. Just saying.
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Choosing names is difficult. I don't like my given name, so I had thought briefly about choosing a new one, but all names had problems. If, as JunWatarase said, a name is "one word that simply represents who you are", that might help explain why the task is basically impossible. I guess, from that point of view, I can agree that parents don't need worry so much about picking their children's names to the degree that some do. It doesn't seem possible for either given names or chosen names to adequately represent any whole human until that human "makes a name for himself". "Albert Einstein", for example, does represent a person because he did many things to "make" his name. It seems to be problematic when parents choose someone else's significantly pre-made name for their children. By itself, "Albert" is just another boring, neutral, ill-fitting given name.
They were right in two ways. First, the whole "reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" angle, and second, the parents are essentially trolling with a name and explanation like that.
The name wasn't chosen arbitrarily; they gave names in a similar theme to their other children. Do they value its tone, its rhythm, its uniqueness? Maybe, but then why is it "just a name"? If they loved it on its merits, they wouldn't defend it so flippantly.
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bbbb i've got thre B's in my name, begining middle and 2/3 to the end.
its hard to say it without soudning like you've got vocal problems
Quote from: Runewitt on December 20, 2008, 12:42:14 AM
What the heck does this help further the conversation?
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Quote from: Mizuki on December 21, 2008, 01:09:53 AM
absolutly nothing, is it possible to have it deleted?
G.I.R
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Mr. Smarty-Smarts
These parents are either:
1. Complete idiots.
2. Mentally disturbed.
3. Had a long running plan for several lawsuits knowing what would happen. Don't you just see them filing a law suit
over this?
If it's #3, I'd consider it a form of child abuse. If it's any of the above, they are not fit parents.
Quote from: G.I.R on December 21, 2008, 05:03:59 PM
If it's any of the above, they are not fit parents.
Still child abuse
It was a very irrisponsible thing for the parents to do.
Wether they gave him that name out of sincerity or to start a controvesy (really that's just asking for it) it is their son who will unltimatley have to suffer for it.
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This case is so extreme that it's hard to reach any serious conclusions. But what about people who name their kids "Griffon" or "Merlyn" or even stranger things? (Yes, I have met people whose birth names are the ones I mention.)
Any name can be made fun of, but you're going to get it especially bad as a kid if your name is really unusual. There are also problems with super-common names (like Michael or Sarah), but you're not guaranteed to be ostracized as a kid like you are with a really strange name.
A lot of people give their kids relatively normal first names, but unusual middle names, so that if they really want to, they can go by the more unique middle name. My parents did the opposite. I see it like this: if you have a weird given name and a normal family name, you can opt-out of being weird. If your given name is normal and your middle name is odd, you can opt-out.
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He's ordering a birthday cake at a Jewish bakery, asking for it to be named after the man who committed the Jewish Holocaust. Think about that for a minute.
And this guy is irresponsible enough to say that little Adolf Cambell will never know who Hitler was? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
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Quote from: lying is an art form on December 30, 2008, 03:29:31 AM
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