Rebeca De Sancho Mayoral, Project Advisor for the Enterprise Europe Network at the European Executive Agency for SMEs (EASME)
13 years ago, Rebeca De Sancho Mayoral moved to Brussels to pursue the European dream: a continent of peace, solidarity, tolerance, and economic prosperity. Today she is a Business Advisor at EASME European Agency for Small and Medium Enterprises adhered to the European Commission. An interview about women without bank accounts and economic independence for female entrepreneurs!
For the past 13 years you have been working in Brussels on international projects at the European Commission. Why have you chosen a career in European policies?
I moved to Brussels 13 years ago to work for the European Commission. Coming from Spain, I looked up to Europe as the place where I wanted to live. I was passionate about the idea of one united Europe: a continent of peace, solidarity, tolerance, and economic prosperity. As a Spaniard, I was grateful when we joined the European Union in 1986 as one of the first countries. Joining Europe has had a positive impact on Spain, even in such areas as gender equality. In Spain, 30 years ago, women were not even allowed to open a bank account without their husband's permission!
Obviously, this personal perspective motivated me to support the European project so that not only Europeans, but also citizens in other nations partnering with the European Union, could benefit from it. Today, I am proud of being a European ambassador wherever I go.
Joining Europe has had a positive impact on Spain,
even in such areas as gender equality.
You have also worked with multiple neighbouring countries on an array of topics, ranging from internal markets and home affairs, to innovation and digital policy. How did your career develop to encompass policies and initiatives with these focuses?
When I was a child, my mom had a newspaper shop where I had access to many magazines and books. It was like a public library back in a time when we could not just google. I remember always reading the international section on the first pages of the newspapers. From a young age, I also longed to travel and explore the world.
Later, my first work experience was in Chile at the Spanish Commercial Office. That was the moment when I became more intrigued by the diplomatic European world. It felt like a dream that had come true when I finally came to Brussels to join the Enlargement project of the European Commission.
From there on, I understood diplomacy in a new and different way. For me, it means building up relations with other countries, long-term collaboration, and implementing meaningful projects together.
You are a current participant in the 5th Edition of the WIL Europe Talent Pool Program (WTP). How has leadership and personal development been important to you?
In preparation for this interview, I checked when I last paid for a coaching session. It was in 2014 with a private coach who seemed quite expensive to me compared to the salary that I earned at that time. However, I considered it a long-term investment. Sometimes we realize that we cannot grow the way we want, and we need help to overcome our inner barriers.
The journey of personal development starts in yourself. You need to find out who you are, accept yourself, set goals and follow them. Everyone you will meet in your career contributes to this inner journey, either in a positive or a negative way. Throughout my career, I was lucky to have unofficial mentors at my side. Today, I mentor younger women in Brussels at "Women in International Security", and I am also part of the female leadership programme at the University of California.
The most important part of all these programmes and networks is the community that I created around myself, and the support of other women. We check up on each other and share where we are going in our professional and personal lives. Connecting with others is a way to build and expand your career network.
The journey of personal development starts in yourself.
You need to find out who you are, accept yourself,
set goals and follow them.
Do you have any inspiration and motivation for other women?
We all have inner doubts that hold us back in our careers; even Michelle Obama discussed this. It also happens to men, although they talk less about it. I believe whatever happens in your professional or personal life, it will teach you something. Stay true to yourself and believe in yourself.
Life is not linear, and your career path will have ups and downs with bumps, but if you trust the process and believe in yourself, you will make it to the finish line with integrity, courage, and passion.
You are a relentless advocate for gender equality, and even wrote your master's thesis on the topic. You are also a founding member of "Women in International Security Brussels". Where does this passion come from?
Ever since I was a child, I noticed the differences between girls and boys. At that time, I just could not name or frame it because the awareness of gender issues did not exist. There are many rules for being a woman and society set a standard of rules, and, dos and don'ts. Even though all women in my family were working outside the home, they were still doing most of the housework and, carrying more of the burden than men.
There has always been an internal battle in me, trying to understand why women do not live the same way as men. The definitive eye-opener was the economic aspect: financial inequalities between men and women manifest themselves as not only unequal pay, but women are also promoted less often than men and fear asking to be paid what they are worth. When we look at single parents in Europe, we see that 80% of them are female. Consequently, the risk of poverty is much more dramatic for women. These gender injustices triggered me to support women and fight for equality. If we want to close gender gaps, it requires policy interventions that enhance women's economic opportunities and outcomes.
If we want to close gender gaps, it requires policy interventions
that enhance women's economic opportunities and outcomes.
What has the European Commission done for women's independence, and women in finance and entrepreneurship?
We have a clear-cut objective: economic independence for female entrepreneurs. There are a lot of factors, such as reconciling business and family that make entrepreneurship a less attractive option for women than for men. The European Commission is working with EU countries to overcome these barriers and encourage more women to start their own companies.
Concretely, we are trying to build a community of female entrepreneurs around Europe, connect organizations, and raise awareness on this topic. There is funding available and we host events, workshops, and webinars. We deliver training and provide mentoring sessions to promote success stories.
Additionally, we created several tools such as networks and the e-platform called WEgate to help women become entrepreneurs and run successful businesses. Every year we award the EU Prize for Women Innovators and, obviously, we work to maintain gender parity on the European Innovation Council Board as well as the funding granted.
Reconciling business and family makes entrepreneurship
a less attractive option for women than for men.
Which talent would you like to have and why?
I admire tennis players because of their capacity to focus and keep concentration during important moments of their performances. Although some of them are extroverted and very active, they know how to maintain control under high pressure.
In his book "The Inner Game of Tennis," Gallwey discusses personal development and inner blockages. He describes the constant conflict of the two players we have in ourselves: the conscious one who knows all the techniques and the unconscious mind. To truly play at your best, you need to quiet your conscious mind by letting go of judgment. Then trust your unconscious mind to do what it does best.
Tennis teaches invaluable life lessons that will apply to just about anything you pursue for the rest of your life.
To truly play at your best,
you need to quiet your conscious mind by letting go of judgment.
Siham Soulaimani, Diplomat – Legal Counsellor, French Ministry of Foreign Affairs
We had the pleasure of interviewing Siham Soulaimani, Legal Counsellor and Diplomat at the French Ministry of Foreign Affairs. She discussed with us her views on diplomacy in a post-pandemic world, the challenges of diversity and inclusion, and the value of connecting with women from different careers and backgrounds through networks such as WIL Europe.
Since 2017, you work at the French Ministry of Foreign Affairs. What reasons made you choose this path?
As a European jurist, I had my first experience in the diplomatic field through European institutions, in particular during my internship in the European Court of Justice and my one-year experience in The Hague. I quickly understood I wanted to become a civil servant and represent my country at an international level.
Working in a multicultural and cosmopolitan environment, carrying the voice of my country, and having an impact on transnational issues have led me to choose this career.
As Board Member of the association La Cordée, what do you think is the main problem that needs to be fixed in order to achieve more diversity and equal opportunity in the public service?
In the past months, the question of more diversity, equality, and inclusion in France has been in the center of the debate. Both the public and private sectors face the challenges of inclusion and representativeness of translation.
Despite its principles and the development of measures on these themes, the public sector has still not managed to obtain concrete results: the example of equality is relevant: the trend that senior positions are reserved for the male elite. Our society tends to think of men as a legitimate source of authority. After years of continuous professional learning and teachings, the situation is certainly evolving but unfortunately not as quickly as it should. An example that we can find in practice nowadays in many institutions and companies is the existence of pools of experts.
The pool of experts consists of people from different backgrounds while achieving the diversity of genders, regions, academic background and disciplines and in this way you create a diverse balance of candidates.
Awareness seems to be emerging and I think that to really change things, there are first of all the psychological barriers of the actors that must be removed. For example, we have to question the recruitment criteria and profiles sought by the public sector: we have to recruit talents who are representative of our society.
We have to recruit talents who are representative of our society.
What challenges did you encounter during your career in terms of gender inequalities and lack of diversity and how did you overcome them? Did you have any role models or figures that inspired you to pursue your career?
I was never directly confronted with anti-feminist or anti-diversity discourse. However, indirectly I did face some situations in which I felt that I was not treated like my colleagues equally when yet I had the same qualification and experiences.
An example from such indirect confrontation was that I received excuses for not inviting me for important meetings or that I was expected to argue more to make an objective statement. In both situations, I felt excluded and I learned from my experiences for instance to be more proactive in asking to be associated in all the meetings, as I believe that this is a way to tackle issues of inclusion.
I have been fortunate to meet several women who have somehow motivated, helped, or inspired me. My role models are the women I met during my professional experiences: my colleagues in the administration, volunteers during my associative activities, former mentors, or even the women whom we have the opportunity to meet during events organized by the WIL for the talent pool program.
They inspire me with their determination, personality, expertise, and organizational skills. These women showed me that it is possible to lead a good career while having a rich personal life. With their different approach, they allowed me to learn and to think about my own career and the path I want to take in the future.
How has your experience with WIL inspired and encouraged you to create more opportunities for yourself and future women in your field?
Being in a program among women who are inspiring, experienced and have a genuine interest in giving advice has been helpful and refreshing. Working in the public sector, the WTP program gave me the opportunity to meet women with different careers, backgrounds, or approaches.
I never had this kind of opportunity before and I feel fortunate to be surrounded by positive energy.
I believe deeply in the concept of role model. As a volunteer, I already tried to connect people to help them fulfill their goals and to coach others to enter the public sector. It's a long-term job but the results are worth it. In a sense, it is to give back what I have been given.
The main qualities required in my profession are certainly thoroughness and the ability to adapt to different situations. This calls for being proactive and having a capacity for rapid analysis of issues and challenges. In order to be a good diplomat, you must also have a taste for diversity and project yourself into other cultures to understand them.
I think that being able to adapt has been my strength throughout the years. On a personal and professional level, I had the chance to experience different working environments, with different expectations and a renewed positioning. Each time, the beginnings represented a challenge, but learning strengthened my ability to be agile and to adjust.
How do you think diplomacy and international relations will be affected by the covid-19 pandemic?
Beyond the current situation, diplomacy has in recent years evolved by its means and its dimension. Immediacy has taken a prominent place in bilateral and multilateral relations thanks mostly to technologies, which led to adapt to a new tempo and learn to react to new emergencies.
Regarding global crises, they affect diplomatic relations because by their nature they question our system and the way it is run. Just like the crisis in 2008, the current crisis has revealed new fragilities and has been surprising.
In the short term, the covid-19 crisis has been indicative of certain underlying trends, exposing new ruptures and defining new challenges. In the future, the biggest challenge in international relations will be to adapt to the aftermath of consequences.
But in the long term, the new lines drawn after the crisis could prove to be only the continuity of current diplomatic relations with different intervention methods and tools.
In the short term, the covid-19 crisis has been indicative
of certain underlying trends, exposing new ruptures and defining new challenges.
What is your personal motto?
Be true to yourself. My experiences taught me that to meet the challenges you need to be passionate and work hard. I have learned that despite your best efforts sometimes you will never be what people expect. But your difference can become your strength, it depends just on how you present it to the others.
Your difference can become your strength,
it depends just on how you present it to the others.
Pauline Derrien, E-Health Manager, Orange Consulting
Pauline Derrien is a manager at Orange Consulting for the E-Health sector. She works extensively with hospitals, pharmaceutical groups and health insurance companies leading their digital transformation. We discussed what innovation looks like in the healthcare sector, the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic for medical professionals and how Pauline is striving to make women's voices heard.
Can you describe your current role as EHealth manager at Orange Consulting?
I have worked for Orange Consulting in the Ehealth sector for 9 years and I have been a manager for a year and a half. Our role is to help our clients from the health sector in their digital transformation. Our customer base is varied; we work with pharmaceutical companies, hospitals, health insurance companies and so our projects vary from developing custom-made solutions such as chatbots to deploying software throughout an organisation.
As a manager, my role can be defined by 3 areas; I sell our consulting projects, I act as a project manager for these projects and I coach the different consultants we work with. The health care team is very small, and so depending on the project I often bring on board other consultants from Orange and guide them throughout the mission. Our approach is unique because we are not healthcare specialists, meaning that we take ideas and inspiration from other sectors which is not something that the healthcare field is used to but is very popular with our clients!
Our approach is unique because we take ideas and inspiration from other sectors which is very popular with our clients
How are new technologies influencing the ehealth sector? What does innovation look like in this field?
The E-health sector is quite late in terms of innovation. A lot of new technologies are being developed for the health sector however because of strict regulations it takes a long time for these technologies to appear on the market. Today, even though you can book a doctor's appointment or access or medical files online the majority of people do not use this. There are numerous apps that exist to help us track our health, as well as 3D printing which is gaining popularity. However, such technologies are not immediately accepted or promoted by the wider medical community which is why they are only used on a small scale.
In a country like France, where healthcare and social security is heavily funded by the state, new technologies require extensive financial investment which is difficult as budgets are already small and healthcare users are not willing to pay for such services.
Following the COVID-19 pandemic, how does the ehealth sector need to respond? What changes would you like to see in the post-covid19 world both in France and internationally?
The COVID-19 pandemic has accelerated activity for the Ehealth sector. The number of virtual appointments has exploded during the pandemic; even doctors who were previously reluctant have been forced to work this way and have seen that it can be successful.
Secondly, data-sharing should have become more widely used especially for research linked to COVID-19 however we are seeing much reluctance on the part of hospitals and pharmaceutical companies to transfer data and knowledge amongst themselves. Conversely, within organisations we are seeing an increase in shared collaborative tools with many hospitals installing software facilitating collaboration between remote and on-site employees. Finally, during this crisis healthcare professionals have to make quicker decisions which I hope will continue in a post-COVID world.
During this crisis healthcare professionals have to make quicker decisions which I hope will continue in a post-COVID world
More generally, what will the world be like after the Covid-19 crisis according to you?
We have seen a lot of solidarity during this crisis and we should try to keep this in a post-COVID world, not only solidarity between people but also institutions, the public and private sector, and different organisations. I feel that this has been the best response to the crisis but also will be fundamental in moving forward from this pandemic. Meals have been distributed to the homeless, doctors and nurses have received snacks and hand cream to help during their long shifts, which I hope will stay with us.
I had a lot of hope at the beginning of the pandemic that it would help with the green transition, for example the drastic drop in CO2 emissions we have seen. I would like to see a stronger emphasis from governments on this issue to ensure that moving forward all companies and institutions are committed to the ecological transition.
You are now a manager at Orange Consulting. What have you learned since becoming a manager and what has been the biggest challenge?
I was lucky to have a lot of management training when I took on this new role which was very useful. I work in a small team of 8 and manage one consultant, however I trained with Orange managers who lead teams of 40 or 50 people which was a valuable experience. As a manager, I always try to keep in mind four key qualities: common sense, empathy, adaptability and listening. During lockdown, we have been conducting short daily meetings of 30 minutes in our team to help manage our workload but in general our consultants are very autonomous and are used to working independently so thankfully lockdown has not affected our work too much!
As a manager I always keep in mind four key qualities: common sense, empathy, adaptability and listening.
You co-founded the network 'Femmes de Santé', a platform for women working in the health sector. Why is it important for you to promote and support the role of women in this industry?
In the health sector, 50% of doctors are women however they represent only 15% of professors of medicine and only 7% of professors of surgery. This is a very clear example of inequality within the health sector and I wanted to try and make a difference. We decided to create a network for healthcare professionals-both men and women- to share ideas and initiatives around supporting women in this sector. We have an annual talent programme including 13 women who are making a difference in their profession.
Last year, for example, we had a participant who created an association for clowns in hospitals as well as a doctor researching rare diseases. The idea is to give visibility to these women and promote the great work they are doing, not only to help other women currently working in this field but also to inspire and encourage young women to work in healthcare.
You are also a strong advocate for more diversity in tech, having played an important role in Double You, Orange's network for more diversity. Could you tell us more about this initiative and the work you are doing there?
Doubleyou was created in 2011 as a diversity network for Orange Business Services, and I joined the Chair committee in 2016. It is a network created by employees for employees, completely independent of the corporate HR department which for me makes Doubleyou unique. We have three main approaches to support diversity; facilitating access for women to higher jobs, promoting a balance of men and women in all services across the company and also encouraging a stronger balance between professional and private lives.
Our main activity is to organise events for our members (10% are men!), such as breakfast meetings on diversity, workshops on personal development, annual conferences for Women's Day and networking events with DoubleYou groups internationally.
We usually end our questionnaire with a question from the Proust questionnaire. We picked this one for you: Which living person do you most admire?
I am inspired by many different people, especially those who use personal struggles and resilience to make the world a better place. I was very lucky to visit one of the Généthon laboratories which researches gene therapy for rare diseases. The President of this association, Laurence Tiennot-Herman, is an inspiration for me because of the groundbreaking work she is leading in trying to cure rare diseases.
I am inspired by those who use personal struggles to make the world a better place.
Emmanuelle Bautista, Counsellor for Services and Investment, French Permanent Representation to the European Union
Emmanuelle Bautista is a Counsellor at the French Permanent Representation to the European Union. She has worked for both the French Embassy in Berlin and the French Permanent Mission to the World Trade Organisation in trade policy and dispute settlement. We discussed how diplomacy has drastically changed over recent years, the future of international trade and the underrepresentation of women in the media during the COVID-19 pandemic.
You have held a number of positions in international trade, in particular for the World Trade Organisation (WTO) and the European Union (EU). What first attracted you to international trade and investment policy and how have your roles changed over the years?
I began to work on Trade and Investment Policy when I was posted to the Economic Unit of the French Embassy in Berlin. It was an exciting time because trade policy was at the heart of civil debate in Germany, namely because of negotiations for the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) with the US. At the same time, increasing discussions between France and Germany centered on two important issues; reciprocity of public procurement and reform of the investor state dispute settlement (ISDS). I began to work on trade policy with these subjects until I moved to Geneva to work for the French Permanent Mission to the WTO.
Here, I was in charge of market access and legal issues which were both technical and very challenging. It was also very interesting to see how an international organization like the WTO (over 160 member states) actually functions. Now, I work in Brussels for France's Permanent Representation to the EU which has enabled me to deepen my expertise on trade and investment policy.
As trade policy is an exclusive competence of the EU we have a huge responsibility defending and promoting the interests of our country. I have been very lucky that in each of my previous roles I have taken on more responsibilities and have deepened my technical skills and expertise, which definitely helps me in my current role at the EU level.
With trade policy, we have a huge responsibility
defending and promoting the interests of our country.
How have economic and commercial diplomacy changed or evolved over the last 10 years, and what key trends have emerged during this period?
Not only have economic and commercial diplomacy changed over the last 10 years but diplomacy as a whole has changed. We have a lot of crises all over the world and are always dealing with emergencies; having to react quickly, be flexible and to know everything in advance. We also have new means of communication with social media which I think has a huge impact on our work. The nature of diplomacy traditionally requires time to reflect and analyse but today we have to react quickly which is challenging for us.
For trade policy, there have also been profound changes. It has become more technical and complex and today covers areas such as non-tariff barriers, sustainability, consumer protection, labour rules and technological development. Trade policy is no longer a single area of diplomacy but rather an umbrella in relation with economic policy, financial policy, environmental policy and much more. There is also a stronger pressure and demand from the civil society on trade policy to be accountable.
Big players in international trade have also evolved, and new players have emerged. China joined the WTO 2001 and is now one of the biggest players but is also, as the European Commission stated, a "systemic rival" alongside the US who have reassessed multilateralism and their commitment to the WTO since the election of Donald Trump. Here for the EU, it has been very challenging finding a position in the middle.
I would also like to mention the changing role of developing countries who are now more engaged in negotiations for trade agreements within the WTO but still need technical assistance and capacity building in their development. We need to find a balance between this evolution but also the fact that they still need support.
Diplomacy traditionally requires time
to reflect but today, we have to react quickly.
With the COVID-19 pandemic already bringing about profound change to the world as we know it, how should international organisations respond? What role should they play in a post-pandemic world?
First of all, it is important to remember that international organisations such as the WTO are member-driven. This means that change will depend on the members proposing new initiatives.
The WTO has already launched new ideas by publishing reports on the trade of medical products and the future impact on trade as a whole. It has also asked all members to notify any export restrictions on trade related to COVID-19. This is important because transparency is one of the core principles of the WTO and will become more important as the crisis continues.
For the future, the WTO will need to go further in its cooperation with other international organisations (World Health Organisation, International Monetary Fund) and will also have to work on a new plurilateral agreement on medical products. The WTO will have to tackle other issues like digitalization, sustainability, supply chain, SME, developing countries and gender. But most of all, and this is not only a question for the WTO, a new definition of trade policy is needed.
You have worked extensively in dispute settlement for both the WTO and the EU. What roles can women play in resolving conflict and dispute?
Generally, in conflict and dispute, women have a better capacity to listen and let people speak without interruption or judgement. This, for me, is fundamental and is linked to our sense of empathy. Women have a capacity to search and look for a solution which is why we are so good at mediation. Many of my colleagues in investment policy and dispute settlement are men and I feel that many women are not comfortable studying or working in these fields because of this. As a woman you have to fight harder and longer than men, especially when it comes to finding a balance with your family life. The problem is that even though many women work in male-dominated industries, we do not see them enough.
You are very active on social media and seem committed to opening a dialogue about women in leadership. What, in your opinion, can we do to push the dialogue further and bring real change for women in leadership positions?
We not only need more visibility for women in leadership but for women in general. Currently, with this crisis, we are once again seeing an underrepresentation of women in the media. In newspapers, on TV, headlines are focused on the achievements of men during this pandemic. I am quite shocked because it feels like we don't exist; that there are no women working during the pandemic or thinking about the future. There was one newspaper headline in France which said "Thank you to them" using the male pronoun for "them" (Merci à eux) even though the photo only included women! Visibility is very important because without it how can young girls imagine working in a field where we do not see any other women?
You are an active participant of our 5th talent pool programme. What do you like most about the programme?
I like a lot of things about this programme! It was an opportunity to meet so many different women and exchange with them with openness, empathy and goodwill. This gives me a lot of inspiration, ideas and fresh air; both professionally and personally. I particularly enjoyed the speed dating session at our WIL event in Barcelona, where one woman told us about her move to the US where she decided to focus her career only on what she is good at and what she loves doing. It was completely new and refreshing to hear that focusing on soft skills could translate so well into a career!
Meeting so many different women
gives me inspiration, ideas and fresh air!
Proust question: What talent would you most like to have and why?
I wish I could stop asking myself so many questions; to be able to let go and to see what happens. Doubt can sometimes be a good motivator but overthinking too much can be dangerous!
Sasha Rubel, Programme Specialist, Digital Innovation and Transformation, Communication and Information Sector, UNESCO
Interviewed by Vera Jonsdottir
Sasha Rubel, a participant of our Women Talent Pool programme, is Programme Specialist, Digital Innovation and Transformation, Communication and Innovation Sector, at UNESCO. In our interview, she talked about her current role and what she likes best about working for UNESCO, how her creative background has contributed to her career, her vision of the post-covid19 world, and much more!
Can you describe your current role as Programme Specialist at UNESCO and what do you like about working for such a prestigious organization?
I lead our work on digital innovation and transformation, specifically projects related to digital entrepreneurship, innovation, artificial intelligence, and internet governance.
What I like most about working at UNESCO is working in a multicultural environment as I work with people from 195 countries every day, with different perspectives, backgrounds, and expertise. With a Franco-Polish mother, a Scottish-Austrian father who grew up in India, and a large part of my youth spent in West Africa due to the motorcycle racing career of my mother, I know first-hand how much cultural – and career - diversity can enrich both your personal and professional life.
I also love the fact that I can bring together, in my job, different stakeholders and build crossroads where people from the private and public sectors, civil society, academia and the technical community can come together, talk, and dream up impactful, meaningful projects – and implement them together.
Lastly, UNESCO is a great opportunity to continue to challenge myself, learn, and grow in emerging areas that are important for women's empowerment, inclusive growth, and self-determined development and I love the fact that my job allows me to harness creativity for the greater good.
UNESCO is a great opportunity to continue
to challenge myself, learn, and grow in emerging areas
that are important for women's empowerment.
Beyond your role as a Programme Specialist, you are a dancer, musician, and video artist. How has this contributed to your career?
Having been trained as a dancer, video artist and a musician, I place creativity at the heart of the way I work.
Managing a team for me is like composing music or choreographing a dance. You find the most beautiful notes inside people and put these notes together to make something even more beautiful than the individual note. This is also relevant in ensuring that my team grows together, and encourages a form of deep listening practice necessary for productive teamwork.
My creative background is also a concrete asset working in the tech sector, which needs people that come from other horizons. We do not necessarily need more engineers or more backend software developers or coders – we also need designers that think out of the box. We need a multidisciplinary approach so that tech can be inclusive and harnessed for social good at large.
Through my creative work, notably in West Africa, I learned a lot about how creative practice can be transformed through the use of new technology. This intersection of cultural diversity, collective intelligence, and artificial intelligence is a very productive space, and also underlines the ways in which technology can give communities agency to imagine and co-create the futures they want.
Lastly, the creative sector also underlines the importance of finding your own voice. For women particularly, in a sector that is dominated by men, how to take up space, philosophically, psychologically, and physically, including in our own bodies, is a crucial exercise. Being creative can particularly help us as women to find how to do that professionally in our daily lives.
Managing a team for me is like composing music
or choreographing a dance. You find the most beautiful notes
inside people and compose these notestogether to make
something even more beautiful than the individual note.
After undertaking a PHD in anthropology you worked for several years in West Africa. Can you tell us a bit about your work there and the connection between culture, technology, and development?
My relationship to West Africa goes back to my childhood. After I graduated University, I went back to Mali and Nigeria with a Fulbright Fellowship to study performance-based peer education and do research for the center for disease control and prevention (CDC). Having studied infectious disease and public health, I had planned to become a doctor – and still dance. This was at the beginning of smartphone popularity. I became interested in the ways in which technology was opening up entirely new horizons for solving local development challenges, including those related to health. And it changed my life, and career.
I went back to the Continent in 2013, when I moved to Ethiopia as Liaison Officer to the African Union. For two years, I got to actively shape the ways in which emerging technology was part of development plans at the Continental Level like Agenda 2063 of the AU, and facilitated the EU-AU Digital Economy Task Force that articulated partnership priorities between the two Organizations in the field of digital transformation. I also played a lot of music with the incredible jazz musicians part of the incandescent Addis Ababa nightlife.
In 2015, I moved to Dakar to become Regional Advisor to the Sahel. I worked specifically, in the framework of the G5 Sahel, on training military personnel on how to work with the media to combat terrorism, promote access to information, and protect freedom of expression. At a time of democratic transition in the Gambia, I had the opportunity to support the revision of the Constitution and laws related to access to information and freedom of expression. And I still found time to play music, largely because the nightlife in Dakar starts after midnight.
In Dakar, I became a part of a network of women working in the ICT Sector, and through this network, established a partnership with the Government and Orange to work together to establish training programmes for young women in coding and the development of mobile app solutions to address local development challenges. This led to the opening of a free coding school, targeting young girls, in the heart of Dakar, but also lifelong friendships with the women in this network. It taught me first-hand how important it is to work across different sectors (public and private), but also how powerful we can be when women come together and mutually support and celebrate each other.
You have been working at UNESCO since 2009. How has UNESCO adapted to the shift to digital transformation?
My response has two sides: how do we change as an organisation and in our different areas of work in digital transformation.
As an organization, I would highlight that the speed of digital innovation is quicker than any policy process of any international organisation that exists. Which means that we need to completely reinvent how we work. Therefore, digital transformation is an incredible opportunity for us to come together and reinvent how we work internally, but also how we work with our partners. It also provides a great opportunity to develop, thanks to digital tools, public policy processes that are multi-stakeholder and inclusive. Governments cannot afford to develop policies behind closed doors. We must engage all sectors and citizens, and blow open these doors. If you want to develop truly impactful policies and programmes based on real need and dialogue, everyone needs a seat at the table, and particularly women.
Concerning our areas of work, digital transformation changes how we need to work intersectorally because, for example, the question of artificial intelligence is not just a question for the ministry of science and technology. It is also a question of the ministry of culture with copyright issues, for the ministry of education with issues around self-directed learning etc.
At UNESCO, we also emphasize that we need to position particularly developing countries, women, marginalized groups and young people, to be not only consumers, but also producers, of digital solutions and innovations. So this means that solutions to sustainable development challenges won't need to be imported from offices in Paris or New York or San Francisco; they can be made on the ground.
Solutions to sustainable development
challenges won't need to be imported from offices
in Paris or New York or San Francisco;
they can be made on the ground.
Can you tell us more about your work in AI and ethics and your standard-setting instrument under development?
At UNESCO's general conference in November 2019, the 193 Member States mandated the organization to develop the first global standard setting instrument – or in other words, a recommendation – on the ethics of artificial intelligence.
This is a two-year process, and we hope the recommendation will be adopted officially in November 2021 by our Member States. It builds on some of the great work of other regional and international organizations which are working in this field like the European Union, the OECD, and the Council of Europe, as well as the IEEE and ISO.
In this framework, I am leading the development of an online platform to ensure multi-stakeholder input from the widest range of people possible and the development of a Decisionmakers toolkit to help policymakers – in government and the private sector- translate principles into practice and render them operational in AI development and deployment. Principles and frameworks on the ethics of AI exist, and some very good examples come from private sector companies like Orange, Microsoft, and Thalys. We are hoping to highlight some of these in our use cases: if we want an ethical and responsible AI, we need to be concrete about what we mean.
This recommendation will also reflect our two global priorities which is harnessing AI to ensure sustainable development in the global south, and also how we can address gender bias in the algorithms, in the systems, and in the tech sector more broadly. Women need AI, but AI needs women.
You are currently employed in the Digital Innovation and Transformation Section in the Communication and Information Sector at UNESCO. What is your department doing to address the COVID-19 Crisis?
I am leading specifically three responses at UNESCO to the COVID-19 Crisis.
The first initiative is called CAIAC, short for Collective and Augmented Intelligence Against Covid-19. It is a coalition between UNESCO, UN Global Pulse, the WHO, the AI Initiative, IBM, C3, and Stanford. We are developing a portal that will make sense of the enormous amount of knowledge and data related to COVID-19, and help navigate and translate that data into actionable insights and informed decision-making – both for policymakers and frontline healthcare workers.
Secondly, we are supporting the development of an AI-enabled mobile app that will help mitigate COVID-19 developed by the Quebec Artificial Intelligence Institute and Yoshua Bengio, who is one of the three inventors of deep learning. This mobile app will be launched as a free and open source and peer to peer solution, so it can be taken up for free and benefit countries most in need. It is also one of the only solutions to date that has ethics-by-design at its heart, and respects fundamental human rights related to data protection and privacy.
A really exciting project I am leading is the online campaign #DontGoViral. I developed this campaign with our partners, i4Policy, to combat the infodemic and disinformation around COVID-19. The campaign, launched on 1 April, addresses the urgent need to ensure access to culturally relevant and openly licensed information in local African languages in order to facilitate awareness-raising. The intent is to produce creative content that can circulate across the globe, with a focus on Africa, where populations are the most at risk given both lack of health infrastructure and lack of quality information. In partnership with 170 hubs in 45 African countries and the BBC world service, we have had more than 400 submissions from 36 African countries, with more than 54 million likes on FB and twitter alone. Our #DontGoViral playlist is proof: you can dance, learn, and save lives all at once.
What will the world after the Covid-19 crisis be like according to you?
COVID-19 will completely change the way we think about technology, education, community, and about the possibility of us coming together as a global community to work in a coordinated way for the common good.
It is also going to change how we think about women's roles in the public sphere. Women comprise the majority of frontline healthcare workers globally, meaning that female representation is vital in tackling the COVID-19 crisis. Currently, 70% of health care workers globally are made up of women but only 25% global leaders are women. Without women in leadership positions, women's issues could continue to fail to be addressed – in the crisis, and beyond.
Then lastly, one of the main questions COVID-19 raises is the need for women in leadership positions. We are currently seeing how countries that are being led by women during COVID-19 are managing the situation in a more efficient way, placing the primacy on global wellbeing instead of GDP or political gain. COVID-19 will dramatically change how we measure our growth and development, and this is also where women's leadership will play an important role.
COVID-19 will dramatically change
how we measure our growth and development,
and this is also where women's leadership
will play an important role.
More information on Sasha:
Sasha's biography
Twitter Handle: @SashaRubel
Teresa Peiro-Camaro, Associate Director, EMBA Admissions, INSEAD
Teresa Peiro-Camaro, a participant of our Women Talent Pool programme, is the Associate Director for the EMBA admissions at the global business school INSEAD, a partner of WIL Europe. In our interview, she talked about the social responsibility of leaders, introspection during the lockdown and French kissing!
Can you describe your current role as Associate Director at INSEAD?
INSEAD is one of the leading and largest business schools in the world. Our mission is to bring together people, cultures and ideas to develop responsible leaders who transform business and society. We have four campuses in Europe (Fontainebleau, France); the Middle East (Abu Dhabi) and Asia (Singapore); and in February, we opened our San Francisco Hub for Business Innovation.
Beyond our full-time Master of Business Administration (MBA) programme, we also offer an Executive MBA (EMBA). As head of the EMBA Admissions team, I am responsible for the class composition of all three GEMBA sections (Asia, Middle East and Europe) and the TIEMBA section, which is a joint programme between INSEAD and Tsinghua University based in Beijing, China.
You can think about my role as that of a gatekeeper. As soon as a candidate completes an application, my team takes over. In the pre-selection process, candidates either take an in-house test or submit their Graduate Management Admission Test (GMAT) or Executive Assessment (EA) score. The next steps include discussing a case study and passing a motivational interview.
Candidates sometimes believe that it is enough to submit a great score to make their way into the programme, but our final decision is based on their holistic application, including their personal qualities and life journey. On average, our candidates bring over 14 years of work experience. At this stage of their professional careers, executives look for more than management theories.
At INSEAD, participants embark on a transformational journey that challenges their assumptions and certainties. For example, the Leadership Development Programme with coaching sessions allows participants to receive and give feedback on a regular basis. Our programme enables them to redefine the way they think and lead.
Our mission is to bring together people,
cultures and ideas to develop
responsible leaders who transform
business and society.
The golden area of business education began in the early 50's and was long time considered as an accelerator for your professional career. How has the impact of business schools shifted during the last years? And how do business schools adapt to a changing education landscape?
During the second half of the 20th century, right after INSEAD was founded, the MBA diploma became the gold standard of business education. It was a prerequisite to attain senior management or leadership positions. Then, following the global financial crisis in 2008we observed a tremendous change. What was the change?
Today's INSEAD students have a very different collective outlook than those of a decade ago. While they may once have been largely driven by money and status, now strongly consider the societal demands for greater accountability and social responsibility in the way large and small companies conduct their business.
In that respect, INSEAD took the initiative to entirely redesign our academic curriculum . We now provide a first-class learning experience for the next generation of students, with greater focus on sustainability, ethics and social purpose. We are responsible for preparing students to make a difference through their work as responsible leaders who transform business and society.
We also have a variety of extracurricular social activities. Last year the GEMBA'19 Class, organised 'INSEAD RUN4CHANGE' to raise money for a global campaign supporting female education and empowerment around the world. We ran 20,000 kilometres and even exceeded our funding target of €20,000.
Leaders do not only
have an impact on their team
but on the whole society.
Can you explain the difference between the traditional MBA and the full-time EMBA? For which of both should I apply to evolve my career?
The main difference between both programmes would be the average age (37 vs 29 years) and length of work experience (5.6 vs 14 years). Moreover, the EMBA vs the MBA puts a different focus on self-development, maturity and defining your next career move. It is about becoming a better leader, switching to the next level, growing inside your organisation or your sector. The EMBA at INSEAD includes a Leadership Development Programme where we coach and accompany students in this personal development. We do not measure success via entry-exit salary or becoming a CEO but by the breadth and depth of their responsibilities.
In your opinion, what is the value of an MBA and is it still worth it in today's world?
I do not think that the value of an MBA has decreased, but it has definitely shifted. One day a woman came to my office whose husband had gone through the EMBA and she said to me, 'I do not know what you have done to my husband, but I want to go through the same programme. INSEAD gave me a better husband'.
After completing our EMBA program, many executives stay with their company. They do not change their employer, but rather their role. The programme gives students the opportunity for introspection and to figure out who are and what they want. We have students who worked at global companies before and have now founded their own start-ups.
Beyond your role as Associate Director, you are a licensed career coach. What would be your advice for professionals who may be worried about the impact of the Covid-19 crisis on their career?
The current context is really challenging. However, it also is an opportunity to step back, rethink and take some time for ourselves. We have never spent so much time with myself before. We pause and ponder: is this really what it is all about? Is there something we should be doing that we always wanted to do? Where are we going? What do we want from our professional life?
I am sure that the Covid-19 outbreak will trigger a lot of long-lasting changes to the way we live and work. Many people will change careers or try something new. It can help us understand that we have this one and only life.
The outbreak will trigger
a lot of long-lasting changes
to the way we live and work.
What will the world be like after the Covid-19 crisis according to you?
No one knows exactly what will come, but one thing is certain - we will not get out of this the same way we got in. I found this quote by Haruki Murakami, which describes the current context very well, 'And once the storm is over, you will not remember how you made it through, how you managed to survive. You will not even be sure, whether the storm is really over. But one thing is certain. When you come out of the storm, you will not be the same person who walked in. That is what this storm is all about.'
Society, government, healthcare, economy, our lifestyles and more - will change. Daily habits will not be the same as before. There will be more sophisticated and flexible use of technology, more remote work, and a revived appreciation of the outdoors and life's other simple pleasures.
Even our cultural habits might change. Physical distancing and wearing masks in public will be the new standards; and that will change the way we interact with each other. I am not sure if we will ever go back to 'la bise' in France. Kissing each other on the cheek to greet friends might no longer be tolerated.
Whatever the world will look like once we have overcome Covid-19, this period will last in our memories. I told my son that he will remember this period his entire life. When he is older, he will look back on the time he was locked down with his parents for several weeks.
However, I stay positive. Humans are quite inventive; they adapt rapidly and start thinking differently when they need to.
When you come out of the storm,
you will not be the same person
who walked in.
Jessica Dabrowski, Communications Specialist, Florence School of Regulation Energy & Climate – FSR Global, European University Institute
WIL had the chance to interview our talent Jessica Dabrowski, Communications Specialist at Florence School of Regulation Energy & Climate, FSR Global, European University Institute. A Polish American living in Italy, Jessica shares in this interview how her dual-citizenship has influenced her, her work at the Florence School of Regulation, the mission of Lights on Women initiative, an initiative she founded to bring more visibility to women in the energy field, and much more!
You have dual citizenship, both hailing from Poland and the United States and are now living and working in Florence, Italy. How has your background and current country of residence influenced you?
As a first-generation Polish American, I am the product of two cultures melded into one. This has shaped many aspects of my life, from my inherent curiosity and adaptability to my unwavering ability to push the boundaries of my comfort zone. My dual-citizenship opened the door to countless experiences – new places, people, cultures and career opportunities – but it was my multicultural upbringing that gave me the confidence to walk through it.
My Polish roots strongly influenced my decision to move to Europe to pursue a master's degree in European Union Policy in Florence, Italy. After I graduated, I continued my journey abroad working as a digital strategist in Vancouver, Canada and later remotely from The Hague, Netherlands. This position gave me my first taste of how digitalization is reshaping the way individuals across the globe learn, work, and live, as well as the solutions that will play a role in enabling people to adapt. I became particularly interested in the concept of 'lifelong learning' and how digitalization is transforming higher education. So much so that it took me back to Florence to work at the European University Institute's (EUI) Florence School of Regulation (FSR) to develop a portfolio of online courses, as well as a community and experience that helps global energy professionals connect, exchange and learn.
Nearly seven years after first moving to Florence, I am still here! Moving to Italy taught me how to take changes and challenges in stride, as well as the importance of true independence and re-ordering my priorities. I also learned the value of taking things slow, not an easy feat for someone who grew up right outside of New York City!
You recently transitioned into a new role as Communications Specialist of FSR Global, an initiative of the Florence School of Regulation. Can you tell us about FSR Global and the work you do?
The challenges we face today – from technology and demography to energy and climate – are transforming our societies. These challenges extend beyond borders and require unified efforts to overcome them, all while ensuring no one is left behind. This collaborative approach and vision were fundamental to the creation of FSR Global. Through the initiative, the Florence School of Regulation extends its mission beyond Europe to facilitate the development and delivery of effective energy policy and regulation in Asia, Africa, Latin America, and the Caribbean.
One way we accomplish this is through the FSR Knowledge Hub, a platform that strives to make information about energy policy and regulation open and accessible. Using digital strategies, I connect the dots between the FSR's three pillars – applied research, policy dialogue and training – and our global community of practitioners, policymakers and students. Working at the nexus of policy and academia, the knowledge we create is often highly technical and complex. Breaking it down and building bridges between our 'scientific' and 'non-scientific' audience – as well as helping the rest of our cross-functional team (e.g., our researchers) do so – is one of the most important and enriching aspects of my work.
While my responsibilities have spanned across digital learning, content strategy, marketing, and community building, I have considered facilitation my most important role. As a facilitator, I help our team, stakeholders, and community connect, engage and exchange knowledge, channelling their collective abilities to achieve common goals. As workplaces become less hierarchical and more culturally diverse and geographically dispersed, I believe effective facilitation will allow organizations to retain the best expertise and foster the collaboration and creative solutions needed to adapt to the Future of Work.
Building bridges between our 'scientific' and 'non-scientific' audience is one of the most important and enriching aspects of my work.
You founded the Lights on Women initiative that focuses on bringing visibility to women in the energy field. How does Lights on Women achieve its mission? What inspired you to establish this initiative?
A diverse talent pool will be a key driver of innovative and inclusive solutions to accelerate the energy transition and tackle energy and climate challenges our societies face. Yet the energy sector remains one of the least gender-diverse sectors in the economy.
Many impactful initiatives focus on promoting and encouraging women's participation in energy. The Lights on Women initiative aimed to complement those initiatives and to find practical solutions to relatively new problems: namely, how to respond to the dynamics of gender inequality within digital platforms.
In this context, I made it a priority to address gender balance within media content and communications at the FSR. We began taking meaningful steps to integrate a gender equality perspective into our online activities and to counteract discriminatory norms, attitudes, and unconscious biases that contribute to the under-representation of women in energy. After our first year, we saw a 30% increase in the representation of women across our dissemination channels.
The Lights on Women initiative was created to shine a light on women's expertise and make their contributions visible to the wider energy community. Three years later, it has blossomed into much more. Last year, the initiative kicked off its first annual scholarship to support women in energy, particularly in their pursuit of the technical knowledge (training) needed to advance their careers. We also offer the training and tools needed for women to best represent themselves across all forms of digital media, where their expertise can have the most reach. We hope that these targeted actions will empower women to take ownership of their knowledge and encourage them to share it, closing the "confidence-gap" that is often a barrier to participation and in turn, break the cycle that under-representation causes.
A diverse talent pool will be a key driver of innovative and inclusive solutions to accelerate the energy transition and tackle energy and climate challenges our societies face.
In addition to increased visibility, what else can help women reach tier-1 positions?
I believe that seeking out a sponsor within your organization or field at an early stage is key. Sponsors play a more direct role than mentors in the advancement of young professionals, taking meaningful and concrete actions to facilitate their career progression. A more hands-on approach to guidance, endorsements and access are especially important for female professionals, who are not earning leadership positions at the same rate as their male counterparts.
That said, it's often the sponsors who find you, not the other way around. So how can female professionals attract sponsorship? A good place to start is to nurture relationships within your organization and enlist help; be proactive in finding support and trusted co-workers, ask questions, and invite feedback. Building on this, communicate the substance of your work and value of your achievements, especially to senior colleagues (and encourage the women around you to do the same!). Take credit for your accomplishments and don't underplay your role in your team's success.
You are a participant in the fifth Women Talent Pool Program. Could you tell us about your experience and why such programs are necessary?
Programs like the European Network for Women in Leadership and its WTP program play a key role in empowering women and encouraging them to reflect on their potential as leaders. I am very grateful to be a part of a program that promotes the open exchange of diverse experiences and perspectives. The WTP program connects its members with many ambitious women who motivate each other to set the bar high and provide valuable advice on how we can take our careers to the next level. From conferences to webinars offered by the network, it has been incredibly inspiring to learn about the journey's women have experienced in high-profile positions, the challenges they have faced and the unique ways they overcame them.
Lastly, we like to conclude our interview with a question from the Proust Questionnaire: What is your motto? Why?
I don't have a motto, per se, but I would say that my perseverance and drive for self-improvement guides me. I like to joke that if one door closes, I'll find a cracked window to go through. We can plan; we can aim for perfection; we can wait until we are 150% "prepared", but life is full of uncertainty, and if you're doing it right, some failure too.
It is important to learn from failures or mistakes without dwelling on them and to focus on the bigger picture to overcome obstacles. Otherwise, we remain stuck at roadblocks instead of taking a detour (or a few) that can eventually put us back on the right road. Franklin D. Roosevelt put it best when he said, "When you come to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on."
I like to joke that if one door closes, I'll find a cracked window to go through.
Khatija Ameerally, Customer Experience Program Manager, Orange
Khatija Ameerally is a Customer Experience Program Manager at Orange, a role she masterfully acquired after formerly consulting with the Orange Group. As a talent in our WTP Program, Khatija discusses her career in customer experience, her take on a successful strategy, her vision of leadership and more!
You started your career at Orange when you were a student, first as a phone advisor, and then as a saleswoman in an Orange retail location. How did that operational experience prepare you for your future career in Customer Experience?
To work in Customer Experience, it is essential to place yourself in the customers' shoes. It seems obvious, but after having accompanied several companies, in France and abroad, I have first-hand knowledge that it is not inherently natural. Being in direct contact with customers has allowed me to better understand their expectations and needs.
This is also why our frontlines are the key to our business. If you want your customer experience strategy to be effective, a healthy employee experience is essential. Ultimately, happy employees make happy customers.
Ultimately, happy employees make happy customers.
For five years, you worked in Orange Consulting, a consulting subsidiary of Orange Business Services. In particular, you accompanied several companies in their Customer Experience strategies. According to you, what are the key components of a successful Customer Experience strategy and what should be kept in mind when developing one?
I am convinced that developing a strong Customer Experience strategy allows companies to differentiate themselves from their competitors. An effective customer experience begins before they enter a shop and continues long after they leave it.
Customer Journey Mapping is therefore a fantastic tool to assist companies in grasping the "extended" characteristics of the customer experience. Within the organisation, the customer experience strategy should involve all employees, from the salesman to the CEO. Working on customer experience transversally is a key factor of success.
Working on customer experience transversally is a key factor of success.
In 2017, you were promoted to Customer Experience Program Manager at the Group level, giving your career an international dimension. How does working with professionals from other countries enrich your experiences and the overall results of your work products?
Working at an international level with many countries in Europe and Africa allows me to meet colleagues of other cultures and diverse ways of working and engaging in practice sharing, all of which have helped me to develop my professional network and experience.
You are a participant in our 5th edition our Women Talent Pool Program, which "aims to train and promote the next generation of female leaders in Europe." Why did it seem the right moment for you to take part in such a program and what have been the key takeaways thus far?
Taking part in the Women Talent Pool Program aids in my own professional and personal pursuits, while working together and learning from other female leaders. A colleague encouraged me to apply, explaining that WIL could assist me in exploring topics such as gender equality, which is of great interest to me.
Additionally, during a professional review, I was encouraged to further develop my leadership skills and strategic vision, which was another motivation for applying to the program. WIL events, roundtables, trainings and networking sessions are very useful. When I come to a WIL event, I always feel like I am in a "caring bubble".
When I come to a WIL event, I always feel like I am in a "caring bubble".
You have a three-year-old daughter. What lessons and advice on leadership do you want to pass down to her?
I am from Mauritius, a family-oriented culture. It is an important dynamic I wish to keep with my daughter. Recently, I noticed that she was differentiating toys by gender: "Cars are for boys" or "Dolls are for girls," which I found surprising because this type of behaviour is not practised in our home. External interactions and environments can also shape a child's worldview.
I may not be able to master everything about my daughter's environment and interactions, but I will always be here to remind her the most important message I want to pass on to her: everything is possible and she can achieve anything she desires.
I will also tell her that according to me, leadership is a mix between confidence, optimism and engagement:
Confidence: be self-confident and trust the people and activity you lead
Optimism: be positive and have no limits
Engagement: show everybody that you are fully involved and that you aim to involve all the people, the company with you
Proust Questionnaire: Who is your favourite heroine in fiction?
Bridget Jones. Although she met challenges on her path, she ultimately succeeded and married Marc Darcy!
Elizabeth Oakman, General Manager, EMEA Hotels.com Brand (Expedia Group)
"When I was first old enough to read the newspaper, the area that interested me the most was the business section," says Elizabeth Oakman, General Manager of EMEA Hotels.com Brand (Expedia Group) and a Talent in our leadership program, when asked about her interest in business. With more than 15 years of experience in consulting and management, Elizabeth discusses the challenges she faced when relocating, her career, and her vision for female leadership. Read our interview to find out more!
You have studied Commerce and began your professional career in Australia. What shaped your interest in Commerce as an academic field and future professional path?
If I think back to when I was young, I always had an interest in commerce. When I was first old enough to read the newspaper, the area that interested me the most was the business section. Particularly, I was really interested in what different companies were doing to shape the lives of their consumers across the world.
After working in generalist consulting for several years, you have joined Deloitte's Mergers and Acquisitions (M&A) team in London. What were your main professional challenges after moving? How did you overcome them?
There were two big challenges that really came to life during this time of relocation and transition. The first one was the challenge of moving from Melbourne, Australia to London. From a professional perspective, in Melbourne, I was very networked as I worked very hard over the years and was trusted by my peers, partners, and clients. Upon moving to London, I had to push myself outside of my comfort zone to effectively build up my professional network.
The second challenge I encountered at the same time was moving from generalist consulting into Mergers and Acquisitions (M&A). However, I quickly realized that there were a lot of key transferable skills that I was able to apply in the new environment. There were some changes, especially in terms of the level of confidentiality and timelines associated with M&A, but the skills I already had gave me the confidence to jump in. The four years I spent working in M&A ended up being some of the most exciting work I have done in my career overall.
I had to push myself outside of my comfort zone to effectively build up my professional network.
In 2015, you joined the Hotels.com team and by 2018, got promoted to the General manager position. Could you explain how your unique professional and personal experiences shape your leadership? In turn, what professional and personal qualities do you look for in your team?
From the background perspective, I had the unique opportunity of working across a lot of organizations, often with access to senior management. These experiences gave me insight into a lot of different businesses. At the same time, living in multiple countries shaped me from a leadership perspective.
As a leader, I am known as someone who will get things done, but I do that in an environment where people can come to work and be themselves. I really value diversity of thought and backgrounds, while also supporting professional development and growth. The experiences I had early on really made me articulate what draws me to certain businesses, which I try to recreate in my own environment.
For my team, I obviously look for intelligent people. Another key element is emotional intelligence; I value people with drive and self-motivation to achieve the best result for the team and the business. ​ Diversity of backgrounds, thought, and experiences can lead to better decisions from a management and leadership perspective.
Diversity of backgrounds, thought, and experiences can lead to better decisions from a management and leadership perspective.
You work closely with leaders of other Expedia brands, as well as supply businesses, to ensure your product's relevancy to EMEA consumers. According to you, what is the role of female leadership in your industry? What future developments would you like to observe?
The role of a female leader is to pave the path for those coming up the ranks now, to be a mentor, an inspiration, and to help future generations to learn from the mistakes made prior.
Female leadership is also about being a strong voice to drive for equality, in terms of 50/50 male to female leadership. It shouldn't only be on Boards, but also the executive teams, filtering right down through the organization. I want to see it not only in my industry, but across the board and I am determined not to stop until I see that, as we will all be better off in an equal environment.
The role of a female leader is to pave the path for those coming up the ranks now, to be a mentor, to be an inspiration, and to help future generations to learn from the mistakes made prior.
In your professional career, did you have a female role model whose leadership and personal qualities stand out to you?
Early on in my career, it was a struggle because there weren't many senior women with a profile that stood out to me. The good news is that years later, I have been tremendously lucky to work with some amazing female senior leaders. I have quite a lot of role models, one of them being Ariane Gorin, a and alumni of WIL's talent pool programme who works for my organization.​ The characteristics I look for in a role model include the ability to deliver business results while remaining authentic. A leader is someone who has the courage to be himself or herself and remain human.
In conclusion, we always end our interviews with a question from the Proust Questionnaire: When and where are you the happiest?
My sister Lucy, who I haven't seen in two years, is visiting me in London this week. I am currently the happiest sitting on the couch at home, having coffee and catching up with her.
Astrik Gabrielyan, Talent Manager Europe, Orange
"Your initiatives give us a moment of fresh air!" In this interview, Astrik Gabrielyan, Talent Manager Europe at Orange shares her perspective on having a reversed role as a Talent in our leadership program, on how she recognises and develops emerging leaders, cultural adaptation and much more!
Your career background consists of a psychology degree, 16 years of professional experience with 11 years in HR, Design, and implementation of HR programs (Talent management, Career development, Performance Management, Learning and Development). How have these programs been applied to your own career? How has Orange developed since you joined the organisation 10 years ago in Armenia?
When my experience with Orange started in Armenia in 2009, it was a start-up company that we created from scratch. We had one year to recruit a team and build up a network and technical aspects. Each of us created our roles, processes, and procedures. Even the French executives noted it was an unbelievable project.
The start-up process is unique because it allows space for creativity and is a major stage for learning by doing and designing on the go. It also matches my character well, because I love this process of creation, deployment, and results: making the abstract idea into a project with concrete measurable results.
One of the first work experiences I had was in a special bookstore in Yerevan, Armenia, dedicated to art, history and contemporary literature, where I was a sales consultant. Starting a career with customer service jobs – sales or anything that directly interacts with the customer – is an important stage for developing interpersonal competencies and shaping a sensibility to understand the needs of your stakeholders. It was a perfect job also because one of my hobbies is reading and to do my job well it was required to read those interesting books.
You have an international life and career, in which you accompany high potentials based in six different European countries to become leaders all the while you yourself live in another country. What is it like to help leaders develop internationally?
It's incredibly inspirational, enriching and challenging at the same time. In order to support someone, first you need to understand the person and his/her individual need, and that's where one has to be open and careful to decode the behaviours, way of communication, gestures, humour, that are all different culturally. My background in Psychology helps me a lot.
I believe, any job that you do should be about giving and receiving, mutually growing. You need to give your best to the role and then you can receive a result. That is the way you learn and grow.
Any job that you do should be about giving
and receiving. You need to give to this job, to the roll
and then you receive. That is the way you learn and grow.
You therefore are constantly facing cultural diversity and different mindsets. How do you adapt your life to better understand another culture?
Everything starts with one's intentions and beliefs. If you are open to learning and discovering new cultures, then it gives you energy, otherwise it'll be quite a challenge.
I think my Armenian background is of help either. Geographically and historically, Armenia is on the crossroads, we are neither Europe nor Asia and thus have values and behaviours from both sides. At the same time, we have strong relations and historical links with Russia, a Slavic culture, and Iran to our south, an oriental culture. This historical background gives Armenians who are attentive to it sensitivity to different diverse cultures.
Your workstyle comprises: taking a role of catalyst in the projects and ability to create links and synergies between different kind of stakeholders. Could you tell us about some of your achievements that have given you such recognition?
In my daily role, I do talent identification, development, and coaching. Plus, I deploy different projects linked to our strategic priorities: e.g. career engagement, mentoring. These projects involve managing a community across eight countries. I need to synchronise eight different mindsets and ways of thinking, and even eight different holiday seasons!
We develop young talents to become leaders. For example, in 2018, we had 12 talents from eight countries; all representing different domains, and who did not know each other when selected. We combined them into one team with six months to work on a business subject given by the sponsors. My role as a project manager is to synchronize all stakeholders and to create an atmosphere in which everyone is aware of their role, the project mission and engaged in delivering the expected results, at the same time I need to make sure they grow individually and as a team.
You specialise in leadership coaching. How do you identify future leaders? What qualities do they embody?
In all companies and businesses, we imagine common traits of leaders. Someone who has strategic vision, who can lead, motivate and engage. At the same time, each company has their own model of leadership. Yet, the model of a leader is ever evolving in this fast pace world. Learning abilities, open and curious mind-set, or being a change agent, are becoming more and more demanded competencies and take a key place in the leadership model.
Learning abilities, open and curious mindset or being a change agent, are becoming more and more demanded competencies and take a key place in the leadership model.
You are now participating in the 5th edition of our Women Talent Pool Program (WTP). What do you hope to take away from this program?
As a talent manager usually, I match my talents with the program that would best fit their development plan. Yet this year, I was nicely surprised when my manager told me it was my turn. It's a great recognition for me.
WIL is a place to learn, to get inspired, enlarge my network, and to share. WIL is a valuable platform to meet already successful women who are an inspiration in terms of leadership. Seeing strong women leaders who are succeeding, conveys the idea and feeling that I can do it also.
It is also an opportunity to exchange with professionals from other internationally recognized companies, like Lenovo, Microsoft, UNESCO, or the European Parliament. These exchanges have been inspiring because part of my interest is to discover how other companies are dealing with common global challenges. I try to get this inspiration online, but it is different when you meet the concrete person from another company culture and discover how else the work could be done. Your initiatives give us a moment of fresh air!
Seeing strong women leaders who are succeeding, conveys the idea and feeling that I can do it also.
Lastly, we like to conclude our interview with a question from the Proust questionnaire: What is the quality you like most in female leaders? Why?
There is this humoristic quote: "What can a woman make from nothing? A hat, a salad, and a scandal." Well, maybe it's not the most correct quote to be cited, but this notion shows the infinite range and richness of female creativity.
Female leaders often use their intuition to be creative and adapting. In leadership roles, you must find answers and solutions, that do not go from A to C but from A to Z. This is what is different for women. I have seen this in practice and do not need neuroscience to confirm that.
Read more about Astrik here!