Ambition and Acceptance with D.C. Pierson
First Draft Episode #202: D.C. Pierson
D.C. Pierson, comedian, writer, filmmaker and author of The Boy Who Couldn't Sleep and Never Had To and Crap Kingdom, and co-writer and star of indie comedy movie Mystery Team, talks about getting more vulnerable with age, using his fiction to explore the gap between what we expect of the world and what turns out to be true, and being sick of not finishing things.
Dan Eckman and Meggie McFadden are two comedians D.C. has worked with for years, in part on an adaptation of D.C.'s first book, The Boy Who Couldn't Sleep and Never Had To
D.C. loved the cover of his dad's copy of Jurassic Park by Michael Crichton
Rubber Soul was the one Beatles album D.C.'s family had on cassette or CD
In conjunction with the documentary The Beatles Anthology, detailed compilations of Beatles ephemera were released in three double-CD sets: Anthology 1, Anthology 2, and Anthology 3. D.C. listened to these more than the regular Beatles albums, which means he listened to a lot of alternate versions of songs and random studio chatter. He credits that with jumpstarting much of his curiosity as a storyteller.
While D.C. attended the Rita and Burton Goldberg School of Dramatic Writing at NYU's Tisch Institute of Performing Arts, one of his teachers was Charlie Rubin, who wrote for Seinfeld and In Living Color, and was a showrunner for Law & Order: Criminal Intent
Derick was D.C.'s improv group which formed at NYU, made up of D.C. Pierson, Dominic Dierkes, Donald Glover, Dan Eckman, and Maggie McFadden
Mystery Team was a fully independently-made movie that the Derick Comedy group made, which had a screening at Sundance, and led the group to move to Los Angeles
Upright Citizens Brigade improv theater is where D.C. honed his comedy and performing chops during and after college
The concept for Mystery Team is basically: what if characters from Encyclopedia Brown never really grew out of their idealized, 1950s childhood, and kept trying to solve crimes?
Donald shared what he learned writing for 30 Rock (with Tina Fey, Robert Carlock, Matt Hubbard, Kay Cannon) with his Derick Comedy friends to help them write a tight script for Mystery Team
Nathan Rabin, who wrote for The A.V. Club at the time, wrote a glowing review there for Mystery Team that D.C. credits with helping the movie gain momentum
A passing encouraging comment from comedian, actor, writer, and musician Eliza Skinner gave D.C. the boost he needed to start writing a book
Dianne McGunigle, manager and a producer of Atlanta, was D.C. agent at the time that he wrote a first draft of The Boy Who Couldn't Sleep… and she read it quickly, a favor for which D.C. is forever grateful
Gerry Howard, who edited David Foster Wallace's The Broom of the System and Girl with Curious Hair, as well as Hanya Yanagihara's A Little Life, was the editor D.C. worked with for The Boy Who Couldn't Sleep… D.C. was starstruck to be going to the offices where Sloane Crosley—essayist and writer known for I Was Told There'd Be Cake, How Did You Get This Number and her newest, Look Alive Out There—also worked.
The Los Angeles Times gave The Boy Who Couldn't Sleep… a lovely review
D.C. was inspired by psychologist Carol Dweck's book, Mindset: The New Psychology of Success
One of D.C.'s favorite English teachers sent him Of Human Bondage by W. Somerset Maugham provided a quote that summed up what he likes to explore in all his writing
To me, Crap Kingdom is asking, "What if Lord of the Rings was deeply uncool?"
Stephen King's On Writing is one of the writing books that has inspired D.C. in his fiction process
One of D.C.'s earliest imrpov teachers, Owen Burke, referred to the following passage from Tom Stoppard's Arcadia, on the endurance of human thought and creation: "We shed as we pick up, like travellers who must carry everything in their arms, and what we let fall will be picked up by those behind. The procession is very long and life is very short. We die on the march. But there is nothing outside the march so nothing can be lost to it. The missing plays of Sophocles will turn up piece by piece, or be written again in another language. Ancient cures for diseases will reveal themselves once more. Mathematical discoveries glimpsed and lost to view will have their time again. You do not suppose, my lady, that if all of Archimedes had been hiding in the great library of Alexandria, we would be at a loss for a corkscrew?"
D.C. sometimes teaches at Writing Pad, a writing program offered online and in L.A./S.F.
To leave a voicemail for a future episode, call 818-533-1998. Or you can email the show at firstdraftwithsarahenni@gmail.com.
Direct download: D.C._Pierson_FINAL.mp3
Shedding False Humility with Simon Curtis
First Draft Episode #203: Simon Curtis
Simon Curtis, pop star, actor, and author of Boy Robot and its forthcoming sequel. Listen to his brand-new singles, "Graduate" and "Rainbow" now!
Simon's first big gig was as a part of the children's choir for a national touring production of Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat
Simon's "It Gets Better" video for The Trevor Project is beautiful and heartbreaking and very worth a watch.
Early on when he got to LA, Simon was able to audition for Johnny Wright, manager for acts like New Kids on the Block, the Backstreet Boys, N*SYNC, Justin Timberlake, Britney Spears and more.
Simon starred in Spectacular! a Nickelodeon TV movie
Simon made his first album, 8 Bit Heart, after challenges in his acting career threw him into a depression
LeVar Burton from Reading Rainbow and Michael Scott, author of The Alchemyst: The Secrets of the Immortal Nicholas Flamel series, were two of the earliest voices encouraging Simon to write a novel
Michael Strother, who became Simon's editor at Simon Pulse, first reached out to Simon as a supportive fan of his music online as @CupcakeAndy
I reference Sabaa Tahir's author journey, where she spent six years writing her first novel, Ember in the Ashes, and then had to turn around and write the sequel in waaaaaay less time. Sabaa talks about this (and so much more!) in her episode of First Draft.
Simon recorded and released R∆ while he was writing Boy Robot (the book)
Ariana Grande's "Thank U Next" is on the level with Simon's purposeful cultivation of gratitude
Simon's song "Love" was a song that hit him like a lightning bolt
Janet Jackson's The Velvet Rope album is a full ALBUM, not a collection of singles
Simon was obsessed with Swedish pop groups A Teens and Play
Five years ago Simon discovered Fleetwood Mac, iconic band featuring Stevie Nicks, check our Rumours and be forever changed
Kacey Musgraves' album Golden Hour was so freaking rad and reshaped Simon's taste in music
Victoria Aveyard (author of the Red Queen series; listen to her First Draft interviews here and here) had a conversation about not asking people to read their books — Simon takes an opposite approach: "Bitch, read my book!"
I will never stop crying watching the part of Netflix documentary, Knock Down the House, when Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) gives herself the most badass pep-talk
Direct download: Simon_Curtis_FINAL.mp3
Ep 201: Gaby Dunn
First Draft Episode #201: Gaby Dunn
Gaby Dunn, co-author of the New York Times bestselling young adult novel I Hate Everyone But You with her writing partner Alison Raskin. The sequel, Please Send Help, is out now! Gaby and Alison also host the Just Between Us podcast and YouTube channel. Gaby is also the host of the podcast Bad With Money and author of the book Bad with Money: The Imperfect Art of Getting Your Financial Sh*t Together.
Listen to Gaby's first episode of First Draft with her co-author and comedy partner Allison Raskin here
Gaby has a money book that came out in January called Bad With Money based on her podcast of the same name.
Started the Bad With Money podcast because she is not a money expert at all and wanted to ask basic finance questions like "What is a stock?" or "What is a 401k?".
CNBC is a business and finance-based TV network (which was the launching pad for Suze Orman, financial adviser and TV host, author of Women and Money and The Road to Wealth, who has appeared on Gaby's show)
Gerrymandering Case in which hard drives of a deceased Republican strategist were discovered, and he was understood to be encouraging a top census official to add a citizenship question to the survey for political gain.
Gaby Dunn and Allison Raskin's YouTube Channel "Just Between Us", which is an LA based odd-couple comedy channel. It has now shifted over to a podcast format.
Gaby went to school for journalism and when she had to interview people and ask a tough question she would give a story of her own first so people would feel like they were talking to a real person. Gaby relates it to the 30 Rock bit were Tracy Morgan feels like he's lost touch with his audience.
In her recent novel, Gaby talks about It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia (TV show) and feeling like the character Charlie during the "There is no Carol in HR!" scene.
Gaby and Allison Raskin sold their first novel, I Hate Everyone But You, in a bidding war between Macmillan and Simon and Schuster. Simon and Schuster won the bid but Gaby signed a deal for a solo book with Macmillan.
Broke Millennial and Broke Millennial Takes on Investing by Erin Lowry
Gaby talked with Suze Orman off the record and agreed to disagree on the importance of systemic issues.
Full Frontal with Samantha Bee (TV show)
Please Send Help takes place four years after I Hate Everyone But You to match the growth of the readers and becomes a cross over between the Young Adult and Adult Genre.
Bury The Lede is a Crime Thriller and Gaby's first graphic novel. She wanted to move away from comedy and towards crime procedurals. Gaby pitches Bury The Lede as Killing Eve (TV show) or Lesbian Hannibal (TV show).
Gaby draws on her experience as an intern at The Boston Globe where she would show up to work, get a police radio, and drive around looking for stories.
Gaby worked at the Boston Globe while the case of Clark Rockefeller was unfolding. Clark Rockefeller was the pseudonym of Christian Karl Gerhartsreiter, convicted murderer and imposter who posed as an American socialite, and was eventually arrested for kidnapping his daughter following a contentious divorce. "The Man in the Rockefeller Suit," written by Mark Seal for Vanity Fair, is a great piece on the case, and the movie Gaby mentions is Who is Clark Rockefeller? starring Eric McCormack of Will & Grace.
Boom Studios is publishing her graphic novel. They have also published Lumberjanes, Heavy Vinyl, and The Avant-guards. Gaby's editor is Dafna Pleban.
Claire Roe and Miquel Muerto are the artists for Bury The Lede.
Emily Heller (Stand-up Comedian), Jon Gabrus (Actor and Comedian), and Dave Holmes (Author, TV host, and critic) are a few of the guests that have been on the Just Between Us podcast.
S1E2 of Bad With Money features Gaby's session with Brad Klontz, financial therapist and author of Mind over Money: Overcoming the Money Disorders That Threaten Our Financial Health
Direct download: Gaby_Dunn_FINAL.mp3
Special 200th Episode!
First Draft Episode #200: Special Anniversary Episode
For the 200th episode of the First Draft with Sarah Enni podcast, previous guests sent in answers to questions like, where do you turn for inspiration? What are you hopes and dreams at this moment in your career? What do you do besides writing that makes you a more skillful storyteller? And, of course, any advice! Listen in to hear tips, tricks, and reassurances and encouragement from dozens of bestselling and award-winning writers!
People Featured, and Links and Topics Mentioned, In This Episode
Podcasts I listened to obsessively, which inspired me to start this podcast, include Fresh Air with Teri Gross, WTF with Marc Maron, and You Made it Weird with Pete Holmes
Veronica Roth, author of the Divergent series, Carve the Mark duology and the forthcoming short story collection, The End and Other Beginnings: Stories from the Future (listen to her First Draft podcasts here, here, and here)
Will Hines, author of How to be the Greatest Improviser on Earth (hear his First Draft episode here)
Sara Farizan, author of Here to Stay, Tell Me Again How a Crush Should Feel, If You Could Be Mine (hear her First Draft interview here)
Kass Morgan, author of The 100 series and Light Years (stay tuned for her episode of First Draft!)
Tochi Onyebuchi, author of Beasts Made of Night, Crown of Thunder, and War Girls series
Tochi recommends playing narrative video games, like God of War, Assassin's Creed, or Red Dead Redemption
Leigh Bardugo, author of the Shadow and Bone series and Six of Crows duology, and the forthcoming adult novel, Ninth House , and more (listen to her First Draft interviews here and here)
Josh Gondelman, author of the forthcoming memoir Nice Try, writer and producer of "Desus and Mero" and Emmy-winning writer for "Last Week Tonight on John Oliver" (hear his First Draft interview soon!)
Maris Kreizman, author of Slaughterhouse 90210 and host of LitHub's The Maris Review podcast
Ryan Graudin, author of the Wolf by Wolf, Invictus, The Walled City, and more (hear her First Draft interview here)
Sabriel by Garth Nix
Jason Reynolds, author of Look Both Ways, the Track series, Long Way Down, As Brave As You, All American Boys, and many more (stay tuned for his episode of First Draft)
The Newberry Award; The National Book Award; The Pulitzer Prize
Stephanie Garber, author of the Caraval series (listen to her First Draft episode here)
Elana K. Arnold, author of A Boy Called Bat, Damsel, What Girls Are Made Of, Infandous, and more (listen to her First Draft episodes here and here)
Lance Rubin, author of Denton's Little's Deathdate, Denton's Little's Still Not Dead, and Crying Laughing (listen to his First Draft episode here)
Freedom (computer app)
Deep Work Work by Cal Newport
Courtney Summers, including Sadie, Cracked Up to Be, This Is Not a Test, Fall for Anything, All the Rage, Some Girls Are (hear her First Draft episodes here and here)
"Real Romance," The New Yorker profile about Nora Roberts
Mary H. K. Choi, author of Emergency Contact and Permanent Record (stay tuned for her episode of First Draft)
The Venice Biennale (La Biennale di Venezia) and Dia:Beacon
Bridget Tyler, author of The Pioneer and The Survivor (listen to her First Draft episode here)
Scientific American, which Veronica just subscribed to
Samantha Mabry, author of A Fierce and Subtle Poison and All the Wind in the World (listen to her First Draft episode here)
Elissa Sussman, author of Stray and Burn (listen to her First Draft interview here)
Abdi Nazemian, author of Like a Love Story, The Authentics, and The Walk-In Closet (listen to his First Draft interview here)
Madonna, the queen of Abdi's book
The Artist's Way by Julia Cameron
Morgan Matson, author of he Date, Amy & Roger's Epic Detour, The Unexpected Everything, and more! (listen to her First Draft interviews here and here)
Julie Buxbaum, author of Tell Me Three Things, What to Say Next, and Hope and Other Punchlines (listen to her First Draft interview here)
Danielle Paige, author of Dorothy Must Die, Stealing Snow and Mera: Tidebreaker (listen to her First Draft episode here)
David Yoon, author of Frankly in Love (stay tuned for his episode of First Draft!)
Zan Romanoff, author of Look (due Spring 2020) and A Song to Take The World Apart and Grace and the Fever (listen to her First Draft interview here)
Writing Workshops LA
Francesca Lia Block, author of Weetzie Bat, The Thorn Necklace, and so many more (listen to her First Draft episode here)
Aminah Mae Safi, author of Not the Girls You're Looking For and Tell Me How You Really Feel (listen to her First Draft interview here)
Alex London, author of Black Wings Beating, Proxy, The Wild Ones series and more (listen to his First Draft episodes here and here)
Nina LaCour, author of We Are Okay, The Disenchantments, Everything Leads to You, Hold Still and more (hear her First Draft episodes here and here), and listen to Nina's podcast, Keeping a Notebook
Hamline University's MFA program
The Slow Novel Lab, Nina LaCour's online course on writing
Lilliam Rivera, author of Dealing In Dreams and The Education Of Margot Sanchez, (listen to her First Draft interviews here and here)
Pseudonymous Bosch, aka Raphael Simon (author of the The Name of This Book is a Secret and the Bad Magic series, and more) and Shane Pangburn, who together created The Unbelievable Oliver and the Four Jokers (stay tuned for their First Draft episode!)
Amy Lukavics, author of Daughters into Devils and The Ravenous (listen to her First Draft episode here)
Maurene Goo, author of Somewhere Only We Know, I Believe in a Thing Called Love and The Way You Make Me Feel and Since You Asked (Listen to Maurene's first, second, and third episodes of First Draft)
That time Maurene interviewed Sarah Enni for this podcast! (The Sarah Enni episode of First Draft )
Direct download: 200th_ep_FINAL.mp3
Ep 199: Robin Wasserman
First Draft Episode #199: Robin Wasserman
Robin Wasserman, New York Times bestselling author of adult novel Girls on Fire, as well as young adult novels The Waking Dark, The Book of Blood and Shadow, Hacking Harvard, The Cold Awakening series, the Seven Deadly Sins series. Her next novel, to come out with Scribner, is Mother Daughter Widow Wife.
Robin loved Diane Wynne Jones and Stephen King as a kid, particularly Salem's Lot, The Stand, and It. (Robin wrote for The Atlantic about, "How Stephen King Saved My Life")
Johannes Kepler, a German astronomer, mathematician, and astrologer, about whom Robin would gladly talk about forever. (And I would listen!)
Robin wrote her senior thesis about Dr. Timothy Leary, who co-conducted studies known as the Psilocybin Project, which sought to test whether psychedelics could cure the emotional pain of Western man. Leary was fired from Harvard when the ethics of his studies came into question, and went on to continue promoting the use of psychedelics as a thought leader in the 60s counter-cultural movement. Leary has written extensively about his philosophy, including in books like The Psychedelic Experience: A Manual Based on the Tibetan Book of the Dead, his book with his partner in the experiments, Richard Alpert* (now known as Ram Dass); his autobiography, Flashbacks; and Turn On, Tune In, Drop Out. Many have written about him, including The Timothy Leary Project: Inside the Great Counterculture Experiment, compiled by the archivist Jennifer Ulrich; and Timothy Leary: Outside Looking In by Robert Forte.
*Of interest to me is that the TV show LOST paid homage to Ram Dass by naming a character Richard Alpert
David Levithan, who has and does host a regular drinks night for New York authors of young adult fiction. Robin went to one of these gatherings and met John Green before Looking for Alaska won the Printz.
Kurt Cobain was the lead singer of Nirvana, the band that broke open grunge. Cobain died by suicide in 1994. If you're interested in Cobain, or Nirvana, or the grunge scene generally, I personally recommend Everybody Loves Our Town: An Oral History of Grunge by Mark Yarm, and the documentary Montage of Heck by Brett Morgen (about which Robin wrote, "The Art of Resurrection: Montage of Heck," in the Los Angeles Times Review of Books).
The Satanic Panic was a phenomenon in the 1980s, wherein millions of Americans feared that an underground cult of Satan worshipers were practicing rituals and committing crimes. Robin particularly recommends Richard Beck's We Believe the Children, which covers the phenomenon of, specifically, day care workers being charged with horrible accusations of child abuse. I'm obsessed with this phenomenon, and there are a ton of other podcasts that do a great job explaining it:
For a broad overview, the Stuff You Should Know podcast released an episode about The Satanic Panic
The Satanic Panic is a multi-part, deep dive into the phenomenon and many of the cases that came to define it (and their resources page isn't to be missed)
The McMartin Child Abuse trial was one of the most massive and egregious examples of the Satanic Panic as a community-seizing exercise of hysteria. Both WNYC's The Takeaway and Generation Why have devoted episodes to exploring the case. Documentary filmmaker Penny Lane (whose most recent film, Hail Satan?, is awesome) went on KCRW's The Document to discuss the case, and the phenomenon.
Robin was inspired, in part, by an event of mass hysteria that afflicted dozens (of mostly high school cheerleaders) in LeRoy, New York, a phenomenon covered in the New York Times and Slate. Robin wrote about the phenomenon for the Los Angeles Times Review of Books ("Girl Trouble"), which is a non-fiction piece on the history of hysteria and a review of The Fever by Megan Abbott. Another book written about that phenomenon is The Cheerleaders by Kara Thomas (listen to Kara's episodes of First Draft here and here).
The West Memphis Three was another case of hysteria leading to false convictions, in which three men in West Memphis, Arkansas were held responsible for the deaths of three young boys. The trial was controversial, and the three convicted men were released after serving more than 18 years in prison. The case is covered in a modern classic of documentary filmmaking, a trio of docs that begins with Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills.
The concept of "kindred spirits" put forth by Anne of Green Gables by L. M. Montgomery led Robin to some dysfunctional concepts of female friendship as a young woman
Holly Black, who Robin calls "the queen of life modeling exercises" (listen to Holly Black's First Draft episode here), asked her to write out what author she'd like to be. Robert Cormier and Neil Gaiman were among the many different answers to that question. Robin threw out that she'd like to be a cross between Michael Chabon and Joss Whedon.
What/If, the TV show that Robin wrote for, is now available to watch on Netflix!
Direct download: Robin_Wasserman_FINAL.mp3
Ep 198: Jonny Sun
First Draft Episode #198: Jonny Sun
Jonny Sun, Canadian author and illustrator of Everyone's a Aliebn When Ur a Aliebn Too and Gmorning, Gnight!, TV writer on BoJack Horseman, screenwriter, one of TIME Magazine's 25 Most Influential People on the Internet in 2017, and a doctoral candidate at MIT and a creative researcher at the Harvard metaLAB.
Jonny remembers watching The Muppet Show as a kid (even though in some ways that really isn't a kids show), and later he realized that was why he loved sketch comedy
Jonny loved reading Calvin and Hobbes as a kid, and he read a good amount of Charlie Brown, Zits, and The Far Side, all of which were comedy
The Wayside School books by Louis Sachar was Jonny's intro into absurdist humor
He watched American Pie (movie) with his family, lol
Playwright David Ives, who Jonny calls the theater version of sketch comedy
Jonny played Nathan Detroit in a production of Guys and Dolls, and his best friend played Sky Masterson — Jonny's best friend went on to perform with Second City and is now appearing in Come From Away in Toronto
Bruce Springsteen's show, Springsteen on Broadway, is an interesting example of an artist engaging with works from every phase of their life
Shit My Dad Says by Justin Halpern and As Seen on Tumblr was part of a wave of books made from things that were funny on the internet
Winnie the Pooh is used as a reference for how Jonny structured Everyone's a Aliebn When Ur a Aliebn too like a social media site
Jonny recently gave a TED Talk!!!!
The Perry Bible Fellowship is a webcomic by Nicholas Gurewitch
He didn't hesitate to illustrate Lin-Manuel Miranda's book, Gmorning, Gnight! and he'd been a fan of Miranda's plays, especially "In the Heights," for years
Jonny made TinyCareBot after the 2016 election as a way to gently nudge himself to be kind to and take care of himself
Direct download: Jonny_Sun_FINAL.mp3