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July 18, 2019 | 'The First Duty' SDCC Exhibition Reveals 'Star Trek: Picard' Details
July 18, 2019 | Kurtzman Confirms Jean-Luc Picard Will Return To Space In 'Picard'
July 18, 2019 | Quentin Tarantino: My Star Trek Movie Will Be 'Pulp Fiction' In Space
July 17, 2019 | Get A Look At Sir Patrick Stewart As Jean-Luc Picard In 'Star Trek: Picard'
July 17, 2019 | Heather Kadin: Section 31 Show And "Calypso" Could Tie Into 'Star Trek: Discovery' Season 3
9 Questions We Have About The New Jean-Luc Picard Star Trek TV Series
| August 29, 2018 | By: Iain Robertson 271 comments so far
The return of Patrick Stewart is probably the most exciting thing to have happened to Star Trek in years. Jean-Luc Picard is one of the franchise's greatest characters, and the opportunity to explore him in his old age offers the possibility of a type of Star Trek that we've never seen before.
But what exactly will the show be? We've put together a few burning questions we think need to be addressed.
1. Is it a full series or mini?
In short, we don't know. On stage at Star Trek Las Vegas, Alex Kurtzman described it as "the next Star Trek series," which generally indicates an ongoing project, like Star Trek: Discovery. But, it is more likely that the Picard show is one of the projects described as a "limited series" when the CBS plan to expand their Star Trek TV universe was first announced in June. And earlier this month CBS Studios EVP of original content Julie McNamara confirmed: "We're looking at limited series for some Trek shows and we are looking at ongoing series for some other Trek shows."
Sir Patrick is also 78 years old, and now divides his time between Brooklyn, NY and the UK. It's unlikely he'd want to relocate to either LA or Toronto long term. Our guess is a limited series of a half a dozen to ten episodes. And we shouldn't necessarily assume they will fall into the standard format of around one hour, like Discovery. At San Diego Comic-Con in July, executive producer Heather Kadin told TrekMovie that formats other than one-hour dramas are being considered for various shows. She could mean the Picard series, or she could be referring to the recently announced Short Treks.
One thing we're pretty sure of is that unlike TNG of yore, it will almost certainly be serialized and not episodic. This is a modern dramatic show, and it makes sense, especially if it is to be a mini series, that there's an arc connecting the limited run of episodes.
Alex Kurtzman and Patrick Stewart surprised the fans at STLV 2018
2. If not a captain, then what?
"He may not, and I stress may not be a captain anymore. He may not be the Jean-Luc that you recognize and know so well. It may be a very different individual, someone who has been changed by his experiences. Twenty years will have passed, which is more or less exactly the time between the very last movie, Nemesis, and today." So said Stewart in Las Vegas.
Should Picard still be in Starfleet, the logical assumption is that he'd be an admiral twenty years after Nemesis. While most of Next Generation's admirals were notoriously either incompetent or corrupt, Picard could join the likes of Nechayev as a rare, honorable exception. As far back as season one's "Coming Of Age" he was offered an admiralty and the position of Commandant of Starfleet Academy; a job like that would be perfect for an elder Picard.
Equally possible is that Picard may no longer be in Starfleet. He's always had a keen interest in archaeology. Could he surpass Indiana Jones as the galaxy's greatest geriatric archaeologist? Or will he follow the path suggested by "All Good Things…" and spend his twilight years tending the family vineyards? Of course, this goes against the advice Kirk gave him in Generations, to refuse retirement, promotion or anything that would take him away from the Enterprise. But who knows what the intervening years have done to him? According to his Starfleet file Picard would be in his 90's.
One factor to consider is Picard's health. The future Picard seen in "All Good Things…" suffered from Irumodic Syndrome – a form of dementia. And what about his heart? Picard's was replaced with an artificial one following his youthful run-in with Nausicaans ("Samaritan Snare," "Tapestry"). It's not unreasonable to think this would cause him problems in his later years. There could also be problems with his remaining Borg implants. First Contact established that he'd never been fully disconnected from the Collective, and if Seven Of Nine's implants couldn't be fully removed, it's a reasonable assumption that the former Locutus isn't entirely Borg-free either. These could all be factors in him moving on from Starfleet.
It's almost certain we won't be getting Star Trek: The Next Generation mark 2, with Picard in the captain's chair of the Enterprise-E (or F, or even G), but that's probably not a bad thing. Picard is not a young man, and the show should acknowledge that he realistically past the age to be captaining a starship. A reasonable assumption is the series will explore Picard's post-captaincy–and possibly post-Starfleet–life. This opens the series up to explore new corners of the Trek universe we've never seen before.
A possible future shown in "All Good Things"
3. What will the tone be?
Another thing Patrick Stewart said at the announcement in Las Vegas is "It will be I promise you, I guarantee it, something very, very different."
Stewart may be indicating more than just that he will be playing an older Picard in a different position and environment than we are used to seeing him. There's a big question hanging out there: what kind of tone can we expect? Has our Picard has found himself in a dark place? If so, is that dark like Discovery in a world of peril, or dark in that things have taken a bad turn for him personally? Will he be struggling to accept this new phase of his life, or has he changed in some way?
Jean Luc-Picard was always the epitome of the ideals of Starfleet and the Federation. TNG was known for its positive, upbeat tone, and if this is going to be "something very, very different," that might mean something significantly less cheery. While there are a lot of dramatic possibilities for a change in tone, it does, however, risks running into what we'll call "The Last Jedi effect." By exploring an older, different iteration of a beloved character, the show runs the risk of alienating a section of the fanbase who have their own preconceived notions of what that character's future should hold.
Fan-made Picard poster by FlyNebula on Deviant Art
4. What's the state of the Federation and galaxy?
This is another massive "we don't know." The only canon Trek that takes place beyond Nemesis is the brief section in J.J. Abrams' Star Trek that features the destruction of Romulus, and Spock and Nero being sent back in time, kick-starting the Kelvin timeline. Those events took place in 2387, twelve years before the new series.
Assuming the new series acknowledges this (and there's no reason to assume it won't), it's safe to assume this will have a profound effect on the balance of power. Will the Romulans have allied themselves with the Federation, as the Klingons did following the destruction of Praxis? Will they have agreed with Nero about blaming the Federation for Romulus' destruction, and be at war? Will the Romulans even exist in a form that we recognize?
Then there are the other powers. We've seen little of the Cardassians since Deep Space Nine. Have they recovered from the Dominion War? Have the Klingons taken advantage of the Romulans' new weakened position? How will the disaster that's afflicted the Romulans affect their Vulcan cousins? And what of the Borg? They've been aware of the Federation for a long time now. Will they have launched a full-scale invasion of the Alpha Quadrant, or did Janeway's actions at the end of Voyager deal them a lethal blow?
It's potentially a fascinating time to set a series. The players are still the same, but the game could be very different. And if there is turmoil and possible cold or hot war flare-ups, that can have a big impact on the tone of the series, as we saw with Star Trek: Deep Space Nine and Star Trek: Discovery.
A map of the galaxy from the 24th century
5. Will the Discovery aesthetic apply?
Modern Trek looks and feels considerably different from the Next Generation era. Aliens and ships have been redesigned, the universe has been given a darker, gritty makeover, the tone's darker, and even the cinematography and editing is a world away from Trek of the '80s and '90s. Although Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, and Voyager all had their own aesthetic, they had enough common ground visually, stylistically, and tonally that they were obviously all part of the same fictional universe.
If the new show embraces an updated version of the TNG aesthetic we all know and love, it definitely won't look anything like Discovery. It would also run the risk of looking deliberately retro, like The Orville. Then again, fully embracing Discovery's look and feel could be problematic. A common criticism of Trek's latest incarnation is that it's too far from what's gone before, something that would be even more jarring with a character we know and love.
A good compromise might be something close to the look and feel of the final three TNG movies. They had a darker, slicker, big-budget feel while still retaining the familiarity of the series. Arguably, Discovery already kind of seems like it could fit in with the later TNG-era movie look.
Obviously, that doesn't solve the "Klingon issue." They're the most radically redesigned of Discovery's aliens, and also the species used the most on TNG. Assuming Discovery's upcoming redesign isn't the same as TNG's version, which design would they use? A hybrid maybe? Obviously, The Original Series survived a radical Klingon overhaul between the series and movies, but they didn't have to contend with the possibility of Worf appearing without his luxurious hair.
The revised design style and darker esthetic of the TNG movies seems to fit with the look of Discovery reasonably well.
6. Who else will we see?
The Picard series isn't going to be a one-man show. It is reasonable to assume that the series will feature familiar characters in at least guest roles, if not as regulars or recurring roles. The possibilities are endless but there are a few that make particular sense.
One natural fit would be Beverly Crusher. Picard has a complex history with her, and the two share an attraction to each other. In a hypothetical future shown in "All Good Things…" Picard and Crusher marry and eventually divorce. A number of other non-canon books and even Star Trek Online have used the idea that the two tie the knot, so maybe this show will make it official. Gates McFadden seems open to the idea and is waiting to find out herself.
Another favorite character who is already getting fans excited at the possibilities is Guinan. The long-lived El-Aurian is a close friend and confidant of Jean-Luc; she has described their relationship as "beyond friendship and beyond family." This new series could be the perfect opportunity to explore their complex relationship, assuming Whoopi Goldberg could be convinced to do it.
The Next Generation cast has famously remained close over the years since the show finished, so most of them would likely want to appear, given the opportunity. Marina Sirtis and Michael Dorn have frequently stated they'd return to Trek if asked, with Dorn still advocating for his own Worf show. Jonathan Frakes and LeVar Burton were at the side of the stage in Vegas when Stewart made his announcement, and Frakes is still actively involved in the franchise, directing Discovery. Judging by Wil Wheaton's enthusiastic tweet following the announcement, it seems safe to assume that Wesley Crusher would be back in a heartbeat.
The most problematic would be Brent Spiner, since Data died in Nemesis. However, the end of Nemesis implies that Data's engram transfer to B4 may have worked. And he's been resurrected (in different ways) in both books and comics. However, Spiner has said that he is too old to return to the part. But, finding a way to bring back everyone's favorite android shouldn't be too hard if they can come up with some reasonable reason Data has decided to look like he's aging. Challenging, but not insurmountable.
Although at least some familiar Star Trek actors (regular and guest star, from TNG and other series) appearing is almost a certainty, the reason they've likely not been announced yet is that we're still very early in the process. Stewart said scripts hadn't yet been written, and it's unlikely at this stage that the writers know exactly which characters their story needs.
Picard shares a moment with Guinan in Generations
7. Will any of the expanded universe works apply?
One of the people on the show's creative team is Kirsten Beyer, one of the writers on Discovery and the author of several Trek novels. Pulitzer Prize-winning author Michael Chabon is also one of the new show's writers. As authors themselves, they may be attracted to draw on some of the many novels set in post-Nemesis era, where Picard has had a number of adventures as captain of the Enterprise-E including marrying Beverly, having a son and even eliminating the Borg.
Some alternate timelines from the books have seen Picard promoted to admiral, given command of the Enterprise-F, being inflicted with Irumodic Syndrome, and even married to Vash. Star Trek Online has shown Picard retiring from Starfleet and returning to France. The Star Trek: Countdown comics, tied into the 2009 Star Trek movie, saw him becoming an ambassador and working with Spock to save Romulus from the Hobus supernova.
While the show isn't bound by any of these things, we're not ruling any of them out.
Ambassador Picard as seen in the Countdown comic tie-in to Star Trek (2009)
8. Will Picard die?
We're as excited as anyone about the return of Picard, and much as we hate to put a downer on things, there's a real possibility that Picard's next adventure could also be his last. Trek has killed its sacred cows before of course, and if Kirk and Spock can die, then anyone can. Data, Tasha Yar, Jadzia Dax and Trip Tucker were all taken from us prematurely. We saw Sarek die, too.
This is almost guaranteed to be Stewart's last Trek appearance. As we mentioned earlier, he's 78 years old, and surely doesn't intend to play Picard forever. He's a Shakespearean actor, and there's nothing they tend to like more than a good death scene, plus he won plaudits last year for his final, tragic outing as Professor X in Logan. So, why not let Picard go out in a blaze of glory?
Assuming this is a limited run series, we're guessing it will end with the death of Picard. After all, Generations ended with the death of Kirk, who passed the cinematic torch to the TNG cast. Much as we may not like the possibility, there's a certain symmetry in having the Berman era's greatest character pass the torch to Trek's newest generation of shows.
Patrick Stewart as the aged Professor X in Logan
9. How does he take his tea?
We all know our tastes change as we get older. Will a 20-years-older Picard still favor "tea, Earl Grey, hot?" Is that much caffeine good for a man Picard's age? Maybe he'll have switched to a nice chamomile? Or one of Aunt Adele's milk toddies? More than anything else (ok, maybe, is Livingston the lionfish still alive?) this is the burning question we want the answer to.
Picard and his tea
To say we're excited about the return of Picard is an understatement. He's one of the franchise's greatest characters, Stewart's possibly the finest actor ever to don a Starfleet uniform, and after Nemesis failed to provide many fans with the finale they craved, it's a chance for the Next Generation to go out in style. As Beverly Crusher once said, "He's Jean Luc Picard, and if he wants to go on one more mission, that's what we're going to do!"
Keep up with all the upcoming Star Trek TV series news here at TrekMovie.com.
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Spock Jenkins
I think this series will be best served as a 10 – 13 Episode Mini-series. I absolutely do not see Patrick Stewart wanting to commit himself beyond that, and just wanting to tell Picard's final story.
BUT, perhaps the conclusion of the series might segueway into a show that fans have been clamouring for – the ongoing voyages of the NEXT 'U.S.S. Enterprise' ship and crew.
Tiger2
I actually would love that idea. Picard starts the series for one season but spins it off to an entire new crew who is on the Enterprise F and starts a brand new show.
That makes the most sense.
For that reason, I think CBS will do something else.
John Chilton
Very funny Thorny! And tragically you're absolutely correct.
Cindy Real
Patrick Stewart recently played a randy TV host for 20 episodes on Starz. The notion that he would "absolutely" only play Picard for 13 episodes seems not based on any evidence that I have seen. But I have not read all of the updates, maybe I missed something?
Huge difference in the production time and the physical exertion required between a high-level science fiction show and a terrible and forgettable sitcom though Cindy. In my eyes, regardless of his age and energy levels, I'm sure he'd rather bow out of Trek on a high doing a short quality stint rather than pumping out forgettable filler (such as Nemesis)
I still find it funny people know how and what Patrick Stewart is thinking. Maybe you're right and he want's to do 6 strong episodes and call it day. Or maybe he signed up to do five seasons. No one knows. All we do know is he's playing Picard in another show. How long that last will probably depends on a lot of factors like most shows.
But my guess he would still be doing that forgettable sitcom right now if it kept getting renewed so it's no telling what will happen if its something he actually likes and proud of.
BorgKlingon
I agree completely, but leave it open for a possible theatrical release movie in a future year.
During the announcement Patrick Stewart said "Whatever happens over the next few years, what you did will be worth it" – Obviously still very early in the process, but that sounds to me like he has at least a bit of an expectation that this could develop into more than a mini series. It might end up being a few 8 episode seasons, or more of a mini series of movies but whatever it is I hope that it tells a great story and doesn't try to re-invent Picard too much – evolve, yes… but don't go to crazy
Necheyev? Honorable? You mean the admiral who ordered Picard to genocide at his next opportunity? The admiral who sent Picard on a suicidal fool's errand and installed a trigger happy, unreasonable Capitan in command of the Enterprise? The admiral who forced the relocation of American Indians, and ordered Picard to do her dirty work? The admiral who left federation citizens without protection, as the Cardassians across the border armed their's to encourage conflict? You taking about that "honorable" Admiral Necheyev? Yeah, no. If Picard goes down that path, the question becomes "who is this imposter?"
And here I thought TNG was just made up of perfect humans and no real conflict ever happens because everyone is just so happy all the time. ;)
I actually liked Necheyev though lol. She was even tougher on Sisko. People may not have liked her methods but she got shit done!
El Chup
"People may not have liked her methods but she got shit done!"
Sounds like the Trump rallying call!
I'm 99% certain they are related. ;)
The River Temarc
Natalja Nogulich is a Republican, IIRC.
My guess… One mini series of perhaps 8-12 episodes of around an hour each. We will get appearances by probably all of the TNG cast throughout it. Probably not Data, however. And it very well could end with Picard's death. Perhaps even we could get Q taking him back to the continuum where he can live forever or whatever it is they do there.
They should start it out just as the "All Good Things…" future sequence began: Geordi approaching Picard in his vineyards, but this time with some dire message or important mission. In this case though, Picard doesn't have Irumadic syndrome and is still (tacitly) involved in Starfleet or in Federation politics.
I would not be surprised by flashbacks to TNG and flasforwards to retirement, a la BETTER CALL SAUL. That would explain Stewart's comment that Picard "may" not be a captain any longer.
Not enough people say this, so I will. That was a well-written article.
Danpaine
Yes, very well written – you beat me to it.
Spiked Canon
agreed. very well written
Absolutely! Especially in this day and age such a sentinemt is uttered much too rarely and I wholeheartedly agree.
Luke Montgomery
Ditto. Wonderful speculation! Cant wait to see how it pans out :)
I completely agree, and was going to make a note of that in my own comments before reading yours. One of this site's best pieces ever, IMHO.
TomW.
Great Article. Brought tears to my eyes. Really. So much memories! Thanks.
I agree. I enjoyed the article. I love to speculate!
Picard was an Ambassador in the Countdown comic book if I'm not mistaken.
Text of the article was correct. The caption on the image was not. It's been fixed.
The Recursion King
Id be happy enough if he held on to command of the enterprise with the rest of the TNG crew on board for some more adventures :-)
GQMF
Tea, camomile, hot.
There's an antidote for the series – sleepy time tea, anyone?
TJ Trek
I have to say i would just go nuts if Picard was given his classic line "tea, Earl grey, hot". Then ide know we still have enough of the same old picard.
dswynne
…And this is why DSC should have been a continuation of the franchise, set post-NEM. Not only are there a host of sources this new Picard-led series can draw from (books, comics, RPGs, etc.), any series creator can have a chance to truly come up with something new (after years of complaints from the core fans who don't like reboots and re-imaginings). Heck, with just a few tweaks, and the first season of DSC could have been a continuation series. But…what's done is done. Best thing the producers can do is move forward, and come up with something that inspires the imaginations of fans, old and new alike.
Agreed, 100%.
100% agreed. There is just so much to mine going forward. That article brought up some brilliant ideas this show can touch on. I would love it if the Romulan situation is actually a focal point. Think of all the things that can be done with that alone.
I'm just so much more excited about this show than I was for Discovery for a lot of reasons, one that the story can go ANYWHERE. I was hopeful Discovery would be something exciting first season but sadly I let out a big yawn when I found out the main story would be the Klingon war. I just didn't care about it. And after watching it, I care even less now. Either way we all knew it had to end in a truce of some kind because of TOS and that's exactly what happened.
But you're right, what's done is done and while the Picard show is really the show I'm invested in I'm still excited for Discovery. More excited than I thought I would be after last season and a pretty bad finale but season 2 is at least looking up.
I can't wait to see all the crazy technology they come up with the 24th century if Discovery is anything to go on lol.
Picard as an ambassador to the Romulans could be interesting. Personally, I could have done without the whole destruction of Romulus. But perhaps Picard took up Spock's mantle after he disappeared.
I never read the Countdown comics but from what I remember the comics of the first Kelvin film actually had Spock, Picard and Data trying to stop what happens to Romulus. I don't expect the show to just copy that but it's already set up that Picard was already involved trying to help the planet with Spock when he disappeared. That would be a GREAT jumping off point. :)
And it would make the Kelvin films feel more canon.
Or makes this series feel less canon by building on non canon material. I hated that storyline anyway. It makes no sense for Data to kill B4's IA if it was morally wrong for Ira Graves to do the same thing with Data's IA in "Schizoid Man".
But I doubt most people has even read that comic so it wouldn't matter either way. I'm only saying just build on that idea in the new show if Romulus is a part of the story line.
But I had no idea Data killed B4 lol. Yeah doesn't sound like a Data thing to do…unless he was killing Lore. ;)
"Killing" is my interpretation I admit. Others may find milder ways to describe Data's absorbtion of B4's body, which was already seeded at the end of Nemesis.
OK, thanks for clearing it up. But now I REALLY want to read that comic!
I didn't think about that. Could Picard be carrying with him the destruction of Romulus for years? THAT could make him a different man. Could be a very good starting point.
I disagree. The setting of Discovery was not its problem. There was and still is a lot of story they could tell in the late pre-TOS era. Changing Discovery to be a post-NEM series would not have solved its problems with writing (Burnham's mutiny is stupid no matter which era in which it is set, and that was the foundation of the series). We might have been spared the fuss about the new look of Klingons, but that's about it.
DeMarco S Wynne
As I stated before, with a few tweaks, DSC could have been set post-NEM. I did not state which "tweaks" were needed. For the purpose of this thread, I'll leave that to everyone else to ponder.
Not being argumentative, I just think that requires more than a few tweaks.
i agree with you Thorny!! i love seing more about the TOS era.
Agree completely with this. DIS problems wouldn't all be solved by moving it to a different time period. It may make some of the cosmetic issues go away but it's bigger tone and plot issues would still be there just the same.
While I would have preferred the show be set post Nem, I do agree that the time frame the show was set in was NOT the problem. The problem was the terrible story arc and that they did next to nothing with what they said was the main character. Moving the time frame forward would have solved the PD problems but the same plotting and writing issues would have remained.
HN4
Don't agree
Just because of his age or current location, it doesn't mean this has to be a mini-series. He just had a full-time series, albeit a half-hour comedy, that lasted two seasons and was canceled less than two years ago. This definitely implies a willingness for an ongoing series, particularly if they work it out to how he wants it to be.
Agreed! I remember a few months back someone said they couldn't see Stewart even doing another American TV show because he doesn't have the interest to go back to TV. It was a bizarre statement because he had done just that with the show you mentioned. Maybe they just never heard about it at the time but it was that show that convinced me he would have no problem doing a Star Trek show again.
And the fact that he would STILL be doing that show now if it wasn't cancelled also proves he probably have no issues if it goes several seasons. And this isn't the 90s anymore, he's not doing 25 episodes a year like the old days. This may be more like 10-13 episodes a season at best and gives him plenty of time to work on other projects. TNG was a full time job.
So we'll see but I highly doubt his age would stop him from going multiple seasons. Stewart still works as much as he did several decades ago. He and Shatner must have made a pact with Satan lol.
Curious Cadet
@MattR — 10 1/2 hour episodes per season is not a major commitment. 10 1-hour dramatic episodes would be twice the work and be a much larger commitment, with much less down time between seasons to do other projects. Plus, what's there to tell? A self contained story arc is a much better idea. If all goes well, maybe they'll do another one.
Regardless, he was there day in and day out and the lead actor. I mean it's so weird as if Stewart who has been doing this longer than I'm guessing anyone here knows what he is capable of doing in terms of acting commitments.
And more than likely this will be an ensemble show like most of the others has been meaning he could be the lead of the show but he may not lead every episode.
If it is just a one short season show (what used to be called "mini-series") then each episode will be Picard led.
Data Does Age
Seems like the writer and, indeed, most people – including those that write for Trek, and the actors themselves – have all forgotten the line the Season 7 episode "Inheritance" where Data explains that his skin does in fact age, I believe he even says it's to make humans feel better around him for long periods of time and that he can revert to original youthful Data once everyone who knew him has died. So there's really nothing to explain – Data can appear as Brent Spiner is.
Jefferies Tuber
Cool note.
YOU'RE COOL.
Thank you, please tell Brent Spiner
So Picard lives in the late 24th , early 25th Century. Why is it so inconceivable that he still couldn't be a Captain anymore? Shouldn't medicine by then extend the lifespans of humans a few 20-30 years? All a Captain does on these shows is sit in a chair and bark orders. Why couldn't Picard still be doing that? I'd hate to watch a show about Picard gardening or going to ambassadorial meetings a little boring!
DataMat
I'd argue strongly with you there based on what we see Picard doing in the movies.
He was a very busy captain!
Picard nearly became an archaeologist instead of making Starfleet a career. So being space Indiana Jones is another option.
I think more than likely if he's not Captain he will be promoted to an Admiral or something as the article also suggested. He may still be in Starfleet, just not on the front lines exploring anymore. He could be retired completely but I really have a hard time seeing that happening.
But an Admiral will have no problem seeing him back in action. Remember Kirk was actually an admiral in Star Trek movies 1-4 and they had no problem getting him back in action and commanding the Enterprise, when technically he was never Captain of that ship for the first four films lol. It really wasn't until TFF where he officially became Captain of the Enterprise again.
One suggestion I liked in particular was that if you don't find an excuse to get him back in the captain's chair and keep him as an admiral, politician, or something like head of Starfleet we can have a Trek show told from a perspective we haven't seen before. Like a first contact or political story that affects the whole Federation, told from the perspective of the people leading it.
Something like that could be pretty compelling and have a large scope.
Fully agreed. The show could do a lot worse than drawing inspiration from DESIGNATED SURVIVOR or THE WEST WING.
Probably more because they think they can tell a more interesting story if Picard isn't just "still the Captain of the Enterprise". Protip: it means they can have the new Enterprise bust in to save the day in Episode 4 or 5.
tacotuesday
Yeah but actors in the 21st Century DO age. So unless they have the budget to digitally de-age Sir Patrick in every shot…
You're right, they often speak of people living to 120+
@Brandon — and yet I would find that a very interesting character study. I loved MR. HOLMES. I'd like to see the Star Trek equivalent of that and or peppered with some SPACE COWBOY/RED type moments.
I would be thrilled with a limited series centered on an exciting archaeological mystery with galactic implications that reunited Picard with Vash. Stewart and Jennifer Hetrick always had great chemistry together, and a little bit of Q thrown in would be fun.
farbeyondthestars
making any definitive or semi definitive assumption about what kind of series structure it will be either mini series or regular series is ridiculous… all they've said is series… if they were planning a movie they would have said that… if they were planning a mini series they would have said that… if they were planning 15 minute webisodes they would have said that… the dude loves working and it was a big dramatic announcement so i have to assume a modern day streaming series based entirely on what they've said already.
Picard in the admirality or being pulled out of retirement for one last space adventure strike me as kind of played-out tropes. I'd rather see him in a straight-up new kind of adventure in a different part of his life post-Starfleet. Like as an ambassador on a complex first contact mission or an archaeologist investigating some mystery.
Just roll forward acknowledging he's in a different phase now.
Agree. And on a related note, I got very tired of the theme in the TOS movies of Kirk's regret over giving up the captain's chair. I'd rather see Picard doing something fulfilling, important, and exciting in this phase of his life. Please no "let's get the band back together for one last adventure."
Assuming this is a limited run series, we're guessing it will end with the death of Picard. After all, Generations ended with the death of Kirk, who passed the cinematic torch to the TNG cast.
Of course there's a very real possibility. Let's not forget, however, that most of the people involved in Generations either hated the manner in which Kirk died, or that the character had to be killed off in the first place (or at least that he had to be killed off in THAT film).
Yeah lets hope they've learned from that mistake, I like the way Sisko did it though, essentially not dying but becoming a God.
I didn't mind the way Kirk went out, helping to save the 230 million lives on Veridian 4. But I understand why other fans were pissed (especially since I've become one of those pissed off SW fans that hates what they did to Luke)
If it helps, Mark Hamil didn't like what happened to Luke either.
You didn't mind the unforgivable "bridge on the captain" death scene in Trek V, but you hate all over DSC every chance you get here??? "Bridge on the Captain" was the most piss-poor, ill-conceived story idea and unforgivable scene in Trek history, in my opinion. Heck, Malcolm McDowell was like "what the F" when he read that scene, and he didn't understand why Shatner didn't fight it.
Wow, what misplaced Trek fan priorities, but hey, you are entitled to your opinion. But to me that is just wack; no offense.
BringBackKirkPrime
Let's assume Picard is the same age as Patrick Stewart–78 years old. As it has been established that living past 100 is no big deal in the 24th century, Picard should and could still be quite vibrant. There's no need to kill him, or ruin the character by making him a grump. Besides, Picard was never REALLY an action hero like Kirk. He commanded on his ship. There is NO reason he can't still be doing that as long as his brain is still functioning.
Here's thing, the character Picard is apparently not the same age at Stewart. If you go by the birthdate shown in Picard's profile on screen in "Conundrum", 13 July 2305, which Memory-Alpha uses since there's no other evidence of his DOB. Picard is 16 years older than Stewart. Using that date, Picard was 74 during Nemesis. Which is only 4 years younger than Stewart is now. So Picard would be 94 during this new series. Humans live to ~130 years old in the 24th century. So while 94 isn't as old as it would be today, it's still not exactly spry young captain material. It all depends on how these new writers handle it. Picard's age has never been said, and his DOB was only shown quickly in a graphic, so they might chose to make Picard sync up with Stewart's age or they might not.
Stewart looks younger than his real age anyway!
Marc Henson
He does now, but back when TNG first started he was in his late 40s, but he looked like he was about 60.
There was a DS9 episode that mentioned the age 140 as an age that was considered a full life.
McCoy was about 120 years old when he appeared in that cameo in TNG pilot.
@Matt Wright — and let's not forget the mandatory retirement age for Robert April! ;-)
For me, this is likely to be a TNG event series akin to what FOX have done with The X Files the last few years. If your bringing Picard back then I cannot imagine non of the other TNG characters are not involved. Picard is intrinsically linked to those other characters. They are as true a family as any other ensemble in Star Trek to date, and that includes TOS too.
Denny C
Agreed on all counts. With that in mind, we're looking at a 10 episode limited series. A follow up could involve Riker and / or other TNG characters.
It's no way Picard and only Picard will show up. Especially when all the characters minus Data could still be around and probably all still working in Starfleet. CBS is not stupid they know fans want to see as many as TNG characters as possible.
Now I don't EXPECT for them all to appear and I doubt most will be serving together or anything but I definitely see appearances by most of them at least.
And think of the brain trust who is now running Star Trek. These are the same people who figured out a way to bring in Pike in every episode on Discovery and that guy isn't on that ship lol. So I have a feeling we will hear other cast members joining once they know where they're going with it.
Otherwise it's like Kirk in Generations or even Spock in Star Trek in 2009. There was something missing.
Agreed. Which is why I'm not really begging to see Shatner's Kirk again. If he could be around Spock and Bones for example, that would be cool. But now since they are gone it feels even less of a reason to bring him back. They bring him back to realize all his long time friends and crew mates are dead and gone, it sounds pretty to me. I guess he could hang out with Picard again but since they known each other literally a day, it's not quite the same. ;)
"It sounds pretty depressing" is what I meant.
It really does. Sometimes it's better to just let things go. I tried to warn everyone after The Force Awakens but that's another story.
I'm a Kirk fan. I still consider him the best Captain and lead of any of the Trek shows. And I think his story is over. No reason to bring Shatner back to play Kirk. If STD want's to cast young Lt. Kirk, fine. If Paramount wants to continue with Pine in the reboot, fine. But Shatner's Kirk is dead and buried. Would be awesome to see him back but I think it better Shatner Kirk stays dead. I feel it would cheat the character just as I felt Spock's resurrection in SFS did. Sure, it was great to get Spock back. But ultimately I think it undermined a lot.
@DataMat — I don't agree. Picard is very much his own character, and is incredibly interesting without the rest of the crew. This is proven time and again with TNG itself where Picard was separated from the crew for his storyline, and those stood out head and shoulders above the rest. Imagine "Inner Light" told as a miniseries. No need for any of the rest of the crew to keep my attention.
"Picard is very much his own character, and is incredibly interesting without the rest of the crew. "
I say that is more a testament to Stewart's charisma and acting chops than it is it Picard being interesting. As a character, he is perfect in nearly every way. And thus, less interesting for it.
I don't disagree but we know most people want to see most of the characters. They could've bought back Han Solo without the others in TFA and I would've been fine personally (he's my favorite) but most of the fanbase would've had a fit if we never saw the others and only told what happened to them through dialogue.
Now if you do something like they did with Spock and the first Kelvin film where he's completely removed from both his time and universe people may not expect to see the others but outside of that they will want to see some other characters, especially since all the actors are still around.
Again, BETTER CAUL SAUL Ian a great example of what they might do. Old favorites like gus Fring showed up in substantive parts, but new characters like Kim Wexler and Chuck are front and center.
It's funny but that's how DIS feels like it's going a Saul/Breaking Bad route. The first season was mostly new characters but included Sarek and Mudd. And we know next season we are seeing Pike, Spock and Number One. Season three we could see Scotty or a young Sulu joining the reigns. Maybe Captain Garth gets an origin story!
I could be wrong but I kind of feel DIS will become a rotating door of TOS characters from now on like how Saul has turned into a full on Breaking Bad prequel even though they still have other characters.
Saul was always going to turn into a prequel once they decided Mike Ehrmantraut would be a main character. If they wanted a full blown legal drama it would have focused only on HHM. That was the right choice; fans wanted to see more of the Albuquerque underworld.
Yeah I agree. I didn't say it was bad lol. I was only pointing it out. Frankly the first two seasons kind of bored me. It didn't really interest me until last season when Gus showed up again and things started falling more into place with Breaking Bad. I wish they started sooner.
1. If Shatner gets hammered for being old, Stewart doesn't get a free ride, either. Mini, and just one season.
2. Come on, corrupt and incompetent Admiral Picard might be fun. Star Trek loves allegory, let him be Space Trump for a season.
3. TNG was a bit on the sterile side, and no empire lasts forever. Maybe the Ferengi are running the show now, and sold out to the Dominion.
4. See three.
5. TNG aesthetic, add wear and tear.
6. Would corrupt Picard be pimping out his wife Beverly somewhere, if the price was right?
7. Anything this creative team will do is likely to enflame some portion of the fan base, so why not go someplace entirely unexpected? Bitter, old, corrupted incompetent Picard, with a Tantalus Field?
8. Eventually
9. He's graduated to gin, and not that s**tty synthahol ….
mwz
As far as #1 goes, Shatner no longer looks the part, while Stewart does. That's the difference, the age isn't really all that important.
I don't think people gets on Shatner's case in terms of age just that his character's story has been told. He was already retired from Starfleet when he died and that was over 20 years ago now. I don't doubt Shatner can't do another TV show since he's been in quite a few of them in the last decade. But from a Star Trek perspective its really nowhere for the character to go at this point.
In Stewart's case Picard is a wide open book and all the crew members minus Data are still around. He was still commanding the Enterprise last we saw him. And Stewart is also as busy as he's always been. I don't think working on a TV show will be an issue than anyone else, multi seasons or not.
@mwz — it's no so much that Shatner doesn't look the part, given the appropriate storyline, it wouldn't matter. I do find it hard to believe that even in extreme age that people would still look that out of shape 300 years from now, but that's just me maybe. The real problem with Shatner is how to bring him back and explain why he looks the way he does.
A bit extreme, Phil, but I do think a redemption of a biter Picard for something negatve that happened to him would be interesting.
What better then the fallen hero, who finds redemption, to amp up some drama?
Andrew SD
The last little bit about Picard's tea is the funniest thing I've heard all week… I don't know where to start with all this speculation. I do know for sure that Sir Patrick is one of the finest actors of our time and to just have him back as Picard is a treat that delights my very soul.
Tim Bolivar
It should start with Picard finishing with a fictional holo-novel about a fictional U.S.S. Discovery…
Perfect! Bravo Tim for the great fan idea of the year!
PICARD: Computer, remind me to thank Admiral Janeway for sending me Joe's latest endeavor. I can't wait to see how he approaches Captain Pike's command of the Enterprise.
This^
LOL, people can be so mean.
Keep your day job, because the comedian thing just ain't working for you. ;-) But hey, at least MS-Offiice 32 and Lion King 3 liked it. Lol
Best comment I've read on this website all year hahahha, Discovery turns out to be a space fantasy holo novel!
Here's something really mind warping for you – the Picard show itself will be a complete make-believe space fantasy novel that you will be watching. LOL
Only if we pull back and find Picard has been living inside the same holo-cube with Moriarty all these years, and is himself living a fictional life that we've been watching.
One hope with regard to aesthetics…"A good compromise might be something close to the look and feel of the final three TNG movies. They had a darker, slicker, big-budget feel while still retaining the familiarity of the series." Totally agree with this.
"Arguably, Discovery already kind of seems like it could fit in with the later TNG-era movie look." Even though Discovery isn't as good looking, I totally agree with this too, and that's the time period where Discovery should have been set. But wait, then we wouldn't get young emotional Disco-Spock, and…never mind. Anyway, very much looking forward to the Picard incarnation.
The aesthetic isn't so much a spiffy set, but how one might expect any construct to look over the passage of time. Over on the Ron Moore thread, that came up as a topic of conversation. Vovager, seven years out and absent any facilities for regular and routine maintenance, returned to Federation space with nary a scratch on her hull, no dust in her corridors, even the flowers in the captains quarters were fresh. Okay, it was a creative decision to ignore that on Voyager, but in todays age of serialized TV, I don't know that you can just assume the new Picard show just picks up with everything being hunky doory twenty years later. If Starfleet has abandoned Starship Cruise Ships, there has to be a reason why.
"The aesthetic isn't so much a spiffy set, but how one might expect any construct to look over the passage of time."
That too, great point!
LOL looking at the Enterprise E and the Discovery set side by side in that article its like the DIS production designers just copied that ship. Even stuff like the corridors look very similar.
And look how much freaking bigger the Discovery bridge is in comparison to the E. And the E is suppose to be the flagship of Starfleet lol. Kind of crazy how big these ships have gotten with the Kelvin moves and now Discovery.
But yes it also makes it clear Discovery can LITERALLY fit into a 24th century setting just fine. The look of that ship doesn't look one bit less updated compared to what we got in the TNG films and Voyager.
I still don't get what was the point of making the show fit in an earlier timeline if its going to look more advance than shows in later time lines but I digress.
I was going to mention the side by side as well. They look so VERY similar. So much so that to a newbie it is reasonable they might think they are both from the same future era. Again, THAT is an aesthetic problem associated with their decision to set the show 10 years pre-TOS. Which was not a terrible idea, they just needed to make it kinda sorta feel like it belonged in the era they said it was in. And didn't bother to.
Yeah they do. It's really no getting around it. They even share the same color scheme, although Discovery loves its blue.
And as you said, a new fan honestly couldn't tell you the difference. Hell, WE only know the difference because they told us when it's set. If they didn't I doubt ANYONE here would know themselves which is the problem.
That's one thing I did love about Enterprise, that ship was clearly more advance than the Enterprise in TOS but they went out of their way to make the NX-01 feel and look like a pre-TOS era ship with everything more smaller, cramped and less technical. DIS looks so big, sleek and advance it doesn't feel connected to this period in any way. And of course what I found funny how I heard others (not just here) say they wanted to go back to the TOS era so it WOULDN'T feel so sleek, modern and comfortable like the 24th century. They expected a more downgraded era like TOS felt. Which again proves it comes down to the people who write and produce the show. The 'era' really means nothing as this show proves.
Now maybe when we see the Enterprise in season 2 they will connect it better with TOS. Again why they couldn't do that in season one is beyond me but they have a chance now to ground the show a bit better in the era, even if its still 'updated'.
I agree that had producers kept hidden what era the show was in I'd wager real money most would say it was post Nem just from the look alone. When Sarek showed up most would be, "Huh? Isn't he dead?"
Maybe S2 will connect better with TOS. But my feeling is that if they feel they need to retcon their entire show then they made a huge mistake to begin with. And again, (wish this didn't need to keep being said) they could have updeated the look for modern TV and STILL maintained a TOS feel. As it looks like they did with the production photos we've seen from the Enterprise.
I rewatched the episode of the first Mirror Universe story and Tyler was actually using holographic controls on the shuttle craft. I guess I just forgot that but stuff like that proves its NO WAY people would think this took place in a pre-TOS era or the TNG era for that matter. For people to tell themselves this ship is less advanced than the Enterprise D because it's missing a holodeck (and we already saw a prototype of one) are deluding themselves.
It's not JUST a visual update, the ship can do things no other ship ever has done. It clearly feels like it exists in a later era because the ship is super advanced. It might as WELL be the Enterprise E. But yes no holographic doctors at least!
As far as the connection to TOS, I've said it tons as well, no one said it can't look updated and advance but why completely ignore any connection to that era? I will never get who decided that was going to turn out fine lol. But all we can do now is wait and see if they kept their promise and that DIS will feel more TOS in the future, at least the look. Technology wise that boat has sailed. You can't put that genie back in the bottle.
The E is 22 years old now. LCARS looked spiffy in the day, now, everyone has one in their pocket. This is the problem Trek technobabble has created – TOS aesthetic just assumed everything worked, and spent little time explaining everything. Levar Burton spent seven seasons making stuff up, and now, that's the new standard. Problem is, regardless of what they do, it'll all looks Jules Vern-ish in twenty years. Trek still pretends AI doesn't exist….that reality does away with the need for a crew all together.
I agree with this. Time will eventually catch up to everything.
But I don't have an issue with the lack of AI in Trek though. I always assumed they purposely avoided to have less robots because they still want to experience things on their own. THAT said though sure it probably make sense to have them for more dangerous missions or send out AI machines to explore more isolated areas.
But yes one the things I really want to see in Star Trek is an AI starship. That's a big reason I would love to go farther in the future like the 26th century or something. Where we see stuff like that could be more connected.
"But yes one the things I really want to see in Star Trek is an AI starship."
Tiger2, this is one of many reasons you should check out Iain M. Banks' Culture novels. The story is full of this kind of stuff. The author based the main civilisation on the Federation (but a few centuries more advanced). The lifestyle of the average citizen in an egalitarian interstellar society with practically unlimited free resources is also shown more realistically.
Honestly I never heard of this guy until now but wow I just looked up his series on Wikipedia and you're RIGHT, that kind of stuff is exactly up my ally lol. It's crazy based on what I read this is exactly how I view an advanced Federation as well. I don't expect Star Trek to get as detailed about it as it sound like he does but it's fascinating to me.
But yeah I always viewed Trek on two levels, humanity's place in a biological and culturally diverse universe and how they themselves exist in a technological post scarcity society. They rarely focus on the latter for probably obvious reasons and that they don't really know how it works lol. But yes I would love a show that focuses on that more and explain things like how they live without money or how AI props up a lot of the society behind the scenes. I don't think we will ever get it lol but I would love it.
Will read up more on the Culture series though. I may check out the first book once I'm done with another series I'm reading. Thanks!
@ Tiger2 Well, that's the problem with space, it's just to vast to be doing it on their own. Here in the 21st century, old guys staring into telescopes didn't actually find any planets. In the last ten years, we turned that job over to the robots, and they have found so many it's not even news anymore. I get that Star Trek is TV drama and all, and no one is going to watch a show featuring a sensor pod strapped to a warp engine, discovering strange new worlds oh so quietly. The reality is that AI will end up charting most of the galaxy long before a manned vessel ever leaves our solar system. Trek will need to adjust its aesthetic to reflect the new normal.
Phil we don't disagree. But I NEVER equated Star Trek with our real world or our future anyway. This has been made quite evident for awhile now our version of space travel will never be anything like Star Trek's version. Certainly not in 150 years from now when Enterprise kind of starts the era of space flight we think of with Trek.
It's a fictional TV show with their own version of the future. That's it. And that version has been outdated for literally decades now. Probably since the 70s, but it's what Star Trek is.
Ironically it's WHY people like me would like to go farther in the future so maybe we CAN see more of those things. But a number of people have argued if you go 'farther' than the 24th century then humans will rely more on AI. And???? Yeah that will be GREAT IMO!!! I would love to see stuff like that. I would love the first truly human-cyborg character that's NOT a Borg. When you just see the show as it is, science FICTION, and not some 'realistic' portrayal of the future, then go crazy with the possibilities.
But the reality is the AI stuff would probably happen waaaay before the 23rd century. But Star Trek isn't our future so they can do what they want.
Nah, there is no holodeck, the controls are more primitive, and the ships are more submarine like compared to the large, living room like looks of ship interiors of the TNG.
DSC is simply updating TOS look to 2018 production valued and designs. You may not like it, but it's nothing like TNG look.
1. Wait, have you a seen secret previews of Season 2? How do you know we're going to see young emotional Spock?
2 if we do, blame "The Cage." He was more emotional then than in TOS proper.
@TRT — Might I suggest a review of the first Season of TOS? I would argue that throughout those early episodes, overall, he was far more emotional than compared to The Cage by itself. Even season two he's still having emotional moments. By season 3 he'd mostly dialed it in.
"This is another massive "we don't know." The only canon Trek that takes place beyond Nemesis is the brief section in J.J. Abrams' Star Trek that features the destruction of Romulus, and Spock and Nero being sent back in time, kick-starting the Kelvin timeline."
This is assuming that they decide to recognize the events of the 2009 movie. Something tells me that they won't.
I don't see why not. It would be a little like the Marvel Universe deciding they need Quicksilver again so they just have him show up in the next feature.
Have to disagree, I think it's almost certain that the bits of Trek 2009 that take place in the prime timeline will be honored.
Have to agree with others. I don't see why they wouldn't do it? Especially since the guy, Alex Kurtzman, who wrote it's destruction is the same guy making this show. It would be weird he would want to avoid his own canon but he has been accused of worse lol.
I think because there would be no reason to recognize the events of the 2009 movie or even a desire on CBS's part to have the two franchises connected in any way since it could impede the creative direction of any post Nemesis series. Still, assuming they recognize the events of the 2009 movie, specifically the destruction of Romulus and Spock's disappearance, it would finally put to rest years of speculation for some fans about the Kelvin timeline (the Narada arrived in an alternate universe, it did not create an alternate timeline).
I understand your point but if CBS was this concerned about it then they should've either A. made clear the Kelvin movies had NOTHING to do with the Prime Universe or B. told them they had to come up with a different story line entirely to avoid such a major conflict.
We knew (at least people with brains) one day at SOME point this was going to come up again. Obviously there was going to be a show or film that takes place post-Nemesis, that was ALWAYS going to happen. Even Bryan Fuller originally expected Discovery to do it, just as an anthology.
They know their fanbase and they know how fickle they get over this stuff. Sure maybe in Discovery you can ignore there wasn't holographic communication in TOS period because it's not a huge deal to most people. But to just ignore a planet exploding will kind of set the internet on fire lol.
But you could be right. They may just try and do it. I just hope they don't because it's only going to make the Kelvin films feel even LESS relevant for one. And as you said it would finally put to rest that Nero's ship just went into another universe. I think the overwhelming people really DO get this but some people just want to be difficult about it lol.
Actually that in itself will be proven true anyway once every one sees that Vulcan is alive and well 100 years later.
Ya' know, something tells me CBS wouldn't have a problem with the Kelvin timeline seeming less relevant.
Maybe not, but I'm only talking in terms of canon. If they avoid it, it will look like THEY are breaking canon. I just don't see that happening, especially since the guy in charge of the new show also wrote that film. He already get enough crap from fandom as it is, I'm guessing he is going to want to make it all feel connected out of nothing more than wanting to feel consistent with his own work like any writer.
That said if he's told directly that they should avoid it then yes that will prove they don't care about the films at all. But they should've just told them they couldn't use the Prime universe at all if they always planned to avoid what was done in it. AND it would actually create another issue, Prime Spock. Did he disappear or not? This is WHY it's important for canon to stay consistent as possible, especially for fans not just because you want things to feel fluid but because you want to feel what you're watching matters.
TrekkerChick
Is ST: Enterprise – and the Enterprise "J" – now "not canon? Or is it just that we're talking 'the immediate future' – i.e. after ST: Nemesis?
This feels like a good time to say that I NEVER liked putting the letters next to Enterprise. Felt it was just dumb. Thought that since I first saw it in TVH. Sadly, that concept seems to have stuck with us.
DaveCGN
Now that I read it… Maybe they did this in TVH, already having the ENT-D in their mind?
I actually never considered that. Didn't TVH come out in the fall of '86? That means TNG had to have been in pre-production. Perhaps that is why. But then, I would argue the TNG Enterprise could have just been NCC-17014.
Is it too late to get David Mack? They should put him on this show. I'd have complete faith in his approach to a future Picard.
Androids can look older if they want…or they could CG his face.
It doesn't have to look that realistic because he's an android.
I'd like at least one appearance by Q. He can look old too because he did in All Good Things… during the scene in France.
""Arguably, Discovery already kind of seems like it could fit in with the later TNG-era movie look."
Yes, this. I can understand having issues with the look of DSC, and the difficulty reconciling it with being a nominal prequel to TOS. But the charge I've seen repeatedly on these threads, that it looks like a generic SF series and nothing like the Trek we've known, is utterly mystifying to me.
As to format and tone, I personally hope the new show is nothing like TNG. For all its weaknesses and unimpressive start, I have a lot of affection for that series. But I don't need to see it again, thanks. Let's move on.
Agreed about creating something new, not just re-treading TNG. If you love the TNG era (which I do) there are 21 seasons of it to go watch.
They already said it won't be TNG. The very fact the show will NOT be called The Next Generation already makes that clear. ;)
It sounds like the show may have the spirit of TNG in terms of exploration, philosophical ideas, etc, but I imagine it will be a completely different show in tone and story.
Just like TOS fans wanting another TOS show there are probably millions of fans who want a continuation of TNG but I'm guessing most will just be happy the franchise is moving forward again and at least get to see some of their favorite characters like Picard in the process.
For people like me, it's the best of both worlds. ;) Something familiar but completely new at the same time.
Every production design there every was for Star Trek has always been unequivocally, recognizably Star Trek — especially where spaceship interiors are concerned. Only a cynic would insist otherwise and (try to) claim it looks like generic sci-fi.
That said, the evolutionary styles of production design for each era of ST are NOT compatible with each other. TMP is not visually compatible with TOS, no matter how the reference books pretend to account for the two. ST09 is not compatible with TOS or TMP. STD is not visually compatible with TOS, TMP or ST09. All four eras of ST, including third generation film and third generation TV, are mutually incompatible with each other on a visually stylistic basis.
To say that STD looks like it takes place after Nemesis makes no sense. STD looks like a modern-day interpretation of ST's 23rd century. 2002's Nemesis looked like some greenish-grey take on 1987's depiction of ST's 24th century. The TNG "movie" sets are also among the tackiest designs ever put out by ST, rivaled only by VOY's sets.
If the Picard series' production design resembles anything before it, it should look like STD's production design rolled forward a hundred years. Basically a modern-day depiction of ST's 24th century. It should NOT look like Berman Trek, which was stuck in the '90s and which we already have on DVD.
Sam, I'm astonished you can put forth the idea that DSC looks like TOS through modern eyes. Normally I'd give you a 1000 word dissertation, but I'm very very tired this week, so I'll just leave it as a strongly dissenting opinion.
It looks as much like TOS as The Motion Picture did for 1979. Some fans have an inexplicable unwillingness to accept this though.
The jump from TOS to TMP was a 15 year difference PLUS a 100% refit/redeign. STD never offered up a reason for their change.
Disagreed. Robert Wise and Gene Roddenberry gave the ST universe a complete visual overhaul. That's what really happened. They would have done it "anyway", regardless of the "explanation", and everyone already knows they would have done it. Which makes the explanation moot.
A ship being refitted wouldn't account for the look of TOS regardless. The interiors don't match up. The exteriors don't match up. "Something" should match up, and there's no onscreen evidence of a single element that does. You would have to show me a cut-out diagram of both ships to convince me there's even a skeleton they share in common. They took that puppy apart to the point where there wasn't even a ship anymore. And that doesn't even account for every other ship, space station, starbase or outpost visited in all of ST.
TMP only illustrates why you should NOT "explain" when you update. Because too many fans are literal-minded and they'll cling to it.
I agree that there really was no NEED to explain away the difference. 15 years of change is enough for most of us. But the concept of a redesign/refit worked and combine that with the 15 year time gap… It totally makes sense. None of that is true of STD to TOS. They didn't even TRY to evoke any of the era they claimed to be in. Hence, the fan issue. And again, it would be less of an issue had the show been good to begin with.
The MS-0ffice 32 or similarly named dude is just way off here. TMP in Trek universe time was 4.5 years after the end of the 3rd season, not 15 years. The Enterprise had two more years in its 5 year mission to complete, and then Kirk served as Chief of Starfleet Ops for 2.5 years as TMP opens.
And you were also 100% correct in that they made all those changes because he wanted to update it and a bigger budget. Any other explanation is moronic and goes against what we know from the nonfiction history of the making of TMP.
I think he means 15 years in between 'The Cage' and TMP. Which still doesn't work. What, the ship never happens to come across any "newer" ships or outposts after 'The Cage', or any "older" ones after TMP? I don't think so. There's a TOS shuttle in the Director's Cut of The Motion Picture, however it's an easter egg for a reason.
And then there's a 90-year period in which hardware remains fairly consistent. And even the prequel ENT is tied to this lineage, using TNG and NASA as its two jumping-off points while pretty much bypassing TOS altogether.
ST can't go back to a time when it never even heard of Commodore 64s, let alone iPhones or Stabucks coffee. It just doesn't work like that. Every rebooted version of ST, including TMP, has tried to make itself relatable to the then-present day.
@Sam
While true there is still a valid in universe reason for the change. Moving forward. Sure, the bulk of the changes are for more modern productions. But the change STILL makes sense when moving FORWARD. If you go back, you can't suddenly give King Arthur's knights machine guns because they "look better to modern audiences." You need to keep things kinda sorta in line with the time frame. Yes, Trek is future history but it DOES have an established history. We KNOW what the TOS era looked like. We know what the TOS movie era looked like. If a producer wants to go back to those days they need to respect what was done before and not outright copy it, but do something the evokes the era. It appears they got the message and did it with the Enterprise. Yet they didn't for everything in the entire first season when it appears they could have.
Not that any or this would have improved the lousy writing or atrocious plotting… But at least it would have been one less thing wrong with the show.
Forward or backward has nothing to do with it. The styles are incompatible. The design architecture of Generation 2 is a whole parallel universe removed from that of Generation 1 — Trek fanzine articles show that fans were even hung up on this when The Motion Picture came out. Now fans are hung up because Generation 3's designs are incompatible with BOTH 1 and 2, and they're saying STD "should" take place in the Kelvinverse on account of that. Which… makes no sense. Generation 3's TV and "movie" designs are as incompatible to EACH OTHER as they are to everything else. You've got at least four distinct design styles spread across three generations of ST, and all four are mutually and equally incompatible with each other.
2001: A Space Odyssey was just in theaters last week, and its production design "looks" more advanced than almost anything on ST up until The Voyage Home. It's just aged better. Nobody's adding machine guns into into King Arthur. It's just the fact that TNG~ENT already appears nearly as dated as TOS (this was already true when ENT aired, because Berman Trek was stuck in the 90s and ENT could not seem more advanced than TNG). And TMP looked tacky to some critics even when it was released.
There's no linear path that extends from TOS to TMP, nor to either of those points from our present day. You just can't get there from here. We don't "know" what the TOS era looked like because it's subjective and open to interpretation.
"Forward or backward has nothing to do with it. The styles are incompatible. The design architecture of Generation 2 is a whole parallel universe removed from that of Generation 1 — Trek fanzine articles show that fans were even hung up on this when The Motion Picture came out."
I was a fan at that time — late teens for me — and I can validate that these same sorts of fan complaints were happening then, but Roddenberry and company pretty much said that everything was updated to make it more modern and realistic, including changing the Klingons. It wasn't until the Berman-era where the weak-minded fans got pandered to with silly on-screen explanations that supposedly explained production changes away, like the dumb-ass augment virus that is such an insult to our intelligence as Trek fans.
"There's no linear path that extends from TOS to TMP, nor to either of those points from our present day. You just can't get there from here. We don't "know" what the TOS era looked like because it's subjective and open to interpretation.:
You said it — there is no logical case to explain the completely different look on the Trek universes in TMP, which takes place only about 5 years after season three in the Trek universe timeline. It's production changes to update the look — and I am fine with that and I don't need any long-winded, weak-minded nonsense to make it "more comfortable" for me as fan to pretend any the production changes in this fictional universe.
Some people need to just "grow up." :-)
I actually liked the 'Relics' and 'Tribbleations' crossovers of the Bergman era. The augment virus (Ruffles Have Ridges) story arc on the other hand I'm not convinced there really was much story outside the fan service.
Probably the only grown up thing is to not care whether anyone appreaciates it. I don't "think" these people would undermine their creative integrity by listening too closely to the fans. It would be disappointing if they did, but also silly. Too much of the anticipation is in seeing what they come up with.
"Ruffles Have Ridges" Great one! LOL
Relics was decent; loved Tribbleations.
Unification, however, was the second most disappointing Trek episode ever for me (what a tragic waste of Nimoy and Mark L's involvement), with Encounter at Farpoint the undisputed buzz-killer of all time for me given my high expectations of kicking off Trek on TV again in 1987 considering the trailer and buzz for the series before-hand.
First, you lost me when you say Generation 1, 2 & 3. Which are which? Next, forward and backward have everything to do with it. when you move your setting forward you have the freedom to change and do things that look even more advanced. You go backwards, and you are limiting yourself to what was done before. It becomes necessary to embrace those elements to maintain the illusion you are tying to create. There is a perfectly reasonable linear path from TOS to TNG. But real and fictional that both make perfect sense and work. And we do "know" what the TOS era looked like as it was presented to us 70+ times and a few times in flashbacks. It's not subjective. It's canon.
This is a pretty fun article. I would answer these questions in a few specific ways:
1 PICARD AS STATESMAN/AMBASSADOR, following in the footsteps of his Katra-mate Sarek and Sarek's son, seems most likely and true to the character we know.
2 PICARD AS INDIANA JONES, riffing on his archaeological bent, seems like the most fun, with the most potential for temporal insanity. But how do you top finding the origin species of all humanoid life?
3. PICARD VIA DAVID MACK'S DESTINY NOVELS, linking several narrative threads and TNG characters, seems like the most likely – possibly in conjunction with 1. above.
GraniteTrek
Admiral Ross from DS9 was competent and honorable – and the Admiral we saw for the most hours of any of the Admirals so far, given he recurred on numerous episodes over 3 or 4 seasons. I would have to assume Admiral Janeway is competent and honorable too. There were a few other "Admirals of the Week" that, absent further data, at least seemed competent.
And hey – if you consider Nacheyev bad, Cornwell was all over blowing up Kronos in Discovery, so Necheyev was just following tradition! :D
Ross was in league with Section 31. If you take the novels into account then he was a really bad dude.
I haven't read the novels. The novels get ignored by the shows anyway. The only canon sources are the TV Shows and movies.
Man these two paragraphs have me giddy with excitement. So much HAS changed post-Nemesis and so much conflict happened during this time. True the Dominion, Cardassian and Borg threat have ceased thanks to DS9 and Janeway but who knows where these two are now several decades later. And with Romulus wiped out, all bets are off (assuming that will be dealt with).
But there could now be a big power struggle if Romulus is gone or even bring someone completely new to the table. As a writer it must be exciting because now they have the chance to reshape the future of the Federation any way they like!
Hopefully though we WON'T get another war theme season. All these things can be included and not just be an excuse to have ships fight each other for 13 episodes. After Discovery first season I do hope the Picard show truly focus on exploration again. But I know there will probably be lots of Federation politics thrown in the mix which I'm fine with and every show has dealt with minus Voyager and Enterprise for obvious reasons. But to seek out new life and new civilizations should still be a mandate of the new show.
I get the distinct vibe that the Picard show is not about exploration but about Picard himself. Which I hope is the case. Just not interested in another 24th century show with a bunch of starfleeters on the bridge of a starship. Sure, I'll watch it. But I'm hoping for something different.
I don't necessarily want Picard on the bridge of the Enterprise again (but wouldn't be against it lol) but I do have a feeling it's going to be more exploration based than anything. But I wouldn't mind if it was political focused or even espionage. And I guess you can do all of those things at once as well.
But I'm open to almost anything EXCEPT another war. I don't mind some political conflict with the Cardassians or something but I realize after watching DIS for an entire season of fighting with the Klingons I missed Star Trek just going out and seeking out new life and new civilizations. End of the day that's what Star Trek is first and foremost to most people. It doesn't have to be every episode but at least once or twice a season would be nice.
DIGINON
If you compare DIS to the later seasons of DS9, DIS didn't really show much of the conflict with the Klingons. So I wouldn't say that it was the premise as much as how they delivered on it (or didn't).
I have a feeling Patrick Stewart isn't interested in just doing a continuation of TNG. I also don't think he's really interested in all the minutia of what's been going on in the Trek universe since we last saw Picard in Nemesis. So don't expect the show to rely heavily on some plot points from DS9, VOY or the Kelvin movies. Will they reference stuff from previous shows? Probably. Will it define what they do on the new show? I don't think so. Of course, I might be wrong.
Agreed. There really wasn't much Klingon war in a series that was supposedly going to be involved with a Klingon war.
Totally agreed. I think they just botched the Klingon war completely in so many respects and why I had such a hard time to like DIS more. I still go back to how DS9 did it when the Klingons broke the treaty with the Federation. There wasn't a lot of conflict there either but it was just done SO much better. You really have to bow down to how well the Dominion war was done on that show. If the Klingon war went another season on DIS, I don't know if I could even watch it based on how I felt about it first season.
As for Stewart, I hear you but I think we are getting carried away in terms of his clout on the show. End of the day it's still a Star Trek production and I don't see it focusing on the universe as a whole no more or less every show has done. Sure they may not bring up things from the past much, which is fine, but the Dominion war redefined the alpha quadrant so I can't see them not bringing that up. The Romulus issue will be interesting to see what they do, but they may chicken out and just not bring it up at all. I actually have a feeling they are going to tell us if they will or won't touch that before the show even starts though. We know they are going to get tons of questions about it lol.
I'd like to see Picard as a retired Commodore. That's in-between a Captain and the Admiralty that Kirk warned him to avoid. Commodores still command ships, as we saw with Decker and Wesley.
How about the series opens with Picard on his deathbed, about to take his final breath, when suddenly Q turns up …
Just Another Salt Vampire
They kind of did that already with the "It's A Wonderful Life" episode where Q shows Picard what life would be like if he made different decisions as a youth. My memory is that the opening scene is Picard's mechanical heart exploding and Q is there as he wakes up in the "afterlife" that Q creates for him.
Been there, done that. Rather well, too, was one of the better episodes of TNG.
Tapestry was indeed one of the better TNG episodes. Surprising because Q and the entire concept of Q I find to be a terrible creative creation. If I could make a personal episode disc with perhaps 6 episodes… That would be on it.
@John Chilton — if this becomes about Q, I won't be the least bit interested.
Unless they go the comedic route, I agree. Q works best when the entire thing is light hearted. That said, it feels like Q would work much better with The Orville!
This is just a question to everyone but I'm just curious.
The Kelvin films seem very mixed in terms of how fandom see them. It seems like a lot of people sadly don't want them to even be considered canon which is ridiculous but there it is. There are a lot of people on Reddit suggesting the Picard show should just ignore the Romulus explosion because they don't want the show connected to the Kelvin films at all.
Do others feel this way? Do you want to just avoid what happened with Romulus like nothing happened at all? To me I DO want to see the events played out in some fashion. At the very least acknowledge they happened. But its amazing how SOME Star Trek fans seem to want to wipe out complete movies and shows because they simply didn't like them and the prequel stuff seems to get it the most with Enterprise, the Kelvin movies and now Discovery people keep saying isn't canon.
But should the Picard show just ignore it?
My opinion, the Kelvin films are canon based on Prime Spock's creation of/incursion into that parallel universe from 'our' universe, so Yes, the Romulus destruction should be addressed. That was the 'glue' for me which allowed me to enjoy the 09' film to the extent I did – it provided continuity.
Agreed! Prime Spock's involvement makes them relevant no matter how you personally feel about them.
Trek in a Cafe
If Nemesis is canon, so are the Kelvin films. Nemesis is about the worst POS in Star Trek, so to refer or think of it at all pains me greatly. Don't you feel my pain?
LOL, but I think people have no issue with Nemesis because outside of the Romulus leadership being wiped out, nothing major happened in the film itself. Although I'm guessing many WOULD like to pretend Nemesis wasn't canon because then they would get Data back. ;)
But I don't disagree with you about the movie itself. It's STILL my worst Trek film of all time.
The Kelvin movies seem to get more people angry over it and I just don't understand why? 90% of those films take place in another universe anyway so it doesn't really matter one or the other. I guess many just hate Romulus was destroyed but that's how it works.
There is more. It was destroyed but Picard returned the normal "oppressive" Romulans to power… because…? Fascism?
Picard was just obeying the Prime Directive though. He probably didn't like it but he also knows just trying to force a regime you think is evil doesn't prove a society just becomes better once they are removed, especially when someone just as bad can still take over. History has proven that. There is even a speech in an episode where he talks about this very thing so it stays consistent to the character.
But I get your point of course. Like I said it's easily my worst film in the series (although I've still seen it six times ;)) but canon is canon!
I can't see what the PD has to do with Fed/Rom relations in the slightest, unless you're talking about a world they both have designs upon. Doesn't apply to anything in NEM, except that PITCHBLACK-y kind of planet that exists only for a chase scene and to collect body parts, and even there any PD concerns are totally absent in the actual film.
That was the one thing in Nem that really wasn't cool. That entire sequence felt tacked on just to add a little excitement to a part of the film that was lagging a bit. It also violated the PD big time. But the rest of the film was just fine.
Yeah that part was just dumb. It's one of the reasons the film ranks so low for me. But its one of MANY lol.
Oh, you want dumb… Nearly everything they did in TVH qualifies. Nemesis was Citizen Kane compared to that.
Wow you really hate TVH lol. It's like my fourth favorite one after First Contact. But everyone will see things differently. You really seem to love Nemesis and so many don't. Now I don't HATE Nemesis but it is easily the worst Trek film for me for a lot of reasons. And I think why it bombed so badly proved fans just didn't like it.
I will say it has grown on me in time like all of them do frankly (I really enjoy watching TFF now as well but that film was at least fun and it never had an issue with pacing, which was another issue with Nemesis).
Nemesis just had too many problems for me. I can spend an entire essay on it but I imagine many could here. And the crazy thing is I was SO excited for that movie lol. A bunch of us went to see it. We got out, total silence. I just think that crew deserved a better ending personally. But I never get tired of watching those characters and why I seen that film multiple times now.
I'm curious why did you hate TVH so much?
Oh man.. Where to begin? Well, I could write a lengthy essay on the problems with that film but I think I will just say that I found the plot to be absurd and worthless. None of the humor worked and the characters were just not acting like themselves at all. I think that bothered me more than anything. It was almost like Nimoy told the cast, "forget about how you played these people before. I want you to be goofy and over the top because this entire movie is goofy and over the top." It just did't work. The Yosemite sequences in TFF had more genuine laughs in in than the entire VH had. And there were MANY smaller bits sprinkled throughout the film that induced far too many facepalms. I honestly believe that the reason that film did so well at the box office was BECAUSE it wasn't really a Star Trek film. Similar to the reason Beyond did so badly as the fans seemed to think it the best of the KU films yet it did poorly at the box office. I honestly believe that Trek just doesn't translate well to the box office. To make it work there you have to change it into something it is not.
I STILL don't know what exactly people's problems with Nemesis are. It did have a couple of problems but certainly not enough to ruin the movie. Just as WOK had a couple of issues but not enough to ruin the movie at all. I thought the parallels of B-4 to Data and Shinzon to Picard worked quite well. Although I do think B4 would have worked better had Data's evil twin never existed in the series. But it made sense and served the story well. And the 3rd act was, after WOK & TUC the best 3rd act in the series. It was a great send off for the TNG cast. Riker moved on. Data evolved as far as he possibly could. Picard stayed with the Enterprise. It was a good ending for them. I still think the only reason many feel it was a bad movie was mainly because of jealously that TOS cast got a better send off than the TNG folks got. If you take that petiness out of it, Nem was a pretty good film. At least as good as First Contact. Certainly FAR better than the abysmal Insurrection.
Maybe I'm just confused what we're talking about lol. I just mean after Shinzon was killed the Romulans just resumed taking back the government. The Federation would be getting involved in their affairs after that and it would go against the PD if he tried to stop them. But it's been awhile since I seen the film though, so maybe I'm forgetting a few things?
He felt there was hope with whatever the new regime was as they came to his aid against Shinzon. There was even a line in there about hope for new relations between the two governments. Nemesis get's a bad rap and I honestly don't know why. There was really one major flaw but it was inconsequential. It's not like characters were running around being stupid like another Trek movie I know….
I agree. A movie being a POS does not mean it cannot be considered canon. That's why I begrudgingly accept Kirk's idiotic "demotion" and every other lame thing that came from The Voyage Home. Hands down the crappiest Trek movie ever.
I've heard CBS had already mandated that any post-TNG novels, comics or videogames cannot blatantly contradict the backstory of the Kelvin films. Assuming this is true, one can assume it would apply to any post-TNG TV productions as well.
In my own opinion, CBS shouldn't feel "obligated" to acknowledge the Kelvin films, or avoid contradicting them, since the overall ST property is theirs. They likewise shouldn't be obligated to even refer to the Kelvin films in passing unless the story in question is somehow relevant to whether Romulus is or isn't gone. If they do acknowledge the Kelvin films it is out of goodwill.
If I were producing a CBS Trek show, I would avoid contradicting the Kelvin films unless their backstory happened to be in my way. Otherwise I would play nice in the ST sandbox, again out of goodwill. I'd figure it would be just my typical sort of dumb luck if a Paramount/CBS merger finally happened while my show was in pre-production, and I would play nice. But I awouldn't go out of my way to give the fans their one or two lines of dialogue making it "official" that Romulus was gone if my story wasn't even related.
I would also reserve the right to change the details of the Kelvin films' backstory if doing so lent better scientific/astrometric credibility to my show as a science fiction series.
The Kelvin films create a number of problems for ST "canon" regardless of how one feels about them. But they're far from being the only offender. I am also a much bigger fan of those films than I ever was for Berman Trek's latter-day installments.
AFAIC, the Picard show should be in a universe where Romulus is gone. As you said, I find it difficult to accept that Kurtzman would ignore his own work.
alphantrion
This is what happens when you don't consider the big picture and look at a story from a smaller perspective. They wanted to have a catalyst for Leonard Nimoy to appear in Trek 09 and the destruction of Romulus was that catalyst, but I don't think they were really thinking about what this meant for the future of the franchise as a whole. Well at least Vulcan is still safe (I hope)
As for post-Nemesis canon and aesthetic, I just wanted to point out that both the Narada and the Jellyfish are post-Nemesis Prime Universe ships.
It should start of with Picard on Baku with that chick Anj. Maybe something from his past days him away?
Am praying Picard is not ruined with flavour of the month jazz about being conflicted, disillusioned or depressed. The character was a righteous man of principle who always knew his own mind, and that's exactly how he should stay.
^ This guy gets it!
Couldn't agree more.
And I have always thought Picard needed to show MORE fraying from trying to face up to all these challenges, because doing the right thing isn't easy in a crisis. Practically the only time I fully admired Picard as a man was at the end of Q WHO, when he acknowledged his wrongheadedness, and practically the only time I thought Stewart delivered a perfectly pitched Picard was in YESTERDAY'S E when he tells the E-C Captain that the Federation is losing the war. Stewart's air of aristocratic Kinghood with Picard on his throne was always at odds for me with Picard's supposed enlightened sensibilities … I'd much rather see somebody wearing command like a comfortable old jacket, as Shatner once put it, which I think comes through with Brooks a good deal of the time.
Then again, I'm not a TNG enthusiast, having always seen it mainly as a series of missed opportunities, which DS9 did a lot to redress.
And because of that he was the most boring Captain in all the Trek shows. First Contact was TNG's best movie because Picard was flawed in it.
Yeah, I suppose if everybody tearing into everyone else around them constantly is your only definition of good drama or writing, then you would find the subtly and inherent decency of Picard's character boring.
It's fine if you enjoy perfect characters who are always right with zero personality flaws interesting. I don't. I'd like to see a character actually grow, like most people do. Picard never grew. He was perfect from day one. Until that one time he succumbed to revenge in First Contact. Which was indeed out of character for him. But it made for a superior movie.
What's wrong with an audience looking up to and admiring a character? Every show under the sun does the growth and conflict angle. Star Trek and TV more generally doesn't have enough regular human beings as heros anymore.
Nothing wrong with admiring a character. Picard was perfect. That's something to strive for but impossible to achieve. (In my view, making Picard an impossible character) Kirk was someone to look up to as well. Yet he wasn't perfect. Which makes him a hero who is also a little bit interesting.
Caption for that weird fan-generated poster:
"Coal Mining Captain of the 24th Century"
I. SAID. DIG!!!
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
This show could wipe out all the years of TNG novels that I have read ever since Nemesis But I am so looking forward to this show!!!
Jeannie Felix
I don't like the idea of this new series is not going to be shown on regular TV for all to see instead it's going to be shown on paid programming which really hurts.
The only reason why we are getting this show is to beef up All Access. But I don't disagree not being on TV hurts it but I have a feeling it will get a lot more people to subscribe to AA at least.
"but I have a feeling it will get a lot more people to subscribe to AA at least."
Which if we are all being honest here, is the goal. One that STD didn't seem to deliver on.
Agreed! I don't think DIS did either. Now I CAN be wrong on that. I don't want people yelling at me but I feel that way for a lot of reasons, mostly because CBS hasn't shouted from the roof tops just how many people actually watched this show. My guess is if it was a number they were proud of we would've heard it over and over and over again.
And I also think that's the sole reason we are getting things like Pike and Spock next season. I have a feeling they know the show probably went too far off the reservation and alienated a lot of Trek fans from signing up and now trying to convince them to try it with familiar characters. The fact was they were pretty adamant we would never even see an adult Spock on the show just this year and now we are getting one. My guess is that came from the top for a reason.
But I also add the show got another season so clearly it's doing well enough, but I do think it didn't reach the expectations they hoped it would. I'm pretty convinced way less people are watching this thing than people were the final season of Enterprise. But next season can be a different matter.
Your logic on the STD numbers is sound. CBS absolutely would have shouted from the rooftops had they gotten even close to the numbers they were looking for. They touted their numbers when the show started. Then nothing. I also don't think a 2nd season is indicative of the shows subscribers. I think it would have gotten a 2nd season even if CBS got 1/4 of their current subscriber total. The thing is, the vast majority of streaming shows get contracted for a minimum of 2 seasons. Part of it is two short seasons is equivalent to one REAL season and it is just affordable to give the shows a better chance to find an audience. STD's 2nd season, I thought, was a sure thing unless CBS just gave up on CBSAA.
I agree with you just because they got renewed doesn't mean the show was a success. Now I DO think it was on some level but I also said because of both the situation with AA AND the Netflix deal that it was probably getting three seasons minimum. I assume that because by then AA will have more shows on and maybe more buzz worthy shows which this moment it doesn't. Discovery is the only one and even that isn't really true since it's not talked about at all outside of the usual Trek circles like here. But I have no doubt it's the most watched show on that site obviously and that alone makes it successful.
As for actual numbers yeah I will say pretty low considering AA only has 2.5 million subscribers. I'm guessing 2 million of those watch Discovery and that's being very generous. BUT I also think it's doing pretty well globally since more people have Netflix and we know Star Trek does pretty well on that site so I suspect it's probably a better deal for Netflix than it is for AA currently. Which probably works out since Netflix paid for most of the show anyway.
But there is still lots of time to draw in viewers and I imagine when the Picard show comes that will get a ton of people to sign up who hasn't and give DIS a shot as well.
@ Tiger2: Before season 1 it was reported that the Netflix deal allegedly paid for the show's budget. So if CBS basically got the show for free what makes you think it was a better deal for Netflix than for CBS? If Netflix paid for it they must be hoping for good subscription numbers to justify the cost. But if CBS basically just paid for marketing they can be happy with much lower numbers.
Now if CBS does the Picard show without Netflix's financial participation A LOT more may ride on how well it actually does on All Access. But right now, it seems to me that CBS can be pretty relaxed about the numbers.
No CBS got a good deal in that sense, completely agree! In this instance I was talking about AA itself IF the show hasn't drawn more subscribers to it as they wanted (since this is what its REALLY all about).
And I'm only guessing of course the show is doing well on Netflix just due to its sheer number of viewers and the fact the old Trek shows are already really popular there, which again why they fought so hard to even get Discovery. But they haven't released any hard numbers either. But if they are footing the money in season 2 as well I'm guessing it's a big enough success.
And as I said this in the past, I don't think CBS is 'worried' about it because to them the solution is probably just add more Star Trek and why we are getting the Picard show and others. I think they probably expected for DIS to deliver a certain number of subs first year but my guess is they known for awhile it wasn't going to be enough on it's own and changed course.
But they obviously know more Trek is the way to go which is GREAT for us. I mean I doubt anyone thought they would announce a new show so fast since Discovery is only a season old. I didn't think we would get another one until DIS got more established.
Wait for the blu-ray release. It will look a lot better and contain a ton of features.
So let me get this straight, fans insisting Picard is 94, are basing this on a throwaway graphic from one Next Gen episode? And even if one accepted that graphic as holy, then Stewart would always have to be 16 years younger than Picard? This is pure silliness, and I hope the producers and writers feel free to treat Picard's age as they see fit (within reason, of course.)
I remember always feeling Stewart was playing a much older man, definitely in his 50s, early in the TNG run. Then I saw Gerrold had him written that way in FARPOINT, and I think the writer's guide may have had something at some point as well. Part of that is the Picard/Riker angle, which to have any father/son resonance, needs to have a couple decades of separation (like Kirk/Decker.) If Picard is only old enough to be Riker's big bro, that isn't the same dynamic at all.
In the Kelvin timeline, for some reason I thought Spock Prime mentioned in the flashback's voiceover that not only was the Romulan homeworld destroyed, but the whole bloody Universe bit the dust. I guess I'm wrong.
Man, fans would've set Paramount on fire if they tried to pull that lol. That's like someone killing off the entire MCU. Thanos only killed half of them and people are still bitter about that. ;)
TKW
I was lost on all that since he said it threatened to destroy the galaxy, then somehow it just destroys Romulus? So the shock wave avoided other planets? But they knew in advance Romulus was at risk, had time to prepare, but didn't evacuate the planet just in case. Don't buy Romulans having that much faith in Spock / Starfleet. Still hate that Spock had to die in JJ universe. Would have preferred they said he found a way to go back.
LOL I just realized Prime Kirk and Spock had the strangest deaths. Kirk died 100 years into his future and Spock died 100 years in the past while in another universe. My guess is Bones probably died somewhere in the Mirror Universe and Uhura in the 22nd century.
200 years and a universe apart. Geez, that's kinda' depressing when you think about it.
I don't think you can evacuate a full planet in a meaningful amount of time. I mean we are probably talking several billions of people. You would need to get them off the planet onto the ships, fly them to another suitable planet (just look at the reluctance of present-day countries to allow in refugees), drop them off and return to Romulus for the next round. Assume you have 1000 ships each capable of transporting 5000 people. That means you need to do 1000 return trips with each ship to shuttle off 5 billion people.
Cant you just beam them out? How about planet to planet beaming?
Well, you can beam them from the surface to the ship but even that takes time. As for planet to planet beaming: I don't think there was interplanetary beaming before the Kelvin movies (and many people complained about it). Normally, transporters have a limited range. You can get from ship to ship or ship to surface, but you can't beam to another star system.
Unless you are in the KU. Then it's perfectly feasible.
Yeah, I remember they introduced such a concept in KU, so it should be perfectly feasible to just beam all the Romulans to another planet, but perhaps the whole star system was destroyed so there was no planet to even beam them to if the transporter has limited range.
So Picard was supposed to be in his 90s during the future in All Good Things?? I thought late 70s maybe. Can't imagine a 90+ Picard show would be a big selling point.
About Data – I could be remembering wrong, but wasn't it mentioned in an episode that he had an aging program, like Dr. Soong's android wife? Nothing seemed to ever come of it; obviously he didn't have it activated for All Good Things.
The author of this note seems not to have read the novels of the extended Star Trek universe. It is true that they are not canonical in the sense that they are those of Star Wars, but they give a clue as to what could happen to the characters in the series after their completion.
The novels have never been considered official canon. So basically, the novel writers tried not to contradict what was seen on the shows, but the shows didn't care about what was going on in the novels. With Kirsten Beyer (a Trek novel writer) involved in the creation of the Picard show this may change somewhat. However, if they really, really want to do something on the new show that happens to contradict the novels I think they will go for it. Also, I'm not sure how it works but would CBS have to pay royalties to the novel writers if they reused some of their ideas on the show?
The TV producers can take any elements they want from the novels, comics, and games. All of that intellectual property belongs to Star Trek lock, stock, and phaser bank. No rights would need to be negotiated or paid for.
Okay, thanks for clearing that up.
I can see it now, an eager young Cadet or Officer who needs help/advice from Picard finds him quietly hiding away tending his vineyard, he approaches him with his long lost Ressikan Flute, perhaps his most prized possession, we'll get no answers as to how this came to be in the young man/woman's possession.
They hand it to Picard, who looks up, throws it over his shoulder and storms off and slams the door of the family home in their face.
Werbwolf
I would like him to be a professor at the academy, going on a field trip with a group of cadets as guest on a ship (perhaps the Enterprise) when something bad happens and then, at the end of episode 1, Picard has to take command and show everyone how it is done.
I would like to see Picard taking command of the underwater research project "New Atlantis" offered to him in "Family".Preferably directed by Luc Besson and with a cast of french actors.
That makes me think I would have loved seeing Jean Reno in a Trek film a couple decades back … but I don't know about Gary Oldman as a crazed STarfleet admiral snorting lines of 'moondust' off Picard's ready room desk.
skyjedi
How are they going to explain him giving up being captain of the enterprise, since Kirk told him to never leave or get promoted. Is the ship retired like the enterprise A. Did the Romulans or some other enemy destroy the Enterprise E.
Corruption scandal, taking kickbacks from the Orions. General court martial, stripped of rank and the plush captains villa at the Starfleet old folks home. He now eeks out a living scrounging the universe for priceless antiques to sell on the Ferengi black market….
@ Phil – …or he was eventually stripped of his captaincy due to his negligent burial of a highly respected Starfleet veteran's body under a pile of rocks on some forlorn planet, even though the veteran in question had been instrumental in saving the Earth from disaster in the past.
Due to feelings of guilt as he grew older, Picard finally owned up about the 'long-dead' Kirk's vital involvement in helping to overcome Soren's plans…and someone high up in Starfleet wanted to right this wrong over Picard's lack of respect for Kirk's body.
The subsequent investigation ended in Starfleet being able to identify the burial spot, so that full due honours could take place…and it was decided that enforced 'early retirement' of Picard would be the best course of action at that point.
…and the upcoming Picard storyline follows his subsequent remorse over losing his command due to not keeping quiet about the whole incident a little longer. ;)
Roman Cernjak
a 90-year-old Picard is by no means an old man. 24th century humans comfortably live up to 140 years of age. plus, as we saw in "all good things…" the other characters are still in their prime in the year 2395. if it wasn't for Irumodic, he would certainly be vital and energetic.
that said, a nemesis aesthetic with a splash of discovery would be more than welcome. just a splash, no more. with TNG/DS9 Klingons, of course.
Admiral Cornwell's chief of staff
Here's another question to ask: what will the new series even be called? Think about it: whether it be "Deep Space Nine," "Voyager," "Enterprise," or "Discovery," the tradition since 1993 has been to name a new series after the place that serves as the show's primary setting. Will this series break that convention and be called "Star Trek: Picard" or something else entirely?
Star Trek: Admiralty? Star Trek: Bureaucracy?
The day of the Picard announcement at STLV (Aug 3) CBS registered a trademark of STAR TREK: DESTINY for a potential TV show. So there's a good chance that's the name.
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