OFFICIAL ROB PELINKA THREAD.
Dr. Laker
Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:36 am Post subject:
Laker's Fan wrote:
I'm pro Mitch, appreciating that he was a very good GM for us for years. But the GM game changed when the new breed of owner moved in. Mitch fell behind the times, and his work as PBO in Charlotte has shown that.
I assumed that Mitch (and John Black) pushed all their chips in behind Jimmy. When Jimmy lost - they were out.
In the whole Buss family saga, there's an untold story to Jim's ouster in February 2017. I don't think Jeanie just woke up and said "OK, it's the trade deadline, he's out." She could've waited for the summer to do that. My Hollywood screenwriter gene says that she got wind of the plans for a coup by Jimmy & Johnny and just beat them to the punch.
There was NO COLLUSION with Russia. Ukraine, Australia, Italy, Britain and others are a different story . . .
lakez34 wrote:
FO did fine with Mitch minus free agency. Mitch's inability to land free agents was his biggest weakness. Seems like this remains true in his new position as well. Otherwise he was a solid GM for us.
But who really wants to play in Charlotte? Let's be fair. Assuming they knew what they were doing, they probably hired Mitch for that very reason. They know they're not a desirable destination for stars via free agency and are looking to build their team through every other means that doesn't require players to choose them. Mitch and Charlotte seem like a perfect match in that regard.
Luminous8 wrote:
unleasHell wrote:
Please,.. never,.. NEVER call Mitch A "Very good" GM.
I think it's one of those, is the glass "half empty" or "half full" scenarios.
Mitch was the guy who got Gasol, which led to a couple of championships..
Only a good GM could have orchestrated that...!
Not when Jerry West gift wrapped him to LA on his way out of Memphis
As Jerry West said, Jerry West had nothing to do with that deal.
Luminous8
activeverb wrote:
That's what I'm talking about. You blame Mitch for all the bad things, and come up with silly reasons to give him no credit for the good things.
You might as well just be talking to yourself in the mirror.
Maybe you should go back and read my original post again. I clearly gave him credit for Gasol, Shannon Brown, Ariza. But I won't give him credit for signing Vlad in the first place, missing on guys like Billups for DG, failed draft picks allowing the entire organization to be set back almost an e tire decade by not trading Dwight when it was clear he needed to go and then just to top it off, he went and paid MozDeng huge dollars over four. His rebuttal for such atrocious contracts? He thought there would be an amnesty provision in the new CBA.
He gets credit for making a few good deals,.. but that isn't about to qualify him as a good GM when he has such a terrible track record outside of few good plays.
activeverb
You have your own math on what you consider the pluses and minuses of Mitch's performance. I agree with some of your math, and disagree with some, so I come to a different final number on Mitch than you do.
It's cool. Either way, it's simply a subjective opinion based on a lot of easy hindsight and assumptions which may or may not be true, so I can't get too worked up about it.
You know how snipers work in teams. One man spots and tells the shooter the conditions (wind, distance, humidity), and the other pulls the trigger.
I've always considered Mitch a good trigger man. Give him a target and he'll get the job done. But whenever he's been asked to do both. To find what we need and why. That's when his flaws are most apparent.
Keep in mind, I'm working with the same info the rest of you are. So I may be wrong. That's just my opinion.
LAL1947
kikanga wrote:
That seems a fair depiction TBH... and a good analogy too.
Dr. Laker wrote:
It was reported at the time that the Buss kids had come to an agreement that they wouldn't trade any of the youth without speaking to each other about it first. Then Jeannie found out that Jim was shopping some of the young guys without telling anyone about it. That might be why she pulled the trigger when she did.
lakersfan8
1. The front office didn't invest enough on the draft but they quickly turned that around after Kobe's injury. You don't give them credit for correcting their own mistake?
2. So you feel okay with the current front office punting cap space for PG13 and KL etc, but against the previous front office trying to persuade Howard to stay? If Kobe wasn't injured and the team found a way to function that they made it to the Final, would Howard still leave?
Ziggy wrote:
I never saw that one myself. But there have been a million rumors and theories floating around about the whole thing. At some point, the parties involved might speak about this, and we'll get some narrative, though I suspect the different parties will have different versions of what happened.
I think the bottom line is that Jeanie and Jim just didn't like each other, and my guess is there were a ton of little things between, rather than his ouster really being caused by one particular event.
lakersfan8 wrote:
I've talked adamantly about how poor a job Magic did. Rob netted AD and went for the grand slam with a third max. He clearly had a good contingency plan in place. I believe in the front office now that Aron has been given a chance to make the calls and not be a figure head with Magic.
Mitch made the draft picks that dated back to Sasha, Cook and Kareem Rush. (Jimmy buss chose Bynum). Mitch made a wise move with Turiaf and Wafer. The picks of the modern era have been Buss/West picks.
As for Dwight, yes he was always going to leave. He didn't enjoy being a glorified Tyson Chandler beside of Kobe and setting screens for smash. The only guy enjoyed playing with was Pau. He was obviously not coming back and everyone and their mom knew it. So no, I don't think he comes back even if Kobe was healthy. He went to Houston thinking he was going to form the new Shaq Kobe with him spearheading that front.
As for Dwight, yes he was always going to leave. He didn't enjoy being a glorified Tyson Chandler beside of Kobe and setting screens for smash. The only guy enjoyed playing with was Pau. He was obviously not coming back and everyone and their mom knew it.
That's easy to say: Everything seems obvious with the benefit of hindsight.
But it's hard for me to imagine the Lakers being sure of that at the trade deadline in February and folding their cards with a third of the season to go.
I mean, who knows what Howard would have done if Kobe hadn't gotten injured right before the playoffs and we had actually have some noise in the post season?
I just can't sign on to criticizing Mitch for not being able to see into the future.
Oh I agree that there was more to it. I was just addressing the timing of the firing. I know it was mentioned that Jim operated in a bubble and rarely ever communicated his plans to Jeannie. The MozDeng signings seemed desperate even at the time. Then it was rumored he was shopping the youth without telling anyone. She probably wanted to pull the plug before any more damage was done. And then of course his self-imposed timeline had run its course. He likely would've been fired at the end of the season, but reneging on his word about trading the youth might have been the final straw.
It was quite publicized how he was unhappy and it looked like a smart choice to send him packing. It's not hindsight. We all thought it then too.
oaktown_dimond
The Dwight trade didn't mean much, one way or another. It was either a one year D12 rental, or Bynum's bum knees. We were screwed either way.
Lakers came out on top regardless, Dwight's one year with the Lakers were the last time he mattered in the NBA.
Jeanie and Jim had a terrible relationships. I get the sense he never told her anything, and she never asked. My impression is she loved to be able to say: "I am completely in charge, but have no idea what's going on, so I can't be blamed."
Dysfunctional on both sides.
My take is that the MozDeng signing was desperation based on the dysfunction. Jim knew he'd get fired if he didn't do something, so it made more sense for him to take a flyer even if it a short-term smarter approach would have been better for the team.
oaktown_dimond wrote:
We also had the option of trading Bynum for other players -- it wasn't just trade him for Dwight or keep him.
Anyway, both Dwight and Bynum flamed out pretty quickly. It was just a terrible time for the franchise. We had the Dwight debacle. We had the Gasol debacle. We had Kobe's injury and the mistake of giving him a big extension even though his career was effectively over. Just bad decision after bad decision.
Glad we're passed it all.
You can go back to June 2013 and find sportswriters and fans debating whether or not Dwight would resign with the Lakers. Many thought he wouldn't, but some thought he would (in part because he could offer the most money).
During his free agent tour, Dwight met with the Lakers. Some will believe the meeting was just for show, but he was at least willing to hear our offer. The meetings were reportedly tense, and didn't go the way he liked, but we'll never know if his decision was already locked in or if he was open to being swayed.
But I get if you are someone who thought he wouldn't resign, you might think it was inevitable since he didn't resign.
I think Dwight was already gone when he met with us, and if he wasn't this sealed it:
"You need to learn how it's done first, and I can teach you here," Bryant told Howard during the Lakers' presentation, witnesses in the room described to Yahoo! Sports.
Bryant didn't come to Howard's recruitment meeting in Beverly Hills to appease him, but to challenge Howard to stay and embrace the burden of the franchise's culture and embrace Bryant's demanding disposition. Bryant invoked Michael Jordan's hard-driving ways as his blueprint, and how it pushed the Chicago Bulls to six titles.
Bryant, a five-time NBA champion, insisted he wouldn't retreat in pushing Howard every day, that as much as the Lakers needed Howard, Howard needed Bryant and the Lakers, too.
"You have to learn how it's done," Bryant told Howard, witnesses described. "I know how to do it and I've learned from the best – players who have won multiple times over and over."
"Instead of trying to do things your way, just listen and learn and tweak it, so it fits you," Bryant told him.
It was never going to work with those two.
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:40 pm Post subject:
We're lucky Dwight flamed out so quickly. If had played at an MVP level after leaving us, we might have been kicking ourselves for not picking him and letting Kobe go since Kobe basically had already suffered a career-ending injury. That would have been a distasteful ending to his career.
venturalakersfan
Location: The Gold Coast
Good thing that those few good deals brought us 4 titles.
Lennon lives
venturalakersfan wrote:
Clippersground.net
When one lacks a semi-intelligent response
LAkers 4 Life
That's always been the narrative, but not correct. Mitch had been working on the Gasol trade for over a year, doing a lot of the leg work behind the scenes to pull off the trade before anyone even thought of it as a possibility.
LAkers 4 Life wrote:
This is not true. Mitch wasn't even calling about Gasol. He was calling about an Odom for Mike Miller trade. The Grizzlies are the ones who brought up a Gasol deal during the Odom/Miller call.