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Annie Giblin/Weller/Heppenstall British Home Child
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Hugs.............
Re: Annie Giblin/Weller/Heppenstall British Home Child
« Reply #18 on: Saturday 29 June 19 13:26 BST (UK) »
Nothing on Frederick Charles Giblin death notice/obit
Surrey Leader Surrey, British Columbia, Canada 6 Sep 1962, Thu - Page 6
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/33354768/frederick_charles_giblin/
"We search for information, but the burden of proof is always with the thread owner"
Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
British Census copyright The National Archives; Canadian Census copyright Library and Archives Canada
MaureeninNY
RootsChat Aristocrat
Great work,RK!!!
Given the surnames we were given by PatsyAnn it looks very good to me.
AMBLY
« Reply #20 on: Sunday 30 June 19 00:20 BST (UK) »
Quote from: RunKitty on Saturday 29 June 19 06:39 BST (UK)
IF (and this is a big "if") your Annie is actually Margaret Anna (like daughter Peggy...and her mother was Margaret Flynn) Giblin...who married Stanley Heppenstall, then married Edward Weber...the marriage to Edward was after 1940.
Patsy Ann, I guess you must have all the following gathered in your research, but I'm posting this for us all because the Stanley HEPPENSTALL/ Margaret GIBLIN marriage in Canada was/is so compelling given the relatively uncommon surnames in combination!
The mother, Margaret GIBLIN of Julia, Frederick & Annie - appears to have had another daughter, Mary Margaret who stopped in the UK.....
Frederick Charles GIBLIN (b 15 Aug 1892 Woolwich, d 31 Aug 1962 BC), having returned to the UK in 1916 with the CEF, married there after the war, in Yorkshire 1919 to Ann Ellen SCOTT.
His NOK on his CEF record was at first his sister Julia (as Sister Gerardina of Convent of Sion, Prince Albert, Sask) then his mother, Mrs M GIBLEN of 2 Harden Street, Woolwich.
In 1916, after he arrived in England with the CEF, his $20 monthly pay as from 1 April 1917, was listed as Payable to : Mother: Mrs M GIBLEN of 2 Harden Street, Woolwich. This stopped as from 1 May 1919 (probably from when he married Ann Ellen Scott).
Margaret GIBLIN the mother, was at 3 (Lower) Harden Street, Woolwich, Kent address in 1911:
Head: William BERRY 30, Labourer at Cable Works, b Kent. Married 4 yrs to:
Wife: Margaret BERRY 28, b Co. Cork, Ireland, birthed 2 children, both are living
Son: William 2½yrs
Son: Frederick 4mths
Boarder: Margaret GIBLIN 50, widow, b County Cork, Ireland
Plus 2 other boarders.
The mother's maiden name of both children William & Frederick's is: GIBLIN
William Henry BERRY & Mary Margaret GIBLIN married 1907 Woolwich.
When Frederick died 1962, wife Ann Ellen informed on his 1962 death certificate, that he was born in Prince Albert Sask, and that his mother (no name)was English.
Still asking, where Annie was in 1916? And the year/time-frame you have her saying her name is HEPPENSTALL and then saying WELLER?
"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."
Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)
Edward Weber died May 25, 1976. His obit says his first wife Caroline died in 1940 (could be 1948 - hard to read).
Posting just for reference...................it was as you said 1940.
The Winnipeg Tribune Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada 11 May 1940, Sat - Page 32
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/33384973/mrs_lina_weber/
PatsyAnnKelly
Hello Again Everyone
Firstly may I thank you all for your wonderful help . I have not been home for a couple of days so haven't filled in the blanks some of my friends have asked for. In particular I have been asked about the background, which I will set out briefly here.
My husband's grandmother (Nanny) was Kate Giblin and she was one of 4 children born to Margaret ( nee Flyn) and Charles Giblin, a serving English soldier, in Queenstown, Cork Ireland. The others were, Mary Margaret, Adelaide and Charles Henry ( who was killed in WWI). Nanny was a woman of mystery who refused to speak of her childhood. Unsurprisingly as it turned out. The Giblin family settled in Woolwich but there seems to have been some sort of family breakdown around 1889/1890 whilst Charles was serving in the Army. I have all his military papers and he seemed to go AWOL on at least one occasion which seemed to coincide with his wife Margaret taking up with a George King.
Nanny and her younger sister were placed in a Catholic Orphanage , Sisters of Nazareth,in Essex far away from family in June 1889 and Adelaide had died of Scrofula in April 1891. Kate aged 7 was not released home until July 1891. No wonder she didn't talk of her childhood!
I have as indicated, completed all my research here in the U.K. and have tracked them through the various censuses and BMD records and have a real picture of what happened in this dysfunctional family. Thanks to you who have also looked those up again for me. The family remained in Woolwich with Margaret FlynnGiblin living at 3 Hardun Street with Nanny and her family until her death. George King seems to have taken himself off to Canada, Winnipeg I believe.
Margaret and George King had at least two children for certain and probably two more who died. I have obtained the birth Certificate of Julia and it states she was Julia King born Bexley Kent 1891 to George King and Margaret King formerly Flynn! Margaret was still married to Charles Giblin, they never divorced and he had not died. I met Julia myself when she visited UK. In 1968 but the family had been given a fairy story that she had been engaged, fiancée was killed in WW1 and so she left England to become a nun in Canada where she became Mother Superior. All totally untrue. So her history was never discussed.
I have no birth cert for Annie as the name Annie King was too common and there were no Annie Giblins. She appears on the 1901 census in West Ham London with George and Margaret King as Annie King daughter aged 6. Kate ( Nanny) was with them and the rest of the Giblin/Kings were with another King family.
Interestingly the youngest of the 3 King/Giblin children, Charles Frederick GIBLIN gives his father as Charles Giblin decd on his marriage certificate when he married Annie Ellen Scott in York in May 1919.
I have his military records and was pleased to see that he was reunited with his Mother whilst serving in Europe with the CEF. I been able to track him right through to his death and that of his wife, his daughter's marriage and the still birth of her son in Port Alberini BC thanks to the Canadian online records.
What I do not know is if he and his wife who was several years older had any other children in Canada, although I have the death notifications of them and only the daughter, Mary Elizabeth was mentioned. Mary Elizabeth Giblin married a John William Wall who died in Nov 1984 Victoria BC.
I am going to break off here as this is a large, and possibly indigestible chunk of data to swallow.
I would add as I am researching from the UK I not been able to access the Canadian Voters Register. I have followed up through Veterans Arrairs a John Heppenstall mentioned by some responders and his wife was indeed Annie Taylor . My hopes have long been pinned on Stanley Heppenstall as I thought, like responders here, that it was possible had chosen to call herself Margaret Mary, similar names to the sister left behind in London. But I have no evidence to be sure.
Will continue
PatsyAnn
Just another note..... Fraderick and Ann Giblin had a daughter Mary or Elizabeth Mary/Mary Elizabeth Giblin born about 1920. There is a birth at Prestwich - Giblin?Scott registered december 1919
Mary E Giblin - mothers maiden surname Scott - Prestwich 8d 576
Mary married John William Ward in 4 October 1940
http://search-collections.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/Image/Genealogy/5d294205-1a07-4dd1-8259-fde2fa6a9589
Canada Voters Lists 1953 - John W Wall (Oxford Motors) and Mary Wall (housewife) 2862 Twenty-Fifth Avenue East- Vancouver.
John William Ward died 18 November 1984 Victoria BC.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FL1V-88W
Believe Mary Elizabeth Gilpin passed away 6 September 2005 - New Westminster, British Columbia.
Couple may have a living daughter (as per ancestry tree) They also had a son John William Wall born 7 June 1944 and died 9 June 1944 - Port Alberni, British Columbia.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QK6G-V83K
written so posted..........
There is also social media posting which I can't see fully but this refers to George Wall who would be the father of John William Wall - may be the grand daughter who has the anc tree.............so two ways to contact this lady for info - sounds like an author...........
https://es-la.facebook.com/pg/wait2write/posts/
My apologies I must clarify that I did not find Annie on the 1916 Canadian census . She was born appx 1895 according to 1901 English census so would have been around 21 by then.
Julia and Annie arrived in Canada under the name Giblin in May 1903.i have no details re journey, ship etc. Frederick Charles arrived in October 1903 on the ship Bavarian from Liverpool to Quebec. He was sent by the Catholic Emigration Society as I imagine his sisters were ( no longer in existence) to Prince Albert. All 3 children were placed in St Patrick's Orphanage in Prince Albert under the care of Father Brubeck. I understand the Orphanage burned down and so there are no surviving records.
I contacted the convent of The Sisters of Sion when I started this research 20 years ago ( before giving us as no accessible records here in U.K. as there are now). I restarted this year she a family bereavement motivated me.
The convent were helpful at the time albeit much of the info supplied was inaccurate, probably because it relied on Julia remembering/ knowing the circumstances of her arrival in Canada.
I was told that Julia had been sent from the Orphanage in Prince Albert to the convent in Moose Jaw 'to help out" but had stayed. They were unable to supply me with clear details of next of kin but did send me a form dated 1965 in which she gave her date of birth as 15/11/1895 when her birth cert shows she was born 14/11/1891. The form stated mother Margaret Giblin father George King. She entered the convent in 1910. Re next of kin it is typed "sister Mrs E Welier, 1393 Lincoln Avenue, Winnipeg 3 " beneath that in handwriting it says" a second form has Mrs Heppenstall " same address.
I have taken that to mean that her sister was first a Welier and then a Heppenstall but it could be that the form mentioned ( no longer in existence)was an earlier form and showed a Heppenstall name which could bring the Stanley Heppenstall theory into focus. I don't know where the E Welier came from perhaps husband's initial. Haven't found any Welier yet.
The convent told me that George King went to Canada too, details unknown, to find work in Winnipeg.
Far from becoming Mother Superior as family legend had it, Julia remained a lay sister ( Sister Gerardina) with mainly domestic type duties.
Julia died in 1970. A death notice in Moose Jaw Times Herald 23/5/1970 which the convent sent me states that she died 21/11/1970 aged 78 which would have been her correct age. The convent also sent me a photocopy from the same paper, undated but later than the one above, which gives notice of her funeral at St Joseph's RC Church Moose Jaw. Then same paper a later notice which details the celebrant and burial place. It also says "Sister Julia is survived by " and the convent have highlighted it before copying and so it is completely black and illegible! The best clue obliterated.
The convent say they now have no other info to give me. So I may have to contact the Moose Jaw Times Herald and ask for their help. Or even the undertakers who were W.J.Jones and son. I have photos of Julia and her grave.
I was ubsuccessful in obtaining info from the Catholic society/charity in England who may hold records relating to my three British Home Children ,as they do not provide such information because they are overwhelmed by requests relating to adoptees trying to find birth parents so historical research is not possible for such a small outfit.
I agree with you all about Stanley and Margaret Mary. That had been my own thoughts too but how to prove it?
Thanks for all the advice so far. I appreciate it very much
So the E Welier - is definitely Edward Weber (wife Margaret Weber) who lived at 1393 Lincoln Avenue, Winnipeg North according to Canada Voters Lists.