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Hon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance): All the speakers who have gone before me have given a rich tribute to Mike, and so I just want to take a few minutes to offer some personal reflections on Mike Moore but also to pick up a couple of the themes. The first of those was his love of this institution of Parliament, and all parts of it. He came to prominence relatively quickly in that first term that he was here—between 1972 and 1975—but I think, like all MPs who go through the experience of losing their seat after being in here for a period of time, when he did make it back in here, he was determined that he would make his mark even more so.

He once told me a story, when he came back in after 1978, about the fact that he really worked hard to keep in contact with his constituents. In those days, the phone bills for MPs went via the Prime Minister's office before they were released. One year, the then Prime Minister Robert Muldoon recognised that Mr Moore had a very, very large phone bill and he decided that he would make use of this in the media, and so leaked out the details of Mike's extremely large phone bill. Mike came under a lot of pressure from the media to respond to this enormous phone bill, and so his response was to say, "You can call me anything you like, but don't call me collect."—that's a joke for the over-45s in the room.

My own first experience of meeting with Mike was actually as a student president. I'm not sure, Paula Bennett, if you were with us that day or not, but he was the leader of the Labour Party at the time, and a group of student presidents had come in to lobby him very hard about reversing the introduction of fees and the hardship that students were going through. He listened patiently to us for some time, and I'd noticed earlier in the meeting that there was a very energised young man sitting in the corner of the room with a clipboard on which he was writing down absolutely everything. As we got towards the end of our presentation, Mike actually physically stood up from the table, pointed at this young man and said, "Clayton, hovercrafts—think about it.", and Clayton Cosgrove wrote down "hovercrafts". I later learnt it was a reference to some industry training needs and things that Mike had seen, but I began to see what Mr Bridges meant about sometimes finding it difficult to interpret everything that Mike had to say.

A lot of people have talked about Mike's connection to trade, and, again, I won't dwell on that either. I had the privilege of being a New Zealand diplomat just after Mike took on the role of being World Trade Organization director-general. He came to New York, where I was posted, and he was involved in a number of interesting meetings with people, but he ended up on a panel discussion in front of the whole General Assembly to discuss the importance of trade. He was eloquent and he was incredible, and he made the case in a way that few people could. He, of course, did that with his own unique style, and at one point, in the middle of it, he paused and said, "Back up the truck." There was silence, so I thought, "I wonder how this has been translated." I went across to my Chinese colleague and said, "How did the translator deal with that?", and the translator said, "The speaker is referring to heavy vehicles." Mike would've liked that, I suspect, as part of what he did. But his advocacy for trade was enormous, and his contribution to that cannot be overstated.

He had a great relationship with Ministers of trade who followed on from him, and one of his favourites, as our colleagues across the House will know, was Tim Groser. I think I'm right in saying that Tim actually worked in Mike's office when he was the Minister of overseas trade, so they had a long-lasting relationship.

I recall one story from Washington when Tim came up as the Minister. Mike, as Mr Brownlee has already mentioned, had the most extraordinary set of contacts in Washington, and he brought together this amazing array of people for Tim to speak to. The moment came in the evening for Mike to begin the formalities. He got up and he said "Ladies and gentlemen, we have one of the foremost leaders in world trade in the room tonight, a man to whose legacy we will all look back on in future years as being a person who fundamentally changed the direction of trade talks"—you can imagine the introduction went on for some time—and Mike then said, "But enough about me." I'm led to believe Tim Groser's face was quite a picture at that particular moment. He also—I won't carry on too much longer, Mr Speaker—came up with a line that I've used in this House a few times, which is that the problem with Tim Groser was that he just didn't get enough credit for splitting the atom, and there are so many more stories.

I just want to finish on two points. The first of those is that Mike Moore had every reason not to trust me or support me. I represented a couple of things about the Labour Party that Mike wasn't always that fond of, but he showed me throughout my political career the most extraordinary kindness and support. I made a couple of trips to Washington while he was there and benefited from those contacts and networks. I watched the 2012 election night result with him, which is a memory I'll share for ever and my lungs will never forget. It was an extraordinary experience to spend time with Mike in those moments, because you felt his passion for politics, but, far more than that, you felt his passion for ideas and for discussion and for debate, and I am thankful to him for showing me that kindness.

I have a feeling he was trying to deal with a few regrets and the odd little demon about what happened to the Labour Party, particularly in the 1980s and early 1990s, and he built those bridges with a number of colleagues on this side of the House who are here today. I think he really wanted to hold together the party that meant so much to him for his whole life, and for that kindness and that support, I thank him wholeheartedly.

My final words are for Yvonne. Yvonne Moore and Mike Moore were a team. They were a partnership beyond a loving relationship and marriage. They were part of the same journey in politics and in life. What they did for people, their friends, and their colleagues was huge, but Yvonne went at every step in every way with Mike, and today I really feel for Yvonne. I send all my love to her because this will be such a difficult time, but I want this House to record and to know that Yvonne Moore's contribution to New Zealand has to be recognised alongside her husband, Mike. She is a remarkable woman, and, Yvonne, we feel for you today.

E te rangatira, haere, haere, haere atu rā.

Hon SHANE JONES (Minister of Forestry): Kia ora anō tātou. E Maika, tōku mārohirohi. E Maika, tōku tautōhito. E Maika, tōku taitoa. Kua pau te wā i whakaritea ai mōu hāereere ai i waenga tonu, i runga tonu i te motu. E hoki koe ki te iwi, kua oti noa atu i a rātou te takahi atu i te ara whakamutunga. Nā reira, e kara, e moe, moe, oti atu e.

[Greetings again to all. Mike, my strong one. Mike, my wise one. Mike, my courageous one. Expired is the time that was allowed for you to travel amongst us, and on this land. Return to the people, those who have completed their traverse of the final path. Therefore, my friend, rest, rest, rest in eternity.]

It was 1988 when, for a mercifully short period of time, I was employed by Geoffrey Palmer. I was sent to represent Geoffrey Palmer because of blistering attacks coming from the National Party against the Lange Labour Government's Treaty policy. In that meeting was Koro Wētere, Roger Douglas, Mr Prebble, and Mike Moore, and there was fear that attacks from the Opposition Māori affairs spokesman were starting to lacerate the ranks of the front bench of the Labour Party. Mike Moore said, "This guy Peters is making traction." Richard Prebble said, "He must be stopped. How do we slow these things down?" Douglas said, "How much will it cost?" Koro Wētere said, "It's time to eat." That was an introduction for a 28-year-old working at the highest levels—along with Hekia Parata—of what passes for the Cabinet-style Government dealing with, in the 1980s, Treaty of Waitangi issues.

Mike also wrote a book. He was a great believer in encouraging people to self-educate, to persevere with expanding the frontiers of knowledge. He got this book published and brought it to Matauri Bay. It was about a thousand pages long. The name of the book was A World Without Walls. It was his gospel of free trade, freedom, development, and global governance. He gave me a copy. He did something quite staggering, given his belief in education—a thousand pages long, dense UN speak. He gave a copy for self-edification and education to Dover Samuels. I can assure you, if there's ever a book that was never opened in the hands of a senior Māori, it is that particular missive or tome.

There's a famous saying, and if I'm not mistaken, it's from Julius Caesar, that "A coward dies many times before their death". This man was no political coward. He has died only once. Sure, he suffered setbacks, but he stood up and kept going, whether it's as a cancer survivor as a very young man, whether it's as a failed, unfulfilled young political candidate, or whether it's as a short but enjoyable period of time that he enjoyed as the leader. So we salute him today, a fine New Zealander, very popular amongst the earthy side of our electorate and very capable—as Mr Brownlee has pointed out—of enjoying the company of his great friend Neville Wran or Mr Beazley or a host of other luminaries that he introduced us to when we made various trips as MPs to America when he was the ambassador. He truly was a people's champion.

To his wife, Yvonne: ngā mihi nui ki a koe. Without a doubt, on Friday, it will be a difficult day. But for those of us who will be present to support you in that particular, searching period, we offer you our prayers, we offer you our support, and we know that friends and others will gather around you after the crowds have disappeared and returned to their own families and their lives.

The final saying is that good men must die—me mate te tangata—but death cannot kill their names—e kore ō rātou ingoa e mūreia. A good man has died, but his name will live on in this House and amongst those of us who practise the arts of democracy and politics. Kia ora tātou.

SPEAKER: Members, I'm going to take a little indulgence and make a few comments myself. I first met Mike in these buildings when Norman Kirk was the Prime Minister and he was an Auckland member.

In 1983, when I was first a candidate for the Labour Party in Hamilton West, Mike, as part of his lamburger tour, came to Hamilton West and opened my campaign. The comments that Grant Robertson made about "Call me collect" were nearly accurate. Actually, Sir Robert Muldoon, who was at the time the Minister in charge of the Legislative Department—which was the Office of the Clerk and the Parliamentary Service—actually waved Mike's $3,000 monthly phone bill around in the House, and I think that's a bit of a sign of how times have changed.

But I can remember Mike was both happy and unhappy at that stage, during the lamburger tour, because the Minister in charge of the Legislative Department had ruled that notwithstanding a campervan, which he was using for his tour, being cheaper than a rental car and the hotel bills, Sir Robert would not approve the payment for the campervan. Mike, like a number of his successors, had some contacts in the end who, while they weren't normally Labour Party supporters, understood the importance of the message and supported that trip.

During that meeting, kicking off the campaign and kicking off the canvassing, Mike used the name of my then opponent, Mike Minogue, somewhat in vain. He described not a lamburger, but a "Minogue burger". He described it as "half tongue and half chicken". That was reported in the first edition of that day's Waikato Times, but in the home edition of the Waikato Times, it looked something like a wartime censorship exercise. I'm reliably informed that the printers were sent out by the management to chip off the block and take that phrase out of the Waikato Times. So there was a blank space on the front left-hand side of the paper on that day.

Others have referred to Mike's role in international trade. He saw it as not that complicated as far as economics was concerned. It was about people doing what they were good at and sharing it with other countries. Mike was very firmly of the view that poorer people could eat more if it was cheaper, and the way to make it cheaper was to trade it and not to have the tariff and other barriers stopping that happening. Frankly, with a few exceptions here and one more notable exception internationally, that is now the received wisdom around the world, and it certainly wasn't the case 25 or 30 years ago.

There are going to be lots of stories told, I'm sure, over time, and we've heard the story of the shared job. I know a little bit about how that actually ended up occurring, because Mike had picked up that idea. He tried with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to make contact with the Thais and, you know, the phone was not being picked up. There was no reception there. Mike was at dinner with a prominent Wellington business person at his home. The business person's wife at the time was Thai and she overheard this conversation. She got on the phone and worked her way through the staff in Thailand and got to Supachai on to the phone, and that's how that discussion about the job-sharing actually occurred. I think it just shows what a small world we actually have and the way that some of these things work.

I worked for Mike for three years, between 1990 and 1993. I think it's fair to say that it wasn't always easy. Mike used to himself say that he wanted to have more yes-men in his office, and he didn't always appreciate contrary advice. But in that time, I got to know him. I got to really appreciate Yvonne and Mike as people. My son, who was then a teenager and is now 46, idolised Mike and his friend and successor Clayton Cosgrove. I want to thank Clayton for his role in supporting Mike so much in recent years. Mike was Clayton's friend and his mentor, and I think most of us regard Mike as Clayton's father figure.

Mike was incredibly generous, even to those with whom relationships at the time weren't always positive. He helped me when I had a relatively significant legal battle—still unresolved, I might say to some people on my right—both with obtaining good legal advice and financial support for that advice. That gave us a chance to talk during his last term here in a way which I found very positive. I had another very good opportunity to do that in 2013 during the America's Cup, when he was ambassador and he was there, and I spent quite a lot of time talking. I was actually AWOL at the time. There'd been a leadership change here, and I didn't feel any need to hurry home, so we had quite a discussion about leadership changes, both then and 20 years earlier, within the Labour Party.

I do want to underline the fact that Mike was the first Minister responsible for the America's Cup. You know, most people at the time thought that the idea was mad, it was ridiculous, and we could never win it, but Mike was the person who saw how technology and innovation and renewal could make a difference to New Zealand. It was a small area for Mike, but it was, I think, an indicator of the way—as Damien O'Connor said—Mike was often right too soon. One of the things that I really regret is that after Grant Dalton has arranged a special leg of the next America's Cup to be run right outside Mike's home, he won't be there to watch it.

Jane and I visited Mike last year. It was when he wasn't great physically, but, as others have said, he was still absolutely sharp mentally, notwithstanding the obvious pain that he was in. It was only meant to be for a few minutes, but Jane and I were there for about three hours.

Yvonne—as she always was—was exceptionally supportive, as Mike was of Yvonne. I mean, one of my memories was of Mike in I think 1993, when he had missed an important meeting with a foreign visitor to his office. We sort of said, "Well, why didn't you catch the plane, Mike?" It was the fact that their cat had died and Yvonne was upset, and Mike knew that his family and Yvonne were more important at that time than any international visitor.

She was always the most important thing in Mike's life, and I'm sure that all of our thoughts will be with her.

Motion agreed to.

Honourable members stood as a mark of respect.

Waiata

SPEAKER: Thanks, Mike.

The House adjourned at 3.28 p.m.

WEDNESDAY, 12 FEBRUARY 2020

The Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.

Karakia.

VISITORS

Republic of Iceland—Steingrímur Sigfússon, Speaker of the Althingi

SPEAKER: Members, I'm sure that you will wish to welcome esteemed Steingrímur Sigfússon, Speaker of the Althingi of the Republic of Iceland and his delegation, who are present in the gallery, and the Speaker is to my left.

Steingrímur Sigfússon, accompanied by the Deputy Speaker, entered the Chamber and took a seat on the left of the Chair.

[Applause]

DEBATE ON PRIME MINISTER'S STATEMENT

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister): I move that this House express—

SPEAKER: No. I think we've got the presentation to do first.

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Sorry. Excuse me. I present the Prime Minister's statement.

SPEAKER: That paper is published under the authority of the House. Copies are available on the Table.

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I move again, with much enthusiasm. I move, That this House express its confidence in the coalition Government and commend its programme for 2020, as set out in the Prime Minister's statement.

I want to start where I started in January, as it were, because today is not the first time that I have spoken of the aspiration that this Government has for New Zealand and for this Government's programme for the next year. The first time that I spoke of the aspirations of this Government in 2020 was on 31 January, and it was under somewhat more private circumstances. It was when I last visited Mike Moore. He asked, in a way that only Mike Moore can. After we'd exchanged very brief pleasantries, he said, "What are you doing next?" The answer to that is simple: more.

I want to share with this House what I shared with Mike Moore that day: that our agenda for 2020 is based both on where we started—the circumstances and context under which this Government took office—and on where we are now and the environment that we're operating in and the experience of New Zealanders, and it is focused on where we need to go.

So let's start at the very start. In the beginning, before there was light, there were nine years of darkness. It wasn't like a black darkness; more a dark shade of blue kind of darkness—the worst kind. Now, those words may be familiar, at least to members on this side of the House. They were written by a very great writer, "Kevin Davies".

After nine long years, there may not have been a blue smoke, but there was plenty of denial. There was denial that we had a housing crisis. There was denial that kids were doing their homework in cars. There was denial that children in this country—an affluent country—did not have all that they needed to thrive. There was denial that we had an infrastructure deficit and that we were all suffering as a nation as a result. There was denial that our hospitals were broken. I don't say that lightly. Simple things like pipes being replaced, that elevators could work, or, worse still, sewage down walls were the ultimate manifestation. There was denial.

That denial seemed to exist until, after those nine years, we entered into an election phase. When we entered into that election phase, National emerged from the smoke of denial with a weighty tome known as a press statement. In that press statement they promised much. They promised roads. They promised infrastructure. They even made promises about child poverty.

But, as a very wise man said on the paepae at Waitangi, know us by our deeds. Know us by what we do, not by a press statement at the eleventh hour before people go to the polls—know us by what we do. That is why I wish to reflect on where we are now, as well as projecting forward into where we must go. Those deeds tell you a story. The first thing that they tell to you strongly is that we are a Government of infrastructure—undeniably.

I have a visual aid. The Leader of the Opposition loves this one! The Leader of the Opposition is particularly fond of this graph! This graph tells a story better than anything, and this is of course based on Treasury's data. This shows capital investment, and it demonstrates helpfully in a colour-coded manner that in 2016 we saw no new dollars for health capital expenditure. In 2017, we saw just $150 million. No wonder we had sewage in the walls.

Within two years, of course, we have invested $2.5 billion into health. Now, that number, it doesn't tell you the story of the mental health wards that we are making safe again by rebuilding them in the central North Island in Waikato. It doesn't tell you about the investment we're putting into Tai Rāwhiti, which doesn't have beds for alcohol and drug rehabilitation. It doesn't tell you about the new maternity services and child health services at Starship that we are rebuilding and expanding. But that is what that $2.5 billion—and, of course, we can't forget Dunedin Hospital.

We have put $1.5 billion into schools. For the first time ever we have long-term planning to make sure that we can cater for over 100,000 students coming into our schooling system. Again, the message that you don't see in just a graph is that we are putting money into every single school—up to $400,000 for most State schools so that they can do simple things like repair the roof or put down new carpet. I'll for ever remember the story of Grant Robertson saying he visited a local school and couldn't find the principal—it was January, I believe. They were out and about walking around with a tradie, taking notes of all the work they could do because of what we delivered at the end of last year.

That is, of course, before you take into account just the huge extent of what we put in through the New Zealand upgrade package: $12 billion, which adds a significant amount to make sure that we get New Zealanders out of congestion, that we give them options for walking and cycling and rail, and that we continue to make sure that safety improvements also continue to be at the top of our agenda.

Infrastructure means going beyond just that rebuild and future planning. The Infrastructure Commission has been key. Financing has been key through the Infrastructure Funding and Financing Bill to support future housing and urban development. Ultimately, I stand proudly as the Prime Minister for the "Government of infrastructure", and it is undeniable—it is undeniable.

To be the Government of infrastructure, we have to be the Government of training and education. We simply cannot deliver this infrastructure without having that relentless focus on training and education. When we came in, we moved swiftly to implement fees-free. That not only has reduced the burden of debt for our young people for generations to come, it's meant that those moving into apprenticeships for those first two years pay nothing. That has made a difference. Since that time 3,900 Kiwis have taken up construction apprenticeships. That is exactly what this country needed. Not only that, we've boosted vocational education and training: 4,000 places for trades academy and gateway places.

Mana in Mahi: a programme I will, alongside our Minister, forever be proud of. We are just at the beginning of that programme, but I read the reports and I read the stories, for instance, of the young person who had been on a long-term benefit, who found, through Mana in Mahi, a subsidised role by an employer working in landscaping. The difference that it made to their mental health, in their own words, was "undeniable". I am so proud of that programme. It sits alongside He Poutama Rangatahi as well. We are placing thousands of young people through that programme into work. The result: a 20 percent increase in construction apprenticeships, more than 11,000 Kiwis in the construction sector in the last couple of years according to the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment. We are making a difference.

Of course, we need every single one of those young people and people in apprenticeships, because we are also proudly a Government of housing. And I say that firmly and proudly. I'm going to speak, Mr Speaker, if you will allow me, to review the last Government's record, because that side of the House has nothing but a foundation of shame when it comes to housing. Homelessness rates at the worst levels we've seen in the OECD and homeownership the worst since 1951. At a time when children were sleeping in cars, what did they do to State houses? They decreased—our net State housing stock decreased by 5,000. When we needed housing the most, that Government sold them. It is a disgrace. We've had to rebuild ever since, but we have.

We have now created more than 4,258 public housing places. Every single one of these is a home. Every single one of these is a home for someone that did not exist before. In the time that it has taken to rebuild what they've created, we have put people in homes, and it is making a difference. First-home buyers now make up 24 percent of the market. That has been through the changes we made to tax loopholes to make sure that we shut down overseas investment in our residential housing market and changes that we've made to income support for those buying houses. We have ensured that 1,100 households have been housed through Housing First. There's more to come, because we currently have 3,480—

Hon Dr Nick Smith: What about KiwiBuild?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: —houses under construction in the Government build programme, Minister Smith. I understand why you're a little defensive, because we're fixing what you broke, and you broke our housing market, and you stood idly by while people lived on the streets.

I am proud of what we have achieved. It was only over summer that—we, of course, continue to acknowledge that there is more work to do. We have houses under stress. Over the summer, I was speaking with some of the individuals who did see the City Mission over the Christmas period. One thing that stood out to me is that, yes, they were seeking that assistance at that time of year, but the number of those people I spoke to who had, in recent months, moved into new State houses was phenomenal. The message they gave me is "We are now warm and dry." Now, what a difference that that policy is making to New Zealanders everywhere. This week we've announced an extra $300 million into homelessness, with more details to come. We are proudly a Government of housing and the new builds prove it.

The reason that housing is so important to us, of course, is because family wellbeing and child wellbeing sit at the heart of everything that we do. Now, we've demonstrated that from the moment we came into this place, with the Families Package. I'm proud that this year we'll be celebrating another increase in paid parental leave. Of course, we've had that aspiration of lifting it to 26 weeks, and we will. That is an incredible milestone for us—couple that with the Best Start payment, which continues to roll out, increases to the Working for Families package, and, of course, the winter energy payment. You'll see from that State of the Nation Report today that the Salvation Army is acknowledging the difference that that investment is making to low-income families.

On top of that, we've had the indexation of benefits. Now, that means that when wages go up, not only do our superannuitants benefit, but those who are on those tight incomes who are on Government support, they will also see that increase to help them keep pace with the cost of living. It all makes a difference. We know from those changes that between 50,000 and 70,000 children will be lifted out of poverty, and what could be more important than that? Couple that alongside those increases to the minimum wage, and I acknowledge New Zealand First; it was part of their coalition agreement, so we'll see that go up once again in April this year. By the time that happens, those people on a minimum wage will be $126 a week better off from the changes that we as a Government have made.

I am happy to talk about the cost of living. We know that there are too many New Zealand families who feel the strain. Dropping things like NCEA fees, increasing support for schools so that they don't ask for school donations, reducing the cost of going to the doctor, making sure that we are driving more housing supply to try and bring down those housing costs in the private sector as well, and, overall, of course, making sure that when there's a market failure and a problem in the market like fuel, we do something about it, and we will keep doing something about it.

We are also proudly a Government of health and mental health, and, again, I let the numbers tell the entire story. First of all, we have grown the health workforce: 3,000 new medical professionals. We've had 1,699 nurses—and they are paid more, of course, with the important settlement that we were a part of—and 736 doctors. We've seen an increase in Pharmac, and, of course, that's meant that a flow-on effect is more funding for important drugs like those that have benefited those who are, sadly, experiencing battles with cancer. Many of us will have stories of people stopping and telling us on the street what a difference that has made, and I am one of them.

And, very proudly, the largest funding boost to mental health this country has ever seen. Just yesterday, I was looking at some of the numbers around people who are already benefiting from those front-line mental health services, and they are at their GPs' offices, they are in Mana Ake in schools for kids, they are in our schools for our young people. We're making sure that wherever someone is, help is not far away, whether it's picking up telehealth services or visiting their local doctor, because the need is so great. There is more work to do. The Suicide Prevention Office will be key. We're currently going out with requests for proposals for our youth services, our Pasifika and Māori services, and this year will keep seeing the expansion of those front-line services that we are so proud of.

No matter where we turn, though, in health, mental health, every part of the system, we have found need, and I find it somewhat ironic to hear the member that services the area where we've seen such desperate need, in Counties Manukau, so vocal on this issue. The Simpson review will be pointing to some of the extra work that we need to do, because wherever we have turned, there have been problems that we need to address.

Next, of course, is dealing with the structural issues, because, of course, it's not enough for us just to say that we deal with these things down track. We need to make sure we have an economy that is supporting everyone, that is delivering prosperity for everyone, and it's been a mantra you will have heard from the Minister of Finance consistently. I'm happy to let the numbers speak for themselves. We're a Government that has delivered GDP growth of 2.7 percent. When you look around us, others are falling on hard times, and there's no denying it's had an impact for us, but when you take into account the net average that we had under the National Government—the average GDP growth was 2.1 percent—I feel confident that we are doing well.

Unemployment: of course, the Reserve Bank would tell you we're at full employment, at 4 percent. It is a tight labour market, and, again, relative to what we inherited—4.7 percent when we came to office. The average hourly wage sitting at 3.6 percent—in that Government's first term, it was roughly 2.1 percent we were seeing: those increases in hourly wages. Net debt: 21 percent versus 22.9 percent under the last Government. We've seen $13 billion in surpluses in our first two years and $11 billion in surpluses in our next five.