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Frankini says some power utilities see these large on-site generators as unwanted competition and so they're being obstructionists. He says some charge excessive fees that have derailed some projects. The utilities argue that such fees are justified because they have to be prepared to offer backup power to a factory or office building if its on-site generator goes down. Penni McLean-Conner is vice president of customer care for NSTAR, the power utility around Boston.

frankini says some power utilities see these. large on-site; generators as unwanted competition and so they're being obstructionists he says some charge excessive, fees that have derailed; some projects the utilities argue that, such fees are, justified because they have to be, prepared to offer backup power to a factory. or office building if its on-site generator goes down penni, mclean-conner is vice president of customer care for nstar the power utility around

Frankini says some power utilities see these large on-site generators as unwanted competition and so, they're being. obstructionists, He says some charge excessive fees that have derailed some projects The utilities argue that such fees are justified because they have. to be prepared to offer backup power to. a factory or office building if its on-site, generator goes down Penni McLean-Conner. is vice president of customer care, for NSTAR the power utility around

frankini says some power utilities see these large on-site generators as unwanted competition and so they're being obstructionists. he says some charge excessive fees that have derailed some projects. the utilities argue that such fees are justified because they have to be prepared to offer backup power to a factory or office building if its on-site generator goes down. penni mclean-conner is vice president of customer care for nstar, the power utility around boston.

If they need us as their backup, than we have to have the infrastructure in place to support that. And in these big units, like you're talking at Biogen, that's a substantial infrastructure that needs to be in place.

if they need, us as their backup than we have to have the infrastructure in place to support that and in these big units like you're. talking at biogen that's a substantial infrastructure that needs to. be in

If they; need us as their backup than we have to have the infrastructure in place to support that And in these big units like you're talking at. Biogen, that's a substantial infrastructure that needs to be in

if they need us as their backup, than we have to have the infrastructure in place to support that. and in these big units, like you're talking at biogen, that's a substantial infrastructure that needs to be in place.

Still, after pressure from business groups, environmentalists and state regulators, NSTAR recently agreed to lower the fees it charges to customers like Biogen who generate their own electricity. Chris Arnold, NPR News, Boston.

still after pressure from business groups environmentalists and, state regulators nstar recently agreed to lower the fees it charges to customers like biogen who generate their own, electricity chris arnold npr news

Still after pressure from business groups environmentalists and state regulators NSTAR recently agreed to lower the fees it charges to customers like Biogen who generate their, own, electricity Chris Arnold NPR News

still, after pressure from business groups, environmentalists and state regulators, nstar recently agreed to lower the fees it charges to customers like biogen who generate their own electricity. chris arnold, npr news, boston.

Ten years ago this Sunday, members of the Duke University lacrosse team held an off-campus party. Two strippers were hired - one of them, a young black woman who went to the police.

ten years ago this sunday members of the duke university lacrosse team held an off-campus party two strippers were hired - one of them a young black woman who. went to. the

Ten years ago this Sunday; members of. the Duke University lacrosse, team, held an. off-campus; party Two strippers were hired - one of them a young black woman, who went to the

ten years ago this sunday, members of the duke university lacrosse team held an off-campus party. two strippers were hired - one of them, a young black woman who went to the police.

(SOUNDBITE OF DOCUMENTARY, "FANTASTIC LIES")

(soundbite of documentary "fantastic

(SOUNDBITE. OF DOCUMENTARY "FANTASTIC

(soundbite of documentary, "fantastic lies")

She's asked, you know - have you been the victim of a sexual assault? She said yes.

she's asked you know - have you been the. victim of a sexual assault? she said

She's asked you know - have you been the victim, of. a sexual. assault? She said

she's asked, you know - have you been the victim of a sexual assault? she said yes.

What unfolded was a story that captivated the nation. The narrative - wealthy, white university athletes had taken advantage of an underprivileged African-American woman. It made many people sick.

what unfolded was a story. that captivated the nation the; narrative - wealthy white university athletes had taken advantage of an underprivileged african-american woman it made many people

What unfolded was a story that captivated the nation The narrative - wealthy. white university athletes had taken advantage of an underprivileged African-American woman It made many, people

what unfolded was a story that captivated the nation. the narrative - wealthy, white university athletes had taken advantage of an underprivileged african-american woman. it made many people sick.

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "FANTASTIC LIES")

(soundbite of film "fantastic

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM "FANTASTIC

(soundbite of film, "fantastic lies")

I'm shocked and appalled that there are still varsity letters on these athletes.

i'm. shocked and appalled that there are still varsity letters on these

I'm shocked and appalled, that there are still varsity letters on these

i'm shocked and appalled that there are still varsity letters on these athletes.

Three weeks after a woman accused several Duke lacrosse players of rape and sexual assault, head coach Mike Pressler has resigned. Also, the rest of the lacrosse season was canceled.

three weeks after a woman. accused several duke lacrosse players of rape, and sexual assault head coach mike pressler has resigned also the, rest of the lacrosse, season was

Three weeks; after a woman accused, several, Duke lacrosse. players of rape and sexual assault head coach Mike Pressler has. resigned Also the rest of the lacrosse. season was

three weeks after a woman accused several duke lacrosse players of rape and sexual assault, head coach mike pressler has resigned. also, the rest of the lacrosse season was canceled.

Ultimately, three players were charged with rape by District Attorney Mike Nifong who quickly became a big part of the story himself. He did dozens of interviews talking about the case and the athletes' behavior at a time when he was running for office. He won the election, and he kept his job. This whole story is laid out in the documentary "Fantastic Lies" that's airing this Sunday on ESPN. The director is Marina Zenovich.

ultimately three players were charged with rape. by district attorney, mike nifong who quickly became a big part of the story himself he did dozens of interviews talking about the case and the athletes' behavior at a time when he was running for, office he won the election, and he kept his job this whole story is laid out in the documentary "fantastic lies" that's airing this. sunday on espn the director, is marina

Ultimately three players were charged with rape by District, Attorney Mike; Nifong who quickly became a big part of the story himself He did dozens of interviews talking about, the case and the athletes' behavior at a time when he was, running for office He won the election, and he kept his job This whole story is laid out in the documentary "Fantastic Lies" that's airing this Sunday on ESPN The director is Marina

ultimately, three players were charged with rape by district attorney mike nifong who quickly became a big part of the story himself. he did dozens of interviews talking about the case and the athletes' behavior at a time when he was running for office. he won the election, and he kept his job. this whole story is laid out in the documentary "fantastic lies" that's airing this sunday on espn. the director is marina zenovich.

It was just a - you know, a perfect storm of everyone overreacting and kind of journalists taking the lead of the DA who was going on television and basically acting as if he had some smoking gun.

it; was, just a - you know a perfect storm of everyone overreacting and kind of journalists taking the lead of the da who was going on television and, basically acting as if he had some smoking

It was just a - you know a perfect storm of, everyone overreacting and kind of journalists taking the lead, of, the DA who was, going on television and basically acting as if he had some smoking

it was just a - you know, a perfect storm of everyone overreacting and kind of journalists taking the lead of the da who was going on television and basically acting as if he had some smoking gun.

But there was no smoking gun. In fact, there was no evidence, DNA or otherwise, that a crime had happened at all. It took more than a year for the three players to clear their names, including Duke's captain David Evans.

but there was no smoking gun in fact there was no evidence, dna or, otherwise that. a crime had happened at all it took more than a year for the three players to clear their names including duke's captain david

But there was no, smoking gun In fact there was no evidence DNA or otherwise that a crime, had happened at all It took more; than a. year for the three players to clear their names including Duke's captain David

but there was no smoking gun. in fact, there was no evidence, dna or otherwise, that a crime had happened at all. it took more than a year for the three players to clear their names, including duke's captain david evans.

(SOUNDBITE OF DOCUMENTARY, "FANTASTIC LIES")

(soundbite of documentary "fantastic

(SOUNDBITE OF DOCUMENTARY "FANTASTIC

(soundbite of documentary, "fantastic lies")

With the leading edge of the oil slick expected to hit the Mississippi Delta area sometime tomorrow, Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal declared a state of emergency. At the White House, President Obama said today he will utilize every single available resource at our disposal, and Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano promised an all-out response.

with the leading edge of the oil slick expected to hit the mississippi delta area; sometime tomorrow louisiana governor bobby jindal declared a state of emergency at the white house president obama said today he, will utilize every single available resource at our disposal and homeland security secretary janet napolitano promised an all-out

With the leading edge of the oil. slick expected to hit the Mississippi Delta area sometime tomorrow Louisiana Governor. Bobby Jindal declared a state of emergency At the White, House President Obama said today he; will utilize every single available resource at our disposal and Homeland Security Secretary. Janet Napolitano promised an all-out

with the leading edge of the oil slick expected to hit the mississippi delta area sometime tomorrow, louisiana governor bobby jindal declared a state of emergency. at the white house, president obama said today he will utilize every single available resource at our disposal, and homeland security secretary janet napolitano promised an all-out response.

Last night, BP alerted us to additional oil leaking from their deep underwater well. They are working with our support to estimate the size of this breach. As has just been mentioned, the president has urged, out of an abundance of caution and mindful of new and evolving information, that we must position resources to continue to confront this spill.

last night bp alerted us to additional oil leaking from their deep underwater well they are working with our, support to, estimate the size of this breach as has just been mentioned the president has. urged out of an abundance of caution, and mindful of new and evolving information that we must position resources to continue to confront this.

Last night, BP; alerted us to additional oil leaking from their deep underwater well They are, working with our support to estimate the size of this, breach As has just, been mentioned, the president has urged out of an abundance of caution, and mindful of new and evolving information that we must. position resources to continue to confront this

last night, bp alerted us to additional oil leaking from their deep underwater well. they are working with our support to estimate the size of this breach. as has just been mentioned, the president has urged, out of an abundance of caution and mindful of new and evolving information, that we must position resources to continue to confront this spill.

That being said, we have been anticipating and planning, and today, I will be designating that this is a spill of national significance.

that being said we, have been anticipating and planning and today i will be designating that this is a spill of national

That being said we have been anticipating and planning and today. I will be designating that this is a spill of national

that being said, we have been anticipating and planning, and today, i will be designating that this is a spill of national significance.

Crews continue to work around the clock to stop the flow of oil and contain the slick, but how did this happen in the first place? Aren't there safety valves to close the pipes if there's a break? And why is it so hard to plug this leak?

crews continue to work around the clock to stop the flow of oil and contain the slick but how did this happen in the. first place? aren't there safety valves to close the pipes if there's a, break? and why is it so hard to plug this

Crews continue to, work around the clock to stop the flow of oil and contain the slick but, how, did. this happen in the first, place? Aren't, there safety valves to close the pipes if there's a break? And why is it so hard to plug this

crews continue to work around the clock to stop the flow of oil and contain the slick, but how did this happen in the first place? aren't there safety valves to close the pipes if there's a break? and why is it so hard to plug this leak?

800-989-8255. Email us: [email protected]. And you can join the conversation on our website. That's at npr.org, click on TALK OF THE NATION.

800-989-8255. email us: [email protected] and you can join the conversation on our website that's at npr.org click on talk; of. the

800-989-8255. Email us: [email protected] And you can join the conversation on, our website That's at npr.org click on TALK OF THE

800-989-8255. email us: [email protected]. and you can join the conversation on our website. that's at npr.org, click on talk of the nation.

David Biello joins us now from Scientific American in New York City, where he is associate editor of energy and environment. Thanks very much for being with us today.

david biello joins us now from scientific american in new york city where he is associate editor. of energy and environment thanks very much; for being with us

David Biello joins us now from Scientific American in New York City where he. is associate. editor of energy and environment Thanks very much for being with us

david biello joins us now from scientific american in new york city, where he is associate editor of energy and environment. thanks very much for being with us today.

Thanks for having me.

thanks for having

Thanks for having

thanks for having me.

And what do we know about the spill today we did not know yesterday?

and what do we know about the spill today we did not know

And what do we know about the spill today we did not know

and what do we know about the spill today we did not know yesterday?

Well, we know it's leaking five times as much oil as you mentioned in your opener there. It's up to about 200,000 gallons a day. To put that into perspective, the Exxon Valdez was, in total, about 10 million gallons. So it'd take a couple of months of leaking at this rate to catch up to that disaster.

well we, know, it's leaking five times as. much oil as you mentioned in your opener there it's up to about 200,000 gallons a day to put that into perspective the exxon valdez was in total about 10 million gallons so it'd take; a couple of months of leaking. at. this rate to catch up to that

Well we know it's leaking five times as much oil as you mentioned in your opener there It's up to about 200,000 gallons, a day To; put that into; perspective the Exxon Valdez. was in total about 10 million gallons So it'd take a couple of months of leaking at this rate to catch up to, that

well, we know it's leaking five times as much oil as you mentioned in your opener there. it's up to about 200,000 gallons a day. to put that into perspective, the exxon valdez was, in total, about 10 million gallons. so it'd take a couple of months of leaking at this rate to catch up to that disaster.

And the last kind of deepwater oil rig spill like this happened back in 1979, 1980 off the coast of Mexico. And before they were able to cap that one - and it took almost a year to do so - it spilled 140 million gallons.

and the last kind of deepwater oil rig spill like this happened back. in 1979, 1980 off the coast of mexico and before they were able to cap, that one - and it took, almost, a year to do so - it spilled 140 million

And the last kind of deepwater oil rig spill like this happened back in 1979, 1980 off the coast of Mexico And before they. were able to cap that one - and it took. almost a year to do so - it spilled 140 million.

and the last kind of deepwater oil rig spill like this happened back in 1979, 1980 off the coast of mexico. and before they were able to cap that one - and it took almost a year to do so - it spilled 140 million gallons.

Wow. And they're saying maybe three months more for this?

wow and they're saying maybe three months more for

Wow And they're saying maybe three months, more for,

wow. and they're saying maybe three months more for this?

Yeah. All the, let's say, permanent solutions take a lot of time to do. And those permanent solutions range from drilling a new well to kind of intersect the existing well and get the oil flowing in a different direction rather than spilling directly into the Gulf, to putting a dome or a cap over the wellhead to, you know, block off the oil.

yeah all the let's say permanent solutions take a lot of time to do and those permanent solutions range from drilling a, new well. to kind. of intersect, the existing well and get the oil flowing in a different. direction rather than spilling directly into; the gulf to putting a dome or, a cap over the, wellhead, to you know block off the

Yeah All the let's say permanent solutions take. a, lot of. time to. do And those permanent solutions range from drilling a new. well to kind of intersect. the existing well and get the oil. flowing in a different direction rather than, spilling directly into the Gulf to putting a dome or a cap over the wellhead to you know block, off the

yeah. all the, let's say, permanent solutions take a lot of time to do. and those permanent solutions range from drilling a new well to kind of intersect the existing well and get the oil flowing in a different direction rather than spilling directly into the gulf, to putting a dome or a cap over the wellhead to, you know, block off the oil.

Here's an email question we got from Tom(ph) in Fairbanks, Alaska. The blowout protectors did not work on the Gulf rig or the Timor Sea rig. They are touted as the reason offshore rigs are supposedly so safe. How are they supposed to work? Is there any reason to think they are generally effective? And tell us what a blowout protector is.

here's an email question we got from tom(ph) in fairbanks alaska the, blowout protectors did not work on the gulf rig or the timor sea rig they are touted as the reason offshore. rigs are supposedly so safe how are they supposed to work? is there any. reason to think they are generally effective? and tell. us what a, blowout protector

Here's an email question we, got from Tom(ph) in Fairbanks Alaska, The blowout protectors did. not work on. the Gulf, rig or the Timor Sea rig They are touted as the reason offshore rigs, are supposedly so. safe How are they supposed to work? Is there, any reason to think they are generally effective? And tell. us what a blowout protector

here's an email question we got from tom(ph) in fairbanks, alaska. the blowout protectors did not work on the gulf rig or the timor sea rig. they are touted as the reason offshore rigs are supposedly so safe. how are they supposed to work? is there any reason to think they are generally effective? and tell us what a blowout protector is.

Yeah, they're actually called blowout preventers. And as the name implies, they're intended to avoid exactly this circumstance. At the moment when the pipe that connects the oil well to the rig at the top of the ocean -remember, this is 5,000 feet down, so we're talking almost a mile and a half -when that blows out, this set of valves and it's, I believe, four in total, at least one of them is supposed to close and choke off the oil so that you don't get a spill.

yeah, they're actually called blowout preventers and as the name implies they're intended to avoid exactly this circumstance at the moment when the pipe that connects the. oil well to the rig at the top of the ocean -remember this is 5,000 feet down so we're talking almost a mile and a half -when that blows out this set of valves and it's i believe four in total at least one of. them. is supposed, to close and choke off. the oil so that you don't get a

Yeah they're actually called blowout preventers And as the name implies they're intended to avoid exactly, this circumstance At the. moment. when the pipe that connects the oil well to the rig at the, top of the ocean -remember this is 5,000 feet down, so. we're talking; almost a mile and a, half -when that blows, out, this set of valves and it's I believe four in total at least, one of them is supposed to close and choke off the oil so that you don't get a

yeah, they're actually called blowout preventers. and as the name implies, they're intended to avoid exactly this circumstance. at the moment when the pipe that connects the oil well to the rig at the top of the ocean -remember, this is 5,000 feet down, so we're talking almost a mile and a half -when that blows out, this set of valves and it's, i believe, four in total, at least one of them is supposed to close and choke off the oil so that you don't get a spill.

This happens automatically?

this happens

This happens

this happens automatically?

It's supposed to happen automatically. Obviously, that did not happen in this case. Like I said, there are multiples of these valves so they're supposed to be fail-safes for fail-safes. None of those have worked. And even though there are kind of robotic subs down there working on this blowout preventer and pumping fluid in - these are hydraulic valves, so, you know, it's the pressure of the oil that actually causes it to close. And they're pumping fluid into these valves in an attempt to close them off. And it's still not working.

it's supposed to happen automatically obviously that did not happen, in this case like i said there are. multiples of these valves so they're supposed. to be fail-safes for fail-safes none of those have worked and even though there are. kind of robotic subs down there working on this blowout preventer and pumping fluid in - these are hydraulic valves so you know it's the pressure of the oil. that actually causes it to close, and they're pumping fluid into these valves in an attempt to close them off and it's still not

It's supposed to happen automatically Obviously that did, not happen in, this case Like I said. there are multiples of these valves so they're supposed to be fail-safes for fail-safes None of those, have worked And even though there are kind. of robotic subs down there working on this blowout preventer and pumping fluid in - these are, hydraulic valves so you know it's the pressure of the oil that actually causes it to close And they're; pumping fluid into these valves in an, attempt to close them off And it's still not

it's supposed to happen automatically. obviously, that did not happen in this case. like i said, there are multiples of these valves so they're supposed to be fail-safes for fail-safes. none of those have worked. and even though there are kind of robotic subs down there working on this blowout preventer and pumping fluid in - these are hydraulic valves, so, you know, it's the pressure of the oil that actually causes it to close. and they're pumping fluid into these valves in an attempt to close them off. and it's still not working.

There are about 4,000 rigs like this out there. And many of them have these blowout preventers. And blowout preventers have worked in the past - haven't worked this time, so this is a big technology failure, a big one.

there are about 4,000 rigs like this out there and many of them have these blowout preventers and blowout. preventers have worked in the past - haven't worked, this, time so, this is. a big technology failure a big

There. are about 4,000 rigs like this out there, And many of them have these blowout preventers And blowout preventers have worked in the past - haven't worked this time. so this is a big technology failure a; big

there are about 4,000 rigs like this out there. and many of them have these blowout preventers. and blowout preventers have worked in the past - haven't worked this time, so this is a big technology failure, a big one.

Is this kind of valve state of the art? Are there better ones, newer ones that some people are using that weren't in place in this rig?

is. this kind, of. valve state of the art? are there better ones, newer ones, that some people are using that weren't in place in this

Is this kind of valve state of the art? Are there better ones, newer ones that some. people are using that weren't in place in this

is this kind of valve state of the art? are there better ones, newer ones that some people are using that weren't in place in this rig?

This is pretty much state of the art. I mean, there are some improvements, but it's - ultimately, even though it's big, 450 tons, it's pretty simple technology. I mean, all you're trying to do is put a cap over the well if something - if a worst-case scenario ensues. Unfortunately, in this case, those hydraulic valves failed, for whatever reason.

this is pretty. much state of the art i mean there are some improvements but it's - ultimately even though, it's big 450 tons it's pretty simple technology; i mean all you're trying to do is. put a cap over the well if something - if a worst-case, scenario ensues unfortunately in this case those hydraulic valves failed for whatever

This is pretty much state of the art I mean there are some improvements but it's - ultimately even though it's big 450 tons it's. pretty simple technology I mean all, you're trying to do is put a cap over the well, if something - if a worst-case scenario ensues Unfortunately in. this case those hydraulic valves failed. for whatever

this is pretty much state of the art. i mean, there are some improvements, but it's - ultimately, even though it's big, 450 tons, it's pretty simple technology. i mean, all you're trying to do is put a cap over the well if something - if a worst-case scenario ensues. unfortunately, in this case, those hydraulic valves failed, for whatever reason.

And it could be the pressure of the surrounding ocean. It could be particular circumstances of this blowout. Remember, we still don't fully understand what caused this accident in the first place. We don't know why the rig exploded, killing the 11 workers.

and it could, be the, pressure of the surrounding ocean it could be particular circumstances of this blowout remember we still don't fully, understand, what caused this accident in the first place we don't know why the rig exploded killing the

And it could. be the, pressure of the surrounding ocean It could be particular circumstances of this blowout Remember we still don't fully understand. what caused this accident in the first place We don't know why the rig exploded, killing the

and it could be the pressure of the surrounding ocean. it could be particular circumstances of this blowout. remember, we still don't fully understand what caused this accident in the first place. we don't know why the rig exploded, killing the 11 workers.

And the - as I understand it, BP was leasing this rig, is that a common arrangement?

and the - as i understand it bp was, leasing. this rig, is; that a common,

And the - as I understand it BP was leasing this rig is that a, common

and the - as i understand it, bp was leasing this rig, is that a common arrangement?

That is a common arrangement. What is less common, and, I guess, speaks to BP's confidence in the blowout preventer, is to not carry disaster insurance. Unfortunately for BP, they are now, kind of, on the hook for the full cost of this cleanup, which now involves the military, which has now become a spill of national significance, meaning that oil spill prevention boats and whatnot from all around the country will be coming to this area to help contain the spill.

that is a common arrangement what is less common and. i guess speaks to bp's confidence in the blowout preventer is to not; carry disaster insurance unfortunately, for bp they. are now kind of on the hook for the full cost of this cleanup which now involves the military which has now become a spill of national significance meaning that oil, spill prevention boats and whatnot from all around the country will be coming, to this area to help contain the

That is a common arrangement What is less common and I guess speaks to BP's confidence in the blowout preventer is to not carry disaster, insurance, Unfortunately for BP they are now kind. of on the. hook for the full cost of this cleanup which, now involves the military which has now become a spill of national significance meaning that oil spill prevention boats, and whatnot from all around the country will. be coming to this. area to help contain the

that is a common arrangement. what is less common, and, i guess, speaks to bp's confidence in the blowout preventer, is to not carry disaster insurance. unfortunately for bp, they are now, kind of, on the hook for the full cost of this cleanup, which now involves the military, which has now become a spill of national significance, meaning that oil spill prevention boats and whatnot from all around the country will be coming to this area to help contain the spill.

And by the time this is over, it's going to be a pretty hefty price tag. Just drilling the extra well alone, the one that's going to, kind of, intersect the original well and choke off the supply of oil, it's hundreds of millions of dollars.

and by the time this is over. it's. going to be a pretty hefty price tag just drilling the extra well alone the one that's going to kind of intersect the original well and choke off the supply of oil it's hundreds of millions of

And by the time this is over it's going to be a pretty hefty price tag, Just. drilling the extra well alone the one that's going, to kind of intersect the original, well and choke off the supply of, oil it's hundreds of millions; of

and by the time this is over, it's going to be a pretty hefty price tag. just drilling the extra well alone, the one that's going to, kind of, intersect the original well and choke off the supply of oil, it's hundreds of millions of dollars.

And the White House did say today, that indeed, they were planning to pass the bill directly along to BP. This is not going to be the taxpayer who picks it up.

and the white house did say today, that indeed they were planning to pass. the bill directly along to bp; this is not going to, be the taxpayer who picks it

And the White House did say today that indeed they, were planning, to, pass the bill, directly along to BP This, is not going to be. the taxpayer who picks it

and the white house did say today, that indeed, they were planning to pass the bill directly along to bp. this is not going to be the taxpayer who picks it up.

Let's get some callers on the line: 800-989-8255. Email us: [email protected]. We're talking with David Biello, associate editor of energy and environment at Scientific American. If you have nuts-and-bolts questions about this oil spill, give us a call. We'll start with Doyle(ph), Doyle with us from Reno, Nevada.

let's get some callers on. the line: 800-989-8255. email us: [email protected] we're talking with david biello associate editor of energy and environment at scientific american if you have nuts-and-bolts, questions about this oil spill give us a call we'll start with doyle(ph), doyle with us from reno

Let's get some callers; on the. line: 800-989-8255. Email us: [email protected] We're talking with David Biello associate editor of energy, and environment at, Scientific American If you have nuts-and-bolts questions about. this oil spill give us a call We'll. start with Doyle(ph), Doyle with us. from Reno

let's get some callers on the line: 800-989-8255. email us: [email protected]. we're talking with david biello, associate editor of energy and environment at scientific american. if you have nuts-and-bolts questions about this oil spill, give us a call. we'll start with doyle(ph), doyle with us from reno, nevada.

Hi. Thanks very much for taking my call. Curious - I haven't really heard what the depth of this is. I assume it's relatively deep because of the use of robots.

hi thanks very. much for taking my call curious - i haven't really heard what the depth of this is i assume it's relatively deep because of the use of

Hi Thanks very much for taking my call Curious - I, haven't really heard what the, depth of, this is, I assume it's, relatively deep because of the use of.

hi. thanks very much for taking my call. curious - i haven't really heard what the depth of this is. i assume it's relatively deep because of the use of robots.

David Biello just told us, I think, 5,000 feet below.

david biello just told us, i think 5,000 feet

David Biello. just told us I think 5,000 feet

david biello just told us, i think, 5,000 feet below.

That's right.

that's

That's

that's right.

Right. Is the weight of the robots such that they might be able to push on the pipe and crimp the pipe to reduce the flow?

right is the weight of the robots such that they might be; able to push on the pipe and, crimp the pipe to reduce. the

Right Is the weight, of. the, robots such that they might be able to push on, the pipe and crimp the pipe to reduce the

right. is the weight of the robots such that they might be able to push on the pipe and crimp the pipe to reduce the flow?

Is that an option, David?

is. that an option

Is that an option

is that an option, david?

The riser, because of the pressure and the lengths - and we don't have a good picture of, kind of, how much of the riser is left. The riser is the pipe that, again, connects the wellhead and the rig at the surface of the water.

the riser because of the. pressure and. the lengths. - and we, don't have a good. picture of kind of, how much of the riser is left, the riser, is the pipe, that again connects the wellhead and the rig at the; surface, of the

The, riser, because of the pressure and the lengths - and we don't have a good picture of kind of how much of the riser is left The riser is the pipe that again connects the wellhead and the rig at the, surface of the

the riser, because of the pressure and the lengths - and we don't have a good picture of, kind of, how much of the riser is left. the riser is the pipe that, again, connects the wellhead and the rig at the surface of the water.

Mm-hmm.

mm-hmm.

So that's 5,000 feet long. Part of the reason that they had underestimated the spill is that they hadn't found all the leaks in that riser. So the pressure of the oil and the length of the riser make it kind of difficult for these relatively small robotic subs to choke it - choke it off, as it were.

so that's, 5,000 feet long part of the reason that they had underestimated the spill is that they hadn't found all the leaks in that riser so the pressure of the oil and the length of the. riser make it kind of difficult for these relatively small, robotic subs to choke it - choke it off as it

So that's 5,000 feet long Part of the reason that they had underestimated the. spill is that they, hadn't found, all the leaks in that riser So the pressure of the oil and the length of the riser make it kind of difficult for these relatively small, robotic subs to choke it - choke it off as it

so that's 5,000 feet long. part of the reason that they had underestimated the spill is that they hadn't found all the leaks in that riser. so the pressure of the oil and the length of the riser make it kind of difficult for these relatively small robotic subs to choke it - choke it off, as it were.

Are these...

are

Are

are these...

A better approach is to get the blowout preventer to work as it should.

a better approach is to get. the blowout preventer to work as it

A better, approach is to get the blowout, preventer to work as it

a better approach is to get the blowout preventer to work as it should.

Are these blowout preventers near the top or near the bottom?

are these blowout preventers near the top, or near the

Are these blowout preventers near the top or near the

are these blowout preventers near the top or near the bottom?

They're at the bottom. They're right there at the wellhead, so it's basically the cap on the well, and it's supposed to, like I said, kick in the instant that, you know, that kind of the riser disconnects or blows out.

they're at the bottom they're right there at the wellhead so it's basically the cap on the well and it's supposed to like i said kick in the instant that you know that kind of the riser disconnects. or, blows

They're at the bottom They're right there, at the wellhead so it's basically; the cap; on the well. and. it's, supposed to like I said kick in the, instant that you know that. kind of the riser disconnects or blows

they're at the bottom. they're right there at the wellhead, so it's basically the cap on the well, and it's supposed to, like i said, kick in the instant that, you know, that kind of the riser disconnects or blows out.

Doyle?

doyle?

Great. Thank you very much.

great thank you very

Great Thank you very

great. thank you very much.

Appreciate the phone call. And the - another part of this, so depending on where that riser, that long pipe from the wellhead at the bottom - the floor of the Gulf of Mexico going all the way up to the surface - depending on where that oil is gushing out of, does that depend on where it flows to? Does it rise to the surface? Does it flow underneath the surface?

appreciate the phone call and the - another part of this. so depending on where that riser that long pipe from the wellhead at the bottom - the floor of the gulf of mexico. going all the; way up to the surface - depending on where that oil is gushing out of does that depend on where it, flows to? does. it rise to, the surface? does it flow underneath the

Appreciate the phone call And the - another part of this so depending, on where. that riser that long pipe from the wellhead at, the, bottom. - the floor of the Gulf of Mexico going all the way up to the surface - depending on where that oil is gushing out of does that depend. on where it flows, to? Does it rise, to the surface? Does, it flow. underneath, the

appreciate the phone call. and the - another part of this, so depending on where that riser, that long pipe from the wellhead at the bottom - the floor of the gulf of mexico going all the way up to the surface - depending on where that oil is gushing out of, does that depend on where it flows to? does it rise to the surface? does it flow underneath the surface?

Yeah. That, I mean, that does have an impact. Again, you could, you know, theoretically, if the entire riser was intact and there was, say, a leak right at the blowout preventer and a leak 5,000 feet away and the bottom of the surface, you'd end up with different oil patches on the surface. But, ultimately, what we see is an 1,800-square-mile big oil patch, so all of the leaks are kind of flowing together, and they will hit the coast in short order unless something is done.

yeah that i mean that does have an impact again you. could you know theoretically if the entire riser was intact. and there was say a, leak right at the blowout preventer and a leak, 5,000 feet away and the bottom. of the surface you'd end up with different, oil patches on the surface but ultimately what we see is an 1,800-square-mile big oil patch so all of the leaks, are kind of flowing together and they will hit the coast in short, order unless, something is.

Yeah That, I mean, that does have an impact Again you could you know theoretically if the, entire riser was intact and, there was say a leak right at the blowout. preventer and a leak 5,000 feet away and the bottom of the, surface you'd end up. with different oil patches on the surface But ultimately what we see is an 1,800-square-mile big oil patch so all of the leaks are kind of flowing; together and they will hit the coast in short order unless something is

yeah. that, i mean, that does have an impact. again, you could, you know, theoretically, if the entire riser was intact and there was, say, a leak right at the blowout preventer and a leak 5,000 feet away and the bottom of the surface, you'd end up with different oil patches on the surface. but, ultimately, what we see is an 1,800-square-mile big oil patch, so all of the leaks are kind of flowing together, and they will hit the coast in short order unless something is done.

And, obviously, a lot of efforts are being taken to prevent that from happening, ranging from, you know, booms and skimmers. These are ships that are, kind of, herding the oil together and then scooping it out of the water; to the Coast Guard, yesterday, actually set it on fire to see if that might help cut down on the amount of oil that ultimately ends up hitting the shore and hitting some of the - and this has been less discussed - the deep water reefs and other significant ecosystems in the area.

and obviously a lot of efforts are, being taken to prevent that from happening ranging from you know booms and skimmers, these are ships that are kind of, herding the oil together, and. then scooping it out of the water to the coast guard yesterday actually; set it on fire to see if that might help cut down on the amount. of, oil that ultimately ends up, hitting the shore and hitting some of the - and this has been, less, discussed - the deep water reefs and other significant. ecosystems in the

And; obviously a lot of, efforts are being taken to prevent, that from happening ranging from you know, booms and. skimmers These are ships that are kind of herding the oil together and then scooping it, out of the water to the Coast Guard. yesterday actually set it on; fire to see if that might help cut down on the amount of. oil that ultimately ends up, hitting the shore and, hitting, some of the - and this, has been less discussed - the deep water. reefs and other significant ecosystems in. the

and, obviously, a lot of efforts are being taken to prevent that from happening, ranging from, you know, booms and skimmers. these are ships that are, kind of, herding the oil together and then scooping it out of the water; to the coast guard, yesterday, actually set it on fire to see if that might help cut down on the amount of oil that ultimately ends up hitting the shore and hitting some of the - and this has been less discussed - the deep water reefs and other significant ecosystems in the area.

And, by the way, our colleagues at ALL THINGS CONSIDERED tonight are going to be focusing on the potential environmental damage, so stay tuned to an NPR station to get more details on that. Here's an email - it's untitled - the Wall Street Journal reported this morning, this well did not have a, quote, remote-control shut off switch that may be used in other countries to prevent these kinds of major spills. It's called an acoustic switch. Are you familiar with that technology and how does it work?

and by, the way our colleagues at all things considered tonight are going to be focusing on the potential environmental damage; so, stay tuned to an, npr station to get, more details on that here's an email - it's untitled - the wall street journal reported this morning this well did not have a quote remote-control shut off switch that may, be used in other countries to prevent these kinds, of major spills it's called an acoustic, switch, are you familiar with that technology and how does it

And by the way our colleagues at ALL THINGS CONSIDERED tonight are going to be focusing on the. potential environmental damage so stay. tuned to an NPR station to get more details on that Here's an email - it's untitled - the Wall, Street Journal reported this morning this. well did, not have a quote remote-control shut off switch that may be used in other countries to prevent these kinds of major spills It's, called an acoustic switch Are you familiar with that technology, and how does it

and, by the way, our colleagues at all things considered tonight are going to be focusing on the potential environmental damage, so stay tuned to an npr station to get more details on that. here's an email - it's untitled - the wall street journal reported this morning, this well did not have a, quote, remote-control shut off switch that may be used in other countries to prevent these kinds of major spills. it's called an acoustic switch. are you familiar with that technology and how does it work?

Basically, it responds to acoustic signals and attempts to engage the blowout preventer when something like this happened, assuming that the blowout preventer wasn't kind of triggered by the action of the well explosion itself. Those are available in other countries, but again it's actually kind of a bell and whistle, if you will. It's nice to have, obviously, in a situation like this. But, theoretically, the fact that you have four valves in this blowout preventer that respond to hydraulic pressure, they should kick in. They should have kicked in. And it will be interesting to see what prevented them from kicking in.

basically it responds to acoustic, signals and. attempts to engage. the blowout preventer when something like this happened assuming that the blowout preventer wasn't kind of triggered by the action of the well explosion itself those are available in other countries but again it's actually kind of a bell and whistle if you will it's nice to have obviously in, a situation like this but theoretically the. fact that you have, four valves in this blowout preventer that respond to hydraulic. pressure they, should kick in they should have. kicked in and it will be interesting to see, what prevented them from kicking

Basically it responds to acoustic signals and attempts to, engage the blowout, preventer. when something like; this happened assuming that the blowout preventer wasn't kind of triggered by, the action of the well explosion, itself Those are available in other countries but again it's actually kind of a bell and whistle, if you will. It's nice to have obviously in a situation like this But theoretically the fact that you have. four valves in this; blowout preventer that respond to hydraulic pressure they should kick in They should have kicked in And, it will be interesting to see what prevented them from kicking

basically, it responds to acoustic signals and attempts to engage the blowout preventer when something like this happened, assuming that the blowout preventer wasn't kind of triggered by the action of the well explosion itself. those are available in other countries, but again it's actually kind of a bell and whistle, if you will. it's nice to have, obviously, in a situation like this. but, theoretically, the fact that you have four valves in this blowout preventer that respond to hydraulic pressure, they should kick in. they should have kicked in. and it will be interesting to see what prevented them from kicking in.

We're talking with David Biello again of Scientific American. You're listening to TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News.

we're talking with david biello again of scientific. american, you're listening to talk of the nation from npr

We're talking, with David Biello again of Scientific, American You're listening to TALK OF THE NATION from NPR

we're talking with david biello again of scientific american. you're listening to talk of the nation from npr news.

And let's go to Margie(ph), Margie with us from Portland.

and let's go to margie(ph), margie with us from

And let's go to Margie(ph), Margie with us from

and let's go to margie(ph), margie with us from portland.

Yes. I'm wondering - can you hear me?

yes i'm wondering - can you hear,

Yes I'm wondering - can you hear

yes. i'm wondering - can you hear me?

Yeah. You're on the air. Go ahead.

yeah you're on, the air go

Yeah You're on the air Go

yeah. you're on the air. go ahead.

I'm wondering if there's any chance that beginning to drill a release well maybe should have happened earlier than it seems to be happening, and whether a neutral adviser who had no interest in saving money for the company might have been able to make that decision at an earlier time than BP executives would make it, because of the high costs.

i'm wondering if there's any chance that beginning, to drill a release well maybe should have happened earlier than it seems to be happening and whether a neutral adviser who had no interest, in saving money for the company might have been able to make that decision at, an earlier time than bp executives would make it because of the high

I'm wondering if there's any chance that beginning to drill a release well maybe, should have; happened earlier. than it seems to be, happening and whether a neutral adviser, who had no interest in saving money for the company might have been able to make, that decision, at an earlier time than BP executives would make it because of the high

i'm wondering if there's any chance that beginning to drill a release well maybe should have happened earlier than it seems to be happening, and whether a neutral adviser who had no interest in saving money for the company might have been able to make that decision at an earlier time than bp executives would make it, because of the high costs.

Yeah, that's a tough one for me to answer without kind of internal BP meeting-minutes kind of thing. But it seems to me, from the outside, that BP has pretty much instantly decided that drilling another well is the way to go. The problem is you have to get a drilling rig into place and start the drilling. These are not, again, it's 5,000 feet down. It's not kind of simple. And they're also trying to do something pretty difficult, which is intersect an existing well with a new well.

yeah that's a, tough one for me to answer without kind of; internal bp meeting-minutes kind of thing. but it seems to me from the outside that. bp has. pretty much instantly decided. that drilling another well is the way to go the, problem is you have to get a drilling. rig. into place and start the drilling these are not again it's 5,000 feet down it's not kind of, simple and they're, also trying to do something pretty difficult which; is intersect an existing well. with a new

Yeah. that's a tough one for me to answer without kind of internal BP. meeting-minutes kind of thing But it seems to me from the outside that BP has pretty much instantly decided that drilling another well is, the way to go The problem is you have to get a drilling rig into place and, start the drilling These are not again it's 5,000 feet down It's not kind of simple And they're also trying to do something pretty difficult which is intersect an existing well with a. new

yeah, that's a tough one for me to answer without kind of internal bp meeting-minutes kind of thing. but it seems to me, from the outside, that bp has pretty much instantly decided that drilling another well is the way to go. the problem is you have to get a drilling rig into place and start the drilling. these are not, again, it's 5,000 feet down. it's not kind of simple. and they're also trying to do something pretty difficult, which is intersect an existing well with a new well.

Typically, when you're drilling, you're just drilling down into the resource, which is a much bigger kind of target to hit than an existing well. Whether it could've been done faster or if rigs could've been mobilized faster, is tough to say at this point. I think, certainly, all due speed has been taken by everybody involved with this, especially as the kind of scale of this has become more visible, from space and everywhere else.

typically when you're drilling you're. just drilling down into the resource which is a much bigger kind of target to hit than an existing well whether it could've been done faster or if rigs could've been mobilized. faster is tough to say at this point i think certainly all due speed has been taken by everybody involved with this especially as the kind of scale of this has become more visible from space and everywhere

Typically when you're drilling you're just drilling down into. the resource which is a much bigger kind of target, to hit than an existing well Whether it could've been done, faster, or. if rigs could've been mobilized faster is tough to say at this point I think certainly all due speed has been taken by everybody involved with this especially as the kind of scale of this has become more visible from space and everywhere

typically, when you're drilling, you're just drilling down into the resource, which is a much bigger kind of target to hit than an existing well. whether it could've been done faster or if rigs could've been mobilized faster, is tough to say at this point. i think, certainly, all due speed has been taken by everybody involved with this, especially as the kind of scale of this has become more visible, from space and everywhere else.

The anti-war movement has had its ebbs and flows, as do all vital social movements.

the anti-war movement has had its ebbs and, flows as do. all vital social

The anti-war movement has had, its ebbs and flows as do all vital social

the anti-war movement has had its ebbs and flows, as do all vital social movements.

Well, now, the U.S. government is in charge. BP was in charge, but now that it's a spill of national significance, the U.S. government will kind of take control.

well, now the u.s government is in charge bp was in charge but now that it's a spill of national significance the u.s government will kind of take

Well. now the U.S government is in charge BP was in charge but, now that it's a spill of national significance the U.S government will kind of take

well, now, the u.s. government is in charge. bp was in charge, but now that it's a spill of national significance, the u.s. government will kind of take control.

And that's a term of art. That's like declaring a national disaster or so.

and that's a term of art that's like declaring a national, disaster or,

And that's a term of art That's like declaring a national disaster or

and that's a term of art. that's like declaring a national disaster or so.

Exactly.

exactly.

Yeah.

yeah.

And that just basically means all the nation's resources are mobilized to address this spill. I - it would be very unwise of BP to say, you know what, we don't like your plan, U.S. government, because the U.S. government is, of course, in charge of the leases that allow this deep-water oil exploration in the first place. And they were, as everybody knows, probably, the U.S. government have been opening up new offshore oil developments along the East Coast and elsewhere - that was announced last month.

and that just basically means all the nation's resources are mobilized to address this spill i - it would be very. unwise. of bp to say you know what we don't like your plan u.s government because the u.s government is of course in charge of the, leases that allow this deep-water. oil exploration in the first place and they were as everybody, knows probably. the u.s government have been opening up new offshore oil developments along the east coast and elsewhere - that. was, announced last

And that just, basically means. all the nation's resources are mobilized to. address this spill I - it would be very unwise of BP to say you know what we don't like your plan U.S government because the U.S government is of course in charge of; the leases, that allow this deep-water oil exploration in the first place, And they were as everybody knows probably the U.S government have. been opening up new. offshore oil developments along the East Coast and elsewhere - that was announced last

and that just basically means all the nation's resources are mobilized to address this spill. i - it would be very unwise of bp to say, you know what, we don't like your plan, u.s. government, because the u.s. government is, of course, in charge of the leases that allow this deep-water oil exploration in the first place. and they were, as everybody knows, probably, the u.s. government have been opening up new offshore oil developments along the east coast and elsewhere - that was announced last month.

Margie, thanks very much for the call. Let's go next to - this is David(ph), David with us from Norfolk in Virginia.

margie thanks very much for. the call let's go next to - this is david(ph), david with us from norfolk in

Margie thanks very much for the call, Let's go next. to - this is David(ph), David with us from Norfolk in

margie, thanks very much for the call. let's go next to - this is david(ph), david with us from norfolk in virginia.

Yes, sir, doesn't this actually, write with the gentleman's comment. Shouldn't this put a little bit of a halt on drilling off the East Coast? You know, the Chesapeake Bay is unhealthy enough as it is. It has enough problems. And it looks to me, like, this accident - they talk about how safe drilling is and everything else, but it's kind of like skydiving. When you have an accident in skydiving, dead is dead.

yes sir doesn't this, actually write. with the gentleman's comment shouldn't this put a little bit of a halt on drilling off the east coast? you know; the chesapeake bay is unhealthy enough as it is it has; enough problems; and it looks to me like this accident - they, talk about, how safe drilling is and everything else but it's kind of like, skydiving when you have an accident in skydiving dead is

Yes sir doesn't this actually write with the gentleman's comment Shouldn't this, put a little bit of, a halt on drilling, off the East Coast? You know the Chesapeake Bay is unhealthy enough as it is It has enough problems And it looks to, me like this accident - they talk about how safe drilling is and everything else, but it's, kind of like skydiving When you; have an accident in skydiving dead is

yes, sir, doesn't this actually, write with the gentleman's comment. shouldn't this put a little bit of a halt on drilling off the east coast? you know, the chesapeake bay is unhealthy enough as it is. it has enough problems. and it looks to me, like, this accident - they talk about how safe drilling is and everything else, but it's kind of like skydiving. when you have an accident in skydiving, dead is dead.

Yeah. David, I think there was a statement by a senior official at the Interior Department today, that said they may put a halt on all offshore drilling until it can be proven that these valves will work. But to his larger question, David Biello, what do you think?

yeah, david i think there was a statement; by a senior official at the interior department today, that said they may put a halt on all offshore drilling until it can be proven that these valves will work but; to his larger question david biello what do you.

Yeah; David I think there was a statement by a senior official at the Interior Department today that said they may put. a halt on all offshore drilling until it can be proven that these valves will work But to his larger question. David Biello what do you

yeah. david, i think there was a statement by a senior official at the interior department today, that said they may put a halt on all offshore drilling until it can be proven that these valves will work. but to his larger question, david biello, what do you think?

Well, I - it certainly seems clear that, you know, even the White House press secretary has said this will have an impact. But at the same time, he said that we would go forward with offshore drilling. It remains to be seen. You might recall that back in 1969, there was a similar oil spill off the coast of California. That's the reason...

well i - it certainly, seems clear that you, know even the white, house press secretary has said this will have an impact but at the same time he. said that we would go. forward; with offshore drilling it remains to be seen you might, recall that back in 1969, there was a similar oil spill off the. coast of california that's. the

Well I - it. certainly; seems clear that you, know even the White House press secretary has said this will have an impact But at the same time he said that we would go, forward with offshore drilling It remains to be seen You might recall that back in 1969, there was a similar, oil, spill off the coast of California That's the

well, i - it certainly seems clear that, you know, even the white house press secretary has said this will have an impact. but at the same time, he said that we would go forward with offshore drilling. it remains to be seen. you might recall that back in 1969, there was a similar oil spill off the coast of california. that's the reason...

Santa Barbara, yeah.

santa barbara

Santa Barbara

santa barbara, yeah.

...why we have a moratorium on oil drilling off the East Coast and the West Coast that existed until last month. It was a similar situation. You ended up with oil on the coast. It was a big disaster. We may see something similar. We may see a return of the moratoriums. Already, Democrats and Republicans from affected states have said that this is a major disaster and one that has either confirmed them in their opposition to offshore drilling, or caused them to question it.

...why we have a moratorium, on oil drilling, off the east coast and the west coast that existed until, last month, it was a similar situation you ended up with oil on the. coast it was a big disaster we may see; something similar we may see a. return, of the moratoriums already democrats and republicans from affected states have said. that this is a major disaster and one that has either confirmed; them in their opposition to, offshore drilling or, caused them to question

...why we have a moratorium on oil, drilling off the. East Coast and the West Coast that existed until last month It was a, similar situation You ended up with oil on; the coast It was a big disaster We may see something, similar, We may see a return of the moratoriums Already Democrats and Republicans from affected states have said that this is a major disaster and. one that has either. confirmed them in their opposition to offshore drilling or caused, them to question

...why we have a moratorium on oil drilling off the east coast and the west coast that existed until last month. it was a similar situation. you ended up with oil on the coast. it was a big disaster. we may see something similar. we may see a return of the moratoriums. already, democrats and republicans from affected states have said that this is a major disaster and one that has either confirmed them in their opposition to offshore drilling, or caused them to question it.

Finally, this email question from Robert in Visalia, California. Have there been situations where the blowout preventers worked correctly? What's the success rate?

finally, this email question from robert in visalia california have there been situations where the, blowout preventers worked correctly? what's the success

Finally this email question from Robert in Visalia California Have there. been situations where the blowout preventers worked. correctly? What's the success

finally, this email question from robert in visalia, california. have there been situations where the blowout preventers worked correctly? what's the success rate?

Unfortunately, a lot of that is kind of confidential information. Most oil companies aren't going to tell you when they have a disaster if they don't have to report it. But there have been circumstances in the past where blowout preventers have worked. Certainly, they've been shown to work in the lab and they have worked in accidents in the past. Like I said, there are about 4,000 rigs out there. Everything doesn't always go smoothly. And this technology is needed to make sure that, you know, we don't end up with situations like this. That said, there have been two in the last 30 years, and both of them pretty big, nasty oil spills.

unfortunately a lot of that is kind of confidential information most oil. companies aren't going to tell you when they have a disaster if they; don't have to report it but there have been circumstances in the past where blowout. preventers have worked certainly they've been shown to work in the lab, and they have worked in accidents in the. past like i said there are about 4,000 rigs out, there everything doesn't always go smoothly and this technology is needed to make sure; that you know, we don't end up with situations like this that said there have. been two in the last 30 years and both of them pretty big nasty oil

Unfortunately a lot of that is kind; of confidential. information Most. oil companies aren't going to, tell you when they have a disaster if they don't have to report it But there have been circumstances in the past where blowout preventers have worked Certainly they've been shown to work in the lab and they have worked in accidents in the, past Like I said there are about 4,000 rigs out there. Everything doesn't always go smoothly And this technology is needed to make sure that you know we don't, end up with situations like this That said there have been two in the last 30 years and both of them, pretty, big nasty oil

unfortunately, a lot of that is kind of confidential information. most oil companies aren't going to tell you when they have a disaster if they don't have to report it. but there have been circumstances in the past where blowout preventers have worked. certainly, they've been shown to work in the lab and they have worked in accidents in the past. like i said, there are about 4,000 rigs out there. everything doesn't always go smoothly. and this technology is needed to make sure that, you know, we don't end up with situations like this. that said, there have been two in the last 30 years, and both of them pretty big, nasty oil spills.

David Biello, thanks very much for your time today.

david biello thanks very much for your time

David Biello, thanks very much. for your time

david biello, thanks very much for your time today.

Sure.

sure.

David Biello, associated editor of energy and environment at Scientific American, joined us from his offices in New York City. Much more on this later today, as we mentioned, on ALL THINGS CONSIDERED.

david biello associated editor of energy and environment at scientific american joined us from his offices in new york city much more on this later today as we. mentioned on all things

David, Biello associated editor of energy and environment at Scientific American joined us from his offices in, New York City Much more on this later today as we mentioned on ALL, THINGS

david biello, associated editor of energy and environment at scientific american, joined us from his offices in new york city. much more on this later today, as we mentioned, on all things considered.

Tomorrow, on TALK OF THE NATION: SCIENCE FRIDAY, wind energy and the government's decision to allow Cape Wind to build turbines off the shore of Massachusetts. This is TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News. I'm Neal Conan in Washington.

tomorrow on talk of the nation: science friday. wind energy and. the government's, decision to allow cape wind to build turbines off the shore of massachusetts this is talk; of the nation from npr; news i'm neal conan in

Tomorrow on TALK OF THE NATION: SCIENCE FRIDAY wind energy, and the government's decision to allow Cape Wind to build turbines off the shore of Massachusetts This is TALK OF. THE NATION from NPR. News I'm, Neal, Conan in

tomorrow, on talk of the nation: science friday, wind energy and the government's decision to allow cape wind to build turbines off the shore of massachusetts. this is talk of the nation from npr news. i'm neal conan in washington.

This is Talk of the Nation. I'm Neal Conan in Washington. Retired Army Lieutenant Colonel John Nagl helped rewrite the field manual on counterinsurgency in Iraq, one of the factors credited for improvements there. In the latest issue of Foreign Policy Magazine, Nagl coauthored a new version of the manual called "Counterinsurgency Field Manual: Afghanistan Edition," and they talk of doubling the American troop level in Afghanistan.

this is talk of the nation. i'm neal conan in washington retired army lieutenant colonel john nagl helped rewrite the field manual on counterinsurgency. in iraq one of. the factors credited for improvements there in the latest issue of foreign policy. magazine nagl coauthored a new version of the manual called "counterinsurgency field manual: afghanistan, edition" and they talk of; doubling the american, troop level in

This is Talk of the Nation I'm Neal Conan in Washington Retired Army Lieutenant Colonel. John Nagl helped, rewrite the field manual on counterinsurgency in Iraq, one, of the factors credited for improvements there In; the latest issue of Foreign Policy Magazine Nagl coauthored a new version of the manual called "Counterinsurgency Field Manual: Afghanistan Edition" and they talk of doubling the. American troop level in

this is talk of the nation. i'm neal conan in washington. retired army lieutenant colonel john nagl helped rewrite the field manual on counterinsurgency in iraq, one of the factors credited for improvements there. in the latest issue of foreign policy magazine, nagl coauthored a new version of the manual called "counterinsurgency field manual: afghanistan edition," and they talk of doubling the american troop level in afghanistan.

John Nagl joins us to explain why he thinks that a surge alone will not be enough, why we might have to accept increased American casualties, and why some of our best weapons don't shoot. If you served in the military in Afghanistan or worked as a contractor there, what can we do to stem the tide of the Taliban? 800-989-8255. Email us, [email protected]. You can always join the conversation at our Web site. That's at npr.org; click on Talk of the Nation. Lieutenant Colonel Nagl is a senior fellow at the Center for a New American Security in Washington. He is with us here in Studio 3A. Nice to have you back on Talk of the Nation.

john nagl joins, us to explain why he thinks that a surge alone. will not be enough why; we might have to accept increased american casualties. and why some of our. best. weapons don't shoot, if you served in the military in afghanistan or worked as a contractor there what can we do to stem the tide of the taliban? 800-989-8255. email us [email protected] you can always join, the conversation at our web site that's at npr.org click, on talk of the nation lieutenant colonel nagl is a senior fellow at the center for a new american, security in washington he is with us here in studio 3a nice to have you back on talk of the

John Nagl joins. us to explain why he thinks that a surge alone will not be enough why we. might have to accept increased American. casualties and why some of our best weapons don't shoot If you served in the military. in Afghanistan or worked as a contractor there what. can we do to stem the tide of, the Taliban? 800-989-8255. Email us [email protected] You can, always join the conversation at our Web site That's, at npr.org click on. Talk of the Nation Lieutenant Colonel Nagl is a senior fellow at the Center for a New American Security. in Washington He is with us. here in Studio, 3A Nice to have you back on Talk of the

john nagl joins us to explain why he thinks that a surge alone will not be enough, why we might have to accept increased american casualties, and why some of our best weapons don't shoot. if you served in the military in afghanistan or worked as a contractor there, what can we do to stem the tide of the taliban? 800-989-8255. email us, [email protected]. you can always join the conversation at our web site. that's at npr.org; click on talk of the nation. lieutenant colonel nagl is a senior fellow at the center for a new american security in washington. he is with us here in studio 3a. nice to have you back on talk of the nation.

It's good to be back, Neal.

it's; good to be back

It's good to be back,

it's good to be back, neal.

And one of the things you immediately point out at this article, Iraq is not Afghanistan; Afghanistan is not Iraq.

and one. of the things you immediately point out at this article iraq is not afghanistan afghanistan is not

And one of the things you immediately point out, at this article Iraq is not, Afghanistan Afghanistan is not

and one of the things you immediately point out at this article, iraq is not afghanistan; afghanistan is not iraq.

Lt. Col. NAGL: In fact, Afghanistan is harder than Iraq. Afghanistan is a bigger country; it's a more populous country; it has very serious ethnic divisions, very, very difficult terrain. When you fly over in a helicopter as I did in November, it is almost unbelievable that people could eke a living out of that land. And perhaps, most importantly, it shares a border with Pakistan, one of the world's most dangerous, least stable countries, a nuclear-armed country and the base not just of al-Qaeda, but also of a lot of the Taliban who come across the border to fight us there in Afghanistan.

lt col, nagl: in fact afghanistan, is harder than iraq afghanistan is, a bigger country it's a more populous country it has; very serious ethnic divisions very very difficult terrain when you fly over; in a helicopter as i did in november it is almost unbelievable that people; could eke a living out of that land and perhaps most importantly it shares a border with pakistan one of the world's most dangerous least stable countries a nuclear-armed country and the base not just of al-qaeda but also of a, lot of the taliban who come across the border to fight us there, in

Lt Col NAGL: In, fact Afghanistan is; harder than. Iraq Afghanistan is a bigger country, it's; a more populous country, it. has very serious ethnic divisions very very difficult terrain. When you fly over in. a helicopter as I did in November it. is almost unbelievable that people could eke a living out of that; land And perhaps most importantly it shares a border with Pakistan one of the world's most dangerous least stable countries a nuclear-armed country and the base, not just of. al-Qaeda but also of a lot of the Taliban who come across the, border to fight us there in.

lt. col. nagl: in fact, afghanistan is harder than iraq. afghanistan is a bigger country; it's a more populous country; it has very serious ethnic divisions, very, very difficult terrain. when you fly over in a helicopter as i did in november, it is almost unbelievable that people could eke a living out of that land. and perhaps, most importantly, it shares a border with pakistan, one of the world's most dangerous, least stable countries, a nuclear-armed country and the base not just of al-qaeda, but also of a lot of the taliban who come across the border to fight us there in afghanistan.

So, fundamentally, a rural conflict, whereas Afghanistan was, in large part, an urban conflict.

so fundamentally a rural, conflict whereas afghanistan was in large part an urban

So fundamentally a. rural. conflict whereas, Afghanistan was in large, part an urban

so, fundamentally, a rural conflict, whereas afghanistan was, in large part, an urban conflict.

Lt. Col. NAGL: That's correct, and in some ways, it's even harder fighting a rural counterinsurgency campaign because the people aren't compact in ways that you can control a large number of people or at least control access to areas for a large number of people with fairly small numbers of troops. So, the number of troops required in Afghanistan is going to have to be far larger than the number of troops we've deployed there to date.

lt col nagl: that's correct. and in some ways it's even harder fighting a rural counterinsurgency, campaign because the. people aren't compact in ways that you can control. a large number of people or at least control access to areas, for a large. number of people with fairly small numbers, of troops so the number of troops required in afghanistan is going to have to be far larger than the number of troops we've deployed there to

Lt Col NAGL: That's correct and in some ways it's even harder fighting a rural counterinsurgency campaign because the people aren't compact in. ways that you can control a large number of people or at least control access to areas for a large number of people with fairly small numbers of troops So the number of troops required in Afghanistan is going to have to, be far larger than the number of troops we've deployed there to

lt. col. nagl: that's correct, and in some ways, it's even harder fighting a rural counterinsurgency campaign because the people aren't compact in ways that you can control a large number of people or at least control access to areas for a large number of people with fairly small numbers of troops. so, the number of troops required in afghanistan is going to have to be far larger than the number of troops we've deployed there to date.

Those ebbs and flows apply to both the size of the anti-war movement and its influence. For instance, Becker says, when President Bush declared that the mission has been accomplished in Iraq, attendance at protests waned, as the anti-war movement seemed almost moot. But soon after, he says, it became clear that the mission had not been accomplished and thousands more began showing up at anti-war protest and rallies.

those, ebbs and flows apply to, both the size of, the anti-war movement and its influence for, instance becker says when president bush declared that the mission has been accomplished in iraq attendance at protests waned as the anti-war movement seemed almost, moot but. soon after he says it became clear. that the mission had not been accomplished. and thousands more began showing up at anti-war protest and

Those ebbs and flows apply to both the size of the anti-war movement and its influence For instance Becker says when President Bush declared that the, mission has. been accomplished in, Iraq attendance at protests waned as the anti-war movement seemed almost moot But soon after he says it became clear that the mission had not been accomplished and thousands more began showing up, at anti-war protest and

those ebbs and flows apply to both the size of the anti-war movement and its influence. for instance, becker says, when president bush declared that the mission has been accomplished in iraq, attendance at protests waned, as the anti-war movement seemed almost moot. but soon after, he says, it became clear that the mission had not been accomplished and thousands more began showing up at anti-war protest and rallies.

And by October 25th, 2003, six months after the fall of Baghdad, we had a demonstration of 100,000 people back in Washington, D.C., and it was clear that the anti-war movement had wind in its sails and it was a vital requirement for the people of this country to stand up and be involved in the political process.

and by october 25th 2003, six months after the fall of baghdad we had a demonstration of 100,000 people, back in washington d.c., and it was clear, that the anti-war movement. had wind in its sails and; it was, a vital requirement for the people of this country to stand up and be involved in the political

And by, October 25th 2003, six months after the, fall of Baghdad we had a demonstration of. 100,000 people back. in Washington D.C., and it was clear that the anti-war movement had. wind in its sails and it was a vital requirement for the people of this country to stand up and be involved in. the political,

and by october 25th, 2003, six months after the fall of baghdad, we had a demonstration of 100,000 people back in washington, d.c., and it was clear that the anti-war movement had wind in its sails and it was a vital requirement for the people of this country to stand up and be involved in the political process.

Becker says attendance and demonstrations has been strong lately. Last fall, they organized a march on Washington, D.C. and they estimate that 100,000 people were there. Becker and nearly 200 others were arrested, but to what end?

becker says attendance and demonstrations has been strong lately last fall they organized a march on washington d.c and they estimate that 100,000 people were there becker and. nearly. 200 others were, arrested but to what

Becker says attendance and demonstrations has been strong lately Last fall they, organized a march on Washington D.C and they estimate that 100,000 people were, there Becker and nearly 200 others were arrested, but to. what

becker says attendance and demonstrations has been strong lately. last fall, they organized a march on washington, d.c. and they estimate that 100,000 people were there. becker and nearly 200 others were arrested, but to what end?

Evaluating the success or failure of an anti-war movement is tricky because we have to say, well, what would be occurring if the anti-war movement were not here?

evaluating the success or failure. of an anti-war movement is tricky because we have to say well what would be occurring, if the anti-war movement were not

Evaluating, the success or failure of an anti-war movement. is, tricky because we have to say well what would be occurring if the anti-war movement were not,

evaluating the success or failure of an anti-war movement is tricky because we have to say, well, what would be occurring if the anti-war movement were not here?

Political science professor Scott Sigmund Gartner studies social movements at the University of California at Davis.

political science professor scott sigmund gartner studies social movements at the university of california at

Political science professor Scott Sigmund Gartner, studies social movements at the University. of California at

political science professor scott sigmund gartner studies social movements at the university of california at davis.

If you say, has the anti-war movement been able to get the United States out of Iraq, clearly the anti-war movement has not been successful. If you're saying has the anti-war movement been facilitating the movement largely through America against the conflict, there I think it's more complex.

if you say has the anti-war movement been able to get the united states out; of iraq clearly the anti-war movement has; not been successful, if you're saying, has the anti-war movement been facilitating. the movement largely through america against the conflict there i think it's more

If you say has the anti-war movement been able. to get the United States out of Iraq clearly the anti-war movement has. not been successful If you're saying has the anti-war movement been facilitating the movement largely through America against the conflict there I think it's more

if you say, has the anti-war movement been able to get the united states out of iraq, clearly the anti-war movement has not been successful. if you're saying has the anti-war movement been facilitating the movement largely through america against the conflict, there i think it's more complex.

Gartner says today's peace movement has some factors working against it, including what he calls a lack of leadership. There's just no modern day equivalent of Abbie Hoffman or Jane Fonda, he says. And that may be due to the perception that during the Vietnam era many anti-war Americans were also anti-soldier.

gartner says today's peace movement has some factors working against it including what he calls a lack of leadership there's just; no modern day equivalent of abbie hoffman or jane fonda he says and that may be due to the, perception that during the vietnam era many anti-war americans were also

Gartner says today's peace, movement has some factors working against it including, what he calls a lack, of leadership There's just no modern day equivalent of Abbie Hoffman or Jane Fonda he says And that may be due to the perception that during the Vietnam era many, anti-war, Americans were also

gartner says today's peace movement has some factors working against it, including what he calls a lack of leadership. there's just no modern day equivalent of abbie hoffman or jane fonda, he says. and that may be due to the perception that during the vietnam era many anti-war americans were also anti-soldier.

Today, Gartner says, most people make a point of expressing support for the troops even if they oppose the war.

today gartner says most people make a, point of expressing support for. the troops. even if, they oppose the

Today Gartner says most people make, a point of expressing support. for the troops even if they, oppose the

today, gartner says, most people make a point of expressing support for the troops even if they oppose the war.

You have to have a set of credentials that allows you to speak in a way that's anti-war without seemingly being anti-soldier. Cindy Sheehan, who's son Casey died in Iraq, clearly has that set of credentials. John Murtha, who's got purple hearts from Vietnam and had been visiting wounded constituents at Walter Reed Hospital, also clearly has that set of credentials. But a lot of Americans don't have those set of credentials, and as a result I think they feet hemmed in and unable to speak this subtle message of being against the war but in favor of the troops.

you have to have a set of credentials that allows you to speak in a way that's, anti-war without seemingly being anti-soldier cindy sheehan who's, son casey died in iraq clearly; has that set of credentials john murtha who's got, purple hearts from. vietnam and had been; visiting wounded constituents at walter reed hospital also clearly has, that set of credentials but a lot of americans don't have those set of credentials and as a result i think. they feet. hemmed in and unable; to speak this subtle message of being against the war but in, favor of the

You have, to have a. set of credentials that allows you to speak in a way. that's. anti-war without seemingly being anti-soldier Cindy Sheehan who's son Casey died in Iraq clearly has, that set, of credentials John Murtha who's. got purple hearts from. Vietnam and had been visiting wounded constituents at Walter. Reed Hospital also clearly has. that set, of credentials But a lot of Americans don't have those set of credentials and as a result, I think. they feet. hemmed in and unable to speak this subtle message of being against the, war but in favor of the

you have to have a set of credentials that allows you to speak in a way that's anti-war without seemingly being anti-soldier. cindy sheehan, who's son casey died in iraq, clearly has that set of credentials. john murtha, who's got purple hearts from vietnam and had been visiting wounded constituents at walter reed hospital, also clearly has that set of credentials. but a lot of americans don't have those set of credentials, and as a result i think they feet hemmed in and unable to speak this subtle message of being against the war but in favor of the troops.

But there is a new group of anti-war protestors who do have those credentials. We'll hear about them in just a few minutes when DAY TO DAY continues.

but, there is a new group of anti-war protestors who do, have those credentials we'll hear about. them in just a few minutes when day to day

But there is a new group of, anti-war protestors who do have those credentials We'll hear about; them in just a few minutes. when, DAY TO DAY,

but there is a new group of anti-war protestors who do have those credentials. we'll hear about them in just a few minutes when day to day continues.